WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 14:17:56

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast made of pure soaring optimism.

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And of course, nerds.

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I'm Nathan.

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James.

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I'm BJ with an AY.

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And I'm BJ without AY because some little microscopic robots have

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turned it into 2 radioactive cinders floating about in Spain.

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Well, there's platform one, new New York, Starship UK, the Rings

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of Atkinson, the Planet Desolation, and perhaps even a spaceship

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orbiting Pacifico del Rio, all perfect places for a 1st date.

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But this time, the dates on an unnamed planet in the distant

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future where modern technology has risen up and killed everyone

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which is just the sort of thing that always happens if you don't

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remember to smile.

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So this is one that I hadn't watched for a while, and I don't

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think I had a very strong opinion of it.

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That's the same for you, I think, BJ, is that right?

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Yes, well, I went to go watch it yesterday, because it'd been so

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long since I'd seen it.

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And I realised I'd actually gotten halfway through a while back

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and hadn't gone back to it.

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So I found that was a little bit telling of the episode.

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But the reason why I thought this would be a good one to chat

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about is because it was this season that I started coming back to

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it a bit more and it reminded me more of the David Tennant and

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Christopher Eccleston kind of era.

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So, I mean, it is the 1st time Peter Capaldi's doctor has

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introduced a new companion to travel in the TARDIS.

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You know, he came with Clara and we already had a sort of

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problematic relationship with Clara.

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So he never just got to go and have fun.

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You know he never got to kind of show off.

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And so it's actually quite fun seeing him in that mode.

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And I think you're right.

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I think it is a lot like, you know, the tenant era.

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He gets to do that a couple of times and so does Smith.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I definitely enjoyed the banter between the doctor and Bill being

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kind of like a combination between Rose and Donna.

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Yeah.

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I just enjoyed her naïveness of it and just questioning and asking

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silly little questions and sort of giving him a little dig every

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now and then about it all, which is very kind of donner-ish in

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that sense.

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She really does a great job of kind of undermining him and

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puncturing him and asking questions that haven't occurred to any

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other companion.

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And we saw that last week and we saw it in that promotional video

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friend from the future, which we thought last week was fairly

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terrible.

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But it is the thing that Bill does, I think, more than anyone

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else.

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She's the one who realises that the seats are too far away from

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the console.

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She's the one who kind of threatens to steal a TARS off the doctor

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and so on.

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Yeah, so she's more the everyday person, again, trying to bring

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the people that were watching it back in the tenant era back into

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the fold of the casual viewer.

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Yeah, I think that's right.

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She's also arguably the 1st companion, since Martha, to not be or

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spoiler alert, end up as a complex space-time event.

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Well-ish.ish.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So this is a really oddly structured episode.

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And the reason is that we get our 1st actual other person around

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about 30 minutes in.

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And so we get what is, you know, slightly longer, I think, than

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the 1st episode of, say, arc in space, where it is just the 2

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regulars.

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We've got a brief cameo from Nandol, but he's a regular two.

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We get them just wandering around.

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How do we think that works?

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I really like it.

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You know, the characters that die before the opening title

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sequence are completely unconnected to our regulars, so they have

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no knowledge of them.

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They are just introduced fresh into this world, not knowing what's

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going on, and they have to solve the mystery, which is, it's sort

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of unfolds and they keep making assumptions based on the

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information they have and not quite getting it right.

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And then you can see the doctor working it out in his head and

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realising he has to get Bill the hell out of there because he, you

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know, like her life is in danger.

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Look, I really enjoyed this episode.

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I only had watched it twice on original broadcast.

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I watched it once and then I watched it about a week later, and I

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hadn't gone back to it since, but I thought, oh, you know, it was

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flawed, but, you know, it had some good ideas.

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When I went and rewatched it a few weeks ago. really, really

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enjoyed it.

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I thought, I mean, I liked in the Forest of the Night, flawed

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though it is.

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I do too.

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I think this is a better, a better script from him.

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And it does some really interesting things with technology and, and

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you know, like ideas.

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We've gone back to time and time again in the show, say, the

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evacuation of the earth because of the solar flares, but does it

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in a way which doesn't detract from those earlier stories and

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actually kind of expands on them and makes it part of a bigger, a

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bigger universe without really relying too much on, on that

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previous continuity.

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I really enjoy the story.

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Yeah, I've had take a drink, listener.

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I've had the Todd experience of this one.

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Um, which is I really didn't think much of it when I 1st watched

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it.

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I have the weird position where this is by far the season of

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Capaldi, I remember the most fondly, but if I look at my

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spreadsheet of scores, the average is actually the lowest score

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out of the 3 series.

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And I'm thinking because I haven't seen this season since original

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broadcast at all at all.

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So I'm thinking maybe some of my lower scores, such as for this

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knock knock, lie of the land and eaters of light may go up as I'm

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watching this.

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And certainly it went up this time.

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I loved the doctor and Bill. exploring by themselves.

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I remember at the time, I feel like a lot of people were very

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disappointed that Mina Anwar was in it so little at the beginning

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she's good thing, the one saying, just big smile.

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Mother's dead, you know, it's fine.

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And of course, we know her from the Sarah Jane adventures and

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previously before that, the thin blue line.

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There was a lot of her cutout, but watching it again now, it's

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like, no, you want that to be sure and punchy and shocking.

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And also, if they kept in everything, that pre-titles would have

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been about 7 or 8 minutes.

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It's actually a slightly odd pre-titles, isn't it?

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Because it's got an important role in the actual ongoing thing.

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We need to see Nardol and we need to see the doctor kind of

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escaping from Nardol.

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I mean, this is laying out the new premise for Beale, who has some

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idea of the premise because she's known the doctor for over a year

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at this point.

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And then we go to the planet, to the colony.

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And I actually tweeted Mina Anwar after this episode, just to say

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how great I thought she was, because she has to be kind of smiling

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but she has to be terrified and grief stricken all at the same

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time, and she's so good.

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Like, that's a really great scene.

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It's really very strange and kind of weird, which is kind of what

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we're going for.

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But I think she's wonderful and I think that's one of the best

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bits of it.

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Yeah, I agree.

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I think the 1st half of the episode's great.

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I love it.

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I love that we get to learn more about Bill and the doctor's

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relationship and how it's going to be moving forward right at the

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start and the intro to the show.

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I think it was a good strong start for sure.

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I think it's just once they get onto the ship.

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It sort of petered out a little bit for me and then when we get to

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the end, we'll talk about that.

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Yeah, yeah, I feel I feel sort of similar way, I think.

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I think a huge role is played by the incredible location work.

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Like the, just the extraordinary location work.

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And I think that if we'd been wandering around a small studio in

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BBC television centre one, It would have been nowhere near as

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interesting.

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This is television.

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It's got to be visual.

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So this is the city of arts and sciences in Valencia in Spain.

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It's in the middle of Valencia.

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It's in the middle of a city and you can see, see it on Google

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Earth and stuff surrounded by other buildings, but they've taken

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it out, put it in the middle of this barley field or cornfield

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from somewhere in England.

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Yes, yeah.

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Seamlessly, like just incredibly well.

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Like the way that they've constructed the location just looks

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amazing.

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The scene where the doctor and people go back to the TARDIS, and

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you've got the parts of the field that still have their tracks in

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it from them leaving the TARDIS, with the building out of focus in

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the background.

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Like it just looks stunningly great.

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And it's the sort of thing that Doctor Who has sort of done before

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a bit.

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I'm thinking the end of the gangers 2 parter has a modern building

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playing a space building.

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Can anyone think of anything else where this has been done?

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I don't think it's been done at this scale.

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No, usually, like, if it's being done.

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It's being done with a model in the background rather than a

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genuine location.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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They also go back to Uskmouth Power Station.

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Is that the spaceship?

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I thought that's what you were referring to.

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The paper mill.

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That's right.

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Yeah, I believe I believe the last time Doctor Who was here was

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possibly for either Sleep No More or the Under Lake, before the

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flood, two-part, I think it was sleep no more.

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And Jenna Coleman tells his story of Capaldi going wandering off

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when he's not needed for a shot and coming back completely soaked

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because he found a big red button that said, do not press, and he

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pressed it happened to be an emergency anti-chemical burn shower.

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So she was just plastered with water.

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Now, he got in real trouble, didn't he?

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He did get in real good costume and stuff.

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So he was, well, no, he was just cosplaying that scene at the

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beginning of New Earth.

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Could be that.

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Could definitely be that.

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But yeah, it's astonishingly beautiful.

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And as a dedicated nerd, I was checking the reflections in all of

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the windows to make sure that there weren't Spanish streets or a

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restaurant visible opposite or anything like that and they really

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nailed it.

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It just looks so incredibly good.

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Can we talk a little bit about the setting, because James said, and

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I agree with him, that there's some attempt, I think, to tie this

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into the beast below an arc in space and make it the same space

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catastrophe that causes people to leave Earth.

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But that does read very much like it's been added later to the

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script because we do talk in terms of it being the last group of

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human beings alive, and it looks like they left the earth because

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some catastrophic political problem occurred.

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It's actually one thing I wanted to ask you guys about because um

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the doctor does comment that um, he's come across the last of the

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human ships a few times in his journey.

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So I was wondering if there were episodes about that at some

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point.

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I don't know if you remember, but Matt Smith's 2nd episode is

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called The Beast Below, and it involves them coming across

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Starship UK, which is a big spaceship that contains sort of a lot

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of kitschy English memorabilia and stuff.

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Well, I mean, technically it's a bit of space rock on the back of

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a whale.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Yeah.

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And in both of in both of those instances.

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And I think it is Stephen Moffat doing this.

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Stephen Moffatt inserts references to Scottish independence.

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Yes.

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Dashing.

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Scotland wanted their own starship in The Beast Below and the

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doctor says here that there's loads of new Scotland's around the

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place and they're all declaring independence from any other planet

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they've landed on.

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You know, we do we do get Rose asking the questions that no one

249
00:13:37.500 --> 00:13:38.519
else has asked before.

250
00:13:38.580 --> 00:13:41.820
And obviously she comments on the doctor's accent.

251
00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:45.240
And so we get Bill doing the same thing here.

252
00:13:45.299 --> 00:13:47.700
And she says, why are you Scottish?

253
00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:50.820
And he says, I'm not Scottish, I'm cross, which is definitely

254
00:13:50.820 --> 00:13:52.200
Moffat, I think.

255
00:13:52.259 --> 00:13:55.019
I don't think Frank Cottrel Boyce could say that without being

256
00:13:55.019 --> 00:13:55.740
cancelled.

257
00:13:55.799 --> 00:13:59.039
So Moffat gets to insert that line in.

258
00:13:59.100 --> 00:14:02.460
So I think Moffatt does do that thing that kind of inserts it into

259
00:14:02.460 --> 00:14:05.639
the wider universe for want of a better word.

260
00:14:05.700 --> 00:14:09.360
But I don't think frank cultural voice. aware enough to do that.

261
00:14:09.419 --> 00:14:12.600
And I think he wants to tell the story of the last humans

262
00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:13.860
arriving.

263
00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:15.960
And so you get that wonderful moment.

264
00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:17.879
And again, it's sort of 27 minutes in.

265
00:14:17.940 --> 00:14:21.240
It's quite late where Bill comes across the dead body of the old

266
00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:24.059
lady of sort of patient 0 essentially.

267
00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:29.580
And the book, the big history book, which is so great, isn't it?

268
00:14:29.639 --> 00:14:31.919
And you open it up and there's a screen.

269
00:14:31.980 --> 00:14:32.700
The big history iPad.

270
00:14:32.759 --> 00:14:35.279
Yeah, I'm getting missed vibes from it.

271
00:14:35.700 --> 00:14:38.519
And that does tell a different story.

272
00:14:38.580 --> 00:14:42.539
It doesn't seem to be solar flares or some kind of exogenous space

273
00:14:42.539 --> 00:14:43.440
disaster.

274
00:14:43.500 --> 00:14:47.220
It just seems to be things have got very terrible on earth.

275
00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:50.700
And again, you know, we're told it's the 1st earth colony or

276
00:14:50.700 --> 00:14:54.000
something like that, but then we're told it's 1000s of years in

277
00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:54.779
the future.

278
00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:58.620
So it doesn't really fit in with anything that we know about the

279
00:14:58.620 --> 00:15:00.840
history of Earth, but I don't care.

280
00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:03.960
And I think Doctor Who should do that more often.

281
00:15:04.019 --> 00:15:08.700
Just contradict people. contradict, get in and contradict some

282
00:15:08.700 --> 00:15:10.919
TARDIS Wakia entries, I think.

283
00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:17.399
I mean, yeah, it definitely doesn't tie in with, say, the arc or

284
00:15:17.399 --> 00:15:19.440
Frontios, let's say.

285
00:15:19.500 --> 00:15:22.019
It's not that human evacuation.

286
00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:27.179
But I think it is much closer to the beast below the arc in space

287
00:15:27.179 --> 00:15:28.320
in particular.

288
00:15:28.379 --> 00:15:31.620
If we're, say, 1000s of years in the future, say, around the year

289
00:15:31.620 --> 00:15:35.820
6000, I think in the arcade space, Earth is evacuated sometime

290
00:15:35.820 --> 00:15:37.679
after the 30th century.

291
00:15:37.740 --> 00:15:40.139
So that kind of fits there.

292
00:15:40.200 --> 00:15:42.179
But again, it doesn't matter.

293
00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:45.179
I think there's enough clues for people who read Lance Parkin's

294
00:15:45.179 --> 00:15:50.399
history of the universe every one or 2 years, which is me, to fit

295
00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:52.799
it in, but it doesn't rely on that.

296
00:15:52.860 --> 00:15:56.399
You know, we're all familiar with the concept of colonisation and

297
00:15:56.399 --> 00:15:58.679
we're familiar with the concept that the earth may become an

298
00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:01.860
inhabitable, you know, and Frank Cottero Boyce has touched on that

299
00:16:01.860 --> 00:16:04.019
before in the forest of the night.

300
00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:04.860
Yeah.

301
00:16:04.860 --> 00:16:07.980
And I think this one is rather more successful.

302
00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:12.299
I have my problems with that story, but I feel like this historic

303
00:16:12.299 --> 00:16:14.759
cultural voice going, okay, no, I'm going to do proper space opera

304
00:16:14.759 --> 00:16:16.200
but talking about some of the same themes.

305
00:16:16.500 --> 00:16:20.100
Well, isn't that the whole point, like with Doctor Who, the past

306
00:16:20.100 --> 00:16:23.519
and present never really exists in a same status.

307
00:16:23.580 --> 00:16:25.200
It's always changing, you know?

308
00:16:25.259 --> 00:16:30.960
Um, so it's good that they're exploring different ways of telling

309
00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:34.620
the same stories that are similar because that's going to happen.

310
00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:36.960
If it's always changing, there's always going to be similar

311
00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:39.779
patterns happening and but different stories to tell of that.

312
00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:41.460
Yeah, I think so too.

313
00:16:41.580 --> 00:16:44.100
I think that's exactly how it should be.

314
00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:48.179
And there is a sort of butterfly collecting instinct that fanboys

315
00:16:48.179 --> 00:16:48.779
have.

316
00:16:48.779 --> 00:16:54.720
And they want to pin down, you know, exactly what's happening and

317
00:16:54.720 --> 00:16:55.740
where and stuff.

318
00:16:55.799 --> 00:16:58.559
And I think Moffatt throws them a bone.

319
00:16:58.620 --> 00:17:02.279
I'm assuming that these are Moffatt's edits to Cultural Boys

320
00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:07.200
script, but that's not really what the story's about, what the

321
00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:07.920
episode's about.

322
00:17:07.980 --> 00:17:08.700
Yeah.

323
00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:13.079
And, you know, like, in a couple of years time, Chris Chibnall

324
00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:17.940
will ignore this dystopian future of humanity for his own one, and

325
00:17:17.940 --> 00:17:21.180
that's exactly the show functioning as it should, I think.

326
00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:40.619
One of my favourite concepts in this episode is the idea of the

327
00:17:40.619 --> 00:17:42.960
emotional contagion of grief.

328
00:17:43.740 --> 00:17:49.380
I don't know whether it's at the same time as this or slightly

329
00:17:49.380 --> 00:17:54.059
before or after, but Facebook got in a bit of trouble for doing

330
00:17:54.059 --> 00:18:00.119
widespread experiments on their uses by promoting certain posts to

331
00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:05.279
the top of feeds in a whole range of people's Facebook feeds and

332
00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:09.180
seeing how the emotions that they were, I believe they were

333
00:18:09.180 --> 00:18:15.180
negative emotions, which is incredibly problematic. how those

334
00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:22.380
posts affected the friends in your friends list when they read

335
00:18:22.380 --> 00:18:26.519
those posts and how they how that emotional contagion spread.

336
00:18:26.579 --> 00:18:32.279
And it's, um, I mean, that's, that's got a lot of uh, um, ethical

337
00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:33.059
issues.

338
00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:39.960
But in this episode, like it's a really interesting concept to

339
00:18:39.960 --> 00:18:44.099
take that and show how it spread like a plague and how these

340
00:18:44.099 --> 00:18:50.579
robots who don't quite understand human emotions deal with that by

341
00:18:50.579 --> 00:18:51.960
killing everybody.

342
00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:58.799
So, in fact, the spread of the, those deaths is explicitly linked

343
00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:03.299
to the idea of virality, which is obviously an idea that comes

344
00:19:03.299 --> 00:19:06.240
from viruses originally, but does actually refer to things

345
00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:07.319
spreading online.

346
00:19:07.380 --> 00:19:12.359
And, you know, like even media things, I think we've got the right

347
00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:16.319
wing entertainment industry, which is rendering all of our

348
00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:20.519
grandparents kind of unfit for human companionship.

349
00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:26.700
But here I think, and there is something that I want to come to

350
00:19:26.700 --> 00:19:34.440
later is that this episode has a real suspicion of technology and

351
00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:37.680
in particular the kind of technology that teenagers or young

352
00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:39.960
people use, we will get there.

353
00:19:40.019 --> 00:19:45.359
But I also think that that scene where we discover the virality of

354
00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:45.720
it.

355
00:19:45.779 --> 00:19:48.000
And we, that's what we'd seen, isn't it?

356
00:19:48.059 --> 00:19:51.779
That's what that opening scene with Mina Anwar is telling us that

357
00:19:51.779 --> 00:19:57.000
the grief is catching, uh, because she tells, she's just speech

358
00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:03.119
with, with, you know, mum is dead, and her friend's sunshine is

359
00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:03.720
also dead.

360
00:20:03.779 --> 00:20:06.480
The whole, whole, all about the people are dead.

361
00:20:06.539 --> 00:20:08.519
Smile, you know.

362
00:20:08.519 --> 00:20:12.420
That emotional contagion study was 2014.

363
00:20:12.660 --> 00:20:16.019
So it could have it could have influenced this episode.

364
00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:22.140
And what's interesting about Frank Cultural Boyce is he went on a

365
00:20:22.140 --> 00:20:26.099
conference which was designed to bring together authors of science

366
00:20:26.099 --> 00:20:31.619
fiction with scientists to capitalise on current scientific ideas

367
00:20:31.619 --> 00:20:34.619
put them in science fiction, and that's actually where the Vardi

368
00:20:34.619 --> 00:20:35.940
get their name from.

369
00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:42.000
He met a professor, Dr. Andrew Vardi, who is an associate

370
00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:46.259
professor working in swarm robotics at a university in Canada.

371
00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:50.160
And after he wrote the script, he emailed Dr. Vardi and said, I've

372
00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:53.880
named the swarms of robots after you and Dr. Vardi was over the

373
00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:54.420
moon with that.

374
00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:01.799
We just never hear the same story about Dr. Dalek, do we?

375
00:21:02.700 --> 00:21:04.980
Salvador to his mates.

376
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:10.740
But yeah, what you're saying there about emotional contagion, James

377
00:21:10.740 --> 00:21:11.759
of the science behind it.

378
00:21:11.819 --> 00:21:17.819
Frank Cottrell boys actually viewed emoji very favourably, he

379
00:21:17.819 --> 00:21:19.740
thought this is an evolution of language.

380
00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:23.279
This is a new idea coming about, and you can actually convey

381
00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:27.839
emotion more easily and readily than you can with text alone.

382
00:21:27.900 --> 00:21:33.240
Whereas Stephen Moffatt was baffled by emoji and said, I never

383
00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:36.180
used them, but Jenna would use them in every text and I didn't

384
00:21:36.180 --> 00:21:37.200
know what was going on.

385
00:21:37.259 --> 00:21:42.240
And you get those 2 voices in the program, you get Bill going, it

386
00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:43.019
speaks emoji.

387
00:21:43.079 --> 00:21:46.259
This is amazing, and you get the doctor saying, of course, that's

388
00:21:46.259 --> 00:21:49.380
what survives for 1000s of...

389
00:21:49.619 --> 00:21:54.420
What I find interesting is the doctor and Bill's emotional states

390
00:21:54.420 --> 00:21:56.579
influence each other as well.

391
00:21:56.640 --> 00:21:57.599
Yeah.

392
00:21:57.660 --> 00:22:02.220
And in a way, Bill's enthusiasm actually tempers the doctor's

393
00:22:02.220 --> 00:22:02.640
fear.

394
00:22:02.700 --> 00:22:04.619
Like when he's exploring the city by himself.

395
00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:07.680
He's really afraid, but as soon as Bill comes after him, he's all

396
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:09.420
laughter and smiles and jokes again.

397
00:22:09.779 --> 00:22:14.579
There's also that wonderful bit which calls back to her 1st

398
00:22:14.579 --> 00:22:18.960
episode, which is when she's confused or doesn't understand

399
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:20.519
something she smiles.

400
00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:24.599
And there's a moment where she's bemused by something about the

401
00:22:24.599 --> 00:22:28.140
Vardis and the emoji bots, and she smiles because she doesn't

402
00:22:28.140 --> 00:22:32.640
understand, and the emoticon her back lights up with a little

403
00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:32.940
smile.

404
00:22:33.059 --> 00:22:36.119
It's the bit, isn't it, just before she says, you are such a great

405
00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:38.940
tutor, which I just think is wonderful.

406
00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:40.140
It's so good.

407
00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:41.759
It's one of my favourite moments.

408
00:22:41.819 --> 00:22:45.900
And that thing that Moffatt hits on for her 1st episode is the

409
00:22:45.900 --> 00:22:49.140
thing that the doctor notices, that she smiles when she comes

410
00:22:49.140 --> 00:22:51.779
across something she doesn't understand and that's what attracts

411
00:22:51.779 --> 00:22:52.740
him to her.

412
00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:54.240
Seeing it there.

413
00:22:54.299 --> 00:22:55.259
And it's wonderful.

414
00:22:55.319 --> 00:22:57.240
Like, like, Pearl's face just lights up.

415
00:22:57.299 --> 00:22:57.960
It's terrific.

416
00:22:58.019 --> 00:22:59.339
Yeah, definitely.

417
00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:01.619
I love the energy she brings with that, the excitement of

418
00:23:01.619 --> 00:23:04.859
exploring new things, and it kind of makes you feel like you're

419
00:23:04.859 --> 00:23:07.740
exploring it for the 1st time again, because you guys have talked

420
00:23:07.740 --> 00:23:11.460
about having to introduce the TARDIS again and all of that in

421
00:23:11.460 --> 00:23:15.059
other episodes of beginning of seasons and this is cute.

422
00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:20.220
This feels different and she's excited and asks not 2 clueless

423
00:23:20.220 --> 00:23:24.720
questions so that she's completely stupid, but just fun in it and

424
00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:28.140
wanting to know and getting excited and yeah, happy to be there.

425
00:23:28.200 --> 00:23:29.039
Yeah.

426
00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:33.180
The show hadn't had this for a long time.

427
00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:39.059
Jenna is introduced in 2012 initially, isn't she?

428
00:23:39.180 --> 00:23:42.539
And then properly introduces the new companion the next year

429
00:23:42.539 --> 00:23:45.660
leading into the 50th.

430
00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:48.539
This is 4 years later.

431
00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:52.859
And this is the 1st time we get a new jumping on point with a new

432
00:23:52.859 --> 00:23:55.980
audience identification figure.

433
00:23:56.039 --> 00:24:00.180
Like, I think, you know, you just jump into Doctor Who with

434
00:24:00.180 --> 00:24:01.920
whatever's on when you start watching it.

435
00:24:01.980 --> 00:24:05.039
I think that it's a show that doesn't really need a jumping on

436
00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:09.839
point because the premise is so thin, not thin, but it's not

437
00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:10.680
complicated.

438
00:24:10.859 --> 00:24:15.900
But I do think that there is something about that regular thing of

439
00:24:15.900 --> 00:24:20.339
having a new person in and introducing them to the show and seeing

440
00:24:20.339 --> 00:24:22.980
their reaction, which really does lift the show.

441
00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:27.539
And you remember when Russell 1st started it back in 2005, he had

442
00:24:27.539 --> 00:24:31.380
no idea that he'd be saying goodbye to the doctor at the end of

443
00:24:31.380 --> 00:24:34.200
that 1st year and then goodbye to Billy at the end of the

444
00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:34.799
following year.

445
00:24:34.859 --> 00:24:37.859
This could have just been the show starring Christopher Eccleston

446
00:24:37.859 --> 00:24:40.079
and Billy Piper for years and then it stops.

447
00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:42.660
And he says, you know, we're not going to introduce the idea of

448
00:24:42.660 --> 00:24:43.440
regeneration.

449
00:24:43.500 --> 00:24:46.140
We're not going to do any of that until we have to.

450
00:24:46.259 --> 00:24:51.839
But it turns out, you know, he changes cast every year that he

451
00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:54.720
does the show and it works really well.

452
00:24:54.779 --> 00:24:56.160
It's a really good thing.

453
00:24:56.220 --> 00:24:58.859
And we have missed that with Moffer.

454
00:24:58.920 --> 00:25:02.339
You know, we had 3 years of Rory and Amy.

455
00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:07.680
We had quite a bit of Jenna, for whom the relationship with a

456
00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:09.599
doctor becomes an addiction or a problem.

457
00:25:09.660 --> 00:25:11.160
It's problematized in some ways.

458
00:25:11.220 --> 00:25:16.920
And so having this doctor just uncomplicatedly decide to take his

459
00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:20.700
new friend off into space, he's showing off to her.

460
00:25:20.700 --> 00:25:23.460
You know how he tries to impress her by saying, oh, I stole it.

461
00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:27.180
I'm kind of cool. stole it from you.

462
00:25:27.240 --> 00:25:29.519
Like all of that works so well.

463
00:25:29.579 --> 00:25:30.599
It's just tremendous.

464
00:25:30.660 --> 00:25:33.000
I think it's really, really good, it lifts the show in a great

465
00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:33.240
way.

466
00:25:33.299 --> 00:25:38.819
Yeah, my sister, she tapped out when Kapati came on board.

467
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:41.759
She battled her way through the Matt Smith.

468
00:25:41.819 --> 00:25:44.700
Her doctors, David Tennant, and that writing.

469
00:25:44.700 --> 00:25:50.880
And I told her to get back into it from this season because it was

470
00:25:50.880 --> 00:25:52.319
more what she was used to.

471
00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:54.420
And so, and she really enjoyed it.

472
00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:58.559
Yeah, I think that this season is that, and it is, we talked a

473
00:25:58.559 --> 00:26:01.079
little bit about it last time, because Moffatt comes back for the

474
00:26:01.079 --> 00:26:04.500
final season, but he wasn't expecting to do it, and so

475
00:26:04.500 --> 00:26:06.299
everything's sort of tied up.

476
00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:07.920
There's nothing much up in the air.

477
00:26:07.980 --> 00:26:10.619
He knows he's only doing it for one year.

478
00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:13.559
And so he doesn't create a big complex puzzle box or anything like

479
00:26:13.559 --> 00:26:13.859
that.

480
00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:17.759
He just tells Doctor Who stories for a year with a companion who's

481
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:22.500
just a normal person rather than a strange, you know, as Brendan

482
00:26:22.500 --> 00:26:24.720
said, I think, a complex space-time event.

483
00:26:24.779 --> 00:26:26.220
She's just a person.

484
00:26:26.339 --> 00:26:28.140
And it works terrifically well.

485
00:26:28.200 --> 00:26:30.240
It's actually a real breath of fresh air, I think.

486
00:26:30.299 --> 00:26:31.200
Yeah, agree.

487
00:26:37.859 --> 00:26:42.420
So, one of the problems I had with Frank Cottrell Boyce last time

488
00:26:42.420 --> 00:26:46.500
was, and it's the same problem, I think, or one of the same

489
00:26:46.500 --> 00:26:51.359
problems that Brendan has, was the children are overmedicated

490
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:54.660
these days and should consider stopping taking their medication.

491
00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:59.880
And that seems like a particularly old man sort of point to make.

492
00:26:59.880 --> 00:27:08.759
And I have to say that I think that there is suspicion of young

493
00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:14.460
people and their technology, and I'm not entirely sure that it is

494
00:27:14.460 --> 00:27:19.380
all from Moffat, remember the line that the doctor says, where

495
00:27:19.380 --> 00:27:25.680
emojis have come and it's the utopia of vacuous teens, you know, we

496
00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:29.880
communicate via texting and emojis and that's how young people

497
00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:31.559
communicate and that's a problem.

498
00:27:31.619 --> 00:27:36.059
And I also think part of the thing, part of the reason why I don't

499
00:27:36.059 --> 00:27:40.559
think anyone's really on board with emoji as a way of

500
00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:44.640
communication is that the emoji bots emoji game is really bad.

501
00:27:44.700 --> 00:27:46.799
Like they're really bad in it.

502
00:27:47.700 --> 00:27:53.400
There are things that aren't emojis. like they look kind of a bit

503
00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:59.279
crap, you know, compared to actual emojis and and I don't know.

504
00:27:59.339 --> 00:28:03.059
Like, there just seems to me to be this thing.

505
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:07.619
Like, like, Bill decides to take the photo with her phone.

506
00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:08.700
Do you know what I mean?

507
00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:10.140
We make a big thing about that.

508
00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:13.619
And it's kind of like we all take photos of documents and things

509
00:28:13.619 --> 00:28:16.140
that we want to see and we all do it all the time and why does it

510
00:28:16.140 --> 00:28:19.200
take bills so long and why is that a bill thing?

511
00:28:19.259 --> 00:28:22.559
You know, young people take photos on their phones and, and, you

512
00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:26.339
know, Bill's response to having the watch me call it.

513
00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:27.480
I think the doctor calls it.

514
00:28:27.539 --> 00:28:28.740
Does he call it a thingam bomb?

515
00:28:28.799 --> 00:28:30.359
Yeah, think about the thing about...

516
00:28:30.420 --> 00:28:33.660
Yeah, where the ear upgrade thing, which does get a role.

517
00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:38.339
Her response to that is sort of like a bit ridiculous, you know

518
00:28:38.339 --> 00:28:41.519
like, oh, I'll never have to recharge my phone again.

519
00:28:41.579 --> 00:28:45.000
My ear's just been invaded by some strange technology.

520
00:28:45.059 --> 00:28:46.140
I have no control over.

521
00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:47.759
I don't have to charge my phone.

522
00:28:47.819 --> 00:28:48.720
Yeah, yeah.

523
00:28:48.779 --> 00:28:52.380
And I kind of think that's a bit of a shame.

524
00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:54.180
Doctor Who, we've said before.

525
00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:58.019
It's not always, you know, up to the moment with the latest trends

526
00:28:58.019 --> 00:28:58.559
and stuff.

527
00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:02.339
And I mean, it's doing an emoji episode years after we've all been

528
00:29:02.339 --> 00:29:03.779
using them for a long time.

529
00:29:04.500 --> 00:29:08.339
Yeah, this strange thing that teenagers are suddenly into.

530
00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:13.799
And it seems to do a bad job of actually giving us a sense of what

531
00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:15.119
it is and how it works.

532
00:29:15.180 --> 00:29:20.400
My favourite example of the failure of those emojis is the fact

533
00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:26.880
that they think the pound's still going to exist. in what 10,000

534
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:27.480
years time.

535
00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:32.519
But I mean, there is that emoji with the dollar, isn't there?

536
00:29:32.579 --> 00:29:34.500
Is it like, is it money sort of?

537
00:29:34.500 --> 00:29:35.759
No, it's a pound.

538
00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:38.039
But I mean, in real life, you know.

539
00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:38.640
Oh, yeah.

540
00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:40.440
Yeah, with the tongue out, yeah.

541
00:29:40.500 --> 00:29:44.220
I just find it creepy that the robot's got 3 mouths when it does

542
00:29:44.220 --> 00:29:45.660
the smiley emoji.

543
00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:49.619
It's got 3 mouths and it's like, it just doesn't quite...

544
00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:52.440
No, it's like, I think it's kind of crap.

545
00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:57.059
And I'm not super sold on the actual physical robots themselves.

546
00:29:57.180 --> 00:30:00.359
They've got a cute pot belly and stuff like that, which I guess is

547
00:30:00.359 --> 00:30:01.619
a thing.

548
00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:02.759
I don't know.

549
00:30:02.819 --> 00:30:03.539
I don't know.

550
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:08.039
They're a bit Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Disney movie

551
00:30:08.039 --> 00:30:08.940
Marvin.

552
00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:12.299
Well, I think that Marvin is great, actually, I have to say, that

553
00:30:12.299 --> 00:30:13.259
Marvin is pretty good.

554
00:30:13.319 --> 00:30:16.140
I don't think it's anywhere near as good as that But on a BBC

555
00:30:16.140 --> 00:30:17.339
budget. that's right.

556
00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:22.799
Yeah, we do have Quran Shah as the as the main emoji bot who had

557
00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:25.380
previously appeared as the creature in listen.

558
00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:31.740
And much like his contemporary, Deep Roy, has a long history.

559
00:30:31.799 --> 00:30:33.480
He, you know, he's a little person.

560
00:30:33.539 --> 00:30:36.480
He has a long history of playing the same kind of roles that say

561
00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:39.539
Deep Roy and Warwick Davis have played in the past.

562
00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:42.900
Like he was an e-wok. you know, all those sorts of roles you might

563
00:30:42.900 --> 00:30:43.259
expect.

564
00:30:43.380 --> 00:30:45.420
I actually quite like the robot designs.

565
00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:49.920
I feel like they're sort of a rundown version of the handbots from

566
00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:54.539
the girl who waited, which I loved and a little bit going right

567
00:30:54.539 --> 00:30:54.960
back.

568
00:30:55.019 --> 00:30:59.220
They're a little bit of a smaller version of the IMC robots from

569
00:30:59.220 --> 00:31:02.460
Colony in space, but you know, obviously you don't have to fit 3

570
00:31:02.460 --> 00:31:04.859
people inside it, so it doesn't have to take up half the studio.

571
00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:07.680
The cleaners from Paradise Towers.

572
00:31:07.740 --> 00:31:09.180
I'm exactly...

573
00:31:09.240 --> 00:31:10.079
Right.

574
00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:12.720
You know, all these small robots.

575
00:31:12.779 --> 00:31:13.259
Yeah.

576
00:31:13.319 --> 00:31:16.380
And I think, you know, part of the thing of making them sort of

577
00:31:16.380 --> 00:31:20.759
3.5, 4 foot tall is we automatically think they're on

578
00:31:20.759 --> 00:31:21.660
threatening.

579
00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:22.319
Yeah.

580
00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:25.200
And the doctor and Bill kind of go along with that as well.

581
00:31:25.259 --> 00:31:29.759
Bill adores the robot, but we've already seen what happened in the

582
00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:30.420
pre-titles.

583
00:31:31.259 --> 00:31:34.500
So is this basically episode 6 of the Chase?

584
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:39.720
So that is actually pretty great.

585
00:31:39.779 --> 00:31:42.900
And there's no way that Cultural Boys is aware of episode 6 of the

586
00:31:42.900 --> 00:31:44.819
chase, although I may well be wrong.

587
00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:48.779
But the idea that you send the robots ahead to build the colony

588
00:31:48.779 --> 00:31:49.200
for you.

589
00:31:49.259 --> 00:31:54.420
I do think that, I don't know, maybe they're commoditized.

590
00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:58.440
Maybe you can just churn out 1000000000s of nanobots in one go

591
00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:01.859
because I think building a massive giant building out of them

592
00:32:01.859 --> 00:32:04.440
seems to be kind of excessive.

593
00:32:04.500 --> 00:32:06.779
I watched Waters of Mars recently.

594
00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:10.380
And I spent a lot of time thinking, how did they build this

595
00:32:10.380 --> 00:32:12.720
massive base for all of these people?

596
00:32:12.779 --> 00:32:18.539
They also have robots that made the base as well, but it's a line

597
00:32:18.539 --> 00:32:22.380
that's just papering over something that's clearly just terribly

598
00:32:22.380 --> 00:32:23.220
ridiculous.

599
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:27.299
So I don't quite know why we decided to make the thing out of the

600
00:32:27.299 --> 00:32:28.920
emoji bots.

601
00:32:28.980 --> 00:32:31.559
I guess there's some good visuals that come out.

602
00:32:31.619 --> 00:32:32.400
Dramatic tension.

603
00:32:32.460 --> 00:32:33.000
Yeah.

604
00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:35.279
They could jump on you at any moment from any wall.

605
00:32:35.339 --> 00:32:38.579
I mean, right at the beginning, the ones that attack Kesia. you

606
00:32:38.579 --> 00:32:42.359
know, detach themselves from a sort of pile on the roof and they'd

607
00:32:42.359 --> 00:32:42.839
land on her.

608
00:32:42.900 --> 00:32:43.740
So I guess there's that.

609
00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:44.460
Yeah.

610
00:32:44.460 --> 00:32:47.460
It's one of the ideas that Frank Cottro boys picked up from that

611
00:32:47.460 --> 00:32:50.759
scientific conference he went to and talking to Dr. Vardi and Dr

612
00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:54.839
Vardi said, we'd send robots 1st and nano robots or something

613
00:32:54.839 --> 00:32:57.660
already well established in the new season of Doctor Who.

614
00:32:57.720 --> 00:33:00.299
And there is also the concept, and I can't remember who came up

615
00:33:00.299 --> 00:33:00.599
with it.

616
00:33:00.660 --> 00:33:04.740
But the concept of gray goo and the danger of making nanobots that

617
00:33:04.740 --> 00:33:08.700
can say break down at carbon into its constituents and reform it

618
00:33:08.700 --> 00:33:12.660
into something else is that eventually they'll start breaking down

619
00:33:12.660 --> 00:33:15.779
the planet to put it into something more efficient and you just

620
00:33:15.779 --> 00:33:18.839
end up with this sphere of gray goo.

621
00:33:18.900 --> 00:33:22.980
And so that was another idea that sort of informed him of, okay

622
00:33:22.980 --> 00:33:25.859
we're sending robots to colonise this planet, but it's Doctor

623
00:33:25.859 --> 00:33:26.279
Who.

624
00:33:26.339 --> 00:33:27.420
So what's going to go wrong?

625
00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:28.980
Yeah.

626
00:33:29.099 --> 00:33:34.559
I mean, Doctor Who has a history mostly in the new series of

627
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:38.640
technology going wrong in a way that is just entirely preposterous

628
00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:42.359
and completely designed to produce sort of great visuals.

629
00:33:42.420 --> 00:33:45.779
And that's right from the beginning where people's faces are

630
00:33:45.779 --> 00:33:49.859
turning into gas masks and stuff like that in the empty child

631
00:33:49.859 --> 00:33:55.380
which is, again, nanopots go crazy, misread what human beings need

632
00:33:55.380 --> 00:34:00.299
by, you know, analysing little Jamie's body or something and then

633
00:34:00.299 --> 00:34:03.839
going viral and sort of creating this effect everywhere.

634
00:34:03.900 --> 00:34:07.319
And the show has helped itself to this quite a lot in the

635
00:34:07.319 --> 00:34:09.059
intervening period.

636
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:13.619
And this is the 2nd episode in a row, in fact, where we've had

637
00:34:13.619 --> 00:34:17.760
technology getting out of hand, you know, wild future technology

638
00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:20.699
getting out of hand and affecting people and stuff and being the

639
00:34:20.699 --> 00:34:21.179
main thing.

640
00:34:21.239 --> 00:34:22.619
And I think that's fine.

641
00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:24.179
That's the thing that Doctor Who could do.

642
00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:27.719
And if it allows the sort of visuals that we get in this episode

643
00:34:27.719 --> 00:34:29.039
then I'm forward, I think.

644
00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:44.460
I think that we should talk about what happens at the end.

645
00:34:44.519 --> 00:34:53.579
So at 30 minutes, we meet praiseworthy, who is the little kid, and

646
00:34:53.579 --> 00:34:58.199
then soon after that, we meet steadfast, who's the chief medic, and

647
00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:01.739
chief med tech, med tech, chief med tech, quiet, right.

648
00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:05.460
That's got to be a Moffat thing taken from the ark in space

649
00:35:05.460 --> 00:35:05.940
doesn't it?

650
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:08.940
And the thing that you said before, James, where the doctor's

651
00:35:08.940 --> 00:35:12.599
theorising all the way through about what's happening here, but

652
00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:15.960
getting it wrong and discovering that there isn't a colony ship on

653
00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:16.320
its way.

654
00:35:16.380 --> 00:35:17.280
It's already here.

655
00:35:17.699 --> 00:35:22.199
I have to say that my opinion was always that this is the pier

656
00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:23.940
where it all falls to pieces.

657
00:35:24.780 --> 00:35:27.780
Yeah, I agree with that.

658
00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:33.300
The storyline gets very thin from that point onwards, like to the

659
00:35:33.300 --> 00:35:34.079
point at one point.

660
00:35:34.139 --> 00:35:36.000
I rewound and went, did I miss something?

661
00:35:36.059 --> 00:35:37.199
Like right at the end.

662
00:35:38.340 --> 00:35:40.320
I mean, it makes sense.

663
00:35:40.380 --> 00:35:42.179
He worked out.

664
00:35:42.300 --> 00:35:47.039
The majority of it that the ships were coming, so we sets off the

665
00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:51.420
explosion without checking, I don't know, like just a few points

666
00:35:51.420 --> 00:35:54.300
in the plot that were very amiss.

667
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:56.219
Where's his due diligence?

668
00:35:57.300 --> 00:35:58.619
Study before he does that.

669
00:35:58.679 --> 00:36:02.039
Well, actually, I think before we properly launching to how

670
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:03.000
terrible that ending is.

671
00:36:03.059 --> 00:36:06.059
I have to say that there is a moment there, which I think is

672
00:36:06.059 --> 00:36:09.119
really good, but where Bill gets to realise that the doctor's not

673
00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:12.659
just the tutor, but that he is the helpline.

674
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:16.440
Yes, that's right, that he's advice and assistance available

675
00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:17.340
immediately.

676
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:18.659
You know, it's on the box.

677
00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:21.119
It does what it says on the tin.

678
00:36:21.179 --> 00:36:22.920
And that's a great moment, I think.

679
00:36:22.980 --> 00:36:27.000
And even the doctor's line where I've got a childish impulse to go

680
00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:27.780
and blow it up.

681
00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:29.519
It is pretty awesome.

682
00:36:29.579 --> 00:36:31.860
That is pretty great.

683
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:35.400
And obviously he does get to reflect for a 2nd that he could have

684
00:36:35.400 --> 00:36:36.840
blown up everyone on earth.

685
00:36:36.900 --> 00:36:42.119
He does realise that he'd been a little bit premature.

686
00:36:42.179 --> 00:36:47.099
But I do like that moment because that is the last thing that Bill

687
00:36:47.099 --> 00:36:48.659
doesn't know about the doctor.

688
00:36:48.719 --> 00:36:52.500
She knows that he travels in time and space and stuff, but what

689
00:36:52.500 --> 00:36:57.360
she doesn't know about him is that he saves planets and she

690
00:36:57.360 --> 00:36:59.039
realises that that's what's going on.

691
00:36:59.099 --> 00:37:01.199
And I thought that was a great moment and I thought that making

692
00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:04.260
that the last big revelation, the last big thing that she learns

693
00:37:04.260 --> 00:37:05.340
about the doctor is pretty good.

694
00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:09.480
Saving it up to be a big dramatic sort of moment for her and a

695
00:37:09.480 --> 00:37:12.119
realisation in this episode is great.

696
00:37:12.179 --> 00:37:17.340
It gives that 2nd half of the episode a bit more punch that maybe

697
00:37:17.340 --> 00:37:20.519
it doesn't necessarily have with the ongoing plot of the episode.

698
00:37:20.579 --> 00:37:24.960
She mentions it a little bit earlier saying about him being the

699
00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:28.739
helper and he doesn't like being referred to as that and he says, I

700
00:37:28.739 --> 00:37:29.519
just happen to be here.

701
00:37:29.579 --> 00:37:33.059
But then it's, I mentioned again later at that point.

702
00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:35.460
So it's like, oh, that's interesting.

703
00:37:35.519 --> 00:37:36.360
It's, yeah.

704
00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:41.880
It sort of goes back to the beast below a little bit as well where

705
00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:45.239
you know, Amy convinces the doctor do the right thing by pointing

706
00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:48.659
out that, you know, when you're very old and very kind and you're

707
00:37:48.659 --> 00:37:51.719
the last of your kind, you go out and you rescue children and

708
00:37:51.719 --> 00:37:52.500
that's what you do.

709
00:37:52.500 --> 00:37:55.559
And, you know, for years, I've said, I have a problem with that

710
00:37:55.559 --> 00:37:57.539
because it relies on the doctor being stupid.

711
00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:01.739
Whereas here the idea is a lot more refined because the doctor's

712
00:38:01.739 --> 00:38:05.219
going off and doing this thing and trying to keep Bill safe and

713
00:38:05.219 --> 00:38:07.500
telling her to stay in the TARDIS, you know.

714
00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:10.500
So he, like he's learned from that experience.

715
00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:15.480
And so Bill throwing herself back into the adventure is it's an

716
00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:19.920
informed choice and it is a supportive choice of what the doctor's

717
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:20.219
doing.

718
00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:23.880
It's not sort of butting heads and saying, no, like, we have to be

719
00:38:23.880 --> 00:38:24.900
on opposite sides of this.

720
00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:27.119
It's like, no, no, no, we are on the same side, now I understand

721
00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:28.500
everything that's going on.

722
00:38:28.559 --> 00:38:32.880
But yeah, I agree that sort of once the colonists start waking up

723
00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:37.320
things take a bit of a plot convenience turn.

724
00:38:37.380 --> 00:38:40.500
You know, it's kind of like we have to raise the stakes, so

725
00:38:40.500 --> 00:38:44.280
praiseworthy has to wander off without the doctor realising I can

726
00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:49.320
accept, without Bill noticing, I find much harder to accept

727
00:38:49.320 --> 00:38:52.380
because Bill is like, yeah, come with me down to the engine room

728
00:38:52.380 --> 00:38:57.719
that I know is going to blow up shortly. and then wander off.

729
00:38:57.780 --> 00:39:02.099
I have to say that I did like the way that the threat was that he

730
00:39:02.099 --> 00:39:05.039
was going to be the new patient zero, that he was going to

731
00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:08.519
discover that his mother was gone and then he was going to die and

732
00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:11.760
that was going to sort of start the whole thing through the new

733
00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:12.539
colonist.

734
00:39:12.599 --> 00:39:15.420
So I thought that was really good, you know, and the revelation

735
00:39:15.420 --> 00:39:19.440
that the little locket that the doctor had picked up from the

736
00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:22.679
arboretum or whatever, had a picture of him in it.

737
00:39:22.739 --> 00:39:24.239
Like, I thought that was great.

738
00:39:24.300 --> 00:39:29.880
But the episode relied on steadfast being a massive idiot for a

739
00:39:29.880 --> 00:39:31.079
start, didn't it?

740
00:39:31.139 --> 00:39:35.880
Like he's just going to go and fire on the things, even though he

741
00:39:35.880 --> 00:39:39.659
has to know that the entire colony is made out of them.

742
00:39:39.719 --> 00:39:42.300
You know, or only the shepherds knew that.

743
00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:43.199
That seems unlikely.

744
00:39:43.260 --> 00:39:47.400
Well, if he said tech medic, then he would know how to deal with

745
00:39:47.400 --> 00:39:47.699
these.

746
00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:49.139
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

747
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:50.340
That doesn't make any sense.

748
00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:54.059
And then the doctor just presses to solve the plot button and he

749
00:39:54.059 --> 00:39:56.219
presses it and it works.

750
00:39:56.219 --> 00:40:01.800
And then like, is there something political going on here?

751
00:40:01.860 --> 00:40:03.900
Because I think it's pretty thin.

752
00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:08.340
Because the doctor says, like every slave class in history, the

753
00:40:08.340 --> 00:40:10.739
Vardia, beginning to have ideas of their own.

754
00:40:11.639 --> 00:40:17.400
And so the doctor wipes their memories. so that the human beings

755
00:40:17.400 --> 00:40:21.360
and Lavardi are on equal footing and so they have to collaborate

756
00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:23.400
in the new colony.

757
00:40:23.460 --> 00:40:24.420
Do you know what I mean?

758
00:40:24.480 --> 00:40:27.420
So it's better for human beings to not have slaves, but they

759
00:40:27.420 --> 00:40:29.579
should have people they can collaborate with.

760
00:40:29.639 --> 00:40:31.139
But I don't know.

761
00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:34.920
Yeah, I, I, that's the thing I have a big problem with in this

762
00:40:34.920 --> 00:40:39.119
episode is the fact that they rely on a reset button to save the

763
00:40:39.119 --> 00:40:42.239
day because they've written themselves into a corner, probably.

764
00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:46.139
And these ascension beings and you've wiped their memories.

765
00:40:46.199 --> 00:40:47.940
Oh, the doctor does that all the time.

766
00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:49.260
No, I just I don't know.

767
00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:50.159
I just find that...

768
00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:51.059
Ask Noor Khan.

769
00:40:52.139 --> 00:40:55.679
Well, I mean, if they were human beings and they he wiped their

770
00:40:55.679 --> 00:40:57.360
memories and that would be problematic, right?

771
00:40:57.480 --> 00:40:59.460
Just because they're robots.

772
00:40:59.519 --> 00:41:03.900
They're sentient robots, like you are literally robbing them of

773
00:41:03.900 --> 00:41:04.500
their identity.

774
00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:07.920
But and the mere fact that they consider themselves under threat

775
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:13.019
and they're going to retaliate, a rabid dog behaves like that.

776
00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:13.739
Do you know what I mean?

777
00:41:13.800 --> 00:41:14.460
Or a rat.

778
00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:18.059
Like, you know, so we've decided they're sentient, okay, because

779
00:41:18.059 --> 00:41:21.119
he looks at the emoji that are playing across its face and it's, so

780
00:41:21.119 --> 00:41:22.260
it's defending itself.

781
00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:25.199
All right, like, that's okay, but I'm not sure that's completely

782
00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:25.800
sold.

783
00:41:25.860 --> 00:41:28.559
And then we wipe them memories.

784
00:41:28.619 --> 00:41:31.559
I don't know No, so I didn't take it as I'm being sentuent at the

785
00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:31.800
start.

786
00:41:31.860 --> 00:41:35.099
I thought that maybe it happened after he reset them because I

787
00:41:35.099 --> 00:41:38.159
just thought it was bad programming that we talk about them not

788
00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:39.360
understanding the human way.

789
00:41:39.420 --> 00:41:40.559
They were actually trying to help.

790
00:41:40.619 --> 00:41:44.940
They thought they were helping by eradicating the sadness would

791
00:41:44.940 --> 00:41:46.380
stop other people from being sad.

792
00:41:46.440 --> 00:41:48.480
So it was more like a programming fault.

793
00:41:48.539 --> 00:41:51.539
So then when you wipe their memory.

794
00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:55.860
So that was where I was like, it wasn't quite clear as to where

795
00:41:55.860 --> 00:41:56.280
that was going.

796
00:41:56.340 --> 00:42:02.340
There is a line in that 1st scene where Kezia says who programmed

797
00:42:02.340 --> 00:42:05.400
this, like they shouldn't be behaving like that, who programmed

798
00:42:05.400 --> 00:42:05.639
this.

799
00:42:05.699 --> 00:42:09.780
So the idea that they've they've wandered off their programming or

800
00:42:09.780 --> 00:42:13.500
that they've learned to behave in this way without being

801
00:42:13.500 --> 00:42:16.199
programmed is there, I think.

802
00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:17.820
Does it make it cension?

803
00:42:18.239 --> 00:42:18.960
no, that's right.

804
00:42:19.019 --> 00:42:23.579
It's not quite, it's not quite salt enough, I think, is the

805
00:42:23.579 --> 00:42:24.480
problem with that.

806
00:42:24.539 --> 00:42:30.059
Yeah, like it's fair in the 1st scene, but it, it's not threaded

807
00:42:30.059 --> 00:42:33.480
through the pot enough and it doesn't quite hang together at the

808
00:42:33.480 --> 00:42:36.420
end with the, you know, they've developed sentence.

809
00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:40.739
That's why they're trying to kill you now, even though they were

810
00:42:40.739 --> 00:42:42.000
killing you before for your own good.

811
00:42:42.059 --> 00:42:44.699
Now they want to kill you because they think you're a bastard.

812
00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:45.900
You're a threat.

813
00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:50.280
I guess they just ran out of time with the plot as well because

814
00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:54.059
they spent so much time at the start developing the relationship

815
00:42:54.059 --> 00:42:58.260
with the doctor and all of that and the introducing the issue that

816
00:42:58.260 --> 00:43:00.119
I guess it was kind of a, and then they woke up.

817
00:43:00.179 --> 00:43:03.840
Yeah, like I have to say that I don't mind that too much because I

818
00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:07.739
did find the stuff with a doctor and Bill at the beginning.

819
00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:10.440
So much more interesting than what ended up happening.

820
00:43:10.500 --> 00:43:14.820
And so I don't think giving more of it to that plot.

821
00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:18.480
Like, I think they've deliberately, when Doctor Who restarts, I

822
00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:21.480
think it kind of attempts to tell a four-part story very quickly

823
00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:26.159
in 45 minutes and because TV has sped up and because we can afford

824
00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:28.679
to have more scenes, they're quite successful, I think, most of

825
00:43:28.679 --> 00:43:29.039
the time.

826
00:43:29.099 --> 00:43:32.940
But here we've decided to have the thinnest possible kind of

827
00:43:32.940 --> 00:43:37.019
science fiction plot going on, something that can be resolved by

828
00:43:37.019 --> 00:43:41.699
the doctor with the Sonic screwdriver in a 2nd at the end to give

829
00:43:41.699 --> 00:43:45.900
us time to meet Bill and the doctor properly.

830
00:43:46.019 --> 00:43:48.179
And I think that's a good decision.

831
00:43:48.239 --> 00:43:52.079
And, you know, like I could compare it to the end of the world

832
00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:56.400
where it's an insurance scam and the doctor solves it by reversing

833
00:43:56.400 --> 00:44:00.420
a teleporter and yelling at someone and that's really all that

834
00:44:00.420 --> 00:44:00.840
happens.

835
00:44:00.900 --> 00:44:04.440
So it's another one that where the plot isn't so interesting as

836
00:44:04.440 --> 00:44:08.219
the setting and the relationships between the 2 leads.

837
00:44:08.340 --> 00:44:14.340
It's a strange mix of thin sci-fi plot and high concept sci-fi

838
00:44:14.340 --> 00:44:14.699
ideas.

839
00:44:14.820 --> 00:44:15.900
Yeah.

840
00:44:16.079 --> 00:44:18.480
Yeah, I like it for the ideas.

841
00:44:18.539 --> 00:44:19.260
Yeah.

842
00:44:19.320 --> 00:44:20.820
And that's okay, I think.

843
00:44:20.880 --> 00:44:21.360
Probably.

844
00:44:21.420 --> 00:44:22.559
Some beautiful visuals.

845
00:44:22.619 --> 00:44:23.519
Do you know what I mean?

846
00:44:23.579 --> 00:44:27.539
Some interesting ideas, but essentially a plot that is, you know

847
00:44:27.539 --> 00:44:31.019
the we press the kill, so you take button and go on our way.

848
00:44:31.320 --> 00:44:34.739
I mean, admittedly, in my job, that's what I have to do.

849
00:44:34.739 --> 00:44:39.119
Anyways, I've got this really terrible problem with my computer.

850
00:44:39.179 --> 00:44:42.780
I know it's cliche, but you need to restart your computer.

851
00:44:42.840 --> 00:44:44.280
You need to turn it off and on again.

852
00:44:44.340 --> 00:44:46.019
And the problem goes away.

853
00:45:01.920 --> 00:45:07.679
I think we do have, as a sort of Bob Baker, Dave Martin problem of

854
00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:10.139
we have all these ideas, and how long do we have?

855
00:45:10.199 --> 00:45:12.480
Really about 25 minutes.

856
00:45:12.539 --> 00:45:14.940
Well, 15 minutes.

857
00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:16.019
Yeah.

858
00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:17.039
You know what?

859
00:45:17.099 --> 00:45:19.320
It's kind of like, I can see what they're going for.

860
00:45:19.380 --> 00:45:24.300
I don't come away from this feeling. that the ideas don't work.

861
00:45:24.360 --> 00:45:27.300
It's just like, oh, I think I think you just needed to workshop

862
00:45:27.300 --> 00:45:28.559
that a little bit more.

863
00:45:28.619 --> 00:45:32.579
And I think I think maybe it's the whole thing that Colin Baker

864
00:45:32.579 --> 00:45:35.159
talks about in his interpretation of the character in that the

865
00:45:35.159 --> 00:45:38.519
doctor does what's right and that's not necessarily pleasant or

866
00:45:38.519 --> 00:45:38.880
nice.

867
00:45:38.940 --> 00:45:42.960
And, you know, if there had been a little discussion between the

868
00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:46.139
doctor and Bill saying, you know, was it right to white their

869
00:45:46.139 --> 00:45:49.019
memories and the doctor just says, well, it's either that or

870
00:45:49.019 --> 00:45:52.739
everybody dies and this way everyone has a chance to start from

871
00:45:52.739 --> 00:45:57.780
square one and grow together because I think there's an

872
00:45:57.780 --> 00:46:01.559
implication that when Kezi is like, who programmed this?

873
00:46:01.619 --> 00:46:03.900
Okay, so no one's keeping an eye on these robots.

874
00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:08.760
You know, no one is supporting them asking them what they want.

875
00:46:08.940 --> 00:46:13.199
And now we're left with the situation at the end where it's like

876
00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:15.960
well, you've got no choice but to work together to ask what the

877
00:46:15.960 --> 00:46:19.440
robots want and to realise that they are more than what you

878
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:20.280
created.

879
00:46:20.340 --> 00:46:23.039
I don't think it quite lands that.

880
00:46:23.099 --> 00:46:28.019
But sometimes I quite like a story where I'm able to go, oh, but

881
00:46:28.019 --> 00:46:31.440
that means, and da, da, da, da. sometimes it frustrates me to do

882
00:46:31.440 --> 00:46:31.920
that.

883
00:46:31.980 --> 00:46:35.460
But I'm less frustrated with this one than I am with some others.

884
00:46:35.579 --> 00:46:40.079
Don't you think the sequel is they come back to the planet and all

885
00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:44.219
of the humans are slaving away for their emoji bot overlords in a

886
00:46:44.219 --> 00:46:50.400
feudal system of, you know, renting a class, robots, exploiting

887
00:46:50.400 --> 00:46:50.940
everyone?

888
00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:52.440
Okay, big finish.

889
00:46:53.639 --> 00:46:57.360
Okay, well, it's funny you should mention that because the ship is

890
00:46:57.360 --> 00:46:58.739
called Erewhon.

891
00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:06.300
Yes. which is an anagram of nowhere, but it comes from a satirical

892
00:47:06.300 --> 00:47:11.940
novel by Samuel Beckett in the late 1800s, which was a satire of

893
00:47:11.940 --> 00:47:15.960
what a utopia would look like with Victorian values.

894
00:47:16.019 --> 00:47:22.019
And one and one of the inversions it does is people who are

895
00:47:22.019 --> 00:47:25.739
criminal or perform criminal acts are treated as ill.

896
00:47:25.800 --> 00:47:26.760
They're given treatment.

897
00:47:26.820 --> 00:47:30.539
They're given therapy, da da da, which I'm not denigrating that

898
00:47:30.539 --> 00:47:34.260
but people who are actually ill, who have sicknesses, illnesses.

899
00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:37.019
They are treated like criminals and locked away.

900
00:47:37.019 --> 00:47:40.619
And it's kind of like, oh, well, this is for the good of society

901
00:47:40.619 --> 00:47:43.679
because, you know, the criminals don't have any illness.

902
00:47:43.739 --> 00:47:45.480
It's not contagious, so we can treat them.

903
00:47:45.539 --> 00:47:48.000
But you're ill and you're contagious, so we're locking you away.

904
00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:52.019
And that was another, that was another germ of an idea from Frank

905
00:47:52.019 --> 00:47:52.860
Cottrell Boy.

906
00:47:52.920 --> 00:47:56.760
So it's kind of like, I feel like the idea of in the forest of the

907
00:47:56.760 --> 00:48:00.420
night was quite flawed and led to quite a flawed product, in my

908
00:48:00.420 --> 00:48:00.840
opinion.

909
00:48:00.900 --> 00:48:04.079
Whereas this one Frank's just like, I'm throwing everything at the

910
00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:04.260
wall.

911
00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:08.519
I tend to think that in the forest of the night is a bit better

912
00:48:08.519 --> 00:48:14.639
than this, and I think it's because the stakes are high, and it's

913
00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:18.360
because of that moment where Clara tells the doctor to go.

914
00:48:18.420 --> 00:48:22.320
You know, thank you very much for everything, but you can go now.

915
00:48:22.380 --> 00:48:23.519
We're saving you.

916
00:48:23.579 --> 00:48:27.480
And I think the, you know, in this sort of weird, very weird

917
00:48:27.480 --> 00:48:28.199
story.

918
00:48:28.980 --> 00:48:33.539
We get a sort of strange examination of the relationship between

919
00:48:33.539 --> 00:48:34.860
Clara and the doctor.

920
00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:37.500
I just can't hate that, I think.

921
00:48:43.619 --> 00:48:46.199
Right, I'm gonna say something controversial.

922
00:48:46.260 --> 00:48:50.940
I think that space babies, it does a better job than this, of

923
00:48:50.940 --> 00:48:54.960
introducing the world of Doctor Who to a new companion.

924
00:48:55.019 --> 00:48:58.019
Um, because...

925
00:48:58.019 --> 00:48:59.400
Don't tell Simon.

926
00:48:59.579 --> 00:49:05.820
Because, like, this has no characters in it either.

927
00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:06.599
Do you know what I mean?

928
00:49:06.659 --> 00:49:11.039
You've got Mina Anwar, you've got steadfast and praiseworthy, uh

929
00:49:11.039 --> 00:49:17.219
in space babies, uh, you have um, the nurse and you have Eric and

930
00:49:17.219 --> 00:49:17.699
Poppy.

931
00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:23.400
I think space babies, is more kind of, like, I like the sort of

932
00:49:23.400 --> 00:49:29.280
stately emptiness of the 1st 20 minutes of, you know, of smile, but

933
00:49:29.280 --> 00:49:33.719
it's not much like what Doctor Who is like, whereas we get a very

934
00:49:33.719 --> 00:49:37.139
straightforward base under siege story, I think, in space babies.

935
00:49:37.260 --> 00:49:41.760
It just happens to disguise the fact of how trad it is by having

936
00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:43.860
the main guest cast all be babies.

937
00:49:43.980 --> 00:49:48.420
This is the reason, like the reason you think that's better than

938
00:49:48.420 --> 00:49:51.480
this, I think this is better than that, because it does something

939
00:49:51.480 --> 00:49:54.960
different from what Doctor Who Often does with introducing

940
00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:58.260
companions, it's trying something different. like a lot of this

941
00:49:58.260 --> 00:49:58.739
season.

942
00:49:58.800 --> 00:50:01.920
Moffatt's been there, done that over and over again.

943
00:50:01.980 --> 00:50:06.000
And he's trying to do something different.

944
00:50:06.059 --> 00:50:08.400
I know this is not written by him, but obviously it's influenced

945
00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:12.420
quite a lot by his ideas for the shape of the season. doing

946
00:50:12.420 --> 00:50:14.460
something different with the new companion.

947
00:50:14.519 --> 00:50:17.820
I think makes this a lot more interesting.

948
00:50:17.940 --> 00:50:19.980
That's probably fair.

949
00:50:20.039 --> 00:50:20.760
That's fair.

950
00:50:20.820 --> 00:50:24.900
I just think it's sort of, Lord, it fails in a way that space

951
00:50:24.900 --> 00:50:27.719
babies does it because space babies is being made by Russell, who's

952
00:50:27.719 --> 00:50:30.539
written heaps of Doctor Who episodes and kind of knows what he's

953
00:50:30.539 --> 00:50:31.199
doing, I think.

954
00:50:31.320 --> 00:50:34.800
With this one, I enjoyed seeing Capaldi having fun.

955
00:50:34.860 --> 00:50:39.059
Like, I, he, that's the doctor I wanted to see after all those

956
00:50:39.059 --> 00:50:43.320
seasons of Matt Smith and the complicated storylines and all of

957
00:50:43.320 --> 00:50:47.460
that. and then having the impossible girl, Clara, and I was a bit

958
00:50:47.460 --> 00:50:49.380
disappointed going into that.

959
00:50:49.440 --> 00:50:54.119
But this kind of, it was just fun seeing him having fun and having

960
00:50:54.119 --> 00:50:56.820
a bit of a smile and he does that throughout that, I think this

961
00:50:56.820 --> 00:50:57.179
season.

962
00:50:57.239 --> 00:50:58.800
Um, yeah.

963
00:50:59.400 --> 00:51:03.719
I think we get the 1st kind of genuine, like a real proper Capaldi

964
00:51:03.719 --> 00:51:07.320
smile and remember that Clara used to tell him not to do that.

965
00:51:07.380 --> 00:51:09.960
Like, you just don't do that, please, unless they give you

966
00:51:09.960 --> 00:51:12.059
permission, sort of thing, like, don't do the smart.

967
00:51:12.059 --> 00:51:15.900
But the big smile where he and Bill kind of confront the robots.

968
00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:17.280
I think he's really great.

969
00:51:17.340 --> 00:51:19.739
I, you know, yeah.

970
00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:20.219
Yeah.

971
00:51:20.280 --> 00:51:22.440
And he's wearing his chill outfit too, isn't he?

972
00:51:22.500 --> 00:51:24.900
He's got a sort of red t-shirt and a hoodie and stuff.

973
00:51:24.960 --> 00:51:26.400
Like he is properly relaxed.

974
00:51:26.519 --> 00:51:28.800
Wait, isn't it in his very 1st episode?

975
00:51:28.860 --> 00:51:30.840
He talks about angry having angry eyebrows?

976
00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:36.179
Would you notice his emoji, the badge emoji has big eyebrows on

977
00:51:36.179 --> 00:51:36.420
it?

978
00:51:59.639 --> 00:52:03.119
Well, be the snow, that's all the time we have for this week.

979
00:52:03.239 --> 00:52:07.019
We'll be back next week for an important lesson about interacting

980
00:52:07.019 --> 00:52:10.440
with white supremacists in thin ice.

981
00:52:10.559 --> 00:52:14.219
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts

982
00:52:14.219 --> 00:52:16.679
and you can keep up with us on our website, flight through

983
00:52:16.679 --> 00:52:20.159
entirety.com, where you'll find our social media links, as well as

984
00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:23.880
links to all of our other podcasts, including our other Doctor Who

985
00:52:23.880 --> 00:52:28.559
podcasts, 500-year diary, and the 2nd grade and bountiful human

986
00:52:28.559 --> 00:52:29.099
empire.

987
00:52:29.159 --> 00:52:31.559
Bell, where can people find you?

988
00:52:31.619 --> 00:52:37.500
Okay, well, Brendan and I do a podcast called the BJBJ Game Show

989
00:52:37.500 --> 00:52:41.099
and so you can find that on all good places that you find the

990
00:52:41.099 --> 00:52:44.579
podcast, and then we've got some websites that Brendan will tell

991
00:52:44.579 --> 00:52:44.820
you about.

992
00:52:44.940 --> 00:52:50.400
Yep, so we're active on most social medias of choice, and most

993
00:52:50.400 --> 00:52:54.960
podcatchers of choice, and you can find that by searching for BJ

994
00:52:54.960 --> 00:53:00.659
AYBJ Game Show, and our most recent episodes are on the Talos

995
00:53:00.659 --> 00:53:04.380
principle, which took a very long time to play, far longer than we

996
00:53:04.380 --> 00:53:08.820
anticipated, and lost in play, which was delightful and took a lot

997
00:53:08.820 --> 00:53:10.739
less time. perfect.

998
00:53:10.800 --> 00:53:11.699
That's brilliant.

999
00:53:11.820 --> 00:53:15.539
Until next time, maybe you should consider buying your phone a

1000
00:53:15.539 --> 00:53:16.860
nice new case for Christmas.

1001
00:53:16.980 --> 00:53:19.440
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1002
00:53:19.500 --> 00:53:20.280
Good night.

1003
00:53:20.340 --> 00:53:21.239
Good night.

1004
00:53:21.300 --> 00:53:22.380
Ta-ta.

1005
00:53:26.579 --> 00:53:30.539
That was Flight through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, BJ

1006
00:53:30.539 --> 00:53:32.699
Hobbs, Brendan Jones, and James Selwood.

1007
00:53:32.760 --> 00:53:34.800
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1008
00:53:34.860 --> 00:53:38.280
This episode, Happy to Be There, was recorded on the 4th of August

1009
00:53:38.280 --> 00:53:41.820
2024 and released on the 22nd of September.

1010
00:53:42.420 --> 00:53:46.380
If you missed us earlier this year, you'll be happy to learn that

1011
00:53:46.380 --> 00:53:50.039
back in May, we completed a season of a new Doctor Who podcast

1012
00:53:50.039 --> 00:53:52.019
called 500 year diary.

1013
00:53:52.139 --> 00:53:56.699
So if you enjoy this sort of thing, and, of course, you do, head

1014
00:53:56.699 --> 00:53:59.579
over to 500yearDiary.com and check it out.

1015
00:54:03.840 --> 00:54:09.300
So, space babies or, um, smile, Brendan.

1016
00:54:09.900 --> 00:54:12.719
I think I'm going to say smile.

1017
00:54:12.780 --> 00:54:16.079
Not because I dislike space babies in any way.

1018
00:54:16.139 --> 00:54:20.460
But no, I think I'm just going to say smile because I love that

1019
00:54:20.460 --> 00:54:24.059
opening half hour of them wandering around by themselves.

1020
00:54:24.119 --> 00:54:28.019
But something that I don't hear talked about much with space

1021
00:54:28.019 --> 00:54:35.280
babies is as well as, you know, introducing the new companion to

1022
00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:37.800
space travel and time travel.

1023
00:54:37.860 --> 00:54:44.280
Something it does at the end is give the doctor a very obvious

1024
00:54:44.280 --> 00:54:48.000
opportunity to go, oh, okay, this is, this is who I am and this is

1025
00:54:48.000 --> 00:54:51.900
what I do because space babies has the doctor saving the monster.

1026
00:54:52.380 --> 00:54:55.500
Just, you know, just like what happens here.

1027
00:54:55.559 --> 00:54:59.099
You know, the doctor saves the emoji bots and arguably with space

1028
00:54:59.099 --> 00:55:02.699
babies, the doctor doesn't have to change anyone's nature in order

1029
00:55:02.699 --> 00:55:03.360
to save them.

1030
00:55:03.420 --> 00:55:08.519
So that's possibly one area where there's been character growth

1031
00:55:08.519 --> 00:55:13.079
since this one, you know, the doctor doesn't have to change the

1032
00:55:13.079 --> 00:55:15.840
nature, he just has to understand the nature of the relationship.

1033
00:55:15.900 --> 00:55:22.079
Um, and would I give up 5 minutes of Peter Capaldi and Pearl

1034
00:55:22.079 --> 00:55:28.739
Mackey wandering around Spain for um, for a, a tighter

1035
00:55:28.739 --> 00:55:29.340
resolution?

1036
00:55:30.840 --> 00:55:32.699
No, I agree.

1037
00:55:33.300 --> 00:55:36.119
No, no, I don't think I would.

1038
00:55:36.179 --> 00:55:37.139
I don't think I would.

1039
00:55:37.260 --> 00:55:38.699
It could have been more interesting.

1040
00:55:38.820 --> 00:55:41.820
Yeah, look, I mean, it could have been it could have been better.

1041
00:55:41.880 --> 00:55:43.980
I think it could have been better, but it's not the focus of the

1042
00:55:43.980 --> 00:55:46.500
episode and he's just like, let's press the button and get this

1043
00:55:46.500 --> 00:55:49.860
over with and that's a bit disappointing, but it's not the 1st

1044
00:55:49.860 --> 00:55:52.559
Doctor Who story to do that, to be fair.

1045
00:55:52.619 --> 00:55:56.340
Would it have been more interesting if they had never met the

1046
00:55:56.340 --> 00:55:57.480
human colonists?

1047
00:55:57.539 --> 00:56:02.099
Literally, like, they worked the entire pot out and saved the day

1048
00:56:02.099 --> 00:56:04.980
and then revived them at last.

1049
00:56:05.039 --> 00:56:07.920
And revive them and say, bye, we sorted out that problem for you

1050
00:56:07.920 --> 00:56:09.000
just leaving the town.

1051
00:56:09.059 --> 00:56:09.659
I agree with that.

1052
00:56:09.719 --> 00:56:10.260
Yeah.

1053
00:56:10.320 --> 00:56:14.159
If it had been just about those 2 for that whole episode, except

1054
00:56:14.159 --> 00:56:18.179
for that very beginning, yeah, I think that would have been quite

1055
00:56:18.179 --> 00:56:18.719
interesting.

1056
00:56:18.780 --> 00:56:20.099
Yeah.

1057
00:56:20.159 --> 00:56:23.579
It's hard to do, isn't it, without kind of manufacturing conflict

1058
00:56:23.579 --> 00:56:24.599
between the 2 of them?

1059
00:56:24.659 --> 00:56:31.800
Like, um, but I think people overstate how important conflict is

1060
00:56:31.800 --> 00:56:32.699
to drama, I guess.

1061
00:56:32.760 --> 00:56:36.239
And I do think that what ends up happening is it's the moment

1062
00:56:36.239 --> 00:56:40.739
where she realises who he is, what his job is, and then decides to

1063
00:56:40.739 --> 00:56:41.400
join him.

1064
00:56:41.460 --> 00:56:44.039
I guess that creates the development, doesn't it?

1065
00:56:44.099 --> 00:56:49.559
I mean, I, I, like I would have been sad to lose Mina Anwar at the

1066
00:56:49.559 --> 00:56:53.039
beginning, but I absolutely don't give a shit about, about

1067
00:56:53.039 --> 00:56:54.960
steadfast or praiseworthy at all.

1068
00:56:55.019 --> 00:56:56.219
Very non-characters.

1069
00:56:56.280 --> 00:56:57.300
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1070
00:56:57.360 --> 00:57:01.679
Yeah, yeah. certainly less interesting than Eric and Poppy. for

1071
00:57:01.679 --> 00:57:01.860
sure.

1072
00:57:02.820 --> 00:57:06.780
I think it's why, like, um, you talk about space babies and this

1073
00:57:06.780 --> 00:57:07.079
one.

1074
00:57:07.139 --> 00:57:09.900
I like the beginning, like I like this one with the character

1075
00:57:09.900 --> 00:57:13.139
development, but I like space babies, I think, because just with

1076
00:57:13.139 --> 00:57:17.820
the the topic of society saying you've got to have kids and

1077
00:57:17.820 --> 00:57:20.760
encouraging people to have kids and not giving them a choice of

1078
00:57:20.760 --> 00:57:22.440
whether they and not supporting them.

1079
00:57:22.500 --> 00:57:25.679
Yeah, and then there's all these babies born with no support in

1080
00:57:25.679 --> 00:57:28.800
the, like they just go, oh, it's born now and walk away from it.

1081
00:57:28.860 --> 00:57:29.699
Yeah, yeah.

1082
00:57:29.699 --> 00:57:30.659
I think that's why...

1083
00:57:30.659 --> 00:57:32.880
Yeah, it does, it really does say that, doesn't it?

1084
00:57:32.940 --> 00:57:36.659
I also, I like the idea too that, you know, both of our leads are

1085
00:57:36.659 --> 00:57:38.159
abandoned children.

1086
00:57:38.219 --> 00:57:41.820
And so the 1st adventure they have together by amazing coincidence

1087
00:57:41.820 --> 00:57:44.699
is the spaceship that's run by abandoned babies.

1088
00:57:44.760 --> 00:57:45.719
You know what I mean?

1089
00:57:45.780 --> 00:57:50.460
Which kind of, which like the, it undermines it being too

1090
00:57:50.460 --> 00:57:52.920
overwrought because the abandoned babies are so fun.

1091
00:57:53.039 --> 00:57:53.880
Do you know what I mean?

1092
00:57:53.940 --> 00:57:55.860
Because...

1093
00:57:55.860 --> 00:57:58.139
I'm just impressed with how they did all that, with the animation

1094
00:57:58.139 --> 00:58:01.920
and the hearts roaming around and they remote control.

1095
00:58:02.280 --> 00:58:04.260
Yeah, I think they did.

1096
00:58:04.320 --> 00:58:08.159
They had a lot of the 3D modelled like young kids.

1097
00:58:08.219 --> 00:58:11.760
The kids that were doing the voices were...

1098
00:58:11.760 --> 00:58:13.440
Emotion capture reference, weren't they?

1099
00:58:13.440 --> 00:58:15.480
Emotionally controlled capture.

1100
00:58:16.320 --> 00:58:19.559
And then mapped onto the baby's faces.

1101
00:58:19.619 --> 00:58:20.820
I actually think it works pretty well.

1102
00:58:20.880 --> 00:58:22.980
I mean, it is very uncanny Valley.

1103
00:58:23.039 --> 00:58:23.579
It's supposed to be.

1104
00:58:23.639 --> 00:58:24.960
I mean, because babies are weird.

1105
00:58:25.019 --> 00:58:28.380
That's the other thing about babies is babies are weird and off

1106
00:58:27.840 --> 00:58:31.199
putting and they sh everywhere and they snot.

1107
00:58:31.260 --> 00:58:32.579
They're covered in snot.

1108
00:58:32.639 --> 00:58:34.559
All of that stuff was brought up in the episode.

1109
00:58:34.619 --> 00:58:35.760
Do you know what I mean?

1110
00:58:35.820 --> 00:58:36.960
Just how weirded I've put it in.

1111
00:58:37.019 --> 00:58:38.400
That Doctor Who is puerile.

1112
00:58:38.400 --> 00:58:39.000
It's child.

1113
00:58:39.059 --> 00:58:42.179
One of my favourite moments is Eric, with this little toy sword

1114
00:58:42.179 --> 00:58:44.579
going down to confront the monster, which I just think is

1115
00:58:44.579 --> 00:58:48.059
absolutely adorable because we tell babies what brave boys they

1116
00:58:48.059 --> 00:58:49.619
are or brave girls and stuff.

1117
00:58:49.860 --> 00:58:51.300
You know.

1118
00:58:52.079 --> 00:58:55.559
I'm going to go and have a word with that nasty talking.