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NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 14:23:30

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Hello and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor

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Who podcast populated entirely by narrow hipped vixens and long

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shanked rascals with mighty noses.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Elizabeth Slyn's Thorax for this episode.

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And that can mean only one thing.

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We are discussing season 11 of Doctor Who.

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The final season of John Pertwey's Doctor, but the 1st season of

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Dame Saint Elizabeth Slayton.

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Yes.

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DSSL.

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What an E in, this is an E in this song.

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O-B-E. So without any further ado, I think we shall head, yea, and

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verily, to the Middle Ages for the time warrior.

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Hey, we're here, bunk.

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That was the sound of a special effect by Alan Bromley.

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Did you miss it?

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Because you don't need special effects.

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You can really just flash a light on and off outside a cardboard

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window and that'll do.

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Is this everybody's favourite all time story, possibly?

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It's my favourite of the season, I think.

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I think Carnival of Monsters is a better homes per 2 story, but

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this is pretty good and for similar reasons, I think.

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I think we should start at the very beginning being the very best

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place to start.

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Nathan, you I believe you were just saying that this season holds

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your very 1st memorable moment of watching who.

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This is my 1st, all the boys at school were saying, oh, you know

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getting frightened of Doctor Who, and, you know, Doctor Who's

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terribly frightened.

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I said, it's not.

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There's nothing frightening and I wanted to be frightened.

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And then at the end of episode one of Time Warrior.

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There's the reveal.

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Kevin Lindsay shows this big ugly Australian bonce. you know, in a

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big brown rubber condom, and it's, um, with the greatest joke of

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civilisation that the helmet perfectly fits the shape of the

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head.

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That was like the real design.

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And then he does that thing with his tongue and you realise it's

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new Doctor Who, and it will never be the same again.

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And it was frightening. the only moment I've ever been afraid of

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this story.

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And I saw links that they put at my bed that night in 1975.

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Yes, I had Kevin Lindsay the front of my bed.

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It's my favourite title sequence in the history of everything.

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I think me too.

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Really?

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It's just, have we talked about the occult effect and stimulus of

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that was going around at the time in popular music and popular

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film in England.

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They call it Black Aquarius.

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It now has the Black Aquarian movement.

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Mark Gatis has blogged about it and been interviewed about this

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period in British folklore, if you like, for the end of the 60s

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with the time of light aquarian.

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They even mention, when they talk about this era, the demons, and

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that that was picking up on this really satanic movement in, I

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guess, pop culture.

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I mean, it all dribbles down to you get Hammer horror films.

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You get a lot of Carolyn Monroe.

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But the Doctor Who title sequence itself under the pertly era, the

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early, the 1st 4 seasons, is very much picking up on that.

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There was the right of weight tarot where everybody, every party

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you went to, someone pulled out a deck of the right of weight

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tarot that everybody's seen.

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So that kind of neo-Arthurian thing, that it goes back to Alistair

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Crowley and his golden dawn.

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Alistair Crowley's face was actually used for the character of

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Blowfeld.

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His appearance is based on that.

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So in the 67 film, you only live twice.

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Donald Pleasant's appearance is based very much on Alistair

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Crowley's face.

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Without that.

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We didn't have a beard as such, but he had, nor did he have a cat

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but just that very round face and no earlobes that Blowfeld is

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famous about.

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But Crowley was a famous mountaineer, just like Brian Blessed.

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Lots of thing to do with Brian Blessard.

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And, and, you know, and the whole cult of magic, but they were

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dark satanic rituals going on at, um, and the, several commons and

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and heaths around England, people were reporting odd goings on.

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Carolyn Monroe talked about doing a shoot of a film where they

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were conducting a satanic rite and suddenly all the props, curtains

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started moving, but there was no air in the studio.

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Mark Gaters loves telling that story.

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That's actually been picked up on by a big Finnish play as well by

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John Dorney called Special Features.

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It's part of their 4 stories in single episodes, releases that

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they do from time to time, and this is Peter Davidson.

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This is the 5th doctor pretty much giving a hammer horror

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commentary.

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And it's talking about all these spooky things that happen.

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And being a Doctor Who story, it's all down to an alien influence

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but it very cleverly evokes that whole Hammer horror period.

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It reminds me a few weeks ago, a very good friend of the podcast

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John Edwards Davies, shared on our page, a very rare interview

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with Peter Cushing. in which Peter talks about his work on Hammer

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and offers the very interesting perspective that Frankenstein

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doesn't believe that he's evil.

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Frankenstein is trying to save lives.

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Through his experiments, you know, and all these pesky villages

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keep turning up with pitchforks.

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So it kind of...

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Morris dancing about...

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Morris dancing about the place.

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I mean, Morris was very popular.

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He was, wasn't he?

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We're actually in season 11 and we've kind of moved on, I guess

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from all of that, but we've still got a taste of it in what's left

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what's left of that cult in British culture, if you like, that's

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kind of disappearing by 74, 75 when everyone's having to face the

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darker realities of economic crisis and on the end of a folk era.

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But the title sequence still has a taste of that.

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This one, of course, this season now, I kind of feel like it's the

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greatest hits of Pertwe, isn't it?

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And if we're jumping further ahead.

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But for all of that, this is the 1st time time meddler doesn't

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count.

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This is the 1st time we actually have how we now see pretty much

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once a season in Doctor Who, we got an historic story with a

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monster.

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Do you know, I was actually thinking that as well.

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So is this the birth of, we call them the pseudo-historicals now.

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But do you think abominable snowmen is pseudo-historical?

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Because they're robo wants to try. about 30, 40, 40 years before

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the present day.

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I think this is the 1st proper one.

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Do you know what I mean?

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It's the one that's held up as being, you know, where the writers

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go to when you want to do it.

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Because it was surprisingly more successful, maybe not so much in

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the ratings where I think it was pretty much the same as

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everything else.

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They started too early.

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Remember they started in December rather than in January.

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So a lot of the audience members didn't actually know that Doctor

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Who was on for some reason.

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So it only picked up. a week and a half before Christmas on the

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15th of December.

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Yeah.

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And Barry Letts was, you know, a lot of this season, you're

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getting terrific writers coming in, you know, the all the old

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stalwarts because Barry and Terry going off and doing their

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spectacular new show called Moonbase 3 Don't we all remember

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that?

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Well?

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Golly.

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They really, they really were.

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They really were trying, weren't they?

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Well, I can't wait till we get to invasion of the dinosaurs and we

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can talk more about Mendes 3 and just whatever happened to that

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one.

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But yeah, this is a fave story. apparently. all I can, all I can

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think of is just, you know, so much of it that's in the glaring

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strobe lighting of history where, okay, we've got a new

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companion.

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The utterly adorable Elizabeth Sladden, who apparently, well

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according to the production team, oh, it's time we had a character

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who, you know, was interested in women's libs.

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So didn't you have that actually in 1970?

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Oh yeah, but no, this one, this time, you know, it will be, she'll

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be really, really strongly a woman's liver.

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And we'll make sure by making every single character in this story

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utterly sexist in their remarks, up to and including than a deer

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of Pertweese comments, you know, when they 1st meet.

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Oh, it is just, it's pretty appalling.

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I mean, even Professor Rubish. my favourite line actually from

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Professor Ruby, she'll say the show has never done before or

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since.

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Remember when he looks at pertly and says, I should have thought

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he was a bit old for that sort of thing by now.

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Yes, yes.

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I thought I thought that was wonderful.

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I mean, I think this is the 1st time that someone has mistaken the

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doctor companion relationship for a romantic or sexual one.

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Yeah, aside from the viewers, obviously going, oh, Billy just

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wants to cuddle up with Barbara.

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Yeah, well, you know, didn't we all?

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Yeah, I think I think it's they's kind of throw it for us as the

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audience as well.

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To, um, just wonder where this new companion fits in and how she's

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going to fit.

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Do you know the origins of Sarah?

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There was going to be a girl companion plus another companion

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called Smith who would be allied to unit on a kind of pro rata

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sort of basis, just floating about and being a spy on the ground

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and filtering stories to them.

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So somehow involved in the modern press, you know, new media.

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And if odd goings on were happening, a bit department S, really

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that there would be, or, you know, so she was a girly Jason King

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if you like, and she was a writer who was a journalist who was

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also going to be, you know, able to tell them if odd things were

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happening. outside their usual means of investigation.

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The way that Mickey Smith calls, um, in school reunion calls the

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doctor and Rosebank to investigate Strange.

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No, it's funny you say that because, yes, someone else has picked

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up on that as well on one of the blogs.

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I don't think it was at the Sand if I...

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We haven't mentioned Santa Fe at this broadcast, have we?

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And what he, do you know what, Sandy?

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will.

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Take a drink, dear, listen.

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Take a drink, dear, listen.

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Well, it's interesting.

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I mean, does everyone know the story of the Time Warrior?

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Do you think the listener knows them?

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I think it is worth...

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I think it is worth talking about because they hadn't been back in

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time. like there's a bit in time, Monster, but essentially we

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haven't travelled back in time. doesn't really count. does it?

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No.

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Holmes was given the job of writing something mediaeval by

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Terrence Dix, the script editor.

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And as usual, if you give home something to do that he doesn't

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want to do, he will, he'll do it for you in a way that you don't

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really want.

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And so, and so he actually actively subverts and makes fun of the

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whole mediaeval setting.

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So the mediaeval setting is as thin as humanly possible.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Like it's got King Richard's off at the Crusades, but that's

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really basically it.

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It's 2 castles in an isolated forest with nothing, no other world

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building of any sort of kind.

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And then when Sarah turns up.

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She actually massively undermines the whole thing.

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Exactly.

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He points it all out, yeah.

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She says, you know, is it a themed restaurant?

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Do you know what I mean?

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film set.

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Is it a, and then there's a fantastic moment where she accuses

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Iron Gronen Blood Axe, more of him later.

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I think because they're the loveliest romantic couple should ever

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appear in Doctor Who up to this point.

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She accuses them of overdoing the sordid realism.

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And Holmes has got to be writing that line aware of the fact that

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it's just going to be a studio with a bit of straw on the floor

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and sort of painted walls and there's going to be no sordid

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realism sort of anywhere near it.

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You know, he deliberately subverts it.

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And then he will take his revenge on Terrence by making him write

247
00:11:38.399 --> 00:11:40.139
a lighthouse story in a couple of years time.

248
00:11:40.440 --> 00:11:43.860
What's also amazing about that whole scene with Sarah saying

249
00:11:43.860 --> 00:11:45.600
you're overdoing the sort of realism a bit.

250
00:11:45.659 --> 00:11:48.899
I know the tourists expect a bit of grot or whatever, is that

251
00:11:48.899 --> 00:11:52.139
Sarah is perfectly fine in in her element and thinks she knows

252
00:11:52.139 --> 00:11:55.620
what's going on until she sees an alien, not the TARDIS, which is

253
00:11:55.620 --> 00:11:57.000
bigger on the inside than the outside.

254
00:11:57.059 --> 00:12:00.240
Not a bunch of people running around like it's the Middle Ages.

255
00:12:00.299 --> 00:12:01.980
Oh, maybe it really is.

256
00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:05.159
No, it takes a bloody alien to flap Sarah Jane Smith.

257
00:12:05.220 --> 00:12:09.899
She is fabulous and she's hitting, like, she gets caught by

258
00:12:09.899 --> 00:12:13.620
someone and she's just slapping him repeatedly as he drags her

259
00:12:13.620 --> 00:12:15.059
off.

260
00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:19.200
It's quite a bit of Bugs Money Looney tunes in this merry, you

261
00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:19.860
know, in this...

262
00:12:19.919 --> 00:12:24.299
I don't know, and some nice little nods again to, um, not

263
00:12:24.299 --> 00:12:27.179
mentioning Gatis again, and my favourite Robin Hood version is the

264
00:12:27.179 --> 00:12:30.179
1938 one with Basel Rathbone and Errol Flynn.

265
00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:33.000
There's some little lovely moments of this, but I don't think

266
00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:34.980
we've ever had a character like Iron Grown before.

267
00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:36.720
I don't even know if we've had one since.

268
00:12:36.779 --> 00:12:37.620
David Dacre.

269
00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:39.539
Well, you know it was actually going to who it was going to be

270
00:12:39.539 --> 00:12:39.960
don't you?

271
00:12:40.019 --> 00:12:40.559
No.

272
00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:42.120
I was a Bob Hoskins.

273
00:12:42.179 --> 00:12:43.139
Brilliant.

274
00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:44.940
It's so clever, isn't it?

275
00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:45.899
Well done.

276
00:12:45.960 --> 00:12:49.139
Linda, you're...

277
00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:52.259
Yeah, it was Bob Hoskins, but he got sadly involved with something

278
00:12:52.259 --> 00:12:54.419
else, but I'm really glad we have David Dacre.

279
00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:57.059
And John Carney, I think it is, who plays Blood Ox, was actually

280
00:12:57.059 --> 00:13:00.840
cast for his looks because they said that he would be sort of the

281
00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:04.620
internet twilated and kind of an gaman compared to the stocky

282
00:13:04.620 --> 00:13:06.000
ruddy David Daker.

283
00:13:06.059 --> 00:13:07.620
So just a lovely coupling.

284
00:13:07.679 --> 00:13:11.700
And the adoration in his eyes when he's looking at it.

285
00:13:11.700 --> 00:13:15.779
But I'm reminded again of that of that Looney Tunes character, of

286
00:13:15.779 --> 00:13:18.480
the bulldog and the little puppy running around, doing the same

287
00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:20.159
thing. you can just sort of think, oh, look, you two.

288
00:13:20.220 --> 00:13:20.639
I don't know.

289
00:13:20.700 --> 00:13:23.039
Well, they only have wenches to, you know, stir the oatmeal and

290
00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:24.240
lusty enough they are on that too.

291
00:13:25.500 --> 00:13:30.059
The dialogue is so, again, you know, because Holmes, the dialogue

292
00:13:30.059 --> 00:13:30.779
is really funny.

293
00:13:30.840 --> 00:13:33.539
And because he's making fun of the mediaeval thing.

294
00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:38.340
He has, he has them say things like beshroomy.

295
00:13:38.460 --> 00:13:43.259
You know, chicken-hearted knaves and way-faced poltroons and stuff

296
00:13:43.259 --> 00:13:45.960
like that. dialogue is...

297
00:13:46.019 --> 00:13:49.139
And it's sad that it's only a 4 parter and yet Monster of Peladon

298
00:13:49.139 --> 00:13:51.179
will get 6 episodes.

299
00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:53.820
Again, that was a cost saving measure because they already had the

300
00:13:53.820 --> 00:13:55.559
sets and they thought it would be cheaper for them.

301
00:13:55.620 --> 00:13:56.879
But you know what?

302
00:13:56.940 --> 00:13:59.879
Even the production crew at the time were sitting there saying

303
00:13:59.879 --> 00:14:04.860
bloody hell, we've got Dot Cotton and that old Nance, Sir Edward

304
00:14:04.860 --> 00:14:08.700
who later turns up as another old man, Doctor Who later on.

305
00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:09.960
Funnily enough.

306
00:14:10.379 --> 00:14:15.419
So Edward Wessex in the Time Warrior played by Alan Rowe.

307
00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:17.940
So he's in this story that Robert Holmes didn't want to write, and

308
00:14:17.940 --> 00:14:19.200
Terence Sticks forced him to write.

309
00:14:19.259 --> 00:14:20.580
And where does he turn up again, Nathan?

310
00:14:20.700 --> 00:14:22.139
Is he skin sale?

311
00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:23.940
Skin sale in Horror of Fang Rock here?

312
00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:24.659
Which is the story?

313
00:14:25.379 --> 00:14:29.639
He's skin sale, and he turns up in the horror of Fang Rock, which

314
00:14:29.639 --> 00:14:33.059
is the story Terrence Dix had to write for Robert Holmes.

315
00:14:33.059 --> 00:14:33.720
It's the revenge.

316
00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:36.299
It's the revenge story and even features the same actor.

317
00:14:36.419 --> 00:14:41.580
And of course, he was a longtime partner to Jeffrey Balden.

318
00:14:41.700 --> 00:14:42.240
He was.

319
00:14:42.299 --> 00:14:45.240
He was, our very own, our very own Jeffrey Berlin.

320
00:14:45.299 --> 00:14:48.000
And almost the doctor, I think, 3 times.

321
00:14:48.059 --> 00:14:49.440
Yeah, I think so.

322
00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:51.419
Billy Pertwee and Baker.

323
00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:52.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

324
00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:53.220
That Fred each time.

325
00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:56.399
And finally, of course, became the doctor on Big Finish opposite.

326
00:14:56.399 --> 00:14:57.600
Carol Anne Fool.

327
00:14:57.720 --> 00:14:59.159
He's a bit good in that too, isn't he?

328
00:14:59.220 --> 00:15:00.899
We always knew he would be a bit good in that.

329
00:15:01.019 --> 00:15:04.559
Speaking of, you know who it was meant to be, I think at this

330
00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:07.620
point we have to talk about the original Sarah Jane Smith.

331
00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:08.639
April Walker.

332
00:15:08.700 --> 00:15:09.360
April Walker.

333
00:15:09.419 --> 00:15:12.360
And did you know that Barry Lett's up until his dying breath would

334
00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:13.320
not reveal who that was?

335
00:15:13.379 --> 00:15:15.240
We had a fan out a year or two ago.

336
00:15:15.299 --> 00:15:16.259
Yeah, after he passed, yeah.

337
00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:20.100
And it was slipped in very quietly to the production subtitles of

338
00:15:20.100 --> 00:15:22.019
an invasion of the dinosaurs.

339
00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:28.019
And so she was cast and paid for an entire episode. the entire

340
00:15:28.019 --> 00:15:28.379
season.

341
00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:31.740
The reason that she was replaced is that pertly felt that someone

342
00:15:31.740 --> 00:15:36.240
of her stature, because she was tall, I think she was as tall as

343
00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:38.100
him and very solid.

344
00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:41.039
He's like, my doctor is protective and I won't be able to protect

345
00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:43.860
her and she's very overtly sexy and we shouldn't have an overtly

346
00:15:43.860 --> 00:15:47.039
sexy character was his was his view.

347
00:15:47.100 --> 00:15:49.980
And I think that's very churlish considering he chose to leave 3

348
00:15:49.980 --> 00:15:50.460
months later.

349
00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:51.419
Yeah.

350
00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:52.860
She was devastated.

351
00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:53.759
Yeah.

352
00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:55.379
If you don't know who she is.

353
00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:57.600
She is in a Faulty Towers episode.

354
00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:02.639
And she plays Gene in the episode, the wedding party.

355
00:16:02.700 --> 00:16:04.019
Yeah, that's right.

356
00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:07.500
So, yeah, not the Australian that Basil, you know, bondles

357
00:16:07.500 --> 00:16:08.340
inadvertently.

358
00:16:08.340 --> 00:16:09.539
Yeah, looking for the light switch.

359
00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:10.139
No, no.

360
00:16:10.139 --> 00:16:13.440
But the woman who's going to the wedding and she is very tall and

361
00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:15.480
very confident and she would have been great.

362
00:16:15.539 --> 00:16:16.620
But we get Liz.

363
00:16:16.740 --> 00:16:17.820
Liz is amazing.

364
00:16:17.879 --> 00:16:19.320
She is really, really good.

365
00:16:19.379 --> 00:16:23.039
Like, I love Joe. Like, I think Joe's a great character.

366
00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:24.779
She's been terrific for these 3 years.

367
00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:26.100
Her leaving was devastating.

368
00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:29.879
But Liz is, she's sort of snarky and oppositional without being

369
00:16:29.879 --> 00:16:31.019
unlikeable.

370
00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:31.679
Yes.

371
00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:35.820
And she does scared and brave at the same time.

372
00:16:35.879 --> 00:16:38.519
And that's what they said she was so good at, no one else had

373
00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:38.820
been.

374
00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:39.360
And she is.

375
00:16:39.419 --> 00:16:42.299
She carries that off in stories further along the season.

376
00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:45.840
She really rescues key scenes in Death to the Daleks and Monster

377
00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:47.399
Peladon, just by being able to do that.

378
00:16:47.460 --> 00:16:50.460
But in this one, she's just sublimely perfect.

379
00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:54.960
And as Liz herself said, never again do you get Sarah Jane in such

380
00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:58.860
concentrated cordial flavour as you do in this one?

381
00:16:58.980 --> 00:17:01.320
It's really astringent SJS.

382
00:17:01.379 --> 00:17:04.859
You don't you don't ever get her being quite like this ever

383
00:17:04.859 --> 00:17:05.279
again.

384
00:17:05.339 --> 00:17:07.019
Do you know the 1st day of shooting, though?

385
00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:07.920
She was so nervous.

386
00:17:07.980 --> 00:17:12.119
It was when she's being carted into the, and some of her finest

387
00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:14.759
moments in there, so actually ad-libs or mistakes that they kept

388
00:17:14.759 --> 00:17:16.200
in because they found it so charming.

389
00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:17.700
She slips into Scouse.

390
00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:19.920
She a Liverpoolian lass, you know, and of course, when she gets

391
00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:23.400
cranky, Her line of I could murder a cup of tea, as she was

392
00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:25.380
getting more confident, was an ad lib.

393
00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:29.339
But also when the 2 lusty lads on it, he'll pick her up and she

394
00:17:29.339 --> 00:17:31.740
says, she's out, shout, shouts out, gear off.

395
00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:33.299
Yeah, girl.

396
00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:36.359
Yeah, that's ugly. a mistake.

397
00:17:36.420 --> 00:17:37.559
She wanted it.

398
00:17:37.619 --> 00:17:39.180
She pleaded to get it cut.

399
00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:40.319
He said, no love, it's perfect.

400
00:17:40.380 --> 00:17:44.039
Yeah, because it's so sad that so many regional actors at that

401
00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:48.119
time worked to get rid of their accents and it would only come out

402
00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:49.200
in extremists.

403
00:17:49.259 --> 00:17:53.279
The other great thing about that 1st scene she shot is John

404
00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:55.259
Pertwee grabbed...

405
00:17:55.380 --> 00:17:57.539
He had this little fold up chair and he grabbed it and he sat next

406
00:17:57.539 --> 00:17:59.880
to the director watching her scene and she was terrified.

407
00:17:59.940 --> 00:18:00.599
That's right.

408
00:18:00.660 --> 00:18:04.079
With his hand in his chin and his great, long, shaky nose staring

409
00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:04.740
down at her.

410
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:07.440
You know, she said to him, apparently, he was like, John, I was

411
00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:07.799
terrified.

412
00:18:07.859 --> 00:18:11.400
He said, oh, no, darling, that's me saying, I, I, I was, I was

413
00:18:11.400 --> 00:18:12.240
being there to support you.

414
00:18:12.299 --> 00:18:14.220
I was saying, look, you're going to be wonderful.

415
00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:14.880
You're so wonderful.

416
00:18:14.940 --> 00:18:18.480
I don't have to be here and I am, which is...

417
00:18:18.539 --> 00:18:21.839
It's like, I'm blessing you with my And also your bum will be up

418
00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:22.440
on you shoulders.

419
00:18:22.500 --> 00:18:24.299
So I'll be like, I can't miss a scene like that.

420
00:18:24.779 --> 00:18:28.980
But isn't it, isn't she notoriously have this sort of, this

421
00:18:28.980 --> 00:18:32.819
interesting state with with pertwe that behind the scenes is that

422
00:18:32.819 --> 00:18:35.519
didn't he chat her up and she said, no, thanks, sir.

423
00:18:35.640 --> 00:18:37.680
I'm a working girl, but not in that way.

424
00:18:37.740 --> 00:18:39.720
Well, I don't know that.

425
00:18:39.779 --> 00:18:42.359
That's certainly true of Patrick McNe and Diana Rigg on the

426
00:18:42.359 --> 00:18:42.839
Avengers.

427
00:18:42.900 --> 00:18:45.420
Yeah, that was Pat and everybody on the Avengers.

428
00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:46.680
He tried that when they were girls.

429
00:18:46.740 --> 00:18:50.640
Apparently Patrick McNee took Diana Rigg out to dinner after their

430
00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:51.660
1st days filming.

431
00:18:51.660 --> 00:18:55.319
And as Patrick McNee puts it, we were absolutely outrageous.

432
00:18:55.319 --> 00:18:58.920
And as the night wore on, the topic moved to workplace

433
00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:02.339
relationships, Diana apologised and said that she only made

434
00:19:02.339 --> 00:19:03.900
exceptions for men of intellect.

435
00:19:04.920 --> 00:19:08.579
I really hope a similar scene had happened here that I somehow

436
00:19:08.579 --> 00:19:12.059
died. gotten rid of that ruddy humobile before I even look at you

437
00:19:12.059 --> 00:19:12.359
twice.

438
00:19:12.420 --> 00:19:14.579
It could have been one of the lines.

439
00:19:14.819 --> 00:19:18.720
But we're all jumping ahead because there's so much in this season

440
00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:19.200
isn't there?

441
00:19:19.259 --> 00:19:20.759
Why do we love this story so much?

442
00:19:20.819 --> 00:19:23.220
At base, it's pretty simple story, isn't it?

443
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:26.759
Well, in fact, it just becomes a series of silly capers, actually.

444
00:19:26.819 --> 00:19:28.200
With some brilliant actors.

445
00:19:28.259 --> 00:19:28.799
Yeah, yeah.

446
00:19:28.859 --> 00:19:32.039
But once it's sort of set up, basically it's lots of cunning plans

447
00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:33.480
to try and be deep.

448
00:19:33.539 --> 00:19:36.660
And they're, you know, like silly plants like the doctor and Sarah

449
00:19:36.660 --> 00:19:38.640
dressing as friars and...

450
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:40.619
In his Wurzel postman voice.

451
00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:42.839
Did you know that's his favourite scene?

452
00:19:42.900 --> 00:19:45.599
That was Pert's favourite moment in this whole story.

453
00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:48.779
And actually, when he's at his most relaxed, You can see this is

454
00:19:48.779 --> 00:19:52.380
really probably the point where those 2 really gel together as an

455
00:19:52.380 --> 00:19:54.420
acting couple and they're...

456
00:19:54.420 --> 00:19:56.700
Unlike the guards they get past, who are...

457
00:19:56.700 --> 00:20:00.480
With the worst accents comedy ever...

458
00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:03.839
You will find him a kind and charitable.

459
00:20:03.900 --> 00:20:07.319
I mean, he obviously thinks he's doing an episode of Monty

460
00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:08.880
Python's flying circus with that.

461
00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:10.740
It's not even good enough to be black at her, is it?

462
00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:13.559
But then Pertwee trumps them all with his Wurzel voice.

463
00:20:13.619 --> 00:20:16.440
It's really appalling There's lots.

464
00:20:16.500 --> 00:20:19.559
There's so much to love. tends to do quite a few voices in this

465
00:20:19.559 --> 00:20:20.940
because he gets to do the Wurzel Boys.

466
00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:21.779
He gets to be the robot.

467
00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:23.640
You will damage my circus.

468
00:20:23.700 --> 00:20:25.799
Is that the weakest point in the story, actually?

469
00:20:25.859 --> 00:20:28.019
The whole notion of the Mickey Mouse robot thing?

470
00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:28.980
That feels like Padding.

471
00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:30.420
You know, I quite like it.

472
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:33.900
I quite like because it's kind of like what Robert Slyman does

473
00:20:33.900 --> 00:20:35.759
which is play on variations of an idea.

474
00:20:35.819 --> 00:20:39.240
And in terms of the Santara, okay, what can he give them?

475
00:20:39.299 --> 00:20:41.519
He can give them flintlocks, but that's not so exciting.

476
00:20:41.579 --> 00:20:42.480
That's something we have.

477
00:20:42.539 --> 00:20:45.960
What's something he can give them that we in the 20th century

478
00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:49.319
don't have, but every little boy loves will give him a robot.

479
00:20:49.380 --> 00:20:50.279
Yeah.

480
00:20:50.279 --> 00:20:54.480
And we do see in the next Santaran story, we're getting ahead of

481
00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:57.000
ourselves, I know, but Santarans do seem to have a skill with

482
00:20:57.000 --> 00:20:57.660
robotics.

483
00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:02.339
With terrible, terrible, unconvincing, terrible...

484
00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:03.660
Do you know what Santa says?

485
00:21:03.779 --> 00:21:05.279
Yes, sir.

486
00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:06.059
He makes points.

487
00:21:06.059 --> 00:21:12.539
That links is the scientific advisor to a military organisation.

488
00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:17.759
No, but he is. the miniature organisation being iron grown and

489
00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:19.200
he's bumbly chums.

490
00:21:19.259 --> 00:21:20.640
No, I think he's onto a good point.

491
00:21:20.700 --> 00:21:23.519
I think Holmes is actually lampooning because Holmes is so meta

492
00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:26.640
clever, but he's actually going right back to the beginning of

493
00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:30.000
Barry Lett's tenure and saying, well, okay, let's just make

494
00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:32.640
another show within a show, which he always does if you want to

495
00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:33.059
look for it.

496
00:21:33.180 --> 00:21:37.079
And Santa has taught us to see that and to find it. this, yeah

497
00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:37.440
you're right.

498
00:21:37.500 --> 00:21:41.880
This is a reboot of season 7 inside the story of this season 11.

499
00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:44.039
Or it's like the introduction of the master.

500
00:21:44.099 --> 00:21:48.180
What Xander says is, you know, these days we think of some Torrens

501
00:21:48.180 --> 00:21:52.619
is, you know, like the 5th most popular Doctor Who monster or

502
00:21:52.619 --> 00:21:56.700
something, but Holmes is just inventing a single character links.

503
00:21:56.759 --> 00:22:00.539
And it's one actor pulling it off in the Mr. Potato head and

504
00:22:00.539 --> 00:22:02.099
silvery spacey quilting.

505
00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:04.859
And it's the lovely Kevin Lindsay.

506
00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:05.759
Hands on hips, everyone.

507
00:22:05.819 --> 00:22:06.720
Kevin Lindsay.

508
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:09.539
I am a Sontaran.

509
00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:12.119
I think it's pronounced on Terran. from the bloody place.

510
00:22:12.180 --> 00:22:12.900
That's right.

511
00:22:12.900 --> 00:22:14.759
Saunterrant, the director wanted it.

512
00:22:14.819 --> 00:22:16.859
Yeah, except he didn't say bloody.

513
00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:18.420
It's so good.

514
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:21.420
And the little silly flag popping up, which again is very duck

515
00:22:21.420 --> 00:22:23.099
dodgers in the 24th and a half.

516
00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:26.579
Well, yes, he doesn't he conquer the earth and its associated

517
00:22:26.579 --> 00:22:29.039
moons and satellites with his little flag.

518
00:22:29.099 --> 00:22:29.880
But a little flag.

519
00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:32.460
It's like the Eddie Isard thing. you know, do you have a flag?

520
00:22:34.019 --> 00:22:38.819
But again, David Dacre and Bloodax coring, though, it's just, it's

521
00:22:38.819 --> 00:22:39.839
really the 3 of them.

522
00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:42.599
And Alan Roe and the fabulous dot cotton.

523
00:22:42.660 --> 00:22:44.460
We got to get to Lady Eleanor.

524
00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:47.700
There's even lines cut...

525
00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:51.180
There are lines cut out in this, that even the production team

526
00:22:51.180 --> 00:22:54.359
even Terence thought, oh, we're probably being a bit too sexist

527
00:22:54.359 --> 00:22:56.819
because it's a bit hand fisted in the way they say, you know, a

528
00:22:56.819 --> 00:22:57.720
liberated character.

529
00:22:57.779 --> 00:22:59.759
Let's make everyone, as we were going to say earlier.

530
00:22:59.819 --> 00:23:02.940
Professor Rubich has a line that was cut out about female brains

531
00:23:02.940 --> 00:23:06.420
not being the right form to carry thoughts about science

532
00:23:06.420 --> 00:23:07.740
proficiently.

533
00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:10.559
And there are a couple of lines on Lady Eleanor.

534
00:23:10.619 --> 00:23:13.380
But we were saying before, the production team would have liked

535
00:23:13.380 --> 00:23:17.279
another 2 episodes, to give the Wessex characters, to give how the

536
00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:22.559
Boba Fett archer type guy, another go and, well, we know what was

537
00:23:22.559 --> 00:23:24.119
going to happen with Halle Archer, don't we?

538
00:23:24.180 --> 00:23:25.440
Potential companion.

539
00:23:25.500 --> 00:23:26.039
Exactly.

540
00:23:26.099 --> 00:23:27.059
He was another Jamie.

541
00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:30.000
He was there because they were still not cast.

542
00:23:30.059 --> 00:23:32.940
It's still not Cast Baker, and they hadn't actually got to it

543
00:23:32.940 --> 00:23:34.980
until Invasion of the Dinosaurs was filming.

544
00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:37.079
So it was really getting to be a panic.

545
00:23:37.140 --> 00:23:38.759
So they thought, we might need this bloke.

546
00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:40.500
And it was, can you imagine how well that would have worked

547
00:23:40.500 --> 00:23:42.299
because they'll never do that in a show, would they?

548
00:23:42.299 --> 00:23:44.940
meet a companion and then the next story just oddly go back and

549
00:23:44.940 --> 00:23:48.539
pick them up again and say that, you know, for no good reason at

550
00:23:48.539 --> 00:23:49.619
all.

551
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:50.519
Yes, exactly.

552
00:23:50.579 --> 00:23:52.079
I've never seen Lagopolis either.

553
00:23:52.140 --> 00:23:53.759
I wouldn't know what we're talking about.

554
00:23:53.819 --> 00:23:57.119
I think at this stage, I think at this stage, they were worried

555
00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:59.640
that John would leave because John had asked for his rise, which

556
00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:01.559
had been...

557
00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:02.460
His yearly rise.

558
00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:04.200
And yeah, his yearly rise had been turned down.

559
00:24:04.259 --> 00:24:07.140
But we, like, he was making noises about leaving.

560
00:24:07.259 --> 00:24:10.799
Barry and Terence apparently decided to leave during production of

561
00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:13.079
The Time Warrior, which happened immediately after the Green

562
00:24:13.079 --> 00:24:13.500
Death.

563
00:24:13.619 --> 00:24:17.700
John, because this is still actually a shoot part of season 10

564
00:24:17.700 --> 00:24:18.240
isn't it?

565
00:24:18.299 --> 00:24:23.339
John apparently didn't finally decide to leave until production of

566
00:24:23.339 --> 00:24:24.359
Death to the Daleks.

567
00:24:24.420 --> 00:24:29.940
And we'll have fun splotting which scene it is where we think I

568
00:24:29.940 --> 00:24:33.059
think I think it's when he's calling out Hamlet lines to the

569
00:24:33.059 --> 00:24:33.359
root.

570
00:24:34.380 --> 00:24:37.920
I do actually have a, I do actually have a theory on why that is

571
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:39.359
but we'll wait until we get to this.

572
00:24:39.420 --> 00:24:41.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because we're jumping around twisty-turny here.

573
00:24:41.700 --> 00:24:44.400
That's an interesting point when they were saying, you know, he

574
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:46.920
asked for more money and Sean Sutton, the controller.

575
00:24:46.980 --> 00:24:48.720
And old Chandler Pertwee, actually.

576
00:24:48.779 --> 00:24:51.720
They went back to the radio days together in the 50s.

577
00:24:51.779 --> 00:24:55.259
Barry Letts, before he passed, was quite adamant that knows, is

578
00:24:55.259 --> 00:24:58.319
one of those stories that John has it being a raconteur, had a

579
00:24:58.319 --> 00:25:00.359
certain way of telling stories to the point that he ended up

580
00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:01.500
believing them himself.

581
00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:06.299
So Barry Letts, almost 10 years after John Pertwee's own passing

582
00:25:06.299 --> 00:25:06.779
in 96.

583
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:09.539
So in the early 2000s, was saying, um, that's not the case at

584
00:25:09.539 --> 00:25:09.779
all.

585
00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:11.940
I was the executive producer.

586
00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:13.380
I was in charge of budget.

587
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:17.819
If my leading man had wanted a rise, I would have handled it

588
00:25:17.819 --> 00:25:18.839
through the budget of the show.

589
00:25:18.900 --> 00:25:21.059
Sutton would not have told that to Pertley.

590
00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:22.440
There were a whole lot of other things going on.

591
00:25:22.500 --> 00:25:25.500
But we're still a bit hazy about it.

592
00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:28.380
I like, maybe when we get to the end of the season, we can we can

593
00:25:28.380 --> 00:25:31.079
look at what's going on here because it's a bit like season 18.

594
00:25:31.259 --> 00:25:33.180
There's a certain sadness.

595
00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:36.180
There's a certain languidness in Pertley's performance and I

596
00:25:36.180 --> 00:25:38.039
actually like him a lot in this season.

597
00:25:38.099 --> 00:25:39.359
I really came.

598
00:25:39.420 --> 00:25:42.960
This is the season I knew when I 1st came to Doctor Who as a

599
00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:46.440
child's, and that's why I love Perby so much, because you get all

600
00:25:46.440 --> 00:25:51.420
of that, uh, hubristic acting isn't kind of here so much. certainly

601
00:25:51.420 --> 00:25:52.140
not in this story.

602
00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:55.319
He's a little bit more comical.

603
00:25:55.380 --> 00:25:58.380
I had, like, I've made cracks on the podcast before about pertly

604
00:25:58.380 --> 00:25:59.339
retiring from acting.

605
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:01.019
It's fair, actually.

606
00:26:01.079 --> 00:26:05.160
Well, but when I watch season 11, I actually, he was the doctor

607
00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:08.880
that I remember both we being when I 1st started watching the show

608
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:11.220
and he's, he's not obnoxious.

609
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:12.599
He's a little bit more amused.

610
00:26:12.660 --> 00:26:14.039
He's charming in this one.

611
00:26:14.099 --> 00:26:19.140
Yeah, and I think maybe the departure has more to do with Katie

612
00:26:19.140 --> 00:26:21.180
leaving and Roger dying.

613
00:26:21.299 --> 00:26:22.980
Yeah, I think that's important.

614
00:26:22.980 --> 00:26:25.440
And Barry and Terrence being on the way out as well.

615
00:26:25.500 --> 00:26:28.079
And unit being only...

616
00:26:28.140 --> 00:26:30.119
I mean, unit's just a curtain party, isn't it?

617
00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:31.740
peekaboo from the brigadier and that's it.

618
00:26:31.799 --> 00:26:34.200
It had actually been that for the last couple of seasons.

619
00:26:34.259 --> 00:26:36.779
That was the other thing that struck me is that season 11

620
00:26:36.779 --> 00:26:39.839
basically has a sort of fairly similar structure to the previous

621
00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:45.539
few seasons where we top and tail with a story with unit, unit

622
00:26:45.539 --> 00:26:51.119
gets the big finale is kind of vaguely in the 1st story, but we

623
00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:53.160
don't see it for the rest of the season.

624
00:26:53.220 --> 00:26:54.960
And we've done that for a couple of years now.

625
00:26:55.019 --> 00:26:58.799
Well, I think pert we, possibly because he's considering living

626
00:26:58.799 --> 00:27:02.940
and then decides to leave, does become more relaxed in the role.

627
00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:07.740
He doesn't have to worry about how he is perceived because he's on

628
00:27:07.740 --> 00:27:08.579
the way out anyway.

629
00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:12.420
It, it, take him to an, taken to an extreme.

630
00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:14.220
I mean on the way out of the role.

631
00:27:14.279 --> 00:27:17.099
But he was very big on his own perception.

632
00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:20.519
Paddy Russell would go on to talk about an invasion of the

633
00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:21.119
dinosaurs.

634
00:27:21.180 --> 00:27:25.079
Russell was complaining that and most of the cast and crew, that

635
00:27:25.079 --> 00:27:29.099
his entire attitude was kind of apathetic, except to his costume.

636
00:27:29.160 --> 00:27:34.259
Every, every, in every story in this one, his, his interest in

637
00:27:34.259 --> 00:27:37.140
wardrobe was paramount, and he would spend most of the time

638
00:27:37.140 --> 00:27:39.960
fussing about with wardrobe, or indeed answering the door as he

639
00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:44.279
does in Time, Warrior, to, um, to Adjournal in, in curlers and a

640
00:27:44.279 --> 00:27:44.940
corset.

641
00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:46.740
Do you know that story?

642
00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:47.339
No.

643
00:27:47.339 --> 00:27:47.759
Yeah.

644
00:27:47.819 --> 00:27:48.599
Oh really?

645
00:27:48.660 --> 00:27:49.920
Yeah, yeah.

646
00:27:49.980 --> 00:27:50.759
Yeah.

647
00:27:50.819 --> 00:27:52.619
Yeah, because he got drenched.

648
00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:54.059
So they had to perm his hair.

649
00:27:54.119 --> 00:27:54.539
Yeah.

650
00:27:54.539 --> 00:27:55.740
Yeah.

651
00:27:55.799 --> 00:27:58.259
Don't you wish that had made the cover of the radio times?

652
00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:01.140
Getting back to the time worry, though.

653
00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:04.500
Of course, this is before all this has come to pass and the

654
00:28:04.500 --> 00:28:10.319
arguable apathy takes hold. is so strange to consider that this is

655
00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:11.460
produced before everything else.

656
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:14.759
He has, by the time of invasion of dinosaurs, he has noticeably

657
00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:15.119
aged.

658
00:28:15.180 --> 00:28:21.539
Hmm, his hair, his hair is more bouffant than in time warrior.

659
00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:23.339
He has a few more lines on his face.

660
00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:27.299
And also Time Warrior would have been shot just a few weeks after

661
00:28:27.299 --> 00:28:30.119
you know, his best friend left the show.

662
00:28:30.180 --> 00:28:35.099
And yet he is so full of verve and vigour and just gels with

663
00:28:35.099 --> 00:28:37.140
Elizabeth Sladen immediately.

664
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:39.660
Yeah, what makes this story work?

665
00:28:39.660 --> 00:28:41.640
And really, there's not that much going on.

666
00:28:41.700 --> 00:28:43.140
It's got some pretty scenery.

667
00:28:43.200 --> 00:28:47.579
You can see that the budget on this is tiny compared to Planet of

668
00:28:47.579 --> 00:28:49.319
the Daleks. you realise that?

669
00:28:49.380 --> 00:28:54.240
But it does what BBC does so well, is they put on a few bits of

670
00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:57.299
old green felt and, you know, and forsooth your way through the

671
00:28:57.299 --> 00:29:00.180
new forest. through your way.

672
00:29:00.180 --> 00:29:01.680
And they do it beautifully.

673
00:29:01.740 --> 00:29:07.259
And it's really down to wonderful Kevin Lindsay, who does so much

674
00:29:07.259 --> 00:29:11.759
with really not that much to work with and pertly allowing

675
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:15.299
everyone else, including Liz, to take centre stage.

676
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:17.279
That's a new thing for this doctor.

677
00:29:17.339 --> 00:29:22.619
Yeah, I mean, the relationship between the doctor and Sarah is so

678
00:29:22.619 --> 00:29:25.680
different to the doctor and Katie, and I think it's, I think it's

679
00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:29.640
a great testament to Pertwee and to Barry and Terence, that they

680
00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:31.259
didn't just try and replicate it.

681
00:29:31.319 --> 00:29:36.000
They realised that the that Sarah's character wouldn't respond to

682
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:39.359
the doctor's paternal instinct in the same way that Casey did.

683
00:29:39.480 --> 00:29:41.039
So they have fun with that instead.

684
00:29:41.099 --> 00:29:43.319
The whole you could make us a cup of coffee line.

685
00:29:43.380 --> 00:29:46.019
Now, between the doctor and Joe, that would just be a bit of

686
00:29:46.019 --> 00:29:47.640
playful banter.

687
00:29:47.700 --> 00:29:51.960
But from the doctor to Sarah, yeah, it gets her back right up and

688
00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:54.420
you kind of go, actually, yeah, there's no reason that she has to

689
00:29:54.420 --> 00:29:55.619
go off and make his coffee.

690
00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:58.799
And it makes you question that dynamic.

691
00:29:58.859 --> 00:30:02.519
Also, it makes the doctor take her more seriously.

692
00:30:02.579 --> 00:30:04.859
He doesn't try any of that again.

693
00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:06.059
And then later on...

694
00:30:06.059 --> 00:30:07.140
He slapped into place, isn't he?

695
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:11.460
When she's helping him out with the sewing and the stink bombs and

696
00:30:11.460 --> 00:30:14.279
whatnot, he talks to her as an equal straight away.

697
00:30:14.339 --> 00:30:16.259
There's none of this ham fisted bun bender.

698
00:30:16.380 --> 00:30:18.119
Dont worry, Joe, you're a bit cloth headed kind of thing.

699
00:30:18.180 --> 00:30:19.920
He does actually say bum bender, doesn't he?

700
00:30:19.980 --> 00:30:21.720
I watch I watch Terror of the Ordons again.

701
00:30:21.779 --> 00:30:24.599
Yeah, there's all those lovely moments in the forest when he's

702
00:30:24.599 --> 00:30:27.960
taking saltpetre, which, by the way, takes 6 months to make.

703
00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:31.680
So, we're just as educational as the actual program we...

704
00:30:31.740 --> 00:30:32.700
I need to look up the details of that.

705
00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:33.359
It's in my notes.

706
00:30:33.900 --> 00:30:36.359
What else can we say about this show?

707
00:30:36.420 --> 00:30:37.859
So potatoes.

708
00:30:37.980 --> 00:30:43.380
So there is a terrific scene, and it is a great counterpoint to

709
00:30:43.380 --> 00:30:46.619
all the modern day stuff about, you know, relationships between

710
00:30:46.619 --> 00:30:47.519
men and women.

711
00:30:47.579 --> 00:30:52.259
Sarah, as one of the sort of hilarious japes and schemes that

712
00:30:52.259 --> 00:30:56.099
characterise the last couple of episodes of this story, is dressed

713
00:30:56.099 --> 00:31:00.480
as a lady initially and ends up in Meg's kitchen, but ends up

714
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:04.680
working as a serving wench, and she's peeling potatoes, probably

715
00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:07.740
which, of course, didn't arrive in England until...

716
00:31:07.799 --> 00:31:10.140
But let's don't make a big deal of it, and it could be a Swede or

717
00:31:10.140 --> 00:31:10.559
a turn.

718
00:31:10.619 --> 00:31:11.160
It could be.

719
00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:12.180
A turnip of their very own.

720
00:31:12.839 --> 00:31:15.299
I like to think it's a tiny, whimey sort of potato.

721
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:18.059
But there is a conversation with Meg the serving woman.

722
00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:23.339
So Sarah does her kind of feminist speech and it really is the

723
00:31:23.339 --> 00:31:25.980
only overtly feminist thing that she kind of says.

724
00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:29.160
She objects to being patronised, which I guess is something that

725
00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:33.480
you get feminists to say on television at this time they get Ruth

726
00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:35.700
Ingram to do it in time monster.

727
00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:38.940
So she objects to being patronised early, but the 1st time that

728
00:31:38.940 --> 00:31:40.980
she says, you know, men don't own us.

729
00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:42.660
You know, they don't tell us what to do.

730
00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:46.380
And Meg says, well, you know, yes, they kind of do.

731
00:31:46.440 --> 00:31:50.039
And she says, oh, you're living in the Middle Ages, but then she

732
00:31:50.039 --> 00:31:53.640
patches herself and realises it's a stupid thing to say and sort

733
00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:54.720
of doesn't say anymore.

734
00:31:54.779 --> 00:32:00.059
But just before that, Meg has said that men were always like

735
00:32:00.059 --> 00:32:03.180
children, you know, with their brawling and like she has a

736
00:32:03.180 --> 00:32:06.119
contempt for the men in the castle as well.

737
00:32:06.180 --> 00:32:10.920
So, you know, there is a sort of bit of proto-medieval feminism

738
00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:11.579
there.

739
00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:13.799
It's a kind of cowser point, Sarah.

740
00:32:14.339 --> 00:32:15.059
Sheila Faye.

741
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:17.940
I think there should be in a Sheila Faye appreciation society.

742
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:20.160
She has been another Doctor Who stories, hasn't she?

743
00:32:20.220 --> 00:32:24.660
But Meg, the kitchen, Uber, Meister.

744
00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:26.400
She's got a great accent.

745
00:32:26.460 --> 00:32:27.299
She's so good.

746
00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:28.140
And that hair.

747
00:32:28.500 --> 00:32:31.980
It does take a lot of effort to get your hair like that.

748
00:32:32.099 --> 00:32:35.160
Nathan, I see that your eyes are wandering.

749
00:32:35.220 --> 00:32:36.779
Would you care to comment on?

750
00:32:36.779 --> 00:32:40.140
Because I'm not that I'm pushing the liberation point here, but I

751
00:32:40.140 --> 00:32:42.660
believe that you may well be...

752
00:32:42.660 --> 00:32:45.059
So, when I was a kid, you may well be looking at my thorax.

753
00:32:45.299 --> 00:32:50.099
When I was a kid, I thought the famous line about your thorax

754
00:32:50.099 --> 00:32:54.839
being of a different construction, Richard was about Sarah's lack

755
00:32:54.839 --> 00:32:55.799
of an Adam's apple.

756
00:32:55.859 --> 00:32:57.299
I thought it was a thinner neck.

757
00:32:57.420 --> 00:33:01.140
Yeah, and and Lynx actually grabs her chin.

758
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:01.799
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

759
00:33:01.859 --> 00:33:07.740
And Russell reuses the joke in the poisoned sky when the

760
00:33:07.740 --> 00:33:09.240
Sontarians are reintroduced.

761
00:33:09.299 --> 00:33:13.740
Again, it seems to be about the neck, but your thorax isn't your

762
00:33:13.740 --> 00:33:14.640
neck, it's your chest.

763
00:33:14.700 --> 00:33:15.299
It is.

764
00:33:15.299 --> 00:33:17.759
And so it's that she has breasts.

765
00:33:17.819 --> 00:33:19.980
Must be substances.

766
00:33:19.980 --> 00:33:21.900
As we say in the BBC.

767
00:33:21.900 --> 00:33:23.940
It's a Bob Holmes breastroke.

768
00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:24.720
There you go.

769
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:25.740
That's not the only one.

770
00:33:26.579 --> 00:33:30.779
You know, and considering how top heavy Santarians are, it's like

771
00:33:30.779 --> 00:33:32.339
easy there, Ty.

772
00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:36.480
So it was that, and of course, one thing that we haven't mentioned

773
00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:39.720
is this is the 1st mention of the planet, Gallon.

774
00:33:39.779 --> 00:33:40.200
Yeah.

775
00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:41.640
It certainly is, thank you.

776
00:33:41.700 --> 00:33:44.700
It's a lovely Irish vineyard somewhere, isn't it?

777
00:33:44.759 --> 00:33:46.740
It's just dropped without much ceremony.

778
00:33:46.799 --> 00:33:48.359
It's just, I am from Gallifrey.

779
00:33:48.420 --> 00:33:51.539
It's almost as if, the same to the audience, you know that.

780
00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:52.259
You've heard it before.

781
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:55.619
Actually, I think by that point the name had been published in the

782
00:33:55.619 --> 00:33:57.359
Radio Times 10th anniversary special.

783
00:33:57.420 --> 00:33:58.259
Oh, okay.

784
00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:02.220
I, you know, because this had already been shot by that point.

785
00:34:02.279 --> 00:34:05.880
The only other name it had been given is in TV comic, and it was

786
00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:11.340
called the Planet Jewel, as in JEWE, as in Jimmy, not as in...

787
00:34:11.340 --> 00:34:12.000
Hitty-hitty.

788
00:34:12.059 --> 00:34:12.480
Yes, yes.

789
00:34:12.539 --> 00:34:14.340
Yeah, that would have been boring.

790
00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:14.940
Yeah.

791
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:17.760
Well, a bit spangly, although we've seen 3 doctors and it wasn't

792
00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:18.900
entirely inappropriate.

793
00:34:19.260 --> 00:34:22.139
Of course, the planet game show.

794
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:25.139
It's a game show sense.

795
00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:28.139
Grant Denya's there.

796
00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:31.019
So what jobs can a time lady do?

797
00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:36.059
You know, Berlitz was going to direct this one that Bromley was

798
00:34:36.059 --> 00:34:39.059
brought in at the last minute, and Bromley was renowned.

799
00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:41.340
We haven't talked about direction on this one.

800
00:34:41.400 --> 00:34:42.900
It's seen as a bit ploddy, isn't it?

801
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:44.340
It's all right.

802
00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:47.880
But he's actually seen, apparently, the heads and nodders.

803
00:34:47.940 --> 00:34:49.380
So all this is terrific.

804
00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:53.699
Bromley was really good old school BBC. which is why you don't get

805
00:34:53.699 --> 00:34:54.900
a lot of camera movement in this.

806
00:34:54.960 --> 00:34:57.840
His old school fixed cameras, 3 on a set.

807
00:34:57.900 --> 00:35:01.739
Did you notice how the scenes are really elongated as they were in

808
00:35:01.739 --> 00:35:06.300
the 50s when he was, you know, at his prime, working full-time for

809
00:35:06.300 --> 00:35:08.760
the BBC, on historical dramas.

810
00:35:08.820 --> 00:35:12.420
So you've got a lot of these static shots with the folk moving

811
00:35:12.420 --> 00:35:12.719
around.

812
00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:15.300
I actually think the elongated scenes work a lot better for this

813
00:35:15.300 --> 00:35:18.480
to give the more of the banter between the characters.

814
00:35:18.539 --> 00:35:21.599
Something that I don't think we get so much these days in Modern

815
00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:22.199
Doctor Who.

816
00:35:22.260 --> 00:35:26.760
I like that a naturalistic conversation can play out or Sarah's

817
00:35:26.760 --> 00:35:29.400
whole thing about the dinginess is a very long scene.

818
00:35:29.460 --> 00:35:32.639
You wouldn't really get in a 45 minute story nowadays, and I'd

819
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:33.420
really love it for that.

820
00:35:33.480 --> 00:35:36.539
Yeah, his performances that he directs are good.

821
00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:38.880
The set design's very good as well.

822
00:35:38.940 --> 00:35:43.199
That's a great idea, except for the special effects, especially...

823
00:35:43.260 --> 00:35:46.619
And Barry hated this, the destruction of the castle at the end

824
00:35:46.619 --> 00:35:48.179
which is just a quarry wall falling down.

825
00:35:48.239 --> 00:35:51.059
We could do a model, Barry said, you know, we do models.

826
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:52.920
He said, oh, you don't need to spend the money on that, you know

827
00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:55.860
and yeah, it was old school BBCs to save every cent.

828
00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:56.699
Yeah, yeah.

829
00:35:57.119 --> 00:36:01.440
So and that's why for DVD, this was a candidate for digital

830
00:36:01.440 --> 00:36:03.000
effects, most of which are very good.

831
00:36:03.059 --> 00:36:03.840
Really?

832
00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:06.239
I actually...

833
00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:10.260
The castle is a bit ropey, unfortunately, but as the animator

834
00:36:10.260 --> 00:36:13.019
later came out and defended himself, he said, you know what?

835
00:36:13.079 --> 00:36:15.659
In the time frame I had and the software I had, that is the best

836
00:36:15.659 --> 00:36:18.840
work you can do with flames and do tell me that it's worse than a

837
00:36:18.840 --> 00:36:19.800
quarry falling on you.

838
00:36:19.860 --> 00:36:22.440
Actually, as a child, I thought the quarry thing was fine.

839
00:36:22.500 --> 00:36:26.400
You know, I've never even noticed that there's a digital effects

840
00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:27.539
option on everything.

841
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:29.940
No, the lasers, like the lasers are really good.

842
00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:32.699
The crushing Santaran ship is much, much better.

843
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:36.539
Um, I mean, given that the original crashings on tar and shit was

844
00:36:36.539 --> 00:36:38.699
a front tax, your projected tennis ball on a stick.

845
00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:40.679
Which was cut out.

846
00:36:40.739 --> 00:36:42.539
You just get the flashing light.

847
00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:44.159
Even they said, no, you can't use that.

848
00:36:44.219 --> 00:36:46.199
You know, when you get that white thing, they did, that was

849
00:36:46.199 --> 00:36:47.400
actually done as an optical.

850
00:36:47.460 --> 00:36:49.739
But the tennis ball wasn't used because it was so bad.

851
00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:52.260
Right?

852
00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:52.619
Okay.

853
00:36:52.679 --> 00:36:56.159
I thought that was the tennis. white thing and you just see the

854
00:36:56.159 --> 00:36:57.119
glow from under the window.

855
00:36:57.179 --> 00:36:57.719
Remember that?

856
00:36:57.780 --> 00:36:59.219
Again, it's all fine.

857
00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:00.960
I don't mind that it's ropey.

858
00:37:01.019 --> 00:37:04.380
It has a certain sense of being, it almost feels like a television

859
00:37:04.380 --> 00:37:05.639
drama from the 50s.

860
00:37:05.699 --> 00:37:08.159
It's not very affects heavy in any case.

861
00:37:08.219 --> 00:37:09.179
Not at all.

862
00:37:09.239 --> 00:37:13.380
You know, it links sort of appearing as a blue, ethereal

863
00:37:13.380 --> 00:37:15.420
apparition, the stairs in episode one.

864
00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:16.019
That's very good.

865
00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:17.699
That scared me as a kid.

866
00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:18.300
Yes.

867
00:37:18.300 --> 00:37:20.579
Lighting and roll back and mix, isn't it?

868
00:37:20.639 --> 00:37:22.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah. and yet it's very effective.

869
00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:25.860
So, you know, it's certainly special effects wise, it's not all

870
00:37:25.860 --> 00:37:26.039
bad.

871
00:37:26.099 --> 00:37:29.940
I think for Barry, it hurt the most because Doctor Who's special

872
00:37:29.940 --> 00:37:34.079
effects had improved so much under his tenure because he pushed

873
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:36.719
and pushed and pushed for the latest technology.

874
00:37:36.780 --> 00:37:37.500
And yeah, you know what?

875
00:37:37.559 --> 00:37:42.960
didn't always work, but it did always look interesting at the very

876
00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:43.320
least.

877
00:37:43.380 --> 00:37:48.059
Speaking of special effects on the up, we're heading back to

878
00:37:48.059 --> 00:37:48.960
London now.

879
00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:52.619
For some sort of invasion by dinosaur.

880
00:38:13.739 --> 00:38:15.539
Guess where we are.

881
00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:18.780
London, right next door to Wimbleton Common.

882
00:38:18.840 --> 00:38:22.679
Yes, filming illegally, filming illegally.

883
00:38:22.739 --> 00:38:24.840
Gorilla style stunt filming.

884
00:38:24.900 --> 00:38:25.619
It's amazing.

885
00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:28.260
And the 1st 6 minutes of episode one of Invasion.

886
00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:30.239
Invasible dinosaurs all on film.

887
00:38:30.300 --> 00:38:31.320
It's so good.

888
00:38:31.440 --> 00:38:34.920
And it feels like Amiga Man or Saul and Green or any of those

889
00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:38.099
dystopian pictures that are coming out around this time of a

890
00:38:38.099 --> 00:38:39.780
deserted lunch and you think, this is great.

891
00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:41.280
It's eerie, it's darker.

892
00:38:41.340 --> 00:38:44.940
And isn't it lovely that, as we've noticed later on in the season

893
00:38:44.940 --> 00:38:48.780
when we start to see the doctors' hairdressing equipment, the

894
00:38:48.780 --> 00:38:50.760
Cyril Shaps, that he's got one in the TARDIS?

895
00:38:50.940 --> 00:38:52.920
Because Sarah steps out with an entirely new bob.

896
00:38:52.980 --> 00:38:54.539
Lovely Bob, little Bob.

897
00:38:54.599 --> 00:38:58.380
And the doctor's hair again has become somewhat more than it was

898
00:38:58.380 --> 00:38:59.460
in the previous story.

899
00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:01.980
So obviously they've had more than just a couple of hours in the

900
00:39:01.980 --> 00:39:03.000
Tardis getting back here.

901
00:39:03.059 --> 00:39:06.539
And Barry was not impressed with Sarah's haircut.

902
00:39:06.659 --> 00:39:08.519
So they tried to style it to look as close.

903
00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:10.980
I thought that was the entire explanation for the equipment you

904
00:39:10.980 --> 00:39:12.719
see in Spelanet, the spiders later on.

905
00:39:12.780 --> 00:39:16.920
But look, this really does start off so well and all guns are

906
00:39:16.920 --> 00:39:18.719
blazing and raise your pints too.

907
00:39:18.780 --> 00:39:22.380
Dame Paddy Russell because she's bloody gorgeous in this, isn't

908
00:39:22.380 --> 00:39:22.559
she?

909
00:39:22.619 --> 00:39:23.460
She's such a good director.

910
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:25.559
Do you know what the last thing she directed was?

911
00:39:25.619 --> 00:39:26.340
Tell us.

912
00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:28.019
The massacre.

913
00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:30.539
That's very interesting.

914
00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:35.400
You know why those shots look so good at the London thing?

915
00:39:35.460 --> 00:39:39.420
She went out and got a guy called Tony Lego.

916
00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:44.159
Now, Tony Lego was renowned in the BBC for his documentary

917
00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:47.579
handheld camera work, the Doco work, and he was really hard to

918
00:39:47.579 --> 00:39:47.880
get.

919
00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:49.199
She had to book in months ahead.

920
00:39:49.260 --> 00:39:50.820
As soon as she knew she had this show.

921
00:39:50.880 --> 00:39:54.480
She booked Tony Lego, but the BBC were very respectful of his

922
00:39:54.480 --> 00:40:00.480
camera work knowing how good he'd been on the massacre. they are

923
00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:00.900
the notes.

924
00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:03.119
They are the show notes.

925
00:40:03.239 --> 00:40:06.480
So yes, the massacre was still widely held as being a terrific

926
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:07.800
point in Doctor Who.

927
00:40:07.860 --> 00:40:09.539
Within the BBC.

928
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:11.880
Even if it wasn't held itself.

929
00:40:11.940 --> 00:40:15.719
But yeah, it starts off looking so so gorgeous.

930
00:40:15.780 --> 00:40:17.159
So let's just get it out of the way now.

931
00:40:17.219 --> 00:40:18.719
Do you know?

932
00:40:18.780 --> 00:40:20.099
However, the dinosaurs.

933
00:40:20.159 --> 00:40:21.539
They're not there yet.

934
00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:25.679
What about the imperfectly colorised nature of London?

935
00:40:25.739 --> 00:40:28.739
They return to an imperfectly colorised version.

936
00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:32.400
Okay, of course, because the same colour recovery technology that

937
00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:34.739
worked so well on Planet Daleks did work.

938
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:38.159
Invasion of the Dinosaurs, episode one simply called Invasion

939
00:40:38.219 --> 00:40:39.900
to...

940
00:40:39.960 --> 00:40:42.780
Yeah, on Paddy Russell's request, even though, as everyone

941
00:40:42.780 --> 00:40:45.119
including Barry, let's point it out, hang on, they've actually

942
00:40:45.119 --> 00:40:48.119
been in the radio times and everybody knows that dinosaur.

943
00:40:48.179 --> 00:40:48.599
Yeah.

944
00:40:48.659 --> 00:40:49.980
Malcolm Hook.

945
00:40:50.039 --> 00:40:51.780
First of all, he wasn't impressed that he had to do a story with

946
00:40:51.780 --> 00:40:52.440
dinosaurs.

947
00:40:52.500 --> 00:40:54.119
His original story didn't have dinosaurs.

948
00:40:54.179 --> 00:40:55.019
No, it didn't.

949
00:40:55.079 --> 00:40:58.500
It was actually more of an alien invasion, alien alien.

950
00:40:58.559 --> 00:41:00.239
As aliens brought back Hitler.

951
00:41:00.300 --> 00:41:01.019
It was Danger Five.

952
00:41:01.079 --> 00:41:04.860
It was and deserted London again, but it would have been much more

953
00:41:04.860 --> 00:41:08.159
like an episode of Department S, which is what they were actually

954
00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:11.760
pitching forward this one with a really uncanny opening scene.

955
00:41:11.820 --> 00:41:15.539
Kind of like late Diner Rig Avengers or Tyra King Avengers

956
00:41:15.539 --> 00:41:17.639
something very odd going on in a terri nation mould.

957
00:41:17.639 --> 00:41:20.940
And then clicking in with the rest of it.

958
00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:24.059
So you're saying that Malcolm Hulk is objecting to writing a story

959
00:41:24.059 --> 00:41:25.380
about giant lizards.

960
00:41:26.219 --> 00:41:30.420
It's like, it's kind of time cast, he doesn't want to do any more

961
00:41:30.420 --> 00:41:31.260
giant lizards.

962
00:41:31.320 --> 00:41:32.280
They're played.

963
00:41:32.340 --> 00:41:33.000
Do you know what I mean?

964
00:41:33.059 --> 00:41:37.500
So it is politics and giant lizards, and that's always his his

965
00:41:37.500 --> 00:41:39.360
obsession every every gear.

966
00:41:39.420 --> 00:41:43.739
They wheeling back in to do some giant lizards and politics.

967
00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:44.880
And I think he does a great job.

968
00:41:44.940 --> 00:41:45.900
Do you know what I mean?

969
00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:48.360
The politics in this story is amazing.

970
00:41:48.420 --> 00:41:50.760
And that's what's left over from the original story and the

971
00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:52.320
character of Professor Whittaker.

972
00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:54.900
It's a lovely homage, isn't it?

973
00:41:55.139 --> 00:41:57.719
That's Whittaker in the novel.

974
00:41:57.780 --> 00:41:59.519
One of the great things about this story.

975
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:00.659
The story is the novel.

976
00:42:00.780 --> 00:42:04.619
You've gone to my go-to for this, because I, of course, in the 70s

977
00:42:04.619 --> 00:42:07.320
I should mention to Brendan, this is one of the pert ways, even

978
00:42:07.320 --> 00:42:10.619
though we had pertly stories all throughout in the early 80s.

979
00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:12.900
This was one of the many that we just never got to see.

980
00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:17.340
Yeah, and then in the 80s, when I was watching Doctor Who, It was

981
00:42:17.340 --> 00:42:22.440
always sold as a five-part story with part 2 retitled episode one

982
00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:23.219
and so on.

983
00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:25.440
And so for me as a kid.

984
00:42:25.500 --> 00:42:28.139
It was actually quite amazing coming into this story and the

985
00:42:28.139 --> 00:42:31.199
doctor and Sarah are already chained up in the, what the hell has

986
00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:31.739
gone on?

987
00:42:31.800 --> 00:42:35.340
And yeah, I don't think I actually saw the 1st episode until it

988
00:42:35.340 --> 00:42:36.599
came out on DVD.

989
00:42:36.659 --> 00:42:40.380
And on the DVD, you actually have to specially select the colour

990
00:42:40.380 --> 00:42:42.059
version. and it's not very good.

991
00:42:42.119 --> 00:42:44.099
And yeah, well, it's okay.

992
00:42:44.159 --> 00:42:49.019
It's not, I was expecting it to be quite bad when they said that

993
00:42:49.019 --> 00:42:53.760
they didn't put it on as the default because they weren't 100

994
00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:54.420
happy with it.

995
00:42:54.480 --> 00:42:57.900
So when I put it on, I'm like, okay, yeah, I can see, especially

996
00:42:57.900 --> 00:43:00.119
most of the problems seem to be in the 1st 5 minutes and then it

997
00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:00.840
settles down a bit.

998
00:43:00.900 --> 00:43:02.760
Or you get used to it.

999
00:43:02.820 --> 00:43:03.539
Or you get used to it.

1000
00:43:03.659 --> 00:43:06.119
We're talking about the story or are we trying?

1001
00:43:06.179 --> 00:43:10.559
So what happens is the version, oh, you won't remember this, but

1002
00:43:10.559 --> 00:43:13.679
it was 1st broadcast in that five-part version in Australia, I

1003
00:43:13.679 --> 00:43:14.460
think, in...

1004
00:43:14.460 --> 00:43:16.079
Well, that's the version I had as a child.

1005
00:43:16.139 --> 00:43:16.380
Yeah.

1006
00:43:16.440 --> 00:43:19.260
It was shown in the 70s, but we were very, very young.

1007
00:43:19.320 --> 00:43:20.219
I don't remember.

1008
00:43:20.280 --> 00:43:23.340
Well, episode one wasn't returned to the archives until 83

1009
00:43:23.340 --> 00:43:23.760
apparently.

1010
00:43:23.820 --> 00:43:25.199
You know the story with this one?

1011
00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:27.659
I don't think that's true.

1012
00:43:27.719 --> 00:43:28.380
I think it's a myth.

1013
00:43:28.440 --> 00:43:29.880
Do you mean the story where they thought...

1014
00:43:29.940 --> 00:43:30.840
There are 2 stories, yeah.

1015
00:43:30.900 --> 00:43:33.539
That it was one of the 1st to be shelved.

1016
00:43:33.599 --> 00:43:38.219
It was actually, this one was scheduled to be scrapped, as it

1017
00:43:38.219 --> 00:43:39.960
turns out by Mr. Litz himself.

1018
00:43:40.019 --> 00:43:43.019
He was the one who put the rubber stamp on it in late 74 before

1019
00:43:43.019 --> 00:43:45.480
the perpi season had even, you know, where they were do Pamela and

1020
00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:47.400
Ash was doing the scrapping of a lot of 60s stories.

1021
00:43:47.460 --> 00:43:51.119
And the myth has got about that, oh, it was called invasion, and

1022
00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:53.280
that's why, no, it's actually a mistake.

1023
00:43:53.340 --> 00:43:58.619
The reason the later episodes, episode 2 and on, in the archive is

1024
00:43:58.619 --> 00:44:01.079
because they'd made a mistake and just scrapped the 1st episode

1025
00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:04.260
they were meant to scrap all of them, and it was under Barry Letts

1026
00:44:04.260 --> 00:44:07.079
the hest, because he couldn't bear it, and it's because of the

1027
00:44:07.079 --> 00:44:07.739
dinosaur stuff.

1028
00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:09.659
You know, I think that is a bit more believable.

1029
00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:13.199
And I think Malcolm Hawke is very clever in that Barry Letts was

1030
00:44:13.199 --> 00:44:15.780
so confident they could do dinosaurs because the people behind the

1031
00:44:15.780 --> 00:44:18.659
drash eggs recommended this puppeteer who said, oh yeah, I can do

1032
00:44:18.659 --> 00:44:19.320
you dinosaurs.

1033
00:44:19.380 --> 00:44:22.980
I think Malcolm Hawk was a lot cleverer and thought, you know what

1034
00:44:22.980 --> 00:44:25.320
I don't think they can do dinosaurs and doctors budget.

1035
00:44:25.380 --> 00:44:29.039
So he pushes them right to the background with the unfortunate

1036
00:44:29.039 --> 00:44:33.239
exception of, I think, 3 out of 5 cliffhangers involving the T-Rex

1037
00:44:33.300 --> 00:44:37.380
jump in for no reason, including the famous snogging scene when

1038
00:44:37.380 --> 00:44:39.780
the T-Rex has a passion of brontosaurus.

1039
00:44:39.840 --> 00:44:43.920
It's John Molineau has beautifully done with Serge Gainsborough's

1040
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:46.260
Jeturn, the background being sung.

1041
00:44:46.320 --> 00:44:47.280
Have you seen that one?

1042
00:44:47.340 --> 00:44:47.880
on YouTube.

1043
00:44:47.940 --> 00:44:49.679
I have that I can imagine. pretty fantastic.

1044
00:44:49.739 --> 00:44:55.139
But that being said, you know, I think like most kids, I loved

1045
00:44:55.139 --> 00:44:57.539
dinosaurs when I was a young boy watching this.

1046
00:44:57.599 --> 00:45:00.360
And I have to say the only dinosaur that leaves me really

1047
00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:01.679
disappointed is the T-Rex.

1048
00:45:01.739 --> 00:45:03.719
I think the brontosaurus is actually really good.

1049
00:45:03.780 --> 00:45:06.900
I really like the stegosaurus and the triceratops.

1050
00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:08.219
What about the pterodactyl?

1051
00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:09.420
The pterodactyl.

1052
00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:11.760
No, it's plantently that.

1053
00:45:11.820 --> 00:45:12.780
It's a Muppet.

1054
00:45:12.840 --> 00:45:14.400
It's literally a Muppet.

1055
00:45:14.460 --> 00:45:17.940
When it's flying at them in the warehouse in episode one.

1056
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:21.179
What everyone says is that this is, you know, quite a good, good

1057
00:45:21.179 --> 00:45:23.400
story letdown by woeful special effects.

1058
00:45:23.460 --> 00:45:28.679
But I actually found myself just smiling my face off every time

1059
00:45:28.679 --> 00:45:30.900
the dinosaurs came on screen this time.

1060
00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:33.000
I had such fun watching it.

1061
00:45:33.059 --> 00:45:34.440
They are really terrible.

1062
00:45:34.500 --> 00:45:37.260
And like the miniatures are also terrible.

1063
00:45:37.320 --> 00:45:40.139
Like, it's not just the dinosaurs, but the backgrounds against

1064
00:45:40.139 --> 00:45:41.460
which they appear.

1065
00:45:41.460 --> 00:45:45.599
It's always overcast in the location shoot, but the sky is

1066
00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:47.880
brilliantly blue in all of the model scenes.

1067
00:45:47.940 --> 00:45:52.380
You know, they look really, really terrible, but it's such fun.

1068
00:45:52.440 --> 00:45:53.579
It's so enjoyable.

1069
00:45:54.119 --> 00:45:54.840
Yeah, it really is.

1070
00:45:54.900 --> 00:45:59.760
And in fact, the hand puppet that they do, the T-Rex close-ups orb

1071
00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:02.219
the one with the opening and closing eye. it's completely

1072
00:46:02.219 --> 00:46:05.099
different It doesn't the mouth doesn't open, does it?

1073
00:46:05.159 --> 00:46:08.699
The mouth opens slightly, but also, like, the full size version

1074
00:46:08.699 --> 00:46:13.320
has this sort of weird pan our chocolat kind of shaped nostrils

1075
00:46:13.320 --> 00:46:15.539
whereas whereas the hand puppet doesn't.

1076
00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:16.800
The hand puppet looks great.

1077
00:46:16.860 --> 00:46:21.840
And in fact, when Toho Studios in Japan brought back Godzilla 10

1078
00:46:21.840 --> 00:46:23.219
years later in 1984.

1079
00:46:24.119 --> 00:46:27.059
That's how, for the 1st time, they decided to do Godzilla's

1080
00:46:27.059 --> 00:46:27.900
spatial expressions.

1081
00:46:27.960 --> 00:46:30.179
Rather than just do a close-up of the suit, they developed a

1082
00:46:30.179 --> 00:46:32.099
puppet, in this case, an animatronic.

1083
00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:35.400
So, you know, Dr. Moon wasn't into the game.

1084
00:46:35.460 --> 00:46:39.059
Clifford Cully, who was in charge of, was it Westbury design and

1085
00:46:39.059 --> 00:46:42.360
optical, and they were franchised to do the effects, and they'd

1086
00:46:42.360 --> 00:46:43.559
actually done film effects.

1087
00:46:43.619 --> 00:46:46.260
Not on that Harry, Harry House online, but that's what it was

1088
00:46:46.260 --> 00:46:47.579
pitched at stop motion.

1089
00:46:47.639 --> 00:46:49.739
But the production team gave them no time.

1090
00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:51.840
They only had a couple of weeks to do these models.

1091
00:46:51.900 --> 00:46:54.239
And you know how long it takes us to make these things, let alone

1092
00:46:54.239 --> 00:46:55.380
animate them.

1093
00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:56.219
He said, that's it.

1094
00:46:56.280 --> 00:46:57.599
There's got to be rod and string.

1095
00:46:57.719 --> 00:46:59.699
And everyone was starting to get very nervous when they realised

1096
00:46:59.699 --> 00:46:59.880
that.

1097
00:46:59.940 --> 00:47:03.659
So when they're lying down in the street shots, they don't look

1098
00:47:03.659 --> 00:47:04.619
okay.

1099
00:47:04.679 --> 00:47:06.420
But 973, 74.

1100
00:47:06.599 --> 00:47:07.679
They don't look all that bad.

1101
00:47:07.739 --> 00:47:08.639
It's when they have to move.

1102
00:47:08.699 --> 00:47:10.380
The problem is also.

1103
00:47:10.440 --> 00:47:11.880
They look like they're being dragged by the tail.

1104
00:47:11.940 --> 00:47:12.900
Well, because they are.

1105
00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:17.039
But also the problem is there was they used a really senior and

1106
00:47:17.039 --> 00:47:18.239
quite well known in the industry.

1107
00:47:18.300 --> 00:47:20.280
Our model makers, Rodney Fuller.

1108
00:47:20.340 --> 00:47:23.519
He'd led design before on these sorts of pictures. and he went on

1109
00:47:23.519 --> 00:47:26.159
to do, one of our dinosaurs is missing, if you remember that, as a

1110
00:47:26.159 --> 00:47:26.460
period.

1111
00:47:26.940 --> 00:47:30.420
It's got pretty much everyone, including pertwheat in it.

1112
00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:31.920
And it was only made a few months after this.

1113
00:47:31.980 --> 00:47:34.920
So Pertz went straight from Planet of the Spiders to form one of

1114
00:47:34.920 --> 00:47:35.940
our dinosaurs is missing.

1115
00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:38.699
I think I had the gaff view master version of it.

1116
00:47:38.760 --> 00:47:42.360
Let's hunt that out on YouTube at the end of the week and they're

1117
00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:42.719
all up there.

1118
00:47:42.780 --> 00:47:45.599
So look, the problems with actually, if you want to get really

1119
00:47:45.599 --> 00:47:48.780
techy and fabby about this is the cables that Rod Fuller put in

1120
00:47:48.780 --> 00:47:51.179
went up through the feet, so you couldn't get them to walk.

1121
00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:52.559
He didn't do it properly.

1122
00:47:52.619 --> 00:47:54.780
He thought it was going to be done as a stop motion.

1123
00:47:54.840 --> 00:47:57.719
So they were made to be stop motion puppets, not to be rotten

1124
00:47:57.719 --> 00:47:58.320
strings.

1125
00:47:58.380 --> 00:47:59.880
So you're not getting exactly.

1126
00:47:59.940 --> 00:48:02.280
I just have to defend the special effects, boys, because it's my

1127
00:48:02.280 --> 00:48:03.000
place.

1128
00:48:03.059 --> 00:48:06.539
They had done lots of rod and string puppets during the purchase.

1129
00:48:06.599 --> 00:48:08.639
Yes, and they're also successful, weren't they?

1130
00:48:08.760 --> 00:48:09.420
It's time.

1131
00:48:09.480 --> 00:48:11.280
Yeah, I love the manga.

1132
00:48:11.340 --> 00:48:13.679
The spiders later this year. are beautiful.

1133
00:48:13.739 --> 00:48:16.139
Some of my favourite puppets of all time on Doctor Who, that one.

1134
00:48:16.199 --> 00:48:17.760
I think you're right, Richard.

1135
00:48:17.820 --> 00:48:19.440
We've said about enough about the monsters.

1136
00:48:19.500 --> 00:48:20.039
Let's go.

1137
00:48:20.099 --> 00:48:20.820
Do you know what the point is?

1138
00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:22.619
Everyone blames the monsters.

1139
00:48:22.679 --> 00:48:24.300
It's actually not the monsters in this.

1140
00:48:24.360 --> 00:48:26.880
It's the bloody flat doll narrative.

1141
00:48:26.940 --> 00:48:29.820
There's not a lot in this to sustain 6 episodes.

1142
00:48:29.880 --> 00:48:31.980
I think this is a wonderful stroke.

1143
00:48:32.099 --> 00:48:34.800
Maybe because runabout rescue get lost, right?

1144
00:48:34.860 --> 00:48:38.280
But the whole it's using every... have we used trope here?

1145
00:48:38.340 --> 00:48:40.980
Every time, including the unit turning against the doctor.

1146
00:48:41.039 --> 00:48:44.280
It's kind of like an episode of Callen with, you know, shiny suit

1147
00:48:44.340 --> 00:48:48.480
5 is so boring where it hurts me. like he's in the middle of

1148
00:48:48.480 --> 00:48:51.119
London, but in a forest in the middle of London, I don't quite

1149
00:48:51.119 --> 00:48:52.139
know what's going on there.

1150
00:48:52.199 --> 00:48:56.760
Like he's hiding from unit Jeeps and things and it just goes on

1151
00:48:56.760 --> 00:48:57.239
forever.

1152
00:48:57.300 --> 00:48:58.619
I mean, it really does.

1153
00:48:58.679 --> 00:49:01.079
Yeah, but I think this comes back to something you were saying

1154
00:49:01.079 --> 00:49:03.840
earlier, Richard, which is...

1155
00:49:03.840 --> 00:49:07.619
Last year was a year long 10th anniversary party for Doctor

1156
00:49:07.619 --> 00:49:08.159
Who's.

1157
00:49:08.219 --> 00:49:10.380
Every story had some kind of throwback.

1158
00:49:10.440 --> 00:49:11.280
Yeah.

1159
00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:15.360
This year is, it's all about Pertwee's greatest hits.

1160
00:49:15.420 --> 00:49:17.880
So we get a monster invasion.

1161
00:49:17.940 --> 00:49:20.039
We get unit versus the regular army.

1162
00:49:20.099 --> 00:49:21.480
We get universe as the doctor.

1163
00:49:21.539 --> 00:49:23.159
We get along car chase.

1164
00:49:23.219 --> 00:49:25.019
We get a mad scientist.

1165
00:49:25.019 --> 00:49:29.460
And we also get the beginning of every story this season has

1166
00:49:29.460 --> 00:49:32.760
multiple guest cast members from earlier in the pert.

1167
00:49:32.820 --> 00:49:34.559
Yeah, the teams should be trying to make it comfortable for

1168
00:49:34.559 --> 00:49:35.099
Pertz.

1169
00:49:35.159 --> 00:49:37.739
We haven't talked about that yet by using actors he's worked with

1170
00:49:37.739 --> 00:49:38.099
before.

1171
00:49:38.159 --> 00:49:41.820
So of course, we've got Peter Miles back as Professor David

1172
00:49:41.820 --> 00:49:43.079
Whittaker, possibly.

1173
00:49:43.139 --> 00:49:43.559
Yes.

1174
00:49:43.559 --> 00:49:48.179
We all, we additionally have another guest cast member who was in

1175
00:49:48.179 --> 00:49:50.699
a previous per week. hoping it's Carmen Silvera.

1176
00:49:50.760 --> 00:49:54.239
And Carmen Silvera was in a Hartnell story, but there's actually

1177
00:49:54.239 --> 00:49:54.900
some...

1178
00:49:54.900 --> 00:49:55.860
What was she in name?

1179
00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:57.420
Yeah, she was in celestial twin.

1180
00:49:57.480 --> 00:49:58.380
Our favourite.

1181
00:49:58.440 --> 00:49:59.519
So yeah, we've all forgotten it.

1182
00:49:59.579 --> 00:50:01.920
But there's actually someone, there's actually someone in this

1183
00:50:01.920 --> 00:50:03.719
story who was in the Siburians.

1184
00:50:04.380 --> 00:50:06.659
Apart from Professor.

1185
00:50:06.719 --> 00:50:08.460
Apart from Professor Whitaker.

1186
00:50:08.519 --> 00:50:14.519
In episode one, one of the guards at the temporary prism, the

1187
00:50:14.519 --> 00:50:18.539
doctor and Sarah are taken to, is Dave Carter, who played the old

1188
00:50:18.539 --> 00:50:19.739
Silurian.

1189
00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:20.219
Really?

1190
00:50:20.219 --> 00:50:22.800
So we have 2 not only today.

1191
00:50:22.860 --> 00:50:23.460
I know.

1192
00:50:23.519 --> 00:50:24.900
He moisturised.

1193
00:50:24.960 --> 00:50:28.920
We have not only 2 returning pertly guest actors, we have 2

1194
00:50:28.920 --> 00:50:31.800
returning guest actors from the same story. wonderful.

1195
00:50:31.860 --> 00:50:35.400
We have Helio as Butler.

1196
00:50:35.460 --> 00:50:36.420
Yes, that's right.

1197
00:50:36.480 --> 00:50:37.199
Yeah, we do.

1198
00:50:37.260 --> 00:50:43.079
We have Martin Jarvis, who it turns out only took the role for his

1199
00:50:43.079 --> 00:50:46.260
children because by this time he was actually quite a big name

1200
00:50:46.260 --> 00:50:46.860
actor.

1201
00:50:46.980 --> 00:50:48.179
He was doing just William.

1202
00:50:48.239 --> 00:50:49.440
He was doing lots of television.

1203
00:50:49.500 --> 00:50:51.300
Actually, was he here ago?

1204
00:50:51.360 --> 00:50:52.139
Did I?

1205
00:50:52.199 --> 00:50:53.639
Yes, he was Captain Hilliard.

1206
00:50:53.699 --> 00:50:56.159
So it was someone famous as Zabi in that story?

1207
00:50:56.280 --> 00:50:58.019
Well, he wasn't famous at that point.

1208
00:50:58.079 --> 00:50:58.800
Oh, okay.

1209
00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:01.800
He had since become quite a big name, and he agreed to do it

1210
00:51:01.800 --> 00:51:06.539
because his children love Doctor Who, and he felt that, you know

1211
00:51:06.539 --> 00:51:08.460
he couldn't turn it down even if it was a small part.

1212
00:51:08.519 --> 00:51:12.480
But, you know, he did enjoy himself, but usually he wouldn't have

1213
00:51:12.480 --> 00:51:13.619
been playing such a small part.

1214
00:51:13.679 --> 00:51:18.119
He actually reads the novelisation and he does a hilarious Martin

1215
00:51:18.119 --> 00:51:19.800
Jarvis impersonation.

1216
00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:21.780
He's reading Butler's lines.

1217
00:51:21.840 --> 00:51:22.679
It's really good.

1218
00:51:22.739 --> 00:51:23.940
He does it very gruff.

1219
00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:29.159
Can I just throw some praise out there for the scene with Pertwi

1220
00:51:29.159 --> 00:51:31.260
at the military tribunal?

1221
00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:32.940
Now 1st of all, it's being silly.

1222
00:51:33.000 --> 00:51:33.900
He's being silly.

1223
00:51:33.960 --> 00:51:39.960
It's Malcolm Hook reusing a scene he wrote for the war games with

1224
00:51:39.960 --> 00:51:42.960
the military tribunal, but turning it into a comedy, rather than

1225
00:51:42.960 --> 00:51:43.619
something dramatic.

1226
00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:48.599
And what I love here is it is showing the evolution of the

1227
00:51:48.599 --> 00:51:50.460
character of Pertwee's doctor.

1228
00:51:50.519 --> 00:51:55.739
He actually tries to go along and play by the rules and be nice to

1229
00:51:55.739 --> 00:51:58.139
them and respect the military for what they're doing.

1230
00:51:58.199 --> 00:52:00.719
And then when they won't listen to him, he's like, right, now

1231
00:52:00.719 --> 00:52:01.559
we'll get out of here.

1232
00:52:01.679 --> 00:52:04.679
Well, he does the, how shall I stand?

1233
00:52:04.739 --> 00:52:05.880
Is this my better side?

1234
00:52:05.940 --> 00:52:07.019
Like, he does lots of things.

1235
00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:09.179
How about one of the 2 of us?

1236
00:52:10.139 --> 00:52:12.300
They're very cruel to him, though.

1237
00:52:12.360 --> 00:52:14.880
I think by this time everyone was having a bit of sport with Pertz

1238
00:52:14.880 --> 00:52:17.219
and I think Pertz was far too aware of it, which is why you're

1239
00:52:17.219 --> 00:52:19.920
going to appear to be so languid as to actually be doing a

1240
00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:21.480
different television show during this one.

1241
00:52:21.539 --> 00:52:23.639
Have you noticed some of the lines they're thrown in?

1242
00:52:23.699 --> 00:52:26.039
It's a stegosaurus, a splendid specimen.

1243
00:52:26.099 --> 00:52:28.860
You're trying saying that as John Pertweed.

1244
00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:35.400
There are plenty of others. down here too.

1245
00:52:35.460 --> 00:52:36.059
Keep going.

1246
00:52:36.179 --> 00:52:40.980
And oh, I forgot to mention last story with Walsh Watch, of course

1247
00:52:40.980 --> 00:52:45.420
Terry Walsh swung across the room on the chandelier in Time

1248
00:52:45.420 --> 00:52:46.920
Warrior in this.

1249
00:52:46.980 --> 00:52:50.400
He not only appears occasionally, it's pert we stunt double.

1250
00:52:50.460 --> 00:52:54.599
But in the 1st episode, the 2 looters who attacked John Pertwee

1251
00:52:54.599 --> 00:52:57.780
when they attacked John Pertwee, both of them are Terry Walsh.

1252
00:52:57.840 --> 00:52:58.320
Wow.

1253
00:52:58.320 --> 00:53:01.679
One after the other at all. spectacular.

1254
00:53:01.739 --> 00:53:06.059
And yet, driving through the door when the doctor and Sarah drive

1255
00:53:06.059 --> 00:53:07.320
through the door in the truck.

1256
00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:10.019
Frame by frame, it's pertly.

1257
00:53:10.079 --> 00:53:14.159
Kurt, we is driving through that door himself and Liz Slayton is

1258
00:53:14.159 --> 00:53:15.239
holding on for dinner.

1259
00:53:15.300 --> 00:53:18.539
It's like, okay, then. 3 weeks ago.

1260
00:53:18.900 --> 00:53:22.980
As you would expect from a Malcolm Hawkes group. just lots of

1261
00:53:22.980 --> 00:53:24.719
lovely character moments.

1262
00:53:24.780 --> 00:53:29.820
Benton in the 1st episode is using his brain by suggesting there's

1263
00:53:29.820 --> 00:53:34.440
some connection between power and the dinosaurs, which the brig

1264
00:53:34.440 --> 00:53:36.659
kind of dismisses and says, oh, it doesn't really matter.

1265
00:53:36.780 --> 00:53:38.519
Yeah, it gets a lot of dismissal on this one.

1266
00:53:38.579 --> 00:53:42.000
Did you notice that is it in that scene when pertly looks

1267
00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:45.000
supposedly at the brigadier, but he's actually staring right at

1268
00:53:45.000 --> 00:53:48.539
John Levine when he says, don't be ridiculous, but brigadier, the

1269
00:53:48.539 --> 00:53:50.699
brontosaurus is large, placid, and stupid.

1270
00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:52.380
Yes, to a bit more of that in.

1271
00:53:52.440 --> 00:53:56.159
And John Levine complained about it to the production folk, in a

1272
00:53:56.159 --> 00:53:57.420
jokey way at the end of that shot.

1273
00:53:57.480 --> 00:53:58.739
He was looking at me.

1274
00:53:58.860 --> 00:54:04.139
You'll notice it turns up in robot. not too far off.

1275
00:54:04.199 --> 00:54:08.820
You know, it's a wonderful story for both the unit supporting

1276
00:54:08.820 --> 00:54:09.179
cast.

1277
00:54:09.239 --> 00:54:11.039
It's not such a great story for Nick.

1278
00:54:11.099 --> 00:54:13.920
I mean, Nick just he just gets to be the brig.

1279
00:54:13.980 --> 00:54:17.340
But it's a great story for Richard Franklin. come back to that in

1280
00:54:17.340 --> 00:54:17.519
a moment.

1281
00:54:17.579 --> 00:54:19.980
It's a good one for Richard, and what a shock it must have been

1282
00:54:19.980 --> 00:54:23.280
for the young folk at the time to see a turncoat within the

1283
00:54:23.280 --> 00:54:23.639
ranks.

1284
00:54:23.699 --> 00:54:26.340
Our Mike. 4 years or something.

1285
00:54:26.460 --> 00:54:29.820
That Katie going off with a mushroom fancier must have really done

1286
00:54:29.820 --> 00:54:31.139
his head in, don't you think?

1287
00:54:31.199 --> 00:54:34.380
Yeah, seems to have just lost his way.

1288
00:54:34.440 --> 00:54:36.300
Who knows what he'll end up doing next?

1289
00:54:36.599 --> 00:54:40.619
But what's great about it is, again, being a Malcolm Folks

1290
00:54:40.619 --> 00:54:40.980
script.

1291
00:54:41.039 --> 00:54:45.480
He presents his argument in a sympathetic way where you might

1292
00:54:45.480 --> 00:54:48.719
think, you know, I don't agree with him there, but I understand

1293
00:54:48.719 --> 00:54:50.280
why the character has done this.

1294
00:54:50.340 --> 00:54:53.820
Because there's nothing worse in shows where characters betray

1295
00:54:53.820 --> 00:54:57.420
everyone and they don't have a good in character reason.

1296
00:54:57.480 --> 00:55:00.300
What's his good in character reason for it?

1297
00:55:00.360 --> 00:55:03.900
The last time we saw him, he got brainwashed by an organisation

1298
00:55:03.900 --> 00:55:05.099
trying to destroy the planet.

1299
00:55:05.159 --> 00:55:07.199
And the doctor brainwashes him back.

1300
00:55:07.260 --> 00:55:10.500
So he's been brainwashed twice, and then he's exposed to this idea

1301
00:55:10.500 --> 00:55:13.980
of not only will we not destroy the planet.

1302
00:55:14.039 --> 00:55:16.980
We'll make it so the planet has never been destroyed and damaged.

1303
00:55:17.039 --> 00:55:20.460
Even the doctor says, you know, it's a tempting idea, Mike.

1304
00:55:20.519 --> 00:55:25.860
I like the idea, but it does make him a fanatic.

1305
00:55:25.920 --> 00:55:29.639
Yeah, he's he's gone slightly mad, but he has also preserved his

1306
00:55:29.639 --> 00:55:30.000
models.

1307
00:55:30.059 --> 00:55:33.599
Whereas the other 4 people in this conspiracy are prepared to

1308
00:55:33.599 --> 00:55:33.900
kill.

1309
00:55:33.960 --> 00:55:37.380
Mike stands by the morals. you know, we can't kill people.

1310
00:55:37.440 --> 00:55:40.019
I don't think he's really thought head to the fact that they're

1311
00:55:40.019 --> 00:55:42.719
going to wipe out the 4000000000 people currently living on Earth

1312
00:55:42.719 --> 00:55:43.260
or whatever.

1313
00:55:43.320 --> 00:55:48.539
But for a series like Doctor Who to A, give a minor character, a

1314
00:55:48.539 --> 00:55:51.659
character arc like that, and B, to have it reasonably well thought

1315
00:55:51.659 --> 00:55:54.059
out is very, very impressive.

1316
00:55:54.179 --> 00:55:56.219
At this time, I think. you're right.

1317
00:55:56.280 --> 00:56:03.599
And even John Levine gets that great bit in episode 5 where the

1318
00:56:03.599 --> 00:56:07.139
doctor's been betrayed and he's been arrested and whatnot ad, the

1319
00:56:07.139 --> 00:56:08.519
doctors pick it out that it's Mike.

1320
00:56:08.579 --> 00:56:11.940
Benton doesn't want to believe it, but just believes it anyway and

1321
00:56:11.940 --> 00:56:14.039
says to the doctor, right, you better knock me out, Ben, hadn't

1322
00:56:14.039 --> 00:56:14.159
you?

1323
00:56:14.219 --> 00:56:18.360
And, you know, I actually, I actually get a bit of a lump in my

1324
00:56:18.360 --> 00:56:20.880
throat of that moment because it's such a beautifully loyal

1325
00:56:20.880 --> 00:56:21.840
moment.

1326
00:56:21.840 --> 00:56:26.039
Because Benton is such a quiet character in the background, but

1327
00:56:26.039 --> 00:56:29.639
he's always sort of stalwart and reliable.

1328
00:56:29.639 --> 00:56:33.480
And, you know, he's, you know, that old phrase of a good friend

1329
00:56:33.480 --> 00:56:35.760
will stand by you no matter what you do, a great friend will help

1330
00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:36.420
you hide the body.

1331
00:56:37.079 --> 00:56:40.619
Yeah, and that's that's the definition of Benton here.

1332
00:56:40.739 --> 00:56:41.519
He is a great friend.

1333
00:56:41.579 --> 00:56:44.400
And then the brig gets to do his bit of place yourself under

1334
00:56:44.400 --> 00:56:44.880
arrest.

1335
00:56:45.059 --> 00:56:48.179
Yeah, he's a great little piece.

1336
00:56:48.239 --> 00:56:51.239
He gets that great moment in episode 6 too, where he punches

1337
00:56:51.239 --> 00:56:53.940
General Finch, he knocks him out and sort of saves the world.

1338
00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:57.119
And then at the very end he says that sort of hilarious thing, oh

1339
00:56:57.119 --> 00:56:59.699
it's not every day that you get to punch a general on the nose and

1340
00:56:59.699 --> 00:57:00.420
everyone laughs.

1341
00:57:00.420 --> 00:57:03.539
And the brigadier turns to him and just goes, yes, well, don't

1342
00:57:03.539 --> 00:57:04.559
make a habit of it.

1343
00:57:04.619 --> 00:57:07.860
And that's even more funny when you consider the, when you

1344
00:57:07.860 --> 00:57:10.019
consider that a brigadier is a general.

1345
00:57:10.079 --> 00:57:11.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1346
00:57:11.579 --> 00:57:14.460
Can we talk about the conspiracy?

1347
00:57:14.519 --> 00:57:15.360
Yes.

1348
00:57:15.420 --> 00:57:19.619
Sandra for dings the conspiracy for a very good reason, which is

1349
00:57:19.619 --> 00:57:24.059
every single minor character introduced in the conspiracy.

1350
00:57:24.119 --> 00:57:26.880
Yeah, it really doesn't hold together well, does it when you're

1351
00:57:26.880 --> 00:57:27.059
watching it?

1352
00:57:27.119 --> 00:57:30.480
So there's no uncertainty, like for a political thriller, it

1353
00:57:30.480 --> 00:57:31.619
really doesn't quite work.

1354
00:57:31.679 --> 00:57:35.219
I mean, the other problem with it is, of course, it makes our

1355
00:57:35.219 --> 00:57:39.360
heroes look stupid because they're constantly explaining what they

1356
00:57:39.360 --> 00:57:44.280
intend to do next to someone who unbeknownst to them is in the

1357
00:57:44.280 --> 00:57:45.000
conspiracy.

1358
00:57:45.059 --> 00:57:45.960
Do you know what I mean?

1359
00:57:46.019 --> 00:57:47.400
Who then goes and thwarts them.

1360
00:57:47.460 --> 00:57:51.840
So I think that's a big problem with the conspiracy plot.

1361
00:57:51.900 --> 00:57:53.880
And then there's something else as well.

1362
00:57:53.940 --> 00:57:56.159
And I think it sort of bears close to analysis.

1363
00:57:56.219 --> 00:58:01.260
So, What we normally say when we're discussing this story is the

1364
00:58:01.260 --> 00:58:04.019
end of last year, the last time we had a political thriller, it

1365
00:58:04.019 --> 00:58:07.079
was the environmentalists were the good guys and big business were

1366
00:58:07.079 --> 00:58:07.739
the bad guys.

1367
00:58:07.800 --> 00:58:10.619
And here ostensibly it looks like we've got some crazy

1368
00:58:10.619 --> 00:58:13.320
environmentalists on our hands who are going to kill a whole bunch

1369
00:58:13.320 --> 00:58:16.019
of people and that's really interesting and why is Hulk doing

1370
00:58:16.019 --> 00:58:16.199
that?

1371
00:58:16.260 --> 00:58:21.360
But when we go to the spaceship and we meet Carmen Sylvia, it

1372
00:58:21.360 --> 00:58:25.559
becomes pretty clear that the conspirators, like that the people

1373
00:58:25.559 --> 00:58:30.179
on the spaceship aren't sort of left-wing environmentalists, but

1374
00:58:30.179 --> 00:58:33.840
they're conservative and moralistic.

1375
00:58:33.840 --> 00:58:38.699
And awfully reductive and they are the worst kind of

1376
00:58:38.699 --> 00:58:39.659
conservatives.

1377
00:58:39.719 --> 00:58:45.239
So they're almost religious in the sense that the things that Ruth

1378
00:58:45.239 --> 00:58:45.420
lives.

1379
00:58:45.480 --> 00:58:46.079
There's a cult.

1380
00:58:46.139 --> 00:58:46.860
Yeah, yeah.

1381
00:58:46.920 --> 00:58:49.920
She's against usury, which is just the Old Testament term for

1382
00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:51.059
charging money at interest.

1383
00:58:51.480 --> 00:58:53.639
And also a little bit. anti-Semitic.

1384
00:58:53.699 --> 00:58:56.940
The usury term was also a bit of a veiled term like celestial for

1385
00:58:56.940 --> 00:58:59.039
Asian usury, you know, point.

1386
00:58:59.039 --> 00:59:01.440
You know, we're not going to have any of those long-nosed, beak

1387
00:59:01.440 --> 00:59:04.920
nosed, long-shanked, orknosed people. hanging about.

1388
00:59:04.980 --> 00:59:08.639
She also talks about moral degradation and permissiveness and

1389
00:59:08.639 --> 00:59:09.719
stuff. as well.

1390
00:59:09.780 --> 00:59:12.599
Yeah, you know, looking going to be...

1391
00:59:12.659 --> 00:59:17.039
Yeah, you can't imagine she'd approve of Sarah. their trousers.

1392
00:59:17.099 --> 00:59:17.639
Yes, exactly.

1393
00:59:17.699 --> 00:59:23.099
And she's, because they, they'll lend so much more protection than

1394
00:59:23.099 --> 00:59:24.239
an easy access skirt.

1395
00:59:24.300 --> 00:59:25.679
I never quite got my head around back then.

1396
00:59:25.739 --> 00:59:26.519
No, it's crazy.

1397
00:59:26.579 --> 00:59:28.380
But she is a fascist.

1398
00:59:28.440 --> 00:59:30.840
You know, she's an out and out totalitarian and she will kill

1399
00:59:30.840 --> 00:59:31.500
Sarah.

1400
00:59:31.559 --> 00:59:35.099
Like, that's what Mark says to Sarah, you know, that Ruth will get

1401
00:59:35.099 --> 00:59:38.940
rid of her if she starts to spread dissent and things.

1402
00:59:39.059 --> 00:59:40.980
We can't have new ideas.

1403
00:59:41.039 --> 00:59:41.699
No.

1404
00:59:41.699 --> 00:59:45.960
She's talking, spoken of as contaminating other members of the

1405
00:59:45.960 --> 00:59:46.800
spaceship.

1406
00:59:46.860 --> 00:59:49.320
If you look back at the time period.

1407
00:59:49.380 --> 00:59:53.039
This is when, of course, the green movement was taking off in the

1408
00:59:53.039 --> 00:59:53.699
UK.

1409
00:59:53.880 --> 00:59:59.039
The green movement was originally a bunch of conservative

1410
00:59:59.039 --> 01:00:03.119
landowners who didn't want bad things to happen to their land.

1411
01:00:03.239 --> 01:00:08.340
So the green movement in the 70s in the United Kingdom was

1412
01:00:08.340 --> 01:00:14.159
actually very conservative and what we would today call right

1413
01:00:14.159 --> 01:00:14.579
wing.

1414
01:00:14.639 --> 01:00:21.239
Yeah, there's a documentary on the DVD hosted by Matthew Suite, the

1415
01:00:21.239 --> 01:00:22.920
British TV presenter and Doctor Who fan.

1416
01:00:22.980 --> 01:00:24.719
It's perhaps unsurprising.

1417
01:00:24.840 --> 01:00:29.219
And also Malcolm Hook has given all the colonists' biblical

1418
01:00:29.219 --> 01:00:29.460
names.

1419
01:00:29.519 --> 01:00:30.360
Yeah, yeah.

1420
01:00:30.780 --> 01:00:31.860
Rose and Adam.

1421
01:00:31.920 --> 01:00:33.059
Yeah, yeah.

1422
01:00:33.119 --> 01:00:33.599
Yeah.

1423
01:00:33.659 --> 01:00:35.699
I noticed it wasn't Adam and Eve.

1424
01:00:35.760 --> 01:00:37.139
Adam's kind of handsome isn't he?

1425
01:00:37.199 --> 01:00:39.659
You think he'd have been in Doctor before, but he never had.

1426
01:00:39.719 --> 01:00:42.179
He seems like he's in every 2nd or 3rd heart or he's just that

1427
01:00:42.179 --> 01:00:44.219
kind of actor, but no, he really hadn't been.

1428
01:00:44.280 --> 01:00:46.739
Sarah's great on the spaceship, isn't she?

1429
01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:48.360
She's really terrific.

1430
01:00:48.420 --> 01:00:52.380
She, like, while Pertwee's riding around in the wretched homobile

1431
01:00:52.380 --> 01:00:56.039
in episode 5 and boring...

1432
01:00:56.099 --> 01:00:59.159
It's Brian Badcoe, who was, I didn't mention who was Adam.

1433
01:00:59.219 --> 01:01:01.320
No, he hadn't been in Doctor Who before.

1434
01:01:01.380 --> 01:01:02.880
The wretched Homobile.

1435
01:01:02.940 --> 01:01:05.940
Do you know it was the Black Widow and Pertz Shaw saw it on show

1436
01:01:05.940 --> 01:01:08.280
at a Seaside Pier, the guy who built it?

1437
01:01:08.340 --> 01:01:09.179
I shall have that.

1438
01:01:09.239 --> 01:01:11.400
And, uh...

1439
01:01:11.460 --> 01:01:14.159
She called it the alien, but they painted out their tag.

1440
01:01:14.219 --> 01:01:17.280
I loved the Homobile. was the biggest thing for me as a child.

1441
01:01:17.340 --> 01:01:18.480
Oh, I think it's wonderful.

1442
01:01:18.539 --> 01:01:20.699
Corgi did a tooling of it, but it was never released.

1443
01:01:20.760 --> 01:01:22.380
Can you imagine how exciting that would have been?

1444
01:01:22.440 --> 01:01:23.880
Day pole did.

1445
01:01:23.880 --> 01:01:24.960
Day pole, too.

1446
01:01:25.019 --> 01:01:26.280
It wouldn't have looked half as good.

1447
01:01:26.340 --> 01:01:29.159
I have seen the corgi model. looks amazingly.

1448
01:01:29.219 --> 01:01:33.480
The day Paul version made it into their catalogue, like coming up

1449
01:01:33.480 --> 01:01:33.780
soon.

1450
01:01:33.840 --> 01:01:37.139
I've got a picture of it, donated by a friend of the podcast, Tony

1451
01:01:37.139 --> 01:01:37.739
Bird.

1452
01:01:37.800 --> 01:01:39.179
I'll give it to you back.

1453
01:01:39.239 --> 01:01:40.139
I started carving one.

1454
01:01:40.199 --> 01:01:44.579
I actually started building a one to 43 of it.

1455
01:01:44.639 --> 01:01:45.420
But it's a lot of work.

1456
01:01:45.480 --> 01:01:47.820
I've never got it finished, but it's quite fiddly, but I've done

1457
01:01:47.820 --> 01:01:48.539
the main body and wings.

1458
01:01:48.599 --> 01:01:51.480
No, no, it's an important thing for us, young man.

1459
01:01:51.539 --> 01:01:54.480
Have you seen the blue pizza?

1460
01:01:54.539 --> 01:01:55.380
talked about cars.

1461
01:01:55.440 --> 01:01:57.599
Yeah, the Blue Peter clip. of it?

1462
01:01:57.659 --> 01:02:00.119
Have you seen that when they're pretending it's a hovercraft?

1463
01:02:00.179 --> 01:02:00.780
It's hilarious.

1464
01:02:00.840 --> 01:02:02.400
And Peter Purvis in it?

1465
01:02:02.460 --> 01:02:04.320
Yeah, Peter Purpose is interviewing John Purey.

1466
01:02:04.380 --> 01:02:07.199
Peter Purpose appears to genuinely believe the thing can fly.

1467
01:02:08.159 --> 01:02:10.019
He gets a bit confused.

1468
01:02:10.139 --> 01:02:12.119
I'm sure he's just doing it for us at home.

1469
01:02:12.179 --> 01:02:15.480
He was after all, you know, not unfamiliar with the Doctor Who

1470
01:02:15.480 --> 01:02:16.260
ethos.

1471
01:02:16.440 --> 01:02:19.440
Don't you get the impression that Pertz, at this, at the earlier

1472
01:02:19.440 --> 01:02:22.980
part of this story at least, was thinking, you know, I can milk a

1473
01:02:22.980 --> 01:02:26.880
lot of cash out of this one, turning up at any pavilion and school

1474
01:02:26.880 --> 01:02:30.360
show and whatever else and charging for appearances as Mr. BBC

1475
01:02:30.360 --> 01:02:31.139
Future Man.

1476
01:02:31.199 --> 01:02:33.780
But Bowie was still in the charts just.

1477
01:02:33.840 --> 01:02:37.320
So, yeah, yeah, with his with his spacey car thing.

1478
01:02:37.380 --> 01:02:39.599
And yeah, that's kind of, I think that's actually where he was

1479
01:02:39.599 --> 01:02:40.019
coming from.

1480
01:02:40.079 --> 01:02:42.780
But there is a moment during this where it went from.

1481
01:02:42.840 --> 01:02:47.219
He was going to stay to negotiations were going pretty foul.

1482
01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:49.079
And then in the next story, we'll see.

1483
01:02:49.139 --> 01:02:51.960
You can actually, I think you can you can judge in death to the

1484
01:02:51.960 --> 01:02:55.320
Daleks, where he decides that or whatever reason that you can

1485
01:02:55.320 --> 01:02:56.760
actually see where he says, that's it.

1486
01:02:56.820 --> 01:02:59.880
But in this one, he was pulling all the plugs.

1487
01:02:59.940 --> 01:03:03.000
Although again, as they said, he was apparently terribly apathetic

1488
01:03:03.000 --> 01:03:05.340
about the whole role during the shoot of this, maybe because of

1489
01:03:05.340 --> 01:03:06.360
those negotiations.

1490
01:03:06.360 --> 01:03:08.699
And Liz said, Liz Sladden later said, you know, she was kind of

1491
01:03:08.699 --> 01:03:10.679
floundering around on her own because she wasn't getting anything

1492
01:03:10.679 --> 01:03:12.780
much more pertly on in the performance.

1493
01:03:12.840 --> 01:03:14.760
I think that actually helps.

1494
01:03:14.820 --> 01:03:18.179
He's the sense of isolated from him for quite a bit.

1495
01:03:18.239 --> 01:03:18.900
Yeah, yeah.

1496
01:03:18.900 --> 01:03:20.940
She is great in the scenes that she's here.

1497
01:03:21.000 --> 01:03:21.420
Really?

1498
01:03:21.480 --> 01:03:23.519
She's, we haven't seen, we see, you know, do anything.

1499
01:03:23.579 --> 01:03:24.539
Okay, we're 2 stories in.

1500
01:03:24.599 --> 01:03:27.900
Have we seen Miss Slowden do anything that we're not comfortable

1501
01:03:27.900 --> 01:03:28.920
or happy with?

1502
01:03:29.039 --> 01:03:30.000
against the character?

1503
01:03:30.059 --> 01:03:31.380
I haven't seen one moment yet.

1504
01:03:31.440 --> 01:03:33.239
She led a commando raid in the time.

1505
01:03:33.239 --> 01:03:33.900
She did?

1506
01:03:33.960 --> 01:03:34.739
Warrior.

1507
01:03:34.800 --> 01:03:39.179
She leads everyone out of the spaceship.

1508
01:03:39.239 --> 01:03:40.260
She's really terrific.

1509
01:03:40.320 --> 01:03:42.539
Yeah, she's got that wonderful mannerism where if she's

1510
01:03:42.539 --> 01:03:44.400
contemplating something, She bites her thumb.

1511
01:03:44.760 --> 01:03:48.000
And you know, I've only noticed that watching these in order

1512
01:03:48.000 --> 01:03:48.599
again.

1513
01:03:48.659 --> 01:03:52.019
But, you know, when she has a look at the spaceship controls for

1514
01:03:52.019 --> 01:03:54.539
the 1st time, she stands back and bites her thumb for a 2nd and

1515
01:03:54.539 --> 01:03:55.380
then...

1516
01:03:55.500 --> 01:03:58.500
And then I noticed it again in Planet of the Spiders and Death to

1517
01:03:58.500 --> 01:03:59.099
the Daleks.

1518
01:03:59.159 --> 01:04:00.900
Yeah, no, she's she's great.

1519
01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:01.500
She's amazing.

1520
01:04:01.559 --> 01:04:04.260
Barry was very canny and Barry knew John very well.

1521
01:04:04.320 --> 01:04:07.739
I think Barry knew John better than John knew himself.

1522
01:04:07.800 --> 01:04:09.780
Because John's been pretty great, hasn't it?

1523
01:04:09.840 --> 01:04:12.780
Yeah, John was not a self- reflective person at all.

1524
01:04:12.840 --> 01:04:13.380
Yeah.

1525
01:04:13.380 --> 01:04:16.440
Whereas Barry was very self-reflected.

1526
01:04:16.500 --> 01:04:20.219
Barry and Terence did instruct writers to write Sarah Jane as an

1527
01:04:20.219 --> 01:04:23.460
independent character who had her own story thread.

1528
01:04:24.179 --> 01:04:27.659
So if she was away from the doctor, she was doing her own thing

1529
01:04:27.659 --> 01:04:30.900
which led to the conclusion of the story, even if she made a

1530
01:04:30.900 --> 01:04:32.699
mistake, that was okay, but she had to be proactive.

1531
01:04:32.760 --> 01:04:38.460
And I think they were very aware that John was petering out, if

1532
01:04:38.460 --> 01:04:41.159
not, was definitely going to leave at the same time they did.

1533
01:04:41.219 --> 01:04:44.699
So I think they've deliberately written her as a co-lead.

1534
01:04:44.760 --> 01:04:48.719
And stronger than the original casting of the Smith character

1535
01:04:48.719 --> 01:04:50.280
which was neither gender.

1536
01:04:50.340 --> 01:04:51.420
It was just the character Smith.

1537
01:04:51.480 --> 01:04:52.019
They hadn't decided.

1538
01:04:52.079 --> 01:04:54.179
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

1539
01:04:54.300 --> 01:04:58.079
I think, though, that because she's so good, it does reinvigorate

1540
01:04:58.079 --> 01:04:58.739
John a little bit.

1541
01:04:58.800 --> 01:05:00.000
Yeah, I think so too.

1542
01:05:00.059 --> 01:05:03.000
Yeah, he definitely he'll come up to the mark when he's got other

1543
01:05:03.000 --> 01:05:05.880
people around him who are, you know, putting the work in.

1544
01:05:05.940 --> 01:05:09.179
I mean, there's that wonderful Hanna-Barbera bit when the doctor

1545
01:05:09.179 --> 01:05:12.480
is working on his working on his dinosaur stun gun and people keep

1546
01:05:12.480 --> 01:05:13.320
disturbing him.

1547
01:05:13.380 --> 01:05:15.960
And then eventually at the end of the scene, he just does a double

1548
01:05:15.960 --> 01:05:17.039
face parment.

1549
01:05:17.039 --> 01:05:17.760
Oh, no.

1550
01:05:19.739 --> 01:05:22.920
And that seems really funny in the novelisation as well.

1551
01:05:22.980 --> 01:05:27.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah. it's great And oh, another great chemistry

1552
01:05:27.119 --> 01:05:27.420
thing.

1553
01:05:27.480 --> 01:05:29.880
And it's probably down to Elizabeth Sladen more than anyone else.

1554
01:05:30.179 --> 01:05:36.059
Sarah and Mike hit it off straight away. like their very 1st scene

1555
01:05:36.059 --> 01:05:36.360
together.

1556
01:05:36.420 --> 01:05:38.340
There's more character between them.

1557
01:05:38.400 --> 01:05:41.460
There's more relationship between them than in 3 years of Mike and

1558
01:05:41.460 --> 01:05:42.059
Joe Grant.

1559
01:05:42.179 --> 01:05:43.800
Well, maybe 2 years.

1560
01:05:43.920 --> 01:05:46.980
He does really stop appearing in season 10.

1561
01:05:47.219 --> 01:05:49.860
Yeah, they only get like, Yeah, he only gets one season with Joe

1562
01:05:49.860 --> 01:05:51.000
in season 10, doesn't he?

1563
01:05:51.599 --> 01:05:53.699
Sarah and Mike.

1564
01:05:53.760 --> 01:05:57.360
Yeah, that great scene early on when they're discussing silent

1565
01:05:57.360 --> 01:06:01.079
London and they're both sort of gently pushing their own ideas and

1566
01:06:01.079 --> 01:06:01.679
agenda.

1567
01:06:01.739 --> 01:06:04.739
And then Sarah leaves and says, I might go chat up that nice

1568
01:06:04.739 --> 01:06:05.579
Captain Yates.

1569
01:06:05.639 --> 01:06:06.179
And you know what?

1570
01:06:06.239 --> 01:06:10.260
While I could never believe in a 1000000 years, Joe and Mike going

1571
01:06:10.260 --> 01:06:13.260
on a date together, I could believe Mike and Sarah going on a date

1572
01:06:13.260 --> 01:06:13.619
together.

1573
01:06:13.860 --> 01:06:18.300
You know, she's way out of his league, but I know, I think...

1574
01:06:18.300 --> 01:06:21.059
Yeah, I can see them both hitting the kind of bars that Sarah

1575
01:06:21.059 --> 01:06:25.019
would be quite happy to hang out with, you know, so I can see her

1576
01:06:25.019 --> 01:06:28.679
hagging and, you know, in Double X early in London.

1577
01:06:28.739 --> 01:06:30.840
We didn't mention Sir Charles Grover.

1578
01:06:30.900 --> 01:06:34.139
He was the king of Atlantis in underwater menace.

1579
01:06:34.199 --> 01:06:35.820
Oh, God, yes.

1580
01:06:35.880 --> 01:06:36.840
But no one remembers that story.

1581
01:06:36.900 --> 01:06:37.260
Yeah.

1582
01:06:37.320 --> 01:06:38.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1583
01:06:38.099 --> 01:06:41.039
You've had so much slap on and sequence, you could.

1584
01:06:41.460 --> 01:06:42.420
Noel Coleman.

1585
01:06:42.480 --> 01:06:46.139
And he turns up again as the high priest of the cats in Red Dwarf

1586
01:06:46.139 --> 01:06:46.739
season one.

1587
01:06:47.039 --> 01:06:49.199
He does too.

1588
01:06:49.260 --> 01:06:52.079
Oh, and General Smythe in the war games.

1589
01:06:53.039 --> 01:06:55.320
I think we're mixing people up.

1590
01:06:55.380 --> 01:06:56.340
No, no Coleman.

1591
01:06:56.880 --> 01:06:59.699
It is no, no, it's no Johnson.

1592
01:06:59.760 --> 01:07:01.199
No Johnson place.

1593
01:07:01.260 --> 01:07:02.039
I'm mixing people up.

1594
01:07:02.099 --> 01:07:02.880
Please ignore me.

1595
01:07:02.940 --> 01:07:05.400
Don't cut it out because it's worth having a look at.

1596
01:07:05.519 --> 01:07:06.960
But no, Noel Johnson.

1597
01:07:07.019 --> 01:07:09.360
It's not really a glowing performance. an underwater menace, but

1598
01:07:09.360 --> 01:07:10.139
what is in that one?

1599
01:07:10.199 --> 01:07:13.619
But yeah, we've done, go back, dear listener, and have a listen to

1600
01:07:13.619 --> 01:07:15.420
that fabulous podcast if you missed it.

1601
01:07:15.480 --> 01:07:18.840
The cast loved working with Julia Smith, as we well know.

1602
01:07:20.579 --> 01:07:24.300
Gosh, it seems so long since the 60s, doesn't it?

1603
01:07:24.360 --> 01:07:27.420
Well, not just for the poor listener who's having to charge

1604
01:07:27.420 --> 01:07:28.139
through all this.

1605
01:07:28.199 --> 01:07:32.099
But it might as well be a decade or more, even though we're only

1606
01:07:32.099 --> 01:07:32.940
1974.

1607
01:07:33.179 --> 01:07:35.159
There's nothing left.

1608
01:07:35.219 --> 01:07:39.059
Yeah, there's nothing left of, it doesn't even feel like that era

1609
01:07:39.059 --> 01:07:39.780
of Doctor Who.

1610
01:07:39.840 --> 01:07:42.780
And yet we're heading towards the end of this one as well.

1611
01:07:42.840 --> 01:07:43.860
Things move so quickly.

1612
01:07:43.920 --> 01:07:45.599
They do, they do.

1613
01:07:45.599 --> 01:07:48.960
Much more rapidly than this lovely podcast.

1614
01:07:49.019 --> 01:07:50.519
It might be said.

1615
01:07:50.579 --> 01:07:51.300
Where are we up to?

1616
01:07:51.360 --> 01:07:52.380
Invasion of the dinosaurs.

1617
01:07:52.440 --> 01:07:53.159
How are we going with that one?

1618
01:07:53.219 --> 01:07:53.820
Are we done?

1619
01:07:53.880 --> 01:07:54.659
Where are we?

1620
01:07:54.719 --> 01:07:56.219
Right, right.

1621
01:07:56.219 --> 01:07:58.800
Your answer's on the back of a postcard and we'll ignore them.

1622
01:07:59.219 --> 01:08:02.159
If anyone, you know, hasn't seen this yet.

1623
01:08:02.219 --> 01:08:06.599
It's not unlikely that you haven't came out very late. as a DVD.

1624
01:08:06.659 --> 01:08:09.480
If I had a pick of the week, it would be to read the paper book

1625
01:08:09.480 --> 01:08:12.960
back version of Invasion of the Dinosaurs because it was how I

1626
01:08:12.960 --> 01:08:13.559
came to this.

1627
01:08:13.619 --> 01:08:16.680
And it was one of me fave perts of the 70s.

1628
01:08:16.739 --> 01:08:18.479
I read this in about 77, 78.

1629
01:08:18.600 --> 01:08:19.739
It just came out?

1630
01:08:19.859 --> 01:08:21.180
I read and reread it.

1631
01:08:21.239 --> 01:08:22.260
I don't think you can get it.

1632
01:08:22.319 --> 01:08:22.859
Do you know what I mean?

1633
01:08:22.920 --> 01:08:23.939
Is it not our theme?

1634
01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:27.119
Maybe if we have a spare and someone loves us, we can send one off

1635
01:08:27.180 --> 01:08:27.659
don't know.

1636
01:08:27.720 --> 01:08:29.939
I might have a spare. can buy the audiobook.

1637
01:08:30.060 --> 01:08:30.779
Oh can you?

1638
01:08:30.840 --> 01:08:31.260
Yeah.

1639
01:08:31.319 --> 01:08:32.340
I just like reading them.

1640
01:08:32.399 --> 01:08:36.180
I can remember reading it on a very cold day on a bus, that

1641
01:08:36.180 --> 01:08:40.979
opening chapter, even though it's so long ago because Malcolm Holt

1642
01:08:40.979 --> 01:08:42.359
with Shuey McPherson.

1643
01:08:42.420 --> 01:08:42.720
It?

1644
01:08:42.779 --> 01:08:43.380
It's wonderful.

1645
01:08:43.439 --> 01:08:47.939
And then the epilogue with them walking through the busted up

1646
01:08:47.939 --> 01:08:51.659
bookstore and finding a Bible and saying that perhaps apparitions

1647
01:08:51.659 --> 01:08:53.579
in the Bible are actually aliens.

1648
01:08:53.640 --> 01:08:54.600
God, that's amazing.

1649
01:08:54.659 --> 01:08:57.180
And that seems that's his 2nd vinyl.

1650
01:08:57.180 --> 01:08:58.140
That's all kind of novelisation.

1651
01:08:58.199 --> 01:08:59.279
Remember, Ash is...

1652
01:08:59.279 --> 01:09:00.659
Ash had a...

1653
01:09:00.659 --> 01:09:01.859
A book about himself.

1654
01:09:01.920 --> 01:09:06.659
After David Whitaker himself in an adventure with the Daleks

1655
01:09:06.659 --> 01:09:10.020
Malcolm Hulk is by far my favourite Doctor Who writer of all time

1656
01:09:10.020 --> 01:09:11.279
in the novelisation.

1657
01:09:11.399 --> 01:09:13.140
In any novel, in any book form.

1658
01:09:13.199 --> 01:09:15.000
And that's all the new ones as well.

1659
01:09:15.060 --> 01:09:19.260
He's so good As iconic as that 1st cover is with the sunset over

1660
01:09:19.260 --> 01:09:20.699
London and the clock.

1661
01:09:20.760 --> 01:09:22.260
I like the 2nd one.

1662
01:09:22.319 --> 01:09:23.939
The addition I have.

1663
01:09:24.000 --> 01:09:26.220
The T-Rex in front of the Whitehall.

1664
01:09:26.220 --> 01:09:29.640
It's subtle and beautifully done and really atmospherically lit

1665
01:09:29.640 --> 01:09:30.720
and is it a Jeff?

1666
01:09:30.779 --> 01:09:32.100
Who did the Jeff down?

1667
01:09:32.159 --> 01:09:34.199
Who did the painting for that one?

1668
01:09:34.260 --> 01:09:37.739
It's the same guy who did the talons of Wing Cheyenne cover with a

1669
01:09:37.739 --> 01:09:39.720
beautiful portrait of Tom Baker.

1670
01:09:39.779 --> 01:09:41.579
I do love the targets.

1671
01:09:41.640 --> 01:09:43.380
Actually, I think it's not Whitehall.

1672
01:09:43.439 --> 01:09:43.859
I think at St.

1673
01:09:43.859 --> 01:09:44.220
Paul's.

1674
01:09:44.340 --> 01:09:46.140
I think it's cool, yeah.

1675
01:09:46.199 --> 01:09:49.560
A few more things before we move on to the end of the story.

1676
01:09:49.619 --> 01:09:51.300
Corporal Bell.

1677
01:09:51.359 --> 01:09:53.520
Sorry, Corporal Bryson.

1678
01:09:53.579 --> 01:09:55.079
I wish Corporal Girl was burned.

1679
01:09:55.140 --> 01:09:56.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1680
01:09:56.819 --> 01:09:57.600
Why wasn't she there?

1681
01:09:57.659 --> 01:10:00.539
There's another RT operator, but then we get another private in

1682
01:10:00.539 --> 01:10:03.180
the last episode who is the one telling Sarah.

1683
01:10:03.239 --> 01:10:03.840
Everyone's gone.

1684
01:10:03.899 --> 01:10:04.500
No one's here.

1685
01:10:04.560 --> 01:10:05.279
I mean, no, no.

1686
01:10:05.340 --> 01:10:06.659
The actor playing him is 51.

1687
01:10:06.779 --> 01:10:07.800
Really?

1688
01:10:07.859 --> 01:10:10.020
John Bennett at this point was 46.

1689
01:10:10.199 --> 01:10:10.920
Wow.

1690
01:10:10.979 --> 01:10:12.479
You know, wow, wow.

1691
01:10:12.539 --> 01:10:14.340
Obviously, some people moisturise.

1692
01:10:14.399 --> 01:10:18.539
Now, with the whole thing about power shortages and having your

1693
01:10:18.539 --> 01:10:21.720
own power and whatnot, at this point, Britain was on the 3 day

1694
01:10:21.720 --> 01:10:22.079
week.

1695
01:10:22.140 --> 01:10:23.279
We were.

1696
01:10:23.279 --> 01:10:27.539
With the power strikes and what have you, which will give us tones

1697
01:10:27.539 --> 01:10:28.979
in the next 2 stories as well.

1698
01:10:29.039 --> 01:10:36.300
And also was one of the key things to get rid of the conservative

1699
01:10:36.300 --> 01:10:40.979
government that was in the UK at this time.

1700
01:10:41.039 --> 01:10:44.579
Yeah, just a few more memory, just a few more memories of this for

1701
01:10:44.579 --> 01:10:44.819
me.

1702
01:10:44.880 --> 01:10:47.640
The time sound effect, that sort of screeching sound effect

1703
01:10:47.640 --> 01:10:51.239
whenever there is a terrified me as a child.

1704
01:10:51.300 --> 01:10:53.279
It's good. really good.

1705
01:10:53.340 --> 01:10:56.340
But where the sound effects do fall down a bit is the dinosaur

1706
01:10:56.340 --> 01:11:00.479
rules, which is, um, it's it's a cat's played backwards.

1707
01:11:00.539 --> 01:11:01.079
Did you know that?

1708
01:11:01.140 --> 01:11:03.119
Well, I think that...

1709
01:11:03.180 --> 01:11:06.659
My friend, my friend Peter McTyre used to say that it was a guy

1710
01:11:06.659 --> 01:11:11.460
actually saying the word raw. into a microphone.

1711
01:11:11.520 --> 01:11:12.600
It was Dick Mills.

1712
01:11:12.659 --> 01:11:16.199
It was Dick Mills saying, I think in...

1713
01:11:16.260 --> 01:11:17.340
We don't encourage this at home.

1714
01:11:17.399 --> 01:11:19.979
I think in terms of the stegosaurus.

1715
01:11:20.039 --> 01:11:22.739
They were a bit more animalistic because that sounded a bit more

1716
01:11:22.739 --> 01:11:23.760
natural with all those growths.

1717
01:11:23.939 --> 01:11:27.000
Yeah, the Segosaurus, yeah, Lett said, oh, surely they're more

1718
01:11:27.000 --> 01:11:29.159
feline, so they, yeah, they put a cat noise backwards.

1719
01:11:29.220 --> 01:11:30.060
It doesn't sound that bad, actually.

1720
01:11:30.119 --> 01:11:33.420
But yeah, the T-Rex goes roar.

1721
01:11:33.420 --> 01:11:40.020
And the, and the Brontosaurus slash Apatosaurus goes...

1722
01:11:40.020 --> 01:11:41.880
So good.

1723
01:11:41.939 --> 01:11:43.739
Outrageous.

1724
01:11:43.800 --> 01:11:48.899
I have a question before we move on because when Sarah finally

1725
01:11:48.899 --> 01:11:51.779
does convince the colonists they're actually on a spaceship, one

1726
01:11:51.779 --> 01:11:55.380
of the background colonists says, this can't be a fake.

1727
01:11:55.439 --> 01:11:57.600
I went into everything very carefully.

1728
01:11:57.659 --> 01:11:58.619
I sold my house.

1729
01:11:58.680 --> 01:12:00.420
How exactly did you research this?

1730
01:12:01.199 --> 01:12:03.300
Such a great line?

1731
01:12:03.359 --> 01:12:04.800
I sold my house.

1732
01:12:04.859 --> 01:12:05.699
I was such...

1733
01:12:05.880 --> 01:12:09.720
He actually ends up as a member of the scientific reform society, I

1734
01:12:09.720 --> 01:12:10.619
think, actually.

1735
01:12:10.680 --> 01:12:12.000
Yes, he actually hands up his own.

1736
01:12:12.000 --> 01:12:12.899
All adds up, doesn't he?

1737
01:12:12.960 --> 01:12:14.100
Hands up as a receptionist.

1738
01:12:14.159 --> 01:12:16.739
One of the things that I really, really like about this, and it's

1739
01:12:16.739 --> 01:12:20.939
not in the novelisation, which we said ended up in the bookshop, is

1740
01:12:20.939 --> 01:12:25.260
that the doctor tries to persuade Sarah to get him the TARDIS

1741
01:12:25.260 --> 01:12:25.979
again with him.

1742
01:12:25.979 --> 01:12:28.739
And he sort of does this to Joe, doesn't he, at the beginning of

1743
01:12:28.739 --> 01:12:29.399
the Green Death.

1744
01:12:29.460 --> 01:12:32.460
He sort of says, I'm offering you all of time and space, you know

1745
01:12:32.460 --> 01:12:34.739
she decides to stay on earth.

1746
01:12:34.800 --> 01:12:38.460
But he does what the doctor does now in the new series all the

1747
01:12:38.460 --> 01:12:41.579
time, which is to describe somewhere beautiful and alienating and

1748
01:12:41.579 --> 01:12:42.300
exotic.

1749
01:12:42.300 --> 01:12:43.619
Which we then never see.

1750
01:12:43.680 --> 01:12:45.420
It's the planet Florana.

1751
01:12:45.479 --> 01:12:48.000
They are heading towards the planet Florana at the beginning of

1752
01:12:48.000 --> 01:12:51.300
the next story, like, and it is mentioned in dialogue a bit.

1753
01:12:51.359 --> 01:12:55.500
But just the best thing about it is the way that it's done is, of

1754
01:12:55.500 --> 01:12:59.279
course, Sarah's adamant that she's not going to go and the doctor

1755
01:12:59.279 --> 01:13:00.720
keeps explaining it.

1756
01:13:00.779 --> 01:13:04.140
And then she starts smiling and putting her hands over her ears

1757
01:13:04.140 --> 01:13:07.859
because even she realises that she's going to be persuaded and

1758
01:13:07.859 --> 01:13:08.460
then we're out.

1759
01:13:08.520 --> 01:13:09.720
Like, we don't see it.

1760
01:13:09.779 --> 01:13:11.520
That's when the credits come in.

1761
01:13:11.579 --> 01:13:12.359
I think it's lovely.

1762
01:13:12.420 --> 01:13:13.500
I think it's really delightful.

1763
01:13:13.560 --> 01:13:15.779
Yeah, and then she gets to do her swimswear shot.

1764
01:13:15.899 --> 01:13:19.739
Straight from 1942 in the next story coming up.

1765
01:13:19.800 --> 01:13:22.560
Todd in his previous appearance has some questions for us.

1766
01:13:22.619 --> 01:13:23.640
We've already had.

1767
01:13:24.180 --> 01:13:26.100
There are some new opening credits, and I think they're my

1768
01:13:26.100 --> 01:13:27.600
favourite of the 1970s.

1769
01:13:27.659 --> 01:13:28.439
Are they yours?

1770
01:13:28.560 --> 01:13:30.420
Oh, yes, they do.

1771
01:13:31.560 --> 01:13:35.399
Todd's question for Invasion of the Dinosaurs is this.

1772
01:13:35.460 --> 01:13:40.260
Can the storyline, the characters and the acting overcome the

1773
01:13:40.260 --> 01:13:43.739
Jenning Laird award nominated special effects?

1774
01:13:43.800 --> 01:13:46.439
I thought it could, but now at times, I'm not so sure.

1775
01:13:46.500 --> 01:13:47.159
No.

1776
01:13:47.220 --> 01:13:48.600
I think we've answered that one.

1777
01:13:48.659 --> 01:13:52.260
I think it's actually a great distraction that the effects kind of

1778
01:13:52.260 --> 01:13:54.659
muffle that there's a lot of plodding.

1779
01:13:54.720 --> 01:13:58.500
It's a very thin premise, the deserted London.

1780
01:13:58.560 --> 01:14:00.539
I think it would have worked better as an alien invasion.

1781
01:14:00.600 --> 01:14:04.439
There were going to be eggs 5 years before alien, huge shaped egg

1782
01:14:04.439 --> 01:14:07.140
things all over London that would be going to start hatching in

1783
01:14:07.140 --> 01:14:07.979
the Tower of London.

1784
01:14:08.039 --> 01:14:12.000
And then you'd start to pull back and you'd see them. giant

1785
01:14:12.000 --> 01:14:12.300
lizards.

1786
01:14:12.359 --> 01:14:13.140
I can only hope.

1787
01:14:13.260 --> 01:14:17.520
I think the story does overcome the special effects, but clearly

1788
01:14:17.520 --> 01:14:18.600
I'm outvoted.

1789
01:14:18.659 --> 01:14:21.600
Well, look, I mean, it's that usual pertry thing where terrible

1790
01:14:21.600 --> 01:14:23.159
pertry is still pretty entertaining.

1791
01:14:23.220 --> 01:14:24.180
It's not terrible.

1792
01:14:24.239 --> 01:14:26.760
I don't think there's anything this, well, so far in this season's

1793
01:14:26.760 --> 01:14:27.779
overcalled terrible.

1794
01:14:27.840 --> 01:14:31.979
But we are coming up on something which pertly considered rather

1795
01:14:31.979 --> 01:14:32.399
terrible.

1796
01:14:32.460 --> 01:14:34.199
Oh, what's that?

1797
01:14:34.260 --> 01:14:36.060
I think I think we're I think we're dropping out.

1798
01:14:36.119 --> 01:14:36.840
We're losing power.

1799
01:14:48.899 --> 01:14:50.340
It's an oboe.

1800
01:14:50.399 --> 01:14:51.840
It's a mediaeval over.

1801
01:14:52.439 --> 01:14:55.319
Okay, don't panic, guys.

1802
01:14:55.380 --> 01:14:58.680
I've hand cranked the recording apparatus, so we've landed on

1803
01:14:58.680 --> 01:15:01.079
Excelon with depth to the Daleks.

1804
01:15:01.199 --> 01:15:02.520
Oh, let me say something.

1805
01:15:03.119 --> 01:15:04.800
Is this your story?

1806
01:15:04.859 --> 01:15:07.079
I don't think we can stop it.

1807
01:15:07.140 --> 01:15:10.079
This is the 1st Doctor Who story that I ever saw.

1808
01:15:10.319 --> 01:15:16.739
And what happened was I was in 4th class, year four.

1809
01:15:16.800 --> 01:15:22.739
So primary school and my friend Luke Dwelley brought in the Doctor

1810
01:15:22.739 --> 01:15:23.880
Who Monster book.

1811
01:15:24.000 --> 01:15:27.840
And I think my research tells me that it's the 2nd edition of the

1812
01:15:27.840 --> 01:15:28.439
monster book.

1813
01:15:28.500 --> 01:15:29.939
We talked about Doctor Who.

1814
01:15:30.000 --> 01:15:31.500
I looked at the Doctor Who Monster book.

1815
01:15:31.560 --> 01:15:36.000
I knew who the 4 doctors to date where I knew about Daleks inside

1816
01:15:36.000 --> 01:15:36.600
and end.

1817
01:15:36.659 --> 01:15:40.020
And on the 19th of June, 1978.

1818
01:15:40.319 --> 01:15:44.520
He told me that into nights, Doctor Who, the Daleks were going to

1819
01:15:44.520 --> 01:15:47.760
be in it, and I should actually watch it instead of just talking

1820
01:15:47.760 --> 01:15:48.779
about it at school.

1821
01:15:48.840 --> 01:15:49.920
Oh, isn't that lovely?

1822
01:15:49.920 --> 01:15:54.779
Because Harry Blyton's back with the London saxophone quartet and

1823
01:15:54.779 --> 01:15:56.460
that's why everyone had to watch it.

1824
01:15:56.520 --> 01:16:00.600
Do you know, in fact, I think that the music for this story, and

1825
01:16:00.600 --> 01:16:04.560
particularly for episode one, is spectacularly good.

1826
01:16:04.619 --> 01:16:06.300
Is it just us that thinks that?

1827
01:16:06.359 --> 01:16:07.079
do you know what?

1828
01:16:07.140 --> 01:16:11.520
As an as a boy, it was this rift, the 3 blind mice rift for the

1829
01:16:11.520 --> 01:16:15.300
Daleks plotting plonking about, and the we're running through

1830
01:16:15.300 --> 01:16:17.880
Paris, running through Paris, from city of Paris?

1831
01:16:17.880 --> 01:16:20.819
Are the only 2 bits that I really, really used to hear in my head

1832
01:16:20.819 --> 01:16:21.359
as a child?

1833
01:16:21.420 --> 01:16:25.260
That theme for the Daleks doesn't turn up until episode two, of

1834
01:16:25.260 --> 01:16:26.939
course, and the Daleks appear at the end of episode.

1835
01:16:27.000 --> 01:16:30.359
Lovely atmospherics when you get to the, and how good, thankfully

1836
01:16:30.359 --> 01:16:34.260
we're back in quarries. and doesn't it look a terrific, beautifully

1837
01:16:34.260 --> 01:16:38.159
leaves proper dark, shaking, cold, fog lit?

1838
01:16:38.220 --> 01:16:41.279
Sarah, Liz again carries it off beautifully herself.

1839
01:16:41.340 --> 01:16:44.699
There's a spectacular scene where Liz is running away from

1840
01:16:44.699 --> 01:16:48.720
something and there's all this mist blowing up, you know, across

1841
01:16:48.720 --> 01:16:51.899
the heels in the quarry and things and it looks completely

1842
01:16:51.899 --> 01:16:52.619
otherworldly.

1843
01:16:52.680 --> 01:16:54.239
It's so frightening.

1844
01:16:54.300 --> 01:16:58.859
Carrie Blyton has got some kind of terrifying, terrifying

1845
01:16:58.859 --> 01:17:02.460
atmosphere thing going all the way through the Excelon attack.

1846
01:17:02.520 --> 01:17:08.220
He develops a theme for the city and the excellence as well as a

1847
01:17:08.220 --> 01:17:13.020
theme for the Daleks and the chanting, the sort of Gregorian

1848
01:17:13.020 --> 01:17:17.159
chants that the Exxons doing episode 2 later goes on to become the

1849
01:17:17.159 --> 01:17:17.880
city's theme.

1850
01:17:17.939 --> 01:17:19.979
I think the music is really great.

1851
01:17:20.039 --> 01:17:23.399
It's perfect, and it owes a lot more to the, again, we've

1852
01:17:23.399 --> 01:17:23.939
mentioned H.

1853
01:17:23.939 --> 01:17:26.939
Ryder, Haggard and She, but all the backstory of the primitive

1854
01:17:26.939 --> 01:17:30.300
city. lost, you know, the lost civilisation stuff is very much

1855
01:17:30.300 --> 01:17:33.779
Edgar Rice Burrows and Henry Wright, Sir Henry Writer Haggart.

1856
01:17:33.840 --> 01:17:35.399
I love that novel sheet.

1857
01:17:35.460 --> 01:17:38.340
And Sarah's the perfect companion to be in this.

1858
01:17:38.399 --> 01:17:40.800
How beautiful is that city when we finally see it.

1859
01:17:40.920 --> 01:17:44.640
How lovely are the sound effects and the...

1860
01:17:44.699 --> 01:17:45.960
Yeah the sound effects are great for it.

1861
01:17:46.020 --> 01:17:46.800
It's really true.

1862
01:17:46.859 --> 01:17:48.060
I really, really love it.

1863
01:17:48.119 --> 01:17:51.539
You say that it has its roots in H, right, haggard, but it does

1864
01:17:51.539 --> 01:17:54.420
very much have its roots in planet of the Daleks, doesn't it?

1865
01:17:54.479 --> 01:17:56.760
Well, which is also right a hagard.

1866
01:17:56.819 --> 01:17:59.220
I wasn't on that. which is also, but it's actually the same book

1867
01:17:59.279 --> 01:18:00.420
whatever's left over.

1868
01:18:00.539 --> 01:18:02.460
They been using that. thrown into this.

1869
01:18:02.579 --> 01:18:06.420
So last time when we did Planet of the Dialects, I gave a list of

1870
01:18:06.420 --> 01:18:08.819
things and we worked out a big list of things that were from

1871
01:18:08.819 --> 01:18:10.020
previous Dialect stories.

1872
01:18:10.140 --> 01:18:12.539
So let's do that again.

1873
01:18:12.600 --> 01:18:16.500
The Daleks encounter a humanoid expedition on an alien planet.

1874
01:18:16.560 --> 01:18:20.220
They subjugate the native population.

1875
01:18:20.279 --> 01:18:23.699
At least one of the natives is a sympathetic guy who's on our

1876
01:18:23.699 --> 01:18:24.119
side.

1877
01:18:24.239 --> 01:18:25.439
Glad in dark, chick.

1878
01:18:25.500 --> 01:18:27.899
The Daleks use plague bombs.

1879
01:18:27.960 --> 01:18:28.920
Check.

1880
01:18:28.979 --> 01:18:31.380
People carry bombs around a great deal.

1881
01:18:31.500 --> 01:18:34.500
Somebody's called Tarrant.

1882
01:18:34.560 --> 01:18:34.859
Yes.

1883
01:18:34.859 --> 01:18:35.340
Yes.

1884
01:18:35.399 --> 01:18:36.359
Someone's called Taran Orton.

1885
01:18:36.420 --> 01:18:37.380
No, someone is called Tarrant.

1886
01:18:37.439 --> 01:18:40.619
Jill Tarrant is too. cast himself as a laird in.

1887
01:18:40.680 --> 01:18:44.340
The Daleks appear at the end of episode one for the 1st time.

1888
01:18:44.399 --> 01:18:45.300
Yep.

1889
01:18:45.359 --> 01:18:47.039
The Daleks have no power.

1890
01:18:47.100 --> 01:18:48.960
So he's stealing from David Whittaker now.

1891
01:18:49.020 --> 01:18:51.119
Power.

1892
01:18:51.119 --> 01:18:54.359
And Sarah's sidelined for a grade deal of it.

1893
01:18:54.420 --> 01:18:55.680
She's a girl and it's attack.

1894
01:18:55.739 --> 01:18:57.060
It's a terry nations group.

1895
01:18:57.119 --> 01:18:57.659
But you know what, though?

1896
01:18:57.720 --> 01:19:01.260
I love all of that because this is no longer just Niken.

1897
01:19:01.319 --> 01:19:02.460
This is homage.

1898
01:19:02.520 --> 01:19:05.520
This is the very last story in the history of everything where

1899
01:19:05.520 --> 01:19:08.819
we'll have proper Whitaker 60s Daleks.

1900
01:19:08.819 --> 01:19:12.000
Because the very next story coming up, a whole new universe next

1901
01:19:12.000 --> 01:19:15.180
year, the D word comes up and Daleks will never be the same

1902
01:19:15.180 --> 01:19:15.420
again.

1903
01:19:15.479 --> 01:19:16.199
That's right.

1904
01:19:16.260 --> 01:19:17.579
That bloke in a bath chair.

1905
01:19:17.699 --> 01:19:20.520
Smoken under his mask.

1906
01:19:21.119 --> 01:19:25.979
From a purely aesthetic point of view, This colour scheme is

1907
01:19:25.979 --> 01:19:29.039
actually my favourite classic darlic colour scheme is silver and

1908
01:19:29.039 --> 01:19:30.000
black.

1909
01:19:30.119 --> 01:19:30.779
I haven't seen it before.

1910
01:19:30.840 --> 01:19:36.600
Also because it's the 1st time that the rank and file Daleks have

1911
01:19:36.600 --> 01:19:40.859
been metallic in full colour and they actually look...

1912
01:19:40.979 --> 01:19:44.880
I know the props themselves are a bit broken and a bit ratty, but

1913
01:19:44.880 --> 01:19:47.819
the silver paint job really makes them look smart and professional

1914
01:19:47.819 --> 01:19:49.680
and like they could be deadly.

1915
01:19:49.739 --> 01:19:52.380
Yeah, you know, a little boy, because they look mechanical.

1916
01:19:52.439 --> 01:19:53.340
They look like metal, yeah.

1917
01:19:53.399 --> 01:19:53.939
Yeah, exactly.

1918
01:19:54.000 --> 01:19:56.699
And they are back to the Whittaker style of cunning and

1919
01:19:56.699 --> 01:19:57.359
subterfuge.

1920
01:19:57.420 --> 01:19:59.340
They have to, we can see why they're conquering heroes.

1921
01:19:59.399 --> 01:20:02.880
It's not that they're ungainly because...

1922
01:20:02.939 --> 01:20:04.020
Yeah, yeah, they're talking about it.

1923
01:20:04.079 --> 01:20:06.659
Because one of them has a nervous breakdown and explodes because

1924
01:20:06.659 --> 01:20:08.520
they hit by steep...

1925
01:20:08.579 --> 01:20:11.579
But we're talking about the 1st episode where they have to use

1926
01:20:11.579 --> 01:20:12.300
their cunning.

1927
01:20:12.359 --> 01:20:15.539
They're no longer, you see how much they panic when they can't

1928
01:20:15.539 --> 01:20:16.079
shoot anyone.

1929
01:20:16.140 --> 01:20:18.239
And so they have to be horribly clever.

1930
01:20:18.300 --> 01:20:20.640
When we get a point of the Daleks were conquering heroes in the

1931
01:20:20.640 --> 01:20:23.220
comics at least, because they had to use their heads.

1932
01:20:23.279 --> 01:20:25.680
You know, I actually, I actually think one of the least

1933
01:20:25.680 --> 01:20:29.159
interesting things about this story is that the Daleks are without

1934
01:20:29.159 --> 01:20:33.180
power because it gives us a resolution to the episode one

1935
01:20:33.180 --> 01:20:36.720
cliffhanger and then 5 minutes later they've been fitted with

1936
01:20:36.720 --> 01:20:40.140
different guns and they just go on being unpleasant and mean to

1937
01:20:40.140 --> 01:20:42.060
everyone and threatening to kill them anyway.

1938
01:20:42.300 --> 01:20:46.500
It's almost as if everyone's so excited by the thought that Terry

1939
01:20:46.500 --> 01:20:51.359
Nations had an actual new idea at some point since the Daleks in

1940
01:20:51.359 --> 01:20:55.380
1964 that they failed to notice that it's really only 5 minutes of

1941
01:20:55.380 --> 01:20:58.020
the actual running time. all you need those.

1942
01:20:58.079 --> 01:21:02.100
The thing is, though, I think this is a really interesting story

1943
01:21:02.100 --> 01:21:03.899
from a plot point of view.

1944
01:21:03.960 --> 01:21:05.340
I think it's got a really great plot.

1945
01:21:05.399 --> 01:21:08.279
I don't actually think it's that good a Dalek story.

1946
01:21:08.340 --> 01:21:11.340
Well, again, it works because they're not really the centre of the

1947
01:21:11.340 --> 01:21:11.640
action.

1948
01:21:11.699 --> 01:21:13.680
The city and the excellence themselves.

1949
01:21:13.680 --> 01:21:15.180
Exactly. take it all up.

1950
01:21:15.239 --> 01:21:17.939
That does help slightly because every other time we've had the

1951
01:21:17.939 --> 01:21:21.899
Daleks, it's been, oh, the Daleks are up to something nasty and

1952
01:21:21.899 --> 01:21:23.159
the doctor stumbles onto it.

1953
01:21:23.220 --> 01:21:28.439
Whereas this story is the doctor has been trying to get somewhere

1954
01:21:28.439 --> 01:21:32.220
and ends up somewhere and the Daleks stumble upon him.

1955
01:21:32.279 --> 01:21:35.279
You know, so it is turning that on its head slightly.

1956
01:21:35.340 --> 01:21:39.960
I'd like to, um, we'll certainly get back to the Daleks as more to

1957
01:21:39.960 --> 01:21:40.319
say about them.

1958
01:21:40.380 --> 01:21:43.319
But since we're on episode one, I'd like to talk about the humans

1959
01:21:43.319 --> 01:21:45.060
whom the doctor meets.

1960
01:21:45.180 --> 01:21:52.439
So we've got this space crew who are looking for a mineral and...

1961
01:21:52.439 --> 01:21:55.560
They're meant to be Marines and they're in Thunderbirds uniforms

1962
01:21:55.560 --> 01:21:56.340
blue rompers.

1963
01:21:56.460 --> 01:21:57.359
I know, I know.

1964
01:21:57.479 --> 01:22:00.420
And we're speaking RP, except for the slightly northern one who

1965
01:22:00.420 --> 01:22:01.140
knows the bad one.

1966
01:22:01.319 --> 01:22:02.760
Scottish.

1967
01:22:02.819 --> 01:22:04.020
Oh, it's very normal.

1968
01:22:04.079 --> 01:22:04.800
So he's very good.

1969
01:22:05.279 --> 01:22:09.060
I love how posh they are and how they all call each other Jill and

1970
01:22:09.060 --> 01:22:09.479
Peter.

1971
01:22:09.899 --> 01:22:13.020
Yeah, they've just come from one of Margot Ledbetter's gone

1972
01:22:13.020 --> 01:22:13.739
parts.

1973
01:22:14.939 --> 01:22:18.659
Well, the 1st one we see is played by Terry Walsh.

1974
01:22:18.720 --> 01:22:20.760
Yes, Spaceman Jack.

1975
01:22:20.760 --> 01:22:22.319
Filled with arrows.

1976
01:22:22.319 --> 01:22:24.899
In a scene that was cut out of the Australian terrestrial

1977
01:22:24.899 --> 01:22:26.520
broadcast in the 80s.

1978
01:22:26.579 --> 01:22:30.000
I don't know about the 70s. my recorded off the telecopy, didn't

1979
01:22:30.000 --> 01:22:30.239
have that.

1980
01:22:30.300 --> 01:22:32.699
We also didn't have the last 10 minutes of episode four.

1981
01:22:32.760 --> 01:22:34.920
Thanks dad, trying to fit 8 episodes on one tape.

1982
01:22:36.300 --> 01:22:39.659
So the 1st time I saw that scene, it's like, what the hell is

1983
01:22:39.659 --> 01:22:39.840
this?

1984
01:22:39.960 --> 01:22:41.399
I don't remember it either.

1985
01:22:41.460 --> 01:22:43.500
You could be right because the census was still active in the

1986
01:22:43.500 --> 01:22:44.039
early 70s.

1987
01:22:44.100 --> 01:22:45.479
Yeah, because in the novelisation.

1988
01:22:45.539 --> 01:22:48.180
It's a very welsh beginning.

1989
01:22:48.239 --> 01:22:50.279
Yeah, yeah, Terry Welsh, that's what the chapter is called.

1990
01:22:50.279 --> 01:22:52.859
So he's Spaceman Jack.

1991
01:22:52.920 --> 01:22:54.239
That's what he's actually called.

1992
01:22:54.300 --> 01:22:59.279
There's Commander Stewart. who's laid up in bed with a head

1993
01:22:59.279 --> 01:22:59.699
wound.

1994
01:22:59.819 --> 01:23:04.739
There is Railton, the 2nd in command, played by John Abeneary, in

1995
01:23:04.739 --> 01:23:06.359
a wig. in a wig.

1996
01:23:06.420 --> 01:23:07.500
There is...

1997
01:23:07.500 --> 01:23:08.100
Swampy wig.

1998
01:23:08.220 --> 01:23:12.539
There is Hamilton, the navigator, played by Julian Fox. and he's

1999
01:23:12.539 --> 01:23:15.359
he's very famous 5 sort of, get out of there.

2000
01:23:15.420 --> 01:23:16.439
Get out of it now.

2001
01:23:16.500 --> 01:23:18.899
There is Galloway.

2002
01:23:18.960 --> 01:23:22.199
The aforementioned Scottish weapons officer.

2003
01:23:22.260 --> 01:23:26.699
And there's Jill Tarrant, the civilian geologist, where everything

2004
01:23:26.699 --> 01:23:31.260
she says is on this one level, no matter how upset she is.

2005
01:23:31.319 --> 01:23:33.000
That is what I've made earlier.

2006
01:23:33.060 --> 01:23:35.100
She's so bad.

2007
01:23:35.159 --> 01:23:35.880
Is she though?

2008
01:23:35.939 --> 01:23:39.479
Well, at the end of... very fond of her is important.

2009
01:23:39.539 --> 01:23:41.579
You know, you know what?

2010
01:23:41.640 --> 01:23:42.600
She...

2011
01:23:42.600 --> 01:23:44.460
She looks very striking on screen.

2012
01:23:44.460 --> 01:23:48.720
And I'm not, I'm not saying that as reducing her to her looks.

2013
01:23:48.779 --> 01:23:51.239
I mean, she's a bit fantastic for her, though, isn't she?

2014
01:23:51.300 --> 01:23:54.300
It's how gills were cast in these shows back in the day.

2015
01:23:54.359 --> 01:23:55.680
You know, it should be slightly sort of helpless.

2016
01:23:55.739 --> 01:23:58.319
And you know she's going to sprain her ankle as the goodies would

2017
01:23:58.319 --> 01:24:00.359
say any 2nd noun and ruin it for everybody.

2018
01:24:00.420 --> 01:24:01.859
And you know what?

2019
01:24:01.979 --> 01:24:06.060
I'm sure that John got on quite well with her because we still we

2020
01:24:06.060 --> 01:24:08.399
still have behind the scenes footage from one of the studio

2021
01:24:08.399 --> 01:24:11.699
recordings in existence and the bit with the cliffhanger between

2022
01:24:11.699 --> 01:24:12.359
takes.

2023
01:24:12.479 --> 01:24:15.420
You know how she cuddles up to him as the Daleks Open Fire?

2024
01:24:15.479 --> 01:24:17.640
They're still cuddled up and just quietly.

2025
01:24:17.699 --> 01:24:19.020
I think she had little choice in that matter.

2026
01:24:19.079 --> 01:24:23.880
No, she is actually sort of leaning into him with, you know, I

2027
01:24:23.880 --> 01:24:25.739
think they got on quite well, is what I'm saying.

2028
01:24:25.800 --> 01:24:30.359
But, you know, even the funny thing is, um, Rod's comments, we

2029
01:24:30.359 --> 01:24:33.899
haven't had one of these for, um, Joy Harrison is one of the worst

2030
01:24:33.899 --> 01:24:34.979
actors so far.

2031
01:24:35.039 --> 01:24:38.220
Did she know someone on the production and is this nepotism?

2032
01:24:38.279 --> 01:24:43.380
Now, when I was watching it again for the podcast last week, Rod

2033
01:24:43.380 --> 01:24:44.699
said, oh, I'll watch it with you.

2034
01:24:44.760 --> 01:24:46.260
And I'm like, we're up to Eccleston.

2035
01:24:46.319 --> 01:24:47.100
Okay, fine.

2036
01:24:47.159 --> 01:24:51.060
And about halfway through episode one, I just laughed at something

2037
01:24:51.060 --> 01:24:53.819
she said, I think it was that bit where she says, if we don't get

2038
01:24:53.819 --> 01:24:57.180
it, 1000000s of women and children and people are going to die.

2039
01:24:57.239 --> 01:24:58.800
And I said, God, she's awful.

2040
01:24:58.859 --> 01:25:00.720
And Rod said, no, no, she's really good.

2041
01:25:00.779 --> 01:25:06.539
And during episode three, she's like, no, no, sorry, she is, she's

2042
01:25:06.539 --> 01:25:07.199
I remember her now.

2043
01:25:07.260 --> 01:25:07.680
She terrible.

2044
01:25:08.220 --> 01:25:11.819
Why does that dialect kill itself just because she is scared.

2045
01:25:11.939 --> 01:25:12.720
I know, I know.

2046
01:25:12.779 --> 01:25:14.399
In the original script, it doesn't.

2047
01:25:14.520 --> 01:25:15.899
It has a bit of a panic.

2048
01:25:15.960 --> 01:25:20.939
And then goes off to a report that it has failed and rejoins the

2049
01:25:20.939 --> 01:25:21.180
others.

2050
01:25:21.239 --> 01:25:24.300
I think there was consideration that another Dalek would then

2051
01:25:24.300 --> 01:25:26.939
destroy it for failing, which I think is far more in keeping.

2052
01:25:27.000 --> 01:25:29.340
That's what happens in the final...

2053
01:25:29.399 --> 01:25:32.039
Yeah, someone on the floor, I doubt it could have been the

2054
01:25:32.039 --> 01:25:32.880
director actually just said.

2055
01:25:32.939 --> 01:25:34.319
This is really wild directed.

2056
01:25:34.380 --> 01:25:36.300
I love the external shots.

2057
01:25:36.359 --> 01:25:37.680
Yeah, it's Michael Lee Bryant again.

2058
01:25:37.739 --> 01:25:38.760
Yeah, the stuff...

2059
01:25:38.760 --> 01:25:43.079
Again, like Smoke and Billows and Hessian in the category is

2060
01:25:43.079 --> 01:25:43.319
perfect.

2061
01:25:43.380 --> 01:25:46.739
And even though the Exxons are just sort of crappy guys with

2062
01:25:46.739 --> 01:25:48.239
rubber heads and kind of cows.

2063
01:25:48.300 --> 01:25:48.659
Do you think so?

2064
01:25:48.720 --> 01:25:49.739
they look really menacing.

2065
01:25:49.800 --> 01:25:50.399
Wonderful.

2066
01:25:50.460 --> 01:25:53.760
And I get a, you know, they're meant to feel like the silicon

2067
01:25:53.819 --> 01:25:55.079
another silicon-based life form.

2068
01:25:55.140 --> 01:25:57.359
We're actually meant to believe that they're rock based.

2069
01:25:57.420 --> 01:26:00.779
The colour of their of their cloaks is exactly the same as the

2070
01:26:00.779 --> 01:26:01.979
colour of the surrounding ground.

2071
01:26:03.300 --> 01:26:05.760
It's incredibly effective because you do get those shots where

2072
01:26:05.760 --> 01:26:08.220
they're just on the edge of shot and you don't realise until the

2073
01:26:08.220 --> 01:26:10.859
end because they move and they start following the doctor or

2074
01:26:10.859 --> 01:26:11.460
Sarah.

2075
01:26:11.520 --> 01:26:12.659
It's so well done.

2076
01:26:12.720 --> 01:26:14.819
Did you know, did you read in the notes that there were 2 blokes

2077
01:26:14.819 --> 01:26:16.319
when they were doing the outside shop?

2078
01:26:16.319 --> 01:26:18.840
They were left alone, left behind for their tea break because they

2079
01:26:18.840 --> 01:26:21.899
had to be got down off this cliff face and they were left up there

2080
01:26:21.899 --> 01:26:24.060
while everyone went off fatigue because I couldn't see him because

2081
01:26:24.060 --> 01:26:25.140
they just looked like...

2082
01:26:25.199 --> 01:26:28.800
And there was another 2 who didn't turn up for their shot and then

2083
01:26:28.800 --> 01:26:30.840
couldn't be found and it took 20 minutes to find them.

2084
01:26:30.899 --> 01:26:33.840
And all that had happened was they'd laid down 20 metres away.

2085
01:26:33.840 --> 01:26:36.239
And people couldn't see them.

2086
01:26:36.300 --> 01:26:38.100
They just might, I think, sang 2 blokes.

2087
01:26:38.880 --> 01:26:40.500
Sneaking off.

2088
01:26:40.500 --> 01:26:43.800
I think it's actually Jennifer French and Dawnsaw.

2089
01:26:44.220 --> 01:26:45.779
I think so.

2090
01:26:45.779 --> 01:26:46.560
What?

2091
01:26:46.619 --> 01:26:47.699
I think it was too.

2092
01:26:47.760 --> 01:26:48.720
We were Silurians.

2093
01:26:48.720 --> 01:26:50.579
I know.

2094
01:26:50.640 --> 01:26:53.100
And we mentioned when we were talking about antecedents, we

2095
01:26:53.100 --> 01:26:55.260
mentioned, but we haven't mentioned Von Daniken for at least a

2096
01:26:55.260 --> 01:26:57.960
season because I haven't been here for a year, so we mentioned

2097
01:26:57.960 --> 01:26:58.920
Chariot of the gods.

2098
01:26:58.979 --> 01:26:59.939
Yes, episode.

2099
01:26:59.939 --> 01:27:01.260
Well, this was very big.

2100
01:27:01.319 --> 01:27:02.159
That was very big.

2101
01:27:02.220 --> 01:27:02.939
Oh, so big running up.

2102
01:27:03.000 --> 01:27:05.640
It actually came out in 68, but was still being talked about load

2103
01:27:05.640 --> 01:27:06.899
of old nonsense that it was.

2104
01:27:06.960 --> 01:27:09.779
But, you know, the hieroglyphs looking exactly like that Peruvian

2105
01:27:09.779 --> 01:27:10.319
city.

2106
01:27:10.380 --> 01:27:13.619
Well, we decided we decided that that becomes an influence in the

2107
01:27:13.619 --> 01:27:17.159
demons, obviously, because, you know, some aspect of human

2108
01:27:17.159 --> 01:27:20.399
mythology is tottered up to aliens.

2109
01:27:20.460 --> 01:27:24.119
And then the same thing happens again in the time monster.

2110
01:27:24.119 --> 01:27:27.359
And it is something that will happen as late as the Black Aquarium

2111
01:27:27.359 --> 01:27:29.340
movement, as we've talked about as well.

2112
01:27:29.399 --> 01:27:30.180
Sorry I wasn't here.

2113
01:27:30.239 --> 01:27:34.079
So here it is, you know, it's all vaguely Mesoamerican and stuff

2114
01:27:34.079 --> 01:27:34.500
like that.

2115
01:27:34.560 --> 01:27:36.119
But you know what it really looks like?

2116
01:27:36.180 --> 01:27:39.479
It's not the Lost Horizon ones, but the she, there were several

2117
01:27:39.479 --> 01:27:44.640
versions of the film She, including one with Ursula Andrus, She

2118
01:27:44.640 --> 01:27:49.079
which I barely knew to hunt down because it is as camp, as a field

2119
01:27:49.079 --> 01:27:51.239
of udters on milking day.

2120
01:27:51.300 --> 01:27:54.180
It is just oh, well, here we are.

2121
01:27:55.079 --> 01:27:58.920
But this one, I was also Edward Bulmer, Bulmer Litten.

2122
01:27:58.979 --> 01:28:01.380
You know the man who said, beneath the rule of men, entirely great

2123
01:28:01.380 --> 01:28:02.819
the pen is mighty and the sword.

2124
01:28:02.880 --> 01:28:05.220
Well, he was another writer haggard kind of writer and he was

2125
01:28:05.220 --> 01:28:07.560
writing all these, you know, jolly empire goes off and discovers

2126
01:28:07.560 --> 01:28:10.319
on, you know, Is he the man responsible for it was a dark and

2127
01:28:10.319 --> 01:28:10.920
stormy night?

2128
01:28:10.979 --> 01:28:11.819
I hope so.

2129
01:28:11.880 --> 01:28:12.060
No.

2130
01:28:12.119 --> 01:28:13.619
I think that was Charles Schultz.

2131
01:28:13.619 --> 01:28:17.220
But the land of the centre of the earth is the stuff he did, which

2132
01:28:17.220 --> 01:28:18.539
is very much the Solarians.

2133
01:28:18.600 --> 01:28:21.960
But the bloke I was thinking of, the RKO version from the 30s was

2134
01:28:21.960 --> 01:28:26.039
designed by a bloke called Van Nest Poglasse.

2135
01:28:26.100 --> 01:28:28.859
Now, is that B. Arthur's Drag Knight?

2136
01:28:28.920 --> 01:28:29.880
How good is that?

2137
01:28:30.420 --> 01:28:34.800
But yeah, he did a beautiful white ivory Art Deco city, which

2138
01:28:34.800 --> 01:28:38.460
looks just like this one and is also very gorgeous.

2139
01:28:38.520 --> 01:28:40.859
No, I love this city and I love, we didn't even know what

2140
01:28:40.859 --> 01:28:41.760
Jabberite was.

2141
01:28:41.819 --> 01:28:42.960
Did we, Brendan?

2142
01:28:43.079 --> 01:28:46.199
We didn't actually know that you could pour your mum's nail polish

2143
01:28:46.199 --> 01:28:46.920
remover onto it.

2144
01:28:46.979 --> 01:28:49.680
Well, we found out very quickly onto the packing, your fridge came

2145
01:28:49.680 --> 01:28:54.060
in and do a wonderful resurrectly, excellent city design.

2146
01:28:54.119 --> 01:28:56.039
Don't try it at home because of the Nox.

2147
01:28:56.100 --> 01:28:56.760
The gas was terrible.

2148
01:28:56.819 --> 01:28:57.479
No, I did it.

2149
01:28:57.539 --> 01:29:02.039
I built one and melted it and yeah, yeah, I had my little...

2150
01:29:02.100 --> 01:29:04.859
It just goes to show that how effective like radio phonic

2151
01:29:04.859 --> 01:29:07.500
treatment of voices can be because this, in this case, instead of

2152
01:29:07.500 --> 01:29:10.140
having Dick Mills, We have Michael Lee Bryant.

2153
01:29:10.199 --> 01:29:10.979
Oh really?

2154
01:29:11.039 --> 01:29:18.420
Julian Fox, who plays Hamilton and Joy Harrison are the voices of

2155
01:29:18.420 --> 01:29:19.800
the Excellon City dying.

2156
01:29:19.859 --> 01:29:21.300
Oh, yeah.

2157
01:29:21.300 --> 01:29:24.300
Yeah, all those screams and those screams are terrifying.

2158
01:29:24.359 --> 01:29:26.220
Well, she just discovered she's never going to work again.

2159
01:29:27.659 --> 01:29:30.420
You know, I really want to like her.

2160
01:29:30.479 --> 01:29:32.159
How can you not, though?

2161
01:29:32.220 --> 01:29:34.140
Yeah, I, in a way, I do.

2162
01:29:34.199 --> 01:29:37.199
I think, you know, I think she's fun and bubbly, and I think she's

2163
01:29:37.199 --> 01:29:37.560
a girl.

2164
01:29:37.619 --> 01:29:40.319
I think she's just being a girly girl and I wonder if we're all

2165
01:29:40.319 --> 01:29:42.659
being a bit too post-feminist and criticising her for having

2166
01:29:42.659 --> 01:29:43.979
sprained ankles constantly.

2167
01:29:44.039 --> 01:29:46.739
No, it's not the sprained ankles because she's written as a very

2168
01:29:46.739 --> 01:29:47.220
strong character.

2169
01:29:47.279 --> 01:29:51.420
It's just that every line she utters is always in the same tone.

2170
01:29:51.479 --> 01:29:56.579
You know, she's kind, she's either calm or panicked.

2171
01:29:56.640 --> 01:29:59.520
There's very little nuanced to the performance and that's what I

2172
01:29:59.520 --> 01:30:00.180
don't like about it.

2173
01:30:00.239 --> 01:30:02.279
I've got no problem with her role in the story because I actually

2174
01:30:02.279 --> 01:30:03.779
think she's getting quite a strong role.

2175
01:30:03.840 --> 01:30:07.020
And when she is prisoner of the Dalek, she doesn't fall to pieces

2176
01:30:07.020 --> 01:30:07.739
she's still resourceful.

2177
01:30:07.800 --> 01:30:11.220
My problem is with the performance, and especially because when

2178
01:30:11.220 --> 01:30:15.119
she gets those scenes opposite Liz, you can just see the massive

2179
01:30:15.119 --> 01:30:16.140
difference in acting quality.

2180
01:30:16.199 --> 01:30:17.699
Yeah, but also it's different characters.

2181
01:30:17.760 --> 01:30:18.060
Okay.

2182
01:30:18.119 --> 01:30:19.859
I mean, just to provide balance.

2183
01:30:19.920 --> 01:30:22.500
So I never noticed it as a boy and I certainly didn't notice it.

2184
01:30:22.560 --> 01:30:24.659
I've watched this story a couple of times because I just did the

2185
01:30:24.659 --> 01:30:26.399
per wee season myself a couple of years ago.

2186
01:30:26.460 --> 01:30:28.319
I like her very much.

2187
01:30:28.380 --> 01:30:31.079
The strongest supporting character for me, though, we've only just

2188
01:30:31.079 --> 01:30:32.520
touched on them, and that's Bilal.

2189
01:30:32.579 --> 01:30:33.779
Love that.

2190
01:30:33.840 --> 01:30:34.739
I love the costume.

2191
01:30:34.800 --> 01:30:35.460
Did you know?

2192
01:30:35.520 --> 01:30:37.859
I don't know how long they spent the time on, but it's in Barry

2193
01:30:37.859 --> 01:30:38.699
Litz's notes.

2194
01:30:38.760 --> 01:30:42.060
They also thought a continuing companion, at least for one more

2195
01:30:42.060 --> 01:30:43.739
story, would be Belal.

2196
01:30:43.800 --> 01:30:47.279
Well, since they didn't go with Jeremy Bullock from Time Warrior.

2197
01:30:47.340 --> 01:30:50.579
Well, Todd actually has a question about that in this regard.

2198
01:30:50.640 --> 01:30:51.420
Does he know?

2199
01:30:51.420 --> 01:30:52.680
There's something called...

2200
01:30:52.739 --> 01:30:55.500
It's like he's with us, even when he's spooky, isn't it?

2201
01:30:55.500 --> 01:30:58.619
In a huge hairdressing salon with a huge collar that he's got, and

2202
01:30:58.619 --> 01:31:01.800
all those plastic pipes everywhere. on that game show unit on

2203
01:31:01.800 --> 01:31:02.520
gallery gone.

2204
01:31:02.579 --> 01:31:04.260
There's something called a Bellau.

2205
01:31:04.319 --> 01:31:07.680
It's a shy, timid creature, but then gets a lot of plucky courage

2206
01:31:07.680 --> 01:31:10.140
and becomes a trusted and valued friend.

2207
01:31:10.199 --> 01:31:11.640
Everyone should have one.

2208
01:31:11.760 --> 01:31:16.979
But can Doctor Who ever do a truly alien companion full time in

2209
01:31:16.979 --> 01:31:20.159
the Tartars, experiencing adventures in the modern day?

2210
01:31:20.220 --> 01:31:21.359
I would have loved it.

2211
01:31:21.420 --> 01:31:22.680
And I was thinking the same thing.

2212
01:31:22.739 --> 01:31:26.880
Belal could have then the next story, we're almost up to that, he

2213
01:31:26.880 --> 01:31:27.899
would have fitted in perfectly.

2214
01:31:27.960 --> 01:31:29.159
Yes, very true.

2215
01:31:29.220 --> 01:31:31.140
I think that would have been fine and imagine him.

2216
01:31:31.380 --> 01:31:33.060
Oh, come on.

2217
01:31:33.420 --> 01:31:36.479
Please, let's not have an alien companion.

2218
01:31:36.539 --> 01:31:41.399
Like, look, Louise Jamieson, all apologies, although you're not

2219
01:31:41.399 --> 01:31:43.020
really proper. alien.

2220
01:31:43.079 --> 01:31:43.500
She a person.

2221
01:31:43.560 --> 01:31:45.539
And an apologies to Mary Tan.

2222
01:31:46.319 --> 01:31:48.300
That was a bit racist, wasn't it, racialist?

2223
01:31:48.359 --> 01:31:51.000
And Mary Term and Lala Wood apologies to you as well.

2224
01:31:51.060 --> 01:31:52.920
And Matthew Waterhouse.

2225
01:31:52.979 --> 01:31:54.239
Okay, that's right.

2226
01:31:54.300 --> 01:31:55.199
He was a Marchman.

2227
01:31:55.260 --> 01:31:57.840
And you haven't even mentioned...

2228
01:31:58.079 --> 01:32:01.619
Yeah, but I mean, someone in sort of a stupid costume.

2229
01:32:01.680 --> 01:32:02.340
You know what I mean?

2230
01:32:02.399 --> 01:32:03.720
They're shining front tanks.

2231
01:32:03.720 --> 01:32:05.100
Oh, I think that's what trod.

2232
01:32:05.159 --> 01:32:06.720
I think with Sarah...

2233
01:32:06.840 --> 01:32:08.279
Was Sarah Sutton's costume that bird?

2234
01:32:08.939 --> 01:32:13.859
I think that's what Todd means by someone truly alien.

2235
01:32:14.520 --> 01:32:17.579
I think it would have been beautiful and really interesting

2236
01:32:17.579 --> 01:32:19.380
because the actor who plays him.

2237
01:32:19.439 --> 01:32:20.340
What's his name, Alan?

2238
01:32:20.399 --> 01:32:21.479
Arnold Yarrow.

2239
01:32:21.539 --> 01:32:24.119
Arnold Yarrows, thank you, is so good again, these lovely little

2240
01:32:24.119 --> 01:32:24.659
gestures.

2241
01:32:24.779 --> 01:32:25.680
He's like a twig.

2242
01:32:25.739 --> 01:32:27.000
An animated twig.

2243
01:32:27.060 --> 01:32:29.159
Yeah, with opossum eyes.

2244
01:32:29.220 --> 01:32:31.199
Something you go and see at the zoo in the nocturnal house.

2245
01:32:31.199 --> 01:32:32.819
A BBC app.

2246
01:32:32.880 --> 01:32:35.399
Maybe 3 episodes is about...

2247
01:32:35.399 --> 01:32:38.340
I'd love to have seen him in Monster Paladon, and goodness knows

2248
01:32:38.340 --> 01:32:38.939
we needed him.

2249
01:32:39.060 --> 01:32:41.279
He's really just Wester with no clothes on.

2250
01:32:41.340 --> 01:32:42.720
I mean, Western...

2251
01:32:42.720 --> 01:32:45.359
Western... he sometimes wears clothes.

2252
01:32:45.600 --> 01:32:48.479
Not when he's hugging Lady companions.

2253
01:32:49.319 --> 01:32:53.100
Yeah, what is it with Terry and sort of name?

2254
01:32:53.159 --> 01:32:57.000
Well, maybe maybe Terry was a nudist at home.

2255
01:32:57.060 --> 01:32:57.539
You never know.

2256
01:32:57.600 --> 01:32:59.039
No, maybe he thought that...

2257
01:32:59.039 --> 01:33:03.539
No, he got arrays of wearing clothes were outdated and outmoted.

2258
01:33:03.600 --> 01:33:06.300
Well, his house was a very big, beautiful house, but it was in

2259
01:33:06.300 --> 01:33:07.439
Wales. would have gone a bit cold.

2260
01:33:07.500 --> 01:33:09.899
I like to think he was knocking around in those... in his dharma

2261
01:33:09.899 --> 01:33:12.420
in those...

2262
01:33:12.479 --> 01:33:16.079
I mean, another great thing about having Bilal in the plot is how

2263
01:33:16.079 --> 01:33:18.479
he interacts with Sarah James.

2264
01:33:18.539 --> 01:33:21.060
He's so lovely with Sarah and she's so good with her.

2265
01:33:21.479 --> 01:33:23.220
That whole kind of covering her mouth.

2266
01:33:23.279 --> 01:33:25.319
You look like a big talking twig.

2267
01:33:25.380 --> 01:33:27.060
I'm coping with.

2268
01:33:27.119 --> 01:33:29.579
Yeah, you know, no, he would have been a terrific companion.

2269
01:33:29.640 --> 01:33:32.460
I wish he'd stayed all the way through to survival.

2270
01:33:33.180 --> 01:33:35.880
It's one of the most natural...

2271
01:33:35.880 --> 01:33:39.239
That would have lifted vengeance on Barros.

2272
01:33:39.300 --> 01:33:41.159
It'll actually be our new thing.

2273
01:33:41.220 --> 01:33:44.520
We used to have what would...

2274
01:33:44.579 --> 01:33:46.560
We'll now just have what we'll do.

2275
01:33:46.619 --> 01:33:51.539
In every story, I'm now going to pop Balow in and see how...

2276
01:33:51.600 --> 01:33:53.939
He would have tried to hit the fuck up.

2277
01:33:54.000 --> 01:33:55.619
It merged with the wrong time.

2278
01:33:55.680 --> 01:33:57.300
Come on, Brenton.

2279
01:33:57.300 --> 01:34:01.560
But doctor, you must have the right to destroy the Daleks.

2280
01:34:01.680 --> 01:34:04.979
I'm doing hand gestures, deal with this. beautifully too.

2281
01:34:05.039 --> 01:34:06.659
I'd like to see cosplay.

2282
01:34:07.859 --> 01:34:10.560
Speaking of cosplay, Bonnie Langford is currently doing a

2283
01:34:10.560 --> 01:34:13.979
convention in the UK and I've asked my UK friends to show her my

2284
01:34:13.979 --> 01:34:16.739
Bonnie Langford cosplay to see what she thinks.

2285
01:34:16.800 --> 01:34:19.439
Oh, please give me a copy of it and I'll put it on the website.

2286
01:34:19.500 --> 01:34:20.340
I will.

2287
01:34:20.399 --> 01:34:25.979
But what I really love about Sarah J. meeting Balal. is it's one

2288
01:34:25.979 --> 01:34:30.239
of the most naturalistic reactions we've had from a Doctor Who

2289
01:34:30.239 --> 01:34:33.300
character, a human Doctor Who character, meeting an alien.

2290
01:34:33.359 --> 01:34:37.140
You know, she's she's scared of him and she is a little bit

2291
01:34:37.140 --> 01:34:39.840
repulsed by him, but eventually sort of gets to know him and

2292
01:34:39.840 --> 01:34:42.239
outlives her prejudice.

2293
01:34:42.300 --> 01:34:44.159
And we see it again the next story.

2294
01:34:44.220 --> 01:34:47.220
You know, Sarah is still adjusting to meeting aliens and what have

2295
01:34:47.220 --> 01:34:47.399
you.

2296
01:34:47.520 --> 01:34:49.560
Joe kind of took aliens in a stride a bit.

2297
01:34:49.619 --> 01:34:51.420
Joe didn't meet that many nice aliens.

2298
01:34:51.479 --> 01:34:52.079
Yeah.

2299
01:34:52.079 --> 01:34:55.439
Whereas Sarah Jane like meets 2 nice aliens in a row.

2300
01:34:55.500 --> 01:34:56.159
Very good.

2301
01:34:56.159 --> 01:34:57.600
We're fiddling with action figures.

2302
01:34:57.600 --> 01:34:58.500
Do this now while.

2303
01:34:58.560 --> 01:35:00.239
Yeah, we're multitasking.

2304
01:35:00.300 --> 01:35:03.539
Richard took my Idris action figure off the shelf and it's figured

2305
01:35:03.539 --> 01:35:06.300
out her hair comes off and it makes a sort of root and triple

2306
01:35:06.300 --> 01:35:06.960
high...

2307
01:35:07.020 --> 01:35:10.260
Because actually, I was actually thinking of something...

2308
01:35:10.319 --> 01:35:11.579
Britain hybrid.

2309
01:35:11.640 --> 01:35:13.739
Oh, look, there's so much fun you can have with this podcast, isn't

2310
01:35:13.739 --> 01:35:13.920
there?

2311
01:35:14.039 --> 01:35:15.539
What do we reckon about this story then, gents?

2312
01:35:17.460 --> 01:35:20.399
When are we going to start talking about Moonbase 3?

2313
01:35:21.119 --> 01:35:22.739
So much better.

2314
01:35:22.800 --> 01:35:24.119
I'm sure you will.

2315
01:35:24.600 --> 01:35:30.359
See, the 1st 2 episodes are rather sweetly, Planet of the Daleks

2316
01:35:30.359 --> 01:35:33.180
condensed to like a 3rd of its length.

2317
01:35:33.239 --> 01:35:34.800
And that's actually quite good. you know what I mean?

2318
01:35:34.859 --> 01:35:37.199
Like if we don't have all the interminable running around that we

2319
01:35:37.199 --> 01:35:38.399
got in Planet of the Daleks.

2320
01:35:38.460 --> 01:35:42.300
And then we throw that away. running around Paris.

2321
01:35:42.359 --> 01:35:47.220
Then we throw that away in order to do the visit to the Excelon

2322
01:35:47.220 --> 01:35:48.899
city.

2323
01:35:48.960 --> 01:35:50.640
And that is deplorably bad.

2324
01:35:50.699 --> 01:35:56.399
It's per twee, being impressed by touch screens, it's per twee, you

2325
01:35:56.399 --> 01:35:58.920
know, standing in front of front axial projection things.

2326
01:35:58.979 --> 01:36:01.020
He solves a very simple maze.

2327
01:36:01.079 --> 01:36:05.579
He gets terrified to the point of having a personal cliffhanger

2328
01:36:05.579 --> 01:36:09.000
when he comes across like a bath mat on the floor.

2329
01:36:09.060 --> 01:36:12.600
You know, like, is that the most spectacular moment in all of

2330
01:36:12.600 --> 01:36:13.319
Doctor Who?

2331
01:36:13.380 --> 01:36:15.779
That a line, oh, red light floor?

2332
01:36:16.319 --> 01:36:16.920
Well, you know why?

2333
01:36:16.979 --> 01:36:21.600
They lost, they were overrunning, and the actual...

2334
01:36:21.659 --> 01:36:22.920
So 3 underruns?

2335
01:36:22.979 --> 01:36:24.659
Yeah, it was going to be an antibody.

2336
01:36:24.720 --> 01:36:27.359
It was going to be one of the excellent antibodies.

2337
01:36:27.779 --> 01:36:29.760
I thought it was going to be the Dalek sneaking up behind them

2338
01:36:29.760 --> 01:36:31.140
with the door opening.

2339
01:36:31.199 --> 01:36:31.739
But I could be wrong.

2340
01:36:31.800 --> 01:36:32.699
I don't even know.

2341
01:36:33.840 --> 01:36:36.359
Like, how are the Daleks tracing their way through that maze on

2342
01:36:36.359 --> 01:36:38.520
the wall anyway when they've only got some...

2343
01:36:38.520 --> 01:36:38.939
They shoot it.

2344
01:36:39.000 --> 01:36:39.720
They shoot it.

2345
01:36:39.779 --> 01:36:40.920
They shoot it through the water.

2346
01:36:40.979 --> 01:36:42.600
I mean, it's just crummy.

2347
01:36:43.380 --> 01:36:43.859
Oh, please.

2348
01:36:43.859 --> 01:36:46.859
What you don't see, you don't have to worry about. terrific.

2349
01:36:46.920 --> 01:36:49.020
No, I just mean this bit of the story.

2350
01:36:49.079 --> 01:36:50.460
I love this bit of the story.

2351
01:36:50.579 --> 01:36:51.479
Yeah, me too.

2352
01:36:51.539 --> 01:36:52.140
I love this story.

2353
01:36:52.199 --> 01:36:54.539
I think it could have something to do with the fact that I didn't

2354
01:36:54.539 --> 01:36:56.100
have the ending of it as a boy.

2355
01:36:56.159 --> 01:36:57.960
So it had this mythical status in my head.

2356
01:36:58.020 --> 01:37:01.140
But as an adult, from a purely aesthetic point of view. got my

2357
01:37:01.140 --> 01:37:02.220
favourite pertly suit.

2358
01:37:02.340 --> 01:37:05.520
You know, the suit with the red piping and the blue shirt and

2359
01:37:05.520 --> 01:37:06.000
what.

2360
01:37:06.060 --> 01:37:09.479
It has that wonderful moment that sets the tone for the whole

2361
01:37:09.479 --> 01:37:12.239
story at the beginning when the doctor and Sarah step outside and

2362
01:37:12.239 --> 01:37:13.439
Sarah's like, oh, it's a bit cold.

2363
01:37:13.500 --> 01:37:16.199
I'll go back and get a coat And she says to the doctor, don't

2364
01:37:16.199 --> 01:37:16.739
wander off.

2365
01:37:16.800 --> 01:37:19.439
And he immediately goes, no, of course I won't.

2366
01:37:19.500 --> 01:37:22.560
Look straight at the camera, a huge grin on his face and wanders

2367
01:37:22.560 --> 01:37:23.819
off. bugger.

2368
01:37:24.659 --> 01:37:28.680
The story's so good, we get it back exactly in Pyramid of Mars.

2369
01:37:28.739 --> 01:37:31.380
Yeah, and again in...

2370
01:37:31.439 --> 01:37:32.340
Is it 91?

2371
01:37:32.399 --> 01:37:33.420
Anyway, we see.

2372
01:37:33.479 --> 01:37:34.319
Yeah, yeah.

2373
01:37:34.380 --> 01:37:37.439
She actually lampshades that they're redoing the excellent thing

2374
01:37:37.439 --> 01:37:39.359
because she mentions the city of Diego.

2375
01:37:39.420 --> 01:37:43.199
Even though she didn't see that, she didn't solve any of the

2376
01:37:43.199 --> 01:37:43.560
puzzles.

2377
01:37:43.619 --> 01:37:45.960
She didn't solve any of the puzzles, but she saw the hieroglyphs

2378
01:37:45.960 --> 01:37:46.739
on the outside wall.

2379
01:37:46.800 --> 01:37:47.520
Yeah, okay.

2380
01:37:47.579 --> 01:37:52.500
It's got that incredibly tense point of view sequence with Sarah

2381
01:37:52.500 --> 01:37:54.000
beating up the excellent.

2382
01:37:54.060 --> 01:37:57.119
When the music stops and you're just left with the noises of

2383
01:37:57.119 --> 01:37:58.439
exertion, it's quite...

2384
01:37:58.500 --> 01:38:01.380
Is this the thing with the, with the, the, the Bessie hand

2385
01:38:01.380 --> 01:38:01.800
starter?

2386
01:38:01.859 --> 01:38:03.000
Yeah, the Bessie hand star.

2387
01:38:03.119 --> 01:38:04.680
She doesn't have a lot of lines in this either, does she?

2388
01:38:05.100 --> 01:38:06.420
Bessie doesn't say very much at all.

2389
01:38:07.319 --> 01:38:09.119
And you know what?

2390
01:38:09.180 --> 01:38:12.960
I think that sort of bully atmosphere is maintained throughout the

2391
01:38:12.960 --> 01:38:13.199
story.

2392
01:38:13.260 --> 01:38:15.300
I love that's it.

2393
01:38:15.359 --> 01:38:16.199
That's why the story is.

2394
01:38:16.500 --> 01:38:19.319
I love the subterranean stuff and the doctor and Sarah wander

2395
01:38:19.319 --> 01:38:19.619
around.

2396
01:38:19.739 --> 01:38:20.100
And you know what?

2397
01:38:20.159 --> 01:38:23.039
Yes, it's padding, but you get such great things as like they hear

2398
01:38:23.039 --> 01:38:25.800
the roar again and the doctor says, oh, I think that's just the

2399
01:38:25.800 --> 01:38:26.039
wind.

2400
01:38:26.100 --> 01:38:26.699
Who are you kidding?

2401
01:38:26.760 --> 01:38:27.720
Myself, Gina.

2402
01:38:28.079 --> 01:38:32.880
I think that's one because, again, the doctor would never have

2403
01:38:32.880 --> 01:38:36.659
admitted that to Joe, that he was kidding himself because that

2404
01:38:36.659 --> 01:38:38.760
would have scared Joe, but he knows it won't scare Sarah.

2405
01:38:38.819 --> 01:38:42.539
Yeah, Kurt Wee is, despite the fact that he's getting a bit bored

2406
01:38:42.539 --> 01:38:46.260
and he does decide in this story to leave, he is still caring

2407
01:38:46.260 --> 01:38:48.779
about the character and presenting a different side to the

2408
01:38:48.779 --> 01:38:49.079
character.

2409
01:38:49.140 --> 01:38:51.119
It is in this story that he has decided.

2410
01:38:51.180 --> 01:38:56.039
Yes, I reckon it's the same where he's quoting Hamlet to the flex

2411
01:38:56.039 --> 01:38:57.300
hose off the vacuum cleaner.

2412
01:38:57.359 --> 01:38:58.920
With a sting pop of his.

2413
01:38:58.979 --> 01:39:00.119
Yeah, to do that.

2414
01:39:00.180 --> 01:39:04.800
Well, Xander reckons it's when he's just about through the maze on

2415
01:39:04.800 --> 01:39:09.720
the wall of that 1st thing that just sort of appallingly easy, um

2416
01:39:09.720 --> 01:39:14.340
maze where he's doing his touchscreen way through it.

2417
01:39:14.399 --> 01:39:17.579
I think that's... with the tinting comic skeletons everywhere.

2418
01:39:17.699 --> 01:39:22.140
I would say a big part of why he decided to leave was actually the

2419
01:39:22.140 --> 01:39:24.000
change in production schedule for this story.

2420
01:39:24.060 --> 01:39:24.600
Do you know about this?

2421
01:39:24.659 --> 01:39:28.619
No, if it was the 1st one, there'd be shot set for set, like a

2422
01:39:28.619 --> 01:39:29.220
proper film.

2423
01:39:29.279 --> 01:39:30.359
Like a proper, right?

2424
01:39:30.359 --> 01:39:33.060
Like a, but he wanted that. talked about that originally.

2425
01:39:33.119 --> 01:39:34.079
He did want that.

2426
01:39:34.140 --> 01:39:36.899
But I also believe that rehearsal period was truncated.

2427
01:39:36.960 --> 01:39:40.560
So rather than having enough time to get the story clear in his

2428
01:39:40.560 --> 01:39:42.779
head, he was having to jump around.

2429
01:39:42.779 --> 01:39:44.939
And we know he liked to be line perfect.

2430
01:39:45.000 --> 01:39:47.039
Or was he listening up by this stage?

2431
01:39:47.159 --> 01:39:50.760
Because we know how difficult he was, apparently, with Paddy. with

2432
01:39:50.760 --> 01:39:52.439
Pat Troughton on 3 Delches.

2433
01:39:52.500 --> 01:39:55.800
Pat would always, you know, in inferences lines and Purley was

2434
01:39:55.800 --> 01:39:56.399
winning this.

2435
01:39:56.460 --> 01:39:57.359
That's not scripted.

2436
01:39:57.479 --> 01:39:59.640
But again, it was just a lack of confidence perhaps.

2437
01:39:59.699 --> 01:40:01.979
He did like to be line perfect.

2438
01:40:02.039 --> 01:40:05.399
I mean, I think something that might have helped with filming it

2439
01:40:05.399 --> 01:40:09.300
like this was there was time then to say, oh, no, I'm sorry, I

2440
01:40:09.300 --> 01:40:09.899
messed up that line.

2441
01:40:09.960 --> 01:40:10.439
I go back.

2442
01:40:10.500 --> 01:40:15.539
And the DVD has about half an hour behind the scenes footage.

2443
01:40:15.600 --> 01:40:18.420
And there are several moments where Pertby's halfway through a

2444
01:40:18.420 --> 01:40:20.460
line and just says, look, no, I'm sorry, Michael, that was

2445
01:40:20.460 --> 01:40:20.760
terrible.

2446
01:40:20.819 --> 01:40:21.479
I'll give you another one.

2447
01:40:21.539 --> 01:40:23.880
Oh, I can't wait to spend half an hour watching those ones.

2448
01:40:23.939 --> 01:40:24.899
That would be terrific.

2449
01:40:24.960 --> 01:40:26.340
It's really crispiest.

2450
01:40:26.399 --> 01:40:31.439
You get to see, you get to see him working with Liz.

2451
01:40:31.500 --> 01:40:32.880
No, you don't get to see him square.

2452
01:40:32.939 --> 01:40:34.319
Dumb botherers.

2453
01:40:35.699 --> 01:40:40.319
We get that wonderfully touching scene in episode three.

2454
01:40:40.319 --> 01:40:41.460
With him and Joy, yeah.

2455
01:40:41.520 --> 01:40:45.479
Well, with him and... with... episode two.

2456
01:40:45.539 --> 01:40:51.060
With him and Liz, where Sarah's shown into the city and then he

2457
01:40:51.060 --> 01:40:53.819
turns around and says, no, you're not coming in and she and she

2458
01:40:53.819 --> 01:40:56.460
does the whole thing of, I can still come in and he's like, no, no

2459
01:40:56.460 --> 01:40:57.720
no, I need you to help the humans.

2460
01:40:57.779 --> 01:40:58.800
They need your help.

2461
01:40:58.859 --> 01:41:01.380
And then he and then she's like, oh, okay, well, you're giving me

2462
01:41:01.380 --> 01:41:02.039
something important to do.

2463
01:41:02.159 --> 01:41:03.119
You know, just getting rid of me.

2464
01:41:03.180 --> 01:41:07.140
And he then turns, but then turns back and says, and if I don't

2465
01:41:07.140 --> 01:41:09.000
come back, you must go with that.

2466
01:41:09.060 --> 01:41:13.079
I just reached out. absolutely miserable life in a plague ridden

2467
01:41:13.079 --> 01:41:16.500
cold, barren picture. having your perennium every day.

2468
01:41:16.560 --> 01:41:18.000
Excuse me.

2469
01:41:18.659 --> 01:41:23.039
Yeah, apparently that correct pronunciation.

2470
01:41:23.100 --> 01:41:28.739
Or is that Bob Holmes having a bit of sport?

2471
01:41:28.739 --> 01:41:29.340
I gather it.

2472
01:41:29.399 --> 01:41:32.399
I think it was in the original script and Vorp Holmes just pointed

2473
01:41:32.399 --> 01:41:33.180
out until it was too late.

2474
01:41:33.239 --> 01:41:36.000
By this point, um, Terrence Sticks...

2475
01:41:36.000 --> 01:41:38.880
For the listener at home, Terrence Sticks was...

2476
01:41:38.939 --> 01:41:44.819
Terrence Stix was eyeballs deep in editing in rewriting the

2477
01:41:44.819 --> 01:41:45.960
monster of Paladin.

2478
01:41:46.020 --> 01:41:47.220
Oh, yes, yes, he was.

2479
01:41:47.340 --> 01:41:49.680
Invasion of the dinosaurs, and this were essentially...

2480
01:41:49.680 --> 01:41:53.340
Well, let's find out. essentially invasion of the dinosaurs and

2481
01:41:53.340 --> 01:41:56.699
Death to the Daleks were entirely scripted by Robert Holmes.

2482
01:41:56.760 --> 01:41:57.119
Yeah.

2483
01:41:57.119 --> 01:41:57.659
Yeah.

2484
01:41:57.659 --> 01:41:59.939
It's darker, actually.

2485
01:42:00.000 --> 01:42:01.140
Yeah, it's darker.

2486
01:42:01.199 --> 01:42:02.460
They are a bit better.

2487
01:42:02.520 --> 01:42:05.399
They're a bit the wit is sharper, I think.

2488
01:42:05.460 --> 01:42:06.239
Yeah.

2489
01:42:06.239 --> 01:42:07.619
I think I remember.

2490
01:42:07.619 --> 01:42:09.539
There's so much in this story for me to love.

2491
01:42:09.600 --> 01:42:10.739
There's so much, isn't there?

2492
01:42:10.800 --> 01:42:13.079
Can we talk about Galloway quickly?

2493
01:42:13.140 --> 01:42:13.619
Yes.

2494
01:42:13.680 --> 01:42:14.159
Oh, yeah.

2495
01:42:14.220 --> 01:42:17.579
So, because Ferry Nation always has this sort of very gun morality

2496
01:42:17.579 --> 01:42:20.819
and people are very, you know, ends justify the means and things

2497
01:42:20.819 --> 01:42:25.199
and all the way back in Dalek Invasion of Earth.

2498
01:42:25.260 --> 01:42:28.560
You had sort of Jenny and she was very tough and hard and

2499
01:42:28.560 --> 01:42:30.119
practical and pragmatic.

2500
01:42:30.239 --> 01:42:35.279
And he have Galloway, and Galloway is prepared to, you know, let

2501
01:42:35.279 --> 01:42:39.779
the Daleks kill off Bel Isle and Bel Isle's people and kill the

2502
01:42:39.779 --> 01:42:41.819
doctor and Sarah and all of that sort of thing.

2503
01:42:41.880 --> 01:42:45.600
Is that when he says the only alternative to living is dying?

2504
01:42:45.720 --> 01:42:47.880
Is that when he...

2505
01:42:47.880 --> 01:42:48.779
Is that the doctor says that?

2506
01:42:48.779 --> 01:42:51.060
Oh, God, it's awful.

2507
01:42:51.119 --> 01:42:52.619
In a wet and claggy quarry.

2508
01:42:52.680 --> 01:42:55.020
I think that's probably that's where he says, this is it.

2509
01:42:55.920 --> 01:42:59.640
The only alternative to living is an exposition coma.

2510
01:43:00.479 --> 01:43:02.880
One knees up, mother brown.

2511
01:43:02.939 --> 01:43:03.600
One knee anyway.

2512
01:43:03.659 --> 01:43:07.500
So that sort of morality thing that you get and you get it in

2513
01:43:07.500 --> 01:43:09.060
Blake 7 and things.

2514
01:43:09.119 --> 01:43:11.220
And here it's kind of vindicated.

2515
01:43:11.279 --> 01:43:12.000
Do you know what I mean?

2516
01:43:12.060 --> 01:43:15.779
Like Galloway, Galloway is single-mindedly pursuing the whole idea

2517
01:43:15.779 --> 01:43:20.340
of making sure the mission succeeds and he's prepared to sacrifice

2518
01:43:20.340 --> 01:43:23.279
Bellow on the doctor and Sarah and all of these people.

2519
01:43:23.340 --> 01:43:26.220
But eventually it turns out that he's prepared to sacrifice

2520
01:43:26.220 --> 01:43:26.939
himself as well.

2521
01:43:27.000 --> 01:43:27.600
Yeah.

2522
01:43:27.600 --> 01:43:30.960
And it is a surprise to everyone to Peter and Jill and all those

2523
01:43:30.960 --> 01:43:35.699
lovely people that Galloway is going to blow himself up.

2524
01:43:35.760 --> 01:43:38.039
I don't realise it's going to happen until it actually does.

2525
01:43:38.100 --> 01:43:42.239
I remember being horribly, horribly shocked position when the

2526
01:43:42.239 --> 01:43:45.960
commander says to Galloway, you're not fit to lead.

2527
01:43:46.020 --> 01:43:48.000
John, is that's John Ebonett?

2528
01:43:48.060 --> 01:43:50.880
No, John Ebonieri's just sort of suddenly killed by an arrow after

2529
01:43:50.880 --> 01:43:52.140
15 lives, yeah.

2530
01:43:52.199 --> 01:43:53.220
It's really surprising.

2531
01:43:53.880 --> 01:43:56.640
Yeah, it's kind of like about 10 years ago. 15 years ago there. was

2532
01:43:56.640 --> 01:43:58.680
this film called Deep Blue Sea, horror film.

2533
01:43:58.739 --> 01:44:00.899
And Samuel L. Jackson's in that.

2534
01:44:00.960 --> 01:44:04.500
And Samuel L. Jackson got the script for it and turns sort of to

2535
01:44:04.500 --> 01:44:08.340
page 50 of 100 or whatever and is suddenly eaten by a shark and he

2536
01:44:08.340 --> 01:44:12.539
called the producer outraged and he said, no, I have worked too

2537
01:44:12.539 --> 01:44:15.119
hard to be given a role where I'm killed off.

2538
01:44:15.180 --> 01:44:16.260
I'm Samuel Ljack.

2539
01:44:16.319 --> 01:44:17.939
Like the 1st 10 films I did.

2540
01:44:18.000 --> 01:44:19.319
I'm dead before page 10.

2541
01:44:19.560 --> 01:44:21.239
No, I built up my career.

2542
01:44:21.300 --> 01:44:21.899
I'm not doing that.

2543
01:44:21.960 --> 01:44:22.920
And the producer said exactly.

2544
01:44:22.979 --> 01:44:24.840
No one expects you to die.

2545
01:44:24.899 --> 01:44:27.600
I think that's the same thing with John Abeneri. such a familiar

2546
01:44:27.600 --> 01:44:29.880
face that we think, 0 yeah, John Abenira. hes going to be the hero

2547
01:44:29.939 --> 01:44:31.260
he's got narrow and he's back and he's dead.

2548
01:44:31.319 --> 01:44:33.180
You know, it's genuinely shocking.

2549
01:44:33.239 --> 01:44:36.239
But it's when Commander Stewart tells Galloway he's not fit to

2550
01:44:36.239 --> 01:44:38.880
lead because he hears Galloway being sort of terribly ruthless and

2551
01:44:38.880 --> 01:44:39.720
pragmatic and stuff.

2552
01:44:39.840 --> 01:44:43.380
And Galloway says, oh, I'm sorry, Captain, I couldn't hear you.

2553
01:44:43.439 --> 01:44:44.100
Yes.

2554
01:44:44.100 --> 01:44:45.779
And just goes off and takes command.

2555
01:44:45.840 --> 01:44:48.960
I remember thinking that was terribly, terribly immoral when I was

2556
01:44:48.960 --> 01:44:49.260
a kid.

2557
01:44:49.319 --> 01:44:54.779
But that kind of hardheaded, horrible gum kind of morality is a

2558
01:44:54.779 --> 01:44:57.899
thing that Terry Nation seems to advocate for over and over

2559
01:44:57.899 --> 01:44:59.640
again.

2560
01:44:59.699 --> 01:45:03.659
Interestingly, the people whom Galloway didn't care, lived or died

2561
01:45:03.659 --> 01:45:05.340
the doctor, Sarah, and Balal.

2562
01:45:05.399 --> 01:45:09.899
If they had died, Galloway would never have got off the planet and

2563
01:45:09.899 --> 01:45:12.359
the like the mission would never have succeeded.

2564
01:45:12.420 --> 01:45:16.319
Well, in fact, Sarah saves the mission by swapping the perineum

2565
01:45:16.319 --> 01:45:16.859
with the sand.

2566
01:45:16.920 --> 01:45:17.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2567
01:45:17.699 --> 01:45:21.180
The doctor sends her off, as you said, to save the day and she

2568
01:45:21.180 --> 01:45:21.600
does that.

2569
01:45:21.720 --> 01:45:23.520
Because you don't want to get sand in your perineum.

2570
01:45:23.579 --> 01:45:25.619
No, very, very uncomfortable.

2571
01:45:25.680 --> 01:45:26.220
Yeah.

2572
01:45:26.279 --> 01:45:28.619
A couple of loose ends.

2573
01:45:28.680 --> 01:45:31.380
First of all, the Daleks threatened to fire a plague nestle at the

2574
01:45:31.380 --> 01:45:33.600
planet and nobody seems to put 2 and 2 together that there's

2575
01:45:33.600 --> 01:45:37.079
plague affecting the outer worlds. could have been caused by

2576
01:45:37.079 --> 01:45:37.979
plague missiles.

2577
01:45:38.640 --> 01:45:40.560
I love playing.

2578
01:45:40.619 --> 01:45:41.340
They do.

2579
01:45:41.520 --> 01:45:43.380
Typhoid Mary.

2580
01:45:43.680 --> 01:45:48.180
Also, not only is every Dalek voice in this story done by Michael

2581
01:45:48.180 --> 01:45:48.779
Wisher.

2582
01:45:48.840 --> 01:45:50.159
He does a good job.

2583
01:45:50.220 --> 01:45:51.960
I think he's better than the Skelton.

2584
01:45:52.020 --> 01:45:54.659
I like the way he Well, yeah, he is, but no one's as good as you

2585
01:45:54.659 --> 01:45:57.119
said it before, is David Gray and Peter Hawker.

2586
01:45:57.180 --> 01:45:59.640
I like the way that he stretches out certain vale sounds.

2587
01:45:59.760 --> 01:46:00.840
Yeah, so you get that.

2588
01:46:00.899 --> 01:46:03.659
Nick Briggs does that, does that all the time now.

2589
01:46:03.720 --> 01:46:06.600
And isn't it great that they finally got the settings right on the

2590
01:46:06.600 --> 01:46:07.260
ring modulator?

2591
01:46:07.319 --> 01:46:09.720
Yeah, yeah, they sound like modern dialects.

2592
01:46:09.779 --> 01:46:11.640
Except for the fact that Michael Wisher isn't using a ring

2593
01:46:11.640 --> 01:46:12.239
modulator.

2594
01:46:12.300 --> 01:46:12.720
Really?

2595
01:46:12.779 --> 01:46:13.739
That's just Michael Wisher.

2596
01:46:13.800 --> 01:46:14.340
Are you kidding?

2597
01:46:14.399 --> 01:46:15.600
That's just Michael Wisher.

2598
01:46:15.659 --> 01:46:19.380
He amazed Elizabeth Sladen because 1st of all, Elizabeth Sladen

2599
01:46:19.380 --> 01:46:21.420
did the whole Catherine Tate thing of going, what, there's people

2600
01:46:21.420 --> 01:46:22.380
inside these days.

2601
01:46:22.439 --> 01:46:23.220
She did not.

2602
01:46:23.279 --> 01:46:25.500
Apparently she thought they were about control.

2603
01:46:25.560 --> 01:46:29.340
But then she saw Michael Wisher with his microphone just leading

2604
01:46:29.340 --> 01:46:31.319
directly off and she said, what does that microphone connect to?

2605
01:46:31.380 --> 01:46:32.460
Oh, it doesn't connect to anything.

2606
01:46:32.520 --> 01:46:33.300
I can just do this.

2607
01:46:33.840 --> 01:46:36.479
You know, he's really that talented.

2608
01:46:36.600 --> 01:46:38.760
I like garlic, yeah, it's really good.

2609
01:46:38.819 --> 01:46:39.960
I love garlic.

2610
01:46:40.020 --> 01:46:41.340
We have had darlic can before.

2611
01:46:41.460 --> 01:46:42.720
We had it in power of the Daleks.

2612
01:46:42.779 --> 01:46:46.380
We saw the Dalek looking at Patrick Trout, but here they look down

2613
01:46:46.380 --> 01:46:47.760
that long shiny tube.

2614
01:46:47.760 --> 01:46:48.600
Alfoil tube.

2615
01:46:48.659 --> 01:46:51.960
Yeah, it makes them seem more trapped in a machine.

2616
01:46:52.020 --> 01:46:52.560
Exactly.

2617
01:46:52.680 --> 01:46:53.279
Yeah, yeah.

2618
01:46:53.340 --> 01:46:55.380
Because they've got a very tiny field.

2619
01:46:55.439 --> 01:46:57.960
It's real claustrophobic, is the point of view, isn't it?

2620
01:46:58.020 --> 01:46:59.460
I really liked it as a kid.

2621
01:46:59.520 --> 01:47:01.680
And also that you get the distortion in the field, which is kind

2622
01:47:01.680 --> 01:47:03.239
of like the Bernard Lodge opening titles.

2623
01:47:03.300 --> 01:47:04.979
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, echoed that.

2624
01:47:05.039 --> 01:47:07.020
You've got the rubbery excellence...

2625
01:47:07.079 --> 01:47:08.760
I think it would be terrifying being a Dalek.

2626
01:47:08.819 --> 01:47:09.899
Pay's good though.

2627
01:47:10.140 --> 01:47:12.300
Holidays are shit.

2628
01:47:24.359 --> 01:47:28.260
Though with our power restored, Unfortunately, that's all the time

2629
01:47:28.260 --> 01:47:29.520
we have for this episode.

2630
01:47:31.260 --> 01:47:36.000
However, special treat for you all, next week, Nathan and I will

2631
01:47:36.000 --> 01:47:39.239
be guest starring on the Trust Your Doctor podcast, where we will

2632
01:47:39.239 --> 01:47:42.960
be discussing the Mark Gatis, 3rd doctor novel Last of the

2633
01:47:42.960 --> 01:47:43.619
Gadarene.

2634
01:47:43.680 --> 01:47:46.979
So keep an eye out for that on the Trust Your Doctor podcast on

2635
01:47:46.979 --> 01:47:49.800
decorativevegetable.com.

2636
01:47:49.859 --> 01:47:55.079
We'll be back in 2 weeks discussing John Purby's last 2 stories

2637
01:47:55.079 --> 01:47:56.819
The Monster of Paladin.

2638
01:47:56.880 --> 01:47:57.720
Hooray.

2639
01:47:57.779 --> 01:47:59.880
And Planet of the Spiders.

2640
01:48:00.300 --> 01:48:04.920
In the interim, however, my body aches, what?

2641
01:48:06.180 --> 01:48:12.119
And next episode, we will also have a Berry special announcement.

2642
01:48:12.180 --> 01:48:14.819
So make sure you come back. somebody's pregnant.

2643
01:48:14.880 --> 01:48:18.420
Then they'll have to leave the show. just putting on a little.

2644
01:48:18.720 --> 01:48:21.060
Have another bit of cake, love.

2645
01:48:21.119 --> 01:48:24.899
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

2646
01:48:25.020 --> 01:48:26.760
Cheers for your forebearance.

2647
01:48:30.239 --> 01:48:34.500
You've been listening to Flatly and Charity with Nathan Buttonney

2648
01:48:34.500 --> 01:48:36.060
Brain Girls, and Richard Stone.

2649
01:48:36.119 --> 01:48:39.779
This episode, Sand and Your Brilliant, is recorded on Sunday, 10th

2650
01:48:39.779 --> 01:48:40.260
of May.

2651
01:48:40.319 --> 01:48:44.220
The next episode will be released on Sunday the 31st.

2652
01:48:44.279 --> 01:48:47.579
This episode is dedicated to the memory of Nathan's dog, Jackie

2653
01:48:47.579 --> 01:48:50.640
who sadly passed away on the 4th of May, 2015.

2654
01:48:55.140 --> 01:48:57.239
Let's pour some water.

2655
01:48:57.300 --> 01:48:58.739
What?

2656
01:48:58.739 --> 01:49:01.380
I'll say bottle of beer at the same time while you do that.

2657
01:49:01.439 --> 01:49:03.960
Got like a... girl.

2658
01:49:04.020 --> 01:49:05.340
Oh, girl.

2659
01:49:05.399 --> 01:49:07.260
Bottle of girl.