WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 14:41:50 1 00:00:28.620 --> 00:00:33.659 Hello, and welcome back to the not quite new anymore, but still 2 00:00:33.659 --> 00:00:37.200 weekly flight through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast to 3 00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:40.020 discover the glitter gun before adequate hair care. 4 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:40.799 I'm Brendan. 5 00:00:40.859 --> 00:00:41.820 I'm Nathan. 6 00:00:41.880 --> 00:00:43.799 I'm a nose cone full of glitter dust. 7 00:00:43.859 --> 00:00:46.320 And can anyone hear me? 8 00:00:46.979 --> 00:00:49.320 You're Michael Wisher. 9 00:00:50.280 --> 00:00:56.759 Oh, we're back on Space Station Nerva, now Nerva Beacon, and also 10 00:00:56.759 --> 00:00:59.880 coming back after a six-year absence from the show are the 11 00:00:59.880 --> 00:01:00.659 Cybermen. 12 00:01:00.719 --> 00:01:02.399 Awesome revenge. 13 00:01:16.019 --> 00:01:18.659 I have no idea what that voice was. 14 00:01:18.719 --> 00:01:19.379 Who's doing this one? 15 00:01:20.099 --> 00:01:21.959 This is my one. 16 00:01:22.019 --> 00:01:24.719 Like spoiler alert, I think this is the weakest story of the 17 00:01:24.719 --> 00:01:27.719 season, and that's a season that contains robot. 18 00:01:27.780 --> 00:01:33.840 So, um, but it's not all bad, and I do think it has some things 19 00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:36.900 carry blind. 20 00:01:36.959 --> 00:01:37.620 Yes, exactly. 21 00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:41.280 So Carrie Blighton for a start. the music is absolutely superb. 22 00:01:41.340 --> 00:01:44.579 Yes, the last music ever from Kerry Blyton and the 1st Doctor Who 23 00:01:44.579 --> 00:01:50.760 music from Peter Howell. who augments his score later on because I 24 00:01:50.760 --> 00:01:53.760 don't know how, but someone listened to Kerry Blyton score and 25 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:56.459 thought, isn't this a bit similar to that thing with the Daleks in 26 00:01:56.459 --> 00:01:57.239 the quarry last year? 27 00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:00.359 in the closing one or 2 episodes of this? 28 00:02:00.420 --> 00:02:02.939 You hear some electronic augmentation? 29 00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:04.379 And that was done by Peter Howell. 30 00:02:04.439 --> 00:02:06.359 Who does the music to Zigons thing? 31 00:02:06.420 --> 00:02:08.159 Jeffrey Bergen. 32 00:02:08.219 --> 00:02:08.460 Okay. 33 00:02:08.520 --> 00:02:09.840 He's my all-time favourite. 34 00:02:09.900 --> 00:02:11.099 He's really good. 35 00:02:11.159 --> 00:02:12.659 Willie lady did bride said revisit. 36 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:14.280 But he also did seats of dirt. 37 00:02:14.340 --> 00:02:17.159 Yes, because Douglas Canfield still hated Dudley. 38 00:02:17.580 --> 00:02:18.479 But we're getting ahead of himself. 39 00:02:18.539 --> 00:02:19.139 Yeah, sorry. 40 00:02:19.199 --> 00:02:21.300 So the horror season 12 continues. 41 00:02:21.360 --> 00:02:24.780 I said before that one of the things that struck me this time 42 00:02:24.780 --> 00:02:29.099 rounds through season 12 is not only that it's really great, but 43 00:02:29.099 --> 00:02:30.599 that it's really, really horrible. 44 00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:34.919 And why is Sarah going to get in the TARDIS again, ever, ever. 45 00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:37.379 So that starts straight away, doesn't it? 46 00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:40.319 We arrive on, is it Nova Beacon or Space Station Nova? 47 00:02:40.379 --> 00:02:41.520 It's now Nova Beacon. 48 00:02:41.580 --> 00:02:44.819 And Sarah was prescient in the last story when she said, but this 49 00:02:44.819 --> 00:02:45.659 isn't the beacon. 50 00:02:45.719 --> 00:02:47.759 Oh, okay, but it wasn't the beacon. 51 00:02:47.879 --> 00:02:51.060 Because, of course, they'd recorded this story before Genesis of 52 00:02:51.060 --> 00:02:51.659 the Daleks. 53 00:02:51.719 --> 00:02:55.560 So the recording order for this season went robot, the Sontaran 54 00:02:55.560 --> 00:02:59.340 experiment, Arc in Space, Revenge of the Cyberman, Genesis of the 55 00:02:59.340 --> 00:03:01.680 Daleks, Terror of the Zygons. 56 00:03:01.740 --> 00:03:04.740 Sandov has something about how this would have been better as a 57 00:03:04.740 --> 00:03:08.580 lead up to Genesis of the Daleks because it's such a bad 58 00:03:08.580 --> 00:03:12.539 anticlimax after Genesis of the Daleks. you know, Genesis Vidalaxy 59 00:03:12.539 --> 00:03:15.479 is this sort of virtuoso reinvention of the series, Greatest 60 00:03:15.479 --> 00:03:19.259 Monster, whereas this is just like a tiresome retread of the 61 00:03:19.259 --> 00:03:22.259 series, most disappointing Dalek substitute. 62 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:23.219 Hands on hips, though. 63 00:03:23.340 --> 00:03:24.659 It's Christopher Robbie. 64 00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:26.580 That's the carcass. 65 00:03:27.300 --> 00:03:31.439 And it's the 1st time we can easily understand what the cybermen 66 00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:31.740 are saying. 67 00:03:31.800 --> 00:03:34.620 Yeah, it's the 1st time they don't digitally augment or do them 68 00:03:34.620 --> 00:03:35.400 off camera. 69 00:03:35.460 --> 00:03:36.479 They're actually the actors in the suit. 70 00:03:36.539 --> 00:03:37.560 Yeah, yeah. 71 00:03:37.620 --> 00:03:39.240 They did have a little bit of augmentation on them. 72 00:03:39.300 --> 00:03:41.400 Just they flatten the voices out slightly. 73 00:03:41.400 --> 00:03:43.259 And the voice is terrible. 74 00:03:43.319 --> 00:03:45.060 Oh, but they're so bad. 75 00:03:45.060 --> 00:03:45.780 The voices. 76 00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:49.560 And I especially like that they're slightly they're slightly mid 77 00:03:48.780 --> 00:03:52.379 Atlantic in their in their in their delivery. 78 00:03:52.439 --> 00:03:54.300 Christopher Robbie has a weird accent. 79 00:03:54.360 --> 00:03:56.400 Everyone else is a posh English cyberman. 80 00:03:57.300 --> 00:04:00.900 Can I just say that I actually really like this story? 81 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:02.759 I think it's very underrated. 82 00:04:02.819 --> 00:04:07.259 I do agree that the cybermen are tired and it's actually quite 83 00:04:07.259 --> 00:04:10.080 good that they're not actually in the 1st couple of episodes. 84 00:04:10.139 --> 00:04:12.300 I love the vogans to death. 85 00:04:12.360 --> 00:04:15.960 The whole inter politics between the different long-haired and 86 00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:16.980 shorthaired movies. 87 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:17.819 No, I love it. 88 00:04:17.879 --> 00:04:18.300 I love it. 89 00:04:18.420 --> 00:04:20.100 I just love it as a kid and I love it now. 90 00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:23.339 I love all the tunnel work with Sarah and Harry and those little 91 00:04:23.339 --> 00:04:26.100 trollies going along. not have thick ankles. 92 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:28.680 Solid goals, stethoscope. 93 00:04:28.740 --> 00:04:30.420 That's such a funny line. 94 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:35.279 I just enjoy that. aspect of this entire story. and yes, it is 95 00:04:35.279 --> 00:04:38.579 flawed and there are, there are problems with the cybermen who are 96 00:04:38.579 --> 00:04:40.500 really not, but there's things ever. 97 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:42.240 I don't mind Christopher Robbie. 98 00:04:42.300 --> 00:04:45.540 Have we had wetsuit fetishistic spots yet? 99 00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:48.360 Christopher Robbie's bum with his hands on his tips from the back 100 00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:48.720 pretty good. 101 00:04:48.779 --> 00:04:49.740 I agree. 102 00:04:51.480 --> 00:04:54.660 I just remember that from the what you're saying. 103 00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:58.560 But, you know, when the Simon do give the doctor that his little 104 00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:04.199 shoulder massage. rope does that to the doctor. 105 00:05:04.259 --> 00:05:05.100 Zigo. 106 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:09.240 There has been a theory advance that Time Lord Shoulders are 107 00:05:09.240 --> 00:05:10.560 actually particularly vulnerable. 108 00:05:10.620 --> 00:05:13.560 The thing is, Tom's reaction is priceless. 109 00:05:13.620 --> 00:05:15.600 The look on his face is, are you really doing okay? 110 00:05:15.660 --> 00:05:17.519 Is that what we're doing? 111 00:05:17.579 --> 00:05:20.939 doing the shoulder master, are we, Christopher? 112 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:24.180 He doesn't look threatened or in pained at all. 113 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:26.519 He's just like, 0 God, can we get through this scene? 114 00:05:26.579 --> 00:05:28.259 Can I go back to the builder's yard actually? 115 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:29.519 We don't know. 116 00:05:29.579 --> 00:05:32.819 We don't know the internal physiognomy, the neurological. 117 00:05:32.939 --> 00:05:35.699 That could be that could be the time-lord sensitive spot. 118 00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:37.560 Backbone. 119 00:05:37.560 --> 00:05:38.939 Back to what you're saying. 120 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:41.519 Paul Sarah Jane Smith, who gets attacked by the cyber mat and has 121 00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:42.360 to defend it off with him. 122 00:05:42.420 --> 00:05:44.279 Is that the worst thing that's happened to Sarah yet? 123 00:05:44.339 --> 00:05:48.300 Oh, no, she's been tortured by Dr. Joseph Mengler and nearly 124 00:05:48.300 --> 00:05:52.500 dropped off a... not bitten by a huge fallicky bitey thing. 125 00:05:52.560 --> 00:05:53.459 It's pretty awful. 126 00:05:53.579 --> 00:05:56.339 But her and the guy who drives before her, just that breathing 127 00:05:56.339 --> 00:05:57.180 that... 128 00:05:57.240 --> 00:05:59.160 I actually think the brilliant thing. 129 00:05:59.220 --> 00:06:00.180 Is it CSO? 130 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:01.560 Like, it's front tackle. 131 00:06:01.620 --> 00:06:02.699 Is it really front axle? 132 00:06:02.759 --> 00:06:05.519 back to the moon base, actually. 133 00:06:05.579 --> 00:06:06.420 The same thing they were using. 134 00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:07.439 It says like the Lao. 135 00:06:07.500 --> 00:06:09.899 Wow, and indeed the Green Death. 136 00:06:09.959 --> 00:06:11.459 It looks so good. 137 00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:14.519 Yeah, yeah. it looks it looks great. 138 00:06:14.579 --> 00:06:17.579 So you just have a moment, though. a question for the audience. 139 00:06:17.639 --> 00:06:20.939 If you're able to get the virus out of Sarah by baming down, why 140 00:06:20.939 --> 00:06:21.839 don't they just do it with Noah? 141 00:06:22.620 --> 00:06:24.360 Well... 142 00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:26.639 That's big threat gone. 143 00:06:26.699 --> 00:06:28.379 And why aren't they all naked when they beam down? 144 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:29.040 Yeah. 145 00:06:29.100 --> 00:06:29.819 Well... 146 00:06:30.060 --> 00:06:32.220 Well, no, they are wearing organic fibres. 147 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:34.740 So why when the cybermen beamed down? 148 00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:37.259 Are they just not blobby messes of juba? 149 00:06:37.319 --> 00:06:39.420 No, because they're just robots actually. 150 00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:40.379 Yeah, no, it makes no sense. 151 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:43.319 So let's just talk about the plague. 152 00:06:43.379 --> 00:06:43.860 We arrived. 153 00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:44.879 There's been a giant plague. 154 00:06:44.939 --> 00:06:49.019 Sarah and Harry have to wander. have to wander through a big 155 00:06:49.019 --> 00:06:51.180 corridor full of corpses. 156 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:52.259 Like a switch off. 157 00:06:52.319 --> 00:06:55.920 Obviously not, which are obviously mannequins. 158 00:06:55.980 --> 00:06:56.579 Did you notice? 159 00:06:56.579 --> 00:06:59.639 They look really bad. the aftermath of the are you being served 160 00:06:59.639 --> 00:07:01.800 off as party? 161 00:07:01.860 --> 00:07:03.120 That's right. 162 00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:05.339 Did you notice that it's also everyone else? 163 00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:09.060 There are occasional twitching corpses, and it's everyone else 164 00:07:09.060 --> 00:07:10.079 from the series. 165 00:07:10.079 --> 00:07:12.480 It just lies on the ground. 166 00:07:12.540 --> 00:07:14.220 Yeah, yeah, yeah. everyone gets have a go. 167 00:07:14.279 --> 00:07:15.060 Yeah. 168 00:07:15.060 --> 00:07:17.399 And again, that's the horror of season 12. 169 00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:18.480 Do you know what I mean? 170 00:07:18.540 --> 00:07:22.199 Like it's just a little bit too awful for the kiddies at home. 171 00:07:22.259 --> 00:07:24.540 You know, then Sarah gets the plague. 172 00:07:24.600 --> 00:07:25.920 No, Warner gets the plague. 173 00:07:25.980 --> 00:07:26.699 Do you know what I mean? 174 00:07:26.759 --> 00:07:28.740 And then Sarah gets the plague. 175 00:07:28.740 --> 00:07:32.160 And for some reason, Sarah's sitting watching the world's most 176 00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:33.540 boring television program. 177 00:07:33.540 --> 00:07:35.939 And leafing through a magazine. 178 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:37.560 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 179 00:07:37.620 --> 00:07:39.899 Yeah, yeah, it's like the reminder room. 180 00:07:40.740 --> 00:07:42.720 Do you know what she's reading? 181 00:07:42.779 --> 00:07:43.920 It's a science fiction mag. 182 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:47.339 Michael Morecock is in it praising the new series of Doctor Who. 183 00:07:47.399 --> 00:07:48.300 Is she really? 184 00:07:48.360 --> 00:07:49.860 Oh, yeah, yeah. 185 00:07:49.920 --> 00:07:51.000 It's an in joke. 186 00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:52.439 Oh, that's pretty good. 187 00:07:52.500 --> 00:07:54.480 Too early for DWB, I guess. 188 00:07:54.540 --> 00:07:57.899 Roland Lee Hunt and William Marlowe. 189 00:07:57.959 --> 00:08:00.060 One of the is Commander Radner? 190 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:05.339 Yes, well, he was Commander Radner, and now he's... 191 00:08:05.339 --> 00:08:07.139 Stevenson, I want to say, yeah. 192 00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:08.339 I like them. 193 00:08:08.459 --> 00:08:09.720 I do too. 194 00:08:09.779 --> 00:08:11.699 They're proper actors, they underplay. 195 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:13.920 I especially like the 2 I see. 196 00:08:14.220 --> 00:08:16.560 Leicester, Leicesterson. 197 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:21.060 Leicesterson, who was... 198 00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:23.160 He was previously maleer in line of evil. 199 00:08:23.220 --> 00:08:24.899 And he plays himself... 200 00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:25.500 Yes, yes. 201 00:08:25.560 --> 00:08:27.899 I was going to say, bomb, that's going to blow up half of this 202 00:08:27.899 --> 00:08:29.819 asteroid, and then it just sort of blows up a cat. 203 00:08:29.879 --> 00:08:31.079 No, no, they still explain it. 204 00:08:31.139 --> 00:08:34.500 Yeah, the buckle is the buckle on the front. 205 00:08:34.559 --> 00:08:35.639 So the bomb itself. 206 00:08:35.700 --> 00:08:37.860 Otherwise, it'd just be silly, wouldn't it? 207 00:08:38.519 --> 00:08:42.720 So that's for plague, and it's cured by waving our hands and a bit 208 00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:46.559 of rollback and mix and suddenly we're in Wookiehole and we're 209 00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:46.860 cured. 210 00:08:46.980 --> 00:08:50.100 And the cure for it is then stolen by Star Trek, the next 211 00:08:50.100 --> 00:08:51.360 generation, unnatural selection. 212 00:08:51.419 --> 00:08:52.980 Gosh, that's a terrible episode. 213 00:08:53.039 --> 00:08:54.179 Let us never speak of it again. 214 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:55.919 Yeah, even pure age. 215 00:08:55.980 --> 00:08:56.700 Moving on. 216 00:08:57.419 --> 00:09:01.080 But, you know, it's it's an episode that highlights Diana Maldor 217 00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:02.399 and I can forgive it anything. 218 00:09:02.460 --> 00:09:06.179 Dr. Pulaski, we can physically separate this one and all. 219 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:09.539 Yeah, we can physically separate you from the latex that appears 220 00:09:09.539 --> 00:09:12.659 to be making up your outer epidermal layer by just putting you 221 00:09:12.659 --> 00:09:13.500 through the transporter. 222 00:09:13.559 --> 00:09:16.500 She plays the satin 5 thrusters in this. 223 00:09:17.100 --> 00:09:20.100 No, in fact, there are no women in this apart from Sarah. 224 00:09:20.159 --> 00:09:22.860 So, it's... 225 00:09:22.860 --> 00:09:23.519 Oh, I don't know. 226 00:09:23.580 --> 00:09:24.299 You can't tell me. 227 00:09:24.419 --> 00:09:25.320 What about some other focus? 228 00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:28.919 Well, in fact, let's move on. 229 00:09:28.980 --> 00:09:29.700 Yes, please. 230 00:09:29.759 --> 00:09:33.659 So the 2nd thing, and the thing that you identified Todd, is one 231 00:09:33.659 --> 00:09:36.419 of your favourite things about the story is the planet Vogga, and 232 00:09:36.419 --> 00:09:39.419 that's, you know, so we've got the human beings, we've got Vogga 233 00:09:39.419 --> 00:09:40.200 and we'll come to the side. 234 00:09:40.259 --> 00:09:41.700 I want to have a party on Planet Vogel. 235 00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:42.360 What a disco. 236 00:09:42.419 --> 00:09:45.659 So I think that... 237 00:09:45.659 --> 00:09:49.440 Todd and I are not going to agree about the planet Voga because I 238 00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:50.159 just think it's terrible. 239 00:09:50.220 --> 00:09:53.940 One of the things is we have an utterly spectacular cast playing 240 00:09:53.940 --> 00:09:54.659 the Vogans. 241 00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:57.779 So the three, there's someone called Shepherd, who I can't 242 00:09:57.779 --> 00:09:58.320 remember who that is. 243 00:09:58.440 --> 00:09:59.580 Brian Grellis? 244 00:09:59.639 --> 00:10:00.299 Yeah, I know. 245 00:10:00.360 --> 00:10:02.460 I looked him up and he's beating something before, but it wasn't 246 00:10:02.460 --> 00:10:02.879 very interesting. 247 00:10:02.940 --> 00:10:08.220 So we get Tyrum, who is played by Kevin Stone, who is just, you 248 00:10:08.220 --> 00:10:12.299 know, superb in his previous performances in Doctor Who. 249 00:10:12.360 --> 00:10:14.100 And he's been away as long as the Spider-Man. 250 00:10:14.159 --> 00:10:16.860 Yeah, well, the invasion was the last. 251 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:17.820 Was that nice? 252 00:10:17.820 --> 00:10:18.720 He's great in this. 253 00:10:18.779 --> 00:10:22.019 Yeah, but he's covered in a big latex mask. 254 00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:23.220 So that's what makes it better. 255 00:10:23.279 --> 00:10:27.779 And then you get David Collings, who is just tremendous and he 256 00:10:27.779 --> 00:10:32.039 will come back and be pool in Robots of Death and silver in 257 00:10:32.039 --> 00:10:33.480 Sapphire. 258 00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:36.600 And Monkey, the voice of Monkey. 259 00:10:36.659 --> 00:10:37.620 The voice of monkey. 260 00:10:37.679 --> 00:10:39.480 And with Miriam Margolis. 261 00:10:39.539 --> 00:10:41.940 And then you get Michael... with a tissue. 262 00:10:41.940 --> 00:10:45.179 And Michael Wishes already had a bit of a go at being every voice 263 00:10:45.179 --> 00:10:49.379 on the radio that Warner listens to in episode one. 264 00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:51.360 But now he's here as a character by himself. 265 00:10:51.419 --> 00:10:55.559 And so we actually have 2 factions and this is the thing that I 266 00:10:55.559 --> 00:10:57.600 think is really a bit tired. 267 00:10:57.659 --> 00:11:02.159 So you have the conservatives and they all wear dresses and have 268 00:11:02.159 --> 00:11:04.500 long girly hair and they're led by time. 269 00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:05.340 The Whigs, aren't they? 270 00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:06.480 If they are the Tories, yeah. 271 00:11:06.539 --> 00:11:08.940 No, the wig's brilliant. 272 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:12.779 So they're conservative and they're isolationist and they don't 273 00:11:12.779 --> 00:11:16.139 want, they don't want to attract the side with attention. 274 00:11:16.259 --> 00:11:17.340 We'll have no trouble. 275 00:11:17.399 --> 00:11:18.360 And so that's it. 276 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:20.220 And then you've got Vorus. 277 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:22.980 And I actually think Vorus is quite good and he has a pretty good 278 00:11:22.980 --> 00:11:23.460 mask. 279 00:11:23.519 --> 00:11:25.200 I'm very sympathetic to Boris. 280 00:11:25.259 --> 00:11:27.000 Boris is actually the only one that leads the narrative. 281 00:11:27.059 --> 00:11:28.139 This is what I want to say. 282 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:33.120 He is the character who wants to change the economic system, make 283 00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:35.100 life better for his people. 284 00:11:35.159 --> 00:11:36.059 Have a few, you know what I mean? 285 00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:37.139 That's right. 286 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:40.919 And he, because he bucks the system and because he, you know 287 00:11:40.919 --> 00:11:44.460 refuses to do whatever the conservative time says, he's the 288 00:11:44.460 --> 00:11:45.659 villain, you know what I mean? 289 00:11:45.720 --> 00:11:46.919 And so he's the bad guy. 290 00:11:46.980 --> 00:11:50.580 We all sort of anger at him, you know, he has to be killed at the 291 00:11:50.580 --> 00:11:51.419 end and so on. 292 00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:53.399 And I think it's really reactionary. 293 00:11:53.460 --> 00:11:55.679 Like I think that the politics are reactionary. 294 00:11:55.740 --> 00:12:00.600 And I just think those endless scenes of the men in the dresses 295 00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:04.799 and like long-haired men in dresses and bold men in trousers 296 00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:08.820 firing guns at each other across the studio are really very 297 00:12:08.820 --> 00:12:09.659 boring. 298 00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:12.539 Oh, those little sequences outside the chambers, yes. 299 00:12:12.600 --> 00:12:16.080 Yeah, look, I mean, it's Wookiehole is a great location and all of 300 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:18.600 the stuff shot in the caverns is wonderful and they have 301 00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:20.399 speedboats and all sorts of things. 302 00:12:20.460 --> 00:12:21.840 It's really terrific. 303 00:12:21.899 --> 00:12:24.960 That is great, but I don't like the Vogans. 304 00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:27.840 I just don't think they're all that new or interesting. 305 00:12:27.899 --> 00:12:32.039 I think the big problem there is the masks being so immutable. 306 00:12:32.100 --> 00:12:36.179 David Collings one fits quite well, but nobody else's mask fits 307 00:12:36.179 --> 00:12:38.039 quite well and it looks like a mask. 308 00:12:38.100 --> 00:12:40.379 It's not like the draconians where you still had so much 309 00:12:40.379 --> 00:12:41.460 expression in the faces. 310 00:12:41.580 --> 00:12:46.080 But one character whom we haven't mentioned yet is Kelman. 311 00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:52.019 The civilian, the civilian geologist slash spy slash James Bond 312 00:12:52.019 --> 00:12:53.220 memorabilia collector. 313 00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:55.620 Slash mass murder. 314 00:12:55.740 --> 00:13:00.000 So he's killing off everybody in the beacon for Boris. 315 00:13:00.059 --> 00:13:04.559 And he's also working for the Sidemen, but he's working for Vorus 316 00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:06.600 to lure the Simon this and it's confusing. 317 00:13:06.659 --> 00:13:07.500 Okay. 318 00:13:07.500 --> 00:13:08.519 And they cyberman? 319 00:13:08.580 --> 00:13:10.259 No, no. let me try and work it out. 320 00:13:10.320 --> 00:13:13.139 The cybermen want him to kill all of the people on the station 321 00:13:13.139 --> 00:13:16.320 except for 3 people, so those 3 people can carry their bombs down 322 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:17.159 to Voga. 323 00:13:17.220 --> 00:13:21.840 But what he's really doing is luring the cybermen on the station 324 00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:25.559 in order to blow them up in order to blow them up with the sky 325 00:13:25.559 --> 00:13:26.039 striker. 326 00:13:26.100 --> 00:13:28.919 I think he's playing each off for his own benefit. 327 00:13:28.919 --> 00:13:31.259 Well, no, no, because the doctor makes it very clear that the 328 00:13:31.259 --> 00:13:32.700 sidemen have nothing to offer him. 329 00:13:32.759 --> 00:13:36.600 And so the doctor begins to suspect that Kelman, it doesn't really 330 00:13:36.600 --> 00:13:40.259 go anywhere, but he twice asks, you know, when he gets hold of the 331 00:13:40.259 --> 00:13:44.039 bomb in episode 3 and he's threatening to blow the sidemen up. 332 00:13:44.100 --> 00:13:46.740 He wants to know what's in it for Calman, what can the sidemen 333 00:13:46.740 --> 00:13:47.759 possibly offer Calman? 334 00:13:47.820 --> 00:13:50.580 And it's obvious if there's a planet of gold, what he's really 335 00:13:50.580 --> 00:13:52.139 doing it for, is the gold. 336 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:57.960 So, so he is not a very principal character because he kills a 337 00:13:57.960 --> 00:13:59.460 whole bunch of people, 48 people. 338 00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:01.200 But it's not Vorus's fault. 339 00:14:01.259 --> 00:14:02.100 Do you know what I mean? 340 00:14:02.159 --> 00:14:06.000 Vorus isn't paying him to pay him to kill everyone. 341 00:14:06.059 --> 00:14:08.759 He's paying him to get the sidemen on board. 342 00:14:08.820 --> 00:14:09.960 I think that's what's happening. 343 00:14:10.019 --> 00:14:10.740 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 344 00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:12.960 Does Boris do anything in this that we would actually find 345 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:13.860 objectionable? 346 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:17.220 He, like, he doesn't give the doctor his full 5 minutes or 347 00:14:17.220 --> 00:14:20.519 something at the end, you know, like death in other words, yeah. 348 00:14:20.580 --> 00:14:24.240 But I don't know why he's the villain. you know what I mean? 349 00:14:24.299 --> 00:14:25.259 It's a very good point. 350 00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:29.399 I think a lot of these problems boil down to Jerry Davis being a 351 00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:32.639 very old-fashioned writer because they had terrible problems with 352 00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:33.779 the script behind the scenes. 353 00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:36.600 This is the casino in space story. 354 00:14:36.659 --> 00:14:39.179 Yeah, it was going to be a casino in space and then I don't think 355 00:14:39.179 --> 00:14:40.620 it was Hinchley for Holmes. 356 00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:43.559 I think it was someone higher up at the BBC objected to the idea 357 00:14:43.559 --> 00:14:46.440 of gambling appearing on the program, and that would, again, rear 358 00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:47.100 its head. 359 00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:51.179 That would again rear its head about 5 years later, it was City of 360 00:14:51.179 --> 00:14:54.240 Death, which was originally to be based around the casino as 361 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:54.480 well. 362 00:14:54.539 --> 00:14:56.399 A gambling time, it was going to be called. 363 00:14:56.460 --> 00:14:57.360 That's right, too. 364 00:14:57.480 --> 00:15:00.360 Bob Holmes and Phil Peterson, I've had both said later on that 365 00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:05.700 Jerry Davis's characterisation was very thin on the ground and 366 00:15:05.700 --> 00:15:10.620 they did also petition him to have more female characters, but the 367 00:15:10.620 --> 00:15:15.179 relationship became so not exactly adversarial or acrimonious, but 368 00:15:15.179 --> 00:15:19.200 difficult that eventually they just kind of went, okay, this is 369 00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:19.980 what he's given us. 370 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:24.960 We don't have much time, we'll rework it as much as we humanly can 371 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:26.340 in the time period we've got. 372 00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:28.620 Because remember, even though this is the last story of the 373 00:15:28.620 --> 00:15:32.820 broadcast season, It was actually the 3rd story in the production 374 00:15:32.820 --> 00:15:33.360 block. 375 00:15:33.419 --> 00:15:36.240 They'd already had massive problems with the arc in space, which 376 00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:38.820 Robert Holmes had to rewrite from the start. 377 00:15:38.940 --> 00:15:41.879 This is on rewrite. a softer rewrite. 378 00:15:41.940 --> 00:15:43.019 This is a softer rewrite. 379 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:45.720 It essentially follows Jerry Davis's plot. 380 00:15:47.340 --> 00:15:52.379 The words, if you like, are not necessarily his. 381 00:15:52.500 --> 00:15:55.080 They've tried to flesh out the plot a bit more. 382 00:15:55.139 --> 00:15:58.740 And I think that's possibly why the 2 factions of vogans don't 383 00:15:58.740 --> 00:16:02.820 really work because it's like, let's introduce enough detail to 384 00:16:02.820 --> 00:16:04.740 make it clear that there are 2 factions. 385 00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:09.000 Let's not look too closely at the motivations in case it all falls 386 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:09.179 down. 387 00:16:09.299 --> 00:16:12.600 Yeah, okay, well, I mean, there are your points. 388 00:16:12.659 --> 00:16:13.320 I still love them. 389 00:16:13.379 --> 00:16:17.159 I love their use of the time. symbol. 390 00:16:17.220 --> 00:16:20.700 Kelman, of course, doesn't get to go on location, so he gets blown 391 00:16:20.700 --> 00:16:23.340 up at the end of episode three. 392 00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:25.019 I like to think he escaped in Thunderbird 2. 393 00:16:25.139 --> 00:16:27.600 He's the voice of the 2nd Virgil from Thunderbird. 394 00:16:27.659 --> 00:16:28.259 Oh, I see. 395 00:16:28.259 --> 00:16:33.419 The doctor gets to scream out, Harry, Sullivan isn't... when he 396 00:16:33.419 --> 00:16:37.019 tries to open up the bomb and clasp. 397 00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:39.419 No, so can we talk about that? 398 00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:42.360 They get these bombs strapped to them, and they have to walk down 399 00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:43.500 to the centre of Volga. 400 00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:46.379 So how does gravity work on Voger, exactly. 401 00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:47.340 Do you know what I mean? 402 00:16:47.399 --> 00:16:50.159 Like, we see a cross-section of Voga. 403 00:16:50.220 --> 00:16:55.259 They're walking down into the middle of the asteroid. 404 00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:58.980 Why aren't they falling down a shaft into the middle of the 405 00:16:58.980 --> 00:16:59.639 asteroid? 406 00:16:59.700 --> 00:17:00.539 Do you know what I mean? 407 00:17:00.779 --> 00:17:01.320 With the air coming? 408 00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:02.940 Yeah, no, it's crazy. 409 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:04.079 Crazy, crazy, crazy. 410 00:17:04.140 --> 00:17:06.900 I hate it when Doctor Who isn't scientifically accurate. 411 00:17:07.019 --> 00:17:08.460 It's one of the worst... 412 00:17:08.460 --> 00:17:10.740 You know, they did research that Hinchcliffe actually commissioned 413 00:17:10.740 --> 00:17:11.460 someone... 414 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:13.920 Hinchcliffe actually commissioned someone to go and... 415 00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:18.420 To go to an asteroid to go and check on how compatible life on an 416 00:17:18.420 --> 00:17:19.740 asteroid would be for human life. 417 00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:20.759 I think they probably did. 418 00:17:20.819 --> 00:17:22.259 When did you get the fire that away? 419 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:23.279 Who knows? 420 00:17:23.339 --> 00:17:24.240 Look, it's in the nose. 421 00:17:24.299 --> 00:17:29.160 This is just one of those stories that I'd enjoy watching and I 422 00:17:29.160 --> 00:17:31.380 don't think about all of those scientifically. 423 00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:32.819 They wash over me. 424 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:34.859 It could be a Trouton story, couldn't it, Tom? 425 00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:37.619 It is a bit wheeling spacish, actually, isn't it? 426 00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:39.480 you know, it's it's good fun. 427 00:17:39.539 --> 00:17:41.700 I still think it's under undervalued. 428 00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:43.619 I've always enjoyed our ropey part. 429 00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:46.859 It is very strange in the context of the season, though, isn't 430 00:17:46.859 --> 00:17:47.039 it? 431 00:17:47.099 --> 00:17:50.099 Where everything is really grim and gruesome and kind of 432 00:17:50.099 --> 00:17:54.059 horrifying, and this is initially looking like it's going to be 433 00:17:54.059 --> 00:17:57.480 that, but it just ends up being a sort of fairly crappy 60 star 434 00:17:57.480 --> 00:17:58.019 runaround. 435 00:17:58.079 --> 00:17:58.920 Do you know what I mean? 436 00:17:58.980 --> 00:18:00.119 Not that there's anything wrong with it. 437 00:18:00.180 --> 00:18:00.839 No, no, no. 438 00:18:00.900 --> 00:18:05.220 It's a whole 60s full of crappy 60s style run around. 439 00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:08.940 And for about 20 minutes in the middle, you have this very Leslie 440 00:18:08.940 --> 00:18:14.519 Nielsen police squad naked gun style shootout to members of the 2 441 00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:19.200 factions hiding behind these stalagmites about 5 feet away from 442 00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:23.819 each other. just popping up on a pew, pew, pew, pew. 443 00:18:24.539 --> 00:18:27.480 And people then run between... 444 00:18:27.539 --> 00:18:30.660 It's so it, but it's endearingly ridiculous. 445 00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:32.940 The ending's very rushed. 446 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:35.940 I mean, Simon are pretty sad, really, that they don't detect that 447 00:18:35.940 --> 00:18:40.259 it's a huge missile on its way to destroy their spaceship until 448 00:18:40.259 --> 00:18:41.400 the very last moment. 449 00:18:41.460 --> 00:18:42.839 And they just sort of sit there. 450 00:18:42.900 --> 00:18:46.259 I mean, if this is the iconic return of a really crappy second 451 00:18:46.259 --> 00:18:50.099 rate monster that no one liked very much after 6 whole years, you 452 00:18:50.099 --> 00:18:52.440 know, for the 1st time in such a long time. 453 00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:55.440 Like when we 1st see them, they're just sitting in chairs. 454 00:18:55.500 --> 00:18:59.880 Like we get a shot of Simon just sitting in chairs and then we go 455 00:18:59.880 --> 00:19:01.200 somewhere else. 456 00:19:01.259 --> 00:19:01.859 Do you know what I mean? 457 00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:05.160 And we already knew that... 458 00:19:05.220 --> 00:19:08.279 But we already knew they were going to be in the story. 459 00:19:08.339 --> 00:19:11.099 We didn't need a sort of shot of Simon to show that they were sort 460 00:19:11.099 --> 00:19:12.059 of going to be there. 461 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:16.079 And then, you know, there's lots of sort of stupid cyber plans 462 00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:17.220 which is kind of what we want. 463 00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:20.160 And then they're kind of killed unceremoniously as well. 464 00:19:20.220 --> 00:19:23.640 You know, like it is a bit of a poor outing for them. 465 00:19:23.700 --> 00:19:27.000 It also doesn't help that when the doctor berates them. 466 00:19:27.059 --> 00:19:28.019 You've got no home planet. 467 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:28.980 No influence nothing. 468 00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:31.500 You're just a pathetic bunch of tin soldiers skulking about the 469 00:19:31.500 --> 00:19:33.180 galaxy in ancient ancient spaceship. 470 00:19:33.299 --> 00:19:35.819 There's no comeback to that. 471 00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:36.779 No. 472 00:19:36.779 --> 00:19:39.299 There's no then show of force. 473 00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:42.839 It's all right for the doctor to belittle a monster because 474 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:45.180 usually what will then happen is the monster will prove their 475 00:19:45.180 --> 00:19:48.599 strength and the audience will go, oh yeah, okay, we even though 476 00:19:48.599 --> 00:19:49.859 the doctor is being jokey. 477 00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:51.480 We can be terrified of them here. 478 00:19:51.539 --> 00:19:55.200 But here the cyberman just goes, I'm going to give you another 479 00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:56.279 Swedish massage. 480 00:19:57.420 --> 00:20:01.079 When they come back again, do you know what I mean after another 481 00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:02.640 six, 7 years? 482 00:20:02.700 --> 00:20:04.380 They actually do have a comeback. 483 00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:07.140 You know, the doctor talks to them and then they threaten to kill 484 00:20:07.140 --> 00:20:08.339 Teakon. you know what I mean? 485 00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:11.099 But here also they're just robots. 486 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:13.799 So the idea that they're sort of zombies or that they can convert 487 00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:17.339 us or that they're our dark sides or something like that. 488 00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:20.400 They've got a big pile of spare parts in their spaceship from 489 00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:22.259 which they can build a new cyber army. 490 00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:25.319 They don't need to assimilate people or whatever it is they do. 491 00:20:25.380 --> 00:20:27.779 They don't need to do cyber conversion or anything like that. 492 00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:31.799 And I just think that makes them very boring. 493 00:20:31.859 --> 00:20:32.460 Yeah. 494 00:20:32.519 --> 00:20:33.779 Yeah, very generic. 495 00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:34.559 Do you know what I mean? 496 00:20:34.619 --> 00:20:36.059 They could be any anything. 497 00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:37.740 Which is a brand cyberman. 498 00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:40.440 I do think that Christopher Robbie's performance is very good. 499 00:20:40.500 --> 00:20:41.460 I do like it. 500 00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:43.440 Nathan is stony faced at this point. 501 00:20:43.500 --> 00:20:46.559 I just remember a cottage undersiege article, which was like the 502 00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:47.099 1st five. 503 00:20:47.099 --> 00:20:50.220 Five worst ever performances in Doctor Who. 504 00:20:50.279 --> 00:20:51.299 I don't think it is. 505 00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:54.359 I think Jenny Laird came within there, obviously. 506 00:20:54.420 --> 00:20:57.420 But Christopher Robbie was one of them, because he struts about 507 00:20:57.420 --> 00:20:59.700 with his hands on his hips and stuff, and he's supposed to be. 508 00:20:59.700 --> 00:21:00.779 In his shiny wetsuit. 509 00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:02.160 An emotionless robot. 510 00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:03.420 Shiny wetsuit. 511 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:05.880 Well, you know, it is called Revenge of the Cyberman, so you can 512 00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:07.319 hardly blame it for that. 513 00:21:07.380 --> 00:21:09.180 I don't think it's a terrible performance. 514 00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:11.640 Yeah, they don't have emotions, do they? 515 00:21:11.700 --> 00:21:14.099 So it should just be called reaction of the stuff. 516 00:21:15.299 --> 00:21:18.839 David Banks in his wonderful book, Doctor Who. 517 00:21:18.900 --> 00:21:19.980 Doctor Who, Cyberman. 518 00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:22.380 Oh, God, and we haven't even got to how much I hate David Bates 519 00:21:22.380 --> 00:21:23.460 and Cyberleader. 520 00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:24.000 Moving on. 521 00:21:24.119 --> 00:21:25.019 I'll agree. 522 00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:30.299 He gives a great account of why at times Cybermen might show 523 00:21:30.299 --> 00:21:30.660 emotion. 524 00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:35.940 They're really fed up and they're really tired and they just need 525 00:21:35.940 --> 00:21:36.420 a hug. 526 00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:39.779 No, it's like, it's like, you know what? 527 00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:47.279 An actor whose character's spouse has died will act with grief, but 528 00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:49.920 the actor themselves in their real life will not feel that because 529 00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:50.819 it's acting. 530 00:21:50.940 --> 00:21:55.079 Cybermen have no emotions, but they constantly recognise that 531 00:21:55.079 --> 00:21:55.980 humans have emotions. 532 00:21:56.099 --> 00:22:01.680 So they learn to emulate emotions to get a reaction. 533 00:22:01.740 --> 00:22:05.579 They learn to emulate confidence and arrogance and superiority 534 00:22:05.640 --> 00:22:06.539 child. 535 00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:08.759 Children with sociopaic tendency. 536 00:22:08.819 --> 00:22:09.779 No, no, they actually do. 537 00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:11.579 They will watch their parents. 538 00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:16.920 I have a friend whose whose child has, is actually, is sociopathic 539 00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:19.619 by her doctor and as a very young girl, she would sit and watch 540 00:22:19.619 --> 00:22:22.140 the television when everyone else is watching Doctor Who. 541 00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:26.640 The child would be watching her mother and her brother's emotional 542 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:30.000 reactions to it, to learn how to emulate it because she didn't 543 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:31.799 have the responses of fear or love. 544 00:22:31.859 --> 00:22:33.119 They walk amongst us. 545 00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:35.400 So yeah, you know, he works. 546 00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:37.740 The cyber leader saying things like, it will be a fantastic 547 00:22:37.740 --> 00:22:38.460 spectacle. 548 00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:40.980 Unfortunately, you will not be alive to see it. 549 00:22:45.420 --> 00:22:48.839 If only you had to do a voice treatment for that sound. 550 00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:54.960 But no, you see, that saying that is about instilling terror 551 00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:57.720 because he's picked up on the fact that the doctor is sarcastic. 552 00:22:57.779 --> 00:23:01.680 So he decides I'm going, you know, the doctor is being sarcastic 553 00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:02.700 to intimidate me. 554 00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:03.960 Of course, I am not intimidated. 555 00:23:04.019 --> 00:23:08.579 I am a cyberman, but the human female will be intimidated by my 556 00:23:08.579 --> 00:23:10.440 sarcasm and by my flippancy. 557 00:23:10.500 --> 00:23:13.740 I liked it better when sidemen went on about people's stupider 558 00:23:13.740 --> 00:23:14.579 earth brains. 559 00:23:14.700 --> 00:23:16.559 That was much better. 560 00:23:16.619 --> 00:23:20.579 I love the way the doctor and Sarah twist around to watch though 561 00:23:20.579 --> 00:23:21.480 they're coming up. 562 00:23:21.539 --> 00:23:22.380 It's very marks proper. 563 00:23:22.859 --> 00:23:24.299 And so Voger coming up on the screen. 564 00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:29.880 Like suddenly Voga is like a toilet roll with craters on it. 565 00:23:29.940 --> 00:23:33.839 They're just revolving around and around in a kind of horrible 566 00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:37.559 precursor to the season 4 Blake 7, I think. 567 00:23:37.619 --> 00:23:40.319 Oh, there's nothing wrong with Ash. like it. 568 00:23:40.380 --> 00:23:42.359 It's, it's... 569 00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:46.140 Brendan, for the listener at home. just did a very convincing 570 00:23:46.140 --> 00:23:47.880 Travis with a dessert spoon. 571 00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:48.720 They've died. 572 00:23:48.779 --> 00:23:50.220 I was being Madame Cavarian. 573 00:23:50.700 --> 00:23:54.240 So, but that isn't the worst special effect, of course. 574 00:23:54.299 --> 00:23:58.200 The worst special effect is suddenly that Vorus's sky striker has 575 00:23:58.200 --> 00:24:01.740 the words United States written on the side because it's just 576 00:24:01.740 --> 00:24:05.759 stock footage of the Saturn 5 rocket going up as usual. 577 00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:07.619 We can't win a morgue. 578 00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:08.640 No, I mean, look. 579 00:24:08.700 --> 00:24:11.700 I mean, if we were watching, if we were worried about ropey 580 00:24:11.700 --> 00:24:12.240 special effects. 581 00:24:12.299 --> 00:24:16.019 We wouldn't have done 31 episodes of a podcast about Doctor Who, to 582 00:24:16.019 --> 00:24:16.319 be honest. 583 00:24:16.440 --> 00:24:19.680 And it's nice to have the TARDIS back at the end of that. 584 00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:23.220 Episode, the brigadiers called him back. 585 00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:24.059 I love blue. 586 00:24:24.059 --> 00:24:25.019 Sarah's reaction. 587 00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:26.519 It turned out it was blue. 588 00:24:26.579 --> 00:24:31.500 I love Sarah's reaction to it because it's the 2nd that the 589 00:24:31.500 --> 00:24:32.819 problem gets resolved. 590 00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:36.180 You know, the 2nd that there's no goodbyes or anything, Harry 591 00:24:36.180 --> 00:24:40.079 turns up in the trans mat, the TARDIS turns up just instantly that 592 00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:40.500 second. 593 00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:43.559 The doctor says we'll go, Sarah's kind of rolling her eyes and 594 00:24:43.559 --> 00:24:45.299 going, oh, it's all go, isn't it? 595 00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:50.579 And she gets, then she learns that the brigadier has a crisis and 596 00:24:50.579 --> 00:24:53.279 she's, she looks horribly pained, you know. 597 00:24:53.339 --> 00:24:55.920 And there's a sense in which that's kind of nice. 598 00:24:55.980 --> 00:25:01.200 But it does kind of undersell the level of horror that she's 599 00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:05.819 experienced over the last, you know, 16 weeks or however long it's 600 00:25:05.819 --> 00:25:06.000 been. 601 00:25:06.059 --> 00:25:10.500 Well, I just think, as I was saying a few episodes ago, it 602 00:25:10.500 --> 00:25:15.240 underlines her her resilience and her indomitable nature. 603 00:25:15.299 --> 00:25:19.079 When the doctor talks about humanity in Arkin Space and how 604 00:25:19.079 --> 00:25:23.279 wonderful and inventive and indomitable they are, it's then up to 605 00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:27.839 Harry and Sarah to be the proof of that over the season because in 606 00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:31.799 Santaran experiment, we don't have earthborn humans or humans from 607 00:25:31.799 --> 00:25:33.119 even remotely in our era. 608 00:25:33.180 --> 00:25:37.380 In Genesis of Dialects, we only have Sarah and Harry as humans. 609 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:41.880 And again, in revenge of the cybermen, they're our modern day 610 00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:44.759 humans to relate to this strange alien world. 611 00:25:44.819 --> 00:25:50.579 So their reactions to the horrible things they've been through, not 612 00:25:50.579 --> 00:25:54.960 allowing it to make them cynical and horrible themselves, but 613 00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:58.319 coming out of it with this view of, you know, we've taken this on 614 00:25:58.319 --> 00:26:02.400 we can do anything, including we can afford to make light of the 615 00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:04.200 fact that we're heading into another emergency. 616 00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:07.980 It goes back to that speech and it proves exactly what the doctor 617 00:26:07.980 --> 00:26:08.400 was saying. 618 00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:13.140 I just think it makes the characters kind of, it diminishes the 619 00:26:13.140 --> 00:26:14.579 characters as real people. 620 00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:18.480 You know, Doctor Who is a show that doesn't show long-term 621 00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:19.140 consequences. 622 00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:20.279 Do you know what I mean? 623 00:26:20.339 --> 00:26:23.519 We're off on another jolly adventure, and it's been like that 624 00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:26.400 forever, and it shouldn't become a show where we spend a lot of 625 00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:29.039 time agonising about the, you know, terrible things that have 626 00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:29.579 happened to us. 627 00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:31.559 You know, we should feel like the characters are having fun. 628 00:26:31.619 --> 00:26:35.700 I just felt that this year Sarah has not been having fun. 629 00:26:35.819 --> 00:26:38.279 And I love season 12. 630 00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:41.400 I've really, really enjoyed this and I think, you know, it 631 00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:45.000 represents a sudden uptick in quality in the whole show, you know 632 00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:46.920 it's Bob Holmes, it's Tom Baker. 633 00:26:46.980 --> 00:26:49.619 It's my absolute Christmas present as far as Doctor Who's 634 00:26:49.619 --> 00:26:53.160 concerned, but I just do have this niggling feeling that there is 635 00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:54.059 something wrong with it. 636 00:26:54.180 --> 00:26:57.599 I've thoroughly enjoyed watching this season. 637 00:26:57.660 --> 00:27:04.380 Tom is just amazing and Ian Martin, Elizabeth Slade, and I, Go 638 00:27:04.380 --> 00:27:04.980 along with him. 639 00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:08.460 They're just a wonderful team and, you know, it's reflected in the 640 00:27:08.460 --> 00:27:10.019 show's ratings. 641 00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:14.579 There's only 2 episodes in this season that place outside the top 642 00:27:14.579 --> 00:27:19.200 30 shows in Britain, never before, and it's going to continue up 643 00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:20.160 and up over the next 2 years. 644 00:27:20.220 --> 00:27:22.740 And let's remember that's not just because there's a new doctor 645 00:27:22.740 --> 00:27:24.960 because this has happened 3 times before. 646 00:27:25.019 --> 00:27:28.980 Well, this is the 3rd, but it's a combination of the doctor and 647 00:27:28.980 --> 00:27:30.839 the writing and just the chemistry. 648 00:27:30.900 --> 00:27:31.500 And what's going on? 649 00:27:31.619 --> 00:27:32.940 And I think Liz and Ian. 650 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:33.720 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 651 00:27:34.140 --> 00:27:38.339 It's time for our Jenny Laird awards for most puzzling creative 652 00:27:38.339 --> 00:27:38.700 choice. 653 00:27:38.880 --> 00:27:42.779 I've intimated this very episode. 654 00:27:43.079 --> 00:27:50.099 My Jenny Led Award would go to Roger Murray Leach or possibly Prue 655 00:27:50.099 --> 00:27:51.660 Handley or Cecil Hay Arthur. 656 00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:53.819 I'm not sure exactly who was responsible, but they are 657 00:27:53.819 --> 00:27:57.059 respectively the designer, costume designer, and makeup designer 658 00:27:57.059 --> 00:27:58.920 of Revenge of the Cybermen. 659 00:27:58.980 --> 00:28:03.420 And it's simply because after such a strong year of Doctor Who and 660 00:28:03.420 --> 00:28:06.900 such strong monsters, and I even really like this redesign of the 661 00:28:06.900 --> 00:28:07.500 cybermen. 662 00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:10.920 I'm just a bit baffled by the poor quality of the vogan masks. 663 00:28:11.700 --> 00:28:15.240 Yeah, Shepard just looks like he looks crazy. 664 00:28:15.299 --> 00:28:17.700 He looks like he's got a bucket on his head. 665 00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:18.240 Yeah, yeah. 666 00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:18.960 It's absurd. 667 00:28:19.019 --> 00:28:23.099 That being said, Roger Murray Leach's work on Arc in Space and 668 00:28:23.099 --> 00:28:25.619 Santari. is a designer. 669 00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:28.680 I just want to be the voice for all designers who have been let 670 00:28:28.680 --> 00:28:29.519 down by production. 671 00:28:29.579 --> 00:28:32.279 It's, you know, all we do is the drawings. 672 00:28:32.339 --> 00:28:33.059 That's true. 673 00:28:33.059 --> 00:28:33.779 That's true. 674 00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:39.059 Okay, in that case, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, whoever 675 00:28:39.059 --> 00:28:41.940 made the masks for the Vogans. 676 00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:44.640 I don't know if there wasn't time to get them measured properly or 677 00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:44.880 what. 678 00:28:44.940 --> 00:28:47.160 Of course, you know, Davros's mask looks better. 679 00:28:47.220 --> 00:28:49.019 Davros's mask was made a month after this. 680 00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:50.279 So who knows? 681 00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:52.500 I have 3 candidates. 682 00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:53.400 Do you know what I mean? 683 00:28:53.460 --> 00:28:56.640 Because I thought I would take a leaf out of Todd's book and just 684 00:28:56.640 --> 00:28:59.099 every 2nd thing that appeared on screen. 685 00:28:59.160 --> 00:29:01.200 I go, Jenny Laird, Jenny for you. 686 00:29:01.259 --> 00:29:04.019 But I do think... 687 00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:06.180 I've been very sorry about that. 688 00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:09.960 It must be something I like about this season. 689 00:29:10.019 --> 00:29:14.460 But it is something that I've mentioned before, and it was a 690 00:29:14.460 --> 00:29:17.099 surprise to me because it had never occurred to me before watching 691 00:29:17.099 --> 00:29:19.380 it this time, and it is Noah. 692 00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:22.980 It's Kenton's performance as Noah in Ark in space. 693 00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:27.180 I think it's badly pitched, and I think it risks ruining the story 694 00:29:27.180 --> 00:29:30.839 and it's just a testament to how strong everything else is that 695 00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:31.980 means that it doesn't. 696 00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:35.160 I mean, the other thing is something that I've gone on and on 697 00:29:35.160 --> 00:29:40.140 about, and it is the 3 speaking roles for women in an entire 698 00:29:40.140 --> 00:29:42.720 season, apart from Liz Sladen. 699 00:29:42.779 --> 00:29:44.519 Doctor Who didn't used to do that. 700 00:29:44.579 --> 00:29:45.720 Do you know what I mean? 701 00:29:45.779 --> 00:29:49.140 Even in the Pertry era, there would normally be the other woman 702 00:29:49.140 --> 00:29:49.740 character. 703 00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:54.240 This is worse, I think, for representations of women than we've 704 00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:55.019 had for a while. 705 00:29:55.079 --> 00:29:57.599 And unfortunately, we're gonna, we're going to see that in a few 706 00:29:57.599 --> 00:29:59.940 stories over the next couple of years as well. 707 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:00.839 Yeah. 708 00:30:00.900 --> 00:30:01.619 Yeah, terrible. 709 00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:05.160 There is one story coming up where there's no women on screen. 710 00:30:05.220 --> 00:30:05.940 Yeah. 711 00:30:05.940 --> 00:30:09.539 So it is going to going to Kenton Moore. 712 00:30:09.599 --> 00:30:11.579 So he should expect that in the post. 713 00:30:12.299 --> 00:30:14.460 It's terribly hot. 714 00:30:14.700 --> 00:30:17.940 You're very right about Kenton Moore. 715 00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:23.160 I have to also nominate the giant clans from Genesis of the 716 00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:23.579 Dialect. 717 00:30:23.700 --> 00:30:25.380 So we call them Magna Pylorus. 718 00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:26.099 Whatever. 719 00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:29.880 My award is going to Sarah's hat from Robot. 720 00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:32.339 I can't stand it. 721 00:30:32.460 --> 00:30:33.599 Do you know where it's coming from? 722 00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:34.619 I don't care. 723 00:30:35.160 --> 00:30:40.619 Have another look at the Robert Redford. and Mia Farrer version of 724 00:30:40.619 --> 00:30:44.039 Gatsby had been out the year before and the Gatsby look was very 725 00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:45.599 much in vogue. 726 00:30:45.660 --> 00:30:48.900 Daniel Milker, we could ask for more references, but it's actually 727 00:30:48.900 --> 00:30:50.039 a reference to me. 728 00:30:50.039 --> 00:30:52.859 Oh, look and the whole, the colottes and the bill bottoms. 729 00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:54.059 I think she looks gorgeous in that. 730 00:30:54.059 --> 00:30:55.980 I have to reply. 731 00:30:56.039 --> 00:30:57.480 Yeah, I love that little... 732 00:30:57.539 --> 00:30:59.640 I didn't find the rest of the outfit. just the hat. 733 00:30:59.700 --> 00:31:02.940 I have to say that I look like around pumpkin. 734 00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:06.779 I have to say, though, once you've seen carriage on in a flapping 735 00:31:06.779 --> 00:31:08.400 white fedora running across a weir. 736 00:31:08.519 --> 00:31:11.579 You've reached peak hat as far as I'm concerned. 737 00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:14.400 Richard, what's your journey there? 738 00:31:14.460 --> 00:31:16.740 It's a difficult one because there are actually so few, but my 739 00:31:16.740 --> 00:31:21.299 Jenny Laird award has this year has to go to drum roll, Terrence 740 00:31:21.299 --> 00:31:21.839 Dix. 741 00:31:22.500 --> 00:31:25.799 And it does, and I thought about this long and hard, and I just 742 00:31:25.799 --> 00:31:28.500 thought to continue the metaphor. 743 00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:32.400 I've just thought Mr. Dix has kind of reached his his zenith and 744 00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:36.119 had his chance at his swan song and shown us all the best stuff he 745 00:31:36.119 --> 00:31:38.279 could do, and it just isn't good enough. 746 00:31:38.339 --> 00:31:40.259 And I love him as an author. 747 00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:41.579 He got me reading as a small child. 748 00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:44.339 I was reading before, but I read every damn target novel that came 749 00:31:44.339 --> 00:31:44.700 out. 750 00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:47.519 But you look at robot and look at the structure and it's actually 751 00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:48.059 the script. 752 00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:52.619 Okay, you can talk about the way characters all go, it's Mr. Dix 753 00:31:52.619 --> 00:31:53.160 in that, really. 754 00:31:53.220 --> 00:31:57.960 And just comparing that to the rest of the season, the contrast is 755 00:31:57.960 --> 00:31:58.380 too high. 756 00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:00.720 Pics of the week, gentlemen. 757 00:32:00.779 --> 00:32:03.119 And I think Todd and Nathan, you've got one you'd like to 758 00:32:03.119 --> 00:32:03.359 discuss. 759 00:32:03.420 --> 00:32:05.039 No, no, we have one. 760 00:32:05.099 --> 00:32:11.640 We do have a pick of the week. and Richard, I think, will be quite 761 00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:12.240 familiar with this. 762 00:32:12.299 --> 00:32:19.619 In, I think 1978, they released Genesis of the Daleks is an LP 763 00:32:19.619 --> 00:32:21.000 like as an actual album. 764 00:32:21.059 --> 00:32:25.859 And then they rereleased it in the 80s as a cassette, and it's now 765 00:32:25.859 --> 00:32:29.099 available from Audible as an audiobook, and it's a 60 minute 766 00:32:29.099 --> 00:32:30.299 version of Genesis. 767 00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:30.960 Do you remember this? 768 00:32:31.019 --> 00:32:33.180 The clams cut out. with the clams cut out. 769 00:32:33.299 --> 00:32:36.119 It's got Tom Baker's linking narration and all of that sort of 770 00:32:36.119 --> 00:32:36.299 thing. 771 00:32:36.359 --> 00:32:37.619 I have it somewhere, yeah. 772 00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:41.039 Every time I watch Genesis of the Daleks, I can remember which 773 00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:45.000 bits were on that audio, because I just listened to it over and 774 00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:48.720 over again, like I had the record and then I think I recorded it 775 00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:53.039 onto, you know, a wax cylinder or whatever we had in those days 776 00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:57.720 and then, you know, to a, then to a cartridge, and then to a mini 777 00:32:57.720 --> 00:32:58.859 disc, and then to an MP3. 778 00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:01.859 But I listened to it over and over again, and so certain music 779 00:33:01.859 --> 00:33:06.720 cues are terribly familiar to me, and like, that's why, you know 780 00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:09.539 there's all these lines of dialogue that I can actually say with 781 00:33:09.539 --> 00:33:13.859 the same intonation as the actors say it, you know, it was a huge 782 00:33:13.859 --> 00:33:17.339 thing before any, you know, home video had been thought of. 783 00:33:17.460 --> 00:33:22.799 Genesis of the Daleks was like the one TV show episode of Doctor 784 00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:24.539 Who that I actually owned. 785 00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:28.559 A friend of the podcast, so Simon Moore actually remembers it very 786 00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:29.039 fondly. 787 00:33:29.099 --> 00:33:31.740 You know, he said he'd have our heads on a platter. 788 00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:33.240 We didn't mention that. 789 00:33:33.240 --> 00:33:36.420 But I checked on the pescatons. 790 00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:38.579 No, I think it actually predates. 791 00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:40.019 I don't like the does, yes. 792 00:33:40.140 --> 00:33:43.680 Pescatons must have been released earlier because Liz Slayton was 793 00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:45.119 gone from Doctor Who by 1978. 794 00:33:45.299 --> 00:33:48.420 Pescaton's was produced between season 13 and 14. 795 00:33:48.539 --> 00:33:52.740 Okay, it was the 1st Doctor Who story that I actually owned in 796 00:33:52.740 --> 00:33:56.940 that sort of very real sense, and I've got a very soft spot for it 797 00:33:56.940 --> 00:33:58.500 and you can get it on Audible. 798 00:33:58.559 --> 00:34:00.539 Excellent, very exciting. 799 00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:03.900 Well, I'm going along with you, but I will mention it, there is a 800 00:34:03.900 --> 00:34:09.539 Bernice Summerfield audio, which does contain robot monsters from 801 00:34:09.539 --> 00:34:10.619 robot. 802 00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:11.099 Oh, yes. 803 00:34:11.159 --> 00:34:12.360 I can't remember what the name of it is. 804 00:34:12.420 --> 00:34:13.019 I can. 805 00:34:13.079 --> 00:34:14.460 The relics of jigsaw. 806 00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:15.420 Okay, I recommend that. 807 00:34:15.539 --> 00:34:16.559 Really? 808 00:34:16.619 --> 00:34:17.039 Yes. 809 00:34:17.099 --> 00:34:19.260 So it's got K1 robots in it? 810 00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:19.920 Yep, yep, yep. 811 00:34:19.980 --> 00:34:21.300 Multiple. numeral. 812 00:34:21.420 --> 00:34:23.880 Well, they were designed to be Moonex, you know, to be other 813 00:34:23.880 --> 00:34:25.380 planetary explorers and minors. 814 00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:25.679 Is it? 815 00:34:25.739 --> 00:34:27.659 Is it Michael Kergariff playing? 816 00:34:27.719 --> 00:34:28.440 Yes, yeah. 817 00:34:28.500 --> 00:34:30.300 Do you know where the title comes from? 818 00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:31.500 The relics of jagsaw? 819 00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:32.219 No, no. 820 00:34:32.340 --> 00:34:35.280 In, I believe, 1977. 821 00:34:35.460 --> 00:34:37.380 There were 3 issues. 822 00:34:37.380 --> 00:34:40.980 Yeah, there were these enemies of Doctor Who jigsaw puzzles. 823 00:34:41.039 --> 00:34:45.659 Yes, by Palatoy or Toltoy out in Australia and... 824 00:34:45.659 --> 00:34:47.460 I think it was Waddington's in the UK. 825 00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:48.300 Was it Lewis Marks? 826 00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:49.440 Waddington's, you're right. 827 00:34:49.500 --> 00:34:54.420 And I did used to have one of them, which I had the kraal one with 828 00:34:54.420 --> 00:34:56.099 the kraals from the Android invasion. 829 00:34:56.159 --> 00:34:57.900 Memorable enemies of the doctor. 830 00:34:57.960 --> 00:35:01.860 But one of them had the giant robot, but it had this whole group 831 00:35:01.860 --> 00:35:02.460 of them. 832 00:35:02.699 --> 00:35:05.940 Marching over the planet surface, yeah. 833 00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:08.039 So the relics of jigsaw. 834 00:35:08.039 --> 00:35:10.679 The relics of jigsaw. 835 00:35:10.739 --> 00:35:13.079 Brilliant. isn't in joke tobac. 836 00:35:13.139 --> 00:35:14.519 Joy. 837 00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:16.500 Pixel. 838 00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:18.059 I have two, to be greedy. 839 00:35:18.179 --> 00:35:21.840 First one is obviously, and everyone will just collectively inhale 840 00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:22.320 deeply. 841 00:35:22.380 --> 00:35:23.699 Look at your expectant faces. 842 00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:26.460 The very 1st doctor who wants to book. 843 00:35:26.519 --> 00:35:28.739 It was just called Productal Monster book that came out the same 844 00:35:28.739 --> 00:35:31.500 year just to address the balance because Mr. Dix did write this. 845 00:35:31.559 --> 00:35:32.579 It's Joyous. 846 00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:36.360 In those days, if you can imagine, listener, if you weren't around 847 00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:40.199 when we were kids, there weren't any photographic references 848 00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:42.239 letter, like, you just didn't get to see anything. 849 00:35:42.300 --> 00:35:45.719 So even though this was what we would now call an A4 format, and 850 00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:48.539 it was black and white, although it had a lovely colour pullout 851 00:35:48.539 --> 00:35:52.139 poster by Chris Achilles, of gorgeous things drawn, not photos. 852 00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:55.500 It just had all great, so many great monsters, including 853 00:35:55.500 --> 00:35:57.420 Sensorites, the 1st time we ever saw them. 854 00:35:57.480 --> 00:35:59.099 And Zabi, what are these? 855 00:35:59.159 --> 00:35:59.699 Oh, that's right. 856 00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:00.420 We've read the book. 857 00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:02.340 And it's a really great little thing. 858 00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:05.340 It talks about his young old face and shock of white hair who 859 00:36:05.340 --> 00:36:09.239 magically dissolves into Tom with his teeth and curls. 860 00:36:09.239 --> 00:36:12.179 Didn't I tell you that that was my 1st experience of Doctor Who 861 00:36:12.179 --> 00:36:12.539 was that? 862 00:36:12.599 --> 00:36:13.980 Was that Doctor Who? 863 00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:16.679 It might have been the 2nd edition, but my friend... 864 00:36:16.679 --> 00:36:18.719 The 2nd one was smaller and cute A5. 865 00:36:18.900 --> 00:36:21.239 I have it if any of the listeners would like me to bring it over. 866 00:36:21.300 --> 00:36:23.159 I have my original copy. 867 00:36:23.219 --> 00:36:24.179 I will bring it next time. 868 00:36:24.300 --> 00:36:27.840 I also really love, and just because Ian Marta is probably my pick 869 00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:28.500 of the season. 870 00:36:28.559 --> 00:36:30.780 He did a target. it wasn't Target, was it? 871 00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:31.320 Yeah, it was. 872 00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:32.579 It was one of the last target novels. 873 00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:34.320 There were 2 that came out of companion. 874 00:36:34.380 --> 00:36:36.539 It was called The Companions of Doctor Who series. 875 00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:38.940 The other one, I won't mention, it's Turlow, something or 876 00:36:38.940 --> 00:36:39.179 another. 877 00:36:40.500 --> 00:36:42.000 That's it. 878 00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:42.659 Shudder. 879 00:36:42.719 --> 00:36:43.559 The whole room just shook. 880 00:36:43.619 --> 00:36:46.619 However, if you want the, if you want another, if you want another 881 00:36:46.619 --> 00:36:48.179 take on just how good that can be. 882 00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:51.420 Harry Sullivan's War, written by Ian Marty, just shows you what a 883 00:36:51.420 --> 00:36:53.880 great, you know, gung ho. 884 00:36:53.940 --> 00:36:56.880 It's very bulldog drum and for meat meets Bond. 885 00:36:56.940 --> 00:36:58.079 It's a terrific read. 886 00:36:58.139 --> 00:36:59.460 And again, if any listeners want. 887 00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:01.739 I'll read it out for you and record it. 888 00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:03.900 It's only 300 something pages. 889 00:37:03.960 --> 00:37:05.340 It's very thick and it's really good. 890 00:37:05.460 --> 00:37:12.960 And and Mona wrote 9 Doctor Who novelisations, including... 891 00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:14.280 Both of which are really worth reading. 892 00:37:14.340 --> 00:37:16.679 And he's extremely good. 893 00:37:16.739 --> 00:37:18.480 Have you read Enemy of the World? 894 00:37:18.539 --> 00:37:20.760 I have, but you know why it's not good? 895 00:37:20.820 --> 00:37:22.920 Ian Marty's stuff was cut. 896 00:37:22.980 --> 00:37:27.000 It went for too long and they cut it and whoever was within one of 897 00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:30.300 the editors rewrote whole parts of it. and it's so sad that there 898 00:37:30.300 --> 00:37:32.820 are parts of that novel that make no sense and only now we know 899 00:37:32.820 --> 00:37:34.440 why because the bloody target. 900 00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:37.079 Oh, editor said, oh, no kids are going to buy this. 901 00:37:37.139 --> 00:37:37.739 It's too long. 902 00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:39.239 I just assuming it was Kerry Packard. 903 00:37:39.300 --> 00:37:40.139 They're not going to buy this. 904 00:37:40.199 --> 00:37:40.619 It too long. 905 00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:43.260 The Rupert Murdoch's of their age just said, no, cut it down. 906 00:37:43.320 --> 00:37:45.179 Ian was really upset about that. 907 00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:47.340 He wrote the rescue as well, which you can get. 908 00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:48.480 Yeah, which is actually cool. 909 00:37:48.539 --> 00:37:49.800 That was his last one. 910 00:37:49.860 --> 00:37:54.000 It was published posthumously. read by Maureen O'Brien, I think 911 00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:54.539 the audiobook. 912 00:37:54.599 --> 00:37:57.539 If you can hunt down an Ian Martyr target book. 913 00:37:57.599 --> 00:37:58.139 Yeah. 914 00:37:58.139 --> 00:37:58.980 In the office. 915 00:37:59.039 --> 00:37:59.820 Really worth it. 916 00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:01.199 Love his arc and space. 917 00:38:01.260 --> 00:38:02.039 Earth shocks great. 918 00:38:02.099 --> 00:38:03.480 But the book. 919 00:38:04.260 --> 00:38:06.420 Let's make that quite clear. 920 00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:08.940 My pick is also a big finish. 921 00:38:09.239 --> 00:38:13.920 And it is the aforementioned I Davros series. 922 00:38:13.980 --> 00:38:15.000 Oh, yes. 923 00:38:15.059 --> 00:38:19.619 Four of them briefly features one of the actors who played Dav 924 00:38:19.619 --> 00:38:22.500 Ross, I'm not going to say which, because there have been 925 00:38:22.500 --> 00:38:22.860 several. 926 00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:26.280 Jenny Land. could be anyone under that mask, couldn't it? 927 00:38:26.340 --> 00:38:30.719 But also, as young Davros, it features Rory Jennings, more 928 00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:35.159 familiar to Doctor Who fans as Tommy from The Idiot's Lantern. as 929 00:38:35.159 --> 00:38:35.880 a young De Ross. 930 00:38:35.940 --> 00:38:39.780 It features Peter Miles in the role of Nider, and it shows you how 931 00:38:39.780 --> 00:38:43.260 Davros and Nider met, how Davros's experiment started. 932 00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:46.199 It actually, it goes right back. 933 00:38:46.260 --> 00:38:49.800 It goes right back to parallel with the gunslingers, and Nider was 934 00:38:49.800 --> 00:38:52.980 actually working the bar. in the hoop skirts and... 935 00:38:52.980 --> 00:38:55.440 I mean, all of Davros wielding. 936 00:38:55.500 --> 00:38:58.500 All of Big Finisher's stories with Davros have been good because 937 00:38:58.500 --> 00:39:01.139 they've been very sensible to do Dalek stories with Davros and 938 00:39:01.139 --> 00:39:02.340 Dalek stories without Davros. 939 00:39:02.579 --> 00:39:09.000 But this is a very effective and very sympathetic as much as 940 00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:12.239 possible examination of the character in the character. 941 00:39:12.300 --> 00:39:17.280 I believe you can get it all for $20 or less downloaded. 942 00:39:17.340 --> 00:39:18.599 It's part of their $5 range. 943 00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:19.380 Exactly. 944 00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:21.960 Right now, it's really cheap on the big finish website. 945 00:39:22.019 --> 00:39:23.639 Yeah, we'll include a link for that. 946 00:39:23.699 --> 00:39:25.500 Really worth getting, yeah. 947 00:39:25.559 --> 00:39:28.079 It's also, if you ever bought the Davros box set, which is still 948 00:39:28.079 --> 00:39:30.599 around, which has all the Davros, Doctor Who stories. 949 00:39:30.659 --> 00:39:33.000 It's included the audio of adventures. 950 00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:34.619 I've also included on the back of that as well. 951 00:39:47.579 --> 00:39:51.239 Okay, well, that's all time we have, and then it's the end of 952 00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:55.199 Doctor Who season 12, which means it's time for a bit of 953 00:39:55.199 --> 00:39:56.099 housekeeping. 954 00:39:56.280 --> 00:40:01.500 All season 13, Nathan, Richard, and myself will be commenting on 955 00:40:01.500 --> 00:40:02.099 the stories. 956 00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:04.320 Todd, you will join us again in season 14. 957 00:40:04.500 --> 00:40:07.260 We're shoving him back in that glass octahedron, who'll be 958 00:40:07.260 --> 00:40:08.639 hovering up above our heads. 959 00:40:08.699 --> 00:40:10.980 Now, we mentioned also, you know, about the length of your 960 00:40:10.980 --> 00:40:11.880 trousers. 961 00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:15.000 So story assignations. 962 00:40:15.059 --> 00:40:16.559 Nathan. 963 00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:19.139 You will be covering. 964 00:40:19.199 --> 00:40:20.159 Pyramids of Mars. 965 00:40:20.219 --> 00:40:21.239 Damn. 966 00:40:21.300 --> 00:40:22.559 It's not very good. 967 00:40:23.219 --> 00:40:24.780 And the Android Invasion. 968 00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:26.579 You get Terry Nation. 969 00:40:26.639 --> 00:40:28.320 Surely can. 970 00:40:29.519 --> 00:40:35.820 Meanwhile, I will be enduring Planet of Evil and the brain of 971 00:40:35.820 --> 00:40:36.420 Morbius. 972 00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:41.280 So I've got the sort of cinema classics of the season, which 973 00:40:41.280 --> 00:40:43.320 Richard leaves you with 1st and lasts. 974 00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:47.340 You've got Terror of the Zygons. and Seeds of Doom. 975 00:40:47.400 --> 00:40:50.820 You've got a Canfield, Bergen, Marathon, Henry. 976 00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:55.139 That's the double beef all patties with sauce, isn't it? 977 00:40:55.199 --> 00:40:56.699 I'm not complaining, you listener. 978 00:40:56.760 --> 00:40:58.679 I think you're going to, I think we're going to have fun next 979 00:40:58.679 --> 00:40:58.920 year. 980 00:40:58.980 --> 00:40:59.280 Yeah. 981 00:40:59.280 --> 00:41:00.179 Yeah. 982 00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:03.179 So Richard, you'll be back leading us through the Scottish 983 00:41:03.179 --> 00:41:03.719 Highlands. 984 00:41:03.780 --> 00:41:04.559 I will. 985 00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:08.219 I've already got my fetch and ensemble together. 986 00:41:08.280 --> 00:41:08.760 Do you like it? 987 00:41:08.820 --> 00:41:12.300 Yeah, we'll be we'll be cracking the shortbread for that one 988 00:41:12.300 --> 00:41:12.719 listen. 989 00:41:12.780 --> 00:41:15.780 We'll run we'll run you up a caver next week. 990 00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:18.119 I think we've just defended every Scottish listener. 991 00:41:18.119 --> 00:41:18.659 Lost them all. 992 00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:20.760 Sorry, Blaine. 993 00:41:20.820 --> 00:41:21.360 Sorry, Shaz. 994 00:41:21.420 --> 00:41:24.539 And until then, thank you very much for listening. 995 00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:26.940 Find us online, flight through entirety.com, flight through 996 00:41:26.940 --> 00:41:30.179 entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on Twitter. 997 00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:31.739 Is it true you can leave a review? 998 00:41:31.800 --> 00:41:32.880 I've heard I have. 999 00:41:32.940 --> 00:41:33.840 I have heard that. 1000 00:41:33.900 --> 00:41:35.340 Yeah, I'm not sure, though. 1001 00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:36.239 How would you do that? 1002 00:41:36.300 --> 00:41:37.139 I'm playing. 1003 00:41:37.139 --> 00:41:40.559 Please do it. to another one of these. 1004 00:41:40.619 --> 00:41:42.059 I reckon by now. 1005 00:41:42.119 --> 00:41:44.159 You know, we've been releasing this in week's time. 1006 00:41:44.219 --> 00:41:46.199 I reckon we'll have 50 to 100 reviews by now. 1007 00:41:46.260 --> 00:41:46.800 What a bet. 1008 00:41:46.860 --> 00:41:47.820 Really? 1009 00:41:47.820 --> 00:41:51.599 out of your system. my mum to do one. 1010 00:41:51.659 --> 00:41:53.400 Yes, Mr. Bealby. 1011 00:41:53.460 --> 00:41:56.099 Thank you very much, all of you for listening and good night. 1012 00:41:56.159 --> 00:41:56.880 Good night. 1013 00:41:56.940 --> 00:41:58.139 Thank you for your endurance. 1014 00:41:58.260 --> 00:41:59.579 Bye, Brigg. 1015 00:41:59.639 --> 00:42:00.000 Bye, Harry. 1016 00:42:03.059 --> 00:42:06.480 That was Flight Through Entirety with Todd Bealby, Nathan Bufferly 1017 00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:07.980 Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone. 1018 00:42:08.039 --> 00:42:12.659 This episode, a sociopathic child, was recorded on Sunday, June 1019 00:42:12.659 --> 00:42:13.380 14th. 1020 00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:16.679 The next episode will be released on July 26th. 1021 00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:20.639 If you're after one of the biggest bangs in history, don't forget 1022 00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:22.739 Bondfinger starts August first. 1023 00:42:26.519 --> 00:42:30.300 I may like re like it when I watch it in context. 1024 00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:31.320 No, you'll find it. 1025 00:42:31.619 --> 00:42:31.920 Where is it? 1026 00:42:31.980 --> 00:42:32.460 Where is it? 1027 00:42:32.820 --> 00:42:34.679 Sorry, me. 1028 00:42:34.739 --> 00:42:37.440 You're just stereotyping now, Richard. 1029 00:42:37.619 --> 00:42:40.019 I'm a very complex person.