WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:09:53

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Your mother needs socks in hair, doctor.

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Hello and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast who are all apt to submit ourselves to domination.

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I'm Brendan.

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Nathan.

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I'm here too, it seems.

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I'm a comment to make today.

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We're moving on.

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I'm Peter Miles.

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Oh, well, you stay on that side of the room.

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I wanted to nap because we're heading down another dark, gloomy old tunnel as we find...

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People spoke about him much more kindly than that.

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As we explore, the hairy caves of the monster and tell him.

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Oh, please.

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Like a carry-on film.

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It is, oh, a four-year-old.

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Well, not far off.

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It's the monster of Paladon.

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Thank you, dear listener. for bearing with us, for this part of the season, because is this the Nadir of pert weeness?

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We've got it a lovely return to Planet of the Peladonians, but it's actually a remake, isn't it?

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20 something episodes ago.

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I actually started ceding references to what I was going to say about this story into my dialogue.

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And that's why we have the word tiresome. all the way through.

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This has been gifted to me that I'm really happy to share.

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It's the epitome of tiresome...

25
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Can we just have a little bit of etymological side glancing here for a moment?

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Is that the correct pronunciation rather than epitome?

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Because Kenneth Williams?

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Kenneth Williams is part of his shtick used to say, it's epitome.

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It's epiturp.

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And someone counted with it, fine.

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Well, I'm just taking a flight, so I'll see you at the aerodromy.

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Yeah, yeah, no.

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But yeah, apparently the ancient Greek.

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You've noticed, listener, this story will be about everything else except Monster of Berylton.

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Well, shall we then?

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Oh, and Lenny Maine...

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I felt like a Dumbritz and Capes, because we come have to come back to that again.

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Is Lenny Main directing again?

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You know what, though?

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It looks pretty good.

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Nice sets.

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It feels atmospheric.

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It's very, again, a little bit Errol Flynn down the Catacombs.

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So, how much did we enjoy?

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Monster of Palad?

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Well, Todd actually would like us to...

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Do we have to go through the Tod scoop?

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Can we let's dial up the Todd scoop.

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I'm sure he's out there somewhere hovering around in that octahedron of his.

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Well, here he comes.

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Put his, you know, put your knees together, Todd.

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We can all see up there.

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Well, the monster of peladin is tied before it even begins.

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Is it the weakest 3rd doctor story?

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I managed to watch this in 2 viewings as opposed to Planet of the Daleks, so I'm going to say it's not, but you might agree to disagree with me.

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It's either this or the mutants.

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And I think...

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I'll bugger off mutants.

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Yeah, we like the mutants.

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You like the mutants.

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I think the mutants probably has more going for it politically. going on in the in the narrative.

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It's got beautiful characterisation.

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Woo-woo sets and John Hollis in a lovely pink bathrobe.

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Meanwhile, maybe we should talk about why this went wrong.

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It's boring.

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It's slow.

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No one cares.

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Barry Letts had just lost Moonbase 3.

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So he was back in production. and not happy about it.

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That was his ticket out of here.

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It was the BBC had seen Jerry Anderson's Empire, kind of quail.

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It was UFO 2 was meant to have started production.

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We can just segue, you know, the glory days of ITC with shows like The Saint, the Baron.

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Jason King, which, again, we haven't mentioned before, polarises a lot or reverses the polarity, I should say, of a lot of the pertly era because the Jason King character.

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You might say imbues.

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They both started exactly the same point.

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But I really think a lot of Pertwee's characterisation, not just the flamboyant, uh, if you want to say, the post-Bo Brummel look that, that, exactly.

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But also that very Leslie Howard-esk manner of acting.

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Leslie Howard was the Scarlet Pimpernel in all those Baroness Auxey 40s movies.

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He was Ingrid Bergman's dumped object in Casablanca.

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If you think back.

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But that very much that style of throw the line away and kiss abroad and smoke a siggy.

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And I think that's what Pertz was always trying to get.

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But I've got to actually say Pertz had more humanity than that and it never really came across, you might disagree, but he always came across as a bit more fragile and a bit more sensitive than that and more doctorly.

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He was never quite the callous regency buck that those other actors were playing.

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We talked a little bit about how perch we, after his 1st season starts to reflexively support kind of progressive causes.

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And anti-feminism, yeah, yeah.

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No, no, no.

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I mean, in fact, this story has him tell Sarah to stay behind and talk to the queen and then Sarah says...

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Which one love, they all look like.

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No, no.

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Like the doctor gets Sarah to tell Queen Thalira about feminism.

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It's probably the most ponderous.

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It's terrible, the same.

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And then it does boil down to essentially one of the best Sarah Jane lines, which is there is nothing only about being a girl.

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Really?

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I just think that clanks.

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I think that's absolutely wonderful.

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I mean, it clanks slightly when it's brought back up in episode six.

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There was nothing more only about being a biner than there is about being a girl, Your Majesty.

101
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There's nothing only about being a poacher, pig.

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If it was being said to a human at this point in history, yes, it would be clunky.

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But because it's never occurred to Queen Thilera, that she can be an equal to a man.

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It does have to be put in very black and white terms for her.

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And I think, you know, there's nothing only about being a girl.

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Liz delivers it really well.

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And I think it's still relevant today, sadly, with, you know, sort of Disney saying things like, oh, no, we don't put Black Widow on our Avengers merchandise because little girls don't buy them at engines merchandise.

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Disney have actually... gone backwards.

109
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Yeah, no, we've gone backwards that far, haven't we?

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And yet look at Diana Reagan, the Avengers, on whom not, you know, we...

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Well, we know...

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We know that Stanley got the title from the ABC series.

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He admitted that later on much later on.

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Black Widow was based entirely on Emma Thiel.

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Yeah.

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And, you know...

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Bugger.

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You know what?

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I'd be happy to see Scala Johansson as Emma Peel.

120
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No, I actually want Jenna Coleman.

121
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Oh, yeah.

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Weirdly.

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Or Rachel Sterling.

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I'm not even a fan, obviously, but I'm not even a fan of Jenna Coleman in Doctor Who, but I would love to see her as an Emma Peel character.

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We haven't even got to how samey characters get in the new series, have we?

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But I think, you know, we're still getting lots of variety. saves this one.

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And speaking?

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No, she doesn't.

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It's gonna be one of those episodes.

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Well, it's not good in it, but it's not saved.

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Why don't they?

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Come on.

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She and Eckersley actually save it.

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I love Donald Geek.

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That's king.

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Speaking of that, terrified butter, as he was known to, isn't it?

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Speaking of actors, I do actually think on the whole, this has a better cast than Curse of Pelican.

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It's got a really much better cast and I actually think it moves.

139
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Okay, it doesn't necessarily move.

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I love that Ultron.

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Is it Ultron?

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Don't have you noticed?

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Joe to his mates.

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Yeah, have you noticed?

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Well, exactly.

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Have you noticed how the miners have all had a complete makeover and done up as badges?

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I think that was Ortron.

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I'm sorry that it's just not having it.

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I'm not saying.

150
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Maybe you're onto something.

151
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I think blore is a much more sensitive performance than grum.

152
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And he's sexier.

153
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Really?

154
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The silent king's champion.

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It's got one of the best fight sequences of all time for Pertz.

156
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And even with his bad back, Okay, it's actually Terry Walsh in a new wig.

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No, but it's not he's not got the new wig yet.

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So he's still got the appalling wig, which has a great sign on it saying, Terry Walsh under him.

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Look how good Jerry Walsh is not here.

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Yeah.

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And then, and then the entire dialogue is amazing.

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He actually does get a line of dialogue, doesn't he?

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That fight scene, we get his face.

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Like he's getting the face.

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If you haven't picked up all the Welsh mining references so far.

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This is on the mountain.

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I thought he was tossed down a pit in the 1st one.

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No, he's tossed down a pit here.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Funnily enough, they're asking how to Agador.

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Oh, yeah, yeah.

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Not for the fight with Ethis.

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No, the fight with Edis is on Mount Mageshra or something.

174
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You know, Mageshra was actually a character and then they rewrote it as a mountain?

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That's how terrific the narrative of this is.

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That's true, by the way.

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Inspired by just the incredible mess that the Monster Paladon is, we've not really contextualised. you have to?

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So we're back on Paladon.

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And there's a monster.

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Okay, it is good because it's another RKO horror film of the 30s, 40s and it looks the same and I love the model.

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It's the same model and I love the wind so effect.

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Kind of like the score in this too.

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Whenever Dudley gets a chance to do sort of a regal thing.

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And it's a proper scoring and he, yeah, he put the work into it.

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There are ice warriors.

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Are you surprised?

187
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Gosh, they're terrible too.

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And like last time, and this is sound... is the listener thing?

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Yeah, you know what, guys?

190
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You make this part.

191
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We're gonna go have a drink.

192
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I know I love the Ice Warriors and everything.

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I do have to say I love them in this as well.

194
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Always good to see Sonny Caldon.

195
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Weezy heave, heave.

196
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No, they're shockingly bad.

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Santa says, and we, I think we probably said something like this at the time.

198
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Pertu is kind of racist against the Ice Warriors.

199
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When Trouton last encountered the Ice Warriors.

200
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He was shooting them with a big solar gun and just wiping them out.

201
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Yeah, very untrown.

202
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Yeah, not really.

203
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And then, so when Pertwee encounters the ice water is in cursive, Paladon.

204
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He thinks they're the bad guys.

205
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And Joe isn't buying that straight away.

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And then we eventually discovered the Ice Warriors. are actually good guys.

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They've gone from being terrible murderous monsters to being federation people who are on the side of good.

208
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And so pertu is proved wrong and there's moral progress in the universe.

209
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Here they're just back to being sort of bad guys who are pretending to be federation things.

210
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And so I just spent the entire time thinking about how huge their bums are and what great big beer guts they have.

211
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Well, stop, actually, I'm getting excited.

212
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Yeah, I'm sitting right here.

213
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And they're lumbering and sort of terrible looking, really.

214
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I mean, I just think colour has not been kind to those costumes at all.

215
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They're horribly bright green and fluffy.

216
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They're awkward.

217
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They're just not very menacing.

218
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And and I've never heard anyone mention this, right?

219
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In the ice warriors.

220
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There are 2 kinds of ice warriors.

221
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There's the ones with noses and then there's the sort of pineapple headed ones that don't have any nose.

222
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Yeah, and he comes back in this.

223
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He comes back in this because they've got lots of ice.

224
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So there are only 2 ice warriors in Curse of Paladon, but now we have lots of them.

225
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And so we're having to haul out the old pumpkinhead ones that we didn't even use in seeds of death, for God's sake.

226
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Yeah, yeah.

227
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Here they, you know, here they are again.

228
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And they just look lamentably terrible, I think.

229
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I think another big problem is they seem to have had a repaint since Curse of Paladin.

230
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Because in Curse of Peladin, they were more of a bottle green. and now they're bright green.

231
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In Curse of Peladon, there was variation in the colour.

232
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It was slightly mottled, whereas this is a far more solid kind of green.

233
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I agree, they look a bit shoddier in this, and it's not because of the condition of the prop, in my opinion.

234
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It is entirely down to the paintwork, just looking too clean for a bunch of warriors.

235
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And again, by episodes of 5 or 6, The doctor's just killing them.

236
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Like he's got control of the Agador statue with the heat ray and he just makes it appear and kills a whole bunch of them.

237
00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:30.539
I mean, it's terrible, you know?

238
00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:33.000
Yeah, I suppose the doctor does...

239
00:12:34.019 --> 00:12:38.460
Even more than Daleks and Sidemen kind of directly attacks the ice Warriors whenever they appear.

240
00:12:38.519 --> 00:12:40.259
It is a bit strange.

241
00:12:40.320 --> 00:12:42.059
He's opposed to lizards I think.

242
00:12:42.120 --> 00:12:44.519
After all these years with Malcolm...

243
00:12:44.580 --> 00:12:46.139
Well that's why Malcolm Hawk never comes back again.

244
00:12:46.259 --> 00:12:53.639
Actually, we didn't mention last week, but apparently the reason Malcolm Hall didn't come back was all the stuffing about he had on invasion of the dinosaurs.

245
00:12:53.700 --> 00:12:57.419
Like, you know, he wanted to do this really strong political story and he had put dinosaurs in it.

246
00:12:57.539 --> 00:13:03.120
And then the final draw was when they took dinosaurs out of the title because he's like, now no one's going to watch the 1st episode.

247
00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:05.399
How dare you put such a dull title on my thing?

248
00:13:05.460 --> 00:13:09.000
He was getting out of television anyway, which was way coming back and wrote the novels.

249
00:13:09.059 --> 00:13:09.779
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

250
00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:12.960
And it's true they didn't really respect his talent and wrestle.

251
00:13:13.019 --> 00:13:14.759
But you could see how the production was going.

252
00:13:14.820 --> 00:13:18.779
It's also because Letts and Dicks were away, so it was really being handled by other blokes.

253
00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:19.679
He should have had more freedom.

254
00:13:19.740 --> 00:13:24.480
This is ostensibly supposed to be a political story of the kind that...

255
00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:26.100
Which they've been doing.

256
00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:28.799
It's meant to be the...

257
00:13:28.860 --> 00:13:30.120
It's the 3 day week you mentioned.

258
00:13:30.120 --> 00:13:30.539
Yes.

259
00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:31.559
Yes, but it's terrible.

260
00:13:31.620 --> 00:13:33.059
It's just appalling.

261
00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:34.440
The politics are shockingly bad.

262
00:13:34.500 --> 00:13:48.659
Xander goes on about this as well, but it's really obvious from just a cursory viewing of it that the natural of order of things is that there are nobles and there are minors and the nobles tell the miners what to do.

263
00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:59.100
What's happened here is we've got the Federation, all of this stuff, which was supposed to bring all these benefits to Paladon, the minors aren't enjoying any of those benefits.

264
00:13:59.159 --> 00:14:02.399
Pertway comes in is on the miner's side.

265
00:14:02.460 --> 00:14:17.820
But when the episode ends and the natural order of things is restored, it's back to Queen Falira, who is completely useless, has never done a day's work in her life, proactively once bit Donald Guy's hand.

266
00:14:17.879 --> 00:14:21.299
But that's the only thing that she's actually ever achieved.

267
00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:24.059
A very convincing phoney list, purely.

268
00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:26.580
Nina Thomas doesn't actually speak with a lisp.

269
00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:29.159
So do you think somebody was taking the pith in this?

270
00:14:29.159 --> 00:14:32.279
and that she, the scenes between she and Pert, they're just sibilant city?

271
00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:33.899
David Trout.

272
00:14:34.019 --> 00:14:35.460
Borrowed Trout, please.

273
00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:38.759
That one I thought that was the royal list here, the royal list.

274
00:14:38.820 --> 00:14:40.740
But I think the point is, politics is a really valid one.

275
00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:45.600
Because even when this was broadcast, That had already been done and dusted and finished off.

276
00:14:45.659 --> 00:14:49.139
Yeah, in fact, that was over by the time this came on TV.

277
00:14:49.200 --> 00:14:50.100
Yeah.

278
00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:53.039
Well, well, I think it was...

279
00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:54.539
There was a new government in power by now.

280
00:14:54.600 --> 00:15:01.200
The government came in during invasion of the dinosaurs, went back to the 5 day work week, got the minors back to work, got the power back on.

281
00:15:01.259 --> 00:15:06.720
There was a big viewing spike in invasion of the dinosaurs because suddenly a lot more people could watch television.

282
00:15:06.779 --> 00:15:08.700
Exactly, which is what they were saying.

283
00:15:08.759 --> 00:15:12.899
But you like the biggest thing in the news at the time was not just the death of Glam Rock.

284
00:15:12.960 --> 00:15:14.159
It was announced in the press.

285
00:15:14.220 --> 00:15:16.440
Slade's Christmas song was still in the charts.

286
00:15:16.500 --> 00:15:20.580
We were always calling the Death of Glam, so it's kind of the death of Pertley era as well.

287
00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:25.620
But apparently a revolution in Portugal had been sparked by the Eurovision song contest.

288
00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:27.659
No, it wasn't sparked by the end.

289
00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:29.220
I'd like to think about...

290
00:15:29.340 --> 00:15:35.580
But it did take place at the same time and there's some story about it, the revolution against Salazar, and they all kind of...

291
00:15:35.580 --> 00:15:36.899
He was a nice story to the streets.

292
00:15:37.139 --> 00:15:39.600
I thought he was played by Patrick Trey.

293
00:15:39.659 --> 00:15:42.240
Yeah They all head onto the street.

294
00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:46.379
But singing it and dancing at a particular moment during the broadcast.

295
00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:48.419
I still blame the revisions.

296
00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:50.639
But the, the, um...

297
00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:58.379
So the doctor comes in and the minors are all irrational and they're all superstitious and they're stupid and they're...

298
00:15:58.440 --> 00:15:59.940
It's not stupid. awful, isn't it?

299
00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:00.779
Easily led.

300
00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:05.759
And what they need to do is shut up and get back to work while the doctor solves the problem for them.

301
00:16:05.820 --> 00:16:08.879
And the doctor's constantly telling the miners to get back to work.

302
00:16:08.940 --> 00:16:10.799
And like the whole thing is...

303
00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:12.659
It's so bloody patrician, isn't it?

304
00:16:12.659 --> 00:16:13.559
Yeah.

305
00:16:13.679 --> 00:16:14.759
Tom Baker wouldn't have said that.

306
00:16:14.820 --> 00:16:16.679
Let's go and stop a fire.

307
00:16:16.740 --> 00:16:18.360
Yeah, Troughton would have as well.

308
00:16:18.419 --> 00:16:21.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. rubbing his hands gleefully. acid.

309
00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:22.080
Yeah, yeah.

310
00:16:22.139 --> 00:16:26.759
It had all had everyone's even Hartnell, you know, he would have smashed it.

311
00:16:26.820 --> 00:16:30.179
And this is the only middle class doctor we've ever really ever had.

312
00:16:30.299 --> 00:16:33.419
I think a big problem is... except for Colin Baker.

313
00:16:33.659 --> 00:16:38.039
Brian Hales seems to be quite a conservative writer.

314
00:16:38.100 --> 00:16:40.740
But, I mean, in Curse of Paladon.

315
00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:51.659
Superstition was kind of retrograde and was holding us back and technology, and in particular, we talked about it at the time. sort of transnational cooperation.

316
00:16:51.720 --> 00:16:52.559
Do you know what I mean?

317
00:16:52.620 --> 00:16:57.960
Like it was about joining a federation, joining something bigger than a mere nation.

318
00:16:58.019 --> 00:17:01.440
And all the way through that early part of the Pertwee era.

319
00:17:01.500 --> 00:17:03.419
That's seen as a progressive force.

320
00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:21.720
And here in Monster, we even go back on that, the moment that it looks like the Federation's going to get involved, suddenly Joe Ortron and Garebeck are on the same side and they're working together. you know, them banding together with their horrible, oppressive hierarchy and all of that sort of thing.

321
00:17:22.140 --> 00:17:24.000
Terrible headers.

322
00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:28.380
All of that's forgotten when we have the chance to get angry at some foreigners.

323
00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:32.759
And so the idea is really weird It's really, really politically shockingly bad.

324
00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:39.960
And they're only justified in that because the ice Warriors have become evil again, which they don't know.

325
00:17:40.019 --> 00:17:40.619
No.

326
00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:43.019
No, they get back and also don't know.

327
00:17:43.079 --> 00:17:44.279
Yeah, they just think it's the Federation.

328
00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:49.500
To segue for a moment, Gebek, the lovely, sadly, no longer with us, Rex Robinson.

329
00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:50.519
He's great.

330
00:17:50.579 --> 00:17:51.059
Yeah.

331
00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:55.259
I would say he is the best guest actor in the story.

332
00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:57.599
I know Donald G is very good, but I find...

333
00:17:57.599 --> 00:17:58.920
I like Rex Robinson as well.

334
00:17:58.980 --> 00:18:09.000
He's so sympathetic with it, and he makes the only realistic, actually, Pell character in the episode, even with that terrible Elsa Manchester, Bride of Frankenstein, Afro, Freightwig.

335
00:18:09.059 --> 00:18:11.759
It's as if Black exploitation.

336
00:18:11.819 --> 00:18:13.559
Black exploitation meets exactly.

337
00:18:13.619 --> 00:18:17.339
You know, young Frankenstein actually wasn't out until 1975.

338
00:18:17.579 --> 00:18:21.660
And yet they're actually doing the Madeline Khan look in this in this.

339
00:18:21.720 --> 00:18:23.039
Do you know who did the hair in this?

340
00:18:23.099 --> 00:18:23.940
Elizabeth Morse.

341
00:18:24.059 --> 00:18:27.960
And we didn't really see her again until she plays Peggy and Mad Men.

342
00:18:29.460 --> 00:18:32.759
See, there's a woman who was hanging around the throne room.

343
00:18:32.819 --> 00:18:34.259
Vegan Nexus.

344
00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:35.220
We haven't gone onto him yet.

345
00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:37.140
Oh, Vegan Nexus.

346
00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:39.960
Played by 60s Dalek operator Gerald Taylor.

347
00:18:40.019 --> 00:18:43.619
He's a hairy carrot and Mr. Tumnus in one.

348
00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:51.119
It's like, it's like a carrot and Mr. Thomas had a foxy weekend or a frisky weekend after the Fox and Fawn pub and Mega Nexus was the result.

349
00:18:51.180 --> 00:18:54.000
Do you know they were looking at doing a figure in the range?

350
00:18:54.059 --> 00:18:58.140
God knows why, but the Dennis Fisher range was kind of, he was one of the ones I can get.

351
00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:00.779
He was only here for 3 seconds, but he was so popular with the children.

352
00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:02.880
He's awfully calm, isn't he?

353
00:19:02.940 --> 00:19:04.140
He's got those...

354
00:19:04.259 --> 00:19:07.259
He's so good There is nothing for you to fear.

355
00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:10.680
Welcome to the world of tomorrow.

356
00:19:10.740 --> 00:19:12.240
He's great.

357
00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:14.099
I'd like to think he's one of Azol's mates.

358
00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:16.740
He's kind of like a lesser demon character.

359
00:19:16.740 --> 00:19:17.220
Yeah, maybe.

360
00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:19.740
But he's a mining engineer, which is lovely.

361
00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:21.720
He should wear a shirt, probably, if he's...

362
00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:24.599
Well, maybe his people think that's obscene.

363
00:19:24.660 --> 00:19:27.299
Get your nipples out, there's nipples.

364
00:19:27.900 --> 00:19:30.720
Yeah, not much going for it.

365
00:19:30.839 --> 00:19:34.799
Terry does play someone else apart from the doctor, by the way. plays a minor, I believe.

366
00:19:34.859 --> 00:19:36.480
No, no, he's a he's also a guard.

367
00:19:36.539 --> 00:19:37.079
Is he a guard?

368
00:19:37.140 --> 00:19:41.519
he gets locked up for an episode because we've got six...

369
00:19:41.579 --> 00:19:43.680
Oh yeah, that's right. the guard with the coin trick.

370
00:19:43.740 --> 00:19:46.019
Yeah, God, it's boring, isn't it?

371
00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:51.420
I love that Kurt grabs Sarah by the ear at the end and leads her into the Tartars.

372
00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:52.319
It's really nasty.

373
00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:54.359
You can't see him getting away with that.

374
00:19:54.420 --> 00:19:55.920
Well, why do they do that?

375
00:19:55.980 --> 00:19:56.759
That's awful.

376
00:19:56.819 --> 00:20:01.619
It's well played, you know, as much as it possibly can be by the 2 of them.

377
00:20:01.680 --> 00:20:03.539
You know, he's not angry with her.

378
00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:04.859
She thinks it's funny.

379
00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:08.940
Like, the way it's played kind of almost wrestling.

380
00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:10.799
I think it's a Terrence Sticks moment. awful.

381
00:20:10.859 --> 00:20:12.000
It's awful.

382
00:20:12.059 --> 00:20:13.079
The whole thing's awful.

383
00:20:13.079 --> 00:20:16.380
And, you know, Sarah gets that speech to Queen Thalira.

384
00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:17.880
There's nothing only about being a girl.

385
00:20:17.940 --> 00:20:19.920
And as I said before, she does nothing.

386
00:20:19.980 --> 00:20:23.759
Like, if that, it smells of dicks all over, doesn't it, that line?

387
00:20:23.819 --> 00:20:26.220
If it had inspired her to be heroic.

388
00:20:26.339 --> 00:20:27.480
You know what?

389
00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:33.059
I do, she doesn't get enough, but I think she does get a few moments of heroism.

390
00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:36.059
Like, you know, biteckersly's hand, but that's really it.

391
00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:42.059
And then she tries to escape out the thing, but fails. and then she watches all through the back passage, yeah.

392
00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:52.140
Yeah, but also when when he's then dragging her along, she actually stops him in a pile of bodies and has this quite, quite good few lines berated.

393
00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:53.099
Look at what you've done.

394
00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:53.880
Look at what you've created.

395
00:20:53.940 --> 00:20:55.740
It comes too late in the story.

396
00:20:56.039 --> 00:20:58.740
And why do so many people get killed?

397
00:20:58.799 --> 00:20:59.640
It's not fun.

398
00:20:59.700 --> 00:21:00.779
Isn't it interesting?

399
00:21:00.779 --> 00:21:01.559
It's killed.

400
00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:05.579
It's interesting that they land again and the scanners on the blink just like it was last time.

401
00:21:05.640 --> 00:21:08.940
Do you think that the Tartars might just have not been able to bear to watch?

402
00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:10.920
Yeah, he doesn't want to watch Beladon.

403
00:21:10.980 --> 00:21:13.259
It's the boredom capital of the universe.

404
00:21:13.740 --> 00:21:16.559
See also vengeance on Baroffs.

405
00:21:17.099 --> 00:21:19.140
Scanners on the blinker.

406
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:22.380
Actually, vengeance on Baros really is a remake of this story, isn't it?

407
00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:23.160
Miners.

408
00:21:24.059 --> 00:21:26.940
I mean, it certainly has I hate that story.

409
00:21:27.420 --> 00:21:29.460
Can't wait to have done that.

410
00:21:29.579 --> 00:21:34.140
I mean, in that story, we just hear that the miners have started looking like badgers rather than actually seeing them.

411
00:21:35.400 --> 00:21:37.019
They do.

412
00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:38.220
Badgers.

413
00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:40.079
With Quillum turning them into badges.

414
00:21:40.140 --> 00:21:41.460
Quillam's turning them into badges.

415
00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:42.299
Oh god.

416
00:21:43.619 --> 00:21:46.680
So that's an homage to this story.

417
00:21:46.740 --> 00:21:47.819
Yes, yes.

418
00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:49.500
Is that a mess?

419
00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:50.759
Is anything salvageable from that?

420
00:21:50.819 --> 00:21:52.200
Do people have fun making this?

421
00:21:52.259 --> 00:21:55.019
As much as we've had fun reviewing it?

422
00:21:55.079 --> 00:21:57.180
Hurt we had already decided to go.

423
00:21:57.240 --> 00:21:59.099
Yeah, he's not really there for this one is he?

424
00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:00.839
I believe...

425
00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:11.579
I've heard from, I heard in an interview with Liz Sladen that usually during studios and whatnot, pert we would be warming everyone up and chatting away and whatnot.

426
00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:22.619
Apparently during this, whenever he wasn't on camera, he had brought in a little foldable desk and a little foldable chair and all of his fan mail and he was personally responding to all his fan mail between takes and not speaking to everyone.

427
00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:27.420
And he said in the years later, that was because he knew how hard it would be to leave.

428
00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:29.279
So he was effectively weaning himself off.

429
00:22:29.339 --> 00:22:32.519
Well, he was actually writing to them all.

430
00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:34.740
Write in and tell them that I have to stay.

431
00:22:34.859 --> 00:22:37.799
Give me more money. must have it.

432
00:22:37.859 --> 00:22:39.299
Ask my aunt.

433
00:22:39.539 --> 00:22:43.440
Ask mummy and daddy to put £5 in an offer.

434
00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:52.980
I mean, what this story has going for it is it does have some very nice moments, possibly enough nice moments to make up 2 episodes.

435
00:22:53.099 --> 00:22:55.140
You've got. pretty generous.

436
00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:55.920
I agree.

437
00:22:55.980 --> 00:23:01.079
It would have been a much better as, you know, a three, possibly four, but 6 episodes.

438
00:23:01.140 --> 00:23:02.759
What were they thinking?

439
00:23:02.819 --> 00:23:06.480
As you've said earlier, it's just a cost-saving measure because they've still got the set.

440
00:23:06.539 --> 00:23:07.019
Well exactly.

441
00:23:07.079 --> 00:23:08.339
So Lenny Maine had all of that.

442
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:09.900
Where's the money gone?

443
00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:10.680
I can't see that.

444
00:23:10.740 --> 00:23:12.539
I think it's Ron and his wife.

445
00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:16.559
Because his wife is standing around in the background of the...

446
00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:17.880
Oh, yeah, she's the attendant.

447
00:23:17.940 --> 00:23:19.740
Yeah, yeah, dressed as a Cadbury chocolate.

448
00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:20.640
Is she Australian as well?

449
00:23:20.700 --> 00:23:21.359
I don't know.

450
00:23:21.420 --> 00:23:23.940
Do you know, it is that it is actually the same purple.

451
00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:26.099
It is Cadbury Purple.

452
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:28.259
We never actually said that.

453
00:23:28.380 --> 00:23:29.880
Now we'll get sued.

454
00:23:29.940 --> 00:23:35.160
No, I mean, you've got, for instance, at the end of episode one, Pertwi says, what the bloody hell is it?

455
00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:36.299
Does he?

456
00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:40.079
He doesn't say it, but well, okay, here's the thing.

457
00:23:40.140 --> 00:23:55.920
When the Agador statue appears and kills blore, you cut to the doctor and there's lots of noise and effects and whatnot and you can't actually hear what Pert was saying, but lip reading, it looks pretty clear that he either says what the bloody hell is it or what the blue blazes is it?

458
00:23:55.980 --> 00:23:57.839
And it's very hard to tell.

459
00:23:57.900 --> 00:24:01.200
And I think Mark Ayres is fiddled with the sound and even he can't figure it out.

460
00:24:01.259 --> 00:24:03.779
It's the Hound of the Baskervilles, isn't it?

461
00:24:04.019 --> 00:24:06.779
Yeah, yeah, Agador.

462
00:24:06.839 --> 00:24:07.019
Yeah.

463
00:24:07.140 --> 00:24:09.180
But he wears white socks.

464
00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:12.720
You've got the fact that you've got the fact that Agador himself is back anyway.

465
00:24:12.779 --> 00:24:18.960
You have the doctor and Sarah in that pit lit very moodily, which I remember was a childhood nightmare of mine.

466
00:24:19.019 --> 00:24:20.400
Mood lighting.

467
00:24:20.460 --> 00:24:21.119
Mood lighting.

468
00:24:21.180 --> 00:24:22.019
Yeah, yeah.

469
00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:22.440
Yeah.

470
00:24:22.500 --> 00:24:28.079
And you have Sarah's, you have Sarah's wonderful relationship with Alpha Centauri.

471
00:24:28.200 --> 00:24:37.380
Yeah, again, it's the same thing that you noticed with Bel Al, where she's initially kind of a bit freaked by, you know, slimy penis monster.

472
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:39.180
But she gets over there.

473
00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:39.839
There's a crash on it.

474
00:24:39.900 --> 00:24:41.160
Yeah, which is really good.

475
00:24:41.220 --> 00:24:46.259
It helps Sarah to realise that there is a being, there is an entity and a consciousness.

476
00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:47.039
It's not a monster.

477
00:24:47.099 --> 00:24:48.240
It's a person.

478
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:48.960
Stuart Phil.

479
00:24:49.019 --> 00:24:51.839
It's Stuart fell in Yuzan church.

480
00:24:51.900 --> 00:24:54.720
And, you know, she says, look, you know, I'm really sorry.

481
00:24:54.779 --> 00:24:55.500
I'm just jumping.

482
00:24:55.559 --> 00:24:56.160
It's my fault.

483
00:24:56.220 --> 00:25:00.660
It's nothing you've done because Alpha always blames everything on itself.

484
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:06.359
Sarah also has a bit of a fun relationship with Eckersley.

485
00:25:06.420 --> 00:25:09.779
His his treachery at the end isn't surprising in the slightest.

486
00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:10.440
No.

487
00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:14.519
He's been kind of staring into the Middle Eastern significantly and stuff.

488
00:25:14.579 --> 00:25:20.099
I also love that he's reunited with something from his very 1st Doctor Who appearance.

489
00:25:20.700 --> 00:25:21.480
Is he in the space park?

490
00:25:21.539 --> 00:25:23.759
He's in the space pirates, wearing the ice lord helmet.

491
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:25.619
He is.

492
00:25:25.619 --> 00:25:26.160
He is.

493
00:25:26.220 --> 00:25:29.519
And so yeah, that's the real reason they're working together, of course.

494
00:25:29.579 --> 00:25:37.019
And we also get Pertley's heroic last sand as the multicoloured tinsel is swirling round his head.

495
00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:39.900
Sarah thinks he's killed twice.

496
00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:42.359
Once in episode 4 and once in episode six.

497
00:25:42.420 --> 00:25:43.079
Yeah.

498
00:25:43.079 --> 00:25:48.720
She's convinced that when they blew up the Sonic Lance, the doctor was killed and you've killed him and all of that.

499
00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:51.000
And someone says to her, no, no, it's okay.

500
00:25:51.059 --> 00:25:52.079
They just killed Terry Walsh.

501
00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:54.000
They've just killed poor...

502
00:25:54.059 --> 00:25:54.599
No, Etis.

503
00:25:54.660 --> 00:25:55.019
No.

504
00:25:55.079 --> 00:25:56.519
Why?

505
00:25:56.519 --> 00:26:14.519
This makes me angry as well because he's like, you know, he's a minor who's unprepared to accept the great chain of being and the fact that queens are more important than he is and that drives him crazy and he's going to kill everyone because working class people are essentially just a moment. that's right.

506
00:26:14.579 --> 00:26:20.339
Is it better or worse than his appearance as Trantist in Dalek master plan?

507
00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:23.880
It's much worse. is he's a diva.

508
00:26:23.940 --> 00:26:26.160
But I think his best role is still Bert.

509
00:26:26.220 --> 00:26:27.000
Yeah.

510
00:26:27.059 --> 00:26:28.500
Toss up.

511
00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:30.660
Burt for the...

512
00:26:30.660 --> 00:26:31.319
From the Green Death.

513
00:26:31.380 --> 00:26:32.339
He is too.

514
00:26:32.460 --> 00:26:39.960
Yes, the poor minor who calls Joe Blodwin appears in this as a minor who just gets angry at people and tries to kill Terry Walsh.

515
00:26:40.019 --> 00:26:40.559
Yeah.

516
00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:42.059
We can't have that.

517
00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:43.619
We've all had days like that, though, haven't we?

518
00:26:43.680 --> 00:26:45.720
Only the doctor doesn't have to kill Terry Walsh.

519
00:26:45.779 --> 00:26:46.559
No, you're probably right.

520
00:26:46.619 --> 00:26:47.759
What else?

521
00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:49.619
I like Kurt, Terry Walsh, please.

522
00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:50.039
Yes.

523
00:26:50.039 --> 00:26:50.759
Let's come in.

524
00:26:50.819 --> 00:26:52.920
He plays 3 separate parts, doesn't it?

525
00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:53.279
This one?

526
00:26:53.339 --> 00:26:55.500
Well, 3 guards as well as the king's champion in this one.

527
00:26:55.559 --> 00:26:56.880
No, he's not the king's champion.

528
00:26:56.940 --> 00:26:58.380
That's right.

529
00:26:58.380 --> 00:26:59.160
He's the guard captain.

530
00:26:59.220 --> 00:27:03.240
I told you last time that Death to the Daleks was the 1st story I had ever watched.

531
00:27:03.299 --> 00:27:16.019
And for some reason, I think, after Death of the Daleks finished, the night that Peladon was on, my family had to go out and like I was 10, there was nothing I could do about it, so I missed Doctor Who.

532
00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:19.259
And I thought, well, if I've missed episode one.

533
00:27:19.319 --> 00:27:21.359
I shouldn't really watch the rest of it.

534
00:27:21.420 --> 00:27:27.119
So I waited until Planet of the Spiders was on and I never saw this in 1978 at all.

535
00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:33.660
And I think that that probably just improved the quality of my childhood, just that slightest bit.

536
00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:51.420
Yeah, you know, I think I think the actors are all really good, but just the material, the story, it kind of betrays Curse of Peladin for me because Curse of Peladin, it's meant to be a great thing that they're going to join the Federation, and then it turns out, Actually, no, the Federation are taking horrible advantage of them.

537
00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:57.779
And I think we're meant to believe that, oh, no, no, it's just this side of the Federation, the rogue side.

538
00:27:57.839 --> 00:27:59.640
It's not the rogue side ordering the mining.

539
00:27:59.700 --> 00:28:02.700
It's not the rogue side that's at war with Galaxy 5.

540
00:28:02.940 --> 00:28:04.140
Exactly, you know?

541
00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:04.680
It's.

542
00:28:05.819 --> 00:28:10.680
Yeah, it's really because Curse of Peladon, I think, is one of the best pertly stories.

543
00:28:10.740 --> 00:28:15.839
And yeah, I think this just this is this is the X-Men 3 of Doctor Who.

544
00:28:15.900 --> 00:28:18.720
It's really trampling all over it. don't know what he's talking about.

545
00:28:21.779 --> 00:28:27.660
Nor do I. I said, where a little bit can go for far too long away.

546
00:28:27.720 --> 00:28:34.319
Well, something's about to go far, far, far away at the end of Planet of the Spiders.

547
00:28:43.380 --> 00:28:51.119
So this is my story, and it's obviously a giant celebration of the entire kind of pertwee era.

548
00:28:51.180 --> 00:28:55.859
And to that end, it's just chock full of elements that we've seen before.

549
00:28:55.920 --> 00:29:00.480
And as I've decided that making lists is my new forte.

550
00:29:00.539 --> 00:29:06.720
And so here's my giant list of things that we've seen before, okay?

551
00:29:06.779 --> 00:29:09.000
And feel free to leap in and add to it.

552
00:29:09.059 --> 00:29:18.779
The brigade is only in episodes one and 2 until the final scene and then he comes back, which is just like the time monster of the time warrior, where the brigadier drops off.

553
00:29:18.900 --> 00:29:24.480
In the middle of a unit story, we go off to another time or planet, like in day or time monster or time warrior.

554
00:29:24.539 --> 00:29:24.900
Check.

555
00:29:24.900 --> 00:29:27.599
The villain is something from mythology.

556
00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:30.539
Demons or Time Monster.

557
00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:37.380
We get to meet the doctor's guru from the Buddha's flower sermon, which we had in time monster.

558
00:29:37.380 --> 00:29:45.420
There's a long, boring car chase in episode two, like the long, boring car chase in episode five, of invasion of dinosaurs.

559
00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:47.460
Up and down the same length of road.

560
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:48.539
This is great.

561
00:29:48.599 --> 00:29:49.920
Is it a camera reverse?

562
00:29:49.980 --> 00:29:55.200
Much of the action takes place on the planet, Metabolist 3, which you've got...

563
00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:59.579
Yeah, well, the spiders call it Metabolis as well, so I think we have to get rid of that theory.

564
00:29:59.640 --> 00:30:00.779
No, I like that.

565
00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:03.119
It's the TARDS translation artefact, I'm sure.

566
00:30:03.240 --> 00:30:06.299
So that's kind of a Monsters and Green Death mentioned that.

567
00:30:06.359 --> 00:30:20.640
A lot of really shockingly terrible CSO, which I think is a harkback to Terror of the Autons invasion of the dinosaurs, Carnival, monsters and pretty much the rest of the last 5 years of Doctor Who ever since they brought it in.

568
00:30:20.700 --> 00:30:24.180
We get Joe mentioned in her marriage.

569
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:27.900
We get the drashigs appearing on the screen.

570
00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:31.380
We get Mike Yates finalising his character arc.

571
00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:34.559
Yep, we get Bessie back, who we last saw in the Green Death.

572
00:30:34.619 --> 00:30:35.700
Still no lines.

573
00:30:35.819 --> 00:30:36.960
Still no lines.

574
00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:38.880
She doesn't talk pretty much, does she?

575
00:30:38.940 --> 00:30:55.559
But the big gaping emission, which was completely unavoidable, is, of course, Roger Delgado, who's the signature villain of the Poetry era, who was fabulous in season 8 and whom we've grown to love over the last few years, and we've already said why that is.

576
00:30:55.619 --> 00:30:56.579
Yeah, yeah.

577
00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:59.099
He had unfortunately been killed by this time.

578
00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:03.779
However, he is, if you like, represented in the story.

579
00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:07.259
His wife, Kismet Delgado, which is the queen.

580
00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:08.279
She is the queen.

581
00:31:08.339 --> 00:31:09.119
Is she the queen?

582
00:31:09.119 --> 00:31:10.440
And she's also the great one.

583
00:31:10.500 --> 00:31:12.420
She's the queen and the great one.

584
00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:14.400
She's fantastic too.

585
00:31:14.460 --> 00:31:15.299
She's really lovely.

586
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:17.819
The sad thing is, it was an unregistered taxi.

587
00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:21.720
He was in Turkey with 2 crewmen and it went when it went over Cliff.

588
00:31:21.779 --> 00:31:25.019
His life insurance didn't cover it because the taxi was unregistered.

589
00:31:25.079 --> 00:31:27.480
So she had no, she didn't get any payout.

590
00:31:27.539 --> 00:31:34.319
Yeah, I think eventually they settled with the movie company because the car that was meant to pick him up didn't turn up.

591
00:31:34.380 --> 00:31:37.500
So being the professional he was, because he was due on set.

592
00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:39.779
He was curious about being early.

593
00:31:39.839 --> 00:31:40.619
Yeah, exactly.

594
00:31:40.680 --> 00:31:41.579
Exactly.

595
00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:47.279
And I believe eventually she, if she did see, she did see compensation for that.

596
00:31:47.339 --> 00:31:53.279
But this was this was Barry Lett's saying, oh, you know, we should help her out.

597
00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:54.000
And she's fabulous.

598
00:31:54.059 --> 00:31:55.859
She is really good. more voices.

599
00:31:55.859 --> 00:31:56.759
That's terrific.

600
00:31:56.819 --> 00:31:57.720
That voice.

601
00:31:57.779 --> 00:32:04.500
I've mentioned before that my mother sort of clings to a few things she remembers about Doctor Who.

602
00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:06.240
One of the things is that voice.

603
00:32:06.299 --> 00:32:11.940
Whenever she hears a shrill voice, she'll always turn to me and say, oh, the great one.

604
00:32:13.079 --> 00:32:16.200
So imagine if you will dawn French doing that.

605
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:18.299
Your mother dawn French.

606
00:32:18.359 --> 00:32:21.960
My mother is very, my mother is a cross between Dawn, French, and Sarah Jane Smith.

607
00:32:22.019 --> 00:32:25.380
Dream come true, then. and it's Mother's Day.

608
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:26.700
Happy Mother's Day too.

609
00:32:26.759 --> 00:32:28.500
It is, we are recording this on Mother's Day.

610
00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:29.759
I'll be emailing her later.

611
00:32:29.819 --> 00:32:31.680
She's galavanting across Europe at the moment.

612
00:32:31.740 --> 00:32:34.799
And also, Nathan, returning in this story.

613
00:32:34.859 --> 00:32:35.279
We have.

614
00:32:35.339 --> 00:32:38.519
I have the castle is different. just going to go down.

615
00:32:38.579 --> 00:32:41.759
So you can you can check these off for me while I go.

616
00:32:41.819 --> 00:32:43.559
John Durth returns.

617
00:32:43.619 --> 00:32:44.759
He was boss.

618
00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:45.480
He was boss.

619
00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:48.779
Andrew Staines and Christopher Burgess return?

620
00:32:48.839 --> 00:32:51.240
Yeah, so that's Good and Professor Phillips.

621
00:32:51.299 --> 00:32:52.980
Yes, from Terror of the Autons?

622
00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:54.420
Terence Lodge.

623
00:32:54.480 --> 00:32:58.200
He's Moss and he was Aurum in Carnival of Monsters.

624
00:32:58.259 --> 00:32:59.339
That's a lovely gray pasty thing.

625
00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:00.779
Yeah, yeah, he's great in that too.

626
00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:01.980
Kevin Lindsay?

627
00:33:02.039 --> 00:33:04.740
He was lynx in the Time Warrior.

628
00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:05.880
George Cormack?

629
00:33:06.180 --> 00:33:11.279
He's Campo when he was Dalios in the Time Monsters. which is where Campo was mentioned.

630
00:33:11.339 --> 00:33:13.259
Pat Gorman?

631
00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:14.279
Terry Walsh.

632
00:33:14.339 --> 00:33:15.480
Stuart Fell.

633
00:33:15.539 --> 00:33:18.359
So they're all kind of Silurians and things, everything.

634
00:33:18.420 --> 00:33:20.579
Walter Randall and Max Faulkner?

635
00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:21.359
No who are they?

636
00:33:21.420 --> 00:33:22.440
Walter Randall.

637
00:33:22.500 --> 00:33:25.200
Walter Randall was Harry Slocum in Inferno.

638
00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:26.460
And go right away.

639
00:33:26.519 --> 00:33:27.059
And what's he?

640
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:29.039
He is one of the guard captains.

641
00:33:29.099 --> 00:33:32.640
And if we go right back to the Aztecs.

642
00:33:32.759 --> 00:33:39.180
He is Tonila, one of the high priests, and he is also Saladin in the Crusade.

643
00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:41.039
Okay, you've left some out?

644
00:33:41.099 --> 00:33:43.140
Yeah, I'll be coming back to those in a moment.

645
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:44.220
We got Yosan Churchman.

646
00:33:44.339 --> 00:33:47.759
Ah, yes. as voice of Alpha Centauri and the spider.

647
00:33:47.819 --> 00:33:48.480
Yep.

648
00:33:48.539 --> 00:33:50.880
And I had to leave the best to last.

649
00:33:50.940 --> 00:33:51.660
Oh good.

650
00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:53.099
I'm glad you did not left him out.

651
00:33:53.160 --> 00:33:54.480
We've got Cyril Shat.

652
00:33:54.539 --> 00:33:56.700
Who was Dr. Lennox in Ambassadors of Death?

653
00:33:56.819 --> 00:33:57.900
Delicious, delicious.

654
00:33:57.960 --> 00:33:58.380
Yeah, yeah.

655
00:33:58.380 --> 00:33:59.700
Playing a kind of...

656
00:33:59.700 --> 00:34:01.440
He's cosplaying as the doctor.

657
00:34:01.500 --> 00:34:02.220
He is.

658
00:34:02.279 --> 00:34:05.160
He's lambasting and isn't he terrific?

659
00:34:05.220 --> 00:34:13.139
He's kind of what cosplay Doctor Who would, you know, what a fan would have thought Doctor Who actually looks like with Professory Beard, you know?

660
00:34:13.320 --> 00:34:19.679
Between that cast, we actually have representatives from every year of the Pertwee era.

661
00:34:19.739 --> 00:34:24.840
And you know, I don't think that's an accident. not at all.

662
00:34:24.900 --> 00:34:35.219
And most of these people who've appeared before appeared in Barry Let's directed stories, and I think Barry Letz has consciously gone back and gotten probably people that John got on quite well working with.

663
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:38.219
And I think that is a lovely, lovely aspect.

664
00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:43.139
Yeah, of course, in the new series when we do that sort of thing, we get them back in the same parts.

665
00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:50.579
You know, we get things like the stolen earth that just has everyone who's appeared in the last 4 years, except for Eggleston because he doesn't do that anymore.

666
00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:54.420
But no, I think I think it's a lovely touch.

667
00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:55.320
And you know what?

668
00:34:55.320 --> 00:34:56.280
I'd always been aware of it.

669
00:34:56.340 --> 00:35:01.440
But Andrew Staines and Walter Randall and Max Faulkner.

670
00:35:01.559 --> 00:35:05.099
I hadn't noticed before until I rewatched it actually keeping my eye out.

671
00:35:05.159 --> 00:35:09.300
But for another note on the cast, Todd has a question for us.

672
00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:21.239
Has the Pertwee era in its dying throws discovered the pinup boy of 1974 in the younger son of Sable.

673
00:35:21.300 --> 00:35:28.380
Oh, look, we do if you're still watching top of the pops or it's very pop, isn't it?

674
00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:34.079
And not pop art, just as in pop groupie, that whole village of the oddly washed socks.

675
00:35:34.199 --> 00:35:39.539
It's some, yeah, the gypsy caravan of courage, dorcet thing.

676
00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:42.179
Yeah, but I really like Gareth Hunt and that letter.

677
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:46.920
No one that really stands out as being terrific in that village, although some of them have been memorable for other reasons.

678
00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:49.260
Jenny Laird, their mother.

679
00:35:49.320 --> 00:35:49.800
Exactly.

680
00:35:49.860 --> 00:35:52.500
Jenny Land of the Eponymous Award.

681
00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:54.599
Yes, and we have another question from Todd.

682
00:35:54.659 --> 00:35:58.679
Will Jenny Laird be nominated and even win her own award.

683
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:01.739
We worstly want to give it to someone who's won.

684
00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:05.219
Well, look, I was actually going to say, but she's just not good enough to do that.

685
00:36:05.219 --> 00:36:07.500
You'll have to go to somebody else's.

686
00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:20.400
Well, the reason we have the Jenny Laird award for most puzzling creative choice is because there was a Jenny Laird award at Rada, which is where she went and do we all know the old joke about Rada?

687
00:36:20.460 --> 00:36:22.440
How do you know if someone's been to Rada?

688
00:36:22.500 --> 00:36:24.480
The Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts?

689
00:36:24.539 --> 00:36:27.719
They tell you. right.

690
00:36:27.780 --> 00:36:30.119
What do you mean there was an award at Ryder?

691
00:36:30.179 --> 00:36:32.639
Because she was so esteemed at Rada?

692
00:36:32.699 --> 00:36:37.320
There was a Jenny Laird award at Rada, which is why this podcast has a Jenny Laird award.

693
00:36:37.380 --> 00:36:39.539
So when you're saying she was so esteemed, we should...

694
00:36:39.539 --> 00:36:41.340
Star Wars wife.

695
00:36:41.460 --> 00:36:50.280
She has 63 acting roles mentioned on IMDb and her career ranges from 1935 to 1991.

696
00:36:50.460 --> 00:36:56.159
I don't know what the hell had she suffered a recent blow to the head or something when she was in this?

697
00:36:56.280 --> 00:36:57.480
It is all so on to play.

698
00:36:57.539 --> 00:37:00.000
She's like Joy Harrison in that everything is on the one level.

699
00:37:00.059 --> 00:37:01.920
No, I shan't you shan't take him.

700
00:37:01.980 --> 00:37:03.420
Sabo, my husband, my love.

701
00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:03.960
Why did you do it?

702
00:37:04.019 --> 00:37:04.679
Why, why?

703
00:37:04.739 --> 00:37:06.659
No, I shan't let you take it by Shantaijan.

704
00:37:06.719 --> 00:37:07.920
And die.

705
00:37:07.980 --> 00:37:12.119
Yeah, and that's like, that's not an exaggeration of her delivery.

706
00:37:12.179 --> 00:37:13.860
That's actually what she sounds like.

707
00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:16.440
I've been waiting an entire year to say this.

708
00:37:16.500 --> 00:37:18.000
Oh, gosh, she's bad.

709
00:37:18.059 --> 00:37:18.960
She's really terrible.

710
00:37:19.019 --> 00:37:24.719
So the Jenny Laird award, as given by Rada. is for achievement in a thankless role.

711
00:37:25.500 --> 00:37:33.000
As well as receiving the award, the recipient received £5 and a hug and a hug.

712
00:37:33.059 --> 00:37:40.139
If it was a bankless role. past winners, included Jan Chappell, later to be Callie on Blake 7.

713
00:37:40.199 --> 00:37:43.380
She should have got it for Callie on Blake...

714
00:37:43.500 --> 00:37:44.639
Perhaps presciently.

715
00:37:44.699 --> 00:37:51.360
Doctor Who's Richard Franklin achieved the Jenny Laird Award during his training in the late 60s.

716
00:37:51.420 --> 00:37:53.880
So can we talk about?

717
00:37:53.940 --> 00:37:54.840
As a boy, most likely too.

718
00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:58.139
So let's get back to the...

719
00:37:58.199 --> 00:38:00.659
Let's get back to the actual story.

720
00:38:00.780 --> 00:38:06.420
So the whole thing opens with Mike Yates, and I think it's probably a bit of a surprise to the audience at home.

721
00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:07.860
He's got a lot of hair.

722
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:13.199
He's looking pretty good and he's retired to a sort of Tibetan lamastery.

723
00:38:13.260 --> 00:38:14.039
A lamaster, yes.

724
00:38:14.039 --> 00:38:15.300
And up to north.

725
00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:21.179
Barry Letts is not Tibetan Buddhist.

726
00:38:21.239 --> 00:38:23.519
Like, he's not a Vadreana Buddhist.

727
00:38:23.579 --> 00:38:25.380
He's into sort of Zen Buddhism.

728
00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:27.300
And that story is much more Zen.

729
00:38:27.420 --> 00:38:30.119
Well, he mashes up ideas.

730
00:38:30.179 --> 00:38:35.579
And he admits to this in interviews that he's using ideas from sort of different strands of Buddhism.

731
00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:44.159
But very early on, we see the people chanting around the Mandala, which depicts the Baba Chakra, which is decoration outside Tibetan monasteries.

732
00:38:44.219 --> 00:38:49.019
And Tibetan Buddhism comes to Scotland in the 60s.

733
00:38:49.079 --> 00:38:55.320
There's a monastery set up in Scotland by a man called Choji, Akong, Rinposhe.

734
00:38:55.380 --> 00:38:58.619
And so that's clearly where the name comes from.

735
00:38:58.679 --> 00:39:01.380
And that monastery sort of cedes other monasteries.

736
00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:05.039
There's one in London, sort of in, you know, decades later and so on.

737
00:39:05.099 --> 00:39:06.960
So Tibetan Buddhism is a thing.

738
00:39:07.019 --> 00:39:10.019
And you can see that Barry Letts has decided to include it here.

739
00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:15.000
But with his usual sort of ham fisted sort of thing, it's evil Buddhists, isn't it?

740
00:39:15.239 --> 00:39:24.599
All of these people who've come along to gain power and they chant around mandolas and someone spiders and do terrible things.

741
00:39:24.659 --> 00:39:42.239
And so there are elements of Buddhist ideas in this and particularly when we get to it, the regeneration is kind of conceived in Buddhist terms, but it is that sort of usual thing where he kind of fouls it up a bit and ends up insulting the people he's supposed to.

742
00:39:42.300 --> 00:39:43.619
Yeah, I mean, it probably doesn't help that.

743
00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:49.079
The only Buddhists we see who actually have dialogue and characters.

744
00:39:49.139 --> 00:39:51.420
The human ones are the evil ones.

745
00:39:51.480 --> 00:39:55.500
And the only good ones are actually a singular time lord.

746
00:39:55.559 --> 00:39:57.000
Spoiler alert.

747
00:39:57.000 --> 00:39:59.159
Or an idiot that suddenly goes to all RP.

748
00:39:59.340 --> 00:40:01.139
He doesn't actually.

749
00:40:01.199 --> 00:40:01.800
I did check that.

750
00:40:01.860 --> 00:40:03.000
No, he does.

751
00:40:03.059 --> 00:40:03.960
I sincerely hope not.

752
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:07.019
But he doesn't thoroughgoingly lose that accent.

753
00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:08.159
So we're talking about Tommy.

754
00:40:08.219 --> 00:40:16.679
And one of the ways, one of the, yeah, and I, look, I enjoy seeing Tommy as a character, but I think, I love the way he plays it. very good.

755
00:40:16.739 --> 00:40:18.599
It's terribly problematic though.

756
00:40:18.659 --> 00:40:22.019
Like he seems to exist for 2 reasons in the plot.

757
00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:27.719
One is to be a puppy for the evil Buddhist to kick so that we know how evil they are.

758
00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:32.579
So they're horrible to Tommy and so we can tell that they're evil.

759
00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:37.739
And both Sarah Jane and Mikey Yates use their feminine wiles on him.

760
00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:42.119
Like they give him bits of jewellery in order to kind of placate him.

761
00:40:42.179 --> 00:40:43.320
Sly favours.

762
00:40:43.380 --> 00:40:48.179
And that, you know, that leads up to him purloining the blue crystal.

763
00:40:48.239 --> 00:40:54.960
And then the other reason for him to exist is to show how the power of a blue crystal on the mind.

764
00:40:55.019 --> 00:41:00.840
But there is just something unpleasant and easy about that cure.

765
00:41:00.900 --> 00:41:08.460
You know, he's someone with some kind of developmental disability, but he's magically cured and he's off to read, played in the library.

766
00:41:08.519 --> 00:41:11.760
Yeah, I know, but watching it this time for the 1st time.

767
00:41:11.820 --> 00:41:18.539
It made me uncomfortable just with the treatment of disability that there's a hand wavy, easy fix to it.

768
00:41:18.659 --> 00:41:20.760
It just seemed a bit disrespectful.

769
00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:29.400
When I was a kid, I went to one of the few schools in my area that actually had mentally disabled students.

770
00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:39.360
And also before I started going to that school, um, my parents had a um, a Nissan vanette, and would act...

771
00:41:39.360 --> 00:41:40.920
What's to appear as Sarah Sutton?

772
00:41:41.219 --> 00:41:50.039
would actually participate in picking up some of these students from home and taking them to school.

773
00:41:50.099 --> 00:41:52.079
So that was something their parents didn't have to worry about.

774
00:41:52.139 --> 00:41:56.159
So I have always had. disabled people in my life.

775
00:41:56.219 --> 00:41:58.139
So I remember seeing that as good.

776
00:41:58.199 --> 00:41:59.460
And seeing that as something very positive.

777
00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:00.119
Okay.

778
00:42:00.119 --> 00:42:03.300
Well, they do the same with cancer in the final episode, don't they?

779
00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:06.000
The sex Machina of Doctor Who...

780
00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:08.159
Hand wave away. horrible radiation poisoning.

781
00:42:08.219 --> 00:42:08.880
Yeah, yeah.

782
00:42:08.940 --> 00:42:19.559
I mean, I especially like that that transformation, even though it is a magical transformation, it is not a magical cural for Tommy.

783
00:42:19.619 --> 00:42:27.239
Tommy is still not quite sure of what to do with what has happened to him and so seeks guidance on that.

784
00:42:27.300 --> 00:42:30.840
It doesn't, it doesn't change him as a person.

785
00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:37.500
In a way it allows the person who has been inside him to come forward.

786
00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:38.519
And you know what?

787
00:42:38.579 --> 00:42:39.900
Yes, it is problematic.

788
00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:47.940
But I think what's more problematic is that this is the show's 1st treatment of a character with a mental disability.

789
00:42:48.059 --> 00:42:49.500
Yeah.

790
00:42:49.500 --> 00:42:52.139
So we have no precedent to compare it to.

791
00:42:52.199 --> 00:43:01.920
And the thing is, it's uncomfortable because when we see people either patronising him or being mean to him, it kind of gets us thinking, what would we do in that situation?

792
00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:05.639
And it's kind of like, well, you know, we'd probably be like Sarah and Mike.

793
00:43:05.699 --> 00:43:08.519
It's like, okay, well, they're patronising him. still the nice thing to do?

794
00:43:08.579 --> 00:43:11.460
I quite like that it doesn't give us a neat answer.

795
00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:12.179
I agree.

796
00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:34.440
And I liked that you could see the discomfiture, especially in this slack of performance of sympathy, but finding it just as uncomfortable as she is with Tommy, as she was with Bilal and Alpha Centauri, not knowing how to deal with the unfamiliar, and it's actually her own vulnerability and weakness, as a person, not being completely integrated as a person, knowing how just to be herself, with someone who is different or other.

797
00:43:34.500 --> 00:43:42.000
What I did like is watching it again is that I thought that Tommy's transformation is simply analogous to the theme of Buddhist transformation in this.

798
00:43:42.059 --> 00:43:47.519
Well, Choji is not surprised by it, and I guess he's got the idea of no self.

799
00:43:47.579 --> 00:43:55.739
You know, that your person is in a sort of fixed point that the things around us change, but we ourselves change that human beings are a process.

800
00:43:55.800 --> 00:44:04.619
And he says, you know, when everything is new, then nothing is a surprise, because impermanence is an important aspect of Buddhist teaching.

801
00:44:04.679 --> 00:44:17.340
So there's that sort of thread, but in the meantime, the doctor and the brigadier are off, and I think pairing them together when we don't have Katie is a great idea for the final story.

802
00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:23.519
They've gone to a lovely music hall, which is very cheaply realised with a corner of the set, 6 chairs.

803
00:44:23.579 --> 00:44:25.860
With several of the people who later turn up in the monastery.

804
00:44:25.920 --> 00:44:27.900
Yeah, so the women are just sitting there.

805
00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:33.719
And they invite Cyril Sharp's home for some experimentation followed by death.

806
00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:37.019
Usual nice night's entertainment.

807
00:44:37.139 --> 00:44:38.159
And so hairdressing.

808
00:44:38.219 --> 00:44:40.139
That's such a funny...

809
00:44:40.139 --> 00:44:41.340
Did you know it's a throwaway line?

810
00:44:41.460 --> 00:44:43.619
That's actually one of John Levine's.

811
00:44:43.739 --> 00:44:44.760
So he comes in...

812
00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:47.699
So, Doctor, you've gone in for a bit of hairdressing.

813
00:44:47.699 --> 00:44:50.159
And then he apologises because the brigade is there.

814
00:44:50.219 --> 00:44:53.699
Like, I didn't bring there, could of girls, Benton, and he sort of has topologies.

815
00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:55.619
It is really funny, but he's very sweet.

816
00:44:55.679 --> 00:45:02.340
I like the idea, though, that the doctors actually nicked that equipment from boss because it's the same.

817
00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:03.960
It is the same headset, isn't it?

818
00:45:04.019 --> 00:45:05.280
It's Dr. Stevens headset.

819
00:45:05.340 --> 00:45:08.460
So it must have found it in the ruins or something.

820
00:45:08.519 --> 00:45:13.079
I mean, it ties in with the theme that his his greed will be his undoing.

821
00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:16.139
Yeah, the old knicker. right.

822
00:45:16.199 --> 00:45:19.800
Yeah, he's constantly stealing things, isn't he?

823
00:45:19.860 --> 00:45:20.639
It's a poacher.

824
00:45:20.699 --> 00:45:22.320
He was the poacher all the time.

825
00:45:23.400 --> 00:45:26.639
Finding a glowing sandwich, I believe.

826
00:45:27.420 --> 00:45:29.219
One knee up.

827
00:45:30.119 --> 00:45:31.559
England.

828
00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:37.139
So Ben, of course, brings in the blue crystal and the Leonard.

829
00:45:37.139 --> 00:45:38.099
Lovely cup of coffee.

830
00:45:38.159 --> 00:45:38.400
Yes.

831
00:45:38.460 --> 00:45:38.940
Yeah.

832
00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:41.219
He really is the Katie in this story.

833
00:45:41.280 --> 00:45:43.440
He does speak in a lovely cut of coffee, doesn't he?

834
00:45:43.500 --> 00:45:45.059
He and Mrs. Peps, yeah.

835
00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:47.280
Although apparently Mrs. Peps hated coffee. you know that?

836
00:45:47.340 --> 00:45:51.420
Well, also, it's debateable whether coffee had actually hit the British Isles by that.

837
00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:53.219
Oh, no, it's mentioned in Pete's diary.

838
00:45:53.280 --> 00:45:55.320
He goes to coffee houses, but she didn't like it.

839
00:45:55.380 --> 00:45:56.880
It doesn't mean she couldn't make it.

840
00:45:56.940 --> 00:45:57.599
She preferred to.

841
00:45:57.659 --> 00:45:59.820
I make good coffee and I can't.

842
00:45:59.880 --> 00:46:01.739
We'd have never called you Mrs. Peps.

843
00:46:01.860 --> 00:46:03.780
Well, you will start now.

844
00:46:03.840 --> 00:46:04.739
Not to my face.

845
00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:05.820
Not for that reason, though.

846
00:46:05.880 --> 00:46:07.500
Are we back to the car chase yet?

847
00:46:07.559 --> 00:46:08.639
Love the car chain.

848
00:46:08.699 --> 00:46:09.900
Yeah, so we may as well.

849
00:46:09.960 --> 00:46:11.039
That's episode 2 isn't it?

850
00:46:11.099 --> 00:46:12.780
Do you know it's 12 minutes long?

851
00:46:12.840 --> 00:46:13.380
Yes.

852
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:15.599
It's so hard. an episode.

853
00:46:15.659 --> 00:46:17.039
Terry Walsh is in it.

854
00:46:17.099 --> 00:46:17.579
Hooray.

855
00:46:17.639 --> 00:46:18.179
He is too.

856
00:46:18.239 --> 00:46:19.679
Yes, he actually gets a line of dial.

857
00:46:19.739 --> 00:46:20.880
He does get a line of dialogue.

858
00:46:20.940 --> 00:46:25.679
He is buying a speedboat before Lupton pushes him into the water and drives off and punches him in the face.

859
00:46:25.739 --> 00:46:27.960
Oh, wait, no, he zaps him.

860
00:46:28.019 --> 00:46:29.460
He does zap him in.

861
00:46:29.519 --> 00:46:30.599
Yeah, and then he...

862
00:46:30.659 --> 00:46:31.739
Yeah, throws him into the water.

863
00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:34.980
And then there's Stuart fell getting run over by poetry in a hovercraft.

864
00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:36.719
Which was decided on the day.

865
00:46:36.780 --> 00:46:40.380
So they must have, that's just what Stuart Fell was wearing, I suppose.

866
00:46:40.440 --> 00:46:51.480
I think that that's actually a trenchant commentary on Pertweese attitude in general towards the oppressed masses that he'll just run over them in a hovercraft.

867
00:46:51.599 --> 00:47:05.340
It's also a reference to live and let die, where Roger Moore just pilots a speedboat over little bits of land to get away from his pursuers and then the owner of the hovercraft in conversation.

868
00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:13.440
The owner of the hovercraft is actually Mr. Hopkins, who arrives with the hovercraft and gets zapped by Lupton. hes the actual guy who owns it.

869
00:47:13.619 --> 00:47:19.500
And he doubles for per on the bits going up onto the bank and this, that.

870
00:47:19.559 --> 00:47:21.719
So that's not Terry Welsh in a horrible wig.

871
00:47:21.780 --> 00:47:23.940
Michael Pinder in a horrible week.

872
00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:28.559
It's actually a bit sad that, you know, pertly wanted, always wanted this show to be so much bigger.

873
00:47:28.619 --> 00:47:30.480
He kind of gets there in sea devils.

874
00:47:30.539 --> 00:47:34.199
You can see how happy he is romping around. in his own Navy lark.

875
00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:35.699
With all that hardware and stuff.

876
00:47:35.699 --> 00:47:37.139
With all that, he loves a bit of hardware.

877
00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:45.960
But, and in this one too, he gets his Roger Moore car chase, but you can see there's always that, it was always, I think, frustrated by the eventual scope of Doctor Who.

878
00:47:46.019 --> 00:47:49.260
There's always a little bit, wanted to be a bit bigger than the screen would allow him.

879
00:47:49.320 --> 00:47:54.179
Did you hear about the accident during some of the gyroscope footage?

880
00:47:54.239 --> 00:47:54.780
No.

881
00:47:54.780 --> 00:47:56.219
John Durf.

882
00:47:56.280 --> 00:47:57.480
The bit where John Durth steals.

883
00:47:57.539 --> 00:47:59.099
That gyroscope.

884
00:47:59.159 --> 00:48:01.260
Yeah, the bit where Lupton steals the gyroscope.

885
00:48:01.320 --> 00:48:11.699
John Durth was approaching it, it fell over and disintegrated, and a piece of rotor cut his lapel on his jacket could have killed him.

886
00:48:11.760 --> 00:48:12.480
Wow.

887
00:48:12.480 --> 00:48:24.239
They had, um, they had a backup gyroscope and, but he was naturally a bit, um, a bit wary about getting on it. you know, still carried on.

888
00:48:24.300 --> 00:48:27.900
But yeah, we could have lost John Durf, which was a Wallace helicopter.

889
00:48:27.960 --> 00:48:32.639
It was the wall. the same one used in, well, same type of one that was used in, you only live twice.

890
00:48:32.699 --> 00:48:34.619
And Captain Wallace pilots.

891
00:48:34.679 --> 00:48:35.219
This is one as well.

892
00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:38.340
This apparently is the only one that's ever allowed to fly the damn thing.

893
00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:39.480
It's the same whirly.

894
00:48:40.139 --> 00:48:41.159
It's Little Nelly.

895
00:48:41.219 --> 00:48:41.760
Little Nelly.

896
00:48:41.820 --> 00:48:43.619
Later to appear...

897
00:48:43.619 --> 00:48:44.940
It actually does break apart like that.

898
00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:49.860
Yeah, later next year, just the very next year to appear in the Rocky Horror picture show.

899
00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:51.420
Nell Campbell.

900
00:48:51.420 --> 00:48:52.559
I guess.

901
00:48:52.619 --> 00:48:53.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

902
00:48:53.400 --> 00:48:54.119
No, of course.

903
00:48:54.179 --> 00:48:57.059
Sounding much like a small whining helicopter.

904
00:48:57.239 --> 00:49:09.719
It is a very silly car chase, but this whole season has been Pertwee's greatest hits, and I think you can't finish the year without having a car chase, and it is much better than the car chase in invasion of the dinosaurs.

905
00:49:09.780 --> 00:49:11.340
Well, that just goes nowhere.

906
00:49:11.400 --> 00:49:12.119
That's boring.

907
00:49:12.179 --> 00:49:13.739
So we're on the planet of the spiders.

908
00:49:13.800 --> 00:49:19.679
Suddenly, it's realised beautifully with CSO. and as you describe, it's a Gypsy caravan.

909
00:49:19.739 --> 00:49:20.519
The Rockies.

910
00:49:20.579 --> 00:49:22.739
Yeah, sort of maces, isn't it?

911
00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:25.860
I've been there And, uh, and buttes.

912
00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:27.780
Are they really pictures of the Rockies?

913
00:49:27.840 --> 00:49:31.440
I thought that they were like, they looked like they were made out of Jabalai, you know, and.

914
00:49:31.440 --> 00:49:40.739
Well, you see, you've got 3 levels. the actors, then you've got their Jabberite models, and then in the background, you've got the valleys in Colorado.

915
00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:43.860
Yeah, photographic flats, spot the difference between the three.

916
00:49:43.920 --> 00:49:46.679
Yeah, particularly the actors and the flat.

917
00:49:46.739 --> 00:49:49.440
I mean, it's kind of terrible, isn't it?

918
00:49:49.500 --> 00:49:51.780
Well, you know what?

919
00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:53.340
They're being ambitious.

920
00:49:53.400 --> 00:49:56.639
If you did it as a still shot, did a bit of Photoshop work on it.

921
00:49:56.699 --> 00:49:59.940
Composite, it was like a dark room and you had your eyes.

922
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:00.360
Yeah, exactly.

923
00:50:00.360 --> 00:50:00.659
Exactly.

924
00:50:00.659 --> 00:50:01.440
It'd look fantastic.

925
00:50:01.500 --> 00:50:02.159
It looked fantastic.

926
00:50:02.219 --> 00:50:03.300
I was going to say possible.

927
00:50:04.019 --> 00:50:09.900
But at the same time, they quite wisely only decide to use it for a few establishing shots.

928
00:50:10.019 --> 00:50:19.079
There's a really lamentable shot where like they're pushing Sarah off a cliff, I think, and it's all serious. there's so much fringing on that one.

929
00:50:19.139 --> 00:50:19.980
I don't know what went wrong.

930
00:50:20.099 --> 00:50:24.420
CSO was always being asked to do slightly more than it could, but that's what's terrific about Doctor Who.

931
00:50:24.480 --> 00:50:27.840
It was always trying to push its own boundaries. not always successfully, but admirably.

932
00:50:27.900 --> 00:50:34.139
There are some much more beautiful things going on here than just the visual ticks or even a few desultory performances.

933
00:50:34.199 --> 00:50:37.800
There's the whole notion, indeed, the 1st use of the term regeneration.

934
00:50:37.860 --> 00:50:40.019
Is that not a Buddhist term in itself?

935
00:50:40.079 --> 00:50:42.179
Well, I mean, I don't know.

936
00:50:42.239 --> 00:50:51.119
Choji, when he talks about it, talks about, you know, the new man and the old man and that kind of thing, I kind of talked earlier on about change.

937
00:50:51.179 --> 00:50:52.739
Not a moment to say.

938
00:50:52.800 --> 00:50:54.780
Yes, my dear.

939
00:50:55.619 --> 00:51:00.539
Yeah, so that does happen a little bit later on, doesn't it?

940
00:51:00.599 --> 00:51:03.659
When we get back from Metabelis.

941
00:51:04.079 --> 00:51:05.099
Yeah, it's the end of episode five.

942
00:51:05.219 --> 00:51:05.699
Yeah.

943
00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:12.420
But, like, in the meantime, we're introduced to this sort of terrible village where everyone's kind of speaks with sort of Welsh or mum said accents.

944
00:51:12.539 --> 00:51:15.780
And this is something that I remember really well as a kid.

945
00:51:15.900 --> 00:51:16.980
Do you remember this, Richard?

946
00:51:17.039 --> 00:51:18.719
Like, just the doctor's unconscious.

947
00:51:18.780 --> 00:51:20.280
He has an exposition coma.

948
00:51:20.340 --> 00:51:21.719
Yay.

949
00:51:21.780 --> 00:51:24.179
And he explains, he says, get the machine.

950
00:51:24.300 --> 00:51:26.159
Go and get the wood planer out of it.

951
00:51:26.219 --> 00:51:28.440
It looks like a wood planer.

952
00:51:28.500 --> 00:51:30.119
Ridiculous.

953
00:51:30.119 --> 00:51:32.340
Like all of that's really memorable.

954
00:51:32.400 --> 00:51:37.800
I just can't bring myself to criticise it because it's so much part of what I remember Doctor Who being is a key.

955
00:51:37.860 --> 00:51:40.440
It's so lovely pertly gets...

956
00:51:40.500 --> 00:51:41.820
I mean, that's his last really good fight.

957
00:51:41.880 --> 00:51:55.079
He gets a bit of a fight in episode five, which isn't as good, but that fight in episode 3 is really good because they're very, very careful to use pertly for all the front-on shots and then only use Walsh for the background.

958
00:51:55.139 --> 00:51:56.519
Walsh has a new win.

959
00:51:56.519 --> 00:51:58.380
Walsh has a new win.

960
00:51:58.440 --> 00:51:58.920
Yeah, yeah.

961
00:51:58.980 --> 00:52:05.219
So before it was kind of like this sort of toilet brush that was based on his 1970s hair.

962
00:52:05.880 --> 00:52:10.320
And so you could always tell that it was Terry Welsh because it looked nothing like Pursuit.

963
00:52:10.380 --> 00:52:12.659
But they've given him a sort of bouffont.

964
00:52:12.659 --> 00:52:14.760
Yeah. slightly longer at the back.

965
00:52:14.820 --> 00:52:16.920
Yeah, so it actually looks like him.

966
00:52:16.980 --> 00:52:22.019
And like I just thought, 0 my god, he's got a new wig, but it actually turns out to be the case.

967
00:52:22.079 --> 00:52:23.340
Yes, it is, it is.

968
00:52:23.400 --> 00:52:23.940
It a new week.

969
00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:25.679
And, you know, that fight is so well done.

970
00:52:25.679 --> 00:52:31.320
And the doctor's trying to claw back to the Titus and gets clobbered and then, you know, he has his exposition coma.

971
00:52:31.320 --> 00:52:39.840
And, okay, yeah, Pert was great in it, but I think it's just another chance for Liz Slade and to shine because, you know, she's doing all that.

972
00:52:40.139 --> 00:52:40.860
Where's the key?

973
00:52:40.920 --> 00:52:42.119
Where's the key?

974
00:52:42.900 --> 00:52:43.920
And she goes out bravely again.

975
00:52:43.980 --> 00:52:45.179
She goes up the perfume.

976
00:52:45.239 --> 00:52:48.239
We've got the blue moonlight of Metabolus 3.

977
00:52:48.480 --> 00:52:52.860
And yeah, she gets caught and it's up to Mike Gambit to go out and get it.

978
00:52:52.920 --> 00:52:56.639
Yes, we've got Gareth Hunt before he was Mike Gambit.

979
00:52:56.699 --> 00:52:57.480
Good.

980
00:52:57.539 --> 00:52:59.699
Well, the lines are pretty awful.

981
00:52:59.760 --> 00:53:01.739
He's perfectly serviceable.

982
00:53:01.800 --> 00:53:03.840
I mean, you know, he has to have. heard that.

983
00:53:03.900 --> 00:53:09.840
He has to have a bit of Biffo with his brother, Tuar, played by Ralph Alice.

984
00:53:09.900 --> 00:53:13.800
He's pretty dreadful real, if anyone's going to get the Jimmy Award.

985
00:53:13.860 --> 00:53:17.519
Todd adores him and as Rod tends to say.

986
00:53:17.579 --> 00:53:19.260
Twinkles, doesn't he, in a twinkish way?

987
00:53:19.320 --> 00:53:21.840
And as Rod tends to say in these moments.

988
00:53:21.900 --> 00:53:25.019
When they're on screen, when they finish having their conversation.

989
00:53:25.079 --> 00:53:26.099
He says, now kiss.

990
00:53:27.420 --> 00:53:34.019
Yeah, I think all that stuff in the village with Perpee and Sarah is, you know, they're really good.

991
00:53:34.079 --> 00:53:36.300
The 3 younger metabolians are very good.

992
00:53:36.360 --> 00:53:37.320
Sabor is very good.

993
00:53:37.380 --> 00:53:39.300
Look, Jenny Laird is Nesca.

994
00:53:39.360 --> 00:53:41.639
There's a reason I named it water.

995
00:53:41.699 --> 00:53:43.260
It doesn't sound like any of her own family.

996
00:53:43.320 --> 00:53:46.380
It's still trucked in from Rado.

997
00:53:46.440 --> 00:53:49.679
All 3 all 3 boys have the west country accent.

998
00:53:49.739 --> 00:53:53.880
Their sister, Rager. speaks with RP.

999
00:53:54.000 --> 00:53:57.059
Like her mother, you know, it's kind of like in...

1000
00:53:57.059 --> 00:53:58.199
They're from South Metabolist.

1001
00:53:58.260 --> 00:54:00.360
Yeah, yeah, from the nice county.

1002
00:54:00.420 --> 00:54:02.159
It's a nice village.

1003
00:54:02.219 --> 00:54:04.320
It was totally destroyed because they were just...

1004
00:54:04.380 --> 00:54:07.260
That was so unutterably obnoxious.

1005
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:09.780
It wasn't spiders at all.

1006
00:54:09.840 --> 00:54:11.880
No, I hardly remember them at all.

1007
00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:19.619
We haven't got onto the what's really great about this and apart from the allegories, which I really love, and I really love Campo, and I really love the way it's set up.

1008
00:54:19.679 --> 00:54:20.880
It feels so cold.

1009
00:54:20.940 --> 00:54:24.059
It feels so dark and John Durth, that can't be his real name.

1010
00:54:24.119 --> 00:54:25.380
It just suits them too well.

1011
00:54:25.440 --> 00:54:29.880
Those scenes, every bit as potent as I remember them at that very early.

1012
00:54:29.880 --> 00:54:34.920
The way he explains to Barnes why he's come and what he wants.

1013
00:54:34.980 --> 00:54:37.260
It's really good, isn't it?

1014
00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:38.460
It's Willie Lowman.

1015
00:54:38.519 --> 00:54:39.539
Death of a salesman.

1016
00:54:39.599 --> 00:54:40.320
Arthur Miller.

1017
00:54:40.380 --> 00:54:44.340
I had a rotten life and every man in the audience would have said, yeah, yeah, we know this story.

1018
00:54:44.400 --> 00:54:46.079
And most people watching him go, you know what?

1019
00:54:46.139 --> 00:54:46.500
Yeah.

1020
00:54:46.559 --> 00:54:47.579
He's just a little man.

1021
00:54:47.579 --> 00:54:49.800
Doing the same opportunity.

1022
00:54:49.860 --> 00:54:51.000
Maybe I'd do the same thing.

1023
00:54:51.059 --> 00:54:51.480
Yeah.

1024
00:54:51.480 --> 00:54:53.280
I like that. and he's good.

1025
00:54:53.340 --> 00:54:55.679
He's smart, like he outwits the spider.

1026
00:54:55.739 --> 00:54:58.679
He gives as good as he gets, he conspires with her.

1027
00:54:58.739 --> 00:55:00.840
She pretty quickly recognises him as an equal.

1028
00:55:00.900 --> 00:55:08.940
Like he kind of has a tragic end because he's grown to despise the spiders just as he despises all of the people around him.

1029
00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:11.460
And so he threatens them and they just kill him.

1030
00:55:11.519 --> 00:55:15.960
Is he really one of the most sympathetic villains we've ever had in Doctor Who, though?

1031
00:55:16.019 --> 00:55:16.980
No, he's repulsive.

1032
00:55:17.039 --> 00:55:19.079
He looks awful.

1033
00:55:19.139 --> 00:55:20.820
He's kind of, he's got...

1034
00:55:20.820 --> 00:55:21.480
Yeah, sure.

1035
00:55:21.539 --> 00:55:22.980
He's run down.

1036
00:55:23.039 --> 00:55:24.659
I said sympathy, though.

1037
00:55:24.719 --> 00:55:26.579
So, you know, with compassion for him.

1038
00:55:26.639 --> 00:55:29.760
We, and this story is about Buddhist compassion.

1039
00:55:29.820 --> 00:55:35.219
But really all we're seeing is someone who's battling with his ego and not being able to see that transcending his circumstances.

1040
00:55:35.280 --> 00:55:37.079
There are 2 ways of doing it.

1041
00:55:37.139 --> 00:55:39.780
You actually change yourself and your outlook in how you look at the world.

1042
00:55:39.840 --> 00:55:45.119
Or you implode over the failures and losses that your own ego hasn't been able to achieve.

1043
00:55:45.179 --> 00:55:46.980
So he's the ego-bound earth base.

1044
00:55:47.039 --> 00:55:51.179
Yeah, yeah. human person in this one who just hasn't achieved transcendence.

1045
00:55:51.239 --> 00:55:57.119
But are we supposed to then have sympathy for his fellow monastery goers?

1046
00:55:57.179 --> 00:55:58.380
Because I don't.

1047
00:55:58.440 --> 00:56:04.559
I've actually got more sympathy for John Durth's character for Lupton than I do for any of his other, so, you know, blokes in the...

1048
00:56:04.619 --> 00:56:06.840
I don't care that he's going off and nobody likes the spiders.

1049
00:56:06.900 --> 00:56:09.960
So I don't mind at all that he's trying to get power from the spiders.

1050
00:56:10.019 --> 00:56:13.079
You know who I think we're meant to have sympathy for on the other side of that coin?

1051
00:56:13.139 --> 00:56:14.099
It's Mikey Yates.

1052
00:56:14.159 --> 00:56:15.059
Very much so.

1053
00:56:15.119 --> 00:56:19.019
Because Lupton's cronies all sit around going, what are we going to do?

1054
00:56:19.079 --> 00:56:19.679
What are we going to do?

1055
00:56:19.739 --> 00:56:20.280
What are we going to do?

1056
00:56:20.340 --> 00:56:22.800
You know, what am I going to do?

1057
00:56:22.860 --> 00:56:24.719
I can't talk to the police.

1058
00:56:24.780 --> 00:56:29.280
But Mike comes in and they knock him out because it needs to be postponed for an episode.

1059
00:56:29.340 --> 00:56:32.940
Mike comes in and says, well, we try to get them back.

1060
00:56:33.059 --> 00:56:35.340
And they're like what's in it for you?

1061
00:56:35.400 --> 00:56:36.599
He's like, my friends are there too.

1062
00:56:36.719 --> 00:56:39.000
I know it's dangerous, but I need to help them.

1063
00:56:39.059 --> 00:56:42.300
And that is Mike giving up his ego.

1064
00:56:42.360 --> 00:56:45.119
He's saying, you know, yes, we might die.

1065
00:56:45.179 --> 00:56:46.199
We might be in danger.

1066
00:56:46.260 --> 00:56:48.900
But I want the doctor and Sarah Jane back.

1067
00:56:48.960 --> 00:56:54.840
And he actually says, the doctor and Sarah, I want them back and it's like, you've hardly known Sarah.

1068
00:56:54.900 --> 00:56:58.199
And it just adds to that immediate chemistry they had earlier.

1069
00:56:58.260 --> 00:57:01.440
And I think this is Richard Franklin's best performance. think it's his finest style.

1070
00:57:01.500 --> 00:57:03.719
They actually had great chemistry in episode one as well.

1071
00:57:03.780 --> 00:57:05.219
Like, you notice they're really...

1072
00:57:05.219 --> 00:57:07.019
I love seeing the tractor, I remember.

1073
00:57:07.019 --> 00:57:08.280
It's kind of like 2 young males.

1074
00:57:08.280 --> 00:57:09.300
Sarah's forgiven him.

1075
00:57:09.360 --> 00:57:10.380
No, very much so.

1076
00:57:10.440 --> 00:57:13.019
She's got no reason not to forgive me really. wasn't.

1077
00:57:13.920 --> 00:57:14.460
No, she was.

1078
00:57:14.519 --> 00:57:16.019
She actually was affected by this.

1079
00:57:16.079 --> 00:57:16.739
Yeah, yeah.

1080
00:57:16.739 --> 00:57:18.000
It was threatening much so.

1081
00:57:18.059 --> 00:57:20.280
But yeah, I think she was so much but she was.

1082
00:57:20.340 --> 00:57:22.199
I think she realises he was misguided.

1083
00:57:22.320 --> 00:57:23.760
But it's interesting.

1084
00:57:23.820 --> 00:57:29.340
The 2 male leads, young male protagonists in this, both kind of it's the same role, really.

1085
00:57:29.400 --> 00:57:32.280
It's Gareth Hunt and Mike Yates.

1086
00:57:32.340 --> 00:57:35.579
And you're able to put them together, but then they would have been called Mike Hunt.

1087
00:57:35.639 --> 00:57:37.320
So probably would never have happened.

1088
00:57:37.559 --> 00:57:41.340
So maybe Gareth Hunt should get my...

1089
00:57:41.340 --> 00:57:42.659
Jenny Led.

1090
00:57:42.719 --> 00:57:44.639
Why wouldn't they be called Gareth Yates anyway?

1091
00:57:44.820 --> 00:57:56.760
So you talk about the monastery guys who have spiders on their back, but of course the big, amazing scene that we really remember is Sarah with the spider on her back.

1092
00:57:56.820 --> 00:57:58.739
And so they're all in the line.

1093
00:57:58.739 --> 00:58:00.059
It's an action figure of that, don't you?

1094
00:58:00.119 --> 00:58:01.500
It's wonderful, isn't it?

1095
00:58:01.559 --> 00:58:10.619
They're in the larder, you know, like they're being stored Sabor and Sarah in that sort of web thing that sort of keeps them prisoner.

1096
00:58:10.679 --> 00:58:13.679
Sarah gets taken away and negotiates with the queen's spider.

1097
00:58:13.739 --> 00:58:14.760
I mean, Akia shelves.

1098
00:58:14.760 --> 00:58:15.780
Yes, they are.

1099
00:58:15.900 --> 00:58:18.780
And so the queen ends up on her back.

1100
00:58:18.780 --> 00:58:22.199
And then at that time he's about the same time.

1101
00:58:22.260 --> 00:58:26.340
The doctor gets to speak to the great one.

1102
00:58:26.400 --> 00:58:28.500
And that scene with the great one.

1103
00:58:28.559 --> 00:58:30.599
I mean, it's spectacular, isn't it?

1104
00:58:30.659 --> 00:58:32.219
It really is sad. lovely set.

1105
00:58:32.280 --> 00:58:33.000
It looks gorgeous.

1106
00:58:33.059 --> 00:58:33.900
It's beautiful.

1107
00:58:33.900 --> 00:58:35.219
We don't even see her too.

1108
00:58:35.280 --> 00:58:40.079
No, we don't in that one when she when she turns about and you do and pertly really carries it off.

1109
00:58:40.139 --> 00:58:45.960
And it's surprising because you don't actually get to see him to stretch himself really in this role, do you?

1110
00:58:46.019 --> 00:58:46.679
You really don't.

1111
00:58:46.739 --> 00:58:47.820
He has lovely quiet moments.

1112
00:58:47.880 --> 00:58:50.039
But he looks honestly frightened.

1113
00:58:50.099 --> 00:58:53.760
And I can tell you as a seven-year-old boy, I felt it as well. was convincing.

1114
00:58:53.820 --> 00:58:58.980
The very 1st time, the doctor, and this is how good pertly is when he's rallied, shows fear.

1115
00:58:59.039 --> 00:59:08.280
And he actually is terrified of the great one and she does cause him to turn around and he does pull the face and he's gurning and it's absolutely palpable.

1116
00:59:08.340 --> 00:59:10.980
You've never felt fear before, doctor, have you?

1117
00:59:11.039 --> 00:59:16.679
Xander always says that Pertuy is at his best when he's on the back for it when he's not in control of a scene.

1118
00:59:16.739 --> 00:59:19.739
Yeah, he's going through a lot of pain in this one too.

1119
00:59:19.800 --> 00:59:20.940
His back had been causing problems.

1120
00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:22.860
Did you know who took over?

1121
00:59:22.920 --> 00:59:27.960
Because it was usually Delgado or Katie that went into his dressing room and did his back massage.

1122
00:59:28.019 --> 00:59:32.699
Terry Walsh took over. and it was Terry giving in, giving him the back rubs.

1123
00:59:32.699 --> 00:59:44.699
And they were filming at Marchant. you know, when they were, again, that moment it came again when once more Terry Walsh was giving their back massage and there was a knock on the door and it was actually a field marshal or some such.

1124
00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:49.739
She said, my god, pertly so puffed her, because he did answer the door again in rollers and of course.

1125
00:59:49.800 --> 00:59:53.579
And how you could wear a corset and be getting a...

1126
00:59:54.179 --> 01:00:02.039
Let's be kind to Pertz, because it was actually quite common for men when filming anyway, too, of course, it's Pat McNee or them all throughout the new.

1127
01:00:02.039 --> 01:00:02.639
Oh, God, yes.

1128
01:00:02.699 --> 01:00:03.420
And couldn't you tell?

1129
01:00:04.860 --> 01:00:07.619
Yeah, the Vivian Lee syndrome.

1130
01:00:07.679 --> 01:00:09.599
It wasn't just Berley.

1131
01:00:09.659 --> 01:00:11.940
I'm never going to be able to watch season 11 again.

1132
01:00:12.000 --> 01:00:13.079
It's quite obvious.

1133
01:00:13.199 --> 01:00:17.340
When he's standing around in the corridors, the line of his jacket is just so tight.

1134
01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:20.099
Yeah, I did notice and I'm like, wow, he's still really thin here.

1135
01:00:20.159 --> 01:00:24.480
No, it's of course. outrageous.

1136
01:00:24.539 --> 01:00:25.739
Fantastic bus.

1137
01:00:25.739 --> 01:00:27.239
Why didn't anyone finish it?

1138
01:00:27.900 --> 01:00:30.659
Why didn't anyone suggest a corset for Colin in season 23?

1139
01:00:30.719 --> 01:00:31.679
think that was one.

1140
01:00:31.800 --> 01:00:32.880
Okay, right.

1141
01:00:32.940 --> 01:00:34.260
Can't wait for that one.

1142
01:00:34.320 --> 01:00:35.039
I told you're doing this.

1143
01:00:35.159 --> 01:00:37.380
This is a really major point in Doctor Who.

1144
01:00:37.440 --> 01:00:38.280
We've never seen it.

1145
01:00:38.340 --> 01:00:40.440
We hadn't seen a proper regeneration like this before.

1146
01:00:40.500 --> 01:00:42.360
Well, we haven't seen a regeneration, have we?

1147
01:00:42.420 --> 01:00:44.280
And so at all, really.

1148
01:00:44.340 --> 01:00:49.199
I mean, we don't get any explanation for what happened to Harnal.

1149
01:00:49.320 --> 01:00:50.159
No, it's magical.

1150
01:00:50.219 --> 01:00:57.659
Yeah, and they and they go out of their way because Troughton's being shifty and unreliable. not supposed to know it.

1151
01:00:57.659 --> 01:00:59.219
It's the doctor for that 1st episode.

1152
01:00:59.280 --> 01:01:04.320
It's only Polly that actually carries the audience so long. takes our hand for the small ones.

1153
01:01:04.380 --> 01:01:05.880
But I'm with Ben.

1154
01:01:05.940 --> 01:01:07.380
I'm not convinced it's the doctor.

1155
01:01:07.440 --> 01:01:09.000
Would the doctor do this with the doctor?

1156
01:01:09.059 --> 01:01:12.059
And then the doctor's sentenced to have his appearance change.

1157
01:01:12.119 --> 01:01:14.340
Like they don't call it his regeneration.

1158
01:01:14.400 --> 01:01:15.539
Which is why I never.

1159
01:01:15.599 --> 01:01:16.019
Yeah, exactly.

1160
01:01:16.079 --> 01:01:21.179
I don't see that as a Well, we know it's a regeneration because of Spearhead, but it's...

1161
01:01:21.179 --> 01:01:25.019
No, it's called his he's going to change his appearance and begin his exile.

1162
01:01:25.079 --> 01:01:34.260
And so here we get the explanation, which is when a Time Lord's body reaches crisis or when the actor playing him asks for too much money.

1163
01:01:35.340 --> 01:01:49.500
Every cell in his body sort of changes and he becomes a completely new person and so Choji explains it and then helpfully demonstrates it for all of us at home as well.

1164
01:01:49.559 --> 01:01:59.039
But before that we get, we get the scene with Sarah with the spider on her back, which Donna rips off shamelessly in turn left with the beetle on her back.

1165
01:02:02.280 --> 01:02:08.760
But the doctor is being controlled by the great one just as much as Sarah is being controlled by the queen.

1166
01:02:08.760 --> 01:02:12.539
And I think Canpo says, you know, not all spiders are on the back.

1167
01:02:12.659 --> 01:02:16.380
And on one level, that's about the great one.

1168
01:02:16.440 --> 01:02:16.980
Do you know what I mean?

1169
01:02:17.039 --> 01:02:22.679
The great one isn't on the doctor's back, but she's controlling him every bit as much as Sarah was being controlled.

1170
01:02:22.739 --> 01:02:26.099
But then it's about his greed and his thirst for knowledge.

1171
01:02:26.099 --> 01:02:28.079
And that's the other thing as well.

1172
01:02:28.139 --> 01:02:32.280
That the spider represents greed or thirst.

1173
01:02:32.400 --> 01:02:37.079
She even uses the word thirst to describe a desire for the crystal.

1174
01:02:37.139 --> 01:02:40.199
And her whole... very Sydney, isn't it, really?

1175
01:02:41.699 --> 01:03:01.199
But that word 1st is, you know, like a technical term in Buddhism, Tanha, which is the name of Martin Kloon's mother in snake dance. is the word for thirst, and it's that craving, that desire, that clinging, which Buddhism talks about, and she exemplifies it.

1176
01:03:01.260 --> 01:03:02.639
She's all about the ego.

1177
01:03:02.699 --> 01:03:06.539
She's created a giant replica of her own brain.

1178
01:03:06.599 --> 01:03:09.480
Like she's completely obsessed with herself.

1179
01:03:09.599 --> 01:03:12.840
Like this podcast, like the Pertwee era.

1180
01:03:12.900 --> 01:03:15.840
And it's that's what ends up destroying her.

1181
01:03:15.900 --> 01:03:24.840
And it's a great scene, that final scene with Pertwee, begging the great one, not for his life, but for hers, you know.

1182
01:03:24.900 --> 01:03:25.619
Yes.

1183
01:03:25.619 --> 01:03:28.679
He's really terribly heroic.

1184
01:03:28.739 --> 01:03:33.300
And I like that our last proper scene of Pertui.

1185
01:03:33.360 --> 01:03:35.400
He's terribly small.

1186
01:03:35.460 --> 01:03:37.860
He's much smaller than the thing he's trying to confront.

1187
01:03:37.920 --> 01:03:43.559
He's not being obnoxious, you know, he's not trying to score points.

1188
01:03:43.619 --> 01:03:45.119
He's not trying to trick anyone.

1189
01:03:45.179 --> 01:03:49.619
He's just very straightforwardly trying to save the villain's life.

1190
01:03:49.739 --> 01:03:58.920
And he's gone back there to see her after giving up any idea that he's going to use the crystal to solve the problem.

1191
01:03:58.980 --> 01:04:02.340
He's gone back to let the problem solve itself.

1192
01:04:02.400 --> 01:04:08.940
He's giving up the idea of agency, he's giving up the idea of control and he's just going to let things play out.

1193
01:04:09.000 --> 01:04:22.320
It's very powerful for someone who, for a character who has always been so determined, not just to be a man of physical action, but to be a man always moving forward, not to wait and do nothing.

1194
01:04:22.380 --> 01:04:29.400
And yeah, it's very, it's very affecting when he makes the final decision to go back and do it.

1195
01:04:29.460 --> 01:04:35.039
And also when he acknowledges that he is responsible for this situation.

1196
01:04:35.099 --> 01:04:41.519
And it's not spoken, but he's not just responsible for the great one hunting the crystalline, the spiders coming to earth.

1197
01:04:41.579 --> 01:04:42.719
He's not just responsible for that.

1198
01:04:42.780 --> 01:04:44.820
He's responsible for Professor Clegg's death.

1199
01:04:44.880 --> 01:04:45.780
Very much.

1200
01:04:45.780 --> 01:04:46.500
At the beginning.

1201
01:04:46.559 --> 01:04:47.880
Yeah, I mean, it's easy to forget that.

1202
01:04:47.880 --> 01:04:51.119
Yeah, I think the story should have played that up a little bit more too.

1203
01:04:51.179 --> 01:04:55.860
There is a, you know, like he tries to sacrifice himself in episode 2 by looking at the crystal.

1204
01:04:55.920 --> 01:05:00.420
You know, he risked his own life because he's responsible for Cyril Shapp's death.

1205
01:05:00.480 --> 01:05:06.659
But it would have been nice, I think, that for this to be a kind of payment for that negligence as well.

1206
01:05:06.719 --> 01:05:13.380
I guess it is an example of his thirst for knowledge causing actual harm to someone.

1207
01:05:13.440 --> 01:05:14.039
Yes.

1208
01:05:14.039 --> 01:05:16.980
Because it is identified as his thirst for knowledge that's the problem.

1209
01:05:17.039 --> 01:05:21.900
It would have been nice, I think, to see it foregrounded a bit more, or that link made more explicit.

1210
01:05:21.960 --> 01:05:34.320
And I mean, it does also throw back to earlier examples in the per era, such as, for instance, when he chucks the axonite in the particle accelerator, even though he's been repeatedly told not to.

1211
01:05:34.380 --> 01:05:43.739
And when Windsor tries to stop him, Winces killed and the doctor actually makes everything worse because the Axons realise they're onto them and they need to advance their plans.

1212
01:05:43.800 --> 01:05:48.179
And that's one of the other scenes where the 3rd doctor is truly scared.

1213
01:05:48.239 --> 01:05:52.320
You know, he stumbles over his words, which he never does.

1214
01:05:52.380 --> 01:05:58.260
It just comes back to something, I know Nathan, you and I have been discussing since season 8. does Pertwe's character evolve.

1215
01:05:58.320 --> 01:05:59.400
What do you think?

1216
01:05:59.460 --> 01:06:00.840
No, I think he does.

1217
01:06:00.900 --> 01:06:01.860
I really do.

1218
01:06:01.920 --> 01:06:17.400
And I think it starts in season eight, but it really sort of fully kicks in in season 9 and he's obnoxious in season 7 repeatedly, even in as late as the demons in season eight.

1219
01:06:17.460 --> 01:06:23.760
He's being unnecessarily unpleasant to people and getting their backs up and preventing them from helping him.

1220
01:06:23.880 --> 01:06:27.239
And he does mellow and by season 11.

1221
01:06:27.539 --> 01:06:32.760
You know, there's a smile. you know, he does a little bit of comedy, which is quite nice.

1222
01:06:32.820 --> 01:06:39.659
He's still very contained and very vertical and very kind of stiff.

1223
01:06:39.719 --> 01:06:50.519
And I don't think he's as compelling to watch as, perhaps spoiler alert, his successor is.

1224
01:06:50.579 --> 01:07:04.380
But, But he is he is quite likeable and I don't think I was wrong as a 10 year old to think he was a pretty good doctor, you know, in the bits of season 11 that I actually saw.

1225
01:07:05.519 --> 01:07:07.380
It couldn't be more.

1226
01:07:07.440 --> 01:07:08.099
Is it Michael?

1227
01:07:08.219 --> 01:07:09.960
I couldn't say more than that.

1228
01:07:10.019 --> 01:07:21.900
I loved him as a boy and I came to, you know, sway from that opinion, and I think there are certainly stories in the middle, the middle 8 of his tenure where he doesn't quite achieve that, but 1st and lasts.

1229
01:07:22.019 --> 01:07:28.199
Maybe I'm one of the few I really like season 7 and even with some of the pitfalls.

1230
01:07:28.260 --> 01:07:29.400
I really love season 11.

1231
01:07:29.760 --> 01:07:32.039
And it's the girls that carry it along.

1232
01:07:32.099 --> 01:07:54.420
I think Pertwee has come to realise again that he is part of an ensemble cast and that he's only at his best when he's kind of playing 2nd fiddle to the woman who's actually propelling it along, which is a very avengers scenario and part of the precept of what the Pertwee era was going to be about, in fact, borrowing from those styles of performance.

1233
01:07:54.480 --> 01:08:01.800
The female guest cast of this season are even more varied than the ones we saw last season.

1234
01:08:01.860 --> 01:08:06.000
So we have a lady of a castle and a serving wench.

1235
01:08:06.119 --> 01:08:09.659
We have the mother of a new community.

1236
01:08:09.659 --> 01:08:15.599
And even though she's talking about world peace and everything, She actually seems to be quite a nasty piece of work.

1237
01:08:15.960 --> 01:08:19.319
I think it does fall down a bit in depth to the Daleks.

1238
01:08:19.439 --> 01:08:22.319
Or the Queen of the Spiders and Mikey Yates.

1239
01:08:23.220 --> 01:08:25.920
You know, we get Queen Valera.

1240
01:08:25.979 --> 01:08:29.880
You know, it's debateable how well that character works, but the whole script is a mess.

1241
01:08:29.939 --> 01:08:31.020
I think Nina Thomas.

1242
01:08:31.079 --> 01:08:36.300
Nina Thomas does an excellent job with some car material. how much she looks like Cody Manning in that story.

1243
01:08:36.420 --> 01:08:40.560
I think there might be something more going on I think she looks like a father.

1244
01:08:40.619 --> 01:08:42.720
I mean, she looks like her father and her mother.

1245
01:08:43.439 --> 01:08:47.460
Apparently, though, something I forgot to mention...

1246
01:08:47.460 --> 01:08:49.680
A weird, a weird genetic quirk.

1247
01:08:50.880 --> 01:08:55.260
Apparently, this is according to John Pertie's autobiography.

1248
01:08:55.319 --> 01:08:56.640
I am the doctor. forgot to mention this.

1249
01:08:56.699 --> 01:09:07.260
John Pert, we said, you know, in all my career, I've always been a very welcoming actor, very often with Katie, Katie might say to me, oh, John, I think maybe you should try this with that line and I'd be very glad to receive that.

1250
01:09:07.319 --> 01:09:08.579
That how you got to work as an actor.

1251
01:09:08.640 --> 01:09:13.199
He said, the one actor that I once said to, oh, you might consider trying this.

1252
01:09:13.260 --> 01:09:15.659
And they had a very bad reaction with Nina Thomas.

1253
01:09:15.720 --> 01:09:16.859
She apparently...

1254
01:09:16.859 --> 01:09:19.140
So you might try this with a lisp, do you?

1255
01:09:19.199 --> 01:09:21.300
No one on this show talks like that.

1256
01:09:21.359 --> 01:09:30.119
He says I don't know what it was, but, you know, given that he'd been working on Doctor Who so long, It wouldn't surprise me if it was something like, oh, if you stand like that, you know, you don't get a very good profile.

1257
01:09:30.180 --> 01:09:31.859
Apparently she didn't react very well.

1258
01:09:31.920 --> 01:09:33.539
I thought she gave a very good performance.

1259
01:09:33.659 --> 01:09:34.500
Oh, she's terrific.

1260
01:09:34.560 --> 01:09:36.000
I wonder what that, wonder what that line was.

1261
01:09:36.060 --> 01:09:39.840
And Rager, it's a very, she's a very small part.

1262
01:09:39.899 --> 01:09:42.600
She's one of the daughters of King Lear.

1263
01:09:42.659 --> 01:09:43.920
Reagan.

1264
01:09:43.979 --> 01:09:44.460
Yeah, yeah.

1265
01:09:44.579 --> 01:09:46.199
Gonorrhoeal.

1266
01:09:46.800 --> 01:09:50.640
She's the sister of Tua and Arak.

1267
01:09:50.699 --> 01:09:53.340
She's got a very small part, but I think she does very well in it.

1268
01:09:53.399 --> 01:09:57.960
And of course, you have the, all the, all the spiders are female voices.

1269
01:09:58.020 --> 01:09:59.039
They look so good.

1270
01:09:59.100 --> 01:10:05.399
And isn't it clever that they're women and now you've got all of that misogyny and the fear of female sexuality thrown into that as well.

1271
01:10:05.460 --> 01:10:07.979
You know, the original spider, not Boris.

1272
01:10:08.039 --> 01:10:09.060
I think it was called Max.

1273
01:10:09.119 --> 01:10:10.199
Boris is the one that walks.

1274
01:10:10.260 --> 01:10:12.840
But the Max Spider was so scary, Barry, let's play.

1275
01:10:12.899 --> 01:10:13.920
We can't have that on television.

1276
01:10:13.979 --> 01:10:15.479
We won't be able to get it through it.

1277
01:10:15.539 --> 01:10:19.739
But I think these ones are beautiful and they really have it, the way they would twitch along.

1278
01:10:19.800 --> 01:10:21.600
Yeah, is lovely when you were allowed.

1279
01:10:21.659 --> 01:10:23.460
The queen spider is like the rod one.

1280
01:10:23.520 --> 01:10:24.420
She has a rod.

1281
01:10:24.420 --> 01:10:27.359
And Q Mike Yates, yeah.

1282
01:10:27.420 --> 01:10:27.899
Yeah, yeah.

1283
01:10:27.960 --> 01:10:28.500
And she's great.

1284
01:10:28.560 --> 01:10:30.180
She's got articulated legs.

1285
01:10:30.239 --> 01:10:31.920
Yeah, she's the great one as well.

1286
01:10:31.979 --> 01:10:33.479
It's the same...

1287
01:10:33.539 --> 01:10:36.479
The others are kind of wobbling, kind of wobbling puppets.

1288
01:10:36.539 --> 01:10:38.039
I love that they have little slippery dips.

1289
01:10:38.100 --> 01:10:41.699
They get around their little city catacombs on these gorgeous little things.

1290
01:10:41.760 --> 01:10:46.920
I thought they just called one of those the guards over and just said, come over here and then they jumped on his back and they would go.

1291
01:10:47.159 --> 01:10:48.239
They've got cat runs or something.

1292
01:10:48.239 --> 01:10:49.260
Yeah, that's what I mean.

1293
01:10:49.319 --> 01:10:51.420
Did you know that little slippy dips everywhere?

1294
01:10:51.479 --> 01:10:53.819
At the beginning of episode four?

1295
01:10:53.819 --> 01:10:58.800
After the doctor's been knocked out in the queen spiders saying, you know, we must pretend to the city.

1296
01:10:58.859 --> 01:11:01.500
There is there is a metabolum.

1297
01:11:01.560 --> 01:11:09.119
There is a metabolian human behind her played by Ian Scones, and you can see his trouser leg moving because he's got his hand in his pocket.

1298
01:11:09.180 --> 01:11:10.439
He's operating her strings.

1299
01:11:10.500 --> 01:11:12.300
Oh, that's what he told them.

1300
01:11:12.359 --> 01:11:14.220
He's operating for strings.

1301
01:11:14.279 --> 01:11:16.920
His trousers are moving at about the knee.

1302
01:11:16.979 --> 01:11:18.779
If you check it out, he said, hello.

1303
01:11:18.840 --> 01:11:29.399
Actually, imagine England background performance are rather interesting because when the doctor arrives and kneels to speak to the most noble queen, there's a woman behind him, who sort of checks him out.

1304
01:11:29.460 --> 01:11:31.199
Oh, who's this new chat?

1305
01:11:31.260 --> 01:11:32.640
She's fabulous.

1306
01:11:33.359 --> 01:11:36.359
No one knows her name. pert in that too.

1307
01:11:36.420 --> 01:11:42.300
Because, you know, again, it's him not being obnoxious and, you know, not being oppositional.

1308
01:11:42.359 --> 01:11:47.520
He kind of goes, oh, all right, you know, okay, I'll kneel and he nails and he's got a smile on his face.

1309
01:11:47.579 --> 01:11:51.119
And he does the whole noble queen thing while smirking.

1310
01:11:51.180 --> 01:11:52.500
I really like it.

1311
01:11:52.560 --> 01:11:56.640
You know, like it's a sort of warm and lighthearted bit of performance.

1312
01:11:56.760 --> 01:12:00.060
Before we move on to the ending, Todd has another question.

1313
01:12:00.119 --> 01:12:05.340
Nathan, your favourite writer, Robert Sloman, is back.

1314
01:12:05.399 --> 01:12:08.340
Has he achieved gold?

1315
01:12:08.399 --> 01:12:10.260
Or is it fool's gold?

1316
01:12:10.319 --> 01:12:11.460
No.

1317
01:12:11.520 --> 01:12:12.899
Absolutely he has.

1318
01:12:12.960 --> 01:12:13.739
He's always been good.

1319
01:12:13.979 --> 01:12:16.319
It's other people mucking it up.

1320
01:12:16.380 --> 01:12:18.659
No, I think his basic story premises.

1321
01:12:18.720 --> 01:12:24.359
And we've seen how much in the last 2 seasons, those stories are getting mucked around by other people.

1322
01:12:24.420 --> 01:12:27.420
We're getting really back up to the 80s. present a story.

1323
01:12:27.479 --> 01:12:28.500
Look what happened to Mac Hulk.

1324
01:12:28.560 --> 01:12:30.600
That story is not very much of what he originally submitted.

1325
01:12:30.659 --> 01:12:32.159
I think Sloman's ideas are terrific.

1326
01:12:32.220 --> 01:12:39.779
But remember that Soman and Let's work very closely together in order to do these season finales and let's co-writes.

1327
01:12:39.840 --> 01:12:44.100
I think the demons is not good.

1328
01:12:44.159 --> 01:12:46.680
I think Time Monster is terrible.

1329
01:12:46.739 --> 01:12:53.399
Well, again, when I say not good, it's per twi not good, which means that I've got a lot of affection for it and that it's entertaining.

1330
01:12:53.460 --> 01:12:57.659
And as we've already explored, still not as bad as Monster Palatin.

1331
01:12:57.720 --> 01:12:58.020
No.

1332
01:12:58.079 --> 01:13:01.619
And so, but those, like, those 2 things are not very good.

1333
01:13:01.680 --> 01:13:07.079
I think Green Death is very good and very much more focussed, you know, and just a better story.

1334
01:13:07.140 --> 01:13:10.920
And I think Planet of the Spiders is a bit of a giant mess, really.

1335
01:13:10.979 --> 01:13:20.100
But it doesn't have quite the terrible pacing and delaying tactics and stuff that we got in something like the demons all the time on the street.

1336
01:13:20.159 --> 01:13:24.840
It's not as incompetent, I think, as the time monster, but I still don't think it's great.

1337
01:13:24.899 --> 01:13:29.279
I quite like the 1st episode is essentially the adventures of Sarah Jane Smith.

1338
01:13:29.399 --> 01:13:30.659
Yeah, I approve of that.

1339
01:13:30.720 --> 01:13:34.439
You know, she doesn't talk to the doctor until like halfway through episode two.

1340
01:13:35.159 --> 01:13:38.159
Yeah, you know, I think that's quite well done.

1341
01:13:38.220 --> 01:13:42.539
For me, it is a toss up between this or the Green Death being his best one.

1342
01:13:42.600 --> 01:13:46.619
But I think I do lean slightly more towards this.

1343
01:13:47.100 --> 01:13:50.039
Probably just because of the regeneration.

1344
01:13:50.100 --> 01:14:00.239
Both of the stories lead to a departure and they are structured to lead to that departure, but I find this a lot more effective because it's a lot more thematic.

1345
01:14:00.300 --> 01:14:06.840
It's not so much leading to the departure, as it's leading to the reason for the departure.

1346
01:14:06.899 --> 01:14:13.800
You know, when we get much, much later, David Tennant, in the end of time screaming, I could have done so much more, so much more.

1347
01:14:13.859 --> 01:14:15.899
You know, that's standard.

1348
01:14:16.199 --> 01:14:28.560
That, I mean, that subtext here, because the reason that the doctor needs to talk to his old mentor is because he knows what he has to do, but he doesn't want to do it.

1349
01:14:28.739 --> 01:14:37.199
But it's like if he tells me I need to go face my fear, then I need to go face my fear, but otherwise I'm, you know, I am scared.

1350
01:14:37.260 --> 01:14:42.359
I'm scared of dying, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to be scared of.

1351
01:14:42.420 --> 01:14:53.100
And he's not accustomed to feeling fear because he's never been in a situation this dire before, but as he says at the end, it was more important to face my fear than to go on living.

1352
01:14:53.159 --> 01:14:59.159
And earlier on in the season, we have had that line of, I'll do that when the only alternative to living is dying.

1353
01:14:59.460 --> 01:15:02.279
And he takes the alternative in this case.

1354
01:15:03.119 --> 01:15:06.239
It's that final terrible line.

1355
01:15:06.300 --> 01:15:07.800
It is a short...

1356
01:15:08.819 --> 01:15:20.159
That final scene where he stumbles out of the TARDIS and falls to the ground and stuff and we get the tear Sarah Jane thing, which was actually rehearsed in Monster Pelleton.

1357
01:15:20.220 --> 01:15:22.979
I can actually get some mentioned there.

1358
01:15:23.039 --> 01:15:26.039
Well, there's life, there's hope before, I think, as well.

1359
01:15:26.100 --> 01:15:26.760
Yeah.

1360
01:15:26.760 --> 01:15:34.619
And to see the doctor, like he doesn't get to go out on a witty line or stay warm.

1361
01:15:34.680 --> 01:15:35.579
Stay warm.

1362
01:15:35.640 --> 01:15:36.899
Stop. making me giddy.

1363
01:15:36.960 --> 01:15:54.420
You know, like he, he, his eyes are virtually closed, you know, like it's not, you know, a big showboating per week performance at the very end. is very small and the scene is mostly Choji or Campo or both or neither.

1364
01:15:54.479 --> 01:15:56.159
And Sarah and the brigadier.

1365
01:15:56.279 --> 01:16:00.239
So, yeah, like it is a fairly downbeat ending, isn't it?

1366
01:16:00.359 --> 01:16:03.840
It is, but at the same time, it's really, really lovely.

1367
01:16:03.840 --> 01:16:12.300
And that, of course, one of the big criticisms or praises that people lay at Poey's feat is that he's so paternal and patrician.

1368
01:16:12.300 --> 01:16:19.380
And so, you know, he's dead, but his final thoughts are, don't be upset, Sarah.

1369
01:16:19.439 --> 01:16:19.979
Yeah.

1370
01:16:19.979 --> 01:16:23.279
Yeah, I like that.

1371
01:16:23.340 --> 01:16:24.960
Sorry I've just started crying.

1372
01:16:25.079 --> 01:16:25.739
Oh.

1373
01:16:25.739 --> 01:16:28.439
Well, they're all dead now.

1374
01:16:28.500 --> 01:16:30.119
Yeah, everyone.

1375
01:16:30.180 --> 01:16:31.680
All gone.

1376
01:16:31.739 --> 01:16:33.180
Except Tom.

1377
01:16:33.300 --> 01:16:34.560
He's still with us.

1378
01:16:34.619 --> 01:16:40.739
I get upset when companions leave, but I don't get upset when the doctor changes.

1379
01:16:40.800 --> 01:16:42.720
No, I don't either. isn't that interesting?

1380
01:16:42.960 --> 01:16:44.880
I get upset with both.

1381
01:16:44.939 --> 01:16:46.079
Yeah.

1382
01:16:46.079 --> 01:16:46.619
Yeah.

1383
01:16:46.680 --> 01:16:50.220
The virtue one is so, like, it is just that rollback and mix.

1384
01:16:50.279 --> 01:16:56.340
It's not, you know, standing in the centre of the TARDIS with golden glowy stuff pouring out of you and setting...

1385
01:16:56.399 --> 01:17:08.399
It is just literally just like a 2nd and they've pertweed, baker's hair for that set, you know, so and rather than like get him in the same position, they gave him a duplicate costume and just filmed him on another part of the set.

1386
01:17:08.520 --> 01:17:09.180
Oh, really?

1387
01:17:09.479 --> 01:17:11.159
And you can tell because the floor changed.

1388
01:17:11.220 --> 01:17:13.439
Oh, look at it.

1389
01:17:13.500 --> 01:17:19.800
I think I've seen that being shot where the, the, like the director is, does footage of that exists?

1390
01:17:19.859 --> 01:17:22.199
I don't think so, but I could be wrong. could be wrong.

1391
01:17:22.500 --> 01:17:26.340
Well, they were filming robot at the same time.

1392
01:17:26.340 --> 01:17:27.239
Yeah, yeah.

1393
01:17:27.300 --> 01:17:29.159
Yeah, yeah, it's weirdly.

1394
01:17:29.220 --> 01:17:34.319
It's so strange because a robot, of course, was then filmed as part of the same production block.

1395
01:17:34.380 --> 01:17:41.819
But Pertwee's regeneration was recorded in the 1st of 3 studio blocks.

1396
01:17:41.880 --> 01:17:43.319
It wasn't the last scene he recorded.

1397
01:17:43.380 --> 01:17:44.760
Probably a good idea, isn't it?

1398
01:17:44.880 --> 01:17:53.819
Yeah, but I just think, you know, given how proud he was of the role, imagine how hard that was for him to then go back for another 3 weeks of work 4 weeks ago.

1399
01:17:53.880 --> 01:17:54.659
He's a professional.

1400
01:17:54.720 --> 01:17:55.739
I know he's a professional.

1401
01:17:55.800 --> 01:17:56.579
I don't think he's seeing it.

1402
01:17:56.640 --> 01:18:01.500
Look, he did also say he turned down several major roles because he was still in Doctor Who.

1403
01:18:01.560 --> 01:18:05.819
Well, you know, he hosted who done it. which is terrific and it's on YouTube.

1404
01:18:05.880 --> 01:18:07.500
It's actually finally out on DVD.

1405
01:18:07.560 --> 01:18:09.239
That might be one of my picks.

1406
01:18:09.300 --> 01:18:11.760
Yeah, but I just think he's amazing in that sense.

1407
01:18:11.819 --> 01:18:20.699
But also, Liz Slaton, between, I think, Studio Block 2 and Studio Block 3 recorded the exterior stuff for a robot.

1408
01:18:20.760 --> 01:18:25.680
She was working on both productions at the same time, but they were very clever.

1409
01:18:25.739 --> 01:18:27.359
They restricted Nick to the 1st block.

1410
01:18:27.420 --> 01:18:28.800
So he wouldn't be.

1411
01:18:28.859 --> 01:18:31.020
So it was just, sorry, Liz, you're going to have to work on both.

1412
01:18:31.079 --> 01:18:32.460
And she said, oh, no, it's fine.

1413
01:18:32.520 --> 01:18:35.760
You know, it means she gets like 7 frocks into stories.

1414
01:18:35.819 --> 01:18:40.739
She doesn't work with Tom in that block, which I don't believe so, no.

1415
01:18:40.800 --> 01:18:43.140
Something I forgot to mention earlier.

1416
01:18:43.199 --> 01:18:46.680
That stripy outfit that Sarah wears, the really iconic one.

1417
01:18:46.739 --> 01:18:50.279
My friend Daniel has tracked down a rep... sorry, not a replica.

1418
01:18:50.640 --> 01:18:54.899
It's not the one she wore, but it's the one that was available at the same time.

1419
01:18:54.960 --> 01:18:59.699
So I will ask him to give us a picture of that. him wearing it.

1420
01:18:59.760 --> 01:19:02.460
No, it's too precious because he's a costume.

1421
01:19:03.180 --> 01:19:04.260
He's a costume historian.

1422
01:19:04.260 --> 01:19:05.640
He's a costume and clothing historian.

1423
01:19:05.640 --> 01:19:06.539
Yeah.

1424
01:19:06.600 --> 01:19:07.680
He's a curator of these things.

1425
01:19:07.739 --> 01:19:09.300
Okay, he's got one of those.

1426
01:19:09.359 --> 01:19:10.859
It wasn't Bieber, but it was up there.

1427
01:19:10.920 --> 01:19:13.439
It was another line that was in competition with Bieber.

1428
01:19:13.500 --> 01:19:22.500
So, again, a lot of Katie's stuff was actually off the peg, Beaver stuff, and this was this top is particularly memorable because it's got the big spider on it.

1429
01:19:22.560 --> 01:19:25.260
Yeah, it's just a lovely piece of iconic seratom.

1430
01:19:25.319 --> 01:19:27.840
That and the Andy Paddy pyjamas for me is Sarah Jane Smith.

1431
01:19:27.899 --> 01:19:28.920
Terrific.

1432
01:19:28.979 --> 01:19:31.680
You know, we've gone all maudlin.

1433
01:19:31.739 --> 01:19:35.220
And sort of gray and dusk is and cool as the story is.

1434
01:19:35.279 --> 01:19:36.300
It's a lovely story.

1435
01:19:36.359 --> 01:19:38.399
I would, you're only going to watch one of this season.

1436
01:19:38.460 --> 01:19:39.060
It would be this one.

1437
01:19:39.119 --> 01:19:40.800
Time Warrior.

1438
01:19:40.920 --> 01:19:41.819
Oh yeah, both.

1439
01:19:41.880 --> 01:19:42.479
Yeah.

1440
01:19:42.479 --> 01:19:43.920
If you're only going to watch one.

1441
01:19:43.979 --> 01:19:45.779
Should be the time, Warrior.

1442
01:19:45.840 --> 01:19:48.000
Death to the Daleks and Planet of the Spiders.

1443
01:19:48.359 --> 01:19:51.060
All at once. can be done.

1444
01:19:51.119 --> 01:19:57.119
If we want to end not on a maudlin note, but an honour what the actual hell note, let's do that.

1445
01:19:57.180 --> 01:20:03.060
Okay, so we're moving into the Jenny Laird award now and we have a bit of a quandary.

1446
01:20:03.119 --> 01:20:04.500
Do we give it to the lady herself?

1447
01:20:04.560 --> 01:20:06.899
Well, it's individual choice, isn't it?

1448
01:20:06.960 --> 01:20:08.640
Richard, would you like to go first?

1449
01:20:08.699 --> 01:20:09.779
Well, I like to start first.

1450
01:20:09.840 --> 01:20:12.479
It's generally like as it's a puzzling creative choice.

1451
01:20:12.539 --> 01:20:15.720
And again, I would like to give it to the loading question, but she's just not good enough.

1452
01:20:15.779 --> 01:20:24.479
So, um, it actually goes to the entire notion of rebooting and remaking because it's not a revisitation of the monster of Peladon.

1453
01:20:24.539 --> 01:20:26.039
I just see no reason why they did that story.

1454
01:20:26.520 --> 01:20:36.359
I would have been very happy with a couple of extra episodes for time, time, um, Warrior, Time Monster Warrior. should have been, you know, or the invasion of the potato head people.

1455
01:20:36.420 --> 01:20:45.119
Should have been 6 episodes because it would have had lots of lovely elongated scenes with the Duke of Wessex and Professor Rubish is terrific and more of the scientists.

1456
01:20:45.239 --> 01:20:49.680
I would have been very happy with a lot more of the cutting and pasting and touing and throwing in that.

1457
01:20:49.739 --> 01:20:54.300
And we could have even had a little bit more of, not spiders, but...

1458
01:20:54.300 --> 01:20:55.619
Oh, I don't know.

1459
01:20:55.619 --> 01:20:56.880
Bring it up to 10 episodes.

1460
01:20:56.939 --> 01:20:58.079
We could have gone to Floran.

1461
01:20:58.140 --> 01:21:01.619
We got it for just an episode of Liz, Liz in that, but he's baking.

1462
01:21:01.680 --> 01:21:03.720
Yeah, just, you know, not sinking in the water.

1463
01:21:03.779 --> 01:21:07.020
That's the one in a bath of Epsom salts.

1464
01:21:07.079 --> 01:21:07.319
Yeah.

1465
01:21:07.380 --> 01:21:08.279
That's it.

1466
01:21:08.460 --> 01:21:10.979
Six episodes I can do without.

1467
01:21:11.039 --> 01:21:13.380
Yeah, it is terrible.

1468
01:21:13.439 --> 01:21:19.260
I think my Jenny Led Award has to go to the dinosaurs, but not for the reason you might think.

1469
01:21:19.680 --> 01:21:26.340
Last season we saw the 1st time the Doctor Who filmed things out of order in order to accommodate Patrick Trouton's schedule.

1470
01:21:27.600 --> 01:21:34.920
I'm sure someone must have said to Barry, look, if you give us another month, we can give you the stop motion dinosaurs you want.

1471
01:21:34.979 --> 01:21:37.020
Invasion of the dinosaurs was up first.

1472
01:21:37.079 --> 01:21:40.680
It could only have benefitted from more pre-production.

1473
01:21:40.739 --> 01:21:49.560
Something like death to the Daleks, where they already had the Dalek props, you know, they were filming on location and a quarry, that could have been brought forward. was a tricky shoot, though.

1474
01:21:49.619 --> 01:21:52.319
Monster of Peladin had so much already in stock.

1475
01:21:52.380 --> 01:21:53.399
That could have been done.

1476
01:21:53.520 --> 01:21:54.479
That should have been the 1st one, yeah.

1477
01:21:54.539 --> 01:22:00.840
So yeah, I don't understand why I know Barry has often said, oh, I wish the dinosaurs have been better.

1478
01:22:00.899 --> 01:22:04.680
Well, yeah, I don't understand why they weren't either.

1479
01:22:04.739 --> 01:22:05.520
Barry, really?

1480
01:22:05.579 --> 01:22:06.060
I don't.

1481
01:22:07.020 --> 01:22:09.300
I want give it to Jenny.

1482
01:22:09.479 --> 01:22:11.220
I feel bad.

1483
01:22:11.279 --> 01:22:14.220
I've been hanging out for 11 seasons.

1484
01:22:14.460 --> 01:22:16.979
Jenny gets my Jenny Laird award, bless her.

1485
01:22:17.460 --> 01:22:19.680
Pics of the month, gentlemen.

1486
01:22:19.739 --> 01:22:23.520
Well, we mentioned Doctor Who podcast in our last episode.

1487
01:22:23.579 --> 01:22:26.279
It's called Trust Your Doctor.

1488
01:22:26.340 --> 01:22:32.159
And in it, 2 young men who, I think, live in California, are watching their way through Doctor Who.

1489
01:22:32.220 --> 01:22:35.159
They're taking a flight through entirety, much as we have been.

1490
01:22:35.220 --> 01:22:38.039
They're up to 66 episodes, I think.

1491
01:22:38.100 --> 01:22:47.220
Their most recent episode is about the time monster, so they do one story per episode, which is a crazy way of going.

1492
01:22:47.279 --> 01:22:48.359
No, you don't understand why.

1493
01:22:48.359 --> 01:22:49.140
Never considered doing that.

1494
01:22:49.199 --> 01:22:51.960
And they hated the massacre.

1495
01:22:52.260 --> 01:22:54.539
Well, why would you bother listening?

1496
01:22:54.600 --> 01:22:56.640
They're lovely.

1497
01:22:56.699 --> 01:23:10.079
And so I think by now, and we don't know what their production schedule is exactly, but Brendan and I will have guested on an episode of theirs, in which we discuss, we'll discuss, we'll have discussed.

1498
01:23:10.140 --> 01:23:14.520
We'll have been going to have discussed last of the Gadarene by Mark Gators.

1499
01:23:14.579 --> 01:23:16.380
So stick it in your podcast.

1500
01:23:16.439 --> 01:23:33.960
You're not allowed to listen to that instead of flight through entirety, obviously, but you may supplement your phonetic devotion to flight through entirety with listening to Kian and Dylan on Trust Your Doctor and their website is at decorativevegetable.com.

1501
01:23:34.020 --> 01:23:35.640
Oh, that's a line, isn't it?

1502
01:23:36.539 --> 01:23:38.939
I think my pick.

1503
01:23:39.000 --> 01:23:40.680
And this is going to be a slightly surprising one.

1504
01:23:40.800 --> 01:23:45.600
But my pick is for the 1990s...

1505
01:23:45.600 --> 01:23:50.460
John Pertley, BBC radio stories.

1506
01:23:50.520 --> 01:23:50.939
Really?

1507
01:23:50.939 --> 01:23:53.279
Paradise of Death and the Ghost of En Space.

1508
01:23:53.340 --> 01:23:53.699
You know what?

1509
01:23:53.819 --> 01:23:57.720
They're both seriously flawed, but it's John Pertwee.

1510
01:23:57.779 --> 01:24:03.420
Elizabeth Slayton, Nick Courtney, with Barry Letts writing, Peter Miles turns up, Stephen Thorne turns up.

1511
01:24:03.479 --> 01:24:07.500
You've got Jeremy Fitzolliver, who's a new character created just for them.

1512
01:24:07.979 --> 01:24:13.859
As I say, they are they are quite flawed, but they are still enjoyable.

1513
01:24:13.920 --> 01:24:14.460
And you know what?

1514
01:24:14.520 --> 01:24:17.039
Without them, I don't think we would have had big finish.

1515
01:24:17.399 --> 01:24:33.899
And also, the people who worked on them, included Dirk Maggs, who went on to make the death of Superman as a radio play and the Dirk Gently radio series as well as the tertiary quadrinary and quintessential phases of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

1516
01:24:33.960 --> 01:24:34.739
I quite like them too.

1517
01:24:34.800 --> 01:24:35.399
Yeah.

1518
01:24:35.460 --> 01:24:40.619
And so these 2 adventures, you will be able to find them on iTunes, they are on there.

1519
01:24:40.680 --> 01:24:42.359
We will include a link on the website.

1520
01:24:42.479 --> 01:24:45.960
They're not the best thing, but they're the last...

1521
01:24:45.960 --> 01:24:52.439
They're the last time John Pertley played the doctor before he passed away.

1522
01:24:52.500 --> 01:24:55.619
And, you know what, he's still bloody great in them.

1523
01:24:55.859 --> 01:25:03.420
Liz is great, and Nicholas Courtney is given the wonderful line of, of course, I'm sure, since when did I paint my toenails pink.

1524
01:25:05.579 --> 01:25:08.760
Brendan's so nice, isn't he, Richard?

1525
01:25:08.880 --> 01:25:13.859
You know, he says flawed where I'd be saying, you know...

1526
01:25:13.920 --> 01:25:19.260
Tire, disastrous, plangently awful, you know.

1527
01:25:19.560 --> 01:25:21.180
Exorable.

1528
01:25:21.239 --> 01:25:22.079
You're lovely.

1529
01:25:22.739 --> 01:25:24.960
Never change, Wendy.

1530
01:25:26.159 --> 01:25:27.960
Do I have a go?

1531
01:25:28.020 --> 01:25:29.279
kick of the week.

1532
01:25:29.279 --> 01:25:31.319
Well, I sort of haven't thrown in a few weeks, don't they?

1533
01:25:31.380 --> 01:25:39.000
I've been watching, like, I like to watch some things that are around at the same time when we're watching Doctor Who so you get a flavour of what people are actually viewing.

1534
01:25:39.000 --> 01:25:42.899
And you can really get into their mindset and just have mad the entire world was.

1535
01:25:42.960 --> 01:25:48.119
I've been watching Jason King starring our very own Peter Wingard, whom we own.

1536
01:25:48.180 --> 01:25:50.760
It's got an impressive moustache, doesn't it?

1537
01:25:50.819 --> 01:25:53.880
Most impressive moustache that gets more and more baroque as the series goes on.

1538
01:25:53.939 --> 01:25:54.899
I'm going to have a look at that.

1539
01:25:54.960 --> 01:25:57.000
It, Laurie Johnson's music from the Avengers.

1540
01:25:57.060 --> 01:26:00.119
It's got our very own Dennis Spooner, a script editor.

1541
01:26:00.180 --> 01:26:01.140
It funny?

1542
01:26:01.199 --> 01:26:03.119
It's actually...

1543
01:26:03.239 --> 01:26:09.659
Oh, look, okay, the 1st time I saw it in 2005 when this came out, I thought, oh, God, this is terrible and I put it away. watched it again.

1544
01:26:09.720 --> 01:26:19.859
But now I'm watching it, I'm being slightly older, and yes, it is, but it's so dour, and it's a really saturnine kind of humour.

1545
01:26:19.920 --> 01:26:20.819
It's much darker.

1546
01:26:20.880 --> 01:26:23.760
It's almost like a Weimar production.

1547
01:26:23.939 --> 01:26:26.340
But he's very pert wheat.

1548
01:26:26.399 --> 01:26:31.920
And the character or the received character is very much the same sort of character the doctor's playing.

1549
01:26:31.979 --> 01:26:50.939
It's sort of really conscious and drinking cloud. not just the look, it's just the way that he removes himself ever so slightly from what's going on around him and just observes and then we'll make a comment and pertly has that very much, you know, that sang foi. that very much kind of, as I said, you were saying, the romantic lead of older times.

1550
01:26:51.000 --> 01:26:52.260
Yeah, it's really worth watching.

1551
01:26:52.319 --> 01:26:54.420
It is very funny, but don't expect birdie laughs.

1552
01:26:54.479 --> 01:26:56.340
It's kind of a chortle at the back of your throat.

1553
01:26:56.340 --> 01:26:58.199
And it's so over the top.

1554
01:26:58.920 --> 01:27:00.779
So yeah.

1555
01:27:00.840 --> 01:27:04.500
Also, a lot of Doctor Who girls turn up in it, so worth looking at.

1556
01:27:19.560 --> 01:27:22.439
Well, that, uh, that is all time we have.

1557
01:27:22.500 --> 01:27:23.640
We are about to head off.

1558
01:27:23.699 --> 01:27:38.579
We will be back in two weeks with a retrospective looking at the whole of the Pertwi era, which is why we didn't discuss much at the end there about what we think the impact is of Pertwi, because all 4 of us, we'll be back in a fortnight to discuss that.

1559
01:27:38.699 --> 01:27:40.079
And then.

1560
01:27:40.140 --> 01:27:41.279
This will be called the Blinovich.

1561
01:27:41.340 --> 01:27:44.579
You were getting a bit upset too. reference to you, we was.

1562
01:27:44.640 --> 01:27:45.420
We had to move on.

1563
01:27:45.479 --> 01:27:55.020
But, you know, with all 4 of us in the room, I'm sure there'll be some kind of Blunovician time bubbly effect if we voiced Todd, Richard, that feeling.

1564
01:27:55.079 --> 01:27:56.819
No, that is the rule.

1565
01:27:57.840 --> 01:28:01.859
And a very exciting announcement now.

1566
01:28:03.420 --> 01:28:16.619
First of all, from June 14th, when that retrospective episode goes out, we will actually be moving to publishing episodes weekly.

1567
01:28:16.680 --> 01:28:17.640
Who's ever thought of that?

1568
01:28:18.539 --> 01:28:25.380
Not only that, but we've had the entirely original idea that isn't related to trust your doctor at all.

1569
01:28:25.439 --> 01:28:28.380
We're actually going to be covering just one story per week.

1570
01:28:28.920 --> 01:28:32.220
We did actually discuss this before though, didn't we?

1571
01:28:32.279 --> 01:28:33.840
Oh, don't say that.

1572
01:28:34.920 --> 01:28:40.439
I want to trust your doctor people to get really cross at us for sealing in our idea.

1573
01:28:40.500 --> 01:28:44.579
That was synced in from further in the past, yeah.

1574
01:28:45.119 --> 01:28:50.760
Yes, it's something we've been thinking about doing for a few months since we moved to fortnightly.

1575
01:28:50.819 --> 01:28:57.659
So yeah, we'll be in your podcast speed weekly talking about individual stories each week.

1576
01:28:57.720 --> 01:29:05.640
We also have another project on the horizon, which I should hopefully materialise in June or July, more details on that later.

1577
01:29:05.699 --> 01:29:13.619
And gentlemen, do you know what it was a few days ago on the 26th of May.

1578
01:29:14.699 --> 01:29:16.680
Um.

1579
01:29:16.800 --> 01:29:19.140
I want to say...

1580
01:29:19.140 --> 01:29:23.640
I want to say Katie Manning's 45th birthday.

1581
01:29:24.720 --> 01:29:33.899
Uh, well, it may have been Katie Manning's 46th birthday, but the 26th of May, 2014 was when we released episode 0, a little queer.

1582
01:29:33.960 --> 01:29:35.039
Gentlemen.

1583
01:29:35.100 --> 01:29:36.720
Happy 1st anniversary.

1584
01:29:36.899 --> 01:29:38.640
All right.

1585
01:29:38.699 --> 01:29:44.760
And just for that, as we can see here, I've made you some lovely alien quarry samples.

1586
01:29:44.819 --> 01:29:49.800
The recipe for which will be on the website. hurrah.

1587
01:29:49.859 --> 01:30:05.279
So until we see you again in 2 weeks, don't forget to check out our website, flight through entirety.com, you can also find us on Facebook by searching for flight through entirety, on Twitter, by looking for FTE podcast, and on iTunes for searching for flight through entirety as well.

1588
01:30:05.340 --> 01:30:07.500
Two more reviews and we actually get a rating.

1589
01:30:07.560 --> 01:30:09.300
So, if you want to review us.

1590
01:30:09.359 --> 01:30:11.579
I'm not being I'm being...

1591
01:30:11.640 --> 01:30:12.539
Yeah, reviewers.

1592
01:30:12.600 --> 01:30:14.100
For God's sake, say something lovely.

1593
01:30:14.220 --> 01:30:15.539
Say something nice.

1594
01:30:15.600 --> 01:30:16.260
Nice.

1595
01:30:16.260 --> 01:30:18.840
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1596
01:30:18.899 --> 01:30:19.560
Good night.

1597
01:30:19.619 --> 01:30:20.760
That is ache.

1598
01:30:23.819 --> 01:30:28.800
You've been listening to Flat your entirety, Aiken Bottomley, Brennan Downs, and Richard Stone.

1599
01:30:28.859 --> 01:30:35.880
This episode, Evil Buddhists, is recorded on Sunday, May the 3rd, the next episode will be released on June 14th.

1600
01:30:35.939 --> 01:30:43.319
The old self must die, and the new family will discover their inexpressible dream, but the ministry of Paladin never existed.

1601
01:30:50.640 --> 01:30:53.399
A dandy and a clown.

1602
01:30:53.460 --> 01:30:55.079
Is that what I've become?