WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:35:28

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety.

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The only Doctor Who podcast with no memory at all of anything that's happened in the last 5 years.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm James.

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I'm Peter.

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And I'm Simon.

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Well, it's time for Clara's 2nd date with Danny, and this time it's the doctor's turn to come along and ruin everything.

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And so now we're in the most secure bank in the universe with literally no idea of how we got here or what we're supposed to do next.

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It's Ocean's 4 with a couple of horny pachyderms in time heist.

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So, again, here we are in sort of part five of Is the Doctor a good person or not?

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And here we're getting our fifth iteration of that idea, and it's different each time.

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Boring manufactured character never goes anywhere.

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Do you think?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I think it is a very moffity thing and it's very central to the way the doctor has been portrayed by Moffatt even during the Smith era.

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Here, I guess we get the sort of self-hatred thing, don't we?

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The doctor hates the architect, and that's how the doctor works out that he's the architect because the doctor hates himself.

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Is that how he works out?

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Yeah, yeah.

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Do you remember the speech at the very end where he talks about how he's manipulative and arrogant and he thinks he's smarter than everyone in the room and the sort of penny starts to drop?

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Yes.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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But that's not self-hatred per se. just him recognising that he's all of those things.

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But that's how he knows that he hates the architect, the architect, him because he's all the things that the doctor hates about himself.

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I guess.

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The self-hatred line is lampshaded.

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Yeah.

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But other than that, this is fairly straightforward, I think.

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I mean, in a good way, I think.

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I think it's 3rd time lucky for Stephen Thompson.

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He previously gave us Doctor Who's Pirate movie and then Doctor Who's Expedition movie, and neither of them really progressed beyond the actual premise.

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There was no development of it.

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This, I think, is quite a good keeper movie.

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And it's really the 1st time the Doctor Who's done it.

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Which one's the expedition movie?

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Journey to the centre of the Tartars.

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Oh, right, I see.

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Yeah, I think, like, it is a sort of caper, and I think Douglas McKinnon thinks it's a caper.

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He's trying to do all of these little sort of guy Richie ticks and stuff like that.

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But I guess the big difference between this heist and a normal TV heist is that in a normal TV heist, we see the action take place twice.

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So we have the plan, which is explained as a voiceover while we see it going right.

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Perfectly correct.

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And then we see it again where it goes wrong at the crucial moment.

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Or more frequently.

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More crucial moments, lots of crucial.

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Yes, yeah, it goes wrong and they save it.

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Yeah, that's right.

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But then it goes catastrophically wrong. at some point.

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Here, we don't have that and they don't know what they're doing.

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Look, I mean, I think that this is a very good episode, which is very entertaining, but I think it is, as you kind of allude to there.

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I think it is actually slightly wasted because I think given that it's a time heist, You could actually be actually doing it twice. using time traveller as a result.

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I think it's saved to be really good by a really good production and really good performances because I think it doesn't actually quite land at the end.

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I want kind of more out of it, even though I really enjoy it and I love it.

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I think we get, you know, the kind of reverse where we actually do see Capaldi turn up, presumably in his TARDIS, although that's not made explicit, and putting all the cases everywhere.

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I mean, that sort of 7th doctor, New Adventure, sort of way.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And also keeper movies rise and fall on the quality of their characters.

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And I think this episode, and also listened last week, were the 1st ones which felt like they were tailored towards Capaldi's character.

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It wouldn't have worked quite so well with Matt Smith.

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I just don't think it would have been entertaining without that mercurial capaldi quality, but also the 2 guest performance and their characters are really quite engaging in a way that it put me in the mind of ghost monument, which we'll come to in X number of years, where you have the same thing of like the Tartars team and 2 characters added on and they're doing some kind of trip or quest.

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And those characters were utterly forgettable in their characterisation and their performances.

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Whereas here, you really want to spend more time with Sire and Sabre.

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Yeah.

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So science, Jonathan Bailey.

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If you put each other.

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Yeah, yeah.

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He gets better himself to this.

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He gets to have sex with Phoebe Wallerbridge in series 2 of Broadchurch.

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And he gets to have sex with me in about 3 years.

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So actually, I think what's kind of delightful is.

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Obviously in Bridgerton, you know, it's an American TV production in which he has to take his shirt off.

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And so he is absolutely shredded.

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But here he's got a little bit of sort of pudgy puppy fats in his face.

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I think he's adorable.

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He still is poured into that leather suit quite beautifully.

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Yeah, yeah.

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No, I think he looks great.

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I'm not objecting at all I think he's...

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I haven't.

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And then say, bro, I kept, if I looked away from the screen, I think she just sounds like exactly like Jenny, you know, Faster and Jenny.

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She's got the same accent.

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She's got the same kind of voice.

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And so I kept hearing Jenny whenever I saw her.

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I think they're both really good.

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And they make that transition well from the start of the episode where you don't know if they're friend or foe. just been thrown together and they're a bit hostile towards the end of the episode in that last scene where it's really quite nice.

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You think, I could go with this extended TARDS team.

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It's actually really fun, isn't it?

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So they are kind of designed to fit into the plot.

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And I think the sort of telling moment is where we get 2 consecutive scenes of them talking, delivering the exposition that's needed to explain what it is they're being paid with.

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And so I think we get the scene between Clara and Cy where he talks about deleting his family.

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And then immediately after that, we get Sabre and the doctor talking about how she can't have a relationship, because...

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Because she always ends up looking like them.

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That standard rogue from X-Men, kind of.

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Yeah, it's a little bit something.

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But it's also used to see the looking at into your own eyes thing.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, the self-hatred thing.

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Yeah, that they bring in with Carabraxos and Mrs. Delfox.

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Yeah.

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And the doctor.

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And the doctor and the architect.

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Yeah, yeah.

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But that's a little bit rightly.

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It's a little bit kind of not something anyone would actually ever say.

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Yeah, and you can sort of follow the threads of the plot being put together, you know.

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We could highlight this thematically.

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It's like, uh-huh.

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Yeah, yeah.

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But I think that where those characters do come into their own is that extended sequence, at the end, which is super unusual for Doctor Who, and we've had a doctor now for a few episodes who is really brusque and not very good with people and a bit obnoxious, having these sort of scenes of joking and eating Chinese food with sabra and psy in the TARDIS, which I think is lovely.

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And like super unusual in any era, I think.

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And kind of, those scenes are usually quite annoying where you have, you know, the team together at the end.

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Someone cracks a not very funny joke and everyone else laughs themselves silly over it, but it suits the end of a caper movie because it's all about the one between those characters where they work together.

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We're getting a gang together.

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Yeah exactly.

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Another trip getting the gang back together.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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No, I'm getting vibes of Peter Davison standing around with everyone else in the store at the end of the Awakening going on about TV.

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Exactly about the awakening.

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Only this bit's entertaining.

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I really love the start, the precredit sequence.

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And we had it last week as well.

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We listen where it's a slightly different start to an episode.

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You know, the bit of opening credits, which turns into the tumble dryer and, yeah, giving a bit of a monologue.

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I quite like stylistically how where they were going with these.

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And then I was kind of disappointed that they didn't kind of keep going because I think it was a really nice new way of doing the 45 minute episodes.

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Also, interestingly, they used the sting from series one to four, the beginning of the titles.

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Oh, really?

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No reason.

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For no reason.

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It only improved it.

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No, if only they had for the rest of the series.

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Like that sting works really well there.

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And they also did it on robots of Sherwood. as well.

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Yes.

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So wonder why they accidentally used, probably.

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Well, I mean, we've just had a whole episode, which is largely about the rom-com subplot of the season.

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So listen takes place entirely during Danny and Clara's 1st date.

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And I've said before, uh, this season that I like the rom-com sunplot because I think it's funny.

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I think it's something that Moffa can do really well.

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It gives Clara something normal to do rather than be the impossible girl.

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She just gets to be a person and she kind of gets to be a character in chalk or press gang or something like that.

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You know, something that Moffa can ride in his sleep.

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And, you know, that's clearly the reason he keeps getting these writing co-credits because of that.

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And so here we have the doctor just giving a Florana speech, isn't he?

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to her while he's sort of staring into the tumble dryer, looking at her under things, I guess.

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And this is the 2nd date, which he interrupts.

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I think what's really terrifically good is the way that he picks up the phone from the TARDIS and then suddenly he screams and puts down a memory worm.

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And that's a very Moffat thing as well, isn't it?

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Using the memory worm to explain the jump from one place to another and why we haven't seen the action.

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Yeah, like...

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We're experiencing the missing time that they've experienced.

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Yeah, like what happens with the silence, right?

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Yeah, same kind of thing.

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Same kind of thing.

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It's very, very cleverly done.

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And it gets you straight into it.

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It's a great way of doing it.

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But I think even if the story were longer, I think you'd still do that, because you don't want to have it all happen twice.

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Well, we do want to happen at all and happen twice, but any different way.

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Yeah.

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And visually, the jump cut really works.

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Yeah, and the direction as a whole really works.

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And, you know, we said Stephen Thompson, it might be 3rd time lucky.

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Douglas McKinnon, I was not swept away by his 1st efforts on the show, which was the Santaran 2-parter from series 4.

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I thought that was a bit ham fisted, actually, but he is director, who comes good as he goes along, and this is expertly done, I think.

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So he he has done the Santaran 2 Pada, he does Power of 3 and Cold War.

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He did listen last week, and maybe that story's kind of worst feature, I think, is probably McKinnon's direction.

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But he does flatline later, which is also good, I think.

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He's kind of hit and miss, but when he hits, he hits.

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Yeah.

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I mean, he's helped long here.

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There's some unmissable things that you would have to do if you were any kind of director and you're directing Doctor Who's heist episode, but he gets them all right.

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Maybe because in this, he's got a lot of references in from other films, the Asians films, particularly. to go to, whereas when he's doing some of those early things like this and Taranti part, he doesn't really know what's going on, how do I do this?

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How do I cover this?

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And that's why it kind of all looks a bit crappy.

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It's a shorthand that is known in in production in filmmaking that you can go to with a heist movie.

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Exactly, but you can get these beats.

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Yeah, but we need to do those beats.

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Otherwise it isn't doing what we want it to do.

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Yeah, exactly.

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The tone meeting is evident on Shantar and two-paso.

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It's like, what tone are they going for?

184
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We're not sure. never made clear.

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Whereas here, it's absolutely evident from the outset what you should be going for.

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I heard that Steve Thompson decided to do a monster that was a practical effect, and I think that the teller is a pretty good costume.

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Although it doesn't.

188
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From a man in a rubber suit.

189
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

191
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And sort of articulated and things, you know, there's a lot of animatronics or puppetry going on there.

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It's got mandral feet.

193
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Yes, particularly in the final scene where it goes off with Mrs. Teller. you know, into the wilderness.

194
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They've both got mandal feet.

195
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It's a bit heteronormatively reductive.

196
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Well, she is given she her pronouns in the script.

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So I'm going to go with that.

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Her name is Penn.

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It's pen and pen.

200
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Terrible.

201
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The little tails that they have.

202
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Yeah, they do.

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I think the tales are there to cover their butt cracks, actually.

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Modesty.

205
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Modesty.

206
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That's right.

207
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That's right.

208
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But I think that's really good.

209
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And then that enables the bank to be a little bit more impressive, except that it's not, but the lobby is...

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The lobby sets the scene and because it's not one CGI shot.

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You know, it's not nightmare in silver, where you're setting up an entire fairground, then you go into a corner of the studio. because they actually spend some time there and you do get a lot of shots and it's very nicely lit.

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That's all you really need.

213
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Then they can descend into the usual tunnels and vault, which was part of the millennium stadium or whatever.

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Yeah.

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The bits outside the bank in the big forecourt.

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That's rolled D Plus.

217
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All right.

218
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Where, sorry?

219
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The big plaza, like public square, where the torch tower, the tower, the water tower.

220
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Yeah, that's the square outside torchwood.

221
00:15:03.299 --> 00:15:05.759
With a lot of CTI around.

222
00:15:05.820 --> 00:15:09.720
A lot of green screens, GGI around it to cover it up, but that's...

223
00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:12.779
Suppose they just find an open space and then CGI, all the crap around it that they do.

224
00:15:12.899 --> 00:15:15.120
Yeah, they just hang up giant green screens around the square.

225
00:15:15.179 --> 00:15:26.100
Because, I mean, that final scene too, where the doctor and Clara drop Mr. and Mrs. Taylor off at the end. doesn't for a 2nd look like they're actually there, but it's still very well done.

226
00:15:26.220 --> 00:15:27.539
Oh, it's very well done.

227
00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:28.019
Yes, yeah.

228
00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:30.059
Yeah, sort of fairy tale landscape.

229
00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:35.639
I want to know where Mr. and Mrs. Teller are going to get all their food because then they feed off all that mental energy of other creatures.

230
00:15:35.700 --> 00:15:37.799
I don't know, but they were kind of exhausted by all of that.

231
00:15:37.860 --> 00:15:51.120
I mean, that was the kind of idea is that it's part of the way that we sell that Madame Carabrak sauce has been sort of torturing him is by making him upset that he has to listen to all of that noise.

232
00:15:51.179 --> 00:15:53.399
And so now it's just the 2 of them together.

233
00:15:53.460 --> 00:15:54.840
Right, yes, yeah.

234
00:15:54.899 --> 00:16:02.220
Like they may feed off mental energy, but she's been forcing him to use his food source to kill people.

235
00:16:02.820 --> 00:16:07.259
Another example of that sort of flattened head that we saw in Bells of St.

236
00:16:07.259 --> 00:16:08.940
John. and silence in the library.

237
00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:10.139
It's like, let's do that effect again.

238
00:16:10.200 --> 00:16:18.480
Yeah, he gets really into that because he does it in Husbands of River song and then again in the following episode, I think, too.

239
00:16:18.539 --> 00:16:22.139
So he's constantly doing sort of CGI heads.

240
00:16:22.200 --> 00:16:25.860
And notice that I think there's 4 people on the screen.

241
00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:39.299
There's the guy who gets attacked by the teller in the lobby and then we see a screen with him and and 2 of them have shaved heads in order to make that read more clearly.

242
00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:40.860
Watch out, Nathan and James.

243
00:16:42.179 --> 00:16:44.940
This is why this is why you're keeping your hair.

244
00:16:46.019 --> 00:16:48.480
That can't be used for that kind of effect.

245
00:16:48.539 --> 00:17:07.019
But going back to the heist movie thing, the other thing that makes it a sort of real heist movie is that, you know, in the oceans films, you know, when they're robbing a casino or whatever the hell it is, and George Clooney is telling you about all the stuff that they have to get through, there's always these ridiculously over the top security measures, bizarre security measures that they have to get through.

246
00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:09.960
And we do have that with the breathing thing and the DNA.

247
00:17:10.019 --> 00:17:12.000
Yeah, you get incinerated if you...

248
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:18.180
And the special skills, you know, like everyone in the... brings a particular thing, yes.

249
00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:19.079
Yeah, yeah.

250
00:17:19.140 --> 00:17:22.319
So we have Sabra disguising herself as a white guy.

251
00:17:22.380 --> 00:17:24.480
And it's kind of actually funny.

252
00:17:24.539 --> 00:17:29.519
You know, he's this sort of very straight laced looking grey-haired person about Capaldi's age.

253
00:17:29.579 --> 00:17:31.019
He looks like Capaldi.

254
00:17:31.079 --> 00:17:44.339
But he looks much less kind of, like, Capaldi still manages to look like the doctor, you know, hair of an idiot in context with someone else in the same shot as him sort of roughly the same age.

255
00:17:44.460 --> 00:17:52.559
Again, I think we're continuing to with giving Capaldi really sort of fantastic dismissive lines.

256
00:17:52.859 --> 00:18:03.900
There's that thing where they're all sort of terrified. going to be blown up in the room and Clara points out, you know, if we let the bomb off in here, we'll all be killed or whatever.

257
00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:10.799
And he says something about pessimism and, you know, kind of wrecking the group's morale and stuff.

258
00:18:10.859 --> 00:18:22.680
Like, I think all of that works really well with Capoldi, and I'm not finding that that portrayal of the character is tiresome or needs retooling.

259
00:18:22.740 --> 00:18:24.299
No, it's great.

260
00:18:24.359 --> 00:18:38.220
I think the stuff which is a little bit greeting on that is where I don't know if there's some residual channelling of Malcolm Tucker in there, but in the scene where the doctor is putting it all together, and he has that line shut up, shutterty up, up, up.

261
00:18:38.279 --> 00:18:39.119
It's a little bit.

262
00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:39.720
Oh, come on.

263
00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:41.160
That's tiny, whiny.

264
00:18:41.220 --> 00:18:42.000
But it is...

265
00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:45.000
That's more that's more Moffat than than...

266
00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:46.559
It is, but it's Moffat doing Malcolm Tucker.

267
00:18:46.619 --> 00:18:47.400
It is, yeah, yeah.

268
00:18:47.460 --> 00:18:53.099
Well, I think isn't isn't the kind of the promise of Capaldi, wasn't it kind of being a bit Malcolm Tucker anyway?

269
00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:55.500
He's a bit aggressive and, you know, telling people to shut up.

270
00:18:55.559 --> 00:18:57.720
And then D shut up when he wants them to speak.

271
00:18:57.779 --> 00:18:58.859
Well, I did like that.

272
00:18:58.920 --> 00:18:59.640
I love that.

273
00:18:59.700 --> 00:19:00.359
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

274
00:19:00.420 --> 00:19:01.440
You D shut up.

275
00:19:01.500 --> 00:19:01.740
Yes.

276
00:19:01.740 --> 00:19:02.759
I do.

277
00:19:04.980 --> 00:19:12.000
But I love I love the throwaway insults because they're not really, they're not, they're not overly cutting.

278
00:19:12.059 --> 00:19:13.079
They're not they're not too cutting.

279
00:19:13.140 --> 00:19:17.400
They're just really rapid fire quips and I do think they work really, really well.

280
00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:20.279
I actually don't mind.

281
00:19:20.339 --> 00:19:26.400
I find myself this time through not really minding the insults about Clara's appearance.

282
00:19:26.460 --> 00:19:33.839
And it's partly, I think, because Clara knows she's hot. you know, and she's looking at her own bum and stuff like that.

283
00:19:33.900 --> 00:19:40.920
You know, Capaldi doesn't respond to the outfit that she turns up in... why he's taller.

284
00:19:40.980 --> 00:19:42.900
Why is your face coloured in?

285
00:19:43.319 --> 00:19:46.200
Is this the episode undermining her in any way?

286
00:19:46.259 --> 00:19:49.019
No, because he looks like an idiot. a joke against you.

287
00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:49.619
Yes, exactly.

288
00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:55.980
You know, we had that joke with Matt Smith who couldn't tell that Amy was pregnant in Amy's choice.

289
00:19:56.039 --> 00:19:57.180
He didn't know what that was.

290
00:19:57.240 --> 00:20:00.059
And so we just have that with Capaldi.

291
00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:02.220
And I think you kind of need something like that.

292
00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:09.599
Like, I think that's partly motivated from a desire not to have any kind of sexual attraction between them.

293
00:20:09.660 --> 00:20:11.759
It makes it clear that nothing's going to go on.

294
00:20:11.819 --> 00:20:12.660
Yeah.

295
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:15.779
So it's a nice refreshing change from that sort of tenant era.

296
00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:17.640
But also it's just easy laughs.

297
00:20:17.700 --> 00:20:20.220
I mean, it's the same trick that Moffat does with Stracts.

298
00:20:20.279 --> 00:20:23.640
The thing that makes Strax funny is he's completely blithe to everything about him.

299
00:20:23.700 --> 00:20:25.440
He can't tell if Clara is a girl or a boy.

300
00:20:25.500 --> 00:20:28.019
Yeah, can't tell if she's wearing a hat or a coat.

301
00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:30.420
The one with the not the one with the enormous head.

302
00:20:30.539 --> 00:20:34.500
It is all sort of reminiscent of the, you're a very beautiful woman problem.

303
00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:37.079
Yes, I think that that's the genesis of it actually.

304
00:20:37.140 --> 00:20:37.680
Yeah, yeah.

305
00:20:49.980 --> 00:20:56.160
It had been long enough since I watched this that I actually forgot the twist.

306
00:20:56.220 --> 00:20:57.599
Yes, me too.

307
00:20:57.660 --> 00:20:59.460
And so...

308
00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:02.880
Yeah, well, I think it's a reasonable twist, and we have had it before.

309
00:21:02.940 --> 00:21:06.059
I don't mean the twist, the doctor's the architect.

310
00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:14.819
I did remember that and I remember that he'd organised it, although perhaps not quite to what extent he'd done it, but it's the shredders, the molecular shredders.

311
00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:19.019
And I actually genuinely, this time for a little while thought that Sabre had been killed.

312
00:21:19.079 --> 00:21:19.799
Yeah.

313
00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:41.940
And that's the other point in the episode where the, is the doctor a good person thing comes up because I think the doctor's quite reasonable to round on Cy and tell him we're not going to worry about Sabra's death right now because we need to do this thing in order to stay alive ourselves.

314
00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:45.720
And it's certainly a thing that I can imagine Tom's doctor saying.

315
00:21:45.779 --> 00:21:49.019
It doesn't seem too excessive or too callous.

316
00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:50.400
Olympian detachment.

317
00:21:50.460 --> 00:21:51.900
Yeah, but it's also...

318
00:21:51.900 --> 00:21:53.400
We don't have time for this now.

319
00:21:53.460 --> 00:21:54.960
It's not the afterwards.

320
00:21:55.019 --> 00:21:56.039
It's the beforehand.

321
00:21:56.099 --> 00:22:08.940
It's the if we assume that the character genuinely believes that this is effectively a suicide pill because the fate you are about to suffer is worse than killing yourself right now.

322
00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:15.480
It was that that I was a bit worried about the way he hands at the thing and, you know, the exit strategy and so on.

323
00:22:15.539 --> 00:22:16.619
I found that a bit.

324
00:22:16.619 --> 00:22:22.259
I'd like to think that he actually knows that this is actually a teleport or strongly suspects that this is a teleport.

325
00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:26.700
The same thing in Into the Dalek, where that other soldier gets vaporised.

326
00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:29.220
A couple of them get vaporised by the antibodies.

327
00:22:29.220 --> 00:22:33.000
And the doctor doesn't in advance, the doctor doesn't seem to care about it.

328
00:22:33.059 --> 00:22:36.599
I think that is different to afterwards saying, we can't deal with this now, we need to move on.

329
00:22:36.660 --> 00:22:37.500
Yeah, yeah.

330
00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:40.500
Although, I mean, he does in Into the Dart.

331
00:22:40.619 --> 00:22:41.940
He does say he was dead already.

332
00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:43.440
There was nothing I could do about it.

333
00:22:43.500 --> 00:22:52.559
And then in the second, the 2nd time he's there, actually comforting her and reassuring her that he's going to make her sacrifice worthwhile.

334
00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:54.900
And that's the flip in that episode.

335
00:22:55.200 --> 00:23:02.819
Here, I think that's the bit where Cy kind of gets terribly cross and tells him off and stuff like that.

336
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:05.759
But I don't think he's being that much of a problem here.

337
00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:09.059
No, and it's like any early doctor story.

338
00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:12.900
We can look at the example of robot with Tom, we were talking about just a moment ago.

339
00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:15.180
Everything's a bit over-egged.

340
00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:19.079
They're coming in a bit strong on everything and then they sort out what works and it settles down.

341
00:23:19.140 --> 00:23:21.720
So that element of Capaldi stays all the way through.

342
00:23:21.779 --> 00:23:31.920
And I'm thinking of the moment in thin ice where Bill tells him off because the guy's being dragged into the ice and he's got the Sonic and he makes the guy believe that if he can just chuck him the Sonic, maybe he can save him.

343
00:23:31.980 --> 00:23:33.660
But after he's like, no, there was no saving him.

344
00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:34.799
I just didn't want to lose the sonic.

345
00:23:34.859 --> 00:23:36.420
I quite like that.

346
00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:37.319
That's good.

347
00:23:37.380 --> 00:23:38.700
So it does stay, doesn't it?

348
00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:40.200
That does stay all the way through.

349
00:23:40.259 --> 00:23:42.480
And I like that as well.

350
00:23:42.539 --> 00:24:01.079
I think there's hints of it with Eccleston too, where the Rose Eccleston relationship, you know, Rose is supposed to bring the sort of human caring and the doctor has a more alien detached view on things.

351
00:24:01.140 --> 00:24:04.200
So it's not without precedent in Doctor Who.

352
00:24:04.259 --> 00:24:13.920
It's a pragmatism that the character has, but also a lack of time to waste in these situations with the humankindness.

353
00:24:13.980 --> 00:24:17.819
Yeah, which it sells the I'm not even remotely human.

354
00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:18.599
Yeah.

355
00:24:18.660 --> 00:24:22.680
But it's always the doctor sees the big picture and the companion's always seeing the micro picture.

356
00:24:22.740 --> 00:24:44.099
Yeah, I mean, I'm just trying to kind of work out how this is different from, and this has come up before, but how is this different from Colin, for instance, because they try and make the doctor unlikeable deliberately in that era, but I don't think they do it as skilfully or carefully.

357
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:45.960
I take issue with that premise.

358
00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:49.440
I don't think they're ever trying to make Colin Baker's doctor unlikeable.

359
00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:53.039
What they're trying to make him is spiky, which is the same as what they're doing.

360
00:24:53.099 --> 00:24:53.519
Yeah.

361
00:24:53.519 --> 00:25:00.720
Yeah, sort of... a slightly misbegotten idea of that that's what Hartnell was like when in fact Hartnell was nothing like that.

362
00:25:00.779 --> 00:25:01.799
Cuddly, as we know.

363
00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:02.819
Well, that's not true, actually.

364
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:04.859
He was like that at times He was cuddly at times.

365
00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:11.279
Yeah, but was also going to throw them off the ship and, you know, was going to, you know, kill the caveman with a rock.

366
00:25:11.339 --> 00:25:14.759
Well, that 80s conception of, you know, the doctor used to be edging.

367
00:25:14.819 --> 00:25:22.980
We want to get back to that is all taken from Hartnell in the 1st couple of episodes before he's warmed up to Ian and Barbara, and we see that actually he does like these humans.

368
00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:23.700
Yeah.

369
00:25:23.700 --> 00:25:30.059
So it's all taken from that initial harsh thing, which they lose in the program very quickly because it doesn't quite work.

370
00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:37.740
And I think in the colon era and here, they lose those really rough edges quite quickly because they recognise, again, it doesn't work.

371
00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:40.200
You need a softer form of that to be acceptable.

372
00:25:40.259 --> 00:25:50.160
I think too, that the writing is different as well because Capolda gets given really, really funny lines.

373
00:25:50.220 --> 00:25:54.119
Like Capaldi is funny and those lines are well written.

374
00:25:54.180 --> 00:25:56.759
Molfat's conception of it, not Anthony Stevens.

375
00:25:56.819 --> 00:25:58.140
Yeah, that's right Yeah, yeah.

376
00:25:58.200 --> 00:26:04.380
I think that's where it falls down slightly in the Colin Baker era is that the lines aren't as clever or funny.

377
00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:13.019
But nevertheless, I still, and I still maintain to this day, I was still absolutely loving that portrayal in 985, 6, et cetera. absolutely adoring it.

378
00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:22.019
So I think it's an excuse that's added later as to why the era was less successful or, in fact, why the program had been cancelled, which, of course, was for completely other reasons.

379
00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:23.279
I agree.

380
00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:31.259
And in this instance, it's a question of a very talented writer, like Moffat, recognising that perhaps it's gone a little bit too far and pulling it back to somewhere, which is good.

381
00:26:31.319 --> 00:26:39.720
Whereas when they try to do that in the 80s when they try to make Colin all cuddly and lose the abrasive edge completely in season 23, the characterisation goes off the cliff.

382
00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:40.920
Yes, it's terrible.

383
00:26:40.980 --> 00:26:44.279
It looks like it's an overcorrection in a way.

384
00:26:44.339 --> 00:26:45.000
Yeah.

385
00:26:45.059 --> 00:26:53.400
I mean, I would have said the starkest difference between those 2 characterisations, the doctors, that you don't make a Capaldi strangle Clara.

386
00:26:53.460 --> 00:26:54.059
Yeah.

387
00:26:54.119 --> 00:26:54.599
Yeah.

388
00:26:54.660 --> 00:26:55.680
Why not?

389
00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:56.579
We ask...

390
00:26:56.940 --> 00:27:01.619
He does leave her to the machinations of the Clockwork Man.

391
00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:04.440
Yeah, yeah, that's a striking moment.

392
00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:06.539
That is effectively the same moment.

393
00:27:06.599 --> 00:27:08.519
Yeah, but done, done better done.

394
00:27:08.579 --> 00:27:17.400
Well, because the thing is that Clara knows it turns out that the doctor or is very certain that the doctor hasn't abandoned her.

395
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:21.720
She doesn't think the doctor's abandoned her and she reaches her hand back and guess what?

396
00:27:21.779 --> 00:27:22.440
The doctor was there.

397
00:27:22.500 --> 00:27:24.240
She doesn't believe he would.

398
00:27:24.299 --> 00:27:35.339
But we do, but that sort of thing happens all throughout, you know, the history of this program and other programs where for a moment you're supposed to be led to believe that the hero has turned evil.

399
00:27:35.400 --> 00:27:43.500
You know, I mean, for God's sake, the doctor, one of the latter episodes of the war games, the cliffhanger is that he's basically handed them all over to the war. you know.

400
00:27:43.559 --> 00:27:45.000
And it's a cliffhanger.

401
00:27:45.059 --> 00:27:49.200
I mean, do we really seriously believe the doctor has changed to be evil?

402
00:27:49.259 --> 00:27:50.339
I mean, no, of course not.

403
00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:52.980
And so it's just a story thing, you know.

404
00:27:53.039 --> 00:28:07.440
I think like the version of Tom's doctor in Horror Fang Rock is the one that I keep mentioning, where he's utterly unsympathetic and utterly unsentimental, because he has a job as well.

405
00:28:07.500 --> 00:28:08.700
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

406
00:28:08.819 --> 00:28:09.359
Yes.

407
00:28:09.420 --> 00:28:19.619
Yeah, I can imagine Capaldi delivering the, you know, there's a monster outside and by morning we may all be deadline with that big smile at the end.

408
00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:26.640
Like, I think that that's absolutely something that a very good version of the program has managed to do successfully.

409
00:28:26.700 --> 00:28:30.359
And so I don't think it was a mistake for Moffatt to go back and try and do it again.

410
00:28:30.420 --> 00:28:33.539
No, and it's not an easy progression through this season as well.

411
00:28:33.660 --> 00:28:34.920
It kind of bobs up and down.

412
00:28:34.980 --> 00:28:44.579
It's not like they start strong and then get it right, because as we'll see from next week's episode, which might be the worst iteration, like this version of the Capoldi Doctor.

413
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:46.200
They're still flailing around a little bit.

414
00:28:46.259 --> 00:28:47.160
Yeah, yeah.

415
00:28:47.220 --> 00:28:55.799
Well, I mean, each episode has done this differently in a different way and some things get tried, which never get tried again.

416
00:28:55.859 --> 00:28:58.859
And different right, a different directed day.

417
00:28:58.859 --> 00:29:07.200
And, you know, they perhaps realise after the fact, oh, actually, we did, that didn't quite work, but it only looks bad in the edit suite, and it's too late to do anything about it.

418
00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:10.079
It's a nice refreshing change though.

419
00:29:10.140 --> 00:29:35.039
I mean, when you have a program which changes the lead actor all the time and changing the character of the lead actor all the time, I think it is refreshing and it's something that they definitely needed to do because after you had slightly irascible Eccleston, you have the kind of the, you know, thinks you're so hot, tenant kind of doctor, then you have the public school boy, Matt Smith, I think this is a perfect next doctor from that.

420
00:29:35.099 --> 00:29:55.259
Yeah, and I still think he has lots of things in common with Matt Smith's doctor because, as I've said, over and over again, you know, both of Russell's doctors are Russell and both of Moffatt's doctors are Moffatt, you know, the smartest man in the room, but possibly a horrible person or someone who suspects that he's a horrible person.

421
00:29:55.319 --> 00:29:57.180
This man in the room and Scottish.

422
00:29:57.240 --> 00:29:58.200
Scottish.

423
00:29:58.619 --> 00:30:01.859
See, that's the other Colin Baker thing, isn't it?

424
00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:03.720
It's like J&T cast himself.

425
00:30:03.779 --> 00:30:16.740
And Moffatt casts himself as well, which is why I think he ups his game with the witty dialogue as well. funny, isn't it, how J&T casts Davison, who is the opposite of what J&T is.

426
00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:20.220
And Matt Smith, in many ways, is kind of opposite what Moffatt is.

427
00:30:20.279 --> 00:30:22.980
And then they just go, oh, well, let's have to be me.

428
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:26.700
What does that say about Chipnall?

429
00:30:33.539 --> 00:30:42.299
But going back to the twist at the end, or twist, the various twists in that final sequence, I still feel unsatisfied with the way it resolves.

430
00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:43.259
I want more.

431
00:30:43.380 --> 00:30:44.220
I think they could have been more.

432
00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:52.740
Yes, it is all very noble for it to all be about rescuing the Teller and Mrs. Teller, but I think there's more there that could have been utilised in this concept.

433
00:30:52.799 --> 00:31:04.980
I think what the issue is, is that we don't know what led Mrs. Carabraxos to have a change of heart, that too.

434
00:31:05.039 --> 00:31:06.299
Where does that come from?

435
00:31:06.420 --> 00:31:08.759
Is it meant to just be old age?

436
00:31:08.819 --> 00:31:10.140
Yeah, sort of.

437
00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:10.920
Yeah.

438
00:31:10.980 --> 00:31:15.539
Oh, shout out to the ageing makeup too, which I think is actually not too bad.

439
00:31:15.599 --> 00:31:16.920
It was actually pretty good.

440
00:31:16.980 --> 00:31:18.720
But that's what Keely Hawes looks like.

441
00:31:18.779 --> 00:31:20.940
So it's the earlier scenes that are a makeup.

442
00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:25.920
So Keely Hawes is fantastic, obviously, really great.

443
00:31:25.980 --> 00:31:29.519
This is the program that made me like Keeley Hawes.

444
00:31:29.579 --> 00:31:30.960
I never liked her previously.

445
00:31:31.019 --> 00:31:33.900
I thought she gave no, well, like I came after.

446
00:31:34.140 --> 00:31:40.319
She gave a series of cold, unlikeable performances in characters that shouldn't have been that.

447
00:31:40.380 --> 00:31:42.119
So I'm thinking of ashes to ashes.

448
00:31:42.180 --> 00:31:56.160
I'm thinking of that awful reboot of upstairs downstairs that the BBC did where she was the lady of the manor and utterly unlikeable. whereas the character was written to be likeable, but for some reason was this ice queen in the hands of Keeley Hawes.

449
00:31:56.220 --> 00:32:02.400
But come to this, she finally channels her inner diva, and from this onwards, I've liked every performance she's ever given.

450
00:32:02.460 --> 00:32:08.940
I actually like Madame Carabraxos more than I like Mrs. Del Fox, I have to say.

451
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:14.099
And Mrs. Delfox seemed to me to just be a kind of retread of Miss Foster.

452
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:15.839
Oh, for partner, he crying.

453
00:32:15.900 --> 00:32:16.440
Yeah, yeah.

454
00:32:16.500 --> 00:32:18.420
Even down to the glasses and things.

455
00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:24.359
And she does a sort of Helen A feeding Fifi moment with the teller as well.

456
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:29.880
She doesn't really interact with the teller at all as Mrs. Carabraxos.

457
00:32:29.940 --> 00:32:32.880
She talks about him, but we don't see it.

458
00:32:32.940 --> 00:32:40.500
And so there's no kind of hint about why it is she has this change of heart on her deathbed.

459
00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:50.279
And I also think too, like people think that Moffat is less political than Russell, and I don't think that that's true.

460
00:32:50.339 --> 00:32:55.859
And Capaldi will go on to be in things like oxygen and thin ice.

461
00:32:55.920 --> 00:33:04.559
And here we have the richest woman in the galaxy and the most secure bank in the universe or whatever.

462
00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:09.900
And still there's no politics, no real discussion of anything like that.

463
00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:22.920
And maybe that's not what we're doing here, but given that there's not much else going on, I just kind of feel that there is something missing from the end from the end there.

464
00:33:22.980 --> 00:33:40.019
I mean, in terms of the policies of it, I think it's something that you can kind of bring your own conclusions too, when you watch it, I think the problem with some of those other instances of politics that come to the program a bit later, the thin ice and oxygen, there is so heavy handed, it is so heavy handed.

465
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:40.980
It's pathetic.

466
00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:46.019
It's much better to just kind of do a gentle thing and gentle...

467
00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:48.180
Isn't your favourite story of the dream death?

468
00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:49.440
Yeah, exactly.

469
00:33:49.500 --> 00:33:50.759
No, but it's not.

470
00:33:50.759 --> 00:33:53.220
It's handled with more subtlety.

471
00:33:53.279 --> 00:33:57.599
The whole point of it, you're supposed to tell it through allegories and through through parallels and so on like that.

472
00:33:57.660 --> 00:33:59.819
And I think that's what you can be doing in something like this one.

473
00:33:59.880 --> 00:34:06.119
I think I'm quite happy that this episode is not actually about anything other than just trying to do a good keeper.

474
00:34:06.180 --> 00:34:07.559
I like that.

475
00:34:07.619 --> 00:34:09.179
Yeah, yeah.

476
00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:09.599
Yeah.

477
00:34:09.659 --> 00:34:11.280
But I still needed more twists at the end.

478
00:34:11.340 --> 00:34:12.840
Or still something. just needed more.

479
00:34:12.900 --> 00:34:14.639
Yeah, I mean, it's still Stephen Thompson.

480
00:34:14.699 --> 00:34:18.300
And like I was saying about those earlier episodes, which was just one premise, which was undeveloped.

481
00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:21.059
This is one premise which is partially developed.

482
00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:21.539
Yeah.

483
00:34:21.539 --> 00:34:22.079
Yeah.

484
00:34:22.139 --> 00:34:22.679
Yeah.

485
00:34:22.739 --> 00:34:25.019
Going back to Kelly Hall's performance, though.

486
00:34:25.079 --> 00:34:30.719
I mean, there is a, it's nice that there's a meaningful difference between her. and her is the underling.

487
00:34:30.780 --> 00:34:39.480
And in fact, the Calibraxus performance does feel like she's playing a bit more of a real person, whereas the assistant does seem like I was thinking, oh, she's very cardboard.

488
00:34:39.539 --> 00:34:40.980
Well, she's cardboard because she's a client.

489
00:34:41.039 --> 00:34:42.000
So that does work.

490
00:34:42.059 --> 00:34:45.719
But I am sort of sick of these cartoony characters.

491
00:34:45.780 --> 00:34:52.019
You know, the women all dressed up with the sort of severe hair and the big glasses and walking also precisely.

492
00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:54.059
It is all quite one dimensional.

493
00:34:54.119 --> 00:35:07.380
Well, yeah, and I think they're kind of accusing the counterfeit guy of being naughty and, you know, going down to feed the tailor, like, the chief caretaker going downstairs and feeding Cryagnon.

494
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:10.500
Like all of that stuff seems a little bit played.

495
00:35:10.559 --> 00:35:12.179
Exactly at this point.

496
00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:13.380
That's the word for it.

497
00:35:13.440 --> 00:35:16.320
I want to see, I want to see reasons for the villainy.

498
00:35:16.380 --> 00:35:18.480
I don't want to see just cardboard villainies.

499
00:35:18.599 --> 00:35:18.960
Yeah.

500
00:35:19.019 --> 00:35:23.699
Whereas actually Carobraxos performance where she's actually really quite into it.

501
00:35:23.820 --> 00:35:28.860
Like it seems to be a much, much more natural performance. and she seems much more charming.

502
00:35:29.099 --> 00:35:30.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

503
00:35:30.780 --> 00:35:31.380
That's what you want.

504
00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:32.039
Yeah, exactly.

505
00:35:32.099 --> 00:35:34.079
And that's natural just knocked up a bit.

506
00:35:34.139 --> 00:35:34.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

507
00:35:34.980 --> 00:35:35.280
Yeah.

508
00:35:41.400 --> 00:35:46.860
We haven't talked about the hardware going into this sort of the retro hardware going into size head.

509
00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:48.420
Oh, my God, a lot of USPA.

510
00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:51.179
Yes, he used the AI for it. which is great.

511
00:35:51.239 --> 00:35:57.000
I mean, I know it should all be Wi-Fi or something, but it does make it so much more, you know, gritty, doesn't it?

512
00:35:57.059 --> 00:36:01.559
It looks like at one point he's upgrading his max memory capacity.

513
00:36:01.619 --> 00:36:02.579
Yeah, yeah.

514
00:36:02.579 --> 00:36:04.019
I've done that actually.

515
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:07.380
That's a... no, no.

516
00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:11.039
Yeah, I mean, all of that stuff is sort of terribly cute, I think.

517
00:36:11.099 --> 00:36:15.539
Yeah, it's very retro traditional elements of this story.

518
00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:19.079
So all of that's quite fun, but also in the mounting of it, which is pretty good.

519
00:36:19.139 --> 00:36:24.000
You have that hoary old Blake 7 thing of we're on a different level because it's a different colour.

520
00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:26.460
I really like.

521
00:36:26.760 --> 00:36:32.400
There's not a great big kind of 7 behind little sinks, you know, being on what level they're going to.

522
00:36:32.460 --> 00:36:35.460
I was just expecting Gan to die any minute.

523
00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:36.360
Yeah, yeah.

524
00:36:36.420 --> 00:36:38.219
Surfland was going to slap Travis.

525
00:36:38.280 --> 00:36:41.820
I paid good money to see Cy on that jungle gym.

526
00:36:41.880 --> 00:36:48.659
So I actually think that that part of the episode is visually a bit dull.

527
00:36:49.260 --> 00:37:01.800
So we've had the sort of very impressive lobby upstairs and even that sort of room that you go into to get your case delivered is actually sort of quite nice or whatever.

528
00:37:01.860 --> 00:37:10.019
But then I was just getting very sort of 90s red dwarf vibes, you know, and we're in a factory with various gels and stuff.

529
00:37:10.079 --> 00:37:13.199
It's all shot in the same place that 42 was shot.

530
00:37:13.199 --> 00:37:16.800
Yeah, yeah, the underworld of smile.

531
00:37:16.860 --> 00:37:19.500
Yeah, it's just pipes with a bit of dry ice.

532
00:37:19.559 --> 00:37:26.519
It's like a classic series story where, you know, all the big location filming and stuff is all in episode one and then there's been an episode two.

533
00:37:26.579 --> 00:37:29.159
The time you get to episode three, they're just in the 3 sets in the studio.

534
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:34.440
Most of this is filmed in an ex-electronics factory.

535
00:37:34.500 --> 00:37:34.920
Okay.

536
00:37:34.980 --> 00:37:36.900
Maybe that's where they got all the tech for science.

537
00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:39.000
Yeah, I just found it lying around the ground.

538
00:37:39.059 --> 00:37:40.800
Ooh, we can make a great costume out of these.

539
00:37:40.860 --> 00:37:41.219
Exactly.

540
00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:47.099
Yeah, so I think that that's a little bit tedious and a bit cheap looking, I think.

541
00:37:47.219 --> 00:37:49.380
You've got the same.

542
00:37:49.380 --> 00:37:49.920
Generic.

543
00:37:50.039 --> 00:37:50.400
Yeah.

544
00:37:50.460 --> 00:38:04.440
Whereas, I think that the, like once we go into the vault and we start getting the goodies for Si and Sabre, you know, in the, in the things, that looks really great, you know, and then where we finally meet Mrs. Carabraxos is pretty great.

545
00:38:04.500 --> 00:38:13.739
I don't know whether the word is lazy or unimaginative, but it's one of those 2 things, which is why I think we end up with the that in between part being so...

546
00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:16.380
And it's just the gels as well.

547
00:38:16.500 --> 00:38:19.380
Super 90s, isn't it?

548
00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:21.659
Yeah, it is, we have a boring set.

549
00:38:21.719 --> 00:38:25.019
Let's try and make it look more interesting by making everything yellow.

550
00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:27.360
And you don't really get a sense of place.

551
00:38:27.420 --> 00:38:28.980
You don't get any sense of where you are.

552
00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:42.360
And I think that's the failing of the direction there is that, say, in pressure point in Blake 7, at least you, it's supposed to be, and that, I'm not saying that's great, by any means, but it is, it's supposed to, it's Blake 7.

553
00:38:42.420 --> 00:38:42.960
Of course it's good.

554
00:38:43.019 --> 00:38:47.639
But at least that's showing the descent through different levels through the colour.

555
00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:51.599
In this, there's like, it's that sense of place is lost.

556
00:38:51.659 --> 00:38:53.699
There's no indication that these are different levels.

557
00:38:53.760 --> 00:38:59.639
They're just different coloured corridors, possibly on the same floor, possibly flaws away from each other.

558
00:38:59.699 --> 00:39:01.320
You don't really know what's going on.

559
00:39:01.380 --> 00:39:02.039
It's a mess.

560
00:39:02.099 --> 00:39:04.980
No, there's no sense of where you are within the complex.

561
00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:07.320
And even the script does that.

562
00:39:07.380 --> 00:39:09.599
Let's split up for space reason.

563
00:39:11.880 --> 00:39:14.280
That's the title of the episode.

564
00:39:15.059 --> 00:39:16.800
Which is good.

565
00:39:16.860 --> 00:39:18.900
I mean, we weren't missing a line to lampshader.

566
00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:23.639
You needed Ms. Dell Fox to say something like guards to red level, guards to red level.

567
00:39:23.699 --> 00:39:24.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

568
00:39:24.420 --> 00:39:29.340
Actually, what's missing is a crappy model shot where the camera pans down to the next bit or something.

569
00:39:29.400 --> 00:39:31.139
It's like a revelation of the Darl.

570
00:39:31.199 --> 00:39:32.159
Yes, yes, yes.

571
00:39:32.219 --> 00:39:38.639
Well, given that he's doing those sorts of wipes and strange things to go in between scenes because he's being Guy Ritchie.

572
00:39:38.699 --> 00:39:42.780
That would have worked actually quite well if we went down and saw them on another floor.

573
00:39:42.840 --> 00:39:46.019
Yeah, then you could have had that sort of little caption. do not adjust just set.

574
00:39:46.079 --> 00:39:49.320
All we needed was a voiceover going, Tarkis.

575
00:39:51.780 --> 00:39:54.000
I mean, I do really like it.

576
00:39:54.059 --> 00:39:58.739
I think we are being quite negative at this moment, but I am thoroughly entertained by it.

577
00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:00.960
I think there's a lot.

578
00:40:01.019 --> 00:40:07.980
Well, no, we are talking more negatively than positively just because, you know, we're picking up on those floors that because we want it to be better.

579
00:40:08.039 --> 00:40:11.579
I think too, in the context of the season.

580
00:40:11.639 --> 00:40:17.820
Like last week, we've been really kind of astoundingly experimental.

581
00:40:17.820 --> 00:40:23.940
And this week being so Trad is that, well, maybe it's not Trad.

582
00:40:23.940 --> 00:40:24.840
It's not really Trad.

583
00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:27.000
It's quite, the program's never done this.

584
00:40:27.059 --> 00:40:28.199
Yeah, yeah, that's true.

585
00:40:28.380 --> 00:40:32.519
And it's not just the show's never done a heist, even though it hasn't.

586
00:40:32.579 --> 00:40:38.280
It hasn't done the thing where we wake up having lost our memory and we have to work out what's happening.

587
00:40:38.340 --> 00:40:42.300
Well, it comes in horror kind of uses the same sorts of parts in a way.

588
00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:51.000
So we have, in the 45 minute era, we have kind of trial these sorts of how do we get to into the story quickly methods.

589
00:40:51.119 --> 00:41:03.900
At other times, it's devices which I find become very tiring, like, you know, using things like the psychic paper and so on to get through doors and get to make sure episode one is only actually the 1st 2 minutes of the episode.

590
00:41:04.079 --> 00:41:08.039
Yeah, the doctor doesn't use the psychic paper too. very refreshing.

591
00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:09.659
He uses his eyebrows, doesn't he?

592
00:41:09.659 --> 00:41:11.699
to immediately command their respect.

593
00:41:11.760 --> 00:41:14.820
Yes, and there's actually very little Sonic screwdriver magic wand.

594
00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:19.139
Yeah, yeah. as well, which makes it feel feel like it's a bit different.

595
00:41:19.260 --> 00:41:21.659
No, I'm all for doing different things like this.

596
00:41:21.719 --> 00:41:26.460
Yeah, and I think it might be a mistake to try to overlay more on this episode than is there.

597
00:41:26.519 --> 00:41:30.000
I think it just sets out to be an action. to be what it is.

598
00:41:30.059 --> 00:41:32.219
Yeah, and we should appreciate a lot.

599
00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:32.519
I do.

600
00:41:32.579 --> 00:41:33.119
Yeah, yeah.

601
00:41:33.179 --> 00:41:33.659
Yeah, absolutely.

602
00:41:43.139 --> 00:41:49.320
I mean, are we enjoying the thing which kind of started in the Matt Smith era, where the companions aren't actually travelling with the doctor.

603
00:41:49.380 --> 00:41:53.340
The companions are people that the doctor just goes and picks up to then do this week's episode.

604
00:41:53.400 --> 00:41:55.619
I actually really, really like that.

605
00:41:55.679 --> 00:41:57.780
I think it will come into its own next week.

606
00:41:57.840 --> 00:42:03.539
I think the opening sequence of next week is that done just spectacularly.

607
00:42:03.599 --> 00:42:04.440
It was like the power of three.

608
00:42:04.500 --> 00:42:05.400
Yeah, yeah.

609
00:42:05.460 --> 00:42:14.639
But I do kind of like that, and particularly since we've gone back to the conception of the doctor as the crazy old man who gets you into scrapes.

610
00:42:14.699 --> 00:42:16.500
I think that works really well.

611
00:42:16.559 --> 00:42:23.280
He just turns up at an inconvenient time like Uncle Arthur. causes mayhem and then leaves.

612
00:42:23.340 --> 00:42:25.440
Yes, it's the Rick and Morty concern.

613
00:42:25.500 --> 00:42:25.980
Yeah.

614
00:42:26.039 --> 00:42:35.460
But also, it's taking you back to sort of the unit era where you got the idea that Joe and Sarah had home lives and professional lives and weren't actually with the doctor every moment.

615
00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:40.260
They'd have days or weeks, but they just come in and do their job before the doctor spirited them away to.

616
00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:42.420
Yes, but the doctor was there...

617
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:46.380
Yeah, but the difference is the doctor was there too. in the Joe Granty or at least.

618
00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:49.500
Well, he wasn't there when Sarah was selling it to Percy, you know?

619
00:42:49.679 --> 00:42:51.900
No, she had a life.

620
00:42:51.960 --> 00:42:53.159
She was doing that's true.

621
00:42:53.219 --> 00:42:53.880
That is true, actually.

622
00:42:53.940 --> 00:42:56.880
No, it's that beginning of Planet of the Spiders, actually, which is...

623
00:42:56.880 --> 00:42:58.800
But the doctor is at unit HQ.

624
00:42:58.860 --> 00:43:00.719
The doctor is in the offworld at this time.

625
00:43:00.780 --> 00:43:03.840
That's, I think, the difference that we're experiencing here.

626
00:43:03.900 --> 00:43:04.860
But I like, I like the change.

627
00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:05.460
I don't mind it.

628
00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:08.460
I don't want it to go on forever, but it's a nice difference.

629
00:43:08.519 --> 00:43:12.119
And like the calories, you know, the calories you consume with guitar, just don't count.

630
00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:27.599
Well, in fact, last week couldn't have happened without that because, you know, last week we see the doctor going kind of crazy because Clara's not around and sort of having to go and fetch her in order to kind of participate in his mad nonsense.

631
00:43:27.719 --> 00:43:31.019
But it only works as well because the doctor can operate the charters perfectly.

632
00:43:31.079 --> 00:43:32.579
Yeah, which most of the time.

633
00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:34.320
Yeah, which is now the show.

634
00:43:34.380 --> 00:43:35.460
Which is out of the show.

635
00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:35.699
Yeah.

636
00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:38.280
He doesn't just, you know, I can take you anywhere you went. where do you want to go?

637
00:43:38.340 --> 00:43:42.300
And it's never like, oh, sorry, I missed Heathrow Airport by 300 years.

638
00:43:42.300 --> 00:43:45.000
Yeah, sometimes that, but not very often.

639
00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:46.320
Yeah, not very often.

640
00:43:46.380 --> 00:43:47.820
Only when the plot requires it.

641
00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:48.119
Exactly.

642
00:43:48.179 --> 00:43:55.800
Well, but usually there's actually an excuse as to why, like there's some temporal disturbance with why the TARDIS has been thrown off course, blah, blah, blah, isn't there?

643
00:43:55.860 --> 00:43:58.260
Sure, that's just because she wants to take him there this week.

644
00:43:58.320 --> 00:43:58.800
Exactly.

645
00:43:58.800 --> 00:44:05.039
Well, isn't that what they use in the... in this episode where, oh, no, we can't use the TARDIS because of the solar storm or whatever.

646
00:44:05.519 --> 00:44:06.000
Okay, thank you.

647
00:44:06.059 --> 00:44:07.619
In fact, that works really well.

648
00:44:07.679 --> 00:44:16.440
I was surprised by how well the plot fits together because I'm still there going, but can this be right, given what we know?

649
00:44:16.559 --> 00:44:24.480
And then we see the doctor who obviously has the Tartars because we don't have the storm. and sets it all up. before the storm happens.

650
00:44:24.539 --> 00:44:26.519
Yeah, after they do the heist.

651
00:44:26.639 --> 00:44:28.320
Yeah, it's all quite new.

652
00:44:28.380 --> 00:44:32.039
The storm being the thing that causes the plot to work.

653
00:44:32.099 --> 00:44:33.900
That's a clever plot beat.

654
00:44:57.960 --> 00:45:00.539
Well, they Lucille, that's all we have time for this week.

655
00:45:00.599 --> 00:45:05.219
We'll be back next week for television's most upsetting love triangle in the Caretaker.

656
00:45:05.340 --> 00:45:22.739
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us on our website, Flightthroughentirety.com, where you'll find links to our accounts on Facebook, Twitter, and Mastodon, as well as links to our other podcast, Bondfinger, Jody Intetera, Maximum Power, and Untitled Star Trek Project.

657
00:45:22.860 --> 00:45:30.900
Until next time, remember that hatred is just self-hatred directed at other people, which is much more fun, really.

658
00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:33.300
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

659
00:45:33.360 --> 00:45:34.440
Good night.

660
00:45:34.500 --> 00:45:35.219
Good night.

661
00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:36.599
See you soon.

662
00:45:42.719 --> 00:45:47.519
That was Flight through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffith, Simon Moore, and James Selwood.

663
00:45:47.579 --> 00:45:49.800
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

664
00:45:49.860 --> 00:45:56.400
This episode, Mr. and Mrs. Teller, was recorded on the 8th of January 2023 and released on the 14th of May.

665
00:45:57.480 --> 00:46:17.219
After the recent destruction of the Bank of Carabraxos, FDE worldwide would like to announce its new investment account, specifically designed for the discerning Doctor Who fan, and backed by a diversified and profitable portfolio of Argonite Maconite, Jethric, Spectrox, Madronite 15, leucanol, vervoids, and gravel.

666
00:46:20.340 --> 00:46:22.199
Why is there so little to say about?

667
00:46:22.260 --> 00:46:24.179
There's nothing to it, really.

668
00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:25.199
Because it's just a high speed.

669
00:46:25.260 --> 00:46:27.059
Yeah, it doesn't have many pretensions.

670
00:46:27.119 --> 00:46:31.920
And, you know, like even the ongoing saga of what's the doctor like?

671
00:46:31.980 --> 00:46:35.280
We haven't seem to be having a break from that this week as well.

672
00:46:35.340 --> 00:46:38.579
It's thin, but in a good way, like Cassandra.

673
00:46:41.159 --> 00:46:42.659
Yeah.

674
00:46:42.719 --> 00:46:43.559
Yeah.

675
00:46:43.619 --> 00:46:45.840
I mean, I don't know.

676
00:46:45.900 --> 00:46:51.539
We haven't recorded, uh, listen yet, and I think listen is much better.

677
00:46:51.539 --> 00:46:52.320
Far out.

678
00:46:52.380 --> 00:46:52.800
It's good.

679
00:46:52.860 --> 00:46:54.420
It's a bit trippy, listen.

680
00:46:54.480 --> 00:46:56.099
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

681
00:46:56.159 --> 00:46:57.599
It's like a short story.

682
00:46:57.659 --> 00:46:58.980
It's not like a Doctor Who episode.

683
00:46:59.039 --> 00:47:01.260
It's more of the sort of thing that I want.

684
00:47:01.320 --> 00:47:05.460
It's like, no, no, don't just do a four-part episode crammed into a thing, do a 40.

685
00:47:05.820 --> 00:47:06.179
Well, exactly.

686
00:47:06.239 --> 00:47:07.079
TV show.

687
00:47:07.139 --> 00:47:09.900
And that's what you get in in listening in this.

688
00:47:09.900 --> 00:47:12.360
And in something like into Darlic as well.

689
00:47:12.420 --> 00:47:14.159
Use the length and structure to tell.

690
00:47:14.159 --> 00:47:17.820
To tell the right story, the right length, with the right plot beats.

691
00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:29.639
But part of me wonders if the fact that you get very slightly generic stories like this is a reaction to the fact that as Moffat goes on, he becomes more experimental in his own storytelling.

692
00:47:29.699 --> 00:47:39.599
So you get episodes like this, and you'll get something like heaven sent. next year and even that final two-parter in series 10 world and oftentimes when the doctor falls.

693
00:47:39.659 --> 00:47:52.559
And so it's almost like you can't have world enough and time in the doctor falls if you don't have the Empress of Mars before it listens impact is heightened by the fact that you then return to familiar territory.

694
00:47:52.619 --> 00:47:53.880
On both sides of it.

695
00:47:53.940 --> 00:47:55.739
They're fairly straightforward stories.

696
00:47:55.800 --> 00:47:56.820
Yeah, yeah.

697
00:47:56.880 --> 00:47:58.019
Yeah.

698
00:47:58.079 --> 00:48:04.199
Yeah, I was surprised by how impressed by that I was because I hadn't even chosen to go back and rewatch it.

699
00:48:04.260 --> 00:48:04.679
Listen.

700
00:48:04.679 --> 00:48:05.340
Yeah, yeah.

701
00:48:05.400 --> 00:48:07.260
No, I remember loving it at the time.

702
00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:08.699
It's not the bit.

703
00:48:08.699 --> 00:48:15.840
It's not as good as, you know, some of the other comparable episodes, whether it's, you know, the doctor's wife or blink or the girl in the fireplace.

704
00:48:16.079 --> 00:48:19.739
It's not as quite up to that level, but it is very, very good.

705
00:48:19.800 --> 00:48:27.480
That scene where like she's trying to have the 2nd go at her date and an astronaut walks into the...

706
00:48:27.539 --> 00:48:28.019
Yes, yes.

707
00:48:29.639 --> 00:48:31.440
What's happening here?

708
00:48:31.980 --> 00:48:34.980
There was just one thing that was really missing from this.

709
00:48:35.039 --> 00:48:38.760
I really needed a, this message for self-destruct in 5 seconds.

710
00:48:38.820 --> 00:48:39.900
I mean, I did realise it.

711
00:48:39.960 --> 00:48:40.679
You're right.

712
00:48:40.739 --> 00:48:41.099
You're right.

713
00:48:41.159 --> 00:48:44.280
Well, that's more kind of get smart than Mission Impossible.

714
00:48:44.340 --> 00:48:45.719
It's more mission impossible than nations.

715
00:48:45.780 --> 00:48:46.559
That's true.

716
00:48:46.619 --> 00:48:48.239
There's more mission improbable.

717
00:48:48.300 --> 00:48:50.699
That's good name from Emerson.

718
00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:52.860
All right, I think we done.

719
00:48:52.920 --> 00:48:53.519
What do you think?

720
00:48:53.579 --> 00:48:55.679
I think that we have an hour at some point, I think.