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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:58:29

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast which lives merely to increase capital, and is allowed to live only insofar as the interest of the ruling class requires it.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Peter.

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I'm Simon.

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And I'm Kate.

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Well, this week we're being pursued by zombies while the people at head office find lethal new ways of increasing our productivity.

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Is it just a normal week at work or a dystopian Doctor Who satire called oxygen?

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I think I had a bit of a reverse todd experience on this one.

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A reverse to experience.

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And a reverse to experience.

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You like it the first time round.

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Stop experience.

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No, I thought that this was going to be better than it was when I just recently watched it.

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It's Jamie Matheson, who I think is amazing, and I've liked all his things.

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I think I'm the only person on record to enjoy the girl who died.

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I think it's fantastic.

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I think basically, you know, everything that he's done has been really good.

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Um, and maybe it's not his fault.

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But for some reason, and I'm trying to put my finger on it.

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I hope we'll be able to do that in the next hour or so.

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I'm not quite sure this worked for me.

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I adore the entire season that has Bill and I have 2 favourites and they are oxygen and extremers.

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Oh, snap.

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Yes.

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Oxygen I love because it's like, it's like pure science fiction. something that you almost never get in Doctor Who.

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And this is what the whole story is about.

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Space is usually just a backdrop where, oh, look, we're on a spaceship, yeah, whatever.

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And we are not really interested in the fact that we're on a spaceship, we're interested in whatever else is going on.

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But this one starts with a speech about space wants to kill you.

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If you go into space, space is incredibly dangerous and then it proceeds to demonstrate this by repeatedly killing Bill.

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And yeah, we get a big lecture at the start about how Bill will be killed.

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That tortured season 5 story.

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They keep killing Bill.

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It's a bit like that.

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So, um, I love the fact that it is basically SF because of the rarity of that in Doctor Who.

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I mean, I love it when Doctor Who mixes science fiction with all other genres as well.

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For me, it's like getting a little chocolate.

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Um, in that it doesn't have anything else in it.

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It is just about spacesuits and vacuum and the vacuum of space.

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I think that was the brief from Stephen Mothat that he just wanted to make space dangerous again.

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There'd be too much sort of mucking around in space.

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And so he said to Jamie Matheson, so I interviewed Jamie Matheson for Doctor Magazine about this episode and did the preview for it.

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And so that's why the opening is all preoccupied with Space is Deadly.

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Space wants to kill you.

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And actually, Stephen Motha was the one who injected the idea that the suits would be the villain, as it was originally just a sort of a space zombie story, with zombies tramping around.

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He said, no, let's make it the suits, the suits are the thing that are animating these cadavers and are the enemy.

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I guess I guess for me, the problem is that the production can't quite do what the premise kind of needs it to do.

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Because we start sort of with that opening scene with the couple on the girder and you've got her sound isn't working and you've got the body sort of rolling towards them and stuff like that.

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And it looks like it's sort of promising gravity, I think.

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And there was some talk about gravity, like trying to make, you know, the film.

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And I think that's quite well realised.

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It's a great, in space, no one can hear you scream.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And in fact, it's quite good because there's a sort of fake out scream and then there's his final scream leading into the into the opening. we always love.

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It's really good.

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I think that is quite good But when we arrive, we're kind of pretty immediately just in the usual space corridors.

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And there's a really telling moment where Bill, who is always the sort of genre busting character says, oh, you know, this is just not really spicy.

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And then she looks out a window.

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And we don't see what she sees because obviously she's just looking out a window.

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Do you know what I mean?

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But we get the big pull back, you know, with her face and then the entirety of that station.

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And so it makes fun of Star Trek explicitly.

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Do you know what I mean?

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With the whoosh whoosh doors and stuff.

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Oh, yes.

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But it's a little bit too like Star Trek.

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And for a story where the premise is that oxygen has been rationed, that there's artificial scarcity of oxygen, it never looks like that, because they've got invisible force fields on, because I think what must have happened is the intention must have been that they would wear the helmets all the time.

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And then they realised that they realised that would be the top. never works.

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No that would never work.

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And you can see the helmets are designed.

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They're much more transparent than a normal space helmet.

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And I think they're designed to be as unobtrusive as possible.

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They should have gone for that full sort of upturned fishbowl effect.

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Yeah, yeah, the moonbags, where they just had a pee.

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Maybe the ones from terminus, but they don't actually seal around the net.

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Yes, for example.

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Yeah, so and so they're just sort of wandering around talking as usual and stuff.

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And so it's not quite enough unlike other Doctor Who stories set on spaceships, I think.

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Do you feel that the lack of the helmet lends a kind of vulnerability to the characters?

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Yes, I do.

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What about hair raising, even though you know they have the force field?

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They're walking around without the helmet and then they must put the helmet on and of course it pays off in Bill's exciting journey into vacuum.

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It's funny, I did that this morning.

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Just the living room.

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How can that can be an exciting journey?

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Like I guess so.

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But I just think that because the lack of oxygen isn't sold to us visually.

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We're just told about it because it just looks like everyone's wandering around with no helmets on talking to one another and being able to hear one another and all of that.

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Like there's just no visual evidence.

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You know, straight away, oh, we've got artificial gravity.

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Oh, we've got invisible force fields that keep the air in.

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And so all of the really scary spaceness can't be realised and was never going to be able to be realised.

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I'm going to agree with Kate on that.

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I think it's actually a little bit unnerving, the fact that they're wandering around this Ellis environment and they don't have physical helmet on and you think that at any point this could turn off and all of a sudden they can't breathe.

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I found that quite eerie.

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I don't mind either way, actually, because I see what you're saying, Nathan, but I also, I don't kind of get what you guys are saying either, Kate and Peter, because it's like the web planet where they go out with the jacket sock.

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Like, it's just a kind of a conceit at the beginning and then you kind of forget about it.

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It's really...

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Exactly.

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We're never made we're never not made aware of the fact that they're in this confined space station and there's a limited supply of oxygen.

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And I think that's the kind of the underlying thing.

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I think the story, the episode has a series of other flaws, even though it has that great promising staff, and I think there's much of it which is really nicely made.

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I know, Nathan, you're never a fan of the idea that, oh, this is a very ordinary or poor episode.

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I know let's make it better by making it longer.

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But I actually think it could be.

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War games.

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I think that this is a case where it could work.

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I don't mean just stretching it out to 2 episodes, but I'm never excited by all the kind of breathless running through corridors.

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It's like that does.

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I mean, I want people talking urgently in corridors rather than just running through corridors.

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And there's no setup.

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I don't feel there's enough of a setup.

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Like, if it was an old style, the length of an old style 3 or 4 passer, and the doctor in Bill Nardo arrived on this space station where there'd been a couple of deaths, and there was a couple of malfunctions with the suits, and they didn't know what was going on, but it was still basically a populated space station, and they all started being picked off over the course of it.

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And then in the last sort of 30, 40 minutes, you then get what is effectively this episode, I'd have had much more engagement with it.

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I'd have cared.

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My problem with it is I just don't care.

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All this stuff is happening and I'm just not that interested.

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It's a symptom of modern Doctor Who, isn't it?

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They always cut off the 1st episode of an old 4 parter, and so you arrive somewhere into events rather than at the start of the week. which can work really well sometimes, and there are some great examples of that where it just is, you can do a 45 minute self-contained episode, and it works perfectly.

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And I've said that, but this is just one of those ones where, because I haven't had that buildup with the characters.

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I'm just not invested with what's going on.

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The only one I was invested in was dah, Ren, oh, how...

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Yes, which I've just racistly pronounced in.

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We don't categorise people by the box.

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So that was nice.

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He's the 1st of 2 blue people this season.

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And the other blue person is in World Enough and Time, and his name is George, but pronounced in a space way. and spelled in a space, right?

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Has he got an apostrophe in it?

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I really wish it had.

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It's just got J's in it.

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So they're kind of, and they're not human, I think, is the idea.

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But that little moment, I think, is actually really wonderful, where Bill gets to be racist.

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And then she goes, I'm sorry, I'm normally on the receiving end and he can't understand why that would be.

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I think that's just terrific.

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Yeah, it's like it's like this Australian immigrant experience.

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Like, you know, 1st of all, we're nasty about the Greeks and the Italians.

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Then we're nasty about the Vietnamese and Chinese and now we're nasty about people of Middle Eastern Norwich. you know what I mean?

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It's that kind of thing.

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It's when the new species comes or the new race comes along, all the others are suddenly accepted.

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Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. right.

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They establishment.

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That's the establishment.

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Yes they've become the establishment.

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They join in with us.

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Yes, exactly.

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And I love that they wait for a comedy beat till the end of that scene for Nadal to throw in some of my best friends are blue.

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No, it's better than that.

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He says some of my best friends are blueish.

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It's a nice way of viewing it.

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Oh, it's so awkward.

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I think that actually, I understand what everyone's saying. have quite a high opinion of this episode.

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I think it is dripping in atmosphere, which, you know, you wouldn't think being in a vacuum, but yes, it is dripping in atmosphere, and I think that is its own reward.

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I think if you can set something up that has so much of an unsettling feel to it.

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Go for it.

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Yeah, yeah, that can often sell something for me, but for some reason, as I said, I just don't care.

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Like, it's atmosphere for the sake of atmosphere. not feeling it.

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Something I want to talk about is the skull.

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The skull.

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Oh, and the chalk.

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Oh, the skull is an image that appears throughout this entire episode in different ways.

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We get the doctor drawing a skull on the board, right?

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That's a big obvious skull, but those helmets that they're not wearing, and in particular, the one that pops off the guy to reveal that there's nobody inside the suit, that's a skull.

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Bill is wearing a little skull patch that says, wow, next to it.

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Wow.

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Which is a little bit like saying, yeah, I'm excited.

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Let's go to space as well, you know, where all the skulls are because everybody dies.

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The big moment in the cold open where Ivan sees the helmet just sort of coming to shop.

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Here's her scarf.

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Yeah, so good.

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And that just that image of the head or the dead head or whatever just keeps picking up again and again all through it, which gave me the creeps when I began to notice it.

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When they go, oh no, they're going to vent all of the oxygen that we've got out of the spaceship, we must run back to the TARDAS.

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The shot is actually over the top of that helmet that's been popped off the guy, as though to say death. is coming.

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And I thought, that's jolly clever, isn't it?

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It's such a good image as well.

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They've been to this well before in Stephen Moffat's silence in the library, which is skullheads in Spaces. yes, yes.

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I want to compare it briefly to sleep no more. favourably, I hope.

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Unfavourably.

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So one of the things that struck me, and it's a thing that Simon said about sleep no more is the kind of strange world building, that sleep no more does.

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And like we're around Neptune.

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It seems to be like, perhaps we're moving out towards Pluto just in time to do the sun.

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And everything, like something has happened to the inner solar system and people are awful.

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Like we genetically engineer kind of soldier slaves and stuff and just generally something has gone horribly wrong and it's subtle world building.

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And there's a word.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, it's, but there's, like there isn't any of that here.

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No.

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I think the world, and that's one of the reasons why I really like sleep no more, even though it's not perfect over this, which is not terrible, if I can put it in those terms, but sleep no more, I think, does a much better job at creating a dystopian future.

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And I think the dystopian future that's created in this episode has far less depth.

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It's far more trite in terms of the sort of the various anti-capitalist kind of mentions that are made.

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It's a bit like, oh, really?

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I mean, that's just, can we think a bit more about this and just make it a bit more interesting if you want to sell that message?

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Because that's not coming through.

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Sleep no more does it so much better, I think.

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And it has a sort of anti-capitalist message as well.

195
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I mean, the problem is created by monetising work as sleeve.

196
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Yes, I know.

197
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But it doesn't, but for me, that doesn't irritate me in the same way that this irritates me.

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It just seems to be done much more interestingly and much more cleverly.

199
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And also, I think placing it around Neptune.

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Some of those shots in Sleep No More. where, you know, there's a, I think it's a breach, whatever, and you can see Neptune there.

201
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It's when the station's starting to fall into Neptune at one point, I think.

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So effective and so frightening.

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And that's where you get that thing of space is there to kill you.

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You know, I feel that much more in sleep no more than I do in oxygen.

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The reason that I have a soft spot for sleep no more, even though it's got snot monsters in it.

206
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Um, and it's the science in it, science fiction is incredibly non-scientific.

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So I sit there sort of drumming my fingers a bit.

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But I love the future.

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I like the kind of almost throwaway, quickly referenced world building.

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00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:22.259
You know, I'm a sucker for that kind of thing.

211
00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:25.799
And the fact that it is Neptune and not planet...

212
00:15:25.860 --> 00:15:26.100
Yeah.

213
00:15:26.100 --> 00:15:26.340
Yeah.

214
00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:26.879
Yeah, exactly.

215
00:15:26.940 --> 00:15:27.899
And that's what's missing here.

216
00:15:27.960 --> 00:15:29.399
Yeah, this isn't anywhere.

217
00:15:29.460 --> 00:15:31.080
They're mining somehow.

218
00:15:31.139 --> 00:15:35.039
It's fine. mining some asteroid, could be astroid. could be another solar system. doesn't matter.

219
00:15:35.100 --> 00:15:37.679
And I don't think I don't think it's the fact that it's not Neptune is the problem.

220
00:15:37.740 --> 00:15:50.820
It's just the fact that I don't feel, I don't, I can't imagine what the society is out there back on earth back in civilisation, which has created this situation where the company has made the suits kill the workers.

221
00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:54.960
Whereas I can in sleep no more, imagine what the rest of the world.

222
00:15:55.019 --> 00:15:56.399
What's happening in the universe?

223
00:15:56.460 --> 00:16:10.679
And I know what you mean, because sleep and what, even though I don't think it's a very good episode, ties into kind of a larger arc of doctors, so to speak, of Doctor Who's future and like what the future is like in the show, whereas this feels like a little bit like its own thing and sort of a cul-de-sac, I think.

224
00:16:10.740 --> 00:16:13.500
And that's because Margatus, as well, writes, sleep no more.

225
00:16:13.559 --> 00:16:14.519
And he's concerned with that kind of thing.

226
00:16:14.580 --> 00:16:21.120
It's like in Empress of Mars coming up where he takes care to kind of weave that into a future which has the Galactic Federation and Alpha Centauri.

227
00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:28.799
Yeah, and I don't think every Doctor Who story needs to do that because the reason that we've got that now is stories that didn't do that.

228
00:16:28.860 --> 00:16:29.759
Do you know what I mean?

229
00:16:29.820 --> 00:16:32.940
So all of that's okay, I think.

230
00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:34.860
But it is so thin.

231
00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:36.360
And when it comes to the resolution.

232
00:16:36.419 --> 00:16:43.799
I mean, if we could just go to head office and complain and that would bring down capitalism, I don't know why we haven't done that already, honestly.

233
00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:48.960
All that, and that's what I'm sort of talking about is just so inelegant.

234
00:16:49.019 --> 00:16:53.279
It's like, for instance, the oxygen thing.

235
00:16:53.340 --> 00:16:57.360
It doesn't make sense that the company would vent the oxygen, which is a precious resource.

236
00:16:57.419 --> 00:16:59.279
They would pump it back into their storage tanks.

237
00:16:59.340 --> 00:17:01.259
They take it so that they can sell it.

238
00:17:01.320 --> 00:17:07.380
It doesn't make sense that the company would kill the workers because they're consuming oxygen.

239
00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:09.180
They've only got so many breaths left or whatever it is.

240
00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:21.180
It makes more sense, surely, if if they're just charged for it in that sun makers kind of way, where, 0 my god, I'm just going to be absolutely up to my eyeballs in debt because of the number of breaths I've taken and I will never escape it.

241
00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:22.680
And that's that's got a much...

242
00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:24.240
I can't retire because I breathe too much.

243
00:17:24.299 --> 00:17:25.680
Yes, sort of.

244
00:17:25.740 --> 00:17:31.380
And I think there's something about that which is far more, I think, the message that they want to tell, whereas this is just kind of trite.

245
00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:32.519
Oh, big companies are evil.

246
00:17:32.579 --> 00:17:33.000
Ha ha ha.

247
00:17:33.059 --> 00:17:34.680
It just kind of like, oh come on, we can do better than that.

248
00:17:34.740 --> 00:17:40.440
A thing that doesn't make any sense is the reason that they want to kill off the workers is that they've been unproductive.

249
00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:43.019
Like they can't be productive because of things broken.

250
00:17:43.079 --> 00:17:45.720
Because the conveyor's broken. doesn't make any sense at all.

251
00:17:45.779 --> 00:17:47.700
They would be perfectly productive.

252
00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:52.980
If the conveyor was working, Why would you kill off the... they're killing off those guys because they're the next ship that's coming.

253
00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:56.099
Well, the next is going to it's surely got the conveyor repair.

254
00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:58.859
Well, no, I assume they're sending the conveyor repair people.

255
00:17:58.920 --> 00:18:03.240
I thought that they were just sending suits that didn't have to consume oxygen.

256
00:18:03.299 --> 00:18:04.140
Do you know what I mean?

257
00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:05.039
Possibly.

258
00:18:05.099 --> 00:18:06.059
Yes, maybe they've decided that.

259
00:18:06.119 --> 00:18:08.640
But if you think about the way a company works.

260
00:18:08.700 --> 00:18:17.940
I mean, for most of my adult life, and I'm fine, just a second, I have been, you know, like, are you that old?

261
00:18:18.420 --> 00:18:27.059
No, I just mean, like most people, I'm, you know, 2 missed paycheques away from sort of starvation and homelessness.

262
00:18:27.119 --> 00:18:28.019
Do you know what I mean?

263
00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:29.819
Like most people.

264
00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:30.720
Yeah, I'm fine.

265
00:18:31.259 --> 00:18:33.900
But, but do you know what I mean?

266
00:18:34.019 --> 00:18:38.640
Like, people live without... savings, you know, all of that sort of thing.

267
00:18:38.700 --> 00:18:51.900
And so the idea that finding a branch somewhere is unprofitable and just closing it down does in fact does happen and does lead to kind of misery and stuff like that.

268
00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:54.299
And here, obviously, it sort of amped up.

269
00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:56.880
And, you know, like I did a little bit of research.

270
00:18:56.940 --> 00:19:00.599
How are they charging people for oxygen to do their job.

271
00:19:00.660 --> 00:19:02.279
In New South Wales.

272
00:19:02.339 --> 00:19:17.279
The only reason that, for instance, that it's government regulation and union involvement, that means, for instance, that retail workers don't have to pay for their own uniforms and that we would have had that if there hadn't been some kind of intervention.

273
00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:28.019
And so, you know, the idea that that's a, the, that is the usual Doctor Who thing where we heightened that and we, we turned it into killing the workers. you know what I mean?

274
00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:34.140
Because with 100s of years into the future and capitalism has got worse and worse and we want to make a point in a sort of obvious way.

275
00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:41.519
And it also gives the doctor a resolution where he just makes the base profitable or not profitable.

276
00:19:41.579 --> 00:19:43.859
He makes destroying the best. destroying them.

277
00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:45.660
Yeah, he makes killing them unprofitable.

278
00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:46.259
That's right.

279
00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:46.859
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

280
00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:48.599
No, I know what you're saying.

281
00:19:48.660 --> 00:19:50.339
And you know, when you create a dystopian future.

282
00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:52.740
Usually you're trying to make a comment on the present.

283
00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:53.700
Yes, okay.

284
00:19:53.759 --> 00:20:01.259
And whilst, yes, you know, companies are closing things here and there from time to time and people lose jobs and that's all full, et cetera, et cetera.

285
00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:08.700
But it's like the way they're doing it here isn't sort of, isn't really talking to that in the way that I think it could be, if that's what it's trying to do.

286
00:20:08.759 --> 00:20:23.640
I think it's just it's just got a very simplistic notion and I'm fine with the idea of, okay, we're creating this dystopian future where capitalism has regressed to, you know, the way it was in the 19th century where workers were paid next to nothing and had to pay for their own uniforms and had to work 18 hour days, whatever it is.

287
00:20:23.700 --> 00:20:25.079
I don't have a problem with that.

288
00:20:25.140 --> 00:20:29.279
I just think it's to do with the elegance of how these things are done and I think it's just so inelegant.

289
00:20:29.339 --> 00:20:37.380
I think there's actually a better story that can be told with the suits killing people, but I wonder whether we weren't actually able to tell it when this was made and I can talk about that if you like.

290
00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:39.119
Go on.

291
00:20:39.180 --> 00:20:39.539
Okay.

292
00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:40.680
AI.

293
00:20:40.740 --> 00:20:45.480
If this if this episode was made now, it would be because the suits, it's like the paper clip thing.

294
00:20:45.539 --> 00:20:54.000
You know, if you tell if you tell an AI to make as many paper clips as it can, it ends up turning the entire earth into paper clips, including all the humans, right?

295
00:20:54.059 --> 00:21:00.359
It's that thing of, you know, you need to have a restraint on the AI to say, well, don't kill any people and don't do this and don't do that, et cetera, et cetera.

296
00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:09.839
So in some respects, you could create an episode around the paper clip problem where the suits have got AI in them to try and be more efficient with the mining operation.

297
00:21:09.900 --> 00:21:21.539
And at some point, the suits realise I'm going to be able to do this a hell of a lot better and more efficiently if I don't have a human to worry about because they have to take rests and they have to sleep and they have to eat and so on like that.

298
00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:42.000
And maybe you could have them in the company, the sort of company not having bothered to insert the algorithm to the AI to, because someone was bored that day or they forgot to, they knew about it, but they hadn't done anything about it, which actually would be a far better commentary on current society in terms of companies, either wilfully or neglectfully making mistakes like that.

299
00:21:42.059 --> 00:21:44.279
Oh, Simon, what you're describing is this.

300
00:21:44.339 --> 00:21:46.079
They put humans into the suits.

301
00:21:46.140 --> 00:21:50.579
At 1st it looks like the humans are the workers and the suits are just helped for them. but they've got the AI.

302
00:21:50.759 --> 00:21:53.759
Humans are training their AI to do their job.

303
00:21:53.819 --> 00:21:55.619
Yes, the humans are the restraint.

304
00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:56.640
Yes, yes, yes.

305
00:21:56.759 --> 00:22:01.440
And so in the end, the AI finally works out how to mine an asteroid and says, well, that's you, mate.

306
00:22:01.500 --> 00:22:01.680
Sorry.

307
00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:02.160
Exactly.

308
00:22:02.220 --> 00:22:03.480
And that's...

309
00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:04.140
That's a bad story.

310
00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:06.660
Now I don't think we were thinking about that when this episode was being made.

311
00:22:06.660 --> 00:22:07.980
No, because this is actually very new.

312
00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:10.859
AI is actually literally mentioned in the script.

313
00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:17.519
We get asked what's the AI like and someone says it's as dumb as a rock and then, well, can it learn?

314
00:22:17.579 --> 00:22:18.660
Do you know what I mean?

315
00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:20.579
So there is some sort of talk about that.

316
00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:31.019
Like, I don't know quite what's happening with Bill where her suit does its own thing, that sort of terrifying moment where it takes her helmet off and she's saying, I'm not doing that.

317
00:22:31.079 --> 00:22:36.420
And that's when I was thinking about this, actually, during that sequence, because I thought that's the thing that's the most frightening moment for me.

318
00:22:36.660 --> 00:22:41.099
And then if I can just give a shout out to the sequence that follows that, which is utterly brilliant.

319
00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:41.460
I think.

320
00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:42.299
Oh, that's good.

321
00:22:42.299 --> 00:22:43.500
Incredible.

322
00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:44.700
Absolutely incredible.

323
00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:49.500
Full of 1st the blurry bit and then the moment where the doctor turns around.

324
00:22:49.559 --> 00:22:51.359
I just about fell off the sofa.

325
00:22:51.420 --> 00:22:54.299
And the sound design, which is immaculate throughout this episode.

326
00:22:54.359 --> 00:22:54.900
Exactly, yeah.

327
00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:56.039
Although I would have liked more silence.

328
00:22:56.099 --> 00:22:57.059
Yes, me too.

329
00:22:57.119 --> 00:23:07.920
Again, if you're trying to sell, there's that moment, even in the opening thing where you're outside, you can hear Ellie speaking inside her helmet and it's kind of you're trying to sell us that there's no oxygen here.

330
00:23:07.980 --> 00:23:12.420
And I know, I know I'm not an idiot, like I want spaceships to whoosh through.

331
00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:14.339
We all do.

332
00:23:15.059 --> 00:23:26.400
But here, you know, it's so much the point of the episode is the scarcity of oxygen and the deliberate artificial scarcity of oxygen, which is used to up its price.

333
00:23:26.460 --> 00:23:32.339
You know, the way that people in company towns had to buy things from the company store. exactly.

334
00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:41.279
You know, like all of that's so important to what the things trying to say in the atmosphere, it's trying to create, and that's just another thing where I think it falls down a bit.

335
00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:45.359
It's me against the world here.

336
00:23:45.420 --> 00:23:46.079
I agree with you.

337
00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:50.819
I don't dislike it. as I was saying, last week in knock, knock.

338
00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:56.700
Well, for me, I didn't think I made it clearly last week, but I think now this is the 4th episode in a row, which is, for me, it's fine.

339
00:23:56.759 --> 00:24:12.119
Again, it's the 4th episode in a row, which is annoyingly slightly less than fine, might be a better way of putting it because it could be better with a little bit more thought and a little bit more draft and there's so much effort that's gone into it and well, perhaps I'm like knock knock last week, which wasn't brilliantly made.

340
00:24:12.180 --> 00:24:12.779
We were talking about.

341
00:24:12.839 --> 00:24:23.220
But this is obviously really well made and I've thought about that, but I don't think they've just thought about properly about the episode, the story, the how does this actually work?

342
00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:25.380
And I think that's what makes it unsatisfactory for me.

343
00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:27.960
Yes, I think this is extremely well made.

344
00:24:28.019 --> 00:24:30.240
This is Charles Palmer who did human nature.

345
00:24:30.299 --> 00:24:35.940
And one of his tricks on human nature, the reason that human nature looks so great is a lot of the effects are in camera.

346
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:38.579
So there's not a lot of kind of CGI there.

347
00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:42.480
And I think the same, apart from the bits which are obviously have to be CGI in this.

348
00:24:42.539 --> 00:24:47.220
You get a lot of stuff which seems to be practically realised on the set, and I think that lends it a real immediacy.

349
00:24:47.819 --> 00:24:54.660
Space suits and things are very chunky and clunky and you really need that feeling of hard metal.

350
00:24:54.779 --> 00:24:55.980
That's right.

351
00:24:56.039 --> 00:24:59.880
They are a bit rubbery, though, so the mag, so they?

352
00:25:00.299 --> 00:25:02.579
But they're not a bit fakey.

353
00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:05.099
It's funny.

354
00:25:05.160 --> 00:25:07.200
All I could think about was 1st contact.

355
00:25:07.259 --> 00:25:10.079
You know, we had like seven.

356
00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:16.319
Like we have 7 years of Star Trek, The Next Generation, and no one puts a spacesuit on as far as I...

357
00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:25.440
So suddenly we're walking on the outside of the enterprise and we have scenes, you know, Zed, and say walk on the deflected dish and stuff like that.

358
00:25:25.500 --> 00:25:27.000
And it's really good.

359
00:25:27.059 --> 00:25:29.339
Like, that's actually really sort of terrific.

360
00:25:29.400 --> 00:25:33.720
And Doctor Who has more space suits in it, of course, than Star Trek did.

361
00:25:33.779 --> 00:25:36.660
Do you miss the old baggy orange ones?

362
00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:37.680
Yeah, bitch.

363
00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:40.500
These were very crisp space suits in oxygen.

364
00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:47.880
They look really like, you know, the Ferrari of spacesuits rather than like you were wearing a huge orange bag.

365
00:25:47.940 --> 00:25:57.480
I also like the thing where, you know, bizarrely, there are practical lights inside the space helmet shining in the wearer's face, which would be terrible.

366
00:25:57.539 --> 00:25:58.859
I think...

367
00:25:58.859 --> 00:26:01.200
You're real alive.

368
00:26:01.259 --> 00:26:02.460
But it always looks so great.

369
00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:05.160
You know, like how do they stop them fogging up?

370
00:26:05.819 --> 00:26:13.259
That hilarious thing with not toll where Bill says what happens if I throw up in my space helmet doing her usual thing.

371
00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:14.940
And he just says colour and smell.

372
00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:17.039
Colour and smell.

373
00:26:32.099 --> 00:26:34.559
Can we talk about Nardole?

374
00:26:34.619 --> 00:26:36.779
So this is the first time Nard Doll join?

375
00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:38.039
Yes, actually gets to go too.

376
00:26:38.099 --> 00:26:47.339
Yeah, because he's been the killjoy. been the person who's been trying to prevent the doctor from going anywhere and clearly he's just decided that he can't do that or something.

377
00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:48.660
He just fails, doesn't he?

378
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:50.880
The doctor sends him off to Birmingham for British.

379
00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:51.299
Chris.

380
00:26:53.099 --> 00:27:05.880
I like his, he's kind of got a, 2 different faces going in this story where there's the nardol who's going, ooh, all the time and, you know, panicking about things and worrying about things.

381
00:27:05.880 --> 00:27:08.039
And, you know, we're going back to the TARDIS type of stuff.

382
00:27:08.039 --> 00:27:12.180
But there's also the nardol who says very quietly, I'm a bit cross with you, doctor.

383
00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:14.460
And you actually think, oh, that's a bit frightening.

384
00:27:14.579 --> 00:27:17.400
Yeah, this is where, yeah, and I remember the 1st time around.

385
00:27:17.460 --> 00:27:21.900
This is, it was only about now that I started thinking, okay, this is now working.

386
00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:27.960
I can like this because I was annoyed by the kind of, this is just one of those stupid comic relief characters.

387
00:27:28.019 --> 00:27:33.900
I really liked his way of trying to get them back to the Tatas, which is a really not always.

388
00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:34.799
It was absolutely perfect.

389
00:27:34.859 --> 00:27:36.539
You know, it's nice and cosy.

390
00:27:36.720 --> 00:27:41.279
It's nice Like, I thought that worked really well.

391
00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:43.079
And it was him doing the companion.

392
00:27:43.140 --> 00:27:45.359
Let's go back to Thitis, and then Bill agrees with him.

393
00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:48.960
And he had always been at a remove from Bill.

394
00:27:49.019 --> 00:27:52.140
You know, like he would always talk to the doctor when Bill was in the room.

395
00:27:52.140 --> 00:27:53.099
Almost as if she wasn't there.

396
00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:54.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

397
00:27:54.059 --> 00:28:01.859
We see it in full flourish next week in Extremist where suddenly Bill and Nardol have lots of scenes together and are friends and it's a really great odd coupling.

398
00:28:01.859 --> 00:28:02.700
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

399
00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:07.559
And isn't that so much more rewarding when they've had a period of not really being like that.

400
00:28:07.619 --> 00:28:09.660
Like they're not just friends from day one.

401
00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:10.559
Yeah they've grown together.

402
00:28:10.619 --> 00:28:19.500
I think, like most comedians, Matt Lucas, his dramatic talents are underused in Docsuit because he is mostly light relief as Nardol, but he can do a lot with his face.

403
00:28:19.559 --> 00:28:29.819
And so that scene where Bill can't breathe and you're having all of those sort of slow motion looks, but you get one big close-up of him in his helmet looking at her with concern.

404
00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:31.259
And it's an amazing shot.

405
00:28:31.319 --> 00:28:34.859
It's completely written all over his face and that proves his value, I think.

406
00:28:34.980 --> 00:28:37.740
Comedians are often the best actors.

407
00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:38.579
Yes.

408
00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:40.799
It's an awful lot of examples of that, yeah.

409
00:28:40.859 --> 00:28:41.880
See, Catherine Tate.

410
00:28:41.940 --> 00:28:42.720
See, Catherine Tate.

411
00:28:42.779 --> 00:28:43.500
See Catherine Tate.

412
00:28:43.559 --> 00:28:46.500
But see, also, I can't think of any other...

413
00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:49.079
Robin Williams, for example, yeah, it's a very good example, yeah.

414
00:28:49.140 --> 00:28:51.000
They're known for comedy at first.

415
00:28:51.059 --> 00:28:54.299
And then suddenly they do that film and all that television and you go, yes.

416
00:28:54.359 --> 00:28:57.299
Because they're delivering dramatic performances, but being funny.

417
00:28:57.359 --> 00:28:58.019
Yeah.

418
00:28:58.019 --> 00:29:06.000
And the thing about a successful comedian is they know about timing and timing is underrated in dramatic performance as well.

419
00:29:06.059 --> 00:29:14.819
And I think too often, especially in modern television, in film, everyone's especially in this kind of genre, everyone's just in a rush to get their lines out.

420
00:29:14.940 --> 00:29:17.400
We said it about David Suchet last episode.

421
00:29:17.460 --> 00:29:20.339
He just knows exactly what and how to place words.

422
00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:20.640
Yeah.

423
00:29:20.700 --> 00:29:28.980
Yeah, I mean, we we kind of spoke about how Nadol doesn't really fit properly into the sort of list of Doctor Who companions.

424
00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:33.359
You know, he's not really quite...

425
00:29:33.420 --> 00:29:37.859
He is in the opening credits, and he does travel with a doctor more than once, and all of those.

426
00:29:37.859 --> 00:29:40.259
Also, somewhere between a Sarah Kingdom and a Sergeant Benton.

427
00:29:40.319 --> 00:29:44.579
Yeah, he's above Sergeant Benton, surely.

428
00:29:44.819 --> 00:29:47.640
That means he's above Mike, yeah, it's right.

429
00:29:47.700 --> 00:29:48.180
Oh, yes.

430
00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:49.259
Yeah, yeah, definitely above.

431
00:29:49.259 --> 00:29:51.539
I would have thought most people would be above my kids.

432
00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:52.200
Oh okay.

433
00:29:52.740 --> 00:29:55.680
Sorry, on top of my face.

434
00:29:58.740 --> 00:30:00.779
He's no longer with a snerl's going to suit.

435
00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:02.819
But delighted.

436
00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:06.599
You know, he does get a proper kind of a rival.

437
00:30:06.660 --> 00:30:08.400
We never see him agree to join the doctor.

438
00:30:08.460 --> 00:30:15.839
All of that sort of, we start with this sort of pre-existing relationship. that's been going on for decades, you know, like 50, 70 years, we believe.

439
00:30:16.380 --> 00:30:19.200
It's like, Mel, just without decades.

440
00:30:19.259 --> 00:30:25.380
So I actually am really enjoying him being sort of brought in and I do think it works really well. it works really well.

441
00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:33.059
And, you know, like Moffatt kind of, you know, there's that story where Hingcliffe kind of regrets getting rid of Harry at the end of...

442
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:33.480
Oh, does he?

443
00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:34.259
I didn't had that.

444
00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:36.059
Yes, because that was his impetus.

445
00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:38.880
And then he realised afterwards after all the episodes have been completed.

446
00:30:38.940 --> 00:30:40.140
Obviously they were scripting the next season.

447
00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:42.900
He thought, oh, actually, they work really well and Ian Marty's great.

448
00:30:42.900 --> 00:30:43.980
Why didn't make it?

449
00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:44.759
That his one big regret.

450
00:30:44.819 --> 00:30:45.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

451
00:30:45.960 --> 00:31:01.140
And then, of course, you've got Amy and Rory, which again works so well. works really well and is Moffatt wanting to recreate that dynamic, I think. you know, which is why you've got the slightly hapless Rory, you know, who's a little bit sort of fumbling.

452
00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:05.460
He's the sort of person who might make a lunge for the helmet regulator or something like that.

453
00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:10.259
And so I think we're trying to do it here a little bit, you know, in a much weirder way.

454
00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:12.240
And I think it works really well.

455
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:17.579
You're always complaining, Simon, that we... as always.

456
00:31:18.539 --> 00:31:20.640
But do you know what I mean, though?

457
00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:21.539
But specifically.

458
00:31:22.680 --> 00:31:28.740
In this case, that we continually have a contemporary companion in the Tartars for the entire ride.

459
00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:29.640
Yes, exactly. series.

460
00:31:29.700 --> 00:31:31.319
Here we don't for the 1st time.

461
00:31:31.380 --> 00:31:32.160
Exactly.

462
00:31:32.220 --> 00:31:33.779
And it's actually really quite fun.

463
00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:35.220
Who'd have thought?

464
00:31:35.279 --> 00:31:36.359
Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah.

465
00:31:36.420 --> 00:31:40.319
And I tend to think by himself, it wouldn't work quite so well.

466
00:31:40.380 --> 00:31:41.279
Oh, no, exactly.

467
00:31:41.339 --> 00:31:43.619
100% You know, like the Velma staff.

468
00:31:43.680 --> 00:31:45.059
That's great. great.

469
00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:48.059
The Velma stuff is the most Doctor Whoey stuff, I think, in the episode.

470
00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:52.619
And one of the things about the episode is it is a little bit gone.

471
00:31:52.740 --> 00:31:54.299
Like it's a bit serious.

472
00:31:54.359 --> 00:32:04.920
And so having him there to talk nonsense about Velma and having, it's a little bit like in sleep no more where you get the, the, uh, you know, the Sandman song.

473
00:32:05.579 --> 00:32:07.500
It's a bit of whimsy, exactly.

474
00:32:07.559 --> 00:32:09.539
Also pleasingly brings to mind Scooby-Doo.

475
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:11.519
I was thinking Chicago, the musical.

476
00:32:12.059 --> 00:32:13.740
You would.

477
00:32:14.220 --> 00:32:15.960
Different worlds.

478
00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:25.259
It's true because is the last time that we had a non-human companion, Turlow?

479
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:26.940
Oh.

480
00:32:26.940 --> 00:32:28.380
Yes.

481
00:32:28.500 --> 00:32:31.619
Not counting any big finish audios in the middle, yeah.

482
00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:33.359
And they sort of bring the same thing.

483
00:32:33.420 --> 00:32:43.559
I mean, obviously Turlo are not or are not similar characters, but they bring that kind of that outside of perspective, weird spiky reactions to things which you just don't get from human companions.

484
00:32:43.619 --> 00:32:45.480
Yeah, no, I think that works.

485
00:32:45.539 --> 00:32:53.880
I mean, I know that you need the relatable companion, but I don't believe that the companion needs to be from the present day and be a human to be relatable.

486
00:32:53.940 --> 00:33:00.420
That's to do with how a character is written rather than the fact that they're from 2024 or 28, 24 or whatever.

487
00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:03.059
Yeah, I mean, I think Zoe, for instance, is perfectly related.

488
00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:04.440
I was just thinking, yes, absolutely.

489
00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:07.019
Oh, Vicky even, you know, Dodo.

490
00:33:07.259 --> 00:33:11.220
But also how much we love Romana, especially the 2nd Romana, yeah.

491
00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:14.880
Yeah, I think the show wants to be a little bit more contemporary.

492
00:33:14.940 --> 00:33:20.700
It doesn't want cultural references like, you know, a flying saucer with Batman at the controls.

493
00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:22.380
Like it wants something...

494
00:33:22.440 --> 00:33:24.660
It's a space rocket with...

495
00:33:24.779 --> 00:33:25.079
Oh really?

496
00:33:25.619 --> 00:33:28.740
Just listen to what he said. even better.

497
00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:33.059
And so that's why we have the contemporary companion.

498
00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:35.039
But, I mean, the doctor can just do that stuff anyway.

499
00:33:35.099 --> 00:33:38.160
He was hung around earth in the early 21st century for a bit.

500
00:33:48.839 --> 00:33:51.059
Thinking about not all.

501
00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:58.019
Also, there's that fantastic final scene, and the script for the episode is up online, officially up online.

502
00:33:58.079 --> 00:34:00.180
So I went to have a read of that.

503
00:34:00.180 --> 00:34:09.420
And what fascinated me was, okay, you get that very serious scene between Nadal and the doctor and he's saying, you know, you shouldn't have gone, you were supposed to go out the vault, da da da da.

504
00:34:09.539 --> 00:34:15.119
And the doctor has that cowed or crushed feeling and he says, I can't look at you.

505
00:34:15.179 --> 00:34:18.539
But the last line is not in the script.

506
00:34:18.599 --> 00:34:20.400
So he says, I can't look at you.

507
00:34:20.460 --> 00:34:22.199
I can't look at anything ever again.

508
00:34:22.260 --> 00:34:27.719
And then they have added the big black screen and I'm still blind.

509
00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:29.280
And I'm, oh, my.

510
00:34:29.340 --> 00:34:30.539
Oh, that's good.

511
00:34:30.539 --> 00:34:31.920
Hair raising.

512
00:34:31.980 --> 00:34:40.260
I actually was wondering watching it, whether because it's black and because it's ADR, did they add it later?

513
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:44.039
I think they thought we have to make this absolutely clear, but also that will frighten them.

514
00:34:44.099 --> 00:34:44.880
Yeah, yeah.

515
00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:46.380
That would have been the fear of God into the mess.

516
00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:47.699
They actually had a black screen in the episode.

517
00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:49.320
Yeah, it went.

518
00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:52.320
Yeah, you never see him say, I'm blind.

519
00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:54.119
I'm still blind.

520
00:34:54.179 --> 00:34:55.800
So what do we think of that?

521
00:34:55.860 --> 00:34:59.400
Like doing that to the doctor. think it's great.

522
00:34:59.460 --> 00:35:00.659
Yeah, I think that is good.

523
00:35:00.780 --> 00:35:03.480
And it's fantastic that it lasts beyond this episode.

524
00:35:03.539 --> 00:35:05.460
If it didn't, it would just be a thing.

525
00:35:05.519 --> 00:35:09.659
It doesn't really matter because we can just weigh the magic wand and he's...

526
00:35:09.659 --> 00:35:10.619
Bit of regeneration energy.

527
00:35:10.679 --> 00:35:14.519
Dr. Crusher has returned us all to normal with her usual skill.

528
00:35:15.659 --> 00:35:17.820
Is that Genesis?

529
00:35:21.179 --> 00:35:23.099
Oh my god.

530
00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:27.659
I like the doctor acting from a position of weakness.

531
00:35:27.719 --> 00:35:30.059
And so I like it whenever it takes something right.

532
00:35:30.119 --> 00:35:35.280
And this, I think, puddler reason I like it is that this has the slightly desperate feel of a regeneration story.

533
00:35:35.340 --> 00:35:41.639
Like things going wrong and big things happening to the doctor that might not be taken back or in this case not taken back for a while.

534
00:35:41.699 --> 00:35:50.699
The one thing that I was a little bit underwhelmed by was the treating of blindness as a terrible disability.

535
00:35:50.760 --> 00:35:52.019
Oh my god, I'm still blind.

536
00:35:52.139 --> 00:35:52.860
Ta-dum.

537
00:35:52.920 --> 00:36:01.980
I think being Doc 2 and being the doctor, he could have incorporated that a little bit more into the doctor's character and shown him, okay, I've lost one of my senses.

538
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:03.539
This is now how I deal with things.

539
00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:04.679
Other things take over.

540
00:36:04.739 --> 00:36:07.079
It's not a disability that will scar you for life.

541
00:36:07.139 --> 00:36:08.820
It's tricky, isn't it?

542
00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:10.380
Oh no, that's a really good point.

543
00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:18.780
If it was going to go on for much longer in the season, You'd want to be him to be talking to some blind people in the story and saying, well, how do you manage?

544
00:36:18.840 --> 00:36:19.920
And they go, well, just like this.

545
00:36:19.980 --> 00:36:21.539
We'll we'll teach you.

546
00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:22.920
I think it's fair enough.

547
00:36:22.980 --> 00:36:28.440
Like, I can see what you're saying, but I think it's possible to get a bit overwrought about those sorts of concerns because...

548
00:36:28.440 --> 00:36:31.380
Just a bit more cleverness, I think, in the way that the doctor handled that.

549
00:36:31.380 --> 00:36:33.239
Maybe, but it would still be if you...

550
00:36:33.239 --> 00:36:34.679
He's very fatalistic about it.

551
00:36:34.679 --> 00:36:35.699
I know, true.

552
00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:42.420
But if you suddenly lost your sight or your hearing or a limb just like that, you would be utterly devastated.

553
00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:43.440
Yes, I would.

554
00:36:43.500 --> 00:36:44.460
I'm not the doctor.

555
00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:45.300
It's different.

556
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:49.860
I know, but I actually think the way he reacts is right because I don't think it's not distress.

557
00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:55.500
It's like we have a problem here because I'm going to take some time to adjust to this and we've got Missy down at the bottom.

558
00:36:55.559 --> 00:36:56.519
I think that was great.

559
00:36:56.579 --> 00:36:59.099
I really liked the way that he handled it within the story.

560
00:36:59.159 --> 00:37:06.179
I thought at the end, the fact that he was so like overwrought by the fact that I'm still blind.

561
00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:07.619
I didn't like that.

562
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:11.340
It felt like he hadn't actually acclimatised to that and wasn't looking towards the future.

563
00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:18.599
No, he hasn't acclimatised to it at this point, that he sued me because it's only that point where, because during the story, they're thinking, oh, yes, we can fix it when we get back to the Tartars.

564
00:37:18.659 --> 00:37:22.679
It's the fact that I have so much responsibility and now I have this disability.

565
00:37:22.739 --> 00:37:24.539
Whatever happened to the lizard's eyes.

566
00:37:24.599 --> 00:37:26.280
We never follow up on that later.

567
00:37:26.340 --> 00:37:28.500
That's true, actually, yes, yes, yes. true.

568
00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:29.400
They're still there.

569
00:37:29.460 --> 00:37:39.480
I feel like to find out the best ways to think about this, to feel about this is we'd have to actually phone up a few blind Doctor Who fans and say, well, how did you respond to it?

570
00:37:39.539 --> 00:37:40.920
How did you feel about it?

571
00:37:40.980 --> 00:37:50.760
Was it maybe exciting that the doctor had to cope with being blind for a couple of episodes or was it an insult or what were all the different kinds of opinions that people had?

572
00:37:50.820 --> 00:38:02.039
I have someone associated with radio who had very poor vision and just recently in the last few months had an accident, which meant that he lost his sight entirely.

573
00:38:02.099 --> 00:38:02.880
Oh, damn.

574
00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:13.500
And let's just say that even though he was, let's just say, barely seeing before that, and then suddenly he can't, and there may yet be something that can be done, and I think there's still some hope.

575
00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:18.000
But basically for, for, that was it, right?

576
00:38:18.059 --> 00:38:22.500
And let's just say it is a massive shock and massive impact.

577
00:38:22.500 --> 00:38:24.840
And I think that it takes a lot of adjustment.

578
00:38:24.900 --> 00:38:30.719
Even if you're coming from a point of, I'm almost blind anyway, but there is a big difference.

579
00:38:30.780 --> 00:38:32.280
There was a big difference.

580
00:38:32.340 --> 00:38:36.539
I think, as ever, you need Stephen Moth to write these things really properly.

581
00:38:36.539 --> 00:38:38.159
And in the next episode, extremists.

582
00:38:38.219 --> 00:38:40.800
I think he handles the doctor's blindness extremely well.

583
00:38:40.860 --> 00:38:49.739
The doctor goes through the story, doing doctorish things, and being the doctor that we know and being clever, but being slightly hamstrung by what's happened to him, being frustrated about that.

584
00:38:49.800 --> 00:38:51.300
I think that sort of gets it rise.

585
00:38:51.360 --> 00:38:53.579
It's a very strange choice.

586
00:38:53.639 --> 00:38:55.260
It's such an odd thing to do.

587
00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:57.420
It's something the Doctor Who really never does.

588
00:38:57.480 --> 00:39:09.059
And in a way, it's like a subset, it's like a small scale version of the season as a whole where this season tells a particular story about a period in the doctor's life.

589
00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:15.300
You know, like the unit era where, you know, the doctor's life doesn't tend to have a shape.

590
00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:17.880
He just goes from place to place to place to place.

591
00:39:17.940 --> 00:39:20.880
You know, but here he stops for 70 years.

592
00:39:20.940 --> 00:39:24.000
He lives in this thing he has a job to do.

593
00:39:24.059 --> 00:39:27.059
It's preventing him from doing his usual staff.

594
00:39:27.179 --> 00:39:39.420
And so there's a shape to this season, which is maybe the most successful arc that the show has had in the modern era.

595
00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:40.139
Wow.

596
00:39:40.139 --> 00:39:41.039
I think.

597
00:39:41.099 --> 00:39:42.659
I mean, I'm a huge fan of series three.

598
00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:51.000
I think, you know, that thing where Mr. Saxon goes back from episode 11 goes back into the middle of season 2 in the Tartars.

599
00:39:51.059 --> 00:39:53.400
And so we've had references, like, I think that's wonderful.

600
00:39:53.460 --> 00:40:06.000
Um, but I think, you know, like because it's like a, it's like a Moffat short story, really, where he changes the premise of the show subtly in an interesting way.

601
00:40:06.059 --> 00:40:12.780
And so he's doing it here, even within the show, he's changing the premise where the doctor is now blind for a few episodes.

602
00:40:12.900 --> 00:40:15.659
And I think making him blind.

603
00:40:15.719 --> 00:40:18.000
Like, why do we make him blind this story?

604
00:40:18.059 --> 00:40:20.460
He doesn't need to be blind for this story, does?

605
00:40:20.519 --> 00:40:20.880
Does he?

606
00:40:20.940 --> 00:40:22.380
He doesn't need to be blind for it to work.

607
00:40:22.500 --> 00:40:23.400
No.

608
00:40:23.820 --> 00:40:25.079
It just demonstrating that he's sacrificed.

609
00:40:25.079 --> 00:40:28.019
Sacrifice himself forbid about stakes. yeah Yeah, yeah.

610
00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:29.159
Yeah. and ups the stakes.

611
00:40:29.219 --> 00:40:34.679
If this is space and space is trying to kill you and we all just stroll away and there's no sort of particular problem.

612
00:40:34.739 --> 00:40:48.900
How do we feel about how compel the axe, or the doctor acts after when they're in those last sequences where he's in the TARDIS and we think the audience thinks everyone around him thinks that Nadal has healed him, have sexed him.

613
00:40:48.960 --> 00:40:57.119
Do we think that that reflects the movements and action of a blind person, even if they're in an ultrafamiliar environment, which is the Tartars console room?

614
00:40:57.179 --> 00:40:58.139
Because it's really funny.

615
00:40:58.199 --> 00:41:01.559
The 1st thing he says, oh, we're in the TARDIS, and obviously he could tell that anyway.

616
00:41:01.619 --> 00:41:03.719
Because the tartus goes blue, blue.

617
00:41:03.780 --> 00:41:03.960
Yeah.

618
00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:05.880
Oh, we're in the Titus.

619
00:41:05.940 --> 00:41:06.719
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

620
00:41:06.780 --> 00:41:11.519
But he kind of makes that point as if he wants them to think that he's...

621
00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:12.719
And he doesn't really look at anyone.

622
00:41:12.780 --> 00:41:13.380
No.

623
00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:15.059
No, you can see in his performance.

624
00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:15.900
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

625
00:41:15.960 --> 00:41:16.380
Yeah.

626
00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:18.000
The lizard eyes have failed.

627
00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:21.599
Oh, no, I think it's a great performance.

628
00:41:21.659 --> 00:41:25.320
I think Capaldi always delivers, and so he was never going to get that terribly wrong.

629
00:41:25.500 --> 00:41:27.659
Yeah, no, I'm just observing that.

630
00:41:27.719 --> 00:41:31.440
That's a thing that he does, that it's subtle, but I think it is there in that performance.

631
00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:48.239
And maybe that's the thing too, where you sensed that this had a kind of a generation story feel to it in that everything's going wrong and the doctors having to make kind of quiet, he's having to take sort of fairly drastic steps in order to keep bills safe.

632
00:41:48.300 --> 00:41:52.139
And so there's a price that has to be paid.

633
00:41:52.199 --> 00:41:53.219
That's right.

634
00:41:53.280 --> 00:42:01.019
And we talked about it last week again in knock knock, the fact that all of Bill's flatmate friends are killed and then come back to life, which is like just such a cheat.

635
00:42:01.079 --> 00:42:03.360
It feels like there's no stakes in someone dying.

636
00:42:03.420 --> 00:42:08.760
Whereas it couldn't obviously kill Bill, although it does in this episode, but doesn't.

637
00:42:08.820 --> 00:42:13.079
And so the stakes that you take away is, okay, she didn't die, but the doctor's still blind.

638
00:42:14.340 --> 00:42:16.920
This has a lot of great dialogue as well.

639
00:42:16.980 --> 00:42:18.780
Yes, you expect from Jane Matson.

640
00:42:18.840 --> 00:42:22.440
It feels like Stephen Moffat script in the rapid fire dialogue.

641
00:42:22.500 --> 00:42:25.199
My favourite line was too many rescue ships.

642
00:42:25.260 --> 00:42:26.400
It's a 1st world problem.

643
00:42:26.519 --> 00:42:27.119
Yes.

644
00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:35.460
I loved, I can't remember the exact line, but when the doctor says that, you know, he's got, they've got this problem and this problem and this problem.

645
00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:39.480
Can you imagine how smug he's going to be when he pulls this off?

646
00:42:39.539 --> 00:42:40.980
Yeah.

647
00:42:40.980 --> 00:42:42.119
Oh, mind is one of the problems.

648
00:42:42.179 --> 00:42:43.019
What is the problem?

649
00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:43.920
Yes, yes, yes.

650
00:42:44.400 --> 00:42:46.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah. was nice.

651
00:42:46.559 --> 00:42:48.420
That's kind of meta for the show, too.

652
00:42:48.539 --> 00:42:51.840
That kind of sums that whole character up, I feel.

653
00:42:51.900 --> 00:42:53.039
That's that doctor, right there.

654
00:43:02.099 --> 00:43:07.139
Just an unfortunate. episode in terms of, for me, in terms of just doesn't land.

655
00:43:07.199 --> 00:43:09.300
It doesn't, doesn't, it's not polished.

656
00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:11.639
There's something about that, the resolution, the rationale.

657
00:43:11.699 --> 00:43:16.019
I just wanted another couple of drafts and I think that's common problem with this season for me anyway.

658
00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:27.480
Yeah, see, I'm not the same, like, I think thin ice is an absolute top tier, Doctor Who episode and and a couple of people that I spoke to since, because I was surprised to discover that.

659
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:33.239
And a couple of people that I've spoken to since then have said, yes, no, that's my favourite Capaldi.

660
00:43:33.300 --> 00:43:33.840
Oh, wow.

661
00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:45.960
Yeah, and it's Sarah Dollard, you know, it's going to be good and it's the thing that we never got to see Capoli doing with Jenna, which is showing her around, introducing her to the premise of the show.

662
00:43:45.960 --> 00:43:51.179
And that's very much what thin ice does where, you know, at the end of the episode she gets to be the doctor.

663
00:43:51.239 --> 00:44:03.539
She gets to make the sort of decisions that the doctor has to make, including, you know, watching someone be killed and then moving on, you know, watching the doctor responsible for someone's death and they're kind of moving on to solve the problem.

664
00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:06.900
I think it's really sort of properly, seriously good, and it looks amazing.

665
00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:08.579
Um, this.

666
00:44:08.639 --> 00:44:22.559
I love Matheson staff, but for me, it is the fact that I just don't think it's more spacy than the other space things that we've seen.

667
00:44:22.619 --> 00:44:24.659
So you don't think it's more spacey.

668
00:44:24.719 --> 00:44:26.579
So it hasn't fulfilled its really...

669
00:44:26.639 --> 00:44:28.199
It's got to be more spicy.

670
00:44:28.260 --> 00:44:29.699
And I think...

671
00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:38.400
No, no, I mean more kind of rickety and we're just walking around in the usual space corridors.

672
00:44:38.460 --> 00:44:39.480
Is it kind of like thinking?

673
00:44:39.539 --> 00:44:47.820
Is it 40, just playing things like 42 and there are other, when they're in a grungy space station where there's kind of gas leaks coming out of the side and all that kind of stuff and they're all a bit sweaty?

674
00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:49.199
Is that the sort of thing that you had in mind?

675
00:44:49.260 --> 00:44:51.960
Like, it needs to be like...

676
00:44:52.019 --> 00:44:57.059
Yeah, Impossible Planets doing it a little bit, but you know, where Ed Thomas could have shot in a paper mill.

677
00:44:57.119 --> 00:44:58.019
That's right.

678
00:44:58.019 --> 00:44:59.280
Ed Thomas's paper mill.

679
00:44:59.340 --> 00:45:00.300
That's what we needed.

680
00:45:00.420 --> 00:45:06.539
No, I think I think we needed it to have more sort of space hardware and look a little bit less like. explaining the design.

681
00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:19.260
Yeah, in a way, but I also think that it's just something that the show was never going to be able to afford, that space looks like this in Doctor Who for a particular reason, and that is because that's how it can be actually, you know, realised.

682
00:45:19.380 --> 00:45:28.739
Yeah, I think I think that's made up for by that opening sequence when they're outside, which I think is very well done, the sequence where they're doing the spacewalk and builds, hasn't got their helmet.

683
00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:29.639
All those things.

684
00:45:29.699 --> 00:45:32.159
I think maybe more conforming than we're in in our can space.

685
00:45:32.699 --> 00:45:34.380
Don't say that.

686
00:45:35.039 --> 00:45:43.619
But basically, I prepared, it's like, you know, when one watches Doctor Who for, as long as we have one has to occasionally overlook certain things.

687
00:45:43.679 --> 00:45:44.280
Oh, sure.

688
00:45:44.280 --> 00:45:48.539
And that's not something that the sets in this is not something that I felt I was overlooking.

689
00:45:48.599 --> 00:45:54.239
There were other aspects that I felt that I was overlooking at was to do with the script and the plot rather than, or the plot rather than the script, I should say.

690
00:45:54.300 --> 00:45:56.340
Not the plot, the reason for being, I suppose.

691
00:45:56.400 --> 00:45:56.639
Yeah.

692
00:45:56.639 --> 00:45:58.079
Yeah. premise. premise.

693
00:45:58.139 --> 00:45:58.559
That the word.

694
00:45:58.739 --> 00:46:05.639
I mean, for me, it's television and I think it's super important that the visual salad.

695
00:46:05.699 --> 00:46:10.619
And now we can afford that more than we have been able to in the past.

696
00:46:10.679 --> 00:46:16.800
And, you know, we coined the term word peril for just, I think it might have been that clear.

697
00:46:16.860 --> 00:46:18.059
There are 1000s of them out.

698
00:46:18.119 --> 00:46:19.739
Yeah, well, it's...

699
00:46:19.739 --> 00:46:22.320
Where you were thinking about the cliffhanger to...

700
00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:23.460
The entire universe could be destroyed.

701
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:24.780
That's episode three.

702
00:46:24.840 --> 00:46:28.440
I don't know what a word parallel is, but that was exactly where my mind went.

703
00:46:28.500 --> 00:46:31.440
Oh, universe would be destroyed. yeah, right.

704
00:46:31.619 --> 00:46:33.659
How do we up the stakes?

705
00:46:33.719 --> 00:46:34.500
Yes, exactly.

706
00:46:34.500 --> 00:46:39.239
I think we're going to fall into the heart of a black star at the end of one of the...

707
00:46:39.300 --> 00:46:39.960
Invasion of time.

708
00:46:40.260 --> 00:46:46.739
That's where it comes from where there's one whole cliffhanger, which is just someone tells us that something bad is going through.

709
00:46:47.039 --> 00:46:50.280
And then Rodan goes and pulls the hand...

710
00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:58.800
And so we get told about the oxygen scarcity, but I just wish we could see it and I think it's important to tell it.

711
00:46:58.860 --> 00:47:00.900
Oh, with the visuals as well.

712
00:47:00.960 --> 00:47:02.880
I'm going to mostly disagree with both of you.

713
00:47:02.940 --> 00:47:13.619
I think this is a dramatic, well told, eerie, incredibly well mounted episode, which I think is a little bit on the nose with its politics.

714
00:47:13.679 --> 00:47:19.260
I'm going to agree with you, Simon, but I quite enjoy what it's going to say, and I think Nathan, it's incredibly well made.

715
00:47:19.320 --> 00:47:22.139
I actually don't get where you're coming from about it not being well made.

716
00:47:22.199 --> 00:47:27.539
I don't know that it's not well made, but it doesn't quite sell what the script is.

717
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:32.760
Do we have that geography problem like we had last week with knock knock, but I don't quite know which bits of the spaceship as we?

718
00:47:32.820 --> 00:47:39.780
I recently guessed it on a podcast where we did Waters of Mars, and I think Waters of Mars has some problems.

719
00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:43.980
What is a Mars is one of those ones which has gotten less good the further away it's gotten from me?

720
00:47:44.039 --> 00:47:50.519
I'm not sure about that, but I do think that what it does do is the geography of the base is extremely well established.

721
00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:52.380
Really, really well.

722
00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:54.119
Just the physical location.

723
00:47:54.179 --> 00:47:56.340
And I think it does better zombies actually.

724
00:47:56.400 --> 00:47:57.360
It does.

725
00:47:57.420 --> 00:47:59.219
Although these zombies are pretty good.

726
00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:02.940
Yeah, you actually help with that is when they have CGI or a cutback to model work.

727
00:48:02.940 --> 00:48:07.800
And the camera actually drifts in on the section that you're in that helps you to place where you are.

728
00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:08.880
Maybe, yes.

729
00:48:08.880 --> 00:48:10.199
And sometimes if you're lacking that.

730
00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:11.400
Yeah, they don't do that.

731
00:48:11.460 --> 00:48:15.599
There are exterior establishing shots, but they don't, because it's a circle.

732
00:48:15.659 --> 00:48:17.760
It looks fantastic doesn't it?

733
00:48:17.820 --> 00:48:18.960
360s.

734
00:48:19.019 --> 00:48:19.380
Yes.

735
00:48:19.380 --> 00:48:20.400
Quarters of Mars.

736
00:48:20.460 --> 00:48:26.400
No, no, the space station, the Academy space station. little hint of 2001 game.

737
00:48:26.460 --> 00:48:27.239
Yes, yes.

738
00:48:27.300 --> 00:48:27.900
A little hint.

739
00:48:27.960 --> 00:48:33.000
I think you need to have a little, but what we, as we said before, what's missing is the silences to make it really 2001.

740
00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:42.360
But again, I would have cared more if it had ever had about 25 minutes at the beginning of it, which allowed it for a bit more world building and for us to get to know these people.

741
00:48:42.360 --> 00:48:43.260
And to understand what's going on.

742
00:48:43.320 --> 00:48:46.260
And I think that makes everything else more exciting.

743
00:48:46.320 --> 00:48:51.900
Just running, running around and having crises does not in itself make it exciting.

744
00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:52.500
I need to care.

745
00:48:52.559 --> 00:48:57.420
Not having that means you have to get the plot shorthand with like, you know, I'm pregnant, et cetera, et cetera.

746
00:48:57.539 --> 00:48:58.199
Yes, exactly.

747
00:48:58.260 --> 00:49:17.460
And of course, we're using what could be precious episode time, even though it's great by having that sequence at the bidding in the lecture and having the sequence at the end where the doctor proclaims that he's still blind, because you have those, which are great bits, but the problem is then you're eating into the part where they're actually on the space station, which would have given you more time to be able to maybe do some of the things that I have an issue with.

748
00:49:17.519 --> 00:49:33.360
One of the things that sequence does, though, is the thing that I like in the pilot, where it makes it look like time is passing, because we have short scenes that just maybe consist of a line of dialogue or a look out the window. walking through the grounds with the one punchline joke in it.

749
00:49:33.420 --> 00:49:35.460
Yeah, I think that's really great.

750
00:49:35.519 --> 00:49:47.039
And that's the thing that sold me on the pilot that puts the pilot into sort of top tier territory is that it takes place over a year and it has the same sort of beats as a kind of film dart.

751
00:49:47.159 --> 00:49:47.760
It does.

752
00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:56.460
And I really liked how we're getting the idea that the doctor wants to go into space and that's something that's been building for a while.

753
00:49:56.519 --> 00:49:58.320
I think that's really good.

754
00:49:58.380 --> 00:49:59.280
And the lecture.

755
00:49:59.340 --> 00:50:00.239
What the lecture supposed to be about?

756
00:50:00.300 --> 00:50:01.079
What's this got to do?

757
00:50:01.079 --> 00:50:02.460
The crop rotation.

758
00:50:03.599 --> 00:50:06.059
But space is really cool.

759
00:50:06.119 --> 00:50:17.579
But like, I think, like, I really, really think that we could have just had every episode starts with Peter Capaldi giving a lecture about...

760
00:50:17.639 --> 00:50:19.139
No, seriously, that would have been awesome.

761
00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:20.460
That would have been absolutely awesome.

762
00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:24.599
I think maybe it would be too cheesy, but I think I would have won.

763
00:50:24.599 --> 00:50:25.679
This week, black holes.

764
00:50:26.099 --> 00:50:27.960
But, sir.

765
00:50:28.019 --> 00:50:29.940
Oh my god.

766
00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:33.239
But it works so well compared to like, I can't remember which one they call.

767
00:50:33.300 --> 00:50:35.940
Listen, which is the one where he starts with the...

768
00:50:35.940 --> 00:50:37.440
Yeah, the tartars.

769
00:50:37.440 --> 00:50:38.880
The blackboard, isn't it?

770
00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:39.300
Yeah.

771
00:50:39.360 --> 00:50:42.480
And then there's another one where he does it with who wrote Beethoven's Fish.

772
00:50:42.539 --> 00:50:43.500
Is that the same one?

773
00:50:43.559 --> 00:50:46.380
No, that's before the flood. before the flood. before the flood.

774
00:50:46.440 --> 00:50:54.539
See, I think that that's brilliant, listen, because in listen, he's losing it to such a degree where he's talking to himself and that's why he's talking.

775
00:50:54.599 --> 00:50:58.860
It's not a monologue or something to camera like it is in before the flood.

776
00:50:58.920 --> 00:51:05.639
It's genuinely, he's now losing it to the degree where he's talking to himself and so that's why we get to hear his thoughts.

777
00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:08.579
But because Douglas McKinnon is so terrible.

778
00:51:08.639 --> 00:51:13.500
He ruins it in all sorts of things. directed the Santarian strategy.

779
00:51:13.559 --> 00:51:15.960
I really like that story.

780
00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:16.739
I do too.

781
00:51:16.800 --> 00:51:19.440
I think it's a brilliant script, but I think it's ruined by Douglas McKenna.

782
00:51:19.500 --> 00:51:20.340
Slightly underdirected.

783
00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:20.880
I agree.

784
00:51:20.940 --> 00:51:25.500
Whenever they say Ganymede, does anyone just have the guy from...

785
00:51:26.159 --> 00:51:28.139
Ganymede Beacon?

786
00:51:28.199 --> 00:51:31.260
So why doesn't it all look swoosh and lovely like Never Beacon?

787
00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:31.980
what I want to say.

788
00:51:32.039 --> 00:51:33.239
It's not the 70s.

789
00:51:33.300 --> 00:51:38.760
Oh, this is where the guy was sending that spaceship off to with Michael Wisher on board.

790
00:51:38.820 --> 00:51:40.980
Yeah, he was he was sending them off.

791
00:51:40.980 --> 00:51:42.780
They're going to be bacon, which is this place?

792
00:51:42.780 --> 00:51:44.880
to go and rescue them from spacesuits.

793
00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:45.719
He was my brother.

794
00:51:47.940 --> 00:51:57.420
Well, the episode talks about the true face of the universe being when it asks for help, and the true face is our face when we respond to that cry for help.

795
00:51:57.480 --> 00:52:00.179
But that true face is the skull.

796
00:52:00.539 --> 00:52:03.599
That's what the true face is the face of Beau.

797
00:52:06.659 --> 00:52:08.820
I like your version better.

798
00:52:10.320 --> 00:52:12.420
I love that bit, though.

799
00:52:12.480 --> 00:52:21.360
I mean, I do love those lines of dialogue, you know, the... where the doctor, he's the distress call and says that's my theme song.

800
00:52:21.420 --> 00:52:23.039
Yeah, that's a theme too.

801
00:52:23.099 --> 00:52:29.400
And then where she wants to leave and he says who we are is being charged.

802
00:52:29.460 --> 00:52:30.539
That's the other thing too.

803
00:52:30.599 --> 00:52:33.599
Where he says, it's everyone's fault.

804
00:52:33.659 --> 00:52:34.739
No, it's your fault.

805
00:52:34.800 --> 00:52:37.199
The problem with the universe is everyone says it's not their fault.

806
00:52:37.260 --> 00:52:40.619
Everyone tries to kind of exculpate themselves or each other.

807
00:52:40.679 --> 00:52:41.460
It's all right.

808
00:52:41.519 --> 00:52:42.300
It wasn't your fault.

809
00:52:42.360 --> 00:52:44.280
And he says, no, it is your fault.

810
00:52:44.340 --> 00:52:45.420
Do something about it.

811
00:52:45.539 --> 00:52:51.420
He does it a 2nd time in the episode because Nadal and Bill are happy to run back to the TARNIS.

812
00:52:51.539 --> 00:52:53.159
And he says, have, you know, do the math.

813
00:52:53.219 --> 00:52:55.019
There's 4 people left alive.

814
00:52:55.079 --> 00:52:55.559
Yes.

815
00:52:55.559 --> 00:52:57.900
You hadn't thought about that. 40-36, yes.

816
00:52:57.960 --> 00:52:58.559
Yeah, yeah.

817
00:53:22.619 --> 00:53:25.559
Well, lady, sir, that's all the time we have for this week.

818
00:53:25.619 --> 00:53:32.340
We'll be back next week to watch Bill's first date with Penny taken unexpected turn in extremis.

819
00:53:32.880 --> 00:53:50.699
In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us on our website, flightthroughentirety.com, where you'll find our social media links as well as links to all of our other podcasts, including our other Doctor Who podcasts, 500-year diary, and the 2nd grade and bountiful human empire.

820
00:53:51.239 --> 00:53:56.699
Until next time, remember that it's all your fault, so what are you going to do about it?

821
00:53:56.760 --> 00:53:59.159
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

822
00:53:59.219 --> 00:54:00.059
Good night.

823
00:54:00.119 --> 00:54:01.079
Bye bye.

824
00:54:01.139 --> 00:54:02.219
Ciao for now.

825
00:54:08.280 --> 00:54:12.900
That was Flight for Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffith, Simon Moore, and Kate Orman.

826
00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:14.880
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

827
00:54:14.940 --> 00:54:21.360
This episode, Cowed and Crushed, was recorded on the 25th of August 2024 and released on the 13th of October.

828
00:54:21.659 --> 00:54:30.780
The average human being consumes about 780 grams of oxygen a day, which is clearly the reason I'm currently putting on so much weight.

829
00:54:30.840 --> 00:54:32.579
Time to cut down, I think.

830
00:54:44.639 --> 00:54:46.019
Does this happen?

831
00:54:46.079 --> 00:54:47.820
What, with paper in there?

832
00:54:47.940 --> 00:54:52.559
No, no, what I'm thinking is, what I don't think is, there's that bit at the end.

833
00:54:52.679 --> 00:54:53.940
Maybe this is a tag.

834
00:54:54.000 --> 00:55:04.199
There's a bit at the end where, um, the Bill hugs the doctor and then Nardol goes in for a hug and he says, cuddle.

835
00:55:05.219 --> 00:55:07.559
That happens again, doesn't it?

836
00:55:07.619 --> 00:55:08.519
Yes, that's it.

837
00:55:08.519 --> 00:55:09.659
That happens.

838
00:55:09.719 --> 00:55:11.400
Does it happen in twice upon a time?

839
00:55:11.460 --> 00:55:13.199
That's, I think, Nardol's last line.

840
00:55:13.260 --> 00:55:15.659
Where they both hug the doctor.

841
00:55:15.719 --> 00:55:16.980
He says cuddle and then they disappear.

842
00:55:17.159 --> 00:55:22.860
The funny thing is that the subtitles on the Blu-ray get it wrong.

843
00:55:22.920 --> 00:55:26.159
I can't remember, but they don't say cartel.

844
00:55:26.219 --> 00:55:26.940
Is it because of the Sonos?

845
00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:30.000
you know, audio translated...

846
00:55:30.059 --> 00:55:31.019
Right, they don't get it right.

847
00:55:31.079 --> 00:55:32.219
But they say something funny.

848
00:55:32.340 --> 00:55:33.659
It's just something odd.

849
00:55:33.719 --> 00:55:39.360
I think it's another one of Matt Lucas's ad libs because we've talked about that before.

850
00:55:39.420 --> 00:55:45.360
In Dr. Mysterio, where he goes into the bedroom and he goes, ooh, elephant.

851
00:55:45.420 --> 00:55:50.519
And then he sort of runs like, apparently that's that's an ad-lib.

852
00:55:50.579 --> 00:55:56.340
And Capaldi, you know, who is um, uh, more classically trained.

853
00:55:56.400 --> 00:55:56.820
Yes.

854
00:55:56.880 --> 00:56:04.019
You know, I am getting kind of per twee trout and kind of...

855
00:56:05.460 --> 00:56:10.619
But he says, you know, look, it's terribly funny, but like I'm not expecting it at all sort of thing.

856
00:56:10.679 --> 00:56:12.059
I'm going to say something about it.

857
00:56:12.119 --> 00:56:19.500
But yeah, no, it just seemed to be like a weird, um, hilarious Matt Lucas thing.

858
00:56:19.559 --> 00:56:21.420
Is he even supposed to be in the shot?

859
00:56:21.480 --> 00:56:22.739
He's just there suddenly.

860
00:56:23.099 --> 00:56:24.599
Okay.