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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:46:11

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight to Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast that until 30 minutes ago thought those chonky robot boys were actually robots.

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Well, I did anyway.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm James.

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And I'm Stacy.

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Well, we're back in the past this week doing what the past does best, being a rich, well realised backdrop for some top quality Doctor Who skylarking.

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It's the doctor and a bunch of comedy Vikings versus some big stupid monsters with lots of teeth.

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So let's see who wins, who loses, and who's stupid enough to take odds on the outcome in The Girl Who Died.

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I'm having a little bit of a Todd experience with this one, I have to say.

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I said earlier that series 9 was my least well-known bit of Doctor Who and the one that I'd kind of never gone back to.

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And watching this and next week's episode.

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I think this is extremely good, Doctor Who, and that next week's is kind of in quite a different way.

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What's been your story with series 9, Stacy?

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Yeah, I had a similar thing at the beginning that I sort of watched it and couldn't really keep it in my head, and then when I was writing who was the doctor too, we had to kind of watch everything, and I think I was living in Cameroun at the time, and I've got the DVDs, and I'm trying to like get through Doctor Who, and I got no internet, and I got to this, and I was like, this is, this is really good.

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Like, what is this gem?

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Like, this is this is amazing.

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I feel broadly the same about series 9.

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I think that like it rewards repeated viewings.

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So it was maybe a bit weak, sort of the 1st round, but there's so many layers in there.

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Like, I miss the hybrid stuff. you know, they say, 0 my gosh, a hybrid, like they're, you know, driving a Prius every week.

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And I didn't even notice until like the end.

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I was like, oh, yeah, there's a hybrid around, you know, that stuff.

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So stuff is layered, but I think more subtly than probably it should be.

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So that's, you know, terrible for 1st time viewers, great for long-term viewers.

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So, you know, Y for fans, I guess.

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I absolutely adore this story particularly.

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I just, I find it's my Uber Doctor Who.

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Like it is just absolutely everything I want from Doctor Who is right here in this one single story.

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And it seems very much designed that way, doesn't it?

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It's a Doctor Who story where Clara, in particular, is aware of the tropes that constitute a Doctor Who story and where the doctor is as well, and she's the one noticing the beats as they happen.

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You know, the doctor doesn't have a plan.

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He's doing a thing that's not going to work and that isn't consistent with his character, then he has an aha moment which she actually spots happening.

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And then it becomes the Doctor Who that we love, which is we beat the monsters by being nicer and sillier than them.

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And having a worse special effect.

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It's amazing.

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There's that beautiful moment, speaking of that, where, you know, he's he's given up his, you know, he's got, we just have to leave, like, you know, these people are going to die.

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And then they're talking and he's listening to the baby crying and then baby stops crying and he's decided to stay.

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But I think it's a bit after he's decided to leave.

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What he has decided to do is lead them into a battle and give them a glorious death and that's the best that he can do.

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And then when he hears the baby, Clara.

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That's when Clara put her hand to his face.

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Is that what you're talking about?

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Yeah, because there is a point where he's going to leave when he's in the meeting with the villagers and then he kind of decides to stay when he hears the baby as well.

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I kind of feel like it runs, it runs through some, like, very doctor who he tropes, right?

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like, you know, the beginning of Doctor Who, you know, is basically like, there's pacifists and we have to like stand up and fight, right?

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That sort of like the bar legs.

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And then you get to Patrick Trotton era, and it's like, you know, evil must be flawed, right?

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And so it's kind of like, you know, the doctor's 1st approach is like, you should all just run away.

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And that doesn't work.

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So he's like, okay, now we're going to stand and fight.

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And that doesn't work either.

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And what they're looking for is what you're saying. like, there's a moment where it's going to be this unexpected 3rd way.

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Like, we're not going to do the expected thing.

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And Clara knows that's coming and the doctor knows it's going to happen even though he has no idea what it's going to be.

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And you're right. there's that moment, you can see it, and it's, like, it's really shutting behind the curtain, how Doctor Who works, I think.

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And it does something that a few other scripts in this era do, where the opening teas is setting up the premise of the episode, because they've just liberated some other planet, and, you know, Clara's been in the spider mines for too long and she's got a love bug that's going to suck her brain out through her face, et cetera, et cetera.

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Um, and Clara raises the question, what happens to people after we save them?

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And the doctor's like, well, you know, I can't do everything.

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I can just give people a chance.

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And then this story, the overarching story sort of explores how that works when you take away the TARDIS, you take away the sonic sunglasses and all you have is the local technology, local knowledge, and people at your disposal and can, you know, can that still work, which is, Yeah, it is doctor in microcosm. you know, saving the universe with a kettle and some string.

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Yeah.

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What's funny is it reminds me of Frontios.

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Remember?

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Frontios has this thing, which is never kind of mentioned before and never comes up again, that the doctor shouldn't be interfering in Frontios because it's, you know, on the boundaries of our knowledge.

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It's far, far in the future, and he can't interfere because whatever he does will have massive ramifications.

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And then he interferes anyway and just tells them not to tell anyone.

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And so here the problem is it's not the usual sort of fixed point in time or any of that sort of nonsense.

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The idea is that he can only do things he says that cause ripples rather than causing big waves.

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And so that's initially why he wants to leave.

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Remember, that's how he couches what happens if the Maya gets beaten in battle by the villagers, that that causes enough ways to potentially change history.

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And it just sort of turns out that making fun of the Maya is fine.

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And they'll just sort of go away with their tails between their legs and we're okay.

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Um, so here where we're doing that, we're looking at what the doctor normally does and what the consequences are. in a way that we probably haven't done since the specials.

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And I think this does a better job of that, perhaps than the specials.

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Yeah, I think that opening teaser is, like you say, it's this little microcosm of Doctor Who story that happens in like 2 minutes.

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And I love that it kind of, it makes the point that like we just leave it hanging.

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It's like, no, we solve the problem today.

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Yeah, they can come back.

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Like, you know, they're always going to come back.

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This is not a I wiped them from the universe because they come back anywhere even when he does that.

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So it's kind of like, this is it.

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It's kind of like, yeah, I feel like it's like Tom Baker and Santara Experiment being like, not today, thank you.

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And it's kind of like, that's Doctor Who, right?

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It's like, yeah, you know, if you try again, I'll stop you next time too.

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I'm getting some incredible Tom Baker vibes from Capaldi in this episode as well.

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Like really, really strong, I think.

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So this season seems to be examining who the doctor is.

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And so we go back and relitigate the Daleks and genesis of the Daleks in the 1st 2 parter.

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In the 2nd 2 part, we see the doctor in sort of Patrick Trouton style, base under siege.

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It doesn't really go much beyond that, I think, but it at least gets us seeing the doctor do very doctor-ish things and Capaldi doing them in particular.

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But here I think there's a real proper analysis of what the doctor does and how he beats his enemies.

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It's that weird thing that almost breaks the show, isn't it?

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Where Clara says you always win.

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You always win, and that's what you're good at, win, you know, go and win because that's what you do best.

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But I think, I think it's how he wins.

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That's the important thing that that's established.

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And it's a sort of homesy thing, isn't it?

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The we win by being more fun than the villains.

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Yeah, I mean, I find it interesting that that, I mean, it's like, yes, the doctor always wins, but there's usually like a cost paid, right?

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And even in the previous story, right?

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It's like, you know, like basically like O'Donnell, you know, dies along the way, and this is very tragic and so on, but it's sort of like, well, that's just how Doctor Who is.

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You can't really do anything about that.

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And this time around, they spend a lot of time establishing all the trips in Doctor Who, and then they go and break the rules.

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And it's really clear that last 6 minutes.

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They're like, oh, we're throwing it all out.

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We have shown you piece by piece, how it all works, and then we're going to throw the whole thing away, and we are breaking the rules, and we are keeping the guest character alive this time, and we're going to see what happens now.

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It's disaster.

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I mean, it even breaks the episode itself.

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The episode is called The Girl Who Died.

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And the couple goes, well, I don't care what the episode title is.

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She's not going to die.

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And in a way as well.

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This...

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A shield is deaf and Clara's death are bound very closely together.

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And so Sheldon will appear in 4 episodes this season, 3 or four, right?

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And in the 3rd episode, like we see her going through the future, don't we?

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We finally see her at the very end of the universe and she's still with us.

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But doing this tuition does lead to Clarence Dare.

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And um, something else that is interesting about that for me is, of course, the doctor here is motivated by um, Lofty's crying baby.

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And when, when um, we do see a shilder again in the modern day and the moments leading up to Clara's death and the doctor is railing against that and saying that his, I think he uses the phrase reign of terror, actually, like my reign of terror, no, no bounds, and Clara's response is, your reign of terror will stop at the 1st crying child.

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And, you know, it was only watching this a 2nd time that I kind of got that link.

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And it's actually why things like things in the day of the doctor with Clara often asked me if I dream and it's like, well, that has not.

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No, she hasn't.

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She hasn't asked you that once.

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And it's like, I love it when the production team can weave this stuff through in just sort of natural moments and then pick up on it later.

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And it's important in this episode, but it is such a devastatingly clever line in the later episode as well.

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And I do remember like at the time this went out, and of course, Maisie Williams, hugely popular in Game of Thrones, there were people who were very critical of her performance in this, and I didn't get that at the time, and I don't get it now.

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I think she is brilliant and subtle and witty and likeable.

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And I think everyone just wanted to run like running around with a sword and stabbing things like she does in Game of Thrones.

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But it's like she's an actor.

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She can do other things.

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Yeah, but I think I think partly the backlashes because of that, but also that's a very deliberate choice.

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The character is a different character every time you see her.

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Here, she is a child.

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She is a teenager and she is innocent and afraid.

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And then when you see her next week, you know, she, it's been what, 800 years, and she can't remember her past or what it was to love or or have, you know, human emotion, basically.

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And then when you meet her again later in the season, she's become something else again, in response to what the doctor's done to her.

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Like, it's a really actually quite a strong progression through those different characters for her, I think.

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Well, I think they play that out in the final scene, right?

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When you see her face, you know, the background spinning around, she gets from sort of happy to angry to determine, and it just looks on her face.

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Like the face is not cutting away there.

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Yeah, it's really good, isn't it?

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Because we're going around her.

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Like we're going around her with the background.

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And the 1st time we see her, she's happy.

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Then we go around her back and then we see her and she's sadder and then the camera just goes straight on her face and doesn't let go and that's where we see a real change in her expression.

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Yeah, she kind of hardens.

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Yeah.

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And then we get, and then we get to be continued.

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So that sets her up as something really quite terrifying and we don't quite know why.

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But I think the thing that she does is she tracks the doctor.

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And so next week, we will see how much like the doctor she is.

154
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And then, um, and then the following time, in Face the Raven, she has devoted herself to staying behind to help the people that the doctor leaves behind when he, um, runs off at the end of an episode.

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And, and you know the moment, there's a moment where he's got his 2000 year diary in this and he's been looking up the mire.

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And I just couldn't help thinking of Ashildi's journal of me's journal, the following episode.

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You know, both of them have been alive for so long that they have to rely on written words on a page in order to just remind themselves of what's been happening.

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And that's kind of the 1st hint of that here, but we won't see it pay off till next week.

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Well, he gives it that look at the beginning, right?

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When he enters the village and he catches and he's, you can tell he's like, I know, I know this person from somewhere and it's so obvious he's recognised her from his life, but he hasn't quite clued in.

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And then he's like, I know you from somewhere, and then he let at the end, he's realised why he knows her.

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There's a moment too, where he's talking with Clara and says something about immortality and then a shilde breaks into the conversation.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And so it's that thing.

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And I think it's a very moffity thing.

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Like, I think this is a very Matheson script, but it's a very moffety thing to do that sort of throwaway idea that premonition is just remembering things in the wrong order.

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There's no that Moffat didn't write that.

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And so he's just remembered things backwards.

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Her becoming immortal, has repercussions into the past as well as into the into the future.

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And I think that's really just excellent.

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And, and I mean, why does he save her?

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And it seems to me that he saves her because he's thinking of Clara.

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He says that, doesn't he?

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That look on your face and the anger and kindness and there's going to be a day where, you know, even remembering them hurts me so much. barely breathe.

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And that's why he saved her.

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Like, a show is a storyteller, a writer, and the Moffat thing is, isn't it, to say, we're telling a story.

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Actually, no, that story is not good enough.

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Let's tell another one and it happens twice here.

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You know, the story is, the doctor trains them all up and they horribly defeat the Maya in some terrible way, like, because it's never going to be, they all get killed.

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That's not going to happen to Doctor Who story.

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But like they fight the Maya and then for some stupid reason they win.

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Then we go, no, actually forget that.

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Let's do the story where they make fun of the Maya.

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And Shilda does what the story title promises dies for the sake of the town that she loves.

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And then we go actually, no, no, let's not do that.

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Let's let her live because Clara, I think.

187
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The story did have an interesting development in regards to that.

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It was originally called Valkyrie, and the idea was that the Maya would actually abduct all the women in the village to crossbreed with them, thus creating hybrids.

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And yeah, yeah, there was a there was a collective squirm just there.

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And reading between the lines and the complete history.

191
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Moffat went, um, one, Jamie, I think you've gone a bit literal on the hybrid thing and to also just no.

192
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So that then became flipped on its head. because they started discussing doing a dad's army story with like, you know, the Vikings left behind.

193
00:17:38.460 --> 00:17:49.019
It's like, okay, well, for that, they need to abduct the men and they need, you know, Odin needs to drink a shot of testosterone and adrenaline, which is just like...

194
00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:50.640
And nothing sucks.

195
00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:55.259
It was at that point, like, it had a number of working titles.

196
00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:57.180
The 1st one was Valkyrie.

197
00:17:57.240 --> 00:18:00.119
The 2nd was The All Fathers Army.

198
00:18:00.180 --> 00:18:01.619
Oh no.

199
00:18:03.180 --> 00:18:06.059
And then it became Ragnarok.

200
00:18:06.660 --> 00:18:08.940
That's been a working title before.

201
00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:21.119
Yeah, which that version of the script is much closer, but there's still a few differences where instead of using the emergency medical kit, the doctor takes her to Khan.

202
00:18:21.180 --> 00:18:22.859
Oh okay.

203
00:18:24.420 --> 00:18:27.119
We could always do with more Claire Higgins.

204
00:18:27.180 --> 00:18:28.259
Yes.

205
00:18:28.980 --> 00:18:35.339
Yeah, I find this really interesting because I think fundamentally, the episode is about storytelling, right?

206
00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:54.299
And it's about, you know, like you've got like a shilder who is the storyteller, but then also you puncture the Myra's story of like how fierce they are. and so on with like a really terrible story. like, um, and I love that they kind of like they take like this new series effect, like this, this disguising a classic series effect.

207
00:18:54.420 --> 00:18:56.220
Like, I just feel like that's such great things.

208
00:18:56.279 --> 00:19:03.299
And it kind of says, yeah, Doctor Who works really well, but it's kind of like, you know, classic series storytelling and and like, you know, just how powerful that is.

209
00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:04.680
And I just, I absolutely adore this.

210
00:19:04.740 --> 00:19:11.160
And every episode so far has been about telling stories.

211
00:19:11.220 --> 00:19:25.200
Like magician's apprentice and which is familiar is all about the function of the companions and the villains and also the doctor teaching Davros the idea of mercy through a parable of himself, which is kind of weird.

212
00:19:25.259 --> 00:19:32.759
Then you've got the Fisher King who gets into your brain using the written word and makes you tell his story.

213
00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:36.539
And the doctor even says to the fisher king last week. is where your story ends.

214
00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:44.460
So yeah, it's been very literary and analytical of Doctor Who so far this season.

215
00:19:44.519 --> 00:19:55.200
And I do remember at the time I kind of thinking, I wonder, you know, what the people who don't own the Doctor Who Cookbook by Gary Downey are making of all this.

216
00:19:55.619 --> 00:19:57.599
But I've said this before.

217
00:19:57.660 --> 00:19:59.880
I then go, I don't care because I'm enjoying that.

218
00:19:59.940 --> 00:20:01.559
Let us have this one.

219
00:20:01.740 --> 00:20:04.200
Like we can have this season.

220
00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:21.839
Right, so um, Odin, who is played very, very well by David Schofield.

221
00:20:21.900 --> 00:20:30.000
No criticism to David Schofield was originally cast with another actor, and it's exactly who you, it's exactly who you think.

222
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:32.220
God bless it.

223
00:20:32.700 --> 00:20:34.440
Oh, wow.

224
00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:35.519
Correct.

225
00:20:35.579 --> 00:20:47.160
Unfortunately, shortly before filming, he collapsed on stage as King Lear and was diagnosed with a heart condition and it's like maybe don't maybe don't work for a bit.

226
00:20:47.220 --> 00:20:48.359
Yes.

227
00:20:48.420 --> 00:20:50.220
So it was to be Brian Blessed.

228
00:20:50.279 --> 00:20:52.559
Maisie Williams was cast first.

229
00:20:52.619 --> 00:20:57.059
She was the main guest star, but then it's like, oh, we're doing a story with Odin.

230
00:20:57.119 --> 00:20:59.039
We need someone a bit like Brian Blessed.

231
00:20:59.099 --> 00:21:01.559
Has anybody asked Brian Blessed?

232
00:21:01.859 --> 00:21:09.059
That thing where he appears in the sky in the Monty Python and the Holy Grail sort of cloud.

233
00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:11.099
He's so great.

234
00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:12.480
It's so surprising.

235
00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:14.279
I mean...

236
00:21:14.339 --> 00:21:18.779
Matheson stuff has been funny before, but this is really, really good.

237
00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:24.240
So, you know, like the yo-yo is the doctor's way of kind of impressing them with technology.

238
00:21:24.299 --> 00:21:26.220
And like Clara's seen it before.

239
00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:28.319
It's like, oh, it's not the yo-yo is it?

240
00:21:28.380 --> 00:21:30.720
And then he does the voice.

241
00:21:30.779 --> 00:21:37.680
And then, like, when the big Odin appears in the sky and he tries something with the yo-yo and it fails.

242
00:21:37.980 --> 00:21:41.880
He goes, it's meant to do that. and he like, he's being Odin voice.

243
00:21:41.940 --> 00:21:49.740
Like, it's it's so wonderfully brilliant and he's so wonderfully crap and that's kind of the thing about Doctor Who.

244
00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:54.539
You know, like his own his own special effects are a yo-yo.

245
00:21:54.599 --> 00:22:00.839
You know, it's so homespun and so crummy compared to what the Maya can come up with.

246
00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:02.880
Literally held together with a piece of string.

247
00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:03.839
Yes.

248
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:08.220
But that is such a great visual.

249
00:22:08.279 --> 00:22:10.859
It's so superbly funny and brilliant.

250
00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:15.240
All that business that he does is one of the reasons why he's my favourite doctor.

251
00:22:16.140 --> 00:22:18.660
And he's a very Tom thing.

252
00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:24.180
Like, he's channelling Tom all the time here, I think, and doing Tom's voice from time to time and stuff.

253
00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:33.180
Like, he just gets what works as the doctrine, what the role is. given that this is a show about that, he's kind of the perfect person to do it.

254
00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:37.500
I mean, we said it's literally, this is like a short story.

255
00:22:37.619 --> 00:22:48.779
Simon often complains that the new series of Doctor Who produces sort of 45 minute episodes that are just compressed for partters, but this isn't that, is it?

256
00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:50.039
This is like a short story.

257
00:22:50.099 --> 00:22:51.960
It takes place over one night.

258
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:53.819
The doctor sort of turns up.

259
00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:59.039
There's a problem and he solves it in a very doctor-ish way.

260
00:22:59.099 --> 00:23:01.440
And I think next week is that as well.

261
00:23:01.500 --> 00:23:04.500
Like the scale of the story, the complexity of the story.

262
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:14.940
And the fact that it is about something more than just the action makes it, I think, a perfect new series structure for these 2 episodes.

263
00:23:15.059 --> 00:23:33.000
Yeah, I think I think even even though they have it to be continued and they have the parallel titles, they don't feel like two palves of a two-parter, and I mean, you had very different kind of halves of a two-parter in the under the lake, two-parter, only because of the time jump, but like this feels like 2 separate stories that have a linking theme and a linking kind of character.

264
00:23:33.180 --> 00:23:40.019
Tom Spillsbury made a comment about this when we're talking about the season in one of the Dalek episodes at the beginning of the season.

265
00:23:40.079 --> 00:23:45.480
It would have been much more interesting if these hadn't been a two-parter.

266
00:23:45.539 --> 00:23:54.000
If this story had occurred, maybe where it is, and then part 2 had occurred after the Zygon 2 parter.

267
00:23:54.059 --> 00:24:02.339
So you leave her doing her own thing, you come back and see the impact instead of immediately coming back to the character.

268
00:24:02.460 --> 00:24:06.420
Yeah, yeah, I've I've long held that opinion as well.

269
00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:10.380
And, you know, she could have even had a cameo in the Zygon 2 parter.

270
00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:12.539
Like, um, like Billy Piper.

271
00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:15.599
Yeah, like Billy Piper in Partners in Crime.

272
00:24:15.660 --> 00:24:16.980
You just go, hold on, what?

273
00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:22.079
And then, you know, you go, you go back to her story with Sam Swift.

274
00:24:22.140 --> 00:24:26.640
Do you know, I actually tend to disagree, and I'll tell you why.

275
00:24:26.700 --> 00:24:32.220
I think that what happens next week is that we see a very different type of Doctor Who.

276
00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:39.420
So this one is the classic Doctor Who episode that hits all those beads.

277
00:24:39.480 --> 00:25:00.119
And now we get a picture of the doctor, not as a sort of comedy hero, not as the hero of The Curse of Fatal Death, but as the character that both Russell and Stephen Moffatt kind of want him to be, which is this sort of tired, jaded person.

278
00:25:00.180 --> 00:25:18.359
And so we get, we get the fun doctor in one episode and then in the next episode we get a much more interesting and nuanced portrayal of what the doctor is, not just from the way he behaves in the story, but from the similarities between him and me.

279
00:25:18.420 --> 00:25:32.279
And so we do get to see her back later in the season, but I think that allowing us to forget about her for a bit in the middle of the season and then bringing her back for Face the Raven is the right choice.

280
00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:34.980
And I think that these 2 form a brilliant pair.

281
00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:38.460
And like some time has passed, hasn't it, between the two?

282
00:25:38.519 --> 00:25:45.779
Like the doctor has been and seen her somewhere else, like in a leper colony, it'll come up next week.

283
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:50.880
He's actually visited her and looked at her from a distance to see how she's getting on at some point.

284
00:25:50.940 --> 00:26:07.019
So both for him and for her sometime has passed between these two, but they're next to each other, I think, because they're, they're mirrors of one another or they're, there's a really salient contrast between them that says something about the doctor as a character.

285
00:26:07.140 --> 00:26:15.839
I think I think it makes a contrast much more stark having them right next to each other that like that so that impact would have been lost you.

286
00:26:15.900 --> 00:26:20.039
I suppose, but I like to play what if.

287
00:26:20.099 --> 00:26:20.880
Yeah, yeah.

288
00:26:20.940 --> 00:26:21.599
Oh, sure.

289
00:26:21.660 --> 00:26:21.900
Yeah.

290
00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:28.740
Yeah, I think I think the bit that really stands out to me is the bit when he looks in the in the water and sees his reflection.

291
00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:36.480
And I remember Moffatt saying like, oh, we're going to explain why, you know, he looks like Peter Capaldi, who looks like, you know, he's been in Doctor Who before.

292
00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:38.160
And I'm like, well, you don't need to do this.

293
00:26:38.220 --> 00:26:44.160
We didn't need to explain why the 6th doctor looked like that guard that like, you know, Peter Davidson wants that.

294
00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:45.960
Like, this is this, we don't need it.

295
00:26:46.019 --> 00:26:47.519
And then they put it in deep breaths.

296
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:50.220
And in deep breaths, the doctor is like, who frowned this face for me?

297
00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:51.660
I'm like, oh, okay, that's fine.

298
00:26:51.720 --> 00:26:52.140
That's enough.

299
00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:56.400
You've acknowledged that, you know, you've met this face before or whatever, that's good enough.

300
00:26:56.460 --> 00:26:58.740
And I was really against them going for this.

301
00:26:58.799 --> 00:27:00.839
And then when they did it, I find it amazing.

302
00:27:00.900 --> 00:27:03.000
I actually, it makes me tear up every time.

303
00:27:03.059 --> 00:27:09.660
I think the idea that like, like, the doctor needs to hold himself to the mark and he's not actually strong enough.

304
00:27:09.720 --> 00:27:11.460
And so he's like, you know what, who was?

305
00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:12.359
The 10th doctor.

306
00:27:12.420 --> 00:27:13.380
He was way stronger than I was.

307
00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:16.079
So I'm just going to remind myself of that.

308
00:27:16.140 --> 00:27:20.099
And it's like, he also needs a companion who will just cut through and tell him what to do.

309
00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:21.299
And that's not Clara.

310
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:21.960
It's Donna.

311
00:27:22.019 --> 00:27:25.680
And so he's just he's just drawing on this previous strength that he used to have.

312
00:27:25.740 --> 00:27:31.380
And I think that sort of we as viewers recognise as like, you know, yeah, that was in a way Doctor Who, in its heyday.

313
00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:39.779
And so it's like, that's just such a, like the moment you see David Tennant reaching up the hand from the TARDIS in flashback, you're like, oh, yeah, this is a much more confident doctor.

314
00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:52.079
Like, this doctor has been very uncertain that he, like, has to have his predecessor called Clara the Telephone in the 1st episode, can kind of like set things straight because he's not really sure who he is or what he is, you know, he's a good man in the previous season and so forth.

315
00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:54.480
And he finally kind of gets that certainty here.

316
00:27:54.539 --> 00:27:56.819
And the 1st thing he does is he makes a terrible mistake.

317
00:27:56.940 --> 00:27:59.220
And he's like, I'm just gonna say the next person I see.

318
00:27:59.220 --> 00:28:00.359
And it's a bad idea.

319
00:28:00.420 --> 00:28:02.279
And even admits it in this episode.

320
00:28:02.339 --> 00:28:07.019
I find it really funny that he's like at the end when they get back to the Tartars, he's like, yeah, I was angry, I was emotional.

321
00:28:07.079 --> 00:28:09.119
And he's like, oh, yeah, no, I've done terrible thing.

322
00:28:09.180 --> 00:28:17.279
And like, oh, I thought they were just gonna like, you know, I'd be like, oh, no, I did the right thing for now, and we would learn consequences, but no, he's already figured them out, then they're not good.

323
00:28:17.339 --> 00:28:29.039
I have this thing, though, about those doctor rules, like the rules which the doctor is supposed to follow and he follows them by not saving people by not doing a good thing.

324
00:28:29.099 --> 00:28:34.259
And those rules seem to me to be the sort of thing that I want the doctor to break.

325
00:28:34.319 --> 00:28:44.400
And it's the reason that I'm not on board very much with waters of Mars because I think, the doctor did the right thing by saving those people on the bass.

326
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:50.400
And here, like saving someone's life and you can save someone's life is absolutely a thing.

327
00:28:50.460 --> 00:28:54.720
Look at how central she was to that village.

328
00:28:54.720 --> 00:29:12.480
And, yeah, like, like, I want him to break those big giant rules in order to save people and we're there with chuckles, you know, crying over her body and responding to her coming back to life.

329
00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:17.880
And there's no doubt in my mind that he does the right thing by making that happen.

330
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:20.640
On that point with Waters of Mars.

331
00:29:20.700 --> 00:29:27.960
I think the difference is that in the waters of Mars, the doctor breaks the rules to prove that he can break the rules.

332
00:29:28.019 --> 00:29:29.640
It's to prove that he's in charge.

333
00:29:30.119 --> 00:29:38.160
The doctor here breaks the rules because of his affection and gratitude towards a shelder.

334
00:29:38.220 --> 00:29:42.299
And at the end, back in the Tartars when he's saying, I think I've made a mistake.

335
00:29:42.359 --> 00:29:53.279
I'm reminded of Jamie Matheson's earlier script, Mummy on the Orient Express, where he says to Clara at the end, sometimes the only choices you have are bad ones, but you still need to choose.

336
00:29:53.460 --> 00:30:09.420
You know, Jamie Matheson, I think, only writes 4 or 5 scripts, but he comes in and immediately slams down, this is who I think the doctor is, and that is internally consistent across all of his work.

337
00:30:09.480 --> 00:30:17.640
I was having lunch this week with friend of the podcast, Anson, who said he wished that Jamie Matheson had taken over from producer of Stephen Moffat.

338
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:20.400
He's like, I'm not saying that is a negative thing to Chris Chipnall.

339
00:30:20.460 --> 00:30:21.420
I enjoy bits of that.

340
00:30:21.539 --> 00:30:26.880
Actually, funny thing, he was saying, I rewatched the power of the doctor recently and I had, what do you call it?

341
00:30:26.940 --> 00:30:29.099
I had my Brad moment and I'm like, the Todd experience.

342
00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:32.819
He said, yes, I had a to experience. a spread moment.

343
00:30:33.779 --> 00:30:35.640
Sorry, Todd.

344
00:30:35.700 --> 00:30:37.500
He got one letter right.

345
00:30:37.559 --> 00:30:47.220
But yeah, it is this thing of the choices you may have a bad and you may regret them, but you make the choice that is right in the moment.

346
00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:50.640
You see, I think it's more complicated than that.

347
00:30:50.700 --> 00:30:56.160
I think he saves a shielder because he's terrified of losing Clara. he basically says that.

348
00:30:56.220 --> 00:31:15.180
And I think David Tennant's doctor saves the people in waters of Mars because he can't bear listening to them suffer and, you know, he's walking away from the base trying to do the right thing and he hears over their audio people screaming and crying and terrified and he can't just, you know, like, he's not just doing it to Big None himself.

349
00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:20.220
He's doing it because of the kindness and compassion that characterise him as a character.

350
00:31:20.279 --> 00:31:23.160
Can you explain that to Time Lord Victorious?

351
00:31:23.940 --> 00:31:26.160
Well, that's the thing though.

352
00:31:26.220 --> 00:31:32.279
When he gets back to Earth, it's about, well, I broke the rules and I have the power and I saved you little people.

353
00:31:32.339 --> 00:31:38.160
Yeah, I think when he goes back, it's to help people and then the idea is that the power corrupts him.

354
00:31:38.220 --> 00:31:45.119
And yeah, it's like, okay, so yeah, the power to switch the trolly onto the track that has no one on it is that's going to corrupt you.

355
00:31:45.180 --> 00:31:45.359
No.

356
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:49.740
It's switching the trolly onto the track with the people is going to corrupt you.

357
00:31:49.799 --> 00:31:51.779
So you know what?

358
00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:55.079
Matheson's next and last story is.

359
00:31:55.140 --> 00:31:56.279
Oxygen.

360
00:31:56.339 --> 00:31:56.579
Yes.

361
00:31:57.000 --> 00:31:59.460
He has a good track record.

362
00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:00.299
He's really good.

363
00:32:00.420 --> 00:32:01.859
Four for four.

364
00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:20.519
Yeah, I mean, the doctor has this scene where he's shouting at the time lords, which is such a incongruous scene in New Who, that, you know, you see this in classic who in, like, Attack of the Cybern or whatever, and you start shouting at the sky being like, oh, I see, it's you. you know, and this time he's like, and if you have a problem with that, like, you know, like, yeah, yeah.

365
00:32:20.579 --> 00:32:21.839
So good.

366
00:32:21.960 --> 00:32:22.619
It's so good.

367
00:32:22.740 --> 00:32:25.440
He's just superb in this.

368
00:32:25.500 --> 00:32:35.759
Like a show that's about who the doctor is as a character has to have Capoldi is the lead because he's just the doctor in a way that maybe almost no one else is, I think.

369
00:32:48.299 --> 00:33:01.619
Also, at the time, there was a bit of criticism of following one character through time, as in a shilder, but this pair of episodes makes me think of the arc.

370
00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:02.039
Yeah.

371
00:33:02.039 --> 00:33:13.619
You know, and even though like there are, there are dodgy aspects to the arc, it's often held up as, with the classic series, one of the few times we do something time travel-y with time travel.

372
00:33:14.099 --> 00:33:26.339
And, you know, I think it's such an interesting idea, especially we've been discussing since fear of a Welsh planet that it's hard to do a story with a time travel show.

373
00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:28.200
Yeah, yeah.

374
00:33:28.259 --> 00:33:37.200
But to then be able to do one over 1000s of years because you have another immortal character, it immediately opens up the universe.

375
00:33:37.259 --> 00:33:46.740
And it's kind of a shame that maybe they haven't considered it, maybe she hasn't been available, but I would have loved to see Maisie Williams give us a few appearances here and there over the years.

376
00:33:46.799 --> 00:33:51.420
They should just have her in the background every time we go to Earth and she's just standing around.

377
00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:55.799
You should just done lots of pickup shots to slot into episodes all over the place.

378
00:33:55.859 --> 00:34:01.079
I'm still waiting for the inevitable 4 box sets from Big Finnish, Clara and me.

379
00:34:01.140 --> 00:34:02.279
Yeah, yes.

380
00:34:02.339 --> 00:34:02.579
Yeah.

381
00:34:02.579 --> 00:34:07.859
It seems like it was set up just for that, doesn't it?

382
00:34:08.519 --> 00:34:21.239
Some of the criticism you talk about, I think, is partly like they were going to the well a bit often about like, you know, immortal beings who are going to be around at the end of time or whatever, and, you know, you've got Captain Jack, and then you've got like, you know, like Orson Pink, you know, at the end of time.

383
00:34:21.300 --> 00:34:23.219
Like, there's a lot of people turning up at the end of time.

384
00:34:23.219 --> 00:34:26.280
And, you know, the doctor gets to the end of the home, will it be this week?

385
00:34:26.340 --> 00:34:27.480
And oh, it's leading me this time.

386
00:34:27.539 --> 00:34:30.539
And, you know, it's like, there was quite a bit of that floating around.

387
00:34:30.599 --> 00:34:35.940
And I think with hindsight, it actually feels like probably it's more of a riff that Moffatt was interested in.

388
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:41.159
But at the time it just felt like, okay, well, which of the many characters is going to turn up at the end of the universe this week?

389
00:34:41.219 --> 00:34:47.519
Well, it's like when you die and like aliens are falling over themselves to kind of, you know, kind of harvest your soul or whatever.

390
00:34:47.579 --> 00:34:48.420
Is it missy?

391
00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:50.280
Is it the people from Twice Upon a Time?

392
00:34:50.340 --> 00:34:52.139
Is it the people from Demons of the Punjab?

393
00:34:52.199 --> 00:34:56.880
You know, they're all there trying to kind of record the event, I think.

394
00:34:56.940 --> 00:35:03.360
Is it the people who bring Harry Kim back from the dead or is it the people who bring Harry Kim's not girlfriend back from the dead?

395
00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:08.280
I love it when Voyager gets to the point where it starts copying itself.

396
00:35:08.340 --> 00:35:09.659
Sorry, different podcast.

397
00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:13.619
I think what I want to really know is like, does the Maya technology last till the end of time?

398
00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:18.000
I mean, the Maya create this immortal being.

399
00:35:18.059 --> 00:35:20.280
Well, but aren't they using it all themselves all the time?

400
00:35:20.340 --> 00:35:20.940
I, you know.

401
00:35:21.539 --> 00:35:22.920
Why aren't there a lot of Maya kind of?

402
00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:28.139
You know, like hanging around in that scene with the dogs are amazing at the very end, you would think.

403
00:35:28.500 --> 00:35:48.119
One thing that I think is worth mentioning is how doctor-ish Clara is, and I think it links in with what you were saying, Stacy, where Donna was there to push back against the doctor, but Clara can't do that because she is so much like the doctor.

404
00:35:48.179 --> 00:35:58.139
And it's that scene with her talking the Maya into leaving at the very beginning, which I think is just extraordinary.

405
00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:07.739
And there's even a moment where Amaya walks past her really quickly, like really close and she sort of gets out of the way and she goes, oh, hello, as if she's Tom.

406
00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:10.860
You know, like it's the it's the most amazing thing.

407
00:36:10.980 --> 00:36:17.880
And so, and so Maisie gets to be her companion and do the silly thing while she's talking the aliens away.

408
00:36:17.940 --> 00:36:22.199
Like she nearly is the doctor enough to solve this problem at the very beginning.

409
00:36:22.260 --> 00:36:25.619
It basically works except for a shoulder, right?

410
00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:27.719
Which is kind of like the season as a whole.

411
00:36:27.780 --> 00:36:31.980
It's like...

412
00:36:31.980 --> 00:36:40.380
It's like sort of an inverted version of the demons where, you know, Joe jumping in front and saying, no, like actually solves the problem.

413
00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:44.340
Whereas the time lord's standing there going, oh, but no, no, you really shouldn't.

414
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:49.500
You really shouldn't wipe out this planet because it's nice and da da da and Joe's and the demon's like, no, I'm going to wipe it out.

415
00:36:49.559 --> 00:36:51.000
And Joe Jobs.

416
00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:51.480
Oh, no.

417
00:36:51.539 --> 00:37:01.019
So we've kind of got the subversion of that where usually the companion steps in like with a leaf, for instance, in Rings of Back of 10 and solves the problem that the alien god can't solve.

418
00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:10.019
But this time, the human and very understandable reaction of a shelder who's just seen a lot of her friends die is actually what creates the episode's problem.

419
00:37:10.079 --> 00:37:12.000
It's so good, isn't it?

420
00:37:12.059 --> 00:37:13.079
It's so good.

421
00:37:13.139 --> 00:37:26.460
And you kind of forget that it very, very quickly establishes how fond she is of those warriors and how fond they are of her with them arriving back and they've all arrived back.

422
00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:34.380
No one has died, you know, at the beginning of the episode, bringing the doctor and Clara back, and then they're killed, and like, she's still a child.

423
00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:36.119
She's not Aria Stark.

424
00:37:36.179 --> 00:37:43.019
I mean, she is a frightened girl, but like she's so, she's so fierce and so fantastic at that moment.

425
00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:54.780
And I think the other really, really good acting moment she gets is that speech and it's a backstory exposition speech about who she is and why the village matters to her.

426
00:37:54.960 --> 00:38:02.760
And she just delivers it like she's thinking it up as she's going along.

427
00:38:02.820 --> 00:38:04.079
It's so well done.

428
00:38:04.139 --> 00:38:06.239
She absolutely nails it.

429
00:38:06.300 --> 00:38:18.900
Like, she's an outsider and a nerd and someone who's into storytelling, someone who doesn't conform to gender norms either.

430
00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:29.340
She's an outsider and she knows that wherever else she goes that isn't this village, she's going to be an outsider.

431
00:38:29.400 --> 00:38:31.920
She's not gonna get the love and protection that she gets here.

432
00:38:31.980 --> 00:38:39.420
And I think too, that portraying a past, a village, like just a little village full of silly Vikings and stuff.

433
00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:43.800
You know, that those Vikings are people who, who love her.

434
00:38:43.860 --> 00:38:47.340
Like it's so, it's so clear and so well done.

435
00:38:47.460 --> 00:38:56.760
It's interesting what you say about her not conforming to gender norms because in one version of the script, she was married to the village carpenter.

436
00:38:56.820 --> 00:38:57.480
Right.

437
00:38:57.480 --> 00:39:00.000
And he was her front.

438
00:39:00.059 --> 00:39:03.239
Like she was the one that was actually doing all the carpentry.

439
00:39:04.380 --> 00:39:07.440
And he was just the storefront.

440
00:39:07.500 --> 00:39:11.460
Everybody thought he was the carpenter, but it was actually her doing it behind the scenes.

441
00:39:11.519 --> 00:39:16.619
That's awesome Yeah, I think there's something really beautiful about it, I think.

442
00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:17.460
Yeah.

443
00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:32.940
And I think also, we often look back in history and assume that gender roles would have been what they were in our cultures around the 19th century, but it's not necessarily true.

444
00:39:33.059 --> 00:39:36.659
And there's lots of evidence that in Viking settlements.

445
00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:45.780
There is a lot more equity and a lot more sharing of gender roles and tasks than we might have thought.

446
00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:59.280
So I really kind of appreciate that, you know, she does have that comment, but at the same time, no one in the village treats her storytelling as silly or stupid and it's actually, it's actually really respected or the puppetry.

447
00:39:59.340 --> 00:40:08.280
And then, and then, you know, when Lofty's baby's crying, it's lofty comforting the baby, which, you know, we would assume that.

448
00:40:08.340 --> 00:40:11.219
Stealing, why has lofty stolen a baby?

449
00:40:11.280 --> 00:40:13.019
That's so doctored?

450
00:40:13.079 --> 00:40:14.400
Like, that's an almost Matt Smith.

451
00:40:14.519 --> 00:40:15.059
Dr. Fing?

452
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:20.579
just like I can't possibly understand what sort of human interactions. you know, happen around a baby.

453
00:40:20.699 --> 00:40:23.099
So he's stealing it clearly.

454
00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:23.639
Yeah.

455
00:40:23.699 --> 00:40:29.699
And, and, you know, chuckles comforting a shoulder and assuming the doctor is going to make fun of him.

456
00:40:29.699 --> 00:40:43.619
When actually the doctor's just a little bit uncomfortable with such a genuine and raw expression of emotion, like earlier when he realises Clara is alive, he runs up and gives her a thumbs up and says, you know, I'm still not good with the hugging.

457
00:40:43.679 --> 00:40:46.559
Oh, never mind, you know, scoops her up and what have you.

458
00:40:46.619 --> 00:40:52.320
I think there is a lot going on here to kind of, we, I think we've spoken about before.

459
00:40:52.440 --> 00:41:00.480
You know, the past is kind of represented as us, you know, um, sort of theme park historical. thats it.

460
00:41:00.539 --> 00:41:01.500
Thanks, Pete.

461
00:41:01.980 --> 00:41:10.920
But it's kind of also like, well, actually, no, if you, you know, if you look back in history, the social roles were more complex than we often give them credit for.

462
00:41:10.980 --> 00:41:17.519
Yeah, I think it's also that moment it's hinted that like both the doctor and Clara have a bit of a crush on his shoulder. like early on.

463
00:41:17.579 --> 00:41:19.380
And you're just like, oh, fine, your forearm.

464
00:41:19.500 --> 00:41:25.739
Yeah, I feel like this is the only time I think you really see this kind of interest in somebody from Peter Cavaldi's doctor.

465
00:41:25.860 --> 00:41:27.719
And it's like, wait, what?

466
00:41:27.780 --> 00:41:28.619
Did that just really happen?

467
00:41:28.679 --> 00:41:31.139
He's normally very asexual in his presentation.

468
00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:34.920
And so I love this moment and it's just, yeah, they're both into her.

469
00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:44.400
But I mean, I didn't necessarily read it as a sexual per se, but just that they were, you know, they wanted to make their companion.

470
00:41:44.460 --> 00:41:46.199
I think it's sexual.

471
00:41:46.260 --> 00:41:49.019
I think it's meant to be sexual. with Clara.

472
00:41:49.079 --> 00:42:00.119
I'm not sure about the doctor because the doctor and he could just be, you know, it could be the intention that he's kind of covering it up, but he just says, you know, you humans you're obsessed with this, you know.

473
00:42:00.179 --> 00:42:01.559
Yeah.

474
00:42:01.619 --> 00:42:06.539
And again, it's that sort of weird my hobby's you thing as well, which would get a little Clara too.

475
00:42:07.139 --> 00:42:09.480
But that's a great.

476
00:42:09.539 --> 00:42:11.159
I mean that is a great moment.

477
00:42:11.280 --> 00:42:14.820
And I just think, you know, that's going to continue next week, isn't it?

478
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:25.980
where she's going to present as a man for some of the time and then frock up as a woman, you know, in a very kind of girly womanly way at times as well.

479
00:42:26.039 --> 00:42:34.679
And because she's read Malcolm Gladwell and has practised sounding like a man for 10,000 hours or something, she can do it perfectly.

480
00:42:42.059 --> 00:42:55.679
I'd like to say one more thing about casting, because in the role of Heidi, as the doctor nicknames a particular Viking with braided beard, we have Barnaby K, who would later go on to play Wallander.

481
00:42:55.739 --> 00:42:58.139
So the one who's not Kenneth Branner.

482
00:42:58.199 --> 00:42:59.639
Oh okay.

483
00:42:59.699 --> 00:43:00.480
Yeah.

484
00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:02.579
Oh, they've got a Dane in or something, have they?

485
00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:03.960
Of that descent, yes.

486
00:43:04.019 --> 00:43:04.559
Right.

487
00:43:06.659 --> 00:43:11.699
In real life, he's married to Nicola Walker.

488
00:43:11.760 --> 00:43:12.780
Oh my god.

489
00:43:12.840 --> 00:43:15.059
That house must be amazing.

490
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:19.980
Yeah, Livchenka in Big Finish and just an amazing actress in many, many, many other things.

491
00:43:20.039 --> 00:43:25.260
And of course, we've got Ian Conningham as chuckles, and I don't know what else he's done, but I'd like to see more.

492
00:43:25.320 --> 00:43:26.639
Yeah, me too.

493
00:43:28.019 --> 00:43:33.659
Well, I think my last outstanding question is, why are there South American eels in a Viking village?

494
00:43:35.099 --> 00:43:37.019
It's kind of there.

495
00:43:37.079 --> 00:43:38.880
Also, I looked it up.

496
00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:45.239
I think the eels produced like 860 volts and they produced like one amp here for like 2 milliseconds.

497
00:43:45.300 --> 00:43:47.219
Like, it is not going to do what they think it's doing.

498
00:43:47.280 --> 00:43:49.860
Like eels are not that good at conducting.

499
00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:58.139
Is there a line of dialogue where it's like get that stuff from Clara's spacesuit, which will amplify the thing or something like that?

500
00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:07.320
Clearly he's looked at least at the Wikipedia page and has decided there has to be some hand wavy science fiction magic reason why it actually electrocutes people.

501
00:44:07.380 --> 00:44:08.280
It is great.

502
00:44:08.340 --> 00:44:14.159
So I have to say that that resolution is really, really terrific because it's so simple.

503
00:44:14.280 --> 00:44:21.780
And when the doctor hits upon it, he looks like such a madman as well, which is absolutely on points and in character.

504
00:44:21.840 --> 00:44:23.340
But it's that thing.

505
00:44:23.400 --> 00:44:25.079
Like he hears a thing.

506
00:44:25.139 --> 00:44:29.940
He works out that it's eels and right from there he's worked out.

507
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:33.719
Nope, we can win now and he's absolutely nailed it at that moment.

508
00:44:33.780 --> 00:44:35.699
But I love that it turns on eels.

509
00:44:35.760 --> 00:44:41.219
And partly, I think, because Stephen Moffin is a big fan of the word fish as well.

510
00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:44.820
He thinks it's hilarious.

511
00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:47.340
And I think eels is a pretty hilarious word too.

512
00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:56.280
I do also like how they're very dramatically aware eels because when he turns to the craze and says, why did nobody tell me we have eels?

513
00:44:56.340 --> 00:44:57.300
They all bite up.

514
00:44:58.800 --> 00:45:01.320
It's like, hi, here we are.

515
00:45:01.380 --> 00:45:03.780
It heals with jazz hands.

516
00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:09.659
There is one more thing I'd like to mention before we go.

517
00:45:10.199 --> 00:45:15.239
So, Ed Basiljet, the director.

518
00:45:15.300 --> 00:45:16.800
This is not his 1st career.

519
00:45:16.860 --> 00:45:18.119
No.

520
00:45:18.119 --> 00:45:19.559
He was previously a musician.

521
00:45:19.619 --> 00:45:20.820
Yes.

522
00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:22.860
He will go on just before you say this.

523
00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:28.079
He'll go on and do next week's episode and he also does the return of Dr. Mysterio.

524
00:45:28.139 --> 00:45:29.099
Yes.

525
00:45:29.159 --> 00:45:29.880
Yes, that's right.

526
00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:40.500
But way back in the 80s, he was the lead guitarist in a group called The Vapours, who particularly Australian listeners may recognise for their hit song Turning Japanese.

527
00:45:40.559 --> 00:45:41.579
Oh.

528
00:45:42.780 --> 00:45:44.760
That takes me back.

529
00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:48.719
Which, okay. but yes. really is.

530
00:45:48.780 --> 00:45:50.639
That was sort of formative, wasn't it?

531
00:45:50.699 --> 00:45:53.519
Like that was that was our time, I think.

532
00:45:53.579 --> 00:45:55.380
I remember that incredibly well.

533
00:45:55.440 --> 00:46:02.880
So I, and like presumably he was in the film clip for that, because I think the film clip had the meaner, didn't it?

534
00:46:02.940 --> 00:46:08.099
So we may have seen him during our youth, I think, on a telly.

535
00:46:08.159 --> 00:46:08.880
It's pretty amazing.

536
00:46:08.940 --> 00:46:18.840
That's awesome He is also on the board of governors of Coal Hill Academy as well, because he does direct 3 episodes of class.

537
00:46:18.900 --> 00:46:20.760
Maybe the 1st three.

538
00:46:45.420 --> 00:46:48.659
Well, listen, that's all the time we've had for this week.

539
00:46:48.719 --> 00:46:55.860
We'll be back next week for some ennui, lassitude, and general world weariness in The Woman Who Lived.

540
00:46:55.920 --> 00:47:14.340
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts and you can keep up with us on our website, flightthroughentirety.com, where you'll find all our social media links, as well as links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody Interterra, maximum power, and untitled Star Trek project.

541
00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:22.440
Until next time, remember that we're past the Big Bang and dinosaurs now and well into the mounting sense of futility stage.

542
00:47:22.500 --> 00:47:25.559
So relax and enjoy the ride.

543
00:47:25.619 --> 00:47:27.659
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

544
00:47:27.719 --> 00:47:28.920
Good night.

545
00:47:28.980 --> 00:47:30.780
See you soon Bye.

546
00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:38.400
That was Flight Through Entirety.

547
00:47:38.460 --> 00:47:41.519
Sorry, Nathan Botterley, Brendan Jones, James Selwood and Stacy Smith.

548
00:47:41.579 --> 00:47:43.980
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lam.

549
00:47:44.039 --> 00:47:50.820
This episode, eels with jazz hands, was recorded on the 27th of August 2023 and released on the 15th of October.

550
00:47:51.780 --> 00:48:06.239
As is now well known, the girl who died forms the 2nd part of a trilogy, alongside the girl who waited, and next year's shooting Gantware episode, the girl who was just not as well dressed as the doctor. starring Millie Gibson as Ruby Sunday.

551
00:48:12.300 --> 00:48:17.099
Because he does direct three episodes of Class, maybe the first three.

552
00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:19.980
I don't know what that is.

553
00:48:20.099 --> 00:48:21.719
Never heard of it.

554
00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:23.639
You didn't miss much.

555
00:48:25.679 --> 00:48:29.159
I actually kind of liked fast.

556
00:48:29.159 --> 00:48:31.559
I love the class novels.

557
00:48:31.619 --> 00:48:36.000
They wrote 3 novels and I found them in Indonesia and I read them and they're like, these are really good.

558
00:48:36.059 --> 00:48:39.539
Like, that show could have worked. big Finnish audios are quite good too.

559
00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:46.559
Yeah, no, look, on big finish. they work really well Who's who's Quill in Big Finish now?

560
00:48:46.619 --> 00:48:47.159
Someone different.

561
00:48:47.219 --> 00:48:48.000
They recast.

562
00:48:48.119 --> 00:48:49.980
Devla Cohen.

563
00:48:50.099 --> 00:48:50.940
Oh, my God.

564
00:48:51.000 --> 00:48:51.659
Yeah, yeah.

565
00:48:51.780 --> 00:48:56.699
Yeah, the Kitty Angel. and the 1st Phoebe in Good Night, sweetheart.

566
00:48:56.760 --> 00:49:00.000
Wait, isn't Devlico and also Mrs. Watts a face?

567
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:00.719
From...

568
00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:00.960
Yes.

569
00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:01.920
From the Cybermen.

570
00:49:01.980 --> 00:49:04.079
Cybermen, terrible Cybermen, Christmas special.

571
00:49:04.139 --> 00:49:05.519
Yeah, that one.

572
00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:07.019
Yeah, it was great.

573
00:49:07.019 --> 00:49:14.400
I thought you meant the next doctor, that terrible announcement video with Peter Capaldi.

574
00:49:14.460 --> 00:49:17.099
All I saw was he's had hands.

575
00:49:17.159 --> 00:49:22.019
Like you see his hands and he's wearing a wedding ring and I just went, oh my god, he's old and straight.

576
00:49:23.820 --> 00:49:25.739
Oh, it's okay.

577
00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:27.000
Peter Capaldi.

578
00:49:29.880 --> 00:49:39.179
I reckon we probably, we may, in some form or other, and I'm going to be vague in case he sends up as a...

579
00:49:39.179 --> 00:49:42.780
I think, yeah, I think we may do class at some point in the future.

580
00:49:42.900 --> 00:49:43.619
Oh, I see, right.

581
00:49:43.679 --> 00:49:44.099
Right, right.

582
00:49:44.159 --> 00:49:44.880
Yeah.

583
00:49:44.940 --> 00:49:46.260
Like, maybe, maybe.

584
00:49:46.320 --> 00:49:46.860
I don't know.

585
00:49:46.980 --> 00:49:50.579
It has inspired me to watch the 2nd episode.

586
00:49:50.760 --> 00:49:54.239
Oh, the 2nd episode is really violent.

587
00:49:54.300 --> 00:49:56.699
It's wonderful. incredibly glory.

588
00:49:56.820 --> 00:49:57.960
That's the thing.

589
00:49:57.960 --> 00:49:59.400
I didn't not...

590
00:49:59.519 --> 00:50:07.980
I was kind of like, I watched the 1st episode. yeah, that's fine. and then just didn't watch the rest It wasn't anything of I'm not watching this.

591
00:50:08.039 --> 00:50:11.219
It's like the Simpsons spinoff showcase, right?

592
00:50:11.280 --> 00:50:16.800
Where in the 1st one, Homer turns up to visit Chief Wickham.

593
00:50:16.800 --> 00:50:26.940
And it's something like, I can't wait to see what adventures you'll have in this exciting new kind of setup or something, this exciting new kind of milieu.

594
00:50:27.059 --> 00:50:29.820
And that's what Capaldi does at the end of the episode.

595
00:50:30.300 --> 00:50:32.400
First episode of Glass.

596
00:50:32.460 --> 00:50:38.280
It's just like, here I am, have a leg and I can't wait to see what exciting the adventures you have.

597
00:50:38.519 --> 00:50:40.980
Ram's hot anyway as well.

598
00:50:41.039 --> 00:50:42.420
I thought I'd mention that.

599
00:50:42.420 --> 00:50:43.260
Smoking hot.

600
00:50:43.380 --> 00:50:48.780
I did just realise, though, that I've actually seen more of K9 than I have seen in class.

601
00:50:48.840 --> 00:50:55.800
So maybe maybe don't put that in the episode given that you're a school teacher and he's supposed to be a teenager.

602
00:50:55.860 --> 00:50:57.840
Oh, he's not a teenager.

603
00:50:57.900 --> 00:51:00.179
Oh, no, no, the actors not a teenager.

604
00:51:00.239 --> 00:51:01.980
He's a teenager.

605
00:51:02.219 --> 00:51:05.099
He's a TV teenager. what 40.

606
00:51:05.219 --> 00:51:21.239
So I accidentally outed myself as being 64 years old by accident on an episode of Until Star Trek Project, because I can't do that, the arithmetic that you do with decades.

607
00:51:21.300 --> 00:51:24.239
You know how normally you go, oh, 1990.

608
00:51:24.420 --> 00:51:29.099
Oh, okay, so that's 20 years ago, you know, like you do that just all the time.

609
00:51:29.159 --> 00:51:31.559
Like it just doesn't seem possible.

610
00:51:31.619 --> 00:51:42.900
You know, so I overcompensated and said I was 31 in 1990 when, when, um, when the Wesley was in Remember Me or whatever it is, whatever we were doing.

611
00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:43.739
I can't even remember.

612
00:51:43.800 --> 00:51:44.940
Might have been, remember me.

613
00:51:45.059 --> 00:51:53.820
And Joe was saying how hot he was, and I was saying I was a bit old for that at 31, and then Peter said, actually, you know...

614
00:51:53.820 --> 00:51:56.639
And what I did.

615
00:51:56.699 --> 00:51:59.340
This is the magic of everything, Stacy.

616
00:51:59.400 --> 00:52:02.400
I went back and re-recorded myself.

617
00:52:02.519 --> 00:52:13.320
Saying that line, the edit point happens during the word 1990, just to make it seamless.

618
00:52:13.320 --> 00:52:17.400
And so now if you download that episode, I say the right day, the right thing.

619
00:52:17.460 --> 00:52:20.219
So that's a thing that I can do.

620
00:52:20.340 --> 00:52:26.099
You could do James's voice as well, so I can just change all of his lines.

621
00:52:26.219 --> 00:52:33.539
You could have hated a story. where you just get your age wrong every episode and no one can pin you down.

622
00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:37.559
This is why I always wonder when I'm listening to episodes, why I'm not on them.

623
00:52:37.619 --> 00:52:38.219
Yeah