WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:14:35 1 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:36.960 Hello and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast, which leaves cupcakes and sparkling wines where we tread. 2 00:00:37.020 --> 00:00:38.460 We find that good. 3 00:00:38.520 --> 00:00:39.240 I'm Brendan. 4 00:00:39.299 --> 00:00:43.560 I'm Nathan I'm really looking forward to seeing what happens to all the lovely characters in this story. 5 00:00:43.619 --> 00:00:45.659 I'm so, so glad to meet them. 6 00:00:45.719 --> 00:00:46.799 Well, I know it's going to end well. 7 00:00:47.100 --> 00:00:54.960 I understand their surname was originally Stark, which means we're off to, well, off to visit Mick Jagger, actually. 8 00:00:55.020 --> 00:00:56.880 That's actually Mick Jagger's mum. 9 00:00:56.939 --> 00:01:00.240 Yeah, he owned Stargrove, but it was his mum was living there. 10 00:01:00.299 --> 00:01:22.140 I'd like to think that she and the butler, the little bloke who later appeared as the bloke who owned Magpie as Ron Cook, the bloke who owned. not, but I just think of the actor as being the same as Ron Cuckoo played Parker in the Thunderbirds form and Mr. Magpie in the Idiot Plant is, in fact, just make him do for Mick Jagger's mum. don't know what's going on. 11 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:23.519 It's Pyramids of Mars. 12 00:01:31.140 --> 00:01:38.219 I like to do extensive research, obviously, so I checked out the DWM 1st 50 years poll. 13 00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:38.819 Do you remember that? 14 00:01:38.879 --> 00:01:39.719 They ran a poll. 15 00:01:39.780 --> 00:01:47.760 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. where everyone had to sort of rank in order, all their favourite stories, and this story came 8 in that poll. 16 00:01:47.819 --> 00:01:51.659 It's an absolute stone cold classic that everyone really likes. 17 00:01:51.780 --> 00:01:55.260 And I actually just don't think it's very good. 18 00:01:55.319 --> 00:01:59.099 And I wanted to really look into why that is. 19 00:01:59.159 --> 00:02:06.420 Do you remember a 100 years ago when we did the Aztecs and you actually managed to convince me that it actually might be quite enjoyable? 20 00:02:06.540 --> 00:02:08.759 historical without a sontara lurking. 21 00:02:08.819 --> 00:02:10.080 Yeah, it can actually be good. 22 00:02:10.439 --> 00:02:12.780 This is a historical, but it's a pseudo-historical. 23 00:02:12.840 --> 00:02:14.400 It has a monster and all of that sort of thing. 24 00:02:14.460 --> 00:02:19.620 And I'm just struggling to think, why is it, do you think that this comes eight? 25 00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:21.360 Why is it so perennially? 26 00:02:21.419 --> 00:02:24.539 I can tell you, because it's not about Doctor Who and Doctor Who's successful. 27 00:02:24.599 --> 00:02:26.159 It's never about itself. 28 00:02:26.219 --> 00:02:28.800 It's about things we're already familiar, ish. 29 00:02:28.919 --> 00:02:32.099 And it just expounds upon it and reinforces. 30 00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:36.419 I would actually say they're not prototypes that we admire. 31 00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:41.759 They're actually visceral spinal cord things that we know and we really love. 32 00:02:41.879 --> 00:02:46.620 But isn't it just sort of rehashing the sort of fairly terrible hammer horror film? 33 00:02:46.620 --> 00:02:46.979 Absolutely. 34 00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:47.879 On the surface, absolutely. 35 00:02:47.939 --> 00:02:56.039 And no, no, not universal, because Universal was always set in places like Bulgaria or Bulgaria, wherever they film Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. 36 00:02:56.099 --> 00:03:07.259 But this one, the reason it's said in England is, of course, Hammer was always filmed on the offset at Pinewood, never in the major studios in the cabin, the cabin in the woods. on the offset. 37 00:03:07.319 --> 00:03:09.539 And so they had all that woodsy stuff around it. 38 00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:12.780 But this, again, and yes, I'm going to hammer the same damn point again. 39 00:03:12.840 --> 00:03:13.800 Sorry, listener. 40 00:03:13.860 --> 00:03:25.560 But this is Edwardian, spy fiction, shitters, and all the rest of it, you know, the Riddle of the Sands, all those kids where it always comes back to Edwardian home counties, and it really works because the threat is in the backyard. 41 00:03:25.620 --> 00:03:31.259 And they are trampling on the cabbages of Alice's parents. 42 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:34.020 This is Lewis Carroll, this is our children's stories. 43 00:03:34.080 --> 00:03:40.500 They're stomping through the same gardens that Edith Nesbitt had Tom and the Secret Garden just next door. 44 00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:43.979 So, an arts back to that, thread of children's literature. 45 00:03:44.039 --> 00:03:46.680 Yeah, and ontologically disturbing. 46 00:03:46.740 --> 00:03:49.020 Why the hell do they ever come back to England? 47 00:03:49.080 --> 00:03:50.460 Why? 48 00:03:50.460 --> 00:03:53.939 And when did Sutic ever have a Bunnings set up? 49 00:03:53.939 --> 00:03:55.800 And then his pyramid? 50 00:03:55.860 --> 00:03:57.960 This is what I think he's been... 51 00:03:57.960 --> 00:03:59.460 No, let's concentrate on the pros. 52 00:03:59.520 --> 00:04:00.719 We can talk about the... 53 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:04.800 Can I have a tetrahedral garden shed just like? 54 00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:05.580 Because that's all I want. 55 00:04:05.639 --> 00:04:10.319 Just before we move on to that, Nathan, I'd like to answer your question as well, as to why does this so perennial? 56 00:04:10.379 --> 00:04:10.620 Yeah. 57 00:04:10.620 --> 00:04:25.019 We discussed last week how Planet of Evil has various influences, Robert Louis Stevenson, Jekyll and Hyde, Forbidden Planet, which was itself influenced by The Tempest, and the thing from another world, being the 3 big influencers. 58 00:04:25.079 --> 00:04:29.160 And we also discussed how it doesn't really do anything new with those ideas. 59 00:04:29.220 --> 00:04:37.980 Where Pyramids of Mars really succeeds is, you know, it takes the movie idea of the mummy and undead and what have you. 60 00:04:38.040 --> 00:04:41.339 But arranges them in a new configuration. 61 00:04:41.399 --> 00:04:47.220 And then gives us the original God that none of those films ever had. that really ramps up. 62 00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:52.199 This is the most powerful force the doctor has and indeed will ever encounter. 63 00:04:52.259 --> 00:04:54.420 Apart from as Ireland, Kronos. 64 00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:56.879 Yes, because Sutik is more powerful than all of them. 65 00:04:56.939 --> 00:04:57.600 Yeah, exactly. 66 00:04:57.660 --> 00:05:00.540 Zal and Kronoffs are a bit crap, as you said yourself. 67 00:05:00.600 --> 00:05:02.100 Sorry to quote. 68 00:05:02.160 --> 00:05:15.480 But even the impossible planet, that monster whom we assume is another splinter of the self of Soutek, also voiced by Gobriel Wolf, it's intimated that Soutek is a pandimensional being in some regards. 69 00:05:15.540 --> 00:05:16.560 Yeah, absolutely. 70 00:05:16.620 --> 00:05:23.819 And also at the end of this story, spoiler alert, he's sent to the end of time, and we don't know how far in future, the impossible planet Satan Pit is. 71 00:05:23.879 --> 00:05:26.459 But I'm just going to say one more thing about influences. 72 00:05:26.519 --> 00:05:35.040 I think an influence on this, a lot of people may not know about, but in Australia at least, they've recently been released on DVD and Blu-ray, I believe, for the 1st time. 73 00:05:35.100 --> 00:05:46.680 The abominable Dr. Fibes and Dr. Fibes rises again. 2 horror films featuring Vincent Price, and especially the 2nd one is heavily influenced by Egyptology. 74 00:05:46.740 --> 00:05:48.420 Have either of you heard of these films? 75 00:05:48.540 --> 00:05:51.240 I've heard of them Well, the Abominable Doctor... 76 00:05:51.240 --> 00:05:52.860 I've seen the 2nd one, yeah. 77 00:05:52.920 --> 00:05:54.839 The 1st one is the premise. 78 00:05:54.899 --> 00:05:57.660 Vincent Price is a man who was in a car accident. 79 00:05:57.720 --> 00:05:59.579 His wife died on the operating table. 80 00:05:59.639 --> 00:06:05.160 So he sets about very poetically killing the rest of the surgery team. 81 00:06:05.220 --> 00:06:13.199 It's actually a black comedy and also features Peter Jeffries, who we'll very famously appear on Doctor Who Later, appeared in the Macraterra as well. 82 00:06:13.259 --> 00:06:14.699 Dr. Fires rises again. 83 00:06:14.759 --> 00:06:18.959 He's still trying to revive his dead wife and travels to Egypt. 84 00:06:19.019 --> 00:06:22.860 He travels to Egypt to use the powers of the god of death. 85 00:06:22.920 --> 00:06:25.560 And what? 86 00:06:25.560 --> 00:06:31.500 Well, what will happen much later when we get the missing adventures giving us a sequel to Pyramids of Mars. 87 00:06:31.500 --> 00:06:33.240 We have Soutek trying to revive. 88 00:06:33.300 --> 00:06:35.220 It's like the story of Rod Stewart, isn't it? 89 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:36.839 Just marrying younger women. 90 00:06:36.899 --> 00:06:38.519 Yeah, yeah, and trying to revive his own face. 91 00:06:38.579 --> 00:06:41.160 Anyway, Nathan, what were you going to say next? 92 00:06:41.220 --> 00:06:48.300 Well, like, I don't know that it's really sufficient to have plundered a whole heap of sort of crummy old B-grade films. 93 00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:49.139 Do you know what I mean? 94 00:06:49.199 --> 00:06:52.620 Like it needs to be a good story sort of by itself. 95 00:06:52.680 --> 00:07:01.319 I think that the winner of that poll was Day of the Doctor, and obviously it was, but, you know, nostalgia because it had been very recently shown. 96 00:07:01.379 --> 00:07:02.160 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 97 00:07:02.220 --> 00:07:03.720 And it'll fall, you know what I mean? 98 00:07:03.779 --> 00:07:11.339 But it doesn't win the poll because it's got a sort of a huge playlist of films that it's plundered particularly. 99 00:07:11.459 --> 00:07:16.199 Like I did try and think because like I want to be sort of reasonably sympathetic about it. 100 00:07:16.259 --> 00:07:18.600 And so let's do a checklist. 101 00:07:18.660 --> 00:07:19.319 Do you know what I mean? 102 00:07:19.379 --> 00:07:35.459 Like I think the sets look spectacular, the Egypt set's not great, but if you're going to set something in the Edwardian era, the BBC sets and costumes are just going to look great, you know, like I think that they're going to look good, so the house looks great. 103 00:07:35.459 --> 00:07:41.399 You know, everyone's outfit looks great, the pseudo-historical thing in this era is something that we can do. 104 00:07:41.459 --> 00:07:43.620 This is the 1st time we've travelled back. 105 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:50.040 I think the 20th century, earlier in the 20th century, at the end of Dalek's master plan, you know, for an episode, we go to Hollywood. 106 00:07:50.100 --> 00:07:52.680 You know, we've got Michael Sheard, who I think is lovely. 107 00:07:52.740 --> 00:07:55.079 Actually, I'm sorry, I'm going to have to contradict you. 108 00:07:55.139 --> 00:07:55.560 Ooh. 109 00:07:55.620 --> 00:08:01.079 It's the 1st time we've travelled back to 20th century... 110 00:08:01.139 --> 00:08:01.379 Yes. 111 00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:04.500 Anyway, back onto Michael Sheard, who is, as always, wonderful. 112 00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:06.240 Yeah, so Michael Sheard... 113 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:07.199 He's had his best in this one. 114 00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:08.879 Yeah, yeah, he's terribly good. 115 00:08:08.939 --> 00:08:10.079 And you know what? 116 00:08:10.139 --> 00:08:16.439 Michael Sheard, he sometimes comes in for a bit of ribbing in fan circles. 117 00:08:16.500 --> 00:08:23.100 But in this, he plays a very sympathetic, I think, well-rounded character. 118 00:08:23.100 --> 00:08:28.620 And, you know, the tragedy of the character is something we very palpably feel, but I'll come back to that later. 119 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:30.720 I think that's really good. 120 00:08:30.839 --> 00:08:32.039 You've got 2 great villains. 121 00:08:32.100 --> 00:08:34.559 I think Marcus Scarman and Tom Boker. 122 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:37.139 He's always a feeling. 123 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:38.220 We always just take him as right. 124 00:08:38.279 --> 00:08:45.480 But he's got like this sort of craggy face and terrible teeth and like a terrific voice, you know, and the pale makeup and stuff. 125 00:08:45.539 --> 00:08:47.340 Like, I think he's terribly good. 126 00:08:47.399 --> 00:09:00.539 I think Soutec, you know, even though he sort of sits in a chair for 3 episodes and doesn't actually do anything, he's got that incredible crisp, terrifying, slightly camp voice, which, you know, Russell, obviously, as we've said, has as well. 127 00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:02.279 Yes, we trust him. 128 00:09:02.340 --> 00:09:07.919 It is like visiting a very elderly relative in the hospice, all that power, but all repressed. 129 00:09:07.980 --> 00:09:11.519 So you know, you know how powerful they have been. 130 00:09:12.179 --> 00:09:13.200 How do you kill? 131 00:09:13.259 --> 00:09:14.340 I can have you destitute. 132 00:09:14.340 --> 00:09:18.059 The fact that it's... more powerful. 133 00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:21.000 There are some great memorable moments. 134 00:09:21.059 --> 00:09:23.159 Like, I think the Cliffhanger to episode one. 135 00:09:23.220 --> 00:09:25.259 Do you remember the cliffhanger to episode one? 136 00:09:25.320 --> 00:09:28.200 I am the servant of Su take, he needs no other Russell Reed? 137 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:32.399 And that wonderful scream from Ibrahim Namin. 138 00:09:32.460 --> 00:09:33.360 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 139 00:09:33.419 --> 00:09:34.679 So I think that's great. 140 00:09:34.740 --> 00:09:50.399 I think Tom and Sarah at the absolute top of their game, you know, just terrific, that opening scene where Tom just basically says farewell to unit and Sarah mocks him and there's all that stuff about, you know, so long as Albert didn't wear the dress and things. 141 00:09:50.460 --> 00:09:53.220 Like apparently all thrown in in rehearsals. 142 00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:56.940 The script was actually much lighter, being by Lewis Gilbert. 143 00:09:57.000 --> 00:09:59.039 You know, you know the backstory of the script, don't you? 144 00:09:59.100 --> 00:10:01.740 Yeah, so it is it's credited as what? 145 00:10:01.740 --> 00:10:03.059 Lewis? 146 00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:04.559 Stephen Harris, yeah. 147 00:10:04.620 --> 00:10:08.220 But it's actually Lewis Gilbert, who... 148 00:10:08.279 --> 00:10:10.200 Sorry, Lewis Gilbert is a director of Bond films. 149 00:10:10.259 --> 00:10:11.700 Have we mentioned James Bond before? 150 00:10:11.759 --> 00:10:12.659 Oh, I don't know. 151 00:10:12.659 --> 00:10:13.919 We have bondfinger.com. 152 00:10:13.980 --> 00:10:15.059 Living on. 153 00:10:15.179 --> 00:10:16.440 This is uncanny, isn't it? 154 00:10:16.500 --> 00:10:21.539 Lewis Griefer had written the episode The General of the Prisoner, which was about mind control through machines. 155 00:10:21.600 --> 00:10:22.799 He's a really good writer. 156 00:10:22.860 --> 00:10:26.879 And he was doing really well in other shows. mostly cop thrillers. 157 00:10:26.940 --> 00:10:35.159 And he was quite ported by the BBC for these convoluted and complex plots, which work really well in crime dramas. 158 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:40.259 But as Hinchcliffe in his notes quickly said, doesn't work so well in Doctor Who. 159 00:10:40.379 --> 00:10:43.139 The story was much more hammer. 160 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:44.399 It was set in the British Museum. 161 00:10:44.460 --> 00:10:54.480 The mummies were taking over the British Museum, and there was a vessel, there was one of those canopic jars, which held seeds, which were going to refloriate Mars itself. 162 00:10:54.600 --> 00:10:55.320 Yes. 163 00:10:55.320 --> 00:10:58.440 Which is kind of lovely and Irish, isn't it? 164 00:10:58.500 --> 00:11:00.480 It sounds terribly camp, doesn't it? 165 00:11:00.539 --> 00:11:03.419 Well, it just sounds a bit mad and silly, really. 166 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:08.460 But the only thing they kept of the original script was the title. 167 00:11:08.519 --> 00:11:10.559 There was nothing else that really applied. 168 00:11:10.620 --> 00:11:13.379 But the idea was that they would reuse the story itself. 169 00:11:13.500 --> 00:11:16.860 Grief is script is good, and they would use it another time, slightly differently. 170 00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:19.320 Obviously, they just didn't get around to it, sadly. 171 00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:20.519 Oh, hello, big finish. 172 00:11:20.580 --> 00:11:22.080 Can we talk about the cons? 173 00:11:22.139 --> 00:11:24.059 Can we talk about the reasons why I just think... 174 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:30.480 Perhaps before we do, I'd like to say, again, and I really like what you were saying there, and it made me think of something else of why this story... 175 00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:32.460 Yeah, of why the story works. 176 00:11:32.519 --> 00:11:37.080 You've got the thing with the 2 brothers. and how Marcus and Lawrence. 177 00:11:37.139 --> 00:11:43.320 There are archetypes here that go much, much further back and are much stronger and more powerful than a script or 4 episodes can give. 178 00:11:43.379 --> 00:11:45.299 That's why this story is remembered. 179 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:52.620 For me, it's, there's so many levels of narrative within this that are actually about our own lives and about the history of our culture. 180 00:11:52.740 --> 00:12:03.059 The repressive power of the already precarious Victorian Empire, in its Edwardian Twilight, is mirrored in the impeccunity, and in the impetence of Sutek himself. 181 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:05.879 Sutic is actually Queen Victoria, still alive. 182 00:12:05.879 --> 00:12:16.200 Her puppet, which is her son, Edward, is Mark Scarman, mincing about, and having it off with Lily Langtree, or, indeed, whoever that be, Ibraham Amin, or whoever it is. 183 00:12:16.259 --> 00:12:29.220 But there are actually lovely mirrors of the culture of England at the time and the culture of Britain, in the '70s, with the power strikes, and we've really lost the empire, and the whole thing is crumbling. 184 00:12:29.279 --> 00:12:32.940 British Leyland is in ruins, the coal miners are on strike. 185 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:34.679 We're on a three day power week. 186 00:12:34.740 --> 00:12:35.700 OK, that's been resolved. 187 00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:39.600 But Britain's been through a really awful, awful time in 1975. 188 00:12:39.899 --> 00:12:41.639 Let's remember when we were great? 189 00:12:41.759 --> 00:12:43.440 Actually, no, we weren't that great. 190 00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:48.120 There's the sense of that imminent collapse of the Great War that's just coming up. 191 00:12:48.179 --> 00:12:53.580 So this is a perfect timing, 1911, 1912, that final Indian summer. 192 00:12:53.639 --> 00:12:56.820 And this script really nails it, and I don't even know if it's conscious. 193 00:12:56.879 --> 00:12:57.840 I'd like to think it is. 194 00:12:57.899 --> 00:13:13.259 But there's also the restlessness, and the impetus to resume lost power, but the guilt that comes with that, knowing that power was built on the suffering and enslavement of others, in this case, of native cultures. 195 00:13:13.379 --> 00:13:24.539 And then there's, on top of the self confessed goodness of the comfortably ignorant protagonists, everyone in this is a lovely, charming, fairy tale English person. 196 00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:25.740 Jolly hockey sticks. 197 00:13:25.799 --> 00:13:32.940 Thank you, right down to wearing their lovely three piece tweeds, or their lovely linens, if they're over in the tropical areas. 198 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:40.320 And also, for instance, Lawrence Scarman knows about Eddie the Poacher or whatever his name is. 199 00:13:40.379 --> 00:13:42.000 And Tom, yes, Clemence. 200 00:13:42.059 --> 00:13:44.159 Sorry, do you know who plays Clemence, by the way? 201 00:13:44.220 --> 00:13:44.700 Can I? 202 00:13:44.700 --> 00:13:44.940 Yeah. 203 00:13:44.940 --> 00:13:46.559 Is this a Tovi reference? 204 00:13:46.620 --> 00:13:48.600 It's it's Roberta Toby's father. 205 00:13:48.659 --> 00:13:49.559 It really is. 206 00:13:49.620 --> 00:13:50.340 It really is. 207 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:53.100 He'd do anything to get away from that daughter. 208 00:13:53.159 --> 00:13:54.659 But that's the thing. 209 00:13:54.779 --> 00:13:56.879 The Scarmans know about him. 210 00:13:56.940 --> 00:14:00.600 They don't mind that he's on their land poaching because that's part of the social structure. 211 00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:01.980 And you're going to have a poacher. 212 00:14:02.039 --> 00:14:04.080 And because he's white and English pig binge, Josh. 213 00:14:04.139 --> 00:14:05.220 I mean, that's really. 214 00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:14.340 But you know what confrounds or what co-ops all of that is this confronting of the animus of their own colonial greed. 215 00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:16.379 That animus is Sutic. 216 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:18.840 And I feel that that's why they all have to die. 217 00:14:19.320 --> 00:14:26.460 There's actually the point of we need to take responsibility for our colonialism, our racism, and our exploitation. 218 00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:29.759 Sutech has to just take responsibility, and so does every white character. 219 00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:35.580 This is a very powerful story about Britain's empire. 220 00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:45.419 And the colonialism is there from the very first scene where Scarman breaks into the tomb and then tells off his Egyptian, his Egyptian, superstitious sandwiches. 221 00:14:45.480 --> 00:14:47.279 Superstitious savages, thank you. 222 00:14:47.340 --> 00:14:50.639 Yeah, and they're speaking their own language, but he's shouting after them in English. 223 00:14:50.700 --> 00:14:54.059 If you shout it loudly and clearly, everyone will understand. 224 00:14:54.120 --> 00:14:55.259 Yeah, exactly. 225 00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:57.419 But what happens though? 226 00:14:57.480 --> 00:14:58.200 What happens? 227 00:14:58.259 --> 00:15:06.840 The, quote unquote, natives, quote unquote, superstitious savages who run away don't get killed and have their bodies. 228 00:15:07.740 --> 00:15:12.179 Are they actually the only other other than the doctor and Sarah, the only other people to survive? 229 00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:18.059 Yeah, I think they might be, you know, because they very sensibly go, oh, this is a bit of a dangerous situation. 230 00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:21.899 I'm going to bugger off. how much you're paying me. quite sensible. 231 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:24.659 Look, Holmes, I think we've observed this before. 232 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:28.139 Holmes has an interesting relationship with colonialism. 233 00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:35.220 He likes satirising it, but mostly because he likes satirising everything because he is really brutal and cynical. 234 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:49.559 And we talked about the satire that he does of colonialism in Carnival of Monsters, where both on board the SS Bernice and in Inter Minor, There's, you know, exploitation going on that he's making fun of. 235 00:15:49.620 --> 00:15:55.080 But he's making fun of it, not because he's like an angry young man who wants to overthrow it. 236 00:15:55.139 --> 00:16:00.059 He does make fun of it in a way that still. 237 00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:02.100 That still appropriates it. 238 00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:09.600 So, for instance, I think Namin is a racist portrayal, and I think it's slightly uncomfortable. 239 00:16:09.659 --> 00:16:12.059 Like, I think he's cool in lots of ways. 240 00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:20.100 Holmes does satirise colonialism, but I don't think he does it from an angry, let's burn it down kind of way. 241 00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:32.159 And we're so going to see that at the end of next year, where I think Holmes really makes it quite clear that however much he might make fun of something. really loves it as well. 242 00:16:32.220 --> 00:16:37.379 And here there is this sort of lazy boy zone stereotyping of foreigners. 243 00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:39.960 Do you think we're choking the piss out of Terrence sticks? 244 00:16:40.019 --> 00:16:48.840 Because you look at how Terrence Dicks approaches colonialism, and you know that, and he's also come out in interviews saying he's all for it, and the British were the best thing to ever happen to India. 245 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:51.000 But he's just doing that to be irritating. 246 00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:54.240 No, he believes that his family were in the army in India. 247 00:16:54.299 --> 00:16:56.820 Terristics is quite palpable on this point. 248 00:16:56.879 --> 00:16:58.559 He feels that it wasn't just cricket. 249 00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:02.580 British colonialism was a force for good entirely. 250 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:06.059 He's even, you can even look up some of his interviews on that. 251 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:07.920 I'm not getting this from anything other than the DVDs. 252 00:17:07.980 --> 00:17:09.420 This is what Dick said. 253 00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:13.140 And I think Holmes, because we know how smart Holmes is. 254 00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:16.319 Just as Richard Dawkins invented the term meme. 255 00:17:16.380 --> 00:17:27.000 I reckon that it's Robert Holmes, who invented the term meta, because Robert Holmes comes in onto every damn story he does and critiques it from a really high place. 256 00:17:27.059 --> 00:17:30.720 He's the queen of the spiders, and I'm sure he was called back more than once when he was alive. 257 00:17:30.779 --> 00:17:40.259 Truckling over his mountain and just giving all to everybody else's spiel and showing them up for what they are. in as dark a way as he can possibly do it. 258 00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:49.019 And Terrence Dix did always talk about, and still always talks about how much of an iconoclass that Robert Holmes was. 259 00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:59.819 There's a documentary on the 2 Doctors DVD, which is all about Robert Holmes, which, because of an appearance by Jimmy Savile on the DVD is currently out of print, you can't buy it new anymore. 260 00:17:59.880 --> 00:18:10.140 The final comment on the documentary on Rob Holmes comes from Terence Dixon, he said, you know, when we work together in the 70s, you would go out for long lunches to discuss ideas. 261 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:11.880 But no one ever ate dessert. 262 00:18:11.940 --> 00:18:14.460 The dessert menu would come around. 263 00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:17.759 But, you know, no one who was cultured would ever eat dessert. 264 00:18:17.819 --> 00:18:19.920 It was the thing. 265 00:18:19.980 --> 00:18:21.839 They would put out the dessert menu but you wouldn't touch it. 266 00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:24.599 So you go around the table, Philip Hinchcliffe, no, no dessert. 267 00:18:24.660 --> 00:18:25.680 Barry, lets know, notice it. 268 00:18:25.799 --> 00:18:27.599 Terrence Dix, no, no, dessert. 269 00:18:27.660 --> 00:18:30.240 Robert Holmes, I'll have jam, Roly, Poly and custard. 270 00:18:30.299 --> 00:18:32.460 You know, Chance to prove the point. 271 00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:34.140 He's a monster. isn't he? 272 00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:36.660 And wine and cheese. 273 00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:37.980 Where's John Poo? 274 00:18:38.099 --> 00:18:40.380 Can I talk about the cons then? 275 00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:41.819 You know, like one of them? 276 00:18:42.299 --> 00:18:42.480 Yes. 277 00:18:42.539 --> 00:18:43.859 I think there are a lot of them. 278 00:18:43.980 --> 00:18:47.099 So for instance, let's start. 279 00:18:47.160 --> 00:18:50.339 You mentioned, you know, Bunnings. 280 00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:55.259 So the giant giant plot hole. it is possible to watch it. 281 00:18:55.319 --> 00:18:56.519 Look, I don't care about... 282 00:18:56.640 --> 00:18:57.839 You could pass an a siren through it. 283 00:18:58.380 --> 00:19:00.660 I don't care about plotholes. whatever. 284 00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:15.960 But pretty much the 2nd time that you watch it, you realise that Horrors has imprisoned his brother in the pyramid with a whole bunch of servo robots, everything he needs to make a giant missile, a lovely garden share. 285 00:19:16.019 --> 00:19:19.200 Some canopic jars full of force field things. 286 00:19:19.259 --> 00:19:24.779 He's got a lovely widescreen thing from which to watch what's going on sort of anywhere in the world. 287 00:19:24.839 --> 00:19:27.720 And a friendly helper behind the chair. 288 00:19:27.779 --> 00:19:28.799 We'll get to them. 289 00:19:28.859 --> 00:19:35.700 So it's a giant, like that's, and that's ludicrous and that's been observed many times, and maybe it doesn't matter, and this is Doctor Who. 290 00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:36.960 No, it's fantastically observed. 291 00:19:37.019 --> 00:19:59.160 Also, if we can jump to the final episode, how come both sound and vision can escape the spatial time vortex tunnel through which Sutek passes, in the end, when he zips him up for 7000 years, but not Sutek's thoughts themselves, we've seen that Sutek can crush physically a mind from halfway around the planet. 292 00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:05.220 But he can't do anything to the doctor when he's got when he's got the meal or washing machine control. 293 00:20:05.220 --> 00:20:08.819 Okay, so let's talk about that while we're talking about cons. 294 00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:10.319 Sanford calls this. 295 00:20:10.380 --> 00:20:10.859 Does it? 296 00:20:10.859 --> 00:20:13.920 The doctor flicks the kill Soutec Lever. 297 00:20:14.039 --> 00:20:16.440 Yeah. and Soo Tex Dead. 298 00:20:16.500 --> 00:20:19.259 And it really is incredibly perfunctory and not very interesting. 299 00:20:20.039 --> 00:20:22.259 The video effects are terrible. 300 00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:25.440 Suddenly, so he takes wearing a dress and has the jackal head and stuff. 301 00:20:25.500 --> 00:20:27.299 And like he looks terribly... 302 00:20:27.420 --> 00:20:28.680 We're back at the Golden Girls again. 303 00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:32.460 There's a minuscule guest cast. 304 00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:35.339 For the 2nd time in a row, they're all men. 305 00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:41.460 No one is very interesting as a character apart from, apart from... 306 00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:43.680 Well, you don't even see Lawrence really young. 307 00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:44.700 How good is Collins? 308 00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:46.559 Oh, I would, oh, he's fabulous. 309 00:20:46.619 --> 00:20:47.819 Collins is fabulous in there. 310 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:48.960 And Dr. Warlock. 311 00:20:49.019 --> 00:20:50.160 I really like Dr. Warner. 312 00:20:50.220 --> 00:20:51.240 I love Dr. Warlock. 313 00:20:51.420 --> 00:20:58.019 Oh, he's so, he's so mean and when you, if Parker was not a puppet and a real, he would be Colin. 314 00:20:58.079 --> 00:21:01.019 But fortunately, he goes after work for Audrey Forbes, Hamilton. 315 00:21:01.740 --> 00:21:03.539 Yeah, that's right. 316 00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:04.859 It was just a flesh wound. 317 00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:06.000 Yeah, yeah, he's fine. 318 00:21:06.059 --> 00:21:12.000 So I don't think I actually don't think the characters are all that interesting, but whatever, there aren't that many of them and they're all killed. 319 00:21:12.059 --> 00:21:16.559 So for instance, by episode four, everyone is dead except the villains and the heroes. 320 00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:23.519 In a few months we're going to have a similar situation where we have, in this case, a mostly male guest cast who are all killed. 321 00:21:23.579 --> 00:21:25.920 But don't you think they're more interesting? 322 00:21:25.980 --> 00:21:27.960 No, I think that's more interesting. 323 00:21:28.380 --> 00:21:30.720 I think your seeds of doom, but you're not talking... 324 00:21:30.839 --> 00:21:32.220 No, we're talking about horror fang rock. 325 00:21:32.279 --> 00:21:37.500 The one exception, though, the one character who is more interesting in horror of Fang Rock is Adelaide. 326 00:21:37.619 --> 00:21:41.460 But I like the bitchiness between skin sale and Parmadale. 327 00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:44.400 I like Rico Thingo's character. 328 00:21:44.460 --> 00:21:46.019 It's like you slip sideways in time. 329 00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:46.680 Do you listen? 330 00:21:46.740 --> 00:21:49.680 No, no, no. talk about this next time, but I actually think they're better. 331 00:21:49.740 --> 00:21:55.859 I think the relationship between the brothers, which because of the nature of the script has to be carried entirely by Michael Shears. 332 00:21:55.980 --> 00:21:57.480 Yeah, because the other ones are dead. 333 00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:58.259 And doesn't he do it? 334 00:21:58.259 --> 00:22:03.000 well, it's his best role in that. that heartbreaking moment where he's trying to remind him with the photograph. 335 00:22:03.059 --> 00:22:05.519 That's that's proper drama. 336 00:22:05.579 --> 00:22:06.180 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 337 00:22:06.180 --> 00:22:22.559 You know, as much as I love the per era as much as I love Barry Letts and Terence Dick's take on Doctor Who, the only time you get that in their take on Doctor Who is when it's a regular cast member, you don't get that with a guest cast member until this point in colour Doctor Who. 338 00:22:22.619 --> 00:22:29.819 I just think it's so close to being just one worthwhile guest cast member and everyone else is kind of just there for plot reasons. 339 00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:32.819 Clements is a complete waste of time. 340 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:36.960 He contributes nothing to the plot and just eats up whole... 341 00:22:37.019 --> 00:22:37.440 Yeah. 342 00:22:37.500 --> 00:22:43.859 Clemence is a unit grunt who gets blown up by an auton. yeah If he'd been his own daughter, he'd have been able to compete. 343 00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:45.299 Now he'd been in it. 344 00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:48.119 That would have been completely entirely army by herself. 345 00:22:48.180 --> 00:22:50.940 Episode 4 is terrible. 346 00:22:51.000 --> 00:23:00.480 And Holmes openly admits to ripping Terry Nation off in the script by having Sarah say, ooh, it reminds me of City of the Excelons. 347 00:23:00.539 --> 00:23:01.500 She's so right. 348 00:23:01.559 --> 00:23:03.180 Do you know what tribophysics actually is? 349 00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:05.759 It's to do with the movement of the human body? 350 00:23:05.819 --> 00:23:06.900 Even better than that. 351 00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:08.339 It's the study of lubrication. 352 00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:09.960 Oh, it's okay. 353 00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:11.400 He said in his most sepulchral. 354 00:23:11.460 --> 00:23:20.579 And can I say, dear listener, if you're keen, if you're keen, there is a journal of tribe of physics from the University of Adelaide to which you could subscribe right now. 355 00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:22.740 I'll put something in the show notes. 356 00:23:23.579 --> 00:23:37.680 I think this leads to a big con of most of this season in that it's either got 3 episodes of buildup and then a really poor final episode or it's got a poor 1st episode and builds to a really strong finish. 357 00:23:37.740 --> 00:23:47.640 That being said, I don't mind the last episode, but I think it is really saved by Tom and Liz goofing about and doing the Marx Brothers routine and what have you. 358 00:23:47.700 --> 00:23:53.519 But at the same time, and this is coming back to something you were talking about last episode, Nathan, so I suppose we could lift it onto a con. 359 00:23:53.579 --> 00:24:04.619 We do have that moment where Sarah sort of chastises the doctrine says, look, a man's been murdered and you can just sit and the doctor points out, look, 4 men have been murdered. 360 00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:06.299 Five actually, if you're counted. 361 00:24:06.420 --> 00:24:07.799 It's got that count wrong though, hasn't it? 362 00:24:07.859 --> 00:24:08.400 It's actually six. 363 00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:19.380 But the main problem I have then is sort of 2 scenes later, Sarah dresses him up in the in the mummy outfit and says it must have been a nasty accident. 364 00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:20.940 I love that. such a funny joke. 365 00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:25.200 It is a funny joke, but it's like, you know, a couple of minutes ago you were distraught. 366 00:24:25.259 --> 00:24:28.619 And now and now it's that lack of empathy. 367 00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:29.579 I was talking about. 368 00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:31.740 But isn't that also how humans deal with trauma? 369 00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:34.200 I look at how I deal with work. the other way you can... 370 00:24:34.259 --> 00:24:38.819 And it's the same thing. you know, an hour later, you know, you might as well make a joke out of it because it's put in the past now. 371 00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:43.140 I like to think that Sarah is more real by the way she deals with those traumas. 372 00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:45.900 Well, I'm still alive, I might as well make a joke about it. 373 00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:50.160 Yellow's humour is really big in Hitchcliffe seasons, yeah. 374 00:24:50.220 --> 00:24:52.440 Can we put this in the in the pros column? 375 00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:56.880 Because I think that this is the 1st instance of a trope that... 376 00:24:57.000 --> 00:24:57.660 Sorry, what's that? 377 00:24:57.720 --> 00:24:59.099 Of a thing. 378 00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:09.180 This is the 1st instance of a thing that becomes a staple in Doctor Who and in particular in the new series where the doctor is sort of weird and alien because he sees the big picture. 379 00:25:09.240 --> 00:25:10.500 Yes, yes, that's true. 380 00:25:10.619 --> 00:25:16.680 And she, like the companion, whoever it is, is more emotional and more empathetic and stuff. 381 00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:19.740 And I think you get it in the new series right from the very beginning. 382 00:25:19.799 --> 00:25:28.619 And I think where in the unquiet dead, the doctor has an alien kind of viewpoint and rose has a very human viewpoint and they get into sort of conflict. 383 00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:32.220 And I think that here is really terrific and it's really well done. 384 00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:37.140 You know, Sarah yells at him and says, but you're not even human and then she catches herself. 385 00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:38.039 Yeah, yeah. 386 00:25:38.099 --> 00:25:40.380 And also that it's very interesting. 387 00:25:40.440 --> 00:25:53.400 I think that's very conscious later on the part of Mark Gatas because the 1st draft and the 1st quite a few drafts. of the Unquiet Dead featured a scene where the doctor showed Rose what the future would be like if it did change. 388 00:25:53.460 --> 00:25:56.579 See, let's put that in the pros column, too. 389 00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:59.039 That goes in the pros. 390 00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:00.839 That's one of my favourite moments from this. 391 00:26:00.900 --> 00:26:02.099 The universe. 392 00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:09.599 And it's copped flat from people like Sandover, because logically within the narrative, they say it's a lacuna, it makes no logical sense. 393 00:26:09.660 --> 00:26:11.940 It's a pause. 394 00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:13.859 Like, it is a pause in the plot. 395 00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:15.839 It's the time scanner. 396 00:26:15.900 --> 00:26:17.400 It's the space-time visualiser. 397 00:26:17.460 --> 00:26:18.180 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 398 00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:19.319 To me, it makes perfect sense. 399 00:26:19.380 --> 00:26:26.640 And it's the 1st time we've seen how tenuous the doctor's life and therefore our lives actually are because nothing is set in stone. 400 00:26:26.700 --> 00:26:31.440 It completely obliterates Billy's argument that history must be respected. 401 00:26:31.559 --> 00:26:32.880 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 402 00:26:32.940 --> 00:26:54.779 But I think it also, it also supports Billy's argument that history, if we look at underneath, because the first doctor sees history of sacrosancts, but we now see, because of the fourth doctor's action here, that history is actually as tenuous and febrile and in calamitous danger, as the wings of a butterfly under an Amazon rainfall. 403 00:26:54.900 --> 00:27:02.400 It's so delicate that the merest action can destroy the point at which you, my child, have come from. 404 00:27:02.460 --> 00:27:03.299 Yes. 405 00:27:03.420 --> 00:27:08.700 He's actually concerned for his companions, and in this case, his concern for the entire universe. 406 00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:17.819 But the first doctor genuinely understood that as other doctors under the new series have said, the present, the future, the past. 407 00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:19.079 It's all timey whimey. 408 00:27:19.140 --> 00:27:21.480 It's all in flux, and it can all be rewritten. 409 00:27:21.539 --> 00:27:24.480 The first doctor never revealed that information. 410 00:27:24.539 --> 00:27:34.200 It's only in his fourth incarnation that he feels confident enough with the relationship with his companion to actually show her the genuine threat of her own existence. 411 00:27:34.259 --> 00:27:43.319 And I think that's why, 'cause we've touched on this in previous broadcasts, why the hell, and it should be an inverted commas, why the hell does Sarah Jane keep climbing back into the TARDAS? 412 00:27:43.380 --> 00:27:45.420 She's, um, parsifile. 413 00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:58.140 She's the knight errant, marching out knowing that the task is almost insurmountable, but if she doesn't do it, the costs are irrevocable. 414 00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:00.599 You have to go out there to save the universe. 415 00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:05.880 And that has become a primary feature of the new series companion. 416 00:28:05.940 --> 00:28:11.460 Yeah, it's the only reason Sarah would get back into the TARDIS because she knows that if she's not there, everything could end. 417 00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:15.960 We're going to talk about this quite soon in two weeks' time. 418 00:28:16.019 --> 00:28:17.039 Fabulous. 419 00:28:17.099 --> 00:28:23.339 But I actually think that why she's doing it is contractual obligation and the writers haven't thought it through carefully. 420 00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:34.980 And I think she's a bit into it. in a rather Midlands dirty sort of way that she kind of, you know, she kind of likes a bit of the spank, but it's like, oh, God, I hate Brain of Morbius. 421 00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:35.640 Are we up to that yet? 422 00:28:35.700 --> 00:28:36.420 No, not yet. 423 00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:38.279 We've still got one more to get through. 424 00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:40.079 Nathan, do you have any more cons for us? 425 00:28:40.140 --> 00:28:48.059 You know, I mean, they're all just sort of stupid little things, but I do think that what I've said is enough to just make me think. 426 00:28:48.539 --> 00:28:53.339 Why on earth is this in the top 10 best Doctor Who stories ever. 427 00:28:53.400 --> 00:28:55.920 I don't think it's even the best story of the season. 428 00:28:55.980 --> 00:28:59.940 I think that's probably Brain of Morbius, actually, Richard. 429 00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:02.160 Stay tuned. 430 00:29:02.220 --> 00:29:15.180 But and it's all it's all confused by the fact that like you, Richard, I watch this show, you know, once a year during the 70s, if not more frequently, because they would just repeat this. 431 00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:17.160 It was on all the time, listener. 432 00:29:17.220 --> 00:29:17.460 Yeah. 433 00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:26.579 So this is the stuff that I know really well and I actually find myself watching through season 13 that I like it much, much less than I expected. 434 00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:27.359 And you know what? 435 00:29:27.420 --> 00:29:28.079 I have to agree with you. 436 00:29:28.140 --> 00:29:36.420 It's not as good as I remember season 13, although this story is even better than I remember because of things I've already talked about and something I want to allude to in a minute. 437 00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:36.779 Go on. 438 00:29:36.900 --> 00:29:45.660 See, I think with this one, because this is one of the most horrific of the Hinchcliffe Holmes horror stories. 439 00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:52.200 Horror films are always less effective the more you watch them because you know where the scares are coming from. 440 00:29:52.259 --> 00:29:54.059 You know where the surprises are coming from. 441 00:29:54.119 --> 00:29:54.660 Like a joke. 442 00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:55.440 Like a joke. 443 00:29:55.500 --> 00:30:03.119 What makes the story effective or what is then left that has to make the story effective is the script and the acting and the casting. 444 00:30:03.180 --> 00:30:10.259 And I do get your point, Nathan, that the guest characters, a lot of them are there just to sort of get killed off. 445 00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:13.680 But they are still interesting characters. 446 00:30:13.740 --> 00:30:15.059 They do still have relationships. 447 00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:17.400 They come on, they play their part, they die beautifully. 448 00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:20.579 The doctor and Sarah are very good together. 449 00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:22.079 There's lots of witty moments in the script. 450 00:30:22.140 --> 00:30:28.319 It's so well directed by Patty Russell, who, uh, that scene we were talking about earlier with the future decimated Earth. 451 00:30:28.380 --> 00:30:33.059 Philip Hinchcliffe wanted to show the Tahnest landing on the Decimated Earth, and then the doors open and then we see it. 452 00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:38.160 And Patty Russell said, no, it has to be seen the same time Sarah sees it. because she's our audience. 453 00:30:38.220 --> 00:30:40.619 Patty Russell. really understands this show. 454 00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:43.319 How interesting that she and Tom did not get on. 455 00:30:43.380 --> 00:30:54.059 Well, apparently they didn't to start with, but then when Tom realised that she was there to do a job and she meant business and damn well get on with it. 456 00:30:54.119 --> 00:31:01.079 He actually developed a great deal of respect for her and called her sir, which, of course, now that's very, that's very uncomfortably safe. 457 00:31:01.140 --> 00:31:07.259 Tom had to be corralled like an enormous bulk in these and what a shame that's a soon to go. 458 00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:12.119 We do know the story that Paddy made him dress up in one of those terrible mummy costumes. 459 00:31:12.180 --> 00:31:13.680 Because he was such an arse. 460 00:31:13.740 --> 00:31:16.200 Yeah, it was. 461 00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:16.859 Yeah, it was. 462 00:31:16.920 --> 00:31:23.759 And of course, you know, Liz Laden had a bit of a problem with her because Liz Jenner Rad said, where would Sarah learn to fire a rifle? 463 00:31:23.819 --> 00:31:26.339 And she's like, it's in the script, darling. 464 00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:27.720 You're from Liverpool. 465 00:31:27.779 --> 00:31:28.980 It's really rough. 466 00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:32.880 You know, you've spent a year and a half working on and off with the military. 467 00:31:32.940 --> 00:31:36.839 Yeah, exactly. where the hell are you going to learn mediaeval Latin? 468 00:31:37.019 --> 00:31:37.980 Oh no, that's Barry Letts. 469 00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:39.779 But, you know, there's lots of things, Sarah. 470 00:31:39.839 --> 00:31:41.460 I mean, we can go through and point out if you want to. 471 00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:44.759 There's lots of things Sarah has obviously learned in the in-betweeny stories. 472 00:31:44.819 --> 00:31:45.839 No I have no problem. 473 00:31:45.900 --> 00:31:48.299 And here's someone who doesn't need a hand on his cushion. 474 00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:49.079 It's Todd. 475 00:31:49.140 --> 00:31:50.700 Brilliant. 476 00:31:50.819 --> 00:31:53.880 Is he going to read these questions off the auto cue each time? 477 00:31:57.779 --> 00:32:06.299 I bring Sutek's gift of questions to you all. 1980 or not 1980. 478 00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:09.119 It's not a continuity problem yet. 479 00:32:09.180 --> 00:32:12.480 Do you think people just need to build a bridge and get over it? 480 00:32:12.539 --> 00:32:21.000 I remember as a kid that 1980, or coming into 1980 was a really big deal, much like the year 2000. 481 00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:27.420 Personally, I just think that Sarah has been overdramatic and rounding up tonight, 1980. 482 00:32:27.539 --> 00:32:32.400 Sure, she could have said almost 1980, but I don't have a problem with it. 483 00:32:32.460 --> 00:32:42.839 But then I always think that Doctor Who is set at the time it's recorded not 2 or 3 years in the future, like the production team. 484 00:32:42.900 --> 00:32:44.400 Do you guys have a problem with it? 485 00:32:44.460 --> 00:32:48.599 Oh, look, I've just got some chunk mail. 486 00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:50.880 Sick if you're a time bubble. 487 00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:53.640 Come try our new space shells. 488 00:32:53.700 --> 00:33:00.660 They'll leave you feeling like a whole brand new U. Yours sincerely, Mr Stigren. 489 00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:02.819 Hmm, I must go and see what that's all about. 490 00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:10.200 This is going to be a slightly longer than usual flight through entirety because I have been hinting this for a long time. 491 00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:14.759 You finally get treated to my unit dating theory. 492 00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:16.740 Da da da da. 493 00:33:16.859 --> 00:33:20.279 I love the music queue and there needs to have been the music queue right there. 494 00:33:20.339 --> 00:33:21.599 So, pretty much. 495 00:33:21.660 --> 00:33:23.160 How did you just Up until now. 496 00:33:23.220 --> 00:33:23.579 I know. 497 00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:24.599 I'm so talented. 498 00:33:24.660 --> 00:33:29.279 We get the confirmation that Sarah is from 1980. 499 00:33:29.460 --> 00:33:32.640 Now, she's talking about the time she most recently left Earth. 500 00:33:32.700 --> 00:33:35.339 So let's call that robot Tear of the Zygons. 501 00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:40.319 Working backwards from there, that means... 502 00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:42.299 I'd like to say it's actually Time Warrior. 503 00:33:42.359 --> 00:33:43.859 She's from 1980. 504 00:33:43.980 --> 00:33:46.440 She meets the doctor in 1980. 505 00:33:46.619 --> 00:33:57.480 Well, I was going to put season 11 in 1979, so she travels off with him full time in 1980, but saying that's 1980 as well still works. 1978, we have season 10. 506 00:33:57.779 --> 00:34:04.500 That's when Guy Crayford vanishes, who we will meet in the next story because Sarah mentions I was here on a story 2 years ago. 507 00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:13.559 So that would have been contemporaneous with Joe's last year. 1977 in season nine, 1976 is season eight, 1975, is season seven. 508 00:34:13.619 --> 00:34:16.199 Now from here, I'm going to go back to the start of the unit timeline. 509 00:34:16.260 --> 00:34:21.719 Start of the unit timeline is 1935, the abominable snowman. 510 00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:24.420 So we had the abominable snowmen. 511 00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:30.659 When we next see Professor Travers in the web of fear, he says that it's been... 512 00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:35.880 Well, he says 40, but I make it 35 just because, yeah, he's rounding up. 513 00:34:35.940 --> 00:34:38.400 He's an archeologist, he's got no idea about maths. 514 00:34:38.460 --> 00:34:39.179 Of course not. 515 00:34:39.239 --> 00:34:50.519 Okay, so 1935 is the abominable snowman. 1970 is the web of fear. 1974 is the invasion because the brigadier says it's been 4 years since I last. 516 00:34:50.579 --> 00:34:54.539 Isn't it cited that it's 75 somewhere, either in the novel or the script. 517 00:34:54.599 --> 00:34:56.880 It's a fabulous novel, by the way, by... 518 00:34:56.940 --> 00:34:58.199 We are only getting what's on tally. 519 00:34:58.260 --> 00:34:59.519 Again, not the series exercise. 520 00:34:59.579 --> 00:35:12.659 Season 7 then therefore takes place in 1975 because the brigadier in Robot says, and sorry, in Planet of the Spider says, last time he went off missing, he was away for months. 521 00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:15.360 And when he came back, he had a new face. 522 00:35:15.420 --> 00:35:17.820 So I'm taking that as the year changeover. 523 00:35:17.880 --> 00:35:20.880 So that gives us Sarah Janers from 1980. 524 00:35:21.059 --> 00:35:24.059 The problem then becomes later on. 525 00:35:24.119 --> 00:35:25.559 Morden undead. 526 00:35:25.619 --> 00:35:26.340 Morden undead. 527 00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:30.780 The brigadier states that he left the army in 1977. and his mind was wiped. 528 00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:31.679 And hello. 529 00:35:31.739 --> 00:35:37.139 Mrs. Thatcher was not Prime Minister when the Zygons were forming their incursion on some quarry. 530 00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:37.860 Ah, but they were. 531 00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:39.960 She was because that's said in 1980. 532 00:35:40.139 --> 00:35:42.300 In the original timeline. 533 00:35:42.360 --> 00:35:44.099 1980. in the original timeline. 534 00:35:44.219 --> 00:35:47.880 Okay, come on, come on. to deal with Morden, auntie. 535 00:35:47.940 --> 00:35:48.840 I am about to. 536 00:35:48.900 --> 00:35:50.820 Now, have another drink, listener. 537 00:35:51.300 --> 00:35:53.519 The reason I am bringing this up. 538 00:35:53.579 --> 00:35:55.800 I'm just passing Richard the Wang. 539 00:35:55.860 --> 00:35:56.760 He's gonna need it. 540 00:35:56.820 --> 00:36:06.360 The reason I'm bringing this up in Pyramid of Miles is because at the end of the story, The doctor sends Sutek down a time corridor to the end of the universe. 541 00:36:06.420 --> 00:36:07.559 I wish you could do that with cats. 542 00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:15.719 The doctor has already stated that it takes a being of Sutec's unlimited power to destroy the future. 543 00:36:15.780 --> 00:36:17.639 Completely, yes, yes. 544 00:36:17.699 --> 00:36:21.420 Now, the thing is, he's not just saying there Soutech can change timelines. 545 00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:31.079 He's saying Soutec has an effect on timelines beyond... the time space continuum itself, but certainly the reality of time as we perceive it. 546 00:36:31.139 --> 00:36:37.800 So if you're standing on a train platform, too close, you're over the yellow line, you're right next to it and a train whizzes past you, what happens? 547 00:36:38.579 --> 00:36:41.400 There's this tug of air as you go past. 548 00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:50.940 It is my conjecture that as Soutek is moving forward through time, he pulls time out of shape, he pulls time backwards 5 years. 549 00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:52.920 He's travelling from 1911. 550 00:36:53.099 --> 00:36:55.980 So that gives us abominable snowmen in 1930. 551 00:36:56.280 --> 00:36:58.380 Weather fear in 1965. 552 00:36:58.619 --> 00:37:01.199 The invasion in 1969. 553 00:37:01.380 --> 00:37:05.760 The Pertwi era takes place from 1970 to 1974. 554 00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:18.900 Robot tear up the zygons, android invasion and seeds of doom, android invasion seeds of doom are now in the new timeline, so that's 1975, meaning the brig can retire in 1977, Benton can retire in 1979. 555 00:37:19.139 --> 00:37:26.699 And when Sarah returns home Finally, we learn in canine and company that Lavinia hasn't seen her in years. 556 00:37:26.760 --> 00:37:30.480 It's because she's lying low because she knows she's in the wrong timeline. 557 00:37:30.539 --> 00:37:31.679 Brilliant. 558 00:37:31.739 --> 00:37:33.179 You heard it here first, listener. 559 00:37:33.300 --> 00:37:35.639 I think that might have really happened actually. 560 00:37:35.699 --> 00:37:37.440 That universe. 561 00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:39.719 This podcast has rebooted timey wimey. 562 00:37:39.780 --> 00:37:45.239 And there's one more piece of evidence, which I will mention in the Android invasion next week. 563 00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:47.579 Do you know what I reckon? 564 00:37:47.699 --> 00:37:49.260 That's the only thing that's going to keep me listening. 565 00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:50.039 Yeah it is. 566 00:37:50.099 --> 00:37:52.500 Do you know what I reckon is the best thing about this story again? 567 00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:53.940 in the day call. 568 00:37:54.719 --> 00:37:59.820 It's not just Sutex, Sutex's little outfit, which is up a Nile, by the way. 569 00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:03.300 And we won't, if we want to get into the whole hagiography. 570 00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:05.699 Is it hagiography for the history of gods? 571 00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:06.539 No, that's saints. 572 00:38:06.780 --> 00:38:12.539 Anyway, Sutex headpiece does reflect up on aisle, but look, he's sitting there. 573 00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:15.239 It's been 6,300 years. 574 00:38:15.300 --> 00:38:16.920 It's a disgrace. 575 00:38:16.980 --> 00:38:21.840 I can hear him just sitting there in this place. is so mardy. 576 00:38:21.900 --> 00:38:23.400 I am so over it. 577 00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:25.079 Hang on, hang on about. 578 00:38:25.139 --> 00:38:27.000 There's these new decorators. 579 00:38:27.059 --> 00:38:27.840 What are they called again? 580 00:38:27.900 --> 00:38:30.179 Boner organic crystallographers. 581 00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:31.440 They've just moved in. 582 00:38:31.500 --> 00:38:33.239 Because we were still 700 years ago. 583 00:38:33.300 --> 00:38:34.440 This works with your timeline. 584 00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:37.440 I'll get Broton and his lovely friend, the caper in. 585 00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:38.760 It wasn't EYE does. 586 00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:39.300 Anyway. 587 00:38:39.420 --> 00:38:40.440 And you'll get these. 588 00:38:40.500 --> 00:38:43.739 Anyway, if he comes in, you can hear, brother, go... 589 00:38:43.800 --> 00:38:49.139 And we go, ooh, what you need, a bit of Dinachrom thrust all over this place. 590 00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:49.800 Bit of colour. 591 00:38:49.860 --> 00:38:54.119 Because have you noticed that the walls of Sutek's tomb are exactly the same? 592 00:38:54.179 --> 00:39:00.179 as the walls of the Zygon spaceship, the actual effects, the painting effects? 593 00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:01.800 We notice these things, do, listener? 594 00:39:01.860 --> 00:39:02.940 So you don't have to. 595 00:39:03.059 --> 00:39:10.679 And you can hear, you can hear him, he's coming in with the cave with all red beard and all glory, saying, oh, oh, isn't it dreadful? 596 00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:12.000 And he's like, oh, Mr... 597 00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:13.320 Mr. Tutek, what are your needs? 598 00:39:13.380 --> 00:39:14.280 What you need? 599 00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:16.980 A triage of errands up your dado. 600 00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:20.340 Or the cable could run up a nice flock for you. 601 00:39:20.519 --> 00:39:23.219 Anyway, laying about and make suggestions. 602 00:39:23.340 --> 00:39:27.900 We could do the whole place up as a pizza marinari, your luck and calamari. anyway. 603 00:39:27.960 --> 00:39:32.579 Because the city says, no, but I came a bit taken with the ginger beard. 604 00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:38.159 And that's why there's a hand behind 2 texture plump in his cushion. 605 00:39:38.219 --> 00:39:45.659 Because it's the cable from all those 100s of years ago going, staying on and doing the job. anyway, that's what I think happened. 606 00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:04.320 Dear listeners, after that trip up and down several timelines, we just ran up a quick one for you. 607 00:40:04.380 --> 00:40:07.139 That's all the time we have for Pyramids of Mars. 608 00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:12.900 We'll be back next week to talk about, possibly the best story of the season, according to Nathan, the Android invasion. 609 00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:18.420 But until then, may all your cushions not stick to your bottom and require a hand to remove them. 610 00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:26.460 Please find us on Facebook and iTunes under Flightthrough Entirety, FTE podcast on Twitter and FlightthroughEntirety.com. 611 00:40:26.519 --> 00:40:27.539 Thank you very much for listening. 612 00:40:27.599 --> 00:40:28.500 Review us and good night. 613 00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:29.400 Good night. 614 00:40:29.460 --> 00:40:32.460 Oh, denials, not just a river in Egypt, is it? 615 00:40:32.519 --> 00:40:33.000 Good night. 616 00:40:36.420 --> 00:40:39.119 That was flight to entirety. 617 00:40:39.179 --> 00:40:41.820 Nathan Beverly, Brendan Jones and Richard Stone. 618 00:40:41.880 --> 00:40:46.320 This episode, he's always a villain, was recorded on July 5th. 619 00:40:46.380 --> 00:40:49.199 The next episode will be released on August 16th. 620 00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:51.420 I know how Su Tech feels. 621 00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:57.119 The last time I had Sweaty Joe Knight, I woke up stuck to a chair wearing a rubber dress in Egypt as well. 622 00:41:04.920 --> 00:41:07.139 No, we've already done that. 623 00:41:07.380 --> 00:41:11.159 That's the tag. already done. 624 00:41:12.840 --> 00:41:14.639 That's great. 625 00:41:15.059 --> 00:41:17.219 That's so good. 626 00:41:17.280 --> 00:41:19.320 Even this at the end of the season. 627 00:41:19.380 --> 00:41:20.460 Just leave that in. 628 00:41:20.519 --> 00:41:23.820 If only someone had said that to Hinchcliffe and Holmes. 629 00:41:25.500 --> 00:41:27.960 Doctor Fimes rises again. 630 00:41:28.019 --> 00:41:30.300 He's still trying to... 631 00:41:30.300 --> 00:41:33.360 Grow up, Richard.