WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:53:00 1 00:00:40.500 --> 00:00:48.960 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flights for Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast, which is just too stupid to be allowed to continue. 2 00:00:49.020 --> 00:00:50.820 And yet here we are. 3 00:00:50.939 --> 00:00:52.259 I'm Nathan. 4 00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:53.340 I'm Brendan. 5 00:00:53.399 --> 00:00:54.840 I'm Peter and I'm Adam. 6 00:00:54.899 --> 00:01:01.679 Well, it's been a whole year since we last saw the doctor, or 24 years, depending on how you count these things. 7 00:01:01.740 --> 00:01:10.680 And in all that time, we've loved and lost and maybe nipped out to the cinema to see Wanda Ventham's boy in one of those Marvel superhero films. 8 00:01:10.980 --> 00:01:18.719 But now it's time for the doctor to come back or in other words, it's time for the return of Dr. Mysterio. 9 00:01:42.780 --> 00:01:46.200 I remember going to the cinema to see this, Brenda. 10 00:01:46.319 --> 00:01:46.799 We did. 11 00:01:46.859 --> 00:01:47.760 Oh. 12 00:01:47.819 --> 00:01:52.560 So, you, me, Richard, I think maybe James. 13 00:01:52.620 --> 00:01:53.760 Calvin came. 14 00:01:53.819 --> 00:01:54.599 Calvin came. 15 00:01:54.659 --> 00:02:04.439 Rod came, and I remember that is the thing I've mentioned on the podcast before, sitting next to Richard in a Doctor Who screening in a cinema is an experience. 16 00:02:05.340 --> 00:02:10.860 Because you will have your arm grabbed very forcefully at exciting moment. 17 00:02:10.919 --> 00:02:11.879 Oh, no, it's delightful. 18 00:02:11.939 --> 00:02:12.599 It's delightful. 19 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:15.060 And you did have to ask him to stop. 20 00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:17.520 Yeah, I did have to say, that's your armrest. 21 00:02:17.580 --> 00:02:18.599 That's my oh. 22 00:02:19.319 --> 00:02:23.280 I was going to say, did anything exciting happen in this episode that warranted enough? 23 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:29.400 Also, are you sure you're not misremembering watching 1978 Superman? 24 00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:39.479 Well, 1978 Superman didn't have a five-minute section before the episode spoiling how they do the special effect that leads into the opening title. 25 00:02:39.659 --> 00:02:41.699 Sharmil film. 26 00:02:41.759 --> 00:02:44.819 Oh, I'm pretty sure it also didn't have an erection joke. 27 00:02:44.879 --> 00:02:45.479 There we go. 28 00:02:46.379 --> 00:02:48.360 Rod didn't like it. 29 00:02:48.419 --> 00:02:49.379 I seem to remember. 30 00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:52.860 As I was leaving the flat this morning. 31 00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:54.360 He said to me, which one are you doing? 32 00:02:54.419 --> 00:02:57.479 I said, the Peter Capaldi Christmas one with the superhero. 33 00:02:57.539 --> 00:02:59.340 He says, 0 yeah, the stupid one. 34 00:03:00.060 --> 00:03:02.819 It's fun, but it's really stupid. 35 00:03:02.879 --> 00:03:04.259 Yeah. 36 00:03:04.319 --> 00:03:05.460 I think that's fair. 37 00:03:06.300 --> 00:03:14.340 We were talking earlier, Peter and I, about how Doctor Who sometimes comes in with the very new thing about 5 years too late. 38 00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:15.900 Oh, yeah, yeah. 39 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:17.460 And this is very much that. 40 00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:24.240 In fact, it seems to be completely unaware of anything that's going on in the Marvel cinematic universe. 41 00:03:24.300 --> 00:03:25.740 Absolutely unaware. 42 00:03:25.800 --> 00:03:26.400 Yeah. 43 00:03:26.460 --> 00:03:28.560 Like frightfully unaware. 44 00:03:28.620 --> 00:03:37.319 And it's so weird because the previous showrunner was a comic obsessive and basically did pastiches of Marvel comics all the time. 45 00:03:37.379 --> 00:03:42.419 And Stephen Moffat is cribbing from the 1978 Superman movie. 46 00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:43.620 Yeah, which is not a comic. 47 00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:44.219 No. 48 00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:45.360 No, no. 49 00:03:45.419 --> 00:03:56.879 And he actually says, like, I did read some of the sort of stuff around the publicity where Moffat talks about having been a great fan of comic books, but I don't think that that can be the case. 50 00:03:56.939 --> 00:03:59.219 Or at least not for quite some time. 51 00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:03.599 Yeah, he's what he thinks he remembers about comic books. 52 00:04:03.659 --> 00:04:05.819 Just like what he thinks he remembers about Doctor Who? 53 00:04:05.879 --> 00:04:08.520 Yeah, yeah. 54 00:04:08.520 --> 00:04:14.759 Well, I mean, it is, it's the 1978 Superman film, which I did go and see in the cinema. 55 00:04:14.819 --> 00:04:16.800 My father, my grandmother took me. 56 00:04:16.860 --> 00:04:18.600 Yeah, my dad all of an age. 57 00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:24.300 Brandon, you saw it on... 58 00:04:24.300 --> 00:04:25.500 You're a foetus. 59 00:04:26.819 --> 00:04:28.379 No. 60 00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:30.779 No, no, no. 61 00:04:30.839 --> 00:04:31.920 No, he's got a point. 62 00:04:34.980 --> 00:04:39.660 No, no, I saw the Superman films on television. 63 00:04:39.720 --> 00:04:41.100 I'm just trying to think. 64 00:04:41.160 --> 00:04:46.199 I think the 1st superhero film I saw in the cinema was the 1st X-Men film. 65 00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:46.860 Oh, okay. 66 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:49.379 Because of course, I've been obsessed with the cartoon. 67 00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:51.779 Oh, I thought you were just a Hugh Jackman. 68 00:04:51.839 --> 00:04:54.300 I'd been to Sunset Boulevard. 69 00:04:54.360 --> 00:04:55.019 It was amazing. 70 00:04:55.259 --> 00:04:57.720 For me it was James Marsden. 71 00:04:57.899 --> 00:04:59.939 James Mars, yeah. 72 00:05:00.420 --> 00:05:04.199 But the other thing, I think this crib's a lot from visually. 73 00:05:04.259 --> 00:05:05.819 So maybe this is Ed Bez will get. 74 00:05:05.879 --> 00:05:09.240 Yes. is the Raimy Spider-Man films. 75 00:05:09.300 --> 00:05:10.019 Yes. 76 00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:10.439 Yeah. 77 00:05:10.439 --> 00:05:12.240 Yeah. some pretty obvious nods. 78 00:05:12.300 --> 00:05:12.959 Yeah. 79 00:05:13.019 --> 00:05:22.019 I think there's a sort of the way that the ghost is designed as well is a little bit kind of Tim Burton's Batman as well and the voice and stuff. 80 00:05:22.079 --> 00:05:25.500 So there is some more recent stuff, but Moffatt's not responsible for that. 81 00:05:25.560 --> 00:05:30.000 And Ed, do we know Ed's previous work? 82 00:05:30.060 --> 00:05:32.339 In previous work, Adam, in the vapours. 83 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:33.000 Yes. 84 00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:35.160 The band that recorded turning Japanese. 85 00:05:35.579 --> 00:05:37.500 Oh my god. 86 00:05:37.560 --> 00:05:38.639 No, I did not. 87 00:05:38.699 --> 00:05:39.959 Yes. 88 00:05:40.019 --> 00:05:40.740 Yeah. 89 00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:41.339 Wow. 90 00:05:41.399 --> 00:05:45.180 So he did he did a few earlier Doctor Who's. 91 00:05:45.240 --> 00:05:56.160 He did the girl who died and the woman who lived, he will go on to do a few episodes of class, but yes, he was a member of the vapours who had a hit with turning Japanese in 1980. 92 00:05:56.339 --> 00:05:57.779 Which was a euphemism. 93 00:05:57.839 --> 00:05:58.259 Yes. 94 00:05:58.319 --> 00:06:02.939 He delivered the woman who lived and they said, I know, let's get him back for Christmas. 95 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:04.139 Is this what you're saying? 96 00:06:04.199 --> 00:06:05.160 I think so. 97 00:06:05.220 --> 00:06:10.560 I mean, I have to say that I thought perhaps alone among people. 98 00:06:10.620 --> 00:06:22.980 I thought that those 2 episodes were actually pretty good, and particularly the 1st one, and it is a kind of standard thing where Moffatt picks a director from the previous year and gets them to do the Christmas special. 99 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:27.360 Most famously, I think, Saul Metstein for the snowman, right? 100 00:06:27.420 --> 00:06:42.420 And I think this is sort of reasonably, like this is kind of reasonably well done, but the actual sort of superhero thing is just from that rooftop scene in Superman 1978. 101 00:06:42.660 --> 00:06:51.720 Oh, yeah. where I think it even has the thing where Lois asks Clark about whether he can see her underwear or something like that. 102 00:06:51.779 --> 00:06:59.939 Yeah, all of that. and they're taking off of the glasses, like the, you know, revealing the thing and then deciding against it. 103 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:02.220 It's like this whole thing is lifted. 104 00:07:02.279 --> 00:07:04.800 Yeah, yeah, yeah, off into the sky with Lucy. 105 00:07:04.860 --> 00:07:07.560 It's the whole, you know, you've got me who's got you. 106 00:07:07.620 --> 00:07:09.060 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 107 00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:09.360 Yeah. 108 00:07:09.420 --> 00:07:13.860 I hope this won't put you off a career in journalism. recipes are from the helicopter. yeah. 109 00:07:14.459 --> 00:07:21.480 And like stealing from the best, it is a superbly good film. absolutely brilliant. 110 00:07:21.540 --> 00:07:23.519 Yeah, it's Richard Donner. great director. 111 00:07:23.579 --> 00:07:25.139 We know if Russell had been in charge. 112 00:07:25.199 --> 00:07:26.459 You would equipped from Superman 2. 113 00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:27.300 Yes. 114 00:07:27.300 --> 00:07:29.399 He would have proved from Supergirl. 115 00:07:29.459 --> 00:07:30.899 Oh, my God. 116 00:07:30.959 --> 00:07:33.300 The campest film ever made. 117 00:07:34.980 --> 00:07:42.660 Speaking of a different iteration of Supergirl, I think that, yes, this is showing its roots and it shows Moffat's age. 118 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:47.160 But also this was the age of the CW superhero show. 119 00:07:47.220 --> 00:07:48.060 Oh yes. 120 00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:51.540 So this is absolutely grounded in like the Flash. 121 00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:55.079 Yeah, on CW, which I think started a couple of years before, yeah. 122 00:07:55.139 --> 00:07:57.180 Arab, which just started a couple of years before this. 123 00:07:57.240 --> 00:08:02.819 And I think there's got to be the hero grant has got to be named after Grant Gustin, who it's the Flash. 124 00:08:02.879 --> 00:08:03.839 Oh, okay. 125 00:08:03.899 --> 00:08:05.699 And so I think that's what I was trying. 126 00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:12.120 The problem is, it's quite charming and quite inoffensive, but doesn't really stretch for anything. 127 00:08:12.180 --> 00:08:18.180 And so it ends up not so much feeling like Doctor Who's version of that show, but like a fairly middling episode of one of those shows. 128 00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:19.079 Yeah, right. 129 00:08:19.079 --> 00:08:19.560 Yeah. 130 00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:21.600 Like Doctor Who does great pastiche. 131 00:08:21.660 --> 00:08:35.879 Like, you know, Gothic horror and, you know, comedy and slapstick and all that kind of stuff, but it just feels like this is not so much a pastiche as a, almost like a half baked parody. 132 00:08:35.940 --> 00:08:37.620 Yeah, it felt like there was a lot more. 133 00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:38.700 It could have been reaching for. 134 00:08:38.759 --> 00:08:45.120 Whereas most of the things that does, you know, hanging upside down Spider-Man, et cetera. just feels like the lowest hanging fruits possible. 135 00:08:45.179 --> 00:08:46.919 Maybe Motha was tired. 136 00:08:46.980 --> 00:08:57.960 But also like even the direction, like that scene where it's all split screen and it goes like Angley's Hulk and you're like, yeah, I get that you're trying to do comic panels on the screen, but in the scene where everyone's just having a chat. 137 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:02.340 Like, is that the scene to break up with little weird panels? 138 00:09:02.399 --> 00:09:03.299 Like it was... 139 00:09:03.299 --> 00:09:05.340 I did like the appearance of the baby in the panels. 140 00:09:05.399 --> 00:09:07.320 Yeah, reaction shot from baby. 141 00:09:07.379 --> 00:09:10.919 But I think the baby is there just to indicate their concern about the baby. 142 00:09:10.980 --> 00:09:16.799 Like when the subtext moves on to talking about the baby, the baby appears in one of the panels and stuff. did laugh at that. 143 00:09:16.860 --> 00:09:17.820 Yeah, yeah. 144 00:09:17.879 --> 00:09:19.019 I mean, yes. 145 00:09:19.080 --> 00:09:19.919 I think that's it. 146 00:09:19.980 --> 00:09:25.440 You know, Doctor Who crashes itself into various stories and various genres and stuff and that's the thing that it does. 147 00:09:25.500 --> 00:09:28.559 You know, what if X but Doctor Who? 148 00:09:28.620 --> 00:09:31.379 And that's absolutely what Doctor Who is for. 149 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:40.620 And so this was kind of inevitable, but Moffatt's not the person to do it because unlike Russell, you know, Russell and Moffatt are similar ages, aren't they? 150 00:09:40.679 --> 00:09:41.279 Yeah. 151 00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:41.580 Yeah. 152 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:45.840 But I think just, I don't know, is it being gay, not having children? 153 00:09:45.899 --> 00:09:50.399 There's something about Russell is up to date. 154 00:09:50.460 --> 00:09:55.259 He just has his finger on the zeitgeist more than, you know, the zeitgeist flows from him. 155 00:09:55.320 --> 00:10:00.720 He just, he is more versed in kind of the way that the modern world works. 156 00:10:00.779 --> 00:10:04.559 So when you've got kind of social media, Russell will give you dot and bubble. 157 00:10:04.559 --> 00:10:09.059 When you're looking at Wi-Fi, Motha will give you the bell sip syndrome. 158 00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:11.879 Yeah, where he doesn't really quite understand why WiFi is. 159 00:10:11.940 --> 00:10:14.700 Or where, you know, we're grandmother. 160 00:10:14.759 --> 00:10:15.600 Yeah exactly. 161 00:10:15.659 --> 00:10:17.279 Oh, you're going to pay money. 162 00:10:17.340 --> 00:10:18.539 Do you know what I mean? 163 00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:25.379 To license some song and Russell will do scissor sisters or soft sell or something like that. 164 00:10:25.980 --> 00:10:31.919 And Moffat will do an Englishman in New York. you know, like just the most basic thing that can possibly be imagined. 165 00:10:31.980 --> 00:10:40.200 I, yeah, it was weird because I was so hopeful when it started out with, you know, an actual John Byrne Superman comic. 166 00:10:40.259 --> 00:10:41.580 I was like, 0 my God, this is amazing. 167 00:10:41.639 --> 00:10:42.960 Then he drew on it and I was horrified. 168 00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:44.519 I think that was deliberate. 169 00:10:45.299 --> 00:10:47.820 Like, look at me ruining your childhood. 170 00:10:47.940 --> 00:10:49.320 With this show. 171 00:10:50.639 --> 00:10:54.059 But it was that moment I was like, oh, this is exciting. 172 00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:58.080 And then the doctor not understanding the whole Clark Lois Lane thing. 173 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:04.860 And I'm like, I feel like we just had, you know, 6 years of the doctor being so up on pop culture. 174 00:11:04.919 --> 00:11:08.220 How has it all just fallen out of his head? 175 00:11:08.279 --> 00:11:21.299 It is also, I think, and it's at that point where it 1st starts, this is a reimagining of Capaldi's doctor now that we don't have Clara anymore. 176 00:11:21.360 --> 00:11:32.039 And he is much sillier and much goofier and perhaps a little bit more, not in the way he acts or, you know, appears, but a little bit more like Matt Smith. 177 00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:42.779 And, you know, his response to Grant telling him everyone knows that Clark Kent and Superman are the same person. 178 00:11:42.840 --> 00:11:54.659 He goes, well, Lois Lane doesn't know and she's a reporter. which is absolutely, you know, silly and a Matt Smith kind of thing, a childish thing. 179 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:57.059 Even where he kind of refers to himself as the main one. 180 00:11:57.120 --> 00:11:58.379 You know, I'm the doctor. 181 00:11:58.440 --> 00:11:59.940 I'm the main one. 182 00:12:00.059 --> 00:12:02.759 That's very Matt Smith as well. 183 00:12:02.820 --> 00:12:11.759 And so I think we're moving away from that sort of grumpy, unlikeable doctor just back to Moffatt's original conception of what the doctor's going to be like. 184 00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:19.200 Yeah, welcome to the best version of the Capaldi doctor because even though he's been great in the past and magnificent at various times. 185 00:12:19.259 --> 00:12:21.779 This, he really catches the alchemy here. 186 00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:24.419 I think he gets it really right and this continues in series 10. 187 00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:36.299 So I have a weird history with this episode in that I had given up on Doctor Who. 188 00:12:36.419 --> 00:12:37.799 I was like, yeah, it's not for me anymore. 189 00:12:37.860 --> 00:12:39.179 I've outgrowing it. 190 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:40.379 This episode. 191 00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:42.480 I think I watched sometime in January. 192 00:12:42.539 --> 00:12:43.320 Oh, wow. 193 00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:47.460 Like, you know, I saw it on Boxing Day on the screen at a pub and I was like, oh, that's right. 194 00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:48.120 Doctor Who's on. 195 00:12:48.179 --> 00:12:54.240 Like I was at that and probably would not have watched season 10 had it not become my job to watch season 10. 196 00:12:54.419 --> 00:12:54.899 Yeah. 197 00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:55.980 Oh, of course. 198 00:12:56.159 --> 00:13:01.139 But yeah, I was completely checked out and thought, oh, this will be really good. 199 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:07.259 I'll get to go back and, you know, maybe reinvest in this show and I still hate it. 200 00:13:08.159 --> 00:13:11.279 But adored Capaldi. 201 00:13:11.340 --> 00:13:16.019 Like, you know, like, you know, in some of our least favourite Doctor 2 episodes ever. 202 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:18.179 The lead actor is amazing. 203 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:19.620 Yeah, time hash. 204 00:13:19.679 --> 00:13:20.100 Yeah. 205 00:13:20.220 --> 00:13:24.000 Incredible. thing is, they think I'm joking. 206 00:13:24.059 --> 00:13:26.159 That's great. inscribable. 207 00:13:26.220 --> 00:13:28.980 But yeah, it's like Capaldi is just great. 208 00:13:29.039 --> 00:13:34.620 Like, and you know, you've got Matt Lucas, they're trying to chew on a bit of the scenery in the corner. 209 00:13:34.679 --> 00:13:36.179 He's like, I won't be letting you have that. 210 00:13:37.139 --> 00:13:39.480 I'm gonna eat that before you get there. 211 00:13:39.779 --> 00:13:44.399 I mean, I think part of it is the presence of Matt Lucas as Nardol. 212 00:13:44.460 --> 00:13:54.120 It brings out a different aspect of Capaldi's doctor and it gives him license to be freer and funnier because you've got this other presence in the screen who's being really big and huge. 213 00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:56.580 And so it allows him that room to move. 214 00:13:56.639 --> 00:14:05.519 But it's also the thing that happens when Romana comes along with Tom Baker because Tom Baker works because he has someone to rebel against. in Romana. 215 00:14:05.580 --> 00:14:10.379 So sometimes he's this sort of austere authority figure. like in horror fang rock or something like that. 216 00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:17.340 But it's also fun to see Tom on the back foot and Tom sulking and Tom being petty and stuff because he's got a grown-up in charge. 217 00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:24.120 And you kind of have that a little bit with Nadol, like, and particularly going forward into series 10. 218 00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:28.259 And so the doctor has someone to be kind of silly and reaction to. 219 00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:29.340 And I think it works really well. 220 00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:34.799 I also think like Nadol is literally the weirdest companion that the show has ever had. 221 00:14:34.860 --> 00:14:36.000 It was a head. 222 00:14:36.059 --> 00:14:37.500 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 223 00:14:37.620 --> 00:14:39.720 So we don't see him arrive. 224 00:14:39.779 --> 00:14:42.659 Like we saw him last episode a year ago. 225 00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:47.039 Yeah, in the Husbands of River Song. 226 00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:47.759 As ahead. 227 00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:49.500 With Ramon. 228 00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:51.899 Also ahead. 229 00:14:51.960 --> 00:14:55.379 And I put those 2 things together in my head as well. 230 00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:57.779 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 231 00:14:57.840 --> 00:14:58.259 Oh, yeah. 232 00:14:58.500 --> 00:15:01.080 So we never see him arrive. 233 00:15:01.139 --> 00:15:06.960 He's sort of not really around in the 1st half of the season. 234 00:15:07.019 --> 00:15:10.799 He sort of comes in a little bit and then they gradually sort of bring him in. 235 00:15:10.860 --> 00:15:19.679 But he doesn't fit in the sort of list of the doctor's companions alongside Harry or Leila. like Nadol, you know, like... 236 00:15:19.740 --> 00:15:20.639 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 237 00:15:20.700 --> 00:15:28.860 Yeah, it's very strange and it is kind of Moffatt's way of kind of deconstructing the shape of the program or something like that. 238 00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:30.360 He's kind of canine. 239 00:15:30.419 --> 00:15:31.740 He's kind of a pet. 240 00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:35.759 Like, it's like weirdly competent, you know, thing. 241 00:15:35.820 --> 00:15:37.259 Yeah, the tin dog. 242 00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:38.039 Yeah, yeah. 243 00:15:38.100 --> 00:15:46.139 But also, part of that is because for the way that they shot it, because they shot half of series, roughly, half of series 10 before they shot the Christmas episode. 244 00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:52.500 And so they retrofit Nadol into the Christmas episode to introduce him into a season that he's already been filming. 245 00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:53.159 Right, okay. 246 00:15:53.220 --> 00:15:54.179 Yeah, exactly. 247 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:56.820 They'd shot the 1st four, possibly 5 episodes. 248 00:15:56.879 --> 00:16:04.139 And they really loved what Matt Lucas was doing, and the very early scripts of Dr. Mysterio have Capaldi by himself. 249 00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:06.120 Oh, he's not in there at all. 250 00:16:06.179 --> 00:16:09.779 And then they write in Matt Lucas, and that's kind of why he pops in and out of scenes. 251 00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:19.860 You know, he doesn't real, like he doesn't have his own plot line except for like being at the press conference at the beginning because it's kind of like, okay, we've already got the structure of the plot. 252 00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:22.500 We need to introduce Matt Lucas without him disrupting things. 253 00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:24.899 And of course, then you get Matt Lucas coming on set and ad-libbing. 254 00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:27.960 Like, things like, ooh, elephant, complete adlid. 255 00:16:28.019 --> 00:16:28.799 That's adorable. 256 00:16:28.860 --> 00:16:30.960 Capaldi said an interview. 257 00:16:31.019 --> 00:16:32.879 He's like, I love Matt Lucas's outlips. 258 00:16:32.940 --> 00:16:38.220 The only problem is, you don't know they're coming, and he's Matt Lucas, so you burst out laughing. 259 00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:40.379 It's great. 260 00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:41.460 He was never part of the story. 261 00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:45.720 He's just a 3rd draft Oh my god. 262 00:16:45.779 --> 00:16:47.580 Imagine if he'd had that line at some point. 263 00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:49.500 No, I'll do this. 264 00:16:49.559 --> 00:17:00.960 I'm only a 3rd draft I mean, he does need to be there in the story as we have it because around about halfway through the doctor gets shunted off into that kind of exploring the spaceship plot. 265 00:17:01.019 --> 00:17:05.700 He's doing something that's keeping him occupied, but keeping him away from kind of the main plot. 266 00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:09.779 And so he does need someone to talk to while that's happening, I think. 267 00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:15.839 Well, you know, I'm sure Moffatt originally had him constantly talking to Grant on the thing. 268 00:17:15.900 --> 00:17:20.160 Yeah, weird, absolutely. ear thing while he's in 4 different places at once. 269 00:17:20.220 --> 00:17:22.319 Yeah, that sounds that sounds plausible. 270 00:17:22.380 --> 00:17:24.119 Isn't Grant cute? 271 00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:28.619 Yes Iish. 272 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:34.859 Listeners, in case you were wondering in our spare time, we all fly around in blue rubber suits with big cheese on the front. 273 00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:39.180 I'm wearing mine now That costume is terrible. 274 00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:40.200 Oh, yeah. 275 00:17:40.259 --> 00:17:43.319 And the mask is just a bafflingly weird idea. 276 00:17:43.380 --> 00:17:59.220 This is how you know A, Moffat is not gay and B, not really into what's going on with superhero comics and superhero TV shows because we would have had at least 3 scenes of grant with no clothes on whatsoever. 277 00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:03.180 Like, look how muscly I am despite not wearing the suit. 278 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:04.920 Yes, which is what they do. 279 00:18:04.980 --> 00:18:06.539 It's like, I'm into the gym 400 times. 280 00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:07.440 I'm showing off my apps. 281 00:18:07.500 --> 00:18:09.839 That Simpsons joke isn't a pure Adam West. 282 00:18:10.740 --> 00:18:12.240 It is. 283 00:18:12.299 --> 00:18:15.240 You need to see there's a superhero under the superhero suit. 284 00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:20.880 Yeah, yeah, because the superhero suit is all sort of quilted and padded and stuff, so there's no muscles. 285 00:18:20.940 --> 00:18:25.079 So, and then the, like, what the hell is going on with the mask? 286 00:18:25.140 --> 00:18:26.160 It's so bad. 287 00:18:26.220 --> 00:18:28.799 Well, it's because he's good looking and you've got to hide that. 288 00:18:28.859 --> 00:18:30.839 This is unrecognisable. 289 00:18:30.900 --> 00:18:33.119 But I mean, we've all... 290 00:18:33.180 --> 00:18:36.839 Haven't we lampshade at the idea of glasses and no glasses? 291 00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:39.299 And the glasses and no glasses thing keeps coming. 292 00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:42.599 So it doesn't look like the mask is actually necessary. 293 00:18:42.660 --> 00:18:44.400 Why is it even there? 294 00:18:44.460 --> 00:18:45.420 And it looks bad. 295 00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:47.279 It's, yeah. 296 00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:52.019 Method of transformation is Wonder Woman kind of spin thing. 297 00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:53.039 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 298 00:18:53.099 --> 00:18:53.880 It's pretty gray. 299 00:18:54.000 --> 00:19:01.319 And just even the sort of thing where, you know, like the glasses will just sort of land on the table in the foreground of the shot as he sort of disappears and stuff. 300 00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:05.279 I think it probably needed bigger casting than Justin Chatwin. 301 00:19:05.339 --> 00:19:15.240 This episode felt like it was, especially for Christmas, crying out for big stunt casting for both for both grant and Lucy, and that would have made much more of the romance as well. 302 00:19:15.299 --> 00:19:17.519 It all feels a little bit sedate. 303 00:19:17.579 --> 00:19:23.700 But having said that, I think he's quite charming, especially when he's playing Grant rather than, oh, yeah. 304 00:19:23.700 --> 00:19:24.720 I want to say the Flash. 305 00:19:24.779 --> 00:19:26.940 The ghost, the ghost. 306 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:28.680 Especially playing craft. 307 00:19:28.740 --> 00:19:30.359 Like a forgettable name for a superhero. 308 00:19:31.380 --> 00:19:32.640 It's a bad name, isn't it? 309 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:34.440 Like Ghost Man would have been better. 310 00:19:34.500 --> 00:19:35.279 Yeah. 311 00:19:35.339 --> 00:19:40.019 Like, I remember at the time thinking that he was going to call himself Doctor Mysterio. 312 00:19:40.079 --> 00:19:44.640 But of course, Mysterio could have got them in trouble with Marvel. unfortunately. 313 00:19:44.700 --> 00:19:47.880 So we know the origin of the title, Doctor Mysterio, don't we? 314 00:19:47.940 --> 00:19:48.420 Yes. 315 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:48.839 Yes. 316 00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:49.259 Yes. 317 00:19:49.319 --> 00:19:52.680 So in Spanish, the show is called Dr. Mysterio? 318 00:19:52.740 --> 00:19:53.400 That's right. 319 00:19:53.460 --> 00:20:03.000 And Peter Capaldi discovered that on that publicity world tour that happened in, I think, 2014, they were in Mexico, actually, and he discovered it was called Dr. Mysterio there. 320 00:20:03.059 --> 00:20:08.220 And according to Stephen Moffat, he's like, Capaldi just would not stop saying Dr. Mysterio for 3 weeks. 321 00:20:08.339 --> 00:20:11.039 The way he 1st says it and he does that little thing. 322 00:20:11.579 --> 00:20:15.900 I'll have that, you know, like he really gets into it. 323 00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:21.779 Again, that opening scene too, there he is with Little Grant as a kid, Little Grant is okay. 324 00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:24.059 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 325 00:20:24.119 --> 00:20:26.220 I mean, Moffatt's obsessed with child actors. 326 00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:27.240 Yeah, yeah. 327 00:20:27.299 --> 00:20:30.359 Look, I mean, I have a theory about children in Doctor Who. 328 00:20:30.420 --> 00:20:31.619 They're terrible. 329 00:20:31.680 --> 00:20:34.380 Well, children on television, generally. 330 00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:37.859 But having just made 10 episodes of Hardquick's kids, I can agree. 331 00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:40.440 Oh, wow. television are horrific. 332 00:20:40.980 --> 00:20:43.079 That's 40 children. 333 00:20:46.859 --> 00:20:51.240 But again, it's that softening the doctor's character, isn't it? 334 00:20:51.299 --> 00:20:57.059 softening the doctor's character by having him with a child by having him be silly by having him be Santa. 335 00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:05.579 And I just watching it again last night and seeing how the doctor, like gives him the little, you know, D-12. 336 00:21:05.579 --> 00:21:06.599 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 337 00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:08.519 And says, take this. 338 00:21:09.539 --> 00:21:12.180 After giving him water, like it is so sort of brilliant. 339 00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:13.079 Yeah, yeah. 340 00:21:13.140 --> 00:21:16.559 And unlike a lot of Moffat things where it's like, well, of course I meant the other thing. 341 00:21:16.619 --> 00:21:19.140 It's like, no, that is actually totally believable. 342 00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:19.980 Yes, yeah. 343 00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:23.339 And it's actually Grant who says it. you told me to take it. 344 00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:24.480 And you're a doctor. 345 00:21:24.539 --> 00:21:25.500 You're an doctor. 346 00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:26.700 I've got a cough. 347 00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:27.480 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 348 00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:30.359 It's the thing about Moth at Christmas specials. 349 00:21:30.420 --> 00:21:36.960 Even the lesser entries like this and the doctor, the widow and the wardrobe have a cracking opening to them, which really works well. 350 00:21:37.019 --> 00:21:43.200 I've been thinking about the, like, kids in Doctor Who, because Russell stays well away from them. 351 00:21:43.259 --> 00:21:43.859 Yeah. 352 00:21:43.859 --> 00:21:49.740 And I think it's because as kids, when we watched this show, there were no kids in it. 353 00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:56.279 And we were kids and it was a grown-up show, but it was a kids show, but it felt like we were watching grown-up TV. 354 00:21:56.339 --> 00:21:59.700 But as soon as you put kids in it, it's like, oh, no, this is a kid's show. 355 00:21:59.819 --> 00:22:01.740 Four kids with kids in it. 356 00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:19.319 I think, though, the reason that it never had kids in the classic series was that it never engaged properly with the real world, you know, so if it was Earth in the present day, we were on a scientific base, you know, do you remember when the guy, is it Watson calls home in hand of fear and says, say good night to the kids for me? 357 00:22:19.380 --> 00:22:20.940 It's kind of like, oh, wait, he has children. 358 00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:21.539 That's the thing. 359 00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:26.819 Because Doctor Who never deals with anything domestic and real. 360 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:35.819 And when Russell comes along, he starts having like adult human relationships, which is a new sort of thing for the show to do. 361 00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:36.900 Yeah, consequences. 362 00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:37.619 Yeah, yeah. 363 00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:42.299 And then and then we get children, which I think is is doing that a little bit further. 364 00:22:42.359 --> 00:22:43.440 Yeah. 365 00:22:43.500 --> 00:22:47.880 So it's bringing Doctor Who into our world in a definite kind of way. 366 00:22:47.940 --> 00:22:50.940 It's weird. now gone back to no kids. 367 00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:52.319 Has that a year of no kids? 368 00:22:52.380 --> 00:22:55.140 Oh no, we had that terrible child in Boo. 369 00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:56.400 That was a Moffat episode. 370 00:22:56.460 --> 00:22:57.299 Oh, yeah, that's great. 371 00:22:58.259 --> 00:23:03.420 There was also a practical reason because in classic Doctor, of course, Leah was shot at night in the studio. 372 00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:04.799 And they're expensive. 373 00:23:04.859 --> 00:23:07.619 Yeah, that's why I can tell you. can't have kids around for too long. 374 00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:08.579 Yeah, exactly. 375 00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:09.539 You know, doing long days. 376 00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:11.279 No, because they become annoying. 377 00:23:12.900 --> 00:23:18.539 Believe me, I used to work on high 5 surrounded by 400 or 5 year olds. 378 00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:20.940 I'd never go in there. 379 00:23:21.599 --> 00:23:28.920 Like, they say it's the law, but really, it's like, oh, no, get them out. 380 00:23:29.220 --> 00:23:32.099 They've turned crazy after 6 PM. 381 00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:35.940 Well, to give you an idea of what this set was like for children. 382 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:37.559 So we've got young Grant. 383 00:23:37.619 --> 00:23:41.759 We've got teenage grant, both of whom could only be on the set for 7 hours at a time. 384 00:23:41.819 --> 00:23:42.839 And an infant. 385 00:23:42.900 --> 00:23:45.059 You had Jennifer, little Jennifer? 386 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:47.400 Or infants playing Jennifer. 387 00:23:47.460 --> 00:23:48.900 Wow. 2 cents of twins. 388 00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:56.640 And so sometimes if it was a short day, just one set of twins would be called, if it was a longer day, both sets would be called at different times. 389 00:23:56.700 --> 00:23:58.140 So lots of juggling there. 390 00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:03.059 You're forgetting one five-year-old standing on the shoulders of another five-year-old playing Nadol. 391 00:24:04.859 --> 00:24:07.380 That's how he holds his head up. 392 00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:13.319 He was firm, but fair. 393 00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:16.440 I met Matt Lucas. lovely. 394 00:24:16.500 --> 00:24:18.000 Yeah, I get that impression. 395 00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:47.940 I love to read between the lines of, like, what's going on in production, and I like to imagine that at some point when Moffatt was, you know, starting out, that David Williams being the deranged Doctor Who fan that he is. 396 00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:49.799 Yeah, upset Moffat. don't know why. 397 00:24:49.859 --> 00:24:52.380 And so he cast Matt Lucas to look at him. 398 00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:52.680 Yeah. 399 00:24:52.740 --> 00:24:55.200 You can have one episode, David. 400 00:24:55.259 --> 00:24:58.680 Yeah, I'm giving him the whole tense series. 401 00:24:58.740 --> 00:24:59.460 Yes, yes. 402 00:25:00.779 --> 00:25:06.240 He is great and we do love him, but going back to what we were saying about Docs who being about 5 years behind the curve. 403 00:25:06.299 --> 00:25:08.700 Matt Lucas was huge about 5 years. 404 00:25:08.759 --> 00:25:10.140 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 405 00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:10.619 Yeah. 406 00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:13.380 Yeah, he would have been far more affordable at this point. 407 00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:23.339 I do feel like another sort of superhero touchstone for these is the 1940s Max Fleischer, Superman cartoons. 408 00:25:23.400 --> 00:25:29.160 And particularly, I was thinking this morning, what is it about this episode that falls a bit flat? 409 00:25:29.220 --> 00:25:33.839 And I think it's that the harmony show is villains. 410 00:25:33.900 --> 00:25:39.660 They're not really Doctor Who villains because they just ran into the doctor incidentally last episode. 411 00:25:39.720 --> 00:25:40.200 Yes. 412 00:25:40.259 --> 00:25:42.240 And they're not villains for the ghost. 413 00:25:42.299 --> 00:25:44.880 Like, he's not like, ah, yes, my old enemy's the Harmony show. 414 00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:45.839 Ah, yes. 415 00:25:45.900 --> 00:25:48.660 And, you know, that's what you see a lot in the Max Fleischer cartoons. 416 00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:51.660 You know, he's up against gangsters or robots. 417 00:25:51.720 --> 00:26:01.859 He's not up against, and I don't know if these people were in Superman's world at the time, but he's not up against Bizarro or Brainiac or needed a big sort of... 418 00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:04.559 Yeah, and someone the ghost had fought before. 419 00:26:04.619 --> 00:26:14.819 Like, it seems like the ghost is out there repairing Ferrous wheels and saving people from fires, which is great and amazing, but it's like, that's the 1st half hour of Sam Raimi's Spider-Man. 420 00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:18.960 Yep, you know, and what we're there for is the fight with the goblin. 421 00:26:19.019 --> 00:26:19.619 Yeah. 422 00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:20.279 Yeah. 423 00:26:20.339 --> 00:26:25.980 And so the harmony show have always been weird to me because they come out of nowhere. 424 00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:29.339 They get a cliffhanger ending here and then we never see or hear from them again. 425 00:26:29.339 --> 00:26:32.279 Also, the ghost hasn't gone anywhere. 426 00:26:32.339 --> 00:26:35.039 Like he still exists. technically. 427 00:26:35.099 --> 00:26:38.640 But the doctor says that he'll take over. 428 00:26:38.700 --> 00:26:45.180 The reason that the ghost has a role is because the doctor's been on Derylium for 24 years. 429 00:26:45.180 --> 00:26:48.240 And because we haven't seen the doctor for a year as well. 430 00:26:48.299 --> 00:26:54.299 So there's been this gap that hasn't had the doctor, which has allowed the ghost sometime to sort of do things. 431 00:26:54.359 --> 00:26:58.259 And so I think we understand that the ghost problem is kind of solved. 432 00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:02.880 He can't stop him from being a superhero, but he can take away the need for there to be a superhero. 433 00:27:02.940 --> 00:27:06.240 So I think that's going to be a 14th doctor. going to be domestic. 434 00:27:06.299 --> 00:27:07.859 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 435 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:13.079 And, you know, not not to mention the other consequence of this doctor taking year off is Ram loses a leg. 436 00:27:14.700 --> 00:27:16.440 He gets one back. 437 00:27:17.940 --> 00:27:20.099 God, class. 438 00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:22.980 Sorry. 439 00:27:23.339 --> 00:27:25.259 Still haven't finished. 440 00:27:25.319 --> 00:27:33.059 So, I mean, the harmony shoals in a way works really well for an episode like this because it's brains in jars and... 441 00:27:33.059 --> 00:27:34.319 Not a patch on the Keys of Marinas. 442 00:27:34.380 --> 00:27:36.359 It's people who love the Keys of Mariners. 443 00:27:36.420 --> 00:27:37.859 We know. 444 00:27:37.859 --> 00:27:40.500 Brains in jars are awesome. 445 00:27:40.619 --> 00:27:43.319 Why aren't they the brains from the Keys of Mariners? 446 00:27:43.380 --> 00:27:48.660 If you're going to have brains in Giles, Just go, yep, the harmony show with the brains of morpho all along. 447 00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:50.759 Oh my god, I would have loved that. 448 00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:53.039 And then the doctor goes, I'm sorry, who? 449 00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:58.440 I just love the little eyes in it as well, like that where the little eyes appear. 450 00:27:58.500 --> 00:28:01.319 You know, not the big eyes on socks, but the little eyes looking out of the brain. 451 00:28:01.380 --> 00:28:02.519 I think all of that's really great. 452 00:28:02.579 --> 00:28:05.160 I think that the surgeon's advancing on people is really great. 453 00:28:05.220 --> 00:28:14.579 I think that the scar, head scar, like Moffatt's sort of discovered that we can do this with computer generated things and we can have the backs of people's heads off or whatever. 454 00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:17.039 Icky, sort of... 455 00:28:17.099 --> 00:28:17.759 Yeah, yeah. 456 00:28:17.819 --> 00:28:19.559 Like, but that's proper Doctor Who should be too. 457 00:28:19.619 --> 00:28:21.599 Keeping the gun in there was amazing. 458 00:28:21.660 --> 00:28:22.380 Yeah, yeah. 459 00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:23.220 Just really... 460 00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:25.259 Not where Captain Jack kept here. 461 00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:32.940 So, I mean, they are kind of fun, but you're right. 462 00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:35.220 They don't belong in the superhero episode. 463 00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:38.099 No, it's hard to know what's going on here. 464 00:28:38.220 --> 00:28:41.279 Yeah, and their plan seems to be, what? 465 00:28:41.339 --> 00:28:42.000 is their plan? 466 00:28:42.059 --> 00:28:51.539 So their plan is to blow up New York with a rocket ship because that's what people do to New York with a bomb all the time. 467 00:28:51.599 --> 00:29:04.200 And then all of the world leaders run into the Harmony Shoals offices for safety because they've been built to stand a nuclear explosion. 468 00:29:04.500 --> 00:29:13.140 And then they get their brains replaced by other brains and step 3 profit. 469 00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:13.740 Yeah. 470 00:29:13.740 --> 00:29:21.180 So it's it's the Slovene... the sabine again. meets the autons from the spearhead from space. 471 00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:23.279 Okay, the autons have the right idea. 472 00:29:23.339 --> 00:29:25.740 Human Anaquins in a corner of the studio. 473 00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:36.180 The thing that I was surprised by was when we were suddenly in Harmony Shoals, Tokyo, and it's exactly the same set, but looking out into Tokyo. 474 00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:38.700 Yeah, you can tell because of the Tokyo cityscape outside. 475 00:29:38.819 --> 00:29:39.720 Oh, look, there's the tower. 476 00:29:39.779 --> 00:29:40.619 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 477 00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:41.700 There's more throng. 478 00:29:42.180 --> 00:29:54.359 But you have to think, well, that's the same idea that Tobias Vaughan had, and we didn't could have mentioned that for some reason, but because the invasion is so much better. invasion is great. 479 00:29:54.420 --> 00:30:03.119 That Tokyo scene actually leads into one of my favourite cut bits that is so unfortunate that we lost. 480 00:30:03.180 --> 00:30:14.880 So after he's flooded the foyer with Pokemon to get rid of everyone, which, you know, you kind of go, actually, at the time, Pokemon Go. At the time, that would have been, yeah. one person in the office does come up to him and say, you can't do that. 481 00:30:14.940 --> 00:30:16.019 And he's like, well, I am. 482 00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:17.579 Oh, okay. 483 00:30:17.640 --> 00:30:20.039 And then the doctor turns to him and says, do you fancy a cup of tea? 484 00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:20.940 And the guy's like, yes. 485 00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:21.420 Me too. 486 00:30:21.480 --> 00:30:22.619 If you're making one, off you go. 487 00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:24.960 And that's the tea that the doctor adopted. 488 00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:27.599 Not a dollar drinking. 489 00:30:27.660 --> 00:30:30.480 So the thing is, that still works as a really cool moment. 490 00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:39.119 But in even earlier drafts, they then dragged around this poor Japanese technician for the rest of the story. making them tea. 491 00:30:39.180 --> 00:30:40.799 Maybe that's what the doctor was speaking to. 492 00:30:40.859 --> 00:30:42.119 The doctor was talking to. 493 00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:43.680 I think I think possibly. 494 00:30:43.740 --> 00:30:46.259 But yeah, it's just kind of like 5 minutes later they go, what are you doing here? 495 00:30:46.319 --> 00:30:47.819 Tell me to folly. 496 00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:22.680 So, the other thing that I want to talk about is what this is doing, because we've talked a lot, I think, about Moffat and his, you know, his interest in sort of gender politics and stuff, usually Moffat's men are sort of incompetent and there's a competent woman who kind of bosses them around and kind of puts up with them and that kind of thing. 497 00:31:22.740 --> 00:31:24.059 And that's not, which is his real life. 498 00:31:24.119 --> 00:31:29.460 Like, you know, he's always had many wives slash producers telling you, yeah, yeah. 499 00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:30.599 Wives, mothers-in-law. 500 00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:32.640 Julia Swala. 501 00:31:32.759 --> 00:31:32.940 Yeah. 502 00:31:32.940 --> 00:31:33.839 Yeah. 503 00:31:33.900 --> 00:31:35.400 Well, yes, yeah. 504 00:31:35.460 --> 00:31:44.700 And so here, though, we do have a man who is incredibly competent and dedicated. 505 00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:48.839 So him being a superhero is essentially him being a nanny. 506 00:31:48.900 --> 00:31:54.599 You know, there's that moment at the end where she says, I want you to put your superhero costume on. 507 00:31:54.599 --> 00:31:56.579 And it's the glasses. 508 00:31:57.059 --> 00:31:58.500 Yeah. 509 00:31:58.559 --> 00:31:59.759 It's cute. 510 00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:03.180 It's one of the only bits I liked. 511 00:32:04.740 --> 00:32:09.779 Something I really like about that whole thing and the love triangle. 512 00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:22.440 Some sort of picks up on something in Lois and Clark, because when Lois finds out Clark is Superman, she's more hurt by him not trusting her enough to tell her than she is by the actual deception itself. 513 00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:28.559 And she's like, her whole thing is, I still would have cared for you if you were just Clark. 514 00:32:28.619 --> 00:32:29.339 Yeah. 515 00:32:29.339 --> 00:32:31.500 You know, but to care for Clark and Superman. 516 00:32:31.559 --> 00:32:33.539 I was kind of dividing myself when I didn't have to. 517 00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:39.720 And here, Moffat in his Christmas specials often has a tragic romance. 518 00:32:39.779 --> 00:32:48.660 So you've got Kazran and Abigail and, you know, Kazran has saved but also wasted their time together. 519 00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:49.799 You know what I mean? 520 00:32:49.859 --> 00:32:59.880 You've got Madge and Reg, and they, like, they think it's all gone wrong, but then it's fine, and that sort of tells doctor, no, you're allowed to care about people, et cetera. 521 00:32:59.940 --> 00:33:01.619 You've got River and the doctor last year. 522 00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:07.740 You've got Clara having to choose between like a fantasy life with Danny or real life. 523 00:33:07.799 --> 00:33:08.519 Yeah. 524 00:33:08.519 --> 00:33:11.220 You'll have the 12th doctor and the 1st doctor next. 525 00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:12.480 Yes, that's right. 526 00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:21.599 But in this one, you know, I think that line from the doctor, some things are far too stupid to continue. 527 00:33:21.660 --> 00:33:26.160 The doctor knows what it is like to ignore that connection and that love. 528 00:33:26.220 --> 00:33:29.759 And he's sort of putting his foot down and saying, you are not making my mistakes. 529 00:33:29.819 --> 00:33:36.180 And it goes back to what he says to Kazran. like, it's either kiss the girl or lock yourself in the room and make a new screwdriver. 530 00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:37.440 Yeah, yeah. 531 00:33:37.500 --> 00:33:53.819 And that's something I find is really lovely, especially for Capaldi's doctor, having been so emotionally distant early on, recognises that this relationship is important and needs to be saved and protected. 532 00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:54.599 Yeah. 533 00:33:54.599 --> 00:33:58.680 And to me, that's what sells it, is the doctor's interest in it. 534 00:33:58.740 --> 00:34:01.920 Like, no, and I mean, no disrespect to grant or charity's performances. 535 00:34:01.980 --> 00:34:04.500 There's nothing wrong with that, and I do believe the romance between them. 536 00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:10.619 But the doctor telling us how important it is that really sells it to me. 537 00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:14.699 And it sort of puts a button on that whole thing Moffatt's had with tragic romances. 538 00:34:14.760 --> 00:34:16.980 I think I think the line. 539 00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:25.019 There are some things, some situations that are too stupid to be allowed to continue, which is absolutely one of my favourite ever Doctor Who line. 540 00:34:25.079 --> 00:34:34.920 Yes, in the whole run of the show is a kind of metatextual thing. because the mistaken identity thing is so dumb. and so obvious. 541 00:34:34.980 --> 00:34:38.699 And like they're so stupid for not being able to pick up on it. 542 00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:40.980 And the doctor kind of can't believe it. 543 00:34:41.039 --> 00:34:57.119 But I do like, you know, there's that moment where they're sitting out on the fire escape and the doctor raises his drink and says, you know, thanks to the universe because he's not the worst person at romantic relationships, like in BC, which is really great. 544 00:34:57.239 --> 00:35:00.119 Like, that's really great because it's the 1st time you get Capoli. 545 00:35:00.179 --> 00:35:16.980 Well, no, I mean, we had the most romantic moment, maybe in Doctor Who's history, which is that end, you know, the final bit of last year's Christmas special, which allows Capaldi to be romantic in a way that he hadn't been able to be at all in those years. 546 00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:19.500 So it's kind of finally allows River to be age appropriate. 547 00:35:19.559 --> 00:35:21.659 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 548 00:35:21.900 --> 00:35:28.079 I thought this was endearing, but it's sort of the story of the episode and that it wasn't really striving for very much. 549 00:35:28.139 --> 00:35:33.239 The reason I wasn't invested was because there's really no edge to either Grant or Lucy. 550 00:35:33.300 --> 00:35:35.099 They're both just quite nice people. 551 00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:38.400 And there's nothing really to root for them to turn it around. 552 00:35:38.460 --> 00:35:41.880 They just sort of, she just has to realise that he has him. 553 00:35:41.940 --> 00:35:42.360 He's him. 554 00:35:42.420 --> 00:35:43.440 Yeah, that's it. 555 00:35:43.500 --> 00:35:45.360 It's almost like they've gone. 556 00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:46.320 Can they do the accent? 557 00:35:46.380 --> 00:35:47.159 That'll do. 558 00:35:47.219 --> 00:35:48.420 Yeah, yeah. 559 00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:49.440 He is American. 560 00:35:49.500 --> 00:35:50.219 Yeah, he is. 561 00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:51.900 Maybe she should have been, I'm just saying. 562 00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:58.380 But it's just, yeah, I also get really, I don't know what it is when there's too many Americans in an episode of Doctor Who. 563 00:35:58.440 --> 00:35:59.579 Sales less light doctor. 564 00:35:59.639 --> 00:36:00.659 What am I watching? 565 00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:01.800 This is not my show. 566 00:36:02.099 --> 00:36:04.739 What's that that location? 567 00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:09.780 The thing where Grant and Lucy live. 568 00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:12.900 It's an outdoor sound stage in Bulgaria. 569 00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:13.739 Right, okay. 570 00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:14.400 Yeah, okay. 571 00:36:14.460 --> 00:36:20.280 And Justin and Charity, when they heard, oh, overseas shoot, they thought they were going to New York. 572 00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:21.960 Yeah, no problem. 573 00:36:22.019 --> 00:36:28.679 It's like we're going to Bulgaria because A, it's closer and also B, it's a film set and we don't have to close down a New York City block. 574 00:36:28.739 --> 00:36:30.059 Do you have any idea how much that cost? 575 00:36:30.119 --> 00:36:30.900 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 576 00:36:30.900 --> 00:36:32.519 Doctor Who was not going to be out? 577 00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:39.960 And then they hired a local actor there for to double for Capaldi in the long shots of like him on the... 578 00:36:40.019 --> 00:36:48.420 There's a cut line from that bit on the fire escape when he's chatting to Grant about the situation and the doctors have something wrong lines off. 579 00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:49.380 So let me get this straight. 580 00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:57.780 Your cunning plan in looking after your unrequited high school sweetheart's baby is to then disguise yourself as a superhero, to distract her from you. 581 00:36:58.380 --> 00:37:01.320 And it goes, yeah, that's about it. 582 00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:06.780 There are some situations they're too stupid. 583 00:37:07.260 --> 00:37:11.639 I think too, when I was a kid, I just loved Margot Kidder. 584 00:37:11.699 --> 00:37:14.159 Oh, she was so so superb. 585 00:37:14.219 --> 00:37:19.079 And there was just that sort of slight hysterical edge and the chain smoking. 586 00:37:19.139 --> 00:37:21.539 The chain smutching. for God sake. 587 00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:25.500 Like when he looks at her lungs and goes, oh, not yet, but it's not great. 588 00:37:26.820 --> 00:37:28.800 Unbelievable. 589 00:37:28.860 --> 00:37:30.599 She was so, so superb. 590 00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:34.079 And we do, there is a sort of an attempt. 591 00:37:34.139 --> 00:37:37.079 She was of that era, wasn't she? 592 00:37:37.139 --> 00:37:39.960 She's like, Marion Ravenwood in Raiders of the Lost Us. 593 00:37:40.019 --> 00:37:40.739 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 594 00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:43.500 They sort of the female lead with real gumption. 595 00:37:43.559 --> 00:37:44.579 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 596 00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:47.880 It's like, I am not a damsel in distress. 597 00:37:47.940 --> 00:37:49.019 Please don't save me. 598 00:37:49.079 --> 00:37:49.920 Yeah, yeah. 599 00:37:49.980 --> 00:37:53.400 Whereas, I mean, I think Lucy's quite good. 600 00:37:53.460 --> 00:37:59.820 And I don't dislike the Mr. Huffle scene, which everyone else seems to sort of really hate. 601 00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:00.539 Really strange. 602 00:38:00.659 --> 00:38:01.679 It is very strange. 603 00:38:01.739 --> 00:38:04.440 It would have been improved if she was doing it to Nadal, not this. 604 00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:04.679 Yeah. 605 00:38:04.739 --> 00:38:12.719 I mean, I think the point is, like, no one quite knows how to play it, and clearly there's a toy that Moffat's discovered and he wants to do a beer. 606 00:38:12.780 --> 00:38:16.860 And so because it makes this sort of human squealing. you know, the doctor is. 607 00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:25.139 It's a bit like Tom saying that he can't bear to be tortured by someone with cold hands. where what's his face? 608 00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:25.860 Peter Halliday. 609 00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:28.440 Peter Halliday's using the thumbscrews on him. 610 00:38:28.679 --> 00:38:34.380 So it's a little bit like that, you know, like it's got a sort of human squeal, but it's sort of quiet work. 611 00:38:34.440 --> 00:38:44.099 But so she is a bit kind of demented, you know, like and a bit she's fierce, but it doesn't really properly land for some reason. 612 00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:45.059 Yeah. 613 00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:46.199 It's, you know what? 614 00:38:46.260 --> 00:38:47.820 I think that I don't know. 615 00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:49.500 You guys went to see it at the cinema. 616 00:38:49.559 --> 00:38:55.079 It feels weird as an episode when you think there was nothing for an entire year. 617 00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:55.920 Yeah, yeah. 618 00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:57.780 This is your 1st Doctor Who back. 619 00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:00.480 And you're like, this isn't really Doctor Who. 620 00:39:00.539 --> 00:39:01.199 Yeah. 621 00:39:01.260 --> 00:39:03.539 This is like a superhero thing with Doctor Who in it. 622 00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:06.900 Like, it's not, and everyone's behaving really strangely. 623 00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:08.519 Well, and they shunt him to the side. 624 00:39:08.579 --> 00:39:11.159 Yeah, like he's off fascing about on that space. 625 00:39:11.219 --> 00:39:12.179 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 626 00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:14.340 Yeah, I think I think that's that's the thing. 627 00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:16.079 Like, there's so many different things in this. 628 00:39:16.139 --> 00:39:20.880 It's a superhero thing and it's a Doctor Who thing and it's a screwball comedy and it's a romance. 629 00:39:20.940 --> 00:39:23.760 And we haven't had Doctor Who on for a year. 630 00:39:23.880 --> 00:39:29.699 This suffers, I think, a bit from what I call legend of the sea devil syndrome. 631 00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:30.179 Yeah. 632 00:39:30.179 --> 00:39:31.860 In that, it's not crap. 633 00:39:33.119 --> 00:39:34.559 Wow. 634 00:39:35.940 --> 00:39:48.360 If this was episode 7 of a full season, I think we would feel about it a lot more fondly, as as a fun romp, because that's the thing, all of the things I look at this and go, oh, that's not great. 635 00:39:48.420 --> 00:39:50.519 It's not crap, as you say. 636 00:39:50.579 --> 00:39:51.480 It's not bad. 637 00:39:51.539 --> 00:39:52.800 We're laughing about it. 638 00:39:52.860 --> 00:39:54.300 And I think we're not laughing. 639 00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:56.940 We're laughing about it more than we're laughing at it. 640 00:39:57.000 --> 00:39:58.139 Yeah, you know. 641 00:39:58.199 --> 00:40:01.500 And even the Mr. Huffle thing, which is so freaking bizarre. 642 00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:02.820 Yeah, so odd. 643 00:40:02.820 --> 00:40:03.900 And unnecessary. 644 00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:06.480 Yeah. and then they make a Mr. Huffle toy. 645 00:40:06.539 --> 00:40:07.139 Oh yeah. 646 00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:09.000 But do they make a ghost action figure? 647 00:40:09.059 --> 00:40:09.780 No, no. 648 00:40:09.840 --> 00:40:11.579 Do they make another doll action figure? 649 00:40:11.639 --> 00:40:12.000 No. 650 00:40:12.059 --> 00:40:14.039 Are they making action figures at this point? 651 00:40:14.099 --> 00:40:15.539 No, and I'm still not over it. 652 00:40:16.619 --> 00:40:25.079 The other thing that Mr. Huffle does is he's used as a symbol for Capaldi's heartbreak about losing him a song. 653 00:40:25.139 --> 00:40:29.820 And like this twice. where we kind of mention how he feels pain. 654 00:40:29.940 --> 00:40:32.340 And then we get a shot of Mr. Hartful. 655 00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:34.139 Why are we doing that? 656 00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:36.119 Are you sure it was good? 657 00:40:36.179 --> 00:40:39.059 Are you sure it was a good choice for Ed to come back to directness? 658 00:40:39.119 --> 00:40:40.440 Yeah, I don't know. 659 00:40:40.739 --> 00:40:43.320 But is this the tail wagging the dog? 660 00:40:43.380 --> 00:40:45.840 Does Mr. Huffle approved as a toy? 661 00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:48.119 And they went, can we get it in the show? 662 00:40:48.179 --> 00:40:51.599 Maybe all their plans went wrong because true story. 663 00:40:51.659 --> 00:40:56.760 Someone had bought up the domain for Mr. Huffle.com so that the BBC couldn't. 664 00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:00.059 It wasn't me, by the way. 665 00:41:03.119 --> 00:41:05.639 Joining the podcast family. 666 00:41:05.699 --> 00:41:08.340 It's just 50 minutes of squeaking. 667 00:41:10.980 --> 00:41:11.940 It's a commentary one. 668 00:41:13.559 --> 00:41:17.639 Watches whole episodes and just squeaks and bits that are annoying. 669 00:41:18.360 --> 00:41:21.780 Just squeaks and Simon saying I don't think it was very good. 670 00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:26.579 7.34. 671 00:41:55.199 --> 00:41:58.380 Well, dear listener, that's all time we've got for now. 672 00:41:58.440 --> 00:42:08.400 We'll be back in a few weeks' time for the start of Peter Capoldi's last year as the doctor, with a new job, a new mission, and a wonderful new companion in The Pilot. 673 00:42:08.579 --> 00:42:26.880 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us on our website, flightthroughentirety.com, where you'll find our social media links, as well as links to all of our other podcasts, including our other Doctor Who podcasts, 500-year diary, and the 2nd grade and bountiful human empire. 674 00:42:27.059 --> 00:42:33.000 Until next time, remember man, you don't get a trophy for stacking the dishwasher correctly. 675 00:42:33.059 --> 00:42:35.519 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 676 00:42:35.579 --> 00:42:36.719 You get to live. 677 00:42:36.780 --> 00:42:37.500 Good night. 678 00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:38.639 Good night. 679 00:42:38.760 --> 00:42:39.659 Good night. 680 00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:50.219 That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffith, Brendan Jones, and Adam Richard. 681 00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:52.860 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. 682 00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:59.039 This episode, Finger on the Zeitgeist, was recorded on the 21st of July 2024 and released on the 25th of July. 683 00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:07.079 Since we last spoke, Flight Through Entirety celebrated its 10th birthday on the 26th of May 2024. 684 00:43:07.320 --> 00:43:16.860 To celebrate this milestone, we put together a history of the first 10 years of the podcast, which you can check out at flightthroughentirety.com slash 10th. 685 00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:26.039 The funny thing being, our dishwasher is just a cupboard because rod has so much crockery. 686 00:43:26.099 --> 00:43:29.639 Oh, our oven's a cupboard. 687 00:43:30.059 --> 00:43:32.519 And the microwave is a cupboard. 688 00:43:32.579 --> 00:43:35.400 And the air fryer is also a cupboard. 689 00:43:35.460 --> 00:43:38.519 This is a bit of a drink. recording a company. 690 00:43:38.579 --> 00:43:38.940 Yeah, yeah. 691 00:43:38.940 --> 00:43:39.780 Cook in the closet. 692 00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:42.480 I wonder what that jelly mould was doing there. 693 00:43:42.539 --> 00:43:46.860 When you brought up the dishwasher, I was like, 0 my God, are we doing it as time goes by podcast? 694 00:43:47.280 --> 00:43:50.159 There's a lot of dishwasher chat in that show. 695 00:43:50.219 --> 00:43:53.159 Yeah, it was someone's topic on hard quiz. 696 00:43:53.219 --> 00:43:54.539 I had to watch a lot Oh wow. 697 00:43:54.599 --> 00:43:56.340 Dishwashers. 698 00:43:57.420 --> 00:44:00.420 No, as time goes by. 699 00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:01.860 I hardly know it. 700 00:44:01.920 --> 00:44:03.300 Oh my god. 701 00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:06.539 That joke would be sophisticated and funny. 702 00:44:07.320 --> 00:44:09.179 For that joke. 703 00:44:09.239 --> 00:44:10.380 No, is it? 704 00:44:10.380 --> 00:44:12.539 It's Judy Dench and Jeffrey Palmer. 705 00:44:12.599 --> 00:44:13.679 Oh, writing. 706 00:44:13.739 --> 00:44:14.940 Oh, wait, it's not the one. 707 00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:20.400 What's the one where Geoffrey Palmer regenerates into Peter Bowles? 708 00:44:20.460 --> 00:44:23.699 Oh no, that's the other way around, but that was... 709 00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:24.599 No, yeah, it is. 710 00:44:24.659 --> 00:44:28.320 Yeah, no, because Peter Bowles is the person you get if you can't catch Jeffrey Palmer. 711 00:44:28.380 --> 00:44:29.880 Yeah, that was the Penelope Heath one. 712 00:44:29.940 --> 00:44:30.780 Executive stress? 713 00:44:30.840 --> 00:44:31.500 Maybe. 714 00:44:31.559 --> 00:44:32.460 Yeah, yeah. 715 00:44:32.519 --> 00:44:33.239 Something like that. 716 00:44:33.300 --> 00:44:38.219 As time goes by, as what they call a gentle British sitcom, which means a joke race of like one every 5 minutes. 717 00:44:38.280 --> 00:44:39.000 Yeah. 718 00:44:39.059 --> 00:44:40.739 Sometimes one every 5 episodes. 719 00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:44.219 Maybe just the same joke over and over. 720 00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:49.559 Frequently it's Judy Dench, peeling potatoes or putting something in the oven. 721 00:44:49.619 --> 00:44:51.239 Well, now, you make me want to watch that. 722 00:44:51.840 --> 00:44:54.480 She does a lot of appealing. 723 00:44:56.099 --> 00:45:10.619 There is actually early on a very gentle, gay panic subplot in there because Jeffrey Palmer thinks that his male publicist might have a crush on him, but it's diffused by the fact that the male publicist's response is, I'm not by, lie. 724 00:45:11.039 --> 00:45:12.900 Oh my God. 725 00:45:12.960 --> 00:45:14.639 Oh my goodness. 726 00:45:14.699 --> 00:45:18.059 But like he's a 90s yuppie. the whole of the 1st season. 727 00:45:18.179 --> 00:45:21.420 Actually, does he have a crush on the daughter, the secretary, or is he gay? 728 00:45:21.480 --> 00:45:22.739 If he's gay. 729 00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:24.239 Why doesn't he have a crush on Judy Dent? 730 00:45:24.360 --> 00:45:32.099 And the whole thing starts when Jeffrey Palmer goes out on a date with Judy Dencher's daughter and then realises he used to date them up. 731 00:45:33.000 --> 00:45:34.739 In the 40s. 732 00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:36.000 It's gross. 733 00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:38.820 All kinds of it. 734 00:45:40.619 --> 00:45:44.400 I remember going to the cinema to see this, Brendan.