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NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:13:33

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Hello and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast, which is powered by the Kinetic Force of Planetary Movement.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Janet Lee's sacerating shower curtain in this one.

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I just get better and bad.

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So we're heading down to Zita Minor on a Merestran probe ship.

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How'd you know it's evil?

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Just because it's God, you know it.

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It's not.

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That's one of those cases where, which is what I really like about Robert Holmes diving right in there, he doesn't really like monsters that are black and white, although this jungle would have looked pretty ordinary in black and white.

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This isn't a heart more storage anymore, is it?

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We've left the 60s nice and proper and still until we get into the spaceship, which is entirely...

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In fact, the Sensorite spaceship looked a hell of a lot better than this Maristran one, jumping ahead.

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I do love that they're all dressed up, however, as the Jackson 5 or indeed Casey and the Sunshine Band as the Marestrum soldiers because what the hell is that scallop neck on those uniforms?

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Is it really designation by the amount of chest hair that you have, which is why Vashinsky should really be running the show because he's got more chest hair than anybody else.

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It's really off-putting too, isn't it?

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It's a huge clump of gray chest hair.

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Fabulous 70s.

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You can see Freddie Mercury was just itching.

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You know that later on that year, the Freddy, we always think it's come before, but there's that queen, sorry, Freddy.

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It is the name of your band.

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There's that queen video clip where you get that red pullback of Freddie Jaeger's movie monster when he pulls back and queen use that.

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Is it Bohemian Rhapsody?

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It is.

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Bohemian Rhapsody uses exactly the same effect.

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I'm sure they got it from Doctor Who.

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I think you'll find it's Kwanye now.

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But let's not...

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Let's not discuss...

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I don't boil any of that up.

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That's not discussed, kind of.

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I thought that was JZ.

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I always get them.

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No, no, it was Kanye.

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You're listening to radio 4.

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So we are on the planet Zeta Minor, for a story which is quite polarising with fans, when I used to do Pinot Scaro audios, where I was playing Doctor Who, was slightly Australian Doctor Who.

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My sidekick.

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Tom was played by the wonderful Simon Hart, who is a very, very nice chap and always very positive about Doctor Who.

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And as such refers to this story as Planet of Wretched Evil because he hates it so much.

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Really, though?

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How can you hate it that much?

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Well, what is there to hate?

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Have any opinion about it, actually?

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actually?

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It's really not that great.

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See, I think it's a story with wonderful buildup.

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You have that really atmospheric planet.

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Roger Murray leeches back again.

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The planet set, we should say.

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Look, what happens in this story?

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Or do I just say, go and watch Howard Hawk's 1951, the thing, go and read Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, and then watch Forbidden Planet, and you've got the entire story.

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Yeah, yeah.

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The story itself is a hodgepodge of different ideas.

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This is probably Hinchcliffe and Holmes taking old ideas and making them new again.

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This is probably their worst offender with not actually providing that much new for the idea aside from a new setting.

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There wasn't a great deal of anti-master in Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, though, as far as I can remember.

57
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No, and I was actually thinking of C. sorry?

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You had the potion in that, which sort of had the antimatter effect.

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Well, you know, in the 1st script, the planet was actually meant to be the changeable, sentient creature, which was very Stanislaus, Lem Solaris.

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I mean, you get the sense that that, the creature, what, there wants a creature originally.

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But that creature thing is kind of an avatar of the planet or a representative.

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Exactly.

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And it was an add-on.

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There wasn't going to be a monster suit.

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I think it's a crying shame that they did one.

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The creature is most scary when it's just the tinkling tenabulations in the forest and Sarah's eyes stand out on Mobius stalks and she just has that. is real horror.

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This is one of the 1st, I should say, that I knew, and we were so lucky, dear listener, in the 70s, before you were all born, that we are, in Australia, we got to, we got the target books before, a good 12 months before the shows aired.

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So this is one I remember reading what we called babysitting, which was frying a child on a beach in Australia for 8 hours.

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So I'm hiding on freshwater beach, not far from where Nathan grew up. reading this book and longing to be somewhere dark and cold.

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And so I didn't never got the sense of horror from this.

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I got that it was one of the Terrence Dix plotters and I've got it here if we want to pull it out and flash it to the listener.

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This makes great radio.

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It just really worked as a great traditional SF story and there's nothing wrong with poaching, the 1950s that gives you a lovely sheen on your egg yolk.

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Yeah, I think what really helps it here is that in terms of the design, and in terms of the writing and in terms of the direction, it's very confident in taking those things, it doesn't attempt to hide them.

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It doesn't attempt to dress them up.

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It is saying, yeah, we are doing forbidden planet.

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We are doing Dr. Jekyll and Mr. High, I'm used to it.

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Better.

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The jungle set is so beautiful.

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Can I completely disagree?

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Really?

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Well, there's 2 jungle sets.

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I mean, we shoot at Ealing, I think.

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Yeah, there's the film one with the water and there's water and this red lighting and stuff and I think it looks really, really great.

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And I think the moment you move into the studio it just looks terrible.

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Oh, it exhibits Dr. A. Exhibit A is the pool, you know, that black pool where the walls just look like, you know, no one's ever come away from Blackpool with anything nice to say, though.

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The wolves just look like they're from Omega's powers, you know?

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on a quick repaint.

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They're terrible.

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And then for, then we're off the planet for the 2nd half of it, and we're in that terrible Morestran spaceship, where some attempt is being made by, is it David Maloney, so kind of get it lit interestingly, but it just fails, and it's like the money's run out.

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It is lovely that both Hoover and Gillette have put money into the design of the Maristan Space Bro, haven't they?

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Because it does look like something you'd shave with slash back up the cat. they had to add.

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They had to add a bit onto it.

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The lowest bit as you look at the spaceship from top to bottom.

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This is the model, right?

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The lowest bit of the model.

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They had to add that little protrusion onto it because they suddenly realised that the set that had been built in the studio, that they climbed down under, looked nothing like the model.

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As if that's ever mattered in the history of anything.

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Surely Hay or Blake 7.

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Surely it was just because it looked too much like a 2 litre detergent bottle, you know, and stuck in front of a ceiling.

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With a safety razor on the front.

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Yeah, yeah.

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It's terrible.

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I mean, the money must have run out.

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Maybe Roger Murray Leach had splashed out.

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No, this is the...

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That's how you did spaceships in the 70s on every show.

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This was the 2nd story to be produced for this production block.

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Pyramids of Mars was actually produced first, but always planned to be afterwards.

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And there is a shot in Pyramids of Mars, which I think is a very strong indication of this.

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I will come back to that when we get to Pyramids and Mars.

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So yeah, I don't think the money had so much run out.

113
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Perhaps all the money was spent on the jungle and there wasn't as much for the ship or they just wanted the ship to look very pristine and very...

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I don't think it looks any better or worse than skybase, for instance, from the mutants.

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I think the uniforms are far worse.

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Those horrible scallop net uniforms.

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And you know what?

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Even if you get, even if you get a man in the modern era with a lovely, huge chest, he still looks stupid in a scallop neck t-shirt.

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Scallop neck t-shirts do not work for any man.

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Yes, please pay attention to that at home.

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Yes, yeah.

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Please wouldn't mind.

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They really don't, do they?

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Less is definitely more.

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Yeah.

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But in the 70s.

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Yeah, has everyone forgotten St.

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Robin Williams?

129
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Oh, so quickly too soon?

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What did more wear, but exactly that shirt?

131
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Yeah, but Mork wasn't exactly the height of fashion.

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I mean, it was a bit spunky pants. his little sleeveless bomber jacket and his... and his...

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Sesame Street shirt.

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And his floppy hair.

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You know, floppy hair doesn't work on everyone, but floppy hair worked on young Robin Williams. did.

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Yeah.

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I'm Pam Dorber, it turns out.

138
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You know, I miss Robin Williams.

139
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So do I. Gosh.

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He would have been great in this.

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As the anti-matter monster.

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It was all it's almost Sesame Street, isn't it?

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already.

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He would have been great at Sorenson.

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He would have been great in the Vashinsky.

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He would be great.

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Salamar.

148
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We can talk about salamo.

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Yes. the problem.

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What is it?

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He's played by Prentice Hamler.

152
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He's played by Prince so he's really terrible.

153
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Whom they got as a big deal because, you know, it was terror of the Zygons that was stealing all of the oompah of Space 1999.

154
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It's Terror of the Zygons, episode 2, where Space 1999 premiered, and the BBC were looking very nervous.

155
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Very nervous indeed.

156
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They needn't have been.

157
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No, they needn't.

158
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Mostly because 1999 never got networked, so it never quite picked up the jewellers.

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You can see with a dip in the episode 6. one backup to 11 point whatever it was for episode 3 of Saigons.

160
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But for this one, getting Prentice Hancock, who was 2IC in the 1st season of 1999 made a big deal at the whole thing.

161
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It was a big issue.

162
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Yeah.

163
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In the days before that meant anything.

164
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Well, he's not that good, but the dialogue is Thunderbirds without the, without the laughs.

165
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The weird thing is, what I decided to do with the stories I was looking at this season was I decided to watch them episode by episode and for my opinion based on each episode and it's not until episode 3 that Prentice Hancock gets really bad and in particular his character just takes a lurch out the window.

166
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The 1st 2 episodes, I actually think he plays a character who is out of his depth and struggling to maintain control.

167
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I think he plays that very well, and he plays that stress very well, because sometimes he'll bark at Visinsky, but sometimes he'll listen to him.

168
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So there's an inconsistency there that makes sense.

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So, you know, I do definitely understand that he's a character who is out of his depth, then Prentice Hancock viewed him as a character who only got his command because Daddy was very powerful.

170
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Does that come across in the script?

171
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I think it comes across in Prentice Hancock's performance.

172
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Prentice Hancock has said in later years, he considered the script quite thin, and I think... that's a that's a that's a that's coming from Prentice Hancock.

173
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You know, I actually have to say that I think he's an astute critic because one of the problems with this story is that there are virtually no recognisable characters at all.

174
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Like Mashinski is...

175
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Shinski shines in this.

176
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Yeah, I'm not just looking all that all that platinum blonde chest.

177
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No.

178
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But I mean, name one personality trait that he has.

179
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Do you know what I mean?

180
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Like he's nice, I guess, but there's really not very much to him.

181
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Sorenson's a little bit more...

182
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Yeah, but you know, like he's a bit more of a recognisable character.

183
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I like Lewis Marty, although blinking you miss him.

184
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Yeah, Token newsreader from...

185
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And also...

186
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Nice to blink there.

187
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He is too. you.

188
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My goodness.

189
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I'd forgotten.

190
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Because he's old Danny Shipton.

191
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And do you know what other cult role he had, which people will find very recognisable?

192
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He's the doctor in that faulty tower.

193
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Mr. Faulty, you must get as much rest as you can.

194
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He's in the Germans.

195
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He's the doctor to whom Basil has a very bad reaction.

196
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Let's just leave this.

197
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He's really good in this.

198
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Yeah, yeah.

199
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And again, they kind of, it's this one where everybody dies now.

200
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But what I quite like is most of the soldiers and the scientific crew, the actors play them quite naturalistically.

201
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Like they sort of play them like jobs worth. like Dahan is pretty much just Sergeant Benton.

202
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Actually, Dahan is nearly a character, all that bitching about carrying things and going...

203
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Dehan, the leader wants us to carry this into the ship and out again.

204
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Thank you, Michael Wisher.

205
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And my wisher gets a dual role.

206
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Yes, he's Morelli.

207
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Yes, and then he's Ranjit or whatever his name is.

208
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Yes, you're doing a comedy... brains from the new Thunderbirds.

209
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The thing is, they make such a big deal about the split level effect of this set and how it was so up to the minute.

210
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I'm thinking, oh, come on, boys.

211
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Okay, we know you're trying to mirror the moon-based alpha split level set.

212
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But space 1979, sick, was the most expensive thing, their episode ever made for television in the history of the medium in 1975, six.

213
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Not until roots came along, about 78, 79.

214
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That had Geordie from...

215
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Yes, LeBar Burton.

216
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Otherwise, we wouldn't bother watching it.

217
00:13:29.820 --> 00:13:31.440
But no, it's actually very good.

218
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But yeah, you can't compete visually.

219
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So you have to do it with scripts and then you have to do it with actors.

220
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And I think the cast is bad.

221
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I don't actually think that Salamar is, like, I just can't say the actor's name out loud.

222
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I guess that Salamo is such so poor.

223
00:13:47.460 --> 00:13:50.759
His his role, his script as it's written, is so bland.

224
00:13:50.820 --> 00:13:52.440
What else is he going to do with it?

225
00:13:52.500 --> 00:13:53.399
Yeah, yeah.

226
00:13:53.460 --> 00:13:55.259
I think the main problem is...

227
00:13:55.500 --> 00:14:05.820
In the 1st 2.5 episodes, all of the tension in his character and his insecurity is coming from Prentice Hancock's performance.

228
00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:09.600
Now, I will say Prentice Hancock is not the best actor in the series.

229
00:14:09.659 --> 00:14:11.399
You get a fulsome career afterwards, do you?

230
00:14:12.360 --> 00:14:15.000
But I do think of his 4 Doctor Who appearances.

231
00:14:15.059 --> 00:14:22.740
This is his best performance because he is having to invent it himself and he is getting sort of tension in there and what have you.

232
00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:42.240
The main problem is because there is no tension ramping up in the script, when he goes mad at the end of episode 3 and goes with the realisation that, oh, you know, now we've got to kill the doctor and Sarah, it comes out of nowhere because initially he's suspicious of the doctor and Sarah, but then he actually observes that they know what they're talking about.

233
00:14:42.299 --> 00:14:44.340
So he trusts them to an extent.

234
00:14:44.519 --> 00:14:49.799
Isn't he just an intransigent base commander who goes mad?

235
00:14:49.860 --> 00:14:50.700
Yeah, yeah.

236
00:14:50.820 --> 00:14:51.480
Do you know what I mean?

237
00:14:51.539 --> 00:14:52.919
haven't we seen this 100s of times?

238
00:14:52.980 --> 00:14:54.419
In episode two.

239
00:14:54.480 --> 00:15:00.600
It starts looking like he's leaning back the other direction and then he just goes full force back and you're like, but this doesn't make any sense.

240
00:15:00.659 --> 00:15:09.659
Narratively, it's one of those stories that actually needs to be 6 parters, just a 6 parter, just to get its flow. how much fun that would have been this time.

241
00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:10.620
But not really.

242
00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:13.980
It actually does need that space for development.

243
00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:15.840
I think we're quite glad it didn't bother.

244
00:15:15.899 --> 00:15:25.500
But I do also think that really characterisation is a low point for this episode because even the characterisation of the doctor and Sarah isn't very good.

245
00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:26.940
The rapport is lovely.

246
00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:34.019
Their rapport is lovely, but their motivations within the script are very strange because we must respond to this distress signal.

247
00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:35.340
They respond to the distress signal.

248
00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:36.179
They get caught.

249
00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:37.320
They get...

250
00:15:37.379 --> 00:15:39.840
Nothing bad's ever happened from responding to it.

251
00:15:39.899 --> 00:15:42.299
Hello, Ridley Scott, you're watching this, aren't you?

252
00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:43.379
They get cool.

253
00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:44.700
They get chucked in a cell, of course.

254
00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:46.139
They decide to escape.

255
00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:48.360
And then when they get caught again.

256
00:15:48.419 --> 00:15:49.740
They say, don't worry, we're here to help.

257
00:15:49.799 --> 00:15:55.919
I have, I found myself thinking, uh, you've just tried to run back to this Hartus and leave everyone to their fate.

258
00:15:55.980 --> 00:15:56.879
You're not there to help.

259
00:15:56.940 --> 00:15:58.200
You're there because you got caught.

260
00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:00.120
Nicely observed.

261
00:16:00.179 --> 00:16:02.399
It doesn't make a lot of sense, does it?

262
00:16:02.460 --> 00:16:08.940
Do you really think that Sarah, in the real universe, in our universe anyway, would be packing heat before she even steps out of that blue box?

263
00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:13.259
Because really, it's not the 1st time someone's come the nasties at you, Sarah.

264
00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:15.840
Don't you think she'd be just a little bit?

265
00:16:15.899 --> 00:16:25.019
Okay, you can choose not to carry a gun, but I'm wearing I'm wearing Sigourney Weaver's exoskeleton for this entire story and don't you even start?

266
00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:30.720
If she was too stupid to get back in it, you know, like, why didn't we get back in the tennis thing?

267
00:16:30.779 --> 00:16:35.460
Well, she keeps being told Cassiopeia and Florana and bugger that.

268
00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:44.159
It's always bright and pier or you know, some slop quarry. somewhere outside Dorset. at unit headquarters.

269
00:16:44.220 --> 00:16:46.500
They've been in South Croydon.

270
00:16:46.620 --> 00:16:48.899
I was just going to say, how bad must Croydon be?

271
00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:49.919
Really?

272
00:16:49.980 --> 00:16:54.360
She's off in Zita Minor on the very boundary of our universe.

273
00:16:55.740 --> 00:16:57.179
And it's still better than Croydon.

274
00:16:57.240 --> 00:16:58.919
Thankfully, Liz is wonderful though.

275
00:16:58.980 --> 00:17:03.960
And we get something we didn't mention last week with Zigons, where we had the 1st instance.

276
00:17:04.019 --> 00:17:07.380
This is the 2nd instance of...

277
00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:10.259
Which is an amazing Liz Trump.

278
00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:17.579
That's a real problem for me, and I think maybe you as well, Nathan, with Liz's performance of Sarah Jane Smith, in that it's just too good.

279
00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:19.079
It's too realistic.

280
00:17:19.140 --> 00:17:27.000
So when she experiences real fear and real horror, it's never the same as when Joe Grant did, that was still within the realms of the fun of the show.

281
00:17:27.059 --> 00:17:29.039
This is palpable.

282
00:17:29.099 --> 00:17:31.559
I know she's suffering, and it just makes it much worse.

283
00:17:31.619 --> 00:17:34.740
I don't think Joe ever suffers the sort of things that...

284
00:17:34.740 --> 00:17:36.180
I never did anything as horrible to her.

285
00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:41.160
You know that you know that the master might have given her a slightly inferior brandy had he?

286
00:17:41.940 --> 00:17:45.539
He had a directed a cutting remark.

287
00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:48.480
And that's it, yeah.

288
00:17:48.539 --> 00:17:51.119
They had it easy in them 70s, didn't they?

289
00:17:51.180 --> 00:17:53.160
Not the girl from 1980.

290
00:17:53.279 --> 00:18:03.059
I will say listeners on a related note, if you ever meet big finishes, Nigel Fairs, he does he does a wonderful impression of Sarah Jane's can't breathe.

291
00:18:03.180 --> 00:18:05.940
I won't even... how that came about.

292
00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:06.599
No.

293
00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:10.440
Cheers, Nigel, if you're listening.

294
00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:14.279
There are other things to look at in their story.

295
00:18:14.339 --> 00:18:17.220
There's Hayden Wood who plays O'Hara very briefly.

296
00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:20.880
He's rather pretty to look at and then becomes a desiccated coconut.

297
00:18:20.940 --> 00:18:22.019
Yeah, I was going to say, not after.

298
00:18:22.140 --> 00:18:23.759
No, no, not after.

299
00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:27.960
It's a bit up the Orinoco, isn't it?

300
00:18:28.019 --> 00:18:32.700
The tribes of the hakawi because there's all that, there's all that.

301
00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:41.099
Again, we go back to Edwardian stuff, that, you know, the horror is that you'll be turned into some zombie tribal effigy.

302
00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:42.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

303
00:18:42.539 --> 00:18:44.640
Because they still managed to be racist without even trying.

304
00:18:44.700 --> 00:18:45.359
Don't they?

305
00:18:45.420 --> 00:18:48.660
And they try not to be racist here because all the morastians.

306
00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:49.799
It must be a human colony.

307
00:18:49.859 --> 00:18:51.839
They all have last names that come from different cultures.

308
00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:54.960
Yeah, and they still hint that there's no sense of being earth.

309
00:18:55.019 --> 00:18:56.880
Although they, she does say, oh, we're from Earth.

310
00:18:56.940 --> 00:18:57.839
And he says, that's impossible.

311
00:18:57.900 --> 00:19:00.900
So I'd like to think they're in the year 37,000 or something.

312
00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:02.160
I'm not going to get too nerdy about it.

313
00:19:02.220 --> 00:19:05.640
37,166. to do that, didn't you?

314
00:19:05.819 --> 00:19:10.440
And listen, you were thinking exactly the same thought at exactly the same time, weren't you?

315
00:19:10.500 --> 00:19:11.759
We love you to keep listening.

316
00:19:11.819 --> 00:19:15.119
Oh, also, there's an iTunes thing if you want to comment in case.

317
00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:16.980
Did we mention that?

318
00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:18.839
Yeah, I don't think we've ever said that before.

319
00:19:18.900 --> 00:19:19.140
Go on.

320
00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:19.799
No, no.

321
00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:21.779
But guess who else is on the crew?

322
00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:25.079
And doesn't get killed by the alien menace.

323
00:19:25.140 --> 00:19:26.460
It's Terry Walsh.

324
00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:28.680
In fact, he's not dead?

325
00:19:28.740 --> 00:19:30.420
Well, he is by the end.

326
00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:31.920
He gets killed by printer's girlfriend.

327
00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:35.759
I think he does get killed by the alien menace, in fact.

328
00:19:35.819 --> 00:19:37.920
I think that...

329
00:19:37.980 --> 00:19:38.940
Did he get killed twice?

330
00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:40.140
Yeah, I think he gets killed twice.

331
00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:52.859
There is a scene, I think, in episode 2 where they're all shooting at the at the creature thing from the outside of the ship, which is actually a bit of the set that I don't mind.

332
00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:56.460
You know, there's that, the sort of outside of the ship set and they're all shooting.

333
00:19:56.519 --> 00:20:00.599
And I think Terry does a headlong plunge off the side of the sheet.

334
00:20:00.660 --> 00:20:02.400
Oh, very nicely too, into the thing.

335
00:20:02.460 --> 00:20:03.660
I think that's almost certainly, Terry.

336
00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:06.480
It's a little bit hard to see his face, but you do see him before then.

337
00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:09.480
And then later on, he's a guard who is there.

338
00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:10.680
Oh, right.

339
00:20:10.740 --> 00:20:13.079
So Terry Walsh plays twin brothers in this, is what you're saying.

340
00:20:13.259 --> 00:20:14.339
I think I think that's probably it.

341
00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:19.920
We don't get Terry Walsh. credited as an actor for a long time after this one.

342
00:20:19.980 --> 00:20:20.759
No, that's true.

343
00:20:20.819 --> 00:20:27.059
He's had his he's had his big role previously where he got to deliver lines and A line and be A person.

344
00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:30.359
Yeah, he's going to be Mensch later on in Power of Kroll.

345
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:32.160
Yeah, that's right.

346
00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:36.000
He is going to be one of Lady Adraster's guy.

347
00:20:36.420 --> 00:20:36.900
Wolf weeds?

348
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:37.380
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

349
00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:38.579
One of the wolf weeds, yeah.

350
00:20:38.700 --> 00:20:44.099
But he won't get a sort of credited acting role, although he will still do some stunt arranging.

351
00:20:44.220 --> 00:20:47.220
Well, we should mention that one of the, have we mentioned this?

352
00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:56.700
One of the reasons that we, apart from the fact that we just think he's great, is that Terry Walsh's son was kind enough to contact us at the podcast and say that he's listening.

353
00:20:56.759 --> 00:21:01.319
I think we just worried that we called an episode punching Terry Walsh in the face.

354
00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:05.160
As a description, not an instruction.

355
00:21:05.220 --> 00:21:06.599
I point out once again.

356
00:21:06.660 --> 00:21:10.619
He does do the stunt for Tom in this one as well, falling into the pit of oblivion.

357
00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:15.599
And I would like to know how Terry was feeling about Tom wanting to do more of his own stunts.

358
00:21:15.660 --> 00:21:17.339
You see more of that as the season goes on.

359
00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:21.420
Tom starts to do more of his jumping from a great height stunt stuff.

360
00:21:21.539 --> 00:21:23.579
How did they actually do that thing?

361
00:21:23.700 --> 00:21:25.440
I don't know how they realise the pool?

362
00:21:25.500 --> 00:21:27.359
The pool is obviously black because it's CSO.

363
00:21:27.420 --> 00:21:29.579
Yeah, it's the, it's black drape.

364
00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:30.839
It's actually just black velvet.

365
00:21:30.900 --> 00:21:32.400
They do a bit of CSO as well, though.

366
00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:38.579
It is a CSO drape inside, which is coloured black, which is why it's a very flat black and there's no reflection.

367
00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:41.400
And yet they might as well have not bothered because it's still not that interesting.

368
00:21:41.579 --> 00:21:44.160
Whether that's it, that's a terrible sense.

369
00:21:44.220 --> 00:21:51.180
What I really like about it, though, and I don't know if this is deliberate, of course, I love to think that it's Omega's spa.

370
00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:53.640
Well, that's what I'm saying.

371
00:21:53.700 --> 00:22:00.359
When the doctor falls into it, he's in a black void with swirling lights just like Pert we was when he was fighting the dark side of home because mind.

372
00:22:00.420 --> 00:22:05.220
Or travelling from world to world in Inferno, actually. same Yeah, the same difference.

373
00:22:05.579 --> 00:22:08.400
Without Catherine Skill menacing him in, you know, latex.

374
00:22:08.460 --> 00:22:12.059
Jabberwocky And Tom in there, half of it is him.

375
00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:16.380
And half of it, I believe, is Alan Chuntz.

376
00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:18.119
Chunsey was back.

377
00:22:18.180 --> 00:22:22.500
You mean Mr. Humphreys' chauffeur from the Seeds of Doom?

378
00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:23.039
That's right.

379
00:22:23.099 --> 00:22:23.579
Yes.

380
00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:27.900
Yeah, so he's sort of floating around in there.

381
00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:29.640
This is the top of episode three.

382
00:22:29.700 --> 00:22:33.960
Now we do get a little bit more interesting stuff from Salamar here.

383
00:22:34.019 --> 00:22:40.440
Some of them are essentially starting to go mad for no reason, but he has a few interesting comments. issues.

384
00:22:40.500 --> 00:22:41.579
He's got a few issues as well.

385
00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:49.140
When Sarah's saying we've got to go out there and get the doctor, Salamar talks about his command being at risk, he doesn't talk about his crew.

386
00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:50.579
He does, doesn't he?

387
00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:52.259
He's more concerned about his image.

388
00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:55.079
The other thing is, he says 7 men have died.

389
00:22:55.140 --> 00:22:57.299
That's the 7 men of the research party.

390
00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:01.019
He's not counting his own crew amongst dead because that's their job.

391
00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:08.640
He does spend a lot more time apparently doing his hair in a lovely Joanna Lumley Purdy style and he does paying attention to numbers.

392
00:23:08.700 --> 00:23:14.039
Have you noticed how elegantly and precisely quaffed Salamar is in this whole episode?

393
00:23:14.099 --> 00:23:15.839
Everyone's looking a bit unruly and scruffy, but no.

394
00:23:15.900 --> 00:23:18.180
No, he, he, yeah.

395
00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:19.500
He's gone back and got the brush out.

396
00:23:19.559 --> 00:23:24.420
And interestingly, in this bit, and Nathan, I will give you a screen grab to put on the website.

397
00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:32.220
When the oculoid tracker, which I love, the little floating camera, Babylon 5 nicked it for an episode called The Day in the Life.

398
00:23:32.339 --> 00:23:33.599
Did it have a cat's eye?

399
00:23:33.660 --> 00:23:39.779
It had an eye lens in the middle and Bill Mooney of Lost in Space Fame headbutted it.

400
00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:42.240
He wasn't available for this one, was he?

401
00:23:42.299 --> 00:23:43.140
No, sadly not.

402
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:47.339
When the oculoid tracker is looking at the pond after the doctor's fallen in...

403
00:23:47.339 --> 00:23:50.039
There is a face on the screen.

404
00:23:50.099 --> 00:23:57.660
There is a face on the screen that can't possibly come from any of the guest cast because there's no reflection at CSO.

405
00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:00.599
It's a really wispy little face.

406
00:24:00.839 --> 00:24:04.619
And it's quite clear to see that David...

407
00:24:04.619 --> 00:24:06.000
Hancock's future career.

408
00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:09.000
The ghost of Bill Hartnell.

409
00:24:09.059 --> 00:24:14.880
The only thing I could think of is David Maloney is trying to put in like a distorted reflection of Michael Wisher, but then where's Prentice Hank?

410
00:24:14.940 --> 00:24:16.259
Not a beautiful fan. and Ewan.

411
00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:17.519
But I don't think it's that.

412
00:24:17.579 --> 00:24:20.099
I think it's some kind of some kind of glitch.

413
00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:21.900
Do you think it's a woo-woo feedback?

414
00:24:21.900 --> 00:24:23.339
It goes to the machine.

415
00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:23.640
Yeah.

416
00:24:23.700 --> 00:24:25.859
It's quite, it's quite scary.

417
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:27.299
Can we put a pickup of that?

418
00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:28.680
would love to see that.

419
00:24:28.740 --> 00:24:30.000
I do find it.

420
00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:31.740
Because I've only seen this story so few times.

421
00:24:31.980 --> 00:24:37.140
I do find that one area this story succeeds in is atmosphere.

422
00:24:37.140 --> 00:24:45.480
The soundscape and the forest set design and the sound effects for the monster.

423
00:24:45.539 --> 00:24:51.660
I don't think the anti-man Sorensen monster is particularly well realised, as Rob said at the time.

424
00:24:51.720 --> 00:24:54.599
Werewolves, why is it always bleeping werewolves?

425
00:24:54.660 --> 00:24:59.339
Well, I mean, it's Jekyll and Hyde, and you kind of think, why even really bother doing that?

426
00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:02.819
And what does it have to do with what's gone on before?

427
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:06.359
It does just seem to be to sort of disconnected halves of the story.

428
00:25:06.420 --> 00:25:12.660
Yeah, for me, I think that the major failing of the story isn't what we've touched on with the acting and it isn't even really the scripts.

429
00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:14.099
It's the monster itself.

430
00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:18.779
It should have remained, the anti-Guia principle, as it originally was.

431
00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:21.359
The planet was the monster.

432
00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:29.700
So the existential threat of just the sacerations and maybe the leaves being turned up a knob and going a brighter red when the monster moved through.

433
00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:31.500
That, I think, would have been really interesting.

434
00:25:31.559 --> 00:25:36.480
We really didn't need a shower curtain, blobby man in reflection.

435
00:25:36.539 --> 00:25:38.640
I loved it as a kid, though.

436
00:25:38.700 --> 00:25:39.359
Yeah, that's good.

437
00:25:39.420 --> 00:25:41.940
Interestingly, when I when I was a kid.

438
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:47.759
Because of course, when you're a child, it doesn't matter if you're seeing something that was made yesterday or you're seeing something that was made 20 years ago.

439
00:25:47.819 --> 00:25:50.339
As a child, it's all together in one place.

440
00:25:50.519 --> 00:25:53.160
So I had Planet of Evil as a kid.

441
00:25:53.220 --> 00:26:01.140
And my cousin had a Sega master system, which was a video game console, which came in with a built-in game called Alex Kidd in Miracle World.

442
00:26:01.259 --> 00:26:08.579
And one of the enemies in Alex Kidd in Miracle World is this giant headed frog that swims up and down and it's got 2 bulbous eyes coming out each side.

443
00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:15.180
The anti-matter monster looks like that frog from Alex Kidd in Miracle World.

444
00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:17.640
So I kind of took that as a video game reference.

445
00:26:17.700 --> 00:26:18.839
What I think it looks like.

446
00:26:18.900 --> 00:26:25.799
I think it looks like a fomasi that's crash landed on the planet. is haunting Zeta Minor ever afterwards.

447
00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:33.539
You see, for Nathan and I, Brendan, hearing you tell these stories of video games, it's like we've dived into a mega spa and come out in an alternate universe.

448
00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:36.000
Whole other world.

449
00:26:36.059 --> 00:26:40.980
I will once again put up a screen grab of the giant frog from Alex Kidd in America.

450
00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:43.200
I haven't moved away from Pong and Tetris.

451
00:26:43.319 --> 00:26:45.539
I'm still in 1979 playing pong.

452
00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:46.859
This isn't that far off.

453
00:26:46.920 --> 00:26:49.259
The game was made in 1986, I think.

454
00:26:49.319 --> 00:26:51.420
So that's like 10 years on from Pong.

455
00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:54.960
But I keep coming back to Prentice Hancock, and I do think...

456
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:56.160
Yeah, we do butt, though, don't we?

457
00:26:56.220 --> 00:26:57.539
Is this his last ever performance?

458
00:26:58.140 --> 00:27:00.420
No, no, it's the 2nd last...

459
00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:02.039
I want it years too.

460
00:27:02.099 --> 00:27:04.019
I want to come back to Brendan's shine in that one.

461
00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:08.700
Because I think the character of Salamar embodies what is wrong with the story.

462
00:27:08.819 --> 00:27:11.640
And I don't I don't think it's Prentice's fault.

463
00:27:11.700 --> 00:27:13.200
I don't blame Prentice.

464
00:27:13.380 --> 00:27:14.940
He does the best with a pretty slight job.

465
00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:16.140
I do.

466
00:27:16.140 --> 00:27:19.440
I like the idea of the rivalry between him and the Shinsu.

467
00:27:19.500 --> 00:27:20.700
Yes, I love that mentor.

468
00:27:20.759 --> 00:27:23.339
The reversal of it. very Luke Skywalker...

469
00:27:23.460 --> 00:27:23.759
Yeah, yeah.

470
00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:24.779
Obi-Wan actually, isn't it?

471
00:27:24.839 --> 00:27:26.039
Vashinski is trying to help.

472
00:27:26.099 --> 00:27:28.440
Vashinski is never trying to undermine his authority.

473
00:27:28.500 --> 00:27:31.500
Yeah, and he's never pushing his own agenda.

474
00:27:31.559 --> 00:27:35.279
He's never about his own vanity or on his own role. yeah.

475
00:27:35.339 --> 00:27:39.359
And I mean, the problem comes from that when...

476
00:27:39.359 --> 00:27:43.259
Salamar finally breaks, it just happens too quickly.

477
00:27:43.319 --> 00:27:44.579
There hasn't been enough leader.

478
00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:54.359
Like, he's kind of barked at Visinsky a few times, but at the same time, you can imagine that it's more of a telling someone off for breaking the chain of command by giving an order without his.

479
00:27:54.420 --> 00:28:03.299
Yeah, both Trek and TNG, and maybe more tellingly next generation, managed to do exactly the same scenario many, many times over in the space of 45 minutes.

480
00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:07.740
So why are we not able to get that character arc correct in 4 episodes?

481
00:28:07.799 --> 00:28:08.700
Absolutely.

482
00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:21.660
And you could still have Salamar end up at the same place at the end. without having to weaken the character because I do think his going mad weakens the character and weakens the way that Prentice is playing it.

483
00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:23.220
Because he should be mad.

484
00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:27.359
I think he should still be cogent and it's like narcissism of the Nazis.

485
00:28:27.420 --> 00:28:29.160
That's a Stalek story we never got to see.

486
00:28:29.220 --> 00:28:30.660
It's a character flaw, not a madness.

487
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:32.819
I just think it's stupid.

488
00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:34.980
I think it's a way of like upping mistakes.

489
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:36.059
I don't think anything.

490
00:28:36.059 --> 00:28:37.559
Have you met Harrison before?

491
00:28:37.619 --> 00:28:42.660
No, it's nothing thoughts being given to these characters at all, as far as I can see.

492
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:43.440
It seems like...

493
00:28:43.500 --> 00:28:44.819
I think that's a fair call, actually.

494
00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:47.099
Lewis Marx has just thought in episode three.

495
00:28:47.160 --> 00:28:48.240
You know what?

496
00:28:48.299 --> 00:28:50.940
We've already got a monster and we've got a villain in anti-man.

497
00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:55.920
If I throw in another villain, it's just going to become even bigger and it's like, no, it doesn't work that way.

498
00:28:55.980 --> 00:28:58.259
It's like, I'm making a cake and I like eggs.

499
00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:00.599
If I throw in another egg, the cake will be even better.

500
00:29:00.660 --> 00:29:04.019
No, it won't necessarily. know that here at the podcast.

501
00:29:04.140 --> 00:29:04.740
Exactly.

502
00:29:04.980 --> 00:29:14.700
What I think should have happened in episode 4 is that Salamar should have still grabbed the proton accelerator or whatever it is.

503
00:29:15.779 --> 00:29:17.519
So, no, that's the thing the doctor's got.

504
00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:18.420
Spectral accelerator.

505
00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:18.960
I don't know.

506
00:29:19.019 --> 00:29:21.000
And he should have still...

507
00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:22.799
Betrum's pursuit thingy.

508
00:29:22.859 --> 00:29:24.059
No, it is a proton accelerator.

509
00:29:24.119 --> 00:29:36.900
Yeah, and pretty much he has his Captain A ha moment of, you know, I'm going to hunt down this monster and then Vashinski, you're finished in the space fleet. when actually he should have been motivated more as Scott of the Antarctic.

510
00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:37.619
It should have been.

511
00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:40.680
He's been going on about his command and how proud he is of his command.

512
00:29:40.740 --> 00:29:44.640
He should have had the chance to prove that by saying, I'm going to sacrifice myself.

513
00:29:44.700 --> 00:29:46.200
So this mission will succeed.

514
00:29:46.259 --> 00:29:47.700
And you know what?

515
00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:54.660
That's still a slightly mad thing to do, and you could have still had it slightly unhinged, but it would have redeemed the character somewhat.

516
00:29:54.720 --> 00:30:00.180
Now, despite what you may hear, that's not an antimatter monster, and he'd be very hurt to be called so.

517
00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:01.140
It's Todd.

518
00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:03.779
He's looking surprisingly well for his age, but...

519
00:30:03.779 --> 00:30:05.279
Fry crotchety of alert.

520
00:30:05.339 --> 00:30:05.819
He is.

521
00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:06.660
Yeah, yeah.

522
00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:08.279
Well, guys, it's just me.

523
00:30:08.339 --> 00:30:10.319
It's not the anti-matter monster.

524
00:30:10.380 --> 00:30:14.099
Frederick Jager returns as Professor Sorenson.

525
00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:25.259
I never liked Professor Sorenson, and I was really surprised that at the end of the show, the anti-matter monster actually allows him to live.

526
00:30:25.319 --> 00:30:29.160
Yet he's the cause of so many deaths.

527
00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:32.819
Do you think he should have lived or died?

528
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:34.440
Oh.

529
00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:38.220
My space giant bubble is picking up some sort of signal.

530
00:30:38.279 --> 00:30:42.779
Oh, it's an SOS, and it's coming from Mars.

531
00:30:42.900 --> 00:30:44.579
I must investigate.

532
00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:53.579
Because we then have that very uncomfortable moment at the end where Salamar's been killed off, but Sorenson survives.

533
00:30:53.640 --> 00:30:54.299
Yeah.

534
00:30:54.299 --> 00:30:56.640
I think you've really hit on something there.

535
00:30:56.700 --> 00:31:16.140
If this story was drawing more on the actual histories of Mawson and Scott of the Antarctic, and there were certainly plenty of those films going around in on television and in the cinema, in the 50s and 60s in Britain and Australia, much more interesting a take because this is really one of those South Paul expedition stories that goes horribly, horribly wrong.

536
00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:17.880
We all end up eating K 9.

537
00:31:17.940 --> 00:31:19.859
You know, you know why?

538
00:31:19.859 --> 00:31:20.759
survives, though.

539
00:31:20.819 --> 00:31:32.579
Philip Hinchcliffe steps in and says that the death of Sorenson, where he originally gets lost in the pit forever, was to Green and Bleak, and it's kind of like, where was where were you, Mr. Hinchcliffe last year?

540
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:36.180
We were being threatened by Nazis every week.

541
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:37.500
You know what I mean?

542
00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:39.779
tea time in children's television.

543
00:31:39.839 --> 00:31:43.319
So he had he got religion suddenly about being too grim.

544
00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:46.559
How do you feel that ends up, though, with Sorenson being redeemed?

545
00:31:46.680 --> 00:31:55.140
I like that the doctor kind of puts him on a different paths both to keep the planet safe, to keep Sorenson safe and to save their culture.

546
00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:58.799
I don't I don't think Sorenson should have survived.

547
00:31:58.859 --> 00:32:04.740
It undermines when it undermines when the doctor says we are scientists and we must take responsibility for our actions.

548
00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:08.220
Hinchcliffe's decision there is very is very questionable.

549
00:32:08.279 --> 00:32:12.240
It's possibly, it's possibly geni-laired award-winning, I have to say.

550
00:32:12.299 --> 00:32:23.339
I don't feel that this story can possibly be turning up at this point in the season because surely he's just filmed brain of morbidness and looking at this, thinking, oh, I think we went a bit far.

551
00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:24.539
But he didn't.

552
00:32:24.660 --> 00:32:26.339
It's before.

553
00:32:26.460 --> 00:32:38.700
I mean, I suppose the other thing is, um, if Sorenson doesn't survive, there is no, there is no one to back up Vishinsky story when he comes back with the ship with most of the crew dead.

554
00:32:38.759 --> 00:32:53.640
I actually need someone to give the lesson to about power, you know, like this is about upsetting the very balance of nature and transgressing, you know, the book boundaries of the universe in order to get power.

555
00:32:53.819 --> 00:32:57.720
And so the doctor has to kind of step in and fix that.

556
00:32:57.779 --> 00:33:04.920
And so he does that by giving Sorenson that lecture about, you know, kinetic potential of planetary motion.

557
00:33:04.980 --> 00:33:10.440
And I quite like the fact that Sorenson's a little humbled and a little disoriented by what he's been through.

558
00:33:10.500 --> 00:33:12.660
What about the doctor and Sarah in this one?

559
00:33:12.779 --> 00:33:32.579
Well, you know, like one of the reasons that we like this series, I think, or that we have like this series, is they're at the top of their game, but this is actually the 1st time ever. that the show has just had a male and female lead and no other semi-regular companion.

560
00:33:32.579 --> 00:33:33.599
Yeah, yeah, you're right.

561
00:33:33.660 --> 00:33:40.920
Unit's gone at the very beginning of the next story, we're throwing unit, you know, out the airlock and we'll talk about that next week.

562
00:33:40.980 --> 00:33:47.579
And so, although we think it's normal for the doctor to travel with a young woman and that's all we have.

563
00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:49.440
Well, it's in fact, is it normal?

564
00:33:49.500 --> 00:33:52.200
Well, it's, yeah, no, that it's weird.

565
00:33:52.259 --> 00:33:55.319
But it's in fact something we've never had before.

566
00:33:55.380 --> 00:33:58.079
And I actually think that it impairs.

567
00:33:58.079 --> 00:34:04.440
Except before the cameras ever started to roll, which is why I feel, or we could look at Quinas, couldn't we?

568
00:34:04.500 --> 00:34:11.039
Yeah, which is like the Sarah is the doctor's granddaughter in apotheosis, which is why he should never snog them.

569
00:34:11.099 --> 00:34:12.780
Stephen Moffatt.

570
00:34:12.840 --> 00:34:14.460
It's been a while since you've said that.

571
00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:15.960
Don't just blame Moffat.

572
00:34:16.019 --> 00:34:16.739
Russell started it.

573
00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:19.079
Actually, Philip Siegel started it to be fair.

574
00:34:19.139 --> 00:34:21.539
Yeah, Philip Siegel has a lot to answer for.

575
00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:22.679
It's deep.

576
00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:24.780
Such as where Spielberg?

577
00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:25.320
Yes.

578
00:34:25.380 --> 00:34:32.159
The problem is that it impedes world building, but they're in their little cocoon, aren't they?

579
00:34:32.219 --> 00:34:38.099
Yeah, now the adventures become like a disconnected series of things that could happen in any order.

580
00:34:38.159 --> 00:34:42.900
There's no, you know, world to go back to. a really good point.

581
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:47.639
The Avengers, which is the closest thing we can think of in many ways to this.

582
00:34:47.699 --> 00:34:53.099
It wasn't that long ago in television history, either, that we had Stephen Steven, his lady.

583
00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:55.019
But they had the home counties.

584
00:34:55.079 --> 00:35:06.239
It was always in the safe place of a recognisable place, just like Pertley's unit years, where odd things would occur within the safety of the home counties.

585
00:35:06.300 --> 00:35:08.460
But here, we don't even have.

586
00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:16.139
So there was always a cyclorama, if you like, of recognisability and the characters, therefore, were part of our world.

587
00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:20.219
So we were the Avengers were somehow in between reality and dissonance.

588
00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:26.519
But whereas here, it's simply like you've thrown four-dimensional figures into a three-dimensional space.

589
00:35:26.579 --> 00:35:28.260
We don't fit into it at all.

590
00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:33.539
We are no longer reflected in the character of Sarah, Sarah, has not been one of us for a long time.

591
00:35:33.599 --> 00:35:44.099
Yeah, yeah, a big problem about this dual lead situation, and I'll be talking about this more next story, is Sarah starts losing her humanity.

592
00:35:44.219 --> 00:35:46.440
Do you think she becomes callous?

593
00:35:46.500 --> 00:35:53.460
No, the thing I wouldn't quite use that word, but yeah, there is a loss of empathy, I think.

594
00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:55.320
For the other characters.

595
00:35:55.380 --> 00:35:56.280
I think so.

596
00:35:56.400 --> 00:36:00.179
I think it's what Jackie fears for Rose in Army of Ghosts.

597
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:00.780
Yes.

598
00:36:00.780 --> 00:36:01.500
Yeah, yeah.

599
00:36:01.500 --> 00:36:03.539
Where she's a woman.

600
00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:08.820
You know, she'll be on a moon or an asteroid or in a market somewhere and she won't be Rose Tyler anymore.

601
00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:11.940
And I just think she stops becoming a recognisable character.

602
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:15.840
Look, I'm not a big fan of Peter Davidson's characters.

603
00:36:15.900 --> 00:36:19.920
I don't like, I like Tegan, but I don't like...

604
00:36:20.099 --> 00:36:22.199
Oh, I thought we were talking about Peter Davidson's characters.

605
00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:24.059
Sorry, the doctor.

606
00:36:24.119 --> 00:36:27.119
Yeah, Oliver has very peculiar practice.

607
00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:31.860
That character in The Tomorrow People with a Duslem pin.

608
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:32.639
Oh, God.

609
00:36:32.699 --> 00:36:35.340
No, not Davison on tomorrow, people.

610
00:36:35.400 --> 00:36:35.639
Please.

611
00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:37.260
So yes, I agree with you.

612
00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:38.639
I'm not fond of Davidson's characters.

613
00:36:38.699 --> 00:36:41.639
I think I may have meant to say companions.

614
00:36:42.539 --> 00:36:44.639
Is that what he calls him?

615
00:36:44.699 --> 00:36:53.219
But, but there is an attempt at world building and stories do have a consequence beyond their sort of figure. and the stories are terrible.

616
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:53.940
Do you know what I mean?

617
00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:56.219
But can't you looking forward to that?

618
00:36:56.280 --> 00:36:58.739
But the world building.

619
00:36:58.800 --> 00:37:03.000
There's an attempt at world building and I really, really miss that whenever it's just the doctor.

620
00:37:03.059 --> 00:37:04.199
I agree. companion.

621
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:10.619
And, you know, the most recent series of Doctor Who, as we record is series 8.

622
00:37:11.159 --> 00:37:15.300
And, you know, it is just Capaldi and Jenna Coleman.

623
00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:19.440
But there was Danny. anchoring it and there was...

624
00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:22.860
And Cole Hill students coming along and some of those other kids.

625
00:37:22.860 --> 00:37:23.880
And they were really trying.

626
00:37:23.940 --> 00:37:27.719
It felt a bit tenuous, but at least Moffatt was recognising that that needs to be there.

627
00:37:27.780 --> 00:37:30.960
And of course it was a huge feature of Russell's Doctor Who.

628
00:37:31.019 --> 00:37:35.639
And so for the next little while. you know what I mean?

629
00:37:35.699 --> 00:37:40.500
For the next few years, in fact, for the rest of Tom's time until season 18, really.

630
00:37:40.619 --> 00:37:44.519
That's going to be the model and I'm not a big fan of it.

631
00:37:47.579 --> 00:37:48.659
I just dropped something.

632
00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:49.199
Did you hear that?

633
00:37:49.260 --> 00:37:50.519
It was a shock.

634
00:37:50.579 --> 00:37:53.519
Actually, let's have a moment, Brendan.

635
00:37:53.579 --> 00:37:54.420
I actually agree with Nathan.

636
00:37:55.199 --> 00:37:58.320
On that bombshell, dear listener.

637
00:38:10.739 --> 00:38:15.059
That's all the time we have for Planet of Evil, so we will...

638
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:16.860
So is this just our Jenny Laird episode?

639
00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:19.920
Well, we'll find that out in a few weeks time.

640
00:38:19.980 --> 00:38:29.519
Next week we'll be back discussing, and I am right this time, something which is regarded as a classic of the Hinchcliffe era, if not Doctor Who, as a whole.

641
00:38:29.579 --> 00:38:30.960
Nathan, stop grimacing.

642
00:38:31.019 --> 00:38:32.519
It is Pyramids of Mars.

643
00:38:32.820 --> 00:38:43.619
Until then, please find us online at FTE podcast on Twitter, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes, where you can leave a review and flight through entirety.com.

644
00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:49.980
Also, you may want to check out and subscribe to a website called Bond Finger.

645
00:38:50.039 --> 00:38:54.960
There are exciting things coming up there. until... intrusive.

646
00:38:55.019 --> 00:38:56.940
Until next week.

647
00:38:57.000 --> 00:38:58.380
Thank you very much and good night.

648
00:38:58.440 --> 00:38:59.099
Good night.

649
00:38:59.159 --> 00:39:01.500
Why is it pyramids plural?

650
00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:02.760
There's only one pyramid.

651
00:39:03.719 --> 00:39:06.360
That would reflect your entirety.

652
00:39:06.420 --> 00:39:08.940
Nathan doesn't read, Brendan Jones and Richard Stone.

653
00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:14.099
This episode, where Spielberg was recorded on the 5th of July.

654
00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:17.820
The next episode will be released on August 9th.

655
00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:25.019
Did you know that you can now derive power from downloading our doctorary commentary on bondfinger.com?

656
00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:30.780
Are you going to hold it this time or?

657
00:39:30.780 --> 00:39:32.039
Okay, darling.

658
00:39:32.760 --> 00:39:38.579
So, yeah, hold it, hold it about here. aware that I keep brushing it or is that not happening?

659
00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:40.380
I just leave it off.

660
00:39:40.440 --> 00:39:41.460
I couldn't I couldn't hear it.

661
00:39:41.519 --> 00:39:42.300
Oh, okay.

662
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:47.159
I have nothing to say about this.

663
00:39:47.219 --> 00:39:48.900
I have lots.

664
00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:50.039
It's good.