WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:18:42 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.860 What am I saying at the beginning of this one? 2 00:00:01.919 --> 00:00:03.839 What am I saying on any of this? 3 00:00:03.960 --> 00:00:04.440 You're not. 4 00:00:04.500 --> 00:00:06.480 There's a scrolling thing that just comes down. 5 00:00:06.540 --> 00:00:09.539 People have to actually listen to that. 6 00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:50.159 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast coming to you live through the Amplified Panatropic Computer Net, which, as we all know, is made of a series of tubes and cats. 7 00:00:50.219 --> 00:00:50.759 I'm Brendan. 8 00:00:50.820 --> 00:00:51.780 I'm Nathan. 9 00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:56.159 And I'm Todd, and we are here today to discuss the deadly assassin. 10 00:01:02.700 --> 00:01:05.700 What other kind of bloody assassin is there? 11 00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:07.560 I hate that Titan. 12 00:01:07.620 --> 00:01:10.140 There's a deadliest asset, or there's a crap one. 13 00:01:10.260 --> 00:01:11.519 Correct, Brendan. 14 00:01:11.579 --> 00:01:17.939 I think pop homes in an interview later did actually say that there are incompetent assassins. 15 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:20.700 Yeah, I mean, it's not quite a tortology. 16 00:01:20.819 --> 00:01:23.280 It is better than the dangerous assassin. 17 00:01:23.340 --> 00:01:24.719 Yeah, which was the working title. 18 00:01:25.079 --> 00:01:30.780 I don't care. beginning of my irritation with many aspects of this story. 19 00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:33.120 And thankfully, it's mine. 20 00:01:33.180 --> 00:01:37.019 I want to start off with one of the criticisms that's been levelled at this story. 21 00:01:37.079 --> 00:01:41.040 For those of you who haven't seen the deadly assassin, probably a good idea for you to watch at first. 22 00:01:41.099 --> 00:01:47.819 So we have the 1st story completely set on the Planet of the Time Lords, which we now know is Galafre. 23 00:01:47.879 --> 00:01:52.739 We had, of course, previously seen the Planet of the Time Lords in the War Games. 24 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:57.299 Last episode of the War Games, and also intermittently in the 3 doctors. 25 00:01:57.359 --> 00:02:00.420 But this is the 1st story entirely set there. 26 00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:06.420 Now, what a lot of fans say about this story is that it changes what we know about the time lords. 27 00:02:06.840 --> 00:02:18.479 It presents them as a very insular, very stagnated society, sort of there's lots of ornate people in robes flowing about and being quite ineffectual. 28 00:02:18.539 --> 00:02:32.460 Really, it was 1st posited in an issue of the celestial toy room in an article by then President Jan Vincent Rudsky, who also appears on the DVD for the deadly assassin on the making of, giving his reaction to the story. 29 00:02:32.520 --> 00:02:36.659 Personally, I don't see a problem with presenting the Time Lords in this way. 30 00:02:36.719 --> 00:02:49.500 Because what we have been previously told about the time lords and what is even further defined here is that the time lords are an insular isolationist society. 31 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:57.900 And remember, part of the reason that the doctor was an outcast is because he went out into the universe, which they're not meant to be allowed to do. 32 00:02:57.960 --> 00:03:00.360 And the doctors already said is when he was Patrick Trout. 33 00:03:00.419 --> 00:03:02.159 You know, he was quite bored by the time lords. 34 00:03:02.219 --> 00:03:07.259 And a homogeneous isolationist culture would stagnate. 35 00:03:07.319 --> 00:03:17.520 I think that homes more than anyone else defines the doctor against the forces of rules and bureaucracy and staleness, you know, as early as the crotons. 36 00:03:17.580 --> 00:03:20.460 The crotons have the procedure that has to be obeyed. 37 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:24.780 And I think it's homes that pins that down as the thing that the doctor is opposed to. 38 00:03:24.840 --> 00:03:33.300 And so naturally when he gets his go at creating the time lords, they're hide bound and stuffy and tied down by procedure. 39 00:03:33.360 --> 00:03:49.199 So, I guess it's natural that that's his take on the time lords rather than, you know, the game show hosts of the 3 doctors or the or the incredibly terrifying and powerful, you know, Terence Dix version of the uh, of the time lords in in the war games. 40 00:03:49.259 --> 00:03:50.280 Yeah, yeah. 41 00:03:50.340 --> 00:03:53.520 I don't think it's irreconcilable with either of those 2 examples. 42 00:03:53.580 --> 00:03:57.780 And I think Robert Holmes actually takes a little bit of care with that. 43 00:03:57.840 --> 00:04:04.500 You know, because when we've seen the time lords before, We've just sort of briefly flashed to their planet and just seen a little bit of it. 44 00:04:04.620 --> 00:04:21.600 And it's kind of like when you get a program like, say, House of Cards or the West Wing, when you see President Bartlett delivering a speech, it's very different to when he's in the Oval Office, discussing something with a member of his staff. 45 00:04:21.660 --> 00:04:26.100 You know, what we're seeing in this story is behind the scenes of the time lords. 46 00:04:26.459 --> 00:04:29.519 And that's something I quite like about it. 47 00:04:29.579 --> 00:04:37.860 But I just wanted to get that out of the way 1st because it's one of the big talking points about this story and we'll certainly come back to it over the course of our podcast today. 48 00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:44.639 In fact, nearly every, I think, modern assessment of this story is a reaction to the review that you mentioned. 49 00:04:44.759 --> 00:04:45.540 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 50 00:04:45.600 --> 00:05:00.300 Because review goes into sort of integrate detail about the fact that there's been all of this complicated information given over the course of the program about the time laws, and this just flagrantly contradicts it, and where is the magic of Doctor Who? 51 00:05:00.360 --> 00:05:09.959 If you haven't read this review, I couldn't find the text online, but I did find a YouTube video of a CG character saying the text. 52 00:05:10.019 --> 00:05:16.980 So I'll put a link in the show notes and it's in license denied, which was a collection of fan writing that Paul Cornell put together. 53 00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:24.060 And no one has been very interested in presenting a coherent picture of the time lords, and that's not what Doctor Who does. 54 00:05:24.120 --> 00:05:28.259 I mean, you kind of think they've not been watching the same program. 55 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:33.180 There's no coherent picture of the Daleks or the Cybermen or Units or really anything at all. 56 00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:35.759 The show, it's not Star Trek. 57 00:05:35.819 --> 00:05:36.540 Do you know what I mean? 58 00:05:36.600 --> 00:05:37.379 Yeah, yeah. 59 00:05:37.379 --> 00:05:42.660 It's Doctor Who. and so things just change from production team to reaction. 60 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:43.079 Exactly. 61 00:05:43.139 --> 00:05:45.480 You see, I don't have a love for this. 62 00:05:45.540 --> 00:05:49.500 And it's because I don't have a connection to it. 63 00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:51.120 It was not part of my childhood. 64 00:05:51.180 --> 00:05:52.860 We didn't get to see this. 65 00:05:52.920 --> 00:05:58.019 And so my galafre is the galafre from Invasion of Time. 66 00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:00.000 That's... 67 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:01.680 That's my barusa. 68 00:06:01.740 --> 00:06:03.120 That's my Castellan. 69 00:06:03.180 --> 00:06:04.680 That's my gallifrate. 70 00:06:04.740 --> 00:06:05.339 That's my set. 71 00:06:05.459 --> 00:06:10.920 So when I come to this, I come to it with that baggage and that look to it. 72 00:06:10.980 --> 00:06:17.040 So I don't necessarily warm to a lot of what is presented, and how it's presented here. 73 00:06:17.100 --> 00:06:19.800 I don't have a problem with defining of the time mods and all that. 74 00:06:19.860 --> 00:06:26.160 It's more to do with what's the characters and how they're played and that sort of thing. 75 00:06:26.220 --> 00:06:28.439 It's a weird experience, isn't it? 76 00:06:28.500 --> 00:06:29.579 I had exactly the same experience. 77 00:06:29.639 --> 00:06:32.699 So we would go straight from the hand of fear to face of evil. 78 00:06:32.819 --> 00:06:34.379 And it still works. 79 00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:43.319 And then when we came a year later to the invasion of time, were you aware, Todd, that it was like a sequel to an adventure that we hadn't seen at the time? 80 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:45.720 I didn't know that there was this other thing. 81 00:06:45.779 --> 00:06:48.540 It never existed, like it just was. 82 00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:51.180 I didn't know that there was this story in there. 83 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:55.439 Because when you watch it now, of course, it's full of references, isn't it? 84 00:06:55.500 --> 00:06:56.639 To the deadly assassin. 85 00:06:56.699 --> 00:07:07.079 If we look at the plot, it's got a very interesting opening with the doctor receiving the vision, you know, of being the assassin. 86 00:07:07.139 --> 00:07:10.199 That is very effective and very striking. 87 00:07:10.259 --> 00:07:16.019 And, of course, people kind of reference the Manchurian candidate, and certainly, there was an influence there in a way. 88 00:07:16.079 --> 00:07:17.639 It hasn't been done in Doctor Who before. 89 00:07:17.699 --> 00:07:18.839 So I give it those points. 90 00:07:19.379 --> 00:07:22.680 So what was the call home that he received at the end of hand of fear? 91 00:07:23.339 --> 00:07:25.980 I believe that sent from the master. 92 00:07:26.040 --> 00:07:27.060 Yes, exactly. 93 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:29.279 The master's bringing him there to frame him. 94 00:07:29.339 --> 00:07:29.879 Okay. 95 00:07:29.939 --> 00:07:30.360 Yeah. 96 00:07:30.420 --> 00:07:32.279 So spoiler alert, dear list. 97 00:07:32.339 --> 00:07:33.300 The masters in this one. 98 00:07:33.660 --> 00:07:38.579 You know, it starts and you've got the scrolling text that stars. 99 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:41.160 Star Wars would do year later. 100 00:07:41.220 --> 00:07:44.879 So I have to give them points for that, but I come into this having had the Star Wars experience. 101 00:07:44.939 --> 00:07:48.120 So it's sort of like, well, I've seen that before, right? 102 00:07:48.180 --> 00:07:51.899 So that's the 1st thing that sort of doesn't quite sit the best with me. 103 00:07:51.959 --> 00:07:56.279 And also it's like, what is the background of that shot? 104 00:07:56.339 --> 00:07:59.879 It's a wall with some dry ice over the top of it. 105 00:07:59.939 --> 00:08:02.699 It's, yeah, it's a little bit weird, that shot. 106 00:08:02.759 --> 00:08:06.180 I still like it because it tells you that this story is going to be unusual. 107 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:10.800 And of course, we have, we have no Sarah Jane, Leela hasn't arrived yet. 108 00:08:10.860 --> 00:08:21.180 So there's no, in a way, there's no companion, but in a way, there is, because of course, Philip Hinchcliffe and Robert Holmes didn't really want to do a story without a companion. was Tom's demand. 109 00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:23.100 So Tom demanded this. 110 00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:26.459 And so they decided to do this to prove to him that it couldn't work. 111 00:08:26.519 --> 00:08:27.240 Yeah. 112 00:08:27.300 --> 00:08:29.339 What a great premise for a story. 113 00:08:29.399 --> 00:08:33.539 It's proved to you that it's not going to work by doing a story. doesn't work. 114 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:40.139 But wait, so we could have had 4 more episodes of Sarah Jane Smith. and then gone straight into Leila, possibly. 115 00:08:40.200 --> 00:08:41.879 So that irritates me. 116 00:08:41.940 --> 00:08:44.879 I'm just going to preface it to the listeners. 117 00:08:44.940 --> 00:08:50.759 There's a lot of illogical things that I'm going to say here that irritate me about this story, but it's my personal experience of it. 118 00:08:50.820 --> 00:08:55.440 So I'm just saying there's little things that begin to just etch away at my enjoyment of this. 119 00:08:55.500 --> 00:08:56.519 But please, continue. 120 00:08:57.059 --> 00:09:01.559 I would argue, 1st of all, that there are companions in this story. 121 00:09:01.620 --> 00:09:03.120 They're Spandrel and Engen. 122 00:09:03.179 --> 00:09:06.659 I mean, for God's sake, Engen is practically a Doctor Who companion. 123 00:09:06.720 --> 00:09:08.759 He asks lots of questions like, oh, what's that, doctor? 124 00:09:08.820 --> 00:09:09.899 And how does that work, doctor? 125 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:10.860 And what should I do, doctor? 126 00:09:10.919 --> 00:09:13.919 Engen's the Dottery one that's about to collapse dead. 127 00:09:13.980 --> 00:09:15.120 It's wonderful. 128 00:09:15.179 --> 00:09:16.200 Fantastic. 129 00:09:16.259 --> 00:09:17.820 It's probably my favourite thing in this. 130 00:09:17.940 --> 00:09:19.860 I love how the doctor says goodbye to him. 131 00:09:19.919 --> 00:09:23.759 You know, he says goodbye, doctor, and the doctor's goodbye. 132 00:09:23.820 --> 00:09:26.159 It's so good. 133 00:09:26.220 --> 00:09:29.100 And of course, we've got George Pravta back as spandrel. 134 00:09:29.159 --> 00:09:32.460 He's far, far better in this than he was in the Mutants. 135 00:09:32.519 --> 00:09:35.159 Engen was in The Massacre, can I just say? 136 00:09:35.220 --> 00:09:35.820 Yes. 137 00:09:35.879 --> 00:09:36.539 Yeah, yeah. 138 00:09:36.899 --> 00:09:37.860 He has that going. 139 00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:40.500 Yeah, it was a plot device in the massacre. that's right Okay. 140 00:09:40.559 --> 00:09:42.600 There are positive things. 141 00:09:42.659 --> 00:09:45.000 And there are negative things about spandral. 142 00:09:45.059 --> 00:09:51.840 I love the way spandrels written in terms of he's this policeman, but he's not just gunning for the doctor. 143 00:09:51.899 --> 00:09:54.000 He's willing to listen and investigate. 144 00:09:54.059 --> 00:09:56.519 I do have a problem with the performance. 145 00:09:56.940 --> 00:10:04.860 The performance works in this context, but the way he delivers his lines is like it's a cold read of the script. 146 00:10:04.919 --> 00:10:10.559 I do community theatre, and it's like when you do a cold reader of the play to begin with, like, whatever you're in. 147 00:10:10.620 --> 00:10:14.940 And it's like he's reading it without the commas, without the full stops, without the expression. 148 00:10:15.059 --> 00:10:18.299 He just runs his lines into each other. 149 00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:20.519 And after a while, like, sometimes it works really well. 150 00:10:20.580 --> 00:10:22.139 Like, I really like that. 151 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:26.159 And other times I'm just there going, oh, for God's sake, take a breath. 152 00:10:26.220 --> 00:10:27.000 Take a breath. 153 00:10:27.059 --> 00:10:29.159 No, I want some expression there, please stop. 154 00:10:29.220 --> 00:10:36.120 So, there are parts of this where it just begins to chip away at my enjoyment and just begins to irritate me slightly. 155 00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:37.740 Continue, brilliant. 156 00:10:37.799 --> 00:10:45.179 See, see, I view that performance as being, like, a sort of hard boiled American TV detective, you know, just the facts map kind of thing. 157 00:10:45.240 --> 00:10:47.100 But no, I see where you're coming from with that. 158 00:10:47.159 --> 00:10:54.240 And in quite a bit of his acting, George Proctor can sometimes have a sort of monotone delivery. 159 00:10:54.299 --> 00:10:55.740 But I think he's very good in that. 160 00:10:55.860 --> 00:10:57.120 I'm not saying it's a bad performance. 161 00:10:57.179 --> 00:11:00.480 I'm just saying there's aspects of it that begin to irritate me. 162 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:02.700 So the doctor gets recalled to Gallifrey. 163 00:11:02.820 --> 00:11:06.899 He has this vision of himself killing the president, but he takes it. 164 00:11:08.220 --> 00:11:12.120 From what we can see as the viewer, he fires the gun, the president falls down dead. 165 00:11:12.179 --> 00:11:13.019 Now that's shocking enough. 166 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:21.480 The idea, A, that the doctor would fire a gun because we've just been told 3 stories previously that he may carry a gun, but he wouldn't fire it, and we find that out in the seeds of doom. 167 00:11:21.539 --> 00:11:25.919 So we see the doctor firing a gun, 0 my god, we see him killing someone. 168 00:11:25.980 --> 00:11:26.639 Oh my god. 169 00:11:26.700 --> 00:11:31.259 But then he starts saying, I must get past them and warn the president. 170 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:48.960 So we're like, hold on, what's he, and this is where the Manchurian candidate influence comes in, Manchurian candidate being a novel later, a film, about American soldiers being captured and brainwashed as prisoners of war to then go back to America and assassinate political targets. 171 00:11:49.019 --> 00:11:54.480 Think of that episode where Geordie was brainwashed by the Romulans into killing that guy. 172 00:11:54.539 --> 00:11:55.620 Yes, yes. 173 00:11:55.679 --> 00:11:58.980 I believe that's one of 2 episodes where Geordie wears a beard. 174 00:11:59.100 --> 00:12:09.120 We get lots of faffing about from Tom and getting into robes and whatnot, which Tom loved, of course, because like all classic doctors, he thought about being a priest or a monk at one point. 175 00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:10.980 It was a rule. 176 00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:12.779 Yeah, it was actually a rule. 177 00:12:12.840 --> 00:12:14.159 It was part of the interview. 178 00:12:14.220 --> 00:12:16.019 Did you ever consider being a priest or a monk? 179 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:18.600 Okay, sorry, Richard Griffiths, you can't be Doctor Who. 180 00:12:18.659 --> 00:12:21.659 And then we get characters like Runcible. 181 00:12:21.779 --> 00:12:23.399 Runsable, fatulus. 182 00:12:23.460 --> 00:12:25.019 Who is that? 183 00:12:25.019 --> 00:12:26.039 Has he been in Doctor Who before? 184 00:12:26.100 --> 00:12:28.139 He will be in Doctor Who again? 185 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:28.799 He will be in again. 186 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:29.220 Yeah. 187 00:12:29.220 --> 00:12:30.240 So. 188 00:12:30.299 --> 00:12:31.440 He's the one. 189 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:32.519 He's the reporter. 190 00:12:32.580 --> 00:12:33.360 The newscast. 191 00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:36.539 Okay, so we have the heliotrope of the Patrexes. 192 00:12:36.600 --> 00:12:37.200 So on. 193 00:12:37.500 --> 00:12:39.840 Can I just, I just want to bring up a few things there. 194 00:12:39.899 --> 00:12:40.259 Obviously. 195 00:12:40.379 --> 00:12:48.480 So there's a plot device where we're doing the whole reporter BBC 3 thing that we've seen before, but this time in terms of Gallifrey, because the doctor has got no companion. 196 00:12:48.539 --> 00:12:53.340 And so that we've then got all the different colours of the academies. 197 00:12:53.399 --> 00:12:55.860 I actually think J.K. Rowling must have been watching this. 198 00:12:55.919 --> 00:13:04.019 No, honestly, because then she can go, well, we've got Cithern and obviously Draco Malfoy is going to be goth. 199 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:06.840 We've got the doctor as Harry Potter. 200 00:13:06.899 --> 00:13:11.340 Wait, wait, we've got oh, this one that we must not speak of that's been erased. 201 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:14.519 The master who must be there for Voldemort. 202 00:13:14.580 --> 00:13:15.299 So you know what? 203 00:13:15.419 --> 00:13:21.059 I think Bob Holmes state has may have some sort of, you know, claim claim on the whole thing. 204 00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:22.980 Anyway, it's a bit of a... 205 00:13:22.980 --> 00:13:25.320 If he didn't nick so much for whatever else, anyway. 206 00:13:25.379 --> 00:13:31.919 Now, of course, then, going back to it, the doctor watches runs the ball on the monitor. 207 00:13:31.980 --> 00:13:34.500 Yep. and he's got to get out of the Tartars. 208 00:13:34.559 --> 00:13:38.279 Yes, and okay, Todd, I'm going to just throw to you because I know this is a point. 209 00:13:39.059 --> 00:13:40.860 I loathe this. 210 00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:48.120 I just think it's it's so convenient that for this season we've got a black void at the door so the doctor can hide on one side of the black void. 211 00:13:48.179 --> 00:13:53.460 The guards can come in and then he can sneak across the other side to get out of the actual tartars. 212 00:13:53.519 --> 00:13:54.840 It just irritates me. 213 00:13:54.899 --> 00:13:57.480 It's not logical, but it just irritates me. 214 00:13:57.539 --> 00:13:58.919 I know it has to happen, right? 215 00:13:58.980 --> 00:14:00.179 But it irritates me. 216 00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:02.399 This is gonna be your refrain, this episode. 217 00:14:02.460 --> 00:14:05.639 We can learn a lot about your psychology, I think, probably. 218 00:14:05.700 --> 00:14:08.940 Not only that, but the doctor has a hooker in the TARDIS. 219 00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:10.799 Oh, with an AH, right? 220 00:14:10.860 --> 00:14:11.700 With an AH. 221 00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:12.120 That's correct. 222 00:14:12.179 --> 00:14:13.080 What's an H? 223 00:14:13.139 --> 00:14:14.220 A water pipe. 224 00:14:14.279 --> 00:14:15.000 Oh, yeah, yeah. 225 00:14:15.059 --> 00:14:15.539 Yeah, yeah. 226 00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:17.039 So, yeah, the doctor gets away. 227 00:14:17.100 --> 00:14:22.019 He goes around, he yomps around in the Time Lord robes. 228 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:24.779 He has that wonderful conversation with Ronceble, where it runs Bull, says her. 229 00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:26.279 Weren't you expelled or something? 230 00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:27.000 Some kind of fun. 231 00:14:27.059 --> 00:14:31.379 In fact, Runsable's the only person he really interacts with in the entire story. 232 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:33.720 So it is most not in the entire story. 233 00:14:33.779 --> 00:14:36.240 In this 1st episode. in this 1st episode. 234 00:14:36.299 --> 00:14:42.720 And so it is just basically a chase as Tom sort of, you know, evades everyone and then world building. 235 00:14:42.779 --> 00:14:47.639 So we get to meet all of the main characters and find out what the Time Lords Planet is like. 236 00:14:47.700 --> 00:14:56.340 Yeah, and you get that wonderful line where Commander Hildred reports to Spandrel that the doctor's gotten away and Spandrel sums it up something like, so let me get this straight. 237 00:14:56.399 --> 00:15:04.620 You went into his TARDIS and he managed to slip out without your seeing him, and then you only trapped him in a building with 50 floors. 238 00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:05.879 Excellent Mildred. 239 00:15:05.940 --> 00:15:07.259 I think you are trying to confuse him. 240 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:10.980 He's really mean to Hillred all the way through. 241 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:14.519 But he's deservedly so because Hildred's inept. 242 00:15:14.580 --> 00:15:19.019 He's such a wet fish and quite frankly, I did not cry when he got turned into a toy at the end. 243 00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:23.700 Again, Kildred is not my commander in California. 244 00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:26.580 Andred, who I think is who I adore, right? 245 00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:29.820 This castalan is not my castan, although I really love him. 246 00:15:29.879 --> 00:15:33.299 I like Mr. Slime in Invasion of Time. 247 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:37.440 And of course, there's another character that occurs in both of these stories. 248 00:15:37.500 --> 00:15:38.460 And that's Barusa. 249 00:15:38.580 --> 00:15:39.120 Barusa. 250 00:15:39.179 --> 00:15:40.980 I really like the barusa in the story. 251 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:45.480 And of course, his 1st appearance, he just utterly destroys Runcible. 252 00:15:45.539 --> 00:15:48.539 Like, you didn't listen to me at school. 253 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:49.559 I talk to you now? 254 00:15:49.620 --> 00:15:50.279 That's terrific. 255 00:15:50.340 --> 00:15:52.500 It's the dream of every teacher to say that to a student. 256 00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:55.259 Can I just say, the performance is great. 257 00:15:55.320 --> 00:15:56.340 The character is great. 258 00:15:56.399 --> 00:16:01.740 I like the 2nd barusa because that was my barusa as a kid. completely understand. 259 00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:09.419 The other problem I have with it is I kind of think sometimes I go through casting different shows in Doctor Who, who would I cast in my life? 260 00:16:09.480 --> 00:16:10.919 Who would I be cast as? 261 00:16:10.980 --> 00:16:19.379 And I kind of look at his performance and the way he talks and I just kind of think, I can't watch myself in a performance and that's who I see. 262 00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:20.399 Oh, yeah. 263 00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:23.159 And so I just have this sort of, I can't watch him. 264 00:16:23.220 --> 00:16:24.059 I just can't watch him. 265 00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:28.919 It's just too sort of like, is this how I appear when I'm in class or whatever like that? 266 00:16:28.980 --> 00:16:32.700 So that's my slight irritation with that character. 267 00:16:32.759 --> 00:16:34.919 And it's not logical, it just is. 268 00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:42.720 Do you wear the eye makeup in class that the Lippy and I make up that the time lords are, for some reason, affecting in this story? 269 00:16:42.779 --> 00:16:45.299 Dear listener, I just walked into that. 270 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:48.840 There's a reason why I have to have a break every season. 271 00:16:49.500 --> 00:16:51.299 Why do they do that? 272 00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:52.860 Why do they have the makeup? 273 00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:56.399 And why didn't they put Timothy Dalton in that makeup in the end of time? 274 00:16:56.460 --> 00:16:57.659 That would have been great. 275 00:16:57.720 --> 00:16:58.919 It slightly silvery, isn't it? 276 00:16:58.980 --> 00:16:59.460 Yeah, yeah. 277 00:16:59.460 --> 00:17:02.220 Talk amongst yourselves. thinking of Timothy Dalton. 278 00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:05.640 Look, it's a good I think he's a good barusa. 279 00:17:05.700 --> 00:17:08.700 And it's another good aspect to the story. 280 00:17:08.819 --> 00:17:09.900 Of the main cast. 281 00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:11.220 I dont think there's a weak performance. 282 00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:21.480 I think Peter Pratt, when he appears with the master, is really up against it, because he's got to talk through that mask, but I think he's got a wonderful voice, and he gets as much expression into the mask and moving it as much as he can. 283 00:17:21.539 --> 00:17:31.680 But we're at the end of episode one now, and the cliffhanger is also like the 3rd scene of the episode, which kind of breaks the Doctor Who format. 284 00:17:31.740 --> 00:17:33.779 And we see the doctor gun down the president. 285 00:17:33.900 --> 00:17:39.000 It's less of a cliffhanger of how is the doctor going to get out of this one. 286 00:17:39.059 --> 00:17:40.019 I'm more of a cliffhanger. 287 00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:40.740 What did I just see? 288 00:17:40.740 --> 00:17:41.460 What did I just happened? 289 00:17:41.579 --> 00:17:45.420 Now, in my opinion, the story begins to go downhill from here. 290 00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:47.160 They cheat. 291 00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:49.559 The reprise cheats outrageous. 292 00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:51.420 The reprise cheats outrageously. 293 00:17:51.480 --> 00:17:53.460 The doctor then reveals. 294 00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:55.440 They insert a scene. 295 00:17:55.500 --> 00:18:00.539 So you actually have someone pulling a gun in the crowd and then the doctor shoots. 296 00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:03.119 And so now we know the only reason why... 297 00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:03.839 Have you actually seen that? 298 00:18:03.900 --> 00:18:04.980 Oh, okay. 299 00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:06.539 I'd never, I'd never noticed seeing that. 300 00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:09.660 Why would you logically put yourself in that position? 301 00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:13.380 I'm going to run ahead of all the guards and go up there and pull out this gun, you know. 302 00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:17.460 Why not stay in the crowd and say, he's got a gun. 303 00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:18.839 It just irritates me. 304 00:18:18.900 --> 00:18:20.160 I mean, it wouldn't have a story. 305 00:18:20.339 --> 00:18:23.880 Not only that, but a few minutes later, you know what? 306 00:18:23.940 --> 00:18:24.240 Great. 307 00:18:24.299 --> 00:18:25.559 We got Bernard Horsefallback. 308 00:18:25.619 --> 00:18:28.500 Longtime collaborator with director David Maloney. 309 00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:33.839 Bernard Horsfall, or British Jack Thompson, if you prefer, as Chancellor Goth. 310 00:18:33.900 --> 00:18:37.799 And got says, the president died without naming his successor. 311 00:18:37.859 --> 00:18:40.500 We must have an election within 48 hours. 312 00:18:40.740 --> 00:18:53.400 And it just leads me to think, A, if you've got a president, he should probably, when he retires, be replaced by an elected official rather than then his own successor. 313 00:18:53.519 --> 00:19:00.539 Secondly, okay, what happens after 48 hours if you haven't had an election? 314 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:05.819 And he starts going on about, oh, you know, other races will be watching and will be weak. 315 00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:06.480 It's like, really? 316 00:19:06.539 --> 00:19:07.019 Who's watching? 317 00:19:07.980 --> 00:19:19.740 I don't understand, you know, we've had this big thing about your isolationists and you don't interfere with other people and you've got this massive shield around your planet and no one can get in and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 318 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:22.319 But your president is killed and it's okay. 319 00:19:22.380 --> 00:19:25.740 You're not prepared for that because you're this isolationist ideal society. 320 00:19:25.799 --> 00:19:26.579 Okay, fine. 321 00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:29.460 But you don't have any kind of procedure for that. 322 00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:36.779 That involves catching the assassin and giving him a trial before electing... 323 00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:42.119 And why why do you have to give the assassin a trial before you elect the president anyway? 324 00:19:42.180 --> 00:19:48.000 Oh, with that, I mean, that's an objection that gets made, isn't it, to Goth and we find out the reason? 325 00:19:48.059 --> 00:19:49.740 Yeah, isn't a political reason? 326 00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:53.220 It's because he wants to get the doctor out of the way and that's the whole purpose of the assassination. 327 00:19:53.279 --> 00:20:00.180 But he seems to have an argument in law because Barusa and Spandrel kind of accept it and realise they've only got 48 hours. 328 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:04.019 No, no, no, but it isn't, it's explicitly a political decision from Goth. 329 00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:04.980 It's not a legal decision. 330 00:20:05.099 --> 00:20:06.720 It doesn't have to kill it. 331 00:20:06.779 --> 00:20:08.400 He has law on his side. 332 00:20:08.460 --> 00:20:10.319 Otherwise he'd be challenged on it. 333 00:20:10.380 --> 00:20:20.160 Then we get the whole trial scene, which, to be fair, it's made kind of interesting by the fact that Tom Baker is drawing the yes minister titles of all the witnesses in the box. 334 00:20:20.279 --> 00:20:21.599 It's really funny though. 335 00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:26.220 Yeah, it's funny because you've got Runcible, and you've got that old guy with the hip. 336 00:20:26.220 --> 00:20:27.059 With the dicky hip. 337 00:20:27.059 --> 00:20:27.960 Yeah, yeah. 338 00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:30.779 That's actually that's quite fun, homesy and staff. 339 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:39.900 You know, I think it is different, Doctor Who, and I think I see it in retrospect in a lot of movies from the 90s onwards. 340 00:20:39.960 --> 00:20:50.460 Like having that whole timelap sequence with them all presenting, you know, but I will criticise it in the fact that, oh, let's just have it in my little room in my little office, basically. 341 00:20:50.519 --> 00:20:58.619 And that's one of the things I have a problem with this, is that we've got the little tiny octagonal, or whatever shape set it is for spandrels thing. 342 00:20:58.680 --> 00:21:03.839 And then we've got his little office and then I really don't like the Panopticon. very, very narrow and small. 343 00:21:03.900 --> 00:21:05.880 I never get a sense of the space. 344 00:21:05.940 --> 00:21:08.880 And for me, you do get one shot, one white shot. 345 00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:11.579 Yeah, with that glass... 346 00:21:11.640 --> 00:21:15.599 Yeah, but and the duplicated extras who wanted to be paid more for being... 347 00:21:15.660 --> 00:21:18.839 However, I just find the whole thing quite cramped. 348 00:21:18.900 --> 00:21:27.180 And for me, for what I want a galafray to be, I wanted it to be big an expansionist and I always felt that in the invasion a time set. 349 00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:30.059 It's actually a much wider and widthier set. 350 00:21:30.059 --> 00:21:36.359 And so I'm comparing it to that, which is illogical, but I wanted more from what these sets are giving. 351 00:21:36.420 --> 00:21:42.839 I mean, the whole thing is kind of modelled after, you know, an Oxbridge college or the Vatican or something. 352 00:21:42.900 --> 00:21:51.900 And so it needs to look dark and Gothic, and I think it does a pretty remarkable job doing that with just plastic walls, green plastic walls. 353 00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:58.200 Yeah, well, I really want the, find that it does that, but I wanted to see the outside, you know, like the, like the dome in Castria. 354 00:21:58.259 --> 00:22:01.079 Like I wanted to see that so I could put it into context. 355 00:22:01.140 --> 00:22:08.880 Here it's trying to do what it's doing, what we were doing back in the season opener, where we just had the rooms of the Renaissance Italy rather than the whole outside. 356 00:22:08.940 --> 00:22:11.160 And I think for me, this is for me. 357 00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:13.980 I don't feel that expanse. 358 00:22:14.039 --> 00:22:18.180 I don't feel, I just, that aspect of it just doesn't do it for me. 359 00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:25.259 I think, I mean, that's, I think, why it was so exciting when we actually saw finally and was it sound of drums when we saw... 360 00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:27.539 Well, well, Gallifray. yeah Yeah, yeah. 361 00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:31.079 Maybe we needed to wait for the technology. 362 00:22:31.140 --> 00:22:33.359 Because it does look great when it comes along, I think. 363 00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:36.779 And I can see why it concentrates on that and it's done like that, you know? 364 00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:42.180 But all the things that I praised in the masking band, Draga for doing that and why they did it. 365 00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:43.799 I'm not going to praise you. 366 00:22:43.859 --> 00:22:51.960 The mask of Mandragra did have, you know, like beautiful exterior shots of the palace and that kind of thing, which we don't get anything like here. 367 00:22:52.019 --> 00:23:00.059 But I do think given that the production isn't going to allow them to have a giant big great hall, which is really what you kind of need the Panopticon to be. 368 00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:03.000 They do a reasonable job. of this. 369 00:23:03.059 --> 00:23:05.640 I think the sets, you know, they're pretty good. 370 00:23:05.700 --> 00:23:06.480 Yeah. 371 00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:09.059 Can I think out one thing that I'm really irritated by this story? 372 00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:11.819 You have one thing that you're really irritated by. 373 00:23:11.940 --> 00:23:12.359 Oh, sorry. 374 00:23:12.420 --> 00:23:13.019 Another thing. 375 00:23:13.140 --> 00:23:14.519 There's no women. 376 00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:18.119 The Time Lords are just all these men. 377 00:23:18.359 --> 00:23:21.180 And I just... 378 00:23:21.180 --> 00:23:22.140 There's Helen Blatch. 379 00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:23.519 What does she do? 380 00:23:23.579 --> 00:23:27.240 She reads out the thing about Rassalon, she's the computer voice. 381 00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:28.200 Yeah. 382 00:23:28.200 --> 00:23:29.519 Does it count? 383 00:23:29.579 --> 00:23:37.559 Well, look, we've complained and we've been complaining for ages about Philip Hinchcliffe and Bob Holmes, production team, not including women. 384 00:23:37.619 --> 00:23:42.240 And season 12 was pretty deplorable with its 3 speaking parts for women. 385 00:23:42.299 --> 00:23:44.819 But this is terrible and there's really no excuse for it. 386 00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:46.319 Why couldn't they be there? 387 00:23:46.380 --> 00:23:46.859 Why? 388 00:23:46.920 --> 00:23:47.519 Yeah, yeah. 389 00:23:47.579 --> 00:23:49.500 I mean, there's not even any female extras. 390 00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:50.279 No. 391 00:23:50.339 --> 00:24:13.440 I think I think the thing is, and we're going to come up against this again, that Holmes is kind of, you know, because he does literary pastiche, and he reaches into the past for the kinds of stories that have been told before, and because he wants to model this on the Vatican, and he wants to model it on a Oxbridge colleges, which were, the Vatican is still all men, and Oxbridge colleges were all men as well. 392 00:24:13.500 --> 00:24:21.660 And so for the same reason that things get so sort of, let's use Brendan's word problematic towards the end of the season. 393 00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:29.099 It is because he'll take these literary traditions and just won't bother to fix the problems with them. 394 00:24:29.160 --> 00:24:33.900 You know, like I'm not being a social justice warrior here or anything like that. 395 00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:36.539 I'm just bored with all these men. 396 00:24:36.599 --> 00:24:37.680 Do you know what I mean? 397 00:24:37.740 --> 00:24:38.579 It's dull. 398 00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:45.480 And the new series where you will have bunches of women or guest casts that are predominantly women for no particular reason. 399 00:24:45.539 --> 00:24:56.160 Or even when Saywood comes along or, you know, Pennant Roberts later and just start to put women in for, you know, not for any reason other than their 50% of the population. 400 00:24:56.220 --> 00:24:58.259 You know, things improve, I think. 401 00:24:58.319 --> 00:24:59.279 Yeah, absolutely. 402 00:24:59.339 --> 00:25:10.259 I mean, The new series, when they do historical stories, there is almost always an element of social commentary on how the times have changed. 403 00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:12.240 So, for instance, in the Shakespeare code. 404 00:25:12.299 --> 00:25:18.779 Martha brings up how her skin colour may be a problem in the time period she's in. 405 00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:41.940 And in that way, it manages to address racism, without doing the whole story about racism, but in a way that it doesn't feel shoehorned in, it feels natural, whereas the absence of women in this feels completely unnatural, because Robert Holmes has just gone, oh, yes, let's have this setting without, as you say, Nathan, updating it and fixing the problems. 406 00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:47.039 Another problem I have with the story is that each episode seems to be part of a completely different story. 407 00:25:47.099 --> 00:25:48.960 So the 1st episode is a political thriller. 408 00:25:49.079 --> 00:25:51.960 The 2nd episode is a police procedural. 409 00:25:52.019 --> 00:25:54.599 So they're collecting the evidence, slightly later. 410 00:25:54.660 --> 00:25:59.339 There are some lovely moments in there and the doctor gets to be a bit Sherlock Holmes, you know. 411 00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:01.500 I can feel my hair curling. 412 00:26:01.559 --> 00:26:03.900 So either I'm getting an idea or it's about to rain. 413 00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:06.240 There's little charming moments in there. 414 00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:09.000 We come to the 3rd episode. 415 00:26:09.420 --> 00:26:17.400 Which is the episode set almost entirely inside the Matrix, which is a real love it or hated episode. 416 00:26:17.460 --> 00:26:19.859 So I'm just going to give you a few statistics about this. 417 00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:24.900 First of all, it was, I believe, the highest rated episode of the story, about 13 million viewers. 418 00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:31.559 Secondly, there are approximately 54 lines of dialogue in the episode. 419 00:26:31.799 --> 00:26:35.400 Roughly two lines every minute. 420 00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:38.880 That is how little dialogue there is in this episode. 421 00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:40.440 That is how thin the script is. 422 00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:55.680 And finally, the various geysers of goth that attack the doctor in the matrix, so the samurai, the clown, et cetera, were actually played by Bernard Horsport. 423 00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:57.299 Was the clown burned horse? 424 00:26:57.359 --> 00:26:58.500 Clown was burned at horsefall. 425 00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:01.740 He says, you know, I remember getting made up and laughing into the camera, that was very good. 426 00:27:01.799 --> 00:27:03.420 Todd, was I right about the ratings? 427 00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:07.079 You were, but I often judge an episode on the episode after. 428 00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:09.059 Yes, because that's the impact. 429 00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:12.420 And one.2 million less viewers tuned in next week. 430 00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:14.460 Oh, I'm ambivalent about it. 431 00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:15.720 I'm not lover or hate it. 432 00:27:15.779 --> 00:27:27.599 I think it's a really, really bold decision to, because you think of this story and you think it's a studio bound story set on Galafray, but in fact, you know, nearly a, you know, one whole episode is on location. 433 00:27:27.660 --> 00:27:38.579 Having a virtual world created inside a computer network is cyberpunk, you know, I mean, it's really early for that idea to even exist. 434 00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:43.019 Yeah, the problem is, though, we just end up in a quarry. 435 00:27:43.019 --> 00:27:44.160 Oh, no. 436 00:27:44.220 --> 00:27:44.759 No, no, I know. 437 00:27:44.759 --> 00:27:45.599 It's a quarry park. 438 00:27:45.660 --> 00:27:58.500 But, but, you know, it's realer than the stuff set in the real world, because it's on film, because it's on location, because the doctor's being attacked by things identifiable things from the 20th century or from Earth. 439 00:27:58.559 --> 00:28:00.720 I think it's too violent. 440 00:28:00.779 --> 00:28:03.599 I think it's incredibly misjudged. 441 00:28:03.660 --> 00:28:05.940 So the doctor gets shot twice. 442 00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:11.160 He tries to blow up Chancellor Goth with a grenade and seriously injures him. 443 00:28:11.220 --> 00:28:16.799 He poisons Goth, Goth catches fire, he hits him with a stick. 444 00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:20.460 And then there's that notorious episode 3 cliffhanger. 445 00:28:20.519 --> 00:28:26.880 And if you've seen more than 30 years in the Tartars, you know, Mary Whitehouse from the Cleanup National City. 446 00:28:26.940 --> 00:28:29.400 I still see it in my mind. mind's eye. 447 00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:35.160 Yeah, she, and, and, you know, she campaigned against the show in the Hinchcliffe era. 448 00:28:35.160 --> 00:28:41.160 And, like, am I wrong in my memories of the history here that when, like, Hinchcliffe gets moved off and onto Target? 449 00:28:41.220 --> 00:28:42.900 And yeah, that was part of the reason. 450 00:28:42.900 --> 00:28:44.640 And Graham, that's part of the reason. 451 00:28:44.700 --> 00:28:46.200 Graham Williams comes on. 452 00:28:46.259 --> 00:28:49.799 He's told to tone the violence down. 453 00:28:49.920 --> 00:29:03.599 And Hinchcliffe, in just a massive middle finger to his successor, just blows the budget completely on this season, and particularly on talons of Wayne Cheyang. 454 00:29:03.660 --> 00:29:09.779 And so this story, it's a pivotal point in the history of the show, not because of the time lords, because who cares? 455 00:29:09.779 --> 00:29:11.339 And we're better off without them. 456 00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:11.940 They're terrible. 457 00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:28.019 But in just the direction that the show takes, the fact that the budget collapses and the show stops being scary and and then eventually, like I think that there's a line, a terrible, terrible line from here to the eventual cancellation of the show. 458 00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:38.160 And I think that Hingecliffe and Holmes, who have been skirting with being irresponsibly violent for a while, just go over the line here. 459 00:29:38.279 --> 00:29:39.660 Yeah, yeah. 460 00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:50.759 And the violence is just so bizarre because we've been told that this matrix that they're in, it can create things from your thoughts. 461 00:29:51.240 --> 00:29:58.259 And the doctor has been built up over the 70s as having these immense mental faculties. 462 00:29:58.319 --> 00:30:00.299 You know, he can survive psychic assaults. 463 00:30:00.359 --> 00:30:04.019 There's the mind bending contest in Morbius, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 464 00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:11.759 But he has no power in this area and he has to resort to brute force. 465 00:30:11.819 --> 00:30:15.660 And I think that's a huge, huge weakening of the character. 466 00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:18.119 And it's not it's not really addressed. 467 00:30:18.180 --> 00:30:21.900 I think the brute force is the mental... you know what I mean? 468 00:30:22.019 --> 00:30:32.579 Like, I think that what we're seeing is the mental battle between Goth and the doctor, but that it's played out in these physical terms, you know, that's the form it takes. 469 00:30:32.700 --> 00:30:34.559 It's a little bit like omega. 470 00:30:34.619 --> 00:30:36.660 It's played out very crudely, though. 471 00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:37.859 That's the thing. 472 00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:41.880 The doctor doesn't attempt to capture or incapacitate goth. 473 00:30:41.940 --> 00:30:43.859 He doesn't attempt to nullify the threat. 474 00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:48.960 He attempts to remove the threat. doesn't goth create this reality. 475 00:30:49.019 --> 00:30:50.160 Isn't he in charge of it? 476 00:30:50.220 --> 00:30:52.440 Well, from what the dialogue says. 477 00:30:52.500 --> 00:30:53.160 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 478 00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:55.740 Now, this is where I have a problem with this. 479 00:30:55.799 --> 00:30:58.740 I didn't see this. is where you have a problem with this story. 480 00:30:58.799 --> 00:31:02.400 You do not get to tell someone they can't like things, Nathan. 481 00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:04.799 When have I ever accused the story of being tired? 482 00:31:04.859 --> 00:31:05.819 Todd. 483 00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:06.900 This is tires. 484 00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:16.680 This is tiresome because I come to it from a Star Trek perspective, having watched Star Trek, where they have these people going to these fake realities that are all in their mind and you watch the whole episode and then it's not real. 485 00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:18.420 And I loathe it. 486 00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:19.380 I love it to be. 487 00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:23.759 At this point in time, if you are a fan in the UK watching this, this is revolutionary. 488 00:31:23.819 --> 00:31:25.619 But that's not my perspective. 489 00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:27.660 What we get is we get over an episode. 490 00:31:27.720 --> 00:31:31.440 Over an episode of, well, it's not really happening, right? 491 00:31:31.500 --> 00:31:35.940 With all these horrible events happening, Goff is supposed to be in charge, right? 492 00:31:36.059 --> 00:31:37.440 It's supposed to be his reality. 493 00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:43.440 He spends 3 quarters of an episode masked, and then the doctor goes, oh, tell me who you really are. 494 00:31:43.500 --> 00:31:46.319 So he decides, oh, yes, I'll tell you that I'm goth, right? 495 00:31:46.380 --> 00:31:48.839 Up to that point, he is superhuman. 496 00:31:48.900 --> 00:31:56.579 Then, the moment, science fiction cliche, that you unmask that superhuman thing, then they're suddenly vulnerable. 497 00:31:56.640 --> 00:31:59.519 He, you know, he's creating this reality. 498 00:31:59.579 --> 00:32:01.500 Well, I'm going to leave the grenades here. 499 00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:04.079 If it's my reality, maybe I should just make them disappear. 500 00:32:04.140 --> 00:32:11.039 When I pour the poison glass of jar into the creek, Surely I would make that disappear, right? 501 00:32:11.099 --> 00:32:11.640 Yeah. 502 00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:12.960 Not leave it there for the doctor to find. 503 00:32:13.019 --> 00:32:21.779 And then, you know, when I do get injured, surely I could just, you know, we'll just get rid of that wall over there on the left, and I'll create some special medical device to heal myself. 504 00:32:21.900 --> 00:32:24.599 It's all that stuff that just drives me exactly. 505 00:32:24.660 --> 00:32:25.619 It's absolutely mad. 506 00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:29.220 And by the end of this episode, I am so irritated with this show. 507 00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:30.119 Yeah. 508 00:32:30.180 --> 00:32:32.880 And that is why this is my least favourite story of the season. 509 00:32:32.940 --> 00:32:35.039 It's not how the timeless work. 510 00:32:35.099 --> 00:32:35.940 It's this. 511 00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:41.400 And there's all this technical techno battle to set up the matrix, the data extracts, things that they go on with. 512 00:32:41.460 --> 00:32:43.980 And I'm just thinking, oh, and yeah, you know what? 513 00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:50.279 Much later in the show, we get Christopher Bidmead who's accused of taking the magic out of Doctor Who. 514 00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:54.119 This takes so much magic out of it. 515 00:32:54.180 --> 00:33:01.500 The doctor, our magical man in the box. says that brain waves are just electrochemical impulses. 516 00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:03.900 The doctor reduces the soul to science. 517 00:33:03.960 --> 00:33:05.880 Now, I am not a religious person. 518 00:33:05.940 --> 00:33:12.059 I'm not really a spiritual person, but I don't think that the doctor should be defining that. 519 00:33:12.119 --> 00:33:17.940 And then we get, we get, we get all this scientific explanation of how the Matrix works. 520 00:33:17.940 --> 00:33:28.380 The doctor is a character who has managed to defeat Omega, the most mentally powerful time lord in existence, who has a whole universe at his disposal. 521 00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:33.119 And yet, the best he can do against Goff is to try and blow him up with a grenade. 522 00:33:33.180 --> 00:33:37.559 It's like, ah, it just feels so wrong for the character. 523 00:33:37.619 --> 00:33:44.220 He's taking up arms and On the one hand, you could say, oh, you know, it's the desperation of the situation. 524 00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:47.640 But, The doctor should always find another way. 525 00:33:47.700 --> 00:33:56.220 I put out there that the doctor in the Matrix in this story is far more violent than anything Colin Baker's doctor does. 526 00:33:56.279 --> 00:33:58.680 I think this is the most violent the show has been. 527 00:33:58.740 --> 00:34:02.220 And look, I actually find that episode pretty entertaining, I have to say. 528 00:34:02.339 --> 00:34:03.299 Oh, it's entertaining. 529 00:34:03.299 --> 00:34:07.200 Oh, look, there's entertaining... action packed and stuff. know, there's a lot going on. 530 00:34:07.259 --> 00:34:11.820 But it just, all those reasons why I've said just begin to just mount up and irritate me. 531 00:34:11.880 --> 00:34:15.539 And even the choo-choo train that comes at the end of whatever episode it is. 532 00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:16.920 I kind of went, oh, big whoop. 533 00:34:17.340 --> 00:34:19.019 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 534 00:34:19.079 --> 00:34:19.980 Because we know what's going to happen. 535 00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:23.880 It's just going to disappear because we know this is an illusory world. 536 00:34:23.940 --> 00:34:27.059 I have problems with the master's motivations in this. 537 00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:28.440 Wait and get the doctor involved. 538 00:34:28.500 --> 00:34:35.340 Up to this point in time, he's quite, he's quite willing to, you know, want to take over the universe and know if the doctor dies. 539 00:34:35.400 --> 00:34:35.880 Ha, ha, ha. 540 00:34:35.940 --> 00:34:41.460 But here, after, you know, he's completely mentally unhinged, it's a complete rewrite of the character. 541 00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:42.119 Oh, I agree. 542 00:34:42.179 --> 00:34:45.239 And when he's described, particularly by the doctor. 543 00:34:45.300 --> 00:34:49.559 You know, he's described as being thoroughly evil and the embodiment of evil. 544 00:34:49.619 --> 00:34:54.119 Well, that wasn't Delgado, Delgado, used to have sword fights and eat sandwiches and stuff. 545 00:34:54.179 --> 00:34:54.780 He was lovely. 546 00:34:54.900 --> 00:35:02.159 And back to what you were saying, this is going to influence the rest of the show and what Paul Anthony Ainley has to go through in the 1980s. 547 00:35:02.219 --> 00:35:02.639 Yes. 548 00:35:02.699 --> 00:35:08.340 And, you know, even in the final sequences here where the master actually shoots them all and knocks them out. 549 00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:13.619 Well, surely at this point in time, he's shrunk Hildred to nothing, wouldn't he just kill them at that point? 550 00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:17.940 Like, it's just, to me, it's sort of like, you wanted to destroy them, but no, we're just gonna stun them. 551 00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:19.739 Really, honestly? 552 00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:22.800 At least they don't, they don't prolong it. 553 00:35:22.860 --> 00:35:24.840 And he just says immediately, no, they're just stunned. 554 00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:28.380 Like we don't get to, we don't have to go, oh, you know, are they dead? 555 00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:28.800 you know. 556 00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:37.800 Yeah, because he does the sort of 1930s Batman villain thing of going, you know, no, they're not dead because you're going to suffer when the planet explodes. 557 00:35:37.860 --> 00:35:41.219 And it's like, that's the whole reason he's called the doctor back to Gala, right? 558 00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:53.460 If the doctor's premonition had been sent by the Matrix, which could have then been, the doctor could have said, oh, maybe it's not just electrochemical impulses, maybe there is consciousness there. 559 00:35:53.460 --> 00:35:55.679 And, you know, that's science fiction and that's interesting. 560 00:35:55.739 --> 00:35:58.800 No, the masters lured him back there in order to kill him. 561 00:35:58.860 --> 00:36:03.179 And that is what stops the master with the fact he's lured the doctor back there. 562 00:36:03.239 --> 00:36:08.219 So, it's the stupidest the master has ever, ever been. 563 00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:10.380 You know, I think it's been... 564 00:36:10.500 --> 00:36:12.599 I actually think the competition's pretty stiff. 565 00:36:12.659 --> 00:36:18.599 Okay, yeah, it is, because Delgado used to get involved with these allies and then go, oh, you've betrayed me. 566 00:36:18.659 --> 00:36:29.880 Whereas in this case, the master has gotten someone who he knows will betray him, no matter what happens, and just gone, oh, yeah, come on over here so I can have some fun with you. 567 00:36:29.940 --> 00:36:33.119 It's another one of these criminals from the past. 568 00:36:33.179 --> 00:36:34.800 It's another hinge of homes. 569 00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:35.639 Yes. 570 00:36:35.699 --> 00:36:36.300 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 571 00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:37.320 Who's back for revenge? 572 00:36:37.380 --> 00:36:43.800 And we get the doctor's exile mentioned in a few things that kind of hint to us that it's going to be the master a bit later on. 573 00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:47.820 And I do like the reveal because goth calls him master. 574 00:36:47.880 --> 00:36:50.400 And then we discover it the master. 575 00:36:50.460 --> 00:36:52.079 Yeah, yeah, yeah. you know, that's kind of fun. 576 00:36:52.139 --> 00:36:55.980 But he is he isn't the master that we know at all. 577 00:36:56.039 --> 00:37:01.440 It irritates me that the masters sort of been erased from everything at the CIA's request. 578 00:37:01.500 --> 00:37:03.059 Like to me, it's just sort of like, really? 579 00:37:03.119 --> 00:37:03.840 You're going to do that? 580 00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:06.239 Honestly, I thought he got in and stole his file. 581 00:37:06.300 --> 00:37:07.559 Yeah, that's what I file. 582 00:37:07.619 --> 00:37:10.739 You know, when he stole the doomsday weapon file and all of that. 583 00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:13.679 He stole his own school reports and stuff, you know. 584 00:37:13.739 --> 00:37:19.500 But then at the beginning, it says, Gallifrey Faces doesn't the biggest sort of crisis or whatever. 585 00:37:19.559 --> 00:37:29.340 And really, in the end, it's like 2 policeman pseudo-companions, commander of the guard, and a couple of people actually really do know what's going on, and the rest of Galliprey is probably quite oblivious to the... 586 00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:36.239 No, but a big black croton head came out of the floor and nearly destroyed the entire planet in the nearby star system. 587 00:37:36.300 --> 00:37:38.039 It was a giant crisis. 588 00:37:38.099 --> 00:37:41.519 No, but they're not aware of that until that point. you know what I'm saying? 589 00:37:41.579 --> 00:37:44.159 Nobody's aware of it until, well, that happens, you know? 590 00:37:44.219 --> 00:37:54.179 But I mean, they rewrite it and there's that wonderful scene at the very end with Angus Mackay's Verusa trying to decide what the real, the real story that they're going to tell. 591 00:37:54.300 --> 00:37:55.199 Yeah, I mean, that's good. 592 00:37:55.199 --> 00:37:55.920 That's terrific. 593 00:37:55.980 --> 00:38:03.420 You know, all that that Machiavellian politicking, which is just the sort of cynical thing that you employ Bob Holmes to do, I think. 594 00:38:03.480 --> 00:38:09.900 I mean, I can see why at the time, fans would say that this was, you know, cutting edge. 595 00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:25.860 It was like, you know, it was so different from anything else on television, in terms of presentation and style, but I think that I'd love, for those people out there who regard this as the be all and indoor and really up there, to go back and rewatch it after what Webb said and realise that it ain't all that. 596 00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:28.380 I like it more than you do, I think. 597 00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:30.000 And it is Bob Holmes. 598 00:38:30.059 --> 00:38:31.440 You know, he is funny. 599 00:38:31.500 --> 00:38:36.719 There's all sorts of reasons to dislike him, but he is a skilled. skilled writer. 600 00:38:36.780 --> 00:38:37.920 He writes funny dog. 601 00:38:37.980 --> 00:38:40.860 I'll acknowledge that there's good dialogue, there's good performances. 602 00:38:40.920 --> 00:38:42.119 I can see what it's trying to do. 603 00:38:42.179 --> 00:38:45.960 I just, I mean, is just not there. 604 00:38:46.019 --> 00:38:47.699 Yeah, they just, you know what? 605 00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:48.539 The design's great. 606 00:38:48.599 --> 00:38:50.400 The direction's great. 607 00:38:50.460 --> 00:38:51.539 Performances are great. 608 00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:53.099 The dialogue itself is great. 609 00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:57.000 The plot is complete. bobbins. 610 00:38:57.059 --> 00:39:00.000 The greatest threat to the Time Lords have ever faced in their history. 611 00:39:00.059 --> 00:39:00.780 Oh, yeah. 612 00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:05.400 Getting sucked into a black hole by your ancient god who gave you time travel. 613 00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:06.960 No, that's nothing. 614 00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:08.760 Now, that happened three times that week. 615 00:39:08.820 --> 00:39:09.960 We didn't just see it. 616 00:39:10.019 --> 00:39:11.219 That's true. on screen. 617 00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:22.500 My favourite big, can I say, from the absolute climax is, as we said before, this terribly unimpressive thing comes out of the top, the floor and the masters manipulating and the doctor rushes in. 618 00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:27.780 And then the master ends up running after the doctor, hitting him with the sash of wrestling. 619 00:39:28.079 --> 00:39:30.239 Obviously camp way. 620 00:39:30.300 --> 00:39:31.079 Yes. 621 00:39:31.079 --> 00:39:32.340 It's terrific. 622 00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:34.860 It's the master, it is absolute best. 623 00:39:34.980 --> 00:39:37.500 The one thing I do like about the master in this. 624 00:39:37.559 --> 00:39:53.760 You know, I think Peter Pratt's voice is fine, as I mentioned before, but the one thing I really like is there's a line he gives, which implies that his mania, if you like, his obsession with the doctor is due to the fact that he has become so deformed. 625 00:39:53.820 --> 00:40:02.159 He says something to go off like, you know, once I was like you, but now in this form, and that is the only way I can imagine. 626 00:40:02.219 --> 00:40:17.219 That's the only way I can accept that this is the Delgado master, because he was urbane and suave and charming, and that is where most of his power came from, was his ability to influence, take that away from him. 627 00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:20.760 And yeah, it would lead to him being this sort of decrepit figure. 628 00:40:20.820 --> 00:40:21.780 I don't think it quite works. 629 00:40:21.900 --> 00:40:24.840 But You might have to keep telling yourself, though. 630 00:40:24.900 --> 00:40:28.980 I, I, I think that was the active idea they were going for. 631 00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:31.800 I think they were acknowledging the past of the character. 632 00:40:31.860 --> 00:40:32.880 I don't think they do it enough. 633 00:40:32.940 --> 00:40:35.159 What do you think about his sausage fingers? 634 00:40:35.219 --> 00:40:37.739 The gloves, the gloves are amazing. 635 00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:42.300 The mask, I think, could be a little bit smaller, so it actually looks like a skull. 636 00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:46.380 But the sausage fingery gloves are very, very scary. 637 00:40:46.440 --> 00:40:49.920 I think the ping-pong ball eyes are terrifying. 638 00:40:49.980 --> 00:40:50.280 Yeah. 639 00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:53.340 Yeah. so much more effective than Jeffrey Beavers. 640 00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:53.880 Right? 641 00:40:54.179 --> 00:40:56.940 Jeffrey Beavers has a lovely voice as well. 642 00:40:57.000 --> 00:40:59.460 Oh, no, I think it's a great performance. 643 00:40:59.519 --> 00:41:04.679 Don't get me wrong, but I think the ping pong ball eyes in this make it that much more terrifying. 644 00:41:04.739 --> 00:41:09.780 That weird final shot where you can kind of see through the Master's Tartar's clock face. 645 00:41:09.780 --> 00:41:14.460 And there's this sort of weird face and it's kind of like, is it half regenerating or something? 646 00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:20.460 Yeah, yeah, maybe maybe they're giving themselves the option of bringing him back regenerated, but they just don't go anywhere. 647 00:41:20.519 --> 00:41:21.420 I hope they don't. 648 00:41:21.480 --> 00:41:23.760 I hope this is the last we see. 649 00:41:23.820 --> 00:41:24.719 I agree as well. 650 00:41:24.780 --> 00:41:29.880 When I watch this story, I never think that he's regenerating, but I know that some people out there do. 651 00:41:29.940 --> 00:41:32.820 There's something weird looking about him. 652 00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:35.099 Yeah, he's kind of he's kind of a bit more fleshy, isn't he? 653 00:41:35.159 --> 00:41:37.079 Maybe stolen goth's face. 654 00:41:37.739 --> 00:41:41.340 I really didn't want to just trash this story and that's what I've done. 655 00:41:41.400 --> 00:41:42.960 You secretly like it. 656 00:41:43.019 --> 00:41:44.280 It's like me and the massacre. 657 00:41:44.340 --> 00:41:45.599 I watch it once a week. 658 00:41:55.920 --> 00:42:00.599 Right, well, dear listener, that's all the time we have for the deadly assassin. 659 00:42:00.659 --> 00:42:10.860 Next week, I'm going to be taking us down a, uh, forest path where we meet our new companion, Leela as played by Louise Jameson in the face of evil. 660 00:42:10.920 --> 00:42:13.500 Oh, I thought you were gonna say Little Red Riding Hood. 661 00:42:13.860 --> 00:42:22.380 Until then, do check us out online, Flightthrough Entirety.com, flat through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on Twitter. 662 00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:24.780 Also available on Bond Finger at the moment. 663 00:42:24.840 --> 00:42:29.159 We have commentaries for Dr. No and from Russia with love, and next Saturday. 664 00:42:29.219 --> 00:42:35.460 You will be able to get the classic Sean Connery, James Bond film, Goldfinger on there as well. 665 00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:40.500 You will also find Bondfinger on Facebook and Bondfinger cast on Twitter. 666 00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:45.179 Until then, may all your fingers not be sausage ones. 667 00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:45.599 Good night. 668 00:42:45.659 --> 00:42:46.079 Good night. 669 00:42:46.139 --> 00:42:46.980 See you soon. 670 00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:54.119 That was Flight 2 Entirety, Todd Beale, Nathan Buffinley, and Brendan Jones. 671 00:42:54.179 --> 00:42:58.920 This episode, a hooker in the TARDIS, was recording on Sunday, the 2nd of August. 672 00:42:58.980 --> 00:43:02.460 The next episode will be released on October 4th, 2015. 673 00:43:02.699 --> 00:43:09.420 I do try not to flux with or change my state, but I accidentally bought DovRule instead of Botox. 674 00:43:15.480 --> 00:43:20.159 It should have stuff about like trade embargoes and stuff. 675 00:43:20.820 --> 00:43:24.539 Taxation of trade routes to outlying star systems. 676 00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:28.500 Oh, wait, let me put everything on airplane mode. 677 00:43:28.559 --> 00:43:30.420 Oh, God, I haven't done that either. 678 00:43:30.900 --> 00:43:33.480 I'd hate for us to be interrupted. 679 00:43:33.599 --> 00:43:37.559 Watch my phone, my pacemaker.