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This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 14:44:02

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Hello and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor

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Who podcast, which leaves cupcakes and sparkling wines where we

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tread.

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We find that good.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan I'm really looking forward to seeing what happens to

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all the lovely characters in this story.

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I'm so, so glad to meet them.

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Well, I know it's going to end well.

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I understand their surname was originally Stark, which means we're

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off to, well, off to visit Mick Jagger, actually.

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That's actually Mick Jagger's mum.

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Yeah, he owned Stargrove, but it was his mum was living there.

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I'd like to think that she and the butler, the little bloke who

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later appeared as the bloke who owned Magpie as Ron Cook, the

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bloke who owned. not, but I just think of the actor as being the

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same as Ron Cuckoo played Parker in the Thunderbirds form and Mr

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Magpie in the Idiot Plant is, in fact, just make him do for Mick

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Jagger's mum. don't know what's going on.

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It's Pyramids of Mars.

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I like to do extensive research, obviously, so I checked out the

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DWM 1st 50 years poll.

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Do you remember that?

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They ran a poll.

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Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. where everyone had to sort of rank in order

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all their favourite stories, and this story came 8 in that poll.

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It's an absolute stone cold classic that everyone really likes.

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And I actually just don't think it's very good.

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And I wanted to really look into why that is.

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Do you remember a 100 years ago when we did the Aztecs and you

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actually managed to convince me that it actually might be quite

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enjoyable?

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historical without a sontara lurking.

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Yeah, it can actually be good.

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This is a historical, but it's a pseudo-historical.

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It has a monster and all of that sort of thing.

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And I'm just struggling to think, why is it, do you think that

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this comes eight?

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Why is it so perennially?

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I can tell you, because it's not about Doctor Who and Doctor Who's

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successful.

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It's never about itself.

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It's about things we're already familiar, ish.

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And it just expounds upon it and reinforces.

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I would actually say they're not prototypes that we admire.

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They're actually visceral spinal cord things that we know and we

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really love.

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But isn't it just sort of rehashing the sort of fairly terrible

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hammer horror film?

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Absolutely.

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On the surface, absolutely.

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And no, no, not universal, because Universal was always set in

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places like Bulgaria or Bulgaria, wherever they film Chitty Chitty

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Bang Bang.

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But this one, the reason it's said in England is, of course, Hammer

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was always filmed on the offset at Pinewood, never in the major

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studios in the cabin, the cabin in the woods. on the offset.

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And so they had all that woodsy stuff around it.

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But this, again, and yes, I'm going to hammer the same damn point

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again.

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Sorry, listener.

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But this is Edwardian, spy fiction, shitters, and all the rest of

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it, you know, the Riddle of the Sands, all those kids where it

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always comes back to Edwardian home counties, and it really works

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because the threat is in the backyard.

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And they are trampling on the cabbages of Alice's parents.

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This is Lewis Carroll, this is our children's stories.

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They're stomping through the same gardens that Edith Nesbitt had

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Tom and the Secret Garden just next door.

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So, an arts back to that, thread of children's literature.

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Yeah, and ontologically disturbing.

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Why the hell do they ever come back to England?

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Why?

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And when did Sutic ever have a Bunnings set up?

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And then his pyramid?

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This is what I think he's been...

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No, let's concentrate on the pros.

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We can talk about the...

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Can I have a tetrahedral garden shed just like?

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Because that's all I want.

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Just before we move on to that, Nathan, I'd like to answer your

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question as well, as to why does this so perennial?

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Yeah.

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We discussed last week how Planet of Evil has various influences

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Robert Louis Stevenson, Jekyll and Hyde, Forbidden Planet, which

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was itself influenced by The Tempest, and the thing from another

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world, being the 3 big influencers.

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And we also discussed how it doesn't really do anything new with

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those ideas.

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Where Pyramids of Mars really succeeds is, you know, it takes the

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movie idea of the mummy and undead and what have you.

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But arranges them in a new configuration.

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And then gives us the original God that none of those films ever

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had. that really ramps up.

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This is the most powerful force the doctor has and indeed will

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ever encounter.

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Apart from as Ireland, Kronos.

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Yes, because Sutik is more powerful than all of them.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Zal and Kronoffs are a bit crap, as you said yourself.

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Sorry to quote.

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But even the impossible planet, that monster whom we assume is

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another splinter of the self of Soutek, also voiced by Gobriel

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Wolf, it's intimated that Soutek is a pandimensional being in some

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regards.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And also at the end of this story, spoiler alert, he's sent to the

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end of time, and we don't know how far in future, the impossible

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planet Satan Pit is.

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But I'm just going to say one more thing about influences.

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I think an influence on this, a lot of people may not know about

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but in Australia at least, they've recently been released on DVD

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and Blu-ray, I believe, for the 1st time.

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The abominable Dr. Fibes and Dr. Fibes rises again. 2 horror films

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featuring Vincent Price, and especially the 2nd one is heavily

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influenced by Egyptology.

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Have either of you heard of these films?

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I've heard of them Well, the Abominable Doctor...

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I've seen the 2nd one, yeah.

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The 1st one is the premise.

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Vincent Price is a man who was in a car accident.

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His wife died on the operating table.

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So he sets about very poetically killing the rest of the surgery

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team.

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It's actually a black comedy and also features Peter Jeffries, who

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we'll very famously appear on Doctor Who Later, appeared in the

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Macraterra as well.

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Dr. Fires rises again.

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He's still trying to revive his dead wife and travels to Egypt.

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He travels to Egypt to use the powers of the god of death.

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And what?

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Well, what will happen much later when we get the missing

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adventures giving us a sequel to Pyramids of Mars.

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We have Soutek trying to revive.

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It's like the story of Rod Stewart, isn't it?

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Just marrying younger women.

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Yeah, yeah, and trying to revive his own face.

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Anyway, Nathan, what were you going to say next?

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Well, like, I don't know that it's really sufficient to have

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plundered a whole heap of sort of crummy old B-grade films.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Like it needs to be a good story sort of by itself.

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I think that the winner of that poll was Day of the Doctor, and

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obviously it was, but, you know, nostalgia because it had been

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very recently shown.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And it'll fall, you know what I mean?

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But it doesn't win the poll because it's got a sort of a huge

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playlist of films that it's plundered particularly.

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Like I did try and think because like I want to be sort of

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reasonably sympathetic about it.

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And so let's do a checklist.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Like I think the sets look spectacular, the Egypt set's not great

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but if you're going to set something in the Edwardian era, the BBC

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sets and costumes are just going to look great, you know, like I

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think that they're going to look good, so the house looks great.

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You know, everyone's outfit looks great, the pseudo-historical

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thing in this era is something that we can do.

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This is the 1st time we've travelled back.

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I think the 20th century, earlier in the 20th century, at the end

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of Dalek's master plan, you know, for an episode, we go to

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Hollywood.

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You know, we've got Michael Sheard, who I think is lovely.

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Actually, I'm sorry, I'm going to have to contradict you.

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Ooh.

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It's the 1st time we've travelled back to 20th century...

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Yes.

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Anyway, back onto Michael Sheard, who is, as always, wonderful.

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Yeah, so Michael Sheard...

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He's had his best in this one.

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Yeah, yeah, he's terribly good.

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And you know what?

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Michael Sheard, he sometimes comes in for a bit of ribbing in fan

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circles.

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But in this, he plays a very sympathetic, I think, well-rounded

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character.

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And, you know, the tragedy of the character is something we very

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palpably feel, but I'll come back to that later.

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I think that's really good.

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You've got 2 great villains.

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I think Marcus Scarman and Tom Boker.

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He's always a feeling.

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We always just take him as right.

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But he's got like this sort of craggy face and terrible teeth and

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like a terrific voice, you know, and the pale makeup and stuff.

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Like, I think he's terribly good.

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I think Soutec, you know, even though he sort of sits in a chair

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for 3 episodes and doesn't actually do anything, he's got that

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incredible crisp, terrifying, slightly camp voice, which, you know

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Russell, obviously, as we've said, has as well.

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Yes, we trust him.

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It is like visiting a very elderly relative in the hospice, all

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that power, but all repressed.

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So you know, you know how powerful they have been.

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How do you kill?

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I can have you destitute.

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The fact that it's... more powerful.

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There are some great memorable moments.

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Like, I think the Cliffhanger to episode one.

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Do you remember the cliffhanger to episode one?

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I am the servant of Su take, he needs no other Russell Reed?

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And that wonderful scream from Ibrahim Namin.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So I think that's great.

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I think Tom and Sarah at the absolute top of their game, you know

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just terrific, that opening scene where Tom just basically says

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farewell to unit and Sarah mocks him and there's all that stuff

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about, you know, so long as Albert didn't wear the dress and

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things.

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Like apparently all thrown in in rehearsals.

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The script was actually much lighter, being by Lewis Gilbert.

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You know, you know the backstory of the script, don't you?

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Yeah, so it is it's credited as what?

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Lewis?

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Stephen Harris, yeah.

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But it's actually Lewis Gilbert, who...

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Sorry, Lewis Gilbert is a director of Bond films.

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Have we mentioned James Bond before?

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Oh, I don't know.

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We have bondfinger.com.

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Living on.

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This is uncanny, isn't it?

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Lewis Griefer had written the episode The General of the Prisoner

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which was about mind control through machines.

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He's a really good writer.

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And he was doing really well in other shows. mostly cop

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thrillers.

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And he was quite ported by the BBC for these convoluted and

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complex plots, which work really well in crime dramas.

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But as Hinchcliffe in his notes quickly said, doesn't work so well

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in Doctor Who.

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The story was much more hammer.

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It was set in the British Museum.

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The mummies were taking over the British Museum, and there was a

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vessel, there was one of those canopic jars, which held seeds

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which were going to refloriate Mars itself.

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Yes.

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Which is kind of lovely and Irish, isn't it?

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It sounds terribly camp, doesn't it?

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Well, it just sounds a bit mad and silly, really.

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But the only thing they kept of the original script was the

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title.

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There was nothing else that really applied.

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But the idea was that they would reuse the story itself.

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Grief is script is good, and they would use it another time

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slightly differently.

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Obviously, they just didn't get around to it, sadly.

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Oh, hello, big finish.

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00:11:20.580 --> 00:11:22.080
Can we talk about the cons?

251
00:11:22.139 --> 00:11:24.059
Can we talk about the reasons why I just think...

252
00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:26.820
Perhaps before we do, I'd like to say, again, and I really like

253
00:11:26.820 --> 00:11:28.440
what you were saying there, and it made me think of something else

254
00:11:28.440 --> 00:11:30.480
of why this story...

255
00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:32.460
Yeah, of why the story works.

256
00:11:32.519 --> 00:11:36.539
You've got the thing with the 2 brothers. and how Marcus and

257
00:11:36.539 --> 00:11:37.080
Lawrence.

258
00:11:37.139 --> 00:11:40.259
There are archetypes here that go much, much further back and are

259
00:11:40.259 --> 00:11:43.080
much stronger and more powerful than a script or 4 episodes can

260
00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:43.320
give.

261
00:11:43.379 --> 00:11:45.299
That's why this story is remembered.

262
00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:49.559
For me, it's, there's so many levels of narrative within this that

263
00:11:49.559 --> 00:11:52.259
are actually about our own lives and about the history of our

264
00:11:52.259 --> 00:11:52.620
culture.

265
00:11:52.740 --> 00:11:57.120
The repressive power of the already precarious Victorian Empire, in

266
00:11:57.120 --> 00:12:01.559
its Edwardian Twilight, is mirrored in the impeccunity, and in the

267
00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:03.059
impetence of Sutek himself.

268
00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:05.879
Sutic is actually Queen Victoria, still alive.

269
00:12:05.879 --> 00:12:11.220
Her puppet, which is her son, Edward, is Mark Scarman, mincing

270
00:12:11.220 --> 00:12:14.340
about, and having it off with Lily Langtree, or, indeed, whoever

271
00:12:14.340 --> 00:12:16.200
that be, Ibraham Amin, or whoever it is.

272
00:12:16.259 --> 00:12:21.600
But there are actually lovely mirrors of the culture of England at

273
00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:25.080
the time and the culture of Britain, in the '70s, with the power

274
00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:28.620
strikes, and we've really lost the empire, and the whole thing is

275
00:12:28.620 --> 00:12:29.220
crumbling.

276
00:12:29.279 --> 00:12:32.940
British Leyland is in ruins, the coal miners are on strike.

277
00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:34.679
We're on a three day power week.

278
00:12:34.740 --> 00:12:35.700
OK, that's been resolved.

279
00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:39.600
But Britain's been through a really awful, awful time in 1975.

280
00:12:39.899 --> 00:12:41.639
Let's remember when we were great?

281
00:12:41.759 --> 00:12:43.440
Actually, no, we weren't that great.

282
00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:47.039
There's the sense of that imminent collapse of the Great War

283
00:12:47.039 --> 00:12:48.120
that's just coming up.

284
00:12:48.179 --> 00:12:52.980
So this is a perfect timing, 1911, 1912, that final Indian

285
00:12:52.980 --> 00:12:53.580
summer.

286
00:12:53.639 --> 00:12:56.460
And this script really nails it, and I don't even know if it's

287
00:12:56.460 --> 00:12:56.820
conscious.

288
00:12:56.879 --> 00:12:57.840
I'd like to think it is.

289
00:12:57.899 --> 00:13:03.899
But there's also the restlessness, and the impetus to resume lost

290
00:13:03.899 --> 00:13:07.799
power, but the guilt that comes with that, knowing that power was

291
00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:12.480
built on the suffering and enslavement of others, in this case, of

292
00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:13.259
native cultures.

293
00:13:13.379 --> 00:13:17.580
And then there's, on top of the self confessed goodness of the

294
00:13:17.580 --> 00:13:22.139
comfortably ignorant protagonists, everyone in this is a lovely

295
00:13:22.139 --> 00:13:24.539
charming, fairy tale English person.

296
00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:25.740
Jolly hockey sticks.

297
00:13:25.799 --> 00:13:29.700
Thank you, right down to wearing their lovely three piece tweeds

298
00:13:29.700 --> 00:13:32.940
or their lovely linens, if they're over in the tropical areas.

299
00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:38.940
And also, for instance, Lawrence Scarman knows about Eddie the

300
00:13:38.940 --> 00:13:40.320
Poacher or whatever his name is.

301
00:13:40.379 --> 00:13:42.000
And Tom, yes, Clemence.

302
00:13:42.059 --> 00:13:44.159
Sorry, do you know who plays Clemence, by the way?

303
00:13:44.220 --> 00:13:44.700
Can I?

304
00:13:44.700 --> 00:13:44.940
Yeah.

305
00:13:44.940 --> 00:13:46.559
Is this a Tovi reference?

306
00:13:46.620 --> 00:13:48.600
It's it's Roberta Toby's father.

307
00:13:48.659 --> 00:13:49.559
It really is.

308
00:13:49.620 --> 00:13:50.340
It really is.

309
00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:53.100
He'd do anything to get away from that daughter.

310
00:13:53.159 --> 00:13:54.659
But that's the thing.

311
00:13:54.779 --> 00:13:56.879
The Scarmans know about him.

312
00:13:56.940 --> 00:13:59.340
They don't mind that he's on their land poaching because that's

313
00:13:59.340 --> 00:14:00.600
part of the social structure.

314
00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:01.980
And you're going to have a poacher.

315
00:14:02.039 --> 00:14:04.080
And because he's white and English pig binge, Josh.

316
00:14:04.139 --> 00:14:05.220
I mean, that's really.

317
00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:10.200
But you know what confrounds or what co-ops all of that is this

318
00:14:10.200 --> 00:14:14.340
confronting of the animus of their own colonial greed.

319
00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:16.379
That animus is Sutic.

320
00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:18.840
And I feel that that's why they all have to die.

321
00:14:19.320 --> 00:14:23.940
There's actually the point of we need to take responsibility for

322
00:14:23.940 --> 00:14:26.460
our colonialism, our racism, and our exploitation.

323
00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:29.460
Sutech has to just take responsibility, and so does every white

324
00:14:29.460 --> 00:14:29.759
character.

325
00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:35.580
This is a very powerful story about Britain's empire.

326
00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:38.820
And the colonialism is there from the very first scene where

327
00:14:38.820 --> 00:14:43.440
Scarman breaks into the tomb and then tells off his Egyptian, his

328
00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:45.419
Egyptian, superstitious sandwiches.

329
00:14:45.480 --> 00:14:47.279
Superstitious savages, thank you.

330
00:14:47.340 --> 00:14:49.740
Yeah, and they're speaking their own language, but he's shouting

331
00:14:49.740 --> 00:14:50.639
after them in English.

332
00:14:50.700 --> 00:14:54.059
If you shout it loudly and clearly, everyone will understand.

333
00:14:54.120 --> 00:14:55.259
Yeah, exactly.

334
00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:57.419
But what happens though?

335
00:14:57.480 --> 00:14:58.200
What happens?

336
00:14:58.259 --> 00:15:02.340
The, quote unquote, natives, quote unquote, superstitious savages

337
00:15:02.340 --> 00:15:06.840
who run away don't get killed and have their bodies.

338
00:15:07.740 --> 00:15:11.159
Are they actually the only other other than the doctor and Sarah

339
00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:12.179
the only other people to survive?

340
00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:15.240
Yeah, I think they might be, you know, because they very sensibly

341
00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:18.059
go, oh, this is a bit of a dangerous situation.

342
00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:21.539
I'm going to bugger off. how much you're paying me. quite

343
00:15:21.539 --> 00:15:21.899
sensible.

344
00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:24.659
Look, Holmes, I think we've observed this before.

345
00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:28.139
Holmes has an interesting relationship with colonialism.

346
00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:31.740
He likes satirising it, but mostly because he likes satirising

347
00:15:31.740 --> 00:15:35.220
everything because he is really brutal and cynical.

348
00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:39.840
And we talked about the satire that he does of colonialism in

349
00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:44.700
Carnival of Monsters, where both on board the SS Bernice and in

350
00:15:44.700 --> 00:15:48.779
Inter Minor, There's, you know, exploitation going on that he's

351
00:15:48.779 --> 00:15:49.559
making fun of.

352
00:15:49.620 --> 00:15:53.639
But he's making fun of it, not because he's like an angry young

353
00:15:53.639 --> 00:15:55.080
man who wants to overthrow it.

354
00:15:55.139 --> 00:16:00.059
He does make fun of it in a way that still.

355
00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:02.100
That still appropriates it.

356
00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:07.860
So, for instance, I think Namin is a racist portrayal, and I think

357
00:16:07.860 --> 00:16:09.600
it's slightly uncomfortable.

358
00:16:09.659 --> 00:16:12.059
Like, I think he's cool in lots of ways.

359
00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:16.679
Holmes does satirise colonialism, but I don't think he does it

360
00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:20.100
from an angry, let's burn it down kind of way.

361
00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:24.000
And we're so going to see that at the end of next year, where I

362
00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:29.039
think Holmes really makes it quite clear that however much he

363
00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:32.159
might make fun of something. really loves it as well.

364
00:16:32.220 --> 00:16:36.779
And here there is this sort of lazy boy zone stereotyping of

365
00:16:36.779 --> 00:16:37.379
foreigners.

366
00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:39.960
Do you think we're choking the piss out of Terrence sticks?

367
00:16:40.019 --> 00:16:43.620
Because you look at how Terrence Dicks approaches colonialism, and

368
00:16:43.620 --> 00:16:46.200
you know that, and he's also come out in interviews saying he's

369
00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:48.539
all for it, and the British were the best thing to ever happen to

370
00:16:48.539 --> 00:16:48.840
India.

371
00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:51.000
But he's just doing that to be irritating.

372
00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:54.240
No, he believes that his family were in the army in India.

373
00:16:54.299 --> 00:16:56.820
Terristics is quite palpable on this point.

374
00:16:56.879 --> 00:16:58.559
He feels that it wasn't just cricket.

375
00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:02.580
British colonialism was a force for good entirely.

376
00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:06.059
He's even, you can even look up some of his interviews on that.

377
00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:07.920
I'm not getting this from anything other than the DVDs.

378
00:17:07.980 --> 00:17:09.420
This is what Dick said.

379
00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:13.140
And I think Holmes, because we know how smart Holmes is.

380
00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:16.319
Just as Richard Dawkins invented the term meme.

381
00:17:16.380 --> 00:17:19.559
I reckon that it's Robert Holmes, who invented the term meta

382
00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:24.900
because Robert Holmes comes in onto every damn story he does and

383
00:17:24.900 --> 00:17:27.000
critiques it from a really high place.

384
00:17:27.059 --> 00:17:29.640
He's the queen of the spiders, and I'm sure he was called back

385
00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:30.720
more than once when he was alive.

386
00:17:30.779 --> 00:17:35.220
Truckling over his mountain and just giving all to everybody

387
00:17:35.220 --> 00:17:39.119
else's spiel and showing them up for what they are. in as dark a

388
00:17:39.119 --> 00:17:40.259
way as he can possibly do it.

389
00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:44.880
And Terrence Dix did always talk about, and still always talks

390
00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:49.019
about how much of an iconoclass that Robert Holmes was.

391
00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:53.039
There's a documentary on the 2 Doctors DVD, which is all about

392
00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:56.279
Robert Holmes, which, because of an appearance by Jimmy Savile on

393
00:17:56.279 --> 00:17:59.819
the DVD is currently out of print, you can't buy it new anymore.

394
00:17:59.880 --> 00:18:03.119
The final comment on the documentary on Rob Holmes comes from

395
00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:07.200
Terence Dixon, he said, you know, when we work together in the 70s

396
00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:10.140
you would go out for long lunches to discuss ideas.

397
00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:11.880
But no one ever ate dessert.

398
00:18:11.940 --> 00:18:14.460
The dessert menu would come around.

399
00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:17.759
But, you know, no one who was cultured would ever eat dessert.

400
00:18:17.819 --> 00:18:19.920
It was the thing.

401
00:18:19.980 --> 00:18:21.839
They would put out the dessert menu but you wouldn't touch it.

402
00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:24.599
So you go around the table, Philip Hinchcliffe, no, no dessert.

403
00:18:24.660 --> 00:18:25.680
Barry, lets know, notice it.

404
00:18:25.799 --> 00:18:27.599
Terrence Dix, no, no, dessert.

405
00:18:27.660 --> 00:18:30.240
Robert Holmes, I'll have jam, Roly, Poly and custard.

406
00:18:30.299 --> 00:18:32.460
You know, Chance to prove the point.

407
00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:34.140
He's a monster. isn't he?

408
00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:36.660
And wine and cheese.

409
00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:37.980
Where's John Poo?

410
00:18:38.099 --> 00:18:40.380
Can I talk about the cons then?

411
00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:41.819
You know, like one of them?

412
00:18:42.299 --> 00:18:42.480
Yes.

413
00:18:42.539 --> 00:18:43.859
I think there are a lot of them.

414
00:18:43.980 --> 00:18:47.099
So for instance, let's start.

415
00:18:47.160 --> 00:18:50.339
You mentioned, you know, Bunnings.

416
00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:55.259
So the giant giant plot hole. it is possible to watch it.

417
00:18:55.319 --> 00:18:56.519
Look, I don't care about...

418
00:18:56.640 --> 00:18:57.839
You could pass an a siren through it.

419
00:18:58.380 --> 00:19:00.660
I don't care about plotholes. whatever.

420
00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:03.660
But pretty much the 2nd time that you watch it, you realise that

421
00:19:03.660 --> 00:19:09.059
Horrors has imprisoned his brother in the pyramid with a whole

422
00:19:09.059 --> 00:19:13.680
bunch of servo robots, everything he needs to make a giant missile

423
00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:15.960
a lovely garden share.

424
00:19:16.019 --> 00:19:19.200
Some canopic jars full of force field things.

425
00:19:19.259 --> 00:19:23.220
He's got a lovely widescreen thing from which to watch what's

426
00:19:23.220 --> 00:19:24.779
going on sort of anywhere in the world.

427
00:19:24.839 --> 00:19:27.720
And a friendly helper behind the chair.

428
00:19:27.779 --> 00:19:28.799
We'll get to them.

429
00:19:28.859 --> 00:19:32.519
So it's a giant, like that's, and that's ludicrous and that's been

430
00:19:32.519 --> 00:19:34.799
observed many times, and maybe it doesn't matter, and this is

431
00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:35.700
Doctor Who.

432
00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:36.960
No, it's fantastically observed.

433
00:19:37.019 --> 00:19:42.299
Also, if we can jump to the final episode, how come both sound and

434
00:19:42.299 --> 00:19:47.039
vision can escape the spatial time vortex tunnel through which

435
00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:52.319
Sutek passes, in the end, when he zips him up for 7000 years, but

436
00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:55.619
not Sutek's thoughts themselves, we've seen that Sutek can crush

437
00:19:55.619 --> 00:19:59.160
physically a mind from halfway around the planet.

438
00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:03.960
But he can't do anything to the doctor when he's got when he's got

439
00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:05.220
the meal or washing machine control.

440
00:20:05.220 --> 00:20:08.819
Okay, so let's talk about that while we're talking about cons.

441
00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:10.319
Sanford calls this.

442
00:20:10.380 --> 00:20:10.859
Does it?

443
00:20:10.859 --> 00:20:13.920
The doctor flicks the kill Soutec Lever.

444
00:20:14.039 --> 00:20:16.440
Yeah. and Soo Tex Dead.

445
00:20:16.500 --> 00:20:19.259
And it really is incredibly perfunctory and not very interesting.

446
00:20:20.039 --> 00:20:22.259
The video effects are terrible.

447
00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:25.200
Suddenly, so he takes wearing a dress and has the jackal head and

448
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:25.440
stuff.

449
00:20:25.500 --> 00:20:27.299
And like he looks terribly...

450
00:20:27.420 --> 00:20:28.680
We're back at the Golden Girls again.

451
00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:32.460
There's a minuscule guest cast.

452
00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:35.339
For the 2nd time in a row, they're all men.

453
00:20:35.400 --> 00:20:40.980
No one is very interesting as a character apart from, apart

454
00:20:40.980 --> 00:20:41.460
from...

455
00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:43.680
Well, you don't even see Lawrence really young.

456
00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:44.700
How good is Collins?

457
00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:46.559
Oh, I would, oh, he's fabulous.

458
00:20:46.619 --> 00:20:47.819
Collins is fabulous in there.

459
00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:48.960
And Dr. Warlock.

460
00:20:49.019 --> 00:20:50.160
I really like Dr. Warner.

461
00:20:50.220 --> 00:20:51.240
I love Dr. Warlock.

462
00:20:51.420 --> 00:20:55.920
Oh, he's so, he's so mean and when you, if Parker was not a puppet

463
00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:58.019
and a real, he would be Colin.

464
00:20:58.079 --> 00:21:01.019
But fortunately, he goes after work for Audrey Forbes, Hamilton.

465
00:21:01.740 --> 00:21:03.539
Yeah, that's right.

466
00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:04.859
It was just a flesh wound.

467
00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:06.000
Yeah, yeah, he's fine.

468
00:21:06.059 --> 00:21:08.759
So I don't think I actually don't think the characters are all

469
00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:11.279
that interesting, but whatever, there aren't that many of them and

470
00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:12.000
they're all killed.

471
00:21:12.059 --> 00:21:15.599
So for instance, by episode four, everyone is dead except the

472
00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:16.559
villains and the heroes.

473
00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:19.500
In a few months we're going to have a similar situation where we

474
00:21:19.500 --> 00:21:23.519
have, in this case, a mostly male guest cast who are all killed.

475
00:21:23.579 --> 00:21:25.920
But don't you think they're more interesting?

476
00:21:25.980 --> 00:21:27.960
No, I think that's more interesting.

477
00:21:28.380 --> 00:21:30.720
I think your seeds of doom, but you're not talking...

478
00:21:30.839 --> 00:21:32.220
No, we're talking about horror fang rock.

479
00:21:32.279 --> 00:21:35.460
The one exception, though, the one character who is more

480
00:21:35.460 --> 00:21:37.500
interesting in horror of Fang Rock is Adelaide.

481
00:21:37.619 --> 00:21:41.460
But I like the bitchiness between skin sale and Parmadale.

482
00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:44.400
I like Rico Thingo's character.

483
00:21:44.460 --> 00:21:46.019
It's like you slip sideways in time.

484
00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:46.680
Do you listen?

485
00:21:46.740 --> 00:21:49.079
No, no, no. talk about this next time, but I actually think

486
00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:49.680
they're better.

487
00:21:49.740 --> 00:21:52.980
I think the relationship between the brothers, which because of

488
00:21:52.980 --> 00:21:55.319
the nature of the script has to be carried entirely by Michael

489
00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:55.859
Shears.

490
00:21:55.980 --> 00:21:57.480
Yeah, because the other ones are dead.

491
00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:58.259
And doesn't he do it?

492
00:21:58.259 --> 00:22:01.319
well, it's his best role in that. that heartbreaking moment where

493
00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:03.000
he's trying to remind him with the photograph.

494
00:22:03.059 --> 00:22:05.519
That's that's proper drama.

495
00:22:05.579 --> 00:22:06.180
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

496
00:22:06.180 --> 00:22:09.539
You know, as much as I love the per era as much as I love Barry

497
00:22:09.539 --> 00:22:12.539
Letts and Terence Dick's take on Doctor Who, the only time you get

498
00:22:12.539 --> 00:22:15.839
that in their take on Doctor Who is when it's a regular cast

499
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:21.059
member, you don't get that with a guest cast member until this

500
00:22:21.059 --> 00:22:22.559
point in colour Doctor Who.

501
00:22:22.619 --> 00:22:26.759
I just think it's so close to being just one worthwhile guest cast

502
00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:29.819
member and everyone else is kind of just there for plot reasons.

503
00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:32.819
Clements is a complete waste of time.

504
00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:36.960
He contributes nothing to the plot and just eats up whole...

505
00:22:37.019 --> 00:22:37.440
Yeah.

506
00:22:37.500 --> 00:22:41.460
Clemence is a unit grunt who gets blown up by an auton. yeah If

507
00:22:41.460 --> 00:22:43.859
he'd been his own daughter, he'd have been able to compete.

508
00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:45.299
Now he'd been in it.

509
00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:48.119
That would have been completely entirely army by herself.

510
00:22:48.180 --> 00:22:50.940
Episode 4 is terrible.

511
00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:56.460
And Holmes openly admits to ripping Terry Nation off in the script

512
00:22:56.460 --> 00:23:00.480
by having Sarah say, ooh, it reminds me of City of the Excelons.

513
00:23:00.539 --> 00:23:01.500
She's so right.

514
00:23:01.559 --> 00:23:03.180
Do you know what tribophysics actually is?

515
00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:05.759
It's to do with the movement of the human body?

516
00:23:05.819 --> 00:23:06.900
Even better than that.

517
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:08.339
It's the study of lubrication.

518
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:09.960
Oh, it's okay.

519
00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:11.400
He said in his most sepulchral.

520
00:23:11.460 --> 00:23:15.180
And can I say, dear listener, if you're keen, if you're keen, there

521
00:23:15.180 --> 00:23:18.420
is a journal of tribe of physics from the University of Adelaide

522
00:23:18.420 --> 00:23:20.579
to which you could subscribe right now.

523
00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:22.740
I'll put something in the show notes.

524
00:23:23.579 --> 00:23:27.779
I think this leads to a big con of most of this season in that

525
00:23:27.779 --> 00:23:31.799
it's either got 3 episodes of buildup and then a really poor final

526
00:23:31.799 --> 00:23:37.140
episode or it's got a poor 1st episode and builds to a really

527
00:23:37.140 --> 00:23:37.680
strong finish.

528
00:23:37.740 --> 00:23:41.640
That being said, I don't mind the last episode, but I think it is

529
00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:45.420
really saved by Tom and Liz goofing about and doing the Marx

530
00:23:45.420 --> 00:23:47.640
Brothers routine and what have you.

531
00:23:47.700 --> 00:23:50.339
But at the same time, and this is coming back to something you

532
00:23:50.339 --> 00:23:52.619
were talking about last episode, Nathan, so I suppose we could

533
00:23:52.619 --> 00:23:53.519
lift it onto a con.

534
00:23:53.579 --> 00:23:59.519
We do have that moment where Sarah sort of chastises the doctrine

535
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:02.759
says, look, a man's been murdered and you can just sit and the

536
00:24:02.759 --> 00:24:04.619
doctor points out, look, 4 men have been murdered.

537
00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:06.299
Five actually, if you're counted.

538
00:24:06.420 --> 00:24:07.799
It's got that count wrong though, hasn't it?

539
00:24:07.859 --> 00:24:08.400
It's actually six.

540
00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:14.400
But the main problem I have then is sort of 2 scenes later, Sarah

541
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:18.359
dresses him up in the in the mummy outfit and says it must have

542
00:24:18.359 --> 00:24:19.380
been a nasty accident.

543
00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:20.940
I love that. such a funny joke.

544
00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:24.000
It is a funny joke, but it's like, you know, a couple of minutes

545
00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:25.200
ago you were distraught.

546
00:24:25.259 --> 00:24:28.619
And now and now it's that lack of empathy.

547
00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:29.579
I was talking about.

548
00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:31.740
But isn't that also how humans deal with trauma?

549
00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:34.200
I look at how I deal with work. the other way you can...

550
00:24:34.259 --> 00:24:36.599
And it's the same thing. you know, an hour later, you know, you

551
00:24:36.599 --> 00:24:38.519
might as well make a joke out of it because it's put in the past

552
00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:38.819
now.

553
00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:42.480
I like to think that Sarah is more real by the way she deals with

554
00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:43.140
those traumas.

555
00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:45.900
Well, I'm still alive, I might as well make a joke about it.

556
00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:50.160
Yellow's humour is really big in Hitchcliffe seasons, yeah.

557
00:24:50.220 --> 00:24:52.440
Can we put this in the in the pros column?

558
00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:56.880
Because I think that this is the 1st instance of a trope that...

559
00:24:57.000 --> 00:24:57.660
Sorry, what's that?

560
00:24:57.720 --> 00:24:59.099
Of a thing.

561
00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:02.339
This is the 1st instance of a thing that becomes a staple in

562
00:25:02.339 --> 00:25:06.059
Doctor Who and in particular in the new series where the doctor is

563
00:25:06.059 --> 00:25:09.180
sort of weird and alien because he sees the big picture.

564
00:25:09.240 --> 00:25:10.500
Yes, yes, that's true.

565
00:25:10.619 --> 00:25:15.299
And she, like the companion, whoever it is, is more emotional and

566
00:25:15.299 --> 00:25:16.680
more empathetic and stuff.

567
00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:19.319
And I think you get it in the new series right from the very

568
00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:19.740
beginning.

569
00:25:19.799 --> 00:25:23.339
And I think where in the unquiet dead, the doctor has an alien

570
00:25:23.339 --> 00:25:27.599
kind of viewpoint and rose has a very human viewpoint and they get

571
00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:28.619
into sort of conflict.

572
00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:31.740
And I think that here is really terrific and it's really well

573
00:25:31.740 --> 00:25:32.220
done.

574
00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:35.700
You know, Sarah yells at him and says, but you're not even human

575
00:25:35.700 --> 00:25:37.140
and then she catches herself.

576
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:38.039
Yeah, yeah.

577
00:25:38.099 --> 00:25:40.380
And also that it's very interesting.

578
00:25:40.440 --> 00:25:44.160
I think that's very conscious later on the part of Mark Gatas

579
00:25:44.160 --> 00:25:48.240
because the 1st draft and the 1st quite a few drafts. of the

580
00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:51.839
Unquiet Dead featured a scene where the doctor showed Rose what

581
00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:53.400
the future would be like if it did change.

582
00:25:53.460 --> 00:25:56.579
See, let's put that in the pros column, too.

583
00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:59.039
That goes in the pros.

584
00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:00.839
That's one of my favourite moments from this.

585
00:26:00.900 --> 00:26:02.099
The universe.

586
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:05.700
And it's copped flat from people like Sandover, because logically

587
00:26:05.700 --> 00:26:09.359
within the narrative, they say it's a lacuna, it makes no logical

588
00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:09.599
sense.

589
00:26:09.660 --> 00:26:11.940
It's a pause.

590
00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:13.859
Like, it is a pause in the plot.

591
00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:15.839
It's the time scanner.

592
00:26:15.900 --> 00:26:17.400
It's the space-time visualiser.

593
00:26:17.460 --> 00:26:18.180
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

594
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:19.319
To me, it makes perfect sense.

595
00:26:19.380 --> 00:26:23.519
And it's the 1st time we've seen how tenuous the doctor's life and

596
00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:26.640
therefore our lives actually are because nothing is set in stone.

597
00:26:26.700 --> 00:26:30.900
It completely obliterates Billy's argument that history must be

598
00:26:30.900 --> 00:26:31.440
respected.

599
00:26:31.559 --> 00:26:32.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

600
00:26:32.940 --> 00:26:36.839
But I think it also, it also supports Billy's argument that

601
00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:40.559
history, if we look at underneath, because the first doctor sees

602
00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:43.980
history of sacrosancts, but we now see, because of the fourth

603
00:26:43.980 --> 00:26:47.700
doctor's action here, that history is actually as tenuous and

604
00:26:47.700 --> 00:26:52.619
febrile and in calamitous danger, as the wings of a butterfly

605
00:26:52.619 --> 00:26:54.779
under an Amazon rainfall.

606
00:26:54.900 --> 00:27:00.180
It's so delicate that the merest action can destroy the point at

607
00:27:00.180 --> 00:27:02.400
which you, my child, have come from.

608
00:27:02.460 --> 00:27:03.299
Yes.

609
00:27:03.420 --> 00:27:07.500
He's actually concerned for his companions, and in this case, his

610
00:27:07.500 --> 00:27:08.700
concern for the entire universe.

611
00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:15.119
But the first doctor genuinely understood that as other doctors

612
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:17.640
under the new series have said, the present, the future, the

613
00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:17.819
past.

614
00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:19.079
It's all timey whimey.

615
00:27:19.140 --> 00:27:21.480
It's all in flux, and it can all be rewritten.

616
00:27:21.539 --> 00:27:24.480
The first doctor never revealed that information.

617
00:27:24.539 --> 00:27:28.019
It's only in his fourth incarnation that he feels confident enough

618
00:27:28.019 --> 00:27:32.400
with the relationship with his companion to actually show her the

619
00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:34.200
genuine threat of her own existence.

620
00:27:34.259 --> 00:27:37.859
And I think that's why, 'cause we've touched on this in previous

621
00:27:37.859 --> 00:27:40.980
broadcasts, why the hell, and it should be an inverted commas, why

622
00:27:40.980 --> 00:27:43.319
the hell does Sarah Jane keep climbing back into the TARDAS?

623
00:27:43.380 --> 00:27:45.420
She's, um, parsifile.

624
00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:51.960
She's the knight errant, marching out knowing that the task is

625
00:27:51.960 --> 00:27:57.059
almost insurmountable, but if she doesn't do it, the costs are

626
00:27:57.059 --> 00:27:58.140
irrevocable.

627
00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:00.599
You have to go out there to save the universe.

628
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:04.980
And that has become a primary feature of the new series

629
00:28:04.980 --> 00:28:05.880
companion.

630
00:28:05.940 --> 00:28:08.940
Yeah, it's the only reason Sarah would get back into the TARDIS

631
00:28:08.940 --> 00:28:11.460
because she knows that if she's not there, everything could end.

632
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:15.960
We're going to talk about this quite soon in two weeks' time.

633
00:28:16.019 --> 00:28:17.039
Fabulous.

634
00:28:17.099 --> 00:28:20.640
But I actually think that why she's doing it is contractual

635
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:23.339
obligation and the writers haven't thought it through carefully.

636
00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:28.980
And I think she's a bit into it. in a rather Midlands dirty sort

637
00:28:28.980 --> 00:28:31.920
of way that she kind of, you know, she kind of likes a bit of the

638
00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:34.980
spank, but it's like, oh, God, I hate Brain of Morbius.

639
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:35.640
Are we up to that yet?

640
00:28:35.700 --> 00:28:36.420
No, not yet.

641
00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:38.279
We've still got one more to get through.

642
00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:40.079
Nathan, do you have any more cons for us?

643
00:28:40.140 --> 00:28:43.079
You know, I mean, they're all just sort of stupid little things

644
00:28:43.079 --> 00:28:47.519
but I do think that what I've said is enough to just make me

645
00:28:47.519 --> 00:28:48.059
think.

646
00:28:48.539 --> 00:28:53.339
Why on earth is this in the top 10 best Doctor Who stories ever.

647
00:28:53.400 --> 00:28:55.920
I don't think it's even the best story of the season.

648
00:28:55.980 --> 00:28:59.940
I think that's probably Brain of Morbius, actually, Richard.

649
00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:02.160
Stay tuned.

650
00:29:02.220 --> 00:29:07.680
But and it's all it's all confused by the fact that like you

651
00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:12.599
Richard, I watch this show, you know, once a year during the 70s

652
00:29:12.599 --> 00:29:15.180
if not more frequently, because they would just repeat this.

653
00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:17.160
It was on all the time, listener.

654
00:29:17.220 --> 00:29:17.460
Yeah.

655
00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:20.220
So this is the stuff that I know really well and I actually find

656
00:29:20.220 --> 00:29:25.200
myself watching through season 13 that I like it much, much less

657
00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:26.579
than I expected.

658
00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:27.359
And you know what?

659
00:29:27.420 --> 00:29:28.079
I have to agree with you.

660
00:29:28.140 --> 00:29:31.619
It's not as good as I remember season 13, although this story is

661
00:29:31.619 --> 00:29:34.200
even better than I remember because of things I've already talked

662
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:36.420
about and something I want to allude to in a minute.

663
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:36.779
Go on.

664
00:29:36.900 --> 00:29:40.799
See, I think with this one, because this is one of the most

665
00:29:40.799 --> 00:29:45.660
horrific of the Hinchcliffe Holmes horror stories.

666
00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:49.140
Horror films are always less effective the more you watch them

667
00:29:49.140 --> 00:29:52.200
because you know where the scares are coming from.

668
00:29:52.259 --> 00:29:54.059
You know where the surprises are coming from.

669
00:29:54.119 --> 00:29:54.660
Like a joke.

670
00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:55.440
Like a joke.

671
00:29:55.500 --> 00:29:59.220
What makes the story effective or what is then left that has to

672
00:29:59.220 --> 00:30:02.700
make the story effective is the script and the acting and the

673
00:30:02.700 --> 00:30:03.119
casting.

674
00:30:03.180 --> 00:30:08.819
And I do get your point, Nathan, that the guest characters, a lot

675
00:30:08.819 --> 00:30:10.259
of them are there just to sort of get killed off.

676
00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:13.680
But they are still interesting characters.

677
00:30:13.740 --> 00:30:15.059
They do still have relationships.

678
00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:17.400
They come on, they play their part, they die beautifully.

679
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:20.579
The doctor and Sarah are very good together.

680
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:22.079
There's lots of witty moments in the script.

681
00:30:22.140 --> 00:30:25.799
It's so well directed by Patty Russell, who, uh, that scene we

682
00:30:25.799 --> 00:30:28.319
were talking about earlier with the future decimated Earth.

683
00:30:28.380 --> 00:30:30.839
Philip Hinchcliffe wanted to show the Tahnest landing on the

684
00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:33.059
Decimated Earth, and then the doors open and then we see it.

685
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:36.000
And Patty Russell said, no, it has to be seen the same time Sarah

686
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:38.160
sees it. because she's our audience.

687
00:30:38.220 --> 00:30:40.619
Patty Russell. really understands this show.

688
00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:43.319
How interesting that she and Tom did not get on.

689
00:30:43.380 --> 00:30:47.759
Well, apparently they didn't to start with, but then when Tom

690
00:30:47.759 --> 00:30:52.859
realised that she was there to do a job and she meant business and

691
00:30:52.859 --> 00:30:54.059
damn well get on with it.

692
00:30:54.119 --> 00:30:56.400
He actually developed a great deal of respect for her and called

693
00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:59.700
her sir, which, of course, now that's very, that's very

694
00:30:59.700 --> 00:31:01.079
uncomfortably safe.

695
00:31:01.140 --> 00:31:06.180
Tom had to be corralled like an enormous bulk in these and what a

696
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:07.259
shame that's a soon to go.

697
00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:10.980
We do know the story that Paddy made him dress up in one of those

698
00:31:10.980 --> 00:31:12.119
terrible mummy costumes.

699
00:31:12.180 --> 00:31:13.680
Because he was such an arse.

700
00:31:13.740 --> 00:31:16.200
Yeah, it was.

701
00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:16.859
Yeah, it was.

702
00:31:16.920 --> 00:31:20.220
And of course, you know, Liz Laden had a bit of a problem with her

703
00:31:20.220 --> 00:31:23.099
because Liz Jenner Rad said, where would Sarah learn to fire a

704
00:31:23.099 --> 00:31:23.759
rifle?

705
00:31:23.819 --> 00:31:26.339
And she's like, it's in the script, darling.

706
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:27.720
You're from Liverpool.

707
00:31:27.779 --> 00:31:28.980
It's really rough.

708
00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:32.400
You know, you've spent a year and a half working on and off with

709
00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:32.880
the military.

710
00:31:32.940 --> 00:31:36.359
Yeah, exactly. where the hell are you going to learn mediaeval

711
00:31:36.359 --> 00:31:36.839
Latin?

712
00:31:37.019 --> 00:31:37.980
Oh no, that's Barry Letts.

713
00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:39.779
But, you know, there's lots of things, Sarah.

714
00:31:39.839 --> 00:31:41.460
I mean, we can go through and point out if you want to.

715
00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:44.099
There's lots of things Sarah has obviously learned in the in

716
00:31:43.559 --> 00:31:44.759
betweeny stories.

717
00:31:44.819 --> 00:31:45.839
No I have no problem.

718
00:31:45.900 --> 00:31:48.299
And here's someone who doesn't need a hand on his cushion.

719
00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:49.079
It's Todd.

720
00:31:49.140 --> 00:31:50.700
Brilliant.

721
00:31:50.819 --> 00:31:53.880
Is he going to read these questions off the auto cue each time?

722
00:31:57.779 --> 00:32:06.299
I bring Sutek's gift of questions to you all. 1980 or not 1980.

723
00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:09.119
It's not a continuity problem yet.

724
00:32:09.180 --> 00:32:12.480
Do you think people just need to build a bridge and get over it?

725
00:32:12.539 --> 00:32:18.420
I remember as a kid that 1980, or coming into 1980 was a really

726
00:32:18.420 --> 00:32:21.000
big deal, much like the year 2000.

727
00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:25.799
Personally, I just think that Sarah has been overdramatic and

728
00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:27.420
rounding up tonight, 1980.

729
00:32:27.539 --> 00:32:31.799
Sure, she could have said almost 1980, but I don't have a problem

730
00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:32.400
with it.

731
00:32:32.460 --> 00:32:38.640
But then I always think that Doctor Who is set at the time it's

732
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:42.599
recorded not 2 or 3 years in the future, like the production

733
00:32:42.599 --> 00:32:42.839
team.

734
00:32:42.900 --> 00:32:44.400
Do you guys have a problem with it?

735
00:32:44.460 --> 00:32:48.599
Oh, look, I've just got some chunk mail.

736
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:50.880
Sick if you're a time bubble.

737
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:53.640
Come try our new space shells.

738
00:32:53.700 --> 00:32:58.380
They'll leave you feeling like a whole brand new U. Yours

739
00:32:58.380 --> 00:33:00.660
sincerely, Mr Stigren.

740
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:02.819
Hmm, I must go and see what that's all about.

741
00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:06.180
This is going to be a slightly longer than usual flight through

742
00:33:06.180 --> 00:33:10.200
entirety because I have been hinting this for a long time.

743
00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:14.759
You finally get treated to my unit dating theory.

744
00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:16.740
Da da da da.

745
00:33:16.859 --> 00:33:19.500
I love the music queue and there needs to have been the music

746
00:33:19.500 --> 00:33:20.279
queue right there.

747
00:33:20.339 --> 00:33:21.599
So, pretty much.

748
00:33:21.660 --> 00:33:23.160
How did you just Up until now.

749
00:33:23.220 --> 00:33:23.579
I know.

750
00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:24.599
I'm so talented.

751
00:33:24.660 --> 00:33:29.279
We get the confirmation that Sarah is from 1980.

752
00:33:29.460 --> 00:33:32.640
Now, she's talking about the time she most recently left Earth.

753
00:33:32.700 --> 00:33:35.339
So let's call that robot Tear of the Zygons.

754
00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:40.319
Working backwards from there, that means...

755
00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:42.299
I'd like to say it's actually Time Warrior.

756
00:33:42.359 --> 00:33:43.859
She's from 1980.

757
00:33:43.980 --> 00:33:46.440
She meets the doctor in 1980.

758
00:33:46.619 --> 00:33:50.519
Well, I was going to put season 11 in 1979, so she travels off

759
00:33:50.519 --> 00:33:54.359
with him full time in 1980, but saying that's 1980 as well still

760
00:33:54.359 --> 00:33:57.480
works. 1978, we have season 10.

761
00:33:57.779 --> 00:34:01.740
That's when Guy Crayford vanishes, who we will meet in the next

762
00:34:01.740 --> 00:34:04.500
story because Sarah mentions I was here on a story 2 years ago.

763
00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:08.699
So that would have been contemporaneous with Joe's last year. 1977

764
00:34:08.699 --> 00:34:13.559
in season nine, 1976 is season eight, 1975, is season seven.

765
00:34:13.619 --> 00:34:15.659
Now from here, I'm going to go back to the start of the unit

766
00:34:15.659 --> 00:34:16.199
timeline.

767
00:34:16.260 --> 00:34:21.719
Start of the unit timeline is 1935, the abominable snowman.

768
00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:24.420
So we had the abominable snowmen.

769
00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:27.960
When we next see Professor Travers in the web of fear, he says

770
00:34:27.960 --> 00:34:30.659
that it's been...

771
00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:35.400
Well, he says 40, but I make it 35 just because, yeah, he's

772
00:34:35.400 --> 00:34:35.880
rounding up.

773
00:34:35.940 --> 00:34:38.400
He's an archeologist, he's got no idea about maths.

774
00:34:38.460 --> 00:34:39.179
Of course not.

775
00:34:39.239 --> 00:34:44.280
Okay, so 1935 is the abominable snowman. 1970 is the web of fear

776
00:34:44.579 --> 00:34:49.440
1974 is the invasion because the brigadier says it's been 4 years

777
00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:50.519
since I last.

778
00:34:50.579 --> 00:34:54.179
Isn't it cited that it's 75 somewhere, either in the novel or the

779
00:34:54.179 --> 00:34:54.539
script.

780
00:34:54.599 --> 00:34:56.880
It's a fabulous novel, by the way, by...

781
00:34:56.940 --> 00:34:58.199
We are only getting what's on tally.

782
00:34:58.260 --> 00:34:59.519
Again, not the series exercise.

783
00:34:59.579 --> 00:35:05.280
Season 7 then therefore takes place in 1975 because the brigadier

784
00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:10.260
in Robot says, and sorry, in Planet of the Spider says, last time

785
00:35:10.260 --> 00:35:12.659
he went off missing, he was away for months.

786
00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:15.360
And when he came back, he had a new face.

787
00:35:15.420 --> 00:35:17.820
So I'm taking that as the year changeover.

788
00:35:17.880 --> 00:35:20.880
So that gives us Sarah Janers from 1980.

789
00:35:21.059 --> 00:35:24.059
The problem then becomes later on.

790
00:35:24.119 --> 00:35:25.559
Morden undead.

791
00:35:25.619 --> 00:35:26.340
Morden undead.

792
00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:30.300
The brigadier states that he left the army in 1977. and his mind

793
00:35:30.300 --> 00:35:30.780
was wiped.

794
00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:31.679
And hello.

795
00:35:31.739 --> 00:35:35.280
Mrs. Thatcher was not Prime Minister when the Zygons were forming

796
00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:37.139
their incursion on some quarry.

797
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:37.860
Ah, but they were.

798
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:39.960
She was because that's said in 1980.

799
00:35:40.139 --> 00:35:42.300
In the original timeline.

800
00:35:42.360 --> 00:35:44.099
1980. in the original timeline.

801
00:35:44.219 --> 00:35:47.880
Okay, come on, come on. to deal with Morden, auntie.

802
00:35:47.940 --> 00:35:48.840
I am about to.

803
00:35:48.900 --> 00:35:50.820
Now, have another drink, listener.

804
00:35:51.300 --> 00:35:53.519
The reason I am bringing this up.

805
00:35:53.579 --> 00:35:55.800
I'm just passing Richard the Wang.

806
00:35:55.860 --> 00:35:56.760
He's gonna need it.

807
00:35:56.820 --> 00:36:00.300
The reason I'm bringing this up in Pyramid of Miles is because at

808
00:36:00.300 --> 00:36:05.280
the end of the story, The doctor sends Sutek down a time corridor

809
00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:06.360
to the end of the universe.

810
00:36:06.420 --> 00:36:07.559
I wish you could do that with cats.

811
00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:13.679
The doctor has already stated that it takes a being of Sutec's

812
00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:15.719
unlimited power to destroy the future.

813
00:36:15.780 --> 00:36:17.639
Completely, yes, yes.

814
00:36:17.699 --> 00:36:20.699
Now, the thing is, he's not just saying there Soutech can change

815
00:36:20.699 --> 00:36:21.420
timelines.

816
00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:26.519
He's saying Soutec has an effect on timelines beyond... the time

817
00:36:26.519 --> 00:36:30.599
space continuum itself, but certainly the reality of time as we

818
00:36:30.599 --> 00:36:31.079
perceive it.

819
00:36:31.139 --> 00:36:34.860
So if you're standing on a train platform, too close, you're over

820
00:36:34.860 --> 00:36:37.260
the yellow line, you're right next to it and a train whizzes past

821
00:36:37.260 --> 00:36:37.800
you, what happens?

822
00:36:38.579 --> 00:36:41.400
There's this tug of air as you go past.

823
00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:45.539
It is my conjecture that as Soutek is moving forward through time

824
00:36:45.539 --> 00:36:50.940
he pulls time out of shape, he pulls time backwards 5 years.

825
00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:52.920
He's travelling from 1911.

826
00:36:53.099 --> 00:36:55.980
So that gives us abominable snowmen in 1930.

827
00:36:56.280 --> 00:36:58.380
Weather fear in 1965.

828
00:36:58.619 --> 00:37:01.199
The invasion in 1969.

829
00:37:01.380 --> 00:37:05.760
The Pertwi era takes place from 1970 to 1974.

830
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:10.019
Robot tear up the zygons, android invasion and seeds of doom

831
00:37:10.019 --> 00:37:12.780
android invasion seeds of doom are now in the new timeline, so

832
00:37:12.780 --> 00:37:17.519
that's 1975, meaning the brig can retire in 1977, Benton can

833
00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:18.900
retire in 1979.

834
00:37:19.139 --> 00:37:24.360
And when Sarah returns home Finally, we learn in canine and

835
00:37:24.360 --> 00:37:26.699
company that Lavinia hasn't seen her in years.

836
00:37:26.760 --> 00:37:29.880
It's because she's lying low because she knows she's in the wrong

837
00:37:29.880 --> 00:37:30.480
timeline.

838
00:37:30.539 --> 00:37:31.679
Brilliant.

839
00:37:31.739 --> 00:37:33.179
You heard it here first, listener.

840
00:37:33.300 --> 00:37:35.639
I think that might have really happened actually.

841
00:37:35.699 --> 00:37:37.440
That universe.

842
00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:39.719
This podcast has rebooted timey wimey.

843
00:37:39.780 --> 00:37:43.199
And there's one more piece of evidence, which I will mention in

844
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:45.239
the Android invasion next week.

845
00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:47.579
Do you know what I reckon?

846
00:37:47.699 --> 00:37:49.260
That's the only thing that's going to keep me listening.

847
00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:50.039
Yeah it is.

848
00:37:50.099 --> 00:37:52.019
Do you know what I reckon is the best thing about this story

849
00:37:52.019 --> 00:37:52.500
again?

850
00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:53.940
in the day call.

851
00:37:54.719 --> 00:37:59.519
It's not just Sutex, Sutex's little outfit, which is up a Nile, by

852
00:37:59.519 --> 00:37:59.820
the way.

853
00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:03.300
And we won't, if we want to get into the whole hagiography.

854
00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:05.699
Is it hagiography for the history of gods?

855
00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:06.539
No, that's saints.

856
00:38:06.780 --> 00:38:11.880
Anyway, Sutex headpiece does reflect up on aisle, but look, he's

857
00:38:11.880 --> 00:38:12.539
sitting there.

858
00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:15.239
It's been 6,300 years.

859
00:38:15.300 --> 00:38:16.920
It's a disgrace.

860
00:38:16.980 --> 00:38:21.840
I can hear him just sitting there in this place. is so mardy.

861
00:38:21.900 --> 00:38:23.400
I am so over it.

862
00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:25.079
Hang on, hang on about.

863
00:38:25.139 --> 00:38:27.000
There's these new decorators.

864
00:38:27.059 --> 00:38:27.840
What are they called again?

865
00:38:27.900 --> 00:38:30.179
Boner organic crystallographers.

866
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:31.440
They've just moved in.

867
00:38:31.500 --> 00:38:33.239
Because we were still 700 years ago.

868
00:38:33.300 --> 00:38:34.440
This works with your timeline.

869
00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:37.440
I'll get Broton and his lovely friend, the caper in.

870
00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:38.760
It wasn't EYE does.

871
00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:39.300
Anyway.

872
00:38:39.420 --> 00:38:40.440
And you'll get these.

873
00:38:40.500 --> 00:38:43.739
Anyway, if he comes in, you can hear, brother, go...

874
00:38:43.800 --> 00:38:48.659
And we go, ooh, what you need, a bit of Dinachrom thrust all over

875
00:38:48.659 --> 00:38:49.139
this place.

876
00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:49.800
Bit of colour.

877
00:38:49.860 --> 00:38:53.219
Because have you noticed that the walls of Sutek's tomb are

878
00:38:53.219 --> 00:38:54.119
exactly the same?

879
00:38:54.179 --> 00:38:59.579
as the walls of the Zygon spaceship, the actual effects, the

880
00:38:59.579 --> 00:39:00.179
painting effects?

881
00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:01.800
We notice these things, do, listener?

882
00:39:01.860 --> 00:39:02.940
So you don't have to.

883
00:39:03.059 --> 00:39:06.360
And you can hear, you can hear him, he's coming in with the cave

884
00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:10.380
with all red beard and all glory, saying, oh, oh, isn't it

885
00:39:10.380 --> 00:39:10.679
dreadful?

886
00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:12.000
And he's like, oh, Mr...

887
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:13.320
Mr. Tutek, what are your needs?

888
00:39:13.380 --> 00:39:14.280
What you need?

889
00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:16.980
A triage of errands up your dado.

890
00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:20.340
Or the cable could run up a nice flock for you.

891
00:39:20.519 --> 00:39:23.219
Anyway, laying about and make suggestions.

892
00:39:23.340 --> 00:39:26.579
We could do the whole place up as a pizza marinari, your luck and

893
00:39:26.579 --> 00:39:27.900
calamari. anyway.

894
00:39:27.960 --> 00:39:32.039
Because the city says, no, but I came a bit taken with the ginger

895
00:39:32.039 --> 00:39:32.579
beard.

896
00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:37.679
And that's why there's a hand behind 2 texture plump in his

897
00:39:37.679 --> 00:39:38.159
cushion.

898
00:39:38.219 --> 00:39:42.599
Because it's the cable from all those 100s of years ago going

899
00:39:42.599 --> 00:39:45.300
staying on and doing the job. anyway, that's what I think

900
00:39:45.300 --> 00:39:45.659
happened.

901
00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:03.119
Dear listeners, after that trip up and down several timelines, we

902
00:40:03.119 --> 00:40:04.320
just ran up a quick one for you.

903
00:40:04.380 --> 00:40:07.139
That's all the time we have for Pyramids of Mars.

904
00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:10.440
We'll be back next week to talk about, possibly the best story of

905
00:40:10.440 --> 00:40:12.900
the season, according to Nathan, the Android invasion.

906
00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:17.039
But until then, may all your cushions not stick to your bottom and

907
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:18.420
require a hand to remove them.

908
00:40:18.480 --> 00:40:23.099
Please find us on Facebook and iTunes under Flightthrough Entirety

909
00:40:23.099 --> 00:40:26.460
FTE podcast on Twitter and FlightthroughEntirety.com.

910
00:40:26.519 --> 00:40:27.539
Thank you very much for listening.

911
00:40:27.599 --> 00:40:28.500
Review us and good night.

912
00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:29.400
Good night.

913
00:40:29.460 --> 00:40:32.460
Oh, denials, not just a river in Egypt, is it?

914
00:40:32.519 --> 00:40:33.000
Good night.

915
00:40:36.420 --> 00:40:39.119
That was flight to entirety.

916
00:40:39.179 --> 00:40:41.820
Nathan Beverly, Brendan Jones and Richard Stone.

917
00:40:41.880 --> 00:40:46.320
This episode, he's always a villain, was recorded on July 5th.

918
00:40:46.380 --> 00:40:49.199
The next episode will be released on August 16th.

919
00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:51.420
I know how Su Tech feels.

920
00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:55.260
The last time I had Sweaty Joe Knight, I woke up stuck to a chair

921
00:40:55.260 --> 00:40:57.119
wearing a rubber dress in Egypt as well.

922
00:41:04.920 --> 00:41:07.139
No, we've already done that.

923
00:41:07.380 --> 00:41:11.159
That's the tag. already done.

924
00:41:12.840 --> 00:41:14.639
That's great.

925
00:41:15.059 --> 00:41:17.219
That's so good.

926
00:41:17.280 --> 00:41:19.320
Even this at the end of the season.

927
00:41:19.380 --> 00:41:20.460
Just leave that in.

928
00:41:20.519 --> 00:41:23.820
If only someone had said that to Hinchcliffe and Holmes.

929
00:41:25.500 --> 00:41:27.960
Doctor Fimes rises again.

930
00:41:28.019 --> 00:41:30.300
He's still trying to...

931
00:41:30.300 --> 00:41:33.360
Grow up, Richard.