WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:55:38 1 00:00:40.560 --> 00:00:49.619 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast made of pure soaring optimism. 2 00:00:49.740 --> 00:00:51.659 And of course, nerds. 3 00:00:51.719 --> 00:00:53.759 I'm Nathan. 4 00:00:53.820 --> 00:00:54.179 James. 5 00:00:54.240 --> 00:00:56.039 I'm BJ with an AY. 6 00:00:56.100 --> 00:01:03.299 And I'm BJ without AY because some little microscopic robots have turned it into 2 radioactive cinders floating about in Spain. 7 00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:18.480 Well, there's platform one, new New York, Starship UK, the Rings of Atkinson, the Planet Desolation, and perhaps even a spaceship orbiting Pacifico del Rio, all perfect places for a 1st date. 8 00:01:18.540 --> 00:01:30.719 But this time, the dates on an unnamed planet in the distant future where modern technology has risen up and killed everyone, which is just the sort of thing that always happens if you don't remember to smile. 9 00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:51.480 So this is one that I hadn't watched for a while, and I don't think I had a very strong opinion of it. 10 00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:54.840 That's the same for you, I think, BJ, is that right? 11 00:01:55.079 --> 00:02:01.379 Yes, well, I went to go watch it yesterday, because it'd been so long since I'd seen it. 12 00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:06.180 And I realised I'd actually gotten halfway through a while back and hadn't gone back to it. 13 00:02:06.239 --> 00:02:10.259 So I found that was a little bit telling of the episode. 14 00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:25.080 But the reason why I thought this would be a good one to chat about is because it was this season that I started coming back to it a bit more and it reminded me more of the David Tennant and Christopher Eccleston kind of era. 15 00:02:25.139 --> 00:02:35.340 So, I mean, it is the 1st time Peter Capaldi's doctor has introduced a new companion to travel in the TARDIS. 16 00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:41.879 You know, he came with Clara and we already had a sort of problematic relationship with Clara. 17 00:02:41.939 --> 00:02:43.979 So he never just got to go and have fun. 18 00:02:44.099 --> 00:02:46.379 You know he never got to kind of show off. 19 00:02:46.439 --> 00:02:49.379 And so it's actually quite fun seeing him in that mode. 20 00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:50.340 And I think you're right. 21 00:02:50.400 --> 00:02:53.400 I think it is a lot like, you know, the tenant era. 22 00:02:53.460 --> 00:02:56.280 He gets to do that a couple of times and so does Smith. 23 00:02:56.340 --> 00:02:57.479 Yeah, yeah. 24 00:02:57.539 --> 00:03:09.960 I definitely enjoyed the banter between the doctor and Bill being kind of like a combination between Rose and Donna. 25 00:03:10.020 --> 00:03:10.680 Yeah. 26 00:03:10.680 --> 00:03:23.879 I just enjoyed her naïveness of it and just questioning and asking silly little questions and sort of giving him a little dig every now and then about it all, which is very kind of donner-ish in that sense. 27 00:03:23.939 --> 00:03:31.319 She really does a great job of kind of undermining him and puncturing him and asking questions that haven't occurred to any other companion. 28 00:03:31.379 --> 00:03:41.580 And we saw that last week and we saw it in that promotional video friend from the future, which we thought last week was fairly terrible. 29 00:03:41.639 --> 00:03:46.620 But it is the thing that Bill does, I think, more than anyone else. 30 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:50.879 She's the one who realises that the seats are too far away from the console. 31 00:03:50.939 --> 00:03:55.860 She's the one who kind of threatens to steal a TARS off the doctor and so on. 32 00:03:55.979 --> 00:04:07.439 Yeah, so she's more the everyday person, again, trying to bring the people that were watching it back in the tenant era back into the fold of the casual viewer. 33 00:04:07.500 --> 00:04:09.120 Yeah, I think that's right. 34 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:19.680 She's also arguably the 1st companion, since Martha, to not be or spoiler alert, end up as a complex space-time event. 35 00:04:19.740 --> 00:04:22.139 Well-ish.ish. 36 00:04:22.199 --> 00:04:22.500 Yeah. 37 00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:23.160 Yeah. 38 00:04:25.019 --> 00:04:29.279 So this is a really oddly structured episode. 39 00:04:29.339 --> 00:04:36.540 And the reason is that we get our 1st actual other person around about 30 minutes in. 40 00:04:36.600 --> 00:04:46.379 And so we get what is, you know, slightly longer, I think, than the 1st episode of, say, arc in space, where it is just the 2 regulars. 41 00:04:46.439 --> 00:04:49.620 We've got a brief cameo from Nandol, but he's a regular two. 42 00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:52.139 We get them just wandering around. 43 00:04:52.199 --> 00:04:54.779 How do we think that works? 44 00:04:55.259 --> 00:04:57.060 I really like it. 45 00:04:57.120 --> 00:05:07.199 You know, the characters that die before the opening title sequence are completely unconnected to our regulars, so they have no knowledge of them. 46 00:05:07.259 --> 00:05:19.740 They are just introduced fresh into this world, not knowing what's going on, and they have to solve the mystery, which is, it's sort of unfolds and they keep making assumptions based on the information they have and not quite getting it right. 47 00:05:19.800 --> 00:05:30.480 And then you can see the doctor working it out in his head and realising he has to get Bill the hell out of there because he, you know, like her life is in danger. 48 00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:33.060 Look, I really enjoyed this episode. 49 00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:36.899 I only had watched it twice on original broadcast. 50 00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:46.019 I watched it once and then I watched it about a week later, and I hadn't gone back to it since, but I thought, oh, you know, it was flawed, but, you know, it had some good ideas. 51 00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:51.120 When I went and rewatched it a few weeks ago. really, really enjoyed it. 52 00:05:51.180 --> 00:05:54.899 I thought, I mean, I liked in the Forest of the Night, flawed though it is. 53 00:05:54.959 --> 00:05:55.439 I do too. 54 00:05:55.500 --> 00:05:57.779 I think this is a better, a better script from him. 55 00:05:57.779 --> 00:06:08.100 And it does some really interesting things with technology and, and, you know, like ideas. 56 00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:31.379 We've gone back to time and time again in the show, say, the evacuation of the earth because of the solar flares, but does it in a way which doesn't detract from those earlier stories and actually kind of expands on them and makes it part of a bigger, a bigger universe without really relying too much on, on that previous continuity. 57 00:06:31.439 --> 00:06:33.480 I really enjoy the story. 58 00:06:33.660 --> 00:06:38.100 Yeah, I've had take a drink, listener. 59 00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:39.660 I've had the Todd experience of this one. 60 00:06:39.720 --> 00:06:44.639 Um, which is I really didn't think much of it when I 1st watched it. 61 00:06:44.699 --> 00:06:59.040 I have the weird position where this is by far the season of Capaldi, I remember the most fondly, but if I look at my spreadsheet of scores, the average is actually the lowest score out of the 3 series. 62 00:06:59.100 --> 00:07:06.420 And I'm thinking because I haven't seen this season since original broadcast at all at all. 63 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:16.139 So I'm thinking maybe some of my lower scores, such as for this, knock knock, lie of the land and eaters of light may go up as I'm watching this. 64 00:07:16.199 --> 00:07:18.480 And certainly it went up this time. 65 00:07:18.540 --> 00:07:23.220 I loved the doctor and Bill. exploring by themselves. 66 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:35.040 I remember at the time, I feel like a lot of people were very disappointed that Mina Anwar was in it so little at the beginning, she's good thing, the one saying, just big smile. 67 00:07:35.100 --> 00:07:37.620 Mother's dead, you know, it's fine. 68 00:07:37.980 --> 00:07:44.459 And of course, we know her from the Sarah Jane adventures and previously before that, the thin blue line. 69 00:07:44.519 --> 00:07:51.060 There was a lot of her cutout, but watching it again now, it's like, no, you want that to be sure and punchy and shocking. 70 00:07:51.180 --> 00:07:56.819 And also, if they kept in everything, that pre-titles would have been about 7 or 8 minutes. 71 00:07:56.879 --> 00:08:00.180 It's actually a slightly odd pre-titles, isn't it? 72 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:03.180 Because it's got an important role in the actual ongoing thing. 73 00:08:03.240 --> 00:08:08.819 We need to see Nardol and we need to see the doctor kind of escaping from Nardol. 74 00:08:08.879 --> 00:08:15.420 I mean, this is laying out the new premise for Beale, who has some idea of the premise because she's known the doctor for over a year at this point. 75 00:08:15.480 --> 00:08:19.560 And then we go to the planet, to the colony. 76 00:08:19.620 --> 00:08:34.440 And I actually tweeted Mina Anwar after this episode, just to say how great I thought she was, because she has to be kind of smiling, but she has to be terrified and grief stricken all at the same time, and she's so good. 77 00:08:34.440 --> 00:08:37.080 Like, that's a really great scene. 78 00:08:37.139 --> 00:08:41.879 It's really very strange and kind of weird, which is kind of what we're going for. 79 00:08:41.940 --> 00:08:46.320 But I think she's wonderful and I think that's one of the best bits of it. 80 00:08:46.379 --> 00:08:47.879 Yeah, I agree. 81 00:08:47.940 --> 00:08:51.480 I think the 1st half of the episode's great. 82 00:08:51.539 --> 00:08:52.620 I love it. 83 00:08:52.679 --> 00:09:01.919 I love that we get to learn more about Bill and the doctor's relationship and how it's going to be moving forward right at the start and the intro to the show. 84 00:09:01.980 --> 00:09:04.259 I think it was a good strong start for sure. 85 00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:07.500 I think it's just once they get onto the ship. 86 00:09:07.559 --> 00:09:11.940 It sort of petered out a little bit for me and then when we get to the end, we'll talk about that. 87 00:09:12.539 --> 00:09:17.220 Yeah, yeah, I feel I feel sort of similar way, I think. 88 00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:21.659 I think a huge role is played by the incredible location work. 89 00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:24.600 Like the, just the extraordinary location work. 90 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:33.059 And I think that if we'd been wandering around a small studio in BBC television centre one, It would have been nowhere near as interesting. 91 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:34.379 This is television. 92 00:09:34.440 --> 00:09:35.399 It's got to be visual. 93 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:40.379 So this is the city of arts and sciences in Valencia in Spain. 94 00:09:40.440 --> 00:09:42.539 It's in the middle of Valencia. 95 00:09:42.600 --> 00:09:54.419 It's in the middle of a city and you can see, see it on Google Earth and stuff surrounded by other buildings, but they've taken it out, put it in the middle of this barley field or cornfield. from somewhere in England. 96 00:09:54.480 --> 00:09:55.259 Yes, yeah. 97 00:09:55.320 --> 00:09:58.500 Seamlessly, like just incredibly well. 98 00:09:58.559 --> 00:10:03.179 Like the way that they've constructed the location just looks amazing. 99 00:10:03.240 --> 00:10:15.059 The scene where the doctor and people go back to the TARDIS, and you've got the parts of the field that still have their tracks in it from them leaving the TARDIS, with the building out of focus in the background. 100 00:10:15.179 --> 00:10:17.759 Like it just looks stunningly great. 101 00:10:17.820 --> 00:10:23.519 And it's the sort of thing that Doctor Who has sort of done before a bit. 102 00:10:23.580 --> 00:10:30.480 I'm thinking the end of the gangers 2 parter has a modern building, playing a space building. 103 00:10:30.539 --> 00:10:32.940 Can anyone think of anything else where this has been done? 104 00:10:33.000 --> 00:10:34.320 I don't think it's been done at this scale. 105 00:10:34.379 --> 00:10:37.019 No, usually, like, if it's being done. 106 00:10:37.080 --> 00:10:40.200 It's being done with a model in the background rather than a genuine location. 107 00:10:40.259 --> 00:10:40.919 Yeah. 108 00:10:40.980 --> 00:10:42.000 Yeah. 109 00:10:42.059 --> 00:10:45.600 They also go back to Uskmouth Power Station. 110 00:10:45.899 --> 00:10:48.240 Is that the spaceship? 111 00:10:48.299 --> 00:10:49.980 I thought that's what you were referring to. 112 00:10:49.980 --> 00:10:51.059 The paper mill. 113 00:10:53.340 --> 00:10:54.960 That's right. 114 00:10:55.019 --> 00:11:05.100 Yeah, I believe I believe the last time Doctor Who was here was possibly for either Sleep No More or the Under Lake, before the flood, two-part, I think it was sleep no more. 115 00:11:05.159 --> 00:11:18.840 And Jenna Coleman tells his story of Capaldi going wandering off when he's not needed for a shot and coming back completely soaked because he found a big red button that said, do not press, and he pressed it happened to be an emergency anti-chemical burn shower. 116 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:21.899 So she was just plastered with water. 117 00:11:21.960 --> 00:11:24.000 Now, he got in real trouble, didn't he? 118 00:11:24.059 --> 00:11:26.159 He did get in real good costume and stuff. 119 00:11:26.340 --> 00:11:31.019 So he was, well, no, he was just cosplaying that scene at the beginning of New Earth. 120 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:31.860 Could be that. 121 00:11:31.980 --> 00:11:33.240 Could definitely be that. 122 00:11:33.299 --> 00:11:35.759 But yeah, it's astonishingly beautiful. 123 00:11:35.820 --> 00:11:47.279 And as a dedicated nerd, I was checking the reflections in all of the windows to make sure that there weren't Spanish streets or a restaurant visible opposite or anything like that and they really nailed it. 124 00:11:47.340 --> 00:11:50.399 It just looks so incredibly good. 125 00:11:59.460 --> 00:12:13.919 Can we talk a little bit about the setting, because James said, and I agree with him, that there's some attempt, I think, to tie this into the beast below an arc in space and make it the same space catastrophe that causes people to leave Earth. 126 00:12:13.980 --> 00:12:35.399 But that does read very much like it's been added later to the script because we do talk in terms of it being the last group of human beings alive, and it looks like they left the earth because some catastrophic political problem occurred. 127 00:12:35.580 --> 00:12:46.799 It's actually one thing I wanted to ask you guys about because um, the doctor does comment that um, he's come across the last of the human ships a few times in his journey. 128 00:12:46.860 --> 00:12:51.240 So I was wondering if there were episodes about that at some point. 129 00:12:51.240 --> 00:13:05.159 I don't know if you remember, but Matt Smith's 2nd episode is called The Beast Below, and it involves them coming across Starship UK, which is a big spaceship that contains sort of a lot of kitschy English memorabilia and stuff. 130 00:13:05.220 --> 00:13:08.519 Well, I mean, technically it's a bit of space rock on the back of a whale. 131 00:13:08.580 --> 00:13:10.320 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 132 00:13:10.379 --> 00:13:10.740 Yeah. 133 00:13:10.740 --> 00:13:13.500 And in both of in both of those instances. 134 00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:15.779 And I think it is Stephen Moffat doing this. 135 00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:19.259 Stephen Moffatt inserts references to Scottish independence. 136 00:13:19.320 --> 00:13:20.340 Yes. 137 00:13:20.340 --> 00:13:21.120 Dashing. 138 00:13:21.179 --> 00:13:32.220 Scotland wanted their own starship in The Beast Below and the doctor says here that there's loads of new Scotland's around the place and they're all declaring independence from any other planet they've landed on. 139 00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:38.519 You know, we do we do get Rose asking the questions that no one else has asked before. 140 00:13:38.580 --> 00:13:41.820 And obviously she comments on the doctor's accent. 141 00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:45.240 And so we get Bill doing the same thing here. 142 00:13:45.299 --> 00:13:47.700 And she says, why are you Scottish? 143 00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:52.200 And he says, I'm not Scottish, I'm cross, which is definitely Moffat, I think. 144 00:13:52.259 --> 00:13:55.740 I don't think Frank Cottrel Boyce could say that without being cancelled. 145 00:13:55.799 --> 00:13:59.039 So Moffat gets to insert that line in. 146 00:13:59.100 --> 00:14:05.639 So I think Moffatt does do that thing that kind of inserts it into the wider universe for want of a better word. 147 00:14:05.700 --> 00:14:09.360 But I don't think frank cultural voice. aware enough to do that. 148 00:14:09.419 --> 00:14:13.860 And I think he wants to tell the story of the last humans arriving. 149 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:15.960 And so you get that wonderful moment. 150 00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:17.879 And again, it's sort of 27 minutes in. 151 00:14:17.940 --> 00:14:24.059 It's quite late where Bill comes across the dead body of the old lady of sort of patient 0 essentially. 152 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:29.580 And the book, the big history book, which is so great, isn't it? 153 00:14:29.639 --> 00:14:31.919 And you open it up and there's a screen. 154 00:14:31.980 --> 00:14:32.700 The big history iPad. 155 00:14:32.759 --> 00:14:35.279 Yeah, I'm getting missed vibes from it. 156 00:14:35.700 --> 00:14:38.519 And that does tell a different story. 157 00:14:38.580 --> 00:14:43.440 It doesn't seem to be solar flares or some kind of exogenous space disaster. 158 00:14:43.500 --> 00:14:47.220 It just seems to be things have got very terrible on earth. 159 00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:54.779 And again, you know, we're told it's the 1st earth colony or something like that, but then we're told it's 1000s of years in the future. 160 00:14:54.840 --> 00:15:00.840 So it doesn't really fit in with anything that we know about the history of Earth, but I don't care. 161 00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:03.960 And I think Doctor Who should do that more often. 162 00:15:04.019 --> 00:15:10.919 Just contradict people. contradict, get in and contradict some TARDIS Wakia entries, I think. 163 00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:19.440 I mean, yeah, it definitely doesn't tie in with, say, the arc or Frontios, let's say. 164 00:15:19.500 --> 00:15:22.019 It's not that human evacuation. 165 00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:28.320 But I think it is much closer to the beast below the arc in space in particular. 166 00:15:28.379 --> 00:15:37.679 If we're, say, 1000s of years in the future, say, around the year 6000, I think in the arcade space, Earth is evacuated sometime after the 30th century. 167 00:15:37.740 --> 00:15:40.139 So that kind of fits there. 168 00:15:40.200 --> 00:15:42.179 But again, it doesn't matter. 169 00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:52.799 I think there's enough clues for people who read Lance Parkin's history of the universe every one or 2 years, which is me, to fit it in, but it doesn't rely on that. 170 00:15:52.860 --> 00:16:04.019 You know, we're all familiar with the concept of colonisation and we're familiar with the concept that the earth may become an inhabitable, you know, and Frank Cottero Boyce has touched on that before in the forest of the night. 171 00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:04.860 Yeah. 172 00:16:04.860 --> 00:16:07.980 And I think this one is rather more successful. 173 00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:16.200 I have my problems with that story, but I feel like this historic cultural voice going, okay, no, I'm going to do proper space opera, but talking about some of the same themes. 174 00:16:16.500 --> 00:16:23.519 Well, isn't that the whole point, like with Doctor Who, the past and present never really exists in a same status. 175 00:16:23.580 --> 00:16:25.200 It's always changing, you know? 176 00:16:25.259 --> 00:16:34.620 Um, so it's good that they're exploring different ways of telling the same stories that are similar because that's going to happen. 177 00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:39.779 If it's always changing, there's always going to be similar patterns happening and but different stories to tell of that. 178 00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:41.460 Yeah, I think so too. 179 00:16:41.580 --> 00:16:44.100 I think that's exactly how it should be. 180 00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:48.779 And there is a sort of butterfly collecting instinct that fanboys have. 181 00:16:48.779 --> 00:16:55.740 And they want to pin down, you know, exactly what's happening and where and stuff. 182 00:16:55.799 --> 00:16:58.559 And I think Moffatt throws them a bone. 183 00:16:58.620 --> 00:17:07.920 I'm assuming that these are Moffatt's edits to Cultural Boys' script, but that's not really what the story's about, what the episode's about. 184 00:17:07.980 --> 00:17:08.700 Yeah. 185 00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:21.180 And, you know, like, in a couple of years time, Chris Chibnall will ignore this dystopian future of humanity for his own one, and that's exactly the show functioning as it should, I think. 186 00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:42.960 One of my favourite concepts in this episode is the idea of the emotional contagion of grief. 187 00:17:43.740 --> 00:18:26.519 I don't know whether it's at the same time as this or slightly before or after, but Facebook got in a bit of trouble for doing widespread experiments on their uses by promoting certain posts to the top of feeds in a whole range of people's Facebook feeds and seeing how the emotions that they were, I believe they were negative emotions, which is incredibly problematic. how those posts affected the friends in your friends list when they read those posts and how they how that emotional contagion spread. 188 00:18:26.579 --> 00:18:33.059 And it's, um, I mean, that's, that's got a lot of uh, um, ethical issues. 189 00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:51.960 But in this episode, like it's a really interesting concept to take that and show how it spread like a plague and how these robots who don't quite understand human emotions deal with that by killing everybody. 190 00:18:52.079 --> 00:19:07.319 So, in fact, the spread of the, those deaths is explicitly linked to the idea of virality, which is obviously an idea that comes from viruses originally, but does actually refer to things spreading online. 191 00:19:07.380 --> 00:19:20.519 And, you know, like even media things, I think we've got the right wing entertainment industry, which is rendering all of our grandparents kind of unfit for human companionship. 192 00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:39.960 But here I think, and there is something that I want to come to later is that this episode has a real suspicion of technology and in particular the kind of technology that teenagers or young people use, we will get there. 193 00:19:40.019 --> 00:19:45.720 But I also think that that scene where we discover the virality of it. 194 00:19:45.779 --> 00:19:48.000 And we, that's what we'd seen, isn't it? 195 00:19:48.059 --> 00:20:03.720 That's what that opening scene with Mina Anwar is telling us that the grief is catching, uh, because she tells, she's just speech with, with, you know, mum is dead, and her friend's sunshine is also dead. 196 00:20:03.779 --> 00:20:06.480 The whole, whole, all about the people are dead. 197 00:20:06.539 --> 00:20:08.519 Smile, you know. 198 00:20:08.519 --> 00:20:12.420 That emotional contagion study was 2014. 199 00:20:12.660 --> 00:20:16.019 So it could have it could have influenced this episode. 200 00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:35.940 And what's interesting about Frank Cultural Boyce is he went on a conference which was designed to bring together authors of science fiction with scientists to capitalise on current scientific ideas, put them in science fiction, and that's actually where the Vardi get their name from. 201 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:46.259 He met a professor, Dr. Andrew Vardi, who is an associate professor working in swarm robotics at a university in Canada. 202 00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:54.420 And after he wrote the script, he emailed Dr. Vardi and said, I've named the swarms of robots after you and Dr. Vardi was over the moon with that. 203 00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:01.799 We just never hear the same story about Dr. Dalek, do we? 204 00:21:02.700 --> 00:21:04.980 Salvador to his mates. 205 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:11.759 But yeah, what you're saying there about emotional contagion, James, of the science behind it. 206 00:21:11.819 --> 00:21:19.740 Frank Cottrell boys actually viewed emoji very favourably, he thought this is an evolution of language. 207 00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:27.839 This is a new idea coming about, and you can actually convey emotion more easily and readily than you can with text alone. 208 00:21:27.900 --> 00:21:37.200 Whereas Stephen Moffatt was baffled by emoji and said, I never used them, but Jenna would use them in every text and I didn't know what was going on. 209 00:21:37.259 --> 00:21:43.019 And you get those 2 voices in the program, you get Bill going, it speaks emoji. 210 00:21:43.079 --> 00:21:49.380 This is amazing, and you get the doctor saying, of course, that's what survives for 1000s of... 211 00:21:49.619 --> 00:21:56.579 What I find interesting is the doctor and Bill's emotional states influence each other as well. 212 00:21:56.640 --> 00:21:57.599 Yeah. 213 00:21:57.660 --> 00:22:02.640 And in a way, Bill's enthusiasm actually tempers the doctor's fear. 214 00:22:02.700 --> 00:22:04.619 Like when he's exploring the city by himself. 215 00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:09.420 He's really afraid, but as soon as Bill comes after him, he's all laughter and smiles and jokes again. 216 00:22:09.779 --> 00:22:20.519 There's also that wonderful bit which calls back to her 1st episode, which is when she's confused or doesn't understand something she smiles. 217 00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:32.940 And there's a moment where she's bemused by something about the Vardis and the emoji bots, and she smiles because she doesn't understand, and the emoticon her back lights up with a little smile. 218 00:22:33.059 --> 00:22:38.940 It's the bit, isn't it, just before she says, you are such a great tutor, which I just think is wonderful. 219 00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:40.140 It's so good. 220 00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:41.759 It's one of my favourite moments. 221 00:22:41.819 --> 00:22:52.740 And that thing that Moffatt hits on for her 1st episode is the thing that the doctor notices, that she smiles when she comes across something she doesn't understand and that's what attracts him to her. 222 00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:54.240 Seeing it there. 223 00:22:54.299 --> 00:22:55.259 And it's wonderful. 224 00:22:55.319 --> 00:22:57.240 Like, like, Pearl's face just lights up. 225 00:22:57.299 --> 00:22:57.960 It's terrific. 226 00:22:58.019 --> 00:22:59.339 Yeah, definitely. 227 00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:15.059 I love the energy she brings with that, the excitement of exploring new things, and it kind of makes you feel like you're exploring it for the 1st time again, because you guys have talked about having to introduce the TARDIS again and all of that in other episodes of beginning of seasons and this is cute. 228 00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:28.140 This feels different and she's excited and asks not 2 clueless questions so that she's completely stupid, but just fun in it and wanting to know and getting excited and yeah, happy to be there. 229 00:23:28.200 --> 00:23:29.039 Yeah. 230 00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:33.180 The show hadn't had this for a long time. 231 00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:39.059 Jenna is introduced in 2012 initially, isn't she? 232 00:23:39.180 --> 00:23:45.660 And then properly introduces the new companion the next year, leading into the 50th. 233 00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:48.539 This is 4 years later. 234 00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:55.980 And this is the 1st time we get a new jumping on point with a new audience identification figure. 235 00:23:56.039 --> 00:24:01.920 Like, I think, you know, you just jump into Doctor Who with whatever's on when you start watching it. 236 00:24:01.980 --> 00:24:10.680 I think that it's a show that doesn't really need a jumping on point because the premise is so thin, not thin, but it's not complicated. 237 00:24:10.859 --> 00:24:22.980 But I do think that there is something about that regular thing of having a new person in and introducing them to the show and seeing their reaction, which really does lift the show. 238 00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:34.799 And you remember when Russell 1st started it back in 2005, he had no idea that he'd be saying goodbye to the doctor at the end of that 1st year and then goodbye to Billy at the end of the following year. 239 00:24:34.859 --> 00:24:40.079 This could have just been the show starring Christopher Eccleston and Billy Piper for years and then it stops. 240 00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:43.440 And he says, you know, we're not going to introduce the idea of regeneration. 241 00:24:43.500 --> 00:24:46.140 We're not going to do any of that until we have to. 242 00:24:46.259 --> 00:24:54.720 But it turns out, you know, he changes cast every year that he does the show and it works really well. 243 00:24:54.779 --> 00:24:56.160 It's a really good thing. 244 00:24:56.220 --> 00:24:58.859 And we have missed that with Moffer. 245 00:24:58.920 --> 00:25:02.339 You know, we had 3 years of Rory and Amy. 246 00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:09.599 We had quite a bit of Jenna, for whom the relationship with a doctor becomes an addiction or a problem. 247 00:25:09.660 --> 00:25:11.160 It's problematized in some ways. 248 00:25:11.220 --> 00:25:20.700 And so having this doctor just uncomplicatedly decide to take his new friend off into space, he's showing off to her. 249 00:25:20.700 --> 00:25:23.460 You know how he tries to impress her by saying, oh, I stole it. 250 00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:27.180 I'm kind of cool. stole it from you. 251 00:25:27.240 --> 00:25:29.519 Like all of that works so well. 252 00:25:29.579 --> 00:25:30.599 It's just tremendous. 253 00:25:30.660 --> 00:25:33.240 I think it's really, really good, it lifts the show in a great way. 254 00:25:33.299 --> 00:25:38.819 Yeah, my sister, she tapped out when Kapati came on board. 255 00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:41.759 She battled her way through the Matt Smith. 256 00:25:41.819 --> 00:25:44.700 Her doctors, David Tennant, and that writing. 257 00:25:44.700 --> 00:25:52.319 And I told her to get back into it from this season because it was more what she was used to. 258 00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:54.420 And so, and she really enjoyed it. 259 00:25:54.480 --> 00:26:06.299 Yeah, I think that this season is that, and it is, we talked a little bit about it last time, because Moffatt comes back for the final season, but he wasn't expecting to do it, and so everything's sort of tied up. 260 00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:07.920 There's nothing much up in the air. 261 00:26:07.980 --> 00:26:10.619 He knows he's only doing it for one year. 262 00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:13.859 And so he doesn't create a big complex puzzle box or anything like that. 263 00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:24.720 He just tells Doctor Who stories for a year with a companion who's just a normal person rather than a strange, you know, as Brendan said, I think, a complex space-time event. 264 00:26:24.779 --> 00:26:26.220 She's just a person. 265 00:26:26.339 --> 00:26:28.140 And it works terrifically well. 266 00:26:28.200 --> 00:26:30.240 It's actually a real breath of fresh air, I think. 267 00:26:30.299 --> 00:26:31.200 Yeah, agree. 268 00:26:37.859 --> 00:26:54.660 So, one of the problems I had with Frank Cottrell Boyce last time was, and it's the same problem, I think, or one of the same problems that Brendan has, was the children are overmedicated these days and should consider stopping taking their medication. 269 00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:59.880 And that seems like a particularly old man sort of point to make. 270 00:26:59.880 --> 00:27:31.559 And I have to say that I think that there is suspicion of young people and their technology, and I'm not entirely sure that it is all from Moffat, remember the line that the doctor says, where emojis have come and it's the utopia of vacuous teens, you know, we communicate via texting and emojis and that's how young people communicate and that's a problem. 271 00:27:31.619 --> 00:27:44.640 And I also think part of the thing, part of the reason why I don't think anyone's really on board with emoji as a way of communication is that the emoji bots emoji game is really bad. 272 00:27:44.700 --> 00:27:46.799 Like they're really bad in it. 273 00:27:47.700 --> 00:27:59.279 There are things that aren't emojis. like they look kind of a bit crap, you know, compared to actual emojis and and I don't know. 274 00:27:59.339 --> 00:28:03.059 Like, there just seems to me to be this thing. 275 00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:07.619 Like, like, Bill decides to take the photo with her phone. 276 00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:08.700 Do you know what I mean? 277 00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:10.140 We make a big thing about that. 278 00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:19.200 And it's kind of like we all take photos of documents and things that we want to see and we all do it all the time and why does it take bills so long and why is that a bill thing? 279 00:28:19.259 --> 00:28:26.339 You know, young people take photos on their phones and, and, you know, Bill's response to having the watch me call it. 280 00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:27.480 I think the doctor calls it. 281 00:28:27.539 --> 00:28:28.740 Does he call it a thingam bomb? 282 00:28:28.799 --> 00:28:30.359 Yeah, think about the thing about... 283 00:28:30.420 --> 00:28:33.660 Yeah, where the ear upgrade thing, which does get a role. 284 00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:41.519 Her response to that is sort of like a bit ridiculous, you know, like, oh, I'll never have to recharge my phone again. 285 00:28:41.579 --> 00:28:45.000 My ear's just been invaded by some strange technology. 286 00:28:45.059 --> 00:28:46.140 I have no control over. 287 00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:47.759 I don't have to charge my phone. 288 00:28:47.819 --> 00:28:48.720 Yeah, yeah. 289 00:28:48.779 --> 00:28:52.380 And I kind of think that's a bit of a shame. 290 00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:54.180 Doctor Who, we've said before. 291 00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:58.559 It's not always, you know, up to the moment with the latest trends and stuff. 292 00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:03.779 And I mean, it's doing an emoji episode years after we've all been using them for a long time. 293 00:29:04.500 --> 00:29:08.339 Yeah, this strange thing that teenagers are suddenly into. 294 00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:15.119 And it seems to do a bad job of actually giving us a sense of what it is and how it works. 295 00:29:15.180 --> 00:29:27.480 My favourite example of the failure of those emojis is the fact that they think the pound's still going to exist. in what 10,000 years time. 296 00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:32.519 But I mean, there is that emoji with the dollar, isn't there? 297 00:29:32.579 --> 00:29:34.500 Is it like, is it money sort of? 298 00:29:34.500 --> 00:29:35.759 No, it's a pound. 299 00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:38.039 But I mean, in real life, you know. 300 00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:38.640 Oh, yeah. 301 00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:40.440 Yeah, with the tongue out, yeah. 302 00:29:40.500 --> 00:29:45.660 I just find it creepy that the robot's got 3 mouths when it does the smiley emoji. 303 00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:49.619 It's got 3 mouths and it's like, it just doesn't quite... 304 00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:52.440 No, it's like, I think it's kind of crap. 305 00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:57.059 And I'm not super sold on the actual physical robots themselves. 306 00:29:57.180 --> 00:30:01.619 They've got a cute pot belly and stuff like that, which I guess is a thing. 307 00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:02.759 I don't know. 308 00:30:02.819 --> 00:30:03.539 I don't know. 309 00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:08.940 They're a bit Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy Disney movie, Marvin. 310 00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:13.259 Well, I think that Marvin is great, actually, I have to say, that Marvin is pretty good. 311 00:30:13.319 --> 00:30:17.339 I don't think it's anywhere near as good as that But on a BBC budget. that's right. 312 00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:25.380 Yeah, we do have Quran Shah as the as the main emoji bot who had previously appeared as the creature in listen. 313 00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:31.740 And much like his contemporary, Deep Roy, has a long history. 314 00:30:31.799 --> 00:30:33.480 He, you know, he's a little person. 315 00:30:33.539 --> 00:30:39.539 He has a long history of playing the same kind of roles that say Deep Roy and Warwick Davis have played in the past. 316 00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:43.259 Like he was an e-wok. you know, all those sorts of roles you might expect. 317 00:30:43.380 --> 00:30:45.420 I actually quite like the robot designs. 318 00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:54.960 I feel like they're sort of a rundown version of the handbots from the girl who waited, which I loved and a little bit going right back. 319 00:30:55.019 --> 00:31:04.859 They're a little bit of a smaller version of the IMC robots from Colony in space, but you know, obviously you don't have to fit 3 people inside it, so it doesn't have to take up half the studio. 320 00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:07.680 The cleaners from Paradise Towers. 321 00:31:07.740 --> 00:31:09.180 I'm exactly... 322 00:31:09.240 --> 00:31:10.079 Right. 323 00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:12.720 You know, all these small robots. 324 00:31:12.779 --> 00:31:13.259 Yeah. 325 00:31:13.319 --> 00:31:21.660 And I think, you know, part of the thing of making them sort of 3.5, 4 foot tall is we automatically think they're on threatening. 326 00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:22.319 Yeah. 327 00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:25.200 And the doctor and Bill kind of go along with that as well. 328 00:31:25.259 --> 00:31:30.420 Bill adores the robot, but we've already seen what happened in the pre-titles. 329 00:31:31.259 --> 00:31:34.500 So is this basically episode 6 of the Chase? 330 00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:39.720 So that is actually pretty great. 331 00:31:39.779 --> 00:31:44.819 And there's no way that Cultural Boys is aware of episode 6 of the chase, although I may well be wrong. 332 00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:49.200 But the idea that you send the robots ahead to build the colony for you. 333 00:31:49.259 --> 00:31:54.420 I do think that, I don't know, maybe they're commoditized. 334 00:31:54.480 --> 00:32:04.440 Maybe you can just churn out 1000000000s of nanobots in one go because I think building a massive giant building out of them seems to be kind of excessive. 335 00:32:04.500 --> 00:32:06.779 I watched Waters of Mars recently. 336 00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:12.720 And I spent a lot of time thinking, how did they build this massive base for all of these people? 337 00:32:12.779 --> 00:32:23.220 They also have robots that made the base as well, but it's a line that's just papering over something that's clearly just terribly ridiculous. 338 00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:28.920 So I don't quite know why we decided to make the thing out of the emoji bots. 339 00:32:28.980 --> 00:32:31.559 I guess there's some good visuals that come out. 340 00:32:31.619 --> 00:32:32.400 Dramatic tension. 341 00:32:32.460 --> 00:32:33.000 Yeah. 342 00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:35.279 They could jump on you at any moment from any wall. 343 00:32:35.339 --> 00:32:42.839 I mean, right at the beginning, the ones that attack Kesia. you know, detach themselves from a sort of pile on the roof and they'd land on her. 344 00:32:42.900 --> 00:32:43.740 So I guess there's that. 345 00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:44.460 Yeah. 346 00:32:44.460 --> 00:32:57.660 It's one of the ideas that Frank Cottro boys picked up from that scientific conference he went to and talking to Dr. Vardi and Dr. Vardi said, we'd send robots 1st and nano robots or something already well established in the new season of Doctor Who. 347 00:32:57.720 --> 00:33:00.599 And there is also the concept, and I can't remember who came up with it. 348 00:33:00.660 --> 00:33:18.839 But the concept of gray goo and the danger of making nanobots that can say break down at carbon into its constituents and reform it into something else is that eventually they'll start breaking down the planet to put it into something more efficient and you just end up with this sphere of gray goo. 349 00:33:18.900 --> 00:33:26.279 And so that was another idea that sort of informed him of, okay, we're sending robots to colonise this planet, but it's Doctor Who. 350 00:33:26.339 --> 00:33:27.420 So what's going to go wrong? 351 00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:28.980 Yeah. 352 00:33:29.099 --> 00:33:42.359 I mean, Doctor Who has a history mostly in the new series of technology going wrong in a way that is just entirely preposterous and completely designed to produce sort of great visuals. 353 00:33:42.420 --> 00:34:03.839 And that's right from the beginning where people's faces are turning into gas masks and stuff like that in the empty child, which is, again, nanopots go crazy, misread what human beings need by, you know, analysing little Jamie's body or something and then going viral and sort of creating this effect everywhere. 354 00:34:03.900 --> 00:34:09.059 And the show has helped itself to this quite a lot in the intervening period. 355 00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:21.179 And this is the 2nd episode in a row, in fact, where we've had technology getting out of hand, you know, wild future technology getting out of hand and affecting people and stuff and being the main thing. 356 00:34:21.239 --> 00:34:22.619 And I think that's fine. 357 00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:24.179 That's the thing that Doctor Who could do. 358 00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:29.039 And if it allows the sort of visuals that we get in this episode, then I'm forward, I think. 359 00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:44.460 I think that we should talk about what happens at the end. 360 00:34:44.519 --> 00:35:01.739 So at 30 minutes, we meet praiseworthy, who is the little kid, and then soon after that, we meet steadfast, who's the chief medic, and chief med tech, med tech, chief med tech, quiet, right. 361 00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:05.940 That's got to be a Moffat thing taken from the ark in space, doesn't it? 362 00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:16.320 And the thing that you said before, James, where the doctor's theorising all the way through about what's happening here, but getting it wrong and discovering that there isn't a colony ship on its way. 363 00:35:16.380 --> 00:35:17.280 It's already here. 364 00:35:17.699 --> 00:35:23.940 I have to say that my opinion was always that this is the pier where it all falls to pieces. 365 00:35:24.780 --> 00:35:27.780 Yeah, I agree with that. 366 00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:34.079 The storyline gets very thin from that point onwards, like to the point at one point. 367 00:35:34.139 --> 00:35:36.000 I rewound and went, did I miss something? 368 00:35:36.059 --> 00:35:37.199 Like right at the end. 369 00:35:38.340 --> 00:35:40.320 I mean, it makes sense. 370 00:35:40.380 --> 00:35:42.179 He worked out. 371 00:35:42.300 --> 00:35:54.300 The majority of it that the ships were coming, so we sets off the explosion without checking, I don't know, like just a few points in the plot that were very amiss. 372 00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:56.219 Where's his due diligence? 373 00:35:57.300 --> 00:35:58.619 Study before he does that. 374 00:35:58.679 --> 00:36:03.000 Well, actually, I think before we properly launching to how terrible that ending is. 375 00:36:03.059 --> 00:36:12.659 I have to say that there is a moment there, which I think is really good, but where Bill gets to realise that the doctor's not just the tutor, but that he is the helpline. 376 00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:17.340 Yes, that's right, that he's advice and assistance available immediately. 377 00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:18.659 You know, it's on the box. 378 00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:21.119 It does what it says on the tin. 379 00:36:21.179 --> 00:36:22.920 And that's a great moment, I think. 380 00:36:22.980 --> 00:36:27.780 And even the doctor's line where I've got a childish impulse to go and blow it up. 381 00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:29.519 It is pretty awesome. 382 00:36:29.579 --> 00:36:31.860 That is pretty great. 383 00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:36.840 And obviously he does get to reflect for a 2nd that he could have blown up everyone on earth. 384 00:36:36.900 --> 00:36:42.119 He does realise that he'd been a little bit premature. 385 00:36:42.179 --> 00:36:48.659 But I do like that moment because that is the last thing that Bill doesn't know about the doctor. 386 00:36:48.719 --> 00:36:59.039 She knows that he travels in time and space and stuff, but what she doesn't know about him is that he saves planets and she realises that that's what's going on. 387 00:36:59.099 --> 00:37:05.340 And I thought that was a great moment and I thought that making that the last big revelation, the last big thing that she learns about the doctor is pretty good. 388 00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:12.119 Saving it up to be a big dramatic sort of moment for her and a realisation in this episode is great. 389 00:37:12.179 --> 00:37:20.519 It gives that 2nd half of the episode a bit more punch that maybe it doesn't necessarily have with the ongoing plot of the episode. 390 00:37:20.579 --> 00:37:29.519 She mentions it a little bit earlier saying about him being the helper and he doesn't like being referred to as that and he says, I just happen to be here. 391 00:37:29.579 --> 00:37:33.059 But then it's, I mentioned again later at that point. 392 00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:35.460 So it's like, oh, that's interesting. 393 00:37:35.519 --> 00:37:36.360 It's, yeah. 394 00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:52.500 It sort of goes back to the beast below a little bit as well where, you know, Amy convinces the doctor do the right thing by pointing out that, you know, when you're very old and very kind and you're the last of your kind, you go out and you rescue children and that's what you do. 395 00:37:52.500 --> 00:37:57.539 And, you know, for years, I've said, I have a problem with that because it relies on the doctor being stupid. 396 00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:07.500 Whereas here the idea is a lot more refined because the doctor's going off and doing this thing and trying to keep Bill safe and telling her to stay in the TARDIS, you know. 397 00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:10.500 So he, like he's learned from that experience. 398 00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:20.219 And so Bill throwing herself back into the adventure is it's an informed choice and it is a supportive choice of what the doctor's doing. 399 00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:24.900 It's not sort of butting heads and saying, no, like, we have to be on opposite sides of this. 400 00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:28.500 It's like, no, no, no, we are on the same side, now I understand everything that's going on. 401 00:38:28.559 --> 00:38:37.320 But yeah, I agree that sort of once the colonists start waking up, things take a bit of a plot convenience turn. 402 00:38:37.380 --> 00:38:57.719 You know, it's kind of like we have to raise the stakes, so praiseworthy has to wander off without the doctor realising I can accept, without Bill noticing, I find much harder to accept, because Bill is like, yeah, come with me down to the engine room that I know is going to blow up shortly. and then wander off. 403 00:38:57.780 --> 00:39:12.539 I have to say that I did like the way that the threat was that he was going to be the new patient zero, that he was going to discover that his mother was gone and then he was going to die and that was going to sort of start the whole thing through the new colonist. 404 00:39:12.599 --> 00:39:22.679 So I thought that was really good, you know, and the revelation that the little locket that the doctor had picked up from the arboretum or whatever, had a picture of him in it. 405 00:39:22.739 --> 00:39:24.239 Like, I thought that was great. 406 00:39:24.300 --> 00:39:31.079 But the episode relied on steadfast being a massive idiot for a start, didn't it? 407 00:39:31.139 --> 00:39:39.659 Like he's just going to go and fire on the things, even though he has to know that the entire colony is made out of them. 408 00:39:39.719 --> 00:39:42.300 You know, or only the shepherds knew that. 409 00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:43.199 That seems unlikely. 410 00:39:43.260 --> 00:39:47.699 Well, if he said tech medic, then he would know how to deal with these. 411 00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:49.139 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 412 00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:50.340 That doesn't make any sense. 413 00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:56.219 And then the doctor just presses to solve the plot button and he presses it and it works. 414 00:39:56.219 --> 00:40:01.800 And then like, is there something political going on here? 415 00:40:01.860 --> 00:40:03.900 Because I think it's pretty thin. 416 00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:10.739 Because the doctor says, like every slave class in history, the Vardia, beginning to have ideas of their own. 417 00:40:11.639 --> 00:40:23.400 And so the doctor wipes their memories. so that the human beings and Lavardi are on equal footing and so they have to collaborate in the new colony. 418 00:40:23.460 --> 00:40:24.420 Do you know what I mean? 419 00:40:24.480 --> 00:40:29.579 So it's better for human beings to not have slaves, but they should have people they can collaborate with. 420 00:40:29.639 --> 00:40:31.139 But I don't know. 421 00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:42.239 Yeah, I, I, that's the thing I have a big problem with in this episode is the fact that they rely on a reset button to save the day because they've written themselves into a corner, probably. 422 00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:46.139 And these ascension beings and you've wiped their memories. 423 00:40:46.199 --> 00:40:47.940 Oh, the doctor does that all the time. 424 00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:49.260 No, I just I don't know. 425 00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:50.159 I just find that... 426 00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:51.059 Ask Noor Khan. 427 00:40:52.139 --> 00:40:57.360 Well, I mean, if they were human beings and they he wiped their memories and that would be problematic, right? 428 00:40:57.480 --> 00:40:59.460 Just because they're robots. 429 00:40:59.519 --> 00:41:04.500 They're sentient robots, like you are literally robbing them of their identity. 430 00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:13.019 But and the mere fact that they consider themselves under threat and they're going to retaliate, a rabid dog behaves like that. 431 00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:13.739 Do you know what I mean? 432 00:41:13.800 --> 00:41:14.460 Or a rat. 433 00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:22.260 Like, you know, so we've decided they're sentient, okay, because he looks at the emoji that are playing across its face and it's, so it's defending itself. 434 00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:25.800 All right, like, that's okay, but I'm not sure that's completely sold. 435 00:41:25.860 --> 00:41:28.559 And then we wipe them memories. 436 00:41:28.619 --> 00:41:31.800 I don't know No, so I didn't take it as I'm being sentuent at the start. 437 00:41:31.860 --> 00:41:39.360 I thought that maybe it happened after he reset them because I just thought it was bad programming that we talk about them not understanding the human way. 438 00:41:39.420 --> 00:41:40.559 They were actually trying to help. 439 00:41:40.619 --> 00:41:46.380 They thought they were helping by eradicating the sadness would stop other people from being sad. 440 00:41:46.440 --> 00:41:48.480 So it was more like a programming fault. 441 00:41:48.539 --> 00:41:51.539 So then when you wipe their memory. 442 00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:56.280 So that was where I was like, it wasn't quite clear as to where that was going. 443 00:41:56.340 --> 00:42:05.639 There is a line in that 1st scene where Kezia says who programmed this, like they shouldn't be behaving like that, who programmed this. 444 00:42:05.699 --> 00:42:16.199 So the idea that they've they've wandered off their programming or that they've learned to behave in this way without being programmed is there, I think. 445 00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:17.820 Does it make it cension? 446 00:42:18.239 --> 00:42:18.960 no, that's right. 447 00:42:19.019 --> 00:42:24.480 It's not quite, it's not quite salt enough, I think, is the problem with that. 448 00:42:24.539 --> 00:42:36.420 Yeah, like it's fair in the 1st scene, but it, it's not threaded through the pot enough and it doesn't quite hang together at the end with the, you know, they've developed sentence. 449 00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:42.000 That's why they're trying to kill you now, even though they were killing you before for your own good. 450 00:42:42.059 --> 00:42:44.699 Now they want to kill you because they think you're a bastard. 451 00:42:44.760 --> 00:42:45.900 You're a threat. 452 00:42:46.440 --> 00:43:00.119 I guess they just ran out of time with the plot as well because they spent so much time at the start developing the relationship with the doctor and all of that and the introducing the issue that I guess it was kind of a, and then they woke up. 453 00:43:00.179 --> 00:43:07.739 Yeah, like I have to say that I don't mind that too much because I did find the stuff with a doctor and Bill at the beginning. 454 00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:10.440 So much more interesting than what ended up happening. 455 00:43:10.500 --> 00:43:14.820 And so I don't think giving more of it to that plot. 456 00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:29.039 Like, I think they've deliberately, when Doctor Who restarts, I think it kind of attempts to tell a four-part story very quickly in 45 minutes and because TV has sped up and because we can afford to have more scenes, they're quite successful, I think, most of the time. 457 00:43:29.099 --> 00:43:45.900 But here we've decided to have the thinnest possible kind of science fiction plot going on, something that can be resolved by the doctor with the Sonic screwdriver in a 2nd at the end to give us time to meet Bill and the doctor properly. 458 00:43:46.019 --> 00:43:48.179 And I think that's a good decision. 459 00:43:48.239 --> 00:44:00.840 And, you know, like I could compare it to the end of the world where it's an insurance scam and the doctor solves it by reversing a teleporter and yelling at someone and that's really all that happens. 460 00:44:00.900 --> 00:44:08.219 So it's another one that where the plot isn't so interesting as the setting and the relationships between the 2 leads. 461 00:44:08.340 --> 00:44:14.699 It's a strange mix of thin sci-fi plot and high concept sci-fi ideas. 462 00:44:14.820 --> 00:44:15.900 Yeah. 463 00:44:16.079 --> 00:44:18.480 Yeah, I like it for the ideas. 464 00:44:18.539 --> 00:44:19.260 Yeah. 465 00:44:19.320 --> 00:44:20.820 And that's okay, I think. 466 00:44:20.880 --> 00:44:21.360 Probably. 467 00:44:21.420 --> 00:44:22.559 Some beautiful visuals. 468 00:44:22.619 --> 00:44:23.519 Do you know what I mean? 469 00:44:23.579 --> 00:44:31.019 Some interesting ideas, but essentially a plot that is, you know, the we press the kill, so you take button and go on our way. 470 00:44:31.320 --> 00:44:34.739 I mean, admittedly, in my job, that's what I have to do. 471 00:44:34.739 --> 00:44:39.119 Anyways, I've got this really terrible problem with my computer. 472 00:44:39.179 --> 00:44:42.780 I know it's cliche, but you need to restart your computer. 473 00:44:42.840 --> 00:44:44.280 You need to turn it off and on again. 474 00:44:44.340 --> 00:44:46.019 And the problem goes away. 475 00:45:01.920 --> 00:45:10.139 I think we do have, as a sort of Bob Baker, Dave Martin problem of, we have all these ideas, and how long do we have? 476 00:45:10.199 --> 00:45:12.480 Really about 25 minutes. 477 00:45:12.539 --> 00:45:14.940 Well, 15 minutes. 478 00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:16.019 Yeah. 479 00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:17.039 You know what? 480 00:45:17.099 --> 00:45:19.320 It's kind of like, I can see what they're going for. 481 00:45:19.380 --> 00:45:24.300 I don't come away from this feeling. that the ideas don't work. 482 00:45:24.360 --> 00:45:28.559 It's just like, oh, I think I think you just needed to workshop that a little bit more. 483 00:45:28.619 --> 00:45:38.880 And I think I think maybe it's the whole thing that Colin Baker talks about in his interpretation of the character in that the doctor does what's right and that's not necessarily pleasant or nice. 484 00:45:38.940 --> 00:46:01.559 And, you know, if there had been a little discussion between the doctor and Bill saying, you know, was it right to white their memories and the doctor just says, well, it's either that or everybody dies and this way everyone has a chance to start from square one and grow together because I think there's an implication that when Kezi is like, who programmed this? 485 00:46:01.619 --> 00:46:03.900 Okay, so no one's keeping an eye on these robots. 486 00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:08.760 You know, no one is supporting them asking them what they want. 487 00:46:08.940 --> 00:46:20.280 And now we're left with the situation at the end where it's like, well, you've got no choice but to work together to ask what the robots want and to realise that they are more than what you created. 488 00:46:20.340 --> 00:46:23.039 I don't think it quite lands that. 489 00:46:23.099 --> 00:46:31.920 But sometimes I quite like a story where I'm able to go, oh, but that means, and da, da, da, da. sometimes it frustrates me to do that. 490 00:46:31.980 --> 00:46:35.460 But I'm less frustrated with this one than I am with some others. 491 00:46:35.579 --> 00:46:50.940 Don't you think the sequel is they come back to the planet and all of the humans are slaving away for their emoji bot overlords in a feudal system of, you know, renting a class, robots, exploiting everyone? 492 00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:52.440 Okay, big finish. 493 00:46:53.639 --> 00:46:58.739 Okay, well, it's funny you should mention that because the ship is called Erewhon. 494 00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:15.960 Yes. which is an anagram of nowhere, but it comes from a satirical novel by Samuel Beckett in the late 1800s, which was a satire of what a utopia would look like with Victorian values. 495 00:47:16.019 --> 00:47:25.739 And one and one of the inversions it does is people who are criminal or perform criminal acts are treated as ill. 496 00:47:25.800 --> 00:47:26.760 They're given treatment. 497 00:47:26.820 --> 00:47:34.260 They're given therapy, da da da, which I'm not denigrating that, but people who are actually ill, who have sicknesses, illnesses. 498 00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:37.019 They are treated like criminals and locked away. 499 00:47:37.019 --> 00:47:43.679 And it's kind of like, oh, well, this is for the good of society because, you know, the criminals don't have any illness. 500 00:47:43.739 --> 00:47:45.480 It's not contagious, so we can treat them. 501 00:47:45.539 --> 00:47:48.000 But you're ill and you're contagious, so we're locking you away. 502 00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:52.860 And that was another, that was another germ of an idea from Frank Cottrell Boy. 503 00:47:52.920 --> 00:48:00.840 So it's kind of like, I feel like the idea of in the forest of the night was quite flawed and led to quite a flawed product, in my opinion. 504 00:48:00.900 --> 00:48:04.260 Whereas this one Frank's just like, I'm throwing everything at the wall. 505 00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:18.360 I tend to think that in the forest of the night is a bit better than this, and I think it's because the stakes are high, and it's because of that moment where Clara tells the doctor to go. 506 00:48:18.420 --> 00:48:22.320 You know, thank you very much for everything, but you can go now. 507 00:48:22.380 --> 00:48:23.519 We're saving you. 508 00:48:23.579 --> 00:48:28.199 And I think the, you know, in this sort of weird, very weird story. 509 00:48:28.980 --> 00:48:34.860 We get a sort of strange examination of the relationship between Clara and the doctor. 510 00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:37.500 I just can't hate that, I think. 511 00:48:43.619 --> 00:48:46.199 Right, I'm gonna say something controversial. 512 00:48:46.260 --> 00:48:54.960 I think that space babies, it does a better job than this, of introducing the world of Doctor Who to a new companion. 513 00:48:55.019 --> 00:48:58.019 Um, because... 514 00:48:58.019 --> 00:48:59.400 Don't tell Simon. 515 00:48:59.579 --> 00:49:05.820 Because, like, this has no characters in it either. 516 00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:06.599 Do you know what I mean? 517 00:49:06.659 --> 00:49:17.699 You've got Mina Anwar, you've got steadfast and praiseworthy, uh, in space babies, uh, you have um, the nurse and you have Eric and Poppy. 518 00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:37.139 I think space babies, is more kind of, like, I like the sort of stately emptiness of the 1st 20 minutes of, you know, of smile, but it's not much like what Doctor Who is like, whereas we get a very straightforward base under siege story, I think, in space babies. 519 00:49:37.260 --> 00:49:43.860 It just happens to disguise the fact of how trad it is by having the main guest cast all be babies. 520 00:49:43.980 --> 00:49:58.739 This is the reason, like the reason you think that's better than this, I think this is better than that, because it does something different from what Doctor Who Often does with introducing companions, it's trying something different. like a lot of this season. 521 00:49:58.800 --> 00:50:01.920 Moffatt's been there, done that over and over again. 522 00:50:01.980 --> 00:50:06.000 And he's trying to do something different. 523 00:50:06.059 --> 00:50:14.460 I know this is not written by him, but obviously it's influenced quite a lot by his ideas for the shape of the season. doing something different with the new companion. 524 00:50:14.519 --> 00:50:17.820 I think makes this a lot more interesting. 525 00:50:17.940 --> 00:50:19.980 That's probably fair. 526 00:50:20.039 --> 00:50:20.760 That's fair. 527 00:50:20.820 --> 00:50:31.199 I just think it's sort of, Lord, it fails in a way that space babies does it because space babies is being made by Russell, who's written heaps of Doctor Who episodes and kind of knows what he's doing, I think. 528 00:50:31.320 --> 00:50:34.800 With this one, I enjoyed seeing Capaldi having fun. 529 00:50:34.860 --> 00:50:49.380 Like, I, he, that's the doctor I wanted to see after all those seasons of Matt Smith and the complicated storylines and all of that. and then having the impossible girl, Clara, and I was a bit disappointed going into that. 530 00:50:49.440 --> 00:50:57.179 But this kind of, it was just fun seeing him having fun and having a bit of a smile and he does that throughout that, I think this season. 531 00:50:57.239 --> 00:50:58.800 Um, yeah. 532 00:50:59.400 --> 00:51:07.320 I think we get the 1st kind of genuine, like a real proper Capaldi smile and remember that Clara used to tell him not to do that. 533 00:51:07.380 --> 00:51:12.059 Like, you just don't do that, please, unless they give you permission, sort of thing, like, don't do the smart. 534 00:51:12.059 --> 00:51:15.900 But the big smile where he and Bill kind of confront the robots. 535 00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:17.280 I think he's really great. 536 00:51:17.340 --> 00:51:19.739 I, you know, yeah. 537 00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:20.219 Yeah. 538 00:51:20.280 --> 00:51:22.440 And he's wearing his chill outfit too, isn't he? 539 00:51:22.500 --> 00:51:24.900 He's got a sort of red t-shirt and a hoodie and stuff. 540 00:51:24.960 --> 00:51:26.400 Like he is properly relaxed. 541 00:51:26.519 --> 00:51:28.800 Wait, isn't it in his very 1st episode? 542 00:51:28.860 --> 00:51:30.840 He talks about angry having angry eyebrows? 543 00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:36.420 Would you notice his emoji, the badge emoji has big eyebrows on it? 544 00:51:59.639 --> 00:52:03.119 Well, be the snow, that's all the time we have for this week. 545 00:52:03.239 --> 00:52:10.440 We'll be back next week for an important lesson about interacting with white supremacists in thin ice. 546 00:52:10.559 --> 00:52:29.099 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us on our website, flight through entirety.com, where you'll find our social media links, as well as links to all of our other podcasts, including our other Doctor Who podcasts, 500-year diary, and the 2nd grade and bountiful human empire. 547 00:52:29.159 --> 00:52:31.559 Bell, where can people find you? 548 00:52:31.619 --> 00:52:44.820 Okay, well, Brendan and I do a podcast called the BJBJ Game Show, and so you can find that on all good places that you find the podcast, and then we've got some websites that Brendan will tell you about. 549 00:52:44.940 --> 00:53:10.739 Yep, so we're active on most social medias of choice, and most podcatchers of choice, and you can find that by searching for BJ, AYBJ Game Show, and our most recent episodes are on the Talos principle, which took a very long time to play, far longer than we anticipated, and lost in play, which was delightful and took a lot less time. perfect. 550 00:53:10.800 --> 00:53:11.699 That's brilliant. 551 00:53:11.820 --> 00:53:16.860 Until next time, maybe you should consider buying your phone a nice new case for Christmas. 552 00:53:16.980 --> 00:53:19.440 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 553 00:53:19.500 --> 00:53:20.280 Good night. 554 00:53:20.340 --> 00:53:21.239 Good night. 555 00:53:21.300 --> 00:53:22.380 Ta-ta. 556 00:53:26.579 --> 00:53:32.699 That was Flight through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, BJ Hobbs, Brendan Jones, and James Selwood. 557 00:53:32.760 --> 00:53:34.800 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. 558 00:53:34.860 --> 00:53:41.820 This episode, Happy to Be There, was recorded on the 4th of August 2024 and released on the 22nd of September. 559 00:53:42.420 --> 00:53:52.019 If you missed us earlier this year, you'll be happy to learn that back in May, we completed a season of a new Doctor Who podcast called 500 year diary. 560 00:53:52.139 --> 00:53:59.579 So if you enjoy this sort of thing, and, of course, you do, head over to 500yearDiary.com and check it out. 561 00:54:03.840 --> 00:54:09.300 So, space babies or, um, smile, Brendan. 562 00:54:09.900 --> 00:54:12.719 I think I'm going to say smile. 563 00:54:12.780 --> 00:54:16.079 Not because I dislike space babies in any way. 564 00:54:16.139 --> 00:54:24.059 But no, I think I'm just going to say smile because I love that opening half hour of them wandering around by themselves. 565 00:54:24.119 --> 00:54:37.800 But something that I don't hear talked about much with space babies is as well as, you know, introducing the new companion to space travel and time travel. 566 00:54:37.860 --> 00:54:51.900 Something it does at the end is give the doctor a very obvious opportunity to go, oh, okay, this is, this is who I am and this is what I do because space babies has the doctor saving the monster. 567 00:54:52.380 --> 00:54:55.500 Just, you know, just like what happens here. 568 00:54:55.559 --> 00:55:03.360 You know, the doctor saves the emoji bots and arguably with space babies, the doctor doesn't have to change anyone's nature in order to save them. 569 00:55:03.420 --> 00:55:15.840 So that's possibly one area where there's been character growth, since this one, you know, the doctor doesn't have to change the nature, he just has to understand the nature of the relationship. 570 00:55:15.900 --> 00:55:29.340 Um, and would I give up 5 minutes of Peter Capaldi and Pearl Mackey wandering around Spain for um, for a, a tighter resolution? 571 00:55:30.840 --> 00:55:32.699 No, I agree. 572 00:55:33.300 --> 00:55:36.119 No, no, I don't think I would. 573 00:55:36.179 --> 00:55:37.139 I don't think I would. 574 00:55:37.260 --> 00:55:38.699 It could have been more interesting. 575 00:55:38.820 --> 00:55:41.820 Yeah, look, I mean, it could have been it could have been better. 576 00:55:41.880 --> 00:55:52.559 I think it could have been better, but it's not the focus of the episode and he's just like, let's press the button and get this over with and that's a bit disappointing, but it's not the 1st Doctor Who story to do that, to be fair. 577 00:55:52.619 --> 00:55:57.480 Would it have been more interesting if they had never met the human colonists? 578 00:55:57.539 --> 00:56:04.980 Literally, like, they worked the entire pot out and saved the day and then revived them at last. 579 00:56:05.039 --> 00:56:09.000 And revive them and say, bye, we sorted out that problem for you, just leaving the town. 580 00:56:09.059 --> 00:56:09.659 I agree with that. 581 00:56:09.719 --> 00:56:10.260 Yeah. 582 00:56:10.320 --> 00:56:18.719 If it had been just about those 2 for that whole episode, except for that very beginning, yeah, I think that would have been quite interesting. 583 00:56:18.780 --> 00:56:20.099 Yeah. 584 00:56:20.159 --> 00:56:24.599 It's hard to do, isn't it, without kind of manufacturing conflict between the 2 of them? 585 00:56:24.659 --> 00:56:32.699 Like, um, but I think people overstate how important conflict is to drama, I guess. 586 00:56:32.760 --> 00:56:41.400 And I do think that what ends up happening is it's the moment where she realises who he is, what his job is, and then decides to join him. 587 00:56:41.460 --> 00:56:44.039 I guess that creates the development, doesn't it? 588 00:56:44.099 --> 00:56:54.960 I mean, I, I, like I would have been sad to lose Mina Anwar at the beginning, but I absolutely don't give a shit about, about steadfast or praiseworthy at all. 589 00:56:55.019 --> 00:56:56.219 Very non-characters. 590 00:56:56.280 --> 00:56:57.300 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 591 00:56:57.360 --> 00:57:01.860 Yeah, yeah. certainly less interesting than Eric and Poppy. for sure. 592 00:57:02.820 --> 00:57:07.079 I think it's why, like, um, you talk about space babies and this one. 593 00:57:07.139 --> 00:57:22.440 I like the beginning, like I like this one with the character development, but I like space babies, I think, because just with the the topic of society saying you've got to have kids and encouraging people to have kids and not giving them a choice of whether they and not supporting them. 594 00:57:22.500 --> 00:57:28.800 Yeah, and then there's all these babies born with no support in the, like they just go, oh, it's born now and walk away from it. 595 00:57:28.860 --> 00:57:29.699 Yeah, yeah. 596 00:57:29.699 --> 00:57:30.659 I think that's why... 597 00:57:30.659 --> 00:57:32.880 Yeah, it does, it really does say that, doesn't it? 598 00:57:32.940 --> 00:57:38.159 I also, I like the idea too that, you know, both of our leads are abandoned children. 599 00:57:38.219 --> 00:57:44.699 And so the 1st adventure they have together by amazing coincidence is the spaceship that's run by abandoned babies. 600 00:57:44.760 --> 00:57:45.719 You know what I mean? 601 00:57:45.780 --> 00:57:52.920 Which kind of, which like the, it undermines it being too overwrought because the abandoned babies are so fun. 602 00:57:53.039 --> 00:57:53.880 Do you know what I mean? 603 00:57:53.940 --> 00:57:55.860 Because... 604 00:57:55.860 --> 00:58:01.920 I'm just impressed with how they did all that, with the animation and the hearts roaming around and they remote control. 605 00:58:02.280 --> 00:58:04.260 Yeah, I think they did. 606 00:58:04.320 --> 00:58:08.159 They had a lot of the 3D modelled like young kids. 607 00:58:08.219 --> 00:58:11.760 The kids that were doing the voices were... 608 00:58:11.760 --> 00:58:13.440 Emotion capture reference, weren't they? 609 00:58:13.440 --> 00:58:15.480 Emotionally controlled capture. 610 00:58:16.320 --> 00:58:19.559 And then mapped onto the baby's faces. 611 00:58:19.619 --> 00:58:20.820 I actually think it works pretty well. 612 00:58:20.880 --> 00:58:22.980 I mean, it is very uncanny Valley. 613 00:58:23.039 --> 00:58:23.579 It's supposed to be. 614 00:58:23.639 --> 00:58:24.960 I mean, because babies are weird. 615 00:58:25.019 --> 00:58:31.199 That's the other thing about babies is babies are weird and off-putting and they sh everywhere and they snot. 616 00:58:31.260 --> 00:58:32.579 They're covered in snot. 617 00:58:32.639 --> 00:58:34.559 All of that stuff was brought up in the episode. 618 00:58:34.619 --> 00:58:35.760 Do you know what I mean? 619 00:58:35.820 --> 00:58:36.960 Just how weirded I've put it in. 620 00:58:37.019 --> 00:58:38.400 That Doctor Who is puerile. 621 00:58:38.400 --> 00:58:39.000 It's child. 622 00:58:39.059 --> 00:58:49.619 One of my favourite moments is Eric, with this little toy sword going down to confront the monster, which I just think is absolutely adorable because we tell babies what brave boys they are or brave girls and stuff. 623 00:58:49.860 --> 00:58:51.300 You know. 624 00:58:52.079 --> 00:58:55.559 I'm going to go and have a word with that nasty talking.