WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:12:38 1 00:00:28.620 --> 00:00:40.020 Hello, and welcome back to the not quite new anymore, but still weekly flight through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast to discover the glitter gun before adequate hair care. 2 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:40.799 I'm Brendan. 3 00:00:40.859 --> 00:00:41.820 I'm Nathan. 4 00:00:41.880 --> 00:00:43.799 I'm a nose cone full of glitter dust. 5 00:00:43.859 --> 00:00:46.320 And can anyone hear me? 6 00:00:46.979 --> 00:00:49.320 You're Michael Wisher. 7 00:00:50.280 --> 00:01:00.659 Oh, we're back on Space Station Nerva, now Nerva Beacon, and also coming back after a six-year absence from the show are the Cybermen. 8 00:01:00.719 --> 00:01:02.399 Awesome revenge. 9 00:01:16.019 --> 00:01:18.659 I have no idea what that voice was. 10 00:01:18.719 --> 00:01:19.379 Who's doing this one? 11 00:01:20.099 --> 00:01:21.959 This is my one. 12 00:01:22.019 --> 00:01:27.719 Like spoiler alert, I think this is the weakest story of the season, and that's a season that contains robot. 13 00:01:27.780 --> 00:01:36.900 So, um, but it's not all bad, and I do think it has some things carry blind. 14 00:01:36.959 --> 00:01:37.620 Yes, exactly. 15 00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:41.280 So Carrie Blighton for a start. the music is absolutely superb. 16 00:01:41.340 --> 00:01:57.239 Yes, the last music ever from Kerry Blyton and the 1st Doctor Who music from Peter Howell. who augments his score later on because I don't know how, but someone listened to Kerry Blyton score and thought, isn't this a bit similar to that thing with the Daleks in the quarry last year? 17 00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:00.359 in the closing one or 2 episodes of this? 18 00:02:00.420 --> 00:02:02.939 You hear some electronic augmentation? 19 00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:04.379 And that was done by Peter Howell. 20 00:02:04.439 --> 00:02:06.359 Who does the music to Zigons thing? 21 00:02:06.420 --> 00:02:08.159 Jeffrey Bergen. 22 00:02:08.219 --> 00:02:08.460 Okay. 23 00:02:08.520 --> 00:02:09.840 He's my all-time favourite. 24 00:02:09.900 --> 00:02:11.099 He's really good. 25 00:02:11.159 --> 00:02:12.659 Willie lady did bride said revisit. 26 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:14.280 But he also did seats of dirt. 27 00:02:14.340 --> 00:02:17.159 Yes, because Douglas Canfield still hated Dudley. 28 00:02:17.580 --> 00:02:18.479 But we're getting ahead of himself. 29 00:02:18.539 --> 00:02:19.139 Yeah, sorry. 30 00:02:19.199 --> 00:02:21.300 So the horror season 12 continues. 31 00:02:21.360 --> 00:02:30.599 I said before that one of the things that struck me this time rounds through season 12 is not only that it's really great, but that it's really, really horrible. 32 00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:34.919 And why is Sarah going to get in the TARDIS again, ever, ever. 33 00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:37.379 So that starts straight away, doesn't it? 34 00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:40.319 We arrive on, is it Nova Beacon or Space Station Nova? 35 00:02:40.379 --> 00:02:41.520 It's now Nova Beacon. 36 00:02:41.580 --> 00:02:45.659 And Sarah was prescient in the last story when she said, but this isn't the beacon. 37 00:02:45.719 --> 00:02:47.759 Oh, okay, but it wasn't the beacon. 38 00:02:47.879 --> 00:02:51.659 Because, of course, they'd recorded this story before Genesis of the Daleks. 39 00:02:51.719 --> 00:03:01.680 So the recording order for this season went robot, the Sontaran experiment, Arc in Space, Revenge of the Cyberman, Genesis of the Daleks, Terror of the Zygons. 40 00:03:01.740 --> 00:03:22.259 Sandov has something about how this would have been better as a lead up to Genesis of the Daleks because it's such a bad anticlimax after Genesis of the Daleks. you know, Genesis Vidalaxy is this sort of virtuoso reinvention of the series, Greatest Monster, whereas this is just like a tiresome retread of the series, most disappointing Dalek substitute. 41 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:23.219 Hands on hips, though. 42 00:03:23.340 --> 00:03:24.659 It's Christopher Robbie. 43 00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:26.580 That's the carcass. 44 00:03:27.300 --> 00:03:31.740 And it's the 1st time we can easily understand what the cybermen are saying. 45 00:03:31.800 --> 00:03:35.400 Yeah, it's the 1st time they don't digitally augment or do them off camera. 46 00:03:35.460 --> 00:03:36.479 They're actually the actors in the suit. 47 00:03:36.539 --> 00:03:37.560 Yeah, yeah. 48 00:03:37.620 --> 00:03:39.240 They did have a little bit of augmentation on them. 49 00:03:39.300 --> 00:03:41.400 Just they flatten the voices out slightly. 50 00:03:41.400 --> 00:03:43.259 And the voice is terrible. 51 00:03:43.319 --> 00:03:45.060 Oh, but they're so bad. 52 00:03:45.060 --> 00:03:45.780 The voices. 53 00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:52.379 And I especially like that they're slightly they're slightly mid-Atlantic in their in their in their delivery. 54 00:03:52.439 --> 00:03:54.300 Christopher Robbie has a weird accent. 55 00:03:54.360 --> 00:03:56.400 Everyone else is a posh English cyberman. 56 00:03:57.300 --> 00:04:00.900 Can I just say that I actually really like this story? 57 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:02.759 I think it's very underrated. 58 00:04:02.819 --> 00:04:10.080 I do agree that the cybermen are tired and it's actually quite good that they're not actually in the 1st couple of episodes. 59 00:04:10.139 --> 00:04:12.300 I love the vogans to death. 60 00:04:12.360 --> 00:04:16.980 The whole inter politics between the different long-haired and shorthaired movies. 61 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:17.819 No, I love it. 62 00:04:17.879 --> 00:04:18.300 I love it. 63 00:04:18.420 --> 00:04:20.100 I just love it as a kid and I love it now. 64 00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:26.100 I love all the tunnel work with Sarah and Harry and those little trollies going along. not have thick ankles. 65 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:28.680 Solid goals, stethoscope. 66 00:04:28.740 --> 00:04:30.420 That's such a funny line. 67 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:40.500 I just enjoy that. aspect of this entire story. and yes, it is flawed and there are, there are problems with the cybermen who are really not, but there's things ever. 68 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:42.240 I don't mind Christopher Robbie. 69 00:04:42.300 --> 00:04:45.540 Have we had wetsuit fetishistic spots yet? 70 00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:48.720 Christopher Robbie's bum with his hands on his tips from the back. pretty good. 71 00:04:48.779 --> 00:04:49.740 I agree. 72 00:04:51.480 --> 00:04:54.660 I just remember that from the what you're saying. 73 00:04:54.720 --> 00:05:04.199 But, you know, when the Simon do give the doctor that his little shoulder massage. rope does that to the doctor. 74 00:05:04.259 --> 00:05:05.100 Zigo. 75 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:10.560 There has been a theory advance that Time Lord Shoulders are actually particularly vulnerable. 76 00:05:10.620 --> 00:05:13.560 The thing is, Tom's reaction is priceless. 77 00:05:13.620 --> 00:05:15.600 The look on his face is, are you really doing okay? 78 00:05:15.660 --> 00:05:17.519 Is that what we're doing? 79 00:05:17.579 --> 00:05:20.939 doing the shoulder master, are we, Christopher? 80 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:24.180 He doesn't look threatened or in pained at all. 81 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:26.519 He's just like, 0 God, can we get through this scene? 82 00:05:26.579 --> 00:05:28.259 Can I go back to the builder's yard actually? 83 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:29.519 We don't know. 84 00:05:29.579 --> 00:05:32.819 We don't know the internal physiognomy, the neurological. 85 00:05:32.939 --> 00:05:35.699 That could be that could be the time-lord sensitive spot. 86 00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:37.560 Backbone. 87 00:05:37.560 --> 00:05:38.939 Back to what you're saying. 88 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:42.360 Paul Sarah Jane Smith, who gets attacked by the cyber mat and has to defend it off with him. 89 00:05:42.420 --> 00:05:44.279 Is that the worst thing that's happened to Sarah yet? 90 00:05:44.339 --> 00:05:52.500 Oh, no, she's been tortured by Dr. Joseph Mengler and nearly dropped off a... not bitten by a huge fallicky bitey thing. 91 00:05:52.560 --> 00:05:53.459 It's pretty awful. 92 00:05:53.579 --> 00:05:57.180 But her and the guy who drives before her, just that breathing that... 93 00:05:57.240 --> 00:05:59.160 I actually think the brilliant thing. 94 00:05:59.220 --> 00:06:00.180 Is it CSO? 95 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:01.560 Like, it's front tackle. 96 00:06:01.620 --> 00:06:02.699 Is it really front axle? 97 00:06:02.759 --> 00:06:05.519 back to the moon base, actually. 98 00:06:05.579 --> 00:06:06.420 The same thing they were using. 99 00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:07.439 It says like the Lao. 100 00:06:07.500 --> 00:06:09.899 Wow, and indeed the Green Death. 101 00:06:09.959 --> 00:06:11.459 It looks so good. 102 00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:14.519 Yeah, yeah. it looks it looks great. 103 00:06:14.579 --> 00:06:17.579 So you just have a moment, though. a question for the audience. 104 00:06:17.639 --> 00:06:21.839 If you're able to get the virus out of Sarah by baming down, why don't they just do it with Noah? 105 00:06:22.620 --> 00:06:24.360 Well... 106 00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:26.639 That's big threat gone. 107 00:06:26.699 --> 00:06:28.379 And why aren't they all naked when they beam down? 108 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:29.040 Yeah. 109 00:06:29.100 --> 00:06:29.819 Well... 110 00:06:30.060 --> 00:06:32.220 Well, no, they are wearing organic fibres. 111 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:34.740 So why when the cybermen beamed down? 112 00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:37.259 Are they just not blobby messes of juba? 113 00:06:37.319 --> 00:06:39.420 No, because they're just robots actually. 114 00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:40.379 Yeah, no, it makes no sense. 115 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:43.319 So let's just talk about the plague. 116 00:06:43.379 --> 00:06:43.860 We arrived. 117 00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:44.879 There's been a giant plague. 118 00:06:44.939 --> 00:06:51.180 Sarah and Harry have to wander. have to wander through a big corridor full of corpses. 119 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:52.259 Like a switch off. 120 00:06:52.319 --> 00:06:55.920 Obviously not, which are obviously mannequins. 121 00:06:55.980 --> 00:06:56.579 Did you notice? 122 00:06:56.579 --> 00:07:01.800 They look really bad. the aftermath of the are you being served off as party? 123 00:07:01.860 --> 00:07:03.120 That's right. 124 00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:05.339 Did you notice that it's also everyone else? 125 00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:10.079 There are occasional twitching corpses, and it's everyone else from the series. 126 00:07:10.079 --> 00:07:12.480 It just lies on the ground. 127 00:07:12.540 --> 00:07:14.220 Yeah, yeah, yeah. everyone gets have a go. 128 00:07:14.279 --> 00:07:15.060 Yeah. 129 00:07:15.060 --> 00:07:17.399 And again, that's the horror of season 12. 130 00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:18.480 Do you know what I mean? 131 00:07:18.540 --> 00:07:22.199 Like it's just a little bit too awful for the kiddies at home. 132 00:07:22.259 --> 00:07:24.540 You know, then Sarah gets the plague. 133 00:07:24.600 --> 00:07:25.920 No, Warner gets the plague. 134 00:07:25.980 --> 00:07:26.699 Do you know what I mean? 135 00:07:26.759 --> 00:07:28.740 And then Sarah gets the plague. 136 00:07:28.740 --> 00:07:33.540 And for some reason, Sarah's sitting watching the world's most boring television program. 137 00:07:33.540 --> 00:07:35.939 And leafing through a magazine. 138 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:37.560 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 139 00:07:37.620 --> 00:07:39.899 Yeah, yeah, it's like the reminder room. 140 00:07:40.740 --> 00:07:42.720 Do you know what she's reading? 141 00:07:42.779 --> 00:07:43.920 It's a science fiction mag. 142 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:47.339 Michael Morecock is in it praising the new series of Doctor Who. 143 00:07:47.399 --> 00:07:48.300 Is she really? 144 00:07:48.360 --> 00:07:49.860 Oh, yeah, yeah. 145 00:07:49.920 --> 00:07:51.000 It's an in joke. 146 00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:52.439 Oh, that's pretty good. 147 00:07:52.500 --> 00:07:54.480 Too early for DWB, I guess. 148 00:07:54.540 --> 00:07:57.899 Roland Lee Hunt and William Marlowe. 149 00:07:57.959 --> 00:08:00.060 One of the is Commander Radner? 150 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:05.339 Yes, well, he was Commander Radner, and now he's... 151 00:08:05.339 --> 00:08:07.139 Stevenson, I want to say, yeah. 152 00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:08.339 I like them. 153 00:08:08.459 --> 00:08:09.720 I do too. 154 00:08:09.779 --> 00:08:11.699 They're proper actors, they underplay. 155 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:13.920 I especially like the 2 I see. 156 00:08:14.220 --> 00:08:16.560 Leicester, Leicesterson. 157 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:21.060 Leicesterson, who was... 158 00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:23.160 He was previously maleer in line of evil. 159 00:08:23.220 --> 00:08:24.899 And he plays himself... 160 00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:25.500 Yes, yes. 161 00:08:25.560 --> 00:08:29.819 I was going to say, bomb, that's going to blow up half of this asteroid, and then it just sort of blows up a cat. 162 00:08:29.879 --> 00:08:31.079 No, no, they still explain it. 163 00:08:31.139 --> 00:08:34.500 Yeah, the buckle is the buckle on the front. 164 00:08:34.559 --> 00:08:35.639 So the bomb itself. 165 00:08:35.700 --> 00:08:37.860 Otherwise, it'd just be silly, wouldn't it? 166 00:08:38.519 --> 00:08:46.860 So that's for plague, and it's cured by waving our hands and a bit of rollback and mix and suddenly we're in Wookiehole and we're cured. 167 00:08:46.980 --> 00:08:51.360 And the cure for it is then stolen by Star Trek, the next generation, unnatural selection. 168 00:08:51.419 --> 00:08:52.980 Gosh, that's a terrible episode. 169 00:08:53.039 --> 00:08:54.179 Let us never speak of it again. 170 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:55.919 Yeah, even pure age. 171 00:08:55.980 --> 00:08:56.700 Moving on. 172 00:08:57.419 --> 00:09:02.399 But, you know, it's it's an episode that highlights Diana Maldor, and I can forgive it anything. 173 00:09:02.460 --> 00:09:06.179 Dr. Pulaski, we can physically separate this one and all. 174 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:13.500 Yeah, we can physically separate you from the latex that appears to be making up your outer epidermal layer by just putting you through the transporter. 175 00:09:13.559 --> 00:09:16.500 She plays the satin 5 thrusters in this. 176 00:09:17.100 --> 00:09:20.100 No, in fact, there are no women in this apart from Sarah. 177 00:09:20.159 --> 00:09:22.860 So, it's... 178 00:09:22.860 --> 00:09:23.519 Oh, I don't know. 179 00:09:23.580 --> 00:09:24.299 You can't tell me. 180 00:09:24.419 --> 00:09:25.320 What about some other focus? 181 00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:28.919 Well, in fact, let's move on. 182 00:09:28.980 --> 00:09:29.700 Yes, please. 183 00:09:29.759 --> 00:09:40.200 So the 2nd thing, and the thing that you identified Todd, is one of your favourite things about the story is the planet Vogga, and that's, you know, so we've got the human beings, we've got Vogga, and we'll come to the side. 184 00:09:40.259 --> 00:09:41.700 I want to have a party on Planet Vogel. 185 00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:42.360 What a disco. 186 00:09:42.419 --> 00:09:45.659 So I think that... 187 00:09:45.659 --> 00:09:50.159 Todd and I are not going to agree about the planet Voga because I just think it's terrible. 188 00:09:50.220 --> 00:09:54.659 One of the things is we have an utterly spectacular cast playing the Vogans. 189 00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:58.320 So the three, there's someone called Shepherd, who I can't remember who that is. 190 00:09:58.440 --> 00:09:59.580 Brian Grellis? 191 00:09:59.639 --> 00:10:00.299 Yeah, I know. 192 00:10:00.360 --> 00:10:02.879 I looked him up and he's beating something before, but it wasn't very interesting. 193 00:10:02.940 --> 00:10:12.299 So we get Tyrum, who is played by Kevin Stone, who is just, you know, superb in his previous performances in Doctor Who. 194 00:10:12.360 --> 00:10:14.100 And he's been away as long as the Spider-Man. 195 00:10:14.159 --> 00:10:16.860 Yeah, well, the invasion was the last. 196 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:17.820 Was that nice? 197 00:10:17.820 --> 00:10:18.720 He's great in this. 198 00:10:18.779 --> 00:10:22.019 Yeah, but he's covered in a big latex mask. 199 00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:23.220 So that's what makes it better. 200 00:10:23.279 --> 00:10:33.480 And then you get David Collings, who is just tremendous and he will come back and be pool in Robots of Death and silver in Sapphire. 201 00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:36.600 And Monkey, the voice of Monkey. 202 00:10:36.659 --> 00:10:37.620 The voice of monkey. 203 00:10:37.679 --> 00:10:39.480 And with Miriam Margolis. 204 00:10:39.539 --> 00:10:41.940 And then you get Michael... with a tissue. 205 00:10:41.940 --> 00:10:49.379 And Michael Wishes already had a bit of a go at being every voice on the radio that Warner listens to in episode one. 206 00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:51.360 But now he's here as a character by himself. 207 00:10:51.419 --> 00:10:57.600 And so we actually have 2 factions and this is the thing that I think is really a bit tired. 208 00:10:57.659 --> 00:11:04.500 So you have the conservatives and they all wear dresses and have long girly hair and they're led by time. 209 00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:05.340 The Whigs, aren't they? 210 00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:06.480 If they are the Tories, yeah. 211 00:11:06.539 --> 00:11:08.940 No, the wig's brilliant. 212 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:16.139 So they're conservative and they're isolationist and they don't want, they don't want to attract the side with attention. 213 00:11:16.259 --> 00:11:17.340 We'll have no trouble. 214 00:11:17.399 --> 00:11:18.360 And so that's it. 215 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:20.220 And then you've got Vorus. 216 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:23.460 And I actually think Vorus is quite good and he has a pretty good mask. 217 00:11:23.519 --> 00:11:25.200 I'm very sympathetic to Boris. 218 00:11:25.259 --> 00:11:27.000 Boris is actually the only one that leads the narrative. 219 00:11:27.059 --> 00:11:28.139 This is what I want to say. 220 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:35.100 He is the character who wants to change the economic system, make life better for his people. 221 00:11:35.159 --> 00:11:36.059 Have a few, you know what I mean? 222 00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:37.139 That's right. 223 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:45.659 And he, because he bucks the system and because he, you know, refuses to do whatever the conservative time says, he's the villain, you know what I mean? 224 00:11:45.720 --> 00:11:46.919 And so he's the bad guy. 225 00:11:46.980 --> 00:11:51.419 We all sort of anger at him, you know, he has to be killed at the end and so on. 226 00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:53.399 And I think it's really reactionary. 227 00:11:53.460 --> 00:11:55.679 Like I think that the politics are reactionary. 228 00:11:55.740 --> 00:12:09.659 And I just think those endless scenes of the men in the dresses and like long-haired men in dresses and bold men in trousers, firing guns at each other across the studio are really very boring. 229 00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:12.539 Oh, those little sequences outside the chambers, yes. 230 00:12:12.600 --> 00:12:20.399 Yeah, look, I mean, it's Wookiehole is a great location and all of the stuff shot in the caverns is wonderful and they have speedboats and all sorts of things. 231 00:12:20.460 --> 00:12:21.840 It's really terrific. 232 00:12:21.899 --> 00:12:24.960 That is great, but I don't like the Vogans. 233 00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:27.840 I just don't think they're all that new or interesting. 234 00:12:27.899 --> 00:12:32.039 I think the big problem there is the masks being so immutable. 235 00:12:32.100 --> 00:12:38.039 David Collings one fits quite well, but nobody else's mask fits quite well and it looks like a mask. 236 00:12:38.100 --> 00:12:41.460 It's not like the draconians where you still had so much expression in the faces. 237 00:12:41.580 --> 00:12:46.080 But one character whom we haven't mentioned yet is Kelman. 238 00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:53.220 The civilian, the civilian geologist slash spy slash James Bond memorabilia collector. 239 00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:55.620 Slash mass murder. 240 00:12:55.740 --> 00:13:00.000 So he's killing off everybody in the beacon for Boris. 241 00:13:00.059 --> 00:13:06.600 And he's also working for the Sidemen, but he's working for Vorus to lure the Simon this and it's confusing. 242 00:13:06.659 --> 00:13:07.500 Okay. 243 00:13:07.500 --> 00:13:08.519 And they cyberman? 244 00:13:08.580 --> 00:13:10.259 No, no. let me try and work it out. 245 00:13:10.320 --> 00:13:17.159 The cybermen want him to kill all of the people on the station except for 3 people, so those 3 people can carry their bombs down to Voga. 246 00:13:17.220 --> 00:13:26.039 But what he's really doing is luring the cybermen on the station in order to blow them up in order to blow them up with the sky striker. 247 00:13:26.100 --> 00:13:28.919 I think he's playing each off for his own benefit. 248 00:13:28.919 --> 00:13:32.700 Well, no, no, because the doctor makes it very clear that the sidemen have nothing to offer him. 249 00:13:32.759 --> 00:13:44.039 And so the doctor begins to suspect that Kelman, it doesn't really go anywhere, but he twice asks, you know, when he gets hold of the bomb in episode 3 and he's threatening to blow the sidemen up. 250 00:13:44.100 --> 00:13:47.759 He wants to know what's in it for Calman, what can the sidemen possibly offer Calman? 251 00:13:47.820 --> 00:13:52.139 And it's obvious if there's a planet of gold, what he's really doing it for, is the gold. 252 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:59.460 So, so he is not a very principal character because he kills a whole bunch of people, 48 people. 253 00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:01.200 But it's not Vorus's fault. 254 00:14:01.259 --> 00:14:02.100 Do you know what I mean? 255 00:14:02.159 --> 00:14:06.000 Vorus isn't paying him to pay him to kill everyone. 256 00:14:06.059 --> 00:14:08.759 He's paying him to get the sidemen on board. 257 00:14:08.820 --> 00:14:09.960 I think that's what's happening. 258 00:14:10.019 --> 00:14:10.740 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 259 00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:13.860 Does Boris do anything in this that we would actually find objectionable? 260 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:20.519 He, like, he doesn't give the doctor his full 5 minutes or something at the end, you know, like death in other words, yeah. 261 00:14:20.580 --> 00:14:24.240 But I don't know why he's the villain. you know what I mean? 262 00:14:24.299 --> 00:14:25.259 It's a very good point. 263 00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:33.779 I think a lot of these problems boil down to Jerry Davis being a very old-fashioned writer because they had terrible problems with the script behind the scenes. 264 00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:36.600 This is the casino in space story. 265 00:14:36.659 --> 00:14:40.620 Yeah, it was going to be a casino in space and then I don't think it was Hinchley for Holmes. 266 00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:47.100 I think it was someone higher up at the BBC objected to the idea of gambling appearing on the program, and that would, again, rear its head. 267 00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:54.480 That would again rear its head about 5 years later, it was City of Death, which was originally to be based around the casino as well. 268 00:14:54.539 --> 00:14:56.399 A gambling time, it was going to be called. 269 00:14:56.460 --> 00:14:57.360 That's right, too. 270 00:14:57.480 --> 00:15:19.980 Bob Holmes and Phil Peterson, I've had both said later on that Jerry Davis's characterisation was very thin on the ground and they did also petition him to have more female characters, but the relationship became so not exactly adversarial or acrimonious, but difficult that eventually they just kind of went, okay, this is what he's given us. 271 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:26.340 We don't have much time, we'll rework it as much as we humanly can in the time period we've got. 272 00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:33.360 Because remember, even though this is the last story of the broadcast season, It was actually the 3rd story in the production block. 273 00:15:33.419 --> 00:15:38.820 They'd already had massive problems with the arc in space, which Robert Holmes had to rewrite from the start. 274 00:15:38.940 --> 00:15:41.879 This is on rewrite. a softer rewrite. 275 00:15:41.940 --> 00:15:43.019 This is a softer rewrite. 276 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:45.720 It essentially follows Jerry Davis's plot. 277 00:15:47.340 --> 00:15:52.379 The words, if you like, are not necessarily his. 278 00:15:52.500 --> 00:15:55.080 They've tried to flesh out the plot a bit more. 279 00:15:55.139 --> 00:16:04.740 And I think that's possibly why the 2 factions of vogans don't really work because it's like, let's introduce enough detail to make it clear that there are 2 factions. 280 00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:09.179 Let's not look too closely at the motivations in case it all falls down. 281 00:16:09.299 --> 00:16:12.600 Yeah, okay, well, I mean, there are your points. 282 00:16:12.659 --> 00:16:13.320 I still love them. 283 00:16:13.379 --> 00:16:17.159 I love their use of the time. symbol. 284 00:16:17.220 --> 00:16:23.340 Kelman, of course, doesn't get to go on location, so he gets blown up at the end of episode three. 285 00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:25.019 I like to think he escaped in Thunderbird 2. 286 00:16:25.139 --> 00:16:27.600 He's the voice of the 2nd Virgil from Thunderbird. 287 00:16:27.659 --> 00:16:28.259 Oh, I see. 288 00:16:28.259 --> 00:16:37.019 The doctor gets to scream out, Harry, Sullivan isn't... when he tries to open up the bomb and clasp. 289 00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:39.419 No, so can we talk about that? 290 00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:43.500 They get these bombs strapped to them, and they have to walk down to the centre of Volga. 291 00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:46.379 So how does gravity work on Voger, exactly. 292 00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:47.340 Do you know what I mean? 293 00:16:47.399 --> 00:16:50.159 Like, we see a cross-section of Voga. 294 00:16:50.220 --> 00:16:55.259 They're walking down into the middle of the asteroid. 295 00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:59.639 Why aren't they falling down a shaft into the middle of the asteroid? 296 00:16:59.700 --> 00:17:00.539 Do you know what I mean? 297 00:17:00.779 --> 00:17:01.320 With the air coming? 298 00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:02.940 Yeah, no, it's crazy. 299 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:04.079 Crazy, crazy, crazy. 300 00:17:04.140 --> 00:17:06.900 I hate it when Doctor Who isn't scientifically accurate. 301 00:17:07.019 --> 00:17:08.460 It's one of the worst... 302 00:17:08.460 --> 00:17:11.460 You know, they did research that Hinchcliffe actually commissioned someone... 303 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:13.920 Hinchcliffe actually commissioned someone to go and... 304 00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:19.740 To go to an asteroid to go and check on how compatible life on an asteroid would be for human life. 305 00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:20.759 I think they probably did. 306 00:17:20.819 --> 00:17:22.259 When did you get the fire that away? 307 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:23.279 Who knows? 308 00:17:23.339 --> 00:17:24.240 Look, it's in the nose. 309 00:17:24.299 --> 00:17:31.380 This is just one of those stories that I'd enjoy watching and I don't think about all of those scientifically. 310 00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:32.819 They wash over me. 311 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:34.859 It could be a Trouton story, couldn't it, Tom? 312 00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:37.619 It is a bit wheeling spacish, actually, isn't it? 313 00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:39.480 you know, it's it's good fun. 314 00:17:39.539 --> 00:17:41.700 I still think it's under undervalued. 315 00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:43.619 I've always enjoyed our ropey part. 316 00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:47.039 It is very strange in the context of the season, though, isn't it? 317 00:17:47.099 --> 00:17:58.019 Where everything is really grim and gruesome and kind of horrifying, and this is initially looking like it's going to be that, but it just ends up being a sort of fairly crappy 60 star runaround. 318 00:17:58.079 --> 00:17:58.920 Do you know what I mean? 319 00:17:58.980 --> 00:18:00.119 Not that there's anything wrong with it. 320 00:18:00.180 --> 00:18:00.839 No, no, no. 321 00:18:00.900 --> 00:18:05.220 It's a whole 60s full of crappy 60s style run around. 322 00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:23.819 And for about 20 minutes in the middle, you have this very Leslie Nielsen police squad naked gun style shootout to members of the 2 factions hiding behind these stalagmites about 5 feet away from each other. just popping up on a pew, pew, pew, pew. 323 00:18:24.539 --> 00:18:27.480 And people then run between... 324 00:18:27.539 --> 00:18:30.660 It's so it, but it's endearingly ridiculous. 325 00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:32.940 The ending's very rushed. 326 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:41.400 I mean, Simon are pretty sad, really, that they don't detect that it's a huge missile on its way to destroy their spaceship until the very last moment. 327 00:18:41.460 --> 00:18:42.839 And they just sort of sit there. 328 00:18:42.900 --> 00:18:52.440 I mean, if this is the iconic return of a really crappy second rate monster that no one liked very much after 6 whole years, you know, for the 1st time in such a long time. 329 00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:55.440 Like when we 1st see them, they're just sitting in chairs. 330 00:18:55.500 --> 00:19:01.200 Like we get a shot of Simon just sitting in chairs and then we go somewhere else. 331 00:19:01.259 --> 00:19:01.859 Do you know what I mean? 332 00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:05.160 And we already knew that... 333 00:19:05.220 --> 00:19:08.279 But we already knew they were going to be in the story. 334 00:19:08.339 --> 00:19:12.059 We didn't need a sort of shot of Simon to show that they were sort of going to be there. 335 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:17.220 And then, you know, there's lots of sort of stupid cyber plans, which is kind of what we want. 336 00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:20.160 And then they're kind of killed unceremoniously as well. 337 00:19:20.220 --> 00:19:23.640 You know, like it is a bit of a poor outing for them. 338 00:19:23.700 --> 00:19:27.000 It also doesn't help that when the doctor berates them. 339 00:19:27.059 --> 00:19:28.019 You've got no home planet. 340 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:28.980 No influence nothing. 341 00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:33.180 You're just a pathetic bunch of tin soldiers skulking about the galaxy in ancient ancient spaceship. 342 00:19:33.299 --> 00:19:35.819 There's no comeback to that. 343 00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:36.779 No. 344 00:19:36.779 --> 00:19:39.299 There's no then show of force. 345 00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:49.859 It's all right for the doctor to belittle a monster because usually what will then happen is the monster will prove their strength and the audience will go, oh yeah, okay, we even though the doctor is being jokey. 346 00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:51.480 We can be terrified of them here. 347 00:19:51.539 --> 00:19:56.279 But here the cyberman just goes, I'm going to give you another Swedish massage. 348 00:19:57.420 --> 00:20:02.640 When they come back again, do you know what I mean after another six, 7 years? 349 00:20:02.700 --> 00:20:04.380 They actually do have a comeback. 350 00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:08.339 You know, the doctor talks to them and then they threaten to kill Teakon. you know what I mean? 351 00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:11.099 But here also they're just robots. 352 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:17.339 So the idea that they're sort of zombies or that they can convert us or that they're our dark sides or something like that. 353 00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:22.259 They've got a big pile of spare parts in their spaceship from which they can build a new cyber army. 354 00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:25.319 They don't need to assimilate people or whatever it is they do. 355 00:20:25.380 --> 00:20:27.779 They don't need to do cyber conversion or anything like that. 356 00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:31.799 And I just think that makes them very boring. 357 00:20:31.859 --> 00:20:32.460 Yeah. 358 00:20:32.519 --> 00:20:33.779 Yeah, very generic. 359 00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:34.559 Do you know what I mean? 360 00:20:34.619 --> 00:20:36.059 They could be any anything. 361 00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:37.740 Which is a brand cyberman. 362 00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:40.440 I do think that Christopher Robbie's performance is very good. 363 00:20:40.500 --> 00:20:41.460 I do like it. 364 00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:43.440 Nathan is stony faced at this point. 365 00:20:43.500 --> 00:20:47.099 I just remember a cottage undersiege article, which was like the 1st five. 366 00:20:47.099 --> 00:20:50.220 Five worst ever performances in Doctor Who. 367 00:20:50.279 --> 00:20:51.299 I don't think it is. 368 00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:54.359 I think Jenny Laird came within there, obviously. 369 00:20:54.420 --> 00:20:59.700 But Christopher Robbie was one of them, because he struts about with his hands on his hips and stuff, and he's supposed to be. 370 00:20:59.700 --> 00:21:00.779 In his shiny wetsuit. 371 00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:02.160 An emotionless robot. 372 00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:03.420 Shiny wetsuit. 373 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:07.319 Well, you know, it is called Revenge of the Cyberman, so you can hardly blame it for that. 374 00:21:07.380 --> 00:21:09.180 I don't think it's a terrible performance. 375 00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:11.640 Yeah, they don't have emotions, do they? 376 00:21:11.700 --> 00:21:14.099 So it should just be called reaction of the stuff. 377 00:21:15.299 --> 00:21:18.839 David Banks in his wonderful book, Doctor Who. 378 00:21:18.900 --> 00:21:19.980 Doctor Who, Cyberman. 379 00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:23.460 Oh, God, and we haven't even got to how much I hate David Bates and Cyberleader. 380 00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:24.000 Moving on. 381 00:21:24.119 --> 00:21:25.019 I'll agree. 382 00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:30.660 He gives a great account of why at times Cybermen might show emotion. 383 00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:36.420 They're really fed up and they're really tired and they just need a hug. 384 00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:39.779 No, it's like, it's like, you know what? 385 00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:50.819 An actor whose character's spouse has died will act with grief, but the actor themselves in their real life will not feel that because it's acting. 386 00:21:50.940 --> 00:21:55.980 Cybermen have no emotions, but they constantly recognise that humans have emotions. 387 00:21:56.099 --> 00:22:01.680 So they learn to emulate emotions to get a reaction. 388 00:22:01.740 --> 00:22:06.539 They learn to emulate confidence and arrogance and superiority. child. 389 00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:08.759 Children with sociopaic tendency. 390 00:22:08.819 --> 00:22:09.779 No, no, they actually do. 391 00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:11.579 They will watch their parents. 392 00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:22.140 I have a friend whose whose child has, is actually, is sociopathic by her doctor and as a very young girl, she would sit and watch the television when everyone else is watching Doctor Who. 393 00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:31.799 The child would be watching her mother and her brother's emotional reactions to it, to learn how to emulate it because she didn't have the responses of fear or love. 394 00:22:31.859 --> 00:22:33.119 They walk amongst us. 395 00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:35.400 So yeah, you know, he works. 396 00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:38.460 The cyber leader saying things like, it will be a fantastic spectacle. 397 00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:40.980 Unfortunately, you will not be alive to see it. 398 00:22:45.420 --> 00:22:48.839 If only you had to do a voice treatment for that sound. 399 00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:57.720 But no, you see, that saying that is about instilling terror because he's picked up on the fact that the doctor is sarcastic. 400 00:22:57.779 --> 00:23:02.700 So he decides I'm going, you know, the doctor is being sarcastic to intimidate me. 401 00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:03.960 Of course, I am not intimidated. 402 00:23:04.019 --> 00:23:10.440 I am a cyberman, but the human female will be intimidated by my sarcasm and by my flippancy. 403 00:23:10.500 --> 00:23:14.579 I liked it better when sidemen went on about people's stupider earth brains. 404 00:23:14.700 --> 00:23:16.559 That was much better. 405 00:23:16.619 --> 00:23:21.480 I love the way the doctor and Sarah twist around to watch though they're coming up. 406 00:23:21.539 --> 00:23:22.380 It's very marks proper. 407 00:23:22.859 --> 00:23:24.299 And so Voger coming up on the screen. 408 00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:29.880 Like suddenly Voga is like a toilet roll with craters on it. 409 00:23:29.940 --> 00:23:37.559 They're just revolving around and around in a kind of horrible precursor to the season 4 Blake 7, I think. 410 00:23:37.619 --> 00:23:40.319 Oh, there's nothing wrong with Ash. like it. 411 00:23:40.380 --> 00:23:42.359 It's, it's... 412 00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:47.880 Brendan, for the listener at home. just did a very convincing Travis with a dessert spoon. 413 00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:48.720 They've died. 414 00:23:48.779 --> 00:23:50.220 I was being Madame Cavarian. 415 00:23:50.700 --> 00:23:54.240 So, but that isn't the worst special effect, of course. 416 00:23:54.299 --> 00:24:05.759 The worst special effect is suddenly that Vorus's sky striker has the words United States written on the side because it's just stock footage of the Saturn 5 rocket going up as usual. 417 00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:07.619 We can't win a morgue. 418 00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:08.640 No, I mean, look. 419 00:24:08.700 --> 00:24:12.240 I mean, if we were watching, if we were worried about ropey special effects. 420 00:24:12.299 --> 00:24:16.319 We wouldn't have done 31 episodes of a podcast about Doctor Who, to be honest. 421 00:24:16.440 --> 00:24:19.680 And it's nice to have the TARDIS back at the end of that. 422 00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:23.220 Episode, the brigadiers called him back. 423 00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:24.059 I love blue. 424 00:24:24.059 --> 00:24:25.019 Sarah's reaction. 425 00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:26.519 It turned out it was blue. 426 00:24:26.579 --> 00:24:32.819 I love Sarah's reaction to it because it's the 2nd that the problem gets resolved. 427 00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:40.500 You know, the 2nd that there's no goodbyes or anything, Harry turns up in the trans mat, the TARDIS turns up just instantly that second. 428 00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:45.299 The doctor says we'll go, Sarah's kind of rolling her eyes and going, oh, it's all go, isn't it? 429 00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:53.279 And she gets, then she learns that the brigadier has a crisis and she's, she looks horribly pained, you know. 430 00:24:53.339 --> 00:24:55.920 And there's a sense in which that's kind of nice. 431 00:24:55.980 --> 00:25:06.000 But it does kind of undersell the level of horror that she's experienced over the last, you know, 16 weeks or however long it's been. 432 00:25:06.059 --> 00:25:15.240 Well, I just think, as I was saying a few episodes ago, it underlines her her resilience and her indomitable nature. 433 00:25:15.299 --> 00:25:33.119 When the doctor talks about humanity in Arkin Space and how wonderful and inventive and indomitable they are, it's then up to Harry and Sarah to be the proof of that over the season because in Santaran experiment, we don't have earthborn humans or humans from even remotely in our era. 434 00:25:33.180 --> 00:25:37.380 In Genesis of Dialects, we only have Sarah and Harry as humans. 435 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:44.759 And again, in revenge of the cybermen, they're our modern day humans to relate to this strange alien world. 436 00:25:44.819 --> 00:26:04.200 So their reactions to the horrible things they've been through, not allowing it to make them cynical and horrible themselves, but coming out of it with this view of, you know, we've taken this on, we can do anything, including we can afford to make light of the fact that we're heading into another emergency. 437 00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:08.400 It goes back to that speech and it proves exactly what the doctor was saying. 438 00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:14.579 I just think it makes the characters kind of, it diminishes the characters as real people. 439 00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:19.140 You know, Doctor Who is a show that doesn't show long-term consequences. 440 00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:20.279 Do you know what I mean? 441 00:26:20.339 --> 00:26:29.579 We're off on another jolly adventure, and it's been like that forever, and it shouldn't become a show where we spend a lot of time agonising about the, you know, terrible things that have happened to us. 442 00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:31.559 You know, we should feel like the characters are having fun. 443 00:26:31.619 --> 00:26:35.700 I just felt that this year Sarah has not been having fun. 444 00:26:35.819 --> 00:26:38.279 And I love season 12. 445 00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:46.920 I've really, really enjoyed this and I think, you know, it represents a sudden uptick in quality in the whole show, you know, it's Bob Holmes, it's Tom Baker. 446 00:26:46.980 --> 00:26:54.059 It's my absolute Christmas present as far as Doctor Who's concerned, but I just do have this niggling feeling that there is something wrong with it. 447 00:26:54.180 --> 00:26:57.599 I've thoroughly enjoyed watching this season. 448 00:26:57.660 --> 00:27:04.980 Tom is just amazing and Ian Martin, Elizabeth Slade, and I, Go along with him. 449 00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:10.019 They're just a wonderful team and, you know, it's reflected in the show's ratings. 450 00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:20.160 There's only 2 episodes in this season that place outside the top 30 shows in Britain, never before, and it's going to continue up and up over the next 2 years. 451 00:27:20.220 --> 00:27:24.960 And let's remember that's not just because there's a new doctor because this has happened 3 times before. 452 00:27:25.019 --> 00:27:30.839 Well, this is the 3rd, but it's a combination of the doctor and the writing and just the chemistry. 453 00:27:30.900 --> 00:27:31.500 And what's going on? 454 00:27:31.619 --> 00:27:32.940 And I think Liz and Ian. 455 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:33.720 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 456 00:27:34.140 --> 00:27:38.700 It's time for our Jenny Laird awards for most puzzling creative choice. 457 00:27:38.880 --> 00:27:42.779 I've intimated this very episode. 458 00:27:43.079 --> 00:27:51.660 My Jenny Led Award would go to Roger Murray Leach or possibly Prue Handley or Cecil Hay Arthur. 459 00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:58.920 I'm not sure exactly who was responsible, but they are respectively the designer, costume designer, and makeup designer of Revenge of the Cybermen. 460 00:27:58.980 --> 00:28:07.500 And it's simply because after such a strong year of Doctor Who and such strong monsters, and I even really like this redesign of the cybermen. 461 00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:10.920 I'm just a bit baffled by the poor quality of the vogan masks. 462 00:28:11.700 --> 00:28:15.240 Yeah, Shepard just looks like he looks crazy. 463 00:28:15.299 --> 00:28:17.700 He looks like he's got a bucket on his head. 464 00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:18.240 Yeah, yeah. 465 00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:18.960 It's absurd. 466 00:28:19.019 --> 00:28:25.619 That being said, Roger Murray Leach's work on Arc in Space and Santari. is a designer. 467 00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:29.519 I just want to be the voice for all designers who have been let down by production. 468 00:28:29.579 --> 00:28:32.279 It's, you know, all we do is the drawings. 469 00:28:32.339 --> 00:28:33.059 That's true. 470 00:28:33.059 --> 00:28:33.779 That's true. 471 00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:41.940 Okay, in that case, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, whoever made the masks for the Vogans. 472 00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:44.880 I don't know if there wasn't time to get them measured properly or what. 473 00:28:44.940 --> 00:28:47.160 Of course, you know, Davros's mask looks better. 474 00:28:47.220 --> 00:28:49.019 Davros's mask was made a month after this. 475 00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:50.279 So who knows? 476 00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:52.500 I have 3 candidates. 477 00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:53.400 Do you know what I mean? 478 00:28:53.460 --> 00:28:59.099 Because I thought I would take a leaf out of Todd's book and just every 2nd thing that appeared on screen. 479 00:28:59.160 --> 00:29:01.200 I go, Jenny Laird, Jenny for you. 480 00:29:01.259 --> 00:29:04.019 But I do think... 481 00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:06.180 I've been very sorry about that. 482 00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:09.960 It must be something I like about this season. 483 00:29:10.019 --> 00:29:19.380 But it is something that I've mentioned before, and it was a surprise to me because it had never occurred to me before watching it this time, and it is Noah. 484 00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:22.980 It's Kenton's performance as Noah in Ark in space. 485 00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:31.980 I think it's badly pitched, and I think it risks ruining the story, and it's just a testament to how strong everything else is that means that it doesn't. 486 00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:42.720 I mean, the other thing is something that I've gone on and on about, and it is the 3 speaking roles for women in an entire season, apart from Liz Sladen. 487 00:29:42.779 --> 00:29:44.519 Doctor Who didn't used to do that. 488 00:29:44.579 --> 00:29:45.720 Do you know what I mean? 489 00:29:45.779 --> 00:29:49.740 Even in the Pertry era, there would normally be the other woman character. 490 00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:55.019 This is worse, I think, for representations of women than we've had for a while. 491 00:29:55.079 --> 00:29:59.940 And unfortunately, we're gonna, we're going to see that in a few stories over the next couple of years as well. 492 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:00.839 Yeah. 493 00:30:00.900 --> 00:30:01.619 Yeah, terrible. 494 00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:05.160 There is one story coming up where there's no women on screen. 495 00:30:05.220 --> 00:30:05.940 Yeah. 496 00:30:05.940 --> 00:30:09.539 So it is going to going to Kenton Moore. 497 00:30:09.599 --> 00:30:11.579 So he should expect that in the post. 498 00:30:12.299 --> 00:30:14.460 It's terribly hot. 499 00:30:14.700 --> 00:30:17.940 You're very right about Kenton Moore. 500 00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:23.579 I have to also nominate the giant clans from Genesis of the Dialect. 501 00:30:23.700 --> 00:30:25.380 So we call them Magna Pylorus. 502 00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:26.099 Whatever. 503 00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:29.880 My award is going to Sarah's hat from Robot. 504 00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:32.339 I can't stand it. 505 00:30:32.460 --> 00:30:33.599 Do you know where it's coming from? 506 00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:34.619 I don't care. 507 00:30:35.160 --> 00:30:45.599 Have another look at the Robert Redford. and Mia Farrer version of Gatsby had been out the year before and the Gatsby look was very much in vogue. 508 00:30:45.660 --> 00:30:50.039 Daniel Milker, we could ask for more references, but it's actually a reference to me. 509 00:30:50.039 --> 00:30:52.859 Oh, look and the whole, the colottes and the bill bottoms. 510 00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:54.059 I think she looks gorgeous in that. 511 00:30:54.059 --> 00:30:55.980 I have to reply. 512 00:30:56.039 --> 00:30:57.480 Yeah, I love that little... 513 00:30:57.539 --> 00:30:59.640 I didn't find the rest of the outfit. just the hat. 514 00:30:59.700 --> 00:31:02.940 I have to say that I look like around pumpkin. 515 00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:08.400 I have to say, though, once you've seen carriage on in a flapping white fedora running across a weir. 516 00:31:08.519 --> 00:31:11.579 You've reached peak hat as far as I'm concerned. 517 00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:14.400 Richard, what's your journey there? 518 00:31:14.460 --> 00:31:21.839 It's a difficult one because there are actually so few, but my Jenny Laird award has this year has to go to drum roll, Terrence Dix. 519 00:31:22.500 --> 00:31:28.500 And it does, and I thought about this long and hard, and I just thought to continue the metaphor. 520 00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:38.279 I've just thought Mr. Dix has kind of reached his his zenith and had his chance at his swan song and shown us all the best stuff he could do, and it just isn't good enough. 521 00:31:38.339 --> 00:31:40.259 And I love him as an author. 522 00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:41.579 He got me reading as a small child. 523 00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:44.700 I was reading before, but I read every damn target novel that came out. 524 00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:48.059 But you look at robot and look at the structure and it's actually the script. 525 00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:53.160 Okay, you can talk about the way characters all go, it's Mr. Dix in that, really. 526 00:31:53.220 --> 00:31:58.380 And just comparing that to the rest of the season, the contrast is too high. 527 00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:00.720 Pics of the week, gentlemen. 528 00:32:00.779 --> 00:32:03.359 And I think Todd and Nathan, you've got one you'd like to discuss. 529 00:32:03.420 --> 00:32:05.039 No, no, we have one. 530 00:32:05.099 --> 00:32:12.240 We do have a pick of the week. and Richard, I think, will be quite familiar with this. 531 00:32:12.299 --> 00:32:21.000 In, I think 1978, they released Genesis of the Daleks is an LP, like as an actual album. 532 00:32:21.059 --> 00:32:30.299 And then they rereleased it in the 80s as a cassette, and it's now available from Audible as an audiobook, and it's a 60 minute version of Genesis. 533 00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:30.960 Do you remember this? 534 00:32:31.019 --> 00:32:33.180 The clams cut out. with the clams cut out. 535 00:32:33.299 --> 00:32:36.299 It's got Tom Baker's linking narration and all of that sort of thing. 536 00:32:36.359 --> 00:32:37.619 I have it somewhere, yeah. 537 00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:58.859 Every time I watch Genesis of the Daleks, I can remember which bits were on that audio, because I just listened to it over and over again, like I had the record and then I think I recorded it onto, you know, a wax cylinder or whatever we had in those days, and then, you know, to a, then to a cartridge, and then to a mini disc, and then to an MP3. 538 00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:17.339 But I listened to it over and over again, and so certain music cues are terribly familiar to me, and like, that's why, you know, there's all these lines of dialogue that I can actually say with the same intonation as the actors say it, you know, it was a huge thing before any, you know, home video had been thought of. 539 00:33:17.460 --> 00:33:24.539 Genesis of the Daleks was like the one TV show episode of Doctor Who that I actually owned. 540 00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:29.039 A friend of the podcast, so Simon Moore actually remembers it very fondly. 541 00:33:29.099 --> 00:33:31.740 You know, he said he'd have our heads on a platter. 542 00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:33.240 We didn't mention that. 543 00:33:33.240 --> 00:33:36.420 But I checked on the pescatons. 544 00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:38.579 No, I think it actually predates. 545 00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:40.019 I don't like the does, yes. 546 00:33:40.140 --> 00:33:45.119 Pescatons must have been released earlier because Liz Slayton was gone from Doctor Who by 1978. 547 00:33:45.299 --> 00:33:48.420 Pescaton's was produced between season 13 and 14. 548 00:33:48.539 --> 00:33:58.500 Okay, it was the 1st Doctor Who story that I actually owned in that sort of very real sense, and I've got a very soft spot for it, and you can get it on Audible. 549 00:33:58.559 --> 00:34:00.539 Excellent, very exciting. 550 00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:10.619 Well, I'm going along with you, but I will mention it, there is a Bernice Summerfield audio, which does contain robot monsters from robot. 551 00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:11.099 Oh, yes. 552 00:34:11.159 --> 00:34:12.360 I can't remember what the name of it is. 553 00:34:12.420 --> 00:34:13.019 I can. 554 00:34:13.079 --> 00:34:14.460 The relics of jigsaw. 555 00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:15.420 Okay, I recommend that. 556 00:34:15.539 --> 00:34:16.559 Really? 557 00:34:16.619 --> 00:34:17.039 Yes. 558 00:34:17.099 --> 00:34:19.260 So it's got K1 robots in it? 559 00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:19.920 Yep, yep, yep. 560 00:34:19.980 --> 00:34:21.300 Multiple. numeral. 561 00:34:21.420 --> 00:34:25.380 Well, they were designed to be Moonex, you know, to be other planetary explorers and minors. 562 00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:25.679 Is it? 563 00:34:25.739 --> 00:34:27.659 Is it Michael Kergariff playing? 564 00:34:27.719 --> 00:34:28.440 Yes, yeah. 565 00:34:28.500 --> 00:34:30.300 Do you know where the title comes from? 566 00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:31.500 The relics of jagsaw? 567 00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:32.219 No, no. 568 00:34:32.340 --> 00:34:35.280 In, I believe, 1977. 569 00:34:35.460 --> 00:34:37.380 There were 3 issues. 570 00:34:37.380 --> 00:34:40.980 Yeah, there were these enemies of Doctor Who jigsaw puzzles. 571 00:34:41.039 --> 00:34:45.659 Yes, by Palatoy or Toltoy out in Australia and... 572 00:34:45.659 --> 00:34:47.460 I think it was Waddington's in the UK. 573 00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:48.300 Was it Lewis Marks? 574 00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:49.440 Waddington's, you're right. 575 00:34:49.500 --> 00:34:56.099 And I did used to have one of them, which I had the kraal one with the kraals from the Android invasion. 576 00:34:56.159 --> 00:34:57.900 Memorable enemies of the doctor. 577 00:34:57.960 --> 00:35:02.460 But one of them had the giant robot, but it had this whole group of them. 578 00:35:02.699 --> 00:35:05.940 Marching over the planet surface, yeah. 579 00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:08.039 So the relics of jigsaw. 580 00:35:08.039 --> 00:35:10.679 The relics of jigsaw. 581 00:35:10.739 --> 00:35:13.079 Brilliant. isn't in joke tobac. 582 00:35:13.139 --> 00:35:14.519 Joy. 583 00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:16.500 Pixel. 584 00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:18.059 I have two, to be greedy. 585 00:35:18.179 --> 00:35:22.320 First one is obviously, and everyone will just collectively inhale deeply. 586 00:35:22.380 --> 00:35:23.699 Look at your expectant faces. 587 00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:26.460 The very 1st doctor who wants to book. 588 00:35:26.519 --> 00:35:31.500 It was just called Productal Monster book that came out the same year just to address the balance because Mr. Dix did write this. 589 00:35:31.559 --> 00:35:32.579 It's Joyous. 590 00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:42.239 In those days, if you can imagine, listener, if you weren't around when we were kids, there weren't any photographic references, letter, like, you just didn't get to see anything. 591 00:35:42.300 --> 00:35:52.139 So even though this was what we would now call an A4 format, and it was black and white, although it had a lovely colour pullout poster by Chris Achilles, of gorgeous things drawn, not photos. 592 00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:57.420 It just had all great, so many great monsters, including Sensorites, the 1st time we ever saw them. 593 00:35:57.480 --> 00:35:59.099 And Zabi, what are these? 594 00:35:59.159 --> 00:35:59.699 Oh, that's right. 595 00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:00.420 We've read the book. 596 00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:02.340 And it's a really great little thing. 597 00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:09.239 It talks about his young old face and shock of white hair who magically dissolves into Tom with his teeth and curls. 598 00:36:09.239 --> 00:36:12.539 Didn't I tell you that that was my 1st experience of Doctor Who was that? 599 00:36:12.599 --> 00:36:13.980 Was that Doctor Who? 600 00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:16.679 It might have been the 2nd edition, but my friend... 601 00:36:16.679 --> 00:36:18.719 The 2nd one was smaller and cute A5. 602 00:36:18.900 --> 00:36:21.239 I have it if any of the listeners would like me to bring it over. 603 00:36:21.300 --> 00:36:23.159 I have my original copy. 604 00:36:23.219 --> 00:36:24.179 I will bring it next time. 605 00:36:24.300 --> 00:36:28.500 I also really love, and just because Ian Marta is probably my pick of the season. 606 00:36:28.559 --> 00:36:30.780 He did a target. it wasn't Target, was it? 607 00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:31.320 Yeah, it was. 608 00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:32.579 It was one of the last target novels. 609 00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:34.320 There were 2 that came out of companion. 610 00:36:34.380 --> 00:36:36.539 It was called The Companions of Doctor Who series. 611 00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:39.179 The other one, I won't mention, it's Turlow, something or another. 612 00:36:40.500 --> 00:36:42.000 That's it. 613 00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:42.659 Shudder. 614 00:36:42.719 --> 00:36:43.559 The whole room just shook. 615 00:36:43.619 --> 00:36:48.179 However, if you want the, if you want another, if you want another take on just how good that can be. 616 00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:53.880 Harry Sullivan's War, written by Ian Marty, just shows you what a great, you know, gung ho. 617 00:36:53.940 --> 00:36:56.880 It's very bulldog drum and for meat meets Bond. 618 00:36:56.940 --> 00:36:58.079 It's a terrific read. 619 00:36:58.139 --> 00:36:59.460 And again, if any listeners want. 620 00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:01.739 I'll read it out for you and record it. 621 00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:03.900 It's only 300 something pages. 622 00:37:03.960 --> 00:37:05.340 It's very thick and it's really good. 623 00:37:05.460 --> 00:37:12.960 And and Mona wrote 9 Doctor Who novelisations, including... 624 00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:14.280 Both of which are really worth reading. 625 00:37:14.340 --> 00:37:16.679 And he's extremely good. 626 00:37:16.739 --> 00:37:18.480 Have you read Enemy of the World? 627 00:37:18.539 --> 00:37:20.760 I have, but you know why it's not good? 628 00:37:20.820 --> 00:37:22.920 Ian Marty's stuff was cut. 629 00:37:22.980 --> 00:37:34.440 It went for too long and they cut it and whoever was within one of the editors rewrote whole parts of it. and it's so sad that there are parts of that novel that make no sense and only now we know why because the bloody target. 630 00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:37.079 Oh, editor said, oh, no kids are going to buy this. 631 00:37:37.139 --> 00:37:37.739 It's too long. 632 00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:39.239 I just assuming it was Kerry Packard. 633 00:37:39.300 --> 00:37:40.139 They're not going to buy this. 634 00:37:40.199 --> 00:37:40.619 It too long. 635 00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:43.260 The Rupert Murdoch's of their age just said, no, cut it down. 636 00:37:43.320 --> 00:37:45.179 Ian was really upset about that. 637 00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:47.340 He wrote the rescue as well, which you can get. 638 00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:48.480 Yeah, which is actually cool. 639 00:37:48.539 --> 00:37:49.800 That was his last one. 640 00:37:49.860 --> 00:37:54.539 It was published posthumously. read by Maureen O'Brien, I think, the audiobook. 641 00:37:54.599 --> 00:37:57.539 If you can hunt down an Ian Martyr target book. 642 00:37:57.599 --> 00:37:58.139 Yeah. 643 00:37:58.139 --> 00:37:58.980 In the office. 644 00:37:59.039 --> 00:37:59.820 Really worth it. 645 00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:01.199 Love his arc and space. 646 00:38:01.260 --> 00:38:02.039 Earth shocks great. 647 00:38:02.099 --> 00:38:03.480 But the book. 648 00:38:04.260 --> 00:38:06.420 Let's make that quite clear. 649 00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:08.940 My pick is also a big finish. 650 00:38:09.239 --> 00:38:13.920 And it is the aforementioned I Davros series. 651 00:38:13.980 --> 00:38:15.000 Oh, yes. 652 00:38:15.059 --> 00:38:22.860 Four of them briefly features one of the actors who played Dav Ross, I'm not going to say which, because there have been several. 653 00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:26.280 Jenny Land. could be anyone under that mask, couldn't it? 654 00:38:26.340 --> 00:38:35.880 But also, as young Davros, it features Rory Jennings, more familiar to Doctor Who fans as Tommy from The Idiot's Lantern. as a young De Ross. 655 00:38:35.940 --> 00:38:43.260 It features Peter Miles in the role of Nider, and it shows you how Davros and Nider met, how Davros's experiment started. 656 00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:46.199 It actually, it goes right back. 657 00:38:46.260 --> 00:38:52.980 It goes right back to parallel with the gunslingers, and Nider was actually working the bar. in the hoop skirts and... 658 00:38:52.980 --> 00:38:55.440 I mean, all of Davros wielding. 659 00:38:55.500 --> 00:39:02.340 All of Big Finisher's stories with Davros have been good because they've been very sensible to do Dalek stories with Davros and Dalek stories without Davros. 660 00:39:02.579 --> 00:39:12.239 But this is a very effective and very sympathetic as much as possible examination of the character in the character. 661 00:39:12.300 --> 00:39:17.280 I believe you can get it all for $20 or less downloaded. 662 00:39:17.340 --> 00:39:18.599 It's part of their $5 range. 663 00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:19.380 Exactly. 664 00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:21.960 Right now, it's really cheap on the big finish website. 665 00:39:22.019 --> 00:39:23.639 Yeah, we'll include a link for that. 666 00:39:23.699 --> 00:39:25.500 Really worth getting, yeah. 667 00:39:25.559 --> 00:39:30.599 It's also, if you ever bought the Davros box set, which is still around, which has all the Davros, Doctor Who stories. 668 00:39:30.659 --> 00:39:33.000 It's included the audio of adventures. 669 00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:34.619 I've also included on the back of that as well. 670 00:39:47.579 --> 00:39:56.099 Okay, well, that's all time we have, and then it's the end of Doctor Who season 12, which means it's time for a bit of housekeeping. 671 00:39:56.280 --> 00:40:02.099 All season 13, Nathan, Richard, and myself will be commenting on the stories. 672 00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:04.320 Todd, you will join us again in season 14. 673 00:40:04.500 --> 00:40:08.639 We're shoving him back in that glass octahedron, who'll be hovering up above our heads. 674 00:40:08.699 --> 00:40:11.880 Now, we mentioned also, you know, about the length of your trousers. 675 00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:15.000 So story assignations. 676 00:40:15.059 --> 00:40:16.559 Nathan. 677 00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:19.139 You will be covering. 678 00:40:19.199 --> 00:40:20.159 Pyramids of Mars. 679 00:40:20.219 --> 00:40:21.239 Damn. 680 00:40:21.300 --> 00:40:22.559 It's not very good. 681 00:40:23.219 --> 00:40:24.780 And the Android Invasion. 682 00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:26.579 You get Terry Nation. 683 00:40:26.639 --> 00:40:28.320 Surely can. 684 00:40:29.519 --> 00:40:36.420 Meanwhile, I will be enduring Planet of Evil and the brain of Morbius. 685 00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:43.320 So I've got the sort of cinema classics of the season, which Richard leaves you with 1st and lasts. 686 00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:47.340 You've got Terror of the Zygons. and Seeds of Doom. 687 00:40:47.400 --> 00:40:50.820 You've got a Canfield, Bergen, Marathon, Henry. 688 00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:55.139 That's the double beef all patties with sauce, isn't it? 689 00:40:55.199 --> 00:40:56.699 I'm not complaining, you listener. 690 00:40:56.760 --> 00:40:58.920 I think you're going to, I think we're going to have fun next year. 691 00:40:58.980 --> 00:40:59.280 Yeah. 692 00:40:59.280 --> 00:41:00.179 Yeah. 693 00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:03.719 So Richard, you'll be back leading us through the Scottish Highlands. 694 00:41:03.780 --> 00:41:04.559 I will. 695 00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:08.219 I've already got my fetch and ensemble together. 696 00:41:08.280 --> 00:41:08.760 Do you like it? 697 00:41:08.820 --> 00:41:12.719 Yeah, we'll be we'll be cracking the shortbread for that one, listen. 698 00:41:12.780 --> 00:41:15.780 We'll run we'll run you up a caver next week. 699 00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:18.119 I think we've just defended every Scottish listener. 700 00:41:18.119 --> 00:41:18.659 Lost them all. 701 00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:20.760 Sorry, Blaine. 702 00:41:20.820 --> 00:41:21.360 Sorry, Shaz. 703 00:41:21.420 --> 00:41:24.539 And until then, thank you very much for listening. 704 00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:30.179 Find us online, flight through entirety.com, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on Twitter. 705 00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:31.739 Is it true you can leave a review? 706 00:41:31.800 --> 00:41:32.880 I've heard I have. 707 00:41:32.940 --> 00:41:33.840 I have heard that. 708 00:41:33.900 --> 00:41:35.340 Yeah, I'm not sure, though. 709 00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:36.239 How would you do that? 710 00:41:36.300 --> 00:41:37.139 I'm playing. 711 00:41:37.139 --> 00:41:40.559 Please do it. to another one of these. 712 00:41:40.619 --> 00:41:42.059 I reckon by now. 713 00:41:42.119 --> 00:41:44.159 You know, we've been releasing this in week's time. 714 00:41:44.219 --> 00:41:46.199 I reckon we'll have 50 to 100 reviews by now. 715 00:41:46.260 --> 00:41:46.800 What a bet. 716 00:41:46.860 --> 00:41:47.820 Really? 717 00:41:47.820 --> 00:41:51.599 out of your system. my mum to do one. 718 00:41:51.659 --> 00:41:53.400 Yes, Mr. Bealby. 719 00:41:53.460 --> 00:41:56.099 Thank you very much, all of you for listening and good night. 720 00:41:56.159 --> 00:41:56.880 Good night. 721 00:41:56.940 --> 00:41:58.139 Thank you for your endurance. 722 00:41:58.260 --> 00:41:59.579 Bye, Brigg. 723 00:41:59.639 --> 00:42:00.000 Bye, Harry. 724 00:42:03.059 --> 00:42:07.980 That was Flight Through Entirety with Todd Bealby, Nathan Bufferly, Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone. 725 00:42:08.039 --> 00:42:13.380 This episode, a sociopathic child, was recorded on Sunday, June 14th. 726 00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:16.679 The next episode will be released on July 26th. 727 00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:22.739 If you're after one of the biggest bangs in history, don't forget, Bondfinger starts August first. 728 00:42:26.519 --> 00:42:30.300 I may like re like it when I watch it in context. 729 00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:31.320 No, you'll find it. 730 00:42:31.619 --> 00:42:31.920 Where is it? 731 00:42:31.980 --> 00:42:32.460 Where is it? 732 00:42:32.820 --> 00:42:34.679 Sorry, me. 733 00:42:34.739 --> 00:42:37.440 You're just stereotyping now, Richard. 734 00:42:37.619 --> 00:42:40.019 I'm a very complex person.