WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 14:17:03

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Hello and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety.

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The only Doctor Who podcast that's up on the slag heap with the

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Professor.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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And I'm invisible because Terry Nation demanded it.

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That is a very fetching shade of purple on you, though. as we

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hurtle towards the planet of the Daleks.

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Hooray.

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Well, this is my one as well.

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So I'm getting the entire 12 part Dalek epic, including the 6

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parts that actually have Daleks in them.

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So that's particularly exciting.

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It's been a while since Terry wrote for the Dalek.

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So we had David Whittaker doing the 2 trout once and then we had

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that sort of crazy one last year, which barely had the Daleks in

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it.

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And so this is really Terry's greatest hits, isn't it?

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This is not a script that is high on originality or anything like

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that.

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And it does really bring back a whole lot of elements that we've

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seen before.

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Can I just say as I sat down to watch this and had to labour

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through it, I actually thought of the 3 of you.

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And what you were thinking as you were watching this, having

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endured so much of Terry way back when and how you were feeling as

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this, this spectacle unfolded before you.

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You know, I actually, I actually have a soft spot for Terry's

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stuff in the early 60s.

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Like, I really like He's of Mariners, and I've said, why, you can

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go back and listen.

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I mean, the Daleks, you know, it's sort of flawed, but it has sort

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of fun things in it.

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And, you know, like the other Dalek stories.

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You know, they build and there's a sort of scale and stuff.

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But I have to say that this might sort of be something that I

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would consider fairly tiresome.

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And so, I did go through and I made some notes and I think that

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I've identified a number of elements from previous Dalek story.

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So tell me if I've left anything out.

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So we have a jungle planet realised in the studio from Mission and

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the Chase.

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We have the BBC Sound Effects Record, Landing Atmosphere to that

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jungle.

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Oh, with animal noises and stuff.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Okay, yep.

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We have a spaceship crashed in the jungle, like in Mission to the

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Unknown.

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We have plants that are more like animals. that take you over on

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contact.

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So we had that in mission.

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We, of course, had the fungoids in the chase and Wester, get some

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extra points for calling these plants fungoids as well.

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So that's that.

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They're like vaga plants, aren't they?

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We have invisible aliens that are fairly cheap to realise from

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Dalek's masterplan on the planet Mira.

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We have the peace loving files and moral arguments about the value

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of war from the Daleks, and we have plague bombs and plans to

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release even further plagues from Dalek Invasion of Earth.

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Plagues on plagues.

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We have dangerous escapades through tunnels in which Al is

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tragically killed.

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The Daleks.

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We have the Daleks using humanoid servants, you know, subjugated

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humanoid servants from the invasion.

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And we have just a sort of tiresomely dark tone all the way

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through.

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We also have an escape up a lift shaft with a Dalek pursuing in

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hover mode.

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What's that from?

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The Daleks.

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Really?

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Yeah, remember?

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forgotten that?

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Ian can't get out of the Dalek.

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So they have to go up in the lift and they said the lift back down

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for Ian and Ian comes up in the lift, but then a Dalek's flying up

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after them and they have to push a statue on top.

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Don't we?

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So that, what else have I left out?

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I'm trying to think.

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In mission to the unknown?

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Does somebody take a log at all?

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Like, does...

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Yes, yes, Mark. recording a miracle?

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So Joe's taking the recording of the lot.

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Brilliant.

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In episode two, The doctor is disabled by the Daleks like shooting

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at his legs.

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His legs, yeah.

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Like with Ian trick.

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Weber is attacked by a tentacle, which I'm sure there's a similar

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thing way back in the Daleks or something like that.

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No, no, no.

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You see, this is one of the things that I had wished was in it

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because what we don't get is the slither, the Maya Beast or the

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10th of the, but we do actually get a tentacle.

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So remember one of the files gets pulled into the swamp by a sort

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of crummy octopus thing in the Daleks?

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But it would have been nice to have had a sliver sort of just sort

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of bouncing up and down.

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Oh my god, somewhere.

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We get someone inside a dalek in person.

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We get someone impersonating a dalek insider dalek, Rebeck instead

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of...

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Yeah, we get a thal kind of doing the whole, what is this earth

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thing called kissing kind of plotline?

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Oh, do we have?

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Instead of Barbara.

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Do thals recognise handshakes?

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I don't think it's quite so overt.

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Right, okay.

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Yeah.

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But we do, well, we do actually have, in the Daleks, I think it's

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Ganitis says to Barbara, we won't use one of the traditions of

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your planet, ladies first, whereas here Lartep isn't aware of

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Earth tradition.

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So, 0 my god, Terry Nation is inverting one of his, dare I say it

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listener, tropes.

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And the doctor is trapped in the Dalek cell with Codal, and

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they're devising a plan to get out of the cell, and then they

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attack the Dalek, you know, how they settle with it.

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And that's what they do in the Daleks as well, isn't it?

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Yeah.

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And also they're locked in a cell in Garlic Invasion of Earth, and

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it's actually an intelligence test to figure out their way out.

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And we're going up and down lifts.

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Is that onto lower levels?

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Is that part of the Daleks or am I misreading it?

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L. There is a lift, but I think I think it might be too much to

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criticise terrogation for using a lift. have doors and kind of

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floors and stuff.

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One thing I will mention though. interrogation's defence is that

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Terry Nation's 60s Dalek scripts are all typified by getting cut

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off from the Tatars.

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So they're prisoners, so they can't get back to the Tatars, Tatars

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buried under girders.

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They're on a different planet, so they can't get back to the

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Tartars, et cetera, et cetera.

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In this, for most of the 1st episode, the danger is actually the

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TARDIS itself.

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It's a sealed environment and it's slowly killing the doctor.

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It's kind of a bit stupid though, I have to say, because, oh, it's

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incredibly stupid.

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The TARDIS has gone from being this sort of Whittakerrian sort of

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otherworldly interdimensional thing as recently as the time

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monster, it was like that.

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But now, like plant goo can gum up its ventilation system and the

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doctor's going to sort of suffocate.

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But he does have time to go and change his outfit and do his hair

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again.

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He does and he changes into that wonderful purple jacket.

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I think it's one of his best costume.

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It sort of double breasted and stuff.

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Yeah, I love it.

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That's the only double breasted costume he wears.

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And I think Katie fairly callously goes and does her hair and gets

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changed. while the doctor's dying, you know, she goes and has a

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good wash, but she really spends some time on her hair because it

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does look fabulous and quite different from before.

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So, yeah, it's almost as if they made another whole 4 part story

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between frontier in space and Planet of the Daleks.

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So I want to say about the jungle and I don't know whether it's

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you...

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I really, really liked the Planet of Campbell.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Like, I thought the set was really effective.

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You have Douglas Camfield, who's, you know, one of Doctor Who's

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best directors directing the Daleks through it.

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The set seems really big.

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Here, and I don't know whether it's colour or what it is, but

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there's a few less plants and a lot more tinsel and the whole

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thing just looks a little bit more crummy.

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I think that the production team aren't used to doing indoor

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outdoor sets.

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And all the other poetry stories have location work for going

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outside, you know?

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And this doesn't, for 4 episodes, you are trapped inside studio

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with inside studio jungle.

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I was getting cabin fever by percent.

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I was like, 0 my goodness, we need location work.

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And then suddenly there is a little bit of location work.

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Not very good though, is it?

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And it certainly doesn't fit with the rest of the planet.

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But no, but I think it's that fact.

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They haven't had to do an indoor set like this.

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They represent the outdoors, perhaps.

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They do use some film stuff for, don't they?

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They use film stuff for the ice tunnels and that looks really

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good.

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Good, yeah.

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And the ventilation shaft as well.

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Yeah, but if they had done that for the jungle, it might have

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looked better.

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Yeah, I mean, I think part of the reason we remember Kemble so

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well is before Day of Armageddon was recovered, which is over 10

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years ago, I think now.

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The clips we always saw of Kimble were Daleks burning down the

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jungle, which, of course, was on film.

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It looks impressive.

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It looks big and it looks vast.

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Plus, Dougie Campfield has the capacity to make video look

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filmmic.

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Yeah.

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I believe this is David Maloney's 1st job on the colour era of the

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show.

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He had directed 3 Patrick Troughton stories.

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Yeah, that's right.

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Mind Robert Crotons and war games.

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He does a very good job in my opinion, but I do think part of it

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is the lack of film, because later on when we see the jungle of

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Planet of Evil, which is shot at Ealing Studios on film, that

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looks amazing.

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It's a better design jungle, though.

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I agree.

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This is just a whole heap of plants to make up from the local

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nursery.

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From the production office.

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Pulled out an aspidistra from leop production office and shoved

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some tensil on it.

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It's the planet.

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Spir it on all of a sudden.

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So I do think that's a bit of a shame.

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And I also think that the spaceship part of the set, you know, the

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spaceship in episode one, the...

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Yeah, the Joe stumbles into... the outside looks pretty terrible.

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Yeah, and compare that, like I remember seeing, you know, for the

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1st time last year seeing what the spaceship looked like in those

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1st few episodes of Dalek's master plan.

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And that set looks spectacular, you know, not just inside but

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outside.

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And it is like they've kind of lost their ability to make a sort

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of convincing indoor set.

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What I did like about that spaceship though, is that it was a

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fully functional set.

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So you walk through the door in it and you're in the set.

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It's not like the TARDIS, where you walk in the doors of the

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police box, cross over the studio, and then walk in the doors of

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the console. that definitely true?

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That is definitely true.

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So it was solid on the side with the door.

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And then the right hand side where the camera was was cut away.

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Right.

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So that I really liked, it kind of then doesn't help that the

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interior is like a space Winnebago.

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Yeah, it is pretty dismal, isn't it?

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It's not good.

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So, um, yeah.

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So we hate this, yeah?

252
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No, no, no, no.

253
00:11:20.820 --> 00:11:25.620
I think as individual episodes, and I think the way Terry writes

254
00:11:25.620 --> 00:11:29.340
it with, you know, all these little moments that are going to add

255
00:11:29.340 --> 00:11:31.740
to a cliffhanger or people in jeopardy.

256
00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:35.460
You can watch an episode and sort of get through an episode, right

257
00:11:35.460 --> 00:11:36.360
with these moments.

258
00:11:36.419 --> 00:11:40.980
But I just found this so laborious to get through.

259
00:11:41.039 --> 00:11:43.080
It's the 1st poetry that I've struggled with.

260
00:11:43.139 --> 00:11:46.799
And I actually had to have not just like one episode a time, but I

261
00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:49.679
had days off in between days off to recover.

262
00:11:49.679 --> 00:11:53.580
And it took me like a good 2.5 weeks to watch this story and I

263
00:11:53.580 --> 00:11:58.320
just, it is my least favourite John Pertwe story. but it's not

264
00:11:58.320 --> 00:11:59.639
completely awful.

265
00:11:59.700 --> 00:12:04.200
Do you know, the bad thing is that I was like, I had, you know, 18

266
00:12:04.200 --> 00:12:08.039
episodes of Talk 2 to Watch in the last 3 days in order to be

267
00:12:08.039 --> 00:12:08.879
ready for the podcast.

268
00:12:08.940 --> 00:12:11.940
So I couldn't really afford to get up and make myself a sandwich

269
00:12:11.940 --> 00:12:14.879
between episodes of Planet.

270
00:12:14.940 --> 00:12:16.320
Oh, and Pertwee just would have reached off the screen.

271
00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:18.059
You would have stolen it anyway, yeah.

272
00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:22.799
You know, episode one, as it all unfolds, and a lot of it's on

273
00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:25.259
Katie's shoulders because she's recording.

274
00:12:25.259 --> 00:12:28.139
It's pretty much a monologue for Katie in half of episode one.

275
00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:30.720
Because John's lying there, you know, with that stuff on his face

276
00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:33.539
as he gets all cold and all that sort of thing and she's wandering

277
00:12:33.539 --> 00:12:37.679
around and having to record on her tape, cassette tape.

278
00:12:37.740 --> 00:12:40.019
I was amazed by that as a kid.

279
00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:44.220
Because, you know, of course, cassettes were incredibly

280
00:12:44.220 --> 00:12:47.220
commonplace and cheap when I was a child and I would buy cassettes

281
00:12:47.220 --> 00:12:50.580
and I would record songs off the radio or very embarrassingly, I

282
00:12:50.580 --> 00:12:53.279
would record myself doing one man audio plays.

283
00:12:53.340 --> 00:12:57.179
Somewhere at my parents' place is a one-man rendition of Red Dwarf

284
00:12:57.179 --> 00:12:57.659
backwards.

285
00:12:57.720 --> 00:12:59.460
Excellent. anyway.

286
00:12:59.580 --> 00:13:05.340
So to me, a tape that ran itself. and recorded your voice rather

287
00:13:05.340 --> 00:13:07.559
than having to use my parents' giant stereo.

288
00:13:07.620 --> 00:13:10.320
That was a wonderful concept for me.

289
00:13:10.320 --> 00:13:11.399
And I wanted one.

290
00:13:11.460 --> 00:13:15.899
And of course, now the device that we record the podcast on is the

291
00:13:15.899 --> 00:13:19.919
size of 2 cassette tapes stacked on top of each other and it can

292
00:13:19.919 --> 00:13:21.539
store 10 hours worth of audio.

293
00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:25.379
I'm living in Joe Grant's future.

294
00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:25.919
It's great.

295
00:13:25.980 --> 00:13:30.299
I was listening to the audiobook and I'll talk more about this

296
00:13:30.299 --> 00:13:34.440
later, read by Mark Gatis on the way over here.

297
00:13:34.500 --> 00:13:38.340
And it says that the log had limitless power and limitless

298
00:13:38.340 --> 00:13:39.000
capacity.

299
00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:43.320
And that's what they prioritise over limitless breathable air

300
00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:44.879
inside the TARDIS.

301
00:13:44.940 --> 00:13:49.259
That's an interesting TARDIS set, you know, having the whole IKEA

302
00:13:49.259 --> 00:13:50.940
sort of pull out bed.

303
00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:51.960
They're really glamorous, actually.

304
00:13:52.019 --> 00:13:53.039
Richard was here.

305
00:13:53.100 --> 00:13:56.460
If only Richard was here, Todd, he would be able to tell us who

306
00:13:56.460 --> 00:13:57.539
the furniture designer was.

307
00:13:57.600 --> 00:13:58.620
Well, he is not.

308
00:13:59.159 --> 00:14:03.779
The set was designed by Roger Lymington, who did design the

309
00:14:03.779 --> 00:14:06.840
abandoned Time Monster version of the set.

310
00:14:06.899 --> 00:14:07.980
Oh, I missed that.

311
00:14:08.039 --> 00:14:09.360
I really loved that.

312
00:14:09.419 --> 00:14:10.679
Yeah we all did. thought it was great.

313
00:14:10.740 --> 00:14:11.940
It was absolutely wonderful.

314
00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:16.679
But his brief for this was to bring it closer to the Brakaki

315
00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:19.500
original, which is why it's no longer symmetrical.

316
00:14:19.559 --> 00:14:22.379
You've got the scanner suspended above.

317
00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:24.840
In this case, what he referred to as Teleporter pads.

318
00:14:24.899 --> 00:14:26.759
So there's the Star Trek influence again.

319
00:14:26.820 --> 00:14:29.580
They look like the transporter pads and a wall that you could get

320
00:14:29.580 --> 00:14:31.139
stuff out of and lockers and whatnot.

321
00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:32.100
And what happens to it?

322
00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:34.799
They just rented it for this story and then gave it back.

323
00:14:34.860 --> 00:14:39.720
Um, yeah, pretty much we don't see, we don't see that scanner

324
00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:40.860
teleport wall again.

325
00:14:40.919 --> 00:14:42.899
I don't think we see the lockers again.

326
00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:45.179
It goes back to the hexagonal walls.

327
00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:47.879
I like to see them lying on that bed a bit more often.

328
00:14:47.940 --> 00:14:48.779
Do you know what I mean?

329
00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:52.860
Like Joe saying, wake me when it's over or something or pertly

330
00:14:52.860 --> 00:14:55.559
there with one knee up. lying.

331
00:14:55.740 --> 00:14:56.879
Yeah, yeah, the pertly death boat.

332
00:14:56.940 --> 00:15:00.600
Look, I do like in this episode that the doctor mentions Barbara

333
00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:02.100
Ian and Susan.

334
00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:02.940
It's a lovely moment.

335
00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:04.320
It's the 10th anniversary.

336
00:15:04.379 --> 00:15:05.159
We're harking back.

337
00:15:05.220 --> 00:15:09.120
I also think the files are much like this podcast because they

338
00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:13.379
have a mythology in which Barbara is a legendary figure.

339
00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:14.820
Yes, quite right.

340
00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:15.600
Yeah, yeah.

341
00:15:15.659 --> 00:15:16.019
Yeah.

342
00:15:16.019 --> 00:15:19.080
I mean, I'm sure I'm sure if they went on, I'm sure if they went

343
00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:22.019
on with that, they would have revealed that their greatest medal

344
00:15:22.019 --> 00:15:25.799
they can offer in their space service is the cardogon of courage

345
00:15:25.799 --> 00:15:26.159
medal.

346
00:15:26.220 --> 00:15:27.179
Yeah, yeah.

347
00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:29.639
Cardigan of bravery.

348
00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:35.700
Well, um, Rebik kind of has a little bit of a back home going on.

349
00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:39.539
You know, it comes up to a bun, but... really good that she

350
00:15:39.539 --> 00:15:43.320
actually does turn up at the end of episode 2 because otherwise

351
00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:46.080
it's just Joe Grant all the way through.

352
00:15:46.139 --> 00:15:48.179
It's not having a female woman.

353
00:15:48.299 --> 00:15:50.879
And then Joe's is separated from the doctor and actually everybody

354
00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:53.580
else except for invisible people for almost 4 episodes.

355
00:15:53.639 --> 00:15:55.019
I mean, she has a brief scene.

356
00:15:55.019 --> 00:15:56.460
Invisible naked people.

357
00:15:56.580 --> 00:15:58.200
Yeah, because...

358
00:15:58.259 --> 00:15:59.220
How does that work?

359
00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:01.320
How does society work that they're completely invisible?

360
00:16:01.379 --> 00:16:02.039
I don't understand.

361
00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:02.940
It does my head in.

362
00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:06.960
So, but the thing that worries me, right, is that Wester turns up

363
00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:08.159
at the plane of stones later.

364
00:16:08.220 --> 00:16:12.899
West rescues Joe. She's got fungoids all over her arms and he

365
00:16:12.899 --> 00:16:15.779
rescues her and gives her some, you know, cures and all of that

366
00:16:15.779 --> 00:16:18.840
sort of thing. and she gets to be asleep for a long time.

367
00:16:18.899 --> 00:16:22.320
She's separated from the doctor for like 4 episodes and barely

368
00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:24.600
gets to say anything, but she does speak to Wester.

369
00:16:24.659 --> 00:16:28.980
And then Wester turns up later at the plane of stones in to the

370
00:16:28.980 --> 00:16:30.539
Big Purple Cape.

371
00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:32.100
They do look good.

372
00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:32.879
They look comfy.

373
00:16:32.940 --> 00:16:35.340
And Joe says, oh, that's Wester and so on.

374
00:16:35.399 --> 00:16:38.220
But then when I saw that it occurred to me that when he was

375
00:16:38.220 --> 00:16:41.399
nursing her back to health, he didn't have any clothes on.

376
00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:42.600
Yes.

377
00:16:42.659 --> 00:16:43.980
That's kind of icky, isn't it?

378
00:16:44.039 --> 00:16:44.580
Yeah.

379
00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:47.700
It's like, okay, you're unconscious. take you back to my place.

380
00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:49.139
Take all my clothes.

381
00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:50.399
Take all my clothes off.

382
00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:53.220
And then I'm gonna pour this gunk on your arm.

383
00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:55.019
Yeah, I think that's creepy.

384
00:16:55.080 --> 00:16:58.259
I never thought about it Yeah, before, he's completely naked.

385
00:16:59.460 --> 00:17:00.840
Yeah.

386
00:17:00.899 --> 00:17:04.799
And it's Roy Skelton, so you don't really want to be imagining him

387
00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:05.759
naked, I don't think.

388
00:17:05.819 --> 00:17:07.079
No, no, not really.

389
00:17:07.140 --> 00:17:10.619
And, and, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah.

390
00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:12.599
We have proper darlic voices.

391
00:17:12.660 --> 00:17:16.680
Yeah, Roy Skelton's back, and Michael Wisher does his duty as the

392
00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:18.000
Dalek voice, really for the 1st time.

393
00:17:18.059 --> 00:17:21.539
He did it in frontier, but this is really the meat and potatoes of

394
00:17:21.539 --> 00:17:21.720
it.

395
00:17:21.779 --> 00:17:23.339
Has Roy Skelton done it before?

396
00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:25.799
Yes, Roy Skelton started in Evil of the Darwex.

397
00:17:25.859 --> 00:17:26.519
Oh, okay.

398
00:17:26.579 --> 00:17:28.740
I actually don't think he's all that good.

399
00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:32.819
I've heard people say that I like Michael Wisher a lot better. but

400
00:17:32.819 --> 00:17:34.380
I think they're both pretty good.

401
00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:37.380
They're not Hawkings and Graham, are they?

402
00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:39.299
Who are just fantastic, unequalled.

403
00:17:39.420 --> 00:17:42.000
Michael Wisher, I think, is very good and does that sort of

404
00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:46.259
panicked thing and that weird thing where you lay emphasis on a

405
00:17:46.259 --> 00:17:48.299
syllable for too long and that kind of thing.

406
00:17:48.359 --> 00:17:49.799
And that's really good.

407
00:17:49.859 --> 00:17:54.299
They haven't quite got the same ring modulator and so the voices

408
00:17:54.299 --> 00:17:56.880
sound a little bit more muffled and a little bit more mechanical.

409
00:17:56.940 --> 00:17:58.859
Yeah, they're continuing to refine it.

410
00:17:58.920 --> 00:18:03.000
I actually quite like that, I have to say, because, you know, the

411
00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:05.880
whole idea of the Dalek is it's trapped inside this thing.

412
00:18:05.940 --> 00:18:08.819
And so having the voice just a little bit more muffled just

413
00:18:08.819 --> 00:18:11.220
reminds me a little bit more of it. actually quite like it.

414
00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:12.839
And they are much better.

415
00:18:12.900 --> 00:18:14.579
They're shot much more competently.

416
00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:18.539
You know, it is proper Daleks back for the 1st time and that is

417
00:18:18.539 --> 00:18:18.779
pretty good.

418
00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:22.440
It's good and there's more of them, even if they don't move.

419
00:18:22.500 --> 00:18:25.740
Well, in the Daleks, there were lots of fantastic sort of

420
00:18:25.740 --> 00:18:27.180
cardboard ones cut out.

421
00:18:27.180 --> 00:18:30.059
Yeah, at least these ones, at least these ones are 3 dimensional.

422
00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:31.079
Yeah, they're empty.

423
00:18:31.140 --> 00:18:33.720
No one's in them, but they're just sitting there and they're

424
00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:36.720
curiously immobile, aren't they, when people get discovered in

425
00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:37.559
that control room.

426
00:18:37.619 --> 00:18:39.000
They all just sort of sit there.

427
00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:41.700
Joe gets out of the bucket and there's one sitting in the corner

428
00:18:41.700 --> 00:18:45.000
looking straight at her getting out of it and just doesn't even

429
00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:45.420
register.

430
00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:46.440
It's having sleep.

431
00:18:46.559 --> 00:18:49.920
But it is good to see more of them and it's good to see the voices

432
00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:51.180
good to hear the voices.

433
00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:51.660
Yeah.

434
00:18:51.660 --> 00:18:54.420
And, you know, they have a lot of conversations about this

435
00:18:54.420 --> 00:18:57.000
patrol's out doing this, and we have to do this.

436
00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:00.779
And, you know, I like seeing sometimes that Alex is talking about

437
00:19:00.779 --> 00:19:01.559
what they're going to do.

438
00:19:01.619 --> 00:19:05.039
I mean, these days they just, they'd all just get the download all

439
00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:05.400
at once.

440
00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:06.720
Yeah, yeah.

441
00:19:06.779 --> 00:19:08.339
Just on the voices.

442
00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:10.500
Peter Hawkins, of course, is no longer with us.

443
00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:12.299
David Graham is still alive.

444
00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:17.759
Not only that, but as we speak, the new Thunderbird series

445
00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:20.880
Thunderbirds Ago, has already started broadcasting in Australia on

446
00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:24.240
go, and David Graham is back as Parker.

447
00:19:24.299 --> 00:19:27.599
Do you know, I had always assumed that was going to be a movie.

448
00:19:27.660 --> 00:19:28.619
So it's a TV series.

449
00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:32.880
It's a TV series and how they're doing it is their physical sets

450
00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:35.519
with CG characters.

451
00:19:35.579 --> 00:19:37.799
So they've reconstructed Tracy Island.

452
00:19:37.859 --> 00:19:39.539
It still looks wonderfully 60s.

453
00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:41.279
As we record this podcast.

454
00:19:41.339 --> 00:19:42.660
I haven't seen an episode yet.

455
00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:43.680
I've just seen the trailers.

456
00:19:43.740 --> 00:19:48.059
Rod is a huge Thunderbirds fan and he has been worried really

457
00:19:48.059 --> 00:19:49.559
quite seriously about it.

458
00:19:49.619 --> 00:19:50.880
He's like, no, it's going to be terrible.

459
00:19:50.940 --> 00:19:51.539
It going to be terrible.

460
00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:54.359
He saw a design for them and he's like, no, they all look too

461
00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:54.599
young.

462
00:19:54.660 --> 00:19:56.039
They look pretty pubescent.

463
00:19:56.099 --> 00:20:00.420
And then he saw a trailer and ever since he's been very, very

464
00:20:00.420 --> 00:20:00.779
excited.

465
00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:06.000
So it's going to be next weekend for me on the 12th.

466
00:20:06.059 --> 00:20:08.400
We're going to sit down and watch the 1st new episode of

467
00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:10.259
Thunderbirds since 1966.

468
00:20:10.380 --> 00:20:11.759
That is pretty exciting.

469
00:20:11.819 --> 00:20:15.480
I did see the trailer on Facebook and it is pretty impressive

470
00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:16.259
looking.

471
00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:16.799
I thought it was great.

472
00:20:16.859 --> 00:20:20.940
Did you know that 11000000 viewers tuned into episode one of this

473
00:20:20.940 --> 00:20:21.359
story?

474
00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:27.240
And it's ranked the highest ranked John Pertree's episode ninth

475
00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:27.779
for the week.

476
00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:28.859
Ninth of the week.

477
00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:32.279
They were expecting Bloody Daleks, and what do they get?

478
00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:34.140
In part one?

479
00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:38.640
Well, if they had ever watched a Terry Nation Dalek story before

480
00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:42.599
they would know that you only get to see the Dalek at the end of

481
00:20:42.599 --> 00:20:46.680
part one because that's the, it's like the, oh, my God, Cliffhanger

482
00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:51.000
you mean this story called Noun of the Daleks has Daleks in it.

483
00:20:51.059 --> 00:20:53.819
You know, amazingly, but it's something that happens every time.

484
00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:55.380
And remember the fantastic one.

485
00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:58.500
At the end of the chase episode one where the dalek comes up out

486
00:20:58.500 --> 00:20:59.819
of the sand and it's coughing.

487
00:20:59.940 --> 00:21:02.640
To be fair, though, we had seen them before that in their own

488
00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:04.920
spaceship, plotting and conspiring and what had you.

489
00:21:04.980 --> 00:21:05.759
Okay, that's true.

490
00:21:05.819 --> 00:21:09.240
Really, in terms of cherry dation. this is the 3rd time he's done

491
00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:09.480
that.

492
00:21:09.539 --> 00:21:12.180
The 1st time, obviously, it was in their 1st story, the Daleks

493
00:21:12.180 --> 00:21:14.940
where you just see a plunder at the end, then Dalek Invasion of

494
00:21:14.940 --> 00:21:18.180
Earth, it comes out of the Thames, and that would have been a big

495
00:21:18.180 --> 00:21:20.940
shock if they hadn't had a radio times cover saying the Daleks are

496
00:21:20.940 --> 00:21:21.180
back.

497
00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:25.380
And in the Daleks master plan, again, they're plotting and

498
00:21:25.380 --> 00:21:27.059
conspiring in the 1st episode anyway.

499
00:21:27.180 --> 00:21:28.920
We don't have the episode one reveal.

500
00:21:28.980 --> 00:21:31.079
But this is the 1st time they're invisible.

501
00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:34.259
Like it's not sand, it's not water. now invisibility.

502
00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:35.220
Yeah, yeah.

503
00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:35.880
And you know what?

504
00:21:35.940 --> 00:21:38.220
If the word Daleks hadn't been in the title.

505
00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:40.380
It actually is an excellent cliffhanger.

506
00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:45.660
Because you do get the pieces to figure it out before we get

507
00:21:45.660 --> 00:21:45.839
there.

508
00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:48.180
I mean, 1st of all, the doctor was chasing the Daleks.

509
00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:51.240
So it's more of a question of, hold on, who are these blonde

510
00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:51.480
people?

511
00:21:51.539 --> 00:21:51.960
Who are this?

512
00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:55.619
and then sort of altogether at the end when the dalek stops and

513
00:21:55.619 --> 00:21:57.000
you've just got its footprint.

514
00:21:57.180 --> 00:22:02.519
It's it's a penny drops moment, except the story is called Planet

515
00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:04.019
of the Darlet of the Darlet.

516
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:07.019
So the doctor recognises the thial straight away because they're

517
00:22:07.019 --> 00:22:08.339
horribly blonde, doesn't he?

518
00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:10.140
And they still live on Scaro.

519
00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:11.460
Like how does that work?

520
00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:15.059
Like, have the Daleks just gone off and adopted a planet and gone

521
00:22:15.059 --> 00:22:18.539
elsewhere and just forgotten about Skyro and so these people can

522
00:22:18.539 --> 00:22:19.140
live in peace?

523
00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:20.819
Like I thought they would have just been exterminated.

524
00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:22.079
A planet's a big place.

525
00:22:22.980 --> 00:22:25.859
The Daleks with LVID technology?

526
00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:28.559
The whole thing's a giant continuity mess anyway.

527
00:22:28.619 --> 00:22:31.799
So it's presumably still 2540.

528
00:22:31.980 --> 00:22:36.779
Oh, because we're continuing on from, it's our tenuous link to

529
00:22:36.779 --> 00:22:38.279
frontier and space, personally.

530
00:22:38.339 --> 00:22:41.880
It doesn't matter that the draconian human war never happens

531
00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:45.539
because somewhere on this planet are the 10,000 Daleks.

532
00:22:45.660 --> 00:22:48.480
I think Christopher Eccleston would be impressed by that number

533
00:22:48.539 --> 00:22:49.740
think not.

534
00:22:50.099 --> 00:22:52.440
It was sort of going to happen anyway.

535
00:22:52.500 --> 00:22:53.940
So it must be 2540, right?

536
00:22:54.000 --> 00:23:01.019
And the doctor and Barbara and Ian and Susan visited the Planet

537
00:23:01.019 --> 00:23:02.759
Scaro many years earlier.

538
00:23:02.819 --> 00:23:03.480
Yep.

539
00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:07.799
Except doesn't the doctor say in Darlic Invasion of Earth that

540
00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:09.299
that's a 1000000 years in the future?

541
00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:11.700
Well, what's he basing that on?

542
00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:14.819
You know, I think that's that's pure speculation on his part

543
00:23:14.819 --> 00:23:17.819
because they've gone to an alien planet.

544
00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:20.759
And because they've recently been in the past and he sort of tries

545
00:23:20.759 --> 00:23:22.079
to hit the future lever.

546
00:23:22.140 --> 00:23:24.059
He presumes they're in the future, but maybe they're not.

547
00:23:24.119 --> 00:23:28.500
It's Doctor Who continuity and sometimes it's best not to think.

548
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:29.460
Yeah, well I think that's right.

549
00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:31.500
And certainly Terry Nation wasn't thinking about it.

550
00:23:31.559 --> 00:23:34.740
Man, he wasn't thinking about the names of the thars.

551
00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:41.819
We've got Taryn, Weber, Kodal, Rebeck, Lateb, Marat.

552
00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:43.500
Why are they all five?

553
00:23:43.500 --> 00:23:45.359
Letters.

554
00:23:45.420 --> 00:23:49.559
Kate Orman once wrote a Blake 7 story where there was a character

555
00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:54.660
called Two Sill, like... 2 syllable name.

556
00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:58.259
And it was sort of very deliberately a riff on that because that

557
00:23:58.259 --> 00:23:59.460
happens in Blake 7.

558
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:01.799
And of course, Tarron is just Terry Nation.

559
00:24:01.859 --> 00:24:02.700
Do you know what I mean?

560
00:24:02.700 --> 00:24:03.420
as a character.

561
00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:04.200
Tarrant.

562
00:24:04.259 --> 00:24:07.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah. played by Bernard Horsfall. who is back.

563
00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:11.039
He's being 2 of David Maloney's previous stories and will be in

564
00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:11.400
another one.

565
00:24:11.460 --> 00:24:15.539
And just a reminder to listeners who may have only joined us for

566
00:24:15.539 --> 00:24:16.140
Pertwee.

567
00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:19.440
In this household, Bernard Horsfall is known as British Jack

568
00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:19.920
Thompson.

569
00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:23.279
I think he does a really good job.

570
00:24:23.339 --> 00:24:25.380
He's very dependable and solid.

571
00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:30.119
We've got Prentice Hancock, his neighbour. reliably wooden

572
00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:31.559
Prentice Hancock as Labour.

573
00:24:31.619 --> 00:24:34.799
He always plays these angry people that have to go off on, you

574
00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:36.960
know, I think he's actually pretty well cast here.

575
00:24:37.019 --> 00:24:37.799
He's right.

576
00:24:37.859 --> 00:24:39.420
Yeah, except he's not very good at being angry.

577
00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:41.400
Well, I always find.

578
00:24:41.460 --> 00:24:43.319
He's just, you know, unreasonable.

579
00:24:43.380 --> 00:24:48.180
And then we've got the 3rd thal, played by Tim Priest, isn't it?

580
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:48.720
Hello.

581
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:52.259
And, you know, he pairs up with the doctor for a lot of the story

582
00:24:52.259 --> 00:24:54.960
and there's a wonderful little scene at the end.

583
00:24:55.019 --> 00:24:57.059
I think he's got a bit of a man crush on the doctor.

584
00:24:57.119 --> 00:24:58.859
Yeah, there's a bromance happening.

585
00:24:59.339 --> 00:25:02.519
I think it's a bromance because I think the doctor doesn't even

586
00:25:02.519 --> 00:25:03.779
really know he's alive.

587
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:04.799
Do you know what I mean?

588
00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:07.440
Codell, it's a bit unrequited for Coda.

589
00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:11.400
I think the doctor likes running into another scientist because he

590
00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:14.279
very rarely gets to interact with an open-minded scientist.

591
00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:16.619
And it's really good that he doesn't get killed off like it's good

592
00:25:16.619 --> 00:25:18.720
that he's learning from the doctor and he can take that away.

593
00:25:18.779 --> 00:25:20.220
I thought at least that's a positive.

594
00:25:20.279 --> 00:25:22.079
I really like that scene.

595
00:25:22.140 --> 00:25:24.599
I think it's in, it's in episode two.

596
00:25:24.599 --> 00:25:26.400
And it's, it's crummy.

597
00:25:26.460 --> 00:25:30.839
It's, you know, per to he delivers a lecture about bravery to

598
00:25:30.839 --> 00:25:31.500
Codal.

599
00:25:31.559 --> 00:25:33.779
But the 2 of them play it so nicely.

600
00:25:33.900 --> 00:25:36.960
And then there's that line at the end which can't be written by

601
00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:39.900
Terry Nation where the doctor says, well, after that little

602
00:25:39.900 --> 00:25:42.539
tutorial on bravery, off we go, and you've got to think that

603
00:25:42.539 --> 00:25:43.319
Terry's...

604
00:25:43.319 --> 00:25:46.319
Oh, Terry's just going, we have to put some comedy gold in here

605
00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:46.680
you know.

606
00:25:46.740 --> 00:25:47.160
Yeah, yeah.

607
00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:48.660
No, you know what I think?

608
00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:51.539
I think it's Terrence Dick's reading it going, oh, for God's sake

609
00:25:51.539 --> 00:25:52.799
this is ridiculously gung ho.

610
00:25:52.859 --> 00:25:54.059
I'm going to bung this line in here.

611
00:25:54.119 --> 00:25:57.599
But it's so nice. really well done. it's terrific.

612
00:25:57.660 --> 00:26:00.900
Well, the thing is, that speech on bravery, you know, we look at

613
00:26:00.900 --> 00:26:05.640
it now and think, oh, that's a bit mawkish, but we look at, we

614
00:26:05.640 --> 00:26:10.140
look at then and, you know, you had things like the troubles as

615
00:26:10.140 --> 00:26:11.400
they were called in Ireland.

616
00:26:11.460 --> 00:26:15.539
You had the rise of freedom fighter slash terrorist acts.

617
00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:18.599
You had the Vietnam war still going on.

618
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:25.380
The conversation about war and pacifism and what courage is was a

619
00:26:25.380 --> 00:26:27.779
very important thing in society at this time.

620
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:31.380
And I actually think that little bit at the end, that courage

621
00:26:31.380 --> 00:26:33.000
isn't about not being afraid.

622
00:26:33.059 --> 00:26:35.279
It's about being afraid and doing what you have to do anyway.

623
00:26:35.339 --> 00:26:38.880
I know just that sentiment has helped me a lot in my life when

624
00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:41.339
I've been afraid of doing things such as when I moved country

625
00:26:41.339 --> 00:26:42.420
twice, you know.

626
00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:49.440
So I have always held a place in my heart for that scene.

627
00:26:49.500 --> 00:26:53.519
You know, of course it's a bit clumsy and it bashes you over the

628
00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:53.700
head.

629
00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:58.019
But like you say, it's the performance. pertly doesn't overplay

630
00:26:58.019 --> 00:26:58.259
it.

631
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:00.299
Tim Priest's codal.

632
00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:03.960
He's terrified, but again, he doesn't overplay the fear of his

633
00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:04.619
character.

634
00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:07.079
It's more of a numbing fear than anything else.

635
00:27:07.140 --> 00:27:08.519
It doesn't make him hysterical.

636
00:27:08.579 --> 00:27:14.099
Um, I do wonder about the names, but I think you're going to carry

637
00:27:14.099 --> 00:27:14.519
on.

638
00:27:14.579 --> 00:27:15.960
So I'll wait.

639
00:27:16.019 --> 00:27:18.480
We may, yeah, we will talk about some of the other.

640
00:27:18.599 --> 00:27:20.519
I think that's a beautiful scene, and I think John does really

641
00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:24.660
well in this story, and I think despite labouring through it, I

642
00:27:24.660 --> 00:27:28.680
think there is some nice positives throughout this, but it's

643
00:27:28.680 --> 00:27:31.799
really good that other styles do turn up at the end of episode

644
00:27:31.799 --> 00:27:32.160
two.

645
00:27:32.220 --> 00:27:34.559
We've got Rebeck, played by Jane Heron.

646
00:27:34.619 --> 00:27:38.039
I think she does a pretty good job as the other love interest and

647
00:27:38.039 --> 00:27:39.960
the female character throughout the story.

648
00:27:40.019 --> 00:27:41.400
Yeah, I think she's pretty good.

649
00:27:41.460 --> 00:27:44.400
She gets smacked down pretty quickly by Tara.

650
00:27:44.460 --> 00:27:45.420
We'll get there in a minute.

651
00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:45.960
Go on.

652
00:27:46.019 --> 00:27:51.359
We've got Marat, played by Hillary Minister, who, of course, is um

653
00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:52.319
in Alloa Low.

654
00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:54.299
As General Klickerhofen.

655
00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:54.720
Really?

656
00:27:54.779 --> 00:27:55.619
Yeah, that's him.

657
00:27:56.339 --> 00:27:57.059
He's barely in it.

658
00:27:57.119 --> 00:27:58.259
I didn't even really recognise.

659
00:27:58.319 --> 00:27:58.740
Well, exactly.

660
00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:01.740
He's in it for like, you know, two-thirds of an episode and then

661
00:28:01.740 --> 00:28:04.920
decides to sacrifice himself for no apparent reason, just so the

662
00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:06.299
Dalek corridor can be blocked up.

663
00:28:06.359 --> 00:28:09.240
He's seen the Daleks episode six.

664
00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:13.259
I think, and thought, and Antidus.

665
00:28:13.259 --> 00:28:13.799
Yes.

666
00:28:13.859 --> 00:28:15.779
Antidus is his role model.

667
00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:19.140
And so off he goes, sacrificing himself bravely.

668
00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:21.660
He may as well have a big target printer on his forehead. so

669
00:28:21.660 --> 00:28:22.140
clearly dead.

670
00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:23.940
And then there's...

671
00:28:23.940 --> 00:28:30.119
And then there's everyone's 70s teen idol, Latep.

672
00:28:30.299 --> 00:28:32.279
Petal backwards.

673
00:28:32.339 --> 00:28:37.440
Yeah, who, of course, develops a huge crush on Joe, just through

674
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:41.819
holding hands and scaling down the ventilation shaft, like with no

675
00:28:41.819 --> 00:28:45.059
harness or anything, just going straight down how many metres it

676
00:28:45.059 --> 00:28:49.740
is. miles, the doctor says. you know, and then feels like he needs

677
00:28:49.740 --> 00:28:50.460
to propose to her.

678
00:28:51.059 --> 00:28:53.759
I love how she lets him down, though.

679
00:28:53.880 --> 00:28:54.660
She's very sweet.

680
00:28:54.720 --> 00:28:58.380
Yeah, she's not in love with him, although she's a bit affected by

681
00:28:58.380 --> 00:28:58.859
it at the end.

682
00:28:58.920 --> 00:29:03.059
Yeah, no, well, yeah, she certainly, it's kind of the thing of, you

683
00:29:03.059 --> 00:29:05.640
know, the 1st time, the 1st time you meet someone whom you

684
00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:10.500
eventually have a relationship with or what have you, there's

685
00:29:10.500 --> 00:29:12.359
always a friskle there to start with.

686
00:29:12.420 --> 00:29:15.539
So I think for Joe, the Frisson is there to start with and

687
00:29:15.539 --> 00:29:19.019
Lartep's just leaping ahead in bounds and leaps.

688
00:29:19.079 --> 00:29:21.539
Well, they've only got a couple of episodes to sort of get the

689
00:29:21.539 --> 00:29:23.700
chemistry and sort of pull that off.

690
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:26.940
And I think both of them are doing a really good job of trying to

691
00:29:26.940 --> 00:29:29.700
get that chemistry in a few scenes that they've got and so that

692
00:29:29.700 --> 00:29:30.900
there's some sort of payoff.

693
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:34.140
You know, it's 3 strikes and you're out for Joe. Yeah, well, I

694
00:29:34.140 --> 00:29:36.900
think that he's too young and not sufficiently pretty for her and

695
00:29:36.900 --> 00:29:37.980
that's really the issue.

696
00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:39.660
So it's never really a thing.

697
00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:42.720
In terms of the supporting file characters.

698
00:29:42.779 --> 00:29:47.099
I think this is probably the best example of nation putting some

699
00:29:47.099 --> 00:29:48.720
thought into his character names.

700
00:29:48.779 --> 00:29:51.420
So you've got Taryn, who is Tarrant.

701
00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:54.000
So he's the voice of the author in the story.

702
00:29:54.059 --> 00:29:55.019
Fair enough.

703
00:29:55.079 --> 00:29:57.720
You've got Weber.

704
00:29:57.779 --> 00:29:59.940
Weber, Sabre.

705
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:01.140
It's an aggressive name.

706
00:30:01.319 --> 00:30:03.420
Codal codeine.

707
00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:05.519
He's on, he's the scientist.

708
00:30:05.579 --> 00:30:06.240
He's the medic.

709
00:30:06.299 --> 00:30:07.440
I thought quadrel, but anyway.

710
00:30:07.559 --> 00:30:08.160
Oh, quadrill?

711
00:30:08.220 --> 00:30:10.799
you know, but it's a scientific sounding name.

712
00:30:10.859 --> 00:30:14.460
Rebeck, of course, was named after his daughter, which is very

713
00:30:14.460 --> 00:30:14.700
nice.

714
00:30:14.819 --> 00:30:18.900
Marritt can't really think of why he's called Marritt, but you

715
00:30:18.900 --> 00:30:19.380
know, he dies.

716
00:30:20.160 --> 00:30:24.359
It's the sound he makes when he when he hits the ice floor.

717
00:30:24.420 --> 00:30:24.960
Yes.

718
00:30:25.019 --> 00:30:27.599
Or maybe corruption of mort.

719
00:30:27.660 --> 00:30:28.740
The French for death.

720
00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:32.579
And finally, that leaves us with lartep, of course, petal

721
00:30:32.579 --> 00:30:33.059
backwards.

722
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:41.460
But coming back to that concept of is courage fighting or is

723
00:30:41.460 --> 00:30:46.380
courage, not fighting when the cause is not worth fighting for.

724
00:30:46.440 --> 00:30:49.079
Is it being peaceful when others around you are being aggressive?

725
00:30:49.140 --> 00:30:53.220
What was a big symbol of the peace movement, but flowers?

726
00:30:53.940 --> 00:31:00.480
And he's the 2nd person this season, whose name is an anagram of

727
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:01.019
petal.

728
00:31:01.019 --> 00:31:05.339
From the peace party.

729
00:31:05.339 --> 00:31:06.359
From the peace party.

730
00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:07.200
Coincidence?

731
00:31:07.259 --> 00:31:08.339
I think not.

732
00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:09.480
So what's the connection?

733
00:31:09.539 --> 00:31:10.619
Terrence Dix?

734
00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:14.339
Well, very probably Terrence Sticks, but they are both pacifist

735
00:31:14.339 --> 00:31:16.859
characters who insist there's got to be a better way other than

736
00:31:16.859 --> 00:31:17.099
war.

737
00:31:17.160 --> 00:31:19.740
We're taking this to whole new levels, guys.

738
00:31:19.799 --> 00:31:21.960
It's crazy, isn't it?

739
00:31:22.019 --> 00:31:22.859
We're back on the lift.

740
00:31:23.579 --> 00:31:26.339
There are a couple of sequences that I really like.

741
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:28.680
I love them crawling through the ice tunnels, which I think is

742
00:31:28.680 --> 00:31:32.160
really well realised, even if having a planet full of molten ice

743
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:34.200
makes no sense to my brain.

744
00:31:34.259 --> 00:31:37.920
And I love the ventilation shark, the ventilation shaft.

745
00:31:37.980 --> 00:31:41.519
Obviously, Terry has watched Charlie and the chocolate factory

746
00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:45.599
which came out, you know, a year or so before where Charlie and

747
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:50.099
his grandfather take the drinks and they go, they float the

748
00:31:50.099 --> 00:31:50.640
shafts.

749
00:31:50.700 --> 00:31:54.359
So I kind of think of it in those parallels.

750
00:31:54.420 --> 00:31:55.440
But I really like those sequences.

751
00:31:55.559 --> 00:31:59.339
I think he does good action set pieces, you know, part of the

752
00:31:59.339 --> 00:32:02.700
problem with the Daleks back in 1963 was that was all it had going

753
00:32:02.700 --> 00:32:05.579
for it in for like 3 whole episodes, you know.

754
00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:08.339
But, you know, his reigned in a little bit.

755
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:09.839
There's a little more going on here.

756
00:32:09.900 --> 00:32:13.259
And so there's action set pieces are pretty good.

757
00:32:13.319 --> 00:32:14.880
You know, they're pretty memorable I think.

758
00:32:14.940 --> 00:32:17.160
I do get a bit sick of the bombs, you know?

759
00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:20.400
Something's always detonating the bombs or having to stop the

760
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:21.359
donation of the bombs.

761
00:32:21.420 --> 00:32:23.700
Poor, Katie gets hit on head to the polish.

762
00:32:23.759 --> 00:32:27.539
Founding rock, which should kill Joe, but luckily doesn't.

763
00:32:27.599 --> 00:32:30.119
There's a lot of hitting people on the head with objects in this

764
00:32:30.119 --> 00:32:30.779
story.

765
00:32:30.839 --> 00:32:34.500
There's a lot of hitting them with big sticks and floating mid

766
00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:34.500
air.

767
00:32:34.559 --> 00:32:37.380
But that rock, that's really terrible.

768
00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:41.099
It's like a massive giant polystoring boulder that hits her on the

769
00:32:41.099 --> 00:32:41.220
head.

770
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:45.059
Unfortunately, doesn't break the skin, doesn't mess up her hair

771
00:32:45.059 --> 00:32:49.019
she's able to fix the, you know, recover quite quickly, just makes

772
00:32:49.019 --> 00:32:50.519
you go to sleep. just briefly.

773
00:32:50.579 --> 00:32:51.420
You know, little nap.

774
00:32:51.539 --> 00:32:54.900
It is really lucky that the geology of this planet is formed

775
00:32:54.900 --> 00:32:56.400
entirely from Jabalite.

776
00:32:56.460 --> 00:32:57.480
I just have to say.

777
00:32:57.539 --> 00:32:58.380
Yes, I think that would be it.

778
00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:02.519
Now, we've got the plane of stones.

779
00:33:03.480 --> 00:33:07.859
I actually quite like them in the set of the Plainest Stones, the

780
00:33:07.859 --> 00:33:09.480
Men Lookout Museum.

781
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:11.819
I light things.

782
00:33:11.880 --> 00:33:12.660
Yeah they're pretty good.

783
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:17.099
But then, of course, in episode 5 when we get into daylight, then

784
00:33:17.099 --> 00:33:21.779
we can actually go, for no apparent reason, on to location, just

785
00:33:21.779 --> 00:33:25.440
so we can push the Dalek into a ice canoe.

786
00:33:25.500 --> 00:33:28.799
So tell me, does this ice kill the Daleks?

787
00:33:29.819 --> 00:33:34.319
Well, the doctor says that the extreme cold will make them dormant

788
00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:37.380
but yeah, I would presume that then throwing the mutant into the

789
00:33:37.380 --> 00:33:38.099
ice.

790
00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:40.859
Oh, maybe that's it. because I thought it killed the Daleks like

791
00:33:40.859 --> 00:33:43.859
when they pushed them into the puddle, but they weren't dead.

792
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:44.700
Did it kill him straight away?

793
00:33:44.759 --> 00:33:48.000
I don't think it did because when they go to open it, they're like

794
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:48.660
what if it's still alive?

795
00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:51.000
The doctor says something like, oh, no, no, no, it'll be dormant

796
00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:51.480
you'll be fine.

797
00:33:51.539 --> 00:33:52.079
Okay.

798
00:33:52.140 --> 00:33:53.940
So then they throw it in Denning.

799
00:33:54.059 --> 00:33:54.900
Then they throw it in there.

800
00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:56.400
But they do come around it. get to see that.

801
00:33:56.460 --> 00:33:58.140
Which, again, is from the Daleks.

802
00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:00.420
We don't get to see them lift things out.

803
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:02.400
Now there's 10,000 Daleks.

804
00:34:02.460 --> 00:34:06.900
They do make a valiant attempt to sort of cut from the actor's

805
00:34:06.900 --> 00:34:09.480
faces to looking at the 10,000.

806
00:34:09.900 --> 00:34:10.559
I think they're all right.

807
00:34:10.619 --> 00:34:11.579
Yeah, you know.

808
00:34:11.639 --> 00:34:12.840
As I said, a valiant effort.

809
00:34:12.840 --> 00:34:14.639
They move around. and stuff.

810
00:34:14.699 --> 00:34:17.099
I mean, how else are you going to do it?

811
00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:18.420
for 1973.

812
00:34:18.539 --> 00:34:19.440
No CG.

813
00:34:19.500 --> 00:34:22.260
I never thought this phrase would be uttered, but if only they'd

814
00:34:22.260 --> 00:34:22.980
had Daypole.

815
00:34:22.980 --> 00:34:24.599
If only they had.

816
00:34:24.659 --> 00:34:27.900
It is rather convenient that there's a back passage out of that

817
00:34:27.900 --> 00:34:33.780
entire refrigeration area, which they discovering episode six.

818
00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:36.659
But they didn't have access to an episode before.

819
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:39.420
Like if they've gone through the arsenal and up those things, they

820
00:34:39.420 --> 00:34:40.440
wouldn't have had to, yeah.

821
00:34:40.920 --> 00:34:42.239
I haven't really thought of that before.

822
00:34:42.300 --> 00:34:45.780
Well, you know, like there's catwalks that lead up to the outside

823
00:34:45.780 --> 00:34:49.739
which the doctor suddenly realises must be there in episode six

824
00:34:49.739 --> 00:34:52.500
which would have been very useful from when they were escaping

825
00:34:52.500 --> 00:34:52.980
earlier.

826
00:34:53.099 --> 00:34:55.440
But hey, we got to have a 12 episode story, so it's not going to

827
00:34:55.440 --> 00:34:56.099
happen, isn't it?

828
00:34:56.159 --> 00:34:58.079
Are you saying you just didn't like merit very much?

829
00:34:58.139 --> 00:34:59.699
Yeah, maybe that was it.

830
00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:03.599
The doctor couldn't figure out the linguistic and thematic

831
00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:06.960
connection of Marritt's name, so he had to go. had to go.

832
00:35:07.019 --> 00:35:10.380
Of course, the files have to get off the planet somewhere, and of

833
00:35:10.380 --> 00:35:12.659
course, the only way they're going to get off is biodalek

834
00:35:12.659 --> 00:35:13.260
spaceship.

835
00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:16.079
So the Dalek Supreme arrives.

836
00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:18.719
One of my favourite Daleks.

837
00:35:18.780 --> 00:35:20.579
Oh, tell us about it and what?

838
00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:23.940
Oh, he just looks impressive, you know.

839
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:25.500
The black and gold colour scheme.

840
00:35:25.559 --> 00:35:26.400
I have the toy here.

841
00:35:26.460 --> 00:35:29.340
It's one of the 1st Doctor Who toys I bought when I moved to the

842
00:35:29.340 --> 00:35:34.260
UK because it came out in a pack with a Dalek from the original

843
00:35:34.260 --> 00:35:37.500
story of the Daleks, and I believe the Dalek from Genesis of the

844
00:35:37.500 --> 00:35:37.980
Daleks.

845
00:35:38.039 --> 00:35:40.679
It's got a flashlight in its eye.

846
00:35:40.739 --> 00:35:44.340
It's got 2 jam jars, it's black and gold and glorious.

847
00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:46.739
And of course, the lights don't come on at the right time.

848
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:49.860
You can't tell who's speaking some of the time, actually, because

849
00:35:49.860 --> 00:35:51.900
the operator can't make the lights.

850
00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:55.320
Maybe it's because they're wired, the flashlight in or something

851
00:35:55.320 --> 00:35:58.980
but it doesn't respond quickly enough to the switch or something.

852
00:35:59.039 --> 00:36:03.300
So it sort of goes on and off really slowly and I'm not entirely

853
00:36:03.300 --> 00:36:04.139
sure that it works.

854
00:36:04.199 --> 00:36:07.440
But it does continue the tradition of having the chief dalek be

855
00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:11.219
even more shrieky and kind of hysterical than everyone else, which

856
00:36:11.219 --> 00:36:11.940
I kind of like.

857
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:14.460
And I do like I like the flashlight.

858
00:36:14.519 --> 00:36:18.659
Yeah, I mean, this dalek is actually adapted from one of the film

859
00:36:18.659 --> 00:36:23.519
daleks from Dalek Invasion Earth, 2150 AD. Did Terry Nation own

860
00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:23.760
it?

861
00:36:23.820 --> 00:36:26.579
Terry Nation owned it and loaned it out to production. and that's

862
00:36:26.579 --> 00:36:28.320
why its neck rings are a bit different.

863
00:36:28.380 --> 00:36:31.079
It doesn't have the slats between the neck rings.

864
00:36:31.139 --> 00:36:33.960
I also believe, and I could be wrong on this.

865
00:36:34.019 --> 00:36:36.780
I believe that whoever was operating it, this was actually their

866
00:36:36.780 --> 00:36:39.599
1st time inside the Dalek, which is why the lights were a bit

867
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:40.380
off.

868
00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:45.239
And what's amazing about the Supreme Dalek is the Supreme Dalek

869
00:36:45.239 --> 00:36:45.780
survives.

870
00:36:46.199 --> 00:36:50.159
Yes, it's stranded on the chases after the doctor.

871
00:36:50.340 --> 00:36:54.659
So much like the end of the last story, we have the doctor and Joe

872
00:36:54.659 --> 00:36:57.300
leaving, they had solved the immediate problem, but this world

873
00:36:57.300 --> 00:36:58.019
still goes on.

874
00:36:58.079 --> 00:36:59.099
This world still exists.

875
00:36:59.159 --> 00:37:02.400
They've still got the Spiridonians and they're still 3 or 4 Daleks

876
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:04.079
on the planet and they just...

877
00:37:04.139 --> 00:37:06.599
There's somewhere on this planet of 10,000 Daleks.

878
00:37:06.659 --> 00:37:09.780
They're all in an ice canoe and Big Finish would return to that.

879
00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:10.739
Oh, really?

880
00:37:10.739 --> 00:37:14.940
Yep, with Sylvester McCoy in a story called Return of the Daleks

881
00:37:14.940 --> 00:37:18.780
which was the working title for this and every other Terry Nation

882
00:37:18.780 --> 00:37:20.159
written Dalek story in the 70s.

883
00:37:20.219 --> 00:37:25.260
And it ties in with their excellent Dalek Empire series of audios

884
00:37:25.260 --> 00:37:27.960
which features Gareth Thomas and Sarah Mowat.

885
00:37:28.079 --> 00:37:29.159
Wow.

886
00:37:29.219 --> 00:37:31.139
Do I have to listen to those?

887
00:37:31.260 --> 00:37:32.280
No, thanks.

888
00:37:32.340 --> 00:37:34.920
I give you permission not to listen to those.

889
00:37:34.980 --> 00:37:36.719
They've also got David Tennant at some of them.

890
00:37:36.780 --> 00:37:38.340
Oh, cool.

891
00:37:38.820 --> 00:37:43.260
Click hanging at episode 3 and the reprise in episode 4 is

892
00:37:43.260 --> 00:37:44.159
actually different.

893
00:37:44.219 --> 00:37:48.059
Do you know, in this story, the Cliffhanger to episode one and the

894
00:37:48.059 --> 00:37:50.039
reprise for episode 2 are different as well?

895
00:37:50.099 --> 00:37:54.480
So they don't go back and have a reprise of a few minutes.

896
00:37:54.539 --> 00:37:56.820
I actually thought there's one cliffhanger.

897
00:37:56.880 --> 00:37:59.400
It's like Weber imperil cliffhanger, as if we cared.

898
00:38:01.019 --> 00:38:03.840
Yes, that's terribly boring, isn't it?

899
00:38:03.900 --> 00:38:06.659
I guess he's got the bombs, which we're all terribly interested in

900
00:38:06.659 --> 00:38:07.199
all the time.

901
00:38:07.980 --> 00:38:10.199
But yeah, you know, if it was literally any of the other files

902
00:38:10.199 --> 00:38:11.760
except for Marritt, we care more.

903
00:38:11.820 --> 00:38:13.440
Because we don't like Vaber.

904
00:38:13.500 --> 00:38:14.460
No.

905
00:38:14.579 --> 00:38:17.159
And it's not just because he's Prentice Hancock.

906
00:38:17.219 --> 00:38:19.860
But it's mostly because he's Prentice Hancock.

907
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:20.639
Yeah, that's right.

908
00:38:20.699 --> 00:38:23.579
Yes, I think it's comparing her to episode 4 and 5 because I've

909
00:38:23.579 --> 00:38:25.860
got here cliffhanger speaking grimace.

910
00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:29.760
So the grimace sponsors is going, oh, whatever.

911
00:38:29.820 --> 00:38:33.239
And then Waver is finally killed in episode 5 in my show notes.

912
00:38:33.300 --> 00:38:33.840
Finally.

913
00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:38.760
Prentice Hancock appears, I believe, 4 times in Doctor Who.

914
00:38:38.820 --> 00:38:41.340
And in 2 of them, he's just sort of supporting.

915
00:38:41.400 --> 00:38:45.179
But whenever he has a main role, he always gets a quite

916
00:38:45.179 --> 00:38:47.099
spectacular death.

917
00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:50.280
So in this, you know, he's killed by the Daleks and in Planet of

918
00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:50.699
Evil.

919
00:38:50.760 --> 00:38:52.440
Does he get killed by the thing?

920
00:38:52.500 --> 00:38:55.079
He gets killed by the thing after he goes insane.

921
00:38:55.139 --> 00:38:56.699
But we'll comment on that later.

922
00:38:57.719 --> 00:38:59.219
Anything else?

923
00:38:59.219 --> 00:39:01.559
I was just going to get back to something you were saying earlier

924
00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:03.780
Todd, that, you know, you had to watch this with gaps and you had

925
00:39:03.780 --> 00:39:04.380
to put it on.

926
00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:06.780
I remember you texting me and saying, I'm taking 3 days off.

927
00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:07.559
I can't handle it.

928
00:39:07.619 --> 00:39:08.820
I really struggle.

929
00:39:08.940 --> 00:39:14.519
This is one of the stories which, if I've got a rainy day by

930
00:39:14.519 --> 00:39:15.000
myself.

931
00:39:15.059 --> 00:39:18.179
This is one of the ones I put on and I just sit back and I watch

932
00:39:18.179 --> 00:39:19.619
the whole thing in one go.

933
00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:25.019
This is, this is me with a bucket of ice cream and a spoon style

934
00:39:25.019 --> 00:39:28.920
Doctor Who, you know, this is Doctor Who for certainly not the

935
00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:34.380
soul, but the waistline of the brain, you know, it's fattening and

936
00:39:34.380 --> 00:39:37.860
it's terrible and it's stupid, but I love it so much.

937
00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:41.519
Do you know, I think I think Pertu is often like that, and even

938
00:39:41.519 --> 00:39:43.139
bad Pertu is a lot like that.

939
00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:48.539
I have hugely, hugely fond memories of this story, not because of

940
00:39:48.539 --> 00:39:53.400
seeing it on broadcast or, you know, in repeats, because I read

941
00:39:53.400 --> 00:39:57.480
the novelisation long before I ever saw it, and the novelisation

942
00:39:57.480 --> 00:39:58.019
is great.

943
00:39:58.079 --> 00:39:59.219
It's not massively long.

944
00:39:59.340 --> 00:40:03.420
It's not one of Terrence's more sort of Florida or well worked out

945
00:40:03.420 --> 00:40:05.760
efforts, but it's really, really enjoyable.

946
00:40:05.820 --> 00:40:10.980
And Terrence's pros, combined with the plotty action thing that

947
00:40:10.980 --> 00:40:12.179
Terry is able to do.

948
00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:13.440
It's really good.

949
00:40:13.500 --> 00:40:14.340
I really like it.

950
00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:18.960
Apparently, according to Richard, it's Mark Gatis's favourite

951
00:40:19.079 --> 00:40:24.780
target novelisation and it's actually available, read by Mark

952
00:40:24.780 --> 00:40:27.480
Gatis, which is really, really nice.

953
00:40:27.539 --> 00:40:29.639
So I'm listening to it again at the moment.

954
00:40:29.699 --> 00:40:32.099
The novel is very influential.

955
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:36.539
It's one of 2 novels that was abridged and read by Pertwi in the

956
00:40:36.539 --> 00:40:39.300
90s shortly before he passed away, the other being cursed

957
00:40:39.300 --> 00:40:39.900
peladin.

958
00:40:39.960 --> 00:40:47.219
There's a very funny, but not suitable for younger people edit of

959
00:40:47.219 --> 00:40:49.980
Pertwee's reading of the novel on YouTube, and that's all I'm

960
00:40:49.980 --> 00:40:50.340
going to say.

961
00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:55.920
But also the cover by Chris O Kelly or Swift, the doctor and Taryn

962
00:40:55.920 --> 00:40:59.159
fighting the Daleg and Planet in the background and Comet

963
00:40:59.159 --> 00:40:59.820
streaming down.

964
00:40:59.880 --> 00:41:03.599
If you look at the DVD cover next to it, Clayton Hickman has

965
00:41:03.599 --> 00:41:08.639
recreated that in Photoshop and it's an amazing piece.

966
00:41:08.699 --> 00:41:11.519
And when it came out, there were lots of criticisms against him

967
00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:14.159
about how can you steal that design?

968
00:41:14.219 --> 00:41:17.039
And it's like, no, it's not stealing the design.

969
00:41:17.099 --> 00:41:19.019
It's paying homage to design.

970
00:41:19.079 --> 00:41:21.659
Yeah, because it's so wonderful and iconic.

971
00:41:21.719 --> 00:41:25.679
Yeah, well, Brendan, you know, I'm pleased that you enjoy this

972
00:41:25.679 --> 00:41:26.760
story on a rainy day.

973
00:41:26.820 --> 00:41:32.940
I struggled through it and it's part of the scientific concepts

974
00:41:32.940 --> 00:41:35.880
which are very 1960s.

975
00:41:35.880 --> 00:41:38.820
It's very pulp 50s sci-fi down there sort of stuff.

976
00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:42.599
And, you know, I don't, it's not the worst story I've ever, it's

977
00:41:42.599 --> 00:41:45.539
not my least favourite by anythings, but, you know, I found it

978
00:41:45.539 --> 00:41:50.099
laborious and, you know, I think it's certainly one of the weaker

979
00:41:50.099 --> 00:41:51.239
per twist for me.

980
00:41:51.300 --> 00:41:55.380
Certainly, this approach was dated back in 1963.

981
00:41:55.559 --> 00:41:59.340
Yeah, and they would, they would in the next couple of years, Terry

982
00:41:59.340 --> 00:42:02.219
Nation's a bit scripts again, and they really tighten them up and

983
00:42:02.219 --> 00:42:03.360
make him produce new ideas.

984
00:42:03.420 --> 00:42:04.619
But you know what?

985
00:42:04.679 --> 00:42:08.519
I'm going to give the last comment on this to Rod, which was, you

986
00:42:08.519 --> 00:42:09.900
know, he quite enjoyed it.

987
00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:10.860
He liked the designs.

988
00:42:10.920 --> 00:42:13.980
He said that the statues outside the Dalek City actually look a

989
00:42:13.980 --> 00:42:15.420
bit like Totemic Daleks.

990
00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:21.119
But in the end, he said, I want to enjoy this story more, but I

991
00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:22.139
don't.

992
00:42:22.199 --> 00:42:23.159
Great comment.

993
00:42:32.219 --> 00:42:36.420
So, um, yeah, hurtling towards the end of the season now with uh

994
00:42:36.420 --> 00:42:41.760
the Green Death, and uh, just in that little interstitial void, we

995
00:42:41.760 --> 00:42:46.320
actually had our 1st baked good for quite a while, pistachio and

996
00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:48.780
green Death, tea, cupcakes.

997
00:42:48.840 --> 00:42:51.119
And you'll see the recipe for those online.

998
00:42:51.179 --> 00:42:55.739
You're also noticing the photo I made a little maggot out of icing

999
00:42:55.739 --> 00:42:56.699
just for this story.

1000
00:42:56.760 --> 00:42:57.840
They were delicious.

1001
00:42:57.900 --> 00:42:58.980
Thank you, Brendan.

1002
00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:01.440
And the front axial projection was particularly effective.

1003
00:43:01.500 --> 00:43:02.639
Yeah, as well.

1004
00:43:02.699 --> 00:43:04.079
It serves a very similar function.

1005
00:43:04.139 --> 00:43:09.599
So the end of the season, the end of the 10th anniversary season.

1006
00:43:09.659 --> 00:43:13.320
This one is mine, and it is quite a favourite for me.

1007
00:43:13.380 --> 00:43:16.440
The 1st episode is a bit of an odd one for me.

1008
00:43:16.500 --> 00:43:21.900
I've very rarely seen it because when I was growing up, the copies

1009
00:43:21.900 --> 00:43:26.880
of the episodes that we had recorded off ABC TV would sometimes

1010
00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:30.539
have the 1st episode at the back of the tape of the previous

1011
00:43:30.539 --> 00:43:31.260
story.

1012
00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:34.559
So to get to the Green Death, I had to fast forward through 6

1013
00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:36.960
episodes of Planet of the Daleks.

1014
00:43:37.019 --> 00:43:40.199
And our green death tape only had episodes 2 to 6.

1015
00:43:40.260 --> 00:43:44.519
But that 1st episode is so very, very important.

1016
00:43:44.820 --> 00:43:48.960
It's another example of Robert Sloman delaying someone getting

1017
00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:49.739
into the plot.

1018
00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:52.500
You know, the doctor goes off on his trip to Metabelist 3, which I

1019
00:43:52.500 --> 00:43:54.300
never realised was shot on location.

1020
00:43:54.360 --> 00:43:58.079
Shot on location and at night, it looks like, as well.

1021
00:43:58.139 --> 00:44:00.780
Yeah, it was shot between 4 and 7 p.m.

1022
00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:04.619
And as you drive up to the mine, you get a perspective shot, I

1023
00:44:04.619 --> 00:44:07.380
think, at the end of episode one with the doctor in the brig

1024
00:44:07.380 --> 00:44:11.579
driving up to the mine, you see 3 roads, like one going straight

1025
00:44:11.579 --> 00:44:13.500
ahead and 2 veering off to the right.

1026
00:44:13.559 --> 00:44:16.440
If you take the 1st road, you go to the metabolis 3 quarry or

1027
00:44:16.440 --> 00:44:18.179
metabolis 3 will come to that.

1028
00:44:18.239 --> 00:44:21.119
If you take the 2nd road, you go to the nut hutch.

1029
00:44:21.239 --> 00:44:22.739
And if you take the 3rd road, you go to the mine.

1030
00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:25.079
So all the locations were really quite close together.

1031
00:44:25.139 --> 00:44:25.739
Right.

1032
00:44:25.739 --> 00:44:26.340
Wow.

1033
00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:29.340
Yeah, it was a very economical way to do it.

1034
00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:33.059
We've got Michael Lee Bryant back as director.

1035
00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:35.099
What did he do previously?

1036
00:44:35.159 --> 00:44:37.980
He's done the sea devils, colony in space.

1037
00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:42.659
He's never done a Sloman Letts finale though before.

1038
00:44:42.719 --> 00:44:43.980
No, he hasn't.

1039
00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:44.699
And you know what?

1040
00:44:44.760 --> 00:44:47.760
I think it really picks up the script.

1041
00:44:47.820 --> 00:44:52.079
You know, out of the Damons, the Time Monster, and this.

1042
00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:56.460
Firstly, I think the script is a big improvement. the last two.

1043
00:44:56.519 --> 00:44:58.800
It is the best of these 3 scripts.

1044
00:44:58.920 --> 00:45:00.960
Well, I think it's the best of these 4 scripts.

1045
00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:03.360
Spoiler alert for spiders.

1046
00:45:03.420 --> 00:45:08.099
I actually think Sloman and Let's do a pretty terrible job of

1047
00:45:08.099 --> 00:45:09.119
these finales.

1048
00:45:09.179 --> 00:45:13.079
And the last 2 have been really bad, like increasingly bad.

1049
00:45:13.139 --> 00:45:15.059
And this is one that they get right.

1050
00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:16.500
I have to get it right.

1051
00:45:16.559 --> 00:45:19.199
You know, Katie's leaving and I think they, you know, they really

1052
00:45:19.199 --> 00:45:20.699
want to try and construct something for her.

1053
00:45:20.760 --> 00:45:24.360
And so the problems with the scripts that we identified before

1054
00:45:24.360 --> 00:45:27.780
which were largely pacing problems and the fact that incidents

1055
00:45:27.780 --> 00:45:30.960
would get introduced and then thrown away and things happened with

1056
00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:34.260
no sort of real character purpose, that's happening much less

1057
00:45:34.260 --> 00:45:34.860
here.

1058
00:45:34.920 --> 00:45:39.480
Yeah, I think because Robert Sloiman has a central idea, which he

1059
00:45:39.480 --> 00:45:43.139
has to deal with, which really is the leaving the departure of

1060
00:45:43.139 --> 00:45:47.400
Katie Manning, which, spoiler alert listeners, happens in episode

1061
00:45:47.400 --> 00:45:49.139
6 of this story, or does it?

1062
00:45:49.199 --> 00:45:50.159
I'll come back to that in a moment.

1063
00:45:50.219 --> 00:45:53.460
Barry Litts has spoken about the sort of writing process that he

1064
00:45:53.460 --> 00:45:54.780
and Robert Sloman would do.

1065
00:45:54.840 --> 00:45:55.440
Right.

1066
00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:59.039
And pretty much, because they lived quite close by, they were very

1067
00:45:59.039 --> 00:45:59.460
good friends.

1068
00:45:59.519 --> 00:46:04.380
Robert Sloman was the only writer who was commissioned for each of

1069
00:46:04.380 --> 00:46:06.599
his stories before a storyline had been written up.

1070
00:46:06.659 --> 00:46:09.300
Usually writers would have to send in a storyline which they'd get

1071
00:46:09.300 --> 00:46:09.900
commissioned from.

1072
00:46:09.960 --> 00:46:13.380
But because Barry had worked with Robert and knew how he worked.

1073
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:15.059
They would come up with an idea.

1074
00:46:15.119 --> 00:46:21.360
And the idea for this story was actually alien amoeboid creatures

1075
00:46:21.360 --> 00:46:25.920
instead of the maggots, and they were invading and they've been

1076
00:46:25.920 --> 00:46:27.420
sent by this forced da da da.

1077
00:46:27.480 --> 00:46:31.920
But then there was an article published all about how humanity

1078
00:46:31.920 --> 00:46:37.500
can't keep using the planet on its current course and 100s of

1079
00:46:37.500 --> 00:46:42.239
scientists and reporters and whatnot signed off on it, saying, yeah

1080
00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:43.679
this is this is actually true.

1081
00:46:43.739 --> 00:46:45.900
And that's where the environmental angle came from.

1082
00:46:45.960 --> 00:46:47.820
I think it's pretty much ahead of its time.

1083
00:46:47.880 --> 00:46:51.719
And I remember as a kid watching this, thinking, oh, you know, all

1084
00:46:51.719 --> 00:46:55.440
this stuff's bad, you know, refineries and all that.

1085
00:46:55.500 --> 00:46:59.820
I mean, you might pull a face, Nathan, but I come from a very

1086
00:46:59.820 --> 00:47:02.460
conservative background with certain worldviews, and I was never

1087
00:47:02.460 --> 00:47:07.019
exposed to things like, you know, the advancement of technology is

1088
00:47:07.019 --> 00:47:09.360
a bad thing, whereas this was presenting me as something that I

1089
00:47:09.360 --> 00:47:11.159
never really thought about in any way, shape, or form.

1090
00:47:11.219 --> 00:47:12.360
It was around.

1091
00:47:12.420 --> 00:47:16.380
You remember when we talked about Planet of Giants, we talked

1092
00:47:16.380 --> 00:47:20.219
about a few sort of cultural influences, including the silent

1093
00:47:20.219 --> 00:47:24.300
spring and things, which suggested that ideas about pollution and

1094
00:47:24.300 --> 00:47:26.039
stuff were around in the wider culture.

1095
00:47:26.099 --> 00:47:28.920
So I don't know that I don't know that this story's ahead of its

1096
00:47:28.920 --> 00:47:30.300
time, but it's very timely.

1097
00:47:30.360 --> 00:47:31.380
Do you know what I mean?

1098
00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:36.539
And I think what they're trying to do, and I think as excellent as

1099
00:47:36.539 --> 00:47:39.300
the amoeboids storyline might have been.

1100
00:47:39.420 --> 00:47:44.760
The idea is that the whole story is structured around Joe's reason

1101
00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:50.460
for leaving and Joe leaves in order to continue the fight, in

1102
00:47:50.460 --> 00:47:53.880
order to fight for her principles, not in sort of stupid made-up

1103
00:47:53.880 --> 00:47:59.159
science fiction planets in TV studios, but in the world that she

1104
00:47:59.159 --> 00:48:00.179
actually comes from.

1105
00:48:00.239 --> 00:48:03.659
So the whole thing is structured around that reason for leaving.

1106
00:48:03.719 --> 00:48:07.739
And so rather than aliens, it's about pollution.

1107
00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:10.679
And there's a sense in which it's all very simplistic.

1108
00:48:10.739 --> 00:48:11.460
Do you know what I mean?

1109
00:48:11.519 --> 00:48:16.019
Like the corporation is very evil and very obviously evil and and

1110
00:48:16.019 --> 00:48:19.380
hippies are very obviously good and pollution is very bad and all

1111
00:48:19.380 --> 00:48:20.039
of that sort of thing.

1112
00:48:20.099 --> 00:48:23.579
There's nothing sort of massively subtle about any of that, but

1113
00:48:23.579 --> 00:48:28.139
it's thematically all structured around the need to give Joe a

1114
00:48:28.139 --> 00:48:28.920
good reason to leave.

1115
00:48:28.980 --> 00:48:31.079
And when does she leave, Brendan?

1116
00:48:31.139 --> 00:48:32.579
Joe leaves in episode one.

1117
00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:35.940
When we 1st see the doctor and Joe, they're actually kind of

1118
00:48:35.940 --> 00:48:41.820
mirroring the last Robert Sloman season finale with Joe reading a

1119
00:48:41.820 --> 00:48:45.659
newspaper and the doctor not paying any attention to her and they

1120
00:48:45.659 --> 00:48:50.699
get into they get into their mock argument of not listening to

1121
00:48:50.699 --> 00:48:51.179
each other.

1122
00:48:51.300 --> 00:48:54.000
And it does look like it's going to come to blows and then they

1123
00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:56.099
both laugh and yeah, everything's happy and whatnot.

1124
00:48:56.159 --> 00:49:01.139
But this time, instead of just going along with the doctor when he

1125
00:49:01.139 --> 00:49:03.780
dismisses it, Joe's like, no, no, we really have to do this.

1126
00:49:03.780 --> 00:49:06.960
And the doctor pulls out every trick.

1127
00:49:07.079 --> 00:49:10.079
Like, I'm not just offering you metabulous three, I'm offering you

1128
00:49:10.079 --> 00:49:11.820
all of time and space.

1129
00:49:11.880 --> 00:49:15.780
And what's amazing is, you know, he has a persuasive argument

1130
00:49:15.780 --> 00:49:16.920
which is it's a time machine.

1131
00:49:16.980 --> 00:49:20.219
We'll be back before we left, but Joe's reaction, isn't it?

1132
00:49:20.280 --> 00:49:22.019
You know, no, this is this is morality.

1133
00:49:22.139 --> 00:49:25.320
I can't just run off and have fun while my planets dying.

1134
00:49:25.860 --> 00:49:30.119
And when she decides.

1135
00:49:30.239 --> 00:49:33.300
No, no, absolutely not, I'm going off with the brigadier.

1136
00:49:33.360 --> 00:49:35.519
That's when the doctor actually agrees to go to Wales.

1137
00:49:36.059 --> 00:49:39.360
Because the brigadier has been in saying to him, oh, you've got to

1138
00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:39.539
come down.

1139
00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:41.340
You've got to come down and the doctor's like, no, I'm going off

1140
00:49:41.340 --> 00:49:41.699
on a trip.

1141
00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:42.960
He doesn't say the brigadier.

1142
00:49:43.019 --> 00:49:43.559
Ill follow you down.

1143
00:49:43.619 --> 00:49:46.139
It's when Joe is leaving to go down there.

1144
00:49:46.199 --> 00:49:48.179
He says, I'll follow you down.

1145
00:49:48.239 --> 00:49:49.860
It's interesting.

1146
00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:53.760
I remember watching this as a kid, that entire sequence, and I

1147
00:49:53.760 --> 00:49:56.460
just said to myself, Joe's going to leave.

1148
00:49:56.519 --> 00:50:01.260
I just, you know, how that things flick in your mind. and it's

1149
00:50:01.260 --> 00:50:02.280
just that realisation.

1150
00:50:02.340 --> 00:50:06.239
I love the drive down with her and the brig and that's a nice

1151
00:50:06.239 --> 00:50:06.840
little moment.

1152
00:50:06.900 --> 00:50:09.719
The thing that I really love about that leaving scene just before

1153
00:50:09.719 --> 00:50:15.000
they head off is that the doctor realises that Joe's leaving, but

1154
00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:16.679
Joe doesn't realise that.

1155
00:50:16.739 --> 00:50:17.460
Yes, yes, yes.

1156
00:50:17.519 --> 00:50:19.800
And she seems so young there.

1157
00:50:19.860 --> 00:50:20.760
Do you know what I mean?

1158
00:50:20.820 --> 00:50:21.900
Like, he's old.

1159
00:50:21.960 --> 00:50:26.219
He kind of knows what's coming, but she doesn't.

1160
00:50:26.280 --> 00:50:28.139
And I think that's lovely and poignant.

1161
00:50:28.199 --> 00:50:32.639
And the thing is, for the 1st time with poetry, I think we're

1162
00:50:32.639 --> 00:50:34.199
getting a little bit of interiority.

1163
00:50:34.260 --> 00:50:34.920
Do you know what I mean?

1164
00:50:34.980 --> 00:50:36.000
It's nothing major.

1165
00:50:36.059 --> 00:50:38.340
He's not that interesting a character.

1166
00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:41.460
But at least we do start to see these things from his point of

1167
00:50:41.460 --> 00:50:41.639
view.

1168
00:50:41.699 --> 00:50:44.519
Yeah, well, for want of a better word.

1169
00:50:44.579 --> 00:50:47.579
Joe is the character who has given him his humanity.

1170
00:50:47.639 --> 00:50:50.219
You know, his his empathy.

1171
00:50:50.400 --> 00:50:53.880
And now he knows she's going away.

1172
00:50:53.940 --> 00:50:58.380
But because he's got that sense of empathy and that sense of

1173
00:50:58.380 --> 00:51:01.980
fairness now because of her, he won't say anything.

1174
00:51:02.219 --> 00:51:04.440
I'm not choking up now.

1175
00:51:04.500 --> 00:51:08.639
I choke up in that 1st scene when she 1st leaves, which brings us

1176
00:51:08.639 --> 00:51:11.280
then to the cliffhanger of that episode where she's falling in the

1177
00:51:11.280 --> 00:51:12.059
mind.

1178
00:51:12.119 --> 00:51:15.960
It's the standard Doctor Who thing of, you know, it's the close-up

1179
00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:17.460
of the doctor's reaction to the situation.

1180
00:51:17.519 --> 00:51:20.400
But the doctor's reaction to this situation.

1181
00:51:20.460 --> 00:51:24.480
It's pertly saying what, but it's pertly's face saying, I'll never

1182
00:51:24.480 --> 00:51:30.000
see her again. you know, and so he, yeah, jams a piece of metal

1183
00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:33.420
into the works to make it stop and has to hold it there, which

1184
00:51:33.420 --> 00:51:35.099
could wrench his arms off.

1185
00:51:35.159 --> 00:51:36.420
He does that all to save his friend.

1186
00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:40.079
It's one of those wonderful accents it's not commented on.

1187
00:51:40.139 --> 00:51:42.960
But it's one of those wonderful acts which is both selfless and

1188
00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:43.619
selfish.

1189
00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:46.920
He's doing it to save Joe, but he's doing it to save Joe because

1190
00:51:46.920 --> 00:51:48.059
he can't live without her.

1191
00:51:48.480 --> 00:51:52.019
Yeah, Robert Simon is just knocking it out of the park with this

1192
00:51:52.019 --> 00:51:52.260
one.

1193
00:51:52.320 --> 00:51:55.800
He's given proper human emotions to work with.

1194
00:51:55.860 --> 00:51:59.760
And I think that is kind of what was missing in the Time Monster

1195
00:51:59.760 --> 00:52:02.820
and to an extent in the Damons as well.

1196
00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:03.780
The Damons.

1197
00:52:03.900 --> 00:52:04.739
A very large extent.

1198
00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:07.920
Well, the Damons, at least, it had Miss Hawthorne, who was a very

1199
00:52:07.920 --> 00:52:12.960
emotional, empathetic character and it had Joe's attempt at

1200
00:52:12.960 --> 00:52:14.039
sacrifice at the end.

1201
00:52:14.159 --> 00:52:16.800
Whereas time... really terrible.

1202
00:52:17.820 --> 00:52:20.880
Which the time monster didn't have any of that.

1203
00:52:20.940 --> 00:52:23.820
But it looks like, you know, if you give Robert Sloman proper

1204
00:52:23.820 --> 00:52:26.159
emotions to work with, and in my opinion, we'll see this again

1205
00:52:26.159 --> 00:52:26.639
next year.

1206
00:52:26.699 --> 00:52:29.340
He really turns in a good script.

1207
00:52:29.400 --> 00:52:31.860
I really like episode one.

1208
00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:35.699
I love Joe turning up down at the Nut Hutch and a whole meeting

1209
00:52:35.699 --> 00:52:40.079
with Professor Jones, who parallels her very 1st meeting with the

1210
00:52:40.079 --> 00:52:40.679
3rd doctor.

1211
00:52:40.739 --> 00:52:43.380
Yeah, where she gets to clumsily wreck his experiment.

1212
00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:46.559
And he gets angry at her and, you know, there's an instant

1213
00:52:46.559 --> 00:52:50.940
chemistry and, and I guess in this case, you know that he's the

1214
00:52:50.940 --> 00:52:53.280
man that she's going to marry or not.

1215
00:52:53.699 --> 00:52:55.739
It's this thing.

1216
00:52:55.800 --> 00:53:00.420
You know, Santa is vastly more ambiguous about this story than we

1217
00:53:00.420 --> 00:53:00.659
are.

1218
00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:04.739
I really like it, but he thinks much like the other Solomon

1219
00:53:04.739 --> 00:53:05.099
stories.

1220
00:53:05.159 --> 00:53:07.079
It's a bit of a mixed bag.

1221
00:53:07.139 --> 00:53:11.519
And he actually thinks that, um, Cliff is really horrible to Joe

1222
00:53:11.519 --> 00:53:13.739
most of the time and shouts at her and stuff.

1223
00:53:13.800 --> 00:53:16.320
But I have to think it's kind of like a rom-com thing.

1224
00:53:16.380 --> 00:53:17.340
Do you know what I mean?

1225
00:53:17.400 --> 00:53:18.900
Yeah, it's that.

1226
00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:23.280
And also, it highlights the difference between that scene they're

1227
00:53:23.280 --> 00:53:27.780
riffing on from Terror of the Autons and this, because in that

1228
00:53:27.780 --> 00:53:30.539
scene, as soon as she realised she's done the wrong thing.

1229
00:53:30.599 --> 00:53:35.760
Like Joe, Joe is cowed, physically cowed by the doctor in his

1230
00:53:35.760 --> 00:53:38.519
tirade against her as a ham fisted bum vendor.

1231
00:53:38.579 --> 00:53:42.119
Whereas brings back memories, doesn't it?

1232
00:53:42.179 --> 00:53:45.420
Whereas when Cliff tells her off and says she's a bit cloth

1233
00:53:45.420 --> 00:53:45.900
headed.

1234
00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:49.500
She sort of does the whole whatever thing, just...

1235
00:53:49.500 --> 00:53:52.440
And, yeah, she gives it back to her.

1236
00:53:52.500 --> 00:53:53.880
And so it is the rom-com thing.

1237
00:53:53.940 --> 00:53:56.699
You know, it's it's Spencer Tracy and Catherine Hepburn.

1238
00:53:56.760 --> 00:54:01.980
It's some Carrie Grant and Catherine Hepburn.

1239
00:54:02.039 --> 00:54:03.780
Or Doris Stane.

1240
00:54:03.840 --> 00:54:05.760
Doris Day and Catherine Hepburn.

1241
00:54:05.820 --> 00:54:10.079
It's really not quite as good as any of those, though, to be

1242
00:54:10.079 --> 00:54:10.320
fair.

1243
00:54:10.380 --> 00:54:12.000
It is still...

1244
00:54:12.059 --> 00:54:14.519
Well, you know, it's still, well, it's still Doctor Who.

1245
00:54:14.579 --> 00:54:19.739
Yeah, I think even Katie Manning would say that she's not

1246
00:54:19.739 --> 00:54:20.940
Catherine Hepburn.

1247
00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:22.199
Oh, she is.

1248
00:54:22.260 --> 00:54:24.780
I don't think that's a fair criticism delay at anyone.

1249
00:54:24.840 --> 00:54:26.219
You know, Gillian Anderson.

1250
00:54:26.280 --> 00:54:28.199
I don't care how good you are in Bleak House.

1251
00:54:28.260 --> 00:54:29.579
You're not Catherine Hepburn.

1252
00:54:29.699 --> 00:54:32.519
So speaking of people who aren't Catherine Henley.

1253
00:54:32.579 --> 00:54:35.340
The brigadier, it's in this story.

1254
00:54:35.460 --> 00:54:40.739
And you started to say something about how much you liked him and

1255
00:54:40.739 --> 00:54:43.320
Joe in that scene in episode one.

1256
00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:46.260
Yes, he's driving his Mercedes. like, you do?

1257
00:54:46.320 --> 00:54:48.179
1964 Mercedes, yes?

1258
00:54:48.239 --> 00:54:48.539
Oh, really?

1259
00:54:48.599 --> 00:54:49.199
Good on you.

1260
00:54:49.260 --> 00:54:50.159
Yes, well done, bread.

1261
00:54:50.159 --> 00:54:51.179
You've had a couple of years.

1262
00:54:51.179 --> 00:54:52.320
How do you know about cars, Brandon?

1263
00:54:52.380 --> 00:54:53.639
I know, it's weird.

1264
00:54:53.639 --> 00:54:55.019
Kind of dirty.

1265
00:54:55.320 --> 00:54:58.320
But, you know, he's got a really good part to play in this, you

1266
00:54:58.320 --> 00:55:02.340
know, dropping her off down there and I think he's also, isn't he

1267
00:55:02.340 --> 00:55:03.960
talking to Stevens in that?

1268
00:55:04.079 --> 00:55:04.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1269
00:55:04.860 --> 00:55:07.440
And he has that great conversation with all Jones the Milk.

1270
00:55:07.500 --> 00:55:10.320
If you go out that way, you can't miss it, can you?

1271
00:55:10.500 --> 00:55:17.219
Yeah, and then, of course, he, um, uh, back in unit headquarters

1272
00:55:17.219 --> 00:55:19.860
you know, he says, oh, the doctor's galavanting off on a, on a

1273
00:55:19.860 --> 00:55:23.219
pleasure jaunt and in the comic book style that we're now used to

1274
00:55:23.219 --> 00:55:26.159
it cuts straight to the 3rd doctor being attacked by a huge

1275
00:55:26.159 --> 00:55:31.860
tentacle and gurning face, you know, so, you know, um, Barry Letts

1276
00:55:31.860 --> 00:55:33.480
and Terence Sticks are having a whale of a time.

1277
00:55:33.539 --> 00:55:37.739
I actually think that that scene is really clever because it is

1278
00:55:37.739 --> 00:55:40.260
played for comedy and by the time the doctor gets back to the

1279
00:55:40.260 --> 00:55:42.059
Tartar after he retrieves the thing.

1280
00:55:42.119 --> 00:55:46.559
It's just people offscreen throwing things at the TARDIS and like

1281
00:55:46.559 --> 00:55:49.860
there's an assagai and then there's a big tentacle and all of that

1282
00:55:49.860 --> 00:55:51.300
and it's all really deeply silly.

1283
00:55:51.360 --> 00:55:53.039
I don't disagree with you.

1284
00:55:53.039 --> 00:55:57.239
But, but I think it's making a serious point, which is that the

1285
00:55:57.239 --> 00:56:00.360
real reason the doctor wanted to go to Metabela Street.

1286
00:56:00.420 --> 00:56:03.900
He really just wanted to take Joe to Metabelis 3.

1287
00:56:04.079 --> 00:56:06.300
And when she's not there, it's not fun.

1288
00:56:06.360 --> 00:56:07.619
You know?

1289
00:56:08.519 --> 00:56:11.039
So, you know, and they play it up by being silly about it.

1290
00:56:11.099 --> 00:56:12.480
But I think that's it.

1291
00:56:12.539 --> 00:56:14.400
You know, he's offered her all of space and time.

1292
00:56:14.460 --> 00:56:19.500
He's determined not to, you know, reveal that he knows that she's

1293
00:56:19.500 --> 00:56:22.500
leaving or be upset or be too manipulative or anything like that.

1294
00:56:22.559 --> 00:56:26.820
So he sort of goes off petulantly to Metabilist 3 anyway, but he

1295
00:56:26.820 --> 00:56:27.539
has a terrible time.

1296
00:56:28.440 --> 00:56:31.920
It's actually a really well-judged piece of comedy.

1297
00:56:31.980 --> 00:56:36.179
Whereas as much as I love the Time Monster, most of the comedy in

1298
00:56:36.179 --> 00:56:38.460
that is too much.

1299
00:56:38.519 --> 00:56:39.360
You know?

1300
00:56:39.480 --> 00:56:40.679
is not funny.

1301
00:56:40.739 --> 00:56:41.880
That too.

1302
00:56:41.940 --> 00:56:46.440
Whereas this, it's amusing and also dangerous at the same time

1303
00:56:46.440 --> 00:56:48.659
which is which is a really hard balance to do.

1304
00:56:48.719 --> 00:56:54.300
I'm kind of amazed by that essentially silent performance that

1305
00:56:54.300 --> 00:56:55.199
pertly puts in.

1306
00:56:55.260 --> 00:56:57.239
He doesn't utter a word on metabilist 3.

1307
00:56:57.420 --> 00:56:58.199
It's all in his face.

1308
00:56:58.260 --> 00:57:01.920
He does get to Gurn again as a tentacle is reversed off him.

1309
00:57:02.880 --> 00:57:07.920
But also it kind of goes against that thing that he was saying

1310
00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:10.320
last year where the doctor shouldn't be afraid of anything.

1311
00:57:10.380 --> 00:57:13.559
Whereas he does some pretty good scared acting on this planet

1312
00:57:13.559 --> 00:57:16.139
especially when those 2 giant bird feet.

1313
00:57:17.099 --> 00:57:21.900
And I'm going to find a clip to show the listeners, possibly the

1314
00:57:21.900 --> 00:57:26.579
worst monster fight from a Godzilla film ever, that the giant feat

1315
00:57:26.579 --> 00:57:27.360
in that remind me.

1316
00:57:27.420 --> 00:57:28.440
I'm not going to say anymore.

1317
00:57:28.500 --> 00:57:30.420
They thought I'm just going to give you the link to show people.

1318
00:57:30.659 --> 00:57:36.119
And it also means it in itself is funny, but it gives us the best

1319
00:57:36.119 --> 00:57:40.079
gag in my opinion of the story where the phone is ringing

1320
00:57:40.079 --> 00:57:40.500
forever.

1321
00:57:40.559 --> 00:57:42.000
And it's not the brig on the other end.

1322
00:57:42.059 --> 00:57:44.519
The brig has said to the receptionist, look, just keep trying.

1323
00:57:44.639 --> 00:57:45.960
The phone's drinking forever.

1324
00:57:46.019 --> 00:57:46.619
Stellar.

1325
00:57:46.619 --> 00:57:47.219
It's stellar.

1326
00:57:47.280 --> 00:57:48.599
Stellar, the receptionist.

1327
00:57:48.659 --> 00:57:51.960
And then the TARDIS arrives. phone's to ring.

1328
00:57:52.019 --> 00:57:52.860
The doctor steps out.

1329
00:57:52.920 --> 00:57:55.559
He's dazed for a second, realises the phone is ringing, picks it

1330
00:57:55.559 --> 00:57:56.519
up and says, hello, yes.

1331
00:57:56.579 --> 00:57:58.199
Yes, I'll speak to anyone.

1332
00:57:58.559 --> 00:58:03.119
You know, I think, and it just shows Pertwee's talent for comedy

1333
00:58:03.119 --> 00:58:06.900
because he doesn't play it as a funny line.

1334
00:58:06.960 --> 00:58:09.539
It a natural line, which is only funny because of the situation.

1335
00:58:09.599 --> 00:58:12.960
I really like the fact that in this story he gets to dress up as a

1336
00:58:12.960 --> 00:58:14.940
milkman and as a washerwoman.

1337
00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:18.719
He wants, you know, this comedy, I love the milkman performance

1338
00:58:18.719 --> 00:58:18.960
actually.

1339
00:58:19.019 --> 00:58:21.480
I think it's really funny and it's really really good.

1340
00:58:21.539 --> 00:58:24.960
And he's playing it much older. hilarious fake moustache.

1341
00:58:25.019 --> 00:58:26.820
And then he gets the comedy with a fake moustache.

1342
00:58:26.880 --> 00:58:30.000
You know, he's in the building and an announcement goes, there's a

1343
00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:31.860
milkman loose in the building, blah, blah, blah.

1344
00:58:31.920 --> 00:58:35.639
And so he gets into it into a cupboard and he takes the moustache

1345
00:58:35.639 --> 00:58:37.739
off and it sticks to one finger.

1346
00:58:37.800 --> 00:58:40.559
And so he pulls it off the finger with the other finger and it

1347
00:58:40.559 --> 00:58:43.079
sticks to the other finger and he's sort of desperately trying to

1348
00:58:43.079 --> 00:58:43.559
get it.

1349
00:58:43.619 --> 00:58:46.380
You know, just like when he gets to do sort of silly comedy and

1350
00:58:46.380 --> 00:58:50.340
when he's not just, you know, this sort of stayed rigid, you know

1351
00:58:50.340 --> 00:58:53.099
rather unlikeable figure, I think he's great.

1352
00:58:53.159 --> 00:58:54.119
He's terrific as that.

1353
00:58:54.179 --> 00:58:55.500
He's terrific as the washerwoman.

1354
00:58:55.559 --> 00:58:57.420
Sorry, I meant the cleaning lady.

1355
00:58:57.539 --> 00:58:58.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1356
00:58:58.500 --> 00:59:02.760
The cleaning lady and the cleaning lady thing where he does the

1357
00:59:02.760 --> 00:59:06.480
sort of camp voice with Mike and then tries to be all blokey for a

1358
00:59:06.480 --> 00:59:06.659
second.

1359
00:59:06.719 --> 00:59:08.340
Now, Mike, let's talk about something.

1360
00:59:08.400 --> 00:59:12.599
And then someone comes in and asks her how her husband's hippies

1361
00:59:12.599 --> 00:59:13.139
or something.

1362
00:59:13.199 --> 00:59:15.539
Oh, lovely.

1363
00:59:15.539 --> 00:59:16.679
That's right.

1364
00:59:16.739 --> 00:59:18.239
It's just terrific.

1365
00:59:18.300 --> 00:59:22.019
And all that stuff is really good and it's nice to see him sort of

1366
00:59:22.019 --> 00:59:22.920
relaxed enough to do it.

1367
00:59:23.099 --> 00:59:28.619
This story is often attributed to patronising the Welsh.

1368
00:59:28.679 --> 00:59:33.420
When in fact, the Welsh characters actually come up a lot better

1369
00:59:33.420 --> 00:59:36.539
than than the English ones.

1370
00:59:36.599 --> 00:59:39.960
It is a bit patronising in that, you know, people say, boy, and

1371
00:59:39.960 --> 00:59:40.500
what have you.

1372
00:59:40.559 --> 00:59:44.219
But at the same time, people try to condescend them and they're

1373
00:59:44.219 --> 00:59:45.840
like, no, you're not condescending me.

1374
00:59:45.900 --> 00:59:46.440
I a minor.

1375
00:59:46.500 --> 00:59:47.099
I know what I'm doing.

1376
00:59:47.159 --> 00:59:50.519
I think there is a bigger problem than that, and it is with the

1377
00:59:50.519 --> 00:59:51.300
politics of it.

1378
00:59:51.360 --> 00:59:54.420
And again, I just think, you know, not giving you a big political

1379
00:59:54.420 --> 00:59:56.519
story to Malcolm Hulk is a big mistake.

1380
00:59:56.639 --> 00:59:59.760
And that's a mistake that'll be rectified because he does get to

1381
00:59:59.760 --> 01:00:02.880
go back and fix this in the normalisation, which is extremely

1382
01:00:02.880 --> 01:00:03.119
good.

1383
01:00:03.179 --> 01:00:05.099
But it's the opening scene.

1384
01:00:05.159 --> 01:00:09.179
So the opening scene has Stevens, Dr. Stevens, Dr. Stevens, they're

1385
01:00:09.179 --> 01:00:10.260
all doctor in the novelisation.

1386
01:00:10.320 --> 01:00:12.420
I think it's just Stevens in the show.

1387
01:00:12.780 --> 01:00:18.119
And he arrives and he's talking to a group of minors and he's

1388
01:00:18.119 --> 01:00:21.420
talking to a group of the hippies from the Nahach.

1389
01:00:21.480 --> 01:00:27.059
And this is in a historical context where widespread closing of

1390
01:00:27.059 --> 01:00:31.380
coal mines, which, you know, has preceded this and will continue

1391
01:00:31.380 --> 01:00:37.440
causes massive widespread devastation in places like Wales, and

1392
01:00:37.440 --> 01:00:41.400
you know, like completely up ends entire communities and things.

1393
01:00:41.460 --> 01:00:45.719
And so in a sense representing that on the screen is kind of

1394
01:00:45.719 --> 01:00:46.199
interesting.

1395
01:00:46.260 --> 01:00:48.059
But what you have.

1396
01:00:48.119 --> 01:00:49.260
And I think it's a lapse.

1397
01:00:49.320 --> 01:00:51.599
I don't think it's something that infects the entire story.

1398
01:00:51.659 --> 01:00:56.219
But you've got Professor Jones there for a moment lecturing the

1399
01:00:56.219 --> 01:00:56.820
minors.

1400
01:00:56.880 --> 01:00:57.719
Do you know what I mean?

1401
01:00:57.780 --> 01:01:01.139
Like telling the miners off for wanting to participate in an

1402
01:01:01.139 --> 01:01:05.159
industry that causes so much pollution and they have a little

1403
01:01:05.159 --> 01:01:09.659
fight and Dave, the miner, sort of yells at Professor Jones and

1404
01:01:09.659 --> 01:01:09.900
stuff.

1405
01:01:09.960 --> 01:01:13.739
And it's kind of like, you know, we're middle class people and we

1406
01:01:13.739 --> 01:01:15.659
know better than you.

1407
01:01:15.719 --> 01:01:16.679
Do you know what I mean?

1408
01:01:16.739 --> 01:01:21.119
And we're here to tell you why your chosen way of life is wrong or

1409
01:01:21.119 --> 01:01:24.480
you know, that you're to blame or that you're complicit in all of

1410
01:01:24.480 --> 01:01:25.079
this sort of stuff.

1411
01:01:25.139 --> 01:01:28.260
Now, Santa really rides with this and thinks it's a big political

1412
01:01:28.260 --> 01:01:29.280
problem in the story.

1413
01:01:29.280 --> 01:01:32.039
And I think that that's what people are talking about rather than

1414
01:01:32.039 --> 01:01:35.340
the comedy accents when they're talking about patronising the

1415
01:01:35.340 --> 01:01:36.239
Welsh.

1416
01:01:36.360 --> 01:01:40.500
But I have to say, the mine has actually disappeared from the

1417
01:01:40.500 --> 01:01:45.960
story pretty much after Joe and the doctor get rescued from the

1418
01:01:45.960 --> 01:01:46.260
mine.

1419
01:01:46.320 --> 01:01:50.820
And in the meantime, there are a lot of scenes between like Dave

1420
01:01:50.820 --> 01:01:54.719
in particular and Professor Jones where they're quite warm towards

1421
01:01:54.719 --> 01:01:57.840
each other and they're working together and part of the sort of

1422
01:01:57.840 --> 01:01:58.440
same community.

1423
01:01:58.559 --> 01:02:01.619
So, look, there is something, there is something slightly middle

1424
01:02:01.619 --> 01:02:05.219
class about the hippies slightly, terrifyingly middle class about

1425
01:02:05.219 --> 01:02:10.920
the hippies, but I'm not entirely sold on the idea that the minors

1426
01:02:10.920 --> 01:02:12.960
are being heavily patronised to you.

1427
01:02:13.019 --> 01:02:14.039
No, no.

1428
01:02:14.099 --> 01:02:15.480
I mean, I don't think they are either.

1429
01:02:15.539 --> 01:02:16.920
And I think...

1430
01:02:16.920 --> 01:02:21.360
I don't think it's an oversight on the part of Robert Sloman.

1431
01:02:21.480 --> 01:02:25.260
I think what he does in the 1st episode is he makes the audience

1432
01:02:25.260 --> 01:02:29.219
aware that this argument exists that, yes, we need to have cleaner

1433
01:02:29.219 --> 01:02:31.860
energy, but what about the people who are working in the mines?

1434
01:02:31.920 --> 01:02:33.119
What about their livelihoods?

1435
01:02:33.179 --> 01:02:34.380
How are they going to live?

1436
01:02:34.920 --> 01:02:38.760
And I don't think it's something he can answer within this story

1437
01:02:38.760 --> 01:02:40.559
because then you wouldn't have a story.

1438
01:02:40.619 --> 01:02:42.119
You just have a polemic.

1439
01:02:42.179 --> 01:02:44.940
So I think he sort of brings it up and says, look, I am aware of

1440
01:02:44.940 --> 01:02:45.239
this.

1441
01:02:45.300 --> 01:02:49.079
This is happening in this world, but it is too big an issue to be

1442
01:02:49.079 --> 01:02:49.679
solved here.

1443
01:02:49.739 --> 01:02:55.380
And I think in episode 2 and 3, when um, Telf the teeth is working

1444
01:02:55.380 --> 01:02:59.639
with Professor Jones, I think that's sort of his effort to say, you

1445
01:02:59.639 --> 01:03:04.199
know, Okay, Professor Jones wants everything 100% renewable energy

1446
01:03:04.199 --> 01:03:05.039
and no pollution.

1447
01:03:05.760 --> 01:03:11.340
Stevens wants great big fat profits and global chemicals to take

1448
01:03:11.340 --> 01:03:15.239
over the world and therefore produces this sludge and that's

1449
01:03:15.239 --> 01:03:15.480
terrible.

1450
01:03:15.539 --> 01:03:16.739
Coal is somewhere in the middle.

1451
01:03:16.980 --> 01:03:20.639
So I'll, you know, I'll work with these people.

1452
01:03:20.699 --> 01:03:25.500
And yeah, it's, I think it's quite a complex view of the morality

1453
01:03:25.500 --> 01:03:30.900
in that it doesn't attempt to provide any specific answer.

1454
01:03:30.960 --> 01:03:34.559
See, I actually think probably what it's doing is carelessly

1455
01:03:34.559 --> 01:03:39.599
glossing over that and just saying being a big pollution is evil

1456
01:03:39.599 --> 01:03:40.199
polemic.

1457
01:03:40.260 --> 01:03:44.340
I'm not sure that it's quite as subtle as, as um, you're giving it

1458
01:03:44.340 --> 01:03:48.539
credit for, and I guess that's what people see as problematic.

1459
01:03:48.599 --> 01:03:51.780
We can't look at it now without thinking how disastrous, you know

1460
01:03:51.780 --> 01:03:56.579
continuing to dig up coal is now, you know, and how important it's

1461
01:03:56.579 --> 01:03:57.840
been for Australia's economy.

1462
01:03:57.900 --> 01:03:58.619
Do you know what I mean?

1463
01:03:58.679 --> 01:04:02.940
And all of it is sort of dated by global warming and that kind of

1464
01:04:02.940 --> 01:04:03.179
thing.

1465
01:04:03.239 --> 01:04:06.239
I mean, Stevens is proudly proclaiming that you can get more

1466
01:04:06.239 --> 01:04:09.900
petrol and things from an amount of crude oil with this process

1467
01:04:09.900 --> 01:04:14.760
and there's that weird scene where they're cutting between Stevens

1468
01:04:14.760 --> 01:04:18.719
explaining to the brigadier and Professor Jones explaining to the

1469
01:04:18.719 --> 01:04:22.500
doctor about the problems with the Stevens, with the Stevens

1470
01:04:22.500 --> 01:04:23.099
process.

1471
01:04:23.159 --> 01:04:23.880
Do you know what I mean?

1472
01:04:23.940 --> 01:04:25.440
But they're still burning up the oil.

1473
01:04:25.500 --> 01:04:26.880
You know, it's still a problem.

1474
01:04:26.940 --> 01:04:28.019
We're still creating pollution.

1475
01:04:28.320 --> 01:04:33.059
As you say, at the time, in Wales, like these coal mines were

1476
01:04:33.059 --> 01:04:35.219
closing down and people were losing their jobs and losing their

1477
01:04:35.219 --> 01:04:39.000
livelihoods, and it was because deposits of oil had been found.

1478
01:04:39.059 --> 01:04:43.139
And it's this weird thing.

1479
01:04:43.199 --> 01:04:46.739
And I think Stephen's lying about, if that's not progress, I don't

1480
01:04:46.739 --> 01:04:47.219
know what it is.

1481
01:04:47.280 --> 01:04:49.260
Yeah, Robert Slowman is sending it up a bit.

1482
01:04:49.320 --> 01:04:51.599
It's like, we're going to run out of one type of natural

1483
01:04:51.599 --> 01:04:52.199
resource.

1484
01:04:52.260 --> 01:04:55.139
Well, if we use the other natural resource, we won't run out of

1485
01:04:55.139 --> 01:04:55.860
the 1st one.

1486
01:04:55.920 --> 01:04:57.300
See, it'll never run.

1487
01:04:57.360 --> 01:04:58.139
It'll never run out.

1488
01:04:58.199 --> 01:05:02.519
You know, it's that old line about tax avoidance, like buying a

1489
01:05:02.519 --> 01:05:05.340
boat to avoid paying tax because what are you going to pay tax

1490
01:05:05.340 --> 01:05:05.639
on?

1491
01:05:05.699 --> 01:05:06.360
You just bought a boat.

1492
01:05:06.420 --> 01:05:09.599
I do think, you know, Robert Sloan is getting some social and

1493
01:05:09.599 --> 01:05:10.980
economic commentary in here.

1494
01:05:11.039 --> 01:05:14.340
Yeah, not quite on the same level as Malcolm Hawk, but he is

1495
01:05:14.340 --> 01:05:15.659
really trying to pull his socks up.

1496
01:05:15.719 --> 01:05:20.099
In terms of the pollution, watching that 1st episode, I wonder if

1497
01:05:20.099 --> 01:05:24.000
any viewers at the time, thought that perhaps there was a

1498
01:05:24.000 --> 01:05:29.280
returning monster because early on Professor Jones mentions and

1499
01:05:29.280 --> 01:05:33.300
places great emphasis on, the byproduct must be some sort of

1500
01:05:33.300 --> 01:05:34.320
liquid plastic.

1501
01:05:35.280 --> 01:05:38.760
Right, so you're thinking...

1502
01:05:38.820 --> 01:05:42.480
Yeah, I mean, could it be a deliberate red herring?

1503
01:05:42.599 --> 01:05:47.760
Considering that every story this year has had some kind of

1504
01:05:47.760 --> 01:05:48.360
throwback.

1505
01:05:48.420 --> 01:05:52.559
It's not, of course, and it probably isn't, but it's just a nicer

1506
01:05:52.559 --> 01:05:53.039
throwaway.

1507
01:05:53.099 --> 01:05:55.920
There's some other pollution that's going on in the story and

1508
01:05:55.920 --> 01:06:00.599
Stevens and his heavy, the chauffeur, they're smoking cigars.

1509
01:06:00.659 --> 01:06:03.119
The brigadier, smoking, is on together.

1510
01:06:03.239 --> 01:06:08.460
Well, so there's this character, uh, Professor uh, Mr. Fell, Dr

1511
01:06:08.460 --> 01:06:10.619
Fell, who comes in.

1512
01:06:10.679 --> 01:06:16.619
I think it's like episode 2 and Hinks, who is Steven's driver, is

1513
01:06:16.619 --> 01:06:18.420
sitting on Stephen's desk.

1514
01:06:18.480 --> 01:06:22.860
Yes, it's lighting his cigarette. and that kind of thing. and they

1515
01:06:22.860 --> 01:06:24.480
look really guilty when he walks in.

1516
01:06:24.599 --> 01:06:28.920
Yeah, and what's amazing is Hinks doesn't seem to be hypnotised.

1517
01:06:28.980 --> 01:06:31.559
He doesn't go through anything that the other characters go

1518
01:06:31.559 --> 01:06:33.900
through when they're hypnotised of self-doubt or anything.

1519
01:06:33.960 --> 01:06:36.840
It just like, oh, yeah, you know, I'll go sort him out for you.

1520
01:06:36.900 --> 01:06:37.920
He's just a heavy.

1521
01:06:37.980 --> 01:06:40.079
And I always find that very interesting.

1522
01:06:40.139 --> 01:06:42.780
I think I've commented on that before with some poetly stories.

1523
01:06:42.840 --> 01:06:45.179
You have some characters who are forced and coerced into doing

1524
01:06:45.179 --> 01:06:47.519
evil things, and then you have other characters who are just nasty

1525
01:06:47.519 --> 01:06:47.760
people.

1526
01:06:47.820 --> 01:06:51.480
I really like the fact that the brigadier and Stevens have a

1527
01:06:51.480 --> 01:06:55.139
confrontation in episode 3 and the brigadier, given this backbone

1528
01:06:55.139 --> 01:06:59.639
the characters going through a reformation or a renaissance.

1529
01:06:59.699 --> 01:07:01.679
It's really good to see Nick Gibbon stuff to do.

1530
01:07:01.739 --> 01:07:03.900
And, you know, he has to talk to the PM.

1531
01:07:04.019 --> 01:07:06.539
Yeah, Jeremy, Jeremy.

1532
01:07:06.599 --> 01:07:07.679
Head of the SDP.

1533
01:07:07.739 --> 01:07:08.400
I think...

1534
01:07:08.460 --> 01:07:10.380
And of course, he's back on form by episode four, where he blows

1535
01:07:10.380 --> 01:07:10.860
up the mine.

1536
01:07:10.920 --> 01:07:16.380
Again, I mean, he blows up the mine under orders from Stevens

1537
01:07:16.380 --> 01:07:16.860
doesn't he?

1538
01:07:16.920 --> 01:07:18.420
I mean, Stevens wants it blown up.

1539
01:07:18.480 --> 01:07:20.579
And he has to do what Stephen says.

1540
01:07:20.639 --> 01:07:24.599
So he's in a difficult position because politically he's got to

1541
01:07:24.599 --> 01:07:29.519
support big business because, you know, that's his kind of social

1542
01:07:29.519 --> 01:07:32.699
role here, you know, the government supports big business.

1543
01:07:32.760 --> 01:07:35.639
He's kind of an agent of the government in this case.

1544
01:07:35.760 --> 01:07:38.219
And so he is put in a strange position.

1545
01:07:38.280 --> 01:07:41.519
He's also, we have to assume that he's kind of politically

1546
01:07:41.519 --> 01:07:42.420
conservative.

1547
01:07:42.599 --> 01:07:44.039
Do you know what I mean?

1548
01:07:44.099 --> 01:07:48.599
He's slightly suspicious of all of this, but the way that he

1549
01:07:48.599 --> 01:07:53.820
enjoys his interaction with the people in the nut hutch, the

1550
01:07:53.820 --> 01:07:58.320
constant surprise at the fact that the fungus tastes like actual

1551
01:07:58.320 --> 01:07:58.559
food.

1552
01:07:58.619 --> 01:08:03.659
Yeah, you know, just the warmth and there's there's 2 big parties

1553
01:08:03.659 --> 01:08:06.780
I think, in the story and there's one at the end of episode 3 and

1554
01:08:06.780 --> 01:08:11.039
one at the end of episode 6 and they joke and the brigadier is

1555
01:08:11.039 --> 01:08:14.460
really, feels really welcome and they're drinking and stuff.

1556
01:08:14.519 --> 01:08:20.220
And, you know, like, the world of the nut hatch, like the nut

1557
01:08:20.220 --> 01:08:24.659
hatch is a scientific research base like Dr. Lawrence's base in

1558
01:08:24.659 --> 01:08:27.539
the Silurians or the Inferno project.

1559
01:08:27.600 --> 01:08:29.939
And so is global chemicals.

1560
01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:32.699
You know, it's a research based, they're looking into this way of

1561
01:08:32.699 --> 01:08:33.539
refining oil.

1562
01:08:33.600 --> 01:08:38.460
But one research base is full of people who eat and drink and play

1563
01:08:38.460 --> 01:08:41.399
music and laugh and tell jokes.

1564
01:08:41.460 --> 01:08:44.819
And the other is full of men in suits who are all hypnotised and

1565
01:08:44.819 --> 01:08:46.380
hurling themselves out of windows.

1566
01:08:46.500 --> 01:08:51.899
And like it's not very subtle and stuff, but I like how the

1567
01:08:51.899 --> 01:08:54.899
goodness of those characters is represented by their ability to

1568
01:08:54.899 --> 01:08:57.420
enjoy a well-prepared meal.

1569
01:08:57.479 --> 01:08:58.380
Do you know what I mean?

1570
01:08:58.439 --> 01:08:59.579
I think it's just to.

1571
01:08:59.699 --> 01:09:00.180
Yeah, yeah.

1572
01:09:00.239 --> 01:09:03.060
And you're absolutely right in the way that the brigadier is so

1573
01:09:03.060 --> 01:09:03.840
open-minded with them.

1574
01:09:03.899 --> 01:09:06.180
Like when he finds out what everyone's doing there, he's like

1575
01:09:06.180 --> 01:09:06.479
really?

1576
01:09:06.539 --> 01:09:08.340
She's doing that. doing this.

1577
01:09:08.460 --> 01:09:09.840
Yeah.

1578
01:09:09.899 --> 01:09:13.920
Now, on the other hand, in global chemicals, we do have a

1579
01:09:13.920 --> 01:09:16.199
sympathetic character, Mr. Elgin.

1580
01:09:16.260 --> 01:09:17.340
Yes.

1581
01:09:17.399 --> 01:09:19.140
He's sort of sympathetic.

1582
01:09:19.199 --> 01:09:22.859
He's got a weird moustache and he is kind of annoying.

1583
01:09:22.920 --> 01:09:24.239
He has an annoying demeanour.

1584
01:09:24.300 --> 01:09:25.020
Yeah.

1585
01:09:25.079 --> 01:09:27.479
And apparently on set he was quite annoying as well.

1586
01:09:27.539 --> 01:09:34.199
But what ends up happening is he gets brainwashed in episode four

1587
01:09:34.199 --> 01:09:34.439
I think.

1588
01:09:34.500 --> 01:09:36.239
And then we don't see him again.

1589
01:09:36.239 --> 01:09:38.939
And it's because the actor gets parotonitis and can't come back

1590
01:09:38.939 --> 01:09:39.960
for the last 2 weeks.

1591
01:09:40.020 --> 01:09:46.439
So they have to quickly get Roy Skelton in. and he gets to be the

1592
01:09:46.439 --> 01:09:46.859
same.

1593
01:09:46.920 --> 01:09:49.859
And, you know, like I actually don't mind that it's Roy Skelton

1594
01:09:49.859 --> 01:09:54.060
because that character, the Elgin character is kind of human.

1595
01:09:54.119 --> 01:09:56.520
He's certainly the most human person at working at global

1596
01:09:56.520 --> 01:09:57.300
chemicals.

1597
01:09:57.300 --> 01:10:00.840
And it's, you don't have to be, you know, like a terribly moral

1598
01:10:00.840 --> 01:10:01.260
person.

1599
01:10:01.319 --> 01:10:04.560
You don't have to be Gandhi or Jesus or something to object to

1600
01:10:04.560 --> 01:10:08.579
kind of flushing human beings down a pipe of waste.

1601
01:10:08.760 --> 01:10:10.680
You know, I mean, he's not a moral giant or anything.

1602
01:10:10.739 --> 01:10:14.760
But he does at least react in a sort of horrified human way to

1603
01:10:14.760 --> 01:10:19.500
this and, you know, like he's captured by Stevens when he's about

1604
01:10:19.500 --> 01:10:22.319
to go out and say, you know, he's about to report to the police

1605
01:10:22.319 --> 01:10:25.260
the fact that they're, you know, he's about to leave and tell

1606
01:10:25.260 --> 01:10:28.079
someone what's going on at global chemicals.

1607
01:10:28.140 --> 01:10:31.079
So I wouldn't have really wanted him killed at the end of episode

1608
01:10:31.079 --> 01:10:34.859
five, which is what happens to whatever that character's called.

1609
01:10:34.920 --> 01:10:37.920
The thing is, though, the only conclusion to come to is he's

1610
01:10:37.920 --> 01:10:38.939
killed at the end of episode four.

1611
01:10:39.420 --> 01:10:43.680
No, I like to think he goes for a little lie down somewhere and

1612
01:10:43.680 --> 01:10:44.760
then, oh, yeah.

1613
01:10:44.819 --> 01:10:46.439
He's out in a country house with Dodo.

1614
01:10:46.500 --> 01:10:48.539
He's out of Cachiosa Dodo recovering.

1615
01:10:48.600 --> 01:10:49.319
Yeah.

1616
01:10:49.319 --> 01:10:51.960
Yeah, actually, maybe he's still in his office when the whole

1617
01:10:51.960 --> 01:10:53.760
building...

1618
01:10:53.819 --> 01:10:57.539
In terms of him not being able to perform the rest of the show

1619
01:10:57.539 --> 01:10:59.220
because he had peritonitis.

1620
01:10:59.279 --> 01:11:02.699
The thing about him was he was apparently bugging the rest of the

1621
01:11:02.699 --> 01:11:06.479
cars the whole time expounding on the health benefits of eating

1622
01:11:06.479 --> 01:11:07.380
raw garlic.

1623
01:11:07.439 --> 01:11:10.319
And then he goes and gets sick.

1624
01:11:10.800 --> 01:11:14.760
Well, yes, that's But also serendipity.

1625
01:11:14.819 --> 01:11:16.619
Yeah, that's very...

1626
01:11:16.680 --> 01:11:21.899
But also from a plot point of view, he seems to be Steven's right

1627
01:11:21.899 --> 01:11:24.779
hand man, but he hasn't had any sort of processing at all.

1628
01:11:24.899 --> 01:11:27.060
You know, he's Stephen's right-hand man.

1629
01:11:27.119 --> 01:11:28.920
Surely Stevens would have known, oh, yeah, you know what?

1630
01:11:28.979 --> 01:11:31.199
He's going to start objecting to us doing all these horrible

1631
01:11:31.199 --> 01:11:31.500
things.

1632
01:11:31.619 --> 01:11:34.199
Maybe I should process him now before he becomes a problem.

1633
01:11:34.260 --> 01:11:36.359
The only reason that Mr. Fell.

1634
01:11:36.420 --> 01:11:40.260
Has to throw himself off a building. fell.

1635
01:11:40.319 --> 01:11:41.819
I know that's crazy, isn't it?

1636
01:11:41.880 --> 01:11:42.899
Oh yes.

1637
01:11:42.960 --> 01:11:45.420
So what happened to George or whatever his name was?

1638
01:11:45.479 --> 01:11:46.199
Well, he fell.

1639
01:11:46.260 --> 01:11:49.979
The thing is, though, it was completely coincidental because

1640
01:11:49.979 --> 01:11:53.340
originally he was Mr. Bell, but it turns out there was a Mr. Bell.

1641
01:11:53.399 --> 01:11:56.399
There was one single Mr. Bell, who worked for a chemical company

1642
01:11:56.399 --> 01:11:57.239
so they couldn't use that name.

1643
01:11:57.300 --> 01:11:59.039
So they changed it to fell.

1644
01:11:59.100 --> 01:11:59.340
Anyways.

1645
01:11:59.399 --> 01:12:01.260
They use Mr. Bell in the novelisation, actually.

1646
01:12:01.319 --> 01:12:01.859
Oh there you go.

1647
01:12:01.920 --> 01:12:06.000
Speaking of people, Mr. Fell wouldn't have had to throw himself

1648
01:12:06.000 --> 01:12:09.479
off the balcony, if Elgin hadn't messed with his programming.

1649
01:12:09.539 --> 01:12:12.000
But of course, then the doctor and Joe would be dead.

1650
01:12:12.060 --> 01:12:13.260
So, you know, swings and roundabouts.

1651
01:12:13.560 --> 01:12:17.880
Well, speaking of people working for global chemicals, never so

1652
01:12:17.880 --> 01:12:20.699
too, a character who we haven't seen for a long time is mentioned

1653
01:12:20.699 --> 01:12:26.100
Mike Yates, and of course, he does turn up in episode 4 as the man

1654
01:12:26.100 --> 01:12:30.779
on the inside, in his inevitable James Bond sort of style.

1655
01:12:30.840 --> 01:12:32.279
But do you know what's brilliant about this?

1656
01:12:32.340 --> 01:12:33.300
It's a twist.

1657
01:12:33.359 --> 01:12:37.380
In episode four, over and over again in a per twi story, the man

1658
01:12:37.380 --> 01:12:40.859
from the ministry turns up, we instruct people to blow things up

1659
01:12:40.859 --> 01:12:43.680
and to get shouted at by per twig.

1660
01:12:43.739 --> 01:12:46.680
And that's exactly what happens here, only this time it's mine.

1661
01:12:46.739 --> 01:12:48.000
And he does get shout.

1662
01:12:48.060 --> 01:12:48.300
He does.

1663
01:12:48.359 --> 01:12:51.659
Yeah, perhaps he gets a good old shout in, one like we haven't

1664
01:12:51.659 --> 01:12:52.739
seen since season eight.

1665
01:12:52.739 --> 01:12:54.779
I love it when he goes, hi.

1666
01:12:54.779 --> 01:12:59.159
At Mike, and then Mike does that comedy collapse on the floor.

1667
01:12:59.220 --> 01:13:00.000
Oh my goodness.

1668
01:13:00.119 --> 01:13:02.100
It's very well done, I thought.

1669
01:13:02.159 --> 01:13:03.479
But is it the character doing it?

1670
01:13:03.539 --> 01:13:06.119
because poetry tells him to stop the horseplay and get up.

1671
01:13:06.180 --> 01:13:07.079
He does.

1672
01:13:07.140 --> 01:13:09.779
Yeah, yeah. like so Pertwee thinks that Mike's bunging it on.

1673
01:13:09.840 --> 01:13:11.579
That's not, he's not really fainting.

1674
01:13:11.640 --> 01:13:15.180
And you know, it's just like what happened to Paul Mike, in mind

1675
01:13:15.180 --> 01:13:15.659
of evil.

1676
01:13:15.720 --> 01:13:19.140
He got strapped to a chair and menaced by Rog.

1677
01:13:19.439 --> 01:13:25.020
And Benton finally turns up too in episode 4 as well. on location

1678
01:13:25.020 --> 01:13:29.520
to deal with all of the maggots, you know?

1679
01:13:29.579 --> 01:13:33.239
And can I just say that we've been talking about this story for

1680
01:13:33.239 --> 01:13:38.399
about 3 hours and that's the 1st use of the word magnet, I think.

1681
01:13:38.460 --> 01:13:40.920
And this is the story with the maggots.

1682
01:13:40.979 --> 01:13:42.720
This is the story that everyone remembers.

1683
01:13:42.840 --> 01:13:45.239
Yeah, we just had cakes with maggots.

1684
01:13:45.300 --> 01:13:48.000
I have a life-size maggot here made by friend of the podcast

1685
01:13:48.000 --> 01:13:51.000
Gillian Brent, which has been photographed with Katie Manning.

1686
01:13:51.060 --> 01:13:52.140
Over and over again.

1687
01:13:52.199 --> 01:13:52.619
Yes.

1688
01:13:52.619 --> 01:13:55.680
And they are so extraordinary, aren't they?

1689
01:13:55.739 --> 01:13:57.720
They're really terrifying and it's that scene.

1690
01:13:57.779 --> 01:14:01.500
I think the thing that everyone remembers is, Joe goes down in

1691
01:14:01.500 --> 01:14:04.560
mind with bird at the end of episode one, and then they wander

1692
01:14:04.560 --> 01:14:08.939
together, they're investigating a glowy green man, and so the 1st

1693
01:14:08.939 --> 01:14:12.539
glowy green thing that Bert sees, he puts his hand in, which is

1694
01:14:12.539 --> 01:14:13.739
kind of, well, there you go.

1695
01:14:13.800 --> 01:14:17.579
But then, you know, at the end of the episode, we get that giant

1696
01:14:17.579 --> 01:14:20.760
you know, the doctor and Joe are reunited and it's a giant pool of

1697
01:14:20.760 --> 01:14:24.659
maggots that they have to punt their way through.

1698
01:14:24.720 --> 01:14:27.180
And it's real magots, isn't it?

1699
01:14:27.239 --> 01:14:28.800
There's a shot of real maggots.

1700
01:14:28.859 --> 01:14:29.520
It's really disgusting.

1701
01:14:29.579 --> 01:14:31.560
It really is gross.

1702
01:14:31.619 --> 01:14:34.979
I mean, there's some shots that just don't work like going down

1703
01:14:34.979 --> 01:14:37.920
the mine shaft like on the lift and then as they're punting

1704
01:14:37.920 --> 01:14:39.840
through it, it's pretty ropey when you watch it now.

1705
01:14:39.899 --> 01:14:41.340
Terrible CSO.

1706
01:14:41.340 --> 01:14:42.000
Terrible screens.

1707
01:14:42.060 --> 01:14:42.899
Terrible CSO.

1708
01:14:42.960 --> 01:14:46.140
Yeah, Barry Letts did not like the punting through shot.

1709
01:14:46.199 --> 01:14:47.340
Oh, it's not good at all.

1710
01:14:47.399 --> 01:14:49.140
But it's so memorable though.

1711
01:14:49.199 --> 01:14:50.100
It is.

1712
01:14:50.159 --> 01:14:51.720
And just the maggots moving.

1713
01:14:51.720 --> 01:14:55.920
And, you know, the way they move and whether it's Joe and Cliff

1714
01:14:55.920 --> 01:15:00.239
trapped in the outside little mine thing or whether it's in the

1715
01:15:00.239 --> 01:15:04.020
house where Joe's sort of sitting there by the fire or whatever it

1716
01:15:04.020 --> 01:15:06.600
is and it's moving and you think it's going to get it.

1717
01:15:06.659 --> 01:15:09.779
You remembered this stuff. you know, it's iconic.

1718
01:15:09.840 --> 01:15:11.579
And they have, what do they have?

1719
01:15:11.640 --> 01:15:13.319
Like, are they dog heads or something?

1720
01:15:13.380 --> 01:15:15.960
Like, they've got real animal heads.

1721
01:15:16.020 --> 01:15:16.739
Yeah, yeah.

1722
01:15:16.800 --> 01:15:18.060
I think it was similar to the drash eggs.

1723
01:15:18.180 --> 01:15:18.899
Probably a fox.

1724
01:15:19.260 --> 01:15:22.800
Yeah, yeah, like the skull inside the puppet.

1725
01:15:22.859 --> 01:15:25.979
So the mouth opens and it's got like canine teeth and stuff.

1726
01:15:26.039 --> 01:15:29.220
No maggot wouldn't have that, obviously, but they look really

1727
01:15:29.220 --> 01:15:29.579
good.

1728
01:15:29.640 --> 01:15:30.539
Yeah, yeah.

1729
01:15:30.539 --> 01:15:31.380
The puppets are great.

1730
01:15:31.500 --> 01:15:36.119
And what helps most about it is they went down the road of having

1731
01:15:36.119 --> 01:15:37.020
3 different types.

1732
01:15:37.140 --> 01:15:39.359
They had the static maggots for background shots.

1733
01:15:39.420 --> 01:15:44.220
They have the rod puppets, which they could move, move along on

1734
01:15:44.220 --> 01:15:47.279
the set through holes and covered with gravel.

1735
01:15:47.340 --> 01:15:51.180
And then they had, for close-ups, actual hand operated puppets.

1736
01:15:51.239 --> 01:15:55.380
And they cut between them so well, and especially in episode 6

1737
01:15:55.380 --> 01:15:56.880
when the doctor and Benton.

1738
01:15:56.939 --> 01:15:59.399
Here, little naggot, come and get you dindins.

1739
01:15:59.399 --> 01:16:00.359
Here, kitty, kitty.

1740
01:16:00.420 --> 01:16:01.560
Sergeant Benton now.

1741
01:16:01.619 --> 01:16:04.979
But, you know, when they do that, what they do is they have 2 hand

1742
01:16:04.979 --> 01:16:08.159
puppet ones and they have one on the right of the screen and on

1743
01:16:08.159 --> 01:16:10.920
the left of the screen, but just before that, they've had a shot

1744
01:16:10.920 --> 01:16:12.840
with 2 of the rod puppet ones.

1745
01:16:12.899 --> 01:16:15.420
So when you it just looks like you're cutting to a close-up, it's

1746
01:16:15.420 --> 01:16:18.359
so effectively done, they've really taken the care to try and make

1747
01:16:18.359 --> 01:16:20.399
them look as alive as possible.

1748
01:16:20.460 --> 01:16:24.300
Yes, but what they haven't taken care of is, of course, the actual

1749
01:16:24.300 --> 01:16:30.420
shots of the doctor driving, which are these wonderful model shots

1750
01:16:30.420 --> 01:16:32.880
of a toy car with little toy things.

1751
01:16:32.880 --> 01:16:34.979
I'm nominating this for...

1752
01:16:34.979 --> 01:16:36.119
Now, the Jenny Lad moments.

1753
01:16:36.119 --> 01:16:40.739
And then, yes, then we cut to like Benton and the doctor, you know

1754
01:16:40.739 --> 01:16:44.640
the outside shop, but then they're CSO in the car, like...

1755
01:16:44.640 --> 01:16:45.720
They're CSO all the way through.

1756
01:16:45.779 --> 01:16:48.420
There's these scenes of the brigadier and things standing in front

1757
01:16:48.420 --> 01:16:52.439
of a yellow screen all through episodes 5 and six. which are

1758
01:16:52.439 --> 01:16:52.739
terrible.

1759
01:16:52.800 --> 01:16:56.039
And they were, it's not a matter of, they ran out of time on the

1760
01:16:56.039 --> 01:16:56.279
day.

1761
01:16:56.340 --> 01:16:59.460
They actually had always planned those for CSO because some of the

1762
01:16:59.460 --> 01:17:02.399
1st location work done in that location was the scenic

1763
01:17:02.399 --> 01:17:05.220
photographer taking the photo for the CSO background.

1764
01:17:05.279 --> 01:17:08.399
And I think it was precisely because they had run out of time

1765
01:17:08.399 --> 01:17:11.880
doing location stuff before that they decided, okay, these little

1766
01:17:11.880 --> 01:17:15.060
cutaways, which are only 2 or 3 lines, let's do them with CSO.

1767
01:17:15.119 --> 01:17:16.260
It's a questionable decision.

1768
01:17:16.319 --> 01:17:17.699
It is, but...

1769
01:17:17.699 --> 01:17:19.199
I would say a bad decision.

1770
01:17:19.260 --> 01:17:19.619
Yes.

1771
01:17:19.680 --> 01:17:22.560
One special effect that is very good in this story, Todd.

1772
01:17:22.619 --> 01:17:26.460
Even if the model driving through the quarry isn't.

1773
01:17:26.520 --> 01:17:28.979
We have front axial projection.

1774
01:17:29.039 --> 01:17:32.819
So, Brendan, what is front axial production?

1775
01:17:32.880 --> 01:17:37.619
Well, it's a special paint and inside it, a little tiny glass

1776
01:17:37.619 --> 01:17:38.340
beads.

1777
01:17:38.399 --> 01:17:42.720
Here it's used to represent the green depth spreading across the

1778
01:17:42.720 --> 01:17:43.020
skin.

1779
01:17:43.079 --> 01:17:44.939
So when it's painted on the skin.

1780
01:17:45.000 --> 01:17:49.079
What happens is when you shine a light directly on it, it reflects

1781
01:17:49.079 --> 01:17:51.779
the light as if the light is glowing out of the paint.

1782
01:17:51.840 --> 01:17:55.439
So they shone a green light on it, it turns green.

1783
01:17:55.500 --> 01:17:58.859
Did they actually do it for the end of the metabolus crystal as

1784
01:17:58.859 --> 01:17:59.039
well?

1785
01:17:59.100 --> 01:18:01.500
I actually was wondering whether they did...

1786
01:18:01.560 --> 01:18:02.699
Like blue pulsing light.

1787
01:18:02.880 --> 01:18:05.460
So there is a blue pulsing light that's actually superimposed upon

1788
01:18:05.460 --> 01:18:06.060
the end of that.

1789
01:18:06.119 --> 01:18:08.699
But the end of it also glows as well.

1790
01:18:08.760 --> 01:18:10.199
I don't actually know to be honest with you.

1791
01:18:10.260 --> 01:18:12.300
But it was...

1792
01:18:12.300 --> 01:18:13.079
What were they using it for?

1793
01:18:13.140 --> 01:18:14.279
They were using it for Kronos.

1794
01:18:14.340 --> 01:18:15.180
We did talk about that.

1795
01:18:15.239 --> 01:18:17.039
Yeah, they used they used it for Kronos as well.

1796
01:18:17.100 --> 01:18:19.079
And they will use it again next year.

1797
01:18:19.140 --> 01:18:21.659
Just a little bit of trivia about it.

1798
01:18:21.720 --> 01:18:26.579
The paint itself was developed by the 3M company who now make a

1799
01:18:26.579 --> 01:18:27.779
range of adhesives.

1800
01:18:27.779 --> 01:18:28.739
And post-it notes.

1801
01:18:28.739 --> 01:18:29.880
And post-it notes as well.

1802
01:18:30.000 --> 01:18:34.380
And one of its developers was the exquisitely named Philip the

1803
01:18:34.380 --> 01:18:35.579
Palm Quist.

1804
01:18:35.640 --> 01:18:37.020
Excellent.

1805
01:18:37.020 --> 01:18:42.239
Wow. who actually won an Oscar for it in 1969 for various services

1806
01:18:42.239 --> 01:18:45.420
to film because it was used in such classics as 2001 a Space

1807
01:18:45.420 --> 01:18:45.899
Odyssey.

1808
01:18:45.960 --> 01:18:47.520
That's brilliant.

1809
01:18:47.579 --> 01:18:49.560
That's our best trivia ever.

1810
01:18:49.859 --> 01:18:56.819
Also problematic in the location work for this is this story was

1811
01:18:56.819 --> 01:18:59.159
meant to be another cooperation with the military.

1812
01:18:59.220 --> 01:19:03.779
So just like we had the sea devils and the mind of evil.

1813
01:19:03.840 --> 01:19:07.319
This was going to have cooperation with the Air Force for the air

1814
01:19:07.319 --> 01:19:07.739
strike.

1815
01:19:07.859 --> 01:19:16.020
But since the sea devils, the armed forces had decided to do more

1816
01:19:16.020 --> 01:19:18.899
direct promotion actually advertising, oh, look where the army

1817
01:19:18.899 --> 01:19:21.779
rather than the more subtle promotion of featuring the army, the

1818
01:19:21.779 --> 01:19:25.680
Navy, or the Air Force in television programs, which they had to

1819
01:19:25.680 --> 01:19:26.760
pay for the resources.

1820
01:19:26.819 --> 01:19:28.020
That was sort of the understanding.

1821
01:19:28.079 --> 01:19:33.359
The TV productions didn't pay the armed forces, the armed forces

1822
01:19:33.359 --> 01:19:35.340
paid for their resources, and it was sort of an agreement of will

1823
01:19:35.340 --> 01:19:36.060
cover that cost.

1824
01:19:36.119 --> 01:19:39.359
And yeah, so it was deemed too expensive for the Air Force to do

1825
01:19:39.359 --> 01:19:39.539
that.

1826
01:19:39.600 --> 01:19:43.079
So instead of getting an air strike, we get a helicopter. single

1827
01:19:43.079 --> 01:19:46.680
helicopter, dropping bombs, and exploding maggots, which were made

1828
01:19:46.680 --> 01:19:48.539
of condoms filled with gasoline.

1829
01:19:48.600 --> 01:19:49.319
Terrific.

1830
01:19:49.319 --> 01:19:50.939
And we also get a giant fly.

1831
01:19:51.000 --> 01:19:54.359
I actually really like the giant flying.

1832
01:19:54.420 --> 01:19:55.380
I actually do too.

1833
01:19:55.439 --> 01:19:56.520
Well, then you go.

1834
01:19:56.579 --> 01:19:59.039
I know people going about it, but it's creepy.

1835
01:19:59.100 --> 01:20:00.180
Yeah, yeah.

1836
01:20:00.239 --> 01:20:04.020
And I think at least half of it has to be down to the great sound

1837
01:20:04.020 --> 01:20:04.439
design.

1838
01:20:04.500 --> 01:20:07.859
So, you know, the BBC radiophonic workshop of possibly Dick Mills

1839
01:20:07.859 --> 01:20:14.039
again in this case, creating a really great insect-like sound, but

1840
01:20:14.039 --> 01:20:16.800
magnifying it, just like the beast has been magnified as well.

1841
01:20:16.859 --> 01:20:22.260
Although, as many have pointed out, the eggs that the fly lays

1842
01:20:22.260 --> 01:20:24.359
seem to be bigger than its head.

1843
01:20:24.720 --> 01:20:29.220
Well, there's subsequent instances of that happening in the show

1844
01:20:29.220 --> 01:20:29.699
as well.

1845
01:20:29.760 --> 01:20:33.239
So I think we can probably, we can probably wear that.

1846
01:20:33.300 --> 01:20:35.699
We haven't really talked about boss.

1847
01:20:35.760 --> 01:20:39.359
So after the maggots are dealt with, and the maggots are dealt

1848
01:20:39.359 --> 01:20:39.600
with.

1849
01:20:39.659 --> 01:20:43.260
Again, in this symbolic way where the hippies fungus beats the

1850
01:20:43.260 --> 01:20:44.699
corporations waste.

1851
01:20:44.760 --> 01:20:45.539
You know what I mean?

1852
01:20:45.600 --> 01:20:48.720
The hippie fungus is more powerful than the corporation's waste

1853
01:20:48.720 --> 01:20:52.680
products. you know, sort of very unsubtle sort of symbolic thing.

1854
01:20:52.739 --> 01:20:56.039
And then we've got boss and just in case you weren't getting the

1855
01:20:56.039 --> 01:21:02.100
subtext, you know, the homicidal psychedelic computer that runs

1856
01:21:02.100 --> 01:21:04.140
this entire corporation is called boss.

1857
01:21:04.199 --> 01:21:09.359
And so it sort of stands for the worst kind of um, aspects of sort

1858
01:21:09.359 --> 01:21:11.100
of corporate capitalism, really.

1859
01:21:11.159 --> 01:21:12.119
Do you know what I mean?

1860
01:21:12.180 --> 01:21:14.640
Turning everyone into drones, working for them and all of that.

1861
01:21:14.699 --> 01:21:17.520
So again, it's not particularly subtle, is it?

1862
01:21:17.579 --> 01:21:22.319
But the whole thing has the potential to be slightly tiresome. is

1863
01:21:22.319 --> 01:21:26.520
lifted enormously by John Darth, who is just terrific.

1864
01:21:26.579 --> 01:21:28.500
His voice work on this.

1865
01:21:28.560 --> 01:21:32.399
It could have been really tiresome, but it really does make the

1866
01:21:32.399 --> 01:21:33.960
whole computer come alive, you know.

1867
01:21:34.020 --> 01:21:36.899
When you've got the whole computer around the doctor and it looks

1868
01:21:36.899 --> 01:21:39.479
really dated down with all of its, you know, databanks and schools

1869
01:21:39.479 --> 01:21:40.560
and all that sort of thing.

1870
01:21:40.680 --> 01:21:44.220
But I just love that whole, the big round circle with the voice

1871
01:21:44.220 --> 01:21:45.899
wave thing.

1872
01:21:45.960 --> 01:21:47.760
It really is extremely effective.

1873
01:21:47.819 --> 01:21:48.960
He's funny, isn't he?

1874
01:21:49.020 --> 01:21:49.560
Yeah, yeah.

1875
01:21:49.560 --> 01:21:53.520
And when they, when they shoot the, um, the voice wave monitor

1876
01:21:53.520 --> 01:21:56.939
from the side, they actually distort the wave slightly, so it

1877
01:21:56.939 --> 01:21:58.199
looks like it's bulbous.

1878
01:21:58.260 --> 01:22:01.260
Like it looks like the screen is coming out like an old cathode

1879
01:22:01.260 --> 01:22:01.920
ray screen.

1880
01:22:01.979 --> 01:22:05.699
I mean, John Dirk is so good that when we were watching it, Rod

1881
01:22:05.699 --> 01:22:08.520
was convinced that at the end of episode 6, a wall panel would

1882
01:22:08.520 --> 01:22:11.220
slide open and it would actually be the master, Wizard of Oz style

1883
01:22:11.220 --> 01:22:12.300
talking through the computer.

1884
01:22:12.300 --> 01:22:16.380
And I had to tell him after that that no, Roger Delgado was killed

1885
01:22:16.380 --> 01:22:21.479
shortly after this story was aired. during the airing of this

1886
01:22:21.479 --> 01:22:21.720
story.

1887
01:22:21.779 --> 01:22:24.479
Yeah, but actually, you know, it's kind of like, that would have

1888
01:22:24.479 --> 01:22:24.960
been pretty cool.

1889
01:22:25.020 --> 01:22:29.819
Yeah, price is right style, and you've won me, doctor.

1890
01:22:29.880 --> 01:22:30.300
Yes.

1891
01:22:30.359 --> 01:22:31.800
I am behind boss.

1892
01:22:31.859 --> 01:22:33.119
Oh, Nick.

1893
01:22:33.119 --> 01:22:35.460
Oh, Nick, zing boom.

1894
01:22:35.520 --> 01:22:36.720
It's wonderful, isn't it?

1895
01:22:36.779 --> 01:22:37.439
It's very cool.

1896
01:22:37.500 --> 01:22:38.399
And it's nice out.

1897
01:22:38.460 --> 01:22:40.680
It's all about efficiency and all that sort of thing.

1898
01:22:40.739 --> 01:22:43.500
But like, what's the deal with boss?

1899
01:22:43.560 --> 01:22:45.779
He's sort of flippant and a bit silly and stuff.

1900
01:22:45.840 --> 01:22:46.619
He's learned.

1901
01:22:46.680 --> 01:22:49.380
Yeah, because Stevens has programmed him to be inefficient for the

1902
01:22:49.380 --> 01:22:53.399
sake of efficiency, but he still gets trapped in the sort of

1903
01:22:53.399 --> 01:22:54.779
ancient Greek.

1904
01:22:54.840 --> 01:22:59.159
I'm lying, I'm telling the truth, kind of paradox, which...

1905
01:22:59.159 --> 01:23:00.300
Yeah, that's a bit crummy.

1906
01:23:00.359 --> 01:23:03.420
Yeah, a few years previously, he had also put paid to Harry Mudd's

1907
01:23:03.420 --> 01:23:05.640
Androids in the Star Trek episode, I Mud.

1908
01:23:05.760 --> 01:23:06.840
Oh really?

1909
01:23:06.899 --> 01:23:07.560
Yeah, yeah.

1910
01:23:07.619 --> 01:23:11.159
I like the fact that boss is going to be linked up to 7

1911
01:23:11.159 --> 01:23:12.420
international computers.

1912
01:23:12.479 --> 01:23:14.640
Just like Votam.

1913
01:23:14.699 --> 01:23:17.399
Just like Votan, just like the inter intertubes.

1914
01:23:17.460 --> 01:23:18.000
Yes.

1915
01:23:18.060 --> 01:23:19.020
Yeah, it's amazing.

1916
01:23:19.079 --> 01:23:20.399
Interweb we have these days.

1917
01:23:20.460 --> 01:23:22.140
The electric internet.

1918
01:23:22.199 --> 01:23:24.420
There's some nice stuff that happens in episode five.

1919
01:23:24.479 --> 01:23:27.479
I love the fact that the doctor is giving Mike, the Christopher

1920
01:23:27.479 --> 01:23:32.039
Metabulus to go into Global chemicals.

1921
01:23:32.039 --> 01:23:35.340
Global chemicals to try and unhypnotize people and there's a

1922
01:23:35.340 --> 01:23:37.380
comedy moment where the brigadier is looking at the thing and he

1923
01:23:37.380 --> 01:23:38.939
gets hypnotised.

1924
01:23:39.000 --> 01:23:42.960
Of course, Mike tries too hard as per always when he's in global

1925
01:23:42.960 --> 01:23:44.340
chemicals and buggers it up again.

1926
01:23:44.399 --> 01:23:47.159
And he actually gets the cliffhanger to the end of that episode.

1927
01:23:47.279 --> 01:23:49.260
Yes, it's a Mike Imperil one.

1928
01:23:49.319 --> 01:23:49.800
Yeah.

1929
01:23:49.859 --> 01:23:53.220
So, you know, it's nice to see Mike Yates, you know, actually

1930
01:23:53.220 --> 01:23:54.720
getting some things to do.

1931
01:23:54.779 --> 01:23:58.199
I think, I mean, this is the beginning of a plot for Mike because

1932
01:23:58.199 --> 01:24:02.699
he'll appear twice next year, which actually goes somewhere.

1933
01:24:02.760 --> 01:24:04.920
You know, they weren't really using Mike.

1934
01:24:04.979 --> 01:24:07.560
He didn't turn up in the in the 3 doctors.

1935
01:24:07.619 --> 01:24:10.260
He's only in sort of 3 episodes this year.

1936
01:24:10.319 --> 01:24:14.939
So they do give him something substantial to kind of to move him

1937
01:24:14.939 --> 01:24:17.520
on and make him a little bit more interesting.

1938
01:24:17.579 --> 01:24:19.319
And that'll be quite good next year.

1939
01:24:19.380 --> 01:24:21.239
I think that works right, somebody well.

1940
01:24:21.300 --> 01:24:25.319
Yeah, I do wonder if the reason they did that was that he was

1941
01:24:25.319 --> 01:24:29.220
getting work elsewhere. as we mentioned last podcast, he was

1942
01:24:29.220 --> 01:24:31.979
originally scripted to be in the 3 doctors.

1943
01:24:32.100 --> 01:24:34.020
But he had work elsewhere.

1944
01:24:34.079 --> 01:24:36.659
So I do have to wonder if the production officer said to him, look

1945
01:24:36.659 --> 01:24:41.460
next year we're going to give you sort of a little character plot

1946
01:24:41.460 --> 01:24:42.899
line between a few stories.

1947
01:24:42.960 --> 01:24:45.000
Can you please make sure you're available on these dates?

1948
01:24:45.239 --> 01:24:48.060
And then we'll never trouble you again.

1949
01:24:48.119 --> 01:24:49.260
And then we'll have trouble you again.

1950
01:24:49.319 --> 01:24:53.159
But when Doctor Who actors complain about being underwritten.

1951
01:24:53.220 --> 01:24:56.039
Usually what they're complaining about is a lack of character

1952
01:24:56.039 --> 01:24:56.640
development.

1953
01:24:56.699 --> 01:25:00.000
And, you know, I think that's what any actor wants if they're

1954
01:25:00.000 --> 01:25:00.779
playing a regular character.

1955
01:25:00.840 --> 01:25:04.380
They don't just want to play it like a comic book stereotype and

1956
01:25:04.380 --> 01:25:05.579
be exactly the same all the time.

1957
01:25:05.640 --> 01:25:07.439
They want to make it grow.

1958
01:25:07.500 --> 01:25:11.699
And the companions who look back on their time very fondly and

1959
01:25:11.699 --> 01:25:12.359
talk about it.

1960
01:25:12.420 --> 01:25:14.399
People like Katie Banning.

1961
01:25:14.460 --> 01:25:17.880
People like Sophie Aldred, got character development, whereas

1962
01:25:17.880 --> 01:25:21.119
actors who are promise character development, dingers, such as

1963
01:25:21.119 --> 01:25:25.380
Carol Anne Ford, They're very fond of the people they worked with

1964
01:25:25.380 --> 01:25:28.079
on the show, but they got very frustrated with the creative side

1965
01:25:28.079 --> 01:25:28.439
of it.

1966
01:25:29.039 --> 01:25:31.859
And then you've got John Levine on the other hand, who's just

1967
01:25:31.859 --> 01:25:32.399
happy to be there.

1968
01:25:32.460 --> 01:25:36.359
I suppose that's the other end of the spectrum where John Levine

1969
01:25:36.359 --> 01:25:39.359
had had such a rough life that he was just happy to be a part of a

1970
01:25:39.359 --> 01:25:39.720
family.

1971
01:25:39.779 --> 01:25:41.279
And he said that himself.

1972
01:25:41.340 --> 01:25:43.619
Happy to be out of the yeti costume.

1973
01:25:43.680 --> 01:25:45.300
Happy to be out of the yeti costume.

1974
01:25:45.359 --> 01:25:46.380
Smelled of wee.

1975
01:25:46.439 --> 01:25:53.460
My book's so sad when Joe announces her engagement.

1976
01:25:53.520 --> 01:25:54.479
His reaction in the background.

1977
01:25:54.600 --> 01:25:55.439
He looks crazy.

1978
01:25:55.979 --> 01:26:00.119
It's not legal for him to get married in 1973, you see. so he's a

1979
01:26:00.119 --> 01:26:00.539
bit upset.

1980
01:26:00.600 --> 01:26:01.500
Yeah.

1981
01:26:01.560 --> 01:26:03.060
Corporal Osgood's already waiting for him.

1982
01:26:03.899 --> 01:26:05.819
They'd be great together.

1983
01:26:05.880 --> 01:26:06.600
Yeah.

1984
01:26:06.659 --> 01:26:11.699
Did you did you notice the throwback to the Damons in that scene?

1985
01:26:12.479 --> 01:26:15.000
The brig offers Mike a drink.

1986
01:26:15.180 --> 01:26:19.199
Oh, and then they're going to dance later on in the living room.

1987
01:26:19.319 --> 01:26:21.060
Yeah, they do get a thought that was it.

1988
01:26:21.119 --> 01:26:24.779
Yeah, the brig's like, oh, you know, hard luck, Mark, how about a

1989
01:26:24.779 --> 01:26:25.020
drink?

1990
01:26:25.079 --> 01:26:26.699
Which is very sweet again.

1991
01:26:26.760 --> 01:26:28.920
It sort of builds on that thing we were talking about earlier with

1992
01:26:28.920 --> 01:26:29.579
the time monster.

1993
01:26:30.239 --> 01:26:36.899
We've been to talk about Joe's departure scene and Joe talks about

1994
01:26:36.899 --> 01:26:37.380
her uncle.

1995
01:26:37.439 --> 01:26:40.380
Yes, another call back to the very beginning.

1996
01:26:40.439 --> 01:26:42.180
And that's really nice.

1997
01:26:42.239 --> 01:26:44.100
This is massive though, isn't it?

1998
01:26:44.159 --> 01:26:48.000
I mean, she has been the she's the longest serving companion

1999
01:26:48.000 --> 01:26:48.420
ever.

2000
01:26:48.479 --> 01:26:49.739
She's done 3 years.

2001
01:26:49.800 --> 01:26:53.039
Maybe Jamie does more episodes than her.

2002
01:26:53.100 --> 01:26:54.840
Maybe she's the 2nd longest.

2003
01:26:54.899 --> 01:26:56.819
Does she beat Jamie in time?

2004
01:26:56.880 --> 01:27:00.119
Yes, because, well, I mean, if you think about it doing a full

2005
01:27:00.119 --> 01:27:00.479
season.

2006
01:27:01.199 --> 01:27:03.300
She does 3 full seasons.

2007
01:27:03.359 --> 01:27:07.079
Jamie nearly does 3 full seasons and they were 40 something

2008
01:27:07.079 --> 01:27:08.039
episode seasons.

2009
01:27:08.100 --> 01:27:11.039
The other thing to consider, though, is Joe is the solo

2010
01:27:11.039 --> 01:27:11.520
companion.

2011
01:27:11.579 --> 01:27:12.000
Yeah.

2012
01:27:12.000 --> 01:27:15.239
Whereas, whereas Jamie was with Victoria and then Zoe.

2013
01:27:15.300 --> 01:27:19.380
But she also, I mean, she really creates the single female

2014
01:27:19.380 --> 01:27:22.800
companion role and she's spectacular at it.

2015
01:27:22.859 --> 01:27:26.340
You know, she really, really is, she's funny, she's super

2016
01:27:26.340 --> 01:27:27.060
competent.

2017
01:27:27.119 --> 01:27:28.500
She's terribly smart.

2018
01:27:28.560 --> 01:27:31.619
She knows what a controlled, super lucent emission is.

2019
01:27:31.680 --> 01:27:34.680
You know, she's she's funny to watch.

2020
01:27:34.739 --> 01:27:37.020
She humanises pertly.

2021
01:27:37.079 --> 01:27:38.819
She's just been extraordinarily.

2022
01:27:38.880 --> 01:27:42.600
She's been at it for, you know, nearly as long as Trout and, you

2023
01:27:42.600 --> 01:27:45.000
know, like it's, it's really something this is absolutely

2024
01:27:45.000 --> 01:27:46.079
monumental.

2025
01:27:46.140 --> 01:27:51.239
And we complained over and over again about these characters being

2026
01:27:51.239 --> 01:27:53.159
thrown away in the 60s.

2027
01:27:53.220 --> 01:27:55.800
But this is lovely, isn't it?

2028
01:27:55.859 --> 01:27:58.920
It's set up right from episode one and that scene.

2029
01:27:59.039 --> 01:28:01.079
They almost kiss.

2030
01:28:01.140 --> 01:28:03.359
They almost kissed 22 episodes earlier.

2031
01:28:03.420 --> 01:28:07.319
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. and the doctor walks in and and

2032
01:28:07.319 --> 01:28:09.600
deliberately drags him away like, nope, that's not happening.

2033
01:28:09.659 --> 01:28:12.600
But yeah, you're not at the end, you went at the end and then it's

2034
01:28:12.600 --> 01:28:15.119
like, you know, we're going to go to the Amazon and do all this

2035
01:28:15.119 --> 01:28:17.939
and, oh, we're going to get married too, because you can't have an

2036
01:28:17.939 --> 01:28:20.039
unmarried couple in 1973.

2037
01:28:20.159 --> 01:28:20.520
Yes.

2038
01:28:20.579 --> 01:28:23.520
Well, stop off at Cardiff, get some supplies, get married, and

2039
01:28:23.520 --> 01:28:25.260
then sort of head off, but they kiss at the end.

2040
01:28:25.319 --> 01:28:27.180
It's so nice.

2041
01:28:27.239 --> 01:28:31.020
And not only that, I've said it before, but Michael Lee Bryant's

2042
01:28:31.020 --> 01:28:31.739
such a clever director.

2043
01:28:31.800 --> 01:28:35.640
In the 1st episode, when the doctor's standing by the TARDIS and

2044
01:28:35.640 --> 01:28:38.640
Joe's going to leave, she hugs him, the doctor's on the left of

2045
01:28:38.640 --> 01:28:40.020
the screen, Joe's on the right of the screen.

2046
01:28:40.079 --> 01:28:44.699
In episode 6 at the end, the doctor's standing by the door.

2047
01:28:44.760 --> 01:28:46.680
He's on the right of the screen, Joe's on the left.

2048
01:28:46.739 --> 01:28:48.779
She hugs him and he walks out.

2049
01:28:49.560 --> 01:28:54.720
And last night I watched episode 6 on the special edition DVD

2050
01:28:54.720 --> 01:28:57.659
there's a commentary from Katie Manning and Russell T. Davis.

2051
01:28:57.720 --> 01:29:01.500
And it's great because for the 1st 2 minutes, Russell T. Davis is

2052
01:29:01.500 --> 01:29:02.819
saying, I don't even know what I'm doing here.

2053
01:29:03.000 --> 01:29:05.039
You know, you were in this.

2054
01:29:05.100 --> 01:29:05.699
I wasn't.

2055
01:29:05.760 --> 01:29:09.180
But they both start crying in that last scene.

2056
01:29:09.239 --> 01:29:12.359
Like, you know, not crying buckets, but their voices are both

2057
01:29:12.359 --> 01:29:15.720
breaking and like, It's a beautiful shot of her looking over her

2058
01:29:15.720 --> 01:29:16.079
shoulder.

2059
01:29:16.140 --> 01:29:16.859
Yeah.

2060
01:29:16.920 --> 01:29:18.960
Yes, that's nice, isn't it?

2061
01:29:19.020 --> 01:29:24.720
And it is a contrast to how oblivious she was in episode one too.

2062
01:29:24.779 --> 01:29:26.279
She didn't know she was saving.

2063
01:29:26.340 --> 01:29:27.420
Now she knows she's leaving.

2064
01:29:27.479 --> 01:29:31.319
She will miss the doctor, but she thinks, you know, she's made the

2065
01:29:31.319 --> 01:29:31.859
right decision.

2066
01:29:31.920 --> 01:29:36.300
Sorry, Russell comments on that action as well because he says, you

2067
01:29:36.300 --> 01:29:39.420
turn to watch the doctor go, but you touch Cliff's arm.

2068
01:29:39.479 --> 01:29:44.039
And he said, if you had just turned to watch Dr. go and not reach

2069
01:29:44.039 --> 01:29:47.340
out for Cliff, it would have been Joe realising she's made the

2070
01:29:47.340 --> 01:29:47.880
wrong decision.

2071
01:29:47.939 --> 01:29:49.800
You touch Cliff, you know it's the right decision.

2072
01:29:49.800 --> 01:29:52.140
And Katie says, well, it is the right decision. have to grow up.

2073
01:29:52.199 --> 01:29:53.220
Yeah.

2074
01:29:53.220 --> 01:29:54.300
And that's it too.

2075
01:29:54.359 --> 01:29:58.800
It is growing up that she's moving out of sort of silly science

2076
01:29:58.800 --> 01:30:02.399
fiction adventures and actually going off to make the world a

2077
01:30:02.399 --> 01:30:03.060
better place.

2078
01:30:03.119 --> 01:30:05.100
It's really just, it's lovely.

2079
01:30:05.159 --> 01:30:08.819
I'm not afraid to admit that I shed a manly tear when I was

2080
01:30:08.819 --> 01:30:09.899
watching it last night as well.

2081
01:30:09.960 --> 01:30:13.020
I mean, God, I usually shed a tear in episode one when she

2082
01:30:13.020 --> 01:30:13.380
leaves.

2083
01:30:13.439 --> 01:30:15.119
Because as I say, that's when she leaves.

2084
01:30:15.180 --> 01:30:15.539
Yeah.

2085
01:30:15.539 --> 01:30:23.159
And then you've got, you cut to the doctor in, and that long shot

2086
01:30:23.159 --> 01:30:26.039
with the, is it the sun fading or the sun?

2087
01:30:26.039 --> 01:30:26.699
Yeah, sunset.

2088
01:30:26.760 --> 01:30:27.180
Oh yeah.

2089
01:30:27.239 --> 01:30:29.880
There's a long scene before that where he's walking through a

2090
01:30:29.880 --> 01:30:32.699
bunch of animals though, which I think probably...

2091
01:30:32.699 --> 01:30:33.479
Oh, up to the car.

2092
01:30:33.539 --> 01:30:34.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2093
01:30:34.800 --> 01:30:37.020
There's a lot of lot of farm animals in that story.

2094
01:30:37.560 --> 01:30:40.739
I think that that might undermine some of the emotional impact.

2095
01:30:40.800 --> 01:30:43.560
I don't think it undermines it at all because it emphasises his

2096
01:30:43.560 --> 01:30:46.079
strangeness in a situation of ordinariness.

2097
01:30:46.140 --> 01:30:49.920
And it's because of his strangeness that he walks away.

2098
01:30:49.979 --> 01:30:52.500
You know, he's not going to stay for the party and say goodbye to

2099
01:30:52.500 --> 01:30:57.239
Joe because he can't because he's already at his threshold for

2100
01:30:57.239 --> 01:30:57.779
emotion.

2101
01:30:57.840 --> 01:30:58.500
Yeah.

2102
01:30:58.500 --> 01:30:59.100
You know.

2103
01:30:59.159 --> 01:31:01.199
The doctor doesn't say goodbye.

2104
01:31:01.260 --> 01:31:04.199
It's something that the new series comments on overtly, especially

2105
01:31:04.199 --> 01:31:08.340
when spoiler alert, everyone, Katie comes back to play Joe in

2106
01:31:08.340 --> 01:31:10.560
Sarah Jane Adventure's death of the doctor.

2107
01:31:10.619 --> 01:31:13.800
And she comments, you know, you never said goodbye and you never

2108
01:31:13.800 --> 01:31:14.220
came back.

2109
01:31:14.279 --> 01:31:17.039
It emphasises his distance from that.

2110
01:31:17.100 --> 01:31:22.920
And that shot of him driving along the horizon, the horizons

2111
01:31:22.920 --> 01:31:27.479
directly in the middle against the settings on because the day of

2112
01:31:27.479 --> 01:31:29.100
them together is ending.

2113
01:31:29.340 --> 01:31:31.979
And I like the sting actually comes in.

2114
01:31:32.100 --> 01:31:33.720
Yeah, it fades.

2115
01:31:33.779 --> 01:31:34.680
It fades in rum.

2116
01:31:34.739 --> 01:31:37.619
But then you almost have this wonderful Jenny Laird moment where

2117
01:31:37.619 --> 01:31:40.439
you actually get the end credits coming in upside down.

2118
01:31:40.439 --> 01:31:42.119
For the last time.

2119
01:31:42.119 --> 01:31:44.340
And it happens 3 times in this story.

2120
01:31:44.399 --> 01:31:47.039
So apparently what happens is they don't have time to rewind the

2121
01:31:47.039 --> 01:31:49.140
tape during, while they're putting the whole thing together.

2122
01:31:49.199 --> 01:31:52.319
And so they just play it backwards, which results in the film

2123
01:31:52.319 --> 01:31:53.220
being upside down.

2124
01:31:53.279 --> 01:31:57.420
So the very last time we have those closing credits, they're

2125
01:31:57.420 --> 01:31:58.199
upside down.

2126
01:31:58.260 --> 01:32:00.000
So until next year we'll get a new one.

2127
01:32:00.060 --> 01:32:01.979
And you realise what this means for me.

2128
01:32:02.579 --> 01:32:04.859
Next month we get a new logo.

2129
01:32:04.920 --> 01:32:06.539
Ooh, terrific. wait.

2130
01:32:06.600 --> 01:32:08.699
You have to do the diamond logo.

2131
01:32:08.760 --> 01:32:12.659
A couple of podcasts ago, I promised a new trope, which I had

2132
01:32:12.659 --> 01:32:16.260
discovered as the podcast resident tropologist.

2133
01:32:16.260 --> 01:32:20.760
And what I've discovered is a trope called the exposition coma.

2134
01:32:20.819 --> 01:32:25.920
And the exposition coma is very much in evidence here.

2135
01:32:25.979 --> 01:32:30.000
Cliff gets infected by the maggots and spends an episode sort of

2136
01:32:30.000 --> 01:32:32.880
lying in bed and thrashing around like you do.

2137
01:32:32.939 --> 01:32:37.680
But he does deliver important exposition during that coma, in

2138
01:32:37.680 --> 01:32:40.560
where he says the word serendipity, and then they all have to work

2139
01:32:40.560 --> 01:32:41.220
out what he means.

2140
01:32:41.279 --> 01:32:44.880
But it turns out that there are exposition comas all the way

2141
01:32:44.880 --> 01:32:48.720
through, Doctor Who, starting with um per twee, talking about

2142
01:32:48.720 --> 01:32:51.239
number 2 output pipe in Inferno.

2143
01:32:51.840 --> 01:32:58.260
Filer, Bill Filer, talking about Axons, Must not distribute Axon.

2144
01:32:58.260 --> 01:32:59.699
Must not distribute Axon.

2145
01:32:59.760 --> 01:33:01.380
Because it's Bill Filer, nobody listens anyway.

2146
01:33:01.439 --> 01:33:03.720
No, well, there's no one else in the room, even.

2147
01:33:03.779 --> 01:33:07.260
Stuart gets an exposition coma in the time monster where he talks

2148
01:33:07.260 --> 01:33:09.000
about how dangerous Chronos is.

2149
01:33:09.060 --> 01:33:13.199
And there doesn't seem to be a page for this on TV trope.

2150
01:33:13.260 --> 01:33:18.899
So I'd like to think that I've discovered the exposition coma.

2151
01:33:18.960 --> 01:33:20.819
So that's a term of art now that I've invented.

2152
01:33:20.819 --> 01:33:23.159
Exposition coma.

2153
01:33:23.220 --> 01:33:26.039
Yeah, I'd like to call it Nathan's exposition coma, actually.

2154
01:33:26.100 --> 01:33:28.020
But the exposition coma will do.

2155
01:33:28.079 --> 01:33:30.479
You don't have to mention me every time you talk about it.

2156
01:33:30.539 --> 01:33:32.100
You can live with me.

2157
01:33:32.159 --> 01:33:34.680
The NEC, dear listener.

2158
01:33:34.739 --> 01:33:38.279
And I've just realised we haven't done Walsh watch for this

2159
01:33:38.279 --> 01:33:38.579
season.

2160
01:33:38.640 --> 01:33:41.100
Now there's 2 prime examples.

2161
01:33:41.159 --> 01:33:43.979
There may be more in other stories, but I couldn't see them as we

2162
01:33:43.979 --> 01:33:44.520
were going through.

2163
01:33:44.579 --> 01:33:48.000
So I'm going to start off, 1st of all, the 3 doctors.

2164
01:33:48.060 --> 01:33:51.600
The aforementioned wrestling scene with Pertwee, where Pertwee

2165
01:33:51.600 --> 01:33:53.340
goes to his back, bad idea.

2166
01:33:53.399 --> 01:33:56.939
That was Terry Walsh, for the most part, playing Pertwee.

2167
01:33:57.000 --> 01:34:00.420
You can tell when the hair colour changes from white to gray.

2168
01:34:00.479 --> 01:34:02.220
That wig is so bad.

2169
01:34:02.279 --> 01:34:03.420
I agree.

2170
01:34:03.479 --> 01:34:04.439
What are they thinking of?

2171
01:34:04.500 --> 01:34:07.020
It's just, it looks like a scrubbing brush.

2172
01:34:07.079 --> 01:34:10.739
And as per twee's hair has got more and more bouffant over the

2173
01:34:10.739 --> 01:34:14.039
years, they've chosen not to revise the Walsh wig.

2174
01:34:14.100 --> 01:34:15.899
And so it is.

2175
01:34:15.960 --> 01:34:19.140
He straps on his fighting wig whenever he has to like wrestle.

2176
01:34:19.199 --> 01:34:23.100
But at the moment, they're still they're still making an effort to

2177
01:34:23.100 --> 01:34:25.619
cut between all the sequences, so they try and mask it as much as

2178
01:34:25.619 --> 01:34:25.859
possible.

2179
01:34:25.920 --> 01:34:28.020
Yeah, it's really just the wig that spoils it.

2180
01:34:28.079 --> 01:34:29.520
Next year you'll see his face.

2181
01:34:29.579 --> 01:34:30.359
Next year?

2182
01:34:30.420 --> 01:34:31.260
Not so much.

2183
01:34:31.319 --> 01:34:35.100
And thankfully when Tom comes on board, spoiler alert, Terry Walsh

2184
01:34:35.100 --> 01:34:36.000
gets a much better wig.

2185
01:34:36.539 --> 01:34:38.760
But he can't keep the same one.

2186
01:34:38.819 --> 01:34:42.779
I'd be surprised if they didn't attempt it, actually, given the

2187
01:34:42.779 --> 01:34:44.460
per tweeting. really is so bad.

2188
01:34:44.520 --> 01:34:47.159
And then in the green death.

2189
01:34:47.220 --> 01:34:49.619
Terry Walsh gets to pull triple duty.

2190
01:34:49.680 --> 01:34:52.560
So 1st of all, he's John Poey, stunt double in that wonderful

2191
01:34:52.560 --> 01:34:56.520
fight in episode two, gentlemen, Venusia Nikito.

2192
01:34:56.579 --> 01:35:01.140
I do hope I haven't harmed you, which is a class line, but again

2193
01:35:01.140 --> 01:35:04.319
we can tell who it is by the colour of the hair, and we do get a

2194
01:35:04.319 --> 01:35:07.199
brief, brief glimpse at Terry Walsh's face.

2195
01:35:07.260 --> 01:35:08.939
Terry Walsh also gets a speaking part.

2196
01:35:08.939 --> 01:35:11.760
It's quite a big speaking part. quite a big speaking part.

2197
01:35:11.819 --> 01:35:14.220
And he gets to argue with the doctor in episode six.

2198
01:35:14.279 --> 01:35:18.479
And then he gets kind of possessed or whatever and collapses.

2199
01:35:18.539 --> 01:35:21.420
And then the doctor saves his life because he drags him away

2200
01:35:21.420 --> 01:35:23.220
behind Bessie for the explosion.

2201
01:35:23.279 --> 01:35:26.399
Speaking of Bessie, she's got a new engine in this, so you'll

2202
01:35:26.399 --> 01:35:28.859
notice her bonnet is noticeably longer than it was in the 3

2203
01:35:28.859 --> 01:35:29.340
doctors.

2204
01:35:29.399 --> 01:35:29.939
Look out for that.

2205
01:35:30.000 --> 01:35:32.760
I love him when he talks about cars.

2206
01:35:32.819 --> 01:35:37.260
And the other part that Terry Walsh got to play in this was

2207
01:35:37.260 --> 01:35:39.359
actually the stunt double for Richard Franklin when he jumps off

2208
01:35:39.359 --> 01:35:39.720
the roof.

2209
01:35:39.960 --> 01:35:43.380
I was wondering about that because there is a really suspicious

2210
01:35:43.380 --> 01:35:43.920
cart.

2211
01:35:43.979 --> 01:35:45.000
And there is a big jump.

2212
01:35:45.060 --> 01:35:48.899
Like he actually jumps out the window onto a big awning thing. and

2213
01:35:48.899 --> 01:35:49.619
you actually see that.

2214
01:35:49.680 --> 01:35:51.899
And then he jumps to the ground, but there's a cut there.

2215
01:35:51.960 --> 01:35:53.100
So that's obviously not here.

2216
01:35:53.159 --> 01:35:54.239
But it's very well.

2217
01:35:54.300 --> 01:35:55.199
It's very well edited.

2218
01:35:55.260 --> 01:35:58.260
Richard Franklin matches the action of Terry Walsh.

2219
01:35:58.319 --> 01:36:00.899
And considering that it would have just been Richard Franklin

2220
01:36:00.899 --> 01:36:03.479
watching the action and then jumping in, not reviewing the

2221
01:36:03.479 --> 01:36:03.720
footage.

2222
01:36:03.840 --> 01:36:04.800
It's really well done.

2223
01:36:04.859 --> 01:36:07.739
But I think that is Walsh watch for this month.

2224
01:36:07.800 --> 01:36:13.140
Dear listener, if you've seen Terry Walsh in Carnival of Monsters

2225
01:36:13.140 --> 01:36:14.579
or Frontier in Space.

2226
01:36:14.640 --> 01:36:16.380
Or just when you've gone down the shops?

2227
01:36:16.500 --> 01:36:17.220
Oh, indeed.

2228
01:36:17.220 --> 01:36:20.699
Or, you know, like the cinema or something, if he's been dining

2229
01:36:20.699 --> 01:36:22.560
out at a restaurant, just let us know.

2230
01:36:22.619 --> 01:36:26.699
Yeah, I do recall a rather fun story of someone who lived in

2231
01:36:26.699 --> 01:36:31.199
Whitstable when Peter Cushing lived there and he had a punk band

2232
01:36:31.199 --> 01:36:33.899
so he wrote a song which went, Peter Cushing lives in Wisstable.

2233
01:36:33.960 --> 01:36:35.159
I have seen him on his bicycle.

2234
01:36:35.220 --> 01:36:36.539
I have seen him buying vegetables.

2235
01:36:36.600 --> 01:36:37.979
Peter Cushing lives in Winstable.

2236
01:36:38.039 --> 01:36:39.300
That's genius.

2237
01:36:40.380 --> 01:36:45.359
Speaking of genius, we now have the Jenny Laird awards and Todd

2238
01:36:45.359 --> 01:36:47.819
from your myriad nominations, you're going to have to choose one

2239
01:36:47.819 --> 01:36:49.260
Jenny Laird award for this year.

2240
01:36:49.319 --> 01:36:50.880
It's tough.

2241
01:36:50.939 --> 01:36:51.840
It really is.

2242
01:36:51.899 --> 01:36:55.920
I'm going to go with the end of Frontier in Space.

2243
01:36:55.979 --> 01:36:57.359
I just think it's unforgivable.

2244
01:36:57.420 --> 01:36:58.260
Nathan?

2245
01:36:58.319 --> 01:37:00.720
Well, I'm going to go with the scrotoid, actually.

2246
01:37:00.779 --> 01:37:03.479
I just sort of think the scrotoid from Frontier in Space, which is

2247
01:37:03.479 --> 01:37:06.000
a related puzzling creative choice.

2248
01:37:06.060 --> 01:37:09.600
When they had the opportunity to create giant lizards.

2249
01:37:09.659 --> 01:37:13.439
And when they knew how competent the production team were at the

2250
01:37:13.439 --> 01:37:14.819
creation of giant lizards.

2251
01:37:14.880 --> 01:37:20.340
Why would they not get, say, a puppeteer in and realise a giant

2252
01:37:20.340 --> 01:37:21.000
lizard?

2253
01:37:21.060 --> 01:37:22.680
That's got to have worked well?

2254
01:37:22.739 --> 01:37:25.920
Certainly better than the scrotoid slug monster did.

2255
01:37:25.979 --> 01:37:28.859
I think we'll see them take up your advice very soon.

2256
01:37:28.920 --> 01:37:30.420
Excellent. can't wait.

2257
01:37:30.479 --> 01:37:34.140
I think my Jenny later award for puzzling creative choice has to

2258
01:37:34.140 --> 01:37:37.619
be the Styrofoam mountains of the planet Spiritum.

2259
01:37:37.680 --> 01:37:41.819
Yes, that giant rock that falls on Katie's head.

2260
01:37:41.880 --> 01:37:44.819
I'm still like wincing, just seeing it.

2261
01:37:44.880 --> 01:37:48.539
We have come to the conclusion that the 3rd doctor just pronounces

2262
01:37:48.539 --> 01:37:49.260
everything wrong.

2263
01:37:49.319 --> 01:37:52.260
So it's actually spirit and not spiradon.

2264
01:37:52.319 --> 01:37:56.039
It's metabolis, not metabolis, and it certainly kittenous rather

2265
01:37:56.039 --> 01:37:56.819
than chipness.

2266
01:37:56.880 --> 01:37:58.260
Yeah, he says chitness.

2267
01:37:58.319 --> 01:37:58.680
That's right.

2268
01:37:58.739 --> 01:37:59.880
I think it's chitinus.

2269
01:38:00.060 --> 01:38:02.939
Titanus. yeah So, you see, it's infecting an E now.

2270
01:38:03.000 --> 01:38:05.159
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2271
01:38:05.220 --> 01:38:07.020
Gentlemen, recommendations for this season.

2272
01:38:07.079 --> 01:38:07.920
What should people check out?

2273
01:38:07.979 --> 01:38:11.399
I think they should check out the Sarah Jane Adventures, Death of

2274
01:38:11.399 --> 01:38:15.300
the Doctor, with the return of Katie Manning as Joe Jones.

2275
01:38:15.359 --> 01:38:21.479
Wonderful performance, and it's a delight to see her with Liz and

2276
01:38:21.479 --> 01:38:24.539
with Matt, and I just can't recommend it enough.

2277
01:38:24.600 --> 01:38:28.260
The character development is so great too, because Russell gets

2278
01:38:28.260 --> 01:38:30.600
exactly why she left the doctor.

2279
01:38:30.659 --> 01:38:32.220
She left the doctor to become an activist.

2280
01:38:32.279 --> 01:38:35.460
So rather than becoming a housewife or contracting syphilis or

2281
01:38:35.460 --> 01:38:39.659
something, you know, she she is a fantastic, wonderful activist

2282
01:38:39.659 --> 01:38:43.140
who still loves her husband, who has lots of children and

2283
01:38:43.140 --> 01:38:44.520
grandchildren, whom she loves.

2284
01:38:44.579 --> 01:38:48.539
She's a dotty, crazy old lady, which is that persona that Katie

2285
01:38:48.539 --> 01:38:49.739
projects as well.

2286
01:38:49.800 --> 01:38:54.180
You know, Russell writes for Katie now and writes with a real

2287
01:38:54.180 --> 01:38:57.119
knowledge and a real love of the character of Joe and it's

2288
01:38:57.119 --> 01:39:01.500
spectacular and the scenes of Joe and Sarah together are just

2289
01:39:01.500 --> 01:39:02.039
wonderful.

2290
01:39:02.100 --> 01:39:04.260
It's terrific. you know, if you hadn't seen it.

2291
01:39:04.319 --> 01:39:05.760
Make sure you check it out.

2292
01:39:05.819 --> 01:39:09.420
And incidentally, dear listener, if you can't track down Sarah

2293
01:39:09.420 --> 01:39:14.340
Jane Adventures series 4 on DVD or Blu-ray, that two-part Sarah

2294
01:39:14.340 --> 01:39:16.800
Jane Adventure story is included on the Green Death Special

2295
01:39:16.800 --> 01:39:17.579
Edition DVD.

2296
01:39:17.640 --> 01:39:19.739
Oh, it's an extra. that's right Really?

2297
01:39:19.800 --> 01:39:20.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2298
01:39:20.399 --> 01:39:20.939
I think I knew that.

2299
01:39:21.000 --> 01:39:21.420
Okay.

2300
01:39:21.479 --> 01:39:22.859
Brendan?

2301
01:39:22.979 --> 01:39:27.420
My recommendation, of course, it has to be Katie Manning related

2302
01:39:27.420 --> 01:39:31.859
is for the Big Finnish Companion Chronicle Find and Replace, which

2303
01:39:31.859 --> 01:39:37.140
is set, again, about 20 years after Joe leaves the doctor.

2304
01:39:37.199 --> 01:39:38.699
She is now Joe Jones.

2305
01:39:38.699 --> 01:39:42.779
However, someone is stalking her based on her life with the

2306
01:39:42.779 --> 01:39:43.020
doctor.

2307
01:39:43.079 --> 01:39:45.180
Now, like all companion chronicles.

2308
01:39:45.239 --> 01:39:48.840
It's a 2 hander with Katie and one other actor, but that doesn't

2309
01:39:48.840 --> 01:39:50.520
mean it's limited to 2 characters.

2310
01:39:50.640 --> 01:39:54.359
Indeed, Katie is not limited to 2 characters within it as another

2311
01:39:54.359 --> 01:39:56.699
character made famous by Katie appears.

2312
01:39:56.760 --> 01:39:59.760
We have Jo Jones meets Iris Wild Time.

2313
01:39:59.819 --> 01:40:02.220
I've listened to this wonderful.

2314
01:40:02.279 --> 01:40:03.060
Isn't it wonderful?

2315
01:40:03.119 --> 01:40:04.380
Oh, I highly recommended.

2316
01:40:04.439 --> 01:40:05.039
You know what?

2317
01:40:05.100 --> 01:40:08.579
It's just a testament to Katie and the scriptwriter because it is

2318
01:40:08.579 --> 01:40:14.399
funny and scary and heartwarming and heartbreaking all at once.

2319
01:40:14.460 --> 01:40:15.840
I'm not going to say anything more about it.

2320
01:40:15.899 --> 01:40:17.699
Go download it.

2321
01:40:17.760 --> 01:40:20.760
I think if you're in Australia, it's about $10 to download one of

2322
01:40:20.760 --> 01:40:21.180
those.

2323
01:40:21.239 --> 01:40:22.739
It is well worth the hour of your time.

2324
01:40:22.800 --> 01:40:23.760
It's very clever.

2325
01:40:23.819 --> 01:40:24.479
It's very clever.

2326
01:40:24.600 --> 01:40:25.739
Nathan.

2327
01:40:25.800 --> 01:40:27.899
Okay, so my pick of the week.

2328
01:40:27.960 --> 01:40:31.380
I had three, but Todd fortunately chose one of them.

2329
01:40:31.439 --> 01:40:33.359
I think that that's an absolute mask.

2330
01:40:33.420 --> 01:40:37.439
I have mentioned listening to Margasis Reed, Planet of the

2331
01:40:37.439 --> 01:40:37.979
Daleks.

2332
01:40:38.039 --> 01:40:42.119
We've mentioned Russell T. Davis a couple of times this episode

2333
01:40:42.119 --> 01:40:45.359
and I want to recommend that people watch cucumber, banana, and

2334
01:40:45.359 --> 01:40:49.020
tofu because essentially no one I know has watched them.

2335
01:40:49.140 --> 01:40:51.899
I have no one to talk to about them.

2336
01:40:52.020 --> 01:40:54.539
And I think they're really really extraordinary.

2337
01:40:54.600 --> 01:40:58.319
So Russell has learned from his time on Doctor Who, that you can

2338
01:40:58.319 --> 01:41:02.159
create a TV event by releasing a bunch of linked TV shows.

2339
01:41:02.220 --> 01:41:03.000
Do you know what I mean?

2340
01:41:03.060 --> 01:41:06.479
Like the way he had Doctor Who and Torchwood and Sarah Jane and

2341
01:41:06.479 --> 01:41:08.039
Confidential and stuff all at once.

2342
01:41:08.100 --> 01:41:11.460
So he created a really big TV event here.

2343
01:41:11.520 --> 01:41:15.180
So there's 8 episodes of cucumber, which is sort of 45 minutes

2344
01:41:15.180 --> 01:41:19.560
long, and it tells a connected story about a 46 year old gay man

2345
01:41:19.560 --> 01:41:24.420
who lives in Manchester, you know, like a kind of sequel to queer

2346
01:41:24.420 --> 01:41:25.020
as folk.

2347
01:41:25.079 --> 01:41:28.560
And then immediately after that, you switch to the other sort of

2348
01:41:28.560 --> 01:41:33.720
channel 4 channel for a 25 minute sort of short story called

2349
01:41:33.720 --> 01:41:37.380
Banana, which was like an anthology show that dealt with like one

2350
01:41:37.380 --> 01:41:40.619
of the individual characters from the episode that you just

2351
01:41:40.619 --> 01:41:41.819
watched.

2352
01:41:41.880 --> 01:41:45.239
And then there was a 3rd thing called tofu, which was a sort of

2353
01:41:45.239 --> 01:41:48.359
interview show about sort of sex and sexuality and stuff.

2354
01:41:48.420 --> 01:41:50.460
It's not suitable for children.

2355
01:41:50.520 --> 01:41:52.319
It's proper grown up drama.

2356
01:41:52.380 --> 01:41:56.819
There are no robots in it, but it is some of Russell T. Davis's

2357
01:41:56.819 --> 01:42:01.079
best work, and as someone who loved his time as Doctor Who

2358
01:42:01.079 --> 01:42:04.979
Showrunner, It was just lovely to see new stuff written by him.

2359
01:42:05.039 --> 01:42:10.079
And it's funny and it's heartbreaking and harrowing and affecting

2360
01:42:10.079 --> 01:42:13.739
and just really interesting and so I can't recommend it enough.

2361
01:42:23.279 --> 01:42:29.520
Well, dear listener, as we bid a fond and tearful farewell to

2362
01:42:29.520 --> 01:42:33.239
Katie Manning as Joe Grant, That's all the time we have for this

2363
01:42:33.239 --> 01:42:34.079
episode of the podcast.

2364
01:42:34.140 --> 01:42:37.439
Nathan and I will be back in two weeks, along with Richard.

2365
01:42:37.500 --> 01:42:39.899
Todd will join us again in a month's time.

2366
01:42:39.960 --> 01:42:42.960
So story allocations for season 11.

2367
01:42:43.439 --> 01:42:48.060
Richard, if you are listening for John Pertwee's final season in

2368
01:42:48.060 --> 01:42:51.659
the role of the doctor, you will be discussing the Time Warrior

2369
01:42:51.659 --> 01:42:53.039
and the Monster of Peladin.

2370
01:42:53.279 --> 01:42:54.659
Sorry.

2371
01:42:55.199 --> 01:43:00.300
I will be handling invasion of the dinosaurs and Death to the

2372
01:43:00.300 --> 01:43:00.899
Daleks.

2373
01:43:01.680 --> 01:43:07.380
And Nathan, that leaves you with Planet of the Spiders.

2374
01:43:07.439 --> 01:43:08.939
Excellent.

2375
01:43:09.000 --> 01:43:10.020
Oh, wow.

2376
01:43:10.079 --> 01:43:11.520
I'm really excited by that.

2377
01:43:11.579 --> 01:43:13.020
I love Robert Sloan.

2378
01:43:13.079 --> 01:43:17.819
He's very unfairly maligned in some fan quarters but never by me.

2379
01:43:17.880 --> 01:43:20.340
Speaking of maligned.

2380
01:43:20.399 --> 01:43:26.039
As we move into season 12 where Todd will return, Nathan, you will

2381
01:43:26.039 --> 01:43:28.020
be discussing Revenge of the Cybermen.

2382
01:43:28.199 --> 01:43:30.300
I like revenge.

2383
01:43:30.359 --> 01:43:31.199
Yeah you're crazy.

2384
01:43:31.260 --> 01:43:38.880
Todd, you get half of the Nerva Beacon story arc with the Arc in

2385
01:43:38.880 --> 01:43:40.859
Space and Genesis of the Daleks.

2386
01:43:40.920 --> 01:43:41.939
I've lucked out.

2387
01:43:42.000 --> 01:43:43.140
You have.

2388
01:43:43.199 --> 01:43:47.880
Uh, which leaves me to uh, do the honours with the Santarian

2389
01:43:47.880 --> 01:43:48.539
experiment.

2390
01:43:48.600 --> 01:43:52.260
The Bristol boys are back, and the debut, possibly the most

2391
01:43:52.260 --> 01:43:55.319
important Doctor Who debut story, robot.

2392
01:43:55.380 --> 01:44:00.600
So, ladies and gentlemen, and those who have yet to make up their

2393
01:44:00.600 --> 01:44:01.020
minds.

2394
01:44:01.079 --> 01:44:04.020
My name's Brendan, and this is the end of Flight Through

2395
01:44:04.020 --> 01:44:04.380
Entirety.

2396
01:44:04.439 --> 01:44:04.920
We see you later.

2397
01:44:04.979 --> 01:44:06.060
Good night.

2398
01:44:06.119 --> 01:44:07.319
See you soon.

2399
01:44:10.439 --> 01:44:12.539
That one's quite your entirety.

2400
01:44:12.539 --> 01:44:15.420
For Billy, Nathan, Brendan James.

2401
01:44:15.479 --> 01:44:18.779
In this episode, you're not comfortable hip there, is reported on

2402
01:44:18.779 --> 01:44:20.220
the 3rd April 2015.

2403
01:44:20.640 --> 01:44:23.340
Next episode will be released on the 10th of May.

2404
01:44:23.399 --> 01:44:26.399
Podcasting isn't just a matter of not being frightened, you know?

2405
01:44:26.460 --> 01:44:29.279
It's being afraid and eating the cakes you have to eat anyway.

2406
01:44:33.659 --> 01:44:36.600
I can't think what else I needed to say.

2407
01:44:37.199 --> 01:44:39.300
The thals.

2408
01:44:39.300 --> 01:44:47.159
Lartep, Taron, Fungoids, gosh, this is stupid.