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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:35:32

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight for Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast set entirely underneath your bed.

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You really need to clean up under here.

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It's revolting.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Simon.

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And I'm Fiona.

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Well, the last time the doctor got bored in the TARDIS, he came up with the excellent plan of shaving his head, but this time he's gone looking for the invisible monster that's lurking behind you throughout your entire life.

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Only to find himself both ruining and saving Clara's date, as well as creating both Danny and himself.

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This is about to get a bit complicated, so listen.

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So I have actually been hanging out to find out the answer to this question, Fiona.

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Did you have the Todd experience watching this episode?

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I had a positive taught experience.

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So, um, not the, well, no, actually, no.

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I've forgotten which way round it works with tonic.

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It's usually that he hated it the 1st time round.

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No, I actually didn't hate it the 1st time round.

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I remember enjoying it the 1st time round, but I literally haven't watched it in years, so I was really sort of coming into it with nearly fresh eyes and I loved it.

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Like it wasn't perfect, but it's up there.

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It's one of those ones which I never really thought about again, and we're getting into the era of Doctor Who, where we were doing flights through entirety as well.

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Yeah.

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It just meant that we didn't do a lot of rewatching of new stuff or at least I didn't.

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Yeah, I think, like, the post-credits blooper for our time meddler episode has us talking about the missy reveal. just happened the day before.

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So, yeah, I mean, season eight, I think I can safely say I've only watched 3 times.

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Except for now rewatching it for the podcast is my 4th time.

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Yeah, that's my experience as well.

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A lot of these, virtually all of these I haven't seen since they were on.

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Well, not to mention to that one.

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You watch them when they're on, then you watch them when the Blu-ray comes out and then that goes on the shelf and then you never speak of it again.

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So I was really keen to see whether I still really loved it because I really loved it when I saw it 10 or so years ago.

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And I have to say it met exceeded even the expectations that I had.

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So yeah.

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I have always thought that having 45 minute episodes of Doctor Who means that you can do something other than just roughly hit the beats of a four-part Doctor Who story.

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You don't have to have an adventure every week and things like things like Love and Monsters and Boomtown that sort of break the format by not just having a Doctor Who adventure, I think are pretty great.

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And I think that's that's what Moffatt's doing here.

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This is much more like a short story than it is like a Doctor Who adventure.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I've sort of made that point before that I actually think when the new series does try to hit all the notes of a four-part story within a self-contained 45 minute episode.

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Most of the time, not all the time, but most of the time it sort of fails or it leaves you wanting more.

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It's just dissatisfying.

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Whereas this is a great example of, like the ones you mentioned, of writing an episode which is designed for the format that the show now is.

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It's a little vignette.

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It doesn't really talk about, I mean, yes, it sort of links a little bit with a Danny arc of the season, but broadly speaking, it is almost entirely self-contained.

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Yeah, I mean, we've been talking about that drink since episode two, haven't we?

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And now we finally see it.

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And so this is their 1st date.

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And the fact that that's kind of the environment within which all of this is happening, it's a little bit like time of the doctor, where Clara's having a Christmas while the doctor's off doing sort of crazy adventures.

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And here we have the same thing, basically, this is their date and why it goes wrong.

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And in the meantime, we're doing all of this very, very odd stuff, I think.

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Yeah, it's it's the right kind of timey whiminess.

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I think it's really, really cleverly done.

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Yeah, I agree with both of you so far.

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I think it's one of those.

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Well, I think it's one of those outsiders, thinking outside the box, um, episodes where it's just it, like you said, it's a story.

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It's not just formulaic.

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And you have that bit of the timey whiminess, but not enough that it's sort of, you like what the hell is going on kind of thing.

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Later on, don't ask me to fully explain the Danny Pink art because you can might need to explain that to me offline because it still fries my brain.

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I'm not entirely sure if it was properly resolved if, and if it ever did make sense, but um, yeah, I, I am confused.

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I admit to that.

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But I'd forgotten just how good Peter Capaldi is as well. and Jenna and just how well they both work together and bounce off each other and just how strong they are.

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There's definitely a lot of chemistry and they're both incredibly talented at their profession and I think Todd going harking back to Todd.

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He would definitely prove of Jenna's hair in this story.

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Yeah.

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Something I'm finding rewatching this 1st season of Capaldi is there's a lot more of a twinkle to him than I remember.

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Like, I remember him being really grumpy in his 1st season, and that's certainly there.

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But I got something totally new out of the 3 mirrors scene this time.

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Like, he's not being mean when he's asking about the 3 mirrors.

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He's genuinely confused.

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And there is some cut lines from the end of this scene where he's trying to persuade it to come on an adventure.

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And it sort of puts the, you've already taken your makeup line into context because after he says that and she refuses again, he says, you can come with me and have an adventure, you can sit here not having a date, which one is it?

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And she gets up and she says, I think underneath all this, you're trying to be nice.

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And I think from his perspective, he is because there's no nothing in these lines that couldn't be said by Matt Smith.

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He would just put a different spin on it.

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That's exactly, yeah. what I was thinking.

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And the same with the mirrors thing.

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You could absolutely put Matt Smith delivering those same lines and he would get away with that.

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And one of the things I found watching Capaldi was, I think he is a mesh of some of my favourite doctors, like there's a lot of Tom Baker in this story.

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There's definitely a lot of Matt Smith.

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And there's little elements of Sylvester at his best where he's just being a bit sort of manipulative and the, the, sort of the borderline edge of like, um, is this, this is just not nice.

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Yeah, so there's lots of, um, I was thinking like, you know, my other favourite doctor is, um, Peter Davidson.

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I'm thinking, could I see Peter Davidson in any of these things?

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I actually would have loved to have seen Peter Davidson written into a story that was a bit more off the beat like this.

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I could see him absolutely having that conversation with Tegan, like say, if it was Tegan coming back and she was doing something in her personal life, him just going like, like, this is not important.

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Just come with me.

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I could absolutely see them doing that, but not a lot of the other things.

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I just drink no.

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Yeah, so it just proves that saying something in a Scottish accent, suddenly makes it offensive.

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I'm just imagining now, with that, Davidson's doctor saying to Tegan, it's, well, it's all right.

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You haven't even done your hair, and she's got that big kind of rat's nest.

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She had...

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She's like, it doesn't just look like this.

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I spent hours doing that.

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I actually think the 3 mirrors line is so well done because it leads to the call back at the end of the episode.

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So when he sees the 3 mirrors.

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He goes, why can't you just turn your head?

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And that's a pretty funny line.

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Then we get Clara and Danny talking about Courtney and Courtney saying she can't concentrate on her work.

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Yeah, her face is too wide.

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And then later those 2 lines get combined in the perfect callback where Capaldi says her face is really wide.

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She needs 3 mirrors.

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It's so good.

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Yeah.

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And having, you know, someone who is well known in Britain for starring in a situation comedy, being written by a situation comedy writer who cut his teeth on romantic comedy means that this is absolutely the centre of what Moffatt is able to do.

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And this is the cheap episode.

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How many times does Moffat give himself an episode that's not, you know, the finale or the opener or whatever?

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This is like the beast below.

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It's like, what can I do in the middle of the series in a really cheap, otherwise unimportant episode?

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Moffatt did say in Doctor Who magazine that this, he assigned himself this episode to prove he was still a writer.

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Yeah, interesting.

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You know, give himself a series of limitations.

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And it was even more limited than his original script.

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Because in the original script, all the doctor's soliloquy at the beginning was actually in this library archive that he took Clara to later.

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And when he was redrafting the script, Douglas McKinnon said, well, if you want to save money, let's just put it in the Tartars.

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And the other cost-saving measure was they did like location recies for the barn.

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And after about a week, Michael Pickwode said, I've still got the barn in storage.

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Like, I've got the shed in the shed.

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Why didn't why didn't you ask?

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So it ends up being even cheaper than it was originally considered.

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But it just goes to show, you know, you can have those limitations of budget and time and whatnot, and they can come up with something so brilliant.

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If it's a matter of knowing how to best utilise those limitations.

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And I think it, I think it's just, it sets a standard right from that opening sequence, the pre-credit sequence, which is a monologue.

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You know you're going to be watching something, which is quite different from a normal episode and it's done so well.

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And it's not like you sort of gradually discover like 5 or 10 minutes in that, oh, this episode's going to be a bit of a weird one or a different one.

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You know that from the pre-credit sequence and it's just so brilliantly done.

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And it's the thing that Moffatt usually does, which is giving an in-story reason for the type of storytelling he's decided to do.

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So the fact, for instance, in a Christmas carol that the flashbacks to Catherine's childhood happen because the doctor has a time machine and he can go back there.

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Here, we have a monologue because the doctor has been on his own too long.

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He's going a little bit crazy.

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I mean, Clara says, how long have you been travelling on your own for, and he's theorising about why people talk aloud when there's no one else. there. so clever.

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One answer to that question is because they're doing the introductory monologue.

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But the other one is that there's some thing that accompanies you at all times and he wants to investigate it.

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Yeah.

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How did you actually find watching that introductory monologue?

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Because I actually found a little bit.

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I always felt a bit uncomfortable watching it.

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I just the way that, uh, I guess it's was, the delivery is very aggressive and sort of, Yeah, I was sort of always like, oh, I'm not sure if I like this doctor in this moment.

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And then the bit under the water with the fish, that sort of brought back a little bit of the comedy side of it, you know, like with the video.

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But the start, it was sort of like a bit.

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I'm not sure if I quite like this.

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It's just that little bit too intense, a bit aggressive, a bit unlikeable.

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But for the rest of the episode, I was absolutely on board.

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I didn't have any of those moments at all.

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No, I didn't feel that that it was too aggressive.

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I thought it was kind of direct.

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Like he really wants to know, he's trying to work it out.

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Why are things like this?

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I really love I really really love that sequence.

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I think that if this episode has flaws, and I do think it has some, I think they're almost all Douglas McKinnon's fault.

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And so I think that opening sequence is not as scary as it should be.

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And I think the sequence at night in the bass in the future, he just pulls out his big box of gels and, you know, there's that line about mood lighting, but in fact, everything's dramatically overlit and that needs to be nighttime, I think, according to the script.

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It's nighttime.

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It should be under lit.

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So I think there are some directorial choices that don't quite work and I do think that that we don't get the sense.

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I think that the desire to give a monologue to camera is being emphasised when we also need to be learning that the doctor's actually losing it a bit and he's starting to fear his own shadow.

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And that works thematically, doesn't it?

156
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Because Clara discovers that the doctor has always been frightened.

157
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We need to see a hint of that here and we don't.

158
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He's a bit too imperious in that scene, I think.

159
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Yeah, I think it may have been more effective.

160
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If he was sort of being a bit funny with it, like he's riffing on the idea, but then the chalk disappears, you know, for horror, you need that falling action.

161
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You know, you need, oh my god, there's there's a sound.

162
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Oh, it's just a bus pulling up.

163
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It's not the it's not the leopard about to leap out and attack me.

164
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Yeah, so I think you're right, Fiona.

165
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I think, and this is a problem I have with Capaldi in this 1st series in that sometimes they go for the obvious direction of we've cast an older actor after a series of younger actors.

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We're going to make him grumpy and imperious.

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We're making him pixie like is more interesting.

168
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Yeah, um, that was another thing I really noticed in this season is I think this is the season definitely where I think I like him the most.

169
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For reasons like that.

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I feel in this one.

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He's not sort of so much a grumpy old man as he's just still, An older man, so he's not sort of of the same generation as, say, oh, say Matt, you know, he's very much like, even though he's played as a very much an ancient character, especially towards the end.

172
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He is very much on the outside, like a real hipster, sort of like um, good looking guy.

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This one, like he's still actually like a good looking man, but he's like an older man, not an old man.

174
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And I think, and this is actually my favourite hair for him, which most people like him with more hair.

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I think later, I think it's just more in character with the personality just being a little bit more prickly kind of thing, whereas later it just becomes almost a little bit try hard, like it sort of, I think later, it sort of gets towards, sometimes it's just sort of like it's almost trying to do the pert wee buffon, but not quite putting it off.

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Yes, it's like over the top doctorate.

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It's exactly the same reason I don't like Matt Smith's later costume.

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They're sort of leaning into those things that kind of failed in Doctor Who the 1st time round.

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It's the hair of an idiot thing, which is a Moffat line.

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That's how Liz Hen recognises them.

181
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But I was really, I mean, having not, as we just discussed earlier, having not seen any of these episodes for a decade, I was really curious to see, so what do I think of Capaldi's performance because we were all talking at the time about, oh, is he too gruff?

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Is he too angry, is he too aggressive, et cetera, et cetera?

183
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And I found myself very pleasantly surprised that it's actually, it actually does pull back most of the time, uh, and I think the times it doesn't are yet to come, but most of the time it does pull back uh, and is is still on the twinkly side of nasty, if I can put it that way.

184
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I think that it's into the Dalek, isn't it?

185
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Where he is kind of a bit too brutal for some people.

186
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That's what Todd said, for instance.

187
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Whereas I actually think the great thing about those lines when he's being awful is that those lines are incredibly funny.

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Yes.

189
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Yeah, exactly.

190
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

191
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Dual's knowledge of the arc has been thought of their digest. digestion annotated yes.

192
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Yes, but exactly.

193
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I mean, you know, all those sorts of black humour has been throughout the program.

194
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Oh, yeah.

195
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And the other thing that's happening too, this season is that each episode seems to come at the idea of whether the doctor's a hero or not in a completely different kind of way.

196
00:17:49.019 --> 00:17:57.599
And so this time we're also investigating the doctor as a hero, but we're looking at it in quite a different way.

197
00:17:57.660 --> 00:18:08.160
And I think we're starting to draw the parallel that happened in episode two, between the doctor and Danny, in time for their big confrontation in a couple of weeks' time.

198
00:18:08.220 --> 00:18:18.480
And here we get to see both Danny and the doctor kind of being created by Clara in the same episode.

199
00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:19.440
Yes, exactly.

200
00:18:20.279 --> 00:18:29.819
Something I also found interesting about that having, you know, watched all of Clara and remembering what happens to her.

201
00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:43.680
There's the do as you're told. comes up from both the doctor and Clara in this, and Clara with Rupert is like beat for beat, the doctor meeting Amelia.

202
00:18:44.099 --> 00:18:49.559
Like, you know, talking about fear and being scared and it's like, oh, well, there's nothing to be scared of.

203
00:18:49.619 --> 00:18:57.779
And then something sits on the bed or the crack white and it's like, you know, when adults tell you everything's going to be fine and you know that they're like, well, everything's going to be fine.

204
00:18:57.839 --> 00:18:58.200
Yeah.

205
00:18:58.440 --> 00:19:03.299
But Jenna is so wonderful in those scenes.

206
00:19:03.299 --> 00:19:08.579
As is young Remy Gooding, who this is his only television.

207
00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:09.119
Really?

208
00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:12.900
He, at the same time, was in Matilda in the West End.

209
00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:18.480
But it looks like he didn't do much theatre and no television after this, which is a shame.

210
00:19:18.539 --> 00:19:19.440
He's a great actor.

211
00:19:19.500 --> 00:19:20.940
He's really good in this I think.

212
00:19:21.059 --> 00:19:21.960
No I think he's really good.

213
00:19:22.019 --> 00:19:30.000
But how scary is that scene where they're under the bed and there's just like the weight on, because you don't expect that to happen.

214
00:19:30.059 --> 00:19:42.900
I sort of, even when I was rewatching it, I expected to like something to either be under the bed or something to come and like poke them under the bed, but that's the last thing you expect is something to actually be on the bed.

215
00:19:42.900 --> 00:19:46.920
And like, it's properly, properly scary.

216
00:19:46.980 --> 00:19:54.660
Like you could easily have that like put into an adult sort of horror movie, a similar concept and like make it really, really scary.

217
00:19:55.019 --> 00:19:58.740
I think McKinnon actually gets that scene right.

218
00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:02.700
That's really his kind of best moment in the episode.

219
00:20:02.759 --> 00:20:10.259
And it's not just the visuals with the kind of vaguely out of focus thing in the background and making sure that it does move like a small child.

220
00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:13.740
Like it absolutely moves like a kid under the blanket.

221
00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:16.079
But it's also the sound, I think.

222
00:20:16.140 --> 00:20:27.480
And he gets the sound right both here and in the big scary scene at the end of the universe too, where I think he successfully creates some jump scares just through the use of sound.

223
00:20:27.539 --> 00:20:33.000
Yeah, no, the use of sound, especially in the end of the universe sequence is absolutely fantastic.

224
00:20:33.059 --> 00:20:33.960
It's interesting.

225
00:20:34.019 --> 00:20:40.380
I actually don't find the shape under the blanket to be good.

226
00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:46.259
Like, the whole point is that this thing is completely unseen or virtually completely unseen.

227
00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:48.059
Sometimes you see it out of the corner if you're right.

228
00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:55.799
And when we see it at other times where we see something that's out of focus and shadow, we like when it comes up and stands behind them when they're standing at the window, not looking at it.

229
00:20:55.859 --> 00:20:58.200
I think that's the good representation of it.

230
00:20:58.259 --> 00:21:05.819
But when it kind of feels like it's this solid shape under the bedclothes, I get what you're saying that, oh, it's like the shape of a small child, it moves like a small child.

231
00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:11.160
So it does sort of, it does make sense, but I just wish that we didn't see this big lump under the bedclothes.

232
00:21:11.220 --> 00:21:15.720
I wish it had been more kind of, is it actually there or is it to sort of...

233
00:21:15.779 --> 00:21:21.539
What's interesting about this scene is many moons ago.

234
00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:24.539
I recorded a podcast with J.R.

235
00:21:24.539 --> 00:21:35.880
Southall, and I don't know if it was his podcast or we were guesting on another one, but J.R. and I got into quite a heated debate as to whether there was a creature or whether it just was one of the other kids in the orphanage.

236
00:21:35.940 --> 00:21:38.819
And I'm on the creature side of things.

237
00:21:38.819 --> 00:21:42.420
And JR was like, no, the whole point of the story is there isn't a creature.

238
00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:45.059
And we were just going back and forth like that.

239
00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:46.920
Oh, what are the stories that there is a creature?

240
00:21:46.980 --> 00:21:48.539
Well, is...

241
00:21:48.539 --> 00:21:49.019
That's the thing.

242
00:21:49.380 --> 00:21:58.200
Watching this time, I was more like, oh, no, no, it is deliberately ambiguous and reading up on Stephen Moffat's writing process.

243
00:21:58.259 --> 00:22:02.339
He's like, I don't I don't know what the answer is.

244
00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:03.539
I'm not telling you.

245
00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:05.220
So, you know, that's fair enough.

246
00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:16.380
But interestingly enough, the real life person under there is Kieran Shah who we recently saw on Bondfinger in Bull'seye as a mob boss.

247
00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:16.920
Oh my god.

248
00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:24.539
So the thing is with Moffat is there is no fact of the matter, because all there is is the TV show.

249
00:22:24.599 --> 00:22:28.019
It's not representing something that goes on in the world.

250
00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:31.740
So there's no answer to the question and that's deliberate.

251
00:22:31.799 --> 00:22:45.000
I think that we do discover there's a creature, but I think that that creature is fear or something like that because, you know, Stephen Moffat has always said the Doctor Who takes place under your bed, right?

252
00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:47.880
And he reuses things that he's used before.

253
00:22:47.940 --> 00:22:52.920
So we had the clockwork droid under the bed and girl in the fireplace.

254
00:22:52.980 --> 00:22:57.119
We had the thing in the corner of your eye in the 11th hour.

255
00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:06.299
We've had the Vashtanarada, which are, you know, monsters that live in the shadows and exist everywhere.

256
00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:08.519
And so that's Moffat's thing.

257
00:23:08.579 --> 00:23:17.940
Moffat is about the scares, those indefinable scares that take place when you're alone or when you're not paying close attention and so on.

258
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:20.579
And here he's absolutely doing that.

259
00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:25.259
This is the kind of thing, it's what causes you to feel that way.

260
00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:27.539
What causes those everyday feelings.

261
00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:31.680
And then the episode largely just ends up being about fear.

262
00:23:31.980 --> 00:23:35.160
I was going to say midnight as well.

263
00:23:35.220 --> 00:23:39.480
Midnight is Russell T. It's not actually a Stephen Mothman.

264
00:23:39.480 --> 00:23:41.759
But he's stealing from the...

265
00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:44.039
Yeah, well, absolutely.

266
00:23:44.099 --> 00:23:47.940
And I'm a huge fan of midnight, I think that is outstanding.

267
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:54.480
And the scene, especially in the spaceship later on, is very similar to the premise of the night.

268
00:23:54.539 --> 00:23:57.059
Yes.

269
00:23:57.059 --> 00:23:58.920
And also Blair Witch Project, that movie.

270
00:23:58.980 --> 00:24:06.000
There's a lot of elements to that, the fact that you never actually see something, but you're really scared by what is happening off screen.

271
00:24:06.059 --> 00:24:12.359
Um, I think we've got, uh, I'm sorry, to hark back to the body under the blanket as such.

272
00:24:12.420 --> 00:24:24.599
But I think one of the weaknesses is that from our viewer perspective is where it's not quite clear whether the size of the person or thing under the blanket is a child size or an adult size.

273
00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:31.019
Because see, if it was obvious it was a child, then you would say, oh, maybe it is another kid playing a joke.

274
00:24:31.079 --> 00:24:40.319
But my on the rewatch, my initial thing was like, when's Clara going to say, oh, doctor, like say it's the doctor, like mucking about and playing a joke?

275
00:24:40.380 --> 00:24:45.180
Like, expect the doctor to sort of pull back the blanket and say, ha ha, how funny am I?

276
00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:47.640
Um which doesn't, of course, happen.

277
00:24:47.700 --> 00:24:52.200
So I think that's maybe a weakness is you're not quite sure how big the object is.

278
00:24:53.220 --> 00:24:57.779
Especially when, you know, the doctor has just nicked poor Reg's coffee.

279
00:24:57.839 --> 00:24:58.680
God, that's funny.

280
00:24:58.740 --> 00:25:00.359
That is so brilliant.

281
00:25:00.420 --> 00:25:03.420
And I noticed 2 weird things about that scene.

282
00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:15.539
So, one, when the doctor's talking about the coffee and he's about to nick it, if you listen to the music, it sounds remarkably like the teleport effect from Nerva Beacon, which is really, really weird.

283
00:25:15.539 --> 00:25:21.660
But also, I looked up the actor who plays Reg, who is Robert Goodman.

284
00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:26.400
Because really there's only 2 guest actors in this, there's Robert Goodman and Remy Gooding.

285
00:25:26.460 --> 00:25:28.559
Oh my god, there's the same initials.

286
00:25:28.619 --> 00:25:33.299
But he actually had a bunch of uncredited roles in the classic series.

287
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:37.259
Starting off with being a mandrel in the nightmare of Eden.

288
00:25:37.319 --> 00:25:38.880
Yes, me.

289
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:42.779
But, you know, then he's then he's aboard the starliner in full circle.

290
00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:44.579
He's on Gallifray.

291
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:45.839
Arc of Infinity.

292
00:25:45.900 --> 00:25:46.799
Well, that was forgettable for him.

293
00:25:46.859 --> 00:25:49.140
Yeah, party get an enlightenment.

294
00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:49.440
Wow.

295
00:25:49.500 --> 00:25:49.859
Good.

296
00:25:49.859 --> 00:25:50.160
Yep.

297
00:25:50.220 --> 00:25:51.900
And he's in terror of the verboids.

298
00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:52.740
It just says Loder.

299
00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:57.000
I choose to believe he's the one who almost throws Bonnie Langford in the pulverizer.

300
00:25:57.059 --> 00:25:58.259
Yes, let's hope.

301
00:25:58.380 --> 00:26:01.259
So he totally deserves his coffee.

302
00:26:01.319 --> 00:26:03.720
Well, who says you can't make it a career out of being an extra.

303
00:26:03.779 --> 00:26:04.619
Yes.

304
00:26:04.619 --> 00:26:06.000
He's really great.

305
00:26:06.119 --> 00:26:14.339
And it's the doctor also being kind of super short story, doctor just sort of turning up, saying a few enigmatic things, stealing a coffee.

306
00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:16.559
And again, that's terrifically well directed.

307
00:26:16.619 --> 00:26:24.720
We talked last week about the spoon suddenly coming into shot when the doctors in the Tartars before he uses them to fight Robin Hood.

308
00:26:24.779 --> 00:26:29.400
Here, he's just walking along and then the coffee cup comes into shop.

309
00:26:30.779 --> 00:26:32.640
So tremendous.

310
00:26:32.700 --> 00:26:42.059
It also kind of reminds me of Incursive Fenrick, Paul Perkins is patrolling and the doctor startles him, but he's just like, A's in the dark watching.

311
00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:45.599
Perkins looks around like, is this even scripted?

312
00:26:45.660 --> 00:26:46.799
What's going on?

313
00:27:01.859 --> 00:27:05.519
I think that stuff, where he's insulting her appearance.

314
00:27:05.579 --> 00:27:10.859
We've sort of said this before actually works really well because she's not offended by it.

315
00:27:10.920 --> 00:27:13.440
Yeah, it's exactly because she just knows that he's an idiot.

316
00:27:13.559 --> 00:27:14.460
Yes, that's right.

317
00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:17.400
And there's that bit where he drops her off at the date the 2nd time.

318
00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:30.000
Oh, the 1st time he drops her off at the date and she sees herself leaving and admires her own backside and he doesn't see her and she's not at all phased by that.

319
00:27:30.059 --> 00:27:30.900
Yes.

320
00:27:30.900 --> 00:27:39.839
So yeah, let's talk about the date because this is Moffat doing what he did in Into the Dalek.

321
00:27:39.900 --> 00:27:56.339
So you remember that we have the 1st interaction between Danny and Clara keeps being intercart with him, you know, bitterly regretting not having properly asked her out and, you know, finding a classroom to bang his head on the table and stuff like that.

322
00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:59.160
And which is just the life of a teacher.

323
00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:01.680
Oh, more of that later.

324
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:16.200
But that date, the way that we intercut in this sort of very press gangway, we intercut between her coming home after the dates failed and us watching the date slowly fail.

325
00:28:16.259 --> 00:28:21.119
And I think that that's absolutely brilliant and sort of terribly funny.

326
00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:25.559
And he manages to tie it into the theme of the thing as well.

327
00:28:25.619 --> 00:28:27.299
Yes, very clever.

328
00:28:27.299 --> 00:28:35.160
After the discovery about fear, she's able to go back and fix the date and make sure that it happens properly after it fails twice.

329
00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:37.799
Yes, but then an astronaut comes in.

330
00:28:38.099 --> 00:28:44.160
I don't know that the, I don't know that the date actually succeeds the 2nd time round.

331
00:28:44.220 --> 00:28:44.940
It just fails differently.

332
00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:51.359
No, no, but I mean, then she goes over to his place at the end and we actually get the date succeeding.

333
00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:55.200
But also, don't you love the fact that daddy says when he sits down, what did you do with your jacket?

334
00:28:55.259 --> 00:28:56.039
You had a jacket.

335
00:28:56.099 --> 00:28:58.680
It's like it's like Brian when we're watching a film.

336
00:28:58.740 --> 00:29:00.599
He'll spot all those kind of continuity eras.

337
00:29:00.660 --> 00:29:02.279
Like, the actress was wearing a jacket before.

338
00:29:02.339 --> 00:29:17.099
Well, he actually spots it in into the Dalek as well because she goes into the stationary cupboard or whatever, goes on an adventure with a doctor, falls in a lot of goo, changes her outfit, then comes out, and he says you've changed clothes.

339
00:29:17.819 --> 00:29:21.119
We already know that he can spot that.

340
00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:32.220
And of course, in a couple of weeks time, that's going to be a massive comedy bit at the beginning of the episode in one of my favourite sequences of the entire series.

341
00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:33.539
But I really like it.

342
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:36.779
I think this comes up sort of next week as well with Time Heist.

343
00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:48.960
We're leaning back into this idea that the doctor's not so much asexual, but the fact that he just doesn't understand human sexuality, he doesn't understand the ridiculously over the top mating rituals, which we're getting.

344
00:29:49.019 --> 00:29:54.539
It goes back to that sort of the classic series if the doctor kind of not really understanding. know, you're a very beautiful woman probably.

345
00:29:55.019 --> 00:30:05.579
Whereas, so it moves away from that kind of Russell T era, and, you know, it spills over to the Matt Smith era as the doctor being a kind of an actual sexual character or a character with a sexuality.

346
00:30:05.700 --> 00:30:11.339
Well, remember that you've got Matt Smith is a bit like that as well, and he can't tell that Amy's pregnant, for instance.

347
00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:12.839
He can't tell the name he's pregnant?

348
00:30:12.900 --> 00:30:17.099
No, but he can still, he still develops what is quite clearly a magic attachment with River.

349
00:30:17.160 --> 00:30:20.880
You cannot imagine Capaldi doing this despite what happens, you know.

350
00:30:20.940 --> 00:30:21.660
He will, though.

351
00:30:21.660 --> 00:30:28.079
Yeah, but I just like seeing that song, you know, the doctor is an alien, you know, and we're a different species.

352
00:30:28.140 --> 00:30:29.279
He's not going to understand us.

353
00:30:35.460 --> 00:30:38.160
Capaldi with Clara.

354
00:30:38.220 --> 00:30:58.920
Like, I just love the sort of interaction, like, it is that sort of bit of that grumpiness, and he can be like quite hard on her, but one of the things that he's very strong about is there's so much going on in his eyes and on his face all the time without him opening his mouth, you don't so much see in this episode, but it's throughout sort of his time with Clara.

355
00:30:58.980 --> 00:31:07.380
He has a special I love Clara look that he'll kind of give her when he she's not looking, so she never gets to see it.

356
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:14.160
We only get to see it, but it just shows without him saying a word how much he absolutely does love her.

357
00:31:14.220 --> 00:31:16.319
And I love the fact that it is.

358
00:31:16.380 --> 00:31:17.400
It's a very much.

359
00:31:17.460 --> 00:31:32.099
He loves her, but he's not interested in getting into her pants in any way, shape or form, like it's completely non-sexual, which is why, you know, in that later, Matt Smith thing with the whole skirt too type thing was, which has a bit got a bit icky.

360
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:36.240
Um, because yeah, it's absolutely like he just loves her.

361
00:31:36.299 --> 00:31:41.460
And that gets played out sort of at the end of the season where he just, you know, has the line.

362
00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:47.460
We won't talk about that spoilers, but it comes to, it comes out later in their episodes together.

363
00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:48.720
Yeah.

364
00:31:48.779 --> 00:31:56.220
You sort of pick up on the fact that Capaldi has an incredibly expressive face, not just in the eyebrows, but all parts of his face.

365
00:31:56.279 --> 00:31:57.900
There a lot of character there, and he doesn't use it.

366
00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:04.380
Whilst you sometimes use it in a slight aestagia way than where otherwise you used to from other actors, It never feels over the top.

367
00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:06.000
It never feels like he's cheering the scenery.

368
00:32:06.059 --> 00:32:07.740
It's sort of very much like Tom.

369
00:32:07.799 --> 00:32:13.140
Tom has this incredibly expressive face, which you can do so much with without overdoing it either.

370
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:30.000
It's something that actually reminds me of Hartnell and Barbara in that, I think, sort of after the edge of destruction, when Barbara tells him what an utter bastard he is, he actually starts to adore her.

371
00:32:30.059 --> 00:32:38.819
And, you know, it's even when he, even after they have their shouting match of the Aztecs, he's immediately giving her a hug and saying, I understand what you're trying to do, et cetera.

372
00:32:38.940 --> 00:32:41.819
And of all things.

373
00:32:41.880 --> 00:32:47.759
Strangely, it also reminds me of the relationship between Neelix and Captain Janeway on Voyager.

374
00:32:47.819 --> 00:33:17.700
It's like once once the very ill-advised relationship with Kess is no longer there, whenever, if you watch it, whenever Neelix and Janeway have a scene, especially where it's just the 2 of them, there's this look of adoration and admiration on Ethan Phillips's face, which culminates in like the 2nd last episode of Voyager, where Neelix leaves, and there's a wonderful quiet scene between the 2 of them talking about how much they've developed in each other's company.

375
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:25.500
And it is a new direction for the show to go in because of course, you know, we had rose and the doctor being in love.

376
00:33:25.559 --> 00:33:28.019
We had the unrequited thing with Martha.

377
00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:30.119
We had the just mates thing with Donna.

378
00:33:30.180 --> 00:33:34.200
We had sort of Amy's very highly charged sexuality.

379
00:33:34.259 --> 00:33:47.160
And then we had, as you say, Fiona, the slightly uncomfortable thing with Matt Smith and Clara, where, you know, he's stalking her all her life because he thinks she's a weapon, but also she's wearing a skirt that's just a bit too.

380
00:33:47.220 --> 00:33:48.000
No, don't say that.

381
00:33:48.720 --> 00:34:04.559
Whereas yet, now we get this a really great and interesting and multifaceted relationship and I actually found out this little story about filming the date scene where he drops her off again.

382
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:26.099
The night before, a woman and her children had just stumbled across the filming, and her children were big fans of the program, including her five-year-old daughter, Roxanne, who was autistic, and had been very concerned since the regeneration because she loved Matt Smith's doctor, and she was worried the doctor wouldn't want to have adventures with her anymore.

383
00:34:27.059 --> 00:34:41.579
So when they had stumbled across the filming, it was the night before in the restaurant, so Capaldi wasn't there and the production team kind of said to, well, look, um, you might want to come back tomorrow if you can.

384
00:34:41.699 --> 00:34:47.699
So when they did, they brought the family through and took them to meet Peter and Jenna.

385
00:34:47.760 --> 00:35:10.320
So in her Dalek costume, Roxanne was met on Tuesday night by Douglas McKinnon, who took the family to meet Peter Capaldi and Jenna Coleman, Peter Capaldi showed her a photo on his phone of himself with Matt and Jenna filming the regeneration and said to her, look, Matt and Jenna have said it's okay for me to be the doctor.

386
00:35:10.380 --> 00:35:14.460
So I hope you think it will be okay for me to be the doctor too.

387
00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:18.179
And I mean, isn't that sweet?

388
00:35:18.239 --> 00:35:20.699
That was, you know, that was off Peter's own bat.

389
00:35:22.500 --> 00:35:24.420
But he does that.

390
00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:27.059
That's the other thing about Peter Capoldi as the doctor.

391
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:31.559
Part of the job is to be an ambassador.

392
00:35:31.619 --> 00:35:35.760
And I think people, people like David Tennant was superb at it.

393
00:35:35.820 --> 00:35:39.659
Jody Whittaker was extremely good at it. was superb as well.

394
00:35:39.719 --> 00:35:44.880
But Capaldi doesn't get enough praise for his warmth and generosity and all of that.

395
00:35:44.940 --> 00:36:00.360
I remember seeing him at one of those Comic-Con, whatever they're called things that we've been to once or twice, and we were in the queue of photographs, and there was sort of a family with quite young kids that were getting the photograph with Capaldi, and the little kid was obviously very little.

396
00:36:00.420 --> 00:36:10.980
And he, when he, the photographer was about to be taken and he said, wait, wait. and he knelt down to be with the little kid holding out the Sonic screwdriver to make the kid the centre of attention.

397
00:36:11.039 --> 00:36:13.500
It was like, and Brian and I just turned to each other and said, he's good.

398
00:36:13.559 --> 00:36:15.179
He knows what he's doing.

399
00:36:15.239 --> 00:36:21.659
And this is one of 100s of photographs being taken in this in rapid succession and he cared about every single one of them.

400
00:36:21.719 --> 00:36:31.739
I mean, we thought we had it good when David Tennant was the doctor and he would crack jokes about monoids. on the commentary tracks.

401
00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:35.159
But, I mean, Capaldi's a whole other level, I think, like that.

402
00:36:35.219 --> 00:36:36.960
I must listen to his comic.

403
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:41.400
I actually met Peter at the same convention.

404
00:36:41.460 --> 00:36:55.739
Simon was at and he was just an absolute gentleman, really sweet and kind and he genuinely cared that my experience meeting him was a +one and I saw that same evidence that everybody.

405
00:36:55.800 --> 00:37:02.400
Um, the other example I've seen of that was at the Excel one for the 50th where I met Matt Smith.

406
00:37:02.460 --> 00:37:20.519
And you could, it was quite clear that he was exhausted and it was massive crowds, really long day and every time a young child came up to have a photo with him, he would just go into character and just put so much energy in and just be the doctor for them.

407
00:37:20.579 --> 00:37:25.079
And I was just like, just for that moment, I said you have my heart forever.

408
00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:28.980
Like it was just, um, that's the sort of thing money can't buy.

409
00:37:35.039 --> 00:37:48.900
Obviously, the Moffat thing of having an astronaut walk into the restaurant while you're on a date is only made more moffity by the fact that it's Samuel Anderson in the spacesuit.

410
00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:49.500
Yes.

411
00:37:49.500 --> 00:37:56.340
And you said before, Fiona, about Awson Pink, and where does he come from?

412
00:37:56.400 --> 00:38:03.900
So he's clearly Danny and Clara's great, great, great or great, great grandson, something like that.

413
00:38:03.960 --> 00:38:05.400
Was it about 100 years in grand, right?

414
00:38:05.460 --> 00:38:11.519
Great grandson because he says that the soldier toy is an heirloom from my grandmother.

415
00:38:11.639 --> 00:38:14.159
Well, my great grandmother used to tell stories about time travel.

416
00:38:14.219 --> 00:38:15.780
Yes, yes, yes, yes.

417
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:19.019
So at this point, Danny's not dead.

418
00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:23.579
And so the future, uh...

419
00:38:23.579 --> 00:38:24.840
Spoiler alert, David.

420
00:38:26.099 --> 00:38:34.019
And they do have sex pretty much immediately once the credits start rolling, we think, in this episode.

421
00:38:34.079 --> 00:38:35.039
Who can blame them?

422
00:38:35.099 --> 00:38:37.800
No, we're both incredibly good looking young people.

423
00:38:38.579 --> 00:38:41.039
So I think that that's it.

424
00:38:41.099 --> 00:38:50.280
We're not going to judge, but also I think too, it's, I mean, Moffat must have been already aware of what he was going to do with Danny in episode 11.

425
00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:55.980
So he's throwing us off the scent, I think, or making that more shocking and surprising.

426
00:38:56.039 --> 00:38:58.739
Or possibly just not caring that that's an inconsistency.

427
00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:00.059
Yeah, well, there's that too.

428
00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:01.800
And it is a timey whimey thing at the moment.

429
00:39:01.860 --> 00:39:03.360
They're both alive. one possible future.

430
00:39:03.420 --> 00:39:03.840
Exactly.

431
00:39:03.900 --> 00:39:11.699
And, you know, we've brought back a companion's boyfriend from the dead before several times because we like half a dog.

432
00:39:11.940 --> 00:39:14.099
It could happen again.

433
00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:16.559
But as you've sort of said, Nathan, before.

434
00:39:16.619 --> 00:39:18.239
I mean, it would kind of implied before.

435
00:39:18.300 --> 00:39:22.199
I don't want anything like that to get in the way of a really good story.

436
00:39:22.260 --> 00:39:23.519
I really got back into the story.

437
00:39:23.579 --> 00:39:26.219
I don't think it matters. as I said there are many possible futures.

438
00:39:26.340 --> 00:39:27.780
Time can be rewritten.

439
00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:39.239
And so that soldier is important because the soldier, there's that moment where they're with Rupert and Rupert says that that toy is broken, it doesn't even have a gun.

440
00:39:39.239 --> 00:39:46.619
And Clara, describing the doctor, says he's so brave that he doesn't even need a gun.

441
00:39:46.739 --> 00:39:53.460
And so that's identified with the doctor, but it's also identified with Danny because that's where Danny gets his name from.

442
00:39:53.519 --> 00:40:01.920
And there's that hilarious throwaway line in the TARDIS where the doctor says, oh, I just gave him a dream about being Dan the soldier man.

443
00:40:05.219 --> 00:40:15.539
And you've got Janet kind of absolutely horrified by the fact that he had being a soldier was his fault and his idea.

444
00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:23.579
And that comes back to something you were saying, Fiona, in that Clara head desks onto the console and the doctor is beside himself with worry.

445
00:40:23.639 --> 00:40:26.519
But the 2nd she looks at him again, his face goes new.

446
00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:30.000
But when she can't see him, he's like, oh, my God, are you all right?

447
00:40:30.059 --> 00:40:30.780
What's happened?

448
00:40:30.780 --> 00:40:31.260
What's happened?

449
00:40:31.260 --> 00:40:38.940
The other brilliant thing about that scene is the doctor, you know, constantly going, you know, don't lie to the child and Clara, shut up. sit down.

450
00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:48.960
And there was another line, almost ripped straight from coupling there where Clara turns around and says to the doctor, doctor, sit on it until it stops talking.

451
00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:54.539
And the doctor sits down for a 2nd and then goes, I just got that.

452
00:40:54.599 --> 00:40:56.400
That's really, really good.

453
00:40:57.659 --> 00:41:18.960
Can I just touch on the performance that we have there as awesome Pink and how well done it is that he manages to create a completely separate character who is effectively supposed to be the same descendant of the main character who's playing very, very nice and there's a lot of exhaustion in that performance and a lot of fear and internal conflict.

454
00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:20.699
It's really, really suddenly done.

455
00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:27.179
And going back to something you were saying earlier about, into the Dalek, Nathan, where, you know, he's quite callous and whatnot.

456
00:41:27.239 --> 00:41:34.500
He does kind of force Orson into telling him a little bit more about, you know, there's something outside.

457
00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:39.539
But when Mawson says, don't make me stay here another night, the doctor puts him in the TARDIS.

458
00:41:39.599 --> 00:41:54.239
You know, he doesn't make Orson live through the night again in order to satisfy his curiosity, which it is an improvement of the character, and it doesn't take Clara saying to him, oh, can't you see he's upset, et cetera, et cetera.

459
00:41:54.300 --> 00:42:01.559
Samuel Anderson quite enjoyed playing both parts and at his photo shoot for Awson Pink, he said, I look like Tom Jones.

460
00:42:03.059 --> 00:42:26.880
Yeah In that spaceship, we get that scene, then, with the doctor and Clara outside, while Awson's inside, and she asked the doctor for an explanation, and he says, what sort of explanation do you want?

461
00:42:26.940 --> 00:42:29.460
And she says a reassuring one.

462
00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:34.559
And then for the rest of... like myself cheaply from...

463
00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:35.460
It's brilliant moment.

464
00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:36.420
So good.

465
00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:47.519
But the thing is that that allows Moffatt to give a non-supernatural, non-monstery explanation for literally everything that's happening.

466
00:42:47.579 --> 00:42:53.400
And I think part of the problem with the direction here is that it's overlit, it's all gels.

467
00:42:53.460 --> 00:42:55.500
I mean, you have that mood lighting line.

468
00:42:55.559 --> 00:42:57.239
Do you have mood lighting now, doctor?

469
00:42:57.300 --> 00:43:00.000
Because frankly, the accent is already a big part.

470
00:43:00.719 --> 00:43:03.900
It should be more ambiguous, I think.

471
00:43:03.960 --> 00:43:09.300
Because it is very directed as if there is definitely something outside knocking on the door.

472
00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:15.119
And you've got the doctor's reassuring explanation, which needs to be plausible for the thing to work.

473
00:43:15.179 --> 00:43:28.380
And I think that's the problem is that the direction doesn't capture the ambiguity of the child under the blanket well enough, and it makes this a little bit too, obviously.

474
00:43:28.440 --> 00:43:36.059
It's quite interesting, your observations, because I was never watching it thinking that there was a possibility that actually it's just our imagination.

475
00:43:36.119 --> 00:43:37.380
It's just things that go bump in the night.

476
00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:40.380
Because that is the conclusion that the episode reaches, I think.

477
00:43:40.500 --> 00:43:42.239
The conclusion that there's nothing there?

478
00:43:42.300 --> 00:43:44.699
Oh, see, I don't get that reading at all.

479
00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:57.599
I get the reading that, like the creatures in midnight, like the Vastinarata, there are these things, these creatures, and they are ever present. from the beginning of time to the end of the universe and they're just there. and we don't really interact with them.

480
00:43:57.659 --> 00:44:03.059
But also I think what's sort of clear about it is that they frighten us, but they will never harm us sort of thing.

481
00:44:03.179 --> 00:44:03.900
Yeah.

482
00:44:03.900 --> 00:44:14.099
Because you have Clara going back to the doctor as a frightened child and her recognising that the doctor is always frightened even though he doesn't let on about it.

483
00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:21.360
And so this is an episode where his fear has got out of control and it's led him to create this monster.

484
00:44:21.420 --> 00:44:25.679
And what she does at the end is she teaches the doctor to be brave.

485
00:44:25.739 --> 00:44:33.059
And so I think, I don't think that the episode has to come down on either side.

486
00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:37.619
I think for it to work, both sides need to be plausible.

487
00:44:37.679 --> 00:44:38.940
Yeah.

488
00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:40.380
And it's nearly there.

489
00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:43.019
Like, both times we're scared.

490
00:44:43.079 --> 00:44:45.360
We get alternative explanations.

491
00:44:45.420 --> 00:44:49.139
Oh, it's just the kid from next door under the blanket or it's a monster.

492
00:44:49.199 --> 00:44:56.400
Oh, it's just atmospheric differential shorting out the like a pressure equalisation or something or it's a monster.

493
00:44:56.460 --> 00:45:03.420
And both of those, I think, need to be equally plausible, because I think that that's what the episode's going for.

494
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:03.960
Yeah.

495
00:45:04.019 --> 00:45:04.320
Okay.

496
00:45:04.380 --> 00:45:08.039
Fair enough, but I don't think it, I don't think it ends up, or at least that maybe...

497
00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:12.179
Even if that's where Stephen Moffatt, the writer is going for, it's not what the director's going for.

498
00:45:12.239 --> 00:45:13.920
I think the directors decided that these things are real.

499
00:45:13.980 --> 00:45:19.619
And it's very interesting that because we've got different interpretations about whether these things are real or whether they're not or whether it's supposed to be ambiguous.

500
00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:26.820
I don't notice the what you're calling the bad lighting choices in the, you know, end of the universe spaceship, space, whatever it is.

501
00:45:26.880 --> 00:45:33.179
It's quite fascinating that I'm not seeing that as a problem because I'm taking a different conclusion from the episode.

502
00:45:33.239 --> 00:45:37.739
I think it's just him breaking out the same gels that he uses, yes.

503
00:45:38.940 --> 00:45:40.980
If you're under a good thing.

504
00:45:41.039 --> 00:45:47.099
But, you know, had that been dark instead of really just blue, that would have been more atmospheric.

505
00:45:47.219 --> 00:45:49.800
Yeah, see, well, it's the ship's night mode.

506
00:45:49.860 --> 00:45:51.179
Yes, exactly.

507
00:45:51.239 --> 00:45:52.920
Crew was supposed to be asleep.

508
00:45:52.980 --> 00:45:54.119
Yeah, it's fun.

509
00:45:54.179 --> 00:46:02.519
Like, I come down on the side of there is a monster, but I also definitely see that there's an explanation that there's not a monster.

510
00:46:02.579 --> 00:46:10.619
And so the doctor, the conclusion they come to at the end of the episode is, even if there is a monster, it just wants to be around us.

511
00:46:10.679 --> 00:46:12.539
Yes, it isn't harmless.

512
00:46:12.599 --> 00:46:13.380
It doesn't want to harvest.

513
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:19.320
And it's like, you know, they're not breaking into not trying to get into the ship to hurt Orson.

514
00:46:19.380 --> 00:46:24.719
They're trying to get into the ship because they have always kept humans company and now there are no more humans and what are they going to do?

515
00:46:24.780 --> 00:46:29.579
Because they're all off as little spheres buzzing about. near utopia.

516
00:46:29.639 --> 00:46:40.079
Except I think that when the doctor talks about something that has accompanied you all your life, the episode comes up with the answer, that's your fear.

517
00:46:40.199 --> 00:46:41.340
Yes.

518
00:46:41.340 --> 00:46:41.760
Yeah.

519
00:46:41.820 --> 00:46:44.519
The fear is the thing that's accompanied you all your life.

520
00:46:44.579 --> 00:46:46.980
And fear is the central idea of the episode.

521
00:46:47.099 --> 00:46:55.440
And so I think it, I think that it spoils it a bit if there's very definitely nothing to be afraid of and we're all just making it up.

522
00:46:55.500 --> 00:46:58.679
And if there very definitely is something to be afraid of.

523
00:46:58.739 --> 00:46:59.639
I think that spoils it.

524
00:46:59.699 --> 00:47:02.519
I think that's why the ambiguity needs to be there.

525
00:47:02.579 --> 00:47:02.940
Okay, okay.

526
00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:04.559
I'll pay that the ambiguity.

527
00:47:04.619 --> 00:47:06.300
Well, there should be a great level of ambiguity.

528
00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:07.559
Fine.

529
00:47:07.619 --> 00:47:10.380
I still think it works even without that.

530
00:47:10.440 --> 00:47:15.480
But maybe it's the episode's not really about fear, it's about courage.

531
00:47:15.539 --> 00:47:19.260
And it's about, it's about sort of moving past the fear.

532
00:47:19.380 --> 00:47:26.579
And that's why, you know, the sequence with Clara and holding the doctor's ankle as a child, which is quite terrifying, actually.

533
00:47:26.639 --> 00:47:28.260
That would be terrifying.

534
00:47:28.320 --> 00:47:33.059
I mean, if someone reached out, I mean, basically you'd be, you know, you'd be a mess for the rest of your life.

535
00:47:33.179 --> 00:47:35.940
But the really properly clever thing about that.

536
00:47:36.059 --> 00:47:48.900
The really properly clever thing about that, I think, is that Clara realises just as she grabs his ankle that this is the doctor having that dream.

537
00:47:48.960 --> 00:47:49.800
Yes.

538
00:47:49.800 --> 00:47:54.179
She asks the doctor, Did you have that dream and he refuses to answer?

539
00:47:54.239 --> 00:48:06.360
When she gets distracted, she's 1st distracted by Danny and so they land just after he has that dream as a child, then she gets distracted by the doctor.

540
00:48:06.420 --> 00:48:08.039
She's also been thinking about the doctor.

541
00:48:08.099 --> 00:48:12.659
And so the next place we land is where the doctor is about to have that dream.

542
00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:15.900
And there's a beautiful bit of direction.

543
00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:19.380
You know, we get the 3 people, the 3 random people.

544
00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:23.340
You never have this in Doctor Who because you have to cast someone and create a set and all of that sort of thing.

545
00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:24.840
There's 3 people all having the dream.

546
00:48:24.900 --> 00:48:27.960
A little girl in the past, an older woman and a boy.

547
00:48:28.019 --> 00:48:37.500
And the way the camera moves out from under the bed to see to follow the, like it follows the hand as it comes out.

548
00:48:37.619 --> 00:48:38.940
It's really well done.

549
00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:51.659
And so there's that moment where Clara grabs the doctor's ankle to stop him from getting up and seeing the TARDIS or seeing her and then realises, holy crap, this is me, making him have that dream.

550
00:48:51.719 --> 00:48:55.079
I'm the cause for this entire thing.

551
00:48:55.139 --> 00:48:55.679
Yes, exactly.

552
00:48:55.739 --> 00:48:56.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

553
00:48:56.519 --> 00:48:57.780
Brilliant.

554
00:48:57.840 --> 00:49:02.699
And also, you know, every other hand that's ever done is one of Clara's splinters.

555
00:49:02.760 --> 00:49:04.019
Well, there you go.

556
00:49:04.079 --> 00:49:06.659
She's under In fact, it's Clara under the blanket.

557
00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:18.239
That was where my thoughts were going earlier because when you were saying about the interpretation of it, you've actually all come up with 3 separate theories, I guess.

558
00:49:18.360 --> 00:49:20.760
So Brendan's sort of like in the middle of you.

559
00:49:20.820 --> 00:49:25.139
But that was what I was thinking with the, um, this old the spinter.

560
00:49:25.199 --> 00:49:33.420
One piece is harking back to the name of the doctor where Clara becomes this significant person in the doctor's life.

561
00:49:33.480 --> 00:49:37.380
And when I 1st watched that, I was like, okay, where's the comeback from this?

562
00:49:37.440 --> 00:49:41.699
Like, she's obviously, she's really going to become the most important companion ever.

563
00:49:41.699 --> 00:49:44.880
And closer to him, really than River song.

564
00:49:44.940 --> 00:49:50.880
If she's gone through his time stream, she would really know him better than anybody ever has.

565
00:49:50.940 --> 00:50:07.980
And so this is the fact that from now on, she's also showing that she's shaping, having its, you know, these significant moments where she has actually shaped the person he is, significantly, I think, is that little bit of that thing to just say she's not just an ordinary girl.

566
00:50:08.039 --> 00:50:10.320
She is someone a bit very special.

567
00:50:10.380 --> 00:50:19.800
Like she's the one who gives him the line fear makes companions of us all, which appears at the end of, is it the Daleks or is it...

568
00:50:19.860 --> 00:50:22.019
It's during an unearthly child.

569
00:50:22.079 --> 00:50:23.340
They're in the cave of skulls.

570
00:50:23.400 --> 00:50:27.360
Okay, so she gives him that line.

571
00:50:27.360 --> 00:50:35.820
And, you know, like, just 2 weeks ago, we were talking about the doctor meeting the Daleks for the 1st time and becoming the doctor for the 1st time.

572
00:50:35.880 --> 00:50:46.380
This is Moffatt starting to get interested in the beginning of the series and we saw the doctor and Susan stealing the TARDIS and things in name of the doctor.

573
00:50:46.440 --> 00:50:57.599
I think part of the thing is that Moffat does look at the doctor's origins, but in a way that still leaves them alone.

574
00:50:57.659 --> 00:51:02.039
So he doesn't change anything or fill anything in.

575
00:51:02.099 --> 00:51:10.920
He doesn't make it any less mysterious than it already is, but he is fiddling around the edges of that.

576
00:51:11.519 --> 00:51:17.340
And I think that that's the right approach to take Chris Chibnall.

577
00:51:17.400 --> 00:51:19.980
Yes, I like to say...

578
00:51:21.480 --> 00:51:46.860
What you just said about Clara, Fiona, reminded me of a discussion I had at the time with friend of the podcast, Anson, where we were discussing how Clara's characterisation had changed between seasons, and that's something we've discussed on the show before, and Anson at the time had a very interesting theory, because he had brought up to me, we don't see how the doctor and Clara escaped from the doctor's timeline.

579
00:51:46.920 --> 00:51:52.260
You know, they're trying to get out the name of the doctor, and then all of a sudden they're...

580
00:51:52.320 --> 00:52:01.139
And Anson had a theory that during series 8, it would be revealed that this is actually a different version of Clara.

581
00:52:01.380 --> 00:52:10.619
Which would make it very interesting if, you know, because if she's the same version of Clara, she's already massively influenced the doctor's timeline.

582
00:52:10.679 --> 00:52:13.980
But if this is a new version of Clara, this is her influence of the doctor's time.

583
00:52:14.039 --> 00:52:16.079
Now, obviously, it didn't end up being that.

584
00:52:16.139 --> 00:52:21.239
But it is such an interesting thing that she's still doing it.

585
00:52:22.199 --> 00:52:29.340
Yeah, and I do think it's such a lovely scene, especially when she tells him he can't go out and see where they are.

586
00:52:29.460 --> 00:52:31.860
And then she hug attacks him.

587
00:52:31.980 --> 00:52:32.940
Yes.

588
00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:35.159
I don't do hugging.

589
00:52:35.579 --> 00:52:40.860
I don't take orders and she just gives him an order and he does take it.

590
00:52:40.920 --> 00:52:42.179
He doesn't.

591
00:52:42.239 --> 00:52:43.559
And the same with the hug attack.

592
00:52:43.619 --> 00:52:48.659
He's saying, I don't want to be hugged, but at the same time, he's not fighting her off too because he does love her.

593
00:52:48.659 --> 00:52:52.619
And he does appreciate that, yeah, he's appreciating the hug.

594
00:52:52.679 --> 00:52:54.119
And he's always scared.

595
00:52:54.179 --> 00:52:58.619
Like we now know that he's always scared as well.

596
00:52:58.679 --> 00:53:12.780
I think, I think, though, if you're looking at this era of Doctor Who as part of an ongoing story about a single individual and stuff, then you kind of think, well, Clara's had more to do with the doctor's origins than anyone else.

597
00:53:12.840 --> 00:53:22.079
But I think that it's just because she's the companion when he comes up with these ideas and it is the companions in a way that make the doctor, the doctor.

598
00:53:22.139 --> 00:53:40.800
I mean, if you look back at the very beginning of the show, like Ian calls him doctor or Barbara calls him doctor before anyone else does and he becomes the doctor over the course of that run of 13 episodes at the beginning of the show, partly because of Barbara and Ian, or very largely because of them.

599
00:53:40.860 --> 00:53:43.860
So the companions do create the doctor, I think.

600
00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:44.579
Yeah.

601
00:53:44.639 --> 00:53:50.219
And especially because Clara has emphatically stated at this point, I'm his carer.

602
00:53:50.280 --> 00:53:52.559
Yeah, yes, indeed.

603
00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:16.920
We do have that, uh, the thing that I was worried about at the time when we were watching it and the sort of, uh, picked up on now, which is this, this, the poor choice of how they deal with Danny being a soldier, Danny being uh, ex-military.

604
00:54:16.980 --> 00:54:26.400
Clara has a somewhat negative reaction to it during the date, which is one of the reasons why the date starts to go wrong because she puts her foot in it asking about it, what he'd done as a soldier.

605
00:54:26.460 --> 00:54:35.519
It's odd because, you know, Austin Pink is an astronaut who are traditionally part of the military. is the very strong suggestion that he's part of the military as well.

606
00:54:35.579 --> 00:54:48.000
So I think the way this series, the particular, this particular series, addresses the military addresses Danny's role in the military is incredibly ill judged, and I should become very cross about it as a series moves forward.

607
00:54:48.059 --> 00:55:06.780
Yeah, it was Stephen Moffat addressing a hot button topic because I was, no, I was just back from the UK when this series went out, but around 2012, you had a lot of soldiers coming back to the UK from Afghanistan and getting out of the military and there was actually a big push.

608
00:55:06.840 --> 00:55:10.440
Oh, retrain them as teachers to address the teacher shortage.

609
00:55:10.500 --> 00:55:17.639
And so, you know, I think it's Moffatt picking up on that, but also not knowing any soldiers and not knowing any soldiers who became teachers.

610
00:55:17.699 --> 00:55:18.659
But it's not being a teacher.

611
00:55:18.719 --> 00:55:25.019
It's about being treating him as if the, well, the doctor and others treating him that he's either a savage or an idiot or, totally.

612
00:55:25.079 --> 00:55:25.980
Or worse.

613
00:55:26.039 --> 00:55:27.059
It's a big problem.

614
00:55:27.119 --> 00:55:28.079
Like it's a criminal, basically.

615
00:55:28.139 --> 00:55:34.380
Yeah, it's even more addressing a hot button topic, but apparently not researching or talking to anyone actually involved.

616
00:55:34.440 --> 00:55:38.880
But to be fair, Stephen Moffatt is also writing Danny's lines.

617
00:55:38.940 --> 00:55:45.659
So it's not just writing the doctor and Clara being suspicious about people being soldiers.

618
00:55:45.719 --> 00:55:57.480
The pushback, which comes from Danny, because the thing that Clara puts a foot in it with is by saying, you know, when you say, I could kill Courtney, that really means something.

619
00:55:57.539 --> 00:55:58.079
Yes.

620
00:55:58.079 --> 00:56:07.860
And then we cut back to her kind of reaction to having fluff the day and then they're already in the middle of an argument where he's saying, no, I was there saving people.

621
00:56:07.920 --> 00:56:08.639
I was digging well.

622
00:56:08.699 --> 00:56:10.079
Absolutely.

623
00:56:10.139 --> 00:56:11.519
And it's fine here.

624
00:56:11.639 --> 00:56:12.599
It's later.

625
00:56:12.659 --> 00:56:13.500
Oh yeah.

626
00:56:13.559 --> 00:56:16.019
Yeah, it's going to be a problem.

627
00:56:16.079 --> 00:56:19.800
Maybe because basically what I'm uncomfortable with is not that Danny has a comeback.

628
00:56:19.860 --> 00:56:20.940
It's a very good comeback.

629
00:56:21.000 --> 00:56:31.559
It's the fact that our heroes take this view and in some respects, one of the heroes never sheds that view throughout the season, the main hero, in fact.

630
00:56:31.619 --> 00:56:34.320
Very unfortunate, very unfortunate choice.

631
00:56:34.380 --> 00:56:40.500
Look, I think the one thing that you can't get past with this episode is that it's all done incredibly elegantly.

632
00:56:40.559 --> 00:56:46.139
Even if you, you know, want the lighting to be turned down or change some places.

633
00:56:46.199 --> 00:56:50.159
It's all done so cleverly, as was pointed out, there is, the guest cast is microscopic.

634
00:56:50.159 --> 00:56:55.199
And you're drawn into it from the very 1st moment, you're on the edge of your seat.

635
00:56:55.260 --> 00:56:56.460
You stop breathing.

636
00:56:56.519 --> 00:56:59.219
It does everything that you want an episode to do.

637
00:57:23.340 --> 00:57:26.159
Well, that's all we have time for this week.

638
00:57:26.219 --> 00:57:33.900
We'll be back next week. either to overthrow capitalism, or to have a bit of a romp in the galaxy's biggest bank in time heist.

639
00:57:34.139 --> 00:57:51.960
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us on our website, flightforentirety.com, where you'll find links to our accounts on Facebook, Twitter, and Mastodon, as well as links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody Intetera, Maximum Power, and Untitled Star Trek Project.

640
00:57:52.500 --> 00:57:57.239
Until next time, remember that fear makes companions of us all.

641
00:57:57.300 --> 00:57:59.760
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

642
00:57:59.820 --> 00:58:01.320
I want my blankie.

643
00:58:01.380 --> 00:58:01.739
Good night.

644
00:58:01.800 --> 00:58:02.699
Bye for now.

645
00:58:02.760 --> 00:58:03.599
Good night.

646
00:58:07.619 --> 00:58:13.380
That was Flight through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Brandon Jones, Simon Moore, and Fiona Tomney.

647
00:58:13.440 --> 00:58:15.480
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

648
00:58:15.539 --> 00:58:22.139
This episode, level of ambiguity, was recorded on the 15th of January 2023 and released on the 7th of May.

649
00:58:23.579 --> 00:58:36.119
If you have been affected by issues arising in this program, we recommend breaking up the space under your bed, but really after checking it carefully for Clockwork Monsters and perky bisexual English teachers.

650
00:58:45.179 --> 00:58:45.719
Yeah, okay.

651
00:58:45.840 --> 00:58:47.639
I think we can now.

652
00:58:47.699 --> 00:58:49.920
Is anyone, are you frozen again, Fiona?

653
00:58:49.980 --> 00:58:51.300
She's frozen again.

654
00:58:51.360 --> 00:58:51.539
Yeah.

655
00:58:51.539 --> 00:58:57.480
The Clara Danny date is just basically the 1st 3 episodes of coupling, though.

656
00:58:57.539 --> 00:58:58.679
Yeah, oh, no, no, no.

657
00:58:58.739 --> 00:58:59.820
Yeah, that's why he's doing that.

658
00:58:59.880 --> 00:59:01.860
Oh, yeah, it's the right thing.

659
00:59:01.860 --> 00:59:04.079
But it's a way...

660
00:59:04.139 --> 00:59:05.579
She'll come back Yeah.

661
00:59:05.639 --> 00:59:08.460
Did she come back because she has to ask to join again, doesn't she?

662
00:59:08.519 --> 00:59:09.059
Ow.

663
00:59:09.059 --> 00:59:12.059
Will it?

664
00:59:12.119 --> 00:59:13.800
I think that um...

665
00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:17.099
Wait, I'm going to restart.

666
00:59:17.159 --> 00:59:17.820
Oh no, no.

667
00:59:17.880 --> 00:59:19.440
Hooray.

668
00:59:19.500 --> 00:59:27.719
So, Fiona, we've only got 2 minutes left, which means that we've been recording for 80 minutes, so I think we're probably...

669
00:59:27.780 --> 00:59:28.920
I think we've got enough.

670
00:59:29.039 --> 00:59:29.519
That was great.

671
00:59:29.579 --> 00:59:30.300
That was really good.

672
00:59:30.360 --> 00:59:30.840
Thank you very much.

673
00:59:30.900 --> 00:59:31.380
Yeah, thank you.

674
00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:32.400
Is there anything for you?

675
00:59:32.940 --> 00:59:37.559
Is there anything you wanted to say you didn't get a chance to say and we can drop it back in wherever appropriate?

676
00:59:37.619 --> 00:59:41.159
Oh, not really, but while I've got you guys online.

677
00:59:41.219 --> 00:59:49.619
I just wanted to say that one of my favourite Peter Capaldi moments is actually when he's standing in the balloon at the end of Deep Breath.

678
00:59:49.619 --> 00:59:55.139
And I still don't know whether or not he pushed the Clockwork man over.

679
00:59:55.199 --> 01:00:00.000
But I think that's one of his strongest performances is that look on his face without saying a word.

680
01:00:00.059 --> 01:00:03.719
That's my favourite moment and I, yeah.

681
01:00:03.840 --> 01:00:06.360
We landed on he did push him out.

682
01:00:07.380 --> 01:00:09.360
I reckon he did too.

683
01:00:09.420 --> 01:00:10.860
Because he did beat up the tramp.

684
01:00:10.920 --> 01:00:14.159
He did beat up Mrs. Elizabeth Slade.

685
01:00:15.900 --> 01:00:16.739
Tramp his watch.

686
01:00:16.739 --> 01:00:18.360
But he was so clearly lying.

687
01:00:20.219 --> 01:00:22.320
Mr. Elizabeth Slater.

688
01:00:23.639 --> 01:00:33.059
I will say, Fiona, with that with that great shot where he looks up at the camera, I seem to recall like the, you know, the BBC drama in late 2014 trailer.

689
01:00:33.119 --> 01:00:37.739
That's the shot that leads it off with original British drama plastered over Capaldi.

690
01:00:37.800 --> 01:00:45.119
It just a well-placed looking down the barrel of the lens sparingly is can be very, very effective.

691
01:00:45.179 --> 01:00:46.800
Yeah, it's a bit like...

692
01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:51.300
What about when the doctor looks at the camera and goes, even the Sonic screwdriver won't get me out of his head?

693
01:00:51.360 --> 01:00:53.099
Yes, not that one.

694
01:00:53.159 --> 01:00:56.219
I think I think that's not on my list of funds that were successful.

695
01:00:56.280 --> 01:01:00.599
I will also I think if Clara is saying, and remember at the end.

696
01:01:00.599 --> 01:01:01.800
Yeah, that's so good.

697
01:01:01.980 --> 01:01:15.659
And everything this cold open of this episode does well or badly is entirely forgiven for me with Thumb Before the Flood and the who wrote Beethoven's fifth.

698
01:01:15.840 --> 01:01:19.199
Yeah, you know, because they do that again for that.

699
01:01:19.260 --> 01:01:22.860
It's like, you know, a time traveller goes back to meet Beethoven, but no one's ever heard of him.

700
01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:24.300
So he becomes Beethoven.

701
01:01:24.659 --> 01:01:24.840
Yes.

702
01:01:24.900 --> 01:01:25.440
Yes.

703
01:01:27.539 --> 01:01:28.920
Yeah, we dodged a bullet.

704
01:01:28.980 --> 01:01:29.699
I mean, we...

705
01:01:29.699 --> 01:01:36.059
When Weird House didn't become Showrunner, but we did take another bullet.

706
01:01:38.820 --> 01:01:41.940
I think I think the corpse is...

707
01:01:41.940 --> 01:01:43.980
It's got loads of bullets in it.

708
01:01:44.460 --> 01:01:45.059
Yeah, keep that.

709
01:01:45.059 --> 01:01:48.960
It's about like the 7th doctor didn't die from the bullet wound.

710
01:01:49.019 --> 01:01:50.760
He died from botched open heart surgery.

711
01:01:50.820 --> 01:01:51.840
Yes, exactly.

712
01:01:51.900 --> 01:01:55.079
We've got less than a minute and it's going to kick us off this call.

713
01:01:55.500 --> 01:01:56.880
Sure.

714
01:01:56.880 --> 01:01:57.840
Love to see you.

715
01:01:57.900 --> 01:01:58.860
Thank you.

716
01:01:58.860 --> 01:02:01.079
Oh, she's gone.

717
01:02:01.079 --> 01:02:02.400
Now we can't even say goodbye.

718
01:02:02.460 --> 01:02:04.559
Well, you can open up a Facebook chat.

719
01:02:05.159 --> 01:02:06.719
Is she there?

720
01:02:07.679 --> 01:02:09.900
I could call her on Facebook.

721
01:02:09.960 --> 01:02:10.800
Yeah, do that.