WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 14:44:18

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Hello and welcome back to Flight Who Entirety, the only Doctor Who

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podcast that knows that when there's sandwiches, there's hope.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd.

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Lovely lace doily for this performance with a little bit of

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watercress on the side.

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Hello, everyone.

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We're here today to pay tribute to the entire pertwi era, which is

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why all 4 of us have gathered, which is usually forbidden by the

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Blinabich limitation effect.

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And because it's, we do have a spread in front of us, we have BLTs

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so we've got our sandwiches, we have banana muffins kindly

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provided by Calvin, and we have some scones which Richard has made

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as well.

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High protein scones, yeah.

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High protein scones, yeah.

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Oh, so without any further ado, we're going to raise a quick glass

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to John Purby, of this lovely sardonic vaudividello.

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Yes, but not cynical, but not cynical.

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One me up, not me.

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Just the one knee up.

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Yeah, just the one knee up for third week.

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And John.

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Todd, I'm gonna hand off to you.

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Thanks Brendan.

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Well, it's, of course, time for the pertry retrospective.

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So here's my 1st question.

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I love it when he does this.

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Like, I just go straight into a sort of...

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Oh, I should mention that I am in honour of what's coming next

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time wearing my Tom Baker scarf.

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One size fits all, apparently according to the little tank here.

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I have a giant spider on my back.

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And Brendan and I are wearing freely fronted knickers.

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Yes.

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Well, it goes nicely with my Joe Grant in Day of the Dalek shirt.

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Will he ever stop talking about it?

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I've never stopped wearing it.

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Coming into this era again.

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What was your current opinion of John?

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of the era and had that changed since you were a kid.

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So when you say the current era, what you thought of the pertwee

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era, just before you started rewatching it this time round?

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I wasn't, I don't think I was a big fan and I think the main

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reason is I don't think I was a big fan of Pertwiz, the doctor.

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But with that in mind, I think we've used the phrase comfort food

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before a whole bunch of times.

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If, you know, I had a few hours to kill and had to do the ironing

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or something like that, then the go to thing would be a perchway

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story because they're not very demanding, but they are, you know

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diverting and entertaining and there are fun things about all of

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them, even the terrible ones are kind of good.

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But I have to say that I wasn't really looking forward to it.

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When you watched him as a child.

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Had you enjoyed it then?

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Yeah, he was my 1st doctor.

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I've said this before, and the 1st thing that I ever saw was Death

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to the Daleks, and, you know, it's a superbly great 1st episode

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isn't it?

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So that helped.

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But, you know, the way that they showed it in the 70s, um, When

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Rich and I were the only ones of the panel alive.

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Um, they would just sort of rotate Pertwee and Baker and I enjoyed

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all of it, I think, equally at the time.

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I really liked the juxtaposition too.

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I really liked that Katie would show up one week and then next

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month it'd be a couple of months later it'd be news slaters.

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And or the mysterious Carrie John, who only ever did one story as

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far as we...

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You do forget that I actually was alive also.

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No, I don't look like that.

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You look fantastic.

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But, you know, I would agree with you.

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Like, as a kid, I remember we would have conversations at primary

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school about who was a better doctor?

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Was it?

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John, was it Tom?

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Was it Joe, was it Sarah?

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You know, and I remember, like, you know, watching like the 3

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doctors and the Green Gate and kind of the Spies, and these were

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classic stories.

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So it was a kid.

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You know, I had, because of the repeats that we got.

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I had this view of how good everything was and how wonderful it

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all was.

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And that did change for me after I got into fandom, and I sort of

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I feel that I brought him to the perceived fan wisdom, and I'm

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using inverted quotes here in the 1990s.

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Yeah.

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Of, of what the pertury Europe became.

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And I do think there is a point where television dates, and I

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certainly think in my viewing of things, the poetry year are

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dated.

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And when I watched a number of shows back, I was just, oh my

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goodness, like it was just, and I just bought into this sort of

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mentality that it wasn't as good as what I thought it was.

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You see, they, I mean, they changed the premise pretty

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substantially, uh, by having the doctor exile to earth.

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But it's not as substantial as you, as you think, because they do

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a couple of stories apart from season seven.

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Oh, yeah, apart from season 7, they do a couple of stories, uh, you

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know, on alien planets.

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A year.

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So we're not just sort of confined to Earth.

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And in fact, there's lots of stuff about the Earth premise that

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actually really work, which is why I think Russell takes it back

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there at the beginning of the reboot.

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You've got a bigger cast, and that's nice.

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You've got people to be invested in.

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And it only brings it back home every few episodes.

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I don't know if Russell was actually taking on one of Lett's notes

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because, you know, when Barry Letts took over from Derek Shoe, and

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one of the things he said he wanted to do was have 2 on, 3 off.

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Hello?

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No, he met one on earth, 3 up there, one back here.

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So, and kind of the way you sandwiched to season 11 when you just

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get the brigadier, you getting popping up in the middle, but

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really it's a, you know, you get unit at the beginning, you know

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the unit, a unit sandwich filling in the middle.

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Yeah, it was pretty much 9, 10, 11, are all like that, aren't

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they?

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And so it is less earthbound than you think.

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But they're the exegencies of it.

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Well, how did you feel actually about the show itself or the Putwi

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Europe?

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Because we've come from a generation where in the 90s, you

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suddenly had videos available, and so they seem to all come at

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once.

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And the whole thing of venerating John Burtley, changed really

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considerably to some pretty, you know, it ranged in temperature

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that you had DWB and Gary Lee, Gary Levy.

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So it's some appalling things about Pooh.

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He said appalling things about everything, really, didn't he?

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I guess that was part of the fun, that fandom back then.

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But yeah, when Pertwee was reevaluated, Pertwee's era, he really

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didn't come up well.

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And then when we were younger, that was that was kind of, you know

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we loved him in the 70s and 80s and then there was this whole

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period of time, which was sad because it was just about the time

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you know, he died in 96 and the last 5 years he'd been around.

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It was copying a lot of flex.

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I think it was just that memory cheats.

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And when you watch them, there's so much repetition.

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We've said that, haven't we, in the era, so much repetition of

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formula each, and some of those mid-seasons, get a bit plotting

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really.

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And it is that thing too, where we were terribly familiar with the

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novelisations.

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Yeah.

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And they were often vastly superior to the televised stories.

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But I actually think the big floor, like I just don't think that

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per tweet is as entertaining to watch as the actors on either

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side.

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As the book.

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Yeah, the bookings.

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Is that your biggest revelation from watching?

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My actual biggest revelation from watching this time?

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Is that it's better than I expected it to be?

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It is better than I expected him to be?

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And I agree.

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And there are great things about the era.

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There's Katie for all of his overuse.

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There's Roger Delgado, who's spectacular, you know, the unit

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family.

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That's a really nice thing.

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You know, like I like Doctor Who.

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Again, the reason that I like, you know, early Russell T. Davis

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stuff is that there's a bigger semi-regular cast than just 2

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people.

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You know, the show is too lonely and can't create a coherent

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world.

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If it's just 2 people off, somewhere completely different, you

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know, encountering people they've never met before.

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And so there never seem to be a through line earlier.

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But here there's a kind of world and, you know, like it's not

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expertly created.

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It's not subtle or anything like that.

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But it's, it's like home.

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It's nice, you know?

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And Pertry, who does start off obnoxious, actually does become

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quite loveable and has a bit of a sense of humour about himself

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and you certainly see him smiling much more often as he goes on

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and delivering lines with a smile.

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Think about Planet of the Spiders where he bows down to the noble

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queen and smiles and says, oh, greetings almost, noble queen.

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It's a very sardonic smile.

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Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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But let's not forget, we're calling him pert, we shouldn't really

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be saying the doctor because we've all noted pertly.

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John Pertley didn't like to vary from his lines, one iota.

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He was a radio. very carefully planned.

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He was a radio actor and he really, he hadn't done much of the

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rep.

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He was really uncomfortable with improvisation. whereas most of

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the people he was working with.

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And you've seen you've all covered 3 doctors.

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That's how they did it.

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You know, he was really uncomfortable working with Pat.

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He liked his comfort zone very well defined.

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So when you were looking at the 3rd doctor's prickliness in that

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1st season, that's not John Perkley, that's the script.

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Also, I think something which pert we really brings out in his

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performance, which isn't really in the text until towards the end

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is the loneliness of the character and the isolation of the

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character.

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You certainly get that in 11 after Joe lives, yeah.

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But also in 7 and 8, when he is still a bit prickly, especially

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say in Mind of Evil, when no one can understand his depth of

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experience, he sort of withdraws his opinion, not because he's

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been chastised, but simply because he understands that no one else

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can possibly relate to him.

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And it actually makes him sort of sort of sullen.

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It's something that would very much become a trademark of David

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Tennant's character when everyone goes on about him being the

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lonely god and this and that the other.

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This is very much subtext.

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And of course, John Pertwee's perception of the character was that

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he was several 1000 years old, which is what sneaks into lines

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such as in the Mind of Evil, where he says, I've been a scientist

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for several 1000 and cuts himself off.

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And yeah, I mean, the only doctors I've really heard talk about

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the loneliness of the character are him and Sylvester McCoy, the

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only classic doctors, I should say.

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And that is something I think he plays really well.

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I think sort of his middle seasons when he's really comfortable

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with Katie Manning. doesn't come out so much.

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But yeah, then again, when Katie's gone.

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Even though the doctor and Sarah do bond, that feeling of

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loneliness never quite...

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A slight distance there, isn't it?

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It's an interesting book into Tom's final years.

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Season 18, doctor is quite similar to a season 11 doctor.

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He just didn't get...

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Yeah, and and kind of, although, although pertway's doctor

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actually softened.

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And maybe that's why I liked him as a boy because I was more

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familiar with his tail ends.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I really, really like him in season 11.

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That's something that's one of my biggest revelations is the fact

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that I was used to pigeonhole things like season 7 and then the

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you know, the 3 years with Katie and then, obviously, Sarah at the

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end, like very distinct.

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But, but now I kind of think there's, there's early pertway, which

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which goes up to the cause of axis, where, where the character is

247
00:11:39.539 --> 00:11:42.059
very prickly, and then suddenly there's a dramatic change in

248
00:11:42.059 --> 00:11:45.299
colony and space, where it's sort of mid pertway, where there's a

249
00:11:45.299 --> 00:11:48.000
softening, and that sort of runs through the, to the time monster

250
00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:50.759
and then there's another definite change with the 3 doctors

251
00:11:50.759 --> 00:11:54.539
onwards, where he's much more relaxed and much more, otherwise, so

252
00:11:54.539 --> 00:11:58.440
you know, that's something for me, that, you know, I can see that

253
00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:01.139
sort of layer to, to, to the way things play it out.

254
00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:05.820
And funnily enough, I actually watched season 7 last, which I

255
00:12:05.820 --> 00:12:08.820
actually really like doing to see like the difference between the

256
00:12:08.820 --> 00:12:12.840
beginning and the end, you know, how he was playing the

257
00:12:12.840 --> 00:12:13.320
character.

258
00:12:13.320 --> 00:12:17.820
And Nathan might actually, like what I'm about to say is that I

259
00:12:17.820 --> 00:12:20.100
actually discovered in season 7, and he's nowhere near as

260
00:12:20.100 --> 00:12:24.480
obnoxious as he is in those 1st 3 stories of season 8, despite me

261
00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:28.080
defending it all the way back, back when, he said, that

262
00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:30.659
character's actually more obnoxious in those 1st 3 stories of

263
00:12:30.659 --> 00:12:34.379
season 8 than I think in, than season 7 and perhaps with

264
00:12:34.379 --> 00:12:35.879
Solurian's been the exception.

265
00:12:35.940 --> 00:12:38.639
That was actually a bit of a... for the listener, what are those

266
00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:39.059
1st three?

267
00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:41.279
Terror of the all.

268
00:12:41.340 --> 00:12:43.500
The mind of evil and the cause of axis.

269
00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:45.120
But they're 3 of the best, aren't we?

270
00:12:45.179 --> 00:12:46.080
No, no.

271
00:12:46.139 --> 00:12:47.700
No, no, we love them.

272
00:12:47.759 --> 00:12:48.720
Mind of evil.

273
00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:49.259
According for that one.

274
00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:50.700
I love mine.

275
00:12:50.759 --> 00:12:51.840
No, no, no, I liked them.

276
00:12:51.899 --> 00:12:55.740
I like that Axos is being in a bowie concert peeling yourself off

277
00:12:55.740 --> 00:12:58.559
the cherry picker because he was the 1st guy to bring cherry

278
00:12:58.559 --> 00:12:59.700
pickers on stage because.

279
00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:01.200
I think Claus' Axos gets that.

280
00:13:01.259 --> 00:13:04.679
It's a real psychedelic British.

281
00:13:04.740 --> 00:13:07.259
It is, but the characters are really terrible, I think.

282
00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:07.980
That's the problem.

283
00:13:08.039 --> 00:13:10.080
I thought they were landing. much worse.

284
00:13:10.139 --> 00:13:12.120
I thought that whole point of all of those things was sending

285
00:13:12.120 --> 00:13:12.659
itself up.

286
00:13:12.779 --> 00:13:16.259
Did you get a sense that pertly was maybe taking a bit of the pith

287
00:13:16.259 --> 00:13:16.679
as well?

288
00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:17.519
No.

289
00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:18.539
In a pithy manner?

290
00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:18.899
No?

291
00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:21.299
No, I just, I just, it was just interesting because as I was

292
00:13:21.299 --> 00:13:24.659
watching things, I realised how well he got on with the brigadier

293
00:13:24.659 --> 00:13:27.120
perhaps in spirit from space and very much in ambassadors of

294
00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:27.419
death.

295
00:13:27.480 --> 00:13:31.019
And even the 1st couple of episodes in Inferno, they're not too

296
00:13:31.019 --> 00:13:31.200
bad.

297
00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:34.200
And then it starts to change in various parts of Inferno.

298
00:13:34.259 --> 00:13:36.360
And then it's sort of almost this reaction that we have to make

299
00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:37.980
Joe so loveable.

300
00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:41.220
So the doctor has to swing back the other way just so, you know

301
00:13:41.220 --> 00:13:42.419
was a sort of reactionary thing.

302
00:13:42.480 --> 00:13:43.440
I was actually quite surprised.

303
00:13:43.500 --> 00:13:47.220
I think it's kind of the other way around because he starts terror

304
00:13:47.220 --> 00:13:50.879
of the autons really annoyed by the fact that Liz is gone and he

305
00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:52.379
doesn't have a proper assistant anymore.

306
00:13:52.440 --> 00:13:55.860
Joe proves herself to us the audience in the 1st story straight

307
00:13:55.860 --> 00:13:57.419
away by heading into danger.

308
00:13:57.480 --> 00:14:03.000
But she has to prove herself to the doctor and he won't accept her

309
00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:04.559
until cause of access.

310
00:14:04.679 --> 00:14:09.000
And in a way, he's kind of punished by the story because he tries

311
00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:10.379
to escape Earth and can't.

312
00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:13.440
So he's kind of being punished there for his attitude in the 1st

313
00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:13.980
few stories.

314
00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:16.500
And I think that's the turning point where he says, I'm some sort

315
00:14:16.500 --> 00:14:20.879
of intergalactic yo-yo and everyone sort of smiles and grins at

316
00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:24.059
him and he kind of smiles despite himself and it's kind of like

317
00:14:24.059 --> 00:14:27.600
actually these these people do kind of sympathise with me in

318
00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:28.259
understanding.

319
00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:29.820
They're not angry that I tried to run away.

320
00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:30.720
They feel sorry for me.

321
00:14:30.779 --> 00:14:35.820
A big part of the character being reevaluated in the 90s, perhaps

322
00:14:35.820 --> 00:14:36.539
less favourably.

323
00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:37.559
I think there's 2 reasons.

324
00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:42.360
One reason is in the 90s we had novels, which were able to go a

325
00:14:42.360 --> 00:14:46.320
lot, a great deal, deeper into characterisation, whereas in the

326
00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:49.139
classic series, there wasn't the time, as there is in the new

327
00:14:49.139 --> 00:14:53.399
series, for characters, motivations, and why not to be spelled out

328
00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:54.779
explicitly on screen.

329
00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:56.580
We'd also had the fan wink doctor.

330
00:14:56.639 --> 00:15:00.120
So McCoy doctor was a completely different character in the Virgin

331
00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:02.639
New Adventures, and that was the doctor we wanted because we were

332
00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:05.399
all at university now, you know, and we drank and we, and, you

333
00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:07.620
know, we looked at people who smoked almost next to us.

334
00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:09.419
I know, we were quite radical.

335
00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:12.480
We think dark, dark, and...

336
00:15:12.539 --> 00:15:17.340
So this home county sitcom era poetry doctor didn't just didn't

337
00:15:17.340 --> 00:15:18.179
sit comfortably.

338
00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:23.039
I do think another reason, perhaps, that he was evaluated so badly

339
00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:27.899
in the 90s is Doctor Who Fandom sort of started becoming organised

340
00:15:27.899 --> 00:15:29.340
in the late 70s.

341
00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:33.659
And from the late 70s. it seems that some circles in fandom.

342
00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:37.740
And because fandom has broadened so much in the last 10 years

343
00:15:37.740 --> 00:15:39.240
there isn't as much of this now.

344
00:15:39.299 --> 00:15:41.340
Do you know there are girls in fandom now?

345
00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:43.919
I was at an event last weekend, believe you me?

346
00:15:43.980 --> 00:15:44.820
I know there are girls.

347
00:15:44.940 --> 00:15:46.080
Are there lots of girls now?

348
00:15:46.139 --> 00:15:49.259
There are lots of fabulous. lots and lots.

349
00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:50.279
You know what?

350
00:15:50.340 --> 00:15:51.000
You know what?

351
00:15:51.059 --> 00:15:54.000
Women who cosplay are my inspiration for dressing up as Doctor Who

352
00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:54.360
girls.

353
00:15:54.419 --> 00:15:55.500
Yes, but he does that at work.

354
00:15:56.639 --> 00:15:59.700
That's the flimsiest excuse I've ever done.

355
00:16:00.299 --> 00:16:03.779
But the thing is, that sets wobbling.

356
00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:06.360
In that early era of fandom.

357
00:16:06.419 --> 00:16:10.440
It seemed like fandom always needed someone to rally behind and

358
00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:12.240
blame for the shortcomings of the program.

359
00:16:12.299 --> 00:16:14.279
So in the early days...

360
00:16:14.340 --> 00:16:16.919
In the early days of it was Graham Williams, followed by JNT.

361
00:16:16.980 --> 00:16:21.840
Now the wisdom is more, okay, yeah, JNT made some questionable

362
00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:25.860
decisions, but really it was Eric Saywood, who was causing more

363
00:16:25.860 --> 00:16:26.399
problems.

364
00:16:26.460 --> 00:16:29.580
But I think in the 90s with no new Doctor Who being made, sort of

365
00:16:29.580 --> 00:16:32.340
JMT went off the boil a bit and it became...

366
00:16:33.419 --> 00:16:34.200
It became pertly.

367
00:16:34.259 --> 00:16:37.440
It became the perl era because the rest of Doctor Who was about

368
00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:40.320
going off into space and having adventures and not having any ties

369
00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:40.860
to home.

370
00:16:40.919 --> 00:16:43.740
Whereas in the perply area, you've got these ties to home and I

371
00:16:43.740 --> 00:16:45.779
think some people zoned in on that is different.

372
00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:49.740
And also picked up on Verity Lambert's comments in the 90s that

373
00:16:49.740 --> 00:16:52.679
she felt that it was too much of a change to the format and she

374
00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:53.820
wouldn't have done it.

375
00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:56.340
She wasn't as critical of it as a lot of people quote her as

376
00:16:56.340 --> 00:16:56.639
being.

377
00:16:56.700 --> 00:16:58.799
She just said, it's not a decision I would have made.

378
00:16:58.860 --> 00:17:01.919
Let's not forget she was also talking about before the telling

379
00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:02.879
movie in 96.

380
00:17:03.059 --> 00:17:07.799
The BBC was seriously addressing Verity Lambert as being the new

381
00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:12.539
producer and the doctor she wanted to bring in with her was John.

382
00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:13.380
She liked his performance.

383
00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:15.720
She just wasn't a huge fan of that. would have loved to have seen

384
00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:15.900
that.

385
00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:18.900
Have you noticed how the doctors go A, B, A, B, in the classic

386
00:17:18.900 --> 00:17:19.500
series?

387
00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:23.400
Except for Billy, because he's his own beautiful quotient, but we

388
00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:28.019
get surprising, received, if you want to say that, or expected

389
00:17:28.019 --> 00:17:28.680
performance.

390
00:17:28.740 --> 00:17:31.559
We got Tom Baker being just as quirky, as Nathan pointed out, as

391
00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:33.539
the wonderful Paddy.

392
00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:36.900
And then we get Peter Davidson, who isn't much commented on, but

393
00:17:36.900 --> 00:17:40.380
actually his performance really is quite, maybe it's not pertly

394
00:17:40.380 --> 00:17:41.579
but you certainly know what he's going to do next.

395
00:17:41.940 --> 00:17:44.640
And then a bit more staid, isn't it?

396
00:17:44.700 --> 00:17:45.779
It's British.

397
00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:51.420
I've been watching robots and Tom spends a lot of time.

398
00:17:51.420 --> 00:17:53.519
Birth refreshing.

399
00:17:53.579 --> 00:17:56.220
Tom spends a lot of time horizontal in robot.

400
00:17:56.279 --> 00:17:57.359
No knee, though.

401
00:17:57.359 --> 00:17:58.859
No evident knee work.

402
00:17:58.920 --> 00:17:59.339
Yeah, yeah.

403
00:17:59.339 --> 00:18:02.400
I think it's it's to contrast with perjury, who's very contained

404
00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:03.900
and very versatile.

405
00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:05.640
And don't you think that Hinchcliffe?

406
00:18:06.059 --> 00:18:08.579
Oh no, actually, don't you think that even Barry Letts, because

407
00:18:08.579 --> 00:18:09.839
Barry Letts, whatever you want to say about him?

408
00:18:09.900 --> 00:18:12.660
I think he's a brilliant casting.

409
00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:16.740
He does. and he cast and he didn't cast Mr. Purdley, but he did

410
00:18:16.740 --> 00:18:19.859
cast Liz Sladden and he did cast Katie Manning. and I think, you

411
00:18:19.859 --> 00:18:21.180
know, Roger...

412
00:18:21.180 --> 00:18:22.019
Yeah, and Roger...

413
00:18:22.019 --> 00:18:22.920
Roger Olgutter.

414
00:18:22.980 --> 00:18:24.599
We've got a lot to thank Barry Lance for.

415
00:18:24.660 --> 00:18:27.420
Uh, maybe, you know, well, thank him for everything he did, and

416
00:18:27.420 --> 00:18:31.259
we'll get to that, I guess, could on, but it is so shocking and

417
00:18:31.259 --> 00:18:35.220
surprising to see Tom do things that you just don't expect to see

418
00:18:35.220 --> 00:18:35.819
on screen.

419
00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:39.900
And I find my eye wandering not at all from watching robot where

420
00:18:39.900 --> 00:18:41.039
with the pert we stories.

421
00:18:41.099 --> 00:18:44.579
It was quite easy to go and make a sandwich, for example, or a

422
00:18:44.579 --> 00:18:45.660
nice wine and a bit of cheese.

423
00:18:45.779 --> 00:18:48.420
Brendan, you weren't alive in the 1970s.

424
00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:49.740
So what was the time?

425
00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:49.980
Okay.

426
00:18:50.099 --> 00:18:51.720
No, I wasn't.

427
00:18:51.779 --> 00:18:53.460
The rest of us.

428
00:18:53.519 --> 00:18:58.559
So you've got this perception of, you know, why the stories went

429
00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:00.420
under reevaluation.

430
00:19:00.420 --> 00:19:02.940
What was your experience like compared to ours?

431
00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:05.279
Like, did you love the Perth we were before?

432
00:19:05.339 --> 00:19:08.039
Did you like all the time or?

433
00:19:08.099 --> 00:19:09.720
I did already love the Pertly era.

434
00:19:09.779 --> 00:19:12.539
When I was a child, it was my favourite until I discovered

435
00:19:12.539 --> 00:19:12.900
Patrick.

436
00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:15.480
Um...

437
00:19:15.539 --> 00:19:20.160
I think I think I found him very, very sort of, I was drawn to the

438
00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:22.200
paternal protective side of the character.

439
00:19:22.259 --> 00:19:24.779
I never really got that from him, but okay.

440
00:19:24.839 --> 00:19:30.000
Now, as for sort of what I have discovered this time around is the

441
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:34.740
evolution of his character, starting off very gruff and angry and

442
00:19:34.740 --> 00:19:36.720
growing into this warm character.

443
00:19:36.779 --> 00:19:38.759
Who is the character I liked as a child?

444
00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:43.380
That being said, I also quite like the gruff character, sort of

445
00:19:43.380 --> 00:19:45.660
the smartest man in the room surrounded by people who can't

446
00:19:45.660 --> 00:19:46.680
understand what...

447
00:19:46.740 --> 00:19:47.880
That's never really varied, has it?

448
00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:48.359
Look at Tom.

449
00:19:48.420 --> 00:19:51.240
But, you know, it just varies in how the different doctors react

450
00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:51.599
to it.

451
00:19:51.779 --> 00:19:56.519
In a way, it's made me enjoy his performance even more finding

452
00:19:56.519 --> 00:20:02.039
that out because it sort of harks back to the evolution of

453
00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:05.339
Hartnell's doctor over the course of the 1st year and his

454
00:20:05.339 --> 00:20:08.880
relationship with Ian and Barbara, although the evolution of the

455
00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:12.720
3rd doctor is certainly informed by the people around him, it's

456
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:16.740
not, it's not as tied into the people around him.

457
00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:20.339
It's coming a lot more from pertly adjusting his performance.

458
00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:24.720
Probably, yes, as the actor becomes more comfortable, but he also

459
00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:27.900
did put a lot of thought into it, right down to the fact that

460
00:20:27.900 --> 00:20:30.119
there are directors who tell the same story about him that they

461
00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:33.839
talked about William Hartnell in that he'd be told, oh, and just

462
00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:36.359
go over to that panel and press that and pert we would also say, no

463
00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:38.099
I can't do that because that's not that control.

464
00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:39.660
That's not the door control.

465
00:20:39.720 --> 00:20:41.339
This is the door control, so I need to come to this side.

466
00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:44.460
He was very protective of other actors on set when he saw that

467
00:20:44.460 --> 00:20:45.599
happening too, didn't he?

468
00:20:45.660 --> 00:20:48.660
And this is the thing, I think, where people really, who worked on

469
00:20:48.660 --> 00:20:52.859
the show at the time, have such ability, such abuliance to talk

470
00:20:52.859 --> 00:20:53.279
about it now.

471
00:20:53.339 --> 00:20:55.019
It's not just Katie.

472
00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:56.279
Do you feel that when you're watching it?

473
00:20:56.339 --> 00:20:59.160
Because there are also others who say, like, you know, there's on

474
00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:02.279
the centre of 3 doctors that Patrick Outton was really sidelined.

475
00:21:02.339 --> 00:21:05.160
He just didn't feel comfortable having to share the...

476
00:21:05.160 --> 00:21:06.299
The other example.

477
00:21:06.359 --> 00:21:10.259
The other example that I think of is Sandifer mentions, a scene in

478
00:21:10.259 --> 00:21:13.980
Terror of the Autons, where Pertuy just completely ungraciously

479
00:21:13.980 --> 00:21:18.539
treads on and steals, you know, one of Richard Franklin's lines

480
00:21:18.539 --> 00:21:22.079
Katie speaks very highly of him, but, you know, he might not

481
00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:24.059
always have been terribly gracious, I think.

482
00:21:24.119 --> 00:21:27.180
I think you're getting a lot of the doctor in Kirkley and vice

483
00:21:27.180 --> 00:21:30.420
versa, and that's the point of this. certainly in the classic

484
00:21:30.420 --> 00:21:30.960
series.

485
00:21:31.380 --> 00:21:36.180
As the um, the actor and the persona are pretty much one on one.

486
00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:40.319
You don't really get actively performances until Russell.

487
00:21:40.380 --> 00:21:41.039
Yeah.

488
00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:44.940
So now that we've watched Hart nor Trouton and Pertwee, I guess.

489
00:21:44.940 --> 00:21:50.039
My question to you is, um, Snog, marry, avoid.

490
00:21:52.380 --> 00:21:54.779
Okay, so what, of the three?

491
00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:57.539
Of the 3 doctors.

492
00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:58.079
Yeah.

493
00:21:58.140 --> 00:22:00.180
He's got the worst teeth.

494
00:22:00.299 --> 00:22:01.200
Billy.

495
00:22:01.559 --> 00:22:01.859
Yeah.

496
00:22:02.700 --> 00:22:05.940
Okay, so I think it had to...

497
00:22:06.059 --> 00:22:09.539
So remember, remember, listener, like snorg here means go out, have

498
00:22:09.539 --> 00:22:10.019
a party with.

499
00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:10.799
Yeah.

500
00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:13.740
It means no, no, no, no, it's not beat around the bush.

501
00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:18.180
I think for me, it would be I'd snob Patty.

502
00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:19.380
God would you?

503
00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:21.240
I don't want to be the 3rd person.

504
00:22:21.240 --> 00:22:22.019
You're not the first.

505
00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:25.680
I'd marry I'd marry John.

506
00:22:25.740 --> 00:22:29.160
Because he gives amazing parties and he's got a beach house in

507
00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:31.980
Ibiza. and I'm afraid I'd have to avoid Billy.

508
00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:34.500
Ah, that's outrageous.

509
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:35.039
Next.

510
00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:35.160
Next.

511
00:22:35.220 --> 00:22:35.819
Oh, really?

512
00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:36.480
It's my turn.

513
00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:39.960
You know, I'd marry Patty, I think.

514
00:22:40.019 --> 00:22:40.980
He's busy.

515
00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:43.259
He wouldn't take up a whole heap of my time.

516
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:43.920
Do you know what I mean?

517
00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:46.440
He wouldn't be around.

518
00:22:46.500 --> 00:22:49.019
You know, all the time getting in the way.

519
00:22:49.079 --> 00:22:53.339
Are you saying you'd be a hovercraft like vehicle with a bond bug

520
00:22:53.339 --> 00:22:55.140
3 wheel chaise, and you'd be the 3rd time?

521
00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:56.460
So I'm going to marry Pat.

522
00:22:56.579 --> 00:23:01.920
Um...

523
00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:02.460
Really?

524
00:23:02.460 --> 00:23:05.519
You can you can party with Billy and John.

525
00:23:05.579 --> 00:23:08.700
Oh, I can party with Billy in the Inferno nightclub.

526
00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:11.339
Yeah, okay, I'll snug Billy.

527
00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:14.220
And avoid and avoid perfectly.

528
00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:15.299
I'd avoid poetry.

529
00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:15.660
Yeah.

530
00:23:15.660 --> 00:23:17.880
I suppose you'd have it.

531
00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:19.680
You're better, Dean, before you do.

532
00:23:19.740 --> 00:23:23.579
I suppose pert would steal all your wine and cheese, wouldn't

533
00:23:23.579 --> 00:23:23.700
you?

534
00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:25.859
You'd never get a sandwich in his house.

535
00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:26.759
No monstrous.

536
00:23:26.819 --> 00:23:28.859
It's funny though. right, Todd.

537
00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:29.940
You don't think, oh, wait.

538
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:31.680
I do avoided the question.

539
00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:33.359
I did slightly, didn't I?

540
00:23:33.420 --> 00:23:33.779
You know what?

541
00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:36.480
I think I'll just do a parallel universe thing and I can see

542
00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:41.039
myself living in Miami on the set of the Golden Girls with all 3

543
00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:41.400
of them.

544
00:23:41.460 --> 00:23:43.319
I think that's actually how I would have done.

545
00:23:43.380 --> 00:23:47.160
So it's a kind of Les Boydesque from 70s relationship.

546
00:23:47.220 --> 00:23:49.200
Well, you're not quite sure who's married to whom and who's

547
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:51.900
snocking whom and it could actually be an enormous four way.

548
00:23:52.019 --> 00:23:54.059
But what a sharehouse that would be.

549
00:23:54.119 --> 00:23:55.259
And who would you cast?

550
00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:57.839
Per we obviously be Arthur. got the hair for it.

551
00:23:57.900 --> 00:23:59.759
Billy has to be Sofia.

552
00:23:59.819 --> 00:24:02.759
And Patty with his profligacy in his marriage.

553
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:04.500
Marriage is obviously black.

554
00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:05.099
There you go.

555
00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:05.460
Perfect.

556
00:24:05.519 --> 00:24:06.900
Which one does that make me?

557
00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:07.859
Rose.

558
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:08.759
I get to be Rose.

559
00:24:08.819 --> 00:24:09.299
Fantastic.

560
00:24:09.359 --> 00:24:13.319
I'd actually cast Billy as Rose with all the ditziness.

561
00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:17.460
And I would cast Paddy as Sophia, meaning you can be Blanche.

562
00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:20.700
Oh, I don't have the reputation, unfortunately.

563
00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:21.960
I could share.

564
00:24:22.019 --> 00:24:24.240
I could share. with the other dog.

565
00:24:24.839 --> 00:24:30.599
I think I would have to, um, snog pertry, marry Trout and avoid

566
00:24:30.599 --> 00:24:31.079
harm.

567
00:24:31.140 --> 00:24:35.279
But you know, this is the worst question ever.

568
00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:37.680
It could be Scarman.

569
00:24:37.740 --> 00:24:42.660
Sorry, it could be Scarman, Sir Edward of Wessex and Cat Weasel.

570
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:43.799
I get the impression of those.

571
00:24:43.859 --> 00:24:45.960
So Edward would have had a snog on anything, guy.

572
00:24:46.019 --> 00:24:49.559
So, but in all seriousness, like, you know, up to Pan of the

573
00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:50.039
Spiders.

574
00:24:50.099 --> 00:24:51.299
Are all the doctors equal in your eye?

575
00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:52.799
Oh, they were not before.

576
00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:54.119
It's very close, though.

577
00:24:54.180 --> 00:24:57.660
They were not before, but right now, I am loving them all for

578
00:24:57.660 --> 00:24:59.400
their for their disparate parts.

579
00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:04.259
I'm having to say that unsurprisingly, I'm going 213 in that

580
00:25:04.259 --> 00:25:04.619
order.

581
00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:05.819
Gracious.

582
00:25:05.819 --> 00:25:07.079
Pad is tremendous.

583
00:25:07.140 --> 00:25:08.339
I think Billy is wonderful.

584
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:12.299
I think poetry is solid, but he's just not as interesting.

585
00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:16.380
But he's playing an Edwardian hero and that is what you're meant

586
00:25:16.380 --> 00:25:16.859
to be.

587
00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:20.940
You know, I've been picking on those Henry Ryder haggard and John

588
00:25:20.940 --> 00:25:23.940
Buchan novels and that's where he's a Richard Hanney. where his

589
00:25:23.940 --> 00:25:24.420
character is.

590
00:25:24.539 --> 00:25:27.059
Yeah, well, that might be true, but I just don't think that's as

591
00:25:27.059 --> 00:25:31.079
interesting a conception of the character as the other two.

592
00:25:31.619 --> 00:25:32.339
I'd have to agree.

593
00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:35.759
I'd have to agree The doctor in by his own nature is bohemian.

594
00:25:35.819 --> 00:25:39.000
He's not ruling class and he certainly isn't, which is even worse

595
00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:43.259
an adherent to, you know, a partner who's sticking onto the ruling

596
00:25:43.259 --> 00:25:46.140
class, like a barnacle on the side of a ship.

597
00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:49.079
When he when he drops the line about Sir Toby or whatever it is

598
00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:50.279
and seeing him at the club the other day.

599
00:25:50.339 --> 00:25:53.880
The only thing that saves that is for me is when Todd mentioned in

600
00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:55.619
that podcast, and he said, you know he made that up?

601
00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:56.819
He never met Sir Toby's.

602
00:25:56.880 --> 00:25:57.779
It just hadn't occurred to me.

603
00:25:57.839 --> 00:25:58.980
Oh, no, he wouldn't have.

604
00:25:59.099 --> 00:26:02.400
He's still being the, you know, the flyby night.

605
00:26:02.460 --> 00:26:05.640
He still being the unexpected doctor, but he's doing it, but he's

606
00:26:05.640 --> 00:26:06.900
lying and you don't need to do that.

607
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:11.339
Brendan, I'd still put Patrick first, but I'd actually put Pertwee

608
00:26:11.339 --> 00:26:13.619
second over Billy.

609
00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:17.460
And it's like, you know, you know, Billy, Billy...

610
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:22.799
But I think it's also because, yeah, you know, with the ABC rerubs

611
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:25.259
and whatnot, it was my favourite as a boy.

612
00:26:25.319 --> 00:26:28.319
So I think that I think that certainly counts for a lot.

613
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:29.160
But you know what?

614
00:26:29.220 --> 00:26:33.180
As I say, I'm not a little boy anymore, professor.

615
00:26:33.180 --> 00:26:34.740
It's a close run thing.

616
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:38.640
I don't want that to, I don't want that comment to be a detriment

617
00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:40.259
to Billy who's absolutely wonderful.

618
00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:43.920
It's a matter, it's like, do I like milk chocolate, dark chocolate

619
00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:45.000
or white chocolate better?

620
00:26:45.059 --> 00:26:47.400
You like to stop it all in a gob at once, don't you?

621
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:48.660
And you're even on that note.

622
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:51.480
Did you know that Lego are bringing out, not the other building

623
00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:52.680
block sets are available?

624
00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:55.680
I'm bringing out both a Doctor Who set at the beginning of the

625
00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:55.799
year.

626
00:26:55.859 --> 00:26:57.960
We don't know which doctor is going to be, and a golden girl's

627
00:26:57.960 --> 00:26:58.079
house.

628
00:26:58.140 --> 00:27:01.680
So I know I think there'll be a little bit of cross-lego playing

629
00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:02.099
in my room.

630
00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:05.880
Not only that, but our worlds, Richard, are colliding because the

631
00:27:05.880 --> 00:27:10.440
Doctor Who Lego is going to be downloadable into the Lego video

632
00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:13.319
game along with other toys.

633
00:27:13.380 --> 00:27:16.619
So you will be able to have a game where you can pick Doctor Who

634
00:27:16.619 --> 00:27:19.140
characters against back to the future characters and dinosaurs

635
00:27:19.140 --> 00:27:21.779
from Jurassic Park all from Lego figures that you put on top of

636
00:27:21.779 --> 00:27:23.160
your console and it downloads them inside.

637
00:27:23.220 --> 00:27:26.099
We can finally redo invasion of the dinosaurs.

638
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:27.059
You want to see it.

639
00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:29.819
And Lego, and it'll look even better. would work.

640
00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:30.420
Yeah.

641
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:33.779
I want, oh, God, if they bring out a pertwee, that's it. getting

642
00:27:33.779 --> 00:27:33.960
it.

643
00:27:34.019 --> 00:27:34.559
I don't care.

644
00:27:34.619 --> 00:27:35.220
That's the thing.

645
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:37.079
I'm actually going to buy the toys 1st and wait for the game to

646
00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:38.640
get cheaper. lovely.

647
00:27:38.700 --> 00:27:41.519
Welcome to our tiny, tragic little world.

648
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:46.740
Well, I agree with you, Brendan, that I find it really hard to

649
00:27:46.740 --> 00:27:49.680
rank them because I really think Pat's performance is tremendous.

650
00:27:49.740 --> 00:27:52.259
But a number of his stories I'm not enamoured with.

651
00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:53.400
Yeah, I have to agree.

652
00:27:53.460 --> 00:27:56.460
I find Billy really interesting because I'm always finding new

653
00:27:56.460 --> 00:27:59.220
things because I'm not as familiar with that era, whereas John I

654
00:27:59.220 --> 00:28:01.440
am more familiar with, but I'm really glad that watching this

655
00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:03.299
through, I've appreciated him so much more.

656
00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:05.880
So I'm not going to try and put one of them ahead of me.

657
00:28:05.940 --> 00:28:07.559
You've raised a really good point, they're taught.

658
00:28:07.619 --> 00:28:09.779
It's that it's not just the actor and it's not just the doctor

659
00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:13.980
it's the entire crew Imagine putting pertwi within us Lloyd.

660
00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:16.380
How would he have been in that season?

661
00:28:16.440 --> 00:28:18.299
I think I think we would have...

662
00:28:18.420 --> 00:28:20.819
I think we would have found Michael Goff is the new doctor very

663
00:28:20.819 --> 00:28:21.299
quickly.

664
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:26.759
And how would Paddy have been, how amazing would that have been?

665
00:28:26.819 --> 00:28:28.140
Have we all read the Dark Path?

666
00:28:28.200 --> 00:28:32.039
David McKinty's missing adventures with the with the 2nd doctor

667
00:28:32.039 --> 00:28:32.880
and the master.

668
00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:38.220
Ah, I haven't read it, but I do know. an interesting idea.

669
00:28:38.279 --> 00:28:40.319
David McKinty is such a brilliant writer.

670
00:28:41.099 --> 00:28:42.119
Because he also wrote Face of the Enemy.

671
00:28:42.180 --> 00:28:44.220
Yeah, which is just wonderful.

672
00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:46.680
But coming back to something you said a moment ago, Todd.

673
00:28:46.740 --> 00:28:50.640
I think in the purple era, we also have, since the show began, we

674
00:28:50.640 --> 00:28:57.059
have the most consistent run of high quality stories of the entire

675
00:28:57.059 --> 00:28:57.960
poetry era.

676
00:28:58.019 --> 00:29:01.920
The only 2 I would pick out as being less than 5 out of 10 would

677
00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:03.720
be Monster of Paladin and the Mutants.

678
00:29:03.900 --> 00:29:06.059
Yeah, about Time Monster.

679
00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:09.599
Well, Time Monster, as we discussed for...

680
00:29:09.660 --> 00:29:12.779
It's at least a solid vibe because of the good fun performances.

681
00:29:12.839 --> 00:29:14.220
It's a comedy, as you've said before.

682
00:29:14.279 --> 00:29:18.539
So on that point, what are your bottom three, John Pertway story?

683
00:29:18.599 --> 00:29:19.619
I just didn't.

684
00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:24.240
No, well, our personal, our personal boss, our personal boss, I

685
00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:25.259
disagree.

686
00:29:25.319 --> 00:29:27.599
Yeah, can this episode be called Personal Bottles?

687
00:29:27.660 --> 00:29:30.359
Well, Time Monster isn't in my bottom three, but I'll let Nathan

688
00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:30.720
go first.

689
00:29:30.779 --> 00:29:34.259
Well, yeah, I mean, I would have to say those three.

690
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:36.359
I would have to say Monster of Paladon, I think, is just

691
00:29:36.359 --> 00:29:38.339
plangently boring.

692
00:29:38.460 --> 00:29:40.920
Didn't I revive your love of it in our last podcast?

693
00:29:40.980 --> 00:29:41.460
at all.

694
00:29:43.799 --> 00:29:47.279
You know, like Time Monster is sort of watchable.

695
00:29:47.579 --> 00:29:50.940
See, I'm toying with putting the demons in there.

696
00:29:51.299 --> 00:29:55.559
Even though I don't dislike the demons, I think it's just kind of

697
00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:56.099
terrible.

698
00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:59.400
It's kind of not what it, what it's, it's just sort of poorly

699
00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:01.380
paced and full of uninteresting.

700
00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:03.000
No, time monster, it's really terrible.

701
00:30:03.059 --> 00:30:04.680
And what was the other one?

702
00:30:04.740 --> 00:30:06.660
So what are your bottom throws?

703
00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:12.480
So time monster, Paladon, and what was the other one that we just

704
00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:12.779
mentioned?

705
00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:13.380
The mutants?

706
00:30:13.500 --> 00:30:14.039
The mutants?

707
00:30:14.099 --> 00:30:16.019
No, that's not that I quite like the mute.

708
00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:17.940
Well, I know what my bottom 3 are.

709
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:22.680
Coming in 3rd last is The Time Monster. 2nd last is the Monster of

710
00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:25.740
Heladen, and the worst poetry, which I just cannot face is Planet

711
00:30:25.740 --> 00:30:26.519
of the Dale.

712
00:30:26.700 --> 00:30:29.460
Oh, I hate and like that.

713
00:30:29.460 --> 00:30:34.740
Now, I really, like, if you actually ask me tomorrow, to sit down

714
00:30:34.740 --> 00:30:35.880
and watch any poetry.

715
00:30:35.940 --> 00:30:38.279
I could watch any, but if you said that, I would refuse to, and

716
00:30:38.279 --> 00:30:38.880
that says something.

717
00:30:38.940 --> 00:30:41.759
Oh, I think you should listen to Mark Gaitis read the novelisation

718
00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:42.660
because that's really good.

719
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:45.359
It's not the same thing No, I agree.

720
00:30:45.420 --> 00:30:46.380
Okay.

721
00:30:46.440 --> 00:30:47.940
Well, I think my bottom three.

722
00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:52.559
Coming in 3rd is the mutant switch, I think, is very worthy and

723
00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:54.960
has a lot of very good things to say but doesn't say them very

724
00:30:54.960 --> 00:30:55.140
well.

725
00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:56.460
Probably fair.

726
00:30:56.519 --> 00:30:57.180
Yeah.

727
00:30:57.240 --> 00:30:59.700
Coming in 2nd last is colony in space.

728
00:30:59.700 --> 00:31:03.420
Because it's the 1st time we've gone back into space for almost 2

729
00:31:03.420 --> 00:31:05.519
years and it's just, ugh.

730
00:31:05.579 --> 00:31:08.039
And I'm sorry.

731
00:31:08.099 --> 00:31:08.940
I love that story.

732
00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:11.400
That was our favourite of the season, I think, Todd.

733
00:31:11.460 --> 00:31:13.680
I'm about to ask for your top 3 favourites.

734
00:31:13.740 --> 00:31:14.339
So keep going.

735
00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:18.119
Yeah, yeah. 10 listeners, did listeners.

736
00:31:18.180 --> 00:31:20.519
I just looked at Todd's eyes and I saw more white than I did

737
00:31:20.519 --> 00:31:22.440
colour when I said colony in space.

738
00:31:22.500 --> 00:31:25.559
And yeah, I'm sorry, I have to put Monster of Peladin at the

739
00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:29.400
bottom of my list just because, you know, no one gets out of it

740
00:31:29.400 --> 00:31:30.240
too favourably.

741
00:31:30.299 --> 00:31:34.500
Rex Robinson is a fantastic actor, again, sadly, no longer with us

742
00:31:34.500 --> 00:31:36.599
and they put him in a badger wig.

743
00:31:36.660 --> 00:31:40.319
I mean, honestly, you know, I mean, it features Vega next

744
00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:40.740
Australia.

745
00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:42.599
Yeah, how soon he's dead?

746
00:31:42.660 --> 00:31:43.920
Then he's dead by the end of episode one.

747
00:31:43.980 --> 00:31:47.099
It's like the main redeeming feature of the mutants is Jeffrey

748
00:31:47.099 --> 00:31:48.900
Palmer and he's dead by the end of episode one.

749
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:53.160
Does anyone die in the 1st episode of Colony and Space was

750
00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:53.579
particularly good.

751
00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:55.019
The Leasons.

752
00:31:55.319 --> 00:31:57.059
Yeah, all right.

753
00:31:57.119 --> 00:31:58.079
Yeah, she was a bit fab.

754
00:31:58.140 --> 00:31:58.559
There we go.

755
00:31:58.619 --> 00:31:59.460
Richard.

756
00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:01.619
You've covered it all for me.

757
00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:03.539
I'd like to talk about, you know what I really love.

758
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:05.160
Is that going to be an X point?

759
00:32:05.220 --> 00:32:07.319
Well, let's move on into the top three.

760
00:32:07.380 --> 00:32:08.339
So let's move on.

761
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:12.299
Stories would be in contention. for your top three.

762
00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:14.759
I'm not asking you to say one, 2, or 3 because sometimes that's

763
00:32:14.759 --> 00:32:16.319
very difficult, but what would you consider?

764
00:32:16.380 --> 00:32:18.599
Okay, for radically, well, radically.

765
00:32:18.660 --> 00:32:21.359
How can you be radical about a activities TV show?

766
00:32:21.420 --> 00:32:22.859
It was radical in this term?

767
00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:25.259
And for different reasons, I love spearhead from space.

768
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:26.700
I love the mutants.

769
00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:29.880
And I love, um, Green Death.

770
00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:34.079
But then, sorry, Planet of the Spiders is my all-time favourite

771
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:37.019
but we story, so that gets its own non-laired award.

772
00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:38.579
Nathan?

773
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:41.339
Carnival of Monsters, I think, is the best poetry.

774
00:32:41.400 --> 00:32:45.000
I think it's just terribly clever and so vastly different from

775
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:46.019
what he normally does.

776
00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:47.880
I think it's really, really very good.

777
00:32:47.940 --> 00:32:50.940
And then I struggle a little bit. you know what I mean?

778
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:52.980
Like, um...

779
00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:57.119
Yeah, Time Warrior is very, very good and very funny and I liked

780
00:32:57.119 --> 00:32:58.799
it a lot more this time around.

781
00:32:58.859 --> 00:33:02.160
I thought it was really, really... always been, brilliant. home

782
00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:02.700
scripting.

783
00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:06.900
Yeah, yeah. that's right Spearhead from Space is spectacular.

784
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:09.839
I think Terror of the Autumn is actually really good as well.

785
00:33:09.900 --> 00:33:11.400
So I don't know.

786
00:33:11.460 --> 00:33:13.859
You don't have to give me...

787
00:33:13.859 --> 00:33:15.900
I'm just saying everything by Robert Holmes.

788
00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:18.960
I think I've just seen him. covers it.

789
00:33:19.019 --> 00:33:23.099
Carnival of Monsters was, from what I can recall, my 1st Doctor

790
00:33:23.099 --> 00:33:23.819
Who story.

791
00:33:23.880 --> 00:33:28.500
I'm not going to put that on my top three, but it does hold a very

792
00:33:28.500 --> 00:33:28.920
special place.

793
00:33:28.980 --> 00:33:32.099
Starting off my top 3 Inferno.

794
00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:38.880
Because I see Inferno as the beginning of the humanisation of the

795
00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:39.599
doctor.

796
00:33:39.720 --> 00:33:43.440
That's, I think, when he actually sort of takes responsibility

797
00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:46.980
until now he's only been working with unit because what else am I

798
00:33:46.980 --> 00:33:47.339
going to do?

799
00:33:47.400 --> 00:33:50.519
Next, I would put mind of evil?

800
00:33:50.579 --> 00:33:54.660
I think it's a real I think it's where Joe starts really building

801
00:33:54.660 --> 00:33:58.259
her independence and the doctor really begins to respect Joe as

802
00:33:58.259 --> 00:33:58.440
well.

803
00:33:58.500 --> 00:34:00.839
What does Joe even do in that?

804
00:34:00.900 --> 00:34:02.279
I'm struggling to remember.

805
00:34:02.339 --> 00:34:05.700
She does she does bash a few of the prisoners.

806
00:34:05.819 --> 00:34:08.519
Oh, yeah, she thwarts an entire Princeton right.

807
00:34:08.579 --> 00:34:09.780
Yeah, exactly.

808
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:10.199
Yeah.

809
00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:12.000
I'm thinking I'm crazy.

810
00:34:14.099 --> 00:34:18.300
Well, the last one, I mean, there are a lot, there are a lot I

811
00:34:18.300 --> 00:34:18.599
could pick.

812
00:34:18.659 --> 00:34:22.139
Frontier in space is almost in there because it's so epic, but I

813
00:34:22.139 --> 00:34:29.099
would actually say the Time Warrior, which, it sort of, restarts

814
00:34:29.099 --> 00:34:33.000
the pertwi era, because a lot of people write off pertwiz last

815
00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:36.360
year because Joe's gone, but that really gives it a kick in the

816
00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:37.500
pants start.

817
00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:40.260
Excellent chemistry between John and Liz.

818
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:44.400
Really great script from Robert Holmes, and it sort of says, you

819
00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:49.260
know, even though Katie Manning is Joe Grant is the glue that

820
00:34:49.260 --> 00:34:53.219
holds the pertly era together, even with her gone, we can still

821
00:34:53.219 --> 00:34:53.699
continue.

822
00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:57.059
We can still have jolly adventures and look, we've got this

823
00:34:57.059 --> 00:34:58.139
fabulous new character.

824
00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:02.099
So yeah, Inferno, Mind of Evil, and Time Warrior.

825
00:35:02.159 --> 00:35:04.260
I'm really surprised you didn't put the green Death in there.

826
00:35:04.380 --> 00:35:09.480
The Green Death, the story itself, you know, it's very solid. very

827
00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:09.719
good.

828
00:35:09.780 --> 00:35:14.280
But I can't put a story in my top 3 just because of the last 10

829
00:35:14.280 --> 00:35:14.519
minutes.

830
00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:17.760
And it's still Sloman and he's still terrible.

831
00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:23.940
And for myself, I will be putting Colin in space.

832
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:26.099
I just can't believe how much I really love it.

833
00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:26.519
It is great.

834
00:35:26.579 --> 00:35:27.539
I just really...

835
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:29.760
You did just hear me choke on my wine.

836
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:31.619
Novel's great.

837
00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:34.739
I'm going to have to say the Silurians.

838
00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:38.940
I just think we sure looks absolutely gorgeous in that.

839
00:35:38.940 --> 00:35:41.280
And I really just enjoyed the whole thing when I watched it.

840
00:35:41.340 --> 00:35:44.039
And the 3rd one's, it's really hard.

841
00:35:44.099 --> 00:35:46.739
I think there's a number that are in contention, I certainly

842
00:35:46.739 --> 00:35:49.619
consider Inferno because I also really, really enjoyed that.

843
00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:51.599
I thought it was the worst of the season.

844
00:35:51.659 --> 00:35:56.760
And I can understand, you know, the fatigue setting in, but I

845
00:35:56.760 --> 00:35:58.619
actually really enjoyed it.

846
00:35:58.679 --> 00:35:59.760
There's a lot going for it.

847
00:35:59.820 --> 00:36:01.139
The beginning of the exposition.

848
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:05.280
And that 3rd one is tough because there's so many poetries that I

849
00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:07.559
would give like an eight, an 8.5 out of 10 to.

850
00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:10.500
The green death or spearhead from space would be the other ones

851
00:36:10.500 --> 00:36:11.519
that I would have.

852
00:36:11.579 --> 00:36:11.880
Yeah.

853
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:15.840
So on that note, what is your favourite season?

854
00:36:15.900 --> 00:36:19.679
I reckon this is actually a bit interesting because going in, I

855
00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:23.280
would have thought it was season 7 because the received wisdom is

856
00:36:23.280 --> 00:36:25.980
you know, season 7's good and proper and gritty and interesting

857
00:36:25.980 --> 00:36:28.739
and then it all turns into panto in season 8.

858
00:36:28.860 --> 00:36:31.619
But in fact, that wasn't my experience at all.

859
00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:34.980
And so I actually found season 7.

860
00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:38.400
A bit tiresome, you know, times.

861
00:36:38.460 --> 00:36:40.320
I'm just drinkless.

862
00:36:41.099 --> 00:36:43.860
Just because it's those long stories all set in scientific basis

863
00:36:43.860 --> 00:36:44.519
and things.

864
00:36:44.579 --> 00:36:48.719
I thought 8 was really refreshing despite the fact that the

865
00:36:48.719 --> 00:36:52.199
masters in it, like I thought it was a really fun reboot, I

866
00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:56.219
thought that 9 was a bit less successful than 8.

867
00:36:56.280 --> 00:36:59.639
It was kind of like their difficult 2nd album, I think I said at

868
00:36:59.639 --> 00:37:04.800
the time. 10 has some amazingly good stuff in it, you know, like

869
00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:06.599
some really terrific things in it.

870
00:37:06.659 --> 00:37:10.860
And 11, I had always thought they were all sick of it and no one

871
00:37:10.860 --> 00:37:12.780
was really caring anymore.

872
00:37:12.840 --> 00:37:16.920
But I actually had the experience that we described earlier where

873
00:37:16.920 --> 00:37:21.840
Liz comes along and really lifts things and and makes pertry up

874
00:37:21.840 --> 00:37:25.199
his game and the whole thing is kind of spoiled by monster Peladon

875
00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:27.119
in the middle of it, taking up 6 episodes.

876
00:37:27.179 --> 00:37:30.300
So I'd have to say it's a toss-up between 8 and 10.

877
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:33.840
How hilarious, because I went through this, and I said to myself

878
00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:37.320
right, I really enjoyed season 7, and I thought Lee Shaw was

879
00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:38.280
phenomenal.

880
00:37:38.280 --> 00:37:42.179
She's so good, Ambassador Death, which lifted that story for me.

881
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:44.340
Yeah, she's the only one you're watching, yeah.

882
00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:48.000
And I really loved Inferno, unlike your experience, ate on

883
00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:48.659
reflection.

884
00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:51.960
Master fatigue in the demons, really.

885
00:37:51.960 --> 00:37:52.679
Very much so.

886
00:37:53.159 --> 00:37:55.559
So eight, I eliminated.

887
00:37:55.619 --> 00:38:00.000
Nine, I really love the 1st 4 stories because I really like the

888
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:01.199
mutants, unlike other people.

889
00:38:01.260 --> 00:38:04.920
And although the time monster falls away, I really liked those 1st

890
00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:05.280
four.

891
00:38:05.340 --> 00:38:09.179
10, I have problems with the 3 doctors, Frontier in Space, and

892
00:38:09.179 --> 00:38:11.820
obviously Planet, Dialects.

893
00:38:11.880 --> 00:38:13.800
So that was ruled out, and 11 I really like.

894
00:38:13.860 --> 00:38:16.619
A lot of those stories are 8 out of 10, 8 out of 10, 8 out of 10.

895
00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:19.199
And I actually like the monster pellet and more than the other, but

896
00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:23.219
on the average, when I work to sort of, sort of my number system

897
00:38:23.219 --> 00:38:27.119
out, actually season 7 comes out in front just ahead of season

898
00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:27.599
nine.

899
00:38:27.659 --> 00:38:30.420
So I actually like the odd-numbered seasons more than they even

900
00:38:30.420 --> 00:38:32.699
numbered seasons. the opposite to you, Nathan.

901
00:38:32.940 --> 00:38:37.500
The years for me it was. season 7 before I sat down, watched

902
00:38:37.500 --> 00:38:41.280
everything in order. and as good as season 7 is, I can't really

903
00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:45.360
put it at the top because Perby's character hasn't fully evolved

904
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:45.539
yet.

905
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:48.119
And that's the only reason it's out of the running, all the

906
00:38:48.119 --> 00:38:49.139
stories are still really good.

907
00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:51.960
I think maybe Todd, that's why it has topped your list because

908
00:38:51.960 --> 00:38:55.139
every other season you can kind of almost look at and say that

909
00:38:55.139 --> 00:38:56.159
one's a bit NAF.

910
00:38:56.219 --> 00:38:59.699
Whereas season 7, I think, is solid from beginning to end.

911
00:38:59.880 --> 00:39:01.619
Season 8?

912
00:39:01.679 --> 00:39:03.119
Almost makes it for me.

913
00:39:03.179 --> 00:39:06.059
But Colin in Space really does drag it down.

914
00:39:06.119 --> 00:39:07.199
For me.

915
00:39:07.260 --> 00:39:08.579
Season nine.

916
00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:10.679
Again, I kind of agree with you there, Nathan.

917
00:39:10.739 --> 00:39:13.440
I like all the stories individually, but it's just not as good as

918
00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:14.699
the previous season as a whole.

919
00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:16.019
Season 11.

920
00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:19.559
Sarah, Liz Layden really reinvigorates it.

921
00:39:19.619 --> 00:39:22.559
But for me, I think my favourite season is season 10. there's a

922
00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:22.980
few reasons.

923
00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:24.539
Like these favourite.

924
00:39:24.599 --> 00:39:25.320
I know.

925
00:39:25.380 --> 00:39:26.760
There's a few reasons.

926
00:39:26.820 --> 00:39:28.619
One, I find...

927
00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:29.099
Yeah.

928
00:39:29.159 --> 00:39:33.420
I find all the stories in it really, really good.

929
00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:36.599
It's the one season where I don't look at it and go, there's an F1

930
00:39:36.599 --> 00:39:39.840
and I understand that some people might consider Planet of Daleks

931
00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:40.500
is an F1.

932
00:39:40.619 --> 00:39:43.199
But for me, it's that popcorn factor.

933
00:39:43.619 --> 00:39:44.460
I think it's great fun.

934
00:39:44.519 --> 00:39:44.880
Yeah.

935
00:39:44.940 --> 00:39:46.260
The other...

936
00:39:46.260 --> 00:39:48.239
It's dire...

937
00:39:48.300 --> 00:39:48.960
It's dire.

938
00:39:49.019 --> 00:39:50.340
No, it can be 2 things.

939
00:39:50.579 --> 00:39:55.380
The other thing I really like about it is, if for whatever reason

940
00:39:55.380 --> 00:39:56.940
you couldn't watch the whole Pearl era.

941
00:39:57.179 --> 00:40:00.059
If you could only watch one season.

942
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:01.980
Like if you're on a desert island.

943
00:40:01.980 --> 00:40:03.119
If you're on a desert island.

944
00:40:03.780 --> 00:40:05.519
And you could only take 5 DVDs.

945
00:40:05.639 --> 00:40:06.179
Okay, yeah.

946
00:40:06.179 --> 00:40:09.059
Or in this case, 10 DVDs because all of this season has been

947
00:40:09.059 --> 00:40:10.500
released as double disc sets.

948
00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:11.159
Have you noticed?

949
00:40:11.219 --> 00:40:14.039
It's the only season of Doctor Who where every single story gets a

950
00:40:14.039 --> 00:40:14.760
double disc release.

951
00:40:14.820 --> 00:40:15.239
Really?

952
00:40:15.300 --> 00:40:15.719
Yeah.

953
00:40:15.780 --> 00:40:21.300
This season, as well as the individual stories, it has for the

954
00:40:21.300 --> 00:40:25.739
characters, a story throughout as well, because the 3 doctors ends

955
00:40:25.739 --> 00:40:28.559
with Joe afraid that the doctor's going to go away and leave her

956
00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:30.599
because he's got his freedom back now.

957
00:40:30.780 --> 00:40:33.179
And then the season ends.

958
00:40:33.360 --> 00:40:35.880
With Joe leaving the doctor instead.

959
00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:40.199
And it just makes everything they go through together in that

960
00:40:40.199 --> 00:40:43.500
season, because Joe's character has now evolved to the point where

961
00:40:43.500 --> 00:40:47.519
she is a co-lead, and she is going out and getting herself in

962
00:40:47.519 --> 00:40:50.460
trouble and getting herself out of trouble, it makes everything

963
00:40:50.460 --> 00:40:55.320
the 2 characters go through, all reach other, so much more

964
00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:59.099
poignant when, 1st of all, Joe thought the doctor was going to

965
00:40:59.099 --> 00:41:01.320
leave, and he does say, oh, no, I can't go yet.

966
00:41:01.380 --> 00:41:02.639
I need to build this piece of equipment.

967
00:41:02.699 --> 00:41:05.940
It's not, I can't go yet because you haven't packed a bag or

968
00:41:05.940 --> 00:41:06.239
whatever.

969
00:41:06.300 --> 00:41:09.659
You know, then in Carnival of Monsters when she gives herself up

970
00:41:09.659 --> 00:41:12.360
so he can get out of the machine and save them in frontier in

971
00:41:12.360 --> 00:41:15.059
space when they're separated on different planets and different

972
00:41:15.059 --> 00:41:18.420
spaceships and Planet of the Daleks when he's dying and she goes

973
00:41:18.420 --> 00:41:21.599
out to find help and almost gets killed in the process and then he

974
00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:22.559
thinks she has been killed.

975
00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:25.500
And finally, in the green death, where she says, no, I can't just

976
00:41:25.500 --> 00:41:28.320
go off travelling while my world's in danger, I have to stay here

977
00:41:28.320 --> 00:41:28.860
and say that.

978
00:41:28.920 --> 00:41:30.659
And he only goes down there because she is down there.

979
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:36.179
It's just such a wonderful story for both characters.

980
00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:42.000
And that commentary with Russell T. Davis and Katie Manning, where

981
00:41:42.000 --> 00:41:45.900
he says, you know, the Joe's development and relationship was an

982
00:41:45.900 --> 00:41:48.780
inspiration to him when he was writing Rose and Martha and Donna.

983
00:41:48.840 --> 00:41:53.579
We've said before, Katie is the beginning of the archetypal Doctor

984
00:41:53.579 --> 00:41:54.360
Who companion.

985
00:41:54.420 --> 00:41:55.139
She's an elf.

986
00:41:55.199 --> 00:41:57.179
Alpha and...

987
00:41:57.239 --> 00:41:57.599
Yes.

988
00:41:57.719 --> 00:42:00.119
Season 10 is where it's most evident.

989
00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:01.320
So it's season 10 for me.

990
00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:06.059
Richard, I think we've all said it before, that Pertley's on his

991
00:42:06.059 --> 00:42:10.619
at his best when he's on his back foot, not on his back with one

992
00:42:10.619 --> 00:42:13.800
knee in the ear, but when he really doesn't know what he's doing

993
00:42:13.800 --> 00:42:16.500
he has to use his intelligence and yes, I'm going to say it, he's

994
00:42:16.500 --> 00:42:17.159
innate talent.

995
00:42:17.219 --> 00:42:18.360
He's a very talented man.

996
00:42:18.420 --> 00:42:21.360
I know he probably these days more for his radio colony because

997
00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:22.380
that's what I listen to.

998
00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:24.539
And he's terrific in that. you know.

999
00:42:24.599 --> 00:42:25.739
And we should also say that.

1000
00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:26.760
You know his favourite performance?

1001
00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:30.480
He said, you know, quite a few years before he died, he was quite

1002
00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:31.019
open about it.

1003
00:42:31.079 --> 00:42:31.920
It wasn't Doctor Who.

1004
00:42:31.980 --> 00:42:32.639
Do you know what it was?

1005
00:42:32.699 --> 00:42:35.519
Wasn't the Navy like it was worse or coming.

1006
00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:37.800
He really loved the character.

1007
00:42:37.860 --> 00:42:41.340
So the more he could not be himself, the more comfortable.

1008
00:42:41.400 --> 00:42:44.639
He was, the more he had a part to play, but I think he also became

1009
00:42:44.639 --> 00:42:46.679
a lot less interesting when he assumed a part.

1010
00:42:46.739 --> 00:42:50.400
And the stentorian received doctor of those middle seasons

1011
00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:51.599
honestly, doesn't bite for me.

1012
00:42:51.659 --> 00:42:54.480
I liked the 1st season when he's finding his way.

1013
00:42:54.539 --> 00:42:56.699
There are some amazingly wonderful moments there.

1014
00:42:56.760 --> 00:43:01.079
And I love the his last season when you can get that sense of the

1015
00:43:01.079 --> 00:43:05.039
wintry ennui and the sense of departing and the same reason that I

1016
00:43:05.039 --> 00:43:06.119
love Tom's last season.

1017
00:43:06.179 --> 00:43:10.320
So for me, it's season 11, because of the presence of Liz, Robert

1018
00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:13.260
Holmes, and for Pertwee's fragility, makes him a lot more

1019
00:43:13.260 --> 00:43:13.920
interesting to watch.

1020
00:43:13.980 --> 00:43:18.179
And for me, season 11 is the, I know what you're going to say, is

1021
00:43:18.179 --> 00:43:20.039
the season of terrific openers.

1022
00:43:20.099 --> 00:43:23.219
Each even Monster of Paladon.

1023
00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:25.559
I really like the surprise opening of each one.

1024
00:43:25.619 --> 00:43:28.679
Because when you 1st seen Monster Pellet on, you think, fantastic.

1025
00:43:28.739 --> 00:43:30.119
They're going to finally explore.

1026
00:43:30.179 --> 00:43:32.460
We've got 6 episodes, we're going to finally explore all the

1027
00:43:32.460 --> 00:43:35.219
things, concepts of a world within world, that we never got to

1028
00:43:35.219 --> 00:43:35.519
see.

1029
00:43:35.579 --> 00:43:36.780
We'll get to see the hierarchy.

1030
00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:40.199
We get to see all this fantastic exposition of a truly alien

1031
00:43:40.199 --> 00:43:40.679
culture.

1032
00:43:40.739 --> 00:43:41.280
Did we get it?

1033
00:43:41.340 --> 00:43:43.500
Well, no, we didn't really.

1034
00:43:43.559 --> 00:43:46.619
But we thought we were going to for that 1st episode.

1035
00:43:46.739 --> 00:43:50.219
What I'm really liking out of this, is how much everybody's loving

1036
00:43:50.219 --> 00:43:53.519
season 11 and I always had this position in my head that it really

1037
00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:55.800
wasn't liked very much.

1038
00:43:55.800 --> 00:43:58.380
And, um, yeah, I'm really glad.

1039
00:43:58.440 --> 00:44:00.780
Like, I mean, I wasn't here for the last podcast, so it's really

1040
00:44:00.780 --> 00:44:05.280
nice to hear the love of this season, that John doesn't, you know

1041
00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:06.059
give up acting.

1042
00:44:06.119 --> 00:44:08.340
He's, you know, he's conveying this loneliness.

1043
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:11.400
Liz is great and there is so much in them. really, really good.

1044
00:44:11.519 --> 00:44:14.099
So on that note, the snug, marry, avoid.

1045
00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:17.940
Joe Grant, Liz Shaw, Sarah Jane Smith.

1046
00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:20.400
Oh gosh, that's really hard, isn't it?

1047
00:44:20.519 --> 00:44:24.480
It's like the opposite problem that we have.

1048
00:44:24.539 --> 00:44:27.420
I am going to...

1049
00:44:27.420 --> 00:44:30.960
I'm going to Snog Katie.

1050
00:44:31.019 --> 00:44:33.239
I mean, I'm going to smell Joe Grant.

1051
00:44:33.300 --> 00:44:33.539
Yes.

1052
00:44:33.539 --> 00:44:33.900
Yes.

1053
00:44:34.739 --> 00:44:39.599
Because I just think she's gorgeous and lovely and fantastic and I

1054
00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:40.920
think she's perfect fun.

1055
00:44:40.980 --> 00:44:44.039
I am going to Mary Liz.

1056
00:44:44.099 --> 00:44:45.360
Sure.

1057
00:44:45.360 --> 00:44:46.320
Absolutely.

1058
00:44:46.380 --> 00:44:47.880
Oh yeah, that's complicated, isn't it?

1059
00:44:47.940 --> 00:44:50.280
I'm going to marry section leader Elizabeth Shaw.

1060
00:44:50.699 --> 00:44:55.260
Section leader, I think, too, although her prospects of retirement

1061
00:44:55.260 --> 00:44:56.519
aren't very good, are they?

1062
00:44:56.579 --> 00:44:58.440
Nice army pensions.

1063
00:44:58.500 --> 00:44:59.400
That's right.

1064
00:44:59.460 --> 00:45:00.239
And great hair.

1065
00:45:00.300 --> 00:45:03.599
Pity there's nowhere to spend the army page.

1066
00:45:03.659 --> 00:45:09.059
Um, and and I'm avoiding uh, I'm avoiding Sarah because she's got

1067
00:45:09.059 --> 00:45:10.739
a giant spider on a bag.

1068
00:45:11.340 --> 00:45:13.800
Nice responses, Nathan.

1069
00:45:14.820 --> 00:45:16.260
Right.

1070
00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:21.119
I think I would also snog Joe. Get her all dolled up for a nice

1071
00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:23.639
now, a night out. meets you, my girl.

1072
00:45:23.699 --> 00:45:24.960
Hell, yeah.

1073
00:45:25.019 --> 00:45:25.860
Hello.

1074
00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:30.059
I think I would actually marry Sarah Jane Smith.

1075
00:45:30.119 --> 00:45:31.139
I don't think Liz would have me.

1076
00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:32.460
I don't think Liz would put up with me.

1077
00:45:32.519 --> 00:45:37.619
So I'd have to marry Sarah Jane Smith because, you know, I'm I'm

1078
00:45:37.619 --> 00:45:38.579
quite an independent person.

1079
00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:41.340
I like my time to myself and I have a feeling Sarah is that way as

1080
00:45:41.340 --> 00:45:41.519
well.

1081
00:45:41.579 --> 00:45:44.039
So we'd be quite compatible in that regard.

1082
00:45:44.099 --> 00:45:45.960
You know, we go off and have our own adventures and come back and

1083
00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:48.239
say, you're not going to believe what I saw dinosaurs.

1084
00:45:48.300 --> 00:45:50.639
Yeah, well, I've been to a philaterally convention.

1085
00:45:51.059 --> 00:45:52.619
Hi.

1086
00:45:52.860 --> 00:45:54.840
In this ladies.

1087
00:45:54.900 --> 00:45:59.940
So you're avoiding I'm avoiding Liz just because of the ultimate

1088
00:45:59.940 --> 00:46:00.480
rejection.

1089
00:46:00.539 --> 00:46:03.539
I'm going to save myself that heartbreak and just love her from

1090
00:46:03.539 --> 00:46:03.840
afar.

1091
00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:05.099
Oh.

1092
00:46:05.099 --> 00:46:07.260
Probably wise.

1093
00:46:07.500 --> 00:46:12.480
Well, bearing in mind, this is very parallel universe question.

1094
00:46:12.539 --> 00:46:15.599
I think we'd move into a parallel universe TV and I'd be

1095
00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:19.139
downstairs and it'll be upstairs in the flat for a man about the

1096
00:46:19.139 --> 00:46:22.199
house and it would be, again, the 3 girls living up there and I'd

1097
00:46:22.199 --> 00:46:23.639
be Mrs. Roper downstairs.

1098
00:46:23.699 --> 00:46:26.340
I'd be with the jaws coming up and you know, getting into the

1099
00:46:26.340 --> 00:46:26.699
gills.

1100
00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:31.980
No, because I, because again, it's, I want to see the dynamic.

1101
00:46:32.039 --> 00:46:34.500
I want to see a sitcom with those 3 sharing a flat.

1102
00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:38.760
I think that would be terrifically fun and that, you know, you

1103
00:46:38.760 --> 00:46:40.980
could get a few little moments, you know, a few little words about

1104
00:46:40.980 --> 00:46:42.599
the doctor and I suppose he could appear.

1105
00:46:42.659 --> 00:46:44.940
You know, at the end in the last episode.

1106
00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:48.420
It'd be a bit like birds of prey, but enjoyable.

1107
00:46:48.480 --> 00:46:49.320
Yeah.

1108
00:46:52.380 --> 00:46:54.539
Yeah, so I'm Mrs. Roger for this one.

1109
00:46:54.780 --> 00:46:57.420
Oh, so it comes back to me now.

1110
00:46:57.480 --> 00:46:59.159
Who am I going to snob?

1111
00:46:59.219 --> 00:47:04.559
I think I'm going to have to go with Elizabeth Shaw, especially if

1112
00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:07.320
she's dogged up like in the Sunurians.

1113
00:47:07.380 --> 00:47:10.500
I think she's got a wicked sense of humour and let's her hair down

1114
00:47:10.500 --> 00:47:12.119
and we have a great time.

1115
00:47:12.119 --> 00:47:13.199
It up in a hat too.

1116
00:47:13.260 --> 00:47:14.099
Yes.

1117
00:47:14.340 --> 00:47:17.699
I'm going to marry Joe Grant.

1118
00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:19.980
Oh, Cliff.

1119
00:47:21.239 --> 00:47:23.280
I didn't think about that.

1120
00:47:23.340 --> 00:47:23.820
Thanks.

1121
00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:27.719
Which means I have to avoid Sarah Jane Smith.

1122
00:47:27.780 --> 00:47:31.980
I think I'm so in awe of her that I just couldn't really go up to

1123
00:47:31.980 --> 00:47:35.340
her and talk to her in a coherent manner.

1124
00:47:35.400 --> 00:47:39.059
I think if I did, I'd be walking down a corridor and there'd be

1125
00:47:39.059 --> 00:47:41.940
some sort of pole in the way and I might sort of bang into it and

1126
00:47:41.940 --> 00:47:43.440
go, oh, sorry about that.

1127
00:47:43.500 --> 00:47:46.320
And then we'd start talking again and then we'd walk down the

1128
00:47:46.320 --> 00:47:49.079
corridor a bit further and there'd be a 2nd pole and I'd also do

1129
00:47:49.079 --> 00:47:50.099
the same thing twice over.

1130
00:47:50.159 --> 00:47:52.679
You've thought about this a lot more than I have thought about

1131
00:47:52.679 --> 00:47:53.460
with Lou Shaw.

1132
00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:58.019
Well, you know, maybe I'm just relaying a bit of a story about

1133
00:47:58.019 --> 00:48:00.599
something that happened in real life.

1134
00:48:00.659 --> 00:48:02.280
Oh, goodness, okay.

1135
00:48:02.340 --> 00:48:05.340
Is this you talking to Elizabeth Slade and smacking into a

1136
00:48:05.340 --> 00:48:08.760
succession of polls because you're so absolutely in awe of her?

1137
00:48:08.820 --> 00:48:09.840
This is correct.

1138
00:48:11.400 --> 00:48:16.260
The very 1st time I met her, which was in a convention, I think, in

1139
00:48:16.260 --> 00:48:17.940
1995.

1140
00:48:18.119 --> 00:48:22.860
The lovely Andrew Beach introduced me to her and we had a nice

1141
00:48:22.860 --> 00:48:23.400
conversation.

1142
00:48:23.460 --> 00:48:26.400
I was just so band boy about the whole thing and then she had to

1143
00:48:26.400 --> 00:48:27.659
go off and do something.

1144
00:48:27.719 --> 00:48:30.420
She said, well, walk with me and we're walking down this hotel

1145
00:48:30.420 --> 00:48:31.800
corridor and there were these.

1146
00:48:31.860 --> 00:48:34.079
It wasn't just a straight corridor.

1147
00:48:34.139 --> 00:48:38.039
There was these little pylon things and so I walked in.

1148
00:48:38.159 --> 00:48:39.059
Like in Mathal city.

1149
00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:43.139
Yeah, and so I walked into one and then it was like, 0 my goodness

1150
00:48:43.139 --> 00:48:45.539
you know, and then we kept walking and I did it a second.

1151
00:48:45.659 --> 00:48:49.019
So, yeah, you know, there's my little story there.

1152
00:48:49.079 --> 00:48:53.280
So I just think I have to avoid Sarah James because I just would

1153
00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:54.119
do silly things.

1154
00:48:54.179 --> 00:48:57.719
I seem to recall, dear listener, and told me not want to tell the

1155
00:48:57.719 --> 00:48:59.760
story, but I'm going to tell it now.

1156
00:48:59.820 --> 00:49:03.000
No, I'm just remembering back to who ventioned three.

1157
00:49:03.780 --> 00:49:10.199
Todd and the now late Elizabeth Sladen conspired with Roadshow

1158
00:49:10.199 --> 00:49:13.739
video as it was then and the Canberra Dalek Builders to do a

1159
00:49:13.739 --> 00:49:19.559
special launch scene for Paradise Towers on VHS.

1160
00:49:19.619 --> 00:49:24.599
So Todd, who at the time did a, how did this splendid John Pertwe

1161
00:49:24.599 --> 00:49:30.360
outfit. ran in running away from these daleks and then Liz Slayton

1162
00:49:30.360 --> 00:49:34.559
ran in, to which Todd says to her, it's you, but no, it's you

1163
00:49:34.559 --> 00:49:34.920
you.

1164
00:49:34.980 --> 00:49:38.760
And they did, they did this whole scene with the Daleks arriving

1165
00:49:38.760 --> 00:49:41.579
and eventually they scare off the Daleks with a copy of Paradise

1166
00:49:41.579 --> 00:49:45.719
Towers because as, and this is Todd and Liz Sladen back and forth

1167
00:49:45.719 --> 00:49:48.000
oh, it's got the Red Canes and the Blue Kangs.

1168
00:49:48.059 --> 00:49:49.980
Oh, and it's got the caretakers.

1169
00:49:50.039 --> 00:49:53.639
Oh, and the Rezis, and it's got, and then both in unison, Mel.

1170
00:49:53.639 --> 00:49:54.780
Retreat.

1171
00:49:54.840 --> 00:49:55.739
Retreat.

1172
00:49:55.800 --> 00:49:57.599
And that was my 1st convention dog.

1173
00:49:57.659 --> 00:49:58.380
Oh wow.

1174
00:49:58.440 --> 00:50:00.960
Oh, actually, I told her, I wasn't who mentioned one, but I was

1175
00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:01.739
bearing that.

1176
00:50:02.159 --> 00:50:03.480
I was tiny.

1177
00:50:03.539 --> 00:50:05.579
I don't remember much of it except breaking my Sylvester McCoy

1178
00:50:05.579 --> 00:50:06.840
action figure. very annoying..

1179
00:50:06.900 --> 00:50:09.360
So no, that was the that was the 1st convention I was at under my

1180
00:50:09.360 --> 00:50:11.340
own steam and that's my abiding memory of that.

1181
00:50:11.400 --> 00:50:15.239
Just you and Liz up there having fun and launching the video and

1182
00:50:15.239 --> 00:50:18.659
especially Liz Sladen being willing to sort of send herself up a

1183
00:50:18.659 --> 00:50:20.460
bit to launch that.

1184
00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:22.619
I do seem to recall.

1185
00:50:22.679 --> 00:50:24.539
I may be wrong, but these things recall as sort of people with

1186
00:50:24.539 --> 00:50:25.980
disbanding afterwards.

1187
00:50:26.039 --> 00:50:28.440
I think she turned to you and said, I'm not even in this one am

1188
00:50:28.440 --> 00:50:28.679
I?

1189
00:50:28.980 --> 00:50:32.940
She was a really, really good sport with that whole thing.

1190
00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:35.940
You know, it's interesting hearing a different perspective of that

1191
00:50:35.940 --> 00:50:39.239
because, you know, when you're doing it, you go, you're up there

1192
00:50:39.239 --> 00:50:42.719
acting the bit and I'm going, oh my goodness, it's Elizabeth

1193
00:50:42.719 --> 00:50:45.539
Slater and we're sending up, you know, Paradise Towers, you must

1194
00:50:45.539 --> 00:50:47.159
think I'm an absolute idiot, you know?

1195
00:50:47.219 --> 00:50:49.199
And so, you know, it was a lot of fun.

1196
00:50:49.320 --> 00:50:50.219
She seemed to enjoy herself.

1197
00:50:50.280 --> 00:50:52.559
Look, she was an absolute delight.

1198
00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:54.239
And she loved John.

1199
00:50:54.300 --> 00:50:55.139
She loved John.

1200
00:50:55.139 --> 00:50:59.219
We did that convention at the end of the year after John's passing

1201
00:50:59.219 --> 00:51:03.539
and she found it very hard to talk about John and what he meant to

1202
00:51:03.539 --> 00:51:07.079
her, but the love that she had for that man was incredible.

1203
00:51:07.139 --> 00:51:12.059
I think people tend to forget they think of, you know, her time

1204
00:51:12.059 --> 00:51:16.920
with Tom and Ella chemistry, but it was so evident to me. in the

1205
00:51:16.920 --> 00:51:20.639
conversations that we had either on stage or behind the scenes

1206
00:51:20.639 --> 00:51:23.039
that, you know, he meant so much to her.

1207
00:51:23.099 --> 00:51:26.639
It's easy to forget they spent more time together on a convention

1208
00:51:26.639 --> 00:51:29.280
circuit working on those than they did in the studios.

1209
00:51:29.400 --> 00:51:32.400
So they actually got to know each other when they were all much

1210
00:51:32.400 --> 00:51:35.400
more mature and more themselves.

1211
00:51:35.460 --> 00:51:38.340
So we were really lucky to have had all of those moments.

1212
00:51:38.400 --> 00:51:41.219
I can't wait in future seasons to hear some of Todd's other

1213
00:51:41.219 --> 00:51:44.159
wonderful anecdotes about conventions.

1214
00:51:44.219 --> 00:51:47.159
So, you know, the one with Liz Sladden and the telegraph cucumber

1215
00:51:47.159 --> 00:51:49.440
is one I'm particularly excited to.

1216
00:51:49.500 --> 00:51:51.360
Isn't that a Sherlock Holmes story?

1217
00:51:51.420 --> 00:51:54.480
I can tell it when he was sent out to, you know.

1218
00:51:54.539 --> 00:51:56.219
Oh, I know.

1219
00:51:56.280 --> 00:51:57.900
I now know what you're saying.

1220
00:51:57.960 --> 00:52:01.380
Some things are better left off the podcast.

1221
00:52:01.440 --> 00:52:04.980
It was very important to being earnest, wasn't it, when you have

1222
00:52:04.980 --> 00:52:08.699
to come back. not for love nor money. and be obtained.

1223
00:52:08.760 --> 00:52:09.420
All right.

1224
00:52:09.420 --> 00:52:11.579
This is actually a true story listener. to it another time.

1225
00:52:11.639 --> 00:52:12.300
Maybe.

1226
00:52:12.360 --> 00:52:13.199
And that's the thing.

1227
00:52:13.260 --> 00:52:15.119
Todd's not here to tell it, Richard Mill.

1228
00:52:15.179 --> 00:52:17.039
I hope it tells it accurate.

1229
00:52:17.159 --> 00:52:19.860
She was always a very, very generous person.

1230
00:52:19.860 --> 00:52:24.420
And, you know, I met her a number of times after the convention.

1231
00:52:24.480 --> 00:52:26.159
She loved you.

1232
00:52:26.159 --> 00:52:27.659
She actually did.

1233
00:52:27.719 --> 00:52:28.980
She was very fond of talk.

1234
00:52:29.039 --> 00:52:31.860
I do, we're going off track.

1235
00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:32.760
We need to get back on track.

1236
00:52:32.820 --> 00:52:33.360
No, we're not.

1237
00:52:33.420 --> 00:52:33.840
This is all.

1238
00:52:33.900 --> 00:52:35.579
This is how we do our podcast.

1239
00:52:35.639 --> 00:52:37.139
I don't forget, I'll never forget.

1240
00:52:37.139 --> 00:52:40.980
I'm meeting her one time for lunch in London, and it was a rainy

1241
00:52:40.980 --> 00:52:45.900
day, and I was with a friend of the podcast, Sarah Gronovagan, and

1242
00:52:45.900 --> 00:52:48.960
this fiddle figure came out on the tube or whatever.

1243
00:52:49.019 --> 00:52:53.519
And you know that outfit that Sarah wears in in the 5 doctors.

1244
00:52:53.579 --> 00:52:54.119
You know that?

1245
00:52:54.179 --> 00:52:55.260
Oh, in God.

1246
00:52:55.320 --> 00:52:55.980
The pink the pink.

1247
00:52:56.039 --> 00:52:57.000
Is that exactly the same thing?

1248
00:52:57.059 --> 00:53:00.360
No, no, no, no, the raincoat.

1249
00:53:00.420 --> 00:53:01.199
Oh, the raincoat, yeah.

1250
00:53:01.260 --> 00:53:03.119
And we just, Sarah and I just looked at each other.

1251
00:53:03.179 --> 00:53:06.719
My brain ceremony to each other and went, oh, my God.

1252
00:53:06.719 --> 00:53:08.639
It's probably looking from the 5 doctors.

1253
00:53:08.699 --> 00:53:11.400
So, of course, for the 1st 5 minutes, we're just there going, she's

1254
00:53:11.400 --> 00:53:12.960
wearing the same thing on the 5 doctors.

1255
00:53:13.019 --> 00:53:13.559
It was great.

1256
00:53:13.800 --> 00:53:17.280
Yeah, she was always very generous and we met up a number of

1257
00:53:17.280 --> 00:53:17.519
times.

1258
00:53:17.579 --> 00:53:21.480
But that's, we'll talk about that, Pat, some other point, you know

1259
00:53:21.480 --> 00:53:22.139
maybe a few things.

1260
00:53:22.380 --> 00:53:25.019
Now, to change type completely.

1261
00:53:25.079 --> 00:53:28.800
Your favourite guest star in the post where you are or guest

1262
00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:29.159
role?

1263
00:53:29.519 --> 00:53:32.400
Not Roger Delgado, who was part of the red one.

1264
00:53:32.519 --> 00:53:35.579
We need to talk about him very soon, but I know your answer.

1265
00:53:35.639 --> 00:53:38.699
Tell me It's Scherner from Carnival of Monsters.

1266
00:53:38.760 --> 00:53:39.119
It is.

1267
00:53:39.599 --> 00:53:42.360
I said it a time and it still is.

1268
00:53:42.420 --> 00:53:42.900
Hooray.

1269
00:53:42.960 --> 00:53:44.699
Yeah, no, I think she's really true.

1270
00:53:44.760 --> 00:53:46.079
She was just wonderful. you know?

1271
00:53:46.139 --> 00:53:49.679
Although there are a few people in season 7 at the end there.

1272
00:53:49.739 --> 00:53:53.460
I quite liked Petra and Greg in.

1273
00:53:53.940 --> 00:53:57.179
We were getting his proper sitcom stuff there.

1274
00:53:57.239 --> 00:53:58.079
Actually, it was love story.

1275
00:53:58.139 --> 00:54:01.440
They were the Allie McGraw and Ryan O'Neill of Doctor Who.

1276
00:54:01.559 --> 00:54:03.780
Does anyone know that the love story film was the biggest film of

1277
00:54:03.780 --> 00:54:04.739
its era?

1278
00:54:04.800 --> 00:54:06.900
Love was never having to say you're sorry because she died

1279
00:54:06.900 --> 00:54:07.920
horribly in the end.

1280
00:54:07.980 --> 00:54:09.719
Spoiler.

1281
00:54:09.719 --> 00:54:10.679
I know, she did.

1282
00:54:10.739 --> 00:54:12.780
Whereas in this one, they seem to have got away, didn't they?

1283
00:54:12.840 --> 00:54:13.619
Or did they all die horribly?

1284
00:54:13.679 --> 00:54:15.360
Well, they died horribly and they got away.

1285
00:54:15.420 --> 00:54:16.619
That's the beauty of Inferno.

1286
00:54:16.679 --> 00:54:17.639
That is the lovely thing, isn't it?

1287
00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:20.760
You can have your cake and set fire to it in lava as well.

1288
00:54:20.820 --> 00:54:23.880
Gold's good and good too, actually. why I like that story.

1289
00:54:23.940 --> 00:54:27.360
Christina Benjamin is good in every Yeah, every time he turns up

1290
00:54:27.360 --> 00:54:27.840
doesn't he?

1291
00:54:27.900 --> 00:54:31.380
And Jeffrey Palmer, we've got a whole host of lovies that we loved

1292
00:54:31.440 --> 00:54:32.039
don't we?

1293
00:54:32.099 --> 00:54:32.820
Guys?

1294
00:54:33.059 --> 00:54:35.219
I'm not even thinking.

1295
00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:36.300
I'm still thinking about it.

1296
00:54:36.360 --> 00:54:38.820
There are so many good guest cast, then you go ahead.

1297
00:54:38.820 --> 00:54:39.840
That's too simple.

1298
00:54:39.900 --> 00:54:43.500
Well, if it's guest villain, it's links because he really, just

1299
00:54:43.500 --> 00:54:45.599
anything Kevin Lindsay does is gold.

1300
00:54:45.659 --> 00:54:49.440
And for me though, it's Lady Eleanor.

1301
00:54:49.500 --> 00:54:50.280
It's Dot cotton.

1302
00:54:53.039 --> 00:54:55.139
Snoggin, Mary.

1303
00:54:55.199 --> 00:54:55.679
She's great.

1304
00:54:55.739 --> 00:55:00.960
Just imagine a whole episode of the George and Mildred, repartee

1305
00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:05.039
we would have got with Duke of West 6, who's queer as a coup. and

1306
00:55:05.039 --> 00:55:05.400
it's true.

1307
00:55:05.519 --> 00:55:07.139
It really is.

1308
00:55:07.199 --> 00:55:10.320
And Lady Eleanor, who's, you know, just making things do, and then

1309
00:55:10.320 --> 00:55:12.900
there's that young, we don't quite know how how the archer fits

1310
00:55:12.900 --> 00:55:14.880
into that scenario, but it would have been fun finding out.

1311
00:55:14.940 --> 00:55:16.980
I really, it's my greatest disappointment.

1312
00:55:16.980 --> 00:55:19.860
If we're going to jump ahead and say, what's the greatest tragedy

1313
00:55:19.860 --> 00:55:23.880
is that we get 6 parts of Monster Peladon and only 4 of Time

1314
00:55:23.880 --> 00:55:25.500
Warrior for season 11.

1315
00:55:25.619 --> 00:55:29.039
I don't think there'd be any doubts of which is the best season if

1316
00:55:29.039 --> 00:55:29.940
those 2 things had happened.

1317
00:55:30.059 --> 00:55:31.800
Mine's a bit left field.

1318
00:55:31.860 --> 00:55:35.699
I thought, you know, I could say Jeffrey Palmer or Paul Whitson

1319
00:55:35.699 --> 00:55:39.900
Jones or, you know, one of the real big name guest actors we had.

1320
00:55:40.980 --> 00:55:41.639
Still shaps.

1321
00:55:41.699 --> 00:55:43.380
Cyril Shaps is always one of them.

1322
00:55:43.500 --> 00:55:43.800
Twice.

1323
00:55:43.860 --> 00:55:44.280
Yes.

1324
00:55:44.340 --> 00:55:46.079
Dying horribly.

1325
00:55:46.199 --> 00:55:50.519
I think I'm going to go for Anna Barriers Annat in Day of the

1326
00:55:50.519 --> 00:55:51.059
Daleks.

1327
00:55:51.119 --> 00:55:51.840
Oh, shit.

1328
00:55:51.900 --> 00:55:52.500
Oh, yeah.

1329
00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:53.099
I am.

1330
00:55:53.159 --> 00:55:56.760
I thought she was a wonderfully, realistically played character in

1331
00:55:56.760 --> 00:55:58.860
a very fantastic, fantastical situation.

1332
00:55:58.920 --> 00:56:03.059
I think she's played really well because she is 1st introduced as

1333
00:56:03.059 --> 00:56:06.119
a villain and we slowly gain sympathy for her.

1334
00:56:06.179 --> 00:56:08.579
But her performance never changes.

1335
00:56:08.639 --> 00:56:10.440
It's just our understanding of her character.

1336
00:56:10.559 --> 00:56:13.019
She makes that work very different.

1337
00:56:13.079 --> 00:56:14.099
She really makes those scenes work.

1338
00:56:14.159 --> 00:56:15.539
I'm going to choose Anna Barry.

1339
00:56:15.599 --> 00:56:19.440
If you ask me tomorrow, I might give a different answer, but my

1340
00:56:19.440 --> 00:56:24.300
answer is my whole wisher as karlick in... in Carnival of

1341
00:56:24.300 --> 00:56:24.599
Monsters.

1342
00:56:24.599 --> 00:56:25.500
Hang on.

1343
00:56:25.500 --> 00:56:26.699
Carlick.

1344
00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:33.420
There's one moment where they fire the eradicator at the, at the

1345
00:56:33.420 --> 00:56:35.940
mini scope and it doesn't work.

1346
00:56:35.940 --> 00:56:39.360
And Karlik's response is just bravo.

1347
00:56:39.599 --> 00:56:43.500
He's so funny and so bitchy.

1348
00:56:43.559 --> 00:56:46.920
And, you know, like he's the centre of all of the scheming because

1349
00:56:46.920 --> 00:56:48.360
it's quite small scale, isn't it?

1350
00:56:48.480 --> 00:56:51.960
Yeah, that planet's basically those 3 people, all of whom are

1351
00:56:51.960 --> 00:56:52.320
great.

1352
00:56:52.380 --> 00:56:53.340
There's Packer.

1353
00:56:53.400 --> 00:56:56.820
You know, there's some the guy from Planet of the Spiders.

1354
00:56:56.880 --> 00:56:58.079
There's just...

1355
00:56:58.079 --> 00:56:58.739
Terrence Lodge.

1356
00:56:58.800 --> 00:57:01.260
There's just 3 people sort of scheming and stuff. it up.

1357
00:57:01.320 --> 00:57:02.699
I think, don't you think they're meant to be?

1358
00:57:03.300 --> 00:57:05.639
Don't you think they're meant to be the backroom boys of the BBC?

1359
00:57:05.699 --> 00:57:08.460
Oh, I think it's, I think it's, they're called officials.

1360
00:57:08.519 --> 00:57:10.500
I think it's with the gray shows.

1361
00:57:10.559 --> 00:57:11.219
Yeah, official them.

1362
00:57:11.280 --> 00:57:12.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

1363
00:57:12.179 --> 00:57:16.920
But Wisha is brilliantly funny and cussing and acerbic, I think, in

1364
00:57:16.920 --> 00:57:17.099
it.

1365
00:57:17.159 --> 00:57:19.380
And he's saying Bob Holmes is live.

1366
00:57:19.440 --> 00:57:20.760
Yeah, excellent.

1367
00:57:20.880 --> 00:57:22.380
So Snog Mario Void.

1368
00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:24.900
Vega Nexus, Alpha Centauri, or the great one.

1369
00:57:25.079 --> 00:57:26.760
Oh, my.

1370
00:57:26.760 --> 00:57:27.480
Oh, too easy.

1371
00:57:27.539 --> 00:57:30.059
Oh, Snog, Veganexis.

1372
00:57:30.119 --> 00:57:31.739
Marry Vegan Axis.

1373
00:57:31.800 --> 00:57:32.760
Is that how this game works?

1374
00:57:34.559 --> 00:57:36.480
What was the middle one?

1375
00:57:36.539 --> 00:57:37.800
Alpha Centura.

1376
00:57:38.219 --> 00:57:41.219
I think I don't know that you'd come out well.

1377
00:57:43.019 --> 00:57:45.179
What would you snog?

1378
00:57:45.239 --> 00:57:49.380
Alpha Century doesn't seem to have a mouth of any kind. stretching

1379
00:57:49.380 --> 00:57:49.860
a point of it.

1380
00:57:49.920 --> 00:57:51.420
We're not eating a monoid.

1381
00:57:52.920 --> 00:57:56.039
You end up with conjunctivitis of the tunnel.

1382
00:57:56.159 --> 00:57:58.440
I think I have to marry Alpha Centauri.

1383
00:57:58.500 --> 00:57:58.920
Okay.

1384
00:57:58.920 --> 00:58:02.400
Yeah, and avoid... spider, obviously.

1385
00:58:02.460 --> 00:58:04.980
Yeah, I'd agree with Nathan for much the same reason.

1386
00:58:05.039 --> 00:58:10.500
So, yeah, it'd be Snog Veganexus, Mary Alpha Centauri.

1387
00:58:10.679 --> 00:58:11.940
Oh, I hit the great one.

1388
00:58:12.000 --> 00:58:13.980
Oh, praise the great one.

1389
00:58:14.039 --> 00:58:17.099
And of course, the great one does reappear in a South Park

1390
00:58:17.099 --> 00:58:17.639
episode.

1391
00:58:17.699 --> 00:58:18.599
What?

1392
00:58:18.599 --> 00:58:20.940
There's a South Park giant spider.

1393
00:58:21.000 --> 00:58:22.440
Yeah, the giant spider of the church.

1394
00:58:22.500 --> 00:58:24.780
Pretty much the...

1395
00:58:24.780 --> 00:58:28.860
Father Mulcahy or whatever his name is in South Park, goes to the

1396
00:58:28.860 --> 00:58:31.980
Vatican to sort of say, you know, we've got to stop child abuse

1397
00:58:31.980 --> 00:58:35.099
and it's like, yeah, but child abuse is part of the culture of the

1398
00:58:35.099 --> 00:58:37.800
Griganak people and you come to these giant alien jellies.

1399
00:58:37.860 --> 00:58:38.460
He's like, what?

1400
00:58:38.519 --> 00:58:41.280
And when they finally reach a consensus with the giant alien

1401
00:58:41.280 --> 00:58:41.760
jollies.

1402
00:58:41.820 --> 00:58:44.039
Right, we must consult with the Spider queen.

1403
00:58:44.099 --> 00:58:45.000
What?

1404
00:58:45.059 --> 00:58:47.940
I do not approve of this change to Christianity.

1405
00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:50.699
And it's the same, it's not, you're saying, churchman or...

1406
00:58:50.699 --> 00:58:52.260
But Kisman Delgado, obviously.

1407
00:58:52.320 --> 00:58:55.860
But it's the same timber. the queen of the fantastic.

1408
00:58:55.920 --> 00:58:59.760
I will, I will find, we'll try to find a clip if Comedy Central

1409
00:58:59.760 --> 00:59:00.539
will let us.

1410
00:59:00.599 --> 00:59:04.079
Richard, Snog Barrier, Void, Veganexus, the Centaurium, the great

1411
00:59:04.079 --> 00:59:04.260
one.

1412
00:59:04.619 --> 00:59:08.579
I don't think it would be safe to snog for Centro.

1413
00:59:08.639 --> 00:59:11.159
I think should be the easiest one for the easiest one to marry

1414
00:59:11.159 --> 00:59:13.139
because again, it would be perfect sitcom.

1415
00:59:13.199 --> 00:59:15.480
I really have ended up in the 70s in this one, haven't I?

1416
00:59:15.539 --> 00:59:17.760
Because you'd be the one dropping, oh, I've dropped 6 plates at

1417
00:59:17.760 --> 00:59:18.000
once.

1418
00:59:18.059 --> 00:59:22.440
Doing the washing up and...

1419
00:59:22.500 --> 00:59:23.340
Exactly, you know?

1420
00:59:23.579 --> 00:59:25.619
We've got Jenny Laird coming for tea.

1421
00:59:25.679 --> 00:59:26.760
You're horribly wrong.

1422
00:59:26.820 --> 00:59:30.119
And I think if you try to snog Alpha Centauri.

1423
00:59:30.179 --> 00:59:32.219
Well, I mean, it's just one enormous phallus, isn't it?

1424
00:59:32.280 --> 00:59:33.539
I think you'd be overstretching yourself.

1425
00:59:34.139 --> 00:59:36.659
Vegan X is certainly to party with.

1426
00:59:36.780 --> 00:59:40.440
But I don't want to avoid the great one because I just think, I

1427
00:59:40.440 --> 00:59:41.340
think she'd know a lot.

1428
00:59:41.400 --> 00:59:42.179
She'd be very interesting.

1429
00:59:42.239 --> 00:59:43.619
You've just got her off herself for a minute.

1430
00:59:44.039 --> 00:59:46.260
That's the trick.

1431
00:59:46.320 --> 00:59:47.219
That's the truth, though.

1432
00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:49.800
I think, you know, should be, oh, shit, you don't need Google, do

1433
00:59:49.800 --> 00:59:50.460
you, with her?

1434
00:59:50.519 --> 00:59:51.179
She knows everything.

1435
00:59:51.239 --> 00:59:52.320
She'd be great, fine.

1436
00:59:52.380 --> 00:59:54.360
We should have her as a guest of the podcast.

1437
00:59:54.420 --> 00:59:57.179
Perhaps it's a shame we didn't have her for Planet of the

1438
00:59:57.179 --> 00:59:57.659
Spiders.

1439
00:59:57.719 --> 01:00:01.559
I think we'd all have to arm wrestle over who would get to do her

1440
01:00:01.559 --> 01:00:02.760
because we can all do the voice.

1441
01:00:02.820 --> 01:00:05.820
I'm just imagining her doing an infomercial now.

1442
01:00:05.880 --> 01:00:08.760
No, we have these excessive crystals.

1443
01:00:09.179 --> 01:00:11.639
So, ask you, crystal.

1444
01:00:11.699 --> 01:00:13.679
Yes.

1445
01:00:13.679 --> 01:00:15.239
Just like that, was it that many?

1446
01:00:15.239 --> 01:00:16.860
Different sizes.

1447
01:00:16.920 --> 01:00:19.619
Yes, yes, the French and Saunders thing where they're looking at

1448
01:00:19.619 --> 01:00:21.960
that jewellery that's so tiny that you show on the hand.

1449
01:00:22.019 --> 01:00:24.239
Yes, yours to keep and enjoy forever. think she'd be great.

1450
01:00:24.300 --> 01:00:25.380
Dominique.

1451
01:00:25.440 --> 01:00:26.219
Yeah, that's it.

1452
01:00:26.519 --> 01:00:28.800
But you cannot buy this one.

1453
01:00:28.860 --> 01:00:33.119
I needed to complete my great whip of crystal to overhold the

1454
01:00:33.119 --> 01:00:33.719
human race.

1455
01:00:33.840 --> 01:00:35.460
Oh, I shouldn't have said that we live.

1456
01:00:38.400 --> 01:00:40.260
He's lost it.

1457
01:00:40.320 --> 01:00:43.619
We lost, Brendan, but...

1458
01:00:43.980 --> 01:00:44.219
Yes.

1459
01:00:44.280 --> 01:00:46.440
Sorry, the same answer as me.

1460
01:00:46.500 --> 01:00:47.039
Oh, okay.

1461
01:00:47.039 --> 01:00:48.360
I'm just, you know.

1462
01:00:48.539 --> 01:00:52.739
Obviously, I'm avoiding the great one because I am the great one.

1463
01:00:52.800 --> 01:00:54.960
Posing like Serverland.

1464
01:00:55.019 --> 01:00:58.980
These are actually my top 4 arms I'm raising into the air, inside

1465
01:00:58.980 --> 01:00:59.820
a skin suit.

1466
01:00:59.880 --> 01:01:01.440
I can last of a gallery.

1467
01:01:01.500 --> 01:01:03.119
The performance.

1468
01:01:03.119 --> 01:01:05.699
The performance that you'd like to avoid seeing again.

1469
01:01:07.079 --> 01:01:09.059
It has to be cotton.

1470
01:01:09.119 --> 01:01:11.340
Oh, such a shame.

1471
01:01:11.400 --> 01:01:15.780
Yeah, and it is such a shame because, you know, I loved I love the

1472
01:01:15.780 --> 01:01:19.139
idea of Doctor Who, after such long time, opening up to speaking

1473
01:01:19.139 --> 01:01:20.699
roles for non-white actors.

1474
01:01:20.760 --> 01:01:23.400
I just think he was the wrong actor for the role.

1475
01:01:23.460 --> 01:01:27.480
I think even if they hadn't swapped his and Christopher Cole's

1476
01:01:27.480 --> 01:01:27.900
parts around.

1477
01:01:27.960 --> 01:01:29.159
Who were?

1478
01:01:29.159 --> 01:01:34.320
Because Christopher Cole actually has sort of less dialogue and

1479
01:01:34.320 --> 01:01:36.539
less to do in that in that double end.

1480
01:01:37.260 --> 01:01:37.980
He gets killed.

1481
01:01:37.980 --> 01:01:39.179
It doesn't help, really.

1482
01:01:39.239 --> 01:01:41.940
I don't think you want the black guy to be the one who gets

1483
01:01:41.940 --> 01:01:42.239
killed.

1484
01:01:42.420 --> 01:01:48.360
No, no, but at the same time, Christopher Cole's character is a

1485
01:01:48.360 --> 01:01:53.639
lot more sort of dubs is a lot more sort of down to earth and

1486
01:01:53.639 --> 01:01:56.460
straight talking, which I think would have suited James acting

1487
01:01:56.460 --> 01:01:59.760
style because Rick James got a lot of comedy lines, which fell

1488
01:01:59.760 --> 01:02:02.460
very flat because he wasn't delivering them as jokes, whereas we

1489
01:02:02.460 --> 01:02:05.400
know Christopher Cole can do that from his earlier appearances.

1490
01:02:05.460 --> 01:02:08.400
So for me, it's the character of cotton.

1491
01:02:08.460 --> 01:02:10.920
I don't necessarily blame Rick James.

1492
01:02:10.980 --> 01:02:13.800
I think he was miscast and possibly badly directed because it

1493
01:02:13.800 --> 01:02:15.480
wasn't a terribly well-directed story anyway.

1494
01:02:15.539 --> 01:02:17.219
Can I say Jenny Ladd?

1495
01:02:17.340 --> 01:02:18.000
You can.

1496
01:02:18.000 --> 01:02:19.739
Then we could just get on with our lives.

1497
01:02:20.219 --> 01:02:23.579
I would have picked her, but it's like, oh, she's only in 3

1498
01:02:23.579 --> 01:02:24.179
seats.

1499
01:02:24.239 --> 01:02:24.659
It's okay.

1500
01:02:24.719 --> 01:02:28.139
Yeah, but she elevates, you know, bad acting to a high art in

1501
01:02:28.139 --> 01:02:28.980
those 3 scenes.

1502
01:02:29.039 --> 01:02:30.539
She hates punctuation.

1503
01:02:31.800 --> 01:02:35.579
I believe it's a pathological fear of punctuation.

1504
01:02:35.639 --> 01:02:36.900
No, Sabo, I love my husband.

1505
01:02:36.960 --> 01:02:37.559
Why did you do it?

1506
01:02:37.619 --> 01:02:38.039
Why, why?

1507
01:02:38.099 --> 01:02:39.960
No, I shan't that you're taking my chant. shan't.

1508
01:02:43.079 --> 01:02:44.579
Richard.

1509
01:02:44.940 --> 01:02:47.400
I don't want to see again.

1510
01:02:47.400 --> 01:02:49.320
Season 10?

1511
01:02:49.380 --> 01:02:50.820
What the whole season?

1512
01:02:51.539 --> 01:02:56.460
John wouldn't... and it's kind of unfair because these things are

1513
01:02:56.460 --> 01:02:59.159
sort of couched between things that are very good.

1514
01:02:59.219 --> 01:03:03.599
So, I think there's actually whole scenarios.

1515
01:03:03.659 --> 01:03:06.719
There's whole villages or whole themes that are happening along.

1516
01:03:06.780 --> 01:03:09.000
I mean, you know, there are quite a few performances in Mine of

1517
01:03:09.000 --> 01:03:11.940
Evil that I think are really execrable and yet I really love the

1518
01:03:11.940 --> 01:03:12.239
story.

1519
01:03:12.300 --> 01:03:15.239
I don't know that I want to pick on an actor as such.

1520
01:03:15.300 --> 01:03:18.000
There is always Prentice Hancock if you're struggling.

1521
01:03:18.059 --> 01:03:20.820
It's kind of, I know, but it's kind of like shooting eagles on a

1522
01:03:20.820 --> 01:03:21.960
launch pad, isn't it?

1523
01:03:22.019 --> 01:03:23.820
He's always there.

1524
01:03:23.880 --> 01:03:25.619
He's always there.

1525
01:03:25.679 --> 01:03:28.980
I don't really have anyone that I particularly dislike, to be

1526
01:03:28.980 --> 01:03:29.639
honest with you.

1527
01:03:29.699 --> 01:03:32.280
I think there are just moments that it's not quite as wonderful as

1528
01:03:32.280 --> 01:03:32.820
it could be.

1529
01:03:32.880 --> 01:03:35.519
But this is one of those things that's a mosaic.

1530
01:03:35.579 --> 01:03:39.659
It comes together. as something that's definitely more than some

1531
01:03:39.659 --> 01:03:40.920
of its little parts.

1532
01:03:40.980 --> 01:03:43.139
And if there is a faulty performance.

1533
01:03:43.199 --> 01:03:46.559
Yes, I could, I think we'd have to say misled doesn't kind of

1534
01:03:46.559 --> 01:03:47.159
stand out.

1535
01:03:47.219 --> 01:03:50.280
Isn't she wonderful because of it and don't we love?

1536
01:03:50.340 --> 01:03:51.179
We look forward to that.

1537
01:03:51.239 --> 01:03:55.019
It's the mother superior's line in sound of music.

1538
01:03:55.079 --> 01:03:55.860
We all know what it is.

1539
01:03:55.920 --> 01:04:00.119
She can't face and it's generally her audience for that one.

1540
01:04:00.420 --> 01:04:02.760
But no, there's no one in particular.

1541
01:04:02.820 --> 01:04:06.119
I'm really happy to have come out of this and see that it's not as

1542
01:04:06.119 --> 01:04:09.179
bad as I thought it was going to be. true.

1543
01:04:09.239 --> 01:04:11.820
I like to talk about the unit family.

1544
01:04:11.820 --> 01:04:17.579
And we've got the brigadier, Benton Yates, and obviously Roger

1545
01:04:17.579 --> 01:04:19.980
Delgado is the master, I'm just going to throw him in there.

1546
01:04:20.280 --> 01:04:25.440
Were there any big revelations, positive negative about the

1547
01:04:25.440 --> 01:04:28.860
characters, the performances that stand out for you?

1548
01:04:28.920 --> 01:04:31.199
I wanted more corporal Bell.

1549
01:04:31.260 --> 01:04:32.699
Yeah.

1550
01:04:32.699 --> 01:04:37.260
Because, you know, all we really got from her as a sense of

1551
01:04:37.260 --> 01:04:40.440
character was that, you know, she's she's reliable and redoubtable

1552
01:04:40.440 --> 01:04:42.599
and gets on with her job and no nonsense.

1553
01:04:42.659 --> 01:04:44.519
And I would have liked to see a bit of character development for

1554
01:04:44.519 --> 01:04:48.119
her along the lines of, along the lines of the character

1555
01:04:48.119 --> 01:04:49.500
development we got for Benton.

1556
01:04:49.559 --> 01:04:53.519
Because I don't think we got a lot of character development for

1557
01:04:53.519 --> 01:04:57.780
Richard Franklin until that last year, uh, for Captain Yates until

1558
01:04:57.780 --> 01:05:01.199
about last year, but I think, I think for John Levine, there was a

1559
01:05:01.199 --> 01:05:04.559
lot of character in there from from the get go.

1560
01:05:04.619 --> 01:05:05.340
He was so much better.

1561
01:05:05.400 --> 01:05:07.559
I didn't realise they were all his ad-lib lines.

1562
01:05:07.619 --> 01:05:10.199
The thing about the doctor taking up hairdressing...

1563
01:05:10.260 --> 01:05:10.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1564
01:05:10.920 --> 01:05:15.000
I mean, and I think he's I do keep coming back to Pertley's

1565
01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:15.360
booth.

1566
01:05:15.420 --> 01:05:18.059
I feel that like he proved himself.

1567
01:05:18.119 --> 01:05:20.699
I think he was proving himself to be a reliable actress, and they

1568
01:05:20.699 --> 01:05:22.440
gave him more and more and more.

1569
01:05:22.500 --> 01:05:27.059
Whereas I'm not having a go at Richard Franklin, but I do think

1570
01:05:27.059 --> 01:05:29.940
his 1st story performance isn't rough. pretty lacklustre.

1571
01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:31.920
And he does get better for whatever reasons, right?

1572
01:05:31.980 --> 01:05:35.159
And I think they do a lot with that character during that 1st

1573
01:05:35.159 --> 01:05:37.860
season, they try and make a man of action, but it often doesn't

1574
01:05:37.860 --> 01:05:38.519
end up the best.

1575
01:05:38.579 --> 01:05:39.360
Yeah.

1576
01:05:39.360 --> 01:05:42.119
And then he's sort of sidelighted for such a long time.

1577
01:05:42.179 --> 01:05:44.699
He's by far my least favourite of the three.

1578
01:05:44.760 --> 01:05:47.820
The brigadier is the one that surprised me the most.

1579
01:05:47.880 --> 01:05:52.980
How perhaps Stadia is in his approach to early invasions.

1580
01:05:53.039 --> 01:05:56.519
Like it's always we're going to shoot him, or he's got the troops

1581
01:05:56.519 --> 01:05:56.880
ready.

1582
01:05:56.940 --> 01:06:02.760
And also, I think, Benton's, often proving himself and pointing

1583
01:06:02.760 --> 01:06:05.579
situations where he's very open-minded, like when he gets into the

1584
01:06:05.579 --> 01:06:07.619
TARDIS and other conversations, but the doctor, whereas the

1585
01:06:07.619 --> 01:06:09.960
brigade is like, no, no, no, make it simple for me and that sort

1586
01:06:09.960 --> 01:06:10.260
of thing.

1587
01:06:10.320 --> 01:06:13.199
So it actually at times shows up the brigadier.

1588
01:06:13.800 --> 01:06:16.320
Not in the greatest life.

1589
01:06:16.380 --> 01:06:19.800
I mean, as a kid, you get, we got all those stories where he's

1590
01:06:19.800 --> 01:06:22.739
working against authority where I think he works really well, like

1591
01:06:22.739 --> 01:06:26.099
you know, in spearhead or in the green death or whatever happens

1592
01:06:26.099 --> 01:06:29.579
to be, but there's that run in like the 3 doctors and certain

1593
01:06:29.579 --> 01:06:30.780
things around there.

1594
01:06:30.900 --> 01:06:32.159
When he's written like an idiot.

1595
01:06:32.460 --> 01:06:34.199
And Benton comes out better. you know?

1596
01:06:34.260 --> 01:06:35.639
And so I was actually quite surprised.

1597
01:06:35.699 --> 01:06:39.599
I mean, I really like Nick, but there was this slight glow taken

1598
01:06:39.599 --> 01:06:43.860
off some of the brigadier's stories, but I really love him in the

1599
01:06:43.860 --> 01:06:44.280
season.

1600
01:06:44.340 --> 01:06:47.280
Do you get the impression that they poorly served, Nick Courtney

1601
01:06:47.280 --> 01:06:47.820
quite often?

1602
01:06:47.820 --> 01:06:51.239
They just neglected the script editor, which just lists on Terence

1603
01:06:51.239 --> 01:06:54.480
just kind of thought, oh, you know, Oh, I mean, I think there was

1604
01:06:54.480 --> 01:06:54.900
a change.

1605
01:06:54.960 --> 01:06:58.320
I mean, he was like sort of this major co-lead for the 1st 7 or 8

1606
01:06:58.320 --> 01:07:03.420
stories and then then units pushed into the background and it sort

1607
01:07:03.420 --> 01:07:06.840
of comes he comes back with the green death to, you know, and

1608
01:07:06.840 --> 01:07:09.300
invasion of dinosaurs and that sort of thing.

1609
01:07:09.360 --> 01:07:11.280
I think he's great in invasion of the dinosaurs.

1610
01:07:11.340 --> 01:07:12.360
I think he's great.

1611
01:07:12.539 --> 01:07:14.460
I think he's superb in the Sarah Jane eventually.

1612
01:07:14.579 --> 01:07:16.679
It's great in like ambassadors and in spearhead.

1613
01:07:16.800 --> 01:07:19.800
All these ones where you got military figures that he's having to

1614
01:07:19.800 --> 01:07:20.280
work against.

1615
01:07:20.340 --> 01:07:21.960
Like, yeah.

1616
01:07:22.019 --> 01:07:23.880
I think it becomes problematic.

1617
01:07:23.940 --> 01:07:27.960
And this is this is a common feature of narratives, especially

1618
01:07:27.960 --> 01:07:29.039
science fiction narratives.

1619
01:07:29.099 --> 01:07:33.420
You make your hero look smarter by making other characters look

1620
01:07:33.420 --> 01:07:34.440
less intelligent.

1621
01:07:34.500 --> 01:07:36.059
It's a very lazy way to write.

1622
01:07:36.179 --> 01:07:37.619
It's pretty poor, yeah.

1623
01:07:37.679 --> 01:07:39.840
And that's what happens.

1624
01:07:39.900 --> 01:07:42.840
And you'll notice the biggest story it happens in with Nick is the

1625
01:07:42.840 --> 01:07:46.860
3 doctors where he's got Patrick and John to bounce off.

1626
01:07:46.920 --> 01:07:50.280
So to make Patrick and John look immediately intelligent, you make

1627
01:07:50.280 --> 01:07:52.019
the brigadier look like a buffoon.

1628
01:07:52.079 --> 01:07:54.420
And I actually think it works the other way.

1629
01:07:54.480 --> 01:07:58.320
So I was listening to the novelisation of Planet of the Spiders

1630
01:07:58.320 --> 01:07:59.219
run by Liz.

1631
01:07:59.400 --> 01:08:03.719
At the very beginning of that, the brigadier picks up that

1632
01:08:03.719 --> 01:08:08.400
Professor Clegg is not really psychic because he's just using a

1633
01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:09.960
word code with his assistant.

1634
01:08:10.019 --> 01:08:12.059
We kind of think, well, that's a clever thing.

1635
01:08:12.119 --> 01:08:13.860
You know, the brigadier is clever.

1636
01:08:13.920 --> 01:08:16.859
And even in robot, you know, he knows immediately that the robots

1637
01:08:16.859 --> 01:08:20.819
next target, the focussing generators, you know, and doesn't need

1638
01:08:20.819 --> 01:08:22.800
to be told, knows where everything is.

1639
01:08:22.859 --> 01:08:27.060
And when the doctor is surrounded by clever, competent people, that

1640
01:08:27.060 --> 01:08:28.260
makes him seem better.

1641
01:08:28.319 --> 01:08:31.619
I think that that's why Joe works immediately in terror of the

1642
01:08:31.619 --> 01:08:34.800
autons because she's terribly competent and can get things done.

1643
01:08:34.859 --> 01:08:37.979
And so when the brigade is an idiot, it actually makes the doctor

1644
01:08:37.979 --> 01:08:38.880
look stupid.

1645
01:08:38.939 --> 01:08:42.420
It's your story about lives in the caves. lives in the caves.

1646
01:08:42.539 --> 01:08:45.840
I mean, where I 1st sort of picked up on this whole narrative

1647
01:08:45.840 --> 01:08:50.939
device or trope of having a stupid character, having a stupid

1648
01:08:50.939 --> 01:08:52.979
character to make the rest of your characters look good, was

1649
01:08:52.979 --> 01:08:55.739
actually in Star Trek in the next generation when the character of

1650
01:08:55.739 --> 01:08:57.720
Lieutenant Barclay starts appearing.

1651
01:08:57.779 --> 01:09:01.439
Because when they introduced Barclay, they have all these comedy

1652
01:09:01.439 --> 01:09:05.039
scenes about how awkward he is around everyone.

1653
01:09:05.100 --> 01:09:08.699
It backfires because it makes the regulars look like really

1654
01:09:08.699 --> 01:09:14.279
horrible people that instead of realising, oh, this man is very

1655
01:09:14.279 --> 01:09:17.520
nervous with human contacts, let's help him and coax him.

1656
01:09:17.520 --> 01:09:19.560
They're really snobbish and elitist.

1657
01:09:19.560 --> 01:09:23.520
Picard even says at one point, how did he get on my ship?

1658
01:09:23.520 --> 01:09:25.859
And someone says, well, he's very technically competent.

1659
01:09:25.920 --> 01:09:26.520
Oh, that's it.

1660
01:09:26.579 --> 01:09:26.760
Yeah.

1661
01:09:26.819 --> 01:09:30.600
So it's like, oh, so he shouldn't be on your ship because he's, he

1662
01:09:30.600 --> 01:09:33.899
might now, if he were written today, might be written as an

1663
01:09:33.899 --> 01:09:35.520
Asperges or autistic character.

1664
01:09:35.579 --> 01:09:37.140
He certainly has...

1665
01:09:37.140 --> 01:09:38.760
It still stands out.

1666
01:09:38.819 --> 01:09:40.079
Terrible writing, doesn't it?

1667
01:09:40.140 --> 01:09:42.899
The thing is, when they brought the character back, I think they

1668
01:09:42.899 --> 01:09:47.279
realised that because in future, when Barclay is awkward, the

1669
01:09:47.279 --> 01:09:50.100
comedy is actually in the reactions to him and they make him

1670
01:09:50.100 --> 01:09:53.399
awkward about things that the viewers might feel awkward about

1671
01:09:53.399 --> 01:09:56.760
like they make him fearful of transporters and he explains it is

1672
01:09:56.760 --> 01:09:59.279
no, you're breaking me down and viewers go, actually, yeah, this

1673
01:09:59.279 --> 01:10:00.659
is a bit like, I have a fear of flying.

1674
01:10:00.720 --> 01:10:02.579
It's a bit like that and they discuss phobias.

1675
01:10:02.640 --> 01:10:07.020
And so I think they realise that whole thing of writing a stupid

1676
01:10:07.020 --> 01:10:09.779
characters make your other characters look good, can actually turn

1677
01:10:09.779 --> 01:10:13.319
you against the other characters because why would they be hanging

1678
01:10:13.319 --> 01:10:14.159
out with super people?

1679
01:10:14.220 --> 01:10:16.560
They're not hanging out with people, but they're making fun of

1680
01:10:16.560 --> 01:10:18.300
people because they're not as intelligent as them.

1681
01:10:18.359 --> 01:10:21.000
I think, yeah, the brigadier was poorly served.

1682
01:10:21.300 --> 01:10:23.399
But yeah, only in the middle.

1683
01:10:23.460 --> 01:10:25.619
He sort of recovers towards the end of the Purley era.

1684
01:10:25.680 --> 01:10:26.699
He's lovely in spiders.

1685
01:10:26.760 --> 01:10:27.359
Yeah.

1686
01:10:27.359 --> 01:10:31.739
And especially his reactions during pertly his death.

1687
01:10:31.800 --> 01:10:34.199
Nick is great in that because you can see the brig is feeling

1688
01:10:34.199 --> 01:10:39.060
emotion, but he's being strong, I think, for his own sake, and

1689
01:10:39.060 --> 01:10:40.380
also for Sarah's sake.

1690
01:10:40.439 --> 01:10:42.180
After the doctors collapsed on the floor.

1691
01:10:42.239 --> 01:10:44.819
Sarah, won't you introduce me to your friend who's hovering over

1692
01:10:44.819 --> 01:10:45.060
there?

1693
01:10:45.119 --> 01:10:47.220
Well, it's the app.

1694
01:10:47.279 --> 01:10:48.600
Well, it's it's...

1695
01:10:48.659 --> 01:10:52.079
No, it's, it's, it's the, it looks like Choji, but and the brigade

1696
01:10:52.079 --> 01:10:53.399
is like, thank you, Miss Smith.

1697
01:10:53.460 --> 01:10:54.779
That makes everything quite clear.

1698
01:10:54.840 --> 01:10:56.699
Yeah, quite real, isn't it?

1699
01:10:56.760 --> 01:11:01.319
part of the fun of the brigadier is that he's not thrown by

1700
01:11:01.319 --> 01:11:02.039
something like that.

1701
01:11:02.100 --> 01:11:02.939
Yeah, yeah.

1702
01:11:02.939 --> 01:11:05.760
And so when he's thrown by the TARDIS, that kind of undermines his

1703
01:11:05.760 --> 01:11:09.300
real strength, which is that he wanders through these stories. with

1704
01:11:09.300 --> 01:11:13.979
a kind of raised eyebrow and a slight curl of a smile.

1705
01:11:14.039 --> 01:11:19.140
And I like the brigadier best when he actually thinks he's a bit

1706
01:11:19.140 --> 01:11:23.460
superior to per tweet and like when he finds per tweets a bit

1707
01:11:23.460 --> 01:11:27.060
amusing, you know, like I think that's that's when he's at his

1708
01:11:27.060 --> 01:11:27.539
strongest.

1709
01:11:27.600 --> 01:11:31.140
It's really just the 3 doctors and maybe a little bit of the end

1710
01:11:31.140 --> 01:11:33.479
of time monster where they write him as really stupid.

1711
01:11:33.539 --> 01:11:34.199
Yeah, yeah.

1712
01:11:34.199 --> 01:11:36.899
Even by the Green Death, he's got that wonderful line of, I'm not

1713
01:11:36.899 --> 01:11:39.000
the dunderhead you all see to think.

1714
01:11:39.119 --> 01:11:43.680
And everyone kind of looks at him. of course I've sent my kid to

1715
01:11:43.680 --> 01:11:44.100
spy.

1716
01:11:44.159 --> 01:11:45.000
What do you think I am?

1717
01:11:45.180 --> 01:11:48.899
So on that note, Snog, marry, of course.

1718
01:11:48.960 --> 01:11:50.760
The brigadier.

1719
01:11:50.819 --> 01:11:52.020
Sergeant Bitton.

1720
01:11:52.079 --> 01:11:52.859
Captain Yates.

1721
01:11:52.920 --> 01:11:55.560
Well, it wouldn't be legal to marry Captain.

1722
01:11:55.560 --> 01:11:57.720
Yeah, it's obviously in this country at the moment.

1723
01:11:57.840 --> 01:11:59.819
You'll be able to get your leg over, I expect.

1724
01:12:00.840 --> 01:12:03.239
I'm going to marry the brigadier.

1725
01:12:03.300 --> 01:12:04.319
Yeah, same game.

1726
01:12:04.560 --> 01:12:06.600
Hello. and you'll always be Doris to us.

1727
01:12:06.779 --> 01:12:09.720
I'm going to snorg Gates.

1728
01:12:09.779 --> 01:12:14.220
Oh, and I'm going to avoid Benton because he's the one that takes

1729
01:12:14.220 --> 01:12:17.399
all the orders and just carries them out, right?

1730
01:12:17.460 --> 01:12:24.119
And so at home, I think he would just be barking the orders all

1731
01:12:24.119 --> 01:12:27.600
the time and I just don't think I would hack that taking it out on

1732
01:12:27.600 --> 01:12:29.460
the poor wife, so I'm not going to...

1733
01:12:29.520 --> 01:12:32.159
Yeah, I mean, he doesn't look so good in a gimp suit either.

1734
01:12:32.939 --> 01:12:36.899
He's a very attractive yeti.

1735
01:12:37.739 --> 01:12:40.020
A fairy gimpsie.

1736
01:12:40.079 --> 01:12:41.819
No need for don't talk boss.

1737
01:12:41.880 --> 01:12:44.460
So I'd snog Sergeant Benton.

1738
01:12:44.520 --> 01:12:45.479
We'll do, darling.

1739
01:12:45.539 --> 01:12:47.520
I'd avoid Captain Yates.

1740
01:12:47.579 --> 01:12:50.579
And I've heard he's terribly fond of you.

1741
01:12:50.640 --> 01:12:56.880
That's a big revelation for me. because before recording these

1742
01:12:56.880 --> 01:12:59.579
podcasts, I actually preferred Yates to Benton, but now I think

1743
01:12:59.579 --> 01:13:01.199
I'm a conversation to Yates.

1744
01:13:01.260 --> 01:13:03.659
You know, having now got to the end of the year, especially that

1745
01:13:03.659 --> 01:13:06.720
beautiful moment in invasion of the dinosaurs when Benton sort of

1746
01:13:06.720 --> 01:13:08.460
says, 0 yeah, just knock me out, doctor, whatever.

1747
01:13:08.520 --> 01:13:10.619
So Snog, Sergeant Benton.

1748
01:13:10.680 --> 01:13:11.640
Avoid...

1749
01:13:11.640 --> 01:13:12.720
Like you do with your French girls.

1750
01:13:13.020 --> 01:13:15.899
And marry the brig.

1751
01:13:15.960 --> 01:13:18.000
Oh, dear Mr, my job is dark.

1752
01:13:19.739 --> 01:13:24.720
Um, Brendan, um, should yourself and Richard Franklin get on quite

1753
01:13:24.720 --> 01:13:25.319
well?

1754
01:13:25.380 --> 01:13:26.279
I did actually get on.

1755
01:13:26.340 --> 01:13:28.800
Yeah, I got on the question was not about Richard Franklin.

1756
01:13:28.859 --> 01:13:29.399
No, it's not.

1757
01:13:29.460 --> 01:13:30.899
I think there might be an A priority.

1758
01:13:30.960 --> 01:13:31.619
It's a very nice man.

1759
01:13:31.680 --> 01:13:32.460
Yes, he is.

1760
01:13:32.520 --> 01:13:32.939
Yeah.

1761
01:13:32.939 --> 01:13:35.640
He's very fond of Duncan, especially in your...

1762
01:13:35.640 --> 01:13:36.420
David Dyks?

1763
01:13:36.479 --> 01:13:37.439
So you're...

1764
01:13:37.439 --> 01:13:38.159
I haven't answered yet.

1765
01:13:38.939 --> 01:13:39.359
What did I say?

1766
01:13:39.420 --> 01:13:41.699
I think I was going to marry Benton because he's good at taking

1767
01:13:41.699 --> 01:13:42.180
orders.

1768
01:13:45.300 --> 01:13:48.359
I'm going to...

1769
01:13:49.560 --> 01:13:53.760
Well, you know, like I actually think Mike Yates ends up quite

1770
01:13:53.760 --> 01:13:55.979
good in quite good plays. terrific.

1771
01:13:56.100 --> 01:13:58.500
And he gets a lot of meaty material and he's really likeable

1772
01:13:58.500 --> 01:14:00.000
inspired. said no to that.

1773
01:14:00.060 --> 01:14:03.479
Yeah, I really like him in...

1774
01:14:03.539 --> 01:14:04.920
He's fantastic in Spiders.

1775
01:14:04.979 --> 01:14:11.880
So I am going to snog him, which means you're avoiding...

1776
01:14:11.880 --> 01:14:12.960
I'm avoiding the brigadier.

1777
01:14:13.020 --> 01:14:16.380
Wow. weirdly, I'm almost with Nathan.

1778
01:14:16.439 --> 01:14:18.899
I'd have to avoid the brigadier just because I never know what I'm

1779
01:14:18.899 --> 01:14:19.380
going to get next.

1780
01:14:19.439 --> 01:14:21.600
Well, he's so good in some.

1781
01:14:21.720 --> 01:14:22.619
I said compremise.

1782
01:14:22.680 --> 01:14:23.699
I thought we were going to dance.

1783
01:14:23.760 --> 01:14:25.020
We are.

1784
01:14:25.079 --> 01:14:27.720
I am going to a sitcom, but I'm going to...

1785
01:14:27.779 --> 01:14:28.739
He's always coming back.

1786
01:14:28.800 --> 01:14:31.020
Like, you know, all these units soldiers are dying and he's having

1787
01:14:31.020 --> 01:14:34.020
to organise funerals, as I mentioned before, but you know, he

1788
01:14:34.020 --> 01:14:35.399
comes home at the end of the day.

1789
01:14:37.020 --> 01:14:39.060
So you'd avoid the brig?

1790
01:14:39.119 --> 01:14:40.439
No, I was saying that.

1791
01:14:40.500 --> 01:14:43.079
I'm just saying I don't know that I'd marry him because I don't

1792
01:14:43.079 --> 01:14:46.619
think it would, it would kind of work out quite as well as we all

1793
01:14:46.619 --> 01:14:47.159
think it would.

1794
01:14:47.220 --> 01:14:48.239
I think it's more of this one.

1795
01:14:48.300 --> 01:14:49.319
The cast of friends.

1796
01:14:49.319 --> 01:14:52.380
And you're sitting around just thinking, oh, which one's going to

1797
01:14:52.380 --> 01:14:55.439
die 1st because the only reason you're all together sitting in

1798
01:14:55.439 --> 01:14:58.380
that idiot cafe is because no one else could possibly stand you.

1799
01:14:58.500 --> 01:15:01.920
It's why you're together every single bloody episode in the same

1800
01:15:01.920 --> 01:15:02.159
room.

1801
01:15:02.220 --> 01:15:04.199
No, they don't have any other friends, do they?

1802
01:15:04.260 --> 01:15:05.760
Who would I be in that one?

1803
01:15:05.819 --> 01:15:10.020
I think I'd be Phoebe's smelly cat in that one.

1804
01:15:10.020 --> 01:15:11.640
Sitting on the edge.

1805
01:15:11.699 --> 01:15:14.399
No, that, that, I don't really want any of them.

1806
01:15:14.460 --> 01:15:15.899
Thank you.

1807
01:15:15.960 --> 01:15:16.500
Okay.

1808
01:15:16.560 --> 01:15:19.920
Avoid, avoid, avoid, avoid.

1809
01:15:19.979 --> 01:15:22.140
Okay, we haven't discussed Roger Delgado.

1810
01:15:22.199 --> 01:15:24.300
Well, you'd marry the master?

1811
01:15:24.300 --> 01:15:25.859
I think he's just amazing.

1812
01:15:25.920 --> 01:15:30.420
Yeah, he is, even though he is given the full gamut of wonderful

1813
01:15:30.420 --> 01:15:32.939
scripts right through to absolute Drek.

1814
01:15:33.000 --> 01:15:37.920
He never adjusts his performance to match the material.

1815
01:15:37.979 --> 01:15:42.000
It is always the same excellent performance all the way through

1816
01:15:42.000 --> 01:15:42.659
his day stories.

1817
01:15:42.779 --> 01:15:47.159
I think there's, you know, that hilarious moment in Clause of Axos

1818
01:15:47.159 --> 01:15:50.159
when you realise he's actually much more polite and likeable than

1819
01:15:50.159 --> 01:15:50.819
the doctor.

1820
01:15:51.239 --> 01:15:54.180
Because, you know, he really is, isn't he?

1821
01:15:54.300 --> 01:15:55.020
He's wonderful.

1822
01:15:55.079 --> 01:15:57.000
He's so charming and suave.

1823
01:15:57.060 --> 01:16:01.739
I think, you know, There's a sense in which the character's a bit

1824
01:16:01.739 --> 01:16:06.300
of a lazy plot device and the same things constantly happen.

1825
01:16:06.359 --> 01:16:09.659
He teams up with aliens and then it all goes horribly wrong and

1826
01:16:09.659 --> 01:16:11.399
you know, the doctor has to help him out or whatever.

1827
01:16:11.460 --> 01:16:16.020
And you don't need a complex motivation for anyone because it's

1828
01:16:16.020 --> 01:16:18.000
the master, he's evil and, you know.

1829
01:16:18.060 --> 01:16:22.500
And the big, the big telltale thing, and again, this is probably a

1830
01:16:22.500 --> 01:16:27.060
sander for thing, where there's a sort of attempt at moral

1831
01:16:27.060 --> 01:16:29.460
complexity in Doctor Who and the Silurians.

1832
01:16:29.520 --> 01:16:32.760
But once you bring the master in a couple of years later for the

1833
01:16:32.760 --> 01:16:35.520
sea devils, that all just goes out the window because of the

1834
01:16:35.520 --> 01:16:39.000
Masters E Vol and we, you know, know why he's behaving the way he

1835
01:16:39.000 --> 01:16:39.180
does.

1836
01:16:39.300 --> 01:16:43.020
So he's he's a lazy plot device.

1837
01:16:43.079 --> 01:16:45.180
And of course, I think he's been great in the new series.

1838
01:16:45.239 --> 01:16:46.800
I'm not a fan of Ainley at all.

1839
01:16:46.859 --> 01:16:47.699
Do you know what I mean?

1840
01:16:47.760 --> 01:16:50.760
I think that there's no point in bringing him back in 98?

1841
01:16:51.119 --> 01:16:53.460
Has it ever worked bringing him back?

1842
01:16:53.520 --> 01:16:56.279
I think John Sims master is terrific.

1843
01:16:56.340 --> 01:16:58.199
I was going to talk about Michelle.

1844
01:16:58.260 --> 01:17:01.439
And I think Michelle Gomez is fantastic as the master as well.

1845
01:17:01.500 --> 01:17:04.979
And of course, Derek Jacoby. and Derek Jacoby, yeah. twice.

1846
01:17:05.039 --> 01:17:10.260
But like bringing him back after Delgado in the classic series...

1847
01:17:10.380 --> 01:17:11.520
I love Jeffrey Beavers, though.

1848
01:17:11.579 --> 01:17:13.500
Yeah, Jeffrey Beavers is very good.

1849
01:17:13.560 --> 01:17:14.699
I love him in the audio.

1850
01:17:14.760 --> 01:17:15.840
Yeah, he's back playing it.

1851
01:17:15.899 --> 01:17:16.260
Great voice.

1852
01:17:16.319 --> 01:17:16.800
Yeah.

1853
01:17:16.859 --> 01:17:18.479
Well, he's really excellent in the audio.

1854
01:17:18.539 --> 01:17:21.060
He's especially excellent opposite Tom Louise James.

1855
01:17:21.119 --> 01:17:25.020
I've just had him read because he reads a lot.

1856
01:17:25.140 --> 01:17:25.680
To you personally.

1857
01:17:25.739 --> 01:17:27.000
Nathan knows everyone.

1858
01:17:27.060 --> 01:17:30.779
He comes around and just sits on the end of my bed and reads Dr. in

1859
01:17:30.779 --> 01:17:31.439
the doomsday way.

1860
01:17:31.500 --> 01:17:32.880
In the latex drippy mask.

1861
01:17:32.939 --> 01:17:33.899
Yeah, mostly.

1862
01:17:33.899 --> 01:17:34.800
Yeah, yeah.

1863
01:17:34.859 --> 01:17:36.119
But what are you wearing?

1864
01:17:36.239 --> 01:17:40.920
Sometimes you just climb inside a grandfather clock, don't you?

1865
01:17:40.979 --> 01:17:43.439
Sometimes get him to dress like Michelle Gomez.

1866
01:17:44.159 --> 01:17:47.520
I thought you might dress up as a council casio.

1867
01:17:47.760 --> 01:17:49.739
Worship flu.

1868
01:17:49.800 --> 01:17:50.579
I'm Luvic.

1869
01:17:51.539 --> 01:17:55.739
So, no, because he reads, he reads a lot of the audiobooks of the

1870
01:17:55.739 --> 01:17:59.159
target normalisations. and he's got a lovely voice and he does a

1871
01:17:59.159 --> 01:17:59.460
great job.

1872
01:17:59.520 --> 01:18:00.420
So smooth.

1873
01:18:00.539 --> 01:18:01.260
Yeah, yeah.

1874
01:18:01.319 --> 01:18:05.220
But thanks to Delgado, it is, it's Delgado's performance.

1875
01:18:05.279 --> 01:18:06.000
He charming.

1876
01:18:06.060 --> 01:18:07.319
He's really funny.

1877
01:18:07.560 --> 01:18:13.500
He just is, you know, compelling to watch in a way that Pertwe

1878
01:18:13.500 --> 01:18:14.819
himself often isn't.

1879
01:18:14.880 --> 01:18:18.180
You know, I do think he's a great character with all of those

1880
01:18:18.180 --> 01:18:22.739
caveats. caveats, rather than cravat soup.

1881
01:18:22.800 --> 01:18:26.100
He might be dressed simply, but actually, that's the problem for

1882
01:18:26.100 --> 01:18:29.340
me under the classic series master, the Delgado master.

1883
01:18:29.399 --> 01:18:32.279
I agree there is only one other than Mr. Beaver's.

1884
01:18:32.340 --> 01:18:35.640
And it's nice that they, when they did bring him back, firstly

1885
01:18:35.640 --> 01:18:37.500
they brought him back emaciated and kept.

1886
01:18:37.560 --> 01:18:39.180
I would like 2 of him to have stayed that way, actually.

1887
01:18:39.239 --> 01:18:43.979
Um, we didn't we didn't really need good old Tony Ainley, and I

1888
01:18:43.979 --> 01:18:46.079
love him as dreamist, but I don't think we needed his master.

1889
01:18:46.199 --> 01:18:49.199
It's a sad thing, or it's a disappointing thing, which is probably

1890
01:18:49.199 --> 01:18:52.380
the worst criticism you can make about anyone in life, the D

1891
01:18:52.380 --> 01:18:52.739
word.

1892
01:18:52.800 --> 01:18:57.960
I don't think he's given material mostly to match what he can do.

1893
01:18:58.020 --> 01:19:00.180
I really like him in terror of the autons.

1894
01:19:00.239 --> 01:19:01.500
He's terrific and he's funny.

1895
01:19:01.560 --> 01:19:03.899
I actually really like him in the demons, but again, we've got

1896
01:19:03.899 --> 01:19:06.539
that sense, Todd said, of this master fatigue.

1897
01:19:06.600 --> 01:19:09.180
So by the end of his time, there we go again.

1898
01:19:09.239 --> 01:19:12.239
Um, I mean, you can see that Roger was also feeling a little bit

1899
01:19:12.239 --> 01:19:13.380
awkward with it.

1900
01:19:13.439 --> 01:19:16.739
I felt that there was a certain sense of him thinking, well, how

1901
01:19:16.739 --> 01:19:17.760
do I make this work?

1902
01:19:17.880 --> 01:19:19.739
It's kind of a bit difficult to just do.

1903
01:19:19.800 --> 01:19:21.180
Shall I just ramp it up a little bit more?

1904
01:19:21.239 --> 01:19:22.619
That's really the only place I can go.

1905
01:19:22.680 --> 01:19:24.840
But as far as threatening.

1906
01:19:24.899 --> 01:19:28.140
He's about as threatening as a flaming Frangelico with a toasting

1907
01:19:28.140 --> 01:19:29.460
marshmallow in the middle of it.

1908
01:19:29.520 --> 01:19:31.859
It's not, I never feel really bothered by him.

1909
01:19:31.920 --> 01:19:32.579
And yes, you're right.

1910
01:19:32.640 --> 01:19:34.680
I actually came to like him more than the doctor in these last

1911
01:19:34.680 --> 01:19:35.159
days.

1912
01:19:35.399 --> 01:19:36.720
Well, that's the danger you see.

1913
01:19:36.840 --> 01:19:39.539
I think that that's the danger that the master poses, and it's

1914
01:19:39.539 --> 01:19:43.800
explicitly the danger that John Sims master poses in sound of

1915
01:19:43.800 --> 01:19:47.220
drums, is what do we know about Time Lords?

1916
01:19:47.279 --> 01:19:51.300
Well, what we know is they are the star of Doctor Who.

1917
01:19:51.359 --> 01:19:55.920
And so the thread is that he becomes the star of Doctor Who.

1918
01:19:55.979 --> 01:19:57.600
And it's explicitly there later.

1919
01:19:57.659 --> 01:20:04.920
But here, you know, in season 8 and season 9, he does sort of

1920
01:20:04.920 --> 01:20:08.279
threatened to take over the show because he's so fun and so

1921
01:20:08.279 --> 01:20:09.000
compelling to watch.

1922
01:20:09.060 --> 01:20:10.560
And there are stories.

1923
01:20:10.560 --> 01:20:16.800
But there are stories of Pertuid being annoyed at all of the

1924
01:20:16.800 --> 01:20:20.819
billing that Delgado's getting in the pre-publicity for season

1925
01:20:20.819 --> 01:20:21.359
eight.

1926
01:20:21.600 --> 01:20:25.319
So there is a real sense in which he threatens to take over the

1927
01:20:25.319 --> 01:20:25.560
show.

1928
01:20:25.619 --> 01:20:27.180
Would you be annoyed?

1929
01:20:27.239 --> 01:20:31.079
Well, maybe, maybe, but Pertwe's vulnerability kind of, you know

1930
01:20:31.079 --> 01:20:35.220
speaks in and of itself and it's kind of well known now, so...

1931
01:20:35.699 --> 01:20:38.640
But it's kind of what happened to a lot of a lot of the Doctor Who

1932
01:20:38.640 --> 01:20:44.100
companion actresses, especially, say, Carolyn Ford, and yeah

1933
01:20:44.100 --> 01:20:48.659
Carolyn John, who were promised these really interesting complex

1934
01:20:48.659 --> 01:20:52.020
characters, but then that doesn't actually happen in the series.

1935
01:20:52.199 --> 01:20:56.220
I do understand pertly getting a bit annoyed about that.

1936
01:20:56.279 --> 01:21:00.479
I think what mitigated that for him was that Roger Delgado was

1937
01:21:00.479 --> 01:21:04.439
already a friend of his and, of course, Roger Delgado, the man by

1938
01:21:04.439 --> 01:21:08.579
all reports was just this amazingly warm, giving, friendly actor.

1939
01:21:08.640 --> 01:21:11.939
It's a bit like later on we're getting ahead of ourselves, but Tom

1940
01:21:11.939 --> 01:21:16.859
Baker hated working with K9 because it ate into studio production

1941
01:21:16.859 --> 01:21:17.220
time.

1942
01:21:17.279 --> 01:21:19.439
It was hard to do 2 shots, et cetera, et cetera.

1943
01:21:19.500 --> 01:21:20.880
But he loved John Leeson.

1944
01:21:20.939 --> 01:21:27.420
And so he put up with the aggravation of the tin dog because he

1945
01:21:27.420 --> 01:21:28.859
really liked his costar.

1946
01:21:28.920 --> 01:21:31.800
And I think that's possibly the case for Pertwe as well.

1947
01:21:31.859 --> 01:21:34.079
He may not have liked sharing the screen, but if he was going to

1948
01:21:34.079 --> 01:21:34.800
share the screen.

1949
01:21:34.859 --> 01:21:39.180
He's this lovely actor whom I've worked with before and whom I

1950
01:21:39.180 --> 01:21:40.079
think is absolutely wonderful.

1951
01:21:40.140 --> 01:21:42.239
You should have played him like Muffy, shouldn't he?

1952
01:21:42.359 --> 01:21:45.420
In Battlestog, Galactica, obviously, is.

1953
01:21:45.420 --> 01:21:49.260
Who was a man in a dog in a furry dog suit with a metal dog

1954
01:21:49.260 --> 01:21:49.739
collar?

1955
01:21:49.800 --> 01:21:50.100
remember that?

1956
01:21:50.760 --> 01:21:54.779
There was actually some talk of bringing Muffy back in some way

1957
01:21:54.779 --> 01:21:57.539
shape, or form in the reboot of Galactica.

1958
01:21:57.600 --> 01:22:01.199
Actually, I think you do see a dog in the background of a shot, a

1959
01:22:01.199 --> 01:22:05.699
proper dog in the Battlestar Galactica pilot with the with the

1960
01:22:05.699 --> 01:22:08.579
child, because there's a child in there as well who has a minor

1961
01:22:08.579 --> 01:22:10.739
role in the Battlestar pilot which didn't make it to the series

1962
01:22:10.739 --> 01:22:12.180
and that was going to be the new boxy.

1963
01:22:12.420 --> 01:22:14.880
So Snob Mary avoids.

1964
01:22:14.939 --> 01:22:15.420
Oh god.

1965
01:22:15.479 --> 01:22:16.260
The master.

1966
01:22:16.319 --> 01:22:18.119
Omega.

1967
01:22:18.180 --> 01:22:19.380
Zar.

1968
01:22:19.500 --> 01:22:22.140
Azal is so terrible.

1969
01:22:22.859 --> 01:22:26.100
And those legs, you know, like I said it before.

1970
01:22:26.100 --> 01:22:27.420
They're not as good as they should be, are they?

1971
01:22:27.479 --> 01:22:30.600
But they're kind of, they've got like, I think he's not meant to

1972
01:22:30.600 --> 01:22:34.859
be wearing tights, but his his legs are all sort of crinkled

1973
01:22:34.859 --> 01:22:36.960
and...

1974
01:22:37.020 --> 01:22:37.439
Yeah, exactly.

1975
01:22:37.500 --> 01:22:38.939
It's a question of grooming and deportment.

1976
01:22:39.000 --> 01:22:42.300
He'd put a cut like a knife through the bedsheets of those hools.

1977
01:22:42.600 --> 01:22:46.619
I have to say that the omega thing is all terribly underrated.

1978
01:22:46.680 --> 01:22:49.800
Like he gets to be king of a universe where he can create whatever

1979
01:22:49.800 --> 01:22:51.119
he wants through the power of thought.

1980
01:22:51.180 --> 01:22:53.159
And all he can do is bitch about it.

1981
01:22:53.340 --> 01:22:55.079
Just shut up.

1982
01:22:55.140 --> 01:22:56.399
Enjoy yourself.

1983
01:22:56.460 --> 01:22:57.239
You know what?

1984
01:22:57.300 --> 01:23:01.500
I'd avoid a Zarve for the obvious cloven hoof. 17 metre tall

1985
01:23:01.500 --> 01:23:02.039
reasons.

1986
01:23:02.100 --> 01:23:07.260
I'd snog Roger, because look, you can't you can't trust the master

1987
01:23:07.260 --> 01:23:08.279
to marry him.

1988
01:23:08.340 --> 01:23:08.819
You just can't.

1989
01:23:08.939 --> 01:23:12.779
So I'd marry Omega because what he really, really needs is an

1990
01:23:12.779 --> 01:23:16.319
interior decorator to say, look, okay, you can come drop

1991
01:23:16.319 --> 01:23:16.680
anything.

1992
01:23:16.739 --> 01:23:18.060
Give me an ottoman over here.

1993
01:23:18.119 --> 01:23:21.659
Give me a give me a storage chest over there, put an office here.

1994
01:23:21.720 --> 01:23:24.600
Look, you've got so much space you can do with this stuff.

1995
01:23:24.659 --> 01:23:28.319
It should be mentioned that my reality TV guilty pleasure is home

1996
01:23:28.319 --> 01:23:29.520
renovation programs.

1997
01:23:29.579 --> 01:23:32.159
Um, so maybe that's where I'm coming from.

1998
01:23:32.220 --> 01:23:35.819
But yeah, I think I'd marry Omega because obviously he needs a

1999
01:23:35.819 --> 01:23:39.000
brain to use his powers to build a nice place.

2000
01:23:39.060 --> 01:23:41.399
Yeah, you know, if you're saying, forget this domination.

2001
01:23:41.460 --> 01:23:42.899
Let's have a lovely mansion.

2002
01:23:42.960 --> 01:23:43.560
Lovely things.

2003
01:23:43.560 --> 01:23:44.399
Lovely things.

2004
01:23:44.460 --> 01:23:47.340
Just surround yourself with lovely things, Omega, and you'll

2005
01:23:47.340 --> 01:23:49.319
forget about this emptiness of existence.

2006
01:23:49.439 --> 01:23:52.560
That's it, a giant Olympic pool full of vodka.

2007
01:23:52.619 --> 01:23:54.659
Just whip it up, Omega darling.

2008
01:23:54.720 --> 01:23:56.220
So speaking of lovely things.

2009
01:23:56.279 --> 01:23:58.619
Oh, have I done my strog?

2010
01:23:58.680 --> 01:24:00.479
You're just going to avoid it, so honestly.

2011
01:24:00.479 --> 01:24:02.279
I just haven't asked.

2012
01:24:02.340 --> 01:24:04.560
I think the rest of us avoided it actually. click it in.

2013
01:24:04.619 --> 01:24:09.000
Yeah, I think we'd end up on the set of to the manor born. and try

2014
01:24:09.000 --> 01:24:10.560
to be married to a...

2015
01:24:10.560 --> 01:24:11.039
Who are you married?

2016
01:24:11.760 --> 01:24:15.659
Well, Omega is Penelope Keith. he's having to, you know, having to

2017
01:24:15.659 --> 01:24:17.640
reinvent the palace that he's lost.

2018
01:24:17.640 --> 01:24:23.520
And the master would then have to be Richard DeVere, who's the new

2019
01:24:23.520 --> 01:24:25.979
kid on the block with all the money, but he can't quite seem to

2020
01:24:25.979 --> 01:24:26.460
make it work.

2021
01:24:26.520 --> 01:24:27.539
Can he really?

2022
01:24:27.600 --> 01:24:29.699
And Azar is...

2023
01:24:29.760 --> 01:24:30.420
It's a mother.

2024
01:24:30.479 --> 01:24:35.460
Azal is Mrs. Pulovuski, you know, who buries her fruitcake up in

2025
01:24:35.460 --> 01:24:39.000
the backyard for 3 weeks, but and keeps and keeps seeing fetches

2026
01:24:39.060 --> 01:24:40.199
doesn't she?

2027
01:24:40.260 --> 01:24:42.600
Because she's also mother, what's her name?

2028
01:24:42.659 --> 01:24:43.500
Not Mother Shipton.

2029
01:24:43.560 --> 01:24:44.460
Who was she again?

2030
01:24:44.520 --> 01:24:45.300
And the classic series.

2031
01:24:45.359 --> 01:24:46.500
She's an image of the Fendal.

2032
01:24:46.560 --> 01:24:47.640
Oh, yeah, she's Mar Tyler.

2033
01:24:47.699 --> 01:24:48.840
She's Mart Tyler.

2034
01:24:48.899 --> 01:24:51.779
She's Mark Tyler, yes. in the back in the back.

2035
01:24:51.840 --> 01:24:55.800
Oh, look, you know, probably Snogger, just because, no, I marry

2036
01:24:55.800 --> 01:24:56.340
Omiger.

2037
01:24:56.399 --> 01:24:56.880
Definitely.

2038
01:24:56.939 --> 01:24:57.539
Definitely.

2039
01:24:57.600 --> 01:25:01.020
I wouldn't, wouldn't kiss Roger, because again, I was thinking of

2040
01:25:01.020 --> 01:25:02.159
70s dental hygiene.

2041
01:25:03.479 --> 01:25:07.920
I'm just imagining now, you know, that scene of to the manor born

2042
01:25:07.920 --> 01:25:11.460
where Audrey goes to a supermarket for the...

2043
01:25:11.520 --> 01:25:13.979
I'm just imagining Oh my God.

2044
01:25:14.039 --> 01:25:16.020
Who shall serve me now?

2045
01:25:16.079 --> 01:25:20.340
If no one is coming to remove my helmet, I shall do it myself.

2046
01:25:20.399 --> 01:25:22.920
See, it really works, doesn't it?

2047
01:25:22.979 --> 01:25:23.819
It really works.

2048
01:25:23.880 --> 01:25:26.039
I'm Marjorie in that scenario.

2049
01:25:26.100 --> 01:25:28.439
I mean, you're Marjorie in this scenario.

2050
01:25:28.500 --> 01:25:34.020
We're heading towards Exxon, Spiriton, Helladon.

2051
01:25:34.439 --> 01:25:38.340
Okay, are we talking Pell Minor or Pell Royal?

2052
01:25:38.399 --> 01:25:39.359
You can chew.

2053
01:25:39.420 --> 01:25:41.819
You're looking expectantly at me, Nathan.

2054
01:25:41.880 --> 01:25:45.840
Well, I think I'm going to marry Spiriton because, you know

2055
01:25:45.840 --> 01:25:48.539
they're invisible and if I just let myself go.

2056
01:25:48.600 --> 01:25:49.800
Do you know what I mean?

2057
01:25:49.920 --> 01:25:51.479
After a few decades?

2058
01:25:51.539 --> 01:25:53.880
Like what are they going to complain about?

2059
01:25:53.939 --> 01:25:54.779
Do you know what I mean?

2060
01:25:54.840 --> 01:25:57.840
Like West is not even visible and by the way, why aren't you

2061
01:25:57.840 --> 01:25:58.560
wearing some clones?

2062
01:25:58.680 --> 01:26:01.739
So that's what I would marry.

2063
01:26:01.800 --> 01:26:05.640
Paladon, I think a quick snog with David Troughton.

2064
01:26:05.699 --> 01:26:07.199
Not the first.

2065
01:26:07.260 --> 01:26:09.300
Well, no, and I can think worse things.

2066
01:26:09.420 --> 01:26:13.920
And Excellon will obviously avoid because like my laptop's not

2067
01:26:13.920 --> 01:26:16.800
going to work and the Apple Watch isn't going to work and like the

2068
01:26:16.800 --> 01:26:18.239
whole place is just a complete washout.

2069
01:26:18.659 --> 01:26:22.260
I think I'd marry King Peladin.

2070
01:26:22.800 --> 01:26:26.340
Or a peloton.

2071
01:26:26.399 --> 01:26:27.840
I'd even marry Queens Valeria.

2072
01:26:27.899 --> 01:26:29.159
The lira.

2073
01:26:29.220 --> 01:26:29.880
Lira?

2074
01:26:29.880 --> 01:26:30.420
Lira?

2075
01:26:30.479 --> 01:26:31.260
I'm watching it for her.

2076
01:26:32.640 --> 01:26:35.039
If she wants the money back.

2077
01:26:35.220 --> 01:26:39.239
So I think I'd have to Snogwester.

2078
01:26:39.300 --> 01:26:41.939
Just because, you know, it'd be fun to try and find it on an

2079
01:26:41.939 --> 01:26:43.020
invisible being.

2080
01:26:43.319 --> 01:26:47.880
And so I'd avoid an excellent because I am, when it comes to my

2081
01:26:47.880 --> 01:26:51.659
hands, I don't like my hands, you know, if I'm if I'm working on

2082
01:26:51.659 --> 01:26:53.640
something that makes my hands dirty, that's fine at the time, but

2083
01:26:53.640 --> 01:26:55.020
I have to clean them against right away.

2084
01:26:55.079 --> 01:26:58.800
So if I'm living in a China clay quarry, that's never going to

2085
01:26:58.800 --> 01:26:58.979
work.

2086
01:26:59.039 --> 01:27:03.000
So yeah, I'd have, I'd have to, as much as I love Bala, I think

2087
01:27:03.000 --> 01:27:03.539
he's wonderful.

2088
01:27:03.600 --> 01:27:05.039
I think we need to stay as just friends.

2089
01:27:05.460 --> 01:27:11.279
Well, I'm going to excellent to snorg, wow, and just just to be

2090
01:27:11.279 --> 01:27:14.640
shown the ruins of the great city and everything and get his

2091
01:27:14.640 --> 01:27:17.520
personal story about the events that what happened and who he

2092
01:27:17.520 --> 01:27:17.880
met.

2093
01:27:17.939 --> 01:27:21.180
I will be marrying Peladon.

2094
01:27:21.239 --> 01:27:23.520
Well, one of the royals anyway, because I'm not going to be one of

2095
01:27:23.520 --> 01:27:24.000
the minors.

2096
01:27:24.000 --> 01:27:26.220
And I'm a boarding spirit.

2097
01:27:26.279 --> 01:27:28.439
Well, you know exactly what.

2098
01:27:28.439 --> 01:27:33.180
Because they drag you away when you're knocked out and pull goo on

2099
01:27:33.180 --> 01:27:33.539
your arm.

2100
01:27:33.600 --> 01:27:37.020
So there's poisonous plants, there's ice fishes.

2101
01:27:37.079 --> 01:27:40.920
There's invisible people and I hate that story, therefore I'm

2102
01:27:40.920 --> 01:27:41.279
avoiding it.

2103
01:27:41.340 --> 01:27:43.739
And there's the BBC sound record as well.

2104
01:27:43.800 --> 01:27:45.779
I just keep going round and around and around.

2105
01:27:45.840 --> 01:27:47.520
I want that to be the soundtrack to my life.

2106
01:27:48.239 --> 01:27:50.939
I don't know that it isn't, really.

2107
01:27:50.939 --> 01:27:55.680
Well, I'm sitting here in the backyard of a house in Surbiton up

2108
01:27:55.680 --> 01:28:01.619
to my knees in Chookpoo, digging away with my lovely wife, King

2109
01:28:01.619 --> 01:28:07.020
Peladon. and next door and our lovely and our lovely agador that

2110
01:28:07.020 --> 01:28:09.779
we keep in the back pin because we've turned it.

2111
01:28:09.840 --> 01:28:14.399
We've turned our lovely suburban house into a make as you go farm

2112
01:28:14.399 --> 01:28:18.119
and next door we have Penelope Keith as played by...

2113
01:28:18.119 --> 01:28:24.720
Jenny Laird. yes Yes, she is.

2114
01:28:24.779 --> 01:28:25.380
Yeah, yeah, she is.

2115
01:28:25.439 --> 01:28:25.739
She is.

2116
01:28:25.800 --> 01:28:29.340
And she's married to that invisible guy because Paul Eddington had

2117
01:28:29.340 --> 01:28:30.119
almost nothing to do.

2118
01:28:30.180 --> 01:28:31.680
Yeah, you can.

2119
01:28:31.680 --> 01:28:34.140
Your favourite writer.

2120
01:28:34.199 --> 01:28:35.340
Pop Holmes.

2121
01:28:35.399 --> 01:28:36.239
Bob Holmes.

2122
01:28:36.359 --> 01:28:38.220
Oh, Mac Hulk.

2123
01:28:38.279 --> 01:28:40.079
Oh, okay, yeah, yeah.

2124
01:28:40.140 --> 01:28:42.180
Actually, that's a good show. is really good.

2125
01:28:42.239 --> 01:28:45.000
But I think I have to choose Michael, big holes, with the

2126
01:28:45.000 --> 01:28:48.840
exception of a couple of earlier sort of pre-goes before he was at

2127
01:28:48.840 --> 01:28:49.380
his peak.

2128
01:28:49.439 --> 01:28:51.300
His peak is in the hurt we era.

2129
01:28:51.359 --> 01:28:53.880
He's there every year, always reliable.

2130
01:28:53.880 --> 01:28:55.500
Giant listens every year.

2131
01:28:55.560 --> 01:28:56.699
Giant lizards everywhere.

2132
01:28:56.760 --> 01:28:57.720
Yeah, yeah.

2133
01:28:57.779 --> 01:28:59.819
I like that he gave us pre-gos as well.

2134
01:28:59.819 --> 01:29:00.359
It's huge.

2135
01:29:00.420 --> 01:29:01.680
Yeah, yeah.

2136
01:29:01.739 --> 01:29:04.260
And, you know, even the Pre-Gos are good. faceless one's good.

2137
01:29:04.319 --> 01:29:06.060
Wargame is very good.

2138
01:29:06.420 --> 01:29:09.779
And he even wrote half Ambassadors of Death, really.

2139
01:29:09.899 --> 01:29:13.319
Yeah, after Whittaker was moving to Australia.

2140
01:29:13.380 --> 01:29:18.659
And like so much of the legacy of the Pertsu era is in the novels

2141
01:29:18.659 --> 01:29:19.560
for us.

2142
01:29:19.619 --> 01:29:21.239
That's why we liked it.

2143
01:29:21.300 --> 01:29:23.220
That's why we liked it because they're great.

2144
01:29:23.340 --> 01:29:28.800
And the reason that... is Malcolm Hulk's novelisations are all

2145
01:29:28.800 --> 01:29:29.520
just...

2146
01:29:29.640 --> 01:29:32.220
Terrence's early ones are really good, and Terrence's very last

2147
01:29:32.220 --> 01:29:32.819
novel, is it?

2148
01:29:32.880 --> 01:29:36.300
Terrence's last novelisations was ambassadors of death. you ever

2149
01:29:36.300 --> 01:29:36.539
read?

2150
01:29:36.659 --> 01:29:38.039
It's really good.

2151
01:29:38.100 --> 01:29:39.539
They probably had time.

2152
01:29:39.659 --> 01:29:40.319
Yeah, exactly.

2153
01:29:40.380 --> 01:29:43.020
He's got reinventions. turn out 3 a week anymore.

2154
01:29:43.079 --> 01:29:45.539
Yeah, he'd been doing conventions and the kids had been saying how

2155
01:29:45.539 --> 01:29:47.939
good he was and there's nothing like a bit of praise to get an

2156
01:29:47.939 --> 01:29:48.300
artist.

2157
01:29:48.300 --> 01:29:51.420
Whatever kind of art they do. to put some work in.

2158
01:29:51.600 --> 01:29:53.760
He deserves a great deal of praise for that entire line.

2159
01:29:53.819 --> 01:29:57.600
You know, he's, you know, he's the heart and soul of it, I think.

2160
01:29:57.659 --> 01:30:01.319
But I think that Malcolm Hulk brought something really just extra

2161
01:30:01.319 --> 01:30:06.119
to the table and wasn't afraid to sort of junk the structure of

2162
01:30:06.119 --> 01:30:09.239
the story as we saw it on the screen in order to produce something

2163
01:30:09.239 --> 01:30:13.079
a bit more interesting and just think about Shuey McPherson that

2164
01:30:13.079 --> 01:30:16.739
we talked about at the beginning of the invasion of the dinosaurs

2165
01:30:16.739 --> 01:30:21.000
which is just such a spectacularly interesting and economical way

2166
01:30:21.000 --> 01:30:26.640
of telling the story of what happened to London that caused it to

2167
01:30:26.640 --> 01:30:27.659
become evacuated.

2168
01:30:27.720 --> 01:30:31.199
It's so well done, just told from the point of view of a single

2169
01:30:31.199 --> 01:30:33.300
person who doesn't get a mention on the screen.

2170
01:30:33.359 --> 01:30:34.260
He's not even in it.

2171
01:30:34.500 --> 01:30:36.060
Yeah, yeah.

2172
01:30:36.119 --> 01:30:37.079
So he's he's great.

2173
01:30:37.140 --> 01:30:37.859
I think he's great.

2174
01:30:37.979 --> 01:30:40.979
He also the one who tells that whole chapter of the green death

2175
01:30:40.979 --> 01:30:45.720
from the maggot's point of view, which is, again, just so well

2176
01:30:45.720 --> 01:30:46.020
done.

2177
01:30:46.079 --> 01:30:49.439
Yeah, they're the 2 writers, Bob Holmes and Med Hog. who would be

2178
01:30:49.439 --> 01:30:51.300
the ones I would choose from.

2179
01:30:51.359 --> 01:30:52.439
I'm not going to pick one or the other.

2180
01:30:52.439 --> 01:30:55.020
Is there any overrated writer?

2181
01:30:55.859 --> 01:30:57.060
Well, no, there isn't.

2182
01:30:57.119 --> 01:30:59.880
I mean, I know that Nathan might throw something in just for, you

2183
01:30:59.880 --> 01:31:02.340
know, alacrity and amusement, but we all know that actually he

2184
01:31:02.340 --> 01:31:03.180
really loves everyone.

2185
01:31:03.479 --> 01:31:05.460
Robert Sloman.

2186
01:31:05.699 --> 01:31:09.960
Sloan has a totally undeserved reputation for not being crap.

2187
01:31:12.659 --> 01:31:15.000
Marlena Dietrich sitting here.

2188
01:31:15.000 --> 01:31:16.260
He's not as...

2189
01:31:16.319 --> 01:31:18.060
He's not as good as...

2190
01:31:18.060 --> 01:31:19.619
Oh, come on, Planet of the Spider.

2191
01:31:19.680 --> 01:31:21.359
Yeah, Planet of the Spider is good.

2192
01:31:21.420 --> 01:31:23.340
And then there's Bob Baker and Dave Martin, who are terrible as

2193
01:31:23.340 --> 01:31:23.640
well.

2194
01:31:23.699 --> 01:31:25.859
I don't think that's great ideas.

2195
01:31:25.920 --> 01:31:28.140
They just have a dozen ideas every 3 minutes.

2196
01:31:28.199 --> 01:31:31.739
You want to know who I'm going to say is overrated in the per we

2197
01:31:31.739 --> 01:31:32.039
era?

2198
01:31:32.100 --> 01:31:33.420
Very nation.

2199
01:31:33.479 --> 01:31:34.260
Ouch.

2200
01:31:34.260 --> 01:31:35.819
How could you say that?

2201
01:31:35.880 --> 01:31:37.680
That's tarantulas, isn't it?

2202
01:31:37.800 --> 01:31:43.500
But, you know, he, he, the main reason we got planet is because

2203
01:31:43.500 --> 01:31:48.239
well, is because quite understandably, he said, you're not allowed

2204
01:31:48.239 --> 01:31:49.739
to use my creations without permission.

2205
01:31:49.800 --> 01:31:52.979
It took 2 years for Barry and Terrence, turn around and say, you're

2206
01:31:52.979 --> 01:31:55.079
just feeding us the same stuff as everyone before.

2207
01:31:55.140 --> 01:31:59.039
Prepare a new story and when we'll see in a few weeks, when he

2208
01:31:59.039 --> 01:32:02.579
does prepare a brand new story, it's a bloody corker.

2209
01:32:02.640 --> 01:32:03.960
How much of that is here?

2210
01:32:04.020 --> 01:32:04.560
Is he?

2211
01:32:04.619 --> 01:32:06.359
Let's wait and find out, dear listen.

2212
01:32:06.420 --> 01:32:07.260
That'll be an interesting podcast.

2213
01:32:07.319 --> 01:32:09.239
We know things, don't we?

2214
01:32:09.359 --> 01:32:10.560
Jenny Leaderward.

2215
01:32:10.619 --> 01:32:12.180
I mean, normally so many things in season two.

2216
01:32:12.239 --> 01:32:12.720
Yes, I know.

2217
01:32:12.779 --> 01:32:13.680
We tried to stop you.

2218
01:32:14.100 --> 01:32:17.460
One thing does spring to mind and I think that's the way in which

2219
01:32:17.460 --> 01:32:18.779
Ms. Shore is written out.

2220
01:32:20.220 --> 01:32:23.819
Yeah, it's a way in which she's written out and I think that's a

2221
01:32:23.819 --> 01:32:25.079
creative puzzling choice.

2222
01:32:25.199 --> 01:32:28.380
Um, and I would have liked to have seen some conclusion to that

2223
01:32:28.380 --> 01:32:28.920
character.

2224
01:32:29.039 --> 01:32:31.380
I think that's a good one and I think...

2225
01:32:31.500 --> 01:32:34.619
It is, it's one thing that they go on and get right and that they

2226
01:32:34.619 --> 01:32:37.140
get right for the 1st time because the one thing that you don't

2227
01:32:37.140 --> 01:32:42.119
realise is that up until now for the 1st 6 years of Doctor Who, the

2228
01:32:42.119 --> 01:32:45.420
cast changed once a year or more.

2229
01:32:45.479 --> 01:32:50.640
And now we've had this regular cast, you know, from seasons 8, 9

2230
01:32:50.640 --> 01:32:50.880
and 10.

2231
01:32:51.180 --> 01:32:53.880
You've got the same regular cast all the way through.

2232
01:32:53.939 --> 01:32:57.840
You've got the longest chronologically, I guess, apart from phrase

2233
01:32:57.840 --> 01:33:01.800
perhaps the longest companion, but certainly the longer serving

2234
01:33:01.800 --> 01:33:03.779
creative team and all of that sort of thing.

2235
01:33:03.840 --> 01:33:05.159
The show's remarkably consistent.

2236
01:33:05.220 --> 01:33:09.239
And so they're getting rid of Liz is a big misstep, but she's a

2237
01:33:09.239 --> 01:33:12.720
bit of a casualty of the retooling that they do at the beginning

2238
01:33:12.720 --> 01:33:15.000
of season 8. the right word, yeah.

2239
01:33:15.000 --> 01:33:16.500
It's not entirely puzzling.

2240
01:33:16.560 --> 01:33:18.359
No, it's misogynist.

2241
01:33:18.420 --> 01:33:20.340
Well, I don't know that it's misogynist.

2242
01:33:20.399 --> 01:33:21.720
Well, maybe.

2243
01:33:21.779 --> 01:33:24.840
Like Terrence always likes to tell the story that in a way that

2244
01:33:24.840 --> 01:33:29.220
makes him sound like a sexist idiot, not a huge stretch.

2245
01:33:29.340 --> 01:33:30.000
No, I know.

2246
01:33:30.060 --> 01:33:33.600
But Katie comes in and kind of and rescues that.

2247
01:33:33.600 --> 01:33:35.039
Yeah, that's because she's so charming herself.

2248
01:33:35.520 --> 01:33:38.100
It's something that I recognise as a problem that they fix

2249
01:33:38.100 --> 01:33:41.340
straight away and we go from maybe the worst companion departure

2250
01:33:41.340 --> 01:33:44.880
with Liz to the best companion comparture up till now with the

2251
01:33:44.880 --> 01:33:46.979
green. they might from their mistakes, didn't they?

2252
01:33:47.039 --> 01:33:48.539
So definitely say that at that team.

2253
01:33:49.020 --> 01:33:54.359
I think the puzzling creative choice is the end of season finale

2254
01:33:54.359 --> 01:34:00.840
for eight, nine, 10, and some degree 11, getting Sloman to do it

2255
01:34:00.840 --> 01:34:05.220
ensuring, you know, like you have the Slow man.

2256
01:34:05.939 --> 01:34:10.199
Giving them 6 episodes to kind of fap around in.

2257
01:34:10.260 --> 01:34:17.640
And so every single season ends on this sort of badly paced, badly

2258
01:34:17.640 --> 01:34:23.640
conceived, kind of mess of a story, with, I think, the exception

2259
01:34:23.640 --> 01:34:27.060
of Green Death, which is spectacular, and to some degree, Planet

2260
01:34:27.060 --> 01:34:31.260
of the Spider, which is lifted by Liz and by the whole departure

2261
01:34:31.260 --> 01:34:31.800
thing.

2262
01:34:31.859 --> 01:34:35.640
But I just don't know why they structured the seasons like that

2263
01:34:35.640 --> 01:34:36.000
every year.

2264
01:34:36.060 --> 01:34:37.920
I think mine has to be.

2265
01:34:37.979 --> 01:34:41.819
It's a combination of factors rather than any one decision.

2266
01:34:41.880 --> 01:34:45.840
So in season nine, um, they invited the Bristol boys to write

2267
01:34:45.840 --> 01:34:47.699
again, Bob Baker and Dave Martin.

2268
01:34:47.760 --> 01:34:50.819
Now, the previous season with Bob Baker and Dave Martin, they got

2269
01:34:50.819 --> 01:34:53.819
in Michael Ferguson to direct that one because they've got an

2270
01:34:53.819 --> 01:34:55.739
inexperienced writer, they get an experienced director.

2271
01:34:55.979 --> 01:34:57.899
Next time around.

2272
01:34:57.960 --> 01:35:00.960
They give them the 3 doctors because they're capable of writing

2273
01:35:00.960 --> 01:35:03.300
quite quickly and adapting to certain situations.

2274
01:35:03.359 --> 01:35:06.659
They get Delenny Maine to direct that, who directed the acclaimed

2275
01:35:06.659 --> 01:35:08.100
cursor peladon, the previous year.

2276
01:35:08.159 --> 01:35:12.060
The mutants is really an oddity because they get Christopher Barry

2277
01:35:12.060 --> 01:35:15.960
back, who hasn't directed Doctor Who for many years.

2278
01:35:16.319 --> 01:35:20.699
And so we have a combination of an inexperienced scriptwriting

2279
01:35:20.699 --> 01:35:25.619
team with a very ambitious script and a director who hasn't worked

2280
01:35:25.619 --> 01:35:29.340
under the current Doctor Who production machine before.

2281
01:35:29.399 --> 01:35:32.399
It's a really silly idea to do that.

2282
01:35:32.460 --> 01:35:35.279
I think if they were going to get Christopher Barry, they should

2283
01:35:35.279 --> 01:35:38.640
have given him even something like Dave the Daleks or the Time

2284
01:35:38.640 --> 01:35:41.520
Monster, especially he directed Daleks before.

2285
01:35:41.579 --> 01:35:44.880
And, you know, we did comment that Paul Bernard's direction of the

2286
01:35:44.880 --> 01:35:48.000
Daleks themselves fell a bit flat, whereas his direction of people

2287
01:35:48.000 --> 01:35:48.899
was quite good.

2288
01:35:49.800 --> 01:35:51.720
So swap those around.

2289
01:35:51.779 --> 01:35:54.420
I mean, even if Paul Bernard comes into there, he had a lot of

2290
01:35:54.420 --> 01:35:55.800
visual flair and style.

2291
01:35:55.800 --> 01:35:59.039
And yeah, the mutants doesn't really translate for that.

2292
01:35:59.100 --> 01:36:02.100
And yeah, I think that maybe that's what the problem with the

2293
01:36:02.100 --> 01:36:05.039
mutants boils down to, there's too much inexperience going, oh

2294
01:36:05.039 --> 01:36:08.039
you've got like an inexperienced actor playing a major supporting

2295
01:36:08.039 --> 01:36:08.399
role.

2296
01:36:08.460 --> 01:36:12.720
You've got inexperienced writers, writing a much longer story than

2297
01:36:12.720 --> 01:36:17.699
they'd previously written, and you've got A very experienced

2298
01:36:17.699 --> 01:36:20.819
director, but not experienced under the current ages of Doctor

2299
01:36:20.819 --> 01:36:21.180
Who.

2300
01:36:21.239 --> 01:36:24.600
So that's my puzzling creative choice is the creative, the whole

2301
01:36:24.600 --> 01:36:26.939
creative team for the mutants.

2302
01:36:27.000 --> 01:36:29.460
And perhaps it could have been arranged better.

2303
01:36:29.520 --> 01:36:33.600
Even the ones that don't come across as being wholly successful.

2304
01:36:33.659 --> 01:36:36.840
And it's actually those damaged goods that we get, isn't it?

2305
01:36:36.960 --> 01:36:41.100
Not entirely working, but there is, that just seems to reveal the

2306
01:36:41.100 --> 01:36:45.479
parts that do work and that you get to see when the oil isn't

2307
01:36:45.479 --> 01:36:48.659
quite clicking in with the cogs, that you see how well people are

2308
01:36:48.659 --> 01:36:51.420
performing in the machinery itself, which is probably why I like

2309
01:36:51.420 --> 01:36:52.560
the Robert Sloman stories.

2310
01:36:52.560 --> 01:36:56.640
Because the individual performances stand out, if the whole thing

2311
01:36:56.640 --> 01:36:57.960
is maybe lumbering.

2312
01:36:58.020 --> 01:37:00.239
People put that much extra work.

2313
01:37:00.300 --> 01:37:01.859
I really like time Monster.

2314
01:37:01.920 --> 01:37:03.659
There is many people who do.

2315
01:37:03.720 --> 01:37:06.899
Again, terrible pertry is never that terrible.

2316
01:37:06.960 --> 01:37:09.420
It's enjoying time, monster.

2317
01:37:09.479 --> 01:37:12.899
If we were to take anything away from today's podcasts, it's

2318
01:37:12.899 --> 01:37:13.500
probably it.

2319
01:37:13.500 --> 01:37:16.260
If the listener was thinking, oh, you know, what would I watch of

2320
01:37:16.260 --> 01:37:16.859
these?

2321
01:37:16.920 --> 01:37:19.979
I think you can jump into any of our best or worst and you'll find

2322
01:37:19.979 --> 01:37:21.000
something to enjoy in them.

2323
01:37:21.539 --> 01:37:26.880
Hmm I'm incredibly irritating on these on these yeses or no, these

2324
01:37:26.880 --> 01:37:28.020
binary divisions.

2325
01:37:28.079 --> 01:37:31.020
Because again, if I had to think of something that I thought was

2326
01:37:31.020 --> 01:37:34.380
truly, truly awful, for whatever unsuccessful reason in the per

2327
01:37:34.380 --> 01:37:38.340
wheat era, it would probably be one of the ones that doesn't quite

2328
01:37:38.340 --> 01:37:38.939
float.

2329
01:37:39.000 --> 01:37:43.020
And there's a few to choose from, but I haven't got any off the

2330
01:37:43.020 --> 01:37:43.560
top of my head.

2331
01:37:43.680 --> 01:37:47.760
How about the cravat he chooses to wear in the paladon?

2332
01:37:47.819 --> 01:37:49.380
Yes, no, it's a monstrous thing.

2333
01:37:49.439 --> 01:37:50.100
I agree.

2334
01:37:50.159 --> 01:37:51.420
Monstrous thing.

2335
01:37:51.479 --> 01:37:52.140
It's a cravat.

2336
01:37:52.199 --> 01:37:52.800
Thank you, Nathan.

2337
01:37:53.159 --> 01:37:54.720
Always.

2338
01:37:54.779 --> 01:37:56.640
Although it's a good choice, me think.

2339
01:37:56.699 --> 01:37:57.840
It's a bit Jason King.

2340
01:37:58.560 --> 01:37:59.399
Love that.

2341
01:37:59.460 --> 01:38:01.680
Be negative about something.

2342
01:38:01.739 --> 01:38:05.399
We're about to go into the Hall of Fame board, but I realised that

2343
01:38:05.399 --> 01:38:07.739
perhaps there's one other question I should ask.

2344
01:38:07.800 --> 01:38:08.819
What is the most overrated?

2345
01:38:08.819 --> 01:38:09.840
Inferno.

2346
01:38:09.899 --> 01:38:10.859
The 5 doctors.

2347
01:38:11.039 --> 01:38:14.880
Yeah, oh, the demons. between the demons and the infam.

2348
01:38:14.939 --> 01:38:16.439
I'm serious about the 5 doctors too.

2349
01:38:16.500 --> 01:38:18.060
I'd agree with the demons.

2350
01:38:18.119 --> 01:38:19.199
Really?

2351
01:38:19.260 --> 01:38:19.680
Yeah.

2352
01:38:19.739 --> 01:38:21.420
Gosh, it's such atmosphere.

2353
01:38:21.479 --> 01:38:24.779
You know, again, I like it, but I don't think it's any better.

2354
01:38:24.840 --> 01:38:25.380
You know what?

2355
01:38:25.380 --> 01:38:28.260
I don't, I don't, it's the best season 8 story, let alone the

2356
01:38:28.260 --> 01:38:29.039
best...

2357
01:38:29.039 --> 01:38:30.300
You are watching it at the end of the season.

2358
01:38:30.359 --> 01:38:32.159
Do what I did and just watch it out of seats.

2359
01:38:32.220 --> 01:38:34.500
That's not the point.

2360
01:38:34.619 --> 01:38:36.779
That's kind of our shtick.

2361
01:38:36.899 --> 01:38:40.619
See, I see, I think that's the whole point about that story is

2362
01:38:40.619 --> 01:38:43.859
that if you were trying to get somebody to watch the poetry year

2363
01:38:43.859 --> 01:38:47.039
and say this is a bit representative, you've got the master, you've

2364
01:38:47.039 --> 01:38:51.060
got unit, you've got good friend writing it, it works quite well

2365
01:38:51.060 --> 01:38:53.760
by itself, but when you start to see it in context, you can see

2366
01:38:53.760 --> 01:38:54.600
all of its flaws.

2367
01:38:54.659 --> 01:38:55.979
So, in isolation.

2368
01:38:56.039 --> 01:38:57.479
I think it comes across benefit and it does.

2369
01:38:57.720 --> 01:39:01.260
What if we swapped terror of the autons and demons as to 1st and

2370
01:39:01.260 --> 01:39:05.399
last of that season and just changed the introductory moments, I

2371
01:39:05.399 --> 01:39:06.659
think, you know, different opinions.

2372
01:39:06.720 --> 01:39:07.500
Maybe.

2373
01:39:07.560 --> 01:39:08.399
Maybe, maybe.

2374
01:39:08.579 --> 01:39:10.859
Okay, Hall of Fame.

2375
01:39:10.920 --> 01:39:12.899
Who are you going to nominate for the Hall of Fame Award?

2376
01:39:13.020 --> 01:39:14.039
Katie Manning.

2377
01:39:14.699 --> 01:39:16.260
Absolutely.

2378
01:39:16.319 --> 01:39:18.180
I just think she's unbelievably good.

2379
01:39:18.239 --> 01:39:19.920
I love watching her.

2380
01:39:19.979 --> 01:39:22.800
You know, there are times when I'm bored by poetry, but whenever

2381
01:39:22.800 --> 01:39:26.699
she's on the screen, I'm just riveted by her, I think the

2382
01:39:26.699 --> 01:39:28.979
performance is lovely and human and funny.

2383
01:39:29.039 --> 01:39:33.720
She goes from being competent to being vulnerable very quickly.

2384
01:39:33.779 --> 01:39:37.680
She's frightened and upset sometimes, but never massively

2385
01:39:37.680 --> 01:39:41.220
distressed or anything, and she's just sort of plucky and funny

2386
01:39:41.220 --> 01:39:46.380
and loveable, and then she's just gone on to be so, so tremendous

2387
01:39:46.380 --> 01:39:49.920
and, and when she comes back in the death of the doctor for Sarah

2388
01:39:49.920 --> 01:39:51.060
Jane adventures.

2389
01:39:51.119 --> 01:39:55.380
You know, just the idea that she's gone on to have a lovely life

2390
01:39:55.380 --> 01:39:59.100
and be an activist and continue to be married to Cliff and all of

2391
01:39:59.100 --> 01:40:02.279
those things, be a lovely grandmother and mother and stuff.

2392
01:40:02.340 --> 01:40:06.000
I just think she is an absolute breakout companion.

2393
01:40:06.060 --> 01:40:06.899
Do you know what I mean?

2394
01:40:06.960 --> 01:40:11.159
Maybe the best since Barbara, a terrific, terrific performance.

2395
01:40:11.220 --> 01:40:13.260
Uh, you know, I love her to death.

2396
01:40:13.319 --> 01:40:14.939
I think she rescues the poetry era.

2397
01:40:15.000 --> 01:40:18.180
Well, I'm going to nominate behind the scenes, and it has to be

2398
01:40:18.180 --> 01:40:23.460
baronets and turn sticks, who, Baronets, obviously, with his

2399
01:40:23.460 --> 01:40:29.039
casting of Katie, of Roger, of Liz, of Tom, and the fact that, you

2400
01:40:29.039 --> 01:40:30.359
know, he Richard Franklin.

2401
01:40:30.420 --> 01:40:32.399
And Richard Franklin.

2402
01:40:32.460 --> 01:40:33.239
And Richard Frank.

2403
01:40:33.300 --> 01:40:35.880
The fact that, you know, he recognises the show needs to change

2404
01:40:35.880 --> 01:40:41.880
tack in season 8 and and Terrence is the one who, of course, is in

2405
01:40:41.880 --> 01:40:45.239
charge of, you know, the whole writing team and the reboot, the

2406
01:40:45.239 --> 01:40:49.619
2nd reboot and and, you know, making the show familiar to the

2407
01:40:49.619 --> 01:40:52.260
audiences with all of his little continuity touches with the time

2408
01:40:52.260 --> 01:40:55.020
lodge and the TARDIS and going back a few stories.

2409
01:40:55.079 --> 01:40:58.199
And I don't think there's any other television shows in the 70s

2410
01:40:58.199 --> 01:41:01.859
whether it be British or American, that do that sort of little

2411
01:41:01.859 --> 01:41:07.079
continuity, which gets the audience in and the familiarity, that

2412
01:41:07.079 --> 01:41:10.439
it breeds, and people become fans of the show.

2413
01:41:10.500 --> 01:41:16.020
And I think without their vision and his writing team, you know, he

2414
01:41:16.020 --> 01:41:19.319
cultivates all these writers who can at least deliver stories of a

2415
01:41:19.319 --> 01:41:22.619
good standard, the show would have folded at the end of season 8.

2416
01:41:22.680 --> 01:41:26.220
And so for me, you know, what those 2 deliver behind the scenes

2417
01:41:26.220 --> 01:41:30.060
allows people like Katie Manning to come in and do what she does

2418
01:41:30.060 --> 01:41:32.579
with Joe. So they're my nomination.

2419
01:41:32.640 --> 01:41:34.199
Dixon lets.

2420
01:41:34.260 --> 01:41:35.640
Isn't that a detective show?

2421
01:41:35.699 --> 01:41:37.500
Yeah, the detective show on the holiday?

2422
01:41:37.560 --> 01:41:39.899
on the...

2423
01:41:40.979 --> 01:41:44.340
I'm going to go a bit out on that field here.

2424
01:41:44.399 --> 01:41:46.739
And Jenny Ladd.

2425
01:41:47.220 --> 01:41:51.420
I previously criticised them, but I'm gonna put them in the Hall

2426
01:41:51.420 --> 01:41:51.899
of Fame.

2427
01:41:51.960 --> 01:41:53.880
Bob Baker and Dave Martin.

2428
01:41:53.939 --> 01:41:54.180
Wow.

2429
01:41:55.319 --> 01:42:03.119
Because despite certainly problems with their scripts, despite

2430
01:42:03.119 --> 01:42:06.479
sometimes their stories don't quite make sense or aren't made very

2431
01:42:06.479 --> 01:42:06.779
well.

2432
01:42:06.840 --> 01:42:12.899
They represent the new blood that's coming into Doctor Who at this

2433
01:42:12.899 --> 01:42:13.079
time.

2434
01:42:13.140 --> 01:42:16.140
They had never worked on the show before, they'd never worked in

2435
01:42:16.140 --> 01:42:16.800
TV before.

2436
01:42:16.859 --> 01:42:19.800
They were exactly what Barry and Terence were looking for in that

2437
01:42:19.800 --> 01:42:24.359
their ideas were unfettered by notions of what was even possible

2438
01:42:25.140 --> 01:42:26.939
advisable.

2439
01:42:27.060 --> 01:42:29.939
And sometimes those things didn't make it a screen.

2440
01:42:29.939 --> 01:42:31.260
And sometimes they did.

2441
01:42:31.319 --> 01:42:33.479
So contemporaneous, aren't they?

2442
01:42:33.539 --> 01:42:34.619
They are so 1970.

2443
01:42:34.619 --> 01:42:37.260
Yeah, 5 when they're actually writing 72.

2444
01:42:37.380 --> 01:42:37.859
Yeah.

2445
01:42:37.920 --> 01:42:42.720
So, yeah, despite the fact that they are not, I, you know, I would

2446
01:42:42.720 --> 01:42:45.960
say they've got a hit rate of about 60% with their ideas, which

2447
01:42:45.960 --> 01:42:47.520
isn't a terribly high hit rate.

2448
01:42:47.579 --> 01:42:51.779
They really represent the spirit of endeavour, which Doctor Who

2449
01:42:51.779 --> 01:42:52.560
needed at this point.

2450
01:42:52.560 --> 01:42:58.619
Because it needed to constantly be inventing and changing.

2451
01:42:58.619 --> 01:43:02.939
And for whatever else they did, those two, I think, other writers

2452
01:43:02.939 --> 01:43:04.619
who represent that ideal the most.

2453
01:43:04.680 --> 01:43:06.779
The Bob Baker and Dave Martin.

2454
01:43:06.840 --> 01:43:11.819
I mean, you know, my 1st thoughts jump to the secondary players or

2455
01:43:11.819 --> 01:43:14.279
tertiary players who really make the story shine.

2456
01:43:14.340 --> 01:43:15.659
So again, because it's season 11.

2457
01:43:15.840 --> 01:43:17.819
It's Arnold Yarrow and Kevin Lindsay.

2458
01:43:17.880 --> 01:43:20.640
I wouldn't you love to see a reboot of the odd couple with those

2459
01:43:20.640 --> 01:43:20.939
two?

2460
01:43:21.060 --> 01:43:25.020
in the principal roles, says Balal and Chocha, the odd couple.

2461
01:43:25.079 --> 01:43:27.600
But there has to be...

2462
01:43:27.600 --> 01:43:30.960
I love Billell, and I really wish he'd been a companion, Hal, as

2463
01:43:30.960 --> 01:43:31.199
well.

2464
01:43:31.260 --> 01:43:33.899
I would have loved to have seen Holly Archer and Bilao, maybe just

2465
01:43:33.899 --> 01:43:34.619
one or 2 stories.

2466
01:43:34.680 --> 01:43:35.340
I'm serious about that.

2467
01:43:35.399 --> 01:43:39.840
But as companions go, I'm re, my greatest regret of this era is

2468
01:43:39.840 --> 01:43:43.739
that I didn't get more of Carolyn John or that she wasn't, even

2469
01:43:43.739 --> 01:43:46.680
when she wasn't really well served, she sparkled on screen and you

2470
01:43:46.680 --> 01:43:50.399
could see that she raised pertway up and he responded to that.

2471
01:43:50.460 --> 01:43:54.180
He was always better and at his most sublime and at his most

2472
01:43:54.180 --> 01:43:57.000
compassionate and approachable in the little scenes with her.

2473
01:43:57.119 --> 01:44:00.060
So, yeah, I love Caroline John, always to have.

2474
01:44:00.119 --> 01:44:03.359
Well, dear, mister, I think we've reached the end of our

2475
01:44:03.359 --> 01:44:05.159
discussion of the Pertoy era.

2476
01:44:05.220 --> 01:44:06.539
We've eaten all the sandwiches.

2477
01:44:06.659 --> 01:44:12.119
The sandwiches are gone, scones, muffins, wine, cheese.

2478
01:44:13.380 --> 01:44:15.420
So Toby's cellar.

2479
01:44:15.539 --> 01:44:18.840
We're about to embark on the longest saving doctor.

2480
01:44:18.899 --> 01:44:23.760
Your thoughts, gentlemen, going into this era of Tom Baker.

2481
01:44:23.819 --> 01:44:27.119
My biggest finger is that if they're going to live up to my

2482
01:44:27.119 --> 01:44:30.359
expectations and that it will go through what the John Pertwe era

2483
01:44:30.359 --> 01:44:33.539
went through for me 10 or 15 years ago where it aged quite badly

2484
01:44:33.539 --> 01:44:34.859
and I'm hoping that doesn't happen.

2485
01:44:35.039 --> 01:44:37.079
We're none of us have.

2486
01:44:37.140 --> 01:44:40.079
That's true. ages remarkably well.

2487
01:44:41.039 --> 01:44:42.600
You know what?

2488
01:44:42.659 --> 01:44:44.340
I think I agree with you.

2489
01:44:44.399 --> 01:44:47.039
And something I am really interested to look at.

2490
01:44:47.460 --> 01:44:54.180
There is a debate about whether Sarah's character is weakened with

2491
01:44:54.180 --> 01:44:57.420
the new doctor if her feminist sensibilities are weakened.

2492
01:44:57.479 --> 01:45:01.140
And I look forward to examining that because I think it's a very

2493
01:45:01.140 --> 01:45:03.420
interesting debate and discussion.

2494
01:45:03.479 --> 01:45:03.779
Yes.

2495
01:45:03.840 --> 01:45:05.460
Well, the skirt pulled down, yes.

2496
01:45:05.520 --> 01:45:07.500
That's what Ian Miner does properly for.

2497
01:45:07.560 --> 01:45:11.819
Well, I'm very excited to see that the whole team is in this 1st

2498
01:45:11.819 --> 01:45:14.880
story and I can't wait to see what they do with the unit era in

2499
01:45:14.880 --> 01:45:15.899
this whole new series.

2500
01:45:15.960 --> 01:45:17.699
I wonder how they're going to develop that one.

2501
01:45:17.819 --> 01:45:20.039
It's kind of really interesting.

2502
01:45:20.100 --> 01:45:21.060
So I can't wait.

2503
01:45:21.119 --> 01:45:23.939
I'll go and get the tissues now for you.

2504
01:45:24.000 --> 01:45:25.619
Well, isn't that good?

2505
01:45:26.399 --> 01:45:29.039
I'm excited by more Bob Holmes.

2506
01:45:29.100 --> 01:45:30.899
He's going to be scripted at us.

2507
01:45:30.960 --> 01:45:31.920
Oh, is he really awkward?

2508
01:45:32.159 --> 01:45:32.880
can't wait to see this.

2509
01:45:32.939 --> 01:45:34.199
Plus, Harry.

2510
01:45:34.319 --> 01:45:35.279
Yes.

2511
01:45:35.399 --> 01:45:37.020
Who's Harry?

2512
01:45:37.079 --> 01:45:38.279
He hasn't occurred yet, has he?

2513
01:45:38.340 --> 01:45:40.800
You know, I mean, the brigadier spoke to him on the phone.

2514
01:45:40.800 --> 01:45:41.760
Yeah, he's been foreshadowed.

2515
01:45:41.819 --> 01:45:43.560
Well, I'm looking for it because, you know, I'm taking this as

2516
01:45:43.560 --> 01:45:44.880
I've never seen it before.

2517
01:45:44.939 --> 01:45:46.560
So I'll be receiving.

2518
01:45:46.619 --> 01:45:51.000
I'll be reviewing these. as a new viewer because, you know, this

2519
01:45:51.000 --> 01:45:52.380
is he is my solid 1st doctor.

2520
01:46:04.439 --> 01:46:08.100
We will be back next week, in fact, dear listener.

2521
01:46:08.159 --> 01:46:08.520
That's right.

2522
01:46:08.579 --> 01:46:09.659
We are going weekly.

2523
01:46:09.720 --> 01:46:10.619
What?

2524
01:46:10.680 --> 01:46:13.140
Yes, we're going to a weekly release schedule.

2525
01:46:13.199 --> 01:46:16.680
So that means, Richard, you're not to leave this room until next

2526
01:46:16.680 --> 01:46:17.399
Wednesday.

2527
01:46:17.460 --> 01:46:19.199
We're going to finish recording.

2528
01:46:19.260 --> 01:46:20.039
Delights, right?

2529
01:46:20.220 --> 01:46:22.500
Can we mention the massacre again?

2530
01:46:22.560 --> 01:46:24.420
Oh, I think we have to.

2531
01:46:24.479 --> 01:46:28.079
So we're going weekly and every week is going to be a re-recording

2532
01:46:28.079 --> 01:46:30.359
of the massacre until Nathan agrees he likes it.

2533
01:46:30.420 --> 01:46:30.960
No.

2534
01:46:31.439 --> 01:46:36.239
So... for Todd. or space pirates for me.

2535
01:46:36.359 --> 01:46:42.300
We will be back weekly doing one story per week and as a special

2536
01:46:42.300 --> 01:46:45.180
treat for Tom's 1st year.

2537
01:46:45.300 --> 01:46:49.979
You are getting not just one commentator, nor to nor three.

2538
01:46:50.039 --> 01:46:55.680
All 4 of us will be commenting on Tom Baker's 1st year as the

2539
01:46:55.680 --> 01:46:56.100
doctor.

2540
01:46:56.159 --> 01:46:58.739
So do stay tuned for that.

2541
01:46:58.800 --> 01:47:00.659
Will we all be alive by the end of it?

2542
01:47:00.720 --> 01:47:01.140
Who knows?

2543
01:47:01.199 --> 01:47:02.100
We'll have to wait and see.

2544
01:47:02.159 --> 01:47:05.399
But until then, thank you very much for listening.

2545
01:47:05.460 --> 01:47:06.840
We will see you next week.

2546
01:47:06.899 --> 01:47:08.340
Good night.

2547
01:47:08.399 --> 01:47:08.880
Good night.

2548
01:47:09.000 --> 01:47:16.140
See you soon. ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding

2549
01:47:16.140 --> 01:47:19.260
ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding

2550
01:47:19.260 --> 01:47:43.020
ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, I'm trying to find

2551
01:47:43.020 --> 01:47:46.680
online, but it doesn't seem to be, um, I think it was Paul Cornell

2552
01:47:46.680 --> 01:47:50.699
the, the, um, the multiple choice constructor pertly story.

2553
01:47:50.819 --> 01:47:51.779
Oh, really?

2554
01:47:51.840 --> 01:47:57.060
Like, um, you know, a poacher finds, A, an alien body, B, a crash

2555
01:47:57.060 --> 01:47:57.840
spacecraft.

2556
01:47:57.899 --> 01:47:59.279
C, a glowing sandwich.

2557
01:48:01.500 --> 01:48:06.060
The doctor, A, reverses the new polarity of the neutron flow.

2558
01:48:06.119 --> 01:48:07.619
B blows them all up.

2559
01:48:07.680 --> 01:48:10.380
C, bores them to death with a moralistic speech.