WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:42:07 1 00:00:40.380 --> 00:00:49.500 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast that never escaped the Matrix back in December 1986. 2 00:00:50.039 --> 00:00:51.119 I'm Nathan. 3 00:00:51.179 --> 00:00:52.439 I'm Brendan. 4 00:00:52.500 --> 00:00:53.880 I'm Max. 5 00:00:53.939 --> 00:00:54.600 I'm Peter. 6 00:00:54.659 --> 00:00:56.579 Well, the moon's an egg. 7 00:00:56.640 --> 00:01:06.780 The word for world is forest, and mere weeks ago, our sadly Miss Great Aunt Dulcie was advancing on us menacingly with a cyber gun, but is Santa really real now? 8 00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:10.379 Let's find out, as we discuss, last Christmas. 9 00:01:28.500 --> 00:01:45.780 We talked a little bit, I think, last time about Santa's magical powers to intervene in the closing credits, and I guess this episode has, unlike most Christmas specials, a proper job to do in the story of the program. 10 00:01:46.319 --> 00:01:58.079 Well, I think it's interesting because it's the 1st instance of Christmas special being sort of a denouement to a season in a way, obviously because of its broadcast, like it's right after series eight. 11 00:01:58.140 --> 00:01:59.760 It's only like a few weeks after. 12 00:01:59.819 --> 00:02:07.439 And I think it's interesting because of the way that death in heaven ends and it ends in this quite downbeat fashion. 13 00:02:07.500 --> 00:02:14.879 I mean, obviously we're used to Russell T. Davis cliffhanger endings that kind of take away some of the emotional heft that you're left with. 14 00:02:14.939 --> 00:02:18.539 But I think in series 8, you're sort of really sitting with that at the end. 15 00:02:18.599 --> 00:02:25.680 As we come into last Christmas, there is this sense that this feels like kind of the proper ending to series 8 in a certain way. 16 00:02:25.740 --> 00:02:26.099 Yeah. 17 00:02:26.159 --> 00:02:31.800 And it does feel of a piece with series 8 because it has those same dark qualities that the series did. 18 00:02:31.860 --> 00:02:34.259 I don't think we've seen a Christmas special this dark before. 19 00:02:34.319 --> 00:02:34.979 Yeah. 20 00:02:34.979 --> 00:02:38.939 Yeah, it really struck me that it is kind of a remake of alien. 21 00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:42.000 I mean, it's even in the in dialogue. 22 00:02:42.659 --> 00:02:48.900 Have we ever had an instance where someone has written down their list of homages and then shown it to us on speaker. 23 00:02:50.340 --> 00:02:52.139 Forgive day. 24 00:02:53.219 --> 00:02:55.680 So I like dad coming to visit. 25 00:02:55.740 --> 00:02:56.939 Is that another sly reference? 26 00:02:57.000 --> 00:02:58.199 Capaldi's age. 27 00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:01.919 Oh yeah, because he's your space dad. 28 00:03:03.120 --> 00:03:18.060 I do love how this wears its movie influences on its sleeve because, you know, we had that with Voyage of the Dan, which is very clearly a night to remember and the Poseidon adventure and all these kind of films. 29 00:03:18.120 --> 00:03:32.460 And I think, though, with Alien, if you're going to do that with a science fiction thing, there is a greater chance that the people at home have seen it and that someone has already said, oh, it's kind of like a face hugger. 30 00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:36.719 But I mean, Moffatt does 2 things, doesn't he? 31 00:03:36.780 --> 00:03:43.800 He gets a really brilliant line out of it with Capaldi saying that we're racist and that's why aliens keep invading us all the time. 32 00:03:44.039 --> 00:03:56.159 But he also kind of gets to demonstrate why Doctor Who is better than that kind of science fiction because these aren't just sort of monsters that lay eggs in your stomach or anything like that. 33 00:03:56.219 --> 00:03:58.919 They're monsters that keep you in a dream state. 34 00:03:58.979 --> 00:04:12.659 And so they actually have a direct effect on how the narrative goes because we're being told this whole thing inside the dreams and it's a dream state that's being created by the dream crabs. 35 00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:22.259 So in a way, you know, Moffat has created a conceptual monster that's a little bit more interesting than what a normal science fiction show would do. 36 00:04:22.319 --> 00:04:23.819 Never done that before, has it? 37 00:04:23.879 --> 00:04:24.660 No, that's right. 38 00:04:24.779 --> 00:04:27.360 They're all just men in rubber suits. 39 00:04:27.779 --> 00:04:29.879 It's true, isn't it? 40 00:04:29.939 --> 00:04:42.540 Because I think there's an explicit parallel being set up between having Santa, who is another kind of fantastic hero, like the doctor is, and the dream crabs, which just kind of sit there sponging off imagination rubbed and providing it. 41 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:45.959 And so I wondered if they were an analogue for us at home on Christmas. 42 00:04:47.939 --> 00:05:03.420 Well, it's nice as well because there is like, this isn't necessarily, I think, as explicit as alien or inception, but there's a lovely like parallel with the dream crabs to like the nightmare before Christmas and, you know, like it sort of feels quite nice. 43 00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:10.740 It feels like just it makes sense that these are creatures that live off dreams and that kind of stuff, particularly combined with this Christmas setting. 44 00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:15.180 And I think the effect of that is that the whole thing feels really Christmassy. 45 00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:17.279 I mean, obviously we're at the we're at the North Pole. 46 00:05:17.339 --> 00:05:18.000 South Pole? 47 00:05:18.060 --> 00:05:19.560 No, we are at the North Pole, yeah. 48 00:05:19.620 --> 00:05:22.139 And obviously we've got some... 49 00:05:22.319 --> 00:05:25.500 It'll take another 3 years to get to the south. 50 00:05:26.939 --> 00:05:34.139 But like, I think it all contributes to a mood that is really evocative, which is, I think, why it works. 51 00:05:34.199 --> 00:05:42.480 A lot of why it works as well as it does, is that it all feels just like, even with its sort of madcap, different influences. 52 00:05:42.540 --> 00:05:44.579 Like it feels quite cohesive, I think. 53 00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:45.180 Yeah. 54 00:05:45.240 --> 00:05:48.600 Yeah, and it is Christmassy in a way that the others haven't been. 55 00:05:48.660 --> 00:05:51.779 I mean, this is his 5th Christmas special. 56 00:05:51.779 --> 00:05:54.899 And it's the 10th Christmas special, right? 57 00:05:54.959 --> 00:06:05.160 And, you know, there will come a time where the showrunner says, actually, we've got no ideas left for Christmas and we can't really be doing that anymore. 58 00:06:05.220 --> 00:06:07.920 But I think this. 59 00:06:07.980 --> 00:06:12.540 The 10th one ever is perhaps the most Christmassy of them all. 60 00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:18.000 And I think mostly it's because of Santa. 61 00:06:18.060 --> 00:06:31.259 So there's a real attempt because this episode has to rehabilitate the doctor and it kind of has to solve the problems left in Clara's life by series 8. 62 00:06:31.319 --> 00:06:39.779 And there's the scene at the end where the doctor gets to ride a sleigh in his 1st Christmas special. 63 00:06:39.779 --> 00:06:43.620 And Matt Smith got to do that in his 1st Christmas special. 64 00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:51.779 But Matt Smith sleigh was drawn by a shark, a flying shark, which that's so fantastic and maybe one of the best things ever. 65 00:06:51.839 --> 00:06:54.600 But this is actually Santa Slay. 66 00:06:54.660 --> 00:07:00.360 Like this is a much Christmassier version of Matt Smith's 1st Christmas special. 67 00:07:00.420 --> 00:07:03.480 Like, this is as Christmas as I think it's possible to get. 68 00:07:03.540 --> 00:07:08.399 There's also like there's something about Peter Capoldi's doctor as well that works at Christmas. 69 00:07:08.459 --> 00:07:11.879 Like, it's just, it's the, when Shona calls him the skeleton man. 70 00:07:11.939 --> 00:07:15.540 Like, like, there's, like, something about... 71 00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:17.100 Yeah, him and the hoodie. 72 00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:18.959 I just I love the hoodie as well, by the way. 73 00:07:19.019 --> 00:07:20.519 I'm not sure if this is the 1st hoodie. 74 00:07:20.579 --> 00:07:21.959 Yeah, it might be. 75 00:07:21.959 --> 00:07:22.860 Poodie combo. 76 00:07:22.920 --> 00:07:25.379 I was obsessed with Peter Capoli's outfit variation. 77 00:07:25.620 --> 00:07:31.920 But there's yeah, there's something about him and being a little grouchier, like a little surlier. 78 00:07:31.980 --> 00:07:37.139 There's something that works with the sort of, you know, the grump at Christmas just works really well. 79 00:07:37.199 --> 00:07:38.399 Ghost of Christmas presents. 80 00:07:38.459 --> 00:07:42.060 Yeah, I mean, he is having a ball at the end of it. 81 00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:50.100 He's having a really kind of uncomplicatedly childlike moment of joy after being a grumpy bastard all the way through. 82 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:53.879 And so that is every Christmas TV show. 83 00:07:53.939 --> 00:07:55.319 Every special has that. 84 00:07:55.379 --> 00:07:57.180 So he's kind of built for that, I think. 85 00:07:57.240 --> 00:07:57.899 Yeah. 86 00:07:57.959 --> 00:08:08.279 And, you know, his conversation with Santa about riding the sleigh is that universal experience of being an adult but also wanting to have fun. 87 00:08:08.339 --> 00:08:11.220 It's like Santa says, do you want to ride this layer? 88 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:15.480 The doctor's like, you're either representing my dying brain or my recovering brain. 89 00:08:15.540 --> 00:08:16.139 You're not real. 90 00:08:16.199 --> 00:08:18.240 And he's like, yeah, but do you want to do it anyway? 91 00:08:19.500 --> 00:08:26.519 And that allows him to have, I think, his 1st unguarded moment of happiness. 92 00:08:26.519 --> 00:08:29.819 And because Capaldi's such an amazing actor. 93 00:08:29.939 --> 00:08:38.519 It's when he says yippee IA that he sort of catches himself and realises, oh my god, I'm like, I'm, as you say, it's uncomplicated. 94 00:08:38.580 --> 00:08:41.340 There's no bravado, there's no pretence. 95 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:48.720 Like, say, there is with Robin Hood back in Robot of Sherwood, where he does have a few moments where he lets his guard down and immediately catches himself. 96 00:08:48.899 --> 00:08:53.460 He actually allows himself to experience the joy fully. 97 00:08:53.519 --> 00:09:01.559 And it's the beginning of turning the character into something more layered than he has been. 98 00:09:01.620 --> 00:09:05.399 Well, we said on Christmas Carol, which you're on, Max. 99 00:09:05.460 --> 00:09:15.240 It's amazing. back here together, that that was the 1st time that Matt Smith had seen his own performance go out and had known what the reception was and had kind of seen it in totality. 100 00:09:15.299 --> 00:09:17.159 He came back with a really confident performance. 101 00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:21.059 I think this is the 1st time that Capaldi's doctor is fully formed. 102 00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:22.980 They've kind of shorn off rough edges. 103 00:09:23.039 --> 00:09:25.860 He has seen himself that maybe it could do with a little bit of warming up. 104 00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:27.840 And so it's just here where he hits his stride, I think. 105 00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:43.259 That's what I was struck with watching it most recently, was just how this is where it starts to feel effortless, where you get that impression of Capaldi is the doctor, where it just feels like he's become him, like he, like there, it just, just seems to come out of him so naturally. 106 00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:51.899 And I think that is the 1st time that you really see, just in, in kind of that projection of warmth that you get actually the whole time, which, and it's there in series eight. 107 00:09:51.960 --> 00:10:01.320 It is there, but it's like how evidently warm he is with Clara, but then also he's starting to be warmer around supporting characters in the story as well. 108 00:10:01.379 --> 00:10:06.899 Like even though he makes that glib joke when he comes back in and said, sorry, are these all deleted all that? 109 00:10:06.960 --> 00:10:07.679 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 110 00:10:08.279 --> 00:10:18.120 Yeah, I was going to point that out too, because there is a note of regret in his voice that like, oh, I'm so sorry, I've trodden on your begonias. 111 00:10:18.179 --> 00:10:22.200 You know, it's kind of like he's kind of like, actually, that's probably, yeah, sorry. 112 00:10:22.259 --> 00:10:23.279 Anyway. 113 00:10:25.259 --> 00:10:34.500 I found myself really a bit baffled by death in heaven and concluding that it doesn't work as the end to an arc. 114 00:10:34.559 --> 00:10:37.799 But obviously that's wrong. isn't it? 115 00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:40.259 Because that was never intended to be the end of an arc. 116 00:10:40.259 --> 00:10:50.100 And the end of the arc is here, and we end up at the end of this episode, in the same place that we ended Matt Smith's 1st season as well. 117 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:57.059 So our doctor is back in a way I think maybe Stephen B was hoping for in flatline. 118 00:10:57.120 --> 00:11:01.500 I think here, absolutely, undoubtedly we have the doctor back. 119 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:19.740 And I think we also, in Capaldi's other 2 Christmas specials, that close series, The Husbands of River Song, and Twice Upon a Time, both work to address the fallout of some really quite horrific events that happen in the respective season finale. 120 00:11:19.799 --> 00:11:32.580 Dr. Mysterio obviously is an exception because it's one of those years where the doctor decides not to do anything that year, except for, you know, leave some school children in deadly danger after one of them gets dismembered. 121 00:11:32.820 --> 00:11:34.980 God, class is weird. 122 00:11:45.419 --> 00:11:51.600 I love that we get past that point where they acknowledge that they lie to each other within the 1st 10, 15 minutes. 123 00:11:51.659 --> 00:11:55.259 Like it's not, we don't prolong it for any longer than it needs to be like that. 124 00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:58.500 It's almost instantly addressed as soon as they're in peril. 125 00:11:58.500 --> 00:12:02.279 And it's obviously a way of getting out of that peril to some extent as well. 126 00:12:02.340 --> 00:12:10.320 The simplicity of that exchange where basically they both just admit, yeah, it just drops away from them as soon as they're in company with one another. 127 00:12:10.379 --> 00:12:17.820 But I think for Clara, it drops away right the moment she's on the TARDIS again, where she says, oh, you know, I miss that sound. 128 00:12:17.879 --> 00:12:20.399 You know, she's so happy to be here. 129 00:12:20.460 --> 00:12:29.940 When Santa appears on Clara's roof, that's almost identical to the doctor appearing just by mistake. 130 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:31.559 You know, it's the same thing. 131 00:12:31.620 --> 00:12:41.039 And when she says to Santa that she grew out of fairy tales, that's when the TARDIS appears to rescue her, really. 132 00:12:41.100 --> 00:12:43.320 And she's so excited to be back. 133 00:12:43.379 --> 00:12:44.820 She's so happy to see him. 134 00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:46.679 She wasn't expecting it. 135 00:12:46.740 --> 00:12:48.240 We thought that that was all I over. 136 00:12:48.299 --> 00:12:53.460 And although there is that thing that is finally explicitly resolved when they're in peril. 137 00:12:53.519 --> 00:12:55.980 She's so immediately happy to see him. 138 00:12:56.039 --> 00:12:59.820 Um, you know, which is kind of what we wanted, I think. 139 00:12:59.879 --> 00:13:02.519 She kind of assumes the companion role. 140 00:13:02.580 --> 00:13:12.840 Simon's made a point a few episodes ago, that he doesn't like it when companions don't travel with the doctor when the doctor just drops in and picks them up because it doesn't feel like you've got a cohesive team happening. 141 00:13:12.899 --> 00:13:22.500 I think Clara finally feels like a companion to the 12th doctor here, and a lot of it is because Capaldi has fine-tuned his performance and the writing has got it, and so it allows her to be that. 142 00:13:22.500 --> 00:13:24.899 It allows her rather than creating issues between them. 143 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:26.940 It allows her just to be a companion for him. 144 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:28.200 Yeah, absolutely. 145 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:34.320 Something I find so interesting about that rooftop scene is the visual language of it. 146 00:13:34.379 --> 00:13:37.080 So you've got the sleigh in one corner and that's crashed. 147 00:13:37.139 --> 00:13:44.100 And then in the other corner, if you imagine, we're sort of looking at this like a stage and the other corner is where the TARDIS appears, but it appears on an angle. 148 00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:54.600 And something that was established for the new series in Russell's era was if the TARDIS appears on an angle, there's something wrong. 149 00:13:54.659 --> 00:14:06.480 And I think we 1st see it in Rise of the Cybermen, and Graham Harper, I think it was, says on the commentary, that's something Russell and I discussed, if something's wrong with the Tatars, it is on an angle, and it appears on an angle here. 150 00:14:06.539 --> 00:14:08.039 Now it's not always true. 151 00:14:08.100 --> 00:14:16.980 Like, it appears on an angle in flatline, and it's actually a symbol of heroism, and obviously, I'm tardestop PNG as well, because they couldn't take it into the, um, into the tunnel. 152 00:14:17.039 --> 00:14:33.059 But even before that, when we're arriving in Clara's house, I didn't notice ever, before when I watched this, when we're arriving in Clara's house, we see a stair lift. which is foreshadowing the original ending, which we will talk about later. get to. 153 00:14:33.059 --> 00:14:33.600 Yeah. 154 00:14:33.779 --> 00:14:42.480 So we have Ian, who is Dan Starkey and Wolf, who is surprisingly hot for sad as Elf, I think. 155 00:14:42.539 --> 00:14:44.879 At Nathan McMullen. 156 00:14:44.940 --> 00:14:46.379 Fresh off misfits. 157 00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:47.639 Yes, yeah that's right. 158 00:14:47.700 --> 00:14:56.580 And Nick Frost, who is the last member of the main cast of spaced to appear for the 1st time in Doctor Who. 159 00:14:56.639 --> 00:14:58.559 He's perfect, isn't he? 160 00:14:58.620 --> 00:14:59.460 He's so funny. 161 00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:00.659 Yeah, yeah. 162 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:02.639 So, it's so well judged. 163 00:15:02.700 --> 00:15:06.480 Like, he's just like walking a fine line, the whole, the whole time. 164 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:15.539 And he's big and he's over the top, but he's also like, I think funniest when he's doing these like really tiny little moments, like, particularly like between the elves. 165 00:15:15.539 --> 00:15:17.820 And then when he's talking to Shona. 166 00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:20.580 And it says, oh, what is it? 167 00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:22.799 I've got 3 words for you, my little pony. 168 00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:25.620 It's so good. 169 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:26.759 He's fantastic. 170 00:15:26.820 --> 00:15:28.200 Especially, love. 171 00:15:28.259 --> 00:15:31.320 There are 522 million, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, children in the world. 172 00:15:31.379 --> 00:15:33.299 Obviously, I have a 2nd sledge. 173 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:42.480 Well, no, it's also that brilliant line about, you know, how do you fit all the presents in, bigger on the inside, and the elves give this amazing response, like, ooh, yeah, yeah. 174 00:15:42.539 --> 00:15:47.940 The elves are like 2 typical British teenagers. 175 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:52.440 Like they're like Lauren and Nicky Wortley on the Catherine Tate show. 176 00:15:52.500 --> 00:15:54.600 They're just goading on... 177 00:15:54.779 --> 00:15:59.580 They're just goading on whatever Bance is happening, you know what I mean? 178 00:15:59.639 --> 00:16:03.960 And I am almost 40 years old and I will never say Bance again. 179 00:16:04.019 --> 00:16:05.100 I apologise. 180 00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:08.039 Don't meet me come over there. 181 00:16:08.100 --> 00:16:09.899 It might be a little bit controversial. 182 00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:14.279 I do think that Nick Frost does a pretty good job and what a great surname for the role. 183 00:16:14.340 --> 00:16:15.059 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 184 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:19.620 But I think the episode kind of grinds to a halt with any scene incent. with Santa. 185 00:16:19.860 --> 00:16:24.299 Yeah, they go on too long and there's too much business. 186 00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:28.259 And I know that that's what makes it Christmassy, but it didn't quite feel clever enough. 187 00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:32.580 There was it was a little bit obvious, the kind of puns that were being thrown in. 188 00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:35.639 I just thought it could have come alive a little bit more controversy over. 189 00:16:35.700 --> 00:16:47.700 I think that's a Christmas day thing a little bit that you're allowed to, you're allowed to kind of pad it out and make it a bit silly and make it like, because I felt the same watching it like this morning where, you know, it's June. 190 00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:51.600 But like to think if it was Christmas day and you were a bit drunk. 191 00:16:51.659 --> 00:16:52.139 Yeah. 192 00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:57.720 Like, that's the stuff that you just don't particularly, like that sort of becomes part, you know, it's a part of it. 193 00:16:57.779 --> 00:17:01.620 And it's a kids show moment as well, which he's allowed to do. 194 00:17:01.740 --> 00:17:12.480 Like he's basically got aliens where people's brains are being dissolved by aliens and Santa and his sleigh and Rudolph and, you know, elves and stuff. 195 00:17:12.539 --> 00:17:16.980 Like, I just think that combination is so perfect and so Doctor Who. 196 00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:23.940 And I think there's a game he's playing with the audience, which is Santa real. 197 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:24.539 Yeah. 198 00:17:24.539 --> 00:17:28.619 And you can ever be too explicit about that. when you've got kids. 199 00:17:28.680 --> 00:17:29.700 Yeah, I was thinking. 200 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:32.220 So you can't be too exquisit about it in a kid's show. 201 00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:40.200 But the thing is that there was always the possibility that he would be real because the moon's an egg. 202 00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:57.240 And because this season of Doctor Who has absolutely gone and done some very, very strange and weird stuff that's well beyond the boundaries of what many fans can cope with and well beyond the boundaries of what the show has done before in the kind of real world. 203 00:17:57.299 --> 00:18:14.460 And because also, Moffatt compares the doctor to Santa Claus in the 1st televised Doctor Who that he ever writes, which is that final speech by Emma in Curse of Fatal Death, where he compares. 204 00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:15.180 Yeah. 205 00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:17.099 And in the 1st episode. 206 00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:18.480 Is it the 1st episode? 207 00:18:18.539 --> 00:18:21.839 No, but it is, it's in Father's Day, I think. 208 00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:25.680 Isn't Christopher Eccleston's Dr. Santa? 209 00:18:25.740 --> 00:18:27.900 Doesn't he sneak back in time and buy it? 210 00:18:28.019 --> 00:18:29.880 No, no, it's Dr. Dancers. 211 00:18:29.940 --> 00:18:30.660 It's Moffat. 212 00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:31.380 Dr. Dancers. 213 00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:32.460 It is Moffat. 214 00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:32.940 There you go. 215 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:34.859 Red bike when you were 12, right? 216 00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:37.799 So it's always been a thing. 217 00:18:37.859 --> 00:18:43.319 And let's not forget 11th hour where Amelia is praying to Santa. 218 00:18:43.380 --> 00:18:44.579 And the doctor of you. 219 00:18:47.339 --> 00:18:49.740 And Santa's brought her a bike. 220 00:18:50.579 --> 00:18:52.259 And a fish. 221 00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:56.099 The fish have fingers. 222 00:18:57.539 --> 00:19:01.500 So that's always been a really moffety thing. 223 00:19:01.559 --> 00:19:13.799 And this season has at least one episode, which is about how the doctor is a fictional hero like Robin Hood, and it makes Robin Hood real in the world of Doctor Who in order to kind of make that point. 224 00:19:13.859 --> 00:19:18.000 So there's just a possibility that there's a real Santa. 225 00:19:18.059 --> 00:19:32.279 I mean, remember, Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe has actual Santa comes along and that doesn't end up happening in the Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe, but he's just teaching on the edge of being part of the Doctor Who world. 226 00:19:32.339 --> 00:19:41.519 And so having him explain to Shona how he can be real, you know, if he feeds the magic carrots, and that's how they can fly, you know. 227 00:19:41.819 --> 00:19:45.900 And the doctor is being Santa and the doctor, the widow and the wardrobe. 228 00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:50.099 The caretaker who's providing all of those brilliant things for the kids who've come for Christmas. 229 00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:50.940 Yeah. 230 00:19:50.940 --> 00:20:02.579 I was struck this time by how clever Moffat is in terms of like threading that needle a lot of the time where it's sort of this like playfulness where, particularly because it's a kid's show, as you were saying. 231 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:15.539 I was a bit older when I was watching this, but if you were like 7 or 8 watching this, maybe, like you would be, you would be invested in what your favourite show was about to say about this guy that was meant to, you know, that delivered you presents the previous night. 232 00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:23.759 You know, like, I think he's being like, it's a really clever balance that he strikes, particularly because we get to that endpoint with the sleigh ride that we talked about before. 233 00:20:23.819 --> 00:20:30.359 I think that sort of Moffat coming to land on, No, of course, Santa's real, the doctor's real, and Santa's real. 234 00:20:30.420 --> 00:20:33.720 And it was me hoping all along just that Santa's a robot. 235 00:20:35.519 --> 00:20:51.599 In fact, it does the thing, and I haven't watched this or hadn't watched this for a while until I watched it yesterday, but I do remember that as we're looking out the window, I said to myself, there has to be some sign that Santa is still here. 236 00:20:51.660 --> 00:20:56.339 And there is, of course, there's the tangerine, which nobody likes. 237 00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:59.579 The last shot has the tangerine and the sound of sleigh bells. 238 00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:04.440 And obviously that's because Santa's real in our real world. 239 00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:07.680 Or, of course, because it's Moffat. 240 00:21:07.740 --> 00:21:09.240 It's a sign that they never wake up. 241 00:21:09.299 --> 00:21:10.559 Yeah, you know. 242 00:21:10.619 --> 00:21:14.700 Yeah, that's the inception dial. tangerine in the window. 243 00:21:14.759 --> 00:21:16.500 Talking about that. 244 00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:30.779 People who complain about the obviousness of Santa at Christmas and the obviousness of what Moffat is plundering and the rest of the story, you know, the thing and Alien and Miracle on 34th Street, all those things are listed on Shona's list. 245 00:21:30.839 --> 00:21:33.420 If you're going to do a Christmas Day special. 246 00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:36.779 I think going back to what you were saying earlier, it does need to be a little bit more obvious. 247 00:21:36.839 --> 00:21:38.519 Yeah, anything else. 248 00:21:38.579 --> 00:21:53.880 Yeah, Russell and Stephen, both sort of talk about this when they talk about Christmas specials, and their sort of consensus is there are a lot of people who only watch Doctor Who at Christmas because they're with the family. 249 00:21:53.940 --> 00:21:59.700 So having the Danny story come back in this, there is enough information in this to make sense of it. 250 00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:02.460 And Moffat has actually responded to that. 251 00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:10.079 He was asked by some by some interviewer, if he, you know, felt ashamed at plundering these things so obviously, you know, some sort of catty question. 252 00:22:10.140 --> 00:22:14.099 And he responded by saying, did alien apologise for ripping off the arc in space? 253 00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:15.960 Absolutely. 254 00:22:17.940 --> 00:22:32.460 And you know, there's also elements of the thing in this, especially when the flares at the end, but the thing rips off the thing from another world, which ripped off other horror and sci-fi stories before it, you know. 255 00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:33.900 Yeah, seeds of doing. 256 00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:38.220 Very good episode of the X-Files, you remember? 257 00:22:39.299 --> 00:22:43.259 I think we should only really complain about ripoffs. 258 00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:47.579 If it's not doing something well or new. 259 00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:51.359 And I think this does enough new things with its ingredients. 260 00:22:51.900 --> 00:23:04.079 One thing that I think might be a reference that is sort of overlooked is the Nightmare on Elm Street series, which Rachel Tellala worked on. 261 00:23:04.140 --> 00:23:06.420 Now, of course, Rachel doesn't direct this. 262 00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:07.920 Paul Wimshurst, I think. 263 00:23:07.980 --> 00:23:09.660 Yeah, doing an awesome job. 264 00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:11.220 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 265 00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:13.500 So Rachel directs Freddie's dead. 266 00:23:13.559 --> 00:23:18.359 The final nightmare, and she is also a producer on Nightmare on Elm Street 3 and 4. 267 00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:27.000 And in Nightmare on Elm Street 3, uh, character is pulled through a television, as happens to uh, one of the Trouton boys in this one. 268 00:23:27.299 --> 00:23:31.680 Those are those standard kind of horror tropes like poltergeists and stuff like that. 269 00:23:31.740 --> 00:23:33.660 If you're going to do something scary at Christmas. all the way. 270 00:23:33.720 --> 00:23:46.319 It's the moment to where the whole kind of attempt of the dream crabs to create a plausible reality breaks down and it's just like, oh, you know, forget it will just pull the guy into a television. 271 00:23:46.380 --> 00:23:47.940 They all know it's fake. 272 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:48.660 Let's do that. 273 00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:49.920 And that does kill him. 274 00:23:49.980 --> 00:23:51.359 Like he is actually dead. 275 00:23:51.420 --> 00:23:53.759 We don't see professor Albert waking up with the others. 276 00:23:53.819 --> 00:24:01.140 There's a really like, not funny, but I kind of laughed at Peter Capaldi's line or the 12th top this line of us, somewhere he's woken up dead. 277 00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:02.519 Yeah. 278 00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:05.819 Really, like, perfect. 279 00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:09.960 And what you were saying, Brendan, about, you know, if you're going to rip off, do it well. 280 00:24:10.019 --> 00:24:15.660 No one, I think, would argue that Stephen Mothad doesn't take this material and do really good things with it. 281 00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:19.259 He probably cleverer than the people who wrote the archetypal material. 282 00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:22.140 And so it's filled with those clever moffity things. 283 00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:28.859 The non-erasing blackboard and the fact that people just keep saying it's a long story because they don't actually have the backstory. 284 00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:30.779 Yeah, because it's not real. 285 00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:31.799 It's not a real situation. 286 00:24:31.859 --> 00:24:36.960 And the brilliant moment where he tricks Clara into saying it's a long story. 287 00:24:37.019 --> 00:24:38.640 It's so good. 288 00:24:38.700 --> 00:24:40.380 And she is really good there. 289 00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:41.579 She is. 290 00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:49.259 I mean, that's like another thing with in this episode that I adored was just being reminded of how fantastic Jenna Coleman is. 291 00:24:49.380 --> 00:25:02.519 And particularly the scene, which I guess will come to, but the scene that's Clara's sort of dream, or her nightmare, I suppose, her nightmare or dream, where the doctor sort of like intrudes in on it. 292 00:25:02.579 --> 00:25:05.759 And when he's trying to like convince her that this isn't real. 293 00:25:05.819 --> 00:25:14.579 And Jenna in that in that exchange is just like heartbreaking and she's just doing stuff with her eyes basically, but it's just like inflating them. 294 00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:15.779 Yeah, inflating them. 295 00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:16.799 How does he do it? 296 00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:23.519 That confirmed for me, even though I've had misgivings about Clara on and off, that the problem has never been Jana. 297 00:25:23.579 --> 00:25:24.359 No. no. 298 00:25:24.420 --> 00:25:25.200 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 299 00:25:25.259 --> 00:25:25.980 She's extraordinary. 300 00:25:26.099 --> 00:25:26.279 Yeah. 301 00:25:26.339 --> 00:25:27.000 Yeah. 302 00:25:27.059 --> 00:25:35.640 I mean, as we are recording, it's been announced this week that Bonnie Langford is going to appear in series 14. 303 00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:42.960 And I think we've said on the podcast before, there are similarities between Jenna and Bonnie in that. 304 00:25:43.019 --> 00:25:45.119 They both have these amazing careers. 305 00:25:45.180 --> 00:25:52.380 And also in Doctor Who, they weren't necessarily always given the best material, especially sort of early Clara. 306 00:25:52.440 --> 00:26:04.559 But it's kind of weird because this is, I think, the 1st time that Jenna Coleman has decided, No, I'd like to stay on longer and Stephen Moffatt's like, I'm not going to let you go because you're brilliant. 307 00:26:04.619 --> 00:26:11.460 And so starts giving her more material that allows her to really get her teeth into it. 308 00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:18.299 And even going back to that scene you were talking about earlier, Max, where they admit they were lying to each other. 309 00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:28.619 It's such an excellent scene which other actors may have done in a more overstated way. 310 00:26:28.680 --> 00:26:33.900 And that's not necessarily a criticism of how anyone else might have done it. 311 00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:35.039 There's certainly a place for that. 312 00:26:35.099 --> 00:26:43.559 But Peter and Jenna instead decide to play it all on their faces without becoming incredibly overwrought in the voices. 313 00:26:43.619 --> 00:26:57.059 I think possibly part of the reason that Jenna becomes so good as Clara is because she and Peter Capaldi's acting styles just melds so well together. 314 00:26:57.119 --> 00:27:01.740 Not that she was bad with Matt Smith, but just she's on another level with Capaldi. 315 00:27:02.039 --> 00:27:06.599 And I think also it is just the incredible material that she's getting here. 316 00:27:06.660 --> 00:27:12.599 So that horror movie sequence in that dream within a dream is great. 317 00:27:12.660 --> 00:27:15.299 It's full of hilarious Moffatt dialogue. 318 00:27:15.299 --> 00:27:20.279 It's properly funny and it's properly heartbreaking as well. 319 00:27:20.339 --> 00:27:28.920 I was saying to you guys before we started recording that I'd forgotten how affecting some parts of this episode are. 320 00:27:28.980 --> 00:27:52.319 And particularly, I think if you, if just coming off series 8 as well, so that obviously the, the loss that Clara has suffered in, in losing Danny and kind of the awfulness in the way that he was taken from her life, you really like feel the unfairness on Clara's part of why shouldn't I be allowed to live in this, in this house with this person that I love? 321 00:27:52.380 --> 00:27:54.960 And like, I think Jenna is fantastic. 322 00:27:55.079 --> 00:27:58.259 Peter's fantastic, but Samuel in that scene is so good. 323 00:27:58.980 --> 00:28:00.720 Danny pink in red.. 324 00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:10.980 He's playing it quite differently because it is the 1st time that we have seen him not sort of concerned or so he's just a little bit goofier and a little bit sillier. 325 00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:19.559 And I guess initially because he's a figment, you know, who's created by Clara's mind as part of the dream. 326 00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:22.319 But I think, is that how she sees him? 327 00:28:22.380 --> 00:28:22.859 No. 328 00:28:22.859 --> 00:28:23.579 Fluffier. 329 00:28:23.700 --> 00:28:27.059 Well, maybe, but it's also Christmas and he's being silly and stuff. 330 00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:32.220 But I think he becomes Danny, and it is explicit, isn't it? 331 00:28:32.279 --> 00:28:35.519 I'm going to save you again, and this is how I'm going to do it. 332 00:28:35.579 --> 00:28:41.099 And that thing about 5 minutes, you know, like, I want my 5 minutes. 333 00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:46.500 You're going to think about me and miss me for 5 minutes properly and then you're going to get on with your life. 334 00:28:46.500 --> 00:28:53.640 And just we had that thing about grief in dark water at the beginning of dark water. 335 00:28:53.700 --> 00:29:00.000 Next year, we'll have a thing about grief, which is sort of operatic and enormous and kind of overblown. 336 00:29:00.059 --> 00:29:04.200 This is a love, wonderful, you know, one of the best things. the show ever does. 337 00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:07.859 But, yeah, not a criticism. 338 00:29:09.059 --> 00:29:11.220 I just wanted to touch it. 339 00:29:11.220 --> 00:29:12.480 I wanted to check. 340 00:29:12.539 --> 00:29:19.859 But this is a sweet, you know, and very real, you know, proper thing about what grief is like. 341 00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:21.059 I just thought it was so good. 342 00:29:21.059 --> 00:29:26.220 And a central metaphor as well, the conceit of the last every Christmas is last. 343 00:29:26.339 --> 00:29:28.859 Yeah, which I did read Xander's review. 344 00:29:28.859 --> 00:29:33.119 And she said, it is missing a definite article, but... 345 00:29:33.180 --> 00:29:34.500 I thought it was just the song. 346 00:29:34.619 --> 00:29:37.440 I thought it was just the, I think that's part of it. 347 00:29:37.500 --> 00:29:39.660 Well, they don't even play last Christmas. 348 00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:40.680 No. 349 00:29:40.740 --> 00:29:42.599 Mandela effects. 350 00:29:42.660 --> 00:29:43.500 I thought they did. 351 00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:47.579 Yeah, probably not. song, which, by the way, is a bit cringy. 352 00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:48.420 Shona. 353 00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:50.640 I absolutely... 354 00:29:50.700 --> 00:29:51.480 Love it. 355 00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:52.859 Love it. 356 00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:57.180 Well, because part of the thing is too, that you don't quite know what's going on. 357 00:29:57.240 --> 00:30:10.559 And because the space-based people are so generic, like they're so completely and utterly generic, and it is the usual kind of space-based people in an RTD or a Moffat era show. 358 00:30:10.619 --> 00:30:14.759 You know, they're sort of different ages, ethnically diverse and so on. 359 00:30:14.819 --> 00:30:18.900 But the whole time you're they're going, what the hell is happening with Shona? 360 00:30:19.019 --> 00:30:20.400 Like, what is she? 361 00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:33.720 Do you know what just struck me actually when you were talking about all of that and kind of, you know, the meditation on grief that this is what Star Trek Generations was aiming for and misses in its latter stages in the Nexus? 362 00:30:33.779 --> 00:30:38.579 Because Picard is having a meditation on grief because he's lost his family and his nephew. 363 00:30:38.579 --> 00:30:47.099 And it's kind of you're like, you go into that dream world and you're drawn into it and it's like, do you just stay in the happiness, like Clara, the opportunity to? 364 00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:49.859 And it doesn't land with half as much impact as this does. 365 00:30:49.980 --> 00:30:50.519 Yeah. 366 00:30:50.519 --> 00:30:58.200 No, well, that's because of the ugly, ugly children that Picard imagines that he has when he's in the nexus. 367 00:30:58.200 --> 00:30:59.220 Brady Bunch. 368 00:30:59.339 --> 00:31:00.720 Thank you for the dolly, Papa. 369 00:31:01.319 --> 00:31:09.720 And and the absurd, the absurd decision to have someone a little bit, but not entirely unlike Beverly. 370 00:31:09.779 --> 00:31:12.000 It's like just have just have gates. 371 00:31:12.059 --> 00:31:17.519 She's done through this film anyway, except smile at Geordie and be called Ugly by some Klingons. 372 00:31:17.579 --> 00:31:19.680 Yeah, she does get pushed. 373 00:31:19.740 --> 00:31:24.000 If James was here, he would say, when are we doing the Star Trek generations podcast? 374 00:31:24.059 --> 00:31:25.440 I've done it already. 375 00:31:26.819 --> 00:31:29.940 Actually, Nathan, fun fact about that stunt. 376 00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:34.859 That's actually Patricia Tallman, whose most famous for playing Lita Alexander in Babylon 5. 377 00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:36.480 Oh my goodness. 378 00:31:36.539 --> 00:31:37.500 I've never heard of that. 379 00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:38.519 There you go. 380 00:31:38.519 --> 00:31:39.539 It's okay. 381 00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:40.079 Yeah. 382 00:31:56.519 --> 00:31:59.579 Can we talk about the dream crabs? 383 00:31:59.700 --> 00:32:00.420 Yeah. 384 00:32:00.539 --> 00:32:03.240 So, what do we think? 385 00:32:03.299 --> 00:32:05.880 I think they're a lovely puppet. 386 00:32:05.940 --> 00:32:10.380 Because there's a bit where one of them's in the and I love the one in the glass, yeah. 387 00:32:10.440 --> 00:32:14.279 Yeah, I'm doing the motion now, listener, because this is the perfect thing for podcasting. 388 00:32:14.339 --> 00:32:23.099 But, you know, if at home you hold up your own hand and just sort of gently undulate your fingers, you can achieve the desired effect. 389 00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:25.980 Yeah, no, I think they're a wonderful practical effect. 390 00:32:26.039 --> 00:32:28.440 And we know how hard they are to get right. 391 00:32:28.500 --> 00:32:30.299 Do you remember the dream Beetle from turn left. 392 00:32:30.539 --> 00:32:32.160 Backpack. 393 00:32:32.220 --> 00:32:33.000 Yeah. 394 00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:36.000 Well, I mean, the thing is that they appear to have a mouth. 395 00:32:36.059 --> 00:32:39.539 You know, there's that thing about how they can't see or hear. 396 00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:47.400 So it's a completely featureless thing apart from a mouth and then they advance on you and open the mouth. 397 00:32:47.460 --> 00:32:50.160 Like I think that works incredibly well. 398 00:32:50.220 --> 00:32:59.460 And I have to say that the fact that the sleepers were the 4 of them. 399 00:33:00.299 --> 00:33:07.079 I can't remember, but I doubt that I realised that until the characters themselves did. 400 00:33:07.140 --> 00:33:12.119 Yeah, I think I'd forgotten it and this time it's like, you know, yeah, it really works. 401 00:33:12.180 --> 00:33:13.680 I was fooled at the time. 402 00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:15.299 They're quite scary as well. 403 00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:18.359 That little set piece with Clara being menaced. 404 00:33:18.420 --> 00:33:20.099 Yeah, that is scary. 405 00:33:20.220 --> 00:33:21.000 Play mute. 406 00:33:21.059 --> 00:33:21.900 Yeah, yeah. 407 00:33:21.960 --> 00:33:23.099 She shoots a proper scream. 408 00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:26.160 Really screams and she does it so well. really good. 409 00:33:26.460 --> 00:33:29.880 She belts out and Moffat's like, come back for another suit. 410 00:33:31.019 --> 00:33:34.859 I can't believe we haven't done this. that's right. 411 00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:45.180 I love the ice cream pain description of when they're under and they it's the thing of like that pain getting sharper. 412 00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:48.180 It's such a gross image of them eating, eating. 413 00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:49.380 Yeah, yeah. 414 00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:50.099 That was done. 415 00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:52.680 Have you ever seen Star Trek, the Next Generation's schisms? 416 00:33:52.740 --> 00:33:53.160 No. 417 00:33:53.160 --> 00:33:53.519 Yes. 418 00:33:53.579 --> 00:33:55.440 Because that is exactly the same thing. 419 00:33:55.500 --> 00:33:58.019 They keep coming in with these mysterious aches and pains. 420 00:33:58.019 --> 00:33:59.400 They kind of have, you know, this pain. 421 00:33:59.460 --> 00:34:01.680 I think it might be Geordie, has a pain in his temple. 422 00:34:02.279 --> 00:34:05.339 And it turns out he's having something horrible drilled into it. 423 00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:15.719 And also in Star Trek, you have Phantasms where data is having nightmares and one of the nightmares has Beverly drinking Riker's brain with a straw. 424 00:34:15.780 --> 00:34:19.920 Yes, that's right. would explain a lot. 425 00:34:19.980 --> 00:34:22.260 Yeah, it's a cellulopeptide cake. 426 00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:22.619 Yeah. 427 00:34:22.619 --> 00:34:24.059 Yeah. 428 00:34:24.780 --> 00:34:27.420 Let's talk about the next generation. 429 00:34:27.900 --> 00:34:30.300 Can we talk about the guest cast? 430 00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:31.619 Yeah. 431 00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:32.400 Yeah. 432 00:34:32.460 --> 00:34:37.500 So we have Michael Troughton for a start and another professor. 433 00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:44.519 He actually sounds exactly like his father when he's giving Shona the instructions at the very beginning. 434 00:34:44.579 --> 00:34:46.380 Now she just sounds like it. 435 00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:48.360 Yes, it absolutely sounds like it. 436 00:34:48.420 --> 00:34:51.119 Sounds really like his brother in... 437 00:34:51.179 --> 00:34:51.719 Yeah, yeah. 438 00:34:51.780 --> 00:34:53.039 And that's the thing. 439 00:34:53.099 --> 00:34:57.179 It becomes his own voice when Shona's like he was feeling up my knee. 440 00:34:57.239 --> 00:34:59.400 I thought it was comforting. 441 00:34:59.460 --> 00:35:01.139 That's where the doctorness goes. 442 00:35:01.139 --> 00:35:03.719 And I wonder if it's conscious choice on his part. 443 00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:10.139 Because he is playing the 2nd doctor now for Big Finish, Michael Troughton. 444 00:35:10.139 --> 00:35:18.659 And he does it differently to how David does it because David does it too, but it's very good, but his own voice is quite different from his dad's. 445 00:35:18.719 --> 00:35:21.599 So I think I think it may be a conscious choice. 446 00:35:21.659 --> 00:35:23.760 Yes, I'm very comforting and da da da da. 447 00:35:23.820 --> 00:35:27.119 But also, yes, I was touching your knee. 448 00:35:27.179 --> 00:35:27.480 Yes. 449 00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:31.500 Exactly like the 2nd doctor. 450 00:35:31.559 --> 00:35:32.159 Yeah, yeah. 451 00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:33.179 Two families. 452 00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:42.599 But again, like the, you know, the revelation that they're not really sort of space people, you know, on a space base. 453 00:35:42.659 --> 00:35:45.480 Well, we don't know what he actually is because he... 454 00:35:45.539 --> 00:35:49.980 He wakes up dead, but Ashley's, you know, an account executive for a perfume company. 455 00:35:50.039 --> 00:35:51.900 I think she's magnificent. 456 00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:52.860 There's actually one. 457 00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:53.639 Yeah, yeah. 458 00:35:53.699 --> 00:35:54.659 Oh, no, no, no, no. 459 00:35:54.659 --> 00:35:56.039 Bellows is the sexy Bellows. 460 00:35:56.460 --> 00:36:02.219 See, I was getting vibes of what's her face from the gangers 2 parter. 461 00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:02.880 I'm sorry. 462 00:36:02.940 --> 00:36:05.820 Yeah, well, you know, I thought she was good. 463 00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:16.679 But it was very clearly like we're assembling these people from, you know, like Ashley's doing a bit of a sort of, you know, Vannette Robinson from 42. 464 00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:22.800 You know, we're just picking these people from the previous space-based people. 465 00:36:22.860 --> 00:36:24.960 But they're all really terrible at it. 466 00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:25.619 Yeah. 467 00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:32.400 Well, the thing is, at one point, Bellows, who is the older woman who Capaldi calls sexy. 468 00:36:32.460 --> 00:36:35.400 At one point when the dream crabs are trying to come through the door. 469 00:36:35.460 --> 00:36:40.440 She is the one hitting the dream crabs back with the butt of her rifle. 470 00:36:40.500 --> 00:36:49.199 Like she is Ripley in this because the thing to remember about Ripley is she's not an action heroine to begin with. 471 00:36:49.260 --> 00:36:55.079 She becomes that as the series goes on, but she's the navigator, I believe, of the Nostromo. 472 00:36:55.139 --> 00:37:04.320 You know, with some combat training, but the whole point is she's meant to be an ordinary intelligent person and you get that with Burroughs as well. 473 00:37:04.380 --> 00:37:08.039 Who's, yeah, the one who's ready to whack a dream crap in the face. 474 00:37:08.340 --> 00:37:15.239 And they're kind of melancholy those scenes where the characters are waking up because even though they've been saved and all of that. 475 00:37:15.300 --> 00:37:20.280 This is an adventure, which is probably the adventure of their lifetime, and they're never going to have, they've just gone back to their boring lives. 476 00:37:20.340 --> 00:37:23.340 It's all, you know, it's maybe sort of what Christmas day is as well. 477 00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:26.099 Together you have fun and then boxing day is always a letdown. 478 00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:30.780 But I think Shona actually does get a good ending. 479 00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:33.420 She does. what she's forgiving Dave for. 480 00:37:33.480 --> 00:37:35.099 Well, but that's nice. 481 00:37:35.159 --> 00:37:38.159 I thought that that was really good, that, and she ticks it. 482 00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:40.860 Like I have, she's just decided to forgive him. 483 00:37:40.860 --> 00:37:42.599 And we don't know anything about it. 484 00:37:42.659 --> 00:37:43.500 Of course, we don't. 485 00:37:43.619 --> 00:37:48.539 And, you know, it's that sort of thing where Moffatt puts all of the influences in the actual show itself. 486 00:37:48.599 --> 00:37:56.219 But she wakes up in this sort of really dismal, you know, crappy, old, flat, full of crap everywhere. 487 00:37:57.119 --> 00:37:59.519 Christmas Day is basically a Game of Thrones marathon. 488 00:37:59.579 --> 00:38:00.659 Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. 489 00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:02.760 But she's decided to get together with someone. 490 00:38:02.820 --> 00:38:03.780 Like I think it's nice. 491 00:38:03.840 --> 00:38:15.840 I also, was she also, was it not necessarily that she was going to be the next companion, but this was, I've heard that this is Stephen Moffat kind of trialling an idea for what the companion after Clara could be. 492 00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:32.820 And I think that there was a point in time. whether or not it was going to be the same actress playing Shona that we meet, like, again, at the start of the next season for it with a different, you know, which could be nice because she's only got this memory of the doctor in her dream and then, like, that could work. kind of partners in crime. 493 00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:34.320 Yeah, yeah, definitely. 494 00:38:34.380 --> 00:38:37.679 But obviously we end up getting Bill a few years later, which is great. 495 00:38:37.739 --> 00:38:38.639 But like, yeah. 496 00:38:38.699 --> 00:38:40.019 Shona is great though. 497 00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:41.699 I mean, she's superb character. 498 00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:50.280 Yeah In the nightmare scene. 499 00:38:50.340 --> 00:38:59.820 I loved Murray's soundtrack where it goes from like this sort of like little idyllic string passage and then it just like rises and rises and becomes more and more uncomfortable. 500 00:38:59.880 --> 00:39:00.900 I don't know. 501 00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:02.940 Like, I think Murray's work is often really great. 502 00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:10.320 I understand the criticism sometimes that it's overbearing, but in those moments, I was like, 0 my god, this is like so good. 503 00:39:10.380 --> 00:39:12.840 Like that where she's wiping the chalk. 504 00:39:12.900 --> 00:39:16.260 Yeah, yeah. a minute or 2 of just this music kind of souring. 505 00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:20.280 Like it's the same piece of music that just sours as it goes along and I feel it's so good. 506 00:39:20.340 --> 00:39:23.519 Well, we're going to have Murray back and I think that... 507 00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:24.960 And Christmas Day episodes. 508 00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:25.980 Oh my gosh. 509 00:39:26.039 --> 00:39:27.840 It's gonna be something. shooters first. 510 00:39:27.900 --> 00:39:28.380 Yeah. 511 00:39:28.440 --> 00:39:29.039 So exciting. 512 00:39:29.099 --> 00:39:38.639 Another influence that just occurred to me with what you were saying, Max, about the sort of soundtrack of the Dreamscape is episode of Futurama called The Sting. 513 00:39:38.699 --> 00:39:39.300 Yes. 514 00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:42.900 Yeah, where Leila has an induced dream state. 515 00:39:42.960 --> 00:40:01.079 Because I was just thinking when Clara's in her fantasy slash nightmare, the way the doctor talks to her is to tell her exactly what is happening to her, you know, and there's a bit towards the end of the sting where Fryer is trying to coax Leila out of a dream. 516 00:40:01.079 --> 00:40:08.579 And he kind of has the same thing, but of course it's more comedic because he's like, you can't just lay in bed waiting to die. 517 00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:09.780 Bed sores hurt. 518 00:40:11.340 --> 00:40:15.179 But what's happening is she's she's in bed and she's not waking up. 519 00:40:15.239 --> 00:40:18.599 And that is one of the most affecting episodes of Futurama. 520 00:40:18.659 --> 00:40:23.280 Like, I think there's sort of 5 universally agreed episodes of Futurama where people are like, I was in tears. 521 00:40:23.340 --> 00:40:31.139 And for me in this episode, the moment I start bawling is when daddy says he didn't save the world. 522 00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:32.159 He saved Clara. 523 00:40:32.219 --> 00:40:33.179 Yeah. 524 00:40:33.239 --> 00:40:34.619 Yeah, the world was just collateral. 525 00:40:34.679 --> 00:40:35.099 Yeah. 526 00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:39.659 You know, considering that this isn't Danny Pink. 527 00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:41.460 This is Clara's memory of him. 528 00:40:41.460 --> 00:40:48.659 Imagine carrying that around in your head and never vocalising it that she's like, he's dead because of me. 529 00:40:48.719 --> 00:40:54.239 But then for her subconscious to turn that into something heroic. 530 00:40:54.300 --> 00:40:57.840 It leads me to being incredibly disappointed next year. 531 00:40:57.900 --> 00:41:04.079 But we'll get to that I have to say that I just think he's Danny. at this point because he's played by Samuel Anderson. 532 00:41:04.139 --> 00:41:06.059 He's on the tally like he was in the other episodes. 533 00:41:06.119 --> 00:41:22.079 And so I've just decided that it's him and that works well too, because there's a moment where, you know, both the doctor and Danny are in some senses, imaginary things in her dream, like they're part of this dreamscape that's induced both of them are. 534 00:41:22.139 --> 00:41:27.719 And then both of them kind of agree to Danny's plan to save Clara. 535 00:41:27.780 --> 00:41:32.519 Like, the 2 of them kind of, yeah, both of them agree to do that. 536 00:41:32.579 --> 00:41:39.000 And so I think he has a degree of sort of independent life there, which I think is a very Moffat thing as well. 537 00:41:39.059 --> 00:41:40.199 I think so. 538 00:41:40.260 --> 00:41:55.500 And I think also like the gorgeous, and I think it does now knowing where series 9 goes, obviously, in retrospect, the ending that we get to, which I still find really overwhelmingly like emotive with their agreement to keep on travelling. 539 00:41:55.559 --> 00:42:18.119 But it is so joyous in that moment because it does feel like Clara sort of being given permission, either by yourself or by Danny, to be able to live this life and to do what she loves to do, and where maybe we see next year, that sort of, I think that whole addictive, that whole thing that she's addicted to this and it's not as rosy as it feels. 540 00:42:18.179 --> 00:42:26.519 But it's Christmas day and she's reconciling with them and of course it feels like it feels like the best thing to do in the world because it is. the best thing to run away with a doctor. 541 00:42:26.579 --> 00:42:27.900 Yeah, it's the best thing you could do. 542 00:42:27.960 --> 00:42:32.340 We always say that Mothat reacts to the thing that he did most recently. 543 00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:41.880 And so by setting Clara up as someone who was torn between a home life and the doctor, next year, of course, and we see it in this episode, she's all in as being a companion and we'll see where that leads. 544 00:42:41.940 --> 00:42:44.099 She wants to become too much like the doctor. 545 00:42:44.159 --> 00:42:49.559 I think that's a really interesting angle to take that hasn't necessarily been done before. 546 00:42:49.619 --> 00:42:55.800 And I think it produces like a fantastic season of Doctor Who next year, personally, but I love the end of this story. 547 00:42:55.860 --> 00:42:58.440 Like it makes me cry like happy cry at the end. 548 00:42:58.500 --> 00:43:00.960 Like it feels in a weird, I don't know why I always think this. 549 00:43:01.019 --> 00:43:03.059 It feels a little bit like getting back with an X or something. 550 00:43:03.119 --> 00:43:06.480 There's a part of it that like there's the... 551 00:43:06.539 --> 00:43:12.599 I think maybe that comes with the acknowledgement that, okay, this person might damage me. down the line. 552 00:43:12.659 --> 00:43:14.519 But it's Christmas. 553 00:43:14.519 --> 00:43:18.659 And I get to see this person again and I'm just going to do it. 554 00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:20.280 I'm talking about the doctoral class. 555 00:43:20.340 --> 00:43:21.719 Yeah, well, both. 556 00:43:22.380 --> 00:43:22.739 I think. 557 00:43:22.860 --> 00:43:34.260 But that, like, yeah, that moment, and I think Peter Capoli's performance in that moment actually sort of sort of breaks my heart, just the simplicity of him just saying, come with end... so good. 558 00:43:34.320 --> 00:43:35.880 There's vulnerability there. 559 00:43:35.940 --> 00:43:39.059 Like, he doesn't know that she's going to say yes. 560 00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:41.460 But he really, really wants her to. 561 00:43:41.519 --> 00:43:42.480 Yeah. 562 00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:43.320 You know? 563 00:43:43.380 --> 00:43:46.679 And as you say, it's all in Capaldi's performance. 564 00:43:46.739 --> 00:43:53.579 Like he sort of pauses before he asks and, you know, yeah, the swagger goes because he's come in. 565 00:43:53.639 --> 00:43:55.980 He's like, okay, I'm taking off the bloody head crab again. 566 00:43:57.300 --> 00:43:58.980 Am I young? 567 00:43:59.039 --> 00:43:59.760 I have no idea. 568 00:43:59.820 --> 00:44:01.619 That's so sweet. 569 00:44:01.679 --> 00:44:03.900 I love the I've got no idea. 570 00:44:03.960 --> 00:44:18.719 And then he rushes to get a mirror for her to check if that she's young. because that whole thing of him not seeing age is kind of a joke until that moment where it feels so like such a beautiful sentiment of how little how little he sees that despite, you know? 571 00:44:19.019 --> 00:44:26.880 I think there's something really interesting about Moffat's decision to just retain that ending scene and then add another dream onto it. 572 00:44:26.940 --> 00:44:29.699 I think it's absolutely the right thing to do. 573 00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:37.260 And seeing what that scene would have been like if this is where Jenna leaves the show. 574 00:44:37.320 --> 00:44:39.539 This is what we would have seen. 575 00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:42.179 And I think that seems really good. 576 00:44:44.099 --> 00:44:47.760 But I'm glad it's not where we land. 577 00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:50.340 I'm glad it didn't end with like terrible old mate. 578 00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:51.239 Terrible ageing. 579 00:44:51.300 --> 00:44:52.980 You know, like an old lake up. 580 00:44:52.980 --> 00:44:54.420 Jenna without makeup. 581 00:44:55.559 --> 00:44:58.860 Astonishing how much she looks like Grandma Etta, actually. 582 00:44:59.639 --> 00:45:03.719 See, I actually think the makeup's really good. 583 00:45:03.780 --> 00:45:07.380 I think where it falls down is Jenna doesn't know how to do an old voice. 584 00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:08.340 Right. 585 00:45:08.519 --> 00:45:10.500 Look, that's just my opinion. 586 00:45:10.559 --> 00:45:16.980 But also the way it's shot is we're meant to not know until she switches on the lamp and it's like, no, we can totally see like she's gray haired or what have you. 587 00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:25.559 But yeah, like, the listeners may not know that originally that was the end and that is how Jenna was going to be written out. 588 00:45:25.619 --> 00:45:28.320 And, you know, it's interesting. unique. 589 00:45:28.380 --> 00:45:36.659 And I think what's lovely is even though, you know, she says, well, it's actually the doctor says Danny was a tough act to follow. 590 00:45:36.780 --> 00:45:38.699 No, you know, no one could live up to Danny. 591 00:45:38.760 --> 00:45:40.920 She's travelled, she's taught. 592 00:45:40.980 --> 00:45:44.280 She's had a fun life, she's enjoyed herself. 593 00:45:44.340 --> 00:45:47.099 And I think it sends 2 powerful messages. 594 00:45:47.159 --> 00:45:57.480 It's A, you know, she did get on with life in a way, but also B, just because she didn't fall in love again. 595 00:45:57.539 --> 00:45:58.860 It wasn't a wasted life. 596 00:45:58.920 --> 00:45:59.699 Yeah. 597 00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:01.500 Yeah, I thought that was good. 598 00:46:01.559 --> 00:46:10.679 And I liked the, you know, the fact that she'd had all these regrets, which she was really happy about because it did mean that she, you know, had sex with a lot of people. 599 00:46:10.739 --> 00:46:11.460 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 600 00:46:11.519 --> 00:46:12.179 No, absolutely. 601 00:46:12.420 --> 00:46:17.099 I thought the moment in that scene that really landed for me. 602 00:46:17.159 --> 00:46:22.440 And again, when the Christmas cracker comes out, I'm there going, are you going to do this? 603 00:46:22.500 --> 00:46:24.059 Are you going to do this? 604 00:46:24.059 --> 00:46:27.000 and you have the doctor helping her? 605 00:46:27.059 --> 00:46:29.519 to open the Christmas cracker. 606 00:46:29.579 --> 00:46:33.480 Just like in time of the doctor, which is so perfect. 607 00:46:33.599 --> 00:46:36.659 And that was where I kind of lost it a bit. 608 00:46:36.719 --> 00:46:37.199 Yeah. 609 00:46:37.260 --> 00:46:39.599 Yeah, it is so sweet. 610 00:46:39.719 --> 00:46:44.639 Yeah, and with the whole, like, he doesn't know she's gotten old and he doesn't know she's still young. 611 00:46:44.699 --> 00:46:51.239 It throws a new complexion on all those remarks about her appearance over the previous 12 episodes. 612 00:46:51.300 --> 00:47:00.599 And it's a nice It's a nice ending to that because, you know, something you said all the way through, Nathan is, because she's not upset by it, it's okay. 613 00:47:00.659 --> 00:47:06.719 But it adds a new dimension to he genuinely doesn't know he's being insulting. 614 00:47:06.780 --> 00:47:07.739 Yeah. 615 00:47:07.739 --> 00:47:15.179 You know, he's like, he's genuinely confused by the 3 mirrors and it's like, is it because her head's wide? 616 00:47:15.239 --> 00:47:16.079 don't know. 617 00:47:16.199 --> 00:47:22.559 I always read it like that because this is the man that can't tell that Amy's pregnant. his choice. 618 00:47:22.619 --> 00:47:24.719 He doesn't know what that beautiful woman, probably. 619 00:47:24.780 --> 00:47:25.380 Yeah, yeah. 620 00:47:25.440 --> 00:47:26.579 All the way back. 621 00:47:26.699 --> 00:47:30.420 Although it is kind of more fun if he does know he's being insulted. 622 00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:33.780 I mean that largely ends at this point. 623 00:47:33.840 --> 00:47:43.260 So this is very, definitely kind of the arc finale for the doctor's character and it works just tremendously well, I think. 624 00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:49.079 Because the next time we see him, he's, you know, rolling in on a tank. an electric guitar, which I love. 625 00:47:49.139 --> 00:47:55.079 Yeah, I think without last Christmas, that those 2 versions of the character would feel completely different. 626 00:47:55.139 --> 00:47:57.659 But I think last Christmas is a necessary stepping point. 627 00:47:57.659 --> 00:48:08.940 And you can sort of imagine how he ends up riding in on a tank after like him just ecstatically happy running off with Clara and his night on the sleigh, like he's had such a important night for him. 628 00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:10.139 Yeah, you know. 629 00:48:34.199 --> 00:48:35.760 Well, that's all the time we have for now. 630 00:48:35.880 --> 00:48:38.940 We'll be back later this year to talk about Series 9. 631 00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:56.940 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us on our website, FlightTorEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our accounts on Facebook, Twitter, and Mastodon, as well as links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody interterra, maximum power, and untitled Star Trek Project. 632 00:48:57.179 --> 00:49:05.340 Until next time, remember that the big problem in telling reality and podcasting apart is that they're both ridiculous. 633 00:49:05.400 --> 00:49:06.960 Thank you very much for listening. 634 00:49:07.019 --> 00:49:09.179 Merry Christmas and good night. 635 00:49:09.239 --> 00:49:10.199 Sleep well. 636 00:49:10.260 --> 00:49:11.519 Happy holidays. 637 00:49:11.579 --> 00:49:13.920 And God bless us, Mary gentlemen. 638 00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:16.679 Haroon, Haroon. 639 00:49:16.739 --> 00:49:17.400 Haroon. 640 00:49:26.460 --> 00:49:31.739 That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottley, Max Jelbart, Brendan Jones, and Peter Griffiths. 641 00:49:31.800 --> 00:49:33.780 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. 642 00:49:33.840 --> 00:49:40.380 This episode, the Tangerine in the Window, was recorded on the 17th of June 2023 and released on the 25th of July. 643 00:49:43.440 --> 00:49:52.079 Well, there's no rest for the wicked, and so we'll be recording our episode on the magician's apprentice this weekend, and we'll start releasing our coverage of series 9 in the spring. 644 00:49:52.139 --> 00:49:55.679 Or the autumn if you live on the top half of the planet. 645 00:49:55.739 --> 00:49:56.940 We'll see you then. 646 00:49:58.679 --> 00:50:01.079 I think maybe out. 647 00:50:01.139 --> 00:50:05.519 I think maybe the discussion of old Lady Clara might be a good out. 648 00:50:05.519 --> 00:50:07.079 Might be the place to end it. 649 00:50:07.139 --> 00:50:10.739 You know, it takes some rearranging. 650 00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:13.019 I think after that we just went dream crabs and guest cast. 651 00:50:13.079 --> 00:50:14.460 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 652 00:50:14.519 --> 00:50:16.860 And they were things that should have gone in earlier I think. 653 00:50:16.920 --> 00:50:18.179 Yeah, I think you're right. 654 00:50:18.239 --> 00:50:20.940 But I derailed things by talking about the dream crabs too early. 655 00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:22.500 Oh, they're so good though. 656 00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:23.280 They're great. 657 00:50:23.340 --> 00:50:23.639 Yeah. 658 00:50:23.699 --> 00:50:24.300 Great. 659 00:50:24.300 --> 00:50:28.380 I don't think that Michael Trouton look alike is fat enough. 660 00:50:28.500 --> 00:50:42.480 I was looking, like I was checking to see, is there a fat one and like a short one and stuff like that, and I don't think that, because there's one guy who gets credited as sleeper or something, I think. 661 00:50:42.539 --> 00:50:43.860 Trout and Dream Crab. 662 00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:45.539 Yeah, yeah, Trout Dream Camp. 663 00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:47.519 It's probably Paul Casey. 664 00:50:47.579 --> 00:50:48.599 Probably. 665 00:50:48.659 --> 00:50:49.860 He's very tiny though. 666 00:50:50.159 --> 00:50:52.440 What's the what's the name of that? 667 00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:53.340 Paul Willis? 668 00:50:53.400 --> 00:50:54.000 Is that his name? 669 00:50:54.059 --> 00:50:58.079 Paul Wilmshurst So he did Mummy and Kill the Moon. 670 00:50:58.139 --> 00:51:00.719 He's so, like, this is great, and he doesn't come back, right? 671 00:51:00.780 --> 00:51:05.639 No, that's it. all the directors that Russell and Moth that rate because they're back to the Christmas special. 672 00:51:05.699 --> 00:51:06.780 Yeah, yeah. 673 00:51:06.780 --> 00:51:08.039 Like Metstein? 674 00:51:08.219 --> 00:51:09.480 Did Metstein do a Christmas special? 675 00:51:09.539 --> 00:51:10.800 No. 676 00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:11.760 Jamie Payne. 677 00:51:11.820 --> 00:51:12.780 Jamie Payne. 678 00:51:12.840 --> 00:51:13.019 Okay. 679 00:51:13.079 --> 00:51:14.880 After his sterling efforts on Hyde. 680 00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:19.679 I thought Saw Met scene did Dr. Widow in the wardrobe. 681 00:51:19.739 --> 00:51:21.300 No, not Dr. Widow on the Wardrobe. 682 00:51:21.360 --> 00:51:22.199 That's Farron Blackburn. 683 00:51:22.260 --> 00:51:22.980 I beg your pardon? 684 00:51:23.039 --> 00:51:23.639 The snowman. 685 00:51:24.059 --> 00:51:26.219 I think he did do this now. 686 00:51:26.280 --> 00:51:27.840 Yeah, Matt Steve does the cement. 687 00:51:27.900 --> 00:51:28.800 Yeah, yeah, he does. 688 00:51:28.860 --> 00:51:31.320 But yeah, this is shot so well. 689 00:51:31.380 --> 00:51:34.679 I love that that scene with the toys. 690 00:51:36.360 --> 00:51:38.280 The slinky's coming. 691 00:51:38.340 --> 00:51:46.019 That was just, which is obviously a great visual gag, but it's also shot with such conviction and like the music that music cue over it. 692 00:51:46.079 --> 00:51:46.920 It's really good. 693 00:51:46.980 --> 00:51:50.280 It's really good What fun? 694 00:51:50.340 --> 00:51:51.239 All right. 695 00:51:51.300 --> 00:51:52.320 I think I think we're done. 696 00:51:52.380 --> 00:52:02.460 Yeah, I have one, I have one more thing about fame, I say, and we don't necessarily need to include this, but we've most recently seen her in Andor as resistant cell leader, Velsartha. 697 00:52:02.519 --> 00:52:04.559 Oh my god, she is too. 698 00:52:04.679 --> 00:52:06.480 Oh, wow. 699 00:52:06.539 --> 00:52:08.219 Have you seen Andor? 700 00:52:08.280 --> 00:52:11.519 I'm not a Star Wars guy, but Andor is so great. 701 00:52:11.639 --> 00:52:15.000 It's really Blake 7, which is a reason. 702 00:52:15.059 --> 00:52:18.179 Blake 7 only with better writing and better performances. 703 00:52:18.300 --> 00:52:19.500 Yeah. 704 00:52:19.500 --> 00:52:25.199 And Corrison, things set on Corrison, which is made out of pixels in the prequels. 705 00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:30.119 It seems to be made out of concrete in Andor, it's incredible. your maximum power. 706 00:52:31.019 --> 00:52:35.699 Yeah, well, the last thing I watched was Ultraworld, right? 707 00:52:37.500 --> 00:52:39.300 I need to go watch that. 708 00:52:39.360 --> 00:52:40.860 I need to go watch that now. 709 00:52:40.920 --> 00:52:41.940 Yeah, you're gonna do that. 710 00:52:42.780 --> 00:52:44.340 All right. 711 00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:46.320 Well, we'll leave you to it then in that case. 712 00:52:46.380 --> 00:52:47.159 Go and watch it. 713 00:52:47.219 --> 00:52:52.199 See, you know that Tarrant and Dana bone in that one. 714 00:52:52.260 --> 00:52:54.179 Just a human meeting ritual. 715 00:52:55.079 --> 00:52:57.420 What's she doing to his nose? 716 00:52:57.599 --> 00:52:59.760 I was trying to work out. 717 00:52:59.820 --> 00:53:03.780 Is anyone, so 2 of them shave their heads and the other one refused to. 718 00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:04.739 Really? 719 00:53:04.739 --> 00:53:05.880 You didn't need to, did he? 720 00:53:05.940 --> 00:53:08.159 Well, no, but his hair looked like a wig. 721 00:53:08.219 --> 00:53:10.860 I thought he'd put like a circular wig on. 722 00:53:10.920 --> 00:53:11.760 Into minor. 723 00:53:11.820 --> 00:53:13.260 It's Picard hair. 724 00:53:13.320 --> 00:53:14.280 It's so bad. 725 00:53:14.519 --> 00:53:18.179 Like, like, it grows back. 726 00:53:18.239 --> 00:53:20.820 I don't like I don't know what... 727 00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:24.900 Maybe had something next on next week or something, next. 728 00:53:24.960 --> 00:53:25.320 Yeah. 729 00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:29.159 Maybe he said, I'm not shaving my head for this program. 730 00:53:29.219 --> 00:53:34.800 Well, there's that old story about the 1st episode of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. 731 00:53:34.860 --> 00:53:40.380 Like, because they were shooting it as a pilot, even though the series had been commissioned, but it was this weird thing. 732 00:53:40.440 --> 00:53:42.840 Basically, the pilot in the series were shot a while apart. 733 00:53:42.900 --> 00:53:47.880 And the pilot, the location work was done, I think, 2 months before the studios. 734 00:53:48.119 --> 00:53:52.679 So, um, pretty much what's his name? 735 00:53:53.159 --> 00:53:55.079 Simon Jones. 736 00:53:55.139 --> 00:53:56.639 Arthur Dent. 737 00:53:56.699 --> 00:53:59.400 Goes off to do another show and they're like, you need to cut your hair. 738 00:53:59.400 --> 00:54:01.019 And he's like, no, no, no, I've got this. 739 00:54:01.079 --> 00:54:01.739 I've got this thing. 740 00:54:01.800 --> 00:54:04.500 I'm not allowed to cut my hair or you have to cut it to the same leg. 741 00:54:04.559 --> 00:54:05.579 No, no, no, we're cutting your hair. 742 00:54:05.639 --> 00:54:08.400 And he's like, Okay, I've warned you. 743 00:54:08.880 --> 00:54:10.920 No, he does the job. 744 00:54:10.980 --> 00:54:11.639 They cut his hair. 745 00:54:11.760 --> 00:54:20.280 So for the for the studio scenes of the 1st episode, he has a partial wig that was paid for by the other production. 746 00:54:20.340 --> 00:54:23.219 Well, what about Do you remember Henry Cavell? 747 00:54:23.280 --> 00:54:26.039 Henry Cavell's fake upper lip. 748 00:54:26.099 --> 00:54:26.820 Did you ever see that? 749 00:54:26.880 --> 00:54:29.579 Jesus Christ, that was bad. 750 00:54:29.639 --> 00:54:34.260 Yeah, because whoever does Mission Impressible wouldn't let him shave his moustache. 751 00:54:34.320 --> 00:54:36.300 Yeah, so he had to wear... 752 00:54:36.300 --> 00:54:39.000 How long does it take to grow a moustache, for God's sake. 753 00:54:39.119 --> 00:54:40.980 I mean, yeah. 754 00:54:40.980 --> 00:54:45.000 Maybe he was shooting both at once. 755 00:54:45.059 --> 00:54:45.539 I don't. 756 00:54:45.539 --> 00:54:46.619 I think it was... 757 00:54:46.619 --> 00:54:48.300 Cavil, you've seen how hair he is. 758 00:54:48.360 --> 00:54:49.440 Yeah, he is. 759 00:54:49.500 --> 00:54:50.820 Yeah. 760 00:54:50.820 --> 00:54:51.780 Yeah. 761 00:54:51.840 --> 00:54:53.519 Plenty of times. 762 00:54:55.320 --> 00:54:56.880 All right. 763 00:54:56.940 --> 00:54:58.380 We'll leave you to it. was fun. 764 00:54:58.440 --> 00:55:00.179 Give everyone my love tonight. 765 00:55:00.239 --> 00:55:00.780 I will. 766 00:55:00.780 --> 00:55:01.139 I will. 767 00:55:01.199 --> 00:55:02.340 No lovely to see you. 768 00:55:02.400 --> 00:55:03.360 Good to see you, mate. 769 00:55:03.420 --> 00:55:04.199 Good to see you, Peter. 770 00:55:04.260 --> 00:55:07.440 Bye, Nathan. send me the audio. 771 00:55:07.500 --> 00:55:08.219 Send me the audio. 772 00:55:09.420 --> 00:55:11.880 Okay, and stopping.