WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 14:43:25 1 00:00:28.620 --> 00:00:32.759 Hello and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor 2 00:00:32.759 --> 00:00:35.820 Who podcast, which is powered by the Kinetic Force of Planetary 3 00:00:35.820 --> 00:00:36.240 Movement. 4 00:00:36.299 --> 00:00:36.960 I'm Brendan. 5 00:00:37.020 --> 00:00:37.799 I'm Nathan. 6 00:00:37.859 --> 00:00:41.039 I'm Janet Lee's sacerating shower curtain in this one. 7 00:00:43.320 --> 00:00:45.960 I just get better and bad. 8 00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:52.140 So we're heading down to Zita Minor on a Merestran probe ship. 9 00:01:01.859 --> 00:01:04.379 How'd you know it's evil? 10 00:01:04.439 --> 00:01:06.659 Just because it's God, you know it. 11 00:01:06.659 --> 00:01:07.200 It's not. 12 00:01:07.260 --> 00:01:09.780 That's one of those cases where, which is what I really like about 13 00:01:09.780 --> 00:01:12.480 Robert Holmes diving right in there, he doesn't really like 14 00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:15.060 monsters that are black and white, although this jungle would have 15 00:01:15.060 --> 00:01:16.980 looked pretty ordinary in black and white. 16 00:01:17.040 --> 00:01:18.599 This isn't a heart more storage anymore, is it? 17 00:01:18.659 --> 00:01:21.540 We've left the 60s nice and proper and still until we get into the 18 00:01:21.540 --> 00:01:24.540 spaceship, which is entirely... 19 00:01:24.599 --> 00:01:27.780 In fact, the Sensorite spaceship looked a hell of a lot better 20 00:01:27.780 --> 00:01:29.879 than this Maristran one, jumping ahead. 21 00:01:30.299 --> 00:01:34.739 I do love that they're all dressed up, however, as the Jackson 5 22 00:01:34.739 --> 00:01:40.260 or indeed Casey and the Sunshine Band as the Marestrum soldiers 23 00:01:40.260 --> 00:01:44.400 because what the hell is that scallop neck on those uniforms? 24 00:01:44.459 --> 00:01:47.640 Is it really designation by the amount of chest hair that you have 25 00:01:47.640 --> 00:01:50.640 which is why Vashinsky should really be running the show because 26 00:01:50.640 --> 00:01:52.379 he's got more chest hair than anybody else. 27 00:01:52.439 --> 00:01:54.719 It's really off-putting too, isn't it? 28 00:01:54.840 --> 00:01:57.000 It's a huge clump of gray chest hair. 29 00:01:57.120 --> 00:01:58.260 Fabulous 70s. 30 00:01:58.319 --> 00:02:00.180 You can see Freddie Mercury was just itching. 31 00:02:00.239 --> 00:02:03.540 You know that later on that year, the Freddy, we always think it's 32 00:02:03.540 --> 00:02:07.980 come before, but there's that queen, sorry, Freddy. 33 00:02:08.039 --> 00:02:09.180 It is the name of your band. 34 00:02:09.240 --> 00:02:14.520 There's that queen video clip where you get that red pullback of 35 00:02:14.520 --> 00:02:18.300 Freddie Jaeger's movie monster when he pulls back and queen use 36 00:02:18.300 --> 00:02:18.479 that. 37 00:02:18.539 --> 00:02:19.500 Is it Bohemian Rhapsody? 38 00:02:19.560 --> 00:02:20.159 It is. 39 00:02:20.219 --> 00:02:22.020 Bohemian Rhapsody uses exactly the same effect. 40 00:02:22.080 --> 00:02:23.280 I'm sure they got it from Doctor Who. 41 00:02:23.340 --> 00:02:25.319 I think you'll find it's Kwanye now. 42 00:02:25.379 --> 00:02:26.759 But let's not... 43 00:02:26.759 --> 00:02:28.139 Let's not discuss... 44 00:02:28.139 --> 00:02:29.219 I don't boil any of that up. 45 00:02:29.280 --> 00:02:31.800 That's not discussed, kind of. 46 00:02:31.860 --> 00:02:33.960 I thought that was JZ. 47 00:02:34.020 --> 00:02:35.580 I always get them. 48 00:02:35.639 --> 00:02:36.960 No, no, it was Kanye. 49 00:02:37.020 --> 00:02:38.520 You're listening to radio 4. 50 00:02:39.659 --> 00:02:45.599 So we are on the planet Zeta Minor, for a story which is quite 51 00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:50.280 polarising with fans, when I used to do Pinot Scaro audios, where 52 00:02:50.280 --> 00:02:53.520 I was playing Doctor Who, was slightly Australian Doctor Who. 53 00:02:53.580 --> 00:02:55.560 My sidekick. 54 00:02:55.620 --> 00:03:02.280 Tom was played by the wonderful Simon Hart, who is a very, very 55 00:03:02.280 --> 00:03:04.800 nice chap and always very positive about Doctor Who. 56 00:03:04.860 --> 00:03:07.979 And as such refers to this story as Planet of Wretched Evil 57 00:03:07.979 --> 00:03:09.479 because he hates it so much. 58 00:03:09.539 --> 00:03:10.740 Really, though? 59 00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:12.360 How can you hate it that much? 60 00:03:12.419 --> 00:03:14.159 Well, what is there to hate? 61 00:03:14.219 --> 00:03:15.840 Have any opinion about it, actually? 62 00:03:15.900 --> 00:03:16.080 actually? 63 00:03:16.139 --> 00:03:18.120 It's really not that great. 64 00:03:18.180 --> 00:03:21.300 See, I think it's a story with wonderful buildup. 65 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:23.580 You have that really atmospheric planet. 66 00:03:23.639 --> 00:03:24.840 Roger Murray leeches back again. 67 00:03:24.840 --> 00:03:28.020 The planet set, we should say. 68 00:03:28.080 --> 00:03:29.699 Look, what happens in this story? 69 00:03:29.759 --> 00:03:34.379 Or do I just say, go and watch Howard Hawk's 1951, the thing, go 70 00:03:34.379 --> 00:03:39.060 and read Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, and then watch Forbidden Planet 71 00:03:39.060 --> 00:03:39.900 and you've got the entire story. 72 00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:41.219 Yeah, yeah. 73 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:45.300 The story itself is a hodgepodge of different ideas. 74 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:49.319 This is probably Hinchcliffe and Holmes taking old ideas and 75 00:03:49.319 --> 00:03:50.099 making them new again. 76 00:03:50.159 --> 00:03:53.400 This is probably their worst offender with not actually providing 77 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:55.919 that much new for the idea aside from a new setting. 78 00:03:56.039 --> 00:04:01.139 There wasn't a great deal of anti-master in Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde 79 00:04:01.139 --> 00:04:02.520 though, as far as I can remember. 80 00:04:02.639 --> 00:04:04.740 No, and I was actually thinking of C. sorry? 81 00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:08.819 You had the potion in that, which sort of had the antimatter 82 00:04:08.819 --> 00:04:09.180 effect. 83 00:04:09.240 --> 00:04:12.360 Well, you know, in the 1st script, the planet was actually meant 84 00:04:12.360 --> 00:04:16.319 to be the changeable, sentient creature, which was very Stanislaus 85 00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:17.220 Lem Solaris. 86 00:04:17.339 --> 00:04:20.699 I mean, you get the sense that that, the creature, what, there 87 00:04:20.699 --> 00:04:21.720 wants a creature originally. 88 00:04:21.779 --> 00:04:25.019 But that creature thing is kind of an avatar of the planet or a 89 00:04:25.019 --> 00:04:25.980 representative. 90 00:04:26.040 --> 00:04:26.220 Exactly. 91 00:04:26.279 --> 00:04:27.180 And it was an add-on. 92 00:04:27.240 --> 00:04:28.500 There wasn't going to be a monster suit. 93 00:04:28.560 --> 00:04:30.240 I think it's a crying shame that they did one. 94 00:04:30.300 --> 00:04:33.779 The creature is most scary when it's just the tinkling 95 00:04:33.779 --> 00:04:39.180 tenabulations in the forest and Sarah's eyes stand out on Mobius 96 00:04:39.180 --> 00:04:42.480 stalks and she just has that. is real horror. 97 00:04:42.540 --> 00:04:46.019 This is one of the 1st, I should say, that I knew, and we were so 98 00:04:46.019 --> 00:04:49.800 lucky, dear listener, in the 70s, before you were all born, that 99 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:54.240 we are, in Australia, we got to, we got the target books before, a 100 00:04:54.240 --> 00:04:56.459 good 12 months before the shows aired. 101 00:04:56.519 --> 00:05:00.120 So this is one I remember reading what we called babysitting, which 102 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:03.420 was frying a child on a beach in Australia for 8 hours. 103 00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:06.540 So I'm hiding on freshwater beach, not far from where Nathan grew 104 00:05:06.540 --> 00:05:09.360 up. reading this book and longing to be somewhere dark and cold. 105 00:05:10.259 --> 00:05:14.160 And so I didn't never got the sense of horror from this. 106 00:05:14.220 --> 00:05:17.100 I got that it was one of the Terrence Dix plotters and I've got it 107 00:05:17.100 --> 00:05:19.680 here if we want to pull it out and flash it to the listener. 108 00:05:19.740 --> 00:05:20.459 This makes great radio. 109 00:05:20.579 --> 00:05:24.959 It just really worked as a great traditional SF story and there's 110 00:05:24.959 --> 00:05:28.800 nothing wrong with poaching, the 1950s that gives you a lovely 111 00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:29.939 sheen on your egg yolk. 112 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:34.860 Yeah, I think what really helps it here is that in terms of the 113 00:05:34.860 --> 00:05:38.040 design, and in terms of the writing and in terms of the direction 114 00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:41.699 it's very confident in taking those things, it doesn't attempt to 115 00:05:41.699 --> 00:05:42.240 hide them. 116 00:05:42.300 --> 00:05:43.500 It doesn't attempt to dress them up. 117 00:05:43.560 --> 00:05:47.759 It is saying, yeah, we are doing forbidden planet. 118 00:05:47.819 --> 00:05:50.579 We are doing Dr. Jekyll and Mr. High, I'm used to it. 119 00:05:50.699 --> 00:05:51.480 Better. 120 00:05:51.540 --> 00:05:53.579 The jungle set is so beautiful. 121 00:05:53.639 --> 00:05:55.199 Can I completely disagree? 122 00:05:55.259 --> 00:05:55.800 Really? 123 00:05:56.279 --> 00:05:57.959 Well, there's 2 jungle sets. 124 00:05:58.019 --> 00:05:59.579 I mean, we shoot at Ealing, I think. 125 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:03.000 Yeah, there's the film one with the water and there's water and 126 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:06.899 this red lighting and stuff and I think it looks really, really 127 00:06:06.899 --> 00:06:07.319 great. 128 00:06:07.439 --> 00:06:10.379 And I think the moment you move into the studio it just looks 129 00:06:10.379 --> 00:06:10.920 terrible. 130 00:06:10.980 --> 00:06:18.480 Oh, it exhibits Dr. A. Exhibit A is the pool, you know, that black 131 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:22.860 pool where the walls just look like, you know, no one's ever come 132 00:06:22.860 --> 00:06:25.199 away from Blackpool with anything nice to say, though. 133 00:06:25.259 --> 00:06:28.199 The wolves just look like they're from Omega's powers, you know? 134 00:06:29.699 --> 00:06:31.560 on a quick repaint. 135 00:06:31.620 --> 00:06:32.519 They're terrible. 136 00:06:32.579 --> 00:06:36.480 And then for, then we're off the planet for the 2nd half of it, and 137 00:06:36.480 --> 00:06:40.079 we're in that terrible Morestran spaceship, where some attempt is 138 00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:43.860 being made by, is it David Maloney, so kind of get it lit 139 00:06:43.860 --> 00:06:47.519 interestingly, but it just fails, and it's like the money's run 140 00:06:47.519 --> 00:06:47.759 out. 141 00:06:47.819 --> 00:06:51.540 It is lovely that both Hoover and Gillette have put money into the 142 00:06:51.540 --> 00:06:54.180 design of the Maristan Space Bro, haven't they? 143 00:06:54.240 --> 00:06:58.800 Because it does look like something you'd shave with slash back up 144 00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:00.540 the cat. they had to add. 145 00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:01.980 They had to add a bit onto it. 146 00:07:02.040 --> 00:07:05.939 The lowest bit as you look at the spaceship from top to bottom. 147 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:07.019 This is the model, right? 148 00:07:07.500 --> 00:07:08.699 The lowest bit of the model. 149 00:07:08.759 --> 00:07:11.879 They had to add that little protrusion onto it because they 150 00:07:11.879 --> 00:07:16.319 suddenly realised that the set that had been built in the studio 151 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:19.800 that they climbed down under, looked nothing like the model. 152 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:22.259 As if that's ever mattered in the history of anything. 153 00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:24.720 Surely Hay or Blake 7. 154 00:07:24.779 --> 00:07:28.319 Surely it was just because it looked too much like a 2 litre 155 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:32.939 detergent bottle, you know, and stuck in front of a ceiling. 156 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:34.139 With a safety razor on the front. 157 00:07:34.199 --> 00:07:34.560 Yeah, yeah. 158 00:07:34.620 --> 00:07:35.939 It's terrible. 159 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:37.740 I mean, the money must have run out. 160 00:07:37.800 --> 00:07:40.199 Maybe Roger Murray Leach had splashed out. 161 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:41.459 No, this is the... 162 00:07:41.459 --> 00:07:43.860 That's how you did spaceships in the 70s on every show. 163 00:07:44.339 --> 00:07:48.720 This was the 2nd story to be produced for this production block. 164 00:07:48.779 --> 00:07:52.259 Pyramids of Mars was actually produced first, but always planned 165 00:07:52.259 --> 00:07:53.040 to be afterwards. 166 00:07:53.100 --> 00:07:57.000 And there is a shot in Pyramids of Mars, which I think is a very 167 00:07:57.000 --> 00:07:57.959 strong indication of this. 168 00:07:58.019 --> 00:08:00.540 I will come back to that when we get to Pyramids and Mars. 169 00:08:00.600 --> 00:08:02.519 So yeah, I don't think the money had so much run out. 170 00:08:02.579 --> 00:08:05.519 Perhaps all the money was spent on the jungle and there wasn't as 171 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:07.860 much for the ship or they just wanted the ship to look very 172 00:08:07.860 --> 00:08:09.300 pristine and very... 173 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:12.360 I don't think it looks any better or worse than skybase, for 174 00:08:12.360 --> 00:08:13.379 instance, from the mutants. 175 00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:15.600 I think the uniforms are far worse. 176 00:08:15.720 --> 00:08:17.939 Those horrible scallop net uniforms. 177 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:18.480 And you know what? 178 00:08:18.540 --> 00:08:23.100 Even if you get, even if you get a man in the modern era with a 179 00:08:23.100 --> 00:08:26.399 lovely, huge chest, he still looks stupid in a scallop neck t 180 00:08:25.920 --> 00:08:26.399 shirt. 181 00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:29.639 Scallop neck t-shirts do not work for any man. 182 00:08:29.699 --> 00:08:31.439 Yes, please pay attention to that at home. 183 00:08:31.500 --> 00:08:32.580 Yes, yeah. 184 00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:33.600 Please wouldn't mind. 185 00:08:33.659 --> 00:08:35.100 They really don't, do they? 186 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:35.940 Less is definitely more. 187 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:36.659 Yeah. 188 00:08:36.659 --> 00:08:37.740 But in the 70s. 189 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:39.720 Yeah, has everyone forgotten St. 190 00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:40.559 Robin Williams? 191 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:41.700 Oh, so quickly too soon? 192 00:08:41.759 --> 00:08:45.000 What did more wear, but exactly that shirt? 193 00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:47.580 Yeah, but Mork wasn't exactly the height of fashion. 194 00:08:47.639 --> 00:08:51.480 I mean, it was a bit spunky pants. his little sleeveless bomber 195 00:08:51.480 --> 00:08:54.120 jacket and his... and his... 196 00:08:54.120 --> 00:08:54.840 Sesame Street shirt. 197 00:08:54.899 --> 00:08:55.919 And his floppy hair. 198 00:08:55.980 --> 00:08:58.620 You know, floppy hair doesn't work on everyone, but floppy hair 199 00:08:58.620 --> 00:09:00.419 worked on young Robin Williams. did. 200 00:09:00.419 --> 00:09:00.779 Yeah. 201 00:09:00.840 --> 00:09:02.399 I'm Pam Dorber, it turns out. 202 00:09:02.460 --> 00:09:04.019 You know, I miss Robin Williams. 203 00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:05.820 So do I. Gosh. 204 00:09:05.940 --> 00:09:07.799 He would have been great in this. 205 00:09:07.860 --> 00:09:09.659 As the anti-matter monster. 206 00:09:09.720 --> 00:09:11.879 It was all it's almost Sesame Street, isn't it? 207 00:09:11.879 --> 00:09:13.379 already. 208 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:15.179 He would have been great at Sorenson. 209 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:16.679 He would have been great in the Vashinsky. 210 00:09:16.740 --> 00:09:17.399 He would be great. 211 00:09:17.399 --> 00:09:18.659 Salamar. 212 00:09:19.500 --> 00:09:20.639 We can talk about salamo. 213 00:09:20.700 --> 00:09:21.899 Yes. the problem. 214 00:09:21.960 --> 00:09:22.379 What is it? 215 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:24.299 He's played by Prentice Hamler. 216 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:25.740 He's played by Prince so he's really terrible. 217 00:09:25.860 --> 00:09:30.179 Whom they got as a big deal because, you know, it was terror of 218 00:09:30.179 --> 00:09:35.820 the Zygons that was stealing all of the oompah of Space 1999. 219 00:09:36.179 --> 00:09:40.080 It's Terror of the Zygons, episode 2, where Space 1999 premiered 220 00:09:40.080 --> 00:09:42.000 and the BBC were looking very nervous. 221 00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:44.279 Very nervous indeed. 222 00:09:44.340 --> 00:09:45.480 They needn't have been. 223 00:09:45.539 --> 00:09:46.620 No, they needn't. 224 00:09:46.620 --> 00:09:50.220 Mostly because 1999 never got networked, so it never quite picked 225 00:09:50.220 --> 00:09:51.840 up the jewellers. 226 00:09:51.899 --> 00:09:54.659 You can see with a dip in the episode 6. one backup to 11 point 227 00:09:54.659 --> 00:09:57.120 whatever it was for episode 3 of Saigons. 228 00:09:57.179 --> 00:10:01.559 But for this one, getting Prentice Hancock, who was 2IC in the 1st 229 00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:04.500 season of 1999 made a big deal at the whole thing. 230 00:10:04.559 --> 00:10:05.940 It was a big issue. 231 00:10:06.059 --> 00:10:06.659 Yeah. 232 00:10:06.659 --> 00:10:08.460 In the days before that meant anything. 233 00:10:08.519 --> 00:10:12.960 Well, he's not that good, but the dialogue is Thunderbirds without 234 00:10:12.960 --> 00:10:14.159 the, without the laughs. 235 00:10:14.220 --> 00:10:17.519 The weird thing is, what I decided to do with the stories I was 236 00:10:17.519 --> 00:10:20.700 looking at this season was I decided to watch them episode by 237 00:10:20.700 --> 00:10:26.639 episode and for my opinion based on each episode and it's not 238 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:30.779 until episode 3 that Prentice Hancock gets really bad and in 239 00:10:30.779 --> 00:10:33.659 particular his character just takes a lurch out the window. 240 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:38.159 The 1st 2 episodes, I actually think he plays a character who is 241 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:42.000 out of his depth and struggling to maintain control. 242 00:10:42.179 --> 00:10:45.779 I think he plays that very well, and he plays that stress very 243 00:10:45.779 --> 00:10:47.879 well, because sometimes he'll bark at Visinsky, but sometimes 244 00:10:47.879 --> 00:10:48.659 he'll listen to him. 245 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:50.940 So there's an inconsistency there that makes sense. 246 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:55.139 So, you know, I do definitely understand that he's a character who 247 00:10:55.139 --> 00:10:58.379 is out of his depth, then Prentice Hancock viewed him as a 248 00:10:58.379 --> 00:11:00.960 character who only got his command because Daddy was very 249 00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:01.320 powerful. 250 00:11:01.379 --> 00:11:03.179 Does that come across in the script? 251 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:06.360 I think it comes across in Prentice Hancock's performance. 252 00:11:06.419 --> 00:11:08.879 Prentice Hancock has said in later years, he considered the script 253 00:11:08.879 --> 00:11:14.159 quite thin, and I think... that's a that's a that's a that's 254 00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:15.899 coming from Prentice Hancock. 255 00:11:16.379 --> 00:11:18.600 You know, I actually have to say that I think he's an astute 256 00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:23.039 critic because one of the problems with this story is that there 257 00:11:23.039 --> 00:11:25.620 are virtually no recognisable characters at all. 258 00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:27.360 Like Mashinski is... 259 00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:28.919 Shinski shines in this. 260 00:11:28.980 --> 00:11:32.700 Yeah, I'm not just looking all that all that platinum blonde 261 00:11:32.700 --> 00:11:33.179 chest. 262 00:11:33.179 --> 00:11:33.779 No. 263 00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:36.960 But I mean, name one personality trait that he has. 264 00:11:37.019 --> 00:11:37.860 Do you know what I mean? 265 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:40.620 Like he's nice, I guess, but there's really not very much to him. 266 00:11:40.679 --> 00:11:44.460 Sorenson's a little bit more... 267 00:11:44.519 --> 00:11:47.940 Yeah, but you know, like he's a bit more of a recognisable 268 00:11:47.940 --> 00:11:48.299 character. 269 00:11:48.360 --> 00:11:50.879 I like Lewis Marty, although blinking you miss him. 270 00:11:50.940 --> 00:11:53.820 Yeah, Token newsreader from... 271 00:11:53.820 --> 00:11:55.259 And also... 272 00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:56.820 Nice to blink there. 273 00:11:56.879 --> 00:11:58.379 He is too. you. 274 00:11:58.440 --> 00:11:58.740 My goodness. 275 00:11:58.799 --> 00:11:59.279 I'd forgotten. 276 00:11:59.340 --> 00:12:00.899 Because he's old Danny Shipton. 277 00:12:01.139 --> 00:12:04.860 And do you know what other cult role he had, which people will 278 00:12:04.860 --> 00:12:05.940 find very recognisable? 279 00:12:06.059 --> 00:12:07.919 He's the doctor in that faulty tower. 280 00:12:07.980 --> 00:12:10.320 Mr. Faulty, you must get as much rest as you can. 281 00:12:10.860 --> 00:12:12.899 He's in the Germans. 282 00:12:12.899 --> 00:12:17.399 He's the doctor to whom Basil has a very bad reaction. 283 00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:19.740 Let's just leave this. 284 00:12:19.799 --> 00:12:20.580 He's really good in this. 285 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:21.120 Yeah, yeah. 286 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:24.480 And again, they kind of, it's this one where everybody dies now. 287 00:12:25.379 --> 00:12:29.940 But what I quite like is most of the soldiers and the scientific 288 00:12:29.940 --> 00:12:33.059 crew, the actors play them quite naturalistically. 289 00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:36.720 Like they sort of play them like jobs worth. like Dahan is pretty 290 00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:37.919 much just Sergeant Benton. 291 00:12:37.980 --> 00:12:40.980 Actually, Dahan is nearly a character, all that bitching about 292 00:12:40.980 --> 00:12:43.440 carrying things and going... 293 00:12:43.500 --> 00:12:47.039 Dehan, the leader wants us to carry this into the ship and out 294 00:12:47.039 --> 00:12:47.519 again. 295 00:12:47.580 --> 00:12:48.600 Thank you, Michael Wisher. 296 00:12:48.659 --> 00:12:51.240 And my wisher gets a dual role. 297 00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:53.279 Yes, he's Morelli. 298 00:12:53.340 --> 00:12:56.039 Yes, and then he's Ranjit or whatever his name is. 299 00:12:56.100 --> 00:12:59.820 Yes, you're doing a comedy... brains from the new Thunderbirds. 300 00:12:59.879 --> 00:13:03.659 The thing is, they make such a big deal about the split level 301 00:13:03.659 --> 00:13:06.360 effect of this set and how it was so up to the minute. 302 00:13:06.419 --> 00:13:07.919 I'm thinking, oh, come on, boys. 303 00:13:07.980 --> 00:13:11.460 Okay, we know you're trying to mirror the moon-based alpha split 304 00:13:11.460 --> 00:13:12.000 level set. 305 00:13:12.059 --> 00:13:16.919 But space 1979, sick, was the most expensive thing, their episode 306 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:21.000 ever made for television in the history of the medium in 1975 307 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:21.240 six. 308 00:13:21.299 --> 00:13:24.120 Not until roots came along, about 78, 79. 309 00:13:24.299 --> 00:13:27.000 That had Geordie from... 310 00:13:27.059 --> 00:13:27.899 Yes, LeBar Burton. 311 00:13:27.960 --> 00:13:29.759 Otherwise, we wouldn't bother watching it. 312 00:13:29.820 --> 00:13:31.440 But no, it's actually very good. 313 00:13:31.500 --> 00:13:34.559 But yeah, you can't compete visually. 314 00:13:34.620 --> 00:13:37.679 So you have to do it with scripts and then you have to do it with 315 00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:38.159 actors. 316 00:13:38.220 --> 00:13:39.299 And I think the cast is bad. 317 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:44.639 I don't actually think that Salamar is, like, I just can't say the 318 00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:45.419 actor's name out loud. 319 00:13:45.480 --> 00:13:47.399 I guess that Salamo is such so poor. 320 00:13:47.460 --> 00:13:50.759 His his role, his script as it's written, is so bland. 321 00:13:50.820 --> 00:13:52.440 What else is he going to do with it? 322 00:13:52.500 --> 00:13:53.399 Yeah, yeah. 323 00:13:53.460 --> 00:13:55.259 I think the main problem is... 324 00:13:55.500 --> 00:14:02.820 In the 1st 2.5 episodes, all of the tension in his character and 325 00:14:02.820 --> 00:14:05.820 his insecurity is coming from Prentice Hancock's performance. 326 00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:09.299 Now, I will say Prentice Hancock is not the best actor in the 327 00:14:09.299 --> 00:14:09.600 series. 328 00:14:09.659 --> 00:14:11.399 You get a fulsome career afterwards, do you? 329 00:14:12.360 --> 00:14:15.000 But I do think of his 4 Doctor Who appearances. 330 00:14:15.059 --> 00:14:18.840 This is his best performance because he is having to invent it 331 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:22.500 himself and he is getting sort of tension in there and what have 332 00:14:22.500 --> 00:14:22.740 you. 333 00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:26.460 The main problem is because there is no tension ramping up in the 334 00:14:26.460 --> 00:14:31.080 script, when he goes mad at the end of episode 3 and goes with the 335 00:14:31.080 --> 00:14:33.720 realisation that, oh, you know, now we've got to kill the doctor 336 00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:37.919 and Sarah, it comes out of nowhere because initially he's 337 00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:40.860 suspicious of the doctor and Sarah, but then he actually observes 338 00:14:40.860 --> 00:14:42.240 that they know what they're talking about. 339 00:14:42.299 --> 00:14:44.340 So he trusts them to an extent. 340 00:14:44.519 --> 00:14:49.799 Isn't he just an intransigent base commander who goes mad? 341 00:14:49.860 --> 00:14:50.700 Yeah, yeah. 342 00:14:50.820 --> 00:14:51.480 Do you know what I mean? 343 00:14:51.539 --> 00:14:52.919 haven't we seen this 100s of times? 344 00:14:52.980 --> 00:14:54.419 In episode two. 345 00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:56.879 It starts looking like he's leaning back the other direction and 346 00:14:56.879 --> 00:14:59.700 then he just goes full force back and you're like, but this 347 00:14:59.700 --> 00:15:00.600 doesn't make any sense. 348 00:15:00.659 --> 00:15:04.080 Narratively, it's one of those stories that actually needs to be 6 349 00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:08.759 parters, just a 6 parter, just to get its flow. how much fun that 350 00:15:08.759 --> 00:15:09.659 would have been this time. 351 00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:10.620 But not really. 352 00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:13.980 It actually does need that space for development. 353 00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:15.840 I think we're quite glad it didn't bother. 354 00:15:15.899 --> 00:15:21.960 But I do also think that really characterisation is a low point 355 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:24.240 for this episode because even the characterisation of the doctor 356 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:25.500 and Sarah isn't very good. 357 00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:26.940 The rapport is lovely. 358 00:15:27.000 --> 00:15:30.059 Their rapport is lovely, but their motivations within the script 359 00:15:30.059 --> 00:15:34.019 are very strange because we must respond to this distress signal. 360 00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:35.340 They respond to the distress signal. 361 00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:36.179 They get caught. 362 00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:37.320 They get... 363 00:15:37.379 --> 00:15:39.840 Nothing bad's ever happened from responding to it. 364 00:15:39.899 --> 00:15:42.299 Hello, Ridley Scott, you're watching this, aren't you? 365 00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:43.379 They get cool. 366 00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:44.700 They get chucked in a cell, of course. 367 00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:46.139 They decide to escape. 368 00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:48.360 And then when they get caught again. 369 00:15:48.419 --> 00:15:49.740 They say, don't worry, we're here to help. 370 00:15:49.799 --> 00:15:54.000 I have, I found myself thinking, uh, you've just tried to run back 371 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:55.919 to this Hartus and leave everyone to their fate. 372 00:15:55.980 --> 00:15:56.879 You're not there to help. 373 00:15:56.940 --> 00:15:58.200 You're there because you got caught. 374 00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:00.120 Nicely observed. 375 00:16:00.179 --> 00:16:02.399 It doesn't make a lot of sense, does it? 376 00:16:02.460 --> 00:16:04.860 Do you really think that Sarah, in the real universe, in our 377 00:16:04.860 --> 00:16:08.220 universe anyway, would be packing heat before she even steps out 378 00:16:08.220 --> 00:16:08.940 of that blue box? 379 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:12.360 Because really, it's not the 1st time someone's come the nasties 380 00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:13.259 at you, Sarah. 381 00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:15.840 Don't you think she'd be just a little bit? 382 00:16:15.899 --> 00:16:18.960 Okay, you can choose not to carry a gun, but I'm wearing I'm 383 00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:23.879 wearing Sigourney Weaver's exoskeleton for this entire story and 384 00:16:23.879 --> 00:16:25.019 don't you even start? 385 00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:29.340 If she was too stupid to get back in it, you know, like, why 386 00:16:29.340 --> 00:16:30.720 didn't we get back in the tennis thing? 387 00:16:30.779 --> 00:16:35.220 Well, she keeps being told Cassiopeia and Florana and bugger 388 00:16:35.220 --> 00:16:35.460 that. 389 00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:39.000 It's always bright and pier or you know, some slop quarry 390 00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:44.159 somewhere outside Dorset. at unit headquarters. 391 00:16:44.220 --> 00:16:46.500 They've been in South Croydon. 392 00:16:46.620 --> 00:16:48.899 I was just going to say, how bad must Croydon be? 393 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:49.919 Really? 394 00:16:49.980 --> 00:16:54.360 She's off in Zita Minor on the very boundary of our universe. 395 00:16:55.740 --> 00:16:57.179 And it's still better than Croydon. 396 00:16:57.240 --> 00:16:58.919 Thankfully, Liz is wonderful though. 397 00:16:58.980 --> 00:17:02.639 And we get something we didn't mention last week with Zigons, where 398 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:03.960 we had the 1st instance. 399 00:17:04.019 --> 00:17:07.380 This is the 2nd instance of... 400 00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:10.259 Which is an amazing Liz Trump. 401 00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:13.500 That's a real problem for me, and I think maybe you as well, Nathan 402 00:17:13.500 --> 00:17:17.400 with Liz's performance of Sarah Jane Smith, in that it's just too 403 00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:17.579 good. 404 00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:19.079 It's too realistic. 405 00:17:19.140 --> 00:17:22.380 So when she experiences real fear and real horror, it's never the 406 00:17:22.380 --> 00:17:25.619 same as when Joe Grant did, that was still within the realms of 407 00:17:25.619 --> 00:17:27.000 the fun of the show. 408 00:17:27.059 --> 00:17:29.039 This is palpable. 409 00:17:29.099 --> 00:17:31.559 I know she's suffering, and it just makes it much worse. 410 00:17:31.619 --> 00:17:34.740 I don't think Joe ever suffers the sort of things that... 411 00:17:34.740 --> 00:17:36.180 I never did anything as horrible to her. 412 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:38.940 You know that you know that the master might have given her a 413 00:17:38.940 --> 00:17:41.160 slightly inferior brandy had he? 414 00:17:41.940 --> 00:17:45.539 He had a directed a cutting remark. 415 00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:48.480 And that's it, yeah. 416 00:17:48.539 --> 00:17:51.119 They had it easy in them 70s, didn't they? 417 00:17:51.180 --> 00:17:53.160 Not the girl from 1980. 418 00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:56.880 I will say listeners on a related note, if you ever meet big 419 00:17:56.880 --> 00:18:01.259 finishes, Nigel Fairs, he does he does a wonderful impression of 420 00:18:01.259 --> 00:18:03.059 Sarah Jane's can't breathe. 421 00:18:03.180 --> 00:18:05.940 I won't even... how that came about. 422 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:06.599 No. 423 00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:10.440 Cheers, Nigel, if you're listening. 424 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:14.279 There are other things to look at in their story. 425 00:18:14.339 --> 00:18:17.220 There's Hayden Wood who plays O'Hara very briefly. 426 00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:20.339 He's rather pretty to look at and then becomes a desiccated 427 00:18:20.339 --> 00:18:20.880 coconut. 428 00:18:20.940 --> 00:18:22.019 Yeah, I was going to say, not after. 429 00:18:22.140 --> 00:18:23.759 No, no, not after. 430 00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:27.960 It's a bit up the Orinoco, isn't it? 431 00:18:28.019 --> 00:18:32.400 The tribes of the hakawi because there's all that, there's all 432 00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:32.700 that. 433 00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:35.759 Again, we go back to Edwardian stuff, that, you know, the horror 434 00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:41.099 is that you'll be turned into some zombie tribal effigy. 435 00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:42.480 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 436 00:18:42.539 --> 00:18:44.640 Because they still managed to be racist without even trying. 437 00:18:44.700 --> 00:18:45.359 Don't they? 438 00:18:45.420 --> 00:18:48.660 And they try not to be racist here because all the morastians. 439 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:49.799 It must be a human colony. 440 00:18:49.859 --> 00:18:51.839 They all have last names that come from different cultures. 441 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:54.960 Yeah, and they still hint that there's no sense of being earth. 442 00:18:55.019 --> 00:18:56.880 Although they, she does say, oh, we're from Earth. 443 00:18:56.940 --> 00:18:57.839 And he says, that's impossible. 444 00:18:57.900 --> 00:19:00.900 So I'd like to think they're in the year 37,000 or something. 445 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:02.160 I'm not going to get too nerdy about it. 446 00:19:02.220 --> 00:19:05.640 37,166. to do that, didn't you? 447 00:19:05.819 --> 00:19:09.299 And listen, you were thinking exactly the same thought at exactly 448 00:19:09.299 --> 00:19:10.440 the same time, weren't you? 449 00:19:10.500 --> 00:19:11.759 We love you to keep listening. 450 00:19:11.819 --> 00:19:15.119 Oh, also, there's an iTunes thing if you want to comment in case. 451 00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:16.980 Did we mention that? 452 00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:18.839 Yeah, I don't think we've ever said that before. 453 00:19:18.900 --> 00:19:19.140 Go on. 454 00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:19.799 No, no. 455 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:21.779 But guess who else is on the crew? 456 00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:25.079 And doesn't get killed by the alien menace. 457 00:19:25.140 --> 00:19:26.460 It's Terry Walsh. 458 00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:28.680 In fact, he's not dead? 459 00:19:28.740 --> 00:19:30.420 Well, he is by the end. 460 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:31.920 He gets killed by printer's girlfriend. 461 00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:35.759 I think he does get killed by the alien menace, in fact. 462 00:19:35.819 --> 00:19:37.920 I think that... 463 00:19:37.980 --> 00:19:38.940 Did he get killed twice? 464 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:40.140 Yeah, I think he gets killed twice. 465 00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:45.900 There is a scene, I think, in episode 2 where they're all shooting 466 00:19:45.900 --> 00:19:51.299 at the at the creature thing from the outside of the ship, which 467 00:19:51.299 --> 00:19:52.859 is actually a bit of the set that I don't mind. 468 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:55.740 You know, there's that, the sort of outside of the ship set and 469 00:19:55.740 --> 00:19:56.460 they're all shooting. 470 00:19:56.519 --> 00:20:00.059 And I think Terry does a headlong plunge off the side of the 471 00:20:00.059 --> 00:20:00.599 sheet. 472 00:20:00.660 --> 00:20:02.400 Oh, very nicely too, into the thing. 473 00:20:02.460 --> 00:20:03.660 I think that's almost certainly, Terry. 474 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:06.000 It's a little bit hard to see his face, but you do see him before 475 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:06.480 then. 476 00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:09.480 And then later on, he's a guard who is there. 477 00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:10.680 Oh, right. 478 00:20:10.740 --> 00:20:12.900 So Terry Walsh plays twin brothers in this, is what you're 479 00:20:12.900 --> 00:20:13.079 saying. 480 00:20:13.259 --> 00:20:14.339 I think I think that's probably it. 481 00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:18.900 We don't get Terry Walsh. credited as an actor for a long time 482 00:20:18.900 --> 00:20:19.920 after this one. 483 00:20:19.980 --> 00:20:20.759 No, that's true. 484 00:20:20.819 --> 00:20:23.339 He's had his he's had his big role previously where he got to 485 00:20:23.339 --> 00:20:27.059 deliver lines and A line and be A person. 486 00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:30.359 Yeah, he's going to be Mensch later on in Power of Kroll. 487 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:32.160 Yeah, that's right. 488 00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:36.000 He is going to be one of Lady Adraster's guy. 489 00:20:36.420 --> 00:20:36.900 Wolf weeds? 490 00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:37.380 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 491 00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:38.579 One of the wolf weeds, yeah. 492 00:20:38.700 --> 00:20:42.240 But he won't get a sort of credited acting role, although he will 493 00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:44.099 still do some stunt arranging. 494 00:20:44.220 --> 00:20:47.220 Well, we should mention that one of the, have we mentioned this? 495 00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:50.039 One of the reasons that we, apart from the fact that we just think 496 00:20:50.039 --> 00:20:53.940 he's great, is that Terry Walsh's son was kind enough to contact 497 00:20:53.940 --> 00:20:56.700 us at the podcast and say that he's listening. 498 00:20:56.759 --> 00:21:00.240 I think we just worried that we called an episode punching Terry 499 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:01.319 Walsh in the face. 500 00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:05.160 As a description, not an instruction. 501 00:21:05.220 --> 00:21:06.599 I point out once again. 502 00:21:06.660 --> 00:21:09.599 He does do the stunt for Tom in this one as well, falling into the 503 00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:10.619 pit of oblivion. 504 00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:14.039 And I would like to know how Terry was feeling about Tom wanting 505 00:21:14.039 --> 00:21:15.599 to do more of his own stunts. 506 00:21:15.660 --> 00:21:17.339 You see more of that as the season goes on. 507 00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:20.759 Tom starts to do more of his jumping from a great height stunt 508 00:21:20.759 --> 00:21:21.420 stuff. 509 00:21:21.539 --> 00:21:23.579 How did they actually do that thing? 510 00:21:23.700 --> 00:21:25.440 I don't know how they realise the pool? 511 00:21:25.500 --> 00:21:27.359 The pool is obviously black because it's CSO. 512 00:21:27.420 --> 00:21:29.579 Yeah, it's the, it's black drape. 513 00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:30.839 It's actually just black velvet. 514 00:21:30.900 --> 00:21:32.400 They do a bit of CSO as well, though. 515 00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:36.539 It is a CSO drape inside, which is coloured black, which is why 516 00:21:36.539 --> 00:21:38.579 it's a very flat black and there's no reflection. 517 00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:40.799 And yet they might as well have not bothered because it's still 518 00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:41.400 not that interesting. 519 00:21:41.579 --> 00:21:44.160 Whether that's it, that's a terrible sense. 520 00:21:44.220 --> 00:21:47.400 What I really like about it, though, and I don't know if this is 521 00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:51.180 deliberate, of course, I love to think that it's Omega's spa. 522 00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:53.640 Well, that's what I'm saying. 523 00:21:53.700 --> 00:21:56.819 When the doctor falls into it, he's in a black void with swirling 524 00:21:56.819 --> 00:21:59.460 lights just like Pert we was when he was fighting the dark side of 525 00:21:59.460 --> 00:22:00.359 home because mind. 526 00:22:00.420 --> 00:22:04.740 Or travelling from world to world in Inferno, actually. same Yeah 527 00:22:04.740 --> 00:22:05.220 the same difference. 528 00:22:05.579 --> 00:22:08.400 Without Catherine Skill menacing him in, you know, latex. 529 00:22:08.460 --> 00:22:12.059 Jabberwocky And Tom in there, half of it is him. 530 00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:16.380 And half of it, I believe, is Alan Chuntz. 531 00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:18.119 Chunsey was back. 532 00:22:18.180 --> 00:22:22.500 You mean Mr. Humphreys' chauffeur from the Seeds of Doom? 533 00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:23.039 That's right. 534 00:22:23.099 --> 00:22:23.579 Yes. 535 00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:27.900 Yeah, so he's sort of floating around in there. 536 00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:29.640 This is the top of episode three. 537 00:22:29.700 --> 00:22:33.720 Now we do get a little bit more interesting stuff from Salamar 538 00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:33.960 here. 539 00:22:34.019 --> 00:22:38.039 Some of them are essentially starting to go mad for no reason, but 540 00:22:38.039 --> 00:22:40.440 he has a few interesting comments. issues. 541 00:22:40.500 --> 00:22:41.579 He's got a few issues as well. 542 00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:44.880 When Sarah's saying we've got to go out there and get the doctor 543 00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:48.539 Salamar talks about his command being at risk, he doesn't talk 544 00:22:48.539 --> 00:22:49.140 about his crew. 545 00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:50.579 He does, doesn't he? 546 00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:52.259 He's more concerned about his image. 547 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:55.079 The other thing is, he says 7 men have died. 548 00:22:55.140 --> 00:22:57.299 That's the 7 men of the research party. 549 00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:00.839 He's not counting his own crew amongst dead because that's their 550 00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:01.019 job. 551 00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:05.039 He does spend a lot more time apparently doing his hair in a 552 00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:08.339 lovely Joanna Lumley Purdy style and he does paying attention to 553 00:23:08.339 --> 00:23:08.640 numbers. 554 00:23:08.700 --> 00:23:13.319 Have you noticed how elegantly and precisely quaffed Salamar is in 555 00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:14.039 this whole episode? 556 00:23:14.099 --> 00:23:15.839 Everyone's looking a bit unruly and scruffy, but no. 557 00:23:15.900 --> 00:23:18.180 No, he, he, yeah. 558 00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:19.500 He's gone back and got the brush out. 559 00:23:19.559 --> 00:23:23.220 And interestingly, in this bit, and Nathan, I will give you a 560 00:23:23.220 --> 00:23:24.420 screen grab to put on the website. 561 00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:29.339 When the oculoid tracker, which I love, the little floating camera 562 00:23:29.339 --> 00:23:32.220 Babylon 5 nicked it for an episode called The Day in the Life. 563 00:23:32.339 --> 00:23:33.599 Did it have a cat's eye? 564 00:23:33.660 --> 00:23:38.640 It had an eye lens in the middle and Bill Mooney of Lost in Space 565 00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:39.779 Fame headbutted it. 566 00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:42.240 He wasn't available for this one, was he? 567 00:23:42.299 --> 00:23:43.140 No, sadly not. 568 00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:46.619 When the oculoid tracker is looking at the pond after the doctor's 569 00:23:46.619 --> 00:23:47.339 fallen in... 570 00:23:47.339 --> 00:23:50.039 There is a face on the screen. 571 00:23:50.099 --> 00:23:53.759 There is a face on the screen that can't possibly come from any of 572 00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:57.660 the guest cast because there's no reflection at CSO. 573 00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:00.599 It's a really wispy little face. 574 00:24:00.839 --> 00:24:04.619 And it's quite clear to see that David... 575 00:24:04.619 --> 00:24:06.000 Hancock's future career. 576 00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:09.000 The ghost of Bill Hartnell. 577 00:24:09.059 --> 00:24:11.579 The only thing I could think of is David Maloney is trying to put 578 00:24:11.579 --> 00:24:14.099 in like a distorted reflection of Michael Wisher, but then where's 579 00:24:14.099 --> 00:24:14.880 Prentice Hank? 580 00:24:14.940 --> 00:24:16.259 Not a beautiful fan. and Ewan. 581 00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:17.519 But I don't think it's that. 582 00:24:17.579 --> 00:24:20.099 I think it's some kind of some kind of glitch. 583 00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:21.900 Do you think it's a woo-woo feedback? 584 00:24:21.900 --> 00:24:23.339 It goes to the machine. 585 00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:23.640 Yeah. 586 00:24:23.700 --> 00:24:25.859 It's quite, it's quite scary. 587 00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:27.299 Can we put a pickup of that? 588 00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:28.680 would love to see that. 589 00:24:28.740 --> 00:24:30.000 I do find it. 590 00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:31.740 Because I've only seen this story so few times. 591 00:24:31.980 --> 00:24:37.140 I do find that one area this story succeeds in is atmosphere. 592 00:24:37.140 --> 00:24:44.940 The soundscape and the forest set design and the sound effects for 593 00:24:44.940 --> 00:24:45.480 the monster. 594 00:24:45.539 --> 00:24:49.380 I don't think the anti-man Sorensen monster is particularly well 595 00:24:49.380 --> 00:24:51.660 realised, as Rob said at the time. 596 00:24:51.720 --> 00:24:54.599 Werewolves, why is it always bleeping werewolves? 597 00:24:54.660 --> 00:24:57.779 Well, I mean, it's Jekyll and Hyde, and you kind of think, why 598 00:24:57.779 --> 00:24:59.339 even really bother doing that? 599 00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:02.819 And what does it have to do with what's gone on before? 600 00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:06.119 It does just seem to be to sort of disconnected halves of the 601 00:25:06.119 --> 00:25:06.359 story. 602 00:25:06.420 --> 00:25:09.480 Yeah, for me, I think that the major failing of the story isn't 603 00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:12.180 what we've touched on with the acting and it isn't even really the 604 00:25:12.180 --> 00:25:12.660 scripts. 605 00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:14.099 It's the monster itself. 606 00:25:14.160 --> 00:25:18.539 It should have remained, the anti-Guia principle, as it originally 607 00:25:18.539 --> 00:25:18.779 was. 608 00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:21.359 The planet was the monster. 609 00:25:21.480 --> 00:25:25.680 So the existential threat of just the sacerations and maybe the 610 00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:28.980 leaves being turned up a knob and going a brighter red when the 611 00:25:28.980 --> 00:25:29.700 monster moved through. 612 00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:31.500 That, I think, would have been really interesting. 613 00:25:31.559 --> 00:25:36.480 We really didn't need a shower curtain, blobby man in reflection. 614 00:25:36.539 --> 00:25:38.640 I loved it as a kid, though. 615 00:25:38.700 --> 00:25:39.359 Yeah, that's good. 616 00:25:39.420 --> 00:25:41.940 Interestingly, when I when I was a kid. 617 00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:44.039 Because of course, when you're a child, it doesn't matter if 618 00:25:44.039 --> 00:25:46.319 you're seeing something that was made yesterday or you're seeing 619 00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:47.759 something that was made 20 years ago. 620 00:25:47.819 --> 00:25:50.339 As a child, it's all together in one place. 621 00:25:50.519 --> 00:25:53.160 So I had Planet of Evil as a kid. 622 00:25:53.220 --> 00:25:57.000 And my cousin had a Sega master system, which was a video game 623 00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:00.599 console, which came in with a built-in game called Alex Kidd in 624 00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:01.140 Miracle World. 625 00:26:01.259 --> 00:26:04.680 And one of the enemies in Alex Kidd in Miracle World is this giant 626 00:26:04.680 --> 00:26:07.859 headed frog that swims up and down and it's got 2 bulbous eyes 627 00:26:07.859 --> 00:26:08.579 coming out each side. 628 00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:14.640 The anti-matter monster looks like that frog from Alex Kidd in 629 00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:15.180 Miracle World. 630 00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:17.640 So I kind of took that as a video game reference. 631 00:26:17.700 --> 00:26:18.839 What I think it looks like. 632 00:26:18.900 --> 00:26:21.900 I think it looks like a fomasi that's crash landed on the planet 633 00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:25.799 is haunting Zeta Minor ever afterwards. 634 00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:29.400 You see, for Nathan and I, Brendan, hearing you tell these stories 635 00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:32.519 of video games, it's like we've dived into a mega spa and come out 636 00:26:32.519 --> 00:26:33.539 in an alternate universe. 637 00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:36.000 Whole other world. 638 00:26:36.059 --> 00:26:40.019 I will once again put up a screen grab of the giant frog from Alex 639 00:26:40.019 --> 00:26:40.980 Kidd in America. 640 00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:43.200 I haven't moved away from Pong and Tetris. 641 00:26:43.319 --> 00:26:45.539 I'm still in 1979 playing pong. 642 00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:46.859 This isn't that far off. 643 00:26:46.920 --> 00:26:49.259 The game was made in 1986, I think. 644 00:26:49.319 --> 00:26:51.420 So that's like 10 years on from Pong. 645 00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:54.960 But I keep coming back to Prentice Hancock, and I do think... 646 00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:56.160 Yeah, we do butt, though, don't we? 647 00:26:56.220 --> 00:26:57.539 Is this his last ever performance? 648 00:26:58.140 --> 00:27:00.420 No, no, it's the 2nd last... 649 00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:02.039 I want it years too. 650 00:27:02.099 --> 00:27:04.019 I want to come back to Brendan's shine in that one. 651 00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:08.339 Because I think the character of Salamar embodies what is wrong 652 00:27:08.339 --> 00:27:08.700 with the story. 653 00:27:08.819 --> 00:27:11.640 And I don't I don't think it's Prentice's fault. 654 00:27:11.700 --> 00:27:13.200 I don't blame Prentice. 655 00:27:13.380 --> 00:27:14.940 He does the best with a pretty slight job. 656 00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:16.140 I do. 657 00:27:16.140 --> 00:27:19.440 I like the idea of the rivalry between him and the Shinsu. 658 00:27:19.500 --> 00:27:20.700 Yes, I love that mentor. 659 00:27:20.759 --> 00:27:23.339 The reversal of it. very Luke Skywalker... 660 00:27:23.460 --> 00:27:23.759 Yeah, yeah. 661 00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:24.779 Obi-Wan actually, isn't it? 662 00:27:24.839 --> 00:27:26.039 Vashinski is trying to help. 663 00:27:26.099 --> 00:27:28.440 Vashinski is never trying to undermine his authority. 664 00:27:28.500 --> 00:27:31.500 Yeah, and he's never pushing his own agenda. 665 00:27:31.559 --> 00:27:35.279 He's never about his own vanity or on his own role. yeah. 666 00:27:35.339 --> 00:27:39.359 And I mean, the problem comes from that when... 667 00:27:39.359 --> 00:27:43.259 Salamar finally breaks, it just happens too quickly. 668 00:27:43.319 --> 00:27:44.579 There hasn't been enough leader. 669 00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:47.700 Like, he's kind of barked at Visinsky a few times, but at the same 670 00:27:47.700 --> 00:27:51.119 time, you can imagine that it's more of a telling someone off for 671 00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:54.359 breaking the chain of command by giving an order without his. 672 00:27:54.420 --> 00:27:58.259 Yeah, both Trek and TNG, and maybe more tellingly next generation 673 00:27:58.259 --> 00:28:02.099 managed to do exactly the same scenario many, many times over in 674 00:28:02.099 --> 00:28:03.299 the space of 45 minutes. 675 00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:07.380 So why are we not able to get that character arc correct in 4 676 00:28:07.380 --> 00:28:07.740 episodes? 677 00:28:07.799 --> 00:28:08.700 Absolutely. 678 00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:12.660 And you could still have Salamar end up at the same place at the 679 00:28:12.660 --> 00:28:17.339 end. without having to weaken the character because I do think his 680 00:28:17.339 --> 00:28:21.299 going mad weakens the character and weakens the way that Prentice 681 00:28:21.299 --> 00:28:21.660 is playing it. 682 00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:23.220 Because he should be mad. 683 00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:26.819 I think he should still be cogent and it's like narcissism of the 684 00:28:26.819 --> 00:28:27.359 Nazis. 685 00:28:27.420 --> 00:28:29.160 That's a Stalek story we never got to see. 686 00:28:29.220 --> 00:28:30.660 It's a character flaw, not a madness. 687 00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:32.819 I just think it's stupid. 688 00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:34.980 I think it's a way of like upping mistakes. 689 00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:36.059 I don't think anything. 690 00:28:36.059 --> 00:28:37.559 Have you met Harrison before? 691 00:28:37.619 --> 00:28:41.519 No, it's nothing thoughts being given to these characters at all 692 00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:42.660 as far as I can see. 693 00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:43.440 It seems like... 694 00:28:43.500 --> 00:28:44.819 I think that's a fair call, actually. 695 00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:47.099 Lewis Marx has just thought in episode three. 696 00:28:47.160 --> 00:28:48.240 You know what? 697 00:28:48.299 --> 00:28:50.940 We've already got a monster and we've got a villain in anti-man. 698 00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:54.000 If I throw in another villain, it's just going to become even 699 00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:55.920 bigger and it's like, no, it doesn't work that way. 700 00:28:55.980 --> 00:28:58.259 It's like, I'm making a cake and I like eggs. 701 00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:00.599 If I throw in another egg, the cake will be even better. 702 00:29:00.660 --> 00:29:04.019 No, it won't necessarily. know that here at the podcast. 703 00:29:04.140 --> 00:29:04.740 Exactly. 704 00:29:04.980 --> 00:29:10.079 What I think should have happened in episode 4 is that Salamar 705 00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:14.460 should have still grabbed the proton accelerator or whatever it 706 00:29:14.460 --> 00:29:14.700 is. 707 00:29:15.779 --> 00:29:17.519 So, no, that's the thing the doctor's got. 708 00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:18.420 Spectral accelerator. 709 00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:18.960 I don't know. 710 00:29:19.019 --> 00:29:21.000 And he should have still... 711 00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:22.799 Betrum's pursuit thingy. 712 00:29:22.859 --> 00:29:24.059 No, it is a proton accelerator. 713 00:29:24.119 --> 00:29:27.119 Yeah, and pretty much he has his Captain A ha moment of, you know 714 00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:29.880 I'm going to hunt down this monster and then Vashinski, you're 715 00:29:29.880 --> 00:29:32.519 finished in the space fleet. when actually he should have been 716 00:29:32.519 --> 00:29:36.900 motivated more as Scott of the Antarctic. 717 00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:37.619 It should have been. 718 00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:40.380 He's been going on about his command and how proud he is of his 719 00:29:40.380 --> 00:29:40.680 command. 720 00:29:40.740 --> 00:29:43.500 He should have had the chance to prove that by saying, I'm going 721 00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:44.640 to sacrifice myself. 722 00:29:44.700 --> 00:29:46.200 So this mission will succeed. 723 00:29:46.259 --> 00:29:47.700 And you know what? 724 00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:50.400 That's still a slightly mad thing to do, and you could have still 725 00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:54.059 had it slightly unhinged, but it would have redeemed the character 726 00:29:54.059 --> 00:29:54.660 somewhat. 727 00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:58.200 Now, despite what you may hear, that's not an antimatter monster 728 00:29:58.200 --> 00:30:00.180 and he'd be very hurt to be called so. 729 00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:01.140 It's Todd. 730 00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:03.779 He's looking surprisingly well for his age, but... 731 00:30:03.779 --> 00:30:05.279 Fry crotchety of alert. 732 00:30:05.339 --> 00:30:05.819 He is. 733 00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:06.660 Yeah, yeah. 734 00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:08.279 Well, guys, it's just me. 735 00:30:08.339 --> 00:30:10.319 It's not the anti-matter monster. 736 00:30:10.380 --> 00:30:14.099 Frederick Jager returns as Professor Sorenson. 737 00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:19.140 I never liked Professor Sorenson, and I was really surprised that 738 00:30:19.140 --> 00:30:24.599 at the end of the show, the anti-matter monster actually allows 739 00:30:24.599 --> 00:30:25.259 him to live. 740 00:30:25.319 --> 00:30:29.160 Yet he's the cause of so many deaths. 741 00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:32.819 Do you think he should have lived or died? 742 00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:34.440 Oh. 743 00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:38.220 My space giant bubble is picking up some sort of signal. 744 00:30:38.279 --> 00:30:42.779 Oh, it's an SOS, and it's coming from Mars. 745 00:30:42.900 --> 00:30:44.579 I must investigate. 746 00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:48.839 Because we then have that very uncomfortable moment at the end 747 00:30:48.839 --> 00:30:53.579 where Salamar's been killed off, but Sorenson survives. 748 00:30:53.640 --> 00:30:54.299 Yeah. 749 00:30:54.299 --> 00:30:56.640 I think you've really hit on something there. 750 00:30:56.700 --> 00:31:00.660 If this story was drawing more on the actual histories of Mawson 751 00:31:00.660 --> 00:31:03.299 and Scott of the Antarctic, and there were certainly plenty of 752 00:31:03.299 --> 00:31:07.079 those films going around in on television and in the cinema, in 753 00:31:07.079 --> 00:31:10.319 the 50s and 60s in Britain and Australia, much more interesting a 754 00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:14.339 take because this is really one of those South Paul expedition 755 00:31:14.339 --> 00:31:16.140 stories that goes horribly, horribly wrong. 756 00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:17.880 We all end up eating K 9. 757 00:31:17.940 --> 00:31:19.859 You know, you know why? 758 00:31:19.859 --> 00:31:20.759 survives, though. 759 00:31:20.819 --> 00:31:24.960 Philip Hinchcliffe steps in and says that the death of Sorenson 760 00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:28.559 where he originally gets lost in the pit forever, was to Green and 761 00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:31.559 Bleak, and it's kind of like, where was where were you, Mr 762 00:31:31.559 --> 00:31:32.579 Hinchcliffe last year? 763 00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:36.180 We were being threatened by Nazis every week. 764 00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:37.500 You know what I mean? 765 00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:39.779 tea time in children's television. 766 00:31:39.839 --> 00:31:43.319 So he had he got religion suddenly about being too grim. 767 00:31:43.440 --> 00:31:46.079 How do you feel that ends up, though, with Sorenson being 768 00:31:46.079 --> 00:31:46.559 redeemed? 769 00:31:46.680 --> 00:31:51.839 I like that the doctor kind of puts him on a different paths both 770 00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:54.720 to keep the planet safe, to keep Sorenson safe and to save their 771 00:31:54.720 --> 00:31:55.140 culture. 772 00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:58.799 I don't I don't think Sorenson should have survived. 773 00:31:58.859 --> 00:32:01.920 It undermines when it undermines when the doctor says we are 774 00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:04.740 scientists and we must take responsibility for our actions. 775 00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:08.220 Hinchcliffe's decision there is very is very questionable. 776 00:32:08.279 --> 00:32:12.059 It's possibly, it's possibly geni-laired award-winning, I have to 777 00:32:12.059 --> 00:32:12.240 say. 778 00:32:12.299 --> 00:32:15.480 I don't feel that this story can possibly be turning up at this 779 00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:18.299 point in the season because surely he's just filmed brain of 780 00:32:18.299 --> 00:32:22.859 morbidness and looking at this, thinking, oh, I think we went a 781 00:32:22.859 --> 00:32:23.339 bit far. 782 00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:24.539 But he didn't. 783 00:32:24.660 --> 00:32:26.339 It's before. 784 00:32:26.460 --> 00:32:31.019 I mean, I suppose the other thing is, um, if Sorenson doesn't 785 00:32:31.019 --> 00:32:35.160 survive, there is no, there is no one to back up Vishinsky story 786 00:32:35.160 --> 00:32:38.700 when he comes back with the ship with most of the crew dead. 787 00:32:38.759 --> 00:32:43.319 I actually need someone to give the lesson to about power, you 788 00:32:43.319 --> 00:32:47.640 know, like this is about upsetting the very balance of nature and 789 00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:51.240 transgressing, you know, the book boundaries of the universe in 790 00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:53.640 order to get power. 791 00:32:53.819 --> 00:32:57.720 And so the doctor has to kind of step in and fix that. 792 00:32:57.779 --> 00:33:01.500 And so he does that by giving Sorenson that lecture about, you 793 00:33:01.500 --> 00:33:04.920 know, kinetic potential of planetary motion. 794 00:33:04.980 --> 00:33:08.279 And I quite like the fact that Sorenson's a little humbled and a 795 00:33:08.279 --> 00:33:10.440 little disoriented by what he's been through. 796 00:33:10.500 --> 00:33:12.660 What about the doctor and Sarah in this one? 797 00:33:12.779 --> 00:33:16.200 Well, you know, like one of the reasons that we like this series, I 798 00:33:16.200 --> 00:33:19.799 think, or that we have like this series, is they're at the top of 799 00:33:19.799 --> 00:33:25.259 their game, but this is actually the 1st time ever. that the show 800 00:33:25.259 --> 00:33:31.559 has just had a male and female lead and no other semi-regular 801 00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:32.579 companion. 802 00:33:32.579 --> 00:33:33.599 Yeah, yeah, you're right. 803 00:33:33.660 --> 00:33:37.079 Unit's gone at the very beginning of the next story, we're 804 00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:40.380 throwing unit, you know, out the airlock and we'll talk about that 805 00:33:40.380 --> 00:33:40.920 next week. 806 00:33:40.980 --> 00:33:44.819 And so, although we think it's normal for the doctor to travel 807 00:33:44.819 --> 00:33:47.579 with a young woman and that's all we have. 808 00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:49.440 Well, it's in fact, is it normal? 809 00:33:49.500 --> 00:33:52.200 Well, it's, yeah, no, that it's weird. 810 00:33:52.259 --> 00:33:55.319 But it's in fact something we've never had before. 811 00:33:55.380 --> 00:33:58.079 And I actually think that it impairs. 812 00:33:58.079 --> 00:34:02.339 Except before the cameras ever started to roll, which is why I 813 00:34:02.339 --> 00:34:04.440 feel, or we could look at Quinas, couldn't we? 814 00:34:04.500 --> 00:34:08.099 Yeah, which is like the Sarah is the doctor's granddaughter in 815 00:34:08.099 --> 00:34:11.039 apotheosis, which is why he should never snog them. 816 00:34:11.099 --> 00:34:12.780 Stephen Moffatt. 817 00:34:12.840 --> 00:34:14.460 It's been a while since you've said that. 818 00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:15.960 Don't just blame Moffat. 819 00:34:16.019 --> 00:34:16.739 Russell started it. 820 00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:19.079 Actually, Philip Siegel started it to be fair. 821 00:34:19.139 --> 00:34:21.539 Yeah, Philip Siegel has a lot to answer for. 822 00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:22.679 It's deep. 823 00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:24.780 Such as where Spielberg? 824 00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:25.320 Yes. 825 00:34:25.380 --> 00:34:31.199 The problem is that it impedes world building, but they're in 826 00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:32.159 their little cocoon, aren't they? 827 00:34:32.219 --> 00:34:36.360 Yeah, now the adventures become like a disconnected series of 828 00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:38.099 things that could happen in any order. 829 00:34:38.159 --> 00:34:42.900 There's no, you know, world to go back to. a really good point. 830 00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:46.980 The Avengers, which is the closest thing we can think of in many 831 00:34:46.980 --> 00:34:47.639 ways to this. 832 00:34:47.699 --> 00:34:51.420 It wasn't that long ago in television history, either, that we had 833 00:34:51.420 --> 00:34:53.099 Stephen Steven, his lady. 834 00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:55.019 But they had the home counties. 835 00:34:55.079 --> 00:34:59.159 It was always in the safe place of a recognisable place, just like 836 00:34:59.159 --> 00:35:04.079 Pertley's unit years, where odd things would occur within the 837 00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:06.239 safety of the home counties. 838 00:35:06.300 --> 00:35:08.460 But here, we don't even have. 839 00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:13.619 So there was always a cyclorama, if you like, of recognisability 840 00:35:13.619 --> 00:35:16.139 and the characters, therefore, were part of our world. 841 00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:19.739 So we were the Avengers were somehow in between reality and 842 00:35:19.739 --> 00:35:20.219 dissonance. 843 00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:24.420 But whereas here, it's simply like you've thrown four-dimensional 844 00:35:24.420 --> 00:35:26.519 figures into a three-dimensional space. 845 00:35:26.579 --> 00:35:28.260 We don't fit into it at all. 846 00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:31.739 We are no longer reflected in the character of Sarah, Sarah, has 847 00:35:31.739 --> 00:35:33.539 not been one of us for a long time. 848 00:35:33.599 --> 00:35:39.420 Yeah, yeah, a big problem about this dual lead situation, and I'll 849 00:35:39.420 --> 00:35:43.619 be talking about this more next story, is Sarah starts losing her 850 00:35:43.619 --> 00:35:44.099 humanity. 851 00:35:44.219 --> 00:35:46.440 Do you think she becomes callous? 852 00:35:46.500 --> 00:35:52.199 No, the thing I wouldn't quite use that word, but yeah, there is a 853 00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:53.460 loss of empathy, I think. 854 00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:55.320 For the other characters. 855 00:35:55.380 --> 00:35:56.280 I think so. 856 00:35:56.400 --> 00:36:00.179 I think it's what Jackie fears for Rose in Army of Ghosts. 857 00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:00.780 Yes. 858 00:36:00.780 --> 00:36:01.500 Yeah, yeah. 859 00:36:01.500 --> 00:36:03.539 Where she's a woman. 860 00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:06.420 You know, she'll be on a moon or an asteroid or in a market 861 00:36:06.420 --> 00:36:08.820 somewhere and she won't be Rose Tyler anymore. 862 00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:11.940 And I just think she stops becoming a recognisable character. 863 00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:15.840 Look, I'm not a big fan of Peter Davidson's characters. 864 00:36:15.900 --> 00:36:19.920 I don't like, I like Tegan, but I don't like... 865 00:36:20.099 --> 00:36:22.199 Oh, I thought we were talking about Peter Davidson's characters. 866 00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:24.059 Sorry, the doctor. 867 00:36:24.119 --> 00:36:27.119 Yeah, Oliver has very peculiar practice. 868 00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:31.860 That character in The Tomorrow People with a Duslem pin. 869 00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:32.639 Oh, God. 870 00:36:32.699 --> 00:36:35.340 No, not Davison on tomorrow, people. 871 00:36:35.400 --> 00:36:35.639 Please. 872 00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:37.260 So yes, I agree with you. 873 00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:38.639 I'm not fond of Davidson's characters. 874 00:36:38.699 --> 00:36:41.639 I think I may have meant to say companions. 875 00:36:42.539 --> 00:36:44.639 Is that what he calls him? 876 00:36:44.699 --> 00:36:49.860 But, but there is an attempt at world building and stories do have 877 00:36:49.860 --> 00:36:52.920 a consequence beyond their sort of figure. and the stories are 878 00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:53.219 terrible. 879 00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:53.940 Do you know what I mean? 880 00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:56.219 But can't you looking forward to that? 881 00:36:56.280 --> 00:36:58.739 But the world building. 882 00:36:58.800 --> 00:37:01.199 There's an attempt at world building and I really, really miss 883 00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:03.000 that whenever it's just the doctor. 884 00:37:03.059 --> 00:37:04.199 I agree. companion. 885 00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:09.239 And, you know, the most recent series of Doctor Who, as we record 886 00:37:09.239 --> 00:37:10.619 is series 8. 887 00:37:11.159 --> 00:37:15.300 And, you know, it is just Capaldi and Jenna Coleman. 888 00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:19.440 But there was Danny. anchoring it and there was... 889 00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:22.860 And Cole Hill students coming along and some of those other kids. 890 00:37:22.860 --> 00:37:23.880 And they were really trying. 891 00:37:23.940 --> 00:37:26.760 It felt a bit tenuous, but at least Moffatt was recognising that 892 00:37:26.760 --> 00:37:27.719 that needs to be there. 893 00:37:27.780 --> 00:37:30.960 And of course it was a huge feature of Russell's Doctor Who. 894 00:37:31.019 --> 00:37:35.639 And so for the next little while. you know what I mean? 895 00:37:35.699 --> 00:37:39.239 For the next few years, in fact, for the rest of Tom's time until 896 00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:40.500 season 18, really. 897 00:37:40.619 --> 00:37:44.519 That's going to be the model and I'm not a big fan of it. 898 00:37:47.579 --> 00:37:48.659 I just dropped something. 899 00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:49.199 Did you hear that? 900 00:37:49.260 --> 00:37:50.519 It was a shock. 901 00:37:50.579 --> 00:37:53.519 Actually, let's have a moment, Brendan. 902 00:37:53.579 --> 00:37:54.420 I actually agree with Nathan. 903 00:37:55.199 --> 00:37:58.320 On that bombshell, dear listener. 904 00:38:10.739 --> 00:38:15.059 That's all the time we have for Planet of Evil, so we will... 905 00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:16.860 So is this just our Jenny Laird episode? 906 00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:19.920 Well, we'll find that out in a few weeks time. 907 00:38:19.980 --> 00:38:24.179 Next week we'll be back discussing, and I am right this time 908 00:38:24.179 --> 00:38:28.199 something which is regarded as a classic of the Hinchcliffe era, if 909 00:38:28.199 --> 00:38:29.519 not Doctor Who, as a whole. 910 00:38:29.579 --> 00:38:30.960 Nathan, stop grimacing. 911 00:38:31.019 --> 00:38:32.519 It is Pyramids of Mars. 912 00:38:32.820 --> 00:38:38.280 Until then, please find us online at FTE podcast on Twitter, flight 913 00:38:38.280 --> 00:38:41.159 through entirety on Facebook and iTunes, where you can leave a 914 00:38:41.159 --> 00:38:43.619 review and flight through entirety.com. 915 00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:48.659 Also, you may want to check out and subscribe to a website called 916 00:38:48.659 --> 00:38:49.980 Bond Finger. 917 00:38:50.039 --> 00:38:54.960 There are exciting things coming up there. until... intrusive. 918 00:38:55.019 --> 00:38:56.940 Until next week. 919 00:38:57.000 --> 00:38:58.380 Thank you very much and good night. 920 00:38:58.440 --> 00:38:59.099 Good night. 921 00:38:59.159 --> 00:39:01.500 Why is it pyramids plural? 922 00:39:01.559 --> 00:39:02.760 There's only one pyramid. 923 00:39:03.719 --> 00:39:06.360 That would reflect your entirety. 924 00:39:06.420 --> 00:39:08.940 Nathan doesn't read, Brendan Jones and Richard Stone. 925 00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:14.099 This episode, where Spielberg was recorded on the 5th of July. 926 00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:17.820 The next episode will be released on August 9th. 927 00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:21.960 Did you know that you can now derive power from downloading our 928 00:39:21.960 --> 00:39:25.019 doctorary commentary on bondfinger.com? 929 00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:30.780 Are you going to hold it this time or? 930 00:39:30.780 --> 00:39:32.039 Okay, darling. 931 00:39:32.760 --> 00:39:37.559 So, yeah, hold it, hold it about here. aware that I keep brushing 932 00:39:37.559 --> 00:39:38.579 it or is that not happening? 933 00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:40.380 I just leave it off. 934 00:39:40.440 --> 00:39:41.460 I couldn't I couldn't hear it. 935 00:39:41.519 --> 00:39:42.300 Oh, okay. 936 00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:47.159 I have nothing to say about this. 937 00:39:47.219 --> 00:39:48.900 I have lots. 938 00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:50.039 It's good.