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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:52:58

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast that just isn't interested in meeting new people right now.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd.

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I'm Peter.

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And I'm the UPS battery backup for Clara's pacemaker for this one.

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Well, it seems like it was just 4.5 1000000000 years ago that we were on Scaro with all of our friends, and now here we are back on Gallifre with all of our friends.

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Let's see what we think about everything that happened in between in our series 9 retrospective.

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We may have to get started, then.

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I'm tingling for the Todd experience today.

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How about all of you?

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That's herpes.

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It started.

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So on that note, help him, do listener.

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Help me now.

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Snog Mario Void.

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The bone vervoid, the Sandverg void, or the very toothy vervoid.

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Wait, what's the sand verboid?

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The sand creatures from, um, this is sleep no more.

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This is just flashbacks to all those early conventions when we weren't too judicious in our affections.

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And the very truthy vervoid is the Maya.

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I think I'm in trouble, whatever decision I make, to be quite honest.

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I am going to avoid the bone vervoid, which is the Fisher King because I think that's one of the most deplorably bad monsters in Doctor Who history.

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But you love those episodes of Trial of a Time Alone.

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I thought you'd be bending over backwards to Bona of Earth.

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Oh, Matron.

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Um, and I guess, ugh, the sleep monsters, again, Jeremy was on that episode, and he called them eye boogers, and I just can't really get past that.

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There's some new Apple update.

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I may have to avoid them.

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And I think I might also avoid the lamprey head admire because they are truly hideous as well.

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So I think I'm avoiding all of them.

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Well, that's probably the correct answer.

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Excellent.

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You know, one of them played a draster and creature from the pit.

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It's true.

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Maya Francis.

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Oh, so naughty.

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Well, I'm going to go to a listener question.

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Oh, which is our good friend Bob Gilby.

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And Bob, Bob.

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Space 1999 reference, Peter, it's not for you.

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It's not been here.

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And I think this is very pertinent to this season.

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Which episode had the best cliffhanger and which had the best resolution of its cliffhanger?

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That's good.

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I think if we're counting it as 2 parter, it's got to be heaven sent and then hell bent.

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Yeah.

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That is pretty great.

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And do we count as a two-parter?

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I don't know.

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I think that I really like the return to form of the Zygon invasion cliffhanger because it reminds me of the aliens of London one where just basically everyone's arc hits a sort of big moment and so everyone's in peril and that's really fun and that was a great idea from Russell, I think, because we weren't going to get that many cliffhangers and so you absolutely want to make the ones that you get count.

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And I actually do like the resolution we complained that the Zygot inversion cheats by having the missile explode off screen over the closing credits of the 1st episode and we discovered in the 2nd episode it exploded harmlessly in midair.

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So much like this podcast. like this podcast.

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But I think that that was pretty great as well.

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So I'm going to go with that 2 part of having both.

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I mean, I will make a concession to Todd here that I think the cliffhanger for under the lake is pretty good.

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Yeah.

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Yep.

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Yes.

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Hashtag justice for under the lake.

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I actually think that that's my favourite cliffhanger.

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Yeah.

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With the doctor floating towards as a ghost.

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I think that's brilliant.

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In terms of a resolution to a cliffhanger.

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It's hard because besides that Zigon 2 part of where they do cheat, everything else is quite different, you know?

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It's not necessarily a continuation.

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Sure, you've got the face the raven going into heaven scent, but that's a whole episode, really.

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That is the resolution of that cliffhanger.

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I do like before the fud where you actually go off onto the bootstrap paradox and his playing of the guitar music into the credits, which I really like.

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I also do like the witch is familiar, the fact that we get the whole explanation of why Missy escaped being zapped and you get her big pointy stick.

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So I kind of like that resolution to the cliffhanger, like is just something very different.

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I also would like to give props to the end of the girl who died, where you get the camera going around Maisie Williams and her just changing as we watch her.

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So she goes from being like a happy young woman to experiencing real sadness to suddenly becoming hard, like becoming kind of dangerous in a way that does intrigue you about the next episode if you knew that she was in it going in.

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I think.

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It's nice bit of visual grammar that you still don't often get in the series.

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No, I thought it was really good.

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Whereas I was less enraptured with that than you when we spoke about it.

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And I still think it is a great shot, but in terms of a cliffhanger, I'm not sort of like, you know, on the edge of my seat.

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It's not quite a cliffhanger.

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But it does, I think this question does bring up very interesting about this season with the fact that it's regarded as all these 2 parties.

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And I kind of think that the production team got it in the head.

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We have to have 2 partters.

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We have to have 2 partters.

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Whereas back in our discussions or your discussions back in episode one with Tom, Silsbury saying, it probably would have been better to have that 1st to shooter episode as the beginning of the season, right?

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Because then you've got to hook into the season.

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Like, I actually think it would have been better if you could have still had the Daleks as the 2nd two-parter if you wanted it.

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That completely changed my understanding and viewing and enjoyment of this season, Todd.

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I absolutely agree.

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If that had been split, and we'd had Maisie, light and soft and fun with Uncle Rufus.

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In the 1st episode, it would have been a joyful New Year thing to, well, it started later in the year, didn't it?

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But a fun thing to start with and then wait for the descent of tone down to the end of the year.

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It would have been great.

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Yeah, it was a silly thing to do.

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I actually think that having the 2 episodes right next to one another works because that makes the contrast more shocking.

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I think that then we get to wait for Face the Raven and then we get to wait again for Hellbent.

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So she is spread throughout the season.

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I think that the reason that we get the Dialect 2 part of 1st is that Moffat just could not bear to leave Missy in the toy box for one more episode.

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And you're right, you know, who knows what maybe Peter knows what the production order and considerations actually were and perhaps, you know, they felt under the lake 1st and then went into the opening 2 parter.

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Okay, because you're looking at it thinking, come on, we've got Michelle.

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We've got this amazing location.

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We've got Jenna being suspended, you know, on a gurney.

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I mean, who's not going to want to watch this?

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I think creatively that might have been a nice idea what Tom was suggesting.

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But I just don't think it's that strong as a season arc.

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I don't think the story of a shoulder slash me is that interesting.

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And so I don't think I really would have enjoyed it being spread over a greater distance or more episodes.

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I think it works as a secondary arc, I think, quite well.

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And it's structured as an axle pin.

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I mean, arc.

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Yeah, dark, bite me.

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But she actually is the universal joint in this.

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Yeah.

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So, yes, I agree with you with you all.

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Perhaps episode 3 could have been Silda's 1st and then we could have had later on the season as it darkens because as we've, as no, right at the end of all time and space, there's Maisie Bloody Williams, Welshing it up.

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It's not just fear of a Welsh planet anymore, is it?

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Fear of a Welsh universe.

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Absolutely right.

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I guess I'm kind of coming from a ratings perspective because her 1st episode is the highest rated episode of the season.

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And the other one, obviously, is the 1st episode of the season.

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So I kind of think, well, had it been the 1st episode with her, then there might have been that hook into it because, like, the other arc that we've got, which is the hybrid, really isn't introduced until episode 2 rather than episode one.

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So I kind of think there would have been a great hook in terms of having her front and centre and then going into the Daleks and Missy.

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I mean, I don't know if it would work in terms of sequencing.

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And of course, the other thing is, you know, Michelle was very much in demand.

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I think she was going off to film Sabrina pretty much straight away.

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Right.

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After that.

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So she's missing for some time.

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No, I just think it's interesting to sort of think about, you know, the fact that there's all these two partisans sort of locked into this sequence, the shorter stuff could have come earlier, you could have moved under the lake before the flood because it's got nothing to do with any arc.

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No. you know, to the next slot.

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You know, if you wanted a 12 punch of having the master and the Daleks and then having a big guest star.

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An uncharitable reading of all of the 2 parties in this season is that they simply wanted less story ideas to have to come up with and workshop.

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I think I made that point.

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I mean, it's funny to me at that point.

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I don't necessarily think it's the case.

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I think there was an artistic concern here, and as we've said, many times, Moth that always reacts against what's come before.

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And so we've had single episode runs for most of the last 3 seasons and so he might do something different.

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I do, unfortunately, think that it contributes to this season feeling a little bit tired.

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I don't think it's I don't think it's directly causally related, but I just think the change in pacing makes it feel a little bit more languid at the same time as the series doesn't feel like it's firing on all cylinders.

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I don't think the individual episode quality is what it was last year or the year before.

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Not by much, just by a little bit.

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And so the whole thing makes the series feel just that little bit more laboured, even though it still is rather good.

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I think when it's good too, it's a bit exhausting.

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I mean, that's part of the problem.

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There's a kind of bleakness to it.

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And I'm not talking about the obvious ones like Heaven Sent and Hell Band.

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But even the Zygon 2 parter, which I think is good and interesting.

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It does something, the Doctor Who hasn't attempted before builds off its own mythology a little bit.

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You know, like I think it is pretty good, but it's not fun.

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Like, it's just not quite as much fun as the show has been.

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The most unabashedly fun episode is the girl who died.

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Yeah, 0 yeah.

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I think that is fun.

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Well, just the title alone.

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Are we back to Mr. Moffat's, because, you know, he doesn't mind being called Mr. Moffat or Stephen, take on writing and what was going on with Sherlock at the time, is that was still happening because, okay, that was done.

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But there's that swings and roundabout survivor, it's manic and intense, and a cat in a breeder's dog kennel, and or it really goes to what is my darkest place. a writer.

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Yeah.

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I guess what you're all touching on is another listener question from Brian says, Brian with a Y at Brian 1981, he says this.

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I think the series is brilliant.

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But why do so many people say this is the series they started to lose interest in the show?

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And I think it does come back to a number of factors.

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I think you do have I'm exhausted by the end of the season, right?

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I'm literally really, really tired.

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Like there's a lot of heavy work to do, either in terms of the storytelling and unpacking stuff, or the actual just heaviness of having your companion dying and having to get her back to a living state.

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And I just find from the zygons onwards.

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I find it really, not to say that it isn't brilliant.

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I actually probably like this season a lot more than you do, Peter, because I absolutely love under the lake and before the flood.

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The only episodes that I don't like as much are the woman who lived, which I think is a bit of a turkey in the 2nd half, and sleep no more, which I think is a brave experiment, and I don't really dislike it, but I find it tough.

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You see all the others, I think, are as good as last season, if not better.

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And I think it is actually, when I'm watching these things, all these episodes, and I've spoken about them, how many of them, I'm giving more than 8 out of 10 to.

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And when I do that, it means that I really am thinking these are well-acted well-written.

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I'm really engaged, but I just get tired.

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And I think the other thing, and Brendan said this, is that the series, Arc, isn't fun.

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You don't have a fun concept, like front and centre, you know, and I think after 7 or 8 seasons of any show, people begin to say, are you repeating yourself, no matter what you're doing, whether it be comedy or whatever.

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And I think here, you've got, you know, eight, 9 seasons in, Steven's done how many seasons, you know?

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Yeah, so five, six, seven, eight, nine.

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And you've got the same, when we've talked about this, the same regular cast coming back.

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There's no new cast per se.

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So as brilliant as it is, perhaps people are starting to get tired.

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I think there's a tendency for someone like Stephen Moffat in particular to start to analyse the show.

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And he's done it always, I think.

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He may be more than Russell is the one who analyses what it means to be the doctor and, you know, what the doctor's character is.

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And like even, do you remember the moment at the beginning of the empty child where Rose wanders off and the doctor reflects on the fact that they always wander off.

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You know, the doctors, Moffat's doctor is the one who's most aware of what sort of show he's in and what the rules are.

184
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And so this season seems to me to be very much focussed on that.

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It's not outward looking.

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We have very, very few guest stars.

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Basically, you've got missy.

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You've got all of these people back.

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You know, you've got Missy, you've got Oheila, you have a shoulder in a bunch of episodes.

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And we have very, very small cast, with maybe the exception of the Zygon 2 pada.

191
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And so it all just seems to be about itself in a way that's designed to appeal to me, but isn't designed to appeal to a broad audience.

192
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Has anyone asked her if she liked it?

193
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But even in the side on two-party, you've got Kate, you've got Osgood back, and Jenna's playing the main villain.

194
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Yeah, yeah.

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Like, you don't have new faces.

196
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Like, you do have some, but it's still a core for people. that we've seen before.

197
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It's also a production thing, I think.

198
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The palate of the season is darker and colder.

199
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There's nothing that's really kind of bright or enjoyable in the season.

200
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Yeah, it's funny, isn't it?

201
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We complained, I think, at some point in series 6 where there are a whole bunch of episodes that were set at night and it was like, oh my god, you know, is someone ever going to turn the lights on?

202
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It's sort of around night terrors and stuff where everything is dark.

203
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Here, everything is a bit gray and brown, like, and I think the magician's apprentice sets the tone for that.

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And I guess it's, you know, perhaps in the 21st shield of things, there's a little bit of colour.

205
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But yeah, there is something a bit drab about it as well.

206
00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:38.039
Yeah, maybe when I said tired before, it's not quite that, it feels a little bit drab, and I don't think that's necessarily in the storytelling, I think it's a cumulative effect, and it's also a cumulative effect of the fact that we've been watching this series for 9 seasons now, and we know its tricks a little bit.

207
00:17:38.099 --> 00:17:38.700
Yeah.

208
00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:55.259
DJ Alpha T says, Did Clara stay too long?

209
00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:59.279
Is the hybrid concept too nebulous to work as a series arc?

210
00:17:59.400 --> 00:18:02.099
It's an odd arc, isn't it?

211
00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:11.160
And I think it has to be designed in retrospect, because the whole season is about sort of finally dislodging Jenna from the program.

212
00:18:11.220 --> 00:18:13.619
And so that's why the...

213
00:18:13.619 --> 00:18:18.839
As if she's a stone in her shoe, carbuncle or a winkle that just won't get out of its shell.

214
00:18:18.900 --> 00:18:20.400
Look, I could go on.

215
00:18:20.460 --> 00:18:24.240
Unlike many people, I actually like Jenna and I like Clara.

216
00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:26.099
I love her performance. love it.

217
00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:26.460
Yeah.

218
00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:29.819
And I don't think she stays too long.

219
00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:31.019
She just...

220
00:18:31.019 --> 00:18:31.920
Sarah Jane was longer?

221
00:18:31.980 --> 00:18:34.920
Yeah, Sarah Jane was longer. to be the new Jess Sarah J, you know.

222
00:18:34.980 --> 00:18:39.299
And like, I don't think we need to change the companion every year.

223
00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:43.019
And I don't think Russell ever intended to change the cast with such frequency.

224
00:18:43.140 --> 00:18:47.339
I thought that he expected to have Chris and Billy for a while.

225
00:18:47.819 --> 00:19:10.319
But it does turn out that introducing new characters does give the show a shot in the arm and introducing the concept of the show to a new person, having a new companion come along who has to see the TARDIS and learn about it and learn who the doctor is, prevents the show from kind of vanishing up its own fundament.

226
00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:14.700
And we aren't, um, we haven't done any of that for ages.

227
00:19:14.759 --> 00:19:21.180
And because Clara had such a run-up as well, we didn't get a clean version of that for Clara either.

228
00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:30.240
Moffat compensates for the fact that he's not introducing new cast members by, as has been quite well discussed, making a slightly different Clara each season.

229
00:19:30.299 --> 00:19:54.720
I think that would have worked much better if we'd had that slightly nebulous, impossible girl version of her where she was just a generic companion with a big twist behind her, who he then added colour and depth and a love story and something really interesting to series 8, where she's the best that she is, but then he feels the need to do something different with her again when she's back for another season.

230
00:19:54.779 --> 00:19:57.180
And I think that that might undermine the character a little bit.

231
00:19:57.240 --> 00:20:01.259
I mean, I think giving the character a season-long arc isn't a bad one.

232
00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:04.619
I'm surprised that it isn't explicitly linked to Danny's deaf.

233
00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:14.880
But we've also talked about how it's actually not that enjoyable to see that principal relationship between the doctor and his companion problematized in that way.

234
00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:21.240
Like in series eight, there's friction between them, but they're getting on.

235
00:20:21.299 --> 00:20:24.359
And it is starting to get her to do bad things, isn't it?

236
00:20:24.420 --> 00:20:26.460
She lies to Danny and she sneaks around and stuff.

237
00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:31.920
So the relationship becomes a problem and it starts to be expressed in terms of an addiction.

238
00:20:31.980 --> 00:20:33.900
And then we really lean into that.

239
00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:37.920
And, you know, the relationship ends up being the thing that gets her killed.

240
00:20:37.980 --> 00:20:40.980
And that's drama, do you know what I mean?

241
00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:42.359
Bad things happen to the characters.

242
00:20:42.420 --> 00:20:51.900
It's drama, but compare it to Russell, who makes sure that with the exception of Donna, everyone leaves the show better than when they started.

243
00:20:51.900 --> 00:20:54.059
And even Donna gets to win the lottery.

244
00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:56.400
So yeah, Adam's got the stuff in his head.

245
00:20:56.460 --> 00:20:59.700
Yeah, Adam's got a big thing in his head, the whole thing. everyone's much better off.

246
00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:03.779
It's funny because it changes with Clara. doesn't it?

247
00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:04.980
Where in series 8.

248
00:21:05.099 --> 00:21:12.240
The fact that she's going off with the doctor is shown to be something fun and the problem exists between her and the people she's left behind, like Danny.

249
00:21:12.299 --> 00:21:17.880
It flips on a dime in series 9 and becomes the problem that she's going off with the doctor enjoying it too much is the problem.

250
00:21:17.940 --> 00:21:20.039
Yeah, it's a bit weird, isn't it?

251
00:21:20.099 --> 00:21:21.839
We never want that to be the problem in Doc 2.

252
00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:35.880
It's strange reflecting on this because I commented a long time ago how I felt that the Clara character got progressively worse as the series went on and my favourite was always the snowman one.

253
00:21:35.940 --> 00:21:39.059
But I have a completely different take on that now.

254
00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:41.700
I actually think the Impossible Girl.

255
00:21:41.819 --> 00:21:48.599
One is the weakest character by far, and I actually really enjoyed last season's Clara immensely with that relationship with Danny.

256
00:21:48.660 --> 00:21:55.619
And I was concerned about this season that I wouldn't like where it went with her and what she was doing.

257
00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:58.319
And I actually think that I've liked it a lot more.

258
00:21:58.380 --> 00:22:01.079
And Jenna's been phenomenal.

259
00:22:01.140 --> 00:22:10.200
I guess it's only in the last few episodes where it's all resonating about her death that I get a little bit sort of like I'm over this whole thing.

260
00:22:10.259 --> 00:22:13.440
Just let's just wrap it up, which is not her fault by any means.

261
00:22:13.500 --> 00:22:30.059
It was interesting to hear, I think it was Simon say, perhaps, you know, having an alternative companion or a semi-regular, like Rigsy or something to go along with what was happening with Clara may have been more enjoyable or a bit more fun or a better way into what was happening.

262
00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:39.960
I do think that some of her behaviours are related to Danny's death and a reflection on that, and I think it is mentioned perhaps once early on and then sort of not mentioned sort of again.

263
00:22:40.019 --> 00:22:50.460
We could have had Shona, like as a secondary companion getting introduced, you know, I think that would have been good, but back to what we're saying about, about, did Clara stage wrong?

264
00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:51.119
I don't think so.

265
00:22:51.180 --> 00:22:52.559
I actually don't think so, no.

266
00:22:52.619 --> 00:22:53.940
I don't think she did stay too long.

267
00:22:54.000 --> 00:23:03.480
It was just the character beats where she ended up like at the end of last season, has organically developed into what happened this season.

268
00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:05.940
If she'd left at the end of the last season.

269
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:07.259
I would have been quite fine with that.

270
00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:12.180
There are undeniable pluses to having a character with longevity and weight to them.

271
00:23:12.299 --> 00:23:20.339
So I think those scenes in Face the Raven, where she's saying goodbye to the doctor because she's gone too far and he can't fix it.

272
00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:31.680
He can't save her, are given extra drama and emotional weight because of the fact that we have known Clara for so long and because it has to be said, Jenna is such a good actress.

273
00:23:32.579 --> 00:23:35.700
Well, I mean, I think those scenes are extraordinary.

274
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:40.920
Not that I come back and want to watch them every single day, but when I watch them, I am always blown away.

275
00:23:40.980 --> 00:23:47.579
And I like all the stuff after that, even when she has to go out onto the street and all the way in which all of that is filmed.

276
00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:51.359
Like, I really, really, I don't think it's overdone.

277
00:23:51.420 --> 00:24:04.920
I felt, tell me what you think that, um, well, Jenna Coleman speaks of her audition, and it was early in the casting of Clara that she was asked to perform 3 different parts.

278
00:24:04.980 --> 00:24:08.460
And I'm getting that Stephen Moffatt in the way that he thinks.

279
00:24:08.519 --> 00:24:19.619
And you know he's sitting down at, what, 2 in the morning, and it's still, he's there on his peloton, and he's still riding as if he's got 30 seconds to get it in, and that's, so to speak.

280
00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:34.200
And that's exactly how he how he functions that observing her abilities and the way that she's expanded the part and also been quite introspective with the part and really gone into the interiority of Clara that he's just got, okay, I'm going to throw this at you.

281
00:24:34.259 --> 00:24:36.000
Okay, let's throw this at you.

282
00:24:36.059 --> 00:24:43.079
And I know that he and Mark Gaitis would have sat there and go, just how far do you want to go with this character?

283
00:24:43.140 --> 00:24:43.859
Just what can we do?

284
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:56.039
It was almost a little darker manipulative from the writer's point of view, in the way that Sarah Jane also suffered, such as in Brain of Morbius, there was just this thing of, well, look, she's so great.

285
00:24:56.099 --> 00:24:58.619
Let's see what other idea we can put it through.

286
00:24:58.680 --> 00:25:13.380
Yeah, I think I remember us complaining around about the sort of season 6 retrospective, about how cruel morphities to the companions, to the regulars and how that undermines them in some way.

287
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:15.359
To be fair, not just the girls.

288
00:25:15.420 --> 00:25:16.259
No, no.

289
00:25:16.319 --> 00:25:17.099
No, no.

290
00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:29.400
But I think that the takeaway, and this doesn't make the intervening episodes anymore pleasant or satisfying is that she is allowed to be the doctor at the end.

291
00:25:29.460 --> 00:25:32.160
The doctor says to her in Face the Raven.

292
00:25:32.220 --> 00:25:35.279
It's not just because I'm the doctor that I can do these things.

293
00:25:35.339 --> 00:25:37.259
I'm just less breakable than you.

294
00:25:37.319 --> 00:25:44.099
You know, the doctor would have regenerated in that situation because he's the hero and the star of the show.

295
00:25:44.160 --> 00:25:51.960
So you can put the doctor in a situation where he gives his life to save someone, like he does to Will.

296
00:25:52.019 --> 00:25:55.259
You can't do that with Jana.

297
00:25:55.319 --> 00:25:59.880
And so Jenna is rescued from that and allowed to be the doctor and that's fine.

298
00:25:59.940 --> 00:26:01.859
We' not worried about her anymore.

299
00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:08.519
In fact, there's that final shot where you see the diner go, I've been one direction, the TARDIS go off in the other direction.

300
00:26:08.579 --> 00:26:12.119
This so reminds me of the scene in the chase with the Dartist.

301
00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:14.039
But it's kind...

302
00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:17.759
It's kind of like, okay, we'll follow the Tartars.

303
00:26:17.819 --> 00:26:24.240
It'll be fine, you know, but you kind of think it would actually also be quite fun to see what Maisie and Jenna got up to.

304
00:26:24.299 --> 00:26:25.799
It's their own dadist.

305
00:26:25.859 --> 00:26:26.940
Diner Tardis.

306
00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:27.599
That's right.

307
00:26:28.380 --> 00:26:36.059
I guess the thing is that it's only in hindsight, you can sort of say, because Peter Capaldion does one more season, right?

308
00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:39.299
You got to think, oh, I wish that he had more time with other people.

309
00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:53.099
Like, because 2 years have taken up with Clara, I feel that perhaps from a character point of view, if she'd left at the Christmas special last year, then that would have given the opportunity for someone new, something fresh to come in, see a different dynamic with him.

310
00:26:53.160 --> 00:27:05.519
But I don't want that sort of what if to take away from what is, what is there, which is essentially great performances, great character driven plots and some really brilliant episodes.

311
00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:19.559
So, on that note, Snog, marry, avoid.

312
00:27:19.559 --> 00:27:22.079
Bonnie, a shielder, or Jack?

313
00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:27.420
Okay, so Bonnie is Zigon Clara, a shielder is a shielder.

314
00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:42.900
Jack is the woman with the very posh voice who is unit scientific advisor in the 1st episode and then she gets killed by the and she's actually pretty fabulous, I think, and she gets killed by the Zygons.

315
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:45.180
All right, so Jack from Bugs.

316
00:27:45.420 --> 00:27:48.720
I think I would Snowkirk, she's pretty cool.

317
00:27:48.779 --> 00:27:52.859
I think I would definitely avoid Maisie Williams because she's underage.

318
00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:54.420
She can't snog or marry.

319
00:27:54.599 --> 00:27:56.519
And who was the other one?

320
00:27:56.579 --> 00:27:57.660
Bonnie.

321
00:27:57.660 --> 00:27:58.200
Bonnie.

322
00:27:58.259 --> 00:27:58.799
Bonnie.

323
00:27:58.859 --> 00:28:02.819
Well, I would definitely snog any Bonnie. anyone called Bonnie, I would snog.

324
00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:05.819
It's like Brendan's in the room.

325
00:28:06.660 --> 00:28:08.339
Very.

326
00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:11.759
So, um, the hybrid.

327
00:28:11.819 --> 00:28:14.460
Was it Tunebulusa concept?

328
00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:17.279
Do we think it was just the doctor and Clara?

329
00:28:17.339 --> 00:28:18.119
Oh, yeah.

330
00:28:18.180 --> 00:28:19.500
It has to be the doctor and Clara.

331
00:28:19.559 --> 00:28:20.160
What else could it be?

332
00:28:20.220 --> 00:28:21.779
It has to be the doctor, Clara.

333
00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:25.380
And so there's something sort of a bit ludicrously comic.

334
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:33.720
I think about the way that we keep bringing the hybrid up and you kind of go, ooh, well, is it the Daleks and the doctor?

335
00:28:33.779 --> 00:28:35.819
Is it the doctor and missy?

336
00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:36.299
Is it?

337
00:28:37.140 --> 00:28:37.680
Yeah, yeah.

338
00:28:37.740 --> 00:28:40.980
Is it Maisie Williams and that little thing in her head?

339
00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:45.180
Like, it's all kind of ludicrous.

340
00:28:45.240 --> 00:29:01.619
And there is also, like Moffat here helps himself to a change in the mythos, which hasn't stuck, but the idea that the doctor leaves Gallifrey, not because he's bored, but because he's scared and perhaps scared of what he becomes.

341
00:29:01.619 --> 00:29:04.920
Because that's not as interesting as leaving because you're bored.

342
00:29:04.980 --> 00:29:11.700
No, although I do like the, you know, you don't run so far and so fast if you're merely bored.

343
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:13.619
And I thought that was...

344
00:29:13.619 --> 00:29:16.920
But I thought that that was a good reinterpretation thing.

345
00:29:16.980 --> 00:29:30.720
We talk about how Moffatt sees something in the show and then reinterprets it and that his own episodes tend to kind of focus around or pivot on a reinterpretation of something that we thought we understood, but didn't.

346
00:29:30.779 --> 00:29:32.880
So that's that's Moffat Shtick.

347
00:29:32.940 --> 00:29:33.660
That's his trick.

348
00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:40.980
And I, you know, like, I'm not a big fan of helping yourself to the mythos in that way, but it hasn't really stuck.

349
00:29:40.980 --> 00:29:42.960
See the timeless children.

350
00:29:43.019 --> 00:29:47.880
Yeah, well, I think that that's the most egregious example of it after the war games.

351
00:29:50.099 --> 00:29:52.079
So, I don't know.

352
00:29:52.140 --> 00:29:57.599
It is a pretty thin season arc, but we maybe don't need season arcs.

353
00:29:57.660 --> 00:29:58.319
It's probably okay.

354
00:29:58.619 --> 00:30:08.460
I mean, the elephant in the room, I think, with the whole season arc is Maisie Williams and we've touched on this in previous episodes, although I wasn't on any of her earlier episodes.

355
00:30:08.700 --> 00:30:16.380
People tend, I think maybe when they don't like a shoulder, they tend to point at Maisie's performance and say there was an upscratch.

356
00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:19.319
I don't think it's a particularly great performance.

357
00:30:19.380 --> 00:30:26.220
I think maybe you needed someone with more star power and more experience to anchor a role like that, to make it more of an event when me turns up.

358
00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:30.240
But I think it's also, it's slightly odd casting.

359
00:30:30.299 --> 00:30:44.099
She's doing the best that she can, because very rarely do you have someone who starts as a young person and then grows older, be it physically or intellectually, and you cast them as a young person and then make them grow older.

360
00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:48.660
You tend to cast someone who's older and looks younger, and then allow them to grow into the role.

361
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:50.220
So she was very young.

362
00:30:50.279 --> 00:30:51.059
She was 17.

363
00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:55.680
I also think there's a thing about direction because actors don't work in a vacuum.

364
00:30:55.740 --> 00:31:02.819
And I think once you hit Hellbent and Maisie is in the hands of Rachel Tallale, the performance is all there.

365
00:31:02.940 --> 00:31:04.140
She's great, isn't she?

366
00:31:04.200 --> 00:31:06.299
She is great in that episode.

367
00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:10.559
And have you noticed how they keep Rachel for the very, very best. bits.

368
00:31:10.619 --> 00:31:16.259
I did have a vision of Barbara Eden, just then when you said actors working in a vacuum.

369
00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:21.480
I thought you could actually suck her up and put it, but it's funny because I had an image of Barbara Bane.

370
00:31:21.539 --> 00:31:23.099
Bob, Bob, Bob.

371
00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:24.180
Just keep still, junch.

372
00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:32.400
I also think Macy's really good in Face the Raven as well.

373
00:31:32.460 --> 00:31:33.240
Yeah, yeah.

374
00:31:33.299 --> 00:31:34.680
I think it...

375
00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:40.859
Yeah, I don't think it shows you when you get proper film level team behind you.

376
00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:42.359
We've already got the writer.

377
00:31:42.420 --> 00:31:50.279
We've already got the producers, we already have the actors, but when you get the director, Can you imagine a whole season by Rachel Talley?

378
00:31:50.339 --> 00:31:53.039
We'd be visiting her in her cell now, wouldn't we?

379
00:31:53.099 --> 00:31:58.200
Because of what she would have done to them or having hung out with these people for a whole damn 12 months?

380
00:31:58.259 --> 00:32:03.480
Of course, she's just come back and she's getting up to Graham Harper aged and still working on the program.

381
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:06.059
We have her for this coming season too.

382
00:32:06.119 --> 00:32:07.559
She was in today's episode.

383
00:32:07.619 --> 00:32:08.940
The Starbeast.

384
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:09.960
Golly golly gosh.

385
00:32:10.019 --> 00:32:17.819
I think, actually, the only episode where Maisie's performance for me is a little bit problematic is the woman moved.

386
00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:25.259
Yeah. because I think it's asking her to do something that's a little bit outside of her range and asking her to look like something that's not quite where she is.

387
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:38.160
Except I found the fact that she is so babyfaced in that role and we are expected to believe that she's a mother and, you know, has outlived all of these people.

388
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:48.119
Like, I thought that that actually worked, whereas a Hollywood style teenager who's playing the part, you know, Stockard champion, Greece.

389
00:32:48.180 --> 00:32:50.160
Gabrielle Carterice.

390
00:32:50.220 --> 00:32:52.079
It's 90210.

391
00:32:52.259 --> 00:32:53.640
I'm 40 times.

392
00:32:55.559 --> 00:32:59.700
Like, I thought that that contrast actually worked really well.

393
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:19.380
And so putting her in those clothes, you know, and that makeup and that hair, which just were kind of odd and off putting on her, like, I thought that that was a deliberate attempt to increase the sort of dissonance around that character, you know, how I'm all on board with that, but the performance isn't there for me.

394
00:33:19.500 --> 00:33:25.079
I'm not on board with it at all because I think the director of that episode is rubbish, whoever it was.

395
00:33:25.140 --> 00:33:32.220
And I just go back to the stunt double of Peter Capaldi on the horse and it's just so appalling.

396
00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:34.200
And so you're giving him too much credit.

397
00:33:34.259 --> 00:33:36.299
It's just serendipity that that's the way it's worked out.

398
00:33:36.359 --> 00:33:38.160
Sorry, I'm being really harsh.

399
00:33:38.220 --> 00:33:41.039
You should have gotten to grind against Monster Peladon, part four.

400
00:33:41.099 --> 00:33:52.380
Well, we made the point that there didn't seem to be enough coverage or something in the final scene. and the final scene is kind of cobbled together out of whatever the hell they can find lying around.

401
00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:54.000
It is a bit of a problem.

402
00:33:54.059 --> 00:34:01.380
Whereas, you know, I think that Hetty McDonald, in the magician's apprentice, the witch is familiar, does a great job there.

403
00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:09.780
I really love Daniel O'Hara's direction of under the lake and before the flood myself, which I just think is a great under siege story.

404
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:13.800
And of course, Rachel at the end, and Face the Raven.

405
00:34:13.860 --> 00:34:17.280
And the Zygon 2 parter is competently handled as well, you know?

406
00:34:17.340 --> 00:34:30.179
It's just that that very last two-hander, at the very end of the season, the ears on the Toby jug, when you have Capaldi and Williams together, and I agree with you.

407
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:34.559
I thought this girl, but we have to remember she's Welsh, so bitter.

408
00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:37.380
And an actor does it with their eyes.

409
00:34:37.500 --> 00:34:40.440
We talked about this way back in 2014 with Billy Hart.

410
00:34:40.500 --> 00:34:41.820
She gets it.

411
00:34:41.880 --> 00:34:51.360
She's matching Peter's eye line, as I'm doing right now, and she's, and she's pitching it exactly. what I'm here for.

412
00:34:51.420 --> 00:34:54.179
And she's pitching it exactly note for note.

413
00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:56.940
And it's a lovely little cantata.

414
00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:00.960
It's a lovely little dance that they're playing around each other.

415
00:35:01.019 --> 00:35:01.739
It's so clever.

416
00:35:01.860 --> 00:35:05.940
Yeah, the character finally works for me in that scene in Hell Benton.

417
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:08.519
I mean, that's the place that should all fall into place.

418
00:35:08.579 --> 00:35:10.440
It's an amazing looking scene as well.

419
00:35:10.500 --> 00:35:11.159
Yeah.

420
00:35:11.219 --> 00:35:12.719
It really is.

421
00:35:12.780 --> 00:35:19.860
And you can just see how much love Capaldi has for all of the women who've worked opposite him this season.

422
00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:22.440
And there haven't been any boy companions this year, have there?

423
00:35:22.500 --> 00:35:25.320
No, well, there's been hardly anyone else this year.

424
00:35:25.380 --> 00:35:30.539
Roof of sound, really. and Riggs in, that's it. and they tend to get horribly murdered or just...

425
00:35:30.539 --> 00:35:31.440
No, they're both okay.

426
00:35:31.500 --> 00:35:32.219
Just perish.

427
00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:35.639
Ingrid Oliver would have liked to have seen her take a little...

428
00:35:36.059 --> 00:35:37.559
Was that ever going to be a thing?

429
00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:40.440
No, no, she's busy, isn't she?

430
00:35:40.500 --> 00:35:49.500
It's a shame in a way that that character never gets to do another episode just with the doctor because I think she actually works really, really well with him.

431
00:35:49.559 --> 00:35:54.119
Speaking of guest stars for the year, is there somebody that stands out for you?

432
00:35:54.179 --> 00:35:57.059
from all of these things that we haven't mentioned.

433
00:35:57.119 --> 00:35:59.219
I mean, I mean, you can go for Michelle Gomez.

434
00:35:59.280 --> 00:36:01.980
She's obviously the one, but she's almost a regular.

435
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:02.340
Yeah.

436
00:36:02.340 --> 00:36:06.239
I actually want to give some points to Rufus Hound.

437
00:36:06.300 --> 00:36:10.739
I like the woman who lived more than anyone here, I think.

438
00:36:10.860 --> 00:36:33.659
And I actually really like what he does, you know, and you get his part explained, the doctor explains to Ashilda at the end or to me at the end of the episode when they're in the pub that the great thing about Rufus Hound's character, Sam Swift, is that he loves life and he wants as much of it as he can possibly get.

439
00:36:33.780 --> 00:36:37.380
He wants even to make the moments on the scaffold count.

440
00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:43.980
And so I think there is something really sort of fun and joyous about that performance.

441
00:36:44.219 --> 00:36:46.920
I actually really find myself liking it.

442
00:36:46.980 --> 00:36:50.039
And there aren't that many guest stars this season.

443
00:36:50.099 --> 00:36:51.900
There's hardly any new guest stars.

444
00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:57.119
And so when I think about really great turns that I liked, I'm going for like Joven Waders.

445
00:36:57.179 --> 00:36:58.920
I'm going for a healer.

446
00:36:59.219 --> 00:37:01.920
But for cuteness points.

447
00:37:02.039 --> 00:37:03.480
I will mention Zaki Ishmael.

448
00:37:03.539 --> 00:37:05.340
Oh yeah, he is cute, isn't he?

449
00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:06.360
Under the lake before the flood.

450
00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:07.380
Yep, yeah.

451
00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:10.500
Oh, and also chopra in sleep no more.

452
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:11.400
He kind of hot too.

453
00:37:11.460 --> 00:37:12.840
Oh, yes.

454
00:37:12.900 --> 00:37:19.440
Neat Moran, I want to say, he used to be in an English soap, like maybe casualty, and so, you know, you'd see him every Saturday night.

455
00:37:19.500 --> 00:37:20.460
Very pretty.

456
00:37:20.519 --> 00:37:25.500
Yeah, I think you've touched on a lot of the standout performances in terms of guest stars.

457
00:37:25.559 --> 00:37:30.300
Obviously, we've still got the Christmas special and I think Matt Lucas does a great job.

458
00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:38.639
There is Nardal to come back. and I think Ramon is also quite a good gift to particular episode.

459
00:37:38.699 --> 00:37:45.659
And who can forget the doctor's mother played by Linda Broughton in the final episode?

460
00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:46.739
I can't remember her.

461
00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:50.820
The old woman in the barn.

462
00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:52.559
I'm just being stupid.

463
00:37:52.619 --> 00:37:53.699
She's so great.

464
00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:56.219
That's nanny from father to father, isn't it?

465
00:37:56.280 --> 00:38:00.840
She gets only been in Lyman if you've gotten a pitchfork and come out of him out of the darkness.

466
00:38:00.900 --> 00:38:06.300
So I decided she was a returning character because we hear her speak in listening.

467
00:38:06.300 --> 00:38:07.800
So she doesn't come out.

468
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:09.300
The Rani.

469
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:12.900
It's not the doctor's mother. like the doctor's nanny or whatever she happens to be.

470
00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:16.019
And Tenaya Miller also has to be mentioned.

471
00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:16.739
Oh, yes.

472
00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:17.579
God, yes.

473
00:38:17.639 --> 00:38:21.300
Actually, I don't think she's got a great role, but I'm so delighted to see.

474
00:38:21.420 --> 00:38:22.559
Oh, she's so terrific.

475
00:38:22.619 --> 00:38:28.800
And she was absolutely my 1st pick as the doctor for quite a long time and maybe it's not too late.

476
00:38:28.860 --> 00:38:29.880
We'll see what happens.

477
00:38:30.179 --> 00:38:34.380
What do you think about finding Gallifrey here at the end of the season?

478
00:38:34.440 --> 00:38:37.079
Like, I think it just comes out of nowhere.

479
00:38:37.139 --> 00:38:39.420
Like the whole confession dial thing.

480
00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:42.480
Suddenly we can transport ourselves to gum afraid.

481
00:38:42.539 --> 00:38:46.619
Like at the end of time, like, I mean, I care so little that it washes over me.

482
00:38:46.679 --> 00:38:51.000
I think we know why the casual viewers were saying what?

483
00:38:51.059 --> 00:38:57.059
And yeah, maybe that's why it hasn't got the love that other seasons had because it is asking a lot.

484
00:38:57.119 --> 00:38:58.980
You disagree?

485
00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:03.719
I only want to go back to Gallifrey, if it's deadly assassin style intrigue.

486
00:39:03.780 --> 00:39:06.300
I don't want to go under any other circumstances.

487
00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:07.019
No, I do.

488
00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:08.760
Invasion of time. crappiness.

489
00:39:08.820 --> 00:39:10.260
I run around.

490
00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:12.840
I absolutely hate Gallifrey.

491
00:39:12.900 --> 00:39:13.679
I think it's really terrible.

492
00:39:13.739 --> 00:39:20.400
I think the new series gets to do it once, and I think that this was a reasonable approach.

493
00:39:20.460 --> 00:39:34.320
I like the way that things ended in the end of time, part 2, where it's revealed that the time lords are actually far, far worse than anything else that the doctors ever encountered. talking about Timothy Dalton?

494
00:39:34.380 --> 00:39:35.039
Yeah, yeah.

495
00:39:35.099 --> 00:39:40.980
Well, just that the time lords essentially want to kill everyone and ascend into a sort of higher plane.

496
00:39:41.039 --> 00:39:44.400
They're more destructive and evil than the daleks ever were.

497
00:39:44.699 --> 00:39:47.760
And David Tennant, I think, sells that really well in his reaction.

498
00:39:47.820 --> 00:39:53.159
Moffatt plays that down because he needs them to have a role in Day of the Doctor.

499
00:39:53.159 --> 00:40:01.739
And he also gives them that important role in Time of the Doctor, which is actually alluded to, isn't it, in Hell Band?

500
00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:12.300
I don't mind this version of Gallifre in Hellbent, but I would dearly like to never hear of Gallifre again.

501
00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:17.460
And I think probably because Gibnal destroyed it again for some reason.

502
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:22.440
We probably won't ever have to worry about seeing it again.

503
00:40:22.500 --> 00:40:23.820
Good.

504
00:40:30.239 --> 00:40:32.880
It's time for Storm Mary Void.

505
00:40:32.940 --> 00:40:33.780
You ready?

506
00:40:33.960 --> 00:40:35.940
The hybrid.

507
00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:38.519
The Raven, or me?

508
00:40:38.579 --> 00:40:40.139
Hello, you.

509
00:40:40.500 --> 00:40:42.840
You can take that however you want.

510
00:40:45.900 --> 00:40:51.719
Well, if we're talking about the cruelty of anything caged that was meant to fly.

511
00:40:51.780 --> 00:41:01.559
I do like the idea of them all buggering off and I'd probably end up with a much, much younger wrestle on because early career pretty damn fine.

512
00:41:01.619 --> 00:41:04.079
Yeah, no, not the only one here, footy legs.

513
00:41:04.139 --> 00:41:08.519
So not that this was necessarily my question, but we had we had the raven.

514
00:41:08.579 --> 00:41:16.079
It was getting a bit Harry Potter, wasn't it, with downtown alley and all of that sort of, oh, it's getting very cute now.

515
00:41:16.139 --> 00:41:17.039
Am I annoyed by this?

516
00:41:17.099 --> 00:41:18.480
Yeah, a little bit.

517
00:41:18.539 --> 00:41:19.860
My favourite episode, Laziza.

518
00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:23.159
You like the Daikon radish alley, yeah.

519
00:41:23.219 --> 00:41:24.539
Who are the other ones?

520
00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:25.860
Toddy that we can love?

521
00:41:25.920 --> 00:41:26.460
The Raven?

522
00:41:26.519 --> 00:41:27.360
The hybrid?

523
00:41:27.420 --> 00:41:28.320
The hybrid.

524
00:41:28.380 --> 00:41:34.260
See, I just see that as a plumbing attachment for when your Mila washing machine just keeps chugging back all the things.

525
00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:39.900
A hybrid is, hybrid is one of those little things that you just add on to the end to try and stop the sluice from flowing.

526
00:41:39.960 --> 00:41:41.699
We never really know what the hybrid is though, do we?

527
00:41:41.760 --> 00:41:46.679
I think I think it has to be the doctor and Clara, just given how the season is structured.

528
00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:57.360
And we do advance that theory at the end of hell band and it does motivate the doctor to say, all right, we have to stop here.

529
00:41:57.480 --> 00:42:06.840
So I think it is his realisation that the hybrid is him and Clara that ends that relationship that makes him realise that it has to stop.

530
00:42:06.900 --> 00:42:08.940
So yes, it's them.

531
00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:11.460
So you have to snorgle, marry, or avoid them.

532
00:42:11.579 --> 00:42:16.320
I want it to be the DARDIS and the DARDIS or the dinosaur.

533
00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:27.420
I kind of like the idea of the sisterhood also, you know, just hanging out with them.

534
00:42:27.480 --> 00:42:28.500
Can I have one of them as well?

535
00:42:28.559 --> 00:42:34.139
Well, I kind of like the fact that she's still around 4.50000000 years later as well at the end of time.

536
00:42:34.199 --> 00:42:37.199
Sounds to me like Richard wants to give a healer a no hickey.

537
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:39.960
I'm getting ouch.

538
00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:48.420
I just love that she has not mellowed her sass, you know, in the whole quarter of the universe's entire lifespan.

539
00:42:48.539 --> 00:42:50.760
She's not dropped the sass one minute.

540
00:42:50.820 --> 00:42:52.500
Doesn't she say, come and face me, boy?

541
00:42:52.860 --> 00:42:54.960
She is so good.

542
00:42:55.019 --> 00:42:56.099
She is so great.

543
00:42:56.159 --> 00:43:05.579
We talked about her at great length in our episode on night of the doctor because she is just so spectacular in that tiny, tiny.

544
00:43:05.699 --> 00:43:06.179
So good.

545
00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:09.300
She's so good. and I'm so happy that he brings her back.

546
00:43:09.300 --> 00:43:11.460
I'm like, slap Paul McGann.

547
00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:11.880
Exactly.

548
00:43:12.960 --> 00:43:17.820
And he progressively brings her into the program. main program, which is amazing.

549
00:43:17.880 --> 00:43:18.719
Wonderful.

550
00:43:18.780 --> 00:43:19.380
Just wonderful.

551
00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:20.280
Very subtle.

552
00:43:20.340 --> 00:43:25.860
Okay, we're just going to quickly run through a few episodes, just your takeaways on these.

553
00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:28.019
So let's start.

554
00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:30.360
The Magician's Apprentice, the witch is familiar.

555
00:43:30.420 --> 00:43:34.500
So my takeaways from that are Dalek Pooh and Davros Jones.

556
00:43:34.920 --> 00:43:37.260
My name is Davros.

557
00:43:37.320 --> 00:43:38.579
Davros.

558
00:43:38.940 --> 00:43:42.360
It's a very common name, actually, with someone else altogether.

559
00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:45.420
When Davos was taken out of his wheelchair.

560
00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:49.860
At the time, I kind of went, oh, is that the right thing to do?

561
00:43:49.920 --> 00:44:02.219
Like, I mean, they obviously had the doctor in Doveros's chair and the fun side of that, but when I saw that, even at the time I was a little, I was wondering if the doctor was mashing up the bits of Davros's legs that were left when he was in the chair.

562
00:44:02.280 --> 00:44:02.940
Yeah.

563
00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:04.980
Yeah, I think that's probably a bit yucky.

564
00:44:05.039 --> 00:44:11.639
Like, I guess for me, it's the opening of episode 2 with Missy and Clara.

565
00:44:11.699 --> 00:44:14.820
And in fact, they're pairing all the way through is really, really fun.

566
00:44:14.940 --> 00:44:18.300
Takes us right back to the thank you, Miss Grant.

567
00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:19.920
It's really good, is it?

568
00:44:19.980 --> 00:44:25.260
Because Clara usually bosses the doctor around and is always a sort of step ahead of him.

569
00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:30.360
And so having Missy just kind of gleefully tormenting her.

570
00:44:30.420 --> 00:44:36.900
The moment when she pushes it down the hole in order to test how deep it is, is so superb.

571
00:44:36.960 --> 00:44:37.860
It's just the best thing.

572
00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:39.840
A cathartic fan experience.

573
00:44:39.900 --> 00:44:40.679
Yeah, yeah.

574
00:44:40.739 --> 00:44:43.139
And also that sort of weird...

575
00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:50.940
But that weird thing where you see the camera going around and around at the beginning of the episode, you've got no idea why and then you realise it's Clara upside down.

576
00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:53.219
Like being hung from her ankles.

577
00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:54.780
It's so great. so much fun.

578
00:44:54.900 --> 00:44:55.739
That's my favourite thing.

579
00:44:55.800 --> 00:44:57.719
Is that your favourite thing to enjoy in those days?

580
00:44:57.780 --> 00:44:59.639
Isn't that your favourite thing in the season?

581
00:44:59.699 --> 00:45:01.739
Well, it's my favourite thing in that 2 parter.

582
00:45:01.800 --> 00:45:03.960
Oh yeah, like, I mean, they're dynamic.

583
00:45:04.139 --> 00:45:05.400
Wonderful, wonderful.

584
00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:07.679
All right, under the lake before the flood.

585
00:45:07.739 --> 00:45:16.019
It's very TRAD, and I think it does a reasonable job of giving Capoldi a base under siege.

586
00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:19.800
And I think there are some good characters.

587
00:45:19.860 --> 00:45:36.780
It's been, we always end up back at the Impossible Planet, don't we, when we're talking about bases under siege in the new series and that no one, not even Russell himself in Waters of Mars, manages to get as well-defined a group of characters together to be in the base under siege.

588
00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:46.800
But I have to say that this kind of does have interesting characters and memorable ones and in a way that is unique in this season.

589
00:45:46.860 --> 00:45:51.539
So I think it's important to the season, but it's not my favourite, I would say.

590
00:45:51.599 --> 00:45:56.099
I don't dislike it, but I don't particularly like it either.

591
00:45:56.159 --> 00:46:01.139
It never seems to really fire on all cylinders and I think the Fisher King is a problem.

592
00:46:01.199 --> 00:46:02.639
Oh, the Fisher King is terrible, yeah.

593
00:46:02.699 --> 00:46:07.619
So I'm going to be completely different listeners and say this is my favourite 2 parter.

594
00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:09.059
It's not written by Stephen Moffatt.

595
00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:14.579
That's an in season 2 parter that doesn't start the season or anything like that.

596
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:19.260
I have to go all the way back to human nature, family of blood.

597
00:46:19.380 --> 00:46:21.059
Like that's how much I really love it.

598
00:46:21.119 --> 00:46:22.920
I love the fact that it is a base under siege.

599
00:46:22.980 --> 00:46:24.840
I like the fact that I do engage with the characters.

600
00:46:24.900 --> 00:46:26.039
We've got a deaf character in there.

601
00:46:26.099 --> 00:46:28.199
I loved that, being a point of difference.

602
00:46:28.260 --> 00:46:33.119
I thought Capaldi was firing on all cylinders, no matter what anybody thinks of that scene where he's got his little flashcards.

603
00:46:33.179 --> 00:46:33.659
I love that.

604
00:46:33.719 --> 00:46:34.980
I love the cliffhanger.

605
00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:36.360
I love the bootstrack paradise.

606
00:46:36.420 --> 00:46:41.519
I love the fact that the Fisher King is just so crap and just scans there to just be just drown.

607
00:46:41.579 --> 00:46:43.500
Like, I just think that I just burst out laughing.

608
00:46:43.559 --> 00:46:44.280
That's hilarious.

609
00:46:44.340 --> 00:46:46.380
I just enjoy those episodes so much.

610
00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:53.159
And the fact that we have no crap about the hybrid or any other thing, just I can just enjoy it for what it is and I really do love it.

611
00:46:53.219 --> 00:46:56.519
And if I think if I didn't, then the season would be much lower down.

612
00:46:56.579 --> 00:46:59.219
And so told us now I put away his flashcards.

613
00:46:59.639 --> 00:47:04.139
All right, our next two-parter, the girl who died, the woman who lived.

614
00:47:04.199 --> 00:47:05.159
What's our takeaway?

615
00:47:05.340 --> 00:47:09.059
First one's fun. 2nd one's not so fun.

616
00:47:09.179 --> 00:47:11.159
I think the 1st one's really properly good.

617
00:47:11.159 --> 00:47:13.260
And I like what it says about the doctor.

618
00:47:13.320 --> 00:47:17.039
And I think the 2nd one has something different to say about the doctor.

619
00:47:17.039 --> 00:47:21.059
And I like the fact that both of them are short story length.

620
00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:34.440
You know, they're not a Doctor Who adventure, which I think almost nothing in this season is a Doctor Who adventure probably apart from the Zygon 2 parter and the under the lake 2 parter, everything else is something quite different.

621
00:47:34.500 --> 00:47:42.179
You know, like I think they have interesting ideas in them and I like them more, I think, than most people.

622
00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:46.800
I don't know, like I'm someone who does want more boom towns.

623
00:47:46.860 --> 00:47:54.179
Okay, want more episodes that are just character pieces where there's very little Doctor Whoness going on.

624
00:47:54.239 --> 00:47:56.519
Or episodes of the quality of Boomtown would be great.

625
00:47:56.639 --> 00:47:57.539
Yeah, that would be good too.

626
00:47:57.659 --> 00:48:02.699
But I think Boomtown only works if you then have those characters seeded earlier on in a bigger venture.

627
00:48:02.760 --> 00:48:04.559
So they can only happen so often.

628
00:48:04.619 --> 00:48:10.019
Otherwise, you're looking like you're doing like a one episode sequel to whatever that is too often.

629
00:48:10.079 --> 00:48:12.420
Yeah, maybe that's what the woman who lived is.

630
00:48:12.480 --> 00:48:16.980
Like I can imagine it as a short story about a shilder.

631
00:48:17.039 --> 00:48:22.559
There was probably an anthology of short stories about a Schilder released around about this time.

632
00:48:22.619 --> 00:48:25.619
I think, yeah. which surprised me if they weren't.

633
00:48:25.679 --> 00:48:28.260
It feels like the season should be taking off at that point.

634
00:48:28.320 --> 00:48:29.639
For me, it doesn't.

635
00:48:29.699 --> 00:48:30.780
It feels a bit sluggish.

636
00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:33.659
Well, certainly the woman who lived is bleak.

637
00:48:34.019 --> 00:48:44.219
And it's bleak not just because of a shilder, but because also that a shilder is being used to illustrate the doctor's character and certain tendencies in the doctor's character.

638
00:48:44.280 --> 00:48:46.260
So everyone's a little bit miserable, I think.

639
00:48:46.500 --> 00:48:51.360
I guess my take on that is that I liked the girl who died a lot more this time through.

640
00:48:51.420 --> 00:48:58.079
I think there's great comedy stuff from Peter Capaldi in all of these episodes, including a lot of letters down, does he?

641
00:48:58.139 --> 00:49:01.079
No, especially in the woman who lived, which I think is its strength.

642
00:49:01.139 --> 00:49:09.719
But that is probably my least slight episode of the season, simply because of the 2nd half of the episode.

643
00:49:09.780 --> 00:49:13.019
All right, the Saigon invasion inversion.

644
00:49:13.260 --> 00:49:18.659
You can't have enough calamari at any banquet, can you?

645
00:49:18.719 --> 00:49:24.780
It's, look, again, it's the same thing of doing several levels of tone at once.

646
00:49:24.840 --> 00:49:26.760
I just thought we were redoing Dave the doctor.

647
00:49:26.820 --> 00:49:31.860
I actually felt it was a lot of familiarity and I wasn't getting much that was fresh or new.

648
00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:42.780
I live for those moments with Rebecca Frant and Peter Capaldi because I just want them to start slagging each other and have an entirely and he's doing proper Malcolm Tucker face the whole way through.

649
00:49:42.840 --> 00:50:00.360
There's some beautiful moments in it and gorgeous exposition and a really lovely salient quality core of what is the morality of being alive and having to deal with this damn thing called society and what the hell do we do with it because none of us really like each other.

650
00:50:00.420 --> 00:50:01.500
So what are we going to do?

651
00:50:01.559 --> 00:50:04.860
And it's perfect and salient for our times and all times.

652
00:50:04.920 --> 00:50:08.400
But did I find it new and fresh and invigorating?

653
00:50:08.460 --> 00:50:09.360
I'm sorry, I didn't.

654
00:50:09.480 --> 00:50:15.119
Basically not here for Zygons, they're not played by John Woodnuts, but yeah.

655
00:50:15.179 --> 00:50:16.019
Also teeth.

656
00:50:16.199 --> 00:50:20.940
Yeah, my default. bothered by the teeth.

657
00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:30.059
But definitely here for that scene which gets rightly praised at the end, which is an amazing discussion of war and morality.

658
00:50:30.119 --> 00:50:31.559
Yeah, yeah.

659
00:50:31.619 --> 00:50:32.579
And sort of timely.

660
00:50:32.639 --> 00:50:38.159
I mean, and delivered with should have been BAFTA winning strength by Peter Capaldi.

661
00:50:38.219 --> 00:50:39.179
Yeah.

662
00:50:39.239 --> 00:50:39.900
Yeah.

663
00:50:39.960 --> 00:50:52.860
Look, I think that it is different. and it has a kind of real early pertwe kind of vibe to it in that it's a series of worldwide events.

664
00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:55.440
And I think that sort of works.

665
00:50:55.500 --> 00:50:56.280
It's interesting.

666
00:50:56.340 --> 00:50:58.260
It's something that we haven't attempted for a while.

667
00:50:58.320 --> 00:51:06.420
I guess the closest is aliens of London in a way, but this is much more serious than that and has gone much further.

668
00:51:06.480 --> 00:51:18.480
I mean, I just think that the premise where there are 20000000 zigons living on Earth, mostly in the UK and just going with that as a premise is just great.

669
00:51:18.599 --> 00:51:24.239
Like, it's the most ambitious premise of any Doctor Who story for a long time.

670
00:51:24.300 --> 00:51:25.860
They just about make it work.

671
00:51:25.920 --> 00:51:32.579
I'd love to think that the germ of the idea for this story was the line in Terror of the Saigons, isn't it a big just for the 5 of you?

672
00:51:35.639 --> 00:51:37.920
I think it's a really strong two-parter.

673
00:51:37.980 --> 00:51:41.820
I guess my takeaways from it are Ingrid Oliver as Osgood.

674
00:51:41.880 --> 00:51:46.440
Rebecca Front as Captain Walsh.

675
00:51:46.500 --> 00:51:48.599
The fact that Kate Stewart gets something to do.

676
00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:51.599
Moat damn it, woman.

677
00:51:51.659 --> 00:51:55.619
I don't like the whole sequence with the plane.

678
00:51:55.679 --> 00:51:58.139
Yeah, I just can't handle that.

679
00:51:58.199 --> 00:51:59.219
So that's what I take away from it.

680
00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:01.260
Alright, sleep no more.

681
00:52:01.320 --> 00:52:02.639
Sleep quite often.

682
00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:19.739
Look, I think if it was done as a standard episode, it'd be quite bland and generic, and it wouldn't be well regarded, I think that they tried to do something different to make it more interesting, again, as I said, at the time, it froze out my equilibrium, and I find that it's a plus on a minus.

683
00:52:19.800 --> 00:52:24.900
Like I find that off putting, but once I get into it, once I get past that 1st 20 minutes, I actually quite enjoyed it.

684
00:52:25.019 --> 00:52:37.260
I think I compared it to 42 in that it was a fairly generic thing that tried to kind of tar itself up by having some high concept in 42.

685
00:52:37.440 --> 00:52:39.059
It's obviously the real time thing.

686
00:52:39.119 --> 00:52:41.159
And here it's the found footage thing.

687
00:52:41.219 --> 00:52:44.940
And there doesn't seem to be a very good reason for it to be found footage.

688
00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:49.440
But nevertheless, there was something about the world that it created that I liked.

689
00:52:49.500 --> 00:52:50.639
Simon mentioned this.

690
00:52:50.699 --> 00:52:55.500
You know, we're out at Neptune. something has happened to the inside of the solar system.

691
00:52:55.559 --> 00:53:05.460
And we're in this sort of very bleak place where humanity is kind of horrible and we like genetically engineering soldiers and we're monetising people sleep.

692
00:53:05.460 --> 00:53:13.139
And there's something kind of dystopian about it, which isn't kind of rammed down our throats in a really obvious way.

693
00:53:13.199 --> 00:53:15.239
And I thought that that was kind of interesting.

694
00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:20.340
It's nice to see Mark Gatis attempt, something a little bit different, I guess.

695
00:53:20.940 --> 00:53:31.739
And I do like the idea that it threatens the audience that because we heard that sound in the broadcast.

696
00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:38.699
We're ultimately going to succumb to the sort of crummy looking sleep monsters and that's quite fun, I think.

697
00:53:38.760 --> 00:53:48.179
I'd got a sense that Margatus was really tired of sitting on comic comp panels with Neil Gaiman hearing everyone saying how freaking amazing he was and thought, I'm going to do that too.

698
00:53:48.239 --> 00:53:51.960
And I'm going to use today's own Patrick Trout as the villain.

699
00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:55.800
It was very disappointing seeing Reese Smith not play the 2nd doctor.

700
00:53:56.039 --> 00:53:58.139
Well, you say disappointing.

701
00:53:58.619 --> 00:54:05.820
I think we actually in that episode said that it was a bit of a relief. really like his patreon.

702
00:54:05.880 --> 00:54:12.539
Yeah, it feels to me as if it's a nod to other writers' styles and there's nothing wrong with that.

703
00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:13.619
That's what science fiction is.

704
00:54:13.739 --> 00:54:16.079
It doesn't quite get there, does it?

705
00:54:16.139 --> 00:54:21.659
It doesn't quite get there, but I think it's got this reputation that is unwarranted.

706
00:54:21.719 --> 00:54:24.360
I don't think it's anywhere near as bad.

707
00:54:24.420 --> 00:54:26.460
Nathan.

708
00:54:26.579 --> 00:54:30.119
I think it's full of potentially interesting ideas and setup.

709
00:54:30.179 --> 00:54:31.739
I don't think any of it comes off.

710
00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:33.179
It's actually quite a chore to watch.

711
00:54:33.239 --> 00:54:40.860
And to see something like that done go to oxygen next year because it's a very similar setup.

712
00:54:40.920 --> 00:54:46.679
Very similar themes and that's an extremely watchful and entertaining episode, whereas this isn't.

713
00:54:46.739 --> 00:54:47.519
So. what's the difference?

714
00:54:48.239 --> 00:54:50.159
Face the Raven.

715
00:54:50.219 --> 00:54:51.599
Favourite episode of the season.

716
00:54:51.659 --> 00:54:52.440
Not afraid to say it.

717
00:54:52.500 --> 00:55:01.320
I started kind of tearing up in the opening credits when I went to rewatch it for the 1st time before doing it here.

718
00:55:01.380 --> 00:55:04.260
I do that frequently during Paldi opening credits.

719
00:55:04.500 --> 00:55:06.119
Not great.

720
00:55:06.179 --> 00:55:07.500
I think it's incredible.

721
00:55:07.559 --> 00:55:24.780
And the thing that we discovered from our episode is that we took Sarah Dollard's premise, which was enough, probably, to sustain an entire episode. and then just threw it away and that that bespeaks a kind of confidence that the show has at this point.

722
00:55:24.840 --> 00:55:28.320
I love it It often gets overlooked.

723
00:55:28.380 --> 00:55:30.360
Well, because of the next episode.

724
00:55:30.420 --> 00:55:33.780
Every time I come back to it, I love the trap street.

725
00:55:33.840 --> 00:55:34.679
Rigsey's great.

726
00:55:34.739 --> 00:55:38.880
And the last 10 minutes are just compelling television.

727
00:55:38.940 --> 00:55:47.039
Do you know, I suspect you love it in part for the same reason that I love it, and that is that I could see it being done as a Sylvester McCoy all studio 3 parts up.

728
00:55:47.099 --> 00:55:50.880
It has this wonderful quality of nostalgia to it.

729
00:55:50.940 --> 00:55:55.619
It's very small scale and you could actually do it in a corner of the studio, which I think they probably did.

730
00:55:56.099 --> 00:55:59.280
And it just has that warm glow for me.

731
00:55:59.340 --> 00:56:01.139
It feels like classic Doctor Who.

732
00:56:01.619 --> 00:56:03.599
Heaven sent.

733
00:56:03.659 --> 00:56:06.239
Talking of feeling like classic Doctor Who.

734
00:56:06.300 --> 00:56:11.579
I just think the editing is utterly and totally extraordinary.

735
00:56:11.639 --> 00:56:19.800
I mean, obviously, obviously the direction and Peter's performance, but that editing in that lasts...

736
00:56:19.860 --> 00:56:20.699
The lighting.

737
00:56:20.820 --> 00:56:22.320
Why did this not get a Hugo, did it?

738
00:56:22.380 --> 00:56:23.340
Did it get anything?

739
00:56:23.400 --> 00:56:24.420
It got a satin, didn't it?

740
00:56:24.480 --> 00:56:26.699
I mean, it really should have won the Hugo this year.

741
00:56:26.760 --> 00:56:28.860
I think Sleep No More got a Neptune.

742
00:56:29.579 --> 00:56:31.019
Ouch.

743
00:56:31.079 --> 00:56:34.679
I mean, I think it's one of the best things that the show has ever done.

744
00:56:34.739 --> 00:56:41.039
I think it is absolutely the thing that Moffat planned to do on his way out the door.

745
00:56:41.400 --> 00:56:46.679
Yeah, this is like, this is me, you know, he's written more Doctor Who than anyone else.

746
00:56:46.739 --> 00:56:54.059
He sets himself these really strict formal constraints and he has the perfect leading man to do it.

747
00:56:54.119 --> 00:57:06.239
You know, it is Moffatt's tricks, the things that we are used to, but he's deploying them really well in the interest of something that has real proper atmosphere.

748
00:57:06.360 --> 00:57:11.219
I think the difference between Moffatt doing this and what Russell would have done.

749
00:57:11.280 --> 00:57:25.980
And I think, you know, the nearest thing that we have is perhaps midnight or possibly turn left, where Russell is still fun and light, even in his sort of darkest moments, they're still kind of fun to be had.

750
00:57:26.039 --> 00:57:28.860
But Moffatt is, yeah, well, yeah.

751
00:57:28.920 --> 00:57:31.980
Yeah, let's see what happens after. years and years.

752
00:57:32.039 --> 00:57:32.400
Yeah, yeah.

753
00:57:32.460 --> 00:57:37.559
But Moffatt is focussed, everything is working together.

754
00:57:37.619 --> 00:57:44.880
Everyone, uh, Talalay, Gold, Moffat, and Capoldia, all, you know, at the height of their powers.

755
00:57:44.940 --> 00:57:45.900
I think it's amazing.

756
00:57:45.960 --> 00:57:52.500
I have to say that until this point, the charms of heaven sent had eluded me somewhat.

757
00:57:52.559 --> 00:57:57.960
I always thought it was pretty good, but I didn't know why people raved about it or face raved about it.

758
00:57:58.440 --> 00:58:00.480
But I got it this time.

759
00:58:00.539 --> 00:58:08.099
I still don't think maybe it's the A plus great piece of work that other people do, but I do see it has significant strengths.

760
00:58:08.219 --> 00:58:23.460
I think it's interesting like the audience appreciation for that episode is slightly less than others in the season, like I said, only at 80, which I mean, you might say, whatever, but I think maybe because that's the nature of the story and how all of that is all edited together.

761
00:58:23.519 --> 00:58:28.739
It's always important to remember that Kinder came bottom of the season 19 season poll.

762
00:58:30.119 --> 00:58:32.400
Oh, well, never mind.

763
00:58:32.460 --> 00:58:35.940
Arch of Infinity came 3rd the next year.

764
00:58:37.320 --> 00:58:39.179
Hell bent.

765
00:58:39.239 --> 00:58:40.739
Surprisingly good.

766
00:58:40.800 --> 00:58:43.440
I like it much more than I expected.

767
00:58:43.500 --> 00:58:46.860
I had basically no memory of it and I thought it was really good.

768
00:58:46.920 --> 00:58:47.760
Agreed.

769
00:58:47.820 --> 00:58:48.960
I thought it was a lot.

770
00:58:49.019 --> 00:58:50.280
Yeah, surprisingly good.

771
00:58:50.340 --> 00:58:57.599
And it was nice to have a bit of a breather in the barn for about 20 minutes before we got back to enough of your private life.

772
00:58:57.900 --> 00:59:00.539
I love that barn scene.

773
00:59:00.599 --> 00:59:05.639
It's so funny and it only works because it's Capaldi telling it to Clara.

774
00:59:05.699 --> 00:59:21.840
So it ends up being this sort of weird, shaggy dog story about how he just sat there and waited and then some soldiers came and then the president came and, you know, like then they had big guns and stuff and and like all of that stuff is so much fun and so outrageously over the top.

775
00:59:21.900 --> 00:59:24.059
It's really excellent, I think.

776
00:59:24.119 --> 00:59:29.099
I love the scenes in the diner. melancholy music, her music.

777
00:59:29.159 --> 00:59:40.980
I love when she talks to the Time Lords, and then, um, it's that moment where he's stealing the TARDIS, and you get to look in the other TARDIS, which is great.

778
00:59:41.039 --> 00:59:42.420
Those moments stick in my mind.

779
00:59:42.840 --> 00:59:52.019
The diner scene nails the season for me because it's such, again, those lovely quiet two-handed scenes that Stephen writes so well.

780
00:59:52.139 --> 00:59:54.119
And that's another one that flips.

781
00:59:54.179 --> 00:59:56.099
You know, we Classic moth at wrong footing.

782
00:59:56.159 --> 01:00:01.800
Yeah, we think that Clara can't remember the doctor and then we discover that it's the other way around.

783
01:00:01.860 --> 01:00:05.880
It's really good Because she reversed the polarity.

784
01:00:05.940 --> 01:00:08.460
She reversed the polarity and he reversed it back.

785
01:00:08.519 --> 01:00:11.400
Yeah, no, she literally refers to polarity.

786
01:00:11.460 --> 01:00:12.780
It's terrific.

787
01:00:12.840 --> 01:00:21.780
And then just having her steal a Tardisan go off and have adventures and stuff is the perfect ending for that companion in particular, and we're not going to punish her for wanting to be the doctor.

788
01:00:21.840 --> 01:00:23.639
She gets to be the doctor and that's awesome.

789
01:00:23.880 --> 01:00:30.900
And of course, we will mention the husbands of River song because it was only broadcast 20 days after.

790
01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:38.400
It's got so much comedy in it, which I really like after the heaviness of things and but then it's beautiful.

791
01:00:38.400 --> 01:00:40.260
At the end, it's heartwarming.

792
01:00:40.380 --> 01:00:40.860
It tragic.

793
01:00:40.920 --> 01:00:42.179
It's everything you want to be.

794
01:00:42.239 --> 01:00:43.500
I really liked it so much.

795
01:00:43.559 --> 01:00:52.739
It's taking the 1st river song story where she dies chained to that wall and flipping it, changing the significance of that.

796
01:00:52.860 --> 01:01:06.300
She talks about the doctor, putting on a new suit, coming to pick her up and taking her to dinner, and that was the last time she saw him, and then they spend 24 years, you know, and derelium together.

797
01:01:06.360 --> 01:01:12.059
And so it just changes it completely and turns that into you know, a much happier ending.

798
01:01:12.119 --> 01:01:16.739
And like River's reaction to discovering that is just absolutely perfect.

799
01:01:16.800 --> 01:01:22.920
I haven't rewatched it, but I know that I absolutely adore Husbands of River song.

800
01:01:22.980 --> 01:01:25.019
So one of the best things Moffat ever did.

801
01:01:25.079 --> 01:01:35.519
I think it's interesting, like, you know, he's really wrapping up his time on the show between Galifre, finding Galifre, letting Clara go, wrapping up River song.

802
01:01:35.579 --> 01:01:40.559
It's sort of like we're about to hand over to somebody new, but we're not going to do that.

803
01:01:40.619 --> 01:01:42.119
Just get.

804
01:01:42.179 --> 01:01:46.920
All right, so we've got a couple more questions. as we sort of wrap this up.

805
01:01:46.980 --> 01:01:51.420
So, one to watch, one to avoid, one that got away in terms of episodes.

806
01:01:52.079 --> 01:01:56.099
Want to watch Hellbent because it is better than you think it is?

807
01:01:56.159 --> 01:01:58.079
One to avoid.

808
01:01:58.139 --> 01:02:01.019
Sorry, the woman who lived.

809
01:02:01.079 --> 01:02:02.940
And what was the other option?

810
01:02:03.000 --> 01:02:05.099
One that you think's gotten away, like from people.

811
01:02:05.159 --> 01:02:06.119
Face the Raven.

812
01:02:06.179 --> 01:02:08.400
I think Face the Raven is better than people give it credit for.

813
01:02:08.880 --> 01:02:10.800
It's very interesting.

814
01:02:10.860 --> 01:02:24.300
I would probably say the Zygon ones personally because my take on them was thin, but I might go back and watch the 2nd part of that and see that that might be the one that for me, but other people think it's fantastic.

815
01:02:24.360 --> 01:02:26.699
Sleep No More has great moments.

816
01:02:26.760 --> 01:02:31.739
And I think if we were 13, 14 years of age, we would have found it really interesting.

817
01:02:31.739 --> 01:02:35.940
It might just be the over familiarity of the type of story.

818
01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:39.780
I don't think the pacing or the direction is necessarily poor.

819
01:02:39.840 --> 01:02:41.699
So that might also be a getaway.

820
01:02:41.760 --> 01:02:53.219
I'm not really looking at anything that we haven't praised or that audiences didn't praise, but then, as you said, this wasn't a popular choice with casual viewers, was it this season?

821
01:02:53.280 --> 01:02:54.840
It didn't stay up there.

822
01:02:54.900 --> 01:02:58.139
No, it was impacted a little bit in the ratings.

823
01:02:58.199 --> 01:03:03.659
But how much of that we can let the door of the season when they weren't great from the off.

824
01:03:03.719 --> 01:03:04.199
I don't know.

825
01:03:04.260 --> 01:03:05.099
Okay.

826
01:03:05.280 --> 01:03:09.119
I would say watch, heaven's end.

827
01:03:09.179 --> 01:03:19.139
You can't watch it too often because it's a bit of a slog in a way, not because it's poorly written or boring or anything. very painted-y, isn't it?

828
01:03:19.199 --> 01:03:37.679
It feels like the very violent, late Renaissance, Penguin, I wanted to say Caravaggio, but the very rich, decadent, lush oils and that carroscuro, very light moment, you know, that there'll be a point of light, but the rest of the canvas is in darkness, and it paints horrors, internal horrors.

829
01:03:37.739 --> 01:03:42.059
What it does with light is really interesting, what it does with a camera is really interesting.

830
01:03:42.119 --> 01:03:44.460
What it does with subjectivity is really interesting.

831
01:03:44.519 --> 01:03:51.059
The way that it is able to give the doctor enough to do in an hour to kind of sustain our interest.

832
01:03:51.119 --> 01:03:54.599
I think all of it's like kind of a masterclass in everything.

833
01:03:54.659 --> 01:03:56.639
So I think that would be it.

834
01:03:56.699 --> 01:04:08.400
I don't really have one to avoid, although maybe the 2nd part of the under the lake 2 parter is probably my least favourite episode of the season.

835
01:04:08.460 --> 01:04:11.579
But, you know, like, I don't think that's to be avoided.

836
01:04:11.639 --> 01:04:14.880
And I think it has Capaldi in it and he's fantastic.

837
01:04:14.940 --> 01:04:17.400
And the one that gets away.

838
01:04:17.579 --> 01:04:27.719
I still think that the Zigon 2 parter is the show trying to do something interesting at such a late date and I'm here for that.

839
01:04:27.780 --> 01:04:30.659
I think that's one that people overlook.

840
01:04:30.719 --> 01:04:32.940
So sidebar to that.

841
01:04:33.000 --> 01:04:38.460
My boyfriend, Sean, was watching Doctor Who just to see what I was ranting about.

842
01:04:38.519 --> 01:04:41.039
And we watched Blink together and he really enjoyed that.

843
01:04:41.099 --> 01:04:54.840
But then, um, under his own steam, he watched Capaldi's speech from the Zygon 2 Parta, and was so swept away by it, he said, and this is why I said it earlier, he said that should have won a BAFTA, why was it not even nominated?

844
01:04:54.900 --> 01:04:57.900
He thought it was a superb scene.

845
01:04:57.960 --> 01:04:59.219
And he's a Cini file.

846
01:04:59.280 --> 01:05:02.039
And so he thinks of things on filmic levels.

847
01:05:02.039 --> 01:05:04.500
And he said, you could put that in an Oscar winning movie.

848
01:05:04.500 --> 01:05:06.179
And that would be a show stopping performance.

849
01:05:06.599 --> 01:05:08.400
Well, it would be.

850
01:05:08.460 --> 01:05:13.440
I think Peter Capaldi's comedy timing, dramatic beats this season.

851
01:05:13.500 --> 01:05:15.719
Everything he delivered this season is just perfection.

852
01:05:15.780 --> 01:05:17.820
But for me, one to watch.

853
01:05:17.880 --> 01:05:22.260
Oh my goodness, there's so many to choose from, and you've touched on all of them.

854
01:05:22.320 --> 01:05:26.940
It'd either be under the lake or heaven sent, one that's gotten away.

855
01:05:27.000 --> 01:05:45.539
I actually think Hell Bent doesn't get enough praise, but again, at the same token, I could easily choose Face the Raven, or even sleep no more, one to avoid, it's hard, probably the woman who lived, but I don't really, you know, I can watch half of that and be quite okay with it.

856
01:05:45.599 --> 01:05:46.320
So there you go.

857
01:05:58.440 --> 01:06:00.659
All right, Jenny Laird Award nominations.

858
01:06:01.260 --> 01:06:05.579
And the Bonnie Langford Award, the Startling Discovery.

859
01:06:05.940 --> 01:06:14.820
The Jenny Laird Award goes to whoever cut the trailer for this and decided to say, same old, same old.

860
01:06:14.880 --> 01:06:25.980
We mentioned over and over again. but the season comes out of the gates hobbled a bit by the fact that it's so introspective and that trailer doesn't help.

861
01:06:26.039 --> 01:06:27.480
Why didn't fans like this season more?

862
01:06:27.539 --> 01:06:29.460
All they ever want is same old thing.

863
01:06:29.579 --> 01:06:30.840
I know, I know, I know.

864
01:06:30.900 --> 01:06:33.059
My Jenny League goes too.

865
01:06:33.119 --> 01:06:35.519
The stunt double of Peter Capaldi on the horse.

866
01:06:36.360 --> 01:06:38.940
I'm sorry, it just has to, I don't know.

867
01:06:39.000 --> 01:06:42.960
There's probably other stuff that I will think about later, but that just...

868
01:06:43.079 --> 01:06:44.940
I think it was one Zygon.

869
01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:49.320
There was one Zigon trying to manage with 6 limbs.

870
01:06:49.380 --> 01:06:51.840
It's very difficult to get right on the day.

871
01:06:52.380 --> 01:07:01.139
My unsuspected delight is not necessarily the Fisher King because again, what's the point of a big carapace unless you're Helen McCrory.

872
01:07:01.199 --> 01:07:02.760
Yes, exactly.

873
01:07:02.820 --> 01:07:06.300
But as an homage to Helen McCroy, I'm so with you, girl.

874
01:07:06.300 --> 01:07:07.679
I know what he was up to.

875
01:07:07.739 --> 01:07:09.059
I agree with Todd.

876
01:07:09.119 --> 01:07:17.699
The undersea base thing being, you know, of a child of a certain age and remembering C-Lab 2020 and how much we loved it and all the Jerry Anderson series.

877
01:07:17.760 --> 01:07:21.539
It's a lot better than you remember when you watch it again.

878
01:07:21.599 --> 01:07:22.800
And there's beautiful moments.

879
01:07:22.860 --> 01:07:42.780
I love the actress, the deaf actress who plays the smartest woman on the base, and the doctor refers to her and registers her, and she just gives such a stunning performance because I guess of all people who have an impairment, she is very emotive with her face and her eyes especially.

880
01:07:42.840 --> 01:07:45.840
And so she can eyebrow Capaldi right back at him.

881
01:07:45.840 --> 01:07:47.820
And there's scenes between them are electric.

882
01:07:47.880 --> 01:08:00.780
I agree with Todd on that one Maybe my Jenny Laird award goes back to, you're trying to reboot your childhood, Mr. Moffat, by giving us 4 part 20 something minute stories, because that was the glory days.

883
01:08:00.840 --> 01:08:06.360
But if you look back, there was a lot of sitting about waiting for things to happen in those glory days, weren't there?

884
01:08:06.420 --> 01:08:08.159
So maybe that's my Jenny Laird.

885
01:08:08.219 --> 01:08:12.539
My Jenny Lad award goes to whoever decided not to cast Jenny Laird as a healer.

886
01:08:15.300 --> 01:08:21.600
Actually, it might go to Stephen Moffat for his line, Dalek Supreme, your sewers are revolting.

887
01:08:21.659 --> 01:08:22.920
Stephen, you are better than this.

888
01:08:23.340 --> 01:08:26.699
He went to so much effort to be able to include that.

889
01:08:26.760 --> 01:08:27.779
Absolutely.

890
01:08:27.840 --> 01:08:38.640
I think that my Bonnie Langford would have to go to just the absolute fan heart pounding joy of seeing that original TARDIS console room again.

891
01:08:38.699 --> 01:08:42.000
Although it's veering into a Jenny Ladd because everyone knows not white.

892
01:08:42.060 --> 01:08:43.260
It's a pale lime green.

893
01:08:43.979 --> 01:08:47.819
Well, it looked white to the black and white cameras.

894
01:08:47.880 --> 01:08:51.119
With blue floors. which were meant to look gray.

895
01:08:52.739 --> 01:08:55.319
Follow that listener.

896
01:08:55.380 --> 01:08:57.239
Barbara's blouse.

897
01:08:57.300 --> 01:08:58.079
I'm saying.

898
01:08:58.380 --> 01:09:08.460
My Bunny Langford goes to Michelle Gomez, because she is predictably the best thing in anything that she's in, including an entire season of Doctor Who.

899
01:09:08.520 --> 01:09:11.100
So my Bonnie Langford goes to the puppy.

900
01:09:11.159 --> 01:09:12.539
Isn't it the puppy?

901
01:09:12.600 --> 01:09:13.739
You're the puppy or the what?

902
01:09:13.800 --> 01:09:15.600
Yeah, you're the puppy.

903
01:09:15.659 --> 01:09:18.779
No, my Bonnie Langford goes...

904
01:09:18.840 --> 01:09:20.579
I think it will go to Jenna.

905
01:09:20.640 --> 01:09:24.899
Okay, for the fact that I really found Clara plays Bonnie.

906
01:09:24.960 --> 01:09:37.560
Yeah, the fact that she plays Bonnie and she does that really well and she really just holds her holds her own and more with Peter all season and Clara is nowhere near as annoyingly awful as I thought this season.

907
01:09:37.619 --> 01:09:39.659
And that's her performance really.

908
01:09:45.720 --> 01:09:49.260
All right, so finally, our final question, Series 10.

909
01:09:49.619 --> 01:09:50.699
Where's it with you?

910
01:09:50.760 --> 01:10:02.039
It always annoyed me slightly that series 11 was promoted as such a soft reboot for the show when we just had an extremely successful soft reboot of the show the season before.

911
01:10:02.100 --> 01:10:04.920
I may be heading for a verse Todd experience.

912
01:10:04.979 --> 01:10:05.460
I don't know.

913
01:10:05.520 --> 01:10:12.539
I haven't rewatched this coming season very much, but in my mind's eye, it's pretty damn good, and that's because everything's gelling.

914
01:10:12.600 --> 01:10:17.699
We've got a really good soft R happening, Capaldi's mastered his role as the doctor.

915
01:10:17.760 --> 01:10:24.539
Our new regulars are really good and I think there's just a bunch of entertaining episodes and I think maybe that's what we were missing this season.

916
01:10:24.600 --> 01:10:34.680
My memory is that there are some episodes that aren't very good or don't properly land, but I love the whole premise of the season.

917
01:10:34.739 --> 01:10:39.420
And I think Doctor Who could have been doing that a little more.

918
01:10:39.479 --> 01:10:47.159
Like the Pertuyera sort of stuck out as an era where something different was happening for the doctor, he'd stationed himself somewhere.

919
01:10:47.220 --> 01:10:50.100
You could really see, I mean, I know it's very similar to what we're getting, seriously.

920
01:10:50.159 --> 01:10:54.180
You could really see the doctor in season 17 sort of stationing Self at St.

921
01:10:54.180 --> 01:10:54.600
Seds.

922
01:10:54.840 --> 01:10:56.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

923
01:10:56.100 --> 01:10:58.979
And so I really, really like that whole thing.

924
01:10:59.039 --> 01:11:03.600
And the fact that, you know, now Moffatt could just sort of help himself to decades in the doctor's timeline.

925
01:11:03.600 --> 01:11:06.300
And so the doctor's been there for 50 years or whatever.

926
01:11:06.359 --> 01:11:16.680
And I think all of that is really great and you've obviously got Missy and you've obviously got Matt Lucas and you've obviously got the adorable and truly superb Pearl Mackey.

927
01:11:16.739 --> 01:11:22.079
I'm looking forward to it, but I do think that there are individual episodes that I have reservations about.

928
01:11:22.380 --> 01:11:23.880
Same.

929
01:11:23.939 --> 01:11:33.600
I remember it being both highs and lows and beautiful to look at with extraordinary characterisations and perfect casting, perfect.

930
01:11:33.659 --> 01:11:39.720
But then it did a typically Stephen Moffatt thing that he threw a lot in.

931
01:11:39.899 --> 01:11:41.460
It felt hastily.

932
01:11:41.520 --> 01:11:53.460
I don't know, it's kind of like one of those very creative kids at school who would write very complex things the day before they were due and still get good marks for it and think that's the way you're meant to work forever.

933
01:11:53.520 --> 01:11:57.899
But I could be horribly wrong because I haven't seen it since it came out.

934
01:11:57.960 --> 01:12:09.359
But I do remember feeling it tonally, and as you say, there were a lot of colours all at once, and I wasn't quite sure that staring into a kaleidoscope for an entire season is something a casual viewer will be comfortable with.

935
01:12:09.420 --> 01:12:19.619
I'm going put it out there. that I think there is only one fundamentally disappointing episode and one all-time amazing story in that season.

936
01:12:19.680 --> 01:12:31.140
I guess for me, the Tom is so focussed on the fact that Peter Paldi was going to leave and how were they going to write in these new people and they were never going to stay because Chipman was coming?

937
01:12:31.199 --> 01:12:35.100
So I didn't really take in a lot of the nuts and bolts of it all.

938
01:12:35.159 --> 01:12:38.819
Like it's all quite, besides the last 2 part are in that season.

939
01:12:38.880 --> 01:12:42.960
The rest of it's quite a blur for me.

940
01:12:43.020 --> 01:12:58.859
So I'm looking forward to discovering in those episodes, what the character beats are, what they're actually doing in certain scenes and acting and the relationship between the characters, which is, as I said, just a bit of a blow because I was just so sort of focussed on the endpoint rather than the journey.

941
01:12:58.920 --> 01:13:00.659
So I'm looking forward to that journey.

942
01:13:00.720 --> 01:13:03.659
Speaking of nuts and bolts, let's see how it all works out for Bill.

943
01:13:04.380 --> 01:13:06.899
Oh, clang.

944
01:13:28.979 --> 01:13:32.520
Well, the listener, that's all we have signed for for now.

945
01:13:32.579 --> 01:13:37.439
We'll be back at Christmas for a surprisingly romantic comedy in The Husbands of River Song.

946
01:13:37.560 --> 01:13:55.800
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us on our website, flightthroughentirety.com, where you'll find all our social media links, as well as links to our other podcasts, including the 2nd great and bountiful Human Empire, startling Barbara Bain, maximum power, and untitled Star Trek project.

947
01:13:55.859 --> 01:14:01.619
Until next time, remember that you can't really tell if something's an addiction till you try and give it up.

948
01:14:01.680 --> 01:14:07.800
Incidentally, stay tuned for news about our new Doctor Who podcast project due in early 2024.

949
01:14:08.340 --> 01:14:11.279
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

950
01:14:11.340 --> 01:14:12.359
See you soon.

951
01:14:12.420 --> 01:14:13.199
Good night.

952
01:14:13.260 --> 01:14:14.279
Boom, boom.

953
01:14:14.340 --> 01:14:15.720
Boom, boom.

954
01:14:21.779 --> 01:14:24.420
That was Flight through Entirety.

955
01:14:24.479 --> 01:14:27.180
It'll be Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffiths, Richard Stone.

956
01:14:27.300 --> 01:14:29.399
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lam.

957
01:14:29.460 --> 01:14:35.399
This episode, allowed to be the doctor, was recorded on the 26th of November 2023 and released on the 10th of December.

958
01:14:36.960 --> 01:14:47.520
So, our new Doctor Who Flashcast, the second great and bountiful human empire, will be releasing its third episode on The Giggle, just a day or so after this episode is released.

959
01:14:47.640 --> 01:14:53.039
Check us out at the Second Great and Power for Human Empire.com, and we'll be back again for Christmas.

960
01:14:57.479 --> 01:15:01.500
Yeah, I think that's the out. you think?

961
01:15:01.800 --> 01:15:03.420
That was good.

962
01:15:03.479 --> 01:15:04.020
That was good.

963
01:15:04.079 --> 01:15:04.920
It was a really good time.

964
01:15:04.979 --> 01:15:08.100
So we've done the end, except I didn't record the other thing because I didn't think of it.

965
01:15:08.159 --> 01:15:10.079
And I'll think of it later and I'll leave this setup here.

966
01:15:10.079 --> 01:15:16.680
And I'll put just cardboard cutouts of you 3 in those chairs, my sound to pounce off.

967
01:15:16.739 --> 01:15:19.199
We can be the power of the dialect extras.