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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:42:21

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast, which inflates dramatically at moments of high emotion.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd.

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I'm Peter.

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And I'm Simon.

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Well, we started the year by kicking a guy out of an airborne restaurant and continued by insulting some organic soldiers and foiling a couple of robotic ones, pushing a beloved childhood hero in a river, ruining our friend's 1st date, belittling her boyfriend, telling a historically important child.

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She's not special, writing insulting signs, disappearing just as the moon hatches, giving school children the most important homework in history, for giving a friend, and making a short trip to the underworld.

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It's been an eventful 12 episodes, so it's time to take stock in our series H retrospective.

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Here we go.

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Simon, here's one for you.

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Snog, marry a void.

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The teller, the boneless trees.

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Oh, dear.

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Well, I think I have to marry the tailor because actually once you get to know him, he does seem very, very good company.

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I guess...

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I think you can do snoggy.

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Nice of you to say so, Peter.

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The boneless.

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Oh, dear.

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Well, I'm avoiding the boneless, and so I'm snogging trees.

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We've all done it. sentence.

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Okay, here's another one.

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Peter.

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Oh, yes.

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Snog, marry your void.

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Kill the moon, the caretaker in the forest of the night.

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Okay, I'm going to avoid in the forest of the night because why the hell wouldn't you?

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I will snog kill the moon just because I think it can be quite racy in places, even if it doesn't work out.

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So I would have to marry the caretaker, which I don't know if you go through life with the caretaker, do you?

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No, terrible.

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Okay, but that's what you left for.

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Quickie divorce, end up with, you know, mummy.

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I actually quite like, I've had a Todd experience.

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Within the forest of the night.

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I actually did not find it as bad as I thought it was going to be.

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But do you mean it was still bad, just not quite as bad?

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It's not my least favourite of the year.

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That would have to go to Kill the Moon.

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But only because of the performance of the lead actress, not Jenna.

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Hermione Norris. and I agree with you, Simon.

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When I listen to that.

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She's just so dour all the way through.

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And I guess that's her job, but I just thought it was very one note.

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Yeah.

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See, I don't like Kill the Moon at all, and I don't think it's the worst episode of the season in the Forest of the Night definitely is.

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Oh, absolutely.

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I think the caretaker is because I think it's so crucial to the arc and it fumbles so badly by just making everyone horribly unlikeable and it takes a long while to recover.

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And I think for some people, they never kind of recover from that.

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Whereas I think they both kill the moon and in the forest of the night remind people who think that Doctor Who is about base corridors that that's not what it's about or what its tone is at all.

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So it does push things too far for some people, I think, understandably, but it tries to do something different.

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Just like having Santa turn up in last Christmas, I think.

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It's strange because I don't think that there are many just regular episodes this season.

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I think there's a bunch of really great episodes and a bunch of episodes that do not hit the mark.

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And the episodes that don't hit the mark all don't hit the mark for different reasons.

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So in the forest of the night is just an utter failure of production, as well as being stupid in places.

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It's something which does make my fanboy heart cringe.

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Caretaker gets the relationships all kinds of wrong and is also, I think, as was talked about. on the episode, which I wasn't on, has some very problematic things going on, which people making the show probably didn't even realise, but that's not what the end result is.

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And I know I'm not going to be popular with Todd for saying this, but I think that robots of Sherwood is really dull and obvious.

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But, you know, then you've got half a dozen episodes, which are really immaculately great.

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And I think I would prefer a season like this to one like last season, series 7, where everything was just a bit kind of mare.

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Yeah.

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I always give episodes marks for trying, for having a good idea, even if it doesn't necessarily work.

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I think in the Forest of the Night, for me, is a failure because it goes back to when I was watching Paradise Towers, episode 4 on its 1st transmission here and my brother walked into the lounge room at a few moments and basically just said at one point, Oh my god, this is so, and then he swore, I think this is a G rated podcast, but so I felt mortally embarrassed for watching it.

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And I think if someone saw me watching in the forest of the night at many times, I would be cringing and I think just echoing what you said, Peter.

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It makes my fanboy heart cringe because I think there's so much about it, which is kind of like a children's show.

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That feeling, that experience of having someone wander in and see you watching Doctor Who being embarrassing is so incredibly kind of engrained into all of our fan DNA.

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And all of our listeners, probably.

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It's really important, motivating, critical factor for all of us.

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I think it's pretty funny.

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I totally agree with you.

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And Simon, I've got flashbacks because I know my father tried to bond with me watching Doctor Who, and of course it was.

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It was either Paradise Towers or Time in the Rani, and I literally turned to him and said to him, please just, oh, this is so embarrassing.

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Leave the room.

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I basically said that, like, of all things, it was that.

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But we digress.

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I'm going to go back to in the forest of the night.

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I actually really do like spending time with Clara, Danny and the doctor.

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And I think that's the part that I enjoyed the most of that episode.

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The whole, who's the sister that suddenly just comes out of the porch at the end.

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That's so poorly realised beyond Annabelle?

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awful.

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Something like that.

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Annabelle, it's just awful.

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She looks like she's going to murder everyone.

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She like appears looking like really angry and it's kind of like, what's going on here?

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It's the final shot of the episode.

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It's very bad.

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I think I think I mentioned in the finale somewhere that I really do consider this whole concept of a Sarah Jane Adventure sort of thing and a very poorly realised Sarah Jane Adventures, but I did like it a lot more than I thought I was going to, perhaps because I went in with such low expectations.

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But I really would have liked to have spent more time with Courtney, who just seems to get dropped after her couple of episodes in the middle of the season.

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It would have been good to see her again, unlike those 2 Gormless children from last year, who also just got dropped for no reason at all.

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He does a couple of episodes and then says goodbye, that's it.

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Yeah, so in the forest of the night for me, was not the least enjoyable to watch.

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I actually find Kill the Moon that because when they start agonising over the decision and they, I just find that from that point on.

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And I'm not particularly sold on the chicken, the egg thing, I don't totally hate it now, but I just find that that story for me collapses.

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And so even into the Dalek, which is all over the shop. and I've mentioned that before I think I enjoy a bit more.

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Back to what you were saying, Peter, about episodes this year.

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I love the fact that this season is imperfectly perfect for me.

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I just think there are some wonderful episodes.

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All the other episodes which I have problems with.

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There's actually aspects in them that I actually really do like as opposed to totally dislike the thing.

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Um, I guess that's one of the things that I probably mentioned, is that there are different themes running through all these episodes, and you can choose which path you want to go down.

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You could just decide on an obvious tack that I'm just going to wait for Missy to turn up and watch that part of it.

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It's a shame that she's actually not in an episode earlier or Seb where they're actually controlling the action, but the doctor never actually gets to see them.

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I think that would have been fun to have.

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Obviously, we can't have her being like with the reveal at the end of the year, but it would have been nice to have had some sort of more than just, you know, walking in the background and being in the promised land.

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It's interesting what you said about Kil the Moon, Todd, because I think that you don't like Kil the Moon for the same reason as I don't like in the Forest of the Night.

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I think Kilamoon has actually quite a few things to recommend it.

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I don't think it's very good, but there is some good stuff in there.

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But it just, at some point, pitches past that feeling where everything, like, we talk about the science and all of that, but at some point it all just becomes cumulative and you kind of give up on it and go, oh, actually, it's just a bit stupid, and I had the same feeling within the forest of the night.

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See, I think I understand why Todd doesn't like Kill the Moon because we said in our episode that it presents a choice, we get to make a choice between Doctor Who and kind of generic space stuff, but we're given so much generic space stuff at the beginning, and that choice only gets made very, very close to the end of the episode.

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And so it does risk being very dreary, I think, up until that point.

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And it's leavened a bit because there's some sort of fun spider action or whatever.

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But I think I can see why that tone is a problem.

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I think for me, both of them have a similar issue and I brought this sort of comment up before about other episodes that I don't like.

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And I know Nathan you sort of scoff at this suggestion, but for me, it's about the suspension of disbelief.

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Now, recognising that, you know, we have a police telephone box that can travel through space and time that's bigger on the inside and the outside.

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Yes, I know it's all ridiculous, but there are things that within an episode have to make sense with itself. internal logic Sometimes internal. the internal logic of something.

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So a world is set up.

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A world meeting, kind of broadly speaking, is set up in an episode or a story.

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And there are sort of rules that are set in place.

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And usually those rules are established in the 1st few minutes.

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And I think the problem with both those episodes is, well, the problem with Kilda Moon is that it sets up some, I feel like it sets up some rules in the 1st 5 minutes, which I then feel get completely thrown out. the window and then new ones brought in and then they get thrown out and then a whole other ones get brought in and then we decide, oh, okay, it's a bit of everything.

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In the forest of the night fails for me, even though I think there are some absolutely stunning and great scenes with the regulars.

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I just think the overall concept, I think, needed a little bit more thinking through because I just don't buy it.

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I just think it's quite ridiculous.

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And I also think it's sort of sending the wrong message that it doesn't matter how we treat the planet because at the end of the day all the trees will kind of, you know, protect us. a bunch of wrong messages, actually, including about...

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Yeah, eggs and medication and all that sort of stuff.

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I think the medication thing is a genuine problem and it does seem to be like an old guy thinking that kids are too medicated these days and putting that into the show.

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I can see the risk that that episode takes in saying that the planet will just fix itself.

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But I also think that what's happening there is it's a more kind of, it's telling us the role that the forest plays, in that it protects us from what's going on in space.

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It makes our atmosphere, our world habitable.

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And so we see it doing that in this sort of very obvious way.

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But the takeaway message isn't that if we ruin the planet enough, a massive worldwide forest will spring up and save us all.

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It is that the trees are important. harm the trees.

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And I think I think that's okay.

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I also think very strongly that whether you think a story is credible or not depends very strongly on the age you were when you 1st saw it.

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And so everyone's favourite season 7 episode posits that there's goo in the earth's crust that when you touch it, you turn into a werewolf and like no one is saying that's a preposterous story scientifically.

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And how could anyone enjoy it?

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So I do think that's a thing.

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This series does take Doctor Who further in that direction than it's been taken before.

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And if it fails for some people, I don't mind because I really want Doctor Who to do something new.

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That's the one thing that Doctor Who should be doing.

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It's the reason that we hated the 80s because it was just doing the same old stuff for.

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In fact, not doing the same old stuff.

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Yeah, I didn't hate the 80s actually.

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One of the problems with the 80s is that it's too reverential to previous source material instead of pushing us in bold new directions.

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But you see, the thing with patches, patches of it, yes.

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The thing with Inferno is that it is preposterous, the idea, but that's fine.

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Doctor is full of preposterous ideas, but the rules within it are set up and maintained throughout the episode.

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And so you can believe in the, quote unquote, preposterous world that it sets up.

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Yeah, but what Nathan's sort of saying is because we saw Inferno when we were, what would have been, I'd have been 12 or something at the time, 13.

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It's better than if we'd have seen it as a 50-year-old for the 1st time.

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I think there is something in that.

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No, but I think there is something in that, but I think it explained some things, but I don't think it explains everything.

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I think it does explain some reactions that we have as fully grown adults, allegedly, to some of the new series stuff.

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But at the same time, you know, we keep saying that, you know, young people, you know, kids are so much smarter than they were in previous generations, but I feel like something like in the Forest of the Night is not treating that audience with the respect it deserves.

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Taking a different take now.

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I was mentioning the Missy Arc very briefly.

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I mean, obviously Michelle Gomez is fantastic.

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I just think she just sells every single line that she's given.

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But when it comes to the whole year, like the master's really not in it very much at all.

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Like, I mean, if you look at Delgado's 1st year as the master, like plot wise is in every story and is instigator of so many things.

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And here the grand plan is just to produce a cyber army, to give to the doctor.

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Which makes no sense.

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That's right. that you've mentioned.

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Well, just like Delgado's plans, I guess.

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But she has such a presence, but she's not really involved very much at all.

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So I was thinking back on previous arcs.

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Both Moffatt and RTD.

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And I think that this is the only one that does the roughly half the episodes have a scene which reminds us of the arc and is solely there for that reason.

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I'm thinking of a couple of scenes maybe in series three, you know, in Lazarus experiment and the one 42, you know, which has Mr. Saxons kind of minions interacting with Francine, perhaps.

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Yeah, that woman from Holy Oaks.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Mysterious woman.

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I think she might be called.

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I think that those scenes are themselves absolutely hilarious.

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Like, they're really properly funny.

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I love when she offers tea to Gretchen in Into the Dalek, which I think is just sort of, is it Gretchen?

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Yeah, it is.

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All of that stuff is great.

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Every moment that she's on the screen is just truly splendid.

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And I think we get more of her than we might have expected.

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And I think the master even now deserves a little bit of buildup as well.

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Like, I just, it was one of my objections to SpyFall part one is, oh, it's suddenly just the master and we've literally had no buildup to that at all.

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And maybe the 3rd time you don't need quite an extensive buildup, I'm not sure.

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But the build-up to missing, I think, is so great, and the reveal is just so magnificent.

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And Moffatt clearly loves her so much that he can't leave her alone and just puts her in the 1st story of the next season because she's so great.

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Yeah, and also it's helpful to view, I think, Missy as not being in the whole season.

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Missy is really only in dark water and death in heaven.

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It's just that we keep getting extended previews of it, which is amazing.

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Yeah, it's the good thing about doing it that way is that those little epilogue scenes in those episodes don't interfere with the telling of those episodes.

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No.

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They are sometimes in the middle, aren't they?

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They're not always immediately at the end.

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Yes, that is true.

196
00:17:38.700 --> 00:17:44.039
No, they're not always at the very end, but they're not. they're not important to to the episode at all.

197
00:17:44.099 --> 00:17:50.099
And they are vastly more interesting than the doctor just checking that Amy is, yep, pregnant again at the start of every episode.

198
00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:51.240
Yes.

199
00:17:51.299 --> 00:17:51.660
Yes, yes.

200
00:17:51.720 --> 00:17:52.680
That's very true.

201
00:17:52.740 --> 00:17:53.759
Very true.

202
00:17:53.819 --> 00:18:01.559
It certainly keeps people hooked into that if that's what you're interested in as opposed to perhaps, am I a good man?

203
00:18:01.619 --> 00:18:02.519
Yeah.

204
00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:05.880
Which is one of the other arcs for the season.

205
00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:11.279
And I think it's a good exploration, but was it the right decision to make?

206
00:18:11.339 --> 00:18:12.900
You've talked a bit about this, Nathan.

207
00:18:13.019 --> 00:18:18.420
Well, I think Flatline is the episode that gets at the most right.

208
00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:31.319
And I think I said in that episode it wasn't a critique of the 12th doctor as much as it was a critique of the doctor, that thing about how the doctor lies because people who have hope run faster than those that don't.

209
00:18:31.380 --> 00:18:35.279
And so the doctor's role is dishonest.

210
00:18:35.339 --> 00:18:41.279
And although they're a good outcomes to that, what does it mean about him as a person?

211
00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:57.779
And like, I think, ultimately, that it fails, because it seems strange that the 12 doctor is having this moral crisis about the 12 doctor's character even before he really does anything.

212
00:18:57.839 --> 00:18:59.700
Oh, well, he beats up a trap, doesn't he?

213
00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:00.960
pushes that guy out the window.

214
00:19:01.019 --> 00:19:02.640
But do you know what I mean?

215
00:19:02.700 --> 00:19:04.380
He's having this sort of moral crisis.

216
00:19:04.980 --> 00:19:06.660
I don't know.

217
00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:12.180
I don't think it's to do with beating up the train, but I don't think it's a 12th doctor wondering whether the 12th doctor is a good man.

218
00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:15.180
It is the 12th doctor wondering whether the doctor is a good man.

219
00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:23.099
And I think I touched on this in deep breath in that he's just supposedly regenerated. he's now living on borrowed time.

220
00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:29.579
Like he was supposed to reach the end of his life with his last incarnation in this story that was created.

221
00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:40.799
And so I think the fact that he's effectively cheated death and been given a whole new cycle or infinite regenerations, whatever the hell it is, is making him kind of having a self-doubt moment as to who am I and why am I here?

222
00:19:40.859 --> 00:19:47.039
I think that's the best, the better explanation for why he's having that self-doubt. new life crisis Exactly.

223
00:19:47.099 --> 00:19:49.200
Not because he's regenerated into Peter Capaldi.

224
00:19:49.259 --> 00:19:50.460
Yeah.

225
00:19:50.519 --> 00:19:57.900
And also they've just come off the 50th and the 50th, the day of the doctor is all about. could the doctor be the person who did this terrible thing.

226
00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:01.259
So a little bit of kind of introspection following that is to be expected, really.

227
00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:04.200
And it is a Moffat obsession, isn't it?

228
00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:06.180
Yeah, I mean, I do find it a little bit tedious.

229
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:06.660
Yes, it is.

230
00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:07.619
It is a bit.

231
00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:11.400
I mean, but I do find a little bit... unnecessary.

232
00:20:11.460 --> 00:20:13.920
I mean, I know it's the thing that they like to do.

233
00:20:13.980 --> 00:20:17.339
I don't think it's done with much subtlety, actually.

234
00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:18.059
Thank you, Peter.

235
00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:18.960
I agree with you.

236
00:20:19.019 --> 00:20:23.880
It's not subtle in the way it's shoehorned into certain scenes and episodes.

237
00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:25.680
And I think I've mentioned it.

238
00:20:25.740 --> 00:20:31.500
It's like having a painting where suddenly it's quite bright and everything and then you have this dark mark there.

239
00:20:31.559 --> 00:20:32.940
There just has to be put in.

240
00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:35.640
And so sometimes I kind of think, oh, do we really have to go there?

241
00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:38.099
That could have been written better with this.

242
00:20:38.220 --> 00:20:45.359
And I do think in Flatline when he comes out of the TARDIS and is doing his big, huge speech to the boneless. is just a wonderful moment.

243
00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:50.160
And it's where initially that I finally said, yes, he's here, he's arrived.

244
00:20:50.220 --> 00:20:52.920
I really love Peter Capaldi as the doctor.

245
00:20:52.980 --> 00:20:58.920
I know in that episode, I think Stephen was saying that this, was it Stephen that was saying that it needed to be earlier in the season?

246
00:20:58.980 --> 00:21:00.000
Perhaps it did.

247
00:21:00.059 --> 00:21:12.480
Perhaps it's perfect where it actually is because going back on rewatch, it's actually, I just find it intriguing watching that particular arc, the journey and the decisions that they've made, whether you agree with it or not, and how we get to that particular point.

248
00:21:12.539 --> 00:21:18.960
I mean, I certainly think from that point forward, it's sort of like, well, you've really answered, am I a good man?

249
00:21:19.019 --> 00:21:23.160
Like, do we need to go back and keep revisiting that in the finale or whatever?

250
00:21:23.220 --> 00:21:28.619
Because by the time we get to last Christmas, Capaldi's actually really likeable in that.

251
00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:34.799
I mean, he's still grumpy and that's he's got all these character traits, but he's actually quite loveable in last Christmas.

252
00:21:34.859 --> 00:21:41.279
I don't see how you cannot like him and Clara with Dr. and Clara in last Christmas.

253
00:21:41.339 --> 00:21:51.119
I think one of the things of this season, been imperfectly perfect, is that I think the acting from both of them is just immaculate, but do you really like them a lot of the time?

254
00:21:51.180 --> 00:22:05.099
Yeah, we've talked an awful lot about the fact that, you know, the doctor and companion relationship works best when it's a warm relationship because they are our friends and introducing a dysfunctional element to that is interesting, and I want to see that.

255
00:22:05.160 --> 00:22:07.980
It's just, it's not really very well handled here.

256
00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:11.099
And so you get these sledgehammer moments like Into the Dalek.

257
00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:12.480
She's my carer.

258
00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:14.039
She cares so that I don't have to.

259
00:22:14.099 --> 00:22:15.599
We're just thinking, well, where are you going with that?

260
00:22:15.660 --> 00:22:16.799
Yes, come on.

261
00:22:16.859 --> 00:22:19.980
Well, look, yeah, I mean, I don't mind those sorts of things.

262
00:22:20.039 --> 00:22:23.160
Even when he comes out with something which is quite cruel.

263
00:22:23.220 --> 00:22:24.059
It's usually funny.

264
00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:25.980
I don't care. it's great.

265
00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:30.420
What I'd say is that I always prefer the show Don't Tell root.

266
00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:38.519
I mean, I don't think that Doctor Who is the kind of program that the viewership wants to go down these kind of introspective routes.

267
00:22:38.579 --> 00:22:40.140
I don't think that's what it's there for.

268
00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:41.819
It's certainly not what it's there for for me.

269
00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:47.220
I mean, there's there's actual proper drama programs if I want that, you know, that sort of thing.

270
00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:54.119
Yes, we need the program to be a little bit more, you know, realistic with characters in the modern era compared to the way it was back in the day.

271
00:22:54.180 --> 00:23:08.400
But rather than questioning, you know, am I a good man effectively throughout it, it's just better for that to be kind of an underlying thing that they, that's how they write it and that's how they they characterise it rather than it all being so blatant.

272
00:23:08.460 --> 00:23:10.259
Yes, he's the doctor.

273
00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:12.480
He's a good man. there we go There we go.

274
00:23:12.539 --> 00:23:13.500
A flawed, yes.

275
00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:16.740
Show the floors, by all means show the flaws, but at the end of the day, he's a good man.

276
00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:18.420
Of course he is. you know don't be ridiculous.

277
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:31.619
I think it's a reaction, though, against Matt Smith's doctor, who everyone thinks is terribly loveable, but who is provably actually quite awful at times, like bringing that forward a bit, that seems like an obvious thing to do.

278
00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:46.740
If Moffatt's writing a doctor who is kind of terrible and makes terrible decisions and manipulates his companions and various other things, then let's actually bring that to the fore so everyone notices it because I'm not sure that everyone does notice it.

279
00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:57.839
And I do think that the following doctor after Capaldi is a reaction against this and ends up being a much less interesting character as a result, I think.

280
00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:05.759
I think I just prefer the Matt Smith interpretation where they make him do horrible things, but they don't do it up front.

281
00:24:05.819 --> 00:24:08.819
And who cares whether a lot of the audience don't pick that up?

282
00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:13.619
You know, it's great for us, the fans to pick that up. that's, I suppose, what I'm saying.

283
00:24:13.740 --> 00:24:15.539
I'd rather just continue down that tack.

284
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:19.259
But I agree what you're saying about Jody being too much of a reaction against Capaldi.

285
00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:22.200
Capaldi's nastiness. she's too sweetness and light.

286
00:24:22.259 --> 00:24:25.859
You know, the place that I always go is horrifying wrong.

287
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:33.960
Tom in Horror of Fang Rock, who's saving them all, but being sort of very horrible to just about everyone all the way through, which is magnificent.

288
00:24:34.019 --> 00:24:40.799
I think also, um, this is all highlighted too with the doctor's relationship with Danny as well.

289
00:24:40.859 --> 00:24:53.819
I mean, Danny's also a very flawed character, extremely well played by Samuel, but he's not necessarily the nicest person, but you know, for a lot of it, they're in such conflict, which is unnecessary.

290
00:24:53.880 --> 00:25:07.500
And even at the end of the year with what happens with the character of Danny, like killing him off, which is quite horrible in itself, but, um, it leaves sort of unpleasant, unresolved sort of dynamic there.

291
00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:13.859
I mean, I do think the doctor does say, you know, we'll make a math teach you out of you yet, PE.

292
00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:25.920
And there is a resolution and he does want to try, he's, he's making amends for his horrible behaviour by, you know, giving him the way to get back from wherever he is and wanting to see Clara with, with Danny.

293
00:25:25.980 --> 00:25:35.759
But for a lot of it, it's just sledgehammer stuff like, as you said, which I just think is perhaps for the casual viewer is a bit of eternal.

294
00:25:35.819 --> 00:25:40.619
It's interesting that you say that Danny is not a particularly nice character sometimes.

295
00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:44.400
I think Danny's got a lot of agency and that's the reason why I like him.

296
00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:55.859
Usually when you get a new regular character who comes in or a semi-regular character, they kind of subordinate themselves to the doctor and the companion, and so they're there to service those characters.

297
00:25:55.920 --> 00:26:00.960
Whereas Danny actually has his own agency and is to Clara like, why are you going off with this guy?

298
00:26:01.019 --> 00:26:03.000
You should be in a relationship with me.

299
00:26:03.059 --> 00:26:04.079
That's what I signed up for.

300
00:26:04.140 --> 00:26:10.380
And so I like the fact that he's just kind of like a normal person who has come into this arrangement and actually just wants normal things.

301
00:26:10.380 --> 00:26:13.500
He doesn't care that she's going off with her doctorate, time and space.

302
00:26:13.559 --> 00:26:14.819
He wants to be able to go on a date with her.

303
00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:22.500
Yeah, I think that the caretaker has to take a lot of the blame for how that fails to work properly.

304
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:26.579
And it's not just the obvious things in the caretaker, where everyone's sort of super unlikeable.

305
00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:34.740
It's where Danny kind of goes, why didn't you tell me about your secret alien friend who you travel off with in time and space as if like there are...

306
00:26:34.859 --> 00:26:35.940
I'd have thought I was a lunatic.

307
00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:36.900
Yeah, that's right.

308
00:26:36.900 --> 00:26:38.039
There are moral rules about that.

309
00:26:38.099 --> 00:26:39.480
No one told me that.

310
00:26:39.539 --> 00:26:40.200
Yes exactly.

311
00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:44.460
And she could turn around and say, why didn't you tell me you could do a triple somersault?

312
00:26:44.519 --> 00:26:45.359
Yeah, yeah.

313
00:26:45.420 --> 00:26:47.279
A little different though.

314
00:26:47.460 --> 00:26:50.519
No, I agree with you both of those points.

315
00:26:50.579 --> 00:26:52.799
I mean, I do like Danny a lot.

316
00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:54.900
And I do like the fact that he has his own agency.

317
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:56.220
I think that is great.

318
00:26:56.279 --> 00:27:06.539
It's not like, I don't want to say Rory per se, but, you know, so often the boyfriends end up liking the doctor and the doctor ends up sort of liking them and they all get on board with going.

319
00:27:06.599 --> 00:27:07.380
He's Mr. Pond.

320
00:27:07.500 --> 00:27:08.220
Yeah.

321
00:27:08.279 --> 00:27:09.539
And they end up being doormats, basically.

322
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:10.200
Yes, yes.

323
00:27:10.259 --> 00:27:12.779
Whereas, whereas here that doesn't happen, and that is uncomfortable.

324
00:27:12.839 --> 00:27:14.339
But that's what I think anyway.

325
00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:23.640
Yeah, I do think we were missing an episode where, actually, it wouldn't have worked for the theme, but I did want to see it where Danny actually accompanies the Dr. and Clara on a proper outer space episode.

326
00:27:23.700 --> 00:27:27.960
Yeah, I mean, I think in the forest of the night is trying to do that for sure.

327
00:27:28.019 --> 00:27:31.259
Failing miserably Well, no, I think that's the best part of it.

328
00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:38.160
And I think in last Christmas you do get Danny and the doctor teaming up to save Clara's life in one scene.

329
00:27:38.220 --> 00:27:51.960
So I think that's part of the problem is that we're doing a retrospective, but there's really only a very few weeks between death in heaven and last Christmas.

330
00:27:52.019 --> 00:28:02.819
And the end of Death in Heaven is so downbeat and so problematic that Santa has to break into the closing credits to make sure that everything's okay.

331
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:07.859
And then we find the Titanic a few years earlier.

332
00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:08.819
That's right.

333
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:13.079
But he actually, because he's Santa, he has the power to stop the credits.

334
00:28:13.140 --> 00:28:15.779
Then he comes in and does this sort of thing.

335
00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:22.740
And then and then the credits resume with Nick Frost as Santa as well, like almost immediately.

336
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:29.160
But it's because it's a problem and it is because all of that stuff is going to be properly resolved in last Christmas.

337
00:28:29.220 --> 00:28:30.480
That's true.

338
00:28:30.539 --> 00:28:36.660
I personally do think there are quite a few things resolved in that last episodes still.

339
00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:40.859
I do think that you do get a resolution on the whole PE plot.

340
00:28:40.859 --> 00:29:04.799
And I do, and I do think having cyber brig there with the doctor saluting the cyber brig Gadir, whether you like it or not, is his way of acknowledging the military in a way that he has had a problem with them all year, which, you know, again, is another one of the themes of the year, whether you like it or not, to borrow someone else's vernacular.

341
00:29:04.859 --> 00:29:06.960
But last Christmas.

342
00:29:07.019 --> 00:29:11.940
I can't help but love that in terms of the resolution of all 3 characters.

343
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:23.700
You know, that beautiful moment with the doctor and older Clara and the Christmas cracker, which harks back to time of the doctor, which moved me to tears.

344
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:29.819
And the joy in the 12th doctor in the sleigh.

345
00:29:29.880 --> 00:29:30.599
Yeah, yeah.

346
00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:36.420
And the hug that Clara gives her superhero friend or whatever the, what does she say?

347
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:47.460
It's a hug where she hugs him from behind, so their faces aren't facing in opposite directions, which was the problem with the hug at the end of series 8 at the end of death in heaven.

348
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:50.160
So it really absolutely is definitely there.

349
00:29:50.220 --> 00:29:55.079
And it's our 1st 12 episode season where the 13th episode is the Christmas special.

350
00:29:55.140 --> 00:29:59.940
And it's almost like Moffat has plotted it just like one 13 episode season.

351
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:02.579
Yeah, because you know, it's all going on October to December.

352
00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:03.000
Why not?

353
00:30:03.059 --> 00:30:03.359
Yeah.

354
00:30:03.420 --> 00:30:03.660
Yeah.

355
00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:07.440
I mean, I haven't actually rewatched last Christmas yet.

356
00:30:07.500 --> 00:30:20.880
So my memory is from a decade ago, but I still feel that even though it does help to resolve more things, I still feel it's kind of too much of an epilogue, it's like, well, let's just milk it a bit more because she decided to stay and we're going to keep going.

357
00:30:20.940 --> 00:30:26.039
Whereas as Todd, you said, I think it does wrap up satisfactory at the end of Death in Heaven.

358
00:30:26.099 --> 00:30:29.640
I mean, yes, obviously you can do more later, but I don't know.

359
00:30:29.700 --> 00:30:32.220
I was just happy with ending it there.

360
00:30:32.279 --> 00:30:34.980
That's before Santa breaks into the Tartars.

361
00:30:35.039 --> 00:30:40.859
I just don't think you can have that be the companion departure, the thing at death in heaven.

362
00:30:40.980 --> 00:30:44.339
You know, what's the nearest analogue?

363
00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:58.980
Is it Tegan leaving at the end of Resurrection of the Daleks where their relationship breaks down irreparably and they just part ways and they do it in this sort of very English way where no one really says what they mean and all of that sort of thing?

364
00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:06.539
dodo in the war machines. that's right I think that's too downbeat.

365
00:31:06.599 --> 00:31:11.579
And while it would have been interesting because it would have been a little bit like Martha's departure.

366
00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:13.019
It's like a real person reason.

367
00:31:13.079 --> 00:31:15.539
It's not space reasons for the partying.

368
00:31:15.599 --> 00:31:19.859
It's like, I just don't like this anymore and I want to go. that's what I was liking.

369
00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:21.299
Yeah, yeah.

370
00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:23.160
It's just a bit too busy.

371
00:31:23.220 --> 00:31:24.119
I like the real person reasons.

372
00:31:25.319 --> 00:31:34.980
The fact that Jenna is staying on, and that decision isn't made till late in the year. may or may not have influenced the writing of this.

373
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:45.660
You know, had she decided that she was going to go before Christmas, then maybe he would have written things differently or even before, you know, Christmas itself when they were at the read through to suddenly say that I'm staying.

374
00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:49.500
Would that have changed what happened to Danny, would that have changed anything in the season?

375
00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:51.480
I properly think not, looking back at it.

376
00:31:52.319 --> 00:31:57.660
I do feel that it's, you know, he's not going to go and kill a long-term companion at Christmas.

377
00:31:57.720 --> 00:32:02.880
I mean, Russell's quite happy to kill Kylie at Christmas, but she's only in there for that episode, you know?

378
00:32:03.119 --> 00:32:06.480
And so having her stay on.

379
00:32:06.539 --> 00:32:20.460
He's already building the storylines of her addiction, but into next year, and there's either one or 2 ways that's going to go, whether you, you know, if you're addicted to, say, smoking and you have patches to wing yourself off it, or it's going to go in the completely other direction.

380
00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:32.039
I mean, I would have really liked to have seen Shona come on as an alternative companion where she's sort of like the apprentice companion and Clara sort of weans is swinging herself off the doctor.

381
00:32:32.099 --> 00:32:34.140
And certainly in last Christmas.

382
00:32:34.200 --> 00:32:35.039
Just watching it.

383
00:32:35.099 --> 00:32:51.599
It's like she calls the doctor a magician, Shona does, and he calls her an apprentice at some point, perhaps harking to the 1st episode of next year, but as great as they are as a team, having another season of these 2 characters, the same old same old is perhaps a mistake.

384
00:32:51.660 --> 00:32:57.839
Yeah, after this season, I just don't know actually what more there is to say about the doctor and Clara.

385
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:17.400
I mentioned in one of the episodes earlier that the character of Clara, I've done a bit of a change of heart.

386
00:33:17.460 --> 00:33:30.900
Like, I really think from time of the doctor through the end of the season, she's actually really, she's much more of a character than the Impossible Girl, and I actually have really loved her performances and the journey this season so much more.

387
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:32.940
But yes, Peter, I agree with you.

388
00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:34.799
It's sort of like, is it time to let it go?

389
00:33:34.859 --> 00:33:36.779
sooner rather than later.

390
00:33:36.839 --> 00:33:40.079
Does that have an impact on viewers coming back next season?

391
00:33:40.140 --> 00:33:42.720
I don't think it has an impact on viewers coming back.

392
00:33:42.779 --> 00:33:44.339
I just think the characters run its course.

393
00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:50.220
Whether it's death in heaven or last Christmas, I think that should have been one of those 2 should have been the Swan song 100% for her.

394
00:33:50.400 --> 00:34:01.799
Except that I have to say that the final scene in last Christmas with her, though it's good, is nothing like so good as what we end up getting in Face the Raven.

395
00:34:01.859 --> 00:34:06.539
Like, I think we do end up with something more interesting in her departure.

396
00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:10.739
A little bit more operatic and overblown, but I'm here for that too.

397
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:15.539
This sort of segues into a question that Stephen B has asked us, which is this.

398
00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:18.960
I would like to know what you will think contributed to the decline in ratings.

399
00:34:19.019 --> 00:34:30.000
Dave, the doctor was such a hit, but we drop unjustly to 6700000 viewers with flatline, is an older grumpier doctor the cause or has traditional television medits match in streaming.

400
00:34:30.059 --> 00:34:36.000
I'm going to disagree with the premise of that question because I don't think that the ratings really are affected much this year.

401
00:34:36.059 --> 00:34:41.940
They're little bit down on Matt Smith's last year, even not taking into account day of the doctor and time of the doctor.

402
00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:54.000
And so I think that will account for ratings falling off a bit of a cliff next year, but I think there's residual goodwill in this season coming off the 50th, that the audience mainly sticks with it.

403
00:34:54.059 --> 00:34:57.300
I think then you just have a 9 month break between this and the next season.

404
00:34:57.360 --> 00:34:59.820
And the interest seems to have evaporated a little bit.

405
00:34:59.880 --> 00:35:07.019
I remember living in Britain at the time, and Doctor Who, during the David Tennant and Matt Smith eras, was all over media.

406
00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:12.059
So they would be appearing on comedy shows and hosting and chat shows and all of that.

407
00:35:12.059 --> 00:35:13.739
And it just seemed overnight.

408
00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:16.019
It sort of dried up after the 50th.

409
00:35:16.139 --> 00:35:18.960
And so I'm wondering if that's really the reason it just wasn't pervasive anymore.

410
00:35:19.019 --> 00:35:24.179
And then you get like a whole year without Doctor Who and then you get series 10.

411
00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:25.019
Yeah.

412
00:35:25.079 --> 00:35:25.380
Yeah.

413
00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:32.460
I think it's definitely the hangover, the 50th anniversary hangover, and I think Doctor Who suffers from it after the 20th anniversary as well.

414
00:35:32.519 --> 00:35:35.760
It's everywhere and then people are just a little bit over it.

415
00:35:35.820 --> 00:35:36.780
You're right, Peter.

416
00:35:36.840 --> 00:35:42.780
I was just looking at the ratings for series 7 versus series 8 and they are pretty similar with a few.

417
00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:43.980
Oh, actually, no, that's the snowman.

418
00:35:44.039 --> 00:35:45.539
So that's the Christmas episodes.

419
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:46.320
So that's kind of up.

420
00:35:46.380 --> 00:35:46.679
But yeah.

421
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:49.920
It sort of falls by like .2 of a 1000000 over the season.

422
00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:55.380
It gets into the Sixers, you know, with Crimson Horror and Nightmare and Silver, but which is kind of where this season ends up in the middle.

423
00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:58.500
But there is a substantial drop after deep breath.

424
00:35:58.500 --> 00:36:02.519
There's like three, you know, 2500000 between the two. which is interesting.

425
00:36:02.579 --> 00:36:04.079
Can I just talk to this as well?

426
00:36:04.139 --> 00:36:06.239
Yeah, you've got a table there.

427
00:36:06.300 --> 00:36:07.500
Oh, I like tables.

428
00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:08.760
I like all the ratings here.

429
00:36:08.820 --> 00:36:09.000
Yes.

430
00:36:09.059 --> 00:36:11.760
And my tables here totally agree with you.

431
00:36:11.820 --> 00:36:21.539
There is the same pattern in the 2nd half of the Matt Smith seasons is, and even in David Tennant's, is that you do get drops into the 6 millions in that 2nd half of the season.

432
00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:28.920
And I have to say like 6.7, been the lowest in this season, is more than 4 of the episodes for Matt Smith last season.

433
00:36:28.980 --> 00:36:30.900
So it's not like it's really dramatic.

434
00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:33.780
And I do think I totally agree with you.

435
00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:37.920
It's the hangover after the 50th, but it's also a natural stepping off point.

436
00:36:37.980 --> 00:36:43.079
I think a lot of television series and I'm probably thinking more of Australia and America.

437
00:36:43.139 --> 00:36:50.099
A lot of series to the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s would last five, six, 7 years, maybe 8 if you were a big hit.

438
00:36:50.099 --> 00:36:54.599
And there's a natural point where ratings do begin to climb and then they decide to call it a day.

439
00:36:54.659 --> 00:37:02.340
And here, you've got Matt Smith coming in for series 5 where people could have stopped watching, but it was such a hit and they were so wonderful.

440
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:08.460
And then that renews the audience and then you've got the buildup to the 50th and people are still there.

441
00:37:08.460 --> 00:37:11.699
And then this year they're still with the show.

442
00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:14.460
And if it had been just a grumpy doctor.

443
00:37:14.519 --> 00:37:21.840
I think we would have just had a free fall throughout the entire season, which is simply not the case, you know, it comes back at the end of the season.

444
00:37:21.900 --> 00:37:30.300
What's interesting, I think, is the Christmas special, which is the 1st time a Christmas special has not reached 9000000 viewers.

445
00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:39.360
It's 8.6 or something like that, 8.7, but there's a 1000000 watching on BBC iPlayer, which indicates, I think, a shift in viewing habits.

446
00:37:39.480 --> 00:37:41.280
And if that stuff is added in now.

447
00:37:41.340 --> 00:37:44.280
Like if half of that had been added in, it would have gotten over 9 million.

448
00:37:44.340 --> 00:37:48.900
You also look at the audience appreciation, the audience appreciation for this season.

449
00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:55.380
Very good, like 82, 83, 84 and 85 for those mummy and flatline, which are my favourites of the season.

450
00:37:55.440 --> 00:38:00.360
But if you look back at Matt Smith, he's getting 85, 86, 87, 88 for a lot of things.

451
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:02.699
And say the tenor was getting into the 90s sometimes.

452
00:38:02.820 --> 00:38:03.719
Yeah, that's right.

453
00:38:03.780 --> 00:38:06.179
There's subtle shifts going on.

454
00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:08.099
As you say, when we come back.

455
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:16.500
It's suddenly 6.5,50000 and even this season is still placing about the same in the mid-teens.

456
00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:19.980
Next season, it is about 6 or 7 places lower than that.

457
00:38:20.039 --> 00:38:21.599
So there is a bit of fatigue.

458
00:38:21.659 --> 00:38:27.900
And I kind of think had we had a new companion coming into next season that may have just generated a bit more.

459
00:38:28.199 --> 00:38:30.599
The doctor and Clara and the TARDIS, same old, same old.

460
00:38:30.780 --> 00:38:42.719
Stephen, sorry to say, I don't think it's as bad as perhaps that perspective makes out or what the general consensus happens to be that, oh, suddenly it just fell away that I don't agree.

461
00:38:42.900 --> 00:38:44.400
Simon?

462
00:38:44.460 --> 00:38:46.320
Although that is to come, I think.

463
00:38:46.380 --> 00:38:49.019
I think I think he's question is just one season early, early perhaps.

464
00:38:49.079 --> 00:38:51.119
If I can just sort of explore the hangover thing.

465
00:38:51.179 --> 00:38:56.519
I don't think it's just necessary that people at home are sick of it, but I think it's Peter, you were mentioned, doctor was everywhere in the media.

466
00:38:56.579 --> 00:38:59.760
You know, there were people on chat shows, there were media stories about it.

467
00:38:59.820 --> 00:39:02.039
And I think so, it's actually the PR machine.

468
00:39:02.099 --> 00:39:06.360
Well, not the PR machine, but the respondents to the PR machine that are going, oh, we've done stories about Dr. Elasi.

469
00:39:06.420 --> 00:39:11.639
We won't bother having that many interviews and we won't have this many features in the daily, this, that, and the other.

470
00:39:11.699 --> 00:39:15.360
And so that actually then makes people less aware that it's on.

471
00:39:15.420 --> 00:39:22.260
And maybe the BBC trailer people go, oh, we won't show as many trailers anymore because we did that last year and, you know, we've had enough of that.

472
00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:23.760
There's this new thing that we want to do.

473
00:39:23.820 --> 00:39:26.880
And it kind of, it's snowballs, that does start to snowball.

474
00:39:26.940 --> 00:39:27.960
It does.

475
00:39:28.019 --> 00:39:30.780
And also, it's the kind of program there is as well.

476
00:39:30.900 --> 00:39:39.059
So for rightly or for wrongly, I think that Doctor Who maximised its ratings potential with doctors like David Tennant and Matt Smith.

477
00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:46.320
And I think there was a general public audience which were receptive to them and liked that iteration of Doctor Who.

478
00:39:46.440 --> 00:39:48.360
And you still get that this season.

479
00:39:48.420 --> 00:39:51.239
You get a bit of a kind of a, you know, people are loyal to it.

480
00:39:51.300 --> 00:39:52.500
And so they do watch the season.

481
00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:57.480
But eventually, by next season, come to the inclusion that's not actually a show that they're interested in.

482
00:39:57.539 --> 00:40:01.320
And while I don't think that is a good show or a bad show.

483
00:40:01.380 --> 00:40:06.119
I just think there's 2 or 3000000 people who watch the show because they like a David Tennant style doctor.

484
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:31.380
I think too, we underestimate the importance of RTD in all of this, and it's been a few years since he left, obviously for us at this point, but if you look at what's happening right now and just the amount of buzz that the show is generating, even though it's not actually on, I think Russell is supremely good at getting the show talked about.

485
00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:41.340
Do you remember it was absolutely baffling that our stupid show could possibly be the biggest thing on television that it's being talked about by everyone.

486
00:40:41.400 --> 00:40:42.599
There's major news stories.

487
00:40:42.659 --> 00:40:46.260
Doctor Who was always kind of good at getting in the tabloids and stuff like that.

488
00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:56.099
And, you know, like the news would report when a new person was, you know, evening television news would report when a new person was cast as the doctor and stuff.

489
00:40:56.159 --> 00:40:58.500
But I mean, Russell just sort of turned that up to 11.

490
00:40:58.800 --> 00:40:59.880
It was incredible.

491
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:02.519
Like it was a very strange thing.

492
00:41:02.579 --> 00:41:09.300
And neither of his successes has been anywhere near as good at making that happen.

493
00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:15.119
I mean, Doctor Who's only been water cooler, generally speaking, 3 times in its life.

494
00:41:15.179 --> 00:41:21.599
So originally with the Daleks and then maybe the Hinchcliffe era and then the Russell T. Davies years.

495
00:41:21.659 --> 00:41:23.880
And that was putting the cart.

496
00:41:23.940 --> 00:41:26.099
Otherwise, it was putting the cart before the horse.

497
00:41:26.159 --> 00:41:40.980
So Doctor Who's always been good at drumming up publicity, but I think that is then given to a fairly passive audience and readership, whereas during those 3 eras, especially during the late David Tennant era, it was actually coming from the people who were watching.

498
00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:45.059
People were genuinely interested and hungry for more and more.

499
00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:46.199
And so the show was everywhere.

500
00:41:46.619 --> 00:41:52.260
But also, I think, I mean, it's not just RTDs, you know, PR abilities.

501
00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:58.440
It's also the fact that his style of program was lighter and fluffier, much more disposable.

502
00:41:58.500 --> 00:42:03.900
People could just sit down on a Saturday evening and watch it and have fun and enjoy it and that was it.

503
00:42:03.960 --> 00:42:15.900
Whereas I think, and I think with the Matt Smith era, you've got, I think you've got, you know, much better scripts and stories and it's much more interesting, but I think the magnetism of Matt Smith and the whole river song thing, I think, also helps to carry that through.

504
00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:23.280
I think by the time when you get this far, and the stories are getting more esoteric and a bit stranger and some of them aren't really working.

505
00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:26.340
And I think that's also probably...

506
00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:26.940
People love.

507
00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:31.679
And the doctor himself is like, although it's odd because Peter Capaldi is a very known quantity.

508
00:42:31.739 --> 00:42:33.179
So that's a bit surprised.

509
00:42:33.179 --> 00:42:36.480
And he is kind of, they're definitely channelling Malcolm Tucker at times.

510
00:42:36.599 --> 00:42:41.880
So they are delivering the doctor that I think people were expecting out of Peter Capaldi.

511
00:42:41.940 --> 00:42:49.320
But I just think overall the scripts, the stories are all getting a bit too often they're just failing in some way.

512
00:42:49.380 --> 00:42:50.699
And I think that also doesn't help.

513
00:42:50.760 --> 00:42:51.659
Oh, they're too confusing.

514
00:42:51.719 --> 00:42:52.380
What the hell's that?

515
00:42:52.440 --> 00:42:55.320
I don't understand and that's ridiculous and so on.

516
00:42:55.380 --> 00:42:59.880
And too twisty, and not in a kind of a timey, whimey Matt Smith's era kind of way either.

517
00:42:59.940 --> 00:43:02.639
Do you think it's time for Stephen to leave?

518
00:43:02.699 --> 00:43:03.659
Like, this is his 4th season?

519
00:43:03.719 --> 00:43:05.219
Absolutely. absolutely absolutely.

520
00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:07.079
I think much I love. think it's time?

521
00:43:07.139 --> 00:43:09.420
I don't think it's time for Stephen to leave.

522
00:43:09.480 --> 00:43:19.920
I think this is a much more successful season on balance than either 6 or 7 because it's got a really interesting idea powering it and somebody we haven't really talked about.

523
00:43:19.980 --> 00:43:21.119
We talked about lesser episodes.

524
00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:25.079
There's a bunch, 6 or 7 of really great episodes in there.

525
00:43:25.139 --> 00:43:31.500
You know, things like listen, mummy, flatline, dark water, deep breath's pretty good, time heist.

526
00:43:31.559 --> 00:43:31.980
I really like.

527
00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:35.460
It's a series which is still hitting high, I think.

528
00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:38.940
Time Heist is one of the ones for me that is just so surprising.

529
00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:39.780
Like I really love it.

530
00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:43.380
I mean, I also put put Sherwood in that group because I think it's just so funny.

531
00:43:43.380 --> 00:43:44.639
It's probably fun.

532
00:43:44.699 --> 00:43:45.719
I really adore it.

533
00:43:45.780 --> 00:43:51.900
I think there are as good episodes as any other season as this, but this is, you know, after series five.

534
00:43:51.960 --> 00:44:02.940
This is a great series and I think it's criminally underrated, but there's so much that comes to the forefront, like with imperfections that you kind of think, oh, is it actually, like, am I a good doctor?

535
00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:03.719
Is this a good season?

536
00:44:03.960 --> 00:44:06.239
Is this a good question, yeah.

537
00:44:06.300 --> 00:44:06.840
I think it is.

538
00:44:06.900 --> 00:44:09.179
Look, yeah, yeah, well, I don't know.

539
00:44:09.239 --> 00:44:11.159
I mean, I think there's much to recommend it, as you're saying.

540
00:44:11.219 --> 00:44:13.860
There are some great episodes in there.

541
00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:19.139
I think listen for me is the only one that gets to the real heights.

542
00:44:19.199 --> 00:44:22.260
I think, and I love Time Heist as well.

543
00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:25.380
I think all of the others you rattled off are...

544
00:44:25.380 --> 00:44:30.420
Good is, it's kind of, to put it in your palons, kind of todd 7 out of 10.

545
00:44:30.599 --> 00:44:32.280
Like, it's kind of like, yes, they're perfectly fine.

546
00:44:32.340 --> 00:44:39.659
I enjoyed them, but I'm not for some reason, I'm not being drawn into them like I was by so many episodes in series 5, 6, and 7.

547
00:44:39.719 --> 00:44:41.940
And I know that 6 and 7 give.

548
00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:44.460
Yeah, no, see, I think there's some great stuff in it.

549
00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:46.500
There are some also stuff that sort of annoyed me.

550
00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:47.519
I do like it.

551
00:44:47.579 --> 00:44:48.840
I think it's good.

552
00:44:48.900 --> 00:44:52.019
As I said, good lowercase G, good. not outstanding.

553
00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:53.219
And I think there's many more outstanding.

554
00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:57.179
And I think there are those too many episodes which do drag the whole thing down.

555
00:44:57.239 --> 00:44:59.400
Again, I think Mummy, I think is fine.

556
00:44:59.579 --> 00:45:08.639
I'm just not engaged with it, but, you know, and then there are the other episodes which we've already spent too much time on, which are definitely the sort of the weaker ones and they really do let it down.

557
00:45:08.699 --> 00:45:11.159
And I know people don't like things like nightmare in silver that much.

558
00:45:11.159 --> 00:45:13.800
And I know people don't like things like the gang is two-parter.

559
00:45:13.860 --> 00:45:17.760
But I still prefer...

560
00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:19.320
But I still prefer...

561
00:45:19.500 --> 00:45:24.000
I'm much more drawn into the gangers two-parter than I am to about half of this season.

562
00:45:24.059 --> 00:45:29.099
So that kind of shows where I am in terms of the relative levels of the year is.

563
00:45:29.159 --> 00:45:33.000
I'm just saying Stephen Moffat should have gone and, you know, J and T must go now.

564
00:45:33.059 --> 00:45:39.840
I'm still sort of in that zone, partly because I think a producer slash showrunner should only cast one doctor.

565
00:45:39.900 --> 00:45:48.539
Now, I know we had Christopher Eccleston, but that was just a kind of a, obviously like a prologue to the actual run, which was the David Tennant run for ITD.

566
00:45:48.599 --> 00:45:52.860
And likewise, with JNT, he starts to, you know, obviously lose the plot somewhat.

567
00:45:52.920 --> 00:45:58.739
I think the showrunner or producer has put their all into the direction of the show when they cast a doctor.

568
00:45:58.800 --> 00:46:06.960
And then when they need to do that again, I think that's when they sort of go, okay, now we've done plan A. Let's do plan B now.

569
00:46:07.019 --> 00:46:16.380
And plan B is going to be different to plan A. And I think with the RTD era, as I understood it, well, didn't he originally, were they originally talking to Tennant in the 1st instance?

570
00:46:17.579 --> 00:46:21.960
They're always interested in casting David Tennant, but they needed a name to bring it back.

571
00:46:22.019 --> 00:46:23.159
Exactly.

572
00:46:23.219 --> 00:46:34.920
So I wonder whether with the RTD era, they do plan B before they then do plan A. It's interesting, but also, I mean, you can see it in the, what you were saying about kind of, you know, what do you do when you're then casting another doctor.

573
00:46:34.980 --> 00:46:37.619
You know, you have to come up with a completely different approach.

574
00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:40.500
And you can see it in deep breath and the 11th hour.

575
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:46.320
The 11th hour is such an immaculate opening episode for a doctor.

576
00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:46.860
It's spectacular.

577
00:46:46.920 --> 00:46:47.579
Yeah wonderful.

578
00:46:47.639 --> 00:46:56.099
Whereas deep breath is a good episode, but doesn't necessarily do anything very different or bring in something.

579
00:46:56.159 --> 00:47:13.980
But I will say, I will say that I would rail against the idea that Moffat stayed too long. because I think that is undermined by the facts because from my perspective, his 1st season, series 5, this season, series 8, and series 10, are his best seasons.

580
00:47:14.039 --> 00:47:18.000
So you have a critical mass of his best work in the 2nd half of his era.

581
00:47:18.059 --> 00:47:24.659
The only trouble with the series 10 thing is that I actually think most of the episodes in series 10 are not very good.

582
00:47:24.659 --> 00:47:29.340
And what is good is the show. like we're in Bristol.

583
00:47:29.400 --> 00:47:31.320
He's a professor with an office.

584
00:47:31.380 --> 00:47:35.699
We have Bill, we have Nardol, and we have, you know, an incredible finale.

585
00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:42.239
I love series 10, but I actually think the individual episodes and even the Moffat episodes are not that great.

586
00:47:42.300 --> 00:47:43.980
But we have a lovely dynamic.

587
00:47:44.039 --> 00:47:45.300
We have people be liked.

588
00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:45.960
Yeah.

589
00:47:46.019 --> 00:47:47.039
And I think...

590
00:47:47.039 --> 00:47:47.940
She'll she push through that.

591
00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:48.179
Yeah.

592
00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:50.639
And I feel the same way about A as well.

593
00:47:50.699 --> 00:47:59.460
I think 8 works really well, even separate to the question of, are the episodes good because we've given Clara a place to live?

594
00:47:59.519 --> 00:48:11.579
We've given her another character to interact with her relationship with the doctor, you know, the idea that she's sneaking out to go on adventures with the doctor while she has a boyfriend at home.

595
00:48:11.639 --> 00:48:19.559
All of that stuff, it plays into Moffatt's ability to write things set in schools and things that are romantic comedies.

596
00:48:19.679 --> 00:48:26.400
And so for me, I think this series is my favourite Capaldi series for those reasons.

597
00:48:26.519 --> 00:48:37.440
You've now mentioned the other arc, which is the rom-com of Danny and Clara, which I hadn't really picked up on the 1st time through and this time it was actually a joy to watch.

598
00:48:37.500 --> 00:48:43.500
And I think if you buy their relationship and you think they've got chemistry, then you're going to really like that aspect.

599
00:48:43.559 --> 00:48:47.880
And if you don't, then obviously that's problematic as a viewer.

600
00:48:47.940 --> 00:48:52.199
They're both very attractive as well Yeah, I've had date switcher and trap trauma.

601
00:48:52.260 --> 00:48:52.739
No, maybe.

602
00:48:52.739 --> 00:48:54.659
I haven't had dates we shouldn't talk to astronauts.

603
00:48:54.719 --> 00:48:55.980
I've just been on dates with aliens.

604
00:48:59.460 --> 00:49:03.119
Speaking of which, it's time for a stock Marriott void.

605
00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:05.340
So, Nathan.

606
00:49:05.400 --> 00:49:08.940
Perkins, Professor Morehouse or Santa?

607
00:49:09.239 --> 00:49:11.820
I would avoid Perkins.

608
00:49:11.880 --> 00:49:20.400
I'm not quite sure why he's got a kind of he's got a sort of snarky thing going, which I don't really like.

609
00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:23.099
And I know he's a massive Doctor Who fan.

610
00:49:23.159 --> 00:49:28.380
He's a big deal in the UK, but he just seemed a bit saki to me.

611
00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:30.480
Professor Morehouse.

612
00:49:30.539 --> 00:49:34.320
I would, I'd snog Professor Morehouse.

613
00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:35.219
He's a good looking man.

614
00:49:35.280 --> 00:49:41.099
He's still good looking, perhaps even more good looking than he was in the 80s when he appeared in the King's Demons.

615
00:49:41.159 --> 00:49:43.440
And after you talked to him, he could say, come, sir.

616
00:49:43.500 --> 00:49:44.460
Dispatch.

617
00:49:45.059 --> 00:49:52.980
And then obviously I would marry Santa because there's, you know, like a big house in it for me with a lots of presents.

618
00:49:53.039 --> 00:49:56.940
Yeah, yeah, a pole, stripy pole, the whole...

619
00:49:57.000 --> 00:49:57.960
Yeah, let's not.

620
00:49:58.019 --> 00:49:59.099
So yes.

621
00:49:59.159 --> 00:49:59.519
Yeah.

622
00:49:59.579 --> 00:50:06.900
And plus Nick Frost, he's lovely, you know, and I think a gentleman likes having something that he can really sort of grab on too.

623
00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:07.920
Excellent.

624
00:50:07.980 --> 00:50:09.539
So I'm going to go with another one.

625
00:50:09.599 --> 00:50:11.460
Peter, it's not Mario Boyd.

626
00:50:11.519 --> 00:50:15.059
Cy, Dr. Chang, Robin Hood.

627
00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:23.880
Okay, um, I would absolutely marry Si so that then you could um, Snog and other things with him every day.

628
00:50:24.059 --> 00:50:27.420
I think I would avoid what were the other two?

629
00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:29.400
Dr. Chang and Robin Hood.

630
00:50:29.519 --> 00:50:31.619
I would...

631
00:50:31.679 --> 00:50:34.739
Oh, actually, I think I would, I would snog Dr. Chang.

632
00:50:34.800 --> 00:50:35.760
That would be amazing.

633
00:50:35.820 --> 00:50:37.380
Yeah, beck and call.

634
00:50:37.440 --> 00:50:38.880
Robin Hollow over weeks.

635
00:50:38.940 --> 00:50:40.440
I think episodes a bunch of toss.

636
00:50:40.500 --> 00:50:48.059
You know, I actually think that the guy who plays Robin Hood is a very attractive man, but the beard is horrific.

637
00:50:48.119 --> 00:50:49.440
Tom River.

638
00:50:49.500 --> 00:50:51.059
Yeah, I think most beards are horrific.

639
00:50:51.119 --> 00:50:51.420
Sorry.

640
00:50:51.480 --> 00:50:54.840
Sorry. love Robin Hood.

641
00:50:54.900 --> 00:50:55.739
Yeah, yeah.

642
00:50:55.800 --> 00:50:56.760
I think he's very sweet.

643
00:50:57.000 --> 00:51:00.239
All right, let's talk about some of our guest stars this year.

644
00:51:00.300 --> 00:51:02.099
We talked about Michelle Gomez.

645
00:51:02.159 --> 00:51:05.219
Is there anybody else for you that perhaps stands out?

646
00:51:05.340 --> 00:51:07.920
Killy Hawes, is Miss Del Fox at all?

647
00:51:07.980 --> 00:51:08.699
Yeah.

648
00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:11.579
Who do you like?

649
00:51:11.699 --> 00:51:19.019
Um, I think the guy who plays the astronaut related to Danny Pink does a really good job of being like Samuel Anderson.

650
00:51:19.079 --> 00:51:19.559
Yes.

651
00:51:19.619 --> 00:51:20.159
That's true.

652
00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:26.099
Well, as a sorry, nobody we all think of Samuel in the role this year.

653
00:51:26.159 --> 00:51:27.179
I think he's great.

654
00:51:27.239 --> 00:51:28.619
I think he's really, really good.

655
00:51:28.679 --> 00:51:30.360
I mean, yeah.

656
00:51:30.420 --> 00:51:31.800
Yeah, unquestionably.

657
00:51:31.920 --> 00:51:33.719
I think I think he brings a great performance.

658
00:51:33.780 --> 00:51:37.920
Yeah, the more history boys we can get into the show, you know, bring it on. absolutely.

659
00:51:37.980 --> 00:51:41.460
My favourite would have to be Rigsy, the guy that actually plays Rigsy.

660
00:51:41.519 --> 00:51:42.179
I think.

661
00:51:42.239 --> 00:51:46.800
If you count Samuel Anderson as kind of like a part of the regular cast for this purpose.

662
00:51:46.860 --> 00:51:50.699
I also think that Chris Addison in Dark Water is really funny.

663
00:51:50.760 --> 00:51:51.900
Yeah, yeah.

664
00:51:51.960 --> 00:51:52.739
He is pretty good.

665
00:51:52.860 --> 00:51:55.619
I think he takes it a little further than I'd like him, but I do enjoy it.

666
00:51:55.679 --> 00:51:55.920
Yeah.

667
00:51:55.980 --> 00:52:01.380
He does get killed when he does take it. too far. you know, Missy does disintegrate him then.

668
00:52:01.440 --> 00:52:02.340
That's true, actually.

669
00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:03.360
Yes, yes, yes.

670
00:52:03.420 --> 00:52:05.579
I think he's maybe taken it too far even before then.

671
00:52:05.639 --> 00:52:07.380
But anyway, he's there.

672
00:52:07.440 --> 00:52:07.980
He's there.

673
00:52:08.039 --> 00:52:09.659
He's there for a reason.

674
00:52:09.659 --> 00:52:27.480
And he's one of those examples, and I think some of the kind of some of the female villains we've had over the years in the new series have been this as well, is that they kind of lean into the over the top camp villain of often a woman or sort of like a man who reads gay because they were so successful and they're so memorable from the original series.

675
00:52:27.539 --> 00:52:32.760
But in some respect they happen in the original series almost by accident and just because of the production style of the time.

676
00:52:32.820 --> 00:52:44.940
Whereas if you lift them out of, if you lift Miss Winters out of robot and stick her in, or Harrison Chase out of seeds of doom and stick them in the modern era, with proper HD and everything, they would probably be out of place.

677
00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:46.980
And I think that for me is what Chris Addison is doing.

678
00:52:47.039 --> 00:52:52.980
Whereas Michelle Gomez, as Missy, is not doing that, she, for me, is sitting on the right line of over the top.

679
00:52:53.039 --> 00:52:55.139
And speaking of Keeley whores.

680
00:52:55.199 --> 00:53:00.840
I think I mentioned on time heist that I had not really enjoyed Keeley Paws as a performer before that.

681
00:53:00.900 --> 00:53:03.719
I'd seen her in a bunch of things where she was quite cold and unlikeable.

682
00:53:03.780 --> 00:53:10.320
But time heist, I suddenly went, okay, diva, and, you know, it led to such amazing things as it's a sin.

683
00:53:10.440 --> 00:53:12.420
Yeah, I really love her in that too.

684
00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:16.440
I think Ben Miller does a great job is the sheriff of Nottingham.

685
00:53:16.500 --> 00:53:17.760
Yeah, I think he's always good.

686
00:53:17.820 --> 00:53:19.619
Choose the scenery bit, which I always like.

687
00:53:19.800 --> 00:53:21.599
The right amount, though.

688
00:53:21.659 --> 00:53:22.380
That's right.

689
00:53:22.440 --> 00:53:25.019
It's great to see Sheila Reed back as grand.

690
00:53:25.079 --> 00:53:27.179
Is she back or is this her?

691
00:53:27.239 --> 00:53:28.860
Yep, no, she's back.

692
00:53:28.920 --> 00:53:30.960
Oh, yes, yes, yes.

693
00:53:31.019 --> 00:53:31.380
Yes.

694
00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:40.860
And then, of course, we have Ingrid Oliver as Osgood, which we mentioned she's just glorious and the wonderful, the wonderful Gemma Redgrave, Peter.

695
00:53:40.920 --> 00:53:46.199
I actually like her a bit more in this 2 partner at the end, actually.

696
00:53:46.260 --> 00:53:48.239
I mean, yeah, she's all right.

697
00:53:48.300 --> 00:53:52.739
She's never better than when she's flying through the air about to splash on the ground.

698
00:53:52.800 --> 00:53:55.440
Yeah, I don't know.

699
00:53:55.440 --> 00:53:56.219
How generous.

700
00:53:57.179 --> 00:54:00.239
I don't have anything necessarily against her.

701
00:54:00.300 --> 00:54:06.599
It's just it feels like the unit personnel from the two-parter in series 4. where you just get new.

702
00:54:06.659 --> 00:54:10.860
You know, I want my unit personnel to be like the brigadier and Benton and Yates.

703
00:54:10.920 --> 00:54:16.440
So I know, you know, there might be issues with performance, whatever, but you got to know them and they felt warm and comfortable.

704
00:54:16.500 --> 00:54:20.219
Whereas none of these new unit personnel who've been introduced in the new series.

705
00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:21.539
Do anything or go anywhere.

706
00:54:21.599 --> 00:54:23.400
They're utterly faceless, and she's one of them.

707
00:54:23.460 --> 00:54:24.719
I think...

708
00:54:24.719 --> 00:54:26.159
No, I think I think I was good.

709
00:54:26.219 --> 00:54:26.340
Yeah.

710
00:54:26.880 --> 00:54:28.800
I think I've got all the guys.

711
00:54:28.800 --> 00:54:31.679
And I also like Captain Magumbo from a few years ago.

712
00:54:31.739 --> 00:54:32.519
She was fantastic.

713
00:54:32.579 --> 00:54:35.519
I think she deserved it. come back.

714
00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:36.599
Yes.

715
00:54:36.659 --> 00:54:39.719
Michelle Morris is the Annalise of this season.

716
00:54:39.960 --> 00:54:42.239
She's the school secretary.

717
00:54:42.300 --> 00:54:46.800
I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to have her also in the caretaker, but that didn't happen.

718
00:54:46.860 --> 00:54:54.000
Moffatt has a great school secretary in press gang, a really great one who's a very memorable character.

719
00:54:54.059 --> 00:55:12.179
So I'm glad to see him attempting another school secretary in series A. All right, so here's some other questions.

720
00:55:12.239 --> 00:55:15.360
What do we think about the opening titles and music now that we've had them for a year?

721
00:55:15.420 --> 00:55:17.460
Oh, the music's excruciating.

722
00:55:17.460 --> 00:55:18.179
Hate them.

723
00:55:18.599 --> 00:55:25.500
I'm actually looking forward to seeing the series 9 version with the Blue Cox.

724
00:55:25.559 --> 00:55:26.940
Is that what happens or did I dream that?

725
00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:30.900
I don't know, but I do like the 1st half of them.

726
00:55:31.019 --> 00:55:34.679
And then less so in the 2nd little spirally bit.

727
00:55:34.800 --> 00:55:35.820
Yeah, terrible.

728
00:55:35.880 --> 00:55:37.019
Dreadful music.

729
00:55:37.079 --> 00:55:39.900
It just goes to show, and I don't want to go off on a Murray Gold moment here.

730
00:55:39.960 --> 00:55:51.179
I'm not a fan of him, not because I don't think he's a good composer because I think he is, and I think he does do some great music and the great, the theme of, certainly the ITD era theme and music is fantastic.

731
00:55:51.239 --> 00:55:57.239
It all suits that, but again, it comes back to like producers and showrunners and casting doctors and stuff.

732
00:55:57.300 --> 00:56:00.119
Murray Gold has already arranged the theme.

733
00:56:00.179 --> 00:56:03.239
Not once, not twice, but 3 times.

734
00:56:03.239 --> 00:56:06.119
And I think by the time we get to the 3rd time.

735
00:56:06.179 --> 00:56:15.480
Well, allowing for the fact that some of them are just kind of souped up bits like that that that's remixes, that that happened in the 1st 17 years of the show, even though we had fundamentally the same thing.

736
00:56:15.539 --> 00:56:18.840
Again, he's done what his vision of the Doctor Who theme is, right?

737
00:56:18.900 --> 00:56:21.900
And yes, you can ask him to do it again and it comes out okay.

738
00:56:21.960 --> 00:56:28.739
But then, well, actually, I think his best one is actually the series 7B opening theme and opening credits.

739
00:56:28.800 --> 00:56:31.500
That for me is the high watermark of the entirety of the new series.

740
00:56:31.559 --> 00:56:33.059
But then by the time you get to the capacity one.

741
00:56:33.179 --> 00:56:34.800
It's like, 0 God, he's really run out of ideas.

742
00:56:34.860 --> 00:56:37.860
Bring in someone new to add some new flavour to the music.

743
00:56:37.920 --> 00:56:38.880
Please, please.

744
00:56:38.940 --> 00:56:45.119
And when that happens, I do think that the next version of the theme that is yet to come is extremely good.

745
00:56:45.179 --> 00:56:48.659
Also, the opening credits are just so generic and cheap looking.

746
00:56:48.780 --> 00:56:51.900
Oh, I mean, it's a nice idea, but awful.

747
00:56:51.960 --> 00:56:53.400
Yeah, it's a nice, exactly.

748
00:56:53.460 --> 00:56:55.260
It a nice idea, but poorly executed, I think.

749
00:56:55.559 --> 00:56:58.800
Give us some Peter Capaldi shaped time tunnel any day.

750
00:56:58.860 --> 00:57:00.059
Absolutely.

751
00:57:00.059 --> 00:57:03.420
Okay, speaking of Peter Capaldi, what do we think of his performance?

752
00:57:03.539 --> 00:57:10.500
Oh, I think he's astoundingly good and every bit as good as Matt Smith, I think, as the doctor.

753
00:57:10.559 --> 00:57:11.940
It's an incredible performance.

754
00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:14.099
He's so watchable, so interesting.

755
00:57:14.159 --> 00:57:15.539
He's funny.

756
00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:18.059
He, you know, he can do everything.

757
00:57:18.119 --> 00:57:19.079
I think he's amazing.

758
00:57:19.139 --> 00:57:27.000
I think his best scene in isolation of the series might be the one where Clara is threatening to destroy the TARDIS keys.

759
00:57:27.059 --> 00:57:27.599
Yeah.

760
00:57:27.599 --> 00:57:41.280
And he really kind of gives a lot of drama to that scene, but also endless kindness when he when he actually tells Clara what the situation is and that she actually wasn't out on the on the ledge getting rid of the keys.

761
00:57:41.340 --> 00:57:44.159
And I think that might be his best moment of the season.

762
00:57:44.219 --> 00:57:45.539
It's really coming together by that point.

763
00:57:45.599 --> 00:57:47.099
Simon.

764
00:57:47.159 --> 00:57:48.539
Yeah, spectacular.

765
00:57:48.599 --> 00:57:50.820
I mean, he's he's so believable.

766
00:57:50.880 --> 00:57:53.280
The performance feels incredibly consistent.

767
00:57:53.340 --> 00:57:57.960
Like, I don't feel like he's performing one scene one way.

768
00:57:58.019 --> 00:58:01.980
And then, oh, now the script tells me to do this, so I'm going to perform the next scene a different way.

769
00:58:02.039 --> 00:58:07.559
It's all recognisably the same character and his timing is just perfect as he delivers lines.

770
00:58:07.619 --> 00:58:13.320
Is it a doctor performance that's actually just been honed in his head for like 40 years or something?

771
00:58:13.380 --> 00:58:14.099
It's like...

772
00:58:14.099 --> 00:58:18.719
Exactly. become like totally... is how I'm going to do it.

773
00:58:18.780 --> 00:58:19.440
Yeah, absolutely.

774
00:58:19.500 --> 00:58:22.980
And you can see, you can see the fan in his performance.

775
00:58:23.039 --> 00:58:26.519
He knows what he's doing and not a kind of in a cod performance.

776
00:58:26.579 --> 00:58:31.199
You can see that he knows the other doctors so well that he can, he's channelling Tom.

777
00:58:31.260 --> 00:58:33.059
He's channelling pertwi in the main.

778
00:58:33.119 --> 00:58:35.219
I think those two, but yeah, he knows what he's doing.

779
00:58:35.280 --> 00:58:38.820
I didn't think that anybody could talk Matt Smith.

780
00:58:38.940 --> 00:58:44.820
And so we could. didn't think.

781
00:58:45.179 --> 00:58:45.900
Thank you, Peter.

782
00:58:45.960 --> 00:58:56.340
I didn't think Matt Smith would be superseded by someone else as my favourite doctor, but by the end of this season and certainly with last Christmas, that's where I'm at.

783
00:58:56.400 --> 00:59:01.019
So quickly, yeah, I just adore watching him and everything that he does.

784
00:59:01.079 --> 00:59:03.119
Now, Jenna Coleman.

785
00:59:03.480 --> 00:59:05.820
She's pretty good this season.

786
00:59:05.880 --> 00:59:09.059
I mean, I do have a lot of problems with the character of Clara.

787
00:59:09.119 --> 00:59:16.619
I think they start to write the ship and once they they give her Danny, which really brings a lot of shade to the character, I think.

788
00:59:16.679 --> 00:59:18.960
And the problem has never been Jenna.

789
00:59:18.960 --> 00:59:20.400
Jenna is a good performer.

790
00:59:20.460 --> 00:59:35.099
I don't think she's a very warm performer, and that has undermined Clara occasionally where maybe things have landed in a bit of a colder fashion than they were meant to, but I think she's undoubtedly in the upper echelon of people who've played companions.

791
00:59:35.159 --> 00:59:36.599
It's funny, isn't it?

792
00:59:36.659 --> 00:59:50.940
They make a deliberate effort in series 7 to give her children to look after and people to look after in order to kind of warm her up a bit, but I do think that she does have a sort of ironic detachment or something in the way that she plays it.

793
00:59:51.000 --> 00:59:53.159
I think she's remarkable.

794
00:59:53.219 --> 01:00:02.099
I think there's very rarely been companion acting as good. as what we get from Jenna at the end of Kilamoon.

795
01:00:02.159 --> 01:00:02.880
For instance.

796
01:00:02.940 --> 01:00:04.500
I think that's an incredible scene.

797
01:00:04.559 --> 01:00:10.260
And a little bit more on the side of kind of heightened realism than we normally get as well.

798
01:00:10.320 --> 01:00:12.000
I think it's extremely well done.

799
01:00:12.059 --> 01:00:16.800
I think she's really great in that scene that you mentioned, Peter, in dark water as well.

800
01:00:16.860 --> 01:00:18.900
I think she's good.

801
01:00:19.019 --> 01:00:22.739
I still think she is sort of, I don't know, she is very generic.

802
01:00:22.800 --> 01:00:23.760
Maybe that's okay.

803
01:00:23.820 --> 01:00:33.239
She isn't an audience identification figure, but I think maybe that ship sailed and the doctor is our audience identification figure now anyway.

804
01:00:33.300 --> 01:00:34.739
So that's probably okay.

805
01:00:34.860 --> 01:00:38.219
I think Danny's our audience identification this season.

806
01:00:38.280 --> 01:00:43.980
Well, except that we kind of want Clara to travel with a doctor and he doesn't.

807
01:00:44.159 --> 01:00:47.280
Yeah, and yeah. we don't agree with him, do we?

808
01:00:47.340 --> 01:00:52.920
No, no, no, to be the audience identification figure, yeah, you need to be wanting to go into the Tartar to step over that threshold.

809
01:00:53.039 --> 01:00:56.099
It's that season 19 Tegan problem.

810
01:00:56.159 --> 01:01:02.820
We can't really get on board with her because her wife is so fundamentally the opposite of what we want.

811
01:01:03.239 --> 01:01:04.679
Exactly.

812
01:01:04.739 --> 01:01:07.260
Yeah, no, I think she's awesome.

813
01:01:07.320 --> 01:01:08.639
I really love her.

814
01:01:08.760 --> 01:01:12.300
But I've loved virtually all the performers in this new era.

815
01:01:12.360 --> 01:01:13.920
I think they're all, you know, quality.

816
01:01:13.980 --> 01:01:17.519
I mean, she's one of the most quality actors we've had as a companion.

817
01:01:17.579 --> 01:01:19.380
I mean, she goes on to be Queen Victoria, for goodness sake.

818
01:01:19.440 --> 01:01:20.820
She has a real career.

819
01:01:20.820 --> 01:01:28.320
But I also love, I do like the way that the character does slightly change between the 2 doctors.

820
01:01:28.380 --> 01:01:33.119
It's so it's just so wonderful to have a companion who properly straddles 2 doctors.

821
01:01:33.179 --> 01:01:34.800
It happens so rarely.

822
01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:41.639
But you even don't get it much with Tegan and Nissa because they're only just at the very end of Tom.

823
01:01:41.880 --> 01:01:45.119
The only one really is some is Liz Sladen.

824
01:01:45.179 --> 01:01:48.239
It's just comparable Having a proper a proper run with 2 doctors.

825
01:01:48.300 --> 01:01:49.260
And Rose, of course.

826
01:01:49.320 --> 01:01:50.699
Oh yeah, Rose.

827
01:01:50.760 --> 01:02:06.539
I just love all the quite a moment when Jenna's reacting to stuff in the background, especially in that last episode when she's not the focus, it's all the doctor, Missy, and Danny, and she just sells everything so well with looks and the big eyes.

828
01:02:21.599 --> 01:02:22.920
This is one to watch from this season.

829
01:02:22.980 --> 01:02:23.940
Simon.

830
01:02:24.059 --> 01:02:25.559
Listen, Peter.

831
01:02:25.619 --> 01:02:26.940
Time heist.

832
01:02:27.599 --> 01:02:29.820
I'm thinking, listen as well.

833
01:02:29.880 --> 01:02:34.619
I think, listen, is extremely good, and I will choose Flatline.

834
01:02:34.679 --> 01:02:35.820
One to avoid.

835
01:02:36.300 --> 01:02:40.440
In the forest of the night, in the forest of the night.

836
01:02:40.559 --> 01:02:41.820
The caretaker.

837
01:02:41.880 --> 01:02:43.320
Kill the moon.

838
01:02:43.500 --> 01:02:45.239
One that got away.

839
01:02:45.360 --> 01:02:46.679
Well, it's the same 3 episodes.

840
01:02:46.739 --> 01:02:48.119
Say, same 3 episodes that keep coming up.

841
01:02:48.179 --> 01:02:54.780
In fact, it's the same 3 episodes that we're the ones to watch and the ones to avoid, really, in terms of the ones we've been talking about.

842
01:02:54.840 --> 01:02:56.940
And one that's gotten away from us all.

843
01:02:57.000 --> 01:02:58.380
Like Hidden Gem.

844
01:02:58.440 --> 01:03:06.300
Actually, I think Time Heist was my hidden gem, in which case I'll change my original answer and say flatline, this one to watch.

845
01:03:06.360 --> 01:03:11.579
Yeah, I actually never find myself thinking of Flatline when I think of this series, but gosh, I enjoyed it this time.

846
01:03:11.699 --> 01:03:14.940
I think it is really properly good Yeah, smart and worse.

847
01:03:14.940 --> 01:03:16.019
I was actually thinking flatline as well.

848
01:03:16.079 --> 01:03:19.920
Yeah, flatline is as the hidden gem for me because I had forgotten it.

849
01:03:19.980 --> 01:03:21.539
Sorry, I hadn't forgotten it.

850
01:03:21.599 --> 01:03:24.659
I was aware that it was there, but I'd forgotten.

851
01:03:24.719 --> 01:03:26.039
Actually, this is really, really good.

852
01:03:26.099 --> 01:03:33.960
I think because so many of the episodes around it are ones that I either am very lukewarm too or think are terrible.

853
01:03:34.019 --> 01:03:52.980
And so it's the one little beacon in that back half of the season for me, which is actually impressively properly good, not just with a small G, but with a capital G. It's also doing the thing, the things around that point of the season, which is just pushing Doctor Who into the realms of magic even further than sort of other episodes do.

854
01:03:53.039 --> 01:03:57.000
But because it's so strong, we don't care and most people don't notice, I think.

855
01:03:57.119 --> 01:03:59.880
And Rigsy is such a lender with a Y.

856
01:03:59.940 --> 01:04:02.699
He's just such companion potential.

857
01:04:03.119 --> 01:04:07.980
My episode would be time heist because I really just think it's forgotten.

858
01:04:08.039 --> 01:04:13.559
And I'll always, also include Robert of Sherwood, because I just have to.

859
01:04:13.619 --> 01:04:16.380
But Time Heist is that wonderful doctor thing.

860
01:04:16.440 --> 01:04:18.000
It's the best thing in the Dog 2 canon.

861
01:04:18.059 --> 01:04:20.699
It's a normal regular episode done really well.

862
01:04:20.760 --> 01:04:21.420
Yeah.

863
01:04:21.420 --> 01:04:23.519
I really want science able to come back.

864
01:04:23.579 --> 01:04:26.159
They make such a great team with the doctor and Clara.

865
01:04:26.219 --> 01:04:32.280
It's almost like we're going to jettison the Paternoster gang and I could see them coming back, but they don't, of course.

866
01:04:32.340 --> 01:04:33.239
Well, I am married to him.

867
01:04:33.300 --> 01:04:33.840
I'll ask him.

868
01:04:33.900 --> 01:04:34.920
Thank you.

869
01:04:34.980 --> 01:04:35.699
All right.

870
01:04:35.760 --> 01:04:38.639
Jenny, Jenny Laird Award nominations now for the season.

871
01:04:38.699 --> 01:04:48.659
Yes, I am giving a Jenny Laird award to Stephen Moffat for asking Gareth Roberts to come back and do the same thing for the 3rd time.

872
01:04:48.719 --> 01:04:51.119
I think that the lodger is brilliant.

873
01:04:51.179 --> 01:05:06.239
I think that closing time is good, but there's a very clear trajectory outlined by both of them and when we hit the caretaker, the writer's own personality, I think, bleeds through a little bit too much and it just ends up being horrible.

874
01:05:06.599 --> 01:05:17.219
I'll go with the whole PE storyline, which I think is just, it could have been much subtler, but it's just sledgehammered in and it just really doesn't work.

875
01:05:17.280 --> 01:05:24.300
And I also will go to the performance of Hermione Norris in Kill the Moon that just kills that episode for me.

876
01:05:24.360 --> 01:05:25.260
Oh yeah.

877
01:05:25.320 --> 01:05:27.420
She's as good as that woman in 42.

878
01:05:27.599 --> 01:05:29.219
I think she's better than that.

879
01:05:29.280 --> 01:05:29.820
Yeah.

880
01:05:29.820 --> 01:05:34.079
Captain blonde hair, red lipstick from Nightmare and Silver.

881
01:05:34.139 --> 01:05:34.800
Yeah.

882
01:05:35.340 --> 01:05:50.519
I would give my Jenny Lead award, I think, to whoever thought that you would be able to mount overgrown London well in a Doctor Who episode rather than just going into the New Forest and erecting the base of Nelson's column and thinking that that was going to look fine.

883
01:05:51.840 --> 01:05:55.559
I'll just expand on Todd's award there.

884
01:05:55.619 --> 01:05:56.460
I'd agree with that.

885
01:05:56.519 --> 01:06:03.179
But if I can sort of expand it, not just the sort of the PE thing, the way Capaldi treats Danny.

886
01:06:03.239 --> 01:06:08.280
It's just also the whole thing that what are they really trying to do here with the military thing?

887
01:06:08.340 --> 01:06:15.000
I know Doctor Who's always had a certain anti-establishment thing, which, you know, was particularly prevalent in the Pertwhe era.

888
01:06:15.119 --> 01:06:23.099
You know, the pert, we always made fun and teased the brigadier and basically our typical of the military mind and all that sort of stuff.

889
01:06:23.159 --> 01:06:25.980
And, you know, all the military...

890
01:06:25.980 --> 01:06:29.880
But was also extremely happy when the brigadier would show up and shoot an Ogron for him.

891
01:06:29.940 --> 01:06:31.800
For example, yes, exactly.

892
01:06:31.860 --> 01:06:37.860
And I think they've allowed going kind of back to Nathan to what you sort of are mentioning about Gareth Roberts.

893
01:06:37.920 --> 01:06:51.599
I think this is actually something where I think the writers, perhaps their prejudices are showing in the scripts in a way that I think is not properly thought through, if you know what I mean.

894
01:06:51.659 --> 01:06:59.159
Like it's kind of I can I can see what they were trying to do, but it's so mishandled that it's a puzzling creative choice.

895
01:06:59.219 --> 01:07:08.940
Except, though, that in death in heaven, we come down on the side of the doctor being wrong about that all the way through.

896
01:07:09.000 --> 01:07:14.579
And Danny demonstrates that the doctor has been wrong to have this attitude to soldiers.

897
01:07:14.639 --> 01:07:20.400
And then I actually, in our death in heaven episode, have things to say about that as a creative choice.

898
01:07:20.460 --> 01:07:32.340
I don't know if that payoff is worth it because then you've got an entire season with the doctor dissing daddy, which is just a tone deaf in so many weird ways for a payoff that's not really worth it.

899
01:07:32.400 --> 01:07:52.860
Yeah, yeah. that's right Yeah, it's so tied up in that whole, the Iraq and Afghanistan thing, that it's, which, as I think I said in the, in the Darkwater episode, the Doctor Who is not the Forum to deal with these issues, head on, you do that through allegory and, and, and, and, all that sort of stuff.

900
01:07:52.920 --> 01:07:53.760
Yeah, the Savine.

901
01:07:53.820 --> 01:07:56.699
But yeah, yeah, yeah, the Slovene, et cetera.

902
01:07:56.820 --> 01:08:00.000
You know, you don't do it sort of front on, echoing what Peter said.

903
01:08:00.059 --> 01:08:02.400
I think the payoff, it may be a payoff.

904
01:08:02.460 --> 01:08:06.719
There may be a thing that the doctor comes down and says, okay, well, yes, you're right. the military have their uses.

905
01:08:06.780 --> 01:08:16.319
But it's just, it's just wrong for it to be constantly through the season all the time, week in week, especially because most members of the general audience are not going to be watching every episode.

906
01:08:16.380 --> 01:08:18.659
And it's like the reaction that we had to Vietnam.

907
01:08:18.720 --> 01:08:26.640
Like, you know, all the soldiers came back from Vietnam, in America and Australia, and public attitudes turned against the war.

908
01:08:26.699 --> 01:08:31.619
And so for a while, Vietnam veterans were appallingly treated.

909
01:08:31.680 --> 01:08:33.539
Now, I don't know whether that's really happened.

910
01:08:33.600 --> 01:08:39.239
I don't get the sense, though, that that's happened with Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, but it certainly happened with Vietnam veterans.

911
01:08:39.300 --> 01:08:49.020
And then we learned in the 80s that that was a terrible way to treat the soldiers who had gone there, the men and women who'd served in these places, because it wasn't their fault that they were sent there.

912
01:08:49.079 --> 01:08:54.000
And I think that's where that's where the fundamental error is made.

913
01:08:54.060 --> 01:09:02.159
And that also comes down to, you know, Danny having killed that child we find out about in dark water.

914
01:09:02.220 --> 01:09:07.140
It's just a bit too close to reality.

915
01:09:07.199 --> 01:09:11.640
I do find it a bit tasteless, the entire approach taken there.

916
01:09:11.699 --> 01:09:15.060
And it kind of, even though, even though they're not exactly the same thing.

917
01:09:15.119 --> 01:09:21.359
Once you reach the end of the season, you have the cyber brigadier, for good or for bad, if people think that's a good idea or a bad idea.

918
01:09:21.420 --> 01:09:22.619
I don't think it's a good idea.

919
01:09:22.680 --> 01:09:23.579
It's also tasteless.

920
01:09:23.699 --> 01:09:24.600
Yeah, yeah.

921
01:09:24.659 --> 01:09:25.739
I think that's the problem.

922
01:09:25.800 --> 01:09:28.020
And it's the brigadier, the brigadier thing is tasty.

923
01:09:28.079 --> 01:09:38.100
In fact, maybe the whole thing is then summarised by, I think, the most puzzling creative choice is to have the brigadier come back as a sideman. something that I struggle to get over and I'm very unhappy about.

924
01:09:38.159 --> 01:09:40.260
It's so bafflingly weird, isn't it?

925
01:09:40.319 --> 01:09:52.979
Because the story has literally everyone who's died, comes back as a cyberman and of course it's Doctor Who say that will never be mentioned again, even though it is sort of sort of giant and massive and stuff.

926
01:09:53.399 --> 01:10:10.020
And I don't want Doctor Who to rein it back in because it's doing something that's too big and too ridiculous, particularly since, you know, there were a lot of sleepy English villagers invaded by aliens in a way that had no impact on anyone more than kind of 5 miles away.

927
01:10:10.079 --> 01:10:13.800
So it's nice to see Doctor Who attempt to be, you know.

928
01:10:13.859 --> 01:10:16.199
I don't want to say don't go big.

929
01:10:16.380 --> 01:10:19.020
Yes, I will always like trying.

930
01:10:19.140 --> 01:10:20.760
I will always like, let's have an idea.

931
01:10:20.819 --> 01:10:21.539
Let's go for it.

932
01:10:21.600 --> 01:10:37.560
But I think I think the problem where with the showrunner model where the effectively the producer and the writer, headwriter, are the same person, is that you don't really have someone there with the power to say, can we just think that through a little bit before we?

933
01:10:37.680 --> 01:10:38.640
Not a good idea.

934
01:10:38.699 --> 01:10:39.779
Exactly.

935
01:10:39.840 --> 01:10:42.960
It's basically that old JNT thing saying, not at 735.

936
01:10:43.319 --> 01:10:43.859
Do you know what I mean?

937
01:10:43.920 --> 01:10:48.600
It's someone's got to be there to say, oh, yes, absolutely.

938
01:10:48.659 --> 01:10:50.939
Think big, do things you've never done before.

939
01:10:51.000 --> 01:10:57.479
Let's explore the possible, but have just someone needs to say every now and again say, just wait.

940
01:10:57.539 --> 01:10:58.020
Stop.

941
01:10:58.199 --> 01:11:01.079
Julie Gardner will be back quite soon.

942
01:11:01.140 --> 01:11:02.579
It's going to be okay.

943
01:11:02.640 --> 01:11:03.239
Okay.

944
01:11:03.300 --> 01:11:04.800
I don't know whether she did that.

945
01:11:04.859 --> 01:11:08.880
All right, our Bonnie Langford Award for Startling Discovery.

946
01:11:08.939 --> 01:11:20.460
I'm going to go with Jamie Matheson, the writer of Mummy and Flatline, who I think is brilliant. and Rachel Tellalay. who directs the final 2 parter and she will do so for a few years to come.

947
01:11:20.520 --> 01:11:24.359
I think they're both great and the whole Clara having a character.

948
01:11:24.840 --> 01:11:27.239
I'm going to go for Courtney.

949
01:11:27.359 --> 01:11:29.039
I think she's really terrific.

950
01:11:29.100 --> 01:11:31.680
And more like that, please.

951
01:11:31.739 --> 01:11:35.760
I'll go for Samuel Anderson because I think he's really good in the role.

952
01:11:35.819 --> 01:11:36.600
Yeah, hot.

953
01:11:36.659 --> 01:11:37.319
Oh, good.

954
01:11:37.439 --> 01:11:37.859
Yeah, good.

955
01:11:38.640 --> 01:11:47.220
I'm going to go for Rigsey then because I think, like Courtney, I think he feels an important and it's a shame that we only get to see him once more.

956
01:11:47.340 --> 01:11:47.819
Is that it?

957
01:11:47.880 --> 01:11:48.720
Is it just the one small?

958
01:11:48.779 --> 01:11:49.680
Yeah.

959
01:11:49.739 --> 01:11:51.600
He would have been nice to appeared a couple more times.

960
01:11:51.659 --> 01:11:52.800
Not too many, just a couple more.

961
01:11:53.279 --> 01:11:55.619
I'm glad you mentioned Courtney.

962
01:11:55.680 --> 01:11:59.699
She certainly the best of the children actors this year, and that's all I'm going to say about that, people.

963
01:11:59.880 --> 01:12:04.020
So...

964
01:12:04.199 --> 01:12:06.420
That's okay.

965
01:12:06.479 --> 01:12:08.880
Oh, Artie, but isn't he last year?

966
01:12:08.939 --> 01:12:09.300
Yeah.

967
01:12:09.300 --> 01:12:13.079
Yeah, no, I'm just, they managed to put most of them all into that one episode.

968
01:12:13.140 --> 01:12:15.000
So, you know, thank God.

969
01:12:15.060 --> 01:12:18.840
All right, now, finally, series nine.

970
01:12:18.899 --> 01:12:21.359
Looking forward looking to the future.

971
01:12:21.420 --> 01:12:22.439
Where does it sit with you?

972
01:12:22.500 --> 01:12:28.260
So, I'm merely a person here that was recording flights through entirety when season 9 came out.

973
01:12:28.319 --> 01:12:40.739
And so as a result, because we were doing the black and white era, and I was having to watch something like 30 episodes of Doctor Who, a month or whatever, I watched series 9 once.

974
01:12:40.800 --> 01:12:46.619
Like you, Simon, I watched series 9 once, then I watched it when I got the Blu-ray and then I've never really gone back to it.

975
01:12:46.680 --> 01:12:57.659
I did once trying to do it again and didn't get past the, I was going to say the magician's nephew, but I mean the magician's apprentice.

976
01:12:57.720 --> 01:13:00.479
And I actually enjoyed the magician's apprentice.

977
01:13:00.539 --> 01:13:03.840
I think it's really good, but somehow I just found myself not going any further.

978
01:13:03.899 --> 01:13:13.260
So for me, this is the season of Doctor Who that I'm least familiar with and I'm really looking forward to finding out what the hell I think about it.

979
01:13:13.319 --> 01:13:15.180
Yeah, so I would agree with that, Nathan.

980
01:13:15.239 --> 01:13:16.199
I've only seen it once.

981
01:13:16.260 --> 01:13:19.680
I think the takeaway was that it was startlingly dreary.

982
01:13:20.039 --> 01:13:22.439
I want to know if I'm wrong in that.

983
01:13:23.579 --> 01:13:25.680
Yeah, me too.

984
01:13:25.739 --> 01:13:28.920
I remember as being dreary, not particularly good.

985
01:13:28.979 --> 01:13:35.640
There are some great moments like, I think, and I can't, I get, I get the titles around the wrong way, but heaven sent.

986
01:13:37.560 --> 01:13:39.960
Heaven's sense is the one.

987
01:13:40.020 --> 01:13:48.420
Heaven Sense is the 1st one where he's just Capaldi. which is, I think, one of the best episodes ever. absolutely 100%.

988
01:13:48.479 --> 01:14:03.060
I like the opening to part and more for Missy and particularly her relationship with Clara, which I think is the perfect echo of the frontier and space relationship with Delgado and Katie with, believe it or not, Miss Grant, I've come to take you away from all this.

989
01:14:03.119 --> 01:14:06.060
And there's just so many moments like that. is so great.

990
01:14:06.119 --> 01:14:08.460
But as a whole, I'm going to push Joe into a pit.

991
01:14:10.020 --> 01:14:10.800
No, I know.

992
01:14:10.800 --> 01:14:12.119
But Jet Diggy is so funny.

993
01:14:12.119 --> 01:14:12.840
That is so funny.

994
01:14:12.840 --> 01:14:15.359
To test how deep it was, right?

995
01:14:15.420 --> 01:14:16.800
Yes, exactly.

996
01:14:16.859 --> 01:14:32.880
But I do, that's a highlight, but as a whole, I'm remembering that this is where I really start to lose interest in the series and I start to look at my watch and go, God, how much more of this episode is there, with a few exceptions, as I've mentioned.

997
01:14:32.939 --> 01:14:36.600
And I'm curious to know whether I'll have the same reaction when I watch it through again.

998
01:14:36.659 --> 01:14:37.920
I worry that I will.

999
01:14:38.279 --> 01:14:41.340
Yes, it feels like a series, I think.

1000
01:14:41.399 --> 01:14:43.979
And again, I may be proved wrong, that is marking time.

1001
01:14:44.039 --> 01:14:49.859
It's, it's a series that has reached, it's, the show has reached its ninth season and you think, where are you going with this?

1002
01:14:49.920 --> 01:14:53.520
It feels like it doesn't have proper forward momentum, but we'll see.

1003
01:14:53.579 --> 01:14:57.659
And I guess for me, it's, has Clara stayed too long?

1004
01:14:57.720 --> 01:14:59.880
Do all these two-parters work.

1005
01:14:59.939 --> 01:15:13.020
I adore the flood 2 parter, and I really like the missy stuff in the Dalek 2 parter, and obviously heaven sent, and the high drama of sleep no more, and the raven, but the other episodes, we'll see.

1006
01:15:37.079 --> 01:15:39.720
Well, B, sir, that's all we have time for for now.

1007
01:15:39.840 --> 01:15:45.359
We'll be back in a few weeks to finally put some important arcs to bed in last Christmas.

1008
01:15:45.840 --> 01:16:03.479
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us on our website, FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our accounts on Facebook, Twitter, and Mastodon, as well as links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody Interterra, maximum power, and untitled Star Trek project.

1009
01:16:03.539 --> 01:16:08.819
Until next time, remember you can't really tell if something's an addiction till you try and give it up.

1010
01:16:08.880 --> 01:16:15.960
Incidentally, stay tuned for news about our 2 new Doctor Who projects later this year and in early 2024.

1011
01:16:16.199 --> 01:16:18.600
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1012
01:16:18.659 --> 01:16:20.039
See you soon.

1013
01:16:20.100 --> 01:16:21.180
Good night.

1014
01:16:21.239 --> 01:16:21.659
Bye bye.

1015
01:16:28.140 --> 01:16:33.840
That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Todd Bealby, Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffith, and Simon Moore.

1016
01:16:33.899 --> 01:16:36.000
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1017
01:16:36.060 --> 01:16:41.819
This episode, New Life Crisis, was recorded on the 18th of June 2023 and released on the 9th of July.

1018
01:16:43.140 --> 01:16:50.520
Once again, thank you to everyone who's listened to our nonsense so far this year, and particular thanks to those of you who've contacted us online.

1019
01:16:50.579 --> 01:16:56.699
We'll be back with the Christmas special on the 25th of July and our series 9 coverage. happen later in the year.

1020
01:16:56.760 --> 01:16:58.260
We'll see you then.

1021
01:17:02.760 --> 01:17:05.220
So we did last Christmas last night.

1022
01:17:05.640 --> 01:17:15.960
And we observed that the arc doesn't really make any sense without last Christmas, but this is actually going out before last Christmas.

1023
01:17:16.140 --> 01:17:18.779
Last Christmas, it's not part of this retrospective.

1024
01:17:18.779 --> 01:17:19.079
Yep.

1025
01:17:19.199 --> 01:17:22.319
But we will because I haven't talked about that.

1026
01:17:22.380 --> 01:17:25.319
That's the one I haven't watched yet, so that'll work.

1027
01:17:25.380 --> 01:17:26.520
Yeah, yeah.

1028
01:17:26.579 --> 01:17:27.119
No that's fine.

1029
01:17:27.180 --> 01:17:30.840
So I can't talk about the season cohesively without...

1030
01:17:30.899 --> 01:17:31.260
Yeah, yeah.

1031
01:17:31.319 --> 01:17:35.039
I mean, we'll say that they, you know, yeah, all this stuff. fixes itself.

1032
01:17:35.100 --> 01:17:42.899
All right, I have a very long sentence, which should not be delivered without proper medical jaw and lung supervision.

1033
01:17:43.439 --> 01:17:45.060
Here goes.

1034
01:17:45.119 --> 01:17:48.779
Oh, Nathan Todd, Peter.

1035
01:17:48.840 --> 01:17:50.819
And I'll try and leave a gap this time.

1036
01:17:52.500 --> 01:17:54.899
Yes, you will to go first.

1037
01:17:54.960 --> 01:17:57.600
Yeah, no, you can tell me to go first.

1038
01:17:57.659 --> 01:17:58.739
You go before me time.

1039
01:17:58.800 --> 01:18:00.479
No, no, no.

1040
01:18:00.479 --> 01:18:02.579
The remote the remote voice should be last.

1041
01:18:02.579 --> 01:18:03.239
It doesn't matter.

1042
01:18:03.300 --> 01:18:04.319
You're on different tracks.

1043
01:18:04.439 --> 01:18:05.579
You're on different tracks.

1044
01:18:05.640 --> 01:18:08.819
You can say it simultaneously and I'll be able to fix it.

1045
01:18:08.939 --> 01:18:12.960
But you can still get angry if you feel like it. do that.

1046
01:18:13.680 --> 01:18:15.060
Okay.

1047
01:18:16.199 --> 01:18:20.316
Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight through entirety.