WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 16:01:11

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Ladies and gentlemen, we're finally there, the end of season two.

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All right.

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No, we're not done yet.

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What?

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Well, this will be the end of summer.

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Oh, okay.

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So we can't go home or anything.

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We can't go to the map now.

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No, not yet.

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We will be going to...

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Well, Nathan, you won't be going to the pub because you don't go

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to the pub, do you?

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No, that would be very wrong.

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No, that's right.

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So I'm going to shut up and let you introduce the episode.

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Sorry.

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Right.

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Yes, as I was saying before, I was so mildly, accurately

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interrupting.

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This is the last of our podcasts for Doctor Who season two, where

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we are going to be discussing the Space Museum, the chase and the

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time meddler.

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Oh, 3 very important stories in the history of Doctor Who.

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So I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Richard.

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And we're going to start straight away by jumping a time track.

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There it is.

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And, uh, Richard doing some foreshadowing there and starting off

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on the Space Museum, which, um, it's a very interesting story

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because much like an unearthly child.

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It's sort of 2 stories in one.

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It's a 1st episode where lots of interesting and strange things

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happen.

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And then the next 3 episodes take on a far more traditional action

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adventure approach.

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Nathan is shaking his head violently, but as this is my story, I'm

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going to keep talking now.

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That doesn't really work on a podcast.

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That's why I narrated it.

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Okay, I could hold up a sign maybe.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I think a sign would be very well in a podcast.

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I'm just going to talk about the 1st episode for now and then

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we'll talk a bit more about that and then we'll talk about the

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thing at a whole...

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The 1st episode is absolutely marvellous.

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You know, you've got that scene in the TARDIS where everyone's

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frozen and suddenly that all their clothes end up back in the

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wardrobe, which I just thought was brilliant. really naughty on

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radio.

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Not too real.

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They do have other clothes.

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Especially seeing as Barbara's observation is, Doctor, we've got

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our clothes on.

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Well, I should hope so, dear.

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Does work on audio, yeah.

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Well, funnily enough, one of the Planets Scara audios we did, and

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the line that got cut was halfway through a scene, I mean, my

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character actually declares, good God, I'm naked.

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That was an ad lib, which got cut out, sadly.

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We have that bit.

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And we find out later that the reason that they're closed are back

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in the wardrobe and they've got their regular clothes on is

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because they've arrived out of sequence so they didn't get to see

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you or remember putting their clothes on.

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Yeah, it's the kind of thing that makes Mel's timeline in trial of

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a time lord look perfectly straightforward.

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That was a very Mervin Pinfield thing, wasn't it?

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Oh, I'm not criticising it. the side jump thing.

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I'm not criticising it.

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It's a great way to straight away introduce that all is not

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right.

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But in a non-threatening way.

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Well, it throws up a puzzle.

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Yeah, acoustic kind of thing, but with...

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It's curiously, completely unfazed by it.

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Well, it saved us a lot of time.

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I think he's still suffering oxygen starvation from the water, so

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we just snorted all the way through that and the crusades. and now

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he's like, woo, it's all the way.

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Just asphyxia.

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I do want, it's a little thing, but I really want to, and I'm

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going to do this a lot more later on.

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I'm going to praise Maureen O'Brien for her performance in that

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opening scene where she drops a glass of water and just comes in

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and I've never seen someone in the show up until this point, do

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such a good job of silent acting where she just gives the water to

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the doctor and just sort of stares at it.

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Like she's waiting for something to happen.

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You know, it's not fear.

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It's genuine sort of is it going to break apart again, which when

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you consider it's currently being held up to the doctor's face and

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she's watching for it to shatter. slightly sinister.

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Um, and then you get the very eerie 1st episode, which, um, has a

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lot in common with Stephen King's later story, the Langolias, the

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idea that of these people landing in a place which should be

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crowded, but is deserted in this case a museum in the case of

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Stephen King and Airport.

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Um, and coming to the realisation that they are out of sync with

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the time frame, which is also what happens in the Langoliers, which

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I think Stephen King wrote in the late 70s and was adapted for

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television in the 90s.

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I remember that.

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Did it have scary, creepy monsters that hate people?

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It did.

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Spoiler alert, sorry.

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And I, um, Stephen King a lot like, um, Matt Grooning and another

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writer I can't think of at the moment.

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Joe Michael Strazinsky have all said that they did watch Doctor

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Who.

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And not necessarily that it was an influence on their writing, but

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it did inform their writing.

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So Stephen King may have seen this at some point or that it's a

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bit more difficult with the black and white stories.

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Uh, and so we have a very, very eerie 1st episode.

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Very well punctuated by great use of stock music and also the fact

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that we just follow the regulars around, you know, we see the

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aliens on the planet, but we don't get an inkling into their world

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until episode two.

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I mean, that's not that uncommon in this period, is it?

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The keys of mariner starts that way, sort of.

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It takes a while to get to Arbitan anyway.

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And the Daleks is just the regulars and that sort of thing.

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Like starting in that, you know, where they're exploring and

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working out where they are and it's just the regulars

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interacting.

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That's unlike that. you know, and that, that is one of the things

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that we've lost in the, in the shortening of the...

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And giving the time to do it.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, most episodes is often so strong in this season.

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Yeah.

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Where Planet does the same thing.

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It's all just...

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Yeah, they just wander around...

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It gives them a lot of time to interact and chat and stuff.

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Melt ties.

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That's right.

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And we get we get that wonderful subversive moment because of

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course Dalek Mania was at its peak.

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I think I think it was around this time that the 1st movie Doctor

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Who and the Daleks came out. certainly was.

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So they come around a corner and there's Dalek and Ian Barbara and

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the doctor just sort of recoil in horror and Vicky's like, oh.

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Oh, hello.

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Oh, he's a bit cute, isn't he?

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Oh, so cute.

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Which has never seen one.

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No, no, she's the supermod 60s girl, even though she's from the

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future of 60s.

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She just too cool for Dr. D. No, it's just that it's a great piece

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of Popeye.

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She has said several times that history is not her strong suit.

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She focussed on sciences.

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Because she says, you know, I learned astrophysics, so I learned

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chemistry.

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I learned biology.

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She never mentioned...

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Yeah, when she was five.

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By taking a pill. 10 whole minutes a day.

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But that kind of works that Vicky's heard of them, but she doesn't

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know what they look like.

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It's kind of like...

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I've I've heard of Genghis Khan.

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Yeah, they wouldn't be, didn't they?

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Yes, I wouldn't know exactly what he would like.

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Well, you should subscribe to his YouTube channel.

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Oh, dear.

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Well, I've seen the Monty Python version.

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I think that's good enough for me.

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So, yep, wonderful, uh, trippy, strange experimental 1st episode

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uh, followed by a 3 a 3 episode adventure story, which I still

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think is very good, but I'm going to throw it to you guys.

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Well, I actually think that I think that, you know, that's the

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standard way of discussing this story is that it's that it's one

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really inventive episode followed by 3 rather plotting episodes.

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But I do think that the issue introduced by the 1st episode is

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like runs all the way through, the rest of it, and it is, it's

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that deterministic thing.

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It's to what degree do we have the ability to affect our own

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future by our action.

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So there's a kind of going to go all Richard here on this one.

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There's a kind of sort of existential thing going on here.

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And so it looks dramatic in its expression.

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I was actually wondering when German expression.

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I was determined not to kill the German expression. joke, the way

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that I'm slowly killing the joke about monsters turning up in

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historical story.

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Okay, so you've got they've got a predetermined fate.

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The episode, the story looks like it's going to head towards them

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ending up in a case.

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So all of their efforts for the rest of the story are about

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avoiding that.

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And so the 3 of them end up kind of separating and taking quite

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different approaches in order to do that.

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So Barbara gets locked in a room and gets to rescue someone, the

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doctor actually fails and ends up looks like he's going to end up

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in the case.

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Ian what gets a gun and tries to rescue the doctor or something

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sort of tiresome.

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And then Vicky, you know, like you're obviously going to want to

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talk about Vicky fomenting revolution because she's just truly

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superb.

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And those are 3 different approaches that look like they're going

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to end up, you know, they all are sort of quite promising, but it

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all goes horribly wrong and they all end up in the preparation

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room together and it really looks like, you know, they've reached

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the wall.

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There is absolutely no way of escaping their fate.

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So all of that determinism thing is set up in episode one in that

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strange way.

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It sort of sets up a puzzle.

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Or, you know, in a way that we're kind of unused to Doctor Who

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operating.

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It's sort of a higher concept sort of thing, a sort of Star Trek

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kind of thing in a way and not a Doctor Who thing.

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And I think that all of that works very well.

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And I think the whole thing is charmingly short circuited by the

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fact that Barbara is wearing her cardigan in the museum case.

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And then they unravel her cardigan in order to find their way

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around the museum.

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So clearly...

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But doesn't that mean that they've changed history and they escape

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from their fate of ending up inside the thing?

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So I'm choosing to not see that as a production gap.

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I'm deciding that that is, in fact, a deliberate precursor to the

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fact that they do, in fact, escape spoiler alert and they don't

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end up as exhibits in museum cases.

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So, yeah.

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I do think if it was made down, that would actually be made the

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plot point.

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Like at the end.

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Well, I suppose it will be it will be Peter Capellio now, but if

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it had been made in the Matt Smith story, Matt Smith would turn

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around and say, no, you can't process us and put us in cases.

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Why not?

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Because I've just destroyed my bowtie.

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The doctor, speaking of which, the doctor's really massively

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doctor-ish in this. with the, you know, does not give a crap.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And he's dismissive of low boss is like in the chair sort of thing

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being experimented on and ask questions.

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He sees the penny farming, which as a fan of the prisoner.

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The whole walruses?

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That whole scene for me is actually much more cream Monty Python.

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Richard Lester and the Beatles hard day's night.

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That's showing how mod and funky the doctor is.

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It really is the coolest thing that anyone could possibly be in

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that situation.

251
00:11:52.980 --> 00:11:56.759
And it is it is very doctor-ish. is very much how the doctor will

252
00:11:56.759 --> 00:11:58.019
end up, you know.

253
00:11:58.080 --> 00:11:59.279
And it's very swifty.

254
00:11:59.340 --> 00:12:01.019
The doctor is a Jonathan Swift character.

255
00:12:01.080 --> 00:12:01.860
He's a bit of Gulliver.

256
00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:05.100
And then he goes to these odd places and has a rhyme

257
00:12:05.100 --> 00:12:07.259
intellectual...

258
00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:08.159
Can I have a loud thing?

259
00:12:08.220 --> 00:12:09.779
I'm not going to talk about Jonathan Swift.

260
00:12:09.840 --> 00:12:11.159
He annoys me.

261
00:12:11.220 --> 00:12:14.220
He's on my enemies list with C.S. Lewis.

262
00:12:14.279 --> 00:12:14.820
Really?

263
00:12:14.820 --> 00:12:18.899
Well, in that case, I will circuit break here.

264
00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:22.320
I also love that. that scene with Billy.

265
00:12:22.379 --> 00:12:26.220
And the thing I really love about it is Billy in the Victorian

266
00:12:26.220 --> 00:12:26.820
bathing suit.

267
00:12:26.940 --> 00:12:28.019
Yes.

268
00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:32.159
And the fact that the doctor sort of sees that and goes, oh, like

269
00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:35.159
yes, I remember that that weekend in Brighton. fantastic.

270
00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:39.720
And actually, having a look at my notes here, Rob noticed the

271
00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:40.500
cardigan as well.

272
00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:44.039
More cardigan stuff in the chase. in the chase coming up.

273
00:12:44.100 --> 00:12:44.460
Yes.

274
00:12:44.519 --> 00:12:48.120
But what you were saying there about everyone takes different

275
00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:48.419
roots.

276
00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:53.519
Everyone takes roots that we've already seen on the show.

277
00:12:53.580 --> 00:12:57.120
Like someone, someone always gets captured, but it's turned on its

278
00:12:57.120 --> 00:12:58.679
head this time because it's a doctor getting captured.

279
00:12:58.740 --> 00:12:59.639
Yeah, yeah.

280
00:12:59.700 --> 00:13:03.120
Barbara turns her usual thing on the head because it's like, okay

281
00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:06.240
she's getting gas, but actually, it's the freedom fighter who

282
00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:08.639
collapses and Barbara gets to rescue it.

283
00:13:08.700 --> 00:13:10.320
She almost shrugs and rolls her eyes.

284
00:13:10.379 --> 00:13:12.779
She picks him up, like, fine, I'll carry you out of here.

285
00:13:12.840 --> 00:13:16.860
Ian actually just does the thing that Ian does, which is he grabs

286
00:13:16.860 --> 00:13:18.659
a weapon and goes for the brute approach.

287
00:13:18.779 --> 00:13:20.700
He is surprisingly dark in this one.

288
00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:25.620
He actually wants to get even tastier than Billy was in Romans and

289
00:13:25.620 --> 00:13:26.940
actually have a thwack at someone.

290
00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:30.059
Doesn't he tell Lobos that even if killing the morod leader

291
00:13:30.059 --> 00:13:32.519
doesn't change anything, he might well enjoy it.

292
00:13:32.580 --> 00:13:34.799
Yeah, he's a bit Terry Nation.

293
00:13:34.860 --> 00:13:35.399
He does.

294
00:13:35.460 --> 00:13:39.840
But the thing is, I think it is still in character for Ian because

295
00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:41.820
this is such a desperate situation.

296
00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:45.419
He's never been Ian's been in plenty of dangerous situations, but

297
00:13:45.419 --> 00:13:47.580
he's never like physically seen the result.

298
00:13:47.879 --> 00:13:51.480
You know, in the Romans, yeah, he sees the lions, but he doesn't

299
00:13:51.480 --> 00:13:52.620
actually see the lions eat someone.

300
00:13:53.039 --> 00:13:59.399
In this, he's actually seeing himself as a wax dummy and I think

301
00:13:59.399 --> 00:14:01.980
it actually really unnerves him because he kind of snaps at

302
00:14:01.980 --> 00:14:02.940
Barbara at one point.

303
00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:06.179
Yeah, they have a proper fight. actually about it. which is which

304
00:14:06.179 --> 00:14:06.899
is really surprising.

305
00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:10.320
He does apologise to him, say he's stressed out by the whole

306
00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:12.659
possibility of bending up in a case thing.

307
00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:13.799
And I think it's that.

308
00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:20.220
It goes back to, um, sort of early season one where Ian is in

309
00:14:20.220 --> 00:14:22.320
complete denial that they're travelling through time and Barbara

310
00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:24.840
just goes, well, look, we have to accept the evidence of our own

311
00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:25.139
eyes.

312
00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:25.740
It's happened.

313
00:14:25.860 --> 00:14:30.059
And again here, when Ian is confronted with something he can't

314
00:14:30.059 --> 00:14:33.059
accept, he can't accept that he's going to go there.

315
00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:38.580
His only method is brute force action and saying something which

316
00:14:38.580 --> 00:14:42.539
may seem uncharacteristic, uncharacteristic, because Ian has

317
00:14:42.539 --> 00:14:45.419
killed before in the show, but only in self-defence and only in

318
00:14:45.419 --> 00:14:48.000
direst emergency, but in this situation, it's just like, no, I'm

319
00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:48.419
going to kill you.

320
00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:50.340
It'll just make me feel better.

321
00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:51.539
He doesn't do it.

322
00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:55.379
But yeah, he's kind of showing he's capable of that under duress.

323
00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:59.879
But the most surprising character and it shows how far we've come

324
00:14:59.879 --> 00:15:06.600
in the new granddaughter figure from Susan is Vicki, who falls in

325
00:15:06.600 --> 00:15:10.860
with the rebels and sort of says, God, you're a bunch of wet

326
00:15:10.860 --> 00:15:11.220
fish.

327
00:15:11.820 --> 00:15:18.000
And uses her quirky future knowledge that she's been talking about

328
00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:21.899
how she's into the sciences and what have you to go, well, hold on

329
00:15:21.899 --> 00:15:23.580
all right, so we need to sell the computer the truth.

330
00:15:23.639 --> 00:15:25.500
That's step one.

331
00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:28.740
The computer needs to acknowledge us as official.

332
00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:29.700
That step two.

333
00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:31.440
We can definitely do the 1st one.

334
00:15:31.500 --> 00:15:33.360
All I have to do is bypass one of them.

335
00:15:33.419 --> 00:15:35.220
She's the one that saves the show.

336
00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:38.460
Yeah, yeah, no, she, that is how they get out of it.

337
00:15:38.519 --> 00:15:41.100
They get out of it because she inspires the revolution.

338
00:15:41.159 --> 00:15:42.960
Some arms fall into their hands.

339
00:15:43.019 --> 00:15:43.679
Yes.

340
00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:47.340
And then and then and then the revolution takes off.

341
00:15:47.399 --> 00:15:50.159
And so when they're in the preparation room, the thing that does

342
00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:51.960
save them is what Vicky has done.

343
00:15:52.019 --> 00:15:52.980
Yeah, exactly.

344
00:15:52.980 --> 00:15:54.899
She's Madame Mao in this narrative.

345
00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:57.360
She's just saying, oh, I want a whole cultural revolution right

346
00:15:57.360 --> 00:15:57.840
here, right now.

347
00:15:57.899 --> 00:16:00.539
I mean, that word revolution.

348
00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:06.480
It's so brilliant in when Vicki does open the armoury because she

349
00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:09.419
just stands up and she's like, what is your name?

350
00:16:09.539 --> 00:16:10.860
Vicki.

351
00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:12.779
What do you want?

352
00:16:12.899 --> 00:16:14.399
Weapons.

353
00:16:14.460 --> 00:16:16.139
What purpose?

354
00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:18.059
Revolution.

355
00:16:19.019 --> 00:16:21.779
The thing is, she's not bloodthirsty there.

356
00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:24.000
She's just going, yeah, revolution.

357
00:16:24.059 --> 00:16:25.379
Let's stick it to the man.

358
00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:29.220
And again, it's that mod counterculture thing you were talking

359
00:16:29.220 --> 00:16:29.820
about, Richard.

360
00:16:29.940 --> 00:16:34.620
But, um, Vicki is just so much more so much more of a positive

361
00:16:34.620 --> 00:16:35.879
character than Susan was.

362
00:16:35.940 --> 00:16:37.679
And we keep comparing it to Susan.

363
00:16:37.740 --> 00:16:39.480
She is a positive character in her own right.

364
00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:43.620
Even if Susan hadn't been in the show before her, you know, and so

365
00:16:43.620 --> 00:16:46.200
we didn't have anyone to compare to in that role.

366
00:16:46.259 --> 00:16:49.019
Vicki would still be an incredibly strong character.

367
00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:53.820
And if you like, this is the culmination of her travels up until

368
00:16:53.820 --> 00:16:57.120
this point because she's still been under the doctor's arm for

369
00:16:57.120 --> 00:16:57.899
most stories.

370
00:16:57.960 --> 00:17:01.559
Even the web planet when they do get separated, the 2 of them are

371
00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:02.460
put that together very quickly.

372
00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:05.759
But in this, they are separated for most of the story.

373
00:17:05.819 --> 00:17:10.920
And She shows herself to sort of go, well, what would the doctors

374
00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:11.940
do in this situation, right?

375
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:13.019
He would help people.

376
00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:15.539
And the funny thing is, she kind of does the thing that would

377
00:17:15.539 --> 00:17:20.700
become very traditional for Tom Baker and Peter Davidson to do.

378
00:17:20.759 --> 00:17:24.240
Billy doesn't so much fall in with the local rebels.

379
00:17:24.299 --> 00:17:26.339
It does happen a few times, but it's not the regular thing he

380
00:17:26.339 --> 00:17:26.640
does.

381
00:17:26.700 --> 00:17:32.279
So Vicky is not only taking on the doctor's example, but she's

382
00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:33.839
leading by her own example.

383
00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:34.859
Showing the doctor what to do.

384
00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:36.839
She's blazing a trail for him.

385
00:17:36.900 --> 00:17:39.359
And manages to save everyone as a result.

386
00:17:39.480 --> 00:17:41.819
Yeah, I agree with you.

387
00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:44.700
I think this is much more about a generation gap than it is about

388
00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:47.819
can we trop the C word in again, colonialism.

389
00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:50.940
Well, you know, the writer, the writer Glenn Jones was actually

390
00:17:50.940 --> 00:17:54.059
South African and there was all that business going on with a

391
00:17:54.059 --> 00:17:57.299
British cricket team and apartheid, you know, South Africans not

392
00:17:57.299 --> 00:17:58.500
being allowed to play cricket.

393
00:17:58.500 --> 00:18:01.740
And you had Rhodesia, you had Ian Smith, you know, with that

394
00:18:01.740 --> 00:18:06.059
extraordinary accent that came to be known as the voice of bigotry

395
00:18:06.059 --> 00:18:10.619
in at this time on TV, you know, spouting this stuff about.

396
00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:12.480
That's Ian Smith from prisoner and name.

397
00:18:12.539 --> 00:18:12.900
Absolutely.

398
00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:13.559
Absolutely.

399
00:18:13.619 --> 00:18:14.279
Yes, yes.

400
00:18:14.339 --> 00:18:17.099
And also the prime minister of magician.

401
00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:18.539
But, you know, he said ways.

402
00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:21.000
He had a lot of his range.

403
00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:24.839
But this is fundamentally, this is groovy.

404
00:18:24.900 --> 00:18:25.920
Yeah, yeah.

405
00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:31.440
So the, the, the, the, I'm morons, more, more, more.

406
00:18:31.500 --> 00:18:32.940
The more...

407
00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:35.460
You missed the info jump in the beginning of episode two.

408
00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:38.460
Welcome to Mobos, a member of the Zoroch Empire.

409
00:18:38.519 --> 00:18:41.160
I'm only here for another 2 minims and all looking at my watch.

410
00:18:41.220 --> 00:18:42.359
That's this period of time.

411
00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:44.579
That's another 24 months.

412
00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:45.839
But your time.

413
00:18:45.900 --> 00:18:49.980
But, um, they're sort of bored, middle-aged.

414
00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:52.019
They are so bored, aren't they?

415
00:18:52.140 --> 00:18:52.619
Yeah, yeah.

416
00:18:52.619 --> 00:18:53.940
And it's very hard.

417
00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:56.400
That's my problem. really hard not to be watching people who are

418
00:18:56.400 --> 00:18:58.019
bored, not be bored myself.

419
00:18:58.079 --> 00:19:00.900
But then Billy comes along and says, oh, pads, that, let's do a

420
00:19:00.900 --> 00:19:01.559
Beatles movie.

421
00:19:01.619 --> 00:19:05.339
Well, the thing is, as much as they're bored, I actually find them

422
00:19:05.339 --> 00:19:08.279
quite amusing because they're not just bored with where they are

423
00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:10.259
they're bored with the fact that the other guy's bored.

424
00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:13.680
Yeah, they're getting frustrated with each other, but being bored

425
00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:15.240
is like, can't you take this ball seriously?

426
00:19:15.299 --> 00:19:15.900
Well, can't you?

427
00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:19.019
Yeah, so we're back to Becca comedy, right?

428
00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:20.640
And...

429
00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:23.640
They have South African accents.

430
00:19:23.700 --> 00:19:24.660
They do.

431
00:19:24.660 --> 00:19:29.220
They're like the proponents of apartheid, whereas Tor and the

432
00:19:29.220 --> 00:19:30.660
other Xeron rebels.

433
00:19:30.779 --> 00:19:36.059
Oh, and that's why the gal set colonists in, um, so entire

434
00:19:36.059 --> 00:19:38.940
experiment have, uh, South African accents.

435
00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:43.380
No, the writer was Bob Baker and Dave Martin, but Glenn is an

436
00:19:43.380 --> 00:19:44.160
actor in it.

437
00:19:44.220 --> 00:19:44.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

438
00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:45.660
He's an actor.

439
00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:46.440
Yeah, the writer of this.

440
00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:48.960
That was a big thing in 75 as well.

441
00:19:49.019 --> 00:19:50.220
Yeah.

442
00:19:50.279 --> 00:19:55.200
I mean, something else I love with the Morrox being like terribly

443
00:19:55.200 --> 00:20:00.420
bored and blasé, is that at this point in the real world, we

444
00:20:00.420 --> 00:20:03.240
haven't even reached the moon and the space race is hotting up.

445
00:20:03.299 --> 00:20:06.660
So Doctor Who presents us with a world where space travel is so

446
00:20:06.660 --> 00:20:09.420
last year and so blasé.

447
00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:10.140
It's like...

448
00:20:10.140 --> 00:20:16.740
It's as though someone in the production office seem to think, can

449
00:20:16.740 --> 00:20:19.680
we do a like space epic where we land on the moon?

450
00:20:19.980 --> 00:20:21.779
No, we can't.

451
00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:24.059
Okay, can we say it's blasé and pointless?

452
00:20:24.119 --> 00:20:25.500
Yes, we can.

453
00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:31.019
And that is, it's postmodern in the most wonderful sense of, I

454
00:20:31.019 --> 00:20:33.420
mean, postmodernism, usually pokes fun at something.

455
00:20:33.539 --> 00:20:37.259
But quite often isn't fun in and of itself.

456
00:20:37.259 --> 00:20:40.019
And you just sit there going, yeah, you're just being mean now.

457
00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:43.799
Whereas this, you kind of you kind of laugh along with the joke of

458
00:20:43.799 --> 00:20:47.039
oh, you're saying space travel's a bit old hat, but what it's more

459
00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:54.000
saying is that putting too much stock in the technology is old hat

460
00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:56.759
and we can't forget about the human element, because the human

461
00:20:56.759 --> 00:21:00.960
element is the 0 on rebels, who are still excited about technology

462
00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:03.539
and interested in technology and how it can improve their lives.

463
00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:07.319
Whereas the morochs are just like, oh, we have technology quick

464
00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:09.660
put it in a glass case. nobody can look at it.

465
00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:14.039
Nobody can touch it, especially not those people in dark uniforms

466
00:21:14.039 --> 00:21:16.079
as these zerons are.

467
00:21:16.140 --> 00:21:18.599
And they have a lot of eyebrows, don't they?

468
00:21:18.660 --> 00:21:20.759
Yeah, sort of vertical eyebrows.

469
00:21:20.819 --> 00:21:23.400
No, no, I thought they had 2 sets of eyebrows, one above the eye.

470
00:21:23.460 --> 00:21:24.059
Oh that's right.

471
00:21:24.119 --> 00:21:25.680
It's like they've shaved these ones off.

472
00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:26.940
No, no, they have two.

473
00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:29.039
Yeah, they've got double eyebrows.

474
00:21:29.099 --> 00:21:31.859
Don't forget, Stingray had been really big from Jerry Anderson and

475
00:21:31.859 --> 00:21:34.740
Thunderbirds this year, so big bushy eyebrows are big.

476
00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:35.279
They were the thing.

477
00:21:35.339 --> 00:21:36.119
So 2 eyebrows.

478
00:21:36.180 --> 00:21:37.980
If you can have Boba Fett with 2 eyebrows.

479
00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:40.680
You kind of right to see this as comedic potential because, you

480
00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:44.099
know, if you look at the history of the scripts of this, weirdly

481
00:21:44.099 --> 00:21:45.960
enough, it goes against what you'd expect.

482
00:21:46.019 --> 00:21:50.460
Whitaker really liked Jones's work from other stuff and really

483
00:21:50.460 --> 00:21:53.160
liked his comedic work and there was apparently a lot of comedy in

484
00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:56.640
this that get this Dennis Spooner cut out because he wanted it to

485
00:21:56.640 --> 00:21:57.539
be taken more seriously.

486
00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:58.740
Dennis Spooner.

487
00:21:58.799 --> 00:22:01.259
Dennis Spooner, maybe there's only room for one comedian.

488
00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:01.980
Maybe sure.

489
00:22:02.039 --> 00:22:04.079
Maybe he knew the chase was coming up.

490
00:22:04.259 --> 00:22:07.079
But yeah, apparently that's...

491
00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:11.160
Of course, in this we have an early appearance of someone who

492
00:22:11.160 --> 00:22:14.039
would later play quite a famous part, but beneath the mask.

493
00:22:14.099 --> 00:22:17.819
We've got Jeremy Bullock. who would go on to be Boba Fett.

494
00:22:17.880 --> 00:22:18.359
Yes.

495
00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:20.880
And the Archer.

496
00:22:20.940 --> 00:22:25.259
And so as we were watching that, as we're watching the Zeron

497
00:22:25.259 --> 00:22:28.680
rebels running about, Rod said, oh, that blonde one's quite

498
00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:29.279
familiar.

499
00:22:29.339 --> 00:22:33.599
And I said, well, um, you probably wouldn't know his face or his

500
00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:37.319
voice, but he's Boba Fett in Star Wars.

501
00:22:37.380 --> 00:22:39.420
And Bro's like, oh, okay.

502
00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:42.779
And then an episode later, Robert, Boba Fett's got quite nice

503
00:22:42.779 --> 00:22:43.859
bottom, hasn't it?

504
00:22:44.460 --> 00:22:48.000
He didn't say bottom, but we can't get an explicit attack.

505
00:22:48.059 --> 00:22:53.460
So he's been digitally replaced by Tamuera Morrison under that.

506
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:54.119
Yes, indeed.

507
00:22:54.180 --> 00:22:58.079
He's been digitally replaced by Tamor and Morrison and Lobos has

508
00:22:58.079 --> 00:23:00.359
been digitally replaced by Jab of the Hut.

509
00:23:00.420 --> 00:23:01.440
Okay, fair enough.

510
00:23:01.500 --> 00:23:06.299
It's the last time we see a Dalek with Corseton.

511
00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:08.819
Yes, it's the last time we've seen Dalek with the bands before

512
00:23:08.819 --> 00:23:09.720
they get the solar song.

513
00:23:09.779 --> 00:23:11.519
No, you're right before they get the course of your car.

514
00:23:11.700 --> 00:23:17.640
But it's also the 1st time we see a doctor hiding inside a Dalek

515
00:23:17.700 --> 00:23:19.799
and impersonating a dark.

516
00:23:19.859 --> 00:23:24.900
And one does rather get the impression that Billy just climbed in

517
00:23:24.900 --> 00:23:25.680
there for a laugh.

518
00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:28.259
When he pops his head out.

519
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:29.880
He doesn't look like the 1st doctor.

520
00:23:29.940 --> 00:23:33.359
He looks like Billy Arthur going, this is why the kids think it's

521
00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:33.779
so much fun.

522
00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:38.579
But it's a, you know, it's a lovely moment, but it does, does

523
00:23:38.579 --> 00:23:41.220
begin to make the Daleks into figures of fun.

524
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:44.460
So I think that's a perfect tone to hear the Dalek vonk vonk

525
00:23:44.460 --> 00:23:44.819
again.

526
00:23:46.380 --> 00:23:49.380
And move on to the chase.

527
00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:54.420
So the chase is obviously here to redress that potential problem

528
00:23:54.420 --> 00:23:57.720
with making the Daleks into figures are fun, isn't it?

529
00:23:57.779 --> 00:24:02.400
So they're really a terrifying force in this story.

530
00:24:02.460 --> 00:24:04.380
Look, I mean, forces something.

531
00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:08.400
The starting point, obviously, has to be, again, it has to be

532
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:11.579
Sandiff's sort of redemptive reading of this.

533
00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:16.500
So, uh, those of you don't know, Philip Sandafar is, uh, you know

534
00:24:16.500 --> 00:24:19.859
like an incredibly uh, in cycle, an interesting commentator on

535
00:24:19.859 --> 00:24:23.279
Doctor Who, who's been covering its story by story on his blog for

536
00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:24.000
years now.

537
00:24:24.059 --> 00:24:26.400
He's put out several books and things.

538
00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:30.779
And he, you know, he doesn't say the chase is a good story.

539
00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:34.500
So he and I would, you know, have to agree to disagree on that

540
00:24:34.500 --> 00:24:35.819
because I think it's really fantastic.

541
00:24:35.880 --> 00:24:39.900
But he has a sort of redemptive reading as if all of the sort of

542
00:24:39.900 --> 00:24:43.019
weird flaws and production problems and plot issues and stuff are

543
00:24:43.019 --> 00:24:47.039
actually all intentional and leading towards a giant narrative

544
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:51.839
collapse in which the entire possibility of even being able to

545
00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:54.960
tell Doctor Who stories is about to annihilate itself.

546
00:24:55.019 --> 00:24:58.500
And it's really terribly funny and it's well and truly worth

547
00:24:58.500 --> 00:24:58.859
reading.

548
00:24:58.920 --> 00:25:03.119
And, you know, it starts with, you know, the episode one where

549
00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:08.339
they've got the time and space visualiser from the space museum.

550
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:11.579
And instead of having adventures, they're just watching TV. do you

551
00:25:11.579 --> 00:25:12.059
know what I mean?

552
00:25:12.119 --> 00:25:17.339
And so it's a family unit watching TV and and seeing all these

553
00:25:17.339 --> 00:25:18.960
sort of various adventures and stuff.

554
00:25:19.019 --> 00:25:22.980
And suddenly the Daleks are sort of more exciting and more

555
00:25:22.980 --> 00:25:28.680
proactive than the doctor because they're sort of about to, um, you

556
00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:30.599
know, they're they're doing something.

557
00:25:30.660 --> 00:25:34.799
They're actually going to come after the doctor and destroy him.

558
00:25:34.859 --> 00:25:40.019
So, look, I'm not going to rehash the standard for reading, you

559
00:25:40.019 --> 00:25:41.099
can all go onto the internet.

560
00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:44.220
It'll be in the show notes, but what I'm going to say is that this

561
00:25:44.220 --> 00:25:48.539
is something that Terry Nation has done before, I think, in Keys

562
00:25:48.539 --> 00:25:54.180
of Mariners, which is to do a longer story, but split it into sort

563
00:25:54.180 --> 00:25:57.000
of several discrete units.

564
00:25:57.000 --> 00:25:59.819
And because each one is sort of quite short and because each one

565
00:25:59.819 --> 00:26:03.839
is sort of fairly simple, it never really gets too tiresome.

566
00:26:03.900 --> 00:26:08.160
Perhaps the worst defender is, the planet Aridius, where, you know

567
00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:12.480
the Aridians are terribly kind of wet, I guess.

568
00:26:12.539 --> 00:26:16.140
Why do they call the planet a radius if it used to be an ocean

569
00:26:16.140 --> 00:26:16.619
planet?

570
00:26:16.680 --> 00:26:18.359
I never really kind of understood that.

571
00:26:18.420 --> 00:26:19.980
Deanna Troy named the planet perhaps?

572
00:26:20.039 --> 00:26:25.380
No, they just changed the name by deed poll when all the Cs...

573
00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:28.799
Maybe it was Maddus or something beforehand.

574
00:26:28.859 --> 00:26:32.819
So, um, personally, I just can't understand why anyone would take

575
00:26:32.819 --> 00:26:36.480
a long piece of text and break it up into several shorter pieces

576
00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:39.359
to be listened to across the space for 3 weeks.

577
00:26:39.420 --> 00:26:40.920
I just can't understand it.

578
00:26:40.980 --> 00:26:42.000
That's crazy.

579
00:26:42.059 --> 00:26:43.140
That'd be utterly crazy.

580
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:44.759
And so...

581
00:26:44.759 --> 00:26:48.660
And so, you know, we've got a radius and then we've got the Empire

582
00:26:48.660 --> 00:26:51.119
State Building and then we've got the Mary Celeste and then we've

583
00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:53.819
got that stupid haunted house thing and then we've got the planet

584
00:26:53.819 --> 00:26:54.599
Mechanus.

585
00:26:54.660 --> 00:26:58.380
And so we have kind of 32 parters, don't we?

586
00:26:58.440 --> 00:27:02.099
2 parts on a radius, then 2 parts where we go from place to place

587
00:27:02.099 --> 00:27:03.059
and then 2 parts.

588
00:27:03.299 --> 00:27:05.160
Mechanists, right?

589
00:27:05.220 --> 00:27:07.859
And so it doesn't really get too tight.

590
00:27:07.859 --> 00:27:12.539
And then, and it has changed the premise of the entire show

591
00:27:12.539 --> 00:27:16.380
because the TARDIS had previously really just being a plot device

592
00:27:16.380 --> 00:27:18.059
in order to get them into the story.

593
00:27:18.059 --> 00:27:21.900
And very frequently, you know, they're separated from the TARDIS

594
00:27:21.900 --> 00:27:24.599
and they have to get back to it in some way in order to get out

595
00:27:24.599 --> 00:27:25.619
and onto the next story.

596
00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:27.599
So it's a contrivance.

597
00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:30.599
But here it's actually a vehicle that they're piloting through

598
00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:33.779
time and space and there's someone else who can travel, travel

599
00:27:33.779 --> 00:27:36.480
after them and whom they can detect and so on.

600
00:27:36.539 --> 00:27:39.599
And so it really changes the character of the show in a way that

601
00:27:39.599 --> 00:27:43.559
it's going to change even further, of course, next story.

602
00:27:43.619 --> 00:27:48.000
So look, I mean, there are all sorts of things that, that, that

603
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:50.880
don't really work, aren't there?

604
00:27:50.940 --> 00:27:55.380
But it sort of clips along, and it's got the Daleks in it, and it

605
00:27:55.380 --> 00:27:56.099
sort of reads me.

606
00:27:56.160 --> 00:27:57.720
You're saying, there's some fun dalek moments.

607
00:27:57.779 --> 00:28:04.859
I love the recreation of the, um, invasion of earth cliffhanger

608
00:28:04.859 --> 00:28:07.740
only this time instead of coming out of the Thames that's coming

609
00:28:07.740 --> 00:28:08.339
out of sand.

610
00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:09.960
Like, for no...

611
00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:13.980
Redly, for certain reasons, and it's coughing or burping.

612
00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:16.859
Yeah, and then there's the Dalek who does its sums, you know, it

613
00:28:16.859 --> 00:28:21.420
gets asked a question and it sort of goes...

614
00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:22.200
Wait for them.

615
00:28:22.259 --> 00:28:24.720
I think they're just trying to outdo the mechanoids. very

616
00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:27.359
competitive these days. line, line.

617
00:28:27.420 --> 00:28:27.960
800.

618
00:28:28.140 --> 00:28:30.660
English.

619
00:28:31.799 --> 00:28:35.279
And we should actually be doing this whole discussion.

620
00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:42.960
Oh, stop.

621
00:28:43.200 --> 00:28:45.599
Enter enter 0 stop.

622
00:28:45.660 --> 00:28:47.579
It would never happen again.

623
00:28:47.579 --> 00:28:53.460
So, I mean, and it has all the sort of usual terri nation things.

624
00:28:53.519 --> 00:28:57.779
It's going to be rubber monster, like, it's the Maya beast, isn't

625
00:28:57.779 --> 00:28:57.900
it?

626
00:28:57.960 --> 00:28:59.460
Which, um, are we allowed?

627
00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:00.359
say testicle?

628
00:29:00.420 --> 00:29:02.940
I think we probably ought to say this?

629
00:29:02.940 --> 00:29:05.039
Because it looks like a pair of testimony.

630
00:29:05.160 --> 00:29:08.700
No, I see, I think you're thinking of frontier in space.

631
00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:11.460
Well, that looks like a conglomeration.

632
00:29:11.579 --> 00:29:14.940
It is just like a...

633
00:29:14.940 --> 00:29:18.359
Is this the moment in a radius when Vicky has this uncontrollable

634
00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:21.839
feat of festival laughter for no power?

635
00:29:21.900 --> 00:29:25.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah. something really crap has just happened off

636
00:29:25.079 --> 00:29:25.559
camera.

637
00:29:25.619 --> 00:29:27.240
Maybe that's it.

638
00:29:27.299 --> 00:29:31.140
Maybe someone brought the Maya piece. behind the cameras.

639
00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:32.099
No sense.

640
00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:35.339
And then they open the lids in the desert and she screams with

641
00:29:35.339 --> 00:29:36.180
laughter even more.

642
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:36.900
What it is.

643
00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:39.839
I've read an interview with Maureen where she says...

644
00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:43.319
I didn't want Vicky to scream unless she was absolutely terrified

645
00:29:43.319 --> 00:29:44.700
if she's just startled by something.

646
00:29:44.759 --> 00:29:45.420
She giggles.

647
00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:46.440
Oh, giggles, yeah, yeah.

648
00:29:46.440 --> 00:29:49.619
She soon becomes a slapping offence, though, doesn't it?

649
00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:50.220
Yeah, it is.

650
00:29:50.220 --> 00:29:54.660
I mean, most of the time she just sort of does But yeah, in that

651
00:29:54.660 --> 00:29:54.900
one.

652
00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:56.339
And it's just the door opening.

653
00:29:56.400 --> 00:29:58.920
Yeah, she does giggle for about 10 seconds.

654
00:29:58.920 --> 00:30:02.279
And William Russell's just kind of standing there furrowing his

655
00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:04.319
brow like, you're really gonna do it like that.

656
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:06.359
Are you doing?

657
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:08.940
Are you doing the accent?

658
00:30:09.960 --> 00:30:11.880
Oh, yeah.

659
00:30:11.940 --> 00:30:16.019
So, so, like a radius is, like those 2, it's high Will Bennett and

660
00:30:16.019 --> 00:30:18.359
someone else and they're just sort of really terrible and the My

661
00:30:18.359 --> 00:30:20.339
Beast is sort of a bit terrible as well.

662
00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:25.980
And we get them attacking a Dalek with Barbara's cardigan, which

663
00:30:25.980 --> 00:30:27.119
is a bit of a...

664
00:30:27.180 --> 00:30:29.460
So achieving says, no, not again.

665
00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:33.119
You know, like Ian, Ian, takes her card, you know, can I have your

666
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:33.839
card again?

667
00:30:33.900 --> 00:30:36.299
And it's like, this is the 2nd story in a row.

668
00:30:36.359 --> 00:30:38.880
You're really going to take my card and then sort of dismember it

669
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:39.299
somehow.

670
00:30:39.359 --> 00:30:42.660
And the doctor calls some Adelic auntie.

671
00:30:42.779 --> 00:30:44.339
As well.

672
00:30:44.339 --> 00:30:45.299
Archie.

673
00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:48.420
No, no, but here, Auntie, over here, Auntie. nuts.

674
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:49.680
Does that go on the BBC?

675
00:30:49.740 --> 00:30:50.339
Was it?

676
00:30:50.339 --> 00:30:52.500
You weren't allowed to call the bee auntie.

677
00:30:52.500 --> 00:30:53.160
Oh, maybe.

678
00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:55.920
Because it was seen as a bit cosy and comforting and they wanted

679
00:30:55.920 --> 00:30:57.000
it to be progressive.

680
00:30:57.000 --> 00:30:59.279
Because, you know, everyone preferred to it because just like a

681
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:02.519
Jubiter ABC, so he might actually be even cheekier.

682
00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:06.180
I thought he was channelling Matt Smith, you said. in a sort of

683
00:31:06.180 --> 00:31:06.839
weird time thing.

684
00:31:06.900 --> 00:31:11.400
Something I do love about that 1st segment on Aridius is just the

685
00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:15.299
way that the Titus crew are all relaxing for most of the 1st

686
00:31:15.299 --> 00:31:17.039
episode for about 20 minutes.

687
00:31:17.099 --> 00:31:19.140
You know, 1st of all, they're relaxing inside the TARDIS and

688
00:31:19.140 --> 00:31:20.759
watching telly.

689
00:31:20.759 --> 00:31:24.960
And, you know, Vicky manages to tread the line between being an

690
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:27.960
annoying child and still being fabulous by sort of wandering

691
00:31:27.960 --> 00:31:32.039
around and reading over Ian's shoulder. reading a book called, is

692
00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:33.599
he reading monsters from Outer Space?

693
00:31:33.660 --> 00:31:36.000
Well, Out of Space, which he says...

694
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:36.180
Yeah.

695
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:41.039
And William Hartnell possibly swearing and Vicky, depending on how

696
00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:44.160
you, because he's got a mouthful of screwdrivers and it sounds

697
00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:45.900
like he says something ending in all.

698
00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:49.140
And then she, you know, spills a drink on the dress.

699
00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:50.099
Barbara's making for it.

700
00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:51.480
And it's all wonderfully domestic.

701
00:31:52.500 --> 00:31:53.160
Perhaps.

702
00:31:53.160 --> 00:32:00.359
But not only that, you then get when they land, you know, Ian and

703
00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:03.960
Vicky go, go running across Canva Sands exploring, and you've got

704
00:32:03.960 --> 00:32:08.819
that beautiful scene with the doctor and Barbara Sunbaby.

705
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:09.359
No.

706
00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:11.640
That other awful noise.

707
00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:14.579
Yeah, the doctor's singing.

708
00:32:14.700 --> 00:32:15.720
So wonderful.

709
00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:16.920
Isn't this original?

710
00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:17.880
What's that awful noise?

711
00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:19.200
I'm expecting Creeks.

712
00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:20.700
Jolly wheels.

713
00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:23.640
But yeah, like the doctor, there's some bathing.

714
00:32:23.700 --> 00:32:26.039
The doctor's singing, Barbara can hear something inside the

715
00:32:26.039 --> 00:32:26.640
Tartaran.

716
00:32:26.700 --> 00:32:27.839
Doctor, what's that awful noise?

717
00:32:27.900 --> 00:32:28.859
My singing?

718
00:32:28.920 --> 00:32:30.599
No, the other awful door.

719
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:33.240
But then he says I could charm the knife.

720
00:32:33.240 --> 00:32:34.799
He gets out of the trees.

721
00:32:35.099 --> 00:32:36.779
It's wonderful.

722
00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:37.500
That's so great.

723
00:32:37.619 --> 00:32:38.759
Yeah, oh it is.

724
00:32:38.819 --> 00:32:41.640
And, well, it just goes back to something I said last season, and

725
00:32:41.640 --> 00:32:43.140
this is going to be the last chance I have to say.

726
00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:44.819
The doctor is in love with Barbara.

727
00:32:44.940 --> 00:32:46.920
Yeah, absolutely.

728
00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:50.700
This is the very 1st story where the doctor goes to kiss someone.

729
00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:52.380
Other than that.

730
00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:53.460
He said the Aztecs.

731
00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:56.700
It goes to Keisha's companion and it's not Barbara, it's Ian.

732
00:32:56.759 --> 00:32:58.079
Oh, really?

733
00:32:59.339 --> 00:33:00.240
I'm going to spoil.

734
00:33:00.299 --> 00:33:02.279
No, I'm not going to spoil it for you.

735
00:33:02.339 --> 00:33:02.940
You have to watch it again.

736
00:33:03.180 --> 00:33:06.000
I have to watch the whole thing again, people.

737
00:33:06.059 --> 00:33:08.579
Well, I'm excited by that.

738
00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:09.720
Yes, sure.

739
00:33:09.720 --> 00:33:13.380
I mean, I don't mind the chase.

740
00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:16.380
I think the chase wouldn't come in for as much criticism if it

741
00:33:16.380 --> 00:33:17.700
weren't not a dalek story.

742
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:20.759
I think people have a certain expectation for watching Dalek

743
00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:21.059
stories.

744
00:33:21.119 --> 00:33:22.859
If it had to been an original alien.

745
00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:25.740
If it had been the Lord building a time machine and going after

746
00:33:25.740 --> 00:33:28.619
the doctor in time space, I think it would be far more fondly

747
00:33:28.619 --> 00:33:29.039
remembered.

748
00:33:29.099 --> 00:33:32.279
It's because people think that it's sending the Daleks up.

749
00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:33.480
But that's the problem.

750
00:33:33.539 --> 00:33:35.400
Nation has actually completely blown.

751
00:33:35.460 --> 00:33:38.579
He's done the absolutely fabulous thing of taking it seriously

752
00:33:38.579 --> 00:33:42.299
even though within its own precepts in the 1st series, AdFab is

753
00:33:42.299 --> 00:33:45.480
actually a very funny comedy where the characters themselves are

754
00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:50.400
intrinsic and integral, but from series 2 on, they completely take

755
00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:54.059
the Mickey out of each other and themselves and it stops being

756
00:33:54.059 --> 00:33:57.660
kind of as honest or as you can't really get involved with it

757
00:33:57.660 --> 00:34:00.420
anymore because they're doing their own meta narrative of it.

758
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:01.380
I'm just watching that.

759
00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:02.940
It's with this one.

760
00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:05.460
Daleks shouldn't come apart into 3 pieces when they're pushed off

761
00:34:05.460 --> 00:34:05.759
things.

762
00:34:05.819 --> 00:34:06.599
They're mentioned...

763
00:34:06.599 --> 00:34:07.680
That's not Terry Nation.

764
00:34:07.740 --> 00:34:10.860
Yeah, they're loveable Richard Martin. pushes them off the Mari

765
00:34:10.860 --> 00:34:11.940
Celeste in the 1st place.

766
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:15.300
There's a kind of thing as they, I can do anything with these.

767
00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:17.219
They're so popular. can now use them.

768
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:18.659
It's just a symbol for something else.

769
00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:22.559
And whatever it is, a dalek is not what it was established.

770
00:34:22.619 --> 00:34:25.139
It's just whatever it needs to be in the situation to get the

771
00:34:25.139 --> 00:34:25.980
drama along.

772
00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:28.980
We see, I think, but I do think that the premises are kind of

773
00:34:28.980 --> 00:34:29.460
natural thing.

774
00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:32.280
You've got the Daleks in their city and that's how they sort of

775
00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:34.380
started and we didn't know that they were going to be that great.

776
00:34:34.440 --> 00:34:38.219
Then when they're a breakout hit, you know, they invade the earth

777
00:34:38.219 --> 00:34:42.000
and, you know, threaten the world of the actual viewer.

778
00:34:42.059 --> 00:34:47.400
And then, you know, like, they're gone a lovely holiday and they

779
00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:50.400
go to New York.

780
00:34:50.460 --> 00:34:54.119
No, and then they, then they show. aggressive vegetation.

781
00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:55.440
It's a knife.

782
00:34:55.559 --> 00:34:56.639
It's funny though, me.

783
00:34:56.760 --> 00:34:57.960
Lot of jungles.

784
00:34:58.260 --> 00:35:02.519
Terry Nation things alive means animals that move.

785
00:35:03.179 --> 00:35:04.739
No, really.

786
00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:07.199
Next, again, next season.

787
00:35:07.260 --> 00:35:08.760
The Varga plants.

788
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:12.659
So they need to be equals to the doctor.

789
00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:14.579
This actually increases their kind of.

790
00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:16.679
It is, it's the production that's a problem.

791
00:35:16.739 --> 00:35:18.719
This turns them into a kind of mythic force.

792
00:35:18.780 --> 00:35:21.360
I like that they keep up with him the time.

793
00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:21.659
Yeah.

794
00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:25.320
You know, and they're better at time travel than he is, in fact.

795
00:35:25.380 --> 00:35:27.480
They know where they're going to go next.

796
00:35:27.539 --> 00:35:30.000
They catch up with him sort of gradually.

797
00:35:30.059 --> 00:35:33.179
But I mean, and then they're stupid, things like they can be

798
00:35:33.179 --> 00:35:38.519
killed by robot Frankenstein's monsters in 1990s farm fair and

799
00:35:38.519 --> 00:35:39.059
stuff.

800
00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:40.860
Like they're stupid stuff.

801
00:35:40.920 --> 00:35:44.099
But, but, you know, like if you're five, it would be great.

802
00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:48.360
Yeah, that's...

803
00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:52.980
Except with less blackface in this case.

804
00:35:53.039 --> 00:35:54.960
Yeah, that's terrible.

805
00:35:55.019 --> 00:36:00.539
And so do we have any moments of awkward racial stereotyping in

806
00:36:00.539 --> 00:36:00.960
the chase?

807
00:36:01.019 --> 00:36:05.280
Only Morton D. I'm one of these white American is therefore kind

808
00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:07.980
of sorry to everyone, but, you know, there is a horrible moment

809
00:36:07.980 --> 00:36:10.980
where, you know, I don't know if the audience knew at the time, but

810
00:36:10.980 --> 00:36:14.940
when you see Morton deal on the top of the Empire State, you think

811
00:36:14.940 --> 00:36:17.159
oh, no, he is the companion.

812
00:36:17.219 --> 00:36:20.219
Oh, he's the new, he's actually going to come into the TARDIS and

813
00:36:20.219 --> 00:36:21.659
we're stuck with that for at least a year.

814
00:36:21.719 --> 00:36:23.340
He does...

815
00:36:23.340 --> 00:36:26.699
So this is Peter Purvis, of course, for our friends at home who

816
00:36:26.699 --> 00:36:31.980
will go on to play Stephen for... what seems like an eternity in

817
00:36:31.980 --> 00:36:35.039
season three, although I think he is terribly good.

818
00:36:35.099 --> 00:36:38.940
Actually, yeah, I really, really, they get on, really.

819
00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:42.119
There's fraternity, which develops actually to the ultimate point

820
00:36:42.119 --> 00:36:46.559
of the doctor and the companion, and it's... ends up having to run

821
00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:49.920
the show towards the end of series 3 when the Cardinals being in.

822
00:36:49.980 --> 00:36:53.760
And he will try that accent again in the gunfighters, which we'll

823
00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:55.380
talk about sort of reasonably soon.

824
00:36:55.440 --> 00:36:59.039
Yeah, you know, like all of that sort of reasonably fun.

825
00:36:59.099 --> 00:37:02.400
It has been pointed out that Barbara and Ian could, of course, get

826
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:06.840
off at that and catch a plane home and they would be home, thus

827
00:37:06.840 --> 00:37:10.440
not necessitate, but, of course, they're in a chase.

828
00:37:10.500 --> 00:37:11.940
Yeah, they're interesting.

829
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:14.280
You know, they've got like 5 minutes to think about it.

830
00:37:14.340 --> 00:37:17.039
I forgive them for not considering it.

831
00:37:17.099 --> 00:37:17.940
But I think it, yeah.

832
00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:18.659
Yeah.

833
00:37:18.659 --> 00:37:20.639
And, you know, it's not 1st thing on your mind, though.

834
00:37:20.699 --> 00:37:23.219
I don't think they ask Morton the date.

835
00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:24.480
No.

836
00:37:24.480 --> 00:37:26.340
So they don't know that they're back.

837
00:37:26.639 --> 00:37:30.659
Although, they were willing to accept... up to the minute play.

838
00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:32.760
Straight off the Beverly Hillbillies, and that's actually where

839
00:37:32.760 --> 00:37:33.659
the characters come from.

840
00:37:33.719 --> 00:37:35.760
This is a show about other TV shows.

841
00:37:35.820 --> 00:37:36.599
Yes.

842
00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:37.619
Very much so.

843
00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:40.800
Maybe it's the 1st time Doctor Who has actually said we really not

844
00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:44.099
only were within the TV, but we're running TV, we're every other

845
00:37:44.099 --> 00:37:44.820
TV show.

846
00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:48.840
So it's like series one of the new series being all about

847
00:37:48.840 --> 00:37:49.320
television.

848
00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:52.079
So there's the interlude about television.

849
00:37:52.139 --> 00:37:54.960
I mean, the Iridius thing is a fairly standard, rather boring

850
00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:58.320
Doctor Who sort of tale that fortunately the Daleks come and smash

851
00:37:58.320 --> 00:37:58.679
it up.

852
00:37:58.739 --> 00:38:03.179
And then they go into various other TV shows, which, again, is

853
00:38:03.179 --> 00:38:08.159
sort of what they do in the in the Chase 2 or Dalek's master plan

854
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:11.340
you know, the sort of middle bit.

855
00:38:11.400 --> 00:38:12.659
I can put it out there.

856
00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:14.159
We'll talk about that at length.

857
00:38:14.579 --> 00:38:16.800
Sorry, everyone.

858
00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:19.380
And then and then the mechanist thing.

859
00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:22.920
Oh, can we mention this beautiful city of mechanism?

860
00:38:22.980 --> 00:38:23.579
It's lovely.

861
00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:24.780
It's acoustic, isn't it?

862
00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:29.400
Well, again, that's an absolutely perfect gaudy representative, you

863
00:38:29.400 --> 00:38:33.239
know, if he's beautiful, amorphous metaphoric architecture.

864
00:38:33.300 --> 00:38:34.679
It is spectacular.

865
00:38:34.739 --> 00:38:35.699
It's a beautiful model.

866
00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:42.659
It takes a magnificent design to look like it was made by chance.

867
00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:44.400
You know, it looks like...

868
00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:47.699
It's very organic, it waxed down something and just let it run, but

869
00:38:47.699 --> 00:38:51.059
you just know with Ray Husek that, no, he's planned every single

870
00:38:51.059 --> 00:38:53.940
one of those struts and supports and they're using...

871
00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:57.840
And yet it's built by robots with vocabulary that's even worse

872
00:38:57.840 --> 00:38:59.639
than concrete poetry.

873
00:38:59.880 --> 00:39:04.440
It's built by every D&D player's worst nightmare, the giant Ds

874
00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:04.980
point ticks.

875
00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:06.780
I cuts of heatrons.

876
00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:07.260
Yeah.

877
00:39:07.260 --> 00:39:07.980
So it is.

878
00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:09.239
Yes, yes.

879
00:39:09.300 --> 00:39:13.920
So, um, and, you know, like again, they're really fun, you know

880
00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:18.840
the big battle at the end with the, with the Daleks and the, and

881
00:39:18.840 --> 00:39:21.900
the mechanoids is quite well shot, you know what I mean?

882
00:39:21.960 --> 00:39:24.960
There's lots of fades and things it's really exciting.

883
00:39:25.019 --> 00:39:26.340
They did it on film.

884
00:39:26.400 --> 00:39:28.739
They did it in that biggest film studio at Ealing, didn't they?

885
00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:29.460
The Vint Battles.

886
00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:31.800
And then you get to see Barbara's Undies.

887
00:39:31.860 --> 00:39:33.480
Don't you like?

888
00:39:33.539 --> 00:39:36.300
Yeah, Ian almost grips her pants off.

889
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:40.380
They tie Vicky up, which you've all been waiting for at home, you

890
00:39:40.380 --> 00:39:41.699
know, and lower down a thing.

891
00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:46.320
But the thing is that when Vicky does sort of go to pieces, it

892
00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:49.199
doesn't feel like it cheapens the character because it's like, you

893
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:49.500
know what?

894
00:39:49.559 --> 00:39:52.380
She's gone to pieces once in everything she's experienced and it's

895
00:39:52.380 --> 00:39:55.980
when she is, when she fears for her life and plummeting to the

896
00:39:55.980 --> 00:39:57.119
ground and her gris...

897
00:39:57.239 --> 00:39:58.800
When she's being written by Terry Nation.

898
00:39:58.860 --> 00:40:01.739
It's also been written by Terry Nation, but it's kind of like, you

899
00:40:01.739 --> 00:40:02.039
know what?

900
00:40:02.099 --> 00:40:04.019
Everyone has their break.

901
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:07.739
And we, yeah, we can accept that this is something you can't do.

902
00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:09.900
But at the same time, you know, she doesn't start lashing out and

903
00:40:09.900 --> 00:40:13.619
stopping people, but she she almost she just seizes up and almost

904
00:40:13.619 --> 00:40:16.559
goes catatonic and allows them to rescue her.

905
00:40:16.619 --> 00:40:18.480
So I think it's a bit of a shame actually.

906
00:40:18.539 --> 00:40:22.019
Actually, I would have been happier if she had been less of an

907
00:40:22.019 --> 00:40:22.380
idiot.

908
00:40:22.440 --> 00:40:25.380
But yeah, it doesn't fatally undermine the character because she

909
00:40:25.380 --> 00:40:25.800
does it once.

910
00:40:25.860 --> 00:40:29.159
And in the same story, you know, she stowed away on the Dalek ship

911
00:40:29.159 --> 00:40:31.500
concealed herself, found out there's a robot duplicate of the

912
00:40:31.500 --> 00:40:32.519
doctor and warned everyone else.

913
00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:33.719
Which looks exactly like.

914
00:40:33.719 --> 00:40:35.820
Looks exactly like the original.

915
00:40:35.880 --> 00:40:39.239
Look, poor Edmund Warwick. do not blame him.

916
00:40:40.019 --> 00:40:46.380
Apparently it was because Edmund Warwick had stepped in late in

917
00:40:46.380 --> 00:40:49.139
the day to stand in for Billy when Billy was injured on Darlic

918
00:40:49.139 --> 00:40:49.980
Invasion.

919
00:40:50.940 --> 00:40:54.000
They had said to him, look, we'll give you a bigger part later in

920
00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:54.300
the season.

921
00:40:54.300 --> 00:40:56.579
For some reason.

922
00:40:56.639 --> 00:41:00.719
For some reason, that bigger part had to be a robot duplicate of

923
00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:06.659
Doctor Who, with full on mid-shots, face forward to the camera, and

924
00:41:06.659 --> 00:41:09.360
a line of dialogue in his own voice.

925
00:41:09.420 --> 00:41:11.340
No, no, he's dubbed by Billy.

926
00:41:11.400 --> 00:41:12.420
Most of it, yes.

927
00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:17.159
But at one point, I think when he's calling out to Barbara.

928
00:41:17.219 --> 00:41:18.960
They don't dub him.

929
00:41:19.860 --> 00:41:23.699
That being said, you know what, in long shot, when he's just

930
00:41:23.699 --> 00:41:26.699
walking through, and from behind, he actually walks like Billy.

931
00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:29.099
Like he's taken the time to get the physical mannerisms.

932
00:41:29.159 --> 00:41:32.699
But I think the real disappointing thing there because, you know

933
00:41:32.699 --> 00:41:33.900
you can forgive that kind of thing.

934
00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:37.079
They didn't have time to reset cameras and do both sides.

935
00:41:37.139 --> 00:41:40.320
The real disappointing thing is once they sort of deactivate the

936
00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:44.159
robot, You would think that they would try to use it against the

937
00:41:44.159 --> 00:41:46.800
dialects, like make the dialects think they caught the doctor when

938
00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:47.940
actually they're caught the robot.

939
00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:49.199
But did they do that?

940
00:41:49.260 --> 00:41:49.619
No.

941
00:41:49.739 --> 00:41:52.320
They just deactivate the robot and leave it in the forest.

942
00:41:52.380 --> 00:41:55.679
Oh, no, the doctor goes out and pretends to be the robot.

943
00:41:55.739 --> 00:41:56.639
Yeah, it doesn't work.

944
00:41:56.699 --> 00:41:57.719
No, no, no.

945
00:41:57.780 --> 00:42:01.980
It goes for about 5 seconds and they have to run.

946
00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:05.340
That bit feels like, and this is before it, obviously, but that

947
00:42:05.340 --> 00:42:07.980
bit feels like an episode of a scene from Red Dwarf.

948
00:42:08.039 --> 00:42:09.000
It's fun.

949
00:42:09.059 --> 00:42:10.079
Oh, it's really funny.

950
00:42:10.139 --> 00:42:12.659
Like, Billy plays it perfectly, like, imagine work.

951
00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:17.579
But then I think I think that we're missing the huge thing and

952
00:42:17.579 --> 00:42:21.300
something that the biggest thing about the chase, which is, which

953
00:42:21.300 --> 00:42:26.099
is going to just completely change the history of the show, and

954
00:42:26.099 --> 00:42:30.360
that is the departure of Ian and Barbara.

955
00:42:30.420 --> 00:42:34.679
And I say that, like, because Chase, the Chase is one of the

956
00:42:34.679 --> 00:42:37.860
stories that exists in fallen, because I've got a reasonably early

957
00:42:37.860 --> 00:42:41.820
DVD release, I've watched it a lot. over the years.

958
00:42:41.880 --> 00:42:44.159
So it was sort of my go-to heart and all, you know what I mean?

959
00:42:44.219 --> 00:42:48.659
And I know that's crazy, but it's fun and it's funny and all of

960
00:42:48.659 --> 00:42:49.440
that sort of thing.

961
00:42:49.500 --> 00:42:52.920
And so this time when I was actually watching it in context.

962
00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:55.139
And, you know, I've been watching it in order.

963
00:42:55.199 --> 00:42:57.719
I'm up to season 4 and it's all for the podcast.

964
00:42:57.780 --> 00:43:01.860
I love all of you at home and I'll go through anything really, just

965
00:43:01.860 --> 00:43:05.219
for your benefit, including the smugglers.

966
00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:07.500
And that's your toy maker.

967
00:43:07.500 --> 00:43:10.199
You texted me about the other day and you loved that one.

968
00:43:10.260 --> 00:43:14.159
And so this time I'm watching the chase in context for the 1st

969
00:43:14.159 --> 00:43:14.460
time.

970
00:43:14.460 --> 00:43:20.519
And it was like it was like going back to 1978 or 79 when I 1st

971
00:43:20.519 --> 00:43:25.980
saw like Sarah leave and she was the only sort of, you know

972
00:43:25.980 --> 00:43:27.960
companion for the doctor that I'd ever known.

973
00:43:28.019 --> 00:43:34.440
And, and um, I was really, really heartbroken by it.

974
00:43:34.500 --> 00:43:35.519
It's so sad.

975
00:43:35.579 --> 00:43:39.119
And like, I'm so glad that they spared us.

976
00:43:39.179 --> 00:43:41.699
I know it's a bit of a cop out and they do it again with Vicky

977
00:43:41.699 --> 00:43:46.079
where they spare us the actual scene of them saying goodbye for

978
00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:46.800
the last time.

979
00:43:46.860 --> 00:43:53.400
Um, And, you know, Vicky is spectacular in it, the way that she

980
00:43:53.400 --> 00:43:57.539
wins the doctor over and, and then that whole montage, which is, is

981
00:43:57.539 --> 00:43:59.099
that directed by Douglas Campfield?

982
00:43:59.159 --> 00:44:01.260
The, the, the steel images?

983
00:44:01.320 --> 00:44:02.219
In the steel images?

984
00:44:02.340 --> 00:44:03.420
I think...

985
00:44:04.199 --> 00:44:07.380
Yes, yes, Douglas Canfield went out with them and a stills camera

986
00:44:07.380 --> 00:44:07.679
I believe.

987
00:44:07.739 --> 00:44:11.340
And just took all those lovely photos of them all over London and

988
00:44:11.340 --> 00:44:15.179
then they blow up the Dalek time machine in the warehouse and all

989
00:44:15.179 --> 00:44:18.719
of that sort of thing and they, you know, they laugh and then the

990
00:44:18.719 --> 00:44:19.619
whole thing comes back.

991
00:44:19.619 --> 00:44:23.219
Full circle, we're watching the time space visualiser and the

992
00:44:23.219 --> 00:44:25.679
doctor gets to see that they're okay.

993
00:44:25.739 --> 00:44:27.539
And I just think it's perfect.

994
00:44:27.599 --> 00:44:29.219
It's so beautifully low key.

995
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:33.659
And I think Barbara, Barbara, particularly, obviously, and Ian

996
00:44:33.659 --> 00:44:36.539
what this show is about.

997
00:44:36.599 --> 00:44:37.199
Do you know what I mean?

998
00:44:37.260 --> 00:44:42.000
It's about 2 school teachers who stumble in, stumble out of our

999
00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:45.360
world into a time machine and I put in these sort of strange

1000
00:44:45.360 --> 00:44:48.659
action adventure situations when they're just sort of rather

1001
00:44:48.659 --> 00:44:53.519
tweedy and cardigan wearing and things, and then they have to

1002
00:44:53.519 --> 00:44:55.320
function inside that sort of story.

1003
00:44:55.380 --> 00:44:58.619
And they both have so much charm and they're both so terrific that

1004
00:44:58.619 --> 00:45:02.880
the show, I think, you know, however good Peter Pervys is, I think

1005
00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:07.559
the show spends the next year flailing and wandering what to do

1006
00:45:07.559 --> 00:45:08.099
without them.

1007
00:45:08.159 --> 00:45:10.619
It's a good point.

1008
00:45:10.619 --> 00:45:15.000
I, I, do you, do you have a correction about the director of those

1009
00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:15.659
sequences or?

1010
00:45:15.659 --> 00:45:17.159
Because I thought that's what you want.

1011
00:45:17.219 --> 00:45:20.940
Look, no, I did notice that Barbara Joss is actually the one

1012
00:45:20.940 --> 00:45:24.599
running around on canvas sands instead of...

1013
00:45:24.659 --> 00:45:27.960
Yeah, instead of Maureen O'Brien in all of the reverse shots, since

1014
00:45:27.960 --> 00:45:31.199
we're citing people who... one's concerned.

1015
00:45:31.260 --> 00:45:34.260
We haven't really mentioned because not everyone knows the stuff

1016
00:45:34.260 --> 00:45:37.139
backwards, but the Beatles were actually really keen, especially

1017
00:45:37.139 --> 00:45:38.519
John Lennon, to be in it.

1018
00:45:38.579 --> 00:45:41.219
And it was Brian Epstein, their manager, who said, oh, no, we're

1019
00:45:41.219 --> 00:45:41.639
not happening.

1020
00:45:41.639 --> 00:45:44.159
Because, you know, you'll ruin the brand.

1021
00:45:44.219 --> 00:45:46.800
Do they actually say things like that in 1964?

1022
00:45:46.860 --> 00:45:49.500
But yeah, he didn't want to spoil the illusion of what the Beatles

1023
00:45:49.500 --> 00:45:49.800
were.

1024
00:45:49.860 --> 00:45:51.179
John was a gentleman.

1025
00:45:51.239 --> 00:45:52.559
Were they going to be made up as old man?

1026
00:45:52.619 --> 00:45:54.780
yeah Yes, old blokes.

1027
00:45:54.960 --> 00:45:57.900
It was going to be like... 1994 or something.

1028
00:45:57.960 --> 00:46:02.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, with the in and

1029
00:46:02.760 --> 00:46:03.360
bob we're leaving.

1030
00:46:03.420 --> 00:46:07.199
And as you say, it took the show a while to recover from that long

1031
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:07.440
while.

1032
00:46:07.500 --> 00:46:11.280
We've kind of seen that mirrored in the new series in that, and

1033
00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:14.880
I'm going to state, 1st of all, that I love Prima Arjumen, and I

1034
00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:16.139
love Martha Jones in the show.

1035
00:46:16.199 --> 00:46:23.400
But the show did take that year to figure out how to write a

1036
00:46:23.400 --> 00:46:25.380
companion after Billy Piper left.

1037
00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:29.340
And really it shouldn't, but there were there were missteps and

1038
00:46:29.340 --> 00:46:31.739
well, we'll get there in a couple of years on the podcast.

1039
00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:39.119
But I don't agree with you, by the way, just...

1040
00:46:39.119 --> 00:46:43.380
But also, when you were saying, you know, we don't see the actual

1041
00:46:43.380 --> 00:46:44.519
leaving conversation.

1042
00:46:44.579 --> 00:46:46.739
That's a very good point.

1043
00:46:46.739 --> 00:46:51.300
And all of Hartnell's companions lead very abruptly.

1044
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:55.139
There is, there is a buildup to most of them. but they do leave

1045
00:46:55.139 --> 00:46:55.860
very abruptly.

1046
00:46:55.920 --> 00:47:02.760
But I think in the case of being in Barbara, certainly, Not seeing

1047
00:47:02.760 --> 00:47:08.940
the final conversation between them. is far more effective than

1048
00:47:08.940 --> 00:47:11.699
seeing that 2nd last conversation when they're actually arguing

1049
00:47:11.699 --> 00:47:12.780
and bickering with each other.

1050
00:47:12.840 --> 00:47:14.460
Because again, it goes back to the beginning of their

1051
00:47:14.460 --> 00:47:15.000
relationship.

1052
00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:18.719
And it sort of goes through the whole relationship in microcosm of

1053
00:47:18.719 --> 00:47:21.659
being saying, but I want to go home, I want a normal life and the

1054
00:47:21.659 --> 00:47:25.139
doctor finds the, Barbara, it's Barbara who convinces the doctor

1055
00:47:25.139 --> 00:47:26.219
just like it always has been.

1056
00:47:26.280 --> 00:47:27.539
No, it's Vicky.

1057
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:33.239
Doesn't Vicki, like, he's refused this and Vicki... and just says

1058
00:47:33.239 --> 00:47:33.960
you know, let them go.

1059
00:47:34.019 --> 00:47:35.340
Yeah, let them, you know.

1060
00:47:35.400 --> 00:47:36.539
And he loves Vicky.

1061
00:47:36.599 --> 00:47:39.360
And, you know, she's not going anywhere.

1062
00:47:39.420 --> 00:47:40.559
She reassures him.

1063
00:47:40.679 --> 00:47:45.059
But I think the reason that it works without them actually in the

1064
00:47:45.059 --> 00:47:46.679
ship saying goodbye is that...

1065
00:47:47.699 --> 00:47:51.360
That sequence, that last five, 10 minutes.

1066
00:47:51.420 --> 00:47:54.360
It's not really about Anne and Barbara saying goodbye to the

1067
00:47:54.360 --> 00:47:56.460
doctor. about Ian and Barbara saying goodbye to us.

1068
00:47:56.519 --> 00:47:57.659
Yeah, 0 yeah.

1069
00:47:57.719 --> 00:47:58.500
I think so.

1070
00:47:58.800 --> 00:48:03.420
And I'm choking up about it now because the thing is, we didn't

1071
00:48:03.420 --> 00:48:05.820
really talk about the emotional reaction to Susan leaving.

1072
00:48:05.880 --> 00:48:09.480
I do cry when I see that, but I cry because it feels unfair. think

1073
00:48:09.480 --> 00:48:10.079
it's a waste.

1074
00:48:10.139 --> 00:48:12.000
I cry with me.

1075
00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:14.280
I cry with me in and Barbara because it feels so right.

1076
00:48:14.760 --> 00:48:19.619
Even though, even though this, I think, I agree with you, Nathan

1077
00:48:19.619 --> 00:48:23.760
the show is not as good without them next season.

1078
00:48:23.820 --> 00:48:26.159
No, no, no, I don't mean next season.

1079
00:48:26.219 --> 00:48:28.260
I mean, the next 48 years.

1080
00:48:28.380 --> 00:48:30.900
It's a describe.

1081
00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:33.059
I kind of go, you know what?

1082
00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:35.579
That is the perfect end for you two.

1083
00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:39.780
It's a bit, it's a bit like, and some people felt this was wrong

1084
00:48:39.780 --> 00:48:44.280
but when Donna leaves, Um, people went, oh, but she's just getting

1085
00:48:44.280 --> 00:48:46.920
married off, but the thing is, all Donna ever wanted was someone

1086
00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:48.539
to be here.

1087
00:48:48.599 --> 00:48:49.199
It's a bride.

1088
00:48:49.260 --> 00:48:52.199
Well, she wanted she wanted someone to be her companion and to

1089
00:48:52.199 --> 00:48:55.679
love her and she didn't have that with her with her 1st fiance, but

1090
00:48:55.679 --> 00:48:56.880
she does get it with the 2nd one.

1091
00:48:56.940 --> 00:49:00.780
And Berner Crippens even says, oh, you know, he's not making

1092
00:49:00.780 --> 00:49:01.679
mountains of money.

1093
00:49:01.739 --> 00:49:02.880
No, Donna doesn't care about that.

1094
00:49:02.940 --> 00:49:03.659
Donald wants it.

1095
00:49:03.719 --> 00:49:04.619
Donna wants a companion.

1096
00:49:04.679 --> 00:49:05.760
Like the doctor.

1097
00:49:05.820 --> 00:49:08.460
But that's not Susan.

1098
00:49:08.519 --> 00:49:12.420
The way in and Barbara go is so right because they just kind of go

1099
00:49:12.420 --> 00:49:12.840
you know what?

1100
00:49:12.900 --> 00:49:15.960
We could go we could go on travelling with you, but this is our

1101
00:49:15.960 --> 00:49:16.920
chance to get home.

1102
00:49:16.980 --> 00:49:18.000
We want to get home.

1103
00:49:18.059 --> 00:49:19.079
We have experienced so much.

1104
00:49:19.139 --> 00:49:21.179
And they're the adults in the drama.

1105
00:49:21.239 --> 00:49:24.239
Yeah, and you see, and adults do adult things that make adult

1106
00:49:24.239 --> 00:49:24.840
decisions.

1107
00:49:24.900 --> 00:49:27.059
Billy is not an adult. as a child.

1108
00:49:27.179 --> 00:49:30.659
And Maureen is very much the same.

1109
00:49:30.719 --> 00:49:33.840
So yes, the children are, it's kind of dangerous and precipitous

1110
00:49:33.840 --> 00:49:34.199
isn't it?

1111
00:49:34.260 --> 00:49:35.579
The children are left with the magic box.

1112
00:49:35.639 --> 00:49:37.019
That's what's going to happen next.

1113
00:49:37.079 --> 00:49:43.199
Um, I will also say interestingly, when Rod and I watched it, I

1114
00:49:43.199 --> 00:49:46.920
didn't point out that Stephen was Morton Dill.

1115
00:49:46.980 --> 00:49:47.579
Okay.

1116
00:49:47.579 --> 00:49:49.920
And Rod really didn't like Morton Dill.

1117
00:49:49.980 --> 00:49:50.400
Of course.

1118
00:49:50.460 --> 00:49:54.119
He didn't eat, he said, is he doing an Australian accent?

1119
00:49:54.179 --> 00:49:54.960
I can't tell.

1120
00:49:55.260 --> 00:49:58.860
Beverly Hillbirdies was a big rating thing on British TV that

1121
00:49:58.860 --> 00:49:59.340
year.

1122
00:49:59.400 --> 00:50:03.000
But after the Tartars like New York, Roger said, oh God, he's the

1123
00:50:03.000 --> 00:50:04.619
worst supporting character yet.

1124
00:50:04.739 --> 00:50:05.760
What a terrible actor.

1125
00:50:05.820 --> 00:50:10.679
And then at the end of episode 6 of The Chase, Rod says, Stephen

1126
00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:11.519
should have gone with him.

1127
00:50:11.579 --> 00:50:12.000
He was great.

1128
00:50:12.659 --> 00:50:14.579
So, you know.

1129
00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:17.460
And of course, everyone wishes that Stephen kept his beard.

1130
00:50:17.519 --> 00:50:19.320
Yeah, the beard is good.

1131
00:50:19.380 --> 00:50:20.099
Yeah, then.

1132
00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:21.239
So now back then.

1133
00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:27.059
Well, on that topic of Stephen's beard, it's time to it's time to

1134
00:50:27.059 --> 00:50:30.780
move on to the last story of the season, which is the time.

1135
00:50:32.460 --> 00:50:35.579
Time to polish up our space car.

1136
00:50:35.639 --> 00:50:36.000
Yes.

1137
00:50:36.659 --> 00:50:39.780
So, um, 11th century England.

1138
00:50:40.260 --> 00:50:43.079
TARDIS lands on a beach.

1139
00:50:44.099 --> 00:50:47.219
Stephen is discovered inside the time.

1140
00:50:47.280 --> 00:50:49.860
Ian, you nearly did that thing that the doctor does when Susan

1141
00:50:49.860 --> 00:50:50.400
leaves.

1142
00:50:51.000 --> 00:50:52.079
Susan opened the door.

1143
00:50:52.139 --> 00:50:53.340
Open the door.

1144
00:50:53.400 --> 00:50:56.579
No, wait, no, I abandoned you in a post apocalyptic wasteland.

1145
00:50:56.639 --> 00:51:00.599
Um, So, yeah, the time medlock.

1146
00:51:00.659 --> 00:51:03.300
What a great story.

1147
00:51:03.360 --> 00:51:07.320
This feels like Dennis Spooner in Apopheosis, you know, as good as

1148
00:51:07.320 --> 00:51:11.219
the Romans is, this is where he gets the perfect balance of drama

1149
00:51:11.219 --> 00:51:12.840
and comedy. in a story.

1150
00:51:12.900 --> 00:51:16.739
And it's also helped along by the fact that he's got Peter

1151
00:51:16.739 --> 00:51:17.519
Butterworth.

1152
00:51:17.579 --> 00:51:18.659
Fantastic.

1153
00:51:18.719 --> 00:51:23.940
I mean, a carry-on, a carry-on actor as the villain.

1154
00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:27.059
I think he'd been in carry on at this...

1155
00:51:27.119 --> 00:51:28.019
No, you're quite right.

1156
00:51:28.079 --> 00:51:29.880
Yeah, a lot of that's no, that's true.

1157
00:51:29.940 --> 00:51:31.559
We had done comedy.

1158
00:51:31.679 --> 00:51:32.039
Yeah.

1159
00:51:32.099 --> 00:51:36.599
But yeah, a lot of people said there was this myth that verify saw

1160
00:51:36.599 --> 00:51:39.659
him in carry on and it's like, no, actually...

1161
00:51:39.659 --> 00:51:42.420
Carrie was doing much more sporadically than we think now.

1162
00:51:42.480 --> 00:51:43.619
No, it only got...

1163
00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:45.239
It wasn't a criminal or something.

1164
00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:47.760
Well, it's just done a lot of times, yeah.

1165
00:51:47.820 --> 00:51:52.619
Yeah, I think I think it was something like he was making a carry

1166
00:51:52.619 --> 00:51:56.219
on or possibly his 1st carry on when he got the offer for the

1167
00:51:56.219 --> 00:51:56.579
role.

1168
00:51:56.639 --> 00:51:58.199
So there's no possible correlation.

1169
00:51:58.260 --> 00:52:03.360
Plus, he's his persona in carry on because most of the time in

1170
00:52:03.360 --> 00:52:06.239
carry on, they have the same persona in each field, even if it's

1171
00:52:06.239 --> 00:52:10.980
not the same character, is very different to the monk who, right

1172
00:52:10.980 --> 00:52:13.500
from his 1st scene, there's like, there's something not right

1173
00:52:13.500 --> 00:52:13.800
about it.

1174
00:52:13.860 --> 00:52:16.260
Is this where all the rules are broken and the show restarts

1175
00:52:16.260 --> 00:52:16.440
again?

1176
00:52:16.500 --> 00:52:17.579
Well, it is.

1177
00:52:17.579 --> 00:52:19.260
It's the 1st shooto historical.

1178
00:52:19.320 --> 00:52:21.780
Nathan is actually jumping up and down.

1179
00:52:21.840 --> 00:52:22.559
I am a signer.

1180
00:52:22.619 --> 00:52:23.699
I'm excited.

1181
00:52:23.760 --> 00:52:24.900
There's a terror lepel in this one.

1182
00:52:27.719 --> 00:52:31.440
So it's historical and it's sort of it's sort of reasonably

1183
00:52:31.440 --> 00:52:33.420
entertaining, but it does break the rules and it actually changes

1184
00:52:33.420 --> 00:52:36.420
the premise of the entire show. in a way that the chase are just

1185
00:52:36.420 --> 00:52:36.719
done.

1186
00:52:36.780 --> 00:52:39.840
So the chase makes the daleks are equal to the doctor and even

1187
00:52:39.840 --> 00:52:41.699
better than the doctorate travelling through time.

1188
00:52:41.820 --> 00:52:44.940
And now we get this sort of incredible reveal, which is just

1189
00:52:44.940 --> 00:52:47.639
absolutely exemplified by that cliffhanger at the end of episode

1190
00:52:47.639 --> 00:52:50.579
three, which is the best cliffhanger so far.

1191
00:52:50.639 --> 00:52:52.619
Because you would never expect it.

1192
00:52:52.619 --> 00:52:55.980
And it's almost impossible to watch this now, isn't it properly?

1193
00:52:55.980 --> 00:52:59.460
And really experience like, 0 my god, there's another TARD.

1194
00:52:59.519 --> 00:52:59.760
Oh.

1195
00:52:59.820 --> 00:53:02.219
Oh my god, here's someone from the doctor's planet.

1196
00:53:02.280 --> 00:53:06.659
Do you assume it's the TARDIS from another time that he's captured

1197
00:53:06.659 --> 00:53:08.400
because it's a time...

1198
00:53:08.460 --> 00:53:09.239
No, no, no, no, no.

1199
00:53:09.300 --> 00:53:11.699
But I think that's a bit too sort of subtle and moffetish for the

1200
00:53:11.699 --> 00:53:12.840
audience in the 60s.

1201
00:53:12.900 --> 00:53:14.099
I've seen the Moffat have done.

1202
00:53:14.159 --> 00:53:16.260
What happened to that sir?

1203
00:53:16.320 --> 00:53:18.780
Did we run out of things that Stephen Moffatt would do?

1204
00:53:18.840 --> 00:53:19.980
He killed everyone and made them.

1205
00:53:21.300 --> 00:53:23.880
And then their baby turned into goo.

1206
00:53:23.940 --> 00:53:27.719
But I did not, obviously, when I 1st saw this one, I had read the

1207
00:53:27.719 --> 00:53:30.599
book, or whatever it was, that I think that, yeah, the book had

1208
00:53:30.599 --> 00:53:32.400
the book come out before the DVD.

1209
00:53:32.460 --> 00:53:34.139
Anyway, the video I should say.

1210
00:53:34.199 --> 00:53:38.699
But I did think you could see this as it's possible that it's the

1211
00:53:38.699 --> 00:53:41.880
Tartar, and somehow he's got it from another time, American.

1212
00:53:41.940 --> 00:53:44.280
But I mean, when she goes in there, she says, it's eight.

1213
00:53:44.280 --> 00:53:45.539
Yes, very quickly.

1214
00:53:45.599 --> 00:53:48.719
But it's that nice, as you say, it's that nice dissembling of

1215
00:53:48.719 --> 00:53:51.599
we're just not quite sure what's happening here or this throwing

1216
00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:51.960
it all out.

1217
00:53:52.019 --> 00:53:56.820
And it's all very sort of cleverly done and like I really like the

1218
00:53:56.820 --> 00:54:00.059
fact that the technology and the lead up to that has all been sort

1219
00:54:00.059 --> 00:54:03.360
of contemporary 60s technology. very contemporary.

1220
00:54:03.420 --> 00:54:05.159
TARDIS has a horizontal hold.

1221
00:54:06.659 --> 00:54:09.059
Sheer poetry, dear boy.

1222
00:54:09.119 --> 00:54:12.059
TVs used to have those when we had valve TVs because the pictures

1223
00:54:12.059 --> 00:54:15.179
would jump and TV's had a horizontal hold that we would.

1224
00:54:15.239 --> 00:54:16.619
So maybe that's what we should talk about.

1225
00:54:16.679 --> 00:54:19.320
It is because Stephen has stowed a word.

1226
00:54:19.380 --> 00:54:25.019
Yeah, well, yeah, Stephen sort of found the TARDIS and just... while

1227
00:54:25.019 --> 00:54:27.059
the doctor was off showing Ian and Barbara how to use the Dale

1228
00:54:27.059 --> 00:54:27.599
capsule.

1229
00:54:27.659 --> 00:54:29.280
So they weren't expecting to see him.

1230
00:54:29.340 --> 00:54:31.260
So he comes in and actually gets introduced.

1231
00:54:31.260 --> 00:54:36.900
And the story is really aware, I think that this is a huge gamble

1232
00:54:36.900 --> 00:54:40.679
for the show, that our 2 main audience identification figures out

1233
00:54:40.679 --> 00:54:44.099
the 2 human beings from present-day earth aren't in the show

1234
00:54:44.099 --> 00:54:44.639
anymore.

1235
00:54:44.699 --> 00:54:47.219
And episode one really goes out of its way.

1236
00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:52.019
You know, the doctor's off on his own and Instead of the doctor

1237
00:54:52.019 --> 00:54:54.960
and Vicky, which you pointed out before, Brendan is the usual

1238
00:54:54.960 --> 00:54:55.320
pair.

1239
00:54:55.619 --> 00:55:01.559
And so it's Stephen and Vicky and they're the new status quo and

1240
00:55:01.559 --> 00:55:02.820
they're great together.

1241
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:05.219
And instead of being mum, dad, and daughter.

1242
00:55:05.280 --> 00:55:06.239
It, now brother and sister.

1243
00:55:06.300 --> 00:55:07.860
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1244
00:55:07.920 --> 00:55:10.679
And they have a little bit of conflict and stuff, but it is that

1245
00:55:10.679 --> 00:55:12.719
sort of brother sister conflict.

1246
00:55:12.780 --> 00:55:16.860
That's, I think that, that is sort of terrific and it does, it

1247
00:55:16.860 --> 00:55:17.340
does work.

1248
00:55:17.400 --> 00:55:22.139
And what I like is, um, do you get the impression that Vicki has

1249
00:55:22.139 --> 00:55:25.500
learned from Barbara in that?

1250
00:55:25.559 --> 00:55:28.199
Yeah, Stephen does actually try some chauvinistic crap on it.

1251
00:55:28.260 --> 00:55:31.440
Like, he don't, he, he, all that says, we're doing this because

1252
00:55:31.440 --> 00:55:34.019
I'm the man, but he kind of says, oh, we're doing this.

1253
00:55:34.079 --> 00:55:36.780
And Vicky said, Vicky actually just grabs him at one point.

1254
00:55:36.840 --> 00:55:38.579
Supposing you do as I say for once.

1255
00:55:39.059 --> 00:55:42.360
It's like that...

1256
00:55:42.420 --> 00:55:43.380
That's Barbara.

1257
00:55:43.440 --> 00:55:48.059
And that's the wonderful thing that the show is kind of saying

1258
00:55:48.059 --> 00:55:51.119
okay, we know our strong female lead has gone.

1259
00:55:51.480 --> 00:55:55.920
Even though this girl is only in her teens, she is still a strong

1260
00:55:55.920 --> 00:55:59.159
female character, and it's the kind of thing that Joss Whedon took

1261
00:55:59.159 --> 00:56:02.460
away from Doctor Who. because Josh Wheaton has cited Doctor Who as

1262
00:56:02.460 --> 00:56:04.739
an influence on his work.

1263
00:56:04.800 --> 00:56:05.579
Right.

1264
00:56:05.579 --> 00:56:09.360
Um, and Doctor Who is that because of story arcing?

1265
00:56:09.420 --> 00:56:10.980
It is the 1st show to do real story.

1266
00:56:11.460 --> 00:56:14.039
Story arcing, but I think he has also cited his female

1267
00:56:14.039 --> 00:56:14.760
characters.

1268
00:56:14.820 --> 00:56:17.340
And, you know, he doesn't he doesn't like being asked about why he

1269
00:56:17.340 --> 00:56:19.500
has strong female characters because his response is always

1270
00:56:19.500 --> 00:56:21.900
because you keep bloody asking like it's something unusual.

1271
00:56:21.960 --> 00:56:23.699
Yeah, right.

1272
00:56:23.699 --> 00:56:28.739
You know, I am aware for any of your listeners out there that it's

1273
00:56:28.739 --> 00:56:31.920
probably a bit odd for us to be going on.

1274
00:56:31.980 --> 00:56:34.139
It's constantly about female characters, but unfortunately it is

1275
00:56:34.139 --> 00:56:36.659
still something that's remarkable having a strong female

1276
00:56:36.659 --> 00:56:37.139
character.

1277
00:56:37.260 --> 00:56:40.679
I say remarkably in the sense of something to be remarked upon.

1278
00:56:40.739 --> 00:56:43.739
But I think it's, I think it's still important to remark upon it

1279
00:56:43.739 --> 00:56:47.460
until it is something that we don't talk about.

1280
00:56:48.119 --> 00:56:49.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1281
00:56:49.079 --> 00:56:53.460
It's, it's, well, it's, it's a big thing for a 60s show and it's

1282
00:56:53.460 --> 00:56:57.960
great that, it shows some growth in the character of Vicky.

1283
00:56:58.739 --> 00:57:03.539
This is the one where Billy disappears for an episode again, isn't

1284
00:57:03.539 --> 00:57:03.659
it?

1285
00:57:03.780 --> 00:57:05.400
It's just that episode.

1286
00:57:05.820 --> 00:57:07.980
Yeah, he's locked up so...

1287
00:57:08.039 --> 00:57:08.639
Yes.

1288
00:57:10.019 --> 00:57:12.360
You know, this is actually the episode.

1289
00:57:12.360 --> 00:57:16.440
Oh, so it's just a story where the Cushion film came out. to the

1290
00:57:16.440 --> 00:57:17.639
70s in 65.

1291
00:57:17.820 --> 00:57:21.840
Um, and I wonder if we're looking at Billy's performance and

1292
00:57:21.840 --> 00:57:24.119
because he's pretty razor in this, even though there is some

1293
00:57:24.119 --> 00:57:25.500
fantastic Billy fluffs.

1294
00:57:26.820 --> 00:57:30.539
I wonder if he's starting to realise this is the 1st point of his

1295
00:57:30.539 --> 00:57:31.199
mortality.

1296
00:57:31.260 --> 00:57:32.400
He is replaceable.

1297
00:57:32.460 --> 00:57:35.639
Cushing is now a cinema doctor and that's the big thing.

1298
00:57:35.699 --> 00:57:37.559
Okay, didn't do that well at the cinemas.

1299
00:57:37.619 --> 00:57:41.519
But maybe it's just the 1st point that we're going to start seeing

1300
00:57:41.519 --> 00:57:45.900
where Billy has certain methods to try and get the production crew

1301
00:57:45.900 --> 00:57:47.280
to do what he wants to do.

1302
00:57:47.340 --> 00:57:53.400
I think characters, I mean, people had the had the week off, you

1303
00:57:53.400 --> 00:57:54.360
know, from time to time.

1304
00:57:54.420 --> 00:57:57.059
Yeah, he took a sickie apparently, doing this one.

1305
00:57:57.119 --> 00:58:00.420
I don't know, man, he was, I'm just sort of starting to see the

1306
00:58:00.420 --> 00:58:03.780
fragility because, you know, he's, he really took it very much to

1307
00:58:03.780 --> 00:58:05.039
heart when he fluffed his lines.

1308
00:58:05.099 --> 00:58:06.059
He did take it very seriously.

1309
00:58:06.179 --> 00:58:09.119
And of course, he knew that by the stage that Verity was leaving.

1310
00:58:09.179 --> 00:58:09.780
Exactly.

1311
00:58:09.840 --> 00:58:11.280
Yeah, okay, yeah, that's a big thing.

1312
00:58:11.340 --> 00:58:12.599
That was a major thing.

1313
00:58:12.659 --> 00:58:16.380
But, I mean, in our next set of podcasts, we'll really talk about

1314
00:58:16.380 --> 00:58:18.599
this because the production team just easy now.

1315
00:58:18.659 --> 00:58:19.679
Yeah, nothing to do.

1316
00:58:20.280 --> 00:58:21.480
So that's all I'm hinting at.

1317
00:58:21.539 --> 00:58:24.300
It's just the beginning of that, yeah.

1318
00:58:24.360 --> 00:58:28.559
Previously he's only had that episode of Dalek Invasion.

1319
00:58:28.619 --> 00:58:31.139
Well, that was because of the illness.

1320
00:58:31.199 --> 00:58:33.420
He did have 2 episodes off in the keys of Mariners.

1321
00:58:33.480 --> 00:58:36.360
I'm just trying to think this year...

1322
00:58:36.480 --> 00:58:38.760
Oh, he had an episode off in the Space Museum.

1323
00:58:38.820 --> 00:58:39.480
He had episode three.

1324
00:58:39.539 --> 00:58:41.039
Oh, that's right, because he's...

1325
00:58:41.039 --> 00:58:42.360
The search deep freeze.

1326
00:58:42.480 --> 00:58:43.019
Yeah.

1327
00:58:43.019 --> 00:58:43.320
Yeah.

1328
00:58:43.619 --> 00:58:43.920
Okay.

1329
00:58:43.980 --> 00:58:47.219
So he does have an episode off occasionally and it is sort of a

1330
00:58:47.219 --> 00:58:47.940
punishing thing.

1331
00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:51.719
There's 42 episodes or something in there this season. 45

1332
00:58:51.719 --> 00:58:54.960
something crazy. 45, they'd made 9 previously.

1333
00:58:55.019 --> 00:58:57.239
But they made another four.

1334
00:58:57.300 --> 00:58:59.099
So if you had so, yeah, 40 episodes.

1335
00:58:59.159 --> 00:59:00.840
He made he made on the run.

1336
00:59:00.900 --> 00:59:01.320
Okay.

1337
00:59:01.320 --> 00:59:04.079
It's interesting then to go back to the character of the doctor

1338
00:59:04.079 --> 00:59:07.139
that he's just his self-duplicity.

1339
00:59:07.199 --> 00:59:08.820
Maybe hypocrisy.

1340
00:59:08.880 --> 00:59:11.460
He's the one who calls the monk of time meddler.

1341
00:59:11.519 --> 00:59:12.300
What does he do?

1342
00:59:12.360 --> 00:59:15.000
Yeah, but what does Billy actually do?

1343
00:59:15.119 --> 00:59:16.500
I think the monk even says that.

1344
00:59:16.559 --> 00:59:17.519
It's like, well what about you?

1345
00:59:17.579 --> 00:59:22.139
Well, I don't compare with history except when it's not actually

1346
00:59:22.139 --> 00:59:24.119
recorded history in the present time, blah.

1347
00:59:24.179 --> 00:59:25.980
But there has been a rule.

1348
00:59:26.519 --> 00:59:27.239
You know what I mean?

1349
00:59:27.300 --> 00:59:30.300
Like a rule that has been fairly that has been fairly

1350
00:59:30.300 --> 00:59:31.260
consistently.

1351
00:59:31.320 --> 00:59:36.900
Um, uh, you know, that there is no danger that um, the doctor will

1352
00:59:36.900 --> 00:59:41.699
sort of assassinate Nero or, you know, um, he's not going to

1353
00:59:41.699 --> 00:59:42.059
change.

1354
00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:43.440
He's not going to change.

1355
00:59:43.559 --> 00:59:45.059
Yeah, that's right.

1356
00:59:45.119 --> 00:59:45.539
He don't.

1357
00:59:45.539 --> 00:59:47.519
He stops. getting Nero the poison.

1358
00:59:47.579 --> 00:59:49.739
Yeah, Vicky, Vicky tries to give Nero poison.

1359
00:59:49.800 --> 00:59:53.340
And so and that is a rule.

1360
00:59:53.400 --> 00:59:54.179
Do you know what I mean?

1361
00:59:54.300 --> 00:59:57.360
And he's one of the, the show doesn't have that many premises in

1362
00:59:57.360 --> 01:00:00.420
the sense that, you know, the doctor isn't from Gallifrey and the

1363
01:00:00.420 --> 01:00:04.260
constellation of Conservatus, you know, with the type 40 TARDS.

1364
01:00:04.260 --> 01:00:05.099
Conservatus.

1365
01:00:05.099 --> 01:00:08.039
The constellation.

1366
01:00:08.039 --> 01:00:09.840
None of that sort of stuff is in place yet.

1367
01:00:09.900 --> 01:00:12.599
But we do know this, that the doctor can't interfere with

1368
01:00:12.599 --> 01:00:13.500
history.

1369
01:00:13.559 --> 01:00:18.900
And, and, and the fun thing is, the stuff that, like, doesn't he

1370
01:00:18.900 --> 01:00:21.780
have, he's got hilarious Lionel Hutz.

1371
01:00:21.840 --> 01:00:26.039
No, no, he's got a hilarious, um, the guy who sells the monorail

1372
01:00:26.039 --> 01:00:26.880
to Springfield.

1373
01:00:26.940 --> 01:00:29.219
Oh, yes, I don't know his name.

1374
01:00:29.280 --> 01:00:30.480
Yeah, yeah, but it's...

1375
01:00:30.539 --> 01:00:31.860
He's got that long list.

1376
01:00:31.920 --> 01:00:34.019
You know who they find his to-do list?

1377
01:00:34.079 --> 01:00:35.099
Yeah, yeah.

1378
01:00:35.099 --> 01:00:36.239
Light beacon fires.

1379
01:00:36.239 --> 01:00:37.199
Set up later.

1380
01:00:37.199 --> 01:00:43.500
Yeah, it's like, give atomic weapons to the invading Vikings or

1381
01:00:43.500 --> 01:00:43.739
something.

1382
01:00:43.800 --> 01:00:47.159
You know, like he has changed history.

1383
01:00:47.219 --> 01:00:47.820
Yes.

1384
01:00:47.820 --> 01:00:48.599
Yeah.

1385
01:00:48.659 --> 01:00:52.019
And he changes history for his own material benefit.

1386
01:00:52.079 --> 01:00:55.440
And but also because it's funny, I think, as well.

1387
01:00:55.500 --> 01:00:57.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1388
01:00:57.300 --> 01:01:00.000
Oh, do you mean like he puts money in a bank account and then

1389
01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:04.260
leaps forward and collects the the compound?

1390
01:01:04.320 --> 01:01:08.400
And we do see like a few art treasures in the corner of his

1391
01:01:08.400 --> 01:01:09.179
console room.

1392
01:01:09.239 --> 01:01:10.079
Okay, fair.

1393
01:01:10.079 --> 01:01:11.280
That kind of thing.

1394
01:01:11.340 --> 01:01:14.340
But what I find absolutely lovely.

1395
01:01:14.400 --> 01:01:18.960
You've got you've got that thing of him changing time for his own

1396
01:01:18.960 --> 01:01:22.440
benefit and because he's having fun, but also it means that he can

1397
01:01:22.440 --> 01:01:24.659
live in a monastery and not be disturbed and have his little

1398
01:01:24.659 --> 01:01:28.019
electric flight fry pan. and his toaster and his coffee dripper

1399
01:01:28.019 --> 01:01:28.619
Asia or whatever.

1400
01:01:28.679 --> 01:01:34.199
But he doesn't have state of the art, like fancy futuristic

1401
01:01:34.199 --> 01:01:35.579
appliances, as you were saying, food machine.

1402
01:01:35.639 --> 01:01:36.480
It's all content.

1403
01:01:36.539 --> 01:01:37.500
Yeah, he doesn't have food machine.

1404
01:01:37.559 --> 01:01:40.380
It's all contemporary stuff and he's just squatting in a

1405
01:01:40.380 --> 01:01:40.860
monastery.

1406
01:01:40.920 --> 01:01:43.920
I also think that that just makes the anachronism more fun.

1407
01:01:43.980 --> 01:01:44.699
Do you know what I mean?

1408
01:01:44.880 --> 01:01:48.900
Like it is, it's the fact that it's a wristwatch like we would

1409
01:01:48.900 --> 01:01:52.860
have for an electric frying pan like we might just have bought, you

1410
01:01:52.860 --> 01:01:53.699
know, in the past.

1411
01:01:53.760 --> 01:01:57.840
That's much more fun and interesting than some futuristic bliz

1412
01:01:57.179 --> 01:01:58.139
bloss device.

1413
01:01:58.199 --> 01:01:58.980
You know what I mean?

1414
01:01:59.039 --> 01:02:01.380
It's being made by the production team.

1415
01:02:01.440 --> 01:02:04.559
It just makes the anachronism much more fun.

1416
01:02:04.619 --> 01:02:09.420
And, I mean, this is another case where the quality of the guest

1417
01:02:09.420 --> 01:02:11.340
star influences Billy's performance.

1418
01:02:11.400 --> 01:02:15.059
Because especially in episode 3, when he starts getting the upper

1419
01:02:15.059 --> 01:02:18.780
hand on the monk and getting into his own habit and making the

1420
01:02:18.780 --> 01:02:21.599
monk think that he's got a shotgun in his spinal column and he

1421
01:02:21.599 --> 01:02:25.199
even says like something like, I've got a 12 ball, double barrel

1422
01:02:25.199 --> 01:02:29.820
shotgun aimed at the bottom of your spinal column. a stick, isn't

1423
01:02:29.820 --> 01:02:29.940
it?

1424
01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:30.840
Yeah, it's a stick.

1425
01:02:30.900 --> 01:02:36.179
But, you know, it's the doctor going, I'm going to blow your spine

1426
01:02:36.179 --> 01:02:36.719
apart.

1427
01:02:36.780 --> 01:02:38.519
They're really fun together there.

1428
01:02:38.579 --> 01:02:39.960
Yeah, really terrifically fun.

1429
01:02:40.019 --> 01:02:40.920
No more monkery.

1430
01:02:41.340 --> 01:02:46.320
And the whole, you know, he's from my planet, but he's from 50

1431
01:02:46.320 --> 01:02:47.760
years in the future.

1432
01:02:47.820 --> 01:02:49.739
Oh, so is Hitard more advanced than you was?

1433
01:02:51.179 --> 01:02:54.780
Is his car newer than yours.

1434
01:02:56.400 --> 01:02:59.760
Nothing wrong with my car and I prefer walking to a mountain goat

1435
01:02:59.760 --> 01:03:00.119
any day.

1436
01:03:00.179 --> 01:03:00.599
Yes.

1437
01:03:00.599 --> 01:03:01.079
Yes.

1438
01:03:01.260 --> 01:03:03.539
We never got to see the mountain goat.

1439
01:03:03.719 --> 01:03:06.360
We can get the space car helmet.

1440
01:03:06.420 --> 01:03:10.860
Now, isn't this, you mentioned earlier, the script editor gets the

1441
01:03:10.860 --> 01:03:13.320
go of doing the last story with the income.

1442
01:03:13.380 --> 01:03:17.219
Is this Wild's 1st John Wild's 1st shot as producer?

1443
01:03:17.280 --> 01:03:17.639
No.

1444
01:03:17.639 --> 01:03:19.260
No, John R.

1445
01:03:19.260 --> 01:03:21.900
This last got his initial. to the unknown.

1446
01:03:21.960 --> 01:03:24.960
Yeah, John Wiles was probably in the office following around.

1447
01:03:25.019 --> 01:03:26.280
Donald Tosh certainly was.

1448
01:03:26.400 --> 01:03:28.139
Tosh was definitely present on this show.

1449
01:03:28.199 --> 01:03:33.719
Yeah, Tosh was present and I think because Dennis had wrote it, he

1450
01:03:33.719 --> 01:03:35.760
sort of edited it with Donald Tosh.

1451
01:03:35.820 --> 01:03:39.659
I could be wrong on that, dear listener, if you'd like to write an

1452
01:03:39.659 --> 01:03:40.019
increase.

1453
01:03:40.920 --> 01:03:43.139
Tosh was walking around on it.

1454
01:03:43.260 --> 01:03:48.960
I think Tosh did most of the work on Galaxy 4 and then was...

1455
01:03:50.880 --> 01:03:53.760
It's kind of, it's kind of weird because Dennis Spooner was still

1456
01:03:53.760 --> 01:03:56.039
in the production office for the Daleks master plan.

1457
01:03:56.099 --> 01:03:59.880
But Verity did most of the pre-production work on the Dalek's

1458
01:03:59.880 --> 01:04:02.039
master plan, and it was John Welles who actually had it in the

1459
01:04:02.039 --> 01:04:02.340
studio.

1460
01:04:02.400 --> 01:04:06.780
But Donald Tosh was also, like, it was this, it was this weird

1461
01:04:06.780 --> 01:04:08.699
combination of all 4 of them.

1462
01:04:09.059 --> 01:04:13.019
A lot of hateful people who aren't Verity Lambert coming in and

1463
01:04:13.019 --> 01:04:16.019
start ruining my favourite show. don't we?

1464
01:04:16.079 --> 01:04:17.699
Yeah, something's being taken away.

1465
01:04:17.760 --> 01:04:20.760
But until that happens, we do have we do still have the lovely

1466
01:04:20.760 --> 01:04:28.800
lightness of the monk trying to blow up a fleet of ships. with AEO

1467
01:04:30.659 --> 01:04:33.719
an atomic laser can. an atomic laser can. actually destroy modern

1468
01:04:33.719 --> 01:04:36.000
Britain as we know, you're talking about the Battle of Hastings.

1469
01:04:36.119 --> 01:04:37.139
We're talking 1066.

1470
01:04:37.320 --> 01:04:41.099
Yeah, in fact, it's even more political a thing than Billy

1471
01:04:41.099 --> 01:04:44.820
interfering with Richard's campaign on the Crusade or...

1472
01:04:44.820 --> 01:04:47.579
If only he'd thought of setting fire to Magna Carta.

1473
01:04:47.699 --> 01:04:52.320
But what I'm really fascinating about it is he, the monk insists

1474
01:04:52.320 --> 01:04:58.260
that if he stops this war and this battle and the subsequent wars

1475
01:04:58.260 --> 01:05:01.860
that came from it, Earth will be more technologically advanced.

1476
01:05:01.980 --> 01:05:06.719
But when we look back at the 20th century, Humanity has had its

1477
01:05:06.719 --> 01:05:10.619
greatest technological advances through war technology that has

1478
01:05:10.619 --> 01:05:12.179
then been adapted for home use.

1479
01:05:12.300 --> 01:05:16.380
And I don't know if that wasn't a popular theory in the 60s or if

1480
01:05:16.380 --> 01:05:18.000
that was a theory at all, but it's very interesting.

1481
01:05:18.059 --> 01:05:21.119
I'm saying this military progression, the space race, it was the

1482
01:05:21.119 --> 01:05:24.780
thing that was giving us that, you know, JPL, which has been to

1483
01:05:24.780 --> 01:05:25.320
tang.

1484
01:05:25.380 --> 01:05:28.500
No, that's actually Teflon true, but Tang no.

1485
01:05:28.980 --> 01:05:32.039
Yeah, no, it was the product that bought into it.

1486
01:05:32.099 --> 01:05:33.360
They didn't actually use it.

1487
01:05:33.420 --> 01:05:34.920
What are the space food sticks?

1488
01:05:34.980 --> 01:05:36.659
Oh, no, again, okay.

1489
01:05:36.780 --> 01:05:39.300
Freeze dried ice cream was though.

1490
01:05:39.360 --> 01:05:40.079
They didn't they?

1491
01:05:40.139 --> 01:05:41.280
There wasn't being up there.

1492
01:05:41.340 --> 01:05:42.599
New Gar in other words.

1493
01:05:43.199 --> 01:05:48.659
But yeah, the military was seen as a whole equal thing still, that

1494
01:05:48.659 --> 01:05:50.519
it won our cell security and our safety.

1495
01:05:50.579 --> 01:05:55.380
It was Vietnam, however, and Korea before that, Vietnam was about

1496
01:05:55.380 --> 01:05:57.599
to change all of that in a really conspicuous way.

1497
01:05:57.659 --> 01:06:00.719
Because people were finally seeing the war as it happened on the

1498
01:06:00.719 --> 01:06:00.960
TV.

1499
01:06:01.019 --> 01:06:03.000
That's right. another world inside the TV.

1500
01:06:03.119 --> 01:06:07.860
And which leads us to another postmodern joke in Doctor Who, where

1501
01:06:07.860 --> 01:06:10.619
the monkey is saying, but, you know, we'll have all this

1502
01:06:10.619 --> 01:06:11.039
technology.

1503
01:06:11.099 --> 01:06:13.500
Hamlet will prep me air on television and the doctor just sneers

1504
01:06:13.500 --> 01:06:14.039
down his nose.

1505
01:06:14.099 --> 01:06:15.239
Yes, thank you. know the medium.

1506
01:06:17.039 --> 01:06:19.199
What a great place then.

1507
01:06:19.260 --> 01:06:21.000
It's kind of like, you know what?

1508
01:06:21.420 --> 01:06:27.119
You know, Billy... had more faith in film and stage than

1509
01:06:27.119 --> 01:06:31.079
television, but he still he still kind of slumber on television

1510
01:06:31.079 --> 01:06:32.280
because he likes the part.

1511
01:06:32.760 --> 01:06:35.460
No, he saw this is his greatest part.

1512
01:06:35.519 --> 01:06:38.219
I think that's just a really nice little nudge in the room.

1513
01:06:39.179 --> 01:06:41.880
Yes, a lantern, as they say.

1514
01:06:41.940 --> 01:06:45.300
Oh, and we've got Althea Charlton back again.

1515
01:06:45.360 --> 01:06:49.019
Um, her from um, The old woman.

1516
01:06:49.079 --> 01:06:50.039
No, no, the young one.

1517
01:06:50.099 --> 01:06:50.579
Oh, her.

1518
01:06:51.420 --> 01:06:53.340
That's, you know, using names.

1519
01:06:53.340 --> 01:06:56.099
And Spike Jones would say...

1520
01:06:56.099 --> 01:06:58.079
Poor Alethea Charlton.

1521
01:06:58.139 --> 01:07:04.679
She's, you know, pillaged, can I just say, to avoid the explicit

1522
01:07:04.679 --> 01:07:08.940
tag by Sven and Ulf and their Viking mates.

1523
01:07:09.000 --> 01:07:11.099
She's pillaged into Catatonia.

1524
01:07:11.159 --> 01:07:14.460
And then I think it might be the one area where Spooner doesn't

1525
01:07:14.460 --> 01:07:15.360
balance the drive.

1526
01:07:15.360 --> 01:07:18.119
At the moments later, she's up making them tea or something.

1527
01:07:18.179 --> 01:07:21.360
But the tea had been invented, but making them something.

1528
01:07:21.420 --> 01:07:24.360
There is a scene there where she's just sitting there and not

1529
01:07:24.360 --> 01:07:25.019
saying anything.

1530
01:07:25.079 --> 01:07:28.139
Yeah, staring off into space and that is that is quite harrowing.

1531
01:07:28.199 --> 01:07:30.900
But it was just horrible lapse of tone, really.

1532
01:07:31.019 --> 01:07:32.460
Yeah, we didn't need to have it.

1533
01:07:32.519 --> 01:07:36.000
But at the same time, I think children watching at the time may

1534
01:07:36.000 --> 01:07:37.019
not have picked up on it.

1535
01:07:37.079 --> 01:07:40.019
You know, they would have thought that they scared her or

1536
01:07:40.019 --> 01:07:40.500
something like that.

1537
01:07:40.559 --> 01:07:43.440
Yeah, but I mean, really, you know, they're Vikings.

1538
01:07:43.500 --> 01:07:46.260
Even if they're comedy vocals.

1539
01:07:46.320 --> 01:07:46.679
Yes.

1540
01:07:46.920 --> 01:07:48.300
Yes.

1541
01:07:48.360 --> 01:07:52.500
It is a very odd moment and oh, to overanalyse it.

1542
01:07:52.559 --> 01:07:55.559
It's something that Barbara was threatened with constantly and

1543
01:07:55.559 --> 01:07:56.039
never happened.

1544
01:07:56.099 --> 01:07:58.139
And now that Barbara's gone, it's happened to someone.

1545
01:07:58.199 --> 01:08:00.960
You know, someone has been attacked in that way.

1546
01:08:01.019 --> 01:08:04.800
So the show's going to take a turn into nastiness because it's no

1547
01:08:04.800 --> 01:08:09.900
longer grounded by the need to have Ian and Barbara in it.

1548
01:08:09.960 --> 01:08:12.539
And this is going to be huge in season three.

1549
01:08:12.599 --> 01:08:17.819
Spoiler alert, that the show does things which I think that Doctor

1550
01:08:17.819 --> 01:08:19.319
Who probably ought not to be doing.

1551
01:08:19.380 --> 01:08:20.880
Oh, and Billy thought that as well.

1552
01:08:20.939 --> 01:08:27.600
And it is, I think it's freed up. by not having things resembling

1553
01:08:27.600 --> 01:08:29.100
real people in it anymore.

1554
01:08:29.159 --> 01:08:30.000
Yeah.

1555
01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:32.699
And like however good Peter Purvis is.

1556
01:08:32.760 --> 01:08:37.199
He has like a really thin backstory.

1557
01:08:37.979 --> 01:08:41.880
And like he's virtually just there to do whatever the plot

1558
01:08:41.880 --> 01:08:42.300
requires.

1559
01:08:42.359 --> 01:08:43.920
He's where...

1560
01:08:43.979 --> 01:08:47.279
He's a young and sporty combination of bulldog drama.

1561
01:08:47.279 --> 01:08:50.880
He conducts the Douglas Vader, who, you know, was the...

1562
01:08:50.880 --> 01:08:54.000
But in Galaxy 4, next year, he's going to be wearing Barbara's

1563
01:08:54.000 --> 01:08:59.220
cardigan and sort of... muelling in an airlock.

1564
01:08:59.220 --> 01:09:00.840
Could that be the title of that one?

1565
01:09:00.840 --> 01:09:06.899
But do you know what I mean?

1566
01:09:06.960 --> 01:09:11.100
Like he's gotten really no discernable characteristics at all. so

1567
01:09:11.100 --> 01:09:13.800
it does stop grounding the show, I think, in a way.

1568
01:09:13.859 --> 01:09:16.739
And so that, let's call that. foil to Billy, isn't he?

1569
01:09:16.800 --> 01:09:18.180
And he does a great job of that.

1570
01:09:18.239 --> 01:09:19.439
He compliments him perfectly.

1571
01:09:19.500 --> 01:09:25.739
But let's see the pillaging of Alethea as the harbinger of

1572
01:09:25.739 --> 01:09:26.819
terrible things to calm.

1573
01:09:26.939 --> 01:09:28.140
Yes, yes.

1574
01:09:28.199 --> 01:09:33.659
Well, on that, on that downbeat note, we move into our prize

1575
01:09:33.659 --> 01:09:35.520
giving art section.

1576
01:09:43.739 --> 01:09:49.199
The Jenny Laird Award for most puzzling creative choice.

1577
01:09:49.260 --> 01:09:50.399
Gentlemen, do we have any thoughts?

1578
01:09:50.460 --> 01:09:53.880
Well, I mean, we've touched on it already, but it really has to go

1579
01:09:53.880 --> 01:10:00.300
to Richard Martin, who is a lovely man, undoubtedly a lovely man

1580
01:10:00.300 --> 01:10:05.340
and he, you know, the cravat is great, and on the DVD extras, he's

1581
01:10:05.340 --> 01:10:06.720
just, he just seems gorgeous.

1582
01:10:06.779 --> 01:10:12.000
But why is Edmund Warwick cast when he looks absolutely nothing

1583
01:10:12.000 --> 01:10:13.319
like the doctor at all?

1584
01:10:13.439 --> 01:10:16.319
to be the doctor's robot replica?

1585
01:10:16.380 --> 01:10:19.439
And like the whole way that's directed is really confusing?

1586
01:10:19.500 --> 01:10:22.920
Because I think Edmund Warwick looking nothing like Bill Hartnell

1587
01:10:22.920 --> 01:10:27.899
is actually meant to be the doctor at one and, you know, like it's

1588
01:10:27.899 --> 01:10:32.699
it's not that story isn't really a triumph of the televisual art

1589
01:10:32.699 --> 01:10:34.560
to be honest, however much I adore it.

1590
01:10:34.619 --> 01:10:38.159
And that's really its huge downfall.

1591
01:10:38.220 --> 01:10:41.579
So Richard Martin, possibly Edmund Warwick, why not?

1592
01:10:41.640 --> 01:10:42.720
They could share it.

1593
01:10:43.619 --> 01:10:48.420
I had Richard Martin as well, but for other reasons, and I just, I

1594
01:10:48.420 --> 01:10:55.380
think that it shows how the 70s would come about to get it right

1595
01:10:55.380 --> 01:10:58.619
and that you had more than one voice on the floor more than one

1596
01:10:58.619 --> 01:10:58.920
face.

1597
01:10:58.979 --> 01:11:02.579
And I think when you saw how Barry Letts is going to work with

1598
01:11:02.579 --> 01:11:04.199
Terence Dix together.

1599
01:11:04.260 --> 01:11:08.399
Martin is we've touched on before, would have been terrific if

1600
01:11:08.399 --> 01:11:12.720
they could have afforded, say, a Dougie Campfield along with him

1601
01:11:12.720 --> 01:11:17.340
or if the gentleness of Richard Martin and the character were

1602
01:11:17.340 --> 01:11:19.979
Dougie Stan, Canfield stands by himself, he doesn't need anyone

1603
01:11:19.979 --> 01:11:20.699
else along.

1604
01:11:20.760 --> 01:11:24.960
But most of the other directors do, and having someone else there

1605
01:11:24.960 --> 01:11:27.539
maybe just more verity on the floor, who knows?

1606
01:11:27.600 --> 01:11:30.300
We just know how busy they all were and how really tightly these

1607
01:11:30.300 --> 01:11:31.199
things were produced.

1608
01:11:31.260 --> 01:11:32.760
This was live theatre.

1609
01:11:32.819 --> 01:11:36.539
So it's extraordinary that what we see is even watchable today.

1610
01:11:36.600 --> 01:11:39.180
Well, I mean they're not even directing from the floor, are they?

1611
01:11:39.239 --> 01:11:39.899
They're up in the control.

1612
01:11:40.020 --> 01:11:43.020
No, they're under control. chatting down, but you know, you look

1613
01:11:43.020 --> 01:11:46.739
at other shows at the time that are on that are available, such as

1614
01:11:46.739 --> 01:11:48.119
we've mentioned before the Avengers.

1615
01:11:48.180 --> 01:11:49.739
Long, that's actually pretty clunky.

1616
01:11:49.739 --> 01:11:53.640
And that was, if not, not actually such a big budget show, but

1617
01:11:53.640 --> 01:11:57.899
primetime viewing, it was absolutely right on the on the edge of

1618
01:11:57.899 --> 01:12:00.359
popularity, this being the biggest thing there.

1619
01:12:00.420 --> 01:12:02.460
Doctor Who looks better frequently.

1620
01:12:03.779 --> 01:12:06.060
Phrases you rarely hear.

1621
01:12:06.119 --> 01:12:07.079
Yeah, yeah.

1622
01:12:07.920 --> 01:12:11.640
Well, I think I think my award for most puzzling creative choice.

1623
01:12:11.699 --> 01:12:14.039
It's something we've already touched upon again.

1624
01:12:14.100 --> 01:12:20.100
But I think it has to, for me, be Dennis Spooner's treatment of

1625
01:12:20.100 --> 01:12:23.220
women in his scripts because he has some very strong roles, but

1626
01:12:23.220 --> 01:12:28.260
for him, the his ultimate threat for a woman is for a man to

1627
01:12:28.260 --> 01:12:29.220
attack her sexually.

1628
01:12:29.520 --> 01:12:32.460
And that has been a lot of that, hasn't it?

1629
01:12:32.520 --> 01:12:36.479
Yeah, but it just seems to come up a lot with Dennis Spooner

1630
01:12:36.479 --> 01:12:42.539
because he does it quote unquote comedically in the Romans and

1631
01:12:42.539 --> 01:12:45.720
then does it quite seriously in the time meddler.

1632
01:12:45.720 --> 01:12:47.760
And I just...

1633
01:12:47.760 --> 01:12:52.319
I understand the sexual politics of the time were different, but

1634
01:12:52.319 --> 01:12:53.220
in...

1635
01:12:53.279 --> 01:12:55.680
We also had a lot of that in season one as well with Barbara

1636
01:12:55.680 --> 01:12:56.279
so...

1637
01:12:56.279 --> 01:12:56.880
Pre-Dennis.

1638
01:12:56.939 --> 01:12:57.960
In so, yeah.

1639
01:12:58.020 --> 01:13:01.680
In so many other ways, though, his characterisation, and certainly

1640
01:13:01.680 --> 01:13:04.319
the way he writes Barbara and Vicki, is very strong.

1641
01:13:04.380 --> 01:13:06.600
You know, they're very strong characters.

1642
01:13:06.659 --> 01:13:09.840
So I'm using the word puzzling in that.

1643
01:13:09.960 --> 01:13:12.779
Why that weird tension?

1644
01:13:12.840 --> 01:13:18.000
of, you know, we've got these strong women who can push the plot

1645
01:13:18.000 --> 01:13:18.899
along by themselves.

1646
01:13:18.960 --> 01:13:21.779
They don't need a man to guide them through the plot, but at the

1647
01:13:21.779 --> 01:13:25.439
same time, that is a way to imperil them.

1648
01:13:25.500 --> 01:13:30.479
But, you know, that is a topic for a whole other podcast.

1649
01:13:30.539 --> 01:13:33.000
We could do a whole series on that topic.

1650
01:13:33.060 --> 01:13:36.539
Um, Recommendations, gentlemen.

1651
01:13:36.600 --> 01:13:37.859
Yeah, I have.

1652
01:13:37.920 --> 01:13:40.140
Further reading homework for you at home.

1653
01:13:40.199 --> 01:13:44.159
Oh, this is, again, maybe because these are sort of early

1654
01:13:44.159 --> 01:13:47.579
recommendations and things I'm sort of treading, you know, over

1655
01:13:47.579 --> 01:13:50.699
sort of rather obvious ones and, you know, last time it was about

1656
01:13:50.699 --> 01:13:51.479
time.

1657
01:13:51.539 --> 01:13:52.920
So I'm going to do the same thing.

1658
01:13:52.979 --> 01:13:55.560
It's also published by a mad Norwegian press and it's called

1659
01:13:55.560 --> 01:13:56.699
running through corridors.

1660
01:13:56.760 --> 01:14:01.140
And it is really, really spectacular.

1661
01:14:01.199 --> 01:14:06.239
It's Rob Shearman, who wrote Dalek and Toby Hadoke, who's famous

1662
01:14:06.239 --> 01:14:10.680
for stand-up comedy about life as a Doctor Who fan and is on a

1663
01:14:10.680 --> 01:14:14.939
100000000000 DVD extras at this point.

1664
01:14:15.000 --> 01:14:18.359
And just both of them seem like lovely people.

1665
01:14:18.420 --> 01:14:22.140
We had Rob Shearman out at that convention that Barbara Joss was

1666
01:14:22.140 --> 01:14:22.439
that actually.

1667
01:14:22.500 --> 01:14:24.359
So he did get to meet him and he is very nice.

1668
01:14:24.420 --> 01:14:27.899
Toby Hadoke's sort of public persona is that he's terrific as

1669
01:14:27.899 --> 01:14:28.140
well.

1670
01:14:28.199 --> 01:14:31.319
And the idea is that they're, they go through a year.

1671
01:14:32.579 --> 01:14:34.739
And they're watching all of 60s Doctor Who.

1672
01:14:34.859 --> 01:14:40.199
They threaten to put out a 70s and 80s volume, but there's no sign

1673
01:14:40.199 --> 01:14:40.859
of them so far.

1674
01:14:40.920 --> 01:14:43.199
So it's 60s Doctor Who. the stuff that we're talking about.

1675
01:14:43.260 --> 01:14:47.340
And each day they watch 2 episodes and then they write to each

1676
01:14:47.340 --> 01:14:51.659
other about them and their aim is to be really positive about

1677
01:14:51.659 --> 01:14:54.300
every episode and that doesn't mean that they overlook the floors

1678
01:14:54.300 --> 01:14:56.159
or their polyannarish or anything like that.

1679
01:14:56.220 --> 01:14:59.819
But it's a really, really fun read.

1680
01:14:59.880 --> 01:15:03.539
And, you know, they're actual television professionals, so they

1681
01:15:03.539 --> 01:15:07.020
have some idea what they're talking about, unlike, you know, some

1682
01:15:07.020 --> 01:15:08.579
podcasts.

1683
01:15:09.239 --> 01:15:12.060
And like I really recommend it.

1684
01:15:12.060 --> 01:15:15.899
And it is also available on Kindle, although other e-readers are

1685
01:15:15.899 --> 01:15:16.380
also available.

1686
01:15:17.039 --> 01:15:18.840
Well, for me?

1687
01:15:18.899 --> 01:15:21.479
Well, we mentioned David Whittaker last time in the passing of

1688
01:15:21.479 --> 01:15:24.659
David Whittaker from the production of something that I still feel

1689
01:15:24.659 --> 01:15:25.739
really sorely.

1690
01:15:25.800 --> 01:15:26.819
I think is terrific.

1691
01:15:27.060 --> 01:15:31.680
We mentioned his 2 target novels, novelisations.

1692
01:15:31.739 --> 01:15:35.520
But the loyal listener, Greg Miller, reminded me just today that

1693
01:15:35.520 --> 01:15:40.380
his other great work, maybe greatest of all of post-doctor Who, is

1694
01:15:40.380 --> 01:15:43.500
the TV 21 Dalek strip.

1695
01:15:43.560 --> 01:15:44.520
He wrote that.

1696
01:15:44.579 --> 01:15:49.859
So the whole original backstory, Golden Emperor, the weird and

1697
01:15:49.859 --> 01:15:52.979
Actually, look, it's complex.

1698
01:15:53.039 --> 01:15:54.119
It, brilliant, it's interesting.

1699
01:15:54.180 --> 01:15:55.079
It's in beautiful colour.

1700
01:15:55.140 --> 01:16:00.539
It was on the back page of the Jerry Anderson comic book that was

1701
01:16:00.539 --> 01:16:04.380
sold as if it were a newspaper, beautifully produced, really

1702
01:16:04.380 --> 01:16:07.260
graphic and gorgeous started in 1965.

1703
01:16:07.500 --> 01:16:11.159
Um, as I say, Whittaker had the back page.

1704
01:16:11.220 --> 01:16:13.500
It ran for about 104 issues.

1705
01:16:13.560 --> 01:16:15.180
It's been reprinted a couple of times.

1706
01:16:15.300 --> 01:16:16.920
I have seen PDFs on the net.

1707
01:16:16.979 --> 01:16:18.180
So it still is out there.

1708
01:16:18.239 --> 01:16:21.899
It's just got lovely stuff on, you'll see more of that when we get

1709
01:16:21.899 --> 01:16:25.260
to Dalek master plan of that backstory, but it's just really

1710
01:16:25.260 --> 01:16:27.840
nicely written, like everything David Rutaker does.

1711
01:16:27.899 --> 01:16:32.220
Oh, I mean, Whittaker does the 2 great trout and dialect stories

1712
01:16:32.220 --> 01:16:32.939
doesn't he?

1713
01:16:33.000 --> 01:16:33.659
Yes, please.

1714
01:16:33.720 --> 01:16:37.020
And he, I mean, he really creates the Daleks in a big way.

1715
01:16:37.079 --> 01:16:37.979
He understands them really well.

1716
01:16:38.039 --> 01:16:42.659
So this is very much a sideways and just as important part of the

1717
01:16:42.659 --> 01:16:44.279
Doctor Who Dalek universe.

1718
01:16:44.340 --> 01:16:45.479
It's all stupid.

1719
01:16:45.539 --> 01:16:50.340
Um, I'm just going to say now with the your 2 responses to the

1720
01:16:50.340 --> 01:16:53.159
Whitaker Travel stories, it's going to be interesting when we get

1721
01:16:53.159 --> 01:16:53.399
there.

1722
01:16:54.479 --> 01:16:56.640
With my opinion, let's see.

1723
01:16:56.640 --> 01:16:58.500
I was going to put that out there.

1724
01:16:58.560 --> 01:17:02.100
Okay, my recommendation is something that's been around for a

1725
01:17:02.100 --> 01:17:04.859
while, but I showed you guys recently and you hadn't seen it

1726
01:17:04.859 --> 01:17:05.100
before.

1727
01:17:05.159 --> 01:17:07.439
So we'll put it on the website as well.

1728
01:17:07.680 --> 01:17:09.960
It'll be in the show notes.

1729
01:17:09.960 --> 01:17:13.319
It'll be in the show notes. on the podcast app.

1730
01:17:13.380 --> 01:17:13.920
That's right.

1731
01:17:13.979 --> 01:17:15.180
Whatever podcast app you.

1732
01:17:15.180 --> 01:17:16.979
That'll be my show notes.

1733
01:17:18.119 --> 01:17:25.140
But when Milton Sabotsky acquired the rights to produce the 2

1734
01:17:25.140 --> 01:17:26.819
Dalek films that were made.

1735
01:17:26.939 --> 01:17:31.920
The documentation shows that he also require also acquired rights

1736
01:17:31.920 --> 01:17:34.140
to another Terry Nation script.

1737
01:17:34.199 --> 01:17:36.720
Yeah, and they were also looking at doing Marco Poland.

1738
01:17:36.779 --> 01:17:38.279
They were looking at doing Marco Polo.

1739
01:17:38.340 --> 01:17:41.819
Now, the 3rd terri nation script in the notes, I believe is

1740
01:17:41.819 --> 01:17:42.420
unnamed.

1741
01:17:42.479 --> 01:17:45.300
So a lot of people have assumed it was the chase.

1742
01:17:45.359 --> 01:17:49.079
There are other people who say that's unlikely because of how

1743
01:17:49.079 --> 01:17:51.720
quickly the Daleks was produced.

1744
01:17:51.779 --> 01:17:53.279
Because of marinus, wasn't it?

1745
01:17:53.340 --> 01:17:55.020
Apparently it was keys of marinus.

1746
01:17:55.079 --> 01:17:58.140
And hence they skipped keys of marinus to do Dalek Invasion

1747
01:17:58.140 --> 01:17:59.520
Universe because that had Dalek said.

1748
01:17:59.579 --> 01:18:04.859
However, a gentleman by the name of Andrew Alton has made a 4

1749
01:18:04.859 --> 01:18:11.460
minute trailer for what the 3rd Peter Cushing Doctor Who film

1750
01:18:11.460 --> 01:18:14.159
could have been called Daleks versus Mecons.

1751
01:18:16.319 --> 01:18:18.899
It's very, it's very well made.

1752
01:18:18.960 --> 01:18:23.579
So, in Eastman colour, that lovely irrogated faded red that you

1753
01:18:23.579 --> 01:18:26.159
get from every eastern print you look at now.

1754
01:18:26.279 --> 01:18:29.699
So it's a combination of clips from the 2 existing Cushing films

1755
01:18:29.699 --> 01:18:35.880
new animation, and also casts Jim Dale as the male supporting

1756
01:18:35.880 --> 01:18:40.319
leader, Angela Douglas, as the female lead, and still features

1757
01:18:40.319 --> 01:18:44.340
Peter Cushing and Roberta Toby, and some other surprise actors as

1758
01:18:44.340 --> 01:18:47.340
well, who I won't mention because when I showed it to Richard and

1759
01:18:47.340 --> 01:18:49.920
Nathan and they saw those actors, they just roared with laughter.

1760
01:18:50.220 --> 01:18:53.640
But yeah, it only takes 4 minutes out of your day.

1761
01:18:53.699 --> 01:18:56.279
So if you, hey, if you've already listened this far.

1762
01:18:56.579 --> 01:19:00.720
You've got plenty of time you can do with another 4 minutes of

1763
01:19:00.720 --> 01:19:01.260
Doctor Who.

1764
01:19:01.319 --> 01:19:05.220
Now, before we close for the date, we did have a little bit of

1765
01:19:05.220 --> 01:19:08.340
consternation when we were assigning stories for this podcast, not

1766
01:19:08.340 --> 01:19:11.760
everyone got what they wanted in terms of stories to discuss.

1767
01:19:11.819 --> 01:19:18.960
And so Richard came up with an idea, which was to use the website

1768
01:19:18.960 --> 01:19:24.659
that Nathan runs called the randomiser, which chooses Randomiser

1769
01:19:22.979 --> 01:19:27.960
net, which chooses a random Doctor Who story for you to watch.

1770
01:19:28.020 --> 01:19:31.619
Richard came up with the concept to use that to decide which

1771
01:19:31.619 --> 01:19:33.659
stories we're going to look at each season.

1772
01:19:33.720 --> 01:19:37.260
So following Richard's suggestion, I have actually used the

1773
01:19:37.260 --> 01:19:39.960
randomiser to decide which stories we're going to be doing next

1774
01:19:39.960 --> 01:19:40.260
season.

1775
01:19:40.319 --> 01:19:43.020
Nathan, your stories.

1776
01:19:43.079 --> 01:19:45.119
Should you choose to accept them or not?

1777
01:19:45.180 --> 01:19:47.100
And I really don't care whether you choose to accept them because

1778
01:19:47.100 --> 01:19:51.239
you've got them now, you have got the myth makers. the

1779
01:19:51.239 --> 01:19:52.020
gunfighters.

1780
01:19:52.500 --> 01:19:54.420
Well, hooray and the savages.

1781
01:19:54.479 --> 01:19:55.739
Which is really good.

1782
01:19:55.800 --> 01:19:57.359
And 3 for three.

1783
01:19:57.479 --> 01:20:00.659
Richard, meanwhile, you have the massacre.

1784
01:20:00.720 --> 01:20:02.819
Good, because I begged for that.

1785
01:20:02.880 --> 01:20:05.279
The celestial toy maker.

1786
01:20:06.779 --> 01:20:09.180
Am I ecopathy?

1787
01:20:09.239 --> 01:20:12.000
Oh, so trooping in expectation.

1788
01:20:12.060 --> 01:20:13.500
And the war machines.

1789
01:20:13.560 --> 01:20:14.699
Oh, goody.

1790
01:20:14.939 --> 01:20:18.300
So that leaves me, Galaxy 4.

1791
01:20:18.539 --> 01:20:19.500
Hooray.

1792
01:20:19.500 --> 01:20:20.819
Mission to the unknown.

1793
01:20:20.819 --> 01:20:23.279
And the Ark.

1794
01:20:23.340 --> 01:20:27.720
Now, eagle eared listeners, the Eagles have good hearing?

1795
01:20:27.779 --> 01:20:28.920
I don't know.

1796
01:20:28.979 --> 01:20:29.699
Yeah, they must do.

1797
01:20:30.119 --> 01:20:32.939
Eagle Ed listeners will notice I didn't mention the Dalek master

1798
01:20:32.939 --> 01:20:33.479
plan.

1799
01:20:33.539 --> 01:20:37.500
We decided that occasionally a story is sort of so big or so

1800
01:20:37.500 --> 01:20:41.520
iconic that it's not really fair to give it to one person to lead

1801
01:20:41.520 --> 01:20:42.479
the discussion on.

1802
01:20:42.539 --> 01:20:45.659
So the Dalek Master plan will be discussed by all of us.

1803
01:20:45.960 --> 01:20:49.319
I just plan to interrupt whoever. you know what I mean?

1804
01:20:49.380 --> 01:20:51.119
Yeah, say what I'm going to say.

1805
01:20:51.180 --> 01:20:53.699
I know you're gonna...

1806
01:20:54.420 --> 01:20:56.640
So yeah, we're going to be using the randomiser each month to

1807
01:20:56.640 --> 01:20:58.079
decide who's doing what story?

1808
01:20:58.140 --> 01:21:03.720
With one caveat in that Richard did also say that if we have an

1809
01:21:03.720 --> 01:21:06.359
absolute all-time favourite Doctor Who story. probably appropriate

1810
01:21:06.359 --> 01:21:06.960
for us to lead that.

1811
01:21:07.020 --> 01:21:08.520
So that's why Richard's doing the massacre.

1812
01:21:08.579 --> 01:21:11.579
There's a particular story I will be doing later during...

1813
01:21:11.579 --> 01:21:15.600
There's a particular story I will be doing later during the Tom

1814
01:21:15.600 --> 01:21:18.539
Baker era, which is my all-time favourite, and Nathan is yet to

1815
01:21:18.539 --> 01:21:19.920
decide. really have a favourite.

1816
01:21:20.039 --> 01:21:21.060
They're terrible.

1817
01:21:21.119 --> 01:21:22.319
What the hell is this show?

1818
01:21:25.380 --> 01:21:29.220
What are you young people doing outside my podcast?

1819
01:21:29.340 --> 01:21:32.220
Right, so...

1820
01:21:35.279 --> 01:21:37.439
That is it.

1821
01:21:37.500 --> 01:21:38.939
That's Doctor Who series two.

1822
01:21:39.000 --> 01:21:42.000
It only took us 15 hours to record.

1823
01:21:42.060 --> 01:21:46.439
For those of you at home, our recording apparatus currently

1824
01:21:46.439 --> 01:21:49.979
registers that we've been talking for 3 hours and 49 minutes.

1825
01:21:50.039 --> 01:21:55.020
So as it is, we're going to head off and grab a bite to eat.

1826
01:21:55.319 --> 01:21:58.020
So I'm going to sign off.

1827
01:21:58.079 --> 01:21:59.279
This is chugging in the corner.

1828
01:21:59.340 --> 01:22:02.939
I'm going to sign off and say good night.

1829
01:22:03.060 --> 01:22:05.399
Flight through entirety is.

1830
01:22:05.460 --> 01:22:06.720
We need to come up with another thing.

1831
01:22:06.779 --> 01:22:09.899
Flighters, flyers, flyers, flighty listeners.

1832
01:22:09.960 --> 01:22:10.979
Eternists.

1833
01:22:10.979 --> 01:22:11.939
Eternists.

1834
01:22:12.000 --> 01:22:12.960
No, that's eternity.

1835
01:22:13.020 --> 01:22:15.659
We didn't even mention that anyway, forget it.

1836
01:22:15.720 --> 01:22:16.800
Goodbye, everyone.

1837
01:22:17.159 --> 01:22:19.319
Thank you for your patience.

1838
01:22:19.380 --> 01:22:20.640
Talk to you next time.

1839
01:22:20.699 --> 01:22:24.720
If anybody has a name suggestion for what to call ourselves, write

1840
01:22:24.720 --> 01:22:27.119
it on the back of a postcard or just write it on our website.

1841
01:22:27.180 --> 01:22:27.899
Goodbye.

1842
01:22:27.960 --> 01:22:28.920
We'll see it.

1843
01:22:35.039 --> 01:22:38.399
You have been listening to Flight Through Entirety with Robot

1844
01:22:38.399 --> 01:22:41.460
Nathan Botomley, Robot Brendan Jones and Robot Richard Stone.

1845
01:22:41.520 --> 01:22:44.819
This episode, she's Madame Mao, was recorded on Sunday, July the

1846
01:22:44.819 --> 01:22:45.300
6th.

1847
01:22:45.359 --> 01:22:47.939
The next episode will be released on August 24th.

1848
01:22:48.000 --> 01:22:51.239
You can find us online at flightthroughentirety.com, flight

1849
01:22:51.239 --> 01:22:54.659
through entirety on Facebook and iTunes or no success, paramount

1850
01:22:54.659 --> 01:22:55.140
success.

1851
01:22:55.199 --> 01:22:58.619
I am completely indistinguishable from the original.

1852
01:23:01.739 --> 01:23:02.760
Uh, so...

1853
01:23:02.760 --> 01:23:05.760
Um, so we've got this idea.

1854
01:23:05.819 --> 01:23:07.739
Sorry, I'm just gonna wait for the siren to go.

1855
01:23:13.800 --> 01:23:15.239
Because it will it will pick up on that.

1856
01:23:15.300 --> 01:23:16.199
Yeah, no, I know.

1857
01:23:16.260 --> 01:23:17.220
We had sirens on it before.

1858
01:23:27.600 --> 01:23:28.199
Success.

1859
01:23:28.260 --> 01:23:29.760
Paramount success.

1860
01:23:29.819 --> 01:23:33.300
I'm completely indistinguishable from the original.