Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety
the only Doctor Who podcast consisting of 2 tones of different
frequencies presented separately to each ear, which elicits the
sensation of a 3rd tone oscillating at the difference frequency of
the 1st 2 tones.
I'm Nathan.
I'm Brendan.
I'm Peter and I'm Simon.
Well, we haven't had a haunted house around here since 2013.
If you don't count those scenes in that episode in 2014, and so
we're just about due for another one.
David Suchet's not busy, so we'll get him in.
And we've got some thrilling new audio technology.
One of the sound guys wants to try out.
So let's see what happens when we mix that all down as we discuss
knock knock.
I've got nothing.
You know, it does concern me that people who say that Doctor Who's
budget should be cut and you'd have every week a haunted house and
it would be amazing.
We might just be setting ourselves up for a whole season of knock
knocks.
What I actually found it doing quite a lot was reminding me of a
much better Doctor Who story and that's ghost light.
And so the exteriors of the house have a fake computer generated
tower, sort of charting up from the middle of it.
And then we had fake computer generated lightning for a lot of it
for atmosphere.
The corridors, I think, were very, very similar with all of that
dark wood and stuff.
But somehow, a haunted house, I think, really lives or dies on
atmosphere, and it's hard to tell because I haven't got any real
concrete claims to make, but I just didn't feel the atmosphere
here at all.
I did feel atmosphere.
It's one of those times where it all looks fine on paper
everyone's going through the motions and doing what they're
supposed to do, but it's just, and it's not terrible.
No, no, no, no.
It's fine.
Yeah, it's fine.
And I think that's the problem with this.
And I think the problem with much of this season, or at least much
of what I've watched of it so far, is it's fine.
I think it's in need of at least one or 2 more drafts and a bit
more thinking as to the resolution and everything like that. you
know what I mean?
Yeah.
The word that came to mind for me was vanilla.
Yes, there was a vanilla.
It doesn't.
Yeah, Ghostlight has this delicious current of black humour
running through it.
Whereas this didn't, this felt quite lightweight.
And I did kind of appreciate it for having a bit of a sitcom style
setup, but I'm not sure that was the tone that we were going for.
No, in fact, for me, that's the bit that worked.
Let's talk about the beginning of it.
I really, really liked the beginning.
You know, the normal way to get someone to sleep in a haunted
house in a sitcom is, of course, if your crazy aunt makes it a
condition of inheriting in the world. you know what I mean?
You have to stay the night in a haunted house first.
And here, like, I just thought it was very sweet, the fact that
now we have sort of Gen Z people or I've completely lost track.
But what later were up to?
Yeah, yeah, but lovely young people trying to rent a flat, and of
course, that's impossible.
And there's that wonderful line where one of them says Shireen
possibly says, what do other people do?
And Bill says, other people have money.
And like that horrible real estate agent in the terrible suit who
is showing them around these places.
Rolling his eyes to see.
Actually, that's the thing.
It, not actually a haunted house story.
It's trying to be an 80s horror film.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And there are actually a difference because Ghostlight has that
Victorian, I mean, it is set in the Victorian era, but it's not
just that it's got the flavour of a Victorian ghost story.
Whereas this has got the flavour of those 80s nightmare on Elm
Street type type things.
I think that's what it's going for.
Because for me, even though, yes, that earlier part, those early
sequences where they're hunting for the flats are great and
they're really well done, you then need to sort of adjust your
idea of what the episode's going to be once they arrive at the
house.
And with 45 minutes, you just don't have enough time to change
your idea of what's going to be happening.
Yeah, I think that's it.
There isn't enough time to build atmosphere.
So we're doing a haunted house thing, but we're doing it in a
traditional 45 minute episode that's just full of dialogue, full
of people talking to one another.
And so there just isn't enough time to build up tension, I think.
But going back to the sitcom thing, I think the other thing that
really works is the characters.
Can I just say Shareen, Pavel, Harry, Felicity, and Paul.
Yeah, she didn't think I could do that.
No, I certainly can't.
So I'm glad one of us stay...
In fact, one of my favourite moments is Bill's trying to get the
doctor to leave.
And he says, no, no, I'm going to stay up with Simon and she just
says, Harry. and Florence.
Felicity.
And like it's probably an editing thing, but the comic timing of
it is absolutely perfect.
Like I roared with laughter.
And it kind of makes fun of the fact that they're sort of-ish red
shirts in a way.
But they are really, really well characterised.
And it's not the writing.
It's not that sort of Russell T. Davis characterisation where he
gives a character a thing and then you kind of know them quite
well.
It's just getting a group of diverse and attractive young people.
You know, they have different accents.
Um, Harry, perfect diversity.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Harry's very northern, gorgeous.
Paul is ridiculously tall, like absurdly comically tall.
Expendable.
Unexpendable.
Like, they're really good.
Like those characters are great.
I really like them.
Yeah, yeah.
Yes, I could want to live in that house.
Yeah, yeah.
And you know, some of it's to do with the riceing, but I think a
whole lot of it has to do with the casting.
They're so immediate and it's just cast really well.
They all inhabit those characters with just like one or 2 beats.
Yeah, yeah.
That's part of the thing of, yes, it is kind of a sitcom setup.
But also going back to that point about it also being an 80s
horror film.
The thing with teens in 80s horror film is at least half of them
are in some way unlikeable.
So you're kind of going, oh, yeah, they're going to bite it now.
And none of these people are unlikeable.
So you automatically lose that fun part of a horror film.
Yeah.
Where you're cheering for someone to die.
Yeah.
Exactly.
There are 2 obvious horror references for me in this.
And one is the evil dead when Felicity runs outside and is
overtaken by a tree and obviously it doesn't go full evil dead.
And for those of you who haven't seen it, I'm not going to go into
detail because it's quite disturbing.
Um, then I think at the end there's also some very clear
comparisons to Psycho.
Well, very clear comparison.
Psycho.
Yeah, so I was going to bring that up.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, all of that stuff is terrifically fun.
They're fun to watch, you know, and and I think Bill and the
doctor work really well in this context too.
And, you know, we've talked about Bill kind of undermining the
show with the sort of genre aware questions that she asks.
And so here we get the Time Lord reveal.
Like it's episode 4 and we get the 1st mention of the Time Lords
and stuff and she reacts properly to the Revelation that they're
called Time Lords because that's stupid.
And with Terrence Dix having a bad day, I think.
Well, no, it's just a different era.
It's just the fact that there's an awful lot of I just love
watching all the pearl clutching in the modern era when it's
brought up that he's a time lord because all the people, especially
the people making the program, have this kind of aversion to the
oh my god, he's a lord. that means he can't be one of us.
Yeah, I was terrible.
I got these lord, he's on it.
That means he won't be relatable and stuff like that.
But they always have to go through some kind of charade excuse
about it.
In fact, I think, you know, in a very, very bad episode, the
caretaker describing the doctor as aristocratic, I thought works
really quite well.
Do you know what I mean?
Like it's a good critique of the way he sends people to their
deaths.
Then, you know, it's not fair or whatever, but it actually works.
Here, it is just sort of mocking the kind of slight silliness of
the law, I think.
Yeah.
And I love his, you know, know, we don't have big hats, but we
mostly have big hats too.
I like your reference to pearl clutching, a fair amount of that
happens in this episode.
Yes, exactly.
In fact, we talked about sitcom.
I think a lot of the comedy moments in this episode come from
Peter Capaldi and the doctor, because the doctor placed in this
situation with a bunch of young people house sharing is like
putting him into an alien society.
He does not know what to deal with and who to relate to and how to
come across as normal in that situation.
But again, it's a bit like the lodger action.
A little bit like the lodger.
Yeah, yeah.
And all of that works really well.
Moffat in one of the sort of additional bits of video that was
released at the same time, he says that what he wanted to do was
have the TARDIS be used for a normal thing.
And so Bill calls the doctor and says, can you help me move into
this house and he materialises around all of her stuff and then
sort of drops it off.
And it just reminds me of what I think is a genius moment in time
of the doctor where Clara wants to use the TARDIS because she
hasn't cooked the turkey into.
And so she needs a time machine so that she can get it right
cooked by the time wins or something.
And so all of that's really fun.
You know, he's kind of a bit right when he says he doesn't look
old enough to be her grandfather.
It's part of Moffat's weird preoccupation with Capaldi's age.
We saw it all the way back in deep breath where he kept talking
about how old he was.
He's not that old.
It's like they regret it at the moment they cast him or
something.
Yeah, see that making excuses for us.
I mean, Kapold is 57 here.
He is Pearl Mackey's dad, not her grandad.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, well, Pearl Mackey's 29.
Right.
But I think she's playing it younger.
But what's fun is, of course, putting Capaldi's doctor on the back
foot, given that he's so imperious and so in command.
And, you know, it's like putting pertry on the back foot.
It just works terrifically well.
Love them for the same reason.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it's sort of nice too that the doctor doesn't get that all
these young people might just want to spend time away from this
old person.
Yeah, yeah.
And remember when he gets when he gets Bill's phone and Bill is
desperately trying to hide the fact that she likes little Mix, who
do the song at the very opening thing, and she's trying to hide it
and saying, it's Spotify, it's probably just random, and he goes
no, no, there's a whole playlist here.
He's actively embarrassing her by mistake just by not quite being
able to read the signals.
And that brilliant moment where he crunches on the cracker and
everything pauses for 3 seconds for him to be really awkward
eating it.
Yeah, yeah.
He tries to crunch on it quietly, doesn't he?
I think it's in the middle of the landlord's speech, but all of
that stuff is really just tremendously good.
It's a little bit again, like the sushi in Dr. Mysterio, which was
so awesome.
I mean, I'm doing a bit of a tod.
Now that we're talking about it.
I think I do like it a bit more than I thought I did.
No, it's perfectly fun.
That's why I say it's fine.
I don't want to say this.
This is not a bad episode.
No, I'm just not saying it's not a great episode.
Yeah, vanilla.
Vanilla.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think perhaps is trying to do too many things at once.
And so provides a perfectly entertaining 50 minutes of all of them
but it's, you know, it's not a great horror episode of Doctor Who
and it's not a great comedy episode of Doctor Who, but it is
perfectly fine.
Like, it's gone up a little bit in my estimation, like Smile did a
couple of weeks ago.
I think another big problem is watching again, it's like, I don't
have a good idea of the geography of the house.
And like when you get stuff like Psycho and Halloween that rely on
you know, being in this one location, you do end up with a good
idea of where the rooms are and okay, if she's in here, then the
killer's there and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
And I don't know if that's careless direction or if it's
deliberate to try and be unnerving, but instead it just takes me
out of it a bit because I find myself thinking, oh, so Bill's
saying go up from here, but I thought we were on the 2nd floor and
you can't go up to the tower.
Where is the tower?
And at one point, Bill's like, the tower must be over here.
It's like, okay.
It's interesting that you say that you don't quite know where you
are in the house because I didn't really actively think that this
but there was sort of like that passive thought at the back of my
mind at times.
Like, are we supposed to, is the house actually rearranging
itself?
Um, in that, in that...
Exactly.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
For example.
And yeah, so I just, unfortunately, I don't think it's
deliberate.
I think it's just the fact that they haven't worked it out.
And I think it doesn't help the fact that different parts of the
house look like they're completely different locations, which they
are.
Right.
Yeah.
And I think that's the problem.
They look too much like they're completely different place. 2
locations in a set, isn't it?
Oh, is it?
And you've got the one of the locations is the Wester Drumland's
house from Blink, apparently.
It's next door to it because apparently...
Yeah, I looked this up when I watched it.
The, um, it's so it's like a 70-tached Gothic mansion and the
blink was the other half of it.
Yeah.
But I think that they actually, the seller in blink was a set, but
I think they use the seller in the blink house for knock knock.
Yeah, it's all very incestuous.
But I think that doesn't help the idea of internal geography.
But the thing about location is always a thing in those films like
Brendan was saying, you need to know where the characters are and
where they're going to escape to.
So there's that moment of, no, don't go through that door.
That's only the stairs to the cellar. you know, And so it helps to
build anticipation, whereas here they could just be wandering
around on different sets.
Exactly.
And they are, yeah.
The other thing that doesn't work too, is that there is this
gimmick that the ward is alive, which I think is really good, and
it's a great idea, but they never actually make it happen.
So there's a few scenes where, for instance, the doctor notices
that a door has sealed itself shut, like the wood has grown over
but they've made no attempt to make it look like that in any way.
They've done nothing.
They've just sort of had the door.
And then.
No, no, no.
You can see that the side is all like where the and where the gap
would be is kind of like filled in, like like with, you know, bog
filler or something.
It just doesn't quite work, I think.
And the same with the closing shutters and stuff like that.
There's a good scene, I think, outside when Felicity's running
away and she runs past and all of the shutters of the doors closed
by themselves.
I think that's really good.
But I think, you know, making the wood grow and do things like
there's just not quite enough money to sell it, I think.
They have to be too sparing with their effect shots.
Yeah, I think so.
And then there's the effect shots of the bugs.
Yeah, and it's very very CGI.
It's very bad.
I mean, wood lice from space.
It a step up or down from the tractors.
I don't think it's necessarily a money thing.
I think just sometimes there are ways of doing these effects and
sometimes like the CGI when you're building a creature in CGI and
I think I just think some people are a bit better at it than other
people.
And maybe some creatures are easier to achieve than others.
And I think the regularity of like a wood giant wood lice maybe
makes it look too CGI because it all looks a bit too perfect.
I think the action.
And there's no slime and goo.
There needs to be kind of some slime and goo.
I think in close-up they actually look fine.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, it's yeah, it's not swarms of them that look terrible.
Yeah, but it's also it's also the way they're overlaid on whatever
it is. that's what I'm saying There's something wrong.
There's just something wrong.
It's like those scenes from the mummy, like the early CGI scenes
back in 2000 or the 90s whenever the original mummy was with those
scarab Beatles kind of going over everyone and it never looks
rice.
It just looks like it's been built in a computer.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But, you know, we're spoiled.
Yes, yeah.
That's true.
And of course, where it will come to it, but where Doctor Who gets
it right is in, say, Eliza, where it melts out with live action
and a real person, and that looks great.
I suppose it does.
I think we're even just spoiled by last week because last week did
create that world in a really vivid way where you couldn't see the
seams.
Yes, it looked very, very good.
I wonder why.
And even the week before, actually, where we dropped that Spanish
museum into the middle of a Bali.
Oh, that looks great.
It looked just incredible.
Yeah, you know.
But if we're watching Doctor Who for this movie.
Yes, you shouldn't be watching Doctor Who.
Even now.
Can we talk about David Soucher?
Are we up to are we upset?
Yeah.
Great piece of casting.
Obviously, you know, one of those actors. why has it taken this
long for him to be in Doctor Who kind of thing.
But I want to sort of say how great he is in this kind of role.
And it suits his Poirot acting as well because it's a heightened
kind of acting.
It's not over the top.
There is a difference between heightened and over the top.
And I think David Souchey delivers what I would call a perfect
Doctor Who performance in here with that level of a heightened
performance.
It's understated heightened performance.
Like, he underplays everything.
Not a single line is. he's obviously so much of a better with the
exception of Capaldi.
He's a better actor than any of them that are there.
And it may partly be because he's, you know, decades older than
the rest of the cars, but he's delivering his lines in a way where
the lines are meant to be heard rather than in a way where the
lines are just meant to pass the time so we can get to the next
line.
But, you know, part of that, I think, is that he has to look old
fashioned.
Of course, no, exactly.
So he doesn't know who the Prime Minister is.
He's wearing an old-fashioned suit.
He gets on that, yeah.
And he's doing sort of old-fashioned presentational style of
acting as well.
Exactly.
Yeah, and that's what I love.
And that's why I think it's perfect for you to hear.
I knew you would love it.
And I do too, because it's a very classic series performance.
That's what I was trying to say.
Actually, it really helps because he's, you know, we often talk
about Doctor Who doesn't work when not all of the cast are on the
same page.
I don't think the cast here are on the same page and it's
deliberate because all of Bill's friends are presenting with those
very modern style performances and he's doing an old-fashioned
documentary.
Yeah, but that works because he's not, it wouldn't work if one of
the kids was doing separation.
Yeah.
But again, it's the way television performance is done. has
changed over the decades.
And this David Souche performance is a throwback to that, but I
actually think the Doctor Who, even in the modern era, works when
we have actors delivery.
Certainly when they're the villains delivering that style of
performance rather than the hammy over the top style, which is
what's so often they fall into the trap of doing.
It's great, isn't it?
Because he, like, I am not super familiar with the Poirot.
No, I definitely watched it.
I have watched some.
I remember a thing called Blot on the Landscape from the 1980s
which was dramatisation of a Tom Sharp novel starring Geraldine
James and he was the eponymous blot.
And so that's where I knew him from...
Yeah, a lot on the landscape in the 1980s, Terror of the Verbals.
No, that's great.
That's just one of several blocks.
Don't single out that.
That's it.
I'm out.
That body's in that.
Exactly.
The best thing about it. absolutely.
That's not an exaggeration.
Absolute truth.
But there's a warmth to him, like every so often, that smile is so
genuinely warm and it is fake.
Like it is to lure them in, but it works perfectly well.
But also the mood shifts, you know, don't go up to the tower.
Yeah, that's that, again, and it's done with the cuts too, as he
turns around, the visual cut. speaks to me.
Even that suit is the same colour as the wall panelling.
When he 1st appears inside the house.
It looks like he's emerged from the wall because he's kind of
disappearing into the wall because his suit's exactly the same
colour. like Homer coming out of the hedge.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, no, I think he's extremely good.
I do think he is really great.
I do want to give props to the actor who plays Harry though.
Colin Ryan.
Oh, he sounds good.
He's so good.
And he is filling the role, which I think is lacking in the modern
era of the pseudo companion.
Temporary companion. temporary companion, which we just see so
little of with these single episode stories and he does it so, so
well.
And I do get upset when he gets eaten.
He gets scared so convinced. like he does a proper Doctor Who
scared companion act.
Yes. in the best way.
He has that great reaction shot where they're all sitting in the
living room and there's noises from the kitchen and it's behind
him and he just looks around the chair with this sort of scared
look on his face. just amazing.
It's got great big eyes acting.
Friend of the podcast, Corey McMahon texted me after this episode
went to air and said, we've been lacking a twink companion for
Doctor Who.
He said, we've had Russell.
Why didn't we have a twink community?
That's what Adrick was supposed to be.
Patrick's bum was always too big to be a twink.
But the closest I can think of would be Adam.
Adam, yes.
Adam was definitely.
And so there was some stuff where they wanted Harry to be Harry
Sullivan's grandson.
And he does mention his grandfather, who just doesn't mention him
by name.
His grandfather's boyfriend who tries to steal part of the Great
Wall of China.
Yeah, Harry's enjoying his retirement, having committed a war
crime by inventing that pathogen to target the Zigon.
Zygons.
Yeah.
Was that the hush hush thing he was doing at Port and Down?
Yeah, that's right.
So, yes, that was in the script for a very long time.
It was actually mainly dropped from writer Mike Bartlett's
perspective because this is, to date, his only Doctor Who.
He's most famous for creating and writing Dr. Foster with Saran
Jones, but he was a huge Doctor Who fan and his youth and Harry
was his favourite companion and he sort of went during the
drafting process.
He's like, okay, but how many people out there also remember Harry
Sullivan, and is it just going to sort of bog down that scene
where young Harry's also called Harry Sullivan?
And what was going to happen was when the doctor's listing the
names at the end, he would say, oh, Pavlo Ivanov and da da da.
And Harry.
Oh, Bill, Bill.
Oh, it's awful.
I don't know his name.
Sullivan.
Harry Sullivan?
You know, then it's also happening in this big dramatic scene that
we get the name drop of someone, the general public may not
remember.
So he just went, I'm just gonna...
I'll tell the fans I did it.
Yes, I think all that would have interfered with the flow. such as
it is.
Yes, now that you say that all sounds like a lot less fun than I
thought.
But you know, Harry Sullivan was.
That doesn't necessarily go against what we knew about Harry.
It's one thing taking a character who's been established and sort
of turning them into an entirely different thing.
But Harry's sexuality was never stated in the show and his
relationship with Sarah was very much kind of brother and sister
best friends.
Yeah.
I, I think the, the Port and Downs thing was terrible, like making
Harry, the creator of a pathogen to explode Zygons.
I thought was should have been cut.
That's awful because that violates his character.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Thanks, Brandon.
I didn't hear that.
If I could say something about David Souche as well.
Because I've seen all of his Poirots.
And of course, one of the early ones, wasp's nest features a young
Peter Capaldi in clown makeup.
Oh my goodness.
And they'd worked together on one other thing as well.
And apparently sort of between shots, they were they were chatting
about their mutual lover photography.
Okay.
David and Peter, which is lovely and very sweet.
I also wanted to mention Suchet's 1st brush with Poirot isn't
Poirot.
He plays Detective Japp in one of the Peter Houstonov films 13 at
dinner.
Oh, really?
Which he has stated is the worst performance of his career.
Probably someone else's best performance.
We touched on the resolution, and Brandon, you mentioned it before
you know, the psycho reference, which I couldn't help but thinking
when I was watching it again yesterday, but I still think overall
and I think that this is where, apart from other niggling things
where it does get let down.
I just think it's a great concept for a story, which is still
looking for its resolution.
They just needed to sort of think about it a bit more.
I mean, why is it only every 20 years that David Suchet needs to
tempt a bunch of young kids.
That's when the house runs out of... runs out of... young person
energy.
Yeah, even so, it's just, I don't know.
It's like, oh, here's this great explanation we've come up with
for this and it doesn't sit right with me.
I actually think that scene is actively terrible.
Actively terrible.
Yeah.
Oh, shockingly bad.
And I think I think part of it is just trying to be polite.
No, no.
I think part of the problem is...
I'm not trying I think part of the problem is that it's just
massively overwrought.
Like, just, like, we're all looking into each other's eyes and
crying and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and I just sort of
thought that that was kind of terrible.
It's layering on stakes and emotion, which hasn't really earned.
No.
I also have never a fan.
The twist is dumb.
Who cares?
Well, yeah, yeah.
He's actually here...
So what?
So, yeah.
Oh, great.
Okay.
But also it's that thing of, I'm never a huge fan of when the
villain, the monster, whatever it is, suddenly decides that, oh
yes, I'm actually evil and this is a bad idea, so I'll just kind
of destroy myself right now.
Yeah, so I mean, what the twist enables is the resolution.
So the twist enables the twist air quotes.
Yeah, the twist makes it clear to Eliza that she's in charge, that
she doesn't have to go along with what the landlord is doing.
And so she puts a stop to it.
And like that kind of works, I guess.
And the way the twist is revealed is good, you know, Bill goes
actually, that makes no sense.
The version of the story you've come up with, Doctor, is
ridiculous.
No one behaves like that.
And then we get the truth and all of that sort of fine, but
there's such low stakes to it.
Like, I can see why it's there, but it is sort of dumb.
And I think too, like it's Doctor Who.
And I think Eliza looks amazing.
Like there's live action.
There's some kind of, it's not just live action.
There is some makeup, isn't there?
Yeah, I think I think it's mostly makeup.
And then, um, they, the, I think the big CG component might be the
eyes.
Right.
I mean, I think it looks, it looks great, you know, like her hair
looks like wood shavings and stuff like that.
I think it's a great costume, but there is something slightly
ridiculous about David Suchet staring into her face when she's
covered in rubber and welling up and stuff.
I just couldn't buy it.
It was just a little bit too stupid.
But also, you don't revert. we don't revert to our childhood cells
when we're talking to our mothers.
No.
Do you know what I mean?
You're still, he still lived for however many decades he's lived.
Yeah, yeah.
I think I think the idea is that they, he's, and that's the other
thing.
Like everyone's parents die.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, it's like, this is a thing that happens to everyone.
And like people don't go on like decades on killing sprees as a
result.
It's terrible.
That's the reference. right.
But it's terrible and it's sad and then we get over it and it
seems to me that it's sort of young people who haven't experienced
any kind of particular loss writing a story like that.
It just seems ridiculous.
Like, look at, yes, you know, and Frankenstein as well.
Do you know what I mean?
Victor Frankenstein creates the monster who is also called
Frankenstein.
Don't acne. of the death of his mother.
Do you know what I mean?
I've seen the brain of Morbius.
I know.
So, so, you know, like, it's a thing, but it always just sits
really, like, it's, I think it's stupid.
But especially from the time you're talking about because, you
know, it's basically what, the 30s?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it doesn't happen now as much.
But back then, you know, people would just die.
Like people could be 35 years old and get some kind of illness and
die.
Yeah, who had a big family and 2 would have died in childbirth.
Yeah, and I mean, we're probably talking a bit slightly after that
I think, when this is it, but it's more to the point that being a
child of that ear and having your mother die when you're still a
child is not that unusual.
No, no, no, no.
Like, it happens now.
It's happening.
It does still happen.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But people get over it.
And so I just find it hard to have...
There's a lot of sympathy coming through.
No, no, no, no.
No, but I know what you mean.
That's what I'm saying. just a bit unsatisfactory. looking for an
explanation as to why this is all happening.
That's right You've got to go in knowing how your story's going to
end, and it feels like they created this situation, then try
desperately.
And then try to work out.
How are we going to wrap this up?
That's what I was taking vibes off.
It's also the unsatisfactory nature of the landlord's character is
I think he's presents as alien, the way that he kind of deals with
things as alien, not human.
Or at least possessed by aliens.
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, the doctor immediately clocks that he's not from the
present, which I thought was pretty good.
And I do, I do love the prime ministers that he mentioned
including Harriet Jones.
Harriet Jones.
But the other thing that really gives me the erits is this thing
that everybody has to come back to life.
Yeah.
It just, you know, it had such a great cold open where, you know, a
classic kind of opening sequence where the, well, like not quite
the opening sequence, but where Parvel is killed, that's vintage
Doctor Who.
That's what we're here for.
That's for that 1st scene scene before you cut to the Tartar scene
or you cut to the Tartarus materialising where it is.
You know, it's the scream that kind of goes to that.
And I just can't we do it so that, okay, some of them die and then
some of them survive.
Absolutely.
You want Harry to come back to life.
That would have been terrible.
No, but everybody else can die.
Well.
No, no, he hasn't died. he should be the one who actually doesn't
die in the 1st place.
I think just once they're absorbed, they should just die.
Right.
Like, I think it's a massive cheat.
So we want to have deaths and we want it to be a horror film, but
we don't want to actually kill anyone.
What are they frightened of?
Well, I think that Bill becomes a less convincing character if
she's so traumatised.
Like if all of her friends die in this flat share, then it's that
question that we asked about Sarah.
Why doesn't she just punch the doctor in the face and then leaves
him forever?
Yes, but I fundamentally disagree with that.
As you're fond of saying, it's a television show.
Oh, yeah, yeah, it's not actually real.
I think if you're concerned about that aspect of it, then you have
they're not all her friends, like she's close to 2 of them, but
then the other 3 of them are their friends and she kind of knows
them, but, you know, so she doesn't really care as much.
But, you know, obviously in Doctor Who.
Well, less so now, but you know, people die in Doctor Who.
And the companion and the doctor just move on to the next episode
where yet more people die.
And then yet more people die in the next episode and it's just
something that is part of the show and we shouldn't get hung up
about how a real person would actually react.
Yeah, I've seen Tegan in Resurrection of the Daleks.
Well, yeah.
Well, I do think, though, that it's different to turn up in a
space based somewhere, like next week, and have people die
compared to like Cherie.
And like having Shareen die is great because it gives Pearl a
great acting moment.
Like, I think her reaction is really good and her reaction when
the doctor comes in and she says what's happened to her and
stuff.
I think that's a great performance, but I would have hated those
characters to die.
And so I think that there's something misconceived about it.
You need to do something different.
It doesn't work as it stands.
But that's what I'm saying is if you just have, there are 5 of
them apart from Bill, you have 3 of them die.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, 2 of them die. one of them comes back to life.
Do you know what I mean?
And the other 2 don't.
It's the fact that they all get eaten and then they all come
back.
It's just tiresome.
I think it's that weird hangup that modern Doctor Who has that you
can't show violence to children because they might be impacted by
it.
They might replicate it.
They don't go out to find some wood lized.
I mean, you can't have Mr. Sin stabbing somebody because that
might, you know, that might traumatise people, whereas you can
show someone being blown up by a laser.
I think it's you don't want to show, and I don't agree with this.
I think that they didn't want to show Bill's lovely friends being
killed and not brought back to life, whereas next week in oxygen, a
bunch of people in space and space suits is fine because kids
don't relate to that.
I think that's what the thinking is.
I don't agree with it, but I think that's what it is.
That's definitely what it is. and I think that's it's pulling its
ridiculous.
Yeah, it's stupid.
I think not traumatising Beale is worth doing.
I think that that's the problem.
I think that there's no way that Bill doesn't leave after that
experience if it happens to her friends and that's the problem.
When she goes somewhere else, it's fine.
Even when that little kid gets eaten by tiny last week.
Do you know what I think it would actually really work quite well
as is actually a companion introduction story.
Ah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And she's the survivor of the share house.
Either she's the one of the survivors. the Vicky.
Yeah.
Not the parallel I was reaching.
Great, yes.
Sandy the Woodlouse.
So you may be relieved to know that it was originally far worse
and everyone the house had ever consumed was going to come back to
life in the early draft.
And then it's like, how is she getting managing from them?
Yeah, exactly.
Anything consumed by Eliza.
Yeah, and yeah, and then the doctor just says, don't worry
everyone, I'll take you home in the TARDIS.
I'd like to dance around on the pavement outside saying
everybody...
Well that worked once.
Yes.
I mean, we actually saw Eliza absorb the energy when Shareen
gets...
Yes, she gets exhilarated.
Yeah, so we saw that happen.
Yes.
And like we did have that dialogue from the landlord about how
powerful was in the walls that he existed in the house.
And so it sort of sells it.
But how does this work?
Parvel, let's just say Parvel.
Parvel is absorbed into the wall and then the wall, the house is
what feeds, feeds Liza.
Or is it the fact that the lice then take it from the wall and
then like crawl into a mouth.
I mean, I don't know.
I don't know, you're right. doesn't really matter, but it's like
so is it the house that's absorbing people or is it the lice
that's eating people and feeding that energy to Eliza?
I know it doesn't really matter, but it's the kind of thing you
think of.
If you're thinking of it when you're watching the episode.
They've got a problem.
There is a line, I think, where it said that the house is
basically made up of the lice at this point, and of course, yeah
when the house...
Yeah, the wood is the lies.
And then, of course, the house collapses, you know, when the light
is destroyed.
How are they destroyed?
I don't.
This is something that material was filmed for, I presume the CG
wasn't done for it.
So in the original ending, we cut to a few weeks later and cut
back to the house, and it's basically the same shape, but in a
better state of repair, and the 6 of them are living there again
and the doctor explains that Eliza and the landlord are now in the
walls, but they're at peace because they've accepted their fate.
And Bill's like, yeah, well, Paul dropped his keys down the grate
last week, and then they were sitting on the And, you know, all
these things keep happening and the doctor's like, if a house can
turn against you, it can also look after you.
That's why some places feel comfortable.
Maybe I'm wrong and the Dyads are originally all here from Earth.
And they decided, no, we need to see more about the vault.
So we'll cut that and put in stuff around the vault and just say
it's okay, Bill, you go back to your foster mother who, in a
deleted scene, has already...
Yeah, her room before she moves to the gym.
Well, I mean, I think I think we've been saved that kind of
happily ever after ending, actually.
Well, I actually do like all 6 of them there going, what the hell
are we going to do?
It's just quite fun.
Just going back to that thing that Bill would leave if they all
died, and fine, OK, if we're going to live in that universe, that's
a thing.
But the universe we are living in, though, now is a very different
universe to the one that Sarah Jane was living in because Bill is
still living on Earth.
And she just goes on trips with a doctor from time to time because
a doctor and Nardo are guarding the vault.
So it's not that classic series thing where they're just going
from place to place to place to place.
And then every now and again having tear of the zygons or
something.
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah.
So it's a bit different.
Yeah, like a so it's sort of like the purple era.
But you well, yes, but I don't get the impression that Joe Grant
is living in a shared house somewhere.
No.
She's they're all living on barracks.
Oh do you think?
I think so yes.
He's got a lovely flat.
Yeah, lovely flat Kensington.
Uncle's money.
Let's talk about the final vault scene.
This is not the 1st time this will happen, and Eaters of Lied gets
its ending kind of written by Moffat.
This scene's clearly written by Moffat, I think.
And I think the thing that really... almost like the next episode
started.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, in the 80s, you know.
I was thinking of the 60s, actually.
Okay, yes.
Yeah, it's like we're being inside something.
What's the end of Aztecs?
So we're on top of something?
Or inside something?
Exactly.
Thank you very question.
It is very cute. and I do think the way that the doctor sells it
by telling Missy, it's a story about a house inhabited by wood
lice and lots of young people getting.
Yes, yes, that's get eaten.
It's even better.
I think that's actually when you sort of know.
Oh, it's definitely missy.
I think so.
That's right, because the Hoovians show was having their
speculation each week about what's in the vault and I think we
were going, no, it's just missing.
It's just missing.
It's a pteraleptol.
Yeah, it's funny because I wanted the door to open and there
stands a sea double.
I'm blacking like seven.
Exactly.
Well, David, sir, that's all the time we had for this week.
We'll be back next week to help the proletariat seize the means of
production in space in oxygen.
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts
and you can keep up with us on our website, flightthroughentirety
com, where you'll find our social media links, as well as links to
all of our other podcasts, including our other Doctor Who podcasts
500-year diary, and the 2nd grade and bountiful human empire.
Until next time, remember that you can't really process your grief
in a healthy way by killing a whole bunch of people.
Thank you very much for listening and good night.
Spoil sport.
Good night.
Yeah, clearly you'd never tried it.
Good night.
Bye-bye.
That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Peter
Griffith, Brendan Jones, and Simon Moore.
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.
This episode, Pearl Clutching was recorded on the 25th of August
2024 and released on the 6th of October.
If you've been affected by any of the issues raised in this
program, not to worry, it's still October, and there's plenty of
time for you to order your mother a great big tub of polyurethane
gloss for Christmas.
I wonder whether that's the tag.
What do you think?
Did you already have a tag where we were telling you off?
No, but I think that the missy that like it needs to end with, oh
you know, it's just obviously just missing.
I do like her piano playing.
Yeah, that's awesome too. when she finds out that...
And I really like the fact that Parvel likes classical music.
Yeah.
And the wood lights.
But it has to be, can I say, it has to be someone with an Eastern
European name to like classical music.
Otherwise, they'd be... intolerable.
Exactly.
Actually, I have found the music from the teaser and that's going
to be our...
It's a real song, I realise.
No, no, no, no.
Oh, you mean with parble?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is a real piece of music.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, the song from the beginning is Little Mix.
It's the people that Bill is embarrassed.
Oh, right, I don't.
I don't know who that is.
I don't either. popping into music.
That makes just a bunch of young people who get killed.
Exactly.
Well, what do you think?
How long have we gone for?
Do you know 51?
I think we've gone for long enough.
Do you remember back in the day, like our episode on 42 is
literally 42 minutes and 0 seconds long?
That was deliberate.
Yeah, I know, but it was conceivable that we do a 42 minute
episode.
Yes, whereas now then, some might say...
Some might say that 42 was 42 minutes too long.
Yeah, terrible.
Could I just mention something that can go back in the horror
discussion?
Yeah.
Oh, my God.
The noise in the walls.
There is one other horror film that may be being somewhat emulated
here, but perhaps not consciously or even desirably.
Has anyone ever heard of the film Deathbed, The Bed That Eats?
I confess I have not.
No.
I've stayed in some hotels which...
So it's a 1977 horror film.
And I'll just read you the start of the plot summary from
Wikipedia.
In 1897, a demon fell in love with a woman and conjured up a bed
onto which on which to make love to her.
The woman died, and in his grief the demon wept tears of blood
which fell on the bed and brought it to life.
When the demon is awake, the bed's evil runs rampant, as it
physically eats human beings every 10 years, when the demon sleeps
and it is left dormant until it awakes once more.
Only one man, an artist, was spared, as the bed condemned him to
immortality behind a painting, where he must forever witness the
bed, taking victims.
And then there's 4 vignettes in the film, which contrived to get
various people to fall asleep on this bed, after which they are
eaten.
So it doesn't chase you.
Like, it doesn't chase you down the corridor or anything.
No you have to get onto it.
Goodness, I must watch that film, never.
It's, I've seen it. really bad.
You astound me.
Oh, dear.
I think that takes us out to the next...
That's perfect.
All right.
Well, we might wind up.
I'll go for one of my patented quick weed.
I just had a message... saying she's arrived at the station.
Okay, so you go and pick her up.
I'll let you out.
I'll do a wee, we'll do a whole thing, and then we have Cade at
the at the thing.
Okay.
All right.
Thank you, Brandon.
I'm going to Bradstock.
Thank you, chat.
Send me the suit.
Send me the audio.
I will.
Okay.
All right.
See you, sweetheart.
Bye.