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NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 14:11:10

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flights of Entirety, the

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only Doctor Who podcast still wearing question mark underpants.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd, and I'm a unit lorry reversing into a fishmongers window

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full of squin entrails and horrors for this one.

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And I'm Brendan.

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Well, it was Malcolm Hulk who once said that Earthbound Doctor Who

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could only do 2 stories, Alien Invasion, or Mad Scientist.

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But now more than 40 years later, the show discovers it can do yet

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another new thing.

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Let's see how that turns out in the Zygon invasion.

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So, in a way, I'm kind of sad that Simon's not here, and Peter

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isn't here either, because they really don't like the new series

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icons at all.

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Yeah, because I think that they think that Zygon should be played

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by John Woodnut.

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Which is not a crazy opinion to have, and now we've got Nicholas

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Briggs doing this.

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I love the fact that Zygons in the original series are played by

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the people who they actually transform into.

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Yes, yeah.

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So Sister Lament is the other one who is fabulous too.

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She sadly passed away.

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Only a couple of weeks ago.

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Wow.

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Yeah.

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I'm actually a little bit with Simon and Peter in that I don't

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like the teeth.

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Yes.

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Because, you know...

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Zigons.

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Zigons, they're sort of meant to be squiddy and amorphous and

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everything like that and with the originals.

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I can't readily say for sure, yeah, they definitely had their

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teeth obscure, but it felt to me like they did.

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And adding the teeth kind of makes the horror of the appearance, a

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bit obvious, in my opinion.

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And the other thing which told you sort of touched on there, like

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the actors being inside the suits.

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By this point, big finish have done women voicing zigons.

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And here, the zigons in human female form are male zigons when

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they transform.

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And I just kind of think, no, like give us...

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Give us Jenna Coleman in a Zigon outfit, for God's sake.

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Yes, thank you Yes.

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The other thing I like about the original cycons is that they're a

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little bit translucent, like the rubber is a bit translucent, and

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given how sort of foetal they are, that smooth rubber where I

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think, yeah, we're in hydro. and vulnerable.

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Yes.

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But we're in high def now and so they feel that they have to make

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the costumes more detailed and a bit more interesting.

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But I do think that we lose something there.

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Not necessarily to the detriment of these episodes.

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No, and in fact, what I think is really great about this isn't

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just that it's Doctor Who attempting to do something which is

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about politics and the real world and stuff, which is always good

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is usually good.

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But...

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But it's finding new things to do with the Zygons.

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And do you remember when we did Chibnall's Silurian 2 parter at

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the end of series 5?

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And we're not brave enough in that, even though it's said in the

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future to say, oh, yeah, actually, why not?

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Let's share the planet with the Silurians, and instead we say, oh

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we'd better wait another 1000 years until all the racists die out

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or whatever.

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Here, we've just kind of gone, Actually, from now on, there are

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20000000 cycons on Earth and that's just how Doctor Who is going

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to be.

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And I think that's absolutely incredible.

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Such a great thing.

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I wonder how the Daleks feel about that when they invade.

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Yeah, no, I think it's a great thing.

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I mean, you may all recall that at the end of last series when we

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do the retrospective, I did question what I was going to think of

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this 2 parter because I was really quite undecided about it

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knowing what I how much I'd liked under the lake before the

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flood.

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And, you know, I was really, really surprised at this, well, I

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think both episodes are really strong.

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And, oh, you might be surprised to find out, listeners, and Nathan

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and other OG FTEs, that I like this episode slightly more than the

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2nd one, despite the fact there's fantastic Capaldi.

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Oh, good stuff in that 2nd episode.

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I really, really thoroughly enjoyed the whole setup of this.

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And, you know, 3 Doctors, 2 Osgood's one piece treaty, Truth or

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Consequences, the Osgood Box, and Ingrid Oliver is back.

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Yeah, that setup is done very well, I think.

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Because a big thing has happened that we haven't seen.

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And the normal way of doing that on television would be to have 2

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characters who knew all about it explaining it to one another, as

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you know, Bob.

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But instead, we have that to camera thing with the 2 Osgoods, which

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I think is really terrifically grade.

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And I think also very economically it sells her grief at the loss

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of the other Osgood in Death in Heaven.

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So I just think that's done incredibly well.

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Yeah.

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It also evokes for me a little bit of the Scottish falsetto sock

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puppet theatre.

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Hello, we are the Scottish Falsetto Sock Puppet Theatre, and so am

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I. And so is he.

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But yeah, it's always great to have Ingrid Oliver back.

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And I also really like that in death in heaven, she was a bit less

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whimsical than she was in Day of the Doctor, you know, and there's

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that wonderful moment where the doctor's like, oh, might take you

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on some trips.

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And it was like, well, okay, she's dead.

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But here in this one again, it'll be more developed next week.

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I think it helps make her a more rounded and believable

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character.

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If we still have that comedic element that she had in Day of the

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Doctor, which was fantastic and perfect for the tone there.

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I think she wouldn't work as well here as she does.

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And there's that great bit where they're talking on the plane at

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the end and she very matter of factly states, no, no, you can't

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tell that I'm easily human because X, Y, and Z, and actually that

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was my sister and we both believed in it so much that we have

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given up our identity to it, the peace between humanity and the

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Zygons.

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And I think it's such a wonderful new hook for the character.

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And probably, because I'll be the 1st to jump in, I guess, the

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most overt nod to trans, um, I don't want to say the term

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acceptance, um, absorption of our culture, just trans acceptance

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just trans acknowledgement is the word I'm looking for in this, and

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it's such a lovely, blatant metaphor, just as SF has always done

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with concepts that society appears to be struggling with.

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God knows why.

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And yet, really, really gets it right.

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And it also brings it to the here and now, in a way that Doctor

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Who maybe didn't used to do, and I think has been doing this

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season.

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Like it's hard to know exactly what's happening here.

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I think that what it wants to do is a big kind of thriller episode

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that's a massive event in the way that the 1st alien invasion of

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Earth in 2005 was a huge event, certain terrible people scoff at

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aliens of London, World War III.

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But remember, it was like nothing we'd ever seen before and you

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just never knew where it was going to go.

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It was so huge.

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You know, you had the worldwide media, all of that sort of thing.

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Here we have a sort of similar setup.

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We have a kind of Doctor Who story that we've never ever seen

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before.

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We've never had 20000000 aliens on earth.

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You just made me think it's a 90s virgin.

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It is.

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I to think which one it is.

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Is it a bit blood tidy?

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Well, I don't know, but it has that sort of feel to it. doesn't

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it?

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Like, it's such a huge concept.

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And the show has gone on and never referred to it again, I think

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is that right?

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We've just never, ever mentioned it.

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But it's a huge thing.

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Something massive has happened.

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It reminds me as well, a bit of children of earth, you know, this

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big worldwide event, this big giant alien event.

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And then, in order to sell it, we're doing new things with the

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aliens and those things are the sort of things that we're seeing

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on television at the time.

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And so you have what is kind of a parable about immigration, but

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you know, just done in a different way and using some different

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tropes, you know, because I think particularly it's about Muslims

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isn't it?

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It's like about Muslims in Britain.

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And so you have, you know, young people being radicalised, you

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have a lot of people who just want to get on with their lives and

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you have a sort of potentially horrific response from the powers

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that be.

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And I don't think it's exactly trying to, well, maybe it is trying

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to say something about that.

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But it's certainly using that scale on the sort of news stories

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that we're seeing to tell a story that's sort of vaster and more

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interesting than just a normal alien invasion story.

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Yeah, I think it is using those ideas as a starting and weaving a

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science fiction story around them.

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I don't think it's necessarily saying this is a one for one

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retelling of what is happening in our world, but we're using

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zygons instead.

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And I think that is a mistake that some people make when they're

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reading this, that this is meant to be a one-to-one representation

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of our world.

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It's like, no, it's not.

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It's meant to take an idea that's already happening and see how it

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would apply on what would happen with an alien culture from

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another world, who have this ability to shapeshift.

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It's interesting that this is by the same writer as Kill the Moon

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who tells us that his story was about one thing, but multiple

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readings insist, no, no, it's actually about this other thing that

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you shouldn't be writing about, and it's kind of, it's kind of

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like, it may have a germ of that idea in it, but that doesn't mean

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I was watching recently The Curse of Peladon on DVD, and on the

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DVD commentary, Barry Letts and Terence Dix actually stayed

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outright.

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This was not designed as a parable for joining the common market.

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That was a starting point from which we thought, what would that

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be like in space?

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We're not saying that we're Peladon.

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We're not saying that we're the Galactic Federation in this.

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It's just what would it be like?

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That's the thing.

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Sometimes people read parable as depicting reality.

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And it's like, that's entirely not what parables are.

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I like that it can be about whatever ostracised or marginalised

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subculture that you wish to name.

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I didn't even pick up on the religious aspect.

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I was just thinking gender.

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Yeah you're right.

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Well, I mean, you've got like last season, remember, that there

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had to be some late minute editing done to Robot of Sherwood

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because during the week, there had been an execution video

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released, and then we get that sort of hostage video from Osgood

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flanked by the 2 Zygons and stuff, and that, that thing where you

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were getting extremists putting violent and threatening videos on

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YouTube and them turning up.

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Like, I think that that's the kind of imagery they're going around

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like they are trying to make it now, but, but it's, it's about

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that in the same way, for instance, that the Siderians is about

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immigration or colonialism, where, sometimes the Siderians seem

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like indigenous people who have had their land stolen from them

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but sometimes they seem like immigrants or we seem like immigrants

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or, do you know what I mean?

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Like no one plays any sort of particular role there, but it raises

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the sort of questions that are raised by those ideas.

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And I think here, you know, you've got the idea of immigration

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you've got the idea of a demand that people should assimilate.

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You've got people who are hostile to that whole status quo and are

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trying to do something about it.

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And all of it, all of it sort of rings true because it's kind of

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taken from the headlines, I think.

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People who've been displaced.

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Yeah. and had to be resettled in a strange land and trying to fit

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in.

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One of my biggest takeaways in this episode is the fact that

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besides Ingrid, Oliver is Osgood, Kate Stewart is back and Gemma

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Redgrave actually has something to do. she is off to truth or

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consequences in New Mexico and there she meets a female sheriff.

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We've got her offsider Jack and it's great to see that continuity

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from the 1st episode to hear.

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We've got Colonel Walsh played by Rebecca Front.

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00:14:26.460 --> 00:14:31.860
We've got Hinch Hitchley's mum played by Karen Mann and Hinchley.

245
00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:36.120
But most of the supporting cast are strong women characters.

246
00:14:36.179 --> 00:14:40.799
Yeah, it seems like unit is entirely women now, which including

247
00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:42.840
including Peter Capaldi.

248
00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:44.879
Dr. Disco.

249
00:14:44.940 --> 00:14:48.299
Dr. Funkenstein from Tala Match, that album.

250
00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:51.480
But I just, Rebecca Frant and Malcolm Tucker together in those

251
00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:52.440
things. wonderful.

252
00:14:52.500 --> 00:14:59.159
I'm just waiting for him to tell her to... the eyes and the T. I

253
00:14:59.159 --> 00:15:02.879
just want to see her turn it on him and she kind of does.

254
00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:04.440
It's a great rapprochement.

255
00:15:04.500 --> 00:15:06.299
I think she wins the scene.

256
00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:08.340
Like, I think that she's absolutely in charge.

257
00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:11.399
And when she says that thing, it's not paranoia, if it could

258
00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:12.120
actually happen.

259
00:15:12.179 --> 00:15:13.500
Yeah, exactly, it's real.

260
00:15:13.620 --> 00:15:15.059
That's pretty great.

261
00:15:15.419 --> 00:15:20.399
It's actually great seeing her play a serious character.

262
00:15:20.460 --> 00:15:23.340
Like, I've seen her do a lot of comedy in a lot of different

263
00:15:23.340 --> 00:15:23.700
things.

264
00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:26.580
And I just love the fact that she's in this.

265
00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:30.779
I always think great comedic people make wonderful dramatic

266
00:15:30.779 --> 00:15:31.320
actors.

267
00:15:37.379 --> 00:15:40.740
So we have them split up sort of quite early on in the episode.

268
00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:42.720
So we have this sort of fairly straightforward thing where it's

269
00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:45.720
established that it's all falling down. and we find out that

270
00:15:45.720 --> 00:15:49.500
Ingrid, Oliver's character has been kidnapped, what, by the by the

271
00:15:49.500 --> 00:15:50.279
opening credits?

272
00:15:50.340 --> 00:15:52.379
That's the end of the opening credits.

273
00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:54.120
And then the plot splits up.

274
00:15:54.179 --> 00:16:00.179
And so we have Kate, we send Kate to truth or consequences, and we

275
00:16:00.179 --> 00:16:04.320
leave Jack, and we think it's, what's her name?

276
00:16:04.379 --> 00:16:05.039
Jesus Christ.

277
00:16:05.100 --> 00:16:07.019
We think it's Clara.

278
00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:08.159
And we think it's Clara.

279
00:16:08.519 --> 00:16:09.600
But it's actually Bonnie.

280
00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:10.559
Bonnie Bless.

281
00:16:10.620 --> 00:16:15.539
And then we send the doctor to made up a stand, which will occur

282
00:16:15.539 --> 00:16:18.720
again, I think, in the pyramid at the end of the world.

283
00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:20.340
So it's another place.

284
00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:23.820
I do get irritated by made up a stand.

285
00:16:23.879 --> 00:16:25.919
I do get I do too.

286
00:16:25.980 --> 00:16:30.840
I actually like Dr. Who set in real cases, like, you know, like, I

287
00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:33.360
mean, it's a fake show, as you all know, but I just like it when

288
00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:37.620
it's real and not making up funny abcois, cola sort of things in

289
00:16:37.620 --> 00:16:38.639
our real world.

290
00:16:38.700 --> 00:16:40.379
Yeah, I think that too.

291
00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:43.620
I'm not quite sure what it is, and I guess that they want to avoid

292
00:16:43.620 --> 00:16:46.379
being too obvious.

293
00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:50.039
Like they can't set it somewhere, you know, they can't set it.

294
00:16:50.100 --> 00:16:50.820
What is it?

295
00:16:50.879 --> 00:16:53.580
Is it cross between Turkey and Uzbekistan or something?

296
00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:56.700
Without sort of coming under some sort of fire saying, well, you're

297
00:16:56.700 --> 00:16:58.320
planning our country like such and such.

298
00:16:58.379 --> 00:17:00.299
Yeah, okay. get it.

299
00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:03.299
It's Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan.

300
00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:08.099
It's a portmanteau of the 2 and the geography roughly matches.

301
00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:09.180
You know.

302
00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:14.279
Yeah, because we see the flight path of boat one, the doctor's

303
00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:16.140
plane, heading back to London.

304
00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:18.299
He likes ponting about a fancy plane, yeah.

305
00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:19.920
That's so funny.

306
00:17:19.980 --> 00:17:22.859
And then when you cut Tim Ponting about, it's so much fun. so

307
00:17:22.859 --> 00:17:23.099
great.

308
00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:27.059
Something I did notice about our jet setting locations, and of

309
00:17:27.059 --> 00:17:32.220
course, you know, we go off, we go off to Termezistan, witches

310
00:17:32.220 --> 00:17:32.700
whales.

311
00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:34.559
We go.

312
00:17:34.619 --> 00:17:38.339
We go down in the tunnel, which is the Barry Island tunnel from

313
00:17:38.339 --> 00:17:44.640
flatline again, and we go to truth or consequences, which is the

314
00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:45.359
Canary Islands.

315
00:17:45.420 --> 00:17:47.460
Oh, I thought it was Spain.

316
00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:48.720
Well, I suppose, yeah.

317
00:17:48.779 --> 00:17:49.500
Canary Islands.

318
00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:49.799
Yeah.

319
00:17:49.859 --> 00:17:52.380
Yeah, but yeah, it's it's it's the Canary Islands.

320
00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:54.180
So, uh, yeah.

321
00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:57.960
Gemma Redgrave gets to go on the international junket this year.

322
00:17:58.259 --> 00:18:00.960
Yeah, she's the only one who gets to go there.

323
00:18:01.559 --> 00:18:03.000
Right.

324
00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:04.259
I did true.

325
00:18:05.700 --> 00:18:08.519
They must have had to lure her back.

326
00:18:08.579 --> 00:18:13.740
But I think they realise all those locations well, you know?

327
00:18:13.799 --> 00:18:14.519
Yeah.

328
00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:15.539
Yes, totally.

329
00:18:15.539 --> 00:18:19.680
Whether it be New Mexico, which with the tumbleweeds and all that

330
00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:20.160
sort of stuff.

331
00:18:21.420 --> 00:18:24.960
I just remember the moment, the 1st time watching it where I

332
00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:28.859
realised those dumb tumbleweeds were clearly dead bodies of people

333
00:18:28.859 --> 00:18:31.019
who've been zapped by Zygons.

334
00:18:31.019 --> 00:18:32.759
It's actually clever.

335
00:18:32.819 --> 00:18:36.359
Yeah, yeah, yeah. where you kind of think, oh, come on, tumbleweeds

336
00:18:36.359 --> 00:18:37.500
you've got to be kidding me.

337
00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:40.680
And that 1st one looks like it is being dragged across the shot by

338
00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:42.359
the end of a fishing wire.

339
00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:46.559
But it's clever when you realise that it's another one of those

340
00:18:46.559 --> 00:18:50.460
sort of electrified pubic merkins that is what everyone turns

341
00:18:50.460 --> 00:18:50.819
into.

342
00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:53.160
And there's the episode.

343
00:18:56.279 --> 00:19:00.660
Something I really appreciated about the locations is, now, um

344
00:19:00.660 --> 00:19:03.900
truth or consequences, New Mexico, it's given the typical orange

345
00:19:03.900 --> 00:19:06.960
grade that you get with Mexico or New Mexico.

346
00:19:07.019 --> 00:19:12.059
However, Termenistan is given a blue grade, which is usually

347
00:19:12.059 --> 00:19:16.920
reserved for English speaking countries in English speaking film

348
00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:21.960
and TV, and usually Afghanistan and other countries in the region

349
00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:25.799
are given a harsh orange or yellow grade.

350
00:19:25.859 --> 00:19:26.819
But here...

351
00:19:26.819 --> 00:19:28.799
Like you saw last year in Doctor Who itself.

352
00:19:28.859 --> 00:19:29.640
Yeah.

353
00:19:29.700 --> 00:19:33.480
But here, you know, the area around the church and the village

354
00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:38.099
it's lush, it's the blue sky is blue and the grass is very green.

355
00:19:38.220 --> 00:19:41.640
It's actually given a similar grade to the Scottish village in

356
00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:42.839
before the flood.

357
00:19:42.900 --> 00:19:47.640
It's kind of weird in that it's breaking a trope, but at the same

358
00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:50.039
time, I think that's designed to unnervous.

359
00:19:50.099 --> 00:19:54.119
We've been consuming this media set in this part of the world, but

360
00:19:54.119 --> 00:19:59.220
made by studios from America, the UK, et cetera.

361
00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:03.960
And we're used to seeing it with this red, orange, yellow grade.

362
00:20:04.019 --> 00:20:09.180
So we get something else, which I think is immediately unsettling

363
00:20:09.180 --> 00:20:12.539
even though it's actually probably far more normal for that area

364
00:20:12.539 --> 00:20:13.259
of the world.

365
00:20:14.099 --> 00:20:16.500
I have written down in my notes.

366
00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:20.039
Great visuals of the village and New Mexico.

367
00:20:20.099 --> 00:20:23.339
So although I didn't necessarily pick up on that, I did think it

368
00:20:23.339 --> 00:20:25.319
was utterly beautiful and stunning.

369
00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:26.759
It's funny, isn't it?

370
00:20:26.819 --> 00:20:31.740
There's a sign which seems to be using a language in Roman letters

371
00:20:31.740 --> 00:20:34.500
on the outside of the approach of the village.

372
00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:37.500
So we see the establishing shot then where nearer in.

373
00:20:37.500 --> 00:20:42.119
And that's been defaced with whatever, because there's a special

374
00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:42.960
kind of writing.

375
00:20:43.079 --> 00:20:45.720
I think the Zygons use as well as their symbol.

376
00:20:46.619 --> 00:20:48.599
The white hand.

377
00:20:48.660 --> 00:20:49.680
I wonder where they got that from.

378
00:20:49.740 --> 00:20:52.740
Yeah, so it's got the it's got the hand, doesn't it?

379
00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:56.339
But it's like 3 fingered hand because the zycons here have 3

380
00:20:56.339 --> 00:20:59.039
fingers, which I don't think they do in the classic era.

381
00:20:59.099 --> 00:21:00.240
No, they don't.

382
00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:00.960
Yeah.

383
00:21:01.019 --> 00:21:05.160
And a big Logan's run whole in the middle of it, were they?

384
00:21:05.220 --> 00:21:05.880
Yeah, yeah.

385
00:21:06.420 --> 00:21:11.819
And we do also get the doctor titivating the Zygon's controls

386
00:21:11.819 --> 00:21:16.319
again, just as he did in 1974, isn't it?

387
00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:19.140
Yeah, do I need to leave you 2 alone or something or are you

388
00:21:19.140 --> 00:21:19.740
enjoying that?

389
00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:22.740
And that was actually a properly revolting thing.

390
00:21:22.740 --> 00:21:25.680
And we didn't get quite as much of that in the day of the doctor

391
00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:32.039
but there is a lot of that same lighting, the green and red

392
00:21:32.039 --> 00:21:37.259
lighting that we had that Dougie Farmfield did in 17 years.

393
00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:38.339
Or was it 1980?

394
00:21:38.759 --> 00:21:40.920
They do it so perfectly, don't they?

395
00:21:40.980 --> 00:21:44.819
She just says, there was an earlier icon invasion in the 70s, 80s

396
00:21:44.819 --> 00:21:46.019
and she just throws it away.

397
00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:47.039
It's so brilliant.

398
00:21:54.180 --> 00:21:56.880
I've met Daniel Netheim.

399
00:21:56.940 --> 00:21:59.640
We all have, I think, or many of us have.

400
00:21:59.700 --> 00:22:06.960
So Daniel Netheim came to the big sort of day in Sydney...

401
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:08.160
The 50th anniversary...

402
00:22:08.279 --> 00:22:11.039
Yeah for the anniversary and so we had Capoldi and we had

403
00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:14.579
Sylvester and we had Ingrid Oliver, you think?

404
00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:16.079
And Stephen Moffat, I think.

405
00:22:16.140 --> 00:22:16.799
Yeah.

406
00:22:17.220 --> 00:22:22.200
And it was the day that we met Stephen B, friend of the podcast

407
00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:25.319
Stephen B, and Daniel Netheim was there.

408
00:22:25.380 --> 00:22:30.359
And I kind of knew of him because his son went to my school.

409
00:22:30.420 --> 00:22:36.599
So I had had that link and he was the one who told Stephen Moffat

410
00:22:36.599 --> 00:22:39.420
about my school's Doctor Who club.

411
00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:44.220
But we had him actually come to the Doctor Who Club at school

412
00:22:44.220 --> 00:22:48.180
Daniel Netheim, and he brought some props as well, and they were

413
00:22:48.180 --> 00:22:50.339
sort of goopy Zigony things.

414
00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:54.480
So that the smoke bomb, for instance, that lands in the playground

415
00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:58.619
I think, looks, again, sort of revoltingly organic.

416
00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:03.539
And then there's that disgusting thing that Kate Stewart's

417
00:23:03.539 --> 00:23:06.599
speaking into in the final scene where she's using a Zigon

418
00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:10.680
communicator and it has something very gross sticking out of the

419
00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:11.160
end of it.

420
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:13.680
Like, I think they do a good job.

421
00:23:15.299 --> 00:23:19.559
Most of the grossness of that thing seem to be Tom's performance.

422
00:23:19.619 --> 00:23:23.099
Like Tom decided that he had to stroke the fleshy things.

423
00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:25.680
It got very squelchy time, didn't.

424
00:23:25.740 --> 00:23:29.160
John Woodenhart and Sister Lamont gave their fair share of sort of

425
00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:31.140
stroking the things as well.

426
00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:35.039
But here it's explicit in the script.

427
00:23:35.099 --> 00:23:39.779
And the other thing that I remember very well is an interview with

428
00:23:39.779 --> 00:23:45.240
Peter Harness done by El Sandafar, in which Peter Harness said

429
00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:50.819
that he listened to the soundtrack for Terror of the Zygons all

430
00:23:50.819 --> 00:23:53.400
the way through while he was writing the script, which I thought

431
00:23:53.400 --> 00:23:54.299
was a pretty great detail.

432
00:23:55.019 --> 00:24:01.980
So is that why we get nerve gas developed by a naval officer in

433
00:24:01.980 --> 00:24:02.940
the 1970s?

434
00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:04.380
I'm very cross about that.

435
00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:06.480
Are you, Brendan, who would never do that.

436
00:24:06.539 --> 00:24:08.579
Or criminal Harry Sullivan.

437
00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:09.779
Yeah, would do that.

438
00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:11.039
He wouldn't do that.

439
00:24:11.099 --> 00:24:15.240
Yeah, I mean, maybe you can head cannon as he, you know, he was

440
00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:18.000
trying to develop a better aspirin and accidentally created a

441
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:18.660
nerve gas.

442
00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:21.539
But it's also the fact that they're like, oh, yeah, we took some

443
00:24:21.539 --> 00:24:23.460
of the Zygons in and created this.

444
00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:26.579
It's like, oh, so he was also Mengela.

445
00:24:26.700 --> 00:24:28.380
Yeah, yeah.

446
00:24:28.440 --> 00:24:30.299
It's not very well thought through, is it?

447
00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:31.319
That is...

448
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:33.720
Why, you know, why is this an heroic moment?

449
00:24:34.259 --> 00:24:35.700
Yeah.

450
00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:41.339
But, I mean, we need, so it's called Z 76, I want to say, or 67, Z

451
00:24:41.339 --> 00:24:41.940
67.

452
00:24:42.180 --> 00:24:46.319
And I think we need it for next episode.

453
00:24:46.440 --> 00:24:53.880
But I really hate the idea that it was given to Harry to make.

454
00:24:53.940 --> 00:24:56.519
And he'd been kidnapped by the Zygons and all of that sort of

455
00:24:56.519 --> 00:25:00.240
thing, but that doesn't stop him being an immensely cuddly and

456
00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:04.559
loveable person and not the sort of person who would experiment on

457
00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:06.900
people in order to turn them inside out.

458
00:25:07.019 --> 00:25:13.380
It doesn't tally with the bumbling, loveable macintosh, straddled

459
00:25:13.380 --> 00:25:17.279
chap that we know and love. he was meant to be a bit of a bulldog

460
00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:21.000
drummond, so not to not too flaring on the upper brain

461
00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:22.500
capacities.

462
00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:25.140
So I'm not really sure where they're coming from with research

463
00:25:25.140 --> 00:25:25.559
scientists.

464
00:25:25.619 --> 00:25:27.539
I think that that was probably a mistake.

465
00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:33.000
Harry will get another mention next season, and it's a much

466
00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:33.839
happier mention.

467
00:25:33.900 --> 00:25:38.039
So maybe Stephen Moffatt's trying to make up for it.

468
00:25:38.099 --> 00:25:40.740
It is kind of creepy though, isn't it?

469
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:42.779
Yeah, it's just weird.

470
00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:48.660
And it's also weird to me, just from a digetic point of view, that

471
00:25:48.660 --> 00:25:50.099
Kate would tell Clara.

472
00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:54.420
Yeah, well, like, okay, she's the doctor's companion.

473
00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:55.440
Fine.

474
00:25:55.500 --> 00:26:00.180
But you're still heading up a supposedly top secret military

475
00:26:00.180 --> 00:26:00.779
organisation.

476
00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:04.500
It's like, generally your security's better than torchwood, but

477
00:26:04.500 --> 00:26:05.099
not this time.

478
00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:09.720
Yeah, but, you know, like the brigadier tells Sarah all about the

479
00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:12.240
disintegrated gun one day because he's bored.

480
00:26:12.299 --> 00:26:13.380
Do you know what I mean?

481
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:15.779
It's not like there's no precedent for this.

482
00:26:30.839 --> 00:26:34.859
Can I mention a part I didn't particularly like this time around?

483
00:26:34.920 --> 00:26:35.700
Oh, yeah.

484
00:26:35.880 --> 00:26:39.059
It's the soldiers being lured into the church.

485
00:26:39.119 --> 00:26:40.559
Oh, okay.

486
00:26:40.619 --> 00:26:41.700
Here's the thing.

487
00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:43.319
I like the concept.

488
00:26:43.559 --> 00:26:48.599
And I want to give a shout out to the actress playing the

489
00:26:48.599 --> 00:26:49.259
soldier's mother.

490
00:26:49.319 --> 00:26:53.579
I think she delivers a very good performance and there's the whole

491
00:26:53.579 --> 00:26:54.900
range of emotion in there.

492
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:58.140
And I think the soldier, I think her name is.

493
00:26:58.200 --> 00:26:59.940
I always questioned.

494
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:02.579
I always questions whether that was actually a real American

495
00:27:02.579 --> 00:27:06.119
accent or whether she's just, I'd love to know if it's actually

496
00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:06.900
her real accent.

497
00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:09.539
But anyway, it's interesting you're bringing this up because the

498
00:27:09.539 --> 00:27:11.460
1st time I watched it, I always thought, oh, they're not going to

499
00:27:11.460 --> 00:27:11.880
fall for that.

500
00:27:11.940 --> 00:27:13.019
Like, but continue.

501
00:27:13.079 --> 00:27:13.619
Yeah.

502
00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:19.980
Well, my whole thing is, I think it's unbelievable that all 7 or 8

503
00:27:19.980 --> 00:27:21.299
of them go inside.

504
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:22.259
That's right.

505
00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:27.000
So if it were a smaller team, if they're like, no, no, we're just

506
00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:29.819
taking in bare minimum, minimising loss of life, et cetera.

507
00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:31.980
So if it were like 2 or 3 people, I'd buy it.

508
00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:35.819
If 2 or 3 of them go in and the rest fall back, I'd buy it.

509
00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:41.700
But I think they just over egg it. with 6 or 7 of them going in.

510
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:45.599
You know, because they can only really have the 2 speaking parts.

511
00:27:45.660 --> 00:27:50.220
And so you see that happening to one person and then the whole

512
00:27:50.220 --> 00:27:53.759
rest are sort of told in this shorthand by various other people

513
00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:57.119
clearly unrelated to that soldier coming out as well.

514
00:27:57.180 --> 00:28:01.079
But yes, they all just sort of tromp in their like massive

515
00:28:01.079 --> 00:28:02.160
morons.

516
00:28:02.220 --> 00:28:06.779
And like it is, I think enough is said between those 2 main

517
00:28:06.779 --> 00:28:09.900
characters in it that I buy him going in.

518
00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:11.579
Yeah, totally.

519
00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:12.420
But the rest of them.

520
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:15.839
Yeah, I think, yeah, now that you've brought it up, I totally

521
00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:16.319
agree.

522
00:28:16.380 --> 00:28:18.359
Like, I don't think all of them would have gone.

523
00:28:18.420 --> 00:28:18.660
No.

524
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:22.319
And it is, they all just kind of traipse in after him, you know

525
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:23.759
without saying anything to anyone.

526
00:28:23.819 --> 00:28:25.440
It's all a little bit sort of grummy.

527
00:28:25.500 --> 00:28:29.279
I do think the scene with the drone controller with Lisa.

528
00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:33.720
Again, is not overdone as well.

529
00:28:33.779 --> 00:28:37.799
Like, you'd have to be in another room altogether to not pick up

530
00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:38.819
what was being said.

531
00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:43.079
It wasn't sort of super subtle or anything, but just relying on

532
00:28:43.079 --> 00:28:46.079
the visuals to tell you rather than the dialogue is kind of

533
00:28:46.079 --> 00:28:46.680
refreshing.

534
00:28:46.740 --> 00:28:48.660
And I thought that that worked really well.

535
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:51.000
And we get an explanation of it later.

536
00:28:51.059 --> 00:28:57.359
We get the idea that a Zygon can take a loved one from your memory

537
00:28:57.359 --> 00:29:03.779
and recreate them because we know very clearly what the rules are

538
00:29:03.779 --> 00:29:08.819
for zygons and they're established in terror of the zygons to give

539
00:29:08.819 --> 00:29:12.059
the zygons a reason for not killing the duke.

540
00:29:12.119 --> 00:29:16.380
You know, they have to keep the duke alive, not just to keep the

541
00:29:16.380 --> 00:29:18.119
patent alive, or, well, that's what they say.

542
00:29:18.180 --> 00:29:20.220
They have to renew the pattern or something like that.

543
00:29:20.279 --> 00:29:23.640
And it looks like now there's been some kind of technological

544
00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:28.380
advancement and now they only need to keep the link in order to

545
00:29:28.380 --> 00:29:33.720
get new information from the person or if they revert back, then

546
00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:37.980
they have to have access to the living person to change again.

547
00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:39.599
So all of that.

548
00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:44.579
Like, it does the right thing by acknowledging that the rules have

549
00:29:44.579 --> 00:29:49.259
changed by making the doctor say what the rules were originally in

550
00:29:49.259 --> 00:29:51.960
that conversation with Oscar, where he says you have to be.

551
00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:54.539
Because I think we were saying that, weren't we?

552
00:29:54.599 --> 00:29:57.660
I'm sure we were saying like they have to keep the original has to

553
00:29:57.660 --> 00:30:01.200
be kept alive, so Osgood has to be like the human.

554
00:30:01.259 --> 00:30:04.140
Yes, because otherwise the pattern would have reverted.

555
00:30:04.200 --> 00:30:04.740
That's right.

556
00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:07.500
But look, yeah, so they have to explain that away.

557
00:30:07.559 --> 00:30:11.700
But I do, I do miss the, like, the little cubicle things that, you

558
00:30:11.700 --> 00:30:14.220
know, they put their hands in in the little shield that comes

559
00:30:14.220 --> 00:30:14.460
out.

560
00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:17.339
But I guess that was in the spaceship rather than like the pod

561
00:30:17.339 --> 00:30:18.720
version that are transportable.

562
00:30:18.779 --> 00:30:19.740
You know what I mean?

563
00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:22.980
The transportable pods just look like giant zygon heads, don't

564
00:30:22.980 --> 00:30:23.160
they?

565
00:30:23.220 --> 00:30:25.740
Like they've even got rows of suckers up the thing.

566
00:30:26.220 --> 00:30:28.140
I beg your pardon?

567
00:30:32.099 --> 00:30:37.079
Organic Christallography stays. crystalography.

568
00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:45.119
Did you, on 1st watching, or even this time through, did you

569
00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:48.599
always buy that, did you always suspect that Clara wasn't Clara?

570
00:30:48.660 --> 00:30:50.940
Like, I think it's actually done quite well.

571
00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:53.519
I mean, you kind of think there's something off about the house

572
00:30:53.519 --> 00:30:57.180
and the apartment that she goes into with the little boy and the

573
00:30:57.180 --> 00:31:00.359
parents are strange and then now when she comes out and she does

574
00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:03.599
the whole putting a hair in the ponytail as Bonnie.

575
00:31:03.660 --> 00:31:07.319
Like it's now obvious, but I actually think it's done in a good

576
00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:08.519
enough way that you can have doubts.

577
00:31:08.579 --> 00:31:09.359
Do you know what I mean?

578
00:31:09.420 --> 00:31:11.819
So I haven't gone back.

579
00:31:11.880 --> 00:31:14.099
I think I've said this before, that this is the season of Doctor

580
00:31:14.099 --> 00:31:15.359
Who that I know the least.

581
00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:20.160
There are some black and white ones maybe, but like this is the

582
00:31:20.160 --> 00:31:23.519
one that I've not gone back and watched very often.

583
00:31:23.579 --> 00:31:28.319
And so when I saw her appear for the 1st time, she's got like much

584
00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:33.539
red lipstick and a much more, like more foundation on or something

585
00:31:33.539 --> 00:31:35.339
something about her look that is different.

586
00:31:35.339 --> 00:31:39.180
And we get the Clara theme, but it's not the normal Clara theme

587
00:31:39.180 --> 00:31:40.859
it's arranged a slightly different way.

588
00:31:40.859 --> 00:31:45.420
And I wondered whether maybe she was already Bonnie at that

589
00:31:45.420 --> 00:31:45.720
point.

590
00:31:45.779 --> 00:31:49.500
I thought the calamari loop earrings were indexed.

591
00:31:49.619 --> 00:31:51.059
That's right.

592
00:31:51.059 --> 00:31:52.799
That's it.

593
00:32:03.660 --> 00:32:07.380
But, Nathan, you are quite right, because she has the red lipstick

594
00:32:07.380 --> 00:32:11.759
and there's a whole slightly different look, and I think Jenna

595
00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:15.599
actually plays it really well, especially when poor Jack at the

596
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:18.839
end comes to the horrible realisation that it's a trap and they're

597
00:32:18.839 --> 00:32:23.400
all going to be killed and just Jenna's look, and I'm going into

598
00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:26.039
the next episode, I really think she does a great job of

599
00:32:26.039 --> 00:32:29.640
distinguishing between Bonnie and Clara.

600
00:32:29.700 --> 00:32:33.119
No wonder she had to have last week off because she's got she's

601
00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:36.180
got drinks so much heavy hitting in these episodes and all the

602
00:32:36.180 --> 00:32:37.500
subtle stuff that she's doing.

603
00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:41.640
I think she absolutely again proves to me why she is such a great

604
00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:42.359
actress.

605
00:32:42.420 --> 00:32:45.599
Do you know, I think Jack is really great in that scene as well

606
00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:48.299
because again, we don't know.

607
00:32:48.359 --> 00:32:51.960
The thing that we don't know is we know what the rules are for the

608
00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:52.980
zygons, right?

609
00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:58.019
But we don't know whether the news story is going to stuff that up

610
00:32:58.019 --> 00:33:01.859
inadvertently because they're just being careless with

611
00:33:01.859 --> 00:33:02.579
continuity.

612
00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:08.039
And so when Jack says they're growing duplicates of us.

613
00:33:08.099 --> 00:33:12.240
We actually aren't in a position as viewers to know whether that's

614
00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:13.319
true or not.

615
00:33:13.380 --> 00:33:18.000
And so when Jack comes in and says no, Zygons don't work like

616
00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:18.359
that.

617
00:33:18.420 --> 00:33:21.539
That's kind of what we've been thinking as well.

618
00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:24.660
Zygons don't grow duplicates.

619
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:26.880
They turn into duplicates of you.

620
00:33:26.940 --> 00:33:28.380
That's not how it works.

621
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:29.700
And of course, she's right.

622
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:30.900
She's absolutely right.

623
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:34.380
And that's the moment where Bonnie reveals herself because she's

624
00:33:34.380 --> 00:33:35.039
been sprung.

625
00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:36.839
I think Jack is really great.

626
00:33:36.900 --> 00:33:38.880
I mean, she was always great.

627
00:33:38.940 --> 00:33:41.400
I love Drin Bugs back in the 90s.

628
00:33:41.460 --> 00:33:41.880
Oh, okay.

629
00:33:41.940 --> 00:33:43.319
Oh yeah, of course.

630
00:33:43.380 --> 00:33:45.240
But yeah, I've always liked her as an actress.

631
00:33:45.299 --> 00:33:47.579
So when she popped up in episode one.

632
00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:50.039
I kind of thought, this is interesting casting somebody who is

633
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:52.619
people would be familiar with of certain age.

634
00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:55.500
Like, she's just in this one episode.

635
00:33:55.619 --> 00:33:58.440
So bringing her back in here and having her play such an important

636
00:33:58.440 --> 00:34:01.380
role up, you know, in this episode, I think was brilliant.

637
00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:08.099
Something subtle, I think they do to help you not realise that

638
00:34:08.099 --> 00:34:12.659
Clara has been replaced is just before Clara goes into the flat.

639
00:34:12.719 --> 00:34:16.199
She hears the voice message from Dr. Disco, but then she hangs up

640
00:34:16.199 --> 00:34:18.719
to talk to the kid.

641
00:34:18.780 --> 00:34:21.780
And then after she comes out of the flat, She calls the doctor and

642
00:34:21.780 --> 00:34:23.699
says, did you just call yourself Dr. Disco?

643
00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:28.440
So she's continuing the conversation that the real Clara was

644
00:34:28.440 --> 00:34:28.679
having.

645
00:34:28.920 --> 00:34:31.500
I think they cheat, though.

646
00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:35.820
I think that Daniel Nedheim does cheat because the reprise version

647
00:34:35.820 --> 00:34:41.760
is slightly different from what we actually saw on screen, but I

648
00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:45.420
do like that it happens as Jack is being killed.

649
00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:49.739
So that's explaining how come what we've seen happen has

650
00:34:49.739 --> 00:34:50.099
happened.

651
00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:53.699
We don't get to see it until after Bonnie swings into action and

652
00:34:53.699 --> 00:34:55.139
has Jack killed.

653
00:34:55.260 --> 00:35:00.000
Remember we see it the 1st time, but then we see a revised version

654
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:04.559
of it where we actually see the Zygon version.

655
00:35:04.619 --> 00:35:05.579
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

656
00:35:05.639 --> 00:35:07.800
And so we actually see what really happened.

657
00:35:07.860 --> 00:35:12.179
So we get to see a sort of slightly faked version of it 1st

658
00:35:12.179 --> 00:35:15.599
earlier on in the episode, but we only see what really happened

659
00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:17.400
after Bonnie's unmasked.

660
00:35:17.699 --> 00:35:19.139
Right.

661
00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:23.880
Did anybody else notice that Clara is getting in on the Dr. Cosplay

662
00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:27.480
game with Osgood in that she's got this flowing black coat and a

663
00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:28.199
frilly white shirt?

664
00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:31.440
Oh, and the red lipstick.

665
00:35:31.500 --> 00:35:33.239
And the red lipstick.

666
00:35:33.239 --> 00:35:35.219
Off John Pertwheat. right.

667
00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:36.719
Too much Foundation.

668
00:35:36.780 --> 00:35:37.860
It all clicks.

669
00:35:39.539 --> 00:35:43.860
But it does have a sort of poetry sort of vibe to it, doesn't it?

670
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:45.719
It has an ambassadors of death kind of thing.

671
00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:53.280
But it is deciding to do something on a massive scale, which I

672
00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:54.539
think really works.

673
00:35:54.539 --> 00:35:56.519
And they managed to pull it off.

674
00:35:56.579 --> 00:35:58.679
They, you know, within their budget.

675
00:35:58.739 --> 00:36:02.639
There's a lot of speaking parts in this episode, like quite a lot

676
00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:07.559
many more than normal, but they use the money to really sell that

677
00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:10.380
we're in sort of several places at once.

678
00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:16.199
What do we think of the British invasion of truth or

679
00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:17.340
consequences?

680
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:20.159
Well, we all know monsters speak with RP, don't we?

681
00:36:20.219 --> 00:36:21.300
Well, I think that's it.

682
00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:26.280
Do you remember Donny Arana deciding that the Santarans and the

683
00:36:26.280 --> 00:36:27.960
Shockeye must be English?

684
00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:29.159
You are English?

685
00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:30.960
When she hears them speaking.

686
00:36:31.019 --> 00:36:33.119
So that's what I'm assuming has happened.

687
00:36:33.179 --> 00:36:34.679
But remember that we are told that...

688
00:36:34.679 --> 00:36:35.880
She was also going on their appearance.

689
00:36:37.619 --> 00:36:42.119
We were told that they were mostly kind of moving to Britain.

690
00:36:42.179 --> 00:36:49.559
I'm just not quite sure what the truth or consequences bit is

691
00:36:49.559 --> 00:36:53.940
actually doing there beyond giving Kate something to do.

692
00:36:54.659 --> 00:36:57.539
Well, obviously we need to get her out of the way.

693
00:36:57.599 --> 00:37:02.579
We need to make it appear that she's actually being compromised

694
00:37:02.579 --> 00:37:04.380
but she's going to come in and save the day.

695
00:37:04.440 --> 00:37:05.280
Yeah.

696
00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:08.519
And if we had her back in Britain, then she could potentially be

697
00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:08.880
killed.

698
00:37:08.940 --> 00:37:09.900
Do you know what I mean?

699
00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:12.539
Like, so it's basically to save the character.

700
00:37:12.599 --> 00:37:15.480
Yeah. some colour and movement.

701
00:37:15.539 --> 00:37:17.880
There's that electric tumbleweed again.

702
00:37:17.940 --> 00:37:20.820
Yeah, we've got a 2 and we've got another 2 parter.

703
00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:25.920
So we have to actually have we've got space in the story, you

704
00:37:25.920 --> 00:37:26.219
know?

705
00:37:26.280 --> 00:37:29.519
I'm just kind of kind of exactly wondering what's going on there

706
00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:33.300
because essentially it's like an event, a big thing happens.

707
00:37:33.360 --> 00:37:36.300
We learn all about the history of this town, but it's essentially

708
00:37:36.300 --> 00:37:42.059
given to us by one character who just narrates it. and then is

709
00:37:42.059 --> 00:37:43.980
there to menace her for the cliffhanger.

710
00:37:44.039 --> 00:37:48.900
So, like, if I had one criticism, it would be that perhaps that

711
00:37:48.900 --> 00:37:54.539
was a bigger thread that had been cut down to the point where

712
00:37:54.539 --> 00:37:57.539
you're wondering whether it actually contributes anything very

713
00:37:57.539 --> 00:37:58.920
much to what's going on.

714
00:37:58.980 --> 00:38:01.920
Because we start in truth or consequences, don't we?

715
00:38:01.980 --> 00:38:04.199
That's where Osgood's kidnapped from.

716
00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:05.519
Yes.

717
00:38:05.579 --> 00:38:06.000
Yeah.

718
00:38:06.059 --> 00:38:06.539
Yes.

719
00:38:06.599 --> 00:38:10.800
But otherwise it's not entirely certain what that's doing there.

720
00:38:10.860 --> 00:38:14.820
And there's, there is that great moment, I think, where the scary

721
00:38:14.820 --> 00:38:19.199
sheriff who we just assume is racist because she's white and it's

722
00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:19.920
New Mexico.

723
00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:25.380
And so when she actually starts to express sympathy for the

724
00:38:25.380 --> 00:38:31.019
child's icon that didn't really know how to retain its body print

725
00:38:31.019 --> 00:38:34.559
and then everyone in the town reacts badly to that and that's

726
00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:38.280
where things start to really properly escalate.

727
00:38:38.340 --> 00:38:40.679
Like, I think that's quite good.

728
00:38:40.739 --> 00:38:43.500
And I think the cliffhanger is pretty good.

729
00:38:43.619 --> 00:38:46.559
So we've got a triple cliffhanger.

730
00:38:46.619 --> 00:38:47.699
Yes, yeah.

731
00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:49.619
So, yeah, tying back to aliens of London again.

732
00:38:49.679 --> 00:38:50.400
Yeah, yeah.

733
00:38:50.460 --> 00:38:52.800
We've got Kate and the Zigon.

734
00:38:52.860 --> 00:38:53.340
Yep.

735
00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:56.820
We've got Bonnie on the coast with the bazooka.

736
00:38:56.880 --> 00:39:02.579
Yep. launching at the doctor in the plane. and we get someone who

737
00:39:02.579 --> 00:39:07.559
we think is probably a Zygon calling Bonnie up.

738
00:39:07.619 --> 00:39:11.699
So Kate is calling Bonnie up on the Zygon communicator.

739
00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:12.360
Yeah.

740
00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:13.019
Okay.

741
00:39:13.079 --> 00:39:16.079
So we think she's been taken over by the Zygons.

742
00:39:16.139 --> 00:39:20.280
And it's another slight cheat from Netheim, I think, because next

743
00:39:20.280 --> 00:39:23.039
week's reprise isn't exactly what we see on screen.

744
00:39:23.099 --> 00:39:29.579
Bonnie shoots the bazooka and then we hear an offscreen explosion

745
00:39:29.579 --> 00:39:33.420
of some kind, but it's not exactly clear what's going on and

746
00:39:33.420 --> 00:39:35.820
that's made clear at the beginning of the next episode.

747
00:39:36.239 --> 00:39:38.699
There's a lot going on in this episode.

748
00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:42.239
I mean, even the talk of the hybrids brought back into it, you

749
00:39:42.239 --> 00:39:45.300
know, with Osgood humans are gone by the doctor.

750
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:48.360
Yeah. to keep that bit of a thread going.

751
00:39:48.420 --> 00:39:53.099
It really is so perfunctory that I don't even know where it ends

752
00:39:53.099 --> 00:39:58.380
up, but it's like, oh, and maybe this week they're the hybrid or

753
00:39:58.380 --> 00:39:59.579
is it a shilder?

754
00:39:59.639 --> 00:40:01.619
Or is it Davros?

755
00:40:01.619 --> 00:40:05.159
Or like it could be me and Missy.

756
00:40:05.219 --> 00:40:07.380
Like, like...

757
00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:09.840
It's like, it's like Jeopardy or something.

758
00:40:09.840 --> 00:40:13.199
Like, you know, I pick, who's the hybrid for $500.

759
00:40:13.559 --> 00:40:14.940
That's it.

760
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:19.739
Like, I think it's probably deliberately a bit crap.

761
00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:22.320
And like Moffatt will do his usual thing.

762
00:40:22.380 --> 00:40:26.760
I'm saying, actually, in a real sense, the hybrid was all the

763
00:40:26.760 --> 00:40:30.780
friends we made along the way or something was all of us, every

764
00:40:30.780 --> 00:40:33.179
single one or something like that.

765
00:40:33.239 --> 00:40:39.000
The thing is, though, I do kind of go, is the having to make sure

766
00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:42.539
you mention the hybrid at least once every 2 episodes is that any

767
00:40:42.539 --> 00:40:46.199
better or worse than, did that person just say Bad Wolf Torchwood

768
00:40:46.199 --> 00:40:47.280
missing Planet Saxon?

769
00:40:48.300 --> 00:40:52.920
It's certainly better than showing us the doctor looking at that

770
00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:56.940
video on the screen of Amy being pregnant and not pregnant at the

771
00:40:56.940 --> 00:40:58.739
same time, like every episode.

772
00:40:59.159 --> 00:41:03.480
I saw some graffiti on the wall, something about the hybrid.

773
00:41:03.599 --> 00:41:04.079
Yeah.

774
00:41:04.139 --> 00:41:05.039
Yeah.

775
00:41:05.039 --> 00:41:05.820
Yeah.

776
00:41:07.079 --> 00:41:11.820
Something I found very interesting about the Kate element of the

777
00:41:11.820 --> 00:41:17.280
cliffhanger is when she's sitting at the desk and she realises who

778
00:41:17.280 --> 00:41:24.000
the cop is, there's an identicate photo behind Kate that looks a

779
00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:26.159
lot like the cop.

780
00:41:26.219 --> 00:41:27.539
Oh, okay.

781
00:41:27.599 --> 00:41:31.559
I don't think we've really focussed on it before, but by focussing

782
00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:35.400
on the fact that she's behind Kate and in front of Kate.

783
00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:37.320
There's 2 of them.

784
00:41:37.800 --> 00:41:40.980
There are some great visual touches here.

785
00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:46.380
And for instance, the scenes in Clara's apartment building.

786
00:41:46.679 --> 00:41:54.059
When she goes into the little kids flat, it's, I think, flats 52

787
00:41:54.059 --> 00:41:56.159
and 51 and they're 2 doors right next to each other.

788
00:41:56.219 --> 00:41:57.239
One, two.

789
00:41:57.300 --> 00:42:01.860
When she goes home to collect some things, it's 63 and 64 next to

790
00:42:01.860 --> 00:42:03.239
each other, three, four.

791
00:42:03.300 --> 00:42:03.900
Right.

792
00:42:03.960 --> 00:42:09.599
So, you know, we go from 2 duplicates. 3 duplicates.

793
00:42:09.659 --> 00:42:14.280
For duplicates, you know, and the kind of escalates.

794
00:42:14.340 --> 00:42:17.039
Oh, God, I just think of the lift.

795
00:42:17.099 --> 00:42:21.480
But I find it hard to believe that these elements of sort of

796
00:42:21.480 --> 00:42:26.579
duality and doubles in the cinematography were accidental.

797
00:42:26.639 --> 00:42:31.260
I do love the way that they cheaply move the camera across to a

798
00:42:31.260 --> 00:42:36.599
reaction from Cade and then move back after the ladies run away

799
00:42:36.599 --> 00:42:40.380
and has been placed by a Zigon.

800
00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:44.639
And I can't help remembering how incredibly great that special

801
00:42:44.639 --> 00:42:49.800
effect was in Day of the Doctor, where Kate actually just turns

802
00:42:49.800 --> 00:42:54.300
into a zigon on screen with what looked like a very effective and

803
00:42:54.300 --> 00:42:57.179
expensive CGI effect.

804
00:42:57.239 --> 00:42:58.260
Do you remember it?

805
00:42:58.320 --> 00:42:59.639
When she vomits.

806
00:42:59.699 --> 00:43:02.820
Yeah, she vomits and then turns into us. it looks so gross.

807
00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:04.800
It's wonderful Yes, it's so gross.

808
00:43:04.860 --> 00:43:08.760
I hate it so much Look, you had to give kudos to an episode that

809
00:43:08.760 --> 00:43:10.679
has a picture of William Harton on the wall.

810
00:43:10.739 --> 00:43:12.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. pretty great.

811
00:43:12.659 --> 00:43:14.639
I got a real flash when I saw it.

812
00:43:14.699 --> 00:43:15.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

813
00:43:15.420 --> 00:43:16.980
I missed it.

814
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:21.360
So the safe in the safe house in South London has a picture of

815
00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:24.960
Hartwell on the wall and we actually open that and go in and look

816
00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:25.679
for things later.

817
00:43:25.739 --> 00:43:27.239
So it's definitely...

818
00:43:27.360 --> 00:43:30.719
I must have been making a note when that was... pretty awesome

819
00:43:30.780 --> 00:43:31.860
pretty great.

820
00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:33.960
It's really interesting when you're watching this.

821
00:43:34.019 --> 00:43:36.900
Like, I always forget that it's not written by Stephen Moffatt.

822
00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:39.480
Like next week he is co-writer.

823
00:43:39.539 --> 00:43:43.860
But, you know, this week it's not him and I know I was thinking, oh

824
00:43:43.860 --> 00:43:46.260
yeah, Stephen's bought back Ozgood and all that and I'm sure, you

825
00:43:46.260 --> 00:43:49.739
know, it was all of his idea, but I just kind of forget that.

826
00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:54.599
I just really enjoyed this so much more this time round.

827
00:43:54.659 --> 00:43:58.739
Well, it just solidified that it is, I think, a really strong

828
00:43:58.739 --> 00:44:02.159
episode, and I've said earlier on, I think this one I enjoy more

829
00:44:02.159 --> 00:44:06.719
than I do next week slightly, although there's terrific stuff with

830
00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:10.980
Osgood, and obviously you'll talk about the doctor's speech, you

831
00:44:10.980 --> 00:44:13.619
know, towards the end of that episode.

832
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:16.079
I guess the one thing I'll say is this.

833
00:44:16.139 --> 00:44:19.380
And next week it's mentioned the same old, same old.

834
00:44:19.380 --> 00:44:23.219
And it's the one thing in these episodes that I just want to

835
00:44:23.219 --> 00:44:27.000
briefly mention before we have to stop, is that the villain is

836
00:44:27.000 --> 00:44:29.280
faced by Jenna Coleman, who we know.

837
00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:33.360
And it's the same old, same old, and this all goes back today, the

838
00:44:33.360 --> 00:44:33.659
doctor.

839
00:44:33.719 --> 00:44:36.780
At this point in the season, I'm finding it's not, I don't want to

840
00:44:36.780 --> 00:44:39.960
say fresh, but I feel there's something about it, that I'm just

841
00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:43.199
saying, I feel like I'm treading water with these characters, or

842
00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:45.719
there's something where I'm not, like I've watched all these

843
00:44:45.719 --> 00:44:48.360
episodes and you've heard me talk about how much I'm really liking

844
00:44:48.360 --> 00:44:52.320
this season, even the episodes I don't like as much, and there's

845
00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:55.199
great performances and consistency, but I get to this point in the

846
00:44:55.199 --> 00:44:58.320
season, and it will go into sleep no more a bit, where I just kind

847
00:44:58.320 --> 00:44:59.699
of feel tired.

848
00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:02.519
And I don't know whether it's having all these 2 partters or

849
00:45:02.519 --> 00:45:05.880
having the villain played by members of the cast.

850
00:45:05.940 --> 00:45:10.260
I think next week there's only one extra character that's not a

851
00:45:10.260 --> 00:45:11.940
member of the semi-regular cast.

852
00:45:12.059 --> 00:45:15.900
And I don't know if that's affecting the ratings.

853
00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:19.079
I mean, I've been talking about that, you know, where hovering

854
00:45:19.079 --> 00:45:22.980
high-fives, low 6s, whether it's that feel, but it's the one thing

855
00:45:22.980 --> 00:45:25.380
that I just wanted to bring up at this point, whether you talk

856
00:45:25.380 --> 00:45:28.139
about it or not in next week's episode, I don't know, but it's

857
00:45:28.139 --> 00:45:29.159
just something that I'm aware of.

858
00:45:29.219 --> 00:45:32.219
I think it's something to talk about in the season because I'm

859
00:45:32.219 --> 00:45:38.219
finding going back to this. that I'm really enjoying it a lot more

860
00:45:38.219 --> 00:45:41.820
than I remember and a lot more than I expected.

861
00:45:41.880 --> 00:45:48.000
But I think it's a bit introspective.

862
00:45:48.059 --> 00:45:49.679
So, yeah.

863
00:45:50.280 --> 00:45:50.760
Thank you, Nathan.

864
00:45:50.820 --> 00:45:51.780
Yeah, yeah.

865
00:45:51.840 --> 00:45:54.239
It took me a while to come up with that word, actually.

866
00:45:54.300 --> 00:46:01.139
It's because the 1st story is all about the Dr. Missy and Davros

867
00:46:01.139 --> 00:46:06.119
that stuff that I was saying earlier, that we are examining the

868
00:46:06.119 --> 00:46:09.599
show as we have it, and this is very much, here are the

869
00:46:09.599 --> 00:46:12.599
consequences from day of the doctor.

870
00:46:12.659 --> 00:46:14.099
And that's a good thing.

871
00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:16.320
You know, that's a good thing.

872
00:46:16.380 --> 00:46:18.059
And it's something that Moffatt doesn't often do.

873
00:46:18.119 --> 00:46:24.059
Like it doesn't often give us the consequences, but it's...

874
00:46:24.119 --> 00:46:29.219
I just remember, um, Eric Stadnick on the writer's room saying

875
00:46:29.219 --> 00:46:35.460
that the thing that he didn't like about the RTD era, or one of

876
00:46:35.460 --> 00:46:38.039
the things that he started to feel towards the end of the era

877
00:46:38.039 --> 00:46:41.519
perhaps, is that its world is small.

878
00:46:41.579 --> 00:46:44.159
It inhabits a small world.

879
00:46:44.219 --> 00:46:47.219
Like everyone kind of knows everyone else.

880
00:46:47.280 --> 00:46:50.340
Everything in the world's happening to the same group of people.

881
00:46:50.340 --> 00:46:51.480
Is that happening here?

882
00:46:51.539 --> 00:46:54.119
It's interesting what you're saying there.

883
00:46:54.179 --> 00:46:56.880
I'm sort of getting it like, you know, we've got Missy and Davros

884
00:46:56.880 --> 00:46:59.880
and our little unit world in those 1st episodes.

885
00:46:59.880 --> 00:47:02.579
In the 2nd world, we are trapped in that little world with those

886
00:47:02.579 --> 00:47:04.920
people in the base on just siege in the next 2 episodes.

887
00:47:04.980 --> 00:47:09.119
It's a shielder and the doctor and that little world and and just

888
00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:14.340
him talking to either a shielder or to Clara and here we're going

889
00:47:14.340 --> 00:47:18.239
back to something that we're seen before we're trapped in our own

890
00:47:18.239 --> 00:47:18.719
little worlds.

891
00:47:18.780 --> 00:47:19.619
We're introspective.

892
00:47:19.739 --> 00:47:21.900
There's something about it that's sort of hemming me in.

893
00:47:21.960 --> 00:47:25.079
I just feel this sort of inward sort of pressure, if I can say

894
00:47:25.079 --> 00:47:25.500
that.

895
00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:28.380
I guess it's something we'll talk about at the end of the season

896
00:47:28.380 --> 00:47:29.639
and see where all that goes.

897
00:47:29.699 --> 00:47:33.659
Because I'm just trying to work out where the relief comes from

898
00:47:33.659 --> 00:47:34.980
when series 10 comes along.

899
00:47:35.039 --> 00:47:40.019
Because I think some of us did feel some relief that we threw all

900
00:47:40.019 --> 00:47:43.199
of that stuff away. away, that we sort of emerged from a long

901
00:47:43.199 --> 00:47:47.760
period of doing the same sort of thing into something that seemed

902
00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:49.320
a bit newer and fresher.

903
00:47:49.380 --> 00:47:50.280
I'm not sure.

904
00:47:50.340 --> 00:47:51.059
I'm not sure.

905
00:47:51.119 --> 00:47:52.380
But it's interesting to think about.

906
00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:22.260
Well, there is now we're going to pop off now and see if we can

907
00:48:22.260 --> 00:48:23.579
find any parachutes anywhere.

908
00:48:23.639 --> 00:48:27.239
With a bit of luck, we'll be back next week in the Zygon

909
00:48:27.239 --> 00:48:27.659
inversion.

910
00:48:27.719 --> 00:48:31.559
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

911
00:48:31.559 --> 00:48:35.219
and you can keep up with us at our website, flights are in tidy

912
00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:38.099
com, where you'll find all our social media links, as well as

913
00:48:38.099 --> 00:48:39.659
links to our other podcasts.

914
00:48:39.719 --> 00:48:44.579
Bondfinger, Jody interterra, maximum power, and untitled Star Trek

915
00:48:44.579 --> 00:48:45.059
project.

916
00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:49.559
Until next time, remember to live out your lives in peace and

917
00:48:49.559 --> 00:48:50.280
harmony.

918
00:48:50.340 --> 00:48:52.139
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

919
00:48:52.199 --> 00:48:53.280
See you soon.

920
00:48:53.340 --> 00:48:56.219
And I'll be waving a tendril from the balcony.

921
00:48:56.280 --> 00:48:57.239
Good night.

922
00:49:03.300 --> 00:49:06.179
That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Todd Beelby, Nathan

923
00:49:06.179 --> 00:49:08.159
Bottomley, Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone.

924
00:49:08.219 --> 00:49:10.559
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

925
00:49:10.619 --> 00:49:14.639
This episode, Electrified pubic Merkins, was recorded on the 10th

926
00:49:14.639 --> 00:49:18.000
of September 2023 and released on the 29th of October.

927
00:49:21.059 --> 00:49:24.900
Today, we're pleased to announce the debut of our new Space 1999

928
00:49:24.900 --> 00:49:27.599
commentary podcast, Startling Barbara Bain.

929
00:49:27.719 --> 00:49:32.519
You can find it at startlingbarbrabain.com and in all good podcast

930
00:49:32.519 --> 00:49:33.300
directories.

931
00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:41.159
Brandon's falling asleep.

932
00:49:41.219 --> 00:49:41.940
Nothing more to say?

933
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:42.780
Very tired.

934
00:49:42.840 --> 00:49:44.219
Well, it was just nicely cooked.

935
00:49:44.340 --> 00:49:44.940
Not falling asleep.

936
00:49:44.940 --> 00:49:47.219
It's just something I wanted to bring up.

937
00:49:47.280 --> 00:49:47.820
Yeah, yeah.

938
00:49:47.880 --> 00:49:49.500
Just feeling it as this season goes.

939
00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:51.420
Because Joe said tired.

940
00:49:51.420 --> 00:49:54.780
And I said, and I thought to myself, you know, doesn't he look

941
00:49:54.780 --> 00:49:55.320
tired?

942
00:49:55.320 --> 00:49:57.179
But that's something that's not something in the show.

943
00:49:57.239 --> 00:49:59.219
That's something that's happening in behind your eyes.

944
00:49:59.280 --> 00:50:00.239
Do you know what I mean?

945
00:50:00.300 --> 00:50:03.840
Like unless you can point to a thing that's happening in the show

946
00:50:03.840 --> 00:50:07.199
then Thai's not a criticism of the show, but it is how you feel

947
00:50:07.199 --> 00:50:07.619
about it.

948
00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:10.980
So what you need to do is kind of go, well, what is it?

949
00:50:11.039 --> 00:50:13.139
Why is it making me feel tired?

950
00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:15.239
What's in the show that's doing that?

951
00:50:15.300 --> 00:50:17.760
And I think maybe that's it's Moffat.

952
00:50:17.820 --> 00:50:18.780
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

953
00:50:18.840 --> 00:50:20.699
I think I think it's introspection.

954
00:50:20.760 --> 00:50:24.179
He's starting to... so think about the... not a young woman

955
00:50:24.179 --> 00:50:24.539
anymore.

956
00:50:24.599 --> 00:50:29.219
No, the fun of series five, the fun of series six, the...

957
00:50:29.219 --> 00:50:30.420
Gorgeous energy.

958
00:50:30.420 --> 00:50:36.659
Fun of 7A, the episodes in 7B. Do you know what I mean?

959
00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:39.119
The shot in the arm that it gets with series 8.

960
00:50:39.179 --> 00:50:41.880
And then it's kind of like, well what am I doing?

961
00:50:41.940 --> 00:50:48.480
And, like, almost, like, we having all these 2 parters, so we

962
00:50:48.480 --> 00:50:50.099
don't have to come up with lots of...

963
00:50:50.099 --> 00:50:52.440
Like, you are 12 stories.

964
00:50:52.860 --> 00:50:54.659
It's a fair point.

965
00:50:54.780 --> 00:50:56.760
I would conjecture.

966
00:50:56.820 --> 00:50:59.940
Perhaps he's just doing what he does so well, which is I need to

967
00:50:59.940 --> 00:51:00.719
shake it up again.

968
00:51:00.780 --> 00:51:01.619
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

969
00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:05.099
Because he'd done this, he hadn't done 2 part of the scene 8, apart

970
00:51:05.099 --> 00:51:08.219
from the finale, and series 7 didn't have any at all.

971
00:51:08.280 --> 00:51:13.079
And he's a big fan of what we grew up with for part stork.

972
00:51:13.139 --> 00:51:17.159
He wrote the 2nd two-parter of the new series and he wrote the

973
00:51:17.159 --> 00:51:21.179
last two-parter of the RTD era, apart from end of time, I guess.

974
00:51:21.239 --> 00:51:23.159
And both of those are magnificent.

975
00:51:23.219 --> 00:51:24.179
Like they're extraordinary.

976
00:51:24.239 --> 00:51:25.860
He can do 2 parters, you know.

977
00:51:25.920 --> 00:51:27.420
What do you think, Todd?

978
00:51:27.420 --> 00:51:28.500
You're not...

979
00:51:28.559 --> 00:51:29.219
No, that's great.

980
00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:30.179
That's a great discussion.

981
00:51:30.239 --> 00:51:34.019
And I'm sure we'll bring it up again as we take notes.

982
00:51:34.079 --> 00:51:36.840
Ask questions in the retrospect.

983
00:51:36.960 --> 00:51:39.000
But how do you feel about the tired thing, though?

984
00:51:39.059 --> 00:51:42.119
But I thought about that as I was watching it.

985
00:51:42.179 --> 00:51:44.219
Like, what is it?

986
00:51:44.280 --> 00:51:46.679
Am I feeling I'm tired of something.

987
00:51:46.739 --> 00:51:47.699
Like I'm feeling tired.

988
00:51:47.760 --> 00:51:48.719
Why am I feeling tired?

989
00:51:48.780 --> 00:51:50.400
It's because of these 2 partters.

990
00:51:50.519 --> 00:51:52.440
I think we've discussed a bit. that was good.

991
00:51:52.500 --> 00:51:54.360
I thought that was probably good ennui.

992
00:51:54.420 --> 00:51:55.199
So French.

993
00:51:55.260 --> 00:51:58.440
No, because I wanted to pinpoint in the show what's happening.

994
00:51:58.800 --> 00:52:06.480
I only think what it is, is that we don't have a fun new element

995
00:52:06.480 --> 00:52:07.260
this season.

996
00:52:07.320 --> 00:52:09.659
We have new elements.

997
00:52:09.719 --> 00:52:11.340
And they're not fun.

998
00:52:11.400 --> 00:52:12.780
I'm not saying they're bad.

999
00:52:12.840 --> 00:52:15.059
They're not bad, but they're not fun.

1000
00:52:15.119 --> 00:52:16.380
We don't have a new companion.

1001
00:52:16.440 --> 00:52:18.000
We don't have a new doctor.

1002
00:52:18.059 --> 00:52:22.920
And the new recurring supporting cast member we get is playing a

1003
00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:27.420
character who has to watch her loved ones die over and over again

1004
00:52:27.420 --> 00:52:29.940
and then she has to write it down.

1005
00:52:30.780 --> 00:52:34.019
She has to write it down because she forgets because she needs to

1006
00:52:34.019 --> 00:52:35.460
remind herself of the pain.

1007
00:52:35.519 --> 00:52:37.980
It's not, it's a great idea.

1008
00:52:38.039 --> 00:52:40.380
It's and it's so well done.

1009
00:52:40.440 --> 00:52:42.599
Is it fun?

1010
00:52:42.659 --> 00:52:47.039
So do you remember when the show starts again in 2005, right?

1011
00:52:47.099 --> 00:52:51.420
I just wanted it to be the doctor and Billy and like they don't

1012
00:52:51.420 --> 00:52:55.860
mention regeneration for a good reason because it's daft and we'll

1013
00:52:55.860 --> 00:52:57.780
only do it in the direst of emergencies.

1014
00:52:57.840 --> 00:53:01.260
And so I just imagine the show being the doctor and Billy for ages

1015
00:53:01.260 --> 00:53:01.679
and ages.

1016
00:53:01.739 --> 00:53:02.340
Do you know what I mean?

1017
00:53:02.400 --> 00:53:03.840
The doctor and Rose travelling together.

1018
00:53:03.900 --> 00:53:06.000
You know, they worked really well, all of that.

1019
00:53:06.059 --> 00:53:11.219
But every year Russell gets to introduce a new character.

1020
00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:15.360
And it turns out that that makes the show really propulsive and

1021
00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:16.380
keeps it fresh.

1022
00:53:16.440 --> 00:53:21.179
Because he understands what the audience's appetite, actually how

1023
00:53:21.179 --> 00:53:22.139
voracious we are.

1024
00:53:22.199 --> 00:53:23.519
And fickle, I would say.

1025
00:53:23.639 --> 00:53:26.639
Oh, and also Doctor Who isn't a thing where you have to start from

1026
00:53:26.639 --> 00:53:27.239
the beginning.

1027
00:53:27.300 --> 00:53:29.159
Like, I'd like to start watching Doctor Who.

1028
00:53:29.280 --> 00:53:33.360
So can anyone tell me where I could buy a DVD of an unearthly

1029
00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:34.139
child?

1030
00:53:34.199 --> 00:53:35.219
Like you don't have to do that.

1031
00:53:35.280 --> 00:53:38.039
You can just turn it on one day.

1032
00:53:38.099 --> 00:53:40.440
I would say it is about the producers.

1033
00:53:40.500 --> 00:53:41.280
It is.

1034
00:53:41.340 --> 00:53:45.300
I mean, Hinchcliffe will be bored and yeah, will be bored with 3

1035
00:53:45.300 --> 00:53:47.820
seasons of Liz Sladin?

1036
00:53:47.880 --> 00:53:48.840
I don't believe any of us were.

1037
00:53:48.960 --> 00:53:49.739
No.

1038
00:53:49.800 --> 00:53:50.699
Yeah.

1039
00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:51.659
Yeah.

1040
00:53:51.719 --> 00:53:57.300
But I think for the new series, because the new series is more

1041
00:53:57.300 --> 00:53:59.219
centred on the characters, do you know what I mean?

1042
00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:03.539
Like, as people, like, the characters of plot functions in the

1043
00:54:03.539 --> 00:54:04.260
70s.

1044
00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:05.039
Do you know what I mean?

1045
00:54:05.099 --> 00:54:05.639
They're characters.

1046
00:54:05.699 --> 00:54:07.679
They're definitely characters and we like them and care about them

1047
00:54:07.679 --> 00:54:09.059
and stuff. rapey billboards.

1048
00:54:09.119 --> 00:54:11.880
But what we don't, do you know what I mean?

1049
00:54:11.940 --> 00:54:15.780
we don't get the let's introduce the show again to Martha and how

1050
00:54:15.780 --> 00:54:18.480
fresh that seems, you know, how interesting that is.

1051
00:54:19.139 --> 00:54:20.579
Yeah.

1052
00:54:20.639 --> 00:54:22.380
Yeah, yeah.

1053
00:54:22.440 --> 00:54:24.420
I think I think there's something in that, isn't there?

1054
00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:25.559
Okay.

1055
00:54:25.559 --> 00:54:26.519
All right.

1056
00:54:26.579 --> 00:54:27.900
I think we've done.

1057
00:54:27.960 --> 00:54:29.219
That's a tag anyway.

1058
00:54:29.280 --> 00:54:31.139
I think that's a good tag, don't you think?

1059
00:54:31.199 --> 00:54:32.519
Yeah, yeah.

1060
00:54:32.579 --> 00:54:36.239
Now, Todd, I've mentioned this on a recording we've done, but you

1061
00:54:36.239 --> 00:54:37.139
won't have heard it yet.

1062
00:54:37.199 --> 00:54:41.099
So a friend of mine listens to the podcast and I can't remember

1063
00:54:41.099 --> 00:54:44.340
which story he was talking about, possibly under the lake before

1064
00:54:44.340 --> 00:54:47.219
the flood, and he wasn't a huge fan of it to begin with.

1065
00:54:47.340 --> 00:54:51.719
And he re, he's rewatched it recently and he was saying to me one

1066
00:54:51.719 --> 00:54:55.739
day, I've had, I've had, Oh, I've had my, I've had my Brad

1067
00:54:55.739 --> 00:54:56.159
moment.

1068
00:54:56.219 --> 00:54:57.360
I said, you've had your what?

1069
00:54:57.420 --> 00:55:01.739
Oh, that guy that guy on your podcast who hates everything until

1070
00:55:01.739 --> 00:55:02.639
he watches it again.

1071
00:55:02.699 --> 00:55:04.079
I'm like, that's the Todd experience.

1072
00:55:04.139 --> 00:55:05.519
Yes, I've had a Todd experience.

1073
00:55:05.699 --> 00:55:07.739
A sad moment.

1074
00:55:07.800 --> 00:55:09.900
That's my bread moment.

1075
00:55:09.900 --> 00:55:12.900
Romana Voltra, Brendan.

1076
00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:13.980
That's you.

1077
00:55:13.980 --> 00:55:14.639
That's the tag.

1078
00:55:14.699 --> 00:55:16.500
And guess what this episode's now called?

1079
00:55:16.559 --> 00:55:19.440
No, I think it has to be the tumbleweed thing.

1080
00:55:19.500 --> 00:55:20.519
Sparking.

1081
00:55:20.519 --> 00:55:20.880
Yeah.

1082
00:55:22.320 --> 00:55:23.940
The bread.

1083
00:55:23.940 --> 00:55:25.019
What did you call it?

1084
00:55:25.019 --> 00:55:25.800
The bread moment.

1085
00:55:25.800 --> 00:55:26.760
The bread moment.

1086
00:55:26.820 --> 00:55:27.539
The Brad moment.

1087
00:55:27.539 --> 00:55:28.860
The Brad moment.

1088
00:55:28.920 --> 00:55:30.360
Brad is short for Bradward.

1089
00:55:30.420 --> 00:55:30.780
Okay.

1090
00:55:30.780 --> 00:55:31.139
Yeah.

1091
00:55:31.199 --> 00:55:32.820
Thank you, Brad.

1092
00:55:36.059 --> 00:55:37.320
Alright, sweetheart.

1093
00:55:37.320 --> 00:55:38.039
That's a compliment.

1094
00:55:38.099 --> 00:55:39.840
Send me the thing.

1095
00:55:39.900 --> 00:55:40.500
Send me the thing.

1096
00:55:40.559 --> 00:55:41.760
I will send you the thing.

1097
00:55:41.820 --> 00:55:43.500
Thank you, old gentlemen.

1098
00:55:43.559 --> 00:55:43.920
All right.

1099
00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:44.940
Have we done it?

1100
00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:45.480
See you later.

1101
00:55:45.539 --> 00:55:46.739
Yeah, we did it at the beginning.

1102
00:55:46.800 --> 00:55:47.400
Oh, I'm old.

1103
00:55:47.639 --> 00:55:48.599
See you all soon.

1104
00:55:48.659 --> 00:55:49.019
All right, okay.

1105
00:55:49.079 --> 00:55:49.500
See you soon.

1106
00:55:49.559 --> 00:55:50.219
Bye bye, darling.

1107
00:55:50.280 --> 00:55:50.519
Bye.

1108
00:55:50.579 --> 00:55:50.940
Bye bye.