WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:11:29

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Hello and welcome back to the all-new microsize flight through entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast where everyone's wearing space clothes.

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Or are we?

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd.

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G'day, copper on me too.

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And we're heading into a Doctor Who story filled with regional access.

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Well filled with colonials.

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It's the Santarian experiment.

10
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So, this one was mine, and it's it's such an interesting Doctor Who story.

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It's Doctor Who's 1st story, well, entirely short on location.

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It's not the 1st story entirely shot on video because, of course, a robot had its exteriors done on outside broadcast, but it's the 1st story entirely shot on outside broadcast.

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It is the 1st story produced for this production block.

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It was actually produced after robot, but before arc in space.

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This is essentially Arc in Space's location allocation.

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They were produced as 16 part story, essentially.

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And so I think that that's pretty much all we have to say about the songs that experiment.

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So you are very Tune in next week.

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You are very, very cynical and not at all sardonic nature.

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And very welcome here.

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No, I think it's quite easy to overlook this little 2 part.

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It really is very easy.

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Hang on, hang on, hang on.

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This is part of the gestort entity that is the wondrousness of season 12.

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It works beautifully.

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It sits perfectly.

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Loved it as a boy.

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I remember walking home in winter, very cold winter in 1976 or 76 when this was 1st shown.

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And having this in my head.

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There's something about being on the windy moors.

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Tom in that beautiful chocolate great coat and playing around with his big globe mushrooms on that, which, hello, how did they survive several, many 1000 years sitting on a heath.

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They made a pace hardened dinastream, Richard.

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And he does mention that they are slightly corroded. you know, there you go.

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You've got hilarious results.

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Yeah, Liz Sladen stumbling around in her yellow Mac and her beanie.

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This is proper post-colonial SF, and we don't get that much of it.

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And I'm not just talking about the regional accents.

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I'm actually talking about the whole philosophy.

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Moral philosophy behind it.

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So there's the idea that the people up on Nerva are kind of like privileged posh people.

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They are.

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We don't. all over, isn't it?

43
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But Tom, with slightly better usage of Jodie Foster, I think, in this case.

44
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Well, are they not having her in it?

45
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Well, I just thought Jodie Foster didn't get enough to do in all these, whereas Wendy Williams gets a hell of a lot.

46
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I don't know, fair enough.

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So they're kind of posh.

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We don't actually really strictly believing them.

49
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And so all we don't. so long ago.

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Yeah, all that's left of the people that Vara was calling or no, we're calling regressive.

51
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Yeah.

52
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And there's some awful lines that are even cut out about the filthy colonials, the filthy.

53
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Yeah, well, colonialism's a bit of a Bob Holmes trope, isn't it?

54
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I mean, the last...

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Oh, have a drink, listen. yes Well, of course, there's some tarans themselves.

56
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Very colonial.

57
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Well, even, even we discover, you know, in ark in space that the we're in attack is the result of colonial, you know, the human colonists, colonise, Andromeda, and destroy, they destroy the breeding grounds and kill the we're in.

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And so that's why they wear and come back. the result of colonialism.

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It's something that is present in a lot of homes is writing.

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And sometimes to its detriment, as we'll discover.

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It's a lovely to have a villain who's entirely vindicated to the point that, well, if I was in their situation, Would I behave any differently?

62
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I don't know.

63
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Would you eat someone's brain?

64
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Probably, probably not.

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We've just had lunch, so, you know.

66
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Not until 3 or 4 o'clock, anyway.

67
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So now in this story, we see the other side of it, don't we?

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We see the colonists, the galsec colonists.

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Does it stand for galactic security?

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I keep looking up.

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I keep looking it up.

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I thought it was a shiny fabric.

73
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Oh, people spell it G-A-L capital SEC.

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Yeah, so it's galactic security or galactic sector, perhaps.

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Okay.

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But they're all from South Africa.

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Yes, they all have these South African accents.

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And of course, the writer of the Space Museum, who was South African Glenn Jones, is one of them.

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I think that's... spectacular.

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He's recently handsome, actually.

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He's a bit older than the others maybe.

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I believe he's Christ, is that right?

83
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Yeah, he's Crans.

84
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He's grand.

85
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But it doesn't show.

86
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Yeah, no, he looks quite well to me.

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It's just hard to imagine that this is the same show as the space museum, right?

88
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Like I adore the Space Museum.

89
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I absolutely love it to death.

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Even the bits that everyone else hates.

91
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This is just, you know, absolutely. light years away.

92
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Yeah, yeah.

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Well, you know, the fact that we're not in the studio, as Brendan mentioned, that we are in this incredible, huge location.

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Do you know where we are, though?

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We're in torture porn land.

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This is actually about cruelty.

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It starts off with an unforgiving, blighted landscape.

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You know, they wanted to actually have Lord Nelson popping up out of one of the crags out of one of the hills, but they just couldn't they just didn't have the money for the mortal. over there, yeah.

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They didn't have the money for the model.

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Yeah.

101
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But yeah, it would have been it's very Planet of the Apes, isn't it, when you see the Statue of Liberty in the final scene.

102
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And that's where it would have come from.

103
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I'm kind of glad they didn't do it We're influenced by another film here, just like we were influenced by robot.

104
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Sorry, just like we were influenced by King Kong backwards robot.

105
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We had the influence of Planet of the Apes slightly here.

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Although here it's not a twist that it's earth.

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We know that it's Earth.

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On the topic of it being kind of torture porn.

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Well, released just the year before was the Texas Chainsaw Massacre, which, of course, kickstarted this whole really 50 year run of quite violent, sadistic, horrific, torture-based films.

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So we see this on Torans doing that in this story.

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And what's amazing is Arkan Space was so atmospheric because of its tight claustrophobic sets.

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Even the vast chamber that all of humanity is stored in.

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It's tall.

114
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It's like a silo, rather than being expansive on the ground.

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So it still feels quite small where it can be shot quite small.

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This story manages to be atmospheric in wide open spaces.

117
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We don't often get a horizon in Doctor Who.

118
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Yeah absolutely. full episodes of nothing, but...

119
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Yeah, no, there's no buildings.

120
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And because there's no buildings, there's no authority to run to, there's no unit, there's no brigadier.

121
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It's yeah, exactly. chaos.

122
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And the threat is even more so because of that.

123
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So this is a sort of Nazism thing, don't you think?

124
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The experiments of the Sonter is running.

125
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Oh yes, I take your point.

126
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Yeah, they're like Nazi.

127
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Yeah, yeah.

128
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He's Joseph Mengler.

129
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And so, you know, he's he's drowned somewhere.

130
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Like he's tested someone's resistance to being immersed in fluids.

131
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I love his conclusion.

132
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I conclude that the human beings have very little resistance to being immersed in fluids. good on him.

133
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They were all space boys, you know, you should have just tested out their resilience to being drunk.

134
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We have really come out on top.

135
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Yeah, and so, you know, burning his burned, he's burned.

136
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R?

137
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He's burned roth.

138
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Roth is my favourite character.

139
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Does he test Zake?

140
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He tests Akes resistance to being pushed off a cliff.

141
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No, he does.

142
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It's Walsh. is an uncredited Terry Walsh.

143
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Terry Walsh is the star.

144
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Oh, no, he is credited.

145
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Oh, is he?

146
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He does actually receive an on-screen credit.

147
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He does think it's a new wig in this.

148
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He does.

149
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He doesn't receive an...

150
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We'll come to that later.

151
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He doesn't receive an onset screen credit for his other major role, which we will get too.

152
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Yeah, I would like to talk a bit more about the galsec team.

153
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As Richard intimated earlier, they are all given South African accents, which was quite topical at the time.

154
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Of course, the Springbok tours, the Springbok tours, for almost 30 years, apartheid had been active in South Africa, but at this point international pressure was very high, but also internal pressure was very high.

155
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The student and trade unions were both protesting and picketing in South Africa for the abolition of apartheid.

156
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So I think it's very interesting that either the writers, Bob Baker and Dave Martin, impossibly their most focussed script to date, because it's so short, so tight, or possibly the director Rodney Bennett, who's very good.

157
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One of those 3 or any combination must have decided we're going to make these colonists South African.

158
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How many theatres are actually South African?

159
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None of them.

160
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Well, except Glen Jones.

161
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No, apparently they all put it on rehearsals and that's good enough for the BBC.

162
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Yeah, and Glyn Jones sort of coach them on the accent.

163
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Yeah, yeah, I think they're fine.

164
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Better than my terrible cod South Africa.

165
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Yeah, African.

166
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You can draw one of 2 conclusions from it.

167
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You can say either that the criticism of the apartheid regime at the time has had the effect of at this point in the future.

168
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Obviously, we're very far in the future.

169
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South Africa has obviously done well in order to form members of a space service entirely together, but at the same time, like up on the ark, everyone's white.

170
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Well, my theory is that it's the South African version of Starship UK from Beast Below, because what's also happening at this time is of the solar flares is a lot of posh white people get into the arc.

171
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And then a whole bunch of other English people get into Starship UK in order to evade...

172
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And of course, they haven't had its own share. where they would.

173
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And South Africa, presumably, is where Galsek gets its people from.

174
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I think it's just you want them to be colonials.

175
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You want them to be from the Dominion.

176
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So the people from Earth speak with English accents and the people from Earth colonies speak with accents that come from former British colonies.

177
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Surely that's the reason.

178
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And they've also developed, and I mean, it's limited in the story, of course, because you can't have too much of it, but they have their own lexicon.

179
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They were playing a lot with it.

180
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They tried it in Arc in Space and both homes was very interested in the progression, the consonantal shift.

181
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Isn't that a terrible expression?

182
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of language growth.

183
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There's a few lines.

184
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And if you watch the Arkin Space commentaries, you can see.

185
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They have a very different vocabulary, don't they?

186
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Yeah, they play around with all of that.

187
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Yeah, whereas the language changes for the Galsek colonists, it's very much based on portmanteaus, running words together.

188
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So you understand, it becomes younger.

189
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Yeah, you understand.

190
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I thought that was just Roth.

191
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Oh no, they all say it.

192
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They also, like when they're interrogating the doctor, when Burl is interrogating the doctor, he says, you understand?

193
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The other one that really sticks in my mind is, and this relates to their, obviously, technological society being from space colonies and travelling back to Earth.

194
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Whenever they say yes, very often they don't say yes, they say check.

195
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As you would do with a technical check.

196
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Yeah, so when they're trying to pick holes in the doctor's story, saying, you said you came by transporter.

197
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Check, check.

198
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Well, the transporter doesn't work.

199
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Check, check.

200
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So therefore you're wrong.

201
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Check, check.

202
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I can really see that that's Robert Holmes' influence because Linguistics hasn't been much of a focus for the show before, but we will see it going through the next 3 years.

203
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Very much so when we get our next doctor's companion.

204
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Yes, indeed.

205
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That's a spoiler alert, I believe, to use your expression.

206
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I really love how bleak this is.

207
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It's from the windscript, windscript landscape too, how they look.

208
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They look so dirty, they just look like they've been weeks.

209
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They've all got beards.

210
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They look like they've been at a dance party all weekend.

211
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They're cast apart from you.

212
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Yes, quite.

213
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Yeah, no, I think that's right.

214
00:12:16.259 --> 00:12:21.480
And also that horrible little robot with its little... don't like the robot?

215
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No, no, no, the robot.

216
00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:24.840
No, that's not what I said.

217
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Oh, okay.

218
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Oh, horrible.

219
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As in, it's an answer.

220
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Actually, as a child, I'm even watching it again now.

221
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I just am freaked out by it.

222
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The fact that it is quite flimsy, but it can actually rope them all up.

223
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And insectoid and non-anthropomorphic.

224
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Just in case you missed it.

225
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That's lovely. 70s decals on it.

226
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It does have gorgeous.

227
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Big blank set, thorax again.

228
00:12:47.399 --> 00:12:48.720
It a bit blank seven, isn't it, actually?

229
00:12:48.779 --> 00:12:50.220
Yeah, no, it's terrible.

230
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Well, I really like it.

231
00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:53.340
It is really good.

232
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I love the supporting cast.

233
00:12:54.779 --> 00:13:13.440
And also, just before we go back to the supporting cast, The shape of that robot's head, that odd sort of double trapezoid shape, there is a library in South London that looks exactly like it, complete with the windows, complete with the windows to emulate the eyes of the insectoid robot.

234
00:13:13.500 --> 00:13:16.139
I believe I have a photo somewhere on my computer.

235
00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:17.639
I will try and find it for the show notes.

236
00:13:17.700 --> 00:13:19.080
Was this built after?

237
00:13:19.139 --> 00:13:20.039
Oh, yes, long after.

238
00:13:20.100 --> 00:13:21.960
I have put...

239
00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:24.840
I just thought Bob Baker and Dave Martin might have actually got inspiration.

240
00:13:24.899 --> 00:13:27.179
No, no, it's probably the other way around.

241
00:13:27.240 --> 00:13:28.320
Architects do this.

242
00:13:28.379 --> 00:13:31.259
I can't, and I, you know, and luckily no client's listening to this.

243
00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:36.779
I have put homages to the roundels, the Tartar circular walls on most jobs.

244
00:13:37.019 --> 00:13:39.539
I've got away with it a couple of times.

245
00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:41.340
They're your fjords.

246
00:13:41.399 --> 00:13:42.179
They are.

247
00:13:42.840 --> 00:13:45.480
And I've got the bean to prove it.

248
00:13:46.620 --> 00:13:49.259
I was just freaked out by this as a kid.

249
00:13:49.320 --> 00:13:54.000
I think and I think it's the torture of Sarah. really, really does me in.

250
00:13:54.059 --> 00:13:56.279
What happens to torture for the listeners?

251
00:13:56.340 --> 00:14:00.299
So with Sarah, she gets scared by cliffs.

252
00:14:01.139 --> 00:14:03.419
Snakes, fake, snakes.

253
00:14:03.419 --> 00:14:05.100
Yeah, inflatable snake.

254
00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:06.840
And creeping mud.

255
00:14:06.899 --> 00:14:08.340
Yeah, that's horrifying.

256
00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:09.480
And then Tom...

257
00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:10.200
It's porridge, though.

258
00:14:10.259 --> 00:14:12.960
Tom rips her thing off and she goes unconscious.

259
00:14:13.019 --> 00:14:15.059
It's really, but it's really brutal.

260
00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:23.519
Like he's someone's dying of first, you know, later on he's gonna get them to not crush Voral's thorax.

261
00:14:23.580 --> 00:14:24.779
Do you know what I mean?

262
00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:25.679
Like, it is awful.

263
00:14:25.740 --> 00:14:30.240
And the scene with Sarah is really, really frightening and she plays frightened so well.

264
00:14:30.299 --> 00:14:31.559
She does it so well.

265
00:14:31.620 --> 00:14:32.580
She actually hypens it.

266
00:14:32.940 --> 00:14:37.500
It's that old thing of if you're going to bring a monster back, you have to up the threat.

267
00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:42.179
So before, we just have one son, Tyron, here, we only have once on time.

268
00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:45.840
We see his boss, the field major, field marshal.

269
00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:50.039
He's identical other than the busty substances on his collar.

270
00:14:50.100 --> 00:14:51.000
Yeah, he does.

271
00:14:51.059 --> 00:14:53.039
He's got enormous chalk bit breastplates.

272
00:14:53.159 --> 00:14:55.259
Well, I think he's like the...

273
00:14:55.259 --> 00:15:02.519
He's like the whatever it is, the Grand Admiral, whatever, from Seeds of Death, who is the same sequence.

274
00:15:02.580 --> 00:15:04.679
Even it should be Cyril Shepp, shouldn't he?

275
00:15:04.740 --> 00:15:05.940
His other arch man, right?

276
00:15:05.940 --> 00:15:06.480
In space.

277
00:15:06.539 --> 00:15:12.240
You know, I do wonder if that's how sort of marshals in generals are ranked in the Santara and armed forces.

278
00:15:12.299 --> 00:15:15.000
You know, on Earth, we have stars for generals.

279
00:15:15.059 --> 00:15:18.000
Maybe they have like a 2 breasted general.

280
00:15:18.059 --> 00:15:18.720
I don't know.

281
00:15:18.779 --> 00:15:23.879
I love the way in which Sarah, you know, thinks that he's absolutely identical.

282
00:15:23.940 --> 00:15:24.899
Oh, he is.

283
00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:26.580
He's got the same number of fingers and everything.

284
00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:27.779
Exactly.

285
00:15:27.840 --> 00:15:29.220
Hang on, though.

286
00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:31.080
This has been many, many 1000s of years.

287
00:15:31.139 --> 00:15:32.820
There's nothing to say that the...

288
00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:33.840
No, but she thinks.

289
00:15:33.899 --> 00:15:35.039
She thinks it's less.

290
00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:37.740
Look, maybe she's like Katie and doesn't wear glasses on.

291
00:15:37.860 --> 00:15:39.059
Yeah, there you go.

292
00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:39.600
There you go.

293
00:15:39.659 --> 00:15:46.440
So it was that thing where Kevin Lindsay found the fibreglass mask to much. too hard to wear.

294
00:15:46.500 --> 00:15:47.039
Yeah, yeah.

295
00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:47.940
And so it's replaced...

296
00:15:47.940 --> 00:15:53.759
There were lots of pauses during the shoot where they just they had to bring him his lunch in a little paper bag when everyone was...

297
00:15:53.820 --> 00:15:54.299
He couldn't.

298
00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:57.120
With the combination of the mask, the suit, and his heart trouble.

299
00:15:57.240 --> 00:15:59.940
And I heard sadly a year later would claim his life.

300
00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:04.259
They just had to put his sandwiches in a blender and feed it in through his probic vent, apparently.

301
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:08.220
The most expensive thing in this entire production.

302
00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:11.220
The thing that costs more than anything else, including the location shoot.

303
00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:14.340
I'm going to go the suit.

304
00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:15.539
What?

305
00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:17.100
The suit is made of Myla.

306
00:16:17.159 --> 00:16:21.419
Milar is the stuff that was developed as a skin for satellites.

307
00:16:21.480 --> 00:16:23.460
It's silver, plastic.

308
00:16:23.580 --> 00:16:25.379
It's terribly, terribly thin and fragile.

309
00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:27.960
Why did they use it to make Kevin Lindsay suit?

310
00:16:28.019 --> 00:16:36.840
It meant that Terry Walsh had to be terribly delicate and careful with Stuart Phil, who was dressed up as Kevin Lindsay for the fight scenes because the stuff tears.

311
00:16:36.899 --> 00:16:39.600
It does look pretty impressive, but it costs a bomb.

312
00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:40.080
Yeah.

313
00:16:40.259 --> 00:16:48.240
See, I actually think again, you know, I've said about the tone of season 12 before, and I'm going to go on and on and on about it.

314
00:16:48.299 --> 00:17:02.340
The last time we saw this on Tarans, it was all wacky capers and high japes, and they were dressing up as fryers, and, you know, throwing stink bombs into castles and stuff, and it was all jolly and really fun.

315
00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:06.299
But now we're just doing Nazi torture doctors.

316
00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:07.319
Do you know what I mean?

317
00:17:07.380 --> 00:17:15.000
And I just kind of like I like this story, I guess, although I'll deny it if you if you press me.

318
00:17:15.059 --> 00:17:18.059
The drink list. good thing those comments aren't being recorded.

319
00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:19.200
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

320
00:17:19.259 --> 00:17:20.339
No, I never said anything.

321
00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:28.440
But I do worry about the tone, and it is another thing where I sort of think, why the hell would Sarah ever get back in the TARDIS again after this stuff happens.

322
00:17:28.500 --> 00:17:33.240
But don't we feel that this is just a reflection of the current times in the red so-called real world?

323
00:17:33.299 --> 00:17:35.579
You know what Britain was going through right now?

324
00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:38.519
A fuel crisis to the point that, you know, they had the 3 day week.

325
00:17:38.579 --> 00:17:43.740
People were having power cuts, which would have gone for several hours during each day.

326
00:17:43.740 --> 00:17:47.759
And the government had sanctioned and it was much publicised.

327
00:17:47.880 --> 00:18:01.259
They were testing students who were getting paid to do the results at the time, of going pretty much the same kinds of things, of subjecting them to cold, subjecting them to living without electricity, and all these other things.

328
00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:08.279
It was there was talk in the press of old people dying because freezing at home because of power cuts.

329
00:18:08.339 --> 00:18:11.400
So Britain was going through the same level of ardour.

330
00:18:11.880 --> 00:18:14.579
Britain should say after the war.

331
00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:15.359
Do you know what I mean?

332
00:18:15.420 --> 00:18:26.880
If Doctor Who's going to be sort of all about Nazi torturers, you know, whenever Britain's having a bad time politically, I mean, the last 12 years of Doctor Who would have been pretty rough, I think.

333
00:18:26.940 --> 00:18:29.700
See, it's not about the torture, though.

334
00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:33.960
This is where I have to disagree with you because Texas Chainsaw Mascot is about the torture.

335
00:18:34.019 --> 00:18:37.380
And the reason you know that is that Leatherface is still alive at the end.

336
00:18:37.859 --> 00:18:42.420
This is about the spirit of human endurance and the spirit of human compassion.

337
00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:48.359
Because at the end, when he's doing the double test of human strength versus the strength of the ribcage.

338
00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:50.220
Yeah, compressibility of...

339
00:18:50.220 --> 00:18:56.880
You know, he Styre sums up the theme of the story, which is he is a traitor to your kind.

340
00:18:56.940 --> 00:18:58.380
Why do you still fight to save him?

341
00:18:58.859 --> 00:19:02.759
And it's because he is still of their kind.

342
00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:08.759
And he has been working, you know, to try to buy them type.

343
00:19:08.819 --> 00:19:09.839
Yes, he's a collaborator.

344
00:19:09.900 --> 00:19:13.380
I just thought they didn't want bits of lung all over their space clothing.

345
00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:14.220
Do you know what I mean?

346
00:19:14.339 --> 00:19:18.119
Like if they dropped the thing, it would be messy and kind of unpleasant to look at.

347
00:19:18.180 --> 00:19:20.220
But well, this is the point.

348
00:19:20.279 --> 00:19:27.059
They are so against torture that they will fight to save someone they hate as well as fighting to save themselves.

349
00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:38.940
Harry's 1st response when he finds that poor guy whose character doesn't even get a name dangling from the cliff face, dehydration, is to hydrate him.

350
00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:40.140
And of course, you know, he's a doctor.

351
00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:41.099
He heals the sick.

352
00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:47.160
But he doesn't attempt to find out what's going on and why he is there. 1st response is to treat him.

353
00:19:47.220 --> 00:19:56.160
When Sarah 1st encounters Roth, who I agree with you, Richard, of the human, guess characters, is the strongest one and the one we like the most.

354
00:19:56.220 --> 00:19:57.420
And when he's killed.

355
00:19:57.480 --> 00:19:58.680
It's very affecting.

356
00:19:58.740 --> 00:20:05.339
But again, because of Sarah's reaction, but it's the 1st reaction to him is she sees the burns on his arms.

357
00:20:05.400 --> 00:20:07.259
And you know what?

358
00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:14.099
Sarah, a year ago, probably would have run away from that situation, the same way that she's nervous around Alpha Centuria, nervous around Bilal.

359
00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:21.720
Compare that to how she reacts to the K1 robot a few stories ago where she immediately treats him like a sentient being when no one else will.

360
00:20:21.779 --> 00:20:24.779
This story is a bit smoochy, if you want to be honest.

361
00:20:24.839 --> 00:20:33.480
Yeah, this story, it does contain torture and it is, it is harrowing and it is disturbing to see these images, but it is about that spirit of resilience.

362
00:20:33.539 --> 00:20:36.359
And perhaps there are better ways to explore that spirit of resilience.

363
00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:44.579
But I think maybe that's why Sarah sticks around because even though she's put through these horrible situations, she can help others.

364
00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:52.740
But you see, I think that you're overselling the spirit of resilience thing, to be honest, because in 50 minutes of like this 2 episode story.

365
00:20:52.799 --> 00:21:00.119
We had like basically one piece of evidence that that's the theme. you know what I mean?

366
00:21:00.180 --> 00:21:01.680
Harry would do that anyway.

367
00:21:01.740 --> 00:21:03.420
Our heroes are all good guys.

368
00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:06.599
So, you know, we expect them to behave morally.

369
00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:12.420
So you've got this one thing where the guys don't want to drop the big gravity bar on rural's chest.

370
00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:19.019
I don't know that's enough to say that this is a great triumph of human, blah, blah, blah, over torturing guys.

371
00:21:19.079 --> 00:21:22.680
Well, they don't kill the doctor the 1st 2nd they find him.

372
00:21:22.740 --> 00:21:25.859
They try and find out information from them to find their missing crewmen.

373
00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:27.779
They keep wanting to kill him, though, don't they?

374
00:21:27.900 --> 00:21:29.880
They keep they keep threatening to, but they don't.

375
00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:34.440
And then when they do see their missing crewmate, they forget all about the doctor.

376
00:21:34.500 --> 00:21:40.259
It becomes all about finding Roth and trying to save him and finding out what is going on.

377
00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:44.400
They're only so angry with the doctor because they think they've killed their friends, Ake.

378
00:21:44.460 --> 00:21:45.420
Terry.

379
00:21:45.420 --> 00:21:46.200
Terry.

380
00:21:46.259 --> 00:21:46.500
Yeah.

381
00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:46.920
Yeah.

382
00:21:46.980 --> 00:21:48.299
They think the doctors killed Terry.

383
00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:50.460
No, I think they're quite a tight knit bunch.

384
00:21:50.519 --> 00:21:54.180
And in a way, they're more human than the people up on Nerva.

385
00:21:54.299 --> 00:21:57.000
Because of that camaraderie.

386
00:21:58.140 --> 00:22:03.900
We're presented to very different facets of humanity in 2 stories, and I believe it is deliberate.

387
00:22:04.019 --> 00:22:05.099
What do you think?

388
00:22:05.160 --> 00:22:10.680
Well, I think I've just learned something, dear listener, that I've even thought of before in my entire life.

389
00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:14.880
I just want to be entertained for week to week and go along with the ride.

390
00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:17.339
Is this entertaining?

391
00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:18.119
Do you think, Todd?

392
00:22:21.180 --> 00:22:27.359
It's disturbing and and as a kid, I really found this really hard to sit through.

393
00:22:27.420 --> 00:22:31.799
Even now of all the stories in the season, I find it the hardest to sit through because of what's going on there.

394
00:22:31.859 --> 00:22:35.160
I also think it is a bit disposable. you know what I mean?

395
00:22:35.220 --> 00:22:39.839
Given that all of the guest characters are roughly interchangeable.

396
00:22:39.900 --> 00:22:40.500
Do you know what I mean?

397
00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:44.160
It's just a bunch of white guys with beards, wearing the same clothes as each other.

398
00:22:44.220 --> 00:22:54.900
I guess so, and also too, it comes out of the factory that there was a six-part story, which has now been split up into 4 parts and 2 parts. something that Bob Holmes is going to continually do with 6 part stories from here on here.

399
00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:55.619
Next story.

400
00:22:55.680 --> 00:22:55.920
Yeah.

401
00:22:56.039 --> 00:22:58.200
They do have a line in there.

402
00:22:58.259 --> 00:23:00.059
They say Nerva has never been found.

403
00:23:00.660 --> 00:23:02.099
Hello?

404
00:23:02.099 --> 00:23:03.359
And it's not that far.

405
00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:04.500
It always jarred with me.

406
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:07.680
Like, it's a big frigging space thing.

407
00:23:08.220 --> 00:23:16.980
And you've got here onto this planet somehow, surely, unless it was on the dark side of the planet when you orbit it.

408
00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:19.200
Yeah, it's very, it is a very strange line.

409
00:23:19.259 --> 00:23:21.059
It's not in orbit of Earth, is it?

410
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:21.420
It is.

411
00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:22.440
As you see, it is.

412
00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:24.359
Yeah, clearly, yeah.

413
00:23:24.420 --> 00:23:25.680
They must move it around.

414
00:23:25.740 --> 00:23:27.660
It'll be, you know, Jupiter soon.

415
00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:29.640
That's crazy.

416
00:23:29.700 --> 00:23:30.720
Imagine moving it that far.

417
00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:36.839
But I guess a big thing in this episode, well, this story is the fact that, you know, Tom broke his collarbone.

418
00:23:36.900 --> 00:23:42.599
So he's largely played by Terry Walsh in episode two. like more than ever before.

419
00:23:42.660 --> 00:23:44.339
So, yeah, poor Tom.

420
00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:48.960
He films one story at the same time as John is filming his last story.

421
00:23:49.019 --> 00:23:52.440
So he gets a nice long holiday in between, turns up on location.

422
00:23:52.500 --> 00:23:53.759
I think 2 or 3 days on.

423
00:23:53.880 --> 00:24:02.759
He tries to clamber over a rock because he's like, I'm 40 and I blame his man of action and I'm Doctor Who went, oh, I've just done something bad.

424
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:04.559
Poor bugger.

425
00:24:04.619 --> 00:24:07.740
I actually think the wig and all that is okay.

426
00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:09.599
It's the way Terry Walsh actually moves.

427
00:24:09.660 --> 00:24:11.759
He doesn't have the same body movements.

428
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:14.099
And so it just doesn't sell it in long shot.

429
00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:17.640
I don't know how I never spotted it before because watching it this time.

430
00:24:17.700 --> 00:24:19.500
And I'm kind of primed for Terry.

431
00:24:19.559 --> 00:24:22.440
Like my Terry Antennae are pretty good by this stage.

432
00:24:23.339 --> 00:24:27.660
And just every 2nd shot is Terry Walsh.

433
00:24:27.720 --> 00:24:28.259
It's amazing.

434
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:29.940
I mean, as a kid, I never saw that.

435
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:31.019
No, no, me neither, yeah.

436
00:24:31.079 --> 00:24:34.200
I think it really helps, just like it did in Planet of the Spiders.

437
00:24:34.259 --> 00:24:35.279
The wig is so good.

438
00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:40.140
It's such a close match for Tom that it is really, really good.

439
00:24:40.200 --> 00:24:45.660
And there is the obligatory moment where if Terry Walsh is playing a stunt double.

440
00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:50.460
You've got to have this obligatory moment where you see his face, which is the last time he tackles Styer.

441
00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:56.339
Do have a look towards the end of episode 2 and they overdub it with a line of dialogue from Tom to try and sell it.

442
00:24:56.400 --> 00:25:03.240
And sort of Terry is holding his hands up in kind of in front of his face because he's about to grab Styer from behind.

443
00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:07.740
As his arms sort of come down, you see that it's Terry Walsh sort of grunting with exertion.

444
00:25:07.859 --> 00:25:09.180
Awesome.

445
00:25:09.240 --> 00:25:11.039
So do keep an eye out for that.

446
00:25:11.099 --> 00:25:26.700
But I do think, though, in this whole situation, the person really worthy of praise is Tom, who is sitting there with a broken collarbone and neck brace under his giant overcoat, and it's just lucky that he happened to be wearing that for this story, and just getting on with his lines.

447
00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:30.960
The only difference is he's so still, whereas he's been so active earlier on, but that's okay.

448
00:25:31.019 --> 00:25:33.900
The 4th doctor stares off into the middle distance for his dialogue all the time.

449
00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:45.720
I think, good on you, Tom, for just getting on with it, in what, in a modern production would set everything back by a few weeks, or they just put trigger from only fools and horses in a wheelchair.

450
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:46.619
You know what happened?

451
00:25:46.619 --> 00:25:47.819
You know what happened to Todd though?

452
00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:48.960
You know what?

453
00:25:49.380 --> 00:25:50.759
That's not for this podcast.

454
00:25:51.299 --> 00:25:53.400
You know what happened?

455
00:25:53.460 --> 00:25:54.420
have to cut that out as well.

456
00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:56.700
You know what happened to Tom when he broke his collarbone?

457
00:25:56.759 --> 00:25:59.579
It was Roger Murray Leach, who drove him.

458
00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:03.480
It's the most isolated bit of England you can get to.

459
00:26:03.539 --> 00:26:10.140
It's 80 miles drive to town and Tom was slashed up, so to speak, in the scarf.

460
00:26:10.200 --> 00:26:19.200
They used the scarf as a tourniquet, and bound him up, and all the way back, Roger Murray Leach was saying, Tom was utterly whitefaced terrified that they would cut him.

461
00:26:19.259 --> 00:26:20.160
It hadn't gone out yet.

462
00:26:20.220 --> 00:26:21.720
Tom hadn't been saying, that's it.

463
00:26:21.779 --> 00:26:22.559
They just going to replace me.

464
00:26:22.619 --> 00:26:25.079
So he's really, this is the anti-Tom.

465
00:26:25.140 --> 00:26:28.799
He's really well behaved on set and chining at everybody.

466
00:26:28.859 --> 00:26:32.880
Once he's sure of himself, though, nothing can stop him short of a blow to the probic fan.

467
00:26:32.940 --> 00:26:35.579
You can see the lovely Thorax, though, it is.

468
00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:37.980
You can see the ontological thread.

469
00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:38.759
Have another drink.

470
00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:41.700
That Tom is to become in this, though, can't you?

471
00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:43.500
Just as in, you can in arc in space.

472
00:26:43.559 --> 00:26:47.880
And yes, in robot, he's he's so powerful.

473
00:26:47.940 --> 00:26:49.319
He's so jolly.

474
00:26:49.380 --> 00:26:51.000
He's just such an enormous man.

475
00:26:51.059 --> 00:26:55.200
He's an enormous mind, enormous humour, huge personality, that ego.

476
00:26:55.259 --> 00:27:01.259
You can see the monster that is about to come in the Williams era, but this is why I really like him in this.

477
00:27:01.319 --> 00:27:05.759
He's still got the lid on him and Hinchcliffe, he has so much respect for Hinchcliffe and gratitude.

478
00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:16.079
Both ways, but also Hinchcliffe has a mighty powerful, quiet presence and he's exactly the Tupperware lid needed to keep Tom down.

479
00:27:16.140 --> 00:27:17.759
And Ian and Liz.

480
00:27:17.819 --> 00:27:19.319
He not going to misbehave with those two.

481
00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:22.380
I just can't believe that I never spotted it as a kid.

482
00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:25.319
The injury and how still he is in that 2nd episode.

483
00:27:25.380 --> 00:27:26.880
You can see it now that we're looking for it.

484
00:27:26.940 --> 00:27:35.099
I'm also wondering, like, you know, Ian Marta throws himself down that ravine or whatever it is with some force.

485
00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:36.720
I mean, I'm surprised he didn't injure himself.

486
00:27:36.779 --> 00:27:38.940
With that particular form.

487
00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:40.680
Yeah, I mean, it does look like him, doesn't it?

488
00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:42.240
It does, isn't it?

489
00:27:42.299 --> 00:27:43.140
I don't know.

490
00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:47.400
And I've tried to look it up and all the usual sources, doesn't it?

491
00:27:47.400 --> 00:27:51.359
I have to go back to the ark in space with those bottoms that follow you around the room.

492
00:27:51.420 --> 00:27:55.079
That's how you know it's real art listener, the bottoms follow. when they're under the desk.

493
00:27:55.140 --> 00:27:57.839
Can I say Ian Levine or did I say Ian Martin?

494
00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:00.660
I can't remember.

495
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:01.740
Is it the same bosom?

496
00:28:01.799 --> 00:28:04.079
that goes down the ravine?

497
00:28:04.140 --> 00:28:06.119
Oh, we are getting behind our films now.

498
00:28:06.180 --> 00:28:09.059
I love the fact that Harry has to go and save the day.

499
00:28:09.180 --> 00:28:12.299
He knows exactly how to use the Sonic screwdriver, have he never seen it before?

500
00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:12.779
No, no, no.

501
00:28:12.839 --> 00:28:15.299
It's quite wonderful because the doctor gives him some instruction.

502
00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:21.480
And when he's holding out the Sonic Screwdriver, he holds it out as far as he can and then turns his face away, winces.

503
00:28:21.539 --> 00:28:26.039
You know, it's like very nervously opening a bottle of very fizzy champagne.

504
00:28:26.099 --> 00:28:28.079
Oh, God, Anne Marta's wonderful.

505
00:28:28.140 --> 00:28:32.279
I love the moment when Styre just flames.

506
00:28:32.339 --> 00:28:34.980
I remember that as a kid. great, isn't it?

507
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:47.339
And then, of course, we've still got the massive invasion fleet that we've just talked about and we've very cheaply realised by just having Kevin Lindsay on a sort of 60s space television in the rocks.

508
00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:56.400
And then a wibbly, wobbly, timey, wimey way, they suddenly become Vogons from the hitchhiker's got to the galaxy because they can't invade the planet without...

509
00:28:57.119 --> 00:29:01.859
It's a very, it's, it's a good ending, but it's a very strange ending.

510
00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:03.119
No, it's not a good ending.

511
00:29:03.180 --> 00:29:07.619
And he goes, next time, I will destroy you and that's it.

512
00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:11.279
And he even sort of switches the thing off and that's that whole invasion gone.

513
00:29:11.339 --> 00:29:12.900
It's your Waterloo marshal.

514
00:29:13.019 --> 00:29:19.920
Oh, when you get a comic ending with the transmants popping in and out, just like we had at the beginning of the story.

515
00:29:19.980 --> 00:29:21.059
Such humour.

516
00:29:21.960 --> 00:29:25.019
Thanks, Bob, Baker and Dave Martin.

517
00:29:25.079 --> 00:29:27.960
Except you don't end up with Slade an A over T, do you?

518
00:29:28.019 --> 00:29:34.980
When this was 1st released, it came out as a double pack with Genesis of the Talent.

519
00:29:34.980 --> 00:29:36.180
Yeah, on VHS.

520
00:29:36.180 --> 00:29:39.539
Did it also come out that way on DVD?

521
00:29:39.599 --> 00:29:41.039
No, DD, it came out individually.

522
00:29:41.099 --> 00:29:43.319
It was the 1st 2 part story to be released on DVD.

523
00:29:43.380 --> 00:29:45.900
And it was cheaper price with that, wasn't it?

524
00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:59.519
Yeah, it was, it was this interesting thing of, they 1st announced that it was going to be a cheaper price with fewer special features, but then when they released it, they also paired it up with the other existing Santaran stories and put them in a box set, which meant there was a budget for a documentary.

525
00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:13.920
And the whole thinking it to entertain at the time was that, oh, if we have a budget range of titles, we can put more money into the special features on the full price range of titles.

526
00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:24.420
And they discovered that the price they charged the DD had no bearing on the pre-sales, they were expecting more pre-sales for the cheaper ones and less pre-sales otherwise.

527
00:30:24.480 --> 00:30:26.519
So they just put everything back up to the same price.

528
00:30:27.539 --> 00:30:29.220
Thanks, babe.

529
00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:34.140
Is it okay to say that this podcast is actually as long as watching the sundown experiment.

530
00:30:34.200 --> 00:30:35.759
You might as well just turn the sound down.

531
00:30:35.819 --> 00:30:37.019
We couldn't keep you. right.

532
00:30:52.140 --> 00:30:59.279
Well, if we go on any longer, dear listener, I'm afraid that one of us will break a collarbone, so that's all the time we have for this episode.

533
00:30:59.339 --> 00:31:07.319
We will be back next week. talking about one of the amazing classics of Doctor Who, or is it?

534
00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:09.359
Genesis of the Daleks.

535
00:31:09.480 --> 00:31:10.319
It's terrible.

536
00:31:11.700 --> 00:31:19.200
You can find us online at flightthroughentirety.com, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes, which has a revolutionary review system.

537
00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:22.380
And FTE podcast on Twitter.

538
00:31:22.440 --> 00:31:25.140
Until then, thank you very much for listening and good night.

539
00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:25.799
Good night.

540
00:31:25.859 --> 00:31:26.339
See you soon.

541
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:27.720
Happy Terry Walshing.

542
00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:32.279
That was Flight Through Entirety.

543
00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:35.640
It's Todd Building, Nathan Buttonley, Bradman Jones, and Richard Stone.

544
00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:41.400
This episode, Chalk Bit Breastplates, was recorded on Sunday, June 14th.

545
00:31:41.460 --> 00:31:43.859
The next episode will be released on 12th of July.

546
00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:48.720
If that was just on Taran's Waterloo, I can't wait to hear their Mamma Mia.

547
00:31:54.779 --> 00:31:59.400
Okay, I'm just gonna check something because I do... where we stand.

548
00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:02.940
And George Powell was there.

549
00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:05.940
In silver underwear.

550
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:10.980
Claude Reigns was the invisible man.

551
00:32:11.039 --> 00:32:12.599
I haven't seen that since I was 18.

552
00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:13.380
Really?

553
00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:14.460
It's incoherent.

554
00:32:14.579 --> 00:32:16.140
No, my friend Alexandra.

555
00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:19.799
Her Aunt Rose was the original Janet in the Australian production.

556
00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:22.019
Just some great stories.

557
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:23.519
I don't know if she's still alive actually.

558
00:32:23.579 --> 00:32:25.200
Rose was too fabulous.

559
00:32:25.259 --> 00:32:26.160
Hello, darling.

560
00:32:31.019 --> 00:32:32.880
And clinch.

561
00:32:40.259 --> 00:32:42.240
Oh, no.

562
00:32:42.660 --> 00:32:44.039
No.

563
00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:45.059
Welcome.

564
00:32:45.059 --> 00:32:46.259
Quite through it.

565
00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:47.339
That's the cutaway line.

566
00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:48.660
That's great.

567
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:49.259
You should do that.

568
00:32:49.380 --> 00:32:50.339
Please do that.

569
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:52.740
Hello and welcome to Flightthrough Entirety.

570
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:54.480
G'day, Coba.

571
00:32:54.539 --> 00:32:56.039
We're all doing regional today.

572
00:32:56.099 --> 00:32:57.359
Hey, we're all doing Kalani.