WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 14:49:38 1 00:00:28.559 --> 00:00:32.640 Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety 2 00:00:32.640 --> 00:00:35.939 the only Doctor Who podcast, who, once we're released from bondage 3 00:00:35.939 --> 00:00:36.840 will be irresistible. 4 00:00:36.899 --> 00:00:37.560 I'm Brendan. 5 00:00:37.619 --> 00:00:38.280 I'm Nathan. 6 00:00:38.340 --> 00:00:41.219 And I feel like I've swallowed traces of glucanol. 7 00:00:42.479 --> 00:00:45.899 It's time for the Chris Boucher. 8 00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:48.719 Or is it Agatha Christie Classic, The Robots of Death? 9 00:00:57.780 --> 00:01:02.520 This is... close to my favourite Doctor 2 story of all time. 10 00:01:02.579 --> 00:01:03.719 I'm gonna say this. 11 00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:07.500 I love Pamela Salem Pilot 2s. 12 00:01:07.560 --> 00:01:09.180 She's fantastic. 13 00:01:09.239 --> 00:01:11.640 She was my kindergarten teacher, Mrs Gauge. 14 00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:14.159 She was my first class teacher, Mrs. Marx. 15 00:01:14.219 --> 00:01:16.379 She was my third class teacher, Mrs. Fletcher. 16 00:01:16.439 --> 00:01:21.060 I adored her in all of her incarnations and every time I watched 17 00:01:21.060 --> 00:01:24.120 her and for me, she just makes this show. 18 00:01:24.180 --> 00:01:25.620 I just I'm just in love with her. 19 00:01:25.680 --> 00:01:28.799 This is really unusual for a Hingecliff story in that there are 20 00:01:28.799 --> 00:01:32.219 two women in it, and they get to speak and they have characters. 21 00:01:32.280 --> 00:01:36.420 And I think there's more than that, actually, because so often 22 00:01:36.420 --> 00:01:39.900 like, I'm really starting to get irritated with a Hingecliffe area 23 00:01:39.900 --> 00:01:41.219 and the adulation that it receives. 24 00:01:41.579 --> 00:01:45.719 Normally, the guest cast in a Hinchcliffe story are a bunch of men 25 00:01:45.719 --> 00:01:51.659 in uniforms, with no actual personalities to speak of beyond, you 26 00:01:51.659 --> 00:01:53.040 know, the performances of the actors. 27 00:01:53.159 --> 00:01:57.959 But here, you know, everyone is dressed sort of lavishly with this 28 00:01:57.959 --> 00:01:59.400 sort of fantastic makeup. 29 00:01:59.459 --> 00:02:03.659 And, you know, in episode one, you get that scene on the sand 30 00:02:03.659 --> 00:02:05.700 minor where they're all kind of talking and stuff. 31 00:02:05.819 --> 00:02:10.919 And very, very economically Boucher establishes their character, so 32 00:02:10.919 --> 00:02:12.719 you get Chub teasing Vorg. 33 00:02:12.780 --> 00:02:15.060 Vorg, I want to say, Borg. 34 00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:19.439 Borg, sounds Swedish, and you get, you know, Uvanov being terribly 35 00:02:19.439 --> 00:02:22.740 driven, and everyone being kind of dismissive of Uvanov, and it's 36 00:02:22.740 --> 00:02:24.360 all done really well. desk is very logical. 37 00:02:24.419 --> 00:02:28.319 And all of the characters are so well delineated and so well 38 00:02:28.319 --> 00:02:28.919 defined. 39 00:02:29.039 --> 00:02:30.840 And it makes such a change. 40 00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:35.460 It's great to see, like, with such a large cast, there are very 41 00:02:35.460 --> 00:02:36.180 few weak links. 42 00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:39.659 I mean, I think Zelda is possibly the weakest link in terms of 43 00:02:39.659 --> 00:02:39.960 actors. 44 00:02:40.020 --> 00:02:43.680 I think the director keeps her under control quite well, initial 45 00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:48.060 scenes, it's just her breakdown and crying before she dies, that 46 00:02:48.060 --> 00:02:49.500 is really quite diabolical. 47 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:50.219 Yeah. 48 00:02:50.219 --> 00:02:54.479 But, you know, back to like the costuming and the makeup and all 49 00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:55.680 that art deco stuff. 50 00:02:55.740 --> 00:02:59.219 Like imagine if this was done like, I don't know, Planet of Evil 51 00:02:59.219 --> 00:03:02.939 with, you know, base sets and sterile corridors and like just 52 00:03:02.939 --> 00:03:04.740 nondescript uniforms. 53 00:03:04.800 --> 00:03:07.560 I mean, that is part of the character of this story, that this 54 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:09.900 society has this about it. 55 00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:10.620 Yeah. 56 00:03:10.680 --> 00:03:14.039 And it works thematically too, because it's a revolution, isn't 57 00:03:14.039 --> 00:03:14.219 it? 58 00:03:14.280 --> 00:03:17.460 And so the people, the humans that we see are upper class. 59 00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:18.419 Do you know what I mean? 60 00:03:18.479 --> 00:03:21.240 And they have slaves and servitors who they order around. 61 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:24.659 So straight away, they're all lying on couches in absolute luxury 62 00:03:24.659 --> 00:03:28.199 playing games of chess and sort of lying languidly and sort of 63 00:03:28.199 --> 00:03:31.139 firing hilarious bolmos at each other. 64 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:35.879 But they're also massively dismissive of the robots. 65 00:03:35.939 --> 00:03:39.180 And even tooths who we absolutely adore. 66 00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:43.259 I think it's in episode 3, where 7 comes to her quarters and stuff 67 00:03:43.259 --> 00:03:47.699 and she's just really rude to him. like massively, absolutely. 68 00:03:47.759 --> 00:03:52.199 But classism is a big part of the story because you've got the 69 00:03:52.199 --> 00:03:54.360 different classes of robots for a start. 70 00:03:54.419 --> 00:03:58.740 But you also have different classes within the human characters 71 00:03:58.740 --> 00:04:02.039 and that's established early on as well when they start going on 72 00:04:02.039 --> 00:04:03.599 about the founding 20 families. 73 00:04:03.659 --> 00:04:04.979 Yeah, yeah. 74 00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:09.060 And something I really like about Russell Hunter's performance is 75 00:04:09.060 --> 00:04:11.699 in moments of extremist, his accent slips. 76 00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:16.680 In episode 4, when they're going robot hunting... 77 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:17.759 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 78 00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:19.560 Or Liverpool, doesn't he? 79 00:04:19.620 --> 00:04:20.819 I think it's deliberate. 80 00:04:20.879 --> 00:04:24.180 And he has already said he's not from one of the founding 81 00:04:24.180 --> 00:04:25.019 families. 82 00:04:25.079 --> 00:04:29.339 I think he is a small town, a small town boy made good. 83 00:04:29.399 --> 00:04:31.139 Every planet has a Liverpool. 84 00:04:31.199 --> 00:04:32.459 Every planet has Liverpool. 85 00:04:32.519 --> 00:04:36.899 So he's developed this accent and then he slips back to what he 86 00:04:36.899 --> 00:04:38.759 once was a small kid. 87 00:04:38.819 --> 00:04:39.959 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 88 00:04:40.019 --> 00:04:43.800 Yeah, and I think it's just a little detail that was probably 89 00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:48.180 worked out between writer and between writer, director and actor 90 00:04:48.180 --> 00:04:51.480 because the line that he's not one of the 20 families is in 91 00:04:51.480 --> 00:04:51.720 there. 92 00:04:51.899 --> 00:04:54.120 But the accent is with the performance. 93 00:04:54.899 --> 00:04:59.040 Yeah, no, I love all of those touches, you know, throughout the 94 00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:03.779 story and I also love the fact that Boucher is writing for his 95 00:05:03.779 --> 00:05:05.040 character of Leila again. 96 00:05:05.100 --> 00:05:08.519 And there's just so just wonderful stuff from Louise Jemison in 97 00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:08.699 here. 98 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:12.899 And I think we forget, like, it's her 2nd time round, and it's 99 00:05:12.899 --> 00:05:16.019 just the way she moves and just different lines. 100 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:19.920 He gives like creepy mechanical men and, you know, they do not 101 00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:21.420 bleed or whatever, you know, things like that. 102 00:05:21.480 --> 00:05:24.120 You know, it's just all of wonderful little moments. 103 00:05:24.180 --> 00:05:27.839 It's sort of this unusual thing where it's written very much for 104 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:28.259 her. 105 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:30.180 I mean, he creates the character. 106 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:32.160 He writes her first eight episodes. 107 00:05:32.220 --> 00:05:36.000 We'll get that later with Mel, where Pip and Jane Baker write a 108 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:37.860 lot of initial episodes. 109 00:05:37.920 --> 00:05:44.279 But not to mention Johnny Byrne. and Nissa because she's so well 110 00:05:44.279 --> 00:05:45.480 written in Arc of Infinity. 111 00:05:45.540 --> 00:05:46.379 Yeah, brilliant. 112 00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:51.540 So all of the stuff about the robophobia and that uncanny valley 113 00:05:51.540 --> 00:05:54.720 that the robots in habit where they kind of look human, but they 114 00:05:54.720 --> 00:05:55.740 don't feel human. 115 00:05:55.740 --> 00:05:59.579 And the stuff where Poole's body language gives him away, the 116 00:05:59.579 --> 00:06:03.420 importance of body language to just the sort of, you know, as one 117 00:06:03.420 --> 00:06:06.600 of the themes of the story plays right into Leila's strengths. 118 00:06:06.660 --> 00:06:11.519 And so, um, rather than being stupid, which Leila will very 119 00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:17.100 quickly become spoiler alert for next week's episode, she's very 120 00:06:17.100 --> 00:06:20.759 smart and very competent but in a different field from the 121 00:06:20.759 --> 00:06:21.060 doctor. 122 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:22.019 Yeah. 123 00:06:22.439 --> 00:06:28.379 And the doctor is still being quite dismissive of her intuition 124 00:06:28.379 --> 00:06:32.759 because Leila feels something is about to go wrong before the sand 125 00:06:32.759 --> 00:06:35.579 minor crashes at the cliffhanger of episode two. 126 00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:36.959 And the doctor dismisses it. 127 00:06:37.019 --> 00:06:42.120 But when it comes true, his 1st reaction is, don't say I told you 128 00:06:42.120 --> 00:06:42.480 so. 129 00:06:42.540 --> 00:06:44.399 So he begins to accept it. 130 00:06:44.459 --> 00:06:50.699 But he is a rat, if you like, a rational intelligence, whereas 131 00:06:50.699 --> 00:06:52.860 hers is an intuitive intelligence. 132 00:06:52.920 --> 00:06:57.600 Can I just sidetrack us briefly and say, why does the Zan minor 133 00:06:57.600 --> 00:06:59.100 crash at the end of episode two? 134 00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:03.060 I think Desk sabotages it and then fixes it immediately? 135 00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:03.839 Yes. 136 00:07:03.899 --> 00:07:04.800 Right. 137 00:07:04.860 --> 00:07:07.379 To throw suspicion off himself. 138 00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:08.459 Okay. 139 00:07:08.519 --> 00:07:12.360 Yes, maybe he senses that we're 23 minutes into the episode. 140 00:07:12.420 --> 00:07:16.199 Well, you know, there is that constraint we have to construct that 141 00:07:16.199 --> 00:07:16.800 we have to live with. 142 00:07:16.860 --> 00:07:19.920 Look, I'm going to criticise one performance in this story, and 143 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:24.000 it's one that a lot of people, university, universally love, and 144 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:25.680 that has to be cool. 145 00:07:25.740 --> 00:07:28.920 The problems that you have back in arc in space with the 146 00:07:28.920 --> 00:07:29.579 commander. 147 00:07:29.639 --> 00:07:31.439 I have the same problem with his performance here. 148 00:07:31.500 --> 00:07:35.639 I think it's just too over the top after his robophobia 149 00:07:35.639 --> 00:07:36.120 breakdown. 150 00:07:36.180 --> 00:07:39.060 And as a kid, I really, really loathe the performance. 151 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:42.720 Even now, I mean, I can see why he has, he's got literally 3 152 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:46.319 scenes to go from I've got a robophobia thing to complete an utter 153 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:49.860 breakdown, but I just kind of, you know, as a kid, I just kind of 154 00:07:49.860 --> 00:07:50.939 went, oh, look, what is this? 155 00:07:51.000 --> 00:07:52.019 Why is it so over the top? 156 00:07:52.079 --> 00:07:56.279 And I really disliked David Collings performance so much is that 157 00:07:56.279 --> 00:08:01.379 when he suddenly turned up in Modern Undead, I recognised his face 158 00:08:01.379 --> 00:08:03.420 and went, oh, no, not him. 159 00:08:03.540 --> 00:08:07.259 And so straight away I was totally against that performance in 160 00:08:07.259 --> 00:08:07.860 that character. 161 00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:10.920 So even now when I watch it, I can see what he's doing. 162 00:08:10.980 --> 00:08:13.860 And I'm glad that the character is then sidetracked and sort of 163 00:08:13.860 --> 00:08:15.899 you know, is gone by that point. 164 00:08:15.959 --> 00:08:16.620 Right? 165 00:08:16.680 --> 00:08:17.939 His performance up to that point. 166 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:19.379 I don't have a problem with. 167 00:08:19.439 --> 00:08:21.420 But then I just don't like it. 168 00:08:21.480 --> 00:08:22.560 I just think it's too much. 169 00:08:22.620 --> 00:08:25.680 I think that's a pretty reasonable assessment, actually. 170 00:08:25.740 --> 00:08:27.720 It is kind of over the top. 171 00:08:27.779 --> 00:08:30.779 And, you know, David Collings has got a great voice and a great 172 00:08:30.779 --> 00:08:34.799 presence and all of that sort of thing, but it is a bit actorly 173 00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:35.879 that breakdown, isn't it? 174 00:08:35.940 --> 00:08:37.139 It's not very convincing. 175 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:40.379 And even earlier on, and, you know, generally I like David 176 00:08:40.379 --> 00:08:42.779 Collins's performances, I love him in Sapphire and Steel. 177 00:08:42.840 --> 00:08:46.379 But even earlier on, there's one line that he says that always 178 00:08:46.379 --> 00:08:50.639 sticks in my head as, I don't quite believe that. when he's 179 00:08:50.639 --> 00:08:51.659 explaining about Zelda. 180 00:08:51.720 --> 00:08:53.399 And it's just a line. 181 00:08:53.460 --> 00:08:55.080 The dead man was her brother. 182 00:08:55.440 --> 00:08:58.679 There's just something about the way he delivers it. 183 00:08:58.740 --> 00:09:03.840 I can't quite put my finger on it, but it's, it's, It's like he's 184 00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:06.179 making sure the back row in the theatre hears it. 185 00:09:07.139 --> 00:09:10.799 I'm so relieved that we're all on the same page with this because 186 00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:12.240 I thought we weren't going to be, so yeah. 187 00:09:12.779 --> 00:09:15.120 As I say, you know, generally I like him, but I think there are 188 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:16.440 some deficiencies. 189 00:09:16.500 --> 00:09:21.240 Where, and I would argue that his deficiencies in his performance 190 00:09:21.240 --> 00:09:26.399 are actually worse than the deficiencies of Zilda, as played by 191 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:32.399 Tanya Rogers, because Zilda is kind of ropey for a line, and 192 00:09:32.399 --> 00:09:35.220 really, when she gets on the comms and shouts, you did it, Ivanov 193 00:09:35.220 --> 00:09:35.940 you filthy murderer. 194 00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:36.480 I like that. 195 00:09:36.539 --> 00:09:38.159 It's just the crying idea. 196 00:09:38.220 --> 00:09:39.120 Yeah, the crying is bad. 197 00:09:39.179 --> 00:09:42.360 The interaction between her and Ivanov is great where he's like 198 00:09:42.360 --> 00:09:47.639 really, really close to her face and like he clearly fancies her. 199 00:09:47.700 --> 00:09:48.240 Do you know what I mean? 200 00:09:48.299 --> 00:09:48.960 He really does. 201 00:09:49.080 --> 00:09:51.899 No, I think that's the strength of his acting as opposed to hers. 202 00:09:51.960 --> 00:09:54.659 Like I actually think in a number of those scenes where I watch 203 00:09:54.659 --> 00:09:54.899 her. 204 00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:58.320 I think she's struggling to maintain the same quality as the rest 205 00:09:58.320 --> 00:09:59.100 of the cast. 206 00:09:59.159 --> 00:10:01.799 That's just my interpretation of it. 207 00:10:01.860 --> 00:10:04.500 I just kind of think you're not really that good and you're just 208 00:10:04.500 --> 00:10:05.039 there. 209 00:10:05.100 --> 00:10:07.259 That's how I feel when I watch a performance. 210 00:10:07.379 --> 00:10:08.940 What do you think about Brian Croucher? 211 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:13.320 I actually really like Brian Croucher, and it's funny. 212 00:10:13.379 --> 00:10:18.960 It's like, He's the young virile Brian Croucher before he goes to 213 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:20.279 Gooless. 214 00:10:20.340 --> 00:10:23.340 I think there's a, we know how they age rapidly and sort of 215 00:10:23.340 --> 00:10:24.960 degenerate like overnight. 216 00:10:25.019 --> 00:10:30.299 So between this and Blake 7, like, it's like Cordaro and Blake 7. 217 00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:33.779 Like, season one, young Fitborough, season four. 218 00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:34.980 Oh my goodness, what the hell has happened? 219 00:10:35.100 --> 00:10:36.899 He's eaten a lot of space pies. 220 00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:38.820 But yes, I think he's great. 221 00:10:38.879 --> 00:10:41.519 Yeah, I think he's very good hair as well. 222 00:10:41.580 --> 00:10:44.580 And I think he's much better than he is as Travis, simply because 223 00:10:44.580 --> 00:10:45.899 terrible as Travis, isn't he? 224 00:10:45.960 --> 00:10:48.480 Yeah, but again, we've got we've got the classism here. 225 00:10:48.539 --> 00:10:53.279 And Borg is clearly not one of the founding 20 families as well. 226 00:10:53.340 --> 00:10:56.940 Like Chubb's from one of the founding 20 families, but Borg 227 00:10:56.940 --> 00:10:59.519 clearly isn't because, you know, Borg's a bit rough and Cockney 228 00:10:59.519 --> 00:11:00.000 and whatnot. 229 00:11:00.059 --> 00:11:03.360 And that's precisely what didn't work for Travis because Travis is 230 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:07.080 kind of meant to be like Hannibal Lecter. you know, he's meant to 231 00:11:07.080 --> 00:11:07.679 be cultured. 232 00:11:07.740 --> 00:11:09.840 It was Stephen here. 233 00:11:09.899 --> 00:11:12.120 Stephen Griff was terribly posh. 234 00:11:12.179 --> 00:11:12.659 Yeah, exactly. 235 00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:16.440 And then suddenly it's, then if I'm guilty of murder, of mass 236 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:18.120 murder, then so are all of you. 237 00:11:18.179 --> 00:11:19.799 You know, he's terrible. 238 00:11:19.860 --> 00:11:22.019 Whereas that really suits Borg. 239 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:25.139 And especially that wonderful scene where the doctor offers him a 240 00:11:25.139 --> 00:11:25.799 jelly baby. 241 00:11:25.799 --> 00:11:32.279 And he has a reaction which is anger, fear and disgust all in one 242 00:11:32.279 --> 00:11:35.100 just with 2 words and whacking the jelly vapours out of the 243 00:11:35.100 --> 00:11:35.700 doctor's hands. 244 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:39.360 And the wonderful look of Tom's face of being utterly heartbroken 245 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:41.580 that someone has rejected a jelly paper. 246 00:11:41.639 --> 00:11:42.659 It doesn't amazing. 247 00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:44.519 A simple no thank you would have sufficed. 248 00:11:44.580 --> 00:11:48.000 And he spends like the next 20 seconds or so sulking. 249 00:11:48.059 --> 00:11:49.980 Like we listen to you, okay, yes, I'm fine. 250 00:11:50.100 --> 00:11:54.240 He's really hurt We've mentioned the robots. 251 00:11:54.299 --> 00:11:56.100 I love the different classes of robots. 252 00:11:56.159 --> 00:11:56.940 I love that as a kid. 253 00:11:57.000 --> 00:11:58.440 I just thought that was so wonderful. 254 00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:02.879 And, you know, D84. one other D, don't we, I think? 255 00:12:02.940 --> 00:12:04.919 Yeah, there's one D in the robot morgue. 256 00:12:04.980 --> 00:12:05.580 There's one other dump. 257 00:12:05.700 --> 00:12:08.639 And I think so, they've only got the one costume in black. 258 00:12:08.700 --> 00:12:10.679 But again, just the look of them. 259 00:12:10.740 --> 00:12:15.899 And if the theme thing is that uncanny valley thing where they 260 00:12:15.899 --> 00:12:19.259 look enough like people to be off putting, but not convincing. 261 00:12:19.320 --> 00:12:21.120 And we see that, do you know what I mean? 262 00:12:21.179 --> 00:12:23.700 in gaming and VR and stuff these days? 263 00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:27.480 But the way it's done, you know, like it's a beautiful sort of 264 00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:32.100 deco design, but with, you know, lips and eyes and all of those 265 00:12:32.100 --> 00:12:35.639 details, which, you know, the quarks didn't have. 266 00:12:36.059 --> 00:12:38.940 Or Styers robot. 267 00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:39.840 Yeah, yeah. 268 00:12:39.899 --> 00:12:42.960 And so that works thematically, but they just look gorgeous and 269 00:12:42.960 --> 00:12:45.659 those fabulous newsreader voices that they have. 270 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:49.679 You know, I will kill all the others. 271 00:12:49.740 --> 00:12:50.639 You know? 272 00:12:50.700 --> 00:12:52.320 It's what's his face? 273 00:12:52.379 --> 00:12:53.399 So again, what's his name? 274 00:12:53.460 --> 00:12:54.779 The guy who plays SV 7. 275 00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:56.820 Oh, SV7 is Miles Fothergill. 276 00:12:56.940 --> 00:12:58.679 Miles Fothergill. one hell of a name. 277 00:12:58.740 --> 00:13:02.759 And he's, of course, in a Blake 7 episode as well, in the web. 278 00:13:02.820 --> 00:13:05.100 Well, let's not advertise that. 279 00:13:05.159 --> 00:13:09.360 No, but again, he has that same kind of flat, slightly camp 280 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:13.919 newsreader delivery and it really is, it really is terrific. 281 00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:19.919 And of course, then we have Gregory Depolme, who just goes one up 282 00:13:19.919 --> 00:13:23.279 on the name game from Miles Fothergill as D84. 283 00:13:23.460 --> 00:13:26.039 I want a D84 to become a companion. 284 00:13:26.100 --> 00:13:27.299 I know, yeah. 285 00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:31.799 I mean, imagine D84 and Henry Gordon Jago next week. 286 00:13:32.279 --> 00:13:36.659 I think we'd have only worked if D84 was wearing Leila's skin. 287 00:13:37.860 --> 00:13:41.639 Does anybody actually comment that she's wearing those skins at 288 00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:43.860 all in this? 289 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:45.120 No, I don't think they do. 290 00:13:45.179 --> 00:13:48.419 And, I mean, I suppose when you look at their outfits, no one is 291 00:13:48.419 --> 00:13:49.019 in a uniform. 292 00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:53.940 Certainly there are commonalties in design, you know, in the same 293 00:13:53.940 --> 00:13:57.360 way that Todd, you and I are both wearing a polo style shirt. 294 00:13:57.419 --> 00:13:59.039 Mine has a collar. yours is collarless. 295 00:13:59.100 --> 00:14:00.720 You both look lovely, by the way. 296 00:14:00.779 --> 00:14:01.679 Thank you, dear. 297 00:14:01.740 --> 00:14:03.059 So do you. 298 00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:05.700 Your little millennium falcon. 299 00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:09.059 But everyone is sort of going around in their casual gear. 300 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:11.159 So I think that's why they don't kind of bat an eyelid. 301 00:14:11.220 --> 00:14:12.360 It was just like, oh, that's what she wears. 302 00:14:12.419 --> 00:14:13.139 All right, fair enough. 303 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:15.000 And that is a big relief. 304 00:14:15.059 --> 00:14:18.360 I mean, that the attention to costumes and just the attention to 305 00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:21.779 character just lifts this so enormously because it is. 306 00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:23.639 I mean, in a very real sense. 307 00:14:23.700 --> 00:14:25.980 It's very standard plot wise. 308 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:27.240 It is a base under siege. 309 00:14:27.299 --> 00:14:30.000 With the difference that the call is coming from inside the house 310 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:30.480 I guess. 311 00:14:30.539 --> 00:14:33.000 But, you know, it is a story. 312 00:14:33.059 --> 00:14:37.080 It's a bit like next season's horror fang rock where you have a 313 00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:40.200 group of people in a confined space being picked off. 314 00:14:40.259 --> 00:14:40.980 Yeah, yeah. 315 00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:43.379 There's nothing particularly inventive about it. 316 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:44.580 But I don't think it has to be. 317 00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:45.179 No. 318 00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:48.899 And I think it's done, it's well acted, it's well directed, it's 319 00:14:48.899 --> 00:14:49.500 stylish. 320 00:14:49.559 --> 00:14:52.679 You know, all of these elements just come together, you know? 321 00:14:52.740 --> 00:14:54.120 I think it's the characters too. 322 00:14:54.179 --> 00:14:57.899 And I think it is the Angatha Christie influence where, you know 323 00:14:57.899 --> 00:15:00.779 the characters all have these dark secrets, so pools from the 324 00:15:00.779 --> 00:15:04.679 company, you know, Zilda is investigating the death of her brother 325 00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:07.860 you know, Uvanov has this thing in his past as well. 326 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:12.480 And all of that stuff which Agatha Christie uses to sort of 327 00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:15.720 texture her plots and to create red herrings and stuff. 328 00:15:15.779 --> 00:15:19.860 That's all there, but it works so tremendously well because, you 329 00:15:19.860 --> 00:15:23.940 know, this isn't Vashinsky and Dahan and all of those terribly 330 00:15:23.940 --> 00:15:26.519 boring people from Planet of Evil. 331 00:15:26.580 --> 00:15:29.940 It's a bunch of really kind of well drawn, interesting 332 00:15:29.940 --> 00:15:30.960 characters. 333 00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:33.960 You know, they're not subtle, they're not photorealistic or 334 00:15:33.960 --> 00:15:34.559 anything like that. 335 00:15:34.620 --> 00:15:36.539 But they're enough to keep us going. 336 00:15:36.600 --> 00:15:39.120 And, you know, last season, when we were talking about Brain of 337 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:42.899 Morbius, which I had previously not really liked very much, that 338 00:15:42.899 --> 00:15:46.139 benefitted enormously from the same thing, by having just a kind 339 00:15:46.139 --> 00:15:51.360 of group of well drawn, fun, interesting characters interacting 340 00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:51.899 with each other. 341 00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:54.240 And I think it's what Hinchcliffe lacks. 342 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:55.500 Possibly. 343 00:15:55.559 --> 00:15:58.320 There's something that you mentioned then about red herrings. 344 00:15:58.379 --> 00:16:02.039 Were you actually taken in by the red herrings, did you actually 345 00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:05.759 work out as a kid who was actually killing everybody off really 346 00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:07.740 quickly, or did it take a while? 347 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:11.580 Do you know, I can't remember, and watching it now, of course. 348 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:14.580 I mean, partly because we've seen it hundreds of thousands of 349 00:16:14.580 --> 00:16:14.820 times. 350 00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:18.120 But also, it just seems really terrifically obvious. 351 00:16:18.179 --> 00:16:21.059 So they do the trick that they do in the Deadly Assassin, which is 352 00:16:21.059 --> 00:16:25.139 have the character who is the villain whispering for no reason. 353 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:28.559 So in order to disguise who they are. 354 00:16:28.620 --> 00:16:31.740 But they're on that screen with that sort of top of the pops video 355 00:16:31.740 --> 00:16:32.159 affair. 356 00:16:32.220 --> 00:16:34.740 Yeah, and it's not so obviously, dad. 357 00:16:34.799 --> 00:16:39.539 And Dask is, you know, established as the guy in charge of the 358 00:16:39.539 --> 00:16:43.019 robots and he's the guy who thinks like a robot, you know, like in 359 00:16:43.019 --> 00:16:47.940 the very beginning when Chub is tormenting Borg about the massage 360 00:16:47.940 --> 00:16:53.460 the robot massage and tells that hilarious story about the robot 361 00:16:53.460 --> 00:16:54.960 twisting the guy's arm off. 362 00:16:55.019 --> 00:16:56.460 I heard it was a leg. 363 00:16:56.519 --> 00:16:57.539 I love that. 364 00:16:57.720 --> 00:17:00.059 The whole thing is so terrific. 365 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:03.360 He's the one who spoils the fun by being all logical and kind of 366 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:04.440 technical about it all. 367 00:17:04.500 --> 00:17:06.059 So it is a bit of a giveaway. 368 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:10.559 And then later on, you know, like his performing laser surgery on 369 00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:13.380 their brains or something like that in his little cupboard and 370 00:17:13.380 --> 00:17:15.059 he's wearing a bag over his head. 371 00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:19.200 So for no reason other than to prevent the audience knowing who it 372 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:20.700 is. not like anyone's there. 373 00:17:20.759 --> 00:17:24.000 And he doesn't want them to see his, you know, his silver painted 374 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:26.640 face makeup that he needs to put on because he's a villain of the 375 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:26.880 face. 376 00:17:26.940 --> 00:17:31.019 And he's one of those great villains, exactly, who midway between 377 00:17:31.019 --> 00:17:33.420 sort of episode 3 and four, like cancer while we're doing 378 00:17:33.420 --> 00:17:34.019 Blake's. 379 00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:37.019 We should do lots of Blake 7 references because this is Doctor Who 380 00:17:37.019 --> 00:17:37.740 the Blake 7 years. 381 00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:38.940 Yeah, it is. 382 00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:42.960 So just when cancer goes off to do a hair and makeup so she can 383 00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:45.000 come in at the very end to Menace even. 384 00:17:45.059 --> 00:17:49.319 Here, Taryn Capel disappears off to put some green makeup on and 385 00:17:49.319 --> 00:17:49.559 stuff. 386 00:17:49.619 --> 00:17:51.180 The camp old thing. 387 00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:54.539 He will be irresistible when he releases his brothers from bondage 388 00:17:54.539 --> 00:17:55.019 won't he? 389 00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:57.779 so that he can do his final attack. 390 00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:00.960 See, but all of that stuff, silly and cliche, is it is just 391 00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:03.180 doesn't spoil this story in any way. 392 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:04.079 That's true. 393 00:18:04.140 --> 00:18:05.819 Even the ending, which I find quite rushed. 394 00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:11.039 And, you know, it's obvious in that final sequence, Yvana and Tusa 395 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:13.740 you know, getting strangled. 396 00:18:13.799 --> 00:18:16.619 And it's not clear that they're going to live, and it's just an 397 00:18:16.619 --> 00:18:19.079 overdub from Tom saying, oh, yes, they'll recover. 398 00:18:19.140 --> 00:18:21.720 I remember as a kid sort of missing that line and thinking how 399 00:18:21.720 --> 00:18:22.859 they dared or are they alive? 400 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:25.380 And then we don't even see them at the end and suddenly, you know 401 00:18:25.380 --> 00:18:27.539 there's a line that, you know, they're waiting for rescue or 402 00:18:27.539 --> 00:18:27.900 whatever. 403 00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:30.420 I think the ending's a bit rushed and I would have liked a scene 404 00:18:30.420 --> 00:18:33.420 with them with... 405 00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:34.440 Just something, you know? 406 00:18:34.500 --> 00:18:36.960 I just think, conversely, at the other end of the story, at the 407 00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:40.259 beginning of the story, we do see Leela in the Tartars, we've got 408 00:18:40.259 --> 00:18:44.220 time there, you know, with her yo-yo, and then what I think is 409 00:18:44.220 --> 00:18:44.880 just wonderful. 410 00:18:44.940 --> 00:18:48.119 The explanation about why the TARDIS is bigger on the inside than 411 00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:48.539 the outside. 412 00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:51.119 This is one of, which obviously I think has to be a Bob Holmes 413 00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:51.420 thing. 414 00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:54.660 He's already tried to address earlier in the season speaking 415 00:18:54.660 --> 00:18:55.380 different languages. 416 00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:59.099 And so here we've got the explanation that really is not an 417 00:18:59.099 --> 00:18:59.759 explanation. 418 00:18:59.819 --> 00:19:03.720 And you sit down and you think, well, I think it's really great 419 00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:07.259 visually and it makes no real sense, but it makes sense and you 420 00:19:07.259 --> 00:19:07.740 accept it. 421 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:10.380 And I love that in science fiction when you get these explanations 422 00:19:10.380 --> 00:19:13.740 that you accept, but they really don't necessarily work, but we 423 00:19:13.740 --> 00:19:15.960 don't have to hear about mini chlorines and some sort of huge 424 00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:19.319 technical jargon that's going to lock you into kingdom come about 425 00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:20.940 what the concept is here. 426 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:22.859 It's like, I always accepted it. 427 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:23.940 Yes, that makes perfect sense. 428 00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:27.000 You know, it can be that far away and yet still inside, but, well 429 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:28.019 hey, I'm not going to think about it. 430 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:28.619 I accept it. 431 00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:31.980 It's such a sparklingly good scene, that one too, because it's got 432 00:19:31.980 --> 00:19:36.059 the 9 times out of 10 thing where the doctor gradually revises the 433 00:19:36.059 --> 00:19:39.539 number of times that he can that he can pilot the TARDIS correctly 434 00:19:39.539 --> 00:19:42.299 down from 9 times out of 10 to 5 times out of 10. 435 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:45.359 Then you've got that line about if people see that you don't want 436 00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:46.799 to hurt them, they never hurt you. 437 00:19:46.859 --> 00:19:48.779 And then he says 9 times out of 10. 438 00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:53.759 It's really like the dialogue, and maybe it's homes, but Boucher 439 00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:57.660 you know, again, in Blake 7, takes all of these sort of fairly 440 00:19:57.660 --> 00:20:02.880 bland terry nation scripts and just makes the character into play 441 00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:06.059 again, between sort of bitchy characters who don't like each other 442 00:20:06.059 --> 00:20:09.779 very much, which we saw at the end of face of evil as well, I 443 00:20:09.779 --> 00:20:09.960 think. 444 00:20:10.019 --> 00:20:10.740 Yes, yes. 445 00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:13.619 It's something that he does really, really well. 446 00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:16.680 And so that whole thing is just really enjoyable. 447 00:20:16.740 --> 00:20:18.000 I'm with you. 448 00:20:18.059 --> 00:20:21.779 I think this is one of the absolute greats of classic Doctor Who. 449 00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:26.579 And it irks me a little bit to follow received fan wisdom on 450 00:20:26.579 --> 00:20:26.819 this. 451 00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:29.400 So I will make up for it next week. 452 00:20:29.460 --> 00:20:33.359 But I think this is really truly something special. 453 00:20:33.420 --> 00:20:37.920 You know, I compared this, like, to my favourite stories for the 454 00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:38.460 past 2 years. 455 00:20:38.519 --> 00:20:41.519 Like, I've had to take seats of doom from last season and arc in 456 00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:44.460 space, and it's like, you know, here are these 3 stories. 457 00:20:44.519 --> 00:20:46.680 What am I going to put as my penny called doctor? 458 00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:46.920 Yeah. 459 00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:48.539 I think all 3 of them are up there. 460 00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:52.380 In a way, it's a shame that Philip Hinchcliffe has moved on at the 461 00:20:52.380 --> 00:20:52.859 end of this season. 462 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:55.559 I mean, I'm with you, Nathan, in that I do not think he is the 463 00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:57.539 beal and end all, or rather his era. 464 00:20:57.599 --> 00:20:59.819 You know, I can't put all the decisions down to him. 465 00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:05.099 But I do believe that at the end of this season, he's just hitting 466 00:21:05.099 --> 00:21:11.099 his stride because in this season we have really a run of quite 467 00:21:11.099 --> 00:21:11.700 good stories. 468 00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:14.279 I mean, Deadly Assassin has its problems, hand of fear has its 469 00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:14.940 problems. 470 00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:18.960 Marcus Mandraga is a great historical face of evil is brilliant. 471 00:21:19.019 --> 00:21:19.680 This is brilliant. 472 00:21:19.740 --> 00:21:22.079 I know we're going to talk about talons next week. 473 00:21:22.140 --> 00:21:22.619 Nathan. 474 00:21:22.619 --> 00:21:24.539 I'm in Nathan's category. 475 00:21:24.839 --> 00:21:29.519 But yeah, in a way, it's a shame he's moved on because with this 476 00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:34.319 representing some of his best work, and it addresses the problems 477 00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:37.619 with women in the last couple of seasons, in my opinion, it 478 00:21:37.619 --> 00:21:39.539 addresses the problem with violence as well. 479 00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:43.859 It presents violence as I'm far more responsible in appropriate 480 00:21:43.859 --> 00:21:46.380 manner than, say, Pyramids of Mars or Deadly Assassin. 481 00:21:46.440 --> 00:21:47.640 I mean, as we've explored. 482 00:21:47.700 --> 00:21:50.819 It's not a terribly complex plot, and it's not terribly complex 483 00:21:50.819 --> 00:21:53.519 characters, but it proves you don't necessarily need complex 484 00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:56.279 things, but you need the things you do to be well done. 485 00:21:56.339 --> 00:21:58.440 And I think that's where this story succeeds. 486 00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:01.140 Yes, but I don't necessarily think that's Philip Hinchcliff's 487 00:22:01.140 --> 00:22:01.740 influence at all. 488 00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:03.720 I think that's Chris Boucher as a writer. 489 00:22:03.779 --> 00:22:06.660 And what he brings to the table as opposed to relying on Robert 490 00:22:06.660 --> 00:22:09.599 Holmes and Robert Holmes vision of things, which we've had for the 491 00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:10.500 last 2.5 years. 492 00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:14.400 So, you know, as much as you say, you think Philip's hitting his 493 00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:17.759 stride, I think he's been and peaked and it is probably time to 494 00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:17.940 go. 495 00:22:18.180 --> 00:22:22.319 The characters thing is the Hinchcliffe weakness, there just 496 00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:25.259 aren't that many memorable characters, and there's these endless 497 00:22:25.259 --> 00:22:28.859 stories, with small guest casts, where the people are just not 498 00:22:28.859 --> 00:22:29.700 very interesting. 499 00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:34.019 And, you know, like, people like the horror, and it's well made. 500 00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:36.000 It's got a budget, do you know what I mean? 501 00:22:36.059 --> 00:22:38.579 Like, the stories generally look good, they generally hang 502 00:22:38.579 --> 00:22:39.420 together. 503 00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:42.960 You've got Tom and Liz and then Tom and Louise, and, you know, both 504 00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:45.000 of those are tremendously great pairings. 505 00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:47.220 You know everything is going well. 506 00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:55.380 But, you know, I think that what's important is interesting guest 507 00:22:55.380 --> 00:22:59.339 characters, and we mention seeds of doom, and it's got Scorbi. 508 00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:00.000 Do you know what I mean? 509 00:23:00.059 --> 00:23:02.700 who I think is terrifically memorable and a great performance. 510 00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:07.559 I think Solon, Philip Maddox, Solon in Brain of Morbius is another 511 00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:08.160 great one. 512 00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:12.119 Kate Grenville's character, in Brain of Morbius, you know, like 513 00:23:12.119 --> 00:23:13.200 they're great. 514 00:23:13.259 --> 00:23:16.559 But then you look at stories like Hand of Fear, where there are no 515 00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:18.119 characters that are very interesting. 516 00:23:18.180 --> 00:23:21.359 You're struggling to find an interesting character in Planet of 517 00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:21.779 Evil. 518 00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:25.200 I mean, again, the reason we like Genesis of the Daleks is Nida 519 00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:26.519 Danfrost, you know what I mean? 520 00:23:26.579 --> 00:23:32.279 No one's tuning in for Ronson or Carvel, or, you know, um, so, so 521 00:23:32.279 --> 00:23:37.140 characters are really important, and we'll see next week, how, you 522 00:23:37.140 --> 00:23:40.500 know, the presence of really interesting characters really lifts 523 00:23:40.500 --> 00:23:42.180 the story in fan estimations. 524 00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:46.980 But all too often, Hinchcliffe is just content to have men in 525 00:23:46.980 --> 00:23:51.420 uniforms or a guest cast of 4 people or something like that. 526 00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:57.119 And I just don't think that the production values and the scary 527 00:23:57.119 --> 00:24:00.720 premises and stuff are enough to make it great, Doctor Who. 528 00:24:00.779 --> 00:24:02.579 I will agree with Brendan. 529 00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:06.180 In fact, that Philippine strip, as a producer, is not willing to 530 00:24:06.180 --> 00:24:07.980 accept shoddy production. 531 00:24:08.039 --> 00:24:08.460 Yeah. 532 00:24:08.460 --> 00:24:11.880 You know, and he will overspend and do whatever and stand up to 533 00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:13.920 whoever to ensure that it looks quality. 534 00:24:13.980 --> 00:24:18.539 You know, poor Graham Williams has to, you know, reap the benefits 535 00:24:18.539 --> 00:24:22.259 of those rewards next year where, you know, he has to accept less 536 00:24:22.259 --> 00:24:24.900 than, you know, acceptable standards, in my opinion. 537 00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:25.680 Yeah, yeah. 538 00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:29.460 And even though I think Pat is a producer, what he wants out of 539 00:24:29.460 --> 00:24:34.799 the characters and the show is probably better, you know, um, in 540 00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:37.079 the long term than what Hinchcliffe is delivering. 541 00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:41.460 On that side of things, I think, um, Philip Pinchcliffe, you know 542 00:24:41.460 --> 00:24:43.980 if he had stayed in the role, I don't think we would have 543 00:24:43.980 --> 00:24:48.240 necessarily had the, the look and the feel of what's about to 544 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:49.380 eventuate, you know? 545 00:24:49.740 --> 00:24:52.859 I'm just thinking back to something you said a few minutes ago 546 00:24:52.859 --> 00:24:55.799 Todd, about the difference between Henchcliff and Boucher. 547 00:24:55.859 --> 00:25:00.720 And Robots of Death was one of the 1st Doctor Who stories released 548 00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:01.500 on DVD. 549 00:25:01.500 --> 00:25:03.960 And it was the 1st one, but at least, with what we would consider 550 00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:07.140 today to be standard special features, such as commentary. 551 00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:10.619 And the 1st commentary it had, because it's been rereleased since 552 00:25:10.619 --> 00:25:12.900 was Philip Hinchcliffe and Chris Boucher. 553 00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:16.019 It's a really boring commentary, isn't it? 554 00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:18.599 It's really boring, but there's a very telling moment in it when 555 00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:20.579 they're talking about the origins of the character, Leila. 556 00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:21.599 Oh, okay. 557 00:25:21.660 --> 00:25:27.420 And of course, one of the bases for her character is Layla 558 00:25:27.420 --> 00:25:28.019 Khalid. 559 00:25:28.380 --> 00:25:33.599 And Philip Hinchcliffe, I believe, says the terrorist Layla Khalid 560 00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:36.059 and Boucher jumps in with freedom fighter. 561 00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:37.980 Yeah. 562 00:25:37.980 --> 00:25:41.460 And, you know, I don't know enough about the background of the 563 00:25:41.460 --> 00:25:45.359 real person to comment either way on that, but they both, there's 564 00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:48.240 a tense moment and they sort of agree to disagree, and I think 565 00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:50.579 it's Boucher actually says, well, one person's terrorist is 566 00:25:50.579 --> 00:25:52.019 another person's freedom fighter. 567 00:25:52.140 --> 00:25:56.160 And they move on talking about how wonderful Louise Jameson is 568 00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:58.559 because that's something everyone... everyone can agree on that. 569 00:25:58.619 --> 00:26:02.640 But yeah, that's one of the commentaries where they decide 570 00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:05.400 thereafter that they have to have an actor in the commentary. 571 00:26:05.460 --> 00:26:07.019 Otherwise it's just too boring. 572 00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:08.940 Either that or Toby Haydoke. 573 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:09.720 Yeah. 574 00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:13.079 Because Toby Haydock chairs some very good 60s commentaries which 575 00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:14.700 are entirely production staff. 576 00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:17.339 And they are actually hilarious. 577 00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:24.660 Like Sonya Markham and Doug, the Vision Mixer and people like... 578 00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:25.740 I forget his surname. 579 00:26:25.799 --> 00:26:27.119 I'm sorry if you're listening, Doug. 580 00:26:27.240 --> 00:26:28.619 We talked about the design. 581 00:26:28.680 --> 00:26:29.400 Do you know what I mean? 582 00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:31.680 And Doctor Who Often falls down when it comes to models. 583 00:26:31.740 --> 00:26:33.180 And these models are not terrific. 584 00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:34.079 Do you know what I mean? 585 00:26:34.140 --> 00:26:38.039 But for once they've learned that if you shoot the model from low 586 00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:43.200 down, that it looks big, you know, so rather than seeing an aerial 587 00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:46.500 view of this sort of tiny mechanical thing going across the sand 588 00:26:46.500 --> 00:26:49.859 because we shoot it from, and that opening shot, there's a 589 00:26:49.859 --> 00:26:53.579 wonderful opening tracking shot, where the sand minor goes past 590 00:26:53.579 --> 00:26:57.359 the camera, and there's these rocks that fall down, and they 591 00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:01.319 follow the motion of the camera and continue to motivate the 592 00:27:01.319 --> 00:27:01.619 shot. 593 00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:06.119 And I think every time that that appears, it works, it does work 594 00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:06.660 really well. 595 00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:09.240 And we've seen some terrible models over the years. 596 00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:12.299 But I think, you know, this is quite well directed. 597 00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:13.200 Yeah. 598 00:27:13.259 --> 00:27:15.539 I also want to talk about the bridge set. 599 00:27:15.660 --> 00:27:22.079 I've been watching Wonder Woman. 1970s, a TV series of varying 600 00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:22.380 quality. 601 00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:26.460 And in the show, every, when it begins, every in like 6 or 12 602 00:27:26.460 --> 00:27:29.519 episodes, they have this concrete dungeon set. 603 00:27:29.579 --> 00:27:34.079 But as it goes along, the concrete bunker suddenly becomes every 604 00:27:34.079 --> 00:27:37.019 like, you know, 4 episodes, every 3 episodes, and we're just 605 00:27:37.019 --> 00:27:39.119 redressing where the door is, and this sort of thing. 606 00:27:39.180 --> 00:27:42.839 So here in this story, I'm watching, I'm going, look, this bridge 607 00:27:42.839 --> 00:27:45.359 set, this sort of design of it with the, sort of, the stairs up 608 00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:46.740 I've sort of seen this somewhere before. 609 00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:49.319 And then I kind of thought, oh, my goodness. 610 00:27:49.380 --> 00:27:52.799 It's like Planet of Evil, when you've got the bridge set going up 611 00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:56.400 to their plastic, you know, thing, and then I've been watching 612 00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:57.000 head a bit. 613 00:27:57.059 --> 00:27:59.819 And then I was I was sitting down going, I'm what, I'm trying to 614 00:27:59.819 --> 00:28:00.599 get through this terrible story. 615 00:28:00.660 --> 00:28:01.859 Underworld. 616 00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:02.339 Correct. 617 00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:05.819 And I'm going, oh, my goodness, you've got this sort of A frame up 618 00:28:05.819 --> 00:28:07.619 to the bridge set, which they use twice, of course. 619 00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:12.779 And then, I'm sitting watching some sort of pirate captain and 620 00:28:12.779 --> 00:28:15.539 somebody going to jump off a plate, and I'm going, hang on, here's 621 00:28:15.539 --> 00:28:18.539 another, like, a frame set up to the top. 622 00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:19.259 So watch out for that. 623 00:28:19.319 --> 00:28:21.779 I'm just going to say something that does pop up a few times. 624 00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:25.980 It's really much better in this story than it is in Planet of 625 00:28:25.980 --> 00:28:26.279 Evil. 626 00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:28.920 I mean, this is a story that outshines planet evil in every 627 00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:32.460 respect, but even the sense that they're just sort of shamelessly 628 00:28:32.460 --> 00:28:36.119 reusing are dressed in such a way as to reflect that sort of deco 629 00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:38.519 opulent sort of thing that they've got going. 630 00:28:38.579 --> 00:28:41.460 My point was that suddenly it was something that I just recognised 631 00:28:41.460 --> 00:28:43.740 and suddenly it popped up a few times and go, okay. 632 00:28:43.799 --> 00:28:48.960 Now, if this was modern Doctor Who, the split level set would be 633 00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:51.900 the end of season villain, because it's been used so much in 634 00:28:51.900 --> 00:28:52.140 between. 635 00:28:52.259 --> 00:28:53.819 Ooh, sound of drums. 636 00:28:55.019 --> 00:28:58.980 But I will, I will say, you know, with sort of updating the look 637 00:28:58.980 --> 00:29:00.779 of Planet of Evil. 638 00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:03.480 It's amazing what you can do with just beige and tape. 639 00:29:03.539 --> 00:29:04.440 Wow. 640 00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:05.460 Because they're the main colours. 641 00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:07.740 I think if my life has a motto, that's it, really. 642 00:29:19.799 --> 00:29:23.039 Well, that's all the time we have on the sand miner. 643 00:29:23.099 --> 00:29:24.000 It's getting out just in time. 644 00:29:24.059 --> 00:29:26.519 None of us have been hideously murdered, thankfully. 645 00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:29.099 And also, none of us have had hands thrown at us. 646 00:29:29.220 --> 00:29:30.599 I noticed we failed to mention that. 647 00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:36.359 We will be back next week to discuss fan favourite, but possibly 648 00:29:36.359 --> 00:29:37.440 not a favourite in this room. 649 00:29:37.500 --> 00:29:40.319 Talons of Wang Chiang, so please do join us for that. 650 00:29:40.380 --> 00:29:44.579 Until then, like us on Facebook and share us there. 651 00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:48.539 Follow us on Twitter and retweet us and also find us on iTunes and 652 00:29:48.539 --> 00:29:49.259 maybe review us. 653 00:29:49.259 --> 00:29:51.240 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 654 00:29:51.359 --> 00:29:52.079 Good night. 655 00:29:52.140 --> 00:29:52.740 See you soon. 656 00:29:54.359 --> 00:29:58.980 That was Flight to Entirety with Todd Beelby, Nathan Buffley, and 657 00:29:58.980 --> 00:29:59.759 Brendan Jones. 658 00:29:59.819 --> 00:30:04.259 This episode, Midi Glorians, was recorded on the 22nd of August 659 00:30:04.259 --> 00:30:04.980 2015. 660 00:30:05.160 --> 00:30:08.099 The next episode will be released on October 18th. 661 00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:11.819 This episode is respectfully dedicated to the memory of Derek Ware 662 00:30:11.819 --> 00:30:15.180 photo ranger, stuntman, and guest artist on Doctor Who's 1st 10 663 00:30:15.180 --> 00:30:15.420 years. 664 00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:21.539 Apropos of nothing here. 665 00:30:21.660 --> 00:30:23.039 We watched End of Time this week. 666 00:30:23.099 --> 00:30:24.539 We finished off tenant. 667 00:30:24.539 --> 00:30:28.859 And it turns out that most of what I dislike of tenant is just in 668 00:30:28.859 --> 00:30:29.700 those 2 episodes. 669 00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:32.460 I thought I really dislike tenant, but actually the rest of his 670 00:30:32.460 --> 00:30:34.380 the rest of his era. 671 00:30:34.440 --> 00:30:34.920 I love him. 672 00:30:34.980 --> 00:30:37.500 I was really pleasantly surprised. 673 00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:41.819 So, um, how did it how did it go down? 674 00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:44.279 Oh, end of time is utterly stupid. 675 00:30:44.339 --> 00:30:47.819 It's one of those things like if you read the writer's tale and 676 00:30:47.819 --> 00:30:51.299 you can see how often Russell is just absolutely close to the line 677 00:30:51.299 --> 00:30:53.099 and desperate and flailing and stuff. 678 00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:53.700 Yeah. 679 00:30:53.700 --> 00:30:57.180 You know, despite being a complete genius. 680 00:30:58.319 --> 00:31:02.579 The end of time is just that, you know, it's the worst example of 681 00:31:02.579 --> 00:31:04.079 that, where it's a draft. 682 00:31:04.140 --> 00:31:09.000 You know, it's full of set pieces and stuff, but it's not really a 683 00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:09.359 story. 684 00:31:09.420 --> 00:31:10.440 Yeah, exactly. 685 00:31:10.500 --> 00:31:12.359 And who the hell is Naismith and who the hell cares? 686 00:31:12.420 --> 00:31:13.619 Yeah, yeah, it's terrible. 687 00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:16.680 It does have great bits though, and the cliffhang is spectacular. 688 00:31:16.740 --> 00:31:19.259 Yes is truly, truly tremendous. 689 00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:20.339 What's a cliffhanger? 690 00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:22.440 Everyone in the world gets transformed into... 691 00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:23.519 Oh, yes, yes, that is good. 692 00:31:23.579 --> 00:31:25.559 Especially people mid-coitus. 693 00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:28.980 Well, there you go.