WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 14:02:55

1
00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:35.159
Hello, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only

2
00:00:35.159 --> 00:00:38.460
Doctor Who podcast made up of unpeople, undoing unthings, un

3
00:00:38.460 --> 00:00:38.880
together.

4
00:00:38.939 --> 00:00:40.439
Sorry, that was unforgivable.

5
00:00:40.500 --> 00:00:41.100
I'm Brendan.

6
00:00:41.159 --> 00:00:41.820
I'm Nathan.

7
00:00:41.939 --> 00:00:44.039
I'm unattainably yet still here.

8
00:00:45.060 --> 00:00:50.039
And we are back discussing the Doctor Who Stories of season nine.

9
00:00:50.100 --> 00:00:51.179
We've got two more to go today.

10
00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:54.240
So, uh, we're off on a trip into space next.

11
00:00:54.299 --> 00:00:59.100
We're heading to the planet of Solos home to the mutants.

12
00:01:08.159 --> 00:01:09.659
Thank you, Mr. Carey.

13
00:01:09.719 --> 00:01:11.519
Yes, bubble, bubble, toil, and trouble.

14
00:01:11.579 --> 00:01:13.980
In fact, this is my story and so is the next one.

15
00:01:14.040 --> 00:01:16.859
So both of you, you can both go home, maybe.

16
00:01:16.920 --> 00:01:19.920
This is it'll be the Nathan show this week. am home.

17
00:01:19.980 --> 00:01:21.060
Oh, okay, yeah.

18
00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:21.540
This is my home.

19
00:01:21.659 --> 00:01:23.879
He lives in the podcast.

20
00:01:23.939 --> 00:01:27.719
Although that's oddly topical for this story.

21
00:01:27.780 --> 00:01:29.939
People saying you people should go home and the people are

22
00:01:29.939 --> 00:01:31.439
responding, we are home.

23
00:01:31.500 --> 00:01:32.219
You came here.

24
00:01:32.459 --> 00:01:37.560
This is so, so obviously about colonialism and especially

25
00:01:37.560 --> 00:01:38.159
apartheid.

26
00:01:38.219 --> 00:01:39.239
Yeah, yeah.

27
00:01:39.299 --> 00:01:42.599
Yeah, and there's there's all sorts of elements of other things as

28
00:01:42.599 --> 00:01:42.840
well.

29
00:01:42.900 --> 00:01:46.439
Colony in space was set 500 years in the future.

30
00:01:46.500 --> 00:01:50.640
And people are just sort of mining and starting colonies and that

31
00:01:50.640 --> 00:01:51.180
kind of thing.

32
00:01:51.299 --> 00:01:54.780
And this is 1000 years in the future.

33
00:01:54.840 --> 00:01:57.719
And so this is the middle of a sort of trilogy of future stories

34
00:01:57.719 --> 00:02:02.579
that will culminate in sort of frontier in space next year.

35
00:02:02.700 --> 00:02:06.239
And this is a sort of earth future history that's sort of a bit

36
00:02:06.239 --> 00:02:06.959
standard.

37
00:02:07.019 --> 00:02:10.319
Like the new adventures picked up on it as if it's like an actual

38
00:02:10.319 --> 00:02:10.680
thing.

39
00:02:10.740 --> 00:02:13.979
Yeah, the doctor describes it as the end of Earth's empire.

40
00:02:14.039 --> 00:02:16.080
Yeah, he compares it to 2 years.

41
00:02:16.139 --> 00:02:19.800
The history of the decline and fall of the Roman Empire by Gibbon

42
00:02:19.860 --> 00:02:20.819
like he mentions Gibbon.

43
00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:25.020
And in the new series, we get reference to the 4th Human Empire by

44
00:02:25.020 --> 00:02:26.280
the year 500,000.

45
00:02:26.400 --> 00:02:28.800
So, you know, obviously it's going to rise and fall a few more

46
00:02:28.800 --> 00:02:28.979
times.

47
00:02:29.099 --> 00:02:32.219
Well, Russell pushes all of the sort of future stuff out into the

48
00:02:32.219 --> 00:02:34.860
far future, kind of, so as not to collide with this.

49
00:02:34.919 --> 00:02:39.300
So what's happened here is, you know, the Earth has colonised this

50
00:02:39.300 --> 00:02:43.740
planet has strip-minded for sort of rocket fuel, essentially

51
00:02:43.740 --> 00:02:46.560
ephesium and is about to grant it independence.

52
00:02:46.620 --> 00:02:50.639
And so it is really topical stuff about the sort of British Empire

53
00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:53.819
and it's fairly negative and anxious about the whole idea of

54
00:02:53.819 --> 00:02:55.080
colonialism, I think.

55
00:02:55.139 --> 00:02:58.439
It's really blatantly so about exploitation and about mineral

56
00:02:58.439 --> 00:03:02.460
rights and the fact that, you know, these colonial citizens

57
00:03:02.460 --> 00:03:04.919
colonised citizens had no rights over their own land.

58
00:03:04.979 --> 00:03:09.000
Yeah, so very early on, you see this sort of visualised in the

59
00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:12.060
fact that we're on a sky base, which is a big satellite.

60
00:03:12.120 --> 00:03:13.500
Bass Sky Bass?

61
00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:14.039
Sky base.

62
00:03:14.099 --> 00:03:15.180
The valiant.

63
00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:19.860
And we sort of teleport down to earth, you know, and there's a

64
00:03:19.860 --> 00:03:24.180
humans and a overlords and a Silurians thing, you know, like

65
00:03:24.180 --> 00:03:27.719
separate drinking fountains for black people in white people in

66
00:03:27.719 --> 00:03:28.379
the United States.

67
00:03:28.500 --> 00:03:30.599
And the doctor, when he sees it, actually uses the word

68
00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:31.500
segregation.

69
00:03:31.560 --> 00:03:34.560
And so that is. and quite disgustedly as well.

70
00:03:34.620 --> 00:03:36.240
You know, it's not scientific detachment.

71
00:03:36.300 --> 00:03:37.439
Oh segregation.

72
00:03:37.500 --> 00:03:37.860
Yeah.

73
00:03:37.860 --> 00:03:40.919
Yeah, and so it's on the eve of independence and we're going to

74
00:03:40.919 --> 00:03:43.560
Grand Independence. not because we've realised we've been doing

75
00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:43.979
the wrong things.

76
00:03:44.099 --> 00:03:45.900
Yeah, not humanitarian these people.

77
00:03:45.960 --> 00:03:47.280
We've run out of money.

78
00:03:47.340 --> 00:03:50.039
The earth is exhausted, it's environmentally destroyed.

79
00:03:50.099 --> 00:03:52.199
There's just no money to support solos.

80
00:03:52.259 --> 00:03:53.280
There is no thesium left.

81
00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:55.080
And so we're going to go.

82
00:03:55.139 --> 00:03:58.139
And in order to announce independence.

83
00:03:58.199 --> 00:04:02.879
We get the lovely Jeffrey Palmer arrives on Skybase, who Doctor

84
00:04:02.879 --> 00:04:06.240
Who's very own Sean Bean, because you know what happens when he

85
00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:06.659
turns up?

86
00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:08.280
Oh, he'll get killed.

87
00:04:08.340 --> 00:04:08.939
Yeah.

88
00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:10.379
Yeah, like quite early on.

89
00:04:10.439 --> 00:04:11.099
Yeah, yeah.

90
00:04:11.159 --> 00:04:14.280
Yeah, no, he really only lasts he lasts less than an episode.

91
00:04:14.340 --> 00:04:17.519
So he gives this very self-serving speech where he says, you know

92
00:04:17.519 --> 00:04:20.819
that humans and Salonians have been working together and now we've

93
00:04:20.819 --> 00:04:23.339
decided that Salonians have been developed enough that they can

94
00:04:23.339 --> 00:04:24.300
now rule themselves.

95
00:04:24.360 --> 00:04:26.579
And so there's all this sort of moral justification.

96
00:04:26.639 --> 00:04:31.139
But he does give the real kind of tawdry justification to the

97
00:04:31.139 --> 00:04:31.680
marshal.

98
00:04:32.759 --> 00:04:37.019
The marshal is Paul Whitson Jones, who we have seen previously in

99
00:04:37.019 --> 00:04:38.459
the smugglers.

100
00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:39.000
Yeah.

101
00:04:39.060 --> 00:04:42.600
And so he's sort of terribly fat and overacting and all of that.

102
00:04:42.660 --> 00:04:45.540
Nathan is actually controlling this podcast because he just

103
00:04:45.540 --> 00:04:47.100
gestures at me for names.

104
00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:48.779
That's my other contribution.

105
00:04:48.839 --> 00:04:51.180
I'm counsellor Troy.

106
00:04:51.240 --> 00:04:54.360
Lieutenant Tawney Madison in Galaxy Quest.

107
00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:56.279
That's it.

108
00:04:56.279 --> 00:04:59.639
Scorny Weaver, reading off the computer.

109
00:04:59.699 --> 00:05:04.740
You know, I'm quite happy being Nichelle Nichols or Sigourney

110
00:05:04.740 --> 00:05:08.519
Weaver or even Marina Surtis, who's really just a dark-haired

111
00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:09.300
Bonnie Langford.

112
00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:10.980
Yes, you could do worse, could he?

113
00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:15.540
In fact, what's going to happen is, and it's a sort of strange

114
00:05:15.540 --> 00:05:16.199
twist.

115
00:05:16.259 --> 00:05:21.120
The Marshall doesn't want colonialism to end because he's got a

116
00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:22.620
whole planet that he can run.

117
00:05:22.680 --> 00:05:24.000
Yeah, exactly.

118
00:05:24.060 --> 00:05:29.819
And so he has and he has Jeffrey Palmer executed and he declares

119
00:05:29.819 --> 00:05:30.899
martial law.

120
00:05:30.959 --> 00:05:35.519
And like, I don't know that much about the sort of politics of the

121
00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:38.279
time, but is this a Rhodesia thing?

122
00:05:38.339 --> 00:05:39.720
Yes, it is.

123
00:05:39.779 --> 00:05:45.000
It's the most obvious signifier is the divided teleports for

124
00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:46.379
overlords and locals.

125
00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:50.639
It's not overly complex in its, you know, political symbolism, but

126
00:05:50.639 --> 00:05:51.360
it doesn't have to be.

127
00:05:51.420 --> 00:05:52.560
It was such a topical thing.

128
00:05:52.620 --> 00:05:56.939
Yeah, so Rhodesia, at the time, all the way through the 60s, the

129
00:05:56.939 --> 00:06:00.300
British government had discussed giving independence to South

130
00:06:00.300 --> 00:06:01.139
Rhodesia.

131
00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:05.279
But the condition was that it would have to be majority rule so

132
00:06:05.279 --> 00:06:08.160
that everyone would have one vote and the white minority

133
00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:09.360
government objected to this.

134
00:06:09.420 --> 00:06:12.600
Yeah, that was considered, that was the caveat. was the only thing

135
00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:13.860
that they were going to get.

136
00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:15.000
Yeah, that's right.

137
00:06:15.060 --> 00:06:17.339
So they unilaterally declared independence.

138
00:06:17.399 --> 00:06:18.240
Do you know what I mean?

139
00:06:18.300 --> 00:06:21.300
So that the decolonisation didn't happen.

140
00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:25.500
And so it's very much around about that sort of thing.

141
00:06:25.560 --> 00:06:28.500
So there are all sorts of issues of race and empire and stuff all

142
00:06:28.500 --> 00:06:31.740
the way, sort of underneath this.

143
00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:32.040
Yeah.

144
00:06:32.100 --> 00:06:35.639
And I do find those issues very effective.

145
00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:40.259
Because straight away, we are introduced to the concept of we have

146
00:06:40.259 --> 00:06:44.399
this young, again, freedom fighter, slash terrorist, slash

147
00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:49.379
terrorist, in the form of Kai played by Garrick Hagan, who, during

148
00:06:49.379 --> 00:06:52.620
the speech to give independence, gets up and start objecting.

149
00:06:52.680 --> 00:06:55.620
And on the very surface level, you can say, shut up, you're about

150
00:06:55.620 --> 00:06:56.160
to get what you want.

151
00:06:56.220 --> 00:06:58.500
And it's actually, you know, why should this culture get what they

152
00:06:58.500 --> 00:07:01.199
want on the terms of their oppressors?

153
00:07:01.259 --> 00:07:03.300
It's a very mature scene.

154
00:07:03.360 --> 00:07:07.319
He does, he does actually, though, prevent the administrator from

155
00:07:07.319 --> 00:07:10.620
declaring that solos is independent. before we get shot.

156
00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:11.759
But that's what he is shot.

157
00:07:11.819 --> 00:07:15.240
You know, that's what, I suppose he's doing the whole pertly

158
00:07:15.240 --> 00:07:17.579
antagonising people who could actually help him.

159
00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:21.240
And in fact, everyone, like people are constantly accusing Kai of

160
00:07:21.240 --> 00:07:24.540
speechifying like every, like there's 3 or 4 times throughout the

161
00:07:24.540 --> 00:07:25.980
episodes where people tell him off.

162
00:07:26.040 --> 00:07:29.939
And I think in episode 3 or something the doctor says, look, it's

163
00:07:29.939 --> 00:07:30.959
not a political meeting.

164
00:07:31.019 --> 00:07:34.740
Just shut up and, you know, we're all on your side. with the

165
00:07:34.740 --> 00:07:35.220
speeches.

166
00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:37.980
So he's a sort of slightly ridiculous figure, I think.

167
00:07:38.040 --> 00:07:39.360
Oh no, he's not.

168
00:07:39.420 --> 00:07:40.560
I've got a car of you.

169
00:07:40.620 --> 00:07:41.579
No, Kai is not.

170
00:07:41.639 --> 00:07:44.160
Kai is the hero in here and he's the sympathetic character.

171
00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:46.920
And the fact that he argues is because, well, as we turn on the

172
00:07:46.920 --> 00:07:50.160
news, and as we later see Professor Jones, you know, the mouthy

173
00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:52.680
ones are the good boys and girls, aren't they?

174
00:07:52.740 --> 00:07:54.360
The ones that can speak her out.

175
00:07:54.779 --> 00:07:57.420
But enough characters mock him for the speech of fine.

176
00:07:57.480 --> 00:08:01.139
Because they're all the oldies and squares who aren't getting it.

177
00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:04.319
But the thing is, also, he does learn in that he starts taking

178
00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:09.120
action rather than just talking when he is given the agency to

179
00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:09.899
take action.

180
00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:14.040
And of course, he is then the 1st person to spoiler alert at the

181
00:08:14.040 --> 00:08:16.860
end evolved into the energy being.

182
00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:19.199
And what's the 1st thing he does?

183
00:08:19.259 --> 00:08:20.040
Shoot the marshal.

184
00:08:20.100 --> 00:08:22.019
Yeah, it's questionable.

185
00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:24.660
But at the same time, it's like, what other solution is there in

186
00:08:24.660 --> 00:08:25.680
the plot or that person?

187
00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:26.519
He doesn't even object.

188
00:08:26.579 --> 00:08:27.600
Just go ahead and shoot him.

189
00:08:27.660 --> 00:08:30.420
No, well, the marshal is about to turn the planet inside out and

190
00:08:30.420 --> 00:08:31.379
kill everyone now and then.

191
00:08:31.500 --> 00:08:33.059
You know, what is fat.

192
00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:37.980
But, you know, it is it is morally objectionable.

193
00:08:38.039 --> 00:08:40.860
I don't think we're meant to go, yeah, the marshal's dead.

194
00:08:40.919 --> 00:08:43.500
It's meant to be a situation of utter desperation.

195
00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:47.159
But like a glowy rainbow being. in a situation of utter

196
00:08:47.159 --> 00:08:47.759
desperation.

197
00:08:47.820 --> 00:08:50.639
He really looks stupid though, doesn't he?

198
00:08:50.700 --> 00:08:52.379
Like, he really, really looks really good.

199
00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:53.700
No, that's the thing.

200
00:08:53.759 --> 00:08:56.580
It's still divided as how this looks.

201
00:08:56.700 --> 00:09:00.120
I don't remember it on black and white, though, so I've only ever

202
00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:03.419
seen this in colour and I never bothered to turn the colour down.

203
00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:04.860
I think it looks terrific.

204
00:09:04.919 --> 00:09:07.200
I really like the trippy weirdness of it.

205
00:09:07.259 --> 00:09:09.539
And it's one of the few times where the CSO is actually worked for

206
00:09:09.539 --> 00:09:09.779
me.

207
00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:13.679
They have this new effect too, which is this sort of rainbow glowy

208
00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:15.480
thing that they use a couple of times in this story.

209
00:09:15.899 --> 00:09:17.639
They use it on.

210
00:09:17.700 --> 00:09:18.480
That's right.

211
00:09:18.539 --> 00:09:22.559
They use it on Kai. and they use it on the box and that sort of

212
00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:22.799
thing.

213
00:09:22.860 --> 00:09:26.519
Allows you use it on the croton, won't they, on the cronivol, on

214
00:09:26.519 --> 00:09:27.179
the cronivol.

215
00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:28.919
No, I think there's something different.

216
00:09:28.980 --> 00:09:30.960
I'll talk about that when it comes to Amy Stewart.

217
00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:35.100
There's something vaguely rude about what they use on the croton

218
00:09:35.100 --> 00:09:36.840
the name of it, but we'll get into that soon enough.

219
00:09:37.500 --> 00:09:42.600
Yeah, I mean, Doctor Who has been in colour for 3 years now, but

220
00:09:42.600 --> 00:09:45.419
it seems every year they do a story that's not just in colour.

221
00:09:45.480 --> 00:09:47.580
It's in bloody colour.

222
00:09:47.639 --> 00:09:50.159
So, you know, the Ambassadors of Death was in bloody colour

223
00:09:50.159 --> 00:09:51.600
and...

224
00:09:51.600 --> 00:09:52.379
Cause of acts.

225
00:09:52.379 --> 00:09:55.259
Bloody, and this year, this is this year's...

226
00:09:55.320 --> 00:09:56.940
Look, we're not just in colour.

227
00:09:57.000 --> 00:09:59.039
We're in every colour simultaneously.

228
00:09:59.100 --> 00:10:03.059
And the big scene is, of course, the scene in the big Theseum mine

229
00:10:03.059 --> 00:10:07.500
the big cavern, so to speak. which is really fabulously trippy, you

230
00:10:07.500 --> 00:10:09.480
know, with John Hollis.

231
00:10:09.539 --> 00:10:12.360
I do love John Hollis because John Hollis just plays the same part

232
00:10:12.360 --> 00:10:14.159
in everything he ever does.

233
00:10:14.220 --> 00:10:15.539
So he's Professor Sondegard.

234
00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:16.500
Yeah, he's gone native.

235
00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:17.759
He wearing lots of fabulous...

236
00:10:17.879 --> 00:10:21.120
He's actually wearing a really lovely pink, fluffy dressing gown.

237
00:10:21.179 --> 00:10:22.620
Have you noticed?

238
00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:23.759
It's a lovely dusty pink.

239
00:10:23.879 --> 00:10:26.399
But he's got it's all...

240
00:10:26.460 --> 00:10:30.120
And then he's got his, Yeah, his gorgeous necklaces and stuff.

241
00:10:30.179 --> 00:10:31.679
He's accoutrement.

242
00:10:31.740 --> 00:10:34.440
He's low bots in Empire Strikes Man.

243
00:10:34.500 --> 00:10:35.460
Yes, yes.

244
00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:39.659
He wanders around shadowing, stalking Lando Calrician with those

245
00:10:39.659 --> 00:10:40.559
sort of headphones on.

246
00:10:40.620 --> 00:10:43.139
And he turns up in Blake 7 wearing very little.

247
00:10:43.259 --> 00:10:44.279
Yes.

248
00:10:44.279 --> 00:10:47.639
No. doesn't he break rebreak Villa's arm or something?

249
00:10:47.700 --> 00:10:50.159
No, he treats Villa's broken arm.

250
00:10:50.220 --> 00:10:51.120
To be fair.

251
00:10:51.179 --> 00:10:53.340
It doesn't hurt him a lot, though.

252
00:10:53.399 --> 00:10:54.720
Well, it is Villa.

253
00:10:54.779 --> 00:10:55.440
Yeah that's true.

254
00:10:55.500 --> 00:10:58.860
And he seems to be wandering around with Blore from the monster of

255
00:10:58.860 --> 00:10:59.820
peladin in that story.

256
00:10:59.879 --> 00:11:00.960
I think there are a lovely couple.

257
00:11:01.019 --> 00:11:02.639
Blore, really?

258
00:11:02.700 --> 00:11:05.220
Well, I don't know, but it looks like him and he doesn't speak.

259
00:11:05.340 --> 00:11:06.059
Oh, so stupid.

260
00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:10.740
It's been long considered the best of this season.

261
00:11:10.799 --> 00:11:12.899
It's by the Conyo.

262
00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:14.580
How's it?

263
00:11:14.639 --> 00:11:15.899
Yeah, I thought it was.

264
00:11:15.960 --> 00:11:16.320
Is it?

265
00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:18.179
Do I still think it's the best of the season?

266
00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:21.720
I think for what it says and for how it does it, yeah, I do.

267
00:11:21.779 --> 00:11:25.259
The weird thing is that they've given Bob Baker and Dave Martin

268
00:11:25.259 --> 00:11:30.120
they get to do the political story, but they're not really up to

269
00:11:30.120 --> 00:11:30.419
it.

270
00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:35.399
And so everyone's, everyone's massively overdrawn and overacted.

271
00:11:35.460 --> 00:11:36.840
There are some speech-y speeches, aren't there?

272
00:11:36.899 --> 00:11:39.179
The marshal's just a stupid villain.

273
00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:39.960
You know?

274
00:11:40.620 --> 00:11:42.539
No, I think actually, this is the thing.

275
00:11:42.600 --> 00:11:45.659
You look at the adults, the colonialists and the people coming

276
00:11:45.659 --> 00:11:49.440
back and the political people on television at the time.

277
00:11:49.500 --> 00:11:53.220
The Marshall Ring doesn't stand out as any different. especially

278
00:11:53.220 --> 00:11:54.840
crazy compared to kung fu.

279
00:11:54.899 --> 00:11:57.600
It's just very narrow and really and really driven and really

280
00:11:57.600 --> 00:11:58.980
believing in his own speed.

281
00:11:59.039 --> 00:12:00.000
Look at the ones we've got now.

282
00:12:00.059 --> 00:12:03.179
I actually think the politics is the really successful part of the

283
00:12:03.179 --> 00:12:03.419
story.

284
00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:06.299
I possibly argue the only successful part of this.

285
00:12:06.360 --> 00:12:08.580
Well, I don't know why you don't give that to Mac Hulk to do.

286
00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:09.419
Do you know what they're like?

287
00:12:09.419 --> 00:12:11.460
Mac Hulk was kind of squandered on the sea devils.

288
00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:12.480
He created that.

289
00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:13.379
Sea devils is brilliant.

290
00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:15.120
It is brilliant. my favourite of the season.

291
00:12:15.179 --> 00:12:15.899
I really like it.

292
00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:17.460
It's really strong action adventure.

293
00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:21.539
But the politics that we had in the Sileurians as thin as it was

294
00:12:21.539 --> 00:12:24.600
there, is nearly absent from the sea devils.

295
00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:28.860
But the politics, like, colony in space is so good.

296
00:12:28.980 --> 00:12:30.059
Do you know what I mean?

297
00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:33.000
And it plays to hulk strengths.

298
00:12:33.059 --> 00:12:36.120
But here in the mutants, you've got these guys who create great

299
00:12:36.120 --> 00:12:36.960
spectacles.

300
00:12:37.019 --> 00:12:37.799
Do you know what I mean?

301
00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:40.200
And really memorable images and things in their writing.

302
00:12:40.259 --> 00:12:43.799
But their characters are really one nose, I think.

303
00:12:43.860 --> 00:12:47.580
Just think about colony in space, and you have ash, and you have

304
00:12:47.580 --> 00:12:51.480
Winton, and you have Mary and the Leasons and Caldwell, who are

305
00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:54.240
all really interesting nuanced characters.

306
00:12:54.299 --> 00:12:57.600
And here you've got like the Marshall and Stubbs and Cotton and

307
00:12:57.600 --> 00:13:01.139
Sondergard, who are all kind of archetypes, you know, and they're

308
00:13:01.139 --> 00:13:01.919
not unwatchable.

309
00:13:01.980 --> 00:13:05.700
The performances aren't terrible, you know, except one exception.

310
00:13:05.820 --> 00:13:07.980
And I feel really bad about that.

311
00:13:08.039 --> 00:13:12.360
But the characters are much less nuanced and much less

312
00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:12.840
interesting.

313
00:13:12.899 --> 00:13:17.279
And so I came into this story expecting it would be this year's

314
00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:20.639
colony in space and expecting really to like it, but I actually

315
00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:23.820
found it a bit tiresome.

316
00:13:23.879 --> 00:13:26.220
You see, I see that coming.

317
00:13:26.340 --> 00:13:26.940
I know.

318
00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:29.639
But I think the archetypal nature of the characters actually

319
00:13:29.639 --> 00:13:30.600
serves the story well.

320
00:13:30.840 --> 00:13:31.500
I agree too.

321
00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:35.519
We're in a period of time where the empire is stagnating and so

322
00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:38.100
it's humanity.

323
00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:38.700
It's gone.

324
00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:41.039
But it means humanity is stagnating as well.

325
00:13:41.100 --> 00:13:44.820
The Marshal is simple-minded because he is afraid to use his

326
00:13:44.820 --> 00:13:45.240
mind.

327
00:13:45.299 --> 00:13:48.720
If we look at Sondergard, Sondergard came to the planet with

328
00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:51.120
certain convictions, which have been disproven.

329
00:13:51.179 --> 00:13:54.600
And so he has accepted new ideas.

330
00:13:54.659 --> 00:13:59.039
And as such, at one point, he's actually ready, ready to die, you

331
00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:01.740
know, not because he wants to die, but because he's like, well, you

332
00:14:01.740 --> 00:14:03.000
know, I've lived my life.

333
00:14:03.059 --> 00:14:05.759
The martial is terrified.

334
00:14:05.820 --> 00:14:06.360
Yes.

335
00:14:06.360 --> 00:14:10.440
The Martian is terrified of change because right now he is in

336
00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:10.860
command.

337
00:14:10.919 --> 00:14:13.620
Trenchard in the sea devils.

338
00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:16.379
You know, he was removed from his colony and now is running a

339
00:14:16.379 --> 00:14:16.620
prison.

340
00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:17.879
And he's a little bit bitter about that.

341
00:14:17.940 --> 00:14:23.519
But what Trenchard does is he wants to go back to how he was, and

342
00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:26.460
like you were describing in the novelisation, Nathan, he pictures

343
00:14:26.460 --> 00:14:28.379
himself as the great white hero.

344
00:14:28.500 --> 00:14:32.399
He's so much more interesting a character than the Marshall.

345
00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:37.440
Because the marshal hasn't had that power taken away from him, he

346
00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:40.440
will do anything to prevent that power being taken away from him.

347
00:14:40.500 --> 00:14:42.059
That does make him single-minded.

348
00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:44.940
Yeah, he's an unsympathetic colonel blimp, and it's worth looking

349
00:14:44.940 --> 00:14:48.720
at the military antecedents of the marshal to see that he's

350
00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:49.679
actually quite well-rounded.

351
00:14:49.980 --> 00:14:54.360
On the other, again, you know, like you talk about, you talk about

352
00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:57.899
Professor Sondegard, you know, offering to die, but he does it in

353
00:14:57.899 --> 00:15:02.700
the most tiresome programmatic scene possible where it's no, no

354
00:15:02.700 --> 00:15:04.080
you go on, leave me.

355
00:15:04.139 --> 00:15:04.980
Do you know what I mean?

356
00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:07.799
Like it's, it's, yeah, but could you imagine any other character

357
00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:08.700
in the story doing that?

358
00:15:08.820 --> 00:15:12.120
No, I know, but I just don't need to ever see that scene on

359
00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:13.559
television again, you know.

360
00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:15.480
And I think I think that that's it.

361
00:15:15.539 --> 00:15:20.340
I think he feels the story with stock characters and fairly stock

362
00:15:20.340 --> 00:15:21.659
situations.

363
00:15:21.720 --> 00:15:25.019
And so it's less entertaining than it really should be.

364
00:15:25.139 --> 00:15:25.799
I agree.

365
00:15:25.860 --> 00:15:26.159
I agree.

366
00:15:26.220 --> 00:15:29.519
The only 2 that don't really work in cotton and stops.

367
00:15:29.580 --> 00:15:32.100
See, I like both of those characters.

368
00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:33.659
I like to concept.

369
00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:38.100
Oh, I just think the idea of a Rosencrantz and Guildenstern should

370
00:15:38.100 --> 00:15:42.419
work so well, but they're really just been trained on ice cubes.

371
00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:45.059
There's nothing Yeah, I mean, Christopher Cole. to them.

372
00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:47.519
Christopher Cole is he's a reliable actor.

373
00:15:47.580 --> 00:15:52.379
You know, we've seen him already in Seeds of Death, but he's not

374
00:15:52.379 --> 00:15:54.240
he's not really good with the comedy in this.

375
00:15:54.299 --> 00:15:57.000
And of course, Rick James is pretty.

376
00:15:57.059 --> 00:16:01.019
He is very pretty and he's got a lovely voice.

377
00:16:01.080 --> 00:16:04.440
He's got a lovely morpheic voice, you know.

378
00:16:04.500 --> 00:16:06.840
It just doesn't have any rhythms that standard English speakers.

379
00:16:06.899 --> 00:16:08.580
Yeah, he's great.

380
00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:12.059
His intonation's the West African, that's all, which is why his

381
00:16:12.059 --> 00:16:13.559
speech patterns sound kind of jarring.

382
00:16:13.620 --> 00:16:15.120
I had one else there.

383
00:16:15.179 --> 00:16:16.139
I had wanted that.

384
00:16:16.139 --> 00:16:17.700
I don't think he's a bad...

385
00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:21.659
I had wanted that to be my conclusion, but I think it's really

386
00:16:21.659 --> 00:16:22.440
still.

387
00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:23.580
You actually really flat.

388
00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:26.279
Oh, no, I don't know how much of it. is actually a language

389
00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:26.639
thing.

390
00:16:26.700 --> 00:16:28.620
I don't know that he's necessarily any worse than anybody else.

391
00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:30.779
I mean, I don't think it's just the accent because that's what I

392
00:16:30.779 --> 00:16:31.500
wanted it to be.

393
00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:35.700
I wanted to find Rick James's performance acceptable. it really

394
00:16:35.700 --> 00:16:36.179
isn't.

395
00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:38.759
And there's that terrible, terrible moment, the cliffhanger to

396
00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:42.539
episode 5 where essentially there's no visual evidence of any

397
00:16:42.539 --> 00:16:43.259
danger at all.

398
00:16:43.379 --> 00:16:48.000
All we get is there in a room and Rick James tells them it's very

399
00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:51.659
dangerous and we'll all be done for and then crash bang into the

400
00:16:51.659 --> 00:16:51.960
credits.

401
00:16:52.019 --> 00:16:56.460
So it's, you know, he can't, in my opinion, he does get, he does

402
00:16:56.460 --> 00:17:00.299
get one good scene where he rises well to the material and that's

403
00:17:00.299 --> 00:17:01.080
when Stubbs was killed.

404
00:17:01.139 --> 00:17:02.100
Yeah.

405
00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:02.639
Yeah.

406
00:17:02.700 --> 00:17:07.140
You know, I think his reaction to Stubbs' death is really, really

407
00:17:07.140 --> 00:17:07.380
good.

408
00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:09.720
Perhaps because, you know, he has been underplaying it the whole

409
00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:12.119
time, so he underplays that scene as well, but that scene in

410
00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:16.980
isolation, he seems genuinely affected by his mate's death.

411
00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:19.259
I thought he was a bit upset by the death of Stubbs, actually

412
00:17:19.259 --> 00:17:23.099
because he is the sympathetic working class character.

413
00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:26.099
I mean, you know, Joe flirts with it when they're locked up and

414
00:17:26.099 --> 00:17:28.200
then the doctor knocks him out and Joe's like, oh, what did you do

415
00:17:28.200 --> 00:17:28.559
that for?

416
00:17:28.740 --> 00:17:35.579
A dozen burly, unfooted sailors, hefty sire, remorse.

417
00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:39.720
Look, it's interesting you mentioned Katie just there, Brendan

418
00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:42.720
because really, I don't see that Rick James's character is doing

419
00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:45.779
anything but playing up to the scene in exactly the same way that

420
00:17:45.779 --> 00:17:49.019
Katie does in pretty much every scene she's given.

421
00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:52.079
It's funny how when you look at Tet Woods commentary and the about

422
00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:55.259
time things and he does go on about her batting her eyelids and

423
00:17:55.259 --> 00:17:59.579
that Melanie Griffith effed up baby voice that she uses, which I

424
00:17:59.579 --> 00:18:00.480
think is a little harsh.

425
00:18:00.539 --> 00:18:04.380
But she certainly does play up to a preconceived role of what a

426
00:18:04.380 --> 00:18:07.680
girl companion is supposed to be, which is kind of...

427
00:18:07.740 --> 00:18:10.619
Did we mention acting tropes this season?

428
00:18:10.740 --> 00:18:12.960
We haven't used those at all.

429
00:18:13.019 --> 00:18:13.680
Acting.

430
00:18:13.740 --> 00:18:14.940
We haven't mentioned acting, really.

431
00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:16.440
Tropes.

432
00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:20.880
I will introduce a new trope to you later in this later in this

433
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:21.539
very episode.

434
00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:23.099
So excited already.

435
00:18:23.099 --> 00:18:23.880
Stay tuned.

436
00:18:23.940 --> 00:18:27.180
Yeah, but I mean, it's really just playing the character up to the

437
00:18:27.180 --> 00:18:30.599
scene in a way that there's a kind of, you know, very sort of

438
00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:34.440
theatrical way of playing it, not so much a television way when

439
00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:37.619
you've got to underplay because the camera's so intimate or you've

440
00:18:37.619 --> 00:18:40.019
got to diminish your work by a 3rd to 2 thirds.

441
00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:44.160
Heartmolt used to say that to the people he liked on set, his

442
00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:45.299
underplay underplay.

443
00:18:45.420 --> 00:18:49.140
Keep it all in your eyes because that's really all the audience is

444
00:18:49.140 --> 00:18:49.380
seeing.

445
00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:50.880
Don't bother doing anything else.

446
00:18:50.940 --> 00:18:53.579
But then he also didn't Hartnell ever told him, it's put your

447
00:18:53.579 --> 00:18:55.799
fingers up because, you know, that's what everyone else is going

448
00:18:55.799 --> 00:18:56.339
to see as well.

449
00:18:56.400 --> 00:18:59.220
Take up the whole screen, much as you can.

450
00:18:59.339 --> 00:19:03.779
But we does his little tricks as well. rub the back of his neck.

451
00:19:03.779 --> 00:19:08.400
Oh, yeah, he's got his he's got his... his twerks, I believe.

452
00:19:08.460 --> 00:19:09.779
Twerks.

453
00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:12.960
You haven't said anything to really say this is a bad story.

454
00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:15.059
Well, I think I have.

455
00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:16.740
Yeah, but that's not unusual.

456
00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:20.160
I mean, just... to Brendan Rinardo.

457
00:19:20.279 --> 00:19:23.759
I don't neither of you have actually really said why this is so

458
00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:23.880
funny.

459
00:19:23.940 --> 00:19:25.019
I thought you liked it, Brendan.

460
00:19:25.079 --> 00:19:26.400
I don't you know, I don't mind it.

461
00:19:26.460 --> 00:19:29.099
But I still I still don't think it's very good.

462
00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:32.160
Oh, I think that's wonderful. symbolism and great.

463
00:19:32.220 --> 00:19:34.079
Sorry, you know, Barry Letts actually gave...

464
00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:34.859
It's got great commentary.

465
00:19:34.920 --> 00:19:36.359
It's got a great concept.

466
00:19:36.420 --> 00:19:39.420
It's high concept, which I believe is a term that Nathan has

467
00:19:39.420 --> 00:19:42.779
thrown our way before, and I think this is really worthy of that.

468
00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:46.980
You know that let's actually pitched this story, the Salonians and

469
00:19:46.980 --> 00:19:51.539
the 500 segment quartered to a 2000 rotation.

470
00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:55.079
It's all part of his Buddhist trip to Jerry Davis in 66.

471
00:19:55.259 --> 00:19:59.279
And Jerry rejected it saying, oh, that's too intellectual for a

472
00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:02.519
Doctor Who audience, which kind of tells you a lot about the Jerry

473
00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:03.839
Davis era, doesn't it?

474
00:20:03.900 --> 00:20:05.400
Yeah, he's...

475
00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:08.220
And I really like, I really like that Lets has these.

476
00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:11.460
Okay, you may call it weekend Buddhists, and there were a lot of

477
00:20:11.460 --> 00:20:13.619
them around in England in the 1970s.

478
00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:16.740
A lot of people who are getting into TM or transcendental

479
00:20:16.740 --> 00:20:20.759
meditation and growing among beans and watching the good life.

480
00:20:20.819 --> 00:20:24.240
A lot of people do, that sort of thing in the early 70s in not

481
00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:24.900
just in Britain.

482
00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:28.859
I think that's a really, I think that is a really strong aspect of

483
00:20:28.859 --> 00:20:34.079
the story, and that is that the cyclical thing.

484
00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:34.859
I love that.

485
00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:37.559
You know, the cave scenes, just to throw my bit in.

486
00:20:37.619 --> 00:20:39.299
Really feel like William Blake.

487
00:20:40.380 --> 00:20:44.279
When he went absolutely cray-cray with his watercolours box

488
00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:46.859
because he did have episodes where he went quite mad and ran

489
00:20:46.859 --> 00:20:50.579
around naked and, you know, upset his wife.

490
00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:51.839
It is Mardi Gras weekend.

491
00:20:51.900 --> 00:20:52.859
Yeah, I know.

492
00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:54.960
But it's perfect, perfect one for Mardi Gras.

493
00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:56.640
I think it's a really beautiful story with some lovely

494
00:20:56.640 --> 00:20:57.420
symbolisms.

495
00:20:57.480 --> 00:21:00.180
And I actually really love Garo Kagan as Kai.

496
00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:00.900
I think he makes it.

497
00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:04.500
And if you're talking about intimacy and sympathy. between Joe

498
00:21:04.500 --> 00:21:06.059
Grant and the male lead.

499
00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:08.460
I think you've got a much more convincing one here than you do at

500
00:21:08.460 --> 00:21:09.420
any other time in this series.

501
00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:13.559
Do you know, when I was writing up my notes for the Paladon one

502
00:21:13.559 --> 00:21:17.279
because I wanted to try and work out which story, she has an

503
00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:20.279
interplanetary romance, because, you know, I've heard the joke

504
00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:23.400
before that Joe cops off, you know, every time she goes to another

505
00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:23.880
planet.

506
00:21:23.940 --> 00:21:26.700
She's the William Shatner of Doctor Who.

507
00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:29.579
But I couldn't see anything between her and Kai.

508
00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:34.140
No, I mean, there seems to be there's a very strong platonic thing

509
00:21:34.140 --> 00:21:34.440
with them.

510
00:21:34.500 --> 00:21:36.240
I don't think it's anything romantic.

511
00:21:36.299 --> 00:21:38.039
Yeah, I don't know.

512
00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:40.859
I couldn't say, you know, she doesn't take a big push, though.

513
00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:46.380
No, but there is very much a there's a mutual respect between them

514
00:21:46.380 --> 00:21:48.599
and a mutual understanding between them.

515
00:21:48.660 --> 00:21:52.740
I think that's actually Dashes into that into that porter cube

516
00:21:52.740 --> 00:21:54.359
with alacrity, doesn't she?

517
00:21:54.420 --> 00:21:55.980
Well, doesn't she get dragged in?

518
00:21:56.039 --> 00:21:58.079
Oh, that's what she does.

519
00:21:58.079 --> 00:21:59.400
Oh, she dressed quite casually.

520
00:21:59.460 --> 00:22:00.960
She follows him.

521
00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:03.000
She wearing a lovely outfit in this story, by the way.

522
00:22:03.059 --> 00:22:03.779
Can I just say?

523
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:04.680
It's really awesome.

524
00:22:04.740 --> 00:22:06.599
So is this the yellow boots one or is that where?

525
00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:07.500
No, no, that's coming up.

526
00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:08.700
That's, yeah, that's next.

527
00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:09.839
Yellow boots, yellow knickers.

528
00:22:09.900 --> 00:22:12.779
No, this is a sort of weird sort of brown suit thing.

529
00:22:12.839 --> 00:22:14.640
It's very tiny because she's lovely.

530
00:22:14.700 --> 00:22:17.940
No, she's following him because he...

531
00:22:17.940 --> 00:22:23.460
She's following him because the box opens as he goes past.

532
00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:27.359
So, yeah, we haven't really left... talked about the box.

533
00:22:27.420 --> 00:22:30.720
So let's, the doctor has been given a box by the time, Lords.

534
00:22:30.779 --> 00:22:32.819
It looks like a kind of crummy football.

535
00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:36.480
Looks like something children of the only 1970s used to put

536
00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:37.740
coloured shapes into.

537
00:22:37.740 --> 00:22:38.400
Really?

538
00:22:39.359 --> 00:22:40.140
I remember that.

539
00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:42.119
It's like a stealth version.

540
00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:45.660
A Borg stealth version of that blue...

541
00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:46.619
Blue and red.

542
00:22:46.619 --> 00:22:48.660
That was very cool. red and blue with yellow shapes.

543
00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:49.619
Yes, exactly.

544
00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:52.680
Yeah, so it's the most irritating toil, though it made a very good

545
00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:54.839
Death Star spaceship thing later. on.

546
00:22:54.900 --> 00:22:57.000
Gosh. want one of those.

547
00:22:57.359 --> 00:22:59.460
They still make them, did they?

548
00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:00.240
I think they do actually.

549
00:23:00.299 --> 00:23:02.759
Shots on eBay for the price of a new car.

550
00:23:02.819 --> 00:23:03.599
Yeah probably.

551
00:23:03.660 --> 00:23:08.279
So this is, the time loads are really not very competent here.

552
00:23:08.339 --> 00:23:11.039
Sand for comments on this, but pretty much anyone who's ever

553
00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:15.779
watched the story knows that the box appears, you know, in the

554
00:23:15.779 --> 00:23:19.140
doctor's laboratory, Joe and the doctor head off to another planet

555
00:23:19.140 --> 00:23:22.140
to deliver the box to someone, the doctor doesn't know who the box

556
00:23:22.140 --> 00:23:22.680
is for.

557
00:23:22.740 --> 00:23:26.579
The box opens when Kai goes past, which is why Joe goes

558
00:23:26.579 --> 00:23:27.839
chasing...

559
00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:29.220
Yeah, that's her excuse.

560
00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:34.799
The box opens and it's got tablets in it that Kai can't read and

561
00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:35.880
he doesn't understand.

562
00:23:36.539 --> 00:23:42.599
Then John Hollis nearby is wrote in to do the translation about

563
00:23:42.599 --> 00:23:42.900
it.

564
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:47.519
So it's not really the most direct or kind of efficient way of

565
00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:49.079
getting a message to someone, really.

566
00:23:49.140 --> 00:23:53.099
You would think my grit guy from Tara of the Autons could have

567
00:23:53.099 --> 00:23:55.740
just popped, you know, into existence in front of me.

568
00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:58.799
Why didn't they just, why didn't they just bloody materialise the

569
00:23:58.799 --> 00:23:59.880
thing in his lap to start?

570
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:00.119
with?

571
00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:01.140
Why does it have to?

572
00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:04.200
Why is it also, and why didn't Gandalf just send the bloody

573
00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:04.619
Eagles?

574
00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:08.160
Yes, why didn't the Eagles drop the ring into Mount Doom?

575
00:24:08.220 --> 00:24:09.480
That's crazy.

576
00:24:09.539 --> 00:24:13.559
I mean, no, or carry the, carry the, you know, took Frodo into

577
00:24:13.559 --> 00:24:14.220
Mountain Dew.

578
00:24:14.279 --> 00:24:15.180
Let me try that again.

579
00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:16.259
No, I haven't left Talk to Who?

580
00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:18.240
They could have dropped frog. can't even say it.

581
00:24:18.299 --> 00:24:22.380
Really, the ball should have been Ian McCellen in this story.

582
00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:27.059
He was around and he would have made it quite a nice little bit of

583
00:24:27.059 --> 00:24:30.960
tasty cottage pie out of Kai, I think, in his story in this one.

584
00:24:31.019 --> 00:24:32.460
Well, come 2012.

585
00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:37.200
The ball was Ian McCellen in Doctor Who and the Snowman.

586
00:24:37.259 --> 00:24:37.740
Yeah.

587
00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:42.000
At Christmas with the giant snow globe, voiced by Siri and

588
00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:42.539
Mackellum.

589
00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:43.200
Do we own him?

590
00:24:43.259 --> 00:24:45.480
Is the listener still with us, do you think?

591
00:24:45.539 --> 00:24:46.980
They've actually gone off too.

592
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:48.119
Wake up, dear.

593
00:24:48.180 --> 00:24:50.460
He'll disentangle all of this in post.

594
00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:51.059
Don't worry.

595
00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:54.480
Richard, coming back to something you were saying earlier, like

596
00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:55.680
why is this still a bad story?

597
00:24:55.740 --> 00:24:56.460
I've been thinking about.

598
00:24:56.519 --> 00:24:57.779
Well, it isn't.

599
00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:04.140
Well, that's a good story, which has been executed very poorly, in

600
00:25:04.140 --> 00:25:04.619
my opinion.

601
00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:07.259
You have, how is that, okay?

602
00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:07.920
You know what?

603
00:25:07.980 --> 00:25:09.299
You have a very strong guest, Carl.

604
00:25:09.359 --> 00:25:10.380
Paul Wits and Jones.

605
00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:11.700
You have George Prafter.

606
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:13.140
You have Jeffrey Palmer.

607
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:14.519
You have John...

608
00:25:14.579 --> 00:25:15.420
Yeah, George Bro.

609
00:25:15.420 --> 00:25:16.380
Lots of John Hollis.

610
00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:18.480
The bloke from the beginning of Monty Python.

611
00:25:18.539 --> 00:25:18.960
Yes.

612
00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:20.099
You had the It sky.

613
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:21.359
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

614
00:25:21.420 --> 00:25:23.759
For me, I think the big problem is.

615
00:25:23.819 --> 00:25:26.039
And I know we've kind of glossed over this, but I've been thinking

616
00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:26.400
about it.

617
00:25:26.460 --> 00:25:29.220
And the big problem is stops and cotton.

618
00:25:29.339 --> 00:25:31.319
Rosencrantz and Gildens.

619
00:25:31.380 --> 00:25:35.099
Rosencrantz and Gildenstead, because they're our main audience

620
00:25:35.099 --> 00:25:37.380
identification figures with the world of skybase.

621
00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:37.799
Yeah.

622
00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:42.779
And then just not very interesting.

623
00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:45.059
They're not terribly sympathetic.

624
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:48.539
Like, you know, we just, we don't really care about them until one

625
00:25:48.539 --> 00:25:49.140
of them dies.

626
00:25:49.259 --> 00:25:53.099
And even then we kind of care because there's sort of there is an

627
00:25:53.099 --> 00:25:54.480
emotional reaction among the cars.

628
00:25:54.539 --> 00:25:55.799
Why do you think we don't care?

629
00:25:55.859 --> 00:25:59.460
I actually think it is the thing that I identified before?

630
00:25:59.579 --> 00:26:01.019
Is the characters are just types?

631
00:26:01.079 --> 00:26:02.940
of them are particularly interesting?

632
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:05.099
You know, so particularly sympathetic.

633
00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:06.660
So they, that's the thing.

634
00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:10.200
They need interesting performers. the martial, the martial works

635
00:26:10.200 --> 00:26:12.480
because he's giving a really interesting performance.

636
00:26:12.539 --> 00:26:13.559
I've just got one.

637
00:26:13.559 --> 00:26:14.819
But it is a real...

638
00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:16.079
Sorry, James Atcheson.

639
00:26:16.140 --> 00:26:19.380
It's his 1st go on this. we got there yet?

640
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:22.380
They're the best looking monsters to have appeared in Doctor Who

641
00:26:22.380 --> 00:26:23.220
almost so far.

642
00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:27.059
And I'm sorry I jumped in there quickly, but hey, it's a podcast.

643
00:26:27.180 --> 00:26:28.680
Look, it looks gorgeous.

644
00:26:28.680 --> 00:26:30.299
And it's great moments.

645
00:26:30.420 --> 00:26:31.019
You know what?

646
00:26:31.019 --> 00:26:31.799
Yeah, the design's good.

647
00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:35.579
I also liked that it nods to Solaris, which had just come out that

648
00:26:35.579 --> 00:26:39.720
year, you know, with the toss version.

649
00:26:39.779 --> 00:26:40.140
Yeah.

650
00:26:40.200 --> 00:26:42.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah. and the sky-based thing.

651
00:26:42.180 --> 00:26:45.359
I mean, it's about as much like Solaris says, you know, the

652
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:49.680
goodies is like the Brandenburg concerto whenever Graham gets on

653
00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:52.259
the computer organ, but I'm still, okay.

654
00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:53.460
I mean, we can go on for it forever.

655
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:55.799
I think maybe the listener needs to decide.

656
00:26:55.859 --> 00:26:59.400
I actually think it's my highlight of the season as what it's

657
00:26:59.400 --> 00:26:59.640
saying.

658
00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:01.980
But you mean us as a story.

659
00:27:02.099 --> 00:27:05.940
But what it's saying is not exactly a spectacular moral insight.

660
00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:06.839
Do you know what I mean?

661
00:27:06.900 --> 00:27:09.240
Like oppressing people and stealing all their stuff is wrong.

662
00:27:09.299 --> 00:27:09.960
It's bad.

663
00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:11.279
You know, like, it's not bad.

664
00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:12.119
And how we deal with it.

665
00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:15.960
And I look, anything that shows up the moral impunity of these

666
00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:17.160
characters is not a bad thing.

667
00:27:17.220 --> 00:27:18.599
Yeah, yeah.

668
00:27:18.660 --> 00:27:22.200
But I'm just, I think the moral thing is sort of really basic and

669
00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:25.019
I think the fact that the martial is sort of a moustache twirling

670
00:27:25.019 --> 00:27:27.839
villain, it makes it less interesting than it should be.

671
00:27:27.900 --> 00:27:31.380
I think Hertway's also most likeable in this story is to any of

672
00:27:31.380 --> 00:27:31.799
them this year.

673
00:27:31.859 --> 00:27:33.720
Well, again, it's really sympathetic.

674
00:27:33.779 --> 00:27:38.099
Again, it's per twee's new instinctive attraction to progressive

675
00:27:38.099 --> 00:27:41.039
causes. which we're starting to see all the time.

676
00:27:41.099 --> 00:27:43.019
I really like the doctor in this story.

677
00:27:43.079 --> 00:27:44.819
He's more like the doctor.

678
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:47.519
I've got to say, I didn't get a chance to say it last season, but

679
00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:51.119
it's actually taken now for me 2 years to accept him as the

680
00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:51.420
doctor.

681
00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:54.000
Yeah, I think I threw it somewhere out.

682
00:27:54.059 --> 00:27:56.700
He's the least doctor-ish doctor I've seen and I'm thinking later

683
00:27:56.700 --> 00:27:57.480
doctors as well.

684
00:27:57.539 --> 00:28:00.839
I actually have about as much trouble with him as I do with the

685
00:28:00.839 --> 00:28:02.880
other baker. as the doctor.

686
00:28:02.940 --> 00:28:05.099
Surprise maker, the other other baker.

687
00:28:05.160 --> 00:28:06.240
Yeah, I'm surprised at that.

688
00:28:06.299 --> 00:28:08.819
I certainly have great fondness for Colin now through his audio

689
00:28:08.819 --> 00:28:13.200
work, but I just, I think it's having heard Barry Letz's 2 audio

690
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:15.660
versions for Mr. Pertley in the 90s.

691
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:16.559
It's not quite the same thing.

692
00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:20.220
Can I say a word about George Prafter for a moment?

693
00:28:20.279 --> 00:28:20.940
Please do.

694
00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:22.259
Nice space.

695
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:23.099
Nice lab.

696
00:28:23.160 --> 00:28:25.259
Yeah, yeah, he's got a really nice lab.

697
00:28:25.319 --> 00:28:28.380
He's probably for me the most interesting character in the whole

698
00:28:28.380 --> 00:28:28.559
thing.

699
00:28:28.619 --> 00:28:30.599
It's very sympathetic in everything he does, isn't he?

700
00:28:30.660 --> 00:28:31.559
He pictures it, really.

701
00:28:31.619 --> 00:28:34.799
It's interesting because he is built up as being a sympathetic

702
00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:38.700
character and the doctor starts to change his thinking, oh, maybe

703
00:28:38.700 --> 00:28:40.799
we shouldn't turn the planet inside out and kill everyone.

704
00:28:40.859 --> 00:28:41.579
Yeah.

705
00:28:41.640 --> 00:28:43.920
And then he just goes ahead and tries to do it anyway.

706
00:28:43.980 --> 00:28:44.579
Anyway.

707
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:48.359
You know, in a way, he's more evil than the marshal because he's

708
00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:51.240
been introduced as a character who does have a conscience and does

709
00:28:51.240 --> 00:28:52.500
think about the effect on other people.

710
00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:55.319
But he's going to bloody do this thing anyway because he just

711
00:28:55.319 --> 00:28:56.400
doesn't care.

712
00:28:56.460 --> 00:29:00.059
And that, I think, is very effective in the doctor's

713
00:29:00.059 --> 00:29:01.740
disappointment in him.

714
00:29:01.740 --> 00:29:03.599
It's very...

715
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:05.700
The martial...

716
00:29:05.759 --> 00:29:07.740
Is that true though?

717
00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:11.460
The marshal kind of railroads him into doing it.

718
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:13.619
Yeah, but he doesn't really object does he?

719
00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:18.359
But and then in episode, like in front of the Inquisitor or

720
00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:20.039
whoever it is who arrives at the very end.

721
00:29:20.099 --> 00:29:21.420
Who looks like a timelord?

722
00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:24.839
Yeah, he arrives at the end and he's never in it again, but I kept

723
00:29:24.839 --> 00:29:28.740
thinking, surely he played a time lord at some point, but he

724
00:29:28.740 --> 00:29:32.339
doesn't, I think, George Pravter's character, who's called Jager, I

725
00:29:32.339 --> 00:29:35.279
think, testifies against him or is kind of horrified by the

726
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:35.880
martials.

727
00:29:35.940 --> 00:29:37.259
Yeah, he plays Frederick Yeager.

728
00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:39.720
See, he does break Roger, I was thinking.

729
00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:40.920
With that unfortunate accent.

730
00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:43.859
And unfortunately, that unfortunate line, I was just following

731
00:29:43.859 --> 00:29:44.819
authors.

732
00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:46.500
Well, it is that...

733
00:29:46.559 --> 00:29:48.000
You know, again, I think...

734
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:52.440
I just don't think any of the characters rise to the level of

735
00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:57.599
complexity where, you know, you could say anything so definitive

736
00:29:57.599 --> 00:29:59.759
about what Jaeger's like as a person.

737
00:29:59.819 --> 00:30:03.420
I think he's just kind of pushed around by whatever the plot

738
00:30:03.420 --> 00:30:03.960
needs.

739
00:30:04.019 --> 00:30:05.579
I think he's the most realistic, therefore.

740
00:30:05.640 --> 00:30:06.240
Yeah.

741
00:30:06.299 --> 00:30:09.180
For me, this could have actually been the best story of the season

742
00:30:09.180 --> 00:30:10.859
if more care had been taken with it.

743
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:13.259
I think it's a great shame.

744
00:30:13.319 --> 00:30:16.200
I think it's a great improvement for the Bristol boys over clause

745
00:30:16.200 --> 00:30:16.680
of access.

746
00:30:16.740 --> 00:30:19.079
No, because I think it's their fault that it's crappy.

747
00:30:19.140 --> 00:30:19.920
Oh, okay.

748
00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:21.480
I think it's the direction.

749
00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:22.259
Right.

750
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:22.859
Yeah, no, no.

751
00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:25.740
I think it's because they've written a whole heap of like of stock

752
00:30:25.740 --> 00:30:28.259
programmatic characters who aren't very interesting.

753
00:30:28.859 --> 00:30:31.920
I think it's up to the listener to decide.

754
00:30:31.980 --> 00:30:33.180
Yes, absolutely.

755
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:35.160
With an exciting me to decide.

756
00:30:35.279 --> 00:30:38.819
We haven't talked about, we haven't talked about Tristram Carey's

757
00:30:38.819 --> 00:30:41.880
last score for the program, and I've got to say, it's really kind

758
00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:44.819
of sad that he's gone from such beautiful levels with the Daleks

759
00:30:44.819 --> 00:30:48.779
and master plan he did as well, didn't he?

760
00:30:48.900 --> 00:30:51.480
and how now sophisticated and elegant they were.

761
00:30:51.539 --> 00:30:52.200
And then there's this one.

762
00:30:52.259 --> 00:30:54.359
I'm just going, well, I'm sitting here thinking, what, who's

763
00:30:54.359 --> 00:30:55.079
opened the fridge?

764
00:30:55.140 --> 00:30:57.720
Yeah, really glaring?

765
00:30:57.779 --> 00:30:58.319
Like scorching?

766
00:30:58.440 --> 00:31:00.480
What we're doing in 1972, isn't it?

767
00:31:00.539 --> 00:31:03.960
I know he had very little time and he was a last minute edition

768
00:31:04.440 --> 00:31:09.180
whoever else they had on wasn't available and Carrie, I think by

769
00:31:09.180 --> 00:31:11.339
that time was, you know, moving to Australia and doing other

770
00:31:11.339 --> 00:31:13.259
things and lost a lot of money with his lab.

771
00:31:13.319 --> 00:31:16.259
He stayed of the art cutting edge, of course, simply because of

772
00:31:16.259 --> 00:31:20.220
machines like the Delaware. were cutting him out so quickly. tech

773
00:31:20.220 --> 00:31:21.660
was moving so fast.

774
00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:26.460
And poor old Carrie was just kind of doing everything, quick

775
00:31:26.460 --> 00:31:28.500
little jobs where he could from what I know.

776
00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:31.920
But yeah, I really, this is really irritating story.

777
00:31:31.980 --> 00:31:33.660
In a year of interesting scores.

778
00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:35.099
It is disappointing.

779
00:31:35.160 --> 00:31:37.140
But, um, that's a harsh word.

780
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:40.859
Well, it's disappointing because as you say, you know, he's been

781
00:31:40.859 --> 00:31:42.960
so good in the past and would continue to be good.

782
00:31:43.019 --> 00:31:45.420
That's the Trump card in ending any relationship, isn't it?

783
00:31:45.539 --> 00:31:46.859
you were so good in the past.

784
00:31:46.920 --> 00:31:47.880
Disappointing.

785
00:31:49.259 --> 00:31:54.779
But as you mentioned earlier, Richard, 1st story of James

786
00:31:54.779 --> 00:31:55.440
Atchison.

787
00:31:55.500 --> 00:31:56.279
Yeah.

788
00:31:56.279 --> 00:32:00.720
Yeah, and, you know, I really like the mutt costumes.

789
00:32:00.779 --> 00:32:04.319
I think there are, there are really like, they're pretty much a

790
00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:05.759
really effective update of the zombie.

791
00:32:05.819 --> 00:32:07.859
I was actually thinking that as well.

792
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:10.259
They're like sort of scary ants made of leather instead of

793
00:32:10.259 --> 00:32:11.039
fibreglass.

794
00:32:11.099 --> 00:32:15.660
Which means they move a bit more naturally as naturally as one can

795
00:32:15.660 --> 00:32:16.500
in a giant ankle.

796
00:32:16.619 --> 00:32:17.819
Beautiful, too, which helps.

797
00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:19.380
Yes, I just love them.

798
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:22.680
But they're also, like, they're scary looking, but they're

799
00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:25.740
sympathetic and they have a lot of sort of sad eyes.

800
00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:28.619
I mean, they look like sort of sea devil eyes, you know, it's the

801
00:32:28.619 --> 00:32:29.220
same kind of eyes.

802
00:32:29.339 --> 00:32:31.079
You see them again cropping up on San.

803
00:32:31.140 --> 00:32:32.519
Yes, yes, yes.

804
00:32:32.579 --> 00:32:35.160
I also really like the in brain of Morbius.

805
00:32:35.160 --> 00:32:35.940
Yeah, yeah.

806
00:32:36.059 --> 00:32:36.420
Yeah, yeah.

807
00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:38.880
I also really like the sky base uniforms.

808
00:32:38.940 --> 00:32:40.740
The kinky devil.

809
00:32:40.799 --> 00:32:43.559
They actually do look a bit like Berner Cribbons in vinyl, don't

810
00:32:43.559 --> 00:32:43.680
they?

811
00:32:43.740 --> 00:32:44.460
Yes, they do.

812
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:50.279
So just before we head right into the end of the season, Rod

813
00:32:50.279 --> 00:32:54.000
didn't have much to say about this story, but I think my favourite

814
00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:55.019
comment that he did make.

815
00:32:55.079 --> 00:33:00.240
I think it's the Cliffhanger to episode four, he described as the

816
00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:03.359
best depressurising airlock scene ever.

817
00:33:03.599 --> 00:33:05.940
Gosh, it's terrible, isn't it?

818
00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:07.559
Is he a Blake 7 fan?

819
00:33:07.740 --> 00:33:13.079
The next episode, there's a gaping CSO hole in the wall and the

820
00:33:13.079 --> 00:33:16.140
marshal just walks out of the room while everyone else is sort of

821
00:33:16.140 --> 00:33:18.299
trying not to be sat down. ridiculous.

822
00:33:18.359 --> 00:33:18.960
Awful.

823
00:33:19.019 --> 00:33:19.500
Yeah.

824
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:27.420
Right, well, we've just taken a little gap between now and now.

825
00:33:27.539 --> 00:33:30.180
Is that why you're naked except for a swaddling cloth?

826
00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:33.240
Yes, well, I've just been played by the baby from next door.

827
00:33:33.299 --> 00:33:36.599
This is, of course, the time doesn't stuff. that different from

828
00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:40.079
the baby from the story. you still impressively youthful.

829
00:33:40.380 --> 00:33:43.500
Oh, you're just saying that because they don't have any hair.

830
00:33:43.559 --> 00:33:45.720
Nathan, I think this was one of yours again.

831
00:33:45.779 --> 00:33:47.400
Well, this is just terrible, isn't it?

832
00:33:47.700 --> 00:33:50.640
I'm going to start by saying, God, I love this story.

833
00:33:50.700 --> 00:33:51.599
Thank you.

834
00:33:51.660 --> 00:33:52.559
But it is terrible.

835
00:33:52.619 --> 00:33:55.559
No, it's Robert Sloman and the thing that nobody gets with this

836
00:33:55.559 --> 00:33:58.559
story, dear listener, is that it's written as a comedy.

837
00:33:58.619 --> 00:34:01.200
Oh, that's amazing.

838
00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:01.859
It's funny though.

839
00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:04.500
Of course it's 1972 and it's a feminist comedy.

840
00:34:04.619 --> 00:34:07.259
And it's one of the few ones that actually has a lovely little

841
00:34:07.259 --> 00:34:10.800
sparring thing between an overtly queer character and a dominant

842
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:11.760
feminine character.

843
00:34:11.820 --> 00:34:13.500
And apparently that's not a good thing to be.

844
00:34:13.559 --> 00:34:16.619
No, I think it's great because people don't like the politics of

845
00:34:16.619 --> 00:34:16.800
it.

846
00:34:16.860 --> 00:34:18.719
It's absolutely not that.

847
00:34:18.780 --> 00:34:20.639
It's just really not very good.

848
00:34:21.059 --> 00:34:26.400
It's this weird tension of we have a plot which is essentially

849
00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:31.559
bobbins and just quite terrible, but everyone's having a really

850
00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:34.079
great time, except reportedly for pert week.

851
00:34:34.139 --> 00:34:36.119
And us and the people watching.

852
00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:38.460
No, no, no, I have an amazing time watching this.

853
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:44.400
But oddly, the thing pert we really didn't like was conceptual

854
00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:45.420
science fiction.

855
00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:48.000
He liked stories to be crowned in reality.

856
00:34:48.059 --> 00:34:50.460
It's like, well, you're on the wrong show.

857
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:51.119
What he talking about?

858
00:34:51.179 --> 00:34:52.920
It's got Ingrid Pitt.

859
00:34:53.340 --> 00:34:58.320
You know, a flouncy, trouncy, bouncy, busty outfit.

860
00:34:58.380 --> 00:34:59.460
That's pretty real.

861
00:34:59.699 --> 00:35:05.579
So, but in a way, this actually works in Purpy's favour because he

862
00:35:05.579 --> 00:35:08.340
did complain to Terrence about the script and how he didn't think

863
00:35:08.340 --> 00:35:11.219
the script made any sense, but he also then said, you know, I will

864
00:35:11.219 --> 00:35:15.300
do it because my job is not to enjoy the scripts.

865
00:35:16.019 --> 00:35:19.079
And I will pass that on to the audience.

866
00:35:19.139 --> 00:35:24.119
He said, my job is to say the words with the best conviction I can

867
00:35:24.119 --> 00:35:24.539
manage.

868
00:35:24.599 --> 00:35:27.420
So even if I am not enjoying myself.

869
00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:28.860
You might want to add.

870
00:35:28.860 --> 00:35:33.059
Even if I am not enjoying myself, even if I don't believe what I'm

871
00:35:33.059 --> 00:35:34.920
saying, the children at home must believe it.

872
00:35:34.980 --> 00:35:37.199
Yeah, but can you hear Patrick Troughton's response to that?

873
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:39.659
Because you could just, or indeed, Lawrence and the VAs would just

874
00:35:39.659 --> 00:35:40.920
try acting more.

875
00:35:40.980 --> 00:35:43.920
You know, how about elevating that to the next level where you

876
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:45.900
actually experience and have some feeling for it?

877
00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:47.820
Don't just read the bloody lines with conviction.

878
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:48.599
Be somebody.

879
00:35:48.659 --> 00:35:51.480
We're not up to 3 doctors yet, but I bet we'll have a lot to say.

880
00:35:51.539 --> 00:35:57.239
I think that it really is evident in that scene in episode 2 where

881
00:35:57.239 --> 00:36:00.480
he's explaining who Kronos is to Dr. Ruth Ingram and Sergeant

882
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:05.639
Benton and that bird in a white rock and a farm attack. painted

883
00:36:05.639 --> 00:36:06.000
white.

884
00:36:06.059 --> 00:36:09.900
The thing is, he has to do all this sort of babble and he has this

885
00:36:09.900 --> 00:36:12.840
beautiful line which I'll come back to, which is along the lines

886
00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:16.739
of the Atlanteans believed in Kronos and thus brought him into

887
00:36:16.739 --> 00:36:19.260
existence and imprisoned him in the stool.

888
00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:22.619
It's very Buddhist, but apparently John just went, oh God, this is

889
00:36:22.619 --> 00:36:22.980
terrible.

890
00:36:23.039 --> 00:36:26.400
But in that scene, the doctor isn't speculating.

891
00:36:26.460 --> 00:36:28.860
The doctor is saying this really happened.

892
00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:31.440
The doctor is essentially saying magic happened, but he convinces

893
00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:32.280
me in that scene.

894
00:36:32.340 --> 00:36:33.840
But it's a Buddhist thing, isn't it?

895
00:36:33.900 --> 00:36:34.500
Interstitial time.

896
00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:37.019
It's actually a concept of Tibetan Buddhism.

897
00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:40.139
There is much more Buddhism in this than you think, and it is...

898
00:36:40.139 --> 00:36:43.139
I'll just pat my yeti while I'm just saying that, so to speak.

899
00:36:43.139 --> 00:36:44.519
You're disused, yes, yes.

900
00:36:44.579 --> 00:36:45.719
God, I need to shave my legs.

901
00:36:46.139 --> 00:36:49.679
Brendan's hugging the disused game as we speak.

902
00:36:49.739 --> 00:36:51.300
There'll be a photo to a company.

903
00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:53.579
There's a euphemism.

904
00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:59.039
So every year after Dick's and Let's take over, every year we get

905
00:36:59.039 --> 00:36:59.940
a 6 part season.

906
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:01.800
It does sound like a euphemism, doesn't it?

907
00:37:01.860 --> 00:37:03.119
It really isn't.

908
00:37:03.360 --> 00:37:06.119
There's a six-part season finale.

909
00:37:06.179 --> 00:37:10.860
It's by Letts and Sloman, essentially, although sometimes Letts is

910
00:37:10.860 --> 00:37:12.420
credited and sometimes he isn't.

911
00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:13.380
In fact, he's never credited.

912
00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:16.199
But it's a huge input from him.

913
00:37:16.260 --> 00:37:18.659
And there's always sort of spirituality in Buddhism.

914
00:37:18.780 --> 00:37:21.480
So last year in the demons we discovered for the 1st time that

915
00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:27.480
Doctor Who can say that an alien is responsible for some aspect of

916
00:37:27.480 --> 00:37:29.820
magic or human mythology or something like that.

917
00:37:29.880 --> 00:37:31.320
And we get that again this year.

918
00:37:31.380 --> 00:37:34.500
It's Kronos, who is a Titan in Greek mythology.

919
00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:36.480
There's a minotaur.

920
00:37:36.539 --> 00:37:39.420
There's all of these things which are caused by, you know, sort of

921
00:37:39.420 --> 00:37:40.619
strange alien names.

922
00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:43.139
Richard Dorkard's atheistic alien, do you think?

923
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:45.960
Do you think he's actually an Asyl?

924
00:37:46.019 --> 00:37:47.280
Is it?

925
00:37:47.280 --> 00:37:48.300
Richard Dorkos.

926
00:37:48.360 --> 00:37:48.960
I think he could be.

927
00:37:49.019 --> 00:37:50.579
I think I'll have to ask Lala Ward.

928
00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:51.840
She would know.

929
00:37:51.900 --> 00:37:52.500
Yeah, yeah.

930
00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:53.760
We should ring her up and leave.

931
00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:55.500
I think we might get a rather curt reply.

932
00:37:55.559 --> 00:37:57.960
She said at a convention she's married monsters in the past.

933
00:37:58.860 --> 00:38:03.840
So it's very similar and we'll get this sort of Buddhist sort of

934
00:38:03.840 --> 00:38:04.860
staff as well.

935
00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:06.900
If only there was a Buddhist we could know.

936
00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:09.420
We knew in Fandom, we could check with you, Luth and see if this

937
00:38:09.420 --> 00:38:09.960
is...

938
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:11.400
Well, I know a little bit about Buddhism.

939
00:38:11.400 --> 00:38:13.019
And and the...

940
00:38:13.019 --> 00:38:16.980
There is a hugely massively Buddhist moment, of course, which is

941
00:38:16.980 --> 00:38:18.599
the flower sermon in episode.

942
00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:24.420
Yeah, where Hertui tells the story of his blackest day and he goes

943
00:38:24.420 --> 00:38:27.719
and meets the hermit halfway up a mountain who we later discover

944
00:38:27.719 --> 00:38:31.500
Whoopi Campo, Rimposhe, and Queen Darius.

945
00:38:31.559 --> 00:38:33.659
King Dalius in this episode.

946
00:38:33.780 --> 00:38:34.739
It's the same actor.

947
00:38:35.579 --> 00:38:38.159
And, you know, it's the flower.

948
00:38:38.219 --> 00:38:39.300
Queen down, I think.

949
00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:43.500
We'll have to talk about that later because I've got lots of juicy

950
00:38:43.500 --> 00:38:46.260
things to say about Galileo, who I think is just fantastic.

951
00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:47.579
This is the highlight of this story.

952
00:38:48.420 --> 00:38:51.900
So there is sort of overtly Buddhist stuff.

953
00:38:51.960 --> 00:38:55.260
But the other thing that lets and Slyman do in the season finale

954
00:38:55.260 --> 00:38:57.420
every year is give us a fun unit romp.

955
00:38:57.480 --> 00:38:58.199
Do you know what I mean?

956
00:38:58.260 --> 00:39:01.440
And so that's why everyone remembers these things as being such

957
00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:01.920
fun.

958
00:39:01.980 --> 00:39:03.539
You know, the demons was fun.

959
00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:06.300
This is kind of fun.

960
00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:07.800
It is terrible, but it's kind of fun.

961
00:39:07.860 --> 00:39:11.820
The Green Death is the one that they get right, where it's

962
00:39:11.820 --> 00:39:14.880
actually a good story as well as being a fun unit romp.

963
00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:17.880
And then there's Planet of the Spiders where all the unit people

964
00:39:17.880 --> 00:39:20.519
are back and it's really not very good.

965
00:39:20.579 --> 00:39:24.420
So it is a pattern that they sort of set every year.

966
00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:30.719
And I think the 2 reasons why this story is so terrible are the

967
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:33.659
dialogue is shockingly bad all the way through.

968
00:39:33.719 --> 00:39:37.079
Like absolutely absurdly ridiculous.

969
00:39:37.139 --> 00:39:41.219
And it's all that Cretan jazz and the whole King Arthur bit and

970
00:39:41.219 --> 00:39:44.579
like simmer down, Stu.

971
00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:48.300
Everyone sort of speaks in this sort of absolutely fake appalling

972
00:39:48.300 --> 00:39:48.719
way.

973
00:39:48.780 --> 00:39:52.920
You know, the brigadier is suddenly a giant fool who can't really

974
00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:56.460
understand anything that's going on and doesn't believe all the

975
00:39:56.460 --> 00:39:57.840
other things that are going on.

976
00:39:57.900 --> 00:40:01.679
Dialogue is just painful to listen to, like really, really

977
00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:03.300
atrociously bad.

978
00:40:03.360 --> 00:40:05.760
Joe says groovy twice.

979
00:40:05.820 --> 00:40:06.960
Far too often.

980
00:40:07.019 --> 00:40:07.920
Twice.

981
00:40:07.980 --> 00:40:11.579
It feels like it, well, apparently the whole industrial universe

982
00:40:11.579 --> 00:40:12.420
is groovy.

983
00:40:12.840 --> 00:40:18.420
You see, I feel like the dialogue is actually really nicely

984
00:40:18.420 --> 00:40:19.260
quirky.

985
00:40:19.320 --> 00:40:21.179
We have the 2 scientific characters.

986
00:40:21.239 --> 00:40:25.019
We have Ruth and Stu, who, as well as being scientists. doubles.

987
00:40:25.079 --> 00:40:25.619
They are.

988
00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:26.940
Yeah, they are a comedy double.

989
00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:28.679
It's not a funny comedy.

990
00:40:28.679 --> 00:40:30.780
As well as being scientists.

991
00:40:30.840 --> 00:40:35.699
They have a pre-existing relationship as brother and sister.

992
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:38.760
You know, they banter with each other and they tease each other.

993
00:40:38.820 --> 00:40:43.139
And it's that it's that kind of familiar relationship that we

994
00:40:43.139 --> 00:40:44.159
don't see often.

995
00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:45.300
She's butcher his film.

996
00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:48.300
It's a perfect television...

997
00:40:48.360 --> 00:40:52.139
I do have something to say about her whole, the treatment of her

998
00:40:52.139 --> 00:40:54.780
as a feminist. is very interesting.

999
00:40:54.840 --> 00:40:58.980
It's, um, you know, it's the 1st time that Doctor Who is actively

1000
00:40:58.980 --> 00:41:03.539
doing feminism and doing women's lib and they actually call it by

1001
00:41:03.539 --> 00:41:06.539
name, God bless women's lib at all, but not all the same.

1002
00:41:06.599 --> 00:41:08.159
You know, it's incredibly awkward.

1003
00:41:08.219 --> 00:41:09.719
It's incredibly awkwardly done.

1004
00:41:09.780 --> 00:41:10.739
Roughly handled.

1005
00:41:10.800 --> 00:41:15.300
I think the cast do the best they can with the material they've

1006
00:41:15.300 --> 00:41:15.539
got.

1007
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:21.420
I think Delgado probably handles it best because he is sexist

1008
00:41:21.420 --> 00:41:21.960
towards her.

1009
00:41:22.019 --> 00:41:24.539
But when he apologises.

1010
00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:27.420
Delgado's master hasn't shown signs of sexism before.

1011
00:41:27.480 --> 00:41:31.320
He's courteous to a fault with everyone until he needs to kill

1012
00:41:31.320 --> 00:41:31.619
you.

1013
00:41:31.679 --> 00:41:37.199
And again, he shows actually no intent that he ever seems ready to

1014
00:41:37.199 --> 00:41:38.639
hurt Ruth.

1015
00:41:38.699 --> 00:41:41.820
And I don't think he ever intends to hurt Stuart either.

1016
00:41:41.880 --> 00:41:43.440
He just gets in the way, you know what I mean?

1017
00:41:43.500 --> 00:41:47.699
But I think one of the really questionable moments of Ruth's

1018
00:41:47.699 --> 00:41:52.739
status as a feminist, if you like, is when Stu is kind of gently

1019
00:41:52.739 --> 00:41:55.440
asking, oh, come on, you know, we should we should give it a try.

1020
00:41:55.500 --> 00:41:57.480
We're just as qualified, this, that, the other, this, that, the

1021
00:41:57.480 --> 00:41:57.659
other.

1022
00:41:57.719 --> 00:42:01.019
And her response is, don't bully me, Stu, or I'll burst into

1023
00:42:01.019 --> 00:42:01.440
tears.

1024
00:42:01.500 --> 00:42:04.800
But I actually think that that's actually, that was a line that I

1025
00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:05.639
thought was meant to be funny.

1026
00:42:05.699 --> 00:42:11.039
It's a really lovely character moment, but it's also saying, oh

1027
00:42:11.039 --> 00:42:13.380
yes, we're doing all this feminism stuff, but really women will

1028
00:42:13.380 --> 00:42:15.059
just manipulate you by crying.

1029
00:42:15.119 --> 00:42:17.099
Coming back to my other package.

1030
00:42:17.159 --> 00:42:18.659
Thank you for that, Judas.

1031
00:42:18.719 --> 00:42:19.619
Is that your other person?

1032
00:42:19.679 --> 00:42:22.739
Coming back to my other passion, of course, which is video games.

1033
00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:26.340
I imagine most of the listeners will have heard of Super Mario

1034
00:42:26.340 --> 00:42:27.000
Brothers.

1035
00:42:27.059 --> 00:42:28.019
It's kind of a thing.

1036
00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:31.559
And one of the central conceits of that is most games start with

1037
00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:35.639
Princess Toadstool, Princess Peach Toadstool, being kidnapped by

1038
00:42:35.639 --> 00:42:40.199
Bowser, the king of the turtles, and Mario having to go and save

1039
00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:40.500
her.

1040
00:42:40.500 --> 00:42:43.559
And, you know, so it's obviously the, you know, the woman is

1041
00:42:43.559 --> 00:42:45.780
kidnapped and the man has to say that.

1042
00:42:45.900 --> 00:42:49.800
About 10 years ago, they made a game called Super Princess Peach

1043
00:42:49.800 --> 00:42:53.880
where Mario was kidnapped and Peach had to go rescue him.

1044
00:42:53.940 --> 00:42:57.840
They've watched an episode of The Avengers. in 1960 blah, yeah.

1045
00:42:57.900 --> 00:43:00.179
But Peaches' superpowers.

1046
00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:03.480
Mario Superpowers are throwing fireballs or freezing things or

1047
00:43:03.480 --> 00:43:04.739
turning into a raccoon.

1048
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:08.219
Peach's superpowers involve emotions.

1049
00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:12.599
She gets angry at people and hits them or she cries a river and

1050
00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:13.679
the enemies get swept away.

1051
00:43:13.800 --> 00:43:15.719
So it is the Delgado on purple.

1052
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:21.000
Yeah, so, yeah, it's kind of that thing of women will manipulate

1053
00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:23.699
you with their emotions still exist today.

1054
00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:27.239
That being said, it was a decent game and peach got to be a hero

1055
00:43:27.239 --> 00:43:28.199
and beat lots of people up.

1056
00:43:28.260 --> 00:43:31.800
Ruth is a decent character and she is strong and she is

1057
00:43:31.800 --> 00:43:36.900
intelligent, but there's still this tension in there of, ah, the

1058
00:43:36.900 --> 00:43:39.179
terrible woman.

1059
00:43:39.239 --> 00:43:40.619
Not in 72 and he's out.

1060
00:43:40.679 --> 00:43:42.840
Well, they do that to Sarah Jane when she turns up.

1061
00:43:42.900 --> 00:43:44.400
She's not having a bar of it, though.

1062
00:43:44.460 --> 00:43:46.739
No, no, I mean the writers do it to her.

1063
00:43:46.800 --> 00:43:48.539
Like they try and make her look like an idiot.

1064
00:43:48.599 --> 00:43:49.320
You know what I mean?

1065
00:43:49.380 --> 00:43:52.980
Maybe Liz doesn't have a bar of it, but Holmes is a bit mean to

1066
00:43:52.980 --> 00:43:54.719
Sarah Jane as a character, but...

1067
00:43:54.719 --> 00:43:58.019
Holmes likes that kind of underplayed cruelty, doesn't he?

1068
00:43:58.079 --> 00:43:59.400
He likes throwing that in, yeah.

1069
00:43:59.460 --> 00:44:03.000
Like he makes Sarah say things that make her look like an idiot

1070
00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:03.900
sort of thing.

1071
00:44:03.960 --> 00:44:05.699
Murderer time warrior.

1072
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:08.340
No, I was just actually adding that.

1073
00:44:09.300 --> 00:44:12.840
But Ruth doesn't get to recover a bit.

1074
00:44:12.900 --> 00:44:16.440
You know, she goads Sergeant Benton into action, like, we just

1075
00:44:16.440 --> 00:44:19.800
going to sit here and then, you know, when they're trying to

1076
00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:22.260
control Tom Tit again after the masters left.

1077
00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:26.400
She's like, right, Stu, disconnect the thermal lobes and load up

1078
00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:27.659
the homemic regulator.

1079
00:44:27.719 --> 00:44:28.619
Oh, what do you want me to do?

1080
00:44:28.679 --> 00:44:29.699
You stand there and look pretty.

1081
00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:31.079
Yeah, I like it too.

1082
00:44:31.139 --> 00:44:31.920
I love that as well.

1083
00:44:31.980 --> 00:44:33.480
So generally, I love her character.

1084
00:44:33.539 --> 00:44:35.880
The only thing I don't really like about her character is that

1085
00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:36.780
she's not Liz.

1086
00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:37.679
We're in Cambridge.

1087
00:44:37.739 --> 00:44:38.639
They should have got Liz.

1088
00:44:38.699 --> 00:44:39.719
No, we didn't even mention it.

1089
00:44:40.139 --> 00:44:40.500
No.

1090
00:44:40.559 --> 00:44:43.739
So can I tell you about the 2nd thing that I think is makes this

1091
00:44:43.739 --> 00:44:44.400
story terrible?

1092
00:44:44.460 --> 00:44:45.360
If you must.

1093
00:44:45.420 --> 00:44:48.119
The plot is just absolute garbage.

1094
00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:49.079
It's so bad.

1095
00:44:49.139 --> 00:44:51.420
It's full of all of these sort of elements.

1096
00:44:51.480 --> 00:44:52.500
I disagree with you again.

1097
00:44:52.559 --> 00:44:52.860
Go on.

1098
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:54.000
All of these elements.

1099
00:44:54.059 --> 00:44:58.980
So Stu becomes an old man for no real reason and then gets younger

1100
00:44:58.980 --> 00:45:01.199
an episode later again for no real reason.

1101
00:45:01.260 --> 00:45:04.800
None of the characters actually does this to him or fixes it.

1102
00:45:04.860 --> 00:45:06.840
It just happens and then it unhappens.

1103
00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:11.099
The master has Dr. Percival for the 1st 2 episodes as his sidekick

1104
00:45:11.099 --> 00:45:14.219
and then Cronos kills him for no other reason than he's got

1105
00:45:14.219 --> 00:45:17.579
another sidekick and we don't want all these sidekicks cluttering

1106
00:45:17.579 --> 00:45:18.059
up the place.

1107
00:45:18.119 --> 00:45:22.619
Everyone gets to move very slowly for an episode for no reason and

1108
00:45:22.619 --> 00:45:23.940
then pertly rescues them.

1109
00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:28.079
You know, the master ejects pertry into the time vortex and 2

1110
00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:31.260
minutes later, Joe retrieves him by pressing a button on the

1111
00:45:31.260 --> 00:45:32.219
TARDIS console.

1112
00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:33.480
Do you know what I mean?

1113
00:45:33.539 --> 00:45:36.659
The dog spends half an episode building the time flow analogue.

1114
00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:40.440
It works for 10 seconds, has no discernable effect, and then it

1115
00:45:40.440 --> 00:45:42.300
explodes for no reason.

1116
00:45:42.360 --> 00:45:46.860
Baby Benton appears in one scene and then in a scene at the end

1117
00:45:46.860 --> 00:45:50.940
he's clearly only there to give us the hilarious, you know, tag

1118
00:45:50.940 --> 00:45:52.559
scene at the end of episode six.

1119
00:45:52.619 --> 00:45:57.179
All these elements come in and go absolutely precisely nowhere

1120
00:45:57.179 --> 00:46:01.679
they just get resolved as quickly as they come up and all they're

1121
00:46:01.679 --> 00:46:03.480
doing is marking time.

1122
00:46:03.480 --> 00:46:07.199
And it's exactly what Sloman did with the heat barrier of the

1123
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:07.860
previous year.

1124
00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:09.179
Do you know what I mean?

1125
00:46:09.239 --> 00:46:11.880
Like at the end of the demons, we complained and complained about

1126
00:46:11.880 --> 00:46:13.500
the pacing problems of the demons.

1127
00:46:13.559 --> 00:46:14.639
Here.

1128
00:46:14.699 --> 00:46:17.039
This barely has a plot.

1129
00:46:17.099 --> 00:46:18.960
It's just a bunch of things that happen.

1130
00:46:19.019 --> 00:46:21.960
See, I think that's because it's 3 two-parters.

1131
00:46:22.500 --> 00:46:27.780
It's three, two-part stories, written in the style of a 40s

1132
00:46:27.780 --> 00:46:28.739
serial.

1133
00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:32.159
Is Robert Solomon playing with the ideas of time.

1134
00:46:32.219 --> 00:46:33.780
So what does time do to you with ages you?

1135
00:46:33.840 --> 00:46:34.980
Okay, we'll have a character age.

1136
00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:37.619
Okay, I've had someone age, now I'll use someone.

1137
00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:42.599
Ah, now what if I had people in one speed of time and people in

1138
00:46:42.599 --> 00:46:43.440
another speed of time?

1139
00:46:43.500 --> 00:46:44.159
So we'll put that in.

1140
00:46:44.219 --> 00:46:45.780
We'll freeze people in time.

1141
00:46:45.840 --> 00:46:47.940
Now, I'm not saying it's really well done.

1142
00:46:48.059 --> 00:46:49.800
You probably should have gotten released.

1143
00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:53.940
You probably should have focussed on one or 2 things, but at the

1144
00:46:53.940 --> 00:46:57.179
same time, none of the ideas stick around long enough to outwear

1145
00:46:57.179 --> 00:46:57.719
their welcome.

1146
00:46:57.780 --> 00:47:02.219
No, sometimes they subcribe for like 5 minutes of screen time.

1147
00:47:02.280 --> 00:47:05.880
Don't you think the time flow analogue out stays as welcome?

1148
00:47:05.940 --> 00:47:09.659
Not really, because I'd always thought the time flow analogue was

1149
00:47:09.659 --> 00:47:12.119
a bit silly until I rewatched it recently for the podcast.

1150
00:47:12.119 --> 00:47:15.360
And I was specifically looking for something in the plot that

1151
00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:17.820
justifies the bloody time flow analogue.

1152
00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:20.099
It's crisis' pendant.

1153
00:47:20.219 --> 00:47:25.139
The master takes the pendant and uses the geometric designs on it

1154
00:47:25.139 --> 00:47:29.400
as a constant in terms of measurement in terms of time.

1155
00:47:29.460 --> 00:47:31.320
In the original script.

1156
00:47:31.380 --> 00:47:34.019
The master actually has the line of it doesn't matter if something

1157
00:47:34.019 --> 00:47:36.539
is centimetres or inches so long as the measurements remain

1158
00:47:36.539 --> 00:47:37.320
constantly with each other.

1159
00:47:37.380 --> 00:47:39.480
He talks about the ratios of proportions.

1160
00:47:39.599 --> 00:47:40.079
Yeah, exactly.

1161
00:47:40.139 --> 00:47:43.739
And that is how the doctor explains the time flow analogue as

1162
00:47:43.739 --> 00:47:43.920
well.

1163
00:47:43.980 --> 00:47:45.780
It is not the items that are important.

1164
00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:48.659
It is how they are arranged in relationship to each other.

1165
00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:52.199
No, he talks about their molecular structure as well, you can't

1166
00:47:52.199 --> 00:47:52.800
retrieve that.

1167
00:47:52.860 --> 00:47:55.679
I can and I just... you know, Gareth can.

1168
00:47:55.739 --> 00:48:00.420
Gareth, Gareth Roberts, of course, has a sort of loving tribute to

1169
00:48:00.420 --> 00:48:04.079
the stupid time flow analogue in the lodger where he creates that

1170
00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:06.599
giant thing out of umbrellas and things.

1171
00:48:06.659 --> 00:48:10.559
And the doctor even tries to pass it off as a piece of modern art

1172
00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:12.420
which is what both of them.

1173
00:48:12.480 --> 00:48:14.039
Yeah, yeah, it's what both of them do.

1174
00:48:14.099 --> 00:48:17.940
I think, actually, Nanamouskurri was wearing it on her earlier

1175
00:48:17.940 --> 00:48:19.559
appearances on the 2 Ronnies.

1176
00:48:19.619 --> 00:48:20.820
She just broken through in the charts.

1177
00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:24.780
Because, you know, with the Hunter, or with the Greek military

1178
00:48:24.780 --> 00:48:28.800
uprising in 67, you had a lot of Greek people coming into London

1179
00:48:28.800 --> 00:48:31.860
and there were lots of restaurants and, you know, and there were

1180
00:48:31.860 --> 00:48:34.440
Domardis and there were donor kebabs, although I think they had

1181
00:48:34.440 --> 00:48:35.340
just ooze over there.

1182
00:48:35.400 --> 00:48:37.860
But you know, it was the great thing was the trendy thing.

1183
00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:39.300
All that Cretan jazz.

1184
00:48:39.360 --> 00:48:40.199
All that, exactly.

1185
00:48:40.260 --> 00:48:44.340
And terracotta weeks and sensibilities.

1186
00:48:44.400 --> 00:48:47.820
But no, anonymous curry, that year, she'd been charting and she'd

1187
00:48:47.820 --> 00:48:50.460
be on the 2 runnings, wearing exactly that pendant.

1188
00:48:50.519 --> 00:48:55.139
With the backing vocals provided by those that big umbrella

1189
00:48:55.139 --> 00:48:55.559
machine.

1190
00:48:55.619 --> 00:48:57.840
Can we go to Atlantis?

1191
00:48:57.900 --> 00:49:00.059
Oh, look, you know what?

1192
00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:00.960
Gorgeous sets.

1193
00:49:01.019 --> 00:49:03.480
So my to 4 point is, I think it's stunning.

1194
00:49:03.539 --> 00:49:04.739
And you know what?

1195
00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:07.559
The principal players are not that bad.

1196
00:49:07.619 --> 00:49:11.099
I think Dalios is a bit of a worry, but oh, he's lovely.

1197
00:49:11.219 --> 00:49:12.840
I love...

1198
00:49:12.960 --> 00:49:14.400
I love Ingrid Pitt, isn't it?

1199
00:49:14.460 --> 00:49:15.780
Oh, yeah, it's impossible.

1200
00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:20.940
We actually get proper BBC Shakespeare-ish classics with her

1201
00:49:20.940 --> 00:49:23.340
performance and in fact, with the sets and the look of this, This

1202
00:49:23.340 --> 00:49:27.239
would not have been at all odd for any of the viewers sitting at

1203
00:49:27.239 --> 00:49:30.000
home who were at school at the time or maybe in professions like

1204
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:34.139
yours that, you know, I said, she's totally convincing as a BBC

1205
00:49:34.139 --> 00:49:39.000
classics naughty old Medea type of queeny type person.

1206
00:49:39.059 --> 00:49:44.340
In fact, she's really explicitly sneaking around on Dahlias, of

1207
00:49:44.340 --> 00:49:47.699
course, because she says, you know, she's talking with her maid

1208
00:49:47.699 --> 00:49:49.559
and they're talking about him. that one.

1209
00:49:49.619 --> 00:49:50.880
I shall have a bit of that one.

1210
00:49:50.940 --> 00:49:54.179
She's actually the John Collins of the Asian world, isn't she?

1211
00:49:54.239 --> 00:49:54.960
Well, May West.

1212
00:49:55.019 --> 00:49:57.179
You get the impression that she's had an affair.

1213
00:49:57.360 --> 00:49:57.900
She won't sink.

1214
00:49:58.019 --> 00:50:01.260
Well, you do get the impression that you've, that she's already

1215
00:50:01.260 --> 00:50:02.820
had an affair with hippy ass.

1216
00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:04.500
Oh, so she says she has.

1217
00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:06.840
She knows that he cloy on her tongue.

1218
00:50:06.900 --> 00:50:10.139
Well, he says, when he comes in, he says, I was I was expecting to

1219
00:50:10.139 --> 00:50:13.619
see the sympathetic and shy young girl and now I've got this ice

1220
00:50:13.619 --> 00:50:14.219
queen.

1221
00:50:14.280 --> 00:50:18.900
But he also says that he expected to be sent on a message, you

1222
00:50:18.900 --> 00:50:20.280
know, for some other lordling.

1223
00:50:20.340 --> 00:50:22.139
So there are other people.

1224
00:50:22.139 --> 00:50:24.719
And then, of course, she fancies the master something wrong.

1225
00:50:24.780 --> 00:50:25.199
I like that.

1226
00:50:25.500 --> 00:50:26.460
I shan't have that one, yes.

1227
00:50:26.519 --> 00:50:30.420
And the master tries his charm on her and she's not having a bar.

1228
00:50:30.480 --> 00:50:32.099
It's like, no, you are mine.

1229
00:50:32.159 --> 00:50:33.840
Who's queen?

1230
00:50:33.900 --> 00:50:36.659
Yeah, she's actually very convincing in her royal disposition.

1231
00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:39.420
And when she meets Joe, it's one of those few scenes that Cody's

1232
00:50:39.420 --> 00:50:42.420
given where both characters are entirely sympathetic and really

1233
00:50:42.420 --> 00:50:43.019
believable.

1234
00:50:43.079 --> 00:50:45.900
Look, when the queen looks at her, you know, what's this handshake

1235
00:50:45.900 --> 00:50:47.159
and why would I repeat myself?

1236
00:50:47.219 --> 00:50:51.119
She's willing to come forward and willing to meet, but never

1237
00:50:51.119 --> 00:50:52.619
forget her position.

1238
00:50:52.679 --> 00:50:53.039
Yes.

1239
00:50:53.039 --> 00:50:54.780
She's terrific really well.

1240
00:50:54.840 --> 00:50:56.519
Yeah, she might be interesting in it.

1241
00:50:56.579 --> 00:50:58.739
Well, it's just a relief to get someone who's acting.

1242
00:50:58.800 --> 00:50:59.340
Yeah, yeah.

1243
00:51:00.179 --> 00:51:03.360
Also acting, of course, is Kronos.

1244
00:51:04.500 --> 00:51:07.440
Straight from the parents' people. love that.

1245
00:51:07.500 --> 00:51:09.000
Yeah, well, where do we go with that?

1246
00:51:09.239 --> 00:51:11.280
So it really must be, is it the worst?

1247
00:51:11.340 --> 00:51:13.739
realised monster so far?

1248
00:51:13.800 --> 00:51:15.239
I think, you know what?

1249
00:51:15.300 --> 00:51:17.639
I think the biggest problem is...

1250
00:51:17.639 --> 00:51:20.400
Joan Sutherland hadn't finished with the frock before they put it

1251
00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:22.199
onto Chronos the Carnival, yeah.

1252
00:51:22.260 --> 00:51:24.840
I think the big I think the big problem is just showing it.

1253
00:51:24.900 --> 00:51:25.739
Don't show it.

1254
00:51:25.800 --> 00:51:27.719
Keep the camera out of focus.

1255
00:51:27.780 --> 00:51:28.860
Well, and they do try and do that.

1256
00:51:28.920 --> 00:51:30.360
I mean, they had the birds flapping.

1257
00:51:30.420 --> 00:51:33.900
And originally the appearance effect was going to be with a

1258
00:51:33.900 --> 00:51:36.000
variety of different birds flapping.

1259
00:51:36.059 --> 00:51:42.059
So you would just see all these wing shapes and a ghostly ethereal

1260
00:51:42.059 --> 00:51:43.440
being would come out of it.

1261
00:51:43.500 --> 00:51:46.380
And of course, we got the Doctor Who equivalent instead.

1262
00:51:46.679 --> 00:51:49.199
Yeah, which is really terrible. and they try and hide it.

1263
00:51:49.260 --> 00:51:52.260
Like the scene where it attacks Atlantis at the end, it's barely

1264
00:51:52.260 --> 00:51:52.559
visible.

1265
00:51:52.619 --> 00:51:56.099
Clearly the director has said, get that thing out of my shot. you

1266
00:51:56.099 --> 00:51:59.940
know, And they do the thing too, where they kind of, it's very

1267
00:51:59.940 --> 00:52:03.360
white and they light it and they hope that it's going to flare out

1268
00:52:03.360 --> 00:52:06.000
the videotape. front axial projections.

1269
00:52:06.059 --> 00:52:08.400
Oh, they do use front axial projection.

1270
00:52:08.460 --> 00:52:09.659
That axial projection.

1271
00:52:09.719 --> 00:52:10.860
So, yeah, I deal with that.

1272
00:52:10.860 --> 00:52:11.639
Quite enough of it, though.

1273
00:52:11.699 --> 00:52:15.059
Dear listener, for those of you who don't know, front tacks, your

1274
00:52:15.059 --> 00:52:20.699
projection is when you paint a costume or object with a certain

1275
00:52:20.699 --> 00:52:26.880
phosphorescent... not phosphorescent, it's sort of like...

1276
00:52:26.880 --> 00:52:27.420
Pearlescent.

1277
00:52:27.480 --> 00:52:30.119
Yeah, you we're sort of an emperor.

1278
00:52:30.239 --> 00:52:31.320
Silver Nemesis will do it.

1279
00:52:31.380 --> 00:52:33.000
We'll also see it next year in the Green Death.

1280
00:52:33.059 --> 00:52:36.960
And then when you shine a light on it, The light reflects, but it

1281
00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:38.639
doesn't reflect the way a mirror would.

1282
00:52:38.699 --> 00:52:41.880
It sort of absorbs the light 1st and then reflects it back a

1283
00:52:41.880 --> 00:52:45.719
millisecond light, meaning you get a glowing effect rather than a

1284
00:52:45.719 --> 00:52:46.199
reflection effect.

1285
00:52:46.260 --> 00:52:47.400
Well, you do.

1286
00:52:47.460 --> 00:52:49.199
There are some shots where you can see it.

1287
00:52:49.260 --> 00:52:51.480
It is kind of blowing out.

1288
00:52:51.539 --> 00:52:52.199
Clears the hotel.

1289
00:52:52.260 --> 00:52:55.380
I just kind of wish they, you know, they've done it with just the

1290
00:52:55.380 --> 00:52:56.460
shadow of the creature.

1291
00:52:56.519 --> 00:52:57.840
Like you sort of see the flapping.

1292
00:52:57.900 --> 00:52:58.440
I've never seen.

1293
00:52:58.559 --> 00:52:59.699
Look, you know, thank you.

1294
00:52:59.760 --> 00:53:03.840
There's that cat people, the Tourneau, the Jacques Tournay film of

1295
00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:04.380
1942.

1296
00:53:04.500 --> 00:53:06.300
And its sequel, both excellent film.

1297
00:53:06.420 --> 00:53:10.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was not as successful, but he also did, we've

1298
00:53:10.860 --> 00:53:14.579
mentioned him before, but he's a terrific early RKO horror

1299
00:53:14.579 --> 00:53:18.719
director who whose shots would have been perfect for this story.

1300
00:53:18.840 --> 00:53:19.800
You never see the cat.

1301
00:53:19.860 --> 00:53:20.880
You never see the village.

1302
00:53:20.940 --> 00:53:22.619
You just see the shadows on the wall.

1303
00:53:22.679 --> 00:53:23.400
Gee it works well.

1304
00:53:23.460 --> 00:53:26.820
It was also the 1st film to use that technique, which is so famous

1305
00:53:26.820 --> 00:53:30.179
in horror films, which is having silence, silence, silence.

1306
00:53:30.239 --> 00:53:31.380
And then a loud noise.

1307
00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:33.239
No, that's called Tristram Curry.

1308
00:53:33.300 --> 00:53:37.019
But the loud noise is then something non-threatening.

1309
00:53:37.139 --> 00:53:43.679
So where it's used in cat people is she is walking along the side

1310
00:53:43.679 --> 00:53:46.380
of the street and she thinks she can hear that.

1311
00:53:46.440 --> 00:53:48.539
How much love becomes up and she's, no, sorry.

1312
00:53:48.599 --> 00:53:50.219
Can I hear the cat?

1313
00:53:50.280 --> 00:53:51.480
We should probably come back to it.

1314
00:53:51.539 --> 00:53:53.760
There is a hissing sound like a big panther.

1315
00:53:53.820 --> 00:53:54.179
Oh my god.

1316
00:53:54.239 --> 00:53:55.320
John Nathan Turner.

1317
00:53:55.440 --> 00:53:56.760
No, it's the hydraulic door of a bus.

1318
00:53:56.880 --> 00:53:59.280
How often those 2 have been confused.

1319
00:53:59.340 --> 00:54:03.659
I would like to get a sample of you saying surprise and make that

1320
00:54:03.659 --> 00:54:05.039
my text tone.

1321
00:54:05.400 --> 00:54:07.800
Can I do that?

1322
00:54:08.460 --> 00:54:10.619
I was thinking that was...

1323
00:54:10.619 --> 00:54:12.360
I was thinking that was some hippayas.

1324
00:54:13.440 --> 00:54:15.360
Can I just say that?

1325
00:54:15.420 --> 00:54:19.320
really love the jumping around that this story does.

1326
00:54:19.380 --> 00:54:20.639
Hello?

1327
00:54:20.639 --> 00:54:22.380
Because, well, exactly.

1328
00:54:22.980 --> 00:54:27.599
Doctor Who, for the past few years, really since the Chase, hasn't

1329
00:54:27.599 --> 00:54:31.739
had a story that's set in 2 locations continuously.

1330
00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:34.139
The closest we get is Inferno and Day of the Daleks.

1331
00:54:34.260 --> 00:54:35.340
There's a reason for that.

1332
00:54:35.400 --> 00:54:40.079
But in this story, there's something exciting about it because the

1333
00:54:40.079 --> 00:54:41.579
story twists and turns so much.

1334
00:54:41.639 --> 00:54:42.840
You don't know where you're going there.

1335
00:54:42.900 --> 00:54:45.000
Because you get the scenes in the TARDIS in the middle and then

1336
00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:46.260
you get Atlantis and stuff.

1337
00:54:46.320 --> 00:54:50.940
Yeah, I think also before that, you've got, you've got, you've got

1338
00:54:50.940 --> 00:54:55.199
the Cambridge lab, you've got the rooms around Cambridge, then

1339
00:54:55.199 --> 00:54:58.860
you've got the convoy on its way, then you've got the TARDIS, then

1340
00:54:58.860 --> 00:55:01.260
you've got Atlantis, and then it all comes back.

1341
00:55:01.320 --> 00:55:02.880
Look, it's messy.

1342
00:55:02.940 --> 00:55:06.539
Don't get me wrong, but I think it's also really exciting that

1343
00:55:06.539 --> 00:55:07.679
they are trying something new.

1344
00:55:07.860 --> 00:55:11.280
Like we were saying with the mutants, and I know you don't agree

1345
00:55:11.280 --> 00:55:15.599
Richard, but if there is a criticism that could be laid at that

1346
00:55:15.599 --> 00:55:18.780
story, it is perhaps that the characters are stagnant character

1347
00:55:18.780 --> 00:55:22.019
models, that we have seen this type of story before.

1348
00:55:22.679 --> 00:55:25.980
For better or for worse, I don't think you can say you've seen

1349
00:55:25.980 --> 00:55:27.239
anything like the Time Monster before.

1350
00:55:27.300 --> 00:55:29.340
I'm very fond of this story.

1351
00:55:29.400 --> 00:55:31.679
I do think you could have done with some judicious cutting and

1352
00:55:31.679 --> 00:55:34.739
perhaps losing a couple of episodes that I can think you can say

1353
00:55:34.739 --> 00:55:37.739
that for a lot of the 6 parties, except for sea devils maybe, just

1354
00:55:37.739 --> 00:55:38.699
because there's so much going on.

1355
00:55:38.760 --> 00:55:42.599
I think, I mean, it's worth talking about what sort of badness the

1356
00:55:42.599 --> 00:55:43.559
poetry era does.

1357
00:55:43.619 --> 00:55:44.340
Do you know what I mean?

1358
00:55:44.400 --> 00:55:47.159
Like, I think that this is probably the worst story.

1359
00:55:47.219 --> 00:55:50.579
Maybe Monster of Paladon is worse, but I think it's still

1360
00:55:50.579 --> 00:55:52.440
enjoyable.

1361
00:55:52.500 --> 00:55:54.059
The worst poetry story.

1362
00:55:54.119 --> 00:55:54.719
Really?

1363
00:55:54.780 --> 00:55:55.800
Time Monster?

1364
00:55:55.860 --> 00:55:56.699
quite a lot.

1365
00:55:56.760 --> 00:55:58.199
Yeah, I wouldn't say that.

1366
00:55:58.260 --> 00:56:00.659
No, I wouldn't say that. very entertaining.

1367
00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:02.159
But that's what I'm saying.

1368
00:56:02.219 --> 00:56:05.400
Even a band per twee story is actually pretty entertaining.

1369
00:56:05.400 --> 00:56:07.800
And you've got the big regular cast.

1370
00:56:07.860 --> 00:56:09.480
You've got people doing their party pieces.

1371
00:56:09.539 --> 00:56:11.820
You know, you've got the master.

1372
00:56:11.880 --> 00:56:14.340
Like all of that stuff is actually quite fun.

1373
00:56:14.400 --> 00:56:16.019
And so I enjoy this.

1374
00:56:16.079 --> 00:56:19.380
I didn't think that the demons was as good as I remembered it last

1375
00:56:19.380 --> 00:56:21.719
year, but I still thought it was pretty enjoyable.

1376
00:56:21.780 --> 00:56:26.460
So I think that even when there's a misfire, like this story, that

1377
00:56:26.460 --> 00:56:31.920
it never falls below a certain level of competence and a certain

1378
00:56:31.920 --> 00:56:35.159
level of entertainment value, there's nothing in the purse we era

1379
00:56:35.159 --> 00:56:38.039
to kind of equal, you know, the celestial toy maker.

1380
00:56:38.099 --> 00:56:38.880
Do you know what I mean?

1381
00:56:38.940 --> 00:56:40.920
It never, ever got...

1382
00:56:40.980 --> 00:56:42.179
We don't have that wrong.

1383
00:56:42.239 --> 00:56:42.840
That's wild.

1384
00:56:43.260 --> 00:56:47.219
Although there is a point of the story that seems to draw more eye

1385
00:56:47.219 --> 00:56:48.539
on anything else.

1386
00:56:48.900 --> 00:56:50.820
The Tartar set.

1387
00:56:51.000 --> 00:56:53.519
Thank you for getting back to that. you love it?

1388
00:56:53.579 --> 00:56:54.000
Yes.

1389
00:56:54.300 --> 00:56:54.840
I love it.

1390
00:56:55.199 --> 00:56:57.900
I think we've all made cupcakes at home.

1391
00:56:57.960 --> 00:56:59.760
We can all see the point of those walls.

1392
00:56:59.820 --> 00:57:00.780
This is what people don't get.

1393
00:57:00.840 --> 00:57:05.940
The Capelli designs that were really featured strongly in the 68

1394
00:57:05.940 --> 00:57:12.119
Milano design fair in Italy that you subsequently see turning up

1395
00:57:12.119 --> 00:57:14.579
the vac form plastic and the fibreglass things that you see.

1396
00:57:14.639 --> 00:57:17.760
The Vernapant and things of the early 60s, but pretty much watch

1397
00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:22.139
every episode of Space 1979 or everything that was made in the

1398
00:57:22.139 --> 00:57:26.579
early 70s. those beautiful formed white furniture thing.

1399
00:57:26.639 --> 00:57:29.940
This is absolutely contemporaneous and it's good design.

1400
00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:30.480
I like it.

1401
00:57:30.539 --> 00:57:33.119
I actually kind of disappointed that they didn't upgrade the

1402
00:57:33.119 --> 00:57:34.739
console to go with it.

1403
00:57:34.800 --> 00:57:36.300
And I think that's why the set doesn't work.

1404
00:57:36.360 --> 00:57:40.920
It was called Modular, the whole look and that lettering, you know

1405
00:57:40.920 --> 00:57:43.440
the microgrammar lettering, the space style that you see on space

1406
00:57:43.440 --> 00:57:48.840
1999 that ends up on sky base in that whole look is very much of

1407
00:57:48.840 --> 00:57:49.500
this period.

1408
00:57:49.559 --> 00:57:51.900
They didn't actually go far enough with it.

1409
00:57:51.960 --> 00:57:53.219
And I think that's why it didn't work.

1410
00:57:53.280 --> 00:57:57.599
I also think it's a great relief given how tired and minimal the

1411
00:57:57.599 --> 00:58:00.119
Tartar set had been during the Pertuy era.

1412
00:58:00.179 --> 00:58:02.460
We've only seen it a few times, but it's pretty perfunctory.

1413
00:58:02.519 --> 00:58:03.420
The corner of the room.

1414
00:58:03.480 --> 00:58:06.000
Well, it's a corner of your dad's office, isn't it?

1415
00:58:06.000 --> 00:58:07.260
Including the filing cabinet.

1416
00:58:07.260 --> 00:58:09.900
And, you know, like those terrible photographic blowups and

1417
00:58:09.900 --> 00:58:10.139
stuff.

1418
00:58:10.199 --> 00:58:11.880
It was looking really tired.

1419
00:58:11.940 --> 00:58:13.619
This is groovy.

1420
00:58:13.679 --> 00:58:16.860
I love how the master's version has chocolate fountain in the

1421
00:58:16.860 --> 00:58:17.280
middle of it.

1422
00:58:17.400 --> 00:58:19.980
I'm sorry, is that another euphemist?

1423
00:58:20.039 --> 00:58:22.320
No, no, your time rotor looks like a chocolate fountain.

1424
00:58:22.380 --> 00:58:22.860
No, it wasn't.

1425
00:58:22.920 --> 00:58:26.159
I don't think you should be using that kind of language is a

1426
00:58:26.159 --> 00:58:27.119
family podcast.

1427
00:58:27.179 --> 00:58:28.800
I won't invite you around for fondue.

1428
00:58:29.340 --> 00:58:31.920
No, we've done that, but...

1429
00:58:31.920 --> 00:58:35.099
Anyway, no, I really do think it's a shame that the console is

1430
00:58:35.099 --> 00:58:38.039
staying in the Brakaki original, and how sexy would it have looked

1431
00:58:38.039 --> 00:58:42.300
with a slightly curved, moulded my pick of the episode would be to

1432
00:58:42.300 --> 00:58:45.659
go and look at any of Colani's designs, which are very much

1433
00:58:45.659 --> 00:58:51.239
influenced of this form of circularity and curvaciousness and a

1434
00:58:51.239 --> 00:58:52.139
Kalani console.

1435
00:58:52.199 --> 00:58:55.139
I might do a little drawing and stick it on the website to show

1436
00:58:55.139 --> 00:58:58.619
just how fabulous this whole story might have been with, oh

1437
00:58:58.619 --> 00:59:00.059
goodness, what a fanboy thing to do.

1438
00:59:00.119 --> 00:59:01.860
But anyway, I think that's a wonderful idea, Richard.

1439
00:59:01.920 --> 00:59:03.539
I really hope you do that homework for me.

1440
00:59:03.599 --> 00:59:08.400
Now, I have been unresting in my praise of this story, I suppose.

1441
00:59:08.460 --> 00:59:13.019
And I will say the one thing I find that's kind of kind of

1442
00:59:13.019 --> 00:59:17.519
problematic about it is it's really starting to see the sort of

1443
00:59:17.519 --> 00:59:18.659
dumbing down of unit.

1444
00:59:18.719 --> 00:59:20.400
Oh, absolutely.

1445
00:59:20.460 --> 00:59:21.360
Thanks for mentioning that.

1446
00:59:21.420 --> 00:59:23.579
Yes, it's getting a little...

1447
00:59:23.639 --> 00:59:24.659
Nathan, what's the word you'd use?

1448
00:59:24.719 --> 00:59:26.400
Ah, exhausting.

1449
00:59:26.760 --> 00:59:27.719
That's the one. you.

1450
00:59:27.780 --> 00:59:30.719
You know, it also doesn't help that all 3 of them need a jolly

1451
00:59:30.719 --> 00:59:31.380
good hair. cut.

1452
00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:33.239
They're a bit wet, aren't they?

1453
00:59:33.300 --> 00:59:34.079
They're a bit dark.

1454
00:59:34.139 --> 00:59:36.059
I don't think it's just that they don't have a blow dryer.

1455
00:59:36.119 --> 00:59:37.559
They're a bit soggy.

1456
00:59:37.619 --> 00:59:39.179
Brigady is really stupid.

1457
00:59:39.300 --> 00:59:40.199
Well, he's cranky.

1458
00:59:40.199 --> 00:59:41.820
And mouthy.

1459
00:59:41.880 --> 00:59:44.099
Benton actually, I think, is the most sympathetic.

1460
00:59:44.159 --> 00:59:46.739
I really like the way Benton takes on the master.

1461
00:59:46.800 --> 00:59:47.699
Yeah, yeah, it's good.

1462
00:59:47.760 --> 00:59:48.420
It's convincing.

1463
00:59:48.480 --> 00:59:49.440
It actually works.

1464
00:59:49.500 --> 00:59:50.579
Well, mate, you just try it.

1465
00:59:50.639 --> 00:59:54.659
I love the mask going, no, Mr. Benton, that was the oldest trick

1466
00:59:54.659 --> 00:59:55.079
in the book.

1467
00:59:55.139 --> 00:59:56.280
He's fabulous.

1468
00:59:56.340 --> 00:59:59.460
That's why the master won't kill any of them because he's having

1469
00:59:59.460 --> 01:00:00.179
too much.

1470
01:00:00.239 --> 01:00:00.719
He loves them.

1471
01:00:00.780 --> 01:00:01.380
Yes.

1472
01:00:01.440 --> 01:00:01.679
Yeah.

1473
01:00:01.739 --> 01:00:06.239
Benton is easily the most capable member of unit in this story.

1474
01:00:06.360 --> 01:00:09.239
Everything that happens brigadier says, oh, no, no, that can't

1475
01:00:09.239 --> 01:00:09.960
possibly be happening.

1476
01:00:10.079 --> 01:00:12.599
It's like, you've bloody seen spaghetti monsters.

1477
01:00:12.659 --> 01:00:17.579
Yeah, it's a bit Counsellor Troy, mid-run, next generation trek

1478
01:00:17.579 --> 01:00:20.940
when we just have to reboot every episode because, you know, we're

1479
01:00:20.940 --> 01:00:21.659
in syndication.

1480
01:00:21.719 --> 01:00:23.219
Doctor Who doesn't have that excuse.

1481
01:00:23.280 --> 01:00:27.000
Doctor Who was the 1st series to properly story arc, soap operas

1482
01:00:27.000 --> 01:00:29.400
don't count, and they're forgetting it, aren't they?

1483
01:00:29.460 --> 01:00:32.699
Yeah, and it's a shame, really, because it seems like the reason

1484
01:00:32.699 --> 01:00:34.980
they're doing it is to make the doctor seem more clever.

1485
01:00:35.039 --> 01:00:38.579
And I know I said on the podcast that one of the things I really

1486
01:00:38.579 --> 01:00:42.420
hate in any kind of storytelling is making one character look

1487
01:00:42.420 --> 01:00:45.119
clever, not by making them look clever, but by making the people

1488
01:00:45.119 --> 01:00:45.960
around them look stupid.

1489
01:00:46.019 --> 01:00:47.940
It's bad child rearing, isn't it?

1490
01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:48.900
You don't do it in a family.

1491
01:00:48.900 --> 01:00:52.679
You don't do it with your school with your school charges either.

1492
01:00:52.739 --> 01:00:55.800
But also, it actually just makes your hero look more stupid.

1493
01:00:55.860 --> 01:00:59.159
Like pert we said, with Carrie John not going down in the caves in

1494
01:00:59.159 --> 01:01:01.920
a miniskirt, he would say Doctor Who would not work with someone

1495
01:01:01.920 --> 01:01:03.900
who would do something.

1496
01:01:03.960 --> 01:01:05.820
Because it actually brings the doctor down.

1497
01:01:05.820 --> 01:01:07.019
Exactly. so to speak.

1498
01:01:07.079 --> 01:01:08.159
Are we still talking about min skirts?

1499
01:01:08.219 --> 01:01:12.599
And the fun thing about the brigadier is that in some ways, he was

1500
01:01:12.599 --> 01:01:15.659
sort of more savvy than the doctor.

1501
01:01:15.719 --> 01:01:21.239
Yeah, he was amused by the doctor, you know, and we talked about

1502
01:01:21.239 --> 01:01:26.579
that sort of curl of the lip and that kind of rye and he, you know

1503
01:01:26.579 --> 01:01:27.000
attitude.

1504
01:01:27.059 --> 01:01:28.559
He was smart, he was clever.

1505
01:01:28.619 --> 01:01:31.500
He was kind of funny, but here he's turning into a blustering

1506
01:01:31.500 --> 01:01:31.860
idiot.

1507
01:01:31.920 --> 01:01:36.599
It's only going to get worse spoiler alert in the next story at

1508
01:01:36.599 --> 01:01:37.980
the start of next year.

1509
01:01:38.039 --> 01:01:40.139
And I think it's a big shame.

1510
01:01:40.260 --> 01:01:43.260
And I don't think it's a degeneration of his character.

1511
01:01:43.320 --> 01:01:45.840
I don't think this is where he's headed from here on in.

1512
01:01:45.900 --> 01:01:46.500
Do you know what I mean?

1513
01:01:46.559 --> 01:01:47.699
It's an aberration.

1514
01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:48.420
It's a blip.

1515
01:01:48.480 --> 01:01:49.380
Thankfully.

1516
01:01:49.440 --> 01:01:53.940
But the trouble is, it's a blip in a story that Barry Letts has

1517
01:01:53.940 --> 01:01:56.039
his fingerprints all over.

1518
01:01:56.099 --> 01:01:56.639
Yeah, yeah.

1519
01:01:56.699 --> 01:01:59.519
Well, as Richard said earlier, I do think this story is an attempt

1520
01:01:59.519 --> 01:02:01.440
to do a proper comedy.

1521
01:02:02.280 --> 01:02:04.199
Romans, is it though?

1522
01:02:04.260 --> 01:02:05.519
Yeah, it's not the Romans.

1523
01:02:05.579 --> 01:02:07.559
I don't I don't think Doctor Who. who doesn't.

1524
01:02:07.619 --> 01:02:09.840
Doctor Who has found it very difficult to support comedy every

1525
01:02:09.840 --> 01:02:11.579
time it's attempted, which is very often.

1526
01:02:11.639 --> 01:02:12.900
That's true.

1527
01:02:12.960 --> 01:02:14.219
For some reason, just doesn't.

1528
01:02:14.280 --> 01:02:16.920
No, my biggest disappointment in this story is you've said, is

1529
01:02:16.920 --> 01:02:19.260
that the brigadier is so poorly served.

1530
01:02:19.320 --> 01:02:22.440
And you do notice throughout the last few seasons that it's only

1531
01:02:22.440 --> 01:02:27.239
Nick's sidelines and sardonic grin or a certain little thing that

1532
01:02:27.239 --> 01:02:29.039
he'll throw in that elevates the character.

1533
01:02:29.099 --> 01:02:31.619
He's really poorly served and underwritten.

1534
01:02:32.400 --> 01:02:34.619
It's bit dumbed down.

1535
01:02:34.679 --> 01:02:35.159
Yeah.

1536
01:02:35.760 --> 01:02:37.860
Just before we go on.

1537
01:02:37.920 --> 01:02:38.280
Oh, yes.

1538
01:02:38.340 --> 01:02:42.000
Jenny Lairds and our picks of the week in Welsh Watch.

1539
01:02:42.059 --> 01:02:45.780
Purvy, windowy, washy, Walsh.

1540
01:02:45.840 --> 01:02:46.440
Yeah, yeah.

1541
01:02:46.500 --> 01:02:51.179
Terry Walsh plays a window cleaner who was surprised by a vase

1542
01:02:51.179 --> 01:02:52.440
appearing out of thin air.

1543
01:02:52.500 --> 01:02:56.460
Surprise and falls down from a ladder.

1544
01:02:56.579 --> 01:02:59.400
That's Walsh Watch for this season.

1545
01:02:59.460 --> 01:03:01.320
It's so terrible though.

1546
01:03:01.380 --> 01:03:04.440
Because, like, the brigadier and some...

1547
01:03:04.440 --> 01:03:06.360
He does a lovely prep for, though, is really good.

1548
01:03:06.420 --> 01:03:09.179
But the brigadier and some civil servants come along.

1549
01:03:09.239 --> 01:03:10.199
Feel him up a bit.

1550
01:03:10.199 --> 01:03:11.460
And they go, oh, he's still alive.

1551
01:03:11.519 --> 01:03:13.199
And then the Civil Servant just sort of walks.

1552
01:03:13.260 --> 01:03:13.920
Yeah, bugger off.

1553
01:03:14.519 --> 01:03:18.239
No, I love the ambulance. shows what a bastard, this whole sermon

1554
01:03:18.239 --> 01:03:18.480
is.

1555
01:03:18.539 --> 01:03:20.400
It's a cut price, Steve.

1556
01:03:20.460 --> 01:03:22.619
It's a bit of a shame that he doesn't get his cup-uppance.

1557
01:03:22.739 --> 01:03:24.059
He just sort of disappears from the plot.

1558
01:03:24.179 --> 01:03:27.780
Oh, you see him later on arguing and being ticked off by the

1559
01:03:27.780 --> 01:03:28.079
doctors.

1560
01:03:28.079 --> 01:03:30.900
Coming back to something you were saying earlier, Nathan, I've

1561
01:03:30.900 --> 01:03:31.380
been thinking about it.

1562
01:03:31.440 --> 01:03:35.159
The master does have a lot of instances of starting off with one

1563
01:03:35.159 --> 01:03:38.639
henchman and then swapping them halfway through the story where

1564
01:03:38.639 --> 01:03:42.420
they're after they're brutally murdered or... hench swapping.

1565
01:03:42.480 --> 01:03:42.840
Yes.

1566
01:03:42.900 --> 01:03:44.639
There's a lot of that in the early 70s.

1567
01:03:44.820 --> 01:03:45.659
Yes, they're cold.

1568
01:03:45.780 --> 01:03:49.860
I think the only one who actually survives is Captain Chin Li when

1569
01:03:49.860 --> 01:03:51.300
she swapped out for Maler.

1570
01:03:51.599 --> 01:03:53.159
That's true.

1571
01:03:53.219 --> 01:03:56.039
Well, that's because she was also married to the director, so she

1572
01:03:56.039 --> 01:03:57.539
wasn't going to be lost.

1573
01:03:57.599 --> 01:04:00.179
She wasn't going to be lost in a hench swapping party.

1574
01:04:00.239 --> 01:04:01.500
She would not have been left behind.

1575
01:04:01.559 --> 01:04:03.420
Although, you know what?

1576
01:04:03.480 --> 01:04:06.599
If I were married to a writer and the writer said, oh, I'm going

1577
01:04:06.599 --> 01:04:09.300
to put you in a TV script, I would actually say, oh, can you give

1578
01:04:09.300 --> 01:04:10.500
me a really good death scene?

1579
01:04:10.619 --> 01:04:13.019
Like, can I be burned to death or something?

1580
01:04:13.079 --> 01:04:15.539
You know, get your aggression out on me that way.

1581
01:04:15.599 --> 01:04:17.460
It's an interesting relationship, paradigm.

1582
01:04:18.119 --> 01:04:19.440
Tell us more.

1583
01:04:19.500 --> 01:04:20.880
Yeah, lie down here on this camp.

1584
01:04:20.940 --> 01:04:22.199
What's Rod's comment?

1585
01:04:22.260 --> 01:04:22.679
What do you want?

1586
01:04:22.739 --> 01:04:24.300
What do you think his paintings are about?

1587
01:04:27.780 --> 01:04:33.719
Okay, so aren't we move on to that time of the season, the Jenny

1588
01:04:33.719 --> 01:04:36.059
Laird awards the most puzzling creative choice?

1589
01:04:36.659 --> 01:04:38.880
Nathan, would you like to go first?

1590
01:04:38.940 --> 01:04:44.760
Well, my Jenny Laird Award goes to 3 time Academy Award winner.

1591
01:04:45.360 --> 01:04:49.139
So he can put...

1592
01:04:49.199 --> 01:04:55.019
He can put this on his mantlepiece next to his his Oscars, which

1593
01:04:55.019 --> 01:04:56.760
is a...

1594
01:04:56.820 --> 01:04:57.659
Well, he does a spot.

1595
01:04:57.719 --> 01:05:00.239
No, he did the Spider-Man, the last 3 Spider-Man costumes.

1596
01:05:00.300 --> 01:05:03.119
Yeah, yeah, the same designer who designed Tom Baker's costume

1597
01:05:03.119 --> 01:05:05.579
designed the Toby Maguire Spider-Man.

1598
01:05:05.699 --> 01:05:10.320
So he did the costume for the mutants, but he gives both Jeffrey

1599
01:05:10.320 --> 01:05:15.539
Palmer and George Prafter these unbelievably terrible dresses

1600
01:05:15.539 --> 01:05:19.079
which make them look paunchy and have like giantly narrow

1601
01:05:19.079 --> 01:05:22.320
shoulders and a hugely hideously unflattering.

1602
01:05:22.380 --> 01:05:25.800
Due to mid-career time lords, didn't he?

1603
01:05:25.860 --> 01:05:28.679
He did do time lords for deadly assassin too, didn't he?

1604
01:05:28.739 --> 01:05:30.539
Yes, yeah, that was great.

1605
01:05:30.599 --> 01:05:32.460
Yeah, just crustacea collars.

1606
01:05:32.519 --> 01:05:33.539
But they have shoulders.

1607
01:05:33.599 --> 01:05:34.440
Do you know what I mean?

1608
01:05:34.500 --> 01:05:36.119
Poor old Jeffrey Palmer comes in.

1609
01:05:36.179 --> 01:05:38.880
You know, he's fabulous, but I'm just distracted by how

1610
01:05:38.880 --> 01:05:40.320
incredibly...

1611
01:05:40.380 --> 01:05:44.760
Don't forget how Hugh Walters was dressed as Roncible.

1612
01:05:44.820 --> 01:05:46.079
But even then, you're right.

1613
01:05:46.139 --> 01:05:47.579
They had very solid shoulders.

1614
01:05:47.639 --> 01:05:48.659
Yeah, yeah, no.

1615
01:05:48.780 --> 01:05:49.619
These people are shoulderless.

1616
01:05:49.679 --> 01:05:52.320
It's really terrible And then finally, the investigator turns up

1617
01:05:52.320 --> 01:05:54.840
and seems to be wearing a sort of brass judge's wig.

1618
01:05:54.960 --> 01:05:58.860
So like maybe it was a day off. a judge, you know.

1619
01:06:00.179 --> 01:06:01.019
Maybe it was a bad day.

1620
01:06:01.260 --> 01:06:04.079
Richard, what's your Jenny later?

1621
01:06:04.139 --> 01:06:07.380
My puzzling choice has to go to one of my heroes, as Nathan just

1622
01:06:07.380 --> 01:06:09.659
did then, because I know that how much he really does love Mr

1623
01:06:09.659 --> 01:06:10.619
Rutchison.

1624
01:06:10.679 --> 01:06:14.039
My puzzling thing is, is poor old Tristram Carey, you?

1625
01:06:14.099 --> 01:06:15.480
I always loved and everything he's done.

1626
01:06:15.539 --> 01:06:18.480
And just the score for the mutants is honestly the weakest point

1627
01:06:18.480 --> 01:06:20.099
for me in an otherwise pretty good season.

1628
01:06:20.579 --> 01:06:23.219
Dunk, dunk, dunk, dunk, dunk.

1629
01:06:23.280 --> 01:06:24.719
As they fall down the stairs.

1630
01:06:24.780 --> 01:06:28.500
It's, look, it's been a series of very much a wild experimentation

1631
01:06:28.500 --> 01:06:33.659
and that doesn't always end up successfully, does it, for the, for

1632
01:06:33.659 --> 01:06:35.159
the viewer or the, you don't think so?

1633
01:06:35.219 --> 01:06:37.800
I think it's the difficult 2nd album. you know what I mean?

1634
01:06:37.860 --> 01:06:40.440
I think they get season 8 pretty right.

1635
01:06:40.500 --> 01:06:43.500
It's a reboot of the show season nine. what do we do now?

1636
01:06:43.559 --> 01:06:46.260
Ratings are more successful this time round though, weren't they?

1637
01:06:46.320 --> 01:06:48.659
Bratings are doing very well around the tens.

1638
01:06:48.719 --> 01:06:51.659
Yeah, ratings were constantly in the high 9s with quite a few

1639
01:06:51.659 --> 01:06:52.980
episodes breaking the 10s as well.

1640
01:06:53.039 --> 01:06:55.619
I think it's enjoyable and iconic, and I think that'll be even

1641
01:06:55.619 --> 01:06:56.760
more so next year.

1642
01:06:56.820 --> 01:07:01.139
But I think maybe this is weaker than last year.

1643
01:07:01.440 --> 01:07:03.059
Great.

1644
01:07:03.119 --> 01:07:04.920
Well, you know, it's quite funny.

1645
01:07:04.980 --> 01:07:07.860
My Jenny Laird Award relates to the mutants as well.

1646
01:07:07.920 --> 01:07:11.219
He's saying this to listen, are covered in glitter. covered

1647
01:07:11.219 --> 01:07:12.300
English, actually.

1648
01:07:12.360 --> 01:07:14.340
So it's a mutant trifecta.

1649
01:07:14.460 --> 01:07:17.280
It's getting all... pink one under your left eye.

1650
01:07:17.579 --> 01:07:18.360
This is true, listener.

1651
01:07:18.420 --> 01:07:20.400
And a gold one just near your nostril there.

1652
01:07:20.460 --> 01:07:22.380
It's like, what's a beauty box?

1653
01:07:22.440 --> 01:07:22.800
It is.

1654
01:07:23.219 --> 01:07:27.000
Now, well, I was just going to say, you know, this season is

1655
01:07:27.000 --> 01:07:30.539
filled with strong female characters.

1656
01:07:30.599 --> 01:07:34.559
You've got Anat, you've got 3rd Officer Blythe, you've got Ruth

1657
01:07:34.559 --> 01:07:36.119
Ingram, you've got Galea.

1658
01:07:36.179 --> 01:07:38.940
You've even got in the curse of Paladin.

1659
01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:41.820
Alpha Centauri, who is a gender queer character.

1660
01:07:41.880 --> 01:07:42.659
She does...

1661
01:07:42.659 --> 01:07:45.659
She's actually one of the Denver. 1st progressive, gender queer

1662
01:07:45.659 --> 01:07:46.199
characters, yes.

1663
01:07:46.440 --> 01:07:48.599
Coming with its own toys.

1664
01:07:48.659 --> 01:07:53.340
At the end, the ambassador from Earth, who is the chairperson of

1665
01:07:53.340 --> 01:07:56.099
the whole committee is a woman.

1666
01:07:56.159 --> 01:07:58.739
A fabulous...

1667
01:07:58.739 --> 01:07:59.400
Amazonia.

1668
01:07:59.460 --> 01:08:02.400
You know, she doesn't she doesn't have anything to do in the plot

1669
01:08:02.400 --> 01:08:05.460
but she is still a woman in a position of power.

1670
01:08:05.460 --> 01:08:09.659
On an admittedly backward planet where they've said only women of

1671
01:08:09.659 --> 01:08:10.980
role birth can enter the throne room.

1672
01:08:11.039 --> 01:08:13.079
Well, see more of that later with Poland.

1673
01:08:13.199 --> 01:08:17.699
So my Jenny Led War for most puzzling creative choices, where are

1674
01:08:17.699 --> 01:08:19.260
the women in the mutants?

1675
01:08:22.319 --> 01:08:23.760
Ding-dong.

1676
01:08:23.819 --> 01:08:27.180
There are no female characters apart from Joe. There are no female

1677
01:08:27.180 --> 01:08:27.720
characters.

1678
01:08:27.779 --> 01:08:32.579
I think there may be some background women, but there are.

1679
01:08:32.640 --> 01:08:37.319
There are some like people in Chinese people and extras.

1680
01:08:37.380 --> 01:08:37.979
Do you know what I mean?

1681
01:08:38.039 --> 01:08:40.020
They're doing a conference type thing, yeah.

1682
01:08:40.079 --> 01:08:43.079
There's another guard apart from cotton is black.

1683
01:08:43.140 --> 01:08:43.680
Yeah.

1684
01:08:43.680 --> 01:08:47.579
Yeah, so there is some there is some effort in that... isn't that

1685
01:08:47.579 --> 01:08:48.180
outrageous?

1686
01:08:48.239 --> 01:08:50.819
I think, as I say, there are some background salonians, maybe with

1687
01:08:50.819 --> 01:08:54.420
one or 2 lines. but no characters, if you like.

1688
01:08:54.479 --> 01:08:58.500
There are female extras, but there are no female characters aside

1689
01:08:58.500 --> 01:09:00.300
from Joe. That's so boring.

1690
01:09:00.359 --> 01:09:04.260
And, you know, any of the sporting characters could have been

1691
01:09:04.260 --> 01:09:04.560
women.

1692
01:09:04.619 --> 01:09:06.600
Yeah, if they...

1693
01:09:06.600 --> 01:09:08.819
It does explain with the flatness of it.

1694
01:09:08.880 --> 01:09:11.699
Yeah, if they were worried about the implications of kinkiness as

1695
01:09:11.699 --> 01:09:13.260
they were with colony in space.

1696
01:09:13.319 --> 01:09:14.819
You know, they could have made Sondergard a woman.

1697
01:09:14.880 --> 01:09:16.319
The marshal.

1698
01:09:16.380 --> 01:09:19.500
Well, that would have been...

1699
01:09:19.619 --> 01:09:22.319
Remember, the head of cereals didn't like the idea of kinky women

1700
01:09:22.319 --> 01:09:24.840
which is any woman who is not virtuous.

1701
01:09:25.560 --> 01:09:27.479
Yeah, well, pretty much.

1702
01:09:27.539 --> 01:09:28.680
Look at Susan Germis.

1703
01:09:29.340 --> 01:09:32.819
Yeah, that's why that's why Morgan wasn't a woman. okay.

1704
01:09:32.880 --> 01:09:35.939
So that's my, that's my Jenny Wad for puzzling creative choice.

1705
01:09:35.939 --> 01:09:36.899
That's a good one.

1706
01:09:36.960 --> 01:09:40.680
Well, we'll have to see if Bob Baker and Dave Martin improve on

1707
01:09:40.680 --> 01:09:40.979
that score.

1708
01:09:41.039 --> 01:09:42.539
We shall see.

1709
01:09:42.720 --> 01:09:45.180
We don't know what's under Omegus Frock.

1710
01:09:45.180 --> 01:09:46.140
We've got no idea.

1711
01:09:46.199 --> 01:09:48.779
Picks, picks of the month.

1712
01:09:48.840 --> 01:09:51.180
I had two, but I'm going to just have one.

1713
01:09:51.239 --> 01:09:53.640
I'm going to save one. next month.

1714
01:09:53.699 --> 01:09:55.140
And my big of the week.

1715
01:09:55.199 --> 01:09:59.279
I am contractually obliged to mention Philip Xander for every

1716
01:09:59.279 --> 01:10:00.359
single podcast episode.

1717
01:10:00.420 --> 01:10:01.380
This is true.

1718
01:10:01.439 --> 01:10:02.640
And Stephen Wood.

1719
01:10:02.699 --> 01:10:03.960
Yes.

1720
01:10:04.020 --> 01:10:05.579
Oh, hello, Stephen Wood.

1721
01:10:05.640 --> 01:10:05.880
Yes.

1722
01:10:05.939 --> 01:10:06.300
Yes.

1723
01:10:06.359 --> 01:10:06.899
Oh, yes.

1724
01:10:07.439 --> 01:10:07.800
Yeah, no, no.

1725
01:10:08.220 --> 01:10:08.939
We liked it.

1726
01:10:09.000 --> 01:10:09.479
Well we do.

1727
01:10:09.539 --> 01:10:13.859
But especially in that three-quarter profile, short he's got on

1728
01:10:13.859 --> 01:10:15.119
his page height.

1729
01:10:17.220 --> 01:10:23.460
But so Sandifer has just wrapped up Tardis Rudatorum, which was

1730
01:10:23.460 --> 01:10:28.260
his flight through entirety, he's been through Doctor Who.

1731
01:10:28.979 --> 01:10:31.439
Yeah, including some of the novels and stuff from the wilderness

1732
01:10:31.439 --> 01:10:31.920
years.

1733
01:10:31.979 --> 01:10:33.359
And it's been really interesting.

1734
01:10:33.420 --> 01:10:35.159
It's been really fun and insightful.

1735
01:10:35.220 --> 01:10:38.699
And he's been doing the River song stories out of order, you know

1736
01:10:38.699 --> 01:10:42.359
because the River song stories are sort of out of order, you know

1737
01:10:42.359 --> 01:10:43.319
in the show.

1738
01:10:43.380 --> 01:10:47.220
And so the final one that was left that was published just last

1739
01:10:47.220 --> 01:10:50.579
month, was the Forest of the Dead.

1740
01:10:50.640 --> 01:10:51.899
It was the last one that he had to do.

1741
01:10:51.960 --> 01:10:55.979
And instead of a review or an essay about Forest of the Dead.

1742
01:10:56.100 --> 01:11:02.579
What he did instead was a 100,000 word blog post, chronicling the

1743
01:11:02.579 --> 01:11:07.020
entire history of Doctor Who, everything he's learned from the

1744
01:11:07.020 --> 01:11:07.680
entire blog.

1745
01:11:07.800 --> 01:11:12.479
Now, just to give you an idea of how long 100,000 words is, pride

1746
01:11:12.479 --> 01:11:14.880
and prejudice is 120,000 words.

1747
01:11:14.939 --> 01:11:21.960
So it's a novel length blog entry, and it is just one of the most

1748
01:11:21.960 --> 01:11:25.020
you know, sorry, it's just one of the most concise and brilliant

1749
01:11:25.020 --> 01:11:27.119
descriptions of the history of Doctor Who.

1750
01:11:27.180 --> 01:11:28.319
Well, do you know what I mean?

1751
01:11:28.319 --> 01:11:32.640
Compared to... compared to us. compared to about time.

1752
01:11:32.699 --> 01:11:34.500
Do you know what I mean compared to the blog itself?

1753
01:11:34.560 --> 01:11:38.520
It's only 2000 words a year of Doctor Who.

1754
01:11:38.579 --> 01:11:41.100
It's really, really good.

1755
01:11:41.159 --> 01:11:43.079
It's really, you know?

1756
01:11:43.199 --> 01:11:43.680
Have you read it?

1757
01:11:43.739 --> 01:11:44.220
Yes.

1758
01:11:44.279 --> 01:11:44.880
Yeah.

1759
01:11:44.939 --> 01:11:48.119
I need to have a job and everything.

1760
01:11:48.180 --> 01:11:52.380
I actually, it took me 2 days because I have a job and everything

1761
01:11:52.380 --> 01:11:56.100
but I did stay up really late, you know, one night to, which was

1762
01:11:56.100 --> 01:11:57.180
not reflected in your performance.

1763
01:11:57.239 --> 01:11:59.699
I was terrific at work then the next day.

1764
01:11:59.760 --> 01:12:01.079
I really recommend it.

1765
01:12:01.140 --> 01:12:02.399
I'll put a link to it in the show now.

1766
01:12:02.460 --> 01:12:02.880
Thank you.

1767
01:12:02.939 --> 01:12:04.199
I'm actually gonna go and read that now.

1768
01:12:04.260 --> 01:12:05.760
I shall go and read that now.

1769
01:12:05.819 --> 01:12:09.060
Oh, well, I'm going to be really exciting and different and

1770
01:12:09.060 --> 01:12:12.420
unusual again and say, come and read the target novels because I'd

1771
01:12:12.420 --> 01:12:13.079
never say anything new.

1772
01:12:13.140 --> 01:12:15.840
I really, really enjoyed sea devils.

1773
01:12:15.899 --> 01:12:20.880
I even enjoyed Dave the Daleks, but Cursive Paladin by Mr. Hales

1774
01:12:20.880 --> 01:12:23.220
is much better than the televised version.

1775
01:12:23.279 --> 01:12:25.560
It actually carries it all through and it's quicker.

1776
01:12:25.619 --> 01:12:27.659
It's quicker to read it.

1777
01:12:27.720 --> 01:12:28.920
No, it really is.

1778
01:12:28.979 --> 01:12:31.920
Look, you get a different take on each one, but I won't say

1779
01:12:31.920 --> 01:12:33.779
anymore because we've gone on forever.

1780
01:12:33.840 --> 01:12:38.520
Almost 100,000 words, but I really like my pick for this season

1781
01:12:38.520 --> 01:12:41.159
would be the Curse of Paladin Noel, and I'm surprised to hear

1782
01:12:41.159 --> 01:12:41.939
myself say it.

1783
01:12:42.000 --> 01:12:43.500
So, Can I have a quick little read?

1784
01:12:43.560 --> 01:12:44.699
I'm sure you can find it somewhere.

1785
01:12:45.300 --> 01:12:50.579
My pick of the month is related to something I posted on our

1786
01:12:50.579 --> 01:12:56.640
Facebook page a few weeks ago, which is real-time pictures have

1787
01:12:56.640 --> 01:13:00.000
now been rebranded as time travel TV and they are putting their

1788
01:13:00.000 --> 01:13:05.340
back catalogue, particularly of myth makers interviews with Doctor

1789
01:13:05.340 --> 01:13:10.020
Who stars and writers and directors and so on on their website

1790
01:13:10.020 --> 01:13:15.479
available to buy as DVDs or download to own. as video on demand.

1791
01:13:15.539 --> 01:13:19.079
Treasure in your own video lounge for eternity.

1792
01:13:19.140 --> 01:13:24.539
They actually have a 45 minute interview with Robert Sloman

1793
01:13:25.079 --> 01:13:29.760
talking about his work on the Damon. the Time Monsters, the Green

1794
01:13:29.760 --> 01:13:31.079
Death, and Planet of the Spiders.

1795
01:13:31.140 --> 01:13:32.220
Told you he was good.

1796
01:13:32.279 --> 01:13:37.020
He also talks about why he didn't return to Doctor Who after...

1797
01:13:37.979 --> 01:13:41.279
I don't think anyone, I don't think anyone would deny that

1798
01:13:41.279 --> 01:13:43.500
probably the Green Death and Planet of the Spiders are the 2 best

1799
01:13:43.500 --> 01:13:44.220
scripts he worked on.

1800
01:13:44.279 --> 01:13:45.960
I think Green Best, right?

1801
01:13:46.020 --> 01:13:46.439
Oh good.

1802
01:13:46.500 --> 01:13:48.119
No, there aren't the other three.

1803
01:13:48.720 --> 01:13:52.739
But yeah, this was conducted 2 years before his death.

1804
01:13:52.800 --> 01:13:55.319
He died in 2005.

1805
01:13:55.439 --> 01:13:56.880
This was conducted in 2003.

1806
01:13:57.000 --> 01:13:59.220
Bugger, we could have had him writing for the new series.

1807
01:13:59.279 --> 01:14:03.000
So yeah, that's my that's my recommendation.

1808
01:14:03.060 --> 01:14:04.979
I mean, there's lots of lovely titles on there.

1809
01:14:05.039 --> 01:14:08.640
But that one... that one really caught my eye because, you know

1810
01:14:08.640 --> 01:14:11.760
because his scripts aren't are so polarising, really.

1811
01:14:11.880 --> 01:14:13.800
Are they downloads?

1812
01:14:13.800 --> 01:14:14.279
What are they?

1813
01:14:14.340 --> 01:14:18.720
So they're available as video on demand from Vimeo. the video

1814
01:14:18.720 --> 01:14:24.239
sharing service, and each of the myth makers are available to

1815
01:14:24.239 --> 01:14:26.760
download or stream to own.

1816
01:14:26.819 --> 01:14:29.640
So sorry, they're available for $9 US.

1817
01:14:29.699 --> 01:14:32.399
They're also available to rent for half that price for a 48 hour

1818
01:14:32.399 --> 01:14:32.699
period.

1819
01:14:32.819 --> 01:14:35.279
The price of a mid-range mocktail.

1820
01:14:35.340 --> 01:14:36.300
Yes, that's right.

1821
01:14:36.300 --> 01:14:38.579
And a comfort of the bar of your choice.

1822
01:14:38.640 --> 01:14:43.439
Or you can have, you can get really, really piss faced at home and

1823
01:14:43.439 --> 01:14:44.699
watch them for the same price.

1824
01:14:44.819 --> 01:14:46.680
Take your iPad to the pump.

1825
01:14:46.739 --> 01:14:50.579
Yeah, no, because you get confused after a couple and use it as a

1826
01:14:50.579 --> 01:14:50.939
coaster.

1827
01:14:51.000 --> 01:14:52.319
Yeah, you've done that.

1828
01:14:52.380 --> 01:14:53.340
It's a trouble.

1829
01:14:53.399 --> 01:14:54.060
Who hasn't done it?

1830
01:14:54.060 --> 01:14:55.439
I almost do it in 2001.

1831
01:14:55.619 --> 01:14:56.939
You can see them.

1832
01:15:13.560 --> 01:15:17.460
Oh, well, I'm just glad that people told you that.

1833
01:15:17.520 --> 01:15:20.579
Right, I think that's, uh, all time we have today.

1834
01:15:20.640 --> 01:15:25.199
We will be back in two weeks, although, Richard, you'll be taking

1835
01:15:25.260 --> 01:15:26.460
have to go to Cambridge again, yeah.

1836
01:15:26.520 --> 01:15:27.659
You have to go to Cambridge again.

1837
01:15:27.720 --> 01:15:29.279
Perhaps you'll get to see Liz.

1838
01:15:29.340 --> 01:15:31.619
No one else gets to see Liz.

1839
01:15:31.680 --> 01:15:34.859
Todd will be back with us as we make our way through Doctor Who's

1840
01:15:34.859 --> 01:15:36.000
10th anniversary season.

1841
01:15:36.060 --> 01:15:37.680
Oh, gosh, you're gonna have a big time.

1842
01:15:37.739 --> 01:15:41.220
Yeah, the 3 doctors, Carnival of Monsters, Frontier in Space

1843
01:15:41.220 --> 01:15:45.420
Planet of the Daleks, and the Green Death, where there's some

1844
01:15:45.420 --> 01:15:48.539
really quite emotional times coming up in Doctor Who.

1845
01:15:48.600 --> 01:15:51.779
And yeah, we find out that things are never stable for too long.

1846
01:15:51.840 --> 01:15:55.560
So before we go, don't forget, uh, if you come to us newly on the

1847
01:15:55.560 --> 01:16:01.979
podcast, you can easily find our past podcasts about the 1st 2

1848
01:16:01.979 --> 01:16:02.460
doctors.

1849
01:16:02.520 --> 01:16:04.680
We've even index them by story.

1850
01:16:04.739 --> 01:16:07.260
So if you want to particularly hear what we said about the space

1851
01:16:07.260 --> 01:16:09.779
pirates...

1852
01:16:09.779 --> 01:16:11.100
Everybody is waiting to hear that.

1853
01:16:11.100 --> 01:16:15.720
Or the celestial toy maker because let's face it, sometimes you

1854
01:16:15.720 --> 01:16:17.399
can't just run your fingers down a blackboard.

1855
01:16:17.460 --> 01:16:20.220
Uh, you can listen to them there.

1856
01:16:20.279 --> 01:16:24.539
You can also find us on Facebook, flight through entirety, and on

1857
01:16:24.539 --> 01:16:26.939
Twitter at FTE podcast.

1858
01:16:27.000 --> 01:16:30.239
If you've enjoyed listening to us, please drop us a line, send us

1859
01:16:30.239 --> 01:16:31.680
a comment, review us on iTunes.

1860
01:16:31.739 --> 01:16:32.699
We really like that.

1861
01:16:32.760 --> 01:16:36.359
And until then, thank you very much for listening and good night.

1862
01:16:36.420 --> 01:16:37.500
Good night.

1863
01:16:37.560 --> 01:16:37.979
Thank you.

1864
01:16:41.039 --> 01:16:44.640
That was flat through entirety with Nathan Bottomley, Brendan

1865
01:16:44.640 --> 01:16:45.779
Jones, and Richard Stone.

1866
01:16:45.840 --> 01:16:49.979
This episode, France and Trouncing Bouncing Busty, was reported on

1867
01:16:49.979 --> 01:16:51.359
Sunday, 8th of March.

1868
01:16:51.420 --> 01:16:54.420
The next episode will be released on April 12th.

1869
01:16:54.479 --> 01:16:57.420
I tried to feed a rabbit to a bowl constrictor once.

1870
01:16:57.479 --> 01:16:59.880
It complained that there was a hare in its room.

1871
01:17:05.939 --> 01:17:09.000
That was flight through entirety with Nathan Bottle?

1872
01:17:09.119 --> 01:17:10.319
That was...

1873
01:17:10.319 --> 01:17:11.880
That was Flight through Entirety.

1874
01:17:11.939 --> 01:17:15.359
That was Flight Through Entirety with Nathan Bottomley, Brendan

1875
01:17:15.359 --> 01:17:16.260
Jones, and Richard Stone.

1876
01:17:16.319 --> 01:17:20.579
This episode, Katie's bum was recorded on March the...

1877
01:17:21.600 --> 01:17:24.840
It's not going to be called Katie's phone.

1878
01:17:24.960 --> 01:17:25.680
No, no, no, no.

1879
01:17:25.680 --> 01:17:30.000
I think you should record it when we're not here.

1880
01:17:30.359 --> 01:17:32.939
I think you should do the one we're watching.