Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety
the only Doctor Who podcast with a hat so big that not even our
closest friends can recognise us.
I'm Nathan.
I'm Todd.
I'm Adrian, and I'm a long-shanked rogue with a mighty nose and a
thingy for Errol Flynn for this one.
Well, it's a bright and sunny autumn in Nottingham and wafting
gently on the breeze is the smell of burning peasant, but soon a
quintessentially British hero will be along to overthrow the
villain and save the day, or maybe even 2 of them.
It's robot of Sherwood.
So, Todd, have you had an experience with this episode?
I always have an experience with this episode, Nathan.
I have a good experience with this episode.
I've always loved this episode.
Always.
Right from the day one.
You weren't angry about the gold arrow.
A lot of anger about the gold arrow out there, I think.
Okay, that was the one thing that I probably didn't like, but I
accept it now, but I really loved this after last week's episode
into the Dalek, which I find really harsh and quite humourless.
And here, for the 1st time, actually marry the humour with the
grumpiness of the Capaldi doctor and his annoyance at humans who
don't understand his plans, you know, and what he's doing.
And in deep breath, there's humour, in isolation from the
grumpiness, but not really together.
Whereas here it's a marriage.
And I really just love it from the beginning.
Actually, I think it's the scene where he where Capaldi is going
around the merry men and doing his whole analysis.
That's where I just went, you've nailed it. is where I want this
to go.
That's actually stolen from the moon base, isn't it?
Doesn't Troughton do that?
He goes around sort of testing people's clothing and chopping bits
off their very much does.
He very much does, as does Alan Ladd Sr. in the original 1938
edition of Robot. of Sherwood, starring Errol Flynn, and Basil
Rathbone, and Olivia de Haviland, and that corn gold score.
This is the 1st time, I know we're jumping around, but hey, it's
the podcast.
It's really, you know, did everyone come to find Murraygold a
little bit, oh, you're still here.
But he really knows his musicology in music history, and there
isn't a composer who doesn't love corn gold, and he just, he does
a few little revs.
Oh, I love you for this, including that scene where the doctor and
Robin meet each other on the log is absolutely shot for shot
almost shot for shot, the same scene in 1938's Robin Hood and
beautifully done.
And the spoon, a lovely pot to Sylvester McCoy, he's not
forgotten.
And Michael Curtiz is beautiful.
I just remember the director.
Michael Cortiz is beautiful, beautiful, Errol Flynn discovery.
He had a very big talent.
I think that's what he was going to say in this.
He said ego, I think.
But yes, he was probably intending to say.
Syphilitic history.
Yes, well, yes.
Tag.
There's the episode time.
He went to Scott's.
Did you know that?
Errol Flynn.
But yeah, he did actually.
Yeah, he did.
He grew up in Tasmania?
No, he was fishing down there.
He was a posh boy who didn't really need to work and then he just
like ladies.
Unlike this podcast.
Come on.
Do you remember your 1st experience of watching this, Adrian?
I did not appreciate this episode nearly as much the 1st time
around.
I enjoyed it, but I think it was completely shackled by the weight
of expectations about who is this new doctor, what can this new
doctor do?
What is the dynamic between this doctor and that companion?
Whereas I think this time around, I watched it thinking, it's
actually just a really fun episode.
In a Star Trek world, it would be a holiday episode.
Um, and because it doesn't have um, a huge complexities to the
storyline.
It's actually just really fun and good at what it does.
Yeah, I think that's right.
Star Trek actually does do a Robin Hood episode, but it's not a
holiday one.
It's Q, isn't it?
It's Cupid where Q makes, I think, makes Picard Robin and Vash
Mate Marian.
I actually just watched that this year and it's just it's really
good fun, but it's not as good as this.
No, it's not as good as this.
That's right.
I think I think for a particular type of fan who wants Doctor Who
to take place in a sort of sensible, consistent world, this is not
going to be fun because it really makes no attempt to not be the
doctor turns up in the story of Robin Hood.
And it explicitly says that a bunch of times.
And so there's a very sort of paper thin idea that he's only ever
remembered as a legend, but he's a real person, but, you know, he's
as real as the doctor, as he says.
Well, I just love the fact in the beginning, like, you know, Clara
wants to meet Robin Hood and Capaldi is so grumpy about it.
There's no such thing and, you know, and then they come out of the
TARDIS.
He says it's interesting as Robin Hood and there's an arrow and
then Robin's winks and, you know.
Oh, I just love Robin.
I just love it.
And the party looks so appalled. and from that moment I'm just so
into it.
It's just, I just have a joy for this episode.
And, well, you know, Richard's mentioned the whole jewel on the on
the log over the water.
It's great, isn't it?
Is that originally him and Little John?
Robert and Little?
It's Alan H.
Sr.
Alan Hale Jr. was the skipper on Gilligan's Island.
And they look exactly the same.
It's 1938 once 1965.
But you cannot tell the difference.
He was also the original bear.
As in a calendar bearer, as in, it's a whole queer history of Alan
Hayle, Senior, and then junior on, you know, catalogues.
No, you couldn't hire him on him.
But anyway, he was he was one of the original pin-ups for that
community.
And it's a beautifully shot thing.
And yes, that is the scene on the log and he falls in and then the
other one comes up from underneath and pushes Alan Howell comes in
from underneath him.
It's almost the same shop, but then to do it with a spoon, it's
just so good.
It's adorably daft. isn't it?
I actually think the way that they sell it too is when in the
opening scene he's in the TARDIS and that spoon just comes into
shot and Capoldi licks it because he's been eating ice cream or
something and we haven't seen that and then he pockets it.
I think that's really great.
And I also think what's great is that that scene gets reenacted
with the Sheriff of Nottingham over the Big Vaz of molten gold.
And I think they look at each other, don't they?
I think Capaldi kind of nods approvingly at Robin stealing his
moves.
You know what that original scene was, don't you?
Yeah.
Cut.
Yes.
Pardon the pun.
So it was a beheading scene. although they didn't use guillotines
they used axes, but it was written, said, I don't know, might just
be the note, says Guillotine, but yes, Ben Miller was going to be
decapitated.
But then there was, of course, the Islamic setting of 2
journalists.
I remember this really well.
So there was, it was, yeah, so it was a British journalist, I
think, who was beheaded by Islamic extremists and the video as
sometimes happened, went up.
And so the week before they announced, So I think Ben Miller's
character, the sheriff of Nottingham, was killed by, you know, I
think just a sword chopped his head off.
And I think we're prepared for that by the line because he says
he's a new type of man, half engine, half human.
And that doesn't go anywhere, and the reason that line doesn't go
anywhere is the beheading got cut.
Right.
Yes.
Boom.
Block.
It doesn't affect the story, I don't think, at all.
No, I like that there's a bit of mystery to the Ben Miller
character.
How good is Ben Miller?
He's also Miller from Armstrong and Miller.
He is Armstrong.
With Alan Armstrong, who is in Dr. Widow and the Wardrobe, and he
was also in Primeval.
Is he on, uh, would I lie to you or something?
Is it here?
He does a lot of those radio things I know from that.
But he's one of those Oxbridge magnifiosi who just really can do
anything and he's polyglot, polymath, all the rest of it.
Quite annoying enough.
Was he coming off death in paradise?
Didn't you do the 1st 2 series of that?
And then, oh, okay.
Leave that.
I thought it was quite soon after that.
I could be misremembering things, but I do know that he was doing
that around this time or just finished it.
I remember Paul Cornell wrote an episode of Primeval, and I just
remember that he had, I think Ben Miller wandering around the base
with a machine gun being hunted by dinosaurs and I just remember
thinking, that's why we have television so that we can see that
kind of thing.
But I love it.
I love that he can do anything but he's chosen to do this.
He's really good in it too.
And he's a very agreeable with deciding to chew the scenery when
you absolutely need to lean in to the world in the world.
He is really great.
That scene.
That scene where it's like 1st Nottingham, then Lincoln.
Derby.
Worksop.
So great.
So terrific.
Yeah, he was the 1st DI, wasn't he?
I thought in in Death in Paradise.
He's a physicist.
He's a bloody physicist, but he didn't finish his PhD because he
met Alexander Armstrong and they just did what physicists do and
fell mightily in love over their sub-equations and, you know, But
yeah, look, I'm surprised he does cranky face really well.
He doesn't overdo it.
He's not the Alan Cummings of this season, is he?
No, no.
It's actually really marvellous, that scene.
The very 1st scene that introduces him and then introduces Mr
Quail and Mr. Quail's ward, whose identity is revealed at the end
of the episode, and he doesn't overplay it there.
And in fact, it's that, you know, you'll live to regret this
always seemed to me to be a sort of rather crappy threat because
you know, at least you live, I guess.
But then he goes, you won't live to regret this.
It just sort of stabs him, which is terrific.
No, it's very good.
You mentioned Master Crow's ward, Marion.
I think it's the one thing in the episode where I would have liked
looking back at it now to have beefed her roll up a bit and you
actually see her talking to the doctor when she meets the doctor
later on and have a bit more there so that the doctor makes it
clear who she is and just involve her a little bit more in the
story.
She seems to be sidelined in the in the B plot that, you know, yes
at the end, the doctor's going to give Robin a surprise by
revealing Marion standing behind the Tartar or whatever happens to
be.
Yeah.
But I would have liked having watched it again.
It's the one thing that seems to, I think, suffering here.
Marion's role needs to be a bit more substantial, I think.
Yeah, there's no payoff there because we haven't actually, it
hasn't sort of earned like that storyline.
Yeah, I think they make an attempt, don't they, where she is there
upset over the older man who can't work.
But I have to confess that I found myself wondering whether she
was the same person, you know, like, and I think part of the
problem is that she's much more well known in the UK than she is
here.
So I think she would have been more readily identifiable to the
audience.
We've already got our Marion. in Clara.
Doesn't Clara look stunning in her marrying outfit and how excited
she is to see Robin and just the one.
No more in there.
But yeah, you know, seeing her just involved with that and just
her interactions with the doctor in this episode are really quite
good.
Like, I mean, that sounds like a terrible thing to say, but I
think last episode, they're just so harsh and not nice.
Whereas here they seem to be getting along a lot better, even
though she gets annoyed, obviously, at the bickering between Robin
and the doctor, which I just find hilarious.
And, you know, she takes control.
She's with the sheriff, but I just think this is where I find it's
really important that a companion and doctor need to have a good
dynamic, and this is the 1st time, I think, in the Capaldi era
that I really feel like it's beginning to work.
Like this is a better, much better balance.
So they're kind of oppositional in deep breath, in a way that I
think is funny.
Like, I think that that, the scene in the restaurant where she
meets him and speaks to him properly for the 1st time, I think, is
brilliantly written.
And then there's the scene where he kind of disappears and looks
like he's abandoned her.
And then last week, I actually liked the dynamic last week because
I thought that it was, it was funny, like the dialogue was
properly funny, but it was a little bit, like I can understand
people not liking it.
And so this is the 1st time where it is.
Maybe it is a bit of a relief.
Oh, I just think the whole thing is delightful in this episode.
It feels like the whole dynamic is just light and playful.
And, you know, I was watching that prison scene thinking, it does
go on for a bit too long.
But I don't mind because again, the bickering between the boys and
her then leaping in to save the day or break them up.
It's actually just really fun to watch.
It's that very Moffat thing about men being stupid.
I mean, I know this is this is from our gators, but, you know, men
are stupid.
So Clara is there to sort of adjudicate between these 2 stupid
man.
I'd like to ask, how much of this is Gatus and how much is
Moffat?
Because the stings feel very Moffat, especially Capaldi's lines.
But then we also know Gators and Moffat were working together on
Sherlocks.
They definitely know each other's stings.
I think that's right.
I mean, I can't believe that that entire scene, which is so
moffity in its concerns.
I can't believe that Moffat's just written that and he's been
giving himself co-writing credits all the way through the season
or it will be, because he's writing the Danny Clara romance.
So he doesn't give himself a co-writing credit here.
I think that I think nor should he be.
No, yeah.
Yeah, but I think that I think that Datis just knows him very well
that they do work well together.
Is this Mark Godis's best script for Doctor Who?
He wrote Crimson Horror, which I think is probably his best script
but I really like this one.
And I also like the I swear one in season...
I really like that too.
Empress of Mars.
So it's a solid effort from him.
That scene.
Come on.
It's laughing time.
That's so good.
And their plans, you know, and Clara's going, oh, does it involve
a sonic screwdriver?
I think he soared himself and all that sort of stuff. just
hilarious.
It's so funny I think I agree with Adrian though, that that scene
probably goes on a little bit too long.
And I think it does make the doctor a bit stupider than I really
want him to be.
It's not where we end up going with the character.
It's an early episode.
It's just his trigger and he behaves.
We can see that the doctor is still an adolescent and maybe a new
soul even though he's an old man. and that his temperament.
I actually see it as a mellowing of the 1st 2 episodes of this
character.
And he's now, you can see him in the school playground.
It's such a lovely dynamic.
Everyone says, every critic says, just reading through some of the
old reviews in the press at the times, that there seems to be a
common threat.
Gatus doesn't get enough time.
So his characters require richness and exploration.
I'm sorry, they are rich and they require exploration.
We're not served like that again, because Tottenham, one Tottenham
my favourite episodes, of course, is victory of the Daleks.
Why do you just like riding me up?
I really love that story.
Be yourself.
But again, there are characters in that that definitely needed
development.
The girls in the war room.
I just wanted a whole episode of At a girl or, you know.
I think I think, though, that that's okay.
Like, I kind of like, like, this story is very simple, as you
pointed out, and I do think the resolution of the robots where
it's just show reflective surfaces at them and they'll fire
straight at them because they're stupid.
Like, that's incredibly simple, incredibly straightforward doesn't
require any sort of exposition or technobabble.
That's great.
And the fact that maybe you want more of the characters than you
get isn't such a bad thing.
The funny thing is, I think the 1st time I watched this, for some
reason, I kept comparing it to Battlefield.
In my brain, I just, I wanted it to be battlefield, actually.
But I think a point of difference for me was that with
battlefields, there is character exploration and you have these
lovely side characters where you go, you know what?
We don't see you for very long, but Ben Oranovich does make
something of them.
You don't quite get that.
And that's probably what I was missing the 1st time I watched this
whereas I think this time around, rewatched it and I just
appreciated it for what it was.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that's actually a good comparison, isn't it?
Because you've got Merlin and you've got Robin Hood and they're
both sort of classic figures from English mythology and so on.
But it's one of those things that in the classic series, you've
got time to explore characters when you've got 45 minutes.
You don't necessarily get that, so you get Robin, you get the
sheriff and everybody else gets a little bit of time, but not as
much as perhaps you want.
You're all about the hair, Todd.
Robin's wig.
Tom Rogers.
We need to talk about Tom Riley's hair.
Tom Riley's hair.
Tom Riley is fantastic.
I just love him.
I love him so much from the beginning to the end.
He's just a joy.
And there is a journey there with the doctor.
You know, they are so adversarial and but there's a big payoff at
the end with them talking about, you know, I'm just as real as you
are.
So there is some, there's a little bit of weight there at the end
which I really do appreciate.
But Tom Riley, I just think is gorgeous.
He's got such a wonderful chemistry with Clara and eventually once
the doctor and he escape and they begin to get on, you know, it
really picks up and I just think he sells the merry men and
everything like that and come on, the whole archery scene is just
totally ridiculous.
But just wonderful.
And again, a spin on Michael Cotese's scene with with Errol Flynn
and...
I mean, it's the story of Robin Hood, isn't it?
It's a trap.
She knows it's a trap where you know it's a trap.
They know it's a trap.
I love the reveal that Capaldi Cheats.
Like the doctor cheated by using homing arrows.
That's awesome.
All I want is.
And I thought, of course it's your Capaldi.
You can't see Matt Smith at all.
Yeah, there aren't many other doctors.
Well, Tom would have, but you know, he wouldn't have admitted it.
Do you know how he got this part, Tom Riley?
Just on 28 episodes of da Vinci's demons as Leonardo da Vinci.
And I'm just thinking what a fantastic spin to a finally, a little
segue.
I wanted one of Moffat's little moments of, you know, those 5
minute scenes where you go back exactly to the set straight after
San Martino.
Leonardo, I'm here.
I've signed all your pictures and you just have Tom Riley in the
da Vinci wig just kicking him out. destroying all the campuses.
Wow.
And he's in Centrinians.
Oh, okay.
So we own him.
He's in the late one with, of course, Carol Anne Ford because
she's in everything.
He is very pretty without the wig, I have to say.
I did spend some time browsing pictures on the internet for some
research.
Yeah, that's right.
Do you know the last film he did just while we're there?
Todd?
Adrian?
Do you know the last film he did?
It's called Ghostlight.
Oh, okay.
Spooky.
And he plays the Tonga Ingram and the Scottish King.
I have not seen it He plays John Hallam as live.
Correct.
Yeah.
In the voice.
He's doing her voice. doing the accent.
So one of the things that's happening early in this season is
there's an investigation of whether the doctor is a hero or not.
And we do it in quite different ways.
One of the things I think you notice as you watch the 1st part of
this season is all of the episodes address that in some way, but
they all do it from sort of vastly different angles.
And whether that's kind of a mess or whether that's interesting
I'm not quite sure.
It's probably both.
But here, I think, you know, the doctor's antipathy towards Robin
isn't just that he laughs.
It's that he's a hero and maybe it's that he's a hero that Clara
admires at a time where the doctor is questioning whether he's a
good person or not.
And for me, I think the best bit of that thread is the bit where
Robin is telling the story of an aristocrat who could no longer
tolerate hearing the cries of the poor, and then him saying, so
you know, he stole a TARDIS and left Gallifrey.
And I think that's so so good.
And there's a real attempt, isn't there, here to say that Doctor
Who is like Robin Hood, not just because he's a hero, but because
of his status as a long-running fictional character.
I found that so refreshing after David Tennant's God and Matt
Smith's fairy tale hero, where I think that kind of meta
exploration of, you know, what is the hero and what is Doctor Who
to us fans, got a bit twee for my liking.
Here, it's it's just lovely and it's almost like a little
throwaway line in a throwaway scene at the very end of the episode
where we're sort of asked to consider, you know, what are the
stories that we like to tell ourselves that inspire people in the
real world to do good things.
Yeah.
And then it's done.
Yeah, I think that's really good.
And I think they, you know, they anticipate it with that scene in
the ship, where you've got Patrick Troughton as Robin Hood.
And I think he's the 1st person to play Robin Hood on television.
I thought Richard Greer might have been.
Oh, okay.
Richard Green does in the in the late 50s.
Okay, it is very early though, I think.
He is also...
Well, you could be right, actually. to play St.
Paul on television, turns out. without the homophobia.
Yeah, a hero of another kind.
But I love that, but I do love that control room scene is the
doctor is still trying to prove that Robin is a fraud and
everything is a fraud. not letting go of that.
Yeah.
Until the end of that scene with obviously Robin rescuing Clara or
jumping out the window.
But I love that entire scene, you know, linking to the Promised
Land, seeing Patrick Troughton's picture.
It's just little nuggets of information that's linking this to
Doctor Who mythology this season and all of it.
I got such a massive visitation vibe from that scene.
I can see why Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And then to have, you know, the sheriff storm in and blow the door
in.
Doesn't he doesn't he storm in with the robots?
Yeah, yeah.
Does he really need to do that if he owns the ship?
Yeah, just open it.
Open the door.
Use your swipe card.
Just making a dramatic entrance.
And of course, then, you know, yes, it does.
And then and then the doctor gets knocked out and is taken
downstairs to Marion to sort out the robots downstairs.
I do, you know.
But this is, again, this thing that we talked about last time in a
Crimson horror, where we said that Mark Gatis knows the classic
series, so wow, and he knows what works in it.
And we're starting to get these pert we references now now that we
have Capaldi.
And so that line that you alluded to earlier on in your
introduction, Richard, about a long-shanked rascal with a mighty
nose from the time warrior.
I think next week.
Is it next week where we get the doctor waking up and saying the
brontosaurus is large placid and stupid, which is like from
episode one of robots?
Like Gatus knows this staff.
And so we get a real kind of time warrior vibe from it's it's like
Jenna has seen the time warrior and so she knows what's happened
to the sheriff of Nottingham and it's like the thing that's
happened to the sheriff of Nottingham is the thing that happened
to Iron Gron in the Time Warrior, but we don't get to see that
where we sort of join the story a bit later on.
I am grown up, my heart missed a beat just then.
I think that's really insightful, Nathan.
Because, like, I do get that vibe from the scene downstairs, like
you know, with the doctor making friends with Marion, and she
calls him the clever one, and then he's bantering with all the
people.
He's totally against bantering, but I just love that lot.
It's just so the 12th doctor.
It's just so huge.
I would have loved to see like that with pertly.
Yeah, yeah.
In the day, locked up with who...
Well, but Portley was too grand to probably be shackled down.
He ruffled his plumes.
Did anyone else have a moment?
Thanks for reminding me, Todd.
There's definitely Mark and Stephen are saying, what did we most
love?
That moment when the TARDIS appears in the forest and then that
angle of the doctor opening the door and I had a little moment
watching it again and I really was hoping he'd say right on target
for once.
Do you remember that?
Because that was a huge thing for me. just that lovely moment as a
little boy when the TARDIS appears and pert we pats the door and
for some reason that's just one of those iconic moments that is
the TARDIS and is the doctor and I really wanted him to do it.
But because again, I thought, oh, yes, yes, so there's all these
lovely moments back, I should also add, Nathan, as usual, is
correct.
Pat Troughton was the 1st BBC, right?
In 1953, only for 6 episodes, and Richard Green then did, I think
4 or 5 years from 55 to the end of the 50s.
FTE.
We're here to be your frontal lobe, so you don't. right.
Gosh, how do I know all this?
You just know stop.
But yeah, there were lots of other little moments for folk our age
and I'm hoping they were doing that to sow the seeds for young
people watching this now to really look back on that because
there's so much joy and fun and it's just very fast, and I forget
that audiences now are okay with watching things that quickly
whereas we were brought up to take 4 episodes to get to the same
point.
I think that there's really only one script where Gatus kind of
goes off and sort of out of his wheelhouse, and I think that
that's sleep no more, but otherwise he's, and it's not tried
exactly because I think he does a good job of pacing a 45 minute
episode.
And he doesn't feel like he's squeezing 4 episodes into that
time.
He kind of knows what he's doing as a TV writer, but he also knows
what's memorable because he remembers it. you know because he's
one of us, I think.
So, hey, just, I'm just thinking, so with all of those references
to Pertry and Trouton, do you think that their doctors would also
have retained that kind of antipathy towards Robin Hood that
Capaldi leans into so much?
Or is that a quirk of Capaldi?
I mean, I think that it's part of this thread about Capaldi not
believing in heroes.
And so he has to kind of conclude that Robin's a robot or that
Robin Robin's fake.
And Robin is fake, but he's fake in the same way that the doctor
is fake, that the doctor is in some ways a front or an attempt to
do the right thing.
And so there's some kind of self-hatred, I think, there, which I
don't think you would get with pertui or trout, and their doctors
just aren't introspective enough, I think, for that.
But I can see Trout in doubting the situation and doing that
entire merry men scene and going through, as you've said, Nathan
and, you know, examining hair and sandals and blood analysis and
oh, you've only got 6 months to that.
But that's hilarious.
That's the brutality that we had last week, but just a little bit
lighter, I think.
And that's the key to it, keeping it a bit lighter and a bit more
humourous and a bit more mellow actually works.
I think this is the ying to the yang, or the flip side of the coin
I find last week quite dark, and it goes on one side of the line
which I don't like, whereas this way it goes the other way, which
I actually like a lot more.
I guess I could see perch. been a bit annoyed with things.
Certainly season seven.
Like, I mean, I see Capaldi's journeys, the doctor very much like
John's journeys, the doctor.
Short hair to begin with.
Massive hair, hair of an idiot by the end.
And there's a middle ground, right?
And I think, well, this week, actually, I'm going to say that
Capaldi's hair is looking really good because this was in the 3rd
Block Bay film.
So it's actually longer than the 1st 2 stories.
So, straight away, bit longer hair, bit mellower.
Yeah, still can be crotchety and all that sort of thing, but it's
working for me.
And I see that over the next few episodes.
Like, I mean, obviously I've watched the whole season and I see it
in, listen, I see it definitely in time host.
I enjoy the caretaker.
Yeah, the PE thing you will talk about, but there's Capaldi is
very funny in that.
And even like, you know, we'll get past Kill the Moon, but the
Mummy on the Orient Express flatline and Darrow's saying the
Forest of the Night.
He is actually really quite funny through this entire season and
there's these, Stephen keeps putting back the, you know, am I a
good man in these dark sort of shades at certain points, which we
all sort of remember and I remember from their time.
Yes, he might be struggling with being a hero, but I actually
think what people see in season 9 is actually here in season 8 and
a lot sooner, we just choose to remember the darker things.
It's funny, isn't it?
The normal comparison is with Colin, who starts off unlikeable and
ends up cuddly over just 2 years.
But Pertwee is actually maybe a better comparison.
And you also get the late era change of companion that Pertui
has.
Pertuis is super obnoxious in series seven.
It's interesting.
I think you're onto it.
I also, if you compare it to Kong quite a lot because you actually
see his performance in the 1st 3 or 4 stories, right?
And then suddenly after the 2 doctors, there's a change in the 2nd
half of the season.
And then there's the whole cuddly thing in season 23 for the most
part.
So I do see those 3 stages in his doctor as well.
But I think because John goes on longer.
We've discussed it way back when. and I mention it.
But here I just think that in this episode, I actually see right
here is the Capaldi doctor that we see in series 10 is there
right?
But he's just got to come to the realisation himself that he's
there.
And that happens.
I'm getting hit of myself much later in the season, but it's
through there.
And I think it's an important observation.
I just really enjoy this, these run of episodes that are coming
up.
And, you know, seeing Peter work with Jenna so well here, his
sparring with Robin and go back to Ben Miller.
Let's...
Yeah, yeah.
The scene with Jenna again and Clarke...
Yeah.
His banter with the doctor, you know, or be a bit briefer, but the
doctor actually, you know, saying that Robin's a legend, getting
to that point, another wonderful thing.
There's so much to like in this, you know, from Capaldi and from
the guest stars.
Sorry, I've just sort of done a bit of a, that's all right.
Capaldi's your favourite new series doctor, isn't he?
And it was at this point.
It was in this episode that I went, he could outdo Matt Smith
right?
And that, this was this episode, which, I don't know, says
something.
That's why enjoy it so much.
They're a whole bunch of sort of tonal shifts, this character, and
I think we see this quite a lot in this season where he's just
trying to sort of lay the groundwork for his doctor's
personality.
And on the one hand, you see that sort of archly dismissive
cynical side, which absolutely I can sort of correlate back to
Collins, doctor, and a bit of poetry as well.
But then there's that also loveably cantankerous side.
And I agree with you 100% that that loveably cantankerous side.
We can already see in this episode.
Because I was watching ahead, like, as well.
Yeah.
In time heist, it's so there.
Yeah, you know?
And in the caretaker, it's so there, I suddenly was seeing things
they hadn't seen for the 1st time through.
I've you can probably gather that I've really enjoyed watching
this series.
I think it's a really good series.
I am a big fan.
But I actually like him being obnoxious because it's really
funny.
And there is less of it this episode.
The comedy is much more straightforward, but, you know, Moffat's
cast, someone, like Moffat's cast, Malcolm Tucker from The Thick
of it, who is incredibly funny.
He knows that he can do comedy.
And Moffatt is a sitcom writer.
He can do comedy.
And I think that that's something that he leans into even more
than he does with Matt Smith.
But, I mean, that whole thing about him not letting go of this
idea that Robin is a robot, and absolutely, it can't be trusted
because he's a hero is ridiculous, but it's also so wonderfully
petty.
Yes, wonderfully petty. great.
So just a question to Adrian. typical of this doctor for you?
I don't know if it's his baseline, but it's something that I feel
like he comes sort of back to throughout.
Like, it's not a consistent character quirk, but it's something
that pops up every now and then.
Is it the base of this doctor?
watching it for the 1st time and again?
That's to you and Todd.
Is that where he's coming from, is you like?
Because I had never thought about the pert we parallel other than
looking at all of Capaldi's gorgeous little drawings as a 13-year
old boy that he sent to the production album and everything and
it's always the pert we stuff.
So yeah, maybe.
Maybe.
Perby doesn't start off charming unless you're a Delphon.
Yeah.
I just love your expression Adrian.
Wonderfully petty.
That is something that he hangs on to at so many times throughout
this era.
Who is your new series favourite doctor?
Like, do you have one or?
It's funny because I think at the time I thought Matt Smith, and I
think in retrospect, Capaldi.
Matt Smith's my favourite, but I am willing for him to be
dethroned and it could because I do think Kapoli is really great.
The one thing that hampers Peter Cavodi is the fact that I think
that the number of the stories aren't quite as Matt's got some
stories that are, I think, on average, probably better.
But I'm thinking about series nine.
So it's going to be interesting to see what I think of that when
it comes to the end.
Yeah.
So maybe it's because Moffatt's fresher with Matt.
I don't know.
Maybe that's not the case.
But I, yeah, I didn't think Matt was going to be dethroned when I
came into this era.
And then it's a funny thing, though, because I think there are so
many great stories in Matt Smith's era, but I think because I've
watched them so many times.
The overwhelming sort of feeling for me now is they're so kind of
ornate and rococo, there's sorts of season-long narratives that I
kind of just want to hang with these sort of one-off episodes
that's compelled these 1st season and it's refreshing for me.
I think that he reacts against series 6 in series 7.
So series 6 has the ornate complex plot arc and series 7 has 2
very light plot arcs.
But I think series 7 has some sort of boring episodes in it, and
I'm not so sure about the back half of it.
Whereas here, I think he resets.
And I think what's happening is that having Capaldi along gives
him the chance to reevaluate. like now what's the doctor going to
be like?
And it's the sort of thought that you don't really get in the
classic series because I think in the classic series, you just
rely on the actor to come along and give the sort of performance
that you're going to get from that actor and that informs it.
And I think maybe Sylvester McCoy has a little bit more thought
going into his character at the time.
But overwhelmingly, it's just, oh, I met this guy at a wedding
reception and he was really funny and now he's going to be the
doctor and he's going to dress like me or whatever.
Here I think Moffatt gets to reset and go, all right, well, what's
the doctor like now?
And I also think, and I've said this before, He doesn't want to
embarrass himself in front of Peter Capaldi.
But there's a lot going on in this season.
There's the whole Danny Clara comedy romance with the doctor being
set up to be her space dad.
You've got the whole missy element.
You've got the whole doctor questioning, is your hero.
There's actually more than I ever realised before.
I thought it was just, oh, Missy and the doctor being crabby and a
bit of a romance for Clara, but I think there's, although not a
focus in this episode per se, you still got links to it.
And I think it, you know, there's a lot more in this series 8, then
I realised even.
It's that thing where Moffatt's arcs tend to be about the
characters.
And so here the big arc, I think, in series 8 is the Danny Clara
romance.
Which is not really evident in this episode because she's going to
be a bit more in love with Robert this week.
And it'll ramp up, obviously, next week.
Coming back to sort of the conclusion of the episode.
I think when the doctor says that he's leaving a present for
Robin.
It actually shows that he actually does care, right?
And I think one of the biggest complaints is that, you know, well
from last week, she's my carer.
She cares so I don't have to.
But he actually, underneath it all does.
And you're going to see that a number of times in the episodes
coming up that he actually, although he may appear to be harsh
he's doing it for a reason to save her and hopefully others, but
unsure that he's going to be able to do it.
But here, with Robin, despite all that's happened, here is Marion
she has found you and he's the conduit for that, you know, and it
shows a lighter side than perhaps what people or the general
public or whoever perceived or even myself at that time.
Why does Robin shoot a big arrow up into the air after he hugs
up?
Am I reading too much into that?
Are we on foot again?
Not at all.
Haven't they just done it a few scenes ago with that the statue of
Nemesis, sorry, the arrow of the arrow into the spaceship and just
by hitting the outside of the spaceship is suddenly on the
target.
And there's a target?
that's awesome.
But just by that, then they can reach maximum power or whatever it
happens to be.
Explode safely in space or something.
He's excited.
It's like when people jump into me.
It is. the guns.
He got the arrow.
Yes.
He's very excited.
You know, the poor peasant or animal creature that lands on?
Well, you know?
People did hate that ending and people did say that it wasn't
possible.
And you just kind of think, come on, like it doesn't matter.
In this context, it doesn't really matter.
If you have had an episode where you're talking about Errol
Flynn's enormous ego, you're talking about a golden arrow and that
archery competition, that the prison wrangling between the two.
Isn't this the only conclusion that you could have for an episode
that's full of fallocentric energy?
Lego technic castle spaceships at, um, and I was really hoping.
It really is, isn't it?
I was hoping for an Androids of Tara moment, but it's carefully.
Carehilly Castle, which is made of cream cheese, I believe
according to the brand name.
We've seen it before, haven't we?
Adrian?
Ker Philly Castle, Todd?
It's been in other episodes anyway.
But more recent series, not the traditional series.
It does look very good.
Like, I think that that's the other thing.
It looks pretty great.
And this is an episode directed by Paul Murphy who just does this
and the caretaker.
He's very good.
I feel.
I think it's that thing too, where it's the opposite of Alan
Bromley in the Time Warrior, where he can't do any special effects
and everything has fixed in the special edition DVT release.
Tennis ball and a bit of tint.
That's right.
Whereas I think that this works really well and the big shots of
inside the castle and the sort of crowds and stuff.
You know, they don't look like they would in a feature film, but
they look pretty good for TV.
They look amazing.
And let's just, because we've done this before, but Alan Bromley's
character work and his work with the cast, especially with Iron
Grown and his and his little mate, blood.
Very good.
Blood, blood.
I just superb.
Just superb.
So is there parallel here with like Alan of Dale?
Don't they tell him to stop singing or something?
Give it up.
Oh, can we mention, again, this is the frustrating thing for me
with Gurtis.
The guest cast is superb.
The casting is brilliant.
There isn't one person I would criticise and we often do, don't we
Todd?
Oh, that was a rush.
That was a rush job.
But no, there's no one here that the merry men are perfect.
I would have been very happy with another episode just seeing the
characters fleshed out.
Yeah.
They are better than they need to be.
I think.
Yeah, given how little I get to do.
They seem to get the brief.
Yeah, yeah, yes, yes.
No, you're quite right.
Like, I mean, if the merry men and Marion, and even seeing the
sheriff become the sheriff, like, a la time warrior, you could
have expanded everything to 2 episodes if you wanted to, but that
could have ended up like that horrendous dialect story back in
that.
We really liked. which you really like, but I don't.
I seem to recall the time, Todd's saying, you might well have
convinced me of it.
It makes me a lot more fun than I thought.
We had a Todd experience.
I've just remembered Carefully Castle is also used for shots in
Vampire and Venice, and another one of Todd and my favourites
Nightmare in Silver.
Oh, wow.
That's why we blocked it out.
Well, actually, the castle's used okay.
Yeah.
I mean, the castle in this looks really great.
And you get long shots of it and the spaceship, you know, coming
up out of it. it's all really good I was getting sort of
Thunderbirds vibes from the start.
Oh stop.
No, I was just beating hot.
It is, yeah.
It's very, very thunder, but.
But actually, we haven't had a rocket come out of a castle before
in Doctor Who, have we?
We must have done.
We must have thought I cannot remember.
Doesn't it blow up?
doesn't it blow up?
We see them blow up a lot, but I don't see a spaceship come out of
it.
Doesn't the space...
Isn't there a rocket coming out?
No, no, no, no, wait, but that's not a castle.
No, no, come on the Time Warrior.
It doesn't, no, it doesn't lynx's spaceship launch from inside.
We just don't see it.
Well, we can't afford that.
But it does.
Explode the thing.
Yeah.
So there you go. to do a proper version.
Thank you.
Another nod to ride on target. to the time worrying.
My goodness.
There's so many of them.
Yeah, well, I think because the time warrior is Bob Holmes and
because Bob Holmes didn't want to do any historical research at
all.
So he just decided he would set it in sort of, you know, merry
England in the mediaeval period, which is where Robin Hood lives, I
guess, in a sort of fictional past.
So he's just hauling that up because he knows it works.
Gatus knows what stuff works from his knowledge of the classic
series.
It's really surprising that it's taken this long to get a Robin
Hood story.
I suppose the Tom Mario is a resort.
Yeah, yeah, you've got Howley Archer.
Oh, yes, Boba Fett before he regenerated.
We've got to Demo era, Morrison.
We've got June Brown.
You've got June Brown, having a fag, castle battlements. having a
sniff at whatever he's making with his wolf weeds over there.
She was up for whatever little potent morsels, but we was brewing
up, you could tell.
She know, I'll put that in me roll up and have a drag on that
little.
God, I love time where I. What are we doing today?
Which story is this?
Well, I love this, Richard, and I'm giving it 8.5 out of 10.
And so for a throwaway episode, that's pretty good for me.
Like, I mean, most sort of fluffy episodes, if they get an 8 solid
but I really just love it.
And sounds like Adrian, you do too.
Yeah, I think I'll give it Nate as well.
I think everything is just lovely.
There's nothing that's missing that you resent, that you regret
about this episode.
It's just fun.
I'm surprised watching it now 3 times.
So I usually just watch them once and then, now, again, how much
fun it was, how good the throwaway lines are and how old I am
because I'm not used to watching at this pace.
I actually have to watch them again to catch the lines.
So I can see why this is now a proper family drama again and kids
are so attuned to this speed of viewing and their parents would be
my age or younger.
They're sort of, you know, catching it up on the 2nd and 3rd
viewing.
This really improves like a fine wine with subsequent viewing.
And Tom Riley is just an absolute joy and really, and in fact, he
and Jenna, you can really see whenever there's someone in the cast
and the guest cast at that level, Jenna shines, just perfect, both
of them.
Well, new listener, that's all we have time for this week.
We'll be back next week to find out how Clara and Danny's first
date turns out in listen.
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts
and you can keep up with us on our website, FlightthroughEntirety
com, where you'll find links to our accounts on Facebook, Twitter
and Mastodon, as well as links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger
Jody Interterra, Maximum Power, and Untitled Star Trek project.
Until next time, it's probably time you considered shaving off
that goatee.
Thank you very much for listening and good night.
See you soon.
Take care.
Good then.
That was Flight through Entirety, starring Todd B. will be Nathan
Bottomley, Adrian Poon, and Richard Stone.
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.
This episode, Fallocentric Energy, was recorded on the 15th of
January 2023, and released on the 30th of April.
Those of you who are missing father of the podcast, Brendan Jones
will, of course, get to catch up with him later in the series, but
in the meantime, check him and his friend BJ out as they tackle
some independent games in the BJBJ game show.
There's a link in the show notes.
I think that's it.
Yep.
I think you're taking us out.
Hi, I think we're good.
I think I'm good.
I think we've got enough.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yep, we're good.
I have a question, but doesn't it?
Yeah, go on, ask me the question.
Adrian, are you at all an Avengers fan?
and you know what I mean when I say Avengers fan?
because you've heard the podcast that Brent, you're needed?
Yeah, yeah.
That's the only one.
You know that Stanley stole it. from the TV series because the
original Avengers series is 1960.
Right.
So it's that old.
Yeah, Stanley, because he thought, oh, it's never going to be
shown in America.
And he used that for his comic series.
Brendan talks about that very with great skill when whatever
episode, but she is the perfect M appeal.
And just watching this and her.
And it's not just the shape of the face.
And I actually think that she needs 3 mirrors.
We're talking about that next, and that is absolutely one of my
favourite life. consulting and accurate.
They both have a heart-shaped face, but I think they're actually
from the same part of England.
They might even have genetic material.
She is a perfect...
She looks like rig when she were young.
Those little moments, the little looks, the little side eye.
I just would have loved a series of the Avengers.
She would, she's too big now, but just at the time with she and I
don't know who I would have cast as steed.
That's probably a lot of...
Maybe Julian Wadham, someone we haven't seen before, but
necessarily Doctor Who, but just, oh, it would be so much fun set
in the 60s.
She's she's really got that fun it girl vibe.
Well, I don't know what the 60s version of the girl was, the mod
girl, I guess.
God, she's good.
She's not warm.
I think there's a lot of people who dislike her for that reason.
But Rick wasn't warm.
Yeah.
And was Liz Slad and Warm?
Yes, she was.
Yeah, she was.
True moments of war.
Well, because she's playing it a bit young.
She's doing the Katie trick of playing it slightly like a child
you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
In that 1st season. overplaying.
You know, the playing it slightly big, like a cartoon character.
She's a bit hyper real, I think. played it younger than she was?
didn't think that at the time.
Sometimes.
If you if you watch it, it's what Katie does it backwards.
Yeah, no, no, what I mean, what I mean is that she, she, not that
she's playing it like a, like a child, but there's a slightly
bigger child kids TV performance.
I know Katie definitely does. 11 as a person.
Well, no, I think generally, I think, that she generally... she
right?
And also a 70s way of working.
Yeah, yeah.
So it's time when she drops it where it's really kind of obvious
murder a cup of tea, which is her mind, apparently.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
She threw that in.
Oh, could murder a cup of tea.
Because she's got the same accent as...
Yeah, they're from the same pot.
It's JR.
Apparently she threw that in.
That wasn't Bob Holmes said.
Bob Holmes laughed.
During the reading.
Yeah, keep it.
Yeah.
Well, I think we're done.
Do you think we're done?
Yep.
Okay.