WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:45:31 1 00:00:40.140 --> 00:00:50.039 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast too cheap to commission an electric guitar version of the theme tune this week. 2 00:00:50.100 --> 00:00:51.240 I'm Nathan. 3 00:00:51.299 --> 00:00:53.039 I'm James I'm Peter. 4 00:00:53.100 --> 00:00:54.420 And I'm Fraser. 5 00:00:54.479 --> 00:00:57.960 Well, last week we saw the consequences of the doctor's death. 6 00:00:58.020 --> 00:01:06.900 So this week we'll be asking ourselves the question, if it's not wrong to change the present, how can it be wrong to change the future or the past? 7 00:01:06.959 --> 00:01:12.120 Let's see if we can come up with an answer as we discuss before the flood. 8 00:01:21.180 --> 00:01:24.719 So, Fraser, you weren't here with us last week. 9 00:01:24.780 --> 00:01:29.280 And so, how did you find the first part of this story? 10 00:01:29.700 --> 00:01:31.560 It was really good. 11 00:01:32.280 --> 00:01:35.340 I remember watching it, you know, 1st time round enough. 12 00:01:35.400 --> 00:01:39.299 I remember the series night started with a really strong opening. 13 00:01:39.359 --> 00:01:47.700 It had, which is familiar, Magician's Apprentice, and then you came into under the lake and before the flood is the next 2 part, and I thought the 1st part was really, really strong. 14 00:01:47.700 --> 00:01:48.780 The story. 15 00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:52.200 Coming back to rewatch, again, thought exactly the same. 16 00:01:52.260 --> 00:01:54.719 It's just classic based under siege, isn't it? 17 00:01:54.780 --> 00:01:57.599 You know, you've got your cast of characters. 18 00:01:57.659 --> 00:02:05.939 You've got a really claustrophobic, intense setting, gets warriors of the deep done right underwater sea base, but it's damp. 19 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:12.300 It's rusty, you know, you can feel that moisture in the air, which is what worries the deepest is sadly missing. 20 00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:25.680 And then the ghosts coming in is tremendous fun as well with, you know, just how spooky they are, the shimmer around the edges, the missing eyes is just really quite terrifying for a family show. 21 00:02:25.680 --> 00:02:30.000 You can see why this one went out a little bit later than the 7 o'clock slot. 22 00:02:30.060 --> 00:02:43.979 And that just kind of builds up to that, that brilliant cliffhanger of, you know, the doctor's gone back in time and then what do you see out the window, but the doctor's ghost and in comes the credits and you just say, all right, how are you going to get out of this one? 23 00:02:44.460 --> 00:02:47.520 It's absolutely classic, isn't it? 24 00:02:47.580 --> 00:02:49.740 We were really positive about the cliffhanger. 25 00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:55.319 And one of the things we said last week, too, was that it's really fun to see Capaldi doing all of this stuff. 26 00:02:55.379 --> 00:03:03.960 Capaldi did have a sort of base under siege with last Christmas, but that was all sort of ridiculous and made up plus Santa. 27 00:03:04.020 --> 00:03:12.120 So this is his proper 1st base under siege and so he gets to be dismissive of whoever's in charge and all of that sort of thing. 28 00:03:12.180 --> 00:03:13.680 You know, he comes in like he owns the place. 29 00:03:13.740 --> 00:03:17.159 It's really fun to watch and you can see that he's really enjoying it. 30 00:03:17.219 --> 00:03:19.259 He's having a wheel of a team, isn't he? 31 00:03:19.319 --> 00:03:21.240 He's absolutely loving himself in this one. 32 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:34.860 And I think that's, that's, that's a bit of a difference between, you know, his 2nd series in his 1st series is how much more fun his doctor seems to be having since he was 80, he seems to be kind of, you know, he's a little bit tortured. 33 00:03:34.919 --> 00:03:36.479 He's a little bit, am I a good man? 34 00:03:36.539 --> 00:03:38.939 You know, why am I doing all of this? 35 00:03:38.939 --> 00:03:50.819 When you get into series 9, he's cut loose a lot more and you obviously have that scene with him where he is bouncing off the walls of that control room until the rest of the crew have to point out actually someone just died. 36 00:03:50.879 --> 00:03:53.460 Our friend just died and he has to get these cards out. 37 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:56.639 So there's that element of his performance in here, which is really enjoyable. 38 00:03:57.000 --> 00:04:01.080 I think too, the way that this starts is really good. 39 00:04:01.139 --> 00:04:11.580 So we get the traditional kind of previously on, but then we're somewhere else, and we're somewhere that we haven't seen before, and we don't get a reprise as such. 40 00:04:11.639 --> 00:04:18.360 We just get the previously on and then suddenly we're in 1980 in the village. 41 00:04:18.420 --> 00:04:24.660 And I'm not hugely sold on the village in a sense. 42 00:04:24.720 --> 00:04:31.079 I don't think it's that fascinating a place, but I don't mind the Soviet era propaganda posters. 43 00:04:31.139 --> 00:04:32.819 I think that just about sells it. 44 00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:33.660 No, absolutely. 45 00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:37.439 I think it's a really interesting idea, but they don't do anything with it, really. 46 00:04:37.500 --> 00:04:38.579 It's just a backdrop. 47 00:04:38.639 --> 00:04:40.800 There's nothing which is integral to the story. 48 00:04:40.860 --> 00:04:42.480 And it could have been really fascinating. 49 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:46.800 Having said that, I do think I was a little bit underwhelmed by... 50 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:49.379 Under the lake, I'm more whelmed by this episode. 51 00:04:49.500 --> 00:05:05.939 Oh, I think it's actually, because we do change location because there is more happening in the story and we are cutting back to the base, I feel like it's more of a traditional doctor episode, whereas last week's episode, as I said, then it felt like we were going through the motions a little bit, this is actually going off on a slightly more interesting tangent. 52 00:05:06.120 --> 00:05:14.939 It does that Moffat thing where the 2nd part of a two-parter has to pivot and do something significantly different. 53 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:23.339 So, you know, changes location, changes the gear of the story, turns everything on its head, which keeps things interesting, I think. 54 00:05:23.399 --> 00:05:25.980 So he introduces 2 new elements. 55 00:05:26.040 --> 00:05:31.680 So we get to see the village, which we had seen submerged out the window at the beginning of last week. 56 00:05:31.740 --> 00:05:36.180 And then we get this time paradox thing. 57 00:05:36.240 --> 00:05:43.500 And that is sort of hinted at, it's gestured at at the end of last week, but it really comes in here. 58 00:05:43.560 --> 00:05:49.860 So that opening, so you remember the opening of listen, right? 59 00:05:49.920 --> 00:05:57.540 And the doctor is talking to himself, and he's really genuinely talking to himself, he's in the TARDIS. 60 00:05:57.600 --> 00:06:04.800 He's going a bit bonkers and he's starting to talk to himself and he's starting to theorise about why people talk to themselves. 61 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:13.199 And the normal answer to a question like that is because this is a soliloquy and, you know, you're in a show and we need to know what you're thinking. 62 00:06:13.259 --> 00:06:16.259 But there's a real reason he doesn't have a companion this week. 63 00:06:16.319 --> 00:06:17.759 That's right That's right. 64 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:25.500 And so there's a real reason for it because he's going a bit mental and he is talking to himself and he's theorising about why people talk to themselves. 65 00:06:25.560 --> 00:06:26.879 Here we don't have that. 66 00:06:26.939 --> 00:06:28.319 This doesn't happen. 67 00:06:28.379 --> 00:06:31.439 Like, spoiler alert, none of it happens, right? 68 00:06:31.500 --> 00:06:32.579 It's a TV show. 69 00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:35.100 But this doesn't happen. 70 00:06:35.160 --> 00:06:39.000 Like, but it actually works really well because I think the doctor's a great lecturer. 71 00:06:39.060 --> 00:06:43.259 And so having him deliver a lecture to us is really great. 72 00:06:43.319 --> 00:06:52.980 But I found myself surprised that we made such heavy weather of the actual paradox. 73 00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:56.579 It's like there's this new and interesting thing, a time paradox. 74 00:06:56.639 --> 00:06:58.139 It's like, have you seen doctor? 75 00:06:59.220 --> 00:07:04.019 I do like the line where he says, it's the bootstrap paradox. 76 00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:04.800 Google it. 77 00:07:04.860 --> 00:07:06.660 Like I thought that was brilliant. 78 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:08.399 Like, that was really... 79 00:07:08.459 --> 00:07:10.199 That was really great. 80 00:07:10.259 --> 00:07:18.959 But essentially, I think at least one of Matt Smith's fezes is a bootstrap paradox fez that doesn't have any actual origin. 81 00:07:19.019 --> 00:07:20.279 It's a hat strap. 82 00:07:20.339 --> 00:07:21.660 That's right. 83 00:07:21.720 --> 00:07:31.740 I think that time crash is a bootstrap paradox where the 10th doctor remembers how to solve the thing because when he was the 5th doctor. 84 00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:35.100 He listened to the 10th doctor talking about how to solve the thing. 85 00:07:35.160 --> 00:07:37.560 And so that solution doesn't come from anywhere. 86 00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:47.160 And I think, too, the predestination paradox that we have here, which is the doctor is definitely, definitely dead. 87 00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:53.879 And how do we get out of this is what season 6 is it all about? 88 00:07:53.879 --> 00:08:02.339 And get solved really quite kind of deftly in a funny way at the end of season 6 where the doctor just... 89 00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:04.199 No, no, that seriously. 90 00:08:04.259 --> 00:08:12.600 So, you know, the doctor almost forgets that he has to solve the problem of the death at Lake Salencio. 91 00:08:12.660 --> 00:08:19.740 And so he sticks his head around the corner just after speaking to the test elector and says, oh, actually, wait, there is one thing I can get you to do. 92 00:08:19.800 --> 00:08:21.660 And then he solves that problem. 93 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:27.720 And so the essence of not changing time is changing what everything means. 94 00:08:27.779 --> 00:08:33.120 So what you see still happens, but it means something different and that's how you change time. 95 00:08:33.179 --> 00:08:35.759 So the box doesn't have the Fisher King in it. 96 00:08:35.820 --> 00:08:37.440 It's got the doctor in it. 97 00:08:37.500 --> 00:08:44.039 And I think maybe we probably predicted that in episode one if we had our wits about us. 98 00:08:44.100 --> 00:08:45.659 I mean, I would say yes. 99 00:08:45.779 --> 00:08:46.980 Yeah, let's say yes. 100 00:08:47.039 --> 00:08:51.000 It sounds smart. say yes. on the cutting room floor. 101 00:08:51.059 --> 00:09:01.860 I think the Oakland's really good. because it goes from that cliffhanger and it does that very moffety thing a bit doesn't resolve the cliffhanger within the 1st couple of minutes. 102 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:06.299 Because you can't you can't resolve this cliffhanger. you know, the cliffhanger is the doctor's dead. 103 00:09:06.360 --> 00:09:11.220 You know, yeah, we don't get the resolution of the cliffhang until the very end of the episode. 104 00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:14.700 So we need to come in with something different. 105 00:09:14.759 --> 00:09:18.240 So what they do is the spell out how they're going to get out of it. 106 00:09:18.299 --> 00:09:18.779 Yes. 107 00:09:18.779 --> 00:09:20.700 And that's the clever bit. 108 00:09:20.759 --> 00:09:23.759 I want to take you back to when you did flatline. 109 00:09:24.059 --> 00:09:34.379 And Stephen B talked about the film, the prestige, the Christopher Nolan film, the prestige, um, for the benefit of anyone listening that didn't catch that episode or hasn't seen the film. 110 00:09:34.440 --> 00:09:39.899 It basically is a magic act in 3 parts and at the very start of the film. 111 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:43.860 Michael Kane spells out what the magic act is. 112 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:44.820 It's got 3 parts. 113 00:09:44.879 --> 00:09:51.419 It's got the 1st part, which is the pledge, which is where the magician says to you, this is the magic act I'm going to do. 114 00:09:51.659 --> 00:10:05.399 The 2nd part is then the turn where the magician does the magic act, does exactly what they said they're going to do, but then the 3rd part is where the real magic happens, which is the prestige, which is the unexpected, you know, what you didn't see coming. 115 00:10:05.460 --> 00:10:14.759 So, in the film, the example is a disappearing bird in a cage, the magician gets up, says, I'm going to make this burden, this cage disappear, that's the pledge. 116 00:10:14.820 --> 00:10:16.980 The turn is, the cage collapses, disappears. 117 00:10:17.039 --> 00:10:22.019 Everyone claps everyone applauds, but then the magician brings the bird back, makes the bird reappear. 118 00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:32.879 So that's kind of what struck me about this. that opening, you know, called open of Peter Capaldi explaining as the doctor explaining the bootstrap paradox. 119 00:10:32.940 --> 00:10:33.659 That's the pledge. 120 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:37.259 So that's sort of Toby Witow saying, this is what I'm going to do. 121 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:41.159 You know, I'm telling you this because this is how it's going to get resolved. 122 00:10:41.220 --> 00:10:45.600 We have then, you know, if we, again, have our wits about us. 123 00:10:45.659 --> 00:11:01.500 We'll be watching this episode, then waiting for this to play out, thinking where is the bootstrap paradox going to be in this, and if we get to it at the end, if we get to the point where the doctor pops out and, you know, we totally predicted it or absolutely surprised, then that's fantastic. 124 00:11:01.559 --> 00:11:14.820 That's what it's done and then have the final scene where he kind of like really spells it out and brings us back to that that cold open with the um playing Beethoven's 5th on the guitar again that brings it into a nice loop. 125 00:11:14.879 --> 00:11:20.100 So that really struck me as, you know, this is Toby, which I was trying to do a magic trick on us. 126 00:11:20.700 --> 00:11:25.080 In fact, it turns out there's 2 different things going on here, isn't there? 127 00:11:25.139 --> 00:11:31.259 And the one that is front and centre is how does the doctor get out of this, the doctor's dead. 128 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:35.580 We see the consequences of his death at the end of the previous episode. 129 00:11:35.639 --> 00:11:39.120 When we go back in to this episode. 130 00:11:39.179 --> 00:11:40.860 We're somewhere where that's not known yet. 131 00:11:40.980 --> 00:11:50.220 And so the doctor doesn't know about any of that stuff and he has to be told by Clara that his ghost has arrived over the phone. 132 00:11:50.220 --> 00:11:53.759 And it's very clear that he has no plan. 133 00:11:53.820 --> 00:11:54.720 Don't you think? 134 00:11:54.779 --> 00:12:07.080 But he reacts as if he's about to die, even when he busts the shoulder of his coat and says, all right, well, I have to go and speak to the Fisher King now, he's reacting straightforwardly. 135 00:12:07.139 --> 00:12:08.460 He's not hiding anything from us. 136 00:12:08.519 --> 00:12:11.399 He hasn't got a solution yet. 137 00:12:11.580 --> 00:12:13.799 He's doing it on the hop business. 138 00:12:13.860 --> 00:12:14.460 It not a master plan. 139 00:12:14.519 --> 00:12:15.240 No, no. 140 00:12:15.299 --> 00:12:21.539 But then it turns out he has done some clever stuff, which we weren't properly privy to. 141 00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:23.879 And you remember he goes in and tells the Fisher King. 142 00:12:23.940 --> 00:12:26.279 Oh, no, I erased the thing and now it's never going to happen. 143 00:12:26.340 --> 00:12:28.019 You know, I erased all of the things. 144 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:29.759 And that's not, in fact, what he does. 145 00:12:29.820 --> 00:12:31.019 That's not the trick. 146 00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:36.480 And the trick is that he moves the suspended animation thing. 147 00:12:36.539 --> 00:12:40.980 He blows up the dam using the other power cell and so on. 148 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:42.899 So he's just getting the future to happen. 149 00:12:42.960 --> 00:12:52.320 And then it looks like at some point that we don't see before he gets into the, before he gets into the, oh. 150 00:12:52.440 --> 00:13:00.600 Actually, so before he gets into the sarcophagus thing, into the suspended animation thing, he does all the programming. 151 00:13:00.659 --> 00:13:11.159 So he programs the sonic sunglasses to connect to the base's Wi-Fi and create a Dr. Ghost hologram which behaves in certain way. 152 00:13:11.220 --> 00:13:19.440 And I wonder whether he's getting inklings of that idea when he tells Clara that he has to know exactly what it is that the ghost is doing. 153 00:13:19.500 --> 00:13:21.179 Yeah, maybe. 154 00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:27.240 When does he have time to do this unless he's doing it whilst he's talking to the Fisher King? 155 00:13:27.299 --> 00:13:38.220 Well, doesn't he just, but doesn't he just hop into the thing, do all his programming and then press the suspend animation button and then wake up? 156 00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:40.500 I just assumed that like... 157 00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:43.200 He's actually in the box where the Fisher King comes back. 158 00:13:43.259 --> 00:13:43.919 Why not? 159 00:13:43.980 --> 00:13:46.860 I mean, he's got half an hour, hasn't he? 160 00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:50.159 Because the tortoise hops back in time, so he's got kind of half an hour. 161 00:13:50.159 --> 00:14:00.600 The, the, do the sort of back to the future 2 thing of, you know, going back and re-seeing the events, which they can't interfere with. and then... which they do on Father's Day as well. 162 00:14:00.659 --> 00:14:01.080 Yes. 163 00:14:01.139 --> 00:14:01.679 Yeah, yeah. 164 00:14:01.740 --> 00:14:07.200 Actually, did did O'Donnell hear Bennett the 1st time? 165 00:14:07.259 --> 00:14:07.980 Yes. 166 00:14:07.980 --> 00:14:08.940 Because there is a moment. 167 00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:10.019 I went back and had a look. 168 00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:13.080 There is a moment where she looks off to the side, but it is not highlighted at all with us. 169 00:14:13.139 --> 00:14:13.799 Right, right. 170 00:14:13.860 --> 00:14:16.019 Because that shot of her is so beautiful. 171 00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:21.179 I mean, she I think she's really great in this episode. 172 00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:22.799 Like I think she comes to life. 173 00:14:22.860 --> 00:14:26.820 She was pretty good in the 1st episode, but I think she really comes to life in this episode. 174 00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:37.919 And there's a beautiful shot of her from Bennett's point of view where like there's some, you know, behind her head and she looks stunning and stuff and that's what sort of inspires him to get up and save her. 175 00:14:37.980 --> 00:14:44.279 She's reading the business card of the Tiboolian and... 176 00:14:44.940 --> 00:14:51.600 She's, and it's, yeah, it's just, you know, this is, this person, you know, living their best life. 177 00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:52.679 She is the fan of the doctor. 178 00:14:52.740 --> 00:14:55.440 She is now involved in one of the doctor's adventures. 179 00:14:55.500 --> 00:15:03.120 She's kind of, you know, got, you know, another 5 minutes left to live, unfortunately, but she is just living our best life at the moment and that's what Bennett says, isn't it? 180 00:15:03.299 --> 00:15:05.879 She's quite Ozgoody, isn't she? 181 00:15:05.940 --> 00:15:06.360 Yes. 182 00:15:06.419 --> 00:15:10.559 Yeah, with that fangurling thing, and she knows a lot more about the doctor. 183 00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:15.360 Like, she name checks Rose and Martha and Amy. 184 00:15:15.419 --> 00:15:16.320 Man. 185 00:15:16.379 --> 00:15:19.500 Yeah, and there's that, there's a kill the moon reference. 186 00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:21.960 What about the killer reference? 187 00:15:25.740 --> 00:15:29.639 It's also a tortured and Sarah Jane Adventures reference as well. 188 00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:36.840 The Arcatinians, the ones that liberate the Tavolians and then enslave them. 189 00:15:36.899 --> 00:15:44.940 Are the weird fishy aliens with the floating tendrils of hair from like Greeks bearing gifts and invasion of the bane. 190 00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:48.779 Well, he writes Greeks bearing gifts, doesn't he? 191 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:51.000 Like, we'd have rights there. 192 00:15:51.059 --> 00:15:51.480 Yes, he does. 193 00:15:51.539 --> 00:15:52.860 Yeah, yeah. 194 00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:54.899 Yes, okay. 195 00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:56.340 So he's reusing them. 196 00:15:56.399 --> 00:15:59.100 He's reusing the Devolians, obviously, from the god complex. 197 00:15:59.159 --> 00:16:01.679 Actually, find the Tvolians quite annoying. 198 00:16:01.740 --> 00:16:05.039 Yeah, I mean, it's a way of getting a comedian in, isn't it? 199 00:16:05.100 --> 00:16:07.799 We get a comedian in, you know, like... 200 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:09.000 Is David Wallace comedian? 201 00:16:09.059 --> 00:16:11.580 Well, I know David Williams, but I don't know this guy. 202 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:12.240 Paul Kay? 203 00:16:12.299 --> 00:16:13.379 I don't actually know who he is. 204 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:21.000 Suppork here made his name as a comedian in the UK in the sort of mid to the late 90s. 205 00:16:21.059 --> 00:16:30.000 He was a bit of an LEG type character, um, called Dennis Pennis, who would, um, rolling with laughter. 206 00:16:30.059 --> 00:16:54.899 But the routine would basically be, as Dennis Pennessy would be the sort of like ginger American character with a microphone who would go up to, you know, celebrities on the red carpet, but, you know, film premiers and more and ask them, you know, pretty offensive, you know, questions for, for the sake of laughs, a classic example, as he went up to Steve Martin and said, so Steve Martin, why are you not funny anymore? 207 00:16:54.899 --> 00:16:58.559 when he was kind of, wow. 208 00:16:58.620 --> 00:17:00.659 Dangerous territory for media, yeah. 209 00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:06.779 Yeah, so it's kind of like shock jock humour for, you know, the sort of AliG age. 210 00:17:07.019 --> 00:17:10.980 Dennis didn't last very long, but that's really how we made his name. 211 00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:14.519 He then obviously moved on into acting more serious roles. 212 00:17:14.579 --> 00:17:18.480 Most recently, he's been seeing as Thorus of Mia in Game of Thrones. 213 00:17:19.140 --> 00:17:20.640 Oh, okay. 214 00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:24.180 The sort of red priest who keeps bringing Dondarien back to life. 215 00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:31.680 So he's had, he has bad more, more sort of serious acting ones, but he was primarily a comedian when he 1st started out. 216 00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:44.519 I have a couple of observations about this. 217 00:17:44.579 --> 00:17:46.619 I think tackling a bootstrap paradox. 218 00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:56.880 It's probably a good thing for Doctor Who to do, but as we've pointed out, it has been done previously as a joke by Moffat in kind of time crash and a little bit in series 6 as well. 219 00:17:56.940 --> 00:18:00.599 And so I'm not quite sure why it merited having a whole episode about it. 220 00:18:00.660 --> 00:18:03.660 I don't mind it, but it's actually not that interesting, I find. 221 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:08.880 I mean, I think that's what I found the problem with this story a little bit last week. 222 00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:19.200 So last week the mystery was ghosts, and although that produced some scares and some atmosphere and some solid Doctor Who stuff, it wasn't groundbreaking. 223 00:18:19.259 --> 00:18:27.000 And then this week where it's the paradox thing, that seems sort of well worn ground as well. 224 00:18:27.059 --> 00:18:47.940 And so this kind of lacks the big idea that some of his other scripts have, like the God complex, or like a town called Mercy, where there is a really strong central idea, I'm just not quite sure what that strong idea is here. 225 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:57.900 And I think it is a lot of Doctor Who stuff done well, but it doesn't have the edge, I think, to say the Impossible Planet has. 226 00:18:58.619 --> 00:18:59.759 Yeah, I guess that's it. 227 00:18:59.819 --> 00:19:03.059 Although, the ice warriors, the ice warriors. 228 00:19:03.180 --> 00:19:04.680 That's great. 229 00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:05.220 Shut up. 230 00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:05.700 It is. 231 00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:06.180 It's great. 232 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:07.500 It is. 233 00:19:07.619 --> 00:19:08.160 It is. 234 00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:08.759 Probably great. 235 00:19:08.940 --> 00:19:13.619 For me, I don't think the story was necessarily the bootstrop paradox. 236 00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:18.720 I think the paradox was just the way of tying ends up at the end. 237 00:19:19.259 --> 00:19:46.019 I always think back to the episode of The Simpsons, which is the Lord of the Flies parody, where the school bus crashes, the kids end up on an island, it all goes, Lord of the Flies are about to eat Milhouse or Martin Prince or someone, and Bart stops them, and then you have this pan back at the very end of the episode, pans back from this island, and James Hill, Jones voice comes in and says, well, the children all learned a valuable lesson here today, and oh, I don't know. 238 00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:47.640 Let's just say that we're rescued by. 239 00:19:47.700 --> 00:19:49.259 Oh, I don't know, let's say Moe. 240 00:19:49.319 --> 00:19:50.940 It's just that. 241 00:19:50.940 --> 00:19:58.859 It's the idea that, you know, the final resolution isn't really quite as important as what's happened beforehand. 242 00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:12.359 So that, again, struck me as this is, you know, the bootstrap paradox bit is how it's solved at the end, you know, you go through this whole story thinking, well, are they ghosts, or they're not ghosts, and it's never really properly answered. 243 00:20:12.420 --> 00:20:23.940 It's just electromagnetic projections and technobabble and, you know, you never really get a good sense of, you know, how how is the Fisher King made ghosts, essentially. 244 00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:24.900 It's just... 245 00:20:24.900 --> 00:20:31.440 I think I said last week that the explanation had the word souls in it, and so it didn't really constitute an explanation. 246 00:20:31.500 --> 00:20:34.140 It was really just saying the same thing in different words. 247 00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:43.200 It's like he turned people's souls into electromagnetic kind of things that can pick up metal and like whatever. 248 00:20:43.259 --> 00:20:51.779 Like it was never really going to be very good, which is why it's not a great central mystery in episode one. 249 00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:58.319 And then here, it's not so much the bootstrap paradox as the doctor's reluctance to change time. 250 00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:04.619 And he doesn't want to do it and the Fisher King makes fun of him for still kind of obeying those rules. 251 00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:08.039 Clara tells him off and says just break the rules. 252 00:21:08.099 --> 00:21:08.880 It doesn't matter. 253 00:21:08.940 --> 00:21:22.619 And he even kind of does this feint to the fisher king where he says, yeah, I erased the inside of your hearse and now none of this is going to have happened. 254 00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:45.660 And I always have a problem with these things, which is the idea that there are moral rules that govern time travel seems like nonsense to me, that you can do a thing in the present day, but if you travel back in time a year and do the same thing that's wrong. 255 00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:46.619 And I don't get that. 256 00:21:46.680 --> 00:21:51.299 Like, I just, that doesn't land for me in any kind of real sense. 257 00:21:51.359 --> 00:22:01.259 And so, for instance, with Waters of Mars, which I think is a brilliant story, it's like, why does the doctor not just go, I don't care about the rules of time? 258 00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:07.740 I'm going to save these people because what I always do is ignore the rules in order to save people. 259 00:22:07.799 --> 00:22:10.140 And that's what we love about the doctor. 260 00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:12.960 That's what Bob Holmes kind of creates, I think. 261 00:22:13.019 --> 00:22:15.059 So that is the thing. 262 00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:24.059 I think that that's kind of the central, like when we're having conversations about stuff that's mostly what we're having conversations about in this episode. 263 00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:31.799 So I think that there is a kind of ingenious way of solving it, but it's, we just told it in a way, you know, we just told it. 264 00:22:31.859 --> 00:22:40.140 And suddenly the base has the ability to project holograms outside the windows for some reason, like whatever. 265 00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:43.019 Like it doesn't matter. you know, I guess. 266 00:22:43.079 --> 00:22:46.559 But we have whatever we need for that to sort of kind of work. 267 00:22:46.619 --> 00:22:59.339 But it's nowhere near as clever as, you know, river looking into the doctor's eye in the wedding of river song and seeing a tiny doctor wave back at her because he's solved the problem undetectably. 268 00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:03.299 So it doesn't look like time's been changed at all and everything's fine. 269 00:23:04.019 --> 00:23:07.380 It's less fun, I think, than that. 270 00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:09.000 Nathan, all true. 271 00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:13.859 And also to Fraser's points about the fact that bootstrap paradox is just a means to an end. 272 00:23:13.980 --> 00:23:24.240 I think that's the problem if you're introducing a bootstrap paradox, then you've got to commit to it, which is why we then have the scene at the beginning where you have to explain it and suddenly it becomes bigger than what it is. 273 00:23:24.299 --> 00:23:28.079 And so the episode becomes about the bootstrap paradox and that's not very interesting. 274 00:23:28.140 --> 00:23:31.079 So it's not what the episode's about. 275 00:23:31.140 --> 00:23:37.019 But it's kind of one unanswered question at the end of the episode, and I like those. 276 00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:37.680 Yes. 277 00:23:37.740 --> 00:23:46.019 But it's not actually clearly shown to be a bootstrap paradox in the episode itself. that you don't see enough of it. 278 00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:50.099 So they have to lampshade at the beginning and the end to say, well, this is how we solved it. 279 00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:51.539 And that's tell, don't show. 280 00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:56.220 I mean, you're not actually, it's like, oh, we did something clever. 281 00:23:56.279 --> 00:23:56.940 We didn't show you it. 282 00:23:57.000 --> 00:23:59.339 We just told you we did something clever at the end. 283 00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:04.920 Yeah, because he explains, no, I did all of that stuff because you told me that I had done it. 284 00:24:04.980 --> 00:24:07.380 And so why did I originally do it? 285 00:24:07.740 --> 00:24:11.579 Well there's none of that because we've got this causality loop thing happening. 286 00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:13.859 And so there's no 1st cause to any of this. 287 00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:17.940 It's no, I went back and bribed the architect first. 288 00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:24.720 Yes, but like I said, we did it in time crash and it was for a throwaway gag. 289 00:24:24.779 --> 00:24:29.519 Maybe bootstrap paradoxes, I like other time, things they're only good for cheap tricks. 290 00:24:29.579 --> 00:24:32.700 Like the doctor says in Smith and Jones. 291 00:24:32.700 --> 00:24:34.740 Ambassadors of death. 292 00:24:47.339 --> 00:24:49.680 I want to talk about the Fisher King. 293 00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:54.539 El Sandafar, noted critic of Doctor Who calls it the bone vervoid. 294 00:24:54.599 --> 00:24:59.400 James is bursting to say something rude and unbroadcastable about it. 295 00:24:59.460 --> 00:25:01.140 I call it the fishwife king. 296 00:25:01.380 --> 00:25:08.519 So is the Fisher King the latest in the long tradition of Doctor Who Monsters that in some way resemble human genitalia? 297 00:25:08.579 --> 00:25:14.160 Yep, you're not getting that as a title this week, James, but I can't, because Fraser's here. 298 00:25:14.220 --> 00:25:16.140 Do you want me to see her that lane then you don't? 299 00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:19.920 Yeah, you can take the latest example of blah, blah, blah. 300 00:25:19.980 --> 00:25:20.640 Yeah, yeah. 301 00:25:20.700 --> 00:25:23.519 I mean, we'd love to see the Erato meets the Fisher King. 302 00:25:23.579 --> 00:25:25.319 Yo, no, I don't think we would. 303 00:25:25.619 --> 00:25:29.880 So, again, it's quite good when it's offscreen. 304 00:25:29.880 --> 00:25:34.500 And like hilariously, it gets 3 credits, right? 305 00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:40.619 So you know how we get voice of Alpha Centauri is Zan Churchman. 306 00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:42.539 Body of Alva Centauri is what? 307 00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:43.500 Stuart Fell. 308 00:25:43.559 --> 00:25:46.500 Here we get voice of the Fisher King. 309 00:25:46.559 --> 00:26:06.480 The Fisher King is played by a massively tall person, someone called Neil Fingleton, who is the tallest person ever recorded in Britain, and then the tallest person in Europe, and he died, tragically, from being tall, he had a heart attack and died at the age of 37. 310 00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:12.000 And then the person who took over from him was in a cut scene in. 311 00:26:12.180 --> 00:26:13.259 Can you hear me? 312 00:26:13.259 --> 00:26:17.700 playing another Doctor Who monster, the guy who took over as tallest person in England. 313 00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:22.259 So if you're the tallest person in England, we should mention this to Cy, possibly. 314 00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:27.299 If you're the tallest person in England, you have a fair chance. 315 00:26:27.539 --> 00:26:29.819 I didn't mention it to Brendan because I thought... 316 00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:36.720 If you're the tallest person in England, you have a fair chance of becoming a Doctor Who monster. 317 00:26:36.779 --> 00:26:52.740 But the voice is Peter Serafinowitz, and then separately credited is the roar of the Fish King. who is Corey Taylor, who was for a while the lead singer of Slipknot. 318 00:26:52.980 --> 00:26:56.819 So he does the raw. 319 00:26:56.880 --> 00:27:00.599 It's sad that we were missing Fisher King movement by Rosalind. 320 00:27:00.660 --> 00:27:01.619 De Winter, yeah, yeah. 321 00:27:01.859 --> 00:27:22.740 So it's Peter Serafinoitz as the voice, and last week we had the incredible Colin McFarlane, who was the voice of the host in Voyage of the Damned, and now doesn't get to do anything besides whisper those words over and over again in this episode. 322 00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:40.559 And you've got Peter Serafinowitz, who was, of course, Darth Mall in the 2 lines that Darth Mall gets in The Phantom Menace and is terribly funny and hilarious and just got, he's just got an incredible voice. 323 00:27:40.619 --> 00:27:41.880 He's fantastic. 324 00:27:41.940 --> 00:27:44.220 He's another comedian as well. 325 00:27:44.279 --> 00:27:52.980 Again, he started out his career as a comedian comedy writer before moving on to, you know, more CVC actor and roles. 326 00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:57.119 I know investors the tick from the Amazon series. 327 00:27:57.180 --> 00:28:01.079 Yes, of course. which is he's absolutely pitch perfect in. 328 00:28:01.380 --> 00:28:05.339 I mean, I would say the Fisher King is more funny, strange than funny. 329 00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:05.940 Ha ha. 330 00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:08.400 He was also in that episode of black books, wasn't he? 331 00:28:08.460 --> 00:28:09.660 Yes, he was in black. 332 00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:11.880 Was it was it him in that episode of Black? 333 00:28:11.940 --> 00:28:12.720 Yes, yes. 334 00:28:12.839 --> 00:28:15.900 He's reading the shipping news in the episode of Black books. 335 00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:31.859 Is he the person responsible for that fake series of science videos called Look Around You, which occasionally people at my school put on in class and just wait and see how long it is before the children realise that this is absolutely ridiculous? 336 00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:34.200 And there's a film about water and stuff like that. 337 00:28:34.259 --> 00:28:35.519 It's absolutely hilarious. 338 00:28:35.579 --> 00:28:48.240 And of course, he's Brian Butterfield, who is famous for the Brian Butterfield diet, which I will lead to in the show notes, and you should all watch immediately because it's absolutely superb. 339 00:28:48.299 --> 00:28:51.180 Yes, you know they mean 2 seasons of look around you. 340 00:28:51.240 --> 00:28:52.500 Oh, yeah, okay. 341 00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:53.519 And it is him, isn't it? 342 00:28:53.579 --> 00:28:54.660 It is him, yes. 343 00:28:54.720 --> 00:28:55.019 Yes. 344 00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:55.980 It is him. yeah. 345 00:28:56.039 --> 00:28:56.339 No. 346 00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:58.619 It's like, yeah, he's one of the leads in it. 347 00:28:58.680 --> 00:28:59.940 It's really funny. 348 00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:01.859 I mean it's properly brilliant, I think. 349 00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:12.900 I mean, talking about latest in the long line of the Fisher King is the latest in the long line of Doctor Who monsters who look fine when they're in the shadows, well, you take them out and put them on location and shoot them in wide shot. 350 00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:13.740 They just look ridiculous. 351 00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:20.339 Yeah, that that shot of him sort of stumbling out of the church is hoodwobbling. 352 00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:21.779 Yeah, is not great, is it? 353 00:29:21.839 --> 00:29:24.900 And he's a bit of a nothing monster, isn't he? 354 00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:34.140 Like, he's called a fisher king and you kind of expect it to have some kind of mythological King Arthur thing happening, but not really. 355 00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:40.619 And so he gets off some zingers at the doctor, you know, and the time lords and stuff. 356 00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:43.440 But he's a little bit nothing, I think. 357 00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:49.920 He's a bit like Tim Shaw in that he sort of thinks he's a big villain, but he's small fry compared to all the doctor. 358 00:29:49.980 --> 00:29:50.759 Yeah, maybe that's it. 359 00:29:50.819 --> 00:29:51.599 Maybe that's it. 360 00:29:51.660 --> 00:30:03.660 I think the issue with the Pisha King really is one of the strengths of this story for me is the way that it does have the 1st part which is set in one location and the 2nd part going back in time. 361 00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:13.140 I mean, that's the real interesting part of the story is when we go back in time to see what's led to these events that are happening, you know, saying the before the now, as it were. 362 00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:30.420 And that's a real strength, but also it's a bit of a weakness because it means that we don't actually get to be introduced to the Fisher King until about, you know, 3rd of the way through the 2nd part, so most of the story's gone before we're even introduced to this character who is supposed to be a big bad, the big evil. 363 00:30:30.420 --> 00:30:36.539 And so he comes across as a bit of a nothing because there's no chance to give him any sort of backstory. 364 00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:45.900 All we get is from Prentice, you know, that the Fisher King enslaved our world, then someone else came and enslaved us, which were more thankful for and so on and so forth. 365 00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:49.079 So you don't get any sense of menace or danger from. 366 00:30:49.140 --> 00:30:55.740 Yes, he kills Puo O'Donnell, but that's the only, you know, on screen death, we say, you know, he kills 2 characters. 367 00:30:55.799 --> 00:31:00.180 There's nothing else there because we don't have the time to give them anything else there. 368 00:31:00.660 --> 00:31:16.019 In terms of stomping up to the ship, yeah, that is, you know, a weak shot, you know, it does remind me of what would happen if one of the vervoids became one of the dominators, then all that costume. watch the hell out of that. 369 00:31:17.940 --> 00:31:28.680 But at the same time, when it comes to his final end, the final shot of the Fisher King with him stood in front of the oncoming flood with his arms outstretched. 370 00:31:28.740 --> 00:31:30.960 It's pretty correct in that kind of fate with his role. 371 00:31:31.019 --> 00:31:34.980 I thought that was a brilliant shot. as a white show of this episode. 372 00:31:37.380 --> 00:31:40.259 That was a really effective shot for me. 373 00:31:40.380 --> 00:31:46.319 He sort of, I did want to go, whee. got pulled out of shot. 374 00:31:46.380 --> 00:31:48.119 But it was pretty great. 375 00:31:48.180 --> 00:31:51.000 And it is sort of epic like with the crashing waters and stuff. 376 00:31:51.059 --> 00:32:00.059 I still don't know where all the water comes from and why that lake is now so deep when that dam is so short. 377 00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:07.259 The water's so deep that you have to build a base all the way under there. rather than just kind of like put boats there or something like that. 378 00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:12.420 I actually have to say that was one of my issues with this story and I don't get a defined sense of place. 379 00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:21.180 We know that the drum is in that lake, but I never get when they go back in time, the idea that that's the same place that the drum is there right there in future time. 380 00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:25.440 They do show you the kind of flooded village in one shot out the window. 381 00:32:25.500 --> 00:32:36.839 See, we generally, unanimously, I have to say, because Simon's not here, didn't think very much of the ganga's two-parter. 382 00:32:36.900 --> 00:32:38.759 That's putting it kindly. 383 00:32:38.819 --> 00:32:39.299 Well. 384 00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:48.960 But I thought that the, that, that place, again, we had no real sense of where that place was or why or why they were mining for acid or any of that. 385 00:32:49.019 --> 00:32:55.380 But there was a kind of a weirdness about that place that didn't make it a standard base under siege. 386 00:32:55.440 --> 00:32:59.940 And then the decision to shoot it in sort of various castles and stone buildings and stuff like that. 387 00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:06.059 Like it was a murky looking episode and stuff, but it did lend an edge to it. 388 00:33:06.119 --> 00:33:08.220 Here, here. 389 00:33:08.279 --> 00:33:14.039 I think the corridors, as you said at the beginning, phraser, like that base, I think, looks properly good. 390 00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:28.380 And I said last week that, you know, money and technology and stuff has come on and it looks better in lots of ways than even than the base on the Impossible Planet. 391 00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:32.339 But it doesn't, like, it just doesn't make any sense. 392 00:33:32.460 --> 00:33:49.500 Like they're drilling for oil in 2119 for a start and I do like the doctor's reaction to learning that Richard Pritchard was an oil company guy, like he just sort of tosses the oil thing away. 393 00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:50.279 Oil, okay. 394 00:33:50.339 --> 00:33:52.920 And, you know, throws his business card away. 395 00:33:53.940 --> 00:33:55.980 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 396 00:33:56.039 --> 00:34:03.480 But like, why are they building a underwater base in a fairly shallow lake somewhere in Scotland? 397 00:34:03.539 --> 00:34:05.759 Like I just, who knows? 398 00:34:05.819 --> 00:34:06.119 whatever. 399 00:34:06.180 --> 00:34:09.840 What's what's the, the version of Space Reasons then? 400 00:34:09.900 --> 00:34:11.039 Scottish reason? 401 00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:11.880 Scottish reason? 402 00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:30.780 We said last week that, well, I said last week, people disagreed with me that I didn't think the direction was very strong on this episode, and I think that's the same this week. 403 00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:32.519 I think it's let down in a number of ways. 404 00:34:32.579 --> 00:34:43.679 And I think that it would have been more interesting to have had that town, that military town and all of its bits, like they go into an office at one and there's like a dummy behind a desk and posters up. 405 00:34:43.739 --> 00:34:51.840 The camera doesn't dwell on them in any way, whereas actually you would have been placed more in the environment if it had been set up properly on screen, whereas it's just there in long shot in the background. 406 00:34:51.900 --> 00:34:54.059 And that's why it feels a little bit murky. 407 00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:54.840 The whole thing does. 408 00:34:54.900 --> 00:34:58.800 Part of the problem too is that that sort of comes out of nowhere. 409 00:34:58.860 --> 00:35:03.179 So it's a town in Scotland that was made up to look like a Russian town. 410 00:35:03.239 --> 00:35:09.420 We do know that that's the sort of thing that did happen during the Cold War. 411 00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:14.940 Maybe 1980s too late for it, but that does seem to be the sort of thing that was going on. 412 00:35:15.059 --> 00:35:19.320 And it is shot at Ministry of Defence facility. 413 00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:21.480 Do you remember the town of Christmas? 414 00:35:21.539 --> 00:35:23.099 Wasn't the town of Christmas shot? 415 00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:24.239 in a location. 416 00:35:24.300 --> 00:35:25.380 What's it called? 417 00:35:25.380 --> 00:35:26.340 Phubia town. 418 00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:27.119 What's? 419 00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:30.420 Phibia, fighting in built up areas. 420 00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:31.260 Right, okay. 421 00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:31.559 Yeah. 422 00:35:31.619 --> 00:35:34.980 So it was a training thing, the town of Christmas on the planet of Christmas. 423 00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:37.320 Fubar is far beyond all repair. 424 00:35:37.380 --> 00:35:39.719 It was fine, but the doctor was not. 425 00:35:39.780 --> 00:35:45.059 I think the location, you're all right, doc, it isn't used most effectively. 426 00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:48.239 You kind of think, well, why does it need to be a Scottish village? 427 00:35:48.300 --> 00:35:50.880 Why does it need to be a Scottish village pretend to be a Soviet village? 428 00:35:50.940 --> 00:35:53.219 Why can't it just be a Soviet village or why can't it be? 429 00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:54.360 Any of the others? 430 00:35:54.420 --> 00:35:56.219 I don't think it necessarily takes anything away. 431 00:35:56.280 --> 00:35:58.679 But it doesn't necessarily add anything either. 432 00:35:58.739 --> 00:36:00.719 It's just kind of there. 433 00:36:00.780 --> 00:36:02.219 It feels like it should be an interesting setting. 434 00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:03.480 Yeah, it's not quite. 435 00:36:03.539 --> 00:36:04.320 It could be. 436 00:36:04.380 --> 00:36:05.159 That the thing, isn't it? 437 00:36:05.219 --> 00:36:27.719 I think there is, you know, a lot of elements of this that could be a little bit more interesting if maybe's, you know, we had a little bit more time or if it wasn't quite, you know, spread across 2 episodes in the way that it was, again, you know, kind of strengths and weaknesses about them and that, you know, we could have had a whole episode just set in this village and, you know, rather than having to cut backwards and forwards between the base and earn another story. 438 00:36:27.780 --> 00:36:35.519 Even it been like properly before the flood, in a sense that there's something else going on where it's not already abandoned. 439 00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:39.480 Yeah, like it's abandoned before it gets flooded. 440 00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:41.400 Maybe, who knows? 441 00:36:41.460 --> 00:36:54.000 I mean, it's clearly not a Russian village because not all of the people on the base in 2119. you know, all of the people in the base in 2119 are British. 442 00:36:54.059 --> 00:36:59.940 And so, you know, we're not going to do Cold War again. 443 00:37:00.179 --> 00:37:03.840 So, so I guess it has to be in Scotland. 444 00:37:03.900 --> 00:37:10.139 It looks, I mean, you know, like the location is a good location, but I think maybe you're right. 445 00:37:10.199 --> 00:37:11.639 Maybe the director lets it down. 446 00:37:11.699 --> 00:37:19.320 You kind of think that he had Saul Metstein, the previous episode, and then Nick Haran, the episode before that. 447 00:37:19.380 --> 00:37:34.800 He has been very lucky to get some incredible directors and some great actors, you know, cast in his previous scripts, and here he's been a little bit less lucky, and so the whole thing looks a bit too nondescript, I think. 448 00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:38.579 I think also the whole of this series so far has been given a very heavy grade. 449 00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:40.619 And so it all looks quite dingy. 450 00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:41.340 Oh, yeah. 451 00:37:41.400 --> 00:37:43.260 Magician's Apprentice did. 452 00:37:43.320 --> 00:37:47.280 The bass does and also on the location in the town does. 453 00:37:47.340 --> 00:37:50.280 But it wouldn't have taken a whole lot to just dwell on the details. 454 00:37:50.340 --> 00:37:55.860 Do you remember the curse of Fenwick when you go into Commander Millington's office and it's made up as a Nazi office? 455 00:37:55.980 --> 00:37:57.179 Is it Hitler's office? 456 00:37:57.239 --> 00:37:57.780 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 457 00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:03.960 And that's just an interesting detail, but it adds a lot to the storytelling, whereas here we don't even get that level of going into it. 458 00:38:04.019 --> 00:38:05.519 I don't mind it though. 459 00:38:05.579 --> 00:38:07.019 I don't mind this episode. 460 00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:09.119 It's just a bit nondescript. 461 00:38:09.179 --> 00:38:11.519 Yeah, I mean, I enjoyed this episode. 462 00:38:11.579 --> 00:38:13.260 I think it's one of the stronger ones. 463 00:38:13.260 --> 00:38:18.539 In terms of the direction, I think you are, right, that it's, there's nothing sings about the direction. 464 00:38:18.659 --> 00:38:21.059 I don't think there's anything necessarily poor about it. 465 00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:26.519 It's just, It is just a directed episode of Doctor Who. 466 00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:29.519 I think, you know, Daniel O'Hara, the director doesn't come back. 467 00:38:29.579 --> 00:38:33.480 There's nothing in this to suggest why you would actually want them to come back. 468 00:38:33.539 --> 00:38:35.460 Yeah, you don't want that on rotten tomatoes, do you? 469 00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:37.139 A directed episode of Doctor Who. 470 00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:42.599 I think we've touched on this already in the episode. 471 00:38:42.659 --> 00:38:45.119 Like, it doesn't do anything poorly. 472 00:38:45.179 --> 00:38:45.780 No. 473 00:38:45.780 --> 00:38:47.880 But, you know, it doesn't, it's not terrible. 474 00:38:47.940 --> 00:38:50.219 It's, it's, it's, it's workmanlike. 475 00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:55.199 It's a, it does a lot of Doctor Who type things well. 476 00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:57.420 But it doesn't stand out. 477 00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:13.980 So I have to make a confession that this is as far as I've got in my rewatching of series 9 and I am, I think, probably not going to get very far ahead of where we go. 478 00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:21.840 So I'm not in a position to say where this sort of sits in relation to the season as a whole. 479 00:39:21.900 --> 00:39:26.340 And I also am not really in a position to say what I think about the season as the whole. 480 00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:33.719 As I said, I haven't really gone back to this very much and it's the season of Doctor Who that I know least well, I think. 481 00:39:33.780 --> 00:39:40.079 That's okay, Nathan. that why we do retrospective Then I can bring out my polished opinions. 482 00:39:40.139 --> 00:39:52.679 But Todd, I think it's worth saying that Todd really rates this, and I can see why as well, because it is Doctor Who things that are very well done. 483 00:39:52.739 --> 00:39:56.579 And because he loves Peter Capoldi and he's right to do so. 484 00:39:56.639 --> 00:40:01.860 I think he enjoys Peter Capoldi doing these Doctor Who things. 485 00:40:01.980 --> 00:40:05.460 And that is a proper pleasure that the episode affords. 486 00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:08.159 And I can completely see why people do like this. 487 00:40:08.219 --> 00:40:09.539 I absolutely see that. 488 00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:15.480 I say it's working online, but I thoroughly enjoyed it mainly for those, for the same reasons as Todd. 489 00:40:15.539 --> 00:40:18.179 Like, it's Doctor Who done well with a good doctor. 490 00:40:18.239 --> 00:40:23.820 Like one, probably one of the better actors to ever, ever played this character. 491 00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:25.980 Yeah, same reason I like Time Lash. 492 00:40:26.039 --> 00:40:27.000 And he just gets it. 493 00:40:27.059 --> 00:40:28.320 He just gets Doctor Who. 494 00:40:28.380 --> 00:40:29.400 Exactly. 495 00:40:29.460 --> 00:40:31.199 No, that's exactly it. 496 00:40:31.260 --> 00:40:34.139 You know, it hits so many beats, doesn't it? 497 00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:36.960 You know, I've got a few continuity references in. 498 00:40:37.019 --> 00:40:42.780 You've got, you know, Peter Capaldi enjoying himself being the doctor and the doctor enjoying doing Doctor Who things. 499 00:40:42.840 --> 00:40:45.239 In terms of the series as a whole. 500 00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:55.380 I think, you know, one of the problems with the season why potentially people don't go back to revisit it is because it is a series of 2 partners. 501 00:40:55.440 --> 00:41:05.760 So, you know, if you want to watch and enjoy this episode, technically you have to watch the one beforehand and if you watch the one beforehand, then you feel, well, I've got to come back and watch this one as well. 502 00:41:05.820 --> 00:41:13.380 So, you know, in terms of dipping in and out as a rewatch, that kind of hampers it, you know, if I sit and I've go, well, you know, I'm not ready for bed yet. 503 00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:19.559 I'm going to put an episode of Doctor Who on, I wouldn't necessarily come to this series, and that's one of the reasons why. 504 00:41:19.619 --> 00:41:24.539 Where it sits in the series is interesting because it's very arc light. 505 00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:24.780 Yeah. 506 00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:31.260 The arc for the series being for better or worse, the hybrid, and there's no mention of the hybrid throughout. 507 00:41:31.320 --> 00:41:40.500 So that makes it a bit more accessible as is just a, as I want to enjoy by itself, and it does feel very much like a standalone episode. 508 00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:46.619 There is the theme, one of the themes of the series rather than an Arca theme is Clara becoming the doctor. 509 00:41:47.159 --> 00:41:56.820 And that is very evident in the 1st part under the lake where the doctor even, you know, points it out and says there's only room for one of me in this tortoise. 510 00:41:56.880 --> 00:41:58.079 And it's... 511 00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:00.000 It's kind of shoehorned in at the beginning of the episode. 512 00:42:00.059 --> 00:42:01.619 There's only one me. 513 00:42:01.679 --> 00:42:03.300 Yes. definitely. 514 00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:12.840 And in this episode, it's very obvious when Clara sends Lun out to get the phone, which allegedly they need, they don't actually need the phone anymore. 515 00:42:12.900 --> 00:42:18.840 I think everything's been done at that point, but, you know, she, we need this phone and we must contact the doctor, so you must go out and get it. 516 00:42:18.900 --> 00:42:24.360 And there's no argument and she literally says, you know, the doctors taught me how to make these decisions. 517 00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:33.659 We're seeing that very, very clearly the theme of this series, Chloe becoming the doctor and taking risks with hers own and other people's lives. 518 00:42:33.719 --> 00:42:36.360 It's a very flatline moment, isn't it? 519 00:42:36.420 --> 00:42:37.500 That moment. 520 00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:47.579 And just another mention of how pretty Lun is, because I just rewatched this episode just before recording and he is very sweet. 521 00:42:47.639 --> 00:42:49.679 I like his curly hair. 522 00:42:49.739 --> 00:42:52.079 Yeah, those eyebrows are pretty amazing as well. 523 00:42:52.619 --> 00:42:57.119 So it's actually funny, the Clara moment here, isn't it? 524 00:42:57.179 --> 00:43:01.980 Because it isn't just the Clara sending Lund to go and get the phone, which is great. 525 00:43:02.039 --> 00:43:03.239 It's played really well. 526 00:43:03.300 --> 00:43:07.559 Like, um, Cass's reaction, all of that stuff is really, really terrific. 527 00:43:07.619 --> 00:43:12.059 I think it's a proper solid B plot thing for them to be doing. 528 00:43:12.119 --> 00:43:13.320 And I think it works really well. 529 00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:19.920 You know, there's that thing where she starts to appear dependent on the doctor. 530 00:43:19.980 --> 00:43:26.039 And there was that thing in episode one, wasn't it, where he says you need a hobby or you need a relationship? 531 00:43:26.099 --> 00:43:27.840 It can't just be me. 532 00:43:27.900 --> 00:43:31.500 And then when she's faced with the prospect of the doctor dying. 533 00:43:31.619 --> 00:43:37.860 She says, you can't make yourself essential to me or something like that and then die. 534 00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:45.480 And so it's not just, it's not just that she's becoming the doctor, but that they're becoming weirdly codependent. 535 00:43:45.539 --> 00:43:54.480 Remember that the doctor admits to Bennett, that the thing that's making him change time is to save Clara. 536 00:43:54.539 --> 00:43:57.239 He's not going to do that to save O'Donnell. 537 00:43:57.300 --> 00:43:58.980 He's not going to do it to save himself. 538 00:43:59.039 --> 00:44:00.539 He's doing it to save Clara. 539 00:44:00.599 --> 00:44:14.460 And I think that that theme is inextricable from the arc, I think, because I can't remember where we land with the hybrid, but there's every chance the hybrid is the doctor and Clara, isn't it? 540 00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:15.360 I don't know. 541 00:44:15.420 --> 00:44:16.260 I can't even remember. 542 00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:20.880 Don't think anyone ever knows who the hybrid is, to be honest. 543 00:44:38.940 --> 00:44:48.059 All right, it is part two of a two part story, and so, traditionally, we have the peaks of the week. 544 00:44:48.119 --> 00:44:48.480 James. 545 00:44:48.659 --> 00:44:56.940 So if you like time travel and paradoxes, I don't think you can go past Dirk Gently Celestic Detective Agency. 546 00:44:57.000 --> 00:45:00.960 Which one Well, the original... 547 00:45:01.019 --> 00:45:02.159 Yeah, the book, the book. 548 00:45:02.219 --> 00:45:02.519 Sorry. 549 00:45:02.579 --> 00:45:07.679 Yes, the book, not one of the many loose reinterpretations. 550 00:45:07.739 --> 00:45:08.940 So the radio play is good. 551 00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:09.960 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 552 00:45:10.019 --> 00:45:10.260 Yeah. 553 00:45:10.320 --> 00:45:11.760 Like, I think that's done very well. 554 00:45:11.820 --> 00:45:19.500 It's Dirk Mags. you know, the same production team behind the later hitchhikers radio plays. 555 00:45:19.559 --> 00:45:24.420 Yes, no, Duck Gently is one of my favourite Adam's books. 556 00:45:24.539 --> 00:45:27.420 It's really good. and it's good. 557 00:45:27.420 --> 00:45:28.619 Part shutter. 558 00:45:28.679 --> 00:45:30.000 Yeah, part city of there. 559 00:45:30.059 --> 00:45:30.659 City of yeah. 560 00:45:30.659 --> 00:45:30.900 Yeah. 561 00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:32.039 Ball Douglas Adams. 562 00:45:32.099 --> 00:45:34.440 It's really great Yes, great stuff. 563 00:45:34.559 --> 00:45:36.119 100% Douglas Adams. 564 00:45:36.179 --> 00:45:38.280 What about you, Peter? 565 00:45:38.340 --> 00:45:59.460 Well, for my part, if you like hard hitting sci-fi and bootstrap paradoxes, you can't go past the sex and the city sequel and just like that, which is... which I actually really enjoy, but is an instructive lesson for how to make every dramatic decision in a series incorrectly. 566 00:45:59.519 --> 00:46:01.139 Go and watch it. 567 00:46:02.639 --> 00:46:04.920 I have and you're right. 568 00:46:04.980 --> 00:46:06.239 Are there robots in it? 569 00:46:06.300 --> 00:46:11.039 I mean, sometimes I think Charlotte, but, you know, remains to be seen. 570 00:46:11.880 --> 00:46:16.199 So my pick of the week is a podcast. 571 00:46:16.260 --> 00:46:39.179 It's called Strong Songs, and in it, a musician called Kirk Hamilton looks at a sort of famous song or an important song and does a musical analysis of it, talks about its history, talks about what is it that makes it great as far as music and performance and instrumentation and things are concerned. 572 00:46:39.420 --> 00:46:44.579 Today, I listen to an episode on killing me softly. 573 00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:57.059 And he looked at 3 versions of that, um, including the one from sort of the 1990s by the Fugees, um, but a few different versions. 574 00:46:57.119 --> 00:47:06.480 There's a wonderful one where he looks at the 2 Dolly Parton versions of I Will Always Love You, followed by the Whitney Houston version, which is incredible. 575 00:47:06.539 --> 00:47:08.820 If you're a genre fan. 576 00:47:08.880 --> 00:47:23.460 He does an episode on the music of Andor, which is an extraordinary TV series where music plays an important role in the actual narrative and his analysis of its music is incredible. 577 00:47:23.519 --> 00:47:29.699 And before the release of Tears of the Kingdom, he did a whole thing on the music of Zelda, which was great as well. 578 00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:31.500 So it's called Strong Songs. 579 00:47:31.559 --> 00:47:32.280 It's a podcast. 580 00:47:32.340 --> 00:47:35.460 He is so enthusiastic and so in love with his subject. 581 00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:38.039 It's such a beautifully produced podcast. 582 00:47:38.099 --> 00:47:40.079 I can't recommend it highly enough. 583 00:47:40.139 --> 00:47:41.219 It's really something. 584 00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:44.039 Well, he's hoping it does an episode on variations on a theme. 585 00:47:47.099 --> 00:47:47.699 Fraser. 586 00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:48.960 What's your pick the week? 587 00:47:49.019 --> 00:47:56.460 Well, if it's musicals you're after, then my pick of the week is the Star Trek series, Strange New Worlds. 588 00:47:57.480 --> 00:48:03.059 I just sat the other day and discovered I've actually got a Paramount Plus subscription. 589 00:48:03.119 --> 00:48:07.320 I don't know how long I've had it for, or where it's come from, or who's actually paying for it? 590 00:48:07.380 --> 00:48:16.500 Me and my wife, but it turned up there on Prime, so I've been bingeing strange new worlds for the last week or so, and I'm absolutely thoroughly enjoying that. 591 00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:18.420 I'm about halfway through series 2 now. 592 00:48:18.480 --> 00:48:21.239 I know the musical episode is coming up, but I'm not quite there yet. 593 00:48:21.300 --> 00:48:28.079 Um, but it's, you know, you talk about like, hitting Doctor Who beats, but this is, this is all the Star Trek beats. 594 00:48:28.139 --> 00:48:30.119 This is everything you want from a Star Trek. 595 00:48:30.179 --> 00:48:33.059 It's, you know, going out and exploring. 596 00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:36.119 It's, you know, it's got all those episodes you want. 597 00:48:36.179 --> 00:48:38.760 They've got the space valuers, they've got the travelling back in time. 598 00:48:38.820 --> 00:48:43.860 They've got the wishes come true and fantasy comes alive on the ships. 599 00:48:43.920 --> 00:48:45.059 You've got everything you want in there. 600 00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:50.340 You've got tons of law thrown in the back, not that one, but like... 601 00:48:50.400 --> 00:48:57.360 You know, you've got, you know, everything that you know is going to come up into Star Trek, which is coming up. 602 00:48:57.420 --> 00:49:19.920 But more than that, it's actually a really well put together. show the story talent can be a little bit breakneck at times, you kind of like, oh, straighten up story and was telling it and we're not actually going to pause, but there is still sort of like loads of character work and loads of stuff the characters are or I'm starting to come to really enjoy some of the characters, the new characters as well. 603 00:49:19.980 --> 00:49:21.059 So that's my recommendation. 604 00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:25.619 If you haven't done it already, if you start rec fun. out and explore strange new worlds. 605 00:49:25.679 --> 00:49:29.159 How I wish we'd gotten a musical from Star Trek Voyager. 606 00:49:30.239 --> 00:49:32.340 The 3 Roberts. 607 00:49:32.400 --> 00:49:38.699 Yeah, the 3 Roberts, a close harmony group of the best Robert, the medium Robert, and the worst Robert. 608 00:49:38.760 --> 00:49:39.960 It would be really something. 609 00:49:40.019 --> 00:49:41.159 Neelix's solo. 610 00:50:08.219 --> 00:50:11.159 Well, Melissa, that's all the time we have for this week. 611 00:50:11.219 --> 00:50:16.199 We'll be back next week for some comedy Viking hygienes in The Girl Who Died. 612 00:50:16.679 --> 00:50:34.199 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us on our website, FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find all our social media links, as well as links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody InterTera, Maximum Power, and Untitled Star Trek project. 613 00:50:34.260 --> 00:50:39.059 Until next time, remember that Saturday is treat day. 614 00:50:39.119 --> 00:50:41.699 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 615 00:50:41.760 --> 00:50:42.719 Good night. 616 00:50:42.780 --> 00:50:43.559 Good night. 617 00:50:43.619 --> 00:50:44.400 Good night. 618 00:50:50.460 --> 00:50:55.380 That was this flight through entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Fraser, Gregory, Peter Griffiths, and James Selwood. 619 00:50:55.440 --> 00:50:57.599 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. 620 00:50:57.659 --> 00:51:03.960 This episode, Scottish Reasons, was recorded on the 13th of August 2023 and released on the 8th of October. 621 00:51:04.860 --> 00:51:10.920 The lake in this story might seem unrealistically deep, but the next time you watch Battlefield. 622 00:51:10.980 --> 00:51:16.980 Remember that Dos Marie pool in Cornwall, where the lady of the lake came from, is three metres deep at most. 623 00:51:17.039 --> 00:51:20.280 Team, educational and entertaining. 624 00:51:26.340 --> 00:51:27.780 That's brilliant. 625 00:51:27.840 --> 00:51:28.380 Do you know what? 626 00:51:28.440 --> 00:51:30.539 That was my bigger than work. 627 00:51:30.539 --> 00:51:39.480 The, um, the, um, uh, uh, the which is familiar because I think it's incredible. 628 00:51:39.539 --> 00:51:47.159 I think we should remind everyone every 2 weeks on Flattery Tiny that they should be watching straight 2 worlds because they think it's incredible. 629 00:51:47.219 --> 00:51:48.360 It's so good. 630 00:51:48.420 --> 00:51:49.199 I love it so much. 631 00:51:49.260 --> 00:51:53.039 Hey, Doctor Who fans, go and watch Star Trek instead. 632 00:51:53.099 --> 00:51:54.539 What was the episode before that? 633 00:51:54.599 --> 00:51:55.800 Was that a comedy one? 634 00:51:55.980 --> 00:52:01.920 Before that was Spock sex comedy, the annual Spock sex comedy? 635 00:52:01.980 --> 00:52:07.920 No, the one before that episode was where, ah, I can't remember her name takes over the ship. 636 00:52:07.980 --> 00:52:09.539 Oh, Serene School. 637 00:52:09.539 --> 00:52:11.460 Yeah, she's amazing. far out. 638 00:52:11.519 --> 00:52:20.579 Yeah, it's just kind of like such a pivot from like, in general, genre and tone from one episode, because I've been watching, I watch it about 2 and 8. 639 00:52:20.639 --> 00:52:25.679 The 1st series like binged 2 and a go and it was just like, this is a bit whiplash, but you know what? 640 00:52:25.739 --> 00:52:29.039 It's absolutely... everything. 641 00:52:29.099 --> 00:52:30.900 Yeah, that's what you want. 642 00:52:30.960 --> 00:52:34.559 It's just so refreshing to have a Star Trek again that is just episodic. 643 00:52:35.519 --> 00:52:37.500 You know, that you can't just... 644 00:52:37.559 --> 00:52:40.500 Yeah, the thing about Strangely Road is that the characters are so immediate as well. 645 00:52:40.559 --> 00:52:43.019 Yeah, like and know all of them from the off. 646 00:52:43.079 --> 00:52:44.820 They're so relaxed. 647 00:52:44.880 --> 00:52:49.139 Like they're so well played and so relaxed and so real. 648 00:52:49.260 --> 00:52:52.320 They inhabit, they inhabit their characters really well, don't they? 649 00:52:52.380 --> 00:53:08.280 You know, the thing, this is my theory, that everyone has such PTSD from series one and 2 of Star Trek, the Next Generation, that they decide that they raise the floor by just saying we're going to do this every week. 650 00:53:08.280 --> 00:53:12.900 And they don't raise the ceiling like, oh, maybe they do. 651 00:53:12.960 --> 00:53:24.719 There's some pretty great episodes there, but there's a sameness to Star Trek the Next Generation, which I think that Strangely Worlds is such a better version of Star Trek than that. 652 00:53:25.500 --> 00:53:27.420 Just because it does everything. 653 00:53:27.719 --> 00:53:39.960 I mean, there was a bit of an issue in as much as that there's only 10 episodes long, so you have to kind of, you've got half of the length of like a, a DSNA, the next generation says you've got like squish everything. 654 00:53:40.079 --> 00:53:40.739 Not even that. 655 00:53:40.800 --> 00:53:43.440 It's like less than half because they're like 26 episodes long. 656 00:53:43.500 --> 00:53:51.239 Yeah, I want episodes like the price. don't we get them Oh, did you see, you haven't seen the lower decks trailer? 657 00:53:51.300 --> 00:53:52.019 No. 658 00:53:52.079 --> 00:54:00.000 So the lower decks trailer for season two, there's a scene in the price where Beverly and Deanna are in... 659 00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:04.079 As a limb doing in the in the gym doing jazz size in these outfits. 660 00:54:04.139 --> 00:54:22.019 And there's a scene in the in the lower deck series 4 trailer where Shacks and Ransom are wearing exactly the same things, sitting opposite one another, doing splits, literally wearing the same outfits, the same colour, everything. 661 00:54:22.079 --> 00:54:24.480 Like it's absolutely 100% that. 662 00:54:24.539 --> 00:54:28.139 Oh, are you watching Lower Decks, Fraser? 663 00:54:28.199 --> 00:54:28.980 I've not. 664 00:54:29.039 --> 00:54:29.579 I've not. 665 00:54:29.639 --> 00:54:32.099 I've watched the 1st episode. 666 00:54:32.099 --> 00:54:34.079 Oh, this is a bit. 667 00:54:34.139 --> 00:54:36.300 No, I was with you, Fraser. 668 00:54:36.360 --> 00:54:38.219 This is a bit like keep going. 669 00:54:38.280 --> 00:54:41.760 Star Trek was Family Guy, which was a bit of a... 670 00:54:41.820 --> 00:54:44.039 But it's actually properly Star Trek. 671 00:54:44.099 --> 00:54:46.440 Like it has real proper Star Trek. 672 00:54:46.500 --> 00:54:50.579 Things like it makes fun of Star Trek, but it does proper Star Trek episodes in a way. 673 00:54:50.639 --> 00:54:53.219 And wait till you see them come on board. 674 00:54:53.280 --> 00:55:03.659 I was going to say, I'm going to have to because I know there's a crossover episode. coming up and cutting up with a couple of nights time for us, so I'm going to have to get into it before... 675 00:55:03.659 --> 00:55:07.199 When are they going to their Deep Space 9 crossover, lower Dax, lower Dax.