WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 14:09:39 1 00:00:40.500 --> 00:00:44.939 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight to Entirety, the 2 00:00:44.939 --> 00:00:48.659 only Doctor Who podcast that until 30 minutes ago thought those 3 00:00:48.659 --> 00:00:51.539 chonky robot boys were actually robots. 4 00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:53.340 Well, I did anyway. 5 00:00:53.399 --> 00:00:54.359 I'm Nathan. 6 00:00:54.420 --> 00:00:55.740 I'm Brendan. 7 00:00:55.799 --> 00:00:56.820 I'm James. 8 00:00:56.939 --> 00:00:58.439 And I'm Stacy. 9 00:00:58.500 --> 00:01:02.520 Well, we're back in the past this week doing what the past does 10 00:01:02.520 --> 00:01:06.299 best, being a rich, well realised backdrop for some top quality 11 00:01:06.299 --> 00:01:08.040 Doctor Who skylarking. 12 00:01:08.099 --> 00:01:11.400 It's the doctor and a bunch of comedy Vikings versus some big 13 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:13.319 stupid monsters with lots of teeth. 14 00:01:13.379 --> 00:01:18.299 So let's see who wins, who loses, and who's stupid enough to take 15 00:01:18.299 --> 00:01:21.659 odds on the outcome in The Girl Who Died. 16 00:01:34.379 --> 00:01:38.400 I'm having a little bit of a Todd experience with this one, I have 17 00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:38.760 to say. 18 00:01:38.819 --> 00:01:44.760 I said earlier that series 9 was my least well-known bit of Doctor 19 00:01:44.760 --> 00:01:47.400 Who and the one that I'd kind of never gone back to. 20 00:01:47.579 --> 00:01:52.500 And watching this and next week's episode. 21 00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:58.379 I think this is extremely good, Doctor Who, and that next week's 22 00:01:58.379 --> 00:02:01.019 is kind of in quite a different way. 23 00:02:01.079 --> 00:02:04.859 What's been your story with series 9, Stacy? 24 00:02:04.920 --> 00:02:08.219 Yeah, I had a similar thing at the beginning that I sort of 25 00:02:08.219 --> 00:02:11.039 watched it and couldn't really keep it in my head, and then when I 26 00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:13.259 was writing who was the doctor too, we had to kind of watch 27 00:02:13.259 --> 00:02:16.080 everything, and I think I was living in Cameroun at the time, and 28 00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:19.620 I've got the DVDs, and I'm trying to like get through Doctor Who 29 00:02:19.620 --> 00:02:22.919 and I got no internet, and I got to this, and I was like, this is 30 00:02:22.919 --> 00:02:23.580 this is really good. 31 00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:25.500 Like, what is this gem? 32 00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:26.639 Like, this is this is amazing. 33 00:02:26.699 --> 00:02:29.039 I feel broadly the same about series 9. 34 00:02:29.099 --> 00:02:31.439 I think that like it rewards repeated viewings. 35 00:02:31.500 --> 00:02:34.080 So it was maybe a bit weak, sort of the 1st round, but there's so 36 00:02:34.080 --> 00:02:35.219 many layers in there. 37 00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:38.280 Like, I miss the hybrid stuff. you know, they say, 0 my gosh, a 38 00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:40.740 hybrid, like they're, you know, driving a Prius every week. 39 00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:43.199 And I didn't even notice until like the end. 40 00:02:43.319 --> 00:02:45.479 I was like, oh, yeah, there's a hybrid around, you know, that 41 00:02:45.479 --> 00:02:45.719 stuff. 42 00:02:45.780 --> 00:02:49.020 So stuff is layered, but I think more subtly than probably it 43 00:02:49.020 --> 00:02:49.319 should be. 44 00:02:49.379 --> 00:02:52.500 So that's, you know, terrible for 1st time viewers, great for long 45 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:52.860 term viewers. 46 00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:54.240 So, you know, Y for fans, I guess. 47 00:02:54.300 --> 00:02:57.060 I absolutely adore this story particularly. 48 00:02:57.120 --> 00:02:59.699 I just, I find it's my Uber Doctor Who. 49 00:02:59.759 --> 00:03:02.400 Like it is just absolutely everything I want from Doctor Who is 50 00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:03.659 right here in this one single story. 51 00:03:03.780 --> 00:03:08.099 And it seems very much designed that way, doesn't it? 52 00:03:08.159 --> 00:03:12.479 It's a Doctor Who story where Clara, in particular, is aware of 53 00:03:12.479 --> 00:03:15.900 the tropes that constitute a Doctor Who story and where the doctor 54 00:03:15.900 --> 00:03:19.800 is as well, and she's the one noticing the beats as they happen. 55 00:03:19.860 --> 00:03:21.599 You know, the doctor doesn't have a plan. 56 00:03:21.659 --> 00:03:25.199 He's doing a thing that's not going to work and that isn't 57 00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:29.219 consistent with his character, then he has an aha moment which she 58 00:03:29.219 --> 00:03:30.659 actually spots happening. 59 00:03:30.719 --> 00:03:35.219 And then it becomes the Doctor Who that we love, which is we beat 60 00:03:35.219 --> 00:03:38.939 the monsters by being nicer and sillier than them. 61 00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:41.099 And having a worse special effect. 62 00:03:41.159 --> 00:03:43.080 It's amazing. 63 00:03:45.780 --> 00:03:50.879 There's that beautiful moment, speaking of that, where, you know 64 00:03:50.879 --> 00:03:54.479 he's he's given up his, you know, he's got, we just have to leave 65 00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:56.099 like, you know, these people are going to die. 66 00:03:56.159 --> 00:04:02.099 And then they're talking and he's listening to the baby crying and 67 00:04:02.099 --> 00:04:06.719 then baby stops crying and he's decided to stay. 68 00:04:06.780 --> 00:04:10.319 But I think it's a bit after he's decided to leave. 69 00:04:10.379 --> 00:04:13.740 What he has decided to do is lead them into a battle and give them 70 00:04:13.740 --> 00:04:17.399 a glorious death and that's the best that he can do. 71 00:04:17.459 --> 00:04:20.220 And then when he hears the baby, Clara. 72 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:22.019 That's when Clara put her hand to his face. 73 00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:23.819 Is that what you're talking about? 74 00:04:23.879 --> 00:04:27.540 Yeah, because there is a point where he's going to leave when he's 75 00:04:27.540 --> 00:04:32.040 in the meeting with the villagers and then he kind of decides to 76 00:04:32.040 --> 00:04:33.660 stay when he hears the baby as well. 77 00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:37.620 I kind of feel like it runs, it runs through some, like, very 78 00:04:37.620 --> 00:04:38.819 doctor who he tropes, right? 79 00:04:38.939 --> 00:04:40.980 like, you know, the beginning of Doctor Who, you know, is 80 00:04:40.980 --> 00:04:43.860 basically like, there's pacifists and we have to like stand up and 81 00:04:43.860 --> 00:04:44.459 fight, right? 82 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:45.540 That sort of like the bar legs. 83 00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:48.360 And then you get to Patrick Trotton era, and it's like, you know 84 00:04:48.360 --> 00:04:49.259 evil must be flawed, right? 85 00:04:49.319 --> 00:04:52.139 And so it's kind of like, you know, the doctor's 1st approach is 86 00:04:52.139 --> 00:04:53.220 like, you should all just run away. 87 00:04:53.220 --> 00:04:54.180 And that doesn't work. 88 00:04:54.240 --> 00:04:56.040 So he's like, okay, now we're going to stand and fight. 89 00:04:56.100 --> 00:04:57.120 And that doesn't work either. 90 00:04:57.180 --> 00:04:59.759 And what they're looking for is what you're saying. like, there's 91 00:04:59.759 --> 00:05:02.040 a moment where it's going to be this unexpected 3rd way. 92 00:05:02.100 --> 00:05:03.660 Like, we're not going to do the expected thing. 93 00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:06.720 And Clara knows that's coming and the doctor knows it's going to 94 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:08.339 happen even though he has no idea what it's going to be. 95 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:11.399 And you're right. there's that moment, you can see it, and it's 96 00:05:11.399 --> 00:05:13.319 like, it's really shutting behind the curtain, how Doctor Who 97 00:05:13.319 --> 00:05:13.860 works, I think. 98 00:05:14.699 --> 00:05:20.220 And it does something that a few other scripts in this era do 99 00:05:20.220 --> 00:05:25.019 where the opening teas is setting up the premise of the episode 100 00:05:25.019 --> 00:05:28.620 because they've just liberated some other planet, and, you know 101 00:05:28.620 --> 00:05:31.319 Clara's been in the spider mines for too long and she's got a love 102 00:05:31.319 --> 00:05:34.319 bug that's going to suck her brain out through her face, et cetera 103 00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:34.680 et cetera. 104 00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:39.540 Um, and Clara raises the question, what happens to people after we 105 00:05:39.540 --> 00:05:40.079 save them? 106 00:05:40.139 --> 00:05:43.379 And the doctor's like, well, you know, I can't do everything. 107 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:44.879 I can just give people a chance. 108 00:05:44.939 --> 00:05:50.579 And then this story, the overarching story sort of explores how 109 00:05:50.579 --> 00:05:54.959 that works when you take away the TARDIS, you take away the sonic 110 00:05:54.959 --> 00:06:01.199 sunglasses and all you have is the local technology, local 111 00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:05.939 knowledge, and people at your disposal and can, you know, can that 112 00:06:05.939 --> 00:06:10.439 still work, which is, Yeah, it is doctor in microcosm. you know 113 00:06:10.439 --> 00:06:12.360 saving the universe with a kettle and some string. 114 00:06:12.420 --> 00:06:13.199 Yeah. 115 00:06:13.259 --> 00:06:16.740 What's funny is it reminds me of Frontios. 116 00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:17.220 Remember? 117 00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:21.839 Frontios has this thing, which is never kind of mentioned before 118 00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:25.620 and never comes up again, that the doctor shouldn't be interfering 119 00:06:25.620 --> 00:06:28.439 in Frontios because it's, you know, on the boundaries of our 120 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:28.860 knowledge. 121 00:06:28.920 --> 00:06:33.300 It's far, far in the future, and he can't interfere because 122 00:06:33.300 --> 00:06:37.439 whatever he does will have massive ramifications. 123 00:06:37.500 --> 00:06:40.259 And then he interferes anyway and just tells them not to tell 124 00:06:40.259 --> 00:06:40.680 anyone. 125 00:06:42.420 --> 00:06:46.920 And so here the problem is it's not the usual sort of fixed point 126 00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:48.839 in time or any of that sort of nonsense. 127 00:06:48.899 --> 00:06:55.019 The idea is that he can only do things he says that cause ripples 128 00:06:55.019 --> 00:06:58.620 rather than causing big waves. 129 00:06:58.680 --> 00:07:01.259 And so that's initially why he wants to leave. 130 00:07:01.319 --> 00:07:05.339 Remember, that's how he couches what happens if the Maya gets 131 00:07:05.339 --> 00:07:11.040 beaten in battle by the villagers, that that causes enough ways to 132 00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:13.980 potentially change history. 133 00:07:14.040 --> 00:07:16.920 And it just sort of turns out that making fun of the Maya is 134 00:07:16.920 --> 00:07:17.699 fine. 135 00:07:17.759 --> 00:07:20.220 And they'll just sort of go away with their tails between their 136 00:07:20.220 --> 00:07:21.959 legs and we're okay. 137 00:07:22.019 --> 00:07:26.699 Um, so here where we're doing that, we're looking at what the 138 00:07:26.699 --> 00:07:33.240 doctor normally does and what the consequences are. in a way that 139 00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:35.399 we probably haven't done since the specials. 140 00:07:35.459 --> 00:07:39.839 And I think this does a better job of that, perhaps than the 141 00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:40.860 specials. 142 00:07:40.920 --> 00:07:44.279 Yeah, I think that opening teaser is, like you say, it's this 143 00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:46.740 little microcosm of Doctor Who story that happens in like 2 144 00:07:46.740 --> 00:07:47.040 minutes. 145 00:07:47.100 --> 00:07:49.920 And I love that it kind of, it makes the point that like we just 146 00:07:49.920 --> 00:07:50.399 leave it hanging. 147 00:07:50.459 --> 00:07:52.439 It's like, no, we solve the problem today. 148 00:07:52.500 --> 00:07:53.519 Yeah, they can come back. 149 00:07:53.579 --> 00:07:55.379 Like, you know, they're always going to come back. 150 00:07:55.439 --> 00:07:57.779 This is not a I wiped them from the universe because they come 151 00:07:57.779 --> 00:07:58.860 back anywhere even when he does that. 152 00:07:58.920 --> 00:08:01.259 So it's kind of like, this is it. 153 00:08:01.319 --> 00:08:03.899 It's kind of like, yeah, I feel like it's like Tom Baker and 154 00:08:03.899 --> 00:08:05.939 Santara Experiment being like, not today, thank you. 155 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:08.160 And it's kind of like, that's Doctor Who, right? 156 00:08:08.220 --> 00:08:10.980 It's like, yeah, you know, if you try again, I'll stop you next 157 00:08:10.980 --> 00:08:11.399 time too. 158 00:08:12.660 --> 00:08:16.500 I'm getting some incredible Tom Baker vibes from Capaldi in this 159 00:08:16.500 --> 00:08:17.279 episode as well. 160 00:08:17.339 --> 00:08:19.620 Like really, really strong, I think. 161 00:08:19.860 --> 00:08:23.519 So this season seems to be examining who the doctor is. 162 00:08:23.579 --> 00:08:26.459 And so we go back and relitigate the Daleks and genesis of the 163 00:08:26.459 --> 00:08:28.560 Daleks in the 1st 2 parter. 164 00:08:28.620 --> 00:08:33.419 In the 2nd 2 part, we see the doctor in sort of Patrick Trouton 165 00:08:33.419 --> 00:08:35.460 style, base under siege. 166 00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:39.240 It doesn't really go much beyond that, I think, but it at least 167 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:44.940 gets us seeing the doctor do very doctor-ish things and Capaldi 168 00:08:44.940 --> 00:08:46.139 doing them in particular. 169 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:49.379 But here I think there's a real proper analysis of what the doctor 170 00:08:49.379 --> 00:08:52.019 does and how he beats his enemies. 171 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:56.340 It's that weird thing that almost breaks the show, isn't it? 172 00:08:56.399 --> 00:08:58.799 Where Clara says you always win. 173 00:08:58.860 --> 00:09:02.940 You always win, and that's what you're good at, win, you know, go 174 00:09:02.940 --> 00:09:05.340 and win because that's what you do best. 175 00:09:05.399 --> 00:09:08.639 But I think, I think it's how he wins. 176 00:09:08.700 --> 00:09:12.120 That's the important thing that that's established. 177 00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:15.419 And it's a sort of homesy thing, isn't it? 178 00:09:15.480 --> 00:09:18.480 The we win by being more fun than the villains. 179 00:09:18.539 --> 00:09:22.440 Yeah, I mean, I find it interesting that that, I mean, it's like 180 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:24.899 yes, the doctor always wins, but there's usually like a cost paid 181 00:09:24.899 --> 00:09:25.080 right? 182 00:09:25.139 --> 00:09:26.519 And even in the previous story, right? 183 00:09:26.580 --> 00:09:30.360 It's like, you know, like basically like O'Donnell, you know, dies 184 00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:33.120 along the way, and this is very tragic and so on, but it's sort of 185 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:34.500 like, well, that's just how Doctor Who is. 186 00:09:34.559 --> 00:09:36.059 You can't really do anything about that. 187 00:09:36.120 --> 00:09:38.759 And this time around, they spend a lot of time establishing all 188 00:09:38.759 --> 00:09:40.980 the trips in Doctor Who, and then they go and break the rules. 189 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:43.200 And it's really clear that last 6 minutes. 190 00:09:43.259 --> 00:09:44.700 They're like, oh, we're throwing it all out. 191 00:09:44.759 --> 00:09:47.399 We have shown you piece by piece, how it all works, and then we're 192 00:09:47.399 --> 00:09:50.220 going to throw the whole thing away, and we are breaking the rules 193 00:09:50.220 --> 00:09:53.100 and we are keeping the guest character alive this time, and we're 194 00:09:53.100 --> 00:09:54.059 going to see what happens now. 195 00:09:54.120 --> 00:09:55.559 It's disaster. 196 00:09:55.620 --> 00:09:58.620 I mean, it even breaks the episode itself. 197 00:09:58.679 --> 00:10:00.779 The episode is called The Girl Who Died. 198 00:10:00.779 --> 00:10:04.799 And the couple goes, well, I don't care what the episode title 199 00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:05.220 is. 200 00:10:05.220 --> 00:10:06.960 She's not going to die. 201 00:10:07.019 --> 00:10:09.720 And in a way as well. 202 00:10:09.779 --> 00:10:11.700 This... 203 00:10:11.700 --> 00:10:17.700 A shield is deaf and Clara's death are bound very closely 204 00:10:17.700 --> 00:10:18.419 together. 205 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:26.220 And so Sheldon will appear in 4 episodes this season, 3 or four 206 00:10:26.220 --> 00:10:26.519 right? 207 00:10:26.820 --> 00:10:31.500 And in the 3rd episode, like we see her going through the future 208 00:10:31.500 --> 00:10:32.100 don't we? 209 00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:36.179 We finally see her at the very end of the universe and she's still 210 00:10:36.179 --> 00:10:37.139 with us. 211 00:10:37.139 --> 00:10:41.700 But doing this tuition does lead to Clarence Dare. 212 00:10:42.179 --> 00:10:47.159 And um, something else that is interesting about that for me is, of 213 00:10:47.159 --> 00:10:50.820 course, the doctor here is motivated by um, Lofty's crying baby. 214 00:10:50.820 --> 00:10:58.860 And when, when um, we do see a shilder again in the modern day and 215 00:10:58.860 --> 00:11:02.220 the moments leading up to Clara's death and the doctor is railing 216 00:11:02.220 --> 00:11:06.179 against that and saying that his, I think he uses the phrase reign 217 00:11:06.179 --> 00:11:09.419 of terror, actually, like my reign of terror, no, no bounds, and 218 00:11:09.419 --> 00:11:11.820 Clara's response is, your reign of terror will stop at the 1st 219 00:11:11.820 --> 00:11:12.419 crying child. 220 00:11:14.100 --> 00:11:18.419 And, you know, it was only watching this a 2nd time that I kind of 221 00:11:18.419 --> 00:11:19.679 got that link. 222 00:11:19.799 --> 00:11:22.559 And it's actually why things like things in the day of the doctor 223 00:11:22.559 --> 00:11:25.500 with Clara often asked me if I dream and it's like, well, that has 224 00:11:25.500 --> 00:11:25.740 not. 225 00:11:25.799 --> 00:11:26.820 No, she hasn't. 226 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:28.200 She hasn't asked you that once. 227 00:11:28.259 --> 00:11:30.779 And it's like, I love it when the production team can weave this 228 00:11:30.779 --> 00:11:35.100 stuff through in just sort of natural moments and then pick up on 229 00:11:35.100 --> 00:11:35.759 it later. 230 00:11:35.820 --> 00:11:40.740 And it's important in this episode, but it is such a devastatingly 231 00:11:40.740 --> 00:11:44.159 clever line in the later episode as well. 232 00:11:44.220 --> 00:11:48.720 And I do remember like at the time this went out, and of course 233 00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:52.440 Maisie Williams, hugely popular in Game of Thrones, there were 234 00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:56.220 people who were very critical of her performance in this, and I 235 00:11:56.220 --> 00:11:59.279 didn't get that at the time, and I don't get it now. 236 00:11:59.340 --> 00:12:04.200 I think she is brilliant and subtle and witty and likeable. 237 00:12:04.259 --> 00:12:06.720 And I think everyone just wanted to run like running around with a 238 00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:08.820 sword and stabbing things like she does in Game of Thrones. 239 00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:10.860 But it's like she's an actor. 240 00:12:10.919 --> 00:12:12.480 She can do other things. 241 00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:17.580 Yeah, but I think I think partly the backlashes because of that 242 00:12:17.580 --> 00:12:19.799 but also that's a very deliberate choice. 243 00:12:19.860 --> 00:12:22.559 The character is a different character every time you see her. 244 00:12:22.620 --> 00:12:24.720 Here, she is a child. 245 00:12:24.779 --> 00:12:29.820 She is a teenager and she is innocent and afraid. 246 00:12:29.879 --> 00:12:35.340 And then when you see her next week, you know, she, it's been what 247 00:12:35.340 --> 00:12:41.700 800 years, and she can't remember her past or what it was to love 248 00:12:41.700 --> 00:12:45.899 or or have, you know, human emotion, basically. 249 00:12:45.960 --> 00:12:50.039 And then when you meet her again later in the season, she's become 250 00:12:50.039 --> 00:12:55.919 something else again, in response to what the doctor's done to 251 00:12:55.919 --> 00:12:56.100 her. 252 00:12:56.159 --> 00:13:01.320 Like, it's a really actually quite a strong progression through 253 00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:03.899 those different characters for her, I think. 254 00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:06.720 Well, I think they play that out in the final scene, right? 255 00:13:06.779 --> 00:13:09.120 When you see her face, you know, the background spinning around 256 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:13.200 she gets from sort of happy to angry to determine, and it just 257 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:13.919 looks on her face. 258 00:13:13.980 --> 00:13:16.320 Like the face is not cutting away there. 259 00:13:16.379 --> 00:13:19.200 Yeah, it's really good, isn't it? 260 00:13:19.259 --> 00:13:21.360 Because we're going around her. 261 00:13:21.480 --> 00:13:24.059 Like we're going around her with the background. 262 00:13:24.120 --> 00:13:25.799 And the 1st time we see her, she's happy. 263 00:13:25.860 --> 00:13:28.740 Then we go around her back and then we see her and she's sadder 264 00:13:28.740 --> 00:13:32.639 and then the camera just goes straight on her face and doesn't let 265 00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:38.039 go and that's where we see a real change in her expression. 266 00:13:38.100 --> 00:13:39.360 Yeah, she kind of hardens. 267 00:13:39.419 --> 00:13:40.440 Yeah. 268 00:13:40.500 --> 00:13:43.139 And then we get, and then we get to be continued. 269 00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:48.539 So that sets her up as something really quite terrifying and we 270 00:13:48.539 --> 00:13:49.980 don't quite know why. 271 00:13:50.039 --> 00:13:54.179 But I think the thing that she does is she tracks the doctor. 272 00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:59.639 And so next week, we will see how much like the doctor she is. 273 00:13:59.700 --> 00:14:06.240 And then, um, and then the following time, in Face the Raven, she 274 00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:10.980 has devoted herself to staying behind to help the people that the 275 00:14:10.980 --> 00:14:14.940 doctor leaves behind when he, um, runs off at the end of an 276 00:14:14.940 --> 00:14:15.360 episode. 277 00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:18.840 And, and you know the moment, there's a moment where he's got his 278 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:22.139 2000 year diary in this and he's been looking up the mire. 279 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:27.480 And I just couldn't help thinking of Ashildi's journal of me's 280 00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:28.919 journal, the following episode. 281 00:14:28.980 --> 00:14:33.480 You know, both of them have been alive for so long that they have 282 00:14:33.480 --> 00:14:37.799 to rely on written words on a page in order to just remind 283 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:40.320 themselves of what's been happening. 284 00:14:40.379 --> 00:14:45.000 And that's kind of the 1st hint of that here, but we won't see it 285 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:46.080 pay off till next week. 286 00:14:46.139 --> 00:14:48.840 Well, he gives it that look at the beginning, right? 287 00:14:48.899 --> 00:14:51.960 When he enters the village and he catches and he's, you can tell 288 00:14:51.960 --> 00:14:54.600 he's like, I know, I know this person from somewhere and it's so 289 00:14:54.600 --> 00:14:58.320 obvious he's recognised her from his life, but he hasn't quite 290 00:14:58.320 --> 00:14:58.980 clued in. 291 00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:02.580 And then he's like, I know you from somewhere, and then he let at 292 00:15:02.580 --> 00:15:03.779 the end, he's realised why he knows her. 293 00:15:03.779 --> 00:15:08.820 There's a moment too, where he's talking with Clara and says 294 00:15:08.820 --> 00:15:13.440 something about immortality and then a shilde breaks into the 295 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:13.980 conversation. 296 00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:15.539 Yeah, yeah. 297 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:18.600 And so it's that thing. 298 00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:19.980 And I think it's a very moffity thing. 299 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:22.919 Like, I think this is a very Matheson script, but it's a very 300 00:15:22.919 --> 00:15:26.100 moffety thing to do that sort of throwaway idea that premonition 301 00:15:26.100 --> 00:15:28.259 is just remembering things in the wrong order. 302 00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:30.840 There's no that Moffat didn't write that. 303 00:15:30.899 --> 00:15:33.240 And so he's just remembered things backwards. 304 00:15:33.299 --> 00:15:36.659 Her becoming immortal, has repercussions into the past as well as 305 00:15:36.659 --> 00:15:38.399 into the into the future. 306 00:15:38.519 --> 00:15:43.320 And I think that's really just excellent. 307 00:15:43.379 --> 00:15:46.860 And, and I mean, why does he save her? 308 00:15:46.860 --> 00:15:49.919 And it seems to me that he saves her because he's thinking of 309 00:15:49.919 --> 00:15:50.580 Clara. 310 00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:52.379 He says that, doesn't he? 311 00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:55.860 That look on your face and the anger and kindness and there's 312 00:15:55.860 --> 00:15:59.399 going to be a day where, you know, even remembering them hurts me 313 00:15:59.399 --> 00:16:01.080 so much. barely breathe. 314 00:16:01.139 --> 00:16:04.019 And that's why he saved her. 315 00:16:04.860 --> 00:16:11.580 Like, a show is a storyteller, a writer, and the Moffat thing is 316 00:16:11.580 --> 00:16:13.919 isn't it, to say, we're telling a story. 317 00:16:13.980 --> 00:16:16.200 Actually, no, that story is not good enough. 318 00:16:16.259 --> 00:16:18.899 Let's tell another one and it happens twice here. 319 00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:22.200 You know, the story is, the doctor trains them all up and they 320 00:16:22.200 --> 00:16:26.100 horribly defeat the Maya in some terrible way, like, because it's 321 00:16:26.100 --> 00:16:27.240 never going to be, they all get killed. 322 00:16:27.299 --> 00:16:28.620 That's not going to happen to Doctor Who story. 323 00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:31.980 But like they fight the Maya and then for some stupid reason they 324 00:16:31.980 --> 00:16:32.279 win. 325 00:16:32.340 --> 00:16:34.320 Then we go, no, actually forget that. 326 00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:36.960 Let's do the story where they make fun of the Maya. 327 00:16:37.019 --> 00:16:42.899 And Shilda does what the story title promises dies for the sake of 328 00:16:42.899 --> 00:16:44.519 the town that she loves. 329 00:16:44.580 --> 00:16:47.039 And then we go actually, no, no, let's not do that. 330 00:16:47.100 --> 00:16:51.120 Let's let her live because Clara, I think. 331 00:16:51.539 --> 00:16:56.519 The story did have an interesting development in regards to that. 332 00:16:56.580 --> 00:17:02.580 It was originally called Valkyrie, and the idea was that the Maya 333 00:17:02.580 --> 00:17:07.740 would actually abduct all the women in the village to crossbreed 334 00:17:07.740 --> 00:17:09.539 with them, thus creating hybrids. 335 00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:16.019 And yeah, yeah, there was a there was a collective squirm just 336 00:17:16.019 --> 00:17:16.319 there. 337 00:17:16.380 --> 00:17:20.519 And reading between the lines and the complete history. 338 00:17:20.700 --> 00:17:24.960 Moffat went, um, one, Jamie, I think you've gone a bit literal on 339 00:17:24.960 --> 00:17:28.380 the hybrid thing and to also just no. 340 00:17:28.859 --> 00:17:33.359 So that then became flipped on its head. because they started 341 00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:37.500 discussing doing a dad's army story with like, you know, the 342 00:17:37.500 --> 00:17:38.400 Vikings left behind. 343 00:17:38.460 --> 00:17:40.799 It's like, okay, well, for that, they need to abduct the men and 344 00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:45.480 they need, you know, Odin needs to drink a shot of testosterone 345 00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:49.019 and adrenaline, which is just like... 346 00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:50.640 And nothing sucks. 347 00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:55.259 It was at that point, like, it had a number of working titles. 348 00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:57.180 The 1st one was Valkyrie. 349 00:17:57.240 --> 00:18:00.119 The 2nd was The All Fathers Army. 350 00:18:00.180 --> 00:18:01.619 Oh no. 351 00:18:03.180 --> 00:18:06.059 And then it became Ragnarok. 352 00:18:06.660 --> 00:18:08.940 That's been a working title before. 353 00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:13.500 Yeah, which that version of the script is much closer, but there's 354 00:18:13.500 --> 00:18:18.059 still a few differences where instead of using the emergency 355 00:18:18.059 --> 00:18:21.119 medical kit, the doctor takes her to Khan. 356 00:18:21.180 --> 00:18:22.859 Oh okay. 357 00:18:24.420 --> 00:18:27.119 We could always do with more Claire Higgins. 358 00:18:27.180 --> 00:18:28.259 Yes. 359 00:18:28.980 --> 00:18:33.059 Yeah, I find this really interesting because I think fundamentally 360 00:18:33.059 --> 00:18:35.339 the episode is about storytelling, right? 361 00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:39.059 And it's about, you know, like you've got like a shilder who is 362 00:18:39.059 --> 00:18:43.680 the storyteller, but then also you puncture the Myra's story of 363 00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:46.920 like how fierce they are. and so on with like a really terrible 364 00:18:46.920 --> 00:18:50.460 story. like, um, and I love that they kind of like they take like 365 00:18:50.460 --> 00:18:53.579 this new series effect, like this, this disguising a classic 366 00:18:53.579 --> 00:18:54.299 series effect. 367 00:18:54.420 --> 00:18:56.220 Like, I just feel like that's such great things. 368 00:18:56.279 --> 00:18:58.619 And it kind of says, yeah, Doctor Who works really well, but it's 369 00:18:58.619 --> 00:19:02.220 kind of like, you know, classic series storytelling and and like 370 00:19:02.220 --> 00:19:03.299 you know, just how powerful that is. 371 00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:04.680 And I just, I absolutely adore this. 372 00:19:04.740 --> 00:19:11.160 And every episode so far has been about telling stories. 373 00:19:11.220 --> 00:19:13.859 Like magician's apprentice and which is familiar is all about the 374 00:19:13.859 --> 00:19:18.480 function of the companions and the villains and also the doctor 375 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:24.359 teaching Davros the idea of mercy through a parable of himself 376 00:19:24.359 --> 00:19:25.200 which is kind of weird. 377 00:19:25.259 --> 00:19:30.000 Then you've got the Fisher King who gets into your brain using the 378 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:32.759 written word and makes you tell his story. 379 00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:35.640 And the doctor even says to the fisher king last week. is where 380 00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:36.539 your story ends. 381 00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:43.259 So yeah, it's been very literary and analytical of Doctor Who so 382 00:19:43.259 --> 00:19:44.460 far this season. 383 00:19:44.519 --> 00:19:48.539 And I do remember at the time I kind of thinking, I wonder, you 384 00:19:48.539 --> 00:19:52.799 know, what the people who don't own the Doctor Who Cookbook by 385 00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:55.200 Gary Downey are making of all this. 386 00:19:55.619 --> 00:19:57.599 But I've said this before. 387 00:19:57.660 --> 00:19:59.880 I then go, I don't care because I'm enjoying that. 388 00:19:59.940 --> 00:20:01.559 Let us have this one. 389 00:20:01.740 --> 00:20:04.200 Like we can have this season. 390 00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:21.059 Right, so um, Odin, who is played very, very well by David 391 00:20:21.059 --> 00:20:21.839 Schofield. 392 00:20:21.900 --> 00:20:25.920 No criticism to David Schofield was originally cast with another 393 00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:30.000 actor, and it's exactly who you, it's exactly who you think. 394 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:32.220 God bless it. 395 00:20:32.700 --> 00:20:34.440 Oh, wow. 396 00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:35.519 Correct. 397 00:20:35.579 --> 00:20:39.960 Unfortunately, shortly before filming, he collapsed on stage as 398 00:20:39.960 --> 00:20:43.680 King Lear and was diagnosed with a heart condition and it's like 399 00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:47.160 maybe don't maybe don't work for a bit. 400 00:20:47.220 --> 00:20:48.359 Yes. 401 00:20:48.420 --> 00:20:50.220 So it was to be Brian Blessed. 402 00:20:50.279 --> 00:20:52.559 Maisie Williams was cast first. 403 00:20:52.619 --> 00:20:56.339 She was the main guest star, but then it's like, oh, we're doing a 404 00:20:56.339 --> 00:20:57.059 story with Odin. 405 00:20:57.119 --> 00:20:59.039 We need someone a bit like Brian Blessed. 406 00:20:59.099 --> 00:21:01.559 Has anybody asked Brian Blessed? 407 00:21:01.859 --> 00:21:06.960 That thing where he appears in the sky in the Monty Python and the 408 00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:09.059 Holy Grail sort of cloud. 409 00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:11.099 He's so great. 410 00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:12.480 It's so surprising. 411 00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:14.279 I mean... 412 00:21:14.339 --> 00:21:18.059 Matheson stuff has been funny before, but this is really, really 413 00:21:18.059 --> 00:21:18.779 good. 414 00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:22.380 So, you know, like the yo-yo is the doctor's way of kind of 415 00:21:22.380 --> 00:21:24.240 impressing them with technology. 416 00:21:24.299 --> 00:21:26.220 And like Clara's seen it before. 417 00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:28.319 It's like, oh, it's not the yo-yo is it? 418 00:21:28.380 --> 00:21:30.720 And then he does the voice. 419 00:21:30.779 --> 00:21:35.279 And then, like, when the big Odin appears in the sky and he tries 420 00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:37.680 something with the yo-yo and it fails. 421 00:21:37.980 --> 00:21:41.339 He goes, it's meant to do that. and he like, he's being Odin 422 00:21:41.339 --> 00:21:41.880 voice. 423 00:21:41.940 --> 00:21:46.440 Like, it's it's so wonderfully brilliant and he's so wonderfully 424 00:21:46.440 --> 00:21:49.740 crap and that's kind of the thing about Doctor Who. 425 00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:54.539 You know, like his own his own special effects are a yo-yo. 426 00:21:54.599 --> 00:22:00.240 You know, it's so homespun and so crummy compared to what the Maya 427 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:00.839 can come up with. 428 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:02.880 Literally held together with a piece of string. 429 00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:03.839 Yes. 430 00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:08.220 But that is such a great visual. 431 00:22:08.279 --> 00:22:10.859 It's so superbly funny and brilliant. 432 00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:14.579 All that business that he does is one of the reasons why he's my 433 00:22:14.579 --> 00:22:15.240 favourite doctor. 434 00:22:16.140 --> 00:22:18.660 And he's a very Tom thing. 435 00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:21.960 Like, he's channelling Tom all the time here, I think, and doing 436 00:22:21.960 --> 00:22:24.180 Tom's voice from time to time and stuff. 437 00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:28.559 Like, he just gets what works as the doctrine, what the role is 438 00:22:28.619 --> 00:22:32.279 given that this is a show about that, he's kind of the perfect 439 00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:33.180 person to do it. 440 00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:37.500 I mean, we said it's literally, this is like a short story. 441 00:22:37.619 --> 00:22:43.079 Simon often complains that the new series of Doctor Who produces 442 00:22:43.079 --> 00:22:47.160 sort of 45 minute episodes that are just compressed for partters 443 00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:48.779 but this isn't that, is it? 444 00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:50.039 This is like a short story. 445 00:22:50.099 --> 00:22:51.960 It takes place over one night. 446 00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:53.819 The doctor sort of turns up. 447 00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:59.039 There's a problem and he solves it in a very doctor-ish way. 448 00:22:59.099 --> 00:23:01.440 And I think next week is that as well. 449 00:23:01.500 --> 00:23:04.500 Like the scale of the story, the complexity of the story. 450 00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:08.640 And the fact that it is about something more than just the action 451 00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:14.400 makes it, I think, a perfect new series structure for these 2 452 00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:14.940 episodes. 453 00:23:15.059 --> 00:23:18.180 Yeah, I think I think even even though they have it to be 454 00:23:18.180 --> 00:23:20.700 continued and they have the parallel titles, they don't feel like 455 00:23:20.700 --> 00:23:24.240 two palves of a two-parter, and I mean, you had very different 456 00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:27.059 kind of halves of a two-parter in the under the lake, two-parter 457 00:23:27.059 --> 00:23:30.359 only because of the time jump, but like this feels like 2 separate 458 00:23:30.359 --> 00:23:32.519 stories that have a linking theme and a linking kind of 459 00:23:32.519 --> 00:23:33.000 character. 460 00:23:33.180 --> 00:23:36.960 Tom Spillsbury made a comment about this when we're talking about 461 00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:39.660 the season in one of the Dalek episodes at the beginning of the 462 00:23:39.660 --> 00:23:40.019 season. 463 00:23:40.079 --> 00:23:44.819 It would have been much more interesting if these hadn't been a 464 00:23:44.819 --> 00:23:45.480 two-parter. 465 00:23:45.539 --> 00:23:51.359 If this story had occurred, maybe where it is, and then part 2 had 466 00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:54.000 occurred after the Zygon 2 parter. 467 00:23:54.059 --> 00:23:59.039 So you leave her doing her own thing, you come back and see the 468 00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:02.339 impact instead of immediately coming back to the character. 469 00:24:02.460 --> 00:24:06.420 Yeah, yeah, I've I've long held that opinion as well. 470 00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:09.900 And, you know, she could have even had a cameo in the Zygon 2 471 00:24:09.900 --> 00:24:10.380 parter. 472 00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:12.539 Like, um, like Billy Piper. 473 00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:15.599 Yeah, like Billy Piper in Partners in Crime. 474 00:24:15.660 --> 00:24:16.980 You just go, hold on, what? 475 00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:21.480 And then, you know, you go, you go back to her story with Sam 476 00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:22.079 Swift. 477 00:24:22.140 --> 00:24:26.640 Do you know, I actually tend to disagree, and I'll tell you why. 478 00:24:26.700 --> 00:24:30.839 I think that what happens next week is that we see a very 479 00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:32.220 different type of Doctor Who. 480 00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:38.460 So this one is the classic Doctor Who episode that hits all those 481 00:24:38.460 --> 00:24:39.420 beads. 482 00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:45.180 And now we get a picture of the doctor, not as a sort of comedy 483 00:24:45.180 --> 00:24:50.220 hero, not as the hero of The Curse of Fatal Death, but as the 484 00:24:50.220 --> 00:24:54.599 character that both Russell and Stephen Moffatt kind of want him 485 00:24:54.599 --> 00:25:00.119 to be, which is this sort of tired, jaded person. 486 00:25:00.180 --> 00:25:04.619 And so we get, we get the fun doctor in one episode and then in 487 00:25:04.619 --> 00:25:09.420 the next episode we get a much more interesting and nuanced 488 00:25:09.420 --> 00:25:13.619 portrayal of what the doctor is, not just from the way he behaves 489 00:25:13.619 --> 00:25:18.359 in the story, but from the similarities between him and me. 490 00:25:18.420 --> 00:25:23.819 And so we do get to see her back later in the season, but I think 491 00:25:23.819 --> 00:25:28.500 that allowing us to forget about her for a bit in the middle of 492 00:25:28.500 --> 00:25:31.740 the season and then bringing her back for Face the Raven is the 493 00:25:31.740 --> 00:25:32.279 right choice. 494 00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:34.980 And I think that these 2 form a brilliant pair. 495 00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:38.460 And like some time has passed, hasn't it, between the two? 496 00:25:38.519 --> 00:25:44.279 Like the doctor has been and seen her somewhere else, like in a 497 00:25:44.279 --> 00:25:45.779 leper colony, it'll come up next week. 498 00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:48.900 He's actually visited her and looked at her from a distance to see 499 00:25:48.900 --> 00:25:50.880 how she's getting on at some point. 500 00:25:50.940 --> 00:25:56.579 So both for him and for her sometime has passed between these two 501 00:25:56.579 --> 00:25:59.279 but they're next to each other, I think, because they're, they're 502 00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:03.119 mirrors of one another or they're, there's a really salient 503 00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:06.779 contrast between them that says something about the doctor as a 504 00:26:06.779 --> 00:26:07.019 character. 505 00:26:07.140 --> 00:26:12.119 I think I think it makes a contrast much more stark having them 506 00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:15.119 right next to each other that like that so that impact would have 507 00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:15.839 been lost you. 508 00:26:15.900 --> 00:26:20.039 I suppose, but I like to play what if. 509 00:26:20.099 --> 00:26:20.880 Yeah, yeah. 510 00:26:20.940 --> 00:26:21.599 Oh, sure. 511 00:26:21.660 --> 00:26:21.900 Yeah. 512 00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:26.099 Yeah, I think I think the bit that really stands out to me is the 513 00:26:26.099 --> 00:26:28.740 bit when he looks in the in the water and sees his reflection. 514 00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:32.519 And I remember Moffatt saying like, oh, we're going to explain why 515 00:26:32.519 --> 00:26:35.519 you know, he looks like Peter Capaldi, who looks like, you know 516 00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:36.480 he's been in Doctor Who before. 517 00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:38.160 And I'm like, well, you don't need to do this. 518 00:26:38.220 --> 00:26:41.700 We didn't need to explain why the 6th doctor looked like that 519 00:26:41.700 --> 00:26:44.160 guard that like, you know, Peter Davidson wants that. 520 00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:45.960 Like, this is this, we don't need it. 521 00:26:46.019 --> 00:26:47.519 And then they put it in deep breaths. 522 00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:49.980 And in deep breaths, the doctor is like, who frowned this face for 523 00:26:49.980 --> 00:26:50.220 me? 524 00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:51.660 I'm like, oh, okay, that's fine. 525 00:26:51.720 --> 00:26:52.140 That's enough. 526 00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:55.380 You've acknowledged that, you know, you've met this face before or 527 00:26:55.380 --> 00:26:56.400 whatever, that's good enough. 528 00:26:56.460 --> 00:26:58.740 And I was really against them going for this. 529 00:26:58.799 --> 00:27:00.839 And then when they did it, I find it amazing. 530 00:27:00.900 --> 00:27:03.000 I actually, it makes me tear up every time. 531 00:27:03.059 --> 00:27:07.380 I think the idea that like, like, the doctor needs to hold himself 532 00:27:07.380 --> 00:27:09.660 to the mark and he's not actually strong enough. 533 00:27:09.720 --> 00:27:11.460 And so he's like, you know what, who was? 534 00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:12.359 The 10th doctor. 535 00:27:12.420 --> 00:27:13.380 He was way stronger than I was. 536 00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:16.079 So I'm just going to remind myself of that. 537 00:27:16.140 --> 00:27:19.200 And it's like, he also needs a companion who will just cut through 538 00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:20.099 and tell him what to do. 539 00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:21.299 And that's not Clara. 540 00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:21.960 It's Donna. 541 00:27:22.019 --> 00:27:25.140 And so he's just he's just drawing on this previous strength that 542 00:27:25.140 --> 00:27:25.680 he used to have. 543 00:27:25.740 --> 00:27:28.859 And I think that sort of we as viewers recognise as like, you know 544 00:27:28.859 --> 00:27:31.380 yeah, that was in a way Doctor Who, in its heyday. 545 00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:34.920 And so it's like, that's just such a, like the moment you see 546 00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:37.319 David Tennant reaching up the hand from the TARDIS in flashback 547 00:27:37.319 --> 00:27:39.779 you're like, oh, yeah, this is a much more confident doctor. 548 00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:42.660 Like, this doctor has been very uncertain that he, like, has to 549 00:27:42.660 --> 00:27:45.539 have his predecessor called Clara the Telephone in the 1st episode 550 00:27:45.539 --> 00:27:48.240 can kind of like set things straight because he's not really sure 551 00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:51.119 who he is or what he is, you know, he's a good man in the previous 552 00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:52.079 season and so forth. 553 00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:54.480 And he finally kind of gets that certainty here. 554 00:27:54.539 --> 00:27:56.819 And the 1st thing he does is he makes a terrible mistake. 555 00:27:56.940 --> 00:27:59.220 And he's like, I'm just gonna say the next person I see. 556 00:27:59.220 --> 00:28:00.359 And it's a bad idea. 557 00:28:00.420 --> 00:28:02.279 And even admits it in this episode. 558 00:28:02.339 --> 00:28:04.799 I find it really funny that he's like at the end when they get 559 00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:06.660 back to the Tartars, he's like, yeah, I was angry, I was 560 00:28:06.660 --> 00:28:07.019 emotional. 561 00:28:07.079 --> 00:28:09.119 And he's like, oh, yeah, no, I've done terrible thing. 562 00:28:09.180 --> 00:28:12.119 And like, oh, I thought they were just gonna like, you know, I'd 563 00:28:12.119 --> 00:28:14.039 be like, oh, no, I did the right thing for now, and we would learn 564 00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:16.980 consequences, but no, he's already figured them out, then they're 565 00:28:16.980 --> 00:28:17.279 not good. 566 00:28:17.339 --> 00:28:21.480 I have this thing, though, about those doctor rules, like the 567 00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:26.220 rules which the doctor is supposed to follow and he follows them 568 00:28:26.220 --> 00:28:29.039 by not saving people by not doing a good thing. 569 00:28:29.099 --> 00:28:33.420 And those rules seem to me to be the sort of thing that I want the 570 00:28:33.420 --> 00:28:34.259 doctor to break. 571 00:28:34.319 --> 00:28:39.180 And it's the reason that I'm not on board very much with waters of 572 00:28:39.180 --> 00:28:43.200 Mars because I think, the doctor did the right thing by saving 573 00:28:43.200 --> 00:28:44.400 those people on the bass. 574 00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:49.019 And here, like saving someone's life and you can save someone's 575 00:28:49.019 --> 00:28:50.400 life is absolutely a thing. 576 00:28:50.460 --> 00:28:54.720 Look at how central she was to that village. 577 00:28:54.720 --> 00:29:03.599 And, yeah, like, like, I want him to break those big giant rules 578 00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:08.460 in order to save people and we're there with chuckles, you know 579 00:29:08.460 --> 00:29:12.480 crying over her body and responding to her coming back to life. 580 00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:16.740 And there's no doubt in my mind that he does the right thing by 581 00:29:16.740 --> 00:29:17.880 making that happen. 582 00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:20.640 On that point with Waters of Mars. 583 00:29:20.700 --> 00:29:25.200 I think the difference is that in the waters of Mars, the doctor 584 00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:27.960 breaks the rules to prove that he can break the rules. 585 00:29:28.019 --> 00:29:29.640 It's to prove that he's in charge. 586 00:29:30.119 --> 00:29:35.460 The doctor here breaks the rules because of his affection and 587 00:29:35.460 --> 00:29:38.160 gratitude towards a shelder. 588 00:29:38.220 --> 00:29:41.819 And at the end, back in the Tartars when he's saying, I think I've 589 00:29:41.819 --> 00:29:42.299 made a mistake. 590 00:29:42.359 --> 00:29:46.079 I'm reminded of Jamie Matheson's earlier script, Mummy on the 591 00:29:46.079 --> 00:29:49.859 Orient Express, where he says to Clara at the end, sometimes the 592 00:29:49.859 --> 00:29:53.279 only choices you have are bad ones, but you still need to choose. 593 00:29:53.460 --> 00:29:59.940 You know, Jamie Matheson, I think, only writes 4 or 5 scripts, but 594 00:29:59.940 --> 00:30:05.220 he comes in and immediately slams down, this is who I think the 595 00:30:05.220 --> 00:30:09.119 doctor is, and that is internally consistent across all of his 596 00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:09.420 work. 597 00:30:09.480 --> 00:30:13.380 I was having lunch this week with friend of the podcast, Anson, who 598 00:30:13.380 --> 00:30:16.920 said he wished that Jamie Matheson had taken over from producer of 599 00:30:16.920 --> 00:30:17.640 Stephen Moffat. 600 00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:19.619 He's like, I'm not saying that is a negative thing to Chris 601 00:30:19.619 --> 00:30:20.400 Chipnall. 602 00:30:20.460 --> 00:30:21.420 I enjoy bits of that. 603 00:30:21.539 --> 00:30:24.059 Actually, funny thing, he was saying, I rewatched the power of the 604 00:30:24.059 --> 00:30:26.880 doctor recently and I had, what do you call it? 605 00:30:26.940 --> 00:30:29.099 I had my Brad moment and I'm like, the Todd experience. 606 00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:32.819 He said, yes, I had a to experience. a spread moment. 607 00:30:33.779 --> 00:30:35.640 Sorry, Todd. 608 00:30:35.700 --> 00:30:37.500 He got one letter right. 609 00:30:37.559 --> 00:30:42.960 But yeah, it is this thing of the choices you may have a bad and 610 00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:46.920 you may regret them, but you make the choice that is right in the 611 00:30:46.920 --> 00:30:47.220 moment. 612 00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:50.640 You see, I think it's more complicated than that. 613 00:30:50.700 --> 00:30:54.299 I think he saves a shielder because he's terrified of losing Clara 614 00:30:54.359 --> 00:30:56.160 he basically says that. 615 00:30:56.220 --> 00:30:59.700 And I think David Tennant's doctor saves the people in waters of 616 00:30:59.700 --> 00:31:03.180 Mars because he can't bear listening to them suffer and, you know 617 00:31:03.180 --> 00:31:05.880 he's walking away from the base trying to do the right thing and 618 00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:09.660 he hears over their audio people screaming and crying and 619 00:31:09.660 --> 00:31:14.039 terrified and he can't just, you know, like, he's not just doing 620 00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:15.180 it to Big None himself. 621 00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:18.539 He's doing it because of the kindness and compassion that 622 00:31:18.539 --> 00:31:20.220 characterise him as a character. 623 00:31:20.279 --> 00:31:23.160 Can you explain that to Time Lord Victorious? 624 00:31:23.940 --> 00:31:26.160 Well, that's the thing though. 625 00:31:26.220 --> 00:31:29.819 When he gets back to Earth, it's about, well, I broke the rules 626 00:31:29.819 --> 00:31:32.279 and I have the power and I saved you little people. 627 00:31:32.339 --> 00:31:36.359 Yeah, I think when he goes back, it's to help people and then the 628 00:31:36.359 --> 00:31:38.160 idea is that the power corrupts him. 629 00:31:38.220 --> 00:31:41.339 And yeah, it's like, okay, so yeah, the power to switch the trolly 630 00:31:41.339 --> 00:31:44.880 onto the track that has no one on it is that's going to corrupt 631 00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:45.119 you. 632 00:31:45.180 --> 00:31:45.359 No. 633 00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:49.259 It's switching the trolly onto the track with the people is going 634 00:31:49.259 --> 00:31:49.740 to corrupt you. 635 00:31:49.799 --> 00:31:51.779 So you know what? 636 00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:55.079 Matheson's next and last story is. 637 00:31:55.140 --> 00:31:56.279 Oxygen. 638 00:31:56.339 --> 00:31:56.579 Yes. 639 00:31:57.000 --> 00:31:59.460 He has a good track record. 640 00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:00.299 He's really good. 641 00:32:00.420 --> 00:32:01.859 Four for four. 642 00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:05.460 Yeah, I mean, the doctor has this scene where he's shouting at the 643 00:32:05.460 --> 00:32:09.660 time lords, which is such a incongruous scene in New Who, that, you 644 00:32:09.660 --> 00:32:12.359 know, you see this in classic who in, like, Attack of the Cybern 645 00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:14.640 or whatever, and you start shouting at the sky being like, oh, I 646 00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:17.220 see, it's you. you know, and this time he's like, and if you have 647 00:32:17.220 --> 00:32:20.519 a problem with that, like, you know, like, yeah, yeah. 648 00:32:20.579 --> 00:32:21.839 So good. 649 00:32:21.960 --> 00:32:22.619 It's so good. 650 00:32:22.740 --> 00:32:25.440 He's just superb in this. 651 00:32:25.500 --> 00:32:28.859 Like a show that's about who the doctor is as a character has to 652 00:32:28.859 --> 00:32:32.819 have Capoldi is the lead because he's just the doctor in a way 653 00:32:32.819 --> 00:32:35.759 that maybe almost no one else is, I think. 654 00:32:48.299 --> 00:32:54.000 Also, at the time, there was a bit of criticism of following one 655 00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:59.160 character through time, as in a shilder, but this pair of episodes 656 00:32:59.160 --> 00:33:01.619 makes me think of the arc. 657 00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:02.039 Yeah. 658 00:33:02.039 --> 00:33:06.359 You know, and even though like there are, there are dodgy aspects 659 00:33:06.359 --> 00:33:10.140 to the arc, it's often held up as, with the classic series, one of 660 00:33:10.140 --> 00:33:13.619 the few times we do something time travel-y with time travel. 661 00:33:14.099 --> 00:33:19.079 And, you know, I think it's such an interesting idea, especially 662 00:33:19.079 --> 00:33:23.640 we've been discussing since fear of a Welsh planet that it's hard 663 00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:26.339 to do a story with a time travel show. 664 00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:28.200 Yeah, yeah. 665 00:33:28.259 --> 00:33:32.700 But to then be able to do one over 1000s of years because you have 666 00:33:32.700 --> 00:33:37.200 another immortal character, it immediately opens up the universe. 667 00:33:37.259 --> 00:33:40.500 And it's kind of a shame that maybe they haven't considered it 668 00:33:40.500 --> 00:33:42.539 maybe she hasn't been available, but I would have loved to see 669 00:33:42.539 --> 00:33:46.259 Maisie Williams give us a few appearances here and there over the 670 00:33:46.259 --> 00:33:46.740 years. 671 00:33:46.799 --> 00:33:50.039 They should just have her in the background every time we go to 672 00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:51.420 Earth and she's just standing around. 673 00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:54.720 You should just done lots of pickup shots to slot into episodes 674 00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:55.799 all over the place. 675 00:33:55.859 --> 00:34:00.359 I'm still waiting for the inevitable 4 box sets from Big Finnish 676 00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:01.079 Clara and me. 677 00:34:01.140 --> 00:34:02.279 Yeah, yes. 678 00:34:02.339 --> 00:34:02.579 Yeah. 679 00:34:02.579 --> 00:34:07.859 It seems like it was set up just for that, doesn't it? 680 00:34:08.519 --> 00:34:12.239 Some of the criticism you talk about, I think, is partly like they 681 00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:14.880 were going to the well a bit often about like, you know, immortal 682 00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:17.159 beings who are going to be around at the end of time or whatever 683 00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:19.380 and, you know, you've got Captain Jack, and then you've got like 684 00:34:19.380 --> 00:34:21.239 you know, like Orson Pink, you know, at the end of time. 685 00:34:21.300 --> 00:34:23.219 Like, there's a lot of people turning up at the end of time. 686 00:34:23.219 --> 00:34:26.039 And, you know, the doctor gets to the end of the home, will it be 687 00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:26.280 this week? 688 00:34:26.340 --> 00:34:27.480 And oh, it's leading me this time. 689 00:34:27.539 --> 00:34:30.239 And, you know, it's like, there was quite a bit of that floating 690 00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:30.539 around. 691 00:34:30.599 --> 00:34:33.900 And I think with hindsight, it actually feels like probably it's 692 00:34:33.900 --> 00:34:35.940 more of a riff that Moffatt was interested in. 693 00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:39.000 But at the time it just felt like, okay, well, which of the many 694 00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:40.860 characters is going to turn up at the end of the universe this 695 00:34:40.860 --> 00:34:41.159 week? 696 00:34:41.219 --> 00:34:44.159 Well, it's like when you die and like aliens are falling over 697 00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:47.159 themselves to kind of, you know, kind of harvest your soul or 698 00:34:47.159 --> 00:34:47.519 whatever. 699 00:34:47.579 --> 00:34:48.420 Is it missy? 700 00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:50.280 Is it the people from Twice Upon a Time? 701 00:34:50.340 --> 00:34:52.139 Is it the people from Demons of the Punjab? 702 00:34:52.199 --> 00:34:56.760 You know, they're all there trying to kind of record the event, I 703 00:34:56.760 --> 00:34:56.880 think. 704 00:34:56.940 --> 00:35:00.179 Is it the people who bring Harry Kim back from the dead or is it 705 00:35:00.179 --> 00:35:03.119 the people who bring Harry Kim's not girlfriend back from the 706 00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:03.360 dead? 707 00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:07.619 I love it when Voyager gets to the point where it starts copying 708 00:35:07.619 --> 00:35:08.280 itself. 709 00:35:08.340 --> 00:35:09.659 Sorry, different podcast. 710 00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:12.300 I think what I want to really know is like, does the Maya 711 00:35:12.300 --> 00:35:13.619 technology last till the end of time? 712 00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:18.000 I mean, the Maya create this immortal being. 713 00:35:18.059 --> 00:35:20.280 Well, but aren't they using it all themselves all the time? 714 00:35:20.340 --> 00:35:20.940 I, you know. 715 00:35:21.539 --> 00:35:22.920 Why aren't there a lot of Maya kind of? 716 00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:26.639 You know, like hanging around in that scene with the dogs are 717 00:35:26.639 --> 00:35:28.139 amazing at the very end, you would think. 718 00:35:28.500 --> 00:35:33.659 One thing that I think is worth mentioning is how doctor-ish Clara 719 00:35:33.659 --> 00:35:38.219 is, and I think it links in with what you were saying, Stacy, where 720 00:35:38.219 --> 00:35:42.360 Donna was there to push back against the doctor, but Clara can't 721 00:35:42.360 --> 00:35:48.119 do that because she is so much like the doctor. 722 00:35:48.179 --> 00:35:54.360 And it's that scene with her talking the Maya into leaving at the 723 00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:58.139 very beginning, which I think is just extraordinary. 724 00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:01.500 And there's even a moment where Amaya walks past her really 725 00:36:01.500 --> 00:36:05.519 quickly, like really close and she sort of gets out of the way and 726 00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:07.739 she goes, oh, hello, as if she's Tom. 727 00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:10.860 You know, like it's the it's the most amazing thing. 728 00:36:10.980 --> 00:36:14.820 And so, and so Maisie gets to be her companion and do the silly 729 00:36:14.820 --> 00:36:17.880 thing while she's talking the aliens away. 730 00:36:17.940 --> 00:36:21.780 Like she nearly is the doctor enough to solve this problem at the 731 00:36:21.780 --> 00:36:22.199 very beginning. 732 00:36:22.260 --> 00:36:25.619 It basically works except for a shoulder, right? 733 00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:27.719 Which is kind of like the season as a whole. 734 00:36:27.780 --> 00:36:31.980 It's like... 735 00:36:31.980 --> 00:36:35.519 It's like sort of an inverted version of the demons where, you 736 00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:39.659 know, Joe jumping in front and saying, no, like actually solves 737 00:36:39.659 --> 00:36:40.380 the problem. 738 00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:43.739 Whereas the time lord's standing there going, oh, but no, no, you 739 00:36:43.739 --> 00:36:44.340 really shouldn't. 740 00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:46.440 You really shouldn't wipe out this planet because it's nice and da 741 00:36:46.440 --> 00:36:49.320 da da and Joe's and the demon's like, no, I'm going to wipe it 742 00:36:49.320 --> 00:36:49.500 out. 743 00:36:49.559 --> 00:36:51.000 And Joe Jobs. 744 00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:51.480 Oh, no. 745 00:36:51.539 --> 00:36:53.519 So we've kind of got the subversion of that where usually the 746 00:36:53.519 --> 00:36:56.579 companion steps in like with a leaf, for instance, in Rings of 747 00:36:56.579 --> 00:37:01.019 Back of 10 and solves the problem that the alien god can't solve. 748 00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:05.340 But this time, the human and very understandable reaction of a 749 00:37:05.340 --> 00:37:08.460 shelder who's just seen a lot of her friends die is actually what 750 00:37:08.460 --> 00:37:10.019 creates the episode's problem. 751 00:37:10.079 --> 00:37:12.000 It's so good, isn't it? 752 00:37:12.059 --> 00:37:13.079 It's so good. 753 00:37:13.139 --> 00:37:18.360 And you kind of forget that it very, very quickly establishes how 754 00:37:18.360 --> 00:37:23.400 fond she is of those warriors and how fond they are of her with 755 00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:26.460 them arriving back and they've all arrived back. 756 00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:28.619 No one has died, you know, at the beginning of the episode 757 00:37:28.619 --> 00:37:32.460 bringing the doctor and Clara back, and then they're killed, and 758 00:37:32.460 --> 00:37:34.380 like, she's still a child. 759 00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:36.119 She's not Aria Stark. 760 00:37:36.179 --> 00:37:40.320 I mean, she is a frightened girl, but like she's so, she's so 761 00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:43.019 fierce and so fantastic at that moment. 762 00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:46.800 And I think the other really, really good acting moment she gets 763 00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:52.440 is that speech and it's a backstory exposition speech about who 764 00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:54.780 she is and why the village matters to her. 765 00:37:54.960 --> 00:38:02.280 And she just delivers it like she's thinking it up as she's going 766 00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:02.760 along. 767 00:38:02.820 --> 00:38:04.079 It's so well done. 768 00:38:04.139 --> 00:38:06.239 She absolutely nails it. 769 00:38:06.300 --> 00:38:12.900 Like, she's an outsider and a nerd and someone who's into 770 00:38:12.900 --> 00:38:18.900 storytelling, someone who doesn't conform to gender norms either. 771 00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:25.980 She's an outsider and she knows that wherever else she goes that 772 00:38:25.980 --> 00:38:29.340 isn't this village, she's going to be an outsider. 773 00:38:29.400 --> 00:38:31.920 She's not gonna get the love and protection that she gets here. 774 00:38:31.980 --> 00:38:36.960 And I think too, that portraying a past, a village, like just a 775 00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:39.420 little village full of silly Vikings and stuff. 776 00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:43.800 You know, that those Vikings are people who, who love her. 777 00:38:43.860 --> 00:38:47.340 Like it's so, it's so clear and so well done. 778 00:38:47.460 --> 00:38:50.579 It's interesting what you say about her not conforming to gender 779 00:38:50.579 --> 00:38:54.780 norms because in one version of the script, she was married to the 780 00:38:54.780 --> 00:38:56.760 village carpenter. 781 00:38:56.820 --> 00:38:57.480 Right. 782 00:38:57.480 --> 00:39:00.000 And he was her front. 783 00:39:00.059 --> 00:39:03.239 Like she was the one that was actually doing all the carpentry. 784 00:39:04.380 --> 00:39:07.440 And he was just the storefront. 785 00:39:07.500 --> 00:39:10.139 Everybody thought he was the carpenter, but it was actually her 786 00:39:10.139 --> 00:39:11.460 doing it behind the scenes. 787 00:39:11.519 --> 00:39:15.539 That's awesome Yeah, I think there's something really beautiful 788 00:39:15.539 --> 00:39:16.619 about it, I think. 789 00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:17.460 Yeah. 790 00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:23.639 And I think also, we often look back in history and assume that 791 00:39:23.639 --> 00:39:29.340 gender roles would have been what they were in our cultures around 792 00:39:29.340 --> 00:39:32.940 the 19th century, but it's not necessarily true. 793 00:39:33.059 --> 00:39:36.659 And there's lots of evidence that in Viking settlements. 794 00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:43.980 There is a lot more equity and a lot more sharing of gender roles 795 00:39:43.980 --> 00:39:45.780 and tasks than we might have thought. 796 00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:49.320 So I really kind of appreciate that, you know, she does have that 797 00:39:49.320 --> 00:39:53.760 comment, but at the same time, no one in the village treats her 798 00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:57.480 storytelling as silly or stupid and it's actually, it's actually 799 00:39:57.480 --> 00:39:59.280 really respected or the puppetry. 800 00:39:59.340 --> 00:40:02.760 And then, and then, you know, when Lofty's baby's crying, it's 801 00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:08.280 lofty comforting the baby, which, you know, we would assume that. 802 00:40:08.340 --> 00:40:11.219 Stealing, why has lofty stolen a baby? 803 00:40:11.280 --> 00:40:13.019 That's so doctored? 804 00:40:13.079 --> 00:40:14.400 Like, that's an almost Matt Smith. 805 00:40:14.519 --> 00:40:15.059 Dr. Fing? 806 00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:17.519 just like I can't possibly understand what sort of human 807 00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:20.579 interactions. you know, happen around a baby. 808 00:40:20.699 --> 00:40:23.099 So he's stealing it clearly. 809 00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:23.639 Yeah. 810 00:40:23.699 --> 00:40:28.199 And, and, you know, chuckles comforting a shoulder and assuming 811 00:40:28.199 --> 00:40:29.699 the doctor is going to make fun of him. 812 00:40:29.699 --> 00:40:32.880 When actually the doctor's just a little bit uncomfortable with 813 00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:38.340 such a genuine and raw expression of emotion, like earlier when he 814 00:40:38.340 --> 00:40:41.099 realises Clara is alive, he runs up and gives her a thumbs up and 815 00:40:41.099 --> 00:40:43.619 says, you know, I'm still not good with the hugging. 816 00:40:43.679 --> 00:40:46.559 Oh, never mind, you know, scoops her up and what have you. 817 00:40:46.619 --> 00:40:51.719 I think there is a lot going on here to kind of, we, I think we've 818 00:40:51.719 --> 00:40:52.320 spoken about before. 819 00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:58.739 You know, the past is kind of represented as us, you know, um, sort 820 00:40:58.739 --> 00:41:00.480 of theme park historical. thats it. 821 00:41:00.539 --> 00:41:01.500 Thanks, Pete. 822 00:41:01.980 --> 00:41:06.239 But it's kind of also like, well, actually, no, if you, you know 823 00:41:06.239 --> 00:41:09.539 if you look back in history, the social roles were more complex 824 00:41:09.539 --> 00:41:10.920 than we often give them credit for. 825 00:41:10.980 --> 00:41:14.460 Yeah, I think it's also that moment it's hinted that like both the 826 00:41:14.460 --> 00:41:17.159 doctor and Clara have a bit of a crush on his shoulder. like early 827 00:41:17.159 --> 00:41:17.519 on. 828 00:41:17.579 --> 00:41:19.380 And you're just like, oh, fine, your forearm. 829 00:41:19.500 --> 00:41:22.559 Yeah, I feel like this is the only time I think you really see 830 00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:25.739 this kind of interest in somebody from Peter Cavaldi's doctor. 831 00:41:25.860 --> 00:41:27.719 And it's like, wait, what? 832 00:41:27.780 --> 00:41:28.619 Did that just really happen? 833 00:41:28.679 --> 00:41:31.139 He's normally very asexual in his presentation. 834 00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:34.679 And so I love this moment and it's just, yeah, they're both into 835 00:41:34.679 --> 00:41:34.920 her. 836 00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:41.099 But I mean, I didn't necessarily read it as a sexual per se, but 837 00:41:41.099 --> 00:41:43.860 just that they were, you know, they wanted to make their 838 00:41:43.860 --> 00:41:44.400 companion. 839 00:41:44.460 --> 00:41:46.199 I think it's sexual. 840 00:41:46.260 --> 00:41:49.019 I think it's meant to be sexual. with Clara. 841 00:41:49.079 --> 00:41:52.260 I'm not sure about the doctor because the doctor and he could just 842 00:41:52.260 --> 00:41:55.679 be, you know, it could be the intention that he's kind of covering 843 00:41:55.679 --> 00:41:58.800 it up, but he just says, you know, you humans you're obsessed with 844 00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:00.119 this, you know. 845 00:42:00.179 --> 00:42:01.559 Yeah. 846 00:42:01.619 --> 00:42:04.860 And again, it's that sort of weird my hobby's you thing as well 847 00:42:04.860 --> 00:42:06.539 which would get a little Clara too. 848 00:42:07.139 --> 00:42:09.480 But that's a great. 849 00:42:09.539 --> 00:42:11.159 I mean that is a great moment. 850 00:42:11.280 --> 00:42:14.460 And I just think, you know, that's going to continue next week 851 00:42:14.460 --> 00:42:14.820 isn't it? 852 00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:18.360 where she's going to present as a man for some of the time and 853 00:42:18.360 --> 00:42:22.860 then frock up as a woman, you know, in a very kind of girly 854 00:42:22.860 --> 00:42:25.980 womanly way at times as well. 855 00:42:26.039 --> 00:42:30.000 And because she's read Malcolm Gladwell and has practised sounding 856 00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:34.139 like a man for 10,000 hours or something, she can do it 857 00:42:34.139 --> 00:42:34.679 perfectly. 858 00:42:42.059 --> 00:42:46.860 I'd like to say one more thing about casting, because in the role 859 00:42:46.860 --> 00:42:51.000 of Heidi, as the doctor nicknames a particular Viking with braided 860 00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:54.719 beard, we have Barnaby K, who would later go on to play 861 00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:55.679 Wallander. 862 00:42:55.739 --> 00:42:58.139 So the one who's not Kenneth Branner. 863 00:42:58.199 --> 00:42:59.639 Oh okay. 864 00:42:59.699 --> 00:43:00.480 Yeah. 865 00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:02.579 Oh, they've got a Dane in or something, have they? 866 00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:03.960 Of that descent, yes. 867 00:43:04.019 --> 00:43:04.559 Right. 868 00:43:06.659 --> 00:43:11.699 In real life, he's married to Nicola Walker. 869 00:43:11.760 --> 00:43:12.780 Oh my god. 870 00:43:12.840 --> 00:43:15.059 That house must be amazing. 871 00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:19.019 Yeah, Livchenka in Big Finish and just an amazing actress in many 872 00:43:19.019 --> 00:43:19.980 many, many other things. 873 00:43:20.039 --> 00:43:23.760 And of course, we've got Ian Conningham as chuckles, and I don't 874 00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:25.260 know what else he's done, but I'd like to see more. 875 00:43:25.320 --> 00:43:26.639 Yeah, me too. 876 00:43:28.019 --> 00:43:32.039 Well, I think my last outstanding question is, why are there South 877 00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:33.659 American eels in a Viking village? 878 00:43:35.099 --> 00:43:37.019 It's kind of there. 879 00:43:37.079 --> 00:43:38.880 Also, I looked it up. 880 00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:43.019 I think the eels produced like 860 volts and they produced like 881 00:43:43.019 --> 00:43:45.239 one amp here for like 2 milliseconds. 882 00:43:45.300 --> 00:43:47.219 Like, it is not going to do what they think it's doing. 883 00:43:47.280 --> 00:43:49.860 Like eels are not that good at conducting. 884 00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:53.579 Is there a line of dialogue where it's like get that stuff from 885 00:43:53.579 --> 00:43:57.780 Clara's spacesuit, which will amplify the thing or something like 886 00:43:57.780 --> 00:43:58.139 that? 887 00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:01.260 Clearly he's looked at least at the Wikipedia page and has decided 888 00:44:01.260 --> 00:44:05.940 there has to be some hand wavy science fiction magic reason why it 889 00:44:05.940 --> 00:44:07.320 actually electrocutes people. 890 00:44:07.380 --> 00:44:08.280 It is great. 891 00:44:08.340 --> 00:44:12.000 So I have to say that that resolution is really, really terrific 892 00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:14.159 because it's so simple. 893 00:44:14.280 --> 00:44:18.360 And when the doctor hits upon it, he looks like such a madman as 894 00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:21.780 well, which is absolutely on points and in character. 895 00:44:21.840 --> 00:44:23.340 But it's that thing. 896 00:44:23.400 --> 00:44:25.079 Like he hears a thing. 897 00:44:25.139 --> 00:44:29.940 He works out that it's eels and right from there he's worked out. 898 00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:33.420 Nope, we can win now and he's absolutely nailed it at that 899 00:44:33.420 --> 00:44:33.719 moment. 900 00:44:33.780 --> 00:44:35.699 But I love that it turns on eels. 901 00:44:35.760 --> 00:44:39.480 And partly, I think, because Stephen Moffin is a big fan of the 902 00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:41.219 word fish as well. 903 00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:44.820 He thinks it's hilarious. 904 00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:47.340 And I think eels is a pretty hilarious word too. 905 00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:52.079 I do also like how they're very dramatically aware eels because 906 00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:55.500 when he turns to the craze and says, why did nobody tell me we 907 00:44:55.500 --> 00:44:56.280 have eels? 908 00:44:56.340 --> 00:44:57.300 They all bite up. 909 00:44:58.800 --> 00:45:01.320 It's like, hi, here we are. 910 00:45:01.380 --> 00:45:03.780 It heals with jazz hands. 911 00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:09.659 There is one more thing I'd like to mention before we go. 912 00:45:10.199 --> 00:45:15.239 So, Ed Basiljet, the director. 913 00:45:15.300 --> 00:45:16.800 This is not his 1st career. 914 00:45:16.860 --> 00:45:18.119 No. 915 00:45:18.119 --> 00:45:19.559 He was previously a musician. 916 00:45:19.619 --> 00:45:20.820 Yes. 917 00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:22.860 He will go on just before you say this. 918 00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:26.940 He'll go on and do next week's episode and he also does the return 919 00:45:26.940 --> 00:45:28.079 of Dr. Mysterio. 920 00:45:28.139 --> 00:45:29.099 Yes. 921 00:45:29.159 --> 00:45:29.880 Yes, that's right. 922 00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:34.320 But way back in the 80s, he was the lead guitarist in a group 923 00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:37.800 called The Vapours, who particularly Australian listeners may 924 00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:40.500 recognise for their hit song Turning Japanese. 925 00:45:40.559 --> 00:45:41.579 Oh. 926 00:45:42.780 --> 00:45:44.760 That takes me back. 927 00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:48.719 Which, okay. but yes. really is. 928 00:45:48.780 --> 00:45:50.639 That was sort of formative, wasn't it? 929 00:45:50.699 --> 00:45:53.519 Like that was that was our time, I think. 930 00:45:53.579 --> 00:45:55.380 I remember that incredibly well. 931 00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:59.579 So I, and like presumably he was in the film clip for that, because 932 00:45:59.579 --> 00:46:02.880 I think the film clip had the meaner, didn't it? 933 00:46:02.940 --> 00:46:08.099 So we may have seen him during our youth, I think, on a telly. 934 00:46:08.159 --> 00:46:08.880 It's pretty amazing. 935 00:46:08.940 --> 00:46:14.760 That's awesome He is also on the board of governors of Coal Hill 936 00:46:14.760 --> 00:46:18.840 Academy as well, because he does direct 3 episodes of class. 937 00:46:18.900 --> 00:46:20.760 Maybe the 1st three. 938 00:46:45.420 --> 00:46:48.659 Well, listen, that's all the time we've had for this week. 939 00:46:48.719 --> 00:46:52.619 We'll be back next week for some ennui, lassitude, and general 940 00:46:52.619 --> 00:46:55.860 world weariness in The Woman Who Lived. 941 00:46:55.920 --> 00:46:59.639 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts 942 00:46:59.639 --> 00:47:03.659 and you can keep up with us on our website, flightthroughentirety 943 00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:06.719 com, where you'll find all our social media links, as well as 944 00:47:06.719 --> 00:47:11.159 links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody Interterra, maximum 945 00:47:11.159 --> 00:47:14.340 power, and untitled Star Trek project. 946 00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:18.360 Until next time, remember that we're past the Big Bang and 947 00:47:18.360 --> 00:47:22.440 dinosaurs now and well into the mounting sense of futility stage. 948 00:47:22.500 --> 00:47:25.559 So relax and enjoy the ride. 949 00:47:25.619 --> 00:47:27.659 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 950 00:47:27.719 --> 00:47:28.920 Good night. 951 00:47:28.980 --> 00:47:30.780 See you soon Bye. 952 00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:38.400 That was Flight Through Entirety. 953 00:47:38.460 --> 00:47:41.099 Sorry, Nathan Botterley, Brendan Jones, James Selwood and Stacy 954 00:47:41.099 --> 00:47:41.519 Smith. 955 00:47:41.579 --> 00:47:43.980 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lam. 956 00:47:44.039 --> 00:47:47.940 This episode, eels with jazz hands, was recorded on the 27th of 957 00:47:47.940 --> 00:47:50.820 August 2023 and released on the 15th of October. 958 00:47:51.780 --> 00:47:56.219 As is now well known, the girl who died forms the 2nd part of a 959 00:47:56.219 --> 00:47:59.880 trilogy, alongside the girl who waited, and next year's shooting 960 00:47:59.880 --> 00:48:02.880 Gantware episode, the girl who was just not as well dressed as the 961 00:48:02.880 --> 00:48:06.239 doctor. starring Millie Gibson as Ruby Sunday. 962 00:48:12.300 --> 00:48:16.619 Because he does direct three episodes of Class, maybe the first 963 00:48:16.619 --> 00:48:17.099 three. 964 00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:19.980 I don't know what that is. 965 00:48:20.099 --> 00:48:21.719 Never heard of it. 966 00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:23.639 You didn't miss much. 967 00:48:25.679 --> 00:48:29.159 I actually kind of liked fast. 968 00:48:29.159 --> 00:48:31.559 I love the class novels. 969 00:48:31.619 --> 00:48:34.679 They wrote 3 novels and I found them in Indonesia and I read them 970 00:48:34.679 --> 00:48:36.000 and they're like, these are really good. 971 00:48:36.059 --> 00:48:39.179 Like, that show could have worked. big Finnish audios are quite 972 00:48:39.179 --> 00:48:39.539 good too. 973 00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:44.820 Yeah, no, look, on big finish. they work really well Who's who's 974 00:48:44.820 --> 00:48:46.559 Quill in Big Finish now? 975 00:48:46.619 --> 00:48:47.159 Someone different. 976 00:48:47.219 --> 00:48:48.000 They recast. 977 00:48:48.119 --> 00:48:49.980 Devla Cohen. 978 00:48:50.099 --> 00:48:50.940 Oh, my God. 979 00:48:51.000 --> 00:48:51.659 Yeah, yeah. 980 00:48:51.780 --> 00:48:56.340 Yeah, the Kitty Angel. and the 1st Phoebe in Good Night 981 00:48:56.340 --> 00:48:56.699 sweetheart. 982 00:48:56.760 --> 00:49:00.000 Wait, isn't Devlico and also Mrs. Watts a face? 983 00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:00.719 From... 984 00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:00.960 Yes. 985 00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:01.920 From the Cybermen. 986 00:49:01.980 --> 00:49:04.079 Cybermen, terrible Cybermen, Christmas special. 987 00:49:04.139 --> 00:49:05.519 Yeah, that one. 988 00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:07.019 Yeah, it was great. 989 00:49:07.019 --> 00:49:10.440 I thought you meant the next doctor, that terrible announcement 990 00:49:10.440 --> 00:49:14.400 video with Peter Capaldi. 991 00:49:14.460 --> 00:49:17.099 All I saw was he's had hands. 992 00:49:17.159 --> 00:49:19.619 Like you see his hands and he's wearing a wedding ring and I just 993 00:49:19.619 --> 00:49:22.019 went, oh my god, he's old and straight. 994 00:49:23.820 --> 00:49:25.739 Oh, it's okay. 995 00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:27.000 Peter Capaldi. 996 00:49:29.880 --> 00:49:35.760 I reckon we probably, we may, in some form or other, and I'm going 997 00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:39.179 to be vague in case he sends up as a... 998 00:49:39.179 --> 00:49:42.420 I think, yeah, I think we may do class at some point in the 999 00:49:42.420 --> 00:49:42.780 future. 1000 00:49:42.900 --> 00:49:43.619 Oh, I see, right. 1001 00:49:43.679 --> 00:49:44.099 Right, right. 1002 00:49:44.159 --> 00:49:44.880 Yeah. 1003 00:49:44.940 --> 00:49:46.260 Like, maybe, maybe. 1004 00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:46.860 I don't know. 1005 00:49:46.980 --> 00:49:50.579 It has inspired me to watch the 2nd episode. 1006 00:49:50.760 --> 00:49:54.239 Oh, the 2nd episode is really violent. 1007 00:49:54.300 --> 00:49:56.699 It's wonderful. incredibly glory. 1008 00:49:56.820 --> 00:49:57.960 That's the thing. 1009 00:49:57.960 --> 00:49:59.400 I didn't not... 1010 00:49:59.519 --> 00:50:03.360 I was kind of like, I watched the 1st episode. yeah, that's fine 1011 00:50:03.420 --> 00:50:07.619 and then just didn't watch the rest It wasn't anything of I'm not 1012 00:50:07.619 --> 00:50:07.980 watching this. 1013 00:50:08.039 --> 00:50:11.219 It's like the Simpsons spinoff showcase, right? 1014 00:50:11.280 --> 00:50:16.800 Where in the 1st one, Homer turns up to visit Chief Wickham. 1015 00:50:16.800 --> 00:50:19.679 And it's something like, I can't wait to see what adventures 1016 00:50:19.679 --> 00:50:24.659 you'll have in this exciting new kind of setup or something, this 1017 00:50:24.659 --> 00:50:26.940 exciting new kind of milieu. 1018 00:50:27.059 --> 00:50:29.820 And that's what Capaldi does at the end of the episode. 1019 00:50:30.300 --> 00:50:32.400 First episode of Glass. 1020 00:50:32.460 --> 00:50:36.780 It's just like, here I am, have a leg and I can't wait to see what 1021 00:50:36.780 --> 00:50:38.280 exciting the adventures you have. 1022 00:50:38.519 --> 00:50:40.980 Ram's hot anyway as well. 1023 00:50:41.039 --> 00:50:42.420 I thought I'd mention that. 1024 00:50:42.420 --> 00:50:43.260 Smoking hot. 1025 00:50:43.380 --> 00:50:47.400 I did just realise, though, that I've actually seen more of K9 1026 00:50:47.400 --> 00:50:48.780 than I have seen in class. 1027 00:50:48.840 --> 00:50:54.179 So maybe maybe don't put that in the episode given that you're a 1028 00:50:54.179 --> 00:50:55.800 school teacher and he's supposed to be a teenager. 1029 00:50:55.860 --> 00:50:57.840 Oh, he's not a teenager. 1030 00:50:57.900 --> 00:51:00.179 Oh, no, no, the actors not a teenager. 1031 00:51:00.239 --> 00:51:01.980 He's a teenager. 1032 00:51:02.219 --> 00:51:05.099 He's a TV teenager. what 40. 1033 00:51:05.219 --> 00:51:12.420 So I accidentally outed myself as being 64 years old by accident 1034 00:51:12.420 --> 00:51:18.119 on an episode of Until Star Trek Project, because I can't do that 1035 00:51:18.119 --> 00:51:21.239 the arithmetic that you do with decades. 1036 00:51:21.300 --> 00:51:24.239 You know how normally you go, oh, 1990. 1037 00:51:24.420 --> 00:51:28.500 Oh, okay, so that's 20 years ago, you know, like you do that just 1038 00:51:28.500 --> 00:51:29.099 all the time. 1039 00:51:29.159 --> 00:51:31.559 Like it just doesn't seem possible. 1040 00:51:31.619 --> 00:51:37.679 You know, so I overcompensated and said I was 31 in 1990 when, when 1041 00:51:37.679 --> 00:51:42.300 um, when the Wesley was in Remember Me or whatever it is, whatever 1042 00:51:42.300 --> 00:51:42.900 we were doing. 1043 00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:43.739 I can't even remember. 1044 00:51:43.800 --> 00:51:44.940 Might have been, remember me. 1045 00:51:45.059 --> 00:51:47.579 And Joe was saying how hot he was, and I was saying I was a bit 1046 00:51:47.579 --> 00:51:53.820 old for that at 31, and then Peter said, actually, you know... 1047 00:51:53.820 --> 00:51:56.639 And what I did. 1048 00:51:56.699 --> 00:51:59.340 This is the magic of everything, Stacy. 1049 00:51:59.400 --> 00:52:02.400 I went back and re-recorded myself. 1050 00:52:02.519 --> 00:52:09.780 Saying that line, the edit point happens during the word 1990, just 1051 00:52:09.780 --> 00:52:13.320 to make it seamless. 1052 00:52:13.320 --> 00:52:16.920 And so now if you download that episode, I say the right day, the 1053 00:52:16.920 --> 00:52:17.400 right thing. 1054 00:52:17.460 --> 00:52:20.219 So that's a thing that I can do. 1055 00:52:20.340 --> 00:52:25.679 You could do James's voice as well, so I can just change all of 1056 00:52:25.679 --> 00:52:26.099 his lines. 1057 00:52:26.219 --> 00:52:31.500 You could have hated a story. where you just get your age wrong 1058 00:52:31.500 --> 00:52:33.539 every episode and no one can pin you down. 1059 00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:36.900 This is why I always wonder when I'm listening to episodes, why 1060 00:52:36.900 --> 00:52:37.559 I'm not on them. 1061 00:52:37.619 --> 00:52:38.219 Yeah