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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:47:55

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flights of Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast still wearing question mark underpants.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd, and I'm a unit lorry reversing into a fishmongers window full of squin entrails and horrors for this one.

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And I'm Brendan.

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Well, it was Malcolm Hulk who once said that Earthbound Doctor Who could only do 2 stories, Alien Invasion, or Mad Scientist.

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But now more than 40 years later, the show discovers it can do yet another new thing.

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Let's see how that turns out in the Zygon invasion.

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So, in a way, I'm kind of sad that Simon's not here, and Peter isn't here either, because they really don't like the new series icons at all.

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Yeah, because I think that they think that Zygon should be played by John Woodnut.

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Which is not a crazy opinion to have, and now we've got Nicholas Briggs doing this.

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I love the fact that Zygons in the original series are played by the people who they actually transform into.

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Yes, yeah.

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So Sister Lament is the other one who is fabulous too.

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She sadly passed away.

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Only a couple of weeks ago.

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Wow.

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Yeah.

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I'm actually a little bit with Simon and Peter in that I don't like the teeth.

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Yes.

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Because, you know...

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Zigons.

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Zigons, they're sort of meant to be squiddy and amorphous and everything like that and with the originals.

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I can't readily say for sure, yeah, they definitely had their teeth obscure, but it felt to me like they did.

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And adding the teeth kind of makes the horror of the appearance, a bit obvious, in my opinion.

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And the other thing which told you sort of touched on there, like the actors being inside the suits.

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By this point, big finish have done women voicing zigons.

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And here, the zigons in human female form are male zigons when they transform.

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And I just kind of think, no, like give us...

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Give us Jenna Coleman in a Zigon outfit, for God's sake.

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Yes, thank you Yes.

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The other thing I like about the original cycons is that they're a little bit translucent, like the rubber is a bit translucent, and given how sort of foetal they are, that smooth rubber where I think, yeah, we're in hydro. and vulnerable.

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Yes.

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But we're in high def now and so they feel that they have to make the costumes more detailed and a bit more interesting.

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But I do think that we lose something there.

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Not necessarily to the detriment of these episodes.

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No, and in fact, what I think is really great about this isn't just that it's Doctor Who attempting to do something which is about politics and the real world and stuff, which is always good, is usually good.

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But...

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But it's finding new things to do with the Zygons.

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And do you remember when we did Chibnall's Silurian 2 parter at the end of series 5?

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And we're not brave enough in that, even though it's said in the future to say, oh, yeah, actually, why not?

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Let's share the planet with the Silurians, and instead we say, oh, we'd better wait another 1000 years until all the racists die out or whatever.

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Here, we've just kind of gone, Actually, from now on, there are 20000000 cycons on Earth and that's just how Doctor Who is going to be.

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And I think that's absolutely incredible.

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Such a great thing.

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I wonder how the Daleks feel about that when they invade.

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Yeah, no, I think it's a great thing.

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I mean, you may all recall that at the end of last series when we do the retrospective, I did question what I was going to think of this 2 parter because I was really quite undecided about it, knowing what I how much I'd liked under the lake before the flood.

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And, you know, I was really, really surprised at this, well, I think both episodes are really strong.

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And, oh, you might be surprised to find out, listeners, and Nathan and other OG FTEs, that I like this episode slightly more than the 2nd one, despite the fact there's fantastic Capaldi.

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Oh, good stuff in that 2nd episode.

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I really, really thoroughly enjoyed the whole setup of this.

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And, you know, 3 Doctors, 2 Osgood's one piece treaty, Truth or Consequences, the Osgood Box, and Ingrid Oliver is back.

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Yeah, that setup is done very well, I think.

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Because a big thing has happened that we haven't seen.

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And the normal way of doing that on television would be to have 2 characters who knew all about it explaining it to one another, as you know, Bob.

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But instead, we have that to camera thing with the 2 Osgoods, which I think is really terrifically grade.

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And I think also very economically it sells her grief at the loss of the other Osgood in Death in Heaven.

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So I just think that's done incredibly well.

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Yeah.

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It also evokes for me a little bit of the Scottish falsetto sock puppet theatre.

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Hello, we are the Scottish Falsetto Sock Puppet Theatre, and so am I. And so is he.

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But yeah, it's always great to have Ingrid Oliver back.

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And I also really like that in death in heaven, she was a bit less whimsical than she was in Day of the Doctor, you know, and there's that wonderful moment where the doctor's like, oh, might take you on some trips.

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And it was like, well, okay, she's dead.

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But here in this one again, it'll be more developed next week.

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I think it helps make her a more rounded and believable character.

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If we still have that comedic element that she had in Day of the Doctor, which was fantastic and perfect for the tone there.

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I think she wouldn't work as well here as she does.

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And there's that great bit where they're talking on the plane at the end and she very matter of factly states, no, no, you can't tell that I'm easily human because X, Y, and Z, and actually that was my sister and we both believed in it so much that we have given up our identity to it, the peace between humanity and the Zygons.

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And I think it's such a wonderful new hook for the character.

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And probably, because I'll be the 1st to jump in, I guess, the most overt nod to trans, um, I don't want to say the term acceptance, um, absorption of our culture, just trans acceptance, just trans acknowledgement is the word I'm looking for in this, and it's such a lovely, blatant metaphor, just as SF has always done with concepts that society appears to be struggling with.

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God knows why.

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And yet, really, really gets it right.

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And it also brings it to the here and now, in a way that Doctor Who maybe didn't used to do, and I think has been doing this season.

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Like it's hard to know exactly what's happening here.

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I think that what it wants to do is a big kind of thriller episode that's a massive event in the way that the 1st alien invasion of Earth in 2005 was a huge event, certain terrible people scoff at aliens of London, World War III.

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But remember, it was like nothing we'd ever seen before and you just never knew where it was going to go.

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It was so huge.

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You know, you had the worldwide media, all of that sort of thing.

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Here we have a sort of similar setup.

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We have a kind of Doctor Who story that we've never ever seen before.

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We've never had 20000000 aliens on earth.

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You just made me think it's a 90s virgin.

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It is.

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I to think which one it is.

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Is it a bit blood tidy?

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Well, I don't know, but it has that sort of feel to it. doesn't it?

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Like, it's such a huge concept.

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And the show has gone on and never referred to it again, I think, is that right?

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We've just never, ever mentioned it.

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But it's a huge thing.

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Something massive has happened.

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It reminds me as well, a bit of children of earth, you know, this big worldwide event, this big giant alien event.

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And then, in order to sell it, we're doing new things with the aliens and those things are the sort of things that we're seeing on television at the time.

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And so you have what is kind of a parable about immigration, but, you know, just done in a different way and using some different tropes, you know, because I think particularly it's about Muslims, isn't it?

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It's like about Muslims in Britain.

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And so you have, you know, young people being radicalised, you have a lot of people who just want to get on with their lives and you have a sort of potentially horrific response from the powers that be.

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And I don't think it's exactly trying to, well, maybe it is trying to say something about that.

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But it's certainly using that scale on the sort of news stories that we're seeing to tell a story that's sort of vaster and more interesting than just a normal alien invasion story.

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Yeah, I think it is using those ideas as a starting and weaving a science fiction story around them.

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I don't think it's necessarily saying this is a one for one retelling of what is happening in our world, but we're using zygons instead.

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And I think that is a mistake that some people make when they're reading this, that this is meant to be a one-to-one representation of our world.

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It's like, no, it's not.

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It's meant to take an idea that's already happening and see how it would apply on what would happen with an alien culture from another world, who have this ability to shapeshift.

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It's interesting that this is by the same writer as Kill the Moon, who tells us that his story was about one thing, but multiple readings insist, no, no, it's actually about this other thing that you shouldn't be writing about, and it's kind of, it's kind of like, it may have a germ of that idea in it, but that doesn't mean, I was watching recently The Curse of Peladon on DVD, and on the DVD commentary, Barry Letts and Terence Dix actually stayed outright.

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This was not designed as a parable for joining the common market.

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That was a starting point from which we thought, what would that be like in space?

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We're not saying that we're Peladon.

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We're not saying that we're the Galactic Federation in this.

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It's just what would it be like?

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That's the thing.

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Sometimes people read parable as depicting reality.

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And it's like, that's entirely not what parables are.

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I like that it can be about whatever ostracised or marginalised subculture that you wish to name.

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I didn't even pick up on the religious aspect.

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I was just thinking gender.

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Yeah you're right.

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Well, I mean, you've got like last season, remember, that there had to be some late minute editing done to Robot of Sherwood, because during the week, there had been an execution video released, and then we get that sort of hostage video from Osgood, flanked by the 2 Zygons and stuff, and that, that thing where you were getting extremists putting violent and threatening videos on YouTube and them turning up.

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Like, I think that that's the kind of imagery they're going around, like they are trying to make it now, but, but it's, it's about that in the same way, for instance, that the Siderians is about immigration or colonialism, where, sometimes the Siderians seem like indigenous people who have had their land stolen from them, but sometimes they seem like immigrants or we seem like immigrants or, do you know what I mean?

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Like no one plays any sort of particular role there, but it raises the sort of questions that are raised by those ideas.

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And I think here, you know, you've got the idea of immigration, you've got the idea of a demand that people should assimilate.

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You've got people who are hostile to that whole status quo and are trying to do something about it.

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And all of it, all of it sort of rings true because it's kind of taken from the headlines, I think.

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People who've been displaced.

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Yeah. and had to be resettled in a strange land and trying to fit in.

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One of my biggest takeaways in this episode is the fact that besides Ingrid, Oliver is Osgood, Kate Stewart is back and Gemma Redgrave actually has something to do. she is off to truth or consequences in New Mexico and there she meets a female sheriff.

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We've got her offsider Jack and it's great to see that continuity from the 1st episode to hear.

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We've got Colonel Walsh played by Rebecca Front.

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We've got Hinch Hitchley's mum played by Karen Mann and Hinchley.

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But most of the supporting cast are strong women characters.

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Yeah, it seems like unit is entirely women now, which including, including Peter Capaldi.

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Dr. Disco.

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Dr. Funkenstein from Tala Match, that album.

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But I just, Rebecca Frant and Malcolm Tucker together in those things. wonderful.

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I'm just waiting for him to tell her to... the eyes and the T. I just want to see her turn it on him and she kind of does.

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It's a great rapprochement.

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I think she wins the scene.

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Like, I think that she's absolutely in charge.

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And when she says that thing, it's not paranoia, if it could actually happen.

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Yeah, exactly, it's real.

141
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That's pretty great.

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It's actually great seeing her play a serious character.

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Like, I've seen her do a lot of comedy in a lot of different things.

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And I just love the fact that she's in this.

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I always think great comedic people make wonderful dramatic actors.

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So we have them split up sort of quite early on in the episode.

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So we have this sort of fairly straightforward thing where it's established that it's all falling down. and we find out that Ingrid, Oliver's character has been kidnapped, what, by the by the opening credits?

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That's the end of the opening credits.

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And then the plot splits up.

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And so we have Kate, we send Kate to truth or consequences, and we leave Jack, and we think it's, what's her name?

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Jesus Christ.

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We think it's Clara.

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And we think it's Clara.

154
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But it's actually Bonnie.

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Bonnie Bless.

156
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And then we send the doctor to made up a stand, which will occur again, I think, in the pyramid at the end of the world.

157
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So it's another place.

158
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I do get irritated by made up a stand.

159
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I do get I do too.

160
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I actually like Dr. Who set in real cases, like, you know, like, I mean, it's a fake show, as you all know, but I just like it when it's real and not making up funny abcois, cola sort of things in our real world.

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Yeah, I think that too.

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I'm not quite sure what it is, and I guess that they want to avoid being too obvious.

163
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Like they can't set it somewhere, you know, they can't set it.

164
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What is it?

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Is it cross between Turkey and Uzbekistan or something?

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Without sort of coming under some sort of fire saying, well, you're planning our country like such and such.

167
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Yeah, okay. get it.

168
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It's Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan.

169
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It's a portmanteau of the 2 and the geography roughly matches.

170
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You know.

171
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Yeah, because we see the flight path of boat one, the doctor's plane, heading back to London.

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He likes ponting about a fancy plane, yeah.

173
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That's so funny.

174
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And then when you cut Tim Ponting about, it's so much fun. so great.

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Something I did notice about our jet setting locations, and of course, you know, we go off, we go off to Termezistan, witches, whales.

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We go.

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We go down in the tunnel, which is the Barry Island tunnel from flatline again, and we go to truth or consequences, which is the Canary Islands.

178
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Oh, I thought it was Spain.

179
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Well, I suppose, yeah.

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Canary Islands.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, but yeah, it's it's it's the Canary Islands.

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So, uh, yeah.

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Gemma Redgrave gets to go on the international junket this year.

185
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Yeah, she's the only one who gets to go there.

186
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Right.

187
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I did true.

188
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They must have had to lure her back.

189
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But I think they realise all those locations well, you know?

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Yeah.

191
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Yes, totally.

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Whether it be New Mexico, which with the tumbleweeds and all that sort of stuff.

193
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I just remember the moment, the 1st time watching it where I realised those dumb tumbleweeds were clearly dead bodies of people who've been zapped by Zygons.

194
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It's actually clever.

195
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. where you kind of think, oh, come on, tumbleweeds, you've got to be kidding me.

196
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And that 1st one looks like it is being dragged across the shot by the end of a fishing wire.

197
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But it's clever when you realise that it's another one of those sort of electrified pubic merkins that is what everyone turns into.

198
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And there's the episode.

199
00:18:56.279 --> 00:19:06.960
Something I really appreciated about the locations is, now, um, truth or consequences, New Mexico, it's given the typical orange grade that you get with Mexico or New Mexico.

200
00:19:07.019 --> 00:19:25.799
However, Termenistan is given a blue grade, which is usually reserved for English speaking countries in English speaking film and TV, and usually Afghanistan and other countries in the region are given a harsh orange or yellow grade.

201
00:19:25.859 --> 00:19:26.819
But here...

202
00:19:26.819 --> 00:19:28.799
Like you saw last year in Doctor Who itself.

203
00:19:28.859 --> 00:19:29.640
Yeah.

204
00:19:29.700 --> 00:19:38.099
But here, you know, the area around the church and the village, it's lush, it's the blue sky is blue and the grass is very green.

205
00:19:38.220 --> 00:19:42.839
It's actually given a similar grade to the Scottish village in before the flood.

206
00:19:42.900 --> 00:19:50.039
It's kind of weird in that it's breaking a trope, but at the same time, I think that's designed to unnervous.

207
00:19:50.099 --> 00:19:59.220
We've been consuming this media set in this part of the world, but made by studios from America, the UK, et cetera.

208
00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:03.960
And we're used to seeing it with this red, orange, yellow grade.

209
00:20:04.019 --> 00:20:13.259
So we get something else, which I think is immediately unsettling, even though it's actually probably far more normal for that area of the world.

210
00:20:14.099 --> 00:20:16.500
I have written down in my notes.

211
00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:20.039
Great visuals of the village and New Mexico.

212
00:20:20.099 --> 00:20:25.319
So although I didn't necessarily pick up on that, I did think it was utterly beautiful and stunning.

213
00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:26.759
It's funny, isn't it?

214
00:20:26.819 --> 00:20:34.500
There's a sign which seems to be using a language in Roman letters on the outside of the approach of the village.

215
00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:37.500
So we see the establishing shot then where nearer in.

216
00:20:37.500 --> 00:20:42.960
And that's been defaced with whatever, because there's a special kind of writing.

217
00:20:43.079 --> 00:20:45.720
I think the Zygons use as well as their symbol.

218
00:20:46.619 --> 00:20:48.599
The white hand.

219
00:20:48.660 --> 00:20:49.680
I wonder where they got that from.

220
00:20:49.740 --> 00:20:52.740
Yeah, so it's got the it's got the hand, doesn't it?

221
00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:59.039
But it's like 3 fingered hand because the zycons here have 3 fingers, which I don't think they do in the classic era.

222
00:20:59.099 --> 00:21:00.240
No, they don't.

223
00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:00.960
Yeah.

224
00:21:01.019 --> 00:21:05.160
And a big Logan's run whole in the middle of it, were they?

225
00:21:05.220 --> 00:21:05.880
Yeah, yeah.

226
00:21:06.420 --> 00:21:16.319
And we do also get the doctor titivating the Zygon's controls again, just as he did in 1974, isn't it?

227
00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:19.740
Yeah, do I need to leave you 2 alone or something or are you enjoying that?

228
00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:22.740
And that was actually a properly revolting thing.

229
00:21:22.740 --> 00:21:37.259
And we didn't get quite as much of that in the day of the doctor, but there is a lot of that same lighting, the green and red lighting that we had that Dougie Farmfield did in 17 years.

230
00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:38.339
Or was it 1980?

231
00:21:38.759 --> 00:21:40.920
They do it so perfectly, don't they?

232
00:21:40.980 --> 00:21:46.019
She just says, there was an earlier icon invasion in the 70s, 80s, and she just throws it away.

233
00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:47.039
It's so brilliant.

234
00:21:54.180 --> 00:21:56.880
I've met Daniel Netheim.

235
00:21:56.940 --> 00:21:59.640
We all have, I think, or many of us have.

236
00:21:59.700 --> 00:22:06.960
So Daniel Netheim came to the big sort of day in Sydney...

237
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:08.160
The 50th anniversary...

238
00:22:08.279 --> 00:22:14.579
Yeah for the anniversary and so we had Capoldi and we had Sylvester and we had Ingrid Oliver, you think?

239
00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:16.079
And Stephen Moffat, I think.

240
00:22:16.140 --> 00:22:16.799
Yeah.

241
00:22:17.220 --> 00:22:25.319
And it was the day that we met Stephen B, friend of the podcast, Stephen B, and Daniel Netheim was there.

242
00:22:25.380 --> 00:22:30.359
And I kind of knew of him because his son went to my school.

243
00:22:30.420 --> 00:22:39.420
So I had had that link and he was the one who told Stephen Moffat about my school's Doctor Who club.

244
00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:50.339
But we had him actually come to the Doctor Who Club at school, Daniel Netheim, and he brought some props as well, and they were sort of goopy Zigony things.

245
00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:58.619
So that the smoke bomb, for instance, that lands in the playground, I think, looks, again, sort of revoltingly organic.

246
00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:11.160
And then there's that disgusting thing that Kate Stewart's speaking into in the final scene where she's using a Zigon communicator and it has something very gross sticking out of the end of it.

247
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:13.680
Like, I think they do a good job.

248
00:23:15.299 --> 00:23:19.559
Most of the grossness of that thing seem to be Tom's performance.

249
00:23:19.619 --> 00:23:23.099
Like Tom decided that he had to stroke the fleshy things.

250
00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:25.680
It got very squelchy time, didn't.

251
00:23:25.740 --> 00:23:31.140
John Woodenhart and Sister Lamont gave their fair share of sort of stroking the things as well.

252
00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:35.039
But here it's explicit in the script.

253
00:23:35.099 --> 00:23:54.299
And the other thing that I remember very well is an interview with Peter Harness done by El Sandafar, in which Peter Harness said that he listened to the soundtrack for Terror of the Zygons all the way through while he was writing the script, which I thought was a pretty great detail.

254
00:23:55.019 --> 00:24:02.940
So is that why we get nerve gas developed by a naval officer in the 1970s?

255
00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:04.380
I'm very cross about that.

256
00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:06.480
Are you, Brendan, who would never do that.

257
00:24:06.539 --> 00:24:08.579
Or criminal Harry Sullivan.

258
00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:09.779
Yeah, would do that.

259
00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:11.039
He wouldn't do that.

260
00:24:11.099 --> 00:24:18.660
Yeah, I mean, maybe you can head cannon as he, you know, he was trying to develop a better aspirin and accidentally created a nerve gas.

261
00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:23.460
But it's also the fact that they're like, oh, yeah, we took some of the Zygons in and created this.

262
00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:26.579
It's like, oh, so he was also Mengela.

263
00:24:26.700 --> 00:24:28.380
Yeah, yeah.

264
00:24:28.440 --> 00:24:30.299
It's not very well thought through, is it?

265
00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:31.319
That is...

266
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:33.720
Why, you know, why is this an heroic moment?

267
00:24:34.259 --> 00:24:35.700
Yeah.

268
00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:41.940
But, I mean, we need, so it's called Z 76, I want to say, or 67, Z 67.

269
00:24:42.180 --> 00:24:46.319
And I think we need it for next episode.

270
00:24:46.440 --> 00:24:53.880
But I really hate the idea that it was given to Harry to make.

271
00:24:53.940 --> 00:25:06.900
And he'd been kidnapped by the Zygons and all of that sort of thing, but that doesn't stop him being an immensely cuddly and loveable person and not the sort of person who would experiment on people in order to turn them inside out.

272
00:25:07.019 --> 00:25:22.500
It doesn't tally with the bumbling, loveable macintosh, straddled chap that we know and love. he was meant to be a bit of a bulldog drummond, so not to not too flaring on the upper brain capacities.

273
00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:25.559
So I'm not really sure where they're coming from with research scientists.

274
00:25:25.619 --> 00:25:27.539
I think that that was probably a mistake.

275
00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:33.839
Harry will get another mention next season, and it's a much happier mention.

276
00:25:33.900 --> 00:25:38.039
So maybe Stephen Moffatt's trying to make up for it.

277
00:25:38.099 --> 00:25:40.740
It is kind of creepy though, isn't it?

278
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:42.779
Yeah, it's just weird.

279
00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:50.099
And it's also weird to me, just from a digetic point of view, that Kate would tell Clara.

280
00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:54.420
Yeah, well, like, okay, she's the doctor's companion.

281
00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:55.440
Fine.

282
00:25:55.500 --> 00:26:00.779
But you're still heading up a supposedly top secret military organisation.

283
00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:05.099
It's like, generally your security's better than torchwood, but not this time.

284
00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:12.240
Yeah, but, you know, like the brigadier tells Sarah all about the disintegrated gun one day because he's bored.

285
00:26:12.299 --> 00:26:13.380
Do you know what I mean?

286
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:15.779
It's not like there's no precedent for this.

287
00:26:30.839 --> 00:26:34.859
Can I mention a part I didn't particularly like this time around?

288
00:26:34.920 --> 00:26:35.700
Oh, yeah.

289
00:26:35.880 --> 00:26:39.059
It's the soldiers being lured into the church.

290
00:26:39.119 --> 00:26:40.559
Oh, okay.

291
00:26:40.619 --> 00:26:41.700
Here's the thing.

292
00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:43.319
I like the concept.

293
00:26:43.559 --> 00:26:49.259
And I want to give a shout out to the actress playing the soldier's mother.

294
00:26:49.319 --> 00:26:54.900
I think she delivers a very good performance and there's the whole range of emotion in there.

295
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:58.140
And I think the soldier, I think her name is.

296
00:26:58.200 --> 00:26:59.940
I always questioned.

297
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:06.900
I always questions whether that was actually a real American accent or whether she's just, I'd love to know if it's actually her real accent.

298
00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:11.880
But anyway, it's interesting you're bringing this up because the 1st time I watched it, I always thought, oh, they're not going to fall for that.

299
00:27:11.940 --> 00:27:13.019
Like, but continue.

300
00:27:13.079 --> 00:27:13.619
Yeah.

301
00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:21.299
Well, my whole thing is, I think it's unbelievable that all 7 or 8 of them go inside.

302
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:22.259
That's right.

303
00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:29.819
So if it were a smaller team, if they're like, no, no, we're just taking in bare minimum, minimising loss of life, et cetera.

304
00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:31.980
So if it were like 2 or 3 people, I'd buy it.

305
00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:35.819
If 2 or 3 of them go in and the rest fall back, I'd buy it.

306
00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:41.700
But I think they just over egg it. with 6 or 7 of them going in.

307
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:45.599
You know, because they can only really have the 2 speaking parts.

308
00:27:45.660 --> 00:27:57.119
And so you see that happening to one person and then the whole rest are sort of told in this shorthand by various other people clearly unrelated to that soldier coming out as well.

309
00:27:57.180 --> 00:28:02.160
But yes, they all just sort of tromp in their like massive morons.

310
00:28:02.220 --> 00:28:09.900
And like it is, I think enough is said between those 2 main characters in it that I buy him going in.

311
00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:11.579
Yeah, totally.

312
00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:12.420
But the rest of them.

313
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:16.319
Yeah, I think, yeah, now that you've brought it up, I totally agree.

314
00:28:16.380 --> 00:28:18.359
Like, I don't think all of them would have gone.

315
00:28:18.420 --> 00:28:18.660
No.

316
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:23.759
And it is, they all just kind of traipse in after him, you know, without saying anything to anyone.

317
00:28:23.819 --> 00:28:25.440
It's all a little bit sort of grummy.

318
00:28:25.500 --> 00:28:29.279
I do think the scene with the drone controller with Lisa.

319
00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:33.720
Again, is not overdone as well.

320
00:28:33.779 --> 00:28:38.819
Like, you'd have to be in another room altogether to not pick up what was being said.

321
00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:46.680
It wasn't sort of super subtle or anything, but just relying on the visuals to tell you rather than the dialogue is kind of refreshing.

322
00:28:46.740 --> 00:28:48.660
And I thought that that worked really well.

323
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:51.000
And we get an explanation of it later.

324
00:28:51.059 --> 00:29:12.059
We get the idea that a Zygon can take a loved one from your memory and recreate them because we know very clearly what the rules are for zygons and they're established in terror of the zygons to give the zygons a reason for not killing the duke.

325
00:29:12.119 --> 00:29:18.119
You know, they have to keep the duke alive, not just to keep the patent alive, or, well, that's what they say.

326
00:29:18.180 --> 00:29:20.220
They have to renew the pattern or something like that.

327
00:29:20.279 --> 00:29:37.980
And it looks like now there's been some kind of technological advancement and now they only need to keep the link in order to get new information from the person or if they revert back, then they have to have access to the living person to change again.

328
00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:39.599
So all of that.

329
00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:51.960
Like, it does the right thing by acknowledging that the rules have changed by making the doctor say what the rules were originally in that conversation with Oscar, where he says you have to be.

330
00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:54.539
Because I think we were saying that, weren't we?

331
00:29:54.599 --> 00:30:01.200
I'm sure we were saying like they have to keep the original has to be kept alive, so Osgood has to be like the human.

332
00:30:01.259 --> 00:30:04.140
Yes, because otherwise the pattern would have reverted.

333
00:30:04.200 --> 00:30:04.740
That's right.

334
00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:07.500
But look, yeah, so they have to explain that away.

335
00:30:07.559 --> 00:30:14.460
But I do, I do miss the, like, the little cubicle things that, you know, they put their hands in in the little shield that comes out.

336
00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:18.720
But I guess that was in the spaceship rather than like the pod version that are transportable.

337
00:30:18.779 --> 00:30:19.740
You know what I mean?

338
00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:23.160
The transportable pods just look like giant zygon heads, don't they?

339
00:30:23.220 --> 00:30:25.740
Like they've even got rows of suckers up the thing.

340
00:30:26.220 --> 00:30:28.140
I beg your pardon?

341
00:30:32.099 --> 00:30:37.079
Organic Christallography stays. crystalography.

342
00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:48.599
Did you, on 1st watching, or even this time through, did you always buy that, did you always suspect that Clara wasn't Clara?

343
00:30:48.660 --> 00:30:50.940
Like, I think it's actually done quite well.

344
00:30:51.000 --> 00:31:03.599
I mean, you kind of think there's something off about the house and the apartment that she goes into with the little boy and the parents are strange and then now when she comes out and she does the whole putting a hair in the ponytail as Bonnie.

345
00:31:03.660 --> 00:31:08.519
Like it's now obvious, but I actually think it's done in a good enough way that you can have doubts.

346
00:31:08.579 --> 00:31:09.359
Do you know what I mean?

347
00:31:09.420 --> 00:31:11.819
So I haven't gone back.

348
00:31:11.880 --> 00:31:15.359
I think I've said this before, that this is the season of Doctor Who that I know the least.

349
00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:23.519
There are some black and white ones maybe, but like this is the one that I've not gone back and watched very often.

350
00:31:23.579 --> 00:31:35.339
And so when I saw her appear for the 1st time, she's got like much red lipstick and a much more, like more foundation on or something, something about her look that is different.

351
00:31:35.339 --> 00:31:40.859
And we get the Clara theme, but it's not the normal Clara theme, it's arranged a slightly different way.

352
00:31:40.859 --> 00:31:45.720
And I wondered whether maybe she was already Bonnie at that point.

353
00:31:45.779 --> 00:31:49.500
I thought the calamari loop earrings were indexed.

354
00:31:49.619 --> 00:31:51.059
That's right.

355
00:31:51.059 --> 00:31:52.799
That's it.

356
00:32:03.660 --> 00:32:29.640
But, Nathan, you are quite right, because she has the red lipstick, and there's a whole slightly different look, and I think Jenna actually plays it really well, especially when poor Jack at the end comes to the horrible realisation that it's a trap and they're all going to be killed and just Jenna's look, and I'm going into the next episode, I really think she does a great job of distinguishing between Bonnie and Clara.

357
00:32:29.700 --> 00:32:37.500
No wonder she had to have last week off because she's got she's got drinks so much heavy hitting in these episodes and all the subtle stuff that she's doing.

358
00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:42.359
I think she absolutely again proves to me why she is such a great actress.

359
00:32:42.420 --> 00:32:48.299
Do you know, I think Jack is really great in that scene as well, because again, we don't know.

360
00:32:48.359 --> 00:32:52.980
The thing that we don't know is we know what the rules are for the zygons, right?

361
00:32:53.039 --> 00:33:02.579
But we don't know whether the news story is going to stuff that up inadvertently because they're just being careless with continuity.

362
00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:08.039
And so when Jack says they're growing duplicates of us.

363
00:33:08.099 --> 00:33:13.319
We actually aren't in a position as viewers to know whether that's true or not.

364
00:33:13.380 --> 00:33:18.359
And so when Jack comes in and says no, Zygons don't work like that.

365
00:33:18.420 --> 00:33:21.539
That's kind of what we've been thinking as well.

366
00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:24.660
Zygons don't grow duplicates.

367
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:26.880
They turn into duplicates of you.

368
00:33:26.940 --> 00:33:28.380
That's not how it works.

369
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:29.700
And of course, she's right.

370
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:30.900
She's absolutely right.

371
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:35.039
And that's the moment where Bonnie reveals herself because she's been sprung.

372
00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:36.839
I think Jack is really great.

373
00:33:36.900 --> 00:33:38.880
I mean, she was always great.

374
00:33:38.940 --> 00:33:41.400
I love Drin Bugs back in the 90s.

375
00:33:41.460 --> 00:33:41.880
Oh, okay.

376
00:33:41.940 --> 00:33:43.319
Oh yeah, of course.

377
00:33:43.380 --> 00:33:45.240
But yeah, I've always liked her as an actress.

378
00:33:45.299 --> 00:33:47.579
So when she popped up in episode one.

379
00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:52.619
I kind of thought, this is interesting casting somebody who is people would be familiar with of certain age.

380
00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:55.500
Like, she's just in this one episode.

381
00:33:55.619 --> 00:34:01.380
So bringing her back in here and having her play such an important role up, you know, in this episode, I think was brilliant.

382
00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:12.659
Something subtle, I think they do to help you not realise that Clara has been replaced is just before Clara goes into the flat.

383
00:34:12.719 --> 00:34:18.719
She hears the voice message from Dr. Disco, but then she hangs up to talk to the kid.

384
00:34:18.780 --> 00:34:23.699
And then after she comes out of the flat, She calls the doctor and says, did you just call yourself Dr. Disco?

385
00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:28.679
So she's continuing the conversation that the real Clara was having.

386
00:34:28.920 --> 00:34:31.500
I think they cheat, though.

387
00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:45.420
I think that Daniel Nedheim does cheat because the reprise version is slightly different from what we actually saw on screen, but I do like that it happens as Jack is being killed.

388
00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:50.099
So that's explaining how come what we've seen happen has happened.

389
00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:55.139
We don't get to see it until after Bonnie swings into action and has Jack killed.

390
00:34:55.260 --> 00:35:04.559
Remember we see it the 1st time, but then we see a revised version of it where we actually see the Zygon version.

391
00:35:04.619 --> 00:35:05.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

392
00:35:05.639 --> 00:35:07.800
And so we actually see what really happened.

393
00:35:07.860 --> 00:35:17.400
So we get to see a sort of slightly faked version of it 1st earlier on in the episode, but we only see what really happened after Bonnie's unmasked.

394
00:35:17.699 --> 00:35:19.139
Right.

395
00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:28.199
Did anybody else notice that Clara is getting in on the Dr. Cosplay game with Osgood in that she's got this flowing black coat and a frilly white shirt?

396
00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:31.440
Oh, and the red lipstick.

397
00:35:31.500 --> 00:35:33.239
And the red lipstick.

398
00:35:33.239 --> 00:35:35.219
Off John Pertwheat. right.

399
00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:36.719
Too much Foundation.

400
00:35:36.780 --> 00:35:37.860
It all clicks.

401
00:35:39.539 --> 00:35:43.860
But it does have a sort of poetry sort of vibe to it, doesn't it?

402
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:45.719
It has an ambassadors of death kind of thing.

403
00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:54.539
But it is deciding to do something on a massive scale, which I think really works.

404
00:35:54.539 --> 00:35:56.519
And they managed to pull it off.

405
00:35:56.579 --> 00:35:58.679
They, you know, within their budget.

406
00:35:58.739 --> 00:36:10.380
There's a lot of speaking parts in this episode, like quite a lot, many more than normal, but they use the money to really sell that we're in sort of several places at once.

407
00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:17.340
What do we think of the British invasion of truth or consequences?

408
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:20.159
Well, we all know monsters speak with RP, don't we?

409
00:36:20.219 --> 00:36:21.300
Well, I think that's it.

410
00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:27.960
Do you remember Donny Arana deciding that the Santarans and the Shockeye must be English?

411
00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:29.159
You are English?

412
00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:30.960
When she hears them speaking.

413
00:36:31.019 --> 00:36:33.119
So that's what I'm assuming has happened.

414
00:36:33.179 --> 00:36:34.679
But remember that we are told that...

415
00:36:34.679 --> 00:36:35.880
She was also going on their appearance.

416
00:36:37.619 --> 00:36:42.119
We were told that they were mostly kind of moving to Britain.

417
00:36:42.179 --> 00:36:53.940
I'm just not quite sure what the truth or consequences bit is actually doing there beyond giving Kate something to do.

418
00:36:54.659 --> 00:36:57.539
Well, obviously we need to get her out of the way.

419
00:36:57.599 --> 00:37:04.380
We need to make it appear that she's actually being compromised, but she's going to come in and save the day.

420
00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:05.280
Yeah.

421
00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:08.880
And if we had her back in Britain, then she could potentially be killed.

422
00:37:08.940 --> 00:37:09.900
Do you know what I mean?

423
00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:12.539
Like, so it's basically to save the character.

424
00:37:12.599 --> 00:37:15.480
Yeah. some colour and movement.

425
00:37:15.539 --> 00:37:17.880
There's that electric tumbleweed again.

426
00:37:17.940 --> 00:37:20.820
Yeah, we've got a 2 and we've got another 2 parter.

427
00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:26.219
So we have to actually have we've got space in the story, you know?

428
00:37:26.280 --> 00:37:33.300
I'm just kind of kind of exactly wondering what's going on there because essentially it's like an event, a big thing happens.

429
00:37:33.360 --> 00:37:43.980
We learn all about the history of this town, but it's essentially given to us by one character who just narrates it. and then is there to menace her for the cliffhanger.

430
00:37:44.039 --> 00:37:58.920
So, like, if I had one criticism, it would be that perhaps that was a bigger thread that had been cut down to the point where you're wondering whether it actually contributes anything very much to what's going on.

431
00:37:58.980 --> 00:38:01.920
Because we start in truth or consequences, don't we?

432
00:38:01.980 --> 00:38:04.199
That's where Osgood's kidnapped from.

433
00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:05.519
Yes.

434
00:38:05.579 --> 00:38:06.000
Yeah.

435
00:38:06.059 --> 00:38:06.539
Yes.

436
00:38:06.599 --> 00:38:10.800
But otherwise it's not entirely certain what that's doing there.

437
00:38:10.860 --> 00:38:19.920
And there's, there is that great moment, I think, where the scary sheriff who we just assume is racist because she's white and it's New Mexico.

438
00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:38.280
And so when she actually starts to express sympathy for the child's icon that didn't really know how to retain its body print and then everyone in the town reacts badly to that and that's where things start to really properly escalate.

439
00:38:38.340 --> 00:38:40.679
Like, I think that's quite good.

440
00:38:40.739 --> 00:38:43.500
And I think the cliffhanger is pretty good.

441
00:38:43.619 --> 00:38:46.559
So we've got a triple cliffhanger.

442
00:38:46.619 --> 00:38:47.699
Yes, yeah.

443
00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:49.619
So, yeah, tying back to aliens of London again.

444
00:38:49.679 --> 00:38:50.400
Yeah, yeah.

445
00:38:50.460 --> 00:38:52.800
We've got Kate and the Zigon.

446
00:38:52.860 --> 00:38:53.340
Yep.

447
00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:56.820
We've got Bonnie on the coast with the bazooka.

448
00:38:56.880 --> 00:39:07.559
Yep. launching at the doctor in the plane. and we get someone who we think is probably a Zygon calling Bonnie up.

449
00:39:07.619 --> 00:39:11.699
So Kate is calling Bonnie up on the Zygon communicator.

450
00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:12.360
Yeah.

451
00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:13.019
Okay.

452
00:39:13.079 --> 00:39:16.079
So we think she's been taken over by the Zygons.

453
00:39:16.139 --> 00:39:23.039
And it's another slight cheat from Netheim, I think, because next week's reprise isn't exactly what we see on screen.

454
00:39:23.099 --> 00:39:35.820
Bonnie shoots the bazooka and then we hear an offscreen explosion of some kind, but it's not exactly clear what's going on and that's made clear at the beginning of the next episode.

455
00:39:36.239 --> 00:39:38.699
There's a lot going on in this episode.

456
00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:45.300
I mean, even the talk of the hybrids brought back into it, you know, with Osgood humans are gone by the doctor.

457
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:48.360
Yeah. to keep that bit of a thread going.

458
00:39:48.420 --> 00:39:59.579
It really is so perfunctory that I don't even know where it ends up, but it's like, oh, and maybe this week they're the hybrid or is it a shilder?

459
00:39:59.639 --> 00:40:01.619
Or is it Davros?

460
00:40:01.619 --> 00:40:05.159
Or like it could be me and Missy.

461
00:40:05.219 --> 00:40:07.380
Like, like...

462
00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:09.840
It's like, it's like Jeopardy or something.

463
00:40:09.840 --> 00:40:13.199
Like, you know, I pick, who's the hybrid for $500.

464
00:40:13.559 --> 00:40:14.940
That's it.

465
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:19.739
Like, I think it's probably deliberately a bit crap.

466
00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:22.320
And like Moffatt will do his usual thing.

467
00:40:22.380 --> 00:40:33.179
I'm saying, actually, in a real sense, the hybrid was all the friends we made along the way or something was all of us, every single one or something like that.

468
00:40:33.239 --> 00:40:47.280
The thing is, though, I do kind of go, is the having to make sure you mention the hybrid at least once every 2 episodes is that any better or worse than, did that person just say Bad Wolf Torchwood missing Planet Saxon?

469
00:40:48.300 --> 00:40:58.739
It's certainly better than showing us the doctor looking at that video on the screen of Amy being pregnant and not pregnant at the same time, like every episode.

470
00:40:59.159 --> 00:41:03.480
I saw some graffiti on the wall, something about the hybrid.

471
00:41:03.599 --> 00:41:04.079
Yeah.

472
00:41:04.139 --> 00:41:05.039
Yeah.

473
00:41:05.039 --> 00:41:05.820
Yeah.

474
00:41:07.079 --> 00:41:26.159
Something I found very interesting about the Kate element of the cliffhanger is when she's sitting at the desk and she realises who the cop is, there's an identicate photo behind Kate that looks a lot like the cop.

475
00:41:26.219 --> 00:41:27.539
Oh, okay.

476
00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:35.400
I don't think we've really focussed on it before, but by focussing on the fact that she's behind Kate and in front of Kate.

477
00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:37.320
There's 2 of them.

478
00:41:37.800 --> 00:41:40.980
There are some great visual touches here.

479
00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:46.380
And for instance, the scenes in Clara's apartment building.

480
00:41:46.679 --> 00:41:56.159
When she goes into the little kids flat, it's, I think, flats 52 and 51 and they're 2 doors right next to each other.

481
00:41:56.219 --> 00:41:57.239
One, two.

482
00:41:57.300 --> 00:42:03.239
When she goes home to collect some things, it's 63 and 64 next to each other, three, four.

483
00:42:03.300 --> 00:42:03.900
Right.

484
00:42:03.960 --> 00:42:09.599
So, you know, we go from 2 duplicates. 3 duplicates.

485
00:42:09.659 --> 00:42:14.280
For duplicates, you know, and the kind of escalates.

486
00:42:14.340 --> 00:42:17.039
Oh, God, I just think of the lift.

487
00:42:17.099 --> 00:42:26.579
But I find it hard to believe that these elements of sort of duality and doubles in the cinematography were accidental.

488
00:42:26.639 --> 00:42:40.380
I do love the way that they cheaply move the camera across to a reaction from Cade and then move back after the ladies run away and has been placed by a Zigon.

489
00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:57.179
And I can't help remembering how incredibly great that special effect was in Day of the Doctor, where Kate actually just turns into a zigon on screen with what looked like a very effective and expensive CGI effect.

490
00:42:57.239 --> 00:42:58.260
Do you remember it?

491
00:42:58.320 --> 00:42:59.639
When she vomits.

492
00:42:59.699 --> 00:43:02.820
Yeah, she vomits and then turns into us. it looks so gross.

493
00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:04.800
It's wonderful Yes, it's so gross.

494
00:43:04.860 --> 00:43:10.679
I hate it so much Look, you had to give kudos to an episode that has a picture of William Harton on the wall.

495
00:43:10.739 --> 00:43:12.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. pretty great.

496
00:43:12.659 --> 00:43:14.639
I got a real flash when I saw it.

497
00:43:14.699 --> 00:43:15.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

498
00:43:15.420 --> 00:43:16.980
I missed it.

499
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:25.679
So the safe in the safe house in South London has a picture of Hartwell on the wall and we actually open that and go in and look for things later.

500
00:43:25.739 --> 00:43:27.239
So it's definitely...

501
00:43:27.360 --> 00:43:31.860
I must have been making a note when that was... pretty awesome. pretty great.

502
00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:33.960
It's really interesting when you're watching this.

503
00:43:34.019 --> 00:43:36.900
Like, I always forget that it's not written by Stephen Moffatt.

504
00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:39.480
Like next week he is co-writer.

505
00:43:39.539 --> 00:43:49.739
But, you know, this week it's not him and I know I was thinking, oh, yeah, Stephen's bought back Ozgood and all that and I'm sure, you know, it was all of his idea, but I just kind of forget that.

506
00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:54.599
I just really enjoyed this so much more this time round.

507
00:43:54.659 --> 00:44:13.619
Well, it just solidified that it is, I think, a really strong episode, and I've said earlier on, I think this one I enjoy more than I do next week slightly, although there's terrific stuff with Osgood, and obviously you'll talk about the doctor's speech, you know, towards the end of that episode.

508
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:16.079
I guess the one thing I'll say is this.

509
00:44:16.139 --> 00:44:19.380
And next week it's mentioned the same old, same old.

510
00:44:19.380 --> 00:44:29.280
And it's the one thing in these episodes that I just want to briefly mention before we have to stop, is that the villain is faced by Jenna Coleman, who we know.

511
00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:33.659
And it's the same old, same old, and this all goes back today, the doctor.

512
00:44:33.719 --> 00:44:59.699
At this point in the season, I'm finding it's not, I don't want to say fresh, but I feel there's something about it, that I'm just saying, I feel like I'm treading water with these characters, or there's something where I'm not, like I've watched all these episodes and you've heard me talk about how much I'm really liking this season, even the episodes I don't like as much, and there's great performances and consistency, but I get to this point in the season, and it will go into sleep no more a bit, where I just kind of feel tired.

513
00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:05.880
And I don't know whether it's having all these 2 partters or having the villain played by members of the cast.

514
00:45:05.940 --> 00:45:11.940
I think next week there's only one extra character that's not a member of the semi-regular cast.

515
00:45:12.059 --> 00:45:15.900
And I don't know if that's affecting the ratings.

516
00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:29.159
I mean, I've been talking about that, you know, where hovering high-fives, low 6s, whether it's that feel, but it's the one thing that I just wanted to bring up at this point, whether you talk about it or not in next week's episode, I don't know, but it's just something that I'm aware of.

517
00:45:29.219 --> 00:45:41.820
I think it's something to talk about in the season because I'm finding going back to this. that I'm really enjoying it a lot more than I remember and a lot more than I expected.

518
00:45:41.880 --> 00:45:48.000
But I think it's a bit introspective.

519
00:45:48.059 --> 00:45:49.679
So, yeah.

520
00:45:50.280 --> 00:45:50.760
Thank you, Nathan.

521
00:45:50.820 --> 00:45:51.780
Yeah, yeah.

522
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:54.239
It took me a while to come up with that word, actually.

523
00:45:54.300 --> 00:46:12.599
It's because the 1st story is all about the Dr. Missy and Davros, that stuff that I was saying earlier, that we are examining the show as we have it, and this is very much, here are the consequences from day of the doctor.

524
00:46:12.659 --> 00:46:14.099
And that's a good thing.

525
00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:16.320
You know, that's a good thing.

526
00:46:16.380 --> 00:46:18.059
And it's something that Moffatt doesn't often do.

527
00:46:18.119 --> 00:46:24.059
Like it doesn't often give us the consequences, but it's...

528
00:46:24.119 --> 00:46:41.519
I just remember, um, Eric Stadnick on the writer's room saying that the thing that he didn't like about the RTD era, or one of the things that he started to feel towards the end of the era, perhaps, is that its world is small.

529
00:46:41.579 --> 00:46:44.159
It inhabits a small world.

530
00:46:44.219 --> 00:46:47.219
Like everyone kind of knows everyone else.

531
00:46:47.280 --> 00:46:50.340
Everything in the world's happening to the same group of people.

532
00:46:50.340 --> 00:46:51.480
Is that happening here?

533
00:46:51.539 --> 00:46:54.119
It's interesting what you're saying there.

534
00:46:54.179 --> 00:46:59.880
I'm sort of getting it like, you know, we've got Missy and Davros and our little unit world in those 1st episodes.

535
00:46:59.880 --> 00:47:04.920
In the 2nd world, we are trapped in that little world with those people in the base on just siege in the next 2 episodes.

536
00:47:04.980 --> 00:47:18.719
It's a shielder and the doctor and that little world and and just him talking to either a shielder or to Clara and here we're going back to something that we're seen before we're trapped in our own little worlds.

537
00:47:18.780 --> 00:47:19.619
We're introspective.

538
00:47:19.739 --> 00:47:21.900
There's something about it that's sort of hemming me in.

539
00:47:21.960 --> 00:47:25.500
I just feel this sort of inward sort of pressure, if I can say that.

540
00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:29.639
I guess it's something we'll talk about at the end of the season and see where all that goes.

541
00:47:29.699 --> 00:47:34.980
Because I'm just trying to work out where the relief comes from when series 10 comes along.

542
00:47:35.039 --> 00:47:49.320
Because I think some of us did feel some relief that we threw all of that stuff away. away, that we sort of emerged from a long period of doing the same sort of thing into something that seemed a bit newer and fresher.

543
00:47:49.380 --> 00:47:50.280
I'm not sure.

544
00:47:50.340 --> 00:47:51.059
I'm not sure.

545
00:47:51.119 --> 00:47:52.380
But it's interesting to think about.

546
00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:23.579
Well, there is now we're going to pop off now and see if we can find any parachutes anywhere.

547
00:48:23.639 --> 00:48:27.659
With a bit of luck, we'll be back next week in the Zygon inversion.

548
00:48:27.719 --> 00:48:39.659
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us at our website, flights are in tidy.com, where you'll find all our social media links, as well as links to our other podcasts.

549
00:48:39.719 --> 00:48:45.059
Bondfinger, Jody interterra, maximum power, and untitled Star Trek project.

550
00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:50.280
Until next time, remember to live out your lives in peace and harmony.

551
00:48:50.340 --> 00:48:52.139
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

552
00:48:52.199 --> 00:48:53.280
See you soon.

553
00:48:53.340 --> 00:48:56.219
And I'll be waving a tendril from the balcony.

554
00:48:56.280 --> 00:48:57.239
Good night.

555
00:49:03.300 --> 00:49:08.159
That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Todd Beelby, Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone.

556
00:49:08.219 --> 00:49:10.559
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

557
00:49:10.619 --> 00:49:18.000
This episode, Electrified pubic Merkins, was recorded on the 10th of September 2023 and released on the 29th of October.

558
00:49:21.059 --> 00:49:27.599
Today, we're pleased to announce the debut of our new Space 1999 commentary podcast, Startling Barbara Bain.

559
00:49:27.719 --> 00:49:33.300
You can find it at startlingbarbrabain.com and in all good podcast directories.

560
00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:41.159
Brandon's falling asleep.

561
00:49:41.219 --> 00:49:41.940
Nothing more to say?

562
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:42.780
Very tired.

563
00:49:42.840 --> 00:49:44.219
Well, it was just nicely cooked.

564
00:49:44.340 --> 00:49:44.940
Not falling asleep.

565
00:49:44.940 --> 00:49:47.219
It's just something I wanted to bring up.

566
00:49:47.280 --> 00:49:47.820
Yeah, yeah.

567
00:49:47.880 --> 00:49:49.500
Just feeling it as this season goes.

568
00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:51.420
Because Joe said tired.

569
00:49:51.420 --> 00:49:55.320
And I said, and I thought to myself, you know, doesn't he look tired?

570
00:49:55.320 --> 00:49:57.179
But that's something that's not something in the show.

571
00:49:57.239 --> 00:49:59.219
That's something that's happening in behind your eyes.

572
00:49:59.280 --> 00:50:00.239
Do you know what I mean?

573
00:50:00.300 --> 00:50:07.619
Like unless you can point to a thing that's happening in the show, then Thai's not a criticism of the show, but it is how you feel about it.

574
00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:10.980
So what you need to do is kind of go, well, what is it?

575
00:50:11.039 --> 00:50:13.139
Why is it making me feel tired?

576
00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:15.239
What's in the show that's doing that?

577
00:50:15.300 --> 00:50:17.760
And I think maybe that's it's Moffat.

578
00:50:17.820 --> 00:50:18.780
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

579
00:50:18.840 --> 00:50:20.699
I think I think it's introspection.

580
00:50:20.760 --> 00:50:24.539
He's starting to... so think about the... not a young woman anymore.

581
00:50:24.599 --> 00:50:29.219
No, the fun of series five, the fun of series six, the...

582
00:50:29.219 --> 00:50:30.420
Gorgeous energy.

583
00:50:30.420 --> 00:50:36.659
Fun of 7A, the episodes in 7B. Do you know what I mean?

584
00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:39.119
The shot in the arm that it gets with series 8.

585
00:50:39.179 --> 00:50:41.880
And then it's kind of like, well what am I doing?

586
00:50:41.940 --> 00:50:50.099
And, like, almost, like, we having all these 2 parters, so we don't have to come up with lots of...

587
00:50:50.099 --> 00:50:52.440
Like, you are 12 stories.

588
00:50:52.860 --> 00:50:54.659
It's a fair point.

589
00:50:54.780 --> 00:50:56.760
I would conjecture.

590
00:50:56.820 --> 00:51:00.719
Perhaps he's just doing what he does so well, which is I need to shake it up again.

591
00:51:00.780 --> 00:51:01.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

592
00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:08.219
Because he'd done this, he hadn't done 2 part of the scene 8, apart from the finale, and series 7 didn't have any at all.

593
00:51:08.280 --> 00:51:13.079
And he's a big fan of what we grew up with for part stork.

594
00:51:13.139 --> 00:51:21.179
He wrote the 2nd two-parter of the new series and he wrote the last two-parter of the RTD era, apart from end of time, I guess.

595
00:51:21.239 --> 00:51:23.159
And both of those are magnificent.

596
00:51:23.219 --> 00:51:24.179
Like they're extraordinary.

597
00:51:24.239 --> 00:51:25.860
He can do 2 parters, you know.

598
00:51:25.920 --> 00:51:27.420
What do you think, Todd?

599
00:51:27.420 --> 00:51:28.500
You're not...

600
00:51:28.559 --> 00:51:29.219
No, that's great.

601
00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:30.179
That's a great discussion.

602
00:51:30.239 --> 00:51:34.019
And I'm sure we'll bring it up again as we take notes.

603
00:51:34.079 --> 00:51:36.840
Ask questions in the retrospect.

604
00:51:36.960 --> 00:51:39.000
But how do you feel about the tired thing, though?

605
00:51:39.059 --> 00:51:42.119
But I thought about that as I was watching it.

606
00:51:42.179 --> 00:51:44.219
Like, what is it?

607
00:51:44.280 --> 00:51:46.679
Am I feeling I'm tired of something.

608
00:51:46.739 --> 00:51:47.699
Like I'm feeling tired.

609
00:51:47.760 --> 00:51:48.719
Why am I feeling tired?

610
00:51:48.780 --> 00:51:50.400
It's because of these 2 partters.

611
00:51:50.519 --> 00:51:52.440
I think we've discussed a bit. that was good.

612
00:51:52.500 --> 00:51:54.360
I thought that was probably good ennui.

613
00:51:54.420 --> 00:51:55.199
So French.

614
00:51:55.260 --> 00:51:58.440
No, because I wanted to pinpoint in the show what's happening.

615
00:51:58.800 --> 00:52:07.260
I only think what it is, is that we don't have a fun new element this season.

616
00:52:07.320 --> 00:52:09.659
We have new elements.

617
00:52:09.719 --> 00:52:11.340
And they're not fun.

618
00:52:11.400 --> 00:52:12.780
I'm not saying they're bad.

619
00:52:12.840 --> 00:52:15.059
They're not bad, but they're not fun.

620
00:52:15.119 --> 00:52:16.380
We don't have a new companion.

621
00:52:16.440 --> 00:52:18.000
We don't have a new doctor.

622
00:52:18.059 --> 00:52:29.940
And the new recurring supporting cast member we get is playing a character who has to watch her loved ones die over and over again and then she has to write it down.

623
00:52:30.780 --> 00:52:35.460
She has to write it down because she forgets because she needs to remind herself of the pain.

624
00:52:35.519 --> 00:52:37.980
It's not, it's a great idea.

625
00:52:38.039 --> 00:52:40.380
It's and it's so well done.

626
00:52:40.440 --> 00:52:42.599
Is it fun?

627
00:52:42.659 --> 00:52:47.039
So do you remember when the show starts again in 2005, right?

628
00:52:47.099 --> 00:52:57.780
I just wanted it to be the doctor and Billy and like they don't mention regeneration for a good reason because it's daft and we'll only do it in the direst of emergencies.

629
00:52:57.840 --> 00:53:01.679
And so I just imagine the show being the doctor and Billy for ages and ages.

630
00:53:01.739 --> 00:53:02.340
Do you know what I mean?

631
00:53:02.400 --> 00:53:03.840
The doctor and Rose travelling together.

632
00:53:03.900 --> 00:53:06.000
You know, they worked really well, all of that.

633
00:53:06.059 --> 00:53:11.219
But every year Russell gets to introduce a new character.

634
00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:16.380
And it turns out that that makes the show really propulsive and keeps it fresh.

635
00:53:16.440 --> 00:53:22.139
Because he understands what the audience's appetite, actually how voracious we are.

636
00:53:22.199 --> 00:53:23.519
And fickle, I would say.

637
00:53:23.639 --> 00:53:27.239
Oh, and also Doctor Who isn't a thing where you have to start from the beginning.

638
00:53:27.300 --> 00:53:29.159
Like, I'd like to start watching Doctor Who.

639
00:53:29.280 --> 00:53:34.139
So can anyone tell me where I could buy a DVD of an unearthly child?

640
00:53:34.199 --> 00:53:35.219
Like you don't have to do that.

641
00:53:35.280 --> 00:53:38.039
You can just turn it on one day.

642
00:53:38.099 --> 00:53:40.440
I would say it is about the producers.

643
00:53:40.500 --> 00:53:41.280
It is.

644
00:53:41.340 --> 00:53:47.820
I mean, Hinchcliffe will be bored and yeah, will be bored with 3 seasons of Liz Sladin?

645
00:53:47.880 --> 00:53:48.840
I don't believe any of us were.

646
00:53:48.960 --> 00:53:49.739
No.

647
00:53:49.800 --> 00:53:50.699
Yeah.

648
00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:51.659
Yeah.

649
00:53:51.719 --> 00:53:59.219
But I think for the new series, because the new series is more centred on the characters, do you know what I mean?

650
00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:04.260
Like, as people, like, the characters of plot functions in the 70s.

651
00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:05.039
Do you know what I mean?

652
00:54:05.099 --> 00:54:05.639
They're characters.

653
00:54:05.699 --> 00:54:09.059
They're definitely characters and we like them and care about them and stuff. rapey billboards.

654
00:54:09.119 --> 00:54:11.880
But what we don't, do you know what I mean?

655
00:54:11.940 --> 00:54:18.480
we don't get the let's introduce the show again to Martha and how fresh that seems, you know, how interesting that is.

656
00:54:19.139 --> 00:54:20.579
Yeah.

657
00:54:20.639 --> 00:54:22.380
Yeah, yeah.

658
00:54:22.440 --> 00:54:24.420
I think I think there's something in that, isn't there?

659
00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:25.559
Okay.

660
00:54:25.559 --> 00:54:26.519
All right.

661
00:54:26.579 --> 00:54:27.900
I think we've done.

662
00:54:27.960 --> 00:54:29.219
That's a tag anyway.

663
00:54:29.280 --> 00:54:31.139
I think that's a good tag, don't you think?

664
00:54:31.199 --> 00:54:32.519
Yeah, yeah.

665
00:54:32.579 --> 00:54:37.139
Now, Todd, I've mentioned this on a recording we've done, but you won't have heard it yet.

666
00:54:37.199 --> 00:54:47.219
So a friend of mine listens to the podcast and I can't remember which story he was talking about, possibly under the lake before the flood, and he wasn't a huge fan of it to begin with.

667
00:54:47.340 --> 00:54:56.159
And he re, he's rewatched it recently and he was saying to me one day, I've had, I've had, Oh, I've had my, I've had my Brad moment.

668
00:54:56.219 --> 00:54:57.360
I said, you've had your what?

669
00:54:57.420 --> 00:55:02.639
Oh, that guy that guy on your podcast who hates everything until he watches it again.

670
00:55:02.699 --> 00:55:04.079
I'm like, that's the Todd experience.

671
00:55:04.139 --> 00:55:05.519
Yes, I've had a Todd experience.

672
00:55:05.699 --> 00:55:07.739
A sad moment.

673
00:55:07.800 --> 00:55:09.900
That's my bread moment.

674
00:55:09.900 --> 00:55:12.900
Romana Voltra, Brendan.

675
00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:13.980
That's you.

676
00:55:13.980 --> 00:55:14.639
That's the tag.

677
00:55:14.699 --> 00:55:16.500
And guess what this episode's now called?

678
00:55:16.559 --> 00:55:19.440
No, I think it has to be the tumbleweed thing.

679
00:55:19.500 --> 00:55:20.519
Sparking.

680
00:55:20.519 --> 00:55:20.880
Yeah.

681
00:55:22.320 --> 00:55:23.940
The bread.

682
00:55:23.940 --> 00:55:25.019
What did you call it?

683
00:55:25.019 --> 00:55:25.800
The bread moment.

684
00:55:25.800 --> 00:55:26.760
The bread moment.

685
00:55:26.820 --> 00:55:27.539
The Brad moment.

686
00:55:27.539 --> 00:55:28.860
The Brad moment.

687
00:55:28.920 --> 00:55:30.360
Brad is short for Bradward.

688
00:55:30.420 --> 00:55:30.780
Okay.

689
00:55:30.780 --> 00:55:31.139
Yeah.

690
00:55:31.199 --> 00:55:32.820
Thank you, Brad.

691
00:55:36.059 --> 00:55:37.320
Alright, sweetheart.

692
00:55:37.320 --> 00:55:38.039
That's a compliment.

693
00:55:38.099 --> 00:55:39.840
Send me the thing.

694
00:55:39.900 --> 00:55:40.500
Send me the thing.

695
00:55:40.559 --> 00:55:41.760
I will send you the thing.

696
00:55:41.820 --> 00:55:43.500
Thank you, old gentlemen.

697
00:55:43.559 --> 00:55:43.920
All right.

698
00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:44.940
Have we done it?

699
00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:45.480
See you later.

700
00:55:45.539 --> 00:55:46.739
Yeah, we did it at the beginning.

701
00:55:46.800 --> 00:55:47.400
Oh, I'm old.

702
00:55:47.639 --> 00:55:48.599
See you all soon.

703
00:55:48.659 --> 00:55:49.019
All right, okay.

704
00:55:49.079 --> 00:55:49.500
See you soon.

705
00:55:49.559 --> 00:55:50.219
Bye bye, darling.

706
00:55:50.280 --> 00:55:50.519
Bye.

707
00:55:50.579 --> 00:55:50.940
Bye bye.