WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:05:21 1 00:00:40.560 --> 00:00:51.060 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast with an hour or so to kill on Christmas Day, and no real idea of what to do with it. 2 00:00:51.179 --> 00:00:53.100 I'm Nathan. 3 00:00:53.159 --> 00:00:54.000 I'm James. 4 00:00:54.060 --> 00:00:55.140 I'm Simon. 5 00:00:55.140 --> 00:01:00.539 And I'm a partially defrosted but very soggy emotional Christmas pudding for this one. 6 00:01:00.780 --> 00:01:10.920 Well, it's 709 episodes since the doctor regenerated for the 1st time, and he's going to be doing it again in about 57.5 minutes from now. 7 00:01:10.980 --> 00:01:15.120 So let's get on with it and discuss twice upon a time. 8 00:01:45.180 --> 00:02:07.560 Now, this is kind of an odd one, because Moffatt is riding with a particularly weird constraint, which is that really, this is an episode where nothing can possibly happen, because the original intention, I think, was for the doctor to regenerate at the end of the Doctor Falls and for the Moffatt era end there. 9 00:02:07.620 --> 00:02:15.300 But I think, and I could be wrong, I might put an updated version of this story in the show notes, if I am. 10 00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:20.699 But Chibnell didn't want to start his era with a Christmas special. 11 00:02:21.060 --> 00:02:33.840 And Moffatt thought that it would be a bad idea for Doctor Who not to have a Christmas special because the Christmas special slot was super important for the program. 12 00:02:33.900 --> 00:02:35.340 It was already reserved for it. 13 00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:36.539 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 14 00:02:36.599 --> 00:02:37.139 Yeah. 15 00:02:37.199 --> 00:02:47.759 And so he does an episode, but he does this very, very weird episode. and I think horse more common wise and no longer producing Christmas material. 16 00:02:47.819 --> 00:02:54.719 Nor is Lulu, and that's why we actually have a slot because all the other people we love are no longer here. 17 00:02:54.780 --> 00:02:59.580 Lulu is here It is actually a bit more common wise. 18 00:02:59.819 --> 00:03:01.740 It is a little bit. 19 00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:06.180 So what we have to do is we have to kind of fill this hour. 20 00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:18.539 And I think it's telling that not only does it start with this is a television program and here's William Hartnell turning into David Bradley in order to come onto our new television program. 21 00:03:18.599 --> 00:03:27.599 But then at the end of the episode, Hartnell gets put back into his television program and time freezes so that nothing can happen. 22 00:03:27.659 --> 00:03:34.919 And so this whole thing happens in this sort of weird frozen time in a couple of... 23 00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:39.000 There's quite a bit like a family Christmas here, I think. 24 00:03:39.060 --> 00:03:41.280 And so it does seem very thin. 25 00:03:41.340 --> 00:03:44.819 It is very, very clearly Moffat vamping for 60 minutes. 26 00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:50.699 Yes, I actually felt, because I didn't think I didn't dislike it, but I wasn't overly warm to it at the time. 27 00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:55.800 I really, really loved it this time because I think that watching it now with a distance. 28 00:03:55.860 --> 00:04:01.500 I think what it is is Moffatt's basically done the same thing that he does in time of the doctor because like time of the doctor. 29 00:04:01.560 --> 00:04:06.360 It's not really about anything and that nothing really consequential happens apart from the regeneration. 30 00:04:06.419 --> 00:04:11.400 And I think it just becomes this lovely, gentle study of the character of the doctor. 31 00:04:11.460 --> 00:04:13.979 I completely agree with you, Simon. 32 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:16.500 I love this story because of that. 33 00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:30.839 It is very thin, not much happens, but it deals with some like real intense kind of questions about what this character's purpose is, you know, like he's considering suicide basically at the end of it. 34 00:04:30.899 --> 00:04:44.220 Like, I'm, you know, like, if you were able to regenerate your body when you're dying, choosing not to, like, that is basically contemplating suicide at Christmas. which is, it's a pretty big kind of thing to deal with. 35 00:04:44.279 --> 00:04:48.839 And, and it's, it's not within a really thoughtful way. 36 00:04:48.899 --> 00:05:06.839 Um, and in some ways, she, like, you know what it reminds me of, in future hindsight is the end of the 3rd 60th anniversary special is shooty helping David's doctor start to work through his trauma. 37 00:05:06.899 --> 00:05:08.699 This is kind of like that. 38 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:19.860 It's him seeing himself at the end of his 1st life. contemplating not going on and then both deciding, yes, I won't give up. 39 00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:22.439 I find it really emotional. 40 00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:28.259 I think, in fact, the person who has the big character arc is probably the 1st doctor. 41 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:29.160 Absolutely. 42 00:05:29.160 --> 00:05:40.019 And that's what's super interesting about it because we get the 1st doctor and I think Bradley does an amazingly good job, actually. 43 00:05:40.079 --> 00:05:44.759 The more I see him, the more I like his version of the 1st doctor. 44 00:05:44.819 --> 00:05:53.459 I mean, you know, Richard Herndle becomes the 1st doctor at a time when none of us have really seen the 1st doctor in action. 45 00:05:53.519 --> 00:05:55.740 Just 9 seconds of Darlic Invasion of it. 46 00:05:55.800 --> 00:05:56.699 Yes, actually. 47 00:05:56.819 --> 00:06:01.139 Whereas Bradley really gets him, I think. 48 00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:03.360 He does a really, really terrifically good job. 49 00:06:03.420 --> 00:06:09.000 Bradley also says, you know, like every jobbing actor of the generation, it's the Colin Baker syndrome. 50 00:06:09.060 --> 00:06:10.860 Oh, I watched from the 1st episode, loved it. 51 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:12.660 Bill was marvellous. 52 00:06:12.720 --> 00:06:20.699 I think it actually treads the right line between parody and trying to just do his own version of the 1st doctor's performance. 53 00:06:20.759 --> 00:06:21.839 Yeah, yeah. 54 00:06:21.899 --> 00:06:27.959 Yeah, it's not just an imitation, his not Mike Yarwood or something doing a sort of comedy imitation of him. 55 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:31.079 I think he's really good. 56 00:06:31.139 --> 00:06:47.100 But the differences between him and Capaldi's doctrine, I think the big moment is where the doctor says to the glass woman, earth is protected and the 1st doctor goes, like, what? 57 00:06:47.100 --> 00:06:47.579 By who? 58 00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:55.740 And then you get all of that stuff about the doctor of war and you get to see what the doctor becomes like in the future. 59 00:06:55.800 --> 00:07:01.139 And then that lovely moment at the end where he says, oh, so that's what it means to be a doctor. 60 00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:01.680 Yeah. 61 00:07:01.740 --> 00:07:05.279 Like you're there to try and help and make things better. 62 00:07:05.399 --> 00:07:17.939 And it's actually an understanding of how the program works that isn't always there, I think, because the 1st doctor isn't what the doctor eventually becomes. 63 00:07:17.939 --> 00:07:20.220 Until the very end of his era. 64 00:07:20.279 --> 00:07:21.660 Yeah, until the very end of his era. 65 00:07:21.720 --> 00:07:23.339 And it's a gradual thing, isn't it? 66 00:07:23.399 --> 00:07:25.800 Gradually he gets moved to the centre of the program. 67 00:07:25.860 --> 00:07:29.160 At the beginning, he's just the crazy old man who gets them into scrapes. 68 00:07:29.220 --> 00:07:31.680 And he isn't the doctor yet. 69 00:07:31.740 --> 00:07:49.019 And so Moffat creates an origin story for this doctor in a way, and there's a series of important moments where there's the doctor of war moment where it looks like he might actually decide not to go in that direction because the doctor's sort of terrible and frightening. 70 00:07:49.079 --> 00:07:55.019 You get Bill hugging him and telling him he's amazing, which I think is really important there. 71 00:07:55.139 --> 00:08:03.720 And then you get that bit at the end where he witnesses the doctor saving the German soldier and Archibald, the captain. 72 00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:07.740 And I think all of that is just truly great. 73 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:21.720 And in a way, this is we take the 1st doctor out and we get the future of the program to kind of comment on him and then he gets sent back to become the hero that the doctor becomes, he's his own origin story. 74 00:08:21.839 --> 00:08:22.920 I think it's really good. 75 00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:42.539 It also reminds me a little bit of the day of the doctor as well. because you get a stand in for the classic series, doctors in the day of the doctor, in John Hertz, doctor, who is able to come in and comment on how stupid the 10th and 11th doctors are, how ridiculous they are. 76 00:08:42.600 --> 00:08:43.799 And we get bits of that, don't we? 77 00:08:43.860 --> 00:08:47.759 We get the sunglasses and the sonic screwdriver, the audio screwdriver. 78 00:08:47.820 --> 00:08:50.580 The kitchen for a French... 79 00:08:50.700 --> 00:08:50.879 Yeah. 80 00:08:50.940 --> 00:08:55.740 So he gets to sort of comment on that and it looks like he's not on board. 81 00:08:55.860 --> 00:08:58.379 I like where you're going with this, Nathan. 82 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:10.320 We also get a culmination of Moffatt's entire era and why this season is probably my favourite because he talks about it's it's Dickens and all quiet on the Western Front. 83 00:09:10.379 --> 00:09:18.240 But it is in sentiment, and I feel that Moffat is a very deep man who has allowed himself to go, and it's gone through terrible things. 84 00:09:18.299 --> 00:09:36.899 And so did Mark Gatis, and I believe that this is like sort of paying to the 2nd unofficial story runner, Mark, and a lovely moment for him, and also a moment about remembrance and contemplation, and the feelings of loss that Christmas will bring around you. 85 00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:40.500 So, yes, there's gayety and tinsel and snowflakes. 86 00:09:40.559 --> 00:09:44.700 But, you know, as he says, this is cold to the touch. 87 00:09:44.700 --> 00:09:49.860 And holding that is painful and burns you. 88 00:09:49.919 --> 00:09:51.899 This is a burning story. 89 00:09:51.960 --> 00:10:01.259 And if you really do allow this to just sit and it's quite subsuming and moving in a way that there aren't many shows like Doctor Who that can do this. 90 00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:08.039 And it's not just, it's the gravity or density of mass, but it's also the gravitas of it. 91 00:10:08.100 --> 00:10:10.019 It's very nicely done. 92 00:10:10.080 --> 00:10:35.340 I'm looking back at this, I want to know what you will think at the end of this, but Stephen Moffat has really come out on a golden limb of skill, considering how quickly you have to do things and how we remember Mark wasn't available to help for Sherlock because of all the tragedies that were going on for him and then Stephen was having all of those awful problems as well going on personally and just to be able to pull all of this together. 93 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:42.059 You tell me, but David Bradley and our lovely mate, lovely Pete, really are perfect. 94 00:10:42.059 --> 00:10:56.519 And I really would love speaking welcome and wise, a little Christmas special with just the 2 of them, playing silly buggers behind the curtains and doing actually just an hour of comedic routine and maybe some of those old sketches, because they'd be hilarious. 95 00:10:56.580 --> 00:10:59.820 And they can do the high and the low together. 96 00:10:59.940 --> 00:11:00.899 It gorgeous. really is. 97 00:11:06.960 --> 00:11:12.059 I mean, their reputation is that this episode was written in a terrible hurry and wasn't planned, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 98 00:11:12.120 --> 00:11:28.559 But I think like so many of the great Doctor Who stories, something wonderful has come out of that because he's done something that I think he's always been in the back of his mind and he's always been thinking about, and it actually is much better crafted than I think we thought it was back in the day, much better. 99 00:11:28.620 --> 00:11:39.299 Yes, I agree with you, Simon, it's that necessity to get something written in such a short period of time has kind of led to a bit of a gem in a way. 100 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:40.860 You've got a great cast. 101 00:11:40.919 --> 00:11:42.419 It's a small cast. 102 00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:45.659 And they riff off each other. 103 00:11:45.720 --> 00:11:51.720 There's discussions of loss and love and friendship and what it means to be alive. 104 00:11:52.019 --> 00:11:57.899 I wholeheartedly disagree with the received fan wisdom that this is a bit crap. 105 00:11:57.960 --> 00:12:05.879 So I have to say that at the time, and I've talked about the circumstances under which I watched this before and I'm not going to do it again. 106 00:12:05.940 --> 00:12:11.759 Partly because it is, the doctor spending an hour deciding whether or not to kill himself at Christmas. 107 00:12:11.820 --> 00:12:13.500 I think that is kind of miserable. 108 00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:14.759 I buy it now. 109 00:12:14.820 --> 00:12:20.100 I like it better now, although I think it is the most undercooked part of the actual episode. 110 00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:22.080 Maybe we can talk about why. 111 00:12:22.500 --> 00:12:30.179 And also, I think by that point I was getting a bit weary of the doctor's kind of low-level self-hatred. 112 00:12:30.179 --> 00:12:33.779 And it's critiqued here a little bit by Bill, isn't it? 113 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:46.860 You know, the doctor never realises that he's the person who goes around fixing the universe and making everything better, and he's spending all of this time in self-critique, and he never kind of ever properly learns it. 114 00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:49.740 And I do like Until his final speech, basically. 115 00:12:49.799 --> 00:12:51.419 Yeah, well, even the final speech. 116 00:12:51.480 --> 00:13:00.659 I mean, I just remember that moment of relief when Jody turned up and she sees herself in the screen and smiles and says, brilliant. 117 00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:06.600 And you just think, wow, you know, there's some real enthusiasm about being the doctor back. the end of the era of man pain. 118 00:13:06.659 --> 00:13:09.240 Yes, I think that's what I said at the time. 119 00:13:09.299 --> 00:13:10.320 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 120 00:13:10.740 --> 00:13:24.960 There is a sort of thread of criticism here, which sees this as a real kind of betrayal of the character of the 1st doctor, and it is because of the sexism. 121 00:13:25.019 --> 00:13:34.320 I think it's hard to object to the jolly good smacked bottom line given that the 1st doctor actually does say that. 122 00:13:34.379 --> 00:13:37.500 Yes, but to someone who is, he's supposed to be his granddaughter. 123 00:13:37.559 --> 00:13:40.080 Not just some random woman he's barely met. 124 00:13:40.139 --> 00:13:46.080 That's right But, you know, the stuff about Polly cleaning the TARDIS and all of that sort of thing. 125 00:13:46.139 --> 00:13:51.960 Well, Barbara does say, is it in the web planet or the chase, and it says, one of these days, doctor, I'm going to have a jolly good spring cleaner around here. 126 00:13:52.019 --> 00:13:52.919 Yeah. 127 00:13:52.980 --> 00:14:08.940 And in essence, I think that what's happening here is, remember that the 1st doctor in this episode is plucked out of a place 709 episodes ago and he's put back into the television program at the end. 128 00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:25.860 He's a character from TV, and in a way, he's standing for the whole show, a version of the show where the doctor isn't the hero yet and a version of the show that is, however much we might not want it to be the case, kind of sexist. 129 00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:28.500 Yeah, pretty problematic in places. 130 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:29.159 Yeah, yeah. 131 00:14:29.220 --> 00:14:42.299 That's why I don't have a problem with it because the character in the 60s is an old man who's a bit, you know, he's a bit close-minded, he's a bit sharp, he's a bit difficult with people. 132 00:14:42.360 --> 00:14:51.720 I don't really have a problem with the sexism because it kind of actually feels right that he would have those antiquated views. 133 00:14:51.779 --> 00:15:03.899 I, at the time, was a little bit grumpy about the portrayal of the 1st doctor because I, what I felt was that they were confusing, deliberately confusing, the actor with the character. 134 00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:12.299 And, you know, we heard stories about, you know, Bill leaving the driver out on the cold and so on because he's quote unquote, only the driver and all those sorts of stories that have come mainly from Anika. 135 00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:12.720 Yes. 136 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:16.559 But watching it again now. 137 00:15:16.620 --> 00:15:31.440 It's not so much that I forgave that, but when I saw it all in a different light because as what you're saying, Nathan, a slight variation in what you're saying, the David Bradley doctor represents the show as it was how many years ago it was at the time. 138 00:15:31.500 --> 00:15:41.279 And so they're using that to reflect on the kind of things we watched on television, or others watched on television, and the way it treated women and so on. 139 00:15:41.340 --> 00:15:54.360 Now, fortunately, we don't get into any kind of other aspects, like race issues, for example, and it kind of, it's all just distilled into the idea of, well, women are around to do the cleaning, and women are nurses, not men, and all that kind of stuff that's there. 140 00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:57.899 I would actually go further than that. 141 00:15:57.960 --> 00:16:02.940 I would say that his character possibly stands in for all of television of that era. 142 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:04.379 Not just... 143 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:05.399 Well, no, exactly. 144 00:16:05.460 --> 00:16:11.879 I mean, but basically, remember, we are talking and you know, the actor playing the because Capaldi and Hartnell are roughly the same age, aren't they? 145 00:16:11.940 --> 00:16:15.059 Yeah, Kelty is older in this than Hartnell was. 146 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:16.320 At the end of his run. 147 00:16:16.379 --> 00:16:17.100 At the end of his run? 148 00:16:17.159 --> 00:16:19.320 Yes, because they're the same age when he starts. 149 00:16:19.379 --> 00:16:19.919 Right. 150 00:16:19.980 --> 00:16:22.679 And of course, he's there a bit longer because of, yeah, production time. 151 00:16:22.740 --> 00:16:25.620 But Hartnell is born in, what, 19078, something like that. 152 00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:31.860 You know, he's lived through 2 world wars, et cetera, et cetera, you know, the shape of a country is very, very different. 153 00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:33.480 And that is kind of now reflected. 154 00:16:33.539 --> 00:16:35.940 You see that reflected in what they're giving it. 155 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:41.519 But what I like is that I don't think it's too judgy about it. 156 00:16:41.580 --> 00:16:55.799 Like, I think I would have been more upset if they were trying to judge that character for it because you've got the Mark Gates's character, to kind of that he can kind of play off. and it's, oh, that's a fair and circular, oh, he has water. you know, that kind of thing. and we're laughing. 157 00:16:55.860 --> 00:17:00.059 And where, and where, and where, yes, and we're, and we're laughing at that. 158 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:05.819 We're laughing at them a little bit, but it's gentle enough that I don't think it's saying how awful these people were. 159 00:17:05.940 --> 00:17:10.559 Yeah, we're not cancelling because of products because of their because they're just the products of their era. 160 00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:12.000 Yes, yeah. 161 00:17:12.059 --> 00:17:13.140 Agreed. 162 00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:14.519 And the show was a product of its era. 163 00:17:14.579 --> 00:17:18.299 And they lived through many Christmases of the black and white minstrels. 164 00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:19.079 Yes. 165 00:17:19.079 --> 00:17:20.519 Right up until the 80s. 166 00:17:20.579 --> 00:17:21.960 They suffered that generation. 167 00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:41.940 Of course, the other thing is that at Christmas, those kinds of conversations had with your elderly relatives all the time and having to tell them that they can't say this now and all of that is probably happening in the homes of the people watching it. 168 00:17:42.059 --> 00:17:57.900 The best, the best part of those interactions is the, is Bill, like revealing her sexuality to the man that, them being speechless because they're, these 2 old white men weren't quite old, but 2 old-fashioned white men who, it's wonderful. 169 00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:01.019 What is this heavy industrial strength lesbian is immortal? 170 00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:07.680 So she says that she's had plenty of experience with the uh, with the fairer sex, which is actually pretty great. 171 00:18:07.740 --> 00:18:13.619 And it's also a testament to how far the show has come as well. 172 00:18:13.619 --> 00:18:16.920 And all of that stuff is entirely. 173 00:18:16.980 --> 00:18:29.579 I think in the project of the episode, which is here, you know, at the end of a huge era of the show, let's reevaluate, you know, where it's come from and how we started. 174 00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:33.720 Do you reckon Leila actually hang back at the Capitol to hang out with Rodan? 175 00:18:33.779 --> 00:18:36.180 for sure I think we're redacting. 176 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:49.019 The interesting thing, though, that I'm always a bit kind of unsure about how you should do a contemporary character expressing their sexuality to someone from the past because of the different moral codes of the era. 177 00:18:49.079 --> 00:19:00.119 I'm not 100% on board with the way it's done here, but at the same time, I think that the reaction that I see from David Bradley's doctor and Mark Gates is, is, is more kind of a, these things aren't talked about. 178 00:19:00.180 --> 00:19:03.119 It's comedy boggle reaction. 179 00:19:03.180 --> 00:19:04.380 It's a comedy boggle reaction. 180 00:19:04.500 --> 00:19:04.680 Exactly. 181 00:19:04.740 --> 00:19:06.000 It's just done for laughs. 182 00:19:06.059 --> 00:19:07.259 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 183 00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:14.160 No, it's not moral disapprobation or anything like that, which is funny. and it puts that doctor on the back foot. 184 00:19:14.220 --> 00:19:16.920 And but not in a terminal way. 185 00:19:16.980 --> 00:19:21.960 I mean, she is there at the end of the episode telling him how great he is and giving him that hug. 186 00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:25.319 When they're out on Villengard. 187 00:19:25.319 --> 00:19:26.099 The villain guard. 188 00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:30.960 Someone really needs to let shoot you know he's not pronouncing that, right? 189 00:19:31.019 --> 00:19:33.299 No, I think everyone else is pronouncing it incorrectly. 190 00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:33.839 Exactly. 191 00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:35.279 Spiriton. 192 00:19:35.339 --> 00:19:36.839 Yeah, exactly. 193 00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:37.920 Metabolist. 194 00:19:37.980 --> 00:19:44.279 Where she asks him, why did you run away, you know, what did you run to? 195 00:19:45.420 --> 00:19:52.859 And so I always I always looked at that and went, oh, but we just had that last season. with the whole hype thing, but it's not. 196 00:19:52.980 --> 00:19:54.779 It's not the same conversation. 197 00:19:54.839 --> 00:19:59.400 It's the hybrid is I was running away because I was scared of what I might become. 198 00:19:59.460 --> 00:20:02.460 And this conversation is, where were you going? 199 00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:04.140 Like, where did you run too? 200 00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:10.019 So, like, I was quite critical of that being so soon after another reason for leaving Gala. 201 00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:11.579 I kind of missed the point. 202 00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:13.980 No, this is a different conversation. 203 00:20:14.039 --> 00:20:27.900 Yeah, and it's a conversation about the difference between the 1st doctor and Capaldi's doctor, you know, the gradual transformation that that 1st doctor undergoes to become the star of the show. 204 00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:36.960 And then the hero of the program, you know, to the point where he's the person who holds that universe that he inhabits together. 205 00:20:37.019 --> 00:20:41.460 He's the one who ensures that good is rewarded and stuff. 206 00:20:41.579 --> 00:20:54.960 And, you know, that's kind of an overstatement and people kind of dislike the idea that the doctor's a superhero, but that's Bean Moffatt's take on the character because he inherits the show after 30 seasons or something, you know. 207 00:20:55.019 --> 00:20:58.980 Was anyone else thinking back to the literary antecedents? 208 00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:06.180 I was thinking of Burt Facy, you know, fortunate life, not in the incidents, but just in the tonality, and there's an innocence. 209 00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:13.200 There's a wonderful innocence to David Bradley's doctor, and again, which comes out as grandpa sexism and grandpa or the rest of it. 210 00:21:13.259 --> 00:21:18.059 I'm ignorant and innocence, both, you know, hold hands on that sudet and line. 211 00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:25.079 But there is just the sweetness, I feel, it's, Dickens is, it nails it for me. 212 00:21:25.140 --> 00:21:42.839 It's Moffatt looking at what Doctor Who has been all the years that he loved it and RTD loved it and everybody else and Mr. Chibnall, all loved it in their own ways and for different reasons, and this is, I feel Stephen saying, this is why it always worked because of the frailty. 213 00:21:42.900 --> 00:21:44.339 So you're talking about the superhero thing. 214 00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:46.200 He's played with those memes, hasn't he? 215 00:21:46.259 --> 00:21:53.220 And with Matt saying, well, I, the very 1st moment with a massive floating Kenny Everett space cadet eyeball. 216 00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:55.859 Well, I'm the doctor, so basically run. 217 00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:57.779 Yeah, in his best posh boy film. 218 00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:06.420 And I thought, I don't know that I want, but I get why you're doing that because of how Russell, in the end, had David Tennant's doctor had become so big, he had to fall. 219 00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:18.299 So I do believe that perhaps, because Stephen Moffatt, although he's a gentle and kind man, he doesn't mind pointing things out and there's that, the writer, the writer's incision, the pen has a sharp point. 220 00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:25.319 So he might actually be playing with, well, Russell, you were doing this with the doctor, but I'm showing everybody that's only the surface underneath. 221 00:22:25.380 --> 00:22:28.200 There are just catacombs of frailty. 222 00:22:40.259 --> 00:22:43.680 The TARDIS console were in beautifully reconstruct. 223 00:22:43.740 --> 00:22:45.599 I mean, as we saw in adventure space and time, anyway. 224 00:22:45.660 --> 00:22:52.859 Just things like that, even though I think that the bend at the beginning is quite rubbish and wrong, but... 225 00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:54.420 Just too tall, I think. 226 00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:55.920 Well, just too tall and just too wrong. 227 00:22:55.980 --> 00:22:56.880 I just think he's wrong. 228 00:22:56.940 --> 00:23:06.299 It's, it's, I think for someone who only has to deliver 2 or 3 lines, you find someone who is much more the spitting image and you, and you save the performance in editing if you have to. you know. 229 00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:24.420 But I loved all that and that's the thing that sort of makes makes you very warm inside my favourite thing it was when we're on villain guard and we're in the 1st doctor's TARDIS, the way that the doors open just out onto the set, you know, from inside. 230 00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:26.759 And from the other side, it's all black on the inside. 231 00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:28.559 Yes, yes. 232 00:23:28.619 --> 00:23:31.380 Like looking in, it's just black. 233 00:23:32.099 --> 00:23:34.680 I'm pretty sure they've treated that. 234 00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:38.579 It's not just the shadows they've painted out. the box to make it as black as possible. 235 00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:39.480 Yeah, yeah. 236 00:23:39.480 --> 00:23:43.019 But I was watching it again last night with some friends. 237 00:23:43.019 --> 00:23:49.019 And the way that the TARDIS studio floor, like, merches into the area. 238 00:23:49.019 --> 00:23:49.559 It's wonderful. 239 00:23:49.619 --> 00:23:50.519 Yes, yes, yes, yes. 240 00:23:50.519 --> 00:23:55.140 Sam, scattered across the front, like, where does the box end from the outside beginning? 241 00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:57.900 It's like Joe leaving the Tartars to step out. 242 00:23:57.960 --> 00:23:58.799 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 243 00:23:58.859 --> 00:24:00.420 It's just tremendous. 244 00:24:00.539 --> 00:24:01.259 I love it so much. 245 00:24:01.319 --> 00:24:12.420 And I remember when the show came back thinking, oh, you know, giving it the white wooden door is a stroke of genius because that was always a kind of weird realism. 246 00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:14.099 Yes, we'll just pretend we're not seeing. 247 00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:15.359 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 248 00:24:15.420 --> 00:24:16.859 But yes, okay. 249 00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:20.160 Didn't Russell originally have it just black inside? 250 00:24:20.220 --> 00:24:24.180 And one of the other producers or something said, wait a minute, what's going on here? 251 00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:24.779 We can't have that. 252 00:24:24.839 --> 00:24:28.680 He said, oh, well, if that's just the way it is, because of course, that's the way it grew up. just the way it is. 253 00:24:28.740 --> 00:24:29.880 And they said, no, no, no, no, no. 254 00:24:29.940 --> 00:24:33.000 And so then they had to go back and fix their early shot in whatever... 255 00:24:33.420 --> 00:24:33.660 I think. 256 00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:34.200 Yeah, yeah. 257 00:24:34.259 --> 00:24:35.400 Yeah, and to row. 258 00:24:35.460 --> 00:24:39.900 Well, maybe... in World War III. because that was the first... 259 00:24:40.019 --> 00:24:40.619 Oh yes, of course. 260 00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:45.839 And they did that and then they fixed it from then on because this idea that you don't see inside. 261 00:24:45.900 --> 00:24:54.839 You just seem black. isn't it isn't it lamb shaded somewhere in the classic era where they say it's the crossing over the real world interface and everything. 262 00:24:54.900 --> 00:24:56.160 Support between dimensions. 263 00:24:56.220 --> 00:24:56.519 Yes. 264 00:24:56.519 --> 00:25:00.059 And David, we describes it beautifully in an adventure with the Daleks. 265 00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:09.240 Which is why also you don't get, you know, when you're always looking out from the classic year console room, virtually always, apart from the early time, you just see black as well. 266 00:25:09.299 --> 00:25:10.500 And it sort of, so it does work. 267 00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:12.660 It's an interstitial... 268 00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:16.319 So it only changes when your perception changes when you walk through it because Doctor Who. 269 00:25:16.380 --> 00:25:18.960 I think I remember them digging with it. 270 00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:19.740 I prefer that. 271 00:25:19.799 --> 00:25:24.839 I mean, they deal with it in the secondary console room, don't they, by just having it a black space. 272 00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:25.740 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 273 00:25:25.799 --> 00:25:27.599 Yeah, yeah, yeah. kind of go sideways. 274 00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:29.279 Yes, they go they go side. 275 00:25:29.339 --> 00:25:30.660 There's an antichamber. 276 00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:31.619 Yes, yes, yes. 277 00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:33.720 Walk into and then outsideways. 278 00:25:33.779 --> 00:25:36.059 So you can never actually see the outside. 279 00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:37.500 That's great was good. 280 00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:39.539 But that set is beautiful, isn't it? 281 00:25:39.599 --> 00:25:41.880 I mean, it's so good that recreation is great. 282 00:25:41.940 --> 00:25:47.519 I noticed the wall, the curator's wall is there, probably replacing a photographic blow up, something. 283 00:25:47.579 --> 00:25:49.680 But it looks great. 284 00:25:49.740 --> 00:25:52.559 It's wonderful to have the fault locator and all of that there. 285 00:25:52.619 --> 00:25:55.259 It really, really does look really good. 286 00:25:55.319 --> 00:25:58.319 And Moffatt's toyed with that a little bit. 287 00:25:58.380 --> 00:26:01.980 I think we probably had it at the end of series nine, didn't we? 288 00:26:02.039 --> 00:26:08.640 a similar set, but this is kind of the most extensive recreation cause it's taken from an adventure in space and time. 289 00:26:08.700 --> 00:26:16.380 While we're talking about resurrecting great obelisks of the past, wasn't Carol Anne Ford going to be in this episode? 290 00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:19.319 Wasn't there fan rooms of the thing? 291 00:26:19.380 --> 00:26:25.680 I mean, I know that Capaldi really wanted a scene with her a cameo with her and he and Stephen were talking about it. 292 00:26:25.740 --> 00:26:28.680 I think there was some chatting back in the day. 293 00:26:28.740 --> 00:26:31.380 Because, I mean, she does come back, doesn't she? 294 00:26:31.440 --> 00:26:34.380 She is briefly in an adventure in space and time. 295 00:26:34.440 --> 00:26:36.059 Dave, your dinner's on the table. 296 00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:36.720 Yeah, yeah. 297 00:26:36.779 --> 00:26:37.980 It's not quite... 298 00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:39.059 No, it's not quite the same thing. 299 00:26:39.420 --> 00:26:43.319 It's not her stepping through the ruins of 22nd century London. 300 00:26:43.380 --> 00:26:45.299 No. and still here. 301 00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:50.819 That is the photo of her in the pilot on Capoldi's desk in his office. 302 00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:52.859 So we've got her and River. 303 00:26:52.920 --> 00:27:00.420 Yeah, they haven't got around to picking her up, taking her back to the time where I'm probably killing her off yet in big finish. 304 00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:01.259 The war, Susan. 305 00:27:01.319 --> 00:27:03.000 The war season war season. 306 00:27:03.059 --> 00:27:05.099 It's not really the wars. 307 00:27:06.180 --> 00:27:08.279 Nothing would surprise me. 308 00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:10.019 It's called Susan's War. 309 00:27:10.259 --> 00:27:13.680 But like the war, Susan, was right there. 310 00:27:15.299 --> 00:27:20.519 Maybe, maybe when she eventually... 311 00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:21.480 That could be the war, Susan. 312 00:27:21.539 --> 00:27:32.460 Yeah Were we wondering what had happened to Rusty? 313 00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:34.079 Oh. 314 00:27:34.140 --> 00:27:35.759 No, no. 315 00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:39.180 I can't even remember what Rusty was. 316 00:27:39.299 --> 00:27:41.039 Rusty was the Dalek from Into the Dark. 317 00:27:41.099 --> 00:27:42.180 Oh, that's right. 318 00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:45.420 That was a sequence, which I Having only watched it yesterday. 319 00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:46.920 I've now completely forgotten again. 320 00:27:46.980 --> 00:27:55.559 You know, when you open up the old box of decorations before you put them on the tree and there's always one or 2 that you'd made at school for mum more. 321 00:27:55.619 --> 00:27:57.000 I don't care. 322 00:27:57.240 --> 00:27:59.220 Do we still love it? 323 00:27:59.279 --> 00:28:00.240 Do we? 324 00:28:00.299 --> 00:28:02.519 I don't know. 325 00:28:02.519 --> 00:28:03.480 We'll just leave it there. 326 00:28:03.539 --> 00:28:05.099 It's incredibly thin, right? 327 00:28:05.160 --> 00:28:05.579 isn't it? 328 00:28:05.640 --> 00:28:07.680 Because we start off in Antarctica. 329 00:28:07.740 --> 00:28:15.660 We end up in that room, the Chamber of the Dead, which looks like the lightning temple in Tears of the Kingdom. 330 00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:16.799 It does, doesn't it? 331 00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:27.480 And then we are on Villengard to find out who those people are, like who the testimony is. 332 00:28:27.539 --> 00:28:32.819 We very quickly find that out from Rusty and then we just sort of fap around for a while. 333 00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:34.500 We go back to, you know, we drop. 334 00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:36.240 That is an unkind. 335 00:28:36.299 --> 00:28:38.400 Well, I mean, it's vamping in a sense. 336 00:28:38.460 --> 00:28:39.539 It is super thin. 337 00:28:39.599 --> 00:28:43.019 Like it is incredibly thin kind of plot wise. 338 00:28:43.079 --> 00:28:55.140 And I think the thing that Richard alluded to, and maybe that the dialogue starts to refer to at the end, is that there's a frozen wasteland and 2 battlefield. 339 00:28:55.200 --> 00:29:01.680 You know, there's nowhere comfortable or Christmassy or anything in it. 340 00:29:01.799 --> 00:29:04.140 All 3 of them are kind of harrowing playing. 341 00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:11.279 Yes, there's no lovely light reflecting from beautiful Christmas decorations, tree with some snow glistening on the window sill. 342 00:29:11.339 --> 00:29:12.720 That's right, sure. 343 00:29:12.779 --> 00:29:22.920 But then you also have one of one of the most sort of meaningful moments in sort of early 20th century wartime history, the Christmas armistices. 344 00:29:22.980 --> 00:29:55.680 And I can forgive it slack of comfort for showing that moment and that humankinders can overcome differences for that moment in time is that there's something really beautiful about showing that moment in a show which is just talked about war and death and and you know, what it is to be a good person and and and I can forgive the fact that it's not a comfortable little Christmas special because it does something meaningful with Christmas. 345 00:29:55.740 --> 00:29:56.519 Yeah. 346 00:29:56.519 --> 00:29:59.400 I was going to ask, is it Christmasy enough? 347 00:29:59.460 --> 00:30:01.980 I was actually going to wonder when I was watching it. 348 00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:04.859 I couldn't remember whether this was the 1st New Year's special. 349 00:30:04.859 --> 00:30:06.900 And then, of course, oh, no, it's the Christmas Armises. 350 00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:10.859 Of course it's Christmas because it's the least, probably the least Christmassy of any of the Christmas specials. 351 00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:24.779 I think it was great that they did the Christmas armistice, the kind of thing that we would hear about when we were kids, and I'd be curious to know whether it's the kind of thing that kids now find out about because it is that, you know, that extra distance ago, this remarkable moment in time. 352 00:30:24.839 --> 00:30:30.240 I was thinking of the novels we had to read at school, like Bert Facey, who died when I was in year age. 353 00:30:30.299 --> 00:30:31.980 I mean, you were a bit younger. 354 00:30:32.039 --> 00:30:32.819 Yeah, unfortunately. 355 00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:35.039 Yeah, he lived till 82. 356 00:30:35.220 --> 00:30:38.759 Yes, I mean, we remember World War I veterans. marching down. 357 00:30:38.759 --> 00:30:42.480 Yeah, and the indifference, actually, of our generation. 358 00:30:42.539 --> 00:30:50.339 Because that was, yes, that was the era when the post in the aftermath of Vietnam when we didn't appreciate these people in the same way that we do once again now. 359 00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:58.980 But the interesting thing with the Christmas Armistice, which is actually terribly upsetting is after they've played their football and they've tended to their wounded and they've shaken hands and probably exchanged stuff. 360 00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:06.660 They then wave at each other and go back to their trenches because tomorrow they're going to start killing each other again, which is actually probably the most tragic part of the whole thing. 361 00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:08.460 And a presage to the new era. 362 00:31:08.519 --> 00:31:16.200 So it is a thing that breaks out on the Western Front in various different places that Christmas because it's the 1st Christmas. 363 00:31:16.259 --> 00:31:18.420 No one has experienced. 364 00:31:18.420 --> 00:31:19.500 It's supposed to be over bakers. 365 00:31:19.559 --> 00:31:22.440 Yeah, no one has Well, in fact, Archibald says that. 366 00:31:22.500 --> 00:31:29.880 No one has yet experienced the full horror of 1915 where things get really very nice. 367 00:31:29.940 --> 00:31:38.579 And the people in command are furious about the Christmas armistice and give very strict orders that it's not to happen again. 368 00:31:38.700 --> 00:31:39.539 Right. 369 00:31:39.539 --> 00:31:43.500 And because people make accommodations, do you know what I mean? 370 00:31:43.559 --> 00:31:52.440 They're there for months just sitting there opposite one another and eventually people have kind of arrangements where, you know, they don't fire on each other when they're exercising or whatever. 371 00:31:52.500 --> 00:31:58.680 Like just little informal arrangements arise as a way of kind of just living in those circumstances. 372 00:31:58.740 --> 00:32:07.079 And the thing is that the Christmas armistice is the thing that the doctor uses to save Archibald. 373 00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:08.700 And there's a wonderful moment. 374 00:32:08.759 --> 00:32:14.279 There's a really crap moment where we hear the singing and Archibald goes, is that singing? 375 00:32:14.279 --> 00:32:16.920 You can't tell? 376 00:32:16.980 --> 00:32:26.220 Like, but there's a moment when the singing breaks out and you get a shot of Capoldi looking really shifty because he's engineered this. 377 00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:27.599 He sent him back. 378 00:32:27.779 --> 00:32:31.319 No, he sent Archibald back a few hours later. 379 00:32:31.380 --> 00:32:36.720 So instead of dying at that moment, his death is interrupted by the outbreak of the Christmas. 380 00:32:36.779 --> 00:32:39.720 So we just assume that the German soldier's been frozen for that period. 381 00:32:39.779 --> 00:32:40.259 Who cares? 382 00:32:40.319 --> 00:32:41.640 Yeah, yeah, yeah. right. 383 00:32:41.700 --> 00:32:47.940 And so he says something, you know, if I've got my timing right, you know, he actually... 384 00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:55.200 That's why he volunteered to take Archibald back rather than letting testimony do it so that he can save him. 385 00:32:55.259 --> 00:33:02.400 And it's saving those 2 men that persuades the 1st doctor that being the doctor is the right thing to do. 386 00:33:02.460 --> 00:33:04.380 And he's not changing history. 387 00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:05.880 He is a beard. 388 00:33:05.940 --> 00:33:06.779 No, no, no. 389 00:33:06.779 --> 00:33:18.420 In that, like, Joe, he's not making the history of 70s Doctor Who happen because he's already had his sons, which means that... 390 00:33:18.420 --> 00:33:19.799 Oh, yeah, if he had died. 391 00:33:19.859 --> 00:33:22.740 In terms of, sorry, Archibald having... 392 00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:24.539 Yeah, like he's not altering history that greatly. 393 00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:26.279 Archipur will just die slightly later. 394 00:33:26.339 --> 00:33:36.359 Fortunately, there wasn't a line in invasion of the dinosaurs where the brigadier talks about his his grandfather who died in the father who died in the trenches the day before Christmas 19th. 395 00:33:36.539 --> 00:33:39.059 So part 2 of this is boom. 396 00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:43.019 Oh, no, it is just beautifully done. 397 00:33:43.079 --> 00:33:47.099 I think I think it's lovely and I think not having a too Christmassy one. 398 00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:50.759 I think you get the spirit of Christmas without the visuals of Christmas. 399 00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:54.299 I feel it's the truth of Christmas, as we were saying earlier, is what it's like. 400 00:33:54.359 --> 00:33:58.740 But it's also that Doctor Who comes every year at Christmas. 401 00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:00.240 Doctor Who is like Santa. 402 00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:06.420 And in the curse of Fatal Death, Emma says that the doctor is like Santa Claus. 403 00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:08.820 And we now have the doctor arriving. 404 00:34:08.820 --> 00:34:12.300 Every Christmas, I think, you know, since 2005, this is 2017. 405 00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:13.980 Even when there hasn't been a proper season. 406 00:34:14.039 --> 00:34:15.960 Yeah, there's always been a Christmas special. 407 00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:19.199 And we've had the doctor equated to Santa. 408 00:34:19.260 --> 00:34:21.059 I think I was going to ask you, Simon. 409 00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:27.119 My favourite 2 Christmas specials, I would say, are a Christmas Carol, which I think is absolutely brilliant. 410 00:34:27.179 --> 00:34:28.860 And last Christmas, I think. 411 00:34:29.159 --> 00:34:34.920 And they're both incredibly Christmassy. so much so that last Christmas has Santa in it. 412 00:34:34.980 --> 00:34:38.639 But Santa and the doctor are equated in all sorts of ways. 413 00:34:38.699 --> 00:34:51.000 Even Moffatt's 1st regular episode doesn't Moffatt have the doctor go back in time and give Rose a red bicycle when she's 6 for Christmas. 414 00:34:51.059 --> 00:34:52.980 So he's Santa. 415 00:34:53.039 --> 00:34:56.400 Just it's a throwaway line of dialogue in the empty child, I think. 416 00:34:56.460 --> 00:34:59.880 And so the doctor is always Santa. 417 00:34:59.940 --> 00:35:04.739 And so here is the doctor saving Archibald on Christmas Day. 418 00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:07.199 The brigadier's uncle allegedly. 419 00:35:07.260 --> 00:35:12.059 Well, I think maybe it's complicated because there's some spinoff material. 420 00:35:13.019 --> 00:35:16.320 Estate was getting mountain thingy about it or something at the time. 421 00:35:16.380 --> 00:35:18.119 He was going to be the grandfather, you know. 422 00:35:18.179 --> 00:35:25.559 Mark Godas talked about how tearing up in the screw reading the script, realising this, I'm actually playing the grandfather of the brig, but anyway. 423 00:35:25.619 --> 00:35:27.119 Well, I mean, he is. 424 00:35:27.179 --> 00:35:31.679 There's nothing in dialogue that suggests he is, and it's the obvious thing to decide. 425 00:35:31.739 --> 00:35:43.619 There is some spinoff material that suggests that there was all sorts of adultery going on and blah, blah, blah, and that he's both his uncle and his father and all sorts of things that we don't really want to know and that don't care. 426 00:35:43.679 --> 00:35:44.159 And don't count. 427 00:35:44.219 --> 00:35:44.699 Exactly. 428 00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:48.599 More important. 429 00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:14.519 The other thing I noticed watching it this time round is just after the sequence where, you know, Archibald to say, blah, blah, blah, and we're obviously now moving to the final part of the episode, which we all know is going to be regeneration, et cetera, generation of both of them, and it's great that we see the heart on one too. 430 00:36:14.579 --> 00:36:17.519 But, I actually got this real case of Andrew Zani feel. 431 00:36:17.579 --> 00:36:25.079 And I know there isn't some Davison Moffatt's favourite classic series, doctor. an ear and so on. 432 00:36:25.139 --> 00:36:27.179 And I got this wonderful. 433 00:36:27.239 --> 00:36:33.300 I mean, 1st for a start, you get this wonderful in the music, this wonderful echo of Spiegel and Spiegel, uh, which is, it's Arbo pet piece. 434 00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:33.900 Did you hear that as well? 435 00:36:33.960 --> 00:36:34.380 Richard? 436 00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:37.440 Yes, it's very it's quite clearly quoting it. 437 00:36:37.500 --> 00:36:40.980 And that actually means mirror in the mirror. 438 00:36:41.039 --> 00:36:44.940 And it actually works really well because it's when the doctor, the 2 doctors are sort of talking to each other. 439 00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:47.039 You know, they're the 2 doctors in the mirrors. 440 00:36:47.099 --> 00:36:54.179 As a Louis Borker's line that a putt pert is also a fan of Borkers in the dream of the man who was dreaming the dreamt man woke. 441 00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:55.920 It's the beginning of the circular ruins. 442 00:36:55.980 --> 00:37:03.480 There's a whole lot of lovely Argentine, Spanish, you know, magic realism, in pets, work, and the subtleties of it. 443 00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:17.760 But it's almost the mirror thing, like there's a sort of certain through the looking glass nature of when you're comparing the 1st doctor with the contemporary doctor in terms of and all the things we've talked about before in terms of how the program, how life, how the world has changed. 444 00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:19.559 People have television, don't you? 445 00:37:19.980 --> 00:37:23.579 For example. have changed during that time. 446 00:37:23.639 --> 00:37:32.400 But it reminds me then of caves because when you've got Clara appearing and Najol appearing and so on and all that. 447 00:37:32.460 --> 00:37:36.000 There's this whole don't die doctor thing. 448 00:37:36.059 --> 00:37:42.480 Uh, you know, you mustn't die part of like the K's regeneration sequence and it just really, really reminded me of that. 449 00:37:42.539 --> 00:37:44.639 I don't know whether I'm stretching it. 450 00:37:44.699 --> 00:37:45.719 No, not at all. 451 00:37:45.780 --> 00:37:49.380 No, I did not realise that until you just said it. 452 00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:51.239 Yeah, it is, isn't it? 453 00:37:51.239 --> 00:37:54.119 3D. Yeah, into 3D, not floating heads version. 454 00:37:54.119 --> 00:37:57.539 You know, interactive equivalent of those scenes. 455 00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:04.019 And the great thing is that we've established because of testimony, even though, yes, this is not, in some ways, this is not really Bill. 456 00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:06.420 And the episode actually deals with this. 457 00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:13.019 It actually is Bill because it's the complete distillation of all her memories, all her everything, just recreated in this body. 458 00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:14.820 So what's the difference between that? 459 00:38:14.820 --> 00:38:16.679 And Bill a 2nd before she died. 460 00:38:16.739 --> 00:38:20.880 And it actually kind of deals with that, like, was there actually a difference between these 2 things? 461 00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:22.440 And the doctor is able to accept her as that? 462 00:38:22.500 --> 00:38:24.719 And then and then decide that he's going to accept. 463 00:38:24.780 --> 00:38:27.599 Finally, stop putting off the inevitable. 464 00:38:27.659 --> 00:38:38.340 Do you think that the Fajarians, Missy and Testimony, like, take little tickets so that they know what order to process the people on the point of death? 465 00:38:38.400 --> 00:38:43.260 I think like Santa Claus being able to deliver all those presents in a single ego. 466 00:38:43.320 --> 00:38:45.360 Sometimes magic can just happen. 467 00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:48.659 It is great, isn't it? 468 00:38:48.719 --> 00:38:56.159 And I do think that there's a sort of generosity in kind of fixing the doctor's memory about Clara. kind of nice. 469 00:38:56.219 --> 00:38:58.619 It's like that kind of, yeah, that was a stupid idea. 470 00:38:59.099 --> 00:39:06.000 It's like, I mean, we were made to, we were forced to wait for a while before Catherine Tate gets her memories back. 471 00:39:06.059 --> 00:39:06.719 Yes of the doctor. 472 00:39:06.780 --> 00:39:08.039 And again, that was a bad idea. 473 00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:13.440 It's wonderful hearing Capoldi say Clara again, which is just awesome. 474 00:39:13.559 --> 00:39:33.719 It does make me sad, though, that like I was sad when Matt Smith left, because I think both of them are brilliant doctors who both deserved more episodes, and my understanding is that they would have done more episodes, had more episodes, that we suffer. 475 00:39:33.780 --> 00:39:36.179 So basically each of them should have had a 4th season. 476 00:39:36.239 --> 00:39:39.960 But also, particularly Capaldi, should have had another companion. 477 00:39:40.079 --> 00:39:44.099 Like, it's just so sad when you've, even, you know, Davison's only around for 3 years. 478 00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:49.380 Lots of doctors are running around for 3 years, but you've got more people, more floating heads around the regenerating doctor. 479 00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:49.920 Do you know what I mean? 480 00:39:49.980 --> 00:39:54.480 And you sort of think, God, it's just really the people that are just here. a bit sparse, isn't it? 481 00:39:54.539 --> 00:39:54.840 Yeah. 482 00:39:54.960 --> 00:40:00.900 There's that, but then you have the beauty of, and we've talked about this in earlier episodes this season. 483 00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:13.980 The beauty of the cast in this season that we've just had with Capoldi, Pearl Mackey, Matt Lucas, and Cherl Gomez is one of the strongest casts this show has ever had. 484 00:40:14.039 --> 00:40:18.900 And it's really lovely getting Matt Lucas turned up at the end. 485 00:40:19.320 --> 00:40:19.679 He counts. 486 00:40:19.739 --> 00:40:20.880 Yeah, blah, blah, blah. 487 00:40:20.940 --> 00:40:23.340 Yeah, like Michelle Gomez should, frankly, turn. 488 00:40:23.579 --> 00:40:24.840 And the invisible hair thing. 489 00:40:24.900 --> 00:40:32.280 Like, you know, he has all of those silly lines about, like, changing his body or he was blue for a while. 490 00:40:32.280 --> 00:40:42.119 Like, just sort of strange lines about his physicality all the way through the season and now here, finally, it's canon that he has hair, but it's invisible, which I just think is great. 491 00:40:42.179 --> 00:40:50.699 And we also talked about the cuddle thing, which he did before, which is an improvised line by Matt Lucas originally, and now it makes it into the script, which is really cool. 492 00:40:50.760 --> 00:40:52.980 Does anyone else actually know where Nardle came from? 493 00:40:53.039 --> 00:40:55.079 I've watched this all this thing at least twice. 494 00:40:55.139 --> 00:40:55.619 No idea. 495 00:40:55.679 --> 00:40:57.539 He was the husbands of River Song. 496 00:40:57.599 --> 00:40:58.500 Yes, but he just appeared. 497 00:40:58.559 --> 00:40:59.099 Yes, yeah. 498 00:40:59.159 --> 00:40:59.639 He just appears. 499 00:40:59.699 --> 00:41:00.780 It is... 500 00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:02.039 It's like Mel. 501 00:41:03.119 --> 00:41:06.599 He's the Mel we we had all the time. 502 00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:13.920 It's just in the wrong place of the wrong time and gets, you know, eaten by a giant red robot. 503 00:41:13.980 --> 00:41:17.519 And that's reconstituted because we want him back in the show. 504 00:41:17.579 --> 00:41:18.239 Exactly. 505 00:41:18.300 --> 00:41:19.019 Like, yeah. 506 00:41:19.079 --> 00:41:21.599 I kind of love that you don't see that. 507 00:41:21.659 --> 00:41:22.260 He's just back. 508 00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:23.460 He was like, oh, I put you back together. 509 00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:25.199 It would be a crime if you did see it. 510 00:41:25.260 --> 00:41:28.800 Yeah, it makes him a strange sort of marginal figure, doesn't it? 511 00:41:28.920 --> 00:41:29.880 A jolly cyber thing. 512 00:41:29.940 --> 00:41:30.659 Yeah, yeah. 513 00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:40.199 So he only really properly becomes a companion during the course of series 10 and then here, he's definitely a companion because he's there in the farewell sequence. 514 00:41:40.260 --> 00:41:43.739 What about once he gets into the TARDIS, though? 515 00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:45.840 I think it's great. 516 00:41:45.900 --> 00:41:46.860 Okay. 517 00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:51.059 And I know that I don't know whether this is still regarded. 518 00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:57.179 Now as man explaining, but I remember back at the time, there was some critique of the speeches being mansplaining. 519 00:41:57.239 --> 00:41:59.219 I think that was always a joke. 520 00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:02.280 Like, I do think that the mansplaining thing was always a joke. 521 00:42:02.340 --> 00:42:03.480 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 522 00:42:03.840 --> 00:42:09.360 No, because I remember the original thing, the original thing of it. 523 00:42:09.420 --> 00:42:11.699 I think I think it was clearly a joke. 524 00:42:11.760 --> 00:42:14.820 And then people might have taken it more seriously. 525 00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:21.119 Well, including people in this room, because you were all in the pub with us, you know, 8 years ago and however, it was just saying pity about all the man's planning at the end. 526 00:42:21.179 --> 00:42:23.039 Very serious look on your face. 527 00:42:23.159 --> 00:42:26.880 I think that that speech is bad and kind of boring. 528 00:42:26.940 --> 00:42:28.679 Well, we've seen it all before. 529 00:42:28.739 --> 00:42:38.039 And I think part of the problem is it's the end of Zion inversion where we learn that Capoli can just take half an episode and just talk, right? 530 00:42:38.099 --> 00:42:39.900 until we get him to do it again. 531 00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:42.480 Yeah, it's leaning into that. 532 00:42:42.539 --> 00:42:43.679 It's saying, yes, he can do this. 533 00:42:43.739 --> 00:42:45.239 This is how we're going to end this doctor. 534 00:42:45.300 --> 00:42:47.880 Yes, my take on that. 535 00:42:47.940 --> 00:42:49.019 Is it? 536 00:42:49.019 --> 00:42:50.460 I don't think it is mansplating. 537 00:42:50.519 --> 00:42:53.880 I think it can be seen as man explaining. 538 00:42:53.940 --> 00:43:04.920 I think the objects of it are a little problematic when you're getting your 1st female doctor to have an old white man basically saying, hey, doctor, I'm going to explain to how to be me. 539 00:43:04.980 --> 00:43:07.199 The optics of that are not great. 540 00:43:07.260 --> 00:43:10.679 The same as the optics of having having the TARDIS blow up and throw her out. 541 00:43:10.739 --> 00:43:13.619 I know they do that at the end of every regeneration up until this point. 542 00:43:13.679 --> 00:43:14.940 So why is it different? 543 00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:15.719 Why is that the problem? 544 00:43:15.780 --> 00:43:17.940 And it does not throw her out. 545 00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:22.380 There was crap in the media following that about women drivers. 546 00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:28.679 But I mean, the 1st thing Capoldi says is to Clara, do you know how to drive this? 547 00:43:28.739 --> 00:43:29.639 Yeah, no, no. 548 00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:31.980 No, do you know how to fly distinct? 549 00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:32.699 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 550 00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:35.940 They should have been aware of the way that could be taken. 551 00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:37.320 Yeah, maybe doing something different. 552 00:43:37.380 --> 00:43:41.940 I don't think we need to appease those who just need to be outraged about stuff. 553 00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:51.300 And so I'm sure people can see it as mansplaining and I'm not saying that they're idiots, but let's just say that I think that it's a stretch, a real stretch. 554 00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:55.679 You're really trying hard to be offended by this is what I think by grandpa. 555 00:43:55.860 --> 00:44:01.199 Yes, Capaldi is a late middle-aged white-haired man. 556 00:44:01.260 --> 00:44:02.400 I'm right. 557 00:44:02.460 --> 00:44:04.019 Yes, yes, exactly. 558 00:44:04.079 --> 00:44:09.960 But he is, who's only basically the same age as 3 of us in this room, vaguely at the time of filming this. 559 00:44:10.019 --> 00:44:11.579 Oh, God, I am the doctor. 560 00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:18.840 But he does not present as an old man in any other way. 561 00:44:18.900 --> 00:44:19.920 No, no, right? 562 00:44:19.980 --> 00:44:21.360 He's just physically like that. 563 00:44:21.420 --> 00:44:28.139 Secondly, the speech is wrapping up where we started with the Capaldi era, which is am I a good man? 564 00:44:28.199 --> 00:44:40.380 And what it's saying is, following his entire run, you know, having lived through his entire run and also having lived through this particular episode, he's finally, finally accepted the fact that, yes, he is a good man. 565 00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:47.579 And, you know, in the same way that you have all those wonderful minds like, you know, I don't want to go or I'll always remember when the doctor was me. 566 00:44:47.639 --> 00:44:53.940 Each of those modern era doctors, particularly gets, and Eccleston as well, you know, it was really great and you know what? 567 00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:58.079 So was I. They all get a chance to say, farewell me. 568 00:44:58.139 --> 00:44:58.860 I was brilliant. 569 00:44:58.980 --> 00:44:59.880 It wasn't this fun. 570 00:44:59.940 --> 00:45:02.039 Good luck to whoever I'm about to be. 571 00:45:02.099 --> 00:45:05.159 And even Jody, I mean, what does Jody say at the end of hers? 572 00:45:05.219 --> 00:45:10.920 She says, right then, doctor, whoever I'm going to be, tag your it. 573 00:45:10.980 --> 00:45:11.400 Exactly. 574 00:45:11.460 --> 00:45:22.619 The other thing about this speech is, and whilst I do agree that sometimes these speeches, I do find rather tiresome, I think the best example is in the Zydon inversion, 100%, those kind of speeches. 575 00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:31.739 But in the 21st century, the doctor every now and again does that thing where he or she talks about the meaning of life, the universe and everything, in the way that Capaldi is going on now. 576 00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:44.519 The other thing why I think this episode, this sequence works on its own terms, is because it wraps up the whole season that we've just had, where Missy is being trying to be rehabilitated in the vault. 577 00:45:44.519 --> 00:45:54.659 And the moral of that story is that you're not inherently good or inherently evil, good and evil, that's a choice you make, and Missy is capable of make, and was finally capable of making that choice. 578 00:45:54.719 --> 00:45:59.760 So that's also what Capaldi is basically talking about here is, you know, the doctor, who am I? 579 00:45:59.820 --> 00:46:11.760 I am this wonderful person and I'm making sure that my next iteration of this myself remembers all that rather than going through another regenerative cycle, saying, am I a good person, et cetera. 580 00:46:11.820 --> 00:46:16.320 I think for it to be mansplaining, it needs to be patronising, and I don't think it's patronising. 581 00:46:16.380 --> 00:46:20.400 That's usually also the other the other thing about it. 582 00:46:20.460 --> 00:46:23.099 I think that's a really nice way of looking at it. 583 00:46:23.159 --> 00:46:24.119 It's him. 584 00:46:24.119 --> 00:46:27.000 And again, I hadn't, I'm having the tot experience. 585 00:46:27.480 --> 00:46:30.960 I hadn't considered that either, that it's not him. 586 00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:34.019 And I didn't think it was mainsplaining either. 587 00:46:34.079 --> 00:46:47.460 There was just talk of it at the time that he is telling himself how to be himself because he spent so much of this life questioning whether he's a good person. 588 00:46:48.239 --> 00:47:01.619 I think, though, that the real role of it is, you know, Moffatt saying who the doctor is, and I think by this point in the script, he's run out of new ways of doing that. 589 00:47:01.619 --> 00:47:18.179 And I also, yeah, I can also see Capoli kind of desperately trying to inject interest into the script because it's not that interesting, a speech because it is just, he says a lot of things and there's no real through line. 590 00:47:18.239 --> 00:47:19.500 It's not really about anything. 591 00:47:19.559 --> 00:47:24.360 That moment where Capoldi, you know, tries to tell the line about pairs. 592 00:47:24.420 --> 00:47:30.599 You know, he's suddenly excited about having to deliver the line about pears and then he falls over and tries to say things. 593 00:47:30.659 --> 00:47:32.519 It's kind of like, we've had all of this. 594 00:47:32.579 --> 00:47:34.320 The whole episode's been about this. 595 00:47:34.380 --> 00:47:37.019 We don't need a final speech. 596 00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:38.760 Let's just do the regeneration. 597 00:47:38.820 --> 00:47:43.860 And I think that's one of the things I struggle with. like, I don't necessarily have a problem with the speech. 598 00:47:43.920 --> 00:47:46.739 I think the speech is just goes on a little too long. 599 00:47:46.800 --> 00:47:51.000 And he's throwing himself drunkenly around the set because. 600 00:47:51.000 --> 00:47:52.199 Well, he's trying to hold it all back. 601 00:47:52.260 --> 00:47:53.280 Yeah. 602 00:47:53.280 --> 00:48:01.920 Yeah, like, and I get that in the story sense, but it's just, like, just so that don't ever tell anybody your name except for children. 603 00:48:03.480 --> 00:48:04.860 Yeah. 604 00:48:04.980 --> 00:48:07.199 Yeah, obviously, yes. 605 00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:15.480 But basically, I've kind of, by the time I've gotten to this point in 21st century Doctor Who, I'm kind of accepting that there's going to be... 606 00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:17.579 That's what we have to have. 607 00:48:17.639 --> 00:48:31.019 And if you imagine, I mean, one of the things that I think I think I've mentioned before is I'm kind of sick of the thing of, you know, the doctor spending, you know, all this time regenerating and like, you know, we kind of got it with David Tennant's doctor, we kind of got it here again as well. 608 00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:35.820 It's just that thing of, oh, for God's sake, just have them fall from a radio telescope and die. 609 00:48:36.599 --> 00:48:43.619 If they didn't keep holding it in, it wouldn't blow the Tartars up when they finally let go. 610 00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:45.300 That's the problem, exactly. 611 00:48:45.360 --> 00:48:49.260 I just got the line from a, from a silly fabulous. 612 00:48:49.320 --> 00:48:51.300 Oh, for God's sake, just die. 613 00:48:51.780 --> 00:48:53.820 There is something from that. 614 00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:59.460 But look, I accepting all of that, accepting the limitations that or at least the constraints. 615 00:48:59.519 --> 00:49:03.539 I think it's perfectly fun and wraps up the year and what the year has been doing. 616 00:49:03.599 --> 00:49:13.320 And when the new doctor arrives, there's 2 things that I really, really like, and the 1st one is that we see Capoldi's ring, fall from her. 617 00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:15.179 Lovely, lovely. 618 00:49:15.239 --> 00:49:16.679 And we did see it. 619 00:49:16.860 --> 00:49:19.380 Did we see it with David Bradley regenerating? 620 00:49:19.440 --> 00:49:21.300 We didn't, but it does happen, doesn't it? 621 00:49:21.360 --> 00:49:22.380 The ring falls off. 622 00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:25.079 The ring falls off in power of the Dala. doesn't it? 623 00:49:25.139 --> 00:49:26.099 The ring falls off in power. 624 00:49:26.159 --> 00:49:26.579 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 625 00:49:26.639 --> 00:49:35.400 Oh, no, well, the ring has already fallen off and Ben gives it back to him to say if you were the real man in this ring, which is a completely idiotic line, obviously. leaving that to one side. 626 00:49:35.460 --> 00:49:43.199 But, and Capaldi's ring, like, it was just about the 1st thing that we saw of that doctor in that special introducing... 627 00:49:43.199 --> 00:49:47.579 Because it had 12th doctor. real wedding ring, which his wife wasn't going to allow him to take off. 628 00:49:47.639 --> 00:49:52.320 Well, I think that he didn't want to have to take it on and off and have to remember whether it was on or off. 629 00:49:52.380 --> 00:49:55.980 There's that and also, you know, it's my wedding ring. don't want to take that. 630 00:49:56.039 --> 00:49:56.400 That's right. 631 00:49:56.639 --> 00:50:02.760 But they made, they made a... a thing to cover... to make it kind of look like Hardmal's ring. 632 00:50:02.820 --> 00:50:03.360 Yes, exactly. 633 00:50:03.420 --> 00:50:10.260 But I mean, it was the 1st thing we saw because before we heard the announcement, we actually saw Capoldi's hand. 634 00:50:10.260 --> 00:50:13.199 We saw that shot of his hand, remember? 635 00:50:13.260 --> 00:50:17.280 And it's like, that was the moment where we all went, oh, goodness me, it is Kabaldi. 636 00:50:17.340 --> 00:50:18.119 Yes, yeah, yeah. 637 00:50:18.179 --> 00:50:19.380 That's the moment we knew. 638 00:50:19.440 --> 00:50:21.719 And he had the wedding ring on. 639 00:50:21.780 --> 00:50:23.340 And so that's associated with him. 640 00:50:23.400 --> 00:50:27.960 It's like Matt Smith dropping the bow tie at the very end. 641 00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:31.619 And it does hard back to the 1st doctor's regeneration as well. 642 00:50:31.679 --> 00:50:32.519 I thought that was really great. 643 00:50:32.579 --> 00:50:35.340 It's a great way to summarising this is an entirely different facility. 644 00:50:35.460 --> 00:50:36.179 It's really good. 645 00:50:36.239 --> 00:50:42.539 And then the other one, which I thought was good, was that we don't see the doctor's face until she sees it. 646 00:50:42.599 --> 00:50:43.320 Oh yeah. 647 00:50:43.320 --> 00:50:44.579 So she sees it first. 648 00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:52.139 We're not allowed to see it. see her eyes and her hair and stuff, but we only see her face once she's seen it 1st and gets to react to it. 649 00:50:52.199 --> 00:50:53.699 And it's great. 650 00:50:53.760 --> 00:50:56.579 It's sort of summarising it, you know, finally the doctors were, oh, brilliant, you know. 651 00:50:56.639 --> 00:50:57.239 Yeah, yeah. 652 00:50:57.300 --> 00:51:00.599 I finally got the girl gig after all this time. 653 00:51:00.659 --> 00:51:01.739 It's just really lovely. 654 00:51:01.800 --> 00:51:05.039 And I think she plays those moments beautifully. 655 00:51:05.099 --> 00:51:05.820 Now, can I ask? 656 00:51:05.880 --> 00:51:09.300 Because I believe this happened at the end of the ITD era. 657 00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:13.679 Does Chipnell come in and direct this last sequence and is a different music, et cetera? 658 00:51:13.739 --> 00:51:14.820 Or is it still still still Murray? 659 00:51:14.880 --> 00:51:16.500 It's still Murray, isn't it? 660 00:51:16.559 --> 00:51:20.099 But he clearly decides what happens. 661 00:51:20.159 --> 00:51:28.079 Like, it's Chibnall's decision to have her fallout of the TARDIS. and to see her heading sort of, there's a city in the background. 662 00:51:28.139 --> 00:51:29.219 Sheffield. 663 00:51:29.219 --> 00:51:31.199 Yeah, she's heading towards Sheffield, I guess. 664 00:51:31.260 --> 00:51:31.860 Oh, God. 665 00:51:32.340 --> 00:51:36.119 Plummeting towards Sheffield, I believe is the expression. 666 00:52:00.179 --> 00:52:03.179 Well, that's all the time we have for this Christmas. 667 00:52:03.239 --> 00:52:13.079 We'll be back on New Year's Day to say goodbye to Peter Capoldi and Stephen Moffat and au revoir to flight through entirety in the Capoldi Moffat retrospective. 668 00:52:13.320 --> 00:52:31.500 In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts and you can keep up with us on our website, flythroughentirety.com, where you'll find our social media links, as well as links to all of our other podcasts, including our other Doctor Who podcasts, 500-year diary, and the 2nd great and bountiful Human Empire. 669 00:52:31.559 --> 00:52:35.159 Until next time, sleep in heavenly peace. 670 00:52:35.219 --> 00:52:37.739 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 671 00:52:37.860 --> 00:52:40.139 The moment has been prepared for. 672 00:52:40.199 --> 00:52:41.039 Good then. 673 00:52:47.099 --> 00:52:55.739 That was Flight 3 Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Simon Moore, James Selwood, and Richard Stone, theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. 674 00:52:55.800 --> 00:53:02.159 This episode, plummeting towards Sheffield, was recorded on the 24th of November 2024 and released on Christmas Day. 675 00:53:05.219 --> 00:53:16.679 In just a couple of days, we'll be talking about the 2024 Christmas special, Joy to the World on the 2nd great and bountiful Human Empire, which is available wherever good podcasts can be found. 676 00:53:16.739 --> 00:53:21.239 We'll see you then, and of course, in the meantime, Merry Christmas. 677 00:53:22.500 --> 00:53:29.219 I think that's probably it If you care what the media's saying, you should fight something better to do. 678 00:53:29.280 --> 00:53:32.880 No, no, I didn't care what the media was saying at the time. 679 00:53:32.940 --> 00:53:35.820 I was like, oh, maybe, maybe... 680 00:53:35.820 --> 00:53:37.260 Yeah, because I could have done something different. 681 00:53:37.320 --> 00:53:44.099 I think that's what, what, it's, that's what, yeah, because shaded that to me is that you did the same thing again. 682 00:53:44.159 --> 00:53:46.079 It's Matt Smith. 683 00:53:46.139 --> 00:53:52.679 Well, you have Matt Smith hanging from the TARDIS, you know, like we are just doing that. like stop, stop regenerating. 684 00:53:52.739 --> 00:53:53.820 And you know, they learned their lesson. 685 00:53:53.880 --> 00:53:55.440 She doesn't regenerate at the end. 686 00:53:55.500 --> 00:53:57.900 No, no, she doesn't regenerate inside the table. 687 00:53:57.960 --> 00:54:00.480 They're outside the TARDIS. nevertheless, nevertheless. 688 00:54:01.320 --> 00:54:03.300 And it just changes whilst... 689 00:54:03.300 --> 00:54:08.699 And her clothes change as well, which is, I think, a worse scene than anything you might think is wrong with this. 690 00:54:08.760 --> 00:54:10.139 I think that's the greatest sin. 691 00:54:10.199 --> 00:54:15.480 No, no, but like the reason is that we don't have David wearing that horrible outfit for any time. 692 00:54:15.539 --> 00:54:20.219 Yes, I know, but that's, that's, I think, made for bad reasons and I don't think that's. 693 00:54:20.460 --> 00:54:23.159 That's the reason. good reason, I think. 694 00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:24.659 Well, that's production fees. 695 00:54:24.719 --> 00:54:28.500 Look, no, like, I mean, one of the reasons that... 696 00:54:28.500 --> 00:54:29.340 David Tennant... 697 00:54:29.400 --> 00:54:29.820 Yes, I know. 698 00:54:29.880 --> 00:54:33.300 Okay, so it happened once before, but that was... 699 00:54:33.360 --> 00:54:43.260 Actually, claims that the reason he did that was so that people wouldn't mock him being in drag. 700 00:54:43.260 --> 00:54:45.960 But I mean, that's ridiculous. to be in that outfit. 701 00:54:46.079 --> 00:54:48.840 I know, I know, but I think it's just a horrible outfit. 702 00:54:48.900 --> 00:54:50.219 He just didn't want David. 703 00:54:50.280 --> 00:54:50.579 No, exactly. 704 00:54:50.699 --> 00:54:52.619 But it's... 705 00:54:52.619 --> 00:54:56.039 And he didn't have time to do a wardrobe scene or anything like that. 706 00:54:56.099 --> 00:54:58.320 Like all of that stuff. like all of that. 707 00:54:58.380 --> 00:55:01.019 They have time to do a whole lot of other crap. they do a wardrobe. 708 00:55:01.079 --> 00:55:04.079 Or maybe they didn't have to, they didn't have the costume. 709 00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:05.940 They may not have had the costume. 710 00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:07.559 Because it's a different production company. 711 00:55:07.619 --> 00:55:08.159 Yeah, yeah. 712 00:55:08.159 --> 00:55:10.139 The only thing that they... 713 00:55:10.139 --> 00:55:13.079 It doesn't so tenant's not actually there when they film the... 714 00:55:13.199 --> 00:55:14.340 Oh, no, no, no. 715 00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:15.300 Oh, they do it all again. 716 00:55:15.420 --> 00:55:17.099 No, it was done like a year later. 717 00:55:17.460 --> 00:55:19.500 Yeah, yeah, they're nowhere near. 718 00:55:19.559 --> 00:55:23.280 Like, it's not like Matt and David going in the thing and then out. 719 00:55:23.340 --> 00:55:24.239 It's completely different. 720 00:55:24.360 --> 00:55:27.239 That's, no wonder the whole thing was a sh then back. 721 00:55:27.300 --> 00:55:28.440 I just bleep that. 722 00:55:28.500 --> 00:55:29.219 No, no, no. 723 00:55:29.940 --> 00:55:32.219 Yeah, yeah, that's what Styer's robot is for. 724 00:55:33.119 --> 00:55:35.460 That's a bleeping noise. 725 00:55:36.179 --> 00:55:46.260 I mean, surely you could just have him go into the police box at the end and then come out and children in need wearing his outfit. 726 00:55:46.320 --> 00:55:47.820 No, no, you don't. 727 00:55:47.820 --> 00:55:49.619 In a Poirot outfit. 728 00:55:49.679 --> 00:55:56.639 Anyway, anyway, it was Neil Patrick Harris did it because for fashion reasons. 729 00:55:56.760 --> 00:55:57.659 Fine.