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NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:02:36

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Hello and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast populated entirely by narrow hipped vixens and long shanked rascals with mighty noses.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Elizabeth Slyn's Thorax for this episode.

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And that can mean only one thing.

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We are discussing season 11 of Doctor Who.

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The final season of John Pertwey's Doctor, but the 1st season of Dame Saint Elizabeth Slayton.

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Yes.

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DSSL.

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What an E in, this is an E in this song.

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O-B-E. So without any further ado, I think we shall head, yea, and verily, to the Middle Ages for the time warrior.

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Hey, we're here, bunk.

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That was the sound of a special effect by Alan Bromley.

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Did you miss it?

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Because you don't need special effects.

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You can really just flash a light on and off outside a cardboard window and that'll do.

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Is this everybody's favourite all time story, possibly?

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It's my favourite of the season, I think.

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I think Carnival of Monsters is a better homes per 2 story, but this is pretty good and for similar reasons, I think.

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I think we should start at the very beginning being the very best place to start.

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Nathan, you I believe you were just saying that this season holds your very 1st memorable moment of watching who.

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This is my 1st, all the boys at school were saying, oh, you know, getting frightened of Doctor Who, and, you know, Doctor Who's terribly frightened.

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I said, it's not.

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There's nothing frightening and I wanted to be frightened.

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And then at the end of episode one of Time Warrior.

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There's the reveal.

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Kevin Lindsay shows this big ugly Australian bonce. you know, in a big brown rubber condom, and it's, um, with the greatest joke of civilisation that the helmet perfectly fits the shape of the head.

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That was like the real design.

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And then he does that thing with his tongue and you realise it's new Doctor Who, and it will never be the same again.

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And it was frightening. the only moment I've ever been afraid of this story.

31
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And I saw links that they put at my bed that night in 1975.

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Yes, I had Kevin Lindsay the front of my bed.

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It's my favourite title sequence in the history of everything.

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I think me too.

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Really?

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It's just, have we talked about the occult effect and stimulus of that was going around at the time in popular music and popular film in England.

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They call it Black Aquarius.

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It now has the Black Aquarian movement.

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Mark Gatis has blogged about it and been interviewed about this period in British folklore, if you like, for the end of the 60s with the time of light aquarian.

40
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They even mention, when they talk about this era, the demons, and that that was picking up on this really satanic movement in, I guess, pop culture.

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I mean, it all dribbles down to you get Hammer horror films.

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You get a lot of Carolyn Monroe.

43
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But the Doctor Who title sequence itself under the pertly era, the early, the 1st 4 seasons, is very much picking up on that.

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There was the right of weight tarot where everybody, every party you went to, someone pulled out a deck of the right of weight tarot that everybody's seen.

45
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So that kind of neo-Arthurian thing, that it goes back to Alistair Crowley and his golden dawn.

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Alistair Crowley's face was actually used for the character of Blowfeld.

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His appearance is based on that.

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So in the 67 film, you only live twice.

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Donald Pleasant's appearance is based very much on Alistair Crowley's face.

50
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Without that.

51
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We didn't have a beard as such, but he had, nor did he have a cat, but just that very round face and no earlobes that Blowfeld is famous about.

52
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But Crowley was a famous mountaineer, just like Brian Blessed.

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Lots of thing to do with Brian Blessard.

54
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And, and, you know, and the whole cult of magic, but they were dark satanic rituals going on at, um, and the, several commons and and heaths around England, people were reporting odd goings on.

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Carolyn Monroe talked about doing a shoot of a film where they were conducting a satanic rite and suddenly all the props, curtains started moving, but there was no air in the studio.

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Mark Gaters loves telling that story.

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That's actually been picked up on by a big Finnish play as well by John Dorney called Special Features.

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It's part of their 4 stories in single episodes, releases that they do from time to time, and this is Peter Davidson.

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This is the 5th doctor pretty much giving a hammer horror commentary.

60
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And it's talking about all these spooky things that happen.

61
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And being a Doctor Who story, it's all down to an alien influence, but it very cleverly evokes that whole Hammer horror period.

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It reminds me a few weeks ago, a very good friend of the podcast, John Edwards Davies, shared on our page, a very rare interview with Peter Cushing. in which Peter talks about his work on Hammer, and offers the very interesting perspective that Frankenstein doesn't believe that he's evil.

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Frankenstein is trying to save lives.

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Through his experiments, you know, and all these pesky villages keep turning up with pitchforks.

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So it kind of...

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Morris dancing about...

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Morris dancing about the place.

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I mean, Morris was very popular.

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He was, wasn't he?

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We're actually in season 11 and we've kind of moved on, I guess, from all of that, but we've still got a taste of it in what's left, what's left of that cult in British culture, if you like, that's kind of disappearing by 74, 75 when everyone's having to face the darker realities of economic crisis and on the end of a folk era.

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But the title sequence still has a taste of that.

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This one, of course, this season now, I kind of feel like it's the greatest hits of Pertwe, isn't it?

73
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And if we're jumping further ahead.

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But for all of that, this is the 1st time time meddler doesn't count.

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This is the 1st time we actually have how we now see pretty much once a season in Doctor Who, we got an historic story with a monster.

76
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Do you know, I was actually thinking that as well.

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So is this the birth of, we call them the pseudo-historicals now.

78
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But do you think abominable snowmen is pseudo-historical?

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Because they're robo wants to try. about 30, 40, 40 years before the present day.

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I think this is the 1st proper one.

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Do you know what I mean?

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It's the one that's held up as being, you know, where the writers go to when you want to do it.

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Because it was surprisingly more successful, maybe not so much in the ratings where I think it was pretty much the same as everything else.

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They started too early.

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Remember they started in December rather than in January.

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So a lot of the audience members didn't actually know that Doctor Who was on for some reason.

87
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So it only picked up. a week and a half before Christmas on the 15th of December.

88
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Yeah.

89
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And Barry Letts was, you know, a lot of this season, you're getting terrific writers coming in, you know, the all the old stalwarts because Barry and Terry going off and doing their spectacular new show called Moonbase 3 Don't we all remember that?

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Well?

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Golly.

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They really, they really were.

93
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They really were trying, weren't they?

94
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Well, I can't wait till we get to invasion of the dinosaurs and we can talk more about Mendes 3 and just whatever happened to that one.

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But yeah, this is a fave story. apparently. all I can, all I can think of is just, you know, so much of it that's in the glaring strobe lighting of history where, okay, we've got a new companion.

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The utterly adorable Elizabeth Sladden, who apparently, well, according to the production team, oh, it's time we had a character who, you know, was interested in women's libs.

97
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So didn't you have that actually in 1970?

98
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Oh yeah, but no, this one, this time, you know, it will be, she'll be really, really strongly a woman's liver.

99
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And we'll make sure by making every single character in this story, utterly sexist in their remarks, up to and including than a deer of Pertweese comments, you know, when they 1st meet.

100
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Oh, it is just, it's pretty appalling.

101
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I mean, even Professor Rubish. my favourite line actually from Professor Ruby, she'll say the show has never done before or since.

102
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Remember when he looks at pertly and says, I should have thought he was a bit old for that sort of thing by now.

103
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Yes, yes.

104
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I thought I thought that was wonderful.

105
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I mean, I think this is the 1st time that someone has mistaken the doctor companion relationship for a romantic or sexual one.

106
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Yeah, aside from the viewers, obviously going, oh, Billy just wants to cuddle up with Barbara.

107
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Yeah, well, you know, didn't we all?

108
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Yeah, I think I think it's they's kind of throw it for us as the audience as well.

109
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To, um, just wonder where this new companion fits in and how she's going to fit.

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Do you know the origins of Sarah?

111
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There was going to be a girl companion plus another companion called Smith who would be allied to unit on a kind of pro rata sort of basis, just floating about and being a spy on the ground and filtering stories to them.

112
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So somehow involved in the modern press, you know, new media.

113
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And if odd goings on were happening, a bit department S, really, that there would be, or, you know, so she was a girly Jason King, if you like, and she was a writer who was a journalist who was also going to be, you know, able to tell them if odd things were happening. outside their usual means of investigation.

114
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The way that Mickey Smith calls, um, in school reunion calls the doctor and Rosebank to investigate Strange.

115
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No, it's funny you say that because, yes, someone else has picked up on that as well on one of the blogs.

116
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I don't think it was at the Sand if I...

117
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We haven't mentioned Santa Fe at this broadcast, have we?

118
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And what he, do you know what, Sandy?

119
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will.

120
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Take a drink, dear, listen.

121
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Take a drink, dear, listen.

122
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Well, it's interesting.

123
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I mean, does everyone know the story of the Time Warrior?

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Do you think the listener knows them?

125
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I think it is worth...

126
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I think it is worth talking about because they hadn't been back in time. like there's a bit in time, Monster, but essentially we haven't travelled back in time. doesn't really count. does it?

127
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No.

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Holmes was given the job of writing something mediaeval by Terrence Dix, the script editor.

129
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And as usual, if you give home something to do that he doesn't want to do, he will, he'll do it for you in a way that you don't really want.

130
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And so, and so he actually actively subverts and makes fun of the whole mediaeval setting.

131
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So the mediaeval setting is as thin as humanly possible.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Like it's got King Richard's off at the Crusades, but that's really basically it.

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It's 2 castles in an isolated forest with nothing, no other world building of any sort of kind.

135
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And then when Sarah turns up.

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She actually massively undermines the whole thing.

137
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Exactly.

138
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He points it all out, yeah.

139
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She says, you know, is it a themed restaurant?

140
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Do you know what I mean?

141
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film set.

142
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Is it a, and then there's a fantastic moment where she accuses Iron Gronen Blood Axe, more of him later.

143
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I think because they're the loveliest romantic couple should ever appear in Doctor Who up to this point.

144
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She accuses them of overdoing the sordid realism.

145
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And Holmes has got to be writing that line aware of the fact that it's just going to be a studio with a bit of straw on the floor and sort of painted walls and there's going to be no sordid realism sort of anywhere near it.

146
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You know, he deliberately subverts it.

147
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And then he will take his revenge on Terrence by making him write a lighthouse story in a couple of years time.

148
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What's also amazing about that whole scene with Sarah saying you're overdoing the sort of realism a bit.

149
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I know the tourists expect a bit of grot or whatever, is that Sarah is perfectly fine in in her element and thinks she knows what's going on until she sees an alien, not the TARDIS, which is bigger on the inside than the outside.

150
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Not a bunch of people running around like it's the Middle Ages.

151
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Oh, maybe it really is.

152
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No, it takes a bloody alien to flap Sarah Jane Smith.

153
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She is fabulous and she's hitting, like, she gets caught by someone and she's just slapping him repeatedly as he drags her off.

154
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It's quite a bit of Bugs Money Looney tunes in this merry, you know, in this...

155
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I don't know, and some nice little nods again to, um, not mentioning Gatis again, and my favourite Robin Hood version is the 1938 one with Basel Rathbone and Errol Flynn.

156
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There's some little lovely moments of this, but I don't think we've ever had a character like Iron Grown before.

157
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I don't even know if we've had one since.

158
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David Dacre.

159
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Well, you know it was actually going to who it was going to be, don't you?

160
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No.

161
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I was a Bob Hoskins.

162
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Brilliant.

163
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It's so clever, isn't it?

164
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Well done.

165
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Linda, you're...

166
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Yeah, it was Bob Hoskins, but he got sadly involved with something else, but I'm really glad we have David Dacre.

167
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And John Carney, I think it is, who plays Blood Ox, was actually cast for his looks because they said that he would be sort of the internet twilated and kind of an gaman compared to the stocky, ruddy David Daker.

168
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So just a lovely coupling.

169
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And the adoration in his eyes when he's looking at it.

170
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But I'm reminded again of that of that Looney Tunes character, of the bulldog and the little puppy running around, doing the same thing. you can just sort of think, oh, look, you two.

171
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I don't know.

172
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Well, they only have wenches to, you know, stir the oatmeal and lusty enough they are on that too.

173
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The dialogue is so, again, you know, because Holmes, the dialogue is really funny.

174
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And because he's making fun of the mediaeval thing.

175
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He has, he has them say things like beshroomy.

176
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You know, chicken-hearted knaves and way-faced poltroons and stuff like that. dialogue is...

177
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And it's sad that it's only a 4 parter and yet Monster of Peladon will get 6 episodes.

178
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Again, that was a cost saving measure because they already had the sets and they thought it would be cheaper for them.

179
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But you know what?

180
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Even the production crew at the time were sitting there saying, bloody hell, we've got Dot Cotton and that old Nance, Sir Edward, who later turns up as another old man, Doctor Who later on.

181
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Funnily enough.

182
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So Edward Wessex in the Time Warrior played by Alan Rowe.

183
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So he's in this story that Robert Holmes didn't want to write, and Terence Sticks forced him to write.

184
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And where does he turn up again, Nathan?

185
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Is he skin sale?

186
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Skin sale in Horror of Fang Rock here?

187
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Which is the story?

188
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He's skin sale, and he turns up in the horror of Fang Rock, which is the story Terrence Dix had to write for Robert Holmes.

189
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It's the revenge.

190
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It's the revenge story and even features the same actor.

191
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And of course, he was a longtime partner to Jeffrey Balden.

192
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He was.

193
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He was, our very own, our very own Jeffrey Berlin.

194
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And almost the doctor, I think, 3 times.

195
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Yeah, I think so.

196
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Billy Pertwee and Baker.

197
00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:52.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

198
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That Fred each time.

199
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And finally, of course, became the doctor on Big Finish opposite.

200
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Carol Anne Fool.

201
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He's a bit good in that too, isn't he?

202
00:14:59.220 --> 00:15:00.899
We always knew he would be a bit good in that.

203
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Speaking of, you know who it was meant to be, I think at this point we have to talk about the original Sarah Jane Smith.

204
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April Walker.

205
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April Walker.

206
00:15:09.419 --> 00:15:13.320
And did you know that Barry Lett's up until his dying breath would not reveal who that was?

207
00:15:13.379 --> 00:15:15.240
We had a fan out a year or two ago.

208
00:15:15.299 --> 00:15:16.259
Yeah, after he passed, yeah.

209
00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:22.019
And it was slipped in very quietly to the production subtitles of an invasion of the dinosaurs.

210
00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:28.379
And so she was cast and paid for an entire episode. the entire season.

211
00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:38.100
The reason that she was replaced is that pertly felt that someone of her stature, because she was tall, I think she was as tall as him and very solid.

212
00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:47.039
He's like, my doctor is protective and I won't be able to protect her and she's very overtly sexy and we shouldn't have an overtly sexy character was his was his view.

213
00:15:47.100 --> 00:15:50.460
And I think that's very churlish considering he chose to leave 3 months later.

214
00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:51.419
Yeah.

215
00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:52.860
She was devastated.

216
00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:53.759
Yeah.

217
00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:55.379
If you don't know who she is.

218
00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:57.600
She is in a Faulty Towers episode.

219
00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:02.639
And she plays Gene in the episode, the wedding party.

220
00:16:02.700 --> 00:16:04.019
Yeah, that's right.

221
00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:08.340
So, yeah, not the Australian that Basil, you know, bondles inadvertently.

222
00:16:08.340 --> 00:16:09.539
Yeah, looking for the light switch.

223
00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:10.139
No, no.

224
00:16:10.139 --> 00:16:15.480
But the woman who's going to the wedding and she is very tall and very confident and she would have been great.

225
00:16:15.539 --> 00:16:16.620
But we get Liz.

226
00:16:16.740 --> 00:16:17.820
Liz is amazing.

227
00:16:17.879 --> 00:16:19.320
She is really, really good.

228
00:16:19.379 --> 00:16:23.039
Like, I love Joe. Like, I think Joe's a great character.

229
00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:24.779
She's been terrific for these 3 years.

230
00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:26.100
Her leaving was devastating.

231
00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:31.019
But Liz is, she's sort of snarky and oppositional without being unlikeable.

232
00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:31.679
Yes.

233
00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:35.820
And she does scared and brave at the same time.

234
00:16:35.879 --> 00:16:38.820
And that's what they said she was so good at, no one else had been.

235
00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:39.360
And she is.

236
00:16:39.419 --> 00:16:42.299
She carries that off in stories further along the season.

237
00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:47.399
She really rescues key scenes in Death to the Daleks and Monster Peladon, just by being able to do that.

238
00:16:47.460 --> 00:16:50.460
But in this one, she's just sublimely perfect.

239
00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:58.860
And as Liz herself said, never again do you get Sarah Jane in such concentrated cordial flavour as you do in this one?

240
00:16:58.980 --> 00:17:01.320
It's really astringent SJS.

241
00:17:01.379 --> 00:17:05.279
You don't you don't ever get her being quite like this ever again.

242
00:17:05.339 --> 00:17:07.019
Do you know the 1st day of shooting, though?

243
00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:07.920
She was so nervous.

244
00:17:07.980 --> 00:17:16.200
It was when she's being carted into the, and some of her finest moments in there, so actually ad-libs or mistakes that they kept in because they found it so charming.

245
00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:17.700
She slips into Scouse.

246
00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:25.380
She a Liverpoolian lass, you know, and of course, when she gets cranky, Her line of I could murder a cup of tea, as she was getting more confident, was an ad lib.

247
00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:31.740
But also when the 2 lusty lads on it, he'll pick her up and she says, she's out, shout, shouts out, gear off.

248
00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:33.299
Yeah, girl.

249
00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:36.359
Yeah, that's ugly. a mistake.

250
00:17:36.420 --> 00:17:37.559
She wanted it.

251
00:17:37.619 --> 00:17:39.180
She pleaded to get it cut.

252
00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:40.319
He said, no love, it's perfect.

253
00:17:40.380 --> 00:17:49.200
Yeah, because it's so sad that so many regional actors at that time worked to get rid of their accents and it would only come out in extremists.

254
00:17:49.259 --> 00:17:55.259
The other great thing about that 1st scene she shot is John Pertwee grabbed...

255
00:17:55.380 --> 00:17:59.880
He had this little fold up chair and he grabbed it and he sat next to the director watching her scene and she was terrified.

256
00:17:59.940 --> 00:18:00.599
That's right.

257
00:18:00.660 --> 00:18:04.740
With his hand in his chin and his great, long, shaky nose staring down at her.

258
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:07.799
You know, she said to him, apparently, he was like, John, I was terrified.

259
00:18:07.859 --> 00:18:12.240
He said, oh, no, darling, that's me saying, I, I, I was, I was being there to support you.

260
00:18:12.299 --> 00:18:14.220
I was saying, look, you're going to be wonderful.

261
00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:14.880
You're so wonderful.

262
00:18:14.940 --> 00:18:18.480
I don't have to be here and I am, which is...

263
00:18:18.539 --> 00:18:22.440
It's like, I'm blessing you with my And also your bum will be up on you shoulders.

264
00:18:22.500 --> 00:18:24.299
So I'll be like, I can't miss a scene like that.

265
00:18:24.779 --> 00:18:35.519
But isn't it, isn't she notoriously have this sort of, this interesting state with with pertwe that behind the scenes is that didn't he chat her up and she said, no, thanks, sir.

266
00:18:35.640 --> 00:18:37.680
I'm a working girl, but not in that way.

267
00:18:37.740 --> 00:18:39.720
Well, I don't know that.

268
00:18:39.779 --> 00:18:42.839
That's certainly true of Patrick McNe and Diana Rigg on the Avengers.

269
00:18:42.900 --> 00:18:45.420
Yeah, that was Pat and everybody on the Avengers.

270
00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:46.680
He tried that when they were girls.

271
00:18:46.740 --> 00:18:51.660
Apparently Patrick McNee took Diana Rigg out to dinner after their 1st days filming.

272
00:18:51.660 --> 00:18:55.319
And as Patrick McNee puts it, we were absolutely outrageous.

273
00:18:55.319 --> 00:19:03.900
And as the night wore on, the topic moved to workplace relationships, Diana apologised and said that she only made exceptions for men of intellect.

274
00:19:04.920 --> 00:19:12.359
I really hope a similar scene had happened here that I somehow died. gotten rid of that ruddy humobile before I even look at you twice.

275
00:19:12.420 --> 00:19:14.579
It could have been one of the lines.

276
00:19:14.819 --> 00:19:19.200
But we're all jumping ahead because there's so much in this season, isn't there?

277
00:19:19.259 --> 00:19:20.759
Why do we love this story so much?

278
00:19:20.819 --> 00:19:23.220
At base, it's pretty simple story, isn't it?

279
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:26.759
Well, in fact, it just becomes a series of silly capers, actually.

280
00:19:26.819 --> 00:19:28.200
With some brilliant actors.

281
00:19:28.259 --> 00:19:28.799
Yeah, yeah.

282
00:19:28.859 --> 00:19:33.480
But once it's sort of set up, basically it's lots of cunning plans to try and be deep.

283
00:19:33.539 --> 00:19:38.640
And they're, you know, like silly plants like the doctor and Sarah dressing as friars and...

284
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:40.619
In his Wurzel postman voice.

285
00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:42.839
Did you know that's his favourite scene?

286
00:19:42.900 --> 00:19:45.599
That was Pert's favourite moment in this whole story.

287
00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:54.420
And actually, when he's at his most relaxed, You can see this is really probably the point where those 2 really gel together as an acting couple and they're...

288
00:19:54.420 --> 00:19:56.700
Unlike the guards they get past, who are...

289
00:19:56.700 --> 00:20:00.480
With the worst accents comedy ever...

290
00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:03.839
You will find him a kind and charitable.

291
00:20:03.900 --> 00:20:08.880
I mean, he obviously thinks he's doing an episode of Monty Python's flying circus with that.

292
00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:10.740
It's not even good enough to be black at her, is it?

293
00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:13.559
But then Pertwee trumps them all with his Wurzel voice.

294
00:20:13.619 --> 00:20:16.440
It's really appalling There's lots.

295
00:20:16.500 --> 00:20:20.940
There's so much to love. tends to do quite a few voices in this because he gets to do the Wurzel Boys.

296
00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:21.779
He gets to be the robot.

297
00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:23.640
You will damage my circus.

298
00:20:23.700 --> 00:20:25.799
Is that the weakest point in the story, actually?

299
00:20:25.859 --> 00:20:28.019
The whole notion of the Mickey Mouse robot thing?

300
00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:28.980
That feels like Padding.

301
00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:30.420
You know, I quite like it.

302
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:35.759
I quite like because it's kind of like what Robert Slyman does, which is play on variations of an idea.

303
00:20:35.819 --> 00:20:39.240
And in terms of the Santara, okay, what can he give them?

304
00:20:39.299 --> 00:20:41.519
He can give them flintlocks, but that's not so exciting.

305
00:20:41.579 --> 00:20:42.480
That's something we have.

306
00:20:42.539 --> 00:20:49.319
What's something he can give them that we in the 20th century don't have, but every little boy loves will give him a robot.

307
00:20:49.380 --> 00:20:50.279
Yeah.

308
00:20:50.279 --> 00:20:57.660
And we do see in the next Santaran story, we're getting ahead of ourselves, I know, but Santarans do seem to have a skill with robotics.

309
00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:02.339
With terrible, terrible, unconvincing, terrible...

310
00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:03.660
Do you know what Santa says?

311
00:21:03.779 --> 00:21:05.279
Yes, sir.

312
00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:06.059
He makes points.

313
00:21:06.059 --> 00:21:12.539
That links is the scientific advisor to a military organisation.

314
00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:19.200
No, but he is. the miniature organisation being iron grown and he's bumbly chums.

315
00:21:19.259 --> 00:21:20.640
No, I think he's onto a good point.

316
00:21:20.700 --> 00:21:33.059
I think Holmes is actually lampooning because Holmes is so meta clever, but he's actually going right back to the beginning of Barry Lett's tenure and saying, well, okay, let's just make another show within a show, which he always does if you want to look for it.

317
00:21:33.180 --> 00:21:37.440
And Santa has taught us to see that and to find it. this, yeah, you're right.

318
00:21:37.500 --> 00:21:41.880
This is a reboot of season 7 inside the story of this season 11.

319
00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:44.039
Or it's like the introduction of the master.

320
00:21:44.099 --> 00:21:56.700
What Xander says is, you know, these days we think of some Torrens is, you know, like the 5th most popular Doctor Who monster or something, but Holmes is just inventing a single character links.

321
00:21:56.759 --> 00:22:02.099
And it's one actor pulling it off in the Mr. Potato head and silvery spacey quilting.

322
00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:04.859
And it's the lovely Kevin Lindsay.

323
00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:05.759
Hands on hips, everyone.

324
00:22:05.819 --> 00:22:06.720
Kevin Lindsay.

325
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:09.539
I am a Sontaran.

326
00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:12.119
I think it's pronounced on Terran. from the bloody place.

327
00:22:12.180 --> 00:22:12.900
That's right.

328
00:22:12.900 --> 00:22:14.759
Saunterrant, the director wanted it.

329
00:22:14.819 --> 00:22:16.859
Yeah, except he didn't say bloody.

330
00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:18.420
It's so good.

331
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:23.099
And the little silly flag popping up, which again is very duck dodgers in the 24th and a half.

332
00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:29.039
Well, yes, he doesn't he conquer the earth and its associated moons and satellites with his little flag.

333
00:22:29.099 --> 00:22:29.880
But a little flag.

334
00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:32.460
It's like the Eddie Isard thing. you know, do you have a flag?

335
00:22:34.019 --> 00:22:39.839
But again, David Dacre and Bloodax coring, though, it's just, it's really the 3 of them.

336
00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:42.599
And Alan Roe and the fabulous dot cotton.

337
00:22:42.660 --> 00:22:44.460
We got to get to Lady Eleanor.

338
00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:47.700
There's even lines cut...

339
00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:57.720
There are lines cut out in this, that even the production team, even Terence thought, oh, we're probably being a bit too sexist, because it's a bit hand fisted in the way they say, you know, a liberated character.

340
00:22:57.779 --> 00:22:59.759
Let's make everyone, as we were going to say earlier.

341
00:22:59.819 --> 00:23:07.740
Professor Rubich has a line that was cut out about female brains not being the right form to carry thoughts about science proficiently.

342
00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:10.559
And there are a couple of lines on Lady Eleanor.

343
00:23:10.619 --> 00:23:24.119
But we were saying before, the production team would have liked, another 2 episodes, to give the Wessex characters, to give how the Boba Fett archer type guy, another go and, well, we know what was going to happen with Halle Archer, don't we?

344
00:23:24.180 --> 00:23:25.440
Potential companion.

345
00:23:25.500 --> 00:23:26.039
Exactly.

346
00:23:26.099 --> 00:23:27.059
He was another Jamie.

347
00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:30.000
He was there because they were still not cast.

348
00:23:30.059 --> 00:23:34.980
It's still not Cast Baker, and they hadn't actually got to it until Invasion of the Dinosaurs was filming.

349
00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:37.079
So it was really getting to be a panic.

350
00:23:37.140 --> 00:23:38.759
So they thought, we might need this bloke.

351
00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:42.299
And it was, can you imagine how well that would have worked because they'll never do that in a show, would they?

352
00:23:42.299 --> 00:23:49.619
meet a companion and then the next story just oddly go back and pick them up again and say that, you know, for no good reason at all.

353
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:50.519
Yes, exactly.

354
00:23:50.579 --> 00:23:52.079
I've never seen Lagopolis either.

355
00:23:52.140 --> 00:23:53.759
I wouldn't know what we're talking about.

356
00:23:53.819 --> 00:24:01.559
I think at this stage, I think at this stage, they were worried that John would leave because John had asked for his rise, which had been...

357
00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:02.460
His yearly rise.

358
00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:04.200
And yeah, his yearly rise had been turned down.

359
00:24:04.259 --> 00:24:07.140
But we, like, he was making noises about leaving.

360
00:24:07.259 --> 00:24:13.500
Barry and Terence apparently decided to leave during production of The Time Warrior, which happened immediately after the Green Death.

361
00:24:13.619 --> 00:24:18.240
John, because this is still actually a shoot part of season 10, isn't it?

362
00:24:18.299 --> 00:24:24.359
John apparently didn't finally decide to leave until production of Death to the Daleks.

363
00:24:24.420 --> 00:24:33.359
And we'll have fun splotting which scene it is where we think I think I think it's when he's calling out Hamlet lines to the root.

364
00:24:34.380 --> 00:24:39.359
I do actually have a, I do actually have a theory on why that is, but we'll wait until we get to this.

365
00:24:39.420 --> 00:24:41.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because we're jumping around twisty-turny here.

366
00:24:41.700 --> 00:24:46.920
That's an interesting point when they were saying, you know, he asked for more money and Sean Sutton, the controller.

367
00:24:46.980 --> 00:24:48.720
And old Chandler Pertwee, actually.

368
00:24:48.779 --> 00:24:51.720
They went back to the radio days together in the 50s.

369
00:24:51.779 --> 00:25:01.500
Barry Letts, before he passed, was quite adamant that knows, is one of those stories that John has it being a raconteur, had a certain way of telling stories to the point that he ended up believing them himself.

370
00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:06.779
So Barry Letts, almost 10 years after John Pertwee's own passing in 96.

371
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:09.779
So in the early 2000s, was saying, um, that's not the case at all.

372
00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:11.940
I was the executive producer.

373
00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:13.380
I was in charge of budget.

374
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:18.839
If my leading man had wanted a rise, I would have handled it through the budget of the show.

375
00:25:18.900 --> 00:25:21.059
Sutton would not have told that to Pertley.

376
00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:22.440
There were a whole lot of other things going on.

377
00:25:22.500 --> 00:25:25.500
But we're still a bit hazy about it.

378
00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:31.079
I like, maybe when we get to the end of the season, we can we can look at what's going on here because it's a bit like season 18.

379
00:25:31.259 --> 00:25:33.180
There's a certain sadness.

380
00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:38.039
There's a certain languidness in Pertley's performance and I actually like him a lot in this season.

381
00:25:38.099 --> 00:25:39.359
I really came.

382
00:25:39.420 --> 00:25:52.140
This is the season I knew when I 1st came to Doctor Who as a child's, and that's why I love Perby so much, because you get all of that, uh, hubristic acting isn't kind of here so much. certainly not in this story.

383
00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:55.319
He's a little bit more comical.

384
00:25:55.380 --> 00:25:59.339
I had, like, I've made cracks on the podcast before about pertly retiring from acting.

385
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:01.019
It's fair, actually.

386
00:26:01.079 --> 00:26:11.220
Well, but when I watch season 11, I actually, he was the doctor that I remember both we being when I 1st started watching the show and he's, he's not obnoxious.

387
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:12.599
He's a little bit more amused.

388
00:26:12.660 --> 00:26:14.039
He's charming in this one.

389
00:26:14.099 --> 00:26:21.180
Yeah, and I think maybe the departure has more to do with Katie leaving and Roger dying.

390
00:26:21.299 --> 00:26:22.980
Yeah, I think that's important.

391
00:26:22.980 --> 00:26:25.440
And Barry and Terrence being on the way out as well.

392
00:26:25.500 --> 00:26:28.079
And unit being only...

393
00:26:28.140 --> 00:26:30.119
I mean, unit's just a curtain party, isn't it?

394
00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:31.740
peekaboo from the brigadier and that's it.

395
00:26:31.799 --> 00:26:34.200
It had actually been that for the last couple of seasons.

396
00:26:34.259 --> 00:26:53.160
That was the other thing that struck me is that season 11 basically has a sort of fairly similar structure to the previous few seasons where we top and tail with a story with unit, unit gets the big finale is kind of vaguely in the 1st story, but we don't see it for the rest of the season.

397
00:26:53.220 --> 00:26:54.960
And we've done that for a couple of years now.

398
00:26:55.019 --> 00:27:02.940
Well, I think pert we, possibly because he's considering living and then decides to leave, does become more relaxed in the role.

399
00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:08.579
He doesn't have to worry about how he is perceived because he's on the way out anyway.

400
00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:12.420
It, it, take him to an, taken to an extreme.

401
00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:14.220
I mean on the way out of the role.

402
00:27:14.279 --> 00:27:17.099
But he was very big on his own perception.

403
00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:21.119
Paddy Russell would go on to talk about an invasion of the dinosaurs.

404
00:27:21.180 --> 00:27:29.099
Russell was complaining that and most of the cast and crew, that his entire attitude was kind of apathetic, except to his costume.

405
00:27:29.160 --> 00:27:44.940
Every, every, in every story in this one, his, his interest in wardrobe was paramount, and he would spend most of the time fussing about with wardrobe, or indeed answering the door as he does in Time, Warrior, to, um, to Adjournal in, in curlers and a corset.

406
00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:46.740
Do you know that story?

407
00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:47.339
No.

408
00:27:47.339 --> 00:27:47.759
Yeah.

409
00:27:47.819 --> 00:27:48.599
Oh really?

410
00:27:48.660 --> 00:27:49.920
Yeah, yeah.

411
00:27:49.980 --> 00:27:50.759
Yeah.

412
00:27:50.819 --> 00:27:52.619
Yeah, because he got drenched.

413
00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:54.059
So they had to perm his hair.

414
00:27:54.119 --> 00:27:54.539
Yeah.

415
00:27:54.539 --> 00:27:55.740
Yeah.

416
00:27:55.799 --> 00:27:58.259
Don't you wish that had made the cover of the radio times?

417
00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:01.140
Getting back to the time worry, though.

418
00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:11.460
Of course, this is before all this has come to pass and the arguable apathy takes hold. is so strange to consider that this is produced before everything else.

419
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:15.119
He has, by the time of invasion of dinosaurs, he has noticeably aged.

420
00:28:15.180 --> 00:28:21.539
Hmm, his hair, his hair is more bouffant than in time warrior.

421
00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:23.339
He has a few more lines on his face.

422
00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:30.119
And also Time Warrior would have been shot just a few weeks after, you know, his best friend left the show.

423
00:28:30.180 --> 00:28:37.140
And yet he is so full of verve and vigour and just gels with Elizabeth Sladen immediately.

424
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:39.660
Yeah, what makes this story work?

425
00:28:39.660 --> 00:28:41.640
And really, there's not that much going on.

426
00:28:41.700 --> 00:28:43.140
It's got some pretty scenery.

427
00:28:43.200 --> 00:28:49.319
You can see that the budget on this is tiny compared to Planet of the Daleks. you realise that?

428
00:28:49.380 --> 00:29:00.180
But it does what BBC does so well, is they put on a few bits of old green felt and, you know, and forsooth your way through the new forest. through your way.

429
00:29:00.180 --> 00:29:01.680
And they do it beautifully.

430
00:29:01.740 --> 00:29:15.299
And it's really down to wonderful Kevin Lindsay, who does so much with really not that much to work with and pertly allowing everyone else, including Liz, to take centre stage.

431
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:17.279
That's a new thing for this doctor.

432
00:29:17.339 --> 00:29:31.259
Yeah, I mean, the relationship between the doctor and Sarah is so different to the doctor and Katie, and I think it's, I think it's a great testament to Pertwee and to Barry and Terence, that they didn't just try and replicate it.

433
00:29:31.319 --> 00:29:39.359
They realised that the that Sarah's character wouldn't respond to the doctor's paternal instinct in the same way that Casey did.

434
00:29:39.480 --> 00:29:41.039
So they have fun with that instead.

435
00:29:41.099 --> 00:29:43.319
The whole you could make us a cup of coffee line.

436
00:29:43.380 --> 00:29:47.640
Now, between the doctor and Joe, that would just be a bit of playful banter.

437
00:29:47.700 --> 00:29:55.619
But from the doctor to Sarah, yeah, it gets her back right up and you kind of go, actually, yeah, there's no reason that she has to go off and make his coffee.

438
00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:58.799
And it makes you question that dynamic.

439
00:29:58.859 --> 00:30:02.519
Also, it makes the doctor take her more seriously.

440
00:30:02.579 --> 00:30:04.859
He doesn't try any of that again.

441
00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:06.059
And then later on...

442
00:30:06.059 --> 00:30:07.140
He slapped into place, isn't he?

443
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:14.279
When she's helping him out with the sewing and the stink bombs and whatnot, he talks to her as an equal straight away.

444
00:30:14.339 --> 00:30:16.259
There's none of this ham fisted bun bender.

445
00:30:16.380 --> 00:30:18.119
Dont worry, Joe, you're a bit cloth headed kind of thing.

446
00:30:18.180 --> 00:30:19.920
He does actually say bum bender, doesn't he?

447
00:30:19.980 --> 00:30:21.720
I watch I watch Terror of the Ordons again.

448
00:30:21.779 --> 00:30:27.960
Yeah, there's all those lovely moments in the forest when he's taking saltpetre, which, by the way, takes 6 months to make.

449
00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:31.680
So, we're just as educational as the actual program we...

450
00:30:31.740 --> 00:30:32.700
I need to look up the details of that.

451
00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:33.359
It's in my notes.

452
00:30:33.900 --> 00:30:36.359
What else can we say about this show?

453
00:30:36.420 --> 00:30:37.859
So potatoes.

454
00:30:37.980 --> 00:30:47.519
So there is a terrific scene, and it is a great counterpoint to all the modern day stuff about, you know, relationships between men and women.

455
00:30:47.579 --> 00:31:07.740
Sarah, as one of the sort of hilarious japes and schemes that characterise the last couple of episodes of this story, is dressed as a lady initially and ends up in Meg's kitchen, but ends up working as a serving wench, and she's peeling potatoes, probably, which, of course, didn't arrive in England until...

456
00:31:07.799 --> 00:31:10.559
But let's don't make a big deal of it, and it could be a Swede or a turn.

457
00:31:10.619 --> 00:31:11.160
It could be.

458
00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:12.180
A turnip of their very own.

459
00:31:12.839 --> 00:31:15.299
I like to think it's a tiny, whimey sort of potato.

460
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:18.059
But there is a conversation with Meg the serving woman.

461
00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:25.980
So Sarah does her kind of feminist speech and it really is the only overtly feminist thing that she kind of says.

462
00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:35.700
She objects to being patronised, which I guess is something that you get feminists to say on television at this time they get Ruth Ingram to do it in time monster.

463
00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:40.980
So she objects to being patronised early, but the 1st time that she says, you know, men don't own us.

464
00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:42.660
You know, they don't tell us what to do.

465
00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:46.380
And Meg says, well, you know, yes, they kind of do.

466
00:31:46.440 --> 00:31:54.720
And she says, oh, you're living in the Middle Ages, but then she patches herself and realises it's a stupid thing to say and sort of doesn't say anymore.

467
00:31:54.779 --> 00:32:06.119
But just before that, Meg has said that men were always like children, you know, with their brawling and like she has a contempt for the men in the castle as well.

468
00:32:06.180 --> 00:32:11.579
So, you know, there is a sort of bit of proto-medieval feminism there.

469
00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:13.799
It's a kind of cowser point, Sarah.

470
00:32:14.339 --> 00:32:15.059
Sheila Faye.

471
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:17.940
I think there should be in a Sheila Faye appreciation society.

472
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:20.160
She has been another Doctor Who stories, hasn't she?

473
00:32:20.220 --> 00:32:24.660
But Meg, the kitchen, Uber, Meister.

474
00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:26.400
She's got a great accent.

475
00:32:26.460 --> 00:32:27.299
She's so good.

476
00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:28.140
And that hair.

477
00:32:28.500 --> 00:32:31.980
It does take a lot of effort to get your hair like that.

478
00:32:32.099 --> 00:32:35.160
Nathan, I see that your eyes are wandering.

479
00:32:35.220 --> 00:32:36.779
Would you care to comment on?

480
00:32:36.779 --> 00:32:42.660
Because I'm not that I'm pushing the liberation point here, but I believe that you may well be...

481
00:32:42.660 --> 00:32:45.059
So, when I was a kid, you may well be looking at my thorax.

482
00:32:45.299 --> 00:32:55.799
When I was a kid, I thought the famous line about your thorax being of a different construction, Richard was about Sarah's lack of an Adam's apple.

483
00:32:55.859 --> 00:32:57.299
I thought it was a thinner neck.

484
00:32:57.420 --> 00:33:01.140
Yeah, and and Lynx actually grabs her chin.

485
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:01.799
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

486
00:33:01.859 --> 00:33:09.240
And Russell reuses the joke in the poisoned sky when the Sontarians are reintroduced.

487
00:33:09.299 --> 00:33:14.640
Again, it seems to be about the neck, but your thorax isn't your neck, it's your chest.

488
00:33:14.700 --> 00:33:15.299
It is.

489
00:33:15.299 --> 00:33:17.759
And so it's that she has breasts.

490
00:33:17.819 --> 00:33:19.980
Must be substances.

491
00:33:19.980 --> 00:33:21.900
As we say in the BBC.

492
00:33:21.900 --> 00:33:23.940
It's a Bob Holmes breastroke.

493
00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:24.720
There you go.

494
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:25.740
That's not the only one.

495
00:33:26.579 --> 00:33:32.339
You know, and considering how top heavy Santarians are, it's like, easy there, Ty.

496
00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:39.720
So it was that, and of course, one thing that we haven't mentioned is this is the 1st mention of the planet, Gallon.

497
00:33:39.779 --> 00:33:40.200
Yeah.

498
00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:41.640
It certainly is, thank you.

499
00:33:41.700 --> 00:33:44.700
It's a lovely Irish vineyard somewhere, isn't it?

500
00:33:44.759 --> 00:33:46.740
It's just dropped without much ceremony.

501
00:33:46.799 --> 00:33:48.359
It's just, I am from Gallifrey.

502
00:33:48.420 --> 00:33:51.539
It's almost as if, the same to the audience, you know that.

503
00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:52.259
You've heard it before.

504
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:57.359
Actually, I think by that point the name had been published in the Radio Times 10th anniversary special.

505
00:33:57.420 --> 00:33:58.259
Oh, okay.

506
00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:02.220
I, you know, because this had already been shot by that point.

507
00:34:02.279 --> 00:34:11.340
The only other name it had been given is in TV comic, and it was called the Planet Jewel, as in JEWE, as in Jimmy, not as in...

508
00:34:11.340 --> 00:34:12.000
Hitty-hitty.

509
00:34:12.059 --> 00:34:12.480
Yes, yes.

510
00:34:12.539 --> 00:34:14.340
Yeah, that would have been boring.

511
00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:14.940
Yeah.

512
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:18.900
Well, a bit spangly, although we've seen 3 doctors and it wasn't entirely inappropriate.

513
00:34:19.260 --> 00:34:22.139
Of course, the planet game show.

514
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:25.139
It's a game show sense.

515
00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:28.139
Grant Denya's there.

516
00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:31.019
So what jobs can a time lady do?

517
00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:39.059
You know, Berlitz was going to direct this one that Bromley was brought in at the last minute, and Bromley was renowned.

518
00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:41.340
We haven't talked about direction on this one.

519
00:34:41.400 --> 00:34:42.900
It's seen as a bit ploddy, isn't it?

520
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:44.340
It's all right.

521
00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:47.880
But he's actually seen, apparently, the heads and nodders.

522
00:34:47.940 --> 00:34:49.380
So all this is terrific.

523
00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:54.900
Bromley was really good old school BBC. which is why you don't get a lot of camera movement in this.

524
00:34:54.960 --> 00:34:57.840
His old school fixed cameras, 3 on a set.

525
00:34:57.900 --> 00:35:08.760
Did you notice how the scenes are really elongated as they were in the 50s when he was, you know, at his prime, working full-time for the BBC, on historical dramas.

526
00:35:08.820 --> 00:35:12.719
So you've got a lot of these static shots with the folk moving around.

527
00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:18.480
I actually think the elongated scenes work a lot better for this to give the more of the banter between the characters.

528
00:35:18.539 --> 00:35:22.199
Something that I don't think we get so much these days in Modern Doctor Who.

529
00:35:22.260 --> 00:35:29.400
I like that a naturalistic conversation can play out or Sarah's whole thing about the dinginess is a very long scene.

530
00:35:29.460 --> 00:35:33.420
You wouldn't really get in a 45 minute story nowadays, and I'd really love it for that.

531
00:35:33.480 --> 00:35:36.539
Yeah, his performances that he directs are good.

532
00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:38.880
The set design's very good as well.

533
00:35:38.940 --> 00:35:43.199
That's a great idea, except for the special effects, especially...

534
00:35:43.260 --> 00:35:48.179
And Barry hated this, the destruction of the castle at the end, which is just a quarry wall falling down.

535
00:35:48.239 --> 00:35:51.059
We could do a model, Barry said, you know, we do models.

536
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:55.860
He said, oh, you don't need to spend the money on that, you know, and yeah, it was old school BBCs to save every cent.

537
00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:56.699
Yeah, yeah.

538
00:35:57.119 --> 00:36:03.000
So and that's why for DVD, this was a candidate for digital effects, most of which are very good.

539
00:36:03.059 --> 00:36:03.840
Really?

540
00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:06.239
I actually...

541
00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:13.019
The castle is a bit ropey, unfortunately, but as the animator later came out and defended himself, he said, you know what?

542
00:36:13.079 --> 00:36:19.800
In the time frame I had and the software I had, that is the best work you can do with flames and do tell me that it's worse than a quarry falling on you.

543
00:36:19.860 --> 00:36:22.440
Actually, as a child, I thought the quarry thing was fine.

544
00:36:22.500 --> 00:36:27.539
You know, I've never even noticed that there's a digital effects option on everything.

545
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:29.940
No, the lasers, like the lasers are really good.

546
00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:32.699
The crushing Santaran ship is much, much better.

547
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:38.699
Um, I mean, given that the original crashings on tar and shit was a front tax, your projected tennis ball on a stick.

548
00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:40.679
Which was cut out.

549
00:36:40.739 --> 00:36:42.539
You just get the flashing light.

550
00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:44.159
Even they said, no, you can't use that.

551
00:36:44.219 --> 00:36:47.400
You know, when you get that white thing, they did, that was actually done as an optical.

552
00:36:47.460 --> 00:36:49.739
But the tennis ball wasn't used because it was so bad.

553
00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:52.260
Right?

554
00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:52.619
Okay.

555
00:36:52.679 --> 00:36:57.119
I thought that was the tennis. white thing and you just see the glow from under the window.

556
00:36:57.179 --> 00:36:57.719
Remember that?

557
00:36:57.780 --> 00:36:59.219
Again, it's all fine.

558
00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:00.960
I don't mind that it's ropey.

559
00:37:01.019 --> 00:37:05.639
It has a certain sense of being, it almost feels like a television drama from the 50s.

560
00:37:05.699 --> 00:37:08.159
It's not very affects heavy in any case.

561
00:37:08.219 --> 00:37:09.179
Not at all.

562
00:37:09.239 --> 00:37:15.420
You know, it links sort of appearing as a blue, ethereal apparition, the stairs in episode one.

563
00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:16.019
That's very good.

564
00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:17.699
That scared me as a kid.

565
00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:18.300
Yes.

566
00:37:18.300 --> 00:37:20.579
Lighting and roll back and mix, isn't it?

567
00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:22.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah. and yet it's very effective.

568
00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:26.039
So, you know, it's certainly special effects wise, it's not all bad.

569
00:37:26.099 --> 00:37:36.719
I think for Barry, it hurt the most because Doctor Who's special effects had improved so much under his tenure because he pushed and pushed and pushed for the latest technology.

570
00:37:36.780 --> 00:37:37.500
And yeah, you know what?

571
00:37:37.559 --> 00:37:43.320
didn't always work, but it did always look interesting at the very least.

572
00:37:43.380 --> 00:37:48.960
Speaking of special effects on the up, we're heading back to London now.

573
00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:52.619
For some sort of invasion by dinosaur.

574
00:38:13.739 --> 00:38:15.539
Guess where we are.

575
00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:18.780
London, right next door to Wimbleton Common.

576
00:38:18.840 --> 00:38:22.679
Yes, filming illegally, filming illegally.

577
00:38:22.739 --> 00:38:24.840
Gorilla style stunt filming.

578
00:38:24.900 --> 00:38:25.619
It's amazing.

579
00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:28.260
And the 1st 6 minutes of episode one of Invasion.

580
00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:30.239
Invasible dinosaurs all on film.

581
00:38:30.300 --> 00:38:31.320
It's so good.

582
00:38:31.440 --> 00:38:39.780
And it feels like Amiga Man or Saul and Green or any of those dystopian pictures that are coming out around this time of a deserted lunch and you think, this is great.

583
00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:41.280
It's eerie, it's darker.

584
00:38:41.340 --> 00:38:50.760
And isn't it lovely that, as we've noticed later on in the season when we start to see the doctors' hairdressing equipment, the Cyril Shaps, that he's got one in the TARDIS?

585
00:38:50.940 --> 00:38:52.920
Because Sarah steps out with an entirely new bob.

586
00:38:52.980 --> 00:38:54.539
Lovely Bob, little Bob.

587
00:38:54.599 --> 00:38:59.460
And the doctor's hair again has become somewhat more than it was in the previous story.

588
00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:03.000
So obviously they've had more than just a couple of hours in the Tardis getting back here.

589
00:39:03.059 --> 00:39:06.539
And Barry was not impressed with Sarah's haircut.

590
00:39:06.659 --> 00:39:08.519
So they tried to style it to look as close.

591
00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:12.719
I thought that was the entire explanation for the equipment you see in Spelanet, the spiders later on.

592
00:39:12.780 --> 00:39:18.719
But look, this really does start off so well and all guns are blazing and raise your pints too.

593
00:39:18.780 --> 00:39:22.559
Dame Paddy Russell because she's bloody gorgeous in this, isn't she?

594
00:39:22.619 --> 00:39:23.460
She's such a good director.

595
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:25.559
Do you know what the last thing she directed was?

596
00:39:25.619 --> 00:39:26.340
Tell us.

597
00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:28.019
The massacre.

598
00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:30.539
That's very interesting.

599
00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:35.400
You know why those shots look so good at the London thing?

600
00:39:35.460 --> 00:39:39.420
She went out and got a guy called Tony Lego.

601
00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:47.880
Now, Tony Lego was renowned in the BBC for his documentary handheld camera work, the Doco work, and he was really hard to get.

602
00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:49.199
She had to book in months ahead.

603
00:39:49.260 --> 00:39:50.820
As soon as she knew she had this show.

604
00:39:50.880 --> 00:40:00.900
She booked Tony Lego, but the BBC were very respectful of his camera work knowing how good he'd been on the massacre. they are the notes.

605
00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:03.119
They are the show notes.

606
00:40:03.239 --> 00:40:07.800
So yes, the massacre was still widely held as being a terrific point in Doctor Who.

607
00:40:07.860 --> 00:40:09.539
Within the BBC.

608
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:11.880
Even if it wasn't held itself.

609
00:40:11.940 --> 00:40:15.719
But yeah, it starts off looking so so gorgeous.

610
00:40:15.780 --> 00:40:17.159
So let's just get it out of the way now.

611
00:40:17.219 --> 00:40:18.719
Do you know?

612
00:40:18.780 --> 00:40:20.099
However, the dinosaurs.

613
00:40:20.159 --> 00:40:21.539
They're not there yet.

614
00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:25.679
What about the imperfectly colorised nature of London?

615
00:40:25.739 --> 00:40:28.739
They return to an imperfectly colorised version.

616
00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:34.739
Okay, of course, because the same colour recovery technology that worked so well on Planet Daleks did work.

617
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:39.900
Invasion of the Dinosaurs, episode one simply called Invasion. to...

618
00:40:39.960 --> 00:40:48.119
Yeah, on Paddy Russell's request, even though, as everyone, including Barry, let's point it out, hang on, they've actually been in the radio times and everybody knows that dinosaur.

619
00:40:48.179 --> 00:40:48.599
Yeah.

620
00:40:48.659 --> 00:40:49.980
Malcolm Hook.

621
00:40:50.039 --> 00:40:52.440
First of all, he wasn't impressed that he had to do a story with dinosaurs.

622
00:40:52.500 --> 00:40:54.119
His original story didn't have dinosaurs.

623
00:40:54.179 --> 00:40:55.019
No, it didn't.

624
00:40:55.079 --> 00:40:58.500
It was actually more of an alien invasion, alien alien.

625
00:40:58.559 --> 00:41:00.239
As aliens brought back Hitler.

626
00:41:00.300 --> 00:41:01.019
It was Danger Five.

627
00:41:01.079 --> 00:41:11.760
It was and deserted London again, but it would have been much more like an episode of Department S, which is what they were actually pitching forward this one with a really uncanny opening scene.

628
00:41:11.820 --> 00:41:17.639
Kind of like late Diner Rig Avengers or Tyra King Avengers, something very odd going on in a terri nation mould.

629
00:41:17.639 --> 00:41:20.940
And then clicking in with the rest of it.

630
00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:25.380
So you're saying that Malcolm Hulk is objecting to writing a story about giant lizards.

631
00:41:26.219 --> 00:41:31.260
It's like, it's kind of time cast, he doesn't want to do any more giant lizards.

632
00:41:31.320 --> 00:41:32.280
They're played.

633
00:41:32.340 --> 00:41:33.000
Do you know what I mean?

634
00:41:33.059 --> 00:41:39.360
So it is politics and giant lizards, and that's always his his obsession every every gear.

635
00:41:39.420 --> 00:41:43.739
They wheeling back in to do some giant lizards and politics.

636
00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:44.880
And I think he does a great job.

637
00:41:44.940 --> 00:41:45.900
Do you know what I mean?

638
00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:48.360
The politics in this story is amazing.

639
00:41:48.420 --> 00:41:52.320
And that's what's left over from the original story and the character of Professor Whittaker.

640
00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:54.900
It's a lovely homage, isn't it?

641
00:41:55.139 --> 00:41:57.719
That's Whittaker in the novel.

642
00:41:57.780 --> 00:41:59.519
One of the great things about this story.

643
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:00.659
The story is the novel.

644
00:42:00.780 --> 00:42:10.619
You've gone to my go-to for this, because I, of course, in the 70s, I should mention to Brendan, this is one of the pert ways, even though we had pertly stories all throughout in the early 80s.

645
00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:12.900
This was one of the many that we just never got to see.

646
00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:23.219
Yeah, and then in the 80s, when I was watching Doctor Who, It was always sold as a five-part story with part 2 retitled episode one and so on.

647
00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:25.440
And so for me as a kid.

648
00:42:25.500 --> 00:42:31.739
It was actually quite amazing coming into this story and the doctor and Sarah are already chained up in the, what the hell has gone on?

649
00:42:31.800 --> 00:42:36.599
And yeah, I don't think I actually saw the 1st episode until it came out on DVD.

650
00:42:36.659 --> 00:42:42.059
And on the DVD, you actually have to specially select the colour version. and it's not very good.

651
00:42:42.119 --> 00:42:44.099
And yeah, well, it's okay.

652
00:42:44.159 --> 00:42:54.420
It's not, I was expecting it to be quite bad when they said that they didn't put it on as the default because they weren't 100% happy with it.

653
00:42:54.480 --> 00:43:00.840
So when I put it on, I'm like, okay, yeah, I can see, especially most of the problems seem to be in the 1st 5 minutes and then it settles down a bit.

654
00:43:00.900 --> 00:43:02.760
Or you get used to it.

655
00:43:02.820 --> 00:43:03.539
Or you get used to it.

656
00:43:03.659 --> 00:43:06.119
We're talking about the story or are we trying?

657
00:43:06.179 --> 00:43:14.460
So what happens is the version, oh, you won't remember this, but it was 1st broadcast in that five-part version in Australia, I think, in...

658
00:43:14.460 --> 00:43:16.079
Well, that's the version I had as a child.

659
00:43:16.139 --> 00:43:16.380
Yeah.

660
00:43:16.440 --> 00:43:19.260
It was shown in the 70s, but we were very, very young.

661
00:43:19.320 --> 00:43:20.219
I don't remember.

662
00:43:20.280 --> 00:43:23.760
Well, episode one wasn't returned to the archives until 83, apparently.

663
00:43:23.820 --> 00:43:25.199
You know the story with this one?

664
00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:27.659
I don't think that's true.

665
00:43:27.719 --> 00:43:28.380
I think it's a myth.

666
00:43:28.440 --> 00:43:29.880
Do you mean the story where they thought...

667
00:43:29.940 --> 00:43:30.840
There are 2 stories, yeah.

668
00:43:30.900 --> 00:43:33.539
That it was one of the 1st to be shelved.

669
00:43:33.599 --> 00:43:39.960
It was actually, this one was scheduled to be scrapped, as it turns out by Mr. Litz himself.

670
00:43:40.019 --> 00:43:47.400
He was the one who put the rubber stamp on it in late 74 before the perpi season had even, you know, where they were do Pamela and Ash was doing the scrapping of a lot of 60s stories.

671
00:43:47.460 --> 00:43:53.280
And the myth has got about that, oh, it was called invasion, and that's why, no, it's actually a mistake.

672
00:43:53.340 --> 00:44:07.739
The reason the later episodes, episode 2 and on, in the archive is because they'd made a mistake and just scrapped the 1st episode, they were meant to scrap all of them, and it was under Barry Letts, the hest, because he couldn't bear it, and it's because of the dinosaur stuff.

673
00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:09.659
You know, I think that is a bit more believable.

674
00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:19.320
And I think Malcolm Hawke is very clever in that Barry Letts was so confident they could do dinosaurs because the people behind the drash eggs recommended this puppeteer who said, oh yeah, I can do you dinosaurs.

675
00:44:19.380 --> 00:44:25.320
I think Malcolm Hawk was a lot cleverer and thought, you know what, I don't think they can do dinosaurs and doctors budget.

676
00:44:25.380 --> 00:44:39.780
So he pushes them right to the background with the unfortunate exception of, I think, 3 out of 5 cliffhangers involving the T-Rex. jump in for no reason, including the famous snogging scene when the T-Rex has a passion of brontosaurus.

677
00:44:39.840 --> 00:44:46.260
It's John Molineau has beautifully done with Serge Gainsborough's Jeturn, the background being sung.

678
00:44:46.320 --> 00:44:47.280
Have you seen that one?

679
00:44:47.340 --> 00:44:47.880
on YouTube.

680
00:44:47.940 --> 00:44:49.679
I have that I can imagine. pretty fantastic.

681
00:44:49.739 --> 00:44:57.539
But that being said, you know, I think like most kids, I loved dinosaurs when I was a young boy watching this.

682
00:44:57.599 --> 00:45:01.679
And I have to say the only dinosaur that leaves me really disappointed is the T-Rex.

683
00:45:01.739 --> 00:45:03.719
I think the brontosaurus is actually really good.

684
00:45:03.780 --> 00:45:06.900
I really like the stegosaurus and the triceratops.

685
00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:08.219
What about the pterodactyl?

686
00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:09.420
The pterodactyl.

687
00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:11.760
No, it's plantently that.

688
00:45:11.820 --> 00:45:12.780
It's a Muppet.

689
00:45:12.840 --> 00:45:14.400
It's literally a Muppet.

690
00:45:14.460 --> 00:45:17.940
When it's flying at them in the warehouse in episode one.

691
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:23.400
What everyone says is that this is, you know, quite a good, good story letdown by woeful special effects.

692
00:45:23.460 --> 00:45:30.900
But I actually found myself just smiling my face off every time the dinosaurs came on screen this time.

693
00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:33.000
I had such fun watching it.

694
00:45:33.059 --> 00:45:34.440
They are really terrible.

695
00:45:34.500 --> 00:45:37.260
And like the miniatures are also terrible.

696
00:45:37.320 --> 00:45:41.460
Like, it's not just the dinosaurs, but the backgrounds against which they appear.

697
00:45:41.460 --> 00:45:47.880
It's always overcast in the location shoot, but the sky is brilliantly blue in all of the model scenes.

698
00:45:47.940 --> 00:45:52.380
You know, they look really, really terrible, but it's such fun.

699
00:45:52.440 --> 00:45:53.579
It's so enjoyable.

700
00:45:54.119 --> 00:45:54.840
Yeah, it really is.

701
00:45:54.900 --> 00:46:05.099
And in fact, the hand puppet that they do, the T-Rex close-ups orb, the one with the opening and closing eye. it's completely different It doesn't the mouth doesn't open, does it?

702
00:46:05.159 --> 00:46:15.539
The mouth opens slightly, but also, like, the full size version has this sort of weird pan our chocolat kind of shaped nostrils, whereas whereas the hand puppet doesn't.

703
00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:16.800
The hand puppet looks great.

704
00:46:16.860 --> 00:46:23.219
And in fact, when Toho Studios in Japan brought back Godzilla 10 years later in 1984.

705
00:46:24.119 --> 00:46:27.900
That's how, for the 1st time, they decided to do Godzilla's spatial expressions.

706
00:46:27.960 --> 00:46:32.099
Rather than just do a close-up of the suit, they developed a puppet, in this case, an animatronic.

707
00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:35.400
So, you know, Dr. Moon wasn't into the game.

708
00:46:35.460 --> 00:46:43.559
Clifford Cully, who was in charge of, was it Westbury design and optical, and they were franchised to do the effects, and they'd actually done film effects.

709
00:46:43.619 --> 00:46:47.579
Not on that Harry, Harry House online, but that's what it was pitched at stop motion.

710
00:46:47.639 --> 00:46:49.739
But the production team gave them no time.

711
00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:51.840
They only had a couple of weeks to do these models.

712
00:46:51.900 --> 00:46:55.380
And you know how long it takes us to make these things, let alone animate them.

713
00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:56.219
He said, that's it.

714
00:46:56.280 --> 00:46:57.599
There's got to be rod and string.

715
00:46:57.719 --> 00:46:59.880
And everyone was starting to get very nervous when they realised that.

716
00:46:59.940 --> 00:47:04.619
So when they're lying down in the street shots, they don't look okay.

717
00:47:04.679 --> 00:47:06.420
But 973, 74.

718
00:47:06.599 --> 00:47:07.679
They don't look all that bad.

719
00:47:07.739 --> 00:47:08.639
It's when they have to move.

720
00:47:08.699 --> 00:47:10.380
The problem is also.

721
00:47:10.440 --> 00:47:11.880
They look like they're being dragged by the tail.

722
00:47:11.940 --> 00:47:12.900
Well, because they are.

723
00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:18.239
But also the problem is there was they used a really senior and quite well known in the industry.

724
00:47:18.300 --> 00:47:20.280
Our model makers, Rodney Fuller.

725
00:47:20.340 --> 00:47:26.460
He'd led design before on these sorts of pictures. and he went on to do, one of our dinosaurs is missing, if you remember that, as a period.

726
00:47:26.940 --> 00:47:30.420
It's got pretty much everyone, including pertwheat in it.

727
00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:31.920
And it was only made a few months after this.

728
00:47:31.980 --> 00:47:35.940
So Pertz went straight from Planet of the Spiders to form one of our dinosaurs is missing.

729
00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:38.699
I think I had the gaff view master version of it.

730
00:47:38.760 --> 00:47:42.719
Let's hunt that out on YouTube at the end of the week and they're all up there.

731
00:47:42.780 --> 00:47:51.179
So look, the problems with actually, if you want to get really techy and fabby about this is the cables that Rod Fuller put in went up through the feet, so you couldn't get them to walk.

732
00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:52.559
He didn't do it properly.

733
00:47:52.619 --> 00:47:54.780
He thought it was going to be done as a stop motion.

734
00:47:54.840 --> 00:47:58.320
So they were made to be stop motion puppets, not to be rotten strings.

735
00:47:58.380 --> 00:47:59.880
So you're not getting exactly.

736
00:47:59.940 --> 00:48:03.000
I just have to defend the special effects, boys, because it's my place.

737
00:48:03.059 --> 00:48:06.539
They had done lots of rod and string puppets during the purchase.

738
00:48:06.599 --> 00:48:08.639
Yes, and they're also successful, weren't they?

739
00:48:08.760 --> 00:48:09.420
It's time.

740
00:48:09.480 --> 00:48:11.280
Yeah, I love the manga.

741
00:48:11.340 --> 00:48:13.679
The spiders later this year. are beautiful.

742
00:48:13.739 --> 00:48:16.139
Some of my favourite puppets of all time on Doctor Who, that one.

743
00:48:16.199 --> 00:48:17.760
I think you're right, Richard.

744
00:48:17.820 --> 00:48:19.440
We've said about enough about the monsters.

745
00:48:19.500 --> 00:48:20.039
Let's go.

746
00:48:20.099 --> 00:48:20.820
Do you know what the point is?

747
00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:22.619
Everyone blames the monsters.

748
00:48:22.679 --> 00:48:24.300
It's actually not the monsters in this.

749
00:48:24.360 --> 00:48:26.880
It's the bloody flat doll narrative.

750
00:48:26.940 --> 00:48:29.820
There's not a lot in this to sustain 6 episodes.

751
00:48:29.880 --> 00:48:31.980
I think this is a wonderful stroke.

752
00:48:32.099 --> 00:48:34.800
Maybe because runabout rescue get lost, right?

753
00:48:34.860 --> 00:48:38.280
But the whole it's using every... have we used trope here?

754
00:48:38.340 --> 00:48:40.980
Every time, including the unit turning against the doctor.

755
00:48:41.039 --> 00:48:52.139
It's kind of like an episode of Callen with, you know, shiny suit. 5 is so boring where it hurts me. like he's in the middle of London, but in a forest in the middle of London, I don't quite know what's going on there.

756
00:48:52.199 --> 00:48:57.239
Like he's hiding from unit Jeeps and things and it just goes on forever.

757
00:48:57.300 --> 00:48:58.619
I mean, it really does.

758
00:48:58.679 --> 00:49:03.840
Yeah, but I think this comes back to something you were saying earlier, Richard, which is...

759
00:49:03.840 --> 00:49:08.159
Last year was a year long 10th anniversary party for Doctor Who's.

760
00:49:08.219 --> 00:49:10.380
Every story had some kind of throwback.

761
00:49:10.440 --> 00:49:11.280
Yeah.

762
00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:15.360
This year is, it's all about Pertwee's greatest hits.

763
00:49:15.420 --> 00:49:17.880
So we get a monster invasion.

764
00:49:17.940 --> 00:49:20.039
We get unit versus the regular army.

765
00:49:20.099 --> 00:49:21.480
We get universe as the doctor.

766
00:49:21.539 --> 00:49:23.159
We get along car chase.

767
00:49:23.219 --> 00:49:25.019
We get a mad scientist.

768
00:49:25.019 --> 00:49:32.760
And we also get the beginning of every story this season has multiple guest cast members from earlier in the pert.

769
00:49:32.820 --> 00:49:35.099
Yeah, the teams should be trying to make it comfortable for Pertz.

770
00:49:35.159 --> 00:49:38.099
We haven't talked about that yet by using actors he's worked with before.

771
00:49:38.159 --> 00:49:43.079
So of course, we've got Peter Miles back as Professor David Whittaker, possibly.

772
00:49:43.139 --> 00:49:43.559
Yes.

773
00:49:43.559 --> 00:49:50.699
We all, we additionally have another guest cast member who was in a previous per week. hoping it's Carmen Silvera.

774
00:49:50.760 --> 00:49:54.900
And Carmen Silvera was in a Hartnell story, but there's actually some...

775
00:49:54.900 --> 00:49:55.860
What was she in name?

776
00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:57.420
Yeah, she was in celestial twin.

777
00:49:57.480 --> 00:49:58.380
Our favourite.

778
00:49:58.440 --> 00:49:59.519
So yeah, we've all forgotten it.

779
00:49:59.579 --> 00:50:03.719
But there's actually someone, there's actually someone in this story who was in the Siburians.

780
00:50:04.380 --> 00:50:06.659
Apart from Professor.

781
00:50:06.719 --> 00:50:08.460
Apart from Professor Whitaker.

782
00:50:08.519 --> 00:50:19.739
In episode one, one of the guards at the temporary prism, the doctor and Sarah are taken to, is Dave Carter, who played the old Silurian.

783
00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:20.219
Really?

784
00:50:20.219 --> 00:50:22.800
So we have 2 not only today.

785
00:50:22.860 --> 00:50:23.460
I know.

786
00:50:23.519 --> 00:50:24.900
He moisturised.

787
00:50:24.960 --> 00:50:31.800
We have not only 2 returning pertly guest actors, we have 2 returning guest actors from the same story. wonderful.

788
00:50:31.860 --> 00:50:35.400
We have Helio as Butler.

789
00:50:35.460 --> 00:50:36.420
Yes, that's right.

790
00:50:36.480 --> 00:50:37.199
Yeah, we do.

791
00:50:37.260 --> 00:50:46.860
We have Martin Jarvis, who it turns out only took the role for his children because by this time he was actually quite a big name actor.

792
00:50:46.980 --> 00:50:48.179
He was doing just William.

793
00:50:48.239 --> 00:50:49.440
He was doing lots of television.

794
00:50:49.500 --> 00:50:51.300
Actually, was he here ago?

795
00:50:51.360 --> 00:50:52.139
Did I?

796
00:50:52.199 --> 00:50:53.639
Yes, he was Captain Hilliard.

797
00:50:53.699 --> 00:50:56.159
So it was someone famous as Zabi in that story?

798
00:50:56.280 --> 00:50:58.019
Well, he wasn't famous at that point.

799
00:50:58.079 --> 00:50:58.800
Oh, okay.

800
00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:08.460
He had since become quite a big name, and he agreed to do it because his children love Doctor Who, and he felt that, you know, he couldn't turn it down even if it was a small part.

801
00:51:08.519 --> 00:51:13.619
But, you know, he did enjoy himself, but usually he wouldn't have been playing such a small part.

802
00:51:13.679 --> 00:51:19.800
He actually reads the novelisation and he does a hilarious Martin Jarvis impersonation.

803
00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:21.780
He's reading Butler's lines.

804
00:51:21.840 --> 00:51:22.679
It's really good.

805
00:51:22.739 --> 00:51:23.940
He does it very gruff.

806
00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:31.260
Can I just throw some praise out there for the scene with Pertwi at the military tribunal?

807
00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:32.940
Now 1st of all, it's being silly.

808
00:51:33.000 --> 00:51:33.900
He's being silly.

809
00:51:33.960 --> 00:51:43.619
It's Malcolm Hook reusing a scene he wrote for the war games with the military tribunal, but turning it into a comedy, rather than something dramatic.

810
00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:50.460
And what I love here is it is showing the evolution of the character of Pertwee's doctor.

811
00:51:50.519 --> 00:51:58.139
He actually tries to go along and play by the rules and be nice to them and respect the military for what they're doing.

812
00:51:58.199 --> 00:52:01.559
And then when they won't listen to him, he's like, right, now we'll get out of here.

813
00:52:01.679 --> 00:52:04.679
Well, he does the, how shall I stand?

814
00:52:04.739 --> 00:52:05.880
Is this my better side?

815
00:52:05.940 --> 00:52:07.019
Like, he does lots of things.

816
00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:09.179
How about one of the 2 of us?

817
00:52:10.139 --> 00:52:12.300
They're very cruel to him, though.

818
00:52:12.360 --> 00:52:21.480
I think by this time everyone was having a bit of sport with Pertz, and I think Pertz was far too aware of it, which is why you're going to appear to be so languid as to actually be doing a different television show during this one.

819
00:52:21.539 --> 00:52:23.639
Have you noticed some of the lines they're thrown in?

820
00:52:23.699 --> 00:52:26.039
It's a stegosaurus, a splendid specimen.

821
00:52:26.099 --> 00:52:28.860
You're trying saying that as John Pertweed.

822
00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:35.400
There are plenty of others. down here too.

823
00:52:35.460 --> 00:52:36.059
Keep going.

824
00:52:36.179 --> 00:52:46.920
And oh, I forgot to mention last story with Walsh Watch, of course, Terry Walsh swung across the room on the chandelier in Time Warrior in this.

825
00:52:46.980 --> 00:52:50.400
He not only appears occasionally, it's pert we stunt double.

826
00:52:50.460 --> 00:52:57.780
But in the 1st episode, the 2 looters who attacked John Pertwee. when they attacked John Pertwee, both of them are Terry Walsh.

827
00:52:57.840 --> 00:52:58.320
Wow.

828
00:52:58.320 --> 00:53:01.679
One after the other at all. spectacular.

829
00:53:01.739 --> 00:53:07.320
And yet, driving through the door when the doctor and Sarah drive through the door in the truck.

830
00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:10.019
Frame by frame, it's pertly.

831
00:53:10.079 --> 00:53:15.239
Kurt, we is driving through that door himself and Liz Slayton is holding on for dinner.

832
00:53:15.300 --> 00:53:18.539
It's like, okay, then. 3 weeks ago.

833
00:53:18.900 --> 00:53:24.719
As you would expect from a Malcolm Hawkes group. just lots of lovely character moments.

834
00:53:24.780 --> 00:53:36.659
Benton in the 1st episode is using his brain by suggesting there's some connection between power and the dinosaurs, which the brig kind of dismisses and says, oh, it doesn't really matter.

835
00:53:36.780 --> 00:53:38.519
Yeah, it gets a lot of dismissal on this one.

836
00:53:38.579 --> 00:53:50.699
Did you notice that is it in that scene when pertly looks supposedly at the brigadier, but he's actually staring right at John Levine when he says, don't be ridiculous, but brigadier, the brontosaurus is large, placid, and stupid.

837
00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:52.380
Yes, to a bit more of that in.

838
00:53:52.440 --> 00:53:57.420
And John Levine complained about it to the production folk, in a jokey way at the end of that shot.

839
00:53:57.480 --> 00:53:58.739
He was looking at me.

840
00:53:58.860 --> 00:54:04.139
You'll notice it turns up in robot. not too far off.

841
00:54:04.199 --> 00:54:09.179
You know, it's a wonderful story for both the unit supporting cast.

842
00:54:09.239 --> 00:54:11.039
It's not such a great story for Nick.

843
00:54:11.099 --> 00:54:13.920
I mean, Nick just he just gets to be the brig.

844
00:54:13.980 --> 00:54:17.519
But it's a great story for Richard Franklin. come back to that in a moment.

845
00:54:17.579 --> 00:54:23.639
It's a good one for Richard, and what a shock it must have been for the young folk at the time to see a turncoat within the ranks.

846
00:54:23.699 --> 00:54:26.340
Our Mike. 4 years or something.

847
00:54:26.460 --> 00:54:31.139
That Katie going off with a mushroom fancier must have really done his head in, don't you think?

848
00:54:31.199 --> 00:54:34.380
Yeah, seems to have just lost his way.

849
00:54:34.440 --> 00:54:36.300
Who knows what he'll end up doing next?

850
00:54:36.599 --> 00:54:40.980
But what's great about it is, again, being a Malcolm Folks script.

851
00:54:41.039 --> 00:54:50.280
He presents his argument in a sympathetic way where you might think, you know, I don't agree with him there, but I understand why the character has done this.

852
00:54:50.340 --> 00:54:57.420
Because there's nothing worse in shows where characters betray everyone and they don't have a good in character reason.

853
00:54:57.480 --> 00:55:00.300
What's his good in character reason for it?

854
00:55:00.360 --> 00:55:05.099
The last time we saw him, he got brainwashed by an organisation trying to destroy the planet.

855
00:55:05.159 --> 00:55:07.199
And the doctor brainwashes him back.

856
00:55:07.260 --> 00:55:13.980
So he's been brainwashed twice, and then he's exposed to this idea of not only will we not destroy the planet.

857
00:55:14.039 --> 00:55:16.980
We'll make it so the planet has never been destroyed and damaged.

858
00:55:17.039 --> 00:55:20.460
Even the doctor says, you know, it's a tempting idea, Mike.

859
00:55:20.519 --> 00:55:25.860
I like the idea, but it does make him a fanatic.

860
00:55:25.920 --> 00:55:30.000
Yeah, he's he's gone slightly mad, but he has also preserved his models.

861
00:55:30.059 --> 00:55:33.900
Whereas the other 4 people in this conspiracy are prepared to kill.

862
00:55:33.960 --> 00:55:37.380
Mike stands by the morals. you know, we can't kill people.

863
00:55:37.440 --> 00:55:43.260
I don't think he's really thought head to the fact that they're going to wipe out the 4000000000 people currently living on Earth or whatever.

864
00:55:43.320 --> 00:55:54.059
But for a series like Doctor Who to A, give a minor character, a character arc like that, and B, to have it reasonably well thought out is very, very impressive.

865
00:55:54.179 --> 00:55:56.219
At this time, I think. you're right.

866
00:55:56.280 --> 00:56:08.519
And even John Levine gets that great bit in episode 5 where the doctor's been betrayed and he's been arrested and whatnot ad, the doctors pick it out that it's Mike.

867
00:56:08.579 --> 00:56:14.159
Benton doesn't want to believe it, but just believes it anyway and says to the doctor, right, you better knock me out, Ben, hadn't you?

868
00:56:14.219 --> 00:56:21.840
And, you know, I actually, I actually get a bit of a lump in my throat of that moment because it's such a beautifully loyal moment.

869
00:56:21.840 --> 00:56:29.639
Because Benton is such a quiet character in the background, but he's always sort of stalwart and reliable.

870
00:56:29.639 --> 00:56:36.420
And, you know, he's, you know, that old phrase of a good friend will stand by you no matter what you do, a great friend will help you hide the body.

871
00:56:37.079 --> 00:56:40.619
Yeah, and that's that's the definition of Benton here.

872
00:56:40.739 --> 00:56:41.519
He is a great friend.

873
00:56:41.579 --> 00:56:44.880
And then the brig gets to do his bit of place yourself under arrest.

874
00:56:45.059 --> 00:56:48.179
Yeah, he's a great little piece.

875
00:56:48.239 --> 00:56:53.940
He gets that great moment in episode 6 too, where he punches General Finch, he knocks him out and sort of saves the world.

876
00:56:54.000 --> 00:57:00.420
And then at the very end he says that sort of hilarious thing, oh, it's not every day that you get to punch a general on the nose and everyone laughs.

877
00:57:00.420 --> 00:57:04.559
And the brigadier turns to him and just goes, yes, well, don't make a habit of it.

878
00:57:04.619 --> 00:57:10.019
And that's even more funny when you consider the, when you consider that a brigadier is a general.

879
00:57:10.079 --> 00:57:11.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

880
00:57:11.579 --> 00:57:14.460
Can we talk about the conspiracy?

881
00:57:14.519 --> 00:57:15.360
Yes.

882
00:57:15.420 --> 00:57:24.059
Sandra for dings the conspiracy for a very good reason, which is every single minor character introduced in the conspiracy.

883
00:57:24.119 --> 00:57:27.059
Yeah, it really doesn't hold together well, does it when you're watching it?

884
00:57:27.119 --> 00:57:31.619
So there's no uncertainty, like for a political thriller, it really doesn't quite work.

885
00:57:31.679 --> 00:57:45.000
I mean, the other problem with it is, of course, it makes our heroes look stupid because they're constantly explaining what they intend to do next to someone who unbeknownst to them is in the conspiracy.

886
00:57:45.059 --> 00:57:45.960
Do you know what I mean?

887
00:57:46.019 --> 00:57:47.400
Who then goes and thwarts them.

888
00:57:47.460 --> 00:57:51.840
So I think that's a big problem with the conspiracy plot.

889
00:57:51.900 --> 00:57:53.880
And then there's something else as well.

890
00:57:53.940 --> 00:57:56.159
And I think it sort of bears close to analysis.

891
00:57:56.219 --> 00:58:07.739
So, What we normally say when we're discussing this story is the end of last year, the last time we had a political thriller, it was the environmentalists were the good guys and big business were the bad guys.

892
00:58:07.800 --> 00:58:16.199
And here ostensibly it looks like we've got some crazy environmentalists on our hands who are going to kill a whole bunch of people and that's really interesting and why is Hulk doing that?

893
00:58:16.260 --> 00:58:33.840
But when we go to the spaceship and we meet Carmen Sylvia, it becomes pretty clear that the conspirators, like that the people on the spaceship aren't sort of left-wing environmentalists, but they're conservative and moralistic.

894
00:58:33.840 --> 00:58:39.659
And awfully reductive and they are the worst kind of conservatives.

895
00:58:39.719 --> 00:58:45.420
So they're almost religious in the sense that the things that Ruth lives.

896
00:58:45.480 --> 00:58:46.079
There's a cult.

897
00:58:46.139 --> 00:58:46.860
Yeah, yeah.

898
00:58:46.920 --> 00:58:51.059
She's against usury, which is just the Old Testament term for charging money at interest.

899
00:58:51.480 --> 00:58:53.639
And also a little bit. anti-Semitic.

900
00:58:53.699 --> 00:58:59.039
The usury term was also a bit of a veiled term like celestial for Asian usury, you know, point.

901
00:58:59.039 --> 00:59:04.920
You know, we're not going to have any of those long-nosed, beak nosed, long-shanked, orknosed people. hanging about.

902
00:59:04.980 --> 00:59:09.719
She also talks about moral degradation and permissiveness and stuff. as well.

903
00:59:09.780 --> 00:59:12.599
Yeah, you know, looking going to be...

904
00:59:12.659 --> 00:59:17.039
Yeah, you can't imagine she'd approve of Sarah. their trousers.

905
00:59:17.099 --> 00:59:17.639
Yes, exactly.

906
00:59:17.699 --> 00:59:24.239
And she's, because they, they'll lend so much more protection than an easy access skirt.

907
00:59:24.300 --> 00:59:25.679
I never quite got my head around back then.

908
00:59:25.739 --> 00:59:26.519
No, it's crazy.

909
00:59:26.579 --> 00:59:28.380
But she is a fascist.

910
00:59:28.440 --> 00:59:31.500
You know, she's an out and out totalitarian and she will kill Sarah.

911
00:59:31.559 --> 00:59:38.940
Like, that's what Mark says to Sarah, you know, that Ruth will get rid of her if she starts to spread dissent and things.

912
00:59:39.059 --> 00:59:40.980
We can't have new ideas.

913
00:59:41.039 --> 00:59:41.699
No.

914
00:59:41.699 --> 00:59:46.800
She's talking, spoken of as contaminating other members of the spaceship.

915
00:59:46.860 --> 00:59:49.320
If you look back at the time period.

916
00:59:49.380 --> 00:59:53.699
This is when, of course, the green movement was taking off in the UK.

917
00:59:53.880 --> 01:00:03.119
The green movement was originally a bunch of conservative landowners who didn't want bad things to happen to their land.

918
01:00:03.239 --> 01:00:14.579
So the green movement in the 70s in the United Kingdom was actually very conservative and what we would today call right wing.

919
01:00:14.639 --> 01:00:22.920
Yeah, there's a documentary on the DVD hosted by Matthew Suite, the British TV presenter and Doctor Who fan.

920
01:00:22.980 --> 01:00:24.719
It's perhaps unsurprising.

921
01:00:24.840 --> 01:00:29.460
And also Malcolm Hook has given all the colonists' biblical names.

922
01:00:29.519 --> 01:00:30.360
Yeah, yeah.

923
01:00:30.780 --> 01:00:31.860
Rose and Adam.

924
01:00:31.920 --> 01:00:33.059
Yeah, yeah.

925
01:00:33.119 --> 01:00:33.599
Yeah.

926
01:00:33.659 --> 01:00:35.699
I noticed it wasn't Adam and Eve.

927
01:00:35.760 --> 01:00:37.139
Adam's kind of handsome isn't he?

928
01:00:37.199 --> 01:00:39.659
You think he'd have been in Doctor before, but he never had.

929
01:00:39.719 --> 01:00:44.219
He seems like he's in every 2nd or 3rd heart or he's just that kind of actor, but no, he really hadn't been.

930
01:00:44.280 --> 01:00:46.739
Sarah's great on the spaceship, isn't she?

931
01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:48.360
She's really terrific.

932
01:00:48.420 --> 01:00:56.039
She, like, while Pertwee's riding around in the wretched homobile in episode 5 and boring...

933
01:00:56.099 --> 01:00:59.159
It's Brian Badcoe, who was, I didn't mention who was Adam.

934
01:00:59.219 --> 01:01:01.320
No, he hadn't been in Doctor Who before.

935
01:01:01.380 --> 01:01:02.880
The wretched Homobile.

936
01:01:02.940 --> 01:01:08.280
Do you know it was the Black Widow and Pertz Shaw saw it on show at a Seaside Pier, the guy who built it?

937
01:01:08.340 --> 01:01:09.179
I shall have that.

938
01:01:09.239 --> 01:01:11.400
And, uh...

939
01:01:11.460 --> 01:01:14.159
She called it the alien, but they painted out their tag.

940
01:01:14.219 --> 01:01:17.280
I loved the Homobile. was the biggest thing for me as a child.

941
01:01:17.340 --> 01:01:18.480
Oh, I think it's wonderful.

942
01:01:18.539 --> 01:01:20.699
Corgi did a tooling of it, but it was never released.

943
01:01:20.760 --> 01:01:22.380
Can you imagine how exciting that would have been?

944
01:01:22.440 --> 01:01:23.880
Day pole did.

945
01:01:23.880 --> 01:01:24.960
Day pole, too.

946
01:01:25.019 --> 01:01:26.280
It wouldn't have looked half as good.

947
01:01:26.340 --> 01:01:29.159
I have seen the corgi model. looks amazingly.

948
01:01:29.219 --> 01:01:33.780
The day Paul version made it into their catalogue, like coming up soon.

949
01:01:33.840 --> 01:01:37.739
I've got a picture of it, donated by a friend of the podcast, Tony Bird.

950
01:01:37.800 --> 01:01:39.179
I'll give it to you back.

951
01:01:39.239 --> 01:01:40.139
I started carving one.

952
01:01:40.199 --> 01:01:44.579
I actually started building a one to 43 of it.

953
01:01:44.639 --> 01:01:45.420
But it's a lot of work.

954
01:01:45.480 --> 01:01:48.539
I've never got it finished, but it's quite fiddly, but I've done the main body and wings.

955
01:01:48.599 --> 01:01:51.480
No, no, it's an important thing for us, young man.

956
01:01:51.539 --> 01:01:54.480
Have you seen the blue pizza?

957
01:01:54.539 --> 01:01:55.380
talked about cars.

958
01:01:55.440 --> 01:01:57.599
Yeah, the Blue Peter clip. of it?

959
01:01:57.659 --> 01:02:00.119
Have you seen that when they're pretending it's a hovercraft?

960
01:02:00.179 --> 01:02:00.780
It's hilarious.

961
01:02:00.840 --> 01:02:02.400
And Peter Purvis in it?

962
01:02:02.460 --> 01:02:04.320
Yeah, Peter Purpose is interviewing John Purey.

963
01:02:04.380 --> 01:02:07.199
Peter Purpose appears to genuinely believe the thing can fly.

964
01:02:08.159 --> 01:02:10.019
He gets a bit confused.

965
01:02:10.139 --> 01:02:12.119
I'm sure he's just doing it for us at home.

966
01:02:12.179 --> 01:02:16.260
He was after all, you know, not unfamiliar with the Doctor Who ethos.

967
01:02:16.440 --> 01:02:31.139
Don't you get the impression that Pertz, at this, at the earlier part of this story at least, was thinking, you know, I can milk a lot of cash out of this one, turning up at any pavilion and school show and whatever else and charging for appearances as Mr. BBC Future Man.

968
01:02:31.199 --> 01:02:33.780
But Bowie was still in the charts just.

969
01:02:33.840 --> 01:02:37.320
So, yeah, yeah, with his with his spacey car thing.

970
01:02:37.380 --> 01:02:40.019
And yeah, that's kind of, I think that's actually where he was coming from.

971
01:02:40.079 --> 01:02:42.780
But there is a moment during this where it went from.

972
01:02:42.840 --> 01:02:47.219
He was going to stay to negotiations were going pretty foul.

973
01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:49.079
And then in the next story, we'll see.

974
01:02:49.139 --> 01:02:56.760
You can actually, I think you can you can judge in death to the Daleks, where he decides that or whatever reason that you can actually see where he says, that's it.

975
01:02:56.820 --> 01:02:59.880
But in this one, he was pulling all the plugs.

976
01:02:59.940 --> 01:03:06.360
Although again, as they said, he was apparently terribly apathetic about the whole role during the shoot of this, maybe because of those negotiations.

977
01:03:06.360 --> 01:03:12.780
And Liz said, Liz Sladden later said, you know, she was kind of floundering around on her own because she wasn't getting anything much more pertly on in the performance.

978
01:03:12.840 --> 01:03:14.760
I think that actually helps.

979
01:03:14.820 --> 01:03:18.179
He's the sense of isolated from him for quite a bit.

980
01:03:18.239 --> 01:03:18.900
Yeah, yeah.

981
01:03:18.900 --> 01:03:20.940
She is great in the scenes that she's here.

982
01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:21.420
Really?

983
01:03:21.480 --> 01:03:23.519
She's, we haven't seen, we see, you know, do anything.

984
01:03:23.579 --> 01:03:24.539
Okay, we're 2 stories in.

985
01:03:24.599 --> 01:03:28.920
Have we seen Miss Slowden do anything that we're not comfortable or happy with?

986
01:03:29.039 --> 01:03:30.000
against the character?

987
01:03:30.059 --> 01:03:31.380
I haven't seen one moment yet.

988
01:03:31.440 --> 01:03:33.239
She led a commando raid in the time.

989
01:03:33.239 --> 01:03:33.900
She did?

990
01:03:33.960 --> 01:03:34.739
Warrior.

991
01:03:34.800 --> 01:03:39.179
She leads everyone out of the spaceship.

992
01:03:39.239 --> 01:03:40.260
She's really terrific.

993
01:03:40.320 --> 01:03:44.400
Yeah, she's got that wonderful mannerism where if she's contemplating something, She bites her thumb.

994
01:03:44.760 --> 01:03:48.599
And you know, I've only noticed that watching these in order again.

995
01:03:48.659 --> 01:03:55.380
But, you know, when she has a look at the spaceship controls for the 1st time, she stands back and bites her thumb for a 2nd and then...

996
01:03:55.500 --> 01:03:59.099
And then I noticed it again in Planet of the Spiders and Death to the Daleks.

997
01:03:59.159 --> 01:04:00.900
Yeah, no, she's she's great.

998
01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:01.500
She's amazing.

999
01:04:01.559 --> 01:04:04.260
Barry was very canny and Barry knew John very well.

1000
01:04:04.320 --> 01:04:07.739
I think Barry knew John better than John knew himself.

1001
01:04:07.800 --> 01:04:09.780
Because John's been pretty great, hasn't it?

1002
01:04:09.840 --> 01:04:12.780
Yeah, John was not a self- reflective person at all.

1003
01:04:12.840 --> 01:04:13.380
Yeah.

1004
01:04:13.380 --> 01:04:16.440
Whereas Barry was very self-reflected.

1005
01:04:16.500 --> 01:04:23.460
Barry and Terence did instruct writers to write Sarah Jane as an independent character who had her own story thread.

1006
01:04:24.179 --> 01:04:32.699
So if she was away from the doctor, she was doing her own thing, which led to the conclusion of the story, even if she made a mistake, that was okay, but she had to be proactive.

1007
01:04:32.760 --> 01:04:41.159
And I think they were very aware that John was petering out, if not, was definitely going to leave at the same time they did.

1008
01:04:41.219 --> 01:04:44.699
So I think they've deliberately written her as a co-lead.

1009
01:04:44.760 --> 01:04:50.280
And stronger than the original casting of the Smith character, which was neither gender.

1010
01:04:50.340 --> 01:04:51.420
It was just the character Smith.

1011
01:04:51.480 --> 01:04:52.019
They hadn't decided.

1012
01:04:52.079 --> 01:04:54.179
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

1013
01:04:54.300 --> 01:04:58.739
I think, though, that because she's so good, it does reinvigorate John a little bit.

1014
01:04:58.800 --> 01:05:00.000
Yeah, I think so too.

1015
01:05:00.059 --> 01:05:05.880
Yeah, he definitely he'll come up to the mark when he's got other people around him who are, you know, putting the work in.

1016
01:05:05.940 --> 01:05:13.320
I mean, there's that wonderful Hanna-Barbera bit when the doctor is working on his working on his dinosaur stun gun and people keep disturbing him.

1017
01:05:13.380 --> 01:05:17.039
And then eventually at the end of the scene, he just does a double face parment.

1018
01:05:17.039 --> 01:05:17.760
Oh, no.

1019
01:05:19.739 --> 01:05:22.920
And that seems really funny in the novelisation as well.

1020
01:05:22.980 --> 01:05:27.420
Yeah, yeah, yeah. it's great And oh, another great chemistry thing.

1021
01:05:27.480 --> 01:05:29.880
And it's probably down to Elizabeth Sladen more than anyone else.

1022
01:05:30.179 --> 01:05:36.360
Sarah and Mike hit it off straight away. like their very 1st scene together.

1023
01:05:36.420 --> 01:05:38.340
There's more character between them.

1024
01:05:38.400 --> 01:05:42.059
There's more relationship between them than in 3 years of Mike and Joe Grant.

1025
01:05:42.179 --> 01:05:43.800
Well, maybe 2 years.

1026
01:05:43.920 --> 01:05:46.980
He does really stop appearing in season 10.

1027
01:05:47.219 --> 01:05:51.000
Yeah, they only get like, Yeah, he only gets one season with Joe in season 10, doesn't he?

1028
01:05:51.599 --> 01:05:53.699
Sarah and Mike.

1029
01:05:53.760 --> 01:06:01.679
Yeah, that great scene early on when they're discussing silent London and they're both sort of gently pushing their own ideas and agenda.

1030
01:06:01.739 --> 01:06:05.579
And then Sarah leaves and says, I might go chat up that nice Captain Yates.

1031
01:06:05.639 --> 01:06:06.179
And you know what?

1032
01:06:06.239 --> 01:06:13.619
While I could never believe in a 1000000 years, Joe and Mike going on a date together, I could believe Mike and Sarah going on a date together.

1033
01:06:13.860 --> 01:06:18.300
You know, she's way out of his league, but I know, I think...

1034
01:06:18.300 --> 01:06:28.679
Yeah, I can see them both hitting the kind of bars that Sarah would be quite happy to hang out with, you know, so I can see her hagging and, you know, in Double X early in London.

1035
01:06:28.739 --> 01:06:30.840
We didn't mention Sir Charles Grover.

1036
01:06:30.900 --> 01:06:34.139
He was the king of Atlantis in underwater menace.

1037
01:06:34.199 --> 01:06:35.820
Oh, God, yes.

1038
01:06:35.880 --> 01:06:36.840
But no one remembers that story.

1039
01:06:36.900 --> 01:06:37.260
Yeah.

1040
01:06:37.320 --> 01:06:38.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1041
01:06:38.099 --> 01:06:41.039
You've had so much slap on and sequence, you could.

1042
01:06:41.460 --> 01:06:42.420
Noel Coleman.

1043
01:06:42.480 --> 01:06:46.739
And he turns up again as the high priest of the cats in Red Dwarf season one.

1044
01:06:47.039 --> 01:06:49.199
He does too.

1045
01:06:49.260 --> 01:06:52.079
Oh, and General Smythe in the war games.

1046
01:06:53.039 --> 01:06:55.320
I think we're mixing people up.

1047
01:06:55.380 --> 01:06:56.340
No, no Coleman.

1048
01:06:56.880 --> 01:06:59.699
It is no, no, it's no Johnson.

1049
01:06:59.760 --> 01:07:01.199
No Johnson place.

1050
01:07:01.260 --> 01:07:02.039
I'm mixing people up.

1051
01:07:02.099 --> 01:07:02.880
Please ignore me.

1052
01:07:02.940 --> 01:07:05.400
Don't cut it out because it's worth having a look at.

1053
01:07:05.519 --> 01:07:06.960
But no, Noel Johnson.

1054
01:07:07.019 --> 01:07:10.139
It's not really a glowing performance. an underwater menace, but what is in that one?

1055
01:07:10.199 --> 01:07:15.420
But yeah, we've done, go back, dear listener, and have a listen to that fabulous podcast if you missed it.

1056
01:07:15.480 --> 01:07:18.840
The cast loved working with Julia Smith, as we well know.

1057
01:07:20.579 --> 01:07:24.300
Gosh, it seems so long since the 60s, doesn't it?

1058
01:07:24.360 --> 01:07:28.139
Well, not just for the poor listener who's having to charge through all this.

1059
01:07:28.199 --> 01:07:32.940
But it might as well be a decade or more, even though we're only 1974.

1060
01:07:33.179 --> 01:07:35.159
There's nothing left.

1061
01:07:35.219 --> 01:07:39.780
Yeah, there's nothing left of, it doesn't even feel like that era of Doctor Who.

1062
01:07:39.840 --> 01:07:42.780
And yet we're heading towards the end of this one as well.

1063
01:07:42.840 --> 01:07:43.860
Things move so quickly.

1064
01:07:43.920 --> 01:07:45.599
They do, they do.

1065
01:07:45.599 --> 01:07:48.960
Much more rapidly than this lovely podcast.

1066
01:07:49.019 --> 01:07:50.519
It might be said.

1067
01:07:50.579 --> 01:07:51.300
Where are we up to?

1068
01:07:51.360 --> 01:07:52.380
Invasion of the dinosaurs.

1069
01:07:52.440 --> 01:07:53.159
How are we going with that one?

1070
01:07:53.219 --> 01:07:53.820
Are we done?

1071
01:07:53.880 --> 01:07:54.659
Where are we?

1072
01:07:54.719 --> 01:07:56.219
Right, right.

1073
01:07:56.219 --> 01:07:58.800
Your answer's on the back of a postcard and we'll ignore them.

1074
01:07:59.219 --> 01:08:02.159
If anyone, you know, hasn't seen this yet.

1075
01:08:02.219 --> 01:08:06.599
It's not unlikely that you haven't came out very late. as a DVD.

1076
01:08:06.659 --> 01:08:13.559
If I had a pick of the week, it would be to read the paper book back version of Invasion of the Dinosaurs because it was how I came to this.

1077
01:08:13.619 --> 01:08:16.680
And it was one of me fave perts of the 70s.

1078
01:08:16.739 --> 01:08:18.479
I read this in about 77, 78.

1079
01:08:18.600 --> 01:08:19.739
It just came out?

1080
01:08:19.859 --> 01:08:21.180
I read and reread it.

1081
01:08:21.239 --> 01:08:22.260
I don't think you can get it.

1082
01:08:22.319 --> 01:08:22.859
Do you know what I mean?

1083
01:08:22.920 --> 01:08:23.939
Is it not our theme?

1084
01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:27.659
Maybe if we have a spare and someone loves us, we can send one off. don't know.

1085
01:08:27.720 --> 01:08:29.939
I might have a spare. can buy the audiobook.

1086
01:08:30.060 --> 01:08:30.779
Oh can you?

1087
01:08:30.840 --> 01:08:31.260
Yeah.

1088
01:08:31.319 --> 01:08:32.340
I just like reading them.

1089
01:08:32.399 --> 01:08:42.359
I can remember reading it on a very cold day on a bus, that opening chapter, even though it's so long ago because Malcolm Holt... with Shuey McPherson.

1090
01:08:42.420 --> 01:08:42.720
It?

1091
01:08:42.779 --> 01:08:43.380
It's wonderful.

1092
01:08:43.439 --> 01:08:53.579
And then the epilogue with them walking through the busted up bookstore and finding a Bible and saying that perhaps apparitions in the Bible are actually aliens.

1093
01:08:53.640 --> 01:08:54.600
God, that's amazing.

1094
01:08:54.659 --> 01:08:57.180
And that seems that's his 2nd vinyl.

1095
01:08:57.180 --> 01:08:58.140
That's all kind of novelisation.

1096
01:08:58.199 --> 01:08:59.279
Remember, Ash is...

1097
01:08:59.279 --> 01:09:00.659
Ash had a...

1098
01:09:00.659 --> 01:09:01.859
A book about himself.

1099
01:09:01.920 --> 01:09:11.279
After David Whitaker himself in an adventure with the Daleks, Malcolm Hulk is by far my favourite Doctor Who writer of all time in the novelisation.

1100
01:09:11.399 --> 01:09:13.140
In any novel, in any book form.

1101
01:09:13.199 --> 01:09:15.000
And that's all the new ones as well.

1102
01:09:15.060 --> 01:09:20.699
He's so good As iconic as that 1st cover is with the sunset over London and the clock.

1103
01:09:20.760 --> 01:09:22.260
I like the 2nd one.

1104
01:09:22.319 --> 01:09:23.939
The addition I have.

1105
01:09:24.000 --> 01:09:26.220
The T-Rex in front of the Whitehall.

1106
01:09:26.220 --> 01:09:30.720
It's subtle and beautifully done and really atmospherically lit and is it a Jeff?

1107
01:09:30.779 --> 01:09:32.100
Who did the Jeff down?

1108
01:09:32.159 --> 01:09:34.199
Who did the painting for that one?

1109
01:09:34.260 --> 01:09:39.720
It's the same guy who did the talons of Wing Cheyenne cover with a beautiful portrait of Tom Baker.

1110
01:09:39.779 --> 01:09:41.579
I do love the targets.

1111
01:09:41.640 --> 01:09:43.380
Actually, I think it's not Whitehall.

1112
01:09:43.439 --> 01:09:43.859
I think at St.

1113
01:09:43.859 --> 01:09:44.220
Paul's.

1114
01:09:44.340 --> 01:09:46.140
I think it's cool, yeah.

1115
01:09:46.199 --> 01:09:49.560
A few more things before we move on to the end of the story.

1116
01:09:49.619 --> 01:09:51.300
Corporal Bell.

1117
01:09:51.359 --> 01:09:53.520
Sorry, Corporal Bryson.

1118
01:09:53.579 --> 01:09:55.079
I wish Corporal Girl was burned.

1119
01:09:55.140 --> 01:09:56.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1120
01:09:56.819 --> 01:09:57.600
Why wasn't she there?

1121
01:09:57.659 --> 01:10:03.180
There's another RT operator, but then we get another private in the last episode who is the one telling Sarah.

1122
01:10:03.239 --> 01:10:03.840
Everyone's gone.

1123
01:10:03.899 --> 01:10:04.500
No one's here.

1124
01:10:04.560 --> 01:10:05.279
I mean, no, no.

1125
01:10:05.340 --> 01:10:06.659
The actor playing him is 51.

1126
01:10:06.779 --> 01:10:07.800
Really?

1127
01:10:07.859 --> 01:10:10.020
John Bennett at this point was 46.

1128
01:10:10.199 --> 01:10:10.920
Wow.

1129
01:10:10.979 --> 01:10:12.479
You know, wow, wow.

1130
01:10:12.539 --> 01:10:14.340
Obviously, some people moisturise.

1131
01:10:14.399 --> 01:10:22.079
Now, with the whole thing about power shortages and having your own power and whatnot, at this point, Britain was on the 3 day week.

1132
01:10:22.140 --> 01:10:23.279
We were.

1133
01:10:23.279 --> 01:10:28.979
With the power strikes and what have you, which will give us tones in the next 2 stories as well.

1134
01:10:29.039 --> 01:10:40.979
And also was one of the key things to get rid of the conservative government that was in the UK at this time.

1135
01:10:41.039 --> 01:10:44.819
Yeah, just a few more memory, just a few more memories of this for me.

1136
01:10:44.880 --> 01:10:51.239
The time sound effect, that sort of screeching sound effect whenever there is a terrified me as a child.

1137
01:10:51.300 --> 01:10:53.279
It's good. really good.

1138
01:10:53.340 --> 01:11:00.479
But where the sound effects do fall down a bit is the dinosaur rules, which is, um, it's it's a cat's played backwards.

1139
01:11:00.539 --> 01:11:01.079
Did you know that?

1140
01:11:01.140 --> 01:11:03.119
Well, I think that...

1141
01:11:03.180 --> 01:11:11.460
My friend, my friend Peter McTyre used to say that it was a guy actually saying the word raw. into a microphone.

1142
01:11:11.520 --> 01:11:12.600
It was Dick Mills.

1143
01:11:12.659 --> 01:11:16.199
It was Dick Mills saying, I think in...

1144
01:11:16.260 --> 01:11:17.340
We don't encourage this at home.

1145
01:11:17.399 --> 01:11:19.979
I think in terms of the stegosaurus.

1146
01:11:20.039 --> 01:11:23.760
They were a bit more animalistic because that sounded a bit more natural with all those growths.

1147
01:11:23.939 --> 01:11:29.159
Yeah, the Segosaurus, yeah, Lett said, oh, surely they're more feline, so they, yeah, they put a cat noise backwards.

1148
01:11:29.220 --> 01:11:30.060
It doesn't sound that bad, actually.

1149
01:11:30.119 --> 01:11:33.420
But yeah, the T-Rex goes roar.

1150
01:11:33.420 --> 01:11:40.020
And the, and the Brontosaurus slash Apatosaurus goes...

1151
01:11:40.020 --> 01:11:41.880
So good.

1152
01:11:41.939 --> 01:11:43.739
Outrageous.

1153
01:11:43.800 --> 01:11:55.380
I have a question before we move on because when Sarah finally does convince the colonists they're actually on a spaceship, one of the background colonists says, this can't be a fake.

1154
01:11:55.439 --> 01:11:57.600
I went into everything very carefully.

1155
01:11:57.659 --> 01:11:58.619
I sold my house.

1156
01:11:58.680 --> 01:12:00.420
How exactly did you research this?

1157
01:12:01.199 --> 01:12:03.300
Such a great line?

1158
01:12:03.359 --> 01:12:04.800
I sold my house.

1159
01:12:04.859 --> 01:12:05.699
I was such...

1160
01:12:05.880 --> 01:12:10.619
He actually ends up as a member of the scientific reform society, I think, actually.

1161
01:12:10.680 --> 01:12:12.000
Yes, he actually hands up his own.

1162
01:12:12.000 --> 01:12:12.899
All adds up, doesn't he?

1163
01:12:12.960 --> 01:12:14.100
Hands up as a receptionist.

1164
01:12:14.159 --> 01:12:25.979
One of the things that I really, really like about this, and it's not in the novelisation, which we said ended up in the bookshop, is that the doctor tries to persuade Sarah to get him the TARDIS again with him.

1165
01:12:25.979 --> 01:12:29.399
And he sort of does this to Joe, doesn't he, at the beginning of the Green Death.

1166
01:12:29.460 --> 01:12:34.739
He sort of says, I'm offering you all of time and space, you know, she decides to stay on earth.

1167
01:12:34.800 --> 01:12:42.300
But he does what the doctor does now in the new series all the time, which is to describe somewhere beautiful and alienating and exotic.

1168
01:12:42.300 --> 01:12:43.619
Which we then never see.

1169
01:12:43.680 --> 01:12:45.420
It's the planet Florana.

1170
01:12:45.479 --> 01:12:51.300
They are heading towards the planet Florana at the beginning of the next story, like, and it is mentioned in dialogue a bit.

1171
01:12:51.359 --> 01:13:00.720
But just the best thing about it is the way that it's done is, of course, Sarah's adamant that she's not going to go and the doctor keeps explaining it.

1172
01:13:00.779 --> 01:13:08.460
And then she starts smiling and putting her hands over her ears because even she realises that she's going to be persuaded and then we're out.

1173
01:13:08.520 --> 01:13:09.720
Like, we don't see it.

1174
01:13:09.779 --> 01:13:11.520
That's when the credits come in.

1175
01:13:11.579 --> 01:13:12.359
I think it's lovely.

1176
01:13:12.420 --> 01:13:13.500
I think it's really delightful.

1177
01:13:13.560 --> 01:13:15.779
Yeah, and then she gets to do her swimswear shot.

1178
01:13:15.899 --> 01:13:19.739
Straight from 1942 in the next story coming up.

1179
01:13:19.800 --> 01:13:22.560
Todd in his previous appearance has some questions for us.

1180
01:13:22.619 --> 01:13:23.640
We've already had.

1181
01:13:24.180 --> 01:13:27.600
There are some new opening credits, and I think they're my favourite of the 1970s.

1182
01:13:27.659 --> 01:13:28.439
Are they yours?

1183
01:13:28.560 --> 01:13:30.420
Oh, yes, they do.

1184
01:13:31.560 --> 01:13:35.399
Todd's question for Invasion of the Dinosaurs is this.

1185
01:13:35.460 --> 01:13:43.739
Can the storyline, the characters and the acting overcome the Jenning Laird award nominated special effects?

1186
01:13:43.800 --> 01:13:46.439
I thought it could, but now at times, I'm not so sure.

1187
01:13:46.500 --> 01:13:47.159
No.

1188
01:13:47.220 --> 01:13:48.600
I think we've answered that one.

1189
01:13:48.659 --> 01:13:54.659
I think it's actually a great distraction that the effects kind of muffle that there's a lot of plodding.

1190
01:13:54.720 --> 01:13:58.500
It's a very thin premise, the deserted London.

1191
01:13:58.560 --> 01:14:00.539
I think it would have worked better as an alien invasion.

1192
01:14:00.600 --> 01:14:07.979
There were going to be eggs 5 years before alien, huge shaped egg things all over London that would be going to start hatching in the Tower of London.

1193
01:14:08.039 --> 01:14:12.300
And then you'd start to pull back and you'd see them. giant lizards.

1194
01:14:12.359 --> 01:14:13.140
I can only hope.

1195
01:14:13.260 --> 01:14:18.600
I think the story does overcome the special effects, but clearly I'm outvoted.

1196
01:14:18.659 --> 01:14:23.159
Well, look, I mean, it's that usual pertry thing where terrible pertry is still pretty entertaining.

1197
01:14:23.220 --> 01:14:24.180
It's not terrible.

1198
01:14:24.239 --> 01:14:27.779
I don't think there's anything this, well, so far in this season's overcalled terrible.

1199
01:14:27.840 --> 01:14:32.399
But we are coming up on something which pertly considered rather terrible.

1200
01:14:32.460 --> 01:14:34.199
Oh, what's that?

1201
01:14:34.260 --> 01:14:36.060
I think I think we're I think we're dropping out.

1202
01:14:36.119 --> 01:14:36.840
We're losing power.

1203
01:14:48.899 --> 01:14:50.340
It's an oboe.

1204
01:14:50.399 --> 01:14:51.840
It's a mediaeval over.

1205
01:14:52.439 --> 01:14:55.319
Okay, don't panic, guys.

1206
01:14:55.380 --> 01:15:01.079
I've hand cranked the recording apparatus, so we've landed on Excelon with depth to the Daleks.

1207
01:15:01.199 --> 01:15:02.520
Oh, let me say something.

1208
01:15:03.119 --> 01:15:04.800
Is this your story?

1209
01:15:04.859 --> 01:15:07.079
I don't think we can stop it.

1210
01:15:07.140 --> 01:15:10.079
This is the 1st Doctor Who story that I ever saw.

1211
01:15:10.319 --> 01:15:16.739
And what happened was I was in 4th class, year four.

1212
01:15:16.800 --> 01:15:23.880
So primary school and my friend Luke Dwelley brought in the Doctor Who Monster book.

1213
01:15:24.000 --> 01:15:28.439
And I think my research tells me that it's the 2nd edition of the monster book.

1214
01:15:28.500 --> 01:15:29.939
We talked about Doctor Who.

1215
01:15:30.000 --> 01:15:31.500
I looked at the Doctor Who Monster book.

1216
01:15:31.560 --> 01:15:36.600
I knew who the 4 doctors to date where I knew about Daleks inside and end.

1217
01:15:36.659 --> 01:15:40.020
And on the 19th of June, 1978.

1218
01:15:40.319 --> 01:15:48.779
He told me that into nights, Doctor Who, the Daleks were going to be in it, and I should actually watch it instead of just talking about it at school.

1219
01:15:48.840 --> 01:15:49.920
Oh, isn't that lovely?

1220
01:15:49.920 --> 01:15:56.460
Because Harry Blyton's back with the London saxophone quartet and that's why everyone had to watch it.

1221
01:15:56.520 --> 01:16:04.560
Do you know, in fact, I think that the music for this story, and particularly for episode one, is spectacularly good.

1222
01:16:04.619 --> 01:16:06.300
Is it just us that thinks that?

1223
01:16:06.359 --> 01:16:07.079
do you know what?

1224
01:16:07.140 --> 01:16:17.880
As an as a boy, it was this rift, the 3 blind mice rift for the Daleks plotting plonking about, and the we're running through Paris, running through Paris, from city of Paris?

1225
01:16:17.880 --> 01:16:21.359
Are the only 2 bits that I really, really used to hear in my head as a child?

1226
01:16:21.420 --> 01:16:26.939
That theme for the Daleks doesn't turn up until episode two, of course, and the Daleks appear at the end of episode.

1227
01:16:27.000 --> 01:16:38.159
Lovely atmospherics when you get to the, and how good, thankfully, we're back in quarries. and doesn't it look a terrific, beautifully leaves proper dark, shaking, cold, fog lit?

1228
01:16:38.220 --> 01:16:41.279
Sarah, Liz again carries it off beautifully herself.

1229
01:16:41.340 --> 01:16:52.619
There's a spectacular scene where Liz is running away from something and there's all this mist blowing up, you know, across the heels in the quarry and things and it looks completely otherworldly.

1230
01:16:52.680 --> 01:16:54.239
It's so frightening.

1231
01:16:54.300 --> 01:17:02.460
Carrie Blyton has got some kind of terrifying, terrifying atmosphere thing going all the way through the Excelon attack.

1232
01:17:02.520 --> 01:17:17.880
He develops a theme for the city and the excellence as well as a theme for the Daleks and the chanting, the sort of Gregorian chants that the Exxons doing episode 2 later goes on to become the city's theme.

1233
01:17:17.939 --> 01:17:19.979
I think the music is really great.

1234
01:17:20.039 --> 01:17:23.939
It's perfect, and it owes a lot more to the, again, we've mentioned H.

1235
01:17:23.939 --> 01:17:33.779
Ryder, Haggard and She, but all the backstory of the primitive city. lost, you know, the lost civilisation stuff is very much Edgar Rice Burrows and Henry Wright, Sir Henry Writer Haggart.

1236
01:17:33.840 --> 01:17:35.399
I love that novel sheet.

1237
01:17:35.460 --> 01:17:38.340
And Sarah's the perfect companion to be in this.

1238
01:17:38.399 --> 01:17:40.800
How beautiful is that city when we finally see it.

1239
01:17:40.920 --> 01:17:44.640
How lovely are the sound effects and the...

1240
01:17:44.699 --> 01:17:45.960
Yeah the sound effects are great for it.

1241
01:17:46.020 --> 01:17:46.800
It's really true.

1242
01:17:46.859 --> 01:17:48.060
I really, really love it.

1243
01:17:48.119 --> 01:17:54.420
You say that it has its roots in H, right, haggard, but it does very much have its roots in planet of the Daleks, doesn't it?

1244
01:17:54.479 --> 01:17:56.760
Well, which is also right a hagard.

1245
01:17:56.819 --> 01:18:00.420
I wasn't on that. which is also, but it's actually the same book. whatever's left over.

1246
01:18:00.539 --> 01:18:02.460
They been using that. thrown into this.

1247
01:18:02.579 --> 01:18:10.020
So last time when we did Planet of the Dialects, I gave a list of things and we worked out a big list of things that were from previous Dialect stories.

1248
01:18:10.140 --> 01:18:12.539
So let's do that again.

1249
01:18:12.600 --> 01:18:16.500
The Daleks encounter a humanoid expedition on an alien planet.

1250
01:18:16.560 --> 01:18:20.220
They subjugate the native population.

1251
01:18:20.279 --> 01:18:24.119
At least one of the natives is a sympathetic guy who's on our side.

1252
01:18:24.239 --> 01:18:25.439
Glad in dark, chick.

1253
01:18:25.500 --> 01:18:27.899
The Daleks use plague bombs.

1254
01:18:27.960 --> 01:18:28.920
Check.

1255
01:18:28.979 --> 01:18:31.380
People carry bombs around a great deal.

1256
01:18:31.500 --> 01:18:34.500
Somebody's called Tarrant.

1257
01:18:34.560 --> 01:18:34.859
Yes.

1258
01:18:34.859 --> 01:18:35.340
Yes.

1259
01:18:35.399 --> 01:18:36.359
Someone's called Taran Orton.

1260
01:18:36.420 --> 01:18:37.380
No, someone is called Tarrant.

1261
01:18:37.439 --> 01:18:40.619
Jill Tarrant is too. cast himself as a laird in.

1262
01:18:40.680 --> 01:18:44.340
The Daleks appear at the end of episode one for the 1st time.

1263
01:18:44.399 --> 01:18:45.300
Yep.

1264
01:18:45.359 --> 01:18:47.039
The Daleks have no power.

1265
01:18:47.100 --> 01:18:48.960
So he's stealing from David Whittaker now.

1266
01:18:49.020 --> 01:18:51.119
Power.

1267
01:18:51.119 --> 01:18:54.359
And Sarah's sidelined for a grade deal of it.

1268
01:18:54.420 --> 01:18:55.680
She's a girl and it's attack.

1269
01:18:55.739 --> 01:18:57.060
It's a terry nations group.

1270
01:18:57.119 --> 01:18:57.659
But you know what, though?

1271
01:18:57.720 --> 01:19:01.260
I love all of that because this is no longer just Niken.

1272
01:19:01.319 --> 01:19:02.460
This is homage.

1273
01:19:02.520 --> 01:19:08.819
This is the very last story in the history of everything where we'll have proper Whitaker 60s Daleks.

1274
01:19:08.819 --> 01:19:15.420
Because the very next story coming up, a whole new universe next year, the D word comes up and Daleks will never be the same again.

1275
01:19:15.479 --> 01:19:16.199
That's right.

1276
01:19:16.260 --> 01:19:17.579
That bloke in a bath chair.

1277
01:19:17.699 --> 01:19:20.520
Smoken under his mask.

1278
01:19:21.119 --> 01:19:30.000
From a purely aesthetic point of view, This colour scheme is actually my favourite classic darlic colour scheme is silver and black.

1279
01:19:30.119 --> 01:19:30.779
I haven't seen it before.

1280
01:19:30.840 --> 01:19:40.859
Also because it's the 1st time that the rank and file Daleks have been metallic in full colour and they actually look...

1281
01:19:40.979 --> 01:19:49.680
I know the props themselves are a bit broken and a bit ratty, but the silver paint job really makes them look smart and professional and like they could be deadly.

1282
01:19:49.739 --> 01:19:52.380
Yeah, you know, a little boy, because they look mechanical.

1283
01:19:52.439 --> 01:19:53.340
They look like metal, yeah.

1284
01:19:53.399 --> 01:19:53.939
Yeah, exactly.

1285
01:19:54.000 --> 01:19:57.359
And they are back to the Whittaker style of cunning and subterfuge.

1286
01:19:57.420 --> 01:19:59.340
They have to, we can see why they're conquering heroes.

1287
01:19:59.399 --> 01:20:02.880
It's not that they're ungainly because...

1288
01:20:02.939 --> 01:20:04.020
Yeah, yeah, they're talking about it.

1289
01:20:04.079 --> 01:20:08.520
Because one of them has a nervous breakdown and explodes because they hit by steep...

1290
01:20:08.579 --> 01:20:12.300
But we're talking about the 1st episode where they have to use their cunning.

1291
01:20:12.359 --> 01:20:16.079
They're no longer, you see how much they panic when they can't shoot anyone.

1292
01:20:16.140 --> 01:20:18.239
And so they have to be horribly clever.

1293
01:20:18.300 --> 01:20:23.220
When we get a point of the Daleks were conquering heroes in the comics at least, because they had to use their heads.

1294
01:20:23.279 --> 01:20:42.060
You know, I actually, I actually think one of the least interesting things about this story is that the Daleks are without power because it gives us a resolution to the episode one cliffhanger and then 5 minutes later they've been fitted with different guns and they just go on being unpleasant and mean to everyone and threatening to kill them anyway.

1295
01:20:42.300 --> 01:20:58.020
It's almost as if everyone's so excited by the thought that Terry Nations had an actual new idea at some point since the Daleks in 1964 that they failed to notice that it's really only 5 minutes of the actual running time. all you need those.

1296
01:20:58.079 --> 01:21:03.899
The thing is, though, I think this is a really interesting story from a plot point of view.

1297
01:21:03.960 --> 01:21:05.340
I think it's got a really great plot.

1298
01:21:05.399 --> 01:21:08.279
I don't actually think it's that good a Dalek story.

1299
01:21:08.340 --> 01:21:11.640
Well, again, it works because they're not really the centre of the action.

1300
01:21:11.699 --> 01:21:13.680
The city and the excellence themselves.

1301
01:21:13.680 --> 01:21:15.180
Exactly. take it all up.

1302
01:21:15.239 --> 01:21:23.159
That does help slightly because every other time we've had the Daleks, it's been, oh, the Daleks are up to something nasty and the doctor stumbles onto it.

1303
01:21:23.220 --> 01:21:32.220
Whereas this story is the doctor has been trying to get somewhere and ends up somewhere and the Daleks stumble upon him.

1304
01:21:32.279 --> 01:21:35.279
You know, so it is turning that on its head slightly.

1305
01:21:35.340 --> 01:21:40.319
I'd like to, um, we'll certainly get back to the Daleks as more to say about them.

1306
01:21:40.380 --> 01:21:45.060
But since we're on episode one, I'd like to talk about the humans whom the doctor meets.

1307
01:21:45.180 --> 01:21:52.439
So we've got this space crew who are looking for a mineral and...

1308
01:21:52.439 --> 01:21:56.340
They're meant to be Marines and they're in Thunderbirds uniforms, blue rompers.

1309
01:21:56.460 --> 01:21:57.359
I know, I know.

1310
01:21:57.479 --> 01:22:01.140
And we're speaking RP, except for the slightly northern one who knows the bad one.

1311
01:22:01.319 --> 01:22:02.760
Scottish.

1312
01:22:02.819 --> 01:22:04.020
Oh, it's very normal.

1313
01:22:04.079 --> 01:22:04.800
So he's very good.

1314
01:22:05.279 --> 01:22:09.479
I love how posh they are and how they all call each other Jill and Peter.

1315
01:22:09.899 --> 01:22:13.739
Yeah, they've just come from one of Margot Ledbetter's gone parts.

1316
01:22:14.939 --> 01:22:18.659
Well, the 1st one we see is played by Terry Walsh.

1317
01:22:18.720 --> 01:22:20.760
Yes, Spaceman Jack.

1318
01:22:20.760 --> 01:22:22.319
Filled with arrows.

1319
01:22:22.319 --> 01:22:26.520
In a scene that was cut out of the Australian terrestrial broadcast in the 80s.

1320
01:22:26.579 --> 01:22:30.239
I don't know about the 70s. my recorded off the telecopy, didn't have that.

1321
01:22:30.300 --> 01:22:32.699
We also didn't have the last 10 minutes of episode four.

1322
01:22:32.760 --> 01:22:34.920
Thanks dad, trying to fit 8 episodes on one tape.

1323
01:22:36.300 --> 01:22:39.840
So the 1st time I saw that scene, it's like, what the hell is this?

1324
01:22:39.960 --> 01:22:41.399
I don't remember it either.

1325
01:22:41.460 --> 01:22:44.039
You could be right because the census was still active in the early 70s.

1326
01:22:44.100 --> 01:22:45.479
Yeah, because in the novelisation.

1327
01:22:45.539 --> 01:22:48.180
It's a very welsh beginning.

1328
01:22:48.239 --> 01:22:50.279
Yeah, yeah, Terry Welsh, that's what the chapter is called.

1329
01:22:50.279 --> 01:22:52.859
So he's Spaceman Jack.

1330
01:22:52.920 --> 01:22:54.239
That's what he's actually called.

1331
01:22:54.300 --> 01:22:59.699
There's Commander Stewart. who's laid up in bed with a head wound.

1332
01:22:59.819 --> 01:23:06.359
There is Railton, the 2nd in command, played by John Abeneary, in a wig. in a wig.

1333
01:23:06.420 --> 01:23:07.500
There is...

1334
01:23:07.500 --> 01:23:08.100
Swampy wig.

1335
01:23:08.220 --> 01:23:15.359
There is Hamilton, the navigator, played by Julian Fox. and he's he's very famous 5 sort of, get out of there.

1336
01:23:15.420 --> 01:23:16.439
Get out of it now.

1337
01:23:16.500 --> 01:23:18.899
There is Galloway.

1338
01:23:18.960 --> 01:23:22.199
The aforementioned Scottish weapons officer.

1339
01:23:22.260 --> 01:23:31.260
And there's Jill Tarrant, the civilian geologist, where everything she says is on this one level, no matter how upset she is.

1340
01:23:31.319 --> 01:23:33.000
That is what I've made earlier.

1341
01:23:33.060 --> 01:23:35.100
She's so bad.

1342
01:23:35.159 --> 01:23:35.880
Is she though?

1343
01:23:35.939 --> 01:23:39.479
Well, at the end of... very fond of her is important.

1344
01:23:39.539 --> 01:23:41.579
You know, you know what?

1345
01:23:41.640 --> 01:23:42.600
She...

1346
01:23:42.600 --> 01:23:44.460
She looks very striking on screen.

1347
01:23:44.460 --> 01:23:48.720
And I'm not, I'm not saying that as reducing her to her looks.

1348
01:23:48.779 --> 01:23:51.239
I mean, she's a bit fantastic for her, though, isn't she?

1349
01:23:51.300 --> 01:23:54.300
It's how gills were cast in these shows back in the day.

1350
01:23:54.359 --> 01:23:55.680
You know, it should be slightly sort of helpless.

1351
01:23:55.739 --> 01:24:00.359
And you know she's going to sprain her ankle as the goodies would say any 2nd noun and ruin it for everybody.

1352
01:24:00.420 --> 01:24:01.859
And you know what?

1353
01:24:01.979 --> 01:24:12.359
I'm sure that John got on quite well with her because we still we still have behind the scenes footage from one of the studio recordings in existence and the bit with the cliffhanger between takes.

1354
01:24:12.479 --> 01:24:15.420
You know how she cuddles up to him as the Daleks Open Fire?

1355
01:24:15.479 --> 01:24:17.640
They're still cuddled up and just quietly.

1356
01:24:17.699 --> 01:24:19.020
I think she had little choice in that matter.

1357
01:24:19.079 --> 01:24:25.739
No, she is actually sort of leaning into him with, you know, I think they got on quite well, is what I'm saying.

1358
01:24:25.800 --> 01:24:34.979
But, you know, even the funny thing is, um, Rod's comments, we haven't had one of these for, um, Joy Harrison is one of the worst actors so far.

1359
01:24:35.039 --> 01:24:38.220
Did she know someone on the production and is this nepotism?

1360
01:24:38.279 --> 01:24:44.699
Now, when I was watching it again for the podcast last week, Rod said, oh, I'll watch it with you.

1361
01:24:44.760 --> 01:24:46.260
And I'm like, we're up to Eccleston.

1362
01:24:46.319 --> 01:24:47.100
Okay, fine.

1363
01:24:47.159 --> 01:24:57.180
And about halfway through episode one, I just laughed at something, she said, I think it was that bit where she says, if we don't get it, 1000000s of women and children and people are going to die.

1364
01:24:57.239 --> 01:24:58.800
And I said, God, she's awful.

1365
01:24:58.859 --> 01:25:00.720
And Rod said, no, no, she's really good.

1366
01:25:00.779 --> 01:25:07.199
And during episode three, she's like, no, no, sorry, she is, she's, I remember her now.

1367
01:25:07.260 --> 01:25:07.680
She terrible.

1368
01:25:08.220 --> 01:25:11.819
Why does that dialect kill itself just because she is scared.

1369
01:25:11.939 --> 01:25:12.720
I know, I know.

1370
01:25:12.779 --> 01:25:14.399
In the original script, it doesn't.

1371
01:25:14.520 --> 01:25:15.899
It has a bit of a panic.

1372
01:25:15.960 --> 01:25:21.180
And then goes off to a report that it has failed and rejoins the others.

1373
01:25:21.239 --> 01:25:26.939
I think there was consideration that another Dalek would then destroy it for failing, which I think is far more in keeping.

1374
01:25:27.000 --> 01:25:29.340
That's what happens in the final...

1375
01:25:29.399 --> 01:25:32.880
Yeah, someone on the floor, I doubt it could have been the director actually just said.

1376
01:25:32.939 --> 01:25:34.319
This is really wild directed.

1377
01:25:34.380 --> 01:25:36.300
I love the external shots.

1378
01:25:36.359 --> 01:25:37.680
Yeah, it's Michael Lee Bryant again.

1379
01:25:37.739 --> 01:25:38.760
Yeah, the stuff...

1380
01:25:38.760 --> 01:25:43.319
Again, like Smoke and Billows and Hessian in the category is perfect.

1381
01:25:43.380 --> 01:25:48.239
And even though the Exxons are just sort of crappy guys with rubber heads and kind of cows.

1382
01:25:48.300 --> 01:25:48.659
Do you think so?

1383
01:25:48.720 --> 01:25:49.739
they look really menacing.

1384
01:25:49.800 --> 01:25:50.399
Wonderful.

1385
01:25:50.460 --> 01:25:55.079
And I get a, you know, they're meant to feel like the silicon. another silicon-based life form.

1386
01:25:55.140 --> 01:25:57.359
We're actually meant to believe that they're rock based.

1387
01:25:57.420 --> 01:26:01.979
The colour of their of their cloaks is exactly the same as the colour of the surrounding ground.

1388
01:26:03.300 --> 01:26:11.460
It's incredibly effective because you do get those shots where they're just on the edge of shot and you don't realise until the end because they move and they start following the doctor or Sarah.

1389
01:26:11.520 --> 01:26:12.659
It's so well done.

1390
01:26:12.720 --> 01:26:16.319
Did you know, did you read in the notes that there were 2 blokes when they were doing the outside shop?

1391
01:26:16.319 --> 01:26:25.140
They were left alone, left behind for their tea break because they had to be got down off this cliff face and they were left up there while everyone went off fatigue because I couldn't see him because they just looked like...

1392
01:26:25.199 --> 01:26:30.840
And there was another 2 who didn't turn up for their shot and then couldn't be found and it took 20 minutes to find them.

1393
01:26:30.899 --> 01:26:33.840
And all that had happened was they'd laid down 20 metres away.

1394
01:26:33.840 --> 01:26:36.239
And people couldn't see them.

1395
01:26:36.300 --> 01:26:38.100
They just might, I think, sang 2 blokes.

1396
01:26:38.880 --> 01:26:40.500
Sneaking off.

1397
01:26:40.500 --> 01:26:43.800
I think it's actually Jennifer French and Dawnsaw.

1398
01:26:44.220 --> 01:26:45.779
I think so.

1399
01:26:45.779 --> 01:26:46.560
What?

1400
01:26:46.619 --> 01:26:47.699
I think it was too.

1401
01:26:47.760 --> 01:26:48.720
We were Silurians.

1402
01:26:48.720 --> 01:26:50.579
I know.

1403
01:26:50.640 --> 01:26:58.920
And we mentioned when we were talking about antecedents, we mentioned, but we haven't mentioned Von Daniken for at least a season because I haven't been here for a year, so we mentioned Chariot of the gods.

1404
01:26:58.979 --> 01:26:59.939
Yes, episode.

1405
01:26:59.939 --> 01:27:01.260
Well, this was very big.

1406
01:27:01.319 --> 01:27:02.159
That was very big.

1407
01:27:02.220 --> 01:27:02.939
Oh, so big running up.

1408
01:27:03.000 --> 01:27:06.899
It actually came out in 68, but was still being talked about load of old nonsense that it was.

1409
01:27:06.960 --> 01:27:10.319
But, you know, the hieroglyphs looking exactly like that Peruvian city.

1410
01:27:10.380 --> 01:27:20.399
Well, we decided we decided that that becomes an influence in the demons, obviously, because, you know, some aspect of human mythology is tottered up to aliens.

1411
01:27:20.460 --> 01:27:24.119
And then the same thing happens again in the time monster.

1412
01:27:24.119 --> 01:27:29.340
And it is something that will happen as late as the Black Aquarium movement, as we've talked about as well.

1413
01:27:29.399 --> 01:27:30.180
Sorry I wasn't here.

1414
01:27:30.239 --> 01:27:34.500
So here it is, you know, it's all vaguely Mesoamerican and stuff like that.

1415
01:27:34.560 --> 01:27:36.119
But you know what it really looks like?

1416
01:27:36.180 --> 01:27:51.239
It's not the Lost Horizon ones, but the she, there were several versions of the film She, including one with Ursula Andrus, She, which I barely knew to hunt down because it is as camp, as a field of udters on milking day.

1417
01:27:51.300 --> 01:27:54.180
It is just oh, well, here we are.

1418
01:27:55.079 --> 01:27:58.920
But this one, I was also Edward Bulmer, Bulmer Litten.

1419
01:27:58.979 --> 01:28:02.819
You know the man who said, beneath the rule of men, entirely great, the pen is mighty and the sword.

1420
01:28:02.880 --> 01:28:10.920
Well, he was another writer haggard kind of writer and he was writing all these, you know, jolly empire goes off and discovers on, you know, Is he the man responsible for it was a dark and stormy night?

1421
01:28:10.979 --> 01:28:11.819
I hope so.

1422
01:28:11.880 --> 01:28:12.060
No.

1423
01:28:12.119 --> 01:28:13.619
I think that was Charles Schultz.

1424
01:28:13.619 --> 01:28:18.539
But the land of the centre of the earth is the stuff he did, which is very much the Solarians.

1425
01:28:18.600 --> 01:28:26.039
But the bloke I was thinking of, the RKO version from the 30s was designed by a bloke called Van Nest Poglasse.

1426
01:28:26.100 --> 01:28:28.859
Now, is that B. Arthur's Drag Knight?

1427
01:28:28.920 --> 01:28:29.880
How good is that?

1428
01:28:30.420 --> 01:28:38.460
But yeah, he did a beautiful white ivory Art Deco city, which looks just like this one and is also very gorgeous.

1429
01:28:38.520 --> 01:28:41.760
No, I love this city and I love, we didn't even know what Jabberite was.

1430
01:28:41.819 --> 01:28:42.960
Did we, Brendan?

1431
01:28:43.079 --> 01:28:46.920
We didn't actually know that you could pour your mum's nail polish remover onto it.

1432
01:28:46.979 --> 01:28:54.060
Well, we found out very quickly onto the packing, your fridge came in and do a wonderful resurrectly, excellent city design.

1433
01:28:54.119 --> 01:28:56.039
Don't try it at home because of the Nox.

1434
01:28:56.100 --> 01:28:56.760
The gas was terrible.

1435
01:28:56.819 --> 01:28:57.479
No, I did it.

1436
01:28:57.539 --> 01:29:02.039
I built one and melted it and yeah, yeah, I had my little...

1437
01:29:02.100 --> 01:29:10.140
It just goes to show that how effective like radio phonic treatment of voices can be because this, in this case, instead of having Dick Mills, We have Michael Lee Bryant.

1438
01:29:10.199 --> 01:29:10.979
Oh really?

1439
01:29:11.039 --> 01:29:19.800
Julian Fox, who plays Hamilton and Joy Harrison are the voices of the Excellon City dying.

1440
01:29:19.859 --> 01:29:21.300
Oh, yeah.

1441
01:29:21.300 --> 01:29:24.300
Yeah, all those screams and those screams are terrifying.

1442
01:29:24.359 --> 01:29:26.220
Well, she just discovered she's never going to work again.

1443
01:29:27.659 --> 01:29:30.420
You know, I really want to like her.

1444
01:29:30.479 --> 01:29:32.159
How can you not, though?

1445
01:29:32.220 --> 01:29:34.140
Yeah, I, in a way, I do.

1446
01:29:34.199 --> 01:29:37.560
I think, you know, I think she's fun and bubbly, and I think she's a girl.

1447
01:29:37.619 --> 01:29:43.979
I think she's just being a girly girl and I wonder if we're all being a bit too post-feminist and criticising her for having sprained ankles constantly.

1448
01:29:44.039 --> 01:29:47.220
No, it's not the sprained ankles because she's written as a very strong character.

1449
01:29:47.279 --> 01:29:51.420
It's just that every line she utters is always in the same tone.

1450
01:29:51.479 --> 01:29:56.579
You know, she's kind, she's either calm or panicked.

1451
01:29:56.640 --> 01:30:00.180
There's very little nuanced to the performance and that's what I don't like about it.

1452
01:30:00.239 --> 01:30:03.779
I've got no problem with her role in the story because I actually think she's getting quite a strong role.

1453
01:30:03.840 --> 01:30:07.739
And when she is prisoner of the Dalek, she doesn't fall to pieces, she's still resourceful.

1454
01:30:07.800 --> 01:30:16.140
My problem is with the performance, and especially because when she gets those scenes opposite Liz, you can just see the massive difference in acting quality.

1455
01:30:16.199 --> 01:30:17.699
Yeah, but also it's different characters.

1456
01:30:17.760 --> 01:30:18.060
Okay.

1457
01:30:18.119 --> 01:30:19.859
I mean, just to provide balance.

1458
01:30:19.920 --> 01:30:22.500
So I never noticed it as a boy and I certainly didn't notice it.

1459
01:30:22.560 --> 01:30:26.399
I've watched this story a couple of times because I just did the per wee season myself a couple of years ago.

1460
01:30:26.460 --> 01:30:28.319
I like her very much.

1461
01:30:28.380 --> 01:30:32.520
The strongest supporting character for me, though, we've only just touched on them, and that's Bilal.

1462
01:30:32.579 --> 01:30:33.779
Love that.

1463
01:30:33.840 --> 01:30:34.739
I love the costume.

1464
01:30:34.800 --> 01:30:35.460
Did you know?

1465
01:30:35.520 --> 01:30:38.699
I don't know how long they spent the time on, but it's in Barry Litz's notes.

1466
01:30:38.760 --> 01:30:43.739
They also thought a continuing companion, at least for one more story, would be Belal.

1467
01:30:43.800 --> 01:30:47.279
Well, since they didn't go with Jeremy Bullock from Time Warrior.

1468
01:30:47.340 --> 01:30:50.579
Well, Todd actually has a question about that in this regard.

1469
01:30:50.640 --> 01:30:51.420
Does he know?

1470
01:30:51.420 --> 01:30:52.680
There's something called...

1471
01:30:52.739 --> 01:30:55.500
It's like he's with us, even when he's spooky, isn't it?

1472
01:30:55.500 --> 01:31:02.520
In a huge hairdressing salon with a huge collar that he's got, and all those plastic pipes everywhere. on that game show unit on gallery gone.

1473
01:31:02.579 --> 01:31:04.260
There's something called a Bellau.

1474
01:31:04.319 --> 01:31:10.140
It's a shy, timid creature, but then gets a lot of plucky courage and becomes a trusted and valued friend.

1475
01:31:10.199 --> 01:31:11.640
Everyone should have one.

1476
01:31:11.760 --> 01:31:20.159
But can Doctor Who ever do a truly alien companion full time in the Tartars, experiencing adventures in the modern day?

1477
01:31:20.220 --> 01:31:21.359
I would have loved it.

1478
01:31:21.420 --> 01:31:22.680
And I was thinking the same thing.

1479
01:31:22.739 --> 01:31:27.899
Belal could have then the next story, we're almost up to that, he would have fitted in perfectly.

1480
01:31:27.960 --> 01:31:29.159
Yes, very true.

1481
01:31:29.220 --> 01:31:31.140
I think that would have been fine and imagine him.

1482
01:31:31.380 --> 01:31:33.060
Oh, come on.

1483
01:31:33.420 --> 01:31:36.479
Please, let's not have an alien companion.

1484
01:31:36.539 --> 01:31:43.020
Like, look, Louise Jamieson, all apologies, although you're not really proper. alien.

1485
01:31:43.079 --> 01:31:43.500
She a person.

1486
01:31:43.560 --> 01:31:45.539
And an apologies to Mary Tan.

1487
01:31:46.319 --> 01:31:48.300
That was a bit racist, wasn't it, racialist?

1488
01:31:48.359 --> 01:31:51.000
And Mary Term and Lala Wood apologies to you as well.

1489
01:31:51.060 --> 01:31:52.920
And Matthew Waterhouse.

1490
01:31:52.979 --> 01:31:54.239
Okay, that's right.

1491
01:31:54.300 --> 01:31:55.199
He was a Marchman.

1492
01:31:55.260 --> 01:31:57.840
And you haven't even mentioned...

1493
01:31:58.079 --> 01:32:01.619
Yeah, but I mean, someone in sort of a stupid costume.

1494
01:32:01.680 --> 01:32:02.340
You know what I mean?

1495
01:32:02.399 --> 01:32:03.720
They're shining front tanks.

1496
01:32:03.720 --> 01:32:05.100
Oh, I think that's what trod.

1497
01:32:05.159 --> 01:32:06.720
I think with Sarah...

1498
01:32:06.840 --> 01:32:08.279
Was Sarah Sutton's costume that bird?

1499
01:32:08.939 --> 01:32:13.859
I think that's what Todd means by someone truly alien.

1500
01:32:14.520 --> 01:32:19.380
I think it would have been beautiful and really interesting because the actor who plays him.

1501
01:32:19.439 --> 01:32:20.340
What's his name, Alan?

1502
01:32:20.399 --> 01:32:21.479
Arnold Yarrow.

1503
01:32:21.539 --> 01:32:24.659
Arnold Yarrows, thank you, is so good again, these lovely little gestures.

1504
01:32:24.779 --> 01:32:25.680
He's like a twig.

1505
01:32:25.739 --> 01:32:27.000
An animated twig.

1506
01:32:27.060 --> 01:32:29.159
Yeah, with opossum eyes.

1507
01:32:29.220 --> 01:32:31.199
Something you go and see at the zoo in the nocturnal house.

1508
01:32:31.199 --> 01:32:32.819
A BBC app.

1509
01:32:32.880 --> 01:32:35.399
Maybe 3 episodes is about...

1510
01:32:35.399 --> 01:32:38.939
I'd love to have seen him in Monster Paladon, and goodness knows we needed him.

1511
01:32:39.060 --> 01:32:41.279
He's really just Wester with no clothes on.

1512
01:32:41.340 --> 01:32:42.720
I mean, Western...

1513
01:32:42.720 --> 01:32:45.359
Western... he sometimes wears clothes.

1514
01:32:45.600 --> 01:32:48.479
Not when he's hugging Lady companions.

1515
01:32:49.319 --> 01:32:53.100
Yeah, what is it with Terry and sort of name?

1516
01:32:53.159 --> 01:32:57.000
Well, maybe maybe Terry was a nudist at home.

1517
01:32:57.060 --> 01:32:57.539
You never know.

1518
01:32:57.600 --> 01:32:59.039
No, maybe he thought that...

1519
01:32:59.039 --> 01:33:03.539
No, he got arrays of wearing clothes were outdated and outmoted.

1520
01:33:03.600 --> 01:33:07.439
Well, his house was a very big, beautiful house, but it was in Wales. would have gone a bit cold.

1521
01:33:07.500 --> 01:33:12.420
I like to think he was knocking around in those... in his dharma in those...

1522
01:33:12.479 --> 01:33:18.479
I mean, another great thing about having Bilal in the plot is how he interacts with Sarah James.

1523
01:33:18.539 --> 01:33:21.060
He's so lovely with Sarah and she's so good with her.

1524
01:33:21.479 --> 01:33:23.220
That whole kind of covering her mouth.

1525
01:33:23.279 --> 01:33:25.319
You look like a big talking twig.

1526
01:33:25.380 --> 01:33:27.060
I'm coping with.

1527
01:33:27.119 --> 01:33:29.579
Yeah, you know, no, he would have been a terrific companion.

1528
01:33:29.640 --> 01:33:32.460
I wish he'd stayed all the way through to survival.

1529
01:33:33.180 --> 01:33:35.880
It's one of the most natural...

1530
01:33:35.880 --> 01:33:39.239
That would have lifted vengeance on Barros.

1531
01:33:39.300 --> 01:33:41.159
It'll actually be our new thing.

1532
01:33:41.220 --> 01:33:44.520
We used to have what would...

1533
01:33:44.579 --> 01:33:46.560
We'll now just have what we'll do.

1534
01:33:46.619 --> 01:33:51.539
In every story, I'm now going to pop Balow in and see how...

1535
01:33:51.600 --> 01:33:53.939
He would have tried to hit the fuck up.

1536
01:33:54.000 --> 01:33:55.619
It merged with the wrong time.

1537
01:33:55.680 --> 01:33:57.300
Come on, Brenton.

1538
01:33:57.300 --> 01:34:01.560
But doctor, you must have the right to destroy the Daleks.

1539
01:34:01.680 --> 01:34:04.979
I'm doing hand gestures, deal with this. beautifully too.

1540
01:34:05.039 --> 01:34:06.659
I'd like to see cosplay.

1541
01:34:07.859 --> 01:34:16.739
Speaking of cosplay, Bonnie Langford is currently doing a convention in the UK and I've asked my UK friends to show her my Bonnie Langford cosplay to see what she thinks.

1542
01:34:16.800 --> 01:34:19.439
Oh, please give me a copy of it and I'll put it on the website.

1543
01:34:19.500 --> 01:34:20.340
I will.

1544
01:34:20.399 --> 01:34:33.300
But what I really love about Sarah J. meeting Balal. is it's one of the most naturalistic reactions we've had from a Doctor Who character, a human Doctor Who character, meeting an alien.

1545
01:34:33.359 --> 01:34:42.239
You know, she's she's scared of him and she is a little bit repulsed by him, but eventually sort of gets to know him and outlives her prejudice.

1546
01:34:42.300 --> 01:34:44.159
And we see it again the next story.

1547
01:34:44.220 --> 01:34:47.399
You know, Sarah is still adjusting to meeting aliens and what have you.

1548
01:34:47.520 --> 01:34:49.560
Joe kind of took aliens in a stride a bit.

1549
01:34:49.619 --> 01:34:51.420
Joe didn't meet that many nice aliens.

1550
01:34:51.479 --> 01:34:52.079
Yeah.

1551
01:34:52.079 --> 01:34:55.439
Whereas Sarah Jane like meets 2 nice aliens in a row.

1552
01:34:55.500 --> 01:34:56.159
Very good.

1553
01:34:56.159 --> 01:34:57.600
We're fiddling with action figures.

1554
01:34:57.600 --> 01:34:58.500
Do this now while.

1555
01:34:58.560 --> 01:35:00.239
Yeah, we're multitasking.

1556
01:35:00.300 --> 01:35:06.960
Richard took my Idris action figure off the shelf and it's figured out her hair comes off and it makes a sort of root and triple high...

1557
01:35:07.020 --> 01:35:10.260
Because actually, I was actually thinking of something...

1558
01:35:10.319 --> 01:35:11.579
Britain hybrid.

1559
01:35:11.640 --> 01:35:13.920
Oh, look, there's so much fun you can have with this podcast, isn't there?

1560
01:35:14.039 --> 01:35:15.539
What do we reckon about this story then, gents?

1561
01:35:17.460 --> 01:35:20.399
When are we going to start talking about Moonbase 3?

1562
01:35:21.119 --> 01:35:22.739
So much better.

1563
01:35:22.800 --> 01:35:24.119
I'm sure you will.

1564
01:35:24.600 --> 01:35:33.180
See, the 1st 2 episodes are rather sweetly, Planet of the Daleks condensed to like a 3rd of its length.

1565
01:35:33.239 --> 01:35:34.800
And that's actually quite good. you know what I mean?

1566
01:35:34.859 --> 01:35:38.399
Like if we don't have all the interminable running around that we got in Planet of the Daleks.

1567
01:35:38.460 --> 01:35:42.300
And then we throw that away. running around Paris.

1568
01:35:42.359 --> 01:35:48.899
Then we throw that away in order to do the visit to the Excelon city.

1569
01:35:48.960 --> 01:35:50.640
And that is deplorably bad.

1570
01:35:50.699 --> 01:35:58.920
It's per twee, being impressed by touch screens, it's per twee, you know, standing in front of front axial projection things.

1571
01:35:58.979 --> 01:36:01.020
He solves a very simple maze.

1572
01:36:01.079 --> 01:36:09.000
He gets terrified to the point of having a personal cliffhanger when he comes across like a bath mat on the floor.

1573
01:36:09.060 --> 01:36:13.319
You know, like, is that the most spectacular moment in all of Doctor Who?

1574
01:36:13.380 --> 01:36:15.779
That a line, oh, red light floor?

1575
01:36:16.319 --> 01:36:16.920
Well, you know why?

1576
01:36:16.979 --> 01:36:21.600
They lost, they were overrunning, and the actual...

1577
01:36:21.659 --> 01:36:22.920
So 3 underruns?

1578
01:36:22.979 --> 01:36:24.659
Yeah, it was going to be an antibody.

1579
01:36:24.720 --> 01:36:27.359
It was going to be one of the excellent antibodies.

1580
01:36:27.779 --> 01:36:31.140
I thought it was going to be the Dalek sneaking up behind them with the door opening.

1581
01:36:31.199 --> 01:36:31.739
But I could be wrong.

1582
01:36:31.800 --> 01:36:32.699
I don't even know.

1583
01:36:33.840 --> 01:36:38.520
Like, how are the Daleks tracing their way through that maze on the wall anyway when they've only got some...

1584
01:36:38.520 --> 01:36:38.939
They shoot it.

1585
01:36:39.000 --> 01:36:39.720
They shoot it.

1586
01:36:39.779 --> 01:36:40.920
They shoot it through the water.

1587
01:36:40.979 --> 01:36:42.600
I mean, it's just crummy.

1588
01:36:43.380 --> 01:36:43.859
Oh, please.

1589
01:36:43.859 --> 01:36:46.859
What you don't see, you don't have to worry about. terrific.

1590
01:36:46.920 --> 01:36:49.020
No, I just mean this bit of the story.

1591
01:36:49.079 --> 01:36:50.460
I love this bit of the story.

1592
01:36:50.579 --> 01:36:51.479
Yeah, me too.

1593
01:36:51.539 --> 01:36:52.140
I love this story.

1594
01:36:52.199 --> 01:36:56.100
I think it could have something to do with the fact that I didn't have the ending of it as a boy.

1595
01:36:56.159 --> 01:36:57.960
So it had this mythical status in my head.

1596
01:36:58.020 --> 01:37:02.220
But as an adult, from a purely aesthetic point of view. got my favourite pertly suit.

1597
01:37:02.340 --> 01:37:06.000
You know, the suit with the red piping and the blue shirt and what.

1598
01:37:06.060 --> 01:37:13.439
It has that wonderful moment that sets the tone for the whole story at the beginning when the doctor and Sarah step outside and Sarah's like, oh, it's a bit cold.

1599
01:37:13.500 --> 01:37:16.739
I'll go back and get a coat And she says to the doctor, don't wander off.

1600
01:37:16.800 --> 01:37:19.439
And he immediately goes, no, of course I won't.

1601
01:37:19.500 --> 01:37:23.819
Look straight at the camera, a huge grin on his face and wanders off. bugger.

1602
01:37:24.659 --> 01:37:28.680
The story's so good, we get it back exactly in Pyramid of Mars.

1603
01:37:28.739 --> 01:37:31.380
Yeah, and again in...

1604
01:37:31.439 --> 01:37:32.340
Is it 91?

1605
01:37:32.399 --> 01:37:33.420
Anyway, we see.

1606
01:37:33.479 --> 01:37:34.319
Yeah, yeah.

1607
01:37:34.380 --> 01:37:39.359
She actually lampshades that they're redoing the excellent thing because she mentions the city of Diego.

1608
01:37:39.420 --> 01:37:43.560
Even though she didn't see that, she didn't solve any of the puzzles.

1609
01:37:43.619 --> 01:37:46.739
She didn't solve any of the puzzles, but she saw the hieroglyphs on the outside wall.

1610
01:37:46.800 --> 01:37:47.520
Yeah, okay.

1611
01:37:47.579 --> 01:37:54.000
It's got that incredibly tense point of view sequence with Sarah beating up the excellent.

1612
01:37:54.060 --> 01:37:58.439
When the music stops and you're just left with the noises of exertion, it's quite...

1613
01:37:58.500 --> 01:38:01.800
Is this the thing with the, with the, the, the Bessie hand starter?

1614
01:38:01.859 --> 01:38:03.000
Yeah, the Bessie hand star.

1615
01:38:03.119 --> 01:38:04.680
She doesn't have a lot of lines in this either, does she?

1616
01:38:05.100 --> 01:38:06.420
Bessie doesn't say very much at all.

1617
01:38:07.319 --> 01:38:09.119
And you know what?

1618
01:38:09.180 --> 01:38:13.199
I think that sort of bully atmosphere is maintained throughout the story.

1619
01:38:13.260 --> 01:38:15.300
I love that's it.

1620
01:38:15.359 --> 01:38:16.199
That's why the story is.

1621
01:38:16.500 --> 01:38:19.619
I love the subterranean stuff and the doctor and Sarah wander around.

1622
01:38:19.739 --> 01:38:20.100
And you know what?

1623
01:38:20.159 --> 01:38:26.039
Yes, it's padding, but you get such great things as like they hear the roar again and the doctor says, oh, I think that's just the wind.

1624
01:38:26.100 --> 01:38:26.699
Who are you kidding?

1625
01:38:26.760 --> 01:38:27.720
Myself, Gina.

1626
01:38:28.079 --> 01:38:38.760
I think that's one because, again, the doctor would never have admitted that to Joe, that he was kidding himself because that would have scared Joe, but he knows it won't scare Sarah.

1627
01:38:38.819 --> 01:38:49.079
Yeah, Kurt Wee is, despite the fact that he's getting a bit bored and he does decide in this story to leave, he is still caring about the character and presenting a different side to the character.

1628
01:38:49.140 --> 01:38:51.119
It is in this story that he has decided.

1629
01:38:51.180 --> 01:38:57.300
Yes, I reckon it's the same where he's quoting Hamlet to the flex hose off the vacuum cleaner.

1630
01:38:57.359 --> 01:38:58.920
With a sting pop of his.

1631
01:38:58.979 --> 01:39:00.119
Yeah, to do that.

1632
01:39:00.180 --> 01:39:14.340
Well, Xander reckons it's when he's just about through the maze on the wall of that 1st thing that just sort of appallingly easy, um, maze where he's doing his touchscreen way through it.

1633
01:39:14.399 --> 01:39:17.579
I think that's... with the tinting comic skeletons everywhere.

1634
01:39:17.699 --> 01:39:24.000
I would say a big part of why he decided to leave was actually the change in production schedule for this story.

1635
01:39:24.060 --> 01:39:24.600
Do you know about this?

1636
01:39:24.659 --> 01:39:29.220
No, if it was the 1st one, there'd be shot set for set, like a proper film.

1637
01:39:29.279 --> 01:39:30.359
Like a proper, right?

1638
01:39:30.359 --> 01:39:33.060
Like a, but he wanted that. talked about that originally.

1639
01:39:33.119 --> 01:39:34.079
He did want that.

1640
01:39:34.140 --> 01:39:36.899
But I also believe that rehearsal period was truncated.

1641
01:39:36.960 --> 01:39:42.779
So rather than having enough time to get the story clear in his head, he was having to jump around.

1642
01:39:42.779 --> 01:39:44.939
And we know he liked to be line perfect.

1643
01:39:45.000 --> 01:39:47.039
Or was he listening up by this stage?

1644
01:39:47.159 --> 01:39:52.439
Because we know how difficult he was, apparently, with Paddy. with Pat Troughton on 3 Delches.

1645
01:39:52.500 --> 01:39:56.399
Pat would always, you know, in inferences lines and Purley was winning this.

1646
01:39:56.460 --> 01:39:57.359
That's not scripted.

1647
01:39:57.479 --> 01:39:59.640
But again, it was just a lack of confidence perhaps.

1648
01:39:59.699 --> 01:40:01.979
He did like to be line perfect.

1649
01:40:02.039 --> 01:40:09.899
I mean, I think something that might have helped with filming it like this was there was time then to say, oh, no, I'm sorry, I messed up that line.

1650
01:40:09.960 --> 01:40:10.439
I go back.

1651
01:40:10.500 --> 01:40:15.539
And the DVD has about half an hour behind the scenes footage.

1652
01:40:15.600 --> 01:40:20.760
And there are several moments where Pertby's halfway through a line and just says, look, no, I'm sorry, Michael, that was terrible.

1653
01:40:20.819 --> 01:40:21.479
I'll give you another one.

1654
01:40:21.539 --> 01:40:23.880
Oh, I can't wait to spend half an hour watching those ones.

1655
01:40:23.939 --> 01:40:24.899
That would be terrific.

1656
01:40:24.960 --> 01:40:26.340
It's really crispiest.

1657
01:40:26.399 --> 01:40:31.439
You get to see, you get to see him working with Liz.

1658
01:40:31.500 --> 01:40:32.880
No, you don't get to see him square.

1659
01:40:32.939 --> 01:40:34.319
Dumb botherers.

1660
01:40:35.699 --> 01:40:40.319
We get that wonderfully touching scene in episode three.

1661
01:40:40.319 --> 01:40:41.460
With him and Joy, yeah.

1662
01:40:41.520 --> 01:40:45.479
Well, with him and... with... episode two.

1663
01:40:45.539 --> 01:40:57.720
With him and Liz, where Sarah's shown into the city and then he turns around and says, no, you're not coming in and she and she does the whole thing of, I can still come in and he's like, no, no, no, I need you to help the humans.

1664
01:40:57.779 --> 01:40:58.800
They need your help.

1665
01:40:58.859 --> 01:41:02.039
And then he and then she's like, oh, okay, well, you're giving me something important to do.

1666
01:41:02.159 --> 01:41:03.119
You know, just getting rid of me.

1667
01:41:03.180 --> 01:41:09.000
And he then turns, but then turns back and says, and if I don't come back, you must go with that.

1668
01:41:09.060 --> 01:41:16.500
I just reached out. absolutely miserable life in a plague ridden, cold, barren picture. having your perennium every day.

1669
01:41:16.560 --> 01:41:18.000
Excuse me.

1670
01:41:18.659 --> 01:41:23.039
Yeah, apparently that correct pronunciation.

1671
01:41:23.100 --> 01:41:28.739
Or is that Bob Holmes having a bit of sport?

1672
01:41:28.739 --> 01:41:29.340
I gather it.

1673
01:41:29.399 --> 01:41:33.180
I think it was in the original script and Vorp Holmes just pointed out until it was too late.

1674
01:41:33.239 --> 01:41:36.000
By this point, um, Terrence Sticks...

1675
01:41:36.000 --> 01:41:38.880
For the listener at home, Terrence Sticks was...

1676
01:41:38.939 --> 01:41:45.960
Terrence Stix was eyeballs deep in editing in rewriting the monster of Paladin.

1677
01:41:46.020 --> 01:41:47.220
Oh, yes, yes, he was.

1678
01:41:47.340 --> 01:41:49.680
Invasion of the dinosaurs, and this were essentially...

1679
01:41:49.680 --> 01:41:56.699
Well, let's find out. essentially invasion of the dinosaurs and Death to the Daleks were entirely scripted by Robert Holmes.

1680
01:41:56.760 --> 01:41:57.119
Yeah.

1681
01:41:57.119 --> 01:41:57.659
Yeah.

1682
01:41:57.659 --> 01:41:59.939
It's darker, actually.

1683
01:42:00.000 --> 01:42:01.140
Yeah, it's darker.

1684
01:42:01.199 --> 01:42:02.460
They are a bit better.

1685
01:42:02.520 --> 01:42:05.399
They're a bit the wit is sharper, I think.

1686
01:42:05.460 --> 01:42:06.239
Yeah.

1687
01:42:06.239 --> 01:42:07.619
I think I remember.

1688
01:42:07.619 --> 01:42:09.539
There's so much in this story for me to love.

1689
01:42:09.600 --> 01:42:10.739
There's so much, isn't there?

1690
01:42:10.800 --> 01:42:13.079
Can we talk about Galloway quickly?

1691
01:42:13.140 --> 01:42:13.619
Yes.

1692
01:42:13.680 --> 01:42:14.159
Oh, yeah.

1693
01:42:14.220 --> 01:42:25.199
So, because Ferry Nation always has this sort of very gun morality and people are very, you know, ends justify the means and things and all the way back in Dalek Invasion of Earth.

1694
01:42:25.260 --> 01:42:30.119
You had sort of Jenny and she was very tough and hard and practical and pragmatic.

1695
01:42:30.239 --> 01:42:41.819
And he have Galloway, and Galloway is prepared to, you know, let the Daleks kill off Bel Isle and Bel Isle's people and kill the doctor and Sarah and all of that sort of thing.

1696
01:42:41.880 --> 01:42:45.600
Is that when he says the only alternative to living is dying?

1697
01:42:45.720 --> 01:42:47.880
Is that when he...

1698
01:42:47.880 --> 01:42:48.779
Is that the doctor says that?

1699
01:42:48.779 --> 01:42:51.060
Oh, God, it's awful.

1700
01:42:51.119 --> 01:42:52.619
In a wet and claggy quarry.

1701
01:42:52.680 --> 01:42:55.020
I think that's probably that's where he says, this is it.

1702
01:42:55.920 --> 01:42:59.640
The only alternative to living is an exposition coma.

1703
01:43:00.479 --> 01:43:02.880
One knees up, mother brown.

1704
01:43:02.939 --> 01:43:03.600
One knee anyway.

1705
01:43:03.659 --> 01:43:09.060
So that sort of morality thing that you get and you get it in Blake 7 and things.

1706
01:43:09.119 --> 01:43:11.220
And here it's kind of vindicated.

1707
01:43:11.279 --> 01:43:12.000
Do you know what I mean?

1708
01:43:12.060 --> 01:43:23.279
Like Galloway, Galloway is single-mindedly pursuing the whole idea of making sure the mission succeeds and he's prepared to sacrifice Bellow on the doctor and Sarah and all of these people.

1709
01:43:23.340 --> 01:43:26.939
But eventually it turns out that he's prepared to sacrifice himself as well.

1710
01:43:27.000 --> 01:43:27.600
Yeah.

1711
01:43:27.600 --> 01:43:35.699
And it is a surprise to everyone to Peter and Jill and all those lovely people that Galloway is going to blow himself up.

1712
01:43:35.760 --> 01:43:38.039
I don't realise it's going to happen until it actually does.

1713
01:43:38.100 --> 01:43:45.960
I remember being horribly, horribly shocked position when the commander says to Galloway, you're not fit to lead.

1714
01:43:46.020 --> 01:43:48.000
John, is that's John Ebonett?

1715
01:43:48.060 --> 01:43:52.140
No, John Ebonieri's just sort of suddenly killed by an arrow after 15 lives, yeah.

1716
01:43:52.199 --> 01:43:53.220
It's really surprising.

1717
01:43:53.880 --> 01:43:58.680
Yeah, it's kind of like about 10 years ago. 15 years ago there. was this film called Deep Blue Sea, horror film.

1718
01:43:58.739 --> 01:44:00.899
And Samuel L. Jackson's in that.

1719
01:44:00.960 --> 01:44:15.119
And Samuel L. Jackson got the script for it and turns sort of to page 50 of 100 or whatever and is suddenly eaten by a shark and he called the producer outraged and he said, no, I have worked too hard to be given a role where I'm killed off.

1720
01:44:15.180 --> 01:44:16.260
I'm Samuel Ljack.

1721
01:44:16.319 --> 01:44:17.939
Like the 1st 10 films I did.

1722
01:44:18.000 --> 01:44:19.319
I'm dead before page 10.

1723
01:44:19.560 --> 01:44:21.239
No, I built up my career.

1724
01:44:21.300 --> 01:44:21.899
I'm not doing that.

1725
01:44:21.960 --> 01:44:22.920
And the producer said exactly.

1726
01:44:22.979 --> 01:44:24.840
No one expects you to die.

1727
01:44:24.899 --> 01:44:31.260
I think that's the same thing with John Abeneri. such a familiar face that we think, 0 yeah, John Abenira. hes going to be the hero. he's got narrow and he's back and he's dead.

1728
01:44:31.319 --> 01:44:33.180
You know, it's genuinely shocking.

1729
01:44:33.239 --> 01:44:39.720
But it's when Commander Stewart tells Galloway he's not fit to lead because he hears Galloway being sort of terribly ruthless and pragmatic and stuff.

1730
01:44:39.840 --> 01:44:43.380
And Galloway says, oh, I'm sorry, Captain, I couldn't hear you.

1731
01:44:43.439 --> 01:44:44.100
Yes.

1732
01:44:44.100 --> 01:44:45.779
And just goes off and takes command.

1733
01:44:45.840 --> 01:44:49.260
I remember thinking that was terribly, terribly immoral when I was a kid.

1734
01:44:49.319 --> 01:44:59.640
But that kind of hardheaded, horrible gum kind of morality is a thing that Terry Nation seems to advocate for over and over again.

1735
01:44:59.699 --> 01:45:05.340
Interestingly, the people whom Galloway didn't care, lived or died, the doctor, Sarah, and Balal.

1736
01:45:05.399 --> 01:45:12.359
If they had died, Galloway would never have got off the planet and the like the mission would never have succeeded.

1737
01:45:12.420 --> 01:45:16.859
Well, in fact, Sarah saves the mission by swapping the perineum with the sand.

1738
01:45:16.920 --> 01:45:17.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1739
01:45:17.699 --> 01:45:21.600
The doctor sends her off, as you said, to save the day and she does that.

1740
01:45:21.720 --> 01:45:23.520
Because you don't want to get sand in your perineum.

1741
01:45:23.579 --> 01:45:25.619
No, very, very uncomfortable.

1742
01:45:25.680 --> 01:45:26.220
Yeah.

1743
01:45:26.279 --> 01:45:28.619
A couple of loose ends.

1744
01:45:28.680 --> 01:45:37.979
First of all, the Daleks threatened to fire a plague nestle at the planet and nobody seems to put 2 and 2 together that there's plague affecting the outer worlds. could have been caused by plague missiles.

1745
01:45:38.640 --> 01:45:40.560
I love playing.

1746
01:45:40.619 --> 01:45:41.340
They do.

1747
01:45:41.520 --> 01:45:43.380
Typhoid Mary.

1748
01:45:43.680 --> 01:45:48.779
Also, not only is every Dalek voice in this story done by Michael Wisher.

1749
01:45:48.840 --> 01:45:50.159
He does a good job.

1750
01:45:50.220 --> 01:45:51.960
I think he's better than the Skelton.

1751
01:45:52.020 --> 01:45:57.119
I like the way he Well, yeah, he is, but no one's as good as you said it before, is David Gray and Peter Hawker.

1752
01:45:57.180 --> 01:45:59.640
I like the way that he stretches out certain vale sounds.

1753
01:45:59.760 --> 01:46:00.840
Yeah, so you get that.

1754
01:46:00.899 --> 01:46:03.659
Nick Briggs does that, does that all the time now.

1755
01:46:03.720 --> 01:46:07.260
And isn't it great that they finally got the settings right on the ring modulator?

1756
01:46:07.319 --> 01:46:09.720
Yeah, yeah, they sound like modern dialects.

1757
01:46:09.779 --> 01:46:12.239
Except for the fact that Michael Wisher isn't using a ring modulator.

1758
01:46:12.300 --> 01:46:12.720
Really?

1759
01:46:12.779 --> 01:46:13.739
That's just Michael Wisher.

1760
01:46:13.800 --> 01:46:14.340
Are you kidding?

1761
01:46:14.399 --> 01:46:15.600
That's just Michael Wisher.

1762
01:46:15.659 --> 01:46:22.380
He amazed Elizabeth Sladen because 1st of all, Elizabeth Sladen did the whole Catherine Tate thing of going, what, there's people inside these days.

1763
01:46:22.439 --> 01:46:23.220
She did not.

1764
01:46:23.279 --> 01:46:25.500
Apparently she thought they were about control.

1765
01:46:25.560 --> 01:46:31.319
But then she saw Michael Wisher with his microphone just leading directly off and she said, what does that microphone connect to?

1766
01:46:31.380 --> 01:46:32.460
Oh, it doesn't connect to anything.

1767
01:46:32.520 --> 01:46:33.300
I can just do this.

1768
01:46:33.840 --> 01:46:36.479
You know, he's really that talented.

1769
01:46:36.600 --> 01:46:38.760
I like garlic, yeah, it's really good.

1770
01:46:38.819 --> 01:46:39.960
I love garlic.

1771
01:46:40.020 --> 01:46:41.340
We have had darlic can before.

1772
01:46:41.460 --> 01:46:42.720
We had it in power of the Daleks.

1773
01:46:42.779 --> 01:46:47.760
We saw the Dalek looking at Patrick Trout, but here they look down that long shiny tube.

1774
01:46:47.760 --> 01:46:48.600
Alfoil tube.

1775
01:46:48.659 --> 01:46:51.960
Yeah, it makes them seem more trapped in a machine.

1776
01:46:52.020 --> 01:46:52.560
Exactly.

1777
01:46:52.680 --> 01:46:53.279
Yeah, yeah.

1778
01:46:53.340 --> 01:46:55.380
Because they've got a very tiny field.

1779
01:46:55.439 --> 01:46:57.960
It's real claustrophobic, is the point of view, isn't it?

1780
01:46:58.020 --> 01:46:59.460
I really liked it as a kid.

1781
01:46:59.520 --> 01:47:03.239
And also that you get the distortion in the field, which is kind of like the Bernard Lodge opening titles.

1782
01:47:03.300 --> 01:47:04.979
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, echoed that.

1783
01:47:05.039 --> 01:47:07.020
You've got the rubbery excellence...

1784
01:47:07.079 --> 01:47:08.760
I think it would be terrifying being a Dalek.

1785
01:47:08.819 --> 01:47:09.899
Pay's good though.

1786
01:47:10.140 --> 01:47:12.300
Holidays are shit.

1787
01:47:24.359 --> 01:47:29.520
Though with our power restored, Unfortunately, that's all the time we have for this episode.

1788
01:47:31.260 --> 01:47:43.619
However, special treat for you all, next week, Nathan and I will be guest starring on the Trust Your Doctor podcast, where we will be discussing the Mark Gatis, 3rd doctor novel Last of the Gadarene.

1789
01:47:43.680 --> 01:47:49.800
So keep an eye out for that on the Trust Your Doctor podcast on decorativevegetable.com.

1790
01:47:49.859 --> 01:47:56.819
We'll be back in 2 weeks discussing John Purby's last 2 stories, The Monster of Paladin.

1791
01:47:56.880 --> 01:47:57.720
Hooray.

1792
01:47:57.779 --> 01:47:59.880
And Planet of the Spiders.

1793
01:48:00.300 --> 01:48:04.920
In the interim, however, my body aches, what?

1794
01:48:06.180 --> 01:48:12.119
And next episode, we will also have a Berry special announcement.

1795
01:48:12.180 --> 01:48:14.819
So make sure you come back. somebody's pregnant.

1796
01:48:14.880 --> 01:48:18.420
Then they'll have to leave the show. just putting on a little.

1797
01:48:18.720 --> 01:48:21.060
Have another bit of cake, love.

1798
01:48:21.119 --> 01:48:24.899
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1799
01:48:25.020 --> 01:48:26.760
Cheers for your forebearance.

1800
01:48:30.239 --> 01:48:36.060
You've been listening to Flatly and Charity with Nathan Buttonney, Brain Girls, and Richard Stone.

1801
01:48:36.119 --> 01:48:40.260
This episode, Sand and Your Brilliant, is recorded on Sunday, 10th of May.

1802
01:48:40.319 --> 01:48:44.220
The next episode will be released on Sunday the 31st.

1803
01:48:44.279 --> 01:48:50.640
This episode is dedicated to the memory of Nathan's dog, Jackie, who sadly passed away on the 4th of May, 2015.

1804
01:48:55.140 --> 01:48:57.239
Let's pour some water.

1805
01:48:57.300 --> 01:48:58.739
What?

1806
01:48:58.739 --> 01:49:01.380
I'll say bottle of beer at the same time while you do that.

1807
01:49:01.439 --> 01:49:03.960
Got like a... girl.

1808
01:49:04.020 --> 01:49:05.340
Oh, girl.

1809
01:49:05.399 --> 01:49:07.260
Bottle of girl.