WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 14:47:24 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.180 I mean, this was the weirdest episode of Doctor Who I've ever 2 00:00:03.180 --> 00:00:03.480 seen. 3 00:00:03.540 --> 00:00:05.639 Why are we back in black and white again? 4 00:00:05.700 --> 00:00:07.860 And like, why is Tom Baker wearing a bowler? 5 00:00:07.980 --> 00:00:08.640 Do you know what I mean? 6 00:00:08.699 --> 00:00:09.720 And where's the Tartars? 7 00:00:09.779 --> 00:00:11.580 The whole thing just made no sense at all. 8 00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:44.520 Hello and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety, the only Doctor 9 00:00:44.520 --> 00:00:46.679 Who podcast, which this week is talking about... 10 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:54.240 The Avengers. 11 00:00:54.299 --> 00:00:55.560 I'm Brendan. 12 00:00:55.619 --> 00:00:56.579 I'm Nathan. 13 00:00:56.640 --> 00:00:59.640 And I'm a suffering pseudopod for this episode. 14 00:01:00.780 --> 00:01:04.620 So we are talking about an Avengers episode this week. 15 00:01:04.680 --> 00:01:08.640 The man eater of sorry, Green, which many of you as an antecedent 16 00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:10.680 to Seeds of Doom. 17 00:01:10.739 --> 00:01:12.959 Now, Seeds of Doom had many antecedents. 18 00:01:13.019 --> 00:01:15.959 It had the thing from another whirlwind, which we've discussed, Day 19 00:01:15.959 --> 00:01:20.700 of the Triffords, Quator Mass, but this is possibly a lesser known 20 00:01:20.700 --> 00:01:23.459 one for modern viewers, which is why we decided to talk about it. 21 00:01:23.519 --> 00:01:27.299 For those of you not familiar with the Avengers, and maybe you've 22 00:01:27.299 --> 00:01:30.480 only seen the episode that we're talking about this week, for 23 00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:34.560 which we posted a YouTube link online, The Avengers was a 1960s 24 00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:36.959 spy and espionage series. 25 00:01:37.019 --> 00:01:40.980 It was also one of the 1st ones to be to have the label applied 26 00:01:40.980 --> 00:01:44.340 spy-fi because it ended up having science fictional elements 27 00:01:44.340 --> 00:01:44.819 within it. 28 00:01:44.879 --> 00:01:48.659 It had a strange beginning in that it came originally from a 29 00:01:48.659 --> 00:01:52.680 series called Police Surgeon, in which an actor called Ian Hendry 30 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:54.480 was playing a surgeon attached to the police. 31 00:01:54.540 --> 00:01:57.659 That series ran for 13 episodes before it ran into script 32 00:01:57.659 --> 00:01:58.079 trouble. 33 00:01:58.140 --> 00:02:01.680 Plus it wasn't actually terribly popular, but Ian Hendry was. 34 00:02:01.739 --> 00:02:05.640 So a new show was developed around him playing a new character 35 00:02:05.640 --> 00:02:06.840 again playing a doctor. 36 00:02:06.900 --> 00:02:11.580 But in this case, the doctor's fiance was killed by underworld 37 00:02:11.580 --> 00:02:15.539 figures, who had accidentally delivered to her a package full of 38 00:02:15.539 --> 00:02:17.639 drugs and killed her to silence her. 39 00:02:17.699 --> 00:02:18.599 She still had no idea. 40 00:02:18.659 --> 00:02:23.280 Into the picture comes a spy called John Steed. 41 00:02:23.580 --> 00:02:30.000 And together with Ian Hendry's, Dr. Keel, they work to take down 42 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:34.020 underground masterminds and what have you. 43 00:02:34.080 --> 00:02:36.300 The men who sell illegal fruit. 44 00:02:36.840 --> 00:02:39.479 It wasn't all entirely fantastic. 45 00:02:39.539 --> 00:02:45.300 No, it was the longest running show, um, spice show of the 60s. 161 46 00:02:45.300 --> 00:02:45.599 episodes. 47 00:02:45.659 --> 00:02:49.080 And it was, it very quickly stopped being about spies and started 48 00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:52.259 being about the medium itself and probably the greatest television 49 00:02:52.259 --> 00:02:53.460 show of war time. 50 00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:54.840 Can we just do a podcast on this? 51 00:02:54.900 --> 00:02:56.460 It's a much more fun movie. 52 00:02:56.699 --> 00:02:58.979 Well, very soon. 53 00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:02.039 Within the 1st year, Ian Hendry, who was the star of the show 54 00:03:02.039 --> 00:03:05.819 there was a writer's strike, which halted production, and he was 55 00:03:05.819 --> 00:03:06.960 getting lots of film offers. 56 00:03:07.020 --> 00:03:11.520 So he used the strike because he was sort of contracted for a 57 00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:13.439 period of time rather than a period of episodes. 58 00:03:13.500 --> 00:03:16.439 He used to strike to get out of his contract, and Patrick McNee as 59 00:03:16.439 --> 00:03:19.199 John Steed, who has unfortunately recently passed away at a ripe 60 00:03:19.199 --> 00:03:22.500 old age of 93, carried on with the show as the lead. 61 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:25.080 And that's when it really transmogrified into this larger than 62 00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:26.580 life spy series. 63 00:03:26.639 --> 00:03:30.960 He was joined in that era by Honour Blackman. 64 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:32.759 So what season does she join? 65 00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:37.259 She joins in season two. along with Julie Stevens, who is also 66 00:03:37.259 --> 00:03:39.539 famous for presenting Play School in the UK. 67 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:41.039 What was her character? 68 00:03:41.099 --> 00:03:45.120 Her character was Venus Smith, Venus Smith, as a nightclub 69 00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:45.599 singer. 70 00:03:45.659 --> 00:03:49.199 On a Blackman played Kathy Gale, an anthropologist. 71 00:03:49.979 --> 00:03:52.979 And we own her. in terror of the verboids. 72 00:03:53.039 --> 00:03:55.319 And of course, Goldfinger. and Goldfinger. 73 00:03:55.379 --> 00:03:58.740 Steed was also briefly joined by a temporary character called Dr 74 00:03:58.740 --> 00:04:01.620 Martin King, who was played by John Rollerson, familiar with our 75 00:04:01.620 --> 00:04:04.259 listeners as Harold Chorley from the web of fear. 76 00:04:04.319 --> 00:04:05.099 Brilliant. 77 00:04:05.159 --> 00:04:11.219 After 2 years on a left-to-do goldfinger, and America started 78 00:04:11.219 --> 00:04:14.460 buying the series, but bought it on the proviso that it be made on 79 00:04:14.460 --> 00:04:18.420 film and in colour, to which the producers in England very quickly 80 00:04:18.420 --> 00:04:20.399 said, well, look, we can't afford to do one. 81 00:04:20.459 --> 00:04:23.279 We can afford to do film more colour this year and then go to the 82 00:04:23.279 --> 00:04:24.000 other one next year. 83 00:04:24.060 --> 00:04:25.379 So they said, right, film, please. 84 00:04:25.439 --> 00:04:29.100 And that's where Diana Rigg comes in as Emma Peel, who is, I would 85 00:04:29.100 --> 00:04:33.240 say, unarguably the most famous Avengers Girl, if you like, or 86 00:04:33.240 --> 00:04:35.399 Avengers Woman, sidekick to Steed. 87 00:04:35.459 --> 00:04:39.420 And is she like the sexiest woman ever to appear on television? 88 00:04:39.480 --> 00:04:40.439 She really is. 89 00:04:40.500 --> 00:04:41.879 Maybe Barbara Felden. 90 00:04:41.939 --> 00:04:47.220 Barbara Felden was lovely from Get Smart, but she did it demurely 91 00:04:47.220 --> 00:04:49.319 and with a certain faintness. 92 00:04:49.379 --> 00:04:52.860 It's kind of wrong to say the sidekick, because even McNee admits 93 00:04:52.860 --> 00:04:56.519 he was the sidekick. and Mrs. Peel was the lead. 94 00:04:56.579 --> 00:04:58.439 So we own Diana Rigg as well. 95 00:04:58.500 --> 00:04:59.639 We own Diana Rigg as well. 96 00:04:59.699 --> 00:05:01.800 She has appeared in Doctor Who in the Crimson Horror. 97 00:05:01.860 --> 00:05:06.180 And she was in the unfairly underrated Game of Thrones. 98 00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:07.500 The throne. 99 00:05:07.560 --> 00:05:09.300 No one's talking about that at all. 100 00:05:09.420 --> 00:05:13.019 She just doesn't mind looking like a terrifying crone, does she 101 00:05:13.019 --> 00:05:13.920 now that she's older. 102 00:05:13.980 --> 00:05:19.019 But she's, of course, in on her majesty's secret service. 103 00:05:19.079 --> 00:05:19.740 Indeed. 104 00:05:19.800 --> 00:05:23.399 After one black and white film season and one colour film season 105 00:05:23.399 --> 00:05:25.139 Diana left the Avengers. 106 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:27.779 It was a gruelling filming schedule, despite the fact they were 107 00:05:27.779 --> 00:05:28.560 working on film. 108 00:05:28.620 --> 00:05:32.639 It was more like a television videotape production schedule as the 109 00:05:32.639 --> 00:05:33.959 1st 3 series had been. 110 00:05:34.199 --> 00:05:38.160 And between her 1st and 2nd series, she discovered that she was 111 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:39.540 being paid less than the cameraman. 112 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:45.420 And she managed to get her salary tripled because she threatened 113 00:05:45.420 --> 00:05:45.779 to leave. 114 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:49.560 But she made it very clear from the beginning of season 5 that she 115 00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:52.019 would be leaving at the end of that season. 116 00:05:52.079 --> 00:05:55.560 And so she did, she went on to do on Her Majesty's Secret 117 00:05:55.560 --> 00:05:55.920 Service. 118 00:05:55.980 --> 00:06:00.180 She was replaced by a very polarising figure in Avengers fandom. 119 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:04.439 Linda Thorson as Tara King, who played a Cardassian, who played a 120 00:06:04.439 --> 00:06:07.620 Cardassian in Star Trek, has yet to appear in Doctor Who. 121 00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:09.000 Stephen Moffat, are you listening? 122 00:06:09.060 --> 00:06:10.139 We want Linda Thorson. 123 00:06:10.199 --> 00:06:11.819 I don't think he is. 124 00:06:14.759 --> 00:06:17.699 Now, Tara's character was a lot. 125 00:06:17.759 --> 00:06:21.300 Younger had a lot less experience than her 2 predecessors, but 126 00:06:21.300 --> 00:06:24.060 still held her own very well, had a great chemistry with Patrick 127 00:06:24.060 --> 00:06:29.160 McNee, and Patrick McNee spoke very fondly of all of his co-stars 128 00:06:29.160 --> 00:06:30.060 that he worked with. 129 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:33.720 Around this time that the Seeds of Doom was on, the Avengers had 130 00:06:33.720 --> 00:06:37.319 actually been revived as the new Avengers, still featuring Patrick 131 00:06:37.319 --> 00:06:43.079 McNee, and also Joanna Lumley in her 1st major TV role after she'd 132 00:06:43.079 --> 00:06:44.879 appeared in one Her Majesty's Secret Service. 133 00:06:44.939 --> 00:06:46.620 She's so fabulous. 134 00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:47.579 She gets like one line. 135 00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:53.459 We'll get there And Gareth Hunt. as Mike Gambit. from Metabolist 3 136 00:06:53.459 --> 00:06:54.779 from Metabolist 3. 137 00:06:54.959 --> 00:06:56.699 So there are many, many Doctor Who leagues. 138 00:06:56.759 --> 00:06:59.879 And even more, if you look at the guest cast, but the only major 139 00:06:59.879 --> 00:07:04.199 cast members of the Avengers who haven't appeared in Doctor Who 140 00:07:04.199 --> 00:07:08.819 are the sadly departed, Ian Hendry, the now sadly departed Patrick 141 00:07:08.819 --> 00:07:11.699 McNee, and, of course, Linda Fawson. 142 00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:15.120 So it's not too late to get Linda, of course, because Joanna has 143 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:15.899 played the doctor. 144 00:07:15.959 --> 00:07:18.660 Yes, in curse of fatal death. 145 00:07:18.720 --> 00:07:21.480 Now, after that little potted history of the Avengers. get 146 00:07:21.480 --> 00:07:22.139 straight into it. 147 00:07:22.199 --> 00:07:23.399 Man eater of Surrey Green. 148 00:07:23.459 --> 00:07:26.699 Richard, I'd like you to lead this off because you know even more 149 00:07:26.699 --> 00:07:27.660 about the Avengers than I do. 150 00:07:27.720 --> 00:07:28.680 It's difficult. 151 00:07:28.740 --> 00:07:32.579 This is my 2nd love after Doctor Who, and it's something that hung 152 00:07:32.579 --> 00:07:33.300 about me. 153 00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:37.199 I 1st discovered the Avengers with Joanna Lumley in the role of 154 00:07:37.199 --> 00:07:39.660 the, I suppose you could actually say closest to the M appeal 155 00:07:39.660 --> 00:07:40.079 character. 156 00:07:40.139 --> 00:07:43.560 The thing about the Avengers, just like Doctor Who, is that it 157 00:07:43.560 --> 00:07:49.439 reinvented itself, but it always stayed within the tenet of what 158 00:07:49.439 --> 00:07:53.040 it presupposed, what the viewer presupposed they were going to 159 00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:53.339 see. 160 00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:56.579 In Doctor Who's case, it's the figure of the doctor and the TARDIS 161 00:07:56.579 --> 00:07:59.040 but actually only the TARDIS remains relatively unchanging. 162 00:07:59.100 --> 00:08:01.560 In the Avengers, it was Patrick McNee. 163 00:08:01.620 --> 00:08:02.220 He was always there. 164 00:08:02.279 --> 00:08:06.000 He represented the old school, he represented Britain, the 165 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:07.740 establishment, but he didn't. 166 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:08.759 He subverted it. 167 00:08:08.819 --> 00:08:10.199 He took advantage of it. 168 00:08:10.259 --> 00:08:11.220 He purloined it. 169 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:14.639 Pat was at Eton with Christopher Lee. 170 00:08:14.699 --> 00:08:17.040 They were good mates and they did a little puppet show, little 171 00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:20.699 puppet school together, but then Pat later went on to say he also 172 00:08:20.699 --> 00:08:24.839 ran the school's pornography racket and was expelled because of 173 00:08:24.839 --> 00:08:25.079 that. 174 00:08:25.139 --> 00:08:28.319 And he did a lot of other really creative things and that he 175 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:29.939 really is the character of Steed. 176 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:32.639 It's very clever film critics in the UK have said that the 177 00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:34.799 Avengers actually invented postmodernism. 178 00:08:34.860 --> 00:08:37.019 So now we've moved on from German expressionism. 179 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:40.559 Now I hear you will take a sigh, but it really does in that it 180 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:43.559 plays around with ideas and throws it up in the air. 181 00:08:43.620 --> 00:08:47.399 In this story, it does it with Dave the Triffords. 182 00:08:47.460 --> 00:08:50.700 And it does it with science fiction generally. 183 00:08:50.759 --> 00:08:53.100 It's the 1st science fiction story that the Avengers ever does. 184 00:08:53.159 --> 00:08:54.840 And it actually does it beautifully. 185 00:08:54.899 --> 00:08:56.279 It's 1965. 186 00:08:56.519 --> 00:08:58.860 So we're right there with Thunderboose is just starting. 187 00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:03.120 Billy is still piloting the TARDIS, I take it that Ian and Barbara 188 00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:05.639 are still ricocheting around with him and with Vicky. 189 00:09:05.700 --> 00:09:06.240 Quite possibly. 190 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:07.379 Yes, quite possibly. 191 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:08.940 So we're still early days. 192 00:09:09.059 --> 00:09:11.039 It just does incredibly beautiful things. 193 00:09:11.100 --> 00:09:15.240 You can see how Robert Banks Stewart has been criticised for 194 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:18.960 reusing Avenger scripts that he actually he didn't write. 195 00:09:19.019 --> 00:09:20.820 I was writing in this period. 196 00:09:20.940 --> 00:09:22.080 He was for the Avengers. 197 00:09:22.139 --> 00:09:26.340 Oh, well, Castle DF is very much Terror of the Zygons, and this 198 00:09:26.340 --> 00:09:28.259 one is very much Seeds of Doom. 199 00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:31.200 It's the secondary carry, just that really do it. 200 00:09:31.259 --> 00:09:34.320 Okay, there's a plant from outer space, in the Avengers, it's 201 00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:35.759 caught up with a British rocket. 202 00:09:35.820 --> 00:09:39.120 I love that Britain, just like in Doctor Who, and just like in 203 00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:40.679 Quader Mass, has a space program. 204 00:09:40.740 --> 00:09:44.460 One of their spacemen disappeared a year ago and has never been 205 00:09:44.460 --> 00:09:45.059 seen no more. 206 00:09:45.120 --> 00:09:49.019 It's funny that no one seems to have heard or noticed that, but... 207 00:09:49.080 --> 00:09:51.240 Wing Commander, what's his face, does that? 208 00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:52.080 that hushed it up. 209 00:09:52.139 --> 00:09:53.700 He's our generic character, isn't he? 210 00:09:53.820 --> 00:09:57.600 I think he gets mulched by Harrison Chase. later on. 211 00:09:57.659 --> 00:09:59.759 Well, we were all into recycling, aren't we? 212 00:09:59.820 --> 00:10:00.720 stories as much as people. 213 00:10:00.779 --> 00:10:04.019 And also, the space plant travels in pairs because there's the one 214 00:10:04.019 --> 00:10:05.460 that hit the shuttle, which is dead. 215 00:10:05.580 --> 00:10:09.419 But then there's the one that's being cultivated in the eccentric 216 00:10:09.419 --> 00:10:10.679 botanist's land. 217 00:10:10.679 --> 00:10:11.940 He prefers plants to people. 218 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:14.759 Inst of a mad campy Harrison Chase. 219 00:10:14.820 --> 00:10:20.580 We have the very saturnine and far more controlled figure of... 220 00:10:20.580 --> 00:10:21.419 Sir Lyle Peterson. 221 00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:22.320 That's the one. 222 00:10:22.500 --> 00:10:26.879 So we don't get Sir Lyle Peterson immediately, though. when it 223 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:27.360 opens. 224 00:10:27.419 --> 00:10:30.000 And as I haven't watched a lot of Avengers. 225 00:10:30.059 --> 00:10:31.740 Well, I can tell you, this is the other thing. 226 00:10:31.799 --> 00:10:34.500 The structure of the Avengers, unlike Doctor Who, is always the 227 00:10:34.500 --> 00:10:34.860 same. 228 00:10:34.919 --> 00:10:35.940 Yes, no, no. 229 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:37.679 I have... 230 00:10:37.679 --> 00:10:38.879 It's a 4 act playing. 231 00:10:38.940 --> 00:10:39.840 You start, yeah, yeah. 232 00:10:39.899 --> 00:10:41.820 So 2nd act is introducing the villain. 233 00:10:41.879 --> 00:10:46.860 We start initially with Alan and Laura and they're in love. 234 00:10:46.919 --> 00:10:51.659 They're a lovely Terrence Rashican couple from lovely drawing 235 00:10:51.659 --> 00:10:51.960 room. 236 00:10:52.799 --> 00:10:53.519 British theatre. 237 00:10:53.580 --> 00:10:56.220 And of course, it's going to be horribly subverted and something 238 00:10:56.220 --> 00:10:57.240 you're going to go horribly wrong. 239 00:10:57.299 --> 00:10:58.139 She gets it. 240 00:10:58.200 --> 00:11:00.720 She wanders off, tramples through the daisies, even though they're 241 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:03.600 suddenly, and gets into Goldfingers Rolls-Royce. 242 00:11:03.659 --> 00:11:05.460 So you know it's not going to end well. 243 00:11:05.580 --> 00:11:09.720 So we have a sinister chauffeur as well, like the scenes of doom. 244 00:11:09.779 --> 00:11:13.440 In any other show, the closing scene would be the 2 of them 245 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:15.899 getting back together after being separated. 246 00:11:16.019 --> 00:11:19.019 But somehow I think that's not, things aren't going to work out 247 00:11:19.019 --> 00:11:20.159 for Alan and Laura. 248 00:11:20.220 --> 00:11:23.580 The most striking thing as someone who's watched Doctor Who of 249 00:11:23.580 --> 00:11:26.700 this period is that it's in a laboratory and there's a window 250 00:11:26.700 --> 00:11:30.539 behind them and you can see things through the window and then 251 00:11:30.539 --> 00:11:33.600 they walk outside and then they're outside beyond the window. 252 00:11:33.659 --> 00:11:36.720 Doctor Who never has windows, you can see things through because 253 00:11:36.720 --> 00:11:37.919 it's all shot in the studio. 254 00:11:37.980 --> 00:11:43.559 But this is a beautiful location and just superb film work, I 255 00:11:43.559 --> 00:11:43.799 think. 256 00:11:43.860 --> 00:11:44.700 Brendan. 257 00:11:44.759 --> 00:11:48.000 And well, when you do see things through a window in Doctor Who, as 258 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:51.299 we see in the Android invasion, it has no bearing with what is 259 00:11:51.299 --> 00:11:52.799 actually outside on the location. 260 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:57.659 The film era of the Avengers, they really took advantage of the 261 00:11:57.659 --> 00:11:59.100 film equality of it. 262 00:11:59.159 --> 00:12:03.419 And Douglas Canfield, of course, was a big fan of film direction. 263 00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:07.620 So even though in the seeds of doom, he is shooting on outside 264 00:12:07.620 --> 00:12:10.919 broadcast video, he shoots it like he's using fare. 265 00:12:10.980 --> 00:12:12.299 He does a great job of it too. 266 00:12:12.360 --> 00:12:16.139 I was thinking that, I mean, the ob broadcasting must have been 267 00:12:16.139 --> 00:12:19.080 something he couldn't have been too happy about, but he really 268 00:12:19.080 --> 00:12:21.480 really goes to town and directs it incredibly well. 269 00:12:21.539 --> 00:12:25.139 So the 1st striking thing about Alan is that he's wearing a 270 00:12:25.139 --> 00:12:29.159 hearing aid and it's, I suppose it's like Chekhov's hearing aid 271 00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:29.759 really, isn't it? 272 00:12:29.820 --> 00:12:34.320 It's, he's the 1st of 3 deaf characters in this story and that's 273 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:37.440 going to be important to its, um, its resolution. 274 00:12:37.500 --> 00:12:40.679 And so after that scene, which introduces them. 275 00:12:40.740 --> 00:12:43.559 This is the other Avengers trope, which you can tell us about 276 00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:44.279 Richard. 277 00:12:44.340 --> 00:12:45.480 It the teaser, isn't it? 278 00:12:45.539 --> 00:12:50.220 And so the teaser is the sexiest exposition trope ever invented 279 00:12:50.220 --> 00:12:51.120 for television. 280 00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:53.700 Are we up to the cactus yet? 281 00:12:53.759 --> 00:12:55.379 No, no, no. 282 00:12:55.379 --> 00:12:57.840 That's sexy in a completely different way. 283 00:12:57.899 --> 00:12:59.700 It's a bit with the roses, isn't it? 284 00:12:59.820 --> 00:13:01.139 where Steve's watering his own plant. 285 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:04.019 This is far more romantic, of course, this whole season than the 286 00:13:04.019 --> 00:13:07.740 honour blackman one, which was actually kind of abrasive, and very 287 00:13:07.740 --> 00:13:08.940 much... 288 00:13:10.019 --> 00:13:14.279 The theory, the theory with the honour Blackman one was that Steed 289 00:13:14.279 --> 00:13:19.559 was very romantically or sexually interested, yeah. 290 00:13:19.620 --> 00:13:21.600 And she, she was not. 291 00:13:21.659 --> 00:13:25.919 Now, of course, Kathy Gale and Appeal are both portrayed as widows 292 00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:29.580 the characters, but Kathy doesn't want a bar of steed in that way 293 00:13:29.580 --> 00:13:33.240 and often objects to his methods and what have you, with Steed and 294 00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:34.019 Mrs. Peel. 295 00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:38.519 The production team and the actors all have the opinion of because 296 00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:41.639 with the bright young things of the 60s all being interested in 297 00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:45.659 the Avengers, Shipping is not a modern idea, dear listener. 298 00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:49.320 People were asking in the 60s, ooh, Steve and Mrs. Peel, have they 299 00:13:49.320 --> 00:13:49.980 or haven't they? 300 00:13:50.039 --> 00:13:52.740 And the production team, as far as they were concerned. 301 00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:55.860 And you couldn't imagine this happening with Doctor Who and a 302 00:13:55.860 --> 00:13:56.279 companion. 303 00:13:56.340 --> 00:13:57.419 Thank God. 304 00:13:57.539 --> 00:14:00.840 The production team's perspective was... 305 00:14:00.899 --> 00:14:01.799 Yes, they have. 306 00:14:01.860 --> 00:14:04.740 But what we see is always the morning after. 307 00:14:05.340 --> 00:14:06.899 Interestingly. 308 00:14:06.899 --> 00:14:08.460 They've gone out of their system. 309 00:14:08.519 --> 00:14:09.659 When they were both interviewed. 310 00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:13.620 McNee maintained, yes, they always had, Rig maintained, no they 311 00:14:13.620 --> 00:14:14.039 never did. 312 00:14:14.340 --> 00:14:19.740 And you get that lovely duality that is really reflected in the 313 00:14:19.740 --> 00:14:20.220 scenes. 314 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:22.559 It is very lightness and touch and very romantic. 315 00:14:22.620 --> 00:14:25.320 It's more, if you were looking at what it was, I don't suppose 316 00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:28.799 anybody knows the thin man films anymore with Myrna Loi and 317 00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:32.100 William Powell, but they're very much the style of this lovely 318 00:14:32.100 --> 00:14:32.879 romantic thing. 319 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:34.139 So, yes, he's growing roses. 320 00:14:34.259 --> 00:14:38.460 And speed is very much within the capitalist spectrum, but 321 00:14:38.460 --> 00:14:39.600 constantly subverting it. 322 00:14:39.659 --> 00:14:43.620 Emma Peel's father was a leading manufacturer and industrialist. 323 00:14:44.580 --> 00:14:46.679 Knight was his name. 324 00:14:46.740 --> 00:14:47.340 Yes. 325 00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:52.080 Yeah So, yeah, but they're still very, they're kind of, they are 326 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:53.700 as I keep saying, they are subversive. 327 00:14:53.759 --> 00:14:55.980 There's a socialist meme to this. 328 00:14:56.039 --> 00:14:58.980 They're really, they're really outside the system. 329 00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:02.279 He's growing his own... 330 00:15:02.340 --> 00:15:05.580 And it's free enterprise and, you know, he's kind of getting 331 00:15:05.580 --> 00:15:07.980 around the whole capitalist system that way. 332 00:15:08.039 --> 00:15:12.659 But he always has a way of cajoling the story and the heroin into 333 00:15:12.659 --> 00:15:13.559 the narrative. 334 00:15:13.620 --> 00:15:14.639 Yeah, so that's discuss it here. 335 00:15:14.700 --> 00:15:18.059 That's what the purpose of this scene is and it is a trope in the 336 00:15:18.059 --> 00:15:18.779 Avengers, isn't it? 337 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:22.139 Every scene has this teaser where they're bantering and being sort 338 00:15:22.139 --> 00:15:23.700 of blurty and stuff. 339 00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:25.980 In the black and white season, it's far more involved and 340 00:15:25.980 --> 00:15:28.860 discourse ridden in the colour series. 341 00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:31.440 You just get a little visual teaser because everything's 342 00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:34.019 simplified once it becomes made for the American series. 343 00:15:34.139 --> 00:15:37.919 But again, why I think this one works and why it's interesting to 344 00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:41.340 Doctor Who and to this particular story of Doctor Who, The Seeds 345 00:15:41.340 --> 00:15:44.159 of Doom, is that the characters, you can kind of lift them 346 00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:46.860 straight out and put them into the Doctor Who story and they would 347 00:15:46.860 --> 00:15:47.100 fit. 348 00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:52.500 We have a professor of botany who is almost Amelia Ducart, but 349 00:15:52.500 --> 00:15:55.379 it's actually just Margaret Rutherford without bicycle. 350 00:15:55.559 --> 00:15:59.639 And then you have Salyle, who is Harrison Chase, only not as 351 00:15:59.639 --> 00:16:00.299 crazy. 352 00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:01.799 Well, not as camp. 353 00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:02.759 Or as camp. 354 00:16:02.820 --> 00:16:03.240 Well, no. 355 00:16:03.299 --> 00:16:04.620 Doesn't have a lovely bow tie, though. 356 00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:07.379 I thought he must have been in Doctor Who, because he's a very 357 00:16:07.379 --> 00:16:08.639 that guy sort of thing. 358 00:16:08.700 --> 00:16:09.779 His name's Derek Farr. 359 00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:11.759 Yeah, I don't believe he has. 360 00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:16.919 No, but he is Ensor, the creator of Aorak. which is where you've 361 00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:17.700 all seen him before. 362 00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:21.779 So yeah, he kind of got mad Professor parts, really, didn't he? 363 00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:25.259 Yeah, so he's actually quite low key, and he and Steed have lovely 364 00:16:25.259 --> 00:16:27.720 banter about drinking whiskey, which is something that you have to 365 00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:28.320 approve of. 366 00:16:28.379 --> 00:16:32.039 And he only really reveals how crazy he is when he starts feeding 367 00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:37.080 blue bottles to his fly trumpet Venus fly. which is suddenly a 368 00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:38.039 really big thing this year. 369 00:16:38.460 --> 00:16:41.639 I mean, no one had ever heard of Venus Flytraps before the mid 370 00:16:40.860 --> 00:16:41.639 60s. 371 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:45.059 It's little shop of horrors and the Adams family and... 372 00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:47.879 It's almost certain that the puppet makers had never seen a Venus 373 00:16:47.879 --> 00:16:48.480 flash. 374 00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:50.340 I don't know. 375 00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:51.600 I've got a cat that's a bit like it. 376 00:16:51.659 --> 00:16:54.480 But yeah, I mean, that whole scene, and especially the lead up to 377 00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:57.720 it was Steed and the sort of the ivy covered hallway with the 378 00:16:57.720 --> 00:17:00.480 strange mannequins covered in ivy, and he gets that great line. 379 00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:03.120 This mannequin is just wearing a boa of ivy and nothing else. 380 00:17:03.179 --> 00:17:04.920 And he says, I'd love to see you come the autumn. 381 00:17:04.980 --> 00:17:07.500 Oh, look forward to seeing more of you coming. 382 00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:08.099 That's right. 383 00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:13.140 It's very evocative of Harrison Chase's 1st scene, or rather 384 00:17:13.140 --> 00:17:15.420 Harrison Chase's 1st scene is very evocative of it. 385 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:18.299 You know, Chase immediately he starts talking about plants. 386 00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:21.119 And this steed ingratiates himself by saying he wants to say 387 00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:21.660 plants. 388 00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:24.720 And straight away, Sir Lyle is like, yes, we must save the 389 00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:25.019 plants. 390 00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:30.779 A lot of people have said that seeds of doom is a copy of that 391 00:17:30.779 --> 00:17:31.920 Avengers episode. 392 00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:33.960 No, no, I think it's far more likely. 393 00:17:34.019 --> 00:17:35.880 Of course, Robert Banks Stewart was working on the Avengers. 394 00:17:35.940 --> 00:17:37.619 I think it's far more likely he also watched it. 395 00:17:37.980 --> 00:17:42.599 And just the ideas, like any good writer, the ideas got lodged in 396 00:17:42.599 --> 00:17:43.740 his brain. 397 00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:46.920 And when he came time to write this Doctor Who story later, he 398 00:17:46.920 --> 00:17:49.980 still had the ideas of this Avengers story in his head. 399 00:17:50.039 --> 00:17:57.900 And as we discussed in our podcasts on season 13 of Doctor Who, The 400 00:17:57.900 --> 00:18:01.680 production team were interested in making the team of the Doctor 401 00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:05.880 and Sarah more like Steed and Mrs. Peel, more like an Avengers 402 00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:09.779 kind of witty repartee intellectual equals relationship. 403 00:18:09.900 --> 00:18:11.220 Yes, very much so. 404 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:15.599 In Seeds of Doom, the doctor and Sarah are called in by the World 405 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:19.200 Ecology Bureau, but it's not clear who they're working for. 406 00:18:19.259 --> 00:18:22.799 And that's, I mean, Steed and Mrs. Peel, presumably they work for 407 00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:23.160 someone. 408 00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:27.119 And obviously they pin it down once Tara King comes along. 409 00:18:27.180 --> 00:18:31.079 But here it's really not at all clear what their job is or who's 410 00:18:31.079 --> 00:18:33.599 employing them sort of thing and they just sort of are sort of 411 00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:35.400 freelance troublemakers. 412 00:18:35.460 --> 00:18:40.619 And of course, Steed always calls Mrs. Peel, Mrs. Peel, never Emma 413 00:18:40.619 --> 00:18:43.740 except for one instance, and right at the end. 414 00:18:43.799 --> 00:18:47.220 And um, the doctor introduces Sarah. 415 00:18:47.220 --> 00:18:49.380 This is Miss Smith. 416 00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:50.099 She's my best friend. 417 00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:54.059 But I think what's so telling just to get to the nub before maybe 418 00:18:54.059 --> 00:18:57.059 we get to the exposition, because everything in the Avengers is 419 00:18:57.059 --> 00:19:01.680 about inversion, turning things around, is that Doctor Who is most 420 00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:05.940 successful, when it takes bricolage, if you like, when it takes 421 00:19:05.940 --> 00:19:10.559 pieces from many other different stories and genres and mediums 422 00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:15.539 film, TV, literature, Doctor Who will put loin, all of them and 423 00:19:15.539 --> 00:19:18.420 subvert them and use them themselves, the Avengers did it 1st and 424 00:19:18.420 --> 00:19:22.380 the Avengers was possibly the 1st television series to ever be 425 00:19:22.380 --> 00:19:25.980 postmodern in the way that it actually has too much in it to fit 426 00:19:25.980 --> 00:19:27.059 into one story. 427 00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:28.319 There are too many references. 428 00:19:28.380 --> 00:19:30.720 There are too many tropes, would you say? 429 00:19:30.779 --> 00:19:35.519 There are too many symbols and symbolisms. too much going on. 430 00:19:35.579 --> 00:19:39.839 It's actually counterproductive for an easy understanding for an 431 00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:43.680 audience member who were used to shows like Maigre, Danger Man, for 432 00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:44.099 instance. 433 00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:45.839 Avengers is not a spy show. 434 00:19:45.900 --> 00:19:48.420 There is one thing I would like to make really clear. 435 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:53.460 It's a comedy, subversion, and fun making of the British Empire 436 00:19:53.460 --> 00:19:55.259 and decline of film. 437 00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:59.039 Ultimately, it's about TV, just like Doctor Who is about TV. 438 00:19:59.099 --> 00:20:01.980 But this is about other kinds of television. 439 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:03.359 This is about empire films. 440 00:20:03.420 --> 00:20:07.140 This is actually, this one is purloining Ealing comedies. 441 00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:11.880 You can really imagine Peter Sellers and Alistair Sims doing a 442 00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:15.119 science fiction story of this, and the Avengers simply jump in 443 00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:19.019 from the side, subvert it, make fun of it, throw along some silly 444 00:20:19.019 --> 00:20:19.440 lines. 445 00:20:19.500 --> 00:20:21.480 There's some great things when he says, all that old thing. 446 00:20:21.539 --> 00:20:23.940 And she said, obviously, no, I didn't feel that originality was 447 00:20:23.940 --> 00:20:26.039 needed here, whenever they do an escape sequence. 448 00:20:26.099 --> 00:20:28.799 Everything is always turned inside out. 449 00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:32.160 Even to the state that McNee said, I always played the woman and 450 00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:33.420 the woman always played the man. 451 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:36.539 And it's true that she's generally rescuing Steve. 452 00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:37.680 She's terrific. 453 00:20:37.740 --> 00:20:39.480 She is given all of the physical stuff to do. 454 00:20:39.539 --> 00:20:43.200 Speaking of which, don't you wish we'd got a Tom and Liz slap off 455 00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:46.740 the way that we get Steve and Mrs. Peel really go for it in the 456 00:20:46.740 --> 00:20:46.980 end. 457 00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:48.299 Mrs. Peel is taken over. 458 00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:51.660 Like Mrs. Peel has a gun, you know, she shoots the... 459 00:20:51.660 --> 00:20:52.319 Both barrels. 460 00:20:52.380 --> 00:20:53.160 Yeah, yeah. 461 00:20:53.220 --> 00:20:53.700 Right. 462 00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:55.440 Take that Colin fate. 463 00:20:55.500 --> 00:20:58.619 Yeah, I mean, but she also makes him be the man. 464 00:20:58.680 --> 00:21:02.099 So they go to a farm and I'm not quite sure how she tracks down 465 00:21:02.099 --> 00:21:06.480 some equipment and the farm is where they find the space ship 466 00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:08.640 capsule under a haystack. 467 00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:14.880 But Mrs. Peel just hands steed the shovel and just expects to 468 00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:19.259 stand back and he can do the man's work. you know, in that case. 469 00:21:19.319 --> 00:21:22.680 But otherwise, you know, she's the one gun toting and fighting and 470 00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:22.980 all of that. 471 00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:25.559 There are lovely stories where he's making her doing the rowing 472 00:21:25.559 --> 00:21:27.779 when they're in a punt, and you can just imagine. 473 00:21:27.900 --> 00:21:31.380 It's actually quite like Tom standing up in shard with poor old 474 00:21:31.380 --> 00:21:34.440 Lana sitting down in the in the punch doing the same thing. 475 00:21:34.500 --> 00:21:36.299 But yeah, yeah. he's a gentleman. 476 00:21:36.359 --> 00:21:38.759 You know, even though he's beautifully dressed and he's 477 00:21:38.759 --> 00:21:40.440 spectacularly well dressed. 478 00:21:40.500 --> 00:21:41.220 His clothes are lovely. 479 00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:41.940 He chosen himself. 480 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:46.200 It is, and it is a combination of that, you know, the way a mid 481 00:21:45.660 --> 00:21:49.319 20th century gentleman dresses, but it's updated for the 60s. 482 00:21:49.500 --> 00:21:50.819 But it's also very trad. 483 00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:52.140 It's an Edwardian style. 484 00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:55.559 And Kingsley Amis has commented on this when he talked about James 485 00:21:55.559 --> 00:21:56.220 Bond. 486 00:21:56.279 --> 00:21:59.819 And you say, you know, every man wanted to be Bond in the 60s. 487 00:21:59.880 --> 00:22:02.160 He was masculinity in apotheosis. 488 00:22:02.220 --> 00:22:05.099 No one would have actually wanted to have done steed directly 489 00:22:05.099 --> 00:22:06.720 because it's just a bit too camp. 490 00:22:06.779 --> 00:22:11.160 It's a bit too much. boldlerized as a pun. 491 00:22:11.220 --> 00:22:12.000 And that's the point. 492 00:22:12.059 --> 00:22:16.380 He's not, he doesn't fit into the story and she doesn't fit either 493 00:22:16.380 --> 00:22:18.660 but they're both too interesting for the story itself. 494 00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:21.720 Yeah, the doctor and Sarah don't really fit into the story. 495 00:22:21.779 --> 00:22:22.200 Do they? 496 00:22:22.259 --> 00:22:25.680 But we're very, very glad that they're there, not just because, you 497 00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:29.460 know, they help to save the world, but because if Seeds of Doom 498 00:22:29.460 --> 00:22:33.059 didn't have the doctor and Sarah, it would be, it'd be an episode 499 00:22:33.059 --> 00:22:36.960 of Doomwatch or an episode of the professionals with a sort of 500 00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:39.960 science fiction flair, both of which are decent shows in their own 501 00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:40.319 right. 502 00:22:40.380 --> 00:22:43.980 But it would lack a lot of the warmth and the heart that those 503 00:22:43.980 --> 00:22:44.880 characters bring. 504 00:22:44.940 --> 00:22:48.000 Same with Steve and Mrs. Peel, bring the warmth and the heart to 505 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:48.359 the story. 506 00:22:48.420 --> 00:22:52.140 And they're just funnier and sexier than anyone else on the 507 00:22:52.140 --> 00:22:52.380 screen. 508 00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:53.099 Yeah, absolutely. 509 00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:55.920 Laura and Alan are movie stars. 510 00:22:55.980 --> 00:22:56.819 Beautiful Alan. 511 00:22:57.359 --> 00:22:59.880 Yeah, they're they're John. 512 00:22:59.940 --> 00:23:01.799 Yeah, they're John and Martha. 513 00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:03.660 That's why it has to be horribly ruined. 514 00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:04.619 Thank you. 515 00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:05.460 The categories. 516 00:23:05.460 --> 00:23:09.480 Because you can't have straight people in the Avengers. 517 00:23:09.539 --> 00:23:10.799 They don't fit. 518 00:23:10.859 --> 00:23:13.380 You're not allowed to have a normal run. 519 00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:14.940 And that's the wickedness of it. 520 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:18.599 The audience in the 60s were getting what was going on, even if it 521 00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:19.079 wasn't conscious. 522 00:23:19.140 --> 00:23:21.779 So they were undermining that convention. 523 00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:24.779 Yeah, stars have to be got together at the end. 524 00:23:24.900 --> 00:23:28.559 Everything has to be about restoring that sort of heterosexual 525 00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:29.640 couple at the end. 526 00:23:29.700 --> 00:23:31.559 Watching this, I'm thinking more. 527 00:23:31.619 --> 00:23:34.440 Seeing the Avengers now, again, if we're watching them again, I'm 528 00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:38.279 thinking more of Peter Cook and his club, the establishment. 529 00:23:38.339 --> 00:23:42.359 Peter Cook and Dudley Moore as much as in not only but also their 530 00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:43.500 sketch review show. 531 00:23:43.559 --> 00:23:46.980 But if you look again at Peter Cook's Club, it started in the 532 00:23:46.980 --> 00:23:49.740 early 60s, it was stand-up comedy. 533 00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:54.000 Barry Humphreys made his debut in London stage then with Dave 534 00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:54.660 Edna. 535 00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:56.819 And it was just, it was anything but the establishment. 536 00:23:56.880 --> 00:23:58.619 It's about playing around with ideas. 537 00:23:58.680 --> 00:24:02.759 Satire was sadly, unfortunately, with all things like trends and 538 00:24:02.759 --> 00:24:05.880 fashion, satire kind of went out of fashion, but goodness when it 539 00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:07.319 was very necessary in the 60s. 540 00:24:07.380 --> 00:24:09.359 We've mentioned the perfume most candle before. 541 00:24:09.420 --> 00:24:12.240 The Avengers is satirising science fiction in this. 542 00:24:12.299 --> 00:24:14.819 This is a comedy take on SF. 543 00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:19.019 So it's, you know, it's showing how silly everything is, but it's 544 00:24:19.019 --> 00:24:19.559 still enjoying it. 545 00:24:19.619 --> 00:24:24.000 But they balance the comedy very well because the problem with, and 546 00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:27.119 Douglas Adams talked about this with this time with Doctor Who, he 547 00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:29.940 said, the problem with injecting humour into a drama series is 548 00:24:29.940 --> 00:24:33.000 people start taking as an opportunity to do silly voices and silly 549 00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:33.359 walks. 550 00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:36.180 And if you do that, you undermine the drama. 551 00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:41.519 Now, in the Avengers, there is comedy in there, but Steed and Mrs 552 00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:44.759 Peel, while they may joke about the threat, they never treat the 553 00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:45.599 threat as a joke. 554 00:24:45.660 --> 00:24:47.700 It's a very difficult thing to get right. 555 00:24:47.819 --> 00:24:50.039 And you can see from the Avengers film. 556 00:24:50.099 --> 00:24:53.099 I mean, they never seem, particularly Mrs. Peel. 557 00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:56.039 They never seem like they're really in danger. 558 00:24:56.099 --> 00:24:57.119 Do you know what I mean? 559 00:24:57.299 --> 00:24:59.940 Mrs. Peel just looks like she could walk out of the frame and 560 00:24:59.940 --> 00:25:01.259 she'd be fine. 561 00:25:01.319 --> 00:25:03.660 What about the fight scene when she's taken over? 562 00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:04.619 They're not stressed by it. 563 00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:05.400 Do you know what I mean? 564 00:25:05.460 --> 00:25:07.019 They never distressed or upset, I think. 565 00:25:07.140 --> 00:25:09.539 Yeah, except in the end. 566 00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:14.279 But the threat, you know, we were complaining about the violence 567 00:25:14.279 --> 00:25:17.339 in Seeds of Doom, but this is actually vastly more violent than 568 00:25:17.339 --> 00:25:17.579 that. 569 00:25:17.700 --> 00:25:22.619 So you get, you get the delivery man who goes to investigate Sir 570 00:25:22.619 --> 00:25:25.019 Lyle, you know, what are we doing with all of these, the 571 00:25:25.019 --> 00:25:26.339 fertiliser? 572 00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:26.880 Yeah, yeah. 573 00:25:26.940 --> 00:25:30.539 And then he's hypnotised by the plant and so he stands still while 574 00:25:30.539 --> 00:25:34.619 Lennox, the chauffeur, just shoots him full blank in the chest or 575 00:25:34.619 --> 00:25:34.920 whatever. 576 00:25:34.980 --> 00:25:42.539 You get an utterly horrifying scene, which is the hypnotised Laura 577 00:25:42.539 --> 00:25:47.579 is working in Sir Lyle's estate. 578 00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:51.779 Alan goes to get her, and he calls out to her, and she ignores him 579 00:25:51.779 --> 00:25:54.720 because she's hypnotised, and so he climbs up the fence and he's 580 00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:59.220 electrocuted to death, and she, you know, barely bats an island. 581 00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:01.140 She's kind of wand so chilly to see what's happened. 582 00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:03.359 And it's beautifully directed as well. 583 00:26:03.420 --> 00:26:05.460 Like the, it's so well shot. 584 00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:09.960 And so there is, you know, there's there's genuine horror in it in 585 00:26:09.960 --> 00:26:11.519 this darker than Doctor Who. 586 00:26:11.579 --> 00:26:15.119 The aforementioned moment where Mrs. Peel shoots the chauffeur 587 00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:16.619 point blank with a shotgun. 588 00:26:16.680 --> 00:26:21.000 I think we learn that the entire population of Surrey Green and 589 00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:24.960 all of the scientists, including Laura, have all been eaten by the 590 00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:28.799 monster by the time Steve and Mrs. Peel arrive. they're famous for 591 00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:29.460 that, aren't they? 592 00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:32.339 They often arrive after they've heard those. 593 00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:33.240 Yeah, yeah, yes, yes. 594 00:26:33.299 --> 00:26:36.000 Somebody once said, I would hate to be an expert in anything if 595 00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:38.460 Steve and Mrs. Peel turned up because I'd be dead by this. 596 00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:42.900 Yeah, there was a, there was a quote that was used in an ad for 597 00:26:42.900 --> 00:26:45.480 the Avengers, which then made it into one of the colour episodes 598 00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:50.279 where they arrive on a scene and Mrs. Peel says, where's the body 599 00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:51.599 and sees his, what body? 600 00:26:51.720 --> 00:26:53.880 And Mrs. Peel says, there's always a bottle. 601 00:26:54.599 --> 00:26:59.400 Something I found very interesting about that confrontation scene 602 00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:00.240 when it starts. 603 00:27:00.299 --> 00:27:03.660 And I hadn't noticed it until this time around is, they're able to 604 00:27:03.660 --> 00:27:06.480 realise that something's gone wrong by going to the pub and the 605 00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:08.759 only person left there is the guy with the hearing aid because 606 00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:12.119 spoiler alert, the hearing aid blocks the hypnotic signal. 607 00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:15.359 Even if you don't need it because Stephen Mrs. Peel both put one 608 00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:15.599 on. 609 00:27:15.660 --> 00:27:18.900 As they make their way to the house, there's clothes strewn around 610 00:27:18.900 --> 00:27:19.740 everywhere. 611 00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:22.319 And thus the implication, which I never got before. 612 00:27:22.380 --> 00:27:28.319 The creature makes people peel themselves, like we would peel a 613 00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:28.980 banana. 614 00:27:29.099 --> 00:27:33.240 Don't you think it just eats them whole and then spits out the 615 00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:33.480 clothes? 616 00:27:33.539 --> 00:27:35.160 Well, no, because Mad a monster? 617 00:27:35.220 --> 00:27:37.859 Because there's no indication that it's made it as far as the 618 00:27:37.859 --> 00:27:38.279 pub. 619 00:27:38.339 --> 00:27:40.619 It's still sitting on top of the house like the crinoid dips. 620 00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:44.339 So it's drawn the people to it and as they've come along, they're 621 00:27:44.339 --> 00:27:45.059 peeling themselves. 622 00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:46.079 They're removing their clothes. 623 00:27:46.079 --> 00:27:48.539 And that's how we find the Avengers breaks one of their own rules 624 00:27:48.539 --> 00:27:51.480 because one of the rules that Brian Clemens institutes with the 625 00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:55.319 film seasons of the Avengers is that no women are to be killed. 626 00:27:55.380 --> 00:27:56.880 Laura cops it. 627 00:27:56.880 --> 00:28:00.779 Laura cops, and we know that because Emma finds her shoe. 628 00:28:00.839 --> 00:28:04.740 And it's one of the few times that we see Emma Peel, because Emma 629 00:28:04.740 --> 00:28:07.019 Peel, one of her character traits says she's unflappable. 630 00:28:07.079 --> 00:28:09.839 She's not emotionless, but she isn't affected. 631 00:28:09.900 --> 00:28:12.180 And she picks up the shoe. 632 00:28:12.180 --> 00:28:15.599 And the look on Diana Riggs's face, there is pain there, you know 633 00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:17.519 because she's her old friend. 634 00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:17.940 Exactly. 635 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:19.319 She's an old friend. 636 00:28:19.380 --> 00:28:23.099 Not only is she an old friend, but 1st of all, her fiance has 637 00:28:23.099 --> 00:28:26.099 reported her missing and then he's gone missing. 638 00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:28.440 And yeah, she comes to the realisation of what has happened. 639 00:28:28.500 --> 00:28:33.119 And it's a small moment, but it helps offset this sort of 640 00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:36.539 unflappable nature of the character. 641 00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:38.460 There's fabulous violence at the end. 642 00:28:38.519 --> 00:28:39.000 Yes. 643 00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:39.960 Can we have the end? 644 00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:43.740 Another thing that it shares with Seeds of Doom is, of course, it 645 00:28:43.740 --> 00:28:47.220 ends up in a house that's covered by a giant many tentacled 646 00:28:47.220 --> 00:28:49.319 monster, and we don't see it. 647 00:28:49.380 --> 00:28:53.940 There's no sort of crummy model work or anything like that. 648 00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:58.019 So there's just sort of shapes moving outside the house and we see 649 00:28:58.019 --> 00:29:01.079 the occasional tentacle and stuff and a tentacle comes and drags 650 00:29:01.079 --> 00:29:07.740 off Lennox's body after Mrs. Peel shoots him and poor old lesbian 651 00:29:07.740 --> 00:29:11.640 botanist Miss Sheldon gets sort of hauled off and they just 652 00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:12.660 managed to rescue her. 653 00:29:12.779 --> 00:29:16.980 But one of the tendrils knocks the of the hearing aid out of Mrs 654 00:29:16.980 --> 00:29:18.900 Peel's ear. 655 00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:19.380 Yes. 656 00:29:19.380 --> 00:29:23.460 And so she's possessed by the plant and she starts pouring on the 657 00:29:23.460 --> 00:29:27.180 floor, all of the, um, the never-ending buckler. 658 00:29:27.180 --> 00:29:31.440 Fertiliser, they've, not fertiliser. a bottle of herbicide that 659 00:29:31.440 --> 00:29:33.539 they've brought to kill the creature. 660 00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:38.819 And so we have a wonderful fight sequence between Mrs. Peel. 661 00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:41.339 I'm resolved I wasn't going to call her Emma this story. 662 00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:45.000 Mrs. Bell and Steed, where they're stunt doubles. 663 00:29:45.059 --> 00:29:47.940 Like we thought we were hard done by when we... 664 00:29:47.940 --> 00:29:48.599 And you know what? 665 00:29:49.619 --> 00:29:52.319 Often, often Sid Child, who is a pretty convincing double for 666 00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:53.880 Diana Rigg would do the stunts. 667 00:29:53.940 --> 00:29:56.579 I don't think that's Sid Child doing the fight. 668 00:29:56.640 --> 00:30:01.200 I think it's a chap, you know, it's it's like it's like Stuart 669 00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:02.700 fell doubling for Katie Manning. 670 00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:06.660 Katie Manning suddenly has the shoulders of a bricklayer. 671 00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:10.500 Yeah, and there's a terrible, like, like they don't attempt to 672 00:30:10.500 --> 00:30:13.140 give the stunt double a steed wig either, do they? 673 00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:17.039 No, well, the thing is, Rocky Taylor had similar hair to Patrick 674 00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:18.000 McNee anyway. 675 00:30:18.059 --> 00:30:20.940 It didn't quite have the wave, and it's not until the end of the 676 00:30:20.940 --> 00:30:23.819 colour season that they realise they actually have to style it in 677 00:30:23.819 --> 00:30:24.480 a similar way. 678 00:30:25.259 --> 00:30:27.480 I mean, you know, it's the whole thing. 679 00:30:27.480 --> 00:30:29.880 I remember you watching on a screen the size of your iPhone. 680 00:30:29.940 --> 00:30:31.500 Yeah, that's true. 681 00:30:31.559 --> 00:30:31.920 It was. 682 00:30:31.980 --> 00:30:32.880 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 683 00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:34.440 And the different lines as well, yeah. 684 00:30:34.500 --> 00:30:36.480 And I think the film is kinder to it now. 685 00:30:36.539 --> 00:30:37.259 Do you know what I mean? 686 00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:39.180 Because now we can see on our big screen sometimes. 687 00:30:39.299 --> 00:30:43.259 And yeah, it's been digitally rescanned and restored. 688 00:30:43.259 --> 00:30:45.660 We talk about the lighting. like the score of this as well. 689 00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:47.279 Yeah, talk about the way it's lit. 690 00:30:47.339 --> 00:30:50.400 And yeah, well, the lighting when the creature is attacking 691 00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:52.200 becomes darker and darker and darker. 692 00:30:52.259 --> 00:30:53.700 We don't see that many tendrils. 693 00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:56.339 It's done with the lighting and it's done with sound design. 694 00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:58.680 But that fight is brutal. 695 00:30:58.740 --> 00:31:00.000 And I think... 696 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:01.200 It's great, isn't it? 697 00:31:01.259 --> 00:31:05.279 There have been very few times where the 2 main characters in the 698 00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:07.799 Avengers have had to fight one another. 699 00:31:07.859 --> 00:31:12.000 I can think of a couple of examples in the honour Blackman era. 700 00:31:12.059 --> 00:31:15.119 There are 2 times where Kathy has to subdue Steed. 701 00:31:15.180 --> 00:31:21.359 And even then she only does it with the strictly limited necessary 702 00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:22.980 amount of force to do so. 703 00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:25.500 Whereas this, because Emma's possessed. 704 00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:28.319 It just keeps going and going and going. 705 00:31:28.380 --> 00:31:31.500 You know, it's not a couple of knocks and she's out, and 706 00:31:31.500 --> 00:31:34.799 eventually they practically have to give each other concussions to 707 00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:35.279 knock around. 708 00:31:35.400 --> 00:31:36.359 The expression helped. 709 00:31:36.359 --> 00:31:38.460 Well, he... 710 00:31:38.519 --> 00:31:39.420 He headbutts are. 711 00:31:39.480 --> 00:31:41.519 Yeah. 712 00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:42.420 It's a liveable kiss. 713 00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:46.440 Well, she is a Liverpool less, like... 714 00:31:46.440 --> 00:31:47.759 Luckily, it's likely... 715 00:31:47.819 --> 00:31:48.839 Yeah, yeah, he is. 716 00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:52.259 Once she's unconscious and this is horrifying. 717 00:31:52.380 --> 00:31:54.539 I watched this twice and I didn't properly notice it the 1st time 718 00:31:54.539 --> 00:31:56.220 I might have been tired. 719 00:31:56.279 --> 00:32:00.960 But then he just liberally pores herbicide all over her and leaves 720 00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:02.039 her for the tentacle. 721 00:32:02.099 --> 00:32:06.180 And she's dragged off under the beast. 722 00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:09.240 And it is a bit confusing because she's then in the corridor 723 00:32:09.240 --> 00:32:10.799 without her coat far away. 724 00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:13.859 So there's one of 2 things that have happened and there's still 725 00:32:13.859 --> 00:32:15.420 debate amongst the fandom. 726 00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:18.720 Apparently, the original intent in the script was that it would be 727 00:32:18.720 --> 00:32:21.420 revealed as she was dragging out that Steve had actually put the 728 00:32:21.420 --> 00:32:23.759 coat on one of the mannequins in order to fool the creature. 729 00:32:23.819 --> 00:32:25.619 But it doesn't come across on screen. 730 00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:28.680 So the implication on screen... 731 00:32:28.740 --> 00:32:31.259 The implication on the screen is that the creatures spatter out 732 00:32:31.259 --> 00:32:31.740 afterwards. 733 00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:34.740 Either way, you know, it's a very nail biting ending. 734 00:32:34.859 --> 00:32:36.599 It's a bit brutal though. 735 00:32:36.660 --> 00:32:40.500 Yeah, it is Mrs. Pale, you know, and then 5 minutes later they're 736 00:32:40.500 --> 00:32:42.359 on a hay rick, you know, flirting again. 737 00:32:42.420 --> 00:32:45.839 And of course, don't forget, Steed is a herbicidal. 738 00:32:45.900 --> 00:32:46.559 Yeah, brilliant. 739 00:32:46.619 --> 00:32:51.119 And yeah, we then do get what is known as the tag scene, which 740 00:32:51.119 --> 00:32:55.019 comes in in the film series. 741 00:32:55.079 --> 00:32:58.440 So in this series for the tag scene, as always, they're making a 742 00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:01.859 getaway on some related vehicle in series 5 and six. 743 00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:05.579 It's sort of a witty commentary on the story that's come before. 744 00:33:05.700 --> 00:33:08.700 Yeah, so they're making their getaway on a hay bale and have a 745 00:33:08.700 --> 00:33:10.859 chat about going to a horticultural centre. 746 00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:12.180 But no creepers, please. 747 00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:18.900 It's the stylistic performances and we can be so banal, but it's 748 00:33:18.900 --> 00:33:25.259 the way that Rig and McNee play off each other that feels to me as 749 00:33:25.259 --> 00:33:29.400 the closest to seeds of doom, even over and above the storylines 750 00:33:29.400 --> 00:33:30.960 and similarities. 751 00:33:31.019 --> 00:33:35.819 It's the camaraderie between Regan and McNee are very much Liz and 752 00:33:35.819 --> 00:33:36.299 Tom. 753 00:33:36.359 --> 00:33:38.880 And I, we've mentioned before. 754 00:33:38.940 --> 00:33:43.500 Was it Hinchcliffe who said he wanted an Avengers style, but 755 00:33:43.559 --> 00:33:44.339 between the leagues. 756 00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:45.539 I think he certainly gets it. 757 00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:49.859 I actually, even at the time thinking, without using the words, but 758 00:33:49.859 --> 00:33:52.740 as a doctor and Sarah, intimate. 759 00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:55.380 Oh, you see, I don't think so at all. 760 00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:56.700 And in fact, I... 761 00:33:56.819 --> 00:33:57.420 No. 762 00:33:57.480 --> 00:34:01.619 In fact, Tom is really cold all the way through, Seeds of Doom, and 763 00:34:01.619 --> 00:34:03.180 really angry and dismissive. 764 00:34:03.180 --> 00:34:08.039 And he's... short with Sarah, though, a few times. 765 00:34:08.099 --> 00:34:09.960 And so the kind of warmth. 766 00:34:10.019 --> 00:34:10.559 Yeah, yeah. 767 00:34:10.619 --> 00:34:12.420 Don't relationships sometimes go that way? 768 00:34:12.659 --> 00:34:14.219 That's it. 769 00:34:14.280 --> 00:34:16.559 Because you know where that was coming from in Seeds of Doom 770 00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:16.679 though. 771 00:34:16.739 --> 00:34:20.699 But that's because both he and Dougie Canfield were so unhappy 772 00:34:20.699 --> 00:34:23.579 with the script, apparently. that they said, you know, we've got 773 00:34:23.579 --> 00:34:24.300 to ramp it up somehow. 774 00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:28.440 He's kind of unpleasant to her, I think, whereas Steed, like just 775 00:34:28.440 --> 00:34:32.760 the warm from the way they dig at each other, Steve, and Mrs. Peel 776 00:34:32.760 --> 00:34:33.300 is wonderful. 777 00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:35.280 Like she mocks him, he mocks her. 778 00:34:35.340 --> 00:34:39.420 We didn't even mention the cactus, you know, we're almost out of 779 00:34:39.420 --> 00:34:39.599 time. 780 00:34:39.659 --> 00:34:42.719 So I think that's the last thing we're going to talk about. 781 00:34:42.780 --> 00:34:43.920 There's a dildo in the event. 782 00:34:43.980 --> 00:34:47.760 There is this very phallically shaped cactus that's put under 783 00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:50.699 Steve... not the same cactus under the settee. 784 00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:51.780 No, indeed. 785 00:34:51.840 --> 00:34:54.239 It's foot under steed seat, and he notices it and takes it back to 786 00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:57.780 Emma, who says that it is poisonous or venomous. would have killed 787 00:34:57.780 --> 00:34:58.019 him. 788 00:34:58.079 --> 00:35:00.000 And then it rolls under the settee. 789 00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:03.000 And this is a sign of how dynamic things are on the Avengers, even 790 00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:04.679 though it was filmed, they had the same kind of script 791 00:35:04.679 --> 00:35:05.219 turnaround. 792 00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:07.440 I am convinced that there was a scene in there where someone 793 00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:12.059 attacks them in Steed's flat and falls on the cactus and that was 794 00:35:12.059 --> 00:35:16.679 dropped, but we still have this, we have a vestigial phallic 795 00:35:16.679 --> 00:35:18.480 cactus in the event. 796 00:35:18.539 --> 00:35:19.980 Is that the name of this episode? 797 00:35:20.099 --> 00:35:22.679 That's just the Avengers to a team. handing it to each other. 798 00:35:22.739 --> 00:35:24.539 Yeah, it's delightful. 799 00:35:24.780 --> 00:35:27.780 Oh, I think I'm going to go back and watch the whole thing. 800 00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:29.880 What was that other show we did the podcast when I can't 801 00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:30.239 remember? 802 00:35:30.300 --> 00:35:31.320 No idea. 803 00:35:35.639 --> 00:35:39.239 Well, that's definitely all the time we have for the Avengers this 804 00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:39.360 week. 805 00:35:39.420 --> 00:35:42.780 Don't worry, we will be back on Doctor Who next week with The Mask 806 00:35:42.780 --> 00:35:43.619 of Mad Dragra. 807 00:35:43.679 --> 00:35:45.960 Nathan and I will be back and Todd will be joining us. 808 00:35:46.019 --> 00:35:48.719 Richard, you'll join us again. climbing up into that octahedron 809 00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:49.559 loading up there. 810 00:35:49.619 --> 00:35:50.880 I remember to wear long trousers. 811 00:35:50.940 --> 00:35:53.639 Yes, you will be back for Horror of Fangs Rock. 812 00:35:53.699 --> 00:35:54.420 Definite threat. 813 00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:55.019 Season 15. 814 00:35:55.260 --> 00:35:56.760 Do please join us. 815 00:35:56.820 --> 00:35:59.460 Find us online with Flightthrough Entires.com, flight through 816 00:35:59.460 --> 00:36:02.699 entirety on Facebook and iTunes, FTE podcast on Twitter. 817 00:36:02.760 --> 00:36:06.420 And don't forget, we also have our 2nd podcast, James Bond 818 00:36:06.420 --> 00:36:08.699 commentary is on Bond Finger up and running. 819 00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:13.320 So that's bondfinger.com or at bondfingercast on Twitter 820 00:36:13.320 --> 00:36:15.360 bondfinger on Facebook as well. 821 00:36:15.420 --> 00:36:18.900 Until then, thank you very much for listening, and may all your 822 00:36:18.900 --> 00:36:20.519 champagne be perfectly chilled. 823 00:36:20.579 --> 00:36:21.539 I'm Brendan. 824 00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:22.019 Thank you very much. 825 00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:23.880 Good night, Chin Chin. 826 00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:29.639 Backwards, flat your entirety with Nathan Boffinley, Brendan Jones 827 00:36:29.639 --> 00:36:30.420 and Richard Stone. 828 00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:34.500 This episode, sexiest exposition trope, was recording on July the 829 00:36:34.500 --> 00:36:34.980 11th. 830 00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:37.619 The next episode will be released on September 13th. 831 00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:40.800 You can find much the same excitement as this story in our new 832 00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:43.079 bomb finger commentary on from Russia with love. 833 00:36:43.139 --> 00:36:45.119 Although probably not a green man. 834 00:36:51.239 --> 00:36:54.480 Hello and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor 835 00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:57.780 Who podcast, which this week is talking about the Avengers. 836 00:36:58.380 --> 00:37:00.599 I'll have the fan fan there. 837 00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:03.420 I'm Brendan.