WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:54:42

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Hello and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety.

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The only Doctor Who podcast that's up on the slag heap with the Professor.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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And I'm invisible because Terry Nation demanded it.

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That is a very fetching shade of purple on you, though. as we hurtle towards the planet of the Daleks.

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Hooray.

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Well, this is my one as well.

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So I'm getting the entire 12 part Dalek epic, including the 6 parts that actually have Daleks in them.

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So that's particularly exciting.

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It's been a while since Terry wrote for the Dalek.

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So we had David Whittaker doing the 2 trout once and then we had that sort of crazy one last year, which barely had the Daleks in it.

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And so this is really Terry's greatest hits, isn't it?

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This is not a script that is high on originality or anything like that.

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And it does really bring back a whole lot of elements that we've seen before.

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Can I just say as I sat down to watch this and had to labour through it, I actually thought of the 3 of you.

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And what you were thinking as you were watching this, having endured so much of Terry way back when and how you were feeling as this, this spectacle unfolded before you.

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You know, I actually, I actually have a soft spot for Terry's stuff in the early 60s.

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Like, I really like He's of Mariners, and I've said, why, you can go back and listen.

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I mean, the Daleks, you know, it's sort of flawed, but it has sort of fun things in it.

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And, you know, like the other Dalek stories.

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You know, they build and there's a sort of scale and stuff.

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But I have to say that this might sort of be something that I would consider fairly tiresome.

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And so, I did go through and I made some notes and I think that I've identified a number of elements from previous Dalek story.

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So tell me if I've left anything out.

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So we have a jungle planet realised in the studio from Mission and the Chase.

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We have the BBC Sound Effects Record, Landing Atmosphere to that jungle.

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Oh, with animal noises and stuff.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Okay, yep.

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We have a spaceship crashed in the jungle, like in Mission to the Unknown.

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We have plants that are more like animals. that take you over on contact.

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So we had that in mission.

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We, of course, had the fungoids in the chase and Wester, get some extra points for calling these plants fungoids as well.

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So that's that.

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They're like vaga plants, aren't they?

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We have invisible aliens that are fairly cheap to realise from Dalek's masterplan on the planet Mira.

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We have the peace loving files and moral arguments about the value of war from the Daleks, and we have plague bombs and plans to release even further plagues from Dalek Invasion of Earth.

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Plagues on plagues.

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We have dangerous escapades through tunnels in which Al is tragically killed.

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The Daleks.

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We have the Daleks using humanoid servants, you know, subjugated humanoid servants from the invasion.

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And we have just a sort of tiresomely dark tone all the way through.

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We also have an escape up a lift shaft with a Dalek pursuing in hover mode.

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What's that from?

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The Daleks.

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Really?

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Yeah, remember?

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forgotten that?

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Ian can't get out of the Dalek.

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So they have to go up in the lift and they said the lift back down for Ian and Ian comes up in the lift, but then a Dalek's flying up after them and they have to push a statue on top.

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Don't we?

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So that, what else have I left out?

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I'm trying to think.

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In mission to the unknown?

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Does somebody take a log at all?

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Like, does...

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Yes, yes, Mark. recording a miracle?

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So Joe's taking the recording of the lot.

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Brilliant.

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In episode two, The doctor is disabled by the Daleks like shooting at his legs.

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His legs, yeah.

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Like with Ian trick.

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Weber is attacked by a tentacle, which I'm sure there's a similar thing way back in the Daleks or something like that.

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No, no, no.

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You see, this is one of the things that I had wished was in it because what we don't get is the slither, the Maya Beast or the 10th of the, but we do actually get a tentacle.

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So remember one of the files gets pulled into the swamp by a sort of crummy octopus thing in the Daleks?

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But it would have been nice to have had a sliver sort of just sort of bouncing up and down.

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Oh my god, somewhere.

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We get someone inside a dalek in person.

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We get someone impersonating a dalek insider dalek, Rebeck instead of...

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Yeah, we get a thal kind of doing the whole, what is this earth thing called kissing kind of plotline?

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Oh, do we have?

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Instead of Barbara.

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Do thals recognise handshakes?

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I don't think it's quite so overt.

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Right, okay.

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Yeah.

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But we do, well, we do actually have, in the Daleks, I think it's Ganitis says to Barbara, we won't use one of the traditions of your planet, ladies first, whereas here Lartep isn't aware of Earth tradition.

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So, 0 my god, Terry Nation is inverting one of his, dare I say it, listener, tropes.

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And the doctor is trapped in the Dalek cell with Codal, and they're devising a plan to get out of the cell, and then they attack the Dalek, you know, how they settle with it.

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And that's what they do in the Daleks as well, isn't it?

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Yeah.

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And also they're locked in a cell in Garlic Invasion of Earth, and it's actually an intelligence test to figure out their way out.

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And we're going up and down lifts.

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Is that onto lower levels?

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Is that part of the Daleks or am I misreading it?

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L. There is a lift, but I think I think it might be too much to criticise terrogation for using a lift. have doors and kind of floors and stuff.

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One thing I will mention though. interrogation's defence is that Terry Nation's 60s Dalek scripts are all typified by getting cut off from the Tatars.

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So they're prisoners, so they can't get back to the Tatars, Tatars, buried under girders.

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They're on a different planet, so they can't get back to the Tartars, et cetera, et cetera.

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In this, for most of the 1st episode, the danger is actually the TARDIS itself.

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It's a sealed environment and it's slowly killing the doctor.

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It's kind of a bit stupid though, I have to say, because, oh, it's incredibly stupid.

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The TARDIS has gone from being this sort of Whittakerrian sort of otherworldly interdimensional thing as recently as the time monster, it was like that.

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But now, like plant goo can gum up its ventilation system and the doctor's going to sort of suffocate.

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But he does have time to go and change his outfit and do his hair again.

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He does and he changes into that wonderful purple jacket.

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I think it's one of his best costume.

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It sort of double breasted and stuff.

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Yeah, I love it.

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That's the only double breasted costume he wears.

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And I think Katie fairly callously goes and does her hair and gets changed. while the doctor's dying, you know, she goes and has a good wash, but she really spends some time on her hair because it does look fabulous and quite different from before.

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So, yeah, it's almost as if they made another whole 4 part story between frontier in space and Planet of the Daleks.

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So I want to say about the jungle and I don't know whether it's you...

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I really, really liked the Planet of Campbell.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Like, I thought the set was really effective.

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You have Douglas Camfield, who's, you know, one of Doctor Who's best directors directing the Daleks through it.

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The set seems really big.

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Here, and I don't know whether it's colour or what it is, but there's a few less plants and a lot more tinsel and the whole thing just looks a little bit more crummy.

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I think that the production team aren't used to doing indoor outdoor sets.

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And all the other poetry stories have location work for going outside, you know?

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And this doesn't, for 4 episodes, you are trapped inside studio with inside studio jungle.

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I was getting cabin fever by percent.

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I was like, 0 my goodness, we need location work.

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And then suddenly there is a little bit of location work.

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Not very good though, is it?

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And it certainly doesn't fit with the rest of the planet.

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But no, but I think it's that fact.

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They haven't had to do an indoor set like this.

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They represent the outdoors, perhaps.

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They do use some film stuff for, don't they?

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They use film stuff for the ice tunnels and that looks really good.

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Good, yeah.

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And the ventilation shaft as well.

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Yeah, but if they had done that for the jungle, it might have looked better.

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Yeah, I mean, I think part of the reason we remember Kemble so well is before Day of Armageddon was recovered, which is over 10 years ago, I think now.

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The clips we always saw of Kimble were Daleks burning down the jungle, which, of course, was on film.

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It looks impressive.

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It looks big and it looks vast.

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Plus, Dougie Campfield has the capacity to make video look filmmic.

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Yeah.

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I believe this is David Maloney's 1st job on the colour era of the show.

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He had directed 3 Patrick Troughton stories.

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Yeah, that's right.

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Mind Robert Crotons and war games.

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He does a very good job in my opinion, but I do think part of it is the lack of film, because later on when we see the jungle of Planet of Evil, which is shot at Ealing Studios on film, that looks amazing.

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It's a better design jungle, though.

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I agree.

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This is just a whole heap of plants to make up from the local nursery.

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From the production office.

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Pulled out an aspidistra from leop production office and shoved some tensil on it.

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It's the planet.

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Spir it on all of a sudden.

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So I do think that's a bit of a shame.

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And I also think that the spaceship part of the set, you know, the spaceship in episode one, the...

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Yeah, the Joe stumbles into... the outside looks pretty terrible.

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Yeah, and compare that, like I remember seeing, you know, for the 1st time last year seeing what the spaceship looked like in those 1st few episodes of Dalek's master plan.

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And that set looks spectacular, you know, not just inside but outside.

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And it is like they've kind of lost their ability to make a sort of convincing indoor set.

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What I did like about that spaceship though, is that it was a fully functional set.

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So you walk through the door in it and you're in the set.

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It's not like the TARDIS, where you walk in the doors of the police box, cross over the studio, and then walk in the doors of the console. that definitely true?

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That is definitely true.

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So it was solid on the side with the door.

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And then the right hand side where the camera was was cut away.

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Right.

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So that I really liked, it kind of then doesn't help that the interior is like a space Winnebago.

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Yeah, it is pretty dismal, isn't it?

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It's not good.

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So, um, yeah.

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So we hate this, yeah?

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No, no, no, no.

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I think as individual episodes, and I think the way Terry writes it with, you know, all these little moments that are going to add to a cliffhanger or people in jeopardy.

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You can watch an episode and sort of get through an episode, right, with these moments.

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But I just found this so laborious to get through.

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It's the 1st poetry that I've struggled with.

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And I actually had to have not just like one episode a time, but I had days off in between days off to recover.

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And it took me like a good 2.5 weeks to watch this story and I just, it is my least favourite John Pertwe story. but it's not completely awful.

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Do you know, the bad thing is that I was like, I had, you know, 18 episodes of Talk 2 to Watch in the last 3 days in order to be ready for the podcast.

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So I couldn't really afford to get up and make myself a sandwich between episodes of Planet.

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Oh, and Pertwee just would have reached off the screen.

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You would have stolen it anyway, yeah.

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You know, episode one, as it all unfolds, and a lot of it's on Katie's shoulders because she's recording.

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It's pretty much a monologue for Katie in half of episode one.

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Because John's lying there, you know, with that stuff on his face as he gets all cold and all that sort of thing and she's wandering around and having to record on her tape, cassette tape.

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I was amazed by that as a kid.

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Because, you know, of course, cassettes were incredibly commonplace and cheap when I was a child and I would buy cassettes and I would record songs off the radio or very embarrassingly, I would record myself doing one man audio plays.

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Somewhere at my parents' place is a one-man rendition of Red Dwarf backwards.

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Excellent. anyway.

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So to me, a tape that ran itself. and recorded your voice rather than having to use my parents' giant stereo.

183
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That was a wonderful concept for me.

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And I wanted one.

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And of course, now the device that we record the podcast on is the size of 2 cassette tapes stacked on top of each other and it can store 10 hours worth of audio.

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I'm living in Joe Grant's future.

187
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It's great.

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I was listening to the audiobook and I'll talk more about this later, read by Mark Gatis on the way over here.

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And it says that the log had limitless power and limitless capacity.

190
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And that's what they prioritise over limitless breathable air inside the TARDIS.

191
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That's an interesting TARDIS set, you know, having the whole IKEA sort of pull out bed.

192
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They're really glamorous, actually.

193
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Richard was here.

194
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If only Richard was here, Todd, he would be able to tell us who the furniture designer was.

195
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Well, he is not.

196
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The set was designed by Roger Lymington, who did design the abandoned Time Monster version of the set.

197
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Oh, I missed that.

198
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I really loved that.

199
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Yeah we all did. thought it was great.

200
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It was absolutely wonderful.

201
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But his brief for this was to bring it closer to the Brakaki original, which is why it's no longer symmetrical.

202
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You've got the scanner suspended above.

203
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In this case, what he referred to as Teleporter pads.

204
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So there's the Star Trek influence again.

205
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They look like the transporter pads and a wall that you could get stuff out of and lockers and whatnot.

206
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And what happens to it?

207
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They just rented it for this story and then gave it back.

208
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Um, yeah, pretty much we don't see, we don't see that scanner teleport wall again.

209
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I don't think we see the lockers again.

210
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It goes back to the hexagonal walls.

211
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I like to see them lying on that bed a bit more often.

212
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Do you know what I mean?

213
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Like Joe saying, wake me when it's over or something or pertly there with one knee up. lying.

214
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Yeah, yeah, the pertly death boat.

215
00:14:56.940 --> 00:15:02.100
Look, I do like in this episode that the doctor mentions Barbara Ian and Susan.

216
00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:02.940
It's a lovely moment.

217
00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:04.320
It's the 10th anniversary.

218
00:15:04.379 --> 00:15:05.159
We're harking back.

219
00:15:05.220 --> 00:15:13.379
I also think the files are much like this podcast because they have a mythology in which Barbara is a legendary figure.

220
00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:14.820
Yes, quite right.

221
00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:15.600
Yeah, yeah.

222
00:15:15.659 --> 00:15:16.019
Yeah.

223
00:15:16.019 --> 00:15:26.159
I mean, I'm sure I'm sure if they went on, I'm sure if they went on with that, they would have revealed that their greatest medal they can offer in their space service is the cardogon of courage medal.

224
00:15:26.220 --> 00:15:27.179
Yeah, yeah.

225
00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:29.639
Cardigan of bravery.

226
00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:35.700
Well, um, Rebik kind of has a little bit of a back home going on.

227
00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:46.080
You know, it comes up to a bun, but... really good that she actually does turn up at the end of episode 2 because otherwise it's just Joe Grant all the way through.

228
00:15:46.139 --> 00:15:48.179
It's not having a female woman.

229
00:15:48.299 --> 00:15:53.580
And then Joe's is separated from the doctor and actually everybody else except for invisible people for almost 4 episodes.

230
00:15:53.639 --> 00:15:55.019
I mean, she has a brief scene.

231
00:15:55.019 --> 00:15:56.460
Invisible naked people.

232
00:15:56.580 --> 00:15:58.200
Yeah, because...

233
00:15:58.259 --> 00:15:59.220
How does that work?

234
00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:01.320
How does society work that they're completely invisible?

235
00:16:01.379 --> 00:16:02.039
I don't understand.

236
00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:02.940
It does my head in.

237
00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:08.159
So, but the thing that worries me, right, is that Wester turns up at the plane of stones later.

238
00:16:08.220 --> 00:16:18.840
West rescues Joe. She's got fungoids all over her arms and he rescues her and gives her some, you know, cures and all of that sort of thing. and she gets to be asleep for a long time.

239
00:16:18.899 --> 00:16:24.600
She's separated from the doctor for like 4 episodes and barely gets to say anything, but she does speak to Wester.

240
00:16:24.659 --> 00:16:30.539
And then Wester turns up later at the plane of stones in to the Big Purple Cape.

241
00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:32.100
They do look good.

242
00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:32.879
They look comfy.

243
00:16:32.940 --> 00:16:35.340
And Joe says, oh, that's Wester and so on.

244
00:16:35.399 --> 00:16:41.399
But then when I saw that it occurred to me that when he was nursing her back to health, he didn't have any clothes on.

245
00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:42.600
Yes.

246
00:16:42.659 --> 00:16:43.980
That's kind of icky, isn't it?

247
00:16:44.039 --> 00:16:44.580
Yeah.

248
00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:47.700
It's like, okay, you're unconscious. take you back to my place.

249
00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:49.139
Take all my clothes.

250
00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:50.399
Take all my clothes off.

251
00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:53.220
And then I'm gonna pour this gunk on your arm.

252
00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:55.019
Yeah, I think that's creepy.

253
00:16:55.080 --> 00:16:58.259
I never thought about it Yeah, before, he's completely naked.

254
00:16:59.460 --> 00:17:00.840
Yeah.

255
00:17:00.899 --> 00:17:05.759
And it's Roy Skelton, so you don't really want to be imagining him naked, I don't think.

256
00:17:05.819 --> 00:17:07.079
No, no, not really.

257
00:17:07.140 --> 00:17:10.619
And, and, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah.

258
00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:12.599
We have proper darlic voices.

259
00:17:12.660 --> 00:17:18.000
Yeah, Roy Skelton's back, and Michael Wisher does his duty as the Dalek voice, really for the 1st time.

260
00:17:18.059 --> 00:17:21.720
He did it in frontier, but this is really the meat and potatoes of it.

261
00:17:21.779 --> 00:17:23.339
Has Roy Skelton done it before?

262
00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:25.799
Yes, Roy Skelton started in Evil of the Darwex.

263
00:17:25.859 --> 00:17:26.519
Oh, okay.

264
00:17:26.579 --> 00:17:28.740
I actually don't think he's all that good.

265
00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:34.380
I've heard people say that I like Michael Wisher a lot better. but I think they're both pretty good.

266
00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:37.380
They're not Hawkings and Graham, are they?

267
00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:39.299
Who are just fantastic, unequalled.

268
00:17:39.420 --> 00:17:48.299
Michael Wisher, I think, is very good and does that sort of panicked thing and that weird thing where you lay emphasis on a syllable for too long and that kind of thing.

269
00:17:48.359 --> 00:17:49.799
And that's really good.

270
00:17:49.859 --> 00:17:56.880
They haven't quite got the same ring modulator and so the voices sound a little bit more muffled and a little bit more mechanical.

271
00:17:56.940 --> 00:17:58.859
Yeah, they're continuing to refine it.

272
00:17:58.920 --> 00:18:05.880
I actually quite like that, I have to say, because, you know, the whole idea of the Dalek is it's trapped inside this thing.

273
00:18:05.940 --> 00:18:11.220
And so having the voice just a little bit more muffled just reminds me a little bit more of it. actually quite like it.

274
00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:12.839
And they are much better.

275
00:18:12.900 --> 00:18:14.579
They're shot much more competently.

276
00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:18.779
You know, it is proper Daleks back for the 1st time and that is pretty good.

277
00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:22.440
It's good and there's more of them, even if they don't move.

278
00:18:22.500 --> 00:18:27.180
Well, in the Daleks, there were lots of fantastic sort of cardboard ones cut out.

279
00:18:27.180 --> 00:18:30.059
Yeah, at least these ones, at least these ones are 3 dimensional.

280
00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:31.079
Yeah, they're empty.

281
00:18:31.140 --> 00:18:37.559
No one's in them, but they're just sitting there and they're curiously immobile, aren't they, when people get discovered in that control room.

282
00:18:37.619 --> 00:18:39.000
They all just sort of sit there.

283
00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:45.420
Joe gets out of the bucket and there's one sitting in the corner looking straight at her getting out of it and just doesn't even register.

284
00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:46.440
It's having sleep.

285
00:18:46.559 --> 00:18:51.180
But it is good to see more of them and it's good to see the voices good to hear the voices.

286
00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:51.660
Yeah.

287
00:18:51.660 --> 00:18:57.000
And, you know, they have a lot of conversations about this patrol's out doing this, and we have to do this.

288
00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:01.559
And, you know, I like seeing sometimes that Alex is talking about what they're going to do.

289
00:19:01.619 --> 00:19:05.400
I mean, these days they just, they'd all just get the download all at once.

290
00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:06.720
Yeah, yeah.

291
00:19:06.779 --> 00:19:08.339
Just on the voices.

292
00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:10.500
Peter Hawkins, of course, is no longer with us.

293
00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:12.299
David Graham is still alive.

294
00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:24.240
Not only that, but as we speak, the new Thunderbird series, Thunderbirds Ago, has already started broadcasting in Australia on go, and David Graham is back as Parker.

295
00:19:24.299 --> 00:19:27.599
Do you know, I had always assumed that was going to be a movie.

296
00:19:27.660 --> 00:19:28.619
So it's a TV series.

297
00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:35.519
It's a TV series and how they're doing it is their physical sets with CG characters.

298
00:19:35.579 --> 00:19:37.799
So they've reconstructed Tracy Island.

299
00:19:37.859 --> 00:19:39.539
It still looks wonderfully 60s.

300
00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:41.279
As we record this podcast.

301
00:19:41.339 --> 00:19:42.660
I haven't seen an episode yet.

302
00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:43.680
I've just seen the trailers.

303
00:19:43.740 --> 00:19:49.559
Rod is a huge Thunderbirds fan and he has been worried really quite seriously about it.

304
00:19:49.619 --> 00:19:50.880
He's like, no, it's going to be terrible.

305
00:19:50.940 --> 00:19:51.539
It going to be terrible.

306
00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:54.599
He saw a design for them and he's like, no, they all look too young.

307
00:19:54.660 --> 00:19:56.039
They look pretty pubescent.

308
00:19:56.099 --> 00:20:00.779
And then he saw a trailer and ever since he's been very, very excited.

309
00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:06.000
So it's going to be next weekend for me on the 12th.

310
00:20:06.059 --> 00:20:10.259
We're going to sit down and watch the 1st new episode of Thunderbirds since 1966.

311
00:20:10.380 --> 00:20:11.759
That is pretty exciting.

312
00:20:11.819 --> 00:20:16.259
I did see the trailer on Facebook and it is pretty impressive looking.

313
00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:16.799
I thought it was great.

314
00:20:16.859 --> 00:20:21.359
Did you know that 11000000 viewers tuned into episode one of this story?

315
00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:27.779
And it's ranked the highest ranked John Pertree's episode ninth for the week.

316
00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:28.859
Ninth of the week.

317
00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:32.279
They were expecting Bloody Daleks, and what do they get?

318
00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:34.140
In part one?

319
00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:51.000
Well, if they had ever watched a Terry Nation Dalek story before, they would know that you only get to see the Dalek at the end of part one because that's the, it's like the, oh, my God, Cliffhanger, you mean this story called Noun of the Daleks has Daleks in it.

320
00:20:51.059 --> 00:20:53.819
You know, amazingly, but it's something that happens every time.

321
00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:55.380
And remember the fantastic one.

322
00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:59.819
At the end of the chase episode one where the dalek comes up out of the sand and it's coughing.

323
00:20:59.940 --> 00:21:04.920
To be fair, though, we had seen them before that in their own spaceship, plotting and conspiring and what had you.

324
00:21:04.980 --> 00:21:05.759
Okay, that's true.

325
00:21:05.819 --> 00:21:09.480
Really, in terms of cherry dation. this is the 3rd time he's done that.

326
00:21:09.539 --> 00:21:21.180
The 1st time, obviously, it was in their 1st story, the Daleks, where you just see a plunder at the end, then Dalek Invasion of Earth, it comes out of the Thames, and that would have been a big shock if they hadn't had a radio times cover saying the Daleks are back.

327
00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:27.059
And in the Daleks master plan, again, they're plotting and conspiring in the 1st episode anyway.

328
00:21:27.180 --> 00:21:28.920
We don't have the episode one reveal.

329
00:21:28.980 --> 00:21:31.079
But this is the 1st time they're invisible.

330
00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:34.259
Like it's not sand, it's not water. now invisibility.

331
00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:35.220
Yeah, yeah.

332
00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:35.880
And you know what?

333
00:21:35.940 --> 00:21:38.220
If the word Daleks hadn't been in the title.

334
00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:40.380
It actually is an excellent cliffhanger.

335
00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:45.839
Because you do get the pieces to figure it out before we get there.

336
00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:48.180
I mean, 1st of all, the doctor was chasing the Daleks.

337
00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:51.480
So it's more of a question of, hold on, who are these blonde people?

338
00:21:51.539 --> 00:21:51.960
Who are this?

339
00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:57.000
and then sort of altogether at the end when the dalek stops and you've just got its footprint.

340
00:21:57.180 --> 00:22:04.019
It's it's a penny drops moment, except the story is called Planet of the Darlet of the Darlet.

341
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:08.339
So the doctor recognises the thial straight away because they're horribly blonde, doesn't he?

342
00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:10.140
And they still live on Scaro.

343
00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:11.460
Like how does that work?

344
00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:19.140
Like, have the Daleks just gone off and adopted a planet and gone elsewhere and just forgotten about Skyro and so these people can live in peace?

345
00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:20.819
Like I thought they would have just been exterminated.

346
00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:22.079
A planet's a big place.

347
00:22:22.980 --> 00:22:25.859
The Daleks with LVID technology?

348
00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:28.559
The whole thing's a giant continuity mess anyway.

349
00:22:28.619 --> 00:22:31.799
So it's presumably still 2540.

350
00:22:31.980 --> 00:22:38.279
Oh, because we're continuing on from, it's our tenuous link to frontier and space, personally.

351
00:22:38.339 --> 00:22:45.539
It doesn't matter that the draconian human war never happens because somewhere on this planet are the 10,000 Daleks.

352
00:22:45.660 --> 00:22:49.740
I think Christopher Eccleston would be impressed by that number. think not.

353
00:22:50.099 --> 00:22:52.440
It was sort of going to happen anyway.

354
00:22:52.500 --> 00:22:53.940
So it must be 2540, right?

355
00:22:54.000 --> 00:23:02.759
And the doctor and Barbara and Ian and Susan visited the Planet Scaro many years earlier.

356
00:23:02.819 --> 00:23:03.480
Yep.

357
00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:09.299
Except doesn't the doctor say in Darlic Invasion of Earth that that's a 1000000 years in the future?

358
00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:11.700
Well, what's he basing that on?

359
00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:17.819
You know, I think that's that's pure speculation on his part because they've gone to an alien planet.

360
00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:22.079
And because they've recently been in the past and he sort of tries to hit the future lever.

361
00:23:22.140 --> 00:23:24.059
He presumes they're in the future, but maybe they're not.

362
00:23:24.119 --> 00:23:28.500
It's Doctor Who continuity and sometimes it's best not to think.

363
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:29.460
Yeah, well I think that's right.

364
00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:31.500
And certainly Terry Nation wasn't thinking about it.

365
00:23:31.559 --> 00:23:34.740
Man, he wasn't thinking about the names of the thars.

366
00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:41.819
We've got Taryn, Weber, Kodal, Rebeck, Lateb, Marat.

367
00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:43.500
Why are they all five?

368
00:23:43.500 --> 00:23:45.359
Letters.

369
00:23:45.420 --> 00:23:54.660
Kate Orman once wrote a Blake 7 story where there was a character called Two Sill, like... 2 syllable name.

370
00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:59.460
And it was sort of very deliberately a riff on that because that happens in Blake 7.

371
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:01.799
And of course, Tarron is just Terry Nation.

372
00:24:01.859 --> 00:24:02.700
Do you know what I mean?

373
00:24:02.700 --> 00:24:03.420
as a character.

374
00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:04.200
Tarrant.

375
00:24:04.259 --> 00:24:07.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah. played by Bernard Horsfall. who is back.

376
00:24:07.079 --> 00:24:11.400
He's being 2 of David Maloney's previous stories and will be in another one.

377
00:24:11.460 --> 00:24:16.140
And just a reminder to listeners who may have only joined us for Pertwee.

378
00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:19.920
In this household, Bernard Horsfall is known as British Jack Thompson.

379
00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:23.279
I think he does a really good job.

380
00:24:23.339 --> 00:24:25.380
He's very dependable and solid.

381
00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:31.559
We've got Prentice Hancock, his neighbour. reliably wooden Prentice Hancock as Labour.

382
00:24:31.619 --> 00:24:36.960
He always plays these angry people that have to go off on, you know, I think he's actually pretty well cast here.

383
00:24:37.019 --> 00:24:37.799
He's right.

384
00:24:37.859 --> 00:24:39.420
Yeah, except he's not very good at being angry.

385
00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:41.400
Well, I always find.

386
00:24:41.460 --> 00:24:43.319
He's just, you know, unreasonable.

387
00:24:43.380 --> 00:24:48.180
And then we've got the 3rd thal, played by Tim Priest, isn't it?

388
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:48.720
Hello.

389
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:54.960
And, you know, he pairs up with the doctor for a lot of the story and there's a wonderful little scene at the end.

390
00:24:55.019 --> 00:24:57.059
I think he's got a bit of a man crush on the doctor.

391
00:24:57.119 --> 00:24:58.859
Yeah, there's a bromance happening.

392
00:24:59.339 --> 00:25:03.779
I think it's a bromance because I think the doctor doesn't even really know he's alive.

393
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:04.799
Do you know what I mean?

394
00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:07.440
Codell, it's a bit unrequited for Coda.

395
00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:14.279
I think the doctor likes running into another scientist because he very rarely gets to interact with an open-minded scientist.

396
00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:18.720
And it's really good that he doesn't get killed off like it's good that he's learning from the doctor and he can take that away.

397
00:25:18.779 --> 00:25:20.220
I thought at least that's a positive.

398
00:25:20.279 --> 00:25:22.079
I really like that scene.

399
00:25:22.140 --> 00:25:24.599
I think it's in, it's in episode two.

400
00:25:24.599 --> 00:25:26.400
And it's, it's crummy.

401
00:25:26.460 --> 00:25:31.500
It's, you know, per to he delivers a lecture about bravery to Codal.

402
00:25:31.559 --> 00:25:33.779
But the 2 of them play it so nicely.

403
00:25:33.900 --> 00:25:43.319
And then there's that line at the end which can't be written by Terry Nation where the doctor says, well, after that little tutorial on bravery, off we go, and you've got to think that Terry's...

404
00:25:43.319 --> 00:25:46.680
Oh, Terry's just going, we have to put some comedy gold in here, you know.

405
00:25:46.740 --> 00:25:47.160
Yeah, yeah.

406
00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:48.660
No, you know what I think?

407
00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:52.799
I think it's Terrence Dick's reading it going, oh, for God's sake, this is ridiculously gung ho.

408
00:25:52.859 --> 00:25:54.059
I'm going to bung this line in here.

409
00:25:54.119 --> 00:25:57.599
But it's so nice. really well done. it's terrific.

410
00:25:57.660 --> 00:26:11.400
Well, the thing is, that speech on bravery, you know, we look at it now and think, oh, that's a bit mawkish, but we look at, we look at then and, you know, you had things like the troubles as they were called in Ireland.

411
00:26:11.460 --> 00:26:15.539
You had the rise of freedom fighter slash terrorist acts.

412
00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:18.599
You had the Vietnam war still going on.

413
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:27.779
The conversation about war and pacifism and what courage is was a very important thing in society at this time.

414
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:33.000
And I actually think that little bit at the end, that courage isn't about not being afraid.

415
00:26:33.059 --> 00:26:35.279
It's about being afraid and doing what you have to do anyway.

416
00:26:35.339 --> 00:26:42.420
I know just that sentiment has helped me a lot in my life when I've been afraid of doing things such as when I moved country twice, you know.

417
00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:49.440
So I have always held a place in my heart for that scene.

418
00:26:49.500 --> 00:26:53.700
You know, of course it's a bit clumsy and it bashes you over the head.

419
00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:58.259
But like you say, it's the performance. pertly doesn't overplay it.

420
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:00.299
Tim Priest's codal.

421
00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:04.619
He's terrified, but again, he doesn't overplay the fear of his character.

422
00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:07.079
It's more of a numbing fear than anything else.

423
00:27:07.140 --> 00:27:08.519
It doesn't make him hysterical.

424
00:27:08.579 --> 00:27:14.519
Um, I do wonder about the names, but I think you're going to carry on.

425
00:27:14.579 --> 00:27:15.960
So I'll wait.

426
00:27:16.019 --> 00:27:18.480
We may, yeah, we will talk about some of the other.

427
00:27:18.599 --> 00:27:32.160
I think that's a beautiful scene, and I think John does really well in this story, and I think despite labouring through it, I think there is some nice positives throughout this, but it's really good that other styles do turn up at the end of episode two.

428
00:27:32.220 --> 00:27:34.559
We've got Rebeck, played by Jane Heron.

429
00:27:34.619 --> 00:27:39.960
I think she does a pretty good job as the other love interest and the female character throughout the story.

430
00:27:40.019 --> 00:27:41.400
Yeah, I think she's pretty good.

431
00:27:41.460 --> 00:27:44.400
She gets smacked down pretty quickly by Tara.

432
00:27:44.460 --> 00:27:45.420
We'll get there in a minute.

433
00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:45.960
Go on.

434
00:27:46.019 --> 00:27:52.319
We've got Marat, played by Hillary Minister, who, of course, is um, in Alloa Low.

435
00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:54.299
As General Klickerhofen.

436
00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:54.720
Really?

437
00:27:54.779 --> 00:27:55.619
Yeah, that's him.

438
00:27:56.339 --> 00:27:57.059
He's barely in it.

439
00:27:57.119 --> 00:27:58.259
I didn't even really recognise.

440
00:27:58.319 --> 00:27:58.740
Well, exactly.

441
00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:06.299
He's in it for like, you know, two-thirds of an episode and then decides to sacrifice himself for no apparent reason, just so the Dalek corridor can be blocked up.

442
00:28:06.359 --> 00:28:09.240
He's seen the Daleks episode six.

443
00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:13.259
I think, and thought, and Antidus.

444
00:28:13.259 --> 00:28:13.799
Yes.

445
00:28:13.859 --> 00:28:15.779
Antidus is his role model.

446
00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:19.140
And so off he goes, sacrificing himself bravely.

447
00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:22.140
He may as well have a big target printer on his forehead. so clearly dead.

448
00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:23.940
And then there's...

449
00:28:23.940 --> 00:28:30.119
And then there's everyone's 70s teen idol, Latep.

450
00:28:30.299 --> 00:28:32.279
Petal backwards.

451
00:28:32.339 --> 00:28:50.460
Yeah, who, of course, develops a huge crush on Joe, just through holding hands and scaling down the ventilation shaft, like with no harness or anything, just going straight down how many metres it is. miles, the doctor says. you know, and then feels like he needs to propose to her.

452
00:28:51.059 --> 00:28:53.759
I love how she lets him down, though.

453
00:28:53.880 --> 00:28:54.660
She's very sweet.

454
00:28:54.720 --> 00:28:58.859
Yeah, she's not in love with him, although she's a bit affected by it at the end.

455
00:28:58.920 --> 00:29:12.359
Yeah, no, well, yeah, she certainly, it's kind of the thing of, you know, the 1st time, the 1st time you meet someone whom you eventually have a relationship with or what have you, there's always a friskle there to start with.

456
00:29:12.420 --> 00:29:19.019
So I think for Joe, the Frisson is there to start with and Lartep's just leaping ahead in bounds and leaps.

457
00:29:19.079 --> 00:29:23.700
Well, they've only got a couple of episodes to sort of get the chemistry and sort of pull that off.

458
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:30.900
And I think both of them are doing a really good job of trying to get that chemistry in a few scenes that they've got and so that there's some sort of payoff.

459
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:37.980
You know, it's 3 strikes and you're out for Joe. Yeah, well, I think that he's too young and not sufficiently pretty for her and that's really the issue.

460
00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:39.660
So it's never really a thing.

461
00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:42.720
In terms of the supporting file characters.

462
00:29:42.779 --> 00:29:48.720
I think this is probably the best example of nation putting some thought into his character names.

463
00:29:48.779 --> 00:29:51.420
So you've got Taryn, who is Tarrant.

464
00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:54.000
So he's the voice of the author in the story.

465
00:29:54.059 --> 00:29:55.019
Fair enough.

466
00:29:55.079 --> 00:29:57.720
You've got Weber.

467
00:29:57.779 --> 00:29:59.940
Weber, Sabre.

468
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:01.140
It's an aggressive name.

469
00:30:01.319 --> 00:30:03.420
Codal codeine.

470
00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:05.519
He's on, he's the scientist.

471
00:30:05.579 --> 00:30:06.240
He's the medic.

472
00:30:06.299 --> 00:30:07.440
I thought quadrel, but anyway.

473
00:30:07.559 --> 00:30:08.160
Oh, quadrill?

474
00:30:08.220 --> 00:30:10.799
you know, but it's a scientific sounding name.

475
00:30:10.859 --> 00:30:14.700
Rebeck, of course, was named after his daughter, which is very nice.

476
00:30:14.819 --> 00:30:19.380
Marritt can't really think of why he's called Marritt, but you know, he dies.

477
00:30:20.160 --> 00:30:24.359
It's the sound he makes when he when he hits the ice floor.

478
00:30:24.420 --> 00:30:24.960
Yes.

479
00:30:25.019 --> 00:30:27.599
Or maybe corruption of mort.

480
00:30:27.660 --> 00:30:28.740
The French for death.

481
00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:33.059
And finally, that leaves us with lartep, of course, petal backwards.

482
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:46.380
But coming back to that concept of is courage fighting or is courage, not fighting when the cause is not worth fighting for.

483
00:30:46.440 --> 00:30:49.079
Is it being peaceful when others around you are being aggressive?

484
00:30:49.140 --> 00:30:53.220
What was a big symbol of the peace movement, but flowers?

485
00:30:53.940 --> 00:31:01.019
And he's the 2nd person this season, whose name is an anagram of petal.

486
00:31:01.019 --> 00:31:05.339
From the peace party.

487
00:31:05.339 --> 00:31:06.359
From the peace party.

488
00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:07.200
Coincidence?

489
00:31:07.259 --> 00:31:08.339
I think not.

490
00:31:08.400 --> 00:31:09.480
So what's the connection?

491
00:31:09.539 --> 00:31:10.619
Terrence Dix?

492
00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:17.099
Well, very probably Terrence Sticks, but they are both pacifist characters who insist there's got to be a better way other than war.

493
00:31:17.160 --> 00:31:19.740
We're taking this to whole new levels, guys.

494
00:31:19.799 --> 00:31:21.960
It's crazy, isn't it?

495
00:31:22.019 --> 00:31:22.859
We're back on the lift.

496
00:31:23.579 --> 00:31:26.339
There are a couple of sequences that I really like.

497
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:34.200
I love them crawling through the ice tunnels, which I think is really well realised, even if having a planet full of molten ice makes no sense to my brain.

498
00:31:34.259 --> 00:31:37.920
And I love the ventilation shark, the ventilation shaft.

499
00:31:37.980 --> 00:31:50.640
Obviously, Terry has watched Charlie and the chocolate factory, which came out, you know, a year or so before where Charlie and his grandfather take the drinks and they go, they float the shafts.

500
00:31:50.700 --> 00:31:54.359
So I kind of think of it in those parallels.

501
00:31:54.420 --> 00:31:55.440
But I really like those sequences.

502
00:31:55.559 --> 00:32:05.579
I think he does good action set pieces, you know, part of the problem with the Daleks back in 1963 was that was all it had going for it in for like 3 whole episodes, you know.

503
00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:08.339
But, you know, his reigned in a little bit.

504
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:09.839
There's a little more going on here.

505
00:32:09.900 --> 00:32:13.259
And so there's action set pieces are pretty good.

506
00:32:13.319 --> 00:32:14.880
You know, they're pretty memorable I think.

507
00:32:14.940 --> 00:32:17.160
I do get a bit sick of the bombs, you know?

508
00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:21.359
Something's always detonating the bombs or having to stop the donation of the bombs.

509
00:32:21.420 --> 00:32:23.700
Poor, Katie gets hit on head to the polish.

510
00:32:23.759 --> 00:32:27.539
Founding rock, which should kill Joe, but luckily doesn't.

511
00:32:27.599 --> 00:32:30.779
There's a lot of hitting people on the head with objects in this story.

512
00:32:30.839 --> 00:32:34.500
There's a lot of hitting them with big sticks and floating mid-air.

513
00:32:34.559 --> 00:32:37.380
But that rock, that's really terrible.

514
00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:41.220
It's like a massive giant polystoring boulder that hits her on the head.

515
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:50.519
Unfortunately, doesn't break the skin, doesn't mess up her hair, she's able to fix the, you know, recover quite quickly, just makes you go to sleep. just briefly.

516
00:32:50.579 --> 00:32:51.420
You know, little nap.

517
00:32:51.539 --> 00:32:56.400
It is really lucky that the geology of this planet is formed entirely from Jabalite.

518
00:32:56.460 --> 00:32:57.480
I just have to say.

519
00:32:57.539 --> 00:32:58.380
Yes, I think that would be it.

520
00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:02.519
Now, we've got the plane of stones.

521
00:33:03.480 --> 00:33:09.480
I actually quite like them in the set of the Plainest Stones, the Men Lookout Museum.

522
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:11.819
I light things.

523
00:33:11.880 --> 00:33:12.660
Yeah they're pretty good.

524
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:25.440
But then, of course, in episode 5 when we get into daylight, then we can actually go, for no apparent reason, on to location, just so we can push the Dalek into a ice canoe.

525
00:33:25.500 --> 00:33:28.799
So tell me, does this ice kill the Daleks?

526
00:33:29.819 --> 00:33:38.099
Well, the doctor says that the extreme cold will make them dormant, but yeah, I would presume that then throwing the mutant into the ice.

527
00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:43.859
Oh, maybe that's it. because I thought it killed the Daleks like when they pushed them into the puddle, but they weren't dead.

528
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:44.700
Did it kill him straight away?

529
00:33:44.759 --> 00:33:48.660
I don't think it did because when they go to open it, they're like, what if it's still alive?

530
00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:51.480
The doctor says something like, oh, no, no, no, it'll be dormant, you'll be fine.

531
00:33:51.539 --> 00:33:52.079
Okay.

532
00:33:52.140 --> 00:33:53.940
So then they throw it in Denning.

533
00:33:54.059 --> 00:33:54.900
Then they throw it in there.

534
00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:56.400
But they do come around it. get to see that.

535
00:33:56.460 --> 00:33:58.140
Which, again, is from the Daleks.

536
00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:00.420
We don't get to see them lift things out.

537
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:02.400
Now there's 10,000 Daleks.

538
00:34:02.460 --> 00:34:09.480
They do make a valiant attempt to sort of cut from the actor's faces to looking at the 10,000.

539
00:34:09.900 --> 00:34:10.559
I think they're all right.

540
00:34:10.619 --> 00:34:11.579
Yeah, you know.

541
00:34:11.639 --> 00:34:12.840
As I said, a valiant effort.

542
00:34:12.840 --> 00:34:14.639
They move around. and stuff.

543
00:34:14.699 --> 00:34:17.099
I mean, how else are you going to do it?

544
00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:18.420
for 1973.

545
00:34:18.539 --> 00:34:19.440
No CG.

546
00:34:19.500 --> 00:34:22.980
I never thought this phrase would be uttered, but if only they'd had Daypole.

547
00:34:22.980 --> 00:34:24.599
If only they had.

548
00:34:24.659 --> 00:34:33.780
It is rather convenient that there's a back passage out of that entire refrigeration area, which they discovering episode six.

549
00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:36.659
But they didn't have access to an episode before.

550
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:40.440
Like if they've gone through the arsenal and up those things, they wouldn't have had to, yeah.

551
00:34:40.920 --> 00:34:42.239
I haven't really thought of that before.

552
00:34:42.300 --> 00:34:52.980
Well, you know, like there's catwalks that lead up to the outside, which the doctor suddenly realises must be there in episode six, which would have been very useful from when they were escaping earlier.

553
00:34:53.099 --> 00:34:56.099
But hey, we got to have a 12 episode story, so it's not going to happen, isn't it?

554
00:34:56.159 --> 00:34:58.079
Are you saying you just didn't like merit very much?

555
00:34:58.139 --> 00:34:59.699
Yeah, maybe that was it.

556
00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:06.960
The doctor couldn't figure out the linguistic and thematic connection of Marritt's name, so he had to go. had to go.

557
00:35:07.019 --> 00:35:13.260
Of course, the files have to get off the planet somewhere, and of course, the only way they're going to get off is biodalek spaceship.

558
00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:16.079
So the Dalek Supreme arrives.

559
00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:18.719
One of my favourite Daleks.

560
00:35:18.780 --> 00:35:20.579
Oh, tell us about it and what?

561
00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:23.940
Oh, he just looks impressive, you know.

562
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:25.500
The black and gold colour scheme.

563
00:35:25.559 --> 00:35:26.400
I have the toy here.

564
00:35:26.460 --> 00:35:37.980
It's one of the 1st Doctor Who toys I bought when I moved to the UK because it came out in a pack with a Dalek from the original story of the Daleks, and I believe the Dalek from Genesis of the Daleks.

565
00:35:38.039 --> 00:35:40.679
It's got a flashlight in its eye.

566
00:35:40.739 --> 00:35:44.340
It's got 2 jam jars, it's black and gold and glorious.

567
00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:46.739
And of course, the lights don't come on at the right time.

568
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:51.900
You can't tell who's speaking some of the time, actually, because the operator can't make the lights.

569
00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:58.980
Maybe it's because they're wired, the flashlight in or something, but it doesn't respond quickly enough to the switch or something.

570
00:35:59.039 --> 00:36:04.139
So it sort of goes on and off really slowly and I'm not entirely sure that it works.

571
00:36:04.199 --> 00:36:11.940
But it does continue the tradition of having the chief dalek be even more shrieky and kind of hysterical than everyone else, which I kind of like.

572
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:14.460
And I do like I like the flashlight.

573
00:36:14.519 --> 00:36:23.760
Yeah, I mean, this dalek is actually adapted from one of the film daleks from Dalek Invasion Earth, 2150 AD. Did Terry Nation own it?

574
00:36:23.820 --> 00:36:28.320
Terry Nation owned it and loaned it out to production. and that's why its neck rings are a bit different.

575
00:36:28.380 --> 00:36:31.079
It doesn't have the slats between the neck rings.

576
00:36:31.139 --> 00:36:33.960
I also believe, and I could be wrong on this.

577
00:36:34.019 --> 00:36:40.380
I believe that whoever was operating it, this was actually their 1st time inside the Dalek, which is why the lights were a bit off.

578
00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:45.780
And what's amazing about the Supreme Dalek is the Supreme Dalek survives.

579
00:36:46.199 --> 00:36:50.159
Yes, it's stranded on the chases after the doctor.

580
00:36:50.340 --> 00:36:58.019
So much like the end of the last story, we have the doctor and Joe leaving, they had solved the immediate problem, but this world still goes on.

581
00:36:58.079 --> 00:36:59.099
This world still exists.

582
00:36:59.159 --> 00:37:04.079
They've still got the Spiridonians and they're still 3 or 4 Daleks on the planet and they just...

583
00:37:04.139 --> 00:37:06.599
There's somewhere on this planet of 10,000 Daleks.

584
00:37:06.659 --> 00:37:09.780
They're all in an ice canoe and Big Finish would return to that.

585
00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:10.739
Oh, really?

586
00:37:10.739 --> 00:37:20.159
Yep, with Sylvester McCoy in a story called Return of the Daleks, which was the working title for this and every other Terry Nation written Dalek story in the 70s.

587
00:37:20.219 --> 00:37:27.960
And it ties in with their excellent Dalek Empire series of audios, which features Gareth Thomas and Sarah Mowat.

588
00:37:28.079 --> 00:37:29.159
Wow.

589
00:37:29.219 --> 00:37:31.139
Do I have to listen to those?

590
00:37:31.260 --> 00:37:32.280
No, thanks.

591
00:37:32.340 --> 00:37:34.920
I give you permission not to listen to those.

592
00:37:34.980 --> 00:37:36.719
They've also got David Tennant at some of them.

593
00:37:36.780 --> 00:37:38.340
Oh, cool.

594
00:37:38.820 --> 00:37:44.159
Click hanging at episode 3 and the reprise in episode 4 is actually different.

595
00:37:44.219 --> 00:37:50.039
Do you know, in this story, the Cliffhanger to episode one and the reprise for episode 2 are different as well?

596
00:37:50.099 --> 00:37:54.480
So they don't go back and have a reprise of a few minutes.

597
00:37:54.539 --> 00:37:56.820
I actually thought there's one cliffhanger.

598
00:37:56.880 --> 00:37:59.400
It's like Weber imperil cliffhanger, as if we cared.

599
00:38:01.019 --> 00:38:03.840
Yes, that's terribly boring, isn't it?

600
00:38:03.900 --> 00:38:07.199
I guess he's got the bombs, which we're all terribly interested in all the time.

601
00:38:07.980 --> 00:38:11.760
But yeah, you know, if it was literally any of the other files except for Marritt, we care more.

602
00:38:11.820 --> 00:38:13.440
Because we don't like Vaber.

603
00:38:13.500 --> 00:38:14.460
No.

604
00:38:14.579 --> 00:38:17.159
And it's not just because he's Prentice Hancock.

605
00:38:17.219 --> 00:38:19.860
But it's mostly because he's Prentice Hancock.

606
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:20.639
Yeah, that's right.

607
00:38:20.699 --> 00:38:25.860
Yes, I think it's comparing her to episode 4 and 5 because I've got here cliffhanger speaking grimace.

608
00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:29.760
So the grimace sponsors is going, oh, whatever.

609
00:38:29.820 --> 00:38:33.239
And then Waver is finally killed in episode 5 in my show notes.

610
00:38:33.300 --> 00:38:33.840
Finally.

611
00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:38.760
Prentice Hancock appears, I believe, 4 times in Doctor Who.

612
00:38:38.820 --> 00:38:41.340
And in 2 of them, he's just sort of supporting.

613
00:38:41.400 --> 00:38:47.099
But whenever he has a main role, he always gets a quite spectacular death.

614
00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:50.699
So in this, you know, he's killed by the Daleks and in Planet of Evil.

615
00:38:50.760 --> 00:38:52.440
Does he get killed by the thing?

616
00:38:52.500 --> 00:38:55.079
He gets killed by the thing after he goes insane.

617
00:38:55.139 --> 00:38:56.699
But we'll comment on that later.

618
00:38:57.719 --> 00:38:59.219
Anything else?

619
00:38:59.219 --> 00:39:04.380
I was just going to get back to something you were saying earlier, Todd, that, you know, you had to watch this with gaps and you had to put it on.

620
00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:06.780
I remember you texting me and saying, I'm taking 3 days off.

621
00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:07.559
I can't handle it.

622
00:39:07.619 --> 00:39:08.820
I really struggle.

623
00:39:08.940 --> 00:39:15.000
This is one of the stories which, if I've got a rainy day by myself.

624
00:39:15.059 --> 00:39:19.619
This is one of the ones I put on and I just sit back and I watch the whole thing in one go.

625
00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:37.860
This is, this is me with a bucket of ice cream and a spoon style Doctor Who, you know, this is Doctor Who for certainly not the soul, but the waistline of the brain, you know, it's fattening and it's terrible and it's stupid, but I love it so much.

626
00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:43.139
Do you know, I think I think Pertu is often like that, and even bad Pertu is a lot like that.

627
00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:58.019
I have hugely, hugely fond memories of this story, not because of seeing it on broadcast or, you know, in repeats, because I read the novelisation long before I ever saw it, and the novelisation is great.

628
00:39:58.079 --> 00:39:59.219
It's not massively long.

629
00:39:59.340 --> 00:40:05.760
It's not one of Terrence's more sort of Florida or well worked out efforts, but it's really, really enjoyable.

630
00:40:05.820 --> 00:40:12.179
And Terrence's pros, combined with the plotty action thing that Terry is able to do.

631
00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:13.440
It's really good.

632
00:40:13.500 --> 00:40:14.340
I really like it.

633
00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:27.480
Apparently, according to Richard, it's Mark Gatis's favourite. target novelisation and it's actually available, read by Mark Gatis, which is really, really nice.

634
00:40:27.539 --> 00:40:29.639
So I'm listening to it again at the moment.

635
00:40:29.699 --> 00:40:32.099
The novel is very influential.

636
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:39.900
It's one of 2 novels that was abridged and read by Pertwi in the 90s shortly before he passed away, the other being cursed peladin.

637
00:40:39.960 --> 00:40:50.340
There's a very funny, but not suitable for younger people edit of Pertwee's reading of the novel on YouTube, and that's all I'm going to say.

638
00:40:50.400 --> 00:40:59.820
But also the cover by Chris O Kelly or Swift, the doctor and Taryn fighting the Daleg and Planet in the background and Comet streaming down.

639
00:40:59.880 --> 00:41:08.639
If you look at the DVD cover next to it, Clayton Hickman has recreated that in Photoshop and it's an amazing piece.

640
00:41:08.699 --> 00:41:14.159
And when it came out, there were lots of criticisms against him about how can you steal that design?

641
00:41:14.219 --> 00:41:17.039
And it's like, no, it's not stealing the design.

642
00:41:17.099 --> 00:41:19.019
It's paying homage to design.

643
00:41:19.079 --> 00:41:21.659
Yeah, because it's so wonderful and iconic.

644
00:41:21.719 --> 00:41:26.760
Yeah, well, Brendan, you know, I'm pleased that you enjoy this story on a rainy day.

645
00:41:26.820 --> 00:41:35.880
I struggled through it and it's part of the scientific concepts, which are very 1960s.

646
00:41:35.880 --> 00:41:38.820
It's very pulp 50s sci-fi down there sort of stuff.

647
00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:51.239
And, you know, I don't, it's not the worst story I've ever, it's not my least favourite by anythings, but, you know, I found it laborious and, you know, I think it's certainly one of the weaker per twist for me.

648
00:41:51.300 --> 00:41:55.380
Certainly, this approach was dated back in 1963.

649
00:41:55.559 --> 00:42:03.360
Yeah, and they would, they would in the next couple of years, Terry Nation's a bit scripts again, and they really tighten them up and make him produce new ideas.

650
00:42:03.420 --> 00:42:04.619
But you know what?

651
00:42:04.679 --> 00:42:09.900
I'm going to give the last comment on this to Rod, which was, you know, he quite enjoyed it.

652
00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:10.860
He liked the designs.

653
00:42:10.920 --> 00:42:15.420
He said that the statues outside the Dalek City actually look a bit like Totemic Daleks.

654
00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:22.139
But in the end, he said, I want to enjoy this story more, but I don't.

655
00:42:22.199 --> 00:42:23.159
Great comment.

656
00:42:32.219 --> 00:42:48.780
So, um, yeah, hurtling towards the end of the season now with uh, the Green Death, and uh, just in that little interstitial void, we actually had our 1st baked good for quite a while, pistachio and green Death, tea, cupcakes.

657
00:42:48.840 --> 00:42:51.119
And you'll see the recipe for those online.

658
00:42:51.179 --> 00:42:56.699
You're also noticing the photo I made a little maggot out of icing just for this story.

659
00:42:56.760 --> 00:42:57.840
They were delicious.

660
00:42:57.900 --> 00:42:58.980
Thank you, Brendan.

661
00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:01.440
And the front axial projection was particularly effective.

662
00:43:01.500 --> 00:43:02.639
Yeah, as well.

663
00:43:02.699 --> 00:43:04.079
It serves a very similar function.

664
00:43:04.139 --> 00:43:09.599
So the end of the season, the end of the 10th anniversary season.

665
00:43:09.659 --> 00:43:13.320
This one is mine, and it is quite a favourite for me.

666
00:43:13.380 --> 00:43:16.440
The 1st episode is a bit of an odd one for me.

667
00:43:16.500 --> 00:43:31.260
I've very rarely seen it because when I was growing up, the copies of the episodes that we had recorded off ABC TV would sometimes have the 1st episode at the back of the tape of the previous story.

668
00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:36.960
So to get to the Green Death, I had to fast forward through 6 episodes of Planet of the Daleks.

669
00:43:37.019 --> 00:43:40.199
And our green death tape only had episodes 2 to 6.

670
00:43:40.260 --> 00:43:44.519
But that 1st episode is so very, very important.

671
00:43:44.820 --> 00:43:49.739
It's another example of Robert Sloman delaying someone getting into the plot.

672
00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:54.300
You know, the doctor goes off on his trip to Metabelist 3, which I never realised was shot on location.

673
00:43:54.360 --> 00:43:58.079
Shot on location and at night, it looks like, as well.

674
00:43:58.139 --> 00:44:00.780
Yeah, it was shot between 4 and 7 p.m.

675
00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:13.500
And as you drive up to the mine, you get a perspective shot, I think, at the end of episode one with the doctor in the brig driving up to the mine, you see 3 roads, like one going straight ahead and 2 veering off to the right.

676
00:44:13.559 --> 00:44:18.179
If you take the 1st road, you go to the metabolis 3 quarry or metabolis 3 will come to that.

677
00:44:18.239 --> 00:44:21.119
If you take the 2nd road, you go to the nut hutch.

678
00:44:21.239 --> 00:44:22.739
And if you take the 3rd road, you go to the mine.

679
00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:25.079
So all the locations were really quite close together.

680
00:44:25.139 --> 00:44:25.739
Right.

681
00:44:25.739 --> 00:44:26.340
Wow.

682
00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:29.340
Yeah, it was a very economical way to do it.

683
00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:33.059
We've got Michael Lee Bryant back as director.

684
00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:35.099
What did he do previously?

685
00:44:35.159 --> 00:44:37.980
He's done the sea devils, colony in space.

686
00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:42.659
He's never done a Sloman Letts finale though before.

687
00:44:42.719 --> 00:44:43.980
No, he hasn't.

688
00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:44.699
And you know what?

689
00:44:44.760 --> 00:44:47.760
I think it really picks up the script.

690
00:44:47.820 --> 00:44:52.079
You know, out of the Damons, the Time Monster, and this.

691
00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:56.460
Firstly, I think the script is a big improvement. the last two.

692
00:44:56.519 --> 00:44:58.800
It is the best of these 3 scripts.

693
00:44:58.920 --> 00:45:00.960
Well, I think it's the best of these 4 scripts.

694
00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:03.360
Spoiler alert for spiders.

695
00:45:03.420 --> 00:45:09.119
I actually think Sloman and Let's do a pretty terrible job of these finales.

696
00:45:09.179 --> 00:45:13.079
And the last 2 have been really bad, like increasingly bad.

697
00:45:13.139 --> 00:45:15.059
And this is one that they get right.

698
00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:16.500
I have to get it right.

699
00:45:16.559 --> 00:45:20.699
You know, Katie's leaving and I think they, you know, they really want to try and construct something for her.

700
00:45:20.760 --> 00:45:34.860
And so the problems with the scripts that we identified before, which were largely pacing problems and the fact that incidents would get introduced and then thrown away and things happened with no sort of real character purpose, that's happening much less here.

701
00:45:34.920 --> 00:45:49.139
Yeah, I think because Robert Sloiman has a central idea, which he has to deal with, which really is the leaving the departure of Katie Manning, which, spoiler alert listeners, happens in episode 6 of this story, or does it?

702
00:45:49.199 --> 00:45:50.159
I'll come back to that in a moment.

703
00:45:50.219 --> 00:45:54.780
Barry Litts has spoken about the sort of writing process that he and Robert Sloman would do.

704
00:45:54.840 --> 00:45:55.440
Right.

705
00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:59.460
And pretty much, because they lived quite close by, they were very good friends.

706
00:45:59.519 --> 00:46:06.599
Robert Sloman was the only writer who was commissioned for each of his stories before a storyline had been written up.

707
00:46:06.659 --> 00:46:09.900
Usually writers would have to send in a storyline which they'd get commissioned from.

708
00:46:09.960 --> 00:46:13.380
But because Barry had worked with Robert and knew how he worked.

709
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:15.059
They would come up with an idea.

710
00:46:15.119 --> 00:46:27.420
And the idea for this story was actually alien amoeboid creatures instead of the maggots, and they were invading and they've been sent by this forced da da da.

711
00:46:27.480 --> 00:46:43.679
But then there was an article published all about how humanity can't keep using the planet on its current course and 100s of scientists and reporters and whatnot signed off on it, saying, yeah, this is this is actually true.

712
00:46:43.739 --> 00:46:45.900
And that's where the environmental angle came from.

713
00:46:45.960 --> 00:46:47.820
I think it's pretty much ahead of its time.

714
00:46:47.880 --> 00:46:55.440
And I remember as a kid watching this, thinking, oh, you know, all this stuff's bad, you know, refineries and all that.

715
00:46:55.500 --> 00:47:11.159
I mean, you might pull a face, Nathan, but I come from a very conservative background with certain worldviews, and I was never exposed to things like, you know, the advancement of technology is a bad thing, whereas this was presenting me as something that I never really thought about in any way, shape, or form.

716
00:47:11.219 --> 00:47:12.360
It was around.

717
00:47:12.420 --> 00:47:26.039
You remember when we talked about Planet of Giants, we talked about a few sort of cultural influences, including the silent spring and things, which suggested that ideas about pollution and stuff were around in the wider culture.

718
00:47:26.099 --> 00:47:30.300
So I don't know that I don't know that this story's ahead of its time, but it's very timely.

719
00:47:30.360 --> 00:47:31.380
Do you know what I mean?

720
00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:39.300
And I think what they're trying to do, and I think as excellent as the amoeboids storyline might have been.

721
00:47:39.420 --> 00:48:00.179
The idea is that the whole story is structured around Joe's reason for leaving and Joe leaves in order to continue the fight, in order to fight for her principles, not in sort of stupid made-up science fiction planets in TV studios, but in the world that she actually comes from.

722
00:48:00.239 --> 00:48:03.659
So the whole thing is structured around that reason for leaving.

723
00:48:03.719 --> 00:48:07.739
And so rather than aliens, it's about pollution.

724
00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:10.679
And there's a sense in which it's all very simplistic.

725
00:48:10.739 --> 00:48:11.460
Do you know what I mean?

726
00:48:11.519 --> 00:48:20.039
Like the corporation is very evil and very obviously evil and and hippies are very obviously good and pollution is very bad and all of that sort of thing.

727
00:48:20.099 --> 00:48:28.920
There's nothing sort of massively subtle about any of that, but it's thematically all structured around the need to give Joe a good reason to leave.

728
00:48:28.980 --> 00:48:31.079
And when does she leave, Brendan?

729
00:48:31.139 --> 00:48:32.579
Joe leaves in episode one.

730
00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:51.179
When we 1st see the doctor and Joe, they're actually kind of mirroring the last Robert Sloman season finale with Joe reading a newspaper and the doctor not paying any attention to her and they get into they get into their mock argument of not listening to each other.

731
00:48:51.300 --> 00:48:56.099
And it does look like it's going to come to blows and then they both laugh and yeah, everything's happy and whatnot.

732
00:48:56.159 --> 00:49:03.780
But this time, instead of just going along with the doctor when he dismisses it, Joe's like, no, no, we really have to do this.

733
00:49:03.780 --> 00:49:06.960
And the doctor pulls out every trick.

734
00:49:07.079 --> 00:49:11.820
Like, I'm not just offering you metabulous three, I'm offering you all of time and space.

735
00:49:11.880 --> 00:49:16.920
And what's amazing is, you know, he has a persuasive argument, which is it's a time machine.

736
00:49:16.980 --> 00:49:20.219
We'll be back before we left, but Joe's reaction, isn't it?

737
00:49:20.280 --> 00:49:22.019
You know, no, this is this is morality.

738
00:49:22.139 --> 00:49:25.320
I can't just run off and have fun while my planets dying.

739
00:49:25.860 --> 00:49:30.119
And when she decides.

740
00:49:30.239 --> 00:49:33.300
No, no, absolutely not, I'm going off with the brigadier.

741
00:49:33.360 --> 00:49:35.519
That's when the doctor actually agrees to go to Wales.

742
00:49:36.059 --> 00:49:39.539
Because the brigadier has been in saying to him, oh, you've got to come down.

743
00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:41.699
You've got to come down and the doctor's like, no, I'm going off on a trip.

744
00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:42.960
He doesn't say the brigadier.

745
00:49:43.019 --> 00:49:43.559
Ill follow you down.

746
00:49:43.619 --> 00:49:46.139
It's when Joe is leaving to go down there.

747
00:49:46.199 --> 00:49:48.179
He says, I'll follow you down.

748
00:49:48.239 --> 00:49:49.860
It's interesting.

749
00:49:49.920 --> 00:49:56.460
I remember watching this as a kid, that entire sequence, and I just said to myself, Joe's going to leave.

750
00:49:56.519 --> 00:50:02.280
I just, you know, how that things flick in your mind. and it's just that realisation.

751
00:50:02.340 --> 00:50:06.840
I love the drive down with her and the brig and that's a nice little moment.

752
00:50:06.900 --> 00:50:16.679
The thing that I really love about that leaving scene just before they head off is that the doctor realises that Joe's leaving, but Joe doesn't realise that.

753
00:50:16.739 --> 00:50:17.460
Yes, yes, yes.

754
00:50:17.519 --> 00:50:19.800
And she seems so young there.

755
00:50:19.860 --> 00:50:20.760
Do you know what I mean?

756
00:50:20.820 --> 00:50:21.900
Like, he's old.

757
00:50:21.960 --> 00:50:26.219
He kind of knows what's coming, but she doesn't.

758
00:50:26.280 --> 00:50:28.139
And I think that's lovely and poignant.

759
00:50:28.199 --> 00:50:34.199
And the thing is, for the 1st time with poetry, I think we're getting a little bit of interiority.

760
00:50:34.260 --> 00:50:34.920
Do you know what I mean?

761
00:50:34.980 --> 00:50:36.000
It's nothing major.

762
00:50:36.059 --> 00:50:38.340
He's not that interesting a character.

763
00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:41.639
But at least we do start to see these things from his point of view.

764
00:50:41.699 --> 00:50:44.519
Yeah, well, for want of a better word.

765
00:50:44.579 --> 00:50:47.579
Joe is the character who has given him his humanity.

766
00:50:47.639 --> 00:50:50.219
You know, his his empathy.

767
00:50:50.400 --> 00:50:53.880
And now he knows she's going away.

768
00:50:53.940 --> 00:51:01.980
But because he's got that sense of empathy and that sense of fairness now because of her, he won't say anything.

769
00:51:02.219 --> 00:51:04.440
I'm not choking up now.

770
00:51:04.500 --> 00:51:12.059
I choke up in that 1st scene when she 1st leaves, which brings us then to the cliffhanger of that episode where she's falling in the mind.

771
00:51:12.119 --> 00:51:17.460
It's the standard Doctor Who thing of, you know, it's the close-up of the doctor's reaction to the situation.

772
00:51:17.519 --> 00:51:20.400
But the doctor's reaction to this situation.

773
00:51:20.460 --> 00:51:35.099
It's pertly saying what, but it's pertly's face saying, I'll never see her again. you know, and so he, yeah, jams a piece of metal into the works to make it stop and has to hold it there, which could wrench his arms off.

774
00:51:35.159 --> 00:51:36.420
He does that all to save his friend.

775
00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:40.079
It's one of those wonderful accents it's not commented on.

776
00:51:40.139 --> 00:51:43.619
But it's one of those wonderful acts which is both selfless and selfish.

777
00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:48.059
He's doing it to save Joe, but he's doing it to save Joe because he can't live without her.

778
00:51:48.480 --> 00:51:52.260
Yeah, Robert Simon is just knocking it out of the park with this one.

779
00:51:52.320 --> 00:51:55.800
He's given proper human emotions to work with.

780
00:51:55.860 --> 00:52:02.820
And I think that is kind of what was missing in the Time Monster, and to an extent in the Damons as well.

781
00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:03.780
The Damons.

782
00:52:03.900 --> 00:52:04.739
A very large extent.

783
00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:14.039
Well, the Damons, at least, it had Miss Hawthorne, who was a very emotional, empathetic character and it had Joe's attempt at sacrifice at the end.

784
00:52:14.159 --> 00:52:16.800
Whereas time... really terrible.

785
00:52:17.820 --> 00:52:20.880
Which the time monster didn't have any of that.

786
00:52:20.940 --> 00:52:26.639
But it looks like, you know, if you give Robert Sloman proper emotions to work with, and in my opinion, we'll see this again next year.

787
00:52:26.699 --> 00:52:29.340
He really turns in a good script.

788
00:52:29.400 --> 00:52:31.860
I really like episode one.

789
00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:40.679
I love Joe turning up down at the Nut Hutch and a whole meeting with Professor Jones, who parallels her very 1st meeting with the 3rd doctor.

790
00:52:40.739 --> 00:52:43.380
Yeah, where she gets to clumsily wreck his experiment.

791
00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:53.280
And he gets angry at her and, you know, there's an instant chemistry and, and I guess in this case, you know that he's the man that she's going to marry or not.

792
00:52:53.699 --> 00:52:55.739
It's this thing.

793
00:52:55.800 --> 00:53:00.659
You know, Santa is vastly more ambiguous about this story than we are.

794
00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:05.099
I really like it, but he thinks much like the other Solomon stories.

795
00:53:05.159 --> 00:53:07.079
It's a bit of a mixed bag.

796
00:53:07.139 --> 00:53:13.739
And he actually thinks that, um, Cliff is really horrible to Joe most of the time and shouts at her and stuff.

797
00:53:13.800 --> 00:53:16.320
But I have to think it's kind of like a rom-com thing.

798
00:53:16.380 --> 00:53:17.340
Do you know what I mean?

799
00:53:17.400 --> 00:53:18.900
Yeah, it's that.

800
00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:30.539
And also, it highlights the difference between that scene they're riffing on from Terror of the Autons and this, because in that scene, as soon as she realised she's done the wrong thing.

801
00:53:30.599 --> 00:53:38.519
Like Joe, Joe is cowed, physically cowed by the doctor in his tirade against her as a ham fisted bum vendor.

802
00:53:38.579 --> 00:53:42.119
Whereas brings back memories, doesn't it?

803
00:53:42.179 --> 00:53:45.900
Whereas when Cliff tells her off and says she's a bit cloth headed.

804
00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:49.500
She sort of does the whole whatever thing, just...

805
00:53:49.500 --> 00:53:52.440
And, yeah, she gives it back to her.

806
00:53:52.500 --> 00:53:53.880
And so it is the rom-com thing.

807
00:53:53.940 --> 00:53:56.699
You know, it's it's Spencer Tracy and Catherine Hepburn.

808
00:53:56.760 --> 00:54:01.980
It's some Carrie Grant and Catherine Hepburn.

809
00:54:02.039 --> 00:54:03.780
Or Doris Stane.

810
00:54:03.840 --> 00:54:05.760
Doris Day and Catherine Hepburn.

811
00:54:05.820 --> 00:54:10.320
It's really not quite as good as any of those, though, to be fair.

812
00:54:10.380 --> 00:54:12.000
It is still...

813
00:54:12.059 --> 00:54:14.519
Well, you know, it's still, well, it's still Doctor Who.

814
00:54:14.579 --> 00:54:20.940
Yeah, I think even Katie Manning would say that she's not Catherine Hepburn.

815
00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:22.199
Oh, she is.

816
00:54:22.260 --> 00:54:24.780
I don't think that's a fair criticism delay at anyone.

817
00:54:24.840 --> 00:54:26.219
You know, Gillian Anderson.

818
00:54:26.280 --> 00:54:28.199
I don't care how good you are in Bleak House.

819
00:54:28.260 --> 00:54:29.579
You're not Catherine Hepburn.

820
00:54:29.699 --> 00:54:32.519
So speaking of people who aren't Catherine Henley.

821
00:54:32.579 --> 00:54:35.340
The brigadier, it's in this story.

822
00:54:35.460 --> 00:54:43.320
And you started to say something about how much you liked him and Joe in that scene in episode one.

823
00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:46.260
Yes, he's driving his Mercedes. like, you do?

824
00:54:46.320 --> 00:54:48.179
1964 Mercedes, yes?

825
00:54:48.239 --> 00:54:48.539
Oh, really?

826
00:54:48.599 --> 00:54:49.199
Good on you.

827
00:54:49.260 --> 00:54:50.159
Yes, well done, bread.

828
00:54:50.159 --> 00:54:51.179
You've had a couple of years.

829
00:54:51.179 --> 00:54:52.320
How do you know about cars, Brandon?

830
00:54:52.380 --> 00:54:53.639
I know, it's weird.

831
00:54:53.639 --> 00:54:55.019
Kind of dirty.

832
00:54:55.320 --> 00:55:03.960
But, you know, he's got a really good part to play in this, you know, dropping her off down there and I think he's also, isn't he talking to Stevens in that?

833
00:55:04.079 --> 00:55:04.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

834
00:55:04.860 --> 00:55:07.440
And he has that great conversation with all Jones the Milk.

835
00:55:07.500 --> 00:55:10.320
If you go out that way, you can't miss it, can you?

836
00:55:10.500 --> 00:55:33.480
Yeah, and then, of course, he, um, uh, back in unit headquarters, you know, he says, oh, the doctor's galavanting off on a, on a pleasure jaunt and in the comic book style that we're now used to, it cuts straight to the 3rd doctor being attacked by a huge tentacle and gurning face, you know, so, you know, um, Barry Letts and Terence Sticks are having a whale of a time.

837
00:55:33.539 --> 00:55:42.059
I actually think that that scene is really clever because it is played for comedy and by the time the doctor gets back to the Tartar after he retrieves the thing.

838
00:55:42.119 --> 00:55:51.300
It's just people offscreen throwing things at the TARDIS and like there's an assagai and then there's a big tentacle and all of that and it's all really deeply silly.

839
00:55:51.360 --> 00:55:53.039
I don't disagree with you.

840
00:55:53.039 --> 00:56:00.360
But, but I think it's making a serious point, which is that the real reason the doctor wanted to go to Metabela Street.

841
00:56:00.420 --> 00:56:03.900
He really just wanted to take Joe to Metabelis 3.

842
00:56:04.079 --> 00:56:06.300
And when she's not there, it's not fun.

843
00:56:06.360 --> 00:56:07.619
You know?

844
00:56:08.519 --> 00:56:11.039
So, you know, and they play it up by being silly about it.

845
00:56:11.099 --> 00:56:12.480
But I think that's it.

846
00:56:12.539 --> 00:56:14.400
You know, he's offered her all of space and time.

847
00:56:14.460 --> 00:56:22.500
He's determined not to, you know, reveal that he knows that she's leaving or be upset or be too manipulative or anything like that.

848
00:56:22.559 --> 00:56:27.539
So he sort of goes off petulantly to Metabilist 3 anyway, but he has a terrible time.

849
00:56:28.440 --> 00:56:31.920
It's actually a really well-judged piece of comedy.

850
00:56:31.980 --> 00:56:38.460
Whereas as much as I love the Time Monster, most of the comedy in that is too much.

851
00:56:38.519 --> 00:56:39.360
You know?

852
00:56:39.480 --> 00:56:40.679
is not funny.

853
00:56:40.739 --> 00:56:41.880
That too.

854
00:56:41.940 --> 00:56:48.659
Whereas this, it's amusing and also dangerous at the same time, which is which is a really hard balance to do.

855
00:56:48.719 --> 00:56:55.199
I'm kind of amazed by that essentially silent performance that pertly puts in.

856
00:56:55.260 --> 00:56:57.239
He doesn't utter a word on metabilist 3.

857
00:56:57.420 --> 00:56:58.199
It's all in his face.

858
00:56:58.260 --> 00:57:01.920
He does get to Gurn again as a tentacle is reversed off him.

859
00:57:02.880 --> 00:57:10.320
But also it kind of goes against that thing that he was saying last year where the doctor shouldn't be afraid of anything.

860
00:57:10.380 --> 00:57:16.139
Whereas he does some pretty good scared acting on this planet, especially when those 2 giant bird feet.

861
00:57:17.099 --> 00:57:27.360
And I'm going to find a clip to show the listeners, possibly the worst monster fight from a Godzilla film ever, that the giant feat in that remind me.

862
00:57:27.420 --> 00:57:28.440
I'm not going to say anymore.

863
00:57:28.500 --> 00:57:30.420
They thought I'm just going to give you the link to show people.

864
00:57:30.659 --> 00:57:40.500
And it also means it in itself is funny, but it gives us the best gag in my opinion of the story where the phone is ringing forever.

865
00:57:40.559 --> 00:57:42.000
And it's not the brig on the other end.

866
00:57:42.059 --> 00:57:44.519
The brig has said to the receptionist, look, just keep trying.

867
00:57:44.639 --> 00:57:45.960
The phone's drinking forever.

868
00:57:46.019 --> 00:57:46.619
Stellar.

869
00:57:46.619 --> 00:57:47.219
It's stellar.

870
00:57:47.280 --> 00:57:48.599
Stellar, the receptionist.

871
00:57:48.659 --> 00:57:51.960
And then the TARDIS arrives. phone's to ring.

872
00:57:52.019 --> 00:57:52.860
The doctor steps out.

873
00:57:52.920 --> 00:57:56.519
He's dazed for a second, realises the phone is ringing, picks it up and says, hello, yes.

874
00:57:56.579 --> 00:57:58.199
Yes, I'll speak to anyone.

875
00:57:58.559 --> 00:58:06.900
You know, I think, and it just shows Pertwee's talent for comedy because he doesn't play it as a funny line.

876
00:58:06.960 --> 00:58:09.539
It a natural line, which is only funny because of the situation.

877
00:58:09.599 --> 00:58:14.940
I really like the fact that in this story he gets to dress up as a milkman and as a washerwoman.

878
00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:18.960
He wants, you know, this comedy, I love the milkman performance, actually.

879
00:58:19.019 --> 00:58:21.480
I think it's really funny and it's really really good.

880
00:58:21.539 --> 00:58:24.960
And he's playing it much older. hilarious fake moustache.

881
00:58:25.019 --> 00:58:26.820
And then he gets the comedy with a fake moustache.

882
00:58:26.880 --> 00:58:31.860
You know, he's in the building and an announcement goes, there's a milkman loose in the building, blah, blah, blah.

883
00:58:31.920 --> 00:58:37.739
And so he gets into it into a cupboard and he takes the moustache off and it sticks to one finger.

884
00:58:37.800 --> 00:58:43.559
And so he pulls it off the finger with the other finger and it sticks to the other finger and he's sort of desperately trying to get it.

885
00:58:43.619 --> 00:58:53.099
You know, just like when he gets to do sort of silly comedy and when he's not just, you know, this sort of stayed rigid, you know, rather unlikeable figure, I think he's great.

886
00:58:53.159 --> 00:58:54.119
He's terrific as that.

887
00:58:54.179 --> 00:58:55.500
He's terrific as the washerwoman.

888
00:58:55.559 --> 00:58:57.420
Sorry, I meant the cleaning lady.

889
00:58:57.539 --> 00:58:58.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

890
00:58:58.500 --> 00:59:06.659
The cleaning lady and the cleaning lady thing where he does the sort of camp voice with Mike and then tries to be all blokey for a second.

891
00:59:06.719 --> 00:59:08.340
Now, Mike, let's talk about something.

892
00:59:08.400 --> 00:59:13.139
And then someone comes in and asks her how her husband's hippies or something.

893
00:59:13.199 --> 00:59:15.539
Oh, lovely.

894
00:59:15.539 --> 00:59:16.679
That's right.

895
00:59:16.739 --> 00:59:18.239
It's just terrific.

896
00:59:18.300 --> 00:59:22.920
And all that stuff is really good and it's nice to see him sort of relaxed enough to do it.

897
00:59:23.099 --> 00:59:28.619
This story is often attributed to patronising the Welsh.

898
00:59:28.679 --> 00:59:36.539
When in fact, the Welsh characters actually come up a lot better than than the English ones.

899
00:59:36.599 --> 00:59:40.500
It is a bit patronising in that, you know, people say, boy, and what have you.

900
00:59:40.559 --> 00:59:45.840
But at the same time, people try to condescend them and they're like, no, you're not condescending me.

901
00:59:45.900 --> 00:59:46.440
I a minor.

902
00:59:46.500 --> 00:59:47.099
I know what I'm doing.

903
00:59:47.159 --> 00:59:51.300
I think there is a bigger problem than that, and it is with the politics of it.

904
00:59:51.360 --> 00:59:56.519
And again, I just think, you know, not giving you a big political story to Malcolm Hulk is a big mistake.

905
00:59:56.639 --> 01:00:03.119
And that's a mistake that'll be rectified because he does get to go back and fix this in the normalisation, which is extremely good.

906
01:00:03.179 --> 01:00:05.099
But it's the opening scene.

907
01:00:05.159 --> 01:00:10.260
So the opening scene has Stevens, Dr. Stevens, Dr. Stevens, they're all doctor in the novelisation.

908
01:00:10.320 --> 01:00:12.420
I think it's just Stevens in the show.

909
01:00:12.780 --> 01:00:21.420
And he arrives and he's talking to a group of minors and he's talking to a group of the hippies from the Nahach.

910
01:00:21.480 --> 01:00:41.400
And this is in a historical context where widespread closing of coal mines, which, you know, has preceded this and will continue, causes massive widespread devastation in places like Wales, and, you know, like completely up ends entire communities and things.

911
01:00:41.460 --> 01:00:46.199
And so in a sense representing that on the screen is kind of interesting.

912
01:00:46.260 --> 01:00:48.059
But what you have.

913
01:00:48.119 --> 01:00:49.260
And I think it's a lapse.

914
01:00:49.320 --> 01:00:51.599
I don't think it's something that infects the entire story.

915
01:00:51.659 --> 01:00:56.820
But you've got Professor Jones there for a moment lecturing the minors.

916
01:00:56.880 --> 01:00:57.719
Do you know what I mean?

917
01:00:57.780 --> 01:01:09.900
Like telling the miners off for wanting to participate in an industry that causes so much pollution and they have a little fight and Dave, the miner, sort of yells at Professor Jones and stuff.

918
01:01:09.960 --> 01:01:15.659
And it's kind of like, you know, we're middle class people and we know better than you.

919
01:01:15.719 --> 01:01:16.679
Do you know what I mean?

920
01:01:16.739 --> 01:01:25.079
And we're here to tell you why your chosen way of life is wrong or, you know, that you're to blame or that you're complicit in all of this sort of stuff.

921
01:01:25.139 --> 01:01:29.280
Now, Santa really rides with this and thinks it's a big political problem in the story.

922
01:01:29.280 --> 01:01:36.239
And I think that that's what people are talking about rather than the comedy accents when they're talking about patronising the Welsh.

923
01:01:36.360 --> 01:01:46.260
But I have to say, the mine has actually disappeared from the story pretty much after Joe and the doctor get rescued from the mine.

924
01:01:46.320 --> 01:01:58.440
And in the meantime, there are a lot of scenes between like Dave in particular and Professor Jones where they're quite warm towards each other and they're working together and part of the sort of same community.

925
01:01:58.559 --> 01:02:12.960
So, look, there is something, there is something slightly middle class about the hippies slightly, terrifyingly middle class about the hippies, but I'm not entirely sold on the idea that the minors are being heavily patronised to you.

926
01:02:13.019 --> 01:02:14.039
No, no.

927
01:02:14.099 --> 01:02:15.480
I mean, I don't think they are either.

928
01:02:15.539 --> 01:02:16.920
And I think...

929
01:02:16.920 --> 01:02:21.360
I don't think it's an oversight on the part of Robert Sloman.

930
01:02:21.480 --> 01:02:31.860
I think what he does in the 1st episode is he makes the audience aware that this argument exists that, yes, we need to have cleaner energy, but what about the people who are working in the mines?

931
01:02:31.920 --> 01:02:33.119
What about their livelihoods?

932
01:02:33.179 --> 01:02:34.380
How are they going to live?

933
01:02:34.920 --> 01:02:40.559
And I don't think it's something he can answer within this story because then you wouldn't have a story.

934
01:02:40.619 --> 01:02:42.119
You just have a polemic.

935
01:02:42.179 --> 01:02:45.239
So I think he sort of brings it up and says, look, I am aware of this.

936
01:02:45.300 --> 01:02:49.679
This is happening in this world, but it is too big an issue to be solved here.

937
01:02:49.739 --> 01:03:05.039
And I think in episode 2 and 3, when um, Telf the teeth is working with Professor Jones, I think that's sort of his effort to say, you know, Okay, Professor Jones wants everything 100% renewable energy and no pollution.

938
01:03:05.760 --> 01:03:15.480
Stevens wants great big fat profits and global chemicals to take over the world and therefore produces this sludge and that's terrible.

939
01:03:15.539 --> 01:03:16.739
Coal is somewhere in the middle.

940
01:03:16.980 --> 01:03:20.639
So I'll, you know, I'll work with these people.

941
01:03:20.699 --> 01:03:30.900
And yeah, it's, I think it's quite a complex view of the morality in that it doesn't attempt to provide any specific answer.

942
01:03:30.960 --> 01:03:40.199
See, I actually think probably what it's doing is carelessly glossing over that and just saying being a big pollution is evil polemic.

943
01:03:40.260 --> 01:03:48.539
I'm not sure that it's quite as subtle as, as um, you're giving it credit for, and I guess that's what people see as problematic.

944
01:03:48.599 --> 01:03:57.840
We can't look at it now without thinking how disastrous, you know, continuing to dig up coal is now, you know, and how important it's been for Australia's economy.

945
01:03:57.900 --> 01:03:58.619
Do you know what I mean?

946
01:03:58.679 --> 01:04:03.179
And all of it is sort of dated by global warming and that kind of thing.

947
01:04:03.239 --> 01:04:23.099
I mean, Stevens is proudly proclaiming that you can get more petrol and things from an amount of crude oil with this process and there's that weird scene where they're cutting between Stevens explaining to the brigadier and Professor Jones explaining to the doctor about the problems with the Stevens, with the Stevens process.

948
01:04:23.159 --> 01:04:23.880
Do you know what I mean?

949
01:04:23.940 --> 01:04:25.440
But they're still burning up the oil.

950
01:04:25.500 --> 01:04:26.880
You know, it's still a problem.

951
01:04:26.940 --> 01:04:28.019
We're still creating pollution.

952
01:04:28.320 --> 01:04:39.000
As you say, at the time, in Wales, like these coal mines were closing down and people were losing their jobs and losing their livelihoods, and it was because deposits of oil had been found.

953
01:04:39.059 --> 01:04:43.139
And it's this weird thing.

954
01:04:43.199 --> 01:04:47.219
And I think Stephen's lying about, if that's not progress, I don't know what it is.

955
01:04:47.280 --> 01:04:49.260
Yeah, Robert Slowman is sending it up a bit.

956
01:04:49.320 --> 01:04:52.199
It's like, we're going to run out of one type of natural resource.

957
01:04:52.260 --> 01:04:55.860
Well, if we use the other natural resource, we won't run out of the 1st one.

958
01:04:55.920 --> 01:04:57.300
See, it'll never run.

959
01:04:57.360 --> 01:04:58.139
It'll never run out.

960
01:04:58.199 --> 01:05:05.639
You know, it's that old line about tax avoidance, like buying a boat to avoid paying tax because what are you going to pay tax on?

961
01:05:05.699 --> 01:05:06.360
You just bought a boat.

962
01:05:06.420 --> 01:05:10.980
I do think, you know, Robert Sloan is getting some social and economic commentary in here.

963
01:05:11.039 --> 01:05:15.659
Yeah, not quite on the same level as Malcolm Hawk, but he is really trying to pull his socks up.

964
01:05:15.719 --> 01:05:34.320
In terms of the pollution, watching that 1st episode, I wonder if any viewers at the time, thought that perhaps there was a returning monster because early on Professor Jones mentions and places great emphasis on, the byproduct must be some sort of liquid plastic.

965
01:05:35.280 --> 01:05:38.760
Right, so you're thinking...

966
01:05:38.820 --> 01:05:42.480
Yeah, I mean, could it be a deliberate red herring?

967
01:05:42.599 --> 01:05:48.360
Considering that every story this year has had some kind of throwback.

968
01:05:48.420 --> 01:05:53.039
It's not, of course, and it probably isn't, but it's just a nicer throwaway.

969
01:05:53.099 --> 01:06:00.599
There's some other pollution that's going on in the story and Stevens and his heavy, the chauffeur, they're smoking cigars.

970
01:06:00.659 --> 01:06:03.119
The brigadier, smoking, is on together.

971
01:06:03.239 --> 01:06:10.619
Well, so there's this character, uh, Professor uh, Mr. Fell, Dr. Fell, who comes in.

972
01:06:10.679 --> 01:06:18.420
I think it's like episode 2 and Hinks, who is Steven's driver, is sitting on Stephen's desk.

973
01:06:18.480 --> 01:06:24.480
Yes, it's lighting his cigarette. and that kind of thing. and they look really guilty when he walks in.

974
01:06:24.599 --> 01:06:28.920
Yeah, and what's amazing is Hinks doesn't seem to be hypnotised.

975
01:06:28.980 --> 01:06:33.900
He doesn't go through anything that the other characters go through when they're hypnotised of self-doubt or anything.

976
01:06:33.960 --> 01:06:36.840
It just like, oh, yeah, you know, I'll go sort him out for you.

977
01:06:36.900 --> 01:06:37.920
He's just a heavy.

978
01:06:37.980 --> 01:06:40.079
And I always find that very interesting.

979
01:06:40.139 --> 01:06:42.780
I think I've commented on that before with some poetly stories.

980
01:06:42.840 --> 01:06:47.760
You have some characters who are forced and coerced into doing evil things, and then you have other characters who are just nasty people.

981
01:06:47.820 --> 01:06:59.639
I really like the fact that the brigadier and Stevens have a confrontation in episode 3 and the brigadier, given this backbone, the characters going through a reformation or a renaissance.

982
01:06:59.699 --> 01:07:01.679
It's really good to see Nick Gibbon stuff to do.

983
01:07:01.739 --> 01:07:03.900
And, you know, he has to talk to the PM.

984
01:07:04.019 --> 01:07:06.539
Yeah, Jeremy, Jeremy.

985
01:07:06.599 --> 01:07:07.679
Head of the SDP.

986
01:07:07.739 --> 01:07:08.400
I think...

987
01:07:08.460 --> 01:07:10.860
And of course, he's back on form by episode four, where he blows up the mine.

988
01:07:10.920 --> 01:07:16.860
Again, I mean, he blows up the mine under orders from Stevens, doesn't he?

989
01:07:16.920 --> 01:07:18.420
I mean, Stevens wants it blown up.

990
01:07:18.480 --> 01:07:20.579
And he has to do what Stephen says.

991
01:07:20.639 --> 01:07:32.699
So he's in a difficult position because politically he's got to support big business because, you know, that's his kind of social role here, you know, the government supports big business.

992
01:07:32.760 --> 01:07:35.639
He's kind of an agent of the government in this case.

993
01:07:35.760 --> 01:07:38.219
And so he is put in a strange position.

994
01:07:38.280 --> 01:07:42.420
He's also, we have to assume that he's kind of politically conservative.

995
01:07:42.599 --> 01:07:44.039
Do you know what I mean?

996
01:07:44.099 --> 01:07:58.559
He's slightly suspicious of all of this, but the way that he enjoys his interaction with the people in the nut hutch, the constant surprise at the fact that the fungus tastes like actual food.

997
01:07:58.619 --> 01:08:14.460
Yeah, you know, just the warmth and there's there's 2 big parties, I think, in the story and there's one at the end of episode 3 and one at the end of episode 6 and they joke and the brigadier is really, feels really welcome and they're drinking and stuff.

998
01:08:14.519 --> 01:08:27.539
And, you know, like, the world of the nut hatch, like the nut hatch is a scientific research base like Dr. Lawrence's base in the Silurians or the Inferno project.

999
01:08:27.600 --> 01:08:29.939
And so is global chemicals.

1000
01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:33.539
You know, it's a research based, they're looking into this way of refining oil.

1001
01:08:33.600 --> 01:08:41.399
But one research base is full of people who eat and drink and play music and laugh and tell jokes.

1002
01:08:41.460 --> 01:08:46.380
And the other is full of men in suits who are all hypnotised and hurling themselves out of windows.

1003
01:08:46.500 --> 01:08:57.420
And like it's not very subtle and stuff, but I like how the goodness of those characters is represented by their ability to enjoy a well-prepared meal.

1004
01:08:57.479 --> 01:08:58.380
Do you know what I mean?

1005
01:08:58.439 --> 01:08:59.579
I think it's just to.

1006
01:08:59.699 --> 01:09:00.180
Yeah, yeah.

1007
01:09:00.239 --> 01:09:03.840
And you're absolutely right in the way that the brigadier is so open-minded with them.

1008
01:09:03.899 --> 01:09:06.479
Like when he finds out what everyone's doing there, he's like, really?

1009
01:09:06.539 --> 01:09:08.340
She's doing that. doing this.

1010
01:09:08.460 --> 01:09:09.840
Yeah.

1011
01:09:09.899 --> 01:09:16.199
Now, on the other hand, in global chemicals, we do have a sympathetic character, Mr. Elgin.

1012
01:09:16.260 --> 01:09:17.340
Yes.

1013
01:09:17.399 --> 01:09:19.140
He's sort of sympathetic.

1014
01:09:19.199 --> 01:09:22.859
He's got a weird moustache and he is kind of annoying.

1015
01:09:22.920 --> 01:09:24.239
He has an annoying demeanour.

1016
01:09:24.300 --> 01:09:25.020
Yeah.

1017
01:09:25.079 --> 01:09:27.479
And apparently on set he was quite annoying as well.

1018
01:09:27.539 --> 01:09:34.439
But what ends up happening is he gets brainwashed in episode four, I think.

1019
01:09:34.500 --> 01:09:36.239
And then we don't see him again.

1020
01:09:36.239 --> 01:09:39.960
And it's because the actor gets parotonitis and can't come back for the last 2 weeks.

1021
01:09:40.020 --> 01:09:46.859
So they have to quickly get Roy Skelton in. and he gets to be the same.

1022
01:09:46.920 --> 01:09:54.060
And, you know, like I actually don't mind that it's Roy Skelton, because that character, the Elgin character is kind of human.

1023
01:09:54.119 --> 01:09:57.300
He's certainly the most human person at working at global chemicals.

1024
01:09:57.300 --> 01:10:01.260
And it's, you don't have to be, you know, like a terribly moral person.

1025
01:10:01.319 --> 01:10:08.579
You don't have to be Gandhi or Jesus or something to object to kind of flushing human beings down a pipe of waste.

1026
01:10:08.760 --> 01:10:10.680
You know, I mean, he's not a moral giant or anything.

1027
01:10:10.739 --> 01:10:28.079
But he does at least react in a sort of horrified human way to this and, you know, like he's captured by Stevens when he's about to go out and say, you know, he's about to report to the police, the fact that they're, you know, he's about to leave and tell someone what's going on at global chemicals.

1028
01:10:28.140 --> 01:10:34.859
So I wouldn't have really wanted him killed at the end of episode five, which is what happens to whatever that character's called.

1029
01:10:34.920 --> 01:10:38.939
The thing is, though, the only conclusion to come to is he's killed at the end of episode four.

1030
01:10:39.420 --> 01:10:44.760
No, I like to think he goes for a little lie down somewhere and then, oh, yeah.

1031
01:10:44.819 --> 01:10:46.439
He's out in a country house with Dodo.

1032
01:10:46.500 --> 01:10:48.539
He's out of Cachiosa Dodo recovering.

1033
01:10:48.600 --> 01:10:49.319
Yeah.

1034
01:10:49.319 --> 01:10:53.760
Yeah, actually, maybe he's still in his office when the whole building...

1035
01:10:53.819 --> 01:10:59.220
In terms of him not being able to perform the rest of the show because he had peritonitis.

1036
01:10:59.279 --> 01:11:07.380
The thing about him was he was apparently bugging the rest of the cars the whole time expounding on the health benefits of eating raw garlic.

1037
01:11:07.439 --> 01:11:10.319
And then he goes and gets sick.

1038
01:11:10.800 --> 01:11:14.760
Well, yes, that's But also serendipity.

1039
01:11:14.819 --> 01:11:16.619
Yeah, that's very...

1040
01:11:16.680 --> 01:11:24.779
But also from a plot point of view, he seems to be Steven's right hand man, but he hasn't had any sort of processing at all.

1041
01:11:24.899 --> 01:11:27.060
You know, he's Stephen's right-hand man.

1042
01:11:27.119 --> 01:11:28.920
Surely Stevens would have known, oh, yeah, you know what?

1043
01:11:28.979 --> 01:11:31.500
He's going to start objecting to us doing all these horrible things.

1044
01:11:31.619 --> 01:11:34.199
Maybe I should process him now before he becomes a problem.

1045
01:11:34.260 --> 01:11:36.359
The only reason that Mr. Fell.

1046
01:11:36.420 --> 01:11:40.260
Has to throw himself off a building. fell.

1047
01:11:40.319 --> 01:11:41.819
I know that's crazy, isn't it?

1048
01:11:41.880 --> 01:11:42.899
Oh yes.

1049
01:11:42.960 --> 01:11:45.420
So what happened to George or whatever his name was?

1050
01:11:45.479 --> 01:11:46.199
Well, he fell.

1051
01:11:46.260 --> 01:11:53.340
The thing is, though, it was completely coincidental because originally he was Mr. Bell, but it turns out there was a Mr. Bell.

1052
01:11:53.399 --> 01:11:57.239
There was one single Mr. Bell, who worked for a chemical company, so they couldn't use that name.

1053
01:11:57.300 --> 01:11:59.039
So they changed it to fell.

1054
01:11:59.100 --> 01:11:59.340
Anyways.

1055
01:11:59.399 --> 01:12:01.260
They use Mr. Bell in the novelisation, actually.

1056
01:12:01.319 --> 01:12:01.859
Oh there you go.

1057
01:12:01.920 --> 01:12:09.479
Speaking of people, Mr. Fell wouldn't have had to throw himself off the balcony, if Elgin hadn't messed with his programming.

1058
01:12:09.539 --> 01:12:12.000
But of course, then the doctor and Joe would be dead.

1059
01:12:12.060 --> 01:12:13.260
So, you know, swings and roundabouts.

1060
01:12:13.560 --> 01:12:30.779
Well, speaking of people working for global chemicals, never so too, a character who we haven't seen for a long time is mentioned, Mike Yates, and of course, he does turn up in episode 4 as the man on the inside, in his inevitable James Bond sort of style.

1061
01:12:30.840 --> 01:12:32.279
But do you know what's brilliant about this?

1062
01:12:32.340 --> 01:12:33.300
It's a twist.

1063
01:12:33.359 --> 01:12:43.680
In episode four, over and over again in a per twi story, the man from the ministry turns up, we instruct people to blow things up and to get shouted at by per twig.

1064
01:12:43.739 --> 01:12:46.680
And that's exactly what happens here, only this time it's mine.

1065
01:12:46.739 --> 01:12:48.000
And he does get shout.

1066
01:12:48.060 --> 01:12:48.300
He does.

1067
01:12:48.359 --> 01:12:52.739
Yeah, perhaps he gets a good old shout in, one like we haven't seen since season eight.

1068
01:12:52.739 --> 01:12:54.779
I love it when he goes, hi.

1069
01:12:54.779 --> 01:12:59.159
At Mike, and then Mike does that comedy collapse on the floor.

1070
01:12:59.220 --> 01:13:00.000
Oh my goodness.

1071
01:13:00.119 --> 01:13:02.100
It's very well done, I thought.

1072
01:13:02.159 --> 01:13:03.479
But is it the character doing it?

1073
01:13:03.539 --> 01:13:06.119
because poetry tells him to stop the horseplay and get up.

1074
01:13:06.180 --> 01:13:07.079
He does.

1075
01:13:07.140 --> 01:13:09.779
Yeah, yeah. like so Pertwee thinks that Mike's bunging it on.

1076
01:13:09.840 --> 01:13:11.579
That's not, he's not really fainting.

1077
01:13:11.640 --> 01:13:15.659
And you know, it's just like what happened to Paul Mike, in mind of evil.

1078
01:13:15.720 --> 01:13:19.140
He got strapped to a chair and menaced by Rog.

1079
01:13:19.439 --> 01:13:29.520
And Benton finally turns up too in episode 4 as well. on location to deal with all of the maggots, you know?

1080
01:13:29.579 --> 01:13:38.399
And can I just say that we've been talking about this story for about 3 hours and that's the 1st use of the word magnet, I think.

1081
01:13:38.460 --> 01:13:40.920
And this is the story with the maggots.

1082
01:13:40.979 --> 01:13:42.720
This is the story that everyone remembers.

1083
01:13:42.840 --> 01:13:45.239
Yeah, we just had cakes with maggots.

1084
01:13:45.300 --> 01:13:51.000
I have a life-size maggot here made by friend of the podcast, Gillian Brent, which has been photographed with Katie Manning.

1085
01:13:51.060 --> 01:13:52.140
Over and over again.

1086
01:13:52.199 --> 01:13:52.619
Yes.

1087
01:13:52.619 --> 01:13:55.680
And they are so extraordinary, aren't they?

1088
01:13:55.739 --> 01:13:57.720
They're really terrifying and it's that scene.

1089
01:13:57.779 --> 01:14:13.739
I think the thing that everyone remembers is, Joe goes down in mind with bird at the end of episode one, and then they wander together, they're investigating a glowy green man, and so the 1st glowy green thing that Bert sees, he puts his hand in, which is kind of, well, there you go.

1090
01:14:13.800 --> 01:14:24.659
But then, you know, at the end of the episode, we get that giant, you know, the doctor and Joe are reunited and it's a giant pool of maggots that they have to punt their way through.

1091
01:14:24.720 --> 01:14:27.180
And it's real magots, isn't it?

1092
01:14:27.239 --> 01:14:28.800
There's a shot of real maggots.

1093
01:14:28.859 --> 01:14:29.520
It's really disgusting.

1094
01:14:29.579 --> 01:14:31.560
It really is gross.

1095
01:14:31.619 --> 01:14:39.840
I mean, there's some shots that just don't work like going down the mine shaft like on the lift and then as they're punting through it, it's pretty ropey when you watch it now.

1096
01:14:39.899 --> 01:14:41.340
Terrible CSO.

1097
01:14:41.340 --> 01:14:42.000
Terrible screens.

1098
01:14:42.060 --> 01:14:42.899
Terrible CSO.

1099
01:14:42.960 --> 01:14:46.140
Yeah, Barry Letts did not like the punting through shot.

1100
01:14:46.199 --> 01:14:47.340
Oh, it's not good at all.

1101
01:14:47.399 --> 01:14:49.140
But it's so memorable though.

1102
01:14:49.199 --> 01:14:50.100
It is.

1103
01:14:50.159 --> 01:14:51.720
And just the maggots moving.

1104
01:14:51.720 --> 01:15:06.600
And, you know, the way they move and whether it's Joe and Cliff trapped in the outside little mine thing or whether it's in the house where Joe's sort of sitting there by the fire or whatever it is and it's moving and you think it's going to get it.

1105
01:15:06.659 --> 01:15:09.779
You remembered this stuff. you know, it's iconic.

1106
01:15:09.840 --> 01:15:11.579
And they have, what do they have?

1107
01:15:11.640 --> 01:15:13.319
Like, are they dog heads or something?

1108
01:15:13.380 --> 01:15:15.960
Like, they've got real animal heads.

1109
01:15:16.020 --> 01:15:16.739
Yeah, yeah.

1110
01:15:16.800 --> 01:15:18.060
I think it was similar to the drash eggs.

1111
01:15:18.180 --> 01:15:18.899
Probably a fox.

1112
01:15:19.260 --> 01:15:22.800
Yeah, yeah, like the skull inside the puppet.

1113
01:15:22.859 --> 01:15:25.979
So the mouth opens and it's got like canine teeth and stuff.

1114
01:15:26.039 --> 01:15:29.579
No maggot wouldn't have that, obviously, but they look really good.

1115
01:15:29.640 --> 01:15:30.539
Yeah, yeah.

1116
01:15:30.539 --> 01:15:31.380
The puppets are great.

1117
01:15:31.500 --> 01:15:37.020
And what helps most about it is they went down the road of having 3 different types.

1118
01:15:37.140 --> 01:15:39.359
They had the static maggots for background shots.

1119
01:15:39.420 --> 01:15:47.279
They have the rod puppets, which they could move, move along on the set through holes and covered with gravel.

1120
01:15:47.340 --> 01:15:51.180
And then they had, for close-ups, actual hand operated puppets.

1121
01:15:51.239 --> 01:15:56.880
And they cut between them so well, and especially in episode 6 when the doctor and Benton.

1122
01:15:56.939 --> 01:15:59.399
Here, little naggot, come and get you dindins.

1123
01:15:59.399 --> 01:16:00.359
Here, kitty, kitty.

1124
01:16:00.420 --> 01:16:01.560
Sergeant Benton now.

1125
01:16:01.619 --> 01:16:12.840
But, you know, when they do that, what they do is they have 2 hand puppet ones and they have one on the right of the screen and on the left of the screen, but just before that, they've had a shot with 2 of the rod puppet ones.

1126
01:16:12.899 --> 01:16:20.399
So when you it just looks like you're cutting to a close-up, it's so effectively done, they've really taken the care to try and make them look as alive as possible.

1127
01:16:20.460 --> 01:16:32.880
Yes, but what they haven't taken care of is, of course, the actual shots of the doctor driving, which are these wonderful model shots of a toy car with little toy things.

1128
01:16:32.880 --> 01:16:34.979
I'm nominating this for...

1129
01:16:34.979 --> 01:16:36.119
Now, the Jenny Lad moments.

1130
01:16:36.119 --> 01:16:44.640
And then, yes, then we cut to like Benton and the doctor, you know, the outside shop, but then they're CSO in the car, like...

1131
01:16:44.640 --> 01:16:45.720
They're CSO all the way through.

1132
01:16:45.779 --> 01:16:52.739
There's these scenes of the brigadier and things standing in front of a yellow screen all through episodes 5 and six. which are terrible.

1133
01:16:52.800 --> 01:16:56.279
And they were, it's not a matter of, they ran out of time on the day.

1134
01:16:56.340 --> 01:17:05.220
They actually had always planned those for CSO because some of the 1st location work done in that location was the scenic photographer taking the photo for the CSO background.

1135
01:17:05.279 --> 01:17:15.060
And I think it was precisely because they had run out of time doing location stuff before that they decided, okay, these little cutaways, which are only 2 or 3 lines, let's do them with CSO.

1136
01:17:15.119 --> 01:17:16.260
It's a questionable decision.

1137
01:17:16.319 --> 01:17:17.699
It is, but...

1138
01:17:17.699 --> 01:17:19.199
I would say a bad decision.

1139
01:17:19.260 --> 01:17:19.619
Yes.

1140
01:17:19.680 --> 01:17:22.560
One special effect that is very good in this story, Todd.

1141
01:17:22.619 --> 01:17:26.460
Even if the model driving through the quarry isn't.

1142
01:17:26.520 --> 01:17:28.979
We have front axial projection.

1143
01:17:29.039 --> 01:17:32.819
So, Brendan, what is front axial production?

1144
01:17:32.880 --> 01:17:38.340
Well, it's a special paint and inside it, a little tiny glass beads.

1145
01:17:38.399 --> 01:17:43.020
Here it's used to represent the green depth spreading across the skin.

1146
01:17:43.079 --> 01:17:44.939
So when it's painted on the skin.

1147
01:17:45.000 --> 01:17:51.779
What happens is when you shine a light directly on it, it reflects the light as if the light is glowing out of the paint.

1148
01:17:51.840 --> 01:17:55.439
So they shone a green light on it, it turns green.

1149
01:17:55.500 --> 01:17:59.039
Did they actually do it for the end of the metabolus crystal as well?

1150
01:17:59.100 --> 01:18:01.500
I actually was wondering whether they did...

1151
01:18:01.560 --> 01:18:02.699
Like blue pulsing light.

1152
01:18:02.880 --> 01:18:06.060
So there is a blue pulsing light that's actually superimposed upon the end of that.

1153
01:18:06.119 --> 01:18:08.699
But the end of it also glows as well.

1154
01:18:08.760 --> 01:18:10.199
I don't actually know to be honest with you.

1155
01:18:10.260 --> 01:18:12.300
But it was...

1156
01:18:12.300 --> 01:18:13.079
What were they using it for?

1157
01:18:13.140 --> 01:18:14.279
They were using it for Kronos.

1158
01:18:14.340 --> 01:18:15.180
We did talk about that.

1159
01:18:15.239 --> 01:18:17.039
Yeah, they used they used it for Kronos as well.

1160
01:18:17.100 --> 01:18:19.079
And they will use it again next year.

1161
01:18:19.140 --> 01:18:21.659
Just a little bit of trivia about it.

1162
01:18:21.720 --> 01:18:27.779
The paint itself was developed by the 3M company who now make a range of adhesives.

1163
01:18:27.779 --> 01:18:28.739
And post-it notes.

1164
01:18:28.739 --> 01:18:29.880
And post-it notes as well.

1165
01:18:30.000 --> 01:18:35.579
And one of its developers was the exquisitely named Philip the Palm Quist.

1166
01:18:35.640 --> 01:18:37.020
Excellent.

1167
01:18:37.020 --> 01:18:45.899
Wow. who actually won an Oscar for it in 1969 for various services to film because it was used in such classics as 2001 a Space Odyssey.

1168
01:18:45.960 --> 01:18:47.520
That's brilliant.

1169
01:18:47.579 --> 01:18:49.560
That's our best trivia ever.

1170
01:18:49.859 --> 01:18:59.159
Also problematic in the location work for this is this story was meant to be another cooperation with the military.

1171
01:18:59.220 --> 01:19:03.779
So just like we had the sea devils and the mind of evil.

1172
01:19:03.840 --> 01:19:07.739
This was going to have cooperation with the Air Force for the air strike.

1173
01:19:07.859 --> 01:19:26.760
But since the sea devils, the armed forces had decided to do more direct promotion actually advertising, oh, look where the army, rather than the more subtle promotion of featuring the army, the Navy, or the Air Force in television programs, which they had to pay for the resources.

1174
01:19:26.819 --> 01:19:28.020
That was sort of the understanding.

1175
01:19:28.079 --> 01:19:36.060
The TV productions didn't pay the armed forces, the armed forces paid for their resources, and it was sort of an agreement of will cover that cost.

1176
01:19:36.119 --> 01:19:39.539
And yeah, so it was deemed too expensive for the Air Force to do that.

1177
01:19:39.600 --> 01:19:48.539
So instead of getting an air strike, we get a helicopter. single helicopter, dropping bombs, and exploding maggots, which were made of condoms filled with gasoline.

1178
01:19:48.600 --> 01:19:49.319
Terrific.

1179
01:19:49.319 --> 01:19:50.939
And we also get a giant fly.

1180
01:19:51.000 --> 01:19:54.359
I actually really like the giant flying.

1181
01:19:54.420 --> 01:19:55.380
I actually do too.

1182
01:19:55.439 --> 01:19:56.520
Well, then you go.

1183
01:19:56.579 --> 01:19:59.039
I know people going about it, but it's creepy.

1184
01:19:59.100 --> 01:20:00.180
Yeah, yeah.

1185
01:20:00.239 --> 01:20:04.439
And I think at least half of it has to be down to the great sound design.

1186
01:20:04.500 --> 01:20:16.800
So, you know, the BBC radiophonic workshop of possibly Dick Mills again in this case, creating a really great insect-like sound, but magnifying it, just like the beast has been magnified as well.

1187
01:20:16.859 --> 01:20:24.359
Although, as many have pointed out, the eggs that the fly lays seem to be bigger than its head.

1188
01:20:24.720 --> 01:20:29.699
Well, there's subsequent instances of that happening in the show as well.

1189
01:20:29.760 --> 01:20:33.239
So I think we can probably, we can probably wear that.

1190
01:20:33.300 --> 01:20:35.699
We haven't really talked about boss.

1191
01:20:35.760 --> 01:20:39.600
So after the maggots are dealt with, and the maggots are dealt with.

1192
01:20:39.659 --> 01:20:44.699
Again, in this symbolic way where the hippies fungus beats the corporations waste.

1193
01:20:44.760 --> 01:20:45.539
You know what I mean?

1194
01:20:45.600 --> 01:20:52.680
The hippie fungus is more powerful than the corporation's waste products. you know, sort of very unsubtle sort of symbolic thing.

1195
01:20:52.739 --> 01:21:04.140
And then we've got boss and just in case you weren't getting the subtext, you know, the homicidal psychedelic computer that runs this entire corporation is called boss.

1196
01:21:04.199 --> 01:21:11.100
And so it sort of stands for the worst kind of um, aspects of sort of corporate capitalism, really.

1197
01:21:11.159 --> 01:21:12.119
Do you know what I mean?

1198
01:21:12.180 --> 01:21:14.640
Turning everyone into drones, working for them and all of that.

1199
01:21:14.699 --> 01:21:17.520
So again, it's not particularly subtle, is it?

1200
01:21:17.579 --> 01:21:26.520
But the whole thing has the potential to be slightly tiresome. is lifted enormously by John Darth, who is just terrific.

1201
01:21:26.579 --> 01:21:28.500
His voice work on this.

1202
01:21:28.560 --> 01:21:33.960
It could have been really tiresome, but it really does make the whole computer come alive, you know.

1203
01:21:34.020 --> 01:21:40.560
When you've got the whole computer around the doctor and it looks really dated down with all of its, you know, databanks and schools and all that sort of thing.

1204
01:21:40.680 --> 01:21:45.899
But I just love that whole, the big round circle with the voice wave thing.

1205
01:21:45.960 --> 01:21:47.760
It really is extremely effective.

1206
01:21:47.819 --> 01:21:48.960
He's funny, isn't he?

1207
01:21:49.020 --> 01:21:49.560
Yeah, yeah.

1208
01:21:49.560 --> 01:21:58.199
And when they, when they shoot the, um, the voice wave monitor from the side, they actually distort the wave slightly, so it looks like it's bulbous.

1209
01:21:58.260 --> 01:22:01.920
Like it looks like the screen is coming out like an old cathode ray screen.

1210
01:22:01.979 --> 01:22:12.300
I mean, John Dirk is so good that when we were watching it, Rod was convinced that at the end of episode 6, a wall panel would slide open and it would actually be the master, Wizard of Oz style talking through the computer.

1211
01:22:12.300 --> 01:22:21.720
And I had to tell him after that that no, Roger Delgado was killed shortly after this story was aired. during the airing of this story.

1212
01:22:21.779 --> 01:22:24.960
Yeah, but actually, you know, it's kind of like, that would have been pretty cool.

1213
01:22:25.020 --> 01:22:29.819
Yeah, price is right style, and you've won me, doctor.

1214
01:22:29.880 --> 01:22:30.300
Yes.

1215
01:22:30.359 --> 01:22:31.800
I am behind boss.

1216
01:22:31.859 --> 01:22:33.119
Oh, Nick.

1217
01:22:33.119 --> 01:22:35.460
Oh, Nick, zing boom.

1218
01:22:35.520 --> 01:22:36.720
It's wonderful, isn't it?

1219
01:22:36.779 --> 01:22:37.439
It's very cool.

1220
01:22:37.500 --> 01:22:38.399
And it's nice out.

1221
01:22:38.460 --> 01:22:40.680
It's all about efficiency and all that sort of thing.

1222
01:22:40.739 --> 01:22:43.500
But like, what's the deal with boss?

1223
01:22:43.560 --> 01:22:45.779
He's sort of flippant and a bit silly and stuff.

1224
01:22:45.840 --> 01:22:46.619
He's learned.

1225
01:22:46.680 --> 01:22:54.779
Yeah, because Stevens has programmed him to be inefficient for the sake of efficiency, but he still gets trapped in the sort of ancient Greek.

1226
01:22:54.840 --> 01:22:59.159
I'm lying, I'm telling the truth, kind of paradox, which...

1227
01:22:59.159 --> 01:23:00.300
Yeah, that's a bit crummy.

1228
01:23:00.359 --> 01:23:05.640
Yeah, a few years previously, he had also put paid to Harry Mudd's Androids in the Star Trek episode, I Mud.

1229
01:23:05.760 --> 01:23:06.840
Oh really?

1230
01:23:06.899 --> 01:23:07.560
Yeah, yeah.

1231
01:23:07.619 --> 01:23:12.420
I like the fact that boss is going to be linked up to 7 international computers.

1232
01:23:12.479 --> 01:23:14.640
Just like Votam.

1233
01:23:14.699 --> 01:23:17.399
Just like Votan, just like the inter intertubes.

1234
01:23:17.460 --> 01:23:18.000
Yes.

1235
01:23:18.060 --> 01:23:19.020
Yeah, it's amazing.

1236
01:23:19.079 --> 01:23:20.399
Interweb we have these days.

1237
01:23:20.460 --> 01:23:22.140
The electric internet.

1238
01:23:22.199 --> 01:23:24.420
There's some nice stuff that happens in episode five.

1239
01:23:24.479 --> 01:23:32.039
I love the fact that the doctor is giving Mike, the Christopher Metabulus to go into Global chemicals.

1240
01:23:32.039 --> 01:23:38.939
Global chemicals to try and unhypnotize people and there's a comedy moment where the brigadier is looking at the thing and he gets hypnotised.

1241
01:23:39.000 --> 01:23:44.340
Of course, Mike tries too hard as per always when he's in global chemicals and buggers it up again.

1242
01:23:44.399 --> 01:23:47.159
And he actually gets the cliffhanger to the end of that episode.

1243
01:23:47.279 --> 01:23:49.260
Yes, it's a Mike Imperil one.

1244
01:23:49.319 --> 01:23:49.800
Yeah.

1245
01:23:49.859 --> 01:23:54.720
So, you know, it's nice to see Mike Yates, you know, actually getting some things to do.

1246
01:23:54.779 --> 01:24:02.699
I think, I mean, this is the beginning of a plot for Mike because he'll appear twice next year, which actually goes somewhere.

1247
01:24:02.760 --> 01:24:04.920
You know, they weren't really using Mike.

1248
01:24:04.979 --> 01:24:07.560
He didn't turn up in the in the 3 doctors.

1249
01:24:07.619 --> 01:24:10.260
He's only in sort of 3 episodes this year.

1250
01:24:10.319 --> 01:24:17.520
So they do give him something substantial to kind of to move him on and make him a little bit more interesting.

1251
01:24:17.579 --> 01:24:19.319
And that'll be quite good next year.

1252
01:24:19.380 --> 01:24:21.239
I think that works right, somebody well.

1253
01:24:21.300 --> 01:24:31.979
Yeah, I do wonder if the reason they did that was that he was getting work elsewhere. as we mentioned last podcast, he was originally scripted to be in the 3 doctors.

1254
01:24:32.100 --> 01:24:34.020
But he had work elsewhere.

1255
01:24:34.079 --> 01:24:42.899
So I do have to wonder if the production officer said to him, look, next year we're going to give you sort of a little character plot line between a few stories.

1256
01:24:42.960 --> 01:24:45.000
Can you please make sure you're available on these dates?

1257
01:24:45.239 --> 01:24:48.060
And then we'll never trouble you again.

1258
01:24:48.119 --> 01:24:49.260
And then we'll have trouble you again.

1259
01:24:49.319 --> 01:24:53.159
But when Doctor Who actors complain about being underwritten.

1260
01:24:53.220 --> 01:24:56.640
Usually what they're complaining about is a lack of character development.

1261
01:24:56.699 --> 01:25:00.779
And, you know, I think that's what any actor wants if they're playing a regular character.

1262
01:25:00.840 --> 01:25:05.579
They don't just want to play it like a comic book stereotype and be exactly the same all the time.

1263
01:25:05.640 --> 01:25:07.439
They want to make it grow.

1264
01:25:07.500 --> 01:25:12.359
And the companions who look back on their time very fondly and talk about it.

1265
01:25:12.420 --> 01:25:14.399
People like Katie Banning.

1266
01:25:14.460 --> 01:25:28.439
People like Sophie Aldred, got character development, whereas actors who are promise character development, dingers, such as Carol Anne Ford, They're very fond of the people they worked with on the show, but they got very frustrated with the creative side of it.

1267
01:25:29.039 --> 01:25:32.399
And then you've got John Levine on the other hand, who's just happy to be there.

1268
01:25:32.460 --> 01:25:39.720
I suppose that's the other end of the spectrum where John Levine had had such a rough life that he was just happy to be a part of a family.

1269
01:25:39.779 --> 01:25:41.279
And he said that himself.

1270
01:25:41.340 --> 01:25:43.619
Happy to be out of the yeti costume.

1271
01:25:43.680 --> 01:25:45.300
Happy to be out of the yeti costume.

1272
01:25:45.359 --> 01:25:46.380
Smelled of wee.

1273
01:25:46.439 --> 01:25:53.460
My book's so sad when Joe announces her engagement.

1274
01:25:53.520 --> 01:25:54.479
His reaction in the background.

1275
01:25:54.600 --> 01:25:55.439
He looks crazy.

1276
01:25:55.979 --> 01:26:00.539
It's not legal for him to get married in 1973, you see. so he's a bit upset.

1277
01:26:00.600 --> 01:26:01.500
Yeah.

1278
01:26:01.560 --> 01:26:03.060
Corporal Osgood's already waiting for him.

1279
01:26:03.899 --> 01:26:05.819
They'd be great together.

1280
01:26:05.880 --> 01:26:06.600
Yeah.

1281
01:26:06.659 --> 01:26:11.699
Did you did you notice the throwback to the Damons in that scene?

1282
01:26:12.479 --> 01:26:15.000
The brig offers Mike a drink.

1283
01:26:15.180 --> 01:26:19.199
Oh, and then they're going to dance later on in the living room.

1284
01:26:19.319 --> 01:26:21.060
Yeah, they do get a thought that was it.

1285
01:26:21.119 --> 01:26:25.020
Yeah, the brig's like, oh, you know, hard luck, Mark, how about a drink?

1286
01:26:25.079 --> 01:26:26.699
Which is very sweet again.

1287
01:26:26.760 --> 01:26:29.579
It sort of builds on that thing we were talking about earlier with the time monster.

1288
01:26:30.239 --> 01:26:37.380
We've been to talk about Joe's departure scene and Joe talks about her uncle.

1289
01:26:37.439 --> 01:26:40.380
Yes, another call back to the very beginning.

1290
01:26:40.439 --> 01:26:42.180
And that's really nice.

1291
01:26:42.239 --> 01:26:44.100
This is massive though, isn't it?

1292
01:26:44.159 --> 01:26:48.420
I mean, she has been the she's the longest serving companion ever.

1293
01:26:48.479 --> 01:26:49.739
She's done 3 years.

1294
01:26:49.800 --> 01:26:53.039
Maybe Jamie does more episodes than her.

1295
01:26:53.100 --> 01:26:54.840
Maybe she's the 2nd longest.

1296
01:26:54.899 --> 01:26:56.819
Does she beat Jamie in time?

1297
01:26:56.880 --> 01:27:00.479
Yes, because, well, I mean, if you think about it doing a full season.

1298
01:27:01.199 --> 01:27:03.300
She does 3 full seasons.

1299
01:27:03.359 --> 01:27:08.039
Jamie nearly does 3 full seasons and they were 40 something episode seasons.

1300
01:27:08.100 --> 01:27:11.520
The other thing to consider, though, is Joe is the solo companion.

1301
01:27:11.579 --> 01:27:12.000
Yeah.

1302
01:27:12.000 --> 01:27:15.239
Whereas, whereas Jamie was with Victoria and then Zoe.

1303
01:27:15.300 --> 01:27:22.800
But she also, I mean, she really creates the single female companion role and she's spectacular at it.

1304
01:27:22.859 --> 01:27:27.060
You know, she really, really is, she's funny, she's super competent.

1305
01:27:27.119 --> 01:27:28.500
She's terribly smart.

1306
01:27:28.560 --> 01:27:31.619
She knows what a controlled, super lucent emission is.

1307
01:27:31.680 --> 01:27:34.680
You know, she's she's funny to watch.

1308
01:27:34.739 --> 01:27:37.020
She humanises pertly.

1309
01:27:37.079 --> 01:27:38.819
She's just been extraordinarily.

1310
01:27:38.880 --> 01:27:46.079
She's been at it for, you know, nearly as long as Trout and, you know, like it's, it's really something this is absolutely monumental.

1311
01:27:46.140 --> 01:27:53.159
And we complained over and over again about these characters being thrown away in the 60s.

1312
01:27:53.220 --> 01:27:55.800
But this is lovely, isn't it?

1313
01:27:55.859 --> 01:27:58.920
It's set up right from episode one and that scene.

1314
01:27:59.039 --> 01:28:01.079
They almost kiss.

1315
01:28:01.140 --> 01:28:03.359
They almost kissed 22 episodes earlier.

1316
01:28:03.420 --> 01:28:09.600
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. and the doctor walks in and and deliberately drags him away like, nope, that's not happening.

1317
01:28:09.659 --> 01:28:20.039
But yeah, you're not at the end, you went at the end and then it's like, you know, we're going to go to the Amazon and do all this and, oh, we're going to get married too, because you can't have an unmarried couple in 1973.

1318
01:28:20.159 --> 01:28:20.520
Yes.

1319
01:28:20.579 --> 01:28:25.260
Well, stop off at Cardiff, get some supplies, get married, and then sort of head off, but they kiss at the end.

1320
01:28:25.319 --> 01:28:27.180
It's so nice.

1321
01:28:27.239 --> 01:28:31.739
And not only that, I've said it before, but Michael Lee Bryant's such a clever director.

1322
01:28:31.800 --> 01:28:40.020
In the 1st episode, when the doctor's standing by the TARDIS and Joe's going to leave, she hugs him, the doctor's on the left of the screen, Joe's on the right of the screen.

1323
01:28:40.079 --> 01:28:44.699
In episode 6 at the end, the doctor's standing by the door.

1324
01:28:44.760 --> 01:28:46.680
He's on the right of the screen, Joe's on the left.

1325
01:28:46.739 --> 01:28:48.779
She hugs him and he walks out.

1326
01:28:49.560 --> 01:28:57.659
And last night I watched episode 6 on the special edition DVD, there's a commentary from Katie Manning and Russell T. Davis.

1327
01:28:57.720 --> 01:29:02.819
And it's great because for the 1st 2 minutes, Russell T. Davis is saying, I don't even know what I'm doing here.

1328
01:29:03.000 --> 01:29:05.039
You know, you were in this.

1329
01:29:05.100 --> 01:29:05.699
I wasn't.

1330
01:29:05.760 --> 01:29:09.180
But they both start crying in that last scene.

1331
01:29:09.239 --> 01:29:16.079
Like, you know, not crying buckets, but their voices are both breaking and like, It's a beautiful shot of her looking over her shoulder.

1332
01:29:16.140 --> 01:29:16.859
Yeah.

1333
01:29:16.920 --> 01:29:18.960
Yes, that's nice, isn't it?

1334
01:29:19.020 --> 01:29:24.720
And it is a contrast to how oblivious she was in episode one too.

1335
01:29:24.779 --> 01:29:26.279
She didn't know she was saving.

1336
01:29:26.340 --> 01:29:27.420
Now she knows she's leaving.

1337
01:29:27.479 --> 01:29:31.859
She will miss the doctor, but she thinks, you know, she's made the right decision.

1338
01:29:31.920 --> 01:29:39.420
Sorry, Russell comments on that action as well because he says, you turn to watch the doctor go, but you touch Cliff's arm.

1339
01:29:39.479 --> 01:29:47.880
And he said, if you had just turned to watch Dr. go and not reach out for Cliff, it would have been Joe realising she's made the wrong decision.

1340
01:29:47.939 --> 01:29:49.800
You touch Cliff, you know it's the right decision.

1341
01:29:49.800 --> 01:29:52.140
And Katie says, well, it is the right decision. have to grow up.

1342
01:29:52.199 --> 01:29:53.220
Yeah.

1343
01:29:53.220 --> 01:29:54.300
And that's it too.

1344
01:29:54.359 --> 01:30:03.060
It is growing up that she's moving out of sort of silly science fiction adventures and actually going off to make the world a better place.

1345
01:30:03.119 --> 01:30:05.100
It's really just, it's lovely.

1346
01:30:05.159 --> 01:30:09.899
I'm not afraid to admit that I shed a manly tear when I was watching it last night as well.

1347
01:30:09.960 --> 01:30:13.380
I mean, God, I usually shed a tear in episode one when she leaves.

1348
01:30:13.439 --> 01:30:15.119
Because as I say, that's when she leaves.

1349
01:30:15.180 --> 01:30:15.539
Yeah.

1350
01:30:15.539 --> 01:30:26.039
And then you've got, you cut to the doctor in, and that long shot with the, is it the sun fading or the sun?

1351
01:30:26.039 --> 01:30:26.699
Yeah, sunset.

1352
01:30:26.760 --> 01:30:27.180
Oh yeah.

1353
01:30:27.239 --> 01:30:32.699
There's a long scene before that where he's walking through a bunch of animals though, which I think probably...

1354
01:30:32.699 --> 01:30:33.479
Oh, up to the car.

1355
01:30:33.539 --> 01:30:34.739
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1356
01:30:34.800 --> 01:30:37.020
There's a lot of lot of farm animals in that story.

1357
01:30:37.560 --> 01:30:40.739
I think that that might undermine some of the emotional impact.

1358
01:30:40.800 --> 01:30:46.079
I don't think it undermines it at all because it emphasises his strangeness in a situation of ordinariness.

1359
01:30:46.140 --> 01:30:49.920
And it's because of his strangeness that he walks away.

1360
01:30:49.979 --> 01:30:57.779
You know, he's not going to stay for the party and say goodbye to Joe because he can't because he's already at his threshold for emotion.

1361
01:30:57.840 --> 01:30:58.500
Yeah.

1362
01:30:58.500 --> 01:30:59.100
You know.

1363
01:30:59.159 --> 01:31:01.199
The doctor doesn't say goodbye.

1364
01:31:01.260 --> 01:31:10.560
It's something that the new series comments on overtly, especially when spoiler alert, everyone, Katie comes back to play Joe in Sarah Jane Adventure's death of the doctor.

1365
01:31:10.619 --> 01:31:14.220
And she comments, you know, you never said goodbye and you never came back.

1366
01:31:14.279 --> 01:31:17.039
It emphasises his distance from that.

1367
01:31:17.100 --> 01:31:29.100
And that shot of him driving along the horizon, the horizons directly in the middle against the settings on because the day of them together is ending.

1368
01:31:29.340 --> 01:31:31.979
And I like the sting actually comes in.

1369
01:31:32.100 --> 01:31:33.720
Yeah, it fades.

1370
01:31:33.779 --> 01:31:34.680
It fades in rum.

1371
01:31:34.739 --> 01:31:40.439
But then you almost have this wonderful Jenny Laird moment where you actually get the end credits coming in upside down.

1372
01:31:40.439 --> 01:31:42.119
For the last time.

1373
01:31:42.119 --> 01:31:44.340
And it happens 3 times in this story.

1374
01:31:44.399 --> 01:31:49.140
So apparently what happens is they don't have time to rewind the tape during, while they're putting the whole thing together.

1375
01:31:49.199 --> 01:31:53.220
And so they just play it backwards, which results in the film being upside down.

1376
01:31:53.279 --> 01:31:58.199
So the very last time we have those closing credits, they're upside down.

1377
01:31:58.260 --> 01:32:00.000
So until next year we'll get a new one.

1378
01:32:00.060 --> 01:32:01.979
And you realise what this means for me.

1379
01:32:02.579 --> 01:32:04.859
Next month we get a new logo.

1380
01:32:04.920 --> 01:32:06.539
Ooh, terrific. wait.

1381
01:32:06.600 --> 01:32:08.699
You have to do the diamond logo.

1382
01:32:08.760 --> 01:32:16.260
A couple of podcasts ago, I promised a new trope, which I had discovered as the podcast resident tropologist.

1383
01:32:16.260 --> 01:32:20.760
And what I've discovered is a trope called the exposition coma.

1384
01:32:20.819 --> 01:32:25.920
And the exposition coma is very much in evidence here.

1385
01:32:25.979 --> 01:32:32.880
Cliff gets infected by the maggots and spends an episode sort of lying in bed and thrashing around like you do.

1386
01:32:32.939 --> 01:32:41.220
But he does deliver important exposition during that coma, in where he says the word serendipity, and then they all have to work out what he means.

1387
01:32:41.279 --> 01:32:51.239
But it turns out that there are exposition comas all the way through, Doctor Who, starting with um per twee, talking about number 2 output pipe in Inferno.

1388
01:32:51.840 --> 01:32:58.260
Filer, Bill Filer, talking about Axons, Must not distribute Axon.

1389
01:32:58.260 --> 01:32:59.699
Must not distribute Axon.

1390
01:32:59.760 --> 01:33:01.380
Because it's Bill Filer, nobody listens anyway.

1391
01:33:01.439 --> 01:33:03.720
No, well, there's no one else in the room, even.

1392
01:33:03.779 --> 01:33:09.000
Stuart gets an exposition coma in the time monster where he talks about how dangerous Chronos is.

1393
01:33:09.060 --> 01:33:13.199
And there doesn't seem to be a page for this on TV trope.

1394
01:33:13.260 --> 01:33:18.899
So I'd like to think that I've discovered the exposition coma.

1395
01:33:18.960 --> 01:33:20.819
So that's a term of art now that I've invented.

1396
01:33:20.819 --> 01:33:23.159
Exposition coma.

1397
01:33:23.220 --> 01:33:26.039
Yeah, I'd like to call it Nathan's exposition coma, actually.

1398
01:33:26.100 --> 01:33:28.020
But the exposition coma will do.

1399
01:33:28.079 --> 01:33:30.479
You don't have to mention me every time you talk about it.

1400
01:33:30.539 --> 01:33:32.100
You can live with me.

1401
01:33:32.159 --> 01:33:34.680
The NEC, dear listener.

1402
01:33:34.739 --> 01:33:38.579
And I've just realised we haven't done Walsh watch for this season.

1403
01:33:38.640 --> 01:33:41.100
Now there's 2 prime examples.

1404
01:33:41.159 --> 01:33:44.520
There may be more in other stories, but I couldn't see them as we were going through.

1405
01:33:44.579 --> 01:33:48.000
So I'm going to start off, 1st of all, the 3 doctors.

1406
01:33:48.060 --> 01:33:53.340
The aforementioned wrestling scene with Pertwee, where Pertwee goes to his back, bad idea.

1407
01:33:53.399 --> 01:33:56.939
That was Terry Walsh, for the most part, playing Pertwee.

1408
01:33:57.000 --> 01:34:00.420
You can tell when the hair colour changes from white to gray.

1409
01:34:00.479 --> 01:34:02.220
That wig is so bad.

1410
01:34:02.279 --> 01:34:03.420
I agree.

1411
01:34:03.479 --> 01:34:04.439
What are they thinking of?

1412
01:34:04.500 --> 01:34:07.020
It's just, it looks like a scrubbing brush.

1413
01:34:07.079 --> 01:34:14.039
And as per twee's hair has got more and more bouffant over the years, they've chosen not to revise the Walsh wig.

1414
01:34:14.100 --> 01:34:15.899
And so it is.

1415
01:34:15.960 --> 01:34:19.140
He straps on his fighting wig whenever he has to like wrestle.

1416
01:34:19.199 --> 01:34:25.859
But at the moment, they're still they're still making an effort to cut between all the sequences, so they try and mask it as much as possible.

1417
01:34:25.920 --> 01:34:28.020
Yeah, it's really just the wig that spoils it.

1418
01:34:28.079 --> 01:34:29.520
Next year you'll see his face.

1419
01:34:29.579 --> 01:34:30.359
Next year?

1420
01:34:30.420 --> 01:34:31.260
Not so much.

1421
01:34:31.319 --> 01:34:36.000
And thankfully when Tom comes on board, spoiler alert, Terry Walsh gets a much better wig.

1422
01:34:36.539 --> 01:34:38.760
But he can't keep the same one.

1423
01:34:38.819 --> 01:34:44.460
I'd be surprised if they didn't attempt it, actually, given the per tweeting. really is so bad.

1424
01:34:44.520 --> 01:34:47.159
And then in the green death.

1425
01:34:47.220 --> 01:34:49.619
Terry Walsh gets to pull triple duty.

1426
01:34:49.680 --> 01:34:56.520
So 1st of all, he's John Poey, stunt double in that wonderful fight in episode two, gentlemen, Venusia Nikito.

1427
01:34:56.579 --> 01:35:07.199
I do hope I haven't harmed you, which is a class line, but again, we can tell who it is by the colour of the hair, and we do get a brief, brief glimpse at Terry Walsh's face.

1428
01:35:07.260 --> 01:35:08.939
Terry Walsh also gets a speaking part.

1429
01:35:08.939 --> 01:35:11.760
It's quite a big speaking part. quite a big speaking part.

1430
01:35:11.819 --> 01:35:14.220
And he gets to argue with the doctor in episode six.

1431
01:35:14.279 --> 01:35:18.479
And then he gets kind of possessed or whatever and collapses.

1432
01:35:18.539 --> 01:35:23.220
And then the doctor saves his life because he drags him away behind Bessie for the explosion.

1433
01:35:23.279 --> 01:35:29.340
Speaking of Bessie, she's got a new engine in this, so you'll notice her bonnet is noticeably longer than it was in the 3 doctors.

1434
01:35:29.399 --> 01:35:29.939
Look out for that.

1435
01:35:30.000 --> 01:35:32.760
I love him when he talks about cars.

1436
01:35:32.819 --> 01:35:39.720
And the other part that Terry Walsh got to play in this was actually the stunt double for Richard Franklin when he jumps off the roof.

1437
01:35:39.960 --> 01:35:43.920
I was wondering about that because there is a really suspicious cart.

1438
01:35:43.979 --> 01:35:45.000
And there is a big jump.

1439
01:35:45.060 --> 01:35:49.619
Like he actually jumps out the window onto a big awning thing. and you actually see that.

1440
01:35:49.680 --> 01:35:51.899
And then he jumps to the ground, but there's a cut there.

1441
01:35:51.960 --> 01:35:53.100
So that's obviously not here.

1442
01:35:53.159 --> 01:35:54.239
But it's very well.

1443
01:35:54.300 --> 01:35:55.199
It's very well edited.

1444
01:35:55.260 --> 01:35:58.260
Richard Franklin matches the action of Terry Walsh.

1445
01:35:58.319 --> 01:36:03.720
And considering that it would have just been Richard Franklin watching the action and then jumping in, not reviewing the footage.

1446
01:36:03.840 --> 01:36:04.800
It's really well done.

1447
01:36:04.859 --> 01:36:07.739
But I think that is Walsh watch for this month.

1448
01:36:07.800 --> 01:36:14.579
Dear listener, if you've seen Terry Walsh in Carnival of Monsters or Frontier in Space.

1449
01:36:14.640 --> 01:36:16.380
Or just when you've gone down the shops?

1450
01:36:16.500 --> 01:36:17.220
Oh, indeed.

1451
01:36:17.220 --> 01:36:22.560
Or, you know, like the cinema or something, if he's been dining out at a restaurant, just let us know.

1452
01:36:22.619 --> 01:36:33.899
Yeah, I do recall a rather fun story of someone who lived in Whitstable when Peter Cushing lived there and he had a punk band, so he wrote a song which went, Peter Cushing lives in Wisstable.

1453
01:36:33.960 --> 01:36:35.159
I have seen him on his bicycle.

1454
01:36:35.220 --> 01:36:36.539
I have seen him buying vegetables.

1455
01:36:36.600 --> 01:36:37.979
Peter Cushing lives in Winstable.

1456
01:36:38.039 --> 01:36:39.300
That's genius.

1457
01:36:40.380 --> 01:36:49.260
Speaking of genius, we now have the Jenny Laird awards and Todd, from your myriad nominations, you're going to have to choose one Jenny Laird award for this year.

1458
01:36:49.319 --> 01:36:50.880
It's tough.

1459
01:36:50.939 --> 01:36:51.840
It really is.

1460
01:36:51.899 --> 01:36:55.920
I'm going to go with the end of Frontier in Space.

1461
01:36:55.979 --> 01:36:57.359
I just think it's unforgivable.

1462
01:36:57.420 --> 01:36:58.260
Nathan?

1463
01:36:58.319 --> 01:37:00.720
Well, I'm going to go with the scrotoid, actually.

1464
01:37:00.779 --> 01:37:06.000
I just sort of think the scrotoid from Frontier in Space, which is a related puzzling creative choice.

1465
01:37:06.060 --> 01:37:09.600
When they had the opportunity to create giant lizards.

1466
01:37:09.659 --> 01:37:14.819
And when they knew how competent the production team were at the creation of giant lizards.

1467
01:37:14.880 --> 01:37:21.000
Why would they not get, say, a puppeteer in and realise a giant lizard?

1468
01:37:21.060 --> 01:37:22.680
That's got to have worked well?

1469
01:37:22.739 --> 01:37:25.920
Certainly better than the scrotoid slug monster did.

1470
01:37:25.979 --> 01:37:28.859
I think we'll see them take up your advice very soon.

1471
01:37:28.920 --> 01:37:30.420
Excellent. can't wait.

1472
01:37:30.479 --> 01:37:37.619
I think my Jenny later award for puzzling creative choice has to be the Styrofoam mountains of the planet Spiritum.

1473
01:37:37.680 --> 01:37:41.819
Yes, that giant rock that falls on Katie's head.

1474
01:37:41.880 --> 01:37:44.819
I'm still like wincing, just seeing it.

1475
01:37:44.880 --> 01:37:49.260
We have come to the conclusion that the 3rd doctor just pronounces everything wrong.

1476
01:37:49.319 --> 01:37:52.260
So it's actually spirit and not spiradon.

1477
01:37:52.319 --> 01:37:56.819
It's metabolis, not metabolis, and it certainly kittenous rather than chipness.

1478
01:37:56.880 --> 01:37:58.260
Yeah, he says chitness.

1479
01:37:58.319 --> 01:37:58.680
That's right.

1480
01:37:58.739 --> 01:37:59.880
I think it's chitinus.

1481
01:38:00.060 --> 01:38:02.939
Titanus. yeah So, you see, it's infecting an E now.

1482
01:38:03.000 --> 01:38:05.159
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1483
01:38:05.220 --> 01:38:07.020
Gentlemen, recommendations for this season.

1484
01:38:07.079 --> 01:38:07.920
What should people check out?

1485
01:38:07.979 --> 01:38:15.300
I think they should check out the Sarah Jane Adventures, Death of the Doctor, with the return of Katie Manning as Joe Jones.

1486
01:38:15.359 --> 01:38:24.539
Wonderful performance, and it's a delight to see her with Liz and with Matt, and I just can't recommend it enough.

1487
01:38:24.600 --> 01:38:30.600
The character development is so great too, because Russell gets exactly why she left the doctor.

1488
01:38:30.659 --> 01:38:32.220
She left the doctor to become an activist.

1489
01:38:32.279 --> 01:38:44.520
So rather than becoming a housewife or contracting syphilis or something, you know, she she is a fantastic, wonderful activist who still loves her husband, who has lots of children and grandchildren, whom she loves.

1490
01:38:44.579 --> 01:38:49.739
She's a dotty, crazy old lady, which is that persona that Katie projects as well.

1491
01:38:49.800 --> 01:39:02.039
You know, Russell writes for Katie now and writes with a real knowledge and a real love of the character of Joe and it's spectacular and the scenes of Joe and Sarah together are just wonderful.

1492
01:39:02.100 --> 01:39:04.260
It's terrific. you know, if you hadn't seen it.

1493
01:39:04.319 --> 01:39:05.760
Make sure you check it out.

1494
01:39:05.819 --> 01:39:17.579
And incidentally, dear listener, if you can't track down Sarah Jane Adventures series 4 on DVD or Blu-ray, that two-part Sarah Jane Adventure story is included on the Green Death Special Edition DVD.

1495
01:39:17.640 --> 01:39:19.739
Oh, it's an extra. that's right Really?

1496
01:39:19.800 --> 01:39:20.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1497
01:39:20.399 --> 01:39:20.939
I think I knew that.

1498
01:39:21.000 --> 01:39:21.420
Okay.

1499
01:39:21.479 --> 01:39:22.859
Brendan?

1500
01:39:22.979 --> 01:39:37.140
My recommendation, of course, it has to be Katie Manning related, is for the Big Finnish Companion Chronicle Find and Replace, which is set, again, about 20 years after Joe leaves the doctor.

1501
01:39:37.199 --> 01:39:38.699
She is now Joe Jones.

1502
01:39:38.699 --> 01:39:43.020
However, someone is stalking her based on her life with the doctor.

1503
01:39:43.079 --> 01:39:45.180
Now, like all companion chronicles.

1504
01:39:45.239 --> 01:39:50.520
It's a 2 hander with Katie and one other actor, but that doesn't mean it's limited to 2 characters.

1505
01:39:50.640 --> 01:39:56.699
Indeed, Katie is not limited to 2 characters within it as another character made famous by Katie appears.

1506
01:39:56.760 --> 01:39:59.760
We have Jo Jones meets Iris Wild Time.

1507
01:39:59.819 --> 01:40:02.220
I've listened to this wonderful.

1508
01:40:02.279 --> 01:40:03.060
Isn't it wonderful?

1509
01:40:03.119 --> 01:40:04.380
Oh, I highly recommended.

1510
01:40:04.439 --> 01:40:05.039
You know what?

1511
01:40:05.100 --> 01:40:14.399
It's just a testament to Katie and the scriptwriter because it is funny and scary and heartwarming and heartbreaking all at once.

1512
01:40:14.460 --> 01:40:15.840
I'm not going to say anything more about it.

1513
01:40:15.899 --> 01:40:17.699
Go download it.

1514
01:40:17.760 --> 01:40:21.180
I think if you're in Australia, it's about $10 to download one of those.

1515
01:40:21.239 --> 01:40:22.739
It is well worth the hour of your time.

1516
01:40:22.800 --> 01:40:23.760
It's very clever.

1517
01:40:23.819 --> 01:40:24.479
It's very clever.

1518
01:40:24.600 --> 01:40:25.739
Nathan.

1519
01:40:25.800 --> 01:40:27.899
Okay, so my pick of the week.

1520
01:40:27.960 --> 01:40:31.380
I had three, but Todd fortunately chose one of them.

1521
01:40:31.439 --> 01:40:33.359
I think that that's an absolute mask.

1522
01:40:33.420 --> 01:40:37.979
I have mentioned listening to Margasis Reed, Planet of the Daleks.

1523
01:40:38.039 --> 01:40:49.020
We've mentioned Russell T. Davis a couple of times this episode, and I want to recommend that people watch cucumber, banana, and tofu because essentially no one I know has watched them.

1524
01:40:49.140 --> 01:40:51.899
I have no one to talk to about them.

1525
01:40:52.020 --> 01:40:54.539
And I think they're really really extraordinary.

1526
01:40:54.600 --> 01:41:02.159
So Russell has learned from his time on Doctor Who, that you can create a TV event by releasing a bunch of linked TV shows.

1527
01:41:02.220 --> 01:41:03.000
Do you know what I mean?

1528
01:41:03.060 --> 01:41:08.039
Like the way he had Doctor Who and Torchwood and Sarah Jane and Confidential and stuff all at once.

1529
01:41:08.100 --> 01:41:11.460
So he created a really big TV event here.

1530
01:41:11.520 --> 01:41:25.020
So there's 8 episodes of cucumber, which is sort of 45 minutes long, and it tells a connected story about a 46 year old gay man who lives in Manchester, you know, like a kind of sequel to queer as folk.

1531
01:41:25.079 --> 01:41:41.819
And then immediately after that, you switch to the other sort of channel 4 channel for a 25 minute sort of short story called Banana, which was like an anthology show that dealt with like one of the individual characters from the episode that you just watched.

1532
01:41:41.880 --> 01:41:48.359
And then there was a 3rd thing called tofu, which was a sort of interview show about sort of sex and sexuality and stuff.

1533
01:41:48.420 --> 01:41:50.460
It's not suitable for children.

1534
01:41:50.520 --> 01:41:52.319
It's proper grown up drama.

1535
01:41:52.380 --> 01:42:04.979
There are no robots in it, but it is some of Russell T. Davis's best work, and as someone who loved his time as Doctor Who Showrunner, It was just lovely to see new stuff written by him.

1536
01:42:05.039 --> 01:42:13.739
And it's funny and it's heartbreaking and harrowing and affecting and just really interesting and so I can't recommend it enough.

1537
01:42:23.279 --> 01:42:34.079
Well, dear listener, as we bid a fond and tearful farewell to Katie Manning as Joe Grant, That's all the time we have for this episode of the podcast.

1538
01:42:34.140 --> 01:42:37.439
Nathan and I will be back in two weeks, along with Richard.

1539
01:42:37.500 --> 01:42:39.899
Todd will join us again in a month's time.

1540
01:42:39.960 --> 01:42:42.960
So story allocations for season 11.

1541
01:42:43.439 --> 01:42:53.039
Richard, if you are listening for John Pertwee's final season in the role of the doctor, you will be discussing the Time Warrior and the Monster of Peladin.

1542
01:42:53.279 --> 01:42:54.659
Sorry.

1543
01:42:55.199 --> 01:43:00.899
I will be handling invasion of the dinosaurs and Death to the Daleks.

1544
01:43:01.680 --> 01:43:07.380
And Nathan, that leaves you with Planet of the Spiders.

1545
01:43:07.439 --> 01:43:08.939
Excellent.

1546
01:43:09.000 --> 01:43:10.020
Oh, wow.

1547
01:43:10.079 --> 01:43:11.520
I'm really excited by that.

1548
01:43:11.579 --> 01:43:13.020
I love Robert Sloan.

1549
01:43:13.079 --> 01:43:17.819
He's very unfairly maligned in some fan quarters but never by me.

1550
01:43:17.880 --> 01:43:20.340
Speaking of maligned.

1551
01:43:20.399 --> 01:43:28.020
As we move into season 12 where Todd will return, Nathan, you will be discussing Revenge of the Cybermen.

1552
01:43:28.199 --> 01:43:30.300
I like revenge.

1553
01:43:30.359 --> 01:43:31.199
Yeah you're crazy.

1554
01:43:31.260 --> 01:43:40.859
Todd, you get half of the Nerva Beacon story arc with the Arc in Space and Genesis of the Daleks.

1555
01:43:40.920 --> 01:43:41.939
I've lucked out.

1556
01:43:42.000 --> 01:43:43.140
You have.

1557
01:43:43.199 --> 01:43:48.539
Uh, which leaves me to uh, do the honours with the Santarian experiment.

1558
01:43:48.600 --> 01:43:55.319
The Bristol boys are back, and the debut, possibly the most important Doctor Who debut story, robot.

1559
01:43:55.380 --> 01:44:01.020
So, ladies and gentlemen, and those who have yet to make up their minds.

1560
01:44:01.079 --> 01:44:04.380
My name's Brendan, and this is the end of Flight Through Entirety.

1561
01:44:04.439 --> 01:44:04.920
We see you later.

1562
01:44:04.979 --> 01:44:06.060
Good night.

1563
01:44:06.119 --> 01:44:07.319
See you soon.

1564
01:44:10.439 --> 01:44:12.539
That one's quite your entirety.

1565
01:44:12.539 --> 01:44:15.420
For Billy, Nathan, Brendan James.

1566
01:44:15.479 --> 01:44:20.220
In this episode, you're not comfortable hip there, is reported on the 3rd April 2015.

1567
01:44:20.640 --> 01:44:23.340
Next episode will be released on the 10th of May.

1568
01:44:23.399 --> 01:44:26.399
Podcasting isn't just a matter of not being frightened, you know?

1569
01:44:26.460 --> 01:44:29.279
It's being afraid and eating the cakes you have to eat anyway.

1570
01:44:33.659 --> 01:44:36.600
I can't think what else I needed to say.

1571
01:44:37.199 --> 01:44:39.300
The thals.

1572
01:44:39.300 --> 01:44:47.159
Lartep, Taron, Fungoids, gosh, this is stupid.