WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 14:08:58

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast too cheap to commission an electric

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guitar version of the theme tune this week.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm James I'm Peter.

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And I'm Fraser.

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Well, last week we saw the consequences of the doctor's death.

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So this week we'll be asking ourselves the question, if it's not

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wrong to change the present, how can it be wrong to change the

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future or the past?

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Let's see if we can come up with an answer as we discuss before

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the flood.

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So, Fraser, you weren't here with us last week.

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And so, how did you find the first part of this story?

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It was really good.

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I remember watching it, you know, 1st time round enough.

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I remember the series night started with a really strong opening.

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It had, which is familiar, Magician's Apprentice, and then you

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came into under the lake and before the flood is the next 2 part

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and I thought the 1st part was really, really strong.

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The story.

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Coming back to rewatch, again, thought exactly the same.

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It's just classic based under siege, isn't it?

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You know, you've got your cast of characters.

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You've got a really claustrophobic, intense setting, gets warriors

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of the deep done right underwater sea base, but it's damp.

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It's rusty, you know, you can feel that moisture in the air, which

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is what worries the deepest is sadly missing.

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And then the ghosts coming in is tremendous fun as well with, you

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know, just how spooky they are, the shimmer around the edges, the

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missing eyes is just really quite terrifying for a family show.

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You can see why this one went out a little bit later than the 7

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o'clock slot.

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And that just kind of builds up to that, that brilliant

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cliffhanger of, you know, the doctor's gone back in time and then

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what do you see out the window, but the doctor's ghost and in

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comes the credits and you just say, all right, how are you going

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to get out of this one?

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It's absolutely classic, isn't it?

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We were really positive about the cliffhanger.

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And one of the things we said last week, too, was that it's really

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fun to see Capaldi doing all of this stuff.

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Capaldi did have a sort of base under siege with last Christmas

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but that was all sort of ridiculous and made up plus Santa.

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So this is his proper 1st base under siege and so he gets to be

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dismissive of whoever's in charge and all of that sort of thing.

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You know, he comes in like he owns the place.

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It's really fun to watch and you can see that he's really enjoying

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it.

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He's having a wheel of a team, isn't he?

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He's absolutely loving himself in this one.

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And I think that's, that's, that's a bit of a difference between

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you know, his 2nd series in his 1st series is how much more fun

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his doctor seems to be having since he was 80, he seems to be kind

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of, you know, he's a little bit tortured.

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He's a little bit, am I a good man?

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You know, why am I doing all of this?

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When you get into series 9, he's cut loose a lot more and you

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obviously have that scene with him where he is bouncing off the

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walls of that control room until the rest of the crew have to

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point out actually someone just died.

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Our friend just died and he has to get these cards out.

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So there's that element of his performance in here, which is

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really enjoyable.

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I think too, the way that this starts is really good.

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So we get the traditional kind of previously on, but then we're

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somewhere else, and we're somewhere that we haven't seen before

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and we don't get a reprise as such.

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We just get the previously on and then suddenly we're in 1980 in

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the village.

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And I'm not hugely sold on the village in a sense.

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I don't think it's that fascinating a place, but I don't mind the

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Soviet era propaganda posters.

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I think that just about sells it.

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No, absolutely.

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I think it's a really interesting idea, but they don't do anything

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with it, really.

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It's just a backdrop.

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There's nothing which is integral to the story.

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And it could have been really fascinating.

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Having said that, I do think I was a little bit underwhelmed

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by...

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Under the lake, I'm more whelmed by this episode.

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Oh, I think it's actually, because we do change location because

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there is more happening in the story and we are cutting back to

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the base, I feel like it's more of a traditional doctor episode

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whereas last week's episode, as I said, then it felt like we were

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going through the motions a little bit, this is actually going off

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on a slightly more interesting tangent.

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It does that Moffat thing where the 2nd part of a two-parter has

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to pivot and do something significantly different.

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So, you know, changes location, changes the gear of the story

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turns everything on its head, which keeps things interesting, I

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think.

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So he introduces 2 new elements.

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So we get to see the village, which we had seen submerged out the

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window at the beginning of last week.

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And then we get this time paradox thing.

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And that is sort of hinted at, it's gestured at at the end of last

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week, but it really comes in here.

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So that opening, so you remember the opening of listen, right?

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And the doctor is talking to himself, and he's really genuinely

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talking to himself, he's in the TARDIS.

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He's going a bit bonkers and he's starting to talk to himself and

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he's starting to theorise about why people talk to themselves.

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And the normal answer to a question like that is because this is a

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soliloquy and, you know, you're in a show and we need to know what

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you're thinking.

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But there's a real reason he doesn't have a companion this week.

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That's right That's right.

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And so there's a real reason for it because he's going a bit

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mental and he is talking to himself and he's theorising about why

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people talk to themselves.

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Here we don't have that.

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This doesn't happen.

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Like, spoiler alert, none of it happens, right?

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It's a TV show.

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But this doesn't happen.

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Like, but it actually works really well because I think the

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doctor's a great lecturer.

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And so having him deliver a lecture to us is really great.

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But I found myself surprised that we made such heavy weather of

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the actual paradox.

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It's like there's this new and interesting thing, a time paradox.

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It's like, have you seen doctor?

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I do like the line where he says, it's the bootstrap paradox.

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Google it.

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Like I thought that was brilliant.

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Like, that was really...

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That was really great.

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But essentially, I think at least one of Matt Smith's fezes is a

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bootstrap paradox fez that doesn't have any actual origin.

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It's a hat strap.

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That's right.

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I think that time crash is a bootstrap paradox where the 10th

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doctor remembers how to solve the thing because when he was the

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5th doctor.

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He listened to the 10th doctor talking about how to solve the

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thing.

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And so that solution doesn't come from anywhere.

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And I think, too, the predestination paradox that we have here

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which is the doctor is definitely, definitely dead.

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And how do we get out of this is what season 6 is it all about?

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And get solved really quite kind of deftly in a funny way at the

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end of season 6 where the doctor just...

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No, no, that seriously.

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So, you know, the doctor almost forgets that he has to solve the

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problem of the death at Lake Salencio.

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And so he sticks his head around the corner just after speaking to

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the test elector and says, oh, actually, wait, there is one thing

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I can get you to do.

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And then he solves that problem.

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And so the essence of not changing time is changing what

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everything means.

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So what you see still happens, but it means something different

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and that's how you change time.

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So the box doesn't have the Fisher King in it.

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It's got the doctor in it.

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And I think maybe we probably predicted that in episode one if we

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had our wits about us.

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I mean, I would say yes.

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Yeah, let's say yes.

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It sounds smart. say yes. on the cutting room floor.

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I think the Oakland's really good. because it goes from that

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cliffhanger and it does that very moffety thing a bit doesn't

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resolve the cliffhanger within the 1st couple of minutes.

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Because you can't you can't resolve this cliffhanger. you know, the

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cliffhanger is the doctor's dead.

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You know, yeah, we don't get the resolution of the cliffhang until

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the very end of the episode.

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So we need to come in with something different.

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So what they do is the spell out how they're going to get out of

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it.

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Yes.

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And that's the clever bit.

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I want to take you back to when you did flatline.

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And Stephen B talked about the film, the prestige, the Christopher

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Nolan film, the prestige, um, for the benefit of anyone listening

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that didn't catch that episode or hasn't seen the film.

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It basically is a magic act in 3 parts and at the very start of

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the film.

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Michael Kane spells out what the magic act is.

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It's got 3 parts.

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It's got the 1st part, which is the pledge, which is where the

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magician says to you, this is the magic act I'm going to do.

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The 2nd part is then the turn where the magician does the magic

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act, does exactly what they said they're going to do, but then the

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3rd part is where the real magic happens, which is the prestige

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which is the unexpected, you know, what you didn't see coming.

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So, in the film, the example is a disappearing bird in a cage, the

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magician gets up, says, I'm going to make this burden, this cage

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disappear, that's the pledge.

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The turn is, the cage collapses, disappears.

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Everyone claps everyone applauds, but then the magician brings the

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bird back, makes the bird reappear.

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So that's kind of what struck me about this. that opening, you

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know, called open of Peter Capaldi explaining as the doctor

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explaining the bootstrap paradox.

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That's the pledge.

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So that's sort of Toby Witow saying, this is what I'm going to

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do.

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You know, I'm telling you this because this is how it's going to

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get resolved.

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We have then, you know, if we, again, have our wits about us.

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We'll be watching this episode, then waiting for this to play out

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thinking where is the bootstrap paradox going to be in this, and

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if we get to it at the end, if we get to the point where the

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doctor pops out and, you know, we totally predicted it or

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absolutely surprised, then that's fantastic.

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That's what it's done and then have the final scene where he kind

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of like really spells it out and brings us back to that that cold

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open with the um playing Beethoven's 5th on the guitar again that

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brings it into a nice loop.

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So that really struck me as, you know, this is Toby, which I was

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trying to do a magic trick on us.

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In fact, it turns out there's 2 different things going on here

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isn't there?

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And the one that is front and centre is how does the doctor get

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out of this, the doctor's dead.

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We see the consequences of his death at the end of the previous

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episode.

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When we go back in to this episode.

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We're somewhere where that's not known yet.

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And so the doctor doesn't know about any of that stuff and he has

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to be told by Clara that his ghost has arrived over the phone.

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And it's very clear that he has no plan.

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Don't you think?

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But he reacts as if he's about to die, even when he busts the

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shoulder of his coat and says, all right, well, I have to go and

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speak to the Fisher King now, he's reacting straightforwardly.

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He's not hiding anything from us.

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He hasn't got a solution yet.

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He's doing it on the hop business.

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It not a master plan.

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No, no.

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But then it turns out he has done some clever stuff, which we

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weren't properly privy to.

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And you remember he goes in and tells the Fisher King.

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Oh, no, I erased the thing and now it's never going to happen.

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You know, I erased all of the things.

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And that's not, in fact, what he does.

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That's not the trick.

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And the trick is that he moves the suspended animation thing.

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He blows up the dam using the other power cell and so on.

245
00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:42.899
So he's just getting the future to happen.

246
00:12:42.960 --> 00:12:47.100
And then it looks like at some point that we don't see before he

247
00:12:47.100 --> 00:12:52.320
gets into the, before he gets into the, oh.

248
00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:57.960
Actually, so before he gets into the sarcophagus thing, into the

249
00:12:57.960 --> 00:13:00.600
suspended animation thing, he does all the programming.

250
00:13:00.659 --> 00:13:05.220
So he programs the sonic sunglasses to connect to the base's Wi-Fi

251
00:13:05.220 --> 00:13:11.159
and create a Dr. Ghost hologram which behaves in certain way.

252
00:13:11.220 --> 00:13:14.220
And I wonder whether he's getting inklings of that idea when he

253
00:13:14.220 --> 00:13:18.779
tells Clara that he has to know exactly what it is that the ghost

254
00:13:18.779 --> 00:13:19.440
is doing.

255
00:13:19.500 --> 00:13:21.179
Yeah, maybe.

256
00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:26.159
When does he have time to do this unless he's doing it whilst he's

257
00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:27.240
talking to the Fisher King?

258
00:13:27.299 --> 00:13:33.600
Well, doesn't he just, but doesn't he just hop into the thing, do

259
00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:36.600
all his programming and then press the suspend animation button

260
00:13:36.600 --> 00:13:38.220
and then wake up?

261
00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:40.500
I just assumed that like...

262
00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:43.200
He's actually in the box where the Fisher King comes back.

263
00:13:43.259 --> 00:13:43.919
Why not?

264
00:13:43.980 --> 00:13:46.860
I mean, he's got half an hour, hasn't he?

265
00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:49.740
Because the tortoise hops back in time, so he's got kind of half

266
00:13:49.740 --> 00:13:50.159
an hour.

267
00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:54.120
The, the, do the sort of back to the future 2 thing of, you know

268
00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:58.259
going back and re-seeing the events, which they can't interfere

269
00:13:58.259 --> 00:14:00.600
with. and then... which they do on Father's Day as well.

270
00:14:00.659 --> 00:14:01.080
Yes.

271
00:14:01.139 --> 00:14:01.679
Yeah, yeah.

272
00:14:01.740 --> 00:14:07.200
Actually, did did O'Donnell hear Bennett the 1st time?

273
00:14:07.259 --> 00:14:07.980
Yes.

274
00:14:07.980 --> 00:14:08.940
Because there is a moment.

275
00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:10.019
I went back and had a look.

276
00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:12.059
There is a moment where she looks off to the side, but it is not

277
00:14:12.059 --> 00:14:13.080
highlighted at all with us.

278
00:14:13.139 --> 00:14:13.799
Right, right.

279
00:14:13.860 --> 00:14:16.019
Because that shot of her is so beautiful.

280
00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:21.179
I mean, she I think she's really great in this episode.

281
00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:22.799
Like I think she comes to life.

282
00:14:22.860 --> 00:14:25.500
She was pretty good in the 1st episode, but I think she really

283
00:14:25.500 --> 00:14:26.820
comes to life in this episode.

284
00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:29.460
And there's a beautiful shot of her from Bennett's point of view

285
00:14:29.460 --> 00:14:33.120
where like there's some, you know, behind her head and she looks

286
00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:37.019
stunning and stuff and that's what sort of inspires him to get up

287
00:14:37.019 --> 00:14:37.919
and save her.

288
00:14:37.980 --> 00:14:44.279
She's reading the business card of the Tiboolian and...

289
00:14:44.940 --> 00:14:50.399
She's, and it's, yeah, it's just, you know, this is, this person

290
00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:51.600
you know, living their best life.

291
00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:52.679
She is the fan of the doctor.

292
00:14:52.740 --> 00:14:55.440
She is now involved in one of the doctor's adventures.

293
00:14:55.500 --> 00:14:58.919
She's kind of, you know, got, you know, another 5 minutes left to

294
00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:01.500
live, unfortunately, but she is just living our best life at the

295
00:15:01.500 --> 00:15:03.120
moment and that's what Bennett says, isn't it?

296
00:15:03.299 --> 00:15:05.879
She's quite Ozgoody, isn't she?

297
00:15:05.940 --> 00:15:06.360
Yes.

298
00:15:06.419 --> 00:15:09.840
Yeah, with that fangurling thing, and she knows a lot more about

299
00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:10.559
the doctor.

300
00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:15.360
Like, she name checks Rose and Martha and Amy.

301
00:15:15.419 --> 00:15:16.320
Man.

302
00:15:16.379 --> 00:15:19.500
Yeah, and there's that, there's a kill the moon reference.

303
00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:21.960
What about the killer reference?

304
00:15:25.740 --> 00:15:29.639
It's also a tortured and Sarah Jane Adventures reference as well.

305
00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:35.100
The Arcatinians, the ones that liberate the Tavolians and then

306
00:15:35.100 --> 00:15:36.840
enslave them.

307
00:15:36.899 --> 00:15:42.419
Are the weird fishy aliens with the floating tendrils of hair from

308
00:15:42.419 --> 00:15:44.940
like Greeks bearing gifts and invasion of the bane.

309
00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:48.779
Well, he writes Greeks bearing gifts, doesn't he?

310
00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:51.000
Like, we'd have rights there.

311
00:15:51.059 --> 00:15:51.480
Yes, he does.

312
00:15:51.539 --> 00:15:52.860
Yeah, yeah.

313
00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:54.899
Yes, okay.

314
00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:56.340
So he's reusing them.

315
00:15:56.399 --> 00:15:59.100
He's reusing the Devolians, obviously, from the god complex.

316
00:15:59.159 --> 00:16:01.679
Actually, find the Tvolians quite annoying.

317
00:16:01.740 --> 00:16:05.039
Yeah, I mean, it's a way of getting a comedian in, isn't it?

318
00:16:05.100 --> 00:16:07.799
We get a comedian in, you know, like...

319
00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:09.000
Is David Wallace comedian?

320
00:16:09.059 --> 00:16:11.580
Well, I know David Williams, but I don't know this guy.

321
00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:12.240
Paul Kay?

322
00:16:12.299 --> 00:16:13.379
I don't actually know who he is.

323
00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:19.019
Suppork here made his name as a comedian in the UK in the sort of

324
00:16:19.019 --> 00:16:21.000
mid to the late 90s.

325
00:16:21.059 --> 00:16:25.200
He was a bit of an LEG type character, um, called Dennis Pennis

326
00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:30.000
who would, um, rolling with laughter.

327
00:16:30.059 --> 00:16:34.139
But the routine would basically be, as Dennis Pennessy would be

328
00:16:34.139 --> 00:16:37.500
the sort of like ginger American character with a microphone who

329
00:16:37.500 --> 00:16:41.340
would go up to, you know, celebrities on the red carpet, but, you

330
00:16:41.340 --> 00:16:44.820
know, film premiers and more and ask them, you know, pretty

331
00:16:44.820 --> 00:16:51.179
offensive, you know, questions for, for the sake of laughs, a

332
00:16:51.179 --> 00:16:53.519
classic example, as he went up to Steve Martin and said, so Steve

333
00:16:53.519 --> 00:16:54.899
Martin, why are you not funny anymore?

334
00:16:54.899 --> 00:16:58.559
when he was kind of, wow.

335
00:16:58.620 --> 00:17:00.659
Dangerous territory for media, yeah.

336
00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:05.640
Yeah, so it's kind of like shock jock humour for, you know, the

337
00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:06.779
sort of AliG age.

338
00:17:07.019 --> 00:17:10.680
Dennis didn't last very long, but that's really how we made his

339
00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:10.980
name.

340
00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:14.519
He then obviously moved on into acting more serious roles.

341
00:17:14.579 --> 00:17:18.059
Most recently, he's been seeing as Thorus of Mia in Game of

342
00:17:18.059 --> 00:17:18.480
Thrones.

343
00:17:19.140 --> 00:17:20.640
Oh, okay.

344
00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:24.180
The sort of red priest who keeps bringing Dondarien back to life.

345
00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:28.380
So he's had, he has bad more, more sort of serious acting ones, but

346
00:17:28.380 --> 00:17:31.680
he was primarily a comedian when he 1st started out.

347
00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:44.519
I have a couple of observations about this.

348
00:17:44.579 --> 00:17:46.619
I think tackling a bootstrap paradox.

349
00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:49.380
It's probably a good thing for Doctor Who to do, but as we've

350
00:17:49.380 --> 00:17:53.400
pointed out, it has been done previously as a joke by Moffat in

351
00:17:53.400 --> 00:17:56.880
kind of time crash and a little bit in series 6 as well.

352
00:17:56.940 --> 00:18:00.059
And so I'm not quite sure why it merited having a whole episode

353
00:18:00.059 --> 00:18:00.599
about it.

354
00:18:00.660 --> 00:18:03.660
I don't mind it, but it's actually not that interesting, I find.

355
00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:08.099
I mean, I think that's what I found the problem with this story a

356
00:18:08.099 --> 00:18:08.880
little bit last week.

357
00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:13.380
So last week the mystery was ghosts, and although that produced

358
00:18:13.380 --> 00:18:17.700
some scares and some atmosphere and some solid Doctor Who stuff, it

359
00:18:17.700 --> 00:18:19.200
wasn't groundbreaking.

360
00:18:19.259 --> 00:18:25.200
And then this week where it's the paradox thing, that seems sort

361
00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:27.000
of well worn ground as well.

362
00:18:27.059 --> 00:18:33.839
And so this kind of lacks the big idea that some of his other

363
00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:39.839
scripts have, like the God complex, or like a town called Mercy

364
00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:44.700
where there is a really strong central idea, I'm just not quite

365
00:18:44.700 --> 00:18:47.940
sure what that strong idea is here.

366
00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:53.460
And I think it is a lot of Doctor Who stuff done well, but it

367
00:18:53.460 --> 00:18:57.900
doesn't have the edge, I think, to say the Impossible Planet has.

368
00:18:58.619 --> 00:18:59.759
Yeah, I guess that's it.

369
00:18:59.819 --> 00:19:03.059
Although, the ice warriors, the ice warriors.

370
00:19:03.180 --> 00:19:04.680
That's great.

371
00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:05.220
Shut up.

372
00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:05.700
It is.

373
00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:06.180
It's great.

374
00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:07.500
It is.

375
00:19:07.619 --> 00:19:08.160
It is.

376
00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:08.759
Probably great.

377
00:19:08.940 --> 00:19:13.019
For me, I don't think the story was necessarily the bootstrop

378
00:19:13.019 --> 00:19:13.619
paradox.

379
00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:18.720
I think the paradox was just the way of tying ends up at the end.

380
00:19:19.259 --> 00:19:24.599
I always think back to the episode of The Simpsons, which is the

381
00:19:24.599 --> 00:19:28.680
Lord of the Flies parody, where the school bus crashes, the kids

382
00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:32.279
end up on an island, it all goes, Lord of the Flies are about to

383
00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:36.480
eat Milhouse or Martin Prince or someone, and Bart stops them, and

384
00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:39.420
then you have this pan back at the very end of the episode, pans

385
00:19:39.420 --> 00:19:41.940
back from this island, and James Hill, Jones voice comes in and

386
00:19:41.940 --> 00:19:44.460
says, well, the children all learned a valuable lesson here today

387
00:19:44.460 --> 00:19:46.019
and oh, I don't know.

388
00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:47.640
Let's just say that we're rescued by.

389
00:19:47.700 --> 00:19:49.259
Oh, I don't know, let's say Moe.

390
00:19:49.319 --> 00:19:50.940
It's just that.

391
00:19:50.940 --> 00:19:55.799
It's the idea that, you know, the final resolution isn't really

392
00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:58.859
quite as important as what's happened beforehand.

393
00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:02.279
So that, again, struck me as this is, you know, the bootstrap

394
00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:06.539
paradox bit is how it's solved at the end, you know, you go

395
00:20:06.539 --> 00:20:09.660
through this whole story thinking, well, are they ghosts, or

396
00:20:09.660 --> 00:20:12.359
they're not ghosts, and it's never really properly answered.

397
00:20:12.420 --> 00:20:16.680
It's just electromagnetic projections and technobabble and, you

398
00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:21.900
know, you never really get a good sense of, you know, how how is

399
00:20:21.900 --> 00:20:23.940
the Fisher King made ghosts, essentially.

400
00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:24.900
It's just...

401
00:20:24.900 --> 00:20:28.380
I think I said last week that the explanation had the word souls

402
00:20:28.380 --> 00:20:31.440
in it, and so it didn't really constitute an explanation.

403
00:20:31.500 --> 00:20:34.140
It was really just saying the same thing in different words.

404
00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:38.279
It's like he turned people's souls into electromagnetic kind of

405
00:20:38.279 --> 00:20:43.200
things that can pick up metal and like whatever.

406
00:20:43.259 --> 00:20:46.559
Like it was never really going to be very good, which is why it's

407
00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:51.779
not a great central mystery in episode one.

408
00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:54.960
And then here, it's not so much the bootstrap paradox as the

409
00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:58.319
doctor's reluctance to change time.

410
00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:02.579
And he doesn't want to do it and the Fisher King makes fun of him

411
00:21:02.579 --> 00:21:04.619
for still kind of obeying those rules.

412
00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:08.039
Clara tells him off and says just break the rules.

413
00:21:08.099 --> 00:21:08.880
It doesn't matter.

414
00:21:08.940 --> 00:21:14.579
And he even kind of does this feint to the fisher king where he

415
00:21:14.579 --> 00:21:20.460
says, yeah, I erased the inside of your hearse and now none of

416
00:21:20.460 --> 00:21:22.619
this is going to have happened.

417
00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:30.299
And I always have a problem with these things, which is the idea

418
00:21:30.299 --> 00:21:34.019
that there are moral rules that govern time travel seems like

419
00:21:34.019 --> 00:21:39.900
nonsense to me, that you can do a thing in the present day, but if

420
00:21:39.900 --> 00:21:44.579
you travel back in time a year and do the same thing that's

421
00:21:44.579 --> 00:21:45.660
wrong.

422
00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:46.619
And I don't get that.

423
00:21:46.680 --> 00:21:51.299
Like, I just, that doesn't land for me in any kind of real sense.

424
00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:54.720
And so, for instance, with Waters of Mars, which I think is a

425
00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:59.400
brilliant story, it's like, why does the doctor not just go, I

426
00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:01.259
don't care about the rules of time?

427
00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:05.700
I'm going to save these people because what I always do is ignore

428
00:22:05.700 --> 00:22:07.740
the rules in order to save people.

429
00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:10.140
And that's what we love about the doctor.

430
00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:12.960
That's what Bob Holmes kind of creates, I think.

431
00:22:13.019 --> 00:22:15.059
So that is the thing.

432
00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:17.700
I think that that's kind of the central, like when we're having

433
00:22:17.700 --> 00:22:21.119
conversations about stuff that's mostly what we're having

434
00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:24.059
conversations about in this episode.

435
00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:27.480
So I think that there is a kind of ingenious way of solving it, but

436
00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:31.799
it's, we just told it in a way, you know, we just told it.

437
00:22:31.859 --> 00:22:36.960
And suddenly the base has the ability to project holograms outside

438
00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:40.140
the windows for some reason, like whatever.

439
00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:43.019
Like it doesn't matter. you know, I guess.

440
00:22:43.079 --> 00:22:46.559
But we have whatever we need for that to sort of kind of work.

441
00:22:46.619 --> 00:22:50.220
But it's nowhere near as clever as, you know, river looking into

442
00:22:50.220 --> 00:22:54.240
the doctor's eye in the wedding of river song and seeing a tiny

443
00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:57.720
doctor wave back at her because he's solved the problem

444
00:22:57.720 --> 00:22:59.339
undetectably.

445
00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:02.519
So it doesn't look like time's been changed at all and

446
00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:03.299
everything's fine.

447
00:23:04.019 --> 00:23:07.380
It's less fun, I think, than that.

448
00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:09.000
Nathan, all true.

449
00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:12.180
And also to Fraser's points about the fact that bootstrap paradox

450
00:23:12.180 --> 00:23:13.859
is just a means to an end.

451
00:23:13.980 --> 00:23:17.400
I think that's the problem if you're introducing a bootstrap

452
00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:20.460
paradox, then you've got to commit to it, which is why we then

453
00:23:20.460 --> 00:23:22.799
have the scene at the beginning where you have to explain it and

454
00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:24.240
suddenly it becomes bigger than what it is.

455
00:23:24.299 --> 00:23:27.480
And so the episode becomes about the bootstrap paradox and that's

456
00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:28.079
not very interesting.

457
00:23:28.140 --> 00:23:31.079
So it's not what the episode's about.

458
00:23:31.140 --> 00:23:34.740
But it's kind of one unanswered question at the end of the episode

459
00:23:34.740 --> 00:23:37.019
and I like those.

460
00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:37.680
Yes.

461
00:23:37.740 --> 00:23:43.440
But it's not actually clearly shown to be a bootstrap paradox in

462
00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:46.019
the episode itself. that you don't see enough of it.

463
00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:49.259
So they have to lampshade at the beginning and the end to say, well

464
00:23:49.259 --> 00:23:50.099
this is how we solved it.

465
00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:51.539
And that's tell, don't show.

466
00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:55.500
I mean, you're not actually, it's like, oh, we did something

467
00:23:55.500 --> 00:23:56.220
clever.

468
00:23:56.279 --> 00:23:56.940
We didn't show you it.

469
00:23:57.000 --> 00:23:59.339
We just told you we did something clever at the end.

470
00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:03.299
Yeah, because he explains, no, I did all of that stuff because you

471
00:24:03.299 --> 00:24:04.920
told me that I had done it.

472
00:24:04.980 --> 00:24:07.380
And so why did I originally do it?

473
00:24:07.740 --> 00:24:10.200
Well there's none of that because we've got this causality loop

474
00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:11.579
thing happening.

475
00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:13.859
And so there's no 1st cause to any of this.

476
00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:17.940
It's no, I went back and bribed the architect first.

477
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:23.640
Yes, but like I said, we did it in time crash and it was for a

478
00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:24.720
throwaway gag.

479
00:24:24.779 --> 00:24:28.259
Maybe bootstrap paradoxes, I like other time, things they're only

480
00:24:28.259 --> 00:24:29.519
good for cheap tricks.

481
00:24:29.579 --> 00:24:32.700
Like the doctor says in Smith and Jones.

482
00:24:32.700 --> 00:24:34.740
Ambassadors of death.

483
00:24:47.339 --> 00:24:49.680
I want to talk about the Fisher King.

484
00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:53.880
El Sandafar, noted critic of Doctor Who calls it the bone

485
00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:54.539
vervoid.

486
00:24:54.599 --> 00:24:59.160
James is bursting to say something rude and unbroadcastable about

487
00:24:59.160 --> 00:24:59.400
it.

488
00:24:59.460 --> 00:25:01.140
I call it the fishwife king.

489
00:25:01.380 --> 00:25:05.759
So is the Fisher King the latest in the long tradition of Doctor

490
00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:08.519
Who Monsters that in some way resemble human genitalia?

491
00:25:08.579 --> 00:25:13.019
Yep, you're not getting that as a title this week, James, but I

492
00:25:13.019 --> 00:25:14.160
can't, because Fraser's here.

493
00:25:14.220 --> 00:25:16.140
Do you want me to see her that lane then you don't?

494
00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:19.920
Yeah, you can take the latest example of blah, blah, blah.

495
00:25:19.980 --> 00:25:20.640
Yeah, yeah.

496
00:25:20.700 --> 00:25:23.519
I mean, we'd love to see the Erato meets the Fisher King.

497
00:25:23.579 --> 00:25:25.319
Yo, no, I don't think we would.

498
00:25:25.619 --> 00:25:29.880
So, again, it's quite good when it's offscreen.

499
00:25:29.880 --> 00:25:34.500
And like hilariously, it gets 3 credits, right?

500
00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:40.619
So you know how we get voice of Alpha Centauri is Zan Churchman.

501
00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:42.539
Body of Alva Centauri is what?

502
00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:43.500
Stuart Fell.

503
00:25:43.559 --> 00:25:46.500
Here we get voice of the Fisher King.

504
00:25:46.559 --> 00:25:52.200
The Fisher King is played by a massively tall person, someone

505
00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:55.740
called Neil Fingleton, who is the tallest person ever recorded in

506
00:25:55.740 --> 00:26:01.259
Britain, and then the tallest person in Europe, and he died

507
00:26:01.259 --> 00:26:05.819
tragically, from being tall, he had a heart attack and died at the

508
00:26:05.819 --> 00:26:06.480
age of 37.

509
00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:12.000
And then the person who took over from him was in a cut scene in.

510
00:26:12.180 --> 00:26:13.259
Can you hear me?

511
00:26:13.259 --> 00:26:16.500
playing another Doctor Who monster, the guy who took over as

512
00:26:16.500 --> 00:26:17.700
tallest person in England.

513
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:21.119
So if you're the tallest person in England, we should mention this

514
00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:22.259
to Cy, possibly.

515
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:27.299
If you're the tallest person in England, you have a fair chance.

516
00:26:27.539 --> 00:26:29.819
I didn't mention it to Brendan because I thought...

517
00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:33.180
If you're the tallest person in England, you have a fair chance of

518
00:26:33.180 --> 00:26:36.720
becoming a Doctor Who monster.

519
00:26:36.779 --> 00:26:41.579
But the voice is Peter Serafinowitz, and then separately credited

520
00:26:41.579 --> 00:26:50.339
is the roar of the Fish King. who is Corey Taylor, who was for a

521
00:26:50.339 --> 00:26:52.740
while the lead singer of Slipknot.

522
00:26:52.980 --> 00:26:56.819
So he does the raw.

523
00:26:56.880 --> 00:27:00.599
It's sad that we were missing Fisher King movement by Rosalind.

524
00:27:00.660 --> 00:27:01.619
De Winter, yeah, yeah.

525
00:27:01.859 --> 00:27:09.539
So it's Peter Serafinoitz as the voice, and last week we had the

526
00:27:09.539 --> 00:27:15.599
incredible Colin McFarlane, who was the voice of the host in

527
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:20.160
Voyage of the Damned, and now doesn't get to do anything besides

528
00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:22.740
whisper those words over and over again in this episode.

529
00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:27.480
And you've got Peter Serafinowitz, who was, of course, Darth Mall

530
00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:34.200
in the 2 lines that Darth Mall gets in The Phantom Menace and is

531
00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:39.900
terribly funny and hilarious and just got, he's just got an

532
00:27:39.900 --> 00:27:40.559
incredible voice.

533
00:27:40.619 --> 00:27:41.880
He's fantastic.

534
00:27:41.940 --> 00:27:44.220
He's another comedian as well.

535
00:27:44.279 --> 00:27:48.660
Again, he started out his career as a comedian comedy writer

536
00:27:48.660 --> 00:27:52.980
before moving on to, you know, more CVC actor and roles.

537
00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:57.119
I know investors the tick from the Amazon series.

538
00:27:57.180 --> 00:28:01.079
Yes, of course. which is he's absolutely pitch perfect in.

539
00:28:01.380 --> 00:28:04.980
I mean, I would say the Fisher King is more funny, strange than

540
00:28:04.980 --> 00:28:05.339
funny.

541
00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:05.940
Ha ha.

542
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:08.400
He was also in that episode of black books, wasn't he?

543
00:28:08.460 --> 00:28:09.660
Yes, he was in black.

544
00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:11.880
Was it was it him in that episode of Black?

545
00:28:11.940 --> 00:28:12.720
Yes, yes.

546
00:28:12.839 --> 00:28:15.900
He's reading the shipping news in the episode of Black books.

547
00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:20.099
Is he the person responsible for that fake series of science

548
00:28:20.099 --> 00:28:23.819
videos called Look Around You, which occasionally people at my

549
00:28:23.819 --> 00:28:28.980
school put on in class and just wait and see how long it is before

550
00:28:28.980 --> 00:28:31.859
the children realise that this is absolutely ridiculous?

551
00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:34.200
And there's a film about water and stuff like that.

552
00:28:34.259 --> 00:28:35.519
It's absolutely hilarious.

553
00:28:35.579 --> 00:28:39.299
And of course, he's Brian Butterfield, who is famous for the Brian

554
00:28:39.299 --> 00:28:44.039
Butterfield diet, which I will lead to in the show notes, and you

555
00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:48.240
should all watch immediately because it's absolutely superb.

556
00:28:48.299 --> 00:28:51.180
Yes, you know they mean 2 seasons of look around you.

557
00:28:51.240 --> 00:28:52.500
Oh, yeah, okay.

558
00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:53.519
And it is him, isn't it?

559
00:28:53.579 --> 00:28:54.660
It is him, yes.

560
00:28:54.720 --> 00:28:55.019
Yes.

561
00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:55.980
It is him. yeah.

562
00:28:56.039 --> 00:28:56.339
No.

563
00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:58.619
It's like, yeah, he's one of the leads in it.

564
00:28:58.680 --> 00:28:59.940
It's really funny.

565
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:01.859
I mean it's properly brilliant, I think.

566
00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:05.579
I mean, talking about latest in the long line of the Fisher King

567
00:29:05.579 --> 00:29:08.039
is the latest in the long line of Doctor Who monsters who look

568
00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:10.980
fine when they're in the shadows, well, you take them out and put

569
00:29:10.980 --> 00:29:12.900
them on location and shoot them in wide shot.

570
00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:13.740
They just look ridiculous.

571
00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:19.079
Yeah, that that shot of him sort of stumbling out of the church is

572
00:29:19.079 --> 00:29:20.339
hoodwobbling.

573
00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:21.779
Yeah, is not great, is it?

574
00:29:21.839 --> 00:29:24.900
And he's a bit of a nothing monster, isn't he?

575
00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:27.480
Like, he's called a fisher king and you kind of expect it to have

576
00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:32.220
some kind of mythological King Arthur thing happening, but not

577
00:29:32.220 --> 00:29:34.140
really.

578
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:39.599
And so he gets off some zingers at the doctor, you know, and the

579
00:29:39.599 --> 00:29:40.619
time lords and stuff.

580
00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:43.440
But he's a little bit nothing, I think.

581
00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:46.619
He's a bit like Tim Shaw in that he sort of thinks he's a big

582
00:29:46.619 --> 00:29:49.920
villain, but he's small fry compared to all the doctor.

583
00:29:49.980 --> 00:29:50.759
Yeah, maybe that's it.

584
00:29:50.819 --> 00:29:51.599
Maybe that's it.

585
00:29:51.660 --> 00:29:55.019
I think the issue with the Pisha King really is one of the

586
00:29:55.019 --> 00:29:58.740
strengths of this story for me is the way that it does have the

587
00:29:58.740 --> 00:30:03.180
1st part which is set in one location and the 2nd part going back

588
00:30:03.180 --> 00:30:03.660
in time.

589
00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:06.000
I mean, that's the real interesting part of the story is when we

590
00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:10.319
go back in time to see what's led to these events that are

591
00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:13.140
happening, you know, saying the before the now, as it were.

592
00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:16.019
And that's a real strength, but also it's a bit of a weakness

593
00:30:16.019 --> 00:30:19.799
because it means that we don't actually get to be introduced to

594
00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:23.160
the Fisher King until about, you know, 3rd of the way through the

595
00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:26.819
2nd part, so most of the story's gone before we're even introduced

596
00:30:26.819 --> 00:30:30.420
to this character who is supposed to be a big bad, the big evil.

597
00:30:30.420 --> 00:30:34.019
And so he comes across as a bit of a nothing because there's no

598
00:30:34.019 --> 00:30:36.539
chance to give him any sort of backstory.

599
00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:40.740
All we get is from Prentice, you know, that the Fisher King

600
00:30:40.740 --> 00:30:43.500
enslaved our world, then someone else came and enslaved us, which

601
00:30:43.500 --> 00:30:45.900
were more thankful for and so on and so forth.

602
00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:49.079
So you don't get any sense of menace or danger from.

603
00:30:49.140 --> 00:30:53.579
Yes, he kills Puo O'Donnell, but that's the only, you know, on

604
00:30:53.579 --> 00:30:55.740
screen death, we say, you know, he kills 2 characters.

605
00:30:55.799 --> 00:30:59.400
There's nothing else there because we don't have the time to give

606
00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:00.180
them anything else there.

607
00:31:00.660 --> 00:31:05.519
In terms of stomping up to the ship, yeah, that is, you know, a

608
00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:09.480
weak shot, you know, it does remind me of what would happen if one

609
00:31:09.480 --> 00:31:12.299
of the vervoids became one of the dominators, then all that

610
00:31:12.299 --> 00:31:16.019
costume. watch the hell out of that.

611
00:31:17.940 --> 00:31:23.640
But at the same time, when it comes to his final end, the final

612
00:31:23.640 --> 00:31:26.339
shot of the Fisher King with him stood in front of the oncoming

613
00:31:26.339 --> 00:31:28.680
flood with his arms outstretched.

614
00:31:28.740 --> 00:31:30.960
It's pretty correct in that kind of fate with his role.

615
00:31:31.019 --> 00:31:34.680
I thought that was a brilliant shot. as a white show of this

616
00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:34.980
episode.

617
00:31:37.380 --> 00:31:40.259
That was a really effective shot for me.

618
00:31:40.380 --> 00:31:46.319
He sort of, I did want to go, whee. got pulled out of shot.

619
00:31:46.380 --> 00:31:48.119
But it was pretty great.

620
00:31:48.180 --> 00:31:51.000
And it is sort of epic like with the crashing waters and stuff.

621
00:31:51.059 --> 00:31:55.079
I still don't know where all the water comes from and why that

622
00:31:55.079 --> 00:32:00.059
lake is now so deep when that dam is so short.

623
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:03.059
The water's so deep that you have to build a base all the way

624
00:32:03.059 --> 00:32:06.660
under there. rather than just kind of like put boats there or

625
00:32:06.660 --> 00:32:07.259
something like that.

626
00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:10.200
I actually have to say that was one of my issues with this story

627
00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:12.420
and I don't get a defined sense of place.

628
00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:15.900
We know that the drum is in that lake, but I never get when they

629
00:32:15.900 --> 00:32:18.839
go back in time, the idea that that's the same place that the drum

630
00:32:18.839 --> 00:32:21.180
is there right there in future time.

631
00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:25.079
They do show you the kind of flooded village in one shot out the

632
00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:25.440
window.

633
00:32:25.500 --> 00:32:33.660
See, we generally, unanimously, I have to say, because Simon's not

634
00:32:33.660 --> 00:32:36.839
here, didn't think very much of the ganga's two-parter.

635
00:32:36.900 --> 00:32:38.759
That's putting it kindly.

636
00:32:38.819 --> 00:32:39.299
Well.

637
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:43.859
But I thought that the, that, that place, again, we had no real

638
00:32:43.859 --> 00:32:47.819
sense of where that place was or why or why they were mining for

639
00:32:47.819 --> 00:32:48.960
acid or any of that.

640
00:32:49.019 --> 00:32:53.220
But there was a kind of a weirdness about that place that didn't

641
00:32:53.220 --> 00:32:55.380
make it a standard base under siege.

642
00:32:55.440 --> 00:32:58.500
And then the decision to shoot it in sort of various castles and

643
00:32:58.500 --> 00:32:59.940
stone buildings and stuff like that.

644
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:05.279
Like it was a murky looking episode and stuff, but it did lend an

645
00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:06.059
edge to it.

646
00:33:06.119 --> 00:33:08.220
Here, here.

647
00:33:08.279 --> 00:33:11.339
I think the corridors, as you said at the beginning, phraser, like

648
00:33:11.339 --> 00:33:14.039
that base, I think, looks properly good.

649
00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:19.140
And I said last week that, you know, money and technology and

650
00:33:19.140 --> 00:33:24.839
stuff has come on and it looks better in lots of ways than even

651
00:33:24.839 --> 00:33:28.380
than the base on the Impossible Planet.

652
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:32.339
But it doesn't, like, it just doesn't make any sense.

653
00:33:32.460 --> 00:33:40.259
Like they're drilling for oil in 2119 for a start and I do like

654
00:33:40.259 --> 00:33:46.019
the doctor's reaction to learning that Richard Pritchard was an

655
00:33:46.019 --> 00:33:49.500
oil company guy, like he just sort of tosses the oil thing away.

656
00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:50.279
Oil, okay.

657
00:33:50.339 --> 00:33:52.920
And, you know, throws his business card away.

658
00:33:53.940 --> 00:33:55.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

659
00:33:56.039 --> 00:34:01.140
But like, why are they building a underwater base in a fairly

660
00:34:01.140 --> 00:34:03.480
shallow lake somewhere in Scotland?

661
00:34:03.539 --> 00:34:05.759
Like I just, who knows?

662
00:34:05.819 --> 00:34:06.119
whatever.

663
00:34:06.180 --> 00:34:09.840
What's what's the, the version of Space Reasons then?

664
00:34:09.900 --> 00:34:11.039
Scottish reason?

665
00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:11.880
Scottish reason?

666
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:25.619
We said last week that, well, I said last week, people disagreed

667
00:34:25.619 --> 00:34:27.840
with me that I didn't think the direction was very strong on this

668
00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:30.780
episode, and I think that's the same this week.

669
00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:32.519
I think it's let down in a number of ways.

670
00:34:32.579 --> 00:34:35.579
And I think that it would have been more interesting to have had

671
00:34:35.579 --> 00:34:39.420
that town, that military town and all of its bits, like they go

672
00:34:39.420 --> 00:34:42.840
into an office at one and there's like a dummy behind a desk and

673
00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:43.679
posters up.

674
00:34:43.739 --> 00:34:46.199
The camera doesn't dwell on them in any way, whereas actually you

675
00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:48.780
would have been placed more in the environment if it had been set

676
00:34:48.780 --> 00:34:51.480
up properly on screen, whereas it's just there in long shot in the

677
00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:51.840
background.

678
00:34:51.900 --> 00:34:54.059
And that's why it feels a little bit murky.

679
00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:54.840
The whole thing does.

680
00:34:54.900 --> 00:34:58.199
Part of the problem too is that that sort of comes out of

681
00:34:58.199 --> 00:34:58.800
nowhere.

682
00:34:58.860 --> 00:35:02.579
So it's a town in Scotland that was made up to look like a Russian

683
00:35:02.579 --> 00:35:03.179
town.

684
00:35:03.239 --> 00:35:08.519
We do know that that's the sort of thing that did happen during

685
00:35:08.519 --> 00:35:09.420
the Cold War.

686
00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:13.380
Maybe 1980s too late for it, but that does seem to be the sort of

687
00:35:13.380 --> 00:35:14.940
thing that was going on.

688
00:35:15.059 --> 00:35:19.320
And it is shot at Ministry of Defence facility.

689
00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:21.480
Do you remember the town of Christmas?

690
00:35:21.539 --> 00:35:23.099
Wasn't the town of Christmas shot?

691
00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:24.239
in a location.

692
00:35:24.300 --> 00:35:25.380
What's it called?

693
00:35:25.380 --> 00:35:26.340
Phubia town.

694
00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:27.119
What's?

695
00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:30.420
Phibia, fighting in built up areas.

696
00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:31.260
Right, okay.

697
00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:31.559
Yeah.

698
00:35:31.619 --> 00:35:34.500
So it was a training thing, the town of Christmas on the planet of

699
00:35:34.500 --> 00:35:34.980
Christmas.

700
00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:37.320
Fubar is far beyond all repair.

701
00:35:37.380 --> 00:35:39.719
It was fine, but the doctor was not.

702
00:35:39.780 --> 00:35:44.039
I think the location, you're all right, doc, it isn't used most

703
00:35:44.039 --> 00:35:45.059
effectively.

704
00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:47.880
You kind of think, well, why does it need to be a Scottish

705
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:48.239
village?

706
00:35:48.300 --> 00:35:50.579
Why does it need to be a Scottish village pretend to be a Soviet

707
00:35:50.579 --> 00:35:50.880
village?

708
00:35:50.940 --> 00:35:53.219
Why can't it just be a Soviet village or why can't it be?

709
00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:54.360
Any of the others?

710
00:35:54.420 --> 00:35:56.219
I don't think it necessarily takes anything away.

711
00:35:56.280 --> 00:35:58.679
But it doesn't necessarily add anything either.

712
00:35:58.739 --> 00:36:00.719
It's just kind of there.

713
00:36:00.780 --> 00:36:02.219
It feels like it should be an interesting setting.

714
00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:03.480
Yeah, it's not quite.

715
00:36:03.539 --> 00:36:04.320
It could be.

716
00:36:04.380 --> 00:36:05.159
That the thing, isn't it?

717
00:36:05.219 --> 00:36:07.500
I think there is, you know, a lot of elements of this that could

718
00:36:07.500 --> 00:36:11.280
be a little bit more interesting if maybe's, you know, we had a

719
00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:14.400
little bit more time or if it wasn't quite, you know, spread

720
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:16.920
across 2 episodes in the way that it was, again, you know, kind of

721
00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:19.559
strengths and weaknesses about them and that, you know, we could

722
00:36:19.559 --> 00:36:23.940
have had a whole episode just set in this village and, you know

723
00:36:23.940 --> 00:36:26.159
rather than having to cut backwards and forwards between the base

724
00:36:26.159 --> 00:36:27.719
and earn another story.

725
00:36:27.780 --> 00:36:31.199
Even it been like properly before the flood, in a sense that

726
00:36:31.199 --> 00:36:35.519
there's something else going on where it's not already abandoned.

727
00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:39.480
Yeah, like it's abandoned before it gets flooded.

728
00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:41.400
Maybe, who knows?

729
00:36:41.460 --> 00:36:46.199
I mean, it's clearly not a Russian village because not all of the

730
00:36:46.199 --> 00:36:51.719
people on the base in 2119. you know, all of the people in the

731
00:36:51.719 --> 00:36:54.000
base in 2119 are British.

732
00:36:54.059 --> 00:36:59.940
And so, you know, we're not going to do Cold War again.

733
00:37:00.179 --> 00:37:03.840
So, so I guess it has to be in Scotland.

734
00:37:03.900 --> 00:37:07.619
It looks, I mean, you know, like the location is a good location

735
00:37:07.619 --> 00:37:10.139
but I think maybe you're right.

736
00:37:10.199 --> 00:37:11.639
Maybe the director lets it down.

737
00:37:11.699 --> 00:37:16.199
You kind of think that he had Saul Metstein, the previous episode

738
00:37:16.199 --> 00:37:19.320
and then Nick Haran, the episode before that.

739
00:37:19.380 --> 00:37:24.420
He has been very lucky to get some incredible directors and some

740
00:37:24.420 --> 00:37:29.340
great actors, you know, cast in his previous scripts, and here

741
00:37:29.340 --> 00:37:33.179
he's been a little bit less lucky, and so the whole thing looks a

742
00:37:33.179 --> 00:37:34.800
bit too nondescript, I think.

743
00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:37.800
I think also the whole of this series so far has been given a very

744
00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:38.579
heavy grade.

745
00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:40.619
And so it all looks quite dingy.

746
00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:41.340
Oh, yeah.

747
00:37:41.400 --> 00:37:43.260
Magician's Apprentice did.

748
00:37:43.320 --> 00:37:47.280
The bass does and also on the location in the town does.

749
00:37:47.340 --> 00:37:49.980
But it wouldn't have taken a whole lot to just dwell on the

750
00:37:49.980 --> 00:37:50.280
details.

751
00:37:50.340 --> 00:37:52.500
Do you remember the curse of Fenwick when you go into Commander

752
00:37:52.500 --> 00:37:55.860
Millington's office and it's made up as a Nazi office?

753
00:37:55.980 --> 00:37:57.179
Is it Hitler's office?

754
00:37:57.239 --> 00:37:57.780
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

755
00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:00.599
And that's just an interesting detail, but it adds a lot to the

756
00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:03.480
storytelling, whereas here we don't even get that level of going

757
00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:03.960
into it.

758
00:38:04.019 --> 00:38:05.519
I don't mind it though.

759
00:38:05.579 --> 00:38:07.019
I don't mind this episode.

760
00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:09.119
It's just a bit nondescript.

761
00:38:09.179 --> 00:38:11.519
Yeah, I mean, I enjoyed this episode.

762
00:38:11.579 --> 00:38:13.260
I think it's one of the stronger ones.

763
00:38:13.260 --> 00:38:16.920
In terms of the direction, I think you are, right, that it's

764
00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:18.539
there's nothing sings about the direction.

765
00:38:18.659 --> 00:38:21.059
I don't think there's anything necessarily poor about it.

766
00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:26.519
It's just, It is just a directed episode of Doctor Who.

767
00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:29.519
I think, you know, Daniel O'Hara, the director doesn't come back.

768
00:38:29.579 --> 00:38:32.820
There's nothing in this to suggest why you would actually want

769
00:38:32.820 --> 00:38:33.480
them to come back.

770
00:38:33.539 --> 00:38:35.460
Yeah, you don't want that on rotten tomatoes, do you?

771
00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:37.139
A directed episode of Doctor Who.

772
00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:42.599
I think we've touched on this already in the episode.

773
00:38:42.659 --> 00:38:45.119
Like, it doesn't do anything poorly.

774
00:38:45.179 --> 00:38:45.780
No.

775
00:38:45.780 --> 00:38:47.880
But, you know, it doesn't, it's not terrible.

776
00:38:47.940 --> 00:38:50.219
It's, it's, it's, it's workmanlike.

777
00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:55.199
It's a, it does a lot of Doctor Who type things well.

778
00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:57.420
But it doesn't stand out.

779
00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:03.840
So I have to make a confession that this is as far as I've got in

780
00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:10.139
my rewatching of series 9 and I am, I think, probably not going to

781
00:39:10.139 --> 00:39:13.980
get very far ahead of where we go.

782
00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:18.840
So I'm not in a position to say where this sort of sits in

783
00:39:18.840 --> 00:39:21.840
relation to the season as a whole.

784
00:39:21.900 --> 00:39:25.260
And I also am not really in a position to say what I think about

785
00:39:25.260 --> 00:39:26.340
the season as the whole.

786
00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:30.059
As I said, I haven't really gone back to this very much and it's

787
00:39:30.059 --> 00:39:33.719
the season of Doctor Who that I know least well, I think.

788
00:39:33.780 --> 00:39:38.219
That's okay, Nathan. that why we do retrospective Then I can bring

789
00:39:38.219 --> 00:39:40.079
out my polished opinions.

790
00:39:40.139 --> 00:39:46.079
But Todd, I think it's worth saying that Todd really rates this

791
00:39:46.079 --> 00:39:50.219
and I can see why as well, because it is Doctor Who things that

792
00:39:50.219 --> 00:39:52.679
are very well done.

793
00:39:52.739 --> 00:39:56.579
And because he loves Peter Capoldi and he's right to do so.

794
00:39:56.639 --> 00:40:01.860
I think he enjoys Peter Capoldi doing these Doctor Who things.

795
00:40:01.980 --> 00:40:05.460
And that is a proper pleasure that the episode affords.

796
00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:08.159
And I can completely see why people do like this.

797
00:40:08.219 --> 00:40:09.539
I absolutely see that.

798
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:13.679
I say it's working online, but I thoroughly enjoyed it mainly for

799
00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:15.480
those, for the same reasons as Todd.

800
00:40:15.539 --> 00:40:18.179
Like, it's Doctor Who done well with a good doctor.

801
00:40:18.239 --> 00:40:23.280
Like one, probably one of the better actors to ever, ever played

802
00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:23.820
this character.

803
00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:25.980
Yeah, same reason I like Time Lash.

804
00:40:26.039 --> 00:40:27.000
And he just gets it.

805
00:40:27.059 --> 00:40:28.320
He just gets Doctor Who.

806
00:40:28.380 --> 00:40:29.400
Exactly.

807
00:40:29.460 --> 00:40:31.199
No, that's exactly it.

808
00:40:31.260 --> 00:40:34.139
You know, it hits so many beats, doesn't it?

809
00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:36.960
You know, I've got a few continuity references in.

810
00:40:37.019 --> 00:40:40.139
You've got, you know, Peter Capaldi enjoying himself being the

811
00:40:40.139 --> 00:40:42.780
doctor and the doctor enjoying doing Doctor Who things.

812
00:40:42.840 --> 00:40:45.239
In terms of the series as a whole.

813
00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:50.039
I think, you know, one of the problems with the season why

814
00:40:50.039 --> 00:40:54.300
potentially people don't go back to revisit it is because it is a

815
00:40:54.300 --> 00:40:55.380
series of 2 partners.

816
00:40:55.440 --> 00:40:59.219
So, you know, if you want to watch and enjoy this episode

817
00:40:59.219 --> 00:41:01.679
technically you have to watch the one beforehand and if you watch

818
00:41:01.679 --> 00:41:04.920
the one beforehand, then you feel, well, I've got to come back and

819
00:41:04.920 --> 00:41:05.760
watch this one as well.

820
00:41:05.820 --> 00:41:09.480
So, you know, in terms of dipping in and out as a rewatch, that

821
00:41:09.480 --> 00:41:12.539
kind of hampers it, you know, if I sit and I've go, well, you know

822
00:41:12.539 --> 00:41:13.380
I'm not ready for bed yet.

823
00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:16.139
I'm going to put an episode of Doctor Who on, I wouldn't

824
00:41:16.139 --> 00:41:19.260
necessarily come to this series, and that's one of the reasons

825
00:41:19.260 --> 00:41:19.559
why.

826
00:41:19.619 --> 00:41:23.699
Where it sits in the series is interesting because it's very arc

827
00:41:23.699 --> 00:41:24.539
light.

828
00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:24.780
Yeah.

829
00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:29.340
The arc for the series being for better or worse, the hybrid, and

830
00:41:29.340 --> 00:41:31.260
there's no mention of the hybrid throughout.

831
00:41:31.320 --> 00:41:36.480
So that makes it a bit more accessible as is just a, as I want to

832
00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:39.300
enjoy by itself, and it does feel very much like a standalone

833
00:41:39.300 --> 00:41:40.500
episode.

834
00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:43.980
There is the theme, one of the themes of the series rather than an

835
00:41:43.980 --> 00:41:46.619
Arca theme is Clara becoming the doctor.

836
00:41:47.159 --> 00:41:52.800
And that is very evident in the 1st part under the lake where the

837
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:55.380
doctor even, you know, points it out and says there's only room

838
00:41:55.380 --> 00:41:56.820
for one of me in this tortoise.

839
00:41:56.880 --> 00:41:58.079
And it's...

840
00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:00.000
It's kind of shoehorned in at the beginning of the episode.

841
00:42:00.059 --> 00:42:01.619
There's only one me.

842
00:42:01.679 --> 00:42:03.300
Yes. definitely.

843
00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:08.579
And in this episode, it's very obvious when Clara sends Lun out to

844
00:42:08.579 --> 00:42:12.119
get the phone, which allegedly they need, they don't actually need

845
00:42:12.119 --> 00:42:12.840
the phone anymore.

846
00:42:12.900 --> 00:42:15.659
I think everything's been done at that point, but, you know, she

847
00:42:15.659 --> 00:42:18.300
we need this phone and we must contact the doctor, so you must go

848
00:42:18.300 --> 00:42:18.840
out and get it.

849
00:42:18.900 --> 00:42:22.320
And there's no argument and she literally says, you know, the

850
00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:24.360
doctors taught me how to make these decisions.

851
00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:28.800
We're seeing that very, very clearly the theme of this series

852
00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:32.699
Chloe becoming the doctor and taking risks with hers own and other

853
00:42:32.699 --> 00:42:33.659
people's lives.

854
00:42:33.719 --> 00:42:36.360
It's a very flatline moment, isn't it?

855
00:42:36.420 --> 00:42:37.500
That moment.

856
00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:43.079
And just another mention of how pretty Lun is, because I just

857
00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:47.280
rewatched this episode just before recording and he is very

858
00:42:47.280 --> 00:42:47.579
sweet.

859
00:42:47.639 --> 00:42:49.679
I like his curly hair.

860
00:42:49.739 --> 00:42:52.079
Yeah, those eyebrows are pretty amazing as well.

861
00:42:52.619 --> 00:42:57.119
So it's actually funny, the Clara moment here, isn't it?

862
00:42:57.179 --> 00:43:00.420
Because it isn't just the Clara sending Lund to go and get the

863
00:43:00.420 --> 00:43:01.980
phone, which is great.

864
00:43:02.039 --> 00:43:03.239
It's played really well.

865
00:43:03.300 --> 00:43:06.960
Like, um, Cass's reaction, all of that stuff is really, really

866
00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:07.559
terrific.

867
00:43:07.619 --> 00:43:12.059
I think it's a proper solid B plot thing for them to be doing.

868
00:43:12.119 --> 00:43:13.320
And I think it works really well.

869
00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:19.079
You know, there's that thing where she starts to appear dependent

870
00:43:19.079 --> 00:43:19.920
on the doctor.

871
00:43:19.980 --> 00:43:23.579
And there was that thing in episode one, wasn't it, where he says

872
00:43:23.579 --> 00:43:26.039
you need a hobby or you need a relationship?

873
00:43:26.099 --> 00:43:27.840
It can't just be me.

874
00:43:27.900 --> 00:43:31.500
And then when she's faced with the prospect of the doctor dying.

875
00:43:31.619 --> 00:43:35.460
She says, you can't make yourself essential to me or something

876
00:43:35.460 --> 00:43:37.860
like that and then die.

877
00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:43.260
And so it's not just, it's not just that she's becoming the doctor

878
00:43:43.260 --> 00:43:45.480
but that they're becoming weirdly codependent.

879
00:43:45.539 --> 00:43:51.840
Remember that the doctor admits to Bennett, that the thing that's

880
00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:54.480
making him change time is to save Clara.

881
00:43:54.539 --> 00:43:57.239
He's not going to do that to save O'Donnell.

882
00:43:57.300 --> 00:43:58.980
He's not going to do it to save himself.

883
00:43:59.039 --> 00:44:00.539
He's doing it to save Clara.

884
00:44:00.599 --> 00:44:06.239
And I think that that theme is inextricable from the arc, I think

885
00:44:06.239 --> 00:44:10.380
because I can't remember where we land with the hybrid, but

886
00:44:10.380 --> 00:44:14.280
there's every chance the hybrid is the doctor and Clara, isn't

887
00:44:14.280 --> 00:44:14.460
it?

888
00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:15.360
I don't know.

889
00:44:15.420 --> 00:44:16.260
I can't even remember.

890
00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:20.880
Don't think anyone ever knows who the hybrid is, to be honest.

891
00:44:38.940 --> 00:44:43.079
All right, it is part two of a two part story, and so

892
00:44:43.079 --> 00:44:48.059
traditionally, we have the peaks of the week.

893
00:44:48.119 --> 00:44:48.480
James.

894
00:44:48.659 --> 00:44:54.179
So if you like time travel and paradoxes, I don't think you can go

895
00:44:54.179 --> 00:44:56.940
past Dirk Gently Celestic Detective Agency.

896
00:44:57.000 --> 00:45:00.960
Which one Well, the original...

897
00:45:01.019 --> 00:45:02.159
Yeah, the book, the book.

898
00:45:02.219 --> 00:45:02.519
Sorry.

899
00:45:02.579 --> 00:45:07.679
Yes, the book, not one of the many loose reinterpretations.

900
00:45:07.739 --> 00:45:08.940
So the radio play is good.

901
00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:09.960
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

902
00:45:10.019 --> 00:45:10.260
Yeah.

903
00:45:10.320 --> 00:45:11.760
Like, I think that's done very well.

904
00:45:11.820 --> 00:45:17.219
It's Dirk Mags. you know, the same production team behind the

905
00:45:17.219 --> 00:45:19.500
later hitchhikers radio plays.

906
00:45:19.559 --> 00:45:24.420
Yes, no, Duck Gently is one of my favourite Adam's books.

907
00:45:24.539 --> 00:45:27.420
It's really good. and it's good.

908
00:45:27.420 --> 00:45:28.619
Part shutter.

909
00:45:28.679 --> 00:45:30.000
Yeah, part city of there.

910
00:45:30.059 --> 00:45:30.659
City of yeah.

911
00:45:30.659 --> 00:45:30.900
Yeah.

912
00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:32.039
Ball Douglas Adams.

913
00:45:32.099 --> 00:45:34.440
It's really great Yes, great stuff.

914
00:45:34.559 --> 00:45:36.119
100% Douglas Adams.

915
00:45:36.179 --> 00:45:38.280
What about you, Peter?

916
00:45:38.340 --> 00:45:42.780
Well, for my part, if you like hard hitting sci-fi and bootstrap

917
00:45:42.780 --> 00:45:46.139
paradoxes, you can't go past the sex and the city sequel and just

918
00:45:46.139 --> 00:45:54.420
like that, which is... which I actually really enjoy, but is an

919
00:45:54.420 --> 00:45:58.380
instructive lesson for how to make every dramatic decision in a

920
00:45:58.380 --> 00:45:59.460
series incorrectly.

921
00:45:59.519 --> 00:46:01.139
Go and watch it.

922
00:46:02.639 --> 00:46:04.920
I have and you're right.

923
00:46:04.980 --> 00:46:06.239
Are there robots in it?

924
00:46:06.300 --> 00:46:10.679
I mean, sometimes I think Charlotte, but, you know, remains to be

925
00:46:10.679 --> 00:46:11.039
seen.

926
00:46:11.880 --> 00:46:16.199
So my pick of the week is a podcast.

927
00:46:16.260 --> 00:46:21.480
It's called Strong Songs, and in it, a musician called Kirk

928
00:46:21.480 --> 00:46:28.079
Hamilton looks at a sort of famous song or an important song and

929
00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:31.800
does a musical analysis of it, talks about its history, talks

930
00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:35.639
about what is it that makes it great as far as music and

931
00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:39.179
performance and instrumentation and things are concerned.

932
00:46:39.420 --> 00:46:44.579
Today, I listen to an episode on killing me softly.

933
00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:51.599
And he looked at 3 versions of that, um, including the one from

934
00:46:51.599 --> 00:46:56.519
sort of the 1990s by the Fugees, um, but a few different

935
00:46:56.519 --> 00:46:57.059
versions.

936
00:46:57.119 --> 00:47:01.559
There's a wonderful one where he looks at the 2 Dolly Parton

937
00:47:01.559 --> 00:47:04.559
versions of I Will Always Love You, followed by the Whitney

938
00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:06.480
Houston version, which is incredible.

939
00:47:06.539 --> 00:47:08.820
If you're a genre fan.

940
00:47:08.880 --> 00:47:14.340
He does an episode on the music of Andor, which is an

941
00:47:14.340 --> 00:47:18.900
extraordinary TV series where music plays an important role in the

942
00:47:18.900 --> 00:47:23.460
actual narrative and his analysis of its music is incredible.

943
00:47:23.519 --> 00:47:27.239
And before the release of Tears of the Kingdom, he did a whole

944
00:47:27.239 --> 00:47:29.699
thing on the music of Zelda, which was great as well.

945
00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:31.500
So it's called Strong Songs.

946
00:47:31.559 --> 00:47:32.280
It's a podcast.

947
00:47:32.340 --> 00:47:35.460
He is so enthusiastic and so in love with his subject.

948
00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:38.039
It's such a beautifully produced podcast.

949
00:47:38.099 --> 00:47:40.079
I can't recommend it highly enough.

950
00:47:40.139 --> 00:47:41.219
It's really something.

951
00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:44.039
Well, he's hoping it does an episode on variations on a theme.

952
00:47:47.099 --> 00:47:47.699
Fraser.

953
00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:48.960
What's your pick the week?

954
00:47:49.019 --> 00:47:53.880
Well, if it's musicals you're after, then my pick of the week is

955
00:47:53.880 --> 00:47:56.460
the Star Trek series, Strange New Worlds.

956
00:47:57.480 --> 00:48:01.679
I just sat the other day and discovered I've actually got a

957
00:48:01.679 --> 00:48:03.059
Paramount Plus subscription.

958
00:48:03.119 --> 00:48:06.360
I don't know how long I've had it for, or where it's come from, or

959
00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:07.320
who's actually paying for it?

960
00:48:07.380 --> 00:48:10.559
Me and my wife, but it turned up there on Prime, so I've been

961
00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:14.940
bingeing strange new worlds for the last week or so, and I'm

962
00:48:14.940 --> 00:48:16.500
absolutely thoroughly enjoying that.

963
00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:18.420
I'm about halfway through series 2 now.

964
00:48:18.480 --> 00:48:20.940
I know the musical episode is coming up, but I'm not quite there

965
00:48:20.940 --> 00:48:21.239
yet.

966
00:48:21.300 --> 00:48:25.440
Um, but it's, you know, you talk about like, hitting Doctor Who

967
00:48:25.440 --> 00:48:28.079
beats, but this is, this is all the Star Trek beats.

968
00:48:28.139 --> 00:48:30.119
This is everything you want from a Star Trek.

969
00:48:30.179 --> 00:48:33.059
It's, you know, going out and exploring.

970
00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:36.119
It's, you know, it's got all those episodes you want.

971
00:48:36.179 --> 00:48:38.519
They've got the space valuers, they've got the travelling back in

972
00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:38.760
time.

973
00:48:38.820 --> 00:48:43.500
They've got the wishes come true and fantasy comes alive on the

974
00:48:43.500 --> 00:48:43.860
ships.

975
00:48:43.920 --> 00:48:45.059
You've got everything you want in there.

976
00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:48.179
You've got tons of law thrown in the back, not that one, but

977
00:48:48.179 --> 00:48:50.340
like...

978
00:48:50.400 --> 00:48:55.380
You know, you've got, you know, everything that you know is going

979
00:48:55.380 --> 00:48:57.360
to come up into Star Trek, which is coming up.

980
00:48:57.420 --> 00:49:00.900
But more than that, it's actually a really well put together. show

981
00:49:00.900 --> 00:49:05.820
the story talent can be a little bit breakneck at times, you kind

982
00:49:05.820 --> 00:49:08.639
of like, oh, straighten up story and was telling it and we're not

983
00:49:08.639 --> 00:49:11.519
actually going to pause, but there is still sort of like loads of

984
00:49:11.519 --> 00:49:15.300
character work and loads of stuff the characters are or I'm

985
00:49:15.300 --> 00:49:19.199
starting to come to really enjoy some of the characters, the new

986
00:49:19.199 --> 00:49:19.920
characters as well.

987
00:49:19.980 --> 00:49:21.059
So that's my recommendation.

988
00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:23.940
If you haven't done it already, if you start rec fun. out and

989
00:49:23.940 --> 00:49:25.619
explore strange new worlds.

990
00:49:25.679 --> 00:49:29.159
How I wish we'd gotten a musical from Star Trek Voyager.

991
00:49:30.239 --> 00:49:32.340
The 3 Roberts.

992
00:49:32.400 --> 00:49:37.139
Yeah, the 3 Roberts, a close harmony group of the best Robert, the

993
00:49:37.139 --> 00:49:38.699
medium Robert, and the worst Robert.

994
00:49:38.760 --> 00:49:39.960
It would be really something.

995
00:49:40.019 --> 00:49:41.159
Neelix's solo.

996
00:50:08.219 --> 00:50:11.159
Well, Melissa, that's all the time we have for this week.

997
00:50:11.219 --> 00:50:15.300
We'll be back next week for some comedy Viking hygienes in The

998
00:50:15.300 --> 00:50:16.199
Girl Who Died.

999
00:50:16.679 --> 00:50:20.519
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1000
00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:24.000
and you can keep up with us on our website, FlightthroughEntirety

1001
00:50:22.500 --> 00:50:27.059
com, where you'll find all our social media links, as well as

1002
00:50:27.059 --> 00:50:31.679
links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody InterTera, Maximum

1003
00:50:31.679 --> 00:50:34.199
Power, and Untitled Star Trek project.

1004
00:50:34.260 --> 00:50:39.059
Until next time, remember that Saturday is treat day.

1005
00:50:39.119 --> 00:50:41.699
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1006
00:50:41.760 --> 00:50:42.719
Good night.

1007
00:50:42.780 --> 00:50:43.559
Good night.

1008
00:50:43.619 --> 00:50:44.400
Good night.

1009
00:50:50.460 --> 00:50:53.280
That was this flight through entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley

1010
00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:55.380
Fraser, Gregory, Peter Griffiths, and James Selwood.

1011
00:50:55.440 --> 00:50:57.599
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1012
00:50:57.659 --> 00:51:01.260
This episode, Scottish Reasons, was recorded on the 13th of August

1013
00:51:01.260 --> 00:51:03.960
2023 and released on the 8th of October.

1014
00:51:04.860 --> 00:51:09.599
The lake in this story might seem unrealistically deep, but the

1015
00:51:09.599 --> 00:51:10.920
next time you watch Battlefield.

1016
00:51:10.980 --> 00:51:14.099
Remember that Dos Marie pool in Cornwall, where the lady of the

1017
00:51:14.099 --> 00:51:16.980
lake came from, is three metres deep at most.

1018
00:51:17.039 --> 00:51:20.280
Team, educational and entertaining.

1019
00:51:26.340 --> 00:51:27.780
That's brilliant.

1020
00:51:27.840 --> 00:51:28.380
Do you know what?

1021
00:51:28.440 --> 00:51:30.539
That was my bigger than work.

1022
00:51:30.539 --> 00:51:38.820
The, um, the, um, uh, uh, the which is familiar because I think

1023
00:51:38.820 --> 00:51:39.480
it's incredible.

1024
00:51:39.539 --> 00:51:43.739
I think we should remind everyone every 2 weeks on Flattery Tiny

1025
00:51:43.739 --> 00:51:46.440
that they should be watching straight 2 worlds because they think

1026
00:51:46.440 --> 00:51:47.159
it's incredible.

1027
00:51:47.219 --> 00:51:48.360
It's so good.

1028
00:51:48.420 --> 00:51:49.199
I love it so much.

1029
00:51:49.260 --> 00:51:53.039
Hey, Doctor Who fans, go and watch Star Trek instead.

1030
00:51:53.099 --> 00:51:54.539
What was the episode before that?

1031
00:51:54.599 --> 00:51:55.800
Was that a comedy one?

1032
00:51:55.980 --> 00:52:01.920
Before that was Spock sex comedy, the annual Spock sex comedy?

1033
00:52:01.980 --> 00:52:06.480
No, the one before that episode was where, ah, I can't remember

1034
00:52:06.480 --> 00:52:07.920
her name takes over the ship.

1035
00:52:07.980 --> 00:52:09.539
Oh, Serene School.

1036
00:52:09.539 --> 00:52:11.460
Yeah, she's amazing. far out.

1037
00:52:11.519 --> 00:52:17.039
Yeah, it's just kind of like such a pivot from like, in general

1038
00:52:17.039 --> 00:52:19.679
genre and tone from one episode, because I've been watching, I

1039
00:52:19.679 --> 00:52:20.579
watch it about 2 and 8.

1040
00:52:20.639 --> 00:52:24.300
The 1st series like binged 2 and a go and it was just like, this

1041
00:52:24.300 --> 00:52:25.679
is a bit whiplash, but you know what?

1042
00:52:25.739 --> 00:52:29.039
It's absolutely... everything.

1043
00:52:29.099 --> 00:52:30.900
Yeah, that's what you want.

1044
00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:33.719
It's just so refreshing to have a Star Trek again that is just

1045
00:52:33.719 --> 00:52:34.559
episodic.

1046
00:52:35.519 --> 00:52:37.500
You know, that you can't just...

1047
00:52:37.559 --> 00:52:39.659
Yeah, the thing about Strangely Road is that the characters are so

1048
00:52:39.659 --> 00:52:40.500
immediate as well.

1049
00:52:40.559 --> 00:52:43.019
Yeah, like and know all of them from the off.

1050
00:52:43.079 --> 00:52:44.820
They're so relaxed.

1051
00:52:44.880 --> 00:52:49.139
Like they're so well played and so relaxed and so real.

1052
00:52:49.260 --> 00:52:52.199
They inhabit, they inhabit their characters really well, don't

1053
00:52:52.199 --> 00:52:52.320
they?

1054
00:52:52.380 --> 00:52:56.880
You know, the thing, this is my theory, that everyone has such

1055
00:52:56.880 --> 00:53:01.380
PTSD from series one and 2 of Star Trek, the Next Generation, that

1056
00:53:01.380 --> 00:53:07.440
they decide that they raise the floor by just saying we're going

1057
00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:08.280
to do this every week.

1058
00:53:08.280 --> 00:53:12.900
And they don't raise the ceiling like, oh, maybe they do.

1059
00:53:12.960 --> 00:53:15.900
There's some pretty great episodes there, but there's a sameness

1060
00:53:15.900 --> 00:53:21.059
to Star Trek the Next Generation, which I think that Strangely

1061
00:53:21.059 --> 00:53:24.719
Worlds is such a better version of Star Trek than that.

1062
00:53:25.500 --> 00:53:27.420
Just because it does everything.

1063
00:53:27.719 --> 00:53:32.159
I mean, there was a bit of an issue in as much as that there's

1064
00:53:32.159 --> 00:53:35.460
only 10 episodes long, so you have to kind of, you've got half of

1065
00:53:35.460 --> 00:53:39.119
the length of like a, a DSNA, the next generation says you've got

1066
00:53:39.119 --> 00:53:39.960
like squish everything.

1067
00:53:40.079 --> 00:53:40.739
Not even that.

1068
00:53:40.800 --> 00:53:43.440
It's like less than half because they're like 26 episodes long.

1069
00:53:43.500 --> 00:53:48.900
Yeah, I want episodes like the price. don't we get them Oh, did

1070
00:53:48.900 --> 00:53:51.239
you see, you haven't seen the lower decks trailer?

1071
00:53:51.300 --> 00:53:52.019
No.

1072
00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:55.320
So the lower decks trailer for season two, there's a scene in the

1073
00:53:55.320 --> 00:54:00.000
price where Beverly and Deanna are in...

1074
00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:03.480
As a limb doing in the in the gym doing jazz size in these

1075
00:54:03.480 --> 00:54:04.079
outfits.

1076
00:54:04.139 --> 00:54:09.960
And there's a scene in the in the lower deck series 4 trailer

1077
00:54:09.960 --> 00:54:16.380
where Shacks and Ransom are wearing exactly the same things

1078
00:54:16.380 --> 00:54:20.219
sitting opposite one another, doing splits, literally wearing the

1079
00:54:20.219 --> 00:54:22.019
same outfits, the same colour, everything.

1080
00:54:22.079 --> 00:54:24.480
Like it's absolutely 100% that.

1081
00:54:24.539 --> 00:54:28.139
Oh, are you watching Lower Decks, Fraser?

1082
00:54:28.199 --> 00:54:28.980
I've not.

1083
00:54:29.039 --> 00:54:29.579
I've not.

1084
00:54:29.639 --> 00:54:32.099
I've watched the 1st episode.

1085
00:54:32.099 --> 00:54:34.079
Oh, this is a bit.

1086
00:54:34.139 --> 00:54:36.300
No, I was with you, Fraser.

1087
00:54:36.360 --> 00:54:38.219
This is a bit like keep going.

1088
00:54:38.280 --> 00:54:41.760
Star Trek was Family Guy, which was a bit of a...

1089
00:54:41.820 --> 00:54:44.039
But it's actually properly Star Trek.

1090
00:54:44.099 --> 00:54:46.440
Like it has real proper Star Trek.

1091
00:54:46.500 --> 00:54:49.199
Things like it makes fun of Star Trek, but it does proper Star

1092
00:54:49.199 --> 00:54:50.579
Trek episodes in a way.

1093
00:54:50.639 --> 00:54:53.219
And wait till you see them come on board.

1094
00:54:53.280 --> 00:54:55.980
I was going to say, I'm going to have to because I know there's a

1095
00:54:55.980 --> 00:55:00.179
crossover episode. coming up and cutting up with a couple of

1096
00:55:00.179 --> 00:55:03.659
nights time for us, so I'm going to have to get into it before...

1097
00:55:03.659 --> 00:55:06.539
When are they going to their Deep Space 9 crossover, lower Dax

1098
00:55:06.539 --> 00:55:07.199
lower Dax.