Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety
the only Doctor Who podcast that just isn't interested in meeting
new people right now.
I'm Nathan.
I'm Todd.
I'm Peter.
And I'm the UPS battery backup for Clara's pacemaker for this
one.
Well, it seems like it was just 4.5 1000000000 years ago that we
were on Scaro with all of our friends, and now here we are back on
Gallifre with all of our friends.
Let's see what we think about everything that happened in between
in our series 9 retrospective.
We may have to get started, then.
I'm tingling for the Todd experience today.
How about all of you?
That's herpes.
It started.
So on that note, help him, do listener.
Help me now.
Snog Mario Void.
The bone vervoid, the Sandverg void, or the very toothy vervoid.
Wait, what's the sand verboid?
The sand creatures from, um, this is sleep no more.
This is just flashbacks to all those early conventions when we
weren't too judicious in our affections.
And the very truthy vervoid is the Maya.
I think I'm in trouble, whatever decision I make, to be quite
honest.
I am going to avoid the bone vervoid, which is the Fisher King
because I think that's one of the most deplorably bad monsters in
Doctor Who history.
But you love those episodes of Trial of a Time Alone.
I thought you'd be bending over backwards to Bona of Earth.
Oh, Matron.
Um, and I guess, ugh, the sleep monsters, again, Jeremy was on
that episode, and he called them eye boogers, and I just can't
really get past that.
There's some new Apple update.
I may have to avoid them.
And I think I might also avoid the lamprey head admire because
they are truly hideous as well.
So I think I'm avoiding all of them.
Well, that's probably the correct answer.
Excellent.
You know, one of them played a draster and creature from the pit.
It's true.
Maya Francis.
Oh, so naughty.
Well, I'm going to go to a listener question.
Oh, which is our good friend Bob Gilby.
And Bob, Bob.
Space 1999 reference, Peter, it's not for you.
It's not been here.
And I think this is very pertinent to this season.
Which episode had the best cliffhanger and which had the best
resolution of its cliffhanger?
That's good.
I think if we're counting it as 2 parter, it's got to be heaven
sent and then hell bent.
Yeah.
That is pretty great.
And do we count as a two-parter?
I don't know.
I think that I really like the return to form of the Zygon
invasion cliffhanger because it reminds me of the aliens of London
one where just basically everyone's arc hits a sort of big moment
and so everyone's in peril and that's really fun and that was a
great idea from Russell, I think, because we weren't going to get
that many cliffhangers and so you absolutely want to make the ones
that you get count.
And I actually do like the resolution we complained that the Zygot
inversion cheats by having the missile explode off screen over the
closing credits of the 1st episode and we discovered in the 2nd
episode it exploded harmlessly in midair.
So much like this podcast. like this podcast.
But I think that that was pretty great as well.
So I'm going to go with that 2 part of having both.
I mean, I will make a concession to Todd here that I think the
cliffhanger for under the lake is pretty good.
Yeah.
Yep.
Yes.
Hashtag justice for under the lake.
I actually think that that's my favourite cliffhanger.
Yeah.
With the doctor floating towards as a ghost.
I think that's brilliant.
In terms of a resolution to a cliffhanger.
It's hard because besides that Zigon 2 part of where they do cheat
everything else is quite different, you know?
It's not necessarily a continuation.
Sure, you've got the face the raven going into heaven scent, but
that's a whole episode, really.
That is the resolution of that cliffhanger.
I do like before the fud where you actually go off onto the
bootstrap paradox and his playing of the guitar music into the
credits, which I really like.
I also do like the witch is familiar, the fact that we get the
whole explanation of why Missy escaped being zapped and you get
her big pointy stick.
So I kind of like that resolution to the cliffhanger, like is just
something very different.
I also would like to give props to the end of the girl who died
where you get the camera going around Maisie Williams and her just
changing as we watch her.
So she goes from being like a happy young woman to experiencing
real sadness to suddenly becoming hard, like becoming kind of
dangerous in a way that does intrigue you about the next episode
if you knew that she was in it going in.
I think.
It's nice bit of visual grammar that you still don't often get in
the series.
No, I thought it was really good.
Whereas I was less enraptured with that than you when we spoke
about it.
And I still think it is a great shot, but in terms of a
cliffhanger, I'm not sort of like, you know, on the edge of my
seat.
It's not quite a cliffhanger.
But it does, I think this question does bring up very interesting
about this season with the fact that it's regarded as all these 2
parties.
And I kind of think that the production team got it in the head.
We have to have 2 partters.
Whereas back in our discussions or your discussions back in
episode one with Tom, Silsbury saying, it probably would have been
better to have that 1st to shooter episode as the beginning of the
season, right?
Because then you've got to hook into the season.
Like, I actually think it would have been better if you could have
still had the Daleks as the 2nd two-parter if you wanted it.
That completely changed my understanding and viewing and enjoyment
of this season, Todd.
I absolutely agree.
If that had been split, and we'd had Maisie, light and soft and
fun with Uncle Rufus.
In the 1st episode, it would have been a joyful New Year thing to
well, it started later in the year, didn't it?
But a fun thing to start with and then wait for the descent of
tone down to the end of the year.
It would have been great.
Yeah, it was a silly thing to do.
I actually think that having the 2 episodes right next to one
another works because that makes the contrast more shocking.
I think that then we get to wait for Face the Raven and then we
get to wait again for Hellbent.
So she is spread throughout the season.
I think that the reason that we get the Dialect 2 part of 1st is
that Moffat just could not bear to leave Missy in the toy box for
one more episode.
And you're right, you know, who knows what maybe Peter knows what
the production order and considerations actually were and perhaps
you know, they felt under the lake 1st and then went into the
opening 2 parter.
Okay, because you're looking at it thinking, come on, we've got
Michelle.
We've got this amazing location.
We've got Jenna being suspended, you know, on a gurney.
I mean, who's not going to want to watch this?
I think creatively that might have been a nice idea what Tom was
suggesting.
But I just don't think it's that strong as a season arc.
I don't think the story of a shoulder slash me is that
interesting.
And so I don't think I really would have enjoyed it being spread
over a greater distance or more episodes.
I think it works as a secondary arc, I think, quite well.
And it's structured as an axle pin.
I mean, arc.
Yeah, dark, bite me.
But she actually is the universal joint in this.
Yeah.
So, yes, I agree with you with you all.
Perhaps episode 3 could have been Silda's 1st and then we could
have had later on the season as it darkens because as we've, as no
right at the end of all time and space, there's Maisie Bloody
Williams, Welshing it up.
It's not just fear of a Welsh planet anymore, is it?
Fear of a Welsh universe.
Absolutely right.
I guess I'm kind of coming from a ratings perspective because her
1st episode is the highest rated episode of the season.
And the other one, obviously, is the 1st episode of the season.
So I kind of think, well, had it been the 1st episode with her
then there might have been that hook into it because, like, the
other arc that we've got, which is the hybrid, really isn't
introduced until episode 2 rather than episode one.
So I kind of think there would have been a great hook in terms of
having her front and centre and then going into the Daleks and
Missy.
I mean, I don't know if it would work in terms of sequencing.
And of course, the other thing is, you know, Michelle was very
much in demand.
I think she was going off to film Sabrina pretty much straight
away.
Right.
After that.
So she's missing for some time.
No, I just think it's interesting to sort of think about, you know
the fact that there's all these two partisans sort of locked into
this sequence, the shorter stuff could have come earlier, you
could have moved under the lake before the flood because it's got
nothing to do with any arc.
No. you know, to the next slot.
You know, if you wanted a 12 punch of having the master and the
Daleks and then having a big guest star.
An uncharitable reading of all of the 2 parties in this season is
that they simply wanted less story ideas to have to come up with
and workshop.
I think I made that point.
I mean, it's funny to me at that point.
I don't necessarily think it's the case.
I think there was an artistic concern here, and as we've said, many
times, Moth that always reacts against what's come before.
And so we've had single episode runs for most of the last 3
seasons and so he might do something different.
I do, unfortunately, think that it contributes to this season
feeling a little bit tired.
I don't think it's I don't think it's directly causally related
but I just think the change in pacing makes it feel a little bit
more languid at the same time as the series doesn't feel like it's
firing on all cylinders.
I don't think the individual episode quality is what it was last
year or the year before.
Not by much, just by a little bit.
And so the whole thing makes the series feel just that little bit
more laboured, even though it still is rather good.
I think when it's good too, it's a bit exhausting.
I mean, that's part of the problem.
There's a kind of bleakness to it.
And I'm not talking about the obvious ones like Heaven Sent and
Hell Band.
But even the Zygon 2 parter, which I think is good and
interesting.
It does something, the Doctor Who hasn't attempted before builds
off its own mythology a little bit.
You know, like I think it is pretty good, but it's not fun.
Like, it's just not quite as much fun as the show has been.
The most unabashedly fun episode is the girl who died.
Yeah, 0 yeah.
I think that is fun.
Well, just the title alone.
Are we back to Mr. Moffat's, because, you know, he doesn't mind
being called Mr. Moffat or Stephen, take on writing and what was
going on with Sherlock at the time, is that was still happening
because, okay, that was done.
But there's that swings and roundabout survivor, it's manic and
intense, and a cat in a breeder's dog kennel, and or it really
goes to what is my darkest place. a writer.
Yeah.
I guess what you're all touching on is another listener question
from Brian says, Brian with a Y at Brian 1981, he says this.
I think the series is brilliant.
But why do so many people say this is the series they started to
lose interest in the show?
And I think it does come back to a number of factors.
I think you do have I'm exhausted by the end of the season, right?
I'm literally really, really tired.
Like there's a lot of heavy work to do, either in terms of the
storytelling and unpacking stuff, or the actual just heaviness of
having your companion dying and having to get her back to a living
state.
And I just find from the zygons onwards.
I find it really, not to say that it isn't brilliant.
I actually probably like this season a lot more than you do, Peter
because I absolutely love under the lake and before the flood.
The only episodes that I don't like as much are the woman who
lived, which I think is a bit of a turkey in the 2nd half, and
sleep no more, which I think is a brave experiment, and I don't
really dislike it, but I find it tough.
You see all the others, I think, are as good as last season, if
not better.
And I think it is actually, when I'm watching these things, all
these episodes, and I've spoken about them, how many of them, I'm
giving more than 8 out of 10 to.
And when I do that, it means that I really am thinking these are
well-acted well-written.
I'm really engaged, but I just get tired.
And I think the other thing, and Brendan said this, is that the
series, Arc, isn't fun.
You don't have a fun concept, like front and centre, you know, and
I think after 7 or 8 seasons of any show, people begin to say, are
you repeating yourself, no matter what you're doing, whether it be
comedy or whatever.
And I think here, you've got, you know, eight, 9 seasons in
Steven's done how many seasons, you know?
Yeah, so five, six, seven, eight, nine.
And you've got the same, when we've talked about this, the same
regular cast coming back.
There's no new cast per se.
So as brilliant as it is, perhaps people are starting to get
tired.
I think there's a tendency for someone like Stephen Moffat in
particular to start to analyse the show.
And he's done it always, I think.
He may be more than Russell is the one who analyses what it means
to be the doctor and, you know, what the doctor's character is.
And like even, do you remember the moment at the beginning of the
empty child where Rose wanders off and the doctor reflects on the
fact that they always wander off.
You know, the doctors, Moffat's doctor is the one who's most aware
of what sort of show he's in and what the rules are.
And so this season seems to me to be very much focussed on that.
It's not outward looking.
We have very, very few guest stars.
Basically, you've got missy.
You've got all of these people back.
You know, you've got Missy, you've got Oheila, you have a shoulder
in a bunch of episodes.
And we have very, very small cast, with maybe the exception of the
Zygon 2 pada.
And so it all just seems to be about itself in a way that's
designed to appeal to me, but isn't designed to appeal to a broad
audience.
Has anyone asked her if she liked it?
But even in the side on two-party, you've got Kate, you've got
Osgood back, and Jenna's playing the main villain.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, you don't have new faces.
Like, you do have some, but it's still a core for people. that
we've seen before.
It's also a production thing, I think.
The palate of the season is darker and colder.
There's nothing that's really kind of bright or enjoyable in the
season.
Yeah, it's funny, isn't it?
We complained, I think, at some point in series 6 where there are
a whole bunch of episodes that were set at night and it was like
oh my god, you know, is someone ever going to turn the lights on?
It's sort of around night terrors and stuff where everything is
dark.
Here, everything is a bit gray and brown, like, and I think the
magician's apprentice sets the tone for that.
And I guess it's, you know, perhaps in the 21st shield of things
there's a little bit of colour.
But yeah, there is something a bit drab about it as well.
Yeah, maybe when I said tired before, it's not quite that, it
feels a little bit drab, and I don't think that's necessarily in
the storytelling, I think it's a cumulative effect, and it's also
a cumulative effect of the fact that we've been watching this
series for 9 seasons now, and we know its tricks a little bit.
Yeah.
DJ Alpha T says, Did Clara stay too long?
Is the hybrid concept too nebulous to work as a series arc?
It's an odd arc, isn't it?
And I think it has to be designed in retrospect, because the whole
season is about sort of finally dislodging Jenna from the
program.
And so that's why the...
As if she's a stone in her shoe, carbuncle or a winkle that just
won't get out of its shell.
Look, I could go on.
Unlike many people, I actually like Jenna and I like Clara.
I love her performance. love it.
Yeah.
And I don't think she stays too long.
She just...
Sarah Jane was longer?
Yeah, Sarah Jane was longer. to be the new Jess Sarah J, you
know.
And like, I don't think we need to change the companion every
year.
And I don't think Russell ever intended to change the cast with
such frequency.
I thought that he expected to have Chris and Billy for a while.
But it does turn out that introducing new characters does give the
show a shot in the arm and introducing the concept of the show to
a new person, having a new companion come along who has to see the
TARDIS and learn about it and learn who the doctor is, prevents
the show from kind of vanishing up its own fundament.
And we aren't, um, we haven't done any of that for ages.
And because Clara had such a run-up as well, we didn't get a clean
version of that for Clara either.
Moffat compensates for the fact that he's not introducing new cast
members by, as has been quite well discussed, making a slightly
different Clara each season.
I think that would have worked much better if we'd had that
slightly nebulous, impossible girl version of her where she was
just a generic companion with a big twist behind her, who he then
added colour and depth and a love story and something really
interesting to series 8, where she's the best that she is, but
then he feels the need to do something different with her again
when she's back for another season.
And I think that that might undermine the character a little bit.
I mean, I think giving the character a season-long arc isn't a bad
one.
I'm surprised that it isn't explicitly linked to Danny's deaf.
But we've also talked about how it's actually not that enjoyable
to see that principal relationship between the doctor and his
companion problematized in that way.
Like in series eight, there's friction between them, but they're
getting on.
And it is starting to get her to do bad things, isn't it?
She lies to Danny and she sneaks around and stuff.
So the relationship becomes a problem and it starts to be
expressed in terms of an addiction.
And then we really lean into that.
And, you know, the relationship ends up being the thing that gets
her killed.
And that's drama, do you know what I mean?
Bad things happen to the characters.
It's drama, but compare it to Russell, who makes sure that with
the exception of Donna, everyone leaves the show better than when
they started.
And even Donna gets to win the lottery.
So yeah, Adam's got the stuff in his head.
Yeah, Adam's got a big thing in his head, the whole thing
everyone's much better off.
It's funny because it changes with Clara. doesn't it?
Where in series 8.
The fact that she's going off with the doctor is shown to be
something fun and the problem exists between her and the people
she's left behind, like Danny.
It flips on a dime in series 9 and becomes the problem that she's
going off with the doctor enjoying it too much is the problem.
Yeah, it's a bit weird, isn't it?
We never want that to be the problem in Doc 2.
It's strange reflecting on this because I commented a long time
ago how I felt that the Clara character got progressively worse as
the series went on and my favourite was always the snowman one.
But I have a completely different take on that now.
I actually think the Impossible Girl.
One is the weakest character by far, and I actually really enjoyed
last season's Clara immensely with that relationship with Danny.
And I was concerned about this season that I wouldn't like where
it went with her and what she was doing.
And I actually think that I've liked it a lot more.
And Jenna's been phenomenal.
I guess it's only in the last few episodes where it's all
resonating about her death that I get a little bit sort of like
I'm over this whole thing.
Just let's just wrap it up, which is not her fault by any means.
It was interesting to hear, I think it was Simon say, perhaps, you
know, having an alternative companion or a semi-regular, like
Rigsy or something to go along with what was happening with Clara
may have been more enjoyable or a bit more fun or a better way
into what was happening.
I do think that some of her behaviours are related to Danny's
death and a reflection on that, and I think it is mentioned
perhaps once early on and then sort of not mentioned sort of
again.
We could have had Shona, like as a secondary companion getting
introduced, you know, I think that would have been good, but back
to what we're saying about, about, did Clara stage wrong?
I don't think so.
I actually don't think so, no.
I don't think she did stay too long.
It was just the character beats where she ended up like at the end
of last season, has organically developed into what happened this
season.
If she'd left at the end of the last season.
I would have been quite fine with that.
There are undeniable pluses to having a character with longevity
and weight to them.
So I think those scenes in Face the Raven, where she's saying
goodbye to the doctor because she's gone too far and he can't fix
it.
He can't save her, are given extra drama and emotional weight
because of the fact that we have known Clara for so long and
because it has to be said, Jenna is such a good actress.
Well, I mean, I think those scenes are extraordinary.
Not that I come back and want to watch them every single day, but
when I watch them, I am always blown away.
And I like all the stuff after that, even when she has to go out
onto the street and all the way in which all of that is filmed.
Like, I really, really, I don't think it's overdone.
I felt, tell me what you think that, um, well, Jenna Coleman
speaks of her audition, and it was early in the casting of Clara
that she was asked to perform 3 different parts.
And I'm getting that Stephen Moffatt in the way that he thinks.
And you know he's sitting down at, what, 2 in the morning, and
it's still, he's there on his peloton, and he's still riding as if
he's got 30 seconds to get it in, and that's, so to speak.
And that's exactly how he how he functions that observing her
abilities and the way that she's expanded the part and also been
quite introspective with the part and really gone into the
interiority of Clara that he's just got, okay, I'm going to throw
this at you.
Okay, let's throw this at you.
And I know that he and Mark Gaitis would have sat there and go
just how far do you want to go with this character?
Just what can we do?
It was almost a little darker manipulative from the writer's point
of view, in the way that Sarah Jane also suffered, such as in
Brain of Morbius, there was just this thing of, well, look, she's
so great.
Let's see what other idea we can put it through.
Yeah, I think I remember us complaining around about the sort of
season 6 retrospective, about how cruel morphities to the
companions, to the regulars and how that undermines them in some
way.
To be fair, not just the girls.
No, no.
But I think that the takeaway, and this doesn't make the
intervening episodes anymore pleasant or satisfying is that she is
allowed to be the doctor at the end.
The doctor says to her in Face the Raven.
It's not just because I'm the doctor that I can do these things.
I'm just less breakable than you.
You know, the doctor would have regenerated in that situation
because he's the hero and the star of the show.
So you can put the doctor in a situation where he gives his life
to save someone, like he does to Will.
You can't do that with Jana.
And so Jenna is rescued from that and allowed to be the doctor and
that's fine.
We' not worried about her anymore.
In fact, there's that final shot where you see the diner go, I've
been one direction, the TARDIS go off in the other direction.
This so reminds me of the scene in the chase with the Dartist.
But it's kind...
It's kind of like, okay, we'll follow the Tartars.
It'll be fine, you know, but you kind of think it would actually
also be quite fun to see what Maisie and Jenna got up to.
It's their own dadist.
Diner Tardis.
That's right.
I guess the thing is that it's only in hindsight, you can sort of
say, because Peter Capaldion does one more season, right?
You got to think, oh, I wish that he had more time with other
people.
Like, because 2 years have taken up with Clara, I feel that
perhaps from a character point of view, if she'd left at the
Christmas special last year, then that would have given the
opportunity for someone new, something fresh to come in, see a
different dynamic with him.
But I don't want that sort of what if to take away from what is
what is there, which is essentially great performances, great
character driven plots and some really brilliant episodes.
So, on that note, Snog, marry, avoid.
Bonnie, a shielder, or Jack?
Okay, so Bonnie is Zigon Clara, a shielder is a shielder.
Jack is the woman with the very posh voice who is unit scientific
advisor in the 1st episode and then she gets killed by the and
she's actually pretty fabulous, I think, and she gets killed by
the Zygons.
All right, so Jack from Bugs.
I think I would Snowkirk, she's pretty cool.
I think I would definitely avoid Maisie Williams because she's
underage.
She can't snog or marry.
And who was the other one?
Bonnie.
Well, I would definitely snog any Bonnie. anyone called Bonnie, I
would snog.
It's like Brendan's in the room.
Very.
So, um, the hybrid.
Was it Tunebulusa concept?
Do we think it was just the doctor and Clara?
Oh, yeah.
It has to be the doctor and Clara.
What else could it be?
It has to be the doctor, Clara.
And so there's something sort of a bit ludicrously comic.
I think about the way that we keep bringing the hybrid up and you
kind of go, ooh, well, is it the Daleks and the doctor?
Is it the doctor and missy?
Is it?
Yeah, yeah.
Is it Maisie Williams and that little thing in her head?
Like, it's all kind of ludicrous.
And there is also, like Moffat here helps himself to a change in
the mythos, which hasn't stuck, but the idea that the doctor
leaves Gallifrey, not because he's bored, but because he's scared
and perhaps scared of what he becomes.
Because that's not as interesting as leaving because you're
bored.
No, although I do like the, you know, you don't run so far and so
fast if you're merely bored.
And I thought that was...
But I thought that that was a good reinterpretation thing.
We talk about how Moffatt sees something in the show and then
reinterprets it and that his own episodes tend to kind of focus
around or pivot on a reinterpretation of something that we thought
we understood, but didn't.
So that's that's Moffat Shtick.
That's his trick.
And I, you know, like, I'm not a big fan of helping yourself to
the mythos in that way, but it hasn't really stuck.
See the timeless children.
Yeah, well, I think that that's the most egregious example of it
after the war games.
So, I don't know.
It is a pretty thin season arc, but we maybe don't need season
arcs.
It's probably okay.
I mean, the elephant in the room, I think, with the whole season
arc is Maisie Williams and we've touched on this in previous
episodes, although I wasn't on any of her earlier episodes.
People tend, I think maybe when they don't like a shoulder, they
tend to point at Maisie's performance and say there was an
upscratch.
I don't think it's a particularly great performance.
I think maybe you needed someone with more star power and more
experience to anchor a role like that, to make it more of an event
when me turns up.
But I think it's also, it's slightly odd casting.
She's doing the best that she can, because very rarely do you have
someone who starts as a young person and then grows older, be it
physically or intellectually, and you cast them as a young person
and then make them grow older.
You tend to cast someone who's older and looks younger, and then
allow them to grow into the role.
So she was very young.
She was 17.
I also think there's a thing about direction because actors don't
work in a vacuum.
And I think once you hit Hellbent and Maisie is in the hands of
Rachel Tallale, the performance is all there.
She's great, isn't she?
She is great in that episode.
And have you noticed how they keep Rachel for the very, very best
bits.
I did have a vision of Barbara Eden, just then when you said
actors working in a vacuum.
I thought you could actually suck her up and put it, but it's
funny because I had an image of Barbara Bane.
Bob, Bob, Bob.
Just keep still, junch.
I also think Macy's really good in Face the Raven as well.
Yeah, yeah.
I think it...
Yeah, I don't think it shows you when you get proper film level
team behind you.
We've already got the writer.
We've already got the producers, we already have the actors, but
when you get the director, Can you imagine a whole season by
Rachel Talley?
We'd be visiting her in her cell now, wouldn't we?
Because of what she would have done to them or having hung out
with these people for a whole damn 12 months?
Of course, she's just come back and she's getting up to Graham
Harper aged and still working on the program.
We have her for this coming season too.
She was in today's episode.
The Starbeast.
Golly golly gosh.
I think, actually, the only episode where Maisie's performance for
me is a little bit problematic is the woman moved.
Yeah. because I think it's asking her to do something that's a
little bit outside of her range and asking her to look like
something that's not quite where she is.
Except I found the fact that she is so babyfaced in that role and
we are expected to believe that she's a mother and, you know, has
outlived all of these people.
Like, I thought that that actually worked, whereas a Hollywood
style teenager who's playing the part, you know, Stockard champion
Greece.
Gabrielle Carterice.
It's 90210.
I'm 40 times.
Like, I thought that that contrast actually worked really well.
And so putting her in those clothes, you know, and that makeup and
that hair, which just were kind of odd and off putting on her, like
I thought that that was a deliberate attempt to increase the sort
of dissonance around that character, you know, how I'm all on
board with that, but the performance isn't there for me.
I'm not on board with it at all because I think the director of
that episode is rubbish, whoever it was.
And I just go back to the stunt double of Peter Capaldi on the
horse and it's just so appalling.
And so you're giving him too much credit.
It's just serendipity that that's the way it's worked out.
Sorry, I'm being really harsh.
You should have gotten to grind against Monster Peladon, part
four.
Well, we made the point that there didn't seem to be enough
coverage or something in the final scene. and the final scene is
kind of cobbled together out of whatever the hell they can find
lying around.
It is a bit of a problem.
Whereas, you know, I think that Hetty McDonald, in the magician's
apprentice, the witch is familiar, does a great job there.
I really love Daniel O'Hara's direction of under the lake and
before the flood myself, which I just think is a great under siege
story.
And of course, Rachel at the end, and Face the Raven.
And the Zygon 2 parter is competently handled as well, you know?
It's just that that very last two-hander, at the very end of the
season, the ears on the Toby jug, when you have Capaldi and
Williams together, and I agree with you.
I thought this girl, but we have to remember she's Welsh, so
bitter.
And an actor does it with their eyes.
We talked about this way back in 2014 with Billy Hart.
She gets it.
She's matching Peter's eye line, as I'm doing right now, and she's
and she's pitching it exactly. what I'm here for.
And she's pitching it exactly note for note.
And it's a lovely little cantata.
It's a lovely little dance that they're playing around each
other.
It's so clever.
Yeah, the character finally works for me in that scene in Hell
Benton.
I mean, that's the place that should all fall into place.
It's an amazing looking scene as well.
Yeah.
It really is.
And you can just see how much love Capaldi has for all of the
women who've worked opposite him this season.
And there haven't been any boy companions this year, have there?
No, well, there's been hardly anyone else this year.
Roof of sound, really. and Riggs in, that's it. and they tend to
get horribly murdered or just...
No, they're both okay.
Just perish.
Ingrid Oliver would have liked to have seen her take a little...
Was that ever going to be a thing?
No, no, she's busy, isn't she?
It's a shame in a way that that character never gets to do another
episode just with the doctor because I think she actually works
really, really well with him.
Speaking of guest stars for the year, is there somebody that
stands out for you?
from all of these things that we haven't mentioned.
I mean, I mean, you can go for Michelle Gomez.
She's obviously the one, but she's almost a regular.
Yeah.
I actually want to give some points to Rufus Hound.
I like the woman who lived more than anyone here, I think.
And I actually really like what he does, you know, and you get his
part explained, the doctor explains to Ashilda at the end or to me
at the end of the episode when they're in the pub that the great
thing about Rufus Hound's character, Sam Swift, is that he loves
life and he wants as much of it as he can possibly get.
He wants even to make the moments on the scaffold count.
And so I think there is something really sort of fun and joyous
about that performance.
I actually really find myself liking it.
And there aren't that many guest stars this season.
There's hardly any new guest stars.
And so when I think about really great turns that I liked, I'm
going for like Joven Waders.
I'm going for a healer.
But for cuteness points.
I will mention Zaki Ishmael.
Oh yeah, he is cute, isn't he?
Under the lake before the flood.
Yep, yeah.
Oh, and also chopra in sleep no more.
He kind of hot too.
Oh, yes.
Neat Moran, I want to say, he used to be in an English soap, like
maybe casualty, and so, you know, you'd see him every Saturday
night.
Very pretty.
Yeah, I think you've touched on a lot of the standout performances
in terms of guest stars.
Obviously, we've still got the Christmas special and I think Matt
Lucas does a great job.
There is Nardal to come back. and I think Ramon is also quite a
good gift to particular episode.
And who can forget the doctor's mother played by Linda Broughton
in the final episode?
I can't remember her.
The old woman in the barn.
I'm just being stupid.
She's so great.
That's nanny from father to father, isn't it?
She gets only been in Lyman if you've gotten a pitchfork and come
out of him out of the darkness.
So I decided she was a returning character because we hear her
speak in listening.
So she doesn't come out.
The Rani.
It's not the doctor's mother. like the doctor's nanny or whatever
she happens to be.
And Tenaya Miller also has to be mentioned.
Oh, yes.
God, yes.
Actually, I don't think she's got a great role, but I'm so
delighted to see.
Oh, she's so terrific.
And she was absolutely my 1st pick as the doctor for quite a long
time and maybe it's not too late.
We'll see what happens.
What do you think about finding Gallifrey here at the end of the
season?
Like, I think it just comes out of nowhere.
Like the whole confession dial thing.
Suddenly we can transport ourselves to gum afraid.
Like at the end of time, like, I mean, I care so little that it
washes over me.
I think we know why the casual viewers were saying what?
And yeah, maybe that's why it hasn't got the love that other
seasons had because it is asking a lot.
You disagree?
I only want to go back to Gallifrey, if it's deadly assassin style
intrigue.
I don't want to go under any other circumstances.
No, I do.
Invasion of time. crappiness.
I run around.
I absolutely hate Gallifrey.
I think it's really terrible.
I think the new series gets to do it once, and I think that this
was a reasonable approach.
I like the way that things ended in the end of time, part 2, where
it's revealed that the time lords are actually far, far worse than
anything else that the doctors ever encountered. talking about
Timothy Dalton?
Yeah, yeah.
Well, just that the time lords essentially want to kill everyone
and ascend into a sort of higher plane.
They're more destructive and evil than the daleks ever were.
And David Tennant, I think, sells that really well in his
reaction.
Moffatt plays that down because he needs them to have a role in
Day of the Doctor.
And he also gives them that important role in Time of the Doctor
which is actually alluded to, isn't it, in Hell Band?
I don't mind this version of Gallifre in Hellbent, but I would
dearly like to never hear of Gallifre again.
And I think probably because Gibnal destroyed it again for some
reason.
We probably won't ever have to worry about seeing it again.
Good.
It's time for Storm Mary Void.
You ready?
The hybrid.
The Raven, or me?
Hello, you.
You can take that however you want.
Well, if we're talking about the cruelty of anything caged that
was meant to fly.
I do like the idea of them all buggering off and I'd probably end
up with a much, much younger wrestle on because early career
pretty damn fine.
Yeah, no, not the only one here, footy legs.
So not that this was necessarily my question, but we had we had
the raven.
It was getting a bit Harry Potter, wasn't it, with downtown alley
and all of that sort of, oh, it's getting very cute now.
Am I annoyed by this?
Yeah, a little bit.
My favourite episode, Laziza.
You like the Daikon radish alley, yeah.
Who are the other ones?
Toddy that we can love?
The Raven?
The hybrid?
The hybrid.
See, I just see that as a plumbing attachment for when your Mila
washing machine just keeps chugging back all the things.
A hybrid is, hybrid is one of those little things that you just
add on to the end to try and stop the sluice from flowing.
We never really know what the hybrid is though, do we?
I think I think it has to be the doctor and Clara, just given how
the season is structured.
And we do advance that theory at the end of hell band and it does
motivate the doctor to say, all right, we have to stop here.
So I think it is his realisation that the hybrid is him and Clara
that ends that relationship that makes him realise that it has to
stop.
So yes, it's them.
So you have to snorgle, marry, or avoid them.
I want it to be the DARDIS and the DARDIS or the dinosaur.
I kind of like the idea of the sisterhood also, you know, just
hanging out with them.
Can I have one of them as well?
Well, I kind of like the fact that she's still around 4.50000000
years later as well at the end of time.
Sounds to me like Richard wants to give a healer a no hickey.
I'm getting ouch.
I just love that she has not mellowed her sass, you know, in the
whole quarter of the universe's entire lifespan.
She's not dropped the sass one minute.
Doesn't she say, come and face me, boy?
She is so good.
She is so great.
We talked about her at great length in our episode on night of the
doctor because she is just so spectacular in that tiny, tiny.
So good.
She's so good. and I'm so happy that he brings her back.
I'm like, slap Paul McGann.
Exactly.
And he progressively brings her into the program. main program
which is amazing.
Wonderful.
Just wonderful.
Very subtle.
Okay, we're just going to quickly run through a few episodes, just
your takeaways on these.
So let's start.
The Magician's Apprentice, the witch is familiar.
So my takeaways from that are Dalek Pooh and Davros Jones.
My name is Davros.
Davros.
It's a very common name, actually, with someone else altogether.
When Davos was taken out of his wheelchair.
At the time, I kind of went, oh, is that the right thing to do?
Like, I mean, they obviously had the doctor in Doveros's chair and
the fun side of that, but when I saw that, even at the time I was
a little, I was wondering if the doctor was mashing up the bits of
Davros's legs that were left when he was in the chair.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that's probably a bit yucky.
Like, I guess for me, it's the opening of episode 2 with Missy and
Clara.
And in fact, they're pairing all the way through is really, really
fun.
Takes us right back to the thank you, Miss Grant.
It's really good, is it?
Because Clara usually bosses the doctor around and is always a
sort of step ahead of him.
And so having Missy just kind of gleefully tormenting her.
The moment when she pushes it down the hole in order to test how
deep it is, is so superb.
It's just the best thing.
A cathartic fan experience.
Yeah, yeah.
And also that sort of weird...
But that weird thing where you see the camera going around and
around at the beginning of the episode, you've got no idea why and
then you realise it's Clara upside down.
Like being hung from her ankles.
It's so great. so much fun.
That's my favourite thing.
Is that your favourite thing to enjoy in those days?
Isn't that your favourite thing in the season?
Well, it's my favourite thing in that 2 parter.
Oh yeah, like, I mean, they're dynamic.
Wonderful, wonderful.
All right, under the lake before the flood.
It's very TRAD, and I think it does a reasonable job of giving
Capoldi a base under siege.
And I think there are some good characters.
It's been, we always end up back at the Impossible Planet, don't
we, when we're talking about bases under siege in the new series
and that no one, not even Russell himself in Waters of Mars
manages to get as well-defined a group of characters together to
be in the base under siege.
But I have to say that this kind of does have interesting
characters and memorable ones and in a way that is unique in this
season.
So I think it's important to the season, but it's not my favourite
I would say.
I don't dislike it, but I don't particularly like it either.
It never seems to really fire on all cylinders and I think the
Fisher King is a problem.
Oh, the Fisher King is terrible, yeah.
So I'm going to be completely different listeners and say this is
my favourite 2 parter.
It's not written by Stephen Moffatt.
That's an in season 2 parter that doesn't start the season or
anything like that.
I have to go all the way back to human nature, family of blood.
Like that's how much I really love it.
I love the fact that it is a base under siege.
I like the fact that I do engage with the characters.
We've got a deaf character in there.
I loved that, being a point of difference.
I thought Capaldi was firing on all cylinders, no matter what
anybody thinks of that scene where he's got his little
flashcards.
I love that.
I love the cliffhanger.
I love the bootstrack paradise.
I love the fact that the Fisher King is just so crap and just
scans there to just be just drown.
Like, I just think that I just burst out laughing.
That's hilarious.
I just enjoy those episodes so much.
And the fact that we have no crap about the hybrid or any other
thing, just I can just enjoy it for what it is and I really do
love it.
And if I think if I didn't, then the season would be much lower
down.
And so told us now I put away his flashcards.
All right, our next two-parter, the girl who died, the woman who
lived.
What's our takeaway?
First one's fun. 2nd one's not so fun.
I think the 1st one's really properly good.
And I like what it says about the doctor.
And I think the 2nd one has something different to say about the
doctor.
And I like the fact that both of them are short story length.
You know, they're not a Doctor Who adventure, which I think almost
nothing in this season is a Doctor Who adventure probably apart
from the Zygon 2 parter and the under the lake 2 parter, everything
else is something quite different.
You know, like I think they have interesting ideas in them and I
like them more, I think, than most people.
I don't know, like I'm someone who does want more boom towns.
Okay, want more episodes that are just character pieces where
there's very little Doctor Whoness going on.
Or episodes of the quality of Boomtown would be great.
Yeah, that would be good too.
But I think Boomtown only works if you then have those characters
seeded earlier on in a bigger venture.
So they can only happen so often.
Otherwise, you're looking like you're doing like a one episode
sequel to whatever that is too often.
Yeah, maybe that's what the woman who lived is.
Like I can imagine it as a short story about a shilder.
There was probably an anthology of short stories about a Schilder
released around about this time.
I think, yeah. which surprised me if they weren't.
It feels like the season should be taking off at that point.
For me, it doesn't.
It feels a bit sluggish.
Well, certainly the woman who lived is bleak.
And it's bleak not just because of a shilder, but because also
that a shilder is being used to illustrate the doctor's character
and certain tendencies in the doctor's character.
So everyone's a little bit miserable, I think.
I guess my take on that is that I liked the girl who died a lot
more this time through.
I think there's great comedy stuff from Peter Capaldi in all of
these episodes, including a lot of letters down, does he?
No, especially in the woman who lived, which I think is its
strength.
But that is probably my least slight episode of the season, simply
because of the 2nd half of the episode.
All right, the Saigon invasion inversion.
You can't have enough calamari at any banquet, can you?
It's, look, again, it's the same thing of doing several levels of
tone at once.
I just thought we were redoing Dave the doctor.
I actually felt it was a lot of familiarity and I wasn't getting
much that was fresh or new.
I live for those moments with Rebecca Frant and Peter Capaldi
because I just want them to start slagging each other and have an
entirely and he's doing proper Malcolm Tucker face the whole way
through.
There's some beautiful moments in it and gorgeous exposition and a
really lovely salient quality core of what is the morality of
being alive and having to deal with this damn thing called society
and what the hell do we do with it because none of us really like
each other.
So what are we going to do?
And it's perfect and salient for our times and all times.
But did I find it new and fresh and invigorating?
I'm sorry, I didn't.
Basically not here for Zygons, they're not played by John Woodnuts
but yeah.
Also teeth.
Yeah, my default. bothered by the teeth.
But definitely here for that scene which gets rightly praised at
the end, which is an amazing discussion of war and morality.
Yeah, yeah.
And sort of timely.
I mean, and delivered with should have been BAFTA winning strength
by Peter Capaldi.
Yeah.
Look, I think that it is different. and it has a kind of real
early pertwe kind of vibe to it in that it's a series of worldwide
events.
And I think that sort of works.
It's interesting.
It's something that we haven't attempted for a while.
I guess the closest is aliens of London in a way, but this is much
more serious than that and has gone much further.
I mean, I just think that the premise where there are 20000000
zigons living on Earth, mostly in the UK and just going with that
as a premise is just great.
Like, it's the most ambitious premise of any Doctor Who story for
a long time.
They just about make it work.
I'd love to think that the germ of the idea for this story was the
line in Terror of the Saigons, isn't it a big just for the 5 of
you?
I think it's a really strong two-parter.
I guess my takeaways from it are Ingrid Oliver as Osgood.
Rebecca Front as Captain Walsh.
The fact that Kate Stewart gets something to do.
Moat damn it, woman.
I don't like the whole sequence with the plane.
Yeah, I just can't handle that.
So that's what I take away from it.
Alright, sleep no more.
Sleep quite often.
Look, I think if it was done as a standard episode, it'd be quite
bland and generic, and it wouldn't be well regarded, I think that
they tried to do something different to make it more interesting
again, as I said, at the time, it froze out my equilibrium, and I
find that it's a plus on a minus.
Like I find that off putting, but once I get into it, once I get
past that 1st 20 minutes, I actually quite enjoyed it.
I think I compared it to 42 in that it was a fairly generic thing
that tried to kind of tar itself up by having some high concept in
42.
It's obviously the real time thing.
And here it's the found footage thing.
And there doesn't seem to be a very good reason for it to be found
footage.
But nevertheless, there was something about the world that it
created that I liked.
Simon mentioned this.
You know, we're out at Neptune. something has happened to the
inside of the solar system.
And we're in this sort of very bleak place where humanity is kind
of horrible and we like genetically engineering soldiers and we're
monetising people sleep.
And there's something kind of dystopian about it, which isn't kind
of rammed down our throats in a really obvious way.
And I thought that that was kind of interesting.
It's nice to see Mark Gatis attempt, something a little bit
different, I guess.
And I do like the idea that it threatens the audience that because
we heard that sound in the broadcast.
We're ultimately going to succumb to the sort of crummy looking
sleep monsters and that's quite fun, I think.
I'd got a sense that Margatus was really tired of sitting on comic
comp panels with Neil Gaiman hearing everyone saying how freaking
amazing he was and thought, I'm going to do that too.
And I'm going to use today's own Patrick Trout as the villain.
It was very disappointing seeing Reese Smith not play the 2nd
doctor.
Well, you say disappointing.
I think we actually in that episode said that it was a bit of a
relief. really like his patreon.
Yeah, it feels to me as if it's a nod to other writers' styles and
there's nothing wrong with that.
That's what science fiction is.
It doesn't quite get there, does it?
It doesn't quite get there, but I think it's got this reputation
that is unwarranted.
I don't think it's anywhere near as bad.
Nathan.
I think it's full of potentially interesting ideas and setup.
I don't think any of it comes off.
It's actually quite a chore to watch.
And to see something like that done go to oxygen next year because
it's a very similar setup.
Very similar themes and that's an extremely watchful and
entertaining episode, whereas this isn't.
So. what's the difference?
Face the Raven.
Favourite episode of the season.
Not afraid to say it.
I started kind of tearing up in the opening credits when I went to
rewatch it for the 1st time before doing it here.
I do that frequently during Paldi opening credits.
Not great.
I think it's incredible.
And the thing that we discovered from our episode is that we took
Sarah Dollard's premise, which was enough, probably, to sustain an
entire episode. and then just threw it away and that that bespeaks
a kind of confidence that the show has at this point.
I love it It often gets overlooked.
Well, because of the next episode.
Every time I come back to it, I love the trap street.
Rigsey's great.
And the last 10 minutes are just compelling television.
Do you know, I suspect you love it in part for the same reason
that I love it, and that is that I could see it being done as a
Sylvester McCoy all studio 3 parts up.
It has this wonderful quality of nostalgia to it.
It's very small scale and you could actually do it in a corner of
the studio, which I think they probably did.
And it just has that warm glow for me.
It feels like classic Doctor Who.
Heaven sent.
Talking of feeling like classic Doctor Who.
I just think the editing is utterly and totally extraordinary.
I mean, obviously, obviously the direction and Peter's performance
but that editing in that lasts...
The lighting.
Why did this not get a Hugo, did it?
Did it get anything?
It got a satin, didn't it?
I mean, it really should have won the Hugo this year.
I think Sleep No More got a Neptune.
Ouch.
I mean, I think it's one of the best things that the show has ever
done.
I think it is absolutely the thing that Moffat planned to do on
his way out the door.
Yeah, this is like, this is me, you know, he's written more Doctor
Who than anyone else.
He sets himself these really strict formal constraints and he has
the perfect leading man to do it.
You know, it is Moffatt's tricks, the things that we are used to
but he's deploying them really well in the interest of something
that has real proper atmosphere.
I think the difference between Moffatt doing this and what Russell
would have done.
And I think, you know, the nearest thing that we have is perhaps
midnight or possibly turn left, where Russell is still fun and
light, even in his sort of darkest moments, they're still kind of
fun to be had.
But Moffatt is, yeah, well, yeah.
Yeah, let's see what happens after. years and years.
Yeah, yeah.
But Moffatt is focussed, everything is working together.
Everyone, uh, Talalay, Gold, Moffat, and Capoldia, all, you know
at the height of their powers.
I think it's amazing.
I have to say that until this point, the charms of heaven sent had
eluded me somewhat.
I always thought it was pretty good, but I didn't know why people
raved about it or face raved about it.
But I got it this time.
I still don't think maybe it's the A plus great piece of work that
other people do, but I do see it has significant strengths.
I think it's interesting like the audience appreciation for that
episode is slightly less than others in the season, like I said
only at 80, which I mean, you might say, whatever, but I think
maybe because that's the nature of the story and how all of that
is all edited together.
It's always important to remember that Kinder came bottom of the
season 19 season poll.
Oh, well, never mind.
Arch of Infinity came 3rd the next year.
Hell bent.
Surprisingly good.
I like it much more than I expected.
I had basically no memory of it and I thought it was really good.
Agreed.
I thought it was a lot.
Yeah, surprisingly good.
And it was nice to have a bit of a breather in the barn for about
20 minutes before we got back to enough of your private life.
I love that barn scene.
It's so funny and it only works because it's Capaldi telling it to
Clara.
So it ends up being this sort of weird, shaggy dog story about how
he just sat there and waited and then some soldiers came and then
the president came and, you know, like then they had big guns and
stuff and and like all of that stuff is so much fun and so
outrageously over the top.
It's really excellent, I think.
I love the scenes in the diner. melancholy music, her music.
I love when she talks to the Time Lords, and then, um, it's that
moment where he's stealing the TARDIS, and you get to look in the
other TARDIS, which is great.
Those moments stick in my mind.
The diner scene nails the season for me because it's such, again
those lovely quiet two-handed scenes that Stephen writes so well.
And that's another one that flips.
You know, we Classic moth at wrong footing.
Yeah, we think that Clara can't remember the doctor and then we
discover that it's the other way around.
It's really good Because she reversed the polarity.
She reversed the polarity and he reversed it back.
Yeah, no, she literally refers to polarity.
It's terrific.
And then just having her steal a Tardisan go off and have
adventures and stuff is the perfect ending for that companion in
particular, and we're not going to punish her for wanting to be
the doctor.
She gets to be the doctor and that's awesome.
And of course, we will mention the husbands of River song because
it was only broadcast 20 days after.
It's got so much comedy in it, which I really like after the
heaviness of things and but then it's beautiful.
At the end, it's heartwarming.
It tragic.
It's everything you want to be.
I really liked it so much.
It's taking the 1st river song story where she dies chained to
that wall and flipping it, changing the significance of that.
She talks about the doctor, putting on a new suit, coming to pick
her up and taking her to dinner, and that was the last time she
saw him, and then they spend 24 years, you know, and derelium
together.
And so it just changes it completely and turns that into you know
a much happier ending.
And like River's reaction to discovering that is just absolutely
perfect.
I haven't rewatched it, but I know that I absolutely adore
Husbands of River song.
So one of the best things Moffat ever did.
I think it's interesting, like, you know, he's really wrapping up
his time on the show between Galifre, finding Galifre, letting
Clara go, wrapping up River song.
It's sort of like we're about to hand over to somebody new, but
we're not going to do that.
Just get.
All right, so we've got a couple more questions. as we sort of
wrap this up.
So, one to watch, one to avoid, one that got away in terms of
episodes.
Want to watch Hellbent because it is better than you think it is?
One to avoid.
Sorry, the woman who lived.
And what was the other option?
One that you think's gotten away, like from people.
Face the Raven.
I think Face the Raven is better than people give it credit for.
It's very interesting.
I would probably say the Zygon ones personally because my take on
them was thin, but I might go back and watch the 2nd part of that
and see that that might be the one that for me, but other people
think it's fantastic.
Sleep No More has great moments.
And I think if we were 13, 14 years of age, we would have found it
really interesting.
It might just be the over familiarity of the type of story.
I don't think the pacing or the direction is necessarily poor.
So that might also be a getaway.
I'm not really looking at anything that we haven't praised or that
audiences didn't praise, but then, as you said, this wasn't a
popular choice with casual viewers, was it this season?
It didn't stay up there.
No, it was impacted a little bit in the ratings.
But how much of that we can let the door of the season when they
weren't great from the off.
I don't know.
Okay.
I would say watch, heaven's end.
You can't watch it too often because it's a bit of a slog in a way
not because it's poorly written or boring or anything. very
painted-y, isn't it?
It feels like the very violent, late Renaissance, Penguin, I
wanted to say Caravaggio, but the very rich, decadent, lush oils
and that carroscuro, very light moment, you know, that there'll be
a point of light, but the rest of the canvas is in darkness, and
it paints horrors, internal horrors.
What it does with light is really interesting, what it does with a
camera is really interesting.
What it does with subjectivity is really interesting.
The way that it is able to give the doctor enough to do in an hour
to kind of sustain our interest.
I think all of it's like kind of a masterclass in everything.
So I think that would be it.
I don't really have one to avoid, although maybe the 2nd part of
the under the lake 2 parter is probably my least favourite episode
of the season.
But, you know, like, I don't think that's to be avoided.
And I think it has Capaldi in it and he's fantastic.
And the one that gets away.
I still think that the Zigon 2 parter is the show trying to do
something interesting at such a late date and I'm here for that.
I think that's one that people overlook.
So sidebar to that.
My boyfriend, Sean, was watching Doctor Who just to see what I was
ranting about.
And we watched Blink together and he really enjoyed that.
But then, um, under his own steam, he watched Capaldi's speech
from the Zygon 2 Parta, and was so swept away by it, he said, and
this is why I said it earlier, he said that should have won a
BAFTA, why was it not even nominated?
He thought it was a superb scene.
And he's a Cini file.
And so he thinks of things on filmic levels.
And he said, you could put that in an Oscar winning movie.
And that would be a show stopping performance.
Well, it would be.
I think Peter Capaldi's comedy timing, dramatic beats this
season.
Everything he delivered this season is just perfection.
But for me, one to watch.
Oh my goodness, there's so many to choose from, and you've touched
on all of them.
It'd either be under the lake or heaven sent, one that's gotten
away.
I actually think Hell Bent doesn't get enough praise, but again, at
the same token, I could easily choose Face the Raven, or even
sleep no more, one to avoid, it's hard, probably the woman who
lived, but I don't really, you know, I can watch half of that and
be quite okay with it.
So there you go.
All right, Jenny Laird Award nominations.
And the Bonnie Langford Award, the Startling Discovery.
The Jenny Laird Award goes to whoever cut the trailer for this and
decided to say, same old, same old.
We mentioned over and over again. but the season comes out of the
gates hobbled a bit by the fact that it's so introspective and
that trailer doesn't help.
Why didn't fans like this season more?
All they ever want is same old thing.
I know, I know, I know.
My Jenny League goes too.
The stunt double of Peter Capaldi on the horse.
I'm sorry, it just has to, I don't know.
There's probably other stuff that I will think about later, but
that just...
I think it was one Zygon.
There was one Zigon trying to manage with 6 limbs.
It's very difficult to get right on the day.
My unsuspected delight is not necessarily the Fisher King because
again, what's the point of a big carapace unless you're Helen
McCrory.
Yes, exactly.
But as an homage to Helen McCroy, I'm so with you, girl.
I know what he was up to.
I agree with Todd.
The undersea base thing being, you know, of a child of a certain
age and remembering C-Lab 2020 and how much we loved it and all
the Jerry Anderson series.
It's a lot better than you remember when you watch it again.
And there's beautiful moments.
I love the actress, the deaf actress who plays the smartest woman
on the base, and the doctor refers to her and registers her, and
she just gives such a stunning performance because I guess of all
people who have an impairment, she is very emotive with her face
and her eyes especially.
And so she can eyebrow Capaldi right back at him.
And there's scenes between them are electric.
I agree with Todd on that one Maybe my Jenny Laird award goes back
to, you're trying to reboot your childhood, Mr. Moffat, by giving
us 4 part 20 something minute stories, because that was the glory
days.
But if you look back, there was a lot of sitting about waiting for
things to happen in those glory days, weren't there?
So maybe that's my Jenny Laird.
My Jenny Lad award goes to whoever decided not to cast Jenny Laird
as a healer.
Actually, it might go to Stephen Moffat for his line, Dalek
Supreme, your sewers are revolting.
Stephen, you are better than this.
He went to so much effort to be able to include that.
Absolutely.
I think that my Bonnie Langford would have to go to just the
absolute fan heart pounding joy of seeing that original TARDIS
console room again.
Although it's veering into a Jenny Ladd because everyone knows not
white.
It's a pale lime green.
Well, it looked white to the black and white cameras.
With blue floors. which were meant to look gray.
Follow that listener.
Barbara's blouse.
I'm saying.
My Bunny Langford goes to Michelle Gomez, because she is
predictably the best thing in anything that she's in, including an
entire season of Doctor Who.
So my Bonnie Langford goes to the puppy.
Isn't it the puppy?
You're the puppy or the what?
Yeah, you're the puppy.
No, my Bonnie Langford goes...
I think it will go to Jenna.
Okay, for the fact that I really found Clara plays Bonnie.
Yeah, the fact that she plays Bonnie and she does that really well
and she really just holds her holds her own and more with Peter
all season and Clara is nowhere near as annoyingly awful as I
thought this season.
And that's her performance really.
All right, so finally, our final question, Series 10.
Where's it with you?
It always annoyed me slightly that series 11 was promoted as such
a soft reboot for the show when we just had an extremely
successful soft reboot of the show the season before.
I may be heading for a verse Todd experience.
I don't know.
I haven't rewatched this coming season very much, but in my mind's
eye, it's pretty damn good, and that's because everything's
gelling.
We've got a really good soft R happening, Capaldi's mastered his
role as the doctor.
Our new regulars are really good and I think there's just a bunch
of entertaining episodes and I think maybe that's what we were
missing this season.
My memory is that there are some episodes that aren't very good or
don't properly land, but I love the whole premise of the season.
And I think Doctor Who could have been doing that a little more.
Like the Pertuyera sort of stuck out as an era where something
different was happening for the doctor, he'd stationed himself
somewhere.
You could really see, I mean, I know it's very similar to what
we're getting, seriously.
You could really see the doctor in season 17 sort of stationing
Self at St.
Seds.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so I really, really like that whole thing.
And the fact that, you know, now Moffatt could just sort of help
himself to decades in the doctor's timeline.
And so the doctor's been there for 50 years or whatever.
And I think all of that is really great and you've obviously got
Missy and you've obviously got Matt Lucas and you've obviously got
the adorable and truly superb Pearl Mackey.
I'm looking forward to it, but I do think that there are
individual episodes that I have reservations about.
Same.
I remember it being both highs and lows and beautiful to look at
with extraordinary characterisations and perfect casting, perfect.
But then it did a typically Stephen Moffatt thing that he threw a
lot in.
It felt hastily.
I don't know, it's kind of like one of those very creative kids at
school who would write very complex things the day before they
were due and still get good marks for it and think that's the way
you're meant to work forever.
But I could be horribly wrong because I haven't seen it since it
came out.
But I do remember feeling it tonally, and as you say, there were a
lot of colours all at once, and I wasn't quite sure that staring
into a kaleidoscope for an entire season is something a casual
viewer will be comfortable with.
I'm going put it out there. that I think there is only one
fundamentally disappointing episode and one all-time amazing story
in that season.
I guess for me, the Tom is so focussed on the fact that Peter
Paldi was going to leave and how were they going to write in these
new people and they were never going to stay because Chipman was
coming?
So I didn't really take in a lot of the nuts and bolts of it all.
Like it's all quite, besides the last 2 part are in that season.
The rest of it's quite a blur for me.
So I'm looking forward to discovering in those episodes, what the
character beats are, what they're actually doing in certain scenes
and acting and the relationship between the characters, which is
as I said, just a bit of a blow because I was just so sort of
focussed on the endpoint rather than the journey.
So I'm looking forward to that journey.
Speaking of nuts and bolts, let's see how it all works out for
Bill.
Oh, clang.
Well, the listener, that's all we have signed for for now.
We'll be back at Christmas for a surprisingly romantic comedy in
The Husbands of River Song.
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts
and you can keep up with us on our website, flightthroughentirety
com, where you'll find all our social media links, as well as
links to our other podcasts, including the 2nd great and bountiful
Human Empire, startling Barbara Bain, maximum power, and untitled
Star Trek project.
Until next time, remember that you can't really tell if
something's an addiction till you try and give it up.
Incidentally, stay tuned for news about our new Doctor Who podcast
project due in early 2024.
Thank you very much for listening and good night.
See you soon.
Good night.
Boom, boom.
That was Flight through Entirety.
It'll be Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffiths, Richard Stone.
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lam.
This episode, allowed to be the doctor, was recorded on the 26th
of November 2023 and released on the 10th of December.
So, our new Doctor Who Flashcast, the second great and bountiful
human empire, will be releasing its third episode on The Giggle
just a day or so after this episode is released.
Check us out at the Second Great and Power for Human Empire.com
and we'll be back again for Christmas.
Yeah, I think that's the out. you think?
That was good.
It was a really good time.
So we've done the end, except I didn't record the other thing
because I didn't think of it.
And I'll think of it later and I'll leave this setup here.
And I'll put just cardboard cutouts of you 3 in those chairs, my
sound to pounce off.
We can be the power of the dialect extras.