WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:18:19 1 00:00:28.559 --> 00:00:36.840 Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast, who, once we're released from bondage, will be irresistible. 2 00:00:36.899 --> 00:00:37.560 I'm Brendan. 3 00:00:37.619 --> 00:00:38.280 I'm Nathan. 4 00:00:38.340 --> 00:00:41.219 And I feel like I've swallowed traces of glucanol. 5 00:00:42.479 --> 00:00:45.899 It's time for the Chris Boucher. 6 00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:48.719 Or is it Agatha Christie Classic, The Robots of Death? 7 00:00:57.780 --> 00:01:02.520 This is... close to my favourite Doctor 2 story of all time. 8 00:01:02.579 --> 00:01:03.719 I'm gonna say this. 9 00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:07.500 I love Pamela Salem Pilot 2s. 10 00:01:07.560 --> 00:01:09.180 She's fantastic. 11 00:01:09.239 --> 00:01:11.640 She was my kindergarten teacher, Mrs Gauge. 12 00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:14.159 She was my first class teacher, Mrs. Marx. 13 00:01:14.219 --> 00:01:16.379 She was my third class teacher, Mrs. Fletcher. 14 00:01:16.439 --> 00:01:24.120 I adored her in all of her incarnations and every time I watched her and for me, she just makes this show. 15 00:01:24.180 --> 00:01:25.620 I just I'm just in love with her. 16 00:01:25.680 --> 00:01:32.219 This is really unusual for a Hingecliff story in that there are two women in it, and they get to speak and they have characters. 17 00:01:32.280 --> 00:01:41.219 And I think there's more than that, actually, because so often, like, I'm really starting to get irritated with a Hingecliffe area and the adulation that it receives. 18 00:01:41.579 --> 00:01:53.040 Normally, the guest cast in a Hinchcliffe story are a bunch of men in uniforms, with no actual personalities to speak of beyond, you know, the performances of the actors. 19 00:01:53.159 --> 00:01:59.400 But here, you know, everyone is dressed sort of lavishly with this sort of fantastic makeup. 20 00:01:59.459 --> 00:02:05.700 And, you know, in episode one, you get that scene on the sand minor where they're all kind of talking and stuff. 21 00:02:05.819 --> 00:02:12.719 And very, very economically Boucher establishes their character, so you get Chub teasing Vorg. 22 00:02:12.780 --> 00:02:15.060 Vorg, I want to say, Borg. 23 00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:24.360 Borg, sounds Swedish, and you get, you know, Uvanov being terribly driven, and everyone being kind of dismissive of Uvanov, and it's all done really well. desk is very logical. 24 00:02:24.419 --> 00:02:28.919 And all of the characters are so well delineated and so well defined. 25 00:02:29.039 --> 00:02:30.840 And it makes such a change. 26 00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:36.180 It's great to see, like, with such a large cast, there are very few weak links. 27 00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:39.960 I mean, I think Zelda is possibly the weakest link in terms of actors. 28 00:02:40.020 --> 00:02:49.500 I think the director keeps her under control quite well, initial scenes, it's just her breakdown and crying before she dies, that is really quite diabolical. 29 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:50.219 Yeah. 30 00:02:50.219 --> 00:02:55.680 But, you know, back to like the costuming and the makeup and all that art deco stuff. 31 00:02:55.740 --> 00:03:04.740 Like imagine if this was done like, I don't know, Planet of Evil with, you know, base sets and sterile corridors and like just nondescript uniforms. 32 00:03:04.800 --> 00:03:09.900 I mean, that is part of the character of this story, that this society has this about it. 33 00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:10.620 Yeah. 34 00:03:10.680 --> 00:03:14.219 And it works thematically too, because it's a revolution, isn't it? 35 00:03:14.280 --> 00:03:17.460 And so the people, the humans that we see are upper class. 36 00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:18.419 Do you know what I mean? 37 00:03:18.479 --> 00:03:21.240 And they have slaves and servitors who they order around. 38 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:31.139 So straight away, they're all lying on couches in absolute luxury playing games of chess and sort of lying languidly and sort of firing hilarious bolmos at each other. 39 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:35.879 But they're also massively dismissive of the robots. 40 00:03:35.939 --> 00:03:39.180 And even tooths who we absolutely adore. 41 00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:47.699 I think it's in episode 3, where 7 comes to her quarters and stuff, and she's just really rude to him. like massively, absolutely. 42 00:03:47.759 --> 00:03:54.360 But classism is a big part of the story because you've got the different classes of robots for a start. 43 00:03:54.419 --> 00:04:03.599 But you also have different classes within the human characters, and that's established early on as well when they start going on about the founding 20 families. 44 00:04:03.659 --> 00:04:04.979 Yeah, yeah. 45 00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:11.699 And something I really like about Russell Hunter's performance is in moments of extremist, his accent slips. 46 00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:16.680 In episode 4, when they're going robot hunting... 47 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:17.759 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 48 00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:19.560 Or Liverpool, doesn't he? 49 00:04:19.620 --> 00:04:20.819 I think it's deliberate. 50 00:04:20.879 --> 00:04:25.019 And he has already said he's not from one of the founding families. 51 00:04:25.079 --> 00:04:29.339 I think he is a small town, a small town boy made good. 52 00:04:29.399 --> 00:04:31.139 Every planet has a Liverpool. 53 00:04:31.199 --> 00:04:32.459 Every planet has Liverpool. 54 00:04:32.519 --> 00:04:38.759 So he's developed this accent and then he slips back to what he once was a small kid. 55 00:04:38.819 --> 00:04:39.959 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 56 00:04:40.019 --> 00:04:51.720 Yeah, and I think it's just a little detail that was probably worked out between writer and between writer, director and actor because the line that he's not one of the 20 families is in there. 57 00:04:51.899 --> 00:04:54.120 But the accent is with the performance. 58 00:04:54.899 --> 00:05:05.040 Yeah, no, I love all of those touches, you know, throughout the story and I also love the fact that Boucher is writing for his character of Leila again. 59 00:05:05.100 --> 00:05:08.699 And there's just so just wonderful stuff from Louise Jemison in here. 60 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:16.019 And I think we forget, like, it's her 2nd time round, and it's just the way she moves and just different lines. 61 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:21.420 He gives like creepy mechanical men and, you know, they do not bleed or whatever, you know, things like that. 62 00:05:21.480 --> 00:05:24.120 You know, it's just all of wonderful little moments. 63 00:05:24.180 --> 00:05:28.259 It's sort of this unusual thing where it's written very much for her. 64 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:30.180 I mean, he creates the character. 65 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:32.160 He writes her first eight episodes. 66 00:05:32.220 --> 00:05:37.860 We'll get that later with Mel, where Pip and Jane Baker write a lot of initial episodes. 67 00:05:37.920 --> 00:05:45.480 But not to mention Johnny Byrne. and Nissa because she's so well written in Arc of Infinity. 68 00:05:45.540 --> 00:05:46.379 Yeah, brilliant. 69 00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:55.740 So all of the stuff about the robophobia and that uncanny valley that the robots in habit where they kind of look human, but they don't feel human. 70 00:05:55.740 --> 00:06:06.600 And the stuff where Poole's body language gives him away, the importance of body language to just the sort of, you know, as one of the themes of the story plays right into Leila's strengths. 71 00:06:06.660 --> 00:06:21.060 And so, um, rather than being stupid, which Leila will very quickly become spoiler alert for next week's episode, she's very smart and very competent but in a different field from the doctor. 72 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:22.019 Yeah. 73 00:06:22.439 --> 00:06:35.579 And the doctor is still being quite dismissive of her intuition because Leila feels something is about to go wrong before the sand minor crashes at the cliffhanger of episode two. 74 00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:36.959 And the doctor dismisses it. 75 00:06:37.019 --> 00:06:42.480 But when it comes true, his 1st reaction is, don't say I told you so. 76 00:06:42.540 --> 00:06:44.399 So he begins to accept it. 77 00:06:44.459 --> 00:06:52.860 But he is a rat, if you like, a rational intelligence, whereas hers is an intuitive intelligence. 78 00:06:52.920 --> 00:06:59.100 Can I just sidetrack us briefly and say, why does the Zan minor crash at the end of episode two? 79 00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:03.060 I think Desk sabotages it and then fixes it immediately? 80 00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:03.839 Yes. 81 00:07:03.899 --> 00:07:04.800 Right. 82 00:07:04.860 --> 00:07:07.379 To throw suspicion off himself. 83 00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:08.459 Okay. 84 00:07:08.519 --> 00:07:12.360 Yes, maybe he senses that we're 23 minutes into the episode. 85 00:07:12.420 --> 00:07:16.800 Well, you know, there is that constraint we have to construct that we have to live with. 86 00:07:16.860 --> 00:07:25.680 Look, I'm going to criticise one performance in this story, and it's one that a lot of people, university, universally love, and that has to be cool. 87 00:07:25.740 --> 00:07:29.579 The problems that you have back in arc in space with the commander. 88 00:07:29.639 --> 00:07:31.439 I have the same problem with his performance here. 89 00:07:31.500 --> 00:07:36.120 I think it's just too over the top after his robophobia breakdown. 90 00:07:36.180 --> 00:07:39.060 And as a kid, I really, really loathe the performance. 91 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:50.939 Even now, I mean, I can see why he has, he's got literally 3 scenes to go from I've got a robophobia thing to complete an utter breakdown, but I just kind of, you know, as a kid, I just kind of went, oh, look, what is this? 92 00:07:51.000 --> 00:07:52.019 Why is it so over the top? 93 00:07:52.079 --> 00:08:03.420 And I really disliked David Collings performance so much is that when he suddenly turned up in Modern Undead, I recognised his face and went, oh, no, not him. 94 00:08:03.540 --> 00:08:07.860 And so straight away I was totally against that performance in that character. 95 00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:10.920 So even now when I watch it, I can see what he's doing. 96 00:08:10.980 --> 00:08:15.899 And I'm glad that the character is then sidetracked and sort of, you know, is gone by that point. 97 00:08:15.959 --> 00:08:16.620 Right? 98 00:08:16.680 --> 00:08:17.939 His performance up to that point. 99 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:19.379 I don't have a problem with. 100 00:08:19.439 --> 00:08:21.420 But then I just don't like it. 101 00:08:21.480 --> 00:08:22.560 I just think it's too much. 102 00:08:22.620 --> 00:08:25.680 I think that's a pretty reasonable assessment, actually. 103 00:08:25.740 --> 00:08:27.720 It is kind of over the top. 104 00:08:27.779 --> 00:08:35.879 And, you know, David Collings has got a great voice and a great presence and all of that sort of thing, but it is a bit actorly that breakdown, isn't it? 105 00:08:35.940 --> 00:08:37.139 It's not very convincing. 106 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:42.779 And even earlier on, and, you know, generally I like David Collins's performances, I love him in Sapphire and Steel. 107 00:08:42.840 --> 00:08:51.659 But even earlier on, there's one line that he says that always sticks in my head as, I don't quite believe that. when he's explaining about Zelda. 108 00:08:51.720 --> 00:08:53.399 And it's just a line. 109 00:08:53.460 --> 00:08:55.080 The dead man was her brother. 110 00:08:55.440 --> 00:08:58.679 There's just something about the way he delivers it. 111 00:08:58.740 --> 00:09:06.179 I can't quite put my finger on it, but it's, it's, It's like he's making sure the back row in the theatre hears it. 112 00:09:07.139 --> 00:09:12.240 I'm so relieved that we're all on the same page with this because I thought we weren't going to be, so yeah. 113 00:09:12.779 --> 00:09:16.440 As I say, you know, generally I like him, but I think there are some deficiencies. 114 00:09:16.500 --> 00:09:35.940 Where, and I would argue that his deficiencies in his performance are actually worse than the deficiencies of Zilda, as played by Tanya Rogers, because Zilda is kind of ropey for a line, and really, when she gets on the comms and shouts, you did it, Ivanov, you filthy murderer. 115 00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:36.480 I like that. 116 00:09:36.539 --> 00:09:38.159 It's just the crying idea. 117 00:09:38.220 --> 00:09:39.120 Yeah, the crying is bad. 118 00:09:39.179 --> 00:09:47.639 The interaction between her and Ivanov is great where he's like really, really close to her face and like he clearly fancies her. 119 00:09:47.700 --> 00:09:48.240 Do you know what I mean? 120 00:09:48.299 --> 00:09:48.960 He really does. 121 00:09:49.080 --> 00:09:51.899 No, I think that's the strength of his acting as opposed to hers. 122 00:09:51.960 --> 00:09:54.899 Like I actually think in a number of those scenes where I watch her. 123 00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:59.100 I think she's struggling to maintain the same quality as the rest of the cast. 124 00:09:59.159 --> 00:10:01.799 That's just my interpretation of it. 125 00:10:01.860 --> 00:10:05.039 I just kind of think you're not really that good and you're just there. 126 00:10:05.100 --> 00:10:07.259 That's how I feel when I watch a performance. 127 00:10:07.379 --> 00:10:08.940 What do you think about Brian Croucher? 128 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:13.320 I actually really like Brian Croucher, and it's funny. 129 00:10:13.379 --> 00:10:20.279 It's like, He's the young virile Brian Croucher before he goes to Gooless. 130 00:10:20.340 --> 00:10:24.960 I think there's a, we know how they age rapidly and sort of degenerate like overnight. 131 00:10:25.019 --> 00:10:30.299 So between this and Blake 7, like, it's like Cordaro and Blake 7. 132 00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:33.779 Like, season one, young Fitborough, season four. 133 00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:34.980 Oh my goodness, what the hell has happened? 134 00:10:35.100 --> 00:10:36.899 He's eaten a lot of space pies. 135 00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:38.820 But yes, I think he's great. 136 00:10:38.879 --> 00:10:41.519 Yeah, I think he's very good hair as well. 137 00:10:41.580 --> 00:10:45.899 And I think he's much better than he is as Travis, simply because... terrible as Travis, isn't he? 138 00:10:45.960 --> 00:10:48.480 Yeah, but again, we've got we've got the classism here. 139 00:10:48.539 --> 00:10:53.279 And Borg is clearly not one of the founding 20 families as well. 140 00:10:53.340 --> 00:11:00.000 Like Chubb's from one of the founding 20 families, but Borg clearly isn't because, you know, Borg's a bit rough and Cockney and whatnot. 141 00:11:00.059 --> 00:11:07.679 And that's precisely what didn't work for Travis because Travis is kind of meant to be like Hannibal Lecter. you know, he's meant to be cultured. 142 00:11:07.740 --> 00:11:09.840 It was Stephen here. 143 00:11:09.899 --> 00:11:12.120 Stephen Griff was terribly posh. 144 00:11:12.179 --> 00:11:12.659 Yeah, exactly. 145 00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:18.120 And then suddenly it's, then if I'm guilty of murder, of mass murder, then so are all of you. 146 00:11:18.179 --> 00:11:19.799 You know, he's terrible. 147 00:11:19.860 --> 00:11:22.019 Whereas that really suits Borg. 148 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:25.799 And especially that wonderful scene where the doctor offers him a jelly baby. 149 00:11:25.799 --> 00:11:35.700 And he has a reaction which is anger, fear and disgust all in one, just with 2 words and whacking the jelly vapours out of the doctor's hands. 150 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:41.580 And the wonderful look of Tom's face of being utterly heartbroken that someone has rejected a jelly paper. 151 00:11:41.639 --> 00:11:42.659 It doesn't amazing. 152 00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:44.519 A simple no thank you would have sufficed. 153 00:11:44.580 --> 00:11:48.000 And he spends like the next 20 seconds or so sulking. 154 00:11:48.059 --> 00:11:49.980 Like we listen to you, okay, yes, I'm fine. 155 00:11:50.100 --> 00:11:54.240 He's really hurt We've mentioned the robots. 156 00:11:54.299 --> 00:11:56.100 I love the different classes of robots. 157 00:11:56.159 --> 00:11:56.940 I love that as a kid. 158 00:11:57.000 --> 00:11:58.440 I just thought that was so wonderful. 159 00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:02.879 And, you know, D84. one other D, don't we, I think? 160 00:12:02.940 --> 00:12:04.919 Yeah, there's one D in the robot morgue. 161 00:12:04.980 --> 00:12:05.580 There's one other dump. 162 00:12:05.700 --> 00:12:08.639 And I think so, they've only got the one costume in black. 163 00:12:08.700 --> 00:12:10.679 But again, just the look of them. 164 00:12:10.740 --> 00:12:19.259 And if the theme thing is that uncanny valley thing where they look enough like people to be off putting, but not convincing. 165 00:12:19.320 --> 00:12:21.120 And we see that, do you know what I mean? 166 00:12:21.179 --> 00:12:23.700 in gaming and VR and stuff these days? 167 00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:35.639 But the way it's done, you know, like it's a beautiful sort of deco design, but with, you know, lips and eyes and all of those details, which, you know, the quarks didn't have. 168 00:12:36.059 --> 00:12:38.940 Or Styers robot. 169 00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:39.840 Yeah, yeah. 170 00:12:39.899 --> 00:12:45.659 And so that works thematically, but they just look gorgeous and those fabulous newsreader voices that they have. 171 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:49.679 You know, I will kill all the others. 172 00:12:49.740 --> 00:12:50.639 You know? 173 00:12:50.700 --> 00:12:52.320 It's what's his face? 174 00:12:52.379 --> 00:12:53.399 So again, what's his name? 175 00:12:53.460 --> 00:12:54.779 The guy who plays SV 7. 176 00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:56.820 Oh, SV7 is Miles Fothergill. 177 00:12:56.940 --> 00:12:58.679 Miles Fothergill. one hell of a name. 178 00:12:58.740 --> 00:13:02.759 And he's, of course, in a Blake 7 episode as well, in the web. 179 00:13:02.820 --> 00:13:05.100 Well, let's not advertise that. 180 00:13:05.159 --> 00:13:13.919 No, but again, he has that same kind of flat, slightly camp newsreader delivery and it really is, it really is terrific. 181 00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:23.279 And of course, then we have Gregory Depolme, who just goes one up on the name game from Miles Fothergill as D84. 182 00:13:23.460 --> 00:13:26.039 I want a D84 to become a companion. 183 00:13:26.100 --> 00:13:27.299 I know, yeah. 184 00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:31.799 I mean, imagine D84 and Henry Gordon Jago next week. 185 00:13:32.279 --> 00:13:36.659 I think we'd have only worked if D84 was wearing Leila's skin. 186 00:13:37.860 --> 00:13:43.860 Does anybody actually comment that she's wearing those skins at all in this? 187 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:45.120 No, I don't think they do. 188 00:13:45.179 --> 00:13:49.019 And, I mean, I suppose when you look at their outfits, no one is in a uniform. 189 00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:57.360 Certainly there are commonalties in design, you know, in the same way that Todd, you and I are both wearing a polo style shirt. 190 00:13:57.419 --> 00:13:59.039 Mine has a collar. yours is collarless. 191 00:13:59.100 --> 00:14:00.720 You both look lovely, by the way. 192 00:14:00.779 --> 00:14:01.679 Thank you, dear. 193 00:14:01.740 --> 00:14:03.059 So do you. 194 00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:05.700 Your little millennium falcon. 195 00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:09.059 But everyone is sort of going around in their casual gear. 196 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:11.159 So I think that's why they don't kind of bat an eyelid. 197 00:14:11.220 --> 00:14:12.360 It was just like, oh, that's what she wears. 198 00:14:12.419 --> 00:14:13.139 All right, fair enough. 199 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:15.000 And that is a big relief. 200 00:14:15.059 --> 00:14:21.779 I mean, that the attention to costumes and just the attention to character just lifts this so enormously because it is. 201 00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:23.639 I mean, in a very real sense. 202 00:14:23.700 --> 00:14:25.980 It's very standard plot wise. 203 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:27.240 It is a base under siege. 204 00:14:27.299 --> 00:14:30.480 With the difference that the call is coming from inside the house, I guess. 205 00:14:30.539 --> 00:14:33.000 But, you know, it is a story. 206 00:14:33.059 --> 00:14:40.200 It's a bit like next season's horror fang rock where you have a group of people in a confined space being picked off. 207 00:14:40.259 --> 00:14:40.980 Yeah, yeah. 208 00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:43.379 There's nothing particularly inventive about it. 209 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:44.580 But I don't think it has to be. 210 00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:45.179 No. 211 00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:49.500 And I think it's done, it's well acted, it's well directed, it's stylish. 212 00:14:49.559 --> 00:14:52.679 You know, all of these elements just come together, you know? 213 00:14:52.740 --> 00:14:54.120 I think it's the characters too. 214 00:14:54.179 --> 00:15:07.860 And I think it is the Angatha Christie influence where, you know, the characters all have these dark secrets, so pools from the company, you know, Zilda is investigating the death of her brother, you know, Uvanov has this thing in his past as well. 215 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:15.720 And all of that stuff which Agatha Christie uses to sort of texture her plots and to create red herrings and stuff. 216 00:15:15.779 --> 00:15:26.519 That's all there, but it works so tremendously well because, you know, this isn't Vashinsky and Dahan and all of those terribly boring people from Planet of Evil. 217 00:15:26.580 --> 00:15:30.960 It's a bunch of really kind of well drawn, interesting characters. 218 00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:34.559 You know, they're not subtle, they're not photorealistic or anything like that. 219 00:15:34.620 --> 00:15:36.539 But they're enough to keep us going. 220 00:15:36.600 --> 00:15:51.899 And, you know, last season, when we were talking about Brain of Morbius, which I had previously not really liked very much, that benefitted enormously from the same thing, by having just a kind of group of well drawn, fun, interesting characters interacting with each other. 221 00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:54.240 And I think it's what Hinchcliffe lacks. 222 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:55.500 Possibly. 223 00:15:55.559 --> 00:15:58.320 There's something that you mentioned then about red herrings. 224 00:15:58.379 --> 00:16:07.740 Were you actually taken in by the red herrings, did you actually work out as a kid who was actually killing everybody off really quickly, or did it take a while? 225 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:11.580 Do you know, I can't remember, and watching it now, of course. 226 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:14.820 I mean, partly because we've seen it hundreds of thousands of times. 227 00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:18.120 But also, it just seems really terrifically obvious. 228 00:16:18.179 --> 00:16:25.139 So they do the trick that they do in the Deadly Assassin, which is have the character who is the villain whispering for no reason. 229 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:28.559 So in order to disguise who they are. 230 00:16:28.620 --> 00:16:32.159 But they're on that screen with that sort of top of the pops video affair. 231 00:16:32.220 --> 00:16:34.740 Yeah, and it's not so obviously, dad. 232 00:16:34.799 --> 00:16:54.960 And Dask is, you know, established as the guy in charge of the robots and he's the guy who thinks like a robot, you know, like in the very beginning when Chub is tormenting Borg about the massage, the robot massage and tells that hilarious story about the robot twisting the guy's arm off. 233 00:16:55.019 --> 00:16:56.460 I heard it was a leg. 234 00:16:56.519 --> 00:16:57.539 I love that. 235 00:16:57.720 --> 00:17:00.059 The whole thing is so terrific. 236 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:04.440 He's the one who spoils the fun by being all logical and kind of technical about it all. 237 00:17:04.500 --> 00:17:06.059 So it is a bit of a giveaway. 238 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:15.059 And then later on, you know, like his performing laser surgery on their brains or something like that in his little cupboard and he's wearing a bag over his head. 239 00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:20.700 So for no reason other than to prevent the audience knowing who it is. not like anyone's there. 240 00:17:20.759 --> 00:17:26.880 And he doesn't want them to see his, you know, his silver painted face makeup that he needs to put on because he's a villain of the face. 241 00:17:26.940 --> 00:17:34.019 And he's one of those great villains, exactly, who midway between sort of episode 3 and four, like cancer while we're doing Blake's. 242 00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:37.740 We should do lots of Blake 7 references because this is Doctor Who, the Blake 7 years. 243 00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:38.940 Yeah, it is. 244 00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:45.000 So just when cancer goes off to do a hair and makeup so she can come in at the very end to Menace even. 245 00:17:45.059 --> 00:17:49.559 Here, Taryn Capel disappears off to put some green makeup on and stuff. 246 00:17:49.619 --> 00:17:51.180 The camp old thing. 247 00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:55.019 He will be irresistible when he releases his brothers from bondage, won't he? 248 00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:57.779 so that he can do his final attack. 249 00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:03.180 See, but all of that stuff, silly and cliche, is it is just doesn't spoil this story in any way. 250 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:04.079 That's true. 251 00:18:04.140 --> 00:18:05.819 Even the ending, which I find quite rushed. 252 00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:13.740 And, you know, it's obvious in that final sequence, Yvana and Tusa, you know, getting strangled. 253 00:18:13.799 --> 00:18:19.079 And it's not clear that they're going to live, and it's just an overdub from Tom saying, oh, yes, they'll recover. 254 00:18:19.140 --> 00:18:22.859 I remember as a kid sort of missing that line and thinking how they dared or are they alive? 255 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:27.900 And then we don't even see them at the end and suddenly, you know, there's a line that, you know, they're waiting for rescue or whatever. 256 00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:33.420 I think the ending's a bit rushed and I would have liked a scene with them with... 257 00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:34.440 Just something, you know? 258 00:18:34.500 --> 00:18:44.880 I just think, conversely, at the other end of the story, at the beginning of the story, we do see Leela in the Tartars, we've got time there, you know, with her yo-yo, and then what I think is just wonderful. 259 00:18:44.940 --> 00:18:48.539 The explanation about why the TARDIS is bigger on the inside than the outside. 260 00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:51.420 This is one of, which obviously I think has to be a Bob Holmes thing. 261 00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:55.380 He's already tried to address earlier in the season speaking different languages. 262 00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:59.759 And so here we've got the explanation that really is not an explanation. 263 00:18:59.819 --> 00:19:07.740 And you sit down and you think, well, I think it's really great visually and it makes no real sense, but it makes sense and you accept it. 264 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:20.940 And I love that in science fiction when you get these explanations that you accept, but they really don't necessarily work, but we don't have to hear about mini chlorines and some sort of huge technical jargon that's going to lock you into kingdom come about what the concept is here. 265 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:22.859 It's like, I always accepted it. 266 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:23.940 Yes, that makes perfect sense. 267 00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:28.019 You know, it can be that far away and yet still inside, but, well, hey, I'm not going to think about it. 268 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:28.619 I accept it. 269 00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:42.299 It's such a sparklingly good scene, that one too, because it's got the 9 times out of 10 thing where the doctor gradually revises the number of times that he can that he can pilot the TARDIS correctly down from 9 times out of 10 to 5 times out of 10. 270 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:46.799 Then you've got that line about if people see that you don't want to hurt them, they never hurt you. 271 00:19:46.859 --> 00:19:48.779 And then he says 9 times out of 10. 272 00:19:48.960 --> 00:20:09.960 It's really like the dialogue, and maybe it's homes, but Boucher, you know, again, in Blake 7, takes all of these sort of fairly bland terry nation scripts and just makes the character into play, again, between sort of bitchy characters who don't like each other very much, which we saw at the end of face of evil as well, I think. 273 00:20:10.019 --> 00:20:10.740 Yes, yes. 274 00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:13.619 It's something that he does really, really well. 275 00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:16.680 And so that whole thing is just really enjoyable. 276 00:20:16.740 --> 00:20:18.000 I'm with you. 277 00:20:18.059 --> 00:20:21.779 I think this is one of the absolute greats of classic Doctor Who. 278 00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:26.819 And it irks me a little bit to follow received fan wisdom on this. 279 00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:29.400 So I will make up for it next week. 280 00:20:29.460 --> 00:20:33.359 But I think this is really truly something special. 281 00:20:33.420 --> 00:20:38.460 You know, I compared this, like, to my favourite stories for the past 2 years. 282 00:20:38.519 --> 00:20:44.460 Like, I've had to take seats of doom from last season and arc in space, and it's like, you know, here are these 3 stories. 283 00:20:44.519 --> 00:20:46.680 What am I going to put as my penny called doctor? 284 00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:46.920 Yeah. 285 00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:48.539 I think all 3 of them are up there. 286 00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:52.859 In a way, it's a shame that Philip Hinchcliffe has moved on at the end of this season. 287 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:57.539 I mean, I'm with you, Nathan, in that I do not think he is the beal and end all, or rather his era. 288 00:20:57.599 --> 00:20:59.819 You know, I can't put all the decisions down to him. 289 00:20:59.880 --> 00:21:11.700 But I do believe that at the end of this season, he's just hitting his stride because in this season we have really a run of quite good stories. 290 00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:14.940 I mean, Deadly Assassin has its problems, hand of fear has its problems. 291 00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:18.960 Marcus Mandraga is a great historical face of evil is brilliant. 292 00:21:19.019 --> 00:21:19.680 This is brilliant. 293 00:21:19.740 --> 00:21:22.079 I know we're going to talk about talons next week. 294 00:21:22.140 --> 00:21:22.619 Nathan. 295 00:21:22.619 --> 00:21:24.539 I'm in Nathan's category. 296 00:21:24.839 --> 00:21:39.539 But yeah, in a way, it's a shame he's moved on because with this representing some of his best work, and it addresses the problems with women in the last couple of seasons, in my opinion, it addresses the problem with violence as well. 297 00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:46.380 It presents violence as I'm far more responsible in appropriate manner than, say, Pyramids of Mars or Deadly Assassin. 298 00:21:46.440 --> 00:21:47.640 I mean, as we've explored. 299 00:21:47.700 --> 00:21:56.279 It's not a terribly complex plot, and it's not terribly complex characters, but it proves you don't necessarily need complex things, but you need the things you do to be well done. 300 00:21:56.339 --> 00:21:58.440 And I think that's where this story succeeds. 301 00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:01.740 Yes, but I don't necessarily think that's Philip Hinchcliff's influence at all. 302 00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:03.720 I think that's Chris Boucher as a writer. 303 00:22:03.779 --> 00:22:10.500 And what he brings to the table as opposed to relying on Robert Holmes and Robert Holmes vision of things, which we've had for the last 2.5 years. 304 00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:17.940 So, you know, as much as you say, you think Philip's hitting his stride, I think he's been and peaked and it is probably time to go. 305 00:22:18.180 --> 00:22:29.700 The characters thing is the Hinchcliffe weakness, there just aren't that many memorable characters, and there's these endless stories, with small guest casts, where the people are just not very interesting. 306 00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:34.019 And, you know, like, people like the horror, and it's well made. 307 00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:36.000 It's got a budget, do you know what I mean? 308 00:22:36.059 --> 00:22:39.420 Like, the stories generally look good, they generally hang together. 309 00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:45.000 You've got Tom and Liz and then Tom and Louise, and, you know, both of those are tremendously great pairings. 310 00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:47.220 You know everything is going well. 311 00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:59.339 But, you know, I think that what's important is interesting guest characters, and we mention seeds of doom, and it's got Scorbi. 312 00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:00.000 Do you know what I mean? 313 00:23:00.059 --> 00:23:02.700 who I think is terrifically memorable and a great performance. 314 00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:08.160 I think Solon, Philip Maddox, Solon in Brain of Morbius is another great one. 315 00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:13.200 Kate Grenville's character, in Brain of Morbius, you know, like they're great. 316 00:23:13.259 --> 00:23:18.119 But then you look at stories like Hand of Fear, where there are no characters that are very interesting. 317 00:23:18.180 --> 00:23:21.779 You're struggling to find an interesting character in Planet of Evil. 318 00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:26.519 I mean, again, the reason we like Genesis of the Daleks is Nida, Danfrost, you know what I mean? 319 00:23:26.579 --> 00:23:42.180 No one's tuning in for Ronson or Carvel, or, you know, um, so, so, characters are really important, and we'll see next week, how, you know, the presence of really interesting characters really lifts the story in fan estimations. 320 00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:51.420 But all too often, Hinchcliffe is just content to have men in uniforms or a guest cast of 4 people or something like that. 321 00:23:51.480 --> 00:24:00.720 And I just don't think that the production values and the scary premises and stuff are enough to make it great, Doctor Who. 322 00:24:00.779 --> 00:24:02.579 I will agree with Brendan. 323 00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:07.980 In fact, that Philippine strip, as a producer, is not willing to accept shoddy production. 324 00:24:08.039 --> 00:24:08.460 Yeah. 325 00:24:08.460 --> 00:24:13.920 You know, and he will overspend and do whatever and stand up to whoever to ensure that it looks quality. 326 00:24:13.980 --> 00:24:24.900 You know, poor Graham Williams has to, you know, reap the benefits of those rewards next year where, you know, he has to accept less than, you know, acceptable standards, in my opinion. 327 00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:25.680 Yeah, yeah. 328 00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:37.079 And even though I think Pat is a producer, what he wants out of the characters and the show is probably better, you know, um, in the long term than what Hinchcliffe is delivering. 329 00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:49.380 On that side of things, I think, um, Philip Pinchcliffe, you know, if he had stayed in the role, I don't think we would have necessarily had the, the look and the feel of what's about to eventuate, you know? 330 00:24:49.740 --> 00:24:55.799 I'm just thinking back to something you said a few minutes ago, Todd, about the difference between Henchcliff and Boucher. 331 00:24:55.859 --> 00:25:01.500 And Robots of Death was one of the 1st Doctor Who stories released on DVD. 332 00:25:01.500 --> 00:25:07.140 And it was the 1st one, but at least, with what we would consider today to be standard special features, such as commentary. 333 00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:12.900 And the 1st commentary it had, because it's been rereleased since, was Philip Hinchcliffe and Chris Boucher. 334 00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:16.019 It's a really boring commentary, isn't it? 335 00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:20.579 It's really boring, but there's a very telling moment in it when they're talking about the origins of the character, Leila. 336 00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:21.599 Oh, okay. 337 00:25:21.660 --> 00:25:28.019 And of course, one of the bases for her character is Layla Khalid. 338 00:25:28.380 --> 00:25:36.059 And Philip Hinchcliffe, I believe, says the terrorist Layla Khalid, and Boucher jumps in with freedom fighter. 339 00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:37.980 Yeah. 340 00:25:37.980 --> 00:25:52.019 And, you know, I don't know enough about the background of the real person to comment either way on that, but they both, there's a tense moment and they sort of agree to disagree, and I think it's Boucher actually says, well, one person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighter. 341 00:25:52.140 --> 00:25:58.559 And they move on talking about how wonderful Louise Jameson is because that's something everyone... everyone can agree on that. 342 00:25:58.619 --> 00:26:05.400 But yeah, that's one of the commentaries where they decide thereafter that they have to have an actor in the commentary. 343 00:26:05.460 --> 00:26:07.019 Otherwise it's just too boring. 344 00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:08.940 Either that or Toby Haydoke. 345 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:09.720 Yeah. 346 00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:14.700 Because Toby Haydock chairs some very good 60s commentaries which are entirely production staff. 347 00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:17.339 And they are actually hilarious. 348 00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:24.660 Like Sonya Markham and Doug, the Vision Mixer and people like... 349 00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:25.740 I forget his surname. 350 00:26:25.799 --> 00:26:27.119 I'm sorry if you're listening, Doug. 351 00:26:27.240 --> 00:26:28.619 We talked about the design. 352 00:26:28.680 --> 00:26:29.400 Do you know what I mean? 353 00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:31.680 And Doctor Who Often falls down when it comes to models. 354 00:26:31.740 --> 00:26:33.180 And these models are not terrific. 355 00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:34.079 Do you know what I mean? 356 00:26:34.140 --> 00:27:01.619 But for once they've learned that if you shoot the model from low down, that it looks big, you know, so rather than seeing an aerial view of this sort of tiny mechanical thing going across the sand, because we shoot it from, and that opening shot, there's a wonderful opening tracking shot, where the sand minor goes past the camera, and there's these rocks that fall down, and they follow the motion of the camera and continue to motivate the shot. 357 00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:06.660 And I think every time that that appears, it works, it does work really well. 358 00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:09.240 And we've seen some terrible models over the years. 359 00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:12.299 But I think, you know, this is quite well directed. 360 00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:13.200 Yeah. 361 00:27:13.259 --> 00:27:15.539 I also want to talk about the bridge set. 362 00:27:15.660 --> 00:27:22.380 I've been watching Wonder Woman. 1970s, a TV series of varying quality. 363 00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:29.519 And in the show, every, when it begins, every in like 6 or 12 episodes, they have this concrete dungeon set. 364 00:27:29.579 --> 00:27:39.119 But as it goes along, the concrete bunker suddenly becomes every like, you know, 4 episodes, every 3 episodes, and we're just redressing where the door is, and this sort of thing. 365 00:27:39.180 --> 00:27:46.740 So here in this story, I'm watching, I'm going, look, this bridge set, this sort of design of it with the, sort of, the stairs up, I've sort of seen this somewhere before. 366 00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:49.319 And then I kind of thought, oh, my goodness. 367 00:27:49.380 --> 00:27:57.000 It's like Planet of Evil, when you've got the bridge set going up to their plastic, you know, thing, and then I've been watching head a bit. 368 00:27:57.059 --> 00:28:00.599 And then I was I was sitting down going, I'm what, I'm trying to get through this terrible story. 369 00:28:00.660 --> 00:28:01.859 Underworld. 370 00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:02.339 Correct. 371 00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:07.619 And I'm going, oh, my goodness, you've got this sort of A frame up to the bridge set, which they use twice, of course. 372 00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:18.539 And then, I'm sitting watching some sort of pirate captain and somebody going to jump off a plate, and I'm going, hang on, here's another, like, a frame set up to the top. 373 00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:19.259 So watch out for that. 374 00:28:19.319 --> 00:28:21.779 I'm just going to say something that does pop up a few times. 375 00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:26.279 It's really much better in this story than it is in Planet of Evil. 376 00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:38.519 I mean, this is a story that outshines planet evil in every respect, but even the sense that they're just sort of shamelessly reusing are dressed in such a way as to reflect that sort of deco opulent sort of thing that they've got going. 377 00:28:38.579 --> 00:28:43.740 My point was that suddenly it was something that I just recognised and suddenly it popped up a few times and go, okay. 378 00:28:43.799 --> 00:28:52.140 Now, if this was modern Doctor Who, the split level set would be the end of season villain, because it's been used so much in between. 379 00:28:52.259 --> 00:28:53.819 Ooh, sound of drums. 380 00:28:55.019 --> 00:29:00.779 But I will, I will say, you know, with sort of updating the look of Planet of Evil. 381 00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:03.480 It's amazing what you can do with just beige and tape. 382 00:29:03.539 --> 00:29:04.440 Wow. 383 00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:05.460 Because they're the main colours. 384 00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:07.740 I think if my life has a motto, that's it, really. 385 00:29:19.799 --> 00:29:23.039 Well, that's all the time we have on the sand miner. 386 00:29:23.099 --> 00:29:24.000 It's getting out just in time. 387 00:29:24.059 --> 00:29:26.519 None of us have been hideously murdered, thankfully. 388 00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:29.099 And also, none of us have had hands thrown at us. 389 00:29:29.220 --> 00:29:30.599 I noticed we failed to mention that. 390 00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:37.440 We will be back next week to discuss fan favourite, but possibly not a favourite in this room. 391 00:29:37.500 --> 00:29:40.319 Talons of Wang Chiang, so please do join us for that. 392 00:29:40.380 --> 00:29:44.579 Until then, like us on Facebook and share us there. 393 00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:49.259 Follow us on Twitter and retweet us and also find us on iTunes and maybe review us. 394 00:29:49.259 --> 00:29:51.240 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 395 00:29:51.359 --> 00:29:52.079 Good night. 396 00:29:52.140 --> 00:29:52.740 See you soon. 397 00:29:54.359 --> 00:29:59.759 That was Flight to Entirety with Todd Beelby, Nathan Buffley, and Brendan Jones. 398 00:29:59.819 --> 00:30:04.980 This episode, Midi Glorians, was recorded on the 22nd of August, 2015. 399 00:30:05.160 --> 00:30:08.099 The next episode will be released on October 18th. 400 00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:15.420 This episode is respectfully dedicated to the memory of Derek Ware, photo ranger, stuntman, and guest artist on Doctor Who's 1st 10 years. 401 00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:21.539 Apropos of nothing here. 402 00:30:21.660 --> 00:30:23.039 We watched End of Time this week. 403 00:30:23.099 --> 00:30:24.539 We finished off tenant. 404 00:30:24.539 --> 00:30:29.700 And it turns out that most of what I dislike of tenant is just in those 2 episodes. 405 00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:34.380 I thought I really dislike tenant, but actually the rest of his the rest of his era. 406 00:30:34.440 --> 00:30:34.920 I love him. 407 00:30:34.980 --> 00:30:37.500 I was really pleasantly surprised. 408 00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:41.819 So, um, how did it how did it go down? 409 00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:44.279 Oh, end of time is utterly stupid. 410 00:30:44.339 --> 00:30:53.099 It's one of those things like if you read the writer's tale and you can see how often Russell is just absolutely close to the line and desperate and flailing and stuff. 411 00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:53.700 Yeah. 412 00:30:53.700 --> 00:30:57.180 You know, despite being a complete genius. 413 00:30:58.319 --> 00:31:04.079 The end of time is just that, you know, it's the worst example of that, where it's a draft. 414 00:31:04.140 --> 00:31:09.359 You know, it's full of set pieces and stuff, but it's not really a story. 415 00:31:09.420 --> 00:31:10.440 Yeah, exactly. 416 00:31:10.500 --> 00:31:12.359 And who the hell is Naismith and who the hell cares? 417 00:31:12.420 --> 00:31:13.619 Yeah, yeah, it's terrible. 418 00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:16.680 It does have great bits though, and the cliffhang is spectacular. 419 00:31:16.740 --> 00:31:19.259 Yes is truly, truly tremendous. 420 00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:20.339 What's a cliffhanger? 421 00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:22.440 Everyone in the world gets transformed into... 422 00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:23.519 Oh, yes, yes, that is good. 423 00:31:23.579 --> 00:31:25.559 Especially people mid-coitus. 424 00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:28.980 Well, there you go.