WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:38:59

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Hello, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast made up of unpeople, undoing unthings, un together.

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Sorry, that was unforgivable.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm unattainably yet still here.

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And we are back discussing the Doctor Who Stories of season nine.

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We've got two more to go today.

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So, uh, we're off on a trip into space next.

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We're heading to the planet of Solos home to the mutants.

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Thank you, Mr. Carey.

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Yes, bubble, bubble, toil, and trouble.

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In fact, this is my story and so is the next one.

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So both of you, you can both go home, maybe.

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This is it'll be the Nathan show this week. am home.

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Oh, okay, yeah.

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This is my home.

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He lives in the podcast.

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Although that's oddly topical for this story.

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People saying you people should go home and the people are responding, we are home.

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You came here.

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This is so, so obviously about colonialism and especially apartheid.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, and there's there's all sorts of elements of other things as well.

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Colony in space was set 500 years in the future.

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And people are just sort of mining and starting colonies and that kind of thing.

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And this is 1000 years in the future.

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And so this is the middle of a sort of trilogy of future stories that will culminate in sort of frontier in space next year.

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And this is a sort of earth future history that's sort of a bit standard.

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Like the new adventures picked up on it as if it's like an actual thing.

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Yeah, the doctor describes it as the end of Earth's empire.

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Yeah, he compares it to 2 years.

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The history of the decline and fall of the Roman Empire by Gibbon. like he mentions Gibbon.

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And in the new series, we get reference to the 4th Human Empire by the year 500,000.

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So, you know, obviously it's going to rise and fall a few more times.

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Well, Russell pushes all of the sort of future stuff out into the far future, kind of, so as not to collide with this.

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So what's happened here is, you know, the Earth has colonised this planet has strip-minded for sort of rocket fuel, essentially, ephesium and is about to grant it independence.

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And so it is really topical stuff about the sort of British Empire, and it's fairly negative and anxious about the whole idea of colonialism, I think.

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It's really blatantly so about exploitation and about mineral rights and the fact that, you know, these colonial citizens colonised citizens had no rights over their own land.

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Yeah, so very early on, you see this sort of visualised in the fact that we're on a sky base, which is a big satellite.

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Bass Sky Bass?

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Sky base.

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The valiant.

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And we sort of teleport down to earth, you know, and there's a humans and a overlords and a Silurians thing, you know, like separate drinking fountains for black people in white people in the United States.

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And the doctor, when he sees it, actually uses the word segregation.

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And so that is. and quite disgustedly as well.

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You know, it's not scientific detachment.

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Oh segregation.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, and so it's on the eve of independence and we're going to Grand Independence. not because we've realised we've been doing the wrong things.

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Yeah, not humanitarian these people.

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We've run out of money.

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The earth is exhausted, it's environmentally destroyed.

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There's just no money to support solos.

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There is no thesium left.

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And so we're going to go.

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And in order to announce independence.

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We get the lovely Jeffrey Palmer arrives on Skybase, who Doctor Who's very own Sean Bean, because you know what happens when he turns up?

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Oh, he'll get killed.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, like quite early on.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, no, he really only lasts he lasts less than an episode.

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So he gives this very self-serving speech where he says, you know, that humans and Salonians have been working together and now we've decided that Salonians have been developed enough that they can now rule themselves.

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And so there's all this sort of moral justification.

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But he does give the real kind of tawdry justification to the marshal.

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The marshal is Paul Whitson Jones, who we have seen previously in the smugglers.

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Yeah.

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And so he's sort of terribly fat and overacting and all of that.

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Nathan is actually controlling this podcast because he just gestures at me for names.

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That's my other contribution.

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I'm counsellor Troy.

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Lieutenant Tawney Madison in Galaxy Quest.

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That's it.

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Scorny Weaver, reading off the computer.

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You know, I'm quite happy being Nichelle Nichols or Sigourney Weaver or even Marina Surtis, who's really just a dark-haired Bonnie Langford.

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Yes, you could do worse, could he?

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In fact, what's going to happen is, and it's a sort of strange twist.

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The Marshall doesn't want colonialism to end because he's got a whole planet that he can run.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And so he has and he has Jeffrey Palmer executed and he declares martial law.

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And like, I don't know that much about the sort of politics of the time, but is this a Rhodesia thing?

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Yes, it is.

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It's the most obvious signifier is the divided teleports for overlords and locals.

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It's not overly complex in its, you know, political symbolism, but it doesn't have to be.

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It was such a topical thing.

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Yeah, so Rhodesia, at the time, all the way through the 60s, the British government had discussed giving independence to South Rhodesia.

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But the condition was that it would have to be majority rule so that everyone would have one vote and the white minority government objected to this.

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Yeah, that was considered, that was the caveat. was the only thing that they were going to get.

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Yeah, that's right.

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So they unilaterally declared independence.

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Do you know what I mean?

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So that the decolonisation didn't happen.

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And so it's very much around about that sort of thing.

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So there are all sorts of issues of race and empire and stuff all the way, sort of underneath this.

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Yeah.

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And I do find those issues very effective.

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Because straight away, we are introduced to the concept of we have this young, again, freedom fighter, slash terrorist, slash terrorist, in the form of Kai played by Garrick Hagan, who, during the speech to give independence, gets up and start objecting.

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And on the very surface level, you can say, shut up, you're about to get what you want.

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And it's actually, you know, why should this culture get what they want on the terms of their oppressors?

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It's a very mature scene.

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He does, he does actually, though, prevent the administrator from declaring that solos is independent. before we get shot.

102
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But that's what he is shot.

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You know, that's what, I suppose he's doing the whole pertly antagonising people who could actually help him.

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And in fact, everyone, like people are constantly accusing Kai of speechifying like every, like there's 3 or 4 times throughout the episodes where people tell him off.

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And I think in episode 3 or something the doctor says, look, it's not a political meeting.

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Just shut up and, you know, we're all on your side. with the speeches.

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So he's a sort of slightly ridiculous figure, I think.

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Oh no, he's not.

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I've got a car of you.

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No, Kai is not.

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Kai is the hero in here and he's the sympathetic character.

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And the fact that he argues is because, well, as we turn on the news, and as we later see Professor Jones, you know, the mouthy ones are the good boys and girls, aren't they?

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The ones that can speak her out.

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But enough characters mock him for the speech of fine.

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Because they're all the oldies and squares who aren't getting it.

116
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But the thing is, also, he does learn in that he starts taking action rather than just talking when he is given the agency to take action.

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And of course, he is then the 1st person to spoiler alert at the end evolved into the energy being.

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And what's the 1st thing he does?

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Shoot the marshal.

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Yeah, it's questionable.

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But at the same time, it's like, what other solution is there in the plot or that person?

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He doesn't even object.

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Just go ahead and shoot him.

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No, well, the marshal is about to turn the planet inside out and kill everyone now and then.

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You know, what is fat.

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But, you know, it is it is morally objectionable.

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I don't think we're meant to go, yeah, the marshal's dead.

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It's meant to be a situation of utter desperation.

129
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But like a glowy rainbow being. in a situation of utter desperation.

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He really looks stupid though, doesn't he?

131
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Like, he really, really looks really good.

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No, that's the thing.

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It's still divided as how this looks.

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I don't remember it on black and white, though, so I've only ever seen this in colour and I never bothered to turn the colour down.

135
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I think it looks terrific.

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I really like the trippy weirdness of it.

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And it's one of the few times where the CSO is actually worked for me.

138
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They have this new effect too, which is this sort of rainbow glowy thing that they use a couple of times in this story.

139
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They use it on.

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That's right.

141
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They use it on Kai. and they use it on the box and that sort of thing.

142
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Allows you use it on the croton, won't they, on the cronivol, on the cronivol.

143
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No, I think there's something different.

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I'll talk about that when it comes to Amy Stewart.

145
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There's something vaguely rude about what they use on the croton, the name of it, but we'll get into that soon enough.

146
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Yeah, I mean, Doctor Who has been in colour for 3 years now, but it seems every year they do a story that's not just in colour.

147
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It's in bloody colour.

148
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So, you know, the Ambassadors of Death was in bloody colour and...

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Cause of acts.

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Bloody, and this year, this is this year's...

151
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Look, we're not just in colour.

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We're in every colour simultaneously.

153
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And the big scene is, of course, the scene in the big Theseum mine, the big cavern, so to speak. which is really fabulously trippy, you know, with John Hollis.

154
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I do love John Hollis because John Hollis just plays the same part in everything he ever does.

155
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So he's Professor Sondegard.

156
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Yeah, he's gone native.

157
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He wearing lots of fabulous...

158
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He's actually wearing a really lovely pink, fluffy dressing gown.

159
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Have you noticed?

160
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It's a lovely dusty pink.

161
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But he's got it's all...

162
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And then he's got his, Yeah, his gorgeous necklaces and stuff.

163
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He's accoutrement.

164
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He's low bots in Empire Strikes Man.

165
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Yes, yes.

166
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He wanders around shadowing, stalking Lando Calrician with those sort of headphones on.

167
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And he turns up in Blake 7 wearing very little.

168
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Yes.

169
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No. doesn't he break rebreak Villa's arm or something?

170
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No, he treats Villa's broken arm.

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To be fair.

172
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It doesn't hurt him a lot, though.

173
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Well, it is Villa.

174
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Yeah that's true.

175
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And he seems to be wandering around with Blore from the monster of peladin in that story.

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I think there are a lovely couple.

177
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Blore, really?

178
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Well, I don't know, but it looks like him and he doesn't speak.

179
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Oh, so stupid.

180
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It's been long considered the best of this season.

181
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It's by the Conyo.

182
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How's it?

183
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Yeah, I thought it was.

184
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Is it?

185
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Do I still think it's the best of the season?

186
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I think for what it says and for how it does it, yeah, I do.

187
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The weird thing is that they've given Bob Baker and Dave Martin, they get to do the political story, but they're not really up to it.

188
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And so everyone's, everyone's massively overdrawn and overacted.

189
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There are some speech-y speeches, aren't there?

190
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The marshal's just a stupid villain.

191
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You know?

192
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No, I think actually, this is the thing.

193
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You look at the adults, the colonialists and the people coming back and the political people on television at the time.

194
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The Marshall Ring doesn't stand out as any different. especially crazy compared to kung fu.

195
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It's just very narrow and really and really driven and really believing in his own speed.

196
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Look at the ones we've got now.

197
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I actually think the politics is the really successful part of the story.

198
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I possibly argue the only successful part of this.

199
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Well, I don't know why you don't give that to Mac Hulk to do.

200
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Do you know what they're like?

201
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Mac Hulk was kind of squandered on the sea devils.

202
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He created that.

203
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Sea devils is brilliant.

204
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It is brilliant. my favourite of the season.

205
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I really like it.

206
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It's really strong action adventure.

207
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But the politics that we had in the Sileurians as thin as it was there, is nearly absent from the sea devils.

208
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But the politics, like, colony in space is so good.

209
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Do you know what I mean?

210
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And it plays to hulk strengths.

211
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But here in the mutants, you've got these guys who create great spectacles.

212
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Do you know what I mean?

213
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And really memorable images and things in their writing.

214
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But their characters are really one nose, I think.

215
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Just think about colony in space, and you have ash, and you have Winton, and you have Mary and the Leasons and Caldwell, who are all really interesting nuanced characters.

216
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And here you've got like the Marshall and Stubbs and Cotton and Sondergard, who are all kind of archetypes, you know, and they're not unwatchable.

217
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The performances aren't terrible, you know, except one exception.

218
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And I feel really bad about that.

219
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But the characters are much less nuanced and much less interesting.

220
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And so I came into this story expecting it would be this year's colony in space and expecting really to like it, but I actually found it a bit tiresome.

221
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You see, I see that coming.

222
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I know.

223
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But I think the archetypal nature of the characters actually serves the story well.

224
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I agree too.

225
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We're in a period of time where the empire is stagnating and so it's humanity.

226
00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:38.700
It's gone.

227
00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:41.039
But it means humanity is stagnating as well.

228
00:13:41.100 --> 00:13:45.240
The Marshal is simple-minded because he is afraid to use his mind.

229
00:13:45.299 --> 00:13:51.120
If we look at Sondergard, Sondergard came to the planet with certain convictions, which have been disproven.

230
00:13:51.179 --> 00:13:54.600
And so he has accepted new ideas.

231
00:13:54.659 --> 00:14:03.000
And as such, at one point, he's actually ready, ready to die, you know, not because he wants to die, but because he's like, well, you know, I've lived my life.

232
00:14:03.059 --> 00:14:05.759
The martial is terrified.

233
00:14:05.820 --> 00:14:06.360
Yes.

234
00:14:06.360 --> 00:14:10.860
The Martian is terrified of change because right now he is in command.

235
00:14:10.919 --> 00:14:13.620
Trenchard in the sea devils.

236
00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:16.620
You know, he was removed from his colony and now is running a prison.

237
00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:17.879
And he's a little bit bitter about that.

238
00:14:17.940 --> 00:14:28.379
But what Trenchard does is he wants to go back to how he was, and like you were describing in the novelisation, Nathan, he pictures himself as the great white hero.

239
00:14:28.500 --> 00:14:32.399
He's so much more interesting a character than the Marshall.

240
00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:40.440
Because the marshal hasn't had that power taken away from him, he will do anything to prevent that power being taken away from him.

241
00:14:40.500 --> 00:14:42.059
That does make him single-minded.

242
00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:49.679
Yeah, he's an unsympathetic colonel blimp, and it's worth looking at the military antecedents of the marshal to see that he's actually quite well-rounded.

243
00:14:49.980 --> 00:15:04.080
On the other, again, you know, like you talk about, you talk about Professor Sondegard, you know, offering to die, but he does it in the most tiresome programmatic scene possible where it's no, no, you go on, leave me.

244
00:15:04.139 --> 00:15:04.980
Do you know what I mean?

245
00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:08.700
Like it's, it's, yeah, but could you imagine any other character in the story doing that?

246
00:15:08.820 --> 00:15:13.559
No, I know, but I just don't need to ever see that scene on television again, you know.

247
00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:15.480
And I think I think that that's it.

248
00:15:15.539 --> 00:15:21.659
I think he feels the story with stock characters and fairly stock situations.

249
00:15:21.720 --> 00:15:25.019
And so it's less entertaining than it really should be.

250
00:15:25.139 --> 00:15:25.799
I agree.

251
00:15:25.860 --> 00:15:26.159
I agree.

252
00:15:26.220 --> 00:15:29.519
The only 2 that don't really work in cotton and stops.

253
00:15:29.580 --> 00:15:32.100
See, I like both of those characters.

254
00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:33.659
I like to concept.

255
00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:42.419
Oh, I just think the idea of a Rosencrantz and Guildenstern should work so well, but they're really just been trained on ice cubes.

256
00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:45.059
There's nothing Yeah, I mean, Christopher Cole. to them.

257
00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:47.519
Christopher Cole is he's a reliable actor.

258
00:15:47.580 --> 00:15:54.240
You know, we've seen him already in Seeds of Death, but he's not he's not really good with the comedy in this.

259
00:15:54.299 --> 00:15:57.000
And of course, Rick James is pretty.

260
00:15:57.059 --> 00:16:01.019
He is very pretty and he's got a lovely voice.

261
00:16:01.080 --> 00:16:04.440
He's got a lovely morpheic voice, you know.

262
00:16:04.500 --> 00:16:06.840
It just doesn't have any rhythms that standard English speakers.

263
00:16:06.899 --> 00:16:08.580
Yeah, he's great.

264
00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:13.559
His intonation's the West African, that's all, which is why his speech patterns sound kind of jarring.

265
00:16:13.620 --> 00:16:15.120
I had one else there.

266
00:16:15.179 --> 00:16:16.139
I had wanted that.

267
00:16:16.139 --> 00:16:17.700
I don't think he's a bad...

268
00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:22.440
I had wanted that to be my conclusion, but I think it's really still.

269
00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:23.580
You actually really flat.

270
00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:26.639
Oh, no, I don't know how much of it. is actually a language thing.

271
00:16:26.700 --> 00:16:28.620
I don't know that he's necessarily any worse than anybody else.

272
00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:31.500
I mean, I don't think it's just the accent because that's what I wanted it to be.

273
00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:36.179
I wanted to find Rick James's performance acceptable. it really isn't.

274
00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:43.259
And there's that terrible, terrible moment, the cliffhanger to episode 5 where essentially there's no visual evidence of any danger at all.

275
00:16:43.379 --> 00:16:51.960
All we get is there in a room and Rick James tells them it's very dangerous and we'll all be done for and then crash bang into the credits.

276
00:16:52.019 --> 00:17:01.080
So it's, you know, he can't, in my opinion, he does get, he does get one good scene where he rises well to the material and that's when Stubbs was killed.

277
00:17:01.139 --> 00:17:02.100
Yeah.

278
00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:02.639
Yeah.

279
00:17:02.700 --> 00:17:07.380
You know, I think his reaction to Stubbs' death is really, really good.

280
00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:16.980
Perhaps because, you know, he has been underplaying it the whole time, so he underplays that scene as well, but that scene in isolation, he seems genuinely affected by his mate's death.

281
00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:23.099
I thought he was a bit upset by the death of Stubbs, actually, because he is the sympathetic working class character.

282
00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:28.559
I mean, you know, Joe flirts with it when they're locked up and then the doctor knocks him out and Joe's like, oh, what did you do that for?

283
00:17:28.740 --> 00:17:35.579
A dozen burly, unfooted sailors, hefty sire, remorse.

284
00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:49.019
Look, it's interesting you mentioned Katie just there, Brendan, because really, I don't see that Rick James's character is doing anything but playing up to the scene in exactly the same way that Katie does in pretty much every scene she's given.

285
00:17:49.079 --> 00:18:00.480
It's funny how when you look at Tet Woods commentary and the about time things and he does go on about her batting her eyelids and that Melanie Griffith effed up baby voice that she uses, which I think is a little harsh.

286
00:18:00.539 --> 00:18:07.680
But she certainly does play up to a preconceived role of what a girl companion is supposed to be, which is kind of...

287
00:18:07.740 --> 00:18:10.619
Did we mention acting tropes this season?

288
00:18:10.740 --> 00:18:12.960
We haven't used those at all.

289
00:18:13.019 --> 00:18:13.680
Acting.

290
00:18:13.740 --> 00:18:14.940
We haven't mentioned acting, really.

291
00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:16.440
Tropes.

292
00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:21.539
I will introduce a new trope to you later in this later in this very episode.

293
00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:23.099
So excited already.

294
00:18:23.099 --> 00:18:23.880
Stay tuned.

295
00:18:23.940 --> 00:18:40.019
Yeah, but I mean, it's really just playing the character up to the scene in a way that there's a kind of, you know, very sort of theatrical way of playing it, not so much a television way when you've got to underplay because the camera's so intimate or you've got to diminish your work by a 3rd to 2 thirds.

296
00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:45.299
Heartmolt used to say that to the people he liked on set, his underplay underplay.

297
00:18:45.420 --> 00:18:49.380
Keep it all in your eyes because that's really all the audience is seeing.

298
00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:50.880
Don't bother doing anything else.

299
00:18:50.940 --> 00:18:56.339
But then he also didn't Hartnell ever told him, it's put your fingers up because, you know, that's what everyone else is going to see as well.

300
00:18:56.400 --> 00:18:59.220
Take up the whole screen, much as you can.

301
00:18:59.339 --> 00:19:03.779
But we does his little tricks as well. rub the back of his neck.

302
00:19:03.779 --> 00:19:08.400
Oh, yeah, he's got his he's got his... his twerks, I believe.

303
00:19:08.460 --> 00:19:09.779
Twerks.

304
00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:12.960
You haven't said anything to really say this is a bad story.

305
00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:15.059
Well, I think I have.

306
00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:16.740
Yeah, but that's not unusual.

307
00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:20.160
I mean, just... to Brendan Rinardo.

308
00:19:20.279 --> 00:19:23.880
I don't neither of you have actually really said why this is so funny.

309
00:19:23.940 --> 00:19:25.019
I thought you liked it, Brendan.

310
00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:26.400
I don't you know, I don't mind it.

311
00:19:26.460 --> 00:19:29.099
But I still I still don't think it's very good.

312
00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:32.160
Oh, I think that's wonderful. symbolism and great.

313
00:19:32.220 --> 00:19:34.079
Sorry, you know, Barry Letts actually gave...

314
00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:34.859
It's got great commentary.

315
00:19:34.920 --> 00:19:36.359
It's got a great concept.

316
00:19:36.420 --> 00:19:42.779
It's high concept, which I believe is a term that Nathan has thrown our way before, and I think this is really worthy of that.

317
00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:51.539
You know that let's actually pitched this story, the Salonians and the 500 segment quartered to a 2000 rotation.

318
00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:55.079
It's all part of his Buddhist trip to Jerry Davis in 66.

319
00:19:55.259 --> 00:20:03.839
And Jerry rejected it saying, oh, that's too intellectual for a Doctor Who audience, which kind of tells you a lot about the Jerry Davis era, doesn't it?

320
00:20:03.900 --> 00:20:05.400
Yeah, he's...

321
00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:08.220
And I really like, I really like that Lets has these.

322
00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:13.619
Okay, you may call it weekend Buddhists, and there were a lot of them around in England in the 1970s.

323
00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:20.759
A lot of people who are getting into TM or transcendental meditation and growing among beans and watching the good life.

324
00:20:20.819 --> 00:20:24.900
A lot of people do, that sort of thing in the early 70s in not just in Britain.

325
00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:34.079
I think that's a really, I think that is a really strong aspect of the story, and that is that the cyclical thing.

326
00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:34.859
I love that.

327
00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:37.559
You know, the cave scenes, just to throw my bit in.

328
00:20:37.619 --> 00:20:39.299
Really feel like William Blake.

329
00:20:40.380 --> 00:20:50.579
When he went absolutely cray-cray with his watercolours box because he did have episodes where he went quite mad and ran around naked and, you know, upset his wife.

330
00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:51.839
It is Mardi Gras weekend.

331
00:20:51.900 --> 00:20:52.859
Yeah, I know.

332
00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:54.960
But it's perfect, perfect one for Mardi Gras.

333
00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:57.420
I think it's a really beautiful story with some lovely symbolisms.

334
00:20:57.480 --> 00:21:00.180
And I actually really love Garo Kagan as Kai.

335
00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:00.900
I think he makes it.

336
00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:06.059
And if you're talking about intimacy and sympathy. between Joe Grant and the male lead.

337
00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:09.420
I think you've got a much more convincing one here than you do at any other time in this series.

338
00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:23.880
Do you know, when I was writing up my notes for the Paladon one, because I wanted to try and work out which story, she has an interplanetary romance, because, you know, I've heard the joke before that Joe cops off, you know, every time she goes to another planet.

339
00:21:23.940 --> 00:21:26.700
She's the William Shatner of Doctor Who.

340
00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:29.579
But I couldn't see anything between her and Kai.

341
00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:34.440
No, I mean, there seems to be there's a very strong platonic thing with them.

342
00:21:34.500 --> 00:21:36.240
I don't think it's anything romantic.

343
00:21:36.299 --> 00:21:38.039
Yeah, I don't know.

344
00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:40.859
I couldn't say, you know, she doesn't take a big push, though.

345
00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:48.599
No, but there is very much a there's a mutual respect between them and a mutual understanding between them.

346
00:21:48.660 --> 00:21:54.359
I think that's actually Dashes into that into that porter cube with alacrity, doesn't she?

347
00:21:54.420 --> 00:21:55.980
Well, doesn't she get dragged in?

348
00:21:56.039 --> 00:21:58.079
Oh, that's what she does.

349
00:21:58.079 --> 00:21:59.400
Oh, she dressed quite casually.

350
00:21:59.460 --> 00:22:00.960
She follows him.

351
00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:03.000
She wearing a lovely outfit in this story, by the way.

352
00:22:03.059 --> 00:22:03.779
Can I just say?

353
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:04.680
It's really awesome.

354
00:22:04.740 --> 00:22:06.599
So is this the yellow boots one or is that where?

355
00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:07.500
No, no, that's coming up.

356
00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:08.700
That's, yeah, that's next.

357
00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:09.839
Yellow boots, yellow knickers.

358
00:22:09.900 --> 00:22:12.779
No, this is a sort of weird sort of brown suit thing.

359
00:22:12.839 --> 00:22:14.640
It's very tiny because she's lovely.

360
00:22:14.700 --> 00:22:17.940
No, she's following him because he...

361
00:22:17.940 --> 00:22:23.460
She's following him because the box opens as he goes past.

362
00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:27.359
So, yeah, we haven't really left... talked about the box.

363
00:22:27.420 --> 00:22:30.720
So let's, the doctor has been given a box by the time, Lords.

364
00:22:30.779 --> 00:22:32.819
It looks like a kind of crummy football.

365
00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:37.740
Looks like something children of the only 1970s used to put coloured shapes into.

366
00:22:37.740 --> 00:22:38.400
Really?

367
00:22:39.359 --> 00:22:40.140
I remember that.

368
00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:42.119
It's like a stealth version.

369
00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:45.660
A Borg stealth version of that blue...

370
00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:46.619
Blue and red.

371
00:22:46.619 --> 00:22:48.660
That was very cool. red and blue with yellow shapes.

372
00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:49.619
Yes, exactly.

373
00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:54.839
Yeah, so it's the most irritating toil, though it made a very good Death Star spaceship thing later. on.

374
00:22:54.900 --> 00:22:57.000
Gosh. want one of those.

375
00:22:57.359 --> 00:22:59.460
They still make them, did they?

376
00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:00.240
I think they do actually.

377
00:23:00.299 --> 00:23:02.759
Shots on eBay for the price of a new car.

378
00:23:02.819 --> 00:23:03.599
Yeah probably.

379
00:23:03.660 --> 00:23:08.279
So this is, the time loads are really not very competent here.

380
00:23:08.339 --> 00:23:22.680
Sand for comments on this, but pretty much anyone who's ever watched the story knows that the box appears, you know, in the doctor's laboratory, Joe and the doctor head off to another planet to deliver the box to someone, the doctor doesn't know who the box is for.

381
00:23:22.740 --> 00:23:27.839
The box opens when Kai goes past, which is why Joe goes chasing...

382
00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:29.220
Yeah, that's her excuse.

383
00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:35.880
The box opens and it's got tablets in it that Kai can't read and he doesn't understand.

384
00:23:36.539 --> 00:23:42.900
Then John Hollis nearby is wrote in to do the translation about it.

385
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:49.079
So it's not really the most direct or kind of efficient way of getting a message to someone, really.

386
00:23:49.140 --> 00:23:55.740
You would think my grit guy from Tara of the Autons could have just popped, you know, into existence in front of me.

387
00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:59.880
Why didn't they just, why didn't they just bloody materialise the thing in his lap to start?

388
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:00.119
with?

389
00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:01.140
Why does it have to?

390
00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:04.619
Why is it also, and why didn't Gandalf just send the bloody Eagles?

391
00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:08.160
Yes, why didn't the Eagles drop the ring into Mount Doom?

392
00:24:08.220 --> 00:24:09.480
That's crazy.

393
00:24:09.539 --> 00:24:14.220
I mean, no, or carry the, carry the, you know, took Frodo into Mountain Dew.

394
00:24:14.279 --> 00:24:15.180
Let me try that again.

395
00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:16.259
No, I haven't left Talk to Who?

396
00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:18.240
They could have dropped frog. can't even say it.

397
00:24:18.299 --> 00:24:22.380
Really, the ball should have been Ian McCellen in this story.

398
00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:30.960
He was around and he would have made it quite a nice little bit of tasty cottage pie out of Kai, I think, in his story in this one.

399
00:24:31.019 --> 00:24:32.460
Well, come 2012.

400
00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:37.200
The ball was Ian McCellen in Doctor Who and the Snowman.

401
00:24:37.259 --> 00:24:37.740
Yeah.

402
00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:42.539
At Christmas with the giant snow globe, voiced by Siri and Mackellum.

403
00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:43.200
Do we own him?

404
00:24:43.259 --> 00:24:45.480
Is the listener still with us, do you think?

405
00:24:45.539 --> 00:24:46.980
They've actually gone off too.

406
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:48.119
Wake up, dear.

407
00:24:48.180 --> 00:24:50.460
He'll disentangle all of this in post.

408
00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:51.059
Don't worry.

409
00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:55.680
Richard, coming back to something you were saying earlier, like, why is this still a bad story?

410
00:24:55.740 --> 00:24:56.460
I've been thinking about.

411
00:24:56.519 --> 00:24:57.779
Well, it isn't.

412
00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:04.619
Well, that's a good story, which has been executed very poorly, in my opinion.

413
00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:07.259
You have, how is that, okay?

414
00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:07.920
You know what?

415
00:25:07.980 --> 00:25:09.299
You have a very strong guest, Carl.

416
00:25:09.359 --> 00:25:10.380
Paul Wits and Jones.

417
00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:11.700
You have George Prafter.

418
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:13.140
You have Jeffrey Palmer.

419
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:14.519
You have John...

420
00:25:14.579 --> 00:25:15.420
Yeah, George Bro.

421
00:25:15.420 --> 00:25:16.380
Lots of John Hollis.

422
00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:18.480
The bloke from the beginning of Monty Python.

423
00:25:18.539 --> 00:25:18.960
Yes.

424
00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:20.099
You had the It sky.

425
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:21.359
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

426
00:25:21.420 --> 00:25:23.759
For me, I think the big problem is.

427
00:25:23.819 --> 00:25:26.400
And I know we've kind of glossed over this, but I've been thinking about it.

428
00:25:26.460 --> 00:25:29.220
And the big problem is stops and cotton.

429
00:25:29.339 --> 00:25:31.319
Rosencrantz and Gildens.

430
00:25:31.380 --> 00:25:37.380
Rosencrantz and Gildenstead, because they're our main audience identification figures with the world of skybase.

431
00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:37.799
Yeah.

432
00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:42.779
And then just not very interesting.

433
00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:45.059
They're not terribly sympathetic.

434
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:49.140
Like, you know, we just, we don't really care about them until one of them dies.

435
00:25:49.259 --> 00:25:54.480
And even then we kind of care because there's sort of there is an emotional reaction among the cars.

436
00:25:54.539 --> 00:25:55.799
Why do you think we don't care?

437
00:25:55.859 --> 00:25:59.460
I actually think it is the thing that I identified before?

438
00:25:59.579 --> 00:26:01.019
Is the characters are just types?

439
00:26:01.079 --> 00:26:02.940
of them are particularly interesting?

440
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:05.099
You know, so particularly sympathetic.

441
00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:06.660
So they, that's the thing.

442
00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:12.480
They need interesting performers. the martial, the martial works because he's giving a really interesting performance.

443
00:26:12.539 --> 00:26:13.559
I've just got one.

444
00:26:13.559 --> 00:26:14.819
But it is a real...

445
00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:16.079
Sorry, James Atcheson.

446
00:26:16.140 --> 00:26:19.380
It's his 1st go on this. we got there yet?

447
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:23.220
They're the best looking monsters to have appeared in Doctor Who almost so far.

448
00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:27.059
And I'm sorry I jumped in there quickly, but hey, it's a podcast.

449
00:26:27.180 --> 00:26:28.680
Look, it looks gorgeous.

450
00:26:28.680 --> 00:26:30.299
And it's great moments.

451
00:26:30.420 --> 00:26:31.019
You know what?

452
00:26:31.019 --> 00:26:31.799
Yeah, the design's good.

453
00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:39.720
I also liked that it nods to Solaris, which had just come out that year, you know, with the toss version.

454
00:26:39.779 --> 00:26:40.140
Yeah.

455
00:26:40.200 --> 00:26:42.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah. and the sky-based thing.

456
00:26:42.180 --> 00:26:52.259
I mean, it's about as much like Solaris says, you know, the goodies is like the Brandenburg concerto whenever Graham gets on the computer organ, but I'm still, okay.

457
00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:53.460
I mean, we can go on for it forever.

458
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:55.799
I think maybe the listener needs to decide.

459
00:26:55.859 --> 00:26:59.640
I actually think it's my highlight of the season as what it's saying.

460
00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:01.980
But you mean us as a story.

461
00:27:02.099 --> 00:27:05.940
But what it's saying is not exactly a spectacular moral insight.

462
00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:06.839
Do you know what I mean?

463
00:27:06.900 --> 00:27:09.240
Like oppressing people and stealing all their stuff is wrong.

464
00:27:09.299 --> 00:27:09.960
It's bad.

465
00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:11.279
You know, like, it's not bad.

466
00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:12.119
And how we deal with it.

467
00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:17.160
And I look, anything that shows up the moral impunity of these characters is not a bad thing.

468
00:27:17.220 --> 00:27:18.599
Yeah, yeah.

469
00:27:18.660 --> 00:27:27.839
But I'm just, I think the moral thing is sort of really basic and I think the fact that the martial is sort of a moustache twirling villain, it makes it less interesting than it should be.

470
00:27:27.900 --> 00:27:31.799
I think Hertway's also most likeable in this story is to any of them this year.

471
00:27:31.859 --> 00:27:33.720
Well, again, it's really sympathetic.

472
00:27:33.779 --> 00:27:41.039
Again, it's per twee's new instinctive attraction to progressive causes. which we're starting to see all the time.

473
00:27:41.099 --> 00:27:43.019
I really like the doctor in this story.

474
00:27:43.079 --> 00:27:44.819
He's more like the doctor.

475
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:51.420
I've got to say, I didn't get a chance to say it last season, but it's actually taken now for me 2 years to accept him as the doctor.

476
00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:54.000
Yeah, I think I threw it somewhere out.

477
00:27:54.059 --> 00:27:57.480
He's the least doctor-ish doctor I've seen and I'm thinking later doctors as well.

478
00:27:57.539 --> 00:28:02.880
I actually have about as much trouble with him as I do with the other baker. as the doctor.

479
00:28:02.940 --> 00:28:05.099
Surprise maker, the other other baker.

480
00:28:05.160 --> 00:28:06.240
Yeah, I'm surprised at that.

481
00:28:06.299 --> 00:28:15.660
I certainly have great fondness for Colin now through his audio work, but I just, I think it's having heard Barry Letz's 2 audio versions for Mr. Pertley in the 90s.

482
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:16.559
It's not quite the same thing.

483
00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:20.220
Can I say a word about George Prafter for a moment?

484
00:28:20.279 --> 00:28:20.940
Please do.

485
00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:22.259
Nice space.

486
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:23.099
Nice lab.

487
00:28:23.160 --> 00:28:25.259
Yeah, yeah, he's got a really nice lab.

488
00:28:25.319 --> 00:28:28.559
He's probably for me the most interesting character in the whole thing.

489
00:28:28.619 --> 00:28:30.599
It's very sympathetic in everything he does, isn't he?

490
00:28:30.660 --> 00:28:31.559
He pictures it, really.

491
00:28:31.619 --> 00:28:40.799
It's interesting because he is built up as being a sympathetic character and the doctor starts to change his thinking, oh, maybe we shouldn't turn the planet inside out and kill everyone.

492
00:28:40.859 --> 00:28:41.579
Yeah.

493
00:28:41.640 --> 00:28:43.920
And then he just goes ahead and tries to do it anyway.

494
00:28:43.980 --> 00:28:44.579
Anyway.

495
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:52.500
You know, in a way, he's more evil than the marshal because he's been introduced as a character who does have a conscience and does think about the effect on other people.

496
00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:56.400
But he's going to bloody do this thing anyway because he just doesn't care.

497
00:28:56.460 --> 00:29:01.740
And that, I think, is very effective in the doctor's disappointment in him.

498
00:29:01.740 --> 00:29:03.599
It's very...

499
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:05.700
The martial...

500
00:29:05.759 --> 00:29:07.740
Is that true though?

501
00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:11.460
The marshal kind of railroads him into doing it.

502
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:13.619
Yeah, but he doesn't really object does he?

503
00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:20.039
But and then in episode, like in front of the Inquisitor or whoever it is who arrives at the very end.

504
00:29:20.099 --> 00:29:21.420
Who looks like a timelord?

505
00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:35.880
Yeah, he arrives at the end and he's never in it again, but I kept thinking, surely he played a time lord at some point, but he doesn't, I think, George Pravter's character, who's called Jager, I think, testifies against him or is kind of horrified by the martials.

506
00:29:35.940 --> 00:29:37.259
Yeah, he plays Frederick Yeager.

507
00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:39.720
See, he does break Roger, I was thinking.

508
00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:40.920
With that unfortunate accent.

509
00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:44.819
And unfortunately, that unfortunate line, I was just following authors.

510
00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:46.500
Well, it is that...

511
00:29:46.559 --> 00:29:48.000
You know, again, I think...

512
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:59.759
I just don't think any of the characters rise to the level of complexity where, you know, you could say anything so definitive about what Jaeger's like as a person.

513
00:29:59.819 --> 00:30:03.960
I think he's just kind of pushed around by whatever the plot needs.

514
00:30:04.019 --> 00:30:05.579
I think he's the most realistic, therefore.

515
00:30:05.640 --> 00:30:06.240
Yeah.

516
00:30:06.299 --> 00:30:10.859
For me, this could have actually been the best story of the season if more care had been taken with it.

517
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:13.259
I think it's a great shame.

518
00:30:13.319 --> 00:30:16.680
I think it's a great improvement for the Bristol boys over clause of access.

519
00:30:16.740 --> 00:30:19.079
No, because I think it's their fault that it's crappy.

520
00:30:19.140 --> 00:30:19.920
Oh, okay.

521
00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:21.480
I think it's the direction.

522
00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:22.259
Right.

523
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:22.859
Yeah, no, no.

524
00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:28.259
I think it's because they've written a whole heap of like of stock programmatic characters who aren't very interesting.

525
00:30:28.859 --> 00:30:31.920
I think it's up to the listener to decide.

526
00:30:31.980 --> 00:30:33.180
Yes, absolutely.

527
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:35.160
With an exciting me to decide.

528
00:30:35.279 --> 00:30:48.779
We haven't talked about, we haven't talked about Tristram Carey's last score for the program, and I've got to say, it's really kind of sad that he's gone from such beautiful levels with the Daleks and master plan he did as well, didn't he?

529
00:30:48.900 --> 00:30:51.480
and how now sophisticated and elegant they were.

530
00:30:51.539 --> 00:30:52.200
And then there's this one.

531
00:30:52.259 --> 00:30:55.079
I'm just going, well, I'm sitting here thinking, what, who's opened the fridge?

532
00:30:55.140 --> 00:30:57.720
Yeah, really glaring?

533
00:30:57.779 --> 00:30:58.319
Like scorching?

534
00:30:58.440 --> 00:31:00.480
What we're doing in 1972, isn't it?

535
00:31:00.539 --> 00:31:13.259
I know he had very little time and he was a last minute edition. whoever else they had on wasn't available and Carrie, I think by that time was, you know, moving to Australia and doing other things and lost a lot of money with his lab.

536
00:31:13.319 --> 00:31:21.660
He stayed of the art cutting edge, of course, simply because of machines like the Delaware. were cutting him out so quickly. tech was moving so fast.

537
00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:28.500
And poor old Carrie was just kind of doing everything, quick little jobs where he could from what I know.

538
00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:31.920
But yeah, I really, this is really irritating story.

539
00:31:31.980 --> 00:31:33.660
In a year of interesting scores.

540
00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:35.099
It is disappointing.

541
00:31:35.160 --> 00:31:37.140
But, um, that's a harsh word.

542
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:42.960
Well, it's disappointing because as you say, you know, he's been so good in the past and would continue to be good.

543
00:31:43.019 --> 00:31:45.420
That's the Trump card in ending any relationship, isn't it?

544
00:31:45.539 --> 00:31:46.859
you were so good in the past.

545
00:31:46.920 --> 00:31:47.880
Disappointing.

546
00:31:49.259 --> 00:31:55.440
But as you mentioned earlier, Richard, 1st story of James Atchison.

547
00:31:55.500 --> 00:31:56.279
Yeah.

548
00:31:56.279 --> 00:32:00.720
Yeah, and, you know, I really like the mutt costumes.

549
00:32:00.779 --> 00:32:05.759
I think there are, there are really like, they're pretty much a really effective update of the zombie.

550
00:32:05.819 --> 00:32:07.859
I was actually thinking that as well.

551
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:11.039
They're like sort of scary ants made of leather instead of fibreglass.

552
00:32:11.099 --> 00:32:16.500
Which means they move a bit more naturally as naturally as one can in a giant ankle.

553
00:32:16.619 --> 00:32:17.819
Beautiful, too, which helps.

554
00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:19.380
Yes, I just love them.

555
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:25.740
But they're also, like, they're scary looking, but they're sympathetic and they have a lot of sort of sad eyes.

556
00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:29.220
I mean, they look like sort of sea devil eyes, you know, it's the same kind of eyes.

557
00:32:29.339 --> 00:32:31.079
You see them again cropping up on San.

558
00:32:31.140 --> 00:32:32.519
Yes, yes, yes.

559
00:32:32.579 --> 00:32:35.160
I also really like the in brain of Morbius.

560
00:32:35.160 --> 00:32:35.940
Yeah, yeah.

561
00:32:36.059 --> 00:32:36.420
Yeah, yeah.

562
00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:38.880
I also really like the sky base uniforms.

563
00:32:38.940 --> 00:32:40.740
The kinky devil.

564
00:32:40.799 --> 00:32:43.680
They actually do look a bit like Berner Cribbons in vinyl, don't they?

565
00:32:43.740 --> 00:32:44.460
Yes, they do.

566
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:55.019
So just before we head right into the end of the season, Rod didn't have much to say about this story, but I think my favourite comment that he did make.

567
00:32:55.079 --> 00:33:03.359
I think it's the Cliffhanger to episode four, he described as the best depressurising airlock scene ever.

568
00:33:03.599 --> 00:33:05.940
Gosh, it's terrible, isn't it?

569
00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:07.559
Is he a Blake 7 fan?

570
00:33:07.740 --> 00:33:18.299
The next episode, there's a gaping CSO hole in the wall and the marshal just walks out of the room while everyone else is sort of trying not to be sat down. ridiculous.

571
00:33:18.359 --> 00:33:18.960
Awful.

572
00:33:19.019 --> 00:33:19.500
Yeah.

573
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:27.420
Right, well, we've just taken a little gap between now and now.

574
00:33:27.539 --> 00:33:30.180
Is that why you're naked except for a swaddling cloth?

575
00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:33.240
Yes, well, I've just been played by the baby from next door.

576
00:33:33.299 --> 00:33:40.079
This is, of course, the time doesn't stuff. that different from the baby from the story. you still impressively youthful.

577
00:33:40.380 --> 00:33:43.500
Oh, you're just saying that because they don't have any hair.

578
00:33:43.559 --> 00:33:45.720
Nathan, I think this was one of yours again.

579
00:33:45.779 --> 00:33:47.400
Well, this is just terrible, isn't it?

580
00:33:47.700 --> 00:33:50.640
I'm going to start by saying, God, I love this story.

581
00:33:50.700 --> 00:33:51.599
Thank you.

582
00:33:51.660 --> 00:33:52.559
But it is terrible.

583
00:33:52.619 --> 00:33:58.559
No, it's Robert Sloman and the thing that nobody gets with this story, dear listener, is that it's written as a comedy.

584
00:33:58.619 --> 00:34:01.200
Oh, that's amazing.

585
00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:01.859
It's funny though.

586
00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:04.500
Of course it's 1972 and it's a feminist comedy.

587
00:34:04.619 --> 00:34:11.760
And it's one of the few ones that actually has a lovely little sparring thing between an overtly queer character and a dominant feminine character.

588
00:34:11.820 --> 00:34:13.500
And apparently that's not a good thing to be.

589
00:34:13.559 --> 00:34:16.800
No, I think it's great because people don't like the politics of it.

590
00:34:16.860 --> 00:34:18.719
It's absolutely not that.

591
00:34:18.780 --> 00:34:20.639
It's just really not very good.

592
00:34:21.059 --> 00:34:34.079
It's this weird tension of we have a plot which is essentially bobbins and just quite terrible, but everyone's having a really great time, except reportedly for pert week.

593
00:34:34.139 --> 00:34:36.119
And us and the people watching.

594
00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:38.460
No, no, no, I have an amazing time watching this.

595
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:45.420
But oddly, the thing pert we really didn't like was conceptual science fiction.

596
00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:48.000
He liked stories to be crowned in reality.

597
00:34:48.059 --> 00:34:50.460
It's like, well, you're on the wrong show.

598
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:51.119
What he talking about?

599
00:34:51.179 --> 00:34:52.920
It's got Ingrid Pitt.

600
00:34:53.340 --> 00:34:58.320
You know, a flouncy, trouncy, bouncy, busty outfit.

601
00:34:58.380 --> 00:34:59.460
That's pretty real.

602
00:34:59.699 --> 00:35:15.300
So, but in a way, this actually works in Purpy's favour because he did complain to Terrence about the script and how he didn't think the script made any sense, but he also then said, you know, I will do it because my job is not to enjoy the scripts.

603
00:35:16.019 --> 00:35:19.079
And I will pass that on to the audience.

604
00:35:19.139 --> 00:35:24.539
He said, my job is to say the words with the best conviction I can manage.

605
00:35:24.599 --> 00:35:27.420
So even if I am not enjoying myself.

606
00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:28.860
You might want to add.

607
00:35:28.860 --> 00:35:34.920
Even if I am not enjoying myself, even if I don't believe what I'm saying, the children at home must believe it.

608
00:35:34.980 --> 00:35:37.199
Yeah, but can you hear Patrick Troughton's response to that?

609
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:40.920
Because you could just, or indeed, Lawrence and the VAs would just try acting more.

610
00:35:40.980 --> 00:35:45.900
You know, how about elevating that to the next level where you actually experience and have some feeling for it?

611
00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:47.820
Don't just read the bloody lines with conviction.

612
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:48.599
Be somebody.

613
00:35:48.659 --> 00:35:51.480
We're not up to 3 doctors yet, but I bet we'll have a lot to say.

614
00:35:51.539 --> 00:36:06.000
I think that it really is evident in that scene in episode 2 where he's explaining who Kronos is to Dr. Ruth Ingram and Sergeant Benton and that bird in a white rock and a farm attack. painted white.

615
00:36:06.059 --> 00:36:19.260
The thing is, he has to do all this sort of babble and he has this beautiful line which I'll come back to, which is along the lines of the Atlanteans believed in Kronos and thus brought him into existence and imprisoned him in the stool.

616
00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:22.980
It's very Buddhist, but apparently John just went, oh God, this is terrible.

617
00:36:23.039 --> 00:36:26.400
But in that scene, the doctor isn't speculating.

618
00:36:26.460 --> 00:36:28.860
The doctor is saying this really happened.

619
00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:32.280
The doctor is essentially saying magic happened, but he convinces me in that scene.

620
00:36:32.340 --> 00:36:33.840
But it's a Buddhist thing, isn't it?

621
00:36:33.900 --> 00:36:34.500
Interstitial time.

622
00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:37.019
It's actually a concept of Tibetan Buddhism.

623
00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:40.139
There is much more Buddhism in this than you think, and it is...

624
00:36:40.139 --> 00:36:43.139
I'll just pat my yeti while I'm just saying that, so to speak.

625
00:36:43.139 --> 00:36:44.519
You're disused, yes, yes.

626
00:36:44.579 --> 00:36:45.719
God, I need to shave my legs.

627
00:36:46.139 --> 00:36:49.679
Brendan's hugging the disused game as we speak.

628
00:36:49.739 --> 00:36:51.300
There'll be a photo to a company.

629
00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:53.579
There's a euphemism.

630
00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:59.940
So every year after Dick's and Let's take over, every year we get a 6 part season.

631
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:01.800
It does sound like a euphemism, doesn't it?

632
00:37:01.860 --> 00:37:03.119
It really isn't.

633
00:37:03.360 --> 00:37:06.119
There's a six-part season finale.

634
00:37:06.179 --> 00:37:12.420
It's by Letts and Sloman, essentially, although sometimes Letts is credited and sometimes he isn't.

635
00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:13.380
In fact, he's never credited.

636
00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:16.199
But it's a huge input from him.

637
00:37:16.260 --> 00:37:18.659
And there's always sort of spirituality in Buddhism.

638
00:37:18.780 --> 00:37:29.820
So last year in the demons we discovered for the 1st time that Doctor Who can say that an alien is responsible for some aspect of magic or human mythology or something like that.

639
00:37:29.880 --> 00:37:31.320
And we get that again this year.

640
00:37:31.380 --> 00:37:34.500
It's Kronos, who is a Titan in Greek mythology.

641
00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:36.480
There's a minotaur.

642
00:37:36.539 --> 00:37:40.619
There's all of these things which are caused by, you know, sort of strange alien names.

643
00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:43.139
Richard Dorkard's atheistic alien, do you think?

644
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:45.960
Do you think he's actually an Asyl?

645
00:37:46.019 --> 00:37:47.280
Is it?

646
00:37:47.280 --> 00:37:48.300
Richard Dorkos.

647
00:37:48.360 --> 00:37:48.960
I think he could be.

648
00:37:49.019 --> 00:37:50.579
I think I'll have to ask Lala Ward.

649
00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:51.840
She would know.

650
00:37:51.900 --> 00:37:52.500
Yeah, yeah.

651
00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:53.760
We should ring her up and leave.

652
00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:55.500
I think we might get a rather curt reply.

653
00:37:55.559 --> 00:37:57.960
She said at a convention she's married monsters in the past.

654
00:37:58.860 --> 00:38:04.860
So it's very similar and we'll get this sort of Buddhist sort of staff as well.

655
00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:06.900
If only there was a Buddhist we could know.

656
00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:09.960
We knew in Fandom, we could check with you, Luth and see if this is...

657
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:11.400
Well, I know a little bit about Buddhism.

658
00:38:11.400 --> 00:38:13.019
And and the...

659
00:38:13.019 --> 00:38:18.599
There is a hugely massively Buddhist moment, of course, which is the flower sermon in episode.

660
00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:31.500
Yeah, where Hertui tells the story of his blackest day and he goes and meets the hermit halfway up a mountain who we later discover Whoopi Campo, Rimposhe, and Queen Darius.

661
00:38:31.559 --> 00:38:33.659
King Dalius in this episode.

662
00:38:33.780 --> 00:38:34.739
It's the same actor.

663
00:38:35.579 --> 00:38:38.159
And, you know, it's the flower.

664
00:38:38.219 --> 00:38:39.300
Queen down, I think.

665
00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:46.260
We'll have to talk about that later because I've got lots of juicy things to say about Galileo, who I think is just fantastic.

666
00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:47.579
This is the highlight of this story.

667
00:38:48.420 --> 00:38:51.900
So there is sort of overtly Buddhist stuff.

668
00:38:51.960 --> 00:38:57.420
But the other thing that lets and Slyman do in the season finale every year is give us a fun unit romp.

669
00:38:57.480 --> 00:38:58.199
Do you know what I mean?

670
00:38:58.260 --> 00:39:01.920
And so that's why everyone remembers these things as being such fun.

671
00:39:01.980 --> 00:39:03.539
You know, the demons was fun.

672
00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:06.300
This is kind of fun.

673
00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:07.800
It is terrible, but it's kind of fun.

674
00:39:07.860 --> 00:39:14.880
The Green Death is the one that they get right, where it's actually a good story as well as being a fun unit romp.

675
00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:20.519
And then there's Planet of the Spiders where all the unit people are back and it's really not very good.

676
00:39:20.579 --> 00:39:24.420
So it is a pattern that they sort of set every year.

677
00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:33.659
And I think the 2 reasons why this story is so terrible are the dialogue is shockingly bad all the way through.

678
00:39:33.719 --> 00:39:37.079
Like absolutely absurdly ridiculous.

679
00:39:37.139 --> 00:39:44.579
And it's all that Cretan jazz and the whole King Arthur bit and like simmer down, Stu.

680
00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:48.719
Everyone sort of speaks in this sort of absolutely fake appalling way.

681
00:39:48.780 --> 00:39:57.840
You know, the brigadier is suddenly a giant fool who can't really understand anything that's going on and doesn't believe all the other things that are going on.

682
00:39:57.900 --> 00:40:03.300
Dialogue is just painful to listen to, like really, really atrociously bad.

683
00:40:03.360 --> 00:40:05.760
Joe says groovy twice.

684
00:40:05.820 --> 00:40:06.960
Far too often.

685
00:40:07.019 --> 00:40:07.920
Twice.

686
00:40:07.980 --> 00:40:12.420
It feels like it, well, apparently the whole industrial universe is groovy.

687
00:40:12.840 --> 00:40:19.260
You see, I feel like the dialogue is actually really nicely quirky.

688
00:40:19.320 --> 00:40:21.179
We have the 2 scientific characters.

689
00:40:21.239 --> 00:40:25.019
We have Ruth and Stu, who, as well as being scientists. doubles.

690
00:40:25.079 --> 00:40:25.619
They are.

691
00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:26.940
Yeah, they are a comedy double.

692
00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:28.679
It's not a funny comedy.

693
00:40:28.679 --> 00:40:30.780
As well as being scientists.

694
00:40:30.840 --> 00:40:35.699
They have a pre-existing relationship as brother and sister.

695
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:38.760
You know, they banter with each other and they tease each other.

696
00:40:38.820 --> 00:40:44.159
And it's that it's that kind of familiar relationship that we don't see often.

697
00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:45.300
She's butcher his film.

698
00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:48.300
It's a perfect television...

699
00:40:48.360 --> 00:40:54.780
I do have something to say about her whole, the treatment of her as a feminist. is very interesting.

700
00:40:54.840 --> 00:41:06.539
It's, um, you know, it's the 1st time that Doctor Who is actively doing feminism and doing women's lib and they actually call it by name, God bless women's lib at all, but not all the same.

701
00:41:06.599 --> 00:41:08.159
You know, it's incredibly awkward.

702
00:41:08.219 --> 00:41:09.719
It's incredibly awkwardly done.

703
00:41:09.780 --> 00:41:10.739
Roughly handled.

704
00:41:10.800 --> 00:41:15.539
I think the cast do the best they can with the material they've got.

705
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:21.960
I think Delgado probably handles it best because he is sexist towards her.

706
00:41:22.019 --> 00:41:24.539
But when he apologises.

707
00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:27.420
Delgado's master hasn't shown signs of sexism before.

708
00:41:27.480 --> 00:41:31.619
He's courteous to a fault with everyone until he needs to kill you.

709
00:41:31.679 --> 00:41:38.639
And again, he shows actually no intent that he ever seems ready to hurt Ruth.

710
00:41:38.699 --> 00:41:41.820
And I don't think he ever intends to hurt Stuart either.

711
00:41:41.880 --> 00:41:43.440
He just gets in the way, you know what I mean?

712
00:41:43.500 --> 00:41:55.440
But I think one of the really questionable moments of Ruth's status as a feminist, if you like, is when Stu is kind of gently asking, oh, come on, you know, we should we should give it a try.

713
00:41:55.500 --> 00:41:57.659
We're just as qualified, this, that, the other, this, that, the other.

714
00:41:57.719 --> 00:42:01.440
And her response is, don't bully me, Stu, or I'll burst into tears.

715
00:42:01.500 --> 00:42:05.639
But I actually think that that's actually, that was a line that I thought was meant to be funny.

716
00:42:05.699 --> 00:42:15.059
It's a really lovely character moment, but it's also saying, oh, yes, we're doing all this feminism stuff, but really women will just manipulate you by crying.

717
00:42:15.119 --> 00:42:17.099
Coming back to my other package.

718
00:42:17.159 --> 00:42:18.659
Thank you for that, Judas.

719
00:42:18.719 --> 00:42:19.619
Is that your other person?

720
00:42:19.679 --> 00:42:22.739
Coming back to my other passion, of course, which is video games.

721
00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:27.000
I imagine most of the listeners will have heard of Super Mario Brothers.

722
00:42:27.059 --> 00:42:28.019
It's kind of a thing.

723
00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:40.500
And one of the central conceits of that is most games start with Princess Toadstool, Princess Peach Toadstool, being kidnapped by Bowser, the king of the turtles, and Mario having to go and save her.

724
00:42:40.500 --> 00:42:45.780
And, you know, so it's obviously the, you know, the woman is kidnapped and the man has to say that.

725
00:42:45.900 --> 00:42:53.880
About 10 years ago, they made a game called Super Princess Peach, where Mario was kidnapped and Peach had to go rescue him.

726
00:42:53.940 --> 00:42:57.840
They've watched an episode of The Avengers. in 1960 blah, yeah.

727
00:42:57.900 --> 00:43:00.179
But Peaches' superpowers.

728
00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:04.739
Mario Superpowers are throwing fireballs or freezing things or turning into a raccoon.

729
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:08.219
Peach's superpowers involve emotions.

730
00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:13.679
She gets angry at people and hits them or she cries a river and the enemies get swept away.

731
00:43:13.800 --> 00:43:15.719
So it is the Delgado on purple.

732
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:23.699
Yeah, so, yeah, it's kind of that thing of women will manipulate you with their emotions still exist today.

733
00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:28.199
That being said, it was a decent game and peach got to be a hero and beat lots of people up.

734
00:43:28.260 --> 00:43:39.179
Ruth is a decent character and she is strong and she is intelligent, but there's still this tension in there of, ah, the terrible woman.

735
00:43:39.239 --> 00:43:40.619
Not in 72 and he's out.

736
00:43:40.679 --> 00:43:42.840
Well, they do that to Sarah Jane when she turns up.

737
00:43:42.900 --> 00:43:44.400
She's not having a bar of it, though.

738
00:43:44.460 --> 00:43:46.739
No, no, I mean the writers do it to her.

739
00:43:46.800 --> 00:43:48.539
Like they try and make her look like an idiot.

740
00:43:48.599 --> 00:43:49.320
You know what I mean?

741
00:43:49.380 --> 00:43:54.719
Maybe Liz doesn't have a bar of it, but Holmes is a bit mean to Sarah Jane as a character, but...

742
00:43:54.719 --> 00:43:58.019
Holmes likes that kind of underplayed cruelty, doesn't he?

743
00:43:58.079 --> 00:43:59.400
He likes throwing that in, yeah.

744
00:43:59.460 --> 00:44:03.900
Like he makes Sarah say things that make her look like an idiot sort of thing.

745
00:44:03.960 --> 00:44:05.699
Murderer time warrior.

746
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:08.340
No, I was just actually adding that.

747
00:44:09.300 --> 00:44:12.840
But Ruth doesn't get to recover a bit.

748
00:44:12.900 --> 00:44:22.260
You know, she goads Sergeant Benton into action, like, we just going to sit here and then, you know, when they're trying to control Tom Tit again after the masters left.

749
00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:27.659
She's like, right, Stu, disconnect the thermal lobes and load up the homemic regulator.

750
00:44:27.719 --> 00:44:28.619
Oh, what do you want me to do?

751
00:44:28.679 --> 00:44:29.699
You stand there and look pretty.

752
00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:31.079
Yeah, I like it too.

753
00:44:31.139 --> 00:44:31.920
I love that as well.

754
00:44:31.980 --> 00:44:33.480
So generally, I love her character.

755
00:44:33.539 --> 00:44:36.780
The only thing I don't really like about her character is that she's not Liz.

756
00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:37.679
We're in Cambridge.

757
00:44:37.739 --> 00:44:38.639
They should have got Liz.

758
00:44:38.699 --> 00:44:39.719
No, we didn't even mention it.

759
00:44:40.139 --> 00:44:40.500
No.

760
00:44:40.559 --> 00:44:44.400
So can I tell you about the 2nd thing that I think is makes this story terrible?

761
00:44:44.460 --> 00:44:45.360
If you must.

762
00:44:45.420 --> 00:44:48.119
The plot is just absolute garbage.

763
00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:49.079
It's so bad.

764
00:44:49.139 --> 00:44:51.420
It's full of all of these sort of elements.

765
00:44:51.480 --> 00:44:52.500
I disagree with you again.

766
00:44:52.559 --> 00:44:52.860
Go on.

767
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:54.000
All of these elements.

768
00:44:54.059 --> 00:45:01.199
So Stu becomes an old man for no real reason and then gets younger an episode later again for no real reason.

769
00:45:01.260 --> 00:45:04.800
None of the characters actually does this to him or fixes it.

770
00:45:04.860 --> 00:45:06.840
It just happens and then it unhappens.

771
00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:18.059
The master has Dr. Percival for the 1st 2 episodes as his sidekick and then Cronos kills him for no other reason than he's got another sidekick and we don't want all these sidekicks cluttering up the place.

772
00:45:18.119 --> 00:45:23.940
Everyone gets to move very slowly for an episode for no reason and then pertly rescues them.

773
00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:32.219
You know, the master ejects pertry into the time vortex and 2 minutes later, Joe retrieves him by pressing a button on the TARDIS console.

774
00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:33.480
Do you know what I mean?

775
00:45:33.539 --> 00:45:36.659
The dog spends half an episode building the time flow analogue.

776
00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:42.300
It works for 10 seconds, has no discernable effect, and then it explodes for no reason.

777
00:45:42.360 --> 00:45:52.559
Baby Benton appears in one scene and then in a scene at the end, he's clearly only there to give us the hilarious, you know, tag scene at the end of episode six.

778
00:45:52.619 --> 00:46:03.480
All these elements come in and go absolutely precisely nowhere, they just get resolved as quickly as they come up and all they're doing is marking time.

779
00:46:03.480 --> 00:46:07.860
And it's exactly what Sloman did with the heat barrier of the previous year.

780
00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:09.179
Do you know what I mean?

781
00:46:09.239 --> 00:46:13.500
Like at the end of the demons, we complained and complained about the pacing problems of the demons.

782
00:46:13.559 --> 00:46:14.639
Here.

783
00:46:14.699 --> 00:46:17.039
This barely has a plot.

784
00:46:17.099 --> 00:46:18.960
It's just a bunch of things that happen.

785
00:46:19.019 --> 00:46:21.960
See, I think that's because it's 3 two-parters.

786
00:46:22.500 --> 00:46:28.739
It's three, two-part stories, written in the style of a 40s serial.

787
00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:32.159
Is Robert Solomon playing with the ideas of time.

788
00:46:32.219 --> 00:46:33.780
So what does time do to you with ages you?

789
00:46:33.840 --> 00:46:34.980
Okay, we'll have a character age.

790
00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:37.619
Okay, I've had someone age, now I'll use someone.

791
00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:43.440
Ah, now what if I had people in one speed of time and people in another speed of time?

792
00:46:43.500 --> 00:46:44.159
So we'll put that in.

793
00:46:44.219 --> 00:46:45.780
We'll freeze people in time.

794
00:46:45.840 --> 00:46:47.940
Now, I'm not saying it's really well done.

795
00:46:48.059 --> 00:46:49.800
You probably should have gotten released.

796
00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:57.719
You probably should have focussed on one or 2 things, but at the same time, none of the ideas stick around long enough to outwear their welcome.

797
00:46:57.780 --> 00:47:02.219
No, sometimes they subcribe for like 5 minutes of screen time.

798
00:47:02.280 --> 00:47:05.880
Don't you think the time flow analogue out stays as welcome?

799
00:47:05.940 --> 00:47:12.119
Not really, because I'd always thought the time flow analogue was a bit silly until I rewatched it recently for the podcast.

800
00:47:12.119 --> 00:47:17.820
And I was specifically looking for something in the plot that justifies the bloody time flow analogue.

801
00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:20.099
It's crisis' pendant.

802
00:47:20.219 --> 00:47:29.400
The master takes the pendant and uses the geometric designs on it as a constant in terms of measurement in terms of time.

803
00:47:29.460 --> 00:47:31.320
In the original script.

804
00:47:31.380 --> 00:47:37.320
The master actually has the line of it doesn't matter if something is centimetres or inches so long as the measurements remain constantly with each other.

805
00:47:37.380 --> 00:47:39.480
He talks about the ratios of proportions.

806
00:47:39.599 --> 00:47:40.079
Yeah, exactly.

807
00:47:40.139 --> 00:47:43.920
And that is how the doctor explains the time flow analogue as well.

808
00:47:43.980 --> 00:47:45.780
It is not the items that are important.

809
00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:48.659
It is how they are arranged in relationship to each other.

810
00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:52.800
No, he talks about their molecular structure as well, you can't retrieve that.

811
00:47:52.860 --> 00:47:55.679
I can and I just... you know, Gareth can.

812
00:47:55.739 --> 00:48:06.599
Gareth, Gareth Roberts, of course, has a sort of loving tribute to the stupid time flow analogue in the lodger where he creates that giant thing out of umbrellas and things.

813
00:48:06.659 --> 00:48:12.420
And the doctor even tries to pass it off as a piece of modern art, which is what both of them.

814
00:48:12.480 --> 00:48:14.039
Yeah, yeah, it's what both of them do.

815
00:48:14.099 --> 00:48:19.559
I think, actually, Nanamouskurri was wearing it on her earlier appearances on the 2 Ronnies.

816
00:48:19.619 --> 00:48:20.820
She just broken through in the charts.

817
00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:35.340
Because, you know, with the Hunter, or with the Greek military uprising in 67, you had a lot of Greek people coming into London and there were lots of restaurants and, you know, and there were Domardis and there were donor kebabs, although I think they had just ooze over there.

818
00:48:35.400 --> 00:48:37.860
But you know, it was the great thing was the trendy thing.

819
00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:39.300
All that Cretan jazz.

820
00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:40.199
All that, exactly.

821
00:48:40.260 --> 00:48:44.340
And terracotta weeks and sensibilities.

822
00:48:44.400 --> 00:48:50.460
But no, anonymous curry, that year, she'd been charting and she'd be on the 2 runnings, wearing exactly that pendant.

823
00:48:50.519 --> 00:48:55.559
With the backing vocals provided by those that big umbrella machine.

824
00:48:55.619 --> 00:48:57.840
Can we go to Atlantis?

825
00:48:57.900 --> 00:49:00.059
Oh, look, you know what?

826
00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:00.960
Gorgeous sets.

827
00:49:01.019 --> 00:49:03.480
So my to 4 point is, I think it's stunning.

828
00:49:03.539 --> 00:49:04.739
And you know what?

829
00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:07.559
The principal players are not that bad.

830
00:49:07.619 --> 00:49:11.099
I think Dalios is a bit of a worry, but oh, he's lovely.

831
00:49:11.219 --> 00:49:12.840
I love...

832
00:49:12.960 --> 00:49:14.400
I love Ingrid Pitt, isn't it?

833
00:49:14.460 --> 00:49:15.780
Oh, yeah, it's impossible.

834
00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:39.000
We actually get proper BBC Shakespeare-ish classics with her performance and in fact, with the sets and the look of this, This would not have been at all odd for any of the viewers sitting at home who were at school at the time or maybe in professions like yours that, you know, I said, she's totally convincing as a BBC classics naughty old Medea type of queeny type person.

835
00:49:39.059 --> 00:49:49.559
In fact, she's really explicitly sneaking around on Dahlias, of course, because she says, you know, she's talking with her maid and they're talking about him. that one.

836
00:49:49.619 --> 00:49:50.880
I shall have a bit of that one.

837
00:49:50.940 --> 00:49:54.179
She's actually the John Collins of the Asian world, isn't she?

838
00:49:54.239 --> 00:49:54.960
Well, May West.

839
00:49:55.019 --> 00:49:57.179
You get the impression that she's had an affair.

840
00:49:57.360 --> 00:49:57.900
She won't sink.

841
00:49:58.019 --> 00:50:02.820
Well, you do get the impression that you've, that she's already had an affair with hippy ass.

842
00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:04.500
Oh, so she says she has.

843
00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:06.840
She knows that he cloy on her tongue.

844
00:50:06.900 --> 00:50:14.219
Well, he says, when he comes in, he says, I was I was expecting to see the sympathetic and shy young girl and now I've got this ice queen.

845
00:50:14.280 --> 00:50:20.280
But he also says that he expected to be sent on a message, you know, for some other lordling.

846
00:50:20.340 --> 00:50:22.139
So there are other people.

847
00:50:22.139 --> 00:50:24.719
And then, of course, she fancies the master something wrong.

848
00:50:24.780 --> 00:50:25.199
I like that.

849
00:50:25.500 --> 00:50:26.460
I shan't have that one, yes.

850
00:50:26.519 --> 00:50:30.420
And the master tries his charm on her and she's not having a bar.

851
00:50:30.480 --> 00:50:32.099
It's like, no, you are mine.

852
00:50:32.159 --> 00:50:33.840
Who's queen?

853
00:50:33.900 --> 00:50:36.659
Yeah, she's actually very convincing in her royal disposition.

854
00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:43.019
And when she meets Joe, it's one of those few scenes that Cody's given where both characters are entirely sympathetic and really believable.

855
00:50:43.079 --> 00:50:47.159
Look, when the queen looks at her, you know, what's this handshake and why would I repeat myself?

856
00:50:47.219 --> 00:50:52.619
She's willing to come forward and willing to meet, but never forget her position.

857
00:50:52.679 --> 00:50:53.039
Yes.

858
00:50:53.039 --> 00:50:54.780
She's terrific really well.

859
00:50:54.840 --> 00:50:56.519
Yeah, she might be interesting in it.

860
00:50:56.579 --> 00:50:58.739
Well, it's just a relief to get someone who's acting.

861
00:50:58.800 --> 00:50:59.340
Yeah, yeah.

862
00:51:00.179 --> 00:51:03.360
Also acting, of course, is Kronos.

863
00:51:04.500 --> 00:51:07.440
Straight from the parents' people. love that.

864
00:51:07.500 --> 00:51:09.000
Yeah, well, where do we go with that?

865
00:51:09.239 --> 00:51:11.280
So it really must be, is it the worst?

866
00:51:11.340 --> 00:51:13.739
realised monster so far?

867
00:51:13.800 --> 00:51:15.239
I think, you know what?

868
00:51:15.300 --> 00:51:17.639
I think the biggest problem is...

869
00:51:17.639 --> 00:51:22.199
Joan Sutherland hadn't finished with the frock before they put it onto Chronos the Carnival, yeah.

870
00:51:22.260 --> 00:51:24.840
I think the big I think the big problem is just showing it.

871
00:51:24.900 --> 00:51:25.739
Don't show it.

872
00:51:25.800 --> 00:51:27.719
Keep the camera out of focus.

873
00:51:27.780 --> 00:51:28.860
Well, and they do try and do that.

874
00:51:28.920 --> 00:51:30.360
I mean, they had the birds flapping.

875
00:51:30.420 --> 00:51:36.000
And originally the appearance effect was going to be with a variety of different birds flapping.

876
00:51:36.059 --> 00:51:43.440
So you would just see all these wing shapes and a ghostly ethereal being would come out of it.

877
00:51:43.500 --> 00:51:46.380
And of course, we got the Doctor Who equivalent instead.

878
00:51:46.679 --> 00:51:49.199
Yeah, which is really terrible. and they try and hide it.

879
00:51:49.260 --> 00:51:52.559
Like the scene where it attacks Atlantis at the end, it's barely visible.

880
00:51:52.619 --> 00:52:06.000
Clearly the director has said, get that thing out of my shot. you know, And they do the thing too, where they kind of, it's very white and they light it and they hope that it's going to flare out the videotape. front axial projections.

881
00:52:06.059 --> 00:52:08.400
Oh, they do use front axial projection.

882
00:52:08.460 --> 00:52:09.659
That axial projection.

883
00:52:09.719 --> 00:52:10.860
So, yeah, I deal with that.

884
00:52:10.860 --> 00:52:11.639
Quite enough of it, though.

885
00:52:11.699 --> 00:52:26.880
Dear listener, for those of you who don't know, front tacks, your projection is when you paint a costume or object with a certain phosphorescent... not phosphorescent, it's sort of like...

886
00:52:26.880 --> 00:52:27.420
Pearlescent.

887
00:52:27.480 --> 00:52:30.119
Yeah, you we're sort of an emperor.

888
00:52:30.239 --> 00:52:31.320
Silver Nemesis will do it.

889
00:52:31.380 --> 00:52:33.000
We'll also see it next year in the Green Death.

890
00:52:33.059 --> 00:52:38.639
And then when you shine a light on it, The light reflects, but it doesn't reflect the way a mirror would.

891
00:52:38.699 --> 00:52:46.199
It sort of absorbs the light 1st and then reflects it back a millisecond light, meaning you get a glowing effect rather than a reflection effect.

892
00:52:46.260 --> 00:52:47.400
Well, you do.

893
00:52:47.460 --> 00:52:49.199
There are some shots where you can see it.

894
00:52:49.260 --> 00:52:51.480
It is kind of blowing out.

895
00:52:51.539 --> 00:52:52.199
Clears the hotel.

896
00:52:52.260 --> 00:52:56.460
I just kind of wish they, you know, they've done it with just the shadow of the creature.

897
00:52:56.519 --> 00:52:57.840
Like you sort of see the flapping.

898
00:52:57.900 --> 00:52:58.440
I've never seen.

899
00:52:58.559 --> 00:52:59.699
Look, you know, thank you.

900
00:52:59.760 --> 00:53:04.380
There's that cat people, the Tourneau, the Jacques Tournay film of 1942.

901
00:53:04.500 --> 00:53:06.300
And its sequel, both excellent film.

902
00:53:06.420 --> 00:53:18.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was not as successful, but he also did, we've mentioned him before, but he's a terrific early RKO horror director who whose shots would have been perfect for this story.

903
00:53:18.840 --> 00:53:19.800
You never see the cat.

904
00:53:19.860 --> 00:53:20.880
You never see the village.

905
00:53:20.940 --> 00:53:22.619
You just see the shadows on the wall.

906
00:53:22.679 --> 00:53:23.400
Gee it works well.

907
00:53:23.460 --> 00:53:30.179
It was also the 1st film to use that technique, which is so famous in horror films, which is having silence, silence, silence.

908
00:53:30.239 --> 00:53:31.380
And then a loud noise.

909
00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:33.239
No, that's called Tristram Curry.

910
00:53:33.300 --> 00:53:37.019
But the loud noise is then something non-threatening.

911
00:53:37.139 --> 00:53:46.380
So where it's used in cat people is she is walking along the side of the street and she thinks she can hear that.

912
00:53:46.440 --> 00:53:48.539
How much love becomes up and she's, no, sorry.

913
00:53:48.599 --> 00:53:50.219
Can I hear the cat?

914
00:53:50.280 --> 00:53:51.480
We should probably come back to it.

915
00:53:51.539 --> 00:53:53.760
There is a hissing sound like a big panther.

916
00:53:53.820 --> 00:53:54.179
Oh my god.

917
00:53:54.239 --> 00:53:55.320
John Nathan Turner.

918
00:53:55.440 --> 00:53:56.760
No, it's the hydraulic door of a bus.

919
00:53:56.880 --> 00:53:59.280
How often those 2 have been confused.

920
00:53:59.340 --> 00:54:05.039
I would like to get a sample of you saying surprise and make that my text tone.

921
00:54:05.400 --> 00:54:07.800
Can I do that?

922
00:54:08.460 --> 00:54:10.619
I was thinking that was...

923
00:54:10.619 --> 00:54:12.360
I was thinking that was some hippayas.

924
00:54:13.440 --> 00:54:15.360
Can I just say that?

925
00:54:15.420 --> 00:54:19.320
really love the jumping around that this story does.

926
00:54:19.380 --> 00:54:20.639
Hello?

927
00:54:20.639 --> 00:54:22.380
Because, well, exactly.

928
00:54:22.980 --> 00:54:31.739
Doctor Who, for the past few years, really since the Chase, hasn't had a story that's set in 2 locations continuously.

929
00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:34.139
The closest we get is Inferno and Day of the Daleks.

930
00:54:34.260 --> 00:54:35.340
There's a reason for that.

931
00:54:35.400 --> 00:54:41.579
But in this story, there's something exciting about it because the story twists and turns so much.

932
00:54:41.639 --> 00:54:42.840
You don't know where you're going there.

933
00:54:42.900 --> 00:54:46.260
Because you get the scenes in the TARDIS in the middle and then you get Atlantis and stuff.

934
00:54:46.320 --> 00:55:01.260
Yeah, I think also before that, you've got, you've got, you've got the Cambridge lab, you've got the rooms around Cambridge, then you've got the convoy on its way, then you've got the TARDIS, then you've got Atlantis, and then it all comes back.

935
00:55:01.320 --> 00:55:02.880
Look, it's messy.

936
00:55:02.940 --> 00:55:07.679
Don't get me wrong, but I think it's also really exciting that they are trying something new.

937
00:55:07.860 --> 00:55:22.019
Like we were saying with the mutants, and I know you don't agree, Richard, but if there is a criticism that could be laid at that story, it is perhaps that the characters are stagnant character models, that we have seen this type of story before.

938
00:55:22.679 --> 00:55:27.239
For better or for worse, I don't think you can say you've seen anything like the Time Monster before.

939
00:55:27.300 --> 00:55:29.340
I'm very fond of this story.

940
00:55:29.400 --> 00:55:38.699
I do think you could have done with some judicious cutting and perhaps losing a couple of episodes that I can think you can say that for a lot of the 6 parties, except for sea devils maybe, just because there's so much going on.

941
00:55:38.760 --> 00:55:43.559
I think, I mean, it's worth talking about what sort of badness the poetry era does.

942
00:55:43.619 --> 00:55:44.340
Do you know what I mean?

943
00:55:44.400 --> 00:55:47.159
Like, I think that this is probably the worst story.

944
00:55:47.219 --> 00:55:52.440
Maybe Monster of Paladon is worse, but I think it's still enjoyable.

945
00:55:52.500 --> 00:55:54.059
The worst poetry story.

946
00:55:54.119 --> 00:55:54.719
Really?

947
00:55:54.780 --> 00:55:55.800
Time Monster?

948
00:55:55.860 --> 00:55:56.699
quite a lot.

949
00:55:56.760 --> 00:55:58.199
Yeah, I wouldn't say that.

950
00:55:58.260 --> 00:56:00.659
No, I wouldn't say that. very entertaining.

951
00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:02.159
But that's what I'm saying.

952
00:56:02.219 --> 00:56:05.400
Even a band per twee story is actually pretty entertaining.

953
00:56:05.400 --> 00:56:07.800
And you've got the big regular cast.

954
00:56:07.860 --> 00:56:09.480
You've got people doing their party pieces.

955
00:56:09.539 --> 00:56:11.820
You know, you've got the master.

956
00:56:11.880 --> 00:56:14.340
Like all of that stuff is actually quite fun.

957
00:56:14.400 --> 00:56:16.019
And so I enjoy this.

958
00:56:16.079 --> 00:56:21.719
I didn't think that the demons was as good as I remembered it last year, but I still thought it was pretty enjoyable.

959
00:56:21.780 --> 00:56:38.039
So I think that even when there's a misfire, like this story, that it never falls below a certain level of competence and a certain level of entertainment value, there's nothing in the purse we era to kind of equal, you know, the celestial toy maker.

960
00:56:38.099 --> 00:56:38.880
Do you know what I mean?

961
00:56:38.940 --> 00:56:40.920
It never, ever got...

962
00:56:40.980 --> 00:56:42.179
We don't have that wrong.

963
00:56:42.239 --> 00:56:42.840
That's wild.

964
00:56:43.260 --> 00:56:48.539
Although there is a point of the story that seems to draw more eye on anything else.

965
00:56:48.900 --> 00:56:50.820
The Tartar set.

966
00:56:51.000 --> 00:56:53.519
Thank you for getting back to that. you love it?

967
00:56:53.579 --> 00:56:54.000
Yes.

968
00:56:54.300 --> 00:56:54.840
I love it.

969
00:56:55.199 --> 00:56:57.900
I think we've all made cupcakes at home.

970
00:56:57.960 --> 00:56:59.760
We can all see the point of those walls.

971
00:56:59.820 --> 00:57:00.780
This is what people don't get.

972
00:57:00.840 --> 00:57:14.579
The Capelli designs that were really featured strongly in the 68 Milano design fair in Italy that you subsequently see turning up the vac form plastic and the fibreglass things that you see.

973
00:57:14.639 --> 00:57:26.579
The Vernapant and things of the early 60s, but pretty much watch every episode of Space 1979 or everything that was made in the early 70s. those beautiful formed white furniture thing.

974
00:57:26.639 --> 00:57:29.940
This is absolutely contemporaneous and it's good design.

975
00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:30.480
I like it.

976
00:57:30.539 --> 00:57:34.739
I actually kind of disappointed that they didn't upgrade the console to go with it.

977
00:57:34.800 --> 00:57:36.300
And I think that's why the set doesn't work.

978
00:57:36.360 --> 00:57:49.500
It was called Modular, the whole look and that lettering, you know, the microgrammar lettering, the space style that you see on space 1999 that ends up on sky base in that whole look is very much of this period.

979
00:57:49.559 --> 00:57:51.900
They didn't actually go far enough with it.

980
00:57:51.960 --> 00:57:53.219
And I think that's why it didn't work.

981
00:57:53.280 --> 00:58:00.119
I also think it's a great relief given how tired and minimal the Tartar set had been during the Pertuy era.

982
00:58:00.179 --> 00:58:02.460
We've only seen it a few times, but it's pretty perfunctory.

983
00:58:02.519 --> 00:58:03.420
The corner of the room.

984
00:58:03.480 --> 00:58:06.000
Well, it's a corner of your dad's office, isn't it?

985
00:58:06.000 --> 00:58:07.260
Including the filing cabinet.

986
00:58:07.260 --> 00:58:10.139
And, you know, like those terrible photographic blowups and stuff.

987
00:58:10.199 --> 00:58:11.880
It was looking really tired.

988
00:58:11.940 --> 00:58:13.619
This is groovy.

989
00:58:13.679 --> 00:58:17.280
I love how the master's version has chocolate fountain in the middle of it.

990
00:58:17.400 --> 00:58:19.980
I'm sorry, is that another euphemist?

991
00:58:20.039 --> 00:58:22.320
No, no, your time rotor looks like a chocolate fountain.

992
00:58:22.380 --> 00:58:22.860
No, it wasn't.

993
00:58:22.920 --> 00:58:27.119
I don't think you should be using that kind of language is a family podcast.

994
00:58:27.179 --> 00:58:28.800
I won't invite you around for fondue.

995
00:58:29.340 --> 00:58:31.920
No, we've done that, but...

996
00:58:31.920 --> 00:58:52.139
Anyway, no, I really do think it's a shame that the console is staying in the Brakaki original, and how sexy would it have looked with a slightly curved, moulded my pick of the episode would be to go and look at any of Colani's designs, which are very much influenced of this form of circularity and curvaciousness and a Kalani console.

997
00:58:52.199 --> 00:59:00.059
I might do a little drawing and stick it on the website to show just how fabulous this whole story might have been with, oh goodness, what a fanboy thing to do.

998
00:59:00.119 --> 00:59:01.860
But anyway, I think that's a wonderful idea, Richard.

999
00:59:01.920 --> 00:59:03.539
I really hope you do that homework for me.

1000
00:59:03.599 --> 00:59:08.400
Now, I have been unresting in my praise of this story, I suppose.

1001
00:59:08.460 --> 00:59:18.659
And I will say the one thing I find that's kind of kind of problematic about it is it's really starting to see the sort of dumbing down of unit.

1002
00:59:18.719 --> 00:59:20.400
Oh, absolutely.

1003
00:59:20.460 --> 00:59:21.360
Thanks for mentioning that.

1004
00:59:21.420 --> 00:59:23.579
Yes, it's getting a little...

1005
00:59:23.639 --> 00:59:24.659
Nathan, what's the word you'd use?

1006
00:59:24.719 --> 00:59:26.400
Ah, exhausting.

1007
00:59:26.760 --> 00:59:27.719
That's the one. you.

1008
00:59:27.780 --> 00:59:31.380
You know, it also doesn't help that all 3 of them need a jolly good hair. cut.

1009
00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:33.239
They're a bit wet, aren't they?

1010
00:59:33.300 --> 00:59:34.079
They're a bit dark.

1011
00:59:34.139 --> 00:59:36.059
I don't think it's just that they don't have a blow dryer.

1012
00:59:36.119 --> 00:59:37.559
They're a bit soggy.

1013
00:59:37.619 --> 00:59:39.179
Brigady is really stupid.

1014
00:59:39.300 --> 00:59:40.199
Well, he's cranky.

1015
00:59:40.199 --> 00:59:41.820
And mouthy.

1016
00:59:41.880 --> 00:59:44.099
Benton actually, I think, is the most sympathetic.

1017
00:59:44.159 --> 00:59:46.739
I really like the way Benton takes on the master.

1018
00:59:46.800 --> 00:59:47.699
Yeah, yeah, it's good.

1019
00:59:47.760 --> 00:59:48.420
It's convincing.

1020
00:59:48.480 --> 00:59:49.440
It actually works.

1021
00:59:49.500 --> 00:59:50.579
Well, mate, you just try it.

1022
00:59:50.639 --> 00:59:55.079
I love the mask going, no, Mr. Benton, that was the oldest trick in the book.

1023
00:59:55.139 --> 00:59:56.280
He's fabulous.

1024
00:59:56.340 --> 01:00:00.179
That's why the master won't kill any of them because he's having too much.

1025
01:00:00.239 --> 01:00:00.719
He loves them.

1026
01:00:00.780 --> 01:00:01.380
Yes.

1027
01:00:01.440 --> 01:00:01.679
Yeah.

1028
01:00:01.739 --> 01:00:06.239
Benton is easily the most capable member of unit in this story.

1029
01:00:06.360 --> 01:00:09.960
Everything that happens brigadier says, oh, no, no, that can't possibly be happening.

1030
01:00:10.079 --> 01:00:12.599
It's like, you've bloody seen spaghetti monsters.

1031
01:00:12.659 --> 01:00:21.659
Yeah, it's a bit Counsellor Troy, mid-run, next generation trek when we just have to reboot every episode because, you know, we're in syndication.

1032
01:00:21.719 --> 01:00:23.219
Doctor Who doesn't have that excuse.

1033
01:00:23.280 --> 01:00:29.400
Doctor Who was the 1st series to properly story arc, soap operas don't count, and they're forgetting it, aren't they?

1034
01:00:29.460 --> 01:00:34.980
Yeah, and it's a shame, really, because it seems like the reason they're doing it is to make the doctor seem more clever.

1035
01:00:35.039 --> 01:00:45.960
And I know I said on the podcast that one of the things I really hate in any kind of storytelling is making one character look clever, not by making them look clever, but by making the people around them look stupid.

1036
01:00:46.019 --> 01:00:47.940
It's bad child rearing, isn't it?

1037
01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:48.900
You don't do it in a family.

1038
01:00:48.900 --> 01:00:52.679
You don't do it with your school with your school charges either.

1039
01:00:52.739 --> 01:00:55.800
But also, it actually just makes your hero look more stupid.

1040
01:00:55.860 --> 01:01:03.900
Like pert we said, with Carrie John not going down in the caves in a miniskirt, he would say Doctor Who would not work with someone who would do something.

1041
01:01:03.960 --> 01:01:05.820
Because it actually brings the doctor down.

1042
01:01:05.820 --> 01:01:07.019
Exactly. so to speak.

1043
01:01:07.079 --> 01:01:08.159
Are we still talking about min skirts?

1044
01:01:08.219 --> 01:01:15.659
And the fun thing about the brigadier is that in some ways, he was sort of more savvy than the doctor.

1045
01:01:15.719 --> 01:01:27.000
Yeah, he was amused by the doctor, you know, and we talked about that sort of curl of the lip and that kind of rye and he, you know, attitude.

1046
01:01:27.059 --> 01:01:28.559
He was smart, he was clever.

1047
01:01:28.619 --> 01:01:31.860
He was kind of funny, but here he's turning into a blustering idiot.

1048
01:01:31.920 --> 01:01:37.980
It's only going to get worse spoiler alert in the next story at the start of next year.

1049
01:01:38.039 --> 01:01:40.139
And I think it's a big shame.

1050
01:01:40.260 --> 01:01:43.260
And I don't think it's a degeneration of his character.

1051
01:01:43.320 --> 01:01:45.840
I don't think this is where he's headed from here on in.

1052
01:01:45.900 --> 01:01:46.500
Do you know what I mean?

1053
01:01:46.559 --> 01:01:47.699
It's an aberration.

1054
01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:48.420
It's a blip.

1055
01:01:48.480 --> 01:01:49.380
Thankfully.

1056
01:01:49.440 --> 01:01:56.039
But the trouble is, it's a blip in a story that Barry Letts has his fingerprints all over.

1057
01:01:56.099 --> 01:01:56.639
Yeah, yeah.

1058
01:01:56.699 --> 01:02:01.440
Well, as Richard said earlier, I do think this story is an attempt to do a proper comedy.

1059
01:02:02.280 --> 01:02:04.199
Romans, is it though?

1060
01:02:04.260 --> 01:02:05.519
Yeah, it's not the Romans.

1061
01:02:05.579 --> 01:02:07.559
I don't I don't think Doctor Who. who doesn't.

1062
01:02:07.619 --> 01:02:11.579
Doctor Who has found it very difficult to support comedy every time it's attempted, which is very often.

1063
01:02:11.639 --> 01:02:12.900
That's true.

1064
01:02:12.960 --> 01:02:14.219
For some reason, just doesn't.

1065
01:02:14.280 --> 01:02:19.260
No, my biggest disappointment in this story is you've said, is that the brigadier is so poorly served.

1066
01:02:19.320 --> 01:02:29.039
And you do notice throughout the last few seasons that it's only Nick's sidelines and sardonic grin or a certain little thing that he'll throw in that elevates the character.

1067
01:02:29.099 --> 01:02:31.619
He's really poorly served and underwritten.

1068
01:02:32.400 --> 01:02:34.619
It's bit dumbed down.

1069
01:02:34.679 --> 01:02:35.159
Yeah.

1070
01:02:35.760 --> 01:02:37.860
Just before we go on.

1071
01:02:37.920 --> 01:02:38.280
Oh, yes.

1072
01:02:38.340 --> 01:02:42.000
Jenny Lairds and our picks of the week in Welsh Watch.

1073
01:02:42.059 --> 01:02:45.780
Purvy, windowy, washy, Walsh.

1074
01:02:45.840 --> 01:02:46.440
Yeah, yeah.

1075
01:02:46.500 --> 01:02:52.440
Terry Walsh plays a window cleaner who was surprised by a vase appearing out of thin air.

1076
01:02:52.500 --> 01:02:56.460
Surprise and falls down from a ladder.

1077
01:02:56.579 --> 01:02:59.400
That's Walsh Watch for this season.

1078
01:02:59.460 --> 01:03:01.320
It's so terrible though.

1079
01:03:01.380 --> 01:03:04.440
Because, like, the brigadier and some...

1080
01:03:04.440 --> 01:03:06.360
He does a lovely prep for, though, is really good.

1081
01:03:06.420 --> 01:03:09.179
But the brigadier and some civil servants come along.

1082
01:03:09.239 --> 01:03:10.199
Feel him up a bit.

1083
01:03:10.199 --> 01:03:11.460
And they go, oh, he's still alive.

1084
01:03:11.519 --> 01:03:13.199
And then the Civil Servant just sort of walks.

1085
01:03:13.260 --> 01:03:13.920
Yeah, bugger off.

1086
01:03:14.519 --> 01:03:18.480
No, I love the ambulance. shows what a bastard, this whole sermon is.

1087
01:03:18.539 --> 01:03:20.400
It's a cut price, Steve.

1088
01:03:20.460 --> 01:03:22.619
It's a bit of a shame that he doesn't get his cup-uppance.

1089
01:03:22.739 --> 01:03:24.059
He just sort of disappears from the plot.

1090
01:03:24.179 --> 01:03:28.079
Oh, you see him later on arguing and being ticked off by the doctors.

1091
01:03:28.079 --> 01:03:31.380
Coming back to something you were saying earlier, Nathan, I've been thinking about it.

1092
01:03:31.440 --> 01:03:42.420
The master does have a lot of instances of starting off with one henchman and then swapping them halfway through the story where they're after they're brutally murdered or... hench swapping.

1093
01:03:42.480 --> 01:03:42.840
Yes.

1094
01:03:42.900 --> 01:03:44.639
There's a lot of that in the early 70s.

1095
01:03:44.820 --> 01:03:45.659
Yes, they're cold.

1096
01:03:45.780 --> 01:03:51.300
I think the only one who actually survives is Captain Chin Li when she swapped out for Maler.

1097
01:03:51.599 --> 01:03:53.159
That's true.

1098
01:03:53.219 --> 01:03:57.539
Well, that's because she was also married to the director, so she wasn't going to be lost.

1099
01:03:57.599 --> 01:04:00.179
She wasn't going to be lost in a hench swapping party.

1100
01:04:00.239 --> 01:04:01.500
She would not have been left behind.

1101
01:04:01.559 --> 01:04:03.420
Although, you know what?

1102
01:04:03.480 --> 01:04:10.500
If I were married to a writer and the writer said, oh, I'm going to put you in a TV script, I would actually say, oh, can you give me a really good death scene?

1103
01:04:10.619 --> 01:04:13.019
Like, can I be burned to death or something?

1104
01:04:13.079 --> 01:04:15.539
You know, get your aggression out on me that way.

1105
01:04:15.599 --> 01:04:17.460
It's an interesting relationship, paradigm.

1106
01:04:18.119 --> 01:04:19.440
Tell us more.

1107
01:04:19.500 --> 01:04:20.880
Yeah, lie down here on this camp.

1108
01:04:20.940 --> 01:04:22.199
What's Rod's comment?

1109
01:04:22.260 --> 01:04:22.679
What do you want?

1110
01:04:22.739 --> 01:04:24.300
What do you think his paintings are about?

1111
01:04:27.780 --> 01:04:36.059
Okay, so aren't we move on to that time of the season, the Jenny Laird awards the most puzzling creative choice?

1112
01:04:36.659 --> 01:04:38.880
Nathan, would you like to go first?

1113
01:04:38.940 --> 01:04:44.760
Well, my Jenny Laird Award goes to 3 time Academy Award winner.

1114
01:04:45.360 --> 01:04:49.139
So he can put...

1115
01:04:49.199 --> 01:04:56.760
He can put this on his mantlepiece next to his his Oscars, which is a...

1116
01:04:56.820 --> 01:04:57.659
Well, he does a spot.

1117
01:04:57.719 --> 01:05:00.239
No, he did the Spider-Man, the last 3 Spider-Man costumes.

1118
01:05:00.300 --> 01:05:05.579
Yeah, yeah, the same designer who designed Tom Baker's costume designed the Toby Maguire Spider-Man.

1119
01:05:05.699 --> 01:05:22.320
So he did the costume for the mutants, but he gives both Jeffrey Palmer and George Prafter these unbelievably terrible dresses, which make them look paunchy and have like giantly narrow shoulders and a hugely hideously unflattering.

1120
01:05:22.380 --> 01:05:25.800
Due to mid-career time lords, didn't he?

1121
01:05:25.860 --> 01:05:28.679
He did do time lords for deadly assassin too, didn't he?

1122
01:05:28.739 --> 01:05:30.539
Yes, yeah, that was great.

1123
01:05:30.599 --> 01:05:32.460
Yeah, just crustacea collars.

1124
01:05:32.519 --> 01:05:33.539
But they have shoulders.

1125
01:05:33.599 --> 01:05:34.440
Do you know what I mean?

1126
01:05:34.500 --> 01:05:36.119
Poor old Jeffrey Palmer comes in.

1127
01:05:36.179 --> 01:05:40.320
You know, he's fabulous, but I'm just distracted by how incredibly...

1128
01:05:40.380 --> 01:05:44.760
Don't forget how Hugh Walters was dressed as Roncible.

1129
01:05:44.820 --> 01:05:46.079
But even then, you're right.

1130
01:05:46.139 --> 01:05:47.579
They had very solid shoulders.

1131
01:05:47.639 --> 01:05:48.659
Yeah, yeah, no.

1132
01:05:48.780 --> 01:05:49.619
These people are shoulderless.

1133
01:05:49.679 --> 01:05:54.840
It's really terrible And then finally, the investigator turns up and seems to be wearing a sort of brass judge's wig.

1134
01:05:54.960 --> 01:05:58.860
So like maybe it was a day off. a judge, you know.

1135
01:06:00.179 --> 01:06:01.019
Maybe it was a bad day.

1136
01:06:01.260 --> 01:06:04.079
Richard, what's your Jenny later?

1137
01:06:04.139 --> 01:06:10.619
My puzzling choice has to go to one of my heroes, as Nathan just did then, because I know that how much he really does love Mr. Rutchison.

1138
01:06:10.679 --> 01:06:14.039
My puzzling thing is, is poor old Tristram Carey, you?

1139
01:06:14.099 --> 01:06:15.480
I always loved and everything he's done.

1140
01:06:15.539 --> 01:06:20.099
And just the score for the mutants is honestly the weakest point for me in an otherwise pretty good season.

1141
01:06:20.579 --> 01:06:23.219
Dunk, dunk, dunk, dunk, dunk.

1142
01:06:23.280 --> 01:06:24.719
As they fall down the stairs.

1143
01:06:24.780 --> 01:06:35.159
It's, look, it's been a series of very much a wild experimentation and that doesn't always end up successfully, does it, for the, for the viewer or the, you don't think so?

1144
01:06:35.219 --> 01:06:37.800
I think it's the difficult 2nd album. you know what I mean?

1145
01:06:37.860 --> 01:06:40.440
I think they get season 8 pretty right.

1146
01:06:40.500 --> 01:06:43.500
It's a reboot of the show season nine. what do we do now?

1147
01:06:43.559 --> 01:06:46.260
Ratings are more successful this time round though, weren't they?

1148
01:06:46.320 --> 01:06:48.659
Bratings are doing very well around the tens.

1149
01:06:48.719 --> 01:06:52.980
Yeah, ratings were constantly in the high 9s with quite a few episodes breaking the 10s as well.

1150
01:06:53.039 --> 01:06:56.760
I think it's enjoyable and iconic, and I think that'll be even more so next year.

1151
01:06:56.820 --> 01:07:01.139
But I think maybe this is weaker than last year.

1152
01:07:01.440 --> 01:07:03.059
Great.

1153
01:07:03.119 --> 01:07:04.920
Well, you know, it's quite funny.

1154
01:07:04.980 --> 01:07:07.860
My Jenny Laird Award relates to the mutants as well.

1155
01:07:07.920 --> 01:07:12.300
He's saying this to listen, are covered in glitter. covered English, actually.

1156
01:07:12.360 --> 01:07:14.340
So it's a mutant trifecta.

1157
01:07:14.460 --> 01:07:17.280
It's getting all... pink one under your left eye.

1158
01:07:17.579 --> 01:07:18.360
This is true, listener.

1159
01:07:18.420 --> 01:07:20.400
And a gold one just near your nostril there.

1160
01:07:20.460 --> 01:07:22.380
It's like, what's a beauty box?

1161
01:07:22.440 --> 01:07:22.800
It is.

1162
01:07:23.219 --> 01:07:30.539
Now, well, I was just going to say, you know, this season is filled with strong female characters.

1163
01:07:30.599 --> 01:07:36.119
You've got Anat, you've got 3rd Officer Blythe, you've got Ruth Ingram, you've got Galea.

1164
01:07:36.179 --> 01:07:38.940
You've even got in the curse of Paladin.

1165
01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:41.820
Alpha Centauri, who is a gender queer character.

1166
01:07:41.880 --> 01:07:42.659
She does...

1167
01:07:42.659 --> 01:07:46.199
She's actually one of the Denver. 1st progressive, gender queer characters, yes.

1168
01:07:46.440 --> 01:07:48.599
Coming with its own toys.

1169
01:07:48.659 --> 01:07:56.099
At the end, the ambassador from Earth, who is the chairperson of the whole committee is a woman.

1170
01:07:56.159 --> 01:07:58.739
A fabulous...

1171
01:07:58.739 --> 01:07:59.400
Amazonia.

1172
01:07:59.460 --> 01:08:05.460
You know, she doesn't she doesn't have anything to do in the plot, but she is still a woman in a position of power.

1173
01:08:05.460 --> 01:08:10.980
On an admittedly backward planet where they've said only women of role birth can enter the throne room.

1174
01:08:11.039 --> 01:08:13.079
Well, see more of that later with Poland.

1175
01:08:13.199 --> 01:08:19.260
So my Jenny Led War for most puzzling creative choices, where are the women in the mutants?

1176
01:08:22.319 --> 01:08:23.760
Ding-dong.

1177
01:08:23.819 --> 01:08:27.720
There are no female characters apart from Joe. There are no female characters.

1178
01:08:27.779 --> 01:08:32.579
I think there may be some background women, but there are.

1179
01:08:32.640 --> 01:08:37.319
There are some like people in Chinese people and extras.

1180
01:08:37.380 --> 01:08:37.979
Do you know what I mean?

1181
01:08:38.039 --> 01:08:40.020
They're doing a conference type thing, yeah.

1182
01:08:40.079 --> 01:08:43.079
There's another guard apart from cotton is black.

1183
01:08:43.140 --> 01:08:43.680
Yeah.

1184
01:08:43.680 --> 01:08:48.180
Yeah, so there is some there is some effort in that... isn't that outrageous?

1185
01:08:48.239 --> 01:08:54.420
I think, as I say, there are some background salonians, maybe with one or 2 lines. but no characters, if you like.

1186
01:08:54.479 --> 01:09:00.300
There are female extras, but there are no female characters aside from Joe. That's so boring.

1187
01:09:00.359 --> 01:09:04.560
And, you know, any of the sporting characters could have been women.

1188
01:09:04.619 --> 01:09:06.600
Yeah, if they...

1189
01:09:06.600 --> 01:09:08.819
It does explain with the flatness of it.

1190
01:09:08.880 --> 01:09:13.260
Yeah, if they were worried about the implications of kinkiness as they were with colony in space.

1191
01:09:13.319 --> 01:09:14.819
You know, they could have made Sondergard a woman.

1192
01:09:14.880 --> 01:09:16.319
The marshal.

1193
01:09:16.380 --> 01:09:19.500
Well, that would have been...

1194
01:09:19.619 --> 01:09:24.840
Remember, the head of cereals didn't like the idea of kinky women, which is any woman who is not virtuous.

1195
01:09:25.560 --> 01:09:27.479
Yeah, well, pretty much.

1196
01:09:27.539 --> 01:09:28.680
Look at Susan Germis.

1197
01:09:29.340 --> 01:09:32.819
Yeah, that's why that's why Morgan wasn't a woman. okay.

1198
01:09:32.880 --> 01:09:35.939
So that's my, that's my Jenny Wad for puzzling creative choice.

1199
01:09:35.939 --> 01:09:36.899
That's a good one.

1200
01:09:36.960 --> 01:09:40.979
Well, we'll have to see if Bob Baker and Dave Martin improve on that score.

1201
01:09:41.039 --> 01:09:42.539
We shall see.

1202
01:09:42.720 --> 01:09:45.180
We don't know what's under Omegus Frock.

1203
01:09:45.180 --> 01:09:46.140
We've got no idea.

1204
01:09:46.199 --> 01:09:48.779
Picks, picks of the month.

1205
01:09:48.840 --> 01:09:51.180
I had two, but I'm going to just have one.

1206
01:09:51.239 --> 01:09:53.640
I'm going to save one. next month.

1207
01:09:53.699 --> 01:09:55.140
And my big of the week.

1208
01:09:55.199 --> 01:10:00.359
I am contractually obliged to mention Philip Xander for every single podcast episode.

1209
01:10:00.420 --> 01:10:01.380
This is true.

1210
01:10:01.439 --> 01:10:02.640
And Stephen Wood.

1211
01:10:02.699 --> 01:10:03.960
Yes.

1212
01:10:04.020 --> 01:10:05.579
Oh, hello, Stephen Wood.

1213
01:10:05.640 --> 01:10:05.880
Yes.

1214
01:10:05.939 --> 01:10:06.300
Yes.

1215
01:10:06.359 --> 01:10:06.899
Oh, yes.

1216
01:10:07.439 --> 01:10:07.800
Yeah, no, no.

1217
01:10:08.220 --> 01:10:08.939
We liked it.

1218
01:10:09.000 --> 01:10:09.479
Well we do.

1219
01:10:09.539 --> 01:10:15.119
But especially in that three-quarter profile, short he's got on his page height.

1220
01:10:17.220 --> 01:10:28.260
But so Sandifer has just wrapped up Tardis Rudatorum, which was his flight through entirety, he's been through Doctor Who.

1221
01:10:28.979 --> 01:10:31.920
Yeah, including some of the novels and stuff from the wilderness years.

1222
01:10:31.979 --> 01:10:33.359
And it's been really interesting.

1223
01:10:33.420 --> 01:10:35.159
It's been really fun and insightful.

1224
01:10:35.220 --> 01:10:43.319
And he's been doing the River song stories out of order, you know, because the River song stories are sort of out of order, you know, in the show.

1225
01:10:43.380 --> 01:10:50.579
And so the final one that was left that was published just last month, was the Forest of the Dead.

1226
01:10:50.640 --> 01:10:51.899
It was the last one that he had to do.

1227
01:10:51.960 --> 01:10:55.979
And instead of a review or an essay about Forest of the Dead.

1228
01:10:56.100 --> 01:11:07.680
What he did instead was a 100,000 word blog post, chronicling the entire history of Doctor Who, everything he's learned from the entire blog.

1229
01:11:07.800 --> 01:11:14.880
Now, just to give you an idea of how long 100,000 words is, pride and prejudice is 120,000 words.

1230
01:11:14.939 --> 01:11:27.119
So it's a novel length blog entry, and it is just one of the most, you know, sorry, it's just one of the most concise and brilliant descriptions of the history of Doctor Who.

1231
01:11:27.180 --> 01:11:28.319
Well, do you know what I mean?

1232
01:11:28.319 --> 01:11:32.640
Compared to... compared to us. compared to about time.

1233
01:11:32.699 --> 01:11:34.500
Do you know what I mean compared to the blog itself?

1234
01:11:34.560 --> 01:11:38.520
It's only 2000 words a year of Doctor Who.

1235
01:11:38.579 --> 01:11:41.100
It's really, really good.

1236
01:11:41.159 --> 01:11:43.079
It's really, you know?

1237
01:11:43.199 --> 01:11:43.680
Have you read it?

1238
01:11:43.739 --> 01:11:44.220
Yes.

1239
01:11:44.279 --> 01:11:44.880
Yeah.

1240
01:11:44.939 --> 01:11:48.119
I need to have a job and everything.

1241
01:11:48.180 --> 01:11:57.180
I actually, it took me 2 days because I have a job and everything, but I did stay up really late, you know, one night to, which was not reflected in your performance.

1242
01:11:57.239 --> 01:11:59.699
I was terrific at work then the next day.

1243
01:11:59.760 --> 01:12:01.079
I really recommend it.

1244
01:12:01.140 --> 01:12:02.399
I'll put a link to it in the show now.

1245
01:12:02.460 --> 01:12:02.880
Thank you.

1246
01:12:02.939 --> 01:12:04.199
I'm actually gonna go and read that now.

1247
01:12:04.260 --> 01:12:05.760
I shall go and read that now.

1248
01:12:05.819 --> 01:12:13.079
Oh, well, I'm going to be really exciting and different and unusual again and say, come and read the target novels because I'd never say anything new.

1249
01:12:13.140 --> 01:12:15.840
I really, really enjoyed sea devils.

1250
01:12:15.899 --> 01:12:23.220
I even enjoyed Dave the Daleks, but Cursive Paladin by Mr. Hales is much better than the televised version.

1251
01:12:23.279 --> 01:12:25.560
It actually carries it all through and it's quicker.

1252
01:12:25.619 --> 01:12:27.659
It's quicker to read it.

1253
01:12:27.720 --> 01:12:28.920
No, it really is.

1254
01:12:28.979 --> 01:12:33.779
Look, you get a different take on each one, but I won't say anymore because we've gone on forever.

1255
01:12:33.840 --> 01:12:41.939
Almost 100,000 words, but I really like my pick for this season would be the Curse of Paladin Noel, and I'm surprised to hear myself say it.

1256
01:12:42.000 --> 01:12:43.500
So, Can I have a quick little read?

1257
01:12:43.560 --> 01:12:44.699
I'm sure you can find it somewhere.

1258
01:12:45.300 --> 01:13:15.479
My pick of the month is related to something I posted on our Facebook page a few weeks ago, which is real-time pictures have now been rebranded as time travel TV and they are putting their back catalogue, particularly of myth makers interviews with Doctor Who stars and writers and directors and so on on their website, available to buy as DVDs or download to own. as video on demand.

1259
01:13:15.539 --> 01:13:19.079
Treasure in your own video lounge for eternity.

1260
01:13:19.140 --> 01:13:31.079
They actually have a 45 minute interview with Robert Sloman. talking about his work on the Damon. the Time Monsters, the Green Death, and Planet of the Spiders.

1261
01:13:31.140 --> 01:13:32.220
Told you he was good.

1262
01:13:32.279 --> 01:13:37.020
He also talks about why he didn't return to Doctor Who after...

1263
01:13:37.979 --> 01:13:44.220
I don't think anyone, I don't think anyone would deny that probably the Green Death and Planet of the Spiders are the 2 best scripts he worked on.

1264
01:13:44.279 --> 01:13:45.960
I think Green Best, right?

1265
01:13:46.020 --> 01:13:46.439
Oh good.

1266
01:13:46.500 --> 01:13:48.119
No, there aren't the other three.

1267
01:13:48.720 --> 01:13:52.739
But yeah, this was conducted 2 years before his death.

1268
01:13:52.800 --> 01:13:55.319
He died in 2005.

1269
01:13:55.439 --> 01:13:56.880
This was conducted in 2003.

1270
01:13:57.000 --> 01:13:59.220
Bugger, we could have had him writing for the new series.

1271
01:13:59.279 --> 01:14:03.000
So yeah, that's my that's my recommendation.

1272
01:14:03.060 --> 01:14:04.979
I mean, there's lots of lovely titles on there.

1273
01:14:05.039 --> 01:14:11.760
But that one... that one really caught my eye because, you know, because his scripts aren't are so polarising, really.

1274
01:14:11.880 --> 01:14:13.800
Are they downloads?

1275
01:14:13.800 --> 01:14:14.279
What are they?

1276
01:14:14.340 --> 01:14:26.760
So they're available as video on demand from Vimeo. the video sharing service, and each of the myth makers are available to download or stream to own.

1277
01:14:26.819 --> 01:14:29.640
So sorry, they're available for $9 US.

1278
01:14:29.699 --> 01:14:32.699
They're also available to rent for half that price for a 48 hour period.

1279
01:14:32.819 --> 01:14:35.279
The price of a mid-range mocktail.

1280
01:14:35.340 --> 01:14:36.300
Yes, that's right.

1281
01:14:36.300 --> 01:14:38.579
And a comfort of the bar of your choice.

1282
01:14:38.640 --> 01:14:44.699
Or you can have, you can get really, really piss faced at home and watch them for the same price.

1283
01:14:44.819 --> 01:14:46.680
Take your iPad to the pump.

1284
01:14:46.739 --> 01:14:50.939
Yeah, no, because you get confused after a couple and use it as a coaster.

1285
01:14:51.000 --> 01:14:52.319
Yeah, you've done that.

1286
01:14:52.380 --> 01:14:53.340
It's a trouble.

1287
01:14:53.399 --> 01:14:54.060
Who hasn't done it?

1288
01:14:54.060 --> 01:14:55.439
I almost do it in 2001.

1289
01:14:55.619 --> 01:14:56.939
You can see them.

1290
01:15:13.560 --> 01:15:17.460
Oh, well, I'm just glad that people told you that.

1291
01:15:17.520 --> 01:15:20.579
Right, I think that's, uh, all time we have today.

1292
01:15:20.640 --> 01:15:26.460
We will be back in two weeks, although, Richard, you'll be taking... have to go to Cambridge again, yeah.

1293
01:15:26.520 --> 01:15:27.659
You have to go to Cambridge again.

1294
01:15:27.720 --> 01:15:29.279
Perhaps you'll get to see Liz.

1295
01:15:29.340 --> 01:15:31.619
No one else gets to see Liz.

1296
01:15:31.680 --> 01:15:36.000
Todd will be back with us as we make our way through Doctor Who's 10th anniversary season.

1297
01:15:36.060 --> 01:15:37.680
Oh, gosh, you're gonna have a big time.

1298
01:15:37.739 --> 01:15:48.539
Yeah, the 3 doctors, Carnival of Monsters, Frontier in Space, Planet of the Daleks, and the Green Death, where there's some really quite emotional times coming up in Doctor Who.

1299
01:15:48.600 --> 01:15:51.779
And yeah, we find out that things are never stable for too long.

1300
01:15:51.840 --> 01:16:02.460
So before we go, don't forget, uh, if you come to us newly on the podcast, you can easily find our past podcasts about the 1st 2 doctors.

1301
01:16:02.520 --> 01:16:04.680
We've even index them by story.

1302
01:16:04.739 --> 01:16:09.779
So if you want to particularly hear what we said about the space pirates...

1303
01:16:09.779 --> 01:16:11.100
Everybody is waiting to hear that.

1304
01:16:11.100 --> 01:16:17.399
Or the celestial toy maker because let's face it, sometimes you can't just run your fingers down a blackboard.

1305
01:16:17.460 --> 01:16:20.220
Uh, you can listen to them there.

1306
01:16:20.279 --> 01:16:26.939
You can also find us on Facebook, flight through entirety, and on Twitter at FTE podcast.

1307
01:16:27.000 --> 01:16:31.680
If you've enjoyed listening to us, please drop us a line, send us a comment, review us on iTunes.

1308
01:16:31.739 --> 01:16:32.699
We really like that.

1309
01:16:32.760 --> 01:16:36.359
And until then, thank you very much for listening and good night.

1310
01:16:36.420 --> 01:16:37.500
Good night.

1311
01:16:37.560 --> 01:16:37.979
Thank you.

1312
01:16:41.039 --> 01:16:45.779
That was flat through entirety with Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone.

1313
01:16:45.840 --> 01:16:51.359
This episode, France and Trouncing Bouncing Busty, was reported on Sunday, 8th of March.

1314
01:16:51.420 --> 01:16:54.420
The next episode will be released on April 12th.

1315
01:16:54.479 --> 01:16:57.420
I tried to feed a rabbit to a bowl constrictor once.

1316
01:16:57.479 --> 01:16:59.880
It complained that there was a hare in its room.

1317
01:17:05.939 --> 01:17:09.000
That was flight through entirety with Nathan Bottle?

1318
01:17:09.119 --> 01:17:10.319
That was...

1319
01:17:10.319 --> 01:17:11.880
That was Flight through Entirety.

1320
01:17:11.939 --> 01:17:16.260
That was Flight Through Entirety with Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone.

1321
01:17:16.319 --> 01:17:20.579
This episode, Katie's bum was recorded on March the...

1322
01:17:21.600 --> 01:17:24.840
It's not going to be called Katie's phone.

1323
01:17:24.960 --> 01:17:25.680
No, no, no, no.

1324
01:17:25.680 --> 01:17:30.000
I think you should record it when we're not here.

1325
01:17:30.359 --> 01:17:32.939
I think you should do the one we're watching.