WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 14:05:54

1
00:00:40.380 --> 00:00:44.460
Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety

2
00:00:44.460 --> 00:00:48.179
the only Doctor Who podcast that never escaped the Matrix back in

3
00:00:48.179 --> 00:00:49.500
December 1986.

4
00:00:50.039 --> 00:00:51.119
I'm Nathan.

5
00:00:51.179 --> 00:00:52.439
I'm Brendan.

6
00:00:52.500 --> 00:00:53.880
I'm Max.

7
00:00:53.939 --> 00:00:54.600
I'm Peter.

8
00:00:54.659 --> 00:00:56.579
Well, the moon's an egg.

9
00:00:56.640 --> 00:01:00.539
The word for world is forest, and mere weeks ago, our sadly Miss

10
00:01:00.539 --> 00:01:04.560
Great Aunt Dulcie was advancing on us menacingly with a cyber gun

11
00:01:04.560 --> 00:01:06.780
but is Santa really real now?

12
00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:10.379
Let's find out, as we discuss, last Christmas.

13
00:01:28.500 --> 00:01:33.239
We talked a little bit, I think, last time about Santa's magical

14
00:01:33.239 --> 00:01:38.519
powers to intervene in the closing credits, and I guess this

15
00:01:38.519 --> 00:01:44.400
episode has, unlike most Christmas specials, a proper job to do in

16
00:01:44.400 --> 00:01:45.780
the story of the program.

17
00:01:46.319 --> 00:01:50.280
Well, I think it's interesting because it's the 1st instance of

18
00:01:50.280 --> 00:01:54.420
Christmas special being sort of a denouement to a season in a way

19
00:01:54.420 --> 00:01:57.480
obviously because of its broadcast, like it's right after series

20
00:01:57.480 --> 00:01:58.079
eight.

21
00:01:58.140 --> 00:01:59.760
It's only like a few weeks after.

22
00:01:59.819 --> 00:02:03.659
And I think it's interesting because of the way that death in

23
00:02:03.659 --> 00:02:07.439
heaven ends and it ends in this quite downbeat fashion.

24
00:02:07.500 --> 00:02:10.319
I mean, obviously we're used to Russell T. Davis cliffhanger

25
00:02:10.319 --> 00:02:14.159
endings that kind of take away some of the emotional heft that

26
00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:14.879
you're left with.

27
00:02:14.939 --> 00:02:17.759
But I think in series 8, you're sort of really sitting with that

28
00:02:17.759 --> 00:02:18.539
at the end.

29
00:02:18.599 --> 00:02:22.379
As we come into last Christmas, there is this sense that this

30
00:02:22.379 --> 00:02:25.439
feels like kind of the proper ending to series 8 in a certain

31
00:02:25.439 --> 00:02:25.680
way.

32
00:02:25.740 --> 00:02:26.099
Yeah.

33
00:02:26.159 --> 00:02:29.520
And it does feel of a piece with series 8 because it has those

34
00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:31.800
same dark qualities that the series did.

35
00:02:31.860 --> 00:02:34.259
I don't think we've seen a Christmas special this dark before.

36
00:02:34.319 --> 00:02:34.979
Yeah.

37
00:02:34.979 --> 00:02:38.939
Yeah, it really struck me that it is kind of a remake of alien.

38
00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:42.000
I mean, it's even in the in dialogue.

39
00:02:42.659 --> 00:02:46.199
Have we ever had an instance where someone has written down their

40
00:02:46.199 --> 00:02:48.900
list of homages and then shown it to us on speaker.

41
00:02:50.340 --> 00:02:52.139
Forgive day.

42
00:02:53.219 --> 00:02:55.680
So I like dad coming to visit.

43
00:02:55.740 --> 00:02:56.939
Is that another sly reference?

44
00:02:57.000 --> 00:02:58.199
Capaldi's age.

45
00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:01.919
Oh yeah, because he's your space dad.

46
00:03:03.120 --> 00:03:08.400
I do love how this wears its movie influences on its sleeve

47
00:03:08.400 --> 00:03:10.560
because, you know, we had that with Voyage of the Dan, which is

48
00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:16.620
very clearly a night to remember and the Poseidon adventure and

49
00:03:16.620 --> 00:03:18.060
all these kind of films.

50
00:03:18.120 --> 00:03:25.080
And I think, though, with Alien, if you're going to do that with a

51
00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:27.719
science fiction thing, there is a greater chance that the people

52
00:03:27.719 --> 00:03:31.439
at home have seen it and that someone has already said, oh, it's

53
00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:32.460
kind of like a face hugger.

54
00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:36.719
But I mean, Moffatt does 2 things, doesn't he?

55
00:03:36.780 --> 00:03:40.620
He gets a really brilliant line out of it with Capaldi saying that

56
00:03:40.620 --> 00:03:43.800
we're racist and that's why aliens keep invading us all the time.

57
00:03:44.039 --> 00:03:48.659
But he also kind of gets to demonstrate why Doctor Who is better

58
00:03:48.659 --> 00:03:53.580
than that kind of science fiction because these aren't just sort

59
00:03:53.580 --> 00:03:56.159
of monsters that lay eggs in your stomach or anything like that.

60
00:03:56.219 --> 00:03:58.919
They're monsters that keep you in a dream state.

61
00:03:58.979 --> 00:04:03.719
And so they actually have a direct effect on how the narrative

62
00:04:03.719 --> 00:04:07.860
goes because we're being told this whole thing inside the dreams

63
00:04:07.860 --> 00:04:12.659
and it's a dream state that's being created by the dream crabs.

64
00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:17.339
So in a way, you know, Moffat has created a conceptual monster

65
00:04:17.339 --> 00:04:21.240
that's a little bit more interesting than what a normal science

66
00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:22.259
fiction show would do.

67
00:04:22.319 --> 00:04:23.819
Never done that before, has it?

68
00:04:23.879 --> 00:04:24.660
No, that's right.

69
00:04:24.779 --> 00:04:27.360
They're all just men in rubber suits.

70
00:04:27.779 --> 00:04:29.879
It's true, isn't it?

71
00:04:29.939 --> 00:04:33.060
Because I think there's an explicit parallel being set up between

72
00:04:33.060 --> 00:04:36.899
having Santa, who is another kind of fantastic hero, like the

73
00:04:36.899 --> 00:04:40.139
doctor is, and the dream crabs, which just kind of sit there

74
00:04:40.139 --> 00:04:42.540
sponging off imagination rubbed and providing it.

75
00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:45.180
And so I wondered if they were an analogue for us at home on

76
00:04:45.180 --> 00:04:45.959
Christmas.

77
00:04:47.939 --> 00:04:51.600
Well, it's nice as well because there is like, this isn't

78
00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:56.160
necessarily, I think, as explicit as alien or inception, but

79
00:04:56.160 --> 00:04:58.800
there's a lovely like parallel with the dream crabs to like the

80
00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:02.279
nightmare before Christmas and, you know, like it sort of feels

81
00:05:02.279 --> 00:05:03.420
quite nice.

82
00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:06.360
It feels like just it makes sense that these are creatures that

83
00:05:06.360 --> 00:05:09.899
live off dreams and that kind of stuff, particularly combined with

84
00:05:09.899 --> 00:05:10.740
this Christmas setting.

85
00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:13.800
And I think the effect of that is that the whole thing feels

86
00:05:13.800 --> 00:05:15.180
really Christmassy.

87
00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:17.279
I mean, obviously we're at the we're at the North Pole.

88
00:05:17.339 --> 00:05:18.000
South Pole?

89
00:05:18.060 --> 00:05:19.560
No, we are at the North Pole, yeah.

90
00:05:19.620 --> 00:05:22.139
And obviously we've got some...

91
00:05:22.319 --> 00:05:25.500
It'll take another 3 years to get to the south.

92
00:05:26.939 --> 00:05:31.139
But like, I think it all contributes to a mood that is really

93
00:05:31.139 --> 00:05:34.139
evocative, which is, I think, why it works.

94
00:05:34.199 --> 00:05:37.319
A lot of why it works as well as it does, is that it all feels

95
00:05:37.319 --> 00:05:42.480
just like, even with its sort of madcap, different influences.

96
00:05:42.540 --> 00:05:44.579
Like it feels quite cohesive, I think.

97
00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:45.180
Yeah.

98
00:05:45.240 --> 00:05:48.300
Yeah, and it is Christmassy in a way that the others haven't

99
00:05:48.300 --> 00:05:48.600
been.

100
00:05:48.660 --> 00:05:51.779
I mean, this is his 5th Christmas special.

101
00:05:51.779 --> 00:05:54.899
And it's the 10th Christmas special, right?

102
00:05:54.959 --> 00:06:00.300
And, you know, there will come a time where the showrunner says

103
00:06:00.300 --> 00:06:03.480
actually, we've got no ideas left for Christmas and we can't

104
00:06:03.480 --> 00:06:05.160
really be doing that anymore.

105
00:06:05.220 --> 00:06:07.920
But I think this.

106
00:06:07.980 --> 00:06:12.540
The 10th one ever is perhaps the most Christmassy of them all.

107
00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:18.000
And I think mostly it's because of Santa.

108
00:06:18.060 --> 00:06:24.660
So there's a real attempt because this episode has to rehabilitate

109
00:06:24.660 --> 00:06:29.040
the doctor and it kind of has to solve the problems left in

110
00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:31.259
Clara's life by series 8.

111
00:06:31.319 --> 00:06:36.839
And there's the scene at the end where the doctor gets to ride a

112
00:06:36.839 --> 00:06:39.779
sleigh in his 1st Christmas special.

113
00:06:39.779 --> 00:06:43.620
And Matt Smith got to do that in his 1st Christmas special.

114
00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:48.300
But Matt Smith sleigh was drawn by a shark, a flying shark, which

115
00:06:48.300 --> 00:06:51.779
that's so fantastic and maybe one of the best things ever.

116
00:06:51.839 --> 00:06:54.600
But this is actually Santa Slay.

117
00:06:54.660 --> 00:06:59.040
Like this is a much Christmassier version of Matt Smith's 1st

118
00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:00.360
Christmas special.

119
00:07:00.420 --> 00:07:03.480
Like, this is as Christmas as I think it's possible to get.

120
00:07:03.540 --> 00:07:06.959
There's also like there's something about Peter Capoldi's doctor

121
00:07:06.959 --> 00:07:08.399
as well that works at Christmas.

122
00:07:08.459 --> 00:07:11.879
Like, it's just, it's the, when Shona calls him the skeleton man.

123
00:07:11.939 --> 00:07:15.540
Like, like, there's, like, something about...

124
00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:17.100
Yeah, him and the hoodie.

125
00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:18.959
I just I love the hoodie as well, by the way.

126
00:07:19.019 --> 00:07:20.519
I'm not sure if this is the 1st hoodie.

127
00:07:20.579 --> 00:07:21.959
Yeah, it might be.

128
00:07:21.959 --> 00:07:22.860
Poodie combo.

129
00:07:22.920 --> 00:07:25.379
I was obsessed with Peter Capoli's outfit variation.

130
00:07:25.620 --> 00:07:29.879
But there's yeah, there's something about him and being a little

131
00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:31.920
grouchier, like a little surlier.

132
00:07:31.980 --> 00:07:35.279
There's something that works with the sort of, you know, the grump

133
00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:37.139
at Christmas just works really well.

134
00:07:37.199 --> 00:07:38.399
Ghost of Christmas presents.

135
00:07:38.459 --> 00:07:42.060
Yeah, I mean, he is having a ball at the end of it.

136
00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:46.680
He's having a really kind of uncomplicatedly childlike moment of

137
00:07:46.680 --> 00:07:50.100
joy after being a grumpy bastard all the way through.

138
00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:53.879
And so that is every Christmas TV show.

139
00:07:53.939 --> 00:07:55.319
Every special has that.

140
00:07:55.379 --> 00:07:57.180
So he's kind of built for that, I think.

141
00:07:57.240 --> 00:07:57.899
Yeah.

142
00:07:57.959 --> 00:08:02.939
And, you know, his conversation with Santa about riding the sleigh

143
00:08:02.939 --> 00:08:07.920
is that universal experience of being an adult but also wanting to

144
00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:08.279
have fun.

145
00:08:08.339 --> 00:08:11.220
It's like Santa says, do you want to ride this layer?

146
00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:14.339
The doctor's like, you're either representing my dying brain or my

147
00:08:14.339 --> 00:08:15.480
recovering brain.

148
00:08:15.540 --> 00:08:16.139
You're not real.

149
00:08:16.199 --> 00:08:18.240
And he's like, yeah, but do you want to do it anyway?

150
00:08:19.500 --> 00:08:26.040
And that allows him to have, I think, his 1st unguarded moment of

151
00:08:26.040 --> 00:08:26.519
happiness.

152
00:08:26.519 --> 00:08:29.819
And because Capaldi's such an amazing actor.

153
00:08:29.939 --> 00:08:33.720
It's when he says yippee IA that he sort of catches himself and

154
00:08:33.720 --> 00:08:37.440
realises, oh my god, I'm like, I'm, as you say, it's

155
00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:38.519
uncomplicated.

156
00:08:38.580 --> 00:08:41.340
There's no bravado, there's no pretence.

157
00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:45.600
Like, say, there is with Robin Hood back in Robot of Sherwood

158
00:08:45.600 --> 00:08:47.639
where he does have a few moments where he lets his guard down and

159
00:08:47.639 --> 00:08:48.720
immediately catches himself.

160
00:08:48.899 --> 00:08:53.460
He actually allows himself to experience the joy fully.

161
00:08:53.519 --> 00:08:59.220
And it's the beginning of turning the character into something

162
00:08:59.220 --> 00:09:01.559
more layered than he has been.

163
00:09:01.620 --> 00:09:05.399
Well, we said on Christmas Carol, which you're on, Max.

164
00:09:05.460 --> 00:09:08.940
It's amazing. back here together, that that was the 1st time that

165
00:09:08.940 --> 00:09:13.019
Matt Smith had seen his own performance go out and had known what

166
00:09:13.019 --> 00:09:15.240
the reception was and had kind of seen it in totality.

167
00:09:15.299 --> 00:09:17.159
He came back with a really confident performance.

168
00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:20.759
I think this is the 1st time that Capaldi's doctor is fully

169
00:09:20.759 --> 00:09:21.059
formed.

170
00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:22.980
They've kind of shorn off rough edges.

171
00:09:23.039 --> 00:09:25.379
He has seen himself that maybe it could do with a little bit of

172
00:09:25.379 --> 00:09:25.860
warming up.

173
00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:27.840
And so it's just here where he hits his stride, I think.

174
00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:30.960
That's what I was struck with watching it most recently, was just

175
00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:34.860
how this is where it starts to feel effortless, where you get that

176
00:09:34.860 --> 00:09:38.279
impression of Capaldi is the doctor, where it just feels like he's

177
00:09:38.279 --> 00:09:42.000
become him, like he, like there, it just, just seems to come out

178
00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:43.259
of him so naturally.

179
00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:47.220
And I think that is the 1st time that you really see, just in, in

180
00:09:47.220 --> 00:09:49.740
kind of that projection of warmth that you get actually the whole

181
00:09:49.740 --> 00:09:51.899
time, which, and it's there in series eight.

182
00:09:51.960 --> 00:09:56.519
It is there, but it's like how evidently warm he is with Clara, but

183
00:09:56.519 --> 00:10:00.299
then also he's starting to be warmer around supporting characters

184
00:10:00.299 --> 00:10:01.320
in the story as well.

185
00:10:01.379 --> 00:10:04.559
Like even though he makes that glib joke when he comes back in and

186
00:10:04.559 --> 00:10:06.899
said, sorry, are these all deleted all that?

187
00:10:06.960 --> 00:10:07.679
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

188
00:10:08.279 --> 00:10:12.419
Yeah, I was going to point that out too, because there is a note

189
00:10:12.419 --> 00:10:17.159
of regret in his voice that like, oh, I'm so sorry, I've trodden

190
00:10:17.159 --> 00:10:18.120
on your begonias.

191
00:10:18.179 --> 00:10:20.700
You know, it's kind of like he's kind of like, actually, that's

192
00:10:20.700 --> 00:10:22.200
probably, yeah, sorry.

193
00:10:22.259 --> 00:10:23.279
Anyway.

194
00:10:25.259 --> 00:10:29.940
I found myself really a bit baffled by death in heaven and

195
00:10:29.940 --> 00:10:34.500
concluding that it doesn't work as the end to an arc.

196
00:10:34.559 --> 00:10:37.799
But obviously that's wrong. isn't it?

197
00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:40.259
Because that was never intended to be the end of an arc.

198
00:10:40.259 --> 00:10:45.179
And the end of the arc is here, and we end up at the end of this

199
00:10:45.179 --> 00:10:49.320
episode, in the same place that we ended Matt Smith's 1st season

200
00:10:49.320 --> 00:10:50.100
as well.

201
00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:55.919
So our doctor is back in a way I think maybe Stephen B was hoping

202
00:10:55.919 --> 00:10:57.059
for in flatline.

203
00:10:57.120 --> 00:11:01.500
I think here, absolutely, undoubtedly we have the doctor back.

204
00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:07.860
And I think we also, in Capaldi's other 2 Christmas specials, that

205
00:11:07.860 --> 00:11:10.980
close series, The Husbands of River Song, and Twice Upon a Time

206
00:11:10.980 --> 00:11:16.679
both work to address the fallout of some really quite horrific

207
00:11:16.679 --> 00:11:19.740
events that happen in the respective season finale.

208
00:11:19.799 --> 00:11:24.120
Dr. Mysterio obviously is an exception because it's one of those

209
00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:26.940
years where the doctor decides not to do anything that year, except

210
00:11:26.940 --> 00:11:31.379
for, you know, leave some school children in deadly danger after

211
00:11:31.379 --> 00:11:32.580
one of them gets dismembered.

212
00:11:32.820 --> 00:11:34.980
God, class is weird.

213
00:11:45.419 --> 00:11:48.899
I love that we get past that point where they acknowledge that

214
00:11:48.899 --> 00:11:51.600
they lie to each other within the 1st 10, 15 minutes.

215
00:11:51.659 --> 00:11:54.720
Like it's not, we don't prolong it for any longer than it needs to

216
00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:55.259
be like that.

217
00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:58.500
It's almost instantly addressed as soon as they're in peril.

218
00:11:58.500 --> 00:12:01.559
And it's obviously a way of getting out of that peril to some

219
00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:02.279
extent as well.

220
00:12:02.340 --> 00:12:05.940
The simplicity of that exchange where basically they both just

221
00:12:05.940 --> 00:12:09.659
admit, yeah, it just drops away from them as soon as they're in

222
00:12:09.659 --> 00:12:10.320
company with one another.

223
00:12:10.379 --> 00:12:14.519
But I think for Clara, it drops away right the moment she's on the

224
00:12:14.519 --> 00:12:17.820
TARDIS again, where she says, oh, you know, I miss that sound.

225
00:12:17.879 --> 00:12:20.399
You know, she's so happy to be here.

226
00:12:20.460 --> 00:12:27.779
When Santa appears on Clara's roof, that's almost identical to the

227
00:12:27.779 --> 00:12:29.940
doctor appearing just by mistake.

228
00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:31.559
You know, it's the same thing.

229
00:12:31.620 --> 00:12:37.620
And when she says to Santa that she grew out of fairy tales, that's

230
00:12:37.620 --> 00:12:41.039
when the TARDIS appears to rescue her, really.

231
00:12:41.100 --> 00:12:43.320
And she's so excited to be back.

232
00:12:43.379 --> 00:12:44.820
She's so happy to see him.

233
00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:46.679
She wasn't expecting it.

234
00:12:46.740 --> 00:12:48.240
We thought that that was all I over.

235
00:12:48.299 --> 00:12:52.080
And although there is that thing that is finally explicitly

236
00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:53.460
resolved when they're in peril.

237
00:12:53.519 --> 00:12:55.980
She's so immediately happy to see him.

238
00:12:56.039 --> 00:12:59.820
Um, you know, which is kind of what we wanted, I think.

239
00:12:59.879 --> 00:13:02.519
She kind of assumes the companion role.

240
00:13:02.580 --> 00:13:06.840
Simon's made a point a few episodes ago, that he doesn't like it

241
00:13:06.840 --> 00:13:09.480
when companions don't travel with the doctor when the doctor just

242
00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:11.759
drops in and picks them up because it doesn't feel like you've got

243
00:13:11.759 --> 00:13:12.840
a cohesive team happening.

244
00:13:12.899 --> 00:13:16.500
I think Clara finally feels like a companion to the 12th doctor

245
00:13:16.500 --> 00:13:19.799
here, and a lot of it is because Capaldi has fine-tuned his

246
00:13:19.799 --> 00:13:22.139
performance and the writing has got it, and so it allows her to be

247
00:13:22.139 --> 00:13:22.500
that.

248
00:13:22.500 --> 00:13:24.899
It allows her rather than creating issues between them.

249
00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:26.940
It allows her just to be a companion for him.

250
00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:28.200
Yeah, absolutely.

251
00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:33.179
Something I find so interesting about that rooftop scene is the

252
00:13:33.179 --> 00:13:34.320
visual language of it.

253
00:13:34.379 --> 00:13:37.080
So you've got the sleigh in one corner and that's crashed.

254
00:13:37.139 --> 00:13:39.840
And then in the other corner, if you imagine, we're sort of

255
00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:41.879
looking at this like a stage and the other corner is where the

256
00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:44.100
TARDIS appears, but it appears on an angle.

257
00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:49.740
And something that was established for the new series in Russell's

258
00:13:49.740 --> 00:13:54.299
era was if the TARDIS appears on an angle, there's something

259
00:13:54.299 --> 00:13:54.600
wrong.

260
00:13:54.659 --> 00:13:59.159
And I think we 1st see it in Rise of the Cybermen, and Graham

261
00:13:59.159 --> 00:14:01.500
Harper, I think it was, says on the commentary, that's something

262
00:14:01.500 --> 00:14:04.320
Russell and I discussed, if something's wrong with the Tatars, it

263
00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:06.480
is on an angle, and it appears on an angle here.

264
00:14:06.539 --> 00:14:08.039
Now it's not always true.

265
00:14:08.100 --> 00:14:10.679
Like, it appears on an angle in flatline, and it's actually a

266
00:14:10.679 --> 00:14:14.399
symbol of heroism, and obviously, I'm tardestop PNG as well

267
00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:16.980
because they couldn't take it into the, um, into the tunnel.

268
00:14:17.039 --> 00:14:21.059
But even before that, when we're arriving in Clara's house, I

269
00:14:21.059 --> 00:14:24.480
didn't notice ever, before when I watched this, when we're

270
00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:28.379
arriving in Clara's house, we see a stair lift. which is

271
00:14:28.379 --> 00:14:32.220
foreshadowing the original ending, which we will talk about later

272
00:14:32.279 --> 00:14:33.059
get to.

273
00:14:33.059 --> 00:14:33.600
Yeah.

274
00:14:33.779 --> 00:14:40.620
So we have Ian, who is Dan Starkey and Wolf, who is surprisingly

275
00:14:40.620 --> 00:14:42.480
hot for sad as Elf, I think.

276
00:14:42.539 --> 00:14:44.879
At Nathan McMullen.

277
00:14:44.940 --> 00:14:46.379
Fresh off misfits.

278
00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:47.639
Yes, yeah that's right.

279
00:14:47.700 --> 00:14:52.980
And Nick Frost, who is the last member of the main cast of spaced

280
00:14:52.980 --> 00:14:56.580
to appear for the 1st time in Doctor Who.

281
00:14:56.639 --> 00:14:58.559
He's perfect, isn't he?

282
00:14:58.620 --> 00:14:59.460
He's so funny.

283
00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:00.659
Yeah, yeah.

284
00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:02.639
So, it's so well judged.

285
00:15:02.700 --> 00:15:06.000
Like, he's just like walking a fine line, the whole, the whole

286
00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:06.480
time.

287
00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:09.720
And he's big and he's over the top, but he's also like, I think

288
00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:12.840
funniest when he's doing these like really tiny little moments

289
00:15:12.840 --> 00:15:15.539
like, particularly like between the elves.

290
00:15:15.539 --> 00:15:17.820
And then when he's talking to Shona.

291
00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:20.580
And it says, oh, what is it?

292
00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:22.799
I've got 3 words for you, my little pony.

293
00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:25.620
It's so good.

294
00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:26.759
He's fantastic.

295
00:15:26.820 --> 00:15:28.200
Especially, love.

296
00:15:28.259 --> 00:15:31.019
There are 522 million, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, children in

297
00:15:31.019 --> 00:15:31.320
the world.

298
00:15:31.379 --> 00:15:33.299
Obviously, I have a 2nd sledge.

299
00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:36.899
Well, no, it's also that brilliant line about, you know, how do

300
00:15:36.899 --> 00:15:39.059
you fit all the presents in, bigger on the inside, and the elves

301
00:15:39.059 --> 00:15:42.480
give this amazing response, like, ooh, yeah, yeah.

302
00:15:42.539 --> 00:15:47.940
The elves are like 2 typical British teenagers.

303
00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:52.019
Like they're like Lauren and Nicky Wortley on the Catherine Tate

304
00:15:52.019 --> 00:15:52.440
show.

305
00:15:52.500 --> 00:15:54.600
They're just goading on...

306
00:15:54.779 --> 00:15:59.220
They're just goading on whatever Bance is happening, you know what

307
00:15:59.220 --> 00:15:59.580
I mean?

308
00:15:59.639 --> 00:16:03.960
And I am almost 40 years old and I will never say Bance again.

309
00:16:04.019 --> 00:16:05.100
I apologise.

310
00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:08.039
Don't meet me come over there.

311
00:16:08.100 --> 00:16:09.899
It might be a little bit controversial.

312
00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:13.500
I do think that Nick Frost does a pretty good job and what a great

313
00:16:13.500 --> 00:16:14.279
surname for the role.

314
00:16:14.340 --> 00:16:15.059
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

315
00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:18.600
But I think the episode kind of grinds to a halt with any scene

316
00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:19.620
incent. with Santa.

317
00:16:19.860 --> 00:16:24.299
Yeah, they go on too long and there's too much business.

318
00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:27.240
And I know that that's what makes it Christmassy, but it didn't

319
00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:28.259
quite feel clever enough.

320
00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:31.919
There was it was a little bit obvious, the kind of puns that were

321
00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:32.580
being thrown in.

322
00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:34.799
I just thought it could have come alive a little bit more

323
00:16:34.799 --> 00:16:35.639
controversy over.

324
00:16:35.700 --> 00:16:38.580
I think that's a Christmas day thing a little bit that you're

325
00:16:38.580 --> 00:16:41.820
allowed to, you're allowed to kind of pad it out and make it a bit

326
00:16:41.820 --> 00:16:45.120
silly and make it like, because I felt the same watching it like

327
00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:47.700
this morning where, you know, it's June.

328
00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:51.000
But like to think if it was Christmas day and you were a bit

329
00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:51.600
drunk.

330
00:16:51.659 --> 00:16:52.139
Yeah.

331
00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:55.500
Like, that's the stuff that you just don't particularly, like that

332
00:16:55.500 --> 00:16:57.720
sort of becomes part, you know, it's a part of it.

333
00:16:57.779 --> 00:17:01.620
And it's a kids show moment as well, which he's allowed to do.

334
00:17:01.740 --> 00:17:04.920
Like he's basically got aliens where people's brains are being

335
00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:11.279
dissolved by aliens and Santa and his sleigh and Rudolph and, you

336
00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:12.480
know, elves and stuff.

337
00:17:12.539 --> 00:17:16.380
Like, I just think that combination is so perfect and so Doctor

338
00:17:16.380 --> 00:17:16.980
Who.

339
00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:22.140
And I think there's a game he's playing with the audience, which

340
00:17:22.140 --> 00:17:23.940
is Santa real.

341
00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:24.539
Yeah.

342
00:17:24.539 --> 00:17:28.319
And you can ever be too explicit about that. when you've got

343
00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:28.619
kids.

344
00:17:28.680 --> 00:17:29.700
Yeah, I was thinking.

345
00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:32.220
So you can't be too exquisit about it in a kid's show.

346
00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:37.680
But the thing is that there was always the possibility that he

347
00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:40.200
would be real because the moon's an egg.

348
00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:46.259
And because this season of Doctor Who has absolutely gone and done

349
00:17:46.259 --> 00:17:50.400
some very, very strange and weird stuff that's well beyond the

350
00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:54.059
boundaries of what many fans can cope with and well beyond the

351
00:17:54.059 --> 00:17:56.759
boundaries of what the show has done before in the kind of real

352
00:17:56.759 --> 00:17:57.240
world.

353
00:17:57.299 --> 00:18:04.019
And because also, Moffatt compares the doctor to Santa Claus in

354
00:18:04.019 --> 00:18:07.500
the 1st televised Doctor Who that he ever writes, which is that

355
00:18:07.500 --> 00:18:14.460
final speech by Emma in Curse of Fatal Death, where he compares.

356
00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:15.180
Yeah.

357
00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:17.099
And in the 1st episode.

358
00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:18.480
Is it the 1st episode?

359
00:18:18.539 --> 00:18:21.839
No, but it is, it's in Father's Day, I think.

360
00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:25.680
Isn't Christopher Eccleston's Dr. Santa?

361
00:18:25.740 --> 00:18:27.900
Doesn't he sneak back in time and buy it?

362
00:18:28.019 --> 00:18:29.880
No, no, it's Dr. Dancers.

363
00:18:29.940 --> 00:18:30.660
It's Moffat.

364
00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:31.380
Dr. Dancers.

365
00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:32.460
It is Moffat.

366
00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:32.940
There you go.

367
00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:34.859
Red bike when you were 12, right?

368
00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:37.799
So it's always been a thing.

369
00:18:37.859 --> 00:18:43.319
And let's not forget 11th hour where Amelia is praying to Santa.

370
00:18:43.380 --> 00:18:44.579
And the doctor of you.

371
00:18:47.339 --> 00:18:49.740
And Santa's brought her a bike.

372
00:18:50.579 --> 00:18:52.259
And a fish.

373
00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:56.099
The fish have fingers.

374
00:18:57.539 --> 00:19:01.500
So that's always been a really moffety thing.

375
00:19:01.559 --> 00:19:05.640
And this season has at least one episode, which is about how the

376
00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:09.420
doctor is a fictional hero like Robin Hood, and it makes Robin

377
00:19:09.420 --> 00:19:13.440
Hood real in the world of Doctor Who in order to kind of make that

378
00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:13.799
point.

379
00:19:13.859 --> 00:19:18.000
So there's just a possibility that there's a real Santa.

380
00:19:18.059 --> 00:19:21.480
I mean, remember, Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe has actual

381
00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:26.759
Santa comes along and that doesn't end up happening in the Doctor

382
00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:30.180
the Widow and the Wardrobe, but he's just teaching on the edge of

383
00:19:30.180 --> 00:19:32.279
being part of the Doctor Who world.

384
00:19:32.339 --> 00:19:37.500
And so having him explain to Shona how he can be real, you know, if

385
00:19:37.500 --> 00:19:41.279
he feeds the magic carrots, and that's how they can fly, you

386
00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:41.519
know.

387
00:19:41.819 --> 00:19:45.420
And the doctor is being Santa and the doctor, the widow and the

388
00:19:45.420 --> 00:19:45.900
wardrobe.

389
00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:49.079
The caretaker who's providing all of those brilliant things for

390
00:19:49.079 --> 00:19:50.099
the kids who've come for Christmas.

391
00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:50.940
Yeah.

392
00:19:50.940 --> 00:19:56.099
I was struck this time by how clever Moffat is in terms of like

393
00:19:56.099 --> 00:19:58.980
threading that needle a lot of the time where it's sort of this

394
00:19:58.980 --> 00:20:02.160
like playfulness where, particularly because it's a kid's show, as

395
00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:02.579
you were saying.

396
00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:05.279
I was a bit older when I was watching this, but if you were like 7

397
00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:09.119
or 8 watching this, maybe, like you would be, you would be

398
00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:11.819
invested in what your favourite show was about to say about this

399
00:20:11.819 --> 00:20:14.759
guy that was meant to, you know, that delivered you presents the

400
00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:15.539
previous night.

401
00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:18.539
You know, like, I think he's being like, it's a really clever

402
00:20:18.539 --> 00:20:21.119
balance that he strikes, particularly because we get to that

403
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:23.759
endpoint with the sleigh ride that we talked about before.

404
00:20:23.819 --> 00:20:28.259
I think that sort of Moffat coming to land on, No, of course

405
00:20:28.259 --> 00:20:30.359
Santa's real, the doctor's real, and Santa's real.

406
00:20:30.420 --> 00:20:33.720
And it was me hoping all along just that Santa's a robot.

407
00:20:35.519 --> 00:20:40.559
In fact, it does the thing, and I haven't watched this or hadn't

408
00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:43.680
watched this for a while until I watched it yesterday, but I do

409
00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:49.079
remember that as we're looking out the window, I said to myself

410
00:20:49.079 --> 00:20:51.599
there has to be some sign that Santa is still here.

411
00:20:51.660 --> 00:20:55.859
And there is, of course, there's the tangerine, which nobody

412
00:20:55.859 --> 00:20:56.339
likes.

413
00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:59.579
The last shot has the tangerine and the sound of sleigh bells.

414
00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:04.440
And obviously that's because Santa's real in our real world.

415
00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:07.680
Or, of course, because it's Moffat.

416
00:21:07.740 --> 00:21:09.240
It's a sign that they never wake up.

417
00:21:09.299 --> 00:21:10.559
Yeah, you know.

418
00:21:10.619 --> 00:21:14.700
Yeah, that's the inception dial. tangerine in the window.

419
00:21:14.759 --> 00:21:16.500
Talking about that.

420
00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:19.740
People who complain about the obviousness of Santa at Christmas

421
00:21:19.740 --> 00:21:23.460
and the obviousness of what Moffat is plundering and the rest of

422
00:21:23.460 --> 00:21:28.500
the story, you know, the thing and Alien and Miracle on 34th

423
00:21:28.500 --> 00:21:30.779
Street, all those things are listed on Shona's list.

424
00:21:30.839 --> 00:21:33.420
If you're going to do a Christmas Day special.

425
00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:35.640
I think going back to what you were saying earlier, it does need

426
00:21:35.640 --> 00:21:36.779
to be a little bit more obvious.

427
00:21:36.839 --> 00:21:38.519
Yeah, anything else.

428
00:21:38.579 --> 00:21:43.500
Yeah, Russell and Stephen, both sort of talk about this when they

429
00:21:43.500 --> 00:21:46.259
talk about Christmas specials, and their sort of consensus is

430
00:21:46.259 --> 00:21:51.839
there are a lot of people who only watch Doctor Who at Christmas

431
00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:53.880
because they're with the family.

432
00:21:53.940 --> 00:21:58.079
So having the Danny story come back in this, there is enough

433
00:21:58.079 --> 00:21:59.700
information in this to make sense of it.

434
00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:02.460
And Moffat has actually responded to that.

435
00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:06.240
He was asked by some by some interviewer, if he, you know, felt

436
00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:09.180
ashamed at plundering these things so obviously, you know, some

437
00:22:09.180 --> 00:22:10.079
sort of catty question.

438
00:22:10.140 --> 00:22:13.440
And he responded by saying, did alien apologise for ripping off

439
00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:14.099
the arc in space?

440
00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:15.960
Absolutely.

441
00:22:17.940 --> 00:22:21.720
And you know, there's also elements of the thing in this

442
00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:26.460
especially when the flares at the end, but the thing rips off the

443
00:22:26.460 --> 00:22:30.779
thing from another world, which ripped off other horror and sci-fi

444
00:22:30.779 --> 00:22:32.460
stories before it, you know.

445
00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:33.900
Yeah, seeds of doing.

446
00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:38.220
Very good episode of the X-Files, you remember?

447
00:22:39.299 --> 00:22:43.259
I think we should only really complain about ripoffs.

448
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:47.579
If it's not doing something well or new.

449
00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:51.359
And I think this does enough new things with its ingredients.

450
00:22:51.900 --> 00:22:57.119
One thing that I think might be a reference that is sort of

451
00:22:57.119 --> 00:23:02.579
overlooked is the Nightmare on Elm Street series, which Rachel

452
00:23:02.579 --> 00:23:04.079
Tellala worked on.

453
00:23:04.140 --> 00:23:06.420
Now, of course, Rachel doesn't direct this.

454
00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:07.920
Paul Wimshurst, I think.

455
00:23:07.980 --> 00:23:09.660
Yeah, doing an awesome job.

456
00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:11.220
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

457
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:13.500
So Rachel directs Freddie's dead.

458
00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:17.339
The final nightmare, and she is also a producer on Nightmare on

459
00:23:17.339 --> 00:23:18.359
Elm Street 3 and 4.

460
00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:22.799
And in Nightmare on Elm Street 3, uh, character is pulled through

461
00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:26.759
a television, as happens to uh, one of the Trouton boys in this

462
00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:27.000
one.

463
00:23:27.299 --> 00:23:31.140
Those are those standard kind of horror tropes like poltergeists

464
00:23:31.140 --> 00:23:31.680
and stuff like that.

465
00:23:31.740 --> 00:23:33.660
If you're going to do something scary at Christmas. all the way.

466
00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:37.859
It's the moment to where the whole kind of attempt of the dream

467
00:23:37.859 --> 00:23:42.480
crabs to create a plausible reality breaks down and it's just like

468
00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:46.319
oh, you know, forget it will just pull the guy into a television.

469
00:23:46.380 --> 00:23:47.940
They all know it's fake.

470
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:48.660
Let's do that.

471
00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:49.920
And that does kill him.

472
00:23:49.980 --> 00:23:51.359
Like he is actually dead.

473
00:23:51.420 --> 00:23:53.759
We don't see professor Albert waking up with the others.

474
00:23:53.819 --> 00:23:57.000
There's a really like, not funny, but I kind of laughed at Peter

475
00:23:57.000 --> 00:24:00.539
Capaldi's line or the 12th top this line of us, somewhere he's

476
00:24:00.539 --> 00:24:01.140
woken up dead.

477
00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:02.519
Yeah.

478
00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:05.819
Really, like, perfect.

479
00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:08.940
And what you were saying, Brendan, about, you know, if you're

480
00:24:08.940 --> 00:24:09.960
going to rip off, do it well.

481
00:24:10.019 --> 00:24:13.859
No one, I think, would argue that Stephen Mothad doesn't take this

482
00:24:13.859 --> 00:24:15.660
material and do really good things with it.

483
00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:18.779
He probably cleverer than the people who wrote the archetypal

484
00:24:18.779 --> 00:24:19.259
material.

485
00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:22.140
And so it's filled with those clever moffity things.

486
00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:25.859
The non-erasing blackboard and the fact that people just keep

487
00:24:25.859 --> 00:24:28.380
saying it's a long story because they don't actually have the

488
00:24:28.380 --> 00:24:28.859
backstory.

489
00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:30.779
Yeah, because it's not real.

490
00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:31.799
It's not a real situation.

491
00:24:31.859 --> 00:24:36.359
And the brilliant moment where he tricks Clara into saying it's a

492
00:24:36.359 --> 00:24:36.960
long story.

493
00:24:37.019 --> 00:24:38.640
It's so good.

494
00:24:38.700 --> 00:24:40.380
And she is really good there.

495
00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:41.579
She is.

496
00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:44.819
I mean, that's like another thing with in this episode that I

497
00:24:44.819 --> 00:24:49.259
adored was just being reminded of how fantastic Jenna Coleman is.

498
00:24:49.380 --> 00:24:52.920
And particularly the scene, which I guess will come to, but the

499
00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:57.480
scene that's Clara's sort of dream, or her nightmare, I suppose

500
00:24:57.480 --> 00:25:02.099
her nightmare or dream, where the doctor sort of like intrudes in

501
00:25:02.099 --> 00:25:02.519
on it.

502
00:25:02.579 --> 00:25:05.759
And when he's trying to like convince her that this isn't real.

503
00:25:05.819 --> 00:25:09.960
And Jenna in that in that exchange is just like heartbreaking and

504
00:25:09.960 --> 00:25:12.839
she's just doing stuff with her eyes basically, but it's just like

505
00:25:12.839 --> 00:25:14.579
inflating them.

506
00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:15.779
Yeah, inflating them.

507
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:16.799
How does he do it?

508
00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:21.059
That confirmed for me, even though I've had misgivings about Clara

509
00:25:21.059 --> 00:25:23.519
on and off, that the problem has never been Jana.

510
00:25:23.579 --> 00:25:24.359
No. no.

511
00:25:24.420 --> 00:25:25.200
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

512
00:25:25.259 --> 00:25:25.980
She's extraordinary.

513
00:25:26.099 --> 00:25:26.279
Yeah.

514
00:25:26.339 --> 00:25:27.000
Yeah.

515
00:25:27.059 --> 00:25:30.539
I mean, as we are recording, it's been announced this week that

516
00:25:30.539 --> 00:25:35.640
Bonnie Langford is going to appear in series 14.

517
00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:39.420
And I think we've said on the podcast before, there are

518
00:25:39.420 --> 00:25:42.960
similarities between Jenna and Bonnie in that.

519
00:25:43.019 --> 00:25:45.119
They both have these amazing careers.

520
00:25:45.180 --> 00:25:49.740
And also in Doctor Who, they weren't necessarily always given the

521
00:25:49.740 --> 00:25:52.380
best material, especially sort of early Clara.

522
00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:57.480
But it's kind of weird because this is, I think, the 1st time that

523
00:25:57.480 --> 00:26:01.319
Jenna Coleman has decided, No, I'd like to stay on longer and

524
00:26:01.319 --> 00:26:04.079
Stephen Moffatt's like, I'm not going to let you go because you're

525
00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:04.559
brilliant.

526
00:26:04.619 --> 00:26:10.079
And so starts giving her more material that allows her to really

527
00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:11.460
get her teeth into it.

528
00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:14.220
And even going back to that scene you were talking about earlier

529
00:26:14.220 --> 00:26:18.299
Max, where they admit they were lying to each other.

530
00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:26.220
It's such an excellent scene which other actors may have done in a

531
00:26:26.220 --> 00:26:28.619
more overstated way.

532
00:26:28.680 --> 00:26:33.299
And that's not necessarily a criticism of how anyone else might

533
00:26:33.299 --> 00:26:33.900
have done it.

534
00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:35.039
There's certainly a place for that.

535
00:26:35.099 --> 00:26:40.140
But Peter and Jenna instead decide to play it all on their faces

536
00:26:40.140 --> 00:26:43.559
without becoming incredibly overwrought in the voices.

537
00:26:43.619 --> 00:26:50.279
I think possibly part of the reason that Jenna becomes so good as

538
00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:56.339
Clara is because she and Peter Capaldi's acting styles just melds

539
00:26:56.339 --> 00:26:57.059
so well together.

540
00:26:57.119 --> 00:27:00.839
Not that she was bad with Matt Smith, but just she's on another

541
00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:01.740
level with Capaldi.

542
00:27:02.039 --> 00:27:06.180
And I think also it is just the incredible material that she's

543
00:27:06.180 --> 00:27:06.599
getting here.

544
00:27:06.660 --> 00:27:12.240
So that horror movie sequence in that dream within a dream is

545
00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:12.599
great.

546
00:27:12.660 --> 00:27:15.299
It's full of hilarious Moffatt dialogue.

547
00:27:15.299 --> 00:27:20.279
It's properly funny and it's properly heartbreaking as well.

548
00:27:20.339 --> 00:27:25.440
I was saying to you guys before we started recording that I'd

549
00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:28.920
forgotten how affecting some parts of this episode are.

550
00:27:28.980 --> 00:27:33.299
And particularly, I think if you, if just coming off series 8 as

551
00:27:33.299 --> 00:27:37.740
well, so that obviously the, the loss that Clara has suffered in

552
00:27:37.740 --> 00:27:40.859
in losing Danny and kind of the awfulness in the way that he was

553
00:27:40.859 --> 00:27:46.019
taken from her life, you really like feel the unfairness on

554
00:27:46.019 --> 00:27:50.519
Clara's part of why shouldn't I be allowed to live in this, in

555
00:27:50.519 --> 00:27:52.319
this house with this person that I love?

556
00:27:52.380 --> 00:27:54.960
And like, I think Jenna is fantastic.

557
00:27:55.079 --> 00:27:58.259
Peter's fantastic, but Samuel in that scene is so good.

558
00:27:58.980 --> 00:28:00.720
Danny pink in red..

559
00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:04.559
He's playing it quite differently because it is the 1st time that

560
00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:08.279
we have seen him not sort of concerned or so he's just a little

561
00:28:08.279 --> 00:28:10.980
bit goofier and a little bit sillier.

562
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:16.079
And I guess initially because he's a figment, you know, who's

563
00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:19.559
created by Clara's mind as part of the dream.

564
00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:22.319
But I think, is that how she sees him?

565
00:28:22.380 --> 00:28:22.859
No.

566
00:28:22.859 --> 00:28:23.579
Fluffier.

567
00:28:23.700 --> 00:28:26.759
Well, maybe, but it's also Christmas and he's being silly and

568
00:28:26.759 --> 00:28:27.059
stuff.

569
00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:32.220
But I think he becomes Danny, and it is explicit, isn't it?

570
00:28:32.279 --> 00:28:35.519
I'm going to save you again, and this is how I'm going to do it.

571
00:28:35.579 --> 00:28:40.680
And that thing about 5 minutes, you know, like, I want my 5

572
00:28:40.680 --> 00:28:41.099
minutes.

573
00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:44.880
You're going to think about me and miss me for 5 minutes properly

574
00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:46.500
and then you're going to get on with your life.

575
00:28:46.500 --> 00:28:52.619
And just we had that thing about grief in dark water at the

576
00:28:52.619 --> 00:28:53.640
beginning of dark water.

577
00:28:53.700 --> 00:28:56.579
Next year, we'll have a thing about grief, which is sort of

578
00:28:56.579 --> 00:29:00.000
operatic and enormous and kind of overblown.

579
00:29:00.059 --> 00:29:03.599
This is a love, wonderful, you know, one of the best things. the

580
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:04.200
show ever does.

581
00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:07.859
But, yeah, not a criticism.

582
00:29:09.059 --> 00:29:11.220
I just wanted to touch it.

583
00:29:11.220 --> 00:29:12.480
I wanted to check.

584
00:29:12.539 --> 00:29:18.119
But this is a sweet, you know, and very real, you know, proper

585
00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:19.859
thing about what grief is like.

586
00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:21.059
I just thought it was so good.

587
00:29:21.059 --> 00:29:25.500
And a central metaphor as well, the conceit of the last every

588
00:29:25.500 --> 00:29:26.220
Christmas is last.

589
00:29:26.339 --> 00:29:28.859
Yeah, which I did read Xander's review.

590
00:29:28.859 --> 00:29:33.119
And she said, it is missing a definite article, but...

591
00:29:33.180 --> 00:29:34.500
I thought it was just the song.

592
00:29:34.619 --> 00:29:37.440
I thought it was just the, I think that's part of it.

593
00:29:37.500 --> 00:29:39.660
Well, they don't even play last Christmas.

594
00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:40.680
No.

595
00:29:40.740 --> 00:29:42.599
Mandela effects.

596
00:29:42.660 --> 00:29:43.500
I thought they did.

597
00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:47.579
Yeah, probably not. song, which, by the way, is a bit cringy.

598
00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:48.420
Shona.

599
00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:50.640
I absolutely...

600
00:29:50.700 --> 00:29:51.480
Love it.

601
00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:52.859
Love it.

602
00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:56.099
Well, because part of the thing is too, that you don't quite know

603
00:29:56.099 --> 00:29:57.180
what's going on.

604
00:29:57.240 --> 00:30:02.400
And because the space-based people are so generic, like they're so

605
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:07.740
completely and utterly generic, and it is the usual kind of space

606
00:30:06.900 --> 00:30:10.559
based people in an RTD or a Moffat era show.

607
00:30:10.619 --> 00:30:14.220
You know, they're sort of different ages, ethnically diverse and

608
00:30:14.220 --> 00:30:14.759
so on.

609
00:30:14.819 --> 00:30:17.400
But the whole time you're they're going, what the hell is

610
00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:18.900
happening with Shona?

611
00:30:19.019 --> 00:30:20.400
Like, what is she?

612
00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:24.359
Do you know what just struck me actually when you were talking

613
00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:26.759
about all of that and kind of, you know, the meditation on grief

614
00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:31.259
that this is what Star Trek Generations was aiming for and misses

615
00:30:31.259 --> 00:30:33.720
in its latter stages in the Nexus?

616
00:30:33.779 --> 00:30:37.259
Because Picard is having a meditation on grief because he's lost

617
00:30:37.259 --> 00:30:38.579
his family and his nephew.

618
00:30:38.579 --> 00:30:41.759
And it's kind of you're like, you go into that dream world and

619
00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:43.920
you're drawn into it and it's like, do you just stay in the

620
00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:47.099
happiness, like Clara, the opportunity to?

621
00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:49.859
And it doesn't land with half as much impact as this does.

622
00:30:49.980 --> 00:30:50.519
Yeah.

623
00:30:50.519 --> 00:30:55.740
No, well, that's because of the ugly, ugly children that Picard

624
00:30:55.740 --> 00:30:58.200
imagines that he has when he's in the nexus.

625
00:30:58.200 --> 00:30:59.220
Brady Bunch.

626
00:30:59.339 --> 00:31:00.720
Thank you for the dolly, Papa.

627
00:31:01.319 --> 00:31:06.779
And and the absurd, the absurd decision to have someone a little

628
00:31:06.779 --> 00:31:09.720
bit, but not entirely unlike Beverly.

629
00:31:09.779 --> 00:31:12.000
It's like just have just have gates.

630
00:31:12.059 --> 00:31:16.140
She's done through this film anyway, except smile at Geordie and

631
00:31:16.140 --> 00:31:17.519
be called Ugly by some Klingons.

632
00:31:17.579 --> 00:31:19.680
Yeah, she does get pushed.

633
00:31:19.740 --> 00:31:23.160
If James was here, he would say, when are we doing the Star Trek

634
00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:24.000
generations podcast?

635
00:31:24.059 --> 00:31:25.440
I've done it already.

636
00:31:26.819 --> 00:31:29.940
Actually, Nathan, fun fact about that stunt.

637
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:33.359
That's actually Patricia Tallman, whose most famous for playing

638
00:31:33.359 --> 00:31:34.859
Lita Alexander in Babylon 5.

639
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:36.480
Oh my goodness.

640
00:31:36.539 --> 00:31:37.500
I've never heard of that.

641
00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:38.519
There you go.

642
00:31:38.519 --> 00:31:39.539
It's okay.

643
00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:40.079
Yeah.

644
00:31:56.519 --> 00:31:59.579
Can we talk about the dream crabs?

645
00:31:59.700 --> 00:32:00.420
Yeah.

646
00:32:00.539 --> 00:32:03.240
So, what do we think?

647
00:32:03.299 --> 00:32:05.880
I think they're a lovely puppet.

648
00:32:05.940 --> 00:32:09.599
Because there's a bit where one of them's in the and I love the

649
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:10.380
one in the glass, yeah.

650
00:32:10.440 --> 00:32:13.259
Yeah, I'm doing the motion now, listener, because this is the

651
00:32:13.259 --> 00:32:14.279
perfect thing for podcasting.

652
00:32:14.339 --> 00:32:18.359
But, you know, if at home you hold up your own hand and just sort

653
00:32:18.359 --> 00:32:22.559
of gently undulate your fingers, you can achieve the desired

654
00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:23.099
effect.

655
00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:25.980
Yeah, no, I think they're a wonderful practical effect.

656
00:32:26.039 --> 00:32:28.440
And we know how hard they are to get right.

657
00:32:28.500 --> 00:32:30.299
Do you remember the dream Beetle from turn left.

658
00:32:30.539 --> 00:32:32.160
Backpack.

659
00:32:32.220 --> 00:32:33.000
Yeah.

660
00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:36.000
Well, I mean, the thing is that they appear to have a mouth.

661
00:32:36.059 --> 00:32:39.539
You know, there's that thing about how they can't see or hear.

662
00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:43.319
So it's a completely featureless thing apart from a mouth and then

663
00:32:43.319 --> 00:32:47.400
they advance on you and open the mouth.

664
00:32:47.460 --> 00:32:50.160
Like I think that works incredibly well.

665
00:32:50.220 --> 00:32:58.980
And I have to say that the fact that the sleepers were the 4 of

666
00:32:58.980 --> 00:32:59.460
them.

667
00:33:00.299 --> 00:33:05.640
I can't remember, but I doubt that I realised that until the

668
00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:07.079
characters themselves did.

669
00:33:07.140 --> 00:33:10.740
Yeah, I think I'd forgotten it and this time it's like, you know

670
00:33:10.740 --> 00:33:12.119
yeah, it really works.

671
00:33:12.180 --> 00:33:13.680
I was fooled at the time.

672
00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:15.299
They're quite scary as well.

673
00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:18.359
That little set piece with Clara being menaced.

674
00:33:18.420 --> 00:33:20.099
Yeah, that is scary.

675
00:33:20.220 --> 00:33:21.000
Play mute.

676
00:33:21.059 --> 00:33:21.900
Yeah, yeah.

677
00:33:21.960 --> 00:33:23.099
She shoots a proper scream.

678
00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:26.160
Really screams and she does it so well. really good.

679
00:33:26.460 --> 00:33:29.880
She belts out and Moffat's like, come back for another suit.

680
00:33:31.019 --> 00:33:34.859
I can't believe we haven't done this. that's right.

681
00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:41.759
I love the ice cream pain description of when they're under and

682
00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:45.180
they it's the thing of like that pain getting sharper.

683
00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:48.180
It's such a gross image of them eating, eating.

684
00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:49.380
Yeah, yeah.

685
00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:50.099
That was done.

686
00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:52.680
Have you ever seen Star Trek, the Next Generation's schisms?

687
00:33:52.740 --> 00:33:53.160
No.

688
00:33:53.160 --> 00:33:53.519
Yes.

689
00:33:53.579 --> 00:33:55.440
Because that is exactly the same thing.

690
00:33:55.500 --> 00:33:58.019
They keep coming in with these mysterious aches and pains.

691
00:33:58.019 --> 00:33:59.400
They kind of have, you know, this pain.

692
00:33:59.460 --> 00:34:01.680
I think it might be Geordie, has a pain in his temple.

693
00:34:02.279 --> 00:34:05.339
And it turns out he's having something horrible drilled into it.

694
00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:10.920
And also in Star Trek, you have Phantasms where data is having

695
00:34:10.920 --> 00:34:15.000
nightmares and one of the nightmares has Beverly drinking Riker's

696
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:15.719
brain with a straw.

697
00:34:15.780 --> 00:34:19.920
Yes, that's right. would explain a lot.

698
00:34:19.980 --> 00:34:22.260
Yeah, it's a cellulopeptide cake.

699
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:22.619
Yeah.

700
00:34:22.619 --> 00:34:24.059
Yeah.

701
00:34:24.780 --> 00:34:27.420
Let's talk about the next generation.

702
00:34:27.900 --> 00:34:30.300
Can we talk about the guest cast?

703
00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:31.619
Yeah.

704
00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:32.400
Yeah.

705
00:34:32.460 --> 00:34:37.500
So we have Michael Troughton for a start and another professor.

706
00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:42.719
He actually sounds exactly like his father when he's giving Shona

707
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:44.519
the instructions at the very beginning.

708
00:34:44.579 --> 00:34:46.380
Now she just sounds like it.

709
00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:48.360
Yes, it absolutely sounds like it.

710
00:34:48.420 --> 00:34:51.119
Sounds really like his brother in...

711
00:34:51.179 --> 00:34:51.719
Yeah, yeah.

712
00:34:51.780 --> 00:34:53.039
And that's the thing.

713
00:34:53.099 --> 00:34:56.880
It becomes his own voice when Shona's like he was feeling up my

714
00:34:56.880 --> 00:34:57.179
knee.

715
00:34:57.239 --> 00:34:59.400
I thought it was comforting.

716
00:34:59.460 --> 00:35:01.139
That's where the doctorness goes.

717
00:35:01.139 --> 00:35:03.719
And I wonder if it's conscious choice on his part.

718
00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:09.360
Because he is playing the 2nd doctor now for Big Finish, Michael

719
00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:10.139
Troughton.

720
00:35:10.139 --> 00:35:13.619
And he does it differently to how David does it because David does

721
00:35:13.619 --> 00:35:17.579
it too, but it's very good, but his own voice is quite different

722
00:35:17.579 --> 00:35:18.659
from his dad's.

723
00:35:18.719 --> 00:35:21.599
So I think I think it may be a conscious choice.

724
00:35:21.659 --> 00:35:23.760
Yes, I'm very comforting and da da da da.

725
00:35:23.820 --> 00:35:27.119
But also, yes, I was touching your knee.

726
00:35:27.179 --> 00:35:27.480
Yes.

727
00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:31.500
Exactly like the 2nd doctor.

728
00:35:31.559 --> 00:35:32.159
Yeah, yeah.

729
00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:33.179
Two families.

730
00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:38.219
But again, like the, you know, the revelation that they're not

731
00:35:38.219 --> 00:35:42.599
really sort of space people, you know, on a space base.

732
00:35:42.659 --> 00:35:45.480
Well, we don't know what he actually is because he...

733
00:35:45.539 --> 00:35:48.960
He wakes up dead, but Ashley's, you know, an account executive for

734
00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:49.980
a perfume company.

735
00:35:50.039 --> 00:35:51.900
I think she's magnificent.

736
00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:52.860
There's actually one.

737
00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:53.639
Yeah, yeah.

738
00:35:53.699 --> 00:35:54.659
Oh, no, no, no, no.

739
00:35:54.659 --> 00:35:56.039
Bellows is the sexy Bellows.

740
00:35:56.460 --> 00:36:01.679
See, I was getting vibes of what's her face from the gangers 2

741
00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:02.219
parter.

742
00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:02.880
I'm sorry.

743
00:36:02.940 --> 00:36:05.820
Yeah, well, you know, I thought she was good.

744
00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:10.500
But it was very clearly like we're assembling these people from

745
00:36:10.500 --> 00:36:14.820
you know, like Ashley's doing a bit of a sort of, you know

746
00:36:14.820 --> 00:36:16.679
Vannette Robinson from 42.

747
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:22.019
You know, we're just picking these people from the previous space

748
00:36:20.519 --> 00:36:22.800
based people.

749
00:36:22.860 --> 00:36:24.960
But they're all really terrible at it.

750
00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:25.619
Yeah.

751
00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:30.360
Well, the thing is, at one point, Bellows, who is the older woman

752
00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:32.400
who Capaldi calls sexy.

753
00:36:32.460 --> 00:36:35.159
At one point when the dream crabs are trying to come through the

754
00:36:35.159 --> 00:36:35.400
door.

755
00:36:35.460 --> 00:36:39.719
She is the one hitting the dream crabs back with the butt of her

756
00:36:39.719 --> 00:36:40.440
rifle.

757
00:36:40.500 --> 00:36:45.239
Like she is Ripley in this because the thing to remember about

758
00:36:45.239 --> 00:36:49.199
Ripley is she's not an action heroine to begin with.

759
00:36:49.260 --> 00:36:53.699
She becomes that as the series goes on, but she's the navigator, I

760
00:36:53.699 --> 00:36:55.079
believe, of the Nostromo.

761
00:36:55.139 --> 00:36:59.099
You know, with some combat training, but the whole point is she's

762
00:36:59.099 --> 00:37:03.659
meant to be an ordinary intelligent person and you get that with

763
00:37:03.659 --> 00:37:04.320
Burroughs as well.

764
00:37:04.380 --> 00:37:07.860
Who's, yeah, the one who's ready to whack a dream crap in the

765
00:37:07.860 --> 00:37:08.039
face.

766
00:37:08.340 --> 00:37:12.000
And they're kind of melancholy those scenes where the characters

767
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:15.119
are waking up because even though they've been saved and all of

768
00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:15.239
that.

769
00:37:15.300 --> 00:37:17.460
This is an adventure, which is probably the adventure of their

770
00:37:17.460 --> 00:37:19.500
lifetime, and they're never going to have, they've just gone back

771
00:37:19.500 --> 00:37:20.280
to their boring lives.

772
00:37:20.340 --> 00:37:23.159
It's all, you know, it's maybe sort of what Christmas day is as

773
00:37:23.159 --> 00:37:23.340
well.

774
00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:26.099
Together you have fun and then boxing day is always a letdown.

775
00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:30.780
But I think Shona actually does get a good ending.

776
00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:33.420
She does. what she's forgiving Dave for.

777
00:37:33.480 --> 00:37:35.099
Well, but that's nice.

778
00:37:35.159 --> 00:37:38.159
I thought that that was really good, that, and she ticks it.

779
00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:40.860
Like I have, she's just decided to forgive him.

780
00:37:40.860 --> 00:37:42.599
And we don't know anything about it.

781
00:37:42.659 --> 00:37:43.500
Of course, we don't.

782
00:37:43.619 --> 00:37:46.619
And, you know, it's that sort of thing where Moffatt puts all of

783
00:37:46.619 --> 00:37:48.539
the influences in the actual show itself.

784
00:37:48.599 --> 00:37:53.639
But she wakes up in this sort of really dismal, you know, crappy

785
00:37:53.639 --> 00:37:56.219
old, flat, full of crap everywhere.

786
00:37:57.119 --> 00:37:59.519
Christmas Day is basically a Game of Thrones marathon.

787
00:37:59.579 --> 00:38:00.659
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

788
00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:02.760
But she's decided to get together with someone.

789
00:38:02.820 --> 00:38:03.780
Like I think it's nice.

790
00:38:03.840 --> 00:38:07.500
I also, was she also, was it not necessarily that she was going to

791
00:38:07.500 --> 00:38:10.199
be the next companion, but this was, I've heard that this is

792
00:38:10.199 --> 00:38:14.400
Stephen Moffat kind of trialling an idea for what the companion

793
00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:15.840
after Clara could be.

794
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:19.320
And I think that there was a point in time. whether or not it was

795
00:38:19.320 --> 00:38:23.219
going to be the same actress playing Shona that we meet, like

796
00:38:23.219 --> 00:38:25.800
again, at the start of the next season for it with a different, you

797
00:38:25.800 --> 00:38:28.619
know, which could be nice because she's only got this memory of

798
00:38:28.619 --> 00:38:32.099
the doctor in her dream and then, like, that could work. kind of

799
00:38:32.099 --> 00:38:32.820
partners in crime.

800
00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:34.320
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

801
00:38:34.380 --> 00:38:37.440
But obviously we end up getting Bill a few years later, which is

802
00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:37.679
great.

803
00:38:37.739 --> 00:38:38.639
But like, yeah.

804
00:38:38.699 --> 00:38:40.019
Shona is great though.

805
00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:41.699
I mean, she's superb character.

806
00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:50.280
Yeah In the nightmare scene.

807
00:38:50.340 --> 00:38:54.659
I loved Murray's soundtrack where it goes from like this sort of

808
00:38:54.659 --> 00:38:57.780
like little idyllic string passage and then it just like rises and

809
00:38:57.780 --> 00:38:59.820
rises and becomes more and more uncomfortable.

810
00:38:59.880 --> 00:39:00.900
I don't know.

811
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:02.940
Like, I think Murray's work is often really great.

812
00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:06.840
I understand the criticism sometimes that it's overbearing, but in

813
00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:10.320
those moments, I was like, 0 my god, this is like so good.

814
00:39:10.380 --> 00:39:12.840
Like that where she's wiping the chalk.

815
00:39:12.900 --> 00:39:16.260
Yeah, yeah. a minute or 2 of just this music kind of souring.

816
00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:19.079
Like it's the same piece of music that just sours as it goes along

817
00:39:19.079 --> 00:39:20.280
and I feel it's so good.

818
00:39:20.340 --> 00:39:23.519
Well, we're going to have Murray back and I think that...

819
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:24.960
And Christmas Day episodes.

820
00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:25.980
Oh my gosh.

821
00:39:26.039 --> 00:39:27.840
It's gonna be something. shooters first.

822
00:39:27.900 --> 00:39:28.380
Yeah.

823
00:39:28.440 --> 00:39:29.039
So exciting.

824
00:39:29.099 --> 00:39:31.860
Another influence that just occurred to me with what you were

825
00:39:31.860 --> 00:39:35.639
saying, Max, about the sort of soundtrack of the Dreamscape is

826
00:39:35.639 --> 00:39:38.639
episode of Futurama called The Sting.

827
00:39:38.699 --> 00:39:39.300
Yes.

828
00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:42.900
Yeah, where Leila has an induced dream state.

829
00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:47.699
Because I was just thinking when Clara's in her fantasy slash

830
00:39:47.699 --> 00:39:52.619
nightmare, the way the doctor talks to her is to tell her exactly

831
00:39:52.619 --> 00:39:57.960
what is happening to her, you know, and there's a bit towards the

832
00:39:57.960 --> 00:40:00.780
end of the sting where Fryer is trying to coax Leila out of a

833
00:40:00.780 --> 00:40:01.079
dream.

834
00:40:01.079 --> 00:40:04.800
And he kind of has the same thing, but of course it's more comedic

835
00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:08.579
because he's like, you can't just lay in bed waiting to die.

836
00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:09.780
Bed sores hurt.

837
00:40:11.340 --> 00:40:15.000
But what's happening is she's she's in bed and she's not waking

838
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:15.179
up.

839
00:40:15.239 --> 00:40:18.599
And that is one of the most affecting episodes of Futurama.

840
00:40:18.659 --> 00:40:21.360
Like, I think there's sort of 5 universally agreed episodes of

841
00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:23.280
Futurama where people are like, I was in tears.

842
00:40:23.340 --> 00:40:29.159
And for me in this episode, the moment I start bawling is when

843
00:40:29.159 --> 00:40:31.139
daddy says he didn't save the world.

844
00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:32.159
He saved Clara.

845
00:40:32.219 --> 00:40:33.179
Yeah.

846
00:40:33.239 --> 00:40:34.619
Yeah, the world was just collateral.

847
00:40:34.679 --> 00:40:35.099
Yeah.

848
00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:39.659
You know, considering that this isn't Danny Pink.

849
00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:41.460
This is Clara's memory of him.

850
00:40:41.460 --> 00:40:45.840
Imagine carrying that around in your head and never vocalising it

851
00:40:45.840 --> 00:40:48.659
that she's like, he's dead because of me.

852
00:40:48.719 --> 00:40:54.239
But then for her subconscious to turn that into something heroic.

853
00:40:54.300 --> 00:40:57.840
It leads me to being incredibly disappointed next year.

854
00:40:57.900 --> 00:41:01.320
But we'll get to that I have to say that I just think he's Danny

855
00:41:01.380 --> 00:41:04.079
at this point because he's played by Samuel Anderson.

856
00:41:04.139 --> 00:41:06.059
He's on the tally like he was in the other episodes.

857
00:41:06.119 --> 00:41:10.619
And so I've just decided that it's him and that works well too

858
00:41:10.619 --> 00:41:13.619
because there's a moment where, you know, both the doctor and

859
00:41:13.619 --> 00:41:18.960
Danny are in some senses, imaginary things in her dream, like

860
00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:22.079
they're part of this dreamscape that's induced both of them are.

861
00:41:22.139 --> 00:41:26.699
And then both of them kind of agree to Danny's plan to save

862
00:41:26.699 --> 00:41:27.719
Clara.

863
00:41:27.780 --> 00:41:32.519
Like, the 2 of them kind of, yeah, both of them agree to do that.

864
00:41:32.579 --> 00:41:36.119
And so I think he has a degree of sort of independent life there

865
00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:39.000
which I think is a very Moffat thing as well.

866
00:41:39.059 --> 00:41:40.199
I think so.

867
00:41:40.260 --> 00:41:43.980
And I think also like the gorgeous, and I think it does now

868
00:41:43.980 --> 00:41:48.179
knowing where series 9 goes, obviously, in retrospect, the ending

869
00:41:48.179 --> 00:41:51.480
that we get to, which I still find really overwhelmingly like

870
00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:55.500
emotive with their agreement to keep on travelling.

871
00:41:55.559 --> 00:42:00.119
But it is so joyous in that moment because it does feel like Clara

872
00:42:00.119 --> 00:42:04.380
sort of being given permission, either by yourself or by Danny, to

873
00:42:04.380 --> 00:42:08.400
be able to live this life and to do what she loves to do, and

874
00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:12.300
where maybe we see next year, that sort of, I think that whole

875
00:42:12.300 --> 00:42:16.019
addictive, that whole thing that she's addicted to this and it's

876
00:42:16.019 --> 00:42:18.119
not as rosy as it feels.

877
00:42:18.179 --> 00:42:20.820
But it's Christmas day and she's reconciling with them and of

878
00:42:20.820 --> 00:42:24.239
course it feels like it feels like the best thing to do in the

879
00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:26.519
world because it is. the best thing to run away with a doctor.

880
00:42:26.579 --> 00:42:27.900
Yeah, it's the best thing you could do.

881
00:42:27.960 --> 00:42:31.800
We always say that Mothat reacts to the thing that he did most

882
00:42:31.800 --> 00:42:32.340
recently.

883
00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:35.880
And so by setting Clara up as someone who was torn between a home

884
00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:38.760
life and the doctor, next year, of course, and we see it in this

885
00:42:38.760 --> 00:42:41.519
episode, she's all in as being a companion and we'll see where

886
00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:41.880
that leads.

887
00:42:41.940 --> 00:42:44.099
She wants to become too much like the doctor.

888
00:42:44.159 --> 00:42:48.360
I think that's a really interesting angle to take that hasn't

889
00:42:48.360 --> 00:42:49.559
necessarily been done before.

890
00:42:49.619 --> 00:42:52.800
And I think it produces like a fantastic season of Doctor Who next

891
00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:55.800
year, personally, but I love the end of this story.

892
00:42:55.860 --> 00:42:58.440
Like it makes me cry like happy cry at the end.

893
00:42:58.500 --> 00:43:00.960
Like it feels in a weird, I don't know why I always think this.

894
00:43:01.019 --> 00:43:03.059
It feels a little bit like getting back with an X or something.

895
00:43:03.119 --> 00:43:06.480
There's a part of it that like there's the...

896
00:43:06.539 --> 00:43:08.940
I think maybe that comes with the acknowledgement that, okay, this

897
00:43:08.940 --> 00:43:12.599
person might damage me. down the line.

898
00:43:12.659 --> 00:43:14.519
But it's Christmas.

899
00:43:14.519 --> 00:43:18.659
And I get to see this person again and I'm just going to do it.

900
00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:20.280
I'm talking about the doctoral class.

901
00:43:20.340 --> 00:43:21.719
Yeah, well, both.

902
00:43:22.380 --> 00:43:22.739
I think.

903
00:43:22.860 --> 00:43:26.280
But that, like, yeah, that moment, and I think Peter Capoli's

904
00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:29.280
performance in that moment actually sort of sort of breaks my

905
00:43:29.280 --> 00:43:34.079
heart, just the simplicity of him just saying, come with end... so

906
00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:34.260
good.

907
00:43:34.320 --> 00:43:35.880
There's vulnerability there.

908
00:43:35.940 --> 00:43:39.059
Like, he doesn't know that she's going to say yes.

909
00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:41.460
But he really, really wants her to.

910
00:43:41.519 --> 00:43:42.480
Yeah.

911
00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:43.320
You know?

912
00:43:43.380 --> 00:43:46.679
And as you say, it's all in Capaldi's performance.

913
00:43:46.739 --> 00:43:51.539
Like he sort of pauses before he asks and, you know, yeah, the

914
00:43:51.539 --> 00:43:53.579
swagger goes because he's come in.

915
00:43:53.639 --> 00:43:55.980
He's like, okay, I'm taking off the bloody head crab again.

916
00:43:57.300 --> 00:43:58.980
Am I young?

917
00:43:59.039 --> 00:43:59.760
I have no idea.

918
00:43:59.820 --> 00:44:01.619
That's so sweet.

919
00:44:01.679 --> 00:44:03.900
I love the I've got no idea.

920
00:44:03.960 --> 00:44:06.420
And then he rushes to get a mirror for her to check if that she's

921
00:44:06.420 --> 00:44:09.960
young. because that whole thing of him not seeing age is kind of a

922
00:44:09.960 --> 00:44:13.500
joke until that moment where it feels so like such a beautiful

923
00:44:13.500 --> 00:44:18.300
sentiment of how little how little he sees that despite, you

924
00:44:18.300 --> 00:44:18.719
know?

925
00:44:19.019 --> 00:44:22.079
I think there's something really interesting about Moffat's

926
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:26.039
decision to just retain that ending scene and then add another

927
00:44:26.039 --> 00:44:26.880
dream onto it.

928
00:44:26.940 --> 00:44:29.699
I think it's absolutely the right thing to do.

929
00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:36.059
And seeing what that scene would have been like if this is where

930
00:44:36.059 --> 00:44:37.260
Jenna leaves the show.

931
00:44:37.320 --> 00:44:39.539
This is what we would have seen.

932
00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:42.179
And I think that seems really good.

933
00:44:44.099 --> 00:44:47.760
But I'm glad it's not where we land.

934
00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:50.340
I'm glad it didn't end with like terrible old mate.

935
00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:51.239
Terrible ageing.

936
00:44:51.300 --> 00:44:52.980
You know, like an old lake up.

937
00:44:52.980 --> 00:44:54.420
Jenna without makeup.

938
00:44:55.559 --> 00:44:58.860
Astonishing how much she looks like Grandma Etta, actually.

939
00:44:59.639 --> 00:45:03.719
See, I actually think the makeup's really good.

940
00:45:03.780 --> 00:45:06.900
I think where it falls down is Jenna doesn't know how to do an old

941
00:45:06.900 --> 00:45:07.380
voice.

942
00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:08.340
Right.

943
00:45:08.519 --> 00:45:10.500
Look, that's just my opinion.

944
00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:12.960
But also the way it's shot is we're meant to not know until she

945
00:45:12.960 --> 00:45:15.539
switches on the lamp and it's like, no, we can totally see like

946
00:45:15.539 --> 00:45:16.980
she's gray haired or what have you.

947
00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:21.719
But yeah, like, the listeners may not know that originally that

948
00:45:21.719 --> 00:45:25.559
was the end and that is how Jenna was going to be written out.

949
00:45:25.619 --> 00:45:28.320
And, you know, it's interesting. unique.

950
00:45:28.380 --> 00:45:33.960
And I think what's lovely is even though, you know, she says, well

951
00:45:33.960 --> 00:45:36.659
it's actually the doctor says Danny was a tough act to follow.

952
00:45:36.780 --> 00:45:38.699
No, you know, no one could live up to Danny.

953
00:45:38.760 --> 00:45:40.920
She's travelled, she's taught.

954
00:45:40.980 --> 00:45:44.280
She's had a fun life, she's enjoyed herself.

955
00:45:44.340 --> 00:45:47.099
And I think it sends 2 powerful messages.

956
00:45:47.159 --> 00:45:53.400
It's A, you know, she did get on with life in a way, but also B

957
00:45:53.400 --> 00:45:57.480
just because she didn't fall in love again.

958
00:45:57.539 --> 00:45:58.860
It wasn't a wasted life.

959
00:45:58.920 --> 00:45:59.699
Yeah.

960
00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:01.500
Yeah, I thought that was good.

961
00:46:01.559 --> 00:46:04.079
And I liked the, you know, the fact that she'd had all these

962
00:46:04.079 --> 00:46:06.960
regrets, which she was really happy about because it did mean that

963
00:46:06.960 --> 00:46:10.679
she, you know, had sex with a lot of people.

964
00:46:10.739 --> 00:46:11.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

965
00:46:11.519 --> 00:46:12.179
No, absolutely.

966
00:46:12.420 --> 00:46:17.099
I thought the moment in that scene that really landed for me.

967
00:46:17.159 --> 00:46:21.300
And again, when the Christmas cracker comes out, I'm there going

968
00:46:21.300 --> 00:46:22.440
are you going to do this?

969
00:46:22.500 --> 00:46:24.059
Are you going to do this?

970
00:46:24.059 --> 00:46:27.000
and you have the doctor helping her?

971
00:46:27.059 --> 00:46:29.519
to open the Christmas cracker.

972
00:46:29.579 --> 00:46:33.480
Just like in time of the doctor, which is so perfect.

973
00:46:33.599 --> 00:46:36.659
And that was where I kind of lost it a bit.

974
00:46:36.719 --> 00:46:37.199
Yeah.

975
00:46:37.260 --> 00:46:39.599
Yeah, it is so sweet.

976
00:46:39.719 --> 00:46:43.320
Yeah, and with the whole, like, he doesn't know she's gotten old

977
00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:44.639
and he doesn't know she's still young.

978
00:46:44.699 --> 00:46:47.940
It throws a new complexion on all those remarks about her

979
00:46:47.940 --> 00:46:51.239
appearance over the previous 12 episodes.

980
00:46:51.300 --> 00:46:55.440
And it's a nice It's a nice ending to that because, you know

981
00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:58.079
something you said all the way through, Nathan is, because she's

982
00:46:58.079 --> 00:47:00.599
not upset by it, it's okay.

983
00:47:00.659 --> 00:47:05.760
But it adds a new dimension to he genuinely doesn't know he's

984
00:47:05.760 --> 00:47:06.719
being insulting.

985
00:47:06.780 --> 00:47:07.739
Yeah.

986
00:47:07.739 --> 00:47:13.139
You know, he's like, he's genuinely confused by the 3 mirrors and

987
00:47:13.139 --> 00:47:15.179
it's like, is it because her head's wide?

988
00:47:15.239 --> 00:47:16.079
don't know.

989
00:47:16.199 --> 00:47:20.159
I always read it like that because this is the man that can't tell

990
00:47:20.159 --> 00:47:22.559
that Amy's pregnant. his choice.

991
00:47:22.619 --> 00:47:24.719
He doesn't know what that beautiful woman, probably.

992
00:47:24.780 --> 00:47:25.380
Yeah, yeah.

993
00:47:25.440 --> 00:47:26.579
All the way back.

994
00:47:26.699 --> 00:47:29.880
Although it is kind of more fun if he does know he's being

995
00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:30.420
insulted.

996
00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:33.780
I mean that largely ends at this point.

997
00:47:33.840 --> 00:47:39.420
So this is very, definitely kind of the arc finale for the

998
00:47:39.420 --> 00:47:43.260
doctor's character and it works just tremendously well, I think.

999
00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:46.079
Because the next time we see him, he's, you know, rolling in on a

1000
00:47:46.079 --> 00:47:49.079
tank. an electric guitar, which I love.

1001
00:47:49.139 --> 00:47:53.760
Yeah, I think without last Christmas, that those 2 versions of the

1002
00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:55.079
character would feel completely different.

1003
00:47:55.139 --> 00:47:57.659
But I think last Christmas is a necessary stepping point.

1004
00:47:57.659 --> 00:48:01.019
And you can sort of imagine how he ends up riding in on a tank

1005
00:48:01.019 --> 00:48:05.579
after like him just ecstatically happy running off with Clara and

1006
00:48:05.579 --> 00:48:08.519
his night on the sleigh, like he's had such a important night for

1007
00:48:08.519 --> 00:48:08.940
him.

1008
00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:10.139
Yeah, you know.

1009
00:48:34.199 --> 00:48:35.760
Well, that's all the time we have for now.

1010
00:48:35.880 --> 00:48:38.940
We'll be back later this year to talk about Series 9.

1011
00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:42.780
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1012
00:48:42.780 --> 00:48:46.260
and you can keep up with us on our website, FlightTorEntirety.com

1013
00:48:46.260 --> 00:48:48.900
where you'll find links to our accounts on Facebook, Twitter, and

1014
00:48:48.900 --> 00:48:53.039
Mastodon, as well as links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody

1015
00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:56.940
interterra, maximum power, and untitled Star Trek Project.

1016
00:48:57.179 --> 00:49:01.860
Until next time, remember that the big problem in telling reality

1017
00:49:01.860 --> 00:49:05.340
and podcasting apart is that they're both ridiculous.

1018
00:49:05.400 --> 00:49:06.960
Thank you very much for listening.

1019
00:49:07.019 --> 00:49:09.179
Merry Christmas and good night.

1020
00:49:09.239 --> 00:49:10.199
Sleep well.

1021
00:49:10.260 --> 00:49:11.519
Happy holidays.

1022
00:49:11.579 --> 00:49:13.920
And God bless us, Mary gentlemen.

1023
00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:16.679
Haroon, Haroon.

1024
00:49:16.739 --> 00:49:17.400
Haroon.

1025
00:49:26.460 --> 00:49:29.699
That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottley, Max

1026
00:49:29.699 --> 00:49:31.739
Jelbart, Brendan Jones, and Peter Griffiths.

1027
00:49:31.800 --> 00:49:33.780
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1028
00:49:33.840 --> 00:49:37.019
This episode, the Tangerine in the Window, was recorded on the

1029
00:49:37.019 --> 00:49:40.380
17th of June 2023 and released on the 25th of July.

1030
00:49:43.440 --> 00:49:46.019
Well, there's no rest for the wicked, and so we'll be recording

1031
00:49:46.019 --> 00:49:49.800
our episode on the magician's apprentice this weekend, and we'll

1032
00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:52.079
start releasing our coverage of series 9 in the spring.

1033
00:49:52.139 --> 00:49:55.679
Or the autumn if you live on the top half of the planet.

1034
00:49:55.739 --> 00:49:56.940
We'll see you then.

1035
00:49:58.679 --> 00:50:01.079
I think maybe out.

1036
00:50:01.139 --> 00:50:05.280
I think maybe the discussion of old Lady Clara might be a good

1037
00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:05.519
out.

1038
00:50:05.519 --> 00:50:07.079
Might be the place to end it.

1039
00:50:07.139 --> 00:50:10.739
You know, it takes some rearranging.

1040
00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:13.019
I think after that we just went dream crabs and guest cast.

1041
00:50:13.079 --> 00:50:14.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1042
00:50:14.519 --> 00:50:16.860
And they were things that should have gone in earlier I think.

1043
00:50:16.920 --> 00:50:18.179
Yeah, I think you're right.

1044
00:50:18.239 --> 00:50:20.940
But I derailed things by talking about the dream crabs too early.

1045
00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:22.500
Oh, they're so good though.

1046
00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:23.280
They're great.

1047
00:50:23.340 --> 00:50:23.639
Yeah.

1048
00:50:23.699 --> 00:50:24.300
Great.

1049
00:50:24.300 --> 00:50:28.380
I don't think that Michael Trouton look alike is fat enough.

1050
00:50:28.500 --> 00:50:33.659
I was looking, like I was checking to see, is there a fat one and

1051
00:50:33.659 --> 00:50:37.619
like a short one and stuff like that, and I don't think that

1052
00:50:37.619 --> 00:50:42.119
because there's one guy who gets credited as sleeper or something

1053
00:50:42.119 --> 00:50:42.480
I think.

1054
00:50:42.539 --> 00:50:43.860
Trout and Dream Crab.

1055
00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:45.539
Yeah, yeah, Trout Dream Camp.

1056
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:47.519
It's probably Paul Casey.

1057
00:50:47.579 --> 00:50:48.599
Probably.

1058
00:50:48.659 --> 00:50:49.860
He's very tiny though.

1059
00:50:50.159 --> 00:50:52.440
What's the what's the name of that?

1060
00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:53.340
Paul Willis?

1061
00:50:53.400 --> 00:50:54.000
Is that his name?

1062
00:50:54.059 --> 00:50:58.079
Paul Wilmshurst So he did Mummy and Kill the Moon.

1063
00:50:58.139 --> 00:51:00.719
He's so, like, this is great, and he doesn't come back, right?

1064
00:51:00.780 --> 00:51:04.199
No, that's it. all the directors that Russell and Moth that rate

1065
00:51:04.199 --> 00:51:05.639
because they're back to the Christmas special.

1066
00:51:05.699 --> 00:51:06.780
Yeah, yeah.

1067
00:51:06.780 --> 00:51:08.039
Like Metstein?

1068
00:51:08.219 --> 00:51:09.480
Did Metstein do a Christmas special?

1069
00:51:09.539 --> 00:51:10.800
No.

1070
00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:11.760
Jamie Payne.

1071
00:51:11.820 --> 00:51:12.780
Jamie Payne.

1072
00:51:12.840 --> 00:51:13.019
Okay.

1073
00:51:13.079 --> 00:51:14.880
After his sterling efforts on Hyde.

1074
00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:19.679
I thought Saw Met scene did Dr. Widow in the wardrobe.

1075
00:51:19.739 --> 00:51:21.300
No, not Dr. Widow on the Wardrobe.

1076
00:51:21.360 --> 00:51:22.199
That's Farron Blackburn.

1077
00:51:22.260 --> 00:51:22.980
I beg your pardon?

1078
00:51:23.039 --> 00:51:23.639
The snowman.

1079
00:51:24.059 --> 00:51:26.219
I think he did do this now.

1080
00:51:26.280 --> 00:51:27.840
Yeah, Matt Steve does the cement.

1081
00:51:27.900 --> 00:51:28.800
Yeah, yeah, he does.

1082
00:51:28.860 --> 00:51:31.320
But yeah, this is shot so well.

1083
00:51:31.380 --> 00:51:34.679
I love that that scene with the toys.

1084
00:51:36.360 --> 00:51:38.280
The slinky's coming.

1085
00:51:38.340 --> 00:51:41.880
That was just, which is obviously a great visual gag, but it's

1086
00:51:41.880 --> 00:51:45.599
also shot with such conviction and like the music that music cue

1087
00:51:45.599 --> 00:51:46.019
over it.

1088
00:51:46.079 --> 00:51:46.920
It's really good.

1089
00:51:46.980 --> 00:51:50.280
It's really good What fun?

1090
00:51:50.340 --> 00:51:51.239
All right.

1091
00:51:51.300 --> 00:51:52.320
I think I think we're done.

1092
00:51:52.380 --> 00:51:55.199
Yeah, I have one, I have one more thing about fame, I say, and we

1093
00:51:55.199 --> 00:51:57.599
don't necessarily need to include this, but we've most recently

1094
00:51:57.599 --> 00:52:02.460
seen her in Andor as resistant cell leader, Velsartha.

1095
00:52:02.519 --> 00:52:04.559
Oh my god, she is too.

1096
00:52:04.679 --> 00:52:06.480
Oh, wow.

1097
00:52:06.539 --> 00:52:08.219
Have you seen Andor?

1098
00:52:08.280 --> 00:52:11.519
I'm not a Star Wars guy, but Andor is so great.

1099
00:52:11.639 --> 00:52:15.000
It's really Blake 7, which is a reason.

1100
00:52:15.059 --> 00:52:18.179
Blake 7 only with better writing and better performances.

1101
00:52:18.300 --> 00:52:19.500
Yeah.

1102
00:52:19.500 --> 00:52:23.940
And Corrison, things set on Corrison, which is made out of pixels

1103
00:52:23.940 --> 00:52:25.199
in the prequels.

1104
00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:29.340
It seems to be made out of concrete in Andor, it's incredible. your

1105
00:52:29.340 --> 00:52:30.119
maximum power.

1106
00:52:31.019 --> 00:52:35.699
Yeah, well, the last thing I watched was Ultraworld, right?

1107
00:52:37.500 --> 00:52:39.300
I need to go watch that.

1108
00:52:39.360 --> 00:52:40.860
I need to go watch that now.

1109
00:52:40.920 --> 00:52:41.940
Yeah, you're gonna do that.

1110
00:52:42.780 --> 00:52:44.340
All right.

1111
00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:46.320
Well, we'll leave you to it then in that case.

1112
00:52:46.380 --> 00:52:47.159
Go and watch it.

1113
00:52:47.219 --> 00:52:52.199
See, you know that Tarrant and Dana bone in that one.

1114
00:52:52.260 --> 00:52:54.179
Just a human meeting ritual.

1115
00:52:55.079 --> 00:52:57.420
What's she doing to his nose?

1116
00:52:57.599 --> 00:52:59.760
I was trying to work out.

1117
00:52:59.820 --> 00:53:03.059
Is anyone, so 2 of them shave their heads and the other one

1118
00:53:03.059 --> 00:53:03.780
refused to.

1119
00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:04.739
Really?

1120
00:53:04.739 --> 00:53:05.880
You didn't need to, did he?

1121
00:53:05.940 --> 00:53:08.159
Well, no, but his hair looked like a wig.

1122
00:53:08.219 --> 00:53:10.860
I thought he'd put like a circular wig on.

1123
00:53:10.920 --> 00:53:11.760
Into minor.

1124
00:53:11.820 --> 00:53:13.260
It's Picard hair.

1125
00:53:13.320 --> 00:53:14.280
It's so bad.

1126
00:53:14.519 --> 00:53:18.179
Like, like, it grows back.

1127
00:53:18.239 --> 00:53:20.820
I don't like I don't know what...

1128
00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:24.900
Maybe had something next on next week or something, next.

1129
00:53:24.960 --> 00:53:25.320
Yeah.

1130
00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:29.159
Maybe he said, I'm not shaving my head for this program.

1131
00:53:29.219 --> 00:53:33.960
Well, there's that old story about the 1st episode of Hitchhiker's

1132
00:53:33.960 --> 00:53:34.800
Guide to the Galaxy.

1133
00:53:34.860 --> 00:53:38.460
Like, because they were shooting it as a pilot, even though the

1134
00:53:38.460 --> 00:53:40.380
series had been commissioned, but it was this weird thing.

1135
00:53:40.440 --> 00:53:42.840
Basically, the pilot in the series were shot a while apart.

1136
00:53:42.900 --> 00:53:46.980
And the pilot, the location work was done, I think, 2 months

1137
00:53:46.980 --> 00:53:47.880
before the studios.

1138
00:53:48.119 --> 00:53:52.679
So, um, pretty much what's his name?

1139
00:53:53.159 --> 00:53:55.079
Simon Jones.

1140
00:53:55.139 --> 00:53:56.639
Arthur Dent.

1141
00:53:56.699 --> 00:53:59.219
Goes off to do another show and they're like, you need to cut your

1142
00:53:59.219 --> 00:53:59.400
hair.

1143
00:53:59.400 --> 00:54:01.019
And he's like, no, no, no, I've got this.

1144
00:54:01.079 --> 00:54:01.739
I've got this thing.

1145
00:54:01.800 --> 00:54:04.199
I'm not allowed to cut my hair or you have to cut it to the same

1146
00:54:04.199 --> 00:54:04.500
leg.

1147
00:54:04.559 --> 00:54:05.579
No, no, no, we're cutting your hair.

1148
00:54:05.639 --> 00:54:08.400
And he's like, Okay, I've warned you.

1149
00:54:08.880 --> 00:54:10.920
No, he does the job.

1150
00:54:10.980 --> 00:54:11.639
They cut his hair.

1151
00:54:11.760 --> 00:54:17.340
So for the for the studio scenes of the 1st episode, he has a

1152
00:54:17.340 --> 00:54:20.280
partial wig that was paid for by the other production.

1153
00:54:20.340 --> 00:54:23.219
Well, what about Do you remember Henry Cavell?

1154
00:54:23.280 --> 00:54:26.039
Henry Cavell's fake upper lip.

1155
00:54:26.099 --> 00:54:26.820
Did you ever see that?

1156
00:54:26.880 --> 00:54:29.579
Jesus Christ, that was bad.

1157
00:54:29.639 --> 00:54:33.179
Yeah, because whoever does Mission Impressible wouldn't let him

1158
00:54:33.179 --> 00:54:34.260
shave his moustache.

1159
00:54:34.320 --> 00:54:36.300
Yeah, so he had to wear...

1160
00:54:36.300 --> 00:54:39.000
How long does it take to grow a moustache, for God's sake.

1161
00:54:39.119 --> 00:54:40.980
I mean, yeah.

1162
00:54:40.980 --> 00:54:45.000
Maybe he was shooting both at once.

1163
00:54:45.059 --> 00:54:45.539
I don't.

1164
00:54:45.539 --> 00:54:46.619
I think it was...

1165
00:54:46.619 --> 00:54:48.300
Cavil, you've seen how hair he is.

1166
00:54:48.360 --> 00:54:49.440
Yeah, he is.

1167
00:54:49.500 --> 00:54:50.820
Yeah.

1168
00:54:50.820 --> 00:54:51.780
Yeah.

1169
00:54:51.840 --> 00:54:53.519
Plenty of times.

1170
00:54:55.320 --> 00:54:56.880
All right.

1171
00:54:56.940 --> 00:54:58.380
We'll leave you to it. was fun.

1172
00:54:58.440 --> 00:55:00.179
Give everyone my love tonight.

1173
00:55:00.239 --> 00:55:00.780
I will.

1174
00:55:00.780 --> 00:55:01.139
I will.

1175
00:55:01.199 --> 00:55:02.340
No lovely to see you.

1176
00:55:02.400 --> 00:55:03.360
Good to see you, mate.

1177
00:55:03.420 --> 00:55:04.199
Good to see you, Peter.

1178
00:55:04.260 --> 00:55:07.440
Bye, Nathan. send me the audio.

1179
00:55:07.500 --> 00:55:08.219
Send me the audio.

1180
00:55:09.420 --> 00:55:11.880
Okay, and stopping.