WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 14:15:34

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast that just isn't interested in meeting

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new people right now.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd.

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I'm Peter.

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And I'm the UPS battery backup for Clara's pacemaker for this

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one.

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Well, it seems like it was just 4.5 1000000000 years ago that we

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were on Scaro with all of our friends, and now here we are back on

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Gallifre with all of our friends.

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Let's see what we think about everything that happened in between

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in our series 9 retrospective.

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We may have to get started, then.

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I'm tingling for the Todd experience today.

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How about all of you?

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That's herpes.

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It started.

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So on that note, help him, do listener.

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Help me now.

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Snog Mario Void.

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The bone vervoid, the Sandverg void, or the very toothy vervoid.

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Wait, what's the sand verboid?

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The sand creatures from, um, this is sleep no more.

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This is just flashbacks to all those early conventions when we

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weren't too judicious in our affections.

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And the very truthy vervoid is the Maya.

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I think I'm in trouble, whatever decision I make, to be quite

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honest.

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I am going to avoid the bone vervoid, which is the Fisher King

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because I think that's one of the most deplorably bad monsters in

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Doctor Who history.

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But you love those episodes of Trial of a Time Alone.

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I thought you'd be bending over backwards to Bona of Earth.

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Oh, Matron.

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Um, and I guess, ugh, the sleep monsters, again, Jeremy was on

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that episode, and he called them eye boogers, and I just can't

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really get past that.

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There's some new Apple update.

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I may have to avoid them.

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And I think I might also avoid the lamprey head admire because

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they are truly hideous as well.

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So I think I'm avoiding all of them.

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Well, that's probably the correct answer.

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Excellent.

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You know, one of them played a draster and creature from the pit.

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It's true.

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Maya Francis.

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Oh, so naughty.

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Well, I'm going to go to a listener question.

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Oh, which is our good friend Bob Gilby.

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And Bob, Bob.

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Space 1999 reference, Peter, it's not for you.

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It's not been here.

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And I think this is very pertinent to this season.

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Which episode had the best cliffhanger and which had the best

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resolution of its cliffhanger?

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That's good.

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I think if we're counting it as 2 parter, it's got to be heaven

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sent and then hell bent.

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Yeah.

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That is pretty great.

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And do we count as a two-parter?

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I don't know.

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I think that I really like the return to form of the Zygon

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invasion cliffhanger because it reminds me of the aliens of London

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one where just basically everyone's arc hits a sort of big moment

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and so everyone's in peril and that's really fun and that was a

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great idea from Russell, I think, because we weren't going to get

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that many cliffhangers and so you absolutely want to make the ones

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that you get count.

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And I actually do like the resolution we complained that the Zygot

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inversion cheats by having the missile explode off screen over the

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closing credits of the 1st episode and we discovered in the 2nd

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episode it exploded harmlessly in midair.

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So much like this podcast. like this podcast.

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But I think that that was pretty great as well.

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So I'm going to go with that 2 part of having both.

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I mean, I will make a concession to Todd here that I think the

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cliffhanger for under the lake is pretty good.

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Yeah.

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Yep.

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Yes.

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Hashtag justice for under the lake.

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I actually think that that's my favourite cliffhanger.

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Yeah.

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With the doctor floating towards as a ghost.

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I think that's brilliant.

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In terms of a resolution to a cliffhanger.

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It's hard because besides that Zigon 2 part of where they do cheat

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everything else is quite different, you know?

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It's not necessarily a continuation.

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Sure, you've got the face the raven going into heaven scent, but

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that's a whole episode, really.

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That is the resolution of that cliffhanger.

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I do like before the fud where you actually go off onto the

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bootstrap paradox and his playing of the guitar music into the

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credits, which I really like.

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I also do like the witch is familiar, the fact that we get the

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whole explanation of why Missy escaped being zapped and you get

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her big pointy stick.

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So I kind of like that resolution to the cliffhanger, like is just

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something very different.

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I also would like to give props to the end of the girl who died

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where you get the camera going around Maisie Williams and her just

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changing as we watch her.

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So she goes from being like a happy young woman to experiencing

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real sadness to suddenly becoming hard, like becoming kind of

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dangerous in a way that does intrigue you about the next episode

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if you knew that she was in it going in.

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I think.

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It's nice bit of visual grammar that you still don't often get in

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the series.

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No, I thought it was really good.

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Whereas I was less enraptured with that than you when we spoke

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about it.

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And I still think it is a great shot, but in terms of a

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cliffhanger, I'm not sort of like, you know, on the edge of my

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seat.

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It's not quite a cliffhanger.

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But it does, I think this question does bring up very interesting

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about this season with the fact that it's regarded as all these 2

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parties.

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And I kind of think that the production team got it in the head.

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We have to have 2 partters.

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We have to have 2 partters.

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Whereas back in our discussions or your discussions back in

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episode one with Tom, Silsbury saying, it probably would have been

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better to have that 1st to shooter episode as the beginning of the

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season, right?

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Because then you've got to hook into the season.

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Like, I actually think it would have been better if you could have

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still had the Daleks as the 2nd two-parter if you wanted it.

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That completely changed my understanding and viewing and enjoyment

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of this season, Todd.

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I absolutely agree.

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If that had been split, and we'd had Maisie, light and soft and

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fun with Uncle Rufus.

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In the 1st episode, it would have been a joyful New Year thing to

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well, it started later in the year, didn't it?

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But a fun thing to start with and then wait for the descent of

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tone down to the end of the year.

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It would have been great.

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Yeah, it was a silly thing to do.

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I actually think that having the 2 episodes right next to one

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another works because that makes the contrast more shocking.

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I think that then we get to wait for Face the Raven and then we

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get to wait again for Hellbent.

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So she is spread throughout the season.

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I think that the reason that we get the Dialect 2 part of 1st is

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that Moffat just could not bear to leave Missy in the toy box for

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one more episode.

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And you're right, you know, who knows what maybe Peter knows what

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the production order and considerations actually were and perhaps

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you know, they felt under the lake 1st and then went into the

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opening 2 parter.

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Okay, because you're looking at it thinking, come on, we've got

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Michelle.

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We've got this amazing location.

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We've got Jenna being suspended, you know, on a gurney.

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I mean, who's not going to want to watch this?

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I think creatively that might have been a nice idea what Tom was

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suggesting.

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But I just don't think it's that strong as a season arc.

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I don't think the story of a shoulder slash me is that

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interesting.

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And so I don't think I really would have enjoyed it being spread

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over a greater distance or more episodes.

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I think it works as a secondary arc, I think, quite well.

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And it's structured as an axle pin.

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I mean, arc.

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Yeah, dark, bite me.

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But she actually is the universal joint in this.

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Yeah.

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So, yes, I agree with you with you all.

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Perhaps episode 3 could have been Silda's 1st and then we could

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have had later on the season as it darkens because as we've, as no

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right at the end of all time and space, there's Maisie Bloody

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Williams, Welshing it up.

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It's not just fear of a Welsh planet anymore, is it?

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Fear of a Welsh universe.

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Absolutely right.

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I guess I'm kind of coming from a ratings perspective because her

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1st episode is the highest rated episode of the season.

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And the other one, obviously, is the 1st episode of the season.

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So I kind of think, well, had it been the 1st episode with her

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then there might have been that hook into it because, like, the

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other arc that we've got, which is the hybrid, really isn't

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introduced until episode 2 rather than episode one.

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So I kind of think there would have been a great hook in terms of

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having her front and centre and then going into the Daleks and

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Missy.

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I mean, I don't know if it would work in terms of sequencing.

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And of course, the other thing is, you know, Michelle was very

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much in demand.

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I think she was going off to film Sabrina pretty much straight

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away.

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Right.

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After that.

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So she's missing for some time.

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No, I just think it's interesting to sort of think about, you know

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the fact that there's all these two partisans sort of locked into

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this sequence, the shorter stuff could have come earlier, you

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could have moved under the lake before the flood because it's got

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nothing to do with any arc.

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No. you know, to the next slot.

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You know, if you wanted a 12 punch of having the master and the

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Daleks and then having a big guest star.

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An uncharitable reading of all of the 2 parties in this season is

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that they simply wanted less story ideas to have to come up with

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and workshop.

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I think I made that point.

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I mean, it's funny to me at that point.

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I don't necessarily think it's the case.

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I think there was an artistic concern here, and as we've said, many

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times, Moth that always reacts against what's come before.

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And so we've had single episode runs for most of the last 3

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seasons and so he might do something different.

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I do, unfortunately, think that it contributes to this season

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feeling a little bit tired.

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I don't think it's I don't think it's directly causally related

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but I just think the change in pacing makes it feel a little bit

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more languid at the same time as the series doesn't feel like it's

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firing on all cylinders.

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I don't think the individual episode quality is what it was last

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year or the year before.

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Not by much, just by a little bit.

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And so the whole thing makes the series feel just that little bit

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more laboured, even though it still is rather good.

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I think when it's good too, it's a bit exhausting.

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I mean, that's part of the problem.

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There's a kind of bleakness to it.

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And I'm not talking about the obvious ones like Heaven Sent and

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Hell Band.

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But even the Zygon 2 parter, which I think is good and

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interesting.

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It does something, the Doctor Who hasn't attempted before builds

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off its own mythology a little bit.

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You know, like I think it is pretty good, but it's not fun.

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Like, it's just not quite as much fun as the show has been.

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The most unabashedly fun episode is the girl who died.

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Yeah, 0 yeah.

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I think that is fun.

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Well, just the title alone.

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Are we back to Mr. Moffat's, because, you know, he doesn't mind

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being called Mr. Moffat or Stephen, take on writing and what was

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going on with Sherlock at the time, is that was still happening

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because, okay, that was done.

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But there's that swings and roundabout survivor, it's manic and

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intense, and a cat in a breeder's dog kennel, and or it really

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00:12:47.220 --> 00:12:49.679
goes to what is my darkest place. a writer.

252
00:12:49.740 --> 00:12:50.279
Yeah.

253
00:12:50.340 --> 00:12:54.720
I guess what you're all touching on is another listener question

254
00:12:54.720 --> 00:13:01.259
from Brian says, Brian with a Y at Brian 1981, he says this.

255
00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:02.519
I think the series is brilliant.

256
00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:06.120
But why do so many people say this is the series they started to

257
00:13:06.120 --> 00:13:07.559
lose interest in the show?

258
00:13:08.100 --> 00:13:11.279
And I think it does come back to a number of factors.

259
00:13:11.340 --> 00:13:16.139
I think you do have I'm exhausted by the end of the season, right?

260
00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:18.960
I'm literally really, really tired.

261
00:13:19.019 --> 00:13:23.039
Like there's a lot of heavy work to do, either in terms of the

262
00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:26.580
storytelling and unpacking stuff, or the actual just heaviness of

263
00:13:26.580 --> 00:13:31.980
having your companion dying and having to get her back to a living

264
00:13:31.980 --> 00:13:32.340
state.

265
00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:35.100
And I just find from the zygons onwards.

266
00:13:35.159 --> 00:13:38.399
I find it really, not to say that it isn't brilliant.

267
00:13:38.460 --> 00:13:41.519
I actually probably like this season a lot more than you do, Peter

268
00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:45.720
because I absolutely love under the lake and before the flood.

269
00:13:45.779 --> 00:13:49.679
The only episodes that I don't like as much are the woman who

270
00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:53.100
lived, which I think is a bit of a turkey in the 2nd half, and

271
00:13:53.100 --> 00:13:56.399
sleep no more, which I think is a brave experiment, and I don't

272
00:13:56.399 --> 00:13:57.840
really dislike it, but I find it tough.

273
00:13:57.899 --> 00:14:01.320
You see all the others, I think, are as good as last season, if

274
00:14:01.320 --> 00:14:01.980
not better.

275
00:14:02.039 --> 00:14:05.519
And I think it is actually, when I'm watching these things, all

276
00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:08.279
these episodes, and I've spoken about them, how many of them, I'm

277
00:14:08.279 --> 00:14:09.659
giving more than 8 out of 10 to.

278
00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:13.559
And when I do that, it means that I really am thinking these are

279
00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:15.659
well-acted well-written.

280
00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:18.419
I'm really engaged, but I just get tired.

281
00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:22.799
And I think the other thing, and Brendan said this, is that the

282
00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:24.840
series, Arc, isn't fun.

283
00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:28.980
You don't have a fun concept, like front and centre, you know, and

284
00:14:28.980 --> 00:14:33.360
I think after 7 or 8 seasons of any show, people begin to say, are

285
00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:35.700
you repeating yourself, no matter what you're doing, whether it be

286
00:14:35.700 --> 00:14:36.539
comedy or whatever.

287
00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:42.179
And I think here, you've got, you know, eight, 9 seasons in

288
00:14:42.179 --> 00:14:44.399
Steven's done how many seasons, you know?

289
00:14:44.460 --> 00:14:46.860
Yeah, so five, six, seven, eight, nine.

290
00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:50.159
And you've got the same, when we've talked about this, the same

291
00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:51.779
regular cast coming back.

292
00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:54.299
There's no new cast per se.

293
00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:58.679
So as brilliant as it is, perhaps people are starting to get

294
00:14:58.679 --> 00:14:58.980
tired.

295
00:14:59.340 --> 00:15:04.139
I think there's a tendency for someone like Stephen Moffat in

296
00:15:04.139 --> 00:15:07.080
particular to start to analyse the show.

297
00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:09.120
And he's done it always, I think.

298
00:15:09.179 --> 00:15:13.679
He may be more than Russell is the one who analyses what it means

299
00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:17.039
to be the doctor and, you know, what the doctor's character is.

300
00:15:17.100 --> 00:15:20.940
And like even, do you remember the moment at the beginning of the

301
00:15:20.940 --> 00:15:25.320
empty child where Rose wanders off and the doctor reflects on the

302
00:15:25.320 --> 00:15:26.879
fact that they always wander off.

303
00:15:26.940 --> 00:15:31.080
You know, the doctors, Moffat's doctor is the one who's most aware

304
00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:34.679
of what sort of show he's in and what the rules are.

305
00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:40.919
And so this season seems to me to be very much focussed on that.

306
00:15:40.980 --> 00:15:42.480
It's not outward looking.

307
00:15:42.539 --> 00:15:45.659
We have very, very few guest stars.

308
00:15:45.779 --> 00:15:48.000
Basically, you've got missy.

309
00:15:48.059 --> 00:15:49.440
You've got all of these people back.

310
00:15:49.500 --> 00:15:52.740
You know, you've got Missy, you've got Oheila, you have a shoulder

311
00:15:52.740 --> 00:15:54.659
in a bunch of episodes.

312
00:15:54.720 --> 00:16:00.659
And we have very, very small cast, with maybe the exception of the

313
00:16:00.659 --> 00:16:02.820
Zygon 2 pada.

314
00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:07.320
And so it all just seems to be about itself in a way that's

315
00:16:07.320 --> 00:16:14.519
designed to appeal to me, but isn't designed to appeal to a broad

316
00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:15.419
audience.

317
00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:17.100
Has anyone asked her if she liked it?

318
00:16:17.159 --> 00:16:20.879
But even in the side on two-party, you've got Kate, you've got

319
00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:23.940
Osgood back, and Jenna's playing the main villain.

320
00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:24.659
Yeah, yeah.

321
00:16:24.659 --> 00:16:25.980
Like, you don't have new faces.

322
00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:30.779
Like, you do have some, but it's still a core for people. that

323
00:16:30.779 --> 00:16:31.379
we've seen before.

324
00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:34.080
It's also a production thing, I think.

325
00:16:34.379 --> 00:16:39.059
The palate of the season is darker and colder.

326
00:16:39.179 --> 00:16:42.899
There's nothing that's really kind of bright or enjoyable in the

327
00:16:42.899 --> 00:16:43.139
season.

328
00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:44.879
Yeah, it's funny, isn't it?

329
00:16:44.940 --> 00:16:48.360
We complained, I think, at some point in series 6 where there are

330
00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:52.440
a whole bunch of episodes that were set at night and it was like

331
00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:55.620
oh my god, you know, is someone ever going to turn the lights on?

332
00:16:55.679 --> 00:16:58.919
It's sort of around night terrors and stuff where everything is

333
00:16:58.919 --> 00:16:59.220
dark.

334
00:16:59.340 --> 00:17:04.500
Here, everything is a bit gray and brown, like, and I think the

335
00:17:04.500 --> 00:17:08.819
magician's apprentice sets the tone for that.

336
00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:13.500
And I guess it's, you know, perhaps in the 21st shield of things

337
00:17:13.500 --> 00:17:14.880
there's a little bit of colour.

338
00:17:14.940 --> 00:17:18.420
But yeah, there is something a bit drab about it as well.

339
00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:23.039
Yeah, maybe when I said tired before, it's not quite that, it

340
00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:26.579
feels a little bit drab, and I don't think that's necessarily in

341
00:17:26.579 --> 00:17:30.119
the storytelling, I think it's a cumulative effect, and it's also

342
00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:32.759
a cumulative effect of the fact that we've been watching this

343
00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:38.039
series for 9 seasons now, and we know its tricks a little bit.

344
00:17:38.099 --> 00:17:38.700
Yeah.

345
00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:55.259
DJ Alpha T says, Did Clara stay too long?

346
00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:59.279
Is the hybrid concept too nebulous to work as a series arc?

347
00:17:59.400 --> 00:18:02.099
It's an odd arc, isn't it?

348
00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:06.900
And I think it has to be designed in retrospect, because the whole

349
00:18:06.900 --> 00:18:10.680
season is about sort of finally dislodging Jenna from the

350
00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:11.160
program.

351
00:18:11.220 --> 00:18:13.619
And so that's why the...

352
00:18:13.619 --> 00:18:17.519
As if she's a stone in her shoe, carbuncle or a winkle that just

353
00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:18.839
won't get out of its shell.

354
00:18:18.900 --> 00:18:20.400
Look, I could go on.

355
00:18:20.460 --> 00:18:24.240
Unlike many people, I actually like Jenna and I like Clara.

356
00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:26.099
I love her performance. love it.

357
00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:26.460
Yeah.

358
00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:29.819
And I don't think she stays too long.

359
00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:31.019
She just...

360
00:18:31.019 --> 00:18:31.920
Sarah Jane was longer?

361
00:18:31.980 --> 00:18:34.740
Yeah, Sarah Jane was longer. to be the new Jess Sarah J, you

362
00:18:34.740 --> 00:18:34.920
know.

363
00:18:34.980 --> 00:18:38.160
And like, I don't think we need to change the companion every

364
00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:39.299
year.

365
00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:42.299
And I don't think Russell ever intended to change the cast with

366
00:18:42.299 --> 00:18:43.019
such frequency.

367
00:18:43.140 --> 00:18:47.339
I thought that he expected to have Chris and Billy for a while.

368
00:18:47.819 --> 00:18:53.819
But it does turn out that introducing new characters does give the

369
00:18:53.819 --> 00:19:00.059
show a shot in the arm and introducing the concept of the show to

370
00:19:00.059 --> 00:19:03.839
a new person, having a new companion come along who has to see the

371
00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:07.440
TARDIS and learn about it and learn who the doctor is, prevents

372
00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:10.319
the show from kind of vanishing up its own fundament.

373
00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:14.700
And we aren't, um, we haven't done any of that for ages.

374
00:19:14.759 --> 00:19:19.319
And because Clara had such a run-up as well, we didn't get a clean

375
00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:21.180
version of that for Clara either.

376
00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:24.900
Moffat compensates for the fact that he's not introducing new cast

377
00:19:24.900 --> 00:19:28.920
members by, as has been quite well discussed, making a slightly

378
00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:30.240
different Clara each season.

379
00:19:30.299 --> 00:19:33.000
I think that would have worked much better if we'd had that

380
00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:37.079
slightly nebulous, impossible girl version of her where she was

381
00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:41.759
just a generic companion with a big twist behind her, who he then

382
00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:45.240
added colour and depth and a love story and something really

383
00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:50.759
interesting to series 8, where she's the best that she is, but

384
00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:52.740
then he feels the need to do something different with her again

385
00:19:52.740 --> 00:19:54.720
when she's back for another season.

386
00:19:54.779 --> 00:19:57.180
And I think that that might undermine the character a little bit.

387
00:19:57.240 --> 00:20:00.960
I mean, I think giving the character a season-long arc isn't a bad

388
00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:01.259
one.

389
00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:04.619
I'm surprised that it isn't explicitly linked to Danny's deaf.

390
00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:09.000
But we've also talked about how it's actually not that enjoyable

391
00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:12.960
to see that principal relationship between the doctor and his

392
00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:14.880
companion problematized in that way.

393
00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:20.039
Like in series eight, there's friction between them, but they're

394
00:20:20.039 --> 00:20:21.240
getting on.

395
00:20:21.299 --> 00:20:24.359
And it is starting to get her to do bad things, isn't it?

396
00:20:24.420 --> 00:20:26.460
She lies to Danny and she sneaks around and stuff.

397
00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:30.000
So the relationship becomes a problem and it starts to be

398
00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:31.920
expressed in terms of an addiction.

399
00:20:31.980 --> 00:20:33.900
And then we really lean into that.

400
00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:37.200
And, you know, the relationship ends up being the thing that gets

401
00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:37.920
her killed.

402
00:20:37.980 --> 00:20:40.980
And that's drama, do you know what I mean?

403
00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:42.359
Bad things happen to the characters.

404
00:20:42.420 --> 00:20:46.380
It's drama, but compare it to Russell, who makes sure that with

405
00:20:46.380 --> 00:20:50.880
the exception of Donna, everyone leaves the show better than when

406
00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:51.900
they started.

407
00:20:51.900 --> 00:20:54.059
And even Donna gets to win the lottery.

408
00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:56.400
So yeah, Adam's got the stuff in his head.

409
00:20:56.460 --> 00:20:58.680
Yeah, Adam's got a big thing in his head, the whole thing

410
00:20:58.740 --> 00:20:59.700
everyone's much better off.

411
00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:03.779
It's funny because it changes with Clara. doesn't it?

412
00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:04.980
Where in series 8.

413
00:21:05.099 --> 00:21:07.859
The fact that she's going off with the doctor is shown to be

414
00:21:07.859 --> 00:21:10.619
something fun and the problem exists between her and the people

415
00:21:10.619 --> 00:21:12.240
she's left behind, like Danny.

416
00:21:12.299 --> 00:21:15.900
It flips on a dime in series 9 and becomes the problem that she's

417
00:21:15.900 --> 00:21:17.880
going off with the doctor enjoying it too much is the problem.

418
00:21:17.940 --> 00:21:20.039
Yeah, it's a bit weird, isn't it?

419
00:21:20.099 --> 00:21:21.839
We never want that to be the problem in Doc 2.

420
00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:26.220
It's strange reflecting on this because I commented a long time

421
00:21:26.220 --> 00:21:32.339
ago how I felt that the Clara character got progressively worse as

422
00:21:32.339 --> 00:21:35.880
the series went on and my favourite was always the snowman one.

423
00:21:35.940 --> 00:21:39.059
But I have a completely different take on that now.

424
00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:41.700
I actually think the Impossible Girl.

425
00:21:41.819 --> 00:21:44.339
One is the weakest character by far, and I actually really enjoyed

426
00:21:44.339 --> 00:21:48.599
last season's Clara immensely with that relationship with Danny.

427
00:21:48.660 --> 00:21:53.579
And I was concerned about this season that I wouldn't like where

428
00:21:53.579 --> 00:21:55.619
it went with her and what she was doing.

429
00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:58.319
And I actually think that I've liked it a lot more.

430
00:21:58.380 --> 00:22:01.079
And Jenna's been phenomenal.

431
00:22:01.140 --> 00:22:03.660
I guess it's only in the last few episodes where it's all

432
00:22:03.660 --> 00:22:07.920
resonating about her death that I get a little bit sort of like

433
00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:10.200
I'm over this whole thing.

434
00:22:10.259 --> 00:22:13.440
Just let's just wrap it up, which is not her fault by any means.

435
00:22:13.500 --> 00:22:16.980
It was interesting to hear, I think it was Simon say, perhaps, you

436
00:22:16.980 --> 00:22:20.039
know, having an alternative companion or a semi-regular, like

437
00:22:20.039 --> 00:22:23.519
Rigsy or something to go along with what was happening with Clara

438
00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:28.980
may have been more enjoyable or a bit more fun or a better way

439
00:22:28.980 --> 00:22:30.059
into what was happening.

440
00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:33.539
I do think that some of her behaviours are related to Danny's

441
00:22:33.539 --> 00:22:36.299
death and a reflection on that, and I think it is mentioned

442
00:22:36.299 --> 00:22:39.599
perhaps once early on and then sort of not mentioned sort of

443
00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:39.960
again.

444
00:22:40.019 --> 00:22:44.519
We could have had Shona, like as a secondary companion getting

445
00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:47.460
introduced, you know, I think that would have been good, but back

446
00:22:47.460 --> 00:22:50.460
to what we're saying about, about, did Clara stage wrong?

447
00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:51.119
I don't think so.

448
00:22:51.180 --> 00:22:52.559
I actually don't think so, no.

449
00:22:52.619 --> 00:22:53.940
I don't think she did stay too long.

450
00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:58.319
It was just the character beats where she ended up like at the end

451
00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:03.240
of last season, has organically developed into what happened this

452
00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:03.480
season.

453
00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:05.940
If she'd left at the end of the last season.

454
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:07.259
I would have been quite fine with that.

455
00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:11.460
There are undeniable pluses to having a character with longevity

456
00:23:11.460 --> 00:23:12.180
and weight to them.

457
00:23:12.299 --> 00:23:15.599
So I think those scenes in Face the Raven, where she's saying

458
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:20.039
goodbye to the doctor because she's gone too far and he can't fix

459
00:23:20.039 --> 00:23:20.339
it.

460
00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:25.859
He can't save her, are given extra drama and emotional weight

461
00:23:25.859 --> 00:23:28.380
because of the fact that we have known Clara for so long and

462
00:23:28.380 --> 00:23:31.680
because it has to be said, Jenna is such a good actress.

463
00:23:32.579 --> 00:23:35.700
Well, I mean, I think those scenes are extraordinary.

464
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:38.759
Not that I come back and want to watch them every single day, but

465
00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:40.920
when I watch them, I am always blown away.

466
00:23:40.980 --> 00:23:43.500
And I like all the stuff after that, even when she has to go out

467
00:23:43.500 --> 00:23:47.579
onto the street and all the way in which all of that is filmed.

468
00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:51.359
Like, I really, really, I don't think it's overdone.

469
00:23:51.420 --> 00:23:56.700
I felt, tell me what you think that, um, well, Jenna Coleman

470
00:23:56.700 --> 00:24:02.160
speaks of her audition, and it was early in the casting of Clara

471
00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:04.920
that she was asked to perform 3 different parts.

472
00:24:04.980 --> 00:24:08.460
And I'm getting that Stephen Moffatt in the way that he thinks.

473
00:24:08.519 --> 00:24:11.220
And you know he's sitting down at, what, 2 in the morning, and

474
00:24:11.220 --> 00:24:16.140
it's still, he's there on his peloton, and he's still riding as if

475
00:24:16.140 --> 00:24:19.619
he's got 30 seconds to get it in, and that's, so to speak.

476
00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:23.579
And that's exactly how he how he functions that observing her

477
00:24:23.579 --> 00:24:27.240
abilities and the way that she's expanded the part and also been

478
00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:30.900
quite introspective with the part and really gone into the

479
00:24:30.900 --> 00:24:33.660
interiority of Clara that he's just got, okay, I'm going to throw

480
00:24:33.660 --> 00:24:34.200
this at you.

481
00:24:34.259 --> 00:24:36.000
Okay, let's throw this at you.

482
00:24:36.059 --> 00:24:39.539
And I know that he and Mark Gaitis would have sat there and go

483
00:24:39.539 --> 00:24:43.079
just how far do you want to go with this character?

484
00:24:43.140 --> 00:24:43.859
Just what can we do?

485
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:48.779
It was almost a little darker manipulative from the writer's point

486
00:24:48.779 --> 00:24:52.380
of view, in the way that Sarah Jane also suffered, such as in

487
00:24:52.380 --> 00:24:55.680
Brain of Morbius, there was just this thing of, well, look, she's

488
00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:56.039
so great.

489
00:24:56.099 --> 00:24:58.619
Let's see what other idea we can put it through.

490
00:24:58.680 --> 00:25:03.119
Yeah, I think I remember us complaining around about the sort of

491
00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:08.700
season 6 retrospective, about how cruel morphities to the

492
00:25:08.700 --> 00:25:13.200
companions, to the regulars and how that undermines them in some

493
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:13.380
way.

494
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:15.359
To be fair, not just the girls.

495
00:25:15.420 --> 00:25:16.259
No, no.

496
00:25:16.319 --> 00:25:17.099
No, no.

497
00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:22.500
But I think that the takeaway, and this doesn't make the

498
00:25:22.500 --> 00:25:28.200
intervening episodes anymore pleasant or satisfying is that she is

499
00:25:28.200 --> 00:25:29.400
allowed to be the doctor at the end.

500
00:25:29.460 --> 00:25:32.160
The doctor says to her in Face the Raven.

501
00:25:32.220 --> 00:25:35.279
It's not just because I'm the doctor that I can do these things.

502
00:25:35.339 --> 00:25:37.259
I'm just less breakable than you.

503
00:25:37.319 --> 00:25:40.740
You know, the doctor would have regenerated in that situation

504
00:25:40.740 --> 00:25:44.099
because he's the hero and the star of the show.

505
00:25:44.160 --> 00:25:48.240
So you can put the doctor in a situation where he gives his life

506
00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:51.960
to save someone, like he does to Will.

507
00:25:52.019 --> 00:25:55.259
You can't do that with Jana.

508
00:25:55.319 --> 00:25:59.279
And so Jenna is rescued from that and allowed to be the doctor and

509
00:25:59.279 --> 00:25:59.880
that's fine.

510
00:25:59.940 --> 00:26:01.859
We' not worried about her anymore.

511
00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:06.599
In fact, there's that final shot where you see the diner go, I've

512
00:26:06.599 --> 00:26:08.519
been one direction, the TARDIS go off in the other direction.

513
00:26:08.579 --> 00:26:12.119
This so reminds me of the scene in the chase with the Dartist.

514
00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:14.039
But it's kind...

515
00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:17.759
It's kind of like, okay, we'll follow the Tartars.

516
00:26:17.819 --> 00:26:20.759
It'll be fine, you know, but you kind of think it would actually

517
00:26:20.759 --> 00:26:24.240
also be quite fun to see what Maisie and Jenna got up to.

518
00:26:24.299 --> 00:26:25.799
It's their own dadist.

519
00:26:25.859 --> 00:26:26.940
Diner Tardis.

520
00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:27.599
That's right.

521
00:26:28.380 --> 00:26:32.220
I guess the thing is that it's only in hindsight, you can sort of

522
00:26:32.220 --> 00:26:36.059
say, because Peter Capaldion does one more season, right?

523
00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:39.000
You got to think, oh, I wish that he had more time with other

524
00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:39.299
people.

525
00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:43.019
Like, because 2 years have taken up with Clara, I feel that

526
00:26:43.019 --> 00:26:45.839
perhaps from a character point of view, if she'd left at the

527
00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:48.000
Christmas special last year, then that would have given the

528
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:52.079
opportunity for someone new, something fresh to come in, see a

529
00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:53.099
different dynamic with him.

530
00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:58.079
But I don't want that sort of what if to take away from what is

531
00:26:58.079 --> 00:27:01.559
what is there, which is essentially great performances, great

532
00:27:01.559 --> 00:27:05.519
character driven plots and some really brilliant episodes.

533
00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:19.559
So, on that note, Snog, marry, avoid.

534
00:27:19.559 --> 00:27:22.079
Bonnie, a shielder, or Jack?

535
00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:27.420
Okay, so Bonnie is Zigon Clara, a shielder is a shielder.

536
00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:32.759
Jack is the woman with the very posh voice who is unit scientific

537
00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:38.700
advisor in the 1st episode and then she gets killed by the and

538
00:27:38.700 --> 00:27:41.279
she's actually pretty fabulous, I think, and she gets killed by

539
00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:42.900
the Zygons.

540
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:45.180
All right, so Jack from Bugs.

541
00:27:45.420 --> 00:27:48.720
I think I would Snowkirk, she's pretty cool.

542
00:27:48.779 --> 00:27:52.440
I think I would definitely avoid Maisie Williams because she's

543
00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:52.859
underage.

544
00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:54.420
She can't snog or marry.

545
00:27:54.599 --> 00:27:56.519
And who was the other one?

546
00:27:56.579 --> 00:27:57.660
Bonnie.

547
00:27:57.660 --> 00:27:58.200
Bonnie.

548
00:27:58.259 --> 00:27:58.799
Bonnie.

549
00:27:58.859 --> 00:28:02.279
Well, I would definitely snog any Bonnie. anyone called Bonnie, I

550
00:28:02.279 --> 00:28:02.819
would snog.

551
00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:05.819
It's like Brendan's in the room.

552
00:28:06.660 --> 00:28:08.339
Very.

553
00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:11.759
So, um, the hybrid.

554
00:28:11.819 --> 00:28:14.460
Was it Tunebulusa concept?

555
00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:17.279
Do we think it was just the doctor and Clara?

556
00:28:17.339 --> 00:28:18.119
Oh, yeah.

557
00:28:18.180 --> 00:28:19.500
It has to be the doctor and Clara.

558
00:28:19.559 --> 00:28:20.160
What else could it be?

559
00:28:20.220 --> 00:28:21.779
It has to be the doctor, Clara.

560
00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:25.380
And so there's something sort of a bit ludicrously comic.

561
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:29.640
I think about the way that we keep bringing the hybrid up and you

562
00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:33.720
kind of go, ooh, well, is it the Daleks and the doctor?

563
00:28:33.779 --> 00:28:35.819
Is it the doctor and missy?

564
00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:36.299
Is it?

565
00:28:37.140 --> 00:28:37.680
Yeah, yeah.

566
00:28:37.740 --> 00:28:40.980
Is it Maisie Williams and that little thing in her head?

567
00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:45.180
Like, it's all kind of ludicrous.

568
00:28:45.240 --> 00:28:50.099
And there is also, like Moffat here helps himself to a change in

569
00:28:50.099 --> 00:28:55.140
the mythos, which hasn't stuck, but the idea that the doctor

570
00:28:55.140 --> 00:28:58.140
leaves Gallifrey, not because he's bored, but because he's scared

571
00:28:58.140 --> 00:29:01.619
and perhaps scared of what he becomes.

572
00:29:01.619 --> 00:29:04.740
Because that's not as interesting as leaving because you're

573
00:29:04.740 --> 00:29:04.920
bored.

574
00:29:04.980 --> 00:29:10.019
No, although I do like the, you know, you don't run so far and so

575
00:29:10.019 --> 00:29:11.700
fast if you're merely bored.

576
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:13.619
And I thought that was...

577
00:29:13.619 --> 00:29:16.920
But I thought that that was a good reinterpretation thing.

578
00:29:16.980 --> 00:29:20.640
We talk about how Moffatt sees something in the show and then

579
00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:25.319
reinterprets it and that his own episodes tend to kind of focus

580
00:29:25.319 --> 00:29:29.099
around or pivot on a reinterpretation of something that we thought

581
00:29:29.099 --> 00:29:30.720
we understood, but didn't.

582
00:29:30.779 --> 00:29:32.880
So that's that's Moffat Shtick.

583
00:29:32.940 --> 00:29:33.660
That's his trick.

584
00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:37.680
And I, you know, like, I'm not a big fan of helping yourself to

585
00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:40.980
the mythos in that way, but it hasn't really stuck.

586
00:29:40.980 --> 00:29:42.960
See the timeless children.

587
00:29:43.019 --> 00:29:46.259
Yeah, well, I think that that's the most egregious example of it

588
00:29:46.259 --> 00:29:47.880
after the war games.

589
00:29:50.099 --> 00:29:52.079
So, I don't know.

590
00:29:52.140 --> 00:29:56.819
It is a pretty thin season arc, but we maybe don't need season

591
00:29:56.819 --> 00:29:57.599
arcs.

592
00:29:57.660 --> 00:29:58.319
It's probably okay.

593
00:29:58.619 --> 00:30:02.099
I mean, the elephant in the room, I think, with the whole season

594
00:30:02.099 --> 00:30:05.339
arc is Maisie Williams and we've touched on this in previous

595
00:30:05.339 --> 00:30:08.460
episodes, although I wasn't on any of her earlier episodes.

596
00:30:08.700 --> 00:30:13.319
People tend, I think maybe when they don't like a shoulder, they

597
00:30:13.319 --> 00:30:15.779
tend to point at Maisie's performance and say there was an

598
00:30:15.779 --> 00:30:16.380
upscratch.

599
00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:19.319
I don't think it's a particularly great performance.

600
00:30:19.380 --> 00:30:22.319
I think maybe you needed someone with more star power and more

601
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:25.019
experience to anchor a role like that, to make it more of an event

602
00:30:25.019 --> 00:30:26.220
when me turns up.

603
00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:30.240
But I think it's also, it's slightly odd casting.

604
00:30:30.299 --> 00:30:33.119
She's doing the best that she can, because very rarely do you have

605
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:37.559
someone who starts as a young person and then grows older, be it

606
00:30:37.559 --> 00:30:42.240
physically or intellectually, and you cast them as a young person

607
00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:44.099
and then make them grow older.

608
00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:47.279
You tend to cast someone who's older and looks younger, and then

609
00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:48.660
allow them to grow into the role.

610
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:50.220
So she was very young.

611
00:30:50.279 --> 00:30:51.059
She was 17.

612
00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:54.779
I also think there's a thing about direction because actors don't

613
00:30:54.779 --> 00:30:55.680
work in a vacuum.

614
00:30:55.740 --> 00:30:59.880
And I think once you hit Hellbent and Maisie is in the hands of

615
00:30:59.880 --> 00:31:02.819
Rachel Tallale, the performance is all there.

616
00:31:02.940 --> 00:31:04.140
She's great, isn't she?

617
00:31:04.200 --> 00:31:06.299
She is great in that episode.

618
00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:09.599
And have you noticed how they keep Rachel for the very, very best

619
00:31:09.720 --> 00:31:10.559
bits.

620
00:31:10.619 --> 00:31:14.700
I did have a vision of Barbara Eden, just then when you said

621
00:31:14.700 --> 00:31:16.259
actors working in a vacuum.

622
00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:19.799
I thought you could actually suck her up and put it, but it's

623
00:31:19.799 --> 00:31:21.480
funny because I had an image of Barbara Bane.

624
00:31:21.539 --> 00:31:23.099
Bob, Bob, Bob.

625
00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:24.180
Just keep still, junch.

626
00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:32.400
I also think Macy's really good in Face the Raven as well.

627
00:31:32.460 --> 00:31:33.240
Yeah, yeah.

628
00:31:33.299 --> 00:31:34.680
I think it...

629
00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:38.220
Yeah, I don't think it shows you when you get proper film level

630
00:31:38.220 --> 00:31:40.859
team behind you.

631
00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:42.359
We've already got the writer.

632
00:31:42.420 --> 00:31:46.140
We've already got the producers, we already have the actors, but

633
00:31:46.140 --> 00:31:49.079
when you get the director, Can you imagine a whole season by

634
00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:50.279
Rachel Talley?

635
00:31:50.339 --> 00:31:53.039
We'd be visiting her in her cell now, wouldn't we?

636
00:31:53.099 --> 00:31:55.799
Because of what she would have done to them or having hung out

637
00:31:55.799 --> 00:31:58.200
with these people for a whole damn 12 months?

638
00:31:58.259 --> 00:32:01.079
Of course, she's just come back and she's getting up to Graham

639
00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:03.480
Harper aged and still working on the program.

640
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:06.059
We have her for this coming season too.

641
00:32:06.119 --> 00:32:07.559
She was in today's episode.

642
00:32:07.619 --> 00:32:08.940
The Starbeast.

643
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:09.960
Golly golly gosh.

644
00:32:10.019 --> 00:32:14.759
I think, actually, the only episode where Maisie's performance for

645
00:32:14.759 --> 00:32:17.819
me is a little bit problematic is the woman moved.

646
00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:20.519
Yeah. because I think it's asking her to do something that's a

647
00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:23.279
little bit outside of her range and asking her to look like

648
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:25.259
something that's not quite where she is.

649
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:31.440
Except I found the fact that she is so babyfaced in that role and

650
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:36.299
we are expected to believe that she's a mother and, you know, has

651
00:32:36.299 --> 00:32:38.160
outlived all of these people.

652
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:43.559
Like, I thought that that actually worked, whereas a Hollywood

653
00:32:43.559 --> 00:32:47.640
style teenager who's playing the part, you know, Stockard champion

654
00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:48.119
Greece.

655
00:32:48.180 --> 00:32:50.160
Gabrielle Carterice.

656
00:32:50.220 --> 00:32:52.079
It's 90210.

657
00:32:52.259 --> 00:32:53.640
I'm 40 times.

658
00:32:55.559 --> 00:32:59.700
Like, I thought that that contrast actually worked really well.

659
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:03.960
And so putting her in those clothes, you know, and that makeup and

660
00:33:03.960 --> 00:33:09.599
that hair, which just were kind of odd and off putting on her, like

661
00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:13.859
I thought that that was a deliberate attempt to increase the sort

662
00:33:13.859 --> 00:33:17.099
of dissonance around that character, you know, how I'm all on

663
00:33:17.099 --> 00:33:19.380
board with that, but the performance isn't there for me.

664
00:33:19.500 --> 00:33:23.039
I'm not on board with it at all because I think the director of

665
00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:25.079
that episode is rubbish, whoever it was.

666
00:33:25.140 --> 00:33:29.400
And I just go back to the stunt double of Peter Capaldi on the

667
00:33:29.400 --> 00:33:32.220
horse and it's just so appalling.

668
00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:34.200
And so you're giving him too much credit.

669
00:33:34.259 --> 00:33:36.299
It's just serendipity that that's the way it's worked out.

670
00:33:36.359 --> 00:33:38.160
Sorry, I'm being really harsh.

671
00:33:38.220 --> 00:33:40.799
You should have gotten to grind against Monster Peladon, part

672
00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:41.039
four.

673
00:33:41.099 --> 00:33:44.940
Well, we made the point that there didn't seem to be enough

674
00:33:44.940 --> 00:33:48.480
coverage or something in the final scene. and the final scene is

675
00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:51.720
kind of cobbled together out of whatever the hell they can find

676
00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:52.380
lying around.

677
00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:54.000
It is a bit of a problem.

678
00:33:54.059 --> 00:33:58.799
Whereas, you know, I think that Hetty McDonald, in the magician's

679
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:01.380
apprentice, the witch is familiar, does a great job there.

680
00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:05.339
I really love Daniel O'Hara's direction of under the lake and

681
00:34:05.339 --> 00:34:09.360
before the flood myself, which I just think is a great under siege

682
00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:09.780
story.

683
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:13.800
And of course, Rachel at the end, and Face the Raven.

684
00:34:13.860 --> 00:34:17.280
And the Zygon 2 parter is competently handled as well, you know?

685
00:34:17.340 --> 00:34:23.460
It's just that that very last two-hander, at the very end of the

686
00:34:23.460 --> 00:34:27.780
season, the ears on the Toby jug, when you have Capaldi and

687
00:34:27.780 --> 00:34:30.179
Williams together, and I agree with you.

688
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:34.079
I thought this girl, but we have to remember she's Welsh, so

689
00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:34.559
bitter.

690
00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:37.380
And an actor does it with their eyes.

691
00:34:37.500 --> 00:34:40.440
We talked about this way back in 2014 with Billy Hart.

692
00:34:40.500 --> 00:34:41.820
She gets it.

693
00:34:41.880 --> 00:34:48.480
She's matching Peter's eye line, as I'm doing right now, and she's

694
00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:51.360
and she's pitching it exactly. what I'm here for.

695
00:34:51.420 --> 00:34:54.179
And she's pitching it exactly note for note.

696
00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:56.940
And it's a lovely little cantata.

697
00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:00.659
It's a lovely little dance that they're playing around each

698
00:35:00.659 --> 00:35:00.960
other.

699
00:35:01.019 --> 00:35:01.739
It's so clever.

700
00:35:01.860 --> 00:35:05.400
Yeah, the character finally works for me in that scene in Hell

701
00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:05.940
Benton.

702
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:08.519
I mean, that's the place that should all fall into place.

703
00:35:08.579 --> 00:35:10.440
It's an amazing looking scene as well.

704
00:35:10.500 --> 00:35:11.159
Yeah.

705
00:35:11.219 --> 00:35:12.719
It really is.

706
00:35:12.780 --> 00:35:17.579
And you can just see how much love Capaldi has for all of the

707
00:35:17.579 --> 00:35:19.860
women who've worked opposite him this season.

708
00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:22.440
And there haven't been any boy companions this year, have there?

709
00:35:22.500 --> 00:35:25.320
No, well, there's been hardly anyone else this year.

710
00:35:25.380 --> 00:35:28.920
Roof of sound, really. and Riggs in, that's it. and they tend to

711
00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:30.539
get horribly murdered or just...

712
00:35:30.539 --> 00:35:31.440
No, they're both okay.

713
00:35:31.500 --> 00:35:32.219
Just perish.

714
00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:35.639
Ingrid Oliver would have liked to have seen her take a little...

715
00:35:36.059 --> 00:35:37.559
Was that ever going to be a thing?

716
00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:40.440
No, no, she's busy, isn't she?

717
00:35:40.500 --> 00:35:44.760
It's a shame in a way that that character never gets to do another

718
00:35:44.760 --> 00:35:47.159
episode just with the doctor because I think she actually works

719
00:35:47.159 --> 00:35:49.500
really, really well with him.

720
00:35:49.559 --> 00:35:53.039
Speaking of guest stars for the year, is there somebody that

721
00:35:53.039 --> 00:35:54.119
stands out for you?

722
00:35:54.179 --> 00:35:57.059
from all of these things that we haven't mentioned.

723
00:35:57.119 --> 00:35:59.219
I mean, I mean, you can go for Michelle Gomez.

724
00:35:59.280 --> 00:36:01.980
She's obviously the one, but she's almost a regular.

725
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:02.340
Yeah.

726
00:36:02.340 --> 00:36:06.239
I actually want to give some points to Rufus Hound.

727
00:36:06.300 --> 00:36:10.739
I like the woman who lived more than anyone here, I think.

728
00:36:10.860 --> 00:36:18.179
And I actually really like what he does, you know, and you get his

729
00:36:18.179 --> 00:36:21.900
part explained, the doctor explains to Ashilda at the end or to me

730
00:36:21.900 --> 00:36:25.139
at the end of the episode when they're in the pub that the great

731
00:36:25.139 --> 00:36:29.519
thing about Rufus Hound's character, Sam Swift, is that he loves

732
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:33.659
life and he wants as much of it as he can possibly get.

733
00:36:33.780 --> 00:36:37.380
He wants even to make the moments on the scaffold count.

734
00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:42.599
And so I think there is something really sort of fun and joyous

735
00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:43.980
about that performance.

736
00:36:44.219 --> 00:36:46.920
I actually really find myself liking it.

737
00:36:46.980 --> 00:36:50.039
And there aren't that many guest stars this season.

738
00:36:50.099 --> 00:36:51.900
There's hardly any new guest stars.

739
00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:54.960
And so when I think about really great turns that I liked, I'm

740
00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:57.119
going for like Joven Waders.

741
00:36:57.179 --> 00:36:58.920
I'm going for a healer.

742
00:36:59.219 --> 00:37:01.920
But for cuteness points.

743
00:37:02.039 --> 00:37:03.480
I will mention Zaki Ishmael.

744
00:37:03.539 --> 00:37:05.340
Oh yeah, he is cute, isn't he?

745
00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:06.360
Under the lake before the flood.

746
00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:07.380
Yep, yeah.

747
00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:10.500
Oh, and also chopra in sleep no more.

748
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:11.400
He kind of hot too.

749
00:37:11.460 --> 00:37:12.840
Oh, yes.

750
00:37:12.900 --> 00:37:16.559
Neat Moran, I want to say, he used to be in an English soap, like

751
00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:19.139
maybe casualty, and so, you know, you'd see him every Saturday

752
00:37:19.139 --> 00:37:19.440
night.

753
00:37:19.500 --> 00:37:20.460
Very pretty.

754
00:37:20.519 --> 00:37:24.119
Yeah, I think you've touched on a lot of the standout performances

755
00:37:24.119 --> 00:37:25.500
in terms of guest stars.

756
00:37:25.559 --> 00:37:28.559
Obviously, we've still got the Christmas special and I think Matt

757
00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:30.300
Lucas does a great job.

758
00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:34.980
There is Nardal to come back. and I think Ramon is also quite a

759
00:37:34.980 --> 00:37:38.639
good gift to particular episode.

760
00:37:38.699 --> 00:37:43.019
And who can forget the doctor's mother played by Linda Broughton

761
00:37:43.019 --> 00:37:45.659
in the final episode?

762
00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:46.739
I can't remember her.

763
00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:50.820
The old woman in the barn.

764
00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:52.559
I'm just being stupid.

765
00:37:52.619 --> 00:37:53.699
She's so great.

766
00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:56.219
That's nanny from father to father, isn't it?

767
00:37:56.280 --> 00:37:59.760
She gets only been in Lyman if you've gotten a pitchfork and come

768
00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:00.840
out of him out of the darkness.

769
00:38:00.900 --> 00:38:05.460
So I decided she was a returning character because we hear her

770
00:38:05.460 --> 00:38:06.300
speak in listening.

771
00:38:06.300 --> 00:38:07.800
So she doesn't come out.

772
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:09.300
The Rani.

773
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:12.000
It's not the doctor's mother. like the doctor's nanny or whatever

774
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:12.900
she happens to be.

775
00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:16.019
And Tenaya Miller also has to be mentioned.

776
00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:16.739
Oh, yes.

777
00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:17.579
God, yes.

778
00:38:17.639 --> 00:38:20.639
Actually, I don't think she's got a great role, but I'm so

779
00:38:20.639 --> 00:38:21.300
delighted to see.

780
00:38:21.420 --> 00:38:22.559
Oh, she's so terrific.

781
00:38:22.619 --> 00:38:26.639
And she was absolutely my 1st pick as the doctor for quite a long

782
00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:28.800
time and maybe it's not too late.

783
00:38:28.860 --> 00:38:29.880
We'll see what happens.

784
00:38:30.179 --> 00:38:34.139
What do you think about finding Gallifrey here at the end of the

785
00:38:34.139 --> 00:38:34.380
season?

786
00:38:34.440 --> 00:38:37.079
Like, I think it just comes out of nowhere.

787
00:38:37.139 --> 00:38:39.420
Like the whole confession dial thing.

788
00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:42.480
Suddenly we can transport ourselves to gum afraid.

789
00:38:42.539 --> 00:38:45.900
Like at the end of time, like, I mean, I care so little that it

790
00:38:45.900 --> 00:38:46.619
washes over me.

791
00:38:46.679 --> 00:38:51.000
I think we know why the casual viewers were saying what?

792
00:38:51.059 --> 00:38:55.199
And yeah, maybe that's why it hasn't got the love that other

793
00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:57.059
seasons had because it is asking a lot.

794
00:38:57.119 --> 00:38:58.980
You disagree?

795
00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:02.940
I only want to go back to Gallifrey, if it's deadly assassin style

796
00:39:02.940 --> 00:39:03.719
intrigue.

797
00:39:03.780 --> 00:39:06.300
I don't want to go under any other circumstances.

798
00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:07.019
No, I do.

799
00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:08.760
Invasion of time. crappiness.

800
00:39:08.820 --> 00:39:10.260
I run around.

801
00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:12.840
I absolutely hate Gallifrey.

802
00:39:12.900 --> 00:39:13.679
I think it's really terrible.

803
00:39:13.739 --> 00:39:18.539
I think the new series gets to do it once, and I think that this

804
00:39:18.539 --> 00:39:20.400
was a reasonable approach.

805
00:39:20.460 --> 00:39:26.820
I like the way that things ended in the end of time, part 2, where

806
00:39:26.820 --> 00:39:30.599
it's revealed that the time lords are actually far, far worse than

807
00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:33.659
anything else that the doctors ever encountered. talking about

808
00:39:33.659 --> 00:39:34.320
Timothy Dalton?

809
00:39:34.380 --> 00:39:35.039
Yeah, yeah.

810
00:39:35.099 --> 00:39:37.739
Well, just that the time lords essentially want to kill everyone

811
00:39:37.739 --> 00:39:40.980
and ascend into a sort of higher plane.

812
00:39:41.039 --> 00:39:44.400
They're more destructive and evil than the daleks ever were.

813
00:39:44.699 --> 00:39:47.219
And David Tennant, I think, sells that really well in his

814
00:39:47.219 --> 00:39:47.760
reaction.

815
00:39:47.820 --> 00:39:51.960
Moffatt plays that down because he needs them to have a role in

816
00:39:51.960 --> 00:39:53.159
Day of the Doctor.

817
00:39:53.159 --> 00:39:57.960
And he also gives them that important role in Time of the Doctor

818
00:39:57.960 --> 00:40:01.739
which is actually alluded to, isn't it, in Hell Band?

819
00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:08.400
I don't mind this version of Gallifre in Hellbent, but I would

820
00:40:08.400 --> 00:40:12.300
dearly like to never hear of Gallifre again.

821
00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:16.980
And I think probably because Gibnal destroyed it again for some

822
00:40:16.980 --> 00:40:17.460
reason.

823
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:22.440
We probably won't ever have to worry about seeing it again.

824
00:40:22.500 --> 00:40:23.820
Good.

825
00:40:30.239 --> 00:40:32.880
It's time for Storm Mary Void.

826
00:40:32.940 --> 00:40:33.780
You ready?

827
00:40:33.960 --> 00:40:35.940
The hybrid.

828
00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:38.519
The Raven, or me?

829
00:40:38.579 --> 00:40:40.139
Hello, you.

830
00:40:40.500 --> 00:40:42.840
You can take that however you want.

831
00:40:45.900 --> 00:40:50.699
Well, if we're talking about the cruelty of anything caged that

832
00:40:50.699 --> 00:40:51.719
was meant to fly.

833
00:40:51.780 --> 00:40:57.059
I do like the idea of them all buggering off and I'd probably end

834
00:40:57.059 --> 00:41:00.420
up with a much, much younger wrestle on because early career

835
00:41:00.420 --> 00:41:01.559
pretty damn fine.

836
00:41:01.619 --> 00:41:04.079
Yeah, no, not the only one here, footy legs.

837
00:41:04.139 --> 00:41:07.800
So not that this was necessarily my question, but we had we had

838
00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:08.519
the raven.

839
00:41:08.579 --> 00:41:12.539
It was getting a bit Harry Potter, wasn't it, with downtown alley

840
00:41:12.539 --> 00:41:16.079
and all of that sort of, oh, it's getting very cute now.

841
00:41:16.139 --> 00:41:17.039
Am I annoyed by this?

842
00:41:17.099 --> 00:41:18.480
Yeah, a little bit.

843
00:41:18.539 --> 00:41:19.860
My favourite episode, Laziza.

844
00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:23.159
You like the Daikon radish alley, yeah.

845
00:41:23.219 --> 00:41:24.539
Who are the other ones?

846
00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:25.860
Toddy that we can love?

847
00:41:25.920 --> 00:41:26.460
The Raven?

848
00:41:26.519 --> 00:41:27.360
The hybrid?

849
00:41:27.420 --> 00:41:28.320
The hybrid.

850
00:41:28.380 --> 00:41:31.500
See, I just see that as a plumbing attachment for when your Mila

851
00:41:31.500 --> 00:41:34.260
washing machine just keeps chugging back all the things.

852
00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:36.539
A hybrid is, hybrid is one of those little things that you just

853
00:41:36.539 --> 00:41:39.900
add on to the end to try and stop the sluice from flowing.

854
00:41:39.960 --> 00:41:41.699
We never really know what the hybrid is though, do we?

855
00:41:41.760 --> 00:41:45.360
I think I think it has to be the doctor and Clara, just given how

856
00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:46.679
the season is structured.

857
00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:54.420
And we do advance that theory at the end of hell band and it does

858
00:41:54.420 --> 00:41:57.360
motivate the doctor to say, all right, we have to stop here.

859
00:41:57.480 --> 00:42:02.039
So I think it is his realisation that the hybrid is him and Clara

860
00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:06.300
that ends that relationship that makes him realise that it has to

861
00:42:06.300 --> 00:42:06.840
stop.

862
00:42:06.900 --> 00:42:08.940
So yes, it's them.

863
00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:11.460
So you have to snorgle, marry, or avoid them.

864
00:42:11.579 --> 00:42:16.320
I want it to be the DARDIS and the DARDIS or the dinosaur.

865
00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:26.099
I kind of like the idea of the sisterhood also, you know, just

866
00:42:26.099 --> 00:42:27.420
hanging out with them.

867
00:42:27.480 --> 00:42:28.500
Can I have one of them as well?

868
00:42:28.559 --> 00:42:32.340
Well, I kind of like the fact that she's still around 4.50000000

869
00:42:32.340 --> 00:42:34.139
years later as well at the end of time.

870
00:42:34.199 --> 00:42:37.199
Sounds to me like Richard wants to give a healer a no hickey.

871
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:39.960
I'm getting ouch.

872
00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:45.059
I just love that she has not mellowed her sass, you know, in the

873
00:42:45.059 --> 00:42:48.420
whole quarter of the universe's entire lifespan.

874
00:42:48.539 --> 00:42:50.760
She's not dropped the sass one minute.

875
00:42:50.820 --> 00:42:52.500
Doesn't she say, come and face me, boy?

876
00:42:52.860 --> 00:42:54.960
She is so good.

877
00:42:55.019 --> 00:42:56.099
She is so great.

878
00:42:56.159 --> 00:43:00.059
We talked about her at great length in our episode on night of the

879
00:43:00.059 --> 00:43:05.579
doctor because she is just so spectacular in that tiny, tiny.

880
00:43:05.699 --> 00:43:06.179
So good.

881
00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:09.300
She's so good. and I'm so happy that he brings her back.

882
00:43:09.300 --> 00:43:11.460
I'm like, slap Paul McGann.

883
00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:11.880
Exactly.

884
00:43:12.960 --> 00:43:17.340
And he progressively brings her into the program. main program

885
00:43:17.340 --> 00:43:17.820
which is amazing.

886
00:43:17.880 --> 00:43:18.719
Wonderful.

887
00:43:18.780 --> 00:43:19.380
Just wonderful.

888
00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:20.280
Very subtle.

889
00:43:20.340 --> 00:43:24.239
Okay, we're just going to quickly run through a few episodes, just

890
00:43:24.239 --> 00:43:25.860
your takeaways on these.

891
00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:28.019
So let's start.

892
00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:30.360
The Magician's Apprentice, the witch is familiar.

893
00:43:30.420 --> 00:43:34.500
So my takeaways from that are Dalek Pooh and Davros Jones.

894
00:43:34.920 --> 00:43:37.260
My name is Davros.

895
00:43:37.320 --> 00:43:38.579
Davros.

896
00:43:38.940 --> 00:43:42.360
It's a very common name, actually, with someone else altogether.

897
00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:45.420
When Davos was taken out of his wheelchair.

898
00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:49.860
At the time, I kind of went, oh, is that the right thing to do?

899
00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:52.800
Like, I mean, they obviously had the doctor in Doveros's chair and

900
00:43:52.800 --> 00:43:55.679
the fun side of that, but when I saw that, even at the time I was

901
00:43:55.679 --> 00:43:59.280
a little, I was wondering if the doctor was mashing up the bits of

902
00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:02.219
Davros's legs that were left when he was in the chair.

903
00:44:02.280 --> 00:44:02.940
Yeah.

904
00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:04.980
Yeah, I think that's probably a bit yucky.

905
00:44:05.039 --> 00:44:10.559
Like, I guess for me, it's the opening of episode 2 with Missy and

906
00:44:10.559 --> 00:44:11.639
Clara.

907
00:44:11.699 --> 00:44:14.519
And in fact, they're pairing all the way through is really, really

908
00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:14.820
fun.

909
00:44:14.940 --> 00:44:18.300
Takes us right back to the thank you, Miss Grant.

910
00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:19.920
It's really good, is it?

911
00:44:19.980 --> 00:44:23.639
Because Clara usually bosses the doctor around and is always a

912
00:44:23.639 --> 00:44:25.260
sort of step ahead of him.

913
00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:30.360
And so having Missy just kind of gleefully tormenting her.

914
00:44:30.420 --> 00:44:34.500
The moment when she pushes it down the hole in order to test how

915
00:44:34.500 --> 00:44:36.900
deep it is, is so superb.

916
00:44:36.960 --> 00:44:37.860
It's just the best thing.

917
00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:39.840
A cathartic fan experience.

918
00:44:39.900 --> 00:44:40.679
Yeah, yeah.

919
00:44:40.739 --> 00:44:43.139
And also that sort of weird...

920
00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:45.960
But that weird thing where you see the camera going around and

921
00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:48.659
around at the beginning of the episode, you've got no idea why and

922
00:44:48.659 --> 00:44:50.940
then you realise it's Clara upside down.

923
00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:53.219
Like being hung from her ankles.

924
00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:54.780
It's so great. so much fun.

925
00:44:54.900 --> 00:44:55.739
That's my favourite thing.

926
00:44:55.800 --> 00:44:57.719
Is that your favourite thing to enjoy in those days?

927
00:44:57.780 --> 00:44:59.639
Isn't that your favourite thing in the season?

928
00:44:59.699 --> 00:45:01.739
Well, it's my favourite thing in that 2 parter.

929
00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:03.960
Oh yeah, like, I mean, they're dynamic.

930
00:45:04.139 --> 00:45:05.400
Wonderful, wonderful.

931
00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:07.679
All right, under the lake before the flood.

932
00:45:07.739 --> 00:45:14.159
It's very TRAD, and I think it does a reasonable job of giving

933
00:45:14.159 --> 00:45:16.019
Capoldi a base under siege.

934
00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:19.800
And I think there are some good characters.

935
00:45:19.860 --> 00:45:23.820
It's been, we always end up back at the Impossible Planet, don't

936
00:45:23.820 --> 00:45:26.579
we, when we're talking about bases under siege in the new series

937
00:45:26.579 --> 00:45:30.659
and that no one, not even Russell himself in Waters of Mars

938
00:45:30.659 --> 00:45:35.159
manages to get as well-defined a group of characters together to

939
00:45:35.159 --> 00:45:36.780
be in the base under siege.

940
00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:40.019
But I have to say that this kind of does have interesting

941
00:45:40.019 --> 00:45:45.780
characters and memorable ones and in a way that is unique in this

942
00:45:45.780 --> 00:45:46.800
season.

943
00:45:46.860 --> 00:45:51.059
So I think it's important to the season, but it's not my favourite

944
00:45:51.059 --> 00:45:51.539
I would say.

945
00:45:51.599 --> 00:45:56.099
I don't dislike it, but I don't particularly like it either.

946
00:45:56.159 --> 00:46:00.000
It never seems to really fire on all cylinders and I think the

947
00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:01.139
Fisher King is a problem.

948
00:46:01.199 --> 00:46:02.639
Oh, the Fisher King is terrible, yeah.

949
00:46:02.699 --> 00:46:06.119
So I'm going to be completely different listeners and say this is

950
00:46:06.119 --> 00:46:07.619
my favourite 2 parter.

951
00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:09.059
It's not written by Stephen Moffatt.

952
00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:14.099
That's an in season 2 parter that doesn't start the season or

953
00:46:14.099 --> 00:46:14.579
anything like that.

954
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:19.260
I have to go all the way back to human nature, family of blood.

955
00:46:19.380 --> 00:46:21.059
Like that's how much I really love it.

956
00:46:21.119 --> 00:46:22.920
I love the fact that it is a base under siege.

957
00:46:22.980 --> 00:46:24.840
I like the fact that I do engage with the characters.

958
00:46:24.900 --> 00:46:26.039
We've got a deaf character in there.

959
00:46:26.099 --> 00:46:28.199
I loved that, being a point of difference.

960
00:46:28.260 --> 00:46:30.659
I thought Capaldi was firing on all cylinders, no matter what

961
00:46:30.659 --> 00:46:32.460
anybody thinks of that scene where he's got his little

962
00:46:32.460 --> 00:46:33.119
flashcards.

963
00:46:33.179 --> 00:46:33.659
I love that.

964
00:46:33.719 --> 00:46:34.980
I love the cliffhanger.

965
00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:36.360
I love the bootstrack paradise.

966
00:46:36.420 --> 00:46:39.119
I love the fact that the Fisher King is just so crap and just

967
00:46:39.119 --> 00:46:41.519
scans there to just be just drown.

968
00:46:41.579 --> 00:46:43.500
Like, I just think that I just burst out laughing.

969
00:46:43.559 --> 00:46:44.280
That's hilarious.

970
00:46:44.340 --> 00:46:46.380
I just enjoy those episodes so much.

971
00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:48.960
And the fact that we have no crap about the hybrid or any other

972
00:46:48.960 --> 00:46:52.440
thing, just I can just enjoy it for what it is and I really do

973
00:46:52.440 --> 00:46:53.159
love it.

974
00:46:53.219 --> 00:46:56.099
And if I think if I didn't, then the season would be much lower

975
00:46:56.099 --> 00:46:56.519
down.

976
00:46:56.579 --> 00:46:59.219
And so told us now I put away his flashcards.

977
00:46:59.639 --> 00:47:03.780
All right, our next two-parter, the girl who died, the woman who

978
00:47:03.780 --> 00:47:04.139
lived.

979
00:47:04.199 --> 00:47:05.159
What's our takeaway?

980
00:47:05.340 --> 00:47:09.059
First one's fun. 2nd one's not so fun.

981
00:47:09.179 --> 00:47:11.159
I think the 1st one's really properly good.

982
00:47:11.159 --> 00:47:13.260
And I like what it says about the doctor.

983
00:47:13.320 --> 00:47:16.500
And I think the 2nd one has something different to say about the

984
00:47:16.500 --> 00:47:17.039
doctor.

985
00:47:17.039 --> 00:47:21.059
And I like the fact that both of them are short story length.

986
00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:25.500
You know, they're not a Doctor Who adventure, which I think almost

987
00:47:25.500 --> 00:47:28.739
nothing in this season is a Doctor Who adventure probably apart

988
00:47:28.739 --> 00:47:33.300
from the Zygon 2 parter and the under the lake 2 parter, everything

989
00:47:33.300 --> 00:47:34.440
else is something quite different.

990
00:47:34.500 --> 00:47:38.880
You know, like I think they have interesting ideas in them and I

991
00:47:38.880 --> 00:47:42.179
like them more, I think, than most people.

992
00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:46.800
I don't know, like I'm someone who does want more boom towns.

993
00:47:46.860 --> 00:47:51.300
Okay, want more episodes that are just character pieces where

994
00:47:51.300 --> 00:47:54.179
there's very little Doctor Whoness going on.

995
00:47:54.239 --> 00:47:56.519
Or episodes of the quality of Boomtown would be great.

996
00:47:56.639 --> 00:47:57.539
Yeah, that would be good too.

997
00:47:57.659 --> 00:48:00.719
But I think Boomtown only works if you then have those characters

998
00:48:00.719 --> 00:48:02.699
seeded earlier on in a bigger venture.

999
00:48:02.760 --> 00:48:04.559
So they can only happen so often.

1000
00:48:04.619 --> 00:48:07.500
Otherwise, you're looking like you're doing like a one episode

1001
00:48:07.500 --> 00:48:10.019
sequel to whatever that is too often.

1002
00:48:10.079 --> 00:48:12.420
Yeah, maybe that's what the woman who lived is.

1003
00:48:12.480 --> 00:48:16.980
Like I can imagine it as a short story about a shilder.

1004
00:48:17.039 --> 00:48:21.300
There was probably an anthology of short stories about a Schilder

1005
00:48:21.300 --> 00:48:22.559
released around about this time.

1006
00:48:22.619 --> 00:48:25.619
I think, yeah. which surprised me if they weren't.

1007
00:48:25.679 --> 00:48:28.260
It feels like the season should be taking off at that point.

1008
00:48:28.320 --> 00:48:29.639
For me, it doesn't.

1009
00:48:29.699 --> 00:48:30.780
It feels a bit sluggish.

1010
00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:33.659
Well, certainly the woman who lived is bleak.

1011
00:48:34.019 --> 00:48:38.639
And it's bleak not just because of a shilder, but because also

1012
00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:41.579
that a shilder is being used to illustrate the doctor's character

1013
00:48:41.579 --> 00:48:44.219
and certain tendencies in the doctor's character.

1014
00:48:44.280 --> 00:48:46.260
So everyone's a little bit miserable, I think.

1015
00:48:46.500 --> 00:48:50.460
I guess my take on that is that I liked the girl who died a lot

1016
00:48:50.460 --> 00:48:51.360
more this time through.

1017
00:48:51.420 --> 00:48:54.539
I think there's great comedy stuff from Peter Capaldi in all of

1018
00:48:54.539 --> 00:48:58.079
these episodes, including a lot of letters down, does he?

1019
00:48:58.139 --> 00:49:00.480
No, especially in the woman who lived, which I think is its

1020
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:01.079
strength.

1021
00:49:01.139 --> 00:49:06.599
But that is probably my least slight episode of the season, simply

1022
00:49:06.599 --> 00:49:09.719
because of the 2nd half of the episode.

1023
00:49:09.780 --> 00:49:13.019
All right, the Saigon invasion inversion.

1024
00:49:13.260 --> 00:49:18.659
You can't have enough calamari at any banquet, can you?

1025
00:49:18.719 --> 00:49:23.880
It's, look, again, it's the same thing of doing several levels of

1026
00:49:23.880 --> 00:49:24.780
tone at once.

1027
00:49:24.840 --> 00:49:26.760
I just thought we were redoing Dave the doctor.

1028
00:49:26.820 --> 00:49:30.000
I actually felt it was a lot of familiarity and I wasn't getting

1029
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:31.860
much that was fresh or new.

1030
00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:35.579
I live for those moments with Rebecca Frant and Peter Capaldi

1031
00:49:35.579 --> 00:49:39.179
because I just want them to start slagging each other and have an

1032
00:49:39.179 --> 00:49:42.539
entirely and he's doing proper Malcolm Tucker face the whole way

1033
00:49:42.539 --> 00:49:42.780
through.

1034
00:49:42.840 --> 00:49:46.380
There's some beautiful moments in it and gorgeous exposition and a

1035
00:49:46.380 --> 00:49:51.780
really lovely salient quality core of what is the morality of

1036
00:49:51.780 --> 00:49:56.519
being alive and having to deal with this damn thing called society

1037
00:49:56.519 --> 00:49:59.760
and what the hell do we do with it because none of us really like

1038
00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:00.360
each other.

1039
00:50:00.420 --> 00:50:01.500
So what are we going to do?

1040
00:50:01.559 --> 00:50:04.860
And it's perfect and salient for our times and all times.

1041
00:50:04.920 --> 00:50:08.400
But did I find it new and fresh and invigorating?

1042
00:50:08.460 --> 00:50:09.360
I'm sorry, I didn't.

1043
00:50:09.480 --> 00:50:14.039
Basically not here for Zygons, they're not played by John Woodnuts

1044
00:50:14.039 --> 00:50:15.119
but yeah.

1045
00:50:15.179 --> 00:50:16.019
Also teeth.

1046
00:50:16.199 --> 00:50:20.940
Yeah, my default. bothered by the teeth.

1047
00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:25.559
But definitely here for that scene which gets rightly praised at

1048
00:50:25.559 --> 00:50:30.059
the end, which is an amazing discussion of war and morality.

1049
00:50:30.119 --> 00:50:31.559
Yeah, yeah.

1050
00:50:31.619 --> 00:50:32.579
And sort of timely.

1051
00:50:32.639 --> 00:50:36.719
I mean, and delivered with should have been BAFTA winning strength

1052
00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:38.159
by Peter Capaldi.

1053
00:50:38.219 --> 00:50:39.179
Yeah.

1054
00:50:39.239 --> 00:50:39.900
Yeah.

1055
00:50:39.960 --> 00:50:46.380
Look, I think that it is different. and it has a kind of real

1056
00:50:46.380 --> 00:50:51.239
early pertwe kind of vibe to it in that it's a series of worldwide

1057
00:50:51.239 --> 00:50:52.860
events.

1058
00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:55.440
And I think that sort of works.

1059
00:50:55.500 --> 00:50:56.280
It's interesting.

1060
00:50:56.340 --> 00:50:58.260
It's something that we haven't attempted for a while.

1061
00:50:58.320 --> 00:51:03.480
I guess the closest is aliens of London in a way, but this is much

1062
00:51:03.480 --> 00:51:06.420
more serious than that and has gone much further.

1063
00:51:06.480 --> 00:51:11.639
I mean, I just think that the premise where there are 20000000

1064
00:51:11.639 --> 00:51:16.079
zigons living on Earth, mostly in the UK and just going with that

1065
00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:18.480
as a premise is just great.

1066
00:51:18.599 --> 00:51:23.760
Like, it's the most ambitious premise of any Doctor Who story for

1067
00:51:23.760 --> 00:51:24.239
a long time.

1068
00:51:24.300 --> 00:51:25.860
They just about make it work.

1069
00:51:25.920 --> 00:51:29.579
I'd love to think that the germ of the idea for this story was the

1070
00:51:29.579 --> 00:51:32.400
line in Terror of the Saigons, isn't it a big just for the 5 of

1071
00:51:32.400 --> 00:51:32.579
you?

1072
00:51:35.639 --> 00:51:37.920
I think it's a really strong two-parter.

1073
00:51:37.980 --> 00:51:41.820
I guess my takeaways from it are Ingrid Oliver as Osgood.

1074
00:51:41.880 --> 00:51:46.440
Rebecca Front as Captain Walsh.

1075
00:51:46.500 --> 00:51:48.599
The fact that Kate Stewart gets something to do.

1076
00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:51.599
Moat damn it, woman.

1077
00:51:51.659 --> 00:51:55.619
I don't like the whole sequence with the plane.

1078
00:51:55.679 --> 00:51:58.139
Yeah, I just can't handle that.

1079
00:51:58.199 --> 00:51:59.219
So that's what I take away from it.

1080
00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:01.260
Alright, sleep no more.

1081
00:52:01.320 --> 00:52:02.639
Sleep quite often.

1082
00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:07.139
Look, I think if it was done as a standard episode, it'd be quite

1083
00:52:07.139 --> 00:52:12.179
bland and generic, and it wouldn't be well regarded, I think that

1084
00:52:12.179 --> 00:52:14.760
they tried to do something different to make it more interesting

1085
00:52:14.760 --> 00:52:18.300
again, as I said, at the time, it froze out my equilibrium, and I

1086
00:52:18.300 --> 00:52:19.739
find that it's a plus on a minus.

1087
00:52:19.800 --> 00:52:22.380
Like I find that off putting, but once I get into it, once I get

1088
00:52:22.380 --> 00:52:24.900
past that 1st 20 minutes, I actually quite enjoyed it.

1089
00:52:25.019 --> 00:52:30.420
I think I compared it to 42 in that it was a fairly generic thing

1090
00:52:30.420 --> 00:52:36.719
that tried to kind of tar itself up by having some high concept in

1091
00:52:36.719 --> 00:52:37.260
42.

1092
00:52:37.440 --> 00:52:39.059
It's obviously the real time thing.

1093
00:52:39.119 --> 00:52:41.159
And here it's the found footage thing.

1094
00:52:41.219 --> 00:52:44.280
And there doesn't seem to be a very good reason for it to be found

1095
00:52:44.280 --> 00:52:44.940
footage.

1096
00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:48.420
But nevertheless, there was something about the world that it

1097
00:52:48.420 --> 00:52:49.440
created that I liked.

1098
00:52:49.500 --> 00:52:50.639
Simon mentioned this.

1099
00:52:50.699 --> 00:52:53.820
You know, we're out at Neptune. something has happened to the

1100
00:52:53.820 --> 00:52:55.500
inside of the solar system.

1101
00:52:55.559 --> 00:52:59.219
And we're in this sort of very bleak place where humanity is kind

1102
00:52:59.219 --> 00:53:03.719
of horrible and we like genetically engineering soldiers and we're

1103
00:53:03.719 --> 00:53:05.460
monetising people sleep.

1104
00:53:05.460 --> 00:53:09.780
And there's something kind of dystopian about it, which isn't kind

1105
00:53:09.780 --> 00:53:13.139
of rammed down our throats in a really obvious way.

1106
00:53:13.199 --> 00:53:15.239
And I thought that that was kind of interesting.

1107
00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:19.199
It's nice to see Mark Gatis attempt, something a little bit

1108
00:53:19.199 --> 00:53:20.340
different, I guess.

1109
00:53:20.940 --> 00:53:27.360
And I do like the idea that it threatens the audience that because

1110
00:53:27.360 --> 00:53:31.739
we heard that sound in the broadcast.

1111
00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:35.400
We're ultimately going to succumb to the sort of crummy looking

1112
00:53:35.400 --> 00:53:38.699
sleep monsters and that's quite fun, I think.

1113
00:53:38.760 --> 00:53:42.900
I'd got a sense that Margatus was really tired of sitting on comic

1114
00:53:42.900 --> 00:53:46.199
comp panels with Neil Gaiman hearing everyone saying how freaking

1115
00:53:46.199 --> 00:53:48.179
amazing he was and thought, I'm going to do that too.

1116
00:53:48.239 --> 00:53:51.960
And I'm going to use today's own Patrick Trout as the villain.

1117
00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:55.440
It was very disappointing seeing Reese Smith not play the 2nd

1118
00:53:55.440 --> 00:53:55.800
doctor.

1119
00:53:56.039 --> 00:53:58.139
Well, you say disappointing.

1120
00:53:58.619 --> 00:54:02.039
I think we actually in that episode said that it was a bit of a

1121
00:54:02.039 --> 00:54:05.820
relief. really like his patreon.

1122
00:54:05.880 --> 00:54:11.579
Yeah, it feels to me as if it's a nod to other writers' styles and

1123
00:54:11.579 --> 00:54:12.539
there's nothing wrong with that.

1124
00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:13.619
That's what science fiction is.

1125
00:54:13.739 --> 00:54:16.079
It doesn't quite get there, does it?

1126
00:54:16.139 --> 00:54:19.440
It doesn't quite get there, but I think it's got this reputation

1127
00:54:19.440 --> 00:54:21.659
that is unwarranted.

1128
00:54:21.719 --> 00:54:24.360
I don't think it's anywhere near as bad.

1129
00:54:24.420 --> 00:54:26.460
Nathan.

1130
00:54:26.579 --> 00:54:30.119
I think it's full of potentially interesting ideas and setup.

1131
00:54:30.179 --> 00:54:31.739
I don't think any of it comes off.

1132
00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:33.179
It's actually quite a chore to watch.

1133
00:54:33.239 --> 00:54:39.480
And to see something like that done go to oxygen next year because

1134
00:54:39.480 --> 00:54:40.860
it's a very similar setup.

1135
00:54:40.920 --> 00:54:44.940
Very similar themes and that's an extremely watchful and

1136
00:54:44.940 --> 00:54:46.679
entertaining episode, whereas this isn't.

1137
00:54:46.739 --> 00:54:47.519
So. what's the difference?

1138
00:54:48.239 --> 00:54:50.159
Face the Raven.

1139
00:54:50.219 --> 00:54:51.599
Favourite episode of the season.

1140
00:54:51.659 --> 00:54:52.440
Not afraid to say it.

1141
00:54:52.500 --> 00:54:58.860
I started kind of tearing up in the opening credits when I went to

1142
00:54:58.860 --> 00:55:01.320
rewatch it for the 1st time before doing it here.

1143
00:55:01.380 --> 00:55:04.260
I do that frequently during Paldi opening credits.

1144
00:55:04.500 --> 00:55:06.119
Not great.

1145
00:55:06.179 --> 00:55:07.500
I think it's incredible.

1146
00:55:07.559 --> 00:55:13.019
And the thing that we discovered from our episode is that we took

1147
00:55:13.019 --> 00:55:16.500
Sarah Dollard's premise, which was enough, probably, to sustain an

1148
00:55:16.500 --> 00:55:22.440
entire episode. and then just threw it away and that that bespeaks

1149
00:55:22.440 --> 00:55:24.780
a kind of confidence that the show has at this point.

1150
00:55:24.840 --> 00:55:28.320
I love it It often gets overlooked.

1151
00:55:28.380 --> 00:55:30.360
Well, because of the next episode.

1152
00:55:30.420 --> 00:55:33.780
Every time I come back to it, I love the trap street.

1153
00:55:33.840 --> 00:55:34.679
Rigsey's great.

1154
00:55:34.739 --> 00:55:38.880
And the last 10 minutes are just compelling television.

1155
00:55:38.940 --> 00:55:41.579
Do you know, I suspect you love it in part for the same reason

1156
00:55:41.579 --> 00:55:45.000
that I love it, and that is that I could see it being done as a

1157
00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:47.039
Sylvester McCoy all studio 3 parts up.

1158
00:55:47.099 --> 00:55:50.880
It has this wonderful quality of nostalgia to it.

1159
00:55:50.940 --> 00:55:54.059
It's very small scale and you could actually do it in a corner of

1160
00:55:54.059 --> 00:55:55.619
the studio, which I think they probably did.

1161
00:55:56.099 --> 00:55:59.280
And it just has that warm glow for me.

1162
00:55:59.340 --> 00:56:01.139
It feels like classic Doctor Who.

1163
00:56:01.619 --> 00:56:03.599
Heaven sent.

1164
00:56:03.659 --> 00:56:06.239
Talking of feeling like classic Doctor Who.

1165
00:56:06.300 --> 00:56:11.579
I just think the editing is utterly and totally extraordinary.

1166
00:56:11.639 --> 00:56:16.139
I mean, obviously, obviously the direction and Peter's performance

1167
00:56:16.139 --> 00:56:19.800
but that editing in that lasts...

1168
00:56:19.860 --> 00:56:20.699
The lighting.

1169
00:56:20.820 --> 00:56:22.320
Why did this not get a Hugo, did it?

1170
00:56:22.380 --> 00:56:23.340
Did it get anything?

1171
00:56:23.400 --> 00:56:24.420
It got a satin, didn't it?

1172
00:56:24.480 --> 00:56:26.699
I mean, it really should have won the Hugo this year.

1173
00:56:26.760 --> 00:56:28.860
I think Sleep No More got a Neptune.

1174
00:56:29.579 --> 00:56:31.019
Ouch.

1175
00:56:31.079 --> 00:56:34.320
I mean, I think it's one of the best things that the show has ever

1176
00:56:34.320 --> 00:56:34.679
done.

1177
00:56:34.739 --> 00:56:40.139
I think it is absolutely the thing that Moffat planned to do on

1178
00:56:40.139 --> 00:56:41.039
his way out the door.

1179
00:56:41.400 --> 00:56:45.780
Yeah, this is like, this is me, you know, he's written more Doctor

1180
00:56:45.780 --> 00:56:46.679
Who than anyone else.

1181
00:56:46.739 --> 00:56:52.079
He sets himself these really strict formal constraints and he has

1182
00:56:52.079 --> 00:56:54.059
the perfect leading man to do it.

1183
00:56:54.119 --> 00:56:58.500
You know, it is Moffatt's tricks, the things that we are used to

1184
00:56:58.500 --> 00:57:03.719
but he's deploying them really well in the interest of something

1185
00:57:03.719 --> 00:57:06.239
that has real proper atmosphere.

1186
00:57:06.360 --> 00:57:10.739
I think the difference between Moffatt doing this and what Russell

1187
00:57:10.739 --> 00:57:11.219
would have done.

1188
00:57:11.280 --> 00:57:14.099
And I think, you know, the nearest thing that we have is perhaps

1189
00:57:14.099 --> 00:57:19.980
midnight or possibly turn left, where Russell is still fun and

1190
00:57:19.980 --> 00:57:25.199
light, even in his sort of darkest moments, they're still kind of

1191
00:57:25.199 --> 00:57:25.980
fun to be had.

1192
00:57:26.039 --> 00:57:28.860
But Moffatt is, yeah, well, yeah.

1193
00:57:28.920 --> 00:57:31.980
Yeah, let's see what happens after. years and years.

1194
00:57:32.039 --> 00:57:32.400
Yeah, yeah.

1195
00:57:32.460 --> 00:57:37.559
But Moffatt is focussed, everything is working together.

1196
00:57:37.619 --> 00:57:43.860
Everyone, uh, Talalay, Gold, Moffat, and Capoldia, all, you know

1197
00:57:43.860 --> 00:57:44.880
at the height of their powers.

1198
00:57:44.940 --> 00:57:45.900
I think it's amazing.

1199
00:57:45.960 --> 00:57:51.179
I have to say that until this point, the charms of heaven sent had

1200
00:57:51.179 --> 00:57:52.500
eluded me somewhat.

1201
00:57:52.559 --> 00:57:55.380
I always thought it was pretty good, but I didn't know why people

1202
00:57:55.380 --> 00:57:57.960
raved about it or face raved about it.

1203
00:57:58.440 --> 00:58:00.480
But I got it this time.

1204
00:58:00.539 --> 00:58:05.039
I still don't think maybe it's the A plus great piece of work that

1205
00:58:05.039 --> 00:58:08.099
other people do, but I do see it has significant strengths.

1206
00:58:08.219 --> 00:58:12.000
I think it's interesting like the audience appreciation for that

1207
00:58:12.000 --> 00:58:15.059
episode is slightly less than others in the season, like I said

1208
00:58:15.059 --> 00:58:17.880
only at 80, which I mean, you might say, whatever, but I think

1209
00:58:17.880 --> 00:58:22.440
maybe because that's the nature of the story and how all of that

1210
00:58:22.440 --> 00:58:23.460
is all edited together.

1211
00:58:23.519 --> 00:58:26.760
It's always important to remember that Kinder came bottom of the

1212
00:58:26.760 --> 00:58:28.739
season 19 season poll.

1213
00:58:30.119 --> 00:58:32.400
Oh, well, never mind.

1214
00:58:32.460 --> 00:58:35.940
Arch of Infinity came 3rd the next year.

1215
00:58:37.320 --> 00:58:39.179
Hell bent.

1216
00:58:39.239 --> 00:58:40.739
Surprisingly good.

1217
00:58:40.800 --> 00:58:43.440
I like it much more than I expected.

1218
00:58:43.500 --> 00:58:46.860
I had basically no memory of it and I thought it was really good.

1219
00:58:46.920 --> 00:58:47.760
Agreed.

1220
00:58:47.820 --> 00:58:48.960
I thought it was a lot.

1221
00:58:49.019 --> 00:58:50.280
Yeah, surprisingly good.

1222
00:58:50.340 --> 00:58:54.179
And it was nice to have a bit of a breather in the barn for about

1223
00:58:54.179 --> 00:58:57.599
20 minutes before we got back to enough of your private life.

1224
00:58:57.900 --> 00:59:00.539
I love that barn scene.

1225
00:59:00.599 --> 00:59:04.920
It's so funny and it only works because it's Capaldi telling it to

1226
00:59:04.920 --> 00:59:05.639
Clara.

1227
00:59:05.699 --> 00:59:09.420
So it ends up being this sort of weird, shaggy dog story about how

1228
00:59:09.420 --> 00:59:13.440
he just sat there and waited and then some soldiers came and then

1229
00:59:13.440 --> 00:59:16.800
the president came and, you know, like then they had big guns and

1230
00:59:16.800 --> 00:59:19.980
stuff and and like all of that stuff is so much fun and so

1231
00:59:19.980 --> 00:59:21.840
outrageously over the top.

1232
00:59:21.900 --> 00:59:24.059
It's really excellent, I think.

1233
00:59:24.119 --> 00:59:29.099
I love the scenes in the diner. melancholy music, her music.

1234
00:59:29.159 --> 00:59:35.280
I love when she talks to the Time Lords, and then, um, it's that

1235
00:59:35.280 --> 00:59:39.539
moment where he's stealing the TARDIS, and you get to look in the

1236
00:59:39.539 --> 00:59:40.980
other TARDIS, which is great.

1237
00:59:41.039 --> 00:59:42.420
Those moments stick in my mind.

1238
00:59:42.840 --> 00:59:48.119
The diner scene nails the season for me because it's such, again

1239
00:59:48.119 --> 00:59:52.019
those lovely quiet two-handed scenes that Stephen writes so well.

1240
00:59:52.139 --> 00:59:54.119
And that's another one that flips.

1241
00:59:54.179 --> 00:59:56.099
You know, we Classic moth at wrong footing.

1242
00:59:56.159 --> 01:00:00.300
Yeah, we think that Clara can't remember the doctor and then we

1243
01:00:00.300 --> 01:00:01.800
discover that it's the other way around.

1244
01:00:01.860 --> 01:00:05.880
It's really good Because she reversed the polarity.

1245
01:00:05.940 --> 01:00:08.460
She reversed the polarity and he reversed it back.

1246
01:00:08.519 --> 01:00:11.400
Yeah, no, she literally refers to polarity.

1247
01:00:11.460 --> 01:00:12.780
It's terrific.

1248
01:00:12.840 --> 01:00:15.539
And then just having her steal a Tardisan go off and have

1249
01:00:15.539 --> 01:00:18.659
adventures and stuff is the perfect ending for that companion in

1250
01:00:18.659 --> 01:00:21.300
particular, and we're not going to punish her for wanting to be

1251
01:00:21.300 --> 01:00:21.780
the doctor.

1252
01:00:21.840 --> 01:00:23.639
She gets to be the doctor and that's awesome.

1253
01:00:23.880 --> 01:00:28.559
And of course, we will mention the husbands of River song because

1254
01:00:28.559 --> 01:00:30.900
it was only broadcast 20 days after.

1255
01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:34.980
It's got so much comedy in it, which I really like after the

1256
01:00:34.980 --> 01:00:38.400
heaviness of things and but then it's beautiful.

1257
01:00:38.400 --> 01:00:40.260
At the end, it's heartwarming.

1258
01:00:40.380 --> 01:00:40.860
It tragic.

1259
01:00:40.920 --> 01:00:42.179
It's everything you want to be.

1260
01:00:42.239 --> 01:00:43.500
I really liked it so much.

1261
01:00:43.559 --> 01:00:48.360
It's taking the 1st river song story where she dies chained to

1262
01:00:48.360 --> 01:00:52.739
that wall and flipping it, changing the significance of that.

1263
01:00:52.860 --> 01:00:57.900
She talks about the doctor, putting on a new suit, coming to pick

1264
01:00:57.900 --> 01:01:01.260
her up and taking her to dinner, and that was the last time she

1265
01:01:01.260 --> 01:01:05.880
saw him, and then they spend 24 years, you know, and derelium

1266
01:01:05.880 --> 01:01:06.300
together.

1267
01:01:06.360 --> 01:01:10.920
And so it just changes it completely and turns that into you know

1268
01:01:10.920 --> 01:01:12.059
a much happier ending.

1269
01:01:12.119 --> 01:01:16.079
And like River's reaction to discovering that is just absolutely

1270
01:01:16.079 --> 01:01:16.739
perfect.

1271
01:01:16.800 --> 01:01:21.539
I haven't rewatched it, but I know that I absolutely adore

1272
01:01:21.539 --> 01:01:22.920
Husbands of River song.

1273
01:01:22.980 --> 01:01:25.019
So one of the best things Moffat ever did.

1274
01:01:25.079 --> 01:01:28.139
I think it's interesting, like, you know, he's really wrapping up

1275
01:01:28.139 --> 01:01:32.880
his time on the show between Galifre, finding Galifre, letting

1276
01:01:32.880 --> 01:01:35.519
Clara go, wrapping up River song.

1277
01:01:35.579 --> 01:01:39.119
It's sort of like we're about to hand over to somebody new, but

1278
01:01:39.119 --> 01:01:40.559
we're not going to do that.

1279
01:01:40.619 --> 01:01:42.119
Just get.

1280
01:01:42.179 --> 01:01:46.380
All right, so we've got a couple more questions. as we sort of

1281
01:01:46.380 --> 01:01:46.920
wrap this up.

1282
01:01:46.980 --> 01:01:51.059
So, one to watch, one to avoid, one that got away in terms of

1283
01:01:51.059 --> 01:01:51.420
episodes.

1284
01:01:52.079 --> 01:01:56.099
Want to watch Hellbent because it is better than you think it is?

1285
01:01:56.159 --> 01:01:58.079
One to avoid.

1286
01:01:58.139 --> 01:02:01.019
Sorry, the woman who lived.

1287
01:02:01.079 --> 01:02:02.940
And what was the other option?

1288
01:02:03.000 --> 01:02:05.099
One that you think's gotten away, like from people.

1289
01:02:05.159 --> 01:02:06.119
Face the Raven.

1290
01:02:06.179 --> 01:02:08.400
I think Face the Raven is better than people give it credit for.

1291
01:02:08.880 --> 01:02:10.800
It's very interesting.

1292
01:02:10.860 --> 01:02:15.480
I would probably say the Zygon ones personally because my take on

1293
01:02:15.480 --> 01:02:20.219
them was thin, but I might go back and watch the 2nd part of that

1294
01:02:20.219 --> 01:02:23.219
and see that that might be the one that for me, but other people

1295
01:02:23.219 --> 01:02:24.300
think it's fantastic.

1296
01:02:24.360 --> 01:02:26.699
Sleep No More has great moments.

1297
01:02:26.760 --> 01:02:30.599
And I think if we were 13, 14 years of age, we would have found it

1298
01:02:30.599 --> 01:02:31.739
really interesting.

1299
01:02:31.739 --> 01:02:35.940
It might just be the over familiarity of the type of story.

1300
01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:39.780
I don't think the pacing or the direction is necessarily poor.

1301
01:02:39.840 --> 01:02:41.699
So that might also be a getaway.

1302
01:02:41.760 --> 01:02:45.719
I'm not really looking at anything that we haven't praised or that

1303
01:02:45.719 --> 01:02:49.860
audiences didn't praise, but then, as you said, this wasn't a

1304
01:02:49.860 --> 01:02:53.219
popular choice with casual viewers, was it this season?

1305
01:02:53.280 --> 01:02:54.840
It didn't stay up there.

1306
01:02:54.900 --> 01:02:58.139
No, it was impacted a little bit in the ratings.

1307
01:02:58.199 --> 01:03:02.639
But how much of that we can let the door of the season when they

1308
01:03:02.639 --> 01:03:03.659
weren't great from the off.

1309
01:03:03.719 --> 01:03:04.199
I don't know.

1310
01:03:04.260 --> 01:03:05.099
Okay.

1311
01:03:05.280 --> 01:03:09.119
I would say watch, heaven's end.

1312
01:03:09.179 --> 01:03:15.000
You can't watch it too often because it's a bit of a slog in a way

1313
01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:18.360
not because it's poorly written or boring or anything. very

1314
01:03:18.360 --> 01:03:19.139
painted-y, isn't it?

1315
01:03:19.199 --> 01:03:23.280
It feels like the very violent, late Renaissance, Penguin, I

1316
01:03:23.280 --> 01:03:28.019
wanted to say Caravaggio, but the very rich, decadent, lush oils

1317
01:03:28.019 --> 01:03:31.559
and that carroscuro, very light moment, you know, that there'll be

1318
01:03:31.559 --> 01:03:35.039
a point of light, but the rest of the canvas is in darkness, and

1319
01:03:35.039 --> 01:03:37.679
it paints horrors, internal horrors.

1320
01:03:37.739 --> 01:03:40.920
What it does with light is really interesting, what it does with a

1321
01:03:40.920 --> 01:03:42.059
camera is really interesting.

1322
01:03:42.119 --> 01:03:44.460
What it does with subjectivity is really interesting.

1323
01:03:44.519 --> 01:03:49.019
The way that it is able to give the doctor enough to do in an hour

1324
01:03:49.019 --> 01:03:51.059
to kind of sustain our interest.

1325
01:03:51.119 --> 01:03:54.599
I think all of it's like kind of a masterclass in everything.

1326
01:03:54.659 --> 01:03:56.639
So I think that would be it.

1327
01:03:56.699 --> 01:04:02.940
I don't really have one to avoid, although maybe the 2nd part of

1328
01:04:02.940 --> 01:04:07.739
the under the lake 2 parter is probably my least favourite episode

1329
01:04:07.739 --> 01:04:08.400
of the season.

1330
01:04:08.460 --> 01:04:11.579
But, you know, like, I don't think that's to be avoided.

1331
01:04:11.639 --> 01:04:14.880
And I think it has Capaldi in it and he's fantastic.

1332
01:04:14.940 --> 01:04:17.400
And the one that gets away.

1333
01:04:17.579 --> 01:04:23.219
I still think that the Zigon 2 parter is the show trying to do

1334
01:04:23.219 --> 01:04:27.719
something interesting at such a late date and I'm here for that.

1335
01:04:27.780 --> 01:04:30.659
I think that's one that people overlook.

1336
01:04:30.719 --> 01:04:32.940
So sidebar to that.

1337
01:04:33.000 --> 01:04:37.260
My boyfriend, Sean, was watching Doctor Who just to see what I was

1338
01:04:37.260 --> 01:04:38.460
ranting about.

1339
01:04:38.519 --> 01:04:41.039
And we watched Blink together and he really enjoyed that.

1340
01:04:41.099 --> 01:04:45.119
But then, um, under his own steam, he watched Capaldi's speech

1341
01:04:45.119 --> 01:04:50.519
from the Zygon 2 Parta, and was so swept away by it, he said, and

1342
01:04:50.519 --> 01:04:52.860
this is why I said it earlier, he said that should have won a

1343
01:04:52.860 --> 01:04:54.840
BAFTA, why was it not even nominated?

1344
01:04:54.900 --> 01:04:57.900
He thought it was a superb scene.

1345
01:04:57.960 --> 01:04:59.219
And he's a Cini file.

1346
01:04:59.280 --> 01:05:02.039
And so he thinks of things on filmic levels.

1347
01:05:02.039 --> 01:05:04.500
And he said, you could put that in an Oscar winning movie.

1348
01:05:04.500 --> 01:05:06.179
And that would be a show stopping performance.

1349
01:05:06.599 --> 01:05:08.400
Well, it would be.

1350
01:05:08.460 --> 01:05:13.079
I think Peter Capaldi's comedy timing, dramatic beats this

1351
01:05:13.079 --> 01:05:13.440
season.

1352
01:05:13.500 --> 01:05:15.719
Everything he delivered this season is just perfection.

1353
01:05:15.780 --> 01:05:17.820
But for me, one to watch.

1354
01:05:17.880 --> 01:05:21.599
Oh my goodness, there's so many to choose from, and you've touched

1355
01:05:21.599 --> 01:05:22.260
on all of them.

1356
01:05:22.320 --> 01:05:26.460
It'd either be under the lake or heaven sent, one that's gotten

1357
01:05:26.460 --> 01:05:26.940
away.

1358
01:05:27.000 --> 01:05:31.559
I actually think Hell Bent doesn't get enough praise, but again, at

1359
01:05:31.559 --> 01:05:34.500
the same token, I could easily choose Face the Raven, or even

1360
01:05:34.500 --> 01:05:40.920
sleep no more, one to avoid, it's hard, probably the woman who

1361
01:05:40.920 --> 01:05:44.519
lived, but I don't really, you know, I can watch half of that and

1362
01:05:44.519 --> 01:05:45.539
be quite okay with it.

1363
01:05:45.599 --> 01:05:46.320
So there you go.

1364
01:05:58.440 --> 01:06:00.659
All right, Jenny Laird Award nominations.

1365
01:06:01.260 --> 01:06:05.579
And the Bonnie Langford Award, the Startling Discovery.

1366
01:06:05.940 --> 01:06:10.980
The Jenny Laird Award goes to whoever cut the trailer for this and

1367
01:06:10.980 --> 01:06:14.820
decided to say, same old, same old.

1368
01:06:14.880 --> 01:06:18.719
We mentioned over and over again. but the season comes out of the

1369
01:06:18.719 --> 01:06:24.599
gates hobbled a bit by the fact that it's so introspective and

1370
01:06:24.599 --> 01:06:25.980
that trailer doesn't help.

1371
01:06:26.039 --> 01:06:27.480
Why didn't fans like this season more?

1372
01:06:27.539 --> 01:06:29.460
All they ever want is same old thing.

1373
01:06:29.579 --> 01:06:30.840
I know, I know, I know.

1374
01:06:30.900 --> 01:06:33.059
My Jenny League goes too.

1375
01:06:33.119 --> 01:06:35.519
The stunt double of Peter Capaldi on the horse.

1376
01:06:36.360 --> 01:06:38.940
I'm sorry, it just has to, I don't know.

1377
01:06:39.000 --> 01:06:41.460
There's probably other stuff that I will think about later, but

1378
01:06:41.460 --> 01:06:42.960
that just...

1379
01:06:43.079 --> 01:06:44.940
I think it was one Zygon.

1380
01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:49.320
There was one Zigon trying to manage with 6 limbs.

1381
01:06:49.380 --> 01:06:51.840
It's very difficult to get right on the day.

1382
01:06:52.380 --> 01:06:57.239
My unsuspected delight is not necessarily the Fisher King because

1383
01:06:57.239 --> 01:07:00.539
again, what's the point of a big carapace unless you're Helen

1384
01:07:00.539 --> 01:07:01.139
McCrory.

1385
01:07:01.199 --> 01:07:02.760
Yes, exactly.

1386
01:07:02.820 --> 01:07:06.300
But as an homage to Helen McCroy, I'm so with you, girl.

1387
01:07:06.300 --> 01:07:07.679
I know what he was up to.

1388
01:07:07.739 --> 01:07:09.059
I agree with Todd.

1389
01:07:09.119 --> 01:07:12.659
The undersea base thing being, you know, of a child of a certain

1390
01:07:12.659 --> 01:07:16.500
age and remembering C-Lab 2020 and how much we loved it and all

1391
01:07:16.500 --> 01:07:17.699
the Jerry Anderson series.

1392
01:07:17.760 --> 01:07:21.539
It's a lot better than you remember when you watch it again.

1393
01:07:21.599 --> 01:07:22.800
And there's beautiful moments.

1394
01:07:22.860 --> 01:07:27.000
I love the actress, the deaf actress who plays the smartest woman

1395
01:07:27.000 --> 01:07:31.619
on the base, and the doctor refers to her and registers her, and

1396
01:07:31.619 --> 01:07:36.059
she just gives such a stunning performance because I guess of all

1397
01:07:36.059 --> 01:07:41.099
people who have an impairment, she is very emotive with her face

1398
01:07:41.099 --> 01:07:42.780
and her eyes especially.

1399
01:07:42.840 --> 01:07:45.840
And so she can eyebrow Capaldi right back at him.

1400
01:07:45.840 --> 01:07:47.820
And there's scenes between them are electric.

1401
01:07:47.880 --> 01:07:52.500
I agree with Todd on that one Maybe my Jenny Laird award goes back

1402
01:07:52.500 --> 01:07:55.559
to, you're trying to reboot your childhood, Mr. Moffat, by giving

1403
01:07:55.559 --> 01:08:00.300
us 4 part 20 something minute stories, because that was the glory

1404
01:08:00.300 --> 01:08:00.780
days.

1405
01:08:00.840 --> 01:08:04.019
But if you look back, there was a lot of sitting about waiting for

1406
01:08:04.019 --> 01:08:06.360
things to happen in those glory days, weren't there?

1407
01:08:06.420 --> 01:08:08.159
So maybe that's my Jenny Laird.

1408
01:08:08.219 --> 01:08:11.820
My Jenny Lad award goes to whoever decided not to cast Jenny Laird

1409
01:08:11.820 --> 01:08:12.539
as a healer.

1410
01:08:15.300 --> 01:08:19.920
Actually, it might go to Stephen Moffat for his line, Dalek

1411
01:08:19.920 --> 01:08:21.600
Supreme, your sewers are revolting.

1412
01:08:21.659 --> 01:08:22.920
Stephen, you are better than this.

1413
01:08:23.340 --> 01:08:26.699
He went to so much effort to be able to include that.

1414
01:08:26.760 --> 01:08:27.779
Absolutely.

1415
01:08:27.840 --> 01:08:31.739
I think that my Bonnie Langford would have to go to just the

1416
01:08:31.739 --> 01:08:36.779
absolute fan heart pounding joy of seeing that original TARDIS

1417
01:08:36.779 --> 01:08:38.640
console room again.

1418
01:08:38.699 --> 01:08:41.640
Although it's veering into a Jenny Ladd because everyone knows not

1419
01:08:41.640 --> 01:08:42.000
white.

1420
01:08:42.060 --> 01:08:43.260
It's a pale lime green.

1421
01:08:43.979 --> 01:08:47.819
Well, it looked white to the black and white cameras.

1422
01:08:47.880 --> 01:08:51.119
With blue floors. which were meant to look gray.

1423
01:08:52.739 --> 01:08:55.319
Follow that listener.

1424
01:08:55.380 --> 01:08:57.239
Barbara's blouse.

1425
01:08:57.300 --> 01:08:58.079
I'm saying.

1426
01:08:58.380 --> 01:09:02.939
My Bunny Langford goes to Michelle Gomez, because she is

1427
01:09:02.939 --> 01:09:07.260
predictably the best thing in anything that she's in, including an

1428
01:09:07.260 --> 01:09:08.460
entire season of Doctor Who.

1429
01:09:08.520 --> 01:09:11.100
So my Bonnie Langford goes to the puppy.

1430
01:09:11.159 --> 01:09:12.539
Isn't it the puppy?

1431
01:09:12.600 --> 01:09:13.739
You're the puppy or the what?

1432
01:09:13.800 --> 01:09:15.600
Yeah, you're the puppy.

1433
01:09:15.659 --> 01:09:18.779
No, my Bonnie Langford goes...

1434
01:09:18.840 --> 01:09:20.579
I think it will go to Jenna.

1435
01:09:20.640 --> 01:09:24.899
Okay, for the fact that I really found Clara plays Bonnie.

1436
01:09:24.960 --> 01:09:27.359
Yeah, the fact that she plays Bonnie and she does that really well

1437
01:09:27.359 --> 01:09:31.920
and she really just holds her holds her own and more with Peter

1438
01:09:31.920 --> 01:09:36.720
all season and Clara is nowhere near as annoyingly awful as I

1439
01:09:36.720 --> 01:09:37.560
thought this season.

1440
01:09:37.619 --> 01:09:39.659
And that's her performance really.

1441
01:09:45.720 --> 01:09:49.260
All right, so finally, our final question, Series 10.

1442
01:09:49.619 --> 01:09:50.699
Where's it with you?

1443
01:09:50.760 --> 01:09:55.439
It always annoyed me slightly that series 11 was promoted as such

1444
01:09:55.439 --> 01:09:59.039
a soft reboot for the show when we just had an extremely

1445
01:09:59.039 --> 01:10:02.039
successful soft reboot of the show the season before.

1446
01:10:02.100 --> 01:10:04.920
I may be heading for a verse Todd experience.

1447
01:10:04.979 --> 01:10:05.460
I don't know.

1448
01:10:05.520 --> 01:10:08.760
I haven't rewatched this coming season very much, but in my mind's

1449
01:10:08.760 --> 01:10:12.000
eye, it's pretty damn good, and that's because everything's

1450
01:10:12.000 --> 01:10:12.539
gelling.

1451
01:10:12.600 --> 01:10:16.800
We've got a really good soft R happening, Capaldi's mastered his

1452
01:10:16.800 --> 01:10:17.699
role as the doctor.

1453
01:10:17.760 --> 01:10:20.880
Our new regulars are really good and I think there's just a bunch

1454
01:10:20.880 --> 01:10:24.119
of entertaining episodes and I think maybe that's what we were

1455
01:10:24.119 --> 01:10:24.539
missing this season.

1456
01:10:24.600 --> 01:10:28.800
My memory is that there are some episodes that aren't very good or

1457
01:10:28.800 --> 01:10:34.680
don't properly land, but I love the whole premise of the season.

1458
01:10:34.739 --> 01:10:39.420
And I think Doctor Who could have been doing that a little more.

1459
01:10:39.479 --> 01:10:44.460
Like the Pertuyera sort of stuck out as an era where something

1460
01:10:44.460 --> 01:10:46.859
different was happening for the doctor, he'd stationed himself

1461
01:10:46.859 --> 01:10:47.159
somewhere.

1462
01:10:47.220 --> 01:10:49.260
You could really see, I mean, I know it's very similar to what

1463
01:10:49.260 --> 01:10:50.100
we're getting, seriously.

1464
01:10:50.159 --> 01:10:53.399
You could really see the doctor in season 17 sort of stationing

1465
01:10:53.399 --> 01:10:54.180
Self at St.

1466
01:10:54.180 --> 01:10:54.600
Seds.

1467
01:10:54.840 --> 01:10:56.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1468
01:10:56.100 --> 01:10:58.979
And so I really, really like that whole thing.

1469
01:10:59.039 --> 01:11:01.380
And the fact that, you know, now Moffatt could just sort of help

1470
01:11:01.380 --> 01:11:03.600
himself to decades in the doctor's timeline.

1471
01:11:03.600 --> 01:11:06.300
And so the doctor's been there for 50 years or whatever.

1472
01:11:06.359 --> 01:11:09.600
And I think all of that is really great and you've obviously got

1473
01:11:09.600 --> 01:11:13.439
Missy and you've obviously got Matt Lucas and you've obviously got

1474
01:11:13.439 --> 01:11:16.680
the adorable and truly superb Pearl Mackey.

1475
01:11:16.739 --> 01:11:19.319
I'm looking forward to it, but I do think that there are

1476
01:11:19.319 --> 01:11:22.079
individual episodes that I have reservations about.

1477
01:11:22.380 --> 01:11:23.880
Same.

1478
01:11:23.939 --> 01:11:28.380
I remember it being both highs and lows and beautiful to look at

1479
01:11:28.380 --> 01:11:33.600
with extraordinary characterisations and perfect casting, perfect.

1480
01:11:33.659 --> 01:11:38.939
But then it did a typically Stephen Moffatt thing that he threw a

1481
01:11:38.939 --> 01:11:39.720
lot in.

1482
01:11:39.899 --> 01:11:41.460
It felt hastily.

1483
01:11:41.520 --> 01:11:45.720
I don't know, it's kind of like one of those very creative kids at

1484
01:11:45.720 --> 01:11:49.140
school who would write very complex things the day before they

1485
01:11:49.140 --> 01:11:52.199
were due and still get good marks for it and think that's the way

1486
01:11:52.199 --> 01:11:53.460
you're meant to work forever.

1487
01:11:53.520 --> 01:11:57.479
But I could be horribly wrong because I haven't seen it since it

1488
01:11:57.479 --> 01:11:57.899
came out.

1489
01:11:57.960 --> 01:12:01.979
But I do remember feeling it tonally, and as you say, there were a

1490
01:12:01.979 --> 01:12:04.979
lot of colours all at once, and I wasn't quite sure that staring

1491
01:12:04.979 --> 01:12:08.100
into a kaleidoscope for an entire season is something a casual

1492
01:12:08.100 --> 01:12:09.359
viewer will be comfortable with.

1493
01:12:09.420 --> 01:12:12.960
I'm going put it out there. that I think there is only one

1494
01:12:12.960 --> 01:12:18.600
fundamentally disappointing episode and one all-time amazing story

1495
01:12:18.600 --> 01:12:19.619
in that season.

1496
01:12:19.680 --> 01:12:23.520
I guess for me, the Tom is so focussed on the fact that Peter

1497
01:12:23.520 --> 01:12:27.300
Paldi was going to leave and how were they going to write in these

1498
01:12:27.300 --> 01:12:30.899
new people and they were never going to stay because Chipman was

1499
01:12:30.899 --> 01:12:31.140
coming?

1500
01:12:31.199 --> 01:12:35.100
So I didn't really take in a lot of the nuts and bolts of it all.

1501
01:12:35.159 --> 01:12:38.819
Like it's all quite, besides the last 2 part are in that season.

1502
01:12:38.880 --> 01:12:42.960
The rest of it's quite a blur for me.

1503
01:12:43.020 --> 01:12:46.439
So I'm looking forward to discovering in those episodes, what the

1504
01:12:46.439 --> 01:12:49.260
character beats are, what they're actually doing in certain scenes

1505
01:12:49.260 --> 01:12:53.880
and acting and the relationship between the characters, which is

1506
01:12:53.880 --> 01:12:56.279
as I said, just a bit of a blow because I was just so sort of

1507
01:12:56.279 --> 01:12:58.859
focussed on the endpoint rather than the journey.

1508
01:12:58.920 --> 01:13:00.659
So I'm looking forward to that journey.

1509
01:13:00.720 --> 01:13:03.359
Speaking of nuts and bolts, let's see how it all works out for

1510
01:13:03.359 --> 01:13:03.659
Bill.

1511
01:13:04.380 --> 01:13:06.899
Oh, clang.

1512
01:13:28.979 --> 01:13:32.520
Well, the listener, that's all we have signed for for now.

1513
01:13:32.579 --> 01:13:36.239
We'll be back at Christmas for a surprisingly romantic comedy in

1514
01:13:36.239 --> 01:13:37.439
The Husbands of River Song.

1515
01:13:37.560 --> 01:13:41.100
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

1516
01:13:41.100 --> 01:13:44.579
and you can keep up with us on our website, flightthroughentirety

1517
01:13:43.020 --> 01:13:47.220
com, where you'll find all our social media links, as well as

1518
01:13:47.220 --> 01:13:50.520
links to our other podcasts, including the 2nd great and bountiful

1519
01:13:50.520 --> 01:13:54.840
Human Empire, startling Barbara Bain, maximum power, and untitled

1520
01:13:54.840 --> 01:13:55.800
Star Trek project.

1521
01:13:55.859 --> 01:13:59.279
Until next time, remember that you can't really tell if

1522
01:13:59.279 --> 01:14:01.619
something's an addiction till you try and give it up.

1523
01:14:01.680 --> 01:14:05.279
Incidentally, stay tuned for news about our new Doctor Who podcast

1524
01:14:05.279 --> 01:14:07.800
project due in early 2024.

1525
01:14:08.340 --> 01:14:11.279
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1526
01:14:11.340 --> 01:14:12.359
See you soon.

1527
01:14:12.420 --> 01:14:13.199
Good night.

1528
01:14:13.260 --> 01:14:14.279
Boom, boom.

1529
01:14:14.340 --> 01:14:15.720
Boom, boom.

1530
01:14:21.779 --> 01:14:24.420
That was Flight through Entirety.

1531
01:14:24.479 --> 01:14:27.180
It'll be Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffiths, Richard Stone.

1532
01:14:27.300 --> 01:14:29.399
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lam.

1533
01:14:29.460 --> 01:14:32.520
This episode, allowed to be the doctor, was recorded on the 26th

1534
01:14:32.520 --> 01:14:35.399
of November 2023 and released on the 10th of December.

1535
01:14:36.960 --> 01:14:41.340
So, our new Doctor Who Flashcast, the second great and bountiful

1536
01:14:41.340 --> 01:14:45.180
human empire, will be releasing its third episode on The Giggle

1537
01:14:45.180 --> 01:14:47.520
just a day or so after this episode is released.

1538
01:14:47.640 --> 01:14:51.359
Check us out at the Second Great and Power for Human Empire.com

1539
01:14:51.359 --> 01:14:53.039
and we'll be back again for Christmas.

1540
01:14:57.479 --> 01:15:01.500
Yeah, I think that's the out. you think?

1541
01:15:01.800 --> 01:15:03.420
That was good.

1542
01:15:03.479 --> 01:15:04.020
That was good.

1543
01:15:04.079 --> 01:15:04.920
It was a really good time.

1544
01:15:04.979 --> 01:15:07.079
So we've done the end, except I didn't record the other thing

1545
01:15:07.079 --> 01:15:08.100
because I didn't think of it.

1546
01:15:08.159 --> 01:15:10.079
And I'll think of it later and I'll leave this setup here.

1547
01:15:10.079 --> 01:15:15.899
And I'll put just cardboard cutouts of you 3 in those chairs, my

1548
01:15:15.899 --> 01:15:16.680
sound to pounce off.

1549
01:15:16.739 --> 01:15:19.199
We can be the power of the dialect extras.