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NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 14:06:06

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast, which inflates dramatically at

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moments of high emotion.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd.

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I'm Peter.

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And I'm Simon.

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Well, we started the year by kicking a guy out of an airborne

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restaurant and continued by insulting some organic soldiers and

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foiling a couple of robotic ones, pushing a beloved childhood hero

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in a river, ruining our friend's 1st date, belittling her

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boyfriend, telling a historically important child.

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She's not special, writing insulting signs, disappearing just as

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the moon hatches, giving school children the most important

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homework in history, for giving a friend, and making a short trip

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to the underworld.

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It's been an eventful 12 episodes, so it's time to take stock in

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our series H retrospective.

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Here we go.

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Simon, here's one for you.

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Snog, marry a void.

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The teller, the boneless trees.

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Oh, dear.

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Well, I think I have to marry the tailor because actually once you

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get to know him, he does seem very, very good company.

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I guess...

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I think you can do snoggy.

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Nice of you to say so, Peter.

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The boneless.

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Oh, dear.

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Well, I'm avoiding the boneless, and so I'm snogging trees.

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We've all done it. sentence.

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Okay, here's another one.

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Peter.

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Oh, yes.

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Snog, marry your void.

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Kill the moon, the caretaker in the forest of the night.

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Okay, I'm going to avoid in the forest of the night because why

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the hell wouldn't you?

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I will snog kill the moon just because I think it can be quite

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racy in places, even if it doesn't work out.

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So I would have to marry the caretaker, which I don't know if you

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go through life with the caretaker, do you?

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No, terrible.

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Okay, but that's what you left for.

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Quickie divorce, end up with, you know, mummy.

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I actually quite like, I've had a Todd experience.

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Within the forest of the night.

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I actually did not find it as bad as I thought it was going to

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be.

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But do you mean it was still bad, just not quite as bad?

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It's not my least favourite of the year.

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That would have to go to Kill the Moon.

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But only because of the performance of the lead actress, not

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Jenna.

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Hermione Norris. and I agree with you, Simon.

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When I listen to that.

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She's just so dour all the way through.

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And I guess that's her job, but I just thought it was very one

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note.

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Yeah.

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See, I don't like Kill the Moon at all, and I don't think it's the

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worst episode of the season in the Forest of the Night definitely

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is.

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Oh, absolutely.

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I think the caretaker is because I think it's so crucial to the

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arc and it fumbles so badly by just making everyone horribly

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unlikeable and it takes a long while to recover.

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And I think for some people, they never kind of recover from

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that.

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Whereas I think they both kill the moon and in the forest of the

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night remind people who think that Doctor Who is about base

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corridors that that's not what it's about or what its tone is at

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all.

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So it does push things too far for some people, I think

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understandably, but it tries to do something different.

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Just like having Santa turn up in last Christmas, I think.

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It's strange because I don't think that there are many just

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regular episodes this season.

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I think there's a bunch of really great episodes and a bunch of

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episodes that do not hit the mark.

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And the episodes that don't hit the mark all don't hit the mark

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for different reasons.

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So in the forest of the night is just an utter failure of

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production, as well as being stupid in places.

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It's something which does make my fanboy heart cringe.

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Caretaker gets the relationships all kinds of wrong and is also, I

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think, as was talked about. on the episode, which I wasn't on, has

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some very problematic things going on, which people making the

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show probably didn't even realise, but that's not what the end

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result is.

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And I know I'm not going to be popular with Todd for saying this

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but I think that robots of Sherwood is really dull and obvious.

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But, you know, then you've got half a dozen episodes, which are

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really immaculately great.

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And I think I would prefer a season like this to one like last

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season, series 7, where everything was just a bit kind of mare.

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Yeah.

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I always give episodes marks for trying, for having a good idea

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even if it doesn't necessarily work.

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I think in the Forest of the Night, for me, is a failure because

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it goes back to when I was watching Paradise Towers, episode 4 on

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its 1st transmission here and my brother walked into the lounge

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room at a few moments and basically just said at one point, Oh my

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god, this is so, and then he swore, I think this is a G rated

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podcast, but so I felt mortally embarrassed for watching it.

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And I think if someone saw me watching in the forest of the night

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at many times, I would be cringing and I think just echoing what

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you said, Peter.

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It makes my fanboy heart cringe because I think there's so much

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about it, which is kind of like a children's show.

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That feeling, that experience of having someone wander in and see

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you watching Doctor Who being embarrassing is so incredibly kind

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of engrained into all of our fan DNA.

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And all of our listeners, probably.

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It's really important, motivating, critical factor for all of us.

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I think it's pretty funny.

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I totally agree with you.

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And Simon, I've got flashbacks because I know my father tried to

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bond with me watching Doctor Who, and of course it was.

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It was either Paradise Towers or Time in the Rani, and I literally

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turned to him and said to him, please just, oh, this is so

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embarrassing.

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Leave the room.

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I basically said that, like, of all things, it was that.

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But we digress.

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I'm going to go back to in the forest of the night.

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I actually really do like spending time with Clara, Danny and the

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doctor.

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And I think that's the part that I enjoyed the most of that

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episode.

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The whole, who's the sister that suddenly just comes out of the

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porch at the end.

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That's so poorly realised beyond Annabelle?

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awful.

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Something like that.

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Annabelle, it's just awful.

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She looks like she's going to murder everyone.

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She like appears looking like really angry and it's kind of like

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what's going on here?

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It's the final shot of the episode.

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It's very bad.

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I think I think I mentioned in the finale somewhere that I really

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do consider this whole concept of a Sarah Jane Adventure sort of

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thing and a very poorly realised Sarah Jane Adventures, but I did

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like it a lot more than I thought I was going to, perhaps because

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I went in with such low expectations.

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But I really would have liked to have spent more time with

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Courtney, who just seems to get dropped after her couple of

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episodes in the middle of the season.

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It would have been good to see her again, unlike those 2 Gormless

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children from last year, who also just got dropped for no reason

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at all.

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He does a couple of episodes and then says goodbye, that's it.

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Yeah, so in the forest of the night for me, was not the least

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enjoyable to watch.

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I actually find Kill the Moon that because when they start

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agonising over the decision and they, I just find that from that

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point on.

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And I'm not particularly sold on the chicken, the egg thing, I

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don't totally hate it now, but I just find that that story for me

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collapses.

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And so even into the Dalek, which is all over the shop. and I've

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mentioned that before I think I enjoy a bit more.

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Back to what you were saying, Peter, about episodes this year.

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I love the fact that this season is imperfectly perfect for me.

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I just think there are some wonderful episodes.

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All the other episodes which I have problems with.

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There's actually aspects in them that I actually really do like as

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opposed to totally dislike the thing.

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Um, I guess that's one of the things that I probably mentioned, is

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that there are different themes running through all these episodes

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and you can choose which path you want to go down.

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You could just decide on an obvious tack that I'm just going to

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wait for Missy to turn up and watch that part of it.

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It's a shame that she's actually not in an episode earlier or Seb

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where they're actually controlling the action, but the doctor

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never actually gets to see them.

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I think that would have been fun to have.

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Obviously, we can't have her being like with the reveal at the end

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of the year, but it would have been nice to have had some sort of

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more than just, you know, walking in the background and being in

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the promised land.

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It's interesting what you said about Kil the Moon, Todd, because I

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think that you don't like Kil the Moon for the same reason as I

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don't like in the Forest of the Night.

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I think Kilamoon has actually quite a few things to recommend it.

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I don't think it's very good, but there is some good stuff in

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there.

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But it just, at some point, pitches past that feeling where

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everything, like, we talk about the science and all of that, but

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at some point it all just becomes cumulative and you kind of give

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up on it and go, oh, actually, it's just a bit stupid, and I had

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the same feeling within the forest of the night.

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See, I think I understand why Todd doesn't like Kill the Moon

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because we said in our episode that it presents a choice, we get

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to make a choice between Doctor Who and kind of generic space

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stuff, but we're given so much generic space stuff at the

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beginning, and that choice only gets made very, very close to the

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end of the episode.

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And so it does risk being very dreary, I think, up until that

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point.

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And it's leavened a bit because there's some sort of fun spider

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action or whatever.

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But I think I can see why that tone is a problem.

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I think for me, both of them have a similar issue and I brought

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this sort of comment up before about other episodes that I don't

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like.

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And I know Nathan you sort of scoff at this suggestion, but for me

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it's about the suspension of disbelief.

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Now, recognising that, you know, we have a police telephone box

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that can travel through space and time that's bigger on the inside

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and the outside.

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Yes, I know it's all ridiculous, but there are things that within

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an episode have to make sense with itself. internal logic

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Sometimes internal. the internal logic of something.

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So a world is set up.

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A world meeting, kind of broadly speaking, is set up in an episode

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or a story.

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And there are sort of rules that are set in place.

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And usually those rules are established in the 1st few minutes.

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And I think the problem with both those episodes is, well, the

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problem with Kilda Moon is that it sets up some, I feel like it

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sets up some rules in the 1st 5 minutes, which I then feel get

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completely thrown out. the window and then new ones brought in and

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then they get thrown out and then a whole other ones get brought

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in and then we decide, oh, okay, it's a bit of everything.

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In the forest of the night fails for me, even though I think there

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are some absolutely stunning and great scenes with the regulars.

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I just think the overall concept, I think, needed a little bit

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more thinking through because I just don't buy it.

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I just think it's quite ridiculous.

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And I also think it's sort of sending the wrong message that it

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doesn't matter how we treat the planet because at the end of the

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day all the trees will kind of, you know, protect us. a bunch of

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wrong messages, actually, including about...

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Yeah, eggs and medication and all that sort of stuff.

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I think the medication thing is a genuine problem and it does seem

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to be like an old guy thinking that kids are too medicated these

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days and putting that into the show.

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I can see the risk that that episode takes in saying that the

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planet will just fix itself.

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But I also think that what's happening there is it's a more kind

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of, it's telling us the role that the forest plays, in that it

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protects us from what's going on in space.

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It makes our atmosphere, our world habitable.

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And so we see it doing that in this sort of very obvious way.

248
00:12:36.600 --> 00:12:40.620
But the takeaway message isn't that if we ruin the planet enough, a

249
00:12:40.620 --> 00:12:44.519
massive worldwide forest will spring up and save us all.

250
00:12:44.580 --> 00:12:47.519
It is that the trees are important. harm the trees.

251
00:12:47.580 --> 00:12:49.259
And I think I think that's okay.

252
00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:54.000
I also think very strongly that whether you think a story is

253
00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:58.019
credible or not depends very strongly on the age you were when you

254
00:12:58.019 --> 00:12:58.740
1st saw it.

255
00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:02.940
And so everyone's favourite season 7 episode posits that there's

256
00:13:02.940 --> 00:13:06.179
goo in the earth's crust that when you touch it, you turn into a

257
00:13:06.179 --> 00:13:11.220
werewolf and like no one is saying that's a preposterous story

258
00:13:11.220 --> 00:13:12.059
scientifically.

259
00:13:12.120 --> 00:13:13.860
And how could anyone enjoy it?

260
00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:16.200
So I do think that's a thing.

261
00:13:16.259 --> 00:13:21.840
This series does take Doctor Who further in that direction than

262
00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:22.980
it's been taken before.

263
00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:26.639
And if it fails for some people, I don't mind because I really

264
00:13:26.639 --> 00:13:29.700
want Doctor Who to do something new.

265
00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:32.159
That's the one thing that Doctor Who should be doing.

266
00:13:32.220 --> 00:13:35.399
It's the reason that we hated the 80s because it was just doing

267
00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:36.659
the same old stuff for.

268
00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:38.580
In fact, not doing the same old stuff.

269
00:13:38.639 --> 00:13:40.620
Yeah, I didn't hate the 80s actually.

270
00:13:40.620 --> 00:13:46.440
One of the problems with the 80s is that it's too reverential to

271
00:13:46.440 --> 00:13:50.519
previous source material instead of pushing us in bold new

272
00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:50.879
directions.

273
00:13:50.940 --> 00:13:54.360
But you see, the thing with patches, patches of it, yes.

274
00:13:54.419 --> 00:13:57.360
The thing with Inferno is that it is preposterous, the idea, but

275
00:13:57.360 --> 00:13:57.659
that's fine.

276
00:13:57.720 --> 00:14:01.019
Doctor is full of preposterous ideas, but the rules within it are

277
00:14:01.019 --> 00:14:03.000
set up and maintained throughout the episode.

278
00:14:03.059 --> 00:14:06.179
And so you can believe in the, quote unquote, preposterous world

279
00:14:06.179 --> 00:14:06.960
that it sets up.

280
00:14:07.019 --> 00:14:10.259
Yeah, but what Nathan's sort of saying is because we saw Inferno

281
00:14:10.259 --> 00:14:12.779
when we were, what would have been, I'd have been 12 or something

282
00:14:12.779 --> 00:14:13.740
at the time, 13.

283
00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:16.860
It's better than if we'd have seen it as a 50-year-old for the 1st

284
00:14:16.860 --> 00:14:17.039
time.

285
00:14:17.100 --> 00:14:19.500
I think there is something in that.

286
00:14:20.220 --> 00:14:23.279
No, but I think there is something in that, but I think it

287
00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:25.320
explained some things, but I don't think it explains everything.

288
00:14:25.379 --> 00:14:29.759
I think it does explain some reactions that we have as fully grown

289
00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:32.639
adults, allegedly, to some of the new series stuff.

290
00:14:32.700 --> 00:14:35.399
But at the same time, you know, we keep saying that, you know

291
00:14:35.399 --> 00:14:38.100
young people, you know, kids are so much smarter than they were in

292
00:14:38.100 --> 00:14:41.460
previous generations, but I feel like something like in the Forest

293
00:14:41.460 --> 00:14:45.419
of the Night is not treating that audience with the respect it

294
00:14:45.419 --> 00:14:45.840
deserves.

295
00:14:55.799 --> 00:14:57.659
Taking a different take now.

296
00:14:57.720 --> 00:15:02.460
I was mentioning the Missy Arc very briefly.

297
00:15:02.519 --> 00:15:04.919
I mean, obviously Michelle Gomez is fantastic.

298
00:15:04.980 --> 00:15:09.299
I just think she just sells every single line that she's given.

299
00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:13.559
But when it comes to the whole year, like the master's really not

300
00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:14.580
in it very much at all.

301
00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:18.000
Like, I mean, if you look at Delgado's 1st year as the master, like

302
00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:22.139
plot wise is in every story and is instigator of so many things.

303
00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:26.220
And here the grand plan is just to produce a cyber army, to give

304
00:15:26.220 --> 00:15:26.940
to the doctor.

305
00:15:26.940 --> 00:15:28.679
Which makes no sense.

306
00:15:28.740 --> 00:15:30.539
That's right. that you've mentioned.

307
00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:32.879
Well, just like Delgado's plans, I guess.

308
00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:37.019
But she has such a presence, but she's not really involved very

309
00:15:37.019 --> 00:15:37.379
much at all.

310
00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:41.220
So I was thinking back on previous arcs.

311
00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:43.379
Both Moffatt and RTD.

312
00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:49.919
And I think that this is the only one that does the roughly half

313
00:15:49.919 --> 00:15:53.279
the episodes have a scene which reminds us of the arc and is

314
00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:54.720
solely there for that reason.

315
00:15:54.779 --> 00:15:59.519
I'm thinking of a couple of scenes maybe in series three, you know

316
00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:05.519
in Lazarus experiment and the one 42, you know, which has Mr

317
00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:10.559
Saxons kind of minions interacting with Francine, perhaps.

318
00:16:10.679 --> 00:16:12.179
Yeah, that woman from Holy Oaks.

319
00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:13.200
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

320
00:16:13.259 --> 00:16:14.639
Mysterious woman.

321
00:16:14.700 --> 00:16:15.960
I think she might be called.

322
00:16:16.019 --> 00:16:19.740
I think that those scenes are themselves absolutely hilarious.

323
00:16:19.799 --> 00:16:21.539
Like, they're really properly funny.

324
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:27.600
I love when she offers tea to Gretchen in Into the Dalek, which I

325
00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:29.879
think is just sort of, is it Gretchen?

326
00:16:29.940 --> 00:16:30.419
Yeah, it is.

327
00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:32.340
All of that stuff is great.

328
00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:36.000
Every moment that she's on the screen is just truly splendid.

329
00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:40.080
And I think we get more of her than we might have expected.

330
00:16:40.139 --> 00:16:44.460
And I think the master even now deserves a little bit of buildup

331
00:16:44.460 --> 00:16:44.940
as well.

332
00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:50.039
Like, I just, it was one of my objections to SpyFall part one is

333
00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:52.919
oh, it's suddenly just the master and we've literally had no

334
00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:54.059
buildup to that at all.

335
00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:58.259
And maybe the 3rd time you don't need quite an extensive buildup

336
00:16:58.259 --> 00:16:58.799
I'm not sure.

337
00:16:58.860 --> 00:17:02.220
But the build-up to missing, I think, is so great, and the reveal

338
00:17:02.220 --> 00:17:03.539
is just so magnificent.

339
00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:06.779
And Moffatt clearly loves her so much that he can't leave her

340
00:17:06.779 --> 00:17:10.259
alone and just puts her in the 1st story of the next season

341
00:17:10.259 --> 00:17:11.819
because she's so great.

342
00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:15.839
Yeah, and also it's helpful to view, I think, Missy as not being

343
00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:16.859
in the whole season.

344
00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:19.680
Missy is really only in dark water and death in heaven.

345
00:17:19.740 --> 00:17:22.559
It's just that we keep getting extended previews of it, which is

346
00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:22.799
amazing.

347
00:17:22.859 --> 00:17:27.059
Yeah, it's the good thing about doing it that way is that those

348
00:17:27.059 --> 00:17:31.500
little epilogue scenes in those episodes don't interfere with the

349
00:17:31.500 --> 00:17:32.460
telling of those episodes.

350
00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:33.119
No.

351
00:17:33.180 --> 00:17:35.759
They are sometimes in the middle, aren't they?

352
00:17:35.819 --> 00:17:37.440
They're not always immediately at the end.

353
00:17:37.500 --> 00:17:38.640
Yes, that is true.

354
00:17:38.700 --> 00:17:41.819
No, they're not always at the very end, but they're not. they're

355
00:17:41.819 --> 00:17:44.039
not important to to the episode at all.

356
00:17:44.099 --> 00:17:47.220
And they are vastly more interesting than the doctor just checking

357
00:17:47.220 --> 00:17:50.099
that Amy is, yep, pregnant again at the start of every episode.

358
00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:51.240
Yes.

359
00:17:51.299 --> 00:17:51.660
Yes, yes.

360
00:17:51.720 --> 00:17:52.680
That's very true.

361
00:17:52.740 --> 00:17:53.759
Very true.

362
00:17:53.819 --> 00:17:57.599
It certainly keeps people hooked into that if that's what you're

363
00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:01.559
interested in as opposed to perhaps, am I a good man?

364
00:18:01.619 --> 00:18:02.519
Yeah.

365
00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:05.880
Which is one of the other arcs for the season.

366
00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:10.859
And I think it's a good exploration, but was it the right decision

367
00:18:10.859 --> 00:18:11.279
to make?

368
00:18:11.339 --> 00:18:12.900
You've talked a bit about this, Nathan.

369
00:18:13.019 --> 00:18:17.700
Well, I think Flatline is the episode that gets at the most

370
00:18:17.700 --> 00:18:18.420
right.

371
00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:21.900
And I think I said in that episode it wasn't a critique of the

372
00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:25.440
12th doctor as much as it was a critique of the doctor, that thing

373
00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:30.119
about how the doctor lies because people who have hope run faster

374
00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:31.319
than those that don't.

375
00:18:31.380 --> 00:18:35.279
And so the doctor's role is dishonest.

376
00:18:35.339 --> 00:18:38.640
And although they're a good outcomes to that, what does it mean

377
00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:41.279
about him as a person?

378
00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:49.319
And like, I think, ultimately, that it fails, because it seems

379
00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:54.599
strange that the 12 doctor is having this moral crisis about the

380
00:18:54.599 --> 00:18:57.779
12 doctor's character even before he really does anything.

381
00:18:57.839 --> 00:18:59.700
Oh, well, he beats up a trap, doesn't he?

382
00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:00.960
pushes that guy out the window.

383
00:19:01.019 --> 00:19:02.640
But do you know what I mean?

384
00:19:02.700 --> 00:19:04.380
He's having this sort of moral crisis.

385
00:19:04.980 --> 00:19:06.660
I don't know.

386
00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:09.180
I don't think it's to do with beating up the train, but I don't

387
00:19:09.180 --> 00:19:11.579
think it's a 12th doctor wondering whether the 12th doctor is a

388
00:19:11.579 --> 00:19:12.180
good man.

389
00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:15.180
It is the 12th doctor wondering whether the doctor is a good man.

390
00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:19.200
And I think I touched on this in deep breath in that he's just

391
00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:23.099
supposedly regenerated. he's now living on borrowed time.

392
00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:26.220
Like he was supposed to reach the end of his life with his last

393
00:19:26.220 --> 00:19:29.579
incarnation in this story that was created.

394
00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:33.059
And so I think the fact that he's effectively cheated death and

395
00:19:33.059 --> 00:19:35.279
been given a whole new cycle or infinite regenerations, whatever

396
00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:38.940
the hell it is, is making him kind of having a self-doubt moment

397
00:19:38.940 --> 00:19:40.799
as to who am I and why am I here?

398
00:19:40.859 --> 00:19:43.740
I think that's the best, the better explanation for why he's

399
00:19:43.740 --> 00:19:47.039
having that self-doubt. new life crisis Exactly.

400
00:19:47.099 --> 00:19:49.200
Not because he's regenerated into Peter Capaldi.

401
00:19:49.259 --> 00:19:50.460
Yeah.

402
00:19:50.519 --> 00:19:53.759
And also they've just come off the 50th and the 50th, the day of

403
00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:56.940
the doctor is all about. could the doctor be the person who did

404
00:19:56.940 --> 00:19:57.900
this terrible thing.

405
00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:00.539
So a little bit of kind of introspection following that is to be

406
00:20:00.539 --> 00:20:01.259
expected, really.

407
00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:04.200
And it is a Moffat obsession, isn't it?

408
00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:06.180
Yeah, I mean, I do find it a little bit tedious.

409
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:06.660
Yes, it is.

410
00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:07.619
It is a bit.

411
00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:11.400
I mean, but I do find a little bit... unnecessary.

412
00:20:11.460 --> 00:20:13.920
I mean, I know it's the thing that they like to do.

413
00:20:13.980 --> 00:20:17.339
I don't think it's done with much subtlety, actually.

414
00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:18.059
Thank you, Peter.

415
00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:18.960
I agree with you.

416
00:20:19.019 --> 00:20:23.339
It's not subtle in the way it's shoehorned into certain scenes and

417
00:20:23.339 --> 00:20:23.880
episodes.

418
00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:25.680
And I think I've mentioned it.

419
00:20:25.740 --> 00:20:28.559
It's like having a painting where suddenly it's quite bright and

420
00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:31.500
everything and then you have this dark mark there.

421
00:20:31.559 --> 00:20:32.940
There just has to be put in.

422
00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:35.400
And so sometimes I kind of think, oh, do we really have to go

423
00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:35.640
there?

424
00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:38.099
That could have been written better with this.

425
00:20:38.220 --> 00:20:41.220
And I do think in Flatline when he comes out of the TARDIS and is

426
00:20:41.220 --> 00:20:44.940
doing his big, huge speech to the boneless. is just a wonderful

427
00:20:44.940 --> 00:20:45.359
moment.

428
00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:49.740
And it's where initially that I finally said, yes, he's here, he's

429
00:20:49.740 --> 00:20:50.160
arrived.

430
00:20:50.220 --> 00:20:52.920
I really love Peter Capaldi as the doctor.

431
00:20:52.980 --> 00:20:56.579
I know in that episode, I think Stephen was saying that this, was

432
00:20:56.579 --> 00:20:58.559
it Stephen that was saying that it needed to be earlier in the

433
00:20:58.559 --> 00:20:58.920
season?

434
00:20:58.980 --> 00:21:00.000
Perhaps it did.

435
00:21:00.059 --> 00:21:03.180
Perhaps it's perfect where it actually is because going back on

436
00:21:03.180 --> 00:21:07.019
rewatch, it's actually, I just find it intriguing watching that

437
00:21:07.019 --> 00:21:09.480
particular arc, the journey and the decisions that they've made

438
00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:11.759
whether you agree with it or not, and how we get to that

439
00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:12.480
particular point.

440
00:21:12.539 --> 00:21:16.019
I mean, I certainly think from that point forward, it's sort of

441
00:21:16.019 --> 00:21:18.960
like, well, you've really answered, am I a good man?

442
00:21:19.019 --> 00:21:22.500
Like, do we need to go back and keep revisiting that in the finale

443
00:21:22.500 --> 00:21:23.160
or whatever?

444
00:21:23.220 --> 00:21:27.000
Because by the time we get to last Christmas, Capaldi's actually

445
00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:28.619
really likeable in that.

446
00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:31.619
I mean, he's still grumpy and that's he's got all these character

447
00:21:31.619 --> 00:21:34.799
traits, but he's actually quite loveable in last Christmas.

448
00:21:34.859 --> 00:21:40.440
I don't see how you cannot like him and Clara with Dr. and Clara

449
00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:41.279
in last Christmas.

450
00:21:41.339 --> 00:21:45.720
I think one of the things of this season, been imperfectly perfect

451
00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:49.559
is that I think the acting from both of them is just immaculate

452
00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:51.119
but do you really like them a lot of the time?

453
00:21:51.180 --> 00:21:55.200
Yeah, we've talked an awful lot about the fact that, you know, the

454
00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:58.259
doctor and companion relationship works best when it's a warm

455
00:21:58.259 --> 00:22:01.200
relationship because they are our friends and introducing a

456
00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:04.859
dysfunctional element to that is interesting, and I want to see

457
00:22:04.859 --> 00:22:05.099
that.

458
00:22:05.160 --> 00:22:07.980
It's just, it's not really very well handled here.

459
00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:11.099
And so you get these sledgehammer moments like Into the Dalek.

460
00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:12.480
She's my carer.

461
00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:14.039
She cares so that I don't have to.

462
00:22:14.099 --> 00:22:15.599
We're just thinking, well, where are you going with that?

463
00:22:15.660 --> 00:22:16.799
Yes, come on.

464
00:22:16.859 --> 00:22:19.980
Well, look, yeah, I mean, I don't mind those sorts of things.

465
00:22:20.039 --> 00:22:23.160
Even when he comes out with something which is quite cruel.

466
00:22:23.220 --> 00:22:24.059
It's usually funny.

467
00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:25.980
I don't care. it's great.

468
00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:30.420
What I'd say is that I always prefer the show Don't Tell root.

469
00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:33.660
I mean, I don't think that Doctor Who is the kind of program that

470
00:22:33.660 --> 00:22:38.099
the viewership wants to go down these kind of introspective

471
00:22:38.099 --> 00:22:38.519
routes.

472
00:22:38.579 --> 00:22:40.140
I don't think that's what it's there for.

473
00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:41.819
It's certainly not what it's there for for me.

474
00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:45.059
I mean, there's there's actual proper drama programs if I want

475
00:22:45.059 --> 00:22:47.220
that, you know, that sort of thing.

476
00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:50.940
Yes, we need the program to be a little bit more, you know

477
00:22:50.940 --> 00:22:53.460
realistic with characters in the modern era compared to the way it

478
00:22:53.460 --> 00:22:54.119
was back in the day.

479
00:22:54.180 --> 00:22:57.720
But rather than questioning, you know, am I a good man effectively

480
00:22:57.720 --> 00:23:00.960
throughout it, it's just better for that to be kind of an

481
00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:04.740
underlying thing that they, that's how they write it and that's

482
00:23:04.740 --> 00:23:07.920
how they they characterise it rather than it all being so

483
00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:08.400
blatant.

484
00:23:08.460 --> 00:23:10.259
Yes, he's the doctor.

485
00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:12.480
He's a good man. there we go There we go.

486
00:23:12.539 --> 00:23:13.500
A flawed, yes.

487
00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:15.900
Show the floors, by all means show the flaws, but at the end of

488
00:23:15.900 --> 00:23:16.740
the day, he's a good man.

489
00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:18.420
Of course he is. you know don't be ridiculous.

490
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:21.720
I think it's a reaction, though, against Matt Smith's doctor, who

491
00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:26.400
everyone thinks is terribly loveable, but who is provably actually

492
00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:30.299
quite awful at times, like bringing that forward a bit, that seems

493
00:23:30.299 --> 00:23:31.619
like an obvious thing to do.

494
00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:35.640
If Moffatt's writing a doctor who is kind of terrible and makes

495
00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:39.779
terrible decisions and manipulates his companions and various

496
00:23:39.779 --> 00:23:43.559
other things, then let's actually bring that to the fore so

497
00:23:43.559 --> 00:23:46.440
everyone notices it because I'm not sure that everyone does notice

498
00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:46.740
it.

499
00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:51.420
And I do think that the following doctor after Capaldi is a

500
00:23:51.420 --> 00:23:56.220
reaction against this and ends up being a much less interesting

501
00:23:56.220 --> 00:23:57.839
character as a result, I think.

502
00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:02.940
I think I just prefer the Matt Smith interpretation where they

503
00:24:02.940 --> 00:24:05.759
make him do horrible things, but they don't do it up front.

504
00:24:05.819 --> 00:24:08.819
And who cares whether a lot of the audience don't pick that up?

505
00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:13.019
You know, it's great for us, the fans to pick that up. that's, I

506
00:24:13.019 --> 00:24:13.619
suppose, what I'm saying.

507
00:24:13.740 --> 00:24:15.539
I'd rather just continue down that tack.

508
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:18.119
But I agree what you're saying about Jody being too much of a

509
00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:19.259
reaction against Capaldi.

510
00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:22.200
Capaldi's nastiness. she's too sweetness and light.

511
00:24:22.259 --> 00:24:25.859
You know, the place that I always go is horrifying wrong.

512
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:29.759
Tom in Horror of Fang Rock, who's saving them all, but being sort

513
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:33.000
of very horrible to just about everyone all the way through, which

514
00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:33.960
is magnificent.

515
00:24:34.019 --> 00:24:38.759
I think also, um, this is all highlighted too with the doctor's

516
00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:40.799
relationship with Danny as well.

517
00:24:40.859 --> 00:24:44.819
I mean, Danny's also a very flawed character, extremely well

518
00:24:44.819 --> 00:24:48.119
played by Samuel, but he's not necessarily the nicest person, but

519
00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:52.319
you know, for a lot of it, they're in such conflict, which is

520
00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:53.819
unnecessary.

521
00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:56.339
And even at the end of the year with what happens with the

522
00:24:56.339 --> 00:25:00.539
character of Danny, like killing him off, which is quite horrible

523
00:25:00.539 --> 00:25:06.299
in itself, but, um, it leaves sort of unpleasant, unresolved sort

524
00:25:06.299 --> 00:25:07.500
of dynamic there.

525
00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:11.279
I mean, I do think the doctor does say, you know, we'll make a

526
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:13.859
math teach you out of you yet, PE.

527
00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:17.640
And there is a resolution and he does want to try, he's, he's

528
00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:20.220
making amends for his horrible behaviour by, you know, giving him

529
00:25:20.220 --> 00:25:24.779
the way to get back from wherever he is and wanting to see Clara

530
00:25:24.779 --> 00:25:25.920
with, with Danny.

531
00:25:25.980 --> 00:25:30.420
But for a lot of it, it's just sledgehammer stuff like, as you

532
00:25:30.420 --> 00:25:35.160
said, which I just think is perhaps for the casual viewer is a bit

533
00:25:35.160 --> 00:25:35.759
of eternal.

534
00:25:35.819 --> 00:25:39.000
It's interesting that you say that Danny is not a particularly

535
00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:40.619
nice character sometimes.

536
00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:44.039
I think Danny's got a lot of agency and that's the reason why I

537
00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:44.400
like him.

538
00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:47.099
Usually when you get a new regular character who comes in or a

539
00:25:47.099 --> 00:25:51.900
semi-regular character, they kind of subordinate themselves to the

540
00:25:51.900 --> 00:25:55.319
doctor and the companion, and so they're there to service those

541
00:25:55.319 --> 00:25:55.859
characters.

542
00:25:55.920 --> 00:26:00.000
Whereas Danny actually has his own agency and is to Clara like, why

543
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:00.960
are you going off with this guy?

544
00:26:01.019 --> 00:26:03.000
You should be in a relationship with me.

545
00:26:03.059 --> 00:26:04.079
That's what I signed up for.

546
00:26:04.140 --> 00:26:06.779
And so I like the fact that he's just kind of like a normal person

547
00:26:06.779 --> 00:26:09.900
who has come into this arrangement and actually just wants normal

548
00:26:09.900 --> 00:26:10.380
things.

549
00:26:10.380 --> 00:26:13.259
He doesn't care that she's going off with her doctorate, time and

550
00:26:13.259 --> 00:26:13.500
space.

551
00:26:13.559 --> 00:26:14.819
He wants to be able to go on a date with her.

552
00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:18.720
Yeah, I think that the caretaker has to take a lot of the blame

553
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:22.500
for how that fails to work properly.

554
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:25.140
And it's not just the obvious things in the caretaker, where

555
00:26:25.140 --> 00:26:26.579
everyone's sort of super unlikeable.

556
00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:28.920
It's where Danny kind of goes, why didn't you tell me about your

557
00:26:28.920 --> 00:26:33.359
secret alien friend who you travel off with in time and space as

558
00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:34.740
if like there are...

559
00:26:34.859 --> 00:26:35.940
I'd have thought I was a lunatic.

560
00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:36.900
Yeah, that's right.

561
00:26:36.900 --> 00:26:38.039
There are moral rules about that.

562
00:26:38.099 --> 00:26:39.480
No one told me that.

563
00:26:39.539 --> 00:26:40.200
Yes exactly.

564
00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:43.380
And she could turn around and say, why didn't you tell me you

565
00:26:43.380 --> 00:26:44.460
could do a triple somersault?

566
00:26:44.519 --> 00:26:45.359
Yeah, yeah.

567
00:26:45.420 --> 00:26:47.279
A little different though.

568
00:26:47.460 --> 00:26:50.519
No, I agree with you both of those points.

569
00:26:50.579 --> 00:26:52.799
I mean, I do like Danny a lot.

570
00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:54.900
And I do like the fact that he has his own agency.

571
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:56.220
I think that is great.

572
00:26:56.279 --> 00:27:00.299
It's not like, I don't want to say Rory per se, but, you know, so

573
00:27:00.299 --> 00:27:03.960
often the boyfriends end up liking the doctor and the doctor ends

574
00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:06.539
up sort of liking them and they all get on board with going.

575
00:27:06.599 --> 00:27:07.380
He's Mr. Pond.

576
00:27:07.500 --> 00:27:08.220
Yeah.

577
00:27:08.279 --> 00:27:09.539
And they end up being doormats, basically.

578
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:10.200
Yes, yes.

579
00:27:10.259 --> 00:27:12.240
Whereas, whereas here that doesn't happen, and that is

580
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:12.779
uncomfortable.

581
00:27:12.839 --> 00:27:14.339
But that's what I think anyway.

582
00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:17.880
Yeah, I do think we were missing an episode where, actually, it

583
00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:20.039
wouldn't have worked for the theme, but I did want to see it where

584
00:27:20.039 --> 00:27:23.039
Danny actually accompanies the Dr. and Clara on a proper outer

585
00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:23.640
space episode.

586
00:27:23.700 --> 00:27:27.000
Yeah, I mean, I think in the forest of the night is trying to do

587
00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:27.960
that for sure.

588
00:27:28.019 --> 00:27:31.259
Failing miserably Well, no, I think that's the best part of it.

589
00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:34.619
And I think in last Christmas you do get Danny and the doctor

590
00:27:34.619 --> 00:27:38.160
teaming up to save Clara's life in one scene.

591
00:27:38.220 --> 00:27:44.099
So I think that's part of the problem is that we're doing a

592
00:27:44.099 --> 00:27:48.960
retrospective, but there's really only a very few weeks between

593
00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:51.960
death in heaven and last Christmas.

594
00:27:52.019 --> 00:27:57.539
And the end of Death in Heaven is so downbeat and so problematic

595
00:27:57.539 --> 00:28:01.799
that Santa has to break into the closing credits to make sure that

596
00:28:01.799 --> 00:28:02.819
everything's okay.

597
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:07.859
And then we find the Titanic a few years earlier.

598
00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:08.819
That's right.

599
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:12.539
But he actually, because he's Santa, he has the power to stop the

600
00:28:12.539 --> 00:28:13.079
credits.

601
00:28:13.140 --> 00:28:15.779
Then he comes in and does this sort of thing.

602
00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:21.480
And then and then the credits resume with Nick Frost as Santa as

603
00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:22.740
well, like almost immediately.

604
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:25.980
But it's because it's a problem and it is because all of that

605
00:28:25.980 --> 00:28:29.160
stuff is going to be properly resolved in last Christmas.

606
00:28:29.220 --> 00:28:30.480
That's true.

607
00:28:30.539 --> 00:28:34.859
I personally do think there are quite a few things resolved in

608
00:28:34.859 --> 00:28:36.660
that last episodes still.

609
00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:40.859
I do think that you do get a resolution on the whole PE plot.

610
00:28:40.859 --> 00:28:44.759
And I do, and I do think having cyber brig there with the doctor

611
00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:50.220
saluting the cyber brig Gadir, whether you like it or not, is his

612
00:28:50.220 --> 00:28:56.220
way of acknowledging the military in a way that he has had a

613
00:28:56.220 --> 00:28:59.400
problem with them all year, which, you know, again, is another one

614
00:28:59.400 --> 00:29:03.240
of the themes of the year, whether you like it or not, to borrow

615
00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:04.799
someone else's vernacular.

616
00:29:04.859 --> 00:29:06.960
But last Christmas.

617
00:29:07.019 --> 00:29:11.339
I can't help but love that in terms of the resolution of all 3

618
00:29:11.339 --> 00:29:11.940
characters.

619
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:17.220
You know, that beautiful moment with the doctor and older Clara

620
00:29:17.220 --> 00:29:21.299
and the Christmas cracker, which harks back to time of the doctor

621
00:29:21.299 --> 00:29:23.700
which moved me to tears.

622
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:29.819
And the joy in the 12th doctor in the sleigh.

623
00:29:29.880 --> 00:29:30.599
Yeah, yeah.

624
00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:35.579
And the hug that Clara gives her superhero friend or whatever the

625
00:29:35.579 --> 00:29:36.420
what does she say?

626
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:40.680
It's a hug where she hugs him from behind, so their faces aren't

627
00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:43.500
facing in opposite directions, which was the problem with the hug

628
00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:47.460
at the end of series 8 at the end of death in heaven.

629
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:50.160
So it really absolutely is definitely there.

630
00:29:50.220 --> 00:29:54.180
And it's our 1st 12 episode season where the 13th episode is the

631
00:29:54.180 --> 00:29:55.079
Christmas special.

632
00:29:55.140 --> 00:29:58.980
And it's almost like Moffat has plotted it just like one 13

633
00:29:58.980 --> 00:29:59.940
episode season.

634
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:02.579
Yeah, because you know, it's all going on October to December.

635
00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:03.000
Why not?

636
00:30:03.059 --> 00:30:03.359
Yeah.

637
00:30:03.420 --> 00:30:03.660
Yeah.

638
00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:07.440
I mean, I haven't actually rewatched last Christmas yet.

639
00:30:07.500 --> 00:30:12.119
So my memory is from a decade ago, but I still feel that even

640
00:30:12.119 --> 00:30:15.059
though it does help to resolve more things, I still feel it's kind

641
00:30:15.059 --> 00:30:17.819
of too much of an epilogue, it's like, well, let's just milk it a

642
00:30:17.819 --> 00:30:20.640
bit more because she decided to stay and we're going to keep

643
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:20.880
going.

644
00:30:20.940 --> 00:30:24.420
Whereas as Todd, you said, I think it does wrap up satisfactory at

645
00:30:24.420 --> 00:30:26.039
the end of Death in Heaven.

646
00:30:26.099 --> 00:30:29.640
I mean, yes, obviously you can do more later, but I don't know.

647
00:30:29.700 --> 00:30:32.220
I was just happy with ending it there.

648
00:30:32.279 --> 00:30:34.980
That's before Santa breaks into the Tartars.

649
00:30:35.039 --> 00:30:39.839
I just don't think you can have that be the companion departure

650
00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:40.859
the thing at death in heaven.

651
00:30:40.980 --> 00:30:44.339
You know, what's the nearest analogue?

652
00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:48.779
Is it Tegan leaving at the end of Resurrection of the Daleks where

653
00:30:48.779 --> 00:30:53.279
their relationship breaks down irreparably and they just part ways

654
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:56.640
and they do it in this sort of very English way where no one

655
00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:58.980
really says what they mean and all of that sort of thing?

656
00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:05.460
dodo in the war machines. that's right I think that's too

657
00:31:05.460 --> 00:31:06.539
downbeat.

658
00:31:06.599 --> 00:31:09.839
And while it would have been interesting because it would have

659
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:11.579
been a little bit like Martha's departure.

660
00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:13.019
It's like a real person reason.

661
00:31:13.079 --> 00:31:15.539
It's not space reasons for the partying.

662
00:31:15.599 --> 00:31:19.380
It's like, I just don't like this anymore and I want to go. that's

663
00:31:19.380 --> 00:31:19.859
what I was liking.

664
00:31:19.920 --> 00:31:21.299
Yeah, yeah.

665
00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:23.160
It's just a bit too busy.

666
00:31:23.220 --> 00:31:24.119
I like the real person reasons.

667
00:31:25.319 --> 00:31:29.759
The fact that Jenna is staying on, and that decision isn't made

668
00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:34.500
till late in the year. may or may not have influenced the writing

669
00:31:34.500 --> 00:31:34.980
of this.

670
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:37.319
You know, had she decided that she was going to go before

671
00:31:37.319 --> 00:31:40.259
Christmas, then maybe he would have written things differently or

672
00:31:40.259 --> 00:31:44.099
even before, you know, Christmas itself when they were at the read

673
00:31:44.099 --> 00:31:45.660
through to suddenly say that I'm staying.

674
00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:48.420
Would that have changed what happened to Danny, would that have

675
00:31:48.420 --> 00:31:49.500
changed anything in the season?

676
00:31:49.559 --> 00:31:51.480
I properly think not, looking back at it.

677
00:31:52.319 --> 00:31:56.339
I do feel that it's, you know, he's not going to go and kill a

678
00:31:56.339 --> 00:31:57.660
long-term companion at Christmas.

679
00:31:57.720 --> 00:32:00.660
I mean, Russell's quite happy to kill Kylie at Christmas, but

680
00:32:00.660 --> 00:32:02.880
she's only in there for that episode, you know?

681
00:32:03.119 --> 00:32:06.480
And so having her stay on.

682
00:32:06.539 --> 00:32:10.380
He's already building the storylines of her addiction, but into

683
00:32:10.380 --> 00:32:13.380
next year, and there's either one or 2 ways that's going to go

684
00:32:13.380 --> 00:32:16.380
whether you, you know, if you're addicted to, say, smoking and you

685
00:32:16.380 --> 00:32:19.140
have patches to wing yourself off it, or it's going to go in the

686
00:32:19.140 --> 00:32:20.460
completely other direction.

687
00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:25.200
I mean, I would have really liked to have seen Shona come on as an

688
00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:27.960
alternative companion where she's sort of like the apprentice

689
00:32:27.960 --> 00:32:31.619
companion and Clara sort of weans is swinging herself off the

690
00:32:31.619 --> 00:32:32.039
doctor.

691
00:32:32.099 --> 00:32:34.140
And certainly in last Christmas.

692
00:32:34.200 --> 00:32:35.039
Just watching it.

693
00:32:35.099 --> 00:32:38.880
It's like she calls the doctor a magician, Shona does, and he

694
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:41.700
calls her an apprentice at some point, perhaps harking to the 1st

695
00:32:41.700 --> 00:32:45.240
episode of next year, but as great as they are as a team, having

696
00:32:45.240 --> 00:32:50.220
another season of these 2 characters, the same old same old is

697
00:32:50.220 --> 00:32:51.599
perhaps a mistake.

698
00:32:51.660 --> 00:32:55.319
Yeah, after this season, I just don't know actually what more

699
00:32:55.319 --> 00:32:57.839
there is to say about the doctor and Clara.

700
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:13.859
I mentioned in one of the episodes earlier that the character of

701
00:33:13.859 --> 00:33:17.400
Clara, I've done a bit of a change of heart.

702
00:33:17.460 --> 00:33:21.539
Like, I really think from time of the doctor through the end of

703
00:33:21.539 --> 00:33:24.119
the season, she's actually really, she's much more of a character

704
00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:27.299
than the Impossible Girl, and I actually have really loved her

705
00:33:27.299 --> 00:33:30.900
performances and the journey this season so much more.

706
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:32.940
But yes, Peter, I agree with you.

707
00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:34.799
It's sort of like, is it time to let it go?

708
00:33:34.859 --> 00:33:36.779
sooner rather than later.

709
00:33:36.839 --> 00:33:40.079
Does that have an impact on viewers coming back next season?

710
00:33:40.140 --> 00:33:42.720
I don't think it has an impact on viewers coming back.

711
00:33:42.779 --> 00:33:44.339
I just think the characters run its course.

712
00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:47.099
Whether it's death in heaven or last Christmas, I think that

713
00:33:47.099 --> 00:33:49.859
should have been one of those 2 should have been the Swan song 100

714
00:33:49.859 --> 00:33:50.220
for her.

715
00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:55.740
Except that I have to say that the final scene in last Christmas

716
00:33:55.740 --> 00:34:00.180
with her, though it's good, is nothing like so good as what we end

717
00:34:00.180 --> 00:34:01.799
up getting in Face the Raven.

718
00:34:01.859 --> 00:34:05.819
Like, I think we do end up with something more interesting in her

719
00:34:05.819 --> 00:34:06.539
departure.

720
00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:10.440
A little bit more operatic and overblown, but I'm here for that

721
00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:10.739
too.

722
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:15.119
This sort of segues into a question that Stephen B has asked us

723
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:15.539
which is this.

724
00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:17.940
I would like to know what you will think contributed to the

725
00:34:17.940 --> 00:34:18.960
decline in ratings.

726
00:34:19.019 --> 00:34:23.940
Dave, the doctor was such a hit, but we drop unjustly to 6700000

727
00:34:23.940 --> 00:34:27.480
viewers with flatline, is an older grumpier doctor the cause or

728
00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:30.000
has traditional television medits match in streaming.

729
00:34:30.059 --> 00:34:33.059
I'm going to disagree with the premise of that question because I

730
00:34:33.059 --> 00:34:36.000
don't think that the ratings really are affected much this year.

731
00:34:36.059 --> 00:34:39.659
They're little bit down on Matt Smith's last year, even not taking

732
00:34:39.659 --> 00:34:41.940
into account day of the doctor and time of the doctor.

733
00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:46.559
And so I think that will account for ratings falling off a bit of

734
00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:50.219
a cliff next year, but I think there's residual goodwill in this

735
00:34:50.219 --> 00:34:53.760
season coming off the 50th, that the audience mainly sticks with

736
00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:54.000
it.

737
00:34:54.059 --> 00:34:56.820
I think then you just have a 9 month break between this and the

738
00:34:56.820 --> 00:34:57.300
next season.

739
00:34:57.360 --> 00:34:59.820
And the interest seems to have evaporated a little bit.

740
00:34:59.880 --> 00:35:03.179
I remember living in Britain at the time, and Doctor Who, during

741
00:35:03.179 --> 00:35:07.019
the David Tennant and Matt Smith eras, was all over media.

742
00:35:07.079 --> 00:35:10.920
So they would be appearing on comedy shows and hosting and chat

743
00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:12.059
shows and all of that.

744
00:35:12.059 --> 00:35:13.739
And it just seemed overnight.

745
00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:16.019
It sort of dried up after the 50th.

746
00:35:16.139 --> 00:35:18.300
And so I'm wondering if that's really the reason it just wasn't

747
00:35:18.300 --> 00:35:18.960
pervasive anymore.

748
00:35:19.019 --> 00:35:23.280
And then you get like a whole year without Doctor Who and then you

749
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:24.179
get series 10.

750
00:35:24.480 --> 00:35:25.019
Yeah.

751
00:35:25.079 --> 00:35:25.380
Yeah.

752
00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:28.980
I think it's definitely the hangover, the 50th anniversary

753
00:35:28.980 --> 00:35:31.739
hangover, and I think Doctor Who suffers from it after the 20th

754
00:35:31.739 --> 00:35:32.460
anniversary as well.

755
00:35:32.519 --> 00:35:35.760
It's everywhere and then people are just a little bit over it.

756
00:35:35.820 --> 00:35:36.780
You're right, Peter.

757
00:35:36.840 --> 00:35:39.960
I was just looking at the ratings for series 7 versus series 8 and

758
00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:42.780
they are pretty similar with a few.

759
00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:43.980
Oh, actually, no, that's the snowman.

760
00:35:44.039 --> 00:35:45.539
So that's the Christmas episodes.

761
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:46.320
So that's kind of up.

762
00:35:46.380 --> 00:35:46.679
But yeah.

763
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:49.920
It sort of falls by like .2 of a 1000000 over the season.

764
00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:52.260
It gets into the Sixers, you know, with Crimson Horror and

765
00:35:52.260 --> 00:35:54.780
Nightmare and Silver, but which is kind of where this season ends

766
00:35:54.780 --> 00:35:55.380
up in the middle.

767
00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:58.500
But there is a substantial drop after deep breath.

768
00:35:58.500 --> 00:36:02.219
There's like three, you know, 2500000 between the two. which is

769
00:36:02.219 --> 00:36:02.519
interesting.

770
00:36:02.579 --> 00:36:04.079
Can I just talk to this as well?

771
00:36:04.139 --> 00:36:06.239
Yeah, you've got a table there.

772
00:36:06.300 --> 00:36:07.500
Oh, I like tables.

773
00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:08.760
I like all the ratings here.

774
00:36:08.820 --> 00:36:09.000
Yes.

775
00:36:09.059 --> 00:36:11.760
And my tables here totally agree with you.

776
00:36:11.820 --> 00:36:14.340
There is the same pattern in the 2nd half of the Matt Smith

777
00:36:14.340 --> 00:36:18.719
seasons is, and even in David Tennant's, is that you do get drops

778
00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:21.539
into the 6 millions in that 2nd half of the season.

779
00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:25.980
And I have to say like 6.7, been the lowest in this season, is

780
00:36:25.980 --> 00:36:28.920
more than 4 of the episodes for Matt Smith last season.

781
00:36:28.980 --> 00:36:30.900
So it's not like it's really dramatic.

782
00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:33.780
And I do think I totally agree with you.

783
00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:37.440
It's the hangover after the 50th, but it's also a natural stepping

784
00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:37.920
off point.

785
00:36:37.980 --> 00:36:41.699
I think a lot of television series and I'm probably thinking more

786
00:36:41.699 --> 00:36:43.079
of Australia and America.

787
00:36:43.139 --> 00:36:48.239
A lot of series to the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s would last five, six, 7

788
00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:50.099
years, maybe 8 if you were a big hit.

789
00:36:50.099 --> 00:36:53.099
And there's a natural point where ratings do begin to climb and

790
00:36:53.099 --> 00:36:54.599
then they decide to call it a day.

791
00:36:54.659 --> 00:36:59.280
And here, you've got Matt Smith coming in for series 5 where

792
00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:01.739
people could have stopped watching, but it was such a hit and they

793
00:37:01.739 --> 00:37:02.340
were so wonderful.

794
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:06.719
And then that renews the audience and then you've got the buildup

795
00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:08.460
to the 50th and people are still there.

796
00:37:08.460 --> 00:37:11.699
And then this year they're still with the show.

797
00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:14.460
And if it had been just a grumpy doctor.

798
00:37:14.519 --> 00:37:16.559
I think we would have just had a free fall throughout the entire

799
00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:21.059
season, which is simply not the case, you know, it comes back at

800
00:37:21.059 --> 00:37:21.840
the end of the season.

801
00:37:21.900 --> 00:37:26.280
What's interesting, I think, is the Christmas special, which is

802
00:37:26.280 --> 00:37:30.300
the 1st time a Christmas special has not reached 9000000 viewers.

803
00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:33.719
It's 8.6 or something like that, 8.7, but there's a 1000000

804
00:37:33.719 --> 00:37:38.159
watching on BBC iPlayer, which indicates, I think, a shift in

805
00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:39.360
viewing habits.

806
00:37:39.480 --> 00:37:41.280
And if that stuff is added in now.

807
00:37:41.340 --> 00:37:43.619
Like if half of that had been added in, it would have gotten over

808
00:37:43.619 --> 00:37:44.280
9 million.

809
00:37:44.340 --> 00:37:47.340
You also look at the audience appreciation, the audience

810
00:37:47.340 --> 00:37:48.900
appreciation for this season.

811
00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:54.300
Very good, like 82, 83, 84 and 85 for those mummy and flatline

812
00:37:54.300 --> 00:37:55.380
which are my favourites of the season.

813
00:37:55.440 --> 00:37:59.760
But if you look back at Matt Smith, he's getting 85, 86, 87, 88

814
00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:00.360
for a lot of things.

815
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:02.699
And say the tenor was getting into the 90s sometimes.

816
00:38:02.820 --> 00:38:03.719
Yeah, that's right.

817
00:38:03.780 --> 00:38:06.179
There's subtle shifts going on.

818
00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:08.099
As you say, when we come back.

819
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:14.519
It's suddenly 6.5,50000 and even this season is still placing

820
00:38:14.519 --> 00:38:16.500
about the same in the mid-teens.

821
00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:19.980
Next season, it is about 6 or 7 places lower than that.

822
00:38:20.039 --> 00:38:21.599
So there is a bit of fatigue.

823
00:38:21.659 --> 00:38:24.179
And I kind of think had we had a new companion coming into next

824
00:38:24.179 --> 00:38:27.900
season that may have just generated a bit more.

825
00:38:28.199 --> 00:38:30.599
The doctor and Clara and the TARDIS, same old, same old.

826
00:38:30.780 --> 00:38:35.820
Stephen, sorry to say, I don't think it's as bad as perhaps that

827
00:38:35.820 --> 00:38:39.960
perspective makes out or what the general consensus happens to be

828
00:38:39.960 --> 00:38:42.719
that, oh, suddenly it just fell away that I don't agree.

829
00:38:42.900 --> 00:38:44.400
Simon?

830
00:38:44.460 --> 00:38:46.320
Although that is to come, I think.

831
00:38:46.380 --> 00:38:48.480
I think I think he's question is just one season early, early

832
00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:49.019
perhaps.

833
00:38:49.079 --> 00:38:51.119
If I can just sort of explore the hangover thing.

834
00:38:51.179 --> 00:38:53.280
I don't think it's just necessary that people at home are sick of

835
00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:55.679
it, but I think it's Peter, you were mentioned, doctor was

836
00:38:55.679 --> 00:38:56.519
everywhere in the media.

837
00:38:56.579 --> 00:38:58.800
You know, there were people on chat shows, there were media

838
00:38:58.800 --> 00:38:59.760
stories about it.

839
00:38:59.820 --> 00:39:02.039
And I think so, it's actually the PR machine.

840
00:39:02.099 --> 00:39:04.260
Well, not the PR machine, but the respondents to the PR machine

841
00:39:04.260 --> 00:39:06.360
that are going, oh, we've done stories about Dr. Elasi.

842
00:39:06.420 --> 00:39:08.940
We won't bother having that many interviews and we won't have this

843
00:39:08.940 --> 00:39:11.639
many features in the daily, this, that, and the other.

844
00:39:11.699 --> 00:39:15.360
And so that actually then makes people less aware that it's on.

845
00:39:15.420 --> 00:39:19.079
And maybe the BBC trailer people go, oh, we won't show as many

846
00:39:19.079 --> 00:39:21.840
trailers anymore because we did that last year and, you know, we've

847
00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:22.260
had enough of that.

848
00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:23.760
There's this new thing that we want to do.

849
00:39:23.820 --> 00:39:26.880
And it kind of, it's snowballs, that does start to snowball.

850
00:39:26.940 --> 00:39:27.960
It does.

851
00:39:28.019 --> 00:39:30.780
And also, it's the kind of program there is as well.

852
00:39:30.900 --> 00:39:35.099
So for rightly or for wrongly, I think that Doctor Who maximised

853
00:39:35.099 --> 00:39:38.579
its ratings potential with doctors like David Tennant and Matt

854
00:39:38.579 --> 00:39:39.059
Smith.

855
00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:42.000
And I think there was a general public audience which were

856
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:46.320
receptive to them and liked that iteration of Doctor Who.

857
00:39:46.440 --> 00:39:48.360
And you still get that this season.

858
00:39:48.420 --> 00:39:51.239
You get a bit of a kind of a, you know, people are loyal to it.

859
00:39:51.300 --> 00:39:52.500
And so they do watch the season.

860
00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:55.860
But eventually, by next season, come to the inclusion that's not

861
00:39:55.860 --> 00:39:57.480
actually a show that they're interested in.

862
00:39:57.539 --> 00:40:01.320
And while I don't think that is a good show or a bad show.

863
00:40:01.380 --> 00:40:04.380
I just think there's 2 or 3000000 people who watch the show

864
00:40:04.380 --> 00:40:06.119
because they like a David Tennant style doctor.

865
00:40:06.719 --> 00:40:13.079
I think too, we underestimate the importance of RTD in all of this

866
00:40:13.079 --> 00:40:16.739
and it's been a few years since he left, obviously for us at this

867
00:40:16.739 --> 00:40:20.400
point, but if you look at what's happening right now and just the

868
00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:24.119
amount of buzz that the show is generating, even though it's not

869
00:40:24.119 --> 00:40:30.780
actually on, I think Russell is supremely good at getting the show

870
00:40:30.780 --> 00:40:31.380
talked about.

871
00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:35.699
Do you remember it was absolutely baffling that our stupid show

872
00:40:35.699 --> 00:40:40.019
could possibly be the biggest thing on television that it's being

873
00:40:40.019 --> 00:40:41.340
talked about by everyone.

874
00:40:41.400 --> 00:40:42.599
There's major news stories.

875
00:40:42.659 --> 00:40:45.659
Doctor Who was always kind of good at getting in the tabloids and

876
00:40:45.659 --> 00:40:46.260
stuff like that.

877
00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:50.039
And, you know, like the news would report when a new person was

878
00:40:50.039 --> 00:40:54.179
you know, evening television news would report when a new person

879
00:40:54.179 --> 00:40:56.099
was cast as the doctor and stuff.

880
00:40:56.159 --> 00:40:58.500
But I mean, Russell just sort of turned that up to 11.

881
00:40:58.800 --> 00:40:59.880
It was incredible.

882
00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:02.519
Like it was a very strange thing.

883
00:41:02.579 --> 00:41:07.920
And neither of his successes has been anywhere near as good at

884
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:09.300
making that happen.

885
00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:14.099
I mean, Doctor Who's only been water cooler, generally speaking, 3

886
00:41:14.099 --> 00:41:15.119
times in its life.

887
00:41:15.179 --> 00:41:18.840
So originally with the Daleks and then maybe the Hinchcliffe era

888
00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:21.599
and then the Russell T. Davies years.

889
00:41:21.659 --> 00:41:23.880
And that was putting the cart.

890
00:41:23.940 --> 00:41:26.099
Otherwise, it was putting the cart before the horse.

891
00:41:26.159 --> 00:41:29.340
So Doctor Who's always been good at drumming up publicity, but I

892
00:41:29.340 --> 00:41:32.699
think that is then given to a fairly passive audience and

893
00:41:32.699 --> 00:41:36.239
readership, whereas during those 3 eras, especially during the

894
00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:40.440
late David Tennant era, it was actually coming from the people who

895
00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:40.980
were watching.

896
00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:45.059
People were genuinely interested and hungry for more and more.

897
00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:46.199
And so the show was everywhere.

898
00:41:46.619 --> 00:41:51.599
But also, I think, I mean, it's not just RTDs, you know, PR

899
00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:52.260
abilities.

900
00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:56.880
It's also the fact that his style of program was lighter and

901
00:41:56.880 --> 00:41:58.440
fluffier, much more disposable.

902
00:41:58.500 --> 00:42:01.500
People could just sit down on a Saturday evening and watch it and

903
00:42:01.500 --> 00:42:03.900
have fun and enjoy it and that was it.

904
00:42:03.960 --> 00:42:07.559
Whereas I think, and I think with the Matt Smith era, you've got, I

905
00:42:07.559 --> 00:42:09.960
think you've got, you know, much better scripts and stories and

906
00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:12.539
it's much more interesting, but I think the magnetism of Matt

907
00:42:12.539 --> 00:42:15.480
Smith and the whole river song thing, I think, also helps to carry

908
00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:15.900
that through.

909
00:42:15.960 --> 00:42:18.480
I think by the time when you get this far, and the stories are

910
00:42:18.480 --> 00:42:22.739
getting more esoteric and a bit stranger and some of them aren't

911
00:42:22.739 --> 00:42:23.280
really working.

912
00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:26.340
And I think that's also probably...

913
00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:26.940
People love.

914
00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:29.880
And the doctor himself is like, although it's odd because Peter

915
00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:31.679
Capaldi is a very known quantity.

916
00:42:31.739 --> 00:42:33.179
So that's a bit surprised.

917
00:42:33.179 --> 00:42:36.000
And he is kind of, they're definitely channelling Malcolm Tucker

918
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:36.480
at times.

919
00:42:36.599 --> 00:42:40.260
So they are delivering the doctor that I think people were

920
00:42:40.260 --> 00:42:41.880
expecting out of Peter Capaldi.

921
00:42:41.940 --> 00:42:45.119
But I just think overall the scripts, the stories are all getting

922
00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:49.320
a bit too often they're just failing in some way.

923
00:42:49.380 --> 00:42:50.699
And I think that also doesn't help.

924
00:42:50.760 --> 00:42:51.659
Oh, they're too confusing.

925
00:42:51.719 --> 00:42:52.380
What the hell's that?

926
00:42:52.440 --> 00:42:55.320
I don't understand and that's ridiculous and so on.

927
00:42:55.380 --> 00:42:58.860
And too twisty, and not in a kind of a timey, whimey Matt Smith's

928
00:42:58.860 --> 00:42:59.880
era kind of way either.

929
00:42:59.940 --> 00:43:02.639
Do you think it's time for Stephen to leave?

930
00:43:02.699 --> 00:43:03.659
Like, this is his 4th season?

931
00:43:03.719 --> 00:43:05.219
Absolutely. absolutely absolutely.

932
00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:07.079
I think much I love. think it's time?

933
00:43:07.139 --> 00:43:09.420
I don't think it's time for Stephen to leave.

934
00:43:09.480 --> 00:43:13.019
I think this is a much more successful season on balance than

935
00:43:13.019 --> 00:43:17.699
either 6 or 7 because it's got a really interesting idea powering

936
00:43:17.699 --> 00:43:19.920
it and somebody we haven't really talked about.

937
00:43:19.980 --> 00:43:21.119
We talked about lesser episodes.

938
00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:25.079
There's a bunch, 6 or 7 of really great episodes in there.

939
00:43:25.139 --> 00:43:29.699
You know, things like listen, mummy, flatline, dark water, deep

940
00:43:29.699 --> 00:43:31.500
breath's pretty good, time heist.

941
00:43:31.559 --> 00:43:31.980
I really like.

942
00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:35.460
It's a series which is still hitting high, I think.

943
00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:38.940
Time Heist is one of the ones for me that is just so surprising.

944
00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:39.780
Like I really love it.

945
00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:42.960
I mean, I also put put Sherwood in that group because I think it's

946
00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:43.380
just so funny.

947
00:43:43.380 --> 00:43:44.639
It's probably fun.

948
00:43:44.699 --> 00:43:45.719
I really adore it.

949
00:43:45.780 --> 00:43:49.139
I think there are as good episodes as any other season as this, but

950
00:43:49.139 --> 00:43:51.900
this is, you know, after series five.

951
00:43:51.960 --> 00:43:55.320
This is a great series and I think it's criminally underrated, but

952
00:43:55.320 --> 00:43:58.260
there's so much that comes to the forefront, like with

953
00:43:58.260 --> 00:44:02.280
imperfections that you kind of think, oh, is it actually, like, am

954
00:44:02.280 --> 00:44:02.940
I a good doctor?

955
00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:03.719
Is this a good season?

956
00:44:03.960 --> 00:44:06.239
Is this a good question, yeah.

957
00:44:06.300 --> 00:44:06.840
I think it is.

958
00:44:06.900 --> 00:44:09.179
Look, yeah, yeah, well, I don't know.

959
00:44:09.239 --> 00:44:11.159
I mean, I think there's much to recommend it, as you're saying.

960
00:44:11.219 --> 00:44:13.860
There are some great episodes in there.

961
00:44:13.920 --> 00:44:18.420
I think listen for me is the only one that gets to the real

962
00:44:18.420 --> 00:44:19.139
heights.

963
00:44:19.199 --> 00:44:22.260
I think, and I love Time Heist as well.

964
00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:25.380
I think all of the others you rattled off are...

965
00:44:25.380 --> 00:44:30.000
Good is, it's kind of, to put it in your palons, kind of todd 7

966
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:30.420
out of 10.

967
00:44:30.599 --> 00:44:32.280
Like, it's kind of like, yes, they're perfectly fine.

968
00:44:32.340 --> 00:44:36.119
I enjoyed them, but I'm not for some reason, I'm not being drawn

969
00:44:36.119 --> 00:44:39.659
into them like I was by so many episodes in series 5, 6, and 7.

970
00:44:39.719 --> 00:44:41.940
And I know that 6 and 7 give.

971
00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:44.460
Yeah, no, see, I think there's some great stuff in it.

972
00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:46.500
There are some also stuff that sort of annoyed me.

973
00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:47.519
I do like it.

974
00:44:47.579 --> 00:44:48.840
I think it's good.

975
00:44:48.900 --> 00:44:52.019
As I said, good lowercase G, good. not outstanding.

976
00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:53.219
And I think there's many more outstanding.

977
00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:56.519
And I think there are those too many episodes which do drag the

978
00:44:56.519 --> 00:44:57.179
whole thing down.

979
00:44:57.239 --> 00:44:59.400
Again, I think Mummy, I think is fine.

980
00:44:59.579 --> 00:45:02.880
I'm just not engaged with it, but, you know, and then there are

981
00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:04.800
the other episodes which we've already spent too much time on

982
00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:07.920
which are definitely the sort of the weaker ones and they really

983
00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:08.639
do let it down.

984
00:45:08.699 --> 00:45:10.920
And I know people don't like things like nightmare in silver that

985
00:45:10.920 --> 00:45:11.159
much.

986
00:45:11.159 --> 00:45:13.800
And I know people don't like things like the gang is two-parter.

987
00:45:13.860 --> 00:45:17.760
But I still prefer...

988
00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:19.320
But I still prefer...

989
00:45:19.500 --> 00:45:23.099
I'm much more drawn into the gangers two-parter than I am to about

990
00:45:23.099 --> 00:45:24.000
half of this season.

991
00:45:24.059 --> 00:45:27.659
So that kind of shows where I am in terms of the relative levels

992
00:45:27.659 --> 00:45:29.099
of the year is.

993
00:45:29.159 --> 00:45:32.039
I'm just saying Stephen Moffat should have gone and, you know, J

994
00:45:32.039 --> 00:45:33.000
and T must go now.

995
00:45:33.059 --> 00:45:37.980
I'm still sort of in that zone, partly because I think a producer

996
00:45:37.980 --> 00:45:39.840
slash showrunner should only cast one doctor.

997
00:45:39.900 --> 00:45:43.500
Now, I know we had Christopher Eccleston, but that was just a kind

998
00:45:43.500 --> 00:45:47.099
of a, obviously like a prologue to the actual run, which was the

999
00:45:47.099 --> 00:45:48.539
David Tennant run for ITD.

1000
00:45:48.599 --> 00:45:52.199
And likewise, with JNT, he starts to, you know, obviously lose the

1001
00:45:52.199 --> 00:45:52.860
plot somewhat.

1002
00:45:52.920 --> 00:45:56.400
I think the showrunner or producer has put their all into the

1003
00:45:56.400 --> 00:45:58.739
direction of the show when they cast a doctor.

1004
00:45:58.800 --> 00:46:02.639
And then when they need to do that again, I think that's when they

1005
00:46:02.639 --> 00:46:06.960
sort of go, okay, now we've done plan A. Let's do plan B now.

1006
00:46:07.019 --> 00:46:10.800
And plan B is going to be different to plan A. And I think with

1007
00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:13.739
the RTD era, as I understood it, well, didn't he originally, were

1008
00:46:13.739 --> 00:46:16.380
they originally talking to Tennant in the 1st instance?

1009
00:46:17.579 --> 00:46:20.880
They're always interested in casting David Tennant, but they

1010
00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:21.960
needed a name to bring it back.

1011
00:46:22.019 --> 00:46:23.159
Exactly.

1012
00:46:23.219 --> 00:46:26.159
So I wonder whether with the RTD era, they do plan B before they

1013
00:46:26.159 --> 00:46:29.820
then do plan A. It's interesting, but also, I mean, you can see it

1014
00:46:29.820 --> 00:46:33.179
in the, what you were saying about kind of, you know, what do you

1015
00:46:33.179 --> 00:46:34.920
do when you're then casting another doctor.

1016
00:46:34.980 --> 00:46:36.539
You know, you have to come up with a completely different

1017
00:46:36.539 --> 00:46:37.619
approach.

1018
00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:40.500
And you can see it in deep breath and the 11th hour.

1019
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:46.320
The 11th hour is such an immaculate opening episode for a doctor.

1020
00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:46.860
It's spectacular.

1021
00:46:46.920 --> 00:46:47.579
Yeah wonderful.

1022
00:46:47.639 --> 00:46:51.960
Whereas deep breath is a good episode, but doesn't necessarily do

1023
00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:56.099
anything very different or bring in something.

1024
00:46:56.159 --> 00:47:00.300
But I will say, I will say that I would rail against the idea that

1025
00:47:00.300 --> 00:47:05.039
Moffat stayed too long. because I think that is undermined by the

1026
00:47:05.039 --> 00:47:10.500
facts because from my perspective, his 1st season, series 5, this

1027
00:47:10.500 --> 00:47:13.980
season, series 8, and series 10, are his best seasons.

1028
00:47:14.039 --> 00:47:17.400
So you have a critical mass of his best work in the 2nd half of

1029
00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:18.000
his era.

1030
00:47:18.059 --> 00:47:22.139
The only trouble with the series 10 thing is that I actually think

1031
00:47:22.139 --> 00:47:24.659
most of the episodes in series 10 are not very good.

1032
00:47:24.659 --> 00:47:29.340
And what is good is the show. like we're in Bristol.

1033
00:47:29.400 --> 00:47:31.320
He's a professor with an office.

1034
00:47:31.380 --> 00:47:35.039
We have Bill, we have Nardol, and we have, you know, an incredible

1035
00:47:35.039 --> 00:47:35.699
finale.

1036
00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:40.500
I love series 10, but I actually think the individual episodes and

1037
00:47:40.500 --> 00:47:42.239
even the Moffat episodes are not that great.

1038
00:47:42.300 --> 00:47:43.980
But we have a lovely dynamic.

1039
00:47:44.039 --> 00:47:45.300
We have people be liked.

1040
00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:45.960
Yeah.

1041
00:47:46.019 --> 00:47:47.039
And I think...

1042
00:47:47.039 --> 00:47:47.940
She'll she push through that.

1043
00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:48.179
Yeah.

1044
00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:50.639
And I feel the same way about A as well.

1045
00:47:50.699 --> 00:47:55.260
I think 8 works really well, even separate to the question of, are

1046
00:47:55.260 --> 00:47:59.460
the episodes good because we've given Clara a place to live?

1047
00:47:59.519 --> 00:48:04.199
We've given her another character to interact with her

1048
00:48:04.199 --> 00:48:06.900
relationship with the doctor, you know, the idea that she's

1049
00:48:06.900 --> 00:48:10.739
sneaking out to go on adventures with the doctor while she has a

1050
00:48:10.739 --> 00:48:11.579
boyfriend at home.

1051
00:48:11.639 --> 00:48:15.900
All of that stuff, it plays into Moffatt's ability to write things

1052
00:48:15.900 --> 00:48:19.559
set in schools and things that are romantic comedies.

1053
00:48:19.679 --> 00:48:25.619
And so for me, I think this series is my favourite Capaldi series

1054
00:48:25.619 --> 00:48:26.400
for those reasons.

1055
00:48:26.519 --> 00:48:31.079
You've now mentioned the other arc, which is the rom-com of Danny

1056
00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:35.099
and Clara, which I hadn't really picked up on the 1st time through

1057
00:48:35.099 --> 00:48:37.440
and this time it was actually a joy to watch.

1058
00:48:37.500 --> 00:48:40.800
And I think if you buy their relationship and you think they've

1059
00:48:40.800 --> 00:48:43.500
got chemistry, then you're going to really like that aspect.

1060
00:48:43.559 --> 00:48:47.880
And if you don't, then obviously that's problematic as a viewer.

1061
00:48:47.940 --> 00:48:51.420
They're both very attractive as well Yeah, I've had date switcher

1062
00:48:51.420 --> 00:48:52.199
and trap trauma.

1063
00:48:52.260 --> 00:48:52.739
No, maybe.

1064
00:48:52.739 --> 00:48:54.659
I haven't had dates we shouldn't talk to astronauts.

1065
00:48:54.719 --> 00:48:55.980
I've just been on dates with aliens.

1066
00:48:59.460 --> 00:49:03.119
Speaking of which, it's time for a stock Marriott void.

1067
00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:05.340
So, Nathan.

1068
00:49:05.400 --> 00:49:08.940
Perkins, Professor Morehouse or Santa?

1069
00:49:09.239 --> 00:49:11.820
I would avoid Perkins.

1070
00:49:11.880 --> 00:49:15.960
I'm not quite sure why he's got a kind of he's got a sort of

1071
00:49:15.960 --> 00:49:20.400
snarky thing going, which I don't really like.

1072
00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:23.099
And I know he's a massive Doctor Who fan.

1073
00:49:23.159 --> 00:49:28.380
He's a big deal in the UK, but he just seemed a bit saki to me.

1074
00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:30.480
Professor Morehouse.

1075
00:49:30.539 --> 00:49:34.320
I would, I'd snog Professor Morehouse.

1076
00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:35.219
He's a good looking man.

1077
00:49:35.280 --> 00:49:39.000
He's still good looking, perhaps even more good looking than he

1078
00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:41.099
was in the 80s when he appeared in the King's Demons.

1079
00:49:41.159 --> 00:49:43.440
And after you talked to him, he could say, come, sir.

1080
00:49:43.500 --> 00:49:44.460
Dispatch.

1081
00:49:45.059 --> 00:49:50.280
And then obviously I would marry Santa because there's, you know

1082
00:49:50.280 --> 00:49:52.980
like a big house in it for me with a lots of presents.

1083
00:49:53.039 --> 00:49:56.940
Yeah, yeah, a pole, stripy pole, the whole...

1084
00:49:57.000 --> 00:49:57.960
Yeah, let's not.

1085
00:49:58.019 --> 00:49:59.099
So yes.

1086
00:49:59.159 --> 00:49:59.519
Yeah.

1087
00:49:59.579 --> 00:50:02.940
And plus Nick Frost, he's lovely, you know, and I think a

1088
00:50:02.940 --> 00:50:06.300
gentleman likes having something that he can really sort of grab

1089
00:50:06.300 --> 00:50:06.900
on too.

1090
00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:07.920
Excellent.

1091
00:50:07.980 --> 00:50:09.539
So I'm going to go with another one.

1092
00:50:09.599 --> 00:50:11.460
Peter, it's not Mario Boyd.

1093
00:50:11.519 --> 00:50:15.059
Cy, Dr. Chang, Robin Hood.

1094
00:50:15.119 --> 00:50:22.139
Okay, um, I would absolutely marry Si so that then you could um

1095
00:50:22.139 --> 00:50:23.880
Snog and other things with him every day.

1096
00:50:24.059 --> 00:50:27.420
I think I would avoid what were the other two?

1097
00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:29.400
Dr. Chang and Robin Hood.

1098
00:50:29.519 --> 00:50:31.619
I would...

1099
00:50:31.679 --> 00:50:34.739
Oh, actually, I think I would, I would snog Dr. Chang.

1100
00:50:34.800 --> 00:50:35.760
That would be amazing.

1101
00:50:35.820 --> 00:50:37.380
Yeah, beck and call.

1102
00:50:37.440 --> 00:50:38.880
Robin Hollow over weeks.

1103
00:50:38.940 --> 00:50:40.440
I think episodes a bunch of toss.

1104
00:50:40.500 --> 00:50:45.420
You know, I actually think that the guy who plays Robin Hood is a

1105
00:50:45.420 --> 00:50:48.059
very attractive man, but the beard is horrific.

1106
00:50:48.119 --> 00:50:49.440
Tom River.

1107
00:50:49.500 --> 00:50:51.059
Yeah, I think most beards are horrific.

1108
00:50:51.119 --> 00:50:51.420
Sorry.

1109
00:50:51.480 --> 00:50:54.840
Sorry. love Robin Hood.

1110
00:50:54.900 --> 00:50:55.739
Yeah, yeah.

1111
00:50:55.800 --> 00:50:56.760
I think he's very sweet.

1112
00:50:57.000 --> 00:51:00.239
All right, let's talk about some of our guest stars this year.

1113
00:51:00.300 --> 00:51:02.099
We talked about Michelle Gomez.

1114
00:51:02.159 --> 00:51:05.219
Is there anybody else for you that perhaps stands out?

1115
00:51:05.340 --> 00:51:07.920
Killy Hawes, is Miss Del Fox at all?

1116
00:51:07.980 --> 00:51:08.699
Yeah.

1117
00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:11.579
Who do you like?

1118
00:51:11.699 --> 00:51:16.619
Um, I think the guy who plays the astronaut related to Danny Pink

1119
00:51:16.619 --> 00:51:19.019
does a really good job of being like Samuel Anderson.

1120
00:51:19.079 --> 00:51:19.559
Yes.

1121
00:51:19.619 --> 00:51:20.159
That's true.

1122
00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:25.920
Well, as a sorry, nobody we all think of Samuel in the role this

1123
00:51:25.920 --> 00:51:26.099
year.

1124
00:51:26.159 --> 00:51:27.179
I think he's great.

1125
00:51:27.239 --> 00:51:28.619
I think he's really, really good.

1126
00:51:28.679 --> 00:51:30.360
I mean, yeah.

1127
00:51:30.420 --> 00:51:31.800
Yeah, unquestionably.

1128
00:51:31.920 --> 00:51:33.719
I think I think he brings a great performance.

1129
00:51:33.780 --> 00:51:36.659
Yeah, the more history boys we can get into the show, you know

1130
00:51:36.659 --> 00:51:37.920
bring it on. absolutely.

1131
00:51:37.980 --> 00:51:40.920
My favourite would have to be Rigsy, the guy that actually plays

1132
00:51:40.920 --> 00:51:41.460
Rigsy.

1133
00:51:41.519 --> 00:51:42.179
I think.

1134
00:51:42.239 --> 00:51:44.880
If you count Samuel Anderson as kind of like a part of the regular

1135
00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:46.800
cast for this purpose.

1136
00:51:46.860 --> 00:51:50.699
I also think that Chris Addison in Dark Water is really funny.

1137
00:51:50.760 --> 00:51:51.900
Yeah, yeah.

1138
00:51:51.960 --> 00:51:52.739
He is pretty good.

1139
00:51:52.860 --> 00:51:55.260
I think he takes it a little further than I'd like him, but I do

1140
00:51:55.260 --> 00:51:55.619
enjoy it.

1141
00:51:55.679 --> 00:51:55.920
Yeah.

1142
00:51:55.980 --> 00:51:59.639
He does get killed when he does take it. too far. you know, Missy

1143
00:51:59.639 --> 00:52:01.380
does disintegrate him then.

1144
00:52:01.440 --> 00:52:02.340
That's true, actually.

1145
00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:03.360
Yes, yes, yes.

1146
00:52:03.420 --> 00:52:05.579
I think he's maybe taken it too far even before then.

1147
00:52:05.639 --> 00:52:07.380
But anyway, he's there.

1148
00:52:07.440 --> 00:52:07.980
He's there.

1149
00:52:08.039 --> 00:52:09.659
He's there for a reason.

1150
00:52:09.659 --> 00:52:12.420
And he's one of those examples, and I think some of the kind of

1151
00:52:12.420 --> 00:52:14.940
some of the female villains we've had over the years in the new

1152
00:52:14.940 --> 00:52:18.659
series have been this as well, is that they kind of lean into the

1153
00:52:18.659 --> 00:52:23.099
over the top camp villain of often a woman or sort of like a man

1154
00:52:23.099 --> 00:52:26.159
who reads gay because they were so successful and they're so

1155
00:52:26.159 --> 00:52:27.480
memorable from the original series.

1156
00:52:27.539 --> 00:52:30.059
But in some respect they happen in the original series almost by

1157
00:52:30.059 --> 00:52:32.760
accident and just because of the production style of the time.

1158
00:52:32.820 --> 00:52:35.940
Whereas if you lift them out of, if you lift Miss Winters out of

1159
00:52:35.940 --> 00:52:39.059
robot and stick her in, or Harrison Chase out of seeds of doom and

1160
00:52:39.059 --> 00:52:43.380
stick them in the modern era, with proper HD and everything, they

1161
00:52:43.380 --> 00:52:44.940
would probably be out of place.

1162
00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:46.980
And I think that for me is what Chris Addison is doing.

1163
00:52:47.039 --> 00:52:50.280
Whereas Michelle Gomez, as Missy, is not doing that, she, for me

1164
00:52:50.280 --> 00:52:52.980
is sitting on the right line of over the top.

1165
00:52:53.039 --> 00:52:55.139
And speaking of Keeley whores.

1166
00:52:55.199 --> 00:52:58.380
I think I mentioned on time heist that I had not really enjoyed

1167
00:52:58.380 --> 00:53:00.840
Keeley Paws as a performer before that.

1168
00:53:00.900 --> 00:53:03.000
I'd seen her in a bunch of things where she was quite cold and

1169
00:53:03.000 --> 00:53:03.719
unlikeable.

1170
00:53:03.780 --> 00:53:08.039
But time heist, I suddenly went, okay, diva, and, you know, it led

1171
00:53:08.039 --> 00:53:10.320
to such amazing things as it's a sin.

1172
00:53:10.440 --> 00:53:12.420
Yeah, I really love her in that too.

1173
00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:16.440
I think Ben Miller does a great job is the sheriff of Nottingham.

1174
00:53:16.500 --> 00:53:17.760
Yeah, I think he's always good.

1175
00:53:17.820 --> 00:53:19.619
Choose the scenery bit, which I always like.

1176
00:53:19.800 --> 00:53:21.599
The right amount, though.

1177
00:53:21.659 --> 00:53:22.380
That's right.

1178
00:53:22.440 --> 00:53:25.019
It's great to see Sheila Reed back as grand.

1179
00:53:25.079 --> 00:53:27.179
Is she back or is this her?

1180
00:53:27.239 --> 00:53:28.860
Yep, no, she's back.

1181
00:53:28.920 --> 00:53:30.960
Oh, yes, yes, yes.

1182
00:53:31.019 --> 00:53:31.380
Yes.

1183
00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:35.519
And then, of course, we have Ingrid Oliver as Osgood, which we

1184
00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:39.360
mentioned she's just glorious and the wonderful, the wonderful

1185
00:53:39.360 --> 00:53:40.860
Gemma Redgrave, Peter.

1186
00:53:40.920 --> 00:53:45.960
I actually like her a bit more in this 2 partner at the end

1187
00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:46.199
actually.

1188
00:53:46.260 --> 00:53:48.239
I mean, yeah, she's all right.

1189
00:53:48.300 --> 00:53:52.079
She's never better than when she's flying through the air about to

1190
00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:52.739
splash on the ground.

1191
00:53:52.800 --> 00:53:55.440
Yeah, I don't know.

1192
00:53:55.440 --> 00:53:56.219
How generous.

1193
00:53:57.179 --> 00:54:00.239
I don't have anything necessarily against her.

1194
00:54:00.300 --> 00:54:03.840
It's just it feels like the unit personnel from the two-parter in

1195
00:54:03.840 --> 00:54:06.599
series 4. where you just get new.

1196
00:54:06.659 --> 00:54:09.599
You know, I want my unit personnel to be like the brigadier and

1197
00:54:09.599 --> 00:54:10.860
Benton and Yates.

1198
00:54:10.920 --> 00:54:13.079
So I know, you know, there might be issues with performance

1199
00:54:13.079 --> 00:54:15.900
whatever, but you got to know them and they felt warm and

1200
00:54:15.900 --> 00:54:16.440
comfortable.

1201
00:54:16.500 --> 00:54:19.139
Whereas none of these new unit personnel who've been introduced in

1202
00:54:19.139 --> 00:54:20.219
the new series.

1203
00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:21.539
Do anything or go anywhere.

1204
00:54:21.599 --> 00:54:23.400
They're utterly faceless, and she's one of them.

1205
00:54:23.460 --> 00:54:24.719
I think...

1206
00:54:24.719 --> 00:54:26.159
No, I think I think I was good.

1207
00:54:26.219 --> 00:54:26.340
Yeah.

1208
00:54:26.880 --> 00:54:28.800
I think I've got all the guys.

1209
00:54:28.800 --> 00:54:31.679
And I also like Captain Magumbo from a few years ago.

1210
00:54:31.739 --> 00:54:32.519
She was fantastic.

1211
00:54:32.579 --> 00:54:35.519
I think she deserved it. come back.

1212
00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:36.599
Yes.

1213
00:54:36.659 --> 00:54:39.719
Michelle Morris is the Annalise of this season.

1214
00:54:39.960 --> 00:54:42.239
She's the school secretary.

1215
00:54:42.300 --> 00:54:45.420
I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to have her also in the

1216
00:54:45.420 --> 00:54:46.800
caretaker, but that didn't happen.

1217
00:54:46.860 --> 00:54:52.199
Moffatt has a great school secretary in press gang, a really great

1218
00:54:52.199 --> 00:54:54.000
one who's a very memorable character.

1219
00:54:54.059 --> 00:54:56.760
So I'm glad to see him attempting another school secretary in

1220
00:54:56.760 --> 00:55:12.179
series A. All right, so here's some other questions.

1221
00:55:12.239 --> 00:55:14.820
What do we think about the opening titles and music now that we've

1222
00:55:14.820 --> 00:55:15.360
had them for a year?

1223
00:55:15.420 --> 00:55:17.460
Oh, the music's excruciating.

1224
00:55:17.460 --> 00:55:18.179
Hate them.

1225
00:55:18.599 --> 00:55:23.099
I'm actually looking forward to seeing the series 9 version with

1226
00:55:23.099 --> 00:55:25.500
the Blue Cox.

1227
00:55:25.559 --> 00:55:26.940
Is that what happens or did I dream that?

1228
00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:30.900
I don't know, but I do like the 1st half of them.

1229
00:55:31.019 --> 00:55:34.679
And then less so in the 2nd little spirally bit.

1230
00:55:34.800 --> 00:55:35.820
Yeah, terrible.

1231
00:55:35.880 --> 00:55:37.019
Dreadful music.

1232
00:55:37.079 --> 00:55:39.360
It just goes to show, and I don't want to go off on a Murray Gold

1233
00:55:39.360 --> 00:55:39.900
moment here.

1234
00:55:39.960 --> 00:55:43.019
I'm not a fan of him, not because I don't think he's a good

1235
00:55:43.019 --> 00:55:45.480
composer because I think he is, and I think he does do some great

1236
00:55:45.480 --> 00:55:50.400
music and the great, the theme of, certainly the ITD era theme and

1237
00:55:50.400 --> 00:55:51.179
music is fantastic.

1238
00:55:51.239 --> 00:55:54.239
It all suits that, but again, it comes back to like producers and

1239
00:55:54.239 --> 00:55:57.239
showrunners and casting doctors and stuff.

1240
00:55:57.300 --> 00:56:00.119
Murray Gold has already arranged the theme.

1241
00:56:00.179 --> 00:56:03.239
Not once, not twice, but 3 times.

1242
00:56:03.239 --> 00:56:06.119
And I think by the time we get to the 3rd time.

1243
00:56:06.179 --> 00:56:08.159
Well, allowing for the fact that some of them are just kind of

1244
00:56:08.159 --> 00:56:11.519
souped up bits like that that that's remixes, that that happened

1245
00:56:11.519 --> 00:56:14.699
in the 1st 17 years of the show, even though we had fundamentally

1246
00:56:14.699 --> 00:56:15.480
the same thing.

1247
00:56:15.539 --> 00:56:18.659
Again, he's done what his vision of the Doctor Who theme is

1248
00:56:18.659 --> 00:56:18.840
right?

1249
00:56:18.900 --> 00:56:21.900
And yes, you can ask him to do it again and it comes out okay.

1250
00:56:21.960 --> 00:56:25.920
But then, well, actually, I think his best one is actually the

1251
00:56:25.920 --> 00:56:28.739
series 7B opening theme and opening credits.

1252
00:56:28.800 --> 00:56:31.139
That for me is the high watermark of the entirety of the new

1253
00:56:31.139 --> 00:56:31.500
series.

1254
00:56:31.559 --> 00:56:33.059
But then by the time you get to the capacity one.

1255
00:56:33.179 --> 00:56:34.800
It's like, 0 God, he's really run out of ideas.

1256
00:56:34.860 --> 00:56:37.860
Bring in someone new to add some new flavour to the music.

1257
00:56:37.920 --> 00:56:38.880
Please, please.

1258
00:56:38.940 --> 00:56:42.000
And when that happens, I do think that the next version of the

1259
00:56:42.000 --> 00:56:45.119
theme that is yet to come is extremely good.

1260
00:56:45.179 --> 00:56:48.659
Also, the opening credits are just so generic and cheap looking.

1261
00:56:48.780 --> 00:56:51.900
Oh, I mean, it's a nice idea, but awful.

1262
00:56:51.960 --> 00:56:53.400
Yeah, it's a nice, exactly.

1263
00:56:53.460 --> 00:56:55.260
It a nice idea, but poorly executed, I think.

1264
00:56:55.559 --> 00:56:58.800
Give us some Peter Capaldi shaped time tunnel any day.

1265
00:56:58.860 --> 00:57:00.059
Absolutely.

1266
00:57:00.059 --> 00:57:03.000
Okay, speaking of Peter Capaldi, what do we think of his

1267
00:57:03.000 --> 00:57:03.420
performance?

1268
00:57:03.539 --> 00:57:09.239
Oh, I think he's astoundingly good and every bit as good as Matt

1269
00:57:09.239 --> 00:57:10.500
Smith, I think, as the doctor.

1270
00:57:10.559 --> 00:57:11.940
It's an incredible performance.

1271
00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:14.099
He's so watchable, so interesting.

1272
00:57:14.159 --> 00:57:15.539
He's funny.

1273
00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:18.059
He, you know, he can do everything.

1274
00:57:18.119 --> 00:57:19.079
I think he's amazing.

1275
00:57:19.139 --> 00:57:24.539
I think his best scene in isolation of the series might be the one

1276
00:57:24.539 --> 00:57:27.000
where Clara is threatening to destroy the TARDIS keys.

1277
00:57:27.059 --> 00:57:27.599
Yeah.

1278
00:57:27.599 --> 00:57:32.219
And he really kind of gives a lot of drama to that scene, but also

1279
00:57:32.219 --> 00:57:36.840
endless kindness when he when he actually tells Clara what the

1280
00:57:36.840 --> 00:57:40.320
situation is and that she actually wasn't out on the on the ledge

1281
00:57:40.320 --> 00:57:41.280
getting rid of the keys.

1282
00:57:41.340 --> 00:57:44.159
And I think that might be his best moment of the season.

1283
00:57:44.219 --> 00:57:45.539
It's really coming together by that point.

1284
00:57:45.599 --> 00:57:47.099
Simon.

1285
00:57:47.159 --> 00:57:48.539
Yeah, spectacular.

1286
00:57:48.599 --> 00:57:50.820
I mean, he's he's so believable.

1287
00:57:50.880 --> 00:57:53.280
The performance feels incredibly consistent.

1288
00:57:53.340 --> 00:57:57.960
Like, I don't feel like he's performing one scene one way.

1289
00:57:58.019 --> 00:58:00.239
And then, oh, now the script tells me to do this, so I'm going to

1290
00:58:00.239 --> 00:58:01.980
perform the next scene a different way.

1291
00:58:02.039 --> 00:58:06.300
It's all recognisably the same character and his timing is just

1292
00:58:06.300 --> 00:58:07.559
perfect as he delivers lines.

1293
00:58:07.619 --> 00:58:11.219
Is it a doctor performance that's actually just been honed in his

1294
00:58:11.219 --> 00:58:13.320
head for like 40 years or something?

1295
00:58:13.380 --> 00:58:14.099
It's like...

1296
00:58:14.099 --> 00:58:18.719
Exactly. become like totally... is how I'm going to do it.

1297
00:58:18.780 --> 00:58:19.440
Yeah, absolutely.

1298
00:58:19.500 --> 00:58:22.980
And you can see, you can see the fan in his performance.

1299
00:58:23.039 --> 00:58:26.519
He knows what he's doing and not a kind of in a cod performance.

1300
00:58:26.579 --> 00:58:30.239
You can see that he knows the other doctors so well that he can

1301
00:58:30.239 --> 00:58:31.199
he's channelling Tom.

1302
00:58:31.260 --> 00:58:33.059
He's channelling pertwi in the main.

1303
00:58:33.119 --> 00:58:35.219
I think those two, but yeah, he knows what he's doing.

1304
00:58:35.280 --> 00:58:38.820
I didn't think that anybody could talk Matt Smith.

1305
00:58:38.940 --> 00:58:44.820
And so we could. didn't think.

1306
00:58:45.179 --> 00:58:45.900
Thank you, Peter.

1307
00:58:45.960 --> 00:58:51.239
I didn't think Matt Smith would be superseded by someone else as

1308
00:58:51.239 --> 00:58:54.119
my favourite doctor, but by the end of this season and certainly

1309
00:58:54.119 --> 00:58:56.340
with last Christmas, that's where I'm at.

1310
00:58:56.400 --> 00:59:00.780
So quickly, yeah, I just adore watching him and everything that he

1311
00:59:00.780 --> 00:59:01.019
does.

1312
00:59:01.079 --> 00:59:03.119
Now, Jenna Coleman.

1313
00:59:03.480 --> 00:59:05.820
She's pretty good this season.

1314
00:59:05.880 --> 00:59:09.059
I mean, I do have a lot of problems with the character of Clara.

1315
00:59:09.119 --> 00:59:12.719
I think they start to write the ship and once they they give her

1316
00:59:12.719 --> 00:59:16.380
Danny, which really brings a lot of shade to the character, I

1317
00:59:16.380 --> 00:59:16.619
think.

1318
00:59:16.679 --> 00:59:18.960
And the problem has never been Jenna.

1319
00:59:18.960 --> 00:59:20.400
Jenna is a good performer.

1320
00:59:20.460 --> 00:59:24.119
I don't think she's a very warm performer, and that has undermined

1321
00:59:24.119 --> 00:59:28.139
Clara occasionally where maybe things have landed in a bit of a

1322
00:59:28.139 --> 00:59:31.139
colder fashion than they were meant to, but I think she's

1323
00:59:31.139 --> 00:59:34.440
undoubtedly in the upper echelon of people who've played

1324
00:59:34.440 --> 00:59:35.099
companions.

1325
00:59:35.159 --> 00:59:36.599
It's funny, isn't it?

1326
00:59:36.659 --> 00:59:40.139
They make a deliberate effort in series 7 to give her children to

1327
00:59:40.139 --> 00:59:44.099
look after and people to look after in order to kind of warm her

1328
00:59:44.099 --> 00:59:47.519
up a bit, but I do think that she does have a sort of ironic

1329
00:59:47.519 --> 00:59:50.940
detachment or something in the way that she plays it.

1330
00:59:51.000 --> 00:59:53.159
I think she's remarkable.

1331
00:59:53.219 --> 00:59:58.500
I think there's very rarely been companion acting as good. as what

1332
00:59:58.500 --> 01:00:02.099
we get from Jenna at the end of Kilamoon.

1333
01:00:02.159 --> 01:00:02.880
For instance.

1334
01:00:02.940 --> 01:00:04.500
I think that's an incredible scene.

1335
01:00:04.559 --> 01:00:08.519
And a little bit more on the side of kind of heightened realism

1336
01:00:08.519 --> 01:00:10.260
than we normally get as well.

1337
01:00:10.320 --> 01:00:12.000
I think it's extremely well done.

1338
01:00:12.059 --> 01:00:14.820
I think she's really great in that scene that you mentioned, Peter

1339
01:00:14.820 --> 01:00:16.800
in dark water as well.

1340
01:00:16.860 --> 01:00:18.900
I think she's good.

1341
01:00:19.019 --> 01:00:22.739
I still think she is sort of, I don't know, she is very generic.

1342
01:00:22.800 --> 01:00:23.760
Maybe that's okay.

1343
01:00:23.820 --> 01:00:29.039
She isn't an audience identification figure, but I think maybe

1344
01:00:29.039 --> 01:00:32.039
that ship sailed and the doctor is our audience identification

1345
01:00:32.039 --> 01:00:33.239
figure now anyway.

1346
01:00:33.300 --> 01:00:34.739
So that's probably okay.

1347
01:00:34.860 --> 01:00:38.219
I think Danny's our audience identification this season.

1348
01:00:38.280 --> 01:00:43.079
Well, except that we kind of want Clara to travel with a doctor

1349
01:00:43.079 --> 01:00:43.980
and he doesn't.

1350
01:00:44.159 --> 01:00:47.280
Yeah, and yeah. we don't agree with him, do we?

1351
01:00:47.340 --> 01:00:50.400
No, no, no, to be the audience identification figure, yeah, you

1352
01:00:50.400 --> 01:00:52.500
need to be wanting to go into the Tartar to step over that

1353
01:00:52.500 --> 01:00:52.920
threshold.

1354
01:00:53.039 --> 01:00:56.099
It's that season 19 Tegan problem.

1355
01:00:56.159 --> 01:01:00.719
We can't really get on board with her because her wife is so

1356
01:01:00.719 --> 01:01:02.820
fundamentally the opposite of what we want.

1357
01:01:03.239 --> 01:01:04.679
Exactly.

1358
01:01:04.739 --> 01:01:07.260
Yeah, no, I think she's awesome.

1359
01:01:07.320 --> 01:01:08.639
I really love her.

1360
01:01:08.760 --> 01:01:12.300
But I've loved virtually all the performers in this new era.

1361
01:01:12.360 --> 01:01:13.920
I think they're all, you know, quality.

1362
01:01:13.980 --> 01:01:17.099
I mean, she's one of the most quality actors we've had as a

1363
01:01:17.099 --> 01:01:17.519
companion.

1364
01:01:17.579 --> 01:01:19.380
I mean, she goes on to be Queen Victoria, for goodness sake.

1365
01:01:19.440 --> 01:01:20.820
She has a real career.

1366
01:01:20.820 --> 01:01:26.519
But I also love, I do like the way that the character does

1367
01:01:26.519 --> 01:01:28.320
slightly change between the 2 doctors.

1368
01:01:28.380 --> 01:01:31.920
It's so it's just so wonderful to have a companion who properly

1369
01:01:31.920 --> 01:01:33.119
straddles 2 doctors.

1370
01:01:33.179 --> 01:01:34.800
It happens so rarely.

1371
01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:39.719
But you even don't get it much with Tegan and Nissa because

1372
01:01:39.719 --> 01:01:41.639
they're only just at the very end of Tom.

1373
01:01:41.880 --> 01:01:45.119
The only one really is some is Liz Sladen.

1374
01:01:45.179 --> 01:01:48.239
It's just comparable Having a proper a proper run with 2 doctors.

1375
01:01:48.300 --> 01:01:49.260
And Rose, of course.

1376
01:01:49.320 --> 01:01:50.699
Oh yeah, Rose.

1377
01:01:50.760 --> 01:01:54.780
I just love all the quite a moment when Jenna's reacting to stuff

1378
01:01:54.780 --> 01:01:57.480
in the background, especially in that last episode when she's not

1379
01:01:57.480 --> 01:02:02.940
the focus, it's all the doctor, Missy, and Danny, and she just

1380
01:02:02.940 --> 01:02:06.539
sells everything so well with looks and the big eyes.

1381
01:02:21.599 --> 01:02:22.920
This is one to watch from this season.

1382
01:02:22.980 --> 01:02:23.940
Simon.

1383
01:02:24.059 --> 01:02:25.559
Listen, Peter.

1384
01:02:25.619 --> 01:02:26.940
Time heist.

1385
01:02:27.599 --> 01:02:29.820
I'm thinking, listen as well.

1386
01:02:29.880 --> 01:02:34.619
I think, listen, is extremely good, and I will choose Flatline.

1387
01:02:34.679 --> 01:02:35.820
One to avoid.

1388
01:02:36.300 --> 01:02:40.440
In the forest of the night, in the forest of the night.

1389
01:02:40.559 --> 01:02:41.820
The caretaker.

1390
01:02:41.880 --> 01:02:43.320
Kill the moon.

1391
01:02:43.500 --> 01:02:45.239
One that got away.

1392
01:02:45.360 --> 01:02:46.679
Well, it's the same 3 episodes.

1393
01:02:46.739 --> 01:02:48.119
Say, same 3 episodes that keep coming up.

1394
01:02:48.179 --> 01:02:51.000
In fact, it's the same 3 episodes that we're the ones to watch and

1395
01:02:51.000 --> 01:02:54.119
the ones to avoid, really, in terms of the ones we've been talking

1396
01:02:54.119 --> 01:02:54.780
about.

1397
01:02:54.840 --> 01:02:56.940
And one that's gotten away from us all.

1398
01:02:57.000 --> 01:02:58.380
Like Hidden Gem.

1399
01:02:58.440 --> 01:03:03.119
Actually, I think Time Heist was my hidden gem, in which case I'll

1400
01:03:03.119 --> 01:03:06.300
change my original answer and say flatline, this one to watch.

1401
01:03:06.360 --> 01:03:09.480
Yeah, I actually never find myself thinking of Flatline when I

1402
01:03:09.480 --> 01:03:11.579
think of this series, but gosh, I enjoyed it this time.

1403
01:03:11.699 --> 01:03:14.940
I think it is really properly good Yeah, smart and worse.

1404
01:03:14.940 --> 01:03:16.019
I was actually thinking flatline as well.

1405
01:03:16.079 --> 01:03:19.559
Yeah, flatline is as the hidden gem for me because I had forgotten

1406
01:03:19.559 --> 01:03:19.920
it.

1407
01:03:19.980 --> 01:03:21.539
Sorry, I hadn't forgotten it.

1408
01:03:21.599 --> 01:03:24.659
I was aware that it was there, but I'd forgotten.

1409
01:03:24.719 --> 01:03:26.039
Actually, this is really, really good.

1410
01:03:26.099 --> 01:03:30.000
I think because so many of the episodes around it are ones that I

1411
01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:33.960
either am very lukewarm too or think are terrible.

1412
01:03:34.019 --> 01:03:37.920
And so it's the one little beacon in that back half of the season

1413
01:03:37.920 --> 01:03:40.920
for me, which is actually impressively properly good, not just

1414
01:03:40.920 --> 01:03:44.400
with a small G, but with a capital G. It's also doing the thing

1415
01:03:44.400 --> 01:03:46.920
the things around that point of the season, which is just pushing

1416
01:03:46.920 --> 01:03:51.659
Doctor Who into the realms of magic even further than sort of

1417
01:03:51.659 --> 01:03:52.980
other episodes do.

1418
01:03:53.039 --> 01:03:56.460
But because it's so strong, we don't care and most people don't

1419
01:03:56.460 --> 01:03:57.000
notice, I think.

1420
01:03:57.119 --> 01:03:59.880
And Rigsy is such a lender with a Y.

1421
01:03:59.940 --> 01:04:02.699
He's just such companion potential.

1422
01:04:03.119 --> 01:04:07.320
My episode would be time heist because I really just think it's

1423
01:04:07.320 --> 01:04:07.980
forgotten.

1424
01:04:08.039 --> 01:04:13.199
And I'll always, also include Robert of Sherwood, because I just

1425
01:04:13.199 --> 01:04:13.559
have to.

1426
01:04:13.619 --> 01:04:16.380
But Time Heist is that wonderful doctor thing.

1427
01:04:16.440 --> 01:04:18.000
It's the best thing in the Dog 2 canon.

1428
01:04:18.059 --> 01:04:20.699
It's a normal regular episode done really well.

1429
01:04:20.760 --> 01:04:21.420
Yeah.

1430
01:04:21.420 --> 01:04:23.519
I really want science able to come back.

1431
01:04:23.579 --> 01:04:26.159
They make such a great team with the doctor and Clara.

1432
01:04:26.219 --> 01:04:29.579
It's almost like we're going to jettison the Paternoster gang and

1433
01:04:29.579 --> 01:04:32.280
I could see them coming back, but they don't, of course.

1434
01:04:32.340 --> 01:04:33.239
Well, I am married to him.

1435
01:04:33.300 --> 01:04:33.840
I'll ask him.

1436
01:04:33.900 --> 01:04:34.920
Thank you.

1437
01:04:34.980 --> 01:04:35.699
All right.

1438
01:04:35.760 --> 01:04:38.639
Jenny, Jenny Laird Award nominations now for the season.

1439
01:04:38.699 --> 01:04:44.460
Yes, I am giving a Jenny Laird award to Stephen Moffat for asking

1440
01:04:44.460 --> 01:04:48.300
Gareth Roberts to come back and do the same thing for the 3rd

1441
01:04:48.300 --> 01:04:48.659
time.

1442
01:04:48.719 --> 01:04:51.119
I think that the lodger is brilliant.

1443
01:04:51.179 --> 01:04:54.420
I think that closing time is good, but there's a very clear

1444
01:04:54.420 --> 01:04:59.519
trajectory outlined by both of them and when we hit the caretaker

1445
01:04:59.519 --> 01:05:04.199
the writer's own personality, I think, bleeds through a little bit

1446
01:05:04.199 --> 01:05:06.239
too much and it just ends up being horrible.

1447
01:05:06.599 --> 01:05:12.480
I'll go with the whole PE storyline, which I think is just, it

1448
01:05:12.480 --> 01:05:15.900
could have been much subtler, but it's just sledgehammered in and

1449
01:05:15.900 --> 01:05:17.219
it just really doesn't work.

1450
01:05:17.280 --> 01:05:22.260
And I also will go to the performance of Hermione Norris in Kill

1451
01:05:22.260 --> 01:05:24.300
the Moon that just kills that episode for me.

1452
01:05:24.360 --> 01:05:25.260
Oh yeah.

1453
01:05:25.320 --> 01:05:27.420
She's as good as that woman in 42.

1454
01:05:27.599 --> 01:05:29.219
I think she's better than that.

1455
01:05:29.280 --> 01:05:29.820
Yeah.

1456
01:05:29.820 --> 01:05:34.079
Captain blonde hair, red lipstick from Nightmare and Silver.

1457
01:05:34.139 --> 01:05:34.800
Yeah.

1458
01:05:35.340 --> 01:05:39.000
I would give my Jenny Lead award, I think, to whoever thought that

1459
01:05:39.000 --> 01:05:44.340
you would be able to mount overgrown London well in a Doctor Who

1460
01:05:44.340 --> 01:05:47.820
episode rather than just going into the New Forest and erecting

1461
01:05:47.820 --> 01:05:50.159
the base of Nelson's column and thinking that that was going to

1462
01:05:50.159 --> 01:05:50.519
look fine.

1463
01:05:51.840 --> 01:05:55.559
I'll just expand on Todd's award there.

1464
01:05:55.619 --> 01:05:56.460
I'd agree with that.

1465
01:05:56.519 --> 01:05:59.880
But if I can sort of expand it, not just the sort of the PE thing

1466
01:05:59.880 --> 01:06:03.179
the way Capaldi treats Danny.

1467
01:06:03.239 --> 01:06:06.659
It's just also the whole thing that what are they really trying to

1468
01:06:06.659 --> 01:06:08.280
do here with the military thing?

1469
01:06:08.340 --> 01:06:12.360
I know Doctor Who's always had a certain anti-establishment thing

1470
01:06:12.360 --> 01:06:15.000
which, you know, was particularly prevalent in the Pertwhe era.

1471
01:06:15.119 --> 01:06:19.559
You know, the pert, we always made fun and teased the brigadier

1472
01:06:19.559 --> 01:06:22.679
and basically our typical of the military mind and all that sort

1473
01:06:22.679 --> 01:06:23.099
of stuff.

1474
01:06:23.159 --> 01:06:25.980
And, you know, all the military...

1475
01:06:25.980 --> 01:06:28.440
But was also extremely happy when the brigadier would show up and

1476
01:06:28.440 --> 01:06:29.880
shoot an Ogron for him.

1477
01:06:29.940 --> 01:06:31.800
For example, yes, exactly.

1478
01:06:31.860 --> 01:06:36.119
And I think they've allowed going kind of back to Nathan to what

1479
01:06:36.119 --> 01:06:37.860
you sort of are mentioning about Gareth Roberts.

1480
01:06:37.920 --> 01:06:42.059
I think this is actually something where I think the writers

1481
01:06:42.059 --> 01:06:47.039
perhaps their prejudices are showing in the scripts in a way that

1482
01:06:47.039 --> 01:06:51.599
I think is not properly thought through, if you know what I mean.

1483
01:06:51.659 --> 01:06:55.019
Like it's kind of I can I can see what they were trying to do, but

1484
01:06:55.019 --> 01:06:59.159
it's so mishandled that it's a puzzling creative choice.

1485
01:06:59.219 --> 01:07:04.500
Except, though, that in death in heaven, we come down on the side

1486
01:07:04.500 --> 01:07:08.940
of the doctor being wrong about that all the way through.

1487
01:07:09.000 --> 01:07:13.260
And Danny demonstrates that the doctor has been wrong to have this

1488
01:07:13.260 --> 01:07:14.579
attitude to soldiers.

1489
01:07:14.639 --> 01:07:18.059
And then I actually, in our death in heaven episode, have things

1490
01:07:18.059 --> 01:07:20.400
to say about that as a creative choice.

1491
01:07:20.460 --> 01:07:24.059
I don't know if that payoff is worth it because then you've got an

1492
01:07:24.059 --> 01:07:28.619
entire season with the doctor dissing daddy, which is just a tone

1493
01:07:28.619 --> 01:07:32.159
deaf in so many weird ways for a payoff that's not really worth

1494
01:07:32.159 --> 01:07:32.340
it.

1495
01:07:32.400 --> 01:07:37.380
Yeah, yeah. that's right Yeah, it's so tied up in that whole, the

1496
01:07:37.380 --> 01:07:41.519
Iraq and Afghanistan thing, that it's, which, as I think I said in

1497
01:07:41.519 --> 01:07:44.639
the, in the Darkwater episode, the Doctor Who is not the Forum to

1498
01:07:44.639 --> 01:07:49.980
deal with these issues, head on, you do that through allegory and

1499
01:07:49.980 --> 01:07:52.860
and, and, and, all that sort of stuff.

1500
01:07:52.920 --> 01:07:53.760
Yeah, the Savine.

1501
01:07:53.820 --> 01:07:56.699
But yeah, yeah, yeah, the Slovene, et cetera.

1502
01:07:56.820 --> 01:07:59.699
You know, you don't do it sort of front on, echoing what Peter

1503
01:07:59.699 --> 01:08:00.000
said.

1504
01:08:00.059 --> 01:08:02.400
I think the payoff, it may be a payoff.

1505
01:08:02.460 --> 01:08:04.260
There may be a thing that the doctor comes down and says, okay

1506
01:08:04.260 --> 01:08:06.719
well, yes, you're right. the military have their uses.

1507
01:08:06.780 --> 01:08:10.199
But it's just, it's just wrong for it to be constantly through the

1508
01:08:10.199 --> 01:08:13.199
season all the time, week in week, especially because most members

1509
01:08:13.199 --> 01:08:15.719
of the general audience are not going to be watching every

1510
01:08:15.719 --> 01:08:16.319
episode.

1511
01:08:16.380 --> 01:08:18.659
And it's like the reaction that we had to Vietnam.

1512
01:08:18.720 --> 01:08:21.479
Like, you know, all the soldiers came back from Vietnam, in

1513
01:08:21.479 --> 01:08:25.739
America and Australia, and public attitudes turned against the

1514
01:08:25.739 --> 01:08:26.640
war.

1515
01:08:26.699 --> 01:08:31.619
And so for a while, Vietnam veterans were appallingly treated.

1516
01:08:31.680 --> 01:08:33.539
Now, I don't know whether that's really happened.

1517
01:08:33.600 --> 01:08:36.239
I don't get the sense, though, that that's happened with Iraq and

1518
01:08:36.239 --> 01:08:38.760
Afghanistan veterans, but it certainly happened with Vietnam

1519
01:08:38.760 --> 01:08:39.239
veterans.

1520
01:08:39.300 --> 01:08:41.579
And then we learned in the 80s that that was a terrible way to

1521
01:08:41.579 --> 01:08:45.119
treat the soldiers who had gone there, the men and women who'd

1522
01:08:45.119 --> 01:08:48.479
served in these places, because it wasn't their fault that they

1523
01:08:48.479 --> 01:08:49.020
were sent there.

1524
01:08:49.079 --> 01:08:53.640
And I think that's where that's where the fundamental error is

1525
01:08:53.640 --> 01:08:54.000
made.

1526
01:08:54.060 --> 01:08:58.439
And that also comes down to, you know, Danny having killed that

1527
01:08:58.439 --> 01:09:02.159
child we find out about in dark water.

1528
01:09:02.220 --> 01:09:07.140
It's just a bit too close to reality.

1529
01:09:07.199 --> 01:09:11.640
I do find it a bit tasteless, the entire approach taken there.

1530
01:09:11.699 --> 01:09:14.640
And it kind of, even though, even though they're not exactly the

1531
01:09:14.640 --> 01:09:15.060
same thing.

1532
01:09:15.119 --> 01:09:18.479
Once you reach the end of the season, you have the cyber brigadier

1533
01:09:18.479 --> 01:09:21.000
for good or for bad, if people think that's a good idea or a bad

1534
01:09:21.000 --> 01:09:21.359
idea.

1535
01:09:21.420 --> 01:09:22.619
I don't think it's a good idea.

1536
01:09:22.680 --> 01:09:23.579
It's also tasteless.

1537
01:09:23.699 --> 01:09:24.600
Yeah, yeah.

1538
01:09:24.659 --> 01:09:25.739
I think that's the problem.

1539
01:09:25.800 --> 01:09:28.020
And it's the brigadier, the brigadier thing is tasty.

1540
01:09:28.079 --> 01:09:30.479
In fact, maybe the whole thing is then summarised by, I think, the

1541
01:09:30.479 --> 01:09:32.520
most puzzling creative choice is to have the brigadier come back

1542
01:09:32.520 --> 01:09:37.439
as a sideman. something that I struggle to get over and I'm very

1543
01:09:37.439 --> 01:09:38.100
unhappy about.

1544
01:09:38.159 --> 01:09:40.260
It's so bafflingly weird, isn't it?

1545
01:09:40.319 --> 01:09:43.260
Because the story has literally everyone who's died, comes back as

1546
01:09:43.260 --> 01:09:47.699
a cyberman and of course it's Doctor Who say that will never be

1547
01:09:47.699 --> 01:09:51.659
mentioned again, even though it is sort of sort of giant and

1548
01:09:51.659 --> 01:09:52.979
massive and stuff.

1549
01:09:53.399 --> 01:09:57.720
And I don't want Doctor Who to rein it back in because it's doing

1550
01:09:57.720 --> 01:10:02.039
something that's too big and too ridiculous, particularly since

1551
01:10:02.039 --> 01:10:05.100
you know, there were a lot of sleepy English villagers invaded by

1552
01:10:05.100 --> 01:10:08.880
aliens in a way that had no impact on anyone more than kind of 5

1553
01:10:08.880 --> 01:10:10.020
miles away.

1554
01:10:10.079 --> 01:10:13.800
So it's nice to see Doctor Who attempt to be, you know.

1555
01:10:13.859 --> 01:10:16.199
I don't want to say don't go big.

1556
01:10:16.380 --> 01:10:19.020
Yes, I will always like trying.

1557
01:10:19.140 --> 01:10:20.760
I will always like, let's have an idea.

1558
01:10:20.819 --> 01:10:21.539
Let's go for it.

1559
01:10:21.600 --> 01:10:24.659
But I think I think the problem where with the showrunner model

1560
01:10:24.659 --> 01:10:28.199
where the effectively the producer and the writer, headwriter, are

1561
01:10:28.199 --> 01:10:33.060
the same person, is that you don't really have someone there with

1562
01:10:33.060 --> 01:10:36.479
the power to say, can we just think that through a little bit

1563
01:10:36.479 --> 01:10:37.560
before we?

1564
01:10:37.680 --> 01:10:38.640
Not a good idea.

1565
01:10:38.699 --> 01:10:39.779
Exactly.

1566
01:10:39.840 --> 01:10:42.960
It's basically that old JNT thing saying, not at 735.

1567
01:10:43.319 --> 01:10:43.859
Do you know what I mean?

1568
01:10:43.920 --> 01:10:48.600
It's someone's got to be there to say, oh, yes, absolutely.

1569
01:10:48.659 --> 01:10:50.939
Think big, do things you've never done before.

1570
01:10:51.000 --> 01:10:55.079
Let's explore the possible, but have just someone needs to say

1571
01:10:55.079 --> 01:10:57.479
every now and again say, just wait.

1572
01:10:57.539 --> 01:10:58.020
Stop.

1573
01:10:58.199 --> 01:11:01.079
Julie Gardner will be back quite soon.

1574
01:11:01.140 --> 01:11:02.579
It's going to be okay.

1575
01:11:02.640 --> 01:11:03.239
Okay.

1576
01:11:03.300 --> 01:11:04.800
I don't know whether she did that.

1577
01:11:04.859 --> 01:11:08.880
All right, our Bonnie Langford Award for Startling Discovery.

1578
01:11:08.939 --> 01:11:12.119
I'm going to go with Jamie Matheson, the writer of Mummy and

1579
01:11:12.119 --> 01:11:16.680
Flatline, who I think is brilliant. and Rachel Tellalay. who

1580
01:11:16.680 --> 01:11:20.159
directs the final 2 parter and she will do so for a few years to

1581
01:11:20.159 --> 01:11:20.460
come.

1582
01:11:20.520 --> 01:11:24.060
I think they're both great and the whole Clara having a

1583
01:11:24.060 --> 01:11:24.359
character.

1584
01:11:24.840 --> 01:11:27.239
I'm going to go for Courtney.

1585
01:11:27.359 --> 01:11:29.039
I think she's really terrific.

1586
01:11:29.100 --> 01:11:31.680
And more like that, please.

1587
01:11:31.739 --> 01:11:35.279
I'll go for Samuel Anderson because I think he's really good in

1588
01:11:35.279 --> 01:11:35.760
the role.

1589
01:11:35.819 --> 01:11:36.600
Yeah, hot.

1590
01:11:36.659 --> 01:11:37.319
Oh, good.

1591
01:11:37.439 --> 01:11:37.859
Yeah, good.

1592
01:11:38.640 --> 01:11:42.239
I'm going to go for Rigsey then because I think, like Courtney, I

1593
01:11:42.239 --> 01:11:46.680
think he feels an important and it's a shame that we only get to

1594
01:11:46.680 --> 01:11:47.220
see him once more.

1595
01:11:47.340 --> 01:11:47.819
Is that it?

1596
01:11:47.880 --> 01:11:48.720
Is it just the one small?

1597
01:11:48.779 --> 01:11:49.680
Yeah.

1598
01:11:49.739 --> 01:11:51.600
He would have been nice to appeared a couple more times.

1599
01:11:51.659 --> 01:11:52.800
Not too many, just a couple more.

1600
01:11:53.279 --> 01:11:55.619
I'm glad you mentioned Courtney.

1601
01:11:55.680 --> 01:11:58.260
She certainly the best of the children actors this year, and

1602
01:11:58.260 --> 01:11:59.699
that's all I'm going to say about that, people.

1603
01:11:59.880 --> 01:12:04.020
So...

1604
01:12:04.199 --> 01:12:06.420
That's okay.

1605
01:12:06.479 --> 01:12:08.880
Oh, Artie, but isn't he last year?

1606
01:12:08.939 --> 01:12:09.300
Yeah.

1607
01:12:09.300 --> 01:12:12.539
Yeah, no, I'm just, they managed to put most of them all into that

1608
01:12:12.539 --> 01:12:13.079
one episode.

1609
01:12:13.140 --> 01:12:15.000
So, you know, thank God.

1610
01:12:15.060 --> 01:12:18.840
All right, now, finally, series nine.

1611
01:12:18.899 --> 01:12:21.359
Looking forward looking to the future.

1612
01:12:21.420 --> 01:12:22.439
Where does it sit with you?

1613
01:12:22.500 --> 01:12:26.579
So, I'm merely a person here that was recording flights through

1614
01:12:26.579 --> 01:12:28.260
entirety when season 9 came out.

1615
01:12:28.319 --> 01:12:32.279
And so as a result, because we were doing the black and white era

1616
01:12:32.279 --> 01:12:36.479
and I was having to watch something like 30 episodes of Doctor Who

1617
01:12:36.479 --> 01:12:40.739
a month or whatever, I watched series 9 once.

1618
01:12:40.800 --> 01:12:43.979
Like you, Simon, I watched series 9 once, then I watched it when I

1619
01:12:43.979 --> 01:12:46.619
got the Blu-ray and then I've never really gone back to it.

1620
01:12:46.680 --> 01:12:53.279
I did once trying to do it again and didn't get past the, I was

1621
01:12:53.279 --> 01:12:56.399
going to say the magician's nephew, but I mean the magician's

1622
01:12:56.399 --> 01:12:57.659
apprentice.

1623
01:12:57.720 --> 01:13:00.479
And I actually enjoyed the magician's apprentice.

1624
01:13:00.539 --> 01:13:02.760
I think it's really good, but somehow I just found myself not

1625
01:13:02.760 --> 01:13:03.840
going any further.

1626
01:13:03.899 --> 01:13:08.579
So for me, this is the season of Doctor Who that I'm least

1627
01:13:08.579 --> 01:13:12.359
familiar with and I'm really looking forward to finding out what

1628
01:13:12.359 --> 01:13:13.260
the hell I think about it.

1629
01:13:13.319 --> 01:13:15.180
Yeah, so I would agree with that, Nathan.

1630
01:13:15.239 --> 01:13:16.199
I've only seen it once.

1631
01:13:16.260 --> 01:13:19.680
I think the takeaway was that it was startlingly dreary.

1632
01:13:20.039 --> 01:13:22.439
I want to know if I'm wrong in that.

1633
01:13:23.579 --> 01:13:25.680
Yeah, me too.

1634
01:13:25.739 --> 01:13:28.920
I remember as being dreary, not particularly good.

1635
01:13:28.979 --> 01:13:33.180
There are some great moments like, I think, and I can't, I get, I

1636
01:13:33.180 --> 01:13:35.640
get the titles around the wrong way, but heaven sent.

1637
01:13:37.560 --> 01:13:39.960
Heaven's sense is the one.

1638
01:13:40.020 --> 01:13:44.100
Heaven Sense is the 1st one where he's just Capaldi. which is, I

1639
01:13:44.100 --> 01:13:48.420
think, one of the best episodes ever. absolutely 100%.

1640
01:13:48.479 --> 01:13:53.100
I like the opening to part and more for Missy and particularly her

1641
01:13:53.100 --> 01:13:56.520
relationship with Clara, which I think is the perfect echo of the

1642
01:13:56.520 --> 01:13:59.819
frontier and space relationship with Delgado and Katie with

1643
01:13:59.819 --> 01:14:02.939
believe it or not, Miss Grant, I've come to take you away from all

1644
01:14:02.939 --> 01:14:03.060
this.

1645
01:14:03.119 --> 01:14:06.060
And there's just so many moments like that. is so great.

1646
01:14:06.119 --> 01:14:08.460
But as a whole, I'm going to push Joe into a pit.

1647
01:14:10.020 --> 01:14:10.800
No, I know.

1648
01:14:10.800 --> 01:14:12.119
But Jet Diggy is so funny.

1649
01:14:12.119 --> 01:14:12.840
That is so funny.

1650
01:14:12.840 --> 01:14:15.359
To test how deep it was, right?

1651
01:14:15.420 --> 01:14:16.800
Yes, exactly.

1652
01:14:16.859 --> 01:14:23.039
But I do, that's a highlight, but as a whole, I'm remembering that

1653
01:14:23.039 --> 01:14:26.699
this is where I really start to lose interest in the series and I

1654
01:14:26.699 --> 01:14:30.060
start to look at my watch and go, God, how much more of this

1655
01:14:30.060 --> 01:14:32.880
episode is there, with a few exceptions, as I've mentioned.

1656
01:14:32.939 --> 01:14:35.819
And I'm curious to know whether I'll have the same reaction when I

1657
01:14:35.819 --> 01:14:36.600
watch it through again.

1658
01:14:36.659 --> 01:14:37.920
I worry that I will.

1659
01:14:38.279 --> 01:14:41.340
Yes, it feels like a series, I think.

1660
01:14:41.399 --> 01:14:43.979
And again, I may be proved wrong, that is marking time.

1661
01:14:44.039 --> 01:14:47.220
It's, it's a series that has reached, it's, the show has reached

1662
01:14:47.220 --> 01:14:49.859
its ninth season and you think, where are you going with this?

1663
01:14:49.920 --> 01:14:53.340
It feels like it doesn't have proper forward momentum, but we'll

1664
01:14:53.340 --> 01:14:53.520
see.

1665
01:14:53.579 --> 01:14:57.659
And I guess for me, it's, has Clara stayed too long?

1666
01:14:57.720 --> 01:14:59.880
Do all these two-parters work.

1667
01:14:59.939 --> 01:15:03.600
I adore the flood 2 parter, and I really like the missy stuff in

1668
01:15:03.600 --> 01:15:08.640
the Dalek 2 parter, and obviously heaven sent, and the high drama

1669
01:15:08.640 --> 01:15:12.899
of sleep no more, and the raven, but the other episodes, we'll

1670
01:15:12.899 --> 01:15:13.020
see.

1671
01:15:37.079 --> 01:15:39.720
Well, B, sir, that's all we have time for for now.

1672
01:15:39.840 --> 01:15:43.500
We'll be back in a few weeks to finally put some important arcs to

1673
01:15:43.500 --> 01:15:45.359
bed in last Christmas.

1674
01:15:45.840 --> 01:15:49.439
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1675
01:15:49.439 --> 01:15:52.680
and you can keep up with us on our website, FlightthroughEntirety

1676
01:15:51.180 --> 01:15:55.140
com, where you'll find links to our accounts on Facebook, Twitter

1677
01:15:55.140 --> 01:15:59.100
and Mastodon, as well as links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger

1678
01:15:59.100 --> 01:16:03.479
Jody Interterra, maximum power, and untitled Star Trek project.

1679
01:16:03.539 --> 01:16:07.260
Until next time, remember you can't really tell if something's an

1680
01:16:07.260 --> 01:16:08.819
addiction till you try and give it up.

1681
01:16:08.880 --> 01:16:12.960
Incidentally, stay tuned for news about our 2 new Doctor Who

1682
01:16:12.960 --> 01:16:15.960
projects later this year and in early 2024.

1683
01:16:16.199 --> 01:16:18.600
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1684
01:16:18.659 --> 01:16:20.039
See you soon.

1685
01:16:20.100 --> 01:16:21.180
Good night.

1686
01:16:21.239 --> 01:16:21.659
Bye bye.

1687
01:16:28.140 --> 01:16:31.859
That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Todd Bealby, Nathan

1688
01:16:31.859 --> 01:16:33.840
Bottomley, Peter Griffith, and Simon Moore.

1689
01:16:33.899 --> 01:16:36.000
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1690
01:16:36.060 --> 01:16:39.420
This episode, New Life Crisis, was recorded on the 18th of June

1691
01:16:39.420 --> 01:16:41.819
2023 and released on the 9th of July.

1692
01:16:43.140 --> 01:16:46.680
Once again, thank you to everyone who's listened to our nonsense

1693
01:16:46.680 --> 01:16:49.439
so far this year, and particular thanks to those of you who've

1694
01:16:49.439 --> 01:16:50.520
contacted us online.

1695
01:16:50.579 --> 01:16:54.180
We'll be back with the Christmas special on the 25th of July and

1696
01:16:54.180 --> 01:16:56.699
our series 9 coverage. happen later in the year.

1697
01:16:56.760 --> 01:16:58.260
We'll see you then.

1698
01:17:02.760 --> 01:17:05.220
So we did last Christmas last night.

1699
01:17:05.640 --> 01:17:11.699
And we observed that the arc doesn't really make any sense without

1700
01:17:11.699 --> 01:17:15.239
last Christmas, but this is actually going out before last

1701
01:17:15.239 --> 01:17:15.960
Christmas.

1702
01:17:16.140 --> 01:17:18.779
Last Christmas, it's not part of this retrospective.

1703
01:17:18.779 --> 01:17:19.079
Yep.

1704
01:17:19.199 --> 01:17:22.319
But we will because I haven't talked about that.

1705
01:17:22.380 --> 01:17:25.319
That's the one I haven't watched yet, so that'll work.

1706
01:17:25.380 --> 01:17:26.520
Yeah, yeah.

1707
01:17:26.579 --> 01:17:27.119
No that's fine.

1708
01:17:27.180 --> 01:17:30.840
So I can't talk about the season cohesively without...

1709
01:17:30.899 --> 01:17:31.260
Yeah, yeah.

1710
01:17:31.319 --> 01:17:34.680
I mean, we'll say that they, you know, yeah, all this stuff. fixes

1711
01:17:34.680 --> 01:17:35.039
itself.

1712
01:17:35.100 --> 01:17:39.359
All right, I have a very long sentence, which should not be

1713
01:17:39.359 --> 01:17:42.899
delivered without proper medical jaw and lung supervision.

1714
01:17:43.439 --> 01:17:45.060
Here goes.

1715
01:17:45.119 --> 01:17:48.779
Oh, Nathan Todd, Peter.

1716
01:17:48.840 --> 01:17:50.819
And I'll try and leave a gap this time.

1717
01:17:52.500 --> 01:17:54.899
Yes, you will to go first.

1718
01:17:54.960 --> 01:17:57.600
Yeah, no, you can tell me to go first.

1719
01:17:57.659 --> 01:17:58.739
You go before me time.

1720
01:17:58.800 --> 01:18:00.479
No, no, no.

1721
01:18:00.479 --> 01:18:02.579
The remote the remote voice should be last.

1722
01:18:02.579 --> 01:18:03.239
It doesn't matter.

1723
01:18:03.300 --> 01:18:04.319
You're on different tracks.

1724
01:18:04.439 --> 01:18:05.579
You're on different tracks.

1725
01:18:05.640 --> 01:18:08.819
You can say it simultaneously and I'll be able to fix it.

1726
01:18:08.939 --> 01:18:12.960
But you can still get angry if you feel like it. do that.

1727
01:18:13.680 --> 01:18:15.060
Okay.

1728
01:18:16.199 --> 01:18:20.316
Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight through entirety.