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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:42:59

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast which thinks that while Jane Austen has good technique.

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She presses a bit hard and pulls your head round a bit roughly.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm James.

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I'm Peter, and I'm Tom.

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Well, the doctor is facing imminent certain death as usual, and so now we have to find out where on earth he actually is.

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And so our 1st step, as always, will be to consult the magician's apprentice.

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How amazing is it to have Missy back so soon?

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It's really very clear, isn't it, that Moffat just couldn't leave her alone, like he killed her in the last regular episode, at which point presumably he had last Christmas planned already.

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So the 2nd he can get her back, he does.

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And she is just incredibly great.

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And isn't it great always having a death ray slash might be teleport happening?

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We'll see next week that Moffatt actually makes that canonical thing that's now impossible to avoid absolutely means that that can always, always, always have happened whenever anyone's shot.

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It made me think of the Cliffhangers part one of Caves of Andrazani, where we have to use actual guns with bullets in order to ensure that we knew that they'd actually been shown.

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This isn't a cliffhanger.

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It's actually happening.

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Yeah, Missy is amazing.

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I mean, it's so great to have Michelle Gomez back and she leads the story in the same way.

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So the doctor is absent, apart from that prologue.

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He's absent from 10, 12 minutes of the story.

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And so she's the lead.

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It's not Clara, it's missy.

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And certainly not Kate Lethbridge Stewart.

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It's interesting with that because as you say, the doctor is kind of vanished from the story.

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There's this whole sort of mystery that he's gone and people are looking for him.

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Um, and I remember, because he's there in, you get the pre-title.

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So he's there.

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You see him in the bit in the... one of the most elegant pre-titles ever, but I'm sure we'll talk about that.

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Yeah.

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It's interesting because I remember when I used to edit the Doctor Who magazine when this story was on.

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I did quite near the end of my time on the magazine and we were talking about, you know, it was the start of a new series and how we would, you know, what's the hook, how you promote it.

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And I was reminded that it was a secret that Davros was going to be in this story.

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So it completely changed how we were going to, you know, what's the way into it?

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And if you can't talk about Davros, then it's quite difficult.

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So, well, what's this, what's this story about?

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So yeah, we did have to sort of go in on the kind of what the doctors vanished.

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People are looking for him. where he is, which isn't quite as exciting as talking about Davros, but they were very clear that Davros was to be a surprise, even though he's kind of there in the 1st 2 minutes of the episode.

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I think he does come as a surprise though, doesn't he?

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So we open in this sort of battlefield and Moffatt, who is, of course, every bit, the sort of massive fan that we tend to forget that he really is, is recreating the idea of the war in Genesis of the Dialects.

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And he does that really, really, just brilliantly well by having a biplane, firing laser beams at some soldiers who then turn around and try and hit it with a bow and arrow.

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Like it absolutely gets that without any dialogue just showing it to us.

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And so I think probably some of us were suspecting at that point that we were looking at Skara.

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It's very reminiscent, isn't it?

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the line Harry Sullivan says about this story, they're going to end up with bows and arrows.

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So I think it's very very playing specifically.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, it's a nice little call back to that.

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And the whole colour palette of it looks very, you know, you instantly recognise that's the world we're in.

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And it was always such a great idea that, you know, let's revisit it.

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Yeah, let's use that iconography again.

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But the thing that they do, of course, is they update it.

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So the 2 Khalids are black, which I think is really super interesting given that they were kind of a Nazi analogue in the original story.

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And they also don't speak with sort of posh English accents, like they just sort of speak normally.

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And then we see the sort of hand minds thing.

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Is that hilarious line?

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Aren't there clam drones somewhere?

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Like someone comes up and says there are clam drones we have to go and get the clam drones.

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And then we have the hand mines.

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And that, again, is a completely different type of technology, which you can imagine Davros being involved in because he does sort of genetic stuff.

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Yeah, the original one predates him.

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The original one was one of his hands.

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I mean, I think it's the idea that the war has been going on for, goodness knows how long, because he says it's just the war.

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They don't know anything else, and presumably we don't know how long after Genesis is set, it could be, because Davros has already by that point kind of prolonged his life.

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I think they really sells the idea that the war has been going on for 1000s and 1000s of years.

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They had this technology.

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Yeah.

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It's handminded technology, which was super advanced and really bizarre and creepy.

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And they've devolved to the point where they're fighting biplanes with bows and arrows.

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Yeah.

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I've been spending a ridiculous amount of time playing Zelda Tears of the Kingdom over the past couple of months, and perhaps the most terrifying thing in that is the gloom spawn, which is hands covered in sort of goo with eyes in their palms that just sort of chase after you really quickly.

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And I just remember getting this sort of these catch, you know, they're frightening, aren't they?

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Yeah.

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And it's a brilliant idea.

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I mean, it is a tremendous idea.

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And the usual thing, like there's nothing more moffity than that line where there's the little kid and the soldier who's trying to tell him that everything's going to be okay and asks him if he's ever seen a handline and the kid is just looking at the guy's leg and you know immediately that that's what he's looking at.

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He's seen one right now around the guy's leg.

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And so the guy gets pulled down into the earth.

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Doesn't he the moment that he says everything's going to be okay?

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Yeah, he does a Colin in trial of a time lord.

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But isn't that sequence amazing?

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It is beautifully written and paste and filmed.

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It's the perfect opening to a series, I think.

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Hetty McDonald's. isn't it?

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Who's directing and that's the 1st one that she'd done, she's just done Blink before.

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Yes, the track.

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Yeah.

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But yeah.

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I remember she was a get for Blink because she was a feature film director.

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And you can tell.

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Yeah, beautiful thing. absolutely.

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And the 1st woman to direct a new series episode, I think.

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New series opener.

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A new series episode?

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Like, pushing the first.

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Yes, pushing the first.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, because then we had Alice Charlton and Catherine Moore's head, I think, from series five.

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But it is absolutely beautifully done and like it gives you that fan glow because as soon as you realise that we're back in Genesisville. you think, okay, what's happening here?

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What's he riffing on?

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And so this scene gets played out again and again, and obviously we come back to it at the end of the episode, it's the cliffhanger, and we see it several times in the course of the 2 part story.

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And so it is the central question, isn't it?

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Of the show is the thing that we hear Tom Baker's dog to say, you know, on Davros's TV a bit later, which is if there was a child who you knew would grow up to be a terrible dictator and destroy 1000000s of lives.

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Could you then kill that child?

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Or do you abandon that child?

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And I think we get the impression from from episode one that that is what he's done.

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It's deliberate misdirection is now. without preempting too much that happens in part two.

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It's the fact that at the end of the story, the doctor believes that Missy and Clara are dead.

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As the audience, I don't think we're really supposed to think that at all.

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But the doctor believes it.

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And so we're led to believe that he is going to go back and, well, actually, it's not clear, is it?

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Because obviously this is a, this is, this is a future doctor. we later find out.

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Well, this is after the end of the story. goes back.

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I think that what happens is this, and again, we are going to kind of wander into next week's territory a little bit here.

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But one of the things that Moffatt does with the fact that doctor can time travel is he often doesn't do flashbacks.

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Instead, the events happen in the doctor's timeline.

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So I think the doctor has been there first.

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And I think that when he hears from Davros, the reason that he feels ashamed is that he just left.

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He said he was going to save the boy and he didn't.

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He just left when he found out it was Davros.

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And we know that Davros remembers.

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You know, that's what Colony Saff says.

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Davros remembers, and we see Davros has the Sonic screwdriver that the doctor has thrown to Davros, and he himself doesn't have a Sonic screwdriver anymore.

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And then I think what happens is at the end of the story, he goes back and rescues him and he goes back and does that because the Dalek had mercy on Clara and he wants that mercy to come from somewhere.

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And so this is a story where there's a kind of utilitarian morality kind of held up and found wanting.

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And we've said this before, that Doctor Who doesn't really do utilitarianism.

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It's not good enough to leave Davros to die because it will save a lot of other people because what sort of person are you when you leave Davros to die?

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Yeah.

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And again, without wanting to preempt too much of part two.

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I mean, it's the Trouble Pub 2 part story.

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The doctor and Davros are at cross purposes through the, you know, when they meet at the end of Magician's Apprenticement and throughout part 2 that there's the Davros talks about his weakness and and yes, from Davros's point of view, the weakness is that he went back to rescue him.

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But the doctor doesn't know that.

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He doesn't know that.

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Exactly.

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Yeah.

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And so compassion is a weakness.

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And that is clearly wrong because Davros says it, like it's a moral judgement that Davros makes and Davros is wrong about morality sort of generally.

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I don't know.

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Sometimes.

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And so that's what's central to this story.

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And one of the things that I think about this story is that that's a really, really good central concede.

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It gives us a brilliant teaser and a great cliffhanger and a great ending, but the rest of the story seems to be spinning its wheels a little bit.

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I mean, I have a couple of things to say about that.

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One is that it's good that the doctor got the right Davros because Davros might just be a popular name around the car.

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That might have been Davros Jones that he was angsty about.

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Who knows?

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But yes, I think I'm very entertained by this episode and it does have that brilliant opener and I really like what it's talking about because it is saying something.

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So there's all these good things, which are really positive, but it is a series of extended set pieces, which don't quite mesh together.

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Yeah.

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I mean, I kind of want Doctor Who to not do a story every time.

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Like to not go and solve a space problem or an aliens problem or something like that.

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So this is a little bit more thoughtful.

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This is kind of reestablishing the doctor after we had a sort of extended critique of his character last season.

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This is our sort of seeing where we are in one sense.

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And it just gives us time to hang out with Missy and obviously that's a great thing.

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But, you know, I think we said the same thing about a good man goes to war.

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I like a good man goes to war quite a lot, but you kind of feel like that scene at the beginning where the doctor isn't seen and he's going to collect various people.

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You know, this is very similar to that, isn't it?

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And it does seem like the sort of thing that might not have survived a more rigourous edit.

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Yeah, I mean, sometimes you get some and very entertaining, a lot of nothingness.

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I mean, even Missy says with that stuff with the plane.

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She said, I couldn't have done anything with them anyway.

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So you realise, oh, that was all pointless then.

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That was just, it was just showboating.

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It's just...

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It's a great image.

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But I have to say that there's half a dozen really great set piece ideas in this episode and you'd be hard pressed to find maybe one of them fuelling a Chris Tubin episode.

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Yeah, I mean, I think that that's the thing.

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Sand says that we know that Bob Holmes could write Doctor Who in his sleep because he did several times.

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Here, this is as close to kind of failure mode as Moffat gets, and it's really clever and entertaining, and there's a lot happening among the characters and stuff.

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So, like on one level, I like the idea that we're trying something different from just a straightforward Doctor Who story, but it is a little bit lacking in incident, I think.

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And it kind of shows you the workings of the series as well.

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This episode has a lot to do with reintroducing Missy, bringing Clara back in.

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The doctor's got this moral choice that he's got to face.

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It's got to reintroduce the doctor after last Christmas and that kind of resolution after series 8 arc.

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And so it does that.

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It kind of does it sequentially, but it feels like set pieces because it gives them all something brilliant to do.

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And so with Missy's reintroduction, you get her at unit with the Missy Yusufine, which is like exactly what you want.

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And then it gives her and Clara that extended scene in the square, which, as we said, is a bit of vamping, but is really great and actually takes you back to those heady days of like the doctor and Joe Grant.

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Thank you, Miss Grant.

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We'll let you know, all of that because that relationship is important, the Missy Clara relationship and it powers the episode.

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And that set piece is really great.

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And it does, the thing, you know, Moffat has said before, that the trouble with the master is that they risk getting cuddly, because the master's threat is to be more interesting than the doctor, to be the star of the program, essentially, he threatens to depose the doctor as the main character of the program.

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And here you can see her doing it, she is so interesting, so much fun, absolutely able to hold those scenes and to be the sort of central focus of that part of the episode.

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But he does have her kill a bunch of people, which I just think is absolutely superb and have not turned good.

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And she doesn't do it in an off she does do it in an offhand way, but she doesn't do it in a glib way.

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She rubs it in.

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I can see the wedding ring on his finger and I think that he's got kids and she's been properly evil about it.

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Yeah, she's really, really terrific.

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What was it?

192
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Like, some baby, baby.

193
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Yeah, like baby spew.

194
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Oh, baby, baby.

195
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I also just thinking she's got some great lines, but the one that really sticks to my memory is, oh, Davros is your greatest enemy now, is he?

196
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Hang on.

197
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Did you say, old claw his eye out?

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That whole scene, the interplay between them in that whole scene where they arrive at the castle in the 12th century.

199
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Yeah, just fabulous.

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Like, oh, what you doing, man?

201
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She goes very Scottish suddenly, doesn't it?

202
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There's this suggestion that somehow this is because of Capaldi's Scottishness as well.

203
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You've got these 2 is she sort of mimicking him deliberately or is it?

204
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She decides to keep the accent in deep breath and she's been watching the episode deep breath.

205
00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:38.940
And so when the half-face man turns up at the end, she didn't see the doctor push him out of the restaurant because that wasn't in the episode.

206
00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:41.039
But she says, what do you think of the accent?

207
00:17:41.099 --> 00:17:42.119
I'm thinking of keeping it.

208
00:17:42.180 --> 00:17:43.740
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

209
00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:54.599
And she sometimes does a sort of comedy American, like kind of airhead American girl accent as well, which is just absolutely superb given what she's really like.

210
00:17:54.660 --> 00:18:02.220
And I guess to this version of the of the master is the one who is most credibly friends with the doctor.

211
00:18:02.279 --> 00:18:08.819
It's a thing that Stephen Moffatt pushes in the episode, is that these 2 people used to be friends.

212
00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:13.500
It was already present, wasn't it, in the RTD era, and it was sort of implied.

213
00:18:13.559 --> 00:18:16.680
It wasn't even really strongly implied, was it in the classic series?

214
00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:23.460
I think the pert we Delgado stuff, there is the sense that there's something there.

215
00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:29.940
Yeah, you know, um, I mean, less so with Anthony Ainley in the 80s, I think, but even then...

216
00:18:29.940 --> 00:18:32.279
That was the story of Anthony Ainley's master, less so.

217
00:18:32.339 --> 00:18:33.119
Yeah, yeah.

218
00:18:33.180 --> 00:18:36.660
But there is that kind of, there's that bit at the end of Planet of Fire, isn't there?

219
00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:38.039
wouldn't you have mercy even on your own?

220
00:18:38.099 --> 00:18:44.519
And there's that speculation that there's, you know, the milkman. president's wife.

221
00:18:44.579 --> 00:18:55.740
Yeah, they definitely have a history and although in the 5 doctors, the the 1st doctor, the Richard Herndle doctor doesn't even seem to quite recognise the master.

222
00:18:55.799 --> 00:18:56.880
When did this happen?

223
00:18:56.940 --> 00:19:10.799
I mean, I really like that element of Missy's version of the master in that you get the impression that she would stop killing people and turn to good, which spoilers, maybe she will, if only the doctor would actually be her friend and see her as a friend.

224
00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:16.319
And that's the whole bit with the previous story, wasn't it?

225
00:19:16.440 --> 00:19:17.579
Dark water, deaf in heaven.

226
00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:20.400
Yeah, that she just wants recognition.

227
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:21.900
And I think you've got that.

228
00:19:21.900 --> 00:19:29.099
If there's one thing because some of the master's plans over the years have been so utterly what even why were you even doing that?

229
00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:44.759
And I think if you put it through the prism of the master wants the doctor's approval somehow and wants the recognition that I've been really clever, that sort of, you know, kind of makes some of it just feels slightly, slightly more credible, maybe.

230
00:19:44.819 --> 00:19:47.819
Doesn't she suggest that that's her way of flirting?

231
00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:53.940
Like, doesn't she say that's our flirting, trying to kill one another, um, or our texting, possibly?

232
00:19:54.000 --> 00:20:02.279
I can't remember, but she does reinterpret what they've been doing for all of these years as kind of play in a way.

233
00:20:02.339 --> 00:20:06.240
And so she's the one who gets the confession dial, not Clara.

234
00:20:06.299 --> 00:20:08.339
And I have to confess, I think I said this.

235
00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:09.420
Have you got a dial?

236
00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:10.079
No.

237
00:20:11.339 --> 00:20:13.559
I have to confess.

238
00:20:13.619 --> 00:20:15.420
I didn't even realise what I was doing then.

239
00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:30.779
That a few episodes ago, I said that series 9 is the series of Doctor Who that I know the least well, that I've seen the least the least frequently, and I know obviously that the confession dial will come back and play a massive role towards the end of the series.

240
00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:36.119
But the doctor doesn't think he's going to die, does he, for the whole series?

241
00:20:36.180 --> 00:20:37.740
For once, no.

242
00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:38.579
No.

243
00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:45.000
Well, because that's the other thing. tenant going on and on in a very tedious way about how he's about to die.

244
00:20:45.059 --> 00:20:49.559
And then we had Matt Smith in a somewhat less tedious way, but still about to die.

245
00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:52.920
More than once because there was the whole Lake Silencio thing.

246
00:20:52.980 --> 00:20:53.759
Yeah, the whole of series.

247
00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:54.599
And then there's trends law.

248
00:20:54.660 --> 00:20:55.140
Oh, yeah.

249
00:20:55.140 --> 00:20:57.180
So you've got both of those.

250
00:20:57.299 --> 00:21:02.279
Can we just pause once more to appreciate the elegance of the word trendsolore?

251
00:21:02.339 --> 00:21:02.940
Oh, yeah.

252
00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:03.900
It's brilliant.

253
00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:05.039
Perfect, perfect.

254
00:21:05.099 --> 00:21:07.019
The same metre as Gallifrey.

255
00:21:07.079 --> 00:21:08.519
It's not a space name.

256
00:21:08.579 --> 00:21:11.640
It's a brilliant word and a superb edition.

257
00:21:11.700 --> 00:21:12.900
Probably.

258
00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:15.960
Like most of the location work on this episode.

259
00:21:16.019 --> 00:21:20.400
Yeah, the doctor's last resting place on Rand's Corps Av.

260
00:21:20.940 --> 00:21:23.819
So it is in Spain, isn't it?

261
00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:25.500
One of your hot countries that...

262
00:21:25.500 --> 00:21:26.819
Well, it's Tenerife.

263
00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:27.599
Okay, all right.

264
00:21:27.660 --> 00:21:28.319
Yeah, yeah.

265
00:21:28.380 --> 00:21:29.279
And there's a fair amount.

266
00:21:29.339 --> 00:21:32.940
We've done Spain before in town called Mercy.

267
00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:34.500
Yeah, Asylum of the Daleks.

268
00:21:34.619 --> 00:21:36.299
And Killer Moon.

269
00:21:36.359 --> 00:21:36.900
Okay.

270
00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:38.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah Mazarote.

271
00:21:38.579 --> 00:21:38.880
Yeah.

272
00:21:38.940 --> 00:21:46.319
And so we're in Spain for that that superb sequence. sort of under the shadow of the plane in the in the square.

273
00:21:46.380 --> 00:21:48.359
I didn't see any burnt out cinders.

274
00:21:51.359 --> 00:22:00.359
So then, of course, we're off to see the doctor and there were a series of maybe 3 short clips.

275
00:22:00.420 --> 00:22:01.380
Does anyone remember that?

276
00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:01.980
We watched them.

277
00:22:02.039 --> 00:22:03.359
Tom and I watch too.

278
00:22:03.420 --> 00:22:05.400
So what do they do?

279
00:22:05.460 --> 00:22:07.019
They explain who Bors is.

280
00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:10.079
Well, the 1st one is actually a deleted scene.

281
00:22:10.140 --> 00:22:14.759
It's not presented as such, but it was in the script for the magician's apprentice.

282
00:22:14.819 --> 00:22:15.119
Okay.

283
00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:20.759
And that's the whole bit with, is it Oheila, the, uh, Oheila, the sister, uh, on Carna.

284
00:22:20.819 --> 00:22:26.519
And I guess it would have come at some point after Colony staff has been to visit the sisterhood.

285
00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:37.500
And there's a whole scene where the doctor and a healer are talking about whether he's going to go and visit Davros and there's the whole sort of a sort of moral conjury and...

286
00:22:37.500 --> 00:22:39.420
It's quite sort of interrogates the quandary.

287
00:22:39.539 --> 00:22:45.960
And it is a very, very good scene, but I think it was probably good that it was excised because it slows things down at the wrong moment.

288
00:22:46.079 --> 00:22:51.900
And I think what we end up with still keeps the doctor off stage a little bit.

289
00:22:51.960 --> 00:23:01.380
So he has been there, like there's that thing where Oheila says, um, the doctor's behind you, always behind you, standing right behind you in one step ahead.

290
00:23:01.380 --> 00:23:06.000
And I think Saf goes and we see that the doctor's there.

291
00:23:06.059 --> 00:23:16.200
But he's in shadow. his, you know, so his physical appearance is kind of downplayed a little bit and we see very little of him and that's kind of the 1st that we see of him in that colony staff thing.

292
00:23:16.259 --> 00:23:30.720
I think, like the colony staff thing is less fun and interesting than the comparable scene in Good Man Goes to War, where we introduce all of those characters who are going to come and form the posse, I think.

293
00:23:30.779 --> 00:23:35.339
But there's a brilliant moment where they're talking about where is the doctor?

294
00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:39.720
You know, I think Kate and the unit woman, where is the doctor?

295
00:23:39.720 --> 00:23:44.099
And then we just cut and it says Essex down the bottom of the screen.

296
00:23:44.099 --> 00:23:45.539
And the doctor's not even in it.

297
00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:56.279
It's just this sort of baying crowd with Essex for just like a few seconds and then we come back to sort of talking about where the doctor is and then eventually we sort of end up in that area.

298
00:23:56.339 --> 00:23:58.680
Well, there's the sequence, isn't there?

299
00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:05.940
He goes to see the sister of Khan, and he goes to the shadow proclamation as well, which I'd kind of forgotten that you get the same, same woman.

300
00:24:06.059 --> 00:24:07.079
That buffy head actress.

301
00:24:07.140 --> 00:24:07.619
Yeah, yeah.

302
00:24:07.619 --> 00:24:11.880
But I like to imagine that, you know, he's gone to like 1000s of places.

303
00:24:11.940 --> 00:24:14.819
He sort of turns up and, you know, are some pteroreptils.

304
00:24:14.819 --> 00:24:16.559
Have you seen the doctor?

305
00:24:16.619 --> 00:24:19.619
Goes and visits his cousins, the Mara.

306
00:24:19.859 --> 00:24:23.519
Yeah, I mean, how many people has he gone round to ask?

307
00:24:23.579 --> 00:24:25.559
And there's this strange suggestion as well?

308
00:24:25.619 --> 00:24:28.920
Because when they eventually do catch up with him, he finds him there.

309
00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:33.720
The Daleks have clearly already infiltrated boars and others there.

310
00:24:33.779 --> 00:24:38.940
So do the Daleks already know that the doctor's there and they procure the TARDIS and all of that?

311
00:24:39.000 --> 00:24:42.480
Or are they working independently of colony staff and Davros?

312
00:24:42.539 --> 00:24:45.900
Yeah, feels like Davros and the Daleks aren't talking to each other.

313
00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:50.880
Oh, I got the impression that somehow the technology would come with stuff.

314
00:24:50.940 --> 00:24:53.759
I just think that's a gap in the plot.

315
00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:59.759
As in, yeah, he's there and he is linked with our brother. like I in Bordswell, yeah.

316
00:24:59.819 --> 00:25:03.240
Well, you know, like, because that's a whole, it's a Nanite thing, isn't it?

317
00:25:03.299 --> 00:25:04.380
Like, isn't that established?

318
00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:05.099
Oh, something.

319
00:25:05.099 --> 00:25:05.460
Yeah.

320
00:25:05.460 --> 00:25:10.740
So it's only at the point South arrives that he's able...

321
00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:11.640
Okay, that makes sense.

322
00:25:11.700 --> 00:25:12.299
So it could do.

323
00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:14.160
You're right, though. not spelled out.

324
00:25:14.220 --> 00:25:15.180
Ted Cannon.

325
00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:17.819
He is surprisingly easy to find.

326
00:25:17.880 --> 00:25:25.380
It is kind of that, you know, show all the dots on the map now, delete all of the ones except for the one where he is now and bang, he's there.

327
00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:29.519
And colony stuff does turn up on Khan while the doctor is there.

328
00:25:29.579 --> 00:25:32.220
So I guess that he hits Earth.

329
00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:35.400
Maybe... he was there at the shadow proclamation as well.

330
00:25:35.460 --> 00:25:36.779
Right behind you.

331
00:25:36.900 --> 00:25:42.299
He's just been following her around listening to everything he says right behind you in one step behind.

332
00:25:42.420 --> 00:25:45.420
And so he digs a well or something.

333
00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:47.579
There's another one where he's digging a well.

334
00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:50.220
It goes on for a fair while, that...

335
00:25:50.220 --> 00:25:52.500
It's called the doctor's meditation, is it called?

336
00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:55.559
And I think that's quite long and it's slightly more comic, isn't it?

337
00:25:55.619 --> 00:25:59.160
Because it's got the whole digging for water in about 20 different places.

338
00:25:59.220 --> 00:26:03.480
Yeah, it's a bit of fun, but it's not really essential for the story.

339
00:26:03.539 --> 00:26:05.460
It was a day of shooting, you know.

340
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:06.480
Yeah.

341
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:08.579
And that wasn't a deleted scene, though.

342
00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:13.259
No, that was done as a deliberate for the website, I guess.

343
00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:14.880
Or was it on the DVD?

344
00:26:14.940 --> 00:26:22.980
It was first, I think, was 1st released with the film showings in 3D of the season finale from last season.

345
00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:24.359
Oh, okay.

346
00:26:24.420 --> 00:26:26.039
And then released on the website.

347
00:26:26.099 --> 00:26:28.740
So it was available internationally before it was available.

348
00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:44.039
I think a lot of these things were done, you know, basically, as a little trick of funding, Stephen would say to me, well, we get these, you know, sometimes blue, you know, DVD Blu-ray, deleted scenes, and we're, you know, we promised them an exclusive and that.

349
00:26:44.099 --> 00:26:58.200
But basically, it was to get some extra money, which they could spend on the actual episodes, you know, because if you're using the same actors and same sets and everything else, essentially, it's a clever way of increasing your budget for the actual episode.

350
00:26:58.259 --> 00:26:59.940
Yeah, horse follows card.

351
00:27:00.059 --> 00:27:07.259
And actually, if you look at those scenes with Colony South, who does look great, but maybe not as great as I hoped he would look from the concept.

352
00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:14.400
Once you realise, as Tom told me, that he's actually travelling around on a segue underneath that big cloak, you can't unsee it.

353
00:27:14.460 --> 00:27:17.099
Every time he swishes into shot, you're like, he's on a segue.

354
00:27:18.539 --> 00:27:26.640
He makes some comment about a bunch of snakes in a dress at some point, like the doctor's dismissive of him and says that he's wearing a dress, which I think is pretty great.

355
00:27:26.700 --> 00:27:27.779
The rest of snakes in a dress.

356
00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:28.740
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

357
00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:32.640
It's a pretty great idea It's, it is very kind of weird though.

358
00:27:32.700 --> 00:27:39.000
You know, when the doctor meets Stavros, Davros doesn't even understand the question, what planet are we on?

359
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:41.880
You know, at the very beginning, what planet are we?

360
00:27:41.940 --> 00:27:43.259
He doesn't even understand the question.

361
00:27:43.319 --> 00:27:47.220
And of course, where the doctor originally needs to have Ross ingenesis of the Daleks.

362
00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:48.960
He thinks there's no inhabited planets.

363
00:27:49.019 --> 00:28:02.400
And now having Davros, obviously having gone through the time war and stuff like that, embedded in this sort of weird, cheesy, Moffattish space science fiction thing with Maldivarium and all of that. sort of stuff.

364
00:28:02.460 --> 00:28:13.500
It seems weird and incongruous that Davros has this sort of strange sidekick who is trying to, like, you know, that's fun, but it is slightly on, I think.

365
00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:15.000
I said Nider had let himself go.

366
00:28:15.059 --> 00:28:15.960
Yes, that's right.

367
00:28:16.740 --> 00:28:27.779
At least the sleight of hand, which is in the next episode of the fact that colony stuff is actually integrated into Davros's technology.

368
00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:28.319
Yeah.

369
00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:31.500
Like the snakes are part of his life support system.

370
00:28:31.559 --> 00:28:32.099
Yeah.

371
00:28:32.099 --> 00:28:44.279
And there's, there are like this banding on the cables. that's clearly visible until you see that it's that there's snakes, the next episode, you don't consciously realise it.

372
00:28:44.339 --> 00:28:45.000
Yeah, yeah.

373
00:28:51.180 --> 00:29:04.680
The interesting thing about the sort of early Danros appearances is there isn't really a sort of gap for things in between, it's a Genesis follows, it's followed by destiny, and that's pretty much followed by resurrection.

374
00:29:04.740 --> 00:29:06.059
Yeah, it has to be, does it?

375
00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:17.339
So what point, I mean, obviously the doctor tells Davros about, you know, future Dalek events in Genesis, but there's a sort of a point where he's never been off Scaro until Resurrection of the Daleks.

376
00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:19.799
Well, I mean, yeah, that's right.

377
00:29:19.859 --> 00:29:23.759
And then he's in suspended animation in Resurrection of the Daleks as well.

378
00:29:23.819 --> 00:29:24.660
That's the idea.

379
00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:31.559
So he becomes quite sort of, you know, aware of the rest of the universe quite suddenly, really.

380
00:29:31.559 --> 00:29:42.660
You know, it's, from Davril's point of view, given that Destiny, you know, it might be a long time later, but this is all sort of in the period of a few days, isn't it?

381
00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:44.640
his perspective.

382
00:29:44.700 --> 00:29:47.460
Like a week ago, he didn't believe there was life on other planets.

383
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:47.819
No.

384
00:29:47.940 --> 00:29:51.779
So what happens to him is what happens to the Daleks, isn't it?

385
00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:54.960
You know, the Daleks are just on this one planet stuck in their city.

386
00:29:54.960 --> 00:30:11.279
And then David Whittaker realises they're the doctor's mythic enemy and turns them into that, I think, you know, their space opera antagonists in the in the Terry Nation stories in the Heartnel era, but then they become this sort of mythic evil force.

387
00:30:11.339 --> 00:30:15.359
And I think the same thing happens to Davros as well.

388
00:30:15.420 --> 00:30:25.380
And it probably doesn't happen in the classic series so much just because, I mean, he's sort of getting there, isn't he, towards the end of revel?

389
00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:33.539
Well, yeah, and and remembrance, you know, where he's sort of ranting Hitler figure on the black and white tally sort of thing.

390
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:45.119
But I think it really, really properly happens in David Tennant's era where he becomes the antagonist in the time war and then has all this sort of weird mythology around him that we never quite get.

391
00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:51.240
Yeah, well, remembrance, of course, Davros is, you know, he's very aware of time lord technology.

392
00:30:51.299 --> 00:31:00.299
I mean, that's all sort of preempting the time war kind of stuff, but there is that suggestion that that's sort of on the cusp of the time war starting to happen, isn't it?

393
00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:02.819
And that is one of the things that I like about this episode.

394
00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:05.640
It's not Davros as the ranting head of an army.

395
00:31:05.700 --> 00:31:12.480
It reduced it down to, as it was in Genesis, Davros and the doctor in a room together facing each other.

396
00:31:12.539 --> 00:31:25.980
And I think that Moffat may have been quoted in interviews as saying that he was kind of hoping to recapture that, and he certainly has a little bit where he plays the audio, you know.

397
00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:28.440
I thought you might just miss our conversations.

398
00:31:28.500 --> 00:31:28.799
Yes.

399
00:31:28.859 --> 00:31:31.079
You get you get all of the little clips.

400
00:31:31.140 --> 00:31:34.500
I think every previous Davros story is represented, isn't it?

401
00:31:34.500 --> 00:31:37.799
You get a bit of Colin and Sylvester and David Tenner as well.

402
00:31:37.859 --> 00:31:42.779
Yeah, you know, Stephen asked Russell to write this to Powder.

403
00:31:42.839 --> 00:31:43.380
Oh, really?

404
00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:43.920
Yes.

405
00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:45.480
And he said, no.

406
00:31:45.539 --> 00:31:50.160
He's literally...

407
00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:51.539
He never wanted to come back.

408
00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:53.819
Well, Stephen asked Russell a lot of times to come back.

409
00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:54.359
Did he?

410
00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:59.220
Russell was doing other stuff and didn't want to know.

411
00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:00.180
He did a bit of distance.

412
00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:03.599
Yeah, well, it was still, I suppose, what, 5 years on?

413
00:32:03.660 --> 00:32:04.500
Yeah, yeah.

414
00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:14.700
But I also have a question about, does this change retrospectively, what we see in Genesis of the Dalis, because Davros has already met the doctor.

415
00:32:14.759 --> 00:32:25.140
If he remembers, if he remembers all of this, he's seen the DARDIS, he's got the Sonic screwdriver, presumably he's kept, he's got it somewhere there in Genesis. keeping it.

416
00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:31.200
At what point does Davros think that's the same guy, or does he?

417
00:32:31.259 --> 00:32:32.880
Does he not realise until later?

418
00:32:32.940 --> 00:32:34.619
No, I think he does, doesn't he?

419
00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:37.859
I think he does I think the implication, though, is...

420
00:32:37.859 --> 00:32:52.140
And maybe it's some Thor dialogue or maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I thought there was an implication that he had remembered, as in, it was deep, deep, deep in his memory, his 1000s and 1000s of years old at this point, possibly 1000000s.

421
00:32:52.259 --> 00:32:54.359
Yeah, ancient, ancient.

422
00:32:54.420 --> 00:32:58.140
And this traumatic memory from his childhood has popped back up.

423
00:32:58.259 --> 00:32:59.039
Has resurfaced.

424
00:32:59.099 --> 00:32:59.579
Yes.

425
00:32:59.579 --> 00:33:01.559
Or wasn't there in the 1st place.

426
00:33:01.619 --> 00:33:08.519
Yeah, like this, this whole thing that Moffatt loves to do with, when, when does, has it changed time, you mean?

427
00:33:08.579 --> 00:33:11.460
somehow gone back and it's... and even in an episode.

428
00:33:11.579 --> 00:33:17.880
At the beginning of the episode and the end of the episode, like other scenes you're seeing often repeated.

429
00:33:18.539 --> 00:33:19.079
The same scene.

430
00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:25.619
The way that the doctor is identified often through his regenerations is hair of an idiot by the TARDIS.

431
00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:30.000
Oh, by the TARDIS isn't present in Genesis of the Daleks.

432
00:33:30.059 --> 00:33:30.960
No, that's true.

433
00:33:31.079 --> 00:33:32.400
Yeah, that is true.

434
00:33:32.460 --> 00:33:32.700
Yeah.

435
00:33:32.759 --> 00:33:35.279
I mean, he doesn't see either Tartisan destiny.

436
00:33:35.339 --> 00:33:36.359
Resurrection.

437
00:33:36.420 --> 00:33:40.559
There's a whole thing about, you know, sending Daleks to capture the Tardis.

438
00:33:40.619 --> 00:33:42.119
I'm not sure whether Davros is involved.

439
00:33:42.180 --> 00:33:43.140
Yeah, at what point does that?

440
00:33:43.140 --> 00:33:45.420
In Revelation, the TARDIS is off distant.

441
00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:47.579
I mean, it does hold if we want to go into this.

442
00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:49.259
Yeah, we want to.

443
00:33:49.319 --> 00:33:52.079
Genesis of the Daleks changes history, doesn't it?

444
00:33:52.140 --> 00:33:53.819
But it obviously doesn't change.

445
00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:54.420
Well, it does.

446
00:33:54.480 --> 00:33:55.799
It changes history in a way.

447
00:33:55.859 --> 00:33:57.960
And so that's on the table as a thing.

448
00:33:58.019 --> 00:34:01.559
I mean, is it possible that we can imagine?

449
00:34:01.619 --> 00:34:04.440
I think, look, I think we're just not supposed to think about it too hard.

450
00:34:04.500 --> 00:34:05.279
Do you know what I mean?

451
00:34:05.339 --> 00:34:19.260
If you want to head Canada, you can go to the effort, but I do think that like there is something audacious and fun and interesting about Stephen Moffat inserting the Dollar Street into Davros's childhood.

452
00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:20.219
That's really great.

453
00:34:20.219 --> 00:34:32.880
And to get the doctor to reenact the very thing that Tom was talking to him about in his 1st story, like to make that suddenly about him about Davros himself.

454
00:34:32.940 --> 00:34:41.880
So, I don't know, maybe maybe Capaldi's 1st trip back to the war on Scaro changes history or perhaps.

455
00:34:41.940 --> 00:34:51.599
Because also if the doctor thinks during most of this story that he abandoned Davros there, he must assume that Davros survived anyway.

456
00:34:51.659 --> 00:34:52.559
Some other way.

457
00:34:52.619 --> 00:34:55.320
Unless it was Davros Jones, I'm just saying.

458
00:34:55.380 --> 00:34:57.000
It wasn't the same one, yeah.

459
00:34:57.119 --> 00:34:59.219
I mean, is that why he thinks he's dying?

460
00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:01.860
You know, like he's going back here.

461
00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:04.679
He knows it's a trap.

462
00:35:04.739 --> 00:35:10.440
So he's going back there with no hope as we learn next episode.

463
00:35:10.500 --> 00:35:25.619
He thinks he's going to die because Davros remembers now what the doctor did to him as a child and he's going back there ashamed of what he did, ashamed of leaving him behind.

464
00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:31.380
So he's gone back there just to pay the price for his own sort of cruelty.

465
00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:44.159
And given that he's been interrogating, if he's a good man or not, you know, to have him then do this. and and feel ashamed of it and both missy and and Clara identify that he's ashamed.

466
00:35:44.219 --> 00:35:44.820
Is that it?

467
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:46.920
He's just going back to pay the price.

468
00:35:47.159 --> 00:35:49.619
Moffat's done this a couple of times.

469
00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:54.300
He likes to delve into the psyche of characters by going back to the childhood.

470
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:56.579
So we did it, obviously, with the doctor in listen.

471
00:35:56.639 --> 00:36:00.900
He did it with Kazran Sardic in a Christmas carol.

472
00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:13.920
And again, pulling that same trick where he doesn't do it by having a flashback, he does it by having the doctor going back into his childhood so that it's actually happening in real-time kind of chronological order as far as the story's concerned.

473
00:36:13.980 --> 00:36:25.619
I think the only place he cheats is in the is in the cliffhanger to this episode where we're actually seeing the doctor go back for a 2nd time, which he doesn't do until the end.

474
00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:26.940
It is misdirection.

475
00:36:27.059 --> 00:36:29.699
Yes, they had to give you a kind of WTF moment.

476
00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:48.539
Well, and it's also to play out that event in several different ways throughout the course of the two-part story because if it's okay to leave Davros behind, to get killed by the hand mines, because there's only a one in a 1000 chance of surviving.

477
00:36:48.599 --> 00:36:50.699
If that's okay.

478
00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:55.500
And the doctor's done it, he clearly doesn't think it's okay, but isn't it okay?

479
00:36:55.559 --> 00:37:00.960
Like if you prevent the Daleks from happening from a utilitarian standpoint?

480
00:37:01.019 --> 00:37:03.059
It's not a bad thing to do.

481
00:37:03.179 --> 00:37:07.500
But isn't it morally equivalent to going back and just shooting Davros in the face?

482
00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:10.260
You know, like, it's it's, well, it's passive, isn't it?

483
00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:21.179
Because interestingly, if the doctor hadn't turned up on Scar, he doesn't even know what planet he's on, then Davros would still have been in that position and nobody would have rescued him.

484
00:37:21.239 --> 00:37:25.019
So clearly the Daleks were still created anyway.

485
00:37:25.260 --> 00:37:27.000
Oh, I don't know.

486
00:37:27.059 --> 00:37:30.119
Does that mean, has the doctor changed history?

487
00:37:30.179 --> 00:37:34.500
Well, yeah, who rescued Davros originally if history's been changed.

488
00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:36.539
The doctor always rescued Deveros.

489
00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:37.260
He always did.

490
00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:43.619
Yeah, but then, oh, yeah. doctor is essentially responsible for everything.

491
00:37:43.679 --> 00:37:58.500
So if the doctor hadn't, you know, lived to become Peter Capaldi, which we already know is past his regeneration cycle, then he would never have lived around to have rescued Davros and this is making my head hurt.

492
00:37:58.860 --> 00:38:01.260
Well, yeah.

493
00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:05.519
So if Baby Davrok gets trapped by hand minds.

494
00:38:05.579 --> 00:38:12.179
I mean, the real reason he survives is because the doctor goes back and saves him at the end of the witches familiar.

495
00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:19.679
But he thinks at this point that Davros has been saved somehow, and he's right.

496
00:38:19.739 --> 00:38:21.360
He just doesn't know that it's by him.

497
00:38:21.900 --> 00:38:25.019
There's a few examples of this sort of thing, aren't there?

498
00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:37.739
It's like, you know, if you if you take that view of time travel, is time being changed or did it always happen and it's like that with the, say, the day of the doctor and the moment and the John Hurt, did he always do that?

499
00:38:37.800 --> 00:38:43.860
Or is it only because, you know, and it's sort of left ambiguous you can kind of take it whichever way?

500
00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:44.940
Does it really matter?

501
00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:45.480
I don't know.

502
00:38:45.539 --> 00:38:46.980
I think Siri 6.

503
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:54.059
It definitely has the doctor being shot dead on Lake Silencio, and then he goes back at the very end.

504
00:38:54.059 --> 00:38:56.340
And gets the idea of how to fix it.

505
00:38:56.400 --> 00:38:57.420
Yeah, yeah.

506
00:38:57.480 --> 00:39:04.739
And it's almost an afterthought, which is part of the fun of that finale where he goes, oh, yes, and we discover that.

507
00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:10.019
He actually physically ducks back into the room. ducks back into the room and gets the tesselator to go and do it for him.

508
00:39:10.199 --> 00:39:19.320
And so the way he can change time without there being a problem without it breaking time the way that river broke time is by doing it undetectably.

509
00:39:19.380 --> 00:39:23.699
We have that idea of fixed points we get, we hear, what about?

510
00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:31.800
I don't mean they mention fixed points in this Davros story, but there is the idea that as long as things appear to be as they are.

511
00:39:32.280 --> 00:39:34.260
Unfold generally as they're supposed to.

512
00:39:34.320 --> 00:39:39.480
So everything that we saw on Lake Salencio is, it happened.

513
00:39:39.539 --> 00:39:41.219
It just wasn't what we thought we were seeing.

514
00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:47.400
Or or it happened and then he changed it so in such a way that it's undetectable from the outside.

515
00:39:47.460 --> 00:39:49.139
Like, we just can't tell.

516
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:53.579
And the doctor really is there on Lake Salencio, just as he was originally.

517
00:39:53.639 --> 00:39:55.739
He's just tiny in his own arm.

518
00:39:55.800 --> 00:40:01.199
But then, you know, Stephen Moffat plays with this stuff more than any other writer has done.

519
00:40:01.260 --> 00:40:06.119
And it's intriguing, but it's also, of course, it's going to do your head in because it's...

520
00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:08.940
Yeah, the idea. that he's turning over in his head as he goes to sleep.

521
00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:12.360
Where's a good Blinovic limitation effect when you need it?

522
00:40:12.420 --> 00:40:14.820
We get it a lot more in the next story.

523
00:40:14.940 --> 00:40:20.880
He does a whole narration, doesn't he, about where did I get the idea from when it becomes a closed loop?

524
00:40:20.940 --> 00:40:21.840
Yeah.

525
00:40:21.900 --> 00:40:39.119
Yes, a friend of the podcast, Anson, who is a friend of Brendan's, mentions the idea that the reason the doctor decides to go back at the end of, which is familiar, is because he's aware that there's a kind of grandfather paradox.

526
00:40:39.179 --> 00:40:41.460
He has to have gone back to save him.

527
00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:45.179
And if he didn't, then time breaks in some way.

528
00:40:45.239 --> 00:40:57.840
But I actually think at that point, because the reason he goes back is because Clara has shown what has asked for mercy. about the word mercy being in the in the vocabulary.

529
00:40:57.900 --> 00:41:00.960
But of course, we do have a, we're getting into part 2 territory.

530
00:41:01.019 --> 00:41:01.920
Yeah, we are.

531
00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:03.360
It's the danger of...

532
00:41:03.420 --> 00:41:05.219
This more than anything else, I think.

533
00:41:05.340 --> 00:41:09.179
Because Moffatt very frequently tries to make the 2 parts quite distinct.

534
00:41:09.239 --> 00:41:15.360
Here, they are one story in 2 different phases, but they are very, very closely.

535
00:41:15.420 --> 00:41:18.780
Do you think they chose mercy because they couldn't use pity?

536
00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:20.820
Yeah, well, there's already...

537
00:41:21.239 --> 00:41:23.099
Moffat's just been watching Genesis.

538
00:41:23.159 --> 00:41:25.559
It's powered off an entire two-parter in his head.

539
00:41:25.619 --> 00:41:28.920
Stephen had had a Dalek saying mercy.

540
00:41:28.980 --> 00:41:32.280
River Song makes a darling, same mercy in the Big Bang.

541
00:41:32.340 --> 00:41:32.579
Yes.

542
00:41:32.579 --> 00:41:36.480
So the word is that the doctor isn't present to hear that. to be fair.

543
00:41:36.539 --> 00:41:41.099
So he doesn't know how the word mercy gets into the Daleks vocabulary.

544
00:41:41.159 --> 00:41:42.480
But now we know.

545
00:41:42.539 --> 00:41:48.539
Yeah, so I don't think that's a continuity error, but we have heard of Dalek say mercy before.

546
00:41:48.599 --> 00:42:00.960
It may be why that word is chosen because we know that the word pity isn't in the Dalek vocabulary bank because Davros appeals to it in order to not get shot dead at the end of Genesis of the Daleks.

547
00:42:01.019 --> 00:42:12.179
The very, very similar word mercy is somehow in the Daleks vocabulary, in the Big Bang, and is the show no.

548
00:42:12.239 --> 00:42:15.659
No, but is this how it gets there?

549
00:42:15.719 --> 00:42:24.599
Is Moffat explaining how that word is available for the Dalek to use when it's being confronted by River Song?

550
00:42:24.659 --> 00:42:26.340
I mean, I wouldn't put it past him.

551
00:42:26.519 --> 00:42:29.099
Or it might just be he's forgotten.

552
00:42:29.159 --> 00:42:31.079
It may well just be that as well.

553
00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:32.340
Or it might be.

554
00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:33.900
Hes forgotten, but someone mentioned that.

555
00:42:33.960 --> 00:42:35.940
He says, yes, that's what I was doing.

556
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:37.199
That's very him, yeah.

557
00:42:55.619 --> 00:43:08.219
So, the other element here that I think is really interesting is the fact that we go back to the version of Scaro from the original Daleks.

558
00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:21.900
We've said before, that in a way, Moffatt isn't super interested in the Daleks themselves, and we never have just a sort of straightforward Dalek story in the Moffatt era with perhaps the exception of Victory of the Daleks.

559
00:43:21.960 --> 00:43:36.840
So here he's just using, because it's a story about ideas like the doctor, the master davros, the Daleks, he takes them back to the most kind of iconic version.

560
00:43:36.900 --> 00:43:39.119
And that's a great moment, isn't it?

561
00:43:39.179 --> 00:43:51.300
When the, like, Missy discovers that the spaceship is, yeah, and the horror of they've brought it back and then we, the planet appears and the, the, yeah, the city from, you know, the dead planet, basically.

562
00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:57.719
Yeah, yeah. visually they base that on the dialect comic strips from the 60s.

563
00:43:57.780 --> 00:44:03.000
But it really seems to me like a recreation of that model.

564
00:44:03.059 --> 00:44:07.079
You know, is it a forced perspective model or something that they're watching from the cliff?

565
00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:09.719
Yeah, yeah, they're watching from the cliff looks the same.

566
00:44:09.780 --> 00:44:14.280
Like the art director was very clearly told. look at that Yeah, yeah.

567
00:44:14.280 --> 00:44:15.119
The comic strip.

568
00:44:15.179 --> 00:44:22.860
It is a shame in some ways that that didn't extend to the interiors because I think that big room that the Daleks are in is basically just a big room.

569
00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:27.780
Whereas it does extend to the interiors because the doorways...

570
00:44:27.780 --> 00:44:29.159
Yeah, it does get doors.

571
00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:30.179
It's coming down on the angles.

572
00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:31.920
But that one big control room.

573
00:44:31.980 --> 00:44:37.920
I just wanted to be the control room from the Dalek with the Rell counter and all that kind of stuff.

574
00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:45.360
What it does have is the dramatically sloped Ken Adam roof, like the Ken Adam ceiling and thing.

575
00:44:45.420 --> 00:44:47.039
So it is a sort of a piece.

576
00:44:47.099 --> 00:44:53.099
But those doors which come down in a sort of arc and they kind of make the same noise?

577
00:44:53.159 --> 00:44:54.840
They kind of...

578
00:44:54.900 --> 00:45:03.059
Well, of course, the sound effect that we do get, apart from the normal Dalek heartbeat, which always turns up, is the destiny of the Dalek's alarm.

579
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:10.440
So when the Missy and Clara are in the, well, they're not in a spacecraft, but they're actually in a building, aren't they?

580
00:45:10.500 --> 00:45:12.360
But it sets the alarm off.

581
00:45:12.420 --> 00:45:13.380
It is absolutely that.

582
00:45:13.500 --> 00:45:15.900
It's that really high pitched drink?

583
00:45:16.260 --> 00:45:17.760
so great.

584
00:45:18.179 --> 00:45:19.739
So good.

585
00:45:19.860 --> 00:45:20.579
So good.

586
00:45:20.639 --> 00:45:32.880
I was going to ask what you guys all think about having all the different sort of Dalek models, the different types of Dalek together because we don't generally see that.

587
00:45:32.940 --> 00:45:37.739
You get all the bronze ones or in other stories in Death to the Daleks, they're all silver.

588
00:45:37.980 --> 00:45:46.679
We get different colours for commander Daleks and that sort of thing, but generally, this is really unusual to sort of see, they're all, like, they're all there together.

589
00:45:46.739 --> 00:45:57.179
So I think that what ends up happening is that we've got the new paradigm dialects in Victory of the Dialects and that kind of stuffs things up a bit.

590
00:45:57.239 --> 00:46:06.900
And so when they next come back in asylum of the dialects, we're actually also promised that every dialect ever will appear in that.

591
00:46:06.960 --> 00:46:15.420
And so down on the asylum planet, we get to see lots of different types of Daleks like we do this time here.

592
00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:27.179
I think, again, because he's trying to represent the Daleks as an icon, we have, and we see very early on, don't we?

593
00:46:27.239 --> 00:46:33.840
Like the Dalek with the blue bumps and stuff from the original Daleks, like, so we're kind of taking it back.

594
00:46:33.900 --> 00:46:40.440
And I think notably absent are any paradigm daleks from that shot, are any in there in that control room?

595
00:46:40.500 --> 00:46:41.340
don't think there are.

596
00:46:41.460 --> 00:46:48.840
Yes, in the in the asylum, of course, plot wise, it sort of makes sense that they're all old Daleks that have been...

597
00:46:48.900 --> 00:46:59.340
So yeah, except though, that in a way that when Russell updates the Daleks, it's possible that we could imagine that they were always kind of meant to look like that.

598
00:46:59.340 --> 00:47:05.460
This is what the Daleks look like and now we can afford to realise it and we don't ever see those past Daleks.

599
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:13.980
Moffat doesn't do that sort of stuff, which is why, you know, for instance, he'll bring old cybermen back and things like that.

600
00:47:14.039 --> 00:47:14.280
Here.

601
00:47:14.340 --> 00:47:17.460
It's, you know, the Daleks are a type of iconography.

602
00:47:17.519 --> 00:47:18.539
They have...

603
00:47:18.539 --> 00:47:20.159
It's an interesting sci-fi thing, isn't it?

604
00:47:20.159 --> 00:47:23.880
Were the Klingons in Star Trek always supposed to look like that or were they?

605
00:47:23.940 --> 00:47:24.659
You know, it's like that.

606
00:47:24.900 --> 00:47:28.079
Is it just the limitations of 60s telly?

607
00:47:28.139 --> 00:47:37.920
It's the way they update the Borg, say, for 1st contact where they do have the same silhouette and look the same, but it's an entirely superior makeup job as opposed to just whacking on some white makeup.

608
00:47:37.980 --> 00:47:44.099
Well, I mean, you know, the Klingons thing is something that they just make a joke about, remember, in Deep Space Nine.

609
00:47:44.159 --> 00:47:46.320
Trouble tribulation?

610
00:47:46.320 --> 00:47:48.300
Yeah, they have warfare to say we don't talk about that.

611
00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:56.099
And they try and repair it in enterprise and now, of course, Strangely Worlds has completely thrown that out the window as well.

612
00:47:56.159 --> 00:48:00.420
It's funnier when it's a joke, I think, because actually, we all know what the real world is.

613
00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:01.619
Yeah, that's right.

614
00:48:01.679 --> 00:48:08.280
And so I think Moffat does that because, like in some sense, I think the paradigm Daleks put him in a sort of weird position.

615
00:48:08.340 --> 00:48:11.579
Like if he's just going to do Daleks, what's he going to do?

616
00:48:11.639 --> 00:48:13.079
Is he going to do paradigm dialects?

617
00:48:13.139 --> 00:48:15.780
Well, there's one of them left or something?

618
00:48:15.840 --> 00:48:22.440
Well, I know he said, because this is the 1st time in quite a while we've had a story on Scaro.

619
00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:29.519
And so, you know, he wanted to sort of portray them like a race.

620
00:48:29.579 --> 00:48:31.019
So they're all different.

621
00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:34.800
So if you always just have all bronze Daleks, all paradise.

622
00:48:34.860 --> 00:48:44.159
There is that kind of idea that they're all sort of identical and they are kind of almost sort of clone type things, you know, like soft robots kind of haven't really been.

623
00:48:44.219 --> 00:48:50.219
But yes, but if you have them together, you know, that actually does make them feel more like a race, there are differences.

624
00:48:50.639 --> 00:48:53.639
Also, in production terms.

625
00:48:53.699 --> 00:48:59.579
He'd been disappointed with the with how he'd been able to use all of those Daleks in the previous story.

626
00:48:59.639 --> 00:49:01.260
Yeah, right.

627
00:49:01.320 --> 00:49:01.679
Yeah.

628
00:49:01.739 --> 00:49:13.320
Well, there's a story about that because I think they were shooting in 2 different studios at the time they were doing some stuff at upper boat and some stuff down by the other rope lock.

629
00:49:13.380 --> 00:49:21.840
And for some of the key scenes, because they mention Daleks on Spiradon and all that.

630
00:49:21.900 --> 00:49:24.780
But they were in the wrong studio for that.

631
00:49:24.840 --> 00:49:32.159
So that's why it was a cock up, basically, but the Daleks that they needed for some of those scenes weren't in the right place at the right time.

632
00:49:32.219 --> 00:49:37.260
And it would have just cost, you know, it just been too disruptive to have, um, to have transported them.

633
00:49:37.320 --> 00:49:40.739
So it was a shame you didn't you don't really get to see them in the moments where you want to see them.

634
00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:47.880
And so you get the special weapons dialect, too, which we had sort of been promised in asylum.

635
00:49:47.940 --> 00:49:53.579
Does it appear in the background somewhere, but we get it a little bit more foregrounded here, which is pretty great.

636
00:49:53.639 --> 00:50:06.059
Having them all together in those scenes, even though obviously they've been updated immaculately for the 21st century, just makes me appreciate the style and the elegance of those original 60s dialects.

637
00:50:06.119 --> 00:50:07.739
Silver and the blue balls.

638
00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:10.619
It's just that dalek is incredible.

639
00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:16.860
I mean, I think Russell's update is very good, but what it actually maintains is the profile.

640
00:50:16.920 --> 00:50:17.940
The silhouette.

641
00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:19.559
Yeah, yeah, the silhouette is right.

642
00:50:19.619 --> 00:50:30.119
But, you know, if you think about the Daleks as an alien race, then having different versions of them coexisting on the same planet works and stuff.

643
00:50:30.179 --> 00:50:40.739
But if you think of the Daleks as a thing that's appeared on your telly for the last 50 years, that's an even more urgent reason, I think, to have lots of different versions of them throughout that.

644
00:50:41.340 --> 00:50:42.179
Of course both, yeah.

645
00:50:42.239 --> 00:50:53.639
It's a real, it's an interesting thing, and I don't know whether as we're all Doctor Who fans, and we kind of, you know, notice Daleks looking different, and sometimes very different, but are they that different, really?

646
00:50:53.699 --> 00:50:59.340
There was the whole idea about, do the Daleks look too ridiculous for a 2005 audience anyway?

647
00:50:59.400 --> 00:51:02.099
You know, actually, clearly it worked.

648
00:51:02.159 --> 00:51:08.880
But if you put in the magician's apprentice, you know, a 60s Dalek on screen, are people really going to go?

649
00:51:08.940 --> 00:51:12.900
That one looks, looks wrong or looks, I think we overthink this a little bit.

650
00:51:12.960 --> 00:51:18.480
Yeah, they just all look like Daleks, as Trini and or Susanna would say, design classic.

651
00:51:19.139 --> 00:51:24.360
I mean, there's so much effort in that Dalek story, the Shaman Dalek story.

652
00:51:24.420 --> 00:51:35.820
So much effort goes towards making them not ridiculous, like to make them credible, not just in the look, but also in the way they behave, in the script sort of generally, I think.

653
00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:46.619
And you know, I think this story is doing that to Davros as well, because Davros has been oversaturated with the audience to such an extent that he's just become a ranting dictator in a Dalek chair.

654
00:51:46.679 --> 00:51:58.619
And what this does is bring him back to being a character who sits opposite the doctor and interacts as a character rather than as Davros, who the audience knows.

655
00:51:58.679 --> 00:52:00.420
It's funny, isn't it, too?

656
00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:13.079
Because, you know, Missy has every right, as she points out, to be regarded as the doctor's arch nemesis, but she's kind of just sort of prancing about and being hilarious and stuff and not actually doing that.

657
00:52:13.199 --> 00:52:15.599
Yeah, she doesn't have a plan in this tour.

658
00:52:15.659 --> 00:52:16.920
She's just along for the ride.

659
00:52:16.980 --> 00:52:17.880
Yeah, yeah.

660
00:52:17.940 --> 00:52:22.019
They are the best master appearances when he or she is just along for the ride.

661
00:52:22.079 --> 00:52:22.619
Oh, yeah.

662
00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:23.099
Yeah, yeah.

663
00:52:23.159 --> 00:52:27.719
It's also a story where the daleks get talked about quite a bit before they turn up.

664
00:52:27.780 --> 00:52:34.320
I mean, of course, the Daleks are obviously, you can't do the story without the Daleks, but it's, you know, easier to dialect story.

665
00:52:34.380 --> 00:52:37.500
They don't turn up until 5 minutes from the end pretty much.

666
00:52:37.559 --> 00:52:40.380
But throughout the story.

667
00:52:40.440 --> 00:52:50.820
Obviously, the whole point is, you know, that this is this is the guy who created this, you know, absolutely destructive force that's had such an effect on the universe.

668
00:52:50.880 --> 00:52:52.860
It's actually pretty great.

669
00:52:52.920 --> 00:53:01.860
You know, the original run of the new series with Russell introduces all the kind of major antagonists in order, doesn't it?

670
00:53:01.920 --> 00:53:05.639
The Daleks, the cybermen, the master Davros.

671
00:53:05.699 --> 00:53:09.840
And don't forget the Santarians, obviously.

672
00:53:09.840 --> 00:53:11.219
That's where Alan series fell.

673
00:53:11.219 --> 00:53:11.820
And the macra.

674
00:53:11.880 --> 00:53:12.420
It does two.

675
00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:14.099
That's out of order.

676
00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:19.139
But for the people who are just watching the new series.

677
00:53:19.199 --> 00:53:24.000
The Daleks are around quite a bit before Davros actually arrives.

678
00:53:24.059 --> 00:53:29.639
There's that nice little illusion to him in to Van Staten in Dalek, isn't it?

679
00:53:29.699 --> 00:53:34.320
You know, that Christopher Ecklson's doctor doesn't name him, but we know who he's talking about.

680
00:53:34.380 --> 00:53:37.260
Yeah, I think all of that, that is really good.

681
00:53:37.320 --> 00:53:45.599
And so we've reestablished after, you know, the mid 70s that the Daleks work without Davrost.

682
00:53:45.659 --> 00:53:47.039
But I mean, this is Davros.

683
00:53:47.099 --> 00:53:50.159
This is a Davro story much, much more than it's a dalek story.

684
00:53:50.219 --> 00:53:56.099
And that's who the writer is interested in, I think.

685
00:53:56.159 --> 00:54:14.039
I actually think that the scenes where Missy and Clara and then the TARDIS are all sort of destroyed one by one and making Capoldi act that is a bit of a stretch.

686
00:54:14.099 --> 00:54:16.380
We know, do you know what I mean?

687
00:54:16.500 --> 00:54:17.460
We know that it's not real.

688
00:54:17.519 --> 00:54:24.900
Well, we know that we're in towards the end of episode one of a 13 part or 12 part series, the doctor doesn't know where he is in the season.

689
00:54:25.559 --> 00:54:28.980
Or what's going on, does he?

690
00:54:29.039 --> 00:54:30.239
I mean, he believes it.

691
00:54:30.300 --> 00:54:31.619
Yeah.

692
00:54:31.679 --> 00:54:33.480
It's interesting, isn't it?

693
00:54:33.539 --> 00:54:34.380
I mean, he doesn't have.

694
00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:40.500
I mean, maybe he maybe he should think that, you know, Missy would be smarter that she's figured something out.

695
00:54:40.559 --> 00:54:53.460
Clara, you know, could potentially just, you know, Clara isn't going to have had some clever plan to have got around this, but Missy, you know, we literally saw in the last story that she sort of zapped and is still around.

696
00:54:53.519 --> 00:54:54.300
Yes, yeah.

697
00:54:54.300 --> 00:54:55.199
And it's the same trick.

698
00:54:55.739 --> 00:55:06.960
Well, in fact, the next episode opens with a sort of extended thing on how that's the trick, which is pretty brilliant and leaves it open to kind of happen again all the time if it needs to.

699
00:55:07.019 --> 00:55:17.880
Yeah, I just kind of think, you know, in the bit in Romeo and Juliet, where Juliet dies, she takes the poison and her family thinks she's dead.

700
00:55:17.940 --> 00:55:22.500
Shakespeare doesn't attempt to kind of make them credibly sad about it.

701
00:55:22.559 --> 00:55:34.380
He does a comic scene where they're all kind of massive rat bags about it and being very silly because the audience knows that she's not dead because they've hurt the plot.

702
00:55:34.440 --> 00:55:41.639
And so we can't do proper grief, because that would kind of spoil the ending where we get sort of proper grief. sort of here to happen.

703
00:55:41.699 --> 00:55:56.760
I just think that Capaldi struggles to sell the Clara and Missy are really dead because we just know that they're not, and Capaldi knows they're not, and it really, it's only the doctor that's in the dark.

704
00:55:56.820 --> 00:55:57.420
Oh, we agree.

705
00:55:57.420 --> 00:55:58.679
It's the script.

706
00:55:58.739 --> 00:55:59.820
That's it.

707
00:55:59.880 --> 00:56:00.780
I would agree.

708
00:56:00.840 --> 00:56:02.699
It's chafing against that Doctor Who thing.

709
00:56:02.760 --> 00:56:10.139
We're willing to go along with the cliffhanger where the doctor or the companion is in danger because there's no big buildup from the other characters around it.

710
00:56:10.199 --> 00:56:19.320
Whereas when you actually make that the focal and give the doctor credible grief about it, you start to think, well, clearly it hasn't happened. why are we watching this?

711
00:56:19.380 --> 00:56:23.519
And I know that that's the point of driving him to the point where he is in the story.

712
00:56:23.579 --> 00:56:31.260
But as an audience member and your relationship to cliffhangers and what happens with them, it's a little, yeah.

713
00:56:31.320 --> 00:56:41.579
And so the cliffhanger is that we think that his grief has caused him to go back and actually shoot Baby Davros at...

714
00:56:41.639 --> 00:56:41.880
Yeah.

715
00:56:46.019 --> 00:56:48.840
He should have been played by Rory Jennings.

716
00:56:48.900 --> 00:56:50.579
He still looked young enough.

717
00:56:50.760 --> 00:56:57.659
Is that kid been in other things or do I just know him because I've watched this particular episode quite a lot?

718
00:56:57.719 --> 00:56:58.500
No?

719
00:56:58.500 --> 00:57:00.000
I don't know him from anything else.

720
00:57:00.059 --> 00:57:00.840
Should I Google?

721
00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:02.579
My name is Davros.

722
00:57:02.639 --> 00:57:03.599
Davros.

723
00:57:03.659 --> 00:57:04.679
I think he's pretty good.

724
00:57:04.739 --> 00:57:08.519
I don't think Todd has anything to complain about with this shot.

725
00:57:08.579 --> 00:57:09.719
And yet he will.

726
00:57:32.159 --> 00:57:37.980
Well, this now, we're obstacle roller skating in a quarry, so that's all the time we have for this week.

727
00:57:38.039 --> 00:57:43.980
We'll be back next week for an inevitably revolting revolution in the Witches familiar.

728
00:57:44.039 --> 00:57:59.159
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us at FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find all our social media links, as well as links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody IntoTera, Maximum Power, and Untitled Star Trek project.

729
00:57:59.219 --> 00:58:05.099
Until next time, enjoy your flight, and try not to get too excited by the artificial gravity.

730
00:58:05.159 --> 00:58:07.619
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

731
00:58:07.679 --> 00:58:08.460
Good night.

732
00:58:08.519 --> 00:58:09.119
Good night.

733
00:58:09.179 --> 00:58:09.900
Good night.

734
00:58:19.019 --> 00:58:23.940
That was Flight through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffiths, James Selwood, and Tom Spielsbury.

735
00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:26.039
Name arrangement by Cameron Lam.

736
00:58:26.099 --> 00:58:32.579
This episode, Making My Head Hurt, was recorded on the 30th of July, 2023, and released on the 17th of September.

737
00:58:33.239 --> 00:58:37.500
If Snogging Jane Austen isn't to your taste, and why would it be?

738
00:58:37.559 --> 00:58:39.780
Other regency novelists are also available?

739
00:58:40.079 --> 00:58:44.820
Things that I've heard about Sir Walter Scott would make your toes curl.

740
00:58:51.900 --> 00:58:53.760
Yeah what do you think?

741
00:58:53.820 --> 00:58:55.260
I think that's fine.

742
00:58:55.320 --> 00:58:58.019
And also, I want to get some brunch before Tom at the airport.

743
00:58:58.079 --> 00:59:00.960
Yeah, does anyone want to say anything that I can drop back in or?

744
00:59:00.960 --> 00:59:06.119
Because we talked about a few things you're saying mentioned, but I think you probably mentioned most of them now.

745
00:59:06.179 --> 00:59:08.280
Yeah, that was just conversation.

746
00:59:08.340 --> 00:59:09.599
Yeah.

747
00:59:09.659 --> 00:59:10.440
Yeah.

748
00:59:10.500 --> 00:59:11.880
I liked it though.

749
00:59:11.940 --> 00:59:23.880
It was nice to come back to it and it was not one that I've probably seen since it went out and yeah, he's got a few flaws, but I think it was it was pretty entertaining.

750
00:59:23.940 --> 00:59:24.960
You know, it's funny.

751
00:59:25.019 --> 00:59:31.559
I've tried to watch series 9 a few times because as I've said, it's the one I know the least well.

752
00:59:31.619 --> 00:59:38.940
And I've usually watched the Magician's Apprentice and then not gone on.

753
00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:44.280
And not because of the quality of it because I'm kind of terrible at kind of just sticking to something like that.

754
00:59:44.340 --> 00:59:47.039
So this is the one that I've seen a bunch of times.

755
00:59:47.099 --> 00:59:49.920
This, and obviously I've gone back and seen heaven sent a bunch of times.

756
00:59:49.980 --> 00:59:51.960
Is it an odd story to start a season with?

757
00:59:52.019 --> 00:59:53.099
Do you think?

758
00:59:53.159 --> 00:59:59.940
Yeah, a little bit, but does it Yeah, does it feel like it should be the big 1st 2 parter at sort of episodes 4 and five?

759
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:03.360
So, no, but Moffatt never does only once.

760
01:00:03.420 --> 01:00:06.000
Only once, I think, does Moffat?

761
01:00:06.059 --> 01:00:08.039
Oh, the 11th hour is different.

762
01:00:08.099 --> 01:00:09.960
It doesn't count because it's a new doctor.

763
01:00:10.019 --> 01:00:12.119
But it's only Bells of St.

764
01:00:12.119 --> 01:00:15.659
John where he does an RTD style season opener, isn't it?

765
01:00:15.719 --> 01:00:29.039
Yeah, I mean, I have a theory that, um, you know, they got he, this idea of having, we're going to, they're all going to be 2 partters, and it's not quite because sleep no more is definitely on its own, but it's sort of... 2 partters.

766
01:00:29.099 --> 01:00:31.920
Some are definite, 2 parters, some are a bit more linked.

767
01:00:31.980 --> 01:00:32.699
Yeah, yeah.

768
01:00:32.760 --> 01:00:45.420
Um, but I think perhaps the season would be structured better if you started with the girl who died because you need, it's, it's, um, introduces a shilder who is going to be there for a week.

769
01:00:45.780 --> 01:00:48.119
It odd that she only gets introduced halfway through the season.

770
01:00:48.179 --> 01:00:51.179
I think it makes more sense to introduce her in episode one.

771
01:00:51.239 --> 01:00:55.679
And then at the midpoint of the season, you do the woman who lived.

772
01:00:56.219 --> 01:00:58.260
Because then you really get the idea that...

773
01:00:58.320 --> 01:00:59.099
That it's been a long time.

774
01:00:59.159 --> 01:00:59.880
Yeah, yeah.

775
01:00:59.880 --> 01:01:02.099
And so the Dalek two-parter.

776
01:01:02.159 --> 01:01:11.699
The Davro's two-parter, I think, should be, you know, sort of in 3 and 4 or something or, you know, or if you, I suppose you couldn't be there because you need another, because they're all 2 parters.

777
01:01:11.760 --> 01:01:15.119
But yeah, you could you could maybe have the...

778
01:01:15.179 --> 01:01:18.059
And then 4 and 5 being the Davros story.

779
01:01:18.059 --> 01:01:19.380
And then the woman who lived.

780
01:01:19.440 --> 01:01:28.679
Because I think, I know this isn't particularly a point about the Davros story per se, but you then would have the idea that, oh, my God, I'd forgotten all about a shilder.

781
01:01:28.739 --> 01:01:35.880
Yeah, um, you know, and then, I mean, I think that would just be a better structure for the season.

782
01:01:35.880 --> 01:01:39.000
Yeah, having the 2 next to one another is a little bit like the arc, though, isn't it?

783
01:01:39.059 --> 01:01:39.780
It's a bit like.

784
01:01:40.260 --> 01:01:43.679
Well, I think I think they fell in love with the idea that they're all going to be prepared episodes.

785
01:01:44.519 --> 01:01:50.460
I mean, this works as an opener because it's reestablishing the doctor and Clara, you know, showing us where they are.

786
01:01:50.519 --> 01:01:52.199
It's a blockbuster opening.

787
01:01:52.260 --> 01:01:53.940
It was to try and...

788
01:01:53.940 --> 01:01:55.559
Yeah, because the dark...

789
01:01:55.559 --> 01:01:57.539
Yeah, and get big raped and stuff.

790
01:01:57.599 --> 01:02:00.179
Yeah, and it's got Davros in it, but we're not allowed to mention it.

791
01:02:00.300 --> 01:02:02.159
Well, this was the season.

792
01:02:02.159 --> 01:02:03.480
Art Malik in it?

793
01:02:03.780 --> 01:02:05.699
The kids love him.

794
01:02:06.659 --> 01:02:09.780
It's like an album track listing, isn't it?

795
01:02:09.840 --> 01:02:15.659
Like it can make such an, it can have such an impact on how you enjoy a collection of music or in this case episodes.

796
01:02:15.719 --> 01:02:18.300
If it had been rearranged a bit, it might actually have worked.

797
01:02:18.420 --> 01:02:23.039
The season that they had a trailer where they put the line, same old, same old...

798
01:02:23.039 --> 01:02:26.340
The doctor and Clara, which is from part 2 of the...

799
01:02:26.340 --> 01:02:29.579
And I think that's was inadvisable.

800
01:02:29.880 --> 01:02:35.699
I think it would have been sensible to have, you know, got Davros back.

801
01:02:35.760 --> 01:02:40.079
He's a character that even people who don't know Doctor Who that well will remember and recognise.

802
01:02:40.139 --> 01:02:40.619
Yeah.

803
01:02:40.619 --> 01:02:42.360
That's your hook.

804
01:02:42.420 --> 01:02:43.260
That your selling point.

805
01:02:43.320 --> 01:02:43.980
Is it didn't do it?

806
01:02:44.039 --> 01:02:52.800
Are we trying not to spoil the surprise of the opener because I don't think knowing that Davros is back is necessarily going to spoil that surprise.

807
01:02:52.860 --> 01:02:59.460
I mean, if you if you genuinely don't know who's back at all, then I suppose you get more of a surprise when the kid says Davros.

808
01:02:59.519 --> 01:03:01.380
Yeah, but I don't think you're expecting anything.

809
01:03:01.380 --> 01:03:02.579
It's only 2 minutes in.

810
01:03:02.639 --> 01:03:06.900
I think I think that's a, um, that was a trade-off that wasn't worth making.

811
01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:08.099
Yeah, yeah.

812
01:03:08.159 --> 01:03:12.000
I mean, I think they should have used that advertising ploy all the time.

813
01:03:12.059 --> 01:03:13.380
Can you imagine for the war machines?

814
01:03:13.440 --> 01:03:15.179
The doctor and Dodo in the TARDS.

815
01:03:15.239 --> 01:03:17.159
Same old, same old.

816
01:03:19.380 --> 01:03:32.880
I think this, my impression of this episode, this 2 pastor, in fact, has always been that it was less than the sum of its parts, but actually watching again, it is that, but the parts are pretty great.

817
01:03:32.940 --> 01:03:33.360
Yeah.

818
01:03:33.420 --> 01:03:37.380
This is actually one of my favourite of Moffat's season Opers.

819
01:03:37.440 --> 01:03:37.739
Okay.

820
01:03:37.800 --> 01:03:40.019
And despite its structural flaws.

821
01:03:40.079 --> 01:03:41.639
It's just a joy to watch.

822
01:03:41.820 --> 01:03:58.199
It is a thing that I'm always asking for and then it comes along and it's kind of like, you know, like I always want there to be Boomtown or in the forest of the night where nothing very much happens and we're just hanging out with the characters for, you know, 45 minutes or whatever.

823
01:03:58.260 --> 01:03:59.639
And I mean, this is sort of that.

824
01:03:59.699 --> 01:04:00.840
It's checking in with it.

825
01:04:00.900 --> 01:04:03.719
Part 2 is just 4 speaking parts from the Daleks.

826
01:04:03.840 --> 01:04:04.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

827
01:04:04.440 --> 01:04:06.840
And even part one, it's pretty superficial.

828
01:04:06.900 --> 01:04:07.199
Yes.

829
01:04:07.260 --> 01:04:10.679
I mean, you've kind of forgotten Kate Lebridge Stewart's in it.

830
01:04:10.739 --> 01:04:12.960
Usually when she's even on screen.

831
01:04:13.019 --> 01:04:13.800
That's right.

832
01:04:13.860 --> 01:04:15.599
I struggle to remember when she was in the show.

833
01:04:16.739 --> 01:04:18.119
Wow.

834
01:04:20.099 --> 01:04:22.920
We kick her a lot, don't we?

835
01:04:23.579 --> 01:04:25.800
She's retired from acting.

836
01:04:25.860 --> 01:04:27.300
It's just pin money, love.

837
01:04:28.199 --> 01:04:31.139
And there's one of the other characters.

838
01:04:31.199 --> 01:04:32.039
Is it played by Jay?

839
01:04:32.099 --> 01:04:33.059
is it Jay Griffiths?

840
01:04:33.119 --> 01:04:33.480
Yes.

841
01:04:33.480 --> 01:04:37.440
And she's backing on the side. and gets killed, I think.

842
01:04:37.500 --> 01:04:42.719
It's great too, because that's the version of unit where it's all women and they don't remark on it.

843
01:04:42.780 --> 01:04:49.380
It's, you know, Rebecca Front and her and, um, and, you know, um, Miss Redgrave.

844
01:04:49.380 --> 01:04:54.059
And it's just the non-speaking. soldiers that get killed by missing.

845
01:04:54.119 --> 01:04:54.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

846
01:04:54.900 --> 01:04:55.980
And that's pretty awesome.

847
01:04:56.039 --> 01:04:56.940
That's kind of great.

848
01:04:57.000 --> 01:04:58.619
It's like, you know, Strangely Worlds.

849
01:04:58.679 --> 01:05:09.480
Like I was halfway through series 2 of Strange 2 Worlds when I realised that there are 3 men in the opening titles and 5 women and it's kind of like, oh, yeah, that really is a lot better.

850
01:05:09.539 --> 01:05:10.199
Let's have that.

851
01:05:11.219 --> 01:05:19.860
No, I mean, not the opening titles in the same way, but that's true of the original series, though.

852
01:05:19.920 --> 01:05:21.539
There are lots of women in it.

853
01:05:21.599 --> 01:05:23.760
They just don't play a significant part.

854
01:05:23.820 --> 01:05:28.380
Yeah, yeah, but unit was all men, you know, except for Katie, really.

855
01:05:28.440 --> 01:05:29.579
Corporal Bell.

856
01:05:29.639 --> 01:05:39.780
Oh, and Corporal Bell, who Kate gives a brain injury in a car accident too, is... before the cause of accent.

857
01:05:39.900 --> 01:05:42.119
Not before, after the clause of acts.

858
01:05:42.179 --> 01:05:44.940
Kate Orman, not Kate Methry.

859
01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:45.780
So mean.

860
01:05:45.840 --> 01:05:48.599
I was going to think...

861
01:05:48.599 --> 01:05:52.079
Have I missed a triple episode somewhere on the way?

862
01:05:52.320 --> 01:05:56.340
All right, let's, well, I'll press stop.