WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 15:59:09 1 00:00:40.560 --> 00:00:52.140 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast that remembers how relaxing it was back when the doomsday clock was a whole 3 minutes to midnight. 2 00:00:52.259 --> 00:00:54.119 I'm Nathan. 3 00:00:54.179 --> 00:00:55.320 I'm Brendan. 4 00:00:55.380 --> 00:00:56.100 I'm James. 5 00:00:56.159 --> 00:00:57.299 And I'm Tom. 6 00:00:57.359 --> 00:01:02.280 Well, the monks are finally here, and like all of us, they really just want to be loved. 7 00:01:02.340 --> 00:01:07.799 So let's see if humanity swipes right in the pyramid at the end of the world. 8 00:01:28.859 --> 00:01:43.739 So we're in the middle episode of this trilogy, and I said last week that I thought that the trilogy was quite a good idea, but I can't claim with all honesty that I'm on board with literally all of the episodes. 9 00:01:43.799 --> 00:01:45.359 How do you feel about it, Tom? 10 00:01:45.780 --> 00:01:55.260 Well, I mean, in some ways, this is considering the story that began in oxygen, because we're still dealing with the consequences of the doctor's blindness and that's going to be a huge feature at the end of this episode. 11 00:01:55.319 --> 00:02:00.659 I think my overall feeling about this is that this is serialisation done right. 12 00:02:00.840 --> 00:02:08.759 You can tune into any of these episodes and they tell a complete self-contained story in their own right, whether that story is any good or not is something else we can get into. 13 00:02:08.819 --> 00:02:28.259 But the threads that connect them are more than simply, oh, there's that word again, there is an ongoing narrative here, but it doesn't absolutely require, in fact, one of the weaknesses of extremists, I think, is actually, you didn't need it to set this episode up, because the doctor knows the monks are coming because a sock and great pyramid appears and somebody calls him. 14 00:02:28.379 --> 00:02:33.539 So extremist has quite a lot to render itself moot. 15 00:02:33.599 --> 00:02:39.659 And any rendering moot that hasn't been accomplished by the end of extremists is accomplished by the beginning of this episode. 16 00:02:40.259 --> 00:02:59.759 So, yeah, but there are these narrative threads, like I said, not least of which, I really, remember being at the time, quite shocked, but nevertheless delighted at how big a narrative swing it was to blind the doctor at the end of an episode and then keep him blinded for the next 2 episodes. 17 00:02:59.819 --> 00:03:01.199 I mean, that's strong stuff. 18 00:03:01.439 --> 00:03:17.340 Yeah, I think, you know, like, I think the one thing that comes from extremacy into this episode is the idea that the monks have been able to survey all of human history and so they can find its weak spot. 19 00:03:17.400 --> 00:03:22.199 Now, again, that's probably conveyed sufficiently in dialogue in this episode in any case. 20 00:03:22.259 --> 00:03:25.860 Yeah, and they have a big sort of wibbly blue thing, which people can fondle. 21 00:03:25.979 --> 00:03:26.520 Exactly. 22 00:03:26.520 --> 00:03:28.439 And that's that does the job just as well. 23 00:03:28.500 --> 00:03:29.879 Yeah, yeah. 24 00:03:29.939 --> 00:03:41.460 I did say last week that I thought the idea of like a pre-invasion stage, you know, Android invasion one to 3 on the planet kraal, where we sort of experiment with an invasion. 25 00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:43.379 That's a reasonable thing to steal from. 26 00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:48.659 And then the beginning of the invasion and then the end of the occupation, I think. 27 00:03:48.719 --> 00:03:50.759 That works incredibly well. doesn't it? 28 00:03:50.819 --> 00:03:55.139 Like, as it's very different from a 6 part Doctor Who story. 29 00:03:55.199 --> 00:04:00.360 It really still is 3 stories, but and LinkedIn a satisfying way. 30 00:04:00.419 --> 00:04:06.840 I think Star Trek aspires these days to that kind of serialisation and Doctor Who does it very well here. 31 00:04:07.500 --> 00:04:25.740 Yeah, like I was I was on extremist last week and so I was watching this one with a particular view to how Essential Extremist was. and extremist is kind of referred to as, oh, yes, it's those monks you told me about. and the whole, I do love the conceit at the beginning. 32 00:04:25.740 --> 00:04:33.180 With the previously, it's interspersed with Bill going on a date with Penny now with the very helpful text now written underneath it. 33 00:04:33.240 --> 00:04:34.319 That's great, is it? 34 00:04:34.379 --> 00:04:45.540 Um, and you know, what it what it kind of makes me think of is last week was the episode that some shows do, and Nathan, I know you're going to cringe at this one. like course oblivion in Voyager. 35 00:04:45.660 --> 00:04:48.420 Where it's like, hate that so much. 36 00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:48.899 Yeah. 37 00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:58.500 But it's like, this is our chance to kill everyone off last week in extremists without it affecting the ongoing the ongoing narrative. 38 00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:07.259 But yeah, I think there is sometimes a problem with illusory stories, virtual stories, where you kind of get to the end of it, go, well, what was the point of that? 39 00:05:07.319 --> 00:05:09.060 I still really enjoy extremists. 40 00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:17.399 But yeah, Tom, I see your point about how essential is it when it gives you the monk's backstory and maybe saves about 5 minutes at the top of this one. 41 00:05:17.459 --> 00:05:36.420 I mean, this is not the extremest episode, so we can move off this fairly rapidly, but my review at the time just consisted of a dialogue between the one of the monks and whoever was leading the operation, trying to figure out what had gone wrong and saying things like, yeah, mate, it was fairly easy to defeat the doctor. 42 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:37.199 I mean, he was blind. 43 00:05:37.259 --> 00:05:47.399 Yeah, yeah, we made we made it blind in the simulation because what the point was to test our invasion plans against the most fearsome adversary we could imagine. 44 00:05:47.459 --> 00:05:49.500 Why did you make him blind? 45 00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:53.339 I mean, to be honest, the whole thing fell apart once everyone read the book that told them they were in a simulation. 46 00:05:53.399 --> 00:05:54.120 The what? 47 00:05:55.379 --> 00:05:59.220 and told everyone, sort of like an Easter egg? 48 00:05:59.279 --> 00:06:01.500 It made it very hard to translate. 49 00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:02.939 Et cetera. 50 00:06:03.060 --> 00:06:04.079 Yes. 51 00:06:04.139 --> 00:06:05.279 Yeah, quite. 52 00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:16.379 My memory of this one, though, is that it was pretty good. and watching it this time, I have to say that I actually enjoyed it a whole lot. 53 00:06:16.439 --> 00:06:25.379 And I think there are some things that it does very well, even though there are things that I think a little bit kind of undercooked. 54 00:06:25.620 --> 00:06:33.420 But I really, really enjoyed the stuff with Erica and Douglas a lot. 55 00:06:33.540 --> 00:06:35.939 I thought that was really fun. 56 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:37.139 She was really great. 57 00:06:37.199 --> 00:06:40.439 I thought that the location really worked. 58 00:06:40.500 --> 00:06:50.160 Like, you know, you could imagine a laboratory in 1970s, Doctor Who just being in the studio and having, you know, like a few test tubes and a Bunsen burner and stuff. 59 00:06:50.220 --> 00:06:53.939 But this really looked like, you know, like an industrial laboratory. 60 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:57.839 You know where this industrial laboratory was originally supposed to be? 61 00:06:57.899 --> 00:06:59.819 Global chemicals. 62 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:02.399 I would have been 1st draft. 63 00:07:03.959 --> 00:07:13.860 And on top of that as well, the compound they were developing was DN8, a follow-up to DN6 from Planet of Giants. 64 00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:15.660 It's sequel. 65 00:07:17.339 --> 00:07:21.420 I love the cutting back and forth between the 2 of them. 66 00:07:21.480 --> 00:07:26.040 And I loved the way it was completely baked into the rest of the story. 67 00:07:26.100 --> 00:07:38.819 I don't know if any of you guys were watching House of the Dragon, but in series 2, we keep cutting back to some like random guys doing their own thing, completely disconnected from the main plot and in episode 7. 68 00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:39.420 I think it is. 69 00:07:39.480 --> 00:07:44.699 It transpires that these are secret dragon riders. 70 00:07:44.759 --> 00:07:55.379 And so it's a bit of a thing because you had to sit through episodes where you're cutting weight of random people and it just feels like chess pieces being moved into position as opposed to the story organically unfurling. 71 00:07:55.439 --> 00:08:00.180 But if you don't do that, then these characters who are going to be important later on, have no backstory. 72 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:02.100 So it's a bit of a bind. 73 00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:08.879 But here, Moffat and Harness bake the fact that we have to keep cutting away right into the concept. 74 00:08:08.939 --> 00:08:11.879 I think it's incredibly clever and works superbly well. 75 00:08:11.939 --> 00:08:16.620 It's the, we get to see the monk reflected against a screen. 76 00:08:16.680 --> 00:08:27.120 So we know quite early on that the monks are watching them, and that obviously becomes an important element in the resolution of that part of the plot. 77 00:08:27.180 --> 00:08:34.019 And you've got the doctor's monologue, and the doctor, again, is genuinely monologuing in the Tartars. 78 00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:42.840 He's not delivering his speech about the grandfather paradox or whatever at the beginning of before the flood. 79 00:08:42.899 --> 00:08:44.279 He's actually in the Tartars. 80 00:08:44.340 --> 00:08:51.000 Like he is in listen, just talking to himself, and you do get Bill shouting through the door, you know, a bit later on. 81 00:08:51.059 --> 00:09:02.820 And he's talking about death and how our death is, in a sense, from his point of view, preordained, that at one point will go to a place for the last time that we'll ever go to it. 82 00:09:02.879 --> 00:09:08.639 You know, I think perhaps I've watched The Vanquishers for the last time already. 83 00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:13.019 No, we have to do it. 84 00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:20.700 And what I think is really good, is the 2 events that actually cause this to happen. 85 00:09:20.759 --> 00:09:35.940 The 2 inciting events, which is Erica's husband or boyfriend slamming her reading glasses in the door, and then Douglas getting drunk the night before, and he says, oh, you know, there was drinking and there were breakages. 86 00:09:36.059 --> 00:09:51.539 And so both of them are images of glass breaking and we keep cutting back to them to remind us that that it's that that has sort of set this on the path, just this tiny thing, this tiny thing where he can't read the thing. 87 00:09:51.600 --> 00:09:53.700 Erica can't read it because she hasn't got her glasses. 88 00:09:53.759 --> 00:10:10.799 He can't read it properly because he's still hung over and he puts the decimal point in the wrong place, which I only really properly noticed this time round. despite how much effort Netheim puts into making sure that we see those numbers. 89 00:10:10.919 --> 00:10:14.700 I just think all of that stuff is really terrifically good. 90 00:10:14.759 --> 00:10:23.700 I do think Erica's a bit blasé about Douglas having been gunked. she's got a lot on her mind subsequently, but she never seems particularly upset about it. 91 00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:25.019 So like, oh, that's the thing that happened. 92 00:10:25.080 --> 00:10:25.799 He's dead. 93 00:10:25.799 --> 00:10:30.840 I actually quite liked that reaction because and I'm not quite sure why. 94 00:10:30.899 --> 00:10:36.779 I think, you know, the episode doesn't have time for her to be all kind of, you know. 95 00:10:36.840 --> 00:10:39.659 And she does a kind of, oh, Douglas, what have you done? 96 00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:42.720 You know, like there's an affection there. 97 00:10:42.779 --> 00:10:43.740 Do you know what I mean? 98 00:10:43.799 --> 00:10:45.179 Like an airline pilot. 99 00:10:45.240 --> 00:10:46.080 She just got to work the problem. 100 00:10:46.139 --> 00:10:48.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 101 00:10:48.059 --> 00:10:48.659 It would have been. 102 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:51.360 I mean, it would have been terrible to have her too upset by it. 103 00:10:51.480 --> 00:10:53.100 But yes, yeah. 104 00:10:53.159 --> 00:10:54.720 It is a thing. 105 00:10:54.779 --> 00:10:56.100 Capaldi bursting into tears. 106 00:10:57.539 --> 00:11:08.220 I had a sort of Mandela effect with this because I thought that she barely reacted at all, but she actually gives a really good initial reaction face to Douglas just fizzing out. 107 00:11:08.279 --> 00:11:14.340 Where I think the reaction is a little bit undersold is when the doctor can't get back through the door at the end. 108 00:11:14.340 --> 00:11:16.980 And I think it's because, you know, Capaldi's in the foreground. 109 00:11:16.980 --> 00:11:21.179 And I think Rachel, the actress playing Erica, thinks, oh, I'm probably out of focus. 110 00:11:21.240 --> 00:11:25.500 I won't, you know, go over the top, but it's the literal, have I left the iron on? 111 00:11:25.559 --> 00:11:26.159 Look. 112 00:11:26.940 --> 00:11:33.600 But it's the only thing that could possibly be construed as a criticism of Rachel Denning's performance. 113 00:11:33.659 --> 00:11:38.279 I think Erica is absolutely a wonderful character and really well performed. 114 00:11:44.639 --> 00:11:49.200 In fact, I think that whole plot is done just incredibly well. 115 00:11:49.259 --> 00:11:55.980 You know, it's not just the sort of everyday stuff like the workplace banter is really sort of fairly convincing, isn't it? 116 00:11:56.039 --> 00:12:00.480 You know, the lunch thing when Douglas says, I'm going to go and have a lie under my desk. 117 00:12:00.539 --> 00:12:06.960 I say that 2 or 3 times a week, you know, like all of that stuff, I think, really, really works really well. 118 00:12:07.620 --> 00:12:13.919 I think a potential weakness of Moffat's writing is he's so facile. 119 00:12:13.980 --> 00:12:23.580 So he finds that the jokes come so easily that if he isn't very careful, everything can kind of rise to this super sophisticated sitcom level and it can start to feel a bit synthetic. 120 00:12:23.639 --> 00:12:29.279 And I can almost feel with that Erica Douglas stuff that he's just tamping it down enough. 121 00:12:29.879 --> 00:12:45.480 This could have been a lot physio a lot funnier, but that would throw the whole tone of the episode off, and I can almost feel him just kind of putting a little bit of a lid on the banter and trying to keep it to like a recognisably human level of wit and not something which is too over the top. 122 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:56.340 And he does, he does, I mean, like maybe this feeds into it, but he is doing rewrites on this story at his mother's deathbed, basically. 123 00:12:56.460 --> 00:13:01.139 Yeah, he's writing, he's doing rewrites in hospital with his mother. 124 00:13:01.259 --> 00:13:03.059 God, I didn't know that. 125 00:13:03.299 --> 00:13:07.559 Like Russell towards the end of his 1st reign. 126 00:13:07.620 --> 00:13:18.840 He's starting to take co-credit here because it's a Peter Harness script, and he's co-writer on it, which I think earlier, he would have probably done as extensive a rewrite and not taken the credit. 127 00:13:18.899 --> 00:13:26.519 He does give himself a number of co-credits in series 8, I think, but mostly I think they're the Danny Clara C. 128 00:13:26.580 --> 00:13:27.360 Yes. 129 00:13:27.419 --> 00:13:29.039 Yeah, yeah. 130 00:13:29.100 --> 00:13:30.600 James touched on it there. 131 00:13:30.659 --> 00:13:34.139 It was because due to how Moffatt was working on this. 132 00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:40.320 He didn't have time to brief Peter Harness on further changes because there was a lot change from the 1st draft of this. 133 00:13:40.379 --> 00:13:47.220 Erica was originally a truck driver disposing of samples from global chemicals in Ohio. 134 00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:48.059 Yes, that's right. 135 00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:53.220 Kate Lethbridge Stewart was going to be in it, but Gemma Redgrave was making Holby City. 136 00:13:53.220 --> 00:14:00.360 And then Rebecca Front was supposed to be in it in the next draft as her character from the Zigon invasion. 137 00:14:00.539 --> 00:14:11.940 And finally, Osgood's absence, or rather, the 2 Osgood's absences were because they were in America dealing with, quote, a Zigon who's infiltrated the Republican Party. 138 00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:13.440 Unquote. 139 00:14:13.500 --> 00:14:15.960 Oh, I wish that had been... 140 00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:18.179 We did get a Trump record. 141 00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:19.320 There is one. 142 00:14:19.379 --> 00:14:19.860 Yeah. 143 00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:20.460 Yeah. 144 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:21.779 So we did get a Trump reference. 145 00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:24.659 We will get another one next week, sort of slightly more oblique one. 146 00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:31.740 Although the president who kills himself disappointingly has black hair in last week's episode. 147 00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:34.200 So they did miss a trick there. 148 00:14:34.259 --> 00:14:40.379 But I doubt that he has quite enough introspection to respond in that way to any kind of news. 149 00:14:40.440 --> 00:14:42.299 He probably would have just done the deal with them straight away. 150 00:14:42.419 --> 00:14:43.200 Yeah, that's right. 151 00:14:43.259 --> 00:15:02.340 But initially also in one of the earlier drafts, the 3 military leaders that killed off by the monks were originally actually, the various leaders or presidents of, I believe, America, obviously, North Korea and Russia. 152 00:15:02.340 --> 00:15:03.720 Right, right, right. 153 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:05.700 Let's talk about them. 154 00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:13.019 So we're back in Made Up a stand, which is where those events from Peter Harness's previous script took place. 155 00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:14.100 What do we call it? 156 00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:18.840 To Mesestan, which I always think sounds to me to me more like a fungal cream than a country. 157 00:15:19.019 --> 00:15:20.820 It's really funny. 158 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:23.340 It was kind of, it seemed sort of very Eastern European last time. 159 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:35.399 It had, you know, it was sort of, you know, had a little church and, you know, like it was sort of a bit softer, the light was a bit softer, but here, we sort of seem to be very much in the Middle East. 160 00:15:35.460 --> 00:15:37.679 So we have these 3 people. 161 00:15:37.740 --> 00:15:48.779 Apparently there's some kind of thing happening day of the Dalek style where the 3 armies are all massing in one place because of some proxy thing and that's a big deal. 162 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:56.639 And then we have the 3 leaders of the armies or 3 kind of representatives of the armies there. 163 00:15:56.700 --> 00:16:00.720 How do people feel about that aspect of the episode? 164 00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:04.200 Well, it's all a faint, isn't it? 165 00:16:04.259 --> 00:16:16.320 I mean, my potential criticism of this episode, which I don't think actually coalesces into an actual criticism, is that there's a bit of setup at the beginning, and then structurally there's a lot of what I call narrative vamping. 166 00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:19.740 And then eventually we get the resolution. 167 00:16:19.799 --> 00:16:22.500 And I think there are other episodes that feel more like that. 168 00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:36.539 I think for all its virtues, the stolen earth feels a lot like that, with everybody just sort of moving into position, so we have that crackerjack ending, but no one is actually allowed to meet properly until the next episode, everyone has to be narratively kept apart. 169 00:16:36.600 --> 00:16:42.659 I think the 2 things that stop it from feeding like that are this incredible sense of rising tensions throughout that. 170 00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:47.940 Normally if somebody tries a thing and it doesn't work, I think, oh, well, that's because the script was 5 pages too short. 171 00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:51.480 Here, it really does work to ramp up the tension. 172 00:16:51.539 --> 00:17:09.359 And then as we also said, the ongoing, slow moving Rube Goldberg calamity of what Erica and Douglas are doing really helps to make everything else feel like not just using up time. 173 00:17:09.420 --> 00:17:11.160 But like in fact, time is running out. 174 00:17:11.819 --> 00:17:18.119 I don't feel that the 3 armies massing feels terribly sort of tangible. 175 00:17:18.180 --> 00:17:20.940 It feels like a bit of a device, which is fine. 176 00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:22.740 We needed devices to get our stories going. 177 00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:26.099 I mean, it very clearly is a faint. 178 00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:39.900 Like we are meant to think that this is the reason why we're 3 minutes from midnight or 2 minutes from midnight or whatever, but I never really get the sense that there's any particular conflict between those people. 179 00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:46.200 They all seem to turn up sort of and start being very nice to one another and, you know, World War 3, we're against it. 180 00:17:46.259 --> 00:17:52.079 And so they never really seems to be a point at which they're kind of going, we're kind of teetering on the edge here. 181 00:17:52.140 --> 00:17:53.400 Anything could happen. 182 00:17:53.460 --> 00:17:57.720 One of them could go crazy and decide to, you know, attack. 183 00:17:57.779 --> 00:18:00.240 We very, very quickly all friends. 184 00:18:00.299 --> 00:18:02.940 Yeah, there's no general Buckturgison here. 185 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:04.200 No, that's right. 186 00:18:04.259 --> 00:18:05.099 That's right. 187 00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:31.079 But it's, I mean, I guess the idea is because it is properly a feint, and so we're never made to feel cheated, and in fact, what ends up happening is we get the character beat of the doctor ordering an attack on the pyramid, which it seems that he does because he's scared because he's blind, and he feels the situation is somewhat out of his control, and so they all are involved in that. 188 00:18:31.140 --> 00:18:39.059 And then we get the moment where they think the doctor's not going to be able to stop whatever calamity is happening elsewhere in the world. 189 00:18:39.059 --> 00:18:44.460 And so they all agree again to go in and give their consent to the monks. 190 00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:49.019 As it unfolds, it all feels very smooth. 191 00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:57.720 It doesn't give me that feeling that I was referring to that I got watching mid-season episodes of House of the Dragon of these are just the chess pieces being moved into position. 192 00:18:57.779 --> 00:19:06.240 Everybody does things that seem purposeful and like they are the things that those people would do if they happen not to massively advance the plot. 193 00:19:06.299 --> 00:19:07.259 Well, that's life sometimes. 194 00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:10.859 We all do things in our own lives that don't seem to be advancing the plot. 195 00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:23.039 I think it also foreshadows the doctor's conclusion that there's misdirection going on because I think we as the audience expect the soldiers to want to fight each other. 196 00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:29.940 Instead, we kind of get a replay of that moment in the curse of Fenrick, where the soldiers say war is just a game for politicians. 197 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:38.940 And, you know, they see very senior soldiers kind of kind of go, we're the ones who actually make the decisions on battlefields and we don't want a battlefield today. 198 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:51.900 I think that's possibly part of part of the reason behind it because a criticism of the Zygon 2 parter at the time was the sort of very militaristic attitude in parts of it. 199 00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:56.279 And we've discussed very often that Stephen Moffat always reacts against himself. 200 00:19:56.339 --> 00:19:58.140 He's always reinventing. 201 00:19:58.200 --> 00:20:05.819 So this might have been him and Peter Harness both going, okay, well, we'll approach a similar idea from a different angle and see how we go with that. 202 00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:19.440 I have to say my favourite thing about that is remember, you know, calling for an airstrike on the crinoid or something and it usually just involved a bit of stock footage and, you know, we'd cut to the planes going past or whatever. 203 00:20:19.500 --> 00:20:25.799 And here we do order the airstrike and we get fabulous shots, like the monks in the cockpit. 204 00:20:25.859 --> 00:20:29.400 He's just absolutely superb. 205 00:20:29.460 --> 00:20:32.220 You know, because you're not even expecting to see the cockpit at all. 206 00:20:32.279 --> 00:20:34.380 It's kind of like, oh, the cockpit, that's kind of exciting. 207 00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:35.759 And then the monks are there. 208 00:20:35.819 --> 00:20:39.119 Absolutely where they don't belong, like in absolutely the wrong place. 209 00:20:39.180 --> 00:20:45.000 And so the scene of the guys being set free as well is kind of wonderful too. 210 00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:46.619 You know, they're not killed. 211 00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:52.559 They're just sort of transported and so they wander out of the pyramid looking like super bewilted. 212 00:20:52.619 --> 00:20:54.059 It's really very good. 213 00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:57.119 It's really great followed by a bunch of Russian submariners. 214 00:20:57.180 --> 00:20:59.279 That's so funny as well. 215 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:14.460 And like for a 2nd I thought, oh, you know, we're trying to save money because there's a lot of sort of noise and stuff, you know, of something that's happening off camera and then we come back to like the submarine sticking out of the ground, which is such a great visual gag. 216 00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:15.240 It's awesome. 217 00:21:17.220 --> 00:21:22.859 Something I'd like to mention about those war room scenes for want of a better word. 218 00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:28.859 We've got the doctor's sunglasses, heads up display once again, and that gives stats for everyone. 219 00:21:28.920 --> 00:21:31.319 And I decided to pause it and have a look at some of those stats. 220 00:21:31.380 --> 00:21:33.359 So Bill is 26. 221 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:34.380 Yep. 222 00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:34.559 Yep. 223 00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:34.920 Yep. 224 00:21:34.980 --> 00:21:35.880 Yep, fair enough. 225 00:21:35.940 --> 00:21:38.220 Nardol is 237. 226 00:21:38.460 --> 00:21:44.339 I'm looking good The thing is, though, he is looking good for it, he's not just sexy. 227 00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:51.000 The thing is, though, ostensibly he's been with the doctor for the past 1000 years guarding the vault. 228 00:21:51.059 --> 00:21:57.240 No, no, the doctor's only just started guarding the vibes and so he's only been at it for 70 years. 229 00:21:57.299 --> 00:22:05.819 Yes, I was theorising like not all got annoyed occasionally and just took the TARDIS off for like 300 years from doctor's perspective. 230 00:22:06.180 --> 00:22:06.960 Yep, nipped forward. 231 00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:08.039 So we didn't have to wait. 232 00:22:08.099 --> 00:22:10.319 The secretary general is 70. 233 00:22:10.500 --> 00:22:11.279 Yeah. 234 00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:18.960 The Chinese commander, whose name, whose name I'm probably going to mispronounce, uh, Jalian, is 41. 235 00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:25.259 The American commander, um, Rabbit is 56. 236 00:22:25.500 --> 00:22:32.039 However, I think there's a bit of a mistake when we get to Ilya, the Russian commander, who's apparently 70. 237 00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:34.740 The actor is 46. 238 00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:37.140 And he looks younger. 239 00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:38.640 He's a handsome man. 240 00:22:38.700 --> 00:22:39.900 I like the Russian guy. 241 00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:43.920 And I thought maybe they just copy pasted the secretary generals, but the height is different. 242 00:22:43.980 --> 00:22:44.700 The weight is different. 243 00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:45.779 The temperature's different. 244 00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:50.099 So, yeah, I mean, they probably did just copy paste it and not change the age. 245 00:22:50.160 --> 00:22:52.619 He almost certainly just moisturises quite a lot. 246 00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:53.700 He's very well preserved. 247 00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:54.599 Yeah, that's right. 248 00:22:54.660 --> 00:22:58.140 He's from part of Russia that doesn't get a lot of direct sunlight. 249 00:22:58.200 --> 00:22:59.519 That's it. we go. 250 00:22:59.579 --> 00:23:03.539 That's like, it's like the Hitchhiker's Guide, it's the Galaxy on TV, isn't it? 251 00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:04.980 All this little extra in jokes. 252 00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:09.900 Although the heads up display did annoy me in my review of extremists as well. 253 00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:11.279 It was fine. 254 00:23:11.339 --> 00:23:12.059 He wasn't that blind. 255 00:23:12.119 --> 00:23:13.740 He had a heads up display in his sunglasses. 256 00:23:13.799 --> 00:23:16.380 What was he using to look at the heads up display? 257 00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:18.059 Sorry? 258 00:23:18.119 --> 00:23:19.920 Oh, it's Sonic. 259 00:23:19.980 --> 00:23:33.240 You see, I think that, yes, his eyes are damaged, but my guess is that the sound frequencies head cannon are creating the message and setting it to his brain directly without his eyes. 260 00:23:33.299 --> 00:23:39.480 It's like Joe 90s glasses and Richard Forced, Rod, and I to watch all of Joe 90s. so I know all about that. 261 00:23:39.900 --> 00:23:46.259 What I do think is odd is that it does show the outlines of hard surfaces, but not of people. 262 00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:48.900 So I don't quite know how that works. 263 00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:51.119 Maybe the sound goes through people who can say. 264 00:23:51.180 --> 00:23:56.279 It doesn't do organic material, but it does do a It does your table, your conference table. 265 00:23:56.339 --> 00:23:58.440 Maybe the numbers on that combination lock have been recessed. 266 00:23:58.500 --> 00:23:59.339 Exactly. 267 00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:01.920 Do you know it's established quite early on, isn't it? 268 00:24:01.980 --> 00:24:04.380 Where Colonel Brabbit shows him an iPad, I think? 269 00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:11.160 Or maybe maybe it's the Secretary General, shows him an iPad with some kind of sit rep on it and he says, oh, just give it to me in your own words. 270 00:24:11.220 --> 00:24:16.019 So it's established that he can't see the thing on the surfaces, you know, he can't read. 271 00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:22.859 My favourite bit of business around all of the blindness stuff is not all narrated. 272 00:24:22.859 --> 00:24:25.079 It's like, oh, actually. 273 00:24:25.140 --> 00:24:25.980 That's everybody. 274 00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:31.680 Which you can almost certainly see with a heads up display, except that that's really funny. 275 00:24:31.740 --> 00:24:33.240 And I do think too. 276 00:24:33.299 --> 00:24:40.140 You know, they make the right decision to not give him some kind of space thing to not give him a Star Trek communicator. 277 00:24:40.200 --> 00:24:45.960 And so he just talks into one of the wooden buttons on his duffle coat, which I just think is absolutely perfect. 278 00:24:48.059 --> 00:24:55.500 And there's a moment too, where Bill notices that something is wrong with a doctor because he's called for the attack. 279 00:24:55.559 --> 00:25:07.319 And I hadn't watched this for a while and I assumed that that was where the doctor was going to reveal to her, that he was blind and it doesn't end up happening. 280 00:25:07.380 --> 00:25:14.640 But our doll sends Bill to talk to the doctor on the understanding that he's going to say that and he's about to, isn't he? 281 00:25:14.700 --> 00:25:19.079 Yeah, but then the thought gives him the idea that he can blind the monks. 282 00:25:19.140 --> 00:25:20.700 Yes, that's right. 283 00:25:20.759 --> 00:25:22.319 And so he says the word blinded. 284 00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:23.759 He's clearly about to say the word. 285 00:25:23.819 --> 00:25:28.680 It's wandering sort of in his head, but that gives him the idea to do something else. 286 00:25:28.740 --> 00:25:30.720 And so it never ends up happening. 287 00:25:30.779 --> 00:25:42.000 And I thought all of that was like amazingly good because, you know, no one says the doctor's scared or the doctor feels vulnerable or, you know, he's behaving like this because he's blind. 288 00:25:42.059 --> 00:25:47.819 Like we're just kind of left to kind of theorise about that, but everyone is clearly behaving that way. 289 00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:55.799 And I thought that was properly interesting, given how little he gives away about that and how invulnerable he wants to seem. 290 00:25:55.859 --> 00:25:59.099 And I think Capaldi is really, really good here. 291 00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:02.039 He's such a big actor when he wants to be. 292 00:26:02.099 --> 00:26:05.579 And again, there's a slight sense of him tamping his performance down a bit. 293 00:26:05.579 --> 00:26:29.819 And that really works to sell this idea of this slightly more cautious, this slightly underpowered doctor who doesn't have the same kind of blase courage of his convictions that this doctor in particular very often has, just marching in and announcing to everybody what's going to happen, heedless of their emotional state or even sometimes the risks that he's taking. 294 00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:31.859 But here he's much more cautious, much more nervous. 295 00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:35.759 And I just think Capoundi really sells that without, as you say, making it too overt. 296 00:26:35.819 --> 00:26:37.799 It's really good. isn't it? 297 00:26:37.859 --> 00:26:38.519 He is terrific. 298 00:26:38.579 --> 00:26:40.259 We were so lucky to have him. 299 00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:41.640 Yeah, oh absolutely. 300 00:26:41.700 --> 00:26:42.359 Just superb. 301 00:26:42.420 --> 00:26:43.259 That's the other thing. 302 00:26:43.319 --> 00:27:03.420 I think I felt watching this episode again, which was, because, you know, I was, I'd been reviewing every episode on my blog since Matt Smith took over and liking some and not liking some and being delighted some weeks and fulminating at the state of the nation other weeks, but I never felt that the future of the series was in any jeopardy. 303 00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:06.240 Even if there was a run of episodes I didn't like. 304 00:27:06.359 --> 00:27:21.539 I never felt that it was hanging by a thread the way I think anyone watching in the 80s felt because we'd, you know, watching the McCoy era, we'd been through the hiatus and we sort of knew that one more set of bad ratings could be the end and low, eventually it was. 305 00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:27.539 And now with all these rumours circulating about whether Disney are going to re-up that same anxiety as present. 306 00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:28.740 Yeah, yeah. 307 00:27:43.799 --> 00:27:50.460 Something that was in the original draft, uh, which is completely absent. 308 00:27:50.519 --> 00:28:02.279 You know, it's kind of like, yeah, we lose Kate, but we get Brabbit, you know, there are, there are analogous characters to unit in this, but originally the pyramid wasn't just going to land. 309 00:28:02.339 --> 00:28:20.400 There was this amazing image of a young boy called Hassan in to Mizhistan, who one night wakes up, takes a sledgehammer to his wall and starts taking the bricks outside, and then you pull out to reveal all the children in this town are taking bricks outside and building a pyramid. 310 00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:28.859 And then when the pyramid is built, a beam of light appears and Hassan is then the voice of the monks throughout the story. 311 00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:31.200 And it's an interesting idea. 312 00:28:31.259 --> 00:28:41.339 I can see why they got rid of it because it's a lot of work to set that up when the pre-titles of there's a pyramid that wasn't here yesterday does all that for you. 313 00:28:41.579 --> 00:28:48.480 And very well, you know, a 5000 year old pyramid that wasn't here yesterday is perfect, very Doctor Who. 314 00:28:48.539 --> 00:29:11.579 I wonder whether the pyramids age is a hangover from an earlier version of the script as well, because initially the monks were time controlling, time sensitive beings, they weren't just, you know, aliens with really great predictive computer modelling, they were able to actually foresee various multiversal futures. 315 00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:19.920 And so it was actually them nudging things this way and that to try and make things happen. 316 00:29:19.980 --> 00:29:24.779 As if they'd resurrected a pyramid from 5000 years ago and put it there now. 317 00:29:25.019 --> 00:29:42.119 I said last week that I thought that the monks, if they work in extremists, it's because they are like the Catholic Church, only older and weirder and more terrifying. 318 00:29:42.180 --> 00:29:44.099 It's more realistic. 319 00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:45.119 And more realistic. 320 00:29:45.180 --> 00:29:45.960 But do you know what I mean? 321 00:29:46.019 --> 00:29:49.500 Like an ancient dead way of knowing. 322 00:29:49.559 --> 00:30:08.880 And certainly next week when we look at what they do when they take over the world, and even here, where their job is to say, the world is going to end, and if you love us and do what we say, we will save you from it. 323 00:30:08.940 --> 00:30:11.220 And they're called monks for a reason. 324 00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:16.440 I think that the pyramid is actually not a great idea. 325 00:30:16.500 --> 00:30:27.900 And next week, they call it the cathedral, and I just wish that it had been a weird, intricate Gothic looking thing. 326 00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:32.519 Yeah, yeah, like something odd and strange, but absolutely Gothic. 327 00:30:32.579 --> 00:30:35.940 And going into the pyramid. 328 00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:37.440 It's so cheap. 329 00:30:37.500 --> 00:30:39.599 That set is so terrible. 330 00:30:39.660 --> 00:30:42.599 They have so absolutely run out of money. 331 00:30:42.660 --> 00:30:45.059 And so there's no atmosphere to it either. 332 00:30:45.119 --> 00:31:00.599 And I think if you're kind of selling the idea that they're these dead ancient monsters that belong in crypts and things, I think, you know, having a very clean spaceship made out of plywood is not the best way of going about selling that. 333 00:31:00.660 --> 00:31:02.819 I also guess they're mummies and monks. 334 00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:03.960 Yes, I suppose. 335 00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:05.759 Mummies, pyramids. 336 00:31:05.819 --> 00:31:06.720 Yeah. 337 00:31:06.779 --> 00:31:10.259 There's a long tradition of putting together things that don't match. 338 00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:16.619 Sure, monks don't belong in pyramids, but yetis with webs don't belong in the London Underground either, and that's interwork fine. 339 00:31:16.680 --> 00:31:17.819 Sure. 340 00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:20.519 I just thought that if you want to sell what they are. 341 00:31:20.579 --> 00:31:31.680 Like it just seemed, it seemed like the show is nearly there, but not quite, or it doesn't quite fully want to commit to the monks are evil kind of religious leaders or something. 342 00:31:31.740 --> 00:31:34.259 Like they don't properly want to sell that. 343 00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:43.259 And so, you know, they tone it down by still making it ancient and weird, but not ancient and weird in a sort of mediaeval Catholicism kind of way. 344 00:31:43.319 --> 00:31:46.140 I wonder if they'd get on with Commander Riker. 345 00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:48.059 They are very keen on consent. 346 00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:50.220 Yes, they are making consent. 347 00:31:51.180 --> 00:31:54.240 This is our intimacy coordinator. 348 00:31:56.460 --> 00:31:59.279 But I mean, that's the thing, isn't it? 349 00:31:59.339 --> 00:32:00.839 Like consent is love. 350 00:32:00.900 --> 00:32:04.140 Like love is slavery and that's what they're saying. 351 00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:07.500 They don't want someone to calculate the odds. 352 00:32:07.559 --> 00:32:09.000 They don't want someone to lie to them. 353 00:32:09.059 --> 00:32:10.920 They really, really want to be loved. 354 00:32:10.980 --> 00:32:19.680 And when it opens next week, we have, you know, the film strip, the information film, explaining to you how you should love the monks and why. 355 00:32:19.740 --> 00:32:27.960 So all of that, I think, is super interesting, that is different from why or how aliens normally take over the earth. 356 00:32:27.960 --> 00:32:37.019 And the rules are made very clear, I think, throughout the episode, but it does tie in, I think, thematically to that idea of what the monks represent. 357 00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:47.519 And it is to that amazing ending where averting the biological calamity and restoring the doctor's site is the worst thing that could possibly happen. 358 00:32:47.579 --> 00:32:52.799 And that's some really elegant plotting from Peter Harness and Stephen Moffatt there. 359 00:32:52.859 --> 00:32:54.000 That's just gorgeous. 360 00:32:54.240 --> 00:33:03.359 What I think is amazing, though, is that we avert the calamity and the monks are defeated. 361 00:33:03.420 --> 00:33:07.559 Like they're looking at their watch as they're kind of going, oh no, like we've got it horribly wrong. 362 00:33:07.619 --> 00:33:09.180 This is really bad. 363 00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:11.880 You know, we're all sort of terribly triumphant. 364 00:33:11.940 --> 00:33:19.440 And the only reason is it's that sort of door thing, emergency protocol, so Erica can't do anything. 365 00:33:19.500 --> 00:33:26.279 Nah, doll's been infected by the thing, so he can't turn the camera on and see from the Tartars, you know, he's lying on the throat of the Tartars. 366 00:33:26.339 --> 00:33:28.440 Like all of these dumb little things happen. 367 00:33:28.500 --> 00:33:38.279 The sort of dumb little things that the doctor mentions in his opening monologue all happen that make the doctor have to die that make Bill agree, that make her consent. 368 00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:40.680 And I think that's so brilliantly done. 369 00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:48.539 Like it's just in the manner of about 30 seconds where we deal with sort of possible ways we could have dealt with it and there's all a silly little dumb reason why it doesn't work. 370 00:33:48.599 --> 00:33:51.660 And in a normal episode that's over, isn't it? 371 00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:54.839 Like at the normal episode, he gets out and suddenly it doesn't happen. 372 00:33:54.900 --> 00:34:02.099 And I think that that's quite shocking and I can't remember if we knew going in, whether it was a monk trilogy or not. 373 00:34:02.220 --> 00:34:03.299 I don't remember. 374 00:34:03.779 --> 00:34:04.980 I didn't. 375 00:34:05.099 --> 00:34:08.099 People talk all the time about the banality of evil. 376 00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:10.079 This is like the banality of tragedy. 377 00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:12.659 And I absolutely love that. 378 00:34:12.719 --> 00:34:13.559 That's amazing. 379 00:34:13.619 --> 00:34:22.380 It's really good And the only reason it has to happen is because she loves him and wants to save him because he's stuck. 380 00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:23.579 He's already saved the day. 381 00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:25.559 She knows he's already saved. 382 00:34:25.619 --> 00:34:26.519 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 383 00:34:26.579 --> 00:34:30.900 And so the only reason she does it is because he's going to die. 384 00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:35.219 And so she dooms the entire world just to save her friend. 385 00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:36.960 It's brilliant, isn't it? 386 00:34:37.019 --> 00:34:41.699 Because we have the faint, the original faint is World War 3 in made up a stand. 387 00:34:41.820 --> 00:34:45.659 And then we get the biological catastrophe and that doesn't happen either. 388 00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:46.980 And then we get this. 389 00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:47.880 It's so good. 390 00:34:47.940 --> 00:34:53.039 And I think that that's why this is better than I, than I remember it being. 391 00:34:53.099 --> 00:35:00.780 I think this is a solidly good Doctor Who episode, even if I think the, you know, some of the war stuff seems a little bit undercooked, but it's clear why. 392 00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:04.739 And I assume everyone on this call has seen or read the Andromeda strain? 393 00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:05.280 No. 394 00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:06.239 Not for years. 395 00:35:06.300 --> 00:35:08.940 Yes, the original 70s film. 396 00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:09.179 Yeah. 397 00:35:09.239 --> 00:35:09.420 Yeah. 398 00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:10.500 Oh, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 399 00:35:10.559 --> 00:35:13.440 Because the gag at the end of that, spoilers for the Andromeda strain. 400 00:35:13.500 --> 00:35:22.980 It's a really weird book and film, actually, especially weird film because it is so much about the problem of how to kill this virus. 401 00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:25.559 And so little about the personalities of anybody involved. 402 00:35:25.619 --> 00:35:45.539 But the thing you take at the end and starts eating rubber gaskets and so can escape from the lab and that triggers the automatic detonation of the lab, but they figure out that this will just cause the virus to be spread over a wide area and mutate further. 403 00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:46.860 So they have to shut it down. 404 00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:49.320 And so then there's this race against time bit at the end. 405 00:35:49.380 --> 00:35:53.159 But there's a line, I end up just sort of quoting in everyday situations. 406 00:35:54.000 --> 00:36:07.139 I think might be from the novel, not from the movie, where when they finally managed to turn the key and stop it, and he collapses because he's been shot by these anaesthetic dance, when he wakes up, he says, did I get there in time? 407 00:36:07.139 --> 00:36:09.539 and they say, yeah, 30 seconds left, hardly even exciting. 408 00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:29.039 There's a real twilight zone quality to this entire episode, really, because you've got all this wordplay around what consent means and what pure consent is that ends up being love is consent, love is slavery. 409 00:36:29.099 --> 00:36:39.480 You've got, um, the fact that the doctor can save the world, but, you know, then he's stopped by a door, which is a thing that Russell T. Davies said back in 2005. 410 00:36:39.719 --> 00:36:41.880 You don't want a door to stop your story. 411 00:36:41.880 --> 00:36:42.780 Yes. 412 00:36:42.780 --> 00:36:45.300 With the sonic screwdriver being introduced, you know. 413 00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:53.699 But something it really reminds me of, and going back to what you were saying, James, about the initial conception of the monks being sort of time sensitives. 414 00:36:53.760 --> 00:37:03.480 First of all, one, this is another time I'm going to say this, over the course of the new series, there's been 2 times I've said, why couldn't it be Farrell's? 415 00:37:03.539 --> 00:37:07.500 But the fact it happens in consecutive seasons is kind of significant. 416 00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:16.619 But two, they also remind me of the Traelfamadorians from the works of Kurt Voniget, who are a time sensitive species. 417 00:37:16.679 --> 00:37:18.780 They see in 4 dimensions. 418 00:37:18.840 --> 00:37:21.539 So they already know that they're dead. 419 00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:35.639 They already know they're alive, they're incredibly fatalistic, and the monks here have that line of, you know, we appear as corpses because all of you are corpses, like all of you exist and you don't exist and you've lived and you're dead and et cetera, et cetera. 420 00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:38.039 And you know, it's an excuse for them to look like corpses. 421 00:37:38.099 --> 00:37:44.760 But it does hint to that relationship that they have with time where they can see all these different time threads. 422 00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:50.280 You know, Sylvester McCoy saying, you know, from various perspectives of time. 423 00:37:50.340 --> 00:37:51.000 You've already left. 424 00:37:51.059 --> 00:37:53.639 You've been here before, you haven't even arrived yet. 425 00:37:53.940 --> 00:38:08.159 There's a lot going on under the surface of this that perhaps doesn't get fully explored, but I don't think it really matters because what we've got is so solid that we can just go, oh, I wonder if this is what they were going for. 426 00:38:08.219 --> 00:38:13.559 I wonder if that's what they were going for, but it doesn't detract if it's not fully spelt out. 427 00:38:13.619 --> 00:38:16.739 I think I'm happy that we never see the monks again. 428 00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:21.539 Like, I don't think they're like the silence or the weeping angels. 429 00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:24.239 They're not, you know, Moffatt's most successful creation. 430 00:38:24.300 --> 00:38:27.840 And I do think, you know, the way that they look like corpses. 431 00:38:27.900 --> 00:38:37.800 Like they look like those corpses that were kind of recovered from peat bogs or something like that, you know, that you see photos of in a history lesson or something at school. 432 00:38:37.860 --> 00:38:40.440 Like they look like corpses in a particular way. 433 00:38:40.500 --> 00:38:43.500 They're not just sort of standard issue zombies. 434 00:38:43.559 --> 00:38:58.139 I got the impression, I mean, or maybe I'm misremembering this, that the monks were actually an idea that harness had for this script, which Moffatt then he saw the potential in them and decided, oh, we could do a link to 3 parter. 435 00:38:58.199 --> 00:39:02.699 And so wrote extremists with the monks being introduced. 436 00:39:02.760 --> 00:39:07.920 And then it's, you know, followed up, following me by Toby Woodhouse, yeah. 437 00:39:08.280 --> 00:39:12.000 Also, there were supposed to be kung fu monks. 438 00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:16.860 That could only have improved this 3 partner, I think. 439 00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:19.139 Don't you think? 440 00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:20.579 Kung Fu Monks, awesome. 441 00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:21.960 Kung Fu Corpse Monks. 442 00:39:22.019 --> 00:39:34.500 Even in a very late script at the end after the agreement has been reached, yeah, the script describes, a monk jumps on Bill's back and, you know, that that's part of the ending of it. 443 00:39:34.559 --> 00:39:42.119 I don't think that makes them seem like kind of formidable and austere religious figures that part. 444 00:39:42.179 --> 00:39:43.199 Do you know what I mean? 445 00:39:43.260 --> 00:39:43.920 So, yeah. 446 00:39:43.980 --> 00:39:44.940 Although. 447 00:39:57.599 --> 00:40:07.019 They've been able to save money by having one actor do all the voices, so they do that 10th planet Cyberman thing of just having their mouths open and then tones coming out. 448 00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:12.840 I did say last week that I thought that that looked stupid and I still kind of think it looks stupid. 449 00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:13.920 It's not ideal. 450 00:40:13.980 --> 00:40:23.519 The only other thing I think lets the episode down at all is that crucial combination lock does not look like any lock on any door that's ever existed. 451 00:40:23.579 --> 00:40:26.940 It looks like it's made out of duplo. 452 00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:32.940 Yeah, and I think, I mean, maybe this is one of those things where just efficiency trumps detail. 453 00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:36.059 But I think a keypad would have made much more sense. 454 00:40:36.119 --> 00:40:46.800 And then you get over the fact that he would be able to feel the combination on the keypad, just by making the combination longer, so Erica doesn't know it and can't call it out to him, I think that would have worked just as well. 455 00:40:46.920 --> 00:40:53.519 Or, you know, like you're at Elgato stream deck, where it changes the numbers around for kind of security reasons. 456 00:40:53.579 --> 00:40:56.099 So you don't know which numbers to press or something like that. 457 00:40:56.280 --> 00:41:09.659 I thought that the business with him setting the timer for 2 minutes or something where he, you can tell that he can't see and he is just sort of tapping twice to make sure that he knows that the, that the time is 2 minutes. 458 00:41:09.780 --> 00:41:28.860 Can we just talk about Erica again for a 2nd because there's that moment, that incredible moment where she says, you know that the bacteria are creating ethanol and you can use the ethanol to trigger your explosion and he just says, oh, look, I'm going to come back and, you know, we'll, he says something about like, you know, inviting her out or... 459 00:41:28.860 --> 00:41:30.239 Yeah, what are you doing? 460 00:41:30.300 --> 00:41:30.719 Yeah, yeah. 461 00:41:30.780 --> 00:41:31.440 What are you doing after? 462 00:41:31.500 --> 00:41:33.360 Basically inviting her to be a companion. 463 00:41:33.420 --> 00:41:34.320 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 464 00:41:34.440 --> 00:41:35.699 Would you like to travel the universe? 465 00:41:35.760 --> 00:41:36.420 Yes. 466 00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:37.800 I mean, she's so good. 467 00:41:37.860 --> 00:41:42.659 And like the 2 of them work really well together and she's so terrifically enthusiastic. 468 00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:44.579 I just thought that was great. 469 00:41:44.639 --> 00:41:47.280 She's one of the sort of great guest stars of the year, I think. 470 00:41:47.340 --> 00:41:52.019 There's a bit they had to cut because they cut out an earlier gagline. 471 00:41:52.139 --> 00:41:54.599 Unfortunately, this two-part joke gets cut. 472 00:41:54.659 --> 00:41:59.280 So early on, Erica's like, how could, you know, how can you stand to go in there and stand the feuds? 473 00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:07.559 And he says, I'm Scottish and Baby Bio wouldn't even phase me, you know, and it's his old gardening product. 474 00:42:07.619 --> 00:42:10.920 And when he says to her later, what are you doing after this? 475 00:42:10.980 --> 00:42:14.099 There is a follow-up line where he says, anyone else? 476 00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:17.159 And I still would have been explaining that baby bio joke, but you got it. 477 00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:25.380 I mean, all of that, that business actually is actually quite effectively done, isn't it? 478 00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:27.239 Because it's done very sort of quickly. 479 00:42:27.300 --> 00:42:34.980 We just assume that the doctor, we get a little bit of conversation between Nadol and the doctor, Nadol says he's not human, the doctor says, I got your lungs on the cheap. 480 00:42:35.039 --> 00:42:41.460 You better go inside anyway, and of course, he has to be incapacitated for the thing to work at the end. 481 00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:50.760 So all of that done very neatly and very quickly without us feeling like we're having to head cannon anything or we're having to sit and listen to a boring explanation. 482 00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:54.360 And I think that that's a thing that this episode does very well. 483 00:42:54.360 --> 00:43:00.179 And something that next week's is not going to do very well. 484 00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:03.000 No, next week's I didn't rewatch. 485 00:43:03.059 --> 00:43:10.619 I really wanted to rewatch next week's when I got to the end of this one, but I didn't have time, but my recollection is it's entertaining, but it's a bit of a mess. 486 00:43:10.860 --> 00:43:18.119 I do have one other problem with the chemical institute in this story. 487 00:43:18.179 --> 00:43:19.980 And yes, absolutely. 488 00:43:20.039 --> 00:43:23.760 Like the combination, the combination lock that doesn't even work, like a combination lock. 489 00:43:23.820 --> 00:43:27.719 Like the Tumblers don't stop on any of the numbers, they just keep tumbling. 490 00:43:29.159 --> 00:43:43.139 But my actual problem is, you know, you have this facility that's capable of going into lockdown, because you are dealing with dangerous chemicals, why would it have an option to directly vent into the atmosphere? 491 00:43:43.380 --> 00:43:50.039 When you're using bacteria, which could be really dangerous to the human race? 492 00:43:50.099 --> 00:43:51.840 Also, no one else is in the building. 493 00:43:51.900 --> 00:43:52.920 It is just them. 494 00:43:52.980 --> 00:43:53.820 Do you know what I mean? 495 00:43:53.880 --> 00:43:54.900 Like, I think we see some people. 496 00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:56.159 Do we see some people initially? 497 00:43:56.159 --> 00:43:58.559 But when the whole crisis happens, the building's empty. 498 00:43:58.619 --> 00:43:59.159 No one else is there. 499 00:43:59.219 --> 00:44:00.840 They've all gone out to lunch or something. 500 00:44:00.900 --> 00:44:06.119 No one invited Erica and Douglas to the staff Christmas party because they're weird and annoying. 501 00:44:06.179 --> 00:44:08.579 And so they were always breaking their glasses. 502 00:44:08.639 --> 00:44:09.300 Yeah, that's right. 503 00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:15.659 There's other science fiction trope, the bomb that someone has to stay behind and detonate because that's how bombs are made. 504 00:44:15.719 --> 00:44:19.559 There's a roaring trade for bombs like that. 505 00:44:19.679 --> 00:44:20.699 That's right. 506 00:44:20.760 --> 00:44:31.260 Okay, no one ever invented a bomb that you can just sit and make it go to where you want. a bond where you could push a button, then it would go off a little bit later. 507 00:44:31.380 --> 00:44:31.920 Later. 508 00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:33.179 That's always a good plan. 509 00:44:33.239 --> 00:44:33.840 No, that's broken. 510 00:44:33.900 --> 00:44:40.380 It's like having, it was like a couple of weeks ago where, where in the middle of where the hell are we? 511 00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:41.340 Where are we? 512 00:44:41.400 --> 00:44:42.000 Are we Bristol? 513 00:44:42.059 --> 00:44:42.480 Where are we? 514 00:44:42.539 --> 00:44:43.739 Bristol, where are we this season? 515 00:44:43.800 --> 00:44:45.780 Right in the middle of resented, by the way. 516 00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:48.059 Ah, we get an Uber. 517 00:44:48.119 --> 00:44:49.199 Okay, Uberline. next week. 518 00:44:49.260 --> 00:44:49.980 Yeah, sorry, this week. 519 00:44:50.039 --> 00:44:50.340 Next week. 520 00:44:50.340 --> 00:44:51.000 This week. 521 00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:51.300 This week. 522 00:44:51.360 --> 00:44:51.539 Yeah. 523 00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:54.780 Yeah, a few weeks ago in Bristol, USA. mobile phone signal. 524 00:44:54.840 --> 00:44:56.219 That house? 525 00:44:56.280 --> 00:44:57.179 Why is that? 526 00:44:57.239 --> 00:44:57.900 That makes sense. 527 00:44:57.960 --> 00:44:58.199 Yeah. 528 00:44:58.199 --> 00:44:59.579 Yeah, just call Bill. 529 00:44:59.579 --> 00:45:01.380 Stop, stop sending popes into her bedroom. 530 00:45:01.739 --> 00:45:03.960 Clearly the other been to Bristol. 531 00:45:04.019 --> 00:45:05.340 Yeah, okay. 532 00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:07.320 Maybe it's a whole 5G dead zone. 533 00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:13.739 The other thing I really liked is the doctor blinding the monks to figure out which camera they turn back on. 534 00:45:13.800 --> 00:45:15.119 That's very neat. 535 00:45:15.179 --> 00:45:24.599 It did remind me of an old joke that I've actually put in several scripts now about how do you tell if the government is bugging your phone? 536 00:45:25.320 --> 00:45:27.300 Stop paying the bill. 537 00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:34.139 I mean, it is really neat, isn't it? 538 00:45:34.199 --> 00:45:35.219 He's really neat. 539 00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:41.940 It's the 1st time for a while that I've just felt, you know, everything is just very neatly done and set up in a good way. 540 00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:57.360 And that, that is brilliant where we go from, there are 200,000 of these things and we winnow it down and it's still 428 or whatever, but he finds the way of bringing it down from, you know, it's just like, which ones have reached stage two? 541 00:45:57.420 --> 00:45:59.460 You know, which ones are using bacteria or whatever. 542 00:45:59.519 --> 00:46:02.280 Like it all makes sense and it all really works very well. 543 00:46:02.340 --> 00:46:03.719 It's very clever, I think. 544 00:46:03.780 --> 00:46:07.260 I could have done without the GM Fairmongering, but that's a minor point. 545 00:46:07.320 --> 00:46:08.039 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 546 00:46:08.099 --> 00:46:09.059 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 547 00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:09.780 Yeah. 548 00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:19.079 Well, funny, you know, like the the doomsday clock is now currently sitting at a comfortable 45 seconds to midnight. right now. 549 00:46:19.139 --> 00:46:21.599 So, yeah. 550 00:46:21.659 --> 00:46:28.739 But we didn't mention climate, but obviously climate isn't going to kill everyone in the next kind of half an hour or whatever. 551 00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:30.599 You know, we're not all going to be dead in a year. 552 00:46:30.719 --> 00:46:39.000 Also, there were a lot of trees in the future, which I thought there probably shouldn't be if it was all the plants being killed, but like whatever. 553 00:46:39.539 --> 00:46:41.460 Well, they were dead. 554 00:46:41.579 --> 00:46:44.400 Dead palm trees, lovely. 555 00:46:44.460 --> 00:46:51.420 Look, we know from Doctor Who and the Daleks in colour that you can have trees in a Dead Forest. there you go. 556 00:46:51.480 --> 00:46:51.960 There you go. 557 00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:04.199 I really enjoyed watching this again. 558 00:47:04.260 --> 00:47:05.340 I think that's what I want to say. 559 00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:14.940 This is a really, really good slab of TV, I think, everybody involved in it is really operating pretty much at the peak of their powers. 560 00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:18.000 I'd forgotten just how bloody good Pearl Mackie is. 561 00:47:18.059 --> 00:47:22.980 It's really a shame we only got her for one season because she is fantastic. 562 00:47:23.219 --> 00:47:30.960 And the Dr. Nardal Bill relationship, I think, is great, even if Nardal's a bit underused this time round. 563 00:47:31.019 --> 00:47:36.000 He sometimes has a reason to be there unlike certain companions in certain series, I could mention. 564 00:47:36.420 --> 00:47:39.599 And it was just a real pleasure to watch this again. 565 00:47:39.599 --> 00:47:57.539 And to see Stephen Moffat and Peter Harness, finding that balance that I talked about at the beginning between, on the one hand, a perfectly structured story can still fail to move you because it feels artificial as if we are just inserting Tabet into slot B in order to make things work. 566 00:47:57.599 --> 00:48:05.880 But equally, if the story is a mess and the pieces don't mesh together, then it can be hard to be moved because you're just like, oh, we're doing that now. 567 00:48:05.940 --> 00:48:06.780 We're going over here now. 568 00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:08.519 It just becomes a jumble. 569 00:48:08.579 --> 00:48:12.840 This, I think, is really accurately located at that sweet spot in the middle. 570 00:48:12.900 --> 00:48:19.800 Everything's there for a purpose, but nothing feels as if its only purpose is to be part of the scaffolding that supports the story. 571 00:48:43.860 --> 00:48:46.139 Well, that's all the time we have for this week. 572 00:48:46.199 --> 00:48:53.519 We'll be back next week for a glimpse into our horrifying and inexorable theocratic future in the lie of the land. 573 00:48:53.880 --> 00:49:12.119 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us on our website, flightthroughentirety.com, where you'll find our social media links as well as links to all of our other podcasts, including our other Doctor Who podcasts, 500-year diary, and the 2nd great and bountiful Human Empire. 574 00:49:12.599 --> 00:49:17.699 Until next time, perhaps we should consider making fractions a thing again. 575 00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:20.460 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 576 00:49:20.579 --> 00:49:21.360 Good night. 577 00:49:21.420 --> 00:49:22.679 Ta ta. 578 00:49:22.739 --> 00:49:23.639 Julio. 579 00:49:30.539 --> 00:49:36.659 That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Nathan Bodley, Brendan Jones, Tom Selinski and James Selwood. 580 00:49:36.780 --> 00:49:38.820 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. 581 00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:45.360 This episode, narrative vamping, was recorded on the 7th of September 2024 and released on the 27th of October. 582 00:49:46.980 --> 00:49:59.519 Tom Zelinski can also be found between the covers of his new book, Star Trek, Discovering the TV series, in which he reviews all the episodes of the original series, the animated series, and the next generation. 583 00:49:59.579 --> 00:50:01.260 See the show notes for details. 584 00:50:04.800 --> 00:50:08.039 It's a wrap up, in a way. 585 00:50:08.099 --> 00:50:10.380 There's some great ideas, isn't it? 586 00:50:10.440 --> 00:50:11.699 It's got Michelle Gomez. 587 00:50:11.760 --> 00:50:13.260 So, you know, like I'm there for that. 588 00:50:13.320 --> 00:50:26.760 I watched them all in one day as a kind of movie length thing and as a, it'd be a great omnibus, actually, with some of the golf edited out. 589 00:50:26.820 --> 00:50:33.300 Um, like it holds to them much better as a single story than it does. 590 00:50:33.360 --> 00:50:34.440 Do you mean extremists? 591 00:50:35.639 --> 00:50:40.079 So yeah, I so here's what I said about extremist this might be the tech. 592 00:50:40.139 --> 00:50:49.380 What I said about extremists was that the central conceit doesn't make any sense because if you discover you're in a simulation, What? 593 00:50:49.440 --> 00:50:50.760 Do you know what I mean? 594 00:50:50.820 --> 00:50:51.239 Like what? 595 00:50:51.300 --> 00:51:04.199 You know, it's like that beat where, you know, at the end of journeys end, uh, Billy Piper's left on a beach with a duplicate David Tennant, and you kind of think, is this a good thing or a bad thing? 596 00:51:04.199 --> 00:51:07.920 I don't know how, how am I supposed to feel about these, like, donuts? 597 00:51:07.980 --> 00:51:08.699 Titan comics. 598 00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:14.039 I remember Joey Pants and the Matrix. you know the steak tastes just as good. 599 00:51:14.099 --> 00:51:16.019 Yeah, right. 600 00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:20.340 Well, so it's just it's like, so that doesn't sort of seem to mean anything. 601 00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:22.800 And we said something like, why are we in CERN? 602 00:51:22.920 --> 00:51:29.699 And we sort of said, like, like if CERN could have blown up the simulation or whatever. 603 00:51:29.760 --> 00:51:30.480 Do you know what I mean? 604 00:51:30.539 --> 00:51:36.420 sort of just a line away from making it all make sense, but it doesn't actually quite land there. 605 00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:39.719 I don't know why they're killing themselves. at all, you know. 606 00:51:39.780 --> 00:51:42.480 And of course, the random number thing is just absolute nonsense. 607 00:51:42.599 --> 00:51:45.000 Yeah, existential crisis doesn't exist. 608 00:51:45.059 --> 00:51:46.980 Yeah, but you do. 609 00:51:47.039 --> 00:51:54.659 You can't have an existential crisis if you don't exist, but, you know, like, I think therefore I am, you know, like, like they exist. 610 00:51:54.719 --> 00:51:56.880 You can't say to someone, you don't exist. 611 00:51:56.940 --> 00:52:00.179 I mean, that's why that's a good line because it does, you know, whatever. 612 00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:06.420 I do have one other problem with the with the chemical institute in this story.