WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:49:31 1 00:00:04.740 --> 00:00:15.419 I know for a fact that one of the reasons that Todd doesn't like this that much is because it doesn't have opening credits. 2 00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:18.120 That's one of the reasons I absolutely love it. 3 00:00:19.679 --> 00:00:24.480 I also think that's one of the best things about it, actually, is that it doesn't. 4 00:00:24.539 --> 00:00:26.100 It breaks all that convention. 5 00:00:26.160 --> 00:00:27.000 I actually kind of like that. 6 00:00:27.059 --> 00:00:35.399 I think because this isn't really a Doctor Who episode in the sense of a normal Doctor Who episode. 7 00:00:35.460 --> 00:00:43.380 It's an episode that in the story has been created by one of the characters out of footage available. 8 00:00:43.439 --> 00:00:46.140 So we don't see what happens. 9 00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:50.219 All we see is Rasmussen's version of what happened. 10 00:00:50.280 --> 00:00:51.899 So this is created by him. 11 00:00:51.960 --> 00:00:56.579 Well, evidently he couldn't find the opening title sequence on the cutting room. would be it. 12 00:00:56.640 --> 00:00:58.200 Yeah, it's... 13 00:00:58.200 --> 00:01:09.840 The 1st time I get worried is when I saw this episode and up popped Reese Shearsmith and I was like, oh, it's everyone's least favourite Patrick Trouton impersonator. you know, from the from the TV movie. 14 00:01:09.900 --> 00:01:22.319 You know, because I really was like, it's a thankless job to be given the job of portraying one of the most charismatic character actors of all time in like 5 minutes in a movie, but still I was like, uh-oh, like what's going to happen? 15 00:01:22.439 --> 00:01:26.640 For a 2nd there, I thought you were going to say, everyone's least favourite league of gentlemen. 16 00:01:26.700 --> 00:01:28.079 I was like, oh, that's a bit hard. 17 00:01:28.140 --> 00:01:30.359 Oh, no, no, no, no. 18 00:01:30.420 --> 00:01:31.379 He's great in that. 19 00:01:31.439 --> 00:01:33.000 I like the League of Gentlemen. 20 00:01:33.060 --> 00:01:35.219 I mean, he's the last one to appear. 21 00:01:35.280 --> 00:01:44.219 Obviously, we've had Mark Gatis over and over and over again at this and he's still got at least one appearance on camera left go. 22 00:01:44.819 --> 00:01:49.799 And then we had Pemberton in silence in the library, didn't we? 23 00:01:49.859 --> 00:01:59.099 So he was bound to turn up sooner or later, and to turn up in a Mark Gator script, given that Mark Gatis has written for him so much and knows what he can do. 24 00:01:59.159 --> 00:02:01.620 All we need now is Jeremy Dyson to write an episode. 25 00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:03.540 Yes. true. 26 00:02:03.599 --> 00:02:09.120 The interesting thing about this is that it's way out of Gatus's wheelhouse, I think. 27 00:02:09.240 --> 00:02:15.659 So Gatus can do horror, and that's a lot of what League of Gentlemen is. 28 00:02:15.719 --> 00:02:24.479 It's kind of 3 people, 4 people who were brought up on Hammer horror and using those tropes and playing with them and things. 29 00:02:24.539 --> 00:02:26.039 So that's definitely here. 30 00:02:26.099 --> 00:02:29.819 But Gatus doesn't normally go for 38th century and stuff. 31 00:02:29.879 --> 00:02:32.939 He's usually, you know, his nostalgia, isn't he? 32 00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:35.520 He's the reasonably recent past. 33 00:02:35.699 --> 00:02:47.460 Yeah, and he also is like, um, I think really referential to a certain section of Doctor Who, like the 3rd and 2nd doctor eras are his eras that he's referential too. 34 00:02:47.580 --> 00:02:59.219 So it's interesting for him to do sort of a base under siege story with this one, but in his own way, and pull in the found footage element of it. 35 00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:01.560 So, I mean, I think that's interesting. 36 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:10.439 And I also feel like, I don't know if you guys agree, but I also feel like he's doing a Stephen Moffatt impression in this story, right? 37 00:03:10.500 --> 00:03:21.360 So like, I think he's deliberately kind of moving away from the type of stories he's written before to see if he can do it the way Stephen Moffatt does it, and we'll see how well that works out for him. 38 00:03:21.419 --> 00:03:36.780 Yeah, well, the taking the taking of the mundane that Moffat is so good at that, which is a Doctor Who thing, but Moffat takes it to its kind of nth degree off and taking something like sleep from the corner of your eye and making that into the monster. 39 00:03:36.840 --> 00:03:38.639 That's a very Moffat thing. 40 00:03:38.699 --> 00:03:44.699 The other Moffat thing, I think, is the idea of a framing device that ends up interacting and becoming part of the narrative. 41 00:03:44.759 --> 00:03:52.800 And so we're actually in the next room later in the episode when Rasmussen starts doing his decamera of monologue. 42 00:03:52.860 --> 00:03:56.400 And so he's actually recording that while the episode's going on. 43 00:03:56.460 --> 00:04:00.840 Did anyone see the Stephen Moffat Dracula thing, the three-part? 44 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:11.939 Yeah, because 2 of those 3 parts did exactly the same thing, where we have the story being narrated as a framing device and then the framing device ends up part of the narrative. 45 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:13.860 It's a classic Moffat theme. 46 00:04:13.919 --> 00:04:46.920 So it's interesting to see him try to do that and especially also try to do it in, in a found footage format, which, from a horror point of view, is like one of the bleaker, You know, the reason why the, it's called found footage is it's, it's usually found after everybody involved in the story is dead, you know, and so, you know, the idea behind it is sort of to bring it to reclaim it and there's a certain degree of, um, of cynicism or not cynicism, a nihilism, I guess, to the, to those stories, which is an interesting thing to bring to Doctor Who, because fundamentally we watch the show to 47 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:47.759 watch the doctor win. 48 00:04:47.819 --> 00:04:53.399 And so this is an interesting episode in that regard, or at least bold in what it's trying to do, I thought. 49 00:04:53.519 --> 00:05:03.240 Because, of course, the other thing is that sort of Japanese horror thing, things like the ring as well, where you have a video that if you watch it, you're going to die. 50 00:05:03.300 --> 00:05:06.300 And that's what this episode is, isn't it? 51 00:05:06.959 --> 00:05:10.439 Yeah, I mean, I think it's, well, is it? 52 00:05:10.500 --> 00:05:11.279 I mean, I don't know. 53 00:05:11.339 --> 00:05:26.459 I think that part of the problem that I have with it is that like it starts off being something and then becomes something else and the thing that it winds up being is sort of not anywhere other in the story except in that epilogue, right? 54 00:05:26.519 --> 00:05:39.240 So I don't know if you guys want to go through it from start to finish, but that's one of the things that I have trouble with at the end, where it's like the rules get completely, the Apple cart gets kicked over entirely based on what we thought we were watching. 55 00:05:39.300 --> 00:05:46.079 And I'm not sure that it expends enough shoe leather to really make me buy it other than. 56 00:05:46.199 --> 00:05:49.920 It's just sort of crammed full of narrative. 57 00:05:50.040 --> 00:06:02.220 I didn't know, I can see what you're saying, that the rules do change, but that's sort of what's appealing for me in the sense that, you know, he starts by sort of saying, you don't want to watch this. basically. 58 00:06:02.279 --> 00:06:03.060 You don't want to watch this. 59 00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:04.019 It's awful. 60 00:06:04.079 --> 00:06:09.720 And in that usual sort of way, things get worse and worse, the situations get worse and worse and worse. 61 00:06:09.720 --> 00:06:11.279 And it is all quite chaotic. 62 00:06:11.339 --> 00:06:20.399 And I think it's not meant to make perfect sense from that found footage way because, you know, we don't have everything covered because we've pieced this together from what's available. 63 00:06:20.459 --> 00:06:32.160 And I think I like the fact that it comes across to me, not as a rule change, but as a twist in the end when we discovered that, well, actually, no, by watching this video, you've now been infected with the sleep dust. 64 00:06:32.220 --> 00:06:33.899 I don't know, it's it all. 65 00:06:33.959 --> 00:06:41.519 I mean, I'm not saying it's perfect, and I think there are some moments where it doesn't quite work, but I think it is certainly very gripping, entertaining. 66 00:06:41.579 --> 00:06:47.040 I was completely with it the entire way through and on subsequent viewings as well. 67 00:06:47.100 --> 00:07:01.920 See, my history with it is a little bit different because I remember we were chatting and it may have been during lockdown and we were all kind of chatting in a sort of FTE group and Brandon was saying how much he hated this. 68 00:07:01.980 --> 00:07:06.779 This is one of his very, very, you know, it's down there with Black Orchid. 69 00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:09.420 Yeah, he really, really strongly dislikes it. 70 00:07:09.600 --> 00:07:14.040 And I thought, no, no, it can't be as bad as that. 71 00:07:14.100 --> 00:07:18.360 And I've said before on the podcast that this season of Doctor Who is the one that I know least well. 72 00:07:18.420 --> 00:07:20.399 The one that I'm least familiar with. 73 00:07:20.459 --> 00:07:29.339 It gets released as we're really starting flights through entirety and I'm having to watch 40 episodes of Black and White Doctor Who a month. 74 00:07:29.399 --> 00:07:34.620 And, you know, so I don't think I end up opening the Blu-ray box set when it arrives or whatever. 75 00:07:34.680 --> 00:07:35.939 So I don't know this at all. 76 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:40.019 And I did watch it and I thought it was better than I expected. 77 00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:51.420 But watching it this time, I had the same experience as you, Jeremy, I think that the twist doesn't land, that it's not, it's not telegraphed well enough. 78 00:07:51.420 --> 00:08:05.339 And I think it's confusing at the end exactly what he's trying to do because there's also that feint that there's a monster in the box that's going to be sent to Triton and that's going to start infecting people some other way. 79 00:08:05.339 --> 00:08:06.540 And then psych. 80 00:08:06.660 --> 00:08:08.519 No, it's the episode you've been watching all along. 81 00:08:08.579 --> 00:08:13.500 I just don't think he gets to land it quite so much. 82 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:15.839 And there are some direction things as well. 83 00:08:15.899 --> 00:08:18.180 So forgive me if I'm wrong. 84 00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:23.100 So this is where I think it makes an attempt to be about this. 85 00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:29.519 So it's not completely a surprise that the, it's the episode that's the plan. 86 00:08:29.579 --> 00:08:40.259 So he says, don't watch this at the beginning, just about immediately we hear the static that is the thing that's conveying the message. 87 00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:45.240 And we hear it again and again, and there's no reason why we should hear it if it's just found footage. 88 00:08:45.299 --> 00:08:46.559 Do you know what I mean? 89 00:08:46.620 --> 00:08:48.480 It's one of those things that's hiding in plain sight. 90 00:08:48.539 --> 00:08:50.580 It's like, well, he's editing this together. 91 00:08:50.639 --> 00:08:51.539 What's the static? 92 00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:52.740 Like, why? 93 00:08:52.740 --> 00:08:53.519 Well, static is the better. 94 00:08:53.580 --> 00:08:54.840 He's transmitted it from this. 95 00:08:55.019 --> 00:08:59.100 The static is because he's transmitting it from a space station, which is falling into Neptune. 96 00:08:59.159 --> 00:09:03.419 And so there's, there's, it's not like they've found a disc or a recording. 97 00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:06.720 It's a transmission which is being interrupted by stuff. 98 00:09:06.779 --> 00:09:09.360 Yeah, I don't think that's the way I was reading it. 99 00:09:09.419 --> 00:09:10.740 I don't think that's bad at all. 100 00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:13.019 It's there and then we get it reinterpreted. 101 00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:18.779 That thing that you've heard over and over again in this episode that you just assumed was that is in fact the is in fact the message. 102 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:28.559 And then you get the clever thing where Clara only starts transmitting an image after she's been in the Morpheus box. 103 00:09:28.620 --> 00:09:29.279 Morpheus machine. 104 00:09:29.399 --> 00:09:30.779 And she does that almost immediately. 105 00:09:30.779 --> 00:09:40.980 And then I think towards the end of the episode, we start to have things from our point of view transmitted to us. 106 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:52.860 So there is footage that is clearly not the POV of any of the characters in the scene, but it's also not the black and white footage that we're used to getting from the station. 107 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:57.179 And so we have started to be infected by the end of the episode. 108 00:09:57.240 --> 00:09:58.740 It only starts to happen at the end. 109 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:06.299 You remember that scene where you see Clara's point of view and on the screen behind the doctor? 110 00:10:06.360 --> 00:10:09.240 There's, you know, that image that she's seeing as well. 111 00:10:09.299 --> 00:10:16.740 We get one of those scenes as well, where what we see is what's on the screen as well, and it doesn't seem to be from someone else. 112 00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:28.200 So I think it does, like, it's not a twist that comes completely out of nowhere, but I do think it is a bit confusing and it doesn't seem to be like anything that the rest of the episode is about. 113 00:10:28.259 --> 00:10:29.580 Yeah. 114 00:10:29.580 --> 00:10:45.360 Yeah, I mean, look, it's a sort of a Je ne sais quoi for me because as I've sort of said sometimes before, there are episodes that you don't like and you find all these reasons why they're bad. there are episodes that you like and you excuse all the stuff that's wrong with it. 115 00:10:45.419 --> 00:10:50.039 Yeah, because there's a je ne saisquoir about them that you just, for some reason, it speaks to you. 116 00:10:50.039 --> 00:10:52.379 And that's what I get with this episode. 117 00:10:52.440 --> 00:10:54.299 I'm prepared to acknowledge. 118 00:10:54.960 --> 00:11:00.659 Well, actually, I'm prepared to sort of acknowledge what you've just said about the fact that the twist sort of comes out of nowhere. not telegraphed enough. 119 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:03.720 But I kind of like the fact that that's not telegraphed out of nowhere. 120 00:11:03.779 --> 00:11:06.600 Now, I agree that in another episode I'd have said, oh, well, that's just ridiculous. 121 00:11:06.659 --> 00:11:10.500 Theyve just made that up at the end and it's all horrible and they had no i- they had didn't know how to finish the episode. 122 00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:12.240 I completely acknowledge that. 123 00:11:12.299 --> 00:11:24.840 So I acknowledge that that's a bit of inconsistency that one might have, but I think that is masked by the fact that it is this chaotic found footage thing that you can get away with that kind of error in it. 124 00:11:24.899 --> 00:11:29.039 And I think part of the thing that I like about it is the fact that you get to the end. 125 00:11:29.100 --> 00:11:31.559 You're not entirely sure what you've just seen. 126 00:11:31.620 --> 00:11:33.960 And I think that's part of the point. 127 00:11:34.440 --> 00:11:39.419 So I think all of those things, you know, is it the monster in the Morpheus machine? 128 00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:42.000 Is it the static on the video, putting it in the eye? 129 00:11:42.120 --> 00:11:43.860 I think both things are true. 130 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:47.220 I think there is no one thing going on necessarily. 131 00:11:47.639 --> 00:11:53.639 Well, that's the other thing about found footage, isn't it, that there's no director, and that's what makes this a little bit different. 132 00:11:53.700 --> 00:11:56.399 Like found footage is just what's lying around. 133 00:11:56.460 --> 00:12:19.799 Here we've got a very definite kind of, you know, an editor, someone who's telling a story for a particular purpose, but it is that thing, you know, that you don't have to have a neat story that hits all of the normal kind of script beards because it's found because it's an artefact rather than a, you know, like a Hollywood film or something. 134 00:12:19.860 --> 00:12:37.019 Yeah, and it's interesting because my, when I 1st saw it, My relationship to this era of Doctor, it's my favourite era of New Doctor Who, is these seasons with Peter Capaldi, and I recognise there's a lot of issues that some people may have with it for sure. 135 00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:43.139 I'm not sure that it's the most well constructed era, but I think it's my favourite. 136 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:48.840 And part of it is because I love that Stephen Moffatt starts it off going, I'm not sure why I'm doing this anymore. 137 00:12:48.899 --> 00:12:53.220 So maybe the doctor shouldn't be sure why he's doing this anymore either, right? 138 00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:57.419 And it becomes an arc of someone finding a reason why to keep going. 139 00:12:57.480 --> 00:13:03.000 So I've watched it many times, but I've only before agreeing to do this podcast. 140 00:13:03.059 --> 00:13:04.379 I'd only seen this episode once. 141 00:13:04.440 --> 00:13:09.240 So that tells you that I legitimately just something about it. 142 00:13:09.299 --> 00:13:19.379 And I think, Part of it was that, I just felt a couple of problems really affect my enjoyment of it. 143 00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:26.639 The 1st is that I think found footage works primarily because of our of our investment in the characters. 144 00:13:26.700 --> 00:13:35.039 And I think we'll probably talk about the supporting cast and the supporting characters of this, but they're very thinly drawn. 145 00:13:35.100 --> 00:13:38.220 Um, even for a horror movie plot, right? 146 00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:42.059 Um, and so it's hard to kind of get invested in it. 147 00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:47.820 And the 2nd thing is, is that the unreliable narration of the whole narrative. 148 00:13:47.940 --> 00:14:02.279 At the end, it's sort of, I think if you don't allow the audience to come along with you, and instead you're ahead of it, um, it can feel disingenuous or it can affect your suspension of disbelief. 149 00:14:02.340 --> 00:14:09.840 And the 3rd thing, and those 2 things, I think, are minor, but the 3rd thing is, The fact of the monster itself is not. 150 00:14:10.019 --> 00:14:15.899 It ain't great, you know, I mean, like, it's a, the mundane thing that he's transforming. 151 00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:23.279 I think, needed another polish to get to a point where my suspension of disbelief can be maintained. 152 00:14:23.399 --> 00:14:32.759 I don't have an answer for what this thing is that's better than what they give me and what they give me is not great to my mind. 153 00:14:32.820 --> 00:14:34.080 I honestly don't know. 154 00:14:34.139 --> 00:14:35.639 Is it called sleep dust? 155 00:14:35.700 --> 00:14:38.039 Where you guys are? 156 00:14:38.100 --> 00:14:38.879 Is that what it's called? 157 00:14:38.940 --> 00:14:41.039 No, we just call it sleep. 158 00:14:41.100 --> 00:14:42.480 It's just called sleep. 159 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:43.440 Okay, so yeah. 160 00:14:43.500 --> 00:14:49.259 Sleep is something that we call, and we call it, but we also call it eye crusties or eye boogers. 161 00:14:49.259 --> 00:14:52.019 And both of those things... 162 00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:52.980 Yeah. 163 00:14:53.039 --> 00:15:01.080 So, I mean, in North America, when when it was revealed what these creatures were, there was a lot of people that were like, hi, bookers, really? 164 00:15:01.139 --> 00:15:01.799 That's what they are. 165 00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:08.820 Like, you know, they're walking around and, I mean, there's a lot of heavy lifting scientific double talk that Doctor Who can do. 166 00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:16.860 I'm not sure it can just say if you don't get enough sleep, the sleep in your eye becomes a monster that walks around. don't think it works. 167 00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:29.340 I have to say, as someone who loudly defended both in the forest of the night and kill the moon last year, that I'm going to give the eye booger monsters a part. 168 00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:45.000 But I do have to say that the reason that they even approach working is that they're in this rather than in some other story where the camera was a little bit more leisurely. 169 00:15:45.059 --> 00:15:52.740 It is the fact that it's this sort of scrappy footage, all handheld and stuff, so you don't see them too much because they are a bit crummy. 170 00:15:52.799 --> 00:16:03.419 And I think if they had been... standing still, you know, like in a well lit room. shot by a camera that wasn't swinging around all the time. 171 00:16:03.419 --> 00:16:11.340 I think we would have been much less inclined to forgive them because they look preposterous and you know how there's that thing, the Doctor Who monster thing. 172 00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:32.399 I think most recently we saw it with the Fisher King, but the classic moment of it is when those, the sea devils come out of the sea and they just look like actors with turtle hats on, you know, like, like, like, you know, whenever you're looking at Doctor Who Monster and you go, those holes at the top of its chest is where the actor is looking out, you know. 173 00:16:32.460 --> 00:16:38.940 And so you hear, the monster's giant mouths that just look like they're sort of painted on these. 174 00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:42.059 It's kind of... 175 00:16:42.059 --> 00:16:58.980 My favourite thing about the sea devils is when they come out of the water and they're like, you can see water sluishing out of the gaps in the makeup and they're wearing that mesh outfit that looks like Belinda Carlisle's dress on a go-go's tour, you know, like, and it's just a weird, it's just a... 176 00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:00.179 I't know how to feel looking at me. 177 00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:04.200 They have to drill holes in the bottom of the masks to let the water out. 178 00:17:04.619 --> 00:17:06.599 As the thing? 179 00:17:06.660 --> 00:17:10.019 The heads kept floating off. 180 00:17:10.019 --> 00:17:10.859 Yeah, that's fast. 181 00:17:11.099 --> 00:17:12.480 Yeah. 182 00:17:12.539 --> 00:17:15.660 So they do suffer a little bit from that, I think. 183 00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:29.339 But I like the sound design of them because they sound like sound that I'm very familiar with, which is that it sounds like the noises that middle-aged men make when they're sort of sleeping or waking up or snoring and stuff. 184 00:17:29.400 --> 00:17:33.359 And so I feel really seen by these particular boys. 185 00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:39.779 It's a lot sort of... sort of stuff that growling. 186 00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:41.220 I think that is pretty great. 187 00:17:41.279 --> 00:17:49.619 It was all recorded by a sound guy who just watched Stephen Moffatt pick up a pencil that he dropped. is groaning and Scottish. 188 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:58.500 You know, this story has a really long and torturous evolution. 189 00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:06.779 It was originally pitched as an idea, I believe, during the 2010 season development. 190 00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:09.240 Gatus came up with this idea. 191 00:18:09.299 --> 00:18:11.640 It was originally supposed to be a two-parter. 192 00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:14.460 The 1st part would have been... 193 00:18:14.460 --> 00:18:15.299 Probably fortunate. 194 00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:17.339 I acknowledged that it was fortunate. 195 00:18:17.339 --> 00:18:27.720 The 1st part would have been this kind of setup. without the found footage that came in later to try and make it work a bit better. 196 00:18:27.779 --> 00:18:37.500 And then the 2nd part would have been seeing the aftermath or like another version of that would have been, if the other way around, which would have quite worked in this season. 197 00:18:37.500 --> 00:18:40.920 And he actually did propose that initially. 198 00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:48.299 Yeah, you'd come into it and then you'd go back and see how it happened when they were developing this season. 199 00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:50.220 But because of the... 200 00:18:50.220 --> 00:18:50.759 Under the light. 201 00:18:50.759 --> 00:18:51.240 Under the light. 202 00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:55.079 I've had it already before the flood episodes, Moffat said, no, you can't do that. 203 00:18:55.140 --> 00:18:58.079 And that's how they arrived at the found footage. 204 00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:04.019 I think it's probably preferable that we ended up where we did, although that idea, I think, could work as well. 205 00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:12.240 But it's another example for me, a good example of how you make the 45 minute self-contained episode format of the show work. 206 00:19:12.299 --> 00:19:19.200 It has the feeling of a short story rather than the feeling of a feature film which is being crunched into 45 minutes. 207 00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:29.039 Although, I have to say that at exactly the halfway point, At the end of part two, we get the gravity, you know, the gravity shields. 208 00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:37.440 Falling into Neptune, breaking down at exactly the point where the sand miners motive thing stopped working. 209 00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:38.279 Keeps going. 210 00:19:38.339 --> 00:19:48.660 And then later on we discover that Shearsmith's character only did that to provide an exciting bit in the middle of the episode to keep his victims watching. 211 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:51.660 He literally admits that it's only there for that reason. 212 00:19:53.220 --> 00:20:02.940 And I think the impression that I get is that the signal in the episode only works if you've seen it enough. 213 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:08.700 And so that's why it's only towards the end of the episode that we start seeing things from our point of view. 214 00:20:08.759 --> 00:20:12.420 And it's never made super clear, but again, you know, found footage and whatever. 215 00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:16.259 I mean, is he off in the other room editing this whole damn thing? 216 00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:18.599 Like, anyway, doesn't matter. 217 00:20:18.660 --> 00:20:25.380 Look, how do you critiqued the perhaps poor realisation of the monsters? 218 00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:39.539 I want to compliment the fantastic visualisation of Neptune and that sequence that you just mentioned of regardless of whether it's just made up for the sake of exciting bit in the episode or not, which they can't acknowledge. 219 00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:42.299 But that's very meta actually to do it that way, isn't it? 220 00:20:42.359 --> 00:20:46.079 But he has this wonderful sense of, and this is another reason why I like this episode. 221 00:20:46.140 --> 00:20:50.099 It has this wonderful sense of we are so far away from the warmth of the sun. 222 00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:54.359 The visualisation of Neptune that you get and you don't get a nice clear shot of it. 223 00:20:54.420 --> 00:20:58.440 You just get a bit of it out of porthole window and it's all shaking, so you kind of have a really good look at it. 224 00:20:58.500 --> 00:21:03.960 It just really makes me think of the fact that, you know, we are in the outer reaches of the solar system. 225 00:21:04.019 --> 00:21:05.279 It is cold, it is dark. 226 00:21:05.339 --> 00:21:08.460 There is no one anywhere to help. 227 00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:11.759 We are on our own and I think that that's incredibly effective. 228 00:21:11.819 --> 00:21:15.359 I really liked that Neptune idea like a lot. 229 00:21:15.420 --> 00:21:19.980 And when he says it like right up front that this station is in orbit of Neptune. 230 00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:21.059 That's super interesting. 231 00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:38.759 I did go on TARDIS Wakia and I learned that the great catastrophe is supposed to be the earth's imminent catastrophic collision with the sun that Turlow mocks Tegan with at the beginning of Frontios. 232 00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:47.160 And so perhaps we're all on the outskirts of the solar system at this point because remember, all of the people live on Triton, don't they? 233 00:21:47.220 --> 00:21:48.119 But is it the 38? 234 00:21:48.180 --> 00:21:49.859 century or something. isn't it? 235 00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:50.579 Yeah, that's the problem. 236 00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:52.680 It's not it's not late enough or whatever. 237 00:21:52.740 --> 00:22:01.380 I think, I mean, it could be, it could be the solar flare thing because isn't Nerve a Beacon supposed to be the 20th century, late 29th, early 30th century, yeah. 238 00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:02.460 There's a 1000000 things it could be. 239 00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:04.319 But like, whatever, and he's super... 240 00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:04.740 But who cares? 241 00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:06.000 I mean, you know, the age about it. 242 00:22:06.059 --> 00:22:07.259 There are many futures. 243 00:22:07.319 --> 00:22:07.799 Yeah, yeah. 244 00:22:10.859 --> 00:22:28.380 It's interesting, James, what you said about, like, you know, the how long Mark Gatis had been working on it because my initial thought was this felt very 1st draughty because there's a bunch of things that happen in it that I feel like come out of nowhere because he's painted himself into a corner. 245 00:22:28.440 --> 00:22:32.880 So like the, the, the monster's not being able to see all of a sudden and the doctor revealing that. 246 00:22:32.940 --> 00:22:36.299 That's something that wasn't really hinted at and now all of a sudden it's there. 247 00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:42.000 But I think it's actually hearing what you say, it actually makes more sense now that probably he's worked on it a lot. 248 00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:45.900 And he's put in everything that he likes about the idea. 249 00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:48.599 And so there's just a lot going on in here. 250 00:22:48.660 --> 00:22:56.099 Like normally there's like some late stage anti-capitalism commentary going on in there, which is always great, some anti-industry stuff. 251 00:22:56.160 --> 00:23:01.079 There's, you know, um, genetic modification stuff is going on in there. 252 00:23:01.140 --> 00:23:02.640 There's so much happening. 253 00:23:02.700 --> 00:23:07.319 There's a weird sort of military commentary that's going on. 254 00:23:07.380 --> 00:23:17.759 I'm sure we'll talk about, and there's all this stuff, and I think part of the problem is at the end, unless you really latch on to a good idea and follow it through. 255 00:23:17.819 --> 00:23:24.480 There's just so much noise that it's hard to kind of take the one or 2 big themes, you know? 256 00:23:25.500 --> 00:23:28.319 Yes, I think that's probably true. 257 00:23:28.380 --> 00:23:41.579 I think possibly also it's because he couldn't make his original concepts work for various reasons either because he'd been stewing on it for a long time and it wasn't quite, you know, it wasn't quite coming together. 258 00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:48.960 The original concept had these, it was much more about a satire of late stage capitalism. 259 00:23:49.019 --> 00:23:51.000 There were 2 factions. 260 00:23:51.059 --> 00:23:54.599 There were the Whiteys and the rips. 261 00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:57.480 Does that nearly be in there? 262 00:23:57.599 --> 00:23:59.039 Oh, the Whiteys and the ribs, yeah. 263 00:23:59.099 --> 00:24:00.180 Yeah, the Whitey thing. 264 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:03.240 The wide awake thing does get in there, but the rip thing doesn't. 265 00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:05.099 No, but doesn't doesn't... 266 00:24:05.099 --> 00:24:11.579 Doesn't the leader say of Chopra that he's talking like a rib or something like that? 267 00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:13.500 like I didn't quite get that. something like that. 268 00:24:13.559 --> 00:24:18.000 Yeah, so that might have remained because he's the only one who hasn't used the thing. 269 00:24:18.059 --> 00:24:23.519 It's not like data has to be quite like political in that way, is it? 270 00:24:23.579 --> 00:24:36.359 Yeah, I think it's just, I mean, it's interesting that they, you know, the sleep thing, the whole point of, you know, only needing half an hour sleep every month or whatever the hell it is, is, you know, is a time is money thing. 271 00:24:36.420 --> 00:24:40.200 Whereas it's kind of like, I mean, in the real world now. 272 00:24:40.259 --> 00:24:44.759 I mean, what I wouldn't give to be able to only have to sleep half an hour, a night or something. 273 00:24:44.819 --> 00:24:47.279 And I'm not saying how much more I'd get done in terms of my business. 274 00:24:47.339 --> 00:24:49.920 I get, well, look at all this stuff I could watch. read these books. 275 00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:55.680 It's interesting that they don't focus on what would be how leisure would change. 276 00:24:55.740 --> 00:25:05.640 I think you're supposed to have the impression that it's more like a series of, you know, 80s advertising executives snorting Coke so that they can, you know, work all night to get their brief together. 277 00:25:05.700 --> 00:25:06.839 Yeah. 278 00:25:06.839 --> 00:25:18.240 But they do, they do hint at that because the commander is very positive on it and doesn't feel exploited and has that line where she says she enjoyed, like this is great for us. you know, all this sort of stuff. 279 00:25:18.299 --> 00:25:31.200 So there is, I think, once again, I think there is like, it's not like there's a dearth of ideas, which, you know, to be honest, like some of Gaitas's stuff has been very, in the past, and I like his his stuff overall. 280 00:25:31.319 --> 00:25:32.640 I think Crimson Horror is really great. 281 00:25:32.700 --> 00:25:33.900 Not quite dead is great. 282 00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:42.599 Um, But they tend to be less layered with huge ideas and more about a single idea that he wants to explore fully. 283 00:25:42.660 --> 00:25:48.660 And this one feels much more like he's throwing everything that he can at this story. 284 00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:52.200 And I feel like it's, it's one of his most ambitious ones. 285 00:25:52.259 --> 00:26:02.400 And even though I don't like it, I'd rather have a big swing and a miss than people who don't swing at all and just kind of want to tell a standard Doctor Who story, whatever that is. 286 00:26:02.759 --> 00:26:08.279 I mean, in one way, it positions itself, though, as a standard Doctor Who story, doesn't it? 287 00:26:08.339 --> 00:26:11.339 I mean, that's what Rasmusen says about it at the end. 288 00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:13.619 He says, you know, I've put some monsters in. 289 00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:14.880 I've put some thrills. 290 00:26:14.940 --> 00:26:18.420 There's a big climax at the end and then we all go off. 291 00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:24.059 And in a way, there is something a little bit generic about what we end up with. 292 00:26:24.119 --> 00:26:37.980 Not the found footage stuff, that is unique, and that is the thing that the show hasn't done before, but I did feel like the space corridors were all very kind of the sort of thing that we've seen before quite a lot. 293 00:26:38.039 --> 00:27:02.279 And yeah, it's the kind of thing that you always end up comparing unfavourably to the impossible planet, you know, that the Impossible Planet is the place where we nail the base under siege by giving every character a really clear identity, making them all different from one another, characterising them really well in a way that maybe only Russell T. Davies can actually achieve. 294 00:27:02.400 --> 00:27:15.240 Here, you've only got the 4 characters plus Erasmusen, and I think they're all a lot less interesting than those characters from Impossible Planet. 295 00:27:15.299 --> 00:27:19.740 Oh, look, I entirely agree with you that those characters are not particularly interesting. 296 00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:36.960 But in some respects, James, it surprises me that that is the backstory of the genesis of this episode because for me, if I was just guessing, I would have said they had an idea for what was going to be a fairly generic episode. 297 00:27:36.960 --> 00:27:42.119 And they did all the found footage stuff as a way of making it more interesting. 298 00:27:42.180 --> 00:27:44.519 That sounds like it something else. 299 00:27:44.579 --> 00:27:45.779 Yeah, doesn't it? 300 00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:46.680 Does it? 301 00:27:46.740 --> 00:27:50.160 Well, so the found that you're saying the found footage wasn't in that original two-part idea. 302 00:27:50.220 --> 00:27:51.359 No, it comes back later. 303 00:27:51.420 --> 00:27:52.500 Well, there you go. 304 00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:55.500 Well, okay, well, then my instinct is correct. 305 00:27:55.559 --> 00:27:56.160 I'm sorry. 306 00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:58.500 I slightly misinterpreted what you meant. 307 00:27:58.559 --> 00:28:02.940 But I think that that for me kind of demonstrates this is a creativity. 308 00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:10.140 Look, we're going to do a generic episode, but we're going to mask the generic nature of it by presenting it in a completely different way. 309 00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:12.960 And in a way that we've never done before and we're never going to do it again. 310 00:28:13.019 --> 00:28:29.099 Well, except when you think about 42, where 42 is, again, horrifyingly generic in a particularly cheap new way, and it has the, it's in real time, and so we're going to flash to a countdown clock or, you know, all the time. 311 00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:30.960 So it's very similar, I think. 312 00:28:31.019 --> 00:28:37.140 And I think likewise, the characters are not very well drawn, I think. 313 00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:40.740 That that element of it gets forgotten in the in the process. 314 00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:47.220 Yeah, I'm slightly worried about the woman who seems to be played by a woman of Chinese background. 315 00:28:47.220 --> 00:29:08.880 She's supposed to be Japanese, but the joke is she's supposed to be Japanese, but she talks with a northern accent, which I think is, that's a bit of a gay to-sy thing, and I think it's a bit unfortunate, and I want to compare it to Belle, uh, in flux, remember, who is a woman of like Asian background who spoke with a really, really strong northern Irish accent. 316 00:29:09.059 --> 00:29:10.079 That's a British thing. 317 00:29:10.140 --> 00:29:11.279 Yeah, yeah. 318 00:29:11.339 --> 00:29:15.119 People who are immigrants into Britain tend to adopt. 319 00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:17.279 No, everyone in a really strong way. everyone does. 320 00:29:17.339 --> 00:29:20.160 But in a way, it's almost like a thing. 321 00:29:20.220 --> 00:29:26.940 It's like that's all he's come up with is she calls everyone pet and she speaks with a Northern accent and that's a character. 322 00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:36.059 And then you've got, then you've got Bethany Black's character who, I think Tit is on the edge of being a little bit offensive. 323 00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:39.720 So this is the 1st time we cast a transgender actor. 324 00:29:39.779 --> 00:29:44.880 Bethany Black is very, very outspoken and knows her mind. 325 00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:46.019 Do you know what I mean? 326 00:29:46.079 --> 00:29:53.579 I don't think she's been tricked into doing this from all reports she loved being in Doctor Who and loved playing this part. 327 00:29:53.640 --> 00:30:05.880 But I do think it is a little bit unfortunate, our 1st transgender actress cast as a weird sexless drone character who gets called it by, you know, at least one of the other characters. 328 00:30:06.359 --> 00:30:09.900 And then you've got Chopper who's pretty, which I don't object to. 329 00:30:09.960 --> 00:30:13.500 That's a perfectly valid characterisation. of a character. 330 00:30:13.559 --> 00:30:15.299 He really is very... 331 00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:16.859 Well cast from the script. 332 00:30:16.920 --> 00:30:18.539 Yes, what's my character's motivation? 333 00:30:18.599 --> 00:30:19.019 You're pretty. 334 00:30:19.079 --> 00:30:20.819 Yeah, no, I love it. 335 00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:22.559 More of that, please, Mr. Gay. 336 00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:26.759 Yeah, and to go back to Bethany Black, too. 337 00:30:26.819 --> 00:30:33.839 I mean, you know, it's a super unfortunate thing because she's othered throughout the entire story, right? 338 00:30:33.900 --> 00:30:48.180 So, you know, it's an opportunity to cast the transactor for the 1st time in the show, which is wonderful, but you're casting them as an oddity, and she is a figure of debate and marginalisation. 339 00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:53.099 And even the doc, it's kind of reminds me in a weird way of Wang Chiang. 340 00:30:53.160 --> 00:31:02.700 Even the doctor implies that she's not very smart and that, you know, this is, you know, and like, doesn't stand up for her or any of that, nobody does, right? 341 00:31:02.759 --> 00:31:05.279 And I don't think that this is an intentional thing. 342 00:31:05.339 --> 00:31:16.200 I don't think that anybody wanted to create something that other the 1st transactor, but it does, and it feels very off-putting now. 343 00:31:16.259 --> 00:31:26.700 And it's, it's, I think the thing that does make the episode sort of unpleasant. in an otherwise, I think, um, flawed but interesting episode. 344 00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:28.799 Like, I think it's way more interesting than 42. 345 00:31:28.980 --> 00:31:29.640 Yeah. 346 00:31:29.700 --> 00:31:39.720 I don't know if it's as enjoyable for me as 42 because I think you can just kind of surf along 42's plot moments and not be bothered by it. 347 00:31:39.779 --> 00:31:41.220 Nothing about it. 348 00:31:41.220 --> 00:31:43.740 Yeah, but I like this one. 349 00:31:43.859 --> 00:31:46.500 Well, yeah, no. 350 00:31:46.559 --> 00:31:46.740 Yeah. 351 00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:50.579 You know, David Tennant with his teeth saying burn with me. 352 00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:52.859 I don't need to ever see that again. 353 00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:55.799 Yeah, some proper teeth acting happening there. 354 00:31:55.859 --> 00:32:04.200 And also, you know, I think that she's not given a moment to really redefine anybody's point of view. 355 00:32:04.259 --> 00:32:05.940 I mean, Chopper does that on his own. 356 00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:07.440 Do you know what I mean? 357 00:32:07.500 --> 00:32:14.099 And she just sort of does the thing that she stated to do at the beginning, which is to be sort of a physical presence. 358 00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:19.319 And that's a, it's just a real, real missed, like a real missed opportunity. 359 00:32:19.380 --> 00:32:22.200 I think it has a reasonably nice ending. 360 00:32:22.259 --> 00:32:29.220 Like, I do like the fact that at the end, she saves chopra, tells him he's pretty and for the 1st time he doesn't flinch away from it. 361 00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:37.559 He smiles, you know, like, so there's some attempt to humanise her, but it's in the narrative, it's not any of the characters, and you're right. 362 00:32:37.619 --> 00:32:38.880 It's not the doctor either. 363 00:32:38.940 --> 00:32:40.500 Yeah, it's too little too late. 364 00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:46.859 Yeah, well, that's, well, it's not, it's more the fact that the doctor does not treat them well. 365 00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:51.599 And I think it comes back to what we sort of discussed before about these issues. 366 00:32:51.660 --> 00:32:56.519 I mean, this transactor has been cast in this role. 367 00:32:56.579 --> 00:33:00.299 The role wasn't created for a transactor per se, I presume. 368 00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:05.339 It was just the fact that they decided that this person had the right look that they were after for whatever reason. 369 00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:09.000 I mean, I know it's all sort of troubling and so on difficult, but he's so hard. 370 00:33:09.059 --> 00:33:11.579 Because the character itself is not supposed to be a trans character. 371 00:33:11.640 --> 00:33:13.019 It's just a character. 372 00:33:13.079 --> 00:33:17.279 But the character is supposed to be a genetically created grunt person. 373 00:33:17.339 --> 00:33:20.579 Like basically a dog's body. that, do I read that, right? 374 00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:21.539 Or a soldier, right? 375 00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:23.819 As soldier, like, but a grunt soldier? 376 00:33:23.880 --> 00:33:25.079 basically cannon fodder, probably. 377 00:33:25.140 --> 00:33:30.119 A foot soldier to basically follow waters and not basically have a revolution or anything like that. 378 00:33:30.180 --> 00:33:39.900 So we don't, obviously, we don't explore all the issues around that. admittedly, because that's a whole other question to explore. 379 00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:42.779 Maybe it's better not to even have such a such a creature. 380 00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:43.380 I don't know. 381 00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:47.819 Maybe is it just better just to have a member of the crew who is thick, who is, you know, a bit slow or whatever? 382 00:33:47.880 --> 00:33:48.299 I don't know. 383 00:33:48.359 --> 00:33:55.920 I mean, I think it is just another one of these sort of huge bucket load of ideas that's been thrown at this, as Jeremy said. 384 00:33:55.980 --> 00:34:05.339 Look, we are about to get proper trans ramp in the show with Yasmin Finney, who was in Heartstopper, which was my pick of the week last week. 385 00:34:05.400 --> 00:34:10.619 And I think Russell will be showing us how to do that properly. 386 00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:16.380 And I think we'll see an improvement in just representation all around. 387 00:34:16.440 --> 00:34:24.480 I think the people who are expecting the Chibnal era to be an anomaly are in for a horrible surprise, I think, when Russell comes back. 388 00:34:24.599 --> 00:34:25.380 Yeah. 389 00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:27.780 So I think it will be done right. 390 00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:30.360 And like I said, Bethany Blake's not stupid. 391 00:34:30.420 --> 00:34:35.219 She knew what she was doing and she liked the part and she was happy to play the role. 392 00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:46.320 And so, you know, there's that at least, but, but I have to admit that I am still a little bit uncomfortable with how it turned out, but I do like that scene at the end. 393 00:34:46.380 --> 00:34:59.820 And that is the closest that we get to any kind of characterisation is that she thinks that chopra is pretty and and chopra is pretty dismissive of and contentious of it and that's all we have. 394 00:34:59.880 --> 00:35:20.400 You know, Peter said, Peter was here just now, and he said, it's like giving David Warner's character that Ultravox fandom thing, it's like just a sort of a bit of a limp shortcut for actually giving someone a character gives someone a notable characteristic, which makes them memorable. 395 00:35:21.239 --> 00:35:31.380 My friend calls that the cappuccino thing, which it comes from a Will Smith movie called Enemy of the State, where he's obsessed with getting good coffee, like a good coffee maker. 396 00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:35.519 There's a scene in the beginning where he's just angry about they don't have the right coffee maker in their house. 397 00:35:35.579 --> 00:35:37.800 It doesn't have anything to do with the plot. 398 00:35:37.860 --> 00:35:43.440 It, just a way of saying, here's a human being with like some sort of likes and dislike that you can maybe latch onto. 399 00:35:43.500 --> 00:35:46.679 And he always points it out. oh, it's a cappuccino moment. 400 00:35:46.739 --> 00:35:50.760 They made that guy like a baseball card collector and it's just it's just a shorthand, right? 401 00:35:50.820 --> 00:35:52.079 it works or doesn't. 402 00:35:52.139 --> 00:35:52.679 Yeah. 403 00:35:52.739 --> 00:36:09.300 But when you compare it, like the one person that I think that that Russell does, remember in partners in crime, remember Stacy, Donna's interviewing Stacy and Stacy is a very definite person and like her death lands. 404 00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:13.920 And, you know, it's the genius of making her having lost weight. 405 00:36:13.980 --> 00:36:18.000 She's going to go and dump her boyfriend because she reckons she can do better now. 406 00:36:18.059 --> 00:36:20.159 It's so awesome and it's so fun. 407 00:36:20.219 --> 00:36:21.239 It's so well done. 408 00:36:21.300 --> 00:36:27.900 It's funny and warm and humane and real. in a way that this isn't, you know. 409 00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:30.420 Yes, but it's a very different tone. 410 00:36:30.420 --> 00:36:32.039 It's a very different tone of an episode. 411 00:36:32.099 --> 00:36:59.940 And he does it twice in that episode too, because Russell also creates that reporter character investigating the adipo stuff who's like a almost like Russell saying, hey, look, this would be typically the companion, but she's not going to be, but she's still going to be interesting, and it's just sort of, I always think like we have a really hard time because we've had 2 absolute geniuses of television, Russell and Moffatt work on it, and they can do stuff like that, especially character work with Davies. 412 00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:05.280 He can do stuff in a 2nd that writers sweat over for months and months and months. 413 00:37:05.340 --> 00:37:07.619 And so, it's sometimes not fair. 414 00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:08.699 We've been spoiled, right? 415 00:37:08.760 --> 00:37:11.219 You know, that that we have a writer that can do that. 416 00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:12.360 So it's nice that he's coming back. 417 00:37:15.420 --> 00:37:25.320 I mean, I'm sure you will have that thing where there is an episode which is, say, really, really well loved or really, really loathed by the general populace and you have the opposite view. 418 00:37:25.380 --> 00:37:31.739 Now, sometimes you go, yeah, yeah, I get that it's a bit rubbish, but I just have a sauce buffer. 419 00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:32.940 I love it because of this at the other. 420 00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:42.119 This is actually an example of one which I think, you know, is to put it in sort of Todd's parlance is kind of a 7 out of 10, a reasonably solid episode. 421 00:37:42.179 --> 00:37:44.760 But I was looking at some Dwim stuff. 422 00:37:44.820 --> 00:37:48.480 And online, and this is like utterly despised. 423 00:37:48.539 --> 00:37:52.019 Like this is often in like the bottom 20 of all time. 424 00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:56.159 I mean, it's it's level with the on the list that I was looking at. 425 00:37:56.219 --> 00:37:58.980 It's level with Kill the Moon and in the forest of the night. 426 00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:02.099 Things like time lash, things like, you know, those sorts of episodes. 427 00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:02.699 Yeah, exactly. 428 00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:06.780 And that absolutely, I'm actually quite bewildered by that. 429 00:38:06.840 --> 00:38:10.440 I can understand that people think, 0 yeah, it's a bit mediocre. doesn't work here. 430 00:38:10.500 --> 00:38:11.400 It's a bit rubbish. 431 00:38:11.460 --> 00:38:14.639 But to have it that far down that really surprises me. 432 00:38:14.699 --> 00:38:16.440 I feel the same way. 433 00:38:16.500 --> 00:38:22.739 I don't think it's that great, and I did think this time through that it was a bit less good than I thought it was previously thought it was. 434 00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:24.719 See, I had the Todd experience. 435 00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:25.619 Oh, did you? 436 00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:29.280 Well, I don't think I'd really watch it more than once. 437 00:38:29.340 --> 00:38:33.480 And I thought it deserved to be down there with time match. 438 00:38:33.539 --> 00:38:35.880 I quite like things I quite like timelash. 439 00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:38.579 Yeah, but you acknowledge rubbish. 440 00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:41.219 No, no, no, no. 441 00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:44.099 And I thought, oh, it was enjoyable, but it was kind of pants. 442 00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:45.480 Watching it now. 443 00:38:45.539 --> 00:38:47.820 I thought, this is this is quite good. 444 00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:49.679 I quite enjoyed it. 445 00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:53.940 But it is in many people's, like, bottom 2 or three. 446 00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:56.039 It's like this and fear her, isn't it? 447 00:38:56.099 --> 00:38:57.179 Yeah, for her, kill the moon. 448 00:38:57.239 --> 00:38:59.159 I do think like, you know what's funny to me though? 449 00:38:59.219 --> 00:39:02.460 Like, I would have said that before I watched it. 450 00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:08.760 When you guys asked me about which stories I'd like to do, I put a bunch of like awesome stories and I'm like, heck, I'll even do sleep no more. 451 00:39:08.820 --> 00:39:11.940 I'm such a fan of your show that I was just like, I'll just sleep no more. 452 00:39:12.599 --> 00:39:18.059 And then, and then I, I, I instantly, when you came back and said, let's do sleep no more. 453 00:39:18.119 --> 00:39:23.820 I'm like, come on, bottomly, screws me again. someone, too, you know, and that was me. 454 00:39:23.880 --> 00:39:24.480 That was you. 455 00:39:24.539 --> 00:39:25.199 That was awesome. 456 00:39:25.260 --> 00:39:26.039 Thank you, James. 457 00:39:26.099 --> 00:39:28.139 So then I sat down to watch it. 458 00:39:28.199 --> 00:39:29.579 And I was like, you know what? 459 00:39:29.639 --> 00:39:31.619 Like, apologies to Simon. 460 00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:37.739 But I don't think it works, but even though it doesn't work, I still think that the stuff that he's trying. 461 00:39:37.800 --> 00:39:48.000 Like, if I have to be forced to watch this or say Planet of the Dead, which I think cruises along just fine, but is really about nothing. you know, you know what I mean? 462 00:39:48.059 --> 00:39:52.079 Like, it's really just a bust on a desert and it's so vanilla and safe. 463 00:39:52.380 --> 00:39:56.219 You know, it's just, I would actually kind of rather watch this. 464 00:39:56.280 --> 00:40:11.940 To me, the only thing that, that really keeps me from knocking it up to a 7 out of 10 is, is, uh, is the fact that the doctor kind of wobbles around and does some exposition and then leaves going, I'm missing something and I just feel like that's a bit odd. 465 00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:13.500 Can I ask the question? 466 00:40:13.559 --> 00:40:16.739 Do you guys think that this is a completely unreliable narrative? 467 00:40:16.860 --> 00:40:23.820 Do you think that the point of this episode is what we see is not necessarily the adventure that was had? 468 00:40:24.599 --> 00:40:27.659 Does it go that far as a story? 469 00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:30.360 I don't think so. don't think so. 470 00:40:30.420 --> 00:40:32.940 Yeah, it's an interesting way of doing it, but no, they didn't. 471 00:40:32.940 --> 00:40:33.900 I think it would have been great if they did. 472 00:40:33.960 --> 00:40:35.579 Yes, I agree. agree with that. 473 00:40:35.639 --> 00:40:38.039 I think, you know, everything you're seeing is real. 474 00:40:38.099 --> 00:40:43.980 Footage, but it's been edited together to mislead you, but in that sense, it's unreliable, but... 475 00:40:43.980 --> 00:40:47.460 Not to the sort of the verboids kind of extent. 476 00:40:47.460 --> 00:40:48.900 Yeah, no, not to that extent, no. 477 00:40:49.260 --> 00:40:56.460 But I think that, like, I think in a way that's obviously an unanswerable question because all we have access to is the broadcast. 478 00:40:56.519 --> 00:41:05.340 I also think that it's clear that the found footage thing is a late addition because it doesn't go anywhere. 479 00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:09.179 Like, the fact now that Clara is transmitting. 480 00:41:09.239 --> 00:41:13.139 Does that mean that she's been affected by this? 481 00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:14.940 You know, she has... 482 00:41:14.940 --> 00:41:16.079 Well, yes, because she's made the machine. 483 00:41:16.139 --> 00:41:16.619 Yeah. 484 00:41:16.679 --> 00:41:24.179 She's been in the machine, but does that mean that she's going to die, you know, or that she's going to start spouting eye booger men or something? 485 00:41:24.179 --> 00:41:26.400 Like, what even is the outcome? 486 00:41:26.460 --> 00:41:26.880 you know? 487 00:41:26.940 --> 00:41:31.860 So that just seems to be just a thin layer on top of it, like a presentational layer. 488 00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:36.059 The episode doesn't seem to be about the fact that it's found footage. 489 00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:40.139 And so I think that there's just not enough there for that. 490 00:41:40.199 --> 00:41:41.699 I don't think it's unreliable. 491 00:41:41.760 --> 00:41:44.820 I think it is just weird directing it in a slightly different way. 492 00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:47.699 They could have not sold that. 493 00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:50.639 You know, instead of just not dealing with it at all. 494 00:41:50.699 --> 00:41:51.780 They could have not solved that. 495 00:41:51.840 --> 00:42:01.980 Had her dying from the Eyebooger transformation process in Face of Raven and so she's already on borrowed time and chooses to die. 496 00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:03.719 Yeah, no, that would be terrible. 497 00:42:03.780 --> 00:42:04.800 No, it would have been terrible. 498 00:42:05.940 --> 00:42:13.739 The pained look on Simon's face every time someone says hi, booger is really just... 499 00:42:13.739 --> 00:42:19.619 Yes, thank you for that piece of North American culture, but I think we'll revert this as an Australian-based podcast, so we're going to call it sleep, all right? 500 00:42:19.679 --> 00:42:20.699 Well okay. 501 00:42:20.760 --> 00:42:31.079 I'm just saying if this had been made in North American, in the 70s, Robert Holmes would have called it a death to the eye boogers or attack of the eye. would have been great. 502 00:42:31.139 --> 00:42:32.400 Invasion of the eye. 503 00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:34.980 Invasion of the eye. iBook is in space. 504 00:42:35.039 --> 00:42:37.320 Oh, that beat. 505 00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:38.820 Space Space Space Space. 506 00:42:41.400 --> 00:42:42.059 Oh, that is great. 507 00:42:42.179 --> 00:42:43.139 Where is they? 508 00:42:43.199 --> 00:42:44.400 They should have said Space Museum. 509 00:42:44.460 --> 00:42:47.760 Space restaurants, space, champagne, and space. 510 00:42:47.820 --> 00:42:49.320 Oh, I don't know hats. 511 00:42:49.380 --> 00:42:52.079 Yes, just the fact that it falls so flat. 512 00:42:52.139 --> 00:42:53.940 The 3rd choice is so bad. 513 00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:55.380 It's wonderful. 514 00:42:55.440 --> 00:42:56.400 It's just awesome. 515 00:42:56.460 --> 00:43:00.119 And then space pirates get sped immediately and she wins. 516 00:43:00.179 --> 00:43:01.199 It's so good. 517 00:43:01.260 --> 00:43:04.559 And from the podcast that brought you space reasons. 518 00:43:04.619 --> 00:43:09.539 We're doing a show where there's space medicine, space surgeons, space crises. 519 00:43:09.659 --> 00:43:13.920 Space, yeah, space crisis, in, in, like, 7 years. 520 00:43:13.980 --> 00:43:20.579 Yeah, initially I wanted every episode of Maximum Power to space something. excellent. 521 00:43:20.639 --> 00:43:20.820 Okay. 522 00:43:23.880 --> 00:43:25.019 Let's talk about the end, though. 523 00:43:25.079 --> 00:43:35.039 So the doctor says that he doesn't get something and he goes off and then the plan is to go to Triton and destroy all of the Morpheus pods. 524 00:43:35.099 --> 00:43:40.619 So the story doesn't resolve because he never really finds out what's going on. 525 00:43:41.099 --> 00:43:42.840 Is that right? 526 00:43:42.900 --> 00:43:43.980 Yeah, that's effective. 527 00:43:43.980 --> 00:43:45.480 Why does he think he doesn't know what's going on? 528 00:43:45.539 --> 00:43:47.340 I think he's missed the signal. 529 00:43:47.400 --> 00:43:48.659 That's what he's missed. 530 00:43:48.719 --> 00:43:58.739 Yeah, he's missed the explanation by Rasmussen, which is done to camera, which basically says, well, actually, no, you know, I tricked you into this. 531 00:43:58.800 --> 00:44:03.179 The signal is the thing that's converting the sleep in your eye. 532 00:44:03.239 --> 00:44:05.219 Like, you know, I've been transmitting the signal. 533 00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:10.920 The doctor doesn't get that bit thinks that the thing and the pod... 534 00:44:10.920 --> 00:44:12.420 Yeah, is... 535 00:44:12.420 --> 00:44:13.679 Is what's going to transmit... 536 00:44:13.739 --> 00:44:15.960 And so he thinks he's solved that, but actually he's lost. 537 00:44:16.019 --> 00:44:18.659 All those people on Driton are going to die. 538 00:44:18.719 --> 00:44:22.920 No, but not only that, everyone watching this episode of Doctor Who is going to die. 539 00:44:22.980 --> 00:44:23.400 Yeah. 540 00:44:23.400 --> 00:44:24.900 And that's obviously the whole human race. 541 00:44:24.960 --> 00:44:33.480 So this is one of the rare moments and it happens just from time to time in Doctor Who, where the audience is directly threatened by Watts on screen. 542 00:44:33.539 --> 00:44:37.559 And so because we've watched this episode despite being told not to. 543 00:44:37.619 --> 00:44:41.699 That means that all of us are inevitably going to die from watching this. 544 00:44:41.760 --> 00:44:49.260 And I think of, do you remember the moment in the pirate planet where the pirate captain is going to materialise around earth? 545 00:44:49.320 --> 00:44:51.420 And it's kind of like, but that's where I am. 546 00:44:51.539 --> 00:44:52.980 You know, like when I was a kid. 547 00:44:53.639 --> 00:44:55.139 You know? 548 00:44:55.199 --> 00:45:05.460 And also in Dalek's master plan where in real time, the dialects are heading towards Earth and they're going to hit Earth, like on New Year's Day or whatever, when the next episode's broadcast. 549 00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:11.940 And so just every so often, the audience gets threatened by what's happening on Doctor Who and here it is. 550 00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:16.019 You watch this episode and this episode is the episode that kills you. 551 00:45:16.139 --> 00:45:21.539 It's a pretty bold move starting an episode of Doctor Who saying, don't watch this. 552 00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:22.920 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 553 00:45:23.699 --> 00:45:25.500 Yeah, yeah. 554 00:45:25.559 --> 00:45:38.039 And I think that's really good because, like, I like those sort of weird corner cases and stuff, which we can't possibly follow up, but what has actually happened here is the doctor has failed to stop the broadcast. 555 00:45:38.099 --> 00:45:46.380 And so everyone in the 38th century, all of humankind is, according to Rasmussen's plan, all going to die and the doctor didn't stop it. 556 00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:50.159 And not only that, we're all going to die as well because we've watched the episode. 557 00:45:50.219 --> 00:45:52.739 It'll be resolved at some time in the future. 558 00:45:52.800 --> 00:46:02.579 This is like, you know, a different way around you'd have done the 2nd episode where because of something the doctor failed to do years ago, the human race is under threat, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 559 00:46:02.639 --> 00:46:10.199 So I don't mind that unquestioned thing, but also for some reason, I'm not thinking that, you know, everyone's going to dissolve into sleep dust monsters over the course of the next week. 560 00:46:10.260 --> 00:46:16.440 For me, I sort of read it as a more this insidious thing, like the sleep dust monsters are living inside you now. 561 00:46:16.500 --> 00:46:31.800 Like, it's, it's like, it's like aliens, uh, in the, the embryo has been planted in all these people and through the Morpheus machines and, and in some people, it will grow and manifest itself, but in other people, it won't, it'll lay dormant for dozens, 100s, 1000s of years, whatever it is. 562 00:46:31.860 --> 00:46:34.679 That was kind of my chosen reading of it. 563 00:46:34.739 --> 00:46:35.340 I don't know. 564 00:46:35.400 --> 00:46:50.460 Gatus did sort of deliberately leave this on that kind of unresolved cliffhanger because he did think maybe I'll come back to this and we could do a sequel story where we deal with the aftermath of that. 565 00:46:50.519 --> 00:46:52.079 But I actually don't want there to be. 566 00:46:52.139 --> 00:46:53.579 I don't want there to be a resolution. 567 00:46:53.579 --> 00:46:58.079 I think that's the whole point is that I mean, so thank goodness that we didn't. 568 00:46:58.139 --> 00:47:01.019 I compared it when I to Brian when I we were watching it yesterday. 569 00:47:01.079 --> 00:47:12.000 I compared it to Musk, End of Master Man, Draguara, where, you know, the doctor says, the doctor says, oh, the Mandragara helix will be back in lineman in 500 years, which and Sarah goes, but that's the end of the 20th century. 570 00:47:12.059 --> 00:47:15.179 And he says, yes, that was an interesting century. 571 00:47:15.239 --> 00:47:18.480 And the point is, we never see. 572 00:47:18.539 --> 00:47:24.119 It's not like in season 15, there is then a 2nd Master of Mandrago story set in the late 20th century. 573 00:47:24.179 --> 00:47:25.139 You don't need that. 574 00:47:25.199 --> 00:47:28.260 It's just that kind of underlying threat that you've got. 575 00:47:28.320 --> 00:47:30.300 Yeah, and I like story. 576 00:47:30.360 --> 00:47:36.000 I mean, like, it does that in the impossible planet, Satan Pit, too, where they at the end where she says, what was it? 577 00:47:36.059 --> 00:47:38.639 And he goes, I think we beat it and that's good enough for me, right? 578 00:47:38.699 --> 00:47:42.239 And so I do like leaving that unresolved for sure. 579 00:47:42.300 --> 00:47:45.480 And it is bold to start off an episode saying, don't watch this. 580 00:47:45.539 --> 00:47:50.880 The only other person who's ever done that is Eric Sayword, I think, who's implied don't watch this with every story he wrote. 581 00:47:54.539 --> 00:48:09.420 The thing that we haven't mentioned is one of the benefits of it being this found footage thing where so often people are looking down the camera, isn't it great when Capaldi looks into the camera, there's nothing quite like those eyes looking straight at you and talking. 582 00:48:09.480 --> 00:48:11.579 I think that's just a great feature of the episode. 583 00:48:11.639 --> 00:48:12.900 It's wonderful, isn't it? 584 00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:13.679 Absolutely wonderful. 585 00:48:13.739 --> 00:48:22.139 We didn't mention Peep show, which is a show that entirely does this where the camera is always a subjective view of one of the characters. 586 00:48:22.199 --> 00:48:29.940 But yes, having Capaldi deliver the lines directly to camera is just tremendous because he's just so amazingly good. 587 00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:31.559 Yes, so good. 588 00:48:31.619 --> 00:48:46.980 And it's so, um, it's so funny too, because the dialogue's very utilitarian and very functional with everyone, even Rasmussen's narration, which I think is a little on the nose from time to time, but I think it's, he's, it's supposed to be, um, because he's painting a picture. 589 00:48:47.039 --> 00:49:03.719 But the 2nd that Capaldi and Coleman are on screen. the level of banter that just kind of comes up and and there's just a 1000000 funny little jokes and a 1000000 moments that are just, it makes me happy to see them working together. 590 00:49:03.780 --> 00:49:21.059 I just, when they're really sparking and they're not being too antagonistic, but they're working together, it's a great combination, those 2, because they just sparkle and he is great at both intimidating, but also playing with the other supporting characters of the scene. 591 00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:26.699 So he never, like Tom, never dominates to the point where people don't look good. 592 00:49:26.760 --> 00:49:33.360 He always makes them look better because of how much he's, you know, sparking off of them. 593 00:49:33.420 --> 00:49:36.360 So anyways, I just, I couldn't talk enough about Capaldi. 594 00:49:36.420 --> 00:49:37.139 This might be my only chance. 595 00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:38.519 So this is what I'm going to say. 596 00:49:38.579 --> 00:49:40.980 I think he's he's superb. 597 00:49:41.039 --> 00:49:50.519 My, I think has always been that my biggest regret is that the episodes he's given or at least some of the characterisation of his doctor, I just, I just think are wasted. 598 00:49:50.760 --> 00:49:54.480 I think as an actor, as a doctor, I think he's absolutely perfect casting. 599 00:49:54.539 --> 00:49:55.800 I love him to bits. 600 00:49:55.860 --> 00:50:00.599 But Matt Smith, for me, of the modern era is by far and away my favourite by light ears. 601 00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:08.579 Yeah, I love him a lot too. and I think I spent the whole Matt Smith era of FDE saying that he was my favourite doctor. 602 00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:10.619 He is pretty incredible. 603 00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:11.099 Yeah. 604 00:50:11.099 --> 00:50:22.019 I think the thing with Capaldi is that since he was cast, since he's been in it, I said, you know, he is probably one of the best actors to ever play the role. 605 00:50:22.079 --> 00:50:27.719 But until I was rewatching the era for the podcast. 606 00:50:27.780 --> 00:50:34.260 I didn't kind of cement the, actually, no, here's my favourite doctor in this in this role. 607 00:50:34.320 --> 00:50:37.500 Like he is, he just gets it. 608 00:50:37.559 --> 00:50:37.739 Yeah. 609 00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:40.980 I mean, Matt Smith gets it in a different way, and I think that's just incredible. 610 00:50:41.039 --> 00:50:44.159 Just the character contains multitudes, you know? 611 00:50:44.219 --> 00:50:47.219 So, I mean, that's that's it's an actor proof part, right? 612 00:50:47.519 --> 00:50:49.320 Yeah, I think so too. 613 00:50:49.380 --> 00:50:52.019 As long as you bring something to it. 614 00:50:52.079 --> 00:50:55.260 Um, it's just impossible to fail. 615 00:50:55.320 --> 00:50:56.280 It really is. 616 00:50:56.340 --> 00:51:08.400 I can't think of any actor and there have been actors of, uh, greater strength and lesser strength that have taken on the part, but honestly, it's, it's impossible to see, uh, someone who wouldn't get this part. 617 00:51:08.460 --> 00:51:10.079 It's like getting Sherlock Holmes or something. 618 00:51:10.139 --> 00:51:11.760 You know, you just are Hamlet. 619 00:51:11.820 --> 00:51:13.199 You just like, I can grab hold of this. 620 00:51:13.260 --> 00:51:18.000 There's too much to to hold on to to miss on it, you know? 621 00:51:43.739 --> 00:51:47.099 Well, they listener, that's all the time we have for this week. 622 00:51:47.159 --> 00:51:51.659 We'll be back next week to see how Rigsy has been getting on, In Face the Raven. 623 00:51:51.840 --> 00:52:09.480 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us on our website, flightthroughentirety.com, where you'll find all of our social media links, as well as links to our other podcasts, including startling Barbara Bain, maximum power, and untitled Star Trek project. 624 00:52:09.480 --> 00:52:13.500 Until next time, may the gods look favourably upon you. 625 00:52:13.559 --> 00:52:15.300 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 626 00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:16.260 Good night. 627 00:52:16.380 --> 00:52:17.159 Bye bye. 628 00:52:17.219 --> 00:52:18.059 Good night. 629 00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:30.719 That was Flight through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Simon Moore, Jeremy Radick, and James Selwood, theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. 630 00:52:30.780 --> 00:52:37.559 This episode, the cappuccino thing, was recorded on the 17th of September 2023, and released on the 12th of November. 631 00:52:40.619 --> 00:52:45.780 Sleep no more isn't a particularly popular episode, but imagine if Gators are gone with his original idea. 632 00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:53.579 A space station orbiting Neptune, where an evil corporation finds an alarming new way to monetise its employees' blue brakes. 633 00:53:04.440 --> 00:53:10.679 So let's do, let's do, I'm Nathan, I'm James. 634 00:53:10.739 --> 00:53:12.480 I'm Simon, I'm Jeremy. 635 00:53:12.539 --> 00:53:14.159 And I'm Jeremy. 636 00:53:14.219 --> 00:53:15.179 And I'm Jeremy. 637 00:53:15.239 --> 00:53:15.599 That good. 638 00:53:15.659 --> 00:53:17.519 People always forget the anime. 639 00:53:17.579 --> 00:53:19.559 At the end. 640 00:53:19.559 --> 00:53:24.840 Yeah, I even got Eric Stadnick to say at Som Erik in the... 641 00:53:24.840 --> 00:53:25.559 Oh, I'm sure... 642 00:53:25.559 --> 00:53:29.039 Pfizer Pompeii episode where we delivered it in Latin at the beginning. 643 00:53:29.099 --> 00:53:32.039 I'm sure he needed no prompting whatsoever to do. 644 00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:36.840 It's so funny. 645 00:53:36.900 --> 00:53:38.099 I love Eric. 646 00:53:38.159 --> 00:53:38.579 I do too. 647 00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:39.480 So great. 648 00:53:39.539 --> 00:53:40.920 We really need to get him back on. 649 00:53:40.980 --> 00:53:42.840 He and I share a birthday. 650 00:53:42.900 --> 00:53:57.719 I'm exactly 10 years older than him and we also share our birthday with Jenna Coleman and Russell T. Davis and Rose Tyler canonically, according to one of those early annuals that came out. 651 00:53:57.840 --> 00:53:59.579 You know, like. 652 00:53:59.699 --> 00:54:00.719 That sounds like a hell of a podcast. 653 00:54:00.780 --> 00:54:02.340 And Jenna Coleman. 654 00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:03.360 Yeah, imagine that. 655 00:54:03.420 --> 00:54:04.199 Wow. 656 00:54:05.760 --> 00:54:10.199 Russell on saying how marvellous everything is in general and saying how dreadful it was. 657 00:54:10.260 --> 00:54:10.800 Yes. 658 00:54:14.400 --> 00:54:16.619 Okay, all right. 659 00:54:16.679 --> 00:54:22.860 So what we'll do, we'll do the intro and then we'll do the outro and then we can just talk. 660 00:54:22.920 --> 00:54:30.480 The rule is, I don't know if you've noticed the rule, but the rule is that the guest on their 1st appearance on the show gets the title. 661 00:54:30.659 --> 00:54:33.239 So, you know, no pressure. 662 00:54:33.300 --> 00:54:35.219 Remember to say something funny. 663 00:54:38.460 --> 00:54:40.679 It's not that we had last year. 664 00:54:40.679 --> 00:54:43.679 It was Roman of Sherwood, which was fala centric energy. 665 00:54:43.739 --> 00:54:45.960 I know, that's a tough one to beat. 666 00:54:46.199 --> 00:54:48.059 That was pretty good. 667 00:54:48.119 --> 00:54:52.739 I think I had sparking pubic merkins in Zygon invasion. 668 00:54:52.800 --> 00:55:00.000 So I think that that probably has to be that's probably that one chosen, but I haven't chosen any time. 669 00:55:01.199 --> 00:55:07.860 It's sad because my the only problem is that pubic merkin seems to me like... 670 00:55:07.860 --> 00:55:08.639 It's a tortology. 671 00:55:08.699 --> 00:55:11.519 Yeah, yeah, that's right. yeah hat on a hat. 672 00:55:11.579 --> 00:55:13.800 You want the word pubic in there. 673 00:55:15.239 --> 00:55:16.679 Okay. 674 00:55:16.739 --> 00:55:18.000 All right. 675 00:55:18.059 --> 00:55:20.699 It's got our rudest time. pubic weaves. 676 00:55:20.940 --> 00:55:23.820 Rudest title is still kind of lingers. 677 00:55:24.659 --> 00:55:27.179 Which I didn't know was rude. 678 00:55:27.239 --> 00:55:28.679 I didn't even spot it. 679 00:55:30.059 --> 00:55:33.000 They were all going, how come we got away with that? 680 00:55:33.059 --> 00:55:34.980 Nathan let that through anyway. 681 00:55:35.039 --> 00:55:36.480 Like, there's a song. 682 00:55:36.599 --> 00:55:37.380 Yeah, there is a song. 683 00:55:37.440 --> 00:55:41.639 Isn't it from, it's from like, not the 9 o'clock news or something. 684 00:55:41.699 --> 00:55:41.940 Yeah. 685 00:55:41.940 --> 00:55:43.320 All right. 686 00:55:43.380 --> 00:55:44.099 Let's do this thing. 687 00:55:47.219 --> 00:55:54.719 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast that directly affects the sleep centres of your brain. 688 00:55:54.960 --> 00:55:56.699 I'm Nathan. 689 00:55:56.760 --> 00:55:57.539 I'm James. 690 00:55:57.599 --> 00:55:58.440 I'm Simon. 691 00:55:58.500 --> 00:55:59.699 I'm Jeremy. 692 00:56:04.440 --> 00:56:07.440 What happened to the rest of the intro? 693 00:56:10.800 --> 00:56:14.760 Oh, his his his notes haven't updated. 694 00:56:14.820 --> 00:56:15.239 Oh, no. 695 00:56:15.360 --> 00:56:19.260 While you're while you're looking them up. 696 00:56:19.320 --> 00:56:27.420 My nephew's just finished 2020th in the Sydney Marathon with a time of 3 hours and 39 minutes. 697 00:56:27.539 --> 00:56:30.179 That's something. 698 00:56:30.239 --> 00:56:31.320 Out of how many people? 699 00:56:31.380 --> 00:56:32.880 I don't know. 700 00:56:32.940 --> 00:56:40.260 But he's 17, 2020 overall, 1775th out of 12,167 men. 701 00:56:41.039 --> 00:56:42.719 That's pretty good. 702 00:56:42.719 --> 00:56:43.260 That's pretty good. 703 00:56:43.320 --> 00:56:44.880 That's top 10%. 704 00:56:44.940 --> 00:56:46.679 No, top 15%, yeah. 705 00:56:46.739 --> 00:56:48.000 Yeah, for him. 706 00:56:49.019 --> 00:56:51.119 All right, I can't find that. 707 00:56:51.179 --> 00:56:53.579 I'll have to record it later off something. 708 00:56:53.639 --> 00:56:55.619 I'll just leave this set up and we'll be fine. 709 00:56:55.679 --> 00:56:57.659 Like, would it be on your computer? 710 00:56:57.719 --> 00:56:58.380 Could you just ask? 711 00:56:58.440 --> 00:56:59.880 No, I wrote it. 712 00:56:59.940 --> 00:57:00.599 I don't know. 713 00:57:00.659 --> 00:57:01.619 Yeah, maybe it is. 714 00:57:01.739 --> 00:57:03.420 Let me just check. 715 00:57:03.480 --> 00:57:05.280 This happened last time as well, didn't it? 716 00:57:05.280 --> 00:57:06.840 Like the recording, it didn't tell. 717 00:57:06.960 --> 00:57:07.440 Yes, here it is. 718 00:57:07.860 --> 00:57:08.400 Here it is. 719 00:57:08.460 --> 00:57:09.000 Okay, here it goes. 720 00:57:09.960 --> 00:57:19.920 Well, the Blair Witch project was about 15 years ago at this point, so it must be just about time for Doctor Who to use it as a source of inspiration. 721 00:57:19.980 --> 00:57:21.960 Have you got something in your eye? 722 00:57:22.019 --> 00:57:25.199 Let's find out as we discuss sleep no more. 723 00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:27.960 All right. 724 00:57:28.739 --> 00:57:31.019 And now we'll do the outro. 725 00:57:31.079 --> 00:57:32.519 And again, good night in the same order. 726 00:57:32.760 --> 00:57:34.199 Okay. 727 00:57:34.260 --> 00:57:37.199 Well, dear listener, that's all the time we have for this.