WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:22:10

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Ladies and gentlemen, we're finally there, the end of season two.

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All right.

3
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No, we're not done yet.

4
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What?

5
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Well, this will be the end of summer.

6
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Oh, okay.

7
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So we can't go home or anything.

8
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We can't go to the map now.

9
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No, not yet.

10
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We will be going to...

11
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Well, Nathan, you won't be going to the pub because you don't go to the pub, do you?

12
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No, that would be very wrong.

13
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No, that's right.

14
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So I'm going to shut up and let you introduce the episode.

15
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Sorry.

16
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Right.

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Yes, as I was saying before, I was so mildly, accurately interrupting.

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This is the last of our podcasts for Doctor Who season two, where we are going to be discussing the Space Museum, the chase and the time meddler.

19
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Oh, 3 very important stories in the history of Doctor Who.

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So I'm Brendan.

21
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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Richard.

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And we're going to start straight away by jumping a time track.

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There it is.

25
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And, uh, Richard doing some foreshadowing there and starting off on the Space Museum, which, um, it's a very interesting story because much like an unearthly child.

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It's sort of 2 stories in one.

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It's a 1st episode where lots of interesting and strange things happen.

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And then the next 3 episodes take on a far more traditional action adventure approach.

29
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Nathan is shaking his head violently, but as this is my story, I'm going to keep talking now.

30
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That doesn't really work on a podcast.

31
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That's why I narrated it.

32
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Okay, I could hold up a sign maybe.

33
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Yeah, yeah.

34
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I think a sign would be very well in a podcast.

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I'm just going to talk about the 1st episode for now and then we'll talk a bit more about that and then we'll talk about the thing at a whole...

36
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The 1st episode is absolutely marvellous.

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You know, you've got that scene in the TARDIS where everyone's frozen and suddenly that all their clothes end up back in the wardrobe, which I just thought was brilliant. really naughty on radio.

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Not too real.

39
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They do have other clothes.

40
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Especially seeing as Barbara's observation is, Doctor, we've got our clothes on.

41
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Well, I should hope so, dear.

42
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Does work on audio, yeah.

43
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Well, funnily enough, one of the Planets Scara audios we did, and the line that got cut was halfway through a scene, I mean, my character actually declares, good God, I'm naked.

44
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That was an ad lib, which got cut out, sadly.

45
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We have that bit.

46
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And we find out later that the reason that they're closed are back in the wardrobe and they've got their regular clothes on is because they've arrived out of sequence so they didn't get to see you or remember putting their clothes on.

47
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Yeah, it's the kind of thing that makes Mel's timeline in trial of a time lord look perfectly straightforward.

48
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That was a very Mervin Pinfield thing, wasn't it?

49
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Oh, I'm not criticising it. the side jump thing.

50
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I'm not criticising it.

51
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It's a great way to straight away introduce that all is not right.

52
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But in a non-threatening way.

53
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Well, it throws up a puzzle.

54
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Yeah, acoustic kind of thing, but with...

55
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It's curiously, completely unfazed by it.

56
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Well, it saved us a lot of time.

57
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I think he's still suffering oxygen starvation from the water, so we just snorted all the way through that and the crusades. and now he's like, woo, it's all the way.

58
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Just asphyxia.

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I do want, it's a little thing, but I really want to, and I'm going to do this a lot more later on.

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I'm going to praise Maureen O'Brien for her performance in that opening scene where she drops a glass of water and just comes in and I've never seen someone in the show up until this point, do such a good job of silent acting where she just gives the water to the doctor and just sort of stares at it.

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Like she's waiting for something to happen.

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You know, it's not fear.

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It's genuine sort of is it going to break apart again, which when you consider it's currently being held up to the doctor's face and she's watching for it to shatter. slightly sinister.

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Um, and then you get the very eerie 1st episode, which, um, has a lot in common with Stephen King's later story, the Langolias, the idea that of these people landing in a place which should be crowded, but is deserted in this case a museum in the case of Stephen King and Airport.

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Um, and coming to the realisation that they are out of sync with the time frame, which is also what happens in the Langoliers, which I think Stephen King wrote in the late 70s and was adapted for television in the 90s.

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I remember that.

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Did it have scary, creepy monsters that hate people?

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It did.

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Spoiler alert, sorry.

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And I, um, Stephen King a lot like, um, Matt Grooning and another writer I can't think of at the moment.

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Joe Michael Strazinsky have all said that they did watch Doctor Who.

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And not necessarily that it was an influence on their writing, but it did inform their writing.

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So Stephen King may have seen this at some point or that it's a bit more difficult with the black and white stories.

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Uh, and so we have a very, very eerie 1st episode.

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Very well punctuated by great use of stock music and also the fact that we just follow the regulars around, you know, we see the aliens on the planet, but we don't get an inkling into their world until episode two.

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I mean, that's not that uncommon in this period, is it?

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The keys of mariner starts that way, sort of.

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It takes a while to get to Arbitan anyway.

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And the Daleks is just the regulars and that sort of thing.

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Like starting in that, you know, where they're exploring and working out where they are and it's just the regulars interacting.

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That's unlike that. you know, and that, that is one of the things that we've lost in the, in the shortening of the...

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And giving the time to do it.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, most episodes is often so strong in this season.

85
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Yeah.

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Where Planet does the same thing.

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It's all just...

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Yeah, they just wander around...

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It gives them a lot of time to interact and chat and stuff.

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Melt ties.

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That's right.

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And we get we get that wonderful subversive moment because of course Dalek Mania was at its peak.

93
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I think I think it was around this time that the 1st movie Doctor Who and the Daleks came out. certainly was.

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So they come around a corner and there's Dalek and Ian Barbara and the doctor just sort of recoil in horror and Vicky's like, oh.

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Oh, hello.

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Oh, he's a bit cute, isn't he?

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Oh, so cute.

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Which has never seen one.

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No, no, she's the supermod 60s girl, even though she's from the future of 60s.

100
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She just too cool for Dr. D. No, it's just that it's a great piece of Popeye.

101
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She has said several times that history is not her strong suit.

102
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She focussed on sciences.

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Because she says, you know, I learned astrophysics, so I learned chemistry.

104
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I learned biology.

105
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She never mentioned...

106
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Yeah, when she was five.

107
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By taking a pill. 10 whole minutes a day.

108
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But that kind of works that Vicky's heard of them, but she doesn't know what they look like.

109
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It's kind of like...

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I've I've heard of Genghis Khan.

111
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Yeah, they wouldn't be, didn't they?

112
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Yes, I wouldn't know exactly what he would like.

113
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Well, you should subscribe to his YouTube channel.

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Oh, dear.

115
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Well, I've seen the Monty Python version.

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I think that's good enough for me.

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So, yep, wonderful, uh, trippy, strange experimental 1st episode, uh, followed by a 3 a 3 episode adventure story, which I still think is very good, but I'm going to throw it to you guys.

118
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Well, I actually think that I think that, you know, that's the standard way of discussing this story is that it's that it's one really inventive episode followed by 3 rather plotting episodes.

119
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But I do think that the issue introduced by the 1st episode is, like runs all the way through, the rest of it, and it is, it's that deterministic thing.

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It's to what degree do we have the ability to affect our own future by our action.

121
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So there's a kind of going to go all Richard here on this one.

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There's a kind of sort of existential thing going on here.

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And so it looks dramatic in its expression.

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I was actually wondering when German expression.

125
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I was determined not to kill the German expression. joke, the way that I'm slowly killing the joke about monsters turning up in historical story.

126
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Okay, so you've got they've got a predetermined fate.

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The episode, the story looks like it's going to head towards them ending up in a case.

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So all of their efforts for the rest of the story are about avoiding that.

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And so the 3 of them end up kind of separating and taking quite different approaches in order to do that.

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So Barbara gets locked in a room and gets to rescue someone, the doctor actually fails and ends up looks like he's going to end up in the case.

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Ian what gets a gun and tries to rescue the doctor or something sort of tiresome.

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And then Vicky, you know, like you're obviously going to want to talk about Vicky fomenting revolution because she's just truly superb.

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And those are 3 different approaches that look like they're going to end up, you know, they all are sort of quite promising, but it all goes horribly wrong and they all end up in the preparation room together and it really looks like, you know, they've reached the wall.

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There is absolutely no way of escaping their fate.

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So all of that determinism thing is set up in episode one in that strange way.

136
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It sort of sets up a puzzle.

137
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Or, you know, in a way that we're kind of unused to Doctor Who operating.

138
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It's sort of a higher concept sort of thing, a sort of Star Trek kind of thing in a way and not a Doctor Who thing.

139
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And I think that all of that works very well.

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And I think the whole thing is charmingly short circuited by the fact that Barbara is wearing her cardigan in the museum case.

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And then they unravel her cardigan in order to find their way around the museum.

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So clearly...

143
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But doesn't that mean that they've changed history and they escape from their fate of ending up inside the thing?

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So I'm choosing to not see that as a production gap.

145
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I'm deciding that that is, in fact, a deliberate precursor to the fact that they do, in fact, escape spoiler alert and they don't end up as exhibits in museum cases.

146
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So, yeah.

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I do think if it was made down, that would actually be made the plot point.

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Like at the end.

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Well, I suppose it will be it will be Peter Capellio now, but if it had been made in the Matt Smith story, Matt Smith would turn around and say, no, you can't process us and put us in cases.

150
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Why not?

151
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Because I've just destroyed my bowtie.

152
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The doctor, speaking of which, the doctor's really massively doctor-ish in this. with the, you know, does not give a crap.

153
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Yeah, yeah.

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And he's dismissive of low boss is like in the chair sort of thing being experimented on and ask questions.

155
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He sees the penny farming, which as a fan of the prisoner.

156
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The whole walruses?

157
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That whole scene for me is actually much more cream Monty Python.

158
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Richard Lester and the Beatles hard day's night.

159
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That's showing how mod and funky the doctor is.

160
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It really is the coolest thing that anyone could possibly be in that situation.

161
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And it is it is very doctor-ish. is very much how the doctor will end up, you know.

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And it's very swifty.

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The doctor is a Jonathan Swift character.

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He's a bit of Gulliver.

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And then he goes to these odd places and has a rhyme, intellectual...

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Can I have a loud thing?

167
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I'm not going to talk about Jonathan Swift.

168
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He annoys me.

169
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He's on my enemies list with C.S. Lewis.

170
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Really?

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Well, in that case, I will circuit break here.

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I also love that. that scene with Billy.

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And the thing I really love about it is Billy in the Victorian bathing suit.

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Yes.

175
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And the fact that the doctor sort of sees that and goes, oh, like, yes, I remember that that weekend in Brighton. fantastic.

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And actually, having a look at my notes here, Rob noticed the cardigan as well.

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More cardigan stuff in the chase. in the chase coming up.

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Yes.

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But what you were saying there about everyone takes different roots.

180
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Everyone takes roots that we've already seen on the show.

181
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Like someone, someone always gets captured, but it's turned on its head this time because it's a doctor getting captured.

182
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Yeah, yeah.

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Barbara turns her usual thing on the head because it's like, okay, she's getting gas, but actually, it's the freedom fighter who collapses and Barbara gets to rescue it.

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She almost shrugs and rolls her eyes.

185
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She picks him up, like, fine, I'll carry you out of here.

186
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Ian actually just does the thing that Ian does, which is he grabs a weapon and goes for the brute approach.

187
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He is surprisingly dark in this one.

188
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He actually wants to get even tastier than Billy was in Romans and actually have a thwack at someone.

189
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Doesn't he tell Lobos that even if killing the morod leader doesn't change anything, he might well enjoy it.

190
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Yeah, he's a bit Terry Nation.

191
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He does.

192
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But the thing is, I think it is still in character for Ian because this is such a desperate situation.

193
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He's never been Ian's been in plenty of dangerous situations, but he's never like physically seen the result.

194
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You know, in the Romans, yeah, he sees the lions, but he doesn't actually see the lions eat someone.

195
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In this, he's actually seeing himself as a wax dummy and I think it actually really unnerves him because he kind of snaps at Barbara at one point.

196
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Yeah, they have a proper fight. actually about it. which is which is really surprising.

197
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He does apologise to him, say he's stressed out by the whole possibility of bending up in a case thing.

198
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And I think it's that.

199
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It goes back to, um, sort of early season one where Ian is in complete denial that they're travelling through time and Barbara just goes, well, look, we have to accept the evidence of our own eyes.

200
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It's happened.

201
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And again here, when Ian is confronted with something he can't accept, he can't accept that he's going to go there.

202
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His only method is brute force action and saying something which may seem uncharacteristic, uncharacteristic, because Ian has killed before in the show, but only in self-defence and only in direst emergency, but in this situation, it's just like, no, I'm going to kill you.

203
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It'll just make me feel better.

204
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He doesn't do it.

205
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But yeah, he's kind of showing he's capable of that under duress.

206
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But the most surprising character and it shows how far we've come in the new granddaughter figure from Susan is Vicki, who falls in with the rebels and sort of says, God, you're a bunch of wet fish.

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And uses her quirky future knowledge that she's been talking about how she's into the sciences and what have you to go, well, hold on, all right, so we need to sell the computer the truth.

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That's step one.

209
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The computer needs to acknowledge us as official.

210
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That step two.

211
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We can definitely do the 1st one.

212
00:15:31.500 --> 00:15:33.360
All I have to do is bypass one of them.

213
00:15:33.419 --> 00:15:35.220
She's the one that saves the show.

214
00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:38.460
Yeah, yeah, no, she, that is how they get out of it.

215
00:15:38.519 --> 00:15:41.100
They get out of it because she inspires the revolution.

216
00:15:41.159 --> 00:15:42.960
Some arms fall into their hands.

217
00:15:43.019 --> 00:15:43.679
Yes.

218
00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:47.340
And then and then and then the revolution takes off.

219
00:15:47.399 --> 00:15:51.960
And so when they're in the preparation room, the thing that does save them is what Vicky has done.

220
00:15:52.019 --> 00:15:52.980
Yeah, exactly.

221
00:15:52.980 --> 00:15:54.899
She's Madame Mao in this narrative.

222
00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:57.840
She's just saying, oh, I want a whole cultural revolution right here, right now.

223
00:15:57.899 --> 00:16:00.539
I mean, that word revolution.

224
00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:09.419
It's so brilliant in when Vicki does open the armoury because she just stands up and she's like, what is your name?

225
00:16:09.539 --> 00:16:10.860
Vicki.

226
00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:12.779
What do you want?

227
00:16:12.899 --> 00:16:14.399
Weapons.

228
00:16:14.460 --> 00:16:16.139
What purpose?

229
00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:18.059
Revolution.

230
00:16:19.019 --> 00:16:21.779
The thing is, she's not bloodthirsty there.

231
00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:24.000
She's just going, yeah, revolution.

232
00:16:24.059 --> 00:16:25.379
Let's stick it to the man.

233
00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:29.820
And again, it's that mod counterculture thing you were talking about, Richard.

234
00:16:29.940 --> 00:16:35.879
But, um, Vicki is just so much more so much more of a positive character than Susan was.

235
00:16:35.940 --> 00:16:37.679
And we keep comparing it to Susan.

236
00:16:37.740 --> 00:16:39.480
She is a positive character in her own right.

237
00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:46.200
Even if Susan hadn't been in the show before her, you know, and so we didn't have anyone to compare to in that role.

238
00:16:46.259 --> 00:16:49.019
Vicki would still be an incredibly strong character.

239
00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:57.899
And if you like, this is the culmination of her travels up until this point because she's still been under the doctor's arm for most stories.

240
00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:02.460
Even the web planet when they do get separated, the 2 of them are put that together very quickly.

241
00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:05.759
But in this, they are separated for most of the story.

242
00:17:05.819 --> 00:17:11.940
And She shows herself to sort of go, well, what would the doctors do in this situation, right?

243
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:13.019
He would help people.

244
00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:20.700
And the funny thing is, she kind of does the thing that would become very traditional for Tom Baker and Peter Davidson to do.

245
00:17:20.759 --> 00:17:24.240
Billy doesn't so much fall in with the local rebels.

246
00:17:24.299 --> 00:17:26.640
It does happen a few times, but it's not the regular thing he does.

247
00:17:26.700 --> 00:17:33.839
So Vicky is not only taking on the doctor's example, but she's leading by her own example.

248
00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:34.859
Showing the doctor what to do.

249
00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:36.839
She's blazing a trail for him.

250
00:17:36.900 --> 00:17:39.359
And manages to save everyone as a result.

251
00:17:39.480 --> 00:17:41.819
Yeah, I agree with you.

252
00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:47.819
I think this is much more about a generation gap than it is about. can we trop the C word in again, colonialism.

253
00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:58.500
Well, you know, the writer, the writer Glenn Jones was actually South African and there was all that business going on with a British cricket team and apartheid, you know, South Africans not being allowed to play cricket.

254
00:17:58.500 --> 00:18:10.619
And you had Rhodesia, you had Ian Smith, you know, with that extraordinary accent that came to be known as the voice of bigotry in at this time on TV, you know, spouting this stuff about.

255
00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:12.480
That's Ian Smith from prisoner and name.

256
00:18:12.539 --> 00:18:12.900
Absolutely.

257
00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:13.559
Absolutely.

258
00:18:13.619 --> 00:18:14.279
Yes, yes.

259
00:18:14.339 --> 00:18:17.099
And also the prime minister of magician.

260
00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:18.539
But, you know, he said ways.

261
00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:21.000
He had a lot of his range.

262
00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:24.839
But this is fundamentally, this is groovy.

263
00:18:24.900 --> 00:18:25.920
Yeah, yeah.

264
00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:31.440
So the, the, the, the, I'm morons, more, more, more.

265
00:18:31.500 --> 00:18:32.940
The more...

266
00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:35.460
You missed the info jump in the beginning of episode two.

267
00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:38.460
Welcome to Mobos, a member of the Zoroch Empire.

268
00:18:38.519 --> 00:18:41.160
I'm only here for another 2 minims and all looking at my watch.

269
00:18:41.220 --> 00:18:42.359
That's this period of time.

270
00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:44.579
That's another 24 months.

271
00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:45.839
But your time.

272
00:18:45.900 --> 00:18:49.980
But, um, they're sort of bored, middle-aged.

273
00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:52.019
They are so bored, aren't they?

274
00:18:52.140 --> 00:18:52.619
Yeah, yeah.

275
00:18:52.619 --> 00:18:53.940
And it's very hard.

276
00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:58.019
That's my problem. really hard not to be watching people who are bored, not be bored myself.

277
00:18:58.079 --> 00:19:01.559
But then Billy comes along and says, oh, pads, that, let's do a Beatles movie.

278
00:19:01.619 --> 00:19:10.259
Well, the thing is, as much as they're bored, I actually find them quite amusing because they're not just bored with where they are, they're bored with the fact that the other guy's bored.

279
00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:15.240
Yeah, they're getting frustrated with each other, but being bored is like, can't you take this ball seriously?

280
00:19:15.299 --> 00:19:15.900
Well, can't you?

281
00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:19.019
Yeah, so we're back to Becca comedy, right?

282
00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:20.640
And...

283
00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:23.640
They have South African accents.

284
00:19:23.700 --> 00:19:24.660
They do.

285
00:19:24.660 --> 00:19:30.660
They're like the proponents of apartheid, whereas Tor and the other Xeron rebels.

286
00:19:30.779 --> 00:19:38.940
Oh, and that's why the gal set colonists in, um, so entire experiment have, uh, South African accents.

287
00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:44.160
No, the writer was Bob Baker and Dave Martin, but Glenn is an actor in it.

288
00:19:44.220 --> 00:19:44.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

289
00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:45.660
He's an actor.

290
00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:46.440
Yeah, the writer of this.

291
00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:48.960
That was a big thing in 75 as well.

292
00:19:49.019 --> 00:19:50.220
Yeah.

293
00:19:50.279 --> 00:20:03.240
I mean, something else I love with the Morrox being like terribly bored and blasé, is that at this point in the real world, we haven't even reached the moon and the space race is hotting up.

294
00:20:03.299 --> 00:20:09.420
So Doctor Who presents us with a world where space travel is so last year and so blasé.

295
00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:10.140
It's like...

296
00:20:10.140 --> 00:20:19.680
It's as though someone in the production office seem to think, can we do a like space epic where we land on the moon?

297
00:20:19.980 --> 00:20:21.779
No, we can't.

298
00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:24.059
Okay, can we say it's blasé and pointless?

299
00:20:24.119 --> 00:20:25.500
Yes, we can.

300
00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:33.420
And that is, it's postmodern in the most wonderful sense of, I mean, postmodernism, usually pokes fun at something.

301
00:20:33.539 --> 00:20:37.259
But quite often isn't fun in and of itself.

302
00:20:37.259 --> 00:20:40.019
And you just sit there going, yeah, you're just being mean now.

303
00:20:40.079 --> 00:21:03.539
Whereas this, you kind of you kind of laugh along with the joke of, oh, you're saying space travel's a bit old hat, but what it's more saying is that putting too much stock in the technology is old hat, and we can't forget about the human element, because the human element is the 0 on rebels, who are still excited about technology and interested in technology and how it can improve their lives.

304
00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:09.660
Whereas the morochs are just like, oh, we have technology quick, put it in a glass case. nobody can look at it.

305
00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:16.079
Nobody can touch it, especially not those people in dark uniforms as these zerons are.

306
00:21:16.140 --> 00:21:18.599
And they have a lot of eyebrows, don't they?

307
00:21:18.660 --> 00:21:20.759
Yeah, sort of vertical eyebrows.

308
00:21:20.819 --> 00:21:23.400
No, no, I thought they had 2 sets of eyebrows, one above the eye.

309
00:21:23.460 --> 00:21:24.059
Oh that's right.

310
00:21:24.119 --> 00:21:25.680
It's like they've shaved these ones off.

311
00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:26.940
No, no, they have two.

312
00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:29.039
Yeah, they've got double eyebrows.

313
00:21:29.099 --> 00:21:34.740
Don't forget, Stingray had been really big from Jerry Anderson and Thunderbirds this year, so big bushy eyebrows are big.

314
00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:35.279
They were the thing.

315
00:21:35.339 --> 00:21:36.119
So 2 eyebrows.

316
00:21:36.180 --> 00:21:37.980
If you can have Boba Fett with 2 eyebrows.

317
00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:45.960
You kind of right to see this as comedic potential because, you know, if you look at the history of the scripts of this, weirdly enough, it goes against what you'd expect.

318
00:21:46.019 --> 00:21:57.539
Whitaker really liked Jones's work from other stuff and really liked his comedic work and there was apparently a lot of comedy in this that get this Dennis Spooner cut out because he wanted it to be taken more seriously.

319
00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:58.740
Dennis Spooner.

320
00:21:58.799 --> 00:22:01.259
Dennis Spooner, maybe there's only room for one comedian.

321
00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:01.980
Maybe sure.

322
00:22:02.039 --> 00:22:04.079
Maybe he knew the chase was coming up.

323
00:22:04.259 --> 00:22:07.079
But yeah, apparently that's...

324
00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:14.039
Of course, in this we have an early appearance of someone who would later play quite a famous part, but beneath the mask.

325
00:22:14.099 --> 00:22:17.819
We've got Jeremy Bullock. who would go on to be Boba Fett.

326
00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:18.359
Yes.

327
00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:20.880
And the Archer.

328
00:22:20.940 --> 00:22:29.279
And so as we were watching that, as we're watching the Zeron rebels running about, Rod said, oh, that blonde one's quite familiar.

329
00:22:29.339 --> 00:22:37.319
And I said, well, um, you probably wouldn't know his face or his voice, but he's Boba Fett in Star Wars.

330
00:22:37.380 --> 00:22:39.420
And Bro's like, oh, okay.

331
00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:43.859
And then an episode later, Robert, Boba Fett's got quite nice bottom, hasn't it?

332
00:22:44.460 --> 00:22:48.000
He didn't say bottom, but we can't get an explicit attack.

333
00:22:48.059 --> 00:22:53.460
So he's been digitally replaced by Tamuera Morrison under that.

334
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:54.119
Yes, indeed.

335
00:22:54.180 --> 00:23:00.359
He's been digitally replaced by Tamor and Morrison and Lobos has been digitally replaced by Jab of the Hut.

336
00:23:00.420 --> 00:23:01.440
Okay, fair enough.

337
00:23:01.500 --> 00:23:06.299
It's the last time we see a Dalek with Corseton.

338
00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:09.720
Yes, it's the last time we've seen Dalek with the bands before they get the solar song.

339
00:23:09.779 --> 00:23:11.519
No, you're right before they get the course of your car.

340
00:23:11.700 --> 00:23:19.799
But it's also the 1st time we see a doctor hiding inside a Dalek. and impersonating a dark.

341
00:23:19.859 --> 00:23:25.680
And one does rather get the impression that Billy just climbed in there for a laugh.

342
00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:28.259
When he pops his head out.

343
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:29.880
He doesn't look like the 1st doctor.

344
00:23:29.940 --> 00:23:33.779
He looks like Billy Arthur going, this is why the kids think it's so much fun.

345
00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:41.220
But it's a, you know, it's a lovely moment, but it does, does begin to make the Daleks into figures of fun.

346
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:44.819
So I think that's a perfect tone to hear the Dalek vonk vonk again.

347
00:23:46.380 --> 00:23:49.380
And move on to the chase.

348
00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:57.720
So the chase is obviously here to redress that potential problem with making the Daleks into figures are fun, isn't it?

349
00:23:57.779 --> 00:24:02.400
So they're really a terrifying force in this story.

350
00:24:02.460 --> 00:24:04.380
Look, I mean, forces something.

351
00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:11.579
The starting point, obviously, has to be, again, it has to be Sandiff's sort of redemptive reading of this.

352
00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:24.000
So, uh, those of you don't know, Philip Sandafar is, uh, you know, like an incredibly uh, in cycle, an interesting commentator on Doctor Who, who's been covering its story by story on his blog for years now.

353
00:24:24.059 --> 00:24:26.400
He's put out several books and things.

354
00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:30.779
And he, you know, he doesn't say the chase is a good story.

355
00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:35.819
So he and I would, you know, have to agree to disagree on that because I think it's really fantastic.

356
00:24:35.880 --> 00:24:54.960
But he has a sort of redemptive reading as if all of the sort of weird flaws and production problems and plot issues and stuff are actually all intentional and leading towards a giant narrative collapse in which the entire possibility of even being able to tell Doctor Who stories is about to annihilate itself.

357
00:24:55.019 --> 00:24:58.859
And it's really terribly funny and it's well and truly worth reading.

358
00:24:58.920 --> 00:25:08.339
And, you know, it starts with, you know, the episode one where they've got the time and space visualiser from the space museum.

359
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:12.059
And instead of having adventures, they're just watching TV. do you know what I mean?

360
00:25:12.119 --> 00:25:18.960
And so it's a family unit watching TV and and seeing all these sort of various adventures and stuff.

361
00:25:19.019 --> 00:25:30.599
And suddenly the Daleks are sort of more exciting and more proactive than the doctor because they're sort of about to, um, you know, they're they're doing something.

362
00:25:30.660 --> 00:25:34.799
They're actually going to come after the doctor and destroy him.

363
00:25:34.859 --> 00:25:41.099
So, look, I'm not going to rehash the standard for reading, you can all go onto the internet.

364
00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:57.000
It'll be in the show notes, but what I'm going to say is that this is something that Terry Nation has done before, I think, in Keys of Mariners, which is to do a longer story, but split it into sort of several discrete units.

365
00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:03.839
And because each one is sort of quite short and because each one is sort of fairly simple, it never really gets too tiresome.

366
00:26:03.900 --> 00:26:12.480
Perhaps the worst defender is, the planet Aridius, where, you know, the Aridians are terribly kind of wet, I guess.

367
00:26:12.539 --> 00:26:16.619
Why do they call the planet a radius if it used to be an ocean planet?

368
00:26:16.680 --> 00:26:18.359
I never really kind of understood that.

369
00:26:18.420 --> 00:26:19.980
Deanna Troy named the planet perhaps?

370
00:26:20.039 --> 00:26:25.380
No, they just changed the name by deed poll when all the Cs...

371
00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:28.799
Maybe it was Maddus or something beforehand.

372
00:26:28.859 --> 00:26:39.359
So, um, personally, I just can't understand why anyone would take a long piece of text and break it up into several shorter pieces to be listened to across the space for 3 weeks.

373
00:26:39.420 --> 00:26:40.920
I just can't understand it.

374
00:26:40.980 --> 00:26:42.000
That's crazy.

375
00:26:42.059 --> 00:26:43.140
That'd be utterly crazy.

376
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:44.759
And so...

377
00:26:44.759 --> 00:26:54.599
And so, you know, we've got a radius and then we've got the Empire State Building and then we've got the Mary Celeste and then we've got that stupid haunted house thing and then we've got the planet Mechanus.

378
00:26:54.660 --> 00:26:58.380
And so we have kind of 32 parters, don't we?

379
00:26:58.440 --> 00:27:03.059
2 parts on a radius, then 2 parts where we go from place to place and then 2 parts.

380
00:27:03.299 --> 00:27:05.160
Mechanists, right?

381
00:27:05.220 --> 00:27:07.859
And so it doesn't really get too tight.

382
00:27:07.859 --> 00:27:18.059
And then, and it has changed the premise of the entire show because the TARDIS had previously really just being a plot device in order to get them into the story.

383
00:27:18.059 --> 00:27:25.619
And very frequently, you know, they're separated from the TARDIS and they have to get back to it in some way in order to get out and onto the next story.

384
00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:27.599
So it's a contrivance.

385
00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:36.480
But here it's actually a vehicle that they're piloting through time and space and there's someone else who can travel, travel after them and whom they can detect and so on.

386
00:27:36.539 --> 00:27:43.559
And so it really changes the character of the show in a way that it's going to change even further, of course, next story.

387
00:27:43.619 --> 00:27:50.880
So look, I mean, there are all sorts of things that, that, that don't really work, aren't there?

388
00:27:50.940 --> 00:27:56.099
But it sort of clips along, and it's got the Daleks in it, and it sort of reads me.

389
00:27:56.160 --> 00:27:57.720
You're saying, there's some fun dalek moments.

390
00:27:57.779 --> 00:28:08.339
I love the recreation of the, um, invasion of earth cliffhanger, only this time instead of coming out of the Thames that's coming out of sand.

391
00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:09.960
Like, for no...

392
00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:13.980
Redly, for certain reasons, and it's coughing or burping.

393
00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:21.420
Yeah, and then there's the Dalek who does its sums, you know, it gets asked a question and it sort of goes...

394
00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:22.200
Wait for them.

395
00:28:22.259 --> 00:28:27.359
I think they're just trying to outdo the mechanoids. very competitive these days. line, line.

396
00:28:27.420 --> 00:28:27.960
800.

397
00:28:28.140 --> 00:28:30.660
English.

398
00:28:31.799 --> 00:28:35.279
And we should actually be doing this whole discussion.

399
00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:42.960
Oh, stop.

400
00:28:43.200 --> 00:28:45.599
Enter enter 0 stop.

401
00:28:45.660 --> 00:28:47.579
It would never happen again.

402
00:28:47.579 --> 00:28:53.460
So, I mean, and it has all the sort of usual terri nation things.

403
00:28:53.519 --> 00:28:57.900
It's going to be rubber monster, like, it's the Maya beast, isn't it?

404
00:28:57.960 --> 00:28:59.460
Which, um, are we allowed?

405
00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:00.359
say testicle?

406
00:29:00.420 --> 00:29:02.940
I think we probably ought to say this?

407
00:29:02.940 --> 00:29:05.039
Because it looks like a pair of testimony.

408
00:29:05.160 --> 00:29:08.700
No, I see, I think you're thinking of frontier in space.

409
00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:11.460
Well, that looks like a conglomeration.

410
00:29:11.579 --> 00:29:14.940
It is just like a...

411
00:29:14.940 --> 00:29:21.839
Is this the moment in a radius when Vicky has this uncontrollable feat of festival laughter for no power?

412
00:29:21.900 --> 00:29:25.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah. something really crap has just happened off camera.

413
00:29:25.619 --> 00:29:27.240
Maybe that's it.

414
00:29:27.299 --> 00:29:31.140
Maybe someone brought the Maya piece. behind the cameras.

415
00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:32.099
No sense.

416
00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:36.180
And then they open the lids in the desert and she screams with laughter even more.

417
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:36.900
What it is.

418
00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:39.839
I've read an interview with Maureen where she says...

419
00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:44.700
I didn't want Vicky to scream unless she was absolutely terrified if she's just startled by something.

420
00:29:44.759 --> 00:29:45.420
She giggles.

421
00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:46.440
Oh, giggles, yeah, yeah.

422
00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:49.619
She soon becomes a slapping offence, though, doesn't it?

423
00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:50.220
Yeah, it is.

424
00:29:50.220 --> 00:29:54.900
I mean, most of the time she just sort of does But yeah, in that one.

425
00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:56.339
And it's just the door opening.

426
00:29:56.400 --> 00:29:58.920
Yeah, she does giggle for about 10 seconds.

427
00:29:58.920 --> 00:30:04.319
And William Russell's just kind of standing there furrowing his brow like, you're really gonna do it like that.

428
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:06.359
Are you doing?

429
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:08.940
Are you doing the accent?

430
00:30:09.960 --> 00:30:11.880
Oh, yeah.

431
00:30:11.940 --> 00:30:20.339
So, so, like a radius is, like those 2, it's high Will Bennett and someone else and they're just sort of really terrible and the My Beast is sort of a bit terrible as well.

432
00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:27.119
And we get them attacking a Dalek with Barbara's cardigan, which is a bit of a...

433
00:30:27.180 --> 00:30:29.460
So achieving says, no, not again.

434
00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:33.839
You know, like Ian, Ian, takes her card, you know, can I have your card again?

435
00:30:33.900 --> 00:30:36.299
And it's like, this is the 2nd story in a row.

436
00:30:36.359 --> 00:30:39.299
You're really going to take my card and then sort of dismember it somehow.

437
00:30:39.359 --> 00:30:42.660
And the doctor calls some Adelic auntie.

438
00:30:42.779 --> 00:30:44.339
As well.

439
00:30:44.339 --> 00:30:45.299
Archie.

440
00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:48.420
No, no, but here, Auntie, over here, Auntie. nuts.

441
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:49.680
Does that go on the BBC?

442
00:30:49.740 --> 00:30:50.339
Was it?

443
00:30:50.339 --> 00:30:52.500
You weren't allowed to call the bee auntie.

444
00:30:52.500 --> 00:30:53.160
Oh, maybe.

445
00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:57.000
Because it was seen as a bit cosy and comforting and they wanted it to be progressive.

446
00:30:57.000 --> 00:31:02.519
Because, you know, everyone preferred to it because just like a Jubiter ABC, so he might actually be even cheekier.

447
00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:06.839
I thought he was channelling Matt Smith, you said. in a sort of weird time thing.

448
00:31:06.900 --> 00:31:17.039
Something I do love about that 1st segment on Aridius is just the way that the Titus crew are all relaxing for most of the 1st episode for about 20 minutes.

449
00:31:17.099 --> 00:31:20.759
You know, 1st of all, they're relaxing inside the TARDIS and watching telly.

450
00:31:20.759 --> 00:31:33.599
And, you know, Vicky manages to tread the line between being an annoying child and still being fabulous by sort of wandering around and reading over Ian's shoulder. reading a book called, is he reading monsters from Outer Space?

451
00:31:33.660 --> 00:31:36.000
Well, Out of Space, which he says...

452
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:36.180
Yeah.

453
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:45.900
And William Hartnell possibly swearing and Vicky, depending on how you, because he's got a mouthful of screwdrivers and it sounds like he says something ending in all.

454
00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:49.140
And then she, you know, spills a drink on the dress.

455
00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:50.099
Barbara's making for it.

456
00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:51.480
And it's all wonderfully domestic.

457
00:31:52.500 --> 00:31:53.160
Perhaps.

458
00:31:53.160 --> 00:32:08.819
But not only that, you then get when they land, you know, Ian and Vicky go, go running across Canva Sands exploring, and you've got that beautiful scene with the doctor and Barbara Sunbaby.

459
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:09.359
No.

460
00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:11.640
That other awful noise.

461
00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:14.579
Yeah, the doctor's singing.

462
00:32:14.700 --> 00:32:15.720
So wonderful.

463
00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:16.920
Isn't this original?

464
00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:17.880
What's that awful noise?

465
00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:19.200
I'm expecting Creeks.

466
00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:20.700
Jolly wheels.

467
00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:23.640
But yeah, like the doctor, there's some bathing.

468
00:32:23.700 --> 00:32:26.640
The doctor's singing, Barbara can hear something inside the Tartaran.

469
00:32:26.700 --> 00:32:27.839
Doctor, what's that awful noise?

470
00:32:27.900 --> 00:32:28.859
My singing?

471
00:32:28.920 --> 00:32:30.599
No, the other awful door.

472
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:33.240
But then he says I could charm the knife.

473
00:32:33.240 --> 00:32:34.799
He gets out of the trees.

474
00:32:35.099 --> 00:32:36.779
It's wonderful.

475
00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:37.500
That's so great.

476
00:32:37.619 --> 00:32:38.759
Yeah, oh it is.

477
00:32:38.819 --> 00:32:43.140
And, well, it just goes back to something I said last season, and this is going to be the last chance I have to say.

478
00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:44.819
The doctor is in love with Barbara.

479
00:32:44.940 --> 00:32:46.920
Yeah, absolutely.

480
00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:50.700
This is the very 1st story where the doctor goes to kiss someone.

481
00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:52.380
Other than that.

482
00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:53.460
He said the Aztecs.

483
00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:56.700
It goes to Keisha's companion and it's not Barbara, it's Ian.

484
00:32:56.759 --> 00:32:58.079
Oh, really?

485
00:32:59.339 --> 00:33:00.240
I'm going to spoil.

486
00:33:00.299 --> 00:33:02.279
No, I'm not going to spoil it for you.

487
00:33:02.339 --> 00:33:02.940
You have to watch it again.

488
00:33:03.180 --> 00:33:06.000
I have to watch the whole thing again, people.

489
00:33:06.059 --> 00:33:08.579
Well, I'm excited by that.

490
00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:09.720
Yes, sure.

491
00:33:09.720 --> 00:33:13.380
I mean, I don't mind the chase.

492
00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:17.700
I think the chase wouldn't come in for as much criticism if it weren't not a dalek story.

493
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:21.059
I think people have a certain expectation for watching Dalek stories.

494
00:33:21.119 --> 00:33:22.859
If it had to been an original alien.

495
00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:29.039
If it had been the Lord building a time machine and going after the doctor in time space, I think it would be far more fondly remembered.

496
00:33:29.099 --> 00:33:32.279
It's because people think that it's sending the Daleks up.

497
00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:33.480
But that's the problem.

498
00:33:33.539 --> 00:33:35.400
Nation has actually completely blown.

499
00:33:35.460 --> 00:34:00.420
He's done the absolutely fabulous thing of taking it seriously, even though within its own precepts in the 1st series, AdFab is actually a very funny comedy where the characters themselves are intrinsic and integral, but from series 2 on, they completely take the Mickey out of each other and themselves and it stops being kind of as honest or as you can't really get involved with it anymore because they're doing their own meta narrative of it.

500
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:01.380
I'm just watching that.

501
00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:02.940
It's with this one.

502
00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:05.759
Daleks shouldn't come apart into 3 pieces when they're pushed off things.

503
00:34:05.819 --> 00:34:06.599
They're mentioned...

504
00:34:06.599 --> 00:34:07.680
That's not Terry Nation.

505
00:34:07.740 --> 00:34:11.940
Yeah, they're loveable Richard Martin. pushes them off the Mari Celeste in the 1st place.

506
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:15.300
There's a kind of thing as they, I can do anything with these.

507
00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:17.219
They're so popular. can now use them.

508
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:18.659
It's just a symbol for something else.

509
00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:22.559
And whatever it is, a dalek is not what it was established.

510
00:34:22.619 --> 00:34:25.980
It's just whatever it needs to be in the situation to get the drama along.

511
00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:29.460
We see, I think, but I do think that the premises are kind of natural thing.

512
00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:34.380
You've got the Daleks in their city and that's how they sort of started and we didn't know that they were going to be that great.

513
00:34:34.440 --> 00:34:42.000
Then when they're a breakout hit, you know, they invade the earth and, you know, threaten the world of the actual viewer.

514
00:34:42.059 --> 00:34:50.400
And then, you know, like, they're gone a lovely holiday and they go to New York.

515
00:34:50.460 --> 00:34:54.119
No, and then they, then they show. aggressive vegetation.

516
00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:55.440
It's a knife.

517
00:34:55.559 --> 00:34:56.639
It's funny though, me.

518
00:34:56.760 --> 00:34:57.960
Lot of jungles.

519
00:34:58.260 --> 00:35:02.519
Terry Nation things alive means animals that move.

520
00:35:03.179 --> 00:35:04.739
No, really.

521
00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:07.199
Next, again, next season.

522
00:35:07.260 --> 00:35:08.760
The Varga plants.

523
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:12.659
So they need to be equals to the doctor.

524
00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:14.579
This actually increases their kind of.

525
00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:16.679
It is, it's the production that's a problem.

526
00:35:16.739 --> 00:35:18.719
This turns them into a kind of mythic force.

527
00:35:18.780 --> 00:35:21.360
I like that they keep up with him the time.

528
00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:21.659
Yeah.

529
00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:25.320
You know, and they're better at time travel than he is, in fact.

530
00:35:25.380 --> 00:35:27.480
They know where they're going to go next.

531
00:35:27.539 --> 00:35:30.000
They catch up with him sort of gradually.

532
00:35:30.059 --> 00:35:39.059
But I mean, and then they're stupid, things like they can be killed by robot Frankenstein's monsters in 1990s farm fair and stuff.

533
00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:40.860
Like they're stupid stuff.

534
00:35:40.920 --> 00:35:44.099
But, but, you know, like if you're five, it would be great.

535
00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:48.360
Yeah, that's...

536
00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:52.980
Except with less blackface in this case.

537
00:35:53.039 --> 00:35:54.960
Yeah, that's terrible.

538
00:35:55.019 --> 00:36:00.960
And so do we have any moments of awkward racial stereotyping in the chase?

539
00:36:01.019 --> 00:36:17.159
Only Morton D. I'm one of these white American is therefore kind of sorry to everyone, but, you know, there is a horrible moment where, you know, I don't know if the audience knew at the time, but when you see Morton deal on the top of the Empire State, you think, oh, no, he is the companion.

540
00:36:17.219 --> 00:36:21.659
Oh, he's the new, he's actually going to come into the TARDIS and we're stuck with that for at least a year.

541
00:36:21.719 --> 00:36:23.340
He does...

542
00:36:23.340 --> 00:36:35.039
So this is Peter Purvis, of course, for our friends at home who will go on to play Stephen for... what seems like an eternity in season three, although I think he is terribly good.

543
00:36:35.099 --> 00:36:38.940
Actually, yeah, I really, really, they get on, really.

544
00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:49.920
There's fraternity, which develops actually to the ultimate point of the doctor and the companion, and it's... ends up having to run the show towards the end of series 3 when the Cardinals being in.

545
00:36:49.980 --> 00:36:55.380
And he will try that accent again in the gunfighters, which we'll talk about sort of reasonably soon.

546
00:36:55.440 --> 00:36:59.039
Yeah, you know, like all of that sort of reasonably fun.

547
00:36:59.099 --> 00:37:10.440
It has been pointed out that Barbara and Ian could, of course, get off at that and catch a plane home and they would be home, thus not necessitate, but, of course, they're in a chase.

548
00:37:10.500 --> 00:37:11.940
Yeah, they're interesting.

549
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:14.280
You know, they've got like 5 minutes to think about it.

550
00:37:14.340 --> 00:37:17.039
I forgive them for not considering it.

551
00:37:17.099 --> 00:37:17.940
But I think it, yeah.

552
00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:18.659
Yeah.

553
00:37:18.659 --> 00:37:20.639
And, you know, it's not 1st thing on your mind, though.

554
00:37:20.699 --> 00:37:23.219
I don't think they ask Morton the date.

555
00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:24.480
No.

556
00:37:24.480 --> 00:37:26.340
So they don't know that they're back.

557
00:37:26.639 --> 00:37:30.659
Although, they were willing to accept... up to the minute play.

558
00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:33.659
Straight off the Beverly Hillbillies, and that's actually where the characters come from.

559
00:37:33.719 --> 00:37:35.760
This is a show about other TV shows.

560
00:37:35.820 --> 00:37:36.599
Yes.

561
00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:37.619
Very much so.

562
00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:44.820
Maybe it's the 1st time Doctor Who has actually said we really not only were within the TV, but we're running TV, we're every other TV show.

563
00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:49.320
So it's like series one of the new series being all about television.

564
00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:52.079
So there's the interlude about television.

565
00:37:52.139 --> 00:37:58.679
I mean, the Iridius thing is a fairly standard, rather boring Doctor Who sort of tale that fortunately the Daleks come and smash it up.

566
00:37:58.739 --> 00:38:11.340
And then they go into various other TV shows, which, again, is sort of what they do in the in the Chase 2 or Dalek's master plan, you know, the sort of middle bit.

567
00:38:11.400 --> 00:38:12.659
I can put it out there.

568
00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:14.159
We'll talk about that at length.

569
00:38:14.579 --> 00:38:16.800
Sorry, everyone.

570
00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:19.380
And then and then the mechanist thing.

571
00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:22.920
Oh, can we mention this beautiful city of mechanism?

572
00:38:22.980 --> 00:38:23.579
It's lovely.

573
00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:24.780
It's acoustic, isn't it?

574
00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:33.239
Well, again, that's an absolutely perfect gaudy representative, you know, if he's beautiful, amorphous metaphoric architecture.

575
00:38:33.300 --> 00:38:34.679
It is spectacular.

576
00:38:34.739 --> 00:38:35.699
It's a beautiful model.

577
00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:42.659
It takes a magnificent design to look like it was made by chance.

578
00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:44.400
You know, it looks like...

579
00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:53.940
It's very organic, it waxed down something and just let it run, but you just know with Ray Husek that, no, he's planned every single one of those struts and supports and they're using...

580
00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:59.639
And yet it's built by robots with vocabulary that's even worse than concrete poetry.

581
00:38:59.880 --> 00:39:04.980
It's built by every D&D player's worst nightmare, the giant Ds point ticks.

582
00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:06.780
I cuts of heatrons.

583
00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:07.260
Yeah.

584
00:39:07.260 --> 00:39:07.980
So it is.

585
00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:09.239
Yes, yes.

586
00:39:09.300 --> 00:39:21.900
So, um, and, you know, like again, they're really fun, you know, the big battle at the end with the, with the Daleks and the, and the mechanoids is quite well shot, you know what I mean?

587
00:39:21.960 --> 00:39:24.960
There's lots of fades and things it's really exciting.

588
00:39:25.019 --> 00:39:26.340
They did it on film.

589
00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:28.739
They did it in that biggest film studio at Ealing, didn't they?

590
00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:29.460
The Vint Battles.

591
00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:31.800
And then you get to see Barbara's Undies.

592
00:39:31.860 --> 00:39:33.480
Don't you like?

593
00:39:33.539 --> 00:39:36.300
Yeah, Ian almost grips her pants off.

594
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:41.699
They tie Vicky up, which you've all been waiting for at home, you know, and lower down a thing.

595
00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:49.500
But the thing is that when Vicky does sort of go to pieces, it doesn't feel like it cheapens the character because it's like, you know what?

596
00:39:49.559 --> 00:39:57.119
She's gone to pieces once in everything she's experienced and it's when she is, when she fears for her life and plummeting to the ground and her gris...

597
00:39:57.239 --> 00:39:58.800
When she's being written by Terry Nation.

598
00:39:58.860 --> 00:40:02.039
It's also been written by Terry Nation, but it's kind of like, you know what?

599
00:40:02.099 --> 00:40:04.019
Everyone has their break.

600
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:07.739
And we, yeah, we can accept that this is something you can't do.

601
00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:16.559
But at the same time, you know, she doesn't start lashing out and stopping people, but she she almost she just seizes up and almost goes catatonic and allows them to rescue her.

602
00:40:16.619 --> 00:40:18.480
So I think it's a bit of a shame actually.

603
00:40:18.539 --> 00:40:22.380
Actually, I would have been happier if she had been less of an idiot.

604
00:40:22.440 --> 00:40:25.800
But yeah, it doesn't fatally undermine the character because she does it once.

605
00:40:25.860 --> 00:40:32.519
And in the same story, you know, she stowed away on the Dalek ship, concealed herself, found out there's a robot duplicate of the doctor and warned everyone else.

606
00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:33.719
Which looks exactly like.

607
00:40:33.719 --> 00:40:35.820
Looks exactly like the original.

608
00:40:35.880 --> 00:40:39.239
Look, poor Edmund Warwick. do not blame him.

609
00:40:40.019 --> 00:40:49.980
Apparently it was because Edmund Warwick had stepped in late in the day to stand in for Billy when Billy was injured on Darlic Invasion.

610
00:40:50.940 --> 00:40:54.300
They had said to him, look, we'll give you a bigger part later in the season.

611
00:40:54.300 --> 00:40:56.579
For some reason.

612
00:40:56.639 --> 00:41:09.360
For some reason, that bigger part had to be a robot duplicate of Doctor Who, with full on mid-shots, face forward to the camera, and a line of dialogue in his own voice.

613
00:41:09.420 --> 00:41:11.340
No, no, he's dubbed by Billy.

614
00:41:11.400 --> 00:41:12.420
Most of it, yes.

615
00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:17.159
But at one point, I think when he's calling out to Barbara.

616
00:41:17.219 --> 00:41:18.960
They don't dub him.

617
00:41:19.860 --> 00:41:26.699
That being said, you know what, in long shot, when he's just walking through, and from behind, he actually walks like Billy.

618
00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:29.099
Like he's taken the time to get the physical mannerisms.

619
00:41:29.159 --> 00:41:33.900
But I think the real disappointing thing there because, you know, you can forgive that kind of thing.

620
00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:37.079
They didn't have time to reset cameras and do both sides.

621
00:41:37.139 --> 00:41:47.940
The real disappointing thing is once they sort of deactivate the robot, You would think that they would try to use it against the dialects, like make the dialects think they caught the doctor when actually they're caught the robot.

622
00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:49.199
But did they do that?

623
00:41:49.260 --> 00:41:49.619
No.

624
00:41:49.739 --> 00:41:52.320
They just deactivate the robot and leave it in the forest.

625
00:41:52.380 --> 00:41:55.679
Oh, no, the doctor goes out and pretends to be the robot.

626
00:41:55.739 --> 00:41:56.639
Yeah, it doesn't work.

627
00:41:56.699 --> 00:41:57.719
No, no, no.

628
00:41:57.780 --> 00:42:01.980
It goes for about 5 seconds and they have to run.

629
00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:07.980
That bit feels like, and this is before it, obviously, but that bit feels like an episode of a scene from Red Dwarf.

630
00:42:08.039 --> 00:42:09.000
It's fun.

631
00:42:09.059 --> 00:42:10.079
Oh, it's really funny.

632
00:42:10.139 --> 00:42:12.659
Like, Billy plays it perfectly, like, imagine work.

633
00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:30.360
But then I think I think that we're missing the huge thing and something that the biggest thing about the chase, which is, which is going to just completely change the history of the show, and that is the departure of Ian and Barbara.

634
00:42:30.420 --> 00:42:41.820
And I say that, like, because Chase, the Chase is one of the stories that exists in fallen, because I've got a reasonably early DVD release, I've watched it a lot. over the years.

635
00:42:41.880 --> 00:42:44.159
So it was sort of my go-to heart and all, you know what I mean?

636
00:42:44.219 --> 00:42:49.440
And I know that's crazy, but it's fun and it's funny and all of that sort of thing.

637
00:42:49.500 --> 00:42:52.920
And so this time when I was actually watching it in context.

638
00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:55.139
And, you know, I've been watching it in order.

639
00:42:55.199 --> 00:42:57.719
I'm up to season 4 and it's all for the podcast.

640
00:42:57.780 --> 00:43:05.219
I love all of you at home and I'll go through anything really, just for your benefit, including the smugglers.

641
00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:07.500
And that's your toy maker.

642
00:43:07.500 --> 00:43:10.199
You texted me about the other day and you loved that one.

643
00:43:10.260 --> 00:43:14.460
And so this time I'm watching the chase in context for the 1st time.

644
00:43:14.460 --> 00:43:27.960
And it was like it was like going back to 1978 or 79 when I 1st saw like Sarah leave and she was the only sort of, you know, companion for the doctor that I'd ever known.

645
00:43:28.019 --> 00:43:34.440
And, and um, I was really, really heartbroken by it.

646
00:43:34.500 --> 00:43:35.519
It's so sad.

647
00:43:35.579 --> 00:43:39.119
And like, I'm so glad that they spared us.

648
00:43:39.179 --> 00:43:46.800
I know it's a bit of a cop out and they do it again with Vicky where they spare us the actual scene of them saying goodbye for the last time.

649
00:43:46.860 --> 00:43:59.099
Um, And, you know, Vicky is spectacular in it, the way that she wins the doctor over and, and then that whole montage, which is, is that directed by Douglas Campfield?

650
00:43:59.159 --> 00:44:01.260
The, the, the steel images?

651
00:44:01.320 --> 00:44:02.219
In the steel images?

652
00:44:02.340 --> 00:44:03.420
I think...

653
00:44:04.199 --> 00:44:07.679
Yes, yes, Douglas Canfield went out with them and a stills camera, I believe.

654
00:44:07.739 --> 00:44:19.619
And just took all those lovely photos of them all over London and then they blow up the Dalek time machine in the warehouse and all of that sort of thing and they, you know, they laugh and then the whole thing comes back.

655
00:44:19.619 --> 00:44:25.679
Full circle, we're watching the time space visualiser and the doctor gets to see that they're okay.

656
00:44:25.739 --> 00:44:27.539
And I just think it's perfect.

657
00:44:27.599 --> 00:44:29.219
It's so beautifully low key.

658
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:36.539
And I think Barbara, Barbara, particularly, obviously, and Ian, what this show is about.

659
00:44:36.599 --> 00:44:37.199
Do you know what I mean?

660
00:44:37.260 --> 00:44:55.320
It's about 2 school teachers who stumble in, stumble out of our world into a time machine and I put in these sort of strange action adventure situations when they're just sort of rather tweedy and cardigan wearing and things, and then they have to function inside that sort of story.

661
00:44:55.380 --> 00:45:08.099
And they both have so much charm and they're both so terrific that the show, I think, you know, however good Peter Pervys is, I think the show spends the next year flailing and wandering what to do without them.

662
00:45:08.159 --> 00:45:10.619
It's a good point.

663
00:45:10.619 --> 00:45:15.659
I, I, do you, do you have a correction about the director of those sequences or?

664
00:45:15.659 --> 00:45:17.159
Because I thought that's what you want.

665
00:45:17.219 --> 00:45:24.599
Look, no, I did notice that Barbara Joss is actually the one running around on canvas sands instead of...

666
00:45:24.659 --> 00:45:31.199
Yeah, instead of Maureen O'Brien in all of the reverse shots, since we're citing people who... one's concerned.

667
00:45:31.260 --> 00:45:38.519
We haven't really mentioned because not everyone knows the stuff backwards, but the Beatles were actually really keen, especially John Lennon, to be in it.

668
00:45:38.579 --> 00:45:41.639
And it was Brian Epstein, their manager, who said, oh, no, we're not happening.

669
00:45:41.639 --> 00:45:44.159
Because, you know, you'll ruin the brand.

670
00:45:44.219 --> 00:45:46.800
Do they actually say things like that in 1964?

671
00:45:46.860 --> 00:45:49.800
But yeah, he didn't want to spoil the illusion of what the Beatles were.

672
00:45:49.860 --> 00:45:51.179
John was a gentleman.

673
00:45:51.239 --> 00:45:52.559
Were they going to be made up as old man?

674
00:45:52.619 --> 00:45:54.780
yeah Yes, old blokes.

675
00:45:54.960 --> 00:45:57.900
It was going to be like... 1994 or something.

676
00:45:57.960 --> 00:46:03.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, with the in and bob we're leaving.

677
00:46:03.420 --> 00:46:07.440
And as you say, it took the show a while to recover from that long while.

678
00:46:07.500 --> 00:46:16.139
We've kind of seen that mirrored in the new series in that, and I'm going to state, 1st of all, that I love Prima Arjumen, and I love Martha Jones in the show.

679
00:46:16.199 --> 00:46:25.380
But the show did take that year to figure out how to write a companion after Billy Piper left.

680
00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:31.739
And really it shouldn't, but there were there were missteps and well, we'll get there in a couple of years on the podcast.

681
00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:39.119
But I don't agree with you, by the way, just...

682
00:46:39.119 --> 00:46:44.519
But also, when you were saying, you know, we don't see the actual leaving conversation.

683
00:46:44.579 --> 00:46:46.739
That's a very good point.

684
00:46:46.739 --> 00:46:51.300
And all of Hartnell's companions lead very abruptly.

685
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:55.860
There is, there is a buildup to most of them. but they do leave very abruptly.

686
00:46:55.920 --> 00:47:12.780
But I think in the case of being in Barbara, certainly, Not seeing the final conversation between them. is far more effective than seeing that 2nd last conversation when they're actually arguing and bickering with each other.

687
00:47:12.840 --> 00:47:15.000
Because again, it goes back to the beginning of their relationship.

688
00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:26.219
And it sort of goes through the whole relationship in microcosm of being saying, but I want to go home, I want a normal life and the doctor finds the, Barbara, it's Barbara who convinces the doctor just like it always has been.

689
00:47:26.280 --> 00:47:27.539
No, it's Vicky.

690
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:33.960
Doesn't Vicki, like, he's refused this and Vicki... and just says, you know, let them go.

691
00:47:34.019 --> 00:47:35.340
Yeah, let them, you know.

692
00:47:35.400 --> 00:47:36.539
And he loves Vicky.

693
00:47:36.599 --> 00:47:39.360
And, you know, she's not going anywhere.

694
00:47:39.420 --> 00:47:40.559
She reassures him.

695
00:47:40.679 --> 00:47:46.679
But I think the reason that it works without them actually in the ship saying goodbye is that...

696
00:47:47.699 --> 00:47:51.360
That sequence, that last five, 10 minutes.

697
00:47:51.420 --> 00:47:56.460
It's not really about Anne and Barbara saying goodbye to the doctor. about Ian and Barbara saying goodbye to us.

698
00:47:56.519 --> 00:47:57.659
Yeah, 0 yeah.

699
00:47:57.719 --> 00:47:58.500
I think so.

700
00:47:58.800 --> 00:48:05.820
And I'm choking up about it now because the thing is, we didn't really talk about the emotional reaction to Susan leaving.

701
00:48:05.880 --> 00:48:10.079
I do cry when I see that, but I cry because it feels unfair. think it's a waste.

702
00:48:10.139 --> 00:48:12.000
I cry with me.

703
00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:14.280
I cry with me in and Barbara because it feels so right.

704
00:48:14.760 --> 00:48:23.760
Even though, even though this, I think, I agree with you, Nathan, the show is not as good without them next season.

705
00:48:23.820 --> 00:48:26.159
No, no, no, I don't mean next season.

706
00:48:26.219 --> 00:48:28.260
I mean, the next 48 years.

707
00:48:28.380 --> 00:48:30.900
It's a describe.

708
00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:33.059
I kind of go, you know what?

709
00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:35.579
That is the perfect end for you two.

710
00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:48.539
It's a bit, it's a bit like, and some people felt this was wrong, but when Donna leaves, Um, people went, oh, but she's just getting married off, but the thing is, all Donna ever wanted was someone to be here.

711
00:48:48.599 --> 00:48:49.199
It's a bride.

712
00:48:49.260 --> 00:48:56.880
Well, she wanted she wanted someone to be her companion and to love her and she didn't have that with her with her 1st fiance, but she does get it with the 2nd one.

713
00:48:56.940 --> 00:49:01.679
And Berner Crippens even says, oh, you know, he's not making mountains of money.

714
00:49:01.739 --> 00:49:02.880
No, Donna doesn't care about that.

715
00:49:02.940 --> 00:49:03.659
Donald wants it.

716
00:49:03.719 --> 00:49:04.619
Donna wants a companion.

717
00:49:04.679 --> 00:49:05.760
Like the doctor.

718
00:49:05.820 --> 00:49:08.460
But that's not Susan.

719
00:49:08.519 --> 00:49:12.840
The way in and Barbara go is so right because they just kind of go, you know what?

720
00:49:12.900 --> 00:49:16.920
We could go we could go on travelling with you, but this is our chance to get home.

721
00:49:16.980 --> 00:49:18.000
We want to get home.

722
00:49:18.059 --> 00:49:19.079
We have experienced so much.

723
00:49:19.139 --> 00:49:21.179
And they're the adults in the drama.

724
00:49:21.239 --> 00:49:24.840
Yeah, and you see, and adults do adult things that make adult decisions.

725
00:49:24.900 --> 00:49:27.059
Billy is not an adult. as a child.

726
00:49:27.179 --> 00:49:30.659
And Maureen is very much the same.

727
00:49:30.719 --> 00:49:34.199
So yes, the children are, it's kind of dangerous and precipitous, isn't it?

728
00:49:34.260 --> 00:49:35.579
The children are left with the magic box.

729
00:49:35.639 --> 00:49:37.019
That's what's going to happen next.

730
00:49:37.079 --> 00:49:46.920
Um, I will also say interestingly, when Rod and I watched it, I didn't point out that Stephen was Morton Dill.

731
00:49:46.980 --> 00:49:47.579
Okay.

732
00:49:47.579 --> 00:49:49.920
And Rod really didn't like Morton Dill.

733
00:49:49.980 --> 00:49:50.400
Of course.

734
00:49:50.460 --> 00:49:54.119
He didn't eat, he said, is he doing an Australian accent?

735
00:49:54.179 --> 00:49:54.960
I can't tell.

736
00:49:55.260 --> 00:49:59.340
Beverly Hillbirdies was a big rating thing on British TV that year.

737
00:49:59.400 --> 00:50:04.619
But after the Tartars like New York, Roger said, oh God, he's the worst supporting character yet.

738
00:50:04.739 --> 00:50:05.760
What a terrible actor.

739
00:50:05.820 --> 00:50:11.519
And then at the end of episode 6 of The Chase, Rod says, Stephen should have gone with him.

740
00:50:11.579 --> 00:50:12.000
He was great.

741
00:50:12.659 --> 00:50:14.579
So, you know.

742
00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:17.460
And of course, everyone wishes that Stephen kept his beard.

743
00:50:17.519 --> 00:50:19.320
Yeah, the beard is good.

744
00:50:19.380 --> 00:50:20.099
Yeah, then.

745
00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:21.239
So now back then.

746
00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:30.780
Well, on that topic of Stephen's beard, it's time to it's time to move on to the last story of the season, which is the time.

747
00:50:32.460 --> 00:50:35.579
Time to polish up our space car.

748
00:50:35.639 --> 00:50:36.000
Yes.

749
00:50:36.659 --> 00:50:39.780
So, um, 11th century England.

750
00:50:40.260 --> 00:50:43.079
TARDIS lands on a beach.

751
00:50:44.099 --> 00:50:47.219
Stephen is discovered inside the time.

752
00:50:47.280 --> 00:50:50.400
Ian, you nearly did that thing that the doctor does when Susan leaves.

753
00:50:51.000 --> 00:50:52.079
Susan opened the door.

754
00:50:52.139 --> 00:50:53.340
Open the door.

755
00:50:53.400 --> 00:50:56.579
No, wait, no, I abandoned you in a post apocalyptic wasteland.

756
00:50:56.639 --> 00:51:00.599
Um, So, yeah, the time medlock.

757
00:51:00.659 --> 00:51:03.300
What a great story.

758
00:51:03.360 --> 00:51:12.840
This feels like Dennis Spooner in Apopheosis, you know, as good as the Romans is, this is where he gets the perfect balance of drama and comedy. in a story.

759
00:51:12.900 --> 00:51:17.519
And it's also helped along by the fact that he's got Peter Butterworth.

760
00:51:17.579 --> 00:51:18.659
Fantastic.

761
00:51:18.719 --> 00:51:23.940
I mean, a carry-on, a carry-on actor as the villain.

762
00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:27.059
I think he'd been in carry on at this...

763
00:51:27.119 --> 00:51:28.019
No, you're quite right.

764
00:51:28.079 --> 00:51:29.880
Yeah, a lot of that's no, that's true.

765
00:51:29.940 --> 00:51:31.559
We had done comedy.

766
00:51:31.679 --> 00:51:32.039
Yeah.

767
00:51:32.099 --> 00:51:39.659
But yeah, a lot of people said there was this myth that verify saw him in carry on and it's like, no, actually...

768
00:51:39.659 --> 00:51:42.420
Carrie was doing much more sporadically than we think now.

769
00:51:42.480 --> 00:51:43.619
No, it only got...

770
00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:45.239
It wasn't a criminal or something.

771
00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:47.760
Well, it's just done a lot of times, yeah.

772
00:51:47.820 --> 00:51:56.579
Yeah, I think I think it was something like he was making a carry on or possibly his 1st carry on when he got the offer for the role.

773
00:51:56.639 --> 00:51:58.199
So there's no possible correlation.

774
00:51:58.260 --> 00:52:13.800
Plus, he's his persona in carry on because most of the time in carry on, they have the same persona in each field, even if it's not the same character, is very different to the monk who, right from his 1st scene, there's like, there's something not right about it.

775
00:52:13.860 --> 00:52:16.440
Is this where all the rules are broken and the show restarts again?

776
00:52:16.500 --> 00:52:17.579
Well, it is.

777
00:52:17.579 --> 00:52:19.260
It's the 1st shooto historical.

778
00:52:19.320 --> 00:52:21.780
Nathan is actually jumping up and down.

779
00:52:21.840 --> 00:52:22.559
I am a signer.

780
00:52:22.619 --> 00:52:23.699
I'm excited.

781
00:52:23.760 --> 00:52:24.900
There's a terror lepel in this one.

782
00:52:27.719 --> 00:52:36.719
So it's historical and it's sort of it's sort of reasonably entertaining, but it does break the rules and it actually changes the premise of the entire show. in a way that the chase are just done.

783
00:52:36.780 --> 00:52:41.699
So the chase makes the daleks are equal to the doctor and even better than the doctorate travelling through time.

784
00:52:41.820 --> 00:52:50.579
And now we get this sort of incredible reveal, which is just absolutely exemplified by that cliffhanger at the end of episode three, which is the best cliffhanger so far.

785
00:52:50.639 --> 00:52:52.619
Because you would never expect it.

786
00:52:52.619 --> 00:52:55.980
And it's almost impossible to watch this now, isn't it properly?

787
00:52:55.980 --> 00:52:59.460
And really experience like, 0 my god, there's another TARD.

788
00:52:59.519 --> 00:52:59.760
Oh.

789
00:52:59.820 --> 00:53:02.219
Oh my god, here's someone from the doctor's planet.

790
00:53:02.280 --> 00:53:08.400
Do you assume it's the TARDIS from another time that he's captured because it's a time...

791
00:53:08.460 --> 00:53:09.239
No, no, no, no, no.

792
00:53:09.300 --> 00:53:12.840
But I think that's a bit too sort of subtle and moffetish for the audience in the 60s.

793
00:53:12.900 --> 00:53:14.099
I've seen the Moffat have done.

794
00:53:14.159 --> 00:53:16.260
What happened to that sir?

795
00:53:16.320 --> 00:53:18.780
Did we run out of things that Stephen Moffatt would do?

796
00:53:18.840 --> 00:53:19.980
He killed everyone and made them.

797
00:53:21.300 --> 00:53:23.880
And then their baby turned into goo.

798
00:53:23.940 --> 00:53:32.400
But I did not, obviously, when I 1st saw this one, I had read the book, or whatever it was, that I think that, yeah, the book had the book come out before the DVD.

799
00:53:32.460 --> 00:53:34.139
Anyway, the video I should say.

800
00:53:34.199 --> 00:53:41.880
But I did think you could see this as it's possible that it's the Tartar, and somehow he's got it from another time, American.

801
00:53:41.940 --> 00:53:44.280
But I mean, when she goes in there, she says, it's eight.

802
00:53:44.280 --> 00:53:45.539
Yes, very quickly.

803
00:53:45.599 --> 00:53:51.960
But it's that nice, as you say, it's that nice dissembling of, we're just not quite sure what's happening here or this throwing it all out.

804
00:53:52.019 --> 00:54:03.360
And it's all very sort of cleverly done and like I really like the fact that the technology and the lead up to that has all been sort of contemporary 60s technology. very contemporary.

805
00:54:03.420 --> 00:54:05.159
TARDIS has a horizontal hold.

806
00:54:06.659 --> 00:54:09.059
Sheer poetry, dear boy.

807
00:54:09.119 --> 00:54:15.179
TVs used to have those when we had valve TVs because the pictures would jump and TV's had a horizontal hold that we would.

808
00:54:15.239 --> 00:54:16.619
So maybe that's what we should talk about.

809
00:54:16.679 --> 00:54:19.320
It is because Stephen has stowed a word.

810
00:54:19.380 --> 00:54:27.599
Yeah, well, yeah, Stephen sort of found the TARDIS and just... while the doctor was off showing Ian and Barbara how to use the Dale capsule.

811
00:54:27.659 --> 00:54:29.280
So they weren't expecting to see him.

812
00:54:29.340 --> 00:54:31.260
So he comes in and actually gets introduced.

813
00:54:31.260 --> 00:54:44.639
And the story is really aware, I think that this is a huge gamble for the show, that our 2 main audience identification figures out, the 2 human beings from present-day earth aren't in the show anymore.

814
00:54:44.699 --> 00:54:47.219
And episode one really goes out of its way.

815
00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:55.320
You know, the doctor's off on his own and Instead of the doctor and Vicky, which you pointed out before, Brendan is the usual pair.

816
00:54:55.619 --> 00:55:02.820
And so it's Stephen and Vicky and they're the new status quo and they're great together.

817
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:05.219
And instead of being mum, dad, and daughter.

818
00:55:05.280 --> 00:55:06.239
It, now brother and sister.

819
00:55:06.300 --> 00:55:07.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

820
00:55:07.920 --> 00:55:12.719
And they have a little bit of conflict and stuff, but it is that sort of brother sister conflict.

821
00:55:12.780 --> 00:55:17.340
That's, I think that, that is sort of terrific and it does, it does work.

822
00:55:17.400 --> 00:55:25.500
And what I like is, um, do you get the impression that Vicki has learned from Barbara in that?

823
00:55:25.559 --> 00:55:28.199
Yeah, Stephen does actually try some chauvinistic crap on it.

824
00:55:28.260 --> 00:55:34.019
Like, he don't, he, he, all that says, we're doing this because I'm the man, but he kind of says, oh, we're doing this.

825
00:55:34.079 --> 00:55:36.780
And Vicky said, Vicky actually just grabs him at one point.

826
00:55:36.840 --> 00:55:38.579
Supposing you do as I say for once.

827
00:55:39.059 --> 00:55:42.360
It's like that...

828
00:55:42.420 --> 00:55:43.380
That's Barbara.

829
00:55:43.440 --> 00:55:51.119
And that's the wonderful thing that the show is kind of saying, okay, we know our strong female lead has gone.

830
00:55:51.480 --> 00:56:04.739
Even though this girl is only in her teens, she is still a strong female character, and it's the kind of thing that Joss Whedon took away from Doctor Who. because Josh Wheaton has cited Doctor Who as an influence on his work.

831
00:56:04.800 --> 00:56:05.579
Right.

832
00:56:05.579 --> 00:56:09.360
Um, and Doctor Who is that because of story arcing?

833
00:56:09.420 --> 00:56:10.980
It is the 1st show to do real story.

834
00:56:11.460 --> 00:56:14.760
Story arcing, but I think he has also cited his female characters.

835
00:56:14.820 --> 00:56:21.900
And, you know, he doesn't he doesn't like being asked about why he has strong female characters because his response is always because you keep bloody asking like it's something unusual.

836
00:56:21.960 --> 00:56:23.699
Yeah, right.

837
00:56:23.699 --> 00:56:31.920
You know, I am aware for any of your listeners out there that it's probably a bit odd for us to be going on.

838
00:56:31.980 --> 00:56:37.139
It's constantly about female characters, but unfortunately it is still something that's remarkable having a strong female character.

839
00:56:37.260 --> 00:56:40.679
I say remarkably in the sense of something to be remarked upon.

840
00:56:40.739 --> 00:56:47.460
But I think it's, I think it's still important to remark upon it until it is something that we don't talk about.

841
00:56:48.119 --> 00:56:49.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

842
00:56:49.079 --> 00:56:57.960
It's, it's, well, it's, it's a big thing for a 60s show and it's great that, it shows some growth in the character of Vicky.

843
00:56:58.739 --> 00:57:03.659
This is the one where Billy disappears for an episode again, isn't it?

844
00:57:03.780 --> 00:57:05.400
It's just that episode.

845
00:57:05.820 --> 00:57:07.980
Yeah, he's locked up so...

846
00:57:08.039 --> 00:57:08.639
Yes.

847
00:57:10.019 --> 00:57:12.360
You know, this is actually the episode.

848
00:57:12.360 --> 00:57:17.639
Oh, so it's just a story where the Cushion film came out. to the 70s in 65.

849
00:57:17.820 --> 00:57:25.500
Um, and I wonder if we're looking at Billy's performance and because he's pretty razor in this, even though there is some fantastic Billy fluffs.

850
00:57:26.820 --> 00:57:31.199
I wonder if he's starting to realise this is the 1st point of his mortality.

851
00:57:31.260 --> 00:57:32.400
He is replaceable.

852
00:57:32.460 --> 00:57:35.639
Cushing is now a cinema doctor and that's the big thing.

853
00:57:35.699 --> 00:57:37.559
Okay, didn't do that well at the cinemas.

854
00:57:37.619 --> 00:57:47.280
But maybe it's just the 1st point that we're going to start seeing where Billy has certain methods to try and get the production crew to do what he wants to do.

855
00:57:47.340 --> 00:57:54.360
I think characters, I mean, people had the had the week off, you know, from time to time.

856
00:57:54.420 --> 00:57:57.059
Yeah, he took a sickie apparently, doing this one.

857
00:57:57.119 --> 00:58:05.039
I don't know, man, he was, I'm just sort of starting to see the fragility because, you know, he's, he really took it very much to heart when he fluffed his lines.

858
00:58:05.099 --> 00:58:06.059
He did take it very seriously.

859
00:58:06.179 --> 00:58:09.119
And of course, he knew that by the stage that Verity was leaving.

860
00:58:09.179 --> 00:58:09.780
Exactly.

861
00:58:09.840 --> 00:58:11.280
Yeah, okay, yeah, that's a big thing.

862
00:58:11.340 --> 00:58:12.599
That was a major thing.

863
00:58:12.659 --> 00:58:18.599
But, I mean, in our next set of podcasts, we'll really talk about this because the production team just easy now.

864
00:58:18.659 --> 00:58:19.679
Yeah, nothing to do.

865
00:58:20.280 --> 00:58:21.480
So that's all I'm hinting at.

866
00:58:21.539 --> 00:58:24.300
It's just the beginning of that, yeah.

867
00:58:24.360 --> 00:58:28.559
Previously he's only had that episode of Dalek Invasion.

868
00:58:28.619 --> 00:58:31.139
Well, that was because of the illness.

869
00:58:31.199 --> 00:58:33.420
He did have 2 episodes off in the keys of Mariners.

870
00:58:33.480 --> 00:58:36.360
I'm just trying to think this year...

871
00:58:36.480 --> 00:58:38.760
Oh, he had an episode off in the Space Museum.

872
00:58:38.820 --> 00:58:39.480
He had episode three.

873
00:58:39.539 --> 00:58:41.039
Oh, that's right, because he's...

874
00:58:41.039 --> 00:58:42.360
The search deep freeze.

875
00:58:42.480 --> 00:58:43.019
Yeah.

876
00:58:43.019 --> 00:58:43.320
Yeah.

877
00:58:43.619 --> 00:58:43.920
Okay.

878
00:58:43.980 --> 00:58:47.940
So he does have an episode off occasionally and it is sort of a punishing thing.

879
00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:54.960
There's 42 episodes or something in there this season. 45, something crazy. 45, they'd made 9 previously.

880
00:58:55.019 --> 00:58:57.239
But they made another four.

881
00:58:57.300 --> 00:58:59.099
So if you had so, yeah, 40 episodes.

882
00:58:59.159 --> 00:59:00.840
He made he made on the run.

883
00:59:00.900 --> 00:59:01.320
Okay.

884
00:59:01.320 --> 00:59:07.139
It's interesting then to go back to the character of the doctor that he's just his self-duplicity.

885
00:59:07.199 --> 00:59:08.820
Maybe hypocrisy.

886
00:59:08.880 --> 00:59:11.460
He's the one who calls the monk of time meddler.

887
00:59:11.519 --> 00:59:12.300
What does he do?

888
00:59:12.360 --> 00:59:15.000
Yeah, but what does Billy actually do?

889
00:59:15.119 --> 00:59:16.500
I think the monk even says that.

890
00:59:16.559 --> 00:59:17.519
It's like, well what about you?

891
00:59:17.579 --> 00:59:24.119
Well, I don't compare with history except when it's not actually recorded history in the present time, blah.

892
00:59:24.179 --> 00:59:25.980
But there has been a rule.

893
00:59:26.519 --> 00:59:27.239
You know what I mean?

894
00:59:27.300 --> 00:59:31.260
Like a rule that has been fairly that has been fairly consistently.

895
00:59:31.320 --> 00:59:42.059
Um, uh, you know, that there is no danger that um, the doctor will sort of assassinate Nero or, you know, um, he's not going to change.

896
00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:43.440
He's not going to change.

897
00:59:43.559 --> 00:59:45.059
Yeah, that's right.

898
00:59:45.119 --> 00:59:45.539
He don't.

899
00:59:45.539 --> 00:59:47.519
He stops. getting Nero the poison.

900
00:59:47.579 --> 00:59:49.739
Yeah, Vicky, Vicky tries to give Nero poison.

901
00:59:49.800 --> 00:59:53.340
And so and that is a rule.

902
00:59:53.400 --> 00:59:54.179
Do you know what I mean?

903
00:59:54.300 --> 01:00:04.260
And he's one of the, the show doesn't have that many premises in the sense that, you know, the doctor isn't from Gallifrey and the constellation of Conservatus, you know, with the type 40 TARDS.

904
01:00:04.260 --> 01:00:05.099
Conservatus.

905
01:00:05.099 --> 01:00:08.039
The constellation.

906
01:00:08.039 --> 01:00:09.840
None of that sort of stuff is in place yet.

907
01:00:09.900 --> 01:00:13.500
But we do know this, that the doctor can't interfere with history.

908
01:00:13.559 --> 01:00:21.780
And, and, and the fun thing is, the stuff that, like, doesn't he have, he's got hilarious Lionel Hutz.

909
01:00:21.840 --> 01:00:26.880
No, no, he's got a hilarious, um, the guy who sells the monorail to Springfield.

910
01:00:26.940 --> 01:00:29.219
Oh, yes, I don't know his name.

911
01:00:29.280 --> 01:00:30.480
Yeah, yeah, but it's...

912
01:00:30.539 --> 01:00:31.860
He's got that long list.

913
01:00:31.920 --> 01:00:34.019
You know who they find his to-do list?

914
01:00:34.079 --> 01:00:35.099
Yeah, yeah.

915
01:00:35.099 --> 01:00:36.239
Light beacon fires.

916
01:00:36.239 --> 01:00:37.199
Set up later.

917
01:00:37.199 --> 01:00:43.739
Yeah, it's like, give atomic weapons to the invading Vikings or something.

918
01:00:43.800 --> 01:00:47.159
You know, like he has changed history.

919
01:00:47.219 --> 01:00:47.820
Yes.

920
01:00:47.820 --> 01:00:48.599
Yeah.

921
01:00:48.659 --> 01:00:52.019
And he changes history for his own material benefit.

922
01:00:52.079 --> 01:00:55.440
And but also because it's funny, I think, as well.

923
01:00:55.500 --> 01:00:57.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

924
01:00:57.300 --> 01:01:04.260
Oh, do you mean like he puts money in a bank account and then leaps forward and collects the the compound?

925
01:01:04.320 --> 01:01:09.179
And we do see like a few art treasures in the corner of his console room.

926
01:01:09.239 --> 01:01:10.079
Okay, fair.

927
01:01:10.079 --> 01:01:11.280
That kind of thing.

928
01:01:11.340 --> 01:01:14.340
But what I find absolutely lovely.

929
01:01:14.400 --> 01:01:28.619
You've got you've got that thing of him changing time for his own benefit and because he's having fun, but also it means that he can live in a monastery and not be disturbed and have his little electric flight fry pan. and his toaster and his coffee dripper Asia or whatever.

930
01:01:28.679 --> 01:01:35.579
But he doesn't have state of the art, like fancy futuristic appliances, as you were saying, food machine.

931
01:01:35.639 --> 01:01:36.480
It's all content.

932
01:01:36.539 --> 01:01:37.500
Yeah, he doesn't have food machine.

933
01:01:37.559 --> 01:01:40.860
It's all contemporary stuff and he's just squatting in a monastery.

934
01:01:40.920 --> 01:01:43.920
I also think that that just makes the anachronism more fun.

935
01:01:43.980 --> 01:01:44.699
Do you know what I mean?

936
01:01:44.880 --> 01:01:53.699
Like it is, it's the fact that it's a wristwatch like we would have for an electric frying pan like we might just have bought, you know, in the past.

937
01:01:53.760 --> 01:01:58.139
That's much more fun and interesting than some futuristic bliz-bloss device.

938
01:01:58.199 --> 01:01:58.980
You know what I mean?

939
01:01:59.039 --> 01:02:01.380
It's being made by the production team.

940
01:02:01.440 --> 01:02:04.559
It just makes the anachronism much more fun.

941
01:02:04.619 --> 01:02:11.340
And, I mean, this is another case where the quality of the guest star influences Billy's performance.

942
01:02:11.400 --> 01:02:29.940
Because especially in episode 3, when he starts getting the upper hand on the monk and getting into his own habit and making the monk think that he's got a shotgun in his spinal column and he even says like something like, I've got a 12 ball, double barrel shotgun aimed at the bottom of your spinal column. a stick, isn't it?

943
01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:30.840
Yeah, it's a stick.

944
01:02:30.900 --> 01:02:36.719
But, you know, it's the doctor going, I'm going to blow your spine apart.

945
01:02:36.780 --> 01:02:38.519
They're really fun together there.

946
01:02:38.579 --> 01:02:39.960
Yeah, really terrifically fun.

947
01:02:40.019 --> 01:02:40.920
No more monkery.

948
01:02:41.340 --> 01:02:47.760
And the whole, you know, he's from my planet, but he's from 50 years in the future.

949
01:02:47.820 --> 01:02:49.739
Oh, so is Hitard more advanced than you was?

950
01:02:51.179 --> 01:02:54.780
Is his car newer than yours.

951
01:02:56.400 --> 01:03:00.119
Nothing wrong with my car and I prefer walking to a mountain goat any day.

952
01:03:00.179 --> 01:03:00.599
Yes.

953
01:03:00.599 --> 01:03:01.079
Yes.

954
01:03:01.260 --> 01:03:03.539
We never got to see the mountain goat.

955
01:03:03.719 --> 01:03:06.360
We can get the space car helmet.

956
01:03:06.420 --> 01:03:13.320
Now, isn't this, you mentioned earlier, the script editor gets the go of doing the last story with the income.

957
01:03:13.380 --> 01:03:17.219
Is this Wild's 1st John Wild's 1st shot as producer?

958
01:03:17.280 --> 01:03:17.639
No.

959
01:03:17.639 --> 01:03:19.260
No, John R.

960
01:03:19.260 --> 01:03:21.900
This last got his initial. to the unknown.

961
01:03:21.960 --> 01:03:24.960
Yeah, John Wiles was probably in the office following around.

962
01:03:25.019 --> 01:03:26.280
Donald Tosh certainly was.

963
01:03:26.400 --> 01:03:28.139
Tosh was definitely present on this show.

964
01:03:28.199 --> 01:03:35.760
Yeah, Tosh was present and I think because Dennis had wrote it, he sort of edited it with Donald Tosh.

965
01:03:35.820 --> 01:03:40.019
I could be wrong on that, dear listener, if you'd like to write an increase.

966
01:03:40.920 --> 01:03:43.139
Tosh was walking around on it.

967
01:03:43.260 --> 01:03:48.960
I think Tosh did most of the work on Galaxy 4 and then was...

968
01:03:50.880 --> 01:03:56.039
It's kind of, it's kind of weird because Dennis Spooner was still in the production office for the Daleks master plan.

969
01:03:56.099 --> 01:04:02.340
But Verity did most of the pre-production work on the Dalek's master plan, and it was John Welles who actually had it in the studio.

970
01:04:02.400 --> 01:04:08.699
But Donald Tosh was also, like, it was this, it was this weird combination of all 4 of them.

971
01:04:09.059 --> 01:04:16.019
A lot of hateful people who aren't Verity Lambert coming in and start ruining my favourite show. don't we?

972
01:04:16.079 --> 01:04:17.699
Yeah, something's being taken away.

973
01:04:17.760 --> 01:04:36.000
But until that happens, we do have we do still have the lovely lightness of the monk trying to blow up a fleet of ships. with AEO. an atomic laser can. an atomic laser can. actually destroy modern Britain as we know, you're talking about the Battle of Hastings.

974
01:04:36.119 --> 01:04:37.139
We're talking 1066.

975
01:04:37.320 --> 01:04:44.820
Yeah, in fact, it's even more political a thing than Billy interfering with Richard's campaign on the Crusade or...

976
01:04:44.820 --> 01:04:47.579
If only he'd thought of setting fire to Magna Carta.

977
01:04:47.699 --> 01:05:01.860
But what I'm really fascinating about it is he, the monk insists that if he stops this war and this battle and the subsequent wars that came from it, Earth will be more technologically advanced.

978
01:05:01.980 --> 01:05:12.179
But when we look back at the 20th century, Humanity has had its greatest technological advances through war technology that has then been adapted for home use.

979
01:05:12.300 --> 01:05:18.000
And I don't know if that wasn't a popular theory in the 60s or if that was a theory at all, but it's very interesting.

980
01:05:18.059 --> 01:05:25.320
I'm saying this military progression, the space race, it was the thing that was giving us that, you know, JPL, which has been to tang.

981
01:05:25.380 --> 01:05:28.500
No, that's actually Teflon true, but Tang no.

982
01:05:28.980 --> 01:05:32.039
Yeah, no, it was the product that bought into it.

983
01:05:32.099 --> 01:05:33.360
They didn't actually use it.

984
01:05:33.420 --> 01:05:34.920
What are the space food sticks?

985
01:05:34.980 --> 01:05:36.659
Oh, no, again, okay.

986
01:05:36.780 --> 01:05:39.300
Freeze dried ice cream was though.

987
01:05:39.360 --> 01:05:40.079
They didn't they?

988
01:05:40.139 --> 01:05:41.280
There wasn't being up there.

989
01:05:41.340 --> 01:05:42.599
New Gar in other words.

990
01:05:43.199 --> 01:05:50.519
But yeah, the military was seen as a whole equal thing still, that it won our cell security and our safety.

991
01:05:50.579 --> 01:05:57.599
It was Vietnam, however, and Korea before that, Vietnam was about to change all of that in a really conspicuous way.

992
01:05:57.659 --> 01:06:00.960
Because people were finally seeing the war as it happened on the TV.

993
01:06:01.019 --> 01:06:03.000
That's right. another world inside the TV.

994
01:06:03.119 --> 01:06:11.039
And which leads us to another postmodern joke in Doctor Who, where the monkey is saying, but, you know, we'll have all this technology.

995
01:06:11.099 --> 01:06:14.039
Hamlet will prep me air on television and the doctor just sneers down his nose.

996
01:06:14.099 --> 01:06:15.239
Yes, thank you. know the medium.

997
01:06:17.039 --> 01:06:19.199
What a great place then.

998
01:06:19.260 --> 01:06:21.000
It's kind of like, you know what?

999
01:06:21.420 --> 01:06:32.280
You know, Billy... had more faith in film and stage than television, but he still he still kind of slumber on television because he likes the part.

1000
01:06:32.760 --> 01:06:35.460
No, he saw this is his greatest part.

1001
01:06:35.519 --> 01:06:38.219
I think that's just a really nice little nudge in the room.

1002
01:06:39.179 --> 01:06:41.880
Yes, a lantern, as they say.

1003
01:06:41.940 --> 01:06:45.300
Oh, and we've got Althea Charlton back again.

1004
01:06:45.360 --> 01:06:49.019
Um, her from um, The old woman.

1005
01:06:49.079 --> 01:06:50.039
No, no, the young one.

1006
01:06:50.099 --> 01:06:50.579
Oh, her.

1007
01:06:51.420 --> 01:06:53.340
That's, you know, using names.

1008
01:06:53.340 --> 01:06:56.099
And Spike Jones would say...

1009
01:06:56.099 --> 01:06:58.079
Poor Alethea Charlton.

1010
01:06:58.139 --> 01:07:08.940
She's, you know, pillaged, can I just say, to avoid the explicit tag by Sven and Ulf and their Viking mates.

1011
01:07:09.000 --> 01:07:11.099
She's pillaged into Catatonia.

1012
01:07:11.159 --> 01:07:15.360
And then I think it might be the one area where Spooner doesn't balance the drive.

1013
01:07:15.360 --> 01:07:18.119
At the moments later, she's up making them tea or something.

1014
01:07:18.179 --> 01:07:21.360
But the tea had been invented, but making them something.

1015
01:07:21.420 --> 01:07:25.019
There is a scene there where she's just sitting there and not saying anything.

1016
01:07:25.079 --> 01:07:28.139
Yeah, staring off into space and that is that is quite harrowing.

1017
01:07:28.199 --> 01:07:30.900
But it was just horrible lapse of tone, really.

1018
01:07:31.019 --> 01:07:32.460
Yeah, we didn't need to have it.

1019
01:07:32.519 --> 01:07:37.019
But at the same time, I think children watching at the time may not have picked up on it.

1020
01:07:37.079 --> 01:07:40.500
You know, they would have thought that they scared her or something like that.

1021
01:07:40.559 --> 01:07:43.440
Yeah, but I mean, really, you know, they're Vikings.

1022
01:07:43.500 --> 01:07:46.260
Even if they're comedy vocals.

1023
01:07:46.320 --> 01:07:46.679
Yes.

1024
01:07:46.920 --> 01:07:48.300
Yes.

1025
01:07:48.360 --> 01:07:52.500
It is a very odd moment and oh, to overanalyse it.

1026
01:07:52.559 --> 01:07:56.039
It's something that Barbara was threatened with constantly and never happened.

1027
01:07:56.099 --> 01:07:58.139
And now that Barbara's gone, it's happened to someone.

1028
01:07:58.199 --> 01:08:00.960
You know, someone has been attacked in that way.

1029
01:08:01.019 --> 01:08:09.900
So the show's going to take a turn into nastiness because it's no longer grounded by the need to have Ian and Barbara in it.

1030
01:08:09.960 --> 01:08:12.539
And this is going to be huge in season three.

1031
01:08:12.599 --> 01:08:19.319
Spoiler alert, that the show does things which I think that Doctor Who probably ought not to be doing.

1032
01:08:19.380 --> 01:08:20.880
Oh, and Billy thought that as well.

1033
01:08:20.939 --> 01:08:29.100
And it is, I think it's freed up. by not having things resembling real people in it anymore.

1034
01:08:29.159 --> 01:08:30.000
Yeah.

1035
01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:32.699
And like however good Peter Purvis is.

1036
01:08:32.760 --> 01:08:37.199
He has like a really thin backstory.

1037
01:08:37.979 --> 01:08:42.300
And like he's virtually just there to do whatever the plot requires.

1038
01:08:42.359 --> 01:08:43.920
He's where...

1039
01:08:43.979 --> 01:08:47.279
He's a young and sporty combination of bulldog drama.

1040
01:08:47.279 --> 01:08:50.880
He conducts the Douglas Vader, who, you know, was the...

1041
01:08:50.880 --> 01:08:59.220
But in Galaxy 4, next year, he's going to be wearing Barbara's cardigan and sort of... muelling in an airlock.

1042
01:08:59.220 --> 01:09:00.840
Could that be the title of that one?

1043
01:09:00.840 --> 01:09:06.899
But do you know what I mean?

1044
01:09:06.960 --> 01:09:13.800
Like he's gotten really no discernable characteristics at all. so it does stop grounding the show, I think, in a way.

1045
01:09:13.859 --> 01:09:16.739
And so that, let's call that. foil to Billy, isn't he?

1046
01:09:16.800 --> 01:09:18.180
And he does a great job of that.

1047
01:09:18.239 --> 01:09:19.439
He compliments him perfectly.

1048
01:09:19.500 --> 01:09:26.819
But let's see the pillaging of Alethea as the harbinger of terrible things to calm.

1049
01:09:26.939 --> 01:09:28.140
Yes, yes.

1050
01:09:28.199 --> 01:09:35.520
Well, on that, on that downbeat note, we move into our prize giving art section.

1051
01:09:43.739 --> 01:09:49.199
The Jenny Laird Award for most puzzling creative choice.

1052
01:09:49.260 --> 01:09:50.399
Gentlemen, do we have any thoughts?

1053
01:09:50.460 --> 01:10:06.720
Well, I mean, we've touched on it already, but it really has to go to Richard Martin, who is a lovely man, undoubtedly a lovely man, and he, you know, the cravat is great, and on the DVD extras, he's just, he just seems gorgeous.

1054
01:10:06.779 --> 01:10:13.319
But why is Edmund Warwick cast when he looks absolutely nothing like the doctor at all?

1055
01:10:13.439 --> 01:10:16.319
to be the doctor's robot replica?

1056
01:10:16.380 --> 01:10:19.439
And like the whole way that's directed is really confusing?

1057
01:10:19.500 --> 01:10:34.560
Because I think Edmund Warwick looking nothing like Bill Hartnell is actually meant to be the doctor at one and, you know, like it's it's not that story isn't really a triumph of the televisual art, to be honest, however much I adore it.

1058
01:10:34.619 --> 01:10:38.159
And that's really its huge downfall.

1059
01:10:38.220 --> 01:10:41.579
So Richard Martin, possibly Edmund Warwick, why not?

1060
01:10:41.640 --> 01:10:42.720
They could share it.

1061
01:10:43.619 --> 01:10:58.920
I had Richard Martin as well, but for other reasons, and I just, I think that it shows how the 70s would come about to get it right and that you had more than one voice on the floor more than one face.

1062
01:10:58.979 --> 01:11:04.199
And I think when you saw how Barry Letts is going to work with Terence Dix together.

1063
01:11:04.260 --> 01:11:20.699
Martin is we've touched on before, would have been terrific if they could have afforded, say, a Dougie Campfield along with him, or if the gentleness of Richard Martin and the character were, Dougie Stan, Canfield stands by himself, he doesn't need anyone else along.

1064
01:11:20.760 --> 01:11:27.539
But most of the other directors do, and having someone else there, maybe just more verity on the floor, who knows?

1065
01:11:27.600 --> 01:11:31.199
We just know how busy they all were and how really tightly these things were produced.

1066
01:11:31.260 --> 01:11:32.760
This was live theatre.

1067
01:11:32.819 --> 01:11:36.539
So it's extraordinary that what we see is even watchable today.

1068
01:11:36.600 --> 01:11:39.180
Well, I mean they're not even directing from the floor, are they?

1069
01:11:39.239 --> 01:11:39.899
They're up in the control.

1070
01:11:40.020 --> 01:11:48.119
No, they're under control. chatting down, but you know, you look at other shows at the time that are on that are available, such as we've mentioned before the Avengers.

1071
01:11:48.180 --> 01:11:49.739
Long, that's actually pretty clunky.

1072
01:11:49.739 --> 01:12:00.359
And that was, if not, not actually such a big budget show, but primetime viewing, it was absolutely right on the on the edge of popularity, this being the biggest thing there.

1073
01:12:00.420 --> 01:12:02.460
Doctor Who looks better frequently.

1074
01:12:03.779 --> 01:12:06.060
Phrases you rarely hear.

1075
01:12:06.119 --> 01:12:07.079
Yeah, yeah.

1076
01:12:07.920 --> 01:12:11.640
Well, I think I think my award for most puzzling creative choice.

1077
01:12:11.699 --> 01:12:14.039
It's something we've already touched upon again.

1078
01:12:14.100 --> 01:12:29.220
But I think it has to, for me, be Dennis Spooner's treatment of women in his scripts because he has some very strong roles, but for him, the his ultimate threat for a woman is for a man to attack her sexually.

1079
01:12:29.520 --> 01:12:32.460
And that has been a lot of that, hasn't it?

1080
01:12:32.520 --> 01:12:45.720
Yeah, but it just seems to come up a lot with Dennis Spooner because he does it quote unquote comedically in the Romans and then does it quite seriously in the time meddler.

1081
01:12:45.720 --> 01:12:47.760
And I just...

1082
01:12:47.760 --> 01:12:53.220
I understand the sexual politics of the time were different, but in...

1083
01:12:53.279 --> 01:12:56.279
We also had a lot of that in season one as well with Barbara, so...

1084
01:12:56.279 --> 01:12:56.880
Pre-Dennis.

1085
01:12:56.939 --> 01:12:57.960
In so, yeah.

1086
01:12:58.020 --> 01:13:04.319
In so many other ways, though, his characterisation, and certainly the way he writes Barbara and Vicki, is very strong.

1087
01:13:04.380 --> 01:13:06.600
You know, they're very strong characters.

1088
01:13:06.659 --> 01:13:09.840
So I'm using the word puzzling in that.

1089
01:13:09.960 --> 01:13:12.779
Why that weird tension?

1090
01:13:12.840 --> 01:13:18.899
of, you know, we've got these strong women who can push the plot along by themselves.

1091
01:13:18.960 --> 01:13:25.439
They don't need a man to guide them through the plot, but at the same time, that is a way to imperil them.

1092
01:13:25.500 --> 01:13:30.479
But, you know, that is a topic for a whole other podcast.

1093
01:13:30.539 --> 01:13:33.000
We could do a whole series on that topic.

1094
01:13:33.060 --> 01:13:36.539
Um, Recommendations, gentlemen.

1095
01:13:36.600 --> 01:13:37.859
Yeah, I have.

1096
01:13:37.920 --> 01:13:40.140
Further reading homework for you at home.

1097
01:13:40.199 --> 01:13:51.479
Oh, this is, again, maybe because these are sort of early recommendations and things I'm sort of treading, you know, over sort of rather obvious ones and, you know, last time it was about time.

1098
01:13:51.539 --> 01:13:52.920
So I'm going to do the same thing.

1099
01:13:52.979 --> 01:13:56.699
It's also published by a mad Norwegian press and it's called running through corridors.

1100
01:13:56.760 --> 01:14:01.140
And it is really, really spectacular.

1101
01:14:01.199 --> 01:14:14.939
It's Rob Shearman, who wrote Dalek and Toby Hadoke, who's famous for stand-up comedy about life as a Doctor Who fan and is on a 100000000000 DVD extras at this point.

1102
01:14:15.000 --> 01:14:18.359
And just both of them seem like lovely people.

1103
01:14:18.420 --> 01:14:22.439
We had Rob Shearman out at that convention that Barbara Joss was that actually.

1104
01:14:22.500 --> 01:14:24.359
So he did get to meet him and he is very nice.

1105
01:14:24.420 --> 01:14:28.140
Toby Hadoke's sort of public persona is that he's terrific as well.

1106
01:14:28.199 --> 01:14:31.319
And the idea is that they're, they go through a year.

1107
01:14:32.579 --> 01:14:34.739
And they're watching all of 60s Doctor Who.

1108
01:14:34.859 --> 01:14:40.859
They threaten to put out a 70s and 80s volume, but there's no sign of them so far.

1109
01:14:40.920 --> 01:14:43.199
So it's 60s Doctor Who. the stuff that we're talking about.

1110
01:14:43.260 --> 01:14:56.159
And each day they watch 2 episodes and then they write to each other about them and their aim is to be really positive about every episode and that doesn't mean that they overlook the floors or their polyannarish or anything like that.

1111
01:14:56.220 --> 01:14:59.819
But it's a really, really fun read.

1112
01:14:59.880 --> 01:15:08.579
And, you know, they're actual television professionals, so they have some idea what they're talking about, unlike, you know, some podcasts.

1113
01:15:09.239 --> 01:15:12.060
And like I really recommend it.

1114
01:15:12.060 --> 01:15:16.380
And it is also available on Kindle, although other e-readers are also available.

1115
01:15:17.039 --> 01:15:18.840
Well, for me?

1116
01:15:18.899 --> 01:15:25.739
Well, we mentioned David Whittaker last time in the passing of David Whittaker from the production of something that I still feel really sorely.

1117
01:15:25.800 --> 01:15:26.819
I think is terrific.

1118
01:15:27.060 --> 01:15:31.680
We mentioned his 2 target novels, novelisations.

1119
01:15:31.739 --> 01:15:43.500
But the loyal listener, Greg Miller, reminded me just today that his other great work, maybe greatest of all of post-doctor Who, is the TV 21 Dalek strip.

1120
01:15:43.560 --> 01:15:44.520
He wrote that.

1121
01:15:44.579 --> 01:15:52.979
So the whole original backstory, Golden Emperor, the weird and Actually, look, it's complex.

1122
01:15:53.039 --> 01:15:54.119
It, brilliant, it's interesting.

1123
01:15:54.180 --> 01:15:55.079
It's in beautiful colour.

1124
01:15:55.140 --> 01:16:07.260
It was on the back page of the Jerry Anderson comic book that was sold as if it were a newspaper, beautifully produced, really graphic and gorgeous started in 1965.

1125
01:16:07.500 --> 01:16:11.159
Um, as I say, Whittaker had the back page.

1126
01:16:11.220 --> 01:16:13.500
It ran for about 104 issues.

1127
01:16:13.560 --> 01:16:15.180
It's been reprinted a couple of times.

1128
01:16:15.300 --> 01:16:16.920
I have seen PDFs on the net.

1129
01:16:16.979 --> 01:16:18.180
So it still is out there.

1130
01:16:18.239 --> 01:16:27.840
It's just got lovely stuff on, you'll see more of that when we get to Dalek master plan of that backstory, but it's just really nicely written, like everything David Rutaker does.

1131
01:16:27.899 --> 01:16:32.939
Oh, I mean, Whittaker does the 2 great trout and dialect stories, doesn't he?

1132
01:16:33.000 --> 01:16:33.659
Yes, please.

1133
01:16:33.720 --> 01:16:37.020
And he, I mean, he really creates the Daleks in a big way.

1134
01:16:37.079 --> 01:16:37.979
He understands them really well.

1135
01:16:38.039 --> 01:16:44.279
So this is very much a sideways and just as important part of the Doctor Who Dalek universe.

1136
01:16:44.340 --> 01:16:45.479
It's all stupid.

1137
01:16:45.539 --> 01:16:53.399
Um, I'm just going to say now with the your 2 responses to the Whitaker Travel stories, it's going to be interesting when we get there.

1138
01:16:54.479 --> 01:16:56.640
With my opinion, let's see.

1139
01:16:56.640 --> 01:16:58.500
I was going to put that out there.

1140
01:16:58.560 --> 01:17:05.100
Okay, my recommendation is something that's been around for a while, but I showed you guys recently and you hadn't seen it before.

1141
01:17:05.159 --> 01:17:07.439
So we'll put it on the website as well.

1142
01:17:07.680 --> 01:17:09.960
It'll be in the show notes.

1143
01:17:09.960 --> 01:17:13.319
It'll be in the show notes. on the podcast app.

1144
01:17:13.380 --> 01:17:13.920
That's right.

1145
01:17:13.979 --> 01:17:15.180
Whatever podcast app you.

1146
01:17:15.180 --> 01:17:16.979
That'll be my show notes.

1147
01:17:18.119 --> 01:17:26.819
But when Milton Sabotsky acquired the rights to produce the 2 Dalek films that were made.

1148
01:17:26.939 --> 01:17:34.140
The documentation shows that he also require also acquired rights to another Terry Nation script.

1149
01:17:34.199 --> 01:17:36.720
Yeah, and they were also looking at doing Marco Poland.

1150
01:17:36.779 --> 01:17:38.279
They were looking at doing Marco Polo.

1151
01:17:38.340 --> 01:17:42.420
Now, the 3rd terri nation script in the notes, I believe is unnamed.

1152
01:17:42.479 --> 01:17:45.300
So a lot of people have assumed it was the chase.

1153
01:17:45.359 --> 01:17:51.720
There are other people who say that's unlikely because of how quickly the Daleks was produced.

1154
01:17:51.779 --> 01:17:53.279
Because of marinus, wasn't it?

1155
01:17:53.340 --> 01:17:55.020
Apparently it was keys of marinus.

1156
01:17:55.079 --> 01:17:59.520
And hence they skipped keys of marinus to do Dalek Invasion Universe because that had Dalek said.

1157
01:17:59.579 --> 01:18:14.159
However, a gentleman by the name of Andrew Alton has made a 4 minute trailer for what the 3rd Peter Cushing Doctor Who film could have been called Daleks versus Mecons.

1158
01:18:16.319 --> 01:18:18.899
It's very, it's very well made.

1159
01:18:18.960 --> 01:18:26.159
So, in Eastman colour, that lovely irrogated faded red that you get from every eastern print you look at now.

1160
01:18:26.279 --> 01:18:49.920
So it's a combination of clips from the 2 existing Cushing films, new animation, and also casts Jim Dale as the male supporting leader, Angela Douglas, as the female lead, and still features Peter Cushing and Roberta Toby, and some other surprise actors as well, who I won't mention because when I showed it to Richard and Nathan and they saw those actors, they just roared with laughter.

1161
01:18:50.220 --> 01:18:53.640
But yeah, it only takes 4 minutes out of your day.

1162
01:18:53.699 --> 01:18:56.279
So if you, hey, if you've already listened this far.

1163
01:18:56.579 --> 01:19:01.260
You've got plenty of time you can do with another 4 minutes of Doctor Who.

1164
01:19:01.319 --> 01:19:11.760
Now, before we close for the date, we did have a little bit of consternation when we were assigning stories for this podcast, not everyone got what they wanted in terms of stories to discuss.

1165
01:19:11.819 --> 01:19:27.960
And so Richard came up with an idea, which was to use the website that Nathan runs called the randomiser, which chooses Randomiser.net, which chooses a random Doctor Who story for you to watch.

1166
01:19:28.020 --> 01:19:33.659
Richard came up with the concept to use that to decide which stories we're going to look at each season.

1167
01:19:33.720 --> 01:19:40.260
So following Richard's suggestion, I have actually used the randomiser to decide which stories we're going to be doing next season.

1168
01:19:40.319 --> 01:19:43.020
Nathan, your stories.

1169
01:19:43.079 --> 01:19:45.119
Should you choose to accept them or not?

1170
01:19:45.180 --> 01:19:52.020
And I really don't care whether you choose to accept them because you've got them now, you have got the myth makers. the gunfighters.

1171
01:19:52.500 --> 01:19:54.420
Well, hooray and the savages.

1172
01:19:54.479 --> 01:19:55.739
Which is really good.

1173
01:19:55.800 --> 01:19:57.359
And 3 for three.

1174
01:19:57.479 --> 01:20:00.659
Richard, meanwhile, you have the massacre.

1175
01:20:00.720 --> 01:20:02.819
Good, because I begged for that.

1176
01:20:02.880 --> 01:20:05.279
The celestial toy maker.

1177
01:20:06.779 --> 01:20:09.180
Am I ecopathy?

1178
01:20:09.239 --> 01:20:12.000
Oh, so trooping in expectation.

1179
01:20:12.060 --> 01:20:13.500
And the war machines.

1180
01:20:13.560 --> 01:20:14.699
Oh, goody.

1181
01:20:14.939 --> 01:20:18.300
So that leaves me, Galaxy 4.

1182
01:20:18.539 --> 01:20:19.500
Hooray.

1183
01:20:19.500 --> 01:20:20.819
Mission to the unknown.

1184
01:20:20.819 --> 01:20:23.279
And the Ark.

1185
01:20:23.340 --> 01:20:27.720
Now, eagle eared listeners, the Eagles have good hearing?

1186
01:20:27.779 --> 01:20:28.920
I don't know.

1187
01:20:28.979 --> 01:20:29.699
Yeah, they must do.

1188
01:20:30.119 --> 01:20:33.479
Eagle Ed listeners will notice I didn't mention the Dalek master plan.

1189
01:20:33.539 --> 01:20:42.479
We decided that occasionally a story is sort of so big or so iconic that it's not really fair to give it to one person to lead the discussion on.

1190
01:20:42.539 --> 01:20:45.659
So the Dalek Master plan will be discussed by all of us.

1191
01:20:45.960 --> 01:20:49.319
I just plan to interrupt whoever. you know what I mean?

1192
01:20:49.380 --> 01:20:51.119
Yeah, say what I'm going to say.

1193
01:20:51.180 --> 01:20:53.699
I know you're gonna...

1194
01:20:54.420 --> 01:20:58.079
So yeah, we're going to be using the randomiser each month to decide who's doing what story?

1195
01:20:58.140 --> 01:21:06.960
With one caveat in that Richard did also say that if we have an absolute all-time favourite Doctor Who story. probably appropriate for us to lead that.

1196
01:21:07.020 --> 01:21:08.520
So that's why Richard's doing the massacre.

1197
01:21:08.579 --> 01:21:11.579
There's a particular story I will be doing later during...

1198
01:21:11.579 --> 01:21:19.920
There's a particular story I will be doing later during the Tom Baker era, which is my all-time favourite, and Nathan is yet to decide. really have a favourite.

1199
01:21:20.039 --> 01:21:21.060
They're terrible.

1200
01:21:21.119 --> 01:21:22.319
What the hell is this show?

1201
01:21:25.380 --> 01:21:29.220
What are you young people doing outside my podcast?

1202
01:21:29.340 --> 01:21:32.220
Right, so...

1203
01:21:35.279 --> 01:21:37.439
That is it.

1204
01:21:37.500 --> 01:21:38.939
That's Doctor Who series two.

1205
01:21:39.000 --> 01:21:42.000
It only took us 15 hours to record.

1206
01:21:42.060 --> 01:21:49.979
For those of you at home, our recording apparatus currently registers that we've been talking for 3 hours and 49 minutes.

1207
01:21:50.039 --> 01:21:55.020
So as it is, we're going to head off and grab a bite to eat.

1208
01:21:55.319 --> 01:21:58.020
So I'm going to sign off.

1209
01:21:58.079 --> 01:21:59.279
This is chugging in the corner.

1210
01:21:59.340 --> 01:22:02.939
I'm going to sign off and say good night.

1211
01:22:03.060 --> 01:22:05.399
Flight through entirety is.

1212
01:22:05.460 --> 01:22:06.720
We need to come up with another thing.

1213
01:22:06.779 --> 01:22:09.899
Flighters, flyers, flyers, flighty listeners.

1214
01:22:09.960 --> 01:22:10.979
Eternists.

1215
01:22:10.979 --> 01:22:11.939
Eternists.

1216
01:22:12.000 --> 01:22:12.960
No, that's eternity.

1217
01:22:13.020 --> 01:22:15.659
We didn't even mention that anyway, forget it.

1218
01:22:15.720 --> 01:22:16.800
Goodbye, everyone.

1219
01:22:17.159 --> 01:22:19.319
Thank you for your patience.

1220
01:22:19.380 --> 01:22:20.640
Talk to you next time.

1221
01:22:20.699 --> 01:22:27.119
If anybody has a name suggestion for what to call ourselves, write it on the back of a postcard or just write it on our website.

1222
01:22:27.180 --> 01:22:27.899
Goodbye.

1223
01:22:27.960 --> 01:22:28.920
We'll see it.

1224
01:22:35.039 --> 01:22:41.460
You have been listening to Flight Through Entirety with Robot Nathan Botomley, Robot Brendan Jones and Robot Richard Stone.

1225
01:22:41.520 --> 01:22:45.300
This episode, she's Madame Mao, was recorded on Sunday, July the 6th.

1226
01:22:45.359 --> 01:22:47.939
The next episode will be released on August 24th.

1227
01:22:48.000 --> 01:22:55.140
You can find us online at flightthroughentirety.com, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes or no success, paramount success.

1228
01:22:55.199 --> 01:22:58.619
I am completely indistinguishable from the original.

1229
01:23:01.739 --> 01:23:02.760
Uh, so...

1230
01:23:02.760 --> 01:23:05.760
Um, so we've got this idea.

1231
01:23:05.819 --> 01:23:07.739
Sorry, I'm just gonna wait for the siren to go.

1232
01:23:13.800 --> 01:23:15.239
Because it will it will pick up on that.

1233
01:23:15.300 --> 01:23:16.199
Yeah, no, I know.

1234
01:23:16.260 --> 01:23:17.220
We had sirens on it before.

1235
01:23:27.600 --> 01:23:28.199
Success.

1236
01:23:28.260 --> 01:23:29.760
Paramount success.

1237
01:23:29.819 --> 01:23:33.300
I'm completely indistinguishable from the original.