Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight to Entirety, the
only Doctor Who podcast that didn't expect Doctor Who to lift its
sexy Leonide Messimorph game so drastically after 1980.
I'm Nathan.
I'm Todd.
I'm Simon, and I'm an abandoned thyral nursing pink eye and a
grudge for this one.
Do you remember when you could recall names, birthdays, and the
words for things?
When you knew how many nieces and nephews you had and what their
names and genders were.
When you had any memory at all of anything that happened before
1997?
Well, neither do we, which is why we have so much in common with
the woman who lived.
I think that there are a lot of good ideas in this episode, and
the previous episode, which obviously go together, but I just
think that that potential is wasted by not doing anything
particularly interesting with it by leaning too heavily into the
silliness, uh, and inconsequential silliness.
And I think that whilst there are some nice moments, I'm thinking
the scene where me is explaining to the doctor, you know, what
being immortal is like, that still, she still has a human sized
brain, she can't possibly remember 800 odd years of incident.
And the whole journal thing is lovely.
But then everything else about it is so lightweight and trite.
I just can't care.
But I actually think that there's a deliberate attempt to be Lysa
in this 2 parter.
I'm sure it's deliberate.
And, and, you know, the 1st two-parter was very, you know, it was
very talky and there were obviously funny bits because it was
written by Stephen Moffat and Michelle Gomez was in it, but it had
a kind of weight to it and was all very overwrought.
You know, the doctor thinks Clara Missia dead.
You know, the doctor's gonna die, all of this sort of stuff.
And then you've got the 2 part, which is a sort of very standard
base under siege and hasn't that much comedy in it.
Whereas last week's, I think was just an out and out comedy.
And deliberately so because the point of Doctor Who is to be more
fun than his adversaries.
No, it's not.
It's to be clever.
No, he wins because he's cleverer than he's at.
He outwits that. more fun.
I'm not saying, yeah, wit, but not stupid.
Do you know what I mean?
And I think I think that, and I don't, I love, I love a good comic
moment.
I love a good comic character, but you know, you need the comic
relief and everything, but I think this, this is just where the
show starts.
And I don't mind like an episode from time to time, which is
that.
But I think that they're missing the opportunity with this
character and this story to do something which is a little bit a
little bit more thoughtful, a little bit more interesting and
that's why...
What way were you looking for character development here from...
It already character development per se.
It's more, both the, well, I suppose what they are, in fact, the B
plots of both episodes, you know, the invading Norse pseudo god in
the 1st episode and now the fact that, you know, there's this line
in the forest that she's trying to help and ends up double
crossing her, et Tetra, Tetra.
Those are very low...
They're very thin.
Yeah, yeah.
They're very, they're very thin, right?
So, so, I mean, there is so much more interesting stuff you could
do with the concept of this person who's who dies and then he's
brought back to life to then live forever and then what that
actually is like.
I agree.
With some actual interesting story behind.
And the whole, you know, what is he, Jack Swift, the quick
whatever it is.
I mean, that's all kind of painful, that character.
Sam Swift, I beg you.
Because I have to not call him Sam Smith. is the thing.
Oh, I see, right, okay, okay.
Yeah, Sam Swift.
And I'm not saying the doctor has to be deathly serious all the
time.
I am not saying that at all, but basically that the comic relief
moments need to be the aside, not the driving narrative, and I
worry that there's too much of that in these episodes to satisfy
me.
I think this one, though, while it does have comic beards and, you
know, the whole kind of opening where they reenact that scene from
Blackout of the third.
Oh, is that actually from?
Well, don't you think?
I can't remember.
Miranda, reaching out of the Ted for ages.
Miranda Richardson is the highwayman and she does the voice.
Oh, right, okay.
There's even a sort of.
I completely forgotten that.
I'm the chipmunks. squirrels.
But yeah, that's right.
But all of that's fun. like Capoli is really great in that scene
and there's that sort of stuff where it's like, oh, look, I meant
to listen.
You know, he's being.
Yes, and I promise I'm listening.
Yeah, I really try to listen, but I just ended up not listening.
And all of that stuff is really fun.
And I think the comedy breaking into the Fanshaw's house. when he
comes out, you know, and he's snoring on the couch and stuff.
Like all of that is kind of fun.
But I don't think that's the focus of the episode.
Isn't the focus of the episode just getting Capaldi and Williams
into scenes together so that they can act?
Yes, but that doesn't, for me, drive my interest.
That's an interesting diversion for watching them in a scene.
And the fact that you're kind of detailing multiple scenes there
which are all comic relief moments.
The fact that there are so many of them in a single 45 minute
episode, that's kind of why I'm kind of losing interest in what's
being shown.
Because, I mean, the central thing is, and this is what I think is
going on in this 2 parter and in this series, I think this series
is doing another thing that you don't like very much, which is
focussing on dissecting the character of the doctor.
And so, uh, episodes one and 2 have, you know, his relationship to
Davros, his relationship to the Daleks, his role in creating the
Daleks.
You know, it redoes Genesis of the Daleks.
The next 2 parter is about showing us Capaldi in a classic base
under siege, a classic sort of Doctor Who environment.
Here, we see 2 sides of the doctor's character.
One is, he's the comedy hero who takes this sort of slightly
crummy group of people and encourages them to be brave enough to
overcome a sort of terrible foe and to do it not with violence but
by being sort of fun and funny and clever.
Here, though, we get another take on the doctor, because the thing
about Maisie Williams character is that she's like the doctor.
And so this thing about the doctor that we got, even as early as
RTD, that the doctor has lived too long, that he keeps seeing
people that he loves, leave him or die.
And I guess it's more moffity, you know, that he's so old that he
doesn't remember some things.
Remember the original idea of the lodger where it was Meglos who
was behind it?
Oh, really?
The doctor was going to remember who...
That would be cute.
But it's that same thing. you know what I mean?
Everything that we learn about Maisie Williams character is really
telling us about the doctor.
And, you know, the doctor is good at everything, not just because
he's a time law, but because he's been around for a long time and
has had the chance to learn it.
We've seen this doctor struggle to care.
We even saw him last week consulting his 2000 year diary to work
out who the Maya were.
You know, like he is like her.
Oh yeah, no, I get the parallel.
I absolutely get what they're trying to say there.
Yeah, so that's what I'm saying.
There some great things in this.
But then it's like, I don't care.
Todd, you've been oddly son.
I haven't been in since the Dalek 2 part.
Yeah.
And I gave that 8.4.
Oh, right.
Yes, yes.
I wondered where it lost the point one.
I like the 1st episode more than I like the second.
Right.
And then we had the bass under siege, which I adore that story.
8.9, but I like the 1st episode a bit more than the second. right?
And I think that is the best in season 2 parter, not written by
Stephen Moffatt since Family of Blood.
Like that's how that's how much I really, really enjoy it.
And then coming into this two-parter.
I'm in the same boat where I think the 1st episode is better than
the 2nd and I think significantly better.
Um, I really have enjoyed that 1st part a lot more um, watching it
this time through.
I think the point of it is that there's a lot of just Dr. and
Clara scenes talking.
You get a lot about the doctor, but also about Clara.
And in this episode, there's just a lot of doctor and shielder
scenes and it's you're getting a lot about shielder and the
doctor.
And so they're quieter episodes.
Yeah.
And more comic, you know, which I agree with you with you on.
And certainly in that last episode, I really enjoyed Maisie so
much, like she certainly was cast well in terms of doing the same
character or similar character as to Game of Thrones, where she's
a square peg in a round hole.
And I think she did that really well in the last episode.
That's one of the things that I really enjoyed.
And of course, the other big thing was, of course, the doctor's
revelation of why he chose that face.
And so that 1st part has improved a lot for me.
The 7.5 to 8, just want to say, in case you'll keep being scored.
So coming into this.
And we were talking off off mic before.
At the end of last episode, you've got that incredible shot of
time passing with the character of a shielder.
And I guess the point is that she doesn't change and all of that
background changes.
But I struggle with the fact that she doesn't change.
Like her outfit doesn't change.
Her facial expression barely changes.
Oh, I think it changes quite a lot, do you?
I think there's a really, really good thing.
But the time it comes around.
Yeah, so the 2nd time it comes around, she's suffered grief and
then just at the very last moment while the camera's on her face
it hardens and something else.
Her face is hardens.
But I won't agree with you that I think it changes that much.
And her hairstyle, nothing changes.
We come into this, and I love the fact that she looks different
with her being the nightmare, and I think the 1st 20 minutes of
every scene in the dark is fabulous, like, you know, played for
comedy or whatever, and I love the breaking of the house, and I
love that stagecoach stuff. really, really enjoy that.
That's where I think, for me, the episode then begins to sort of
ebb away, the moment that she has to get changed into Lady me.
I don't think she is old enough to pull it off.
I mean, you've said the point is that she's supposed to look young
but I think they needed an actress who was older, who looked
younger in the 1st part, so that she could look a bit more older
and I just then find that she just, from that point on, I just
find that she just complains about having to take the low road, and
not to say that there's some great scenes in there, but I just
can't buy her in that makeup, and I just find the character so
grating that it's just complaint, complaint, complaint, and I know
about portals, and I know that it takes 10,000 hours to do this
and I suddenly all quite knowledgable.
But I have to write everything else down, so I just got selected
memory.
Now you're going to just completely disagree with me and take my
points apart.
So I struggle with the 2nd half of this episode quite a lot, and
I'm not to say that Maisie Williams is a bad actress or anything
like that, but I just don't buy a lot of the things, whether it be
the flashbacks to her doing all these learning all these skills.
Oh, and then you have like one of the worst sequences ever in the
show. which is like the horse riding sequence, which is as
convincing as Tom Baker jumping onto the horse in the mask of
Mandranga.
You know, there's a very...
Yeah, it's a sort of Terry Walsh level stunt double stuff.
Sorry, I do die.
He doesn't punch the horse in the...
I was about to say, the worst sequence in the history of the show
is a very high point.
A lot of competition there.
Sorry.
Maybe not the, you know, we're stuck double.
Okay.
One of the worst stunt doubles.
John's got Martin in a zombie suit.
Reads a sigh of relief.
Final vindication.
I guess I don't buy it. don't buy a lot of it.
That's my problem.
I haven't watched Game of Thrones because it's too rapey and
violent for me and I just can't bear that sort of thing.
So, and I'm not going to.
I'm sure that it's for other people to enjoy.
That's fine.
Yeah.
But, so I didn't sort of come away with any particular expectation
about how Maisie Williams was going to play it.
But the way it's played, I think, is interesting, because, remember
last week, she was young, she was really kind of like open-hearted
remember how she greets the returning Vikings and how happy she is
that they're all back and they're all safe and she's hugging them
all?
And she seems to have this relationship with everyone in the
village.
Like she, she later on goes on to tell us why she feels she
belongs in the village and stuff like that.
But we've seen it.
We've seen her doing that.
And she's, she's thoughtful and a bit odd.
And also there's something about her not conforming to gender
norms as well.
Remember that the girls thought she was a boy and the boys said
she was only a girl.
And so there's that.
She's an outsider and stuff and she loves the village.
And that scene, that moment, that exchange between the doctor and
her where the doctor says, anyone in that village would have died
for you.
And she says, well, they're all dead now.
So I guess everything worked out or whatever.
Like it's kind of horrible because we come fresh from seeing that
last week and she's forgotten it.
But when she's playing it now, she's playing it as someone who's
much more sophisticated, she's not a villager, she's a lady.
She has a posha accent, she is much more controlled.
She's much more feminine, like just much more obviously feminine.
None of the tomboy stuff, is there?
And there's a level of sophistication.
She's as smart as the doctor because she's been around.
She's been learning things.
It's Malcolm Gladwell's outliers that sets the, uh, 10,000 hours
figure for getting good at anything, which is clearly nonsense, I
guess.
Oh, is that actually is?
Yeah, reference to something else.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
But, you know, she's good at doing a man's voice.
She's good at sort of shooting people.
She's good at all sorts of things.
She's sort of terribly clever.
But it still comes in that sort of very, very odd, baby faced, you
know, soft cheeked, round faced look that she has.
And there's a level of detachment as well.
Do you know what I mean?
Like she's posh and so she's not showing any emotions, but the one
exception is when she finally turns on the doctor and says, why
won't you take me with you?
What are you doing?
You know, and she gets really properly angry with him.
I think that's the turning point.
Yeah.
And so I like I buy her performance.
And I think that the amount of stuff in this episode, like that
that's actually probably a good thing.
Both of these episodes read like short stories rather than Doctor
Who adventures.
They're not doing what a Doctor Who adventure does.
So not very much happens in this.
You know, the doctor arrives, meets her.
They talk overnight, then at lunchtime the next day.
They go for the hanging and, you know, the whole thing gets
resolved.
And so I kind of like that.
I like the small scale of that, which gives us enough time to just
talk.
Look, I guess I just can't get over the fact that she's got that
horrible bun on her head.
Like Clara had back in the Crimson Horror, and I hated that look
at the time as well.
So it just puts me behind the 8 ball, but you're saying like
everything's in this episode.
Like for me, I kind of feel like I needed to see some sort of
progression between the last episode and this episode in the
background of other episodes.
I know the progressions there.
Oh, you wanted like a gap between the two?
But having her in the background to pick up pieces of things, like
but then we'd have to have so many adventures set in the past.
That still just wouldn't work.
But I just feel like I don't see that progression to that and I
just don't buy it and I don't feel it.
I get it gets talked about.
And yes, it's in my books and all this, but I just don't feel it.
Because I think I think that this is pulling the same trick that
the arc pulls between episodes 2 and three.
So it keeps us in the same place and then we see the consequence
of 100s of years or something.
The consequences of the doctor's actions.
And the consequence of the doctor's actions as well.
Dodo's actions, really.
It's all about the dodoes. about the girl who sneezed.
I got to agree with you on the casting.
Now, I am not a Game of Thrones viewer.
I got into 3 episodes and found it all a little jejune.
Can I say apart from the hitty wacky rapey stuff, which I wasn't
even along for?
anyway, but I'd enjoyed the books.
Honestly, what I was getting from this was a whole lot of Wildy
and Dorian Gray notes in that and why how we see ageing and I was
taken back to Capaldi's introduction and how we see age and what
is age and the judgement of appearances and I bought it.
I don't know Maisie Williams work, but I think she absolutely
holds the scenes, and I kind of like the tension between someone
who, as Todd said, is just so damn rosy cheeked, but then I have
never been a teacher, so I don't find that quality offensive
however I can see why it would be.
She really does sort of maintain that tension of discomfiture and
look, it could possibly be, I don't know how, you know, how strong
her performances are in other things.
I do agree with Simon that the narrative for what it's aiming to
achieve falls short on many beats.
I would have liked a little more debt and a little more flesh in
those scenes.
I think Capaldi's working, as he always does, to his absolute
steaming best.
And I think she actually does very well with the passive, grumpy
face that she does.
It's nowhere near as effective as Jenna Coleman's icy stairs.
I cut out an expletive there, but so you don't have to.
But yeah, look, I don't know.
It all comes down to the quality and temperature of the actor's
own abilities in those scenes, and don't forget they do shoot
these quickly.
It's not like a theatre piece.
And I kind of think this would have been one of those ones like
wild.
Did anyone here, I don't know if the listeners would have had a
chance to see the one woman show that STC put on of Dorian Gray
and how good that was.
I believe it's heading or headed to Broadway or the West End.
Not at all surprised, because they're the dissonance that of
gender and age and all the rest of that. get real hints of that
here.
To me, and I agree with both Todd and Simon that I feel it falls
short, but that's probably only because it needed more time to
explore the actual size of the concepts and scenes that it's
dealing with. didn't quite get there.
I'm just sick of the stylistic choices they keep making with the
comedy music.
Too many scenes being played for comedy, the comedy Welsh guards.
How many times do we have comedy watch guys?
I mean isn't it kind of almost offensive that the Welsh acts?
Only one of them.
Oh, I thought they both had Welshakes.
There was one Welsh actually very strong.
The other one was that sort of, you know, tries to be played for
lives.
All the robbery scenes are all kind of stupid and the fact that
the woman in that opening sequence in the carriage is quite
clearly got the hots for the nightmare and wants to be ravished by
from the source material.
Yes, exactly.
And so that loses me.
As soon as it keeps going back to those kind of style, stylistic
choices, I then really start to lose interest and I'm really
struggling.
Not saying that there are some great moments.
I think the sequence in the study, you know, all those
conversations about immortality and so on, 10,000 hours and all
that sort of stuff.
I actually think that's the strongest part of the episode because
it's actually played straight.
And actually later where she's saying, why won't you take me with
you?
And so on.
I think that's also the strong part, but it's all this other stuff
which just really is driving me to drink.
But more so.
Also, just with Maisie Williams, you guys aren't Game of Thrones
watches.
Todd, you've seen it all through, haven't you?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I like her in that.
I'm not actually convinced she's that good an actress.
And I actually don't think she's that good in this.
She's fine, but there is a limit to what she can do.
Do you think that she's she's good at one thing and she delivers
that?
In Game of Thrones, basically.
Look, maybe.
I think it's just...
I don't know whether it's particularly her.
I don't know whether it's the fact that she's trying to deal with
this the incredible complexities of this character in 45 minutes.
Because, of course, in the 1st episode, she's playing a generic
character.
She's playing a Viking from whatever the year it is, whereas in
the 2nd episode, that's where she's having to play something which
is completely outside the norm.
And I think that's where we have a problem.
I mean, I think that there is a kind of real world analogue for
this, which is just ageing, isn't it?
It's no coincidence that Moffatt has cast Capoldi as his 2nd
doctor.
So, sort of grumpy, grumpy old Scotsman, who of a certain age.
And so he's aware of that age and the kind of the way that you're
less likely to care.
I don't know whether I'm a terrible person, but people keep, you
know, coming up to me at school with problems.
I say, whatever, I don't care.
You know.
And I care much less, I think, about certain things than I used
to.
And I can't remember people's names or anything.
So I think that there is a real thing there.
Do you know what I mean?
So it's something that you can identify with.
It's not the end of journeys end where Billy's left on a beach
with a...
Yeah, with a replica of the doctor and I have literally no idea of
how to feel about that.
Is that a good thing or a bad thing or is that actually a little?
I know a bit icky.
Who knows?
Who can say?
Whereas this is clearly identifiably a thing that actually does
happen.
Dr. Snuff Puppet.
But we've actually, you know, we've seen the doctor behaving like
this.
We've seen her behaving like this.
I think all of that's really good And I think too, that she comes
back twice more this season, doesn't she?
And certainly, I remember her in Face the Raven and she's
different again, isn't she?
I think she's great.
You're right, okay.
So it's this middle one that you don't like. that I have a problem
with.
And I just think it's seeing that progression to this point.
And I just struggle with it, you know?
Not, and again, not to say there aren't great scenes because there
are, like, I actually love all the comedy stuff, especially with
sans, quick, and the doctor, like, it's against puns and grandpa
and all that sort of stuff, and Capaldi is just, he's comedy
gold.
He's really good, isn't he?
And they're giving him more and more comedy stuff to do.
Because those 2 comedy scenes too, at the middle, the one where we
are going into the Fanshaw's place to steal the thing back and
then the one where we confronted by Sam Swift, the real serious
business is that she wants to kill someone in order to get out of
the situation and she thinks that's okay because everyone kind of
lives for such a short time anyway.
So why?
And she seems so many people die.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And it's that thing.
The doctor has that great line about I didn't know that your heart
would rust because it had been beating so long.
Like there's some beautiful dialogue in there, like some...
That's what I'm saying.
There is great stuff.
That, the, uh, you didn't save my life.
You trapped me inside it and I think it's very good.
Like, I think all of that stuff's great.
And so there's that great comedy moment at the end of that scene
where, you know, Sam Swift has said, oh, you've brought your dad
along as your sidekick and the doctor's saying, you know, come on
tell him.
I'm not your dad, and she calls him dad, obviously, just irritate
him.
But then at the end, you know, um, he says it's wrong to kill.
And her reply is, you're not my dad.
You know, like it's, it's, it's well done.
There's something going on during those comedy scene.
So they're not just nothing, I think.
I absolutely give you that.
I really like the comedy scenes in this, and I really love Rufus
Hound, and I didn't recognise his florid scrofularity in this one
because he's such a jinge.
You know him for...
Which one's he, sorry?
So he's Sam, not Smith.
Sam Smith.
Yeah.
So he's in he's in a lot of things.
He's, he's, well, he's the meddling monk in the latest audios.
How funny?
Against Tom and a few others, and that was one of my picks of the
week because he's great.
And he's a big ginge with a Mo.
I think his real name's Robert Simpson or something.
But anyway, he just plays that character every damn time he's on
the radio.
I think there's something very nice.
Like, at that dad joke scene at the end, where he's doing these
jokes, and then at the very end, later when they're in the swan
with 2 necks, the pub at the very end, and the doctor says to me
take a look at him, you know, even when he was about to die, he
was making every moment before then count.
And you see him, you know, and he's laughing and he's patting the
hangman on the back, like they're, they're laughing with one
another together.
And like I thought that that illustrated very well a point.
You know the scene in Father's Day where it's the young married
couple and she's pregnant and the doctor says, oh, you know, like
I've never snogged someone up against the wall in an alley outside
a nightclub or some terrible thing and it's just like, oh, come on
you know we're trying to make the point that even trashy people
have worthwhile lives or something.
I thought you were going to say in an apse of a derelict church
but what goes on between Delgado and Berkeley is their business.
But here, I thought that made that point really tremendously
well.
Yeah, it did.
And those jokes.
Like, I did laugh out loud just at Capaldi's delivery where Swift
sees him and says, doctor, doctor, I'm a thief or something, and
then it takes him a while to work it out and then he delivers to
have you taken anything for it, which I was thinking.
So bad and so adorable and just sort of so well sold, Michael
Paldi.
I think that seems the weakest.
I think the big climax is probably the weakest scene in the
episode, but I think there's still plenty to like about it.
Could this be postmodern analysis of the quality of fame itself in
the UK?
Well, you know, the highwaymen were the pop stars and celebrities
of their day and life is so evanescent, is it not?
And then, of course, I know that's a thorough.
I don't care what anybody says.
No, he is sex.
I think we're all on the same page.
Yeah, yeah, no, he is sexy.
So he played Lord Boreal in his dark materials.
So, yeah, he was Ruth Wilson's evil sidekick and he was super
terrifying in that.
Um, and I, you know, like he's, It's that thing where her
sophistication is kind of played as a class thing.
You know, she's lady meat.
She wears dresses, she has horrific hairstyle.
You know, she has a valets and all of that sort of thing.
And so this guy is dressed as a king and he's very mythological
like he's from a planet around the star Delta Leonis, which is a
real star, as you would know.
And, and, you know, he breathes fire and he's got, like all of
that sort of stuff makes him a sort of mythological character.
There's something a little bit astrological about his backstory
which, again, is sort of correct for the period, I guess.
What's his name, Leon?
Leandro.
Which I just...
And he is the rock star, but again, the nod to the cursory nature
of fame.
He's basically ballless.
He's completely ineffectual.
Well, he's all just puff and appearance.
And in the end, you know, just takes, doesn't take much to defeat
him, does it?
No, I...
It's very Astro boy ending, actually.
There's a lot of ADR in that scene, like a lot of ADR.
Things like, you mean the fact that purple is the colour of death
which is like, why, it's like, that's almost like we needed to put
that, that, that for me smacked of, we need something to explain
what the hell's going on.
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, and and his disappearance like Leandro's disappearance at the
end is really just sort of cursory and stuff.
And I just wonder whether something went horribly wrong on the
issue.
Oh, they didn't cover it properly.
Yeah, yeah.
Yes, yes, possibly.
Because I think that these 2 episodes are quite well directed, and
Moffatt does his usual thing where he gets a director that he's
impressed by, like Met Steen or Nick Curran or something back that
year to do the Christmas special.
And so he does that.
So this guy does return of Dr. Mysterio.
So that's the following year, isn't it?
But he gets to do a Christmas special.
But I do think that there's pretty clear onscreen evidence that
something's gone horribly wrong in that last scene.
No, you are right because I remember watching it going, oh, that's
an open up.
That's an overnight.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Why there's so many pieces of dialogue you could tell that have
been added in.
Yeah.
So, yeah. recorded under the flight path or something.
But they're not even saying it like it's...
Oh, yes.
Oh, you mean they're not their lips don't match.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's like they're saying it like back to camera or whatever.
It may be. maybe there's a missing shot a short or 2 or maybe it's
just the fact that once they put it all together, they thought
this doesn't make any sense.
Yeah, it's sort of simple, isn't it?
Like, it's an idea that the death opens a portal.
So bringing him back to live clothes, is it?
Like, it's not something that required a stack of exposition or
anything like that.
But they didn't have enough confidence in it.
Maybe they didn't have enough confidence in it.
Or maybe they were worried that there was just far too long
without a line of dialogue. you know, who knows?
It's a weird thing.
I know why you like this.
Why?
Because it mentions the great fire and the terror...
Right.
So great, isn't it?
I love how they're doing that stuff.
We don't care.
Yeah.
I think it's kind of nice to have a bit of a break from Clara
too.
Like somebody else for Peter to play off and that's also going to
obviously come up in the next 2 partner where he has Ingrid Oliver
to play off.
Yeah. and and even in the, under the lake. before the flood, like
he's playing off other characters in that 2nd 2 parter as well.
So it is interesting to see this doctor with other people other
than Clara because she's back with the same old, same old.
But, I mean, I do like, you know, the ending is moving things
forward, like having a shielder in the background and I love that
shot of her, her facial expression, you know, um, with the selfie
and it's like, I'm not going anywhere, bitch.
Yeah, I have to be very careful saying this as a graphic designer
but why is the retouching always so rubbish?
Yeah, it's really bad.
It's like given the fact that they would deliberately set that
up.
I mean, that they need to create that visual.
You'd think that they'd be able to make sure they photograph her
with the right kind of lighting and so on and not make it look
like, you know, someone had done it on their phone.
Well, I also think that what's kind of weird is that I don't think
that making the phone, like I don't think that...
Yeah, the zooming in, the pinch to zoom thing doesn't really seem
to do what it's supposed to do.
I wasn't convinced by that, as if it was like a video that he was
just moving his hand.
Oh, right.
Like, it just didn't.
He was going to do it anyway.
But I do like that scene quite a lot.
Yeah, I like it.
Yeah, and I agree.
It's nice to not have Clara there.
And it also sells the idea that it is like a short story.
You know, it's just like, oh, Clara's not here.
She off doing taekwondo.
I actually like the excuse.
She's teaching the year 7 taekwondo, which is kind of awesome.
And, you know, in this period you can do that.
It's kind of a shame that we didn't do it more, given that she
sort of, uh, but that scene, like, what does she say?
She comes in and says, did you miss me?
And he says be more specific, who are you again?
which I just think is, again, absolutely terrific, and the sort of
gag that he's been doing anyway.
You know, the, I'm not listening to you.
All that I'm not listening to you stuff just gets picked up in
me's character, doesn't it?
Like, she's like that.
All of that, he's just not particularly interested in anyone else
is that running gag, and we end with that after having examined
that feature of his character.
But, you know, she hugs him and stuff.
And the final shot isn't the final shot. him looking at her?
Yes, she says I'm not going anywhere.
She says, I'm not going anywhere.
And he just gives this.
Yes.
He goes, no, you are.
He knows that she is because that's what that's all been about.
Like, me says how many Claras have there been?
And the whole bringing me back to life as well when he described
it last week.
He said, you know, I look at your face and the way you smile and
the things that you say, and I know that there'll be a time where
it hurts so much to remember those things that I can barely
breathe.
You know, he does that to a shilder because he's terrified of
losing Clara.
And then he's reminded about how short Clara's life is compared to
his.
And so that final scene is him, you know, and it's Capoli, he's
such an incredible actor.
You can see that he's going, Yes, you are going somewhere and I
know that's happening.
You know, it's the foreshadowing and we know that there's only so
much time left.
Yeah, with Clara.
I mean she's been on the show for such a long time.
You know, her time is coming to an end and he knows that whatever
way it's going to go and he's suspecting it's not going to be
great because of her actions that are sort of appearing more and
more out of control.
What do you think of the name me, her choosing me?
Like, do you think it's very naturesque, isn't it?
Yeah.
Not that you could come up with a different name and yes, after so
long, you know, I don't want to call myself a shielder or whatever
like fair enough after 100s of years, but she could have been kind
of like, you know, O'Connor to Orcom sort of thing.
It could have been, Ishield, it could have been. you know
Camilla.
Yes, exactly.
Her name gradually changes.
You know, it's one of those things where it's suddenly on me.
But isn't that, like, your name is what a group of people call
you.
Yes.
Like some people that I know call me sir, some people that I know
call me Nathan.
That's it, really.
Yes, I think.
Mr. Bottomley sometimes.
Yeah, that happens.
But there what a group of people call you and and you know that
thing, like, there are some people that you never call by name
like, I have friends who I'm conscious that I never actually
address them by their name, and it's that sort of weird thing
because there's a sort of closeness and you're together and all of
that.
Like it doesn't sort of come up.
So the fact that there's no one that she doesn't have anyone, any
anyone at all.
Uh, she doesn't have a name because there's no one for her
anything.
So calling her me because she's her only person.
So what do I call myself?
Me, an name I call myself.
And so that's why she's called me.
It's like when you ring someone, you go, hi, it's me.
Well, you do.
It's how you go, hi, it's me.
Well, isn't that that's the gang as well?
Yeah, Sam Smith, Sam Smith, yeah.
Where Sam Swift says, oh, you know, um, a last kiss for anyone and
they all go, me, me.
And he goes, ah, so it must be you.
Like, yes.
So, so...
She keeps her lips pursed.
Oh, she does.
It's a very chaste kiss.
I reckon I'm imagining them getting it on later though.
Do you know what I mean?
I think she probably likes it.
You know he has a job. tattoo.
Rufus Hound has a daleic tattoo.
And if you've watched the Blu-ray, he does the Rufus Cam, because
he was such a fan, he was doing his little vox into his phone and
the BBC put some of them onto the Blu-ray set.
And they're also you can hashtag Rufus Cam. can watch them all.
Oh, wonderful.
I think he's adorable.
Have you heard the missy things?
Maybe that'll be a pick of the week because he's up against, he
does the missy audios.
Oh, of course, because he's your time now.
And they're really funny together.
Although it's a bit manic because you're kind of both pitching it
the same way.
I can imagine.
Sounds great.
I found this discussion.
Very interesting.
Nathan and Richard and Simon.
Can I say I found it unsurprising?
No, I found it interesting to hear both sides of the coin.
Imagine, though, an episode which was pitched in the same way that
the upcoming heaven sent was pitched, a little bit more mature, a
bit darker, a bit more serious.
I'm not asking for, and that's what I'm sort of talking about when
I'm wanting more because the comedy stuff is just fluff, it's
disposable.
It's entertaining, but it's it's gone, right?
Whereas something like that episode stays with you. you think
about it.
You know.
There's so much in this concept of me of a shield of becoming me
that is so much interesting about that that is barely touched.
And I think it is still in the remit of the show.
It's not too big a deal.
Pete too big an idea.
I mean, I know it's a family show, but I think heaven sent
demonstrates the kind of thing you can do with those concepts
which ends up with a much more fulfilling and interesting
outcome.
I absolutely don't want heaven sent every week though.
I don't think it should be every week, no.
And I think that one thing the Doctor Who...
But I want it more than once a season.
Yeah, maybe, maybe.
Yeah, yeah.
That's my problem.
At the moment, those episodes are only once a season when I'm
lucky.
And I want those episodes to be much more frequent.
So I was thinking about how RTD does these big moment things.
You know, something like turn left or midnight, both of which are
funny all the way through.
Like they have funny lines.
They have interesting character things.
It's called also devastating.
Exactly.
Um, and maybe this, because Moffatt's era is more sitcommy
comedy.
It's, yeah.
Well, Moffat's got more of the clever one liners.
I suppose the retorts, those kind of, no one would actually
realistically ever say that you'd have to be, you need a script
writer in order to say those lies.
But that's okay because it's part of the conceit.
It's TV that works.
But yes, but I still think you can do an episode like this with
some comic relief in it, but just much more dark.
I want I want to ramp up the darkness a bit.
Maybe the thing is like last week wasn't very dark, right?
And so, because it was, I'll say lighter.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
After the 1st 4 episodes, which I found quite sort of full on.
Full on, yeah.
Go, go, go, yeah, yeah.
So it was lighter.
Maybe this week. could have worked and made more impact for you
and maybe for me in terms of satisfaction if it had taken that
more darker tone and and I would have looked at the gravitas of it
more.
And but it's not to say that I don't like it.
I understand, like, I look at this 2 part and I just think that I
find them much more low key episodes, and I mean low key in
compared to what the next 2 episodes and the previous 2 episodes.
But they're both better than I thought.
Like even this, I'm still saying it's at least a 7 for me, whereas
last season you had in the Forest of the Night, and that's never
going to get to that point.
Not even close.
So...
And I think these 2 get a bump, both these episodes get a get a
bad rap, and I think it's not fair that they both get it.
I think, as I said last week, is actually pretty good, and this
week is much better than what I think people believe it to be.
Yeah.
I mean I think it's interesting.
I think that humour is absolutely central to who the doctor is as
a character.
And given that both of these stories, I think, are an examination
of the doctor's character.
I think, you know, coming to the conclusion in each case that
humour is the right solution works, given that context.
The attitude to life that Sam Swift has is the correct one, not
the attitude that lady me has or that the doctor has.
And I kind of like that.
I think that's part of Bob Holmes' legacy, isn't it?
You know, the doctor is funnier and more fun and the hide bound
although they're pretty funny as well, but the hide bound kind of
enemies that he faces, I think.
That's very magnanimous of you, Magnus.
All right, it's part 2 of a two-part story, and so it's time for
picks of the week.
Todd.
Well, my pick of the week is going to be an episode of Torchwood
also written by Catherine Tregenna, who wrote this episode, and
it's going to be the episode Captain Jack Hartness.
I think it's a beautiful episode and I think it really shows what
she can do with dialogue and a bit more gravitas to a situation.
She rides meat as well.
Is that the one that Owen gets killed at the end of?
Oh, with the whale that the giant whale that they're carving bits
off and eating.
I can't remember. can't remember.
I just have sort of strong memories of watching that in the UK.
And since Brendan's not here, I thought I'd mention that.
Do you want me to look it up?
No, no.
But she writes meat as well, and I think that's a really great
episode.
And I just think if this episode isn't quite doing it for you in
terms of that gravitas, go and have a look at those 2 and see what
she can do, right?
She does Adam as well.
And Adam is like, you know, Star Trek, the Next Generation
conundrum, where a character that, and I think there's an X-Files
episode, a late X-Files episode that does this as well.
It's a sort of genre staple where there's a new character on the
show and everyone in the show behaves like they've always been
that great?
Yes, yes, yes.
I'm surprised, Doctor, he hasn't actually properly done that
yeah.
Yeah, but Torch would manage it.
Yeah, with Adam.
So yeah, check out her torchwood episodes, but that's probably
Captain Jack Hartness is the one that immediately springs to
mind.
But those other 2 are very good as well.
Simon.
I just want to read as a sort of a sort of an extra pick.
I just want to reiterate what Richard mentioned earlier about the
Sydney Theatre Company version of a picture of Dorian Gray, which
is done as a one-woman show, which is now touring.
I't know with the same actress, but if it does come to a region
near you, definitely go and see it.
You won't regret it.
My actual pick, though, is something I haven't seen.
It's a film called The Beast, which was in competition at the
Venice Film Festival, and unfortunately overnight, as we're
recording this, failed to win the award.
I was hoping I was going to be able to announce that, but alas
not.
It's in French and English, and the actress Leah Stou, who people
may know as Madeline Swan in some of the Daniel Craig James Bond
films.
So the premise of the film is in the near future, the not too
distant future.
Emotions have become a threat, and our lead character decides to
purify her DNA in a machine that will immerse her in her past
lives and rid her of her strong feelings.
And then she meets a character.
So it's a film it's set in 3 time zones, the not too distant
future, the not too distant pass, and then the Belapocch era of
Paris.
And then she obviously meets the same people in each, you know
it's like that thing in her life is split. a bit count Scarlione.
You know, she splits across the things.
Anyway, it sounds absolutely fascinating and definitely will be on
my list of films to watch.
So that's The Beast.
So I assume it'll be out.
I don't think there's a release date yet, but I imagine they'll be
out around Christmas, one assumes.
I only had Rufus Hound and Big Finish because I'd like to plug
them because I just hope people listen to them.
So the missy adventures are definitely worth listening to.
And he's our new time meddler.
He is, he is the monk, um, Ford, with David Bradley, with Tim
Trelora's Purwee. and Katie.
He and Katie are great together.
They really are.
He just plays this.
I mean, he plays the same part every everything he does.
He's in cucumber.
Do you remember?
No.
Yeah.
He's in Robert, does he play?
I can't remember it so long ago.
Yeah, I haven't seen it for ages as well.
So I like, oh, yes.
Yes.
Always river sound.
So at the end of episode two.
My pick of the week was Strange New Worlds series two.
And then at the end of episode four, Fraser's pick of the week was
also strange new ones.
And so this time would be a bit excessive to do it again.
Yes.
I'm going to be Star Trek Lower Decks, which at the time of
recording has just released its 1st 2 episodes, including one
called Two Vics.
That's TWOVIX.
Right.
It's just terrifically fun, and if you sat through 100s and 100s
and 100s of hours of 90s Star Trek, which we all did because...
What else was it?
It's so much fun to have people who know and love it as much as we
do and who know, like us, how incredibly ridiculous it all is. you
know, to revisit all of that with us.
So I really like that.
And of course, discussed a few episodes on untitled Star Trek
project, which is available at all good podcast vendors.
I've learned that bananas have bones.
Well, they listen, that's all the time that happens.
We will be back next week to meet the Zygons who live among us in
the Zygon invasion.
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts
and you can keep up with us on our website, FlightthroughEntirety
com, where you'll find all our social media links, as well as
links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody interterra, maximum
power, and untitled Star Trek project.
Until next time, remember to make every last moment count.
Thank you very much for listening and good night.
Good night.
See you soon.
Good thenings.
That was Flight 3 Entirety, starring Todd Bealby, Nathan Bottomley
Simon Moore, and Richard Stone.
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.
This episode, John Scott Martin in a zombie suit, was recorded on
the 10th of September 2023, and released on the 22nd of October.
As is now well known, the woman who lived is the first part of a
trilogy, alongside The Woman Who Fell to Earth, and next year's
Shooty Gatwa episode, The woman who was just not as well dressed
as The Doctor, starring Gemma Redgrave, as Kate Stewart.
I've learned that bananas have bones.
Far out that second episode.
I've got to watch.
I have not yet watched one.
I forgot to watch that.
No, no, no, I really want to.
But I kind of need a block of time to be able to, you know...
Have you seen the 1st two?
No, I haven't yet.
Is it a send-up of 2 days?
Yes, it's a sequel.
Yes.
And it's for real.
Oh, is that weird?
Tuvok, Tuvok, and Neelix become the same person or something?
Yeah, same person. and you wish they had stayed that person.
And then, and then, and then, who are the 2 in these?
No, you can't tell him.
Oh, but we don't have to tell...
Off Mike.
Billip's and Tahana.
Right.
To start with.
But my favourite scene is in the gym right at the beginning.
Oh, the scene of the gym.
Oh my God. where they reenact.
So Shacks, who's the big Burleys Bajoran security officer.
Have watched any of it?
Brendan's Crush. of low decks.
No, not a single...
So Shax is a big mature and security officer.
I think he's hot.
He calls, he calls baby bear.
He calls her.
Yeah.
And and then Jerry O'Connell's massively ripped and buffed Captain
Commander Ransom, who's the 2 I see.
They're in the gym in the same leotards as Deanna and Beverly in
that scene from the price.
And they're doing the same stretching.
Like, but it's like a proper scene that functions as a scene in
the episode.
It would have worked if you didn't know that.
I have to show.
Nut fudge sundaes.
Love it, love it, love it cheek day.
Have you done the out.
No, he hasn't done that.
No, I just...
I'm going to watch it again.
No, it's brilliant.
Let me show you. all right.
Oh my goodness.
Okay, great.
Including cartoon bulger.
So good.
So great. funny.
Are they both so cute?
Yes.
Jerry O'Connell.
Jerry O'Connell, Jerry O'Donnell.
Jerry O'Connell.
He was the lead in sliders.
Right.
And he's married to the woman who plays Una Chin Riley. in Star
Trek Strangely Worlds.
Oh, right.
Okay, sure.
So he's the number one.
He's the voice another one, yeah. on Cerritos, and she's number
one. on the on the Enterprise.
Right.
And in fact, in the episode that the crossover episode, he does
get to say of Una that she's the hottest commander in Starfleet
which is sort of adorable.
All right, I need to do the closing track because I forgot.
Well, dear listener, that's all the time we have for this week.