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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:55:55

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast on Constant Alert against the threat of Shark Attack.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd.

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I'm James.

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And my knee, my name's Tegan Javanka.

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I'd like to speak to the pilot.

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Oh my God, Peter.

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Well, we mostly took 2016 off after using up all the ideas we had for the show, but now we're back for one last year and taking the opportunity to make a completely fresh start.

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So let's see how that goes as we discuss the pilot.

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It was interesting listening to you last episode about the fact that Nardal was put into that Christmas special and wasn't going to be there because I can't believe that this would have just been his introduction in sort of in the background doing things.

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Like it's a bit of a nothingness, really.

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And so I just can't imagine, like, I know he's not around a lot because we've got to introduce Bill.

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Yeah.

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And she has to have 3 or 4 episodes because she's a one and done companion. we know that coming into this?

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I think we suspected that.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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But it's just interesting seeing this introduction of Bill and the sort of the beats that Stephen plays in this compared to other companions that have been introduced over the last 6 or 7 years because, like we had an Adol last week, he was suddenly just there.

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Yeah.

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And if I look back at the last, maybe the last 4 episodes, like we had the end of Clara, which was exhausting, but that dynamic had been in the show for 3 years, and she'd been around.

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So, and then we had River, and that was a different dynamic with the Capaldi doctor showing different aspects of him.

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And then we had Nadol last week.

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And it's the only male Tartars team we've had since the keeper of Trark and really.

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I mean, yeah, we had Planet of Fire, but Turlo was out and Perry was coming in.

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And now we've got a different dynamic again, having to introduce another companion, and we're just used to a certain rhythm and there's certain beats in this where I kind of think, oh, I don't know if I like that, but it's just a different flavour.

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If you go back, look, even Clara wasn't introduced the normal way.

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Like, suddenly the doctor was after her.

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You look at Amy.

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We had young Amy first.

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Look at Donna, like she was coming back, finding the doctor.

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The last time we had a true companion who just sort of appeared on the scene, was in fact with Martha.

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And then all Doctor Who companions are sort of these high concept people that just automatically, like people die and they just accept it.

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Whereas with Bill with this, over, and I'm sort of going ahead with these episodes, she's just got a different kind of rhythm and a different energy.

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And, you know, in the 3rd episode she's really going to question death.

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But even here, it's like, you know, Dr. Watt, and all this, a kitchen, I like sci-fi.

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There's certain things where I kind of think, oh, is that working?

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And the whole rhythm of Peter Capaldi, like we've had, as I said, 4 different episodes with him having to play the doctor slightly differently, and now he's getting written, as you mentioned, last week, much more like Matt Smith, which I didn't pick up on.

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And so I just find this episode really intriguing to see how that rhythm plays out through the episode and her introduction and everybody's slightly quirky between the doctor and Nardol.

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Sorry to sort of monopolise this.

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No, no, exactly what you mean.

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This feels like Moffat, I think, has been freed up a little bit because he's starting off his 6th series, a showrunner, and he's essentially doing the same thing that he's had to do on which Russell had to do many times, which is introduce an earthbound companion.

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He just adopts a really relaxed way of doing it.

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And so Bill's 1st scene is almost like a casting scene.

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He comes in and is cast by the doctor.

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Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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It's almost as if that actually could have been her audition piece, in a way.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Although probably her audition piece was that terrible friend from the future.

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But let's not go there just yet.

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I think it's really nice that she's just a fairly normal person.

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She's not one of these superhero companions who kind of like blunders or fumbles their way into the Tartars.

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She just kind of appears and the doctor is interested in her rather than her being interested in the doctor.

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He sort of takes her under his wing and has seen that she has potential and just sort of wants to play with that.

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And it's a really nice introduction for a new companion.

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I think relaxed is the right way of putting it.

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So that scene is really very unusual.

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So the pre-credit scene is entirely just the one scene, and it opens with that very kind of symmetrical shot, you know, of the 2 doors with the desk in between them.

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We just hear the clock ticking, and then we just have this dialogue, and it is a piece that's written to introduce these 2 actors and show us how they work together.

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They're not meeting for the 1st time.

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They both know one another.

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So we never see the meat for the 1st time.

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He's seen her in the lectures and has formed an opinion about her.

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She's been to the lectures and has formed an opinion about him.

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We've got some jobs to do in this scene.

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We need to reveal that Bill is a lesbian.

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We need to reveal the doctor's new job and that the doctor's been there for a long period of time.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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All of that stuff we need to introduce, and it's done incredibly well, and it's done in a way that's funny.

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And I think the Dr. Watt thing at the end before we go into the opening credits is that Moffatt is going to use Bill to kind of undermine the doctor a little bit.

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So the doctor has a tendency to be a bit pompous, and because she's not really on board, she's not like the perfect companion the way that Clara was, she's not born to be the doctor's companion, almost, you know, from childhood, the way that Amy was.

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She's just a person that he mad.

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And without all that high concept stuff without having the doctor having gone back into her past to see her as a child or anything like that, none of that, it's just a person that she met.

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And so he's doing something new.

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And I think it works incredibly well.

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And there's the thing we go into the, after the opening credits, we go into a lecture, and the doctor's giving a lecture about time, and he's saying that time, the passage of time is an illusion, that time doesn't really pass when you're watching a movie, movies are a series of still pictures, and that events, you know, that events don't just sort of go in order, and that's the doctor commenting on the way this is being told, because this story actually is more than a year, isn't it?

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Like we see Christmas.

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We see summer.

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Yeah, change of seasons.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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All of that stuff.

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So, so what we get, instead of the usual thing, we get the relationship between the doctor and build developing over months and months, and we get just these little bits and pieces, these little vignettes.

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And it's not really until about 20 minutes into the episode that it starts to be a normal Doctor Who episode.

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It's like a biopic, you know, when you, you, you see a film that someone's, someone's life and it just has little bits and pieces from their life.

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I guess the moment that I saw it really was just that scene where she comes into the doctor's study and she sees that the Christmas rug is now under the TARDIS and she comments on it and then we're out.

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Like, then we're out.

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There's certain ways of storytelling.

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Doctor Who does it sometimes and things like turn left and 73 yards where you just drop in on someone's life every so often just to catch up on what's happened to them.

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And this way of introducing a new companion is a really interesting way of doing it because normally a companion has to kind of jump into the doctor's life and accept so much and it sort of begs belief a little bit, whereas the gentle way that Bill gets to know him introduces us to this new format quite gently as well.

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And I really like that.

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It's a very peaceful opening episode, which isn't trying to dance on the head of a pen and do too much and be too crazy.

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It's just saying, okay, we know what Doctor Who is.

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We've done this before.

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Let's have a nice solid stately doctor 2 episode.

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Yeah, I think I think the beginning of it.

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The way that it's told differently from a normal Doctor Who episode actually bumps this up in my estimation.

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This puts it among the best episodes that Moffatt has done.

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Because what Moffatt's doing is another formal experiment, and he does it with the 11th hour, right from his 1st episode, where it's like, okay, I have to create this show Abinitio, you know, like new, everyone's been watching it kind of thing, so they kind of know what the deal is, but I've got a completely new cast and I've got to introduce it.

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I'm going to put the doctor on the back foot and I'm going to have him save the world in 45 minutes without the title, so the Sonic screwdriver.

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Here he's doing the same thing.

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He's saying, all right, let's pretend no one's watched this before and I'm introducing the entire concept of Doctor Who for the 1st time.

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And so that's how he does it.

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So it starts very, very differently.

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It starts a little bit like an unearthly child where we're in an educational institution and, you know, only this time it's the teacher that's kind of unearthly.

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Do you think he had charter on his mind a little bit when he was writing this?

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A little bit.

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I mean, we have a picture of Susan on the desk. you know.

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So we're introducing the whole concept, again, from the beginning.

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And I think just doing that.

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Like, I'm so, I'm so on board with doing things in Doctor Who that we haven't done before.

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And you mentioned 73 yards, Peter, but this is like that as well, but it's much less high concept.

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This is a way that you tell stories all the time on television, but Doctor Who never does it, and it's great to see it try.

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It feels like the introduction to sort of a miniseries on Netflix, does it?

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Where they introduce the characters.

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I also think it plays into the fact that Moffat probably, you've always said that Moffat rebels against what he's done previously.

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He probably felt the need to get away from a high concept companion.

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He had them with both Amy and Clara.

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And so when he introduces Bill.

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He probably recognised that he had to do the same thing that Joe Grant did for the 3rd doctor, and he needed a companion, who just warms the doctor up, and she does that constantly throughout this episode and the season.

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And she plays into that quirky kind of companion that we see every so often, like Joe, like Dodo, like Romana 2, who just kind of jolly their doctor up a little bit.

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And I think that's such a nice thing to do for this whole season.

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They kind of puncture their pomposity.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And it works because this has, like, Capaldi has absolutely nailed it by now.

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This is one of the best sustained performances as the doctor ever this season.

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Do you remember how Christopher Eccleston's doctor went back in time and gave Billy Piper a bike for Christmas when she was 12.

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Red bike for Christmas when you were driving.

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Is that the empty child?

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Yeah, yeah, that's Moffat.

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Here, that wonderful moment, that incredible Christmas where she comes, she brings the rug.

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There's that hilarious line where he says, I didn't get you anything and she says, well, it didn't cost very much.

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But then he gets her something.

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He goes back in time, takes photos of her mother after she says she's got no photos of her mother, and in the very next scene we see, her going through the photos and weeping, and we see the photos, and obviously that will play into a terrible episode later in the season.

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But then she goes back into his study and the TARDIS has moved. the rugs under the TARDIS, and clearly it's under the TARDIS because he's moved the TARDIS to go back in time and visit the mother.

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And it doesn't go anywhere.

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Like we see her see what might be the doctor in the background, you know, in the mirror taking the photo, but she never says anything and it never comes up again.

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And no conclusions drawn from it because that's how the story's being told at the moment.

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It's those shots.

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Remember when the sort of the field of view pulls back and we see a series of images, steel images from different points of time in the narrative.

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That's how the narrative's being told at this point.

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I would have liked to have been party to that scene where the doctor just turned up to Bill's mother and said, I'm just going to take some photos of you.

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I'm very impressed by this discussion because listeners, I work on a much simpler level, which has nice intro sequence.

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What's going on with Susan and shot very differently, but you've just articulated everything that I kind of encapsulated in my just lemme gas has gone from a 7.5 to a 7.75.

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It's actually solidified, isn't it?

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eight?

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So it's actually gone up in my estimations.

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But everything that you're saying is totally true.

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And I think it's a testament to Stephen Moffat that 6 seasons in, 7 years or whatever.

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He can still do this, whereas I think other people struggle.

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Well, because he's not relying on it being a puzzle box.

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This is incredibly straightforward.

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It's very, very straightforward.

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There's no kind of twists or loops.

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There's no things that, you know, initially means something and then later means something else.

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He's allowed the episode to be funny.

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Like there's some really great funny lines.

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It's properly scary in all sorts of ways.

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This guy, the director who is called Lawrence Goff.

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What's he directed before?

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So maybe Whitney Houston's I want to dance with him.

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No, he all he's done for Doctor Who is this and smile, and he did friend from the future.

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Oh, well, that's one black mark against him.

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Yeah, so that came out to introduce Bill. that was introducing Bill, it came out like earlier in the year.

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Cup.

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Yeah, it was World Cup, wasn't it?

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Yeah.

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It's not very good.

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It is.

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When Moffatt writes the pilot, he actually kind of almost includes that scene with the Daleks and the Movellans in order to kind of make that scene canon.

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But in fact, there's a moment where, like, Bill says, what is it?

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And the doctor says it's a dalek and she says, what's that?

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And the doctor says, oh, you know, it doesn't matter.

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It just a dalek.

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And in the episode that we see she smiles, and all I can think of is that brilliant line in the opening scene where the doctor says, when most people encounter something they don't understand, they frown, but you smile.

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And that's, you know, that's actually better than what we see in Friend from the Future, which is a bit too much, I think.

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That friend from the future thing. was so appalling that I was so put off by the character.

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And I just kind of thought, oh, no.

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And and then we were hearing like, oh, Nadols had to be introduced because she's not very good and all this sort of stuff.

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So I was on the back foot, you know, to begin with, has sort of proved me wrong that you're not terrible, right?

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But in fact, not always written in because Matt Lucas contacts him and says, I really enjoyed working with you.

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Can I be in more?

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And so they, he asked to be written back in a bit of a Catherine Tate situation.

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Well, I can't believe that because he gave up other work to be in Doctor Who.

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He gave up on a pilot in America to be indoct.

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Look, gave up on a pilot, shoot the pilot.

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I think that's incredible because like I can't imagine this season without him.

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Yeah.

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And the fact that how he is actually used, as I said, in these 1st few episodes giving space for Bill, and then that team just sort of takes off mid-season.

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The reason I think that Friend from the Future doesn't work is that it picks up on one particular aspect of Bill's character, which is quite funny in the context of the episode, the fact that she's very literal.

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And it just kind of focusses on that without any of the warming up and the introduction to the character.

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So she seems like a bit weird and a bit of an idiot in Friend from the Future.

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I think this episode kind of teeters on the edge of that a little bit.

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It goes to that well too often.

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Yeah.

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Like the Dr. Watt thing is brilliant.

196
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Like that's perfect because that is what you would say.

197
00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:21.180
And it just reminds you of the Christmas invasion, you know, tenants 1st episode.

198
00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:25.079
We go into the credits with Jackie saying Doctor Who.

199
00:17:25.140 --> 00:17:30.660
So having her say Dr. Watt and then going into the Doctor Who title sequence, I think is kind of perfect.

200
00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:41.099
But it takes too long, I think, for her to realise, you know, Nadol and the doctor kind of are both going, wow, it's taking a long time to get to.

201
00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:44.039
It's bigger on the inside than the outside, isn't it?

202
00:17:44.099 --> 00:17:45.420
As if she's a bit dim.

203
00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:49.140
And of course, she absolutely isn't and makes it clear that she's not.

204
00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:50.700
And once she knows what's going on.

205
00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:53.160
She asks a whole heap of really sort of pertinent questions.

206
00:17:53.220 --> 00:18:05.279
There's that introduction, which I think really works well, but visually, but makes her look like an idiot, which is she's at the door talking about how they're trapped or the, or whatever they're in the room.

207
00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:10.859
And the camera pulls back and we see that she's actually in a small part of a very large black space.

208
00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:13.259
And then the lights come on.

209
00:18:13.319 --> 00:18:19.319
That's really great, but it does, I think, it does make her look a bit stupid.

210
00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:29.220
I guess that's what I was saying earlier about the fact that sometimes the beats in this kind of they're not the wrong beats, but they're a bit uncomfortable.

211
00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:33.180
Like Dr. Watt is an uncomfortable thing because you're used to Doctor Who, rather than Dr. Watt.

212
00:18:33.240 --> 00:18:35.279
And that's another example of that.

213
00:18:35.339 --> 00:18:38.099
So there's points in this where it's sort of like, what is that dynamic?

214
00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:42.420
What is that actual relationship, the energy, the energy is different.

215
00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:46.319
She brings a different energy, and we're not used to it, and it's not a wrong energy.

216
00:18:46.380 --> 00:18:48.000
It's just playing different notes.

217
00:18:48.059 --> 00:19:02.220
And when you get into it, and as it builds in the next few episodes up to knock, knock, where I really think it's like working so well by then, it's absolutely brilliant, and you can see what a wonderful companion she is for this doctor. and what a great dynamic they have.

218
00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:27.720
You can see that the, the, her puncturing his pomposity thing most clearly in that 1st scene in the TARDIS, because you've got Murray there, bizarrely using River Songs theme for some reason, we're in the TARDIS, we've got the River Song theme, and the doctor's making this sort of big pompous statement, and then the music goes away for when Bill says it's like a kitchen, and the same thing happens.

219
00:19:27.779 --> 00:19:31.259
He does this, you know, this can take you anywhere in time and space, blah, blah, blah.

220
00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:32.099
Murray is going crazy.

221
00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:34.200
And then she says, can I use the toilet?

222
00:19:34.259 --> 00:19:40.440
And like that's a little bit of a kind of low hanging fruit that's a little bit easy, that line.

223
00:19:40.500 --> 00:19:49.319
And I did spend the time on the Movellan spaceship kind of worried for her because she didn't seem to actually get the chance to go to the toilet at that point.

224
00:19:49.740 --> 00:19:52.319
Maybe she did and they just didn't mention it.

225
00:19:52.380 --> 00:19:53.759
Maybe she went in Australia.

226
00:19:53.819 --> 00:19:56.339
Maybe that's friend from the future part two.

227
00:19:56.460 --> 00:20:05.759
No, I think if you're going to make companion goofy, they've got to be funny and Moffat weirdly misses a couple of opportunities here.

228
00:20:05.819 --> 00:20:07.619
The kitchen remark is just weird.

229
00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:09.839
The TARDIS doesn't look like the kitchen.

230
00:20:09.900 --> 00:20:11.400
So why does she say it looks like a kitchen?

231
00:20:11.460 --> 00:20:13.200
It needed a better punchline to that.

232
00:20:13.259 --> 00:20:14.099
Yeah, yeah.

233
00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:25.619
There is one piece of dialogue, which I think is absolutely superb, and it is in the bathroom at the thing in Sydney, which, and I don't want to compromise Simon's Opsec, but it's really close to where he lives, isn't it?

234
00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:28.019
When they come to Sydney, they land on Simon's doorstep.

235
00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:31.559
But there is no cafe there.

236
00:20:31.619 --> 00:20:32.279
No, I know.

237
00:20:32.339 --> 00:20:32.759
I know.

238
00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:38.640
Like, I'm sorry, that's one of the things that irritates me about mini TV shows when they put in things that aren't there.

239
00:20:38.700 --> 00:20:40.500
They're just housing, Stephen.

240
00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:43.380
Geography is always wrong in TV shows.

241
00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:43.980
It's all fun.

242
00:20:44.039 --> 00:20:48.480
But she says to the doctor, can I ask you a personal question?

243
00:20:48.539 --> 00:20:50.099
And he says no.

244
00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:52.440
And then she says, can I anyway?

245
00:20:52.500 --> 00:20:54.240
And he says, yes.

246
00:20:54.299 --> 00:20:59.579
Which I think is surprisingly funny for something so simple.

247
00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:01.740
Yeah, like I think she is smart.

248
00:21:01.799 --> 00:21:07.440
She does come off as smart and she kind of knows what she's doing, but it does risk making her look stupid, some of that.

249
00:21:07.500 --> 00:21:08.099
Yeah.

250
00:21:11.940 --> 00:21:17.519
But the time we get to the next episode, the 1st time for the next episode, with them in smile.

251
00:21:17.579 --> 00:21:20.579
Yeah, there's just an obvious chemistry there that's working so well.

252
00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:28.740
I love the fact that she gets to work with a Dalek contract, really, um, obliged to have a Dalek in the season and we get the Mavellins.

253
00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:31.079
Like, I just think that's so funny.

254
00:21:31.079 --> 00:21:33.359
Stunningly true to June Hudson's original design.

255
00:21:33.420 --> 00:21:34.259
Yeah.

256
00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:39.299
So what's really good about this is we're around about halfway through before it turns into a Doctor Who episode.

257
00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:42.960
So it is an episode about Bill at University.

258
00:21:43.019 --> 00:21:45.119
Oh, can I just say St.

259
00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:53.759
Luke's University and Luke, who writes more of the New Testament than anyone else, anyone else by words?

260
00:21:53.819 --> 00:22:01.680
He writes 2 books, but they're quite long, he is famously a doctor, a physician, and so it's clearly named for that reason.

261
00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:04.440
So it's a story about her at St.

262
00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:12.539
Luke's University and her meeting Heather and that sort of relationship and stuff and only turns into a Doctor Who episode around about halfway through.

263
00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:29.099
Maybe the moment it turns into a Doctor Who episode is that brilliant moment where she's at the window talking about what she's seen and she looks down and there's Capaldi running outside the window and she turns around and the chair is still spinning and we get the doctor's music and stuff and then it turns into a Doctor Who episode.

264
00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:29.880
So it takes a while.

265
00:22:29.940 --> 00:22:32.220
That's where you get the fabulous line.

266
00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:35.339
Why do you run like that, like a penguin with itself on fire?

267
00:22:35.460 --> 00:22:41.400
Well, Armando Unucci said, you can't put anything funnier on television than Peter Capaldi running.

268
00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:43.380
And I think that's definitely true.

269
00:22:43.500 --> 00:22:45.660
Pearl Mackey's also quite funny when she runs.

270
00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:46.259
She all armed.

271
00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:47.460
She is, isn't she?

272
00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:51.240
Particularly at the end where she sort of arrives at the puddle.

273
00:22:51.299 --> 00:22:52.140
Do you know what I mean?

274
00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:55.799
And the doctor's been there and she's sort of kind of tired.

275
00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:58.200
She does run it in a funny way too, doesn't she?

276
00:22:58.259 --> 00:23:02.940
I like this episode becomes Doctor Who when they realise they've got to escape in the TARDIS.

277
00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:04.500
There is nothing more Doctor Who than that.

278
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:05.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

279
00:23:05.940 --> 00:23:06.720
Yeah, yeah.

280
00:23:06.779 --> 00:23:09.839
But it's doing a lot of work, like, you know, up to that point too.

281
00:23:09.900 --> 00:23:15.599
With, you know, having the doctor at the university, having the vault introduced and them checking on that.

282
00:23:15.660 --> 00:23:21.420
So there's that sort of mystery going on with the doctor and Nardol, and then she's following him and all that sort of stuff.

283
00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:24.059
It also introduces Moira.

284
00:23:24.119 --> 00:23:27.000
Like it gives us a little bit of background to Bill.

285
00:23:27.059 --> 00:23:30.480
Like we know that her mother's died and so she's being looked after by Moira.

286
00:23:30.539 --> 00:23:37.500
Moira is played by Jennifer Hennessy, who we last saw in Gridlock as Valerie.

287
00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:39.420
I knew I'd seen her somewhere else before.

288
00:23:39.480 --> 00:23:40.140
Yeah, yeah.

289
00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:41.279
Your cat mother.

290
00:23:41.339 --> 00:23:43.500
She is really horrible.

291
00:23:43.559 --> 00:23:49.500
And there's a there's a real attempt... casually horrible. just sort of brittle and not very nice to be around.

292
00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:55.619
Again, there's a brilliant line that where she gives Bill money for Christmas.

293
00:23:55.619 --> 00:24:11.160
And then she's looking in the mirror, the clothing that Bill's bought her, and she says, I hope you haven't spent too much money on this, and Bill says, like, looks at the money she's bought and says, no, I think this will cover it. which I think is so brutal.

294
00:24:11.220 --> 00:24:16.920
But the one where she goes to the bar and, you know, like, oh, I just need some me time and stuff.

295
00:24:16.980 --> 00:24:20.220
And so she's a little bit, she's kind of horrible and selfish.

296
00:24:20.279 --> 00:24:24.299
She's like Jackie, but with no charm or charisma at all.

297
00:24:24.359 --> 00:24:25.680
Does she go on?

298
00:24:25.740 --> 00:24:27.240
Is she in it much for the rest of the season?

299
00:24:27.299 --> 00:24:29.160
seen one more episode, is she?

300
00:24:29.220 --> 00:24:30.119
Is she an extremist?

301
00:24:30.180 --> 00:24:31.559
She's in the Pyramids trilogy.

302
00:24:31.619 --> 00:24:32.099
Right, okay.

303
00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:33.119
She one of the monks, yeah.

304
00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:36.299
I thought she was going to be in more, really.

305
00:24:36.359 --> 00:24:39.240
But then again, Stephen's not really interested in exploring.

306
00:24:39.299 --> 00:24:39.779
No.

307
00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:43.200
Yeah, you know, she never finds out that her foster daughter is dead.

308
00:24:43.259 --> 00:24:44.279
Yeah, yeah.

309
00:24:44.339 --> 00:24:48.180
Yeah, it's just there to reflect an aspect of Bill's slush. not meant to be a character in her own right.

310
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:49.140
No, that's fair enough.

311
00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:50.339
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

312
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:52.980
The other character we have is Heather.

313
00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:56.819
She is astonishingly beautiful.

314
00:24:56.880 --> 00:24:57.839
I think.

315
00:24:57.900 --> 00:25:01.380
And her smile is really something.

316
00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:03.059
There's that smile.

317
00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:03.960
Yeah, yeah.

318
00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:09.599
So there's that scene, the last time that they meet before she gets captured by the puddle.

319
00:25:09.660 --> 00:25:13.019
Um, and it's...

320
00:25:13.079 --> 00:25:15.420
And it's summer, isn't it?

321
00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:19.079
And we see that shot later where she just turns to Bill and smiles.

322
00:25:19.079 --> 00:25:26.700
And I didn't realise I watched this twice in preparation for this recording and once this morning.

323
00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:33.240
I only really realised this morning that we hear this kind of whooshing sound of her being sucked into the puddle.

324
00:25:33.299 --> 00:25:36.000
So when Bill kind of rounds the corner.

325
00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:36.720
She no longer there.

326
00:25:36.779 --> 00:25:38.579
But it's that last smile.

327
00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:49.140
And it worried me a little bit as I was watching it because there's that scene, the 1st scene just before Bill runs upstairs into the doctor's study.

328
00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:54.599
It's outside its night and they're there facing one another and she's repeating.

329
00:25:54.660 --> 00:25:55.559
Yeah, yeah.

330
00:25:55.619 --> 00:25:57.539
And Bill says you're dead.

331
00:25:57.599 --> 00:26:05.039
So I'm there wondering, well, spoiler alert, how does she come in in the final episode and kind of rescue her?

332
00:26:05.099 --> 00:26:07.740
How is that in any way a satisfying ending?

333
00:26:07.799 --> 00:26:12.059
But that smile happens enough for zombie Heather.

334
00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:14.460
We see her smile a couple of times.

335
00:26:14.519 --> 00:26:25.980
And even when they say goodbye to one another, the actress just lets there be a little bit of actual heather, you know, kind of play on her face that you believe that it's going to be okay.

336
00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:49.920
Well, it's because it's believable that she's regaining her humanity, as in her humanity is resurfacing slowly throughout that episode, and you see glints of it when she wants to take her away, and then they say goodbye, that you believe that she's spent all the intervening, potentially aeons because when is that season finale set?

337
00:26:49.980 --> 00:26:50.339
Yeah.

338
00:26:50.339 --> 00:26:53.039
Um, becoming Heather again?

339
00:26:53.099 --> 00:26:53.579
Heather again.

340
00:26:53.640 --> 00:26:54.119
Yeah, yeah.

341
00:26:54.180 --> 00:26:54.599
Yeah.

342
00:26:54.660 --> 00:26:57.000
I think like there's that moment where she appears.

343
00:26:57.000 --> 00:26:58.019
There's a really beautiful shot.

344
00:26:58.079 --> 00:27:04.500
You know, on the planet in the future, 23000000 years in the future where we're on the planet with the weird wavy kind of...

345
00:27:04.500 --> 00:27:08.819
They've gone to that quarry with the big sort of headstone up the top in the background.

346
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:09.900
Yeah, yeah.

347
00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:18.359
And there's a shot from the side where she's emerging from the puddle and you can see the reflection of her face.

348
00:27:18.420 --> 00:27:20.460
You know, it's a really kind of beautiful shot.

349
00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:22.799
But when she sees Bill.

350
00:27:22.859 --> 00:27:27.480
She smiles in recognition and she's pleased to see her.

351
00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:31.980
And then, you know, she grabs her face and tries to pull her in the water and that's all horrible.

352
00:27:32.099 --> 00:27:37.019
But there's just enough of her there, I think.

353
00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:44.099
And I also think just the moment they 1st made in the bar is great, where they just sort of stop and stand in front of one another and they look at each other like I buy.

354
00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:48.779
It's quite nice because they've made eye contact, then Bill makes a move and Heather's already making a move.

355
00:27:48.839 --> 00:27:51.059
So they've obviously just tried to cross each other's parts.

356
00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:51.839
Yeah, it's lovely.

357
00:27:51.960 --> 00:27:52.380
Yeah.

358
00:27:52.559 --> 00:28:02.940
I guess this is one of the aspects of the episode for me, which is less satisfying with the puddle and it's home motivation, the fact that it's come to earth, and then it's choosing heather.

359
00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:06.059
And then it's not totally evil.

360
00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:14.099
Like Heather's initially like the pilot and appears to be evil, like with, you know, the jump scares with all the water in the bathroom and all the chasing and that sort of thing.

361
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:17.339
Like, it's like, what is its motivation, why her?

362
00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:23.880
Yes, I think it's great that we get all these smiles because then you can retrofit the story back.

363
00:28:23.940 --> 00:28:31.799
It's sort of like to me, has he gone and written the conclusion of the season knowing where that's going and going, well, then how do I get her out of being killed, spoiler alert?

364
00:28:31.859 --> 00:28:34.380
But now I need to fit it back into this story.

365
00:28:34.440 --> 00:28:40.920
So I guess I was just kind of going, does this make sense in my head and the clogs that are turning and that sort of thing.

366
00:28:40.980 --> 00:28:47.519
And I can see everything that you're saying, but at the same time, kind of think, well, why, except that we want Bill to live?

367
00:28:47.579 --> 00:28:55.740
Yeah, I mean, he had he had the idea of her being saved at the end whilst he was writing this story by Heather.

368
00:28:55.799 --> 00:28:57.240
Yeah, it's not retrofitted.

369
00:28:57.359 --> 00:29:01.079
It actually kind of inspires the ending of this episode.

370
00:29:01.140 --> 00:29:03.720
I guess I just want more of an explanation.

371
00:29:03.779 --> 00:29:13.619
Like, I always want more of an explanation, but then when I do get an explanation, am I satisfied, is it just too much technobabble, you know, so sometimes it's better, less is more.

372
00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:15.779
Maybe you just don't like characters who are a bit wet.

373
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:19.200
So.

374
00:29:31.500 --> 00:29:36.420
So, twice the doctor talks about things rhyming.

375
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:46.559
So there's one time where Bill says you were supposed to give a lecture on quantum physics, but instead you talked about poetry and he says, well, they're the same thing they rhyme.

376
00:29:46.619 --> 00:29:54.660
And Nardol asks the doctor how he can possibly be teaching Bill everything and he says, well, because everything rhymes.

377
00:29:54.720 --> 00:30:05.220
And I wonder whether that's an allusion to the fact that a lot of the stuff that the sort of silly sci-fi plot covers has been covered by the show before.

378
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:18.000
So the use of water, pouring off people, and puddles and things obviously comes from waters of Mars, zombies, water zombies, which worked incredibly well in waters of water.

379
00:30:18.059 --> 00:30:18.839
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

380
00:30:18.900 --> 00:30:20.519
And I think it works really well. here.

381
00:30:20.579 --> 00:30:38.160
And then the other thing is, of course, the lodger, where you've got the Silencers TARDIS, is looking for someone who wants to leave so that it can pilot it away and it decides on Sophie, remember?

382
00:30:38.220 --> 00:30:42.420
So Sophie is going to be the pilot to take that TARDIS away.

383
00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:47.819
It's looking for a pilot and it keeps killing all of those people because they don't, you know, they don't work.

384
00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:53.099
In a way, it's sort of shorthand because it's stuff that we've seen before, it rhymes with something that we already know.

385
00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:59.279
And your reflection, you never see what you look like.

386
00:30:59.339 --> 00:31:00.660
Well, that's so Moffat.

387
00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:02.099
That's absolutely Moffat.

388
00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:03.180
And just think about it.

389
00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:11.160
You're standing next to someone looking in the mirror. someone you know You and someone else are standing next to each other looking in the mirror.

390
00:31:11.220 --> 00:31:12.900
That person always looks weird.

391
00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:14.339
Yeah?

392
00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:22.859
The person, your friend who's looking in the mirror with you kind of looks weird because although that's the version of their face that they're most familiar with.

393
00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:27.660
It's the version of their face that you nearly never see because it's flipped horizontally.

394
00:31:27.720 --> 00:31:32.339
And so playing with that, I think, is really brilliant.

395
00:31:32.339 --> 00:31:33.599
It's really moffety.

396
00:31:33.660 --> 00:31:51.119
And I also think the shot, the way that it shot as if the puddle is like a massive hollow under the, under the ground, that it's a window up into the sort of upper world and there's a big void underneath with Nicholas Briggs underneath going, pilot acquired, you know?

397
00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:56.099
I tell you what, those effects have come on since TNG skin of evil.

398
00:31:57.660 --> 00:32:01.259
Well, I think that I think that looks really good.

399
00:32:01.319 --> 00:32:06.420
And so the idea is that it's what a liquid spaceship that shape shifts.

400
00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:10.740
It's kind of like whatever we need to make this happen. fuel and now it's a bit old.

401
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:11.400
Yeah, yeah.

402
00:32:11.460 --> 00:32:15.539
Then why does it have the Dalek ship scorch marks?

403
00:32:15.660 --> 00:32:16.859
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

404
00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:18.240
Again, something we've borrowed.

405
00:32:18.359 --> 00:32:24.119
So before this episode, did Mothite just watch like Tear of the Autons, Remembrance of the Daleks, the Lodger?

406
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:25.259
I know what I'll do.

407
00:32:25.859 --> 00:32:31.380
Yeah, well, I mean, because it's the sort of thing that it's like Boomtown.

408
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:41.220
Remember how Boomtown is not at all a Doctor Who story maybe until the last sort of 10 minutes and it has the thinnest possible science fiction plot.

409
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:48.720
You know, it's like Annette Badland's going to blow up Cardiff and surf off into space, you know, or something.

410
00:32:48.839 --> 00:32:50.819
I've actually seen it.

411
00:32:51.180 --> 00:32:53.579
Oh, I've got a vision right there.

412
00:32:54.119 --> 00:33:04.380
And here, it is a very, very thin science fiction plot, but what it does is it gives us the chance to gradually introduce Bill to what the Tartars can do.

413
00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:10.259
And one of the funniest lines, I think, is where Bill goes, oh my god, is it a, have we travelled in time?

414
00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:13.079
And the doctor says, no, we're just in Australia.

415
00:33:13.140 --> 00:33:17.099
And so, you know, like it shows us what Doctor Who can do.

416
00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:18.480
We can travel in time and space.

417
00:33:18.539 --> 00:33:21.660
It introduces us to the Daleks, which I think is absolutely brilliant.

418
00:33:21.720 --> 00:33:23.640
Doesn't he say now we've travelled in time?

419
00:33:23.700 --> 00:33:24.720
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

420
00:33:24.779 --> 00:33:25.619
Now we've travelled.

421
00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:30.420
Well, in fact, well, they travel in time because the quarry is 23000000 years in the future.

422
00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:32.579
So yes, it travels in time as well.

423
00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:35.460
And we go and fight monsters as well.

424
00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:38.279
So it introduces the show to her.

425
00:33:38.339 --> 00:33:42.539
You know, in sort of 3 stages, I think, at the end.

426
00:33:42.599 --> 00:33:45.539
But that, but that again is playing with our expectations.

427
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:54.000
We're so used to certain beats like that automatically with a new companion, we're going to go through time and space to begin with, but initially we just changed location.

428
00:33:54.059 --> 00:33:55.500
Yeah, actually change time.

429
00:33:55.559 --> 00:34:00.720
So that's another thing where you kind of go, oh, that's a bit of a different energy, a bit different vibe.

430
00:34:00.779 --> 00:34:04.740
Well, in fact, normally a new companion's 1st story is set entirely on earth.

431
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:17.219
Yeah, what it's actually doing what we see, the traditional Russell T. Davis introduction to a season over a course of 3 or 4 episodes, you know, future past, back on Earth.

432
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:18.719
All in one goat.

433
00:34:18.780 --> 00:34:19.440
Yeah, yeah.

434
00:34:19.500 --> 00:34:20.579
In fact, we're going to the past.

435
00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:25.260
The Dalek Mobel and War, presumably, is taking place around 1980 or something.

436
00:34:26.219 --> 00:34:28.619
So we're going back into the past.

437
00:34:28.619 --> 00:34:34.920
Or maybe it's the John Peel theory that, you know, Genesis of the Daleks takes place in 1831 or something like that.

438
00:34:34.980 --> 00:34:37.619
Like, it's some...

439
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:40.019
There are some things that are so stupid.

440
00:34:40.260 --> 00:34:44.940
The only thing we were missing was a phone call back to that shrew of a foster mother.

441
00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:46.320
Yeah, yeah, she is terrible.

442
00:34:49.380 --> 00:34:54.599
I thought this might be an 8.5. to horses, listeners.

443
00:34:54.659 --> 00:34:57.420
I love listening to you talk yourself up.

444
00:34:57.480 --> 00:34:58.079
No, no, no.

445
00:34:58.139 --> 00:35:05.280
I think this is good, but you've just highlighted some real strength of this episode, not only in performance, but in terms of writing and what Stephen can actually do.

446
00:35:05.340 --> 00:35:08.639
And again, this got an audience appreciation of 83.

447
00:35:08.760 --> 00:35:16.380
And the better Capoldis often get like 8384 and it was seen by 6.68 million, the highest rate at episode of the season.

448
00:35:16.440 --> 00:35:19.800
But it's a really good episode to come in on.

449
00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:27.780
And there's so many strengths here with the team and the writing and the direction and to give a different vibe of the season.

450
00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:28.860
This is what we're going to be going with.

451
00:35:29.219 --> 00:35:33.420
There's some red herrings, like, you know, would we get the Movellins back?

452
00:35:33.480 --> 00:35:34.739
Would Susan be coming back?

453
00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:40.920
I found that really the shot of the focus on both River and Susan, I find quite interesting.

454
00:35:40.980 --> 00:35:43.860
Yeah, it's hard to know what they're doing, isn't it?

455
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:47.219
Reverend Susan have a moment in that episode.

456
00:35:47.579 --> 00:35:49.800
He looks at her.

457
00:35:49.860 --> 00:35:58.320
He looks at the Susan photo when Bill asks why he's interviewing her.

458
00:35:58.380 --> 00:36:06.599
And I think that he is interviewing her to be someone who goes off in the TARDIS with him.

459
00:36:06.659 --> 00:36:08.400
Absolutely.

460
00:36:08.460 --> 00:36:10.739
So what we learn, and there's a mystery, isn't it?

461
00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:25.019
Like, we're kind of very familiar with it now, but we don't know what's in the vault at the moment, and we know that he's pledged to look after the vault and that he's been here for 50, 70 years or something at this university looking after the vault.

462
00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:28.019
And we don't know what's there.

463
00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:34.679
And he's promised Nardol, and he's clearly tasked Nardol to kind of keep him honest because he knows what he's like.

464
00:36:34.739 --> 00:36:44.940
And so Nadol is a little bit older now, and he doesn't play it quite as goofy and fun as he did in the Christmas special.

465
00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:46.440
Does other people feel like that?

466
00:36:46.500 --> 00:36:52.019
They actually had a conversation about that, Matt, said to Stephen.

467
00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:54.119
I think we need to tone this down.

468
00:36:54.179 --> 00:37:01.920
We need to flesh him out because over the course of this season, if we play, if I play it that way, that, you're going to hate that character by the end of the season.

469
00:37:01.980 --> 00:37:20.699
So he is kind of telling the doctor, like he tells the doctor that he can't sort of go anyway, the doctor has to reassure him that things going to be okay, that the psychic paper will kind of inform them if someone breaches the vault, you know, the doctor has to establish, like we go down to the vault, don't we, to establish that, um, Heather's not after what's in the vault.

470
00:37:20.760 --> 00:37:31.559
So one of the weird things about Nadal then is that Nadal is, I think, the 2nd longest companion to be with the doctor by duration.

471
00:37:31.619 --> 00:37:38.099
He's been with him clearly for the entire time that the doctor's been at St.

472
00:37:38.099 --> 00:37:38.880
Luke's University.

473
00:37:38.940 --> 00:37:47.460
So at least 70 years, the Nardol that we saw in The Return of Dr. Mysterio is much younger and much sillier and much more fun.

474
00:37:47.579 --> 00:37:49.679
This one is creaking a bit, isn't it?

475
00:37:49.739 --> 00:37:53.820
Yeah, this one's creaking in, which I just think is so funny, that's it. dropping his knots on the floor.

476
00:37:53.940 --> 00:38:01.260
We don't see where he kicks it under the rug and nothing gets said again because we're where Bill's point of view.

477
00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:02.760
That's just for us.

478
00:38:02.820 --> 00:38:06.420
You know, how did he get to be a person rather than just ahead?

479
00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:08.039
Which is how he left?

480
00:38:08.099 --> 00:38:15.599
He's doing that same smile for Bill that Matt Lucas does in Little Britain in the sketch where the guy comes in and asks for impossible books in the bookstore.

481
00:38:15.659 --> 00:38:18.059
Yeah, kind of like just smiles at him, kind of...

482
00:38:18.119 --> 00:38:19.920
It's really funny, isn't it?

483
00:38:19.980 --> 00:38:28.199
Because she has this sort of look with the creaky noise of his arm and he just sort of looks sort of weirdly passionate.

484
00:38:28.260 --> 00:38:29.099
It sort of well played.

485
00:38:29.159 --> 00:38:30.659
So he's the 2nd longest companion.

486
00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:36.900
He's been with the doctor for at least 70 years, possibly Romana, travels with a doctor for that long, but we don't know.

487
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:39.659
And who's the longest serving companion?

488
00:38:39.780 --> 00:38:42.000
Is it his closest predecessor handles?

489
00:38:42.059 --> 00:38:43.079
Yes, it's handled.

490
00:38:43.139 --> 00:38:45.119
He's with 100s and 100s of years.

491
00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:51.239
My hand has just gone to my head, as you said this, because I never really thought about that.

492
00:38:51.300 --> 00:38:53.880
Thank God it wasn't that other squishy thing from last week.

493
00:38:54.780 --> 00:39:04.380
I would have thought his longest serving companion was the veil from...

494
00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:05.820
Does they count as a companion?

495
00:39:05.880 --> 00:39:09.179
There's a line in there, like about it being a companion.

496
00:39:09.239 --> 00:39:11.219
A podcast and companion of death.

497
00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:14.460
I think it was probably Dodo, or maybe that just felt the longest.

498
00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:18.480
But back to what you were saying about Nadol.

499
00:39:18.539 --> 00:39:29.340
Yes, he's got a bit more gravity here and you see that throughout play throughout the season and that character development is something that I think plays really well into the show and always does.

500
00:39:29.400 --> 00:39:30.480
And I think that's a really good thing.

501
00:39:30.539 --> 00:39:41.820
As James was saying, like, the fact that Matt Lucas could discuss this with Stephen and Stephen could take it on board and actually run with it really does work well because at the moment he's not really annoyed by Nadal.

502
00:39:41.880 --> 00:39:46.139
Like, you know, at the end of the season, like, you know, when your day couldn't get any worse or whatever he happens to say.

503
00:39:46.199 --> 00:39:59.219
It's just interesting seeing that dynamic and the way in which I always love it in a show where you have a comedic character who you just think does comedy, but then when the going gets tough, they get tough.

504
00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:01.320
It a bit like Jackie. like you think she's whatever.

505
00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:03.179
But when they're going, it's tough, she is there.

506
00:40:03.179 --> 00:40:05.039
And this is the same with my adult.

507
00:40:05.099 --> 00:40:09.420
That's the great thing about Nut, although he is a very competent character.

508
00:40:09.480 --> 00:40:17.219
He's weird and quirky, but he drives the plot. in a couple of places in the season.

509
00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:19.679
He was flying the Tartars last week, remember?

510
00:40:19.739 --> 00:40:24.179
and he went to 12th century, Constantinople and ruled wisely for a little while and stuff.

511
00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:34.380
Like, he's sort of competent, although there is that thing where, you know, he's given the Sonic screwdriver to destroy all the panels and I think Bill says something like, uh, you know, are we safe?

512
00:40:34.440 --> 00:40:38.820
And he says, well, I think that's down to Nardol, so probably not. you know?

513
00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:44.579
He does that Pat Troughton thing from the invasion where things blow up behind him and he runs down the corridor going, Oh, hoo.

514
00:40:44.639 --> 00:40:46.920
He really does, doesn't he?

515
00:40:47.039 --> 00:40:48.780
He even runs a bit like him.

516
00:40:48.840 --> 00:40:52.500
Like, the sort of, oh, my, my pants are on fire.

517
00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:54.420
So I think that's really good.

518
00:40:54.480 --> 00:41:03.599
And I think also something that's not done enough is the show is given a shape and a narrative by the Pertoy era.

519
00:41:03.659 --> 00:41:07.139
So something happens to the doctor that changes the premise of the show.

520
00:41:07.199 --> 00:41:15.840
And so for years he's working on earth with unit and then he's he sort of gradually goes back into space and sort of rejects unit.

521
00:41:15.900 --> 00:41:26.639
And so mostly the show is just the doctor travels in time and space except for those kind of 5 years or whatever in the middle here, Moffatt has done a similar thing.

522
00:41:26.699 --> 00:41:33.300
He said, now the doctor has been here for 70 years and he is now a teacher at a university.

523
00:41:33.300 --> 00:41:34.739
And we go back to that.

524
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:36.179
That's the premise of the show.

525
00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:37.500
That's the doctor's job.

526
00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:40.440
He doesn't travel in time and space. so much.

527
00:41:40.500 --> 00:41:41.519
He's based here.

528
00:41:41.579 --> 00:41:50.820
And there's a little bit of that in Russell's early stuff where, you know, he hangs around the power state with Jackie and and, you know, Rose's family and things.

529
00:41:51.420 --> 00:41:59.699
And Russell's doing it a little bit now in the most recent series where you've got unit and you've got, you know, some people that the doctor knows and stuff.

530
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:08.340
But here I think that giving the show a shape and changing its premise is something that should be done more often, I think.

531
00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:13.739
And it's interesting how similar it is, and the doctor has a home base.

532
00:42:13.800 --> 00:42:16.199
He has a goofy but competent new companion.

533
00:42:16.260 --> 00:42:23.159
He has sort of a brigadier figure to spa with and to keep him on track and he also has a master in close proximity.

534
00:42:23.219 --> 00:42:24.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

535
00:42:24.360 --> 00:42:24.900
Yeah.

536
00:42:24.960 --> 00:42:29.940
I think I would have liked to have seen more of that throughout this season.

537
00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:31.619
I know I'm jumping ahead.

538
00:42:31.679 --> 00:42:35.460
It sets it up here, but then how much of it do we actually get?

539
00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:37.800
And I think I would have liked more.

540
00:42:37.860 --> 00:42:42.539
And I think it comes back to how long we have companions for these days.

541
00:42:42.599 --> 00:42:51.360
I would have loved to have seen this introduction in this team in half of last season, get all the introductory stuff out of the way and then have them fully within this season.

542
00:42:51.420 --> 00:42:58.860
I think in knew who, often for me anyway, one season is not enough with a companion, but sometimes 2 seasons is too much.

543
00:42:58.920 --> 00:43:08.219
It's almost like you need 18 months, but there's never an easy way to separate that out or actually make that work in terms of the beats of a season and how all that works.

544
00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:18.239
I mean, if you look back at classic Doctor Who, many companions really are in the show for just over a year or span 2 series, even if they don't do the complete 2 series.

545
00:43:18.300 --> 00:43:30.179
And even the earlier companions, you know, if you look at Susan, Vicki, Steve, Ben Polly, Victoria, Zoe, all do about 40 episodes, or thereabouts, like just over a season, and that's a good amount.

546
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:36.900
And so here, I guess the one thing is that he introduces all this stuff, which is great, but it's sort of like I want a little bit more with this crew.

547
00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:39.840
I want another 3 or 4 episodes of them.

548
00:43:39.900 --> 00:43:43.079
But I think that's a good thing, though.

549
00:43:43.139 --> 00:43:44.039
Do you know what I mean?

550
00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:49.619
There's 2 times you can stop doing something, and that is before everyone's sick of it, and after everyone's sick.

551
00:43:49.679 --> 00:43:51.059
Welcome to Clara series 9.

552
00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:53.639
Yeah, yeah. flights are entirety, to be honest.

553
00:43:53.699 --> 00:43:56.760
But...

554
00:43:56.760 --> 00:44:04.260
But here I think, you know, the fact that you've got this new companion, you've given the show a whole new shape.

555
00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:09.659
It's still able to tell the sort of stories that it really does anyway.

556
00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:12.000
And it does leave us wanting more.

557
00:44:12.059 --> 00:44:20.340
You asked earlier, Todd, whether we knew that Bill was a one and done companion, and I'm pretty sure that we definitely did, because we do know at this point that Chibnil's taking over.

558
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:27.179
We know that Moffatt has agreed to do a year because Chibnall's not ready. been persuaded to stay.

559
00:44:27.239 --> 00:44:28.679
He's been persuaded to stay.

560
00:44:28.860 --> 00:44:34.800
I think it works really well because Moffatt doesn't have a whole heap of balls in the air.

561
00:44:34.860 --> 00:44:36.900
Everything's kind of been resolved.

562
00:44:37.019 --> 00:44:42.539
There's a little reference to Clara, which I think is really effective at the end of the episode.

563
00:44:43.019 --> 00:44:52.679
You know, which is when the doctor is persuaded not to do the memory wipe on Bill and we get Clara's music.

564
00:44:52.739 --> 00:44:56.579
Bill says, how would you feel if this happened to you?

565
00:44:56.579 --> 00:44:59.099
And just for a 2nd we get Clara's music.

566
00:44:59.159 --> 00:45:01.800
But that's the only kind of callback to anything that we've had earlier.

567
00:45:01.860 --> 00:45:06.960
That is also so nice because they've set up Bill as being a spaniel who likes sci-fi.

568
00:45:07.079 --> 00:45:09.420
And so she just knows that the mind wipe is coming.

569
00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:11.340
I know what a mind wipe looks like.

570
00:45:12.599 --> 00:45:16.500
I also love that great line earlier in the episode.

571
00:45:16.559 --> 00:45:18.960
I know you're not much of a sci-fi.

572
00:45:19.019 --> 00:45:19.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

573
00:45:20.039 --> 00:45:21.420
It's so good.

574
00:45:21.539 --> 00:45:23.639
Yeah, so I don't know.

575
00:45:23.699 --> 00:45:28.619
The new shape that the show gets at this point is something that I'm really, really in favour of.

576
00:45:28.679 --> 00:45:42.539
And I think by clearing the decks, by doing a new thing, by raining it in a bit, he knows that he doesn't have seasons to kind of follow up on staff, he doesn't want to set up too much for his successor.

577
00:45:42.599 --> 00:45:45.599
So it's a sort of constrained thing.

578
00:45:45.659 --> 00:45:49.260
Yeah, he just goes in with a mission to make a season, a good season of Doctor Who.

579
00:45:49.320 --> 00:45:51.900
Yeah, and I think he really mostly manages.

580
00:45:51.960 --> 00:45:56.639
I haven't gone as far ahead in my rewatching as you, Todd.

581
00:45:56.699 --> 00:46:01.260
I am up to I've got to watch smile after this, actually, after we record this.

582
00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:02.519
So I'm not ahead at all.

583
00:46:02.579 --> 00:46:13.139
And I do know that there are some episodes coming up that I'm not hugely enamoured with, but what I do like is this version of the show.

584
00:46:13.559 --> 00:46:18.360
I think it's really interesting that you say that because, like, I'm much Empress of Mars.

585
00:46:18.420 --> 00:46:18.960
I've watched that.

586
00:46:19.019 --> 00:46:24.360
And seeing the dynamic of this crew, as I was saying, I would really love them to have been in earlier.

587
00:46:24.420 --> 00:46:38.639
But reflecting on the journey that we've had so far with the Capaldi doctor, last year I was so surprised and how much of that season I liked and how strong I thought it was, we were just exhausted by the Clarodynamic in that last run of 4 or 5 episodes.

588
00:46:38.699 --> 00:46:48.360
But then seeing the Capaldi doctrine and his evolution over these seasons, how much I've actually enjoyed it to get to this point with Peter.

589
00:46:48.420 --> 00:46:51.179
And as you said earlier, he's just nailing it.

590
00:46:51.239 --> 00:46:53.519
I know this is your favourite version of his doctor.

591
00:46:53.579 --> 00:46:55.380
I really love last year.

592
00:46:55.440 --> 00:47:01.800
I really like the balance between the narkiness and the comedy, perhaps a bit more than I thought I would, right?

593
00:47:01.860 --> 00:47:06.179
But just seeing him go through the 3 stages of per twee, the 3 stages.

594
00:47:06.480 --> 00:47:09.780
No, no, I... 5 stages of grief.

595
00:47:10.079 --> 00:47:13.739
The 3 stages of perchway, there's 3 stages of Colin as well.

596
00:47:13.800 --> 00:47:28.500
Here is like the 3rd stage, and I cannot express how wonderful I think Peter Capaldi is in this role, and no matter what he's given the dynamics, what he brings to the show, just underpins everything so much.

597
00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:40.139
He is just so good and and just seeing him work out that chemistry with Pearl through this episode and the next few is beautiful to watch.

598
00:47:40.500 --> 00:47:43.619
I've bored people many, many times.

599
00:47:43.679 --> 00:47:44.820
You have, James, it's true.

600
00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:45.840
I know, yes.

601
00:47:46.079 --> 00:47:48.840
I'm trying not to do it now, Peter.

602
00:47:48.900 --> 00:47:49.440
Can you tell?

603
00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:53.760
I love series 10 of Doctor Who.

604
00:47:53.820 --> 00:47:57.059
It is my favourite series of the modern era.

605
00:47:57.179 --> 00:47:57.659
Wow.

606
00:47:57.719 --> 00:48:00.900
And I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's because of Capaldi.

607
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:02.159
Capaldi is my favourite doctor.

608
00:48:02.219 --> 00:48:02.880
Yep.

609
00:48:03.000 --> 00:48:11.579
I would have said modern doctor, but I think he's actually my favourite doctor because he's never short of brilliant, despite the stories around him often.

610
00:48:11.639 --> 00:48:26.219
Often the show he's in can be quite, quite messy or lopsided, but he always lifts every scene he's in, even when it's an overritten script or a plot that's not quite shelling.

611
00:48:26.280 --> 00:48:27.960
He is always brilliant in this role.

612
00:48:28.019 --> 00:48:29.579
Like, I hear you in this.

613
00:48:29.639 --> 00:48:40.559
Like, it's a Tom Baker thing where he will lift anything, any scene that he's in and I'm with you because Peter is my favourite doctor of the new series as well.

614
00:48:40.619 --> 00:48:45.179
But I don't, like, I'm 9 episodes into this season, but I don't think it's as strong as the previous two.

615
00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:55.260
Like, that's, like, it's very consistent, but there's nothing that I've loved like I've loved in the previous too, and nothing guests that I've loathed as I've loathed as well.

616
00:48:55.320 --> 00:49:01.559
But it's an interesting season because I think there is so much great character stuff and performances.

617
00:49:01.619 --> 00:49:09.960
But there's some stories where it's like, like, it's not quite at the heights that I've experienced over the last couple of years.

618
00:49:10.019 --> 00:49:13.860
It's really a juxtaposition which I'm sort of struggling with at this point.

619
00:49:13.920 --> 00:49:17.159
But this season also has a great ensemble cast.

620
00:49:17.219 --> 00:49:17.760
Yeah.

621
00:49:17.820 --> 00:49:19.440
Yeah, he's great in it.

622
00:49:19.500 --> 00:49:21.119
Matt is great in it.

623
00:49:21.179 --> 00:49:22.800
Fantastic.

624
00:49:22.860 --> 00:49:25.500
And then you bring in Missy.

625
00:49:25.500 --> 00:49:29.699
Yeah, on top of it, there's icing on the cake. it really it really does work.

626
00:49:29.760 --> 00:49:35.340
I think Paldi's so on point here and the entire episode is just sort of simple and elegant.

627
00:49:35.400 --> 00:49:41.340
And it's interesting that Motha was clearing the decks for Chipnall, because I think this kind of episode is what Chipnall was aiming for.

628
00:49:41.400 --> 00:49:45.960
Chipnell so often just wants to go for a simple and elegant story.

629
00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:48.420
And totally, he often gets it quite right.

630
00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:53.400
Pacing, he often gets wrong and it's almost never written as well as you want it to be.

631
00:49:53.460 --> 00:49:55.260
But this is the template.

632
00:49:55.320 --> 00:50:00.179
This is what Doctor Who should have been going forwards and it's a pity that we didn't get this from the next couple of years.

633
00:50:00.239 --> 00:50:18.719
Well, in fact, what's kind of odd is that both Moffatt in his final season and then Russell in his 1st new season are trying to clear the decks are trying to change what Doctor Who can do and are trying not to rely too heavily on stuff that it's done in the past, are trying to kind of open it up and do new things.

634
00:50:18.780 --> 00:50:21.960
And, you know, I guess that's a showrunner's role.

635
00:50:22.019 --> 00:50:38.280
But it's pretty wild seeing Moffatt do it in his 6 season as the showrunner after he's already the person who's written more Doctor Who than anyone else ever and he's still finding kind of new ways of doing it and new approaches to take.

636
00:50:38.400 --> 00:50:39.900
I think it's it's pretty great.

637
00:51:05.280 --> 00:51:08.940
Well, El Isra, that's all the time we've got for this week.

638
00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:14.880
We'll be back next week to learn how the young people are communicating these days in smile.

639
00:51:15.300 --> 00:51:33.659
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us on our website, flightthroughentirety.com, where you'll find our social media links, as well as links to all of our other podcasts, including our other Doctor Who podcasts, 500-year diary, and the 2nd great and bountiful Human Empire.

640
00:51:33.719 --> 00:51:39.659
Until next time, remember, you can always have both beauty and chips.

641
00:51:39.719 --> 00:51:41.039
We're doing it now.

642
00:51:41.099 --> 00:51:43.679
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

643
00:51:43.739 --> 00:51:45.059
See you soon.

644
00:51:45.119 --> 00:51:46.199
Ta-ta.

645
00:51:46.260 --> 00:51:46.739
Good nights.

646
00:51:50.579 --> 00:51:53.219
That was Flight for Entirety.

647
00:51:53.280 --> 00:51:56.159
Sorry, Todby, it'll be Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffiths and James Selwood.

648
00:51:56.219 --> 00:51:58.199
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

649
00:51:58.260 --> 00:52:04.440
This episode, Just a Person, was recorded on the 28th of July 2024 and released on the 15th of September.

650
00:52:05.039 --> 00:52:10.800
Time for your occasional reminder that flights or entirety doesn't end with its closing theme music.

651
00:52:10.860 --> 00:52:18.059
Stay tuned after this announcement to hear, among other things, Todd's final score for this episode, and we'll see you next week.

652
00:52:27.599 --> 00:52:29.340
Oh, right.

653
00:52:29.340 --> 00:52:29.880
End of it.

654
00:52:29.940 --> 00:52:33.420
So what we did mention was that Moffat again.

655
00:52:33.480 --> 00:52:34.139
Do you know what I mean?

656
00:52:34.199 --> 00:52:35.039
Like, as we talked about.

657
00:52:35.219 --> 00:52:41.340
We didn't talk that much about gender politics in, um, uh, Mysterio.

658
00:52:41.400 --> 00:52:50.219
We talked a little bit about it, but it's that kind of idea that, you know, he's the perfect man because he actually does some housework for a change or whatever.

659
00:52:50.280 --> 00:52:50.940
Do you know what I mean?

660
00:52:51.000 --> 00:52:52.559
Because he's a hot geek.

661
00:52:52.619 --> 00:52:53.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

662
00:52:53.519 --> 00:53:03.840
But like here, where the original idea was that it was a man, you know, that Bill, the whole reason that Bill is made a lesbian, and that's a big deal.

663
00:53:03.900 --> 00:53:08.219
She's, you know, Clara's bisexual, but she's sort of bisexual and quietly bisexual.

664
00:53:08.280 --> 00:53:12.360
Yeah, but it's also in a way that like men fight straight men find attractive.

665
00:53:12.420 --> 00:53:13.139
Do you know what I mean?

666
00:53:13.199 --> 00:53:17.039
It's the thought of, of, you know, pretty Jenna Coleman snogging a girl.

667
00:53:17.159 --> 00:53:19.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

668
00:53:19.559 --> 00:53:27.659
And whereas Bill is like, like, Bill, Bill's look is very, very contemporary, isn't it?

669
00:53:27.719 --> 00:53:29.159
Like the way that she looks.

670
00:53:29.219 --> 00:53:31.559
We see lots of hairstyles, these episodes.

671
00:53:31.679 --> 00:53:37.679
She got the big eyebrows and all of that sort of thing, the clothes she's wearing are really, really superfessional and really kind of now.

672
00:53:37.679 --> 00:53:39.000
She's really kind of modern.

673
00:53:39.059 --> 00:53:41.400
She's not like, she's not model.

674
00:53:41.460 --> 00:53:42.900
She's not like Jenna.

675
00:53:42.960 --> 00:53:43.739
Do you know what I mean?

676
00:53:43.739 --> 00:53:49.079
Or Karen, who are these sort of sort of, you know, models and stuff like that.

677
00:53:49.139 --> 00:53:53.340
She's a beautiful woman, but not in the same way as those two.

678
00:53:53.400 --> 00:53:55.139
It's a warm beauty, right?

679
00:53:55.199 --> 00:53:56.039
Yeah, yeah.

680
00:53:56.039 --> 00:53:57.239
And she's queer.

681
00:53:57.300 --> 00:53:58.260
Do you know what I mean?

682
00:53:58.320 --> 00:54:01.380
Like the character's queer, but she's only queer by accident.

683
00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:11.760
She's only queer because Moffatt couldn't get the pilot to work if the guy was a man because the man pursuing her, like stalking her through time and space.

684
00:54:12.179 --> 00:54:32.159
My favourite, my favourite anecdote, my favourite thing about this entire season of Doctor Who, is that is outside of it, which is that playing Bill and playing a strong, independent, queer character, made Pearl, realised she was queer.

685
00:54:32.280 --> 00:54:32.880
Yeah, yeah.

686
00:54:32.940 --> 00:54:42.360
Just in the last few months, there were photos from Pearl Mackey's wedding and she marries these sort of terribly beautiful women, the 2 of them just look unbelievably glamorous and adorable at the wedding.

687
00:54:42.420 --> 00:54:48.719
And so you've got, and you've got Matt Lucas, who's gay, you know, like, have we had that before?

688
00:54:48.840 --> 00:54:50.519
Do you know what I mean?

689
00:54:50.579 --> 00:54:55.260
Have we had out gay people in the regular cast in Doctor Who?

690
00:54:55.320 --> 00:54:56.760
Mikey Yates?

691
00:54:56.820 --> 00:54:58.019
Yeah, that's about it.

692
00:54:58.079 --> 00:54:59.460
Was he out at that time?

693
00:54:59.519 --> 00:55:00.900
Well, probably.

694
00:55:00.900 --> 00:55:02.099
Yeah, yeah.

695
00:55:02.099 --> 00:55:03.239
John Barriman, I guess.

696
00:55:03.300 --> 00:55:05.340
I know what you're saying here.

697
00:55:05.400 --> 00:55:07.619
Like you know, this is the 1st representation.

698
00:55:07.679 --> 00:55:08.400
Yeah.

699
00:55:08.460 --> 00:55:12.599
The full representation that we're not shying away from or trying to get, you know, around.

700
00:55:12.719 --> 00:55:18.840
And even if it comes to by accident, as often with Steven Moffin's things, he then fully embraces it and moves forward with it.

701
00:55:18.900 --> 00:55:26.099
That opening scene where she tells the story about fatting, the woman, like the woman who is, and like, I'm there going, do we do this?

702
00:55:26.099 --> 00:55:30.059
Because you know you Russell's got his problem with fat people because he himself is a large man.

703
00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:31.260
Do you know what I mean?

704
00:55:31.320 --> 00:55:33.420
And he's gay and there's all of that sort of body stuff.

705
00:55:33.480 --> 00:55:35.940
And so you've got her talking about fatting this woman.

706
00:55:36.059 --> 00:55:40.860
And but the way that she ends, like I was kind of worried about that.

707
00:55:40.920 --> 00:55:44.460
And it's clearly there to establish that she's queer straight away.

708
00:55:44.519 --> 00:55:46.860
That's how we know and it's in the 1st scene.

709
00:55:46.920 --> 00:55:55.260
And even we kind of admit that it's there for that reason because the doctor says, what's that got to do with why you come to my lectures and she says, I don't really know.

710
00:55:55.320 --> 00:55:57.059
I just hope something would defend.

711
00:55:57.119 --> 00:56:07.559
Like, so she's just telling that story for no reason except because we need to know she's queer for the Heather romance to work, but also because that's the character.

712
00:56:07.800 --> 00:56:11.699
But the thing about the fat thing is where she says beauty or chips.

713
00:56:11.760 --> 00:56:13.380
I like chips.

714
00:56:13.440 --> 00:56:14.699
She likes chips.

715
00:56:14.760 --> 00:56:15.960
So you know, that's good.

716
00:56:16.019 --> 00:56:19.679
And then when we see her later, she kind of beautiful.

717
00:56:19.800 --> 00:56:22.980
She's a, you know, she's a...

718
00:56:23.039 --> 00:56:27.119
English woman, you know, with pale skin, but she's large.

719
00:56:27.179 --> 00:56:35.219
And the 2 of them wink at one another and smile and we kind of go, yeah, like whatever, she's fat, but she enjoys chips and so do I, and we're totally into that.

720
00:56:35.280 --> 00:56:37.260
So like I kind of like that.

721
00:56:37.380 --> 00:56:44.099
Weird phrasing in that scene, though, where she says, you looked at her and it was immediate perversion.

722
00:56:44.159 --> 00:56:45.300
Perversion.

723
00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:48.659
And she's talking in the 3rd person about herself.

724
00:56:48.719 --> 00:56:50.519
But I think it's perving.

725
00:56:50.579 --> 00:56:58.739
I think she's using perversion as a comedy novelisation, but it also it almost reads as if you looked at her as in the doctor looked at her.

726
00:56:58.800 --> 00:57:01.800
The 1st time I watched it, kind of came in the car.

727
00:57:01.800 --> 00:57:03.840
Is she accusing him?

728
00:57:03.840 --> 00:57:04.559
No, no, no.

729
00:57:04.619 --> 00:57:09.300
And then the next couple of lines say, like, elaborate on that.

730
00:57:09.360 --> 00:57:10.980
But it just, it's weirdly phrased.

731
00:57:11.039 --> 00:57:13.079
I mean, I really like that.

732
00:57:13.079 --> 00:57:17.280
And using the word fatted, I fatted her as well is pretty funny.

733
00:57:17.340 --> 00:57:19.019
Like, that's a funny scene.

734
00:57:19.079 --> 00:57:20.940
That's a properly funny scene.

735
00:57:21.000 --> 00:57:23.280
God, just those words, I pass it on.

736
00:57:23.340 --> 00:57:26.099
Every time it comes on, I kind of go, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

737
00:57:26.159 --> 00:57:29.099
I'm sure that there, like, I'm a fat person and I wasn't offended.

738
00:57:29.159 --> 00:57:29.820
That doesn't matter.

739
00:57:29.880 --> 00:57:32.039
You feel free to be offended by that scene, if you like.

740
00:57:32.099 --> 00:57:34.860
But I think there's a warmth to it.

741
00:57:35.460 --> 00:57:44.699
And that warmth is absolutely solved by the scene where she comes up later and gets some chips from Bill and the 2 of the week at one another and smile.

742
00:57:44.760 --> 00:57:45.599
I think it's wonderful.

743
00:57:45.659 --> 00:57:48.000
Well she doesn't make it into a negative thing.

744
00:57:48.059 --> 00:57:48.960
No, no, no.

745
00:57:49.019 --> 00:57:49.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

746
00:57:49.860 --> 00:57:50.880
Beauty or chips.

747
00:57:50.940 --> 00:57:52.019
I gave her lots of chips.

748
00:57:52.019 --> 00:57:54.360
I gave her a couple, but she's not judging.

749
00:57:54.420 --> 00:57:55.500
Yeah, yeah, yes.

750
00:57:55.559 --> 00:58:07.679
It is such a shame that Bill is one and done because friend of the podcast and good friend of mine, Matt Jones, said that if he'd been showrunner, which, let's face it, is not beyond the realm of possibility.

751
00:58:07.800 --> 00:58:26.880
If he'd come in after Moffa, the one thing he would have said was, ooh, let's keep Bill, because the possibility of Bill being a lesbian and falling in love with the 1st female doctor was this character who she'd known and respected and suddenly was someone who she could fall in love with would have been such an interesting arc for that 1st season.

752
00:58:27.119 --> 00:58:28.500
Wow.

753
00:58:28.559 --> 00:58:30.480
We going to be cancelled by the year teen people.

754
00:58:34.860 --> 00:58:36.659
Don't worry about that.

755
00:58:36.659 --> 00:58:45.780
I think it's great that Stephen can embrace as a straight man.

756
00:58:45.840 --> 00:58:47.880
And he's made missteps in the past.

757
00:58:47.940 --> 00:58:48.719
Of course.

758
00:58:48.840 --> 00:58:49.260
Yeah, yeah.

759
00:58:49.320 --> 00:58:50.400
And he learns from that.

760
00:58:50.579 --> 00:58:53.159
And I think that's a brilliant thing.

761
00:58:53.219 --> 00:58:56.099
So have you seen, have you seen Douglas is cancelled?

762
00:58:56.159 --> 00:58:57.179
No not yet.

763
00:58:57.239 --> 00:58:58.079
It's worth seeing.

764
00:58:58.139 --> 00:58:59.159
I think it's really worth seeing.

765
00:58:59.280 --> 00:59:02.460
And it is another one where you kind of think, oh, what's he doing?

766
00:59:02.519 --> 00:59:05.579
I'm not quite sure I'm worried by this. worried by where it's going.

767
00:59:05.639 --> 00:59:06.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

768
00:59:06.480 --> 00:59:09.420
I'm still only halfway through because I was like, it was so compelling.

769
00:59:09.480 --> 00:59:09.960
I had to stop.

770
00:59:10.019 --> 00:59:11.159
Yeah, you want to save it.

771
00:59:11.219 --> 00:59:13.260
I watched it. binged it all in one day.

772
00:59:13.320 --> 00:59:21.000
It is kind of set up as a, oh, like, and promoted by ITV as being a, sorry, by sky.

773
00:59:21.059 --> 00:59:23.159
Not that this is going the episode, is it?

774
00:59:24.179 --> 00:59:28.139
As being a cancel culture TV show, but it's not.

775
00:59:28.199 --> 00:59:29.579
It's much more.

776
00:59:29.639 --> 00:59:32.400
It tells you why we have to have cancel culture, essentially.

777
00:59:32.460 --> 00:59:34.019
It is, I think it's really good.

778
00:59:34.079 --> 00:59:37.380
And it is, again, Moffatt learning. do you know what I mean?

779
00:59:37.440 --> 00:59:56.699
Like, like a straight man, already aware that he's a problem right back from joking apart, and learning and developing and stuff, and just having, like, just introducing our 1st queer, regular, explicitly queer regular, uh, you know, apart from Jack, who's just in a bunch of episodes.

780
00:59:56.760 --> 01:00:00.719
I think he's pretty great and he's a milestone, I think.

781
01:00:01.139 --> 01:00:05.340
And another reason why, you know, this episode might get an 8.5.

782
01:00:05.519 --> 01:00:08.460
Who knows what I'm going to say next?

783
01:00:08.519 --> 01:00:11.099
I'm totally giving it like a really high mark.

784
01:00:11.159 --> 01:00:13.079
I think it's an absolutely top tier episode.

785
01:00:13.139 --> 01:00:14.760
It really is a great start to the season.

786
01:00:14.820 --> 01:00:21.179
And actually, when they did that recent Doctor Who magazine poll of all of the stories, it came quite highly.

787
01:00:21.179 --> 01:00:22.380
Oh, good.

788
01:00:22.440 --> 01:00:22.980
So no one knew.

789
01:00:23.039 --> 01:00:31.199
No one knew what fandom thought of Peter Quality 0 in context and suddenly they realised they liked it a lot.

790
01:00:31.260 --> 01:00:39.300
I love how Moffat originally was going to call this a star in her eye and then went, oh, I'm repeaching the show. going to lean into calling it the pilot.

791
01:00:39.360 --> 01:00:41.880
Well, actually, it was Mark Gatis going, are you really going to call it that?

792
01:00:41.940 --> 01:00:43.019
him going, oh, I don't know.

793
01:00:43.199 --> 01:00:45.059
Stars in their eyes.

794
01:00:45.119 --> 01:00:45.719
Yeah, exactly.