WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:41:05 1 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:50.340 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast now only available on audio just as a way to hide our faces. 2 00:00:50.579 --> 00:00:52.380 I'm Nathan. 3 00:00:52.439 --> 00:00:53.820 I'm Brendan. 4 00:00:53.880 --> 00:01:00.420 I'm Todd, and I'm a graveyard full of castoffs horsemans with something the Briggs proud of in there. 5 00:01:03.479 --> 00:01:08.519 Well, last week, Stephen Moffat was doing his best to try and make death scary. 6 00:01:08.579 --> 00:01:14.879 This week, he's going to have much more success with Clara, the doctor, and their wacky new neighbour, Missy. 7 00:01:14.939 --> 00:01:21.000 Let's see what happens when 1000000000s of newly angry cybermen join them in death in heaven. 8 00:01:27.060 --> 00:01:29.280 So the doctors are lady now, apparently. 9 00:01:29.340 --> 00:01:30.180 Oh. 10 00:01:30.239 --> 00:01:31.560 Hmm, it's a thing. 11 00:01:31.799 --> 00:01:33.180 What? 12 00:01:33.180 --> 00:01:37.319 So, Clara, we get the opening credit scene. 13 00:01:37.379 --> 00:01:39.299 Yeah, we don't have a reprise. 14 00:01:39.359 --> 00:01:44.519 She just announces she's the doctor and then we go into the titles with her attack eyebrows. 15 00:01:44.640 --> 00:01:46.739 Does she just announce it? 16 00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:49.859 Does she actually, is it Clara versus a cyberman? 17 00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:52.500 Yeah, she says, you know, I'm really important to you. 18 00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:55.319 I'm the doctor or something Yeah, yeah. 19 00:01:55.379 --> 00:01:57.659 Didn't she do a frock rehearsal on the Orient Express? 20 00:01:57.959 --> 00:02:02.700 Wasn't she saying, no, forgive me. she saying I'm the doctor on to that lot as well? 21 00:02:02.760 --> 00:02:04.319 No, I think she's a bit pushy. 22 00:02:04.379 --> 00:02:11.280 So she does get to play the doctor in Flatline rather than Orin Express because the doctor's in the TARDIS. 23 00:02:11.340 --> 00:02:12.960 Professional podcaster here. 24 00:02:14.879 --> 00:02:16.560 Oh really? 25 00:02:16.620 --> 00:02:17.879 I just strolled my eyes. 26 00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:21.419 Honestly, I just sit there going, oh, please. 27 00:02:21.479 --> 00:02:29.819 And now we've put her eyes in the credits and she's before, you know, Peter, and this is all going to, like, be resolved in about 2 minutes. 28 00:02:29.879 --> 00:02:30.659 It's a set piece. 29 00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:31.620 It is. 30 00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:34.139 Like, I think a set piece is kind of okay though. 31 00:02:34.199 --> 00:02:37.500 I'm not saying that it's not. 32 00:02:37.560 --> 00:02:39.000 I like this episode. 33 00:02:39.060 --> 00:02:40.500 I'm going to put my cards on the table here. 34 00:02:40.560 --> 00:02:41.939 I think it's 8 out of 10. 35 00:02:42.120 --> 00:02:43.919 Yes, listeners, I'm going to all my tropes. 36 00:02:43.979 --> 00:02:58.620 But there are certain things that I do not like as much in this episode of other moments, and that I find is a set piece which, you know, is done for an effect, and I just kind of sit there going, thanks, but let's move on. 37 00:02:58.680 --> 00:03:04.080 The thing is, I would argue that it's not debunked until cyber Danny comes and gets her. 38 00:03:04.139 --> 00:03:06.060 Because I was watching. 39 00:03:06.180 --> 00:03:12.120 I remember watching that at the time and going, oh, well, they could. 40 00:03:12.120 --> 00:03:12.960 How do you mean? 41 00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:13.560 She could be. 42 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:19.979 She could have a little locket with like Chancellor Flavia's ashes in it. the flyer. 43 00:03:20.039 --> 00:03:27.240 I, like, I don't think I ever thought it was really going to happen, but it was credible to me that it could have been. 44 00:03:27.419 --> 00:03:30.240 Todd is giving me the narrowest vision. 45 00:03:30.360 --> 00:03:35.219 Todd and I are narrowing our eyes visibly at you, Brandon, for the listener at home. 46 00:03:36.060 --> 00:03:37.979 I'm not very clever. 47 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:41.219 Fair enough, but I just don't get it because it seems so obvious. 48 00:03:41.340 --> 00:03:43.259 I just don't I just don't buy it. 49 00:03:43.319 --> 00:03:45.300 Yeah, I didn't buy it. 50 00:03:45.300 --> 00:03:46.800 To the point that I didn't actually notice it. 51 00:03:46.860 --> 00:03:53.219 So I think that we've already had a lady master revealed. 52 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:54.719 How do we feel about that? 53 00:03:54.840 --> 00:03:56.699 Oh, no, we will talk about that. 54 00:03:56.759 --> 00:04:22.319 We already had a ladymaster last episode and so the lady doctor is kind of like the next obvious step, but I think it is perhaps just there so that it can be in the next time on Doctor Who trailer. which, you know, putting interesting things in the next time the Doctor Who trailer is not something that every showrunner has done and I think it's probably not a bad idea. 55 00:04:22.379 --> 00:04:27.360 Yeah, and I think, and I have to go from memory here because the next time trailers are not on the Blu-ray. 56 00:04:27.420 --> 00:04:36.300 I think the line from that that makes it in there is Clara Oswald never existed, which is a great line to put in that trailer. 57 00:04:36.360 --> 00:04:41.519 And the thing is, for a bluff to stop yourself being murdered by cybermen, it makes sense. 58 00:04:41.699 --> 00:04:43.560 That's very interesting. 59 00:04:43.620 --> 00:04:49.800 Both of you, because I have to say, I had the Z to minor Todd experience for this. 60 00:04:49.860 --> 00:04:51.899 I had the anti-matter black sludge. 61 00:04:51.959 --> 00:04:54.300 I really didn't think it was as good as I first saw it. 62 00:04:54.360 --> 00:05:01.620 It was a lot of tricks and tropes, and a lot of really underused cast members, and the Danny Pink, are we up to that yet? 63 00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:04.199 I might keep my power dry for that one. 64 00:05:04.259 --> 00:05:09.300 But this is just a whole bag of very glossy and very impressive. 65 00:05:09.300 --> 00:05:15.779 Yes, it's a gorgeous way to appease, or to please, I should say, transatlantic viewers and all the rest of it. 66 00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:18.779 I just felt there was a lot of very late. 67 00:05:18.839 --> 00:05:24.120 I don't want to say lazy, but Mr. Moffatt's very quick solutions when he's got 2 other things to get out this week. 68 00:05:24.180 --> 00:05:27.180 Yeah, I am the other Todd for this episode. 69 00:05:27.240 --> 00:05:27.779 Yes. 70 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:46.019 Look, I think that it is less successful than last week, and I think there's probably less there than initially meets the eye, and I have to say that I'm not super on board with the resolution of the soldier thing that we've been doing all season. 71 00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:47.459 Are we up to that yet? 72 00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:50.639 Well, yeah, it will come towards the end. 73 00:05:51.120 --> 00:05:58.139 But there's a lot of fun to be had still, I think, and most of that is with Michelle Gomez. 74 00:05:58.199 --> 00:06:00.240 It's all with Michelle. 75 00:06:00.300 --> 00:06:10.019 And in fact, I would actually say the heart and soul of this episode and the life of this episode does sit squarely on her firm Hebridesian shoulder pads. 76 00:06:10.019 --> 00:06:18.660 And really is that the right way to finish a seasoned relying on the one villain, but I look at the demons. 77 00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:24.779 Oh, look at any of the other fantastic classic master series and they were the some of their parts. 78 00:06:24.839 --> 00:06:26.160 Whereas this one. 79 00:06:26.220 --> 00:06:29.699 Well, let's not go into the parts in the bins and the parts in the tin cans. 80 00:06:29.759 --> 00:06:31.019 But, well, maybe we should. 81 00:06:31.079 --> 00:06:33.180 It didn't feel right. 82 00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:35.220 I did like the darkness of the end. 83 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:43.259 I did like there was no day or sex machina at the end at all, but I also felt... 84 00:06:43.259 --> 00:06:45.480 Again, how quickly did you write this? 85 00:06:46.259 --> 00:06:48.540 Yeah, yeah. 86 00:06:48.600 --> 00:07:06.300 I mean, look, he's clearly having an enormous amount of fun with Missy and Missy's hugely successful, and we said last week that she gets a good, solid, proper murder in each episode, and here she gets two, and the murder of Osgood is spectacular. 87 00:07:06.360 --> 00:07:07.680 Yeah. 88 00:07:07.740 --> 00:07:09.240 Um, yeah. 89 00:07:09.300 --> 00:07:11.339 It's spectacular. 90 00:07:11.399 --> 00:07:12.959 I guess it is spectacular. 91 00:07:13.019 --> 00:07:25.860 Like, it's something that I didn't think they would go with because you've got Osgood and Kate Stewart there at the beginning of the episode taking control of the situation, getting everybody onto the plane as a set piece. 92 00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:35.160 Wiki dialogue and then, obviously, the doctor's taken upstairs to be president of everything, more on that in a second. 93 00:07:35.160 --> 00:07:44.100 But having her talk to Osgood, I always felt that Osgood was sort of set up much like a Sergeant Benton type character that you love and nothing bad is going to happen. 94 00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:53.639 So as that scene sort of unfolds and also too, the dialogue with the doctor before that, with him, with Osgood sort of inviting her on board. 95 00:07:53.699 --> 00:07:57.600 You just know things are not going to Linda with a Y moment, is that? 96 00:07:57.660 --> 00:07:58.800 Yes, exactly, Nathan. 97 00:07:58.860 --> 00:08:12.540 And so when that actually happens, like it's just like gut wrenching and I don't think he necessarily ever expected to write a Zygon 2 parter next season to bring back the character. 98 00:08:12.600 --> 00:08:17.399 So I actually think the fan reaction to her death, which I think was actually quite considerable. 99 00:08:17.519 --> 00:08:24.360 Like, then sent his mind ticking, you know, how do we bring this character back because she is so good. 100 00:08:24.420 --> 00:08:31.259 But the fact that Missy is the queen of evil, as she says herself and is completely nuts. 101 00:08:31.319 --> 00:08:35.399 Bananas, completely bananas, you know, comment from the galleries. 102 00:08:36.299 --> 00:08:47.279 It makes that sequence, you realise like, you know, she's taking no prisoners and it's not this thing of the classic series where we're too scared to kill anybody. 103 00:08:47.340 --> 00:08:48.059 Do you know what I mean? 104 00:08:48.120 --> 00:08:48.659 Yeah. 105 00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:57.720 Yeah, I think Moffatt said that the trouble with the master is that they risk being cuddly because they're entertaining and so they have to be murderous. 106 00:08:57.779 --> 00:09:06.059 It's funny you should mention that about the Zygon 2 part because he kills off Osgood because he did already have the Zygon story in mind. 107 00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:14.279 And in that story, he wanted the audience to doubt whether it's Human Osgood or whether it's Zion Osgood or whether it matters. 108 00:09:14.340 --> 00:09:16.980 And he was like in order to do that, I need to kill one of them. 109 00:09:17.039 --> 00:09:17.700 Right. 110 00:09:17.759 --> 00:09:19.320 And then he worked backwards from there. 111 00:09:19.620 --> 00:09:21.659 That's cool, yeah. 112 00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:28.860 Ingrid Oliver and Samuel Anderson, by the way, did not know their characters were going to be killed off before they turned up the read-through. 113 00:09:28.919 --> 00:09:31.320 And Moffatt, it was interviewed at the read through. 114 00:09:31.379 --> 00:09:32.220 I think the Doctor Who X-ray. 115 00:09:32.279 --> 00:09:34.080 He says to the interviewer, there's Ingrid and Sam. 116 00:09:34.139 --> 00:09:36.360 I've just killed them, so I better go say hello. 117 00:09:37.019 --> 00:09:48.299 Um, But Capaldi and Rachel, Tallalei knew that Osgood was coming back next season, but weren't allowed to tell Ingrid Oliver. 118 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:53.399 So, but you know, Ingrid and Sam, we're both like, we know our contracts are up. 119 00:09:53.460 --> 00:09:56.639 So and it's like, oh, what a shame, et cetera, et cetera. 120 00:09:56.700 --> 00:10:00.899 I really love that entrance from Kate and Osgood. 121 00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:12.960 And I know there are members of the paddle who are here and who are not here who are not fond of Gemma Redgrave's performance, but I think she is having so much fun in that 1st scene with the cyberhead. 122 00:10:13.019 --> 00:10:17.580 Hi, Kate Stewart, divorcee, mother of two, King Gardner. 123 00:10:19.620 --> 00:10:26.039 She drops the cyberhead from the invasion or something just to make the point. 124 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:28.200 And in Moffatt script. 125 00:10:28.259 --> 00:10:38.100 It is a more modern cyberhead, but he's like, he describes the damage to it so people don't think it's handles and during the production designs of phase. 126 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:39.960 They're just like, well what's this a reference to? 127 00:10:40.019 --> 00:10:42.240 And he's like, oh, it's a reference to the invasion like coming down. 128 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:44.700 We can make one of those, Stephen. 129 00:10:44.759 --> 00:10:48.059 Van Staten had one in the in the museum. 130 00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:53.159 That actually raises a good point if I'm going to keep the graveyard metaphors going. 131 00:10:53.220 --> 00:10:55.980 I've got a question for everyone, bit on the higher meta level. 132 00:10:56.039 --> 00:10:57.480 What is the point of this plot? 133 00:10:57.539 --> 00:11:09.600 Messi is raising an army of corpses to be cyberfitted out, probably the most brilliant concept the master's ever had, the most complex, as a present for a Scotch egg boyfriend? 134 00:11:09.659 --> 00:11:11.279 Yeah, it doesn't... 135 00:11:11.639 --> 00:11:12.600 That doesn't work. 136 00:11:12.659 --> 00:11:20.519 And I think the people who say that Doctor Who should rein it in and be less weird and less over the top and less dramatic, they're almost always wrong. 137 00:11:20.580 --> 00:11:23.580 But here she's raising everyone who's ever lived. 138 00:11:23.639 --> 00:11:45.299 They've all been stored in her cyber drive, you know, the, in the nether sphere, and their bodies are being converted or whatever is left of their bodies is being converted into cyberman, and there's going to be 1000s of them, and she sort of talks as if she's taking over the planet, but then she's kind of raising an army for the doctor to make some point. 139 00:11:45.299 --> 00:11:49.740 So for the master to be the master, there's got to be a meta above that. 140 00:11:49.799 --> 00:11:51.539 There has to be a plan within a plan. 141 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:55.559 There always was, even if it's just a pathetic box with chameleon behind the console. 142 00:11:55.620 --> 00:12:00.000 But I'm not getting where this was going to go as a plot device. 143 00:12:00.059 --> 00:12:01.980 Is she just saying you and I are alike. 144 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:03.960 Yes, I think so, but yeah. 145 00:12:04.019 --> 00:12:15.840 But I think also the other thing, and it is lost in the denouement, and I think a line of dialogue would have fixed it, is at this stage, she has only converted the dead into cybermen. 146 00:12:15.899 --> 00:12:18.480 The next round of rain will also kill the living. 147 00:12:18.539 --> 00:12:26.879 So she's kind of going, if you accept this army, no one else has to die because these people are already dead and they can be useful for you in liberating the Dalek slave camps. 148 00:12:26.940 --> 00:12:34.080 She's like, I'm giving you this army of people who are already dead so that you can enact peace on the universe. 149 00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:36.179 Which... 150 00:12:36.179 --> 00:12:37.139 Okay, that is clever. 151 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:37.559 Yeah. 152 00:12:37.620 --> 00:12:39.899 You kind of go, the doctor will never go for that. 153 00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:48.120 Oh, except maybe the doctor who just tells people that everything's going to be fine, even though they're about to die inside it are like, that doctor might. 154 00:12:48.179 --> 00:12:52.679 And so I think it's effective in that way, but there's that line of dialogue missing. 155 00:12:52.740 --> 00:12:55.860 And I think also there's a line of dialogue that's missing in that. 156 00:12:55.919 --> 00:12:59.879 In Moffatt's conception, don't cremate me was always fake. 157 00:12:59.940 --> 00:13:02.220 Yes, but it doesn't come across. 158 00:13:02.279 --> 00:13:06.539 Yeah, because he doesn't want people to cremate themselves. 159 00:13:06.600 --> 00:13:11.279 He wants to get those bodies in the 3W Institute so that he can experiment on them. 160 00:13:11.340 --> 00:13:19.860 And there is something about Moffat's conception of the Cyberman, which is different from Russell's and different from Kit Pedlers, which is they are corpses in armour. 161 00:13:19.919 --> 00:13:20.519 Yes. 162 00:13:20.519 --> 00:13:20.940 Yeah. 163 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:23.879 And that's very clear from the Pandorica Opens. 164 00:13:23.940 --> 00:13:27.840 Remember when the face of the sidemen opens and there's a skull inside and stuff like that. 165 00:13:27.899 --> 00:13:35.039 So his isn't, you know, the brain and the shredded nervous system inside a casing. 166 00:13:35.100 --> 00:13:37.019 It's just a dead body in a casing. 167 00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:39.659 And so his cybermen were always that. 168 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:49.860 And so it makes sense and it's a massive scale thing, but it doesn't seem to be, look, the master's planes are never really anything. are they? 169 00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:54.899 Because when you think about what John Sims master does at the end of series three. 170 00:13:54.960 --> 00:14:00.899 He's taking over the world, why, you know, www.launch the missiles. 171 00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:01.919 Yeah, yeah. 172 00:14:01.980 --> 00:14:05.879 It all seems to be sort of rather pointless in the end and maybe that's the point of the master. 173 00:14:06.179 --> 00:14:19.620 In the same way that the doctor is a flaneur and at about for no other purpose than his own greed, for knowledge, self-advancements, perhaps, yes, there is the mirror of that. 174 00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:21.480 That's what he says. 175 00:14:21.539 --> 00:14:24.120 I mean, this is our conclusion is what is the doctor? 176 00:14:24.179 --> 00:14:25.200 Is he a good man or not? 177 00:14:25.259 --> 00:14:27.539 And his conclusion is, I'm not a good man. 178 00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:28.379 I'm not a bad man. 179 00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:31.320 I'm just an idiot with a box who wanders around seeing things. 180 00:14:31.379 --> 00:14:36.360 He's a scholar with tech, and we know that unbound they do things like the Manhattan Project. 181 00:14:36.419 --> 00:14:37.980 So... 182 00:14:38.039 --> 00:14:47.100 The doctor has always been a cypher for Doctor Who has always been a cypher for what is going on in the here and now, culturally, politically and indeed scientifically. 183 00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:54.360 So perhaps there are comments that Mr. Moffat was making on those grounds, but I think it's really just don't trust Scotch bints. 184 00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:57.600 Yes. 185 00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:04.919 The other thing is that we get the soldier thing. 186 00:15:04.980 --> 00:15:07.679 Okay, so the doctor again is very rude about soldiers. 187 00:15:07.740 --> 00:15:12.299 He calls General Ahmed Manscout all the way through. 188 00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:18.120 He is dismissive, but then there's the brigadier as the kind of big exception. 189 00:15:18.179 --> 00:15:32.519 And I'm not sure what's happening with the soldier thing, but it seems to me that the doctor makes a speech about Danny at the end of the episode, how love isn't a feeling or an emotion. 190 00:15:32.580 --> 00:15:41.460 It's a promise, and that Danny, like his fellow soldiers, has promised that we can all sleep safely, that we will be safe. 191 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:45.240 And that seems to be where that plot's leading. 192 00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:48.480 The doctor discovers that he's been wrong about soldiers all along. 193 00:15:48.539 --> 00:15:55.379 And so he ends by saluting the brigadier and ends by showing some respect or some regard for Danny. 194 00:15:55.500 --> 00:16:13.019 And I think it's also a degree of self-forgiveness because Danny identifies the doctor as an officer in this, again, when we have Danny's flashback, after he realises what he's done, the dialogue we hear is his commanding officer, barking at him, is their place secure? 195 00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:25.139 Danny report, like, you know, and it's underlining that the doctor as an officer is asking Danny to do something that he's not willing to do himself. 196 00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:30.059 I mentioned last week how this story deals with themes of forgiveness. 197 00:16:30.059 --> 00:16:35.039 And I think the doctor, because we've just had the time war in Day of the Doctor. 198 00:16:35.100 --> 00:16:35.820 Yeah. 199 00:16:35.820 --> 00:16:42.299 I think the doctor is still forgiving himself for his part in that, and that's been a part of this incarnation. 200 00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:49.500 And that's part of his animosity towards Danny is that he actually recognises something of himself. 201 00:16:49.620 --> 00:16:53.100 And it's something that has led him to question whether he's a good man. 202 00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:59.399 And when does he 1st ask that question when he's just gotten involved with the soldier who's fighting Daleks, Journey Blue. 203 00:16:59.460 --> 00:16:59.879 Yeah. 204 00:16:59.879 --> 00:17:00.419 You know? 205 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:10.319 But it's another thing of Doctor Who handling a very, very serious issue, so it has to paint it in very, very broad strokes, like the motivation of a soldier is to keep everyone safe. 206 00:17:10.380 --> 00:17:13.920 Yeah, you know, which is Dan Dan the soldier man in. 207 00:17:14.099 --> 00:17:15.119 Yes, exactly. 208 00:17:15.180 --> 00:17:17.160 So that comes full circle. 209 00:17:17.220 --> 00:17:25.980 Simon earlier this season was a little bit worried about the way soldiers were being presented and kind of hostile to the idea that they might be presented in a bad light. 210 00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:28.380 I'm the opposite, I think. 211 00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:42.839 I think this is a period in time where, you know, both England and Australia and America as well, I guess, but they were always a bit there, is trying to big up the role of soldier and make it something that we respect. 212 00:17:42.900 --> 00:17:52.440 It's, you know, a period in time where we start using the Australian term diggers to describe people not who were soldiers historically, but who are soldiers now. 213 00:17:52.500 --> 00:17:55.980 And, you know, we send soldiers to Afghanistan. 214 00:17:56.039 --> 00:18:07.259 And in the week of recording, we've discovered some of the terrible, terrible things that led to, and it was never really about keeping us safe in our beds. 215 00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:08.400 That's not what that's about. 216 00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:22.200 And so I think that this kind of fails in some way. that what Moffatt's trying to say about soldiers just never coheres around any particular idea. 217 00:18:22.259 --> 00:18:27.539 There's just a thing that comes up and then we drop next year and I don't know what it was for. 218 00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:42.960 Obviously, listening to your discussions on FTA throughout the year and certainly back in the caretaker and how I think it's, I do think it's poorly handled. 219 00:18:44.339 --> 00:18:52.019 And here I think, like when the doctor arrives towards the end and Danny's there and he says PE very quietly. 220 00:18:52.019 --> 00:19:01.619 And then they have their conversation that they have, which I think is extraordinary active by both of them, and the doctor has to face up to how he is. 221 00:19:01.740 --> 00:19:05.940 Like Danny has pulled him up on him being the officer and that sort of thing. 222 00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:17.640 And then you get the whole saluting of the cyber brig, which is set up quite early on through dialogue where Kate says that to the doctor that the brigadier only wanted to be saluted once. 223 00:19:17.940 --> 00:19:23.579 And then even at the end where he says, we'll make a maths teacher out of PE yet. 224 00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:26.400 Like, the brigadier became a math teacher. 225 00:19:26.460 --> 00:19:32.160 Yeah, you know, and he's given it Danny away back from death. 226 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:42.180 And is that his way of apologising and seeing the good in Danny and coming to terms with his own feelings about soldiers and that sort of thing? 227 00:19:42.299 --> 00:19:55.440 I think there's actually a lot in here that points to the doctors, I don't want to say redemption, but certainly coming realisation that he has been on the wrong track with his attitude towards soldiers and to Danny. 228 00:19:55.500 --> 00:20:03.359 So yes, it's not fully successful, but I think within the episode itself, I saw this for the 1st time. 229 00:20:03.420 --> 00:20:20.880 Like I did not like this negative soldier thing the 1st time through, but I actually saw an arc in this season and I actually saw resolutions here and I had the Todd experience with referencing myself. 230 00:20:21.180 --> 00:20:22.140 You're a me. 231 00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:23.759 Thank you. 232 00:20:23.819 --> 00:20:25.140 I'm not repeating. 233 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:30.599 I had the experience of I detested. the cyberbrick thing. detested it. 234 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:34.980 It brought a tear to my eye in this episode because I bought into it. 235 00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:36.539 I saw the picture of him. 236 00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:45.000 Who else is going to save his daughter when she gets sucked out of that plane in that just awful moment where I just sat there going, 0 my god, I can't believe they've done that. 237 00:20:45.059 --> 00:20:45.480 Yeah. 238 00:20:45.480 --> 00:21:01.559 And knowing that Nicholas Courtney never really got any other, well, he was in the Sarah Jane Adventures for an episode, but the brigadier was never brought back or with his passing, perhaps an acknowledged the way you wanted it to, I actually really bought into it this time. 239 00:21:01.619 --> 00:21:02.759 And it's there. 240 00:21:02.819 --> 00:21:04.500 Like it's never going to change. 241 00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:11.279 So you either fight against it, like I fought against Delta and the Bannerman for all these years or you all through time. 242 00:21:11.339 --> 00:21:12.839 Or you lean into it. 243 00:21:12.900 --> 00:21:15.480 And you find the good in it. 244 00:21:15.539 --> 00:21:17.160 And that's what I think I found. 245 00:21:17.220 --> 00:21:19.559 I don't know whether I've answered your question. 246 00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:27.180 I think you're definitely right identifying that this is a source of redemption for the doctor, the current doctor, and it's that thing. 247 00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:32.640 I posted it to the thread last night because I was so struck by how well written that exchange was. 248 00:21:32.700 --> 00:21:43.259 But it's like there's an exchange where the doctor is not going to activate Danny's inhibitor because he says pain is a gift. 249 00:21:43.319 --> 00:21:49.500 This is an important thing, without it, we can't feel the hurt that we inflict. 250 00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:59.579 And Danny says, are you telling me seriously that you can do that because he's been playing it, as if he doesn't care about the consequences of what he does to people. 251 00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:02.279 And he says, yes, of course I know that. 252 00:22:02.339 --> 00:22:04.259 Of course I know what I'm doing to people. 253 00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:06.420 And Danny says, well, shame on you. 254 00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:07.559 Like, that's worse. 255 00:22:07.619 --> 00:22:20.519 If you didn't know how you were coming across, if you didn't know what you were doing to people's lives, that would be bad, but the fact that you do know, and that you feel the pain that you inflict, and you do it anyway, is a problem. 256 00:22:20.579 --> 00:22:25.380 Just his acknowledgement that he does know that this isn't just him being clueless. 257 00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:26.880 He knows what he's doing. 258 00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:29.279 I think it's extraordinary. 259 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:32.279 Didn't know what you just said? 260 00:22:32.339 --> 00:22:33.000 Yeah, yeah. 261 00:22:33.059 --> 00:22:34.440 I've just come to that conclusion. 262 00:22:34.500 --> 00:22:35.160 Yeah. 263 00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:49.140 It's also interesting with the promise of the soldier, as Danny puts it, because we know that the impetus for Danny becoming a soldier is Dan the soldier man little figure who doesn't have a weapon and goes out and helps people. 264 00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:54.119 And when Danny's trying to tell Clara, also in listen, that he did important work as a soldier. 265 00:22:54.180 --> 00:22:55.500 Well, he's talking about the welding. 266 00:22:55.559 --> 00:23:00.420 So it's like he became a soldier to help people and he killed an innocent child. 267 00:23:00.779 --> 00:23:09.480 And now he can actually live to that promise of a soldier by making sure people sleep safe in their beds. 268 00:23:09.539 --> 00:23:21.660 So I think Moffat isn't necessarily talking about the evil that can happen in war from soldiers of, quote unquote, outside. 269 00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:28.500 But he's talking about perhaps soldiers didn't become soldiers because they wanted to kill. 270 00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:29.460 They wanted to help. 271 00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:38.640 And I think possibly it's inconclusive because he's kind of going possibly not his place and not Doctor Who's place to say it's good or it's bad. 272 00:23:38.700 --> 00:23:42.059 Yeah, but it's to say this is a reality that people are facing. 273 00:23:42.299 --> 00:23:46.859 And I think there is something very, very powerful in that. 274 00:23:46.859 --> 00:23:50.339 And I think we're left feeling uncomfortable and perhaps we ought to be. 275 00:23:50.400 --> 00:23:54.180 And, you know, Richard, you mentioned the transatlantic response. 276 00:23:54.180 --> 00:24:07.740 And of course, the discussion about veterans and support for them when they, when they come back from war is a big topic in America, it's become a bigger topic in Australia in the last 20 years as well. 277 00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:16.079 And yeah, I think I think possibly if we had come to some sort of conclusion on that point in this episode, it would have been weaker for it, I think. 278 00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:28.200 I think that I have a problem, which is that I do want things to be pat, like, and I think that there is a place for just exploring a set of ideas and not necessarily coming to a conclusion. 279 00:24:28.259 --> 00:24:35.880 I think maybe Doctor Who should err on the side of taking a position, but sometimes it doesn't, and I guess that's fine. 280 00:24:35.940 --> 00:24:43.859 We're dealing with concepts that the original series only ever brushed against by happenstance coincidence. 281 00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:51.059 And, you know, and in fact, didn't even acknowledge, and then by the 80s, although Andrew Cartmel. 282 00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:51.720 Yeah. 283 00:24:51.779 --> 00:24:55.079 I mean, I guess the big thing is the end of Silurians, isn't it? 284 00:24:55.140 --> 00:24:58.500 where the brigadier does a very... he does a very bad thing. 285 00:24:58.559 --> 00:25:01.559 And the doctor acknowledges that, but the show needs to go on. 286 00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:03.420 Yeah, other critics have said too. 287 00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:11.339 I mean, this is really, was it Xander, who said this should have been the end of the doctor should have just retired to a cottage and made muffins with Delia Smith or something. 288 00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:12.839 Grown begonias. 289 00:25:12.900 --> 00:25:15.779 Yeah, well. actually joined the British rocket group. 290 00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:17.220 That could have been interesting. 291 00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:23.220 The funny thing is, I'm also thinking of the censorites and, you know, yes, the human soldiers in that. 292 00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:26.400 And Planet of the Daleks of all things. 293 00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:31.319 And it's discussion of war and morality and courage and... 294 00:25:31.380 --> 00:25:38.400 I mean, I don't have any conclusion to draw on that, but it's just, it's just interesting when Doctor Who brings up those points, like bringing them up in the sensor, right? 295 00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:53.940 The conclusion we have to make, and the censorites did it, and so did Solurians, is these events are too large for moralising or for capitulating against, or indeed, for a finale for, for a dio 6 Macuna end. 296 00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:55.259 These are what they are. 297 00:25:55.319 --> 00:25:58.259 These things happen and what is our response to this. 298 00:25:58.319 --> 00:26:16.440 I think, but what makes this episode, maybe I'm having an N Universe Todd experience again now because it feels to me that, yes, it's actually that moment and you highlighted it between Danny, Tinfoil, Danny and the doctor, where there is this exchange for, what can you do about it? 299 00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:19.319 You just do your best in the moment. yes, you carry this. 300 00:26:19.559 --> 00:26:21.599 Yes, you carry this. 301 00:26:21.660 --> 00:26:24.720 What did the master do that was actually all that awful? 302 00:26:24.779 --> 00:26:26.400 Well, yeah. 303 00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:32.279 Well, yes, but, you know, and sort of tormented people in the afterlife. 304 00:26:32.339 --> 00:26:34.859 Like, I think the afterlife is hell. 305 00:26:34.859 --> 00:26:36.180 Well, but I've got a whole list myself. 306 00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:53.039 I'm actually more upset that Sanjeev Bucks and Chris Addison didn't get more work because I love Chris Addison's civilisation, BBC Radio 4 series, if you've ever heard it with Jeffrey Watts' face from the Douglas Adams radio series. 307 00:26:53.099 --> 00:26:56.099 It's one of the funniest things on radio you'll ever hear. 308 00:26:56.160 --> 00:26:58.079 Addison is superb and he's perfect with them. 309 00:26:58.140 --> 00:26:58.619 He just gone. 310 00:26:58.619 --> 00:27:04.079 And Sanji, he's such a damn fan. came to the point of it's Captain Scarlett. 311 00:27:04.140 --> 00:27:05.700 That is so funny. 312 00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:08.819 Oh my god, I love that exchange. all the way. 313 00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:09.599 Yes, yeah, yeah. 314 00:27:09.660 --> 00:27:10.619 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 315 00:27:10.619 --> 00:27:13.859 And the doctor does the foxtrot with Sylvia Anderson. 316 00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:26.819 And as you know, I got to meet Sylvia and I have a massive place in my heart for Sylvia and all the things that were unfortunately, you know, went against her in life and career and I love that woman so much and I was just a little moment again for us. 317 00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:30.180 And again, Mr Moffatt does perfect little moments for all of us. 318 00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:31.619 And I'm not dissing it. 319 00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:35.940 I mean the whole Air Force one stuff was Bruce Willis level. entertainment. 320 00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:41.460 Maybe it's just that from Doctor Who and thinking back to the stories we've spoken of from the classic series. 321 00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:44.940 We expect a moral conclusion. 322 00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:45.720 Yeah. 323 00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:47.400 And that's what we're not really given. 324 00:27:47.460 --> 00:27:47.940 No. 325 00:27:56.640 --> 00:28:10.859 So we get to see a fair amount of of Michelle, this episode, and we did last episode too, and I just think we said last week that it's her and Delgado vying for top role. 326 00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:14.339 I think she very clearly is better than Delgado. 327 00:28:14.579 --> 00:28:16.440 She's better served. 328 00:28:16.500 --> 00:28:17.819 Yeah, yeah. 329 00:28:17.880 --> 00:28:18.539 I think that's fair. 330 00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:20.880 And because television's different and all of that. 331 00:28:20.940 --> 00:28:23.160 I think Delgado would have got away with most of that. 332 00:28:23.220 --> 00:28:24.119 No. 333 00:28:24.180 --> 00:28:25.740 Well, Delgado gets... 334 00:28:26.759 --> 00:28:44.339 But what he doesn't get to do is that murder, that fantastic thing, where you know that once Missy tells Osgood, that she's going to kill her in a minute, that that's going to happen. 335 00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:47.400 Like there's no way that that's not going to happen. 336 00:28:47.460 --> 00:28:56.099 And Moffatt, who is an awful, dreadful person. says, like, it makes her say all of these things. 337 00:28:56.160 --> 00:29:03.119 It's so, and like, when the doctor sort of says something about Osgood comes in and sort of knows as it's happened. 338 00:29:03.180 --> 00:29:05.099 Like, I think he finds the glasses, doesn't he? 339 00:29:05.160 --> 00:29:08.519 And she says, well, like, don't be so selfish. 340 00:29:08.579 --> 00:29:10.440 I have to, you know, I'll miss her too. 341 00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:11.700 You know. 342 00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:16.859 And then she wants to go off in search of other friends of his to kind of play with. 343 00:29:16.920 --> 00:29:18.240 It's great. 344 00:29:18.299 --> 00:29:21.900 And what makes that even worse is in the original draft. 345 00:29:22.259 --> 00:29:31.619 That scene with Missy threatening her was intercut with the doctor and Kate because the doctor has just said all the time in space? 346 00:29:32.460 --> 00:29:45.660 to Osgood. and what Rachel Talale thought was that Jenna's contract was up and Stephen Moffatt was sending her the 2nd episode scene by scene to build up suspense. 347 00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:47.759 And Rachel thought, oh, God, Ingrid. 348 00:29:47.819 --> 00:29:49.079 It's going to be Ingrid next year. 349 00:29:49.140 --> 00:29:49.740 Ingrid. 350 00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:51.720 I love Ingrid and then... 351 00:29:51.720 --> 00:29:52.200 Bang. 352 00:29:52.200 --> 00:30:03.000 Because meanwhile, up in the meeting room on the plane, the doctor basically comes in and says to Kate, I've just offered your scientific advisor a job and Kate says, she's very valuable and very well paid. 353 00:30:03.059 --> 00:30:04.019 So good luck with that. 354 00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:09.119 And so they both have a few lines of how much they love Osgood. 355 00:30:09.180 --> 00:30:11.940 And then you cut back to her being disintegrated. 356 00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:13.140 Yeah, it's so good. 357 00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:18.960 It's just so terrific and it is absolutely something Delgado would never have got the opportunity to do. 358 00:30:19.019 --> 00:30:28.799 And Moffatt is super conscious that he has to make Missy evil, that the risk is that the master is so much fun that we think. 359 00:30:28.859 --> 00:30:31.140 I sure would have insisted upon that on... 360 00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:31.559 That's right. 361 00:30:31.619 --> 00:30:32.700 A few deaths every episode. 362 00:30:32.819 --> 00:30:35.099 But Nathan, I totally agree with you. 363 00:30:35.160 --> 00:30:41.400 And I think the fact that that all builds, and you get the whole reveals about the woman in the shop. 364 00:30:41.460 --> 00:30:44.880 Yeah, and the advert in deep breath. 365 00:30:44.940 --> 00:30:45.660 Yeah. 366 00:30:45.660 --> 00:30:53.759 And Michelle and Peter are just so extraordinary in that moment because doesn't Clara call him on the phone? 367 00:30:53.819 --> 00:30:54.420 Yes. 368 00:30:54.420 --> 00:30:58.980 That's, and then having Kate just sucked out of a thing. 369 00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:03.839 Like that whole sequence for that character of Missy is just amazing. 370 00:31:03.900 --> 00:31:15.299 She just, and she's totally, like, she's laughing and, you know, oh, just having the time of her life, like, because every, the pain has just, like, been ripped apart around her and everything. 371 00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:16.799 I'm sped away. 372 00:31:16.859 --> 00:31:22.799 Like she holds these episodes together and brings something that we never had before from this character. 373 00:31:22.859 --> 00:31:27.599 I was a little bit disappointed with a master turning up at the end of SpyFall part one. 374 00:31:27.660 --> 00:31:29.519 And I thought it was too soon. 375 00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:32.400 And I thought there wasn't enough of a buildup. 376 00:31:32.460 --> 00:31:35.700 Also a complete negation of character arc. 377 00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:39.119 Well, we get there and I think that's terrible or boring at least. 378 00:31:39.299 --> 00:31:41.220 Well, yeah. 379 00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:55.140 But I think that Moffat was completely unable to prevent himself from playing with that particular action figure. you know, and that's why she's just back at the beginning of next year. 380 00:31:55.200 --> 00:32:01.440 But also, you know, he did wait, three full series. before bringing back the character. 381 00:32:01.500 --> 00:32:02.400 Oh, yeah, yeah. 382 00:32:02.460 --> 00:32:09.960 But then he has her back in the very next story after the Christmas special because he just can't leave her alone because she's so magnificently great. 383 00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:11.640 It's a proper pertly year thing to do. 384 00:32:11.700 --> 00:32:12.539 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 385 00:32:12.599 --> 00:32:13.079 That's true. 386 00:32:13.140 --> 00:32:14.640 But can he get it for other things? 387 00:32:14.700 --> 00:32:17.279 Like is she suddenly going off to do Sabrina or something like that? 388 00:32:17.339 --> 00:32:18.359 I don't know. 389 00:32:18.420 --> 00:32:26.700 Because it's funny how she's in these 2 episodes and the 1st episodes of next season and then we wait quite some time before she's back. 390 00:32:26.759 --> 00:32:30.539 And of course, we have that year off for Peter to have a surgery. 391 00:32:31.019 --> 00:32:36.960 I mean, what that does mean is we're Matt Smith is robbed of having a master. 392 00:32:37.019 --> 00:32:45.359 And I remember at the time there were all these rumours that they were going to cast an older character actor with Charles Dance being heavily in the rumour mill. 393 00:32:45.420 --> 00:32:49.319 I don't know if there was ever any basis of that, but of course he was quite big in Game of Thrones at the time. 394 00:32:49.380 --> 00:32:49.920 Yeah. 395 00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:56.220 But again, here with Michelle Gomez, you have the thing of casting opposite your doctor. 396 00:32:56.279 --> 00:33:03.240 What's interesting about that is the character description originally has her as a young woman in her 20s. 397 00:33:03.299 --> 00:33:04.019 Oh, really? 398 00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:08.039 And Michelle Gomez was offered the part of Miss Delfox. 399 00:33:08.099 --> 00:33:09.960 In Time Heist. 400 00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:10.680 Okay. 401 00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:11.819 And was unavailable. 402 00:33:11.940 --> 00:33:13.380 Great. 403 00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:18.180 And pretty much she thought, oh, God, you know, I've had to turn down Doctor Who. 404 00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:19.680 What if they don't ask me to do anything again? 405 00:33:19.740 --> 00:33:21.900 So she emailed Stephen and she said, look, I'm really sorry. 406 00:33:21.960 --> 00:33:22.680 It was a great part. 407 00:33:22.740 --> 00:33:28.859 I'm just already booked for this thing, but if you ever need a razor cheekboned villainess for anything. 408 00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:33.000 And Moffatt went, Missy doesn't have to be in her 20s. 409 00:33:33.059 --> 00:33:35.640 Well, he went, she's got that smile. 410 00:33:35.700 --> 00:33:39.900 There's that smile and there's a tiny snaggle teeth, like one teeth has a little point on it. 411 00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:46.799 I just think like her whole look is perfect and she's so like she is just so tremendous. 412 00:33:46.859 --> 00:33:52.259 Like, I think that she manages to be the opposite of Capoldi in a sort of fantastic way. 413 00:33:52.319 --> 00:34:01.680 So David Tennant has John Sim, who is his rival star of a science fiction TV show, which is on at the time. 414 00:34:02.099 --> 00:34:09.119 And they're both really gobby and they're both sort of really fun and funny and fast and everything's very verbal. 415 00:34:09.179 --> 00:34:11.639 And so they are very similar in many ways. 416 00:34:11.699 --> 00:34:15.000 Whereas, of course, Missy is the doctor's opposite. 417 00:34:15.059 --> 00:34:17.639 Like a perfectly crafted opposite. 418 00:34:17.699 --> 00:34:19.619 She's mercurial. 419 00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:24.780 She's, she's, um, bananas as she keeps. 420 00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:28.559 And she's much more fun than him, and that's always the risk, isn't it? 421 00:34:28.619 --> 00:34:31.800 She's perfect, just absolutely perfect, I think. 422 00:34:31.860 --> 00:34:36.840 And I think the visual 2 of her coming in is Mary Poppins. for that last segment. 423 00:34:36.900 --> 00:34:39.059 There's also just icing on the cake. 424 00:34:39.179 --> 00:34:39.840 It's just delicious. 425 00:34:39.900 --> 00:34:42.000 So it's very confusing what happens to her. 426 00:34:42.059 --> 00:34:43.619 She's shot dead by the cyberman. 427 00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:50.159 So the Cyberman makes the doctor not have to make the decision to save Clara from making the thing. 428 00:34:50.219 --> 00:34:55.019 Although spoiler alert, it's going to turn out to be an emergency temporal shift or whatever. 429 00:34:55.079 --> 00:34:55.679 Always. 430 00:34:55.739 --> 00:34:58.260 You don't bring a character back just to kill them offline. 431 00:34:58.320 --> 00:35:00.179 No, no, that's true. don't resent that at all. 432 00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:07.139 I don't think you have to kill the master off each time he or she appears so that they can just have mysteriously got out of it next time. 433 00:35:07.260 --> 00:35:09.239 That started in the 80s. 434 00:35:09.300 --> 00:35:09.960 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 435 00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:12.000 It's absolutely Ainley, isn't it? 436 00:35:12.059 --> 00:35:12.539 Yes. 437 00:35:12.900 --> 00:35:14.760 There's the title. 438 00:35:14.820 --> 00:35:16.860 Absolutely. 439 00:35:17.460 --> 00:35:21.960 And you have to keep them coming back, so it's absolutely anly returned. 440 00:35:33.300 --> 00:35:41.940 I think this episode actually deals deftly with having a really very downbeat ending and a kind of depressing end to the season. 441 00:35:42.059 --> 00:35:45.420 Yeah, it doesn't really give you a pop, does it? 442 00:35:45.480 --> 00:35:48.780 No, like, I mean, Danny is dead? 443 00:35:48.840 --> 00:35:49.440 Yep. 444 00:35:49.500 --> 00:35:52.019 The doctor doesn't find Galliframe. 445 00:35:52.079 --> 00:35:54.599 He and Clara are parting their ways. 446 00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:56.099 And still lying to one another. 447 00:35:57.300 --> 00:35:59.760 It's all quite downbeat. 448 00:35:59.820 --> 00:36:03.300 Do we often have that in a series finale? 449 00:36:03.360 --> 00:36:09.239 Yes, we have horrible things happen, like, you know, to Donna or whatever, but then there's then moments of where we're going to go to. 450 00:36:09.300 --> 00:36:09.960 I don't know. 451 00:36:10.019 --> 00:36:11.699 It's it's this series. 452 00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:15.000 Like, it's an uneasiness. we don't have a full conclusion. 453 00:36:15.059 --> 00:36:17.460 We've got these dark things happening. 454 00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:22.320 Paul Danny, what happens to Danny is one of the darkest things, I think, in the history of the show in terms of a character, right? 455 00:36:22.380 --> 00:36:26.280 And the relationship with Clara and the doctor and how headstrong they are. 456 00:36:26.340 --> 00:36:37.320 It's, I can see why this series, I'm, it may not be liked by a lot of people, but I think it's quite an extraordinary series when you watch all the different threads through. 457 00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:40.079 And then, yeah, and they don't get it all correct. 458 00:36:40.139 --> 00:36:49.800 It's imperfect, but I really enjoy watching it and seeing new things and picking up and on what we're talking about today. 459 00:36:49.860 --> 00:36:54.360 And as well as the extraordinary performances throughout this episode. 460 00:36:54.420 --> 00:36:57.360 Like Samuel Anderson, I just kudos to him. 461 00:36:57.420 --> 00:36:58.679 I just think it's fantastic. 462 00:36:58.739 --> 00:37:02.039 He actually holds this season together as the anti-Missy, doesn't he? 463 00:37:02.099 --> 00:37:03.360 I think he's really good. 464 00:37:03.420 --> 00:37:11.099 I do think that turning him into a sort of stupid science fiction robot at the end of the episode is a problem after the realism of his death. 465 00:37:11.159 --> 00:37:11.820 Yeah it is. 466 00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:26.099 But I have, yeah, I have to say, like, given that he's limited to showing just the basic features of his face at that point, his performance is extraordinary and elevates, it's kind of funny. 467 00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:30.960 I remember at the time there were certain visuals in this I laughed at. 468 00:37:31.019 --> 00:37:35.760 Not because they looked cheap, but just out of context, they were silly. 469 00:37:35.820 --> 00:37:49.079 And one of them was cyber brig, which I never had an angry problem with, but I just thought Peter Capaldi staring at this I man and this sideman staring wistfully back at him. just made me laugh. 470 00:37:49.199 --> 00:37:54.420 And the other thing that made me laugh was Jenna Coleman hugging a cyberman. 471 00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:55.079 Yeah, yeah. 472 00:37:55.079 --> 00:37:57.420 This time I was totally into it. 473 00:37:57.480 --> 00:38:03.659 And I think it's possibly, I've only, I think before rewatching the season for the podcast, I've only watched it twice. 474 00:38:03.719 --> 00:38:05.880 So once on broadcast, once about a year later. 475 00:38:05.940 --> 00:38:16.019 And I think possibly my laughter at those were discomfort and not discomfort that it was bad ideas, but discomfort that it was kind of dark. 476 00:38:16.019 --> 00:38:18.539 But now I can sort of watch it and appreciate it. 477 00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:33.420 Something I really love about Jenna and Sam's performances in those bits are they're whispering to each other. you know, and there is just so much emotion there. 478 00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:44.699 And of course, so much pain from Samuel Anderson and something you mentioned last week, Nathan, that you thought, if Danny was going to die, it would be in some way Clara's fault. 479 00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:45.360 Yeah. 480 00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:51.719 But I think it not being her fault is even worse for them. you know? 481 00:38:51.780 --> 00:38:56.039 And there's that whole bit where Clara describes Danny's death as boring. 482 00:38:56.099 --> 00:38:59.519 And then when the doctor's falling out of the plane and Missy's watching it on TV. 483 00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:04.559 Missy says, oh, he's just going to be boring and go splat. 484 00:39:04.619 --> 00:39:10.139 So they both describe death as boring, but Clara's saying it because Danny was too good for that. 485 00:39:10.199 --> 00:39:16.260 And Missy saying it because she wants the doctor to have a really interesting death. 486 00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:17.400 Yeah, yeah. 487 00:39:17.460 --> 00:39:18.840 She accuses him of lacking style. 488 00:39:18.900 --> 00:39:19.800 Lacking style. 489 00:39:19.860 --> 00:39:24.960 And of course, it's the whole Roger Moore moment from Moonraker. 490 00:39:25.019 --> 00:39:28.559 And Stephen Moffatt said, of course it's Roger Moore from Moonraker. 491 00:39:28.619 --> 00:39:31.800 And then we have to say goodbye to Chris Addison, unfortunately. 492 00:39:31.860 --> 00:39:33.659 Permission to squeeze. 493 00:39:33.719 --> 00:39:35.219 Which was amazing. 494 00:39:44.280 --> 00:39:55.619 So I think that that ending is now is so bleak and so downbeat, but Moffat absolutely is aware of that and doesn't leave us with that. 495 00:39:55.860 --> 00:40:09.179 And remember, we said last week that this season is running late, so it's only a few weeks till Christmas, and I don't think, yeah, we can't understand it until we think about last Christmas. 496 00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:20.940 And so that's why Santa, who is Santa Claus, is able to break into the closing credits and reassure us all that everything's going to be all right. 497 00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:22.800 That's right, this went out in November. 498 00:40:22.860 --> 00:40:23.760 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 499 00:40:23.820 --> 00:40:26.219 So Santa actually stops the closing credits. 500 00:40:26.280 --> 00:40:29.460 Does his sort of thing saying, no, this is ridiculous. 501 00:40:29.519 --> 00:40:30.420 I can't end like this. 502 00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:31.139 This is terrible. 503 00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:36.179 And then we go back to the closing credits and see Santa, Nick Frost. 504 00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:40.019 Like, then we see his credit. and the rest of the credits go on. 505 00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:41.099 And I think that's brilliant. 506 00:40:41.159 --> 00:40:45.119 I think it's Moffatt is not ending the season here. 507 00:40:45.179 --> 00:40:49.980 This is kind of the cliffhanger where everything has gone wrong. 508 00:40:50.039 --> 00:40:50.820 Danny is dead. 509 00:40:50.940 --> 00:40:54.000 The doctor and Clara are never seeing one another again. 510 00:40:54.059 --> 00:41:04.380 They've both lost something that they thought they had, and they're both still lying to each other about it, and that will get fixed in the real season finale, which is last Christmas. 511 00:41:05.159 --> 00:41:07.320 Correct, Nathan. 512 00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:10.559 You can't watch this series without Last Christmas. 513 00:41:10.619 --> 00:41:13.559 That is actually the series finale. 514 00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:16.320 Back to what Brendan was saying. 515 00:41:16.380 --> 00:41:19.559 The doctor falling in the sky. 516 00:41:19.619 --> 00:41:22.619 The music at that point is just phenomenal. 517 00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:24.840 There's some just some great visuals. 518 00:41:24.900 --> 00:41:29.639 When they take off Danny's face plate, just that makeup on Samuel. 519 00:41:29.699 --> 00:41:30.300 Yeah. 520 00:41:30.300 --> 00:41:32.099 It's gorgeous, isn't it? 521 00:41:32.159 --> 00:41:34.320 And his eyes, he plays it all through his eyes. 522 00:41:34.380 --> 00:41:36.840 Like Billy Hartnell did, like all great actors do. 523 00:41:36.900 --> 00:41:38.519 Joan Crawford through the eyes. 524 00:41:38.699 --> 00:41:47.519 I think I'm just going over the one thing is that I just can't get over the performances by everyone in this episode. 525 00:41:47.579 --> 00:41:51.420 And the 1st time watching things through. 526 00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:54.119 You drawn to Michelle because she dominates the screen. 527 00:41:54.179 --> 00:42:05.460 You're drawn to Peter into Danny because they've got so much dialogue of the one person, by about halfway through the episode, who has very little to say after that point, except for few bits, is Jenna. 528 00:42:05.519 --> 00:42:14.639 And I watched her during all of their talking to each other about, you know, Mr. President and whatever. 529 00:42:14.699 --> 00:42:22.619 And she is just phenomenal in the looks that she gives, you know, the subtlety there. 530 00:42:22.679 --> 00:42:26.340 I just cannot underestimate how good I found her in this episode. 531 00:42:26.460 --> 00:42:31.320 She's got a big info dump quite early on too, which I was just saying, yeah, go for a girl, you know. 532 00:42:31.380 --> 00:42:41.340 But after that point, she's got her moments, but everybody else is sort of more to the fore, but just holding the cyberman, Danny, and just being there. 533 00:42:41.400 --> 00:42:43.019 She just is selling those scenes. 534 00:42:43.139 --> 00:42:50.460 I would recommend to all listen as if to go back and watch this and just watch her in that 2nd half of the episode, even with all the other stuff going around. 535 00:42:50.519 --> 00:42:53.159 I just think she is just incredible. 536 00:42:53.219 --> 00:42:54.539 Yes, I agree. 537 00:42:54.599 --> 00:42:59.579 I would like to say this, maybe this season is the adults, the grownups, mum and dad. 538 00:42:59.639 --> 00:43:08.699 Michelle and Peter doing their little thing over there and causing all these problems and making a mess because they can't resolve their relationship issues. 539 00:43:08.760 --> 00:43:09.960 It's really all it is. 540 00:43:10.019 --> 00:43:11.639 It's attention seeking on both of their parts. 541 00:43:11.699 --> 00:43:15.000 But, but it's about the kids. 542 00:43:15.059 --> 00:43:17.280 Danny and Clara. 543 00:43:17.340 --> 00:43:21.420 You just made me think, Todd before, that there is a resolution to this. 544 00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:33.239 There is a moral core, and it is about sacrifice, and it is about why have we just built how many 1000000 on the Senator for our own Australian Anzac history here in Sydney and Hyde Park. 545 00:43:33.300 --> 00:43:35.699 It's because of the notion of sacrifice. 546 00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:44.699 It's the reversal of, as a little boy, um, Stephen Moffatt, like us anyone in their 50s would have seen the, um, very popular at the time. 547 00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:47.099 Antoine de Saint, ex-upires Little Prince. 548 00:43:47.219 --> 00:43:52.980 So there was a film of that in the early 70s, which we all saw as children, and it's a book that's gone round and round. 549 00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:55.199 And of course, in this case, it's the anti-version of that. 550 00:43:55.260 --> 00:43:58.260 Danny's sacrifice is to say the little boy that died. 551 00:43:58.260 --> 00:44:14.280 And by that little boy, the little Afghani boys, is perhaps, you know, Danny's point of being alive now, and a good sacrifice must be made to resume this in the, in the, in a way that, um, stories like this, don't give us a resolution. 552 00:44:14.340 --> 00:44:16.980 That is the only point of hope at the end that we're left with this. 553 00:44:17.039 --> 00:44:18.300 Oh, that and Nick Frost. 554 00:44:18.719 --> 00:44:34.079 It's funny, isn't it, that last week the doctor said that he is the friend that Clara absolutely deserves, and she doesn't she doesn't kind of get Danny because he's too good for her in a way. 555 00:44:34.139 --> 00:44:35.159 Yeah. 556 00:44:35.219 --> 00:44:46.019 I do think, though, that closing scene in the cafe does have it does have a little spark of hope, even if this had been Jenna's last episode as originally intended. 557 00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:47.159 By the time they're filming. 558 00:44:47.219 --> 00:44:52.920 They've already decided she's staying for last Christmas, which, you know, that will be discussed when we get there. 559 00:44:52.980 --> 00:45:04.800 But when the doctor thinks that Clara and Danny are together and it's all worked out and when Clara thinks the doctor has found Gallifrey, they are so happy for each other. 560 00:45:04.860 --> 00:45:08.039 There's no snidiness. 561 00:45:08.099 --> 00:45:14.340 There's no the doctor baiting her about Danny or her baiting him about being king. 562 00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:15.780 Like, it's a genuine suggestion. 563 00:45:15.900 --> 00:45:21.960 You can go be king of the time, you know, and then they hug and their faces fall and he's right. 564 00:45:22.019 --> 00:45:24.119 It's a way of hiding your feelings. 565 00:45:24.179 --> 00:45:26.460 And, oh, I'm welling up now. 566 00:45:26.519 --> 00:45:31.260 Do you know, the hug is a that's a very television way of hiding your feelings, though. 567 00:45:31.320 --> 00:45:36.300 A TV writer says that because you get the over the shoulder shot of each character. 568 00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:39.960 So you can see what they really feel without the other character doing it. 569 00:45:40.019 --> 00:45:44.519 It's absolute old TV trick. and he's reinterpreting it here in a really good way I think. 570 00:45:44.579 --> 00:45:45.780 Yes, yeah. 571 00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:46.800 Oh, totally. 572 00:45:46.860 --> 00:45:52.380 And it's kind of like, if this had been Clara's last scene, it would have been downbeat, but it would have actually been okay. 573 00:45:52.500 --> 00:45:53.579 Yeah. 574 00:45:53.579 --> 00:45:54.179 You know? 575 00:45:54.239 --> 00:45:55.500 And... 576 00:45:55.500 --> 00:46:07.500 I would have felt sad about it, but it's not like pure devastation, like Tegan's last scene or even Donna. 577 00:46:07.559 --> 00:46:11.579 You know, Clara is still alive and she's helped Danny save this little boy. 578 00:46:11.639 --> 00:46:12.480 Yeah. 579 00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:23.760 She's moving on, but she's also giving the doctor some sort of closure to think that she's happy and everything's worked out for her so he can go on with his and move on himself. 580 00:46:23.880 --> 00:46:25.380 Because both of those are not real. 581 00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:26.699 That's the problem. 582 00:46:26.760 --> 00:46:54.420 Yeah, obviously Well, that's a depressing way to end the series, but not to worry. 583 00:46:54.480 --> 00:46:59.219 We'll be back next week to clear up all the mess with our Series 8 retrospective. 584 00:46:59.639 --> 00:47:18.000 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us on our website, FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our accounts on Facebook, Twitter, and Mastodon, as well as links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody Interterra, maximum power, and untitled Star Trek Project. 585 00:47:18.059 --> 00:47:21.780 Until next time, go be a king or something. 586 00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:22.980 A queen, whatever. 587 00:47:23.039 --> 00:47:24.599 So long as it makes you happy. 588 00:47:24.659 --> 00:47:26.820 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 589 00:47:26.880 --> 00:47:27.719 Good night. 590 00:47:27.780 --> 00:47:30.239 See you soon and keep digging for Britain. 591 00:47:30.300 --> 00:47:31.139 Good night. 592 00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:43.380 That was slight through entirety, starring Todd Bilby, Nathan Bottomley, Brenda, Jones, and Richard Stone. 593 00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:45.719 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. 594 00:47:45.780 --> 00:47:51.900 This episode, absolutely Ainley, was recorded on the 4th of June 2023 and released on the 2nd of July. 595 00:47:54.960 --> 00:48:09.239 As we near the end of our series 8 coverage, I'd like to thank everyone who joined us, Adam Richard, Adrian Poon, Fiona Tomney, Pete Lambert, Hannah Cooper, Paul Neil, Si Hart, Stephen B, Matthew Hounsell, and Kevin Bernard. 596 00:48:09.300 --> 00:48:10.380 We'll see you next week. 597 00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:14.699 Oh, bye. 598 00:48:14.820 --> 00:48:16.380 I think that's the end of that season. 599 00:48:16.440 --> 00:48:18.719 Oh, hope so. 600 00:48:18.900 --> 00:48:22.920 I'm going to give myself 5 seconds and if I can't remember what I was going to say. 601 00:48:22.980 --> 00:48:23.880 I'm just gonna move on. 602 00:48:24.900 --> 00:48:27.119 It was about Missy. 603 00:48:27.179 --> 00:48:28.860 She sings, hey, Missy. 604 00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:29.519 Casting. 605 00:48:29.579 --> 00:48:30.599 She does sing. 606 00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:32.760 She was originally called Misty, but it wasn't that. 607 00:48:32.820 --> 00:48:34.320 Misty, really? 608 00:48:34.380 --> 00:48:34.920 Misty. 609 00:48:34.980 --> 00:48:35.400 Really? 610 00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:36.059 Yeah, yeah. 611 00:48:36.179 --> 00:48:37.139 Oh, I'm glad they just go there. 612 00:48:37.980 --> 00:48:42.599 Was she mobile intelligent system interface or something? 613 00:48:42.659 --> 00:48:43.800 Yeah, yeah. 614 00:48:43.860 --> 00:48:45.480 MISI. 615 00:48:47.159 --> 00:48:49.320 Was it something in the group? 616 00:48:49.380 --> 00:48:49.800 Never mind. 617 00:48:49.860 --> 00:48:50.820 No, it's all right. 618 00:48:50.880 --> 00:48:51.960 Can't be a bit of tag. 619 00:48:52.019 --> 00:48:52.440 Tag. 620 00:48:52.500 --> 00:48:53.460 You'll think of it later. 621 00:48:53.519 --> 00:48:55.139 Yeah, that's right. 622 00:48:55.199 --> 00:48:56.159 When you're on their way home. 623 00:48:57.119 --> 00:48:58.800 And another thing. 624 00:48:58.860 --> 00:49:05.400 Well, we've talked about the reason Danny's death and what makes the story actually work. 625 00:49:05.460 --> 00:49:09.599 I do think it just, though, and it isn't very Moffatt. 626 00:49:09.659 --> 00:49:11.159 This isn't necessarily what you might want to keep. 627 00:49:11.159 --> 00:49:12.539 I just want to hear what you want to say. 628 00:49:12.659 --> 00:49:17.159 Mr. Moffat's way of putting everything together very quickly in a haphazard. 629 00:49:17.219 --> 00:49:21.119 All his toys in the box, shake it up, see what comes out when you tip it upside down. 630 00:49:21.719 --> 00:49:25.500 It is his style and when it works, it works brilliantly. 631 00:49:25.559 --> 00:49:28.920 You probably manage to convince me that it does work here. 632 00:49:28.980 --> 00:49:36.059 But the reviews at the time also said, even the Guardian, who's, and, you know, the Guardian UK is uniquely positive. 633 00:49:36.119 --> 00:49:36.960 Yeah, positive. 634 00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:46.500 Still, this one still came in for criticism because of the plot holes and inconsistencies and points of... 635 00:49:46.500 --> 00:49:48.599 Yeah, I mean, that's Mr. Moffat's style. 636 00:49:48.659 --> 00:49:54.840 I think that maybe all 3 Capaldi finales are pretty great. 637 00:49:54.900 --> 00:50:04.500 And I'm not sure about how bent because I haven't seen it since the, you know, the inevitable watching 12 months later when the blue race come out. 638 00:50:04.619 --> 00:50:09.780 And I'm keen to see, and I've obviously watched Heaven Sent just any number of times because it's magnificent. 639 00:50:09.840 --> 00:50:10.199 Yeah. 640 00:50:10.199 --> 00:50:13.559 And then the series 101 is great too. 641 00:50:13.619 --> 00:50:14.699 Like just incredible. 642 00:50:14.760 --> 00:50:17.159 They're all great, but they're all very dark. 643 00:50:17.219 --> 00:50:19.500 Even compared to the Matt Smith one. 644 00:50:19.559 --> 00:50:20.820 Yeah, yeah, it could be very dark. 645 00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:34.440 And so I can understand, it kind of leaves the audience, especially, I think, the general audience who aren't collecting the Blu-rays and the action figures and, you know, the Roger, Robert Terreleptal sculpture. 646 00:50:34.739 --> 00:50:37.920 Yeah, I think it could be the bad taste in the mouth. 647 00:50:37.980 --> 00:50:48.659 Something I was just thinking about with Danny's death is there's a big finish audio where missy jokes that she once killed a big finish audio. 648 00:50:48.659 --> 00:50:53.639 There's a big finish audio where missy jokes that she once killed a mass teacher with a milk float. 649 00:50:53.940 --> 00:50:56.460 And it's clearly a reference to Danny. 650 00:50:56.519 --> 00:50:59.219 But it's also the fact you then go, well, hold on. 651 00:50:59.280 --> 00:51:06.900 The doctor and Clara only get involved because Danny was killed and Missy does imply that she wanted them to find her. 652 00:51:07.079 --> 00:51:09.300 Oh, so she kills her. 653 00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:11.940 She kills Danny Pink with a milk she does. 654 00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:14.159 I thought she might have run over the brigadier. 655 00:51:14.219 --> 00:51:16.139 I thought that was the claim that she was making. 656 00:51:16.199 --> 00:51:17.880 Well, it's got a reverse gear. 657 00:51:17.940 --> 00:51:24.840 Well, well dressed, as John Pertwee, as Jones the milk, yeah, for Green Death. 658 00:51:24.900 --> 00:51:25.980 With that fake moustache. 659 00:51:25.980 --> 00:51:27.960 With that fake, which Richard's wearing now. 660 00:51:28.079 --> 00:51:29.820 We both. 661 00:51:30.360 --> 00:51:32.219 Both doing it now. 662 00:51:32.280 --> 00:51:33.179 All right. 663 00:51:33.239 --> 00:51:34.320 I think we, what do you want? 664 00:51:34.320 --> 00:51:34.980 That was really sweet. 665 00:51:35.039 --> 00:51:35.880 Todd have another thing? 666 00:51:35.940 --> 00:51:38.460 No, I was just gonna... no, it's okay. 667 00:51:38.519 --> 00:51:39.599 Oh, say something. 668 00:51:39.659 --> 00:51:41.039 Oh no, it's really boring. 669 00:51:41.099 --> 00:51:42.360 It was just that... 670 00:51:42.360 --> 00:51:51.360 An audience is 7.6 million. with an AI of 83, which means that it was actually... well liked. 671 00:51:51.420 --> 00:51:54.539 I mean, the Christmas special will have an AI of 82. 672 00:51:54.719 --> 00:51:56.400 So, you know, that's still high too. 673 00:51:56.460 --> 00:51:57.420 So that's still high too. 674 00:51:57.480 --> 00:52:01.980 And that gets a bigger general audience, so it's impressive that it gets that high. 675 00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:03.360 Yeah, it does. 676 00:52:03.420 --> 00:52:04.739 Yeah, everyone's watching it. 677 00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:05.340 Yeah. 678 00:52:05.760 --> 00:52:08.880 But not as much as previous Christmas specials. 679 00:52:08.940 --> 00:52:10.380 This one is a bit more muted. 680 00:52:10.440 --> 00:52:12.539 I really like, I'm looking forward to this. 681 00:52:12.599 --> 00:52:13.559 I love last Christmas. 682 00:52:13.619 --> 00:52:15.300 Oh, it's wonderful. 683 00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:16.619 I'm going to watch it today. 684 00:52:16.679 --> 00:52:19.739 I'm going to the home and do the ironing and watch it today. really good. 685 00:52:19.800 --> 00:52:22.739 But you know, I think this doesn't wrap everything up, as you said. 686 00:52:23.400 --> 00:52:34.380 But I think there are certain elements that are tied up with storylines and so I find it, like we're uneasy about some things and I think we're not used to that. 687 00:52:34.440 --> 00:52:35.340 That's okay. 688 00:52:35.400 --> 00:52:36.539 I think that's okay. 689 00:52:36.599 --> 00:52:36.960 Yeah, yeah. 690 00:52:37.019 --> 00:52:37.559 And that's a good thing. 691 00:52:37.619 --> 00:52:38.099 Yeah. 692 00:52:38.159 --> 00:52:46.980 And the thing is, I think, unlike other things, I have been uneasy about it, Doctor, I think this is written to make you feel a bit uneasy. 693 00:52:47.039 --> 00:52:52.619 It's not a consequence of not thinking through the consequences of what you're saying about a character. 694 00:52:52.679 --> 00:52:53.340 Yeah. 695 00:52:53.340 --> 00:53:03.719 I think things have been thought through to a level they need to be and most questions that remain are questions deliberately put in the mind of the viewer. 696 00:53:03.780 --> 00:53:04.320 Yeah, yeah. 697 00:53:04.500 --> 00:53:07.139 All right, I'm going to press stop. 698 00:53:07.260 --> 00:53:08.639 Yeah, I'm sure we have an out somewhere there.