WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:16:49 1 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:37.380 Hello and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast with the warning label, No Touch Todd could be dangerous. 2 00:00:37.439 --> 00:00:38.460 I'm Brendan. 3 00:00:38.520 --> 00:00:39.359 I Nathan. 4 00:00:39.420 --> 00:00:40.079 Me too. 5 00:00:41.100 --> 00:00:43.380 How can I come back from that? 6 00:00:43.500 --> 00:00:49.619 And we're taking a helicopter down to Antarctica to battle the seeds of doom. 7 00:00:58.740 --> 00:01:02.280 Oh, I can start if you like. 8 00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:03.600 Oh, Tor is mine. 9 00:01:03.659 --> 00:01:05.879 I don't know, you know... 10 00:01:05.879 --> 00:01:09.480 I have been I've been gifted with this one, which is coming for surprisingly. 11 00:01:09.540 --> 00:01:15.239 We loved this and it was one of the very later ones to be released on DVD because fan law says it's just terrific. 12 00:01:15.299 --> 00:01:25.260 And yet, in later fan criticism, the gods who criticise such as Tat Wood and such as Santa, and such as Nathan Bottomley, and Tog. 13 00:01:25.319 --> 00:01:27.719 Well, I don't know, I'm kind of with them as well. 14 00:01:27.780 --> 00:01:35.579 Again, tonally, it doesn't quite fit with the nature of what we understand Doctor Who to be because it's so violent. 15 00:01:35.640 --> 00:01:36.840 And it is a lot of other films. 16 00:01:36.900 --> 00:01:51.659 But then we've also, if you've, if you've deigned to listen to the entirety of this podcast, we've always said Doctor Who has been great because it's never been so much about Doctor Who, but about everything else being within the realm of the Doctor Who universe. 17 00:01:51.719 --> 00:01:56.879 So this is a lot of other films and a lot of other ideas then put under the Doctor Who umbrella. 18 00:01:56.939 --> 00:01:59.099 So it is hugely popular. 19 00:01:59.159 --> 00:02:05.219 And, you know, the for the 50th anniversary, DWM, you know, Doctor Who magazine did a poll the 1st 50 years. 20 00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:06.299 I referred to it before. 21 00:02:06.299 --> 00:02:09.659 These came 20th out of 241 stories. 22 00:02:09.719 --> 00:02:14.759 It is massively popular, but as Richard says, both Tat Wood and Philip Sander. 23 00:02:14.819 --> 00:02:18.719 Tatwood says it's his least favourite story of Tom's 1st 6 seasons. 24 00:02:18.780 --> 00:02:31.680 Philip Sander thinks that the violence in it is irresponsible, but in fact, we see Hinchcliffe taken off the program, essentially, at the end of next year, partly because of an outcry from the Mary White House. 25 00:02:31.740 --> 00:02:44.759 Or is it because the Target, because this while we're on the topic of one, which was the BBC's answer to an incredibly popular thing that the Avengers producers were doing called the Professionals with Lewis Collins and Martin Shaw. 26 00:02:44.819 --> 00:02:48.000 And that was the nature of TV at the time. 27 00:02:48.060 --> 00:02:51.659 It was gritty ultraviolence, urban realistic violence, I should say. 28 00:02:51.719 --> 00:02:54.120 And very, really Doctor Who's just responding to that. 29 00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:54.599 That's right. 30 00:02:54.659 --> 00:02:57.360 But when Hinchcliffe gets taken off and Williams replaces him. 31 00:02:57.419 --> 00:03:00.900 You know, he's told that he's not to do that violence and horror anymore. 32 00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:02.219 There's kind of a direct. 33 00:03:02.759 --> 00:03:09.000 So Sandaphase, Hinchcliffe is irresponsibly playing with fire by making a story quite as violent as this. 34 00:03:09.060 --> 00:03:10.800 But what's violent about it exactly? 35 00:03:10.860 --> 00:03:12.659 Like why people say this? 36 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:19.740 physical violence that is actually repeatable by children, that the, and come on, that compost. 37 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:21.180 It's pretty... 38 00:03:21.180 --> 00:03:23.099 It's pretty tumulture. 39 00:03:23.159 --> 00:03:40.439 But even before we get there, we've got quite extreme body horror, and I would say even worse body horror than in the arc in space, because the crinoid makeup for when it's taking over a person, because it's plant-based, it's easier to replicate than an alien life form, obviously. 40 00:03:40.500 --> 00:03:43.319 So it looks, it looks more convincing. 41 00:03:43.379 --> 00:03:51.060 And the later horror anthology film creep show would do a similar plot line with vegetation growing on someone. 42 00:03:51.120 --> 00:03:53.520 And again, even though the effects in that are better. 43 00:03:53.580 --> 00:03:55.740 The horror still remains in this case. 44 00:03:55.860 --> 00:03:56.520 So we have that. 45 00:03:56.580 --> 00:04:03.360 We have, um, the doctor and Sarah being tied to various bombs over the course of the story, things that have gone. 46 00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:05.219 I love it when they tie people to bombs. 47 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:06.419 I'm a huge fan of that. 48 00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:08.219 We've got we've got Scorbi. 49 00:04:08.280 --> 00:04:18.779 And until now, sort of villains and henchmen in colour Doctor Who often have a sense of humour or a wry sense of humour, as we saw, with soul and last story, he's quite funny and witty. 50 00:04:18.839 --> 00:04:21.959 Scorbi doesn't have any real wit about him. 51 00:04:22.019 --> 00:04:28.259 You know, he's actually a really nasty character, which is funny because when you see John Challis interviewed, John Challis was very plummy and hello. 52 00:04:28.319 --> 00:04:29.220 Oh is he really? 53 00:04:29.279 --> 00:04:29.759 Yeah, yeah. 54 00:04:29.759 --> 00:04:33.240 He actually says that he had this rough looking face. 55 00:04:33.300 --> 00:04:40.860 So when he was out in pubs, he's like, you know, these very big, heavy med would come up and say, want to dance? 56 00:04:40.920 --> 00:04:44.279 He actually says, then come up and say, oh, I want to play. 57 00:04:44.339 --> 00:04:45.240 I want to buy you a drink. 58 00:04:45.300 --> 00:04:47.579 And he's like... 59 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:49.379 He's like, okay, okay, okay, okay. 60 00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:59.579 And saw it as a bit of an acting challenge to then not totally misrepresent himself, but to at least, you know, chop off his... chop off his words and what have you. 61 00:04:59.639 --> 00:05:05.339 But he said that helped him immeasurably with when he got these heavy type roles. 62 00:05:05.399 --> 00:05:12.360 And he's like, you know, it's amazing because I look like a heavy, but I don't, there's nothing about that with me in real life. 63 00:05:12.420 --> 00:05:14.519 But the Scorbi character is lifted. 64 00:05:14.579 --> 00:05:20.759 This is what we're referring to earlier, lifted directly from the current schedules of other television. 65 00:05:20.819 --> 00:05:21.240 Yeah, absolutely. 66 00:05:21.300 --> 00:05:23.100 He's very, very professional. 67 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:40.379 Well, there were questions in Parliament at the time about these British mercenaries that were in the Angolan war, which only lasted 20 days, but there were there were a whole lot of problems with British and Irish military men who really were too wacked, as in psychotic, to stay in the army. 68 00:05:40.439 --> 00:05:44.220 British Army were having a purge at the time of recalcitrants, shall we say? 69 00:05:44.279 --> 00:05:55.500 So in all the turf wars and the oil wars in the Middle East, it was full of Brits and Irish psychos, and it was being, it was so known and so reported on that it was being repeated in films and television. 70 00:05:55.560 --> 00:05:57.660 And he explicitly says he's been in the Middle East. 71 00:05:57.720 --> 00:05:58.680 He does, exactly. 72 00:05:58.740 --> 00:06:02.399 It directly references that because there were questions in Parliament at the time. 73 00:06:02.459 --> 00:06:03.120 So it was on the news. 74 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:09.959 But it's funny that you mentioned those films because, of course, we haven't got to the greatest villain of probably all time, Harrison Chase. 75 00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:16.379 Well, we have now our 1st question for this episode from Todd. 76 00:06:16.439 --> 00:06:18.300 These together, Todd, we can see up here. 77 00:06:18.360 --> 00:06:26.579 I can't believe that I am stuck here in my time bubble, whilst you guys get to talk about one of my most favourite stories of all time. 78 00:06:26.819 --> 00:06:33.420 One of the strengths of this production, the supporting characters and how they are portrayed. 79 00:06:33.959 --> 00:06:44.339 In particular, Mr. Dunbar, Hargraves, the butler, and Mr. Tequila, all 3 actors give tremendous performances. 80 00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:55.560 Obviously, 3 of the most memorable performances in Doctor Who are those of Harrison Chase, Scorbi, and Amelia Ducas. 81 00:06:55.620 --> 00:06:59.279 In fact, Richard, I think you are Amelia Ducar. 82 00:06:59.339 --> 00:07:03.959 And despite everything, I really wanted Scorbi to live. 83 00:07:04.019 --> 00:07:06.240 Your thoughts, gentlemen. 84 00:07:06.300 --> 00:07:21.180 I have to say that, again, one of the reasons this story outshines other stories in season 13 is just the incredible set of guest characters, and I think that they're all really interesting. like Mobley and Winleton, they're all terribly disposable, but they're dead quite soon. 85 00:07:21.240 --> 00:07:22.500 But the humour is lovely. 86 00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:25.800 And yeah, they are well drawn for such small characters. 87 00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:28.379 And the tonality is exactly right. 88 00:07:28.439 --> 00:07:30.240 It feels genuine when they're in that base. 89 00:07:30.300 --> 00:07:31.620 Lovely designs too. 90 00:07:31.740 --> 00:07:36.899 But you've got Scorbi, Dunbar, Amelia Ducant. 91 00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:40.199 So Colin, Colin, the virtual new companion. 92 00:07:40.259 --> 00:07:42.540 They ask him off on the... 93 00:07:42.600 --> 00:07:43.439 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 94 00:07:43.500 --> 00:07:44.339 Wouldn't that have been great? 95 00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:47.639 It would have been terrific in Masks of Mandranger, wouldn't it? 96 00:07:47.699 --> 00:07:49.860 My wife is expecting me home fatigue. 97 00:07:50.220 --> 00:07:56.279 And they're all, they're all really fun and enjoyable characters and it really, really matters. 98 00:07:56.339 --> 00:08:04.680 You know, there's a kind of boy's own adventure approach where, you know, so long as people have guns and are sort of running around that imperil and stuff, that's entertaining enough. 99 00:08:04.680 --> 00:08:06.240 And that gave us planet of evil. 100 00:08:06.300 --> 00:08:13.500 But here, you've got actual, you know, really, really interesting characters, and really interesting relationships between characters. 101 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:16.560 Keila and Scorbia are fantastic together. 102 00:08:16.620 --> 00:08:18.180 And Keila is wonderful. 103 00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:24.660 There's a scene where he ties up Stevenson in episode 2 and he says, excuse me before he comes. 104 00:08:24.660 --> 00:08:26.279 And then he says, sorry when he's finished. 105 00:08:26.339 --> 00:08:28.379 You know, he's delightful. 106 00:08:28.439 --> 00:08:31.980 Harrison Ford is absolutely uproar Harrison Ford. 107 00:08:32.039 --> 00:08:33.899 One of us was bound to do it. 108 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:36.840 Harrison Chase is uproariously funny. 109 00:08:36.899 --> 00:08:39.840 There's that scene again in episode three. 110 00:08:39.899 --> 00:08:41.220 The crinoid's not in it. 111 00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:50.399 We're just introduced to Harrison Chase, you know, the doctor and Sarah are there and he's playing that terrible, terrible music. absolutely straight. 112 00:08:50.460 --> 00:08:57.720 Not for a 2nd Is there a moment of self-awareness or anything like that in Chase's demeanour. 113 00:08:57.779 --> 00:09:01.080 He plays it completely straight and he's absolutely ridiculous. 114 00:09:01.139 --> 00:09:05.340 I also love, I think it's his very 1st line or close to it. 115 00:09:05.399 --> 00:09:09.539 What are you doing about the savage art of Bonsai? 116 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:11.879 Mutilation and torture, Mr. Dunbar. 117 00:09:11.940 --> 00:09:19.620 For someone who, for someone who objects to Bonsai, there's an awful lot of topiary, you know, in his estate. 118 00:09:19.679 --> 00:09:24.419 Maybe he anaesthetises those plants first. before carving them into pyramids. 119 00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:26.820 I think you're talking about him playing it straight. 120 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:30.480 Have you seen the Italian job? 121 00:09:30.539 --> 00:09:32.279 It's right to make... 122 00:09:32.340 --> 00:09:34.740 The original in the original... 123 00:09:34.799 --> 00:09:35.820 Is he called Camp Freddy? 124 00:09:35.879 --> 00:09:36.419 thank you. 125 00:09:36.480 --> 00:09:39.000 He is Camp Freddy in that and one of the best characters in it. 126 00:09:39.059 --> 00:09:43.740 So I think that there's some longevity in his character. clearly, you know, he's clearly playing game. 127 00:09:43.860 --> 00:09:47.340 Oh, he's the anti-Mr. Humphreys from IUB, so... 128 00:09:47.399 --> 00:09:52.620 But it's a lack of humour and a lack of self-awareness, which is wonderful. a great villain. 129 00:09:52.679 --> 00:09:54.600 Yeah, he's hilarious, but at no point. 130 00:09:54.659 --> 00:09:56.399 Is he trying to make a joke? 131 00:09:56.460 --> 00:10:00.419 No Oh, no, but he has endless funny lines. 132 00:10:00.480 --> 00:10:08.039 Remember Dunbar explains that he's taking the bribe because all these, you know, worthless non-entities have been promotion above him. 133 00:10:08.100 --> 00:10:11.039 He just goes, yes, that must be most calling. 134 00:10:12.299 --> 00:10:16.620 He's just terrific. you know, in every scene he's in. 135 00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:26.399 And I think, I think the tension in the story, and I think the thing that saves it from the accusation of being too violent is that there are 2 things going. 136 00:10:26.460 --> 00:10:36.179 There is the professionals and there's, you know, everyone, including the doctor carrying guns, you know, the private army, the mercenaries, the body horror and stuff. 137 00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:43.139 But then there's there's Amelia Ducart, and there's Colin, and then there's, you know, Harrison Chase, and there's the whole premise. 138 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:44.759 The whole premise is utterly ludicrous. 139 00:10:44.820 --> 00:10:57.299 Like, all I can say, or all I can think when I see Harrison Chase's estate is, you know, overrun by men carrying machine guns is that the Chelsea Flower show must be just absolute hell in the late 70s. 140 00:10:57.360 --> 00:10:59.519 Why does he have a private army? 141 00:10:59.580 --> 00:11:04.080 You know, like, is it to prevent people walking on the grass? 142 00:11:05.340 --> 00:11:09.120 So the whole thing, that whole thing is so grotesque. 143 00:11:09.179 --> 00:11:19.799 You know, the eccentric millionnaire obsessed with plants and stuff and so silly that the script at least doesn't want us to read this as being in the real world. 144 00:11:19.860 --> 00:11:21.240 Is that is that fair? 145 00:11:21.299 --> 00:11:24.059 No, I think I think you are absolutely right there. 146 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:31.259 And in a way, we're not even in the real world of Doctor Who anymore because we 1st see the doctor in this story. 147 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:35.700 He is reporting to the World Ecology Bureau, at the BBC television. 148 00:11:35.700 --> 00:11:36.840 At the BBC television centre. 149 00:11:36.899 --> 00:11:38.039 It's the worldwide web. 150 00:11:38.100 --> 00:11:39.720 Yes, of course, yes. 151 00:11:39.779 --> 00:11:42.360 It's a nice segue, isn't it? 152 00:11:42.419 --> 00:11:50.700 Sarah and the doctors seem to have just come back to Earth and have been there for some little while since he's called in. obviously back with unit, or at least hanging about a bit. 153 00:11:50.759 --> 00:11:56.879 Well, the thing is, he's not because his 1st response when he arrives and starts talking to Sir Colin is, where's the brigadier? 154 00:11:56.940 --> 00:12:01.620 So, and at least this time we get like one mention of the brigadier and that's it. 155 00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:06.179 We don't constantly have a sign showing his name as we did in the Android invasion. 156 00:12:06.240 --> 00:12:08.639 You know, it's not that tease for the audience. 157 00:12:08.700 --> 00:12:10.440 It's the brigadier is not in this one. 158 00:12:10.500 --> 00:12:15.240 And as we go through, we don't even get perfunctory appearances by anyone else from unit. 159 00:12:15.299 --> 00:12:20.039 At the end of the story, we do get, I think it's Major Beresford and Sergeant Henderson. 160 00:12:20.100 --> 00:12:23.639 Sergeant Henderson is really pretty, but a terrible actor. 161 00:12:23.700 --> 00:12:25.379 He's such a red shirt though. 162 00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:27.120 He's such at the moment he arrives. 163 00:12:27.240 --> 00:12:28.379 It does make me dead. 164 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:31.500 It does make me wonder... 165 00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:36.539 It does make me wonder if Sergeant Benton was originally destined for the mulcher. 166 00:12:36.600 --> 00:12:37.320 Oh that would have been great. 167 00:12:37.379 --> 00:12:45.779 You know, and that would have, you know, I wouldn't want to see Benton go like that, but that would have added so much more to that last episode. 168 00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:47.279 Although you know what? 169 00:12:47.340 --> 00:12:48.480 I wouldn't have put it past home. 170 00:12:48.539 --> 00:12:49.200 Yeah. 171 00:12:49.259 --> 00:13:02.279 And well, the thing is, I would have loved to have then seen the doctor's reaction to that because, of course, we haven't had a companion die since Sara and Catherina, and even then the doctor didn't have that much emotional investment in them, and neither did we, as the audience. 172 00:13:02.340 --> 00:13:13.259 You know, having a long-running character being killed off, as they were considering writing out Sarah Jane at this time by killing her off, that would have been a terrible mistake. 173 00:13:13.320 --> 00:13:14.220 Oh, yeah. 174 00:13:14.220 --> 00:13:15.720 It absolutely would. 175 00:13:15.779 --> 00:13:23.460 But as we will see in a few months time when we're up to that point, when they do do that in the show, it does have a very strong emotional impact. 176 00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:27.299 Um, we're talking about Andre. 177 00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:28.980 Yeah, I'm not sure about that. 178 00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:34.440 So the one of the other huge characters of this story, of course. 179 00:13:34.500 --> 00:13:36.360 Amelia Ducan. 180 00:13:36.419 --> 00:13:41.220 Can I, again, pitch in and say Philip Hinchcliffe novelizes this? 181 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:47.519 and it's a great novelisation, the Doctor Who and the Seeds of Doom novelisation, and he nearly completely cuts Amelia out. 182 00:13:47.580 --> 00:14:02.159 So we do get the scene, I think, where they consult Amelia about the painting in the boot, which is used to get them to the next plot, but she doesn't get to go undercover into Chase's mansion or any of that sort of stuff. 183 00:14:02.220 --> 00:14:03.240 That sounds brilliant. 184 00:14:03.299 --> 00:14:05.340 I know. so Hingescliffe thinks it's padding. 185 00:14:05.399 --> 00:14:10.019 And so here I think on the other side, where we've got the sort of camp silly... 186 00:14:10.019 --> 00:14:21.600 So an Avengers style, you know, world that we're in, the really gun, you know, world is what Hinchcliffe wants from it because he thinks of me is a waste of time. 187 00:14:21.659 --> 00:14:24.360 And I think it's what Douglas Canfield wants as the director as well. 188 00:14:24.419 --> 00:14:28.080 Well, we start off with ice station, Zebra, and end up in Day of the Truford Stone. 189 00:14:28.139 --> 00:14:31.799 Well, yeah, and also it's Howard Hawks and thing from another world. 190 00:14:31.860 --> 00:14:34.980 And this is the thing, 1951, yes. 191 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:35.399 Yeah. 192 00:14:35.399 --> 00:14:41.100 And also, as we may discuss later, a certain Avengers episode called The Man Eater of Surrey Green. 193 00:14:41.159 --> 00:14:42.899 But we won't talk about that too much today. 194 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:46.259 And that episode of, are you being served when they all bring in the pot plants? 195 00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:47.519 Yes, that's great one. 196 00:14:47.580 --> 00:14:48.899 So Amelia. 197 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:52.080 She is just such a wonderful, wonderful character. 198 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:56.159 Is it actually a merely a pond all grown up and old and now... 199 00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:58.200 No, it's Amelia Rumford, the same age. 200 00:14:58.500 --> 00:15:00.659 I wish it wasn't there. 201 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:04.620 Why did none of these women end up going hanging about in the TARDIS? 202 00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:10.320 Because, you know, we could jump forward and say that Tom did want to play around with that kind of thing and have different people coming in. 203 00:15:10.379 --> 00:15:12.299 Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. 204 00:15:12.419 --> 00:15:15.779 They teased him by throwing a line in and then just not carrying it through. 205 00:15:16.019 --> 00:15:20.159 To start it all off, in the 1st thing we see her, she is smoking. 206 00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:24.179 She smokes laser in, like, Chase's study and stuff. 207 00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:25.500 Yeah, she's smoking all the time. 208 00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:35.399 And, you know, I can't recall where we've seen a smoking character in Doctor Who since once or twice in the 60s. about the doctor smoking in the 2nd episode? 209 00:15:35.460 --> 00:15:40.320 Yeah, and of course, Ian carries matches, so there's an implication that he smokes. 210 00:15:40.379 --> 00:15:42.720 And of course, smoking isn't cool. 211 00:15:42.779 --> 00:15:44.879 Smoking isn't cool kids who are listening. 212 00:15:44.940 --> 00:15:59.039 But because she is a character seemingly from a bygone age, not just because of her age, but because of her demeanour, it evokes that sense of 1940s, 50s films and people in smoking parlours and what have you. 213 00:15:59.100 --> 00:16:00.120 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 214 00:16:00.179 --> 00:16:02.759 I'm sure I'm sure that the actress insisted on it. 215 00:16:02.820 --> 00:16:04.620 Yes, it's Coolridge. 216 00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:14.340 And, you know, immediately she's set up as the type of character, she is with that famous lift from the importance of being earnest when she's told the painting was found in a car boot. 217 00:16:14.340 --> 00:16:15.360 A car boot? 218 00:16:15.419 --> 00:16:16.679 A Daimler carbo. 219 00:16:16.740 --> 00:16:17.519 The car? 220 00:16:17.580 --> 00:16:18.659 Is it material? 221 00:16:19.139 --> 00:16:22.320 And yet Hinchcliffe saw that as padding. 222 00:16:22.379 --> 00:16:26.159 I'm starting to see the in a very different light, you know. 223 00:16:26.220 --> 00:16:30.480 This is not quite as glorious and fun and wonderful as I thought as a child. 224 00:16:30.539 --> 00:16:35.519 It is for its tonality and for its visuals and for doing fresh and exciting new things. 225 00:16:35.580 --> 00:16:39.360 But gee, is it time to have a little bit more lightness of touch? 226 00:16:39.419 --> 00:16:55.259 I think it might be, but it also goes to show that when the Hinchcliffe Holmes team, right in a main female character, you can't really count Tessa from the Android invasion because Tessa isn't really a main character in that. 227 00:16:55.320 --> 00:17:06.000 But when you've got viral, when you've got Betan, when you've got Amelia Dukan, when you've got the matron in Terror of the Zion. 228 00:17:06.059 --> 00:17:14.039 Sister Lemon, Sister Lemon, they're all characters who push the plot forward and have their own actions going on in the plot. 229 00:17:14.099 --> 00:17:24.720 And Amelia Dukar is probably the strongest example of that we've seen so far because she gets that whole spying mission, which we don't, it's so excellent because we don't know it's a spying mission. 230 00:17:24.779 --> 00:17:26.519 We think she's just turned up out of the blue. 231 00:17:26.579 --> 00:17:30.119 And then Sarah gets a message to her and you think, well, how is she going to get? 232 00:17:30.180 --> 00:17:32.579 Oh, she's been working for Sir Colin all the time. 233 00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:34.799 That's very Avengers as well. 234 00:17:34.859 --> 00:17:35.640 Yeah, it is. 235 00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:41.460 There's a hilarious scene at the very end where it is kind of Padding where they're just sitting in Sir Charles's office afterwards. 236 00:17:41.460 --> 00:17:46.859 She's volunteering to do other spy missions for the world ecology bureau in future. 237 00:17:46.920 --> 00:17:49.440 Wouldn't you have loved to have seen that spinoff? 238 00:17:49.500 --> 00:17:50.460 That would have been great. 239 00:17:50.519 --> 00:17:52.980 And she talks about her wartime experience and stuff. 240 00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:55.980 And we all raised it.. 241 00:17:56.039 --> 00:18:01.079 So Colin and so Colin and Miss Dukar. would be so wonderful. 242 00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:07.440 Big finish. get on it Oh, no, it is a really strong guest cast. 243 00:18:07.500 --> 00:18:10.980 There's not a weak link in the bunch Do you know what really works, though? 244 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:12.000 What pulls it all together? 245 00:18:12.059 --> 00:18:14.700 Yes, the actors are great, but I keep coming back to the scoring. 246 00:18:14.759 --> 00:18:16.859 And I know that... 247 00:18:16.859 --> 00:18:18.539 Jeffrey Bergen is one of my all-time favourite. 248 00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:20.339 Yeah, he was a choral composer. 249 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:31.440 We talked about this previously that he main thing in life was to write coral music and he and he did his musicology degree on Gregorian chance or coral chances. 250 00:18:31.500 --> 00:18:32.759 So this one is lovely. 251 00:18:32.819 --> 00:18:35.819 And again, we've got beautiful ancient instruments in this. 252 00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:39.720 We have a clever chord. and reads, which are then put through a synth. 253 00:18:39.779 --> 00:18:41.819 So it's still nice and woo-woo. 254 00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:43.980 And the microphone on the clever court. 255 00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:47.880 He had a clever court at home and what he would do at home is he would... 256 00:18:47.940 --> 00:18:49.079 That's what I was thinking. 257 00:18:49.140 --> 00:19:00.960 He would put the microphone inside the chamber of the clapper called right up against the wood that the strings were attached to, and it would produce this very strange, metallic cold vibrato. 258 00:19:01.019 --> 00:19:04.140 Now the thing is, the sound engineers at the BBC refused to do that. 259 00:19:04.259 --> 00:19:05.579 They said it would damage the microphone. 260 00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:10.319 So they put it like a millimetre away and it completely changed the sound. 261 00:19:10.380 --> 00:19:16.559 He's like, it's not quite what I wanted, but those are those sort of pinging sounds we hear when we were in the Arctic. 262 00:19:16.619 --> 00:19:25.680 Also, he deliberately used classical musicians who he'd worked with before who weren't necessarily session musicians for television because Dudley always used session musicians. 263 00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:40.200 By using the classical musicians, he's like, that's how I got the sound I wanted because session musicians are all wonderful, but they're more specialists in modern techniques and I wanted people who are specialists in classic techniques to give this idea of being ancient and cold. 264 00:19:40.259 --> 00:19:44.039 Oh, because classical musicians are cold. 265 00:19:44.099 --> 00:19:47.519 Well, they also know how to listen to each other, possibly unlike our podcast. 266 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:50.220 Yeah, there's a lot. 267 00:19:50.339 --> 00:19:50.940 Text toast, please. 268 00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:51.720 Exactly. 269 00:19:51.779 --> 00:20:04.680 There's a lot more tonality and inference and sympathetic, if you want to say that, between the musicians on this school, you can tell they're actually behaving as a chamber orchestra and not merely as a set of disparate parts. 270 00:20:04.740 --> 00:20:06.000 It's a beautiful score. 271 00:20:06.059 --> 00:20:06.839 It makes it work. 272 00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:10.740 The effect of it is, I mean, it is eerie and frightening. 273 00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:17.759 And again, but it's also somnambulistic and it's sort of rather gorgeous and you feel as if you're in a waking dream. 274 00:20:17.819 --> 00:20:18.539 Yeah. 275 00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:26.640 I think I think if we're going to, you know, say who's on the gun side in this story and who's on the frock side, do you know what I mean? 276 00:20:26.700 --> 00:20:29.039 Like if we've got Canfield and Hinchcliffe. 277 00:20:29.099 --> 00:20:31.200 Have you explained guns and frocks on this podcast before? 278 00:20:31.259 --> 00:20:33.119 I don't have at some point. 279 00:20:33.180 --> 00:20:35.700 I keep meaning to put a website up explaining. 280 00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:37.680 I own gunsandfrocks.com. 281 00:20:37.740 --> 00:20:39.720 So I shouldn't really put a web. 282 00:20:39.779 --> 00:20:44.099 How about we give the listeners a 102nd version of what it used to be a gun and what it used to be a frock? 283 00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:49.380 So it's 2 ways of watching Doctor Who that we talked about a lot when the new adventures came out. 284 00:20:49.440 --> 00:21:01.019 And the gun way is, you know, Doctor Who is a serious science fiction program, it's action adventure, it's got continuity, you know, it's at its best when it's sort of grim. 285 00:21:01.140 --> 00:21:05.880 And I guess, like if you think about earth shock, do you know what I mean? 286 00:21:06.059 --> 00:21:08.339 then you're thinking gun. 287 00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:18.960 Frock is Doctor Who is funny and occasionally silly, that it's got a lot of humour, that part of the fun of watching it is the fun of enjoying the sort of silliness and the campness of the program. 288 00:21:19.019 --> 00:21:20.220 Androids of Tara. 289 00:21:20.279 --> 00:21:22.380 Well, I'm actually thinking Beryl Reed in it. 290 00:21:23.700 --> 00:21:30.779 And so Gareth Roberts famously said of the new adventures that he wanted more frocks, less guns. 291 00:21:30.839 --> 00:21:39.960 And so this is a very gun story. in one sense, because a lot of people with guns, even the doctor carries a gun, you know, in the episode. 292 00:21:39.960 --> 00:21:41.099 I've got a problem with that as well. 293 00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:42.359 I haven't touched on that yet. 294 00:21:42.420 --> 00:21:45.480 But they do hang a lantern on the fact that Sarah says you'd never use it. 295 00:21:45.539 --> 00:21:46.259 Well, they don't know that. 296 00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:51.059 And it's that's, you know, still, like if he's carrying it. for that half of the episode. 297 00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:53.460 And so they're the gun things. 298 00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:57.000 I think Jeffrey Bergen has to go in the gun camp for this one. 299 00:21:57.059 --> 00:22:01.079 Just because his score heightens the horror. 300 00:22:01.140 --> 00:22:06.240 You know, there's no hilarious comedy plinky harp music or tubers. 301 00:22:06.299 --> 00:22:07.619 We got Harositos for that. 302 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:10.259 And his and his craft verk organ. 303 00:22:10.259 --> 00:22:11.460 Green Cathedral. 304 00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:13.980 Kerry Blyton does not live here anymore. 305 00:22:14.579 --> 00:22:20.759 And, you know, the frock side would be would be Sir Colin and Amelia and... 306 00:22:20.819 --> 00:22:21.480 Yeah, yeah. 307 00:22:21.539 --> 00:22:23.940 And Dunbar skirts, the line, android. 308 00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:24.660 Yeah. 309 00:22:24.660 --> 00:22:26.339 Yeah, poor... 310 00:22:26.339 --> 00:22:27.059 Petticoat. 311 00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:28.680 Paul Kenneth Gilbert. poor Dunbar. 312 00:22:28.740 --> 00:22:30.539 Got chicken pox halfway through filming. 313 00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:33.240 And plague on this on this story, didn't they? 314 00:22:33.299 --> 00:22:33.960 People coming back. 315 00:22:34.019 --> 00:22:34.799 So what happened to him? 316 00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:40.440 Well, they just delayed the 2nd studio for about 3 weeks for him to get better. 317 00:22:40.500 --> 00:22:41.519 Yeah. 318 00:22:41.579 --> 00:22:42.900 He's really great. 319 00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:48.059 There's a cliffhanger to episode four, which is when we 1st see the crinoid properly. 320 00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:51.660 So the crinoid's been the rubber mattress running towards the camera. 321 00:22:51.900 --> 00:22:57.180 But before that, it's been an axe on kind of in, sort of in a sparkly painted green. 322 00:22:57.240 --> 00:23:01.500 And you can see a fair amount of orange, though, there in close-up still. 323 00:23:01.559 --> 00:23:04.619 But then it turns into the giant rubber mattress. 324 00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:06.539 And I think that that cliffhanger is beautifully directed. 325 00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:07.500 It's shot at night. 326 00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:11.400 There's heats are black in the frame because it's Douglas Campfield, lots of shadow and stuff. 327 00:23:11.460 --> 00:23:12.299 Low angle. 328 00:23:12.299 --> 00:23:13.680 Low angle. with the thing. 329 00:23:13.740 --> 00:23:16.500 Sarah screams, you know, Dun Bun has just been killed. 330 00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:27.299 It's a really, really terrifically memorable cliffhanger and it is beautifully shot, like Canfield, maybe a gun, but those pictures that he creates are just they're welcome. 331 00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:31.559 You know, really nicely, really nicely done. 332 00:23:31.619 --> 00:23:39.480 I like to think it's the fat bird from the end of Morecolm and Wise, you know, in a big latex Mumu running towards the camera in the end. 333 00:23:39.539 --> 00:23:40.200 Thank you all. 334 00:23:40.259 --> 00:23:44.220 Thank you all for watching my little show tonight, Doctor. 335 00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:55.740 Mark Jones plays voice at the crinoid, but you kind of, I kind of wish it had been Tony Beckley doing the voice, perhaps, in a different tone, but maybe Tony Beckley only has one tone. 336 00:23:55.799 --> 00:24:00.000 You know, there is something so love craft in about the crime. 337 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:01.980 Yes, we haven't talked about love. 338 00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:04.799 You know, it's a force from prehistory, so that's obvious enough. 339 00:24:04.859 --> 00:24:24.660 But also one of the big things about Lovecraft's monsters is that they cannot communicate on the same level as humanity and the crinoid only directly, verbally communicates once in the whole story when he's outside the cottage, you do say, give us the doctor and your lives will be spared. 340 00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:27.660 Rue for one offer this weekend only. 341 00:24:28.140 --> 00:24:33.480 And then it communicates with Chase telepathically and we're never pretty to the conversation. 342 00:24:33.539 --> 00:24:36.240 Chase has sex with the crinole. 343 00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:43.440 He has that wonderful Barbarella and Pyga moment in the woods and he has the 8th all true. 344 00:24:43.500 --> 00:24:44.519 I get it all now. 345 00:24:44.579 --> 00:24:46.859 He's lying down there grip. 346 00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:47.759 He is, isn't he? 347 00:24:47.819 --> 00:24:48.359 Oh, Italy. 348 00:24:48.359 --> 00:24:52.920 I always thought that was stupid as a child, but this time I thought, oh, my God, you guess it now. 349 00:24:52.980 --> 00:24:54.599 There's a lot of tendrils in that guy. 350 00:24:55.319 --> 00:24:58.740 But yeah, there is succulence. 351 00:24:58.859 --> 00:25:00.900 There is something for want of a better description. 352 00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:04.559 There is something unholy and unnatural, a bounty. 353 00:25:04.619 --> 00:25:07.740 And for cunt in all its ripe and horrible glory. 354 00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:09.119 Yeah, absolutely. 355 00:25:09.180 --> 00:25:09.539 Absolutely. 356 00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:11.700 It's such an effective villain because of that. 357 00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:15.420 Because, you know, the Wiran could be reasoned with because the human portion was still there. 358 00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:19.200 The human has been completely subsumed and consumed in the crinoid. 359 00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:24.779 You know, you can't reason with the Androids in the Android invasion, but just knock them over and their faces fall off. 360 00:25:24.839 --> 00:25:25.259 You're fine. 361 00:25:25.319 --> 00:25:29.700 But yeah, this is an enemy that's completely implacable. 362 00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:45.359 And I think what we have here is we have the 1st of a new tradition of season finale, because in the Barry Letts tradition of season finale, it was throw everything in the kitchen sink, and let's all have a fabulous time. unless you're a member of the audience. 363 00:25:48.720 --> 00:26:00.180 In the Tom Baker era, the 6 parters are more about, let's introduce a massive, massive threat that the doctor must work harder than he's ever worked before to defeat it. 364 00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:07.799 So in this, you know, he's got to eventually use methods he would never normally use calling in an airstrike against the crinoid. 365 00:26:07.859 --> 00:26:15.900 And, um, you know, next season, we'll see him go to Jurassic lengths and the invasion of time even. you know, drastic lengths once again. 366 00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:17.700 It starts to fall apart a bit after that. 367 00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:22.740 And we don't really get season finales like that in the 80s. 368 00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:28.079 So, but this is, this is the beginning of the, All bets are off season finale. 369 00:26:28.140 --> 00:26:32.099 Oh, I think we have a time bubble circling round again. 370 00:26:32.519 --> 00:26:34.259 Here he comes. 371 00:26:34.380 --> 00:26:38.640 The horror for Sarah Jane Smith continues in this episode. 372 00:26:38.700 --> 00:26:45.180 And for the 3rd story in a row, she lists some of the obstacles facing her. 373 00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:52.859 We had burn up and reentry, suffocate on the way down, crushed on impact from the Android invasion. 374 00:26:52.920 --> 00:27:19.740 We had blinded, attacked by a giant claw and falling down a flight of stairs from the brain of Morbius, and here, at the end of the seeds of doom, she lists steam, threatened to be shot a number of times, almost blown up by a huge bomb in Antarctica, the crinoid in all of its form, and almost being turned into a crinoid itself, and then she has to face the mincing machine. 375 00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:24.180 And I'm not talking necessarily about Harrison Chase, but he does attack Sarah and then put her into the machine. 376 00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:29.640 So, do you think enough is enough, rather than comedy ending for the season? 377 00:27:29.700 --> 00:27:33.000 Do you think Sarah should have said, it's time to go, doctor? 378 00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:36.000 She's into it. 379 00:27:36.059 --> 00:27:37.920 She's up for it. 380 00:27:37.980 --> 00:27:38.400 She into it. 381 00:27:38.460 --> 00:27:38.759 She is. 382 00:27:38.819 --> 00:27:40.440 It's not just Stockholm syndrome. 383 00:27:40.500 --> 00:27:43.859 Sarah seems to really get a great kick. 384 00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:46.980 Just how miserable must Croydon really be. 385 00:27:47.940 --> 00:27:56.220 She, of course, is going to lampshade it in her last scene in Hand of Fear, where she lists all of the things that you seek of happening to her. 386 00:27:56.279 --> 00:28:04.259 I actually think it's a mistake and I think it is comes completely from Hingecliff's misunderstanding of the premise of the show. 387 00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:10.380 You would never, ever be able to do those things to Ian and Barbara because we identified with them too strongly. 388 00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:16.019 Oh, Audrey Fawkes Hamilton or Tom and Barbara in the good life. 389 00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:18.359 It doesn't happen in other shows for a reason, Philip. 390 00:28:18.420 --> 00:28:21.839 Because it's unpleasant to watch, you know. 391 00:28:21.900 --> 00:28:28.140 And so Sarah has is becoming less of a character and turning into a plot device. 392 00:28:28.140 --> 00:28:31.859 Well, I actually thought more of an SM toy at this point, really. 393 00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:32.880 Do you know what I mean? 394 00:28:32.940 --> 00:28:33.660 She's still likeable. 395 00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:35.339 You know, the performance is fantastic. 396 00:28:35.400 --> 00:28:35.819 All of that. 397 00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:40.440 I actually mean that quite seriously, that if we did go to Sasha Masakum. 398 00:28:40.500 --> 00:29:02.099 We've already mentioned Venus in Furs previously, is a great seminal novel on the notion of the subversion of the female archetype to a sexual dominant stereotype, but also one that is the passive and the dominant become the one thing it's a complex thing, but she actually does become objectified in the most anti-feminist way you can imagine. 399 00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:10.500 She's, she's a, a figure to be oppressed and dominated and repelled and humiliated and tortured. 400 00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:12.660 That's kind of not really great, Phil. 401 00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:18.059 No, and I don't want to agree with that very much, but I think it's probably an unavoidable conclusion. 402 00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:38.519 And given just the massive underrepresentation of women in the entire era, the massive lack of interest that Hinchcliffe and Holmes have, even in including women just for variety, maybe you're right, that maybe there is something really unpleasant about mistreating the female lead over and over again. 403 00:29:38.579 --> 00:29:41.279 Can you imagine any of this having been done to Joe Grant? 404 00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:42.059 No, no. 405 00:29:42.119 --> 00:29:42.539 No, no. 406 00:29:42.599 --> 00:29:44.700 And I mean, Joe Grant did face horrors. 407 00:29:44.759 --> 00:29:52.980 And I think this highlights the problem with getting rid of Ian Martyr because Joe faced horrors, but the brigadier faced horrors alongside her. 408 00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:54.960 And so did Mike Gates and so did Sergeant Benton. 409 00:29:55.019 --> 00:30:08.339 Now, if Harry was still there, he would be able to get, if you like, his share of the horror, like putting his foot in the clam and getting tortured by Dav Ross and getting poked along by Vogans with gums. 410 00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:11.220 Yeah, getting captured by Hilda Winters. 411 00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:13.859 Yeah, those are all examples of things that happen to Harry losing issues. 412 00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:15.660 But terrible things. 413 00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:22.500 You know, if he was there in that season and say in Brain of Morbius, Sarah got blinded, but Harry fell down the stairs. 414 00:30:22.619 --> 00:30:23.279 Yeah. 415 00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:24.960 In Terror of the Zygons. 416 00:30:25.019 --> 00:30:27.180 I mean, Harry gets shot and surrogates suffocated. 417 00:30:27.240 --> 00:30:34.079 If that had happened to one character alone, that would be absolutely, absolutely horrible and horrific, you know? 418 00:30:34.440 --> 00:30:40.079 There are other problems with getting rid of Ian Martyr in that he's just fabulous and they were really good triumvirate. 419 00:30:40.140 --> 00:30:43.259 But yeah, I think if you're gonna have the one companion. 420 00:30:43.319 --> 00:30:55.980 You have to lessen the amount of jeopardy they are put in because it just becomes unbelievable that they would allow themselves to keep being put in this jeopardy, as we'll later see with Tegan Tegan leaves for exactly that reason. 421 00:30:56.039 --> 00:31:03.900 You know, I don't think the old show, the classic series asks itself the question very much of why the companions are travelling with the doctor. 422 00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:08.940 And initially the premise was that they were doing it because they couldn't get home because you can't control it. 423 00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:16.980 But Sarah has had a couple of opportunities to leave now and the show just doesn't even ask the question why he's travelling with her. 424 00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:21.299 And we could we can leap in and say, you know, Tom and Liz smile at each other a lot. 425 00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:25.680 So Sarah's travelling with the doctor because she really likes him. 426 00:31:25.740 --> 00:31:28.559 But the show never explicitly makes that claim. 427 00:31:28.619 --> 00:31:30.359 It really isn't interested. 428 00:31:30.420 --> 00:31:32.940 She's there because you need a female lead. 429 00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:36.359 She's there because Liz Sladen's contract isn't up yet. 430 00:31:36.420 --> 00:31:41.160 You know, that's really the only reason why Sarah is travelling with the doctor. 431 00:31:41.220 --> 00:31:42.539 Liz is fantastic. 432 00:31:42.599 --> 00:31:43.259 Do you know what I mean? 433 00:31:43.319 --> 00:31:50.339 Yeah, I mean, we're lucky that she is such a great character and such a wonderful actress that we really like watching her. 434 00:31:50.400 --> 00:32:00.420 And even when she's given these unrealistic, and I mean, unrealistic in the sense of why you still there, things to do, we still find her compelling and interesting and captivating. 435 00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:06.660 But it's a detriment to the character and the thought processes they're in. 436 00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:10.559 It's an imbalance and it's a, yeah, a misdirection. 437 00:32:10.619 --> 00:32:12.240 She has an inquisitive nature. 438 00:32:12.299 --> 00:32:15.599 She's a reporter, but I don't know that that's enough to compel the characters. 439 00:32:15.660 --> 00:32:18.599 And certainly they never suggest that that's the reason. 440 00:32:18.660 --> 00:32:19.440 Do you know what I mean? 441 00:32:19.500 --> 00:32:22.559 Not having to leap in and write our own reason. 442 00:32:22.619 --> 00:32:24.720 And there isn't really a good one, I think. 443 00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:27.839 Quick question. 444 00:32:27.900 --> 00:32:30.960 Is this the best season we've had so far? 445 00:32:31.019 --> 00:32:31.619 No. 446 00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:32.400 No? 447 00:32:32.460 --> 00:32:37.559 But it was a good one, but I'm really seeing last season as being terrific for all its flaws and rushes. 448 00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:46.980 And as Hinchcliffe was always complaining, always complaining that the so many of his stories were inherited, and he didn't really get to do what he wanted to do. 449 00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:47.880 This is the 1st year. 450 00:32:47.940 --> 00:32:50.279 He said, we got to do exactly what we pleased. 451 00:32:50.339 --> 00:32:53.160 Well, I don't know that I'm completely pleased by. 452 00:32:53.220 --> 00:32:54.660 No, I'm not. 453 00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:56.039 And I'm really surprised. 454 00:32:56.099 --> 00:32:58.500 Yeah, memory cheats. 455 00:32:58.559 --> 00:32:59.759 This is not how I recall it. 456 00:32:59.819 --> 00:33:15.480 And of course, with him being such a satisfying villain, we actually get a kind of uncomfortably satisfying end for Harrison Chase as he's trying to, he's already tried to mulch Sarah and that hasn't worked, he's mulch Sergeant Henderson and he tries to mulch the doctor. 457 00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:18.299 Sarah saves the doctor again. 458 00:33:18.359 --> 00:33:21.119 You know, she saves him several times in this story, once again. 459 00:33:22.019 --> 00:33:30.240 And in the course of the struggle, Chase gets knocked into the multure, the doctor tries to pull him out, but Chase is trying to pull the doctor in. 460 00:33:30.299 --> 00:33:33.059 So the doctor has to step away. 461 00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:39.059 We get his wonderful deathly scream, which is an absolutely beautiful. 462 00:33:39.900 --> 00:33:41.880 Yeah, you know, in terms of terror. 463 00:33:41.940 --> 00:33:43.740 It's an absolutely beautiful sound. 464 00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:47.880 And we then get, and I think this, it seeks to redress. 465 00:33:47.940 --> 00:33:55.740 I'm not sure if it's entirely successful, but it seeks to redress the balance of the season. with the doctor shell shocked that is saying I tried to save him. 466 00:33:55.799 --> 00:33:56.220 He tried. 467 00:33:56.279 --> 00:33:57.779 Eddie keeps saying I try. 468 00:33:57.839 --> 00:33:59.099 I tried to save. 469 00:33:59.160 --> 00:34:00.599 And he kept trying to pull me in. 470 00:34:00.660 --> 00:34:01.140 Yeah. 471 00:34:01.140 --> 00:34:15.539 And for this doctor who has been so emotionally distant, as we've seen in Pyramids of Mars, but can be so flippant, as well, and usually when he's faced with tragedy, he just sort of stares off into the middle distance. 472 00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:19.619 It's a wonderfully human moment from Tom's doctor. 473 00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:22.679 And I think it just enhances an already brilliant story. 474 00:34:22.739 --> 00:34:28.019 The acting in this is impeccable and that's what saves it, ultimately, that in the score. 475 00:34:28.139 --> 00:34:30.719 And there's so much love about this. 476 00:34:30.780 --> 00:34:35.280 It's difficult to say why it isn't quite as beautiful as I remember it to be. 477 00:34:35.340 --> 00:34:38.159 It's a hell of a lot more enjoyable for me than Brain of Morbius. 478 00:34:38.219 --> 00:34:40.739 Probably because visually it's so interesting and orally. 479 00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:41.460 It's so interesting. 480 00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:43.679 But no, it's certainly not my highlight of the season. 481 00:34:43.920 --> 00:34:45.840 Should we talk about the last scene? 482 00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:54.659 It might be the worst season closing scene, even vastly, vastly worse than the Brigadier and Mike Yates. 483 00:34:54.719 --> 00:34:57.300 Why wouldn't you wear a bikini in -20 temperature? 484 00:34:57.360 --> 00:34:58.320 Or naked Benton. 485 00:34:58.380 --> 00:34:59.340 Naked Benton. 486 00:34:59.340 --> 00:35:00.179 Naked Benton. 487 00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:01.980 Yes, that's a great cliffhaker. 488 00:35:02.039 --> 00:35:03.300 So this one tries to do the humour. 489 00:35:03.360 --> 00:35:06.599 So they are heading off to Cassiopeia on a holiday. 490 00:35:06.659 --> 00:35:07.980 So Sarah's in a bikini. 491 00:35:08.039 --> 00:35:13.800 They end up in Antarctica because the doctor hasn't reprogrammed the coordinates. 492 00:35:13.860 --> 00:35:18.239 Even though we went there by helicopter, as everyone knows. 493 00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:21.900 Then they're supposed to say a funny line, which isn't funny. 494 00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:24.360 So have we been here before or are we yet to come? 495 00:35:24.420 --> 00:35:25.860 Which isn't actually a funny line. 496 00:35:25.920 --> 00:35:30.780 They're both desperately looking at each other to get the timing right, but they don't manage to do it. 497 00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:32.699 So they don't manage to say it at the same time. 498 00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:34.320 You know why they're so hysterical, though. 499 00:35:34.380 --> 00:35:36.420 The TARDIS prop roof had fallen in. 500 00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:37.860 Yeah. 501 00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:46.980 This is the last time we see the original 1963 on Earthly Child, police box Shell, and yes, dear listeners, it's been the same prop all the way through just redressed. 502 00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:48.300 So yeah, goodbye. 503 00:35:48.360 --> 00:35:52.320 No, apparently it almost injured Liz Sladden as the roof fell in. 504 00:35:52.380 --> 00:35:54.780 And we thought, well, what else could happen to her at this season, you know? 505 00:35:54.840 --> 00:35:59.460 And then and then they do the just the most appalling fake laugh to win the season. 506 00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:02.400 And of course, it's Antarctica, brilliantly lit. 507 00:36:02.460 --> 00:36:05.639 Antarctica doesn't have long days and nights in the doctor universe. 508 00:36:05.699 --> 00:36:07.440 We've landed in the daytime. 509 00:36:07.500 --> 00:36:15.599 It's really lit, and of course, it's just, you know, some haphazardly fake sprayed fake snow on sort of black dirt. really, really unconvincing. 510 00:36:15.659 --> 00:36:19.920 And so it is, I think, the worst season closing scene in Doctor Who's history. 511 00:36:20.039 --> 00:36:24.119 I think we're getting very close to picks and specs, aren't we? 512 00:36:24.179 --> 00:36:27.960 So, Nathan, what's your Jenny Laird award for this season? 513 00:36:28.019 --> 00:36:36.360 Originally when I thought about this, I thought it had to be Bob Holmes for rewriting Terrence Dix, but not rewriting Terry Nation. 514 00:36:36.420 --> 00:36:39.000 But I have sort of said that before. 515 00:36:39.059 --> 00:36:50.340 And so I'm going to preempt all of your picks because I can just sense what's bubbling under the surface as I look across the table at you, which is utterly wasting Ian Marta, completely squandering. 516 00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:50.760 Agreed. 517 00:36:50.820 --> 00:36:52.800 And he was such a terrific story. 518 00:36:52.860 --> 00:36:56.159 He gets a really perfunctory farewell in terror of the cycons. 519 00:36:56.219 --> 00:37:03.059 He comes back in Android invasion, and he just, like, he doesn't say a word to the doctor. 520 00:37:03.119 --> 00:37:07.860 Like, robot replica, Harry, gets to deliver some very boring. 521 00:37:07.980 --> 00:37:09.719 You know the script actually had a lot more involvement. 522 00:37:09.719 --> 00:37:12.119 And Hinchcliffe cut it all out. 523 00:37:12.179 --> 00:37:12.900 Yeah. 524 00:37:12.900 --> 00:37:18.059 It was all in Hinchcliffe's behest and he and Holmes had yet another blue about it. 525 00:37:18.119 --> 00:37:20.340 So I think I've heard something about this. 526 00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:22.860 He just thought it was confusing or didn't. 527 00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:25.320 No, he said, I don't emphasise Sarah, I believe. 528 00:37:25.380 --> 00:37:26.460 He simply said that. 529 00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:29.699 He said, I don't want the audience is exactly what you're saying. 530 00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:32.760 I don't want the audience to regret something they've lost. 531 00:37:32.820 --> 00:37:33.840 Okay. 532 00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:34.559 Yeah, yeah. 533 00:37:34.619 --> 00:37:35.099 Yeah. 534 00:37:35.159 --> 00:37:36.840 Well, I mean, it just causes us to regret. 535 00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:37.739 Of course it does. 536 00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:39.900 Yeah, and you know, Sarah gets puzzling at the age of 10. 537 00:37:40.079 --> 00:37:45.239 Sarah gets one line with him and then the rest of the time he's completely wasted. 538 00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:51.179 And you've already said this episode, Brendan, how he would have had a salutary effect on the tone of the whole season. 539 00:37:51.239 --> 00:37:54.059 He and Scorpion, a Biffo, would have been true. 540 00:37:54.119 --> 00:37:54.659 Would have been great. 541 00:37:54.719 --> 00:37:58.320 He's funny, you know, he's lovely and he would have just lightened me. 542 00:37:58.380 --> 00:38:01.380 And Amelia Ducar in a Biffo would have been. 543 00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:05.280 He would have taken her out for a lovely drink or something. 544 00:38:05.340 --> 00:38:08.820 I was just taking her out, just take a butt at her and take the vice versa. 545 00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:09.420 I spoke to you. 546 00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:10.980 Okay, my Jenny Led award. 547 00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:14.159 It's related to the Android invasion, which generally I quite like. 548 00:38:14.219 --> 00:38:19.260 And I've already talked about the absence of the brigadier and how it's a cheat for the audience. 549 00:38:19.380 --> 00:38:22.260 So my Jenny later award is going to be this. 550 00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:27.960 If you're going to have Patrick Newell in there at the end as Colonel Faraday, have him in the replica Earth as well. 551 00:38:28.019 --> 00:38:32.699 So his character is established, because I don't think that Patrick Newell puts in a bad performance. 552 00:38:32.760 --> 00:38:37.079 He's just given very, very generic, thankless material. 553 00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:38.880 And if he hadn't been there from the beginning. 554 00:38:38.940 --> 00:38:42.059 It might have actually added a bit of mystery as well. 555 00:38:42.119 --> 00:38:44.280 It's like, oh, we have a new military leader here. 556 00:38:44.340 --> 00:38:46.139 It's a bit of a coup too, isn't it? 557 00:38:46.199 --> 00:38:47.579 Because of course he's famous for playing. 558 00:38:47.699 --> 00:38:49.559 He's famous for playing Mother in the Avengers. 559 00:38:49.860 --> 00:38:52.019 What's his character called again? 560 00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:53.280 Colonel Faraday. 561 00:38:53.340 --> 00:38:58.739 So out of if Colonel Faraday and Major Beresford had a fight, who would win? 562 00:38:58.800 --> 00:38:59.880 I think Faraday. 563 00:38:59.940 --> 00:39:01.980 It's far more interesting than Beresford. 564 00:39:02.039 --> 00:39:04.019 Beresford's got a great growly voice, though. 565 00:39:04.139 --> 00:39:12.000 He does have a great growling voice, but it's so one note, whereas whereas Faraday, we in the sort of 5 lines he gets. 566 00:39:12.059 --> 00:39:14.699 We see him happy we see him impatient. 567 00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:16.019 We see him. 568 00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:17.820 No nonsense. 569 00:39:17.880 --> 00:39:21.539 And you know, that is all through his performance, not through the dialogue, Meryl Streep. 570 00:39:22.380 --> 00:39:24.539 There's a hole in my stomach. 571 00:39:24.599 --> 00:39:26.400 Richard, what's your Jenny Leah? 572 00:39:26.460 --> 00:39:27.539 Is that how we lost all that weight? 573 00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:28.920 Oh, poor old love. 574 00:39:28.980 --> 00:39:30.539 He was almost unrecognisable. 575 00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:31.320 Yeah, yeah. 576 00:39:31.380 --> 00:39:32.099 Yeah. 577 00:39:32.159 --> 00:39:33.539 It's so odd. 578 00:39:33.599 --> 00:39:35.760 I think we've covered it really certainly what you're saying. 579 00:39:35.820 --> 00:39:40.920 My Journey Led Award was really also the trouble with Harry, and then he's just not there. 580 00:39:40.980 --> 00:39:44.460 It was disappointing as a little boy and it's even more so now. 581 00:39:44.519 --> 00:39:52.739 But really, the blinding of Sarah is so the Nadir. so the bottom line of you've crossed that Hinchcliffe. 582 00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:53.820 And again, as a child. 583 00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:55.440 Well, I didn't see it. 584 00:39:55.500 --> 00:39:58.320 And I think if this story had been cared. 585 00:39:58.320 --> 00:39:59.099 Exactly. 586 00:39:59.159 --> 00:40:00.239 She didn't see it coming. 587 00:40:00.300 --> 00:40:01.139 Oh, thank you, listener. 588 00:40:02.639 --> 00:40:06.480 Did you hear the collective sigh across the interwear, Pierce? 589 00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:10.980 I was in the, yes, it was a texture in the force then. 590 00:40:11.039 --> 00:40:12.059 It was all dark gray. 591 00:40:12.179 --> 00:40:16.679 If Brain of Morbius had been shown in Australia in the original run. 592 00:40:16.739 --> 00:40:20.460 I don't know that I would have enjoyed this season as much. 593 00:40:20.519 --> 00:40:25.920 It just, and simply for what's done to Sarah. drops it all out. 594 00:40:25.980 --> 00:40:26.460 So, yeah. 595 00:40:26.519 --> 00:40:28.260 Okay, pics of the week. 596 00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:35.460 This one isn't strictly Doctor Who related, but when I watched it, it gave me a sense of part of this season. 597 00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:38.460 It's a short film called Refuge. 598 00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:42.840 And it is a short film that has been shot entirely with moonlight. 599 00:40:42.900 --> 00:40:43.800 Ooh. 600 00:40:43.800 --> 00:40:50.280 It's set on an alien planet and to get a different lighting effect, they shot with moonlight and reflectiboards reflecting the moonlight. 601 00:40:50.340 --> 00:40:55.380 I can't say too much about it because it is only 7 minutes long. 602 00:40:55.440 --> 00:40:59.159 What I found it very evocative of was Planet of Evil. 603 00:40:59.219 --> 00:41:02.099 So, it's up on Vimeo, will include a link to it on the website. 604 00:41:02.159 --> 00:41:09.599 I will say that it does have a level of violence and a level of body horror. 605 00:41:09.659 --> 00:41:12.300 So please be aware of that as you watch it. 606 00:41:12.360 --> 00:41:21.539 I wouldn't say there was anything you couldn't put in an M15 film, probably a PG film, to be honest. 607 00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:23.460 But yeah, I do recommend it. 608 00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:31.139 Refuge, short film, shot entirely in moonlight, I believe 51,000 ISO to capture the lighting effect. 609 00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:34.320 And just done with just 3 actors and minimal special effects. 610 00:41:34.380 --> 00:41:34.980 It's really good. 611 00:41:35.039 --> 00:41:37.440 Well, my one is a little bit more prosaic than that. 612 00:41:37.500 --> 00:41:46.559 Yours sounds intriguing though, Brendan, I have to say, I hear it, Richards, and like all of us, he has boxes of old issues of DWM around the place. 613 00:41:46.619 --> 00:41:47.760 Yes we do. 614 00:41:47.820 --> 00:41:55.500 And I'd subscribe to it and had it sent to me from, you know, at great expense from England. 615 00:41:55.559 --> 00:42:00.420 It turns out that there is an app for the iPad, which is the DWM app. 616 00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:03.179 It's vastly cheaper to buy individual issues. 617 00:42:03.239 --> 00:42:04.800 They're weightless. 618 00:42:04.860 --> 00:42:12.059 You can have them with you at all times and they don't pile up in big dusty boxes in your in your attic. 619 00:42:12.119 --> 00:42:13.980 So that's what I've been doing. 620 00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:14.940 I've downloaded it. 621 00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:17.699 I've got it with me at all times and so I don't even have to read it. 622 00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:19.139 So can I recommend? 623 00:42:19.199 --> 00:42:21.480 Can I recommend the DWM app for the app? 624 00:42:21.539 --> 00:42:25.139 That's actually great because I buy them and don't take them out of the plastic. 625 00:42:25.199 --> 00:42:28.500 Yeah, I believe the subscription rate is $50 Australian for a year. 626 00:42:28.559 --> 00:42:41.820 And if you would like to read the interview with Robert Banks Stewart, the writer of Terror of the Zigons and Seeds of Doom from this season, that is an issue 443 because I had a quick look at that in preparation for the podcast. 627 00:42:42.059 --> 00:42:43.679 Good to know. 628 00:42:43.739 --> 00:43:06.659 Well, my pick is, again, Doctor Who related not, but sort of-ish, and from my least favourite story of the season, brain of Morbius, but I really love the antecedents of this story, and one of my favourite takes on that whole wonderful universal period of horror, which is a lovely filmmic thing in and of itself, and imbues so much of this season's atmosphere, just as much in Seeds of Doom, actually. 629 00:43:06.719 --> 00:43:12.119 Bill Condon is a director who's been around for about 20 or so years. 630 00:43:12.179 --> 00:43:15.059 He's does really nice, interesting quirky little things off the fringe. 631 00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:17.460 She did a beautiful film with Brendan Fraser. 632 00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:29.039 Ian McCellen, and our very own Pamela Salem, called Gods and Monsters in the late 90s, which is the story of James Whale, and a young man he met called Brendan Fraser. 633 00:43:29.099 --> 00:43:32.280 And it's mostly shot around a swimming pool. 634 00:43:32.340 --> 00:43:38.699 The director of Frankenstein and Bride of Frankenstein, and it's set around the filming of Bride of Frankenstein. 635 00:43:38.820 --> 00:43:45.659 It's just a beautiful story of old Hollywood and introduces a very young Brendan Fraser, who is delightful in the part. 636 00:43:45.719 --> 00:43:49.199 And yes, we have Pamela Salem as James Wales wife. 637 00:43:49.260 --> 00:43:51.840 A lot of odd things, gods and monsters, it's called. 638 00:43:51.900 --> 00:44:04.559 I saw it at a, at its premiere in Sydney at one of the film festivals, and I asked Bill Condon, who was a sort of early archetype of the hipster set in tweed jacket and big bushy beard, and he was very comely, and I asked him out afterwards. 639 00:44:04.619 --> 00:44:05.639 I said, what are you doing after this? 640 00:44:05.699 --> 00:44:07.440 And he said, queen of the Jews. 641 00:44:07.500 --> 00:44:09.239 And I said, no, it's just a trick of the light. 642 00:44:09.300 --> 00:44:11.519 But that was the film he made next. 643 00:44:11.579 --> 00:44:12.719 I don't know if it ever got released. 644 00:44:25.980 --> 00:44:29.340 That's all the time we have for this season. 645 00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:41.880 We will be back next week, but doing something slightly different, and Richard's talk of antecedents is actually what's inspiring us next week, to have a look at the Avengers episode, the man eater of Surrey Green. 646 00:44:41.940 --> 00:44:43.500 As a drink listener. 647 00:44:43.559 --> 00:44:46.920 So you have a week to track yourself down a copy of the episode. 648 00:44:46.980 --> 00:44:51.300 It is available as part of various series 4 Avengers sets. 649 00:44:51.360 --> 00:44:54.840 They're available on DVD and Blu-ray from Amazon UK. 650 00:44:54.900 --> 00:44:57.420 It is actually on YouTube. 651 00:44:57.420 --> 00:45:03.960 It is on YouTube. entirety, and I will put a link in the show notes so that you can prepare for next week's episode by watching it. 652 00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:04.920 There we go. 653 00:45:04.980 --> 00:45:11.039 Uh, because uh, Many believe that it has some very strong links to the seeds of doom. 654 00:45:11.099 --> 00:45:12.360 So we'll be exploring that as well. 655 00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:20.159 The week after that, however, we will be back on with the Mask of Man, Dragara, and Todd will rejoin us again for season 14. 656 00:45:20.519 --> 00:45:34.139 Until then, please check us out on Flightthrough Entirety.com, at FTE podcast on Twitter, and Flight Through Entirety on Facebook and iTunes, and we would like to thank the listeners who have left us reviews so far. 657 00:45:34.199 --> 00:45:37.079 We now have an aggregate iTunes rating. 658 00:45:37.139 --> 00:45:40.500 So thank you very much for that because you need a minimum amount of reviews for that. 659 00:45:40.559 --> 00:45:43.139 So thank you all of those of you who have left reviews so far. 660 00:45:43.199 --> 00:45:44.940 Until next week. 661 00:45:45.000 --> 00:45:48.480 Do take care of yourselves, and remember, no touch, Todd, could be dangerous. 662 00:45:48.539 --> 00:45:49.139 Good night. 663 00:45:49.199 --> 00:45:49.739 Good night. 664 00:45:49.800 --> 00:45:50.579 Good night. 665 00:45:54.420 --> 00:46:01.019 You've been listening to Flight 2 Entirety with Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones and Richard Stone. 666 00:46:01.079 --> 00:46:05.219 This episode, playing it straight, was recorded on July the 11th, 2015. 667 00:46:05.400 --> 00:46:08.699 The next episode will be released on September 6th. 668 00:46:08.760 --> 00:46:10.619 Have you listened to Bondfinger yet? 669 00:46:10.619 --> 00:46:14.400 Or are you yet to come to the Bondfinger website? 670 00:46:14.400 --> 00:46:16.139 That wasn't an innuendo. 671 00:46:16.139 --> 00:46:16.739 I'm going to go. 672 00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:17.340 I see you next week. 673 00:46:20.940 --> 00:46:24.239 Well, I'm sick of being trapped in my time, Bubble. 674 00:46:24.300 --> 00:46:26.099 So I'm off to the Mandraggera Helix. 675 00:46:26.159 --> 00:46:30.239 They've promised me a way to get back to earth in time for season 14. 676 00:46:30.420 --> 00:46:32.639 Let's see if I make it.