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NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:11:34

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Hello and welcome back to Flight Who Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast that knows that when there's sandwiches, there's hope.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd.

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Lovely lace doily for this performance with a little bit of watercress on the side.

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Hello, everyone.

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We're here today to pay tribute to the entire pertwi era, which is why all 4 of us have gathered, which is usually forbidden by the Blinabich limitation effect.

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And because it's, we do have a spread in front of us, we have BLTs, so we've got our sandwiches, we have banana muffins kindly provided by Calvin, and we have some scones which Richard has made as well.

9
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High protein scones, yeah.

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High protein scones, yeah.

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Oh, so without any further ado, we're going to raise a quick glass to John Purby, of this lovely sardonic vaudividello.

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Yes, but not cynical, but not cynical.

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One me up, not me.

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Just the one knee up.

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Yeah, just the one knee up for third week.

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And John.

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Todd, I'm gonna hand off to you.

18
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Thanks Brendan.

19
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Well, it's, of course, time for the pertry retrospective.

20
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So here's my 1st question.

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I love it when he does this.

22
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Like, I just go straight into a sort of...

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Oh, I should mention that I am in honour of what's coming next time wearing my Tom Baker scarf.

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One size fits all, apparently according to the little tank here.

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I have a giant spider on my back.

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And Brendan and I are wearing freely fronted knickers.

27
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Yes.

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Well, it goes nicely with my Joe Grant in Day of the Dalek shirt.

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Will he ever stop talking about it?

30
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I've never stopped wearing it.

31
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Coming into this era again.

32
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What was your current opinion of John?

33
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of the era and had that changed since you were a kid.

34
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So when you say the current era, what you thought of the pertwee era, just before you started rewatching it this time round?

35
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I wasn't, I don't think I was a big fan and I think the main reason is I don't think I was a big fan of Pertwiz, the doctor.

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But with that in mind, I think we've used the phrase comfort food before a whole bunch of times.

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If, you know, I had a few hours to kill and had to do the ironing or something like that, then the go to thing would be a perchway story because they're not very demanding, but they are, you know, diverting and entertaining and there are fun things about all of them, even the terrible ones are kind of good.

38
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But I have to say that I wasn't really looking forward to it.

39
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When you watched him as a child.

40
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Had you enjoyed it then?

41
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Yeah, he was my 1st doctor.

42
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I've said this before, and the 1st thing that I ever saw was Death to the Daleks, and, you know, it's a superbly great 1st episode, isn't it?

43
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So that helped.

44
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But, you know, the way that they showed it in the 70s, um, When Rich and I were the only ones of the panel alive.

45
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Um, they would just sort of rotate Pertwee and Baker and I enjoyed all of it, I think, equally at the time.

46
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I really liked the juxtaposition too.

47
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I really liked that Katie would show up one week and then next month it'd be a couple of months later it'd be news slaters.

48
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And or the mysterious Carrie John, who only ever did one story as far as we...

49
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You do forget that I actually was alive also.

50
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No, I don't look like that.

51
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You look fantastic.

52
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But, you know, I would agree with you.

53
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Like, as a kid, I remember we would have conversations at primary school about who was a better doctor?

54
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Was it?

55
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John, was it Tom?

56
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Was it Joe, was it Sarah?

57
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You know, and I remember, like, you know, watching like the 3 doctors and the Green Gate and kind of the Spies, and these were classic stories.

58
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So it was a kid.

59
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You know, I had, because of the repeats that we got.

60
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I had this view of how good everything was and how wonderful it all was.

61
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And that did change for me after I got into fandom, and I sort of, I feel that I brought him to the perceived fan wisdom, and I'm using inverted quotes here in the 1990s.

62
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Yeah.

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Of, of what the pertury Europe became.

64
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And I do think there is a point where television dates, and I certainly think in my viewing of things, the poetry year are dated.

65
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And when I watched a number of shows back, I was just, oh my goodness, like it was just, and I just bought into this sort of mentality that it wasn't as good as what I thought it was.

66
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You see, they, I mean, they changed the premise pretty substantially, uh, by having the doctor exile to earth.

67
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But it's not as substantial as you, as you think, because they do a couple of stories apart from season seven.

68
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Oh, yeah, apart from season 7, they do a couple of stories, uh, you know, on alien planets.

69
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A year.

70
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So we're not just sort of confined to Earth.

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And in fact, there's lots of stuff about the Earth premise that actually really work, which is why I think Russell takes it back there at the beginning of the reboot.

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You've got a bigger cast, and that's nice.

73
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You've got people to be invested in.

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And it only brings it back home every few episodes.

75
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I don't know if Russell was actually taking on one of Lett's notes because, you know, when Barry Letts took over from Derek Shoe, and one of the things he said he wanted to do was have 2 on, 3 off.

76
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Hello?

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No, he met one on earth, 3 up there, one back here.

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So, and kind of the way you sandwiched to season 11 when you just get the brigadier, you getting popping up in the middle, but really it's a, you know, you get unit at the beginning, you know, the unit, a unit sandwich filling in the middle.

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Yeah, it was pretty much 9, 10, 11, are all like that, aren't they?

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And so it is less earthbound than you think.

81
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But they're the exegencies of it.

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Well, how did you feel actually about the show itself or the Putwi Europe?

83
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Because we've come from a generation where in the 90s, you suddenly had videos available, and so they seem to all come at once.

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And the whole thing of venerating John Burtley, changed really considerably to some pretty, you know, it ranged in temperature, that you had DWB and Gary Lee, Gary Levy.

85
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So it's some appalling things about Pooh.

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He said appalling things about everything, really, didn't he?

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I guess that was part of the fun, that fandom back then.

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But yeah, when Pertwee was reevaluated, Pertwee's era, he really didn't come up well.

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And then when we were younger, that was that was kind of, you know, we loved him in the 70s and 80s and then there was this whole period of time, which was sad because it was just about the time, you know, he died in 96 and the last 5 years he'd been around.

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It was copying a lot of flex.

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I think it was just that memory cheats.

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And when you watch them, there's so much repetition.

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We've said that, haven't we, in the era, so much repetition of formula each, and some of those mid-seasons, get a bit plotting, really.

94
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And it is that thing too, where we were terribly familiar with the novelisations.

95
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Yeah.

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And they were often vastly superior to the televised stories.

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But I actually think the big floor, like I just don't think that per tweet is as entertaining to watch as the actors on either side.

98
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As the book.

99
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Yeah, the bookings.

100
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Is that your biggest revelation from watching?

101
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My actual biggest revelation from watching this time?

102
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Is that it's better than I expected it to be?

103
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It is better than I expected him to be?

104
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And I agree.

105
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And there are great things about the era.

106
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There's Katie for all of his overuse.

107
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There's Roger Delgado, who's spectacular, you know, the unit family.

108
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That's a really nice thing.

109
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You know, like I like Doctor Who.

110
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Again, the reason that I like, you know, early Russell T. Davis stuff is that there's a bigger semi-regular cast than just 2 people.

111
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You know, the show is too lonely and can't create a coherent world.

112
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If it's just 2 people off, somewhere completely different, you know, encountering people they've never met before.

113
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And so there never seem to be a through line earlier.

114
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But here there's a kind of world and, you know, like it's not expertly created.

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It's not subtle or anything like that.

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But it's, it's like home.

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It's nice, you know?

118
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And Pertry, who does start off obnoxious, actually does become quite loveable and has a bit of a sense of humour about himself, and you certainly see him smiling much more often as he goes on and delivering lines with a smile.

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Think about Planet of the Spiders where he bows down to the noble queen and smiles and says, oh, greetings almost, noble queen.

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It's a very sardonic smile.

121
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Yeah, yeah, exactly.

122
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But let's not forget, we're calling him pert, we shouldn't really be saying the doctor because we've all noted pertly.

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John Pertley didn't like to vary from his lines, one iota.

124
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He was a radio. very carefully planned.

125
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He was a radio actor and he really, he hadn't done much of the rep.

126
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He was really uncomfortable with improvisation. whereas most of the people he was working with.

127
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And you've seen you've all covered 3 doctors.

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That's how they did it.

129
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You know, he was really uncomfortable working with Pat.

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He liked his comfort zone very well defined.

131
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So when you were looking at the 3rd doctor's prickliness in that 1st season, that's not John Perkley, that's the script.

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Also, I think something which pert we really brings out in his performance, which isn't really in the text until towards the end, is the loneliness of the character and the isolation of the character.

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You certainly get that in 11 after Joe lives, yeah.

134
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But also in 7 and 8, when he is still a bit prickly, especially say in Mind of Evil, when no one can understand his depth of experience, he sort of withdraws his opinion, not because he's been chastised, but simply because he understands that no one else can possibly relate to him.

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And it actually makes him sort of sort of sullen.

136
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It's something that would very much become a trademark of David Tennant's character when everyone goes on about him being the lonely god and this and that the other.

137
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This is very much subtext.

138
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And of course, John Pertwee's perception of the character was that he was several 1000 years old, which is what sneaks into lines such as in the Mind of Evil, where he says, I've been a scientist for several 1000 and cuts himself off.

139
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And yeah, I mean, the only doctors I've really heard talk about the loneliness of the character are him and Sylvester McCoy, the only classic doctors, I should say.

140
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And that is something I think he plays really well.

141
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I think sort of his middle seasons when he's really comfortable with Katie Manning. doesn't come out so much.

142
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But yeah, then again, when Katie's gone.

143
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Even though the doctor and Sarah do bond, that feeling of loneliness never quite...

144
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A slight distance there, isn't it?

145
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It's an interesting book into Tom's final years.

146
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Season 18, doctor is quite similar to a season 11 doctor.

147
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He just didn't get...

148
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Yeah, and and kind of, although, although pertway's doctor actually softened.

149
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And maybe that's why I liked him as a boy because I was more familiar with his tail ends.

150
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Yeah, yeah.

151
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I really, really like him in season 11.

152
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That's something that's one of my biggest revelations is the fact that I was used to pigeonhole things like season 7 and then the, you know, the 3 years with Katie and then, obviously, Sarah at the end, like very distinct.

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But, but now I kind of think there's, there's early pertway, which, which goes up to the cause of axis, where, where the character is very prickly, and then suddenly there's a dramatic change in colony and space, where it's sort of mid pertway, where there's a softening, and that sort of runs through the, to the time monster, and then there's another definite change with the 3 doctors onwards, where he's much more relaxed and much more, otherwise, so, you know, that's something for me, that, you know, I can see that sort of layer to, to, to the way things play it out.

154
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And funnily enough, I actually watched season 7 last, which I actually really like doing to see like the difference between the beginning and the end, you know, how he was playing the character.

155
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And Nathan might actually, like what I'm about to say is that I actually discovered in season 7, and he's nowhere near as obnoxious as he is in those 1st 3 stories of season 8, despite me defending it all the way back, back when, he said, that character's actually more obnoxious in those 1st 3 stories of season 8 than I think in, than season 7 and perhaps with Solurian's been the exception.

156
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That was actually a bit of a... for the listener, what are those 1st three?

157
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Terror of the all.

158
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The mind of evil and the cause of axis.

159
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But they're 3 of the best, aren't we?

160
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No, no.

161
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No, no, we love them.

162
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Mind of evil.

163
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According for that one.

164
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I love mine.

165
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No, no, no, I liked them.

166
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I like that Axos is being in a bowie concert peeling yourself off the cherry picker because he was the 1st guy to bring cherry pickers on stage because.

167
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I think Claus' Axos gets that.

168
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It's a real psychedelic British.

169
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It is, but the characters are really terrible, I think.

170
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That's the problem.

171
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I thought they were landing. much worse.

172
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I thought that whole point of all of those things was sending itself up.

173
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Did you get a sense that pertly was maybe taking a bit of the pith as well?

174
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No.

175
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In a pithy manner?

176
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No?

177
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No, I just, I just, it was just interesting because as I was watching things, I realised how well he got on with the brigadier, perhaps in spirit from space and very much in ambassadors of death.

178
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And even the 1st couple of episodes in Inferno, they're not too bad.

179
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And then it starts to change in various parts of Inferno.

180
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And then it's sort of almost this reaction that we have to make Joe so loveable.

181
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So the doctor has to swing back the other way just so, you know, was a sort of reactionary thing.

182
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I was actually quite surprised.

183
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I think it's kind of the other way around because he starts terror of the autons really annoyed by the fact that Liz is gone and he doesn't have a proper assistant anymore.

184
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Joe proves herself to us the audience in the 1st story straight away by heading into danger.

185
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But she has to prove herself to the doctor and he won't accept her until cause of access.

186
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And in a way, he's kind of punished by the story because he tries to escape Earth and can't.

187
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So he's kind of being punished there for his attitude in the 1st few stories.

188
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And I think that's the turning point where he says, I'm some sort of intergalactic yo-yo and everyone sort of smiles and grins at him and he kind of smiles despite himself and it's kind of like actually these these people do kind of sympathise with me in understanding.

189
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They're not angry that I tried to run away.

190
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They feel sorry for me.

191
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A big part of the character being reevaluated in the 90s, perhaps less favourably.

192
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I think there's 2 reasons.

193
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One reason is in the 90s we had novels, which were able to go a lot, a great deal, deeper into characterisation, whereas in the classic series, there wasn't the time, as there is in the new series, for characters, motivations, and why not to be spelled out explicitly on screen.

194
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We'd also had the fan wink doctor.

195
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So McCoy doctor was a completely different character in the Virgin New Adventures, and that was the doctor we wanted because we were all at university now, you know, and we drank and we, and, you know, we looked at people who smoked almost next to us.

196
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I know, we were quite radical.

197
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We think dark, dark, and...

198
00:15:12.539 --> 00:15:18.179
So this home county sitcom era poetry doctor didn't just didn't sit comfortably.

199
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I do think another reason, perhaps, that he was evaluated so badly in the 90s is Doctor Who Fandom sort of started becoming organised in the late 70s.

200
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And from the late 70s. it seems that some circles in fandom.

201
00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:39.240
And because fandom has broadened so much in the last 10 years, there isn't as much of this now.

202
00:15:39.299 --> 00:15:41.340
Do you know there are girls in fandom now?

203
00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:43.919
I was at an event last weekend, believe you me?

204
00:15:43.980 --> 00:15:44.820
I know there are girls.

205
00:15:44.940 --> 00:15:46.080
Are there lots of girls now?

206
00:15:46.139 --> 00:15:49.259
There are lots of fabulous. lots and lots.

207
00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:50.279
You know what?

208
00:15:50.340 --> 00:15:51.000
You know what?

209
00:15:51.059 --> 00:15:54.360
Women who cosplay are my inspiration for dressing up as Doctor Who girls.

210
00:15:54.419 --> 00:15:55.500
Yes, but he does that at work.

211
00:15:56.639 --> 00:15:59.700
That's the flimsiest excuse I've ever done.

212
00:16:00.299 --> 00:16:03.779
But the thing is, that sets wobbling.

213
00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:06.360
In that early era of fandom.

214
00:16:06.419 --> 00:16:12.240
It seemed like fandom always needed someone to rally behind and blame for the shortcomings of the program.

215
00:16:12.299 --> 00:16:14.279
So in the early days...

216
00:16:14.340 --> 00:16:16.919
In the early days of it was Graham Williams, followed by JNT.

217
00:16:16.980 --> 00:16:26.399
Now the wisdom is more, okay, yeah, JNT made some questionable decisions, but really it was Eric Saywood, who was causing more problems.

218
00:16:26.460 --> 00:16:32.340
But I think in the 90s with no new Doctor Who being made, sort of JMT went off the boil a bit and it became...

219
00:16:33.419 --> 00:16:34.200
It became pertly.

220
00:16:34.259 --> 00:16:40.860
It became the perl era because the rest of Doctor Who was about going off into space and having adventures and not having any ties to home.

221
00:16:40.919 --> 00:16:45.779
Whereas in the perply area, you've got these ties to home and I think some people zoned in on that is different.

222
00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:53.820
And also picked up on Verity Lambert's comments in the 90s that she felt that it was too much of a change to the format and she wouldn't have done it.

223
00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:56.639
She wasn't as critical of it as a lot of people quote her as being.

224
00:16:56.700 --> 00:16:58.799
She just said, it's not a decision I would have made.

225
00:16:58.860 --> 00:17:02.879
Let's not forget she was also talking about before the telling movie in 96.

226
00:17:03.059 --> 00:17:12.539
The BBC was seriously addressing Verity Lambert as being the new producer and the doctor she wanted to bring in with her was John.

227
00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:13.380
She liked his performance.

228
00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:15.900
She just wasn't a huge fan of that. would have loved to have seen that.

229
00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:19.500
Have you noticed how the doctors go A, B, A, B, in the classic series?

230
00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:28.680
Except for Billy, because he's his own beautiful quotient, but we get surprising, received, if you want to say that, or expected performance.

231
00:17:28.740 --> 00:17:33.539
We got Tom Baker being just as quirky, as Nathan pointed out, as the wonderful Paddy.

232
00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:41.579
And then we get Peter Davidson, who isn't much commented on, but actually his performance really is quite, maybe it's not pertly, but you certainly know what he's going to do next.

233
00:17:41.940 --> 00:17:44.640
And then a bit more staid, isn't it?

234
00:17:44.700 --> 00:17:45.779
It's British.

235
00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:51.420
I've been watching robots and Tom spends a lot of time.

236
00:17:51.420 --> 00:17:53.519
Birth refreshing.

237
00:17:53.579 --> 00:17:56.220
Tom spends a lot of time horizontal in robot.

238
00:17:56.279 --> 00:17:57.359
No knee, though.

239
00:17:57.359 --> 00:17:58.859
No evident knee work.

240
00:17:58.920 --> 00:17:59.339
Yeah, yeah.

241
00:17:59.339 --> 00:18:03.900
I think it's it's to contrast with perjury, who's very contained and very versatile.

242
00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:05.640
And don't you think that Hinchcliffe?

243
00:18:06.059 --> 00:18:09.839
Oh no, actually, don't you think that even Barry Letts, because Barry Letts, whatever you want to say about him?

244
00:18:09.900 --> 00:18:12.660
I think he's a brilliant casting.

245
00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:21.180
He does. and he cast and he didn't cast Mr. Purdley, but he did cast Liz Sladden and he did cast Katie Manning. and I think, you know, Roger...

246
00:18:21.180 --> 00:18:22.019
Yeah, and Roger...

247
00:18:22.019 --> 00:18:22.920
Roger Olgutter.

248
00:18:22.980 --> 00:18:24.599
We've got a lot to thank Barry Lance for.

249
00:18:24.660 --> 00:18:35.819
Uh, maybe, you know, well, thank him for everything he did, and we'll get to that, I guess, could on, but it is so shocking and surprising to see Tom do things that you just don't expect to see on screen.

250
00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:41.039
And I find my eye wandering not at all from watching robot where with the pert we stories.

251
00:18:41.099 --> 00:18:45.660
It was quite easy to go and make a sandwich, for example, or a nice wine and a bit of cheese.

252
00:18:45.779 --> 00:18:48.420
Brendan, you weren't alive in the 1970s.

253
00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:49.740
So what was the time?

254
00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:49.980
Okay.

255
00:18:50.099 --> 00:18:51.720
No, I wasn't.

256
00:18:51.779 --> 00:18:53.460
The rest of us.

257
00:18:53.519 --> 00:19:00.420
So you've got this perception of, you know, why the stories went under reevaluation.

258
00:19:00.420 --> 00:19:02.940
What was your experience like compared to ours?

259
00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:05.279
Like, did you love the Perth we were before?

260
00:19:05.339 --> 00:19:08.039
Did you like all the time or?

261
00:19:08.099 --> 00:19:09.720
I did already love the Pertly era.

262
00:19:09.779 --> 00:19:12.900
When I was a child, it was my favourite until I discovered Patrick.

263
00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:15.480
Um...

264
00:19:15.539 --> 00:19:22.200
I think I think I found him very, very sort of, I was drawn to the paternal protective side of the character.

265
00:19:22.259 --> 00:19:24.779
I never really got that from him, but okay.

266
00:19:24.839 --> 00:19:36.720
Now, as for sort of what I have discovered this time around is the evolution of his character, starting off very gruff and angry and growing into this warm character.

267
00:19:36.779 --> 00:19:38.759
Who is the character I liked as a child?

268
00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:46.680
That being said, I also quite like the gruff character, sort of the smartest man in the room surrounded by people who can't understand what...

269
00:19:46.740 --> 00:19:47.880
That's never really varied, has it?

270
00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:48.359
Look at Tom.

271
00:19:48.420 --> 00:19:51.599
But, you know, it just varies in how the different doctors react to it.

272
00:19:51.779 --> 00:20:16.740
In a way, it's made me enjoy his performance even more finding that out because it sort of harks back to the evolution of Hartnell's doctor over the course of the 1st year and his relationship with Ian and Barbara, although the evolution of the 3rd doctor is certainly informed by the people around him, it's not, it's not as tied into the people around him.

273
00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:20.339
It's coming a lot more from pertly adjusting his performance.

274
00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:38.099
Probably, yes, as the actor becomes more comfortable, but he also did put a lot of thought into it, right down to the fact that there are directors who tell the same story about him that they talked about William Hartnell in that he'd be told, oh, and just go over to that panel and press that and pert we would also say, no, I can't do that because that's not that control.

275
00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:39.660
That's not the door control.

276
00:20:39.720 --> 00:20:41.339
This is the door control, so I need to come to this side.

277
00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:45.599
He was very protective of other actors on set when he saw that happening too, didn't he?

278
00:20:45.660 --> 00:20:53.279
And this is the thing, I think, where people really, who worked on the show at the time, have such ability, such abuliance to talk about it now.

279
00:20:53.339 --> 00:20:55.019
It's not just Katie.

280
00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:56.279
Do you feel that when you're watching it?

281
00:20:56.339 --> 00:21:02.279
Because there are also others who say, like, you know, there's on the centre of 3 doctors that Patrick Outton was really sidelined.

282
00:21:02.339 --> 00:21:05.160
He just didn't feel comfortable having to share the...

283
00:21:05.160 --> 00:21:06.299
The other example.

284
00:21:06.359 --> 00:21:24.059
The other example that I think of is Sandifer mentions, a scene in Terror of the Autons, where Pertuy just completely ungraciously treads on and steals, you know, one of Richard Franklin's lines, Katie speaks very highly of him, but, you know, he might not always have been terribly gracious, I think.

285
00:21:24.119 --> 00:21:30.960
I think you're getting a lot of the doctor in Kirkley and vice versa, and that's the point of this. certainly in the classic series.

286
00:21:31.380 --> 00:21:36.180
As the um, the actor and the persona are pretty much one on one.

287
00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:40.319
You don't really get actively performances until Russell.

288
00:21:40.380 --> 00:21:41.039
Yeah.

289
00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:44.940
So now that we've watched Hart nor Trouton and Pertwee, I guess.

290
00:21:44.940 --> 00:21:50.039
My question to you is, um, Snog, marry, avoid.

291
00:21:52.380 --> 00:21:54.779
Okay, so what, of the three?

292
00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:57.539
Of the 3 doctors.

293
00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:58.079
Yeah.

294
00:21:58.140 --> 00:22:00.180
He's got the worst teeth.

295
00:22:00.299 --> 00:22:01.200
Billy.

296
00:22:01.559 --> 00:22:01.859
Yeah.

297
00:22:02.700 --> 00:22:05.940
Okay, so I think it had to...

298
00:22:06.059 --> 00:22:10.019
So remember, remember, listener, like snorg here means go out, have a party with.

299
00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:10.799
Yeah.

300
00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:13.740
It means no, no, no, no, it's not beat around the bush.

301
00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:18.180
I think for me, it would be I'd snob Patty.

302
00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:19.380
God would you?

303
00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:21.240
I don't want to be the 3rd person.

304
00:22:21.240 --> 00:22:22.019
You're not the first.

305
00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:25.680
I'd marry I'd marry John.

306
00:22:25.740 --> 00:22:31.980
Because he gives amazing parties and he's got a beach house in Ibiza. and I'm afraid I'd have to avoid Billy.

307
00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:34.500
Ah, that's outrageous.

308
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:35.039
Next.

309
00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:35.160
Next.

310
00:22:35.220 --> 00:22:35.819
Oh, really?

311
00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:36.480
It's my turn.

312
00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:39.960
You know, I'd marry Patty, I think.

313
00:22:40.019 --> 00:22:40.980
He's busy.

314
00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:43.259
He wouldn't take up a whole heap of my time.

315
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:43.920
Do you know what I mean?

316
00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:46.440
He wouldn't be around.

317
00:22:46.500 --> 00:22:49.019
You know, all the time getting in the way.

318
00:22:49.079 --> 00:22:55.140
Are you saying you'd be a hovercraft like vehicle with a bond bug, 3 wheel chaise, and you'd be the 3rd time?

319
00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:56.460
So I'm going to marry Pat.

320
00:22:56.579 --> 00:23:01.920
Um...

321
00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:02.460
Really?

322
00:23:02.460 --> 00:23:05.519
You can you can party with Billy and John.

323
00:23:05.579 --> 00:23:08.700
Oh, I can party with Billy in the Inferno nightclub.

324
00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:11.339
Yeah, okay, I'll snug Billy.

325
00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:14.220
And avoid and avoid perfectly.

326
00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:15.299
I'd avoid poetry.

327
00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:15.660
Yeah.

328
00:23:15.660 --> 00:23:17.880
I suppose you'd have it.

329
00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:19.680
You're better, Dean, before you do.

330
00:23:19.740 --> 00:23:23.700
I suppose pert would steal all your wine and cheese, wouldn't you?

331
00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:25.859
You'd never get a sandwich in his house.

332
00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:26.759
No monstrous.

333
00:23:26.819 --> 00:23:28.859
It's funny though. right, Todd.

334
00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:29.940
You don't think, oh, wait.

335
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:31.680
I do avoided the question.

336
00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:33.359
I did slightly, didn't I?

337
00:23:33.420 --> 00:23:33.779
You know what?

338
00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:41.400
I think I'll just do a parallel universe thing and I can see myself living in Miami on the set of the Golden Girls with all 3 of them.

339
00:23:41.460 --> 00:23:43.319
I think that's actually how I would have done.

340
00:23:43.380 --> 00:23:47.160
So it's a kind of Les Boydesque from 70s relationship.

341
00:23:47.220 --> 00:23:51.900
Well, you're not quite sure who's married to whom and who's snocking whom and it could actually be an enormous four way.

342
00:23:52.019 --> 00:23:54.059
But what a sharehouse that would be.

343
00:23:54.119 --> 00:23:55.259
And who would you cast?

344
00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:57.839
Per we obviously be Arthur. got the hair for it.

345
00:23:57.900 --> 00:23:59.759
Billy has to be Sofia.

346
00:23:59.819 --> 00:24:02.759
And Patty with his profligacy in his marriage.

347
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:04.500
Marriage is obviously black.

348
00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:05.099
There you go.

349
00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:05.460
Perfect.

350
00:24:05.519 --> 00:24:06.900
Which one does that make me?

351
00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:07.859
Rose.

352
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:08.759
I get to be Rose.

353
00:24:08.819 --> 00:24:09.299
Fantastic.

354
00:24:09.359 --> 00:24:13.319
I'd actually cast Billy as Rose with all the ditziness.

355
00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:17.460
And I would cast Paddy as Sophia, meaning you can be Blanche.

356
00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:20.700
Oh, I don't have the reputation, unfortunately.

357
00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:21.960
I could share.

358
00:24:22.019 --> 00:24:24.240
I could share. with the other dog.

359
00:24:24.839 --> 00:24:31.079
I think I would have to, um, snog pertry, marry Trout and avoid harm.

360
00:24:31.140 --> 00:24:35.279
But you know, this is the worst question ever.

361
00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:37.680
It could be Scarman.

362
00:24:37.740 --> 00:24:42.660
Sorry, it could be Scarman, Sir Edward of Wessex and Cat Weasel.

363
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:43.799
I get the impression of those.

364
00:24:43.859 --> 00:24:45.960
So Edward would have had a snog on anything, guy.

365
00:24:46.019 --> 00:24:50.039
So, but in all seriousness, like, you know, up to Pan of the Spiders.

366
00:24:50.099 --> 00:24:51.299
Are all the doctors equal in your eye?

367
00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:52.799
Oh, they were not before.

368
00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:54.119
It's very close, though.

369
00:24:54.180 --> 00:24:59.400
They were not before, but right now, I am loving them all for their for their disparate parts.

370
00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:04.619
I'm having to say that unsurprisingly, I'm going 213 in that order.

371
00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:05.819
Gracious.

372
00:25:05.819 --> 00:25:07.079
Pad is tremendous.

373
00:25:07.140 --> 00:25:08.339
I think Billy is wonderful.

374
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:12.299
I think poetry is solid, but he's just not as interesting.

375
00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:16.859
But he's playing an Edwardian hero and that is what you're meant to be.

376
00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:24.420
You know, I've been picking on those Henry Ryder haggard and John Buchan novels and that's where he's a Richard Hanney. where his character is.

377
00:25:24.539 --> 00:25:31.079
Yeah, well, that might be true, but I just don't think that's as interesting a conception of the character as the other two.

378
00:25:31.619 --> 00:25:32.339
I'd have to agree.

379
00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:35.759
I'd have to agree The doctor in by his own nature is bohemian.

380
00:25:35.819 --> 00:25:46.140
He's not ruling class and he certainly isn't, which is even worse, an adherent to, you know, a partner who's sticking onto the ruling class, like a barnacle on the side of a ship.

381
00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:50.279
When he when he drops the line about Sir Toby or whatever it is and seeing him at the club the other day.

382
00:25:50.339 --> 00:25:55.619
The only thing that saves that is for me is when Todd mentioned in that podcast, and he said, you know he made that up?

383
00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:56.819
He never met Sir Toby's.

384
00:25:56.880 --> 00:25:57.779
It just hadn't occurred to me.

385
00:25:57.839 --> 00:25:58.980
Oh, no, he wouldn't have.

386
00:25:59.099 --> 00:26:02.400
He's still being the, you know, the flyby night.

387
00:26:02.460 --> 00:26:06.900
He still being the unexpected doctor, but he's doing it, but he's lying and you don't need to do that.

388
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:13.619
Brendan, I'd still put Patrick first, but I'd actually put Pertwee second over Billy.

389
00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:17.460
And it's like, you know, you know, Billy, Billy...

390
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:25.259
But I think it's also because, yeah, you know, with the ABC rerubs and whatnot, it was my favourite as a boy.

391
00:26:25.319 --> 00:26:28.319
So I think that I think that certainly counts for a lot.

392
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:29.160
But you know what?

393
00:26:29.220 --> 00:26:33.180
As I say, I'm not a little boy anymore, professor.

394
00:26:33.180 --> 00:26:34.740
It's a close run thing.

395
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:40.259
I don't want that to, I don't want that comment to be a detriment to Billy who's absolutely wonderful.

396
00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:45.000
It's a matter, it's like, do I like milk chocolate, dark chocolate or white chocolate better?

397
00:26:45.059 --> 00:26:47.400
You like to stop it all in a gob at once, don't you?

398
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:48.660
And you're even on that note.

399
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:52.680
Did you know that Lego are bringing out, not the other building block sets are available?

400
00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:55.799
I'm bringing out both a Doctor Who set at the beginning of the year.

401
00:26:55.859 --> 00:26:58.079
We don't know which doctor is going to be, and a golden girl's house.

402
00:26:58.140 --> 00:27:02.099
So I know I think there'll be a little bit of cross-lego playing in my room.

403
00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:13.319
Not only that, but our worlds, Richard, are colliding because the Doctor Who Lego is going to be downloadable into the Lego video game along with other toys.

404
00:27:13.380 --> 00:27:23.160
So you will be able to have a game where you can pick Doctor Who characters against back to the future characters and dinosaurs from Jurassic Park all from Lego figures that you put on top of your console and it downloads them inside.

405
00:27:23.220 --> 00:27:26.099
We can finally redo invasion of the dinosaurs.

406
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:27.059
You want to see it.

407
00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:29.819
And Lego, and it'll look even better. would work.

408
00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:30.420
Yeah.

409
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:33.960
I want, oh, God, if they bring out a pertwee, that's it. getting it.

410
00:27:34.019 --> 00:27:34.559
I don't care.

411
00:27:34.619 --> 00:27:35.220
That's the thing.

412
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:38.640
I'm actually going to buy the toys 1st and wait for the game to get cheaper. lovely.

413
00:27:38.700 --> 00:27:41.519
Welcome to our tiny, tragic little world.

414
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:49.680
Well, I agree with you, Brendan, that I find it really hard to rank them because I really think Pat's performance is tremendous.

415
00:27:49.740 --> 00:27:52.259
But a number of his stories I'm not enamoured with.

416
00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:53.400
Yeah, I have to agree.

417
00:27:53.460 --> 00:28:03.299
I find Billy really interesting because I'm always finding new things because I'm not as familiar with that era, whereas John I am more familiar with, but I'm really glad that watching this through, I've appreciated him so much more.

418
00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:05.880
So I'm not going to try and put one of them ahead of me.

419
00:28:05.940 --> 00:28:07.559
You've raised a really good point, they're taught.

420
00:28:07.619 --> 00:28:13.980
It's that it's not just the actor and it's not just the doctor. it's the entire crew Imagine putting pertwi within us Lloyd.

421
00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:16.380
How would he have been in that season?

422
00:28:16.440 --> 00:28:18.299
I think I think we would have...

423
00:28:18.420 --> 00:28:21.299
I think we would have found Michael Goff is the new doctor very quickly.

424
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:26.759
And how would Paddy have been, how amazing would that have been?

425
00:28:26.819 --> 00:28:28.140
Have we all read the Dark Path?

426
00:28:28.200 --> 00:28:32.880
David McKinty's missing adventures with the with the 2nd doctor and the master.

427
00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:38.220
Ah, I haven't read it, but I do know. an interesting idea.

428
00:28:38.279 --> 00:28:40.319
David McKinty is such a brilliant writer.

429
00:28:41.099 --> 00:28:42.119
Because he also wrote Face of the Enemy.

430
00:28:42.180 --> 00:28:44.220
Yeah, which is just wonderful.

431
00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:46.680
But coming back to something you said a moment ago, Todd.

432
00:28:46.740 --> 00:28:57.960
I think in the purple era, we also have, since the show began, we have the most consistent run of high quality stories of the entire poetry era.

433
00:28:58.019 --> 00:29:03.720
The only 2 I would pick out as being less than 5 out of 10 would be Monster of Paladin and the Mutants.

434
00:29:03.900 --> 00:29:06.059
Yeah, about Time Monster.

435
00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:09.599
Well, Time Monster, as we discussed for...

436
00:29:09.660 --> 00:29:12.779
It's at least a solid vibe because of the good fun performances.

437
00:29:12.839 --> 00:29:14.220
It's a comedy, as you've said before.

438
00:29:14.279 --> 00:29:18.539
So on that point, what are your bottom three, John Pertway story?

439
00:29:18.599 --> 00:29:19.619
I just didn't.

440
00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:25.259
No, well, our personal, our personal boss, our personal boss, I disagree.

441
00:29:25.319 --> 00:29:27.599
Yeah, can this episode be called Personal Bottles?

442
00:29:27.660 --> 00:29:30.720
Well, Time Monster isn't in my bottom three, but I'll let Nathan go first.

443
00:29:30.779 --> 00:29:34.259
Well, yeah, I mean, I would have to say those three.

444
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:38.339
I would have to say Monster of Paladon, I think, is just plangently boring.

445
00:29:38.460 --> 00:29:40.920
Didn't I revive your love of it in our last podcast?

446
00:29:40.980 --> 00:29:41.460
at all.

447
00:29:43.799 --> 00:29:47.279
You know, like Time Monster is sort of watchable.

448
00:29:47.579 --> 00:29:50.940
See, I'm toying with putting the demons in there.

449
00:29:51.299 --> 00:29:56.099
Even though I don't dislike the demons, I think it's just kind of terrible.

450
00:29:56.160 --> 00:30:01.380
It's kind of not what it, what it's, it's just sort of poorly paced and full of uninteresting.

451
00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:03.000
No, time monster, it's really terrible.

452
00:30:03.059 --> 00:30:04.680
And what was the other one?

453
00:30:04.740 --> 00:30:06.660
So what are your bottom throws?

454
00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:12.779
So time monster, Paladon, and what was the other one that we just mentioned?

455
00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:13.380
The mutants?

456
00:30:13.500 --> 00:30:14.039
The mutants?

457
00:30:14.099 --> 00:30:16.019
No, that's not that I quite like the mute.

458
00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:17.940
Well, I know what my bottom 3 are.

459
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:26.519
Coming in 3rd last is The Time Monster. 2nd last is the Monster of Heladen, and the worst poetry, which I just cannot face is Planet of the Dale.

460
00:30:26.700 --> 00:30:29.460
Oh, I hate and like that.

461
00:30:29.460 --> 00:30:35.880
Now, I really, like, if you actually ask me tomorrow, to sit down and watch any poetry.

462
00:30:35.940 --> 00:30:38.880
I could watch any, but if you said that, I would refuse to, and that says something.

463
00:30:38.940 --> 00:30:42.660
Oh, I think you should listen to Mark Gaitis read the novelisation because that's really good.

464
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:45.359
It's not the same thing No, I agree.

465
00:30:45.420 --> 00:30:46.380
Okay.

466
00:30:46.440 --> 00:30:47.940
Well, I think my bottom three.

467
00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:55.140
Coming in 3rd is the mutant switch, I think, is very worthy and has a lot of very good things to say but doesn't say them very well.

468
00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:56.460
Probably fair.

469
00:30:56.519 --> 00:30:57.180
Yeah.

470
00:30:57.240 --> 00:30:59.700
Coming in 2nd last is colony in space.

471
00:30:59.700 --> 00:31:05.519
Because it's the 1st time we've gone back into space for almost 2 years and it's just, ugh.

472
00:31:05.579 --> 00:31:08.039
And I'm sorry.

473
00:31:08.099 --> 00:31:08.940
I love that story.

474
00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:11.400
That was our favourite of the season, I think, Todd.

475
00:31:11.460 --> 00:31:13.680
I'm about to ask for your top 3 favourites.

476
00:31:13.740 --> 00:31:14.339
So keep going.

477
00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:18.119
Yeah, yeah. 10 listeners, did listeners.

478
00:31:18.180 --> 00:31:22.440
I just looked at Todd's eyes and I saw more white than I did colour when I said colony in space.

479
00:31:22.500 --> 00:31:30.240
And yeah, I'm sorry, I have to put Monster of Peladin at the bottom of my list just because, you know, no one gets out of it too favourably.

480
00:31:30.299 --> 00:31:36.599
Rex Robinson is a fantastic actor, again, sadly, no longer with us, and they put him in a badger wig.

481
00:31:36.660 --> 00:31:40.740
I mean, honestly, you know, I mean, it features Vega next, Australia.

482
00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:42.599
Yeah, how soon he's dead?

483
00:31:42.660 --> 00:31:43.920
Then he's dead by the end of episode one.

484
00:31:43.980 --> 00:31:48.900
It's like the main redeeming feature of the mutants is Jeffrey Palmer and he's dead by the end of episode one.

485
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:53.579
Does anyone die in the 1st episode of Colony and Space was particularly good.

486
00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:55.019
The Leasons.

487
00:31:55.319 --> 00:31:57.059
Yeah, all right.

488
00:31:57.119 --> 00:31:58.079
Yeah, she was a bit fab.

489
00:31:58.140 --> 00:31:58.559
There we go.

490
00:31:58.619 --> 00:31:59.460
Richard.

491
00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:01.619
You've covered it all for me.

492
00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:03.539
I'd like to talk about, you know what I really love.

493
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:05.160
Is that going to be an X point?

494
00:32:05.220 --> 00:32:07.319
Well, let's move on into the top three.

495
00:32:07.380 --> 00:32:08.339
So let's move on.

496
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:12.299
Stories would be in contention. for your top three.

497
00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:16.319
I'm not asking you to say one, 2, or 3 because sometimes that's very difficult, but what would you consider?

498
00:32:16.380 --> 00:32:18.599
Okay, for radically, well, radically.

499
00:32:18.660 --> 00:32:21.359
How can you be radical about a activities TV show?

500
00:32:21.420 --> 00:32:22.859
It was radical in this term?

501
00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:25.259
And for different reasons, I love spearhead from space.

502
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:26.700
I love the mutants.

503
00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:29.880
And I love, um, Green Death.

504
00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:37.019
But then, sorry, Planet of the Spiders is my all-time favourite, but we story, so that gets its own non-laired award.

505
00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:38.579
Nathan?

506
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:41.339
Carnival of Monsters, I think, is the best poetry.

507
00:32:41.400 --> 00:32:46.019
I think it's just terribly clever and so vastly different from what he normally does.

508
00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:47.880
I think it's really, really very good.

509
00:32:47.940 --> 00:32:50.940
And then I struggle a little bit. you know what I mean?

510
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:52.980
Like, um...

511
00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:58.799
Yeah, Time Warrior is very, very good and very funny and I liked it a lot more this time around.

512
00:32:58.859 --> 00:33:02.700
I thought it was really, really... always been, brilliant. home scripting.

513
00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:06.900
Yeah, yeah. that's right Spearhead from Space is spectacular.

514
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:09.839
I think Terror of the Autumn is actually really good as well.

515
00:33:09.900 --> 00:33:11.400
So I don't know.

516
00:33:11.460 --> 00:33:13.859
You don't have to give me...

517
00:33:13.859 --> 00:33:15.900
I'm just saying everything by Robert Holmes.

518
00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:18.960
I think I've just seen him. covers it.

519
00:33:19.019 --> 00:33:23.819
Carnival of Monsters was, from what I can recall, my 1st Doctor Who story.

520
00:33:23.880 --> 00:33:28.920
I'm not going to put that on my top three, but it does hold a very special place.

521
00:33:28.980 --> 00:33:32.099
Starting off my top 3 Inferno.

522
00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:39.599
Because I see Inferno as the beginning of the humanisation of the doctor.

523
00:33:39.720 --> 00:33:47.339
That's, I think, when he actually sort of takes responsibility until now he's only been working with unit because what else am I going to do?

524
00:33:47.400 --> 00:33:50.519
Next, I would put mind of evil?

525
00:33:50.579 --> 00:33:58.440
I think it's a real I think it's where Joe starts really building her independence and the doctor really begins to respect Joe as well.

526
00:33:58.500 --> 00:34:00.839
What does Joe even do in that?

527
00:34:00.900 --> 00:34:02.279
I'm struggling to remember.

528
00:34:02.339 --> 00:34:05.700
She does she does bash a few of the prisoners.

529
00:34:05.819 --> 00:34:08.519
Oh, yeah, she thwarts an entire Princeton right.

530
00:34:08.579 --> 00:34:09.780
Yeah, exactly.

531
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:10.199
Yeah.

532
00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:12.000
I'm thinking I'm crazy.

533
00:34:14.099 --> 00:34:18.599
Well, the last one, I mean, there are a lot, there are a lot I could pick.

534
00:34:18.659 --> 00:34:37.500
Frontier in space is almost in there because it's so epic, but I would actually say the Time Warrior, which, it sort of, restarts the pertwi era, because a lot of people write off pertwiz last year because Joe's gone, but that really gives it a kick in the pants start.

535
00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:40.260
Excellent chemistry between John and Liz.

536
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:53.699
Really great script from Robert Holmes, and it sort of says, you know, even though Katie Manning is Joe Grant is the glue that holds the pertly era together, even with her gone, we can still continue.

537
00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:58.139
We can still have jolly adventures and look, we've got this fabulous new character.

538
00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:02.099
So yeah, Inferno, Mind of Evil, and Time Warrior.

539
00:35:02.159 --> 00:35:04.260
I'm really surprised you didn't put the green Death in there.

540
00:35:04.380 --> 00:35:09.719
The Green Death, the story itself, you know, it's very solid. very good.

541
00:35:09.780 --> 00:35:14.519
But I can't put a story in my top 3 just because of the last 10 minutes.

542
00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:17.760
And it's still Sloman and he's still terrible.

543
00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:23.940
And for myself, I will be putting Colin in space.

544
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:26.099
I just can't believe how much I really love it.

545
00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:26.519
It is great.

546
00:35:26.579 --> 00:35:27.539
I just really...

547
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:29.760
You did just hear me choke on my wine.

548
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:31.619
Novel's great.

549
00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:34.739
I'm going to have to say the Silurians.

550
00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:38.940
I just think we sure looks absolutely gorgeous in that.

551
00:35:38.940 --> 00:35:41.280
And I really just enjoyed the whole thing when I watched it.

552
00:35:41.340 --> 00:35:44.039
And the 3rd one's, it's really hard.

553
00:35:44.099 --> 00:35:49.619
I think there's a number that are in contention, I certainly consider Inferno because I also really, really enjoyed that.

554
00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:51.599
I thought it was the worst of the season.

555
00:35:51.659 --> 00:35:58.619
And I can understand, you know, the fatigue setting in, but I actually really enjoyed it.

556
00:35:58.679 --> 00:35:59.760
There's a lot going for it.

557
00:35:59.820 --> 00:36:01.139
The beginning of the exposition.

558
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:07.559
And that 3rd one is tough because there's so many poetries that I would give like an eight, an 8.5 out of 10 to.

559
00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:11.519
The green death or spearhead from space would be the other ones that I would have.

560
00:36:11.579 --> 00:36:11.880
Yeah.

561
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:15.840
So on that note, what is your favourite season?

562
00:36:15.900 --> 00:36:28.739
I reckon this is actually a bit interesting because going in, I would have thought it was season 7 because the received wisdom is, you know, season 7's good and proper and gritty and interesting and then it all turns into panto in season 8.

563
00:36:28.860 --> 00:36:31.619
But in fact, that wasn't my experience at all.

564
00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:34.980
And so I actually found season 7.

565
00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:38.400
A bit tiresome, you know, times.

566
00:36:38.460 --> 00:36:40.320
I'm just drinkless.

567
00:36:41.099 --> 00:36:44.519
Just because it's those long stories all set in scientific basis and things.

568
00:36:44.579 --> 00:36:56.219
I thought 8 was really refreshing despite the fact that the masters in it, like I thought it was a really fun reboot, I thought that 9 was a bit less successful than 8.

569
00:36:56.280 --> 00:37:06.599
It was kind of like their difficult 2nd album, I think I said at the time. 10 has some amazingly good stuff in it, you know, like some really terrific things in it.

570
00:37:06.659 --> 00:37:12.780
And 11, I had always thought they were all sick of it and no one was really caring anymore.

571
00:37:12.840 --> 00:37:27.119
But I actually had the experience that we described earlier where Liz comes along and really lifts things and and makes pertry up his game and the whole thing is kind of spoiled by monster Peladon in the middle of it, taking up 6 episodes.

572
00:37:27.179 --> 00:37:30.300
So I'd have to say it's a toss-up between 8 and 10.

573
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:38.280
How hilarious, because I went through this, and I said to myself, right, I really enjoyed season 7, and I thought Lee Shaw was phenomenal.

574
00:37:38.280 --> 00:37:42.179
She's so good, Ambassador Death, which lifted that story for me.

575
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:44.340
Yeah, she's the only one you're watching, yeah.

576
00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:48.659
And I really loved Inferno, unlike your experience, ate on reflection.

577
00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:51.960
Master fatigue in the demons, really.

578
00:37:51.960 --> 00:37:52.679
Very much so.

579
00:37:53.159 --> 00:37:55.559
So eight, I eliminated.

580
00:37:55.619 --> 00:38:01.199
Nine, I really love the 1st 4 stories because I really like the mutants, unlike other people.

581
00:38:01.260 --> 00:38:05.280
And although the time monster falls away, I really liked those 1st four.

582
00:38:05.340 --> 00:38:11.820
10, I have problems with the 3 doctors, Frontier in Space, and obviously Planet, Dialects.

583
00:38:11.880 --> 00:38:13.800
So that was ruled out, and 11 I really like.

584
00:38:13.860 --> 00:38:16.619
A lot of those stories are 8 out of 10, 8 out of 10, 8 out of 10.

585
00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:27.599
And I actually like the monster pellet and more than the other, but on the average, when I work to sort of, sort of my number system out, actually season 7 comes out in front just ahead of season nine.

586
00:38:27.659 --> 00:38:32.699
So I actually like the odd-numbered seasons more than they even numbered seasons. the opposite to you, Nathan.

587
00:38:32.940 --> 00:38:45.539
The years for me it was. season 7 before I sat down, watched everything in order. and as good as season 7 is, I can't really put it at the top because Perby's character hasn't fully evolved yet.

588
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:49.139
And that's the only reason it's out of the running, all the stories are still really good.

589
00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:56.159
I think maybe Todd, that's why it has topped your list because every other season you can kind of almost look at and say that one's a bit NAF.

590
00:38:56.219 --> 00:38:59.699
Whereas season 7, I think, is solid from beginning to end.

591
00:38:59.880 --> 00:39:01.619
Season 8?

592
00:39:01.679 --> 00:39:03.119
Almost makes it for me.

593
00:39:03.179 --> 00:39:06.059
But Colin in Space really does drag it down.

594
00:39:06.119 --> 00:39:07.199
For me.

595
00:39:07.260 --> 00:39:08.579
Season nine.

596
00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:10.679
Again, I kind of agree with you there, Nathan.

597
00:39:10.739 --> 00:39:14.699
I like all the stories individually, but it's just not as good as the previous season as a whole.

598
00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:16.019
Season 11.

599
00:39:16.320 --> 00:39:19.559
Sarah, Liz Layden really reinvigorates it.

600
00:39:19.619 --> 00:39:22.980
But for me, I think my favourite season is season 10. there's a few reasons.

601
00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:24.539
Like these favourite.

602
00:39:24.599 --> 00:39:25.320
I know.

603
00:39:25.380 --> 00:39:26.760
There's a few reasons.

604
00:39:26.820 --> 00:39:28.619
One, I find...

605
00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:29.099
Yeah.

606
00:39:29.159 --> 00:39:33.420
I find all the stories in it really, really good.

607
00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:40.500
It's the one season where I don't look at it and go, there's an F1 and I understand that some people might consider Planet of Daleks is an F1.

608
00:39:40.619 --> 00:39:43.199
But for me, it's that popcorn factor.

609
00:39:43.619 --> 00:39:44.460
I think it's great fun.

610
00:39:44.519 --> 00:39:44.880
Yeah.

611
00:39:44.940 --> 00:39:46.260
The other...

612
00:39:46.260 --> 00:39:48.239
It's dire...

613
00:39:48.300 --> 00:39:48.960
It's dire.

614
00:39:49.019 --> 00:39:50.340
No, it can be 2 things.

615
00:39:50.579 --> 00:39:56.940
The other thing I really like about it is, if for whatever reason, you couldn't watch the whole Pearl era.

616
00:39:57.179 --> 00:40:00.059
If you could only watch one season.

617
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:01.980
Like if you're on a desert island.

618
00:40:01.980 --> 00:40:03.119
If you're on a desert island.

619
00:40:03.780 --> 00:40:05.519
And you could only take 5 DVDs.

620
00:40:05.639 --> 00:40:06.179
Okay, yeah.

621
00:40:06.179 --> 00:40:10.500
Or in this case, 10 DVDs because all of this season has been released as double disc sets.

622
00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:11.159
Have you noticed?

623
00:40:11.219 --> 00:40:14.760
It's the only season of Doctor Who where every single story gets a double disc release.

624
00:40:14.820 --> 00:40:15.239
Really?

625
00:40:15.300 --> 00:40:15.719
Yeah.

626
00:40:15.780 --> 00:40:30.599
This season, as well as the individual stories, it has for the characters, a story throughout as well, because the 3 doctors ends with Joe afraid that the doctor's going to go away and leave her because he's got his freedom back now.

627
00:40:30.780 --> 00:40:33.179
And then the season ends.

628
00:40:33.360 --> 00:40:35.880
With Joe leaving the doctor instead.

629
00:40:36.480 --> 00:41:01.320
And it just makes everything they go through together in that season, because Joe's character has now evolved to the point where she is a co-lead, and she is going out and getting herself in trouble and getting herself out of trouble, it makes everything the 2 characters go through, all reach other, so much more poignant when, 1st of all, Joe thought the doctor was going to leave, and he does say, oh, no, I can't go yet.

630
00:41:01.380 --> 00:41:02.639
I need to build this piece of equipment.

631
00:41:02.699 --> 00:41:06.239
It's not, I can't go yet because you haven't packed a bag or whatever.

632
00:41:06.300 --> 00:41:22.559
You know, then in Carnival of Monsters when she gives herself up so he can get out of the machine and save them in frontier in space when they're separated on different planets and different spaceships and Planet of the Daleks when he's dying and she goes out to find help and almost gets killed in the process and then he thinks she has been killed.

633
00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:28.860
And finally, in the green death, where she says, no, I can't just go off travelling while my world's in danger, I have to stay here and say that.

634
00:41:28.920 --> 00:41:30.659
And he only goes down there because she is down there.

635
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:36.179
It's just such a wonderful story for both characters.

636
00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:48.780
And that commentary with Russell T. Davis and Katie Manning, where he says, you know, the Joe's development and relationship was an inspiration to him when he was writing Rose and Martha and Donna.

637
00:41:48.840 --> 00:41:54.360
We've said before, Katie is the beginning of the archetypal Doctor Who companion.

638
00:41:54.420 --> 00:41:55.139
She's an elf.

639
00:41:55.199 --> 00:41:57.179
Alpha and...

640
00:41:57.239 --> 00:41:57.599
Yes.

641
00:41:57.719 --> 00:42:00.119
Season 10 is where it's most evident.

642
00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:01.320
So it's season 10 for me.

643
00:42:01.920 --> 00:42:17.159
Richard, I think we've all said it before, that Pertley's on his at his best when he's on his back foot, not on his back with one knee in the ear, but when he really doesn't know what he's doing, he has to use his intelligence and yes, I'm going to say it, he's innate talent.

644
00:42:17.219 --> 00:42:18.360
He's a very talented man.

645
00:42:18.420 --> 00:42:22.380
I know he probably these days more for his radio colony because that's what I listen to.

646
00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:24.539
And he's terrific in that. you know.

647
00:42:24.599 --> 00:42:25.739
And we should also say that.

648
00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:26.760
You know his favourite performance?

649
00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:31.019
He said, you know, quite a few years before he died, he was quite open about it.

650
00:42:31.079 --> 00:42:31.920
It wasn't Doctor Who.

651
00:42:31.980 --> 00:42:32.639
Do you know what it was?

652
00:42:32.699 --> 00:42:35.519
Wasn't the Navy like it was worse or coming.

653
00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:37.800
He really loved the character.

654
00:42:37.860 --> 00:42:41.340
So the more he could not be himself, the more comfortable.

655
00:42:41.400 --> 00:42:46.679
He was, the more he had a part to play, but I think he also became a lot less interesting when he assumed a part.

656
00:42:46.739 --> 00:42:51.599
And the stentorian received doctor of those middle seasons, honestly, doesn't bite for me.

657
00:42:51.659 --> 00:42:54.480
I liked the 1st season when he's finding his way.

658
00:42:54.539 --> 00:42:56.699
There are some amazingly wonderful moments there.

659
00:42:56.760 --> 00:43:06.119
And I love the his last season when you can get that sense of the wintry ennui and the sense of departing and the same reason that I love Tom's last season.

660
00:43:06.179 --> 00:43:13.920
So for me, it's season 11, because of the presence of Liz, Robert Holmes, and for Pertwee's fragility, makes him a lot more interesting to watch.

661
00:43:13.980 --> 00:43:20.039
And for me, season 11 is the, I know what you're going to say, is the season of terrific openers.

662
00:43:20.099 --> 00:43:23.219
Each even Monster of Paladon.

663
00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:25.559
I really like the surprise opening of each one.

664
00:43:25.619 --> 00:43:28.679
Because when you 1st seen Monster Pellet on, you think, fantastic.

665
00:43:28.739 --> 00:43:30.119
They're going to finally explore.

666
00:43:30.179 --> 00:43:35.519
We've got 6 episodes, we're going to finally explore all the things, concepts of a world within world, that we never got to see.

667
00:43:35.579 --> 00:43:36.780
We'll get to see the hierarchy.

668
00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:40.679
We get to see all this fantastic exposition of a truly alien culture.

669
00:43:40.739 --> 00:43:41.280
Did we get it?

670
00:43:41.340 --> 00:43:43.500
Well, no, we didn't really.

671
00:43:43.559 --> 00:43:46.619
But we thought we were going to for that 1st episode.

672
00:43:46.739 --> 00:43:55.800
What I'm really liking out of this, is how much everybody's loving season 11 and I always had this position in my head that it really wasn't liked very much.

673
00:43:55.800 --> 00:43:58.380
And, um, yeah, I'm really glad.

674
00:43:58.440 --> 00:44:06.059
Like, I mean, I wasn't here for the last podcast, so it's really nice to hear the love of this season, that John doesn't, you know, give up acting.

675
00:44:06.119 --> 00:44:08.340
He's, you know, he's conveying this loneliness.

676
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:11.400
Liz is great and there is so much in them. really, really good.

677
00:44:11.519 --> 00:44:14.099
So on that note, the snug, marry, avoid.

678
00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:17.940
Joe Grant, Liz Shaw, Sarah Jane Smith.

679
00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:20.400
Oh gosh, that's really hard, isn't it?

680
00:44:20.519 --> 00:44:24.480
It's like the opposite problem that we have.

681
00:44:24.539 --> 00:44:27.420
I am going to...

682
00:44:27.420 --> 00:44:30.960
I'm going to Snog Katie.

683
00:44:31.019 --> 00:44:33.239
I mean, I'm going to smell Joe Grant.

684
00:44:33.300 --> 00:44:33.539
Yes.

685
00:44:33.539 --> 00:44:33.900
Yes.

686
00:44:34.739 --> 00:44:40.920
Because I just think she's gorgeous and lovely and fantastic and I think she's perfect fun.

687
00:44:40.980 --> 00:44:44.039
I am going to Mary Liz.

688
00:44:44.099 --> 00:44:45.360
Sure.

689
00:44:45.360 --> 00:44:46.320
Absolutely.

690
00:44:46.380 --> 00:44:47.880
Oh yeah, that's complicated, isn't it?

691
00:44:47.940 --> 00:44:50.280
I'm going to marry section leader Elizabeth Shaw.

692
00:44:50.699 --> 00:44:56.519
Section leader, I think, too, although her prospects of retirement aren't very good, are they?

693
00:44:56.579 --> 00:44:58.440
Nice army pensions.

694
00:44:58.500 --> 00:44:59.400
That's right.

695
00:44:59.460 --> 00:45:00.239
And great hair.

696
00:45:00.300 --> 00:45:03.599
Pity there's nowhere to spend the army page.

697
00:45:03.659 --> 00:45:10.739
Um, and and I'm avoiding uh, I'm avoiding Sarah because she's got a giant spider on a bag.

698
00:45:11.340 --> 00:45:13.800
Nice responses, Nathan.

699
00:45:14.820 --> 00:45:16.260
Right.

700
00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:23.639
I think I would also snog Joe. Get her all dolled up for a nice now, a night out. meets you, my girl.

701
00:45:23.699 --> 00:45:24.960
Hell, yeah.

702
00:45:25.019 --> 00:45:25.860
Hello.

703
00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:30.059
I think I would actually marry Sarah Jane Smith.

704
00:45:30.119 --> 00:45:31.139
I don't think Liz would have me.

705
00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:32.460
I don't think Liz would put up with me.

706
00:45:32.519 --> 00:45:38.579
So I'd have to marry Sarah Jane Smith because, you know, I'm I'm quite an independent person.

707
00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:41.519
I like my time to myself and I have a feeling Sarah is that way as well.

708
00:45:41.579 --> 00:45:44.039
So we'd be quite compatible in that regard.

709
00:45:44.099 --> 00:45:48.239
You know, we go off and have our own adventures and come back and say, you're not going to believe what I saw dinosaurs.

710
00:45:48.300 --> 00:45:50.639
Yeah, well, I've been to a philaterally convention.

711
00:45:51.059 --> 00:45:52.619
Hi.

712
00:45:52.860 --> 00:45:54.840
In this ladies.

713
00:45:54.900 --> 00:46:00.480
So you're avoiding I'm avoiding Liz just because of the ultimate rejection.

714
00:46:00.539 --> 00:46:03.840
I'm going to save myself that heartbreak and just love her from afar.

715
00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:05.099
Oh.

716
00:46:05.099 --> 00:46:07.260
Probably wise.

717
00:46:07.500 --> 00:46:12.480
Well, bearing in mind, this is very parallel universe question.

718
00:46:12.539 --> 00:46:23.639
I think we'd move into a parallel universe TV and I'd be downstairs and it'll be upstairs in the flat for a man about the house and it would be, again, the 3 girls living up there and I'd be Mrs. Roper downstairs.

719
00:46:23.699 --> 00:46:26.699
I'd be with the jaws coming up and you know, getting into the gills.

720
00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:31.980
No, because I, because again, it's, I want to see the dynamic.

721
00:46:32.039 --> 00:46:34.500
I want to see a sitcom with those 3 sharing a flat.

722
00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:42.599
I think that would be terrifically fun and that, you know, you could get a few little moments, you know, a few little words about the doctor and I suppose he could appear.

723
00:46:42.659 --> 00:46:44.940
You know, at the end in the last episode.

724
00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:48.420
It'd be a bit like birds of prey, but enjoyable.

725
00:46:48.480 --> 00:46:49.320
Yeah.

726
00:46:52.380 --> 00:46:54.539
Yeah, so I'm Mrs. Roger for this one.

727
00:46:54.780 --> 00:46:57.420
Oh, so it comes back to me now.

728
00:46:57.480 --> 00:46:59.159
Who am I going to snob?

729
00:46:59.219 --> 00:47:07.320
I think I'm going to have to go with Elizabeth Shaw, especially if she's dogged up like in the Sunurians.

730
00:47:07.380 --> 00:47:12.119
I think she's got a wicked sense of humour and let's her hair down and we have a great time.

731
00:47:12.119 --> 00:47:13.199
It up in a hat too.

732
00:47:13.260 --> 00:47:14.099
Yes.

733
00:47:14.340 --> 00:47:17.699
I'm going to marry Joe Grant.

734
00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:19.980
Oh, Cliff.

735
00:47:21.239 --> 00:47:23.280
I didn't think about that.

736
00:47:23.340 --> 00:47:23.820
Thanks.

737
00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:27.719
Which means I have to avoid Sarah Jane Smith.

738
00:47:27.780 --> 00:47:35.340
I think I'm so in awe of her that I just couldn't really go up to her and talk to her in a coherent manner.

739
00:47:35.400 --> 00:47:43.440
I think if I did, I'd be walking down a corridor and there'd be some sort of pole in the way and I might sort of bang into it and go, oh, sorry about that.

740
00:47:43.500 --> 00:47:50.099
And then we'd start talking again and then we'd walk down the corridor a bit further and there'd be a 2nd pole and I'd also do the same thing twice over.

741
00:47:50.159 --> 00:47:53.460
You've thought about this a lot more than I have thought about with Lou Shaw.

742
00:47:53.519 --> 00:48:00.599
Well, you know, maybe I'm just relaying a bit of a story about something that happened in real life.

743
00:48:00.659 --> 00:48:02.280
Oh, goodness, okay.

744
00:48:02.340 --> 00:48:08.760
Is this you talking to Elizabeth Slade and smacking into a succession of polls because you're so absolutely in awe of her?

745
00:48:08.820 --> 00:48:09.840
This is correct.

746
00:48:11.400 --> 00:48:17.940
The very 1st time I met her, which was in a convention, I think, in 1995.

747
00:48:18.119 --> 00:48:23.400
The lovely Andrew Beach introduced me to her and we had a nice conversation.

748
00:48:23.460 --> 00:48:27.659
I was just so band boy about the whole thing and then she had to go off and do something.

749
00:48:27.719 --> 00:48:31.800
She said, well, walk with me and we're walking down this hotel corridor and there were these.

750
00:48:31.860 --> 00:48:34.079
It wasn't just a straight corridor.

751
00:48:34.139 --> 00:48:38.039
There was these little pylon things and so I walked in.

752
00:48:38.159 --> 00:48:39.059
Like in Mathal city.

753
00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:45.539
Yeah, and so I walked into one and then it was like, 0 my goodness, you know, and then we kept walking and I did it a second.

754
00:48:45.659 --> 00:48:49.019
So, yeah, you know, there's my little story there.

755
00:48:49.079 --> 00:48:54.119
So I just think I have to avoid Sarah James because I just would do silly things.

756
00:48:54.179 --> 00:48:59.760
I seem to recall, dear listener, and told me not want to tell the story, but I'm going to tell it now.

757
00:48:59.820 --> 00:49:03.000
No, I'm just remembering back to who ventioned three.

758
00:49:03.780 --> 00:49:19.559
Todd and the now late Elizabeth Sladen conspired with Roadshow video as it was then and the Canberra Dalek Builders to do a special launch scene for Paradise Towers on VHS.

759
00:49:19.619 --> 00:49:34.920
So Todd, who at the time did a, how did this splendid John Pertwe outfit. ran in running away from these daleks and then Liz Slayton ran in, to which Todd says to her, it's you, but no, it's you, you.

760
00:49:34.980 --> 00:49:48.000
And they did, they did this whole scene with the Daleks arriving and eventually they scare off the Daleks with a copy of Paradise Towers because as, and this is Todd and Liz Sladen back and forth, oh, it's got the Red Canes and the Blue Kangs.

761
00:49:48.059 --> 00:49:49.980
Oh, and it's got the caretakers.

762
00:49:50.039 --> 00:49:53.639
Oh, and the Rezis, and it's got, and then both in unison, Mel.

763
00:49:53.639 --> 00:49:54.780
Retreat.

764
00:49:54.840 --> 00:49:55.739
Retreat.

765
00:49:55.800 --> 00:49:57.599
And that was my 1st convention dog.

766
00:49:57.659 --> 00:49:58.380
Oh wow.

767
00:49:58.440 --> 00:50:01.739
Oh, actually, I told her, I wasn't who mentioned one, but I was bearing that.

768
00:50:02.159 --> 00:50:03.480
I was tiny.

769
00:50:03.539 --> 00:50:06.840
I don't remember much of it except breaking my Sylvester McCoy action figure. very annoying..

770
00:50:06.900 --> 00:50:11.340
So no, that was the that was the 1st convention I was at under my own steam and that's my abiding memory of that.

771
00:50:11.400 --> 00:50:20.460
Just you and Liz up there having fun and launching the video and especially Liz Sladen being willing to sort of send herself up a bit to launch that.

772
00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:22.619
I do seem to recall.

773
00:50:22.679 --> 00:50:25.980
I may be wrong, but these things recall as sort of people with disbanding afterwards.

774
00:50:26.039 --> 00:50:28.679
I think she turned to you and said, I'm not even in this one am I?

775
00:50:28.980 --> 00:50:32.940
She was a really, really good sport with that whole thing.

776
00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:47.159
You know, it's interesting hearing a different perspective of that because, you know, when you're doing it, you go, you're up there acting the bit and I'm going, oh my goodness, it's Elizabeth Slater and we're sending up, you know, Paradise Towers, you must think I'm an absolute idiot, you know?

777
00:50:47.219 --> 00:50:49.199
And so, you know, it was a lot of fun.

778
00:50:49.320 --> 00:50:50.219
She seemed to enjoy herself.

779
00:50:50.280 --> 00:50:52.559
Look, she was an absolute delight.

780
00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:54.239
And she loved John.

781
00:50:54.300 --> 00:50:55.139
She loved John.

782
00:50:55.139 --> 00:51:07.079
We did that convention at the end of the year after John's passing and she found it very hard to talk about John and what he meant to her, but the love that she had for that man was incredible.

783
00:51:07.139 --> 00:51:23.039
I think people tend to forget they think of, you know, her time with Tom and Ella chemistry, but it was so evident to me. in the conversations that we had either on stage or behind the scenes that, you know, he meant so much to her.

784
00:51:23.099 --> 00:51:29.280
It's easy to forget they spent more time together on a convention circuit working on those than they did in the studios.

785
00:51:29.400 --> 00:51:35.400
So they actually got to know each other when they were all much more mature and more themselves.

786
00:51:35.460 --> 00:51:38.340
So we were really lucky to have had all of those moments.

787
00:51:38.400 --> 00:51:44.159
I can't wait in future seasons to hear some of Todd's other wonderful anecdotes about conventions.

788
00:51:44.219 --> 00:51:49.440
So, you know, the one with Liz Sladden and the telegraph cucumber is one I'm particularly excited to.

789
00:51:49.500 --> 00:51:51.360
Isn't that a Sherlock Holmes story?

790
00:51:51.420 --> 00:51:54.480
I can tell it when he was sent out to, you know.

791
00:51:54.539 --> 00:51:56.219
Oh, I know.

792
00:51:56.280 --> 00:51:57.900
I now know what you're saying.

793
00:51:57.960 --> 00:52:01.380
Some things are better left off the podcast.

794
00:52:01.440 --> 00:52:08.699
It was very important to being earnest, wasn't it, when you have to come back. not for love nor money. and be obtained.

795
00:52:08.760 --> 00:52:09.420
All right.

796
00:52:09.420 --> 00:52:11.579
This is actually a true story listener. to it another time.

797
00:52:11.639 --> 00:52:12.300
Maybe.

798
00:52:12.360 --> 00:52:13.199
And that's the thing.

799
00:52:13.260 --> 00:52:15.119
Todd's not here to tell it, Richard Mill.

800
00:52:15.179 --> 00:52:17.039
I hope it tells it accurate.

801
00:52:17.159 --> 00:52:19.860
She was always a very, very generous person.

802
00:52:19.860 --> 00:52:24.420
And, you know, I met her a number of times after the convention.

803
00:52:24.480 --> 00:52:26.159
She loved you.

804
00:52:26.159 --> 00:52:27.659
She actually did.

805
00:52:27.719 --> 00:52:28.980
She was very fond of talk.

806
00:52:29.039 --> 00:52:31.860
I do, we're going off track.

807
00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:32.760
We need to get back on track.

808
00:52:32.820 --> 00:52:33.360
No, we're not.

809
00:52:33.420 --> 00:52:33.840
This is all.

810
00:52:33.900 --> 00:52:35.579
This is how we do our podcast.

811
00:52:35.639 --> 00:52:37.139
I don't forget, I'll never forget.

812
00:52:37.139 --> 00:52:48.960
I'm meeting her one time for lunch in London, and it was a rainy day, and I was with a friend of the podcast, Sarah Gronovagan, and this fiddle figure came out on the tube or whatever.

813
00:52:49.019 --> 00:52:53.519
And you know that outfit that Sarah wears in in the 5 doctors.

814
00:52:53.579 --> 00:52:54.119
You know that?

815
00:52:54.179 --> 00:52:55.260
Oh, in God.

816
00:52:55.320 --> 00:52:55.980
The pink the pink.

817
00:52:56.039 --> 00:52:57.000
Is that exactly the same thing?

818
00:52:57.059 --> 00:53:00.360
No, no, no, no, the raincoat.

819
00:53:00.420 --> 00:53:01.199
Oh, the raincoat, yeah.

820
00:53:01.260 --> 00:53:03.119
And we just, Sarah and I just looked at each other.

821
00:53:03.179 --> 00:53:06.719
My brain ceremony to each other and went, oh, my God.

822
00:53:06.719 --> 00:53:08.639
It's probably looking from the 5 doctors.

823
00:53:08.699 --> 00:53:12.960
So, of course, for the 1st 5 minutes, we're just there going, she's wearing the same thing on the 5 doctors.

824
00:53:13.019 --> 00:53:13.559
It was great.

825
00:53:13.800 --> 00:53:17.519
Yeah, she was always very generous and we met up a number of times.

826
00:53:17.579 --> 00:53:22.139
But that's, we'll talk about that, Pat, some other point, you know, maybe a few things.

827
00:53:22.380 --> 00:53:25.019
Now, to change type completely.

828
00:53:25.079 --> 00:53:29.159
Your favourite guest star in the post where you are or guest role?

829
00:53:29.519 --> 00:53:32.400
Not Roger Delgado, who was part of the red one.

830
00:53:32.519 --> 00:53:35.579
We need to talk about him very soon, but I know your answer.

831
00:53:35.639 --> 00:53:38.699
Tell me It's Scherner from Carnival of Monsters.

832
00:53:38.760 --> 00:53:39.119
It is.

833
00:53:39.599 --> 00:53:42.360
I said it a time and it still is.

834
00:53:42.420 --> 00:53:42.900
Hooray.

835
00:53:42.960 --> 00:53:44.699
Yeah, no, I think she's really true.

836
00:53:44.760 --> 00:53:46.079
She was just wonderful. you know?

837
00:53:46.139 --> 00:53:49.679
Although there are a few people in season 7 at the end there.

838
00:53:49.739 --> 00:53:53.460
I quite liked Petra and Greg in.

839
00:53:53.940 --> 00:53:57.179
We were getting his proper sitcom stuff there.

840
00:53:57.239 --> 00:53:58.079
Actually, it was love story.

841
00:53:58.139 --> 00:54:01.440
They were the Allie McGraw and Ryan O'Neill of Doctor Who.

842
00:54:01.559 --> 00:54:04.739
Does anyone know that the love story film was the biggest film of its era?

843
00:54:04.800 --> 00:54:07.920
Love was never having to say you're sorry because she died horribly in the end.

844
00:54:07.980 --> 00:54:09.719
Spoiler.

845
00:54:09.719 --> 00:54:10.679
I know, she did.

846
00:54:10.739 --> 00:54:12.780
Whereas in this one, they seem to have got away, didn't they?

847
00:54:12.840 --> 00:54:13.619
Or did they all die horribly?

848
00:54:13.679 --> 00:54:15.360
Well, they died horribly and they got away.

849
00:54:15.420 --> 00:54:16.619
That's the beauty of Inferno.

850
00:54:16.679 --> 00:54:17.639
That is the lovely thing, isn't it?

851
00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:20.760
You can have your cake and set fire to it in lava as well.

852
00:54:20.820 --> 00:54:23.880
Gold's good and good too, actually. why I like that story.

853
00:54:23.940 --> 00:54:27.840
Christina Benjamin is good in every Yeah, every time he turns up, doesn't he?

854
00:54:27.900 --> 00:54:32.039
And Jeffrey Palmer, we've got a whole host of lovies that we loved. don't we?

855
00:54:32.099 --> 00:54:32.820
Guys?

856
00:54:33.059 --> 00:54:35.219
I'm not even thinking.

857
00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:36.300
I'm still thinking about it.

858
00:54:36.360 --> 00:54:38.820
There are so many good guest cast, then you go ahead.

859
00:54:38.820 --> 00:54:39.840
That's too simple.

860
00:54:39.900 --> 00:54:45.599
Well, if it's guest villain, it's links because he really, just anything Kevin Lindsay does is gold.

861
00:54:45.659 --> 00:54:49.440
And for me though, it's Lady Eleanor.

862
00:54:49.500 --> 00:54:50.280
It's Dot cotton.

863
00:54:53.039 --> 00:54:55.139
Snoggin, Mary.

864
00:54:55.199 --> 00:54:55.679
She's great.

865
00:54:55.739 --> 00:55:05.400
Just imagine a whole episode of the George and Mildred, repartee we would have got with Duke of West 6, who's queer as a coup. and it's true.

866
00:55:05.519 --> 00:55:07.139
It really is.

867
00:55:07.199 --> 00:55:14.880
And Lady Eleanor, who's, you know, just making things do, and then there's that young, we don't quite know how how the archer fits into that scenario, but it would have been fun finding out.

868
00:55:14.940 --> 00:55:16.980
I really, it's my greatest disappointment.

869
00:55:16.980 --> 00:55:25.500
If we're going to jump ahead and say, what's the greatest tragedy is that we get 6 parts of Monster Peladon and only 4 of Time Warrior for season 11.

870
00:55:25.619 --> 00:55:29.940
I don't think there'd be any doubts of which is the best season if those 2 things had happened.

871
00:55:30.059 --> 00:55:31.800
Mine's a bit left field.

872
00:55:31.860 --> 00:55:39.900
I thought, you know, I could say Jeffrey Palmer or Paul Whitson Jones or, you know, one of the real big name guest actors we had.

873
00:55:40.980 --> 00:55:41.639
Still shaps.

874
00:55:41.699 --> 00:55:43.380
Cyril Shaps is always one of them.

875
00:55:43.500 --> 00:55:43.800
Twice.

876
00:55:43.860 --> 00:55:44.280
Yes.

877
00:55:44.340 --> 00:55:46.079
Dying horribly.

878
00:55:46.199 --> 00:55:51.059
I think I'm going to go for Anna Barriers Annat in Day of the Daleks.

879
00:55:51.119 --> 00:55:51.840
Oh, shit.

880
00:55:51.900 --> 00:55:52.500
Oh, yeah.

881
00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:53.099
I am.

882
00:55:53.159 --> 00:55:58.860
I thought she was a wonderfully, realistically played character in a very fantastic, fantastical situation.

883
00:55:58.920 --> 00:56:06.119
I think she's played really well because she is 1st introduced as a villain and we slowly gain sympathy for her.

884
00:56:06.179 --> 00:56:08.579
But her performance never changes.

885
00:56:08.639 --> 00:56:10.440
It's just our understanding of her character.

886
00:56:10.559 --> 00:56:13.019
She makes that work very different.

887
00:56:13.079 --> 00:56:14.099
She really makes those scenes work.

888
00:56:14.159 --> 00:56:15.539
I'm going to choose Anna Barry.

889
00:56:15.599 --> 00:56:24.599
If you ask me tomorrow, I might give a different answer, but my answer is my whole wisher as karlick in... in Carnival of Monsters.

890
00:56:24.599 --> 00:56:25.500
Hang on.

891
00:56:25.500 --> 00:56:26.699
Carlick.

892
00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:35.940
There's one moment where they fire the eradicator at the, at the mini scope and it doesn't work.

893
00:56:35.940 --> 00:56:39.360
And Karlik's response is just bravo.

894
00:56:39.599 --> 00:56:43.500
He's so funny and so bitchy.

895
00:56:43.559 --> 00:56:48.360
And, you know, like he's the centre of all of the scheming because it's quite small scale, isn't it?

896
00:56:48.480 --> 00:56:52.320
Yeah, that planet's basically those 3 people, all of whom are great.

897
00:56:52.380 --> 00:56:53.340
There's Packer.

898
00:56:53.400 --> 00:56:56.820
You know, there's some the guy from Planet of the Spiders.

899
00:56:56.880 --> 00:56:58.079
There's just...

900
00:56:58.079 --> 00:56:58.739
Terrence Lodge.

901
00:56:58.800 --> 00:57:01.260
There's just 3 people sort of scheming and stuff. it up.

902
00:57:01.320 --> 00:57:02.699
I think, don't you think they're meant to be?

903
00:57:03.300 --> 00:57:05.639
Don't you think they're meant to be the backroom boys of the BBC?

904
00:57:05.699 --> 00:57:08.460
Oh, I think it's, I think it's, they're called officials.

905
00:57:08.519 --> 00:57:10.500
I think it's with the gray shows.

906
00:57:10.559 --> 00:57:11.219
Yeah, official them.

907
00:57:11.280 --> 00:57:12.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

908
00:57:12.179 --> 00:57:17.099
But Wisha is brilliantly funny and cussing and acerbic, I think, in it.

909
00:57:17.159 --> 00:57:19.380
And he's saying Bob Holmes is live.

910
00:57:19.440 --> 00:57:20.760
Yeah, excellent.

911
00:57:20.880 --> 00:57:22.380
So Snog Mario Void.

912
00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:24.900
Vega Nexus, Alpha Centauri, or the great one.

913
00:57:25.079 --> 00:57:26.760
Oh, my.

914
00:57:26.760 --> 00:57:27.480
Oh, too easy.

915
00:57:27.539 --> 00:57:30.059
Oh, Snog, Veganexis.

916
00:57:30.119 --> 00:57:31.739
Marry Vegan Axis.

917
00:57:31.800 --> 00:57:32.760
Is that how this game works?

918
00:57:34.559 --> 00:57:36.480
What was the middle one?

919
00:57:36.539 --> 00:57:37.800
Alpha Centura.

920
00:57:38.219 --> 00:57:41.219
I think I don't know that you'd come out well.

921
00:57:43.019 --> 00:57:45.179
What would you snog?

922
00:57:45.239 --> 00:57:49.860
Alpha Century doesn't seem to have a mouth of any kind. stretching a point of it.

923
00:57:49.920 --> 00:57:51.420
We're not eating a monoid.

924
00:57:52.920 --> 00:57:56.039
You end up with conjunctivitis of the tunnel.

925
00:57:56.159 --> 00:57:58.440
I think I have to marry Alpha Centauri.

926
00:57:58.500 --> 00:57:58.920
Okay.

927
00:57:58.920 --> 00:58:02.400
Yeah, and avoid... spider, obviously.

928
00:58:02.460 --> 00:58:04.980
Yeah, I'd agree with Nathan for much the same reason.

929
00:58:05.039 --> 00:58:10.500
So, yeah, it'd be Snog Veganexus, Mary Alpha Centauri.

930
00:58:10.679 --> 00:58:11.940
Oh, I hit the great one.

931
00:58:12.000 --> 00:58:13.980
Oh, praise the great one.

932
00:58:14.039 --> 00:58:17.639
And of course, the great one does reappear in a South Park episode.

933
00:58:17.699 --> 00:58:18.599
What?

934
00:58:18.599 --> 00:58:20.940
There's a South Park giant spider.

935
00:58:21.000 --> 00:58:22.440
Yeah, the giant spider of the church.

936
00:58:22.500 --> 00:58:24.780
Pretty much the...

937
00:58:24.780 --> 00:58:37.800
Father Mulcahy or whatever his name is in South Park, goes to the Vatican to sort of say, you know, we've got to stop child abuse and it's like, yeah, but child abuse is part of the culture of the Griganak people and you come to these giant alien jellies.

938
00:58:37.860 --> 00:58:38.460
He's like, what?

939
00:58:38.519 --> 00:58:41.760
And when they finally reach a consensus with the giant alien jollies.

940
00:58:41.820 --> 00:58:44.039
Right, we must consult with the Spider queen.

941
00:58:44.099 --> 00:58:45.000
What?

942
00:58:45.059 --> 00:58:47.940
I do not approve of this change to Christianity.

943
00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:50.699
And it's the same, it's not, you're saying, churchman or...

944
00:58:50.699 --> 00:58:52.260
But Kisman Delgado, obviously.

945
00:58:52.320 --> 00:58:55.860
But it's the same timber. the queen of the fantastic.

946
00:58:55.920 --> 00:59:00.539
I will, I will find, we'll try to find a clip if Comedy Central will let us.

947
00:59:00.599 --> 00:59:04.260
Richard, Snog Barrier, Void, Veganexus, the Centaurium, the great one.

948
00:59:04.619 --> 00:59:08.579
I don't think it would be safe to snog for Centro.

949
00:59:08.639 --> 00:59:13.139
I think should be the easiest one for the easiest one to marry because again, it would be perfect sitcom.

950
00:59:13.199 --> 00:59:15.480
I really have ended up in the 70s in this one, haven't I?

951
00:59:15.539 --> 00:59:18.000
Because you'd be the one dropping, oh, I've dropped 6 plates at once.

952
00:59:18.059 --> 00:59:22.440
Doing the washing up and...

953
00:59:22.500 --> 00:59:23.340
Exactly, you know?

954
00:59:23.579 --> 00:59:25.619
We've got Jenny Laird coming for tea.

955
00:59:25.679 --> 00:59:26.760
You're horribly wrong.

956
00:59:26.820 --> 00:59:30.119
And I think if you try to snog Alpha Centauri.

957
00:59:30.179 --> 00:59:32.219
Well, I mean, it's just one enormous phallus, isn't it?

958
00:59:32.280 --> 00:59:33.539
I think you'd be overstretching yourself.

959
00:59:34.139 --> 00:59:36.659
Vegan X is certainly to party with.

960
00:59:36.780 --> 00:59:41.340
But I don't want to avoid the great one because I just think, I think she'd know a lot.

961
00:59:41.400 --> 00:59:42.179
She'd be very interesting.

962
00:59:42.239 --> 00:59:43.619
You've just got her off herself for a minute.

963
00:59:44.039 --> 00:59:46.260
That's the trick.

964
00:59:46.320 --> 00:59:47.219
That's the truth, though.

965
00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:50.460
I think, you know, should be, oh, shit, you don't need Google, do you, with her?

966
00:59:50.519 --> 00:59:51.179
She knows everything.

967
00:59:51.239 --> 00:59:52.320
She'd be great, fine.

968
00:59:52.380 --> 00:59:54.360
We should have her as a guest of the podcast.

969
00:59:54.420 --> 00:59:57.659
Perhaps it's a shame we didn't have her for Planet of the Spiders.

970
00:59:57.719 --> 01:00:02.760
I think we'd all have to arm wrestle over who would get to do her because we can all do the voice.

971
01:00:02.820 --> 01:00:05.820
I'm just imagining her doing an infomercial now.

972
01:00:05.880 --> 01:00:08.760
No, we have these excessive crystals.

973
01:00:09.179 --> 01:00:11.639
So, ask you, crystal.

974
01:00:11.699 --> 01:00:13.679
Yes.

975
01:00:13.679 --> 01:00:15.239
Just like that, was it that many?

976
01:00:15.239 --> 01:00:16.860
Different sizes.

977
01:00:16.920 --> 01:00:21.960
Yes, yes, the French and Saunders thing where they're looking at that jewellery that's so tiny that you show on the hand.

978
01:00:22.019 --> 01:00:24.239
Yes, yours to keep and enjoy forever. think she'd be great.

979
01:00:24.300 --> 01:00:25.380
Dominique.

980
01:00:25.440 --> 01:00:26.219
Yeah, that's it.

981
01:00:26.519 --> 01:00:28.800
But you cannot buy this one.

982
01:00:28.860 --> 01:00:33.719
I needed to complete my great whip of crystal to overhold the human race.

983
01:00:33.840 --> 01:00:35.460
Oh, I shouldn't have said that we live.

984
01:00:38.400 --> 01:00:40.260
He's lost it.

985
01:00:40.320 --> 01:00:43.619
We lost, Brendan, but...

986
01:00:43.980 --> 01:00:44.219
Yes.

987
01:00:44.280 --> 01:00:46.440
Sorry, the same answer as me.

988
01:00:46.500 --> 01:00:47.039
Oh, okay.

989
01:00:47.039 --> 01:00:48.360
I'm just, you know.

990
01:00:48.539 --> 01:00:52.739
Obviously, I'm avoiding the great one because I am the great one.

991
01:00:52.800 --> 01:00:54.960
Posing like Serverland.

992
01:00:55.019 --> 01:00:59.820
These are actually my top 4 arms I'm raising into the air, inside a skin suit.

993
01:00:59.880 --> 01:01:01.440
I can last of a gallery.

994
01:01:01.500 --> 01:01:03.119
The performance.

995
01:01:03.119 --> 01:01:05.699
The performance that you'd like to avoid seeing again.

996
01:01:07.079 --> 01:01:09.059
It has to be cotton.

997
01:01:09.119 --> 01:01:11.340
Oh, such a shame.

998
01:01:11.400 --> 01:01:20.699
Yeah, and it is such a shame because, you know, I loved I love the idea of Doctor Who, after such long time, opening up to speaking roles for non-white actors.

999
01:01:20.760 --> 01:01:23.400
I just think he was the wrong actor for the role.

1000
01:01:23.460 --> 01:01:27.900
I think even if they hadn't swapped his and Christopher Cole's parts around.

1001
01:01:27.960 --> 01:01:29.159
Who were?

1002
01:01:29.159 --> 01:01:36.539
Because Christopher Cole actually has sort of less dialogue and less to do in that in that double end.

1003
01:01:37.260 --> 01:01:37.980
He gets killed.

1004
01:01:37.980 --> 01:01:39.179
It doesn't help, really.

1005
01:01:39.239 --> 01:01:42.239
I don't think you want the black guy to be the one who gets killed.

1006
01:01:42.420 --> 01:02:05.400
No, no, but at the same time, Christopher Cole's character is a lot more sort of dubs is a lot more sort of down to earth and straight talking, which I think would have suited James acting style because Rick James got a lot of comedy lines, which fell very flat because he wasn't delivering them as jokes, whereas we know Christopher Cole can do that from his earlier appearances.

1007
01:02:05.460 --> 01:02:08.400
So for me, it's the character of cotton.

1008
01:02:08.460 --> 01:02:10.920
I don't necessarily blame Rick James.

1009
01:02:10.980 --> 01:02:15.480
I think he was miscast and possibly badly directed because it wasn't a terribly well-directed story anyway.

1010
01:02:15.539 --> 01:02:17.219
Can I say Jenny Ladd?

1011
01:02:17.340 --> 01:02:18.000
You can.

1012
01:02:18.000 --> 01:02:19.739
Then we could just get on with our lives.

1013
01:02:20.219 --> 01:02:24.179
I would have picked her, but it's like, oh, she's only in 3 seats.

1014
01:02:24.239 --> 01:02:24.659
It's okay.

1015
01:02:24.719 --> 01:02:28.980
Yeah, but she elevates, you know, bad acting to a high art in those 3 scenes.

1016
01:02:29.039 --> 01:02:30.539
She hates punctuation.

1017
01:02:31.800 --> 01:02:35.579
I believe it's a pathological fear of punctuation.

1018
01:02:35.639 --> 01:02:36.900
No, Sabo, I love my husband.

1019
01:02:36.960 --> 01:02:37.559
Why did you do it?

1020
01:02:37.619 --> 01:02:38.039
Why, why?

1021
01:02:38.099 --> 01:02:39.960
No, I shan't that you're taking my chant. shan't.

1022
01:02:43.079 --> 01:02:44.579
Richard.

1023
01:02:44.940 --> 01:02:47.400
I don't want to see again.

1024
01:02:47.400 --> 01:02:49.320
Season 10?

1025
01:02:49.380 --> 01:02:50.820
What the whole season?

1026
01:02:51.539 --> 01:02:59.159
John wouldn't... and it's kind of unfair because these things are sort of couched between things that are very good.

1027
01:02:59.219 --> 01:03:03.599
So, I think there's actually whole scenarios.

1028
01:03:03.659 --> 01:03:06.719
There's whole villages or whole themes that are happening along.

1029
01:03:06.780 --> 01:03:12.239
I mean, you know, there are quite a few performances in Mine of Evil that I think are really execrable and yet I really love the story.

1030
01:03:12.300 --> 01:03:15.239
I don't know that I want to pick on an actor as such.

1031
01:03:15.300 --> 01:03:18.000
There is always Prentice Hancock if you're struggling.

1032
01:03:18.059 --> 01:03:21.960
It's kind of, I know, but it's kind of like shooting eagles on a launch pad, isn't it?

1033
01:03:22.019 --> 01:03:23.820
He's always there.

1034
01:03:23.880 --> 01:03:25.619
He's always there.

1035
01:03:25.679 --> 01:03:29.639
I don't really have anyone that I particularly dislike, to be honest with you.

1036
01:03:29.699 --> 01:03:32.820
I think there are just moments that it's not quite as wonderful as it could be.

1037
01:03:32.880 --> 01:03:35.519
But this is one of those things that's a mosaic.

1038
01:03:35.579 --> 01:03:40.920
It comes together. as something that's definitely more than some of its little parts.

1039
01:03:40.980 --> 01:03:43.139
And if there is a faulty performance.

1040
01:03:43.199 --> 01:03:47.159
Yes, I could, I think we'd have to say misled doesn't kind of stand out.

1041
01:03:47.219 --> 01:03:50.280
Isn't she wonderful because of it and don't we love?

1042
01:03:50.340 --> 01:03:51.179
We look forward to that.

1043
01:03:51.239 --> 01:03:55.019
It's the mother superior's line in sound of music.

1044
01:03:55.079 --> 01:03:55.860
We all know what it is.

1045
01:03:55.920 --> 01:04:00.119
She can't face and it's generally her audience for that one.

1046
01:04:00.420 --> 01:04:02.760
But no, there's no one in particular.

1047
01:04:02.820 --> 01:04:09.179
I'm really happy to have come out of this and see that it's not as bad as I thought it was going to be. true.

1048
01:04:09.239 --> 01:04:11.820
I like to talk about the unit family.

1049
01:04:11.820 --> 01:04:19.980
And we've got the brigadier, Benton Yates, and obviously Roger Delgado is the master, I'm just going to throw him in there.

1050
01:04:20.280 --> 01:04:28.860
Were there any big revelations, positive negative about the characters, the performances that stand out for you?

1051
01:04:28.920 --> 01:04:31.199
I wanted more corporal Bell.

1052
01:04:31.260 --> 01:04:32.699
Yeah.

1053
01:04:32.699 --> 01:04:42.599
Because, you know, all we really got from her as a sense of character was that, you know, she's she's reliable and redoubtable and gets on with her job and no nonsense.

1054
01:04:42.659 --> 01:04:49.500
And I would have liked to see a bit of character development for her along the lines of, along the lines of the character development we got for Benton.

1055
01:04:49.559 --> 01:05:04.559
Because I don't think we got a lot of character development for Richard Franklin until that last year, uh, for Captain Yates until about last year, but I think, I think for John Levine, there was a lot of character in there from from the get go.

1056
01:05:04.619 --> 01:05:05.340
He was so much better.

1057
01:05:05.400 --> 01:05:07.559
I didn't realise they were all his ad-lib lines.

1058
01:05:07.619 --> 01:05:10.199
The thing about the doctor taking up hairdressing...

1059
01:05:10.260 --> 01:05:10.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1060
01:05:10.920 --> 01:05:15.360
I mean, and I think he's I do keep coming back to Pertley's booth.

1061
01:05:15.420 --> 01:05:18.059
I feel that like he proved himself.

1062
01:05:18.119 --> 01:05:22.440
I think he was proving himself to be a reliable actress, and they gave him more and more and more.

1063
01:05:22.500 --> 01:05:29.940
Whereas I'm not having a go at Richard Franklin, but I do think his 1st story performance isn't rough. pretty lacklustre.

1064
01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:31.920
And he does get better for whatever reasons, right?

1065
01:05:31.980 --> 01:05:38.519
And I think they do a lot with that character during that 1st season, they try and make a man of action, but it often doesn't end up the best.

1066
01:05:38.579 --> 01:05:39.360
Yeah.

1067
01:05:39.360 --> 01:05:42.119
And then he's sort of sidelighted for such a long time.

1068
01:05:42.179 --> 01:05:44.699
He's by far my least favourite of the three.

1069
01:05:44.760 --> 01:05:47.820
The brigadier is the one that surprised me the most.

1070
01:05:47.880 --> 01:05:52.980
How perhaps Stadia is in his approach to early invasions.

1071
01:05:53.039 --> 01:05:56.880
Like it's always we're going to shoot him, or he's got the troops ready.

1072
01:05:56.940 --> 01:06:10.260
And also, I think, Benton's, often proving himself and pointing situations where he's very open-minded, like when he gets into the TARDIS and other conversations, but the doctor, whereas the brigade is like, no, no, no, make it simple for me and that sort of thing.

1073
01:06:10.320 --> 01:06:13.199
So it actually at times shows up the brigadier.

1074
01:06:13.800 --> 01:06:16.320
Not in the greatest life.

1075
01:06:16.380 --> 01:06:30.780
I mean, as a kid, you get, we got all those stories where he's working against authority where I think he works really well, like, you know, in spearhead or in the green death or whatever happens to be, but there's that run in like the 3 doctors and certain things around there.

1076
01:06:30.900 --> 01:06:32.159
When he's written like an idiot.

1077
01:06:32.460 --> 01:06:34.199
And Benton comes out better. you know?

1078
01:06:34.260 --> 01:06:35.639
And so I was actually quite surprised.

1079
01:06:35.699 --> 01:06:44.280
I mean, I really like Nick, but there was this slight glow taken off some of the brigadier's stories, but I really love him in the season.

1080
01:06:44.340 --> 01:06:47.820
Do you get the impression that they poorly served, Nick Courtney quite often?

1081
01:06:47.820 --> 01:06:54.900
They just neglected the script editor, which just lists on Terence, just kind of thought, oh, you know, Oh, I mean, I think there was a change.

1082
01:06:54.960 --> 01:07:09.300
I mean, he was like sort of this major co-lead for the 1st 7 or 8 stories and then then units pushed into the background and it sort of comes he comes back with the green death to, you know, and invasion of dinosaurs and that sort of thing.

1083
01:07:09.360 --> 01:07:11.280
I think he's great in invasion of the dinosaurs.

1084
01:07:11.340 --> 01:07:12.360
I think he's great.

1085
01:07:12.539 --> 01:07:14.460
I think he's superb in the Sarah Jane eventually.

1086
01:07:14.579 --> 01:07:16.679
It's great in like ambassadors and in spearhead.

1087
01:07:16.800 --> 01:07:20.280
All these ones where you got military figures that he's having to work against.

1088
01:07:20.340 --> 01:07:21.960
Like, yeah.

1089
01:07:22.019 --> 01:07:23.880
I think it becomes problematic.

1090
01:07:23.940 --> 01:07:29.039
And this is this is a common feature of narratives, especially science fiction narratives.

1091
01:07:29.099 --> 01:07:34.440
You make your hero look smarter by making other characters look less intelligent.

1092
01:07:34.500 --> 01:07:36.059
It's a very lazy way to write.

1093
01:07:36.179 --> 01:07:37.619
It's pretty poor, yeah.

1094
01:07:37.679 --> 01:07:39.840
And that's what happens.

1095
01:07:39.900 --> 01:07:46.860
And you'll notice the biggest story it happens in with Nick is the 3 doctors where he's got Patrick and John to bounce off.

1096
01:07:46.920 --> 01:07:52.019
So to make Patrick and John look immediately intelligent, you make the brigadier look like a buffoon.

1097
01:07:52.079 --> 01:07:54.420
And I actually think it works the other way.

1098
01:07:54.480 --> 01:07:59.219
So I was listening to the novelisation of Planet of the Spiders run by Liz.

1099
01:07:59.400 --> 01:08:09.960
At the very beginning of that, the brigadier picks up that Professor Clegg is not really psychic because he's just using a word code with his assistant.

1100
01:08:10.019 --> 01:08:12.059
We kind of think, well, that's a clever thing.

1101
01:08:12.119 --> 01:08:13.860
You know, the brigadier is clever.

1102
01:08:13.920 --> 01:08:22.800
And even in robot, you know, he knows immediately that the robots next target, the focussing generators, you know, and doesn't need to be told, knows where everything is.

1103
01:08:22.859 --> 01:08:28.260
And when the doctor is surrounded by clever, competent people, that makes him seem better.

1104
01:08:28.319 --> 01:08:34.800
I think that that's why Joe works immediately in terror of the autons because she's terribly competent and can get things done.

1105
01:08:34.859 --> 01:08:38.880
And so when the brigade is an idiot, it actually makes the doctor look stupid.

1106
01:08:38.939 --> 01:08:42.420
It's your story about lives in the caves. lives in the caves.

1107
01:08:42.539 --> 01:08:57.720
I mean, where I 1st sort of picked up on this whole narrative device or trope of having a stupid character, having a stupid character to make the rest of your characters look good, was actually in Star Trek in the next generation when the character of Lieutenant Barclay starts appearing.

1108
01:08:57.779 --> 01:09:05.039
Because when they introduced Barclay, they have all these comedy scenes about how awkward he is around everyone.

1109
01:09:05.100 --> 01:09:17.520
It backfires because it makes the regulars look like really horrible people that instead of realising, oh, this man is very nervous with human contacts, let's help him and coax him.

1110
01:09:17.520 --> 01:09:19.560
They're really snobbish and elitist.

1111
01:09:19.560 --> 01:09:23.520
Picard even says at one point, how did he get on my ship?

1112
01:09:23.520 --> 01:09:25.859
And someone says, well, he's very technically competent.

1113
01:09:25.920 --> 01:09:26.520
Oh, that's it.

1114
01:09:26.579 --> 01:09:26.760
Yeah.

1115
01:09:26.819 --> 01:09:35.520
So it's like, oh, so he shouldn't be on your ship because he's, he might now, if he were written today, might be written as an Asperges or autistic character.

1116
01:09:35.579 --> 01:09:37.140
He certainly has...

1117
01:09:37.140 --> 01:09:38.760
It still stands out.

1118
01:09:38.819 --> 01:09:40.079
Terrible writing, doesn't it?

1119
01:09:40.140 --> 01:10:00.659
The thing is, when they brought the character back, I think they realised that because in future, when Barclay is awkward, the comedy is actually in the reactions to him and they make him awkward about things that the viewers might feel awkward about, like they make him fearful of transporters and he explains it is, no, you're breaking me down and viewers go, actually, yeah, this is a bit like, I have a fear of flying.

1120
01:10:00.720 --> 01:10:02.579
It's a bit like that and they discuss phobias.

1121
01:10:02.640 --> 01:10:14.159
And so I think they realise that whole thing of writing a stupid characters make your other characters look good, can actually turn you against the other characters because why would they be hanging out with super people?

1122
01:10:14.220 --> 01:10:18.300
They're not hanging out with people, but they're making fun of people because they're not as intelligent as them.

1123
01:10:18.359 --> 01:10:21.000
I think, yeah, the brigadier was poorly served.

1124
01:10:21.300 --> 01:10:23.399
But yeah, only in the middle.

1125
01:10:23.460 --> 01:10:25.619
He sort of recovers towards the end of the Purley era.

1126
01:10:25.680 --> 01:10:26.699
He's lovely in spiders.

1127
01:10:26.760 --> 01:10:27.359
Yeah.

1128
01:10:27.359 --> 01:10:31.739
And especially his reactions during pertly his death.

1129
01:10:31.800 --> 01:10:40.380
Nick is great in that because you can see the brig is feeling emotion, but he's being strong, I think, for his own sake, and also for Sarah's sake.

1130
01:10:40.439 --> 01:10:42.180
After the doctors collapsed on the floor.

1131
01:10:42.239 --> 01:10:45.060
Sarah, won't you introduce me to your friend who's hovering over there?

1132
01:10:45.119 --> 01:10:47.220
Well, it's the app.

1133
01:10:47.279 --> 01:10:48.600
Well, it's it's...

1134
01:10:48.659 --> 01:10:53.399
No, it's, it's, it's the, it looks like Choji, but and the brigade is like, thank you, Miss Smith.

1135
01:10:53.460 --> 01:10:54.779
That makes everything quite clear.

1136
01:10:54.840 --> 01:10:56.699
Yeah, quite real, isn't it?

1137
01:10:56.760 --> 01:11:02.039
part of the fun of the brigadier is that he's not thrown by something like that.

1138
01:11:02.100 --> 01:11:02.939
Yeah, yeah.

1139
01:11:02.939 --> 01:11:13.979
And so when he's thrown by the TARDIS, that kind of undermines his real strength, which is that he wanders through these stories. with a kind of raised eyebrow and a slight curl of a smile.

1140
01:11:14.039 --> 01:11:27.539
And I like the brigadier best when he actually thinks he's a bit superior to per tweet and like when he finds per tweets a bit amusing, you know, like I think that's that's when he's at his strongest.

1141
01:11:27.600 --> 01:11:33.479
It's really just the 3 doctors and maybe a little bit of the end of time monster where they write him as really stupid.

1142
01:11:33.539 --> 01:11:34.199
Yeah, yeah.

1143
01:11:34.199 --> 01:11:39.000
Even by the Green Death, he's got that wonderful line of, I'm not the dunderhead you all see to think.

1144
01:11:39.119 --> 01:11:44.100
And everyone kind of looks at him. of course I've sent my kid to spy.

1145
01:11:44.159 --> 01:11:45.000
What do you think I am?

1146
01:11:45.180 --> 01:11:48.899
So on that note, Snog, marry, of course.

1147
01:11:48.960 --> 01:11:50.760
The brigadier.

1148
01:11:50.819 --> 01:11:52.020
Sergeant Bitton.

1149
01:11:52.079 --> 01:11:52.859
Captain Yates.

1150
01:11:52.920 --> 01:11:55.560
Well, it wouldn't be legal to marry Captain.

1151
01:11:55.560 --> 01:11:57.720
Yeah, it's obviously in this country at the moment.

1152
01:11:57.840 --> 01:11:59.819
You'll be able to get your leg over, I expect.

1153
01:12:00.840 --> 01:12:03.239
I'm going to marry the brigadier.

1154
01:12:03.300 --> 01:12:04.319
Yeah, same game.

1155
01:12:04.560 --> 01:12:06.600
Hello. and you'll always be Doris to us.

1156
01:12:06.779 --> 01:12:09.720
I'm going to snorg Gates.

1157
01:12:09.779 --> 01:12:17.399
Oh, and I'm going to avoid Benton because he's the one that takes all the orders and just carries them out, right?

1158
01:12:17.460 --> 01:12:29.460
And so at home, I think he would just be barking the orders all the time and I just don't think I would hack that taking it out on the poor wife, so I'm not going to...

1159
01:12:29.520 --> 01:12:32.159
Yeah, I mean, he doesn't look so good in a gimp suit either.

1160
01:12:32.939 --> 01:12:36.899
He's a very attractive yeti.

1161
01:12:37.739 --> 01:12:40.020
A fairy gimpsie.

1162
01:12:40.079 --> 01:12:41.819
No need for don't talk boss.

1163
01:12:41.880 --> 01:12:44.460
So I'd snog Sergeant Benton.

1164
01:12:44.520 --> 01:12:45.479
We'll do, darling.

1165
01:12:45.539 --> 01:12:47.520
I'd avoid Captain Yates.

1166
01:12:47.579 --> 01:12:50.579
And I've heard he's terribly fond of you.

1167
01:12:50.640 --> 01:13:01.199
That's a big revelation for me. because before recording these podcasts, I actually preferred Yates to Benton, but now I think I'm a conversation to Yates.

1168
01:13:01.260 --> 01:13:08.460
You know, having now got to the end of the year, especially that beautiful moment in invasion of the dinosaurs when Benton sort of says, 0 yeah, just knock me out, doctor, whatever.

1169
01:13:08.520 --> 01:13:10.619
So Snog, Sergeant Benton.

1170
01:13:10.680 --> 01:13:11.640
Avoid...

1171
01:13:11.640 --> 01:13:12.720
Like you do with your French girls.

1172
01:13:13.020 --> 01:13:15.899
And marry the brig.

1173
01:13:15.960 --> 01:13:18.000
Oh, dear Mr, my job is dark.

1174
01:13:19.739 --> 01:13:25.319
Um, Brendan, um, should yourself and Richard Franklin get on quite well?

1175
01:13:25.380 --> 01:13:26.279
I did actually get on.

1176
01:13:26.340 --> 01:13:28.800
Yeah, I got on the question was not about Richard Franklin.

1177
01:13:28.859 --> 01:13:29.399
No, it's not.

1178
01:13:29.460 --> 01:13:30.899
I think there might be an A priority.

1179
01:13:30.960 --> 01:13:31.619
It's a very nice man.

1180
01:13:31.680 --> 01:13:32.460
Yes, he is.

1181
01:13:32.520 --> 01:13:32.939
Yeah.

1182
01:13:32.939 --> 01:13:35.640
He's very fond of Duncan, especially in your...

1183
01:13:35.640 --> 01:13:36.420
David Dyks?

1184
01:13:36.479 --> 01:13:37.439
So you're...

1185
01:13:37.439 --> 01:13:38.159
I haven't answered yet.

1186
01:13:38.939 --> 01:13:39.359
What did I say?

1187
01:13:39.420 --> 01:13:42.180
I think I was going to marry Benton because he's good at taking orders.

1188
01:13:45.300 --> 01:13:48.359
I'm going to...

1189
01:13:49.560 --> 01:13:55.979
Well, you know, like I actually think Mike Yates ends up quite good in quite good plays. terrific.

1190
01:13:56.100 --> 01:14:00.000
And he gets a lot of meaty material and he's really likeable inspired. said no to that.

1191
01:14:00.060 --> 01:14:03.479
Yeah, I really like him in...

1192
01:14:03.539 --> 01:14:04.920
He's fantastic in Spiders.

1193
01:14:04.979 --> 01:14:11.880
So I am going to snog him, which means you're avoiding...

1194
01:14:11.880 --> 01:14:12.960
I'm avoiding the brigadier.

1195
01:14:13.020 --> 01:14:16.380
Wow. weirdly, I'm almost with Nathan.

1196
01:14:16.439 --> 01:14:19.380
I'd have to avoid the brigadier just because I never know what I'm going to get next.

1197
01:14:19.439 --> 01:14:21.600
Well, he's so good in some.

1198
01:14:21.720 --> 01:14:22.619
I said compremise.

1199
01:14:22.680 --> 01:14:23.699
I thought we were going to dance.

1200
01:14:23.760 --> 01:14:25.020
We are.

1201
01:14:25.079 --> 01:14:27.720
I am going to a sitcom, but I'm going to...

1202
01:14:27.779 --> 01:14:28.739
He's always coming back.

1203
01:14:28.800 --> 01:14:35.399
Like, you know, all these units soldiers are dying and he's having to organise funerals, as I mentioned before, but you know, he comes home at the end of the day.

1204
01:14:37.020 --> 01:14:39.060
So you'd avoid the brig?

1205
01:14:39.119 --> 01:14:40.439
No, I was saying that.

1206
01:14:40.500 --> 01:14:47.159
I'm just saying I don't know that I'd marry him because I don't think it would, it would kind of work out quite as well as we all think it would.

1207
01:14:47.220 --> 01:14:48.239
I think it's more of this one.

1208
01:14:48.300 --> 01:14:49.319
The cast of friends.

1209
01:14:49.319 --> 01:14:58.380
And you're sitting around just thinking, oh, which one's going to die 1st because the only reason you're all together sitting in that idiot cafe is because no one else could possibly stand you.

1210
01:14:58.500 --> 01:15:02.159
It's why you're together every single bloody episode in the same room.

1211
01:15:02.220 --> 01:15:04.199
No, they don't have any other friends, do they?

1212
01:15:04.260 --> 01:15:05.760
Who would I be in that one?

1213
01:15:05.819 --> 01:15:10.020
I think I'd be Phoebe's smelly cat in that one.

1214
01:15:10.020 --> 01:15:11.640
Sitting on the edge.

1215
01:15:11.699 --> 01:15:14.399
No, that, that, I don't really want any of them.

1216
01:15:14.460 --> 01:15:15.899
Thank you.

1217
01:15:15.960 --> 01:15:16.500
Okay.

1218
01:15:16.560 --> 01:15:19.920
Avoid, avoid, avoid, avoid.

1219
01:15:19.979 --> 01:15:22.140
Okay, we haven't discussed Roger Delgado.

1220
01:15:22.199 --> 01:15:24.300
Well, you'd marry the master?

1221
01:15:24.300 --> 01:15:25.859
I think he's just amazing.

1222
01:15:25.920 --> 01:15:32.939
Yeah, he is, even though he is given the full gamut of wonderful scripts right through to absolute Drek.

1223
01:15:33.000 --> 01:15:37.920
He never adjusts his performance to match the material.

1224
01:15:37.979 --> 01:15:42.659
It is always the same excellent performance all the way through his day stories.

1225
01:15:42.779 --> 01:15:50.819
I think there's, you know, that hilarious moment in Clause of Axos when you realise he's actually much more polite and likeable than the doctor.

1226
01:15:51.239 --> 01:15:54.180
Because, you know, he really is, isn't he?

1227
01:15:54.300 --> 01:15:55.020
He's wonderful.

1228
01:15:55.079 --> 01:15:57.000
He's so charming and suave.

1229
01:15:57.060 --> 01:16:06.300
I think, you know, There's a sense in which the character's a bit of a lazy plot device and the same things constantly happen.

1230
01:16:06.359 --> 01:16:11.399
He teams up with aliens and then it all goes horribly wrong and, you know, the doctor has to help him out or whatever.

1231
01:16:11.460 --> 01:16:18.000
And you don't need a complex motivation for anyone because it's the master, he's evil and, you know.

1232
01:16:18.060 --> 01:16:29.460
And the big, the big telltale thing, and again, this is probably a sander for thing, where there's a sort of attempt at moral complexity in Doctor Who and the Silurians.

1233
01:16:29.520 --> 01:16:39.180
But once you bring the master in a couple of years later for the sea devils, that all just goes out the window because of the Masters E Vol and we, you know, know why he's behaving the way he does.

1234
01:16:39.300 --> 01:16:43.020
So he's he's a lazy plot device.

1235
01:16:43.079 --> 01:16:45.180
And of course, I think he's been great in the new series.

1236
01:16:45.239 --> 01:16:46.800
I'm not a fan of Ainley at all.

1237
01:16:46.859 --> 01:16:47.699
Do you know what I mean?

1238
01:16:47.760 --> 01:16:50.760
I think that there's no point in bringing him back in 98?

1239
01:16:51.119 --> 01:16:53.460
Has it ever worked bringing him back?

1240
01:16:53.520 --> 01:16:56.279
I think John Sims master is terrific.

1241
01:16:56.340 --> 01:16:58.199
I was going to talk about Michelle.

1242
01:16:58.260 --> 01:17:01.439
And I think Michelle Gomez is fantastic as the master as well.

1243
01:17:01.500 --> 01:17:04.979
And of course, Derek Jacoby. and Derek Jacoby, yeah. twice.

1244
01:17:05.039 --> 01:17:10.260
But like bringing him back after Delgado in the classic series...

1245
01:17:10.380 --> 01:17:11.520
I love Jeffrey Beavers, though.

1246
01:17:11.579 --> 01:17:13.500
Yeah, Jeffrey Beavers is very good.

1247
01:17:13.560 --> 01:17:14.699
I love him in the audio.

1248
01:17:14.760 --> 01:17:15.840
Yeah, he's back playing it.

1249
01:17:15.899 --> 01:17:16.260
Great voice.

1250
01:17:16.319 --> 01:17:16.800
Yeah.

1251
01:17:16.859 --> 01:17:18.479
Well, he's really excellent in the audio.

1252
01:17:18.539 --> 01:17:21.060
He's especially excellent opposite Tom Louise James.

1253
01:17:21.119 --> 01:17:25.020
I've just had him read because he reads a lot.

1254
01:17:25.140 --> 01:17:25.680
To you personally.

1255
01:17:25.739 --> 01:17:27.000
Nathan knows everyone.

1256
01:17:27.060 --> 01:17:31.439
He comes around and just sits on the end of my bed and reads Dr. in the doomsday way.

1257
01:17:31.500 --> 01:17:32.880
In the latex drippy mask.

1258
01:17:32.939 --> 01:17:33.899
Yeah, mostly.

1259
01:17:33.899 --> 01:17:34.800
Yeah, yeah.

1260
01:17:34.859 --> 01:17:36.119
But what are you wearing?

1261
01:17:36.239 --> 01:17:40.920
Sometimes you just climb inside a grandfather clock, don't you?

1262
01:17:40.979 --> 01:17:43.439
Sometimes get him to dress like Michelle Gomez.

1263
01:17:44.159 --> 01:17:47.520
I thought you might dress up as a council casio.

1264
01:17:47.760 --> 01:17:49.739
Worship flu.

1265
01:17:49.800 --> 01:17:50.579
I'm Luvic.

1266
01:17:51.539 --> 01:17:59.460
So, no, because he reads, he reads a lot of the audiobooks of the target normalisations. and he's got a lovely voice and he does a great job.

1267
01:17:59.520 --> 01:18:00.420
So smooth.

1268
01:18:00.539 --> 01:18:01.260
Yeah, yeah.

1269
01:18:01.319 --> 01:18:05.220
But thanks to Delgado, it is, it's Delgado's performance.

1270
01:18:05.279 --> 01:18:06.000
He charming.

1271
01:18:06.060 --> 01:18:07.319
He's really funny.

1272
01:18:07.560 --> 01:18:14.819
He just is, you know, compelling to watch in a way that Pertwe himself often isn't.

1273
01:18:14.880 --> 01:18:22.739
You know, I do think he's a great character with all of those caveats. caveats, rather than cravat soup.

1274
01:18:22.800 --> 01:18:29.340
He might be dressed simply, but actually, that's the problem for me under the classic series master, the Delgado master.

1275
01:18:29.399 --> 01:18:32.279
I agree there is only one other than Mr. Beaver's.

1276
01:18:32.340 --> 01:18:37.500
And it's nice that they, when they did bring him back, firstly, they brought him back emaciated and kept.

1277
01:18:37.560 --> 01:18:39.180
I would like 2 of him to have stayed that way, actually.

1278
01:18:39.239 --> 01:18:46.079
Um, we didn't we didn't really need good old Tony Ainley, and I love him as dreamist, but I don't think we needed his master.

1279
01:18:46.199 --> 01:18:52.739
It's a sad thing, or it's a disappointing thing, which is probably the worst criticism you can make about anyone in life, the D word.

1280
01:18:52.800 --> 01:18:57.960
I don't think he's given material mostly to match what he can do.

1281
01:18:58.020 --> 01:19:00.180
I really like him in terror of the autons.

1282
01:19:00.239 --> 01:19:01.500
He's terrific and he's funny.

1283
01:19:01.560 --> 01:19:06.539
I actually really like him in the demons, but again, we've got that sense, Todd said, of this master fatigue.

1284
01:19:06.600 --> 01:19:09.180
So by the end of his time, there we go again.

1285
01:19:09.239 --> 01:19:13.380
Um, I mean, you can see that Roger was also feeling a little bit awkward with it.

1286
01:19:13.439 --> 01:19:17.760
I felt that there was a certain sense of him thinking, well, how do I make this work?

1287
01:19:17.880 --> 01:19:19.739
It's kind of a bit difficult to just do.

1288
01:19:19.800 --> 01:19:21.180
Shall I just ramp it up a little bit more?

1289
01:19:21.239 --> 01:19:22.619
That's really the only place I can go.

1290
01:19:22.680 --> 01:19:24.840
But as far as threatening.

1291
01:19:24.899 --> 01:19:29.460
He's about as threatening as a flaming Frangelico with a toasting marshmallow in the middle of it.

1292
01:19:29.520 --> 01:19:31.859
It's not, I never feel really bothered by him.

1293
01:19:31.920 --> 01:19:32.579
And yes, you're right.

1294
01:19:32.640 --> 01:19:35.159
I actually came to like him more than the doctor in these last days.

1295
01:19:35.399 --> 01:19:36.720
Well, that's the danger you see.

1296
01:19:36.840 --> 01:19:47.220
I think that that's the danger that the master poses, and it's explicitly the danger that John Sims master poses in sound of drums, is what do we know about Time Lords?

1297
01:19:47.279 --> 01:19:51.300
Well, what we know is they are the star of Doctor Who.

1298
01:19:51.359 --> 01:19:55.920
And so the thread is that he becomes the star of Doctor Who.

1299
01:19:55.979 --> 01:19:57.600
And it's explicitly there later.

1300
01:19:57.659 --> 01:20:09.000
But here, you know, in season 8 and season 9, he does sort of threatened to take over the show because he's so fun and so compelling to watch.

1301
01:20:09.060 --> 01:20:10.560
And there are stories.

1302
01:20:10.560 --> 01:20:21.359
But there are stories of Pertuid being annoyed at all of the billing that Delgado's getting in the pre-publicity for season eight.

1303
01:20:21.600 --> 01:20:25.560
So there is a real sense in which he threatens to take over the show.

1304
01:20:25.619 --> 01:20:27.180
Would you be annoyed?

1305
01:20:27.239 --> 01:20:35.220
Well, maybe, maybe, but Pertwe's vulnerability kind of, you know, speaks in and of itself and it's kind of well known now, so...

1306
01:20:35.699 --> 01:20:52.020
But it's kind of what happened to a lot of a lot of the Doctor Who companion actresses, especially, say, Carolyn Ford, and yeah, Carolyn John, who were promised these really interesting complex characters, but then that doesn't actually happen in the series.

1307
01:20:52.199 --> 01:20:56.220
I do understand pertly getting a bit annoyed about that.

1308
01:20:56.279 --> 01:21:08.579
I think what mitigated that for him was that Roger Delgado was already a friend of his and, of course, Roger Delgado, the man by all reports was just this amazingly warm, giving, friendly actor.

1309
01:21:08.640 --> 01:21:17.220
It's a bit like later on we're getting ahead of ourselves, but Tom Baker hated working with K9 because it ate into studio production time.

1310
01:21:17.279 --> 01:21:19.439
It was hard to do 2 shots, et cetera, et cetera.

1311
01:21:19.500 --> 01:21:20.880
But he loved John Leeson.

1312
01:21:20.939 --> 01:21:28.859
And so he put up with the aggravation of the tin dog because he really liked his costar.

1313
01:21:28.920 --> 01:21:31.800
And I think that's possibly the case for Pertwe as well.

1314
01:21:31.859 --> 01:21:34.800
He may not have liked sharing the screen, but if he was going to share the screen.

1315
01:21:34.859 --> 01:21:40.079
He's this lovely actor whom I've worked with before and whom I think is absolutely wonderful.

1316
01:21:40.140 --> 01:21:42.239
You should have played him like Muffy, shouldn't he?

1317
01:21:42.359 --> 01:21:45.420
In Battlestog, Galactica, obviously, is.

1318
01:21:45.420 --> 01:21:49.739
Who was a man in a dog in a furry dog suit with a metal dog collar?

1319
01:21:49.800 --> 01:21:50.100
remember that?

1320
01:21:50.760 --> 01:21:57.539
There was actually some talk of bringing Muffy back in some way, shape, or form in the reboot of Galactica.

1321
01:21:57.600 --> 01:22:12.180
Actually, I think you do see a dog in the background of a shot, a proper dog in the Battlestar Galactica pilot with the with the child, because there's a child in there as well who has a minor role in the Battlestar pilot which didn't make it to the series and that was going to be the new boxy.

1322
01:22:12.420 --> 01:22:14.880
So Snob Mary avoids.

1323
01:22:14.939 --> 01:22:15.420
Oh god.

1324
01:22:15.479 --> 01:22:16.260
The master.

1325
01:22:16.319 --> 01:22:18.119
Omega.

1326
01:22:18.180 --> 01:22:19.380
Zar.

1327
01:22:19.500 --> 01:22:22.140
Azal is so terrible.

1328
01:22:22.859 --> 01:22:26.100
And those legs, you know, like I said it before.

1329
01:22:26.100 --> 01:22:27.420
They're not as good as they should be, are they?

1330
01:22:27.479 --> 01:22:36.960
But they're kind of, they've got like, I think he's not meant to be wearing tights, but his his legs are all sort of crinkled and...

1331
01:22:37.020 --> 01:22:37.439
Yeah, exactly.

1332
01:22:37.500 --> 01:22:38.939
It's a question of grooming and deportment.

1333
01:22:39.000 --> 01:22:42.300
He'd put a cut like a knife through the bedsheets of those hools.

1334
01:22:42.600 --> 01:22:46.619
I have to say that the omega thing is all terribly underrated.

1335
01:22:46.680 --> 01:22:51.119
Like he gets to be king of a universe where he can create whatever he wants through the power of thought.

1336
01:22:51.180 --> 01:22:53.159
And all he can do is bitch about it.

1337
01:22:53.340 --> 01:22:55.079
Just shut up.

1338
01:22:55.140 --> 01:22:56.399
Enjoy yourself.

1339
01:22:56.460 --> 01:22:57.239
You know what?

1340
01:22:57.300 --> 01:23:02.039
I'd avoid a Zarve for the obvious cloven hoof. 17 metre tall reasons.

1341
01:23:02.100 --> 01:23:08.279
I'd snog Roger, because look, you can't you can't trust the master to marry him.

1342
01:23:08.340 --> 01:23:08.819
You just can't.

1343
01:23:08.939 --> 01:23:16.680
So I'd marry Omega because what he really, really needs is an interior decorator to say, look, okay, you can come drop anything.

1344
01:23:16.739 --> 01:23:18.060
Give me an ottoman over here.

1345
01:23:18.119 --> 01:23:21.659
Give me a give me a storage chest over there, put an office here.

1346
01:23:21.720 --> 01:23:24.600
Look, you've got so much space you can do with this stuff.

1347
01:23:24.659 --> 01:23:29.520
It should be mentioned that my reality TV guilty pleasure is home renovation programs.

1348
01:23:29.579 --> 01:23:32.159
Um, so maybe that's where I'm coming from.

1349
01:23:32.220 --> 01:23:39.000
But yeah, I think I'd marry Omega because obviously he needs a brain to use his powers to build a nice place.

1350
01:23:39.060 --> 01:23:41.399
Yeah, you know, if you're saying, forget this domination.

1351
01:23:41.460 --> 01:23:42.899
Let's have a lovely mansion.

1352
01:23:42.960 --> 01:23:43.560
Lovely things.

1353
01:23:43.560 --> 01:23:44.399
Lovely things.

1354
01:23:44.460 --> 01:23:49.319
Just surround yourself with lovely things, Omega, and you'll forget about this emptiness of existence.

1355
01:23:49.439 --> 01:23:52.560
That's it, a giant Olympic pool full of vodka.

1356
01:23:52.619 --> 01:23:54.659
Just whip it up, Omega darling.

1357
01:23:54.720 --> 01:23:56.220
So speaking of lovely things.

1358
01:23:56.279 --> 01:23:58.619
Oh, have I done my strog?

1359
01:23:58.680 --> 01:24:00.479
You're just going to avoid it, so honestly.

1360
01:24:00.479 --> 01:24:02.279
I just haven't asked.

1361
01:24:02.340 --> 01:24:04.560
I think the rest of us avoided it actually. click it in.

1362
01:24:04.619 --> 01:24:10.560
Yeah, I think we'd end up on the set of to the manor born. and try to be married to a...

1363
01:24:10.560 --> 01:24:11.039
Who are you married?

1364
01:24:11.760 --> 01:24:17.640
Well, Omega is Penelope Keith. he's having to, you know, having to reinvent the palace that he's lost.

1365
01:24:17.640 --> 01:24:26.460
And the master would then have to be Richard DeVere, who's the new kid on the block with all the money, but he can't quite seem to make it work.

1366
01:24:26.520 --> 01:24:27.539
Can he really?

1367
01:24:27.600 --> 01:24:29.699
And Azar is...

1368
01:24:29.760 --> 01:24:30.420
It's a mother.

1369
01:24:30.479 --> 01:24:40.199
Azal is Mrs. Pulovuski, you know, who buries her fruitcake up in the backyard for 3 weeks, but and keeps and keeps seeing fetches. doesn't she?

1370
01:24:40.260 --> 01:24:42.600
Because she's also mother, what's her name?

1371
01:24:42.659 --> 01:24:43.500
Not Mother Shipton.

1372
01:24:43.560 --> 01:24:44.460
Who was she again?

1373
01:24:44.520 --> 01:24:45.300
And the classic series.

1374
01:24:45.359 --> 01:24:46.500
She's an image of the Fendal.

1375
01:24:46.560 --> 01:24:47.640
Oh, yeah, she's Mar Tyler.

1376
01:24:47.699 --> 01:24:48.840
She's Mart Tyler.

1377
01:24:48.899 --> 01:24:51.779
She's Mark Tyler, yes. in the back in the back.

1378
01:24:51.840 --> 01:24:56.340
Oh, look, you know, probably Snogger, just because, no, I marry Omiger.

1379
01:24:56.399 --> 01:24:56.880
Definitely.

1380
01:24:56.939 --> 01:24:57.539
Definitely.

1381
01:24:57.600 --> 01:25:02.159
I wouldn't, wouldn't kiss Roger, because again, I was thinking of 70s dental hygiene.

1382
01:25:03.479 --> 01:25:11.460
I'm just imagining now, you know, that scene of to the manor born where Audrey goes to a supermarket for the...

1383
01:25:11.520 --> 01:25:13.979
I'm just imagining Oh my God.

1384
01:25:14.039 --> 01:25:16.020
Who shall serve me now?

1385
01:25:16.079 --> 01:25:20.340
If no one is coming to remove my helmet, I shall do it myself.

1386
01:25:20.399 --> 01:25:22.920
See, it really works, doesn't it?

1387
01:25:22.979 --> 01:25:23.819
It really works.

1388
01:25:23.880 --> 01:25:26.039
I'm Marjorie in that scenario.

1389
01:25:26.100 --> 01:25:28.439
I mean, you're Marjorie in this scenario.

1390
01:25:28.500 --> 01:25:34.020
We're heading towards Exxon, Spiriton, Helladon.

1391
01:25:34.439 --> 01:25:38.340
Okay, are we talking Pell Minor or Pell Royal?

1392
01:25:38.399 --> 01:25:39.359
You can chew.

1393
01:25:39.420 --> 01:25:41.819
You're looking expectantly at me, Nathan.

1394
01:25:41.880 --> 01:25:48.539
Well, I think I'm going to marry Spiriton because, you know, they're invisible and if I just let myself go.

1395
01:25:48.600 --> 01:25:49.800
Do you know what I mean?

1396
01:25:49.920 --> 01:25:51.479
After a few decades?

1397
01:25:51.539 --> 01:25:53.880
Like what are they going to complain about?

1398
01:25:53.939 --> 01:25:54.779
Do you know what I mean?

1399
01:25:54.840 --> 01:25:58.560
Like West is not even visible and by the way, why aren't you wearing some clones?

1400
01:25:58.680 --> 01:26:01.739
So that's what I would marry.

1401
01:26:01.800 --> 01:26:05.640
Paladon, I think a quick snog with David Troughton.

1402
01:26:05.699 --> 01:26:07.199
Not the first.

1403
01:26:07.260 --> 01:26:09.300
Well, no, and I can think worse things.

1404
01:26:09.420 --> 01:26:18.239
And Excellon will obviously avoid because like my laptop's not going to work and the Apple Watch isn't going to work and like the whole place is just a complete washout.

1405
01:26:18.659 --> 01:26:22.260
I think I'd marry King Peladin.

1406
01:26:22.800 --> 01:26:26.340
Or a peloton.

1407
01:26:26.399 --> 01:26:27.840
I'd even marry Queens Valeria.

1408
01:26:27.899 --> 01:26:29.159
The lira.

1409
01:26:29.220 --> 01:26:29.880
Lira?

1410
01:26:29.880 --> 01:26:30.420
Lira?

1411
01:26:30.479 --> 01:26:31.260
I'm watching it for her.

1412
01:26:32.640 --> 01:26:35.039
If she wants the money back.

1413
01:26:35.220 --> 01:26:39.239
So I think I'd have to Snogwester.

1414
01:26:39.300 --> 01:26:43.020
Just because, you know, it'd be fun to try and find it on an invisible being.

1415
01:26:43.319 --> 01:26:55.020
And so I'd avoid an excellent because I am, when it comes to my hands, I don't like my hands, you know, if I'm if I'm working on something that makes my hands dirty, that's fine at the time, but I have to clean them against right away.

1416
01:26:55.079 --> 01:26:58.979
So if I'm living in a China clay quarry, that's never going to work.

1417
01:26:59.039 --> 01:27:03.539
So yeah, I'd have, I'd have to, as much as I love Bala, I think he's wonderful.

1418
01:27:03.600 --> 01:27:05.039
I think we need to stay as just friends.

1419
01:27:05.460 --> 01:27:17.880
Well, I'm going to excellent to snorg, wow, and just just to be shown the ruins of the great city and everything and get his personal story about the events that what happened and who he met.

1420
01:27:17.939 --> 01:27:21.180
I will be marrying Peladon.

1421
01:27:21.239 --> 01:27:24.000
Well, one of the royals anyway, because I'm not going to be one of the minors.

1422
01:27:24.000 --> 01:27:26.220
And I'm a boarding spirit.

1423
01:27:26.279 --> 01:27:28.439
Well, you know exactly what.

1424
01:27:28.439 --> 01:27:33.539
Because they drag you away when you're knocked out and pull goo on your arm.

1425
01:27:33.600 --> 01:27:37.020
So there's poisonous plants, there's ice fishes.

1426
01:27:37.079 --> 01:27:41.279
There's invisible people and I hate that story, therefore I'm avoiding it.

1427
01:27:41.340 --> 01:27:43.739
And there's the BBC sound record as well.

1428
01:27:43.800 --> 01:27:45.779
I just keep going round and around and around.

1429
01:27:45.840 --> 01:27:47.520
I want that to be the soundtrack to my life.

1430
01:27:48.239 --> 01:27:50.939
I don't know that it isn't, really.

1431
01:27:50.939 --> 01:28:09.779
Well, I'm sitting here in the backyard of a house in Surbiton up to my knees in Chookpoo, digging away with my lovely wife, King Peladon. and next door and our lovely and our lovely agador that we keep in the back pin because we've turned it.

1432
01:28:09.840 --> 01:28:18.119
We've turned our lovely suburban house into a make as you go farm and next door we have Penelope Keith as played by...

1433
01:28:18.119 --> 01:28:24.720
Jenny Laird. yes Yes, she is.

1434
01:28:24.779 --> 01:28:25.380
Yeah, yeah, she is.

1435
01:28:25.439 --> 01:28:25.739
She is.

1436
01:28:25.800 --> 01:28:30.119
And she's married to that invisible guy because Paul Eddington had almost nothing to do.

1437
01:28:30.180 --> 01:28:31.680
Yeah, you can.

1438
01:28:31.680 --> 01:28:34.140
Your favourite writer.

1439
01:28:34.199 --> 01:28:35.340
Pop Holmes.

1440
01:28:35.399 --> 01:28:36.239
Bob Holmes.

1441
01:28:36.359 --> 01:28:38.220
Oh, Mac Hulk.

1442
01:28:38.279 --> 01:28:40.079
Oh, okay, yeah, yeah.

1443
01:28:40.140 --> 01:28:42.180
Actually, that's a good show. is really good.

1444
01:28:42.239 --> 01:28:49.380
But I think I have to choose Michael, big holes, with the exception of a couple of earlier sort of pre-goes before he was at his peak.

1445
01:28:49.439 --> 01:28:51.300
His peak is in the hurt we era.

1446
01:28:51.359 --> 01:28:53.880
He's there every year, always reliable.

1447
01:28:53.880 --> 01:28:55.500
Giant listens every year.

1448
01:28:55.560 --> 01:28:56.699
Giant lizards everywhere.

1449
01:28:56.760 --> 01:28:57.720
Yeah, yeah.

1450
01:28:57.779 --> 01:28:59.819
I like that he gave us pre-gos as well.

1451
01:28:59.819 --> 01:29:00.359
It's huge.

1452
01:29:00.420 --> 01:29:01.680
Yeah, yeah.

1453
01:29:01.739 --> 01:29:04.260
And, you know, even the Pre-Gos are good. faceless one's good.

1454
01:29:04.319 --> 01:29:06.060
Wargame is very good.

1455
01:29:06.420 --> 01:29:09.779
And he even wrote half Ambassadors of Death, really.

1456
01:29:09.899 --> 01:29:13.319
Yeah, after Whittaker was moving to Australia.

1457
01:29:13.380 --> 01:29:19.560
And like so much of the legacy of the Pertsu era is in the novels for us.

1458
01:29:19.619 --> 01:29:21.239
That's why we liked it.

1459
01:29:21.300 --> 01:29:23.220
That's why we liked it because they're great.

1460
01:29:23.340 --> 01:29:29.520
And the reason that... is Malcolm Hulk's novelisations are all just...

1461
01:29:29.640 --> 01:29:32.819
Terrence's early ones are really good, and Terrence's very last novel, is it?

1462
01:29:32.880 --> 01:29:36.539
Terrence's last novelisations was ambassadors of death. you ever read?

1463
01:29:36.659 --> 01:29:38.039
It's really good.

1464
01:29:38.100 --> 01:29:39.539
They probably had time.

1465
01:29:39.659 --> 01:29:40.319
Yeah, exactly.

1466
01:29:40.380 --> 01:29:43.020
He's got reinventions. turn out 3 a week anymore.

1467
01:29:43.079 --> 01:29:48.300
Yeah, he'd been doing conventions and the kids had been saying how good he was and there's nothing like a bit of praise to get an artist.

1468
01:29:48.300 --> 01:29:51.420
Whatever kind of art they do. to put some work in.

1469
01:29:51.600 --> 01:29:53.760
He deserves a great deal of praise for that entire line.

1470
01:29:53.819 --> 01:29:57.600
You know, he's, you know, he's the heart and soul of it, I think.

1471
01:29:57.659 --> 01:30:27.659
But I think that Malcolm Hulk brought something really just extra to the table and wasn't afraid to sort of junk the structure of the story as we saw it on the screen in order to produce something a bit more interesting and just think about Shuey McPherson that we talked about at the beginning of the invasion of the dinosaurs, which is just such a spectacularly interesting and economical way of telling the story of what happened to London that caused it to become evacuated.

1472
01:30:27.720 --> 01:30:33.300
It's so well done, just told from the point of view of a single person who doesn't get a mention on the screen.

1473
01:30:33.359 --> 01:30:34.260
He's not even in it.

1474
01:30:34.500 --> 01:30:36.060
Yeah, yeah.

1475
01:30:36.119 --> 01:30:37.079
So he's he's great.

1476
01:30:37.140 --> 01:30:37.859
I think he's great.

1477
01:30:37.979 --> 01:30:46.020
He also the one who tells that whole chapter of the green death from the maggot's point of view, which is, again, just so well done.

1478
01:30:46.079 --> 01:30:51.300
Yeah, they're the 2 writers, Bob Holmes and Med Hog. who would be the ones I would choose from.

1479
01:30:51.359 --> 01:30:52.439
I'm not going to pick one or the other.

1480
01:30:52.439 --> 01:30:55.020
Is there any overrated writer?

1481
01:30:55.859 --> 01:30:57.060
Well, no, there isn't.

1482
01:30:57.119 --> 01:31:03.180
I mean, I know that Nathan might throw something in just for, you know, alacrity and amusement, but we all know that actually he really loves everyone.

1483
01:31:03.479 --> 01:31:05.460
Robert Sloman.

1484
01:31:05.699 --> 01:31:09.960
Sloan has a totally undeserved reputation for not being crap.

1485
01:31:12.659 --> 01:31:15.000
Marlena Dietrich sitting here.

1486
01:31:15.000 --> 01:31:16.260
He's not as...

1487
01:31:16.319 --> 01:31:18.060
He's not as good as...

1488
01:31:18.060 --> 01:31:19.619
Oh, come on, Planet of the Spider.

1489
01:31:19.680 --> 01:31:21.359
Yeah, Planet of the Spider is good.

1490
01:31:21.420 --> 01:31:23.640
And then there's Bob Baker and Dave Martin, who are terrible as well.

1491
01:31:23.699 --> 01:31:25.859
I don't think that's great ideas.

1492
01:31:25.920 --> 01:31:28.140
They just have a dozen ideas every 3 minutes.

1493
01:31:28.199 --> 01:31:32.039
You want to know who I'm going to say is overrated in the per we era?

1494
01:31:32.100 --> 01:31:33.420
Very nation.

1495
01:31:33.479 --> 01:31:34.260
Ouch.

1496
01:31:34.260 --> 01:31:35.819
How could you say that?

1497
01:31:35.880 --> 01:31:37.680
That's tarantulas, isn't it?

1498
01:31:37.800 --> 01:31:49.739
But, you know, he, he, the main reason we got planet is because, well, is because quite understandably, he said, you're not allowed to use my creations without permission.

1499
01:31:49.800 --> 01:31:55.079
It took 2 years for Barry and Terrence, turn around and say, you're just feeding us the same stuff as everyone before.

1500
01:31:55.140 --> 01:32:02.579
Prepare a new story and when we'll see in a few weeks, when he does prepare a brand new story, it's a bloody corker.

1501
01:32:02.640 --> 01:32:03.960
How much of that is here?

1502
01:32:04.020 --> 01:32:04.560
Is he?

1503
01:32:04.619 --> 01:32:06.359
Let's wait and find out, dear listen.

1504
01:32:06.420 --> 01:32:07.260
That'll be an interesting podcast.

1505
01:32:07.319 --> 01:32:09.239
We know things, don't we?

1506
01:32:09.359 --> 01:32:10.560
Jenny Leaderward.

1507
01:32:10.619 --> 01:32:12.180
I mean, normally so many things in season two.

1508
01:32:12.239 --> 01:32:12.720
Yes, I know.

1509
01:32:12.779 --> 01:32:13.680
We tried to stop you.

1510
01:32:14.100 --> 01:32:18.779
One thing does spring to mind and I think that's the way in which Ms. Shore is written out.

1511
01:32:20.220 --> 01:32:25.079
Yeah, it's a way in which she's written out and I think that's a creative puzzling choice.

1512
01:32:25.199 --> 01:32:28.920
Um, and I would have liked to have seen some conclusion to that character.

1513
01:32:29.039 --> 01:32:31.380
I think that's a good one and I think...

1514
01:32:31.500 --> 01:32:45.420
It is, it's one thing that they go on and get right and that they get right for the 1st time because the one thing that you don't realise is that up until now for the 1st 6 years of Doctor Who, the cast changed once a year or more.

1515
01:32:45.479 --> 01:32:50.880
And now we've had this regular cast, you know, from seasons 8, 9, and 10.

1516
01:32:51.180 --> 01:32:53.880
You've got the same regular cast all the way through.

1517
01:32:53.939 --> 01:33:03.779
You've got the longest chronologically, I guess, apart from phrase, perhaps the longest companion, but certainly the longer serving creative team and all of that sort of thing.

1518
01:33:03.840 --> 01:33:05.159
The show's remarkably consistent.

1519
01:33:05.220 --> 01:33:15.000
And so they're getting rid of Liz is a big misstep, but she's a bit of a casualty of the retooling that they do at the beginning of season 8. the right word, yeah.

1520
01:33:15.000 --> 01:33:16.500
It's not entirely puzzling.

1521
01:33:16.560 --> 01:33:18.359
No, it's misogynist.

1522
01:33:18.420 --> 01:33:20.340
Well, I don't know that it's misogynist.

1523
01:33:20.399 --> 01:33:21.720
Well, maybe.

1524
01:33:21.779 --> 01:33:29.220
Like Terrence always likes to tell the story that in a way that makes him sound like a sexist idiot, not a huge stretch.

1525
01:33:29.340 --> 01:33:30.000
No, I know.

1526
01:33:30.060 --> 01:33:33.600
But Katie comes in and kind of and rescues that.

1527
01:33:33.600 --> 01:33:35.039
Yeah, that's because she's so charming herself.

1528
01:33:35.520 --> 01:33:46.979
It's something that I recognise as a problem that they fix straight away and we go from maybe the worst companion departure with Liz to the best companion comparture up till now with the green. they might from their mistakes, didn't they?

1529
01:33:47.039 --> 01:33:48.539
So definitely say that at that team.

1530
01:33:49.020 --> 01:34:05.220
I think the puzzling creative choice is the end of season finale for eight, nine, 10, and some degree 11, getting Sloman to do it, ensuring, you know, like you have the Slow man.

1531
01:34:05.939 --> 01:34:10.199
Giving them 6 episodes to kind of fap around in.

1532
01:34:10.260 --> 01:34:31.800
And so every single season ends on this sort of badly paced, badly conceived, kind of mess of a story, with, I think, the exception of Green Death, which is spectacular, and to some degree, Planet of the Spider, which is lifted by Liz and by the whole departure thing.

1533
01:34:31.859 --> 01:34:36.000
But I just don't know why they structured the seasons like that every year.

1534
01:34:36.060 --> 01:34:37.920
I think mine has to be.

1535
01:34:37.979 --> 01:34:41.819
It's a combination of factors rather than any one decision.

1536
01:34:41.880 --> 01:34:47.699
So in season nine, um, they invited the Bristol boys to write again, Bob Baker and Dave Martin.

1537
01:34:47.760 --> 01:34:55.739
Now, the previous season with Bob Baker and Dave Martin, they got in Michael Ferguson to direct that one because they've got an inexperienced writer, they get an experienced director.

1538
01:34:55.979 --> 01:34:57.899
Next time around.

1539
01:34:57.960 --> 01:35:03.300
They give them the 3 doctors because they're capable of writing quite quickly and adapting to certain situations.

1540
01:35:03.359 --> 01:35:08.100
They get Delenny Maine to direct that, who directed the acclaimed cursor peladon, the previous year.

1541
01:35:08.159 --> 01:35:15.960
The mutants is really an oddity because they get Christopher Barry back, who hasn't directed Doctor Who for many years.

1542
01:35:16.319 --> 01:35:29.340
And so we have a combination of an inexperienced scriptwriting team with a very ambitious script and a director who hasn't worked under the current Doctor Who production machine before.

1543
01:35:29.399 --> 01:35:32.399
It's a really silly idea to do that.

1544
01:35:32.460 --> 01:35:41.520
I think if they were going to get Christopher Barry, they should have given him even something like Dave the Daleks or the Time Monster, especially he directed Daleks before.

1545
01:35:41.579 --> 01:35:48.899
And, you know, we did comment that Paul Bernard's direction of the Daleks themselves fell a bit flat, whereas his direction of people was quite good.

1546
01:35:49.800 --> 01:35:51.720
So swap those around.

1547
01:35:51.779 --> 01:35:55.800
I mean, even if Paul Bernard comes into there, he had a lot of visual flair and style.

1548
01:35:55.800 --> 01:35:59.039
And yeah, the mutants doesn't really translate for that.

1549
01:35:59.100 --> 01:36:08.399
And yeah, I think that maybe that's what the problem with the mutants boils down to, there's too much inexperience going, oh, you've got like an inexperienced actor playing a major supporting role.

1550
01:36:08.460 --> 01:36:21.180
You've got inexperienced writers, writing a much longer story than they'd previously written, and you've got A very experienced director, but not experienced under the current ages of Doctor Who.

1551
01:36:21.239 --> 01:36:26.939
So that's my puzzling creative choice is the creative, the whole creative team for the mutants.

1552
01:36:27.000 --> 01:36:29.460
And perhaps it could have been arranged better.

1553
01:36:29.520 --> 01:36:33.600
Even the ones that don't come across as being wholly successful.

1554
01:36:33.659 --> 01:36:36.840
And it's actually those damaged goods that we get, isn't it?

1555
01:36:36.960 --> 01:36:52.560
Not entirely working, but there is, that just seems to reveal the parts that do work and that you get to see when the oil isn't quite clicking in with the cogs, that you see how well people are performing in the machinery itself, which is probably why I like the Robert Sloman stories.

1556
01:36:52.560 --> 01:36:57.960
Because the individual performances stand out, if the whole thing is maybe lumbering.

1557
01:36:58.020 --> 01:37:00.239
People put that much extra work.

1558
01:37:00.300 --> 01:37:01.859
I really like time Monster.

1559
01:37:01.920 --> 01:37:03.659
There is many people who do.

1560
01:37:03.720 --> 01:37:06.899
Again, terrible pertry is never that terrible.

1561
01:37:06.960 --> 01:37:09.420
It's enjoying time, monster.

1562
01:37:09.479 --> 01:37:13.500
If we were to take anything away from today's podcasts, it's probably it.

1563
01:37:13.500 --> 01:37:16.859
If the listener was thinking, oh, you know, what would I watch of these?

1564
01:37:16.920 --> 01:37:21.000
I think you can jump into any of our best or worst and you'll find something to enjoy in them.

1565
01:37:21.539 --> 01:37:28.020
Hmm I'm incredibly irritating on these on these yeses or no, these binary divisions.

1566
01:37:28.079 --> 01:37:38.939
Because again, if I had to think of something that I thought was truly, truly awful, for whatever unsuccessful reason in the per wheat era, it would probably be one of the ones that doesn't quite float.

1567
01:37:39.000 --> 01:37:43.560
And there's a few to choose from, but I haven't got any off the top of my head.

1568
01:37:43.680 --> 01:37:47.760
How about the cravat he chooses to wear in the paladon?

1569
01:37:47.819 --> 01:37:49.380
Yes, no, it's a monstrous thing.

1570
01:37:49.439 --> 01:37:50.100
I agree.

1571
01:37:50.159 --> 01:37:51.420
Monstrous thing.

1572
01:37:51.479 --> 01:37:52.140
It's a cravat.

1573
01:37:52.199 --> 01:37:52.800
Thank you, Nathan.

1574
01:37:53.159 --> 01:37:54.720
Always.

1575
01:37:54.779 --> 01:37:56.640
Although it's a good choice, me think.

1576
01:37:56.699 --> 01:37:57.840
It's a bit Jason King.

1577
01:37:58.560 --> 01:37:59.399
Love that.

1578
01:37:59.460 --> 01:38:01.680
Be negative about something.

1579
01:38:01.739 --> 01:38:07.739
We're about to go into the Hall of Fame board, but I realised that perhaps there's one other question I should ask.

1580
01:38:07.800 --> 01:38:08.819
What is the most overrated?

1581
01:38:08.819 --> 01:38:09.840
Inferno.

1582
01:38:09.899 --> 01:38:10.859
The 5 doctors.

1583
01:38:11.039 --> 01:38:14.880
Yeah, oh, the demons. between the demons and the infam.

1584
01:38:14.939 --> 01:38:16.439
I'm serious about the 5 doctors too.

1585
01:38:16.500 --> 01:38:18.060
I'd agree with the demons.

1586
01:38:18.119 --> 01:38:19.199
Really?

1587
01:38:19.260 --> 01:38:19.680
Yeah.

1588
01:38:19.739 --> 01:38:21.420
Gosh, it's such atmosphere.

1589
01:38:21.479 --> 01:38:24.779
You know, again, I like it, but I don't think it's any better.

1590
01:38:24.840 --> 01:38:25.380
You know what?

1591
01:38:25.380 --> 01:38:29.039
I don't, I don't, it's the best season 8 story, let alone the best...

1592
01:38:29.039 --> 01:38:30.300
You are watching it at the end of the season.

1593
01:38:30.359 --> 01:38:32.159
Do what I did and just watch it out of seats.

1594
01:38:32.220 --> 01:38:34.500
That's not the point.

1595
01:38:34.619 --> 01:38:36.779
That's kind of our shtick.

1596
01:38:36.899 --> 01:38:54.600
See, I see, I think that's the whole point about that story is that if you were trying to get somebody to watch the poetry year and say this is a bit representative, you've got the master, you've got unit, you've got good friend writing it, it works quite well by itself, but when you start to see it in context, you can see all of its flaws.

1597
01:38:54.659 --> 01:38:55.979
So, in isolation.

1598
01:38:56.039 --> 01:38:57.479
I think it comes across benefit and it does.

1599
01:38:57.720 --> 01:39:06.659
What if we swapped terror of the autons and demons as to 1st and last of that season and just changed the introductory moments, I think, you know, different opinions.

1600
01:39:06.720 --> 01:39:07.500
Maybe.

1601
01:39:07.560 --> 01:39:08.399
Maybe, maybe.

1602
01:39:08.579 --> 01:39:10.859
Okay, Hall of Fame.

1603
01:39:10.920 --> 01:39:12.899
Who are you going to nominate for the Hall of Fame Award?

1604
01:39:13.020 --> 01:39:14.039
Katie Manning.

1605
01:39:14.699 --> 01:39:16.260
Absolutely.

1606
01:39:16.319 --> 01:39:18.180
I just think she's unbelievably good.

1607
01:39:18.239 --> 01:39:19.920
I love watching her.

1608
01:39:19.979 --> 01:39:28.979
You know, there are times when I'm bored by poetry, but whenever she's on the screen, I'm just riveted by her, I think the performance is lovely and human and funny.

1609
01:39:29.039 --> 01:39:33.720
She goes from being competent to being vulnerable very quickly.

1610
01:39:33.779 --> 01:39:51.060
She's frightened and upset sometimes, but never massively distressed or anything, and she's just sort of plucky and funny and loveable, and then she's just gone on to be so, so tremendous, and, and when she comes back in the death of the doctor for Sarah Jane adventures.

1611
01:39:51.119 --> 01:40:02.279
You know, just the idea that she's gone on to have a lovely life and be an activist and continue to be married to Cliff and all of those things, be a lovely grandmother and mother and stuff.

1612
01:40:02.340 --> 01:40:06.000
I just think she is an absolute breakout companion.

1613
01:40:06.060 --> 01:40:06.899
Do you know what I mean?

1614
01:40:06.960 --> 01:40:11.159
Maybe the best since Barbara, a terrific, terrific performance.

1615
01:40:11.220 --> 01:40:13.260
Uh, you know, I love her to death.

1616
01:40:13.319 --> 01:40:14.939
I think she rescues the poetry era.

1617
01:40:15.000 --> 01:40:30.359
Well, I'm going to nominate behind the scenes, and it has to be baronets and turn sticks, who, Baronets, obviously, with his casting of Katie, of Roger, of Liz, of Tom, and the fact that, you know, he Richard Franklin.

1618
01:40:30.420 --> 01:40:32.399
And Richard Franklin.

1619
01:40:32.460 --> 01:40:33.239
And Richard Frank.

1620
01:40:33.300 --> 01:40:55.020
The fact that, you know, he recognises the show needs to change tack in season 8 and and Terrence is the one who, of course, is in charge of, you know, the whole writing team and the reboot, the 2nd reboot and and, you know, making the show familiar to the audiences with all of his little continuity touches with the time lodge and the TARDIS and going back a few stories.

1621
01:40:55.079 --> 01:41:10.439
And I don't think there's any other television shows in the 70s, whether it be British or American, that do that sort of little continuity, which gets the audience in and the familiarity, that it breeds, and people become fans of the show.

1622
01:41:10.500 --> 01:41:22.619
And I think without their vision and his writing team, you know, he cultivates all these writers who can at least deliver stories of a good standard, the show would have folded at the end of season 8.

1623
01:41:22.680 --> 01:41:32.579
And so for me, you know, what those 2 deliver behind the scenes allows people like Katie Manning to come in and do what she does with Joe. So they're my nomination.

1624
01:41:32.640 --> 01:41:34.199
Dixon lets.

1625
01:41:34.260 --> 01:41:35.640
Isn't that a detective show?

1626
01:41:35.699 --> 01:41:37.500
Yeah, the detective show on the holiday?

1627
01:41:37.560 --> 01:41:39.899
on the...

1628
01:41:40.979 --> 01:41:44.340
I'm going to go a bit out on that field here.

1629
01:41:44.399 --> 01:41:46.739
And Jenny Ladd.

1630
01:41:47.220 --> 01:41:51.899
I previously criticised them, but I'm gonna put them in the Hall of Fame.

1631
01:41:51.960 --> 01:41:53.880
Bob Baker and Dave Martin.

1632
01:41:53.939 --> 01:41:54.180
Wow.

1633
01:41:55.319 --> 01:42:06.779
Because despite certainly problems with their scripts, despite sometimes their stories don't quite make sense or aren't made very well.

1634
01:42:06.840 --> 01:42:13.079
They represent the new blood that's coming into Doctor Who at this time.

1635
01:42:13.140 --> 01:42:16.800
They had never worked on the show before, they'd never worked in TV before.

1636
01:42:16.859 --> 01:42:26.939
They were exactly what Barry and Terence were looking for in that their ideas were unfettered by notions of what was even possible. advisable.

1637
01:42:27.060 --> 01:42:29.939
And sometimes those things didn't make it a screen.

1638
01:42:29.939 --> 01:42:31.260
And sometimes they did.

1639
01:42:31.319 --> 01:42:33.479
So contemporaneous, aren't they?

1640
01:42:33.539 --> 01:42:34.619
They are so 1970.

1641
01:42:34.619 --> 01:42:37.260
Yeah, 5 when they're actually writing 72.

1642
01:42:37.380 --> 01:42:37.859
Yeah.

1643
01:42:37.920 --> 01:42:47.520
So, yeah, despite the fact that they are not, I, you know, I would say they've got a hit rate of about 60% with their ideas, which isn't a terribly high hit rate.

1644
01:42:47.579 --> 01:42:52.560
They really represent the spirit of endeavour, which Doctor Who needed at this point.

1645
01:42:52.560 --> 01:42:58.619
Because it needed to constantly be inventing and changing.

1646
01:42:58.619 --> 01:43:04.619
And for whatever else they did, those two, I think, other writers who represent that ideal the most.

1647
01:43:04.680 --> 01:43:06.779
The Bob Baker and Dave Martin.

1648
01:43:06.840 --> 01:43:14.279
I mean, you know, my 1st thoughts jump to the secondary players or tertiary players who really make the story shine.

1649
01:43:14.340 --> 01:43:15.659
So again, because it's season 11.

1650
01:43:15.840 --> 01:43:17.819
It's Arnold Yarrow and Kevin Lindsay.

1651
01:43:17.880 --> 01:43:20.939
I wouldn't you love to see a reboot of the odd couple with those two?

1652
01:43:21.060 --> 01:43:25.020
in the principal roles, says Balal and Chocha, the odd couple.

1653
01:43:25.079 --> 01:43:27.600
But there has to be...

1654
01:43:27.600 --> 01:43:31.199
I love Billell, and I really wish he'd been a companion, Hal, as well.

1655
01:43:31.260 --> 01:43:34.619
I would have loved to have seen Holly Archer and Bilao, maybe just one or 2 stories.

1656
01:43:34.680 --> 01:43:35.340
I'm serious about that.

1657
01:43:35.399 --> 01:43:50.399
But as companions go, I'm re, my greatest regret of this era is that I didn't get more of Carolyn John or that she wasn't, even when she wasn't really well served, she sparkled on screen and you could see that she raised pertway up and he responded to that.

1658
01:43:50.460 --> 01:43:57.000
He was always better and at his most sublime and at his most compassionate and approachable in the little scenes with her.

1659
01:43:57.119 --> 01:44:00.060
So, yeah, I love Caroline John, always to have.

1660
01:44:00.119 --> 01:44:05.159
Well, dear, mister, I think we've reached the end of our discussion of the Pertoy era.

1661
01:44:05.220 --> 01:44:06.539
We've eaten all the sandwiches.

1662
01:44:06.659 --> 01:44:12.119
The sandwiches are gone, scones, muffins, wine, cheese.

1663
01:44:13.380 --> 01:44:15.420
So Toby's cellar.

1664
01:44:15.539 --> 01:44:18.840
We're about to embark on the longest saving doctor.

1665
01:44:18.899 --> 01:44:23.760
Your thoughts, gentlemen, going into this era of Tom Baker.

1666
01:44:23.819 --> 01:44:34.859
My biggest finger is that if they're going to live up to my expectations and that it will go through what the John Pertwe era went through for me 10 or 15 years ago where it aged quite badly and I'm hoping that doesn't happen.

1667
01:44:35.039 --> 01:44:37.079
We're none of us have.

1668
01:44:37.140 --> 01:44:40.079
That's true. ages remarkably well.

1669
01:44:41.039 --> 01:44:42.600
You know what?

1670
01:44:42.659 --> 01:44:44.340
I think I agree with you.

1671
01:44:44.399 --> 01:44:47.039
And something I am really interested to look at.

1672
01:44:47.460 --> 01:44:57.420
There is a debate about whether Sarah's character is weakened with the new doctor if her feminist sensibilities are weakened.

1673
01:44:57.479 --> 01:45:03.420
And I look forward to examining that because I think it's a very interesting debate and discussion.

1674
01:45:03.479 --> 01:45:03.779
Yes.

1675
01:45:03.840 --> 01:45:05.460
Well, the skirt pulled down, yes.

1676
01:45:05.520 --> 01:45:07.500
That's what Ian Miner does properly for.

1677
01:45:07.560 --> 01:45:15.899
Well, I'm very excited to see that the whole team is in this 1st story and I can't wait to see what they do with the unit era in this whole new series.

1678
01:45:15.960 --> 01:45:17.699
I wonder how they're going to develop that one.

1679
01:45:17.819 --> 01:45:20.039
It's kind of really interesting.

1680
01:45:20.100 --> 01:45:21.060
So I can't wait.

1681
01:45:21.119 --> 01:45:23.939
I'll go and get the tissues now for you.

1682
01:45:24.000 --> 01:45:25.619
Well, isn't that good?

1683
01:45:26.399 --> 01:45:29.039
I'm excited by more Bob Holmes.

1684
01:45:29.100 --> 01:45:30.899
He's going to be scripted at us.

1685
01:45:30.960 --> 01:45:31.920
Oh, is he really awkward?

1686
01:45:32.159 --> 01:45:32.880
can't wait to see this.

1687
01:45:32.939 --> 01:45:34.199
Plus, Harry.

1688
01:45:34.319 --> 01:45:35.279
Yes.

1689
01:45:35.399 --> 01:45:37.020
Who's Harry?

1690
01:45:37.079 --> 01:45:38.279
He hasn't occurred yet, has he?

1691
01:45:38.340 --> 01:45:40.800
You know, I mean, the brigadier spoke to him on the phone.

1692
01:45:40.800 --> 01:45:41.760
Yeah, he's been foreshadowed.

1693
01:45:41.819 --> 01:45:44.880
Well, I'm looking for it because, you know, I'm taking this as I've never seen it before.

1694
01:45:44.939 --> 01:45:46.560
So I'll be receiving.

1695
01:45:46.619 --> 01:45:52.380
I'll be reviewing these. as a new viewer because, you know, this is he is my solid 1st doctor.

1696
01:46:04.439 --> 01:46:08.100
We will be back next week, in fact, dear listener.

1697
01:46:08.159 --> 01:46:08.520
That's right.

1698
01:46:08.579 --> 01:46:09.659
We are going weekly.

1699
01:46:09.720 --> 01:46:10.619
What?

1700
01:46:10.680 --> 01:46:13.140
Yes, we're going to a weekly release schedule.

1701
01:46:13.199 --> 01:46:17.399
So that means, Richard, you're not to leave this room until next Wednesday.

1702
01:46:17.460 --> 01:46:19.199
We're going to finish recording.

1703
01:46:19.260 --> 01:46:20.039
Delights, right?

1704
01:46:20.220 --> 01:46:22.500
Can we mention the massacre again?

1705
01:46:22.560 --> 01:46:24.420
Oh, I think we have to.

1706
01:46:24.479 --> 01:46:30.359
So we're going weekly and every week is going to be a re-recording of the massacre until Nathan agrees he likes it.

1707
01:46:30.420 --> 01:46:30.960
No.

1708
01:46:31.439 --> 01:46:36.239
So... for Todd. or space pirates for me.

1709
01:46:36.359 --> 01:46:45.180
We will be back weekly doing one story per week and as a special treat for Tom's 1st year.

1710
01:46:45.300 --> 01:46:49.979
You are getting not just one commentator, nor to nor three.

1711
01:46:50.039 --> 01:46:56.100
All 4 of us will be commenting on Tom Baker's 1st year as the doctor.

1712
01:46:56.159 --> 01:46:58.739
So do stay tuned for that.

1713
01:46:58.800 --> 01:47:00.659
Will we all be alive by the end of it?

1714
01:47:00.720 --> 01:47:01.140
Who knows?

1715
01:47:01.199 --> 01:47:02.100
We'll have to wait and see.

1716
01:47:02.159 --> 01:47:05.399
But until then, thank you very much for listening.

1717
01:47:05.460 --> 01:47:06.840
We will see you next week.

1718
01:47:06.899 --> 01:47:08.340
Good night.

1719
01:47:08.399 --> 01:47:08.880
Good night.

1720
01:47:09.000 --> 01:47:50.699
See you soon. ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, I'm trying to find online, but it doesn't seem to be, um, I think it was Paul Cornell, the, the, um, the multiple choice constructor pertly story.

1721
01:47:50.819 --> 01:47:51.779
Oh, really?

1722
01:47:51.840 --> 01:47:57.840
Like, um, you know, a poacher finds, A, an alien body, B, a crash spacecraft.

1723
01:47:57.899 --> 01:47:59.279
C, a glowing sandwich.

1724
01:48:01.500 --> 01:48:06.060
The doctor, A, reverses the new polarity of the neutron flow.

1725
01:48:06.119 --> 01:48:07.619
B blows them all up.

1726
01:48:07.680 --> 01:48:10.380
C, bores them to death with a moralistic speech.