WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:16:49 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.480 I mean, this was the weirdest episode of Doctor Who I've ever seen. 2 00:00:03.540 --> 00:00:05.639 Why are we back in black and white again? 3 00:00:05.700 --> 00:00:07.860 And like, why is Tom Baker wearing a bowler? 4 00:00:07.980 --> 00:00:08.640 Do you know what I mean? 5 00:00:08.699 --> 00:00:09.720 And where's the Tartars? 6 00:00:09.779 --> 00:00:11.580 The whole thing just made no sense at all. 7 00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:46.679 Hello and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast, which this week is talking about... 8 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:54.240 The Avengers. 9 00:00:54.299 --> 00:00:55.560 I'm Brendan. 10 00:00:55.619 --> 00:00:56.579 I'm Nathan. 11 00:00:56.640 --> 00:00:59.640 And I'm a suffering pseudopod for this episode. 12 00:01:00.780 --> 00:01:04.620 So we are talking about an Avengers episode this week. 13 00:01:04.680 --> 00:01:10.680 The man eater of sorry, Green, which many of you as an antecedent to Seeds of Doom. 14 00:01:10.739 --> 00:01:12.959 Now, Seeds of Doom had many antecedents. 15 00:01:13.019 --> 00:01:23.459 It had the thing from another whirlwind, which we've discussed, Day of the Triffords, Quator Mass, but this is possibly a lesser known one for modern viewers, which is why we decided to talk about it. 16 00:01:23.519 --> 00:01:36.959 For those of you not familiar with the Avengers, and maybe you've only seen the episode that we're talking about this week, for which we posted a YouTube link online, The Avengers was a 1960s spy and espionage series. 17 00:01:37.019 --> 00:01:44.819 It was also one of the 1st ones to be to have the label applied spy-fi because it ended up having science fictional elements within it. 18 00:01:44.879 --> 00:01:54.480 It had a strange beginning in that it came originally from a series called Police Surgeon, in which an actor called Ian Hendry was playing a surgeon attached to the police. 19 00:01:54.540 --> 00:01:58.079 That series ran for 13 episodes before it ran into script trouble. 20 00:01:58.140 --> 00:02:01.680 Plus it wasn't actually terribly popular, but Ian Hendry was. 21 00:02:01.739 --> 00:02:06.840 So a new show was developed around him playing a new character, again playing a doctor. 22 00:02:06.900 --> 00:02:17.639 But in this case, the doctor's fiance was killed by underworld figures, who had accidentally delivered to her a package full of drugs and killed her to silence her. 23 00:02:17.699 --> 00:02:18.599 She still had no idea. 24 00:02:18.659 --> 00:02:23.280 Into the picture comes a spy called John Steed. 25 00:02:23.580 --> 00:02:34.020 And together with Ian Hendry's, Dr. Keel, they work to take down underground masterminds and what have you. 26 00:02:34.080 --> 00:02:36.300 The men who sell illegal fruit. 27 00:02:36.840 --> 00:02:39.479 It wasn't all entirely fantastic. 28 00:02:39.539 --> 00:02:45.599 No, it was the longest running show, um, spice show of the 60s. 161 episodes. 29 00:02:45.659 --> 00:02:53.460 And it was, it very quickly stopped being about spies and started being about the medium itself and probably the greatest television show of war time. 30 00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:54.840 Can we just do a podcast on this? 31 00:02:54.900 --> 00:02:56.460 It's a much more fun movie. 32 00:02:56.699 --> 00:02:58.979 Well, very soon. 33 00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:06.960 Within the 1st year, Ian Hendry, who was the star of the show, there was a writer's strike, which halted production, and he was getting lots of film offers. 34 00:03:07.020 --> 00:03:13.439 So he used the strike because he was sort of contracted for a period of time rather than a period of episodes. 35 00:03:13.500 --> 00:03:22.500 He used to strike to get out of his contract, and Patrick McNee as John Steed, who has unfortunately recently passed away at a ripe old age of 93, carried on with the show as the lead. 36 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:26.580 And that's when it really transmogrified into this larger than life spy series. 37 00:03:26.639 --> 00:03:30.960 He was joined in that era by Honour Blackman. 38 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:32.759 So what season does she join? 39 00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:39.539 She joins in season two. along with Julie Stevens, who is also famous for presenting Play School in the UK. 40 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:41.039 What was her character? 41 00:03:41.099 --> 00:03:45.599 Her character was Venus Smith, Venus Smith, as a nightclub singer. 42 00:03:45.659 --> 00:03:49.199 On a Blackman played Kathy Gale, an anthropologist. 43 00:03:49.979 --> 00:03:52.979 And we own her. in terror of the verboids. 44 00:03:53.039 --> 00:03:55.319 And of course, Goldfinger. and Goldfinger. 45 00:03:55.379 --> 00:04:04.259 Steed was also briefly joined by a temporary character called Dr. Martin King, who was played by John Rollerson, familiar with our listeners as Harold Chorley from the web of fear. 46 00:04:04.319 --> 00:04:05.099 Brilliant. 47 00:04:05.159 --> 00:04:20.399 After 2 years on a left-to-do goldfinger, and America started buying the series, but bought it on the proviso that it be made on film and in colour, to which the producers in England very quickly said, well, look, we can't afford to do one. 48 00:04:20.459 --> 00:04:24.000 We can afford to do film more colour this year and then go to the other one next year. 49 00:04:24.060 --> 00:04:25.379 So they said, right, film, please. 50 00:04:25.439 --> 00:04:35.399 And that's where Diana Rigg comes in as Emma Peel, who is, I would say, unarguably the most famous Avengers Girl, if you like, or Avengers Woman, sidekick to Steed. 51 00:04:35.459 --> 00:04:39.420 And is she like the sexiest woman ever to appear on television? 52 00:04:39.480 --> 00:04:40.439 She really is. 53 00:04:40.500 --> 00:04:41.879 Maybe Barbara Felden. 54 00:04:41.939 --> 00:04:49.319 Barbara Felden was lovely from Get Smart, but she did it demurely and with a certain faintness. 55 00:04:49.379 --> 00:04:56.519 It's kind of wrong to say the sidekick, because even McNee admits, he was the sidekick. and Mrs. Peel was the lead. 56 00:04:56.579 --> 00:04:58.439 So we own Diana Rigg as well. 57 00:04:58.500 --> 00:04:59.639 We own Diana Rigg as well. 58 00:04:59.699 --> 00:05:01.800 She has appeared in Doctor Who in the Crimson Horror. 59 00:05:01.860 --> 00:05:06.180 And she was in the unfairly underrated Game of Thrones. 60 00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:07.500 The throne. 61 00:05:07.560 --> 00:05:09.300 No one's talking about that at all. 62 00:05:09.420 --> 00:05:13.920 She just doesn't mind looking like a terrifying crone, does she now that she's older. 63 00:05:13.980 --> 00:05:19.019 But she's, of course, in on her majesty's secret service. 64 00:05:19.079 --> 00:05:19.740 Indeed. 65 00:05:19.800 --> 00:05:25.139 After one black and white film season and one colour film season, Diana left the Avengers. 66 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:28.560 It was a gruelling filming schedule, despite the fact they were working on film. 67 00:05:28.620 --> 00:05:33.959 It was more like a television videotape production schedule as the 1st 3 series had been. 68 00:05:34.199 --> 00:05:39.540 And between her 1st and 2nd series, she discovered that she was being paid less than the cameraman. 69 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:45.779 And she managed to get her salary tripled because she threatened to leave. 70 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:52.019 But she made it very clear from the beginning of season 5 that she would be leaving at the end of that season. 71 00:05:52.079 --> 00:05:55.920 And so she did, she went on to do on Her Majesty's Secret Service. 72 00:05:55.980 --> 00:06:00.180 She was replaced by a very polarising figure in Avengers fandom. 73 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:07.620 Linda Thorson as Tara King, who played a Cardassian, who played a Cardassian in Star Trek, has yet to appear in Doctor Who. 74 00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:09.000 Stephen Moffat, are you listening? 75 00:06:09.060 --> 00:06:10.139 We want Linda Thorson. 76 00:06:10.199 --> 00:06:11.819 I don't think he is. 77 00:06:14.759 --> 00:06:17.699 Now, Tara's character was a lot. 78 00:06:17.759 --> 00:06:30.060 Younger had a lot less experience than her 2 predecessors, but still held her own very well, had a great chemistry with Patrick McNee, and Patrick McNee spoke very fondly of all of his co-stars that he worked with. 79 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:44.879 Around this time that the Seeds of Doom was on, the Avengers had actually been revived as the new Avengers, still featuring Patrick McNee, and also Joanna Lumley in her 1st major TV role after she'd appeared in one Her Majesty's Secret Service. 80 00:06:44.939 --> 00:06:46.620 She's so fabulous. 81 00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:47.579 She gets like one line. 82 00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:54.779 We'll get there And Gareth Hunt. as Mike Gambit. from Metabolist 3. from Metabolist 3. 83 00:06:54.959 --> 00:06:56.699 So there are many, many Doctor Who leagues. 84 00:06:56.759 --> 00:07:11.699 And even more, if you look at the guest cast, but the only major cast members of the Avengers who haven't appeared in Doctor Who, are the sadly departed, Ian Hendry, the now sadly departed Patrick McNee, and, of course, Linda Fawson. 85 00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:15.899 So it's not too late to get Linda, of course, because Joanna has played the doctor. 86 00:07:15.959 --> 00:07:18.660 Yes, in curse of fatal death. 87 00:07:18.720 --> 00:07:22.139 Now, after that little potted history of the Avengers. get straight into it. 88 00:07:22.199 --> 00:07:23.399 Man eater of Surrey Green. 89 00:07:23.459 --> 00:07:27.660 Richard, I'd like you to lead this off because you know even more about the Avengers than I do. 90 00:07:27.720 --> 00:07:28.680 It's difficult. 91 00:07:28.740 --> 00:07:33.300 This is my 2nd love after Doctor Who, and it's something that hung about me. 92 00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:40.079 I 1st discovered the Avengers with Joanna Lumley in the role of the, I suppose you could actually say closest to the M appeal character. 93 00:07:40.139 --> 00:07:53.339 The thing about the Avengers, just like Doctor Who, is that it reinvented itself, but it always stayed within the tenet of what it presupposed, what the viewer presupposed they were going to see. 94 00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:59.040 In Doctor Who's case, it's the figure of the doctor and the TARDIS, but actually only the TARDIS remains relatively unchanging. 95 00:07:59.100 --> 00:08:01.560 In the Avengers, it was Patrick McNee. 96 00:08:01.620 --> 00:08:02.220 He was always there. 97 00:08:02.279 --> 00:08:07.740 He represented the old school, he represented Britain, the establishment, but he didn't. 98 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:08.759 He subverted it. 99 00:08:08.819 --> 00:08:10.199 He took advantage of it. 100 00:08:10.259 --> 00:08:11.220 He purloined it. 101 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:14.639 Pat was at Eton with Christopher Lee. 102 00:08:14.699 --> 00:08:25.079 They were good mates and they did a little puppet show, little puppet school together, but then Pat later went on to say he also ran the school's pornography racket and was expelled because of that. 103 00:08:25.139 --> 00:08:29.939 And he did a lot of other really creative things and that he really is the character of Steed. 104 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:34.799 It's very clever film critics in the UK have said that the Avengers actually invented postmodernism. 105 00:08:34.860 --> 00:08:37.019 So now we've moved on from German expressionism. 106 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:43.559 Now I hear you will take a sigh, but it really does in that it plays around with ideas and throws it up in the air. 107 00:08:43.620 --> 00:08:47.399 In this story, it does it with Dave the Triffords. 108 00:08:47.460 --> 00:08:50.700 And it does it with science fiction generally. 109 00:08:50.759 --> 00:08:53.100 It's the 1st science fiction story that the Avengers ever does. 110 00:08:53.159 --> 00:08:54.840 And it actually does it beautifully. 111 00:08:54.899 --> 00:08:56.279 It's 1965. 112 00:08:56.519 --> 00:08:58.860 So we're right there with Thunderboose is just starting. 113 00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:05.639 Billy is still piloting the TARDIS, I take it that Ian and Barbara are still ricocheting around with him and with Vicky. 114 00:09:05.700 --> 00:09:06.240 Quite possibly. 115 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:07.379 Yes, quite possibly. 116 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:08.940 So we're still early days. 117 00:09:09.059 --> 00:09:11.039 It just does incredibly beautiful things. 118 00:09:11.100 --> 00:09:18.960 You can see how Robert Banks Stewart has been criticised for reusing Avenger scripts that he actually he didn't write. 119 00:09:19.019 --> 00:09:20.820 I was writing in this period. 120 00:09:20.940 --> 00:09:22.080 He was for the Avengers. 121 00:09:22.139 --> 00:09:28.259 Oh, well, Castle DF is very much Terror of the Zygons, and this one is very much Seeds of Doom. 122 00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:31.200 It's the secondary carry, just that really do it. 123 00:09:31.259 --> 00:09:35.759 Okay, there's a plant from outer space, in the Avengers, it's caught up with a British rocket. 124 00:09:35.820 --> 00:09:40.679 I love that Britain, just like in Doctor Who, and just like in Quader Mass, has a space program. 125 00:09:40.740 --> 00:09:45.059 One of their spacemen disappeared a year ago and has never been seen no more. 126 00:09:45.120 --> 00:09:49.019 It's funny that no one seems to have heard or noticed that, but... 127 00:09:49.080 --> 00:09:51.240 Wing Commander, what's his face, does that? 128 00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:52.080 that hushed it up. 129 00:09:52.139 --> 00:09:53.700 He's our generic character, isn't he? 130 00:09:53.820 --> 00:09:57.600 I think he gets mulched by Harrison Chase. later on. 131 00:09:57.659 --> 00:09:59.759 Well, we were all into recycling, aren't we? 132 00:09:59.820 --> 00:10:00.720 stories as much as people. 133 00:10:00.779 --> 00:10:05.460 And also, the space plant travels in pairs because there's the one that hit the shuttle, which is dead. 134 00:10:05.580 --> 00:10:10.679 But then there's the one that's being cultivated in the eccentric botanist's land. 135 00:10:10.679 --> 00:10:11.940 He prefers plants to people. 136 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:14.759 Inst of a mad campy Harrison Chase. 137 00:10:14.820 --> 00:10:20.580 We have the very saturnine and far more controlled figure of... 138 00:10:20.580 --> 00:10:21.419 Sir Lyle Peterson. 139 00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:22.320 That's the one. 140 00:10:22.500 --> 00:10:27.360 So we don't get Sir Lyle Peterson immediately, though. when it opens. 141 00:10:27.419 --> 00:10:30.000 And as I haven't watched a lot of Avengers. 142 00:10:30.059 --> 00:10:31.740 Well, I can tell you, this is the other thing. 143 00:10:31.799 --> 00:10:34.860 The structure of the Avengers, unlike Doctor Who, is always the same. 144 00:10:34.919 --> 00:10:35.940 Yes, no, no. 145 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:37.679 I have... 146 00:10:37.679 --> 00:10:38.879 It's a 4 act playing. 147 00:10:38.940 --> 00:10:39.840 You start, yeah, yeah. 148 00:10:39.899 --> 00:10:41.820 So 2nd act is introducing the villain. 149 00:10:41.879 --> 00:10:46.860 We start initially with Alan and Laura and they're in love. 150 00:10:46.919 --> 00:10:51.960 They're a lovely Terrence Rashican couple from lovely drawing room. 151 00:10:52.799 --> 00:10:53.519 British theatre. 152 00:10:53.580 --> 00:10:57.240 And of course, it's going to be horribly subverted and something you're going to go horribly wrong. 153 00:10:57.299 --> 00:10:58.139 She gets it. 154 00:10:58.200 --> 00:11:03.600 She wanders off, tramples through the daisies, even though they're suddenly, and gets into Goldfingers Rolls-Royce. 155 00:11:03.659 --> 00:11:05.460 So you know it's not going to end well. 156 00:11:05.580 --> 00:11:09.720 So we have a sinister chauffeur as well, like the scenes of doom. 157 00:11:09.779 --> 00:11:15.899 In any other show, the closing scene would be the 2 of them getting back together after being separated. 158 00:11:16.019 --> 00:11:20.159 But somehow I think that's not, things aren't going to work out for Alan and Laura. 159 00:11:20.220 --> 00:11:33.600 The most striking thing as someone who's watched Doctor Who of this period is that it's in a laboratory and there's a window behind them and you can see things through the window and then they walk outside and then they're outside beyond the window. 160 00:11:33.659 --> 00:11:37.919 Doctor Who never has windows, you can see things through because it's all shot in the studio. 161 00:11:37.980 --> 00:11:43.799 But this is a beautiful location and just superb film work, I think. 162 00:11:43.860 --> 00:11:44.700 Brendan. 163 00:11:44.759 --> 00:11:52.799 And well, when you do see things through a window in Doctor Who, as we see in the Android invasion, it has no bearing with what is actually outside on the location. 164 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:59.100 The film era of the Avengers, they really took advantage of the film equality of it. 165 00:11:59.159 --> 00:12:03.419 And Douglas Canfield, of course, was a big fan of film direction. 166 00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:10.919 So even though in the seeds of doom, he is shooting on outside broadcast video, he shoots it like he's using fare. 167 00:12:10.980 --> 00:12:12.299 He does a great job of it too. 168 00:12:12.360 --> 00:12:21.480 I was thinking that, I mean, the ob broadcasting must have been something he couldn't have been too happy about, but he really, really goes to town and directs it incredibly well. 169 00:12:21.539 --> 00:12:29.759 So the 1st striking thing about Alan is that he's wearing a hearing aid and it's, I suppose it's like Chekhov's hearing aid, really, isn't it? 170 00:12:29.820 --> 00:12:37.440 It's, he's the 1st of 3 deaf characters in this story and that's going to be important to its, um, its resolution. 171 00:12:37.500 --> 00:12:40.679 And so after that scene, which introduces them. 172 00:12:40.740 --> 00:12:44.279 This is the other Avengers trope, which you can tell us about Richard. 173 00:12:44.340 --> 00:12:45.480 It the teaser, isn't it? 174 00:12:45.539 --> 00:12:51.120 And so the teaser is the sexiest exposition trope ever invented for television. 175 00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:53.700 Are we up to the cactus yet? 176 00:12:53.759 --> 00:12:55.379 No, no, no. 177 00:12:55.379 --> 00:12:57.840 That's sexy in a completely different way. 178 00:12:57.899 --> 00:12:59.700 It's a bit with the roses, isn't it? 179 00:12:59.820 --> 00:13:01.139 where Steve's watering his own plant. 180 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:08.940 This is far more romantic, of course, this whole season than the honour blackman one, which was actually kind of abrasive, and very much... 181 00:13:10.019 --> 00:13:19.559 The theory, the theory with the honour Blackman one was that Steed was very romantically or sexually interested, yeah. 182 00:13:19.620 --> 00:13:21.600 And she, she was not. 183 00:13:21.659 --> 00:13:34.019 Now, of course, Kathy Gale and Appeal are both portrayed as widows, the characters, but Kathy doesn't want a bar of steed in that way and often objects to his methods and what have you, with Steed and Mrs. Peel. 184 00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:45.659 The production team and the actors all have the opinion of because with the bright young things of the 60s all being interested in the Avengers, Shipping is not a modern idea, dear listener. 185 00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:49.980 People were asking in the 60s, ooh, Steve and Mrs. Peel, have they or haven't they? 186 00:13:50.039 --> 00:13:52.740 And the production team, as far as they were concerned. 187 00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:56.279 And you couldn't imagine this happening with Doctor Who and a companion. 188 00:13:56.340 --> 00:13:57.419 Thank God. 189 00:13:57.539 --> 00:14:00.840 The production team's perspective was... 190 00:14:00.899 --> 00:14:01.799 Yes, they have. 191 00:14:01.860 --> 00:14:04.740 But what we see is always the morning after. 192 00:14:05.340 --> 00:14:06.899 Interestingly. 193 00:14:06.899 --> 00:14:08.460 They've gone out of their system. 194 00:14:08.519 --> 00:14:09.659 When they were both interviewed. 195 00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:14.039 McNee maintained, yes, they always had, Rig maintained, no they never did. 196 00:14:14.340 --> 00:14:20.220 And you get that lovely duality that is really reflected in the scenes. 197 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:22.559 It is very lightness and touch and very romantic. 198 00:14:22.620 --> 00:14:32.879 It's more, if you were looking at what it was, I don't suppose anybody knows the thin man films anymore with Myrna Loi and William Powell, but they're very much the style of this lovely romantic thing. 199 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:34.139 So, yes, he's growing roses. 200 00:14:34.259 --> 00:14:39.600 And speed is very much within the capitalist spectrum, but constantly subverting it. 201 00:14:39.659 --> 00:14:43.620 Emma Peel's father was a leading manufacturer and industrialist. 202 00:14:44.580 --> 00:14:46.679 Knight was his name. 203 00:14:46.740 --> 00:14:47.340 Yes. 204 00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:53.700 Yeah So, yeah, but they're still very, they're kind of, they are, as I keep saying, they are subversive. 205 00:14:53.759 --> 00:14:55.980 There's a socialist meme to this. 206 00:14:56.039 --> 00:14:58.980 They're really, they're really outside the system. 207 00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:02.279 He's growing his own... 208 00:15:02.340 --> 00:15:07.980 And it's free enterprise and, you know, he's kind of getting around the whole capitalist system that way. 209 00:15:08.039 --> 00:15:13.559 But he always has a way of cajoling the story and the heroin into the narrative. 210 00:15:13.620 --> 00:15:14.639 Yeah, so that's discuss it here. 211 00:15:14.700 --> 00:15:18.779 That's what the purpose of this scene is and it is a trope in the Avengers, isn't it? 212 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:23.700 Every scene has this teaser where they're bantering and being sort of blurty and stuff. 213 00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:28.860 In the black and white season, it's far more involved and discourse ridden in the colour series. 214 00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:34.019 You just get a little visual teaser because everything's simplified once it becomes made for the American series. 215 00:15:34.139 --> 00:15:47.100 But again, why I think this one works and why it's interesting to Doctor Who and to this particular story of Doctor Who, The Seeds of Doom, is that the characters, you can kind of lift them straight out and put them into the Doctor Who story and they would fit. 216 00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:55.379 We have a professor of botany who is almost Amelia Ducart, but it's actually just Margaret Rutherford without bicycle. 217 00:15:55.559 --> 00:16:00.299 And then you have Salyle, who is Harrison Chase, only not as crazy. 218 00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:01.799 Well, not as camp. 219 00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:02.759 Or as camp. 220 00:16:02.820 --> 00:16:03.240 Well, no. 221 00:16:03.299 --> 00:16:04.620 Doesn't have a lovely bow tie, though. 222 00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:08.639 I thought he must have been in Doctor Who, because he's a very that guy sort of thing. 223 00:16:08.700 --> 00:16:09.779 His name's Derek Farr. 224 00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:11.759 Yeah, I don't believe he has. 225 00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:17.700 No, but he is Ensor, the creator of Aorak. which is where you've all seen him before. 226 00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:21.779 So yeah, he kind of got mad Professor parts, really, didn't he? 227 00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:28.320 Yeah, so he's actually quite low key, and he and Steed have lovely banter about drinking whiskey, which is something that you have to approve of. 228 00:16:28.379 --> 00:16:38.039 And he only really reveals how crazy he is when he starts feeding blue bottles to his fly trumpet Venus fly. which is suddenly a really big thing this year. 229 00:16:38.460 --> 00:16:41.639 I mean, no one had ever heard of Venus Flytraps before the mid-60s. 230 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:45.059 It's little shop of horrors and the Adams family and... 231 00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:48.480 It's almost certain that the puppet makers had never seen a Venus flash. 232 00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:50.340 I don't know. 233 00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:51.600 I've got a cat that's a bit like it. 234 00:16:51.659 --> 00:17:00.480 But yeah, I mean, that whole scene, and especially the lead up to it was Steed and the sort of the ivy covered hallway with the strange mannequins covered in ivy, and he gets that great line. 235 00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:03.120 This mannequin is just wearing a boa of ivy and nothing else. 236 00:17:03.179 --> 00:17:04.920 And he says, I'd love to see you come the autumn. 237 00:17:04.980 --> 00:17:07.500 Oh, look forward to seeing more of you coming. 238 00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:08.099 That's right. 239 00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:15.420 It's very evocative of Harrison Chase's 1st scene, or rather Harrison Chase's 1st scene is very evocative of it. 240 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:18.299 You know, Chase immediately he starts talking about plants. 241 00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:21.660 And this steed ingratiates himself by saying he wants to say plants. 242 00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:25.019 And straight away, Sir Lyle is like, yes, we must save the plants. 243 00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:31.920 A lot of people have said that seeds of doom is a copy of that Avengers episode. 244 00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:33.960 No, no, I think it's far more likely. 245 00:17:34.019 --> 00:17:35.880 Of course, Robert Banks Stewart was working on the Avengers. 246 00:17:35.940 --> 00:17:37.619 I think it's far more likely he also watched it. 247 00:17:37.980 --> 00:17:43.740 And just the ideas, like any good writer, the ideas got lodged in his brain. 248 00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:49.980 And when he came time to write this Doctor Who story later, he still had the ideas of this Avengers story in his head. 249 00:17:50.039 --> 00:18:09.779 And as we discussed in our podcasts on season 13 of Doctor Who, The production team were interested in making the team of the Doctor and Sarah more like Steed and Mrs. Peel, more like an Avengers kind of witty repartee intellectual equals relationship. 250 00:18:09.900 --> 00:18:11.220 Yes, very much so. 251 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:19.200 In Seeds of Doom, the doctor and Sarah are called in by the World Ecology Bureau, but it's not clear who they're working for. 252 00:18:19.259 --> 00:18:23.160 And that's, I mean, Steed and Mrs. Peel, presumably they work for someone. 253 00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:27.119 And obviously they pin it down once Tara King comes along. 254 00:18:27.180 --> 00:18:35.400 But here it's really not at all clear what their job is or who's employing them sort of thing and they just sort of are sort of freelance troublemakers. 255 00:18:35.460 --> 00:18:43.740 And of course, Steed always calls Mrs. Peel, Mrs. Peel, never Emma, except for one instance, and right at the end. 256 00:18:43.799 --> 00:18:47.220 And um, the doctor introduces Sarah. 257 00:18:47.220 --> 00:18:49.380 This is Miss Smith. 258 00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:50.099 She's my best friend. 259 00:18:50.160 --> 00:19:27.059 But I think what's so telling just to get to the nub before maybe we get to the exposition, because everything in the Avengers is about inversion, turning things around, is that Doctor Who is most successful, when it takes bricolage, if you like, when it takes pieces from many other different stories and genres and mediums, film, TV, literature, Doctor Who will put loin, all of them and subvert them and use them themselves, the Avengers did it 1st and the Avengers was possibly the 1st television series to ever be postmodern in the way that it actually has too much in it to fit into one story. 260 00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:28.319 There are too many references. 261 00:19:28.380 --> 00:19:30.720 There are too many tropes, would you say? 262 00:19:30.779 --> 00:19:35.519 There are too many symbols and symbolisms. too much going on. 263 00:19:35.579 --> 00:19:44.099 It's actually counterproductive for an easy understanding for an audience member who were used to shows like Maigre, Danger Man, for instance. 264 00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:45.839 Avengers is not a spy show. 265 00:19:45.900 --> 00:19:48.420 There is one thing I would like to make really clear. 266 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:55.259 It's a comedy, subversion, and fun making of the British Empire and decline of film. 267 00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:59.039 Ultimately, it's about TV, just like Doctor Who is about TV. 268 00:19:59.099 --> 00:20:01.980 But this is about other kinds of television. 269 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:03.359 This is about empire films. 270 00:20:03.420 --> 00:20:07.140 This is actually, this one is purloining Ealing comedies. 271 00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:19.440 You can really imagine Peter Sellers and Alistair Sims doing a science fiction story of this, and the Avengers simply jump in from the side, subvert it, make fun of it, throw along some silly lines. 272 00:20:19.500 --> 00:20:21.480 There's some great things when he says, all that old thing. 273 00:20:21.539 --> 00:20:26.039 And she said, obviously, no, I didn't feel that originality was needed here, whenever they do an escape sequence. 274 00:20:26.099 --> 00:20:28.799 Everything is always turned inside out. 275 00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:33.420 Even to the state that McNee said, I always played the woman and the woman always played the man. 276 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:36.539 And it's true that she's generally rescuing Steve. 277 00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:37.680 She's terrific. 278 00:20:37.740 --> 00:20:39.480 She is given all of the physical stuff to do. 279 00:20:39.539 --> 00:20:46.980 Speaking of which, don't you wish we'd got a Tom and Liz slap off the way that we get Steve and Mrs. Peel really go for it in the end. 280 00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:48.299 Mrs. Peel is taken over. 281 00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:51.660 Like Mrs. Peel has a gun, you know, she shoots the... 282 00:20:51.660 --> 00:20:52.319 Both barrels. 283 00:20:52.380 --> 00:20:53.160 Yeah, yeah. 284 00:20:53.220 --> 00:20:53.700 Right. 285 00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:55.440 Take that Colin fate. 286 00:20:55.500 --> 00:20:58.619 Yeah, I mean, but she also makes him be the man. 287 00:20:58.680 --> 00:21:08.640 So they go to a farm and I'm not quite sure how she tracks down some equipment and the farm is where they find the space ship capsule under a haystack. 288 00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:19.259 But Mrs. Peel just hands steed the shovel and just expects to stand back and he can do the man's work. you know, in that case. 289 00:21:19.319 --> 00:21:22.980 But otherwise, you know, she's the one gun toting and fighting and all of that. 290 00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:27.779 There are lovely stories where he's making her doing the rowing when they're in a punt, and you can just imagine. 291 00:21:27.900 --> 00:21:34.440 It's actually quite like Tom standing up in shard with poor old Lana sitting down in the in the punch doing the same thing. 292 00:21:34.500 --> 00:21:36.299 But yeah, yeah. he's a gentleman. 293 00:21:36.359 --> 00:21:40.440 You know, even though he's beautifully dressed and he's spectacularly well dressed. 294 00:21:40.500 --> 00:21:41.220 His clothes are lovely. 295 00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:41.940 He chosen himself. 296 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:49.319 It is, and it is a combination of that, you know, the way a mid-20th century gentleman dresses, but it's updated for the 60s. 297 00:21:49.500 --> 00:21:50.819 But it's also very trad. 298 00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:52.140 It's an Edwardian style. 299 00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:56.220 And Kingsley Amis has commented on this when he talked about James Bond. 300 00:21:56.279 --> 00:21:59.819 And you say, you know, every man wanted to be Bond in the 60s. 301 00:21:59.880 --> 00:22:02.160 He was masculinity in apotheosis. 302 00:22:02.220 --> 00:22:06.720 No one would have actually wanted to have done steed directly because it's just a bit too camp. 303 00:22:06.779 --> 00:22:11.160 It's a bit too much. boldlerized as a pun. 304 00:22:11.220 --> 00:22:12.000 And that's the point. 305 00:22:12.059 --> 00:22:18.660 He's not, he doesn't fit into the story and she doesn't fit either, but they're both too interesting for the story itself. 306 00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:21.720 Yeah, the doctor and Sarah don't really fit into the story. 307 00:22:21.779 --> 00:22:22.200 Do they? 308 00:22:22.259 --> 00:22:40.319 But we're very, very glad that they're there, not just because, you know, they help to save the world, but because if Seeds of Doom didn't have the doctor and Sarah, it would be, it'd be an episode of Doomwatch or an episode of the professionals with a sort of science fiction flair, both of which are decent shows in their own right. 309 00:22:40.380 --> 00:22:44.880 But it would lack a lot of the warmth and the heart that those characters bring. 310 00:22:44.940 --> 00:22:48.359 Same with Steve and Mrs. Peel, bring the warmth and the heart to the story. 311 00:22:48.420 --> 00:22:52.380 And they're just funnier and sexier than anyone else on the screen. 312 00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:53.099 Yeah, absolutely. 313 00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:55.920 Laura and Alan are movie stars. 314 00:22:55.980 --> 00:22:56.819 Beautiful Alan. 315 00:22:57.359 --> 00:22:59.880 Yeah, they're they're John. 316 00:22:59.940 --> 00:23:01.799 Yeah, they're John and Martha. 317 00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:03.660 That's why it has to be horribly ruined. 318 00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:04.619 Thank you. 319 00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:05.460 The categories. 320 00:23:05.460 --> 00:23:09.480 Because you can't have straight people in the Avengers. 321 00:23:09.539 --> 00:23:10.799 They don't fit. 322 00:23:10.859 --> 00:23:13.380 You're not allowed to have a normal run. 323 00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:14.940 And that's the wickedness of it. 324 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:19.079 The audience in the 60s were getting what was going on, even if it wasn't conscious. 325 00:23:19.140 --> 00:23:21.779 So they were undermining that convention. 326 00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:24.779 Yeah, stars have to be got together at the end. 327 00:23:24.900 --> 00:23:29.640 Everything has to be about restoring that sort of heterosexual couple at the end. 328 00:23:29.700 --> 00:23:31.559 Watching this, I'm thinking more. 329 00:23:31.619 --> 00:23:38.279 Seeing the Avengers now, again, if we're watching them again, I'm thinking more of Peter Cook and his club, the establishment. 330 00:23:38.339 --> 00:23:43.500 Peter Cook and Dudley Moore as much as in not only but also their sketch review show. 331 00:23:43.559 --> 00:23:49.740 But if you look again at Peter Cook's Club, it started in the early 60s, it was stand-up comedy. 332 00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:54.660 Barry Humphreys made his debut in London stage then with Dave Edna. 333 00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:56.819 And it was just, it was anything but the establishment. 334 00:23:56.880 --> 00:23:58.619 It's about playing around with ideas. 335 00:23:58.680 --> 00:24:07.319 Satire was sadly, unfortunately, with all things like trends and fashion, satire kind of went out of fashion, but goodness when it was very necessary in the 60s. 336 00:24:07.380 --> 00:24:09.359 We've mentioned the perfume most candle before. 337 00:24:09.420 --> 00:24:12.240 The Avengers is satirising science fiction in this. 338 00:24:12.299 --> 00:24:14.819 This is a comedy take on SF. 339 00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:19.559 So it's, you know, it's showing how silly everything is, but it's still enjoying it. 340 00:24:19.619 --> 00:24:33.359 But they balance the comedy very well because the problem with, and Douglas Adams talked about this with this time with Doctor Who, he said, the problem with injecting humour into a drama series is people start taking as an opportunity to do silly voices and silly walks. 341 00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:36.180 And if you do that, you undermine the drama. 342 00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:45.599 Now, in the Avengers, there is comedy in there, but Steed and Mrs. Peel, while they may joke about the threat, they never treat the threat as a joke. 343 00:24:45.660 --> 00:24:47.700 It's a very difficult thing to get right. 344 00:24:47.819 --> 00:24:50.039 And you can see from the Avengers film. 345 00:24:50.099 --> 00:24:53.099 I mean, they never seem, particularly Mrs. Peel. 346 00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:56.039 They never seem like they're really in danger. 347 00:24:56.099 --> 00:24:57.119 Do you know what I mean? 348 00:24:57.299 --> 00:25:01.259 Mrs. Peel just looks like she could walk out of the frame and she'd be fine. 349 00:25:01.319 --> 00:25:03.660 What about the fight scene when she's taken over? 350 00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:04.619 They're not stressed by it. 351 00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:05.400 Do you know what I mean? 352 00:25:05.460 --> 00:25:07.019 They never distressed or upset, I think. 353 00:25:07.140 --> 00:25:09.539 Yeah, except in the end. 354 00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:17.579 But the threat, you know, we were complaining about the violence in Seeds of Doom, but this is actually vastly more violent than that. 355 00:25:17.700 --> 00:25:26.339 So you get, you get the delivery man who goes to investigate Sir Lyle, you know, what are we doing with all of these, the fertiliser? 356 00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:26.880 Yeah, yeah. 357 00:25:26.940 --> 00:25:34.920 And then he's hypnotised by the plant and so he stands still while Lennox, the chauffeur, just shoots him full blank in the chest or whatever. 358 00:25:34.980 --> 00:25:47.579 You get an utterly horrifying scene, which is the hypnotised Laura is working in Sir Lyle's estate. 359 00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:59.220 Alan goes to get her, and he calls out to her, and she ignores him because she's hypnotised, and so he climbs up the fence and he's electrocuted to death, and she, you know, barely bats an island. 360 00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:01.140 She's kind of wand so chilly to see what's happened. 361 00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:03.359 And it's beautifully directed as well. 362 00:26:03.420 --> 00:26:05.460 Like the, it's so well shot. 363 00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:11.519 And so there is, you know, there's there's genuine horror in it in this darker than Doctor Who. 364 00:26:11.579 --> 00:26:16.619 The aforementioned moment where Mrs. Peel shoots the chauffeur point blank with a shotgun. 365 00:26:16.680 --> 00:26:29.460 I think we learn that the entire population of Surrey Green and all of the scientists, including Laura, have all been eaten by the monster by the time Steve and Mrs. Peel arrive. they're famous for that, aren't they? 366 00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:32.339 They often arrive after they've heard those. 367 00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:33.240 Yeah, yeah, yes, yes. 368 00:26:33.299 --> 00:26:38.460 Somebody once said, I would hate to be an expert in anything if Steve and Mrs. Peel turned up because I'd be dead by this. 369 00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:51.599 Yeah, there was a, there was a quote that was used in an ad for the Avengers, which then made it into one of the colour episodes where they arrive on a scene and Mrs. Peel says, where's the body and sees his, what body? 370 00:26:51.720 --> 00:26:53.880 And Mrs. Peel says, there's always a bottle. 371 00:26:54.599 --> 00:27:00.240 Something I found very interesting about that confrontation scene when it starts. 372 00:27:00.299 --> 00:27:12.119 And I hadn't noticed it until this time around is, they're able to realise that something's gone wrong by going to the pub and the only person left there is the guy with the hearing aid because spoiler alert, the hearing aid blocks the hypnotic signal. 373 00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:15.599 Even if you don't need it because Stephen Mrs. Peel both put one on. 374 00:27:15.660 --> 00:27:19.740 As they make their way to the house, there's clothes strewn around everywhere. 375 00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:22.319 And thus the implication, which I never got before. 376 00:27:22.380 --> 00:27:28.980 The creature makes people peel themselves, like we would peel a banana. 377 00:27:29.099 --> 00:27:33.480 Don't you think it just eats them whole and then spits out the clothes? 378 00:27:33.539 --> 00:27:35.160 Well, no, because Mad a monster? 379 00:27:35.220 --> 00:27:38.279 Because there's no indication that it's made it as far as the pub. 380 00:27:38.339 --> 00:27:40.619 It's still sitting on top of the house like the crinoid dips. 381 00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:45.059 So it's drawn the people to it and as they've come along, they're peeling themselves. 382 00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:46.079 They're removing their clothes. 383 00:27:46.079 --> 00:27:55.319 And that's how we find the Avengers breaks one of their own rules because one of the rules that Brian Clemens institutes with the film seasons of the Avengers is that no women are to be killed. 384 00:27:55.380 --> 00:27:56.880 Laura cops it. 385 00:27:56.880 --> 00:28:00.779 Laura cops, and we know that because Emma finds her shoe. 386 00:28:00.839 --> 00:28:07.019 And it's one of the few times that we see Emma Peel, because Emma Peel, one of her character traits says she's unflappable. 387 00:28:07.079 --> 00:28:09.839 She's not emotionless, but she isn't affected. 388 00:28:09.900 --> 00:28:12.180 And she picks up the shoe. 389 00:28:12.180 --> 00:28:17.519 And the look on Diana Riggs's face, there is pain there, you know, because she's her old friend. 390 00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:17.940 Exactly. 391 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:19.319 She's an old friend. 392 00:28:19.380 --> 00:28:26.099 Not only is she an old friend, but 1st of all, her fiance has reported her missing and then he's gone missing. 393 00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:28.440 And yeah, she comes to the realisation of what has happened. 394 00:28:28.500 --> 00:28:36.539 And it's a small moment, but it helps offset this sort of unflappable nature of the character. 395 00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:38.460 There's fabulous violence at the end. 396 00:28:38.519 --> 00:28:39.000 Yes. 397 00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:39.960 Can we have the end? 398 00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:49.319 Another thing that it shares with Seeds of Doom is, of course, it ends up in a house that's covered by a giant many tentacled monster, and we don't see it. 399 00:28:49.380 --> 00:28:53.940 There's no sort of crummy model work or anything like that. 400 00:28:54.000 --> 00:29:12.660 So there's just sort of shapes moving outside the house and we see the occasional tentacle and stuff and a tentacle comes and drags off Lennox's body after Mrs. Peel shoots him and poor old lesbian botanist Miss Sheldon gets sort of hauled off and they just managed to rescue her. 401 00:29:12.779 --> 00:29:18.900 But one of the tendrils knocks the of the hearing aid out of Mrs. Peel's ear. 402 00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:19.380 Yes. 403 00:29:19.380 --> 00:29:27.180 And so she's possessed by the plant and she starts pouring on the floor, all of the, um, the never-ending buckler. 404 00:29:27.180 --> 00:29:33.539 Fertiliser, they've, not fertiliser. a bottle of herbicide that they've brought to kill the creature. 405 00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:38.819 And so we have a wonderful fight sequence between Mrs. Peel. 406 00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:41.339 I'm resolved I wasn't going to call her Emma this story. 407 00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:45.000 Mrs. Bell and Steed, where they're stunt doubles. 408 00:29:45.059 --> 00:29:47.940 Like we thought we were hard done by when we... 409 00:29:47.940 --> 00:29:48.599 And you know what? 410 00:29:49.619 --> 00:29:53.880 Often, often Sid Child, who is a pretty convincing double for Diana Rigg would do the stunts. 411 00:29:53.940 --> 00:29:56.579 I don't think that's Sid Child doing the fight. 412 00:29:56.640 --> 00:30:02.700 I think it's a chap, you know, it's it's like it's like Stuart fell doubling for Katie Manning. 413 00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:06.660 Katie Manning suddenly has the shoulders of a bricklayer. 414 00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:13.140 Yeah, and there's a terrible, like, like they don't attempt to give the stunt double a steed wig either, do they? 415 00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:18.000 No, well, the thing is, Rocky Taylor had similar hair to Patrick McNee anyway. 416 00:30:18.059 --> 00:30:24.480 It didn't quite have the wave, and it's not until the end of the colour season that they realise they actually have to style it in a similar way. 417 00:30:25.259 --> 00:30:27.480 I mean, you know, it's the whole thing. 418 00:30:27.480 --> 00:30:29.880 I remember you watching on a screen the size of your iPhone. 419 00:30:29.940 --> 00:30:31.500 Yeah, that's true. 420 00:30:31.559 --> 00:30:31.920 It was. 421 00:30:31.980 --> 00:30:32.880 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 422 00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:34.440 And the different lines as well, yeah. 423 00:30:34.500 --> 00:30:36.480 And I think the film is kinder to it now. 424 00:30:36.539 --> 00:30:37.259 Do you know what I mean? 425 00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:39.180 Because now we can see on our big screen sometimes. 426 00:30:39.299 --> 00:30:43.259 And yeah, it's been digitally rescanned and restored. 427 00:30:43.259 --> 00:30:45.660 We talk about the lighting. like the score of this as well. 428 00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:47.279 Yeah, talk about the way it's lit. 429 00:30:47.339 --> 00:30:52.200 And yeah, well, the lighting when the creature is attacking becomes darker and darker and darker. 430 00:30:52.259 --> 00:30:53.700 We don't see that many tendrils. 431 00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:56.339 It's done with the lighting and it's done with sound design. 432 00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:58.680 But that fight is brutal. 433 00:30:58.740 --> 00:31:00.000 And I think... 434 00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:01.200 It's great, isn't it? 435 00:31:01.259 --> 00:31:07.799 There have been very few times where the 2 main characters in the Avengers have had to fight one another. 436 00:31:07.859 --> 00:31:12.000 I can think of a couple of examples in the honour Blackman era. 437 00:31:12.059 --> 00:31:15.119 There are 2 times where Kathy has to subdue Steed. 438 00:31:15.180 --> 00:31:22.980 And even then she only does it with the strictly limited necessary amount of force to do so. 439 00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:25.500 Whereas this, because Emma's possessed. 440 00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:28.319 It just keeps going and going and going. 441 00:31:28.380 --> 00:31:35.279 You know, it's not a couple of knocks and she's out, and eventually they practically have to give each other concussions to knock around. 442 00:31:35.400 --> 00:31:36.359 The expression helped. 443 00:31:36.359 --> 00:31:38.460 Well, he... 444 00:31:38.519 --> 00:31:39.420 He headbutts are. 445 00:31:39.480 --> 00:31:41.519 Yeah. 446 00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:42.420 It's a liveable kiss. 447 00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:46.440 Well, she is a Liverpool less, like... 448 00:31:46.440 --> 00:31:47.759 Luckily, it's likely... 449 00:31:47.819 --> 00:31:48.839 Yeah, yeah, he is. 450 00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:52.259 Once she's unconscious and this is horrifying. 451 00:31:52.380 --> 00:31:56.220 I watched this twice and I didn't properly notice it the 1st time I might have been tired. 452 00:31:56.279 --> 00:32:02.039 But then he just liberally pores herbicide all over her and leaves her for the tentacle. 453 00:32:02.099 --> 00:32:06.180 And she's dragged off under the beast. 454 00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:10.799 And it is a bit confusing because she's then in the corridor without her coat far away. 455 00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:15.420 So there's one of 2 things that have happened and there's still debate amongst the fandom. 456 00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:23.759 Apparently, the original intent in the script was that it would be revealed as she was dragging out that Steve had actually put the coat on one of the mannequins in order to fool the creature. 457 00:32:23.819 --> 00:32:25.619 But it doesn't come across on screen. 458 00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:28.680 So the implication on screen... 459 00:32:28.740 --> 00:32:31.740 The implication on the screen is that the creatures spatter out afterwards. 460 00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:34.740 Either way, you know, it's a very nail biting ending. 461 00:32:34.859 --> 00:32:36.599 It's a bit brutal though. 462 00:32:36.660 --> 00:32:42.359 Yeah, it is Mrs. Pale, you know, and then 5 minutes later they're on a hay rick, you know, flirting again. 463 00:32:42.420 --> 00:32:45.839 And of course, don't forget, Steed is a herbicidal. 464 00:32:45.900 --> 00:32:46.559 Yeah, brilliant. 465 00:32:46.619 --> 00:32:55.019 And yeah, we then do get what is known as the tag scene, which comes in in the film series. 466 00:32:55.079 --> 00:33:01.859 So in this series for the tag scene, as always, they're making a getaway on some related vehicle in series 5 and six. 467 00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:05.579 It's sort of a witty commentary on the story that's come before. 468 00:33:05.700 --> 00:33:10.859 Yeah, so they're making their getaway on a hay bale and have a chat about going to a horticultural centre. 469 00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:12.180 But no creepers, please. 470 00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:30.960 It's the stylistic performances and we can be so banal, but it's the way that Rig and McNee play off each other that feels to me as the closest to seeds of doom, even over and above the storylines and similarities. 471 00:33:31.019 --> 00:33:36.299 It's the camaraderie between Regan and McNee are very much Liz and Tom. 472 00:33:36.359 --> 00:33:38.880 And I, we've mentioned before. 473 00:33:38.940 --> 00:33:44.339 Was it Hinchcliffe who said he wanted an Avengers style, but... between the leagues. 474 00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:45.539 I think he certainly gets it. 475 00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:52.740 I actually, even at the time thinking, without using the words, but as a doctor and Sarah, intimate. 476 00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:55.380 Oh, you see, I don't think so at all. 477 00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:56.700 And in fact, I... 478 00:33:56.819 --> 00:33:57.420 No. 479 00:33:57.480 --> 00:34:03.180 In fact, Tom is really cold all the way through, Seeds of Doom, and really angry and dismissive. 480 00:34:03.180 --> 00:34:08.039 And he's... short with Sarah, though, a few times. 481 00:34:08.099 --> 00:34:09.960 And so the kind of warmth. 482 00:34:10.019 --> 00:34:10.559 Yeah, yeah. 483 00:34:10.619 --> 00:34:12.420 Don't relationships sometimes go that way? 484 00:34:12.659 --> 00:34:14.219 That's it. 485 00:34:14.280 --> 00:34:16.679 Because you know where that was coming from in Seeds of Doom, though. 486 00:34:16.739 --> 00:34:24.300 But that's because both he and Dougie Canfield were so unhappy with the script, apparently. that they said, you know, we've got to ramp it up somehow. 487 00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:33.300 He's kind of unpleasant to her, I think, whereas Steed, like just the warm from the way they dig at each other, Steve, and Mrs. Peel is wonderful. 488 00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:35.280 Like she mocks him, he mocks her. 489 00:34:35.340 --> 00:34:39.599 We didn't even mention the cactus, you know, we're almost out of time. 490 00:34:39.659 --> 00:34:42.719 So I think that's the last thing we're going to talk about. 491 00:34:42.780 --> 00:34:43.920 There's a dildo in the event. 492 00:34:43.980 --> 00:34:50.699 There is this very phallically shaped cactus that's put under Steve... not the same cactus under the settee. 493 00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:51.780 No, indeed. 494 00:34:51.840 --> 00:34:58.019 It's foot under steed seat, and he notices it and takes it back to Emma, who says that it is poisonous or venomous. would have killed him. 495 00:34:58.079 --> 00:35:00.000 And then it rolls under the settee. 496 00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:05.219 And this is a sign of how dynamic things are on the Avengers, even though it was filmed, they had the same kind of script turnaround. 497 00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:18.480 I am convinced that there was a scene in there where someone attacks them in Steed's flat and falls on the cactus and that was dropped, but we still have this, we have a vestigial phallic cactus in the event. 498 00:35:18.539 --> 00:35:19.980 Is that the name of this episode? 499 00:35:20.099 --> 00:35:22.679 That's just the Avengers to a team. handing it to each other. 500 00:35:22.739 --> 00:35:24.539 Yeah, it's delightful. 501 00:35:24.780 --> 00:35:27.780 Oh, I think I'm going to go back and watch the whole thing. 502 00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:30.239 What was that other show we did the podcast when I can't remember? 503 00:35:30.300 --> 00:35:31.320 No idea. 504 00:35:35.639 --> 00:35:39.360 Well, that's definitely all the time we have for the Avengers this week. 505 00:35:39.420 --> 00:35:43.619 Don't worry, we will be back on Doctor Who next week with The Mask of Mad Dragra. 506 00:35:43.679 --> 00:35:45.960 Nathan and I will be back and Todd will be joining us. 507 00:35:46.019 --> 00:35:49.559 Richard, you'll join us again. climbing up into that octahedron loading up there. 508 00:35:49.619 --> 00:35:50.880 I remember to wear long trousers. 509 00:35:50.940 --> 00:35:53.639 Yes, you will be back for Horror of Fangs Rock. 510 00:35:53.699 --> 00:35:54.420 Definite threat. 511 00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:55.019 Season 15. 512 00:35:55.260 --> 00:35:56.760 Do please join us. 513 00:35:56.820 --> 00:36:02.699 Find us online with Flightthrough Entires.com, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes, FTE podcast on Twitter. 514 00:36:02.760 --> 00:36:08.699 And don't forget, we also have our 2nd podcast, James Bond commentary is on Bond Finger up and running. 515 00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:15.360 So that's bondfinger.com or at bondfingercast on Twitter, bondfinger on Facebook as well. 516 00:36:15.420 --> 00:36:20.519 Until then, thank you very much for listening, and may all your champagne be perfectly chilled. 517 00:36:20.579 --> 00:36:21.539 I'm Brendan. 518 00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:22.019 Thank you very much. 519 00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:23.880 Good night, Chin Chin. 520 00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:30.420 Backwards, flat your entirety with Nathan Boffinley, Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone. 521 00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:34.980 This episode, sexiest exposition trope, was recording on July the 11th. 522 00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:37.619 The next episode will be released on September 13th. 523 00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:43.079 You can find much the same excitement as this story in our new bomb finger commentary on from Russia with love. 524 00:36:43.139 --> 00:36:45.119 Although probably not a green man. 525 00:36:51.239 --> 00:36:57.780 Hello and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast, which this week is talking about the Avengers. 526 00:36:58.380 --> 00:37:00.599 I'll have the fan fan there. 527 00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:03.420 I'm Brendan.