WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 13:59:40

1
00:00:39.899 --> 00:00:44.340
Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight for Entirety, the

2
00:00:44.340 --> 00:00:47.939
only Doctor Who podcast set entirely underneath your bed.

3
00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:50.460
You really need to clean up under here.

4
00:00:50.520 --> 00:00:51.299
It's revolting.

5
00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:52.979
I'm Nathan.

6
00:00:53.039 --> 00:00:54.119
I'm Brendan.

7
00:00:54.179 --> 00:00:54.719
I'm Simon.

8
00:00:54.780 --> 00:00:56.219
And I'm Fiona.

9
00:00:56.280 --> 00:00:59.820
Well, the last time the doctor got bored in the TARDIS, he came up

10
00:00:59.820 --> 00:01:03.899
with the excellent plan of shaving his head, but this time he's

11
00:01:03.899 --> 00:01:06.659
gone looking for the invisible monster that's lurking behind you

12
00:01:06.659 --> 00:01:07.980
throughout your entire life.

13
00:01:08.099 --> 00:01:13.140
Only to find himself both ruining and saving Clara's date, as well

14
00:01:13.140 --> 00:01:15.180
as creating both Danny and himself.

15
00:01:15.239 --> 00:01:18.840
This is about to get a bit complicated, so listen.

16
00:01:29.159 --> 00:01:34.079
So I have actually been hanging out to find out the answer to this

17
00:01:34.079 --> 00:01:35.219
question, Fiona.

18
00:01:35.280 --> 00:01:38.400
Did you have the Todd experience watching this episode?

19
00:01:38.819 --> 00:01:42.900
I had a positive taught experience.

20
00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:46.620
So, um, not the, well, no, actually, no.

21
00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:50.700
I've forgotten which way round it works with tonic.

22
00:01:51.719 --> 00:01:54.659
It's usually that he hated it the 1st time round.

23
00:01:54.719 --> 00:01:57.540
No, I actually didn't hate it the 1st time round.

24
00:01:57.659 --> 00:02:00.659
I remember enjoying it the 1st time round, but I literally haven't

25
00:02:00.659 --> 00:02:03.239
watched it in years, so I was really sort of coming into it with

26
00:02:03.239 --> 00:02:06.840
nearly fresh eyes and I loved it.

27
00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:09.060
Like it wasn't perfect, but it's up there.

28
00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:13.379
It's one of those ones which I never really thought about again

29
00:02:13.379 --> 00:02:17.520
and we're getting into the era of Doctor Who, where we were doing

30
00:02:17.520 --> 00:02:19.020
flights through entirety as well.

31
00:02:19.080 --> 00:02:19.800
Yeah.

32
00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:24.240
It just meant that we didn't do a lot of rewatching of new stuff

33
00:02:24.240 --> 00:02:25.979
or at least I didn't.

34
00:02:26.039 --> 00:02:30.000
Yeah, I think, like, the post-credits blooper for our time meddler

35
00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:35.340
episode has us talking about the missy reveal. just happened the

36
00:02:35.340 --> 00:02:35.759
day before.

37
00:02:35.819 --> 00:02:40.379
So, yeah, I mean, season eight, I think I can safely say I've only

38
00:02:40.379 --> 00:02:41.340
watched 3 times.

39
00:02:41.759 --> 00:02:44.699
Except for now rewatching it for the podcast is my 4th time.

40
00:02:44.759 --> 00:02:47.340
Yeah, that's my experience as well.

41
00:02:47.400 --> 00:02:50.099
A lot of these, virtually all of these I haven't seen since they

42
00:02:50.099 --> 00:02:50.520
were on.

43
00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:51.900
Well, not to mention to that one.

44
00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:53.819
You watch them when they're on, then you watch them when the Blu

45
00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:57.060
ray comes out and then that goes on the shelf and then you never

46
00:02:57.060 --> 00:02:57.719
speak of it again.

47
00:02:57.780 --> 00:03:01.740
So I was really keen to see whether I still really loved it

48
00:03:01.740 --> 00:03:05.939
because I really loved it when I saw it 10 or so years ago.

49
00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:10.199
And I have to say it met exceeded even the expectations that I

50
00:03:10.199 --> 00:03:10.439
had.

51
00:03:10.500 --> 00:03:11.460
So yeah.

52
00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:17.340
I have always thought that having 45 minute episodes of Doctor Who

53
00:03:17.340 --> 00:03:22.020
means that you can do something other than just roughly hit the

54
00:03:22.020 --> 00:03:24.120
beats of a four-part Doctor Who story.

55
00:03:24.180 --> 00:03:27.419
You don't have to have an adventure every week and things like

56
00:03:27.419 --> 00:03:31.620
things like Love and Monsters and Boomtown that sort of break the

57
00:03:31.620 --> 00:03:36.599
format by not just having a Doctor Who adventure, I think are

58
00:03:36.599 --> 00:03:37.439
pretty great.

59
00:03:37.500 --> 00:03:41.280
And I think that's that's what Moffatt's doing here.

60
00:03:41.340 --> 00:03:46.740
This is much more like a short story than it is like a Doctor Who

61
00:03:46.740 --> 00:03:47.219
adventure.

62
00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:48.000
Yeah.

63
00:03:48.060 --> 00:03:51.360
I mean, I've sort of made that point before that I actually think

64
00:03:51.360 --> 00:03:54.479
when the new series does try to hit all the notes of a four-part

65
00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:56.939
story within a self-contained 45 minute episode.

66
00:03:57.000 --> 00:04:00.360
Most of the time, not all the time, but most of the time it sort

67
00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:02.280
of fails or it leaves you wanting more.

68
00:04:02.340 --> 00:04:03.840
It's just dissatisfying.

69
00:04:03.900 --> 00:04:08.159
Whereas this is a great example of, like the ones you mentioned, of

70
00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:11.639
writing an episode which is designed for the format that the show

71
00:04:11.639 --> 00:04:12.180
now is.

72
00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:13.979
It's a little vignette.

73
00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:16.379
It doesn't really talk about, I mean, yes, it sort of links a

74
00:04:16.379 --> 00:04:19.019
little bit with a Danny arc of the season, but broadly speaking, it

75
00:04:19.019 --> 00:04:21.120
is almost entirely self-contained.

76
00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:24.600
Yeah, I mean, we've been talking about that drink since episode

77
00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:26.220
two, haven't we?

78
00:04:26.279 --> 00:04:27.959
And now we finally see it.

79
00:04:28.019 --> 00:04:30.360
And so this is their 1st date.

80
00:04:30.420 --> 00:04:36.000
And the fact that that's kind of the environment within which all

81
00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:40.439
of this is happening, it's a little bit like time of the doctor

82
00:04:40.439 --> 00:04:43.439
where Clara's having a Christmas while the doctor's off doing sort

83
00:04:43.439 --> 00:04:44.639
of crazy adventures.

84
00:04:44.699 --> 00:04:48.180
And here we have the same thing, basically, this is their date and

85
00:04:48.180 --> 00:04:49.139
why it goes wrong.

86
00:04:49.199 --> 00:04:54.480
And in the meantime, we're doing all of this very, very odd stuff

87
00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:55.259
I think.

88
00:04:55.319 --> 00:04:58.199
Yeah, it's it's the right kind of timey whiminess.

89
00:04:58.259 --> 00:04:59.639
I think it's really, really cleverly done.

90
00:04:59.699 --> 00:05:03.660
Yeah, I agree with both of you so far.

91
00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:06.000
I think it's one of those.

92
00:05:06.060 --> 00:05:09.240
Well, I think it's one of those outsiders, thinking outside the

93
00:05:09.240 --> 00:05:13.199
box, um, episodes where it's just it, like you said, it's a

94
00:05:13.199 --> 00:05:13.500
story.

95
00:05:13.560 --> 00:05:15.000
It's not just formulaic.

96
00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:18.779
And you have that bit of the timey whiminess, but not enough that

97
00:05:18.779 --> 00:05:21.839
it's sort of, you like what the hell is going on kind of thing.

98
00:05:21.899 --> 00:05:26.639
Later on, don't ask me to fully explain the Danny Pink art because

99
00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:30.720
you can might need to explain that to me offline because it still

100
00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:31.860
fries my brain.

101
00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:35.339
I'm not entirely sure if it was properly resolved if, and if it

102
00:05:35.339 --> 00:05:39.240
ever did make sense, but um, yeah, I, I am confused.

103
00:05:39.300 --> 00:05:40.319
I admit to that.

104
00:05:40.379 --> 00:05:45.959
But I'd forgotten just how good Peter Capaldi is as well. and

105
00:05:45.959 --> 00:05:50.819
Jenna and just how well they both work together and bounce off

106
00:05:50.819 --> 00:05:53.579
each other and just how strong they are.

107
00:05:53.639 --> 00:05:57.660
There's definitely a lot of chemistry and they're both incredibly

108
00:05:57.660 --> 00:06:02.879
talented at their profession and I think Todd going harking back

109
00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:03.360
to Todd.

110
00:06:03.420 --> 00:06:06.600
He would definitely prove of Jenna's hair in this story.

111
00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:10.199
Yeah.

112
00:06:10.259 --> 00:06:15.839
Something I'm finding rewatching this 1st season of Capaldi is

113
00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:20.100
there's a lot more of a twinkle to him than I remember.

114
00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:22.860
Like, I remember him being really grumpy in his 1st season, and

115
00:06:22.860 --> 00:06:23.579
that's certainly there.

116
00:06:23.639 --> 00:06:28.439
But I got something totally new out of the 3 mirrors scene this

117
00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:28.620
time.

118
00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:32.579
Like, he's not being mean when he's asking about the 3 mirrors.

119
00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:33.720
He's genuinely confused.

120
00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:38.339
And there is some cut lines from the end of this scene where he's

121
00:06:38.339 --> 00:06:39.899
trying to persuade it to come on an adventure.

122
00:06:39.959 --> 00:06:42.959
And it sort of puts the, you've already taken your makeup line

123
00:06:42.959 --> 00:06:48.779
into context because after he says that and she refuses again, he

124
00:06:48.779 --> 00:06:51.839
says, you can come with me and have an adventure, you can sit here

125
00:06:51.839 --> 00:06:54.420
not having a date, which one is it?

126
00:06:54.420 --> 00:06:58.079
And she gets up and she says, I think underneath all this, you're

127
00:06:58.079 --> 00:06:58.920
trying to be nice.

128
00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:05.100
And I think from his perspective, he is because there's no nothing

129
00:07:05.100 --> 00:07:07.500
in these lines that couldn't be said by Matt Smith.

130
00:07:07.560 --> 00:07:09.060
He would just put a different spin on it.

131
00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:12.420
That's exactly, yeah. what I was thinking.

132
00:07:12.480 --> 00:07:14.220
And the same with the mirrors thing.

133
00:07:14.279 --> 00:07:18.180
You could absolutely put Matt Smith delivering those same lines

134
00:07:18.180 --> 00:07:20.459
and he would get away with that.

135
00:07:20.519 --> 00:07:24.180
And one of the things I found watching Capaldi was, I think he is

136
00:07:24.180 --> 00:07:27.420
a mesh of some of my favourite doctors, like there's a lot of Tom

137
00:07:27.420 --> 00:07:29.100
Baker in this story.

138
00:07:29.279 --> 00:07:31.500
There's definitely a lot of Matt Smith.

139
00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:35.639
And there's little elements of Sylvester at his best where he's

140
00:07:35.639 --> 00:07:40.079
just being a bit sort of manipulative and the, the, sort of the

141
00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:43.740
borderline edge of like, um, is this, this is just not nice.

142
00:07:44.759 --> 00:07:50.100
Yeah, so there's lots of, um, I was thinking like, you know, my

143
00:07:50.100 --> 00:07:52.920
other favourite doctor is, um, Peter Davidson.

144
00:07:52.980 --> 00:07:56.699
I'm thinking, could I see Peter Davidson in any of these things?

145
00:07:56.759 --> 00:08:00.360
I actually would have loved to have seen Peter Davidson written

146
00:08:00.360 --> 00:08:03.899
into a story that was a bit more off the beat like this.

147
00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:07.139
I could see him absolutely having that conversation with Tegan

148
00:08:07.139 --> 00:08:09.300
like say, if it was Tegan coming back and she was doing something

149
00:08:09.300 --> 00:08:13.019
in her personal life, him just going like, like, this is not

150
00:08:13.019 --> 00:08:13.500
important.

151
00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:14.339
Just come with me.

152
00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:17.639
I could absolutely see them doing that, but not a lot of the other

153
00:08:17.639 --> 00:08:18.060
things.

154
00:08:18.360 --> 00:08:20.339
I just drink no.

155
00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:23.459
Yeah, so it just proves that saying something in a Scottish accent

156
00:08:23.459 --> 00:08:24.360
suddenly makes it offensive.

157
00:08:34.860 --> 00:08:39.539
I'm just imagining now, with that, Davidson's doctor saying to

158
00:08:39.539 --> 00:08:40.980
Tegan, it's, well, it's all right.

159
00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:43.139
You haven't even done your hair, and she's got that big kind of

160
00:08:43.139 --> 00:08:43.980
rat's nest.

161
00:08:44.039 --> 00:08:45.419
She had...

162
00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:48.240
She's like, it doesn't just look like this.

163
00:08:48.840 --> 00:08:51.000
I spent hours doing that.

164
00:08:51.059 --> 00:08:56.460
I actually think the 3 mirrors line is so well done because it

165
00:08:56.460 --> 00:08:58.679
leads to the call back at the end of the episode.

166
00:08:58.740 --> 00:09:00.779
So when he sees the 3 mirrors.

167
00:09:00.840 --> 00:09:03.240
He goes, why can't you just turn your head?

168
00:09:03.240 --> 00:09:04.919
And that's a pretty funny line.

169
00:09:04.980 --> 00:09:09.360
Then we get Clara and Danny talking about Courtney and Courtney

170
00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:10.860
saying she can't concentrate on her work.

171
00:09:12.120 --> 00:09:14.759
Yeah, her face is too wide.

172
00:09:14.820 --> 00:09:18.299
And then later those 2 lines get combined in the perfect callback

173
00:09:18.299 --> 00:09:21.419
where Capaldi says her face is really wide.

174
00:09:21.480 --> 00:09:23.340
She needs 3 mirrors.

175
00:09:23.879 --> 00:09:25.919
It's so good.

176
00:09:25.980 --> 00:09:26.460
Yeah.

177
00:09:26.460 --> 00:09:30.899
And having, you know, someone who is well known in Britain for

178
00:09:30.899 --> 00:09:34.259
starring in a situation comedy, being written by a situation

179
00:09:34.259 --> 00:09:40.320
comedy writer who cut his teeth on romantic comedy means that this

180
00:09:40.320 --> 00:09:43.919
is absolutely the centre of what Moffatt is able to do.

181
00:09:43.980 --> 00:09:45.659
And this is the cheap episode.

182
00:09:45.720 --> 00:09:49.919
How many times does Moffat give himself an episode that's not, you

183
00:09:49.919 --> 00:09:52.379
know, the finale or the opener or whatever?

184
00:09:52.440 --> 00:09:53.759
This is like the beast below.

185
00:09:53.820 --> 00:09:58.679
It's like, what can I do in the middle of the series in a really

186
00:09:58.679 --> 00:10:01.559
cheap, otherwise unimportant episode?

187
00:10:01.620 --> 00:10:06.419
Moffatt did say in Doctor Who magazine that this, he assigned

188
00:10:06.419 --> 00:10:08.700
himself this episode to prove he was still a writer.

189
00:10:08.759 --> 00:10:10.259
Yeah, interesting.

190
00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:12.779
You know, give himself a series of limitations.

191
00:10:12.840 --> 00:10:15.539
And it was even more limited than his original script.

192
00:10:15.539 --> 00:10:18.720
Because in the original script, all the doctor's soliloquy at the

193
00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:22.259
beginning was actually in this library archive that he took Clara

194
00:10:22.259 --> 00:10:22.860
to later.

195
00:10:22.919 --> 00:10:25.559
And when he was redrafting the script, Douglas McKinnon said, well

196
00:10:25.559 --> 00:10:27.419
if you want to save money, let's just put it in the Tartars.

197
00:10:27.539 --> 00:10:32.399
And the other cost-saving measure was they did like location

198
00:10:32.399 --> 00:10:34.080
recies for the barn.

199
00:10:34.139 --> 00:10:38.940
And after about a week, Michael Pickwode said, I've still got the

200
00:10:38.940 --> 00:10:40.440
barn in storage.

201
00:10:40.500 --> 00:10:42.299
Like, I've got the shed in the shed.

202
00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:43.740
Why didn't why didn't you ask?

203
00:10:43.799 --> 00:10:47.820
So it ends up being even cheaper than it was originally

204
00:10:47.820 --> 00:10:49.200
considered.

205
00:10:49.259 --> 00:10:51.960
But it just goes to show, you know, you can have those limitations

206
00:10:51.960 --> 00:10:55.019
of budget and time and whatnot, and they can come up with

207
00:10:55.019 --> 00:10:55.919
something so brilliant.

208
00:10:55.980 --> 00:10:59.759
If it's a matter of knowing how to best utilise those

209
00:10:59.759 --> 00:11:00.840
limitations.

210
00:11:00.899 --> 00:11:05.100
And I think it, I think it's just, it sets a standard right from

211
00:11:05.100 --> 00:11:09.360
that opening sequence, the pre-credit sequence, which is a

212
00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:10.139
monologue.

213
00:11:10.200 --> 00:11:12.779
You know you're going to be watching something, which is quite

214
00:11:12.779 --> 00:11:16.919
different from a normal episode and it's done so well.

215
00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:20.340
And it's not like you sort of gradually discover like 5 or 10

216
00:11:20.340 --> 00:11:22.379
minutes in that, oh, this episode's going to be a bit of a weird

217
00:11:22.379 --> 00:11:23.580
one or a different one.

218
00:11:23.639 --> 00:11:25.980
You know that from the pre-credit sequence and it's just so

219
00:11:25.980 --> 00:11:26.639
brilliantly done.

220
00:11:26.700 --> 00:11:30.480
And it's the thing that Moffatt usually does, which is giving an

221
00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:35.879
in-story reason for the type of storytelling he's decided to do.

222
00:11:35.940 --> 00:11:39.539
So the fact, for instance, in a Christmas carol that the

223
00:11:39.539 --> 00:11:43.139
flashbacks to Catherine's childhood happen because the doctor has

224
00:11:43.139 --> 00:11:44.820
a time machine and he can go back there.

225
00:11:44.879 --> 00:11:49.379
Here, we have a monologue because the doctor has been on his own

226
00:11:49.379 --> 00:11:50.460
too long.

227
00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:52.919
He's going a little bit crazy.

228
00:11:52.980 --> 00:11:55.919
I mean, Clara says, how long have you been travelling on your own

229
00:11:55.919 --> 00:12:01.080
for, and he's theorising about why people talk aloud when there's

230
00:12:01.080 --> 00:12:03.240
no one else. there. so clever.

231
00:12:03.299 --> 00:12:06.000
One answer to that question is because they're doing the

232
00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:07.200
introductory monologue.

233
00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:14.940
But the other one is that there's some thing that accompanies you

234
00:12:14.940 --> 00:12:18.000
at all times and he wants to investigate it.

235
00:12:18.179 --> 00:12:19.559
Yeah.

236
00:12:19.620 --> 00:12:23.700
How did you actually find watching that introductory monologue?

237
00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:25.320
Because I actually found a little bit.

238
00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:27.899
I always felt a bit uncomfortable watching it.

239
00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:32.820
I just the way that, uh, I guess it's was, the delivery is very

240
00:12:32.820 --> 00:12:36.840
aggressive and sort of, Yeah, I was sort of always like, oh, I'm

241
00:12:36.840 --> 00:12:38.399
not sure if I like this doctor in this moment.

242
00:12:38.460 --> 00:12:41.879
And then the bit under the water with the fish, that sort of

243
00:12:41.879 --> 00:12:45.120
brought back a little bit of the comedy side of it, you know, like

244
00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:46.679
with the video.

245
00:12:46.740 --> 00:12:48.840
But the start, it was sort of like a bit.

246
00:12:48.899 --> 00:12:50.639
I'm not sure if I quite like this.

247
00:12:50.700 --> 00:12:54.539
It's just that little bit too intense, a bit aggressive, a bit

248
00:12:54.539 --> 00:12:55.139
unlikeable.

249
00:12:55.200 --> 00:12:59.220
But for the rest of the episode, I was absolutely on board.

250
00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:01.019
I didn't have any of those moments at all.

251
00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:04.559
No, I didn't feel that that it was too aggressive.

252
00:13:04.620 --> 00:13:06.480
I thought it was kind of direct.

253
00:13:06.539 --> 00:13:08.580
Like he really wants to know, he's trying to work it out.

254
00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:10.080
Why are things like this?

255
00:13:10.139 --> 00:13:12.840
I really love I really really love that sequence.

256
00:13:12.899 --> 00:13:18.840
I think that if this episode has flaws, and I do think it has some

257
00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:22.080
I think they're almost all Douglas McKinnon's fault.

258
00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:31.679
And so I think that opening sequence is not as scary as it should

259
00:13:31.679 --> 00:13:32.279
be.

260
00:13:32.340 --> 00:13:38.399
And I think the sequence at night in the bass in the future, he

261
00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:43.679
just pulls out his big box of gels and, you know, there's that

262
00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:46.379
line about mood lighting, but in fact, everything's dramatically

263
00:13:46.379 --> 00:13:50.700
overlit and that needs to be nighttime, I think, according to the

264
00:13:50.700 --> 00:13:51.179
script.

265
00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:52.019
It's nighttime.

266
00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:53.519
It should be under lit.

267
00:13:53.580 --> 00:13:56.279
So I think there are some directorial choices that don't quite

268
00:13:56.279 --> 00:14:01.200
work and I do think that that we don't get the sense.

269
00:14:01.259 --> 00:14:06.059
I think that the desire to give a monologue to camera is being

270
00:14:06.059 --> 00:14:10.620
emphasised when we also need to be learning that the doctor's

271
00:14:10.620 --> 00:14:14.759
actually losing it a bit and he's starting to fear his own

272
00:14:14.759 --> 00:14:15.539
shadow.

273
00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:18.000
And that works thematically, doesn't it?

274
00:14:18.059 --> 00:14:21.120
Because Clara discovers that the doctor has always been

275
00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:21.960
frightened.

276
00:14:22.019 --> 00:14:25.019
We need to see a hint of that here and we don't.

277
00:14:25.080 --> 00:14:27.299
He's a bit too imperious in that scene, I think.

278
00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:30.299
Yeah, I think it may have been more effective.

279
00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:35.220
If he was sort of being a bit funny with it, like he's riffing on

280
00:14:35.220 --> 00:14:41.220
the idea, but then the chalk disappears, you know, for horror, you

281
00:14:41.220 --> 00:14:42.360
need that falling action.

282
00:14:42.419 --> 00:14:46.500
You know, you need, oh my god, there's there's a sound.

283
00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:48.120
Oh, it's just a bus pulling up.

284
00:14:48.179 --> 00:14:51.000
It's not the it's not the leopard about to leap out and attack

285
00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:51.240
me.

286
00:14:51.539 --> 00:14:54.659
Yeah, so I think you're right, Fiona.

287
00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:58.019
I think, and this is a problem I have with Capaldi in this 1st

288
00:14:58.019 --> 00:15:00.840
series in that sometimes they go for the obvious direction of

289
00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:04.740
we've cast an older actor after a series of younger actors.

290
00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:08.159
We're going to make him grumpy and imperious.

291
00:15:08.220 --> 00:15:10.980
We're making him pixie like is more interesting.

292
00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:15.299
Yeah, um, that was another thing I really noticed in this season

293
00:15:15.299 --> 00:15:19.259
is I think this is the season definitely where I think I like him

294
00:15:19.259 --> 00:15:19.679
the most.

295
00:15:19.740 --> 00:15:22.379
For reasons like that.

296
00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:23.399
I feel in this one.

297
00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:28.799
He's not sort of so much a grumpy old man as he's just still, An

298
00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:32.580
older man, so he's not sort of of the same generation as, say, oh

299
00:15:32.580 --> 00:15:36.059
say Matt, you know, he's very much like, even though he's played

300
00:15:36.059 --> 00:15:39.120
as a very much an ancient character, especially towards the end.

301
00:15:39.179 --> 00:15:43.379
He is very much on the outside, like a real hipster, sort of like

302
00:15:43.379 --> 00:15:44.879
um, good looking guy.

303
00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:49.500
This one, like he's still actually like a good looking man, but

304
00:15:49.500 --> 00:15:52.679
he's like an older man, not an old man.

305
00:15:52.740 --> 00:15:57.000
And I think, and this is actually my favourite hair for him, which

306
00:15:57.000 --> 00:15:59.100
most people like him with more hair.

307
00:15:59.159 --> 00:16:03.539
I think later, I think it's just more in character with the

308
00:16:03.539 --> 00:16:06.360
personality just being a little bit more prickly kind of thing

309
00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:09.539
whereas later it just becomes almost a little bit try hard, like

310
00:16:09.539 --> 00:16:14.220
it sort of, I think later, it sort of gets towards, sometimes it's

311
00:16:14.220 --> 00:16:17.279
just sort of like it's almost trying to do the pert wee buffon, but

312
00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:18.120
not quite putting it off.

313
00:16:18.179 --> 00:16:19.980
Yes, it's like over the top doctorate.

314
00:16:20.039 --> 00:16:23.159
It's exactly the same reason I don't like Matt Smith's later

315
00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:23.580
costume.

316
00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:28.019
They're sort of leaning into those things that kind of failed in

317
00:16:28.019 --> 00:16:29.039
Doctor Who the 1st time round.

318
00:16:29.100 --> 00:16:32.700
It's the hair of an idiot thing, which is a Moffat line.

319
00:16:32.759 --> 00:16:35.820
That's how Liz Hen recognises them.

320
00:16:35.879 --> 00:16:39.120
But I was really, I mean, having not, as we just discussed earlier

321
00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:41.639
having not seen any of these episodes for a decade, I was really

322
00:16:41.639 --> 00:16:44.159
curious to see, so what do I think of Capaldi's performance

323
00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:46.139
because we were all talking at the time about, oh, is he too

324
00:16:46.139 --> 00:16:46.440
gruff?

325
00:16:46.500 --> 00:16:49.019
Is he too angry, is he too aggressive, et cetera, et cetera?

326
00:16:49.139 --> 00:16:52.860
And I found myself very pleasantly surprised that it's actually, it

327
00:16:52.860 --> 00:16:56.100
actually does pull back most of the time, uh, and I think the

328
00:16:56.100 --> 00:16:58.440
times it doesn't are yet to come, but most of the time it does

329
00:16:58.440 --> 00:17:02.879
pull back uh, and is is still on the twinkly side of nasty, if I

330
00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:03.360
can put it that way.

331
00:17:03.419 --> 00:17:06.359
I think that it's into the Dalek, isn't it?

332
00:17:06.420 --> 00:17:12.180
Where he is kind of a bit too brutal for some people.

333
00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:14.759
That's what Todd said, for instance.

334
00:17:14.819 --> 00:17:18.900
Whereas I actually think the great thing about those lines when

335
00:17:18.900 --> 00:17:22.619
he's being awful is that those lines are incredibly funny.

336
00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:23.819
Yes.

337
00:17:23.819 --> 00:17:24.960
Yeah, exactly.

338
00:17:25.019 --> 00:17:25.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

339
00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:29.279
Dual's knowledge of the arc has been thought of their digest

340
00:17:29.339 --> 00:17:31.559
digestion annotated yes.

341
00:17:31.619 --> 00:17:32.579
Yes, but exactly.

342
00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:35.160
I mean, you know, all those sorts of black humour has been

343
00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:36.000
throughout the program.

344
00:17:36.059 --> 00:17:37.140
Oh, yeah.

345
00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:41.519
And the other thing that's happening too, this season is that each

346
00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:45.779
episode seems to come at the idea of whether the doctor's a hero

347
00:17:45.779 --> 00:17:48.960
or not in a completely different kind of way.

348
00:17:49.019 --> 00:17:55.259
And so this time we're also investigating the doctor as a hero, but

349
00:17:55.259 --> 00:17:57.599
we're looking at it in quite a different way.

350
00:17:57.660 --> 00:18:01.680
And I think we're starting to draw the parallel that happened in

351
00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:06.240
episode two, between the doctor and Danny, in time for their big

352
00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:08.160
confrontation in a couple of weeks' time.

353
00:18:08.220 --> 00:18:15.059
And here we get to see both Danny and the doctor kind of being

354
00:18:15.059 --> 00:18:18.480
created by Clara in the same episode.

355
00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:19.440
Yes, exactly.

356
00:18:20.279 --> 00:18:24.660
Something I also found interesting about that having, you know

357
00:18:24.660 --> 00:18:29.819
watched all of Clara and remembering what happens to her.

358
00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:35.220
There's the do as you're told. comes up from both the doctor and

359
00:18:35.220 --> 00:18:42.480
Clara in this, and Clara with Rupert is like beat for beat, the

360
00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:43.680
doctor meeting Amelia.

361
00:18:44.099 --> 00:18:48.240
Like, you know, talking about fear and being scared and it's like

362
00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:49.559
oh, well, there's nothing to be scared of.

363
00:18:49.619 --> 00:18:52.500
And then something sits on the bed or the crack white and it's

364
00:18:52.500 --> 00:18:54.839
like, you know, when adults tell you everything's going to be fine

365
00:18:54.839 --> 00:18:57.599
and you know that they're like, well, everything's going to be

366
00:18:57.599 --> 00:18:57.779
fine.

367
00:18:57.839 --> 00:18:58.200
Yeah.

368
00:18:58.440 --> 00:19:03.299
But Jenna is so wonderful in those scenes.

369
00:19:03.299 --> 00:19:08.579
As is young Remy Gooding, who this is his only television.

370
00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:09.119
Really?

371
00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:12.900
He, at the same time, was in Matilda in the West End.

372
00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:16.980
But it looks like he didn't do much theatre and no television

373
00:19:16.980 --> 00:19:18.480
after this, which is a shame.

374
00:19:18.539 --> 00:19:19.440
He's a great actor.

375
00:19:19.500 --> 00:19:20.940
He's really good in this I think.

376
00:19:21.059 --> 00:19:21.960
No I think he's really good.

377
00:19:22.019 --> 00:19:25.980
But how scary is that scene where they're under the bed and

378
00:19:25.980 --> 00:19:29.700
there's just like the weight on, because you don't expect that to

379
00:19:29.700 --> 00:19:30.000
happen.

380
00:19:30.059 --> 00:19:33.839
I sort of, even when I was rewatching it, I expected to like

381
00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:37.319
something to either be under the bed or something to come and like

382
00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:41.160
poke them under the bed, but that's the last thing you expect is

383
00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:42.900
something to actually be on the bed.

384
00:19:42.900 --> 00:19:46.920
And like, it's properly, properly scary.

385
00:19:46.980 --> 00:19:50.700
Like you could easily have that like put into an adult sort of

386
00:19:50.700 --> 00:19:54.359
horror movie, a similar concept and like make it really, really

387
00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:54.660
scary.

388
00:19:55.019 --> 00:19:58.740
I think McKinnon actually gets that scene right.

389
00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:02.700
That's really his kind of best moment in the episode.

390
00:20:02.759 --> 00:20:06.059
And it's not just the visuals with the kind of vaguely out of

391
00:20:06.059 --> 00:20:09.240
focus thing in the background and making sure that it does move

392
00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:10.259
like a small child.

393
00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:13.740
Like it absolutely moves like a kid under the blanket.

394
00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:16.079
But it's also the sound, I think.

395
00:20:16.140 --> 00:20:20.579
And he gets the sound right both here and in the big scary scene

396
00:20:20.579 --> 00:20:24.299
at the end of the universe too, where I think he successfully

397
00:20:24.299 --> 00:20:27.480
creates some jump scares just through the use of sound.

398
00:20:27.539 --> 00:20:30.960
Yeah, no, the use of sound, especially in the end of the universe

399
00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:33.000
sequence is absolutely fantastic.

400
00:20:33.059 --> 00:20:33.960
It's interesting.

401
00:20:34.019 --> 00:20:40.380
I actually don't find the shape under the blanket to be good.

402
00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:45.059
Like, the whole point is that this thing is completely unseen or

403
00:20:45.059 --> 00:20:46.259
virtually completely unseen.

404
00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:48.059
Sometimes you see it out of the corner if you're right.

405
00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:50.759
And when we see it at other times where we see something that's

406
00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:52.859
out of focus and shadow, we like when it comes up and stands

407
00:20:52.859 --> 00:20:55.500
behind them when they're standing at the window, not looking at

408
00:20:55.500 --> 00:20:55.799
it.

409
00:20:55.859 --> 00:20:58.200
I think that's the good representation of it.

410
00:20:58.259 --> 00:21:01.500
But when it kind of feels like it's this solid shape under the

411
00:21:01.500 --> 00:21:04.259
bedclothes, I get what you're saying that, oh, it's like the shape

412
00:21:04.259 --> 00:21:05.819
of a small child, it moves like a small child.

413
00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:09.420
So it does sort of, it does make sense, but I just wish that we

414
00:21:09.420 --> 00:21:11.160
didn't see this big lump under the bedclothes.

415
00:21:11.220 --> 00:21:14.519
I wish it had been more kind of, is it actually there or is it to

416
00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:15.720
sort of...

417
00:21:15.779 --> 00:21:21.539
What's interesting about this scene is many moons ago.

418
00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:24.539
I recorded a podcast with J.R.

419
00:21:24.539 --> 00:21:26.819
Southall, and I don't know if it was his podcast or we were

420
00:21:26.819 --> 00:21:30.359
guesting on another one, but J.R. and I got into quite a heated

421
00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:33.900
debate as to whether there was a creature or whether it just was

422
00:21:33.900 --> 00:21:35.880
one of the other kids in the orphanage.

423
00:21:35.940 --> 00:21:38.819
And I'm on the creature side of things.

424
00:21:38.819 --> 00:21:42.059
And JR was like, no, the whole point of the story is there isn't a

425
00:21:42.059 --> 00:21:42.420
creature.

426
00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:45.059
And we were just going back and forth like that.

427
00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:46.920
Oh, what are the stories that there is a creature?

428
00:21:46.980 --> 00:21:48.539
Well, is...

429
00:21:48.539 --> 00:21:49.019
That's the thing.

430
00:21:49.380 --> 00:21:52.920
Watching this time, I was more like, oh, no, no, it is

431
00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:57.599
deliberately ambiguous and reading up on Stephen Moffat's writing

432
00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:58.200
process.

433
00:21:58.259 --> 00:22:02.339
He's like, I don't I don't know what the answer is.

434
00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:03.539
I'm not telling you.

435
00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:05.220
So, you know, that's fair enough.

436
00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:09.960
But interestingly enough, the real life person under there is

437
00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:15.240
Kieran Shah who we recently saw on Bondfinger in Bull'seye as a

438
00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:16.380
mob boss.

439
00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:16.920
Oh my god.

440
00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:22.079
So the thing is with Moffat is there is no fact of the matter

441
00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:24.539
because all there is is the TV show.

442
00:22:24.599 --> 00:22:28.019
It's not representing something that goes on in the world.

443
00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:31.740
So there's no answer to the question and that's deliberate.

444
00:22:31.799 --> 00:22:36.359
I think that we do discover there's a creature, but I think that

445
00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:41.400
that creature is fear or something like that because, you know

446
00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:43.680
Stephen Moffat has always said the Doctor Who takes place under

447
00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:45.000
your bed, right?

448
00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:47.880
And he reuses things that he's used before.

449
00:22:47.940 --> 00:22:52.500
So we had the clockwork droid under the bed and girl in the

450
00:22:52.500 --> 00:22:52.920
fireplace.

451
00:22:52.980 --> 00:22:57.119
We had the thing in the corner of your eye in the 11th hour.

452
00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:03.000
We've had the Vashtanarada, which are, you know, monsters that

453
00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:06.299
live in the shadows and exist everywhere.

454
00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:08.519
And so that's Moffat's thing.

455
00:23:08.579 --> 00:23:14.160
Moffat is about the scares, those indefinable scares that take

456
00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:16.859
place when you're alone or when you're not paying close attention

457
00:23:16.859 --> 00:23:17.940
and so on.

458
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:20.579
And here he's absolutely doing that.

459
00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:25.259
This is the kind of thing, it's what causes you to feel that way.

460
00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:27.539
What causes those everyday feelings.

461
00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:31.680
And then the episode largely just ends up being about fear.

462
00:23:31.980 --> 00:23:35.160
I was going to say midnight as well.

463
00:23:35.220 --> 00:23:39.480
Midnight is Russell T. It's not actually a Stephen Mothman.

464
00:23:39.480 --> 00:23:41.759
But he's stealing from the...

465
00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:44.039
Yeah, well, absolutely.

466
00:23:44.099 --> 00:23:47.940
And I'm a huge fan of midnight, I think that is outstanding.

467
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:51.900
And the scene, especially in the spaceship later on, is very

468
00:23:51.900 --> 00:23:54.480
similar to the premise of the night.

469
00:23:54.539 --> 00:23:57.059
Yes.

470
00:23:57.059 --> 00:23:58.920
And also Blair Witch Project, that movie.

471
00:23:58.980 --> 00:24:01.559
There's a lot of elements to that, the fact that you never

472
00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:05.039
actually see something, but you're really scared by what is

473
00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:06.000
happening off screen.

474
00:24:06.059 --> 00:24:10.920
Um, I think we've got, uh, I'm sorry, to hark back to the body

475
00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:12.359
under the blanket as such.

476
00:24:12.420 --> 00:24:15.960
But I think one of the weaknesses is that from our viewer

477
00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:19.799
perspective is where it's not quite clear whether the size of the

478
00:24:19.799 --> 00:24:24.059
person or thing under the blanket is a child size or an adult

479
00:24:24.059 --> 00:24:24.599
size.

480
00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:28.200
Because see, if it was obvious it was a child, then you would say

481
00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:31.019
oh, maybe it is another kid playing a joke.

482
00:24:31.079 --> 00:24:35.279
But my on the rewatch, my initial thing was like, when's Clara

483
00:24:35.279 --> 00:24:39.420
going to say, oh, doctor, like say it's the doctor, like mucking

484
00:24:39.420 --> 00:24:40.319
about and playing a joke?

485
00:24:40.380 --> 00:24:43.680
Like, expect the doctor to sort of pull back the blanket and say

486
00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:45.180
ha ha, how funny am I?

487
00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:47.640
Um which doesn't, of course, happen.

488
00:24:47.700 --> 00:24:50.880
So I think that's maybe a weakness is you're not quite sure how

489
00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:52.200
big the object is.

490
00:24:53.220 --> 00:24:57.420
Especially when, you know, the doctor has just nicked poor Reg's

491
00:24:57.420 --> 00:24:57.779
coffee.

492
00:24:57.839 --> 00:24:58.680
God, that's funny.

493
00:24:58.740 --> 00:25:00.359
That is so brilliant.

494
00:25:00.420 --> 00:25:03.420
And I noticed 2 weird things about that scene.

495
00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:07.200
So, one, when the doctor's talking about the coffee and he's about

496
00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:11.279
to nick it, if you listen to the music, it sounds remarkably like

497
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:15.059
the teleport effect from Nerva Beacon, which is really, really

498
00:25:15.059 --> 00:25:15.539
weird.

499
00:25:15.539 --> 00:25:21.000
But also, I looked up the actor who plays Reg, who is Robert

500
00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:21.660
Goodman.

501
00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:25.140
Because really there's only 2 guest actors in this, there's Robert

502
00:25:25.140 --> 00:25:26.400
Goodman and Remy Gooding.

503
00:25:26.460 --> 00:25:28.559
Oh my god, there's the same initials.

504
00:25:28.619 --> 00:25:32.700
But he actually had a bunch of uncredited roles in the classic

505
00:25:32.700 --> 00:25:33.299
series.

506
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:37.259
Starting off with being a mandrel in the nightmare of Eden.

507
00:25:37.319 --> 00:25:38.880
Yes, me.

508
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:42.299
But, you know, then he's then he's aboard the starliner in full

509
00:25:42.299 --> 00:25:42.779
circle.

510
00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:44.579
He's on Gallifray.

511
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:45.839
Arc of Infinity.

512
00:25:45.900 --> 00:25:46.799
Well, that was forgettable for him.

513
00:25:46.859 --> 00:25:49.140
Yeah, party get an enlightenment.

514
00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:49.440
Wow.

515
00:25:49.500 --> 00:25:49.859
Good.

516
00:25:49.859 --> 00:25:50.160
Yep.

517
00:25:50.220 --> 00:25:51.900
And he's in terror of the verboids.

518
00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:52.740
It just says Loder.

519
00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:56.160
I choose to believe he's the one who almost throws Bonnie Langford

520
00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:57.000
in the pulverizer.

521
00:25:57.059 --> 00:25:58.259
Yes, let's hope.

522
00:25:58.380 --> 00:26:01.259
So he totally deserves his coffee.

523
00:26:01.319 --> 00:26:03.720
Well, who says you can't make it a career out of being an extra.

524
00:26:03.779 --> 00:26:04.619
Yes.

525
00:26:04.619 --> 00:26:06.000
He's really great.

526
00:26:06.119 --> 00:26:10.319
And it's the doctor also being kind of super short story, doctor

527
00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:13.980
just sort of turning up, saying a few enigmatic things, stealing a

528
00:26:13.980 --> 00:26:14.339
coffee.

529
00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:16.559
And again, that's terrifically well directed.

530
00:26:16.619 --> 00:26:21.299
We talked last week about the spoon suddenly coming into shot when

531
00:26:21.299 --> 00:26:24.240
the doctors in the Tartars before he uses them to fight Robin

532
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:24.720
Hood.

533
00:26:24.779 --> 00:26:28.680
Here, he's just walking along and then the coffee cup comes into

534
00:26:28.680 --> 00:26:29.400
shop.

535
00:26:30.779 --> 00:26:32.640
So tremendous.

536
00:26:32.700 --> 00:26:37.619
It also kind of reminds me of Incursive Fenrick, Paul Perkins is

537
00:26:37.619 --> 00:26:41.519
patrolling and the doctor startles him, but he's just like, A's in

538
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:42.059
the dark watching.

539
00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:45.599
Perkins looks around like, is this even scripted?

540
00:26:45.660 --> 00:26:46.799
What's going on?

541
00:27:01.859 --> 00:27:05.519
I think that stuff, where he's insulting her appearance.

542
00:27:05.579 --> 00:27:09.420
We've sort of said this before actually works really well because

543
00:27:09.420 --> 00:27:10.859
she's not offended by it.

544
00:27:10.920 --> 00:27:13.440
Yeah, it's exactly because she just knows that he's an idiot.

545
00:27:13.559 --> 00:27:14.460
Yes, that's right.

546
00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:17.160
And there's that bit where he drops her off at the date the 2nd

547
00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:17.400
time.

548
00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:21.720
Oh, the 1st time he drops her off at the date and she sees herself

549
00:27:21.720 --> 00:27:28.500
leaving and admires her own backside and he doesn't see her and

550
00:27:28.500 --> 00:27:30.000
she's not at all phased by that.

551
00:27:30.059 --> 00:27:30.900
Yes.

552
00:27:30.900 --> 00:27:36.960
So yeah, let's talk about the date because this is Moffat doing

553
00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:39.839
what he did in Into the Dalek.

554
00:27:39.900 --> 00:27:43.740
So you remember that we have the 1st interaction between Danny and

555
00:27:43.740 --> 00:27:49.859
Clara keeps being intercart with him, you know, bitterly

556
00:27:49.859 --> 00:27:53.519
regretting not having properly asked her out and, you know, finding

557
00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:56.339
a classroom to bang his head on the table and stuff like that.

558
00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:59.160
And which is just the life of a teacher.

559
00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:01.680
Oh, more of that later.

560
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:07.859
But that date, the way that we intercut in this sort of very press

561
00:28:07.859 --> 00:28:12.240
gangway, we intercut between her coming home after the dates

562
00:28:12.240 --> 00:28:16.200
failed and us watching the date slowly fail.

563
00:28:16.259 --> 00:28:20.099
And I think that that's absolutely brilliant and sort of terribly

564
00:28:20.099 --> 00:28:21.119
funny.

565
00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:25.559
And he manages to tie it into the theme of the thing as well.

566
00:28:25.619 --> 00:28:27.299
Yes, very clever.

567
00:28:27.299 --> 00:28:31.500
After the discovery about fear, she's able to go back and fix the

568
00:28:31.500 --> 00:28:35.160
date and make sure that it happens properly after it fails twice.

569
00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:37.799
Yes, but then an astronaut comes in.

570
00:28:38.099 --> 00:28:42.720
I don't know that the, I don't know that the date actually

571
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:44.160
succeeds the 2nd time round.

572
00:28:44.220 --> 00:28:44.940
It just fails differently.

573
00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:49.259
No, no, but I mean, then she goes over to his place at the end and

574
00:28:49.259 --> 00:28:51.359
we actually get the date succeeding.

575
00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:53.700
But also, don't you love the fact that daddy says when he sits

576
00:28:53.700 --> 00:28:55.200
down, what did you do with your jacket?

577
00:28:55.259 --> 00:28:56.039
You had a jacket.

578
00:28:56.099 --> 00:28:58.680
It's like it's like Brian when we're watching a film.

579
00:28:58.740 --> 00:29:00.599
He'll spot all those kind of continuity eras.

580
00:29:00.660 --> 00:29:02.279
Like, the actress was wearing a jacket before.

581
00:29:02.339 --> 00:29:07.680
Well, he actually spots it in into the Dalek as well because she

582
00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:10.559
goes into the stationary cupboard or whatever, goes on an

583
00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:14.339
adventure with a doctor, falls in a lot of goo, changes her outfit

584
00:29:14.339 --> 00:29:17.099
then comes out, and he says you've changed clothes.

585
00:29:17.819 --> 00:29:21.119
We already know that he can spot that.

586
00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:25.380
And of course, in a couple of weeks time, that's going to be a

587
00:29:25.380 --> 00:29:29.819
massive comedy bit at the beginning of the episode in one of my

588
00:29:29.819 --> 00:29:32.220
favourite sequences of the entire series.

589
00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:33.539
But I really like it.

590
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:36.779
I think this comes up sort of next week as well with Time Heist.

591
00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:40.319
We're leaning back into this idea that the doctor's not so much

592
00:29:40.319 --> 00:29:43.079
asexual, but the fact that he just doesn't understand human

593
00:29:43.079 --> 00:29:46.920
sexuality, he doesn't understand the ridiculously over the top

594
00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:48.960
mating rituals, which we're getting.

595
00:29:49.019 --> 00:29:52.500
It goes back to that sort of the classic series if the doctor kind

596
00:29:52.500 --> 00:29:54.180
of not really understanding. know, you're a very beautiful woman

597
00:29:54.180 --> 00:29:54.539
probably.

598
00:29:55.019 --> 00:29:59.940
Whereas, so it moves away from that kind of Russell T era, and, you

599
00:29:59.940 --> 00:30:02.400
know, it spills over to the Matt Smith era as the doctor being a

600
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:05.160
kind of an actual sexual character or a character with a

601
00:30:05.160 --> 00:30:05.579
sexuality.

602
00:30:05.700 --> 00:30:08.880
Well, remember that you've got Matt Smith is a bit like that as

603
00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:11.339
well, and he can't tell that Amy's pregnant, for instance.

604
00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:12.839
He can't tell the name he's pregnant?

605
00:30:12.900 --> 00:30:15.660
No, but he can still, he still develops what is quite clearly a

606
00:30:15.660 --> 00:30:17.099
magic attachment with River.

607
00:30:17.160 --> 00:30:20.759
You cannot imagine Capaldi doing this despite what happens, you

608
00:30:20.759 --> 00:30:20.880
know.

609
00:30:20.940 --> 00:30:21.660
He will, though.

610
00:30:21.660 --> 00:30:25.920
Yeah, but I just like seeing that song, you know, the doctor is an

611
00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:28.079
alien, you know, and we're a different species.

612
00:30:28.140 --> 00:30:29.279
He's not going to understand us.

613
00:30:35.460 --> 00:30:38.160
Capaldi with Clara.

614
00:30:38.220 --> 00:30:41.039
Like, I just love the sort of interaction, like, it is that sort

615
00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:44.819
of bit of that grumpiness, and he can be like quite hard on her

616
00:30:44.819 --> 00:30:48.420
but one of the things that he's very strong about is there's so

617
00:30:48.420 --> 00:30:52.799
much going on in his eyes and on his face all the time without him

618
00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:57.059
opening his mouth, you don't so much see in this episode, but it's

619
00:30:57.059 --> 00:30:58.920
throughout sort of his time with Clara.

620
00:30:58.980 --> 00:31:02.700
He has a special I love Clara look that he'll kind of give her

621
00:31:02.700 --> 00:31:07.380
when he she's not looking, so she never gets to see it.

622
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:11.160
We only get to see it, but it just shows without him saying a word

623
00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:14.160
how much he absolutely does love her.

624
00:31:14.220 --> 00:31:16.319
And I love the fact that it is.

625
00:31:16.380 --> 00:31:17.400
It's a very much.

626
00:31:17.460 --> 00:31:21.900
He loves her, but he's not interested in getting into her pants in

627
00:31:21.900 --> 00:31:25.500
any way, shape or form, like it's completely non-sexual, which is

628
00:31:25.500 --> 00:31:28.500
why, you know, in that later, Matt Smith thing with the whole

629
00:31:28.500 --> 00:31:32.099
skirt too type thing was, which has a bit got a bit icky.

630
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:36.240
Um, because yeah, it's absolutely like he just loves her.

631
00:31:36.299 --> 00:31:40.019
And that gets played out sort of at the end of the season where he

632
00:31:40.019 --> 00:31:41.460
just, you know, has the line.

633
00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:45.480
We won't talk about that spoilers, but it comes to, it comes out

634
00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:47.460
later in their episodes together.

635
00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:48.720
Yeah.

636
00:31:48.779 --> 00:31:51.539
You sort of pick up on the fact that Capaldi has an incredibly

637
00:31:51.539 --> 00:31:55.799
expressive face, not just in the eyebrows, but all parts of his

638
00:31:55.799 --> 00:31:56.220
face.

639
00:31:56.279 --> 00:31:57.900
There a lot of character there, and he doesn't use it.

640
00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:01.319
Whilst you sometimes use it in a slight aestagia way than where

641
00:32:01.319 --> 00:32:04.140
otherwise you used to from other actors, It never feels over the

642
00:32:04.140 --> 00:32:04.380
top.

643
00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:06.000
It never feels like he's cheering the scenery.

644
00:32:06.059 --> 00:32:07.740
It's sort of very much like Tom.

645
00:32:07.799 --> 00:32:10.799
Tom has this incredibly expressive face, which you can do so much

646
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:13.140
with without overdoing it either.

647
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:20.460
It's something that actually reminds me of Hartnell and Barbara in

648
00:32:20.460 --> 00:32:24.539
that, I think, sort of after the edge of destruction, when Barbara

649
00:32:24.539 --> 00:32:29.640
tells him what an utter bastard he is, he actually starts to adore

650
00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:30.000
her.

651
00:32:30.059 --> 00:32:33.240
And, you know, it's even when he, even after they have their

652
00:32:33.240 --> 00:32:36.240
shouting match of the Aztecs, he's immediately giving her a hug

653
00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:38.819
and saying, I understand what you're trying to do, et cetera.

654
00:32:38.940 --> 00:32:41.819
And of all things.

655
00:32:41.880 --> 00:32:45.900
Strangely, it also reminds me of the relationship between Neelix

656
00:32:45.900 --> 00:32:47.759
and Captain Janeway on Voyager.

657
00:32:47.819 --> 00:32:53.819
It's like once once the very ill-advised relationship with Kess is

658
00:32:53.819 --> 00:32:58.799
no longer there, whenever, if you watch it, whenever Neelix and

659
00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:01.319
Janeway have a scene, especially where it's just the 2 of them

660
00:33:01.319 --> 00:33:05.880
there's this look of adoration and admiration on Ethan Phillips's

661
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:09.960
face, which culminates in like the 2nd last episode of Voyager

662
00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:13.740
where Neelix leaves, and there's a wonderful quiet scene between

663
00:33:13.740 --> 00:33:16.980
the 2 of them talking about how much they've developed in each

664
00:33:16.980 --> 00:33:17.700
other's company.

665
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:22.079
And it is a new direction for the show to go in because of course

666
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:25.500
you know, we had rose and the doctor being in love.

667
00:33:25.559 --> 00:33:28.019
We had the unrequited thing with Martha.

668
00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:30.119
We had the just mates thing with Donna.

669
00:33:30.180 --> 00:33:34.200
We had sort of Amy's very highly charged sexuality.

670
00:33:34.259 --> 00:33:38.519
And then we had, as you say, Fiona, the slightly uncomfortable

671
00:33:38.519 --> 00:33:42.539
thing with Matt Smith and Clara, where, you know, he's stalking

672
00:33:42.539 --> 00:33:45.420
her all her life because he thinks she's a weapon, but also she's

673
00:33:45.420 --> 00:33:47.160
wearing a skirt that's just a bit too.

674
00:33:47.220 --> 00:33:48.000
No, don't say that.

675
00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:55.019
Whereas yet, now we get this a really great and interesting and

676
00:33:55.019 --> 00:34:00.660
multifaceted relationship and I actually found out this little

677
00:34:00.660 --> 00:34:04.559
story about filming the date scene where he drops her off again.

678
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:09.780
The night before, a woman and her children had just stumbled

679
00:34:09.780 --> 00:34:13.320
across the filming, and her children were big fans of the program

680
00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:18.360
including her five-year-old daughter, Roxanne, who was autistic

681
00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:22.380
and had been very concerned since the regeneration because she

682
00:34:22.380 --> 00:34:24.780
loved Matt Smith's doctor, and she was worried the doctor wouldn't

683
00:34:24.780 --> 00:34:26.099
want to have adventures with her anymore.

684
00:34:27.059 --> 00:34:32.159
So when they had stumbled across the filming, it was the night

685
00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:36.300
before in the restaurant, so Capaldi wasn't there and the

686
00:34:36.300 --> 00:34:40.320
production team kind of said to, well, look, um, you might want to

687
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:41.579
come back tomorrow if you can.

688
00:34:41.699 --> 00:34:46.559
So when they did, they brought the family through and took them to

689
00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:47.699
meet Peter and Jenna.

690
00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:51.360
So in her Dalek costume, Roxanne was met on Tuesday night by

691
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:55.199
Douglas McKinnon, who took the family to meet Peter Capaldi and

692
00:34:55.199 --> 00:34:59.880
Jenna Coleman, Peter Capaldi showed her a photo on his phone of

693
00:34:59.880 --> 00:35:05.340
himself with Matt and Jenna filming the regeneration and said to

694
00:35:05.340 --> 00:35:09.840
her, look, Matt and Jenna have said it's okay for me to be the

695
00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:10.320
doctor.

696
00:35:10.380 --> 00:35:14.460
So I hope you think it will be okay for me to be the doctor too.

697
00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:18.179
And I mean, isn't that sweet?

698
00:35:18.239 --> 00:35:20.699
That was, you know, that was off Peter's own bat.

699
00:35:22.500 --> 00:35:24.420
But he does that.

700
00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:27.059
That's the other thing about Peter Capoldi as the doctor.

701
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:31.559
Part of the job is to be an ambassador.

702
00:35:31.619 --> 00:35:35.760
And I think people, people like David Tennant was superb at it.

703
00:35:35.820 --> 00:35:39.659
Jody Whittaker was extremely good at it. was superb as well.

704
00:35:39.719 --> 00:35:43.139
But Capaldi doesn't get enough praise for his warmth and

705
00:35:43.139 --> 00:35:44.880
generosity and all of that.

706
00:35:44.940 --> 00:35:49.619
I remember seeing him at one of those Comic-Con, whatever they're

707
00:35:49.619 --> 00:35:52.440
called things that we've been to once or twice, and we were in the

708
00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:55.500
queue of photographs, and there was sort of a family with quite

709
00:35:55.500 --> 00:35:59.039
young kids that were getting the photograph with Capaldi, and the

710
00:35:59.039 --> 00:36:00.360
little kid was obviously very little.

711
00:36:00.420 --> 00:36:03.900
And he, when he, the photographer was about to be taken and he

712
00:36:03.900 --> 00:36:07.739
said, wait, wait. and he knelt down to be with the little kid

713
00:36:07.739 --> 00:36:10.679
holding out the Sonic screwdriver to make the kid the centre of

714
00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:10.980
attention.

715
00:36:11.039 --> 00:36:13.019
It was like, and Brian and I just turned to each other and said

716
00:36:13.019 --> 00:36:13.500
he's good.

717
00:36:13.559 --> 00:36:15.179
He knows what he's doing.

718
00:36:15.239 --> 00:36:19.380
And this is one of 100s of photographs being taken in this in

719
00:36:19.380 --> 00:36:21.659
rapid succession and he cared about every single one of them.

720
00:36:21.719 --> 00:36:25.920
I mean, we thought we had it good when David Tennant was the

721
00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:31.260
doctor and he would crack jokes about monoids. on the commentary

722
00:36:31.260 --> 00:36:31.739
tracks.

723
00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:35.159
But, I mean, Capaldi's a whole other level, I think, like that.

724
00:36:35.219 --> 00:36:36.960
I must listen to his comic.

725
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:41.400
I actually met Peter at the same convention.

726
00:36:41.460 --> 00:36:46.019
Simon was at and he was just an absolute gentleman, really sweet

727
00:36:46.019 --> 00:36:52.079
and kind and he genuinely cared that my experience meeting him was

728
00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:55.739
a +one and I saw that same evidence that everybody.

729
00:36:55.800 --> 00:37:00.300
Um, the other example I've seen of that was at the Excel one for

730
00:37:00.300 --> 00:37:02.400
the 50th where I met Matt Smith.

731
00:37:02.460 --> 00:37:06.780
And you could, it was quite clear that he was exhausted and it was

732
00:37:06.780 --> 00:37:12.780
massive crowds, really long day and every time a young child came

733
00:37:12.780 --> 00:37:16.380
up to have a photo with him, he would just go into character and

734
00:37:16.380 --> 00:37:20.519
just put so much energy in and just be the doctor for them.

735
00:37:20.579 --> 00:37:24.239
And I was just like, just for that moment, I said you have my

736
00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:25.079
heart forever.

737
00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:28.980
Like it was just, um, that's the sort of thing money can't buy.

738
00:37:35.039 --> 00:37:39.539
Obviously, the Moffat thing of having an astronaut walk into the

739
00:37:39.539 --> 00:37:45.360
restaurant while you're on a date is only made more moffity by the

740
00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:48.900
fact that it's Samuel Anderson in the spacesuit.

741
00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:49.500
Yes.

742
00:37:49.500 --> 00:37:55.980
And you said before, Fiona, about Awson Pink, and where does he

743
00:37:55.980 --> 00:37:56.340
come from?

744
00:37:56.400 --> 00:38:02.639
So he's clearly Danny and Clara's great, great, great or great

745
00:38:02.639 --> 00:38:03.900
great grandson, something like that.

746
00:38:03.960 --> 00:38:05.400
Was it about 100 years in grand, right?

747
00:38:05.460 --> 00:38:10.559
Great grandson because he says that the soldier toy is an heirloom

748
00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:11.519
from my grandmother.

749
00:38:11.639 --> 00:38:13.800
Well, my great grandmother used to tell stories about time

750
00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:14.159
travel.

751
00:38:14.219 --> 00:38:15.780
Yes, yes, yes, yes.

752
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:19.019
So at this point, Danny's not dead.

753
00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:23.579
And so the future, uh...

754
00:38:23.579 --> 00:38:24.840
Spoiler alert, David.

755
00:38:26.099 --> 00:38:32.280
And they do have sex pretty much immediately once the credits

756
00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:34.019
start rolling, we think, in this episode.

757
00:38:34.079 --> 00:38:35.039
Who can blame them?

758
00:38:35.099 --> 00:38:37.800
No, we're both incredibly good looking young people.

759
00:38:38.579 --> 00:38:41.039
So I think that that's it.

760
00:38:41.099 --> 00:38:45.840
We're not going to judge, but also I think too, it's, I mean

761
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:48.780
Moffat must have been already aware of what he was going to do

762
00:38:48.780 --> 00:38:50.280
with Danny in episode 11.

763
00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:54.840
So he's throwing us off the scent, I think, or making that more

764
00:38:54.840 --> 00:38:55.980
shocking and surprising.

765
00:38:56.039 --> 00:38:58.739
Or possibly just not caring that that's an inconsistency.

766
00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:00.059
Yeah, well, there's that too.

767
00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:01.800
And it is a timey whimey thing at the moment.

768
00:39:01.860 --> 00:39:03.360
They're both alive. one possible future.

769
00:39:03.420 --> 00:39:03.840
Exactly.

770
00:39:03.900 --> 00:39:07.679
And, you know, we've brought back a companion's boyfriend from the

771
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:11.699
dead before several times because we like half a dog.

772
00:39:11.940 --> 00:39:14.099
It could happen again.

773
00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:16.559
But as you've sort of said, Nathan, before.

774
00:39:16.619 --> 00:39:18.239
I mean, it would kind of implied before.

775
00:39:18.300 --> 00:39:21.780
I don't want anything like that to get in the way of a really good

776
00:39:21.780 --> 00:39:22.199
story.

777
00:39:22.260 --> 00:39:23.519
I really got back into the story.

778
00:39:23.579 --> 00:39:25.860
I don't think it matters. as I said there are many possible

779
00:39:25.860 --> 00:39:26.219
futures.

780
00:39:26.340 --> 00:39:27.780
Time can be rewritten.

781
00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:32.280
And so that soldier is important because the soldier, there's that

782
00:39:32.280 --> 00:39:37.440
moment where they're with Rupert and Rupert says that that toy is

783
00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:39.239
broken, it doesn't even have a gun.

784
00:39:39.239 --> 00:39:45.119
And Clara, describing the doctor, says he's so brave that he

785
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:46.619
doesn't even need a gun.

786
00:39:46.739 --> 00:39:50.579
And so that's identified with the doctor, but it's also identified

787
00:39:50.579 --> 00:39:53.460
with Danny because that's where Danny gets his name from.

788
00:39:53.519 --> 00:39:57.300
And there's that hilarious throwaway line in the TARDIS where the

789
00:39:57.300 --> 00:40:01.139
doctor says, oh, I just gave him a dream about being Dan the

790
00:40:01.139 --> 00:40:01.920
soldier man.

791
00:40:05.219 --> 00:40:10.199
And you've got Janet kind of absolutely horrified by the fact that

792
00:40:10.199 --> 00:40:15.539
he had being a soldier was his fault and his idea.

793
00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:18.539
And that comes back to something you were saying, Fiona, in that

794
00:40:18.539 --> 00:40:22.860
Clara head desks onto the console and the doctor is beside himself

795
00:40:22.860 --> 00:40:23.579
with worry.

796
00:40:23.639 --> 00:40:26.519
But the 2nd she looks at him again, his face goes new.

797
00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:29.579
But when she can't see him, he's like, oh, my God, are you all

798
00:40:29.579 --> 00:40:30.000
right?

799
00:40:30.059 --> 00:40:30.780
What's happened?

800
00:40:30.780 --> 00:40:31.260
What's happened?

801
00:40:31.260 --> 00:40:35.099
The other brilliant thing about that scene is the doctor, you know

802
00:40:35.099 --> 00:40:37.559
constantly going, you know, don't lie to the child and Clara, shut

803
00:40:37.559 --> 00:40:38.940
up. sit down.

804
00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:43.440
And there was another line, almost ripped straight from coupling

805
00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:47.280
there where Clara turns around and says to the doctor, doctor, sit

806
00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:48.960
on it until it stops talking.

807
00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:54.300
And the doctor sits down for a 2nd and then goes, I just got

808
00:40:54.300 --> 00:40:54.539
that.

809
00:40:54.599 --> 00:40:56.400
That's really, really good.

810
00:40:57.659 --> 00:41:01.500
Can I just touch on the performance that we have there as awesome

811
00:41:01.500 --> 00:41:06.480
Pink and how well done it is that he manages to create a

812
00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:09.420
completely separate character who is effectively supposed to be

813
00:41:09.420 --> 00:41:13.019
the same descendant of the main character who's playing very, very

814
00:41:13.019 --> 00:41:16.079
nice and there's a lot of exhaustion in that performance and a lot

815
00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:18.960
of fear and internal conflict.

816
00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:20.699
It's really, really suddenly done.

817
00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:24.539
And going back to something you were saying earlier about, into

818
00:41:24.539 --> 00:41:26.760
the Dalek, Nathan, where, you know, he's quite callous and

819
00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:27.179
whatnot.

820
00:41:27.239 --> 00:41:32.639
He does kind of force Orson into telling him a little bit more

821
00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:34.500
about, you know, there's something outside.

822
00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:38.159
But when Mawson says, don't make me stay here another night, the

823
00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:39.539
doctor puts him in the TARDIS.

824
00:41:39.599 --> 00:41:44.519
You know, he doesn't make Orson live through the night again in

825
00:41:44.519 --> 00:41:49.380
order to satisfy his curiosity, which it is an improvement of the

826
00:41:49.380 --> 00:41:52.500
character, and it doesn't take Clara saying to him, oh, can't you

827
00:41:52.500 --> 00:41:54.239
see he's upset, et cetera, et cetera.

828
00:41:54.300 --> 00:41:58.860
Samuel Anderson quite enjoyed playing both parts and at his photo

829
00:41:58.860 --> 00:42:01.559
shoot for Awson Pink, he said, I look like Tom Jones.

830
00:42:03.059 --> 00:42:18.599
Yeah In that spaceship, we get that scene, then, with the doctor

831
00:42:18.599 --> 00:42:23.820
and Clara outside, while Awson's inside, and she asked the doctor

832
00:42:23.820 --> 00:42:26.579
for an explanation, and he says, what sort of explanation do you

833
00:42:26.579 --> 00:42:26.880
want?

834
00:42:26.940 --> 00:42:29.460
And she says a reassuring one.

835
00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:34.559
And then for the rest of... like myself cheaply from...

836
00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:35.460
It's brilliant moment.

837
00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:36.420
So good.

838
00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:43.860
But the thing is that that allows Moffatt to give a non

839
00:42:41.880 --> 00:42:46.619
supernatural, non-monstery explanation for literally everything

840
00:42:46.619 --> 00:42:47.519
that's happening.

841
00:42:47.579 --> 00:42:50.940
And I think part of the problem with the direction here is that

842
00:42:50.940 --> 00:42:53.400
it's overlit, it's all gels.

843
00:42:53.460 --> 00:42:55.500
I mean, you have that mood lighting line.

844
00:42:55.559 --> 00:42:57.239
Do you have mood lighting now, doctor?

845
00:42:57.300 --> 00:43:00.000
Because frankly, the accent is already a big part.

846
00:43:00.719 --> 00:43:03.900
It should be more ambiguous, I think.

847
00:43:03.960 --> 00:43:07.679
Because it is very directed as if there is definitely something

848
00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:09.300
outside knocking on the door.

849
00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:13.260
And you've got the doctor's reassuring explanation, which needs to

850
00:43:13.260 --> 00:43:15.119
be plausible for the thing to work.

851
00:43:15.179 --> 00:43:19.079
And I think that's the problem is that the direction doesn't

852
00:43:19.079 --> 00:43:24.659
capture the ambiguity of the child under the blanket well enough

853
00:43:24.659 --> 00:43:28.380
and it makes this a little bit too, obviously.

854
00:43:28.440 --> 00:43:31.559
It's quite interesting, your observations, because I was never

855
00:43:31.559 --> 00:43:35.159
watching it thinking that there was a possibility that actually

856
00:43:35.159 --> 00:43:36.059
it's just our imagination.

857
00:43:36.119 --> 00:43:37.380
It's just things that go bump in the night.

858
00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:40.380
Because that is the conclusion that the episode reaches, I think.

859
00:43:40.500 --> 00:43:42.239
The conclusion that there's nothing there?

860
00:43:42.300 --> 00:43:44.699
Oh, see, I don't get that reading at all.

861
00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:47.880
I get the reading that, like the creatures in midnight, like the

862
00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:52.320
Vastinarata, there are these things, these creatures, and they are

863
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:54.840
ever present. from the beginning of time to the end of the

864
00:43:54.840 --> 00:43:57.300
universe and they're just there. and we don't really interact with

865
00:43:57.300 --> 00:43:57.599
them.

866
00:43:57.659 --> 00:44:00.239
But also I think what's sort of clear about it is that they

867
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:03.059
frighten us, but they will never harm us sort of thing.

868
00:44:03.179 --> 00:44:03.900
Yeah.

869
00:44:03.900 --> 00:44:07.260
Because you have Clara going back to the doctor as a frightened

870
00:44:07.260 --> 00:44:11.940
child and her recognising that the doctor is always frightened

871
00:44:11.940 --> 00:44:14.099
even though he doesn't let on about it.

872
00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:18.059
And so this is an episode where his fear has got out of control

873
00:44:18.059 --> 00:44:21.360
and it's led him to create this monster.

874
00:44:21.420 --> 00:44:25.019
And what she does at the end is she teaches the doctor to be

875
00:44:25.019 --> 00:44:25.679
brave.

876
00:44:25.739 --> 00:44:32.039
And so I think, I don't think that the episode has to come down on

877
00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:33.059
either side.

878
00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:37.619
I think for it to work, both sides need to be plausible.

879
00:44:37.679 --> 00:44:38.940
Yeah.

880
00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:40.380
And it's nearly there.

881
00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:43.019
Like, both times we're scared.

882
00:44:43.079 --> 00:44:45.360
We get alternative explanations.

883
00:44:45.420 --> 00:44:48.719
Oh, it's just the kid from next door under the blanket or it's a

884
00:44:48.719 --> 00:44:49.139
monster.

885
00:44:49.199 --> 00:44:53.460
Oh, it's just atmospheric differential shorting out the like a

886
00:44:53.460 --> 00:44:56.400
pressure equalisation or something or it's a monster.

887
00:44:56.460 --> 00:45:01.019
And both of those, I think, need to be equally plausible, because

888
00:45:01.019 --> 00:45:03.420
I think that that's what the episode's going for.

889
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:03.960
Yeah.

890
00:45:04.019 --> 00:45:04.320
Okay.

891
00:45:04.380 --> 00:45:06.719
Fair enough, but I don't think it, I don't think it ends up, or at

892
00:45:06.719 --> 00:45:08.039
least that maybe...

893
00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:11.280
Even if that's where Stephen Moffatt, the writer is going for, it's

894
00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:12.179
not what the director's going for.

895
00:45:12.239 --> 00:45:13.920
I think the directors decided that these things are real.

896
00:45:13.980 --> 00:45:15.599
And it's very interesting that because we've got different

897
00:45:15.599 --> 00:45:18.179
interpretations about whether these things are real or whether

898
00:45:18.179 --> 00:45:19.619
they're not or whether it's supposed to be ambiguous.

899
00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:23.579
I don't notice the what you're calling the bad lighting choices in

900
00:45:23.579 --> 00:45:26.639
the, you know, end of the universe spaceship, space, whatever it

901
00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:26.820
is.

902
00:45:26.880 --> 00:45:29.639
It's quite fascinating that I'm not seeing that as a problem

903
00:45:29.639 --> 00:45:33.179
because I'm taking a different conclusion from the episode.

904
00:45:33.239 --> 00:45:36.780
I think it's just him breaking out the same gels that he uses

905
00:45:36.780 --> 00:45:37.739
yes.

906
00:45:38.940 --> 00:45:40.980
If you're under a good thing.

907
00:45:41.039 --> 00:45:46.139
But, you know, had that been dark instead of really just blue, that

908
00:45:46.139 --> 00:45:47.099
would have been more atmospheric.

909
00:45:47.219 --> 00:45:49.800
Yeah, see, well, it's the ship's night mode.

910
00:45:49.860 --> 00:45:51.179
Yes, exactly.

911
00:45:51.239 --> 00:45:52.920
Crew was supposed to be asleep.

912
00:45:52.980 --> 00:45:54.119
Yeah, it's fun.

913
00:45:54.179 --> 00:45:58.559
Like, I come down on the side of there is a monster, but I also

914
00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:02.039
definitely see that there's an explanation that there's not a

915
00:46:02.039 --> 00:46:02.519
monster.

916
00:46:02.579 --> 00:46:06.179
And so the doctor, the conclusion they come to at the end of the

917
00:46:06.179 --> 00:46:10.320
episode is, even if there is a monster, it just wants to be around

918
00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:10.619
us.

919
00:46:10.679 --> 00:46:12.539
Yes, it isn't harmless.

920
00:46:12.599 --> 00:46:13.380
It doesn't want to harvest.

921
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:16.980
And it's like, you know, they're not breaking into not trying to

922
00:46:16.980 --> 00:46:19.320
get into the ship to hurt Orson.

923
00:46:19.380 --> 00:46:21.719
They're trying to get into the ship because they have always kept

924
00:46:21.719 --> 00:46:24.360
humans company and now there are no more humans and what are they

925
00:46:24.360 --> 00:46:24.719
going to do?

926
00:46:24.780 --> 00:46:28.739
Because they're all off as little spheres buzzing about. near

927
00:46:28.739 --> 00:46:29.579
utopia.

928
00:46:29.639 --> 00:46:33.780
Except I think that when the doctor talks about something that has

929
00:46:33.780 --> 00:46:38.820
accompanied you all your life, the episode comes up with the

930
00:46:38.820 --> 00:46:40.079
answer, that's your fear.

931
00:46:40.199 --> 00:46:41.340
Yes.

932
00:46:41.340 --> 00:46:41.760
Yeah.

933
00:46:41.820 --> 00:46:44.519
The fear is the thing that's accompanied you all your life.

934
00:46:44.579 --> 00:46:46.980
And fear is the central idea of the episode.

935
00:46:47.099 --> 00:46:51.960
And so I think it, I think that it spoils it a bit if there's very

936
00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:55.139
definitely nothing to be afraid of and we're all just making it

937
00:46:55.139 --> 00:46:55.440
up.

938
00:46:55.500 --> 00:46:58.679
And if there very definitely is something to be afraid of.

939
00:46:58.739 --> 00:46:59.639
I think that spoils it.

940
00:46:59.699 --> 00:47:02.519
I think that's why the ambiguity needs to be there.

941
00:47:02.579 --> 00:47:02.940
Okay, okay.

942
00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:04.559
I'll pay that the ambiguity.

943
00:47:04.619 --> 00:47:06.300
Well, there should be a great level of ambiguity.

944
00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:07.559
Fine.

945
00:47:07.619 --> 00:47:10.380
I still think it works even without that.

946
00:47:10.440 --> 00:47:14.340
But maybe it's the episode's not really about fear, it's about

947
00:47:14.340 --> 00:47:15.480
courage.

948
00:47:15.539 --> 00:47:19.260
And it's about, it's about sort of moving past the fear.

949
00:47:19.380 --> 00:47:22.679
And that's why, you know, the sequence with Clara and holding the

950
00:47:22.679 --> 00:47:26.579
doctor's ankle as a child, which is quite terrifying, actually.

951
00:47:26.639 --> 00:47:28.260
That would be terrifying.

952
00:47:28.320 --> 00:47:30.780
I mean, if someone reached out, I mean, basically you'd be, you

953
00:47:30.780 --> 00:47:33.059
know, you'd be a mess for the rest of your life.

954
00:47:33.179 --> 00:47:35.940
But the really properly clever thing about that.

955
00:47:36.059 --> 00:47:41.280
The really properly clever thing about that, I think, is that

956
00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:47.880
Clara realises just as she grabs his ankle that this is the doctor

957
00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:48.900
having that dream.

958
00:47:48.960 --> 00:47:49.800
Yes.

959
00:47:49.800 --> 00:47:53.820
She asks the doctor, Did you have that dream and he refuses to

960
00:47:53.820 --> 00:47:54.179
answer?

961
00:47:54.239 --> 00:47:59.340
When she gets distracted, she's 1st distracted by Danny and so

962
00:47:59.340 --> 00:48:04.860
they land just after he has that dream as a child, then she gets

963
00:48:04.860 --> 00:48:06.360
distracted by the doctor.

964
00:48:06.420 --> 00:48:08.039
She's also been thinking about the doctor.

965
00:48:08.099 --> 00:48:11.940
And so the next place we land is where the doctor is about to have

966
00:48:11.940 --> 00:48:12.659
that dream.

967
00:48:12.719 --> 00:48:15.900
And there's a beautiful bit of direction.

968
00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:19.380
You know, we get the 3 people, the 3 random people.

969
00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:21.420
You never have this in Doctor Who because you have to cast someone

970
00:48:21.420 --> 00:48:23.340
and create a set and all of that sort of thing.

971
00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:24.840
There's 3 people all having the dream.

972
00:48:24.900 --> 00:48:27.960
A little girl in the past, an older woman and a boy.

973
00:48:28.019 --> 00:48:34.139
And the way the camera moves out from under the bed to see to

974
00:48:34.139 --> 00:48:37.500
follow the, like it follows the hand as it comes out.

975
00:48:37.619 --> 00:48:38.940
It's really well done.

976
00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:41.940
And so there's that moment where Clara grabs the doctor's ankle to

977
00:48:41.940 --> 00:48:46.440
stop him from getting up and seeing the TARDIS or seeing her and

978
00:48:46.440 --> 00:48:51.659
then realises, holy crap, this is me, making him have that dream.

979
00:48:51.719 --> 00:48:55.079
I'm the cause for this entire thing.

980
00:48:55.139 --> 00:48:55.679
Yes, exactly.

981
00:48:55.739 --> 00:48:56.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

982
00:48:56.519 --> 00:48:57.780
Brilliant.

983
00:48:57.840 --> 00:49:01.800
And also, you know, every other hand that's ever done is one of

984
00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:02.699
Clara's splinters.

985
00:49:02.760 --> 00:49:04.019
Well, there you go.

986
00:49:04.079 --> 00:49:06.659
She's under In fact, it's Clara under the blanket.

987
00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:12.239
That was where my thoughts were going earlier because when you

988
00:49:12.239 --> 00:49:15.179
were saying about the interpretation of it, you've actually all

989
00:49:15.179 --> 00:49:18.239
come up with 3 separate theories, I guess.

990
00:49:18.360 --> 00:49:20.760
So Brendan's sort of like in the middle of you.

991
00:49:20.820 --> 00:49:24.659
But that was what I was thinking with the, um, this old the

992
00:49:24.659 --> 00:49:25.139
spinter.

993
00:49:25.199 --> 00:49:30.119
One piece is harking back to the name of the doctor where Clara

994
00:49:30.119 --> 00:49:33.420
becomes this significant person in the doctor's life.

995
00:49:33.480 --> 00:49:36.659
And when I 1st watched that, I was like, okay, where's the

996
00:49:36.659 --> 00:49:37.380
comeback from this?

997
00:49:37.440 --> 00:49:40.380
Like, she's obviously, she's really going to become the most

998
00:49:40.380 --> 00:49:41.699
important companion ever.

999
00:49:41.699 --> 00:49:44.880
And closer to him, really than River song.

1000
00:49:44.940 --> 00:49:49.139
If she's gone through his time stream, she would really know him

1001
00:49:49.139 --> 00:49:50.880
better than anybody ever has.

1002
00:49:50.940 --> 00:49:55.440
And so this is the fact that from now on, she's also showing that

1003
00:49:55.440 --> 00:49:59.219
she's shaping, having its, you know, these significant moments

1004
00:49:59.219 --> 00:50:03.300
where she has actually shaped the person he is, significantly, I

1005
00:50:03.300 --> 00:50:06.480
think, is that little bit of that thing to just say she's not just

1006
00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:07.980
an ordinary girl.

1007
00:50:08.039 --> 00:50:10.320
She is someone a bit very special.

1008
00:50:10.380 --> 00:50:14.460
Like she's the one who gives him the line fear makes companions of

1009
00:50:14.460 --> 00:50:19.800
us all, which appears at the end of, is it the Daleks or is it...

1010
00:50:19.860 --> 00:50:22.019
It's during an unearthly child.

1011
00:50:22.079 --> 00:50:23.340
They're in the cave of skulls.

1012
00:50:23.400 --> 00:50:27.360
Okay, so she gives him that line.

1013
00:50:27.360 --> 00:50:31.920
And, you know, like, just 2 weeks ago, we were talking about the

1014
00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:34.980
doctor meeting the Daleks for the 1st time and becoming the doctor

1015
00:50:34.980 --> 00:50:35.820
for the 1st time.

1016
00:50:35.880 --> 00:50:39.780
This is Moffatt starting to get interested in the beginning of the

1017
00:50:39.780 --> 00:50:43.980
series and we saw the doctor and Susan stealing the TARDIS and

1018
00:50:43.980 --> 00:50:46.380
things in name of the doctor.

1019
00:50:46.440 --> 00:50:52.260
I think part of the thing is that Moffat does look at the doctor's

1020
00:50:52.260 --> 00:50:57.599
origins, but in a way that still leaves them alone.

1021
00:50:57.659 --> 00:51:02.039
So he doesn't change anything or fill anything in.

1022
00:51:02.099 --> 00:51:08.880
He doesn't make it any less mysterious than it already is, but he

1023
00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:10.920
is fiddling around the edges of that.

1024
00:51:11.519 --> 00:51:16.559
And I think that that's the right approach to take Chris

1025
00:51:16.559 --> 00:51:17.340
Chibnall.

1026
00:51:17.400 --> 00:51:19.980
Yes, I like to say...

1027
00:51:21.480 --> 00:51:26.639
What you just said about Clara, Fiona, reminded me of a discussion

1028
00:51:26.639 --> 00:51:30.960
I had at the time with friend of the podcast, Anson, where we were

1029
00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:34.139
discussing how Clara's characterisation had changed between

1030
00:51:34.139 --> 00:51:37.260
seasons, and that's something we've discussed on the show before

1031
00:51:37.260 --> 00:51:41.820
and Anson at the time had a very interesting theory, because he

1032
00:51:41.820 --> 00:51:45.059
had brought up to me, we don't see how the doctor and Clara

1033
00:51:45.059 --> 00:51:46.860
escaped from the doctor's timeline.

1034
00:51:46.920 --> 00:51:50.519
You know, they're trying to get out the name of the doctor, and

1035
00:51:50.519 --> 00:51:52.260
then all of a sudden they're...

1036
00:51:52.320 --> 00:51:58.380
And Anson had a theory that during series 8, it would be revealed

1037
00:51:58.380 --> 00:52:01.139
that this is actually a different version of Clara.

1038
00:52:01.380 --> 00:52:07.079
Which would make it very interesting if, you know, because if

1039
00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:09.239
she's the same version of Clara, she's already massively

1040
00:52:09.239 --> 00:52:10.619
influenced the doctor's timeline.

1041
00:52:10.679 --> 00:52:13.260
But if this is a new version of Clara, this is her influence of

1042
00:52:13.260 --> 00:52:13.980
the doctor's time.

1043
00:52:14.039 --> 00:52:16.079
Now, obviously, it didn't end up being that.

1044
00:52:16.139 --> 00:52:21.239
But it is such an interesting thing that she's still doing it.

1045
00:52:22.199 --> 00:52:27.059
Yeah, and I do think it's such a lovely scene, especially when she

1046
00:52:27.059 --> 00:52:29.340
tells him he can't go out and see where they are.

1047
00:52:29.460 --> 00:52:31.860
And then she hug attacks him.

1048
00:52:31.980 --> 00:52:32.940
Yes.

1049
00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:35.159
I don't do hugging.

1050
00:52:35.579 --> 00:52:40.440
I don't take orders and she just gives him an order and he does

1051
00:52:40.440 --> 00:52:40.860
take it.

1052
00:52:40.920 --> 00:52:42.179
He doesn't.

1053
00:52:42.239 --> 00:52:43.559
And the same with the hug attack.

1054
00:52:43.619 --> 00:52:46.380
He's saying, I don't want to be hugged, but at the same time, he's

1055
00:52:46.380 --> 00:52:48.659
not fighting her off too because he does love her.

1056
00:52:48.659 --> 00:52:52.619
And he does appreciate that, yeah, he's appreciating the hug.

1057
00:52:52.679 --> 00:52:54.119
And he's always scared.

1058
00:52:54.179 --> 00:52:58.619
Like we now know that he's always scared as well.

1059
00:52:58.679 --> 00:53:03.539
I think, I think, though, if you're looking at this era of Doctor

1060
00:53:03.539 --> 00:53:07.380
Who as part of an ongoing story about a single individual and

1061
00:53:07.380 --> 00:53:10.800
stuff, then you kind of think, well, Clara's had more to do with

1062
00:53:10.800 --> 00:53:12.780
the doctor's origins than anyone else.

1063
00:53:12.840 --> 00:53:16.380
But I think that it's just because she's the companion when he

1064
00:53:16.380 --> 00:53:20.760
comes up with these ideas and it is the companions in a way that

1065
00:53:20.760 --> 00:53:22.079
make the doctor, the doctor.

1066
00:53:22.139 --> 00:53:25.559
I mean, if you look back at the very beginning of the show, like

1067
00:53:25.559 --> 00:53:28.980
Ian calls him doctor or Barbara calls him doctor before anyone

1068
00:53:28.980 --> 00:53:33.599
else does and he becomes the doctor over the course of that run of

1069
00:53:33.599 --> 00:53:38.340
13 episodes at the beginning of the show, partly because of

1070
00:53:38.340 --> 00:53:40.800
Barbara and Ian, or very largely because of them.

1071
00:53:40.860 --> 00:53:43.860
So the companions do create the doctor, I think.

1072
00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:44.579
Yeah.

1073
00:53:44.639 --> 00:53:49.500
And especially because Clara has emphatically stated at this point

1074
00:53:49.500 --> 00:53:50.219
I'm his carer.

1075
00:53:50.280 --> 00:53:52.559
Yeah, yes, indeed.

1076
00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:06.300
We do have that, uh, the thing that I was worried about at the

1077
00:54:06.300 --> 00:54:09.119
time when we were watching it and the sort of, uh, picked up on

1078
00:54:09.119 --> 00:54:13.079
now, which is this, this, the poor choice of how they deal with

1079
00:54:13.079 --> 00:54:16.920
Danny being a soldier, Danny being uh, ex-military.

1080
00:54:16.980 --> 00:54:19.739
Clara has a somewhat negative reaction to it during the date, which

1081
00:54:19.739 --> 00:54:22.920
is one of the reasons why the date starts to go wrong because she

1082
00:54:22.920 --> 00:54:26.400
puts her foot in it asking about it, what he'd done as a soldier.

1083
00:54:26.460 --> 00:54:30.780
It's odd because, you know, Austin Pink is an astronaut who are

1084
00:54:30.780 --> 00:54:33.960
traditionally part of the military. is the very strong suggestion

1085
00:54:33.960 --> 00:54:35.519
that he's part of the military as well.

1086
00:54:35.579 --> 00:54:38.099
So I think the way this series, the particular, this particular

1087
00:54:38.099 --> 00:54:41.760
series, addresses the military addresses Danny's role in the

1088
00:54:41.760 --> 00:54:45.960
military is incredibly ill judged, and I should become very cross

1089
00:54:45.960 --> 00:54:48.000
about it as a series moves forward.

1090
00:54:48.059 --> 00:54:51.900
Yeah, it was Stephen Moffat addressing a hot button topic because

1091
00:54:51.900 --> 00:54:56.760
I was, no, I was just back from the UK when this series went out

1092
00:54:56.760 --> 00:55:01.980
but around 2012, you had a lot of soldiers coming back to the UK

1093
00:55:01.980 --> 00:55:05.940
from Afghanistan and getting out of the military and there was

1094
00:55:05.940 --> 00:55:06.780
actually a big push.

1095
00:55:06.840 --> 00:55:10.440
Oh, retrain them as teachers to address the teacher shortage.

1096
00:55:10.500 --> 00:55:13.619
And so, you know, I think it's Moffatt picking up on that, but

1097
00:55:13.619 --> 00:55:16.860
also not knowing any soldiers and not knowing any soldiers who

1098
00:55:16.860 --> 00:55:17.639
became teachers.

1099
00:55:17.699 --> 00:55:18.659
But it's not being a teacher.

1100
00:55:18.719 --> 00:55:21.300
It's about being treating him as if the, well, the doctor and

1101
00:55:21.300 --> 00:55:24.719
others treating him that he's either a savage or an idiot or

1102
00:55:24.719 --> 00:55:25.019
totally.

1103
00:55:25.079 --> 00:55:25.980
Or worse.

1104
00:55:26.039 --> 00:55:27.059
It's a big problem.

1105
00:55:27.119 --> 00:55:28.079
Like it's a criminal, basically.

1106
00:55:28.139 --> 00:55:31.019
Yeah, it's even more addressing a hot button topic, but apparently

1107
00:55:31.019 --> 00:55:34.380
not researching or talking to anyone actually involved.

1108
00:55:34.440 --> 00:55:38.880
But to be fair, Stephen Moffatt is also writing Danny's lines.

1109
00:55:38.940 --> 00:55:42.840
So it's not just writing the doctor and Clara being suspicious

1110
00:55:42.840 --> 00:55:45.659
about people being soldiers.

1111
00:55:45.719 --> 00:55:50.039
The pushback, which comes from Danny, because the thing that Clara

1112
00:55:50.039 --> 00:55:55.440
puts a foot in it with is by saying, you know, when you say, I

1113
00:55:55.440 --> 00:55:57.480
could kill Courtney, that really means something.

1114
00:55:57.539 --> 00:55:58.079
Yes.

1115
00:55:58.079 --> 00:56:02.940
And then we cut back to her kind of reaction to having fluff the

1116
00:56:02.940 --> 00:56:05.820
day and then they're already in the middle of an argument where

1117
00:56:05.820 --> 00:56:07.860
he's saying, no, I was there saving people.

1118
00:56:07.920 --> 00:56:08.639
I was digging well.

1119
00:56:08.699 --> 00:56:10.079
Absolutely.

1120
00:56:10.139 --> 00:56:11.519
And it's fine here.

1121
00:56:11.639 --> 00:56:12.599
It's later.

1122
00:56:12.659 --> 00:56:13.500
Oh yeah.

1123
00:56:13.559 --> 00:56:16.019
Yeah, it's going to be a problem.

1124
00:56:16.079 --> 00:56:18.300
Maybe because basically what I'm uncomfortable with is not that

1125
00:56:18.300 --> 00:56:19.800
Danny has a comeback.

1126
00:56:19.860 --> 00:56:20.940
It's a very good comeback.

1127
00:56:21.000 --> 00:56:26.940
It's the fact that our heroes take this view and in some respects

1128
00:56:26.940 --> 00:56:30.780
one of the heroes never sheds that view throughout the season, the

1129
00:56:30.780 --> 00:56:31.559
main hero, in fact.

1130
00:56:31.619 --> 00:56:34.320
Very unfortunate, very unfortunate choice.

1131
00:56:34.380 --> 00:56:37.980
Look, I think the one thing that you can't get past with this

1132
00:56:37.980 --> 00:56:40.500
episode is that it's all done incredibly elegantly.

1133
00:56:40.559 --> 00:56:43.440
Even if you, you know, want the lighting to be turned down or

1134
00:56:43.440 --> 00:56:46.139
change some places.

1135
00:56:46.199 --> 00:56:48.780
It's all done so cleverly, as was pointed out, there is, the guest

1136
00:56:48.780 --> 00:56:50.159
cast is microscopic.

1137
00:56:50.159 --> 00:56:54.480
And you're drawn into it from the very 1st moment, you're on the

1138
00:56:54.480 --> 00:56:55.199
edge of your seat.

1139
00:56:55.260 --> 00:56:56.460
You stop breathing.

1140
00:56:56.519 --> 00:56:59.219
It does everything that you want an episode to do.

1141
00:57:23.340 --> 00:57:26.159
Well, that's all we have time for this week.

1142
00:57:26.219 --> 00:57:30.119
We'll be back next week. either to overthrow capitalism, or to

1143
00:57:30.119 --> 00:57:33.900
have a bit of a romp in the galaxy's biggest bank in time heist.

1144
00:57:34.139 --> 00:57:38.099
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1145
00:57:38.099 --> 00:57:41.519
and you can keep up with us on our website, flightforentirety.com

1146
00:57:41.519 --> 00:57:44.219
where you'll find links to our accounts on Facebook, Twitter, and

1147
00:57:44.219 --> 00:57:48.480
Mastodon, as well as links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody

1148
00:57:48.480 --> 00:57:51.960
Intetera, Maximum Power, and Untitled Star Trek Project.

1149
00:57:52.500 --> 00:57:57.239
Until next time, remember that fear makes companions of us all.

1150
00:57:57.300 --> 00:57:59.760
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1151
00:57:59.820 --> 00:58:01.320
I want my blankie.

1152
00:58:01.380 --> 00:58:01.739
Good night.

1153
00:58:01.800 --> 00:58:02.699
Bye for now.

1154
00:58:02.760 --> 00:58:03.599
Good night.

1155
00:58:07.619 --> 00:58:11.219
That was Flight through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley

1156
00:58:11.219 --> 00:58:13.380
Brandon Jones, Simon Moore, and Fiona Tomney.

1157
00:58:13.440 --> 00:58:15.480
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1158
00:58:15.539 --> 00:58:18.780
This episode, level of ambiguity, was recorded on the 15th of

1159
00:58:18.780 --> 00:58:22.139
January 2023 and released on the 7th of May.

1160
00:58:23.579 --> 00:58:27.719
If you have been affected by issues arising in this program, we

1161
00:58:27.719 --> 00:58:31.619
recommend breaking up the space under your bed, but really after

1162
00:58:31.619 --> 00:58:35.280
checking it carefully for Clockwork Monsters and perky bisexual

1163
00:58:35.280 --> 00:58:36.119
English teachers.

1164
00:58:45.179 --> 00:58:45.719
Yeah, okay.

1165
00:58:45.840 --> 00:58:47.639
I think we can now.

1166
00:58:47.699 --> 00:58:49.920
Is anyone, are you frozen again, Fiona?

1167
00:58:49.980 --> 00:58:51.300
She's frozen again.

1168
00:58:51.360 --> 00:58:51.539
Yeah.

1169
00:58:51.539 --> 00:58:56.940
The Clara Danny date is just basically the 1st 3 episodes of

1170
00:58:56.940 --> 00:58:57.480
coupling, though.

1171
00:58:57.539 --> 00:58:58.679
Yeah, oh, no, no, no.

1172
00:58:58.739 --> 00:58:59.820
Yeah, that's why he's doing that.

1173
00:58:59.880 --> 00:59:01.860
Oh, yeah, it's the right thing.

1174
00:59:01.860 --> 00:59:04.079
But it's a way...

1175
00:59:04.139 --> 00:59:05.579
She'll come back Yeah.

1176
00:59:05.639 --> 00:59:08.219
Did she come back because she has to ask to join again, doesn't

1177
00:59:08.219 --> 00:59:08.460
she?

1178
00:59:08.519 --> 00:59:09.059
Ow.

1179
00:59:09.059 --> 00:59:12.059
Will it?

1180
00:59:12.119 --> 00:59:13.800
I think that um...

1181
00:59:15.000 --> 00:59:17.099
Wait, I'm going to restart.

1182
00:59:17.159 --> 00:59:17.820
Oh no, no.

1183
00:59:17.880 --> 00:59:19.440
Hooray.

1184
00:59:19.500 --> 00:59:23.400
So, Fiona, we've only got 2 minutes left, which means that we've

1185
00:59:23.400 --> 00:59:27.719
been recording for 80 minutes, so I think we're probably...

1186
00:59:27.780 --> 00:59:28.920
I think we've got enough.

1187
00:59:29.039 --> 00:59:29.519
That was great.

1188
00:59:29.579 --> 00:59:30.300
That was really good.

1189
00:59:30.360 --> 00:59:30.840
Thank you very much.

1190
00:59:30.900 --> 00:59:31.380
Yeah, thank you.

1191
00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:32.400
Is there anything for you?

1192
00:59:32.940 --> 00:59:34.980
Is there anything you wanted to say you didn't get a chance to say

1193
00:59:34.980 --> 00:59:37.559
and we can drop it back in wherever appropriate?

1194
00:59:37.619 --> 00:59:41.159
Oh, not really, but while I've got you guys online.

1195
00:59:41.219 --> 00:59:45.659
I just wanted to say that one of my favourite Peter Capaldi

1196
00:59:45.659 --> 00:59:48.840
moments is actually when he's standing in the balloon at the end

1197
00:59:48.840 --> 00:59:49.619
of Deep Breath.

1198
00:59:49.619 --> 00:59:54.780
And I still don't know whether or not he pushed the Clockwork man

1199
00:59:54.780 --> 00:59:55.139
over.

1200
00:59:55.199 --> 00:59:58.500
But I think that's one of his strongest performances is that look

1201
00:59:58.500 --> 01:00:00.000
on his face without saying a word.

1202
01:00:00.059 --> 01:00:03.719
That's my favourite moment and I, yeah.

1203
01:00:03.840 --> 01:00:06.360
We landed on he did push him out.

1204
01:00:07.380 --> 01:00:09.360
I reckon he did too.

1205
01:00:09.420 --> 01:00:10.860
Because he did beat up the tramp.

1206
01:00:10.920 --> 01:00:14.159
He did beat up Mrs. Elizabeth Slade.

1207
01:00:15.900 --> 01:00:16.739
Tramp his watch.

1208
01:00:16.739 --> 01:00:18.360
But he was so clearly lying.

1209
01:00:20.219 --> 01:00:22.320
Mr. Elizabeth Slater.

1210
01:00:23.639 --> 01:00:26.280
I will say, Fiona, with that with that great shot where he looks

1211
01:00:26.280 --> 01:00:30.480
up at the camera, I seem to recall like the, you know, the BBC

1212
01:00:30.480 --> 01:00:33.059
drama in late 2014 trailer.

1213
01:00:33.119 --> 01:00:36.179
That's the shot that leads it off with original British drama

1214
01:00:36.179 --> 01:00:37.739
plastered over Capaldi.

1215
01:00:37.800 --> 01:00:41.820
It just a well-placed looking down the barrel of the lens

1216
01:00:41.820 --> 01:00:45.119
sparingly is can be very, very effective.

1217
01:00:45.179 --> 01:00:46.800
Yeah, it's a bit like...

1218
01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:49.260
What about when the doctor looks at the camera and goes, even the

1219
01:00:49.260 --> 01:00:51.300
Sonic screwdriver won't get me out of his head?

1220
01:00:51.360 --> 01:00:53.099
Yes, not that one.

1221
01:00:53.159 --> 01:00:55.800
I think I think that's not on my list of funds that were

1222
01:00:55.800 --> 01:00:56.219
successful.

1223
01:00:56.280 --> 01:01:00.599
I will also I think if Clara is saying, and remember at the end.

1224
01:01:00.599 --> 01:01:01.800
Yeah, that's so good.

1225
01:01:01.980 --> 01:01:08.880
And everything this cold open of this episode does well or badly

1226
01:01:08.880 --> 01:01:13.860
is entirely forgiven for me with Thumb Before the Flood and the

1227
01:01:13.860 --> 01:01:15.659
who wrote Beethoven's fifth.

1228
01:01:15.840 --> 01:01:19.199
Yeah, you know, because they do that again for that.

1229
01:01:19.260 --> 01:01:21.960
It's like, you know, a time traveller goes back to meet Beethoven

1230
01:01:21.960 --> 01:01:22.860
but no one's ever heard of him.

1231
01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:24.300
So he becomes Beethoven.

1232
01:01:24.659 --> 01:01:24.840
Yes.

1233
01:01:24.900 --> 01:01:25.440
Yes.

1234
01:01:27.539 --> 01:01:28.920
Yeah, we dodged a bullet.

1235
01:01:28.980 --> 01:01:29.699
I mean, we...

1236
01:01:29.699 --> 01:01:35.519
When Weird House didn't become Showrunner, but we did take another

1237
01:01:35.519 --> 01:01:36.059
bullet.

1238
01:01:38.820 --> 01:01:41.940
I think I think the corpse is...

1239
01:01:41.940 --> 01:01:43.980
It's got loads of bullets in it.

1240
01:01:44.460 --> 01:01:45.059
Yeah, keep that.

1241
01:01:45.059 --> 01:01:48.960
It's about like the 7th doctor didn't die from the bullet wound.

1242
01:01:49.019 --> 01:01:50.760
He died from botched open heart surgery.

1243
01:01:50.820 --> 01:01:51.840
Yes, exactly.

1244
01:01:51.900 --> 01:01:54.840
We've got less than a minute and it's going to kick us off this

1245
01:01:54.840 --> 01:01:55.079
call.

1246
01:01:55.500 --> 01:01:56.880
Sure.

1247
01:01:56.880 --> 01:01:57.840
Love to see you.

1248
01:01:57.900 --> 01:01:58.860
Thank you.

1249
01:01:58.860 --> 01:02:01.079
Oh, she's gone.

1250
01:02:01.079 --> 01:02:02.400
Now we can't even say goodbye.

1251
01:02:02.460 --> 01:02:04.559
Well, you can open up a Facebook chat.

1252
01:02:05.159 --> 01:02:06.719
Is she there?

1253
01:02:07.679 --> 01:02:09.900
I could call her on Facebook.

1254
01:02:09.960 --> 01:02:10.800
Yeah, do that.