WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 14:07:57

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast that did mean to imply that we don't

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care.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Peter.

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I'm Simon.

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Well, it's our 1st underwater base for more than 30 years, both

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diagetically and extra digetically, and this time we're up against

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I don't know, ghosts or something.

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So let's see what sort of predestination paradoxes we can get

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ourselves into in under the lake.

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So, this episode gets me thinking of the history of bases under

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siege in the new series, and given that I don't expect to have

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very much to say about this 2 parter, I thought that we might just

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compare it to some things.

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So what do we have?

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I want to say Impossible Planner, Waters of Mars, 42, what else?

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The gangers two-parter?

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Ganga's 2-parter, and maybe last Christmas.

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Where do we where do we want to rank this?

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I mean, I don't think this is as dramatically awful as the gang is

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two-part, I don't think it does.

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I don't think.

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Simon, are you saying that's baseless criticism?

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I don't think it's very good because using as a comparison

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Impossible Planet and the Satan pit, which made something really

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beautiful and interesting and elegiic out of what it included and

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made its characters really interesting and all stand out.

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You knew who they were, and they were finally drawn 10 minutes

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after they'd been introduced.

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With this, it's just moving those pieces around and creating

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something that's really quite bland, I think, nothing stands out.

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I think bland is probably a little bit harsh.

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I think it's fine.

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I enjoyed it actually more than I was expecting to.

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Not that I disliked it the 1st time round, but I did find it a

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little bit tiresome the 1st time round, but this time I thought, oh

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that was diverting, entertaining, and I was drawn into it.

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I certainly wasn't bored by it.

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I really like this one.

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I loved it at the time. and watching it again this week.

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I found that like some of Stephen Moffatt's more time travel-based

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and paradox-based plots, it doesn't so much reward repeat viewing

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as you just go, oh, I hadn't noticed that before.

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So I do think it has somewhat diminishing returns, but that

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initial viewing and the fact that we're doing a time paradox, which

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is something Doctor Who doesn't do to this level so very often, I

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found highly entertaining.

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And I'm actually going to disagree with Peter that I think the

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characterisations of these characters.

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I will agree they're not as well drawn as the Satan Pitt uh two

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parter, which is one of the best stories of Tenet's entire era, in

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my opinion.

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I do think the way the characters are drawn serves a particular

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purpose.

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I think you're right, Brendan, but I think that I don't like it

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when I can see that each character has a particular purpose.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Like, I want to, I want to have the, and I know that in writing

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obviously, characters are created with a purpose to drive plot and

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so on like that.

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But I want to have the illusion that it's somehow random that

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these people have just come together and this story unfolds.

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And I find it a little bit too mannered in that way or maybe not

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mannered is the right word, prepared. functioning.

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Yes, exactly.

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I have to say that there is a big gap between the 2 Russell T

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Davies bases under siege because I think the waters of Mars has

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very strongly drawn characters as well.

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I think perhaps he doesn't quite reach the heights he does in

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Satan Pitt.

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But one of the features of the Moffat era is that the one off

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characters in the episodes are actually never all that memorable

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and he prefers to give most of the interesting drama to the

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regular characters, which is different from how Doctor Who is in

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the classic era, for instance.

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And so here I actually did find myself surprised on this watch

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through that the characters are quite well drawn.

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I had no difficulty working out what their names were, or even how

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many of them there were, which was a problem in the gang is too

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far.

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Even without the 2 sets of carrots. right. right.

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So I did like these characters and particularly Lun, who I just

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think is beautiful and adorable.

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Isn't he cute?

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Yeah, wonderful.

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And I also liked O'Donnell.

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I think she's really sort of likeable and she seems to be kind of

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drawn as, you know, a bit tough, hard as nails and stuff in part

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two.

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But in this part, she's sort of mostly fangirling and being funny

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and calling Pritchard an idiot.

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I think she's really great.

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And I also think we get extra points for having Pritchard's 1st

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name on his IDB Richard.

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So he's Richard Pritchard.

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For those of you who've seen broken news.

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But I did think that was great.

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And there was a little moment where I wasn't sure whether Clara

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was calling out Richard or Pritchard over the communications

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thing.

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So that's all sort of terribly cute.

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So I did think that they were actually quite well drawn.

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What I think is that it's really thin, in terms of having a solid

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idea.

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And like, I think the gang is two-parter has the potential for a

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really, really seriously solid idea about identity and stuff.

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And we talked about it at the time.

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It doesn't quite do it.

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It doesn't quite kind of get there, but it's got a really solid

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idea.

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And I think the base is a little bit more interesting.

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You know, like it's a castle for no reason, which we said was

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weird.

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There's acid everywhere.

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Again.

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Like it was just an ugly and off-putting setting in a sort of very

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deliberate way.

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And while we found it ugly and offputting, It's a bit less

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generic.

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It's a bit less generic than this sort of undersea base, which I

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think is a great sad.

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And like I was thinking of the impossible planet and this, that

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has a real solidity to it, that the impossible planet set couldn't

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afford to have, I guess, at the time.

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That is actually part of the reason why I think the characters

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blend together for me.

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I do think they're actually they're drawn okay.

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And I think the performers do a good job of bringing them to life

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and differentiating them.

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But the visual style is all a little bit samey for me.

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So the characters are dressed very similarly, which doesn't help.

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And all of the sets, even though they're quite moody and

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atmospheric, are only moody and atmospheric.

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There's no real light and dark in there.

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And so it's almost like by the end of 44 minutes. or however long

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it was.

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You're just a bit tired of seeing these same images over and

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over.

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Yeah, they should have set it on sea base four.

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I would have loved it.

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This story would definitely have been improved by a murka

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breaking.

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Yeah.

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But actually, that's an interesting point, Peter, because all it

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needs is one of the areas whether it's the living quarters or

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something to be dramatically different, which you can kind of get

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away with in the sea base, like, okay, this is all the grungy work

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bits that are just, you know, dark and grungy and so on.

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But then the little haven that we retreat to when we're having our

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relaxation is all light and bright with ferns and things, you

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know.

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They could have made the Faraday cage, I think, something really

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quite different and interesting looking. spend quite a lot of time

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there, just hanging out.

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I like the effort they went to, to make it obvious that it's hot

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down there. because they're all they're all in shorts and some

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they're in sort of tank tops and so on like that.

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And there's a lot of sweat.

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And I think that actually comes across, comes across quite well.

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Sophie Stone, who plays Cass and is hearing impaired, is on the

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commentary.

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And when Toby Withouse is praising how the production team have

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realised his research into undersea bases, and that's why there's

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moss everywhere because that actually happens.

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Right.

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What, Tedmos?

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And the humidity, as you're talking about side.

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But when he's talking about that.

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Sophie Stone just says, I never want to see any petroleum jelly

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ever again because the out decision...

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Oh, of course. petroleum jelly.

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Yes.

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They don't just spritz them before the tax.

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They have to, yeah.

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They're slathered in it.

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And that hanger set is one entire sound stage at Rothlock.

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And, you know, Toby Withouse is like, it's one thing to write

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these things and I thought we'd have, you know, a hanger set and

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then we'd have a control room set, but then Daniel O'Hara, the

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director comes along and just goes, okay, that's one integrated

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set and I can shoot through the window here and et cetera, et

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cetera.

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Yeah, I think maybe if the mess hall had been a bit warmer. as you

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would expect, you know, this is the recreation area.

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Although I do appreciate that in the mess hall, we have a mural of

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Kirk, Bones and Scotty in a little boat being attacked by the

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dragon creature.

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I didn't notice that.

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Yeah, if you look, there's 3 men standing in the boat and they've

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got like gold shirt, a red shirt, and a blue shirt.

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Another criticism that I've seen labelled against this is that

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Colin McFarlane, who is obviously an incredible actor with an

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amazing career, gets killed off super early on.

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But I do have to say that I was imagining him enjoying the hell

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out of playing a scary ghost for the entire 2 parter, so we did

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miss his performance and he's fantastic.

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He makes an impression absolutely immediately.

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And the hilarious thing about him is that he's slathered in

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petroleum jelly, he's sweaty.

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He's chewing gum.

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He reads his very working class, but he just talks like a duke.

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You know, like he's absolutely unbelievable, that accent.

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And we do lose that voice, which is a shame.

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He has been in Doctor Who before.

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Really?

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Which one?

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He plays the host.

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He does the voice of the host in Voyage of the Damn.

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The incredible posh voice of the host in the voyage of the dad.

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And of course, he's in Children of Earth as well.

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He's the black general who doesn't look like Colin Baker in that

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thought you were going to say he was in trial of a time lord or

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something.

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That's an amazing thing.

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And it's something we've seen this era do before with say Olivia

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Coleman, who we always come back to because she's Olivia Coleman

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you know, casting a huge actor in a small but memorable role.

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And according to Sophie Stowdon, the commentary, he absolutely

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loved doing that stunt jumping in front of the flame jet, which

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was a real flame jet, by the way.

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It is enhanced in post, but they had a real flame jet on.

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And even though it is a small vocal role for him.

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He loved that his character got to die heroically and doing a bond

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stunt, basically.

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Yeah, and then he gets to be a Doctor Who monster, which is kind

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of fun as well.

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And he's really relishing it.

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There's a great moment, I think.

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Like it's not the only reason that Cass is deaf, but one of the

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things that she does is, of course, Lip Reed, the 2 ghosts.

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And it's very well directed.

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I think this is someone who doesn't direct before or again.

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Daniel O'Hara.

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And what he does is we can't tell what the people are saying until

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after Cass interprets it, and then we see close-ups, particularly

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close-ups of Moran's mouth.

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And he looks super fierce and terrifying at that point, I think.

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Can I say I actually don't think it's all that well directed?

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Okay.

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It's all right.

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Like, there's nothing terrible about it, but I think it's a little

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bit flat in places, which contributes to the feeling of just sort

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of moving from space to space and there's some visual grammar

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missing in places.

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So there's a bit where the doctor and Clara are being menaced

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early on by the ghosts and then they run away, but you missed the

249
00:13:13.740 --> 00:13:14.639
shot of them running away.

250
00:13:14.700 --> 00:13:17.519
So they just kind of like serve land when she's being attacked.

251
00:13:17.580 --> 00:13:21.779
They just leave frame. somewhere else.

252
00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:26.879
But having said that, there are moments of visual beauty.

253
00:13:26.940 --> 00:13:29.159
I think that scene towards the end of the episode where the doctor

254
00:13:29.159 --> 00:13:33.179
and Clara are communicating the bulkhead and the water's coming

255
00:13:33.179 --> 00:13:34.200
up.

256
00:13:34.259 --> 00:13:34.860
That's really nice.

257
00:13:34.919 --> 00:13:37.980
And even the point at which the water covers her face.

258
00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:40.980
Like there's a moment where we're uncertain of our relationship

259
00:13:40.980 --> 00:13:45.240
together and the surface of the water is occluding their eyes and

260
00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:49.500
then finally, when she does agree that she trusts him, their faces

261
00:13:49.500 --> 00:13:50.639
are both visible to one another.

262
00:13:50.700 --> 00:13:53.220
Like, I think it is very, very well done.

263
00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:58.379
Toby Whitehouse has been a bit lucky, I have to say. because he

264
00:13:58.379 --> 00:14:01.259
had Nick Curran for the God complex.

265
00:14:01.320 --> 00:14:05.700
He has that incredible guest performance in a town called Mercy.

266
00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:10.440
And here where nothing super spectacular is happening in the

267
00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:11.279
production.

268
00:14:11.340 --> 00:14:15.299
I think that there's nothing to distract us from the fact that the

269
00:14:15.299 --> 00:14:18.000
script is a little bit empty.

270
00:14:18.059 --> 00:14:22.320
And so as I started to say, I think before, there's no real

271
00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:24.480
interesting idea here.

272
00:14:24.539 --> 00:14:29.700
So, so I think that the impossible planet has what if a base under

273
00:14:29.700 --> 00:14:32.639
siege, but the devil, you know, like I think that that's kind of

274
00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:35.519
interesting, I think the waters of Mars has the question of

275
00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:38.399
whether the doctor needs to save these people and create

276
00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:41.220
unnecessary work for the Wikipedia editors.

277
00:14:42.360 --> 00:14:49.139
I think, you know, 42 has something, something, a countdown maps.

278
00:14:49.200 --> 00:14:51.360
But, you know, like that's an idea.

279
00:14:51.419 --> 00:14:54.840
But again, that's perhaps the weakest, the other, you know, weakest

280
00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:56.039
of the bases under siege.

281
00:14:56.100 --> 00:14:58.679
Can I posit something?

282
00:14:58.740 --> 00:14:59.100
Yeah.

283
00:14:59.100 --> 00:15:03.419
I think part of the problem is that like what they sometimes do

284
00:15:03.419 --> 00:15:05.940
the era they sometimes make with these 2 partters in the modern

285
00:15:05.940 --> 00:15:08.700
era is that they start the 1st episode as if it's only one

286
00:15:08.700 --> 00:15:09.059
episode.

287
00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:12.419
And so too much has happened already.

288
00:15:12.539 --> 00:15:15.659
I think, and this is one of the reasons why I enjoy the gangers 2

289
00:15:15.659 --> 00:15:17.460
parter, um, unlike others.

290
00:15:17.820 --> 00:15:20.220
But also I think one of the reasons why the Impossible Planet is

291
00:15:20.220 --> 00:15:26.759
so good is because the menace and the threat takes time to build.

292
00:15:26.820 --> 00:15:27.840
Yeah, right?

293
00:15:27.899 --> 00:15:30.419
It doesn't it doesn't all happen in the pre-credit sequence.

294
00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:32.759
Now, you need to do it all in the pre-credit sequence when you've

295
00:15:32.759 --> 00:15:34.559
only got 45 minutes to tell the entire story.

296
00:15:34.620 --> 00:15:37.139
But when you've got 90 minutes, even though, yes, the 2nd episode

297
00:15:37.139 --> 00:15:41.159
we go back in time and there's a kind of a change, you get this

298
00:15:41.159 --> 00:15:45.120
kind of saminess in the middle of this episode because you've

299
00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:48.059
gotten into it quicker than you needed to, it would have been much

300
00:15:48.059 --> 00:15:50.340
more interesting if the doctor and Clara had have arrived.

301
00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:51.059
Who are you?

302
00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:53.159
Stranger, how the hell did you get here, et cetera, et cetera, et

303
00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:53.460
cetera.

304
00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:56.460
They found this ship from the bottom of the lake.

305
00:15:56.519 --> 00:15:57.720
We don't know what it is.

306
00:15:57.779 --> 00:15:58.559
We don't know what's going on.

307
00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:01.860
And then Moran is killed and he comes back as a ghost and so on

308
00:16:01.860 --> 00:16:02.519
and so on.

309
00:16:02.580 --> 00:16:04.559
And so rather than that happening in the pre-credit sequence

310
00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:07.919
that's happened to like after 10 minutes, say, or 15 minutes.

311
00:16:07.980 --> 00:16:10.500
And that's one of the reasons why I like the gang is two-parter as

312
00:16:10.500 --> 00:16:12.960
well is because it builds in that classic series kind of shape.

313
00:16:13.019 --> 00:16:15.779
They arrive and whilst there's a bit of stuff going on, the true

314
00:16:15.779 --> 00:16:17.580
menace hasn't actually arrived yet.

315
00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:21.960
It's interesting that there's only one character death after

316
00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:25.259
Morans in this episode, and that's Pritchard.

317
00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:28.559
And so you've got sort of 40 minutes of just going from place to

318
00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:33.059
place and that sequence where they're trying to...

319
00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:36.120
Yeah, they're trying to lure the ghosts into the Faraday cage is

320
00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:38.700
really long and not that invented.

321
00:16:38.820 --> 00:16:42.000
And also something that we've seen before so many times.

322
00:16:42.059 --> 00:16:43.200
And that's the thing.

323
00:16:43.259 --> 00:16:45.000
I think you're absolutely right, Simon with that.

324
00:16:45.059 --> 00:16:49.679
And part of my issue, such as it is with this episode is that it

325
00:16:49.679 --> 00:16:51.960
feels like it's taking those things that we've seen before and

326
00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:54.600
just moving the puzzle pieces around to create a new episode out

327
00:16:54.600 --> 00:16:54.899
of them.

328
00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:57.840
There's nothing that really stands out for me.

329
00:16:57.899 --> 00:17:00.720
But can I say something that I really like about it?

330
00:17:00.779 --> 00:17:02.399
Well, things that I really like about it.

331
00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:05.339
Because I do think it is, good television is good, Doctor Who

332
00:17:05.339 --> 00:17:05.819
broadly speaking.

333
00:17:05.819 --> 00:17:10.980
The criticisms I'm making are a bit more nitpicky a bit just a

334
00:17:10.980 --> 00:17:11.160
bit.

335
00:17:11.220 --> 00:17:12.960
Oh, look, look, it could have been better if they'd have done this

336
00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:13.500
this and this, right?

337
00:17:13.559 --> 00:17:15.599
Okay, that's what all I was kind of saying before.

338
00:17:15.660 --> 00:17:21.839
It is so great to have a really, really creepy image and the image

339
00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:25.619
of the ghosts with the black hollowed out eyes is actually quite

340
00:17:25.619 --> 00:17:26.220
shocking.

341
00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:31.920
And I hope that lots of kids from that era remember that and had

342
00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:34.200
nightmares about it because really that's what Doctor Who's

343
00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:34.859
supposed to give out.

344
00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:39.900
The other thing is it's really refreshing that I love is when the

345
00:17:39.900 --> 00:17:43.259
doctor and Clara have arrived and the doctor says, what do you say

346
00:17:43.259 --> 00:17:44.220
I haven't a clue.

347
00:17:44.279 --> 00:17:45.180
Isn't that exciting?

348
00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:48.119
And I think, yes, yes, it is.

349
00:17:48.180 --> 00:17:52.019
Yes, it is exciting when the doctor arrives somewhere and doesn't

350
00:17:52.019 --> 00:17:54.720
know where they are, doesn't know what's going on and doesn't know

351
00:17:54.720 --> 00:17:55.920
anything and has to discover it.

352
00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:58.859
And he doesn't go at the kind of the 30 minute mark going, oh, my

353
00:17:58.859 --> 00:18:00.779
goodness, I've just realised this is the thing of me, Bob's from

354
00:18:00.779 --> 00:18:01.440
Watch McCoy.

355
00:18:01.500 --> 00:18:03.480
And therefore, blah, blah, blah. you know what I mean?

356
00:18:03.539 --> 00:18:06.599
I'm so sick of that, which I know doesn't happen all the time, but

357
00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:08.220
I think just happens more often than it should.

358
00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:10.920
So I mean, it takes you back to the Hinchcliffe era where the

359
00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:12.779
doctor and Sarah would just turn up and have a new adventure every

360
00:18:12.779 --> 00:18:13.019
week.

361
00:18:13.079 --> 00:18:13.740
Yes.

362
00:18:13.799 --> 00:18:14.940
Exactly.

363
00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:17.400
I think it's marvellous seeing Capaldi do this.

364
00:18:17.460 --> 00:18:21.359
I mean, he got a little bit of a go at it in last Christmas and

365
00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:25.619
he's really, really fun here, I think, like really properly

366
00:18:25.619 --> 00:18:28.920
enjoyable, including kind of identifying the intransigent base

367
00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:32.819
commander straight away and just say, well, you know, like, I'm

368
00:18:32.819 --> 00:18:35.519
not talking to you or you're clearly an idiot or something like

369
00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:35.700
that.

370
00:18:35.819 --> 00:18:38.160
And all of that is really terrifically fun.

371
00:18:38.220 --> 00:18:40.019
Well, he's not the base commander.

372
00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:41.519
He's just the guy from the company.

373
00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:44.759
But he is the one who's intransigent in the sense that we could

374
00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:46.980
have all just left. you know.

375
00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:49.500
But just echoing something you said in the last Christmas

376
00:18:49.500 --> 00:18:49.980
episode.

377
00:18:50.039 --> 00:18:53.220
But you pointed it out as, well, of course, it's a dream because

378
00:18:53.220 --> 00:18:56.940
you've got this perfectly diverse base under siege. set of

379
00:18:56.940 --> 00:18:57.420
characters.

380
00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:00.240
But you've got that in every base of the section where the bottom

381
00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:00.839
of the era.

382
00:19:00.900 --> 00:19:04.500
You've always got this perfectly ethnically engender diverse group

383
00:19:04.500 --> 00:19:05.819
and age diverse group of people.

384
00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:09.599
And the most important thing is that the base commander is not a

385
00:19:09.599 --> 00:19:10.140
white male.

386
00:19:11.099 --> 00:19:13.259
Not even in this era.

387
00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:15.599
We can go back to the 10th planet or the wheeling space in the

388
00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:16.140
moon base.

389
00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:16.740
Yeah.

390
00:19:17.099 --> 00:19:23.759
Something I really love about the character dynamics in this, and

391
00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:28.259
this is what I was alluding to earlier, is the 2 character

392
00:19:28.259 --> 00:19:35.160
pairings we end up with Cass and Lunn and O'Donnell and Bennett

393
00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:38.339
both mirror aspects of the Dr. Clara relationship.

394
00:19:38.579 --> 00:19:45.000
So Cass is responsible after the death of Moran for the base and

395
00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:50.279
is aggressive in that this is my duty of care and this is what I'm

396
00:19:50.279 --> 00:19:50.519
doing.

397
00:19:50.819 --> 00:19:56.640
Meanwhile, you have Lund translating for her in the same way that

398
00:19:56.640 --> 00:19:58.259
Clara does for the doctor.

399
00:19:58.319 --> 00:19:59.279
Yes.

400
00:19:59.339 --> 00:20:02.640
That is a bit that I think goes a little bit far as the little

401
00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:04.980
flash cards, the little prompt cards, I think.

402
00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:05.519
Right.

403
00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:09.660
Actually, it's I quite used to think that joke worked, but it

404
00:20:09.660 --> 00:20:10.440
absolutely doesn't.

405
00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:12.420
It seemed grinds to a halt.

406
00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:14.640
It's a bit that they had to get in.

407
00:20:14.700 --> 00:20:15.660
It's not a very funny bit.

408
00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:20.220
I think it would have been better if, like, the doctor had turned

409
00:20:20.220 --> 00:20:23.279
around, got something out of his pocket, said the line, and then

410
00:20:23.279 --> 00:20:26.339
we saw that they were flash cards for when he's in an emotional

411
00:20:26.339 --> 00:20:26.819
situation.

412
00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:30.480
You know, if he'd driven it, if he'd gone, oh, okay, no, I know

413
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:30.660
this.

414
00:20:31.079 --> 00:20:35.279
But, I mean, both of them kind of shake off the joke and then go

415
00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:36.059
back to their acting.

416
00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:39.480
Yeah, like you can actually see a moment where Capolda goes, yeah

417
00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:40.380
I'm done with this bit.

418
00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:41.640
No, I'm just going to do my acting.

419
00:20:41.700 --> 00:20:46.319
You know, yeah, it feels like if it was a stage production, it'd

420
00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:48.779
be one of those moments where all the actions stopped and the

421
00:20:48.779 --> 00:20:52.079
actor is now kind of effectively addressing the audience directly

422
00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:55.019
for the laugh and getting a laugh and then kind of returning to

423
00:20:55.019 --> 00:20:56.039
the rest of the scene.

424
00:20:56.099 --> 00:21:00.480
If you're going to do it, you actually, Brendan, your idea is good

425
00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:02.460
but I think the better thing to do is that's just a funny scene

426
00:21:02.460 --> 00:21:04.680
and a TARDIS before they've actually left the console room at the

427
00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:04.859
beginning.

428
00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:05.940
Yeah, yeah.

429
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:09.000
Even if you flash back to it and say, now, if we encounter someone

430
00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:10.559
whose friend has died, what?

431
00:21:10.619 --> 00:21:11.460
Do we say...

432
00:21:13.019 --> 00:21:16.380
But, I mean, one of them is the, you know, I promise that no other

433
00:21:16.380 --> 00:21:20.700
people are going to be hypnotised or mortally wounded or killed or

434
00:21:20.700 --> 00:21:23.339
eaten or whatever, you know, with all the slashes and stuff.

435
00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:24.839
But the doctor says that all time.

436
00:21:24.839 --> 00:21:25.380
Yes, exactly.

437
00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:27.119
You know that.

438
00:21:27.180 --> 00:21:33.000
And in fact, you know, we made a point of that last season in

439
00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:37.440
flatline, that that was essentially a doctor-ish thing to do, and

440
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:40.799
we watched Clara do it with that sort of ragtag group of people

441
00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:42.000
that she was leading.

442
00:21:42.059 --> 00:21:45.480
And like, I don't, like, you know, I'm not going to complain about

443
00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:45.839
this.

444
00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:48.960
I'm not going to complain about how no one knows about aliens or

445
00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:51.599
spaceships or anything like this, even though it's 2119.

446
00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:52.740
Like, who cares?

447
00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:53.339
like whatever.

448
00:21:53.460 --> 00:21:57.960
There is a kind of level of character consistency that should span

449
00:21:57.960 --> 00:21:59.940
kind of longer than 8 episodes, I think.

450
00:22:00.299 --> 00:22:04.619
The other pairing, of course, is O'Donnell and Bennett.

451
00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:10.859
And for me, the doctor companion thing, there is O'Donnell is

452
00:22:10.859 --> 00:22:15.119
mirroring the behaviour the doctor is concerned about in Clara.

453
00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:19.799
And we do have that lovely scene in the TARDIS where he's saying

454
00:22:19.799 --> 00:22:22.799
you know, I'm worried about you because of this emotional reaction

455
00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:24.119
and Clara's like, I'm fine.

456
00:22:24.180 --> 00:22:26.880
And of course, it brilliantly ends with going, okay, can I can I

457
00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:28.319
stop doing this now then?

458
00:22:28.440 --> 00:22:30.359
And she's like, yeah, please do.

459
00:22:30.420 --> 00:22:31.500
And she's super relieved.

460
00:22:31.559 --> 00:22:32.039
Yes, please.

461
00:22:32.099 --> 00:22:34.619
But it is incredibly sweet.

462
00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:37.140
And it is an overarching theme here.

463
00:22:37.140 --> 00:22:42.720
And O'Donnell faces the same thing here and you'll discuss that

464
00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:43.920
more in the next episode, I'm sure.

465
00:22:49.980 --> 00:22:54.900
I want to know, is this a Moffat thing or is it an arc thing or

466
00:22:54.900 --> 00:22:57.839
something because that seems to be new?

467
00:22:57.900 --> 00:23:01.619
That seems to be setting this agenda where the doctor is worried

468
00:23:01.619 --> 00:23:03.960
that Clara is turning into him.

469
00:23:04.019 --> 00:23:08.220
And again, it's kind of hinted at Flatline because Clara gets to

470
00:23:08.220 --> 00:23:11.819
be the doctor and the doctor doesn't like it on some level.

471
00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:14.039
She enjoys it about 100% too much.

472
00:23:14.099 --> 00:23:14.700
Yeah, yeah.

473
00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:18.059
And then here, she's sort of super enthusiastic about being on

474
00:23:18.059 --> 00:23:21.480
adventures and stuff and suddenly the doctors a bit thing about

475
00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:21.839
that.

476
00:23:21.900 --> 00:23:25.920
And I know where we're going in this season with that.

477
00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:30.359
And so that seems to be the beginning point of a trajectory that

478
00:23:30.359 --> 00:23:31.740
leads us to face the raven.

479
00:23:31.799 --> 00:23:33.960
It's one of those things.

480
00:23:34.019 --> 00:23:37.799
It's why Clara is not in the pantheon of greats because every

481
00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:40.619
season they try to do something different with her and they are

482
00:23:40.619 --> 00:23:43.559
trying to do something different with her rather than just letting

483
00:23:43.559 --> 00:23:45.000
the relationship happen.

484
00:23:45.059 --> 00:23:48.779
And so this season they've decided she's gotten past all the Danny

485
00:23:48.779 --> 00:23:49.500
Pink stuff.

486
00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:50.819
She's going to be an adventurer.

487
00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:52.799
She wants to be the doctor, she's embracing it too much.

488
00:23:52.859 --> 00:23:53.819
Where will that lead?

489
00:23:53.880 --> 00:23:54.599
Could she die?

490
00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:55.259
I don't know.

491
00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:55.799
Let's see.

492
00:23:55.859 --> 00:23:58.500
But it's all a little bit forced.

493
00:23:58.559 --> 00:24:01.440
It's all layered on top of what should be just a generic doctor

494
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:02.339
companion relationship.

495
00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:04.140
Well, you've got 3 companions basically.

496
00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:05.759
She should actually just be 3 companions.

497
00:24:05.819 --> 00:24:07.079
Yes, yes.

498
00:24:07.140 --> 00:24:07.380
Yeah.

499
00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:13.559
It does lead to that great little speech she has to Bennett at the

500
00:24:13.559 --> 00:24:15.420
end of next episode.

501
00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:17.819
And that's when I started getting really concerned about the

502
00:24:17.819 --> 00:24:22.200
character of Clara in this series because I love this series.

503
00:24:22.259 --> 00:24:24.180
I think it has so many good episodes.

504
00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:26.940
There's only one that I don't rate too highly.

505
00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:31.740
But I also look at Clara's character trajectory and it's one of

506
00:24:31.740 --> 00:24:34.680
those, one of those times where you see a character you like going

507
00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:38.460
in a direction you don't like and you're like, no, come back.

508
00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:42.059
You know, by the time of Face the Raven, it's this Thanatos.

509
00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:45.720
It's this death drive, this thrill seeking death drive, and I

510
00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:50.400
don't, I don't like it, but it's not bad.

511
00:24:50.460 --> 00:24:51.599
It's not badly done.

512
00:24:51.660 --> 00:24:53.339
It's well acted.

513
00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:54.539
It's well written.

514
00:24:54.599 --> 00:24:56.220
I, I, I love it.

515
00:24:56.279 --> 00:24:56.700
I hate it.

516
00:24:56.759 --> 00:24:57.839
I want to kiss it to death.

517
00:24:59.940 --> 00:25:04.200
It's kind of starting last season, isn't it?

518
00:25:04.259 --> 00:25:09.180
Where the relationship between the doctor and Clara is kind of

519
00:25:09.180 --> 00:25:12.599
problematized and compared to addiction and stuff like that and

520
00:25:12.599 --> 00:25:15.539
you only know its addiction if you, you know, try and give it up.

521
00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:20.940
And now, for some reason, we have this sort of thing where we have

522
00:25:20.940 --> 00:25:24.720
to punish her for being like the doctor.

523
00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:28.619
And I don't know why she deserves punishment for that.

524
00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:31.380
Is it because she's only a young woman or something?

525
00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:35.160
You know, like it, like, that seems to be kind of the, I don't

526
00:25:35.160 --> 00:25:35.339
know.

527
00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:37.920
I mean, that can't be deliberately what they're saying, but I'm

528
00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:40.740
just trying to work out why it's a problem.

529
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:44.339
Why is it bad to enjoy Doctor Who?

530
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:46.559
You know, why is it so bad?

531
00:25:46.680 --> 00:25:49.619
And O'Donnell gets killed, doesn't she?

532
00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:52.799
And she's a massive Doctor Who fan in this story as well.

533
00:25:52.859 --> 00:25:57.960
And you said, Brendan, that some of the problems that the doctor

534
00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:01.500
saw in Clara are being exhibited by O'Donnell, and O'Donnell gets

535
00:26:01.500 --> 00:26:04.019
killed as a result, is it kind of foreshadowing?

536
00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:05.160
Yeah.

537
00:26:05.220 --> 00:26:09.420
And something that does wind me up a bit, and I'm not on the next

538
00:26:09.420 --> 00:26:09.960
episode.

539
00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:13.200
So I'll just mention this briefly now, until about the 5th draft

540
00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:14.099
O'Donnell survived.

541
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:15.240
Right, okay.

542
00:26:15.299 --> 00:26:19.740
And it was actually a faked death that was part of the bootstrap

543
00:26:19.740 --> 00:26:24.299
paradox in order to make the doctor realise that Clara is next.

544
00:26:24.420 --> 00:26:25.799
Right, okay.

545
00:26:25.859 --> 00:26:29.160
But because it was part of the bootstrap paradox.

546
00:26:29.220 --> 00:26:31.079
The doctor gave her a bulletproof vest.

547
00:26:31.140 --> 00:26:34.859
I can see why they cut it because it's a bit too, you know, it's a

548
00:26:34.859 --> 00:26:35.279
bit too.

549
00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:37.920
Of course the doctor's been shot by a Dalek, but there's a

550
00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:39.180
regenerating box in the corner.

551
00:26:40.380 --> 00:26:45.480
And I know it winds up friend and contributor to the podcast, Kevin

552
00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:46.920
Bernard, the wrong way.

553
00:26:46.980 --> 00:26:51.000
Like he's spoken a lot about the treatment of O'Donnell in this

554
00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:51.720
two-parter.

555
00:26:51.779 --> 00:26:55.319
Yeah, she's kind of fridged, isn't she, I guess, essentially

556
00:26:55.319 --> 00:26:57.779
because then it's all about Bennett's reaction and stuff.

557
00:26:57.839 --> 00:27:00.779
We'll talk about that next week because, I mean, the time paradox

558
00:27:00.779 --> 00:27:04.559
doesn't really hit until next week, we have the doctor going back

559
00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:08.519
to before the flood towards the end of this episode and then we

560
00:27:08.519 --> 00:27:12.839
have what look like the consequences of that for the cliffhanger

561
00:27:12.839 --> 00:27:15.480
which is a pretty great cliffhanger.

562
00:27:15.539 --> 00:27:16.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

563
00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:19.019
It's a proper old style cliffhanger.

564
00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:20.460
Yeah, yeah.

565
00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:21.599
It is pretty good.

566
00:27:21.660 --> 00:27:25.319
And it's not like most 2 parties, it doesn't spend 10 minutes of

567
00:27:25.319 --> 00:27:26.339
the episode leading up to it.

568
00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:27.960
Yes, exactly. yeah.

569
00:27:28.019 --> 00:27:28.559
Yes.

570
00:27:28.619 --> 00:27:29.160
Yeah, yeah.

571
00:27:29.220 --> 00:27:34.500
And Toby Withhouse freely admits that the imagery of that

572
00:27:34.500 --> 00:27:38.700
cliffhanger is taken from the television miniseries of pet

573
00:27:38.700 --> 00:27:39.359
cemetery.

574
00:27:39.599 --> 00:27:45.720
Okay. when a child appears outside the young Petrie Boy's window

575
00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:51.000
as sort of a flying vampire figure and he sent that clip to Daniel

576
00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:53.099
O'Hara and he's like, this is what I have in mind.

577
00:28:02.160 --> 00:28:06.119
It's such a shame about Toby Whitehouse, because I really like a

578
00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:07.319
lot of his previous episodes.

579
00:28:07.380 --> 00:28:08.640
Town Call Mercy is Amazing.

580
00:28:08.700 --> 00:28:10.079
God complex is really good.

581
00:28:10.140 --> 00:28:12.420
School union is a script is really great.

582
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:14.940
He just doesn't land with this one.

583
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:17.279
I think that's a bit unfair.

584
00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:19.740
I mean, your reaction is obviously a lot more negative than mine

585
00:28:19.740 --> 00:28:21.660
and mine's not, well, mine's not really a negative reaction.

586
00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:23.759
But not hugely negative, I have to say.

587
00:28:23.819 --> 00:28:26.099
Like, I don't hate them, so I'm just a little bit not carried away

588
00:28:26.099 --> 00:28:26.519
by it.

589
00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:28.259
I just think it could be better.

590
00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:29.460
It could be better structured.

591
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:32.700
I think the fundamentals are all there, and certainly it's very

592
00:28:32.700 --> 00:28:33.180
very well made.

593
00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:36.660
It's just, there are just ways you can, I think you could improve

594
00:28:36.660 --> 00:28:36.900
it.

595
00:28:36.900 --> 00:28:39.480
Rather than it being, rather than it being, no, chuck this away.

596
00:28:39.539 --> 00:28:40.980
We're not we're not going to make this one.

597
00:28:41.099 --> 00:28:42.000
Yeah.

598
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:44.700
I'm a bit more negative because I think you could improve it by

599
00:28:44.700 --> 00:28:48.180
making it be about something for a start.

600
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:52.200
You know, like episode one is about ghosts and we get the mystery

601
00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:57.299
of how come there are ghosts, you know, and that's, I suppose

602
00:28:57.299 --> 00:28:57.779
something.

603
00:28:57.839 --> 00:28:59.339
It's sort of a thing.

604
00:28:59.400 --> 00:29:03.599
But we decide that the mystery is, no, they're actually ghosts or

605
00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:03.960
something.

606
00:29:04.019 --> 00:29:05.220
Like, what?

607
00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:08.400
like something happens next week and I'm just not sure what's

608
00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:08.880
going on there.

609
00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:13.380
And then the following week is the bootstrap paradox thing, which

610
00:29:13.380 --> 00:29:17.099
I think is done like a 1000000 times better in the Wedding of

611
00:29:17.099 --> 00:29:20.940
River Song without a big giant speech and without a whole lot of

612
00:29:20.940 --> 00:29:22.740
sort of song and dance about it.

613
00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:24.660
It's like a throwaway line at the end of an episode.

614
00:29:24.720 --> 00:29:28.500
But taking it back to the Impossible Planet, what makes Great

615
00:29:28.500 --> 00:29:30.960
Doctor Who is not just having a big concept.

616
00:29:31.019 --> 00:29:33.960
So, you know, okay, we're on an isolated base at the end of the

617
00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:35.279
universe and the devil is there.

618
00:29:35.339 --> 00:29:37.680
It's also that they then turn that into something.

619
00:29:37.740 --> 00:29:42.000
It's thematically about faith and, you know, what faith means to

620
00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:42.480
different people.

621
00:29:42.539 --> 00:29:46.559
Whereas I think this episode is lacking that big driving force, but

622
00:29:46.559 --> 00:29:48.539
also it's lacking talking about anything.

623
00:29:48.599 --> 00:29:50.220
There's no theme that's derived from it.

624
00:29:50.279 --> 00:29:51.000
No.

625
00:29:51.059 --> 00:29:57.180
So the characters, like it's plot but no story.

626
00:29:57.240 --> 00:29:58.680
That's a good way of putting it, actually.

627
00:29:59.220 --> 00:30:01.559
Yeah, like lots of stuff happening.

628
00:30:01.619 --> 00:30:05.160
There's been a script meeting and they've all discussed things

629
00:30:05.160 --> 00:30:07.319
that should happen and how it should develop and blah, blah, blah

630
00:30:07.319 --> 00:30:10.559
blah, and someone hasn't taken quite enough notes from it to then

631
00:30:10.559 --> 00:30:11.220
put it all together.

632
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:11.880
You're right.

633
00:30:11.940 --> 00:30:12.839
It's missing an element.

634
00:30:12.900 --> 00:30:17.339
It's missing something else to make it truly satisfying as opposed

635
00:30:17.339 --> 00:30:18.359
to just diverting.

636
00:30:18.420 --> 00:30:21.660
Yeah, I think it is diverting and I did enjoy it.

637
00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:26.579
I've watched it 3 times, I think, over this weekend and like I

638
00:30:26.579 --> 00:30:29.819
wasn't bored, but but there's nothing there.

639
00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:31.500
There isn't a there there.

640
00:30:31.559 --> 00:30:35.759
And I think that it does good Doctor Who things in order.

641
00:30:35.819 --> 00:30:37.319
On the surface, it looks great.

642
00:30:37.380 --> 00:30:40.440
Yeah, Capaldi's really fun in it.

643
00:30:40.500 --> 00:30:42.960
You know, like the regulars are both doing a really good job.

644
00:30:43.019 --> 00:30:47.519
I like all of the characters, which I haven't done, for instance

645
00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:51.960
in the gangers 2 parter, but it doesn't have the big idea that

646
00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:54.420
even the gangers 2 parter has.

647
00:30:54.839 --> 00:30:56.700
And actually, that's my takeaway from the episode.

648
00:30:56.759 --> 00:30:59.039
It's Doctor Who going through the motion. to me.

649
00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:03.059
I find those comments interesting because getting back to

650
00:31:03.059 --> 00:31:05.880
something, I think you said earlier, Simon, about the sort of

651
00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:09.660
thinness of the plot and the structure. what you were talking

652
00:31:09.660 --> 00:31:10.319
about, the structure.

653
00:31:10.380 --> 00:31:15.299
I actually really like the slow burn of this episode.

654
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:21.240
I feel like we have a feeling of dread rather than necessarily a

655
00:31:21.240 --> 00:31:25.440
feeling of suspense, which I can understand isn't to everyone's

656
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:25.740
taste.

657
00:31:25.799 --> 00:31:32.099
As for what the story is about outside of its own plot and the

658
00:31:32.099 --> 00:31:33.180
paradox.

659
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:35.940
I think it is pushing along.

660
00:31:36.059 --> 00:31:41.160
The idea of the magician's apprentice that Clara is getting too

661
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:46.319
close to the sun, to use Icarus as an example.

662
00:31:46.380 --> 00:31:48.539
Does it advance it that much?

663
00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:52.140
Perhaps not, but we do see the other characters here reacting to

664
00:31:52.140 --> 00:31:55.799
it, and even more so next week when she puts Lunn in danger, and

665
00:31:55.799 --> 00:31:59.940
there's that brilliant bit from cast of her very aggressively

666
00:31:59.940 --> 00:32:02.039
signing, and Clara's saying, well, I don't need a translation for

667
00:32:02.039 --> 00:32:02.279
that.

668
00:32:03.660 --> 00:32:07.140
If I could talk about the sign language aspect for a moment.

669
00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:12.539
Because I do have a friend who is deaf, so I have a little bit of

670
00:32:12.539 --> 00:32:16.259
sign, as he puts it, I have the sign level of about a 4 year old

671
00:32:16.259 --> 00:32:17.519
but...

672
00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:21.779
I do have a little bit of sign, and Ozlan, Australian sign

673
00:32:21.779 --> 00:32:24.779
language, is quite similar to British sign language, but just

674
00:32:24.779 --> 00:32:27.180
listening to how they did it on the set.

675
00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:30.960
So they had Sophie Stone, who outside of the show users hearing

676
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:32.339
aids, but couldn't use them in the show.

677
00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:37.740
They have Zaki Ismail, whose older sister is deaf.

678
00:32:37.799 --> 00:32:40.259
So he already knew sign language.

679
00:32:40.319 --> 00:32:41.400
This is his 1st television.

680
00:32:41.460 --> 00:32:42.299
Wow.

681
00:32:42.420 --> 00:32:46.140
And and he was hired because he knew sign language.

682
00:32:46.140 --> 00:32:49.619
And something Sophie says on the commentary is because someone in

683
00:32:49.619 --> 00:32:53.400
his family is deaf, he signs differently from a professional

684
00:32:53.400 --> 00:32:54.240
interpreter.

685
00:32:54.299 --> 00:33:00.000
And it creates, she said, you know, people who don't know sign may

686
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:03.180
not know this, but it creates that feeling of intimacy between me

687
00:33:03.180 --> 00:33:05.759
and him because he's signing casually.

688
00:33:05.819 --> 00:33:06.900
Right, right.

689
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:10.619
But she also said, in the script, my character talks about nuclear

690
00:33:10.619 --> 00:33:11.099
fission.

691
00:33:11.160 --> 00:33:13.200
There is no sign for nuclear fission.

692
00:33:13.259 --> 00:33:16.440
And she's like, so you have to spell it out or use other terms, and

693
00:33:16.440 --> 00:33:17.400
it was taking too long.

694
00:33:17.460 --> 00:33:22.140
So that line was given to someone else because otherwise it's just

695
00:33:22.140 --> 00:33:24.720
people watching him moving his hands.

696
00:33:24.779 --> 00:33:27.480
And she's like, for other stuff, we made up new signs because

697
00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:28.619
we're 200 years in the future.

698
00:33:28.680 --> 00:33:30.960
And sometimes we just shot over his shoulder.

699
00:33:31.019 --> 00:33:34.740
So you can't see what he's signing for the more complex things.

700
00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:38.400
And she just talks about, you know, how the production really

701
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:39.240
worked to adapt it.

702
00:33:39.299 --> 00:33:44.099
Capaldi was really keen to make sure that he was communicating

703
00:33:44.099 --> 00:33:47.759
with her as an actress and as a character to get it all right.

704
00:33:47.819 --> 00:33:49.859
And she says, funny story with Jenna.

705
00:33:49.920 --> 00:33:51.420
Those scenes in the Faraday cage.

706
00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:57.059
Jenna took ages to understand that in order for Sophie to

707
00:33:57.059 --> 00:33:59.460
understand her, she needed to see her lips.

708
00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:00.539
Yeah, right.

709
00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:04.019
And she's like, but then we talked with Daniel O'Hara, the

710
00:34:04.019 --> 00:34:07.019
director, and we made that part of their relationship because they

711
00:34:07.019 --> 00:34:08.820
were antagonistic towards each other in that scene.

712
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:13.500
Um, and Toby Whithouse does say with the deafness aspect, it came

713
00:34:13.500 --> 00:34:15.900
from, he wanted a character who could lip read.

714
00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:19.380
Well, who could lip read, naturally, a deaf person, but also he'd

715
00:34:19.380 --> 00:34:22.739
done sort of diversity training and kind of went, well, I don't

716
00:34:22.739 --> 00:34:28.139
want to make it that is her whole character, but it does mean she

717
00:34:28.139 --> 00:34:29.639
reacts to situations differently.

718
00:34:29.699 --> 00:34:33.659
And so I think that that way it's written really.

719
00:34:33.780 --> 00:34:37.139
It's just her character has written so well for me.

720
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:40.800
I really liked all of that.

721
00:34:40.860 --> 00:34:41.639
I think.

722
00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:44.219
And that is one of the strengths of the episode.

723
00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:47.940
And that it doesn't kind of find a space way of getting around the

724
00:34:47.940 --> 00:34:49.199
fact that she can't hear.

725
00:34:49.260 --> 00:34:53.159
We just have to sign and we see we see Lunn signing.

726
00:34:53.219 --> 00:34:56.099
And I love the moment where Lunn kind of is so used to just

727
00:34:56.099 --> 00:35:00.059
speaking forecasts that when he's asked who's in charge.

728
00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:03.539
He says, I am, but he's just relaying her word.

729
00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:05.039
I think that's insured.

730
00:35:05.039 --> 00:35:06.000
As in her.

731
00:35:06.059 --> 00:35:07.260
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

732
00:35:07.320 --> 00:35:12.119
And I think too, like they do make an effort this episode to

733
00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:17.400
foreshadow the conclusion to next week's episode where we discover

734
00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:18.840
everyone's in love with everyone else.

735
00:35:18.900 --> 00:35:24.059
Suddenly, it's like a Midsummer night's dream. you know 60 fathoms

736
00:35:24.059 --> 00:35:24.780
underwater.

737
00:35:24.840 --> 00:35:29.940
Um, and they, there's that scene where where everyone escapes

738
00:35:29.940 --> 00:35:35.699
after locking the ghosts in the Faraday cage and Lon and Cass are

739
00:35:35.699 --> 00:35:38.699
kind of hugging and congratulating one another, um, Bennett and

740
00:35:38.699 --> 00:35:43.079
O'Donnell are as well and Clara's kind of like the 5th wheel going

741
00:35:43.079 --> 00:35:46.440
you know, I'm okay too, by the way, just in case anyone cared.

742
00:35:46.500 --> 00:35:48.900
So they did make an attempt, I think, to do that.

743
00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:55.199
And I do think the closeness of Cass and Lun is sold here, I

744
00:35:55.199 --> 00:35:55.559
think.

745
00:35:55.619 --> 00:35:59.880
And just having that information about how he signed just adds to

746
00:35:59.880 --> 00:36:00.420
that, I think.

747
00:36:13.980 --> 00:36:18.840
This put me in mind of Hyde, it's an episode that sets out to be

748
00:36:18.840 --> 00:36:21.300
something and isn't quite it at the end of the day.

749
00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:23.699
So Hyde wants to be a ghost story like this is.

750
00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:27.659
And so it says, that's great. do a doctor ghost story, and that'll

751
00:36:27.659 --> 00:36:29.460
be really creepy, except that it's not.

752
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:31.619
It actually turns out to be quite boring, Hyde.

753
00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:34.679
And I feel the same about this to a lesser degree in that I can

754
00:36:34.679 --> 00:36:36.179
see what it's setting out to do.

755
00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:39.059
I just don't think that the end result really justifies setting

756
00:36:39.059 --> 00:36:39.780
out to do that.

757
00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:42.119
Well, that's what you're saying is what Nathan said before.

758
00:36:42.179 --> 00:36:44.099
I think the problem with both of them is that it's missing that

759
00:36:44.099 --> 00:36:46.380
additional element to make it actually interesting.

760
00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:51.059
Yeah, I mean, Hyde does at least have a thematic thing where

761
00:36:51.059 --> 00:36:55.980
you've got the 2 leads, you know, the 2 guest stars in love with

762
00:36:55.980 --> 00:37:00.119
one another, but not fully aware of it, and then we get the creepy

763
00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:02.159
monster in love with the other creepy monster.

764
00:37:02.219 --> 00:37:03.000
Do you know what I mean?

765
00:37:03.059 --> 00:37:05.340
But I mean, that's so ludicrous and it happens so close to the end

766
00:37:05.340 --> 00:37:08.760
of the episode anyway, that it doesn't end up telling us anything

767
00:37:08.760 --> 00:37:11.400
or being interesting in any particular way.

768
00:37:11.460 --> 00:37:15.599
Here, I think ghosts and then time paradox.

769
00:37:15.659 --> 00:37:20.579
Neither of those are interesting enough ideas to hang an episode

770
00:37:20.579 --> 00:37:22.619
on.

771
00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:24.840
And so there's fun things that happen.

772
00:37:24.900 --> 00:37:27.960
It's kind of treating it like it's a new, interesting idea.

773
00:37:28.019 --> 00:37:30.420
Like, we should be really invested in this.

774
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:31.739
I've seen this 100 times before.

775
00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:36.360
Picking up on what Tom said a couple of weeks ago about Dr. and

776
00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:38.639
the Clara in the Tartar, same old, same old.

777
00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:42.239
Maybe there is an element here that, you know, Stephen Moffatt and

778
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:46.199
Toby is, so Stephen Moffatt is like the time paradox guy in Doctor

779
00:37:46.199 --> 00:37:46.800
Who, yeah?

780
00:37:46.860 --> 00:37:49.619
And Toby Withouse creates being human.

781
00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:54.360
And the whole Faraday cage in this, by the way, was an idea for a

782
00:37:54.360 --> 00:37:56.099
plot in being human that didn't materialise.

783
00:37:56.159 --> 00:38:00.300
I think there is a machine in series 2 of being human that...

784
00:38:00.300 --> 00:38:04.380
Yeah, originally it was a Faraday cage and then it got changed to

785
00:38:04.380 --> 00:38:04.920
something else.

786
00:38:04.980 --> 00:38:09.480
So perhaps part of the problem is for Stephen Mofford and Toby

787
00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:12.539
Whitehouse, this is just bread and butter and normal.

788
00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:15.900
And sometimes they forget that actually, this is a new and

789
00:38:15.900 --> 00:38:16.679
exciting idea.

790
00:38:16.739 --> 00:38:20.880
And I think the opening monologue next week tries to do that, and

791
00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:22.860
Toby Withouse was very surprised he got it passed.

792
00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:26.219
Got it past the draft stage.

793
00:38:26.340 --> 00:38:30.119
Yeah, maybe that is what, where things fall a bit flat.

794
00:38:30.179 --> 00:38:32.880
As you say, Peter, that we're just treating this like business as

795
00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:37.019
usual when it's like this should be exciting.

796
00:38:37.079 --> 00:38:40.739
And if we look back to like Day of the Daleks, the doctor is quite

797
00:38:40.739 --> 00:38:43.860
blasé about the idea of goes from the future, but the reason we

798
00:38:43.860 --> 00:38:47.519
think it's exciting is because Joe is freaked out by being in a

799
00:38:47.519 --> 00:38:50.699
haunted house and constantly questions who could these people

800
00:38:50.699 --> 00:38:51.300
possibly be?

801
00:38:51.360 --> 00:38:55.679
We do try and sell the ghosts as a big deal though, don't we?

802
00:38:55.739 --> 00:38:59.400
Because the doctor, there's that fantastic moment where the doctor

803
00:38:59.400 --> 00:39:02.460
kind of goes, you know, they only come out at night.

804
00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:06.360
They kind of see through, 0 my god, they're really ghosts and he's

805
00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:06.900
super excited.

806
00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:09.719
The TARDIS doesn't like the ghosts and doesn't want to be near

807
00:39:09.719 --> 00:39:10.199
them.

808
00:39:10.260 --> 00:39:15.900
You know, there's something about breaking that fundamental rule

809
00:39:15.900 --> 00:39:19.260
of the universe, that everyone dies and then they're dead.

810
00:39:19.320 --> 00:39:25.079
Like there's a lot of talk to try and make ghosts a big deal.

811
00:39:25.139 --> 00:39:28.139
But the trouble is that they're not really a big deal.

812
00:39:28.199 --> 00:39:31.920
And even in the Doctor Who context, there have been so many aliens

813
00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:35.940
that are ghosts, you know, the Vardens, the Gelf, you know, like

814
00:39:35.940 --> 00:39:38.760
all of this sort of thing, we've had this over and over again over

815
00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:39.239
the years.

816
00:39:39.300 --> 00:39:44.039
And so it's not as interesting as I think it wants to be or not as

817
00:39:44.039 --> 00:39:47.159
not as big a deal as the script seems to make of it, I think.

818
00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:50.219
And even going back to something like Day of the Daleks, there's

819
00:39:50.219 --> 00:39:53.699
always rational explanations for what ghosts are.

820
00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:54.780
And so we're just waiting for that.

821
00:39:54.840 --> 00:39:56.280
It's going to happen at some point.

822
00:39:56.340 --> 00:39:57.059
And it never does.

823
00:39:57.119 --> 00:39:58.500
Spoilers for next week.

824
00:39:58.559 --> 00:40:02.760
It turns out there really goes, you know, like it's sort of

825
00:40:02.820 --> 00:40:04.079
something.

826
00:40:04.139 --> 00:40:05.219
I don't even know what it is.

827
00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:08.519
Our explanation includes the word souls.

828
00:40:08.579 --> 00:40:11.579
So I don't think it can be said to be an explanation.

829
00:40:11.639 --> 00:40:12.539
Do you know what I mean?

830
00:40:12.599 --> 00:40:15.659
It's just like more words describing the thing.

831
00:40:15.719 --> 00:40:20.159
Well, that was the responsibility of thumb script exec Lindsay

832
00:40:20.159 --> 00:40:20.699
Alford.

833
00:40:20.699 --> 00:40:21.179
Okay.

834
00:40:21.179 --> 00:40:24.900
Because basically Toby Woodhouse is like, I want to use ghosts, but

835
00:40:24.900 --> 00:40:26.940
we need to come up with a scientific explanation.

836
00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:29.340
And Moffat said, well, that's Lindsay Alford's job.

837
00:40:29.400 --> 00:40:34.320
And so she researched and there are theories that spectral

838
00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:37.079
happenings are a result of electromagnetism.

839
00:40:37.079 --> 00:40:40.619
And that's where the Faraday cage cuts in. the car before the

840
00:40:40.619 --> 00:40:40.860
horse.

841
00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:42.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

842
00:40:43.019 --> 00:40:45.000
It's very much, we want a story with ghosts.

843
00:40:45.059 --> 00:40:46.619
How can we scientifically make this work?

844
00:40:46.679 --> 00:40:48.239
I think we had a discussion.

845
00:40:48.300 --> 00:40:52.800
Oh, I can't remember where in maximum power series C, but we were

846
00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:55.559
talking about how they come up with some ridiculous science to

847
00:40:55.559 --> 00:40:59.039
justify a world. what episode it was now.

848
00:40:59.099 --> 00:41:00.960
I mean, it was kind of like.

849
00:41:01.559 --> 00:41:05.699
Well, I mean, the fact that they land on electromagnetism and that

850
00:41:05.699 --> 00:41:08.219
they give them the ability and there's that great moment where the

851
00:41:08.219 --> 00:41:11.219
doctor says, oh, and 0 my God, I only just realised that I noticed

852
00:41:11.219 --> 00:41:15.719
that, you know, that they can only touch and manipulate metal

853
00:41:15.719 --> 00:41:16.440
objects.

854
00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:19.559
And I think there's 2 really terrific seeds, which is one where

855
00:41:19.559 --> 00:41:24.000
Moran's ghost is dragging the axe along the floor.

856
00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:30.000
And then that other superb scene where Lan is menaced by a ghost

857
00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:35.519
and we recreate the, you know, alien 3 moment with Sigourney

858
00:41:35.519 --> 00:41:40.199
Weaver. and then the ghost goes and picks up like the world's

859
00:41:40.199 --> 00:41:41.219
biggest spanner.

860
00:41:41.219 --> 00:41:43.980
I was about to brain him with it.

861
00:41:44.039 --> 00:41:45.300
Yeah.

862
00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:47.280
And like all of that works quite well.

863
00:41:47.340 --> 00:41:50.519
I think the mystery, you know, like why does he not get attacked?

864
00:41:50.579 --> 00:41:54.119
Like, I think that mystery is solved in a good way, you know, the

865
00:41:54.119 --> 00:41:57.599
way that they noticed that the ghosts want to show them the inside

866
00:41:57.599 --> 00:41:59.099
of the spaceship.

867
00:41:59.159 --> 00:42:03.000
All of that sort of stuff is really good, like the deductions and

868
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:03.300
stuff.

869
00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:04.440
I don't know.

870
00:42:04.500 --> 00:42:05.219
I don't know.

871
00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:07.739
So I think there's some good visuals and good bones, you know.

872
00:42:07.800 --> 00:42:09.300
Oh, there's definitely good visual.

873
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:11.039
And then living quarters are good bones, apparently.

874
00:42:24.179 --> 00:42:28.260
I've remembered which podcast it was where we discussed how

875
00:42:28.260 --> 00:42:34.019
terrible science can ruin something for you and um, and it's, you

876
00:42:34.019 --> 00:42:36.599
know, it's a responsibility.

877
00:42:36.659 --> 00:42:39.539
Yeah, at the risk of reopening old wounds and making daddy and

878
00:42:39.539 --> 00:42:42.059
daddy fight again, it was killer mood.

879
00:42:44.219 --> 00:42:47.940
Well, speaking of that, what about Orion's belt?

880
00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:52.199
Simon, I was expecting you to be able to tell us that just because

881
00:42:52.199 --> 00:42:57.599
the sort of Orion appears like 3 stars in a line in the sky

882
00:42:57.599 --> 00:43:02.219
they're not going to be 3 lines in three-dimensional space that

883
00:43:02.219 --> 00:43:03.719
eventually points out.

884
00:43:03.719 --> 00:43:04.860
I haven't actually checked that.

885
00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:06.059
Well, it's certainly not the point.

886
00:43:06.119 --> 00:43:08.039
They're certainly not going to point to earth because when we're

887
00:43:08.039 --> 00:43:10.739
looking at them, they're pointing in different directions.

888
00:43:10.860 --> 00:43:13.139
Over somewhere else.

889
00:43:13.199 --> 00:43:17.039
It's just, but also, I just found that a bit kind of, it was just

890
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:20.219
a very long bow, that was a thing.

891
00:43:20.219 --> 00:43:23.219
And, okay, they decided they wanted to put in the script to some

892
00:43:23.219 --> 00:43:26.099
reference to an actual constellation, a real constellation out

893
00:43:26.099 --> 00:43:27.420
there that you can see.

894
00:43:27.480 --> 00:43:30.840
But I just worry that in the modern era, people just don't know

895
00:43:30.840 --> 00:43:31.739
that sort of stuff.

896
00:43:31.800 --> 00:43:33.840
They wouldn't even know what the sort of variety is.

897
00:43:33.900 --> 00:43:34.980
They would barely know.

898
00:43:35.099 --> 00:43:37.320
I mean, with light pollution in cities, you can barely see it

899
00:43:37.320 --> 00:43:37.800
anyway.

900
00:43:37.860 --> 00:43:41.280
Yeah, and the whole three-dimensions thing pointing is just

901
00:43:41.280 --> 00:43:41.519
wrong.

902
00:43:41.579 --> 00:43:44.579
It's kind of like, we have to have the ghosts chanting this

903
00:43:44.579 --> 00:43:45.059
stuff.

904
00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:46.800
So what are they going to chant?

905
00:43:46.860 --> 00:43:49.079
they're going to chant like a coordinate so that each thing has to

906
00:43:49.079 --> 00:43:51.239
be some kind of, you know, poetic reference.

907
00:43:51.300 --> 00:43:54.780
It can't just be, it can't just be soul 3 or something, you know

908
00:43:54.780 --> 00:43:58.320
it has to be a, something in detail and, uh, some, something come

909
00:43:58.320 --> 00:43:59.460
always, it's just terrible.

910
00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:02.760
And Nathan, you do a podcast on 90s Star Trek.

911
00:44:02.820 --> 00:44:05.760
You know that space is 2D and not 3D. Yes, exactly, right?

912
00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:12.960
So there is this weird system, and I can't remember what it's

913
00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:15.719
called, and I will undoubtedly research it and put it in the show

914
00:44:15.719 --> 00:44:20.039
notes now that I'm saying this. where every spot on earth, and I

915
00:44:20.039 --> 00:44:23.940
think it's like 2 by 2 metre squares or something, is specified by

916
00:44:23.940 --> 00:44:25.320
3 dictionary words.

917
00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:31.139
And because, yeah, there's enough words in the world that you can

918
00:44:31.139 --> 00:44:36.300
divide up the earth's surface and specify a very, very specific

919
00:44:36.300 --> 00:44:37.860
place with 3 words.

920
00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:42.059
Now, here it's just not going to work in any way at all.

921
00:44:42.119 --> 00:44:44.519
I do like the words that are chosen.

922
00:44:44.579 --> 00:44:48.599
Like it's the dark, the sword, the forsaken, the temple.

923
00:44:48.659 --> 00:44:51.300
There's something mythic about it and that works really.

924
00:44:51.360 --> 00:44:54.599
Well, it works well with the revelation that the monster is the

925
00:44:54.599 --> 00:44:57.840
fisher king, although that just appears to be a name, uh, and

926
00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:01.380
nothing sort of particularly to do with our theory and legend or

927
00:45:01.380 --> 00:45:01.619
anything.

928
00:45:01.679 --> 00:45:06.719
But I think that sounds wonderful, but not for a 2nd does it

929
00:45:06.719 --> 00:45:11.639
convinces a potential coordinate that specifies a particular

930
00:45:11.639 --> 00:45:14.159
building anywhere in the use.

931
00:45:14.280 --> 00:45:14.460
Exactly.

932
00:45:14.519 --> 00:45:15.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

933
00:45:15.780 --> 00:45:19.619
Like, if it was 2 stars forming the sort of Orion, obviously there

934
00:45:19.619 --> 00:45:21.179
would be a line that went through all of them.

935
00:45:21.239 --> 00:45:24.059
But if there's three, then there's literally no chance that

936
00:45:24.059 --> 00:45:26.340
there's a straight line that goes through all three.

937
00:45:26.400 --> 00:45:28.380
No, no, no, no, there's always...

938
00:45:28.380 --> 00:45:30.659
It's infinitesimal chance.

939
00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:33.900
And they do get the detail right that one's a nebula, which is

940
00:45:33.900 --> 00:45:34.139
good.

941
00:45:34.139 --> 00:45:37.440
That was good, but that's so, so brief that it's like, well, who's

942
00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:37.980
going to remember?

943
00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:40.800
It's just, I think if you're going to do the sign.

944
00:45:40.860 --> 00:45:43.380
I mean I know we don't want to do the science lesson, but I just I

945
00:45:43.380 --> 00:45:45.539
just think that it's it could have been done a bit more

946
00:45:45.539 --> 00:45:46.019
interestingly.

947
00:45:46.139 --> 00:45:49.500
Well, it just comes from the Terry Nation school of not knowing

948
00:45:49.500 --> 00:45:53.940
what a constellation, a universe or a galaxy are. or a solar

949
00:45:53.940 --> 00:45:54.239
system.

950
00:45:54.420 --> 00:45:56.940
Or famously a quadrant.

951
00:45:57.360 --> 00:46:00.840
Actually, to be fair, to be fair, those 3 bodies, one of which is

952
00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:04.260
a nebula, are actually only 600, are within 600 light years of

953
00:46:04.260 --> 00:46:04.860
each other.

954
00:46:04.860 --> 00:46:06.960
And they're about to occur light years away from us.

955
00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:10.079
But they're certainly not pointing towards us.

956
00:46:10.139 --> 00:46:11.159
No.

957
00:46:11.219 --> 00:46:12.719
That is a great visual, though.

958
00:46:12.780 --> 00:46:15.960
I do think that that is good visual kind of storytelling.

959
00:46:16.019 --> 00:46:18.599
We talked about character consistency before.

960
00:46:18.659 --> 00:46:21.480
Don't you love the fact that the doctor has now done a complete

961
00:46:21.480 --> 00:46:24.059
180 around his attitude to the military once again?

962
00:46:24.119 --> 00:46:26.940
So, you know, he's all, you know, he's all trying to inspire them

963
00:46:26.940 --> 00:46:29.280
with their vows about protecting and serving and so on.

964
00:46:29.400 --> 00:46:33.360
Do you know, I actually really like that scene as well, and I

965
00:46:33.360 --> 00:46:37.739
think Murray does a great job by putting a version of the doctor's

966
00:46:37.739 --> 00:46:44.039
theme in there, and where even Bennett, who has one characteristic

967
00:46:44.039 --> 00:46:47.099
which is that he's kind of scared of everything.

968
00:46:47.159 --> 00:46:50.820
Even he agrees that staying behind is the right thing to do

969
00:46:50.880 --> 00:46:54.059
because he, like the doctor is intrigued by the ghosts.

970
00:46:54.179 --> 00:46:56.519
And I think that's a good doctorary moment.

971
00:46:56.579 --> 00:46:57.719
That's what the doctor does.

972
00:46:57.780 --> 00:46:58.860
He makes people better.

973
00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:03.420
And so I really thought that scene landed really quite well.

974
00:47:04.380 --> 00:47:07.380
But yes, like that military thing.

975
00:47:07.440 --> 00:47:09.480
We're just going to now completely...

976
00:47:09.480 --> 00:47:10.920
And the doctor's famous.

977
00:47:10.980 --> 00:47:14.460
Like everyone knows who the doctor is now. tedious.

978
00:47:14.519 --> 00:47:14.880
No.

979
00:47:14.940 --> 00:47:19.619
Haven't they made like 3 different stabs at removing him from the

980
00:47:19.619 --> 00:47:20.519
history of the universe?

981
00:47:20.579 --> 00:47:24.239
and And then in the next episode, they've decided that he's famous

982
00:47:24.239 --> 00:47:24.599
again.

983
00:47:24.659 --> 00:47:26.039
It's just, you know.

984
00:47:26.820 --> 00:47:30.539
And it's both Russell and Moffatt do it too.

985
00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:34.079
If they don't want him to be continuously famous, he should stop

986
00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:35.579
saving the universe.

987
00:47:36.119 --> 00:47:39.840
No, he should keep telling everyone not to tell anyone like Pete

988
00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:41.820
does in Frontios.

989
00:47:41.880 --> 00:47:43.139
That's kind of amazing.

990
00:47:46.199 --> 00:47:48.179
Next week, of course, I'm not going to be here.

991
00:47:48.300 --> 00:47:51.780
So I just need to mention that the village that we visit next week

992
00:47:51.780 --> 00:47:56.880
is around the year 1980, which means it's after...

993
00:47:57.719 --> 00:47:59.099
You're not.

994
00:48:02.219 --> 00:48:06.900
Now that means in terms of Doctor Who production, it's after Daryl

995
00:48:06.900 --> 00:48:08.460
Blake, but before Gerald Flood.

996
00:48:10.199 --> 00:48:11.880
Brilliant.

997
00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:14.519
That is really funny.

998
00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:15.840
That is really great.

999
00:48:15.900 --> 00:48:17.760
That is pretty brave.

1000
00:48:43.079 --> 00:48:47.880
Well, Alyssa, it looks like the doctor's definitely dead this time

1001
00:48:47.880 --> 00:48:50.579
so we'll see you next week for what might turn out to be a very

1002
00:48:50.579 --> 00:48:53.639
short episode, indeed, in before the flood.

1003
00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:57.719
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1004
00:48:57.719 --> 00:49:00.960
and you can keep up with us on our website, flightthroughentirety

1005
00:48:59.460 --> 00:49:03.900
com, where you'll find all our social media links, as well as

1006
00:49:03.900 --> 00:49:07.679
links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody Interterra, maximum

1007
00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:10.380
power, and untitled Star Trek project.

1008
00:49:10.440 --> 00:49:14.699
Until next time, remember that when furnishing an underwater base

1009
00:49:14.699 --> 00:49:18.179
it's important to only buy lights that make loud banging noises

1010
00:49:18.179 --> 00:49:19.500
when you turn them on and off.

1011
00:49:19.559 --> 00:49:21.960
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1012
00:49:22.019 --> 00:49:23.099
Bang.

1013
00:49:23.159 --> 00:49:23.639
Good night.

1014
00:49:23.699 --> 00:49:24.780
Good night.

1015
00:49:24.840 --> 00:49:25.739
Bye finesse.

1016
00:49:31.800 --> 00:49:34.320
That was Flight Through Entirety.

1017
00:49:34.380 --> 00:49:36.659
Sorry, Nathan Modernly, Peter Griffith, Sprinda, Jones, and Simon

1018
00:49:36.659 --> 00:49:37.139
Moore.

1019
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:39.239
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1020
00:49:39.300 --> 00:49:42.420
This episode, baseless criticism, was recorded on the 13th of

1021
00:49:42.420 --> 00:49:45.000
August 2023, and released on the 1st of October.

1022
00:49:45.659 --> 00:49:50.219
A whole new era of Doctor Who starts next month, and the FDE

1023
00:49:50.219 --> 00:49:53.340
podcasting universe will be there to cover it with a flash cast

1024
00:49:53.340 --> 00:49:55.800
released a day or 2 after each new episode.

1025
00:49:55.860 --> 00:49:58.019
Watch this space for detail.

1026
00:50:07.139 --> 00:50:10.980
There's altogether too much heterosexuality going on in the space

1027
00:50:10.980 --> 00:50:11.820
though, I have to say.

1028
00:50:11.880 --> 00:50:14.159
Maybe I should save that for next week.

1029
00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:18.480
If there was a law, it would be against it.

1030
00:50:19.380 --> 00:50:22.380
The Fisher King's bisexual.

1031
00:50:22.440 --> 00:50:26.039
It's in a comic somewhere.

1032
00:50:26.099 --> 00:50:26.940
So it counts.

1033
00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:28.079
That's right.

1034
00:50:28.139 --> 00:50:29.280
He's the fishwife to his friends.

1035
00:50:30.599 --> 00:50:32.519
On Saturdays.

1036
00:50:33.300 --> 00:50:36.780
This put me in mind of Hyde.