WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:20:19 1 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:33.659 Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety. 2 00:00:33.719 --> 00:00:38.520 The only Doctor Who podcast whose hosts are a result of the Hillbracken cloning technique. 3 00:00:38.579 --> 00:00:39.240 I'm Brendan. 4 00:00:39.299 --> 00:00:40.079 I'm Nathan. 5 00:00:40.140 --> 00:00:42.119 I'm a lovely prawn bisque for this. 6 00:00:42.840 --> 00:00:45.299 And food with you, isn't it? 7 00:00:45.359 --> 00:00:51.299 And we're headed deep into the asteroid belt, breaking out like a plague of locusts for the invisible enemy. 8 00:00:55.500 --> 00:00:58.799 Richard, you've been saddled with this prawn. 9 00:00:58.859 --> 00:01:00.960 Mmm, yum, yum. 10 00:01:01.020 --> 00:01:03.060 So where do we start off with this one? 11 00:01:03.179 --> 00:01:04.260 Oh, I'm very excited. 12 00:01:04.319 --> 00:01:05.459 The fish people are back. 13 00:01:05.519 --> 00:01:06.719 We've got the underwater menace. 14 00:01:06.780 --> 00:01:08.040 We've refound the episode. 15 00:01:08.099 --> 00:01:09.540 They're wearing exactly the same makeup. 16 00:01:09.599 --> 00:01:11.519 Contact has been made. 17 00:01:11.640 --> 00:01:17.879 I left my dictionary at home, so I won't be able to spell check myself for this episode, but it turns out neither could any of the design people. 18 00:01:17.939 --> 00:01:20.760 Have you seen how they spell the signage on this story? 19 00:01:20.819 --> 00:01:22.439 It's worth watching. 20 00:01:23.579 --> 00:01:24.420 And yet... 21 00:01:24.480 --> 00:01:27.120 I like exit with eggs. with eggs in it. 22 00:01:27.180 --> 00:01:27.780 Yes, yes. 23 00:01:27.959 --> 00:01:31.140 It feels a bit red and stimpy, doesn't it? 24 00:01:31.200 --> 00:01:33.480 There's a lot of Frudian jokes underneath all of this. 25 00:01:33.540 --> 00:01:41.280 So is it a Shavian thing where we've where we've adopted phonetic spelling and... 26 00:01:41.340 --> 00:01:46.260 So far in the future that we can just direct and lighten film and script anything anyway we want to. 27 00:01:46.379 --> 00:01:52.260 The reason this story, I feel maybe not the most successful of all Doctor Who stories of all time? 28 00:01:52.319 --> 00:01:52.980 Yeah, possibly. 29 00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:57.120 We're assuming that, you know, the listeners has watched it. 30 00:01:57.180 --> 00:01:59.400 And if you haven't, oh, you don't need to. can just listen to us. 31 00:01:59.519 --> 00:02:01.200 A bit quicker. 32 00:02:01.260 --> 00:02:03.359 And we've got a higher budget, actually. 33 00:02:03.420 --> 00:02:08.099 You know, when I say that Doctor Who really works when it's trying to do other things. 34 00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:11.219 Well, this is where I'm proven disastrously wrong. 35 00:02:11.280 --> 00:02:16.199 Doctor Who works, I feel, when it does other literary or filmic tropes. 36 00:02:16.259 --> 00:02:16.919 Was that the word? 37 00:02:16.979 --> 00:02:18.479 I think that might be a word. 38 00:02:18.539 --> 00:02:19.319 Chin chin. 39 00:02:19.379 --> 00:02:26.219 But it doesn't work where it rips off other looks or other styles or tries to be another someone else's success. 40 00:02:26.280 --> 00:02:34.139 Now, Brendan, you were talking about the S word, I believe, this one and that would be George Lucas. 41 00:02:34.199 --> 00:02:34.740 Oh, okay. 42 00:02:34.740 --> 00:02:36.000 Star Wars. 43 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:37.020 Star Wars. 44 00:02:37.080 --> 00:02:39.360 But this story is filmed in April 77. 45 00:02:39.659 --> 00:02:49.319 So all the spaceship shots and the inclusion of a new companion, if you want to call him that, which we'll get to, um, you would feel is aping the success. 46 00:02:49.379 --> 00:02:49.919 It's not. 47 00:02:49.979 --> 00:02:53.639 It's actually nodding to Kubrick and to, of course, Jerry Anderson. 48 00:02:53.699 --> 00:02:55.919 Sylvia Atson with Space 1979. 49 00:02:56.099 --> 00:03:01.560 Star Wars was in production, so people were seeing pictures and whatnot. 50 00:03:01.620 --> 00:03:04.020 So certainly there may have been some influence there. 51 00:03:04.080 --> 00:03:06.539 But yes, it didn't come out for several months after December. 52 00:03:06.599 --> 00:03:17.819 It wasn't predicted to be the success that it was going to be, unless you were a complete fanboy and picking up copies of Starlog, which was the magazine to go to in the 70s that it wasn't in the popular imagination. 53 00:03:17.879 --> 00:03:24.300 So, and yet this thing has the biggest model effect, shooting time of the whole history of Doctor Who. 54 00:03:24.360 --> 00:03:26.280 It's spent more money on it. 55 00:03:26.280 --> 00:03:35.759 Apparently, since the space pirates will actually get an even bigger one with a story called Underworld later on in the season, which is just terrific for lots and lots of good reasons. 56 00:03:35.819 --> 00:03:37.080 I'm looking forward to that one. 57 00:03:37.139 --> 00:03:39.180 The model work is spectacular. 58 00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:39.900 Is it though? 59 00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:41.639 No, it's terrible. 60 00:03:41.699 --> 00:03:42.960 It's so bad. 61 00:03:43.020 --> 00:03:46.620 I love model work and as you can see around our lovely withdrawing room. 62 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:48.000 There are quite a few models here, but no. 63 00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:52.560 Look, I think it's no, it really doesn't work and it really should. 64 00:03:52.620 --> 00:04:02.699 And don't let Matt Irvin ever design anything because his spaceships look like toilet rolls with washing up bottles glued to the front of them. 65 00:04:02.759 --> 00:04:07.439 So the Titan base is just about acceptable, I think. 66 00:04:07.800 --> 00:04:09.900 The model is all right. 67 00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:13.680 The spaceships really look cheap and terrible. 68 00:04:13.740 --> 00:04:14.819 There's one scene. 69 00:04:15.419 --> 00:04:16.379 They're expensive models. 70 00:04:16.439 --> 00:04:18.180 The movement? 71 00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:30.240 There's one scene in episode one where the spaceship lands and it goes down this sort of cardboard corridor, which just looks like zen and bass, you know, with sort of very low property values. 72 00:04:30.300 --> 00:04:36.839 And then we get the we get the Bio Foundation, which is like a papier mache rock. 73 00:04:36.899 --> 00:04:39.300 And it comes with a landing pad. 74 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:41.879 It comes pre-crashed into. 75 00:04:41.939 --> 00:04:43.500 It comes pretty crashed into. 76 00:04:43.560 --> 00:04:45.540 Because the 1st shot. 77 00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:46.620 Yeah, that's right. 78 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:48.240 It's really terrible. 79 00:04:48.300 --> 00:04:52.500 And the spaceship hitting the bi our foundation thing in episode 2 is awful. 80 00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:55.800 I think the models are just universally terrible. 81 00:04:55.860 --> 00:05:04.259 And I have very few good things to say about underworld later in the season, but the models for underworld are better than they are here. 82 00:05:04.319 --> 00:05:05.819 This is true. 83 00:05:05.879 --> 00:05:13.259 I really like the Titan shuttle because, in my mind anyway, It's aping the look of the space shuttle. 84 00:05:13.680 --> 00:05:17.819 Which was a very, very new idea in 1977. 85 00:05:18.060 --> 00:05:19.259 I think it was... 86 00:05:19.259 --> 00:05:20.399 That's true. 87 00:05:20.459 --> 00:05:29.519 Oh, there was the Dino Saw, which had been actually around since the very early 70s and there's a test vehicle of that in the opening credits sold the $6000000 man. 88 00:05:29.579 --> 00:05:30.420 Oh, right. 89 00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:43.740 It looks like a fat space shuttle, the Titan shit, which when you think about the way design goes forward, 1st you come up with your basic technological vehicle design, then it actually gets bigger, but then it becomes more streamlined. 90 00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:46.319 So I certainly see what they were going for there. 91 00:05:46.379 --> 00:05:55.199 Yeah, I agree some of the model work isn't so good, especially the crash into the thing where they've obviously just put it on a piece of string and spun it on the string and thrown it towards the camera. 92 00:05:55.259 --> 00:05:56.160 Yeah, pretty much. 93 00:05:56.160 --> 00:06:09.120 But at the same time, it's very quick and you get that wonderful nose cone view where they put the camera on the front of the ship and you see the asteroid spinning as the ship rushes towards it. that's very effective. 94 00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:11.040 Blake 7, isn't it? 95 00:06:11.100 --> 00:06:15.720 Yes, but well, and Blake 7 was in its was in its early stages at this point. 96 00:06:15.779 --> 00:06:22.920 Chris Boucher's last script is about to appear because he's going to go off and rewrite Terry Nations notes on the backs of envelopes. 97 00:06:22.980 --> 00:06:24.660 And why we have no more David Maloney. 98 00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:25.199 Yeah. 99 00:06:25.259 --> 00:06:27.300 Have you ever heard of an artist called Roger Dean? 100 00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:30.779 Just passing an image to the fellow podcast casters. 101 00:06:30.899 --> 00:06:31.860 Oh, yeah. 102 00:06:31.860 --> 00:06:34.019 Dear listener, which... 103 00:06:34.079 --> 00:06:34.560 Yeah, yeah. 104 00:06:34.620 --> 00:06:36.360 And then that's something called lighthouse. 105 00:06:36.420 --> 00:06:37.560 But he did a lot of... 106 00:06:37.560 --> 00:06:38.759 Mouse House from Hitchhiking. 107 00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:41.279 Here's the most hikers, but those little square windows. 108 00:06:41.339 --> 00:06:43.319 It does look a lot like the Bayau Foundation. 109 00:06:43.379 --> 00:06:44.519 Yeah, so we'll stick that up there. 110 00:06:44.579 --> 00:06:52.980 You know, this was borrowing a lot from Prog Rock and there were some really interesting SF ideas around in the 70s. 70s were a good time to be reading SF. 111 00:06:53.040 --> 00:07:00.420 So this always felt kind of the 2D poor man's version of what was actually happening outside and Doctor Who shouldn't do that. 112 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:02.279 It should reference, but it shouldn't ape. 113 00:07:02.279 --> 00:07:04.379 So that's kind of my feeling of why it's not working. 114 00:07:04.439 --> 00:07:06.420 But the ideas behind this are really interesting. 115 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:07.860 We haven't got to the prawn yet. 116 00:07:07.920 --> 00:07:10.199 But the notion of a buy our foundation. 117 00:07:10.259 --> 00:07:14.639 Jared O'Neill was someone that was kind of contracted to NASA. 118 00:07:14.699 --> 00:07:18.959 The notions of asteroids as colossal arcologies. 119 00:07:19.019 --> 00:07:21.000 You were aware of that word arcology. 120 00:07:21.060 --> 00:07:23.459 It's like an enclosed community. 121 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:24.540 Exactly. 122 00:07:24.600 --> 00:07:27.660 It's giant things if you've ever watched Thunderbirds 2086. 123 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:41.100 Brendan, you'll recall that was actually Techno Voyager, the Japanese 80s show that ITC rebranded and broadcast as an animated Thunderbirds in the 80s. anyway, their big island base was called the Arcology. 124 00:07:41.160 --> 00:07:43.379 It was a big octahedron. 125 00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:46.139 The kind of thing that Todd floats around in when he calls questions out. 126 00:07:46.199 --> 00:07:52.379 Yeah, Palo Solari was the Italian architect who came up with a notion of that. 127 00:07:52.439 --> 00:08:01.800 And the idea was that it was a cities, cities that could be self-fulfilling and self-powered and have a whole Hermetic community, either on Earth or in space. 128 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:08.160 And they, you know, this was something that we were talking about and the concept for the next stage of mankind. 129 00:08:08.220 --> 00:08:12.660 We forget how venturesome, our thinking was in this time. 130 00:08:12.720 --> 00:08:19.560 There was a lot of optimism around, as well as also a lot of fear being preempted by Robert Ehrlich's book. 131 00:08:19.620 --> 00:08:28.439 Of course, we've talked about the population bomb and the films like Soylent Green, that were a few years before that talked about overpopulation, strangling mankind. 132 00:08:28.500 --> 00:08:29.220 We needed to move out. 133 00:08:29.220 --> 00:08:41.820 The asteroid belt were seen as a logical place because there'd be a lot of opportunities for mining there and even people believed that frozen, the ice in moons contained oxygen. 134 00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:43.799 All these ideas were going around anyway. 135 00:08:43.860 --> 00:08:50.039 So there's lots of really nice concepts behind this, but my goodness, you've got to trudge to find them, haven't you? 136 00:08:50.100 --> 00:08:52.620 Well, in fact, I think that there's, I think there's a problem. 137 00:08:52.679 --> 00:08:57.240 This is Bob Baker and Dave Martin, and as usual, have another drink listener, yeah. 138 00:08:57.299 --> 00:09:04.200 It's just full of ideas that they dredge up, play with the 10 minutes and then throw away. 139 00:09:04.259 --> 00:09:05.399 Do you know what I mean? 140 00:09:05.460 --> 00:09:09.480 And so the cloning is, you know, just a perfect example. 141 00:09:09.539 --> 00:09:17.460 Oh, I'm going to finish up with the cloning because the cloning is the massive thing for me on this story and why it works and maybe why it really colossally fails. 142 00:09:17.519 --> 00:09:18.419 But it's right. 143 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:30.179 Like you're saying, I don't think, I think reason Bob Baker and Dave Martha's stories work when they work is that they have a brilliant designer behind them to coalesce it all and make you feel as if you're actually in a prog rock album from the 70s. 144 00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:31.620 Look at Claws of Axos. 145 00:09:31.679 --> 00:09:36.120 It was beautiful at the time and I think it's still stunning to look at now and distracts you. 146 00:09:36.179 --> 00:09:38.759 You just get overwhelmed by the sensorialness of everything. 147 00:09:38.820 --> 00:09:42.059 But this one, maybe design isn't really up there on this story. 148 00:09:42.120 --> 00:09:46.559 So this is Barry Newbury as the designer and he's actually been really good. 149 00:09:46.620 --> 00:09:47.759 I think he's great. 150 00:09:47.820 --> 00:09:49.139 You really like it? 151 00:09:49.200 --> 00:09:55.620 Mask of Mandragara. you know, is terrific, but he can't overcome the budget restrictions for this one. 152 00:09:55.679 --> 00:09:57.240 And so the set is terrible. 153 00:09:57.299 --> 00:10:00.779 Is that why he's moved the TARDIS console room into the back of a butcher's fan? 154 00:10:00.840 --> 00:10:02.220 so tiny, isn't it? 155 00:10:02.279 --> 00:10:03.480 It's a butcher's man. 156 00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:04.559 It's white. 157 00:10:04.620 --> 00:10:08.460 It's cold, it's cramped, and there's a big old Liner pork hanging up there. 158 00:10:08.519 --> 00:10:09.240 I'm sorry, Tom. 159 00:10:10.559 --> 00:10:19.320 And yeah, of course, yeah, we no longer have the wooden console room because apparently it was warped in storage, but also visually the console wasn't interesting to look at. 160 00:10:19.379 --> 00:10:21.299 So the old console's been refurbished. 161 00:10:21.720 --> 00:10:27.600 It was actually, I mean, we've heard those stories and it's possibly true, but they could have just rebuilt a couple of flats. 162 00:10:27.659 --> 00:10:33.659 It was really that Graham Williams wanted to return to the gleaming white sensation of spaciness. 163 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:38.159 He wanted to go into space and he didn't want, and he didn't want to be identified with his cliff in any way. 164 00:10:38.220 --> 00:10:39.000 Which is understandable. 165 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:40.860 You know, you're a new person. 166 00:10:40.919 --> 00:10:44.940 I'm a certain way, but I quite like this console room as well. 167 00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:52.500 I prefer it when it's refined in the 80s and we get a bit more adornment on the walls. but I especially like Leila's reaction to it. 168 00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:56.580 Oh, God, I can't swing a mini skirt in here. 169 00:10:56.759 --> 00:10:58.740 A leather strap. 170 00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:00.840 We've never been in here. 171 00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:03.419 You've never been in here before. 172 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:09.779 So it is it is the console room that we're stuck with for the rest of the run of the original series, essentially. 173 00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:12.840 They'll replace the they replace the console itself. 174 00:11:12.899 --> 00:11:13.620 But... 175 00:11:14.279 --> 00:11:18.240 Well, I think when they eventually replace the console, the walls are also new. 176 00:11:18.299 --> 00:11:20.100 I think the scanner piece stays. 177 00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:22.440 So that scanner piece is refurbished. 178 00:11:22.620 --> 00:11:26.639 Yeah, the round also look the way they do for the rest of the run of the show and so on. 179 00:11:26.700 --> 00:11:35.220 I think Titan-based, there's an attempt to make it sort of Ken Adamish by having some exposed rock and at ceilings and stuff. 180 00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:36.960 But it, it's not very good. 181 00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:49.259 And, and, and the bio foundation, like a lot of plain white walls, which are less boring than I remember because there's an, you know, again, an attempt to put columns and things in there, but he's just got no money and he can't hide that. 182 00:11:49.320 --> 00:11:52.320 And so the design looks terrible. 183 00:11:52.379 --> 00:11:58.440 Yeah, I think the Bio Foundation, it's too neat and it's too pristine. 184 00:11:58.500 --> 00:12:00.600 It's just, yeah, just. boring. 185 00:12:00.659 --> 00:12:01.740 Yeah, it's really cool. 186 00:12:01.799 --> 00:12:13.500 And that's why Doctor Who always relies on the magnetic quality of its supporting cast to draw those disparate elements together and make a cohesive whole. 187 00:12:13.500 --> 00:12:15.299 And then we end up with this story. 188 00:12:15.539 --> 00:12:18.779 Are there any actors in this at all that really shine for you? 189 00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:19.980 No, none of them. 190 00:12:20.100 --> 00:12:22.559 Michael Sheard, do you know? 191 00:12:22.620 --> 00:12:27.899 Who is terrible, although he's really enjoying himself as a villain in episode three. 192 00:12:28.019 --> 00:12:29.940 He lifts it a little bit. 193 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:40.500 You've got Frederick Jeager, who was Jano in the savages and who was Sorenson, who's really good, who's a proper actor, and here he just puts on a stupid accent and larks about. 194 00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:41.039 He terrible. 195 00:12:41.100 --> 00:12:44.519 This is a theme of the Williams... 196 00:12:44.580 --> 00:12:45.000 Yeah, yeah. 197 00:12:45.059 --> 00:12:52.559 It's a theme of the Williams era where people think it's supposed to be funny or for children or whatever and they do silly voices and they ruin it. 198 00:12:52.620 --> 00:12:56.100 Spoiler alert will get more of that in nightmare of Eden. 199 00:12:56.159 --> 00:12:57.960 So he's terrible. 200 00:12:58.019 --> 00:13:00.419 You know, there's really no one else. 201 00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:07.019 There's those terrible people on Titan base who are being relieved who are kind of swiftly massacred. 202 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:07.799 So to speak. 203 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:09.059 And remember, they're having a Titan. 204 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:10.200 You're welcome to it. 205 00:13:10.860 --> 00:13:17.820 They're having the world's most listless and desultory party, you know, in the history of the solar system. 206 00:13:17.879 --> 00:13:20.399 But they say, come in, get your gear off. 207 00:13:20.460 --> 00:13:21.240 Do you remember? 208 00:13:21.299 --> 00:13:22.320 It's like... 209 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:24.779 They're a swinging... 210 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:25.679 Well, you know what? 211 00:13:25.740 --> 00:13:29.039 It's the 51st century and they're 51st century guys. 212 00:13:29.100 --> 00:13:29.820 Thank you. 213 00:13:29.879 --> 00:13:30.779 You're talking about Jack. 214 00:13:30.899 --> 00:13:33.240 They've gotten bored with each other, you see. 215 00:13:33.299 --> 00:13:34.799 Do you really reckon? 216 00:13:34.860 --> 00:13:38.340 I think they've actually all had horrible exposure to Zigma radiation. 217 00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:40.740 And they've all gone horribly wrong. 218 00:13:40.799 --> 00:13:42.179 What did the doctor say about it? 219 00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:43.860 It's humanity? 220 00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:44.700 Blind alley. 221 00:13:44.759 --> 00:13:49.500 Yeah, humanity ends up its own scientific fundament of the 51st century and this story proves that. 222 00:13:49.620 --> 00:13:51.419 Yeah, so the guest cast are terrible. 223 00:13:51.480 --> 00:13:52.860 It's directed. 224 00:13:52.860 --> 00:13:54.720 It's directed by... 225 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:56.879 It's very rushed directing, it feels... 226 00:13:56.940 --> 00:13:57.840 Derek Flatt. 227 00:13:57.899 --> 00:14:01.080 Derek Goodwin, who never worked before or again on the program. 228 00:14:01.139 --> 00:14:05.039 But did do a behind the scenes guy, and then he moved into this one. 229 00:14:05.100 --> 00:14:08.039 He points his wife as the receptionist nurse. 230 00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:09.120 Yeah, yeah, no. 231 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:13.019 He's most famous for directing a bunch of episodes of on the buses. 232 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:14.039 Do you know what I mean? 233 00:14:14.159 --> 00:14:20.279 Like he's not... wouldn't Blakey have been great as the Michael Shoot character? 234 00:14:20.340 --> 00:14:21.960 Yeah, so he's terrible. 235 00:14:22.019 --> 00:14:24.899 Everything's directed really flatly and uninterestingly. 236 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:28.200 You want to hear something interesting about Derek Goodwin. 237 00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:30.480 He had a third nipple. 238 00:14:30.539 --> 00:14:32.460 I'm sorry, I've clicked on the wrong name. 239 00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:38.700 I was going to say, every story he's worked, Tom, was by Bob Baker and Dave Martin, and then I realised I was looking at the Wikipedia entry for Dave Martin. 240 00:14:38.820 --> 00:14:43.740 I have a lot to say about the actual underlying point of this story. 241 00:14:43.799 --> 00:14:45.120 Should we get to canine? 242 00:14:45.179 --> 00:14:51.240 Or are we still on, or are we still on Paul Leela, who's commented on us being a bit of a mongrel in this? 243 00:14:51.299 --> 00:14:53.039 Well, she's she's terrible. 244 00:14:53.100 --> 00:14:54.419 And again, is she? 245 00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:55.080 Yeah, yeah. 246 00:14:55.139 --> 00:14:56.700 So, Leila varies. 247 00:14:56.759 --> 00:15:03.899 Like I'm not saying the acting is terrible, but both her and Tom seem to be phoning it in a bit this week. 248 00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:07.080 She's suffering a bit of the granddaughter complex in this one. 249 00:15:07.139 --> 00:15:10.139 Have you know, she's displaying Susan, like, powers. 250 00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:17.460 She is able to sense the virus, even from within the TARDIS, and she seems to be time sensitive too about recognition of... 251 00:15:17.519 --> 00:15:18.720 She can pilot the TARDIS. 252 00:15:18.779 --> 00:15:20.639 Yeah, what's that? 253 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:28.559 I think they've thought they're writing for Carol Anne Ford, which is probably why you're saying the character goes nowhere and she's ill served throughout the story. 254 00:15:28.620 --> 00:15:30.779 She gets very little to do. 255 00:15:30.779 --> 00:15:32.519 And she's stupid. 256 00:15:32.580 --> 00:15:33.840 And in fact, the doctor... 257 00:15:33.960 --> 00:15:36.360 Yeah, and this is what I don't like about how, thank you for bringing that up. 258 00:15:36.419 --> 00:15:39.000 This is what I don't like how Williams has taken. 259 00:15:39.059 --> 00:15:45.480 He seems to be kind of not so much as Tom, but there's a similar resentfulness to both of them as, you don't agree? 260 00:15:45.659 --> 00:15:50.580 I don't think he I don't think he likes having other people's characters in his show. 261 00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:55.080 No, later on in the season, she's really good and it really depends on who the writer is. 262 00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:59.519 So if it's homes or voucher, she's great. 263 00:15:59.580 --> 00:16:01.440 In this, she's an idiot. 264 00:16:01.559 --> 00:16:06.960 And in fact, Tom... an idiot too often this season, though, compared to how she how she was served. 265 00:16:07.019 --> 00:16:14.519 I mean, Tom theorises that the reason that she's immune to the virus is that she's not very bright, essentially. 266 00:16:14.580 --> 00:16:19.500 Well, the thing is, the line the doctor has given is that Leila is all intuition. 267 00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:21.960 He doesn't speculate as to her intelligence. 268 00:16:22.019 --> 00:16:27.299 He just kind of says, you know, whereas you or I would sit down and try and figure out the scientific formula. 269 00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:29.460 Leila functions on whether she likes it or not. 270 00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:31.200 Her feet, her feeling. 271 00:16:31.259 --> 00:16:37.200 And the doctor's interpretation of that seems very respectful of the fact that Leila is very different to him. 272 00:16:37.259 --> 00:16:42.120 It's Marius and then everyone else afterwards who says, oh, perhaps it's a matter of intelligence. 273 00:16:42.179 --> 00:16:48.539 And I think that was meant to be a very clever gag, but no one's told Tom that it's meant to be a gag. 274 00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:54.240 So he just plays the line as normal and it adds Bob Baker and Dave Martin again not picking up on something later on. 275 00:16:54.299 --> 00:16:56.759 In fact, that's not the reason, is it? 276 00:16:56.820 --> 00:17:02.460 It's her antibodies come from her ancestors. 277 00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:06.960 Come from her ancestors, but she gives them to her ancestors. 278 00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:12.299 And again, it's a really interesting time paradox concept that isn't really commented on. 279 00:17:12.420 --> 00:17:16.440 So much isn't commented on, though, in this one. much of it should be wonderful. 280 00:17:16.500 --> 00:17:18.180 It just really needs a bit of bob. 281 00:17:18.180 --> 00:17:19.859 I'm into it, don't you? 282 00:17:19.980 --> 00:17:21.059 And he was still working on it. 283 00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:22.740 Well, don't you feel it? 284 00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:25.799 Yes, I can't really tell him here at all. 285 00:17:25.859 --> 00:17:28.140 Should we get to the cloning or are we still going? 286 00:17:28.140 --> 00:17:29.039 No, we're talking about the cloning. 287 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:30.180 Lovely canine. 288 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:32.339 Yeah, let's go on canine first. 289 00:17:32.460 --> 00:17:35.220 Okay, so April 77, it was being filmed. 290 00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:39.240 Yeah, I know we've all said it a 100 times before, but, you know, Star Wars wasn't out. 291 00:17:39.299 --> 00:17:43.019 He wasn't based on R2D2. 292 00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:44.640 No, but there were all... 293 00:17:44.700 --> 00:17:46.799 Was it based on Muffet from Battle Circle accidentally? 294 00:17:46.859 --> 00:17:47.819 No, that's 2 years later. 295 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:49.440 No, it was a one year later. 296 00:17:49.500 --> 00:17:55.680 No, it's, there were the sci-fi robots in um, in silent running with Bruce Stern. 297 00:17:55.740 --> 00:17:59.220 There have been kids, Q robots in SF. 298 00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:04.079 Look, I like the idea that he was only going to be in it for one episode. for one story. 299 00:18:04.140 --> 00:18:12.000 And I really liked the idea of the Dobeman Pincer, Wizard of Oz outfit that they... actually originally designed. 300 00:18:12.059 --> 00:18:13.980 I'd love to see a picture of that. 301 00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:15.660 What they were going to dress a dog up as a robot. 302 00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:18.480 John Leeson was going to actually be in the costume. 303 00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:22.859 And, you know, he was doing the rehearsal on set and doing the Times Cross with Tom. 304 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:28.319 I think we've talked before about how Moffat from Battlestar Galactica was a chimp in a dog costume. 305 00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:30.420 It was sometimes. 306 00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:31.980 Yeah, sometimes it was awesome. 307 00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:35.160 That's a very unkind thing to say about John Lee. 308 00:18:35.339 --> 00:18:38.700 And again, that comes 78, 79. 309 00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:42.059 So, yeah, it's, I don't know what to say about Kane. 310 00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:43.259 I actually loved him as a boy. 311 00:18:43.319 --> 00:18:48.960 I think he does too much and rescues the currier, but I like that he's Aurak light. 312 00:18:49.019 --> 00:18:51.240 I like that he's irascible and cranky. 313 00:18:51.299 --> 00:18:56.819 He becomes much more like that next in 2 years time, doesn't he, when they can't get John Leeson back. 314 00:18:56.880 --> 00:19:01.559 But his motor is really distractingly loud, really loud. 315 00:19:01.619 --> 00:19:04.559 It's not a great prop, is it, in retrospect? 316 00:19:04.619 --> 00:19:05.160 No. 317 00:19:05.220 --> 00:19:08.759 Well, you know that what his idea was to not have the bloke in it. 318 00:19:08.819 --> 00:19:09.839 It was John Nathan Turnham. 319 00:19:09.900 --> 00:19:10.380 Oh, right. 320 00:19:10.380 --> 00:19:11.700 And he came to regret it later. 321 00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:15.119 He said, no, no, we can spend more money on this and keep it as an ongoing thing. 322 00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:17.640 And then, of course, he had no money for stories later on. 323 00:19:17.700 --> 00:19:18.059 Yeah. 324 00:19:18.059 --> 00:19:24.660 Matt Ovine says that part of the problem was when he and I think it was Ian Scones were given the design brief. 325 00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:27.900 It's like, look, we only need this to work for 4 weeks, it can fall apart after that. 326 00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:30.240 And he has said since several times. 327 00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:36.480 If we had have known then that they were considering keeping it on, we would have constructed it very differently. 328 00:19:36.539 --> 00:19:47.460 We would have spent more money because we could argue that a bit would come out of the budget for this story and the next and the next and the next because, of course, canine was very expensive to produce and it all came out of the invisible enemy budget. 329 00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:50.519 But the budget runs out partly for that. 330 00:19:50.579 --> 00:19:58.740 I mean, don't they keep it to amortise the cost over the remaining stories of the season and then they have to rebuild the prop again anyway for the following year. 331 00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:01.079 Well, they had to rebuild it slightly for the sun makers. 332 00:20:01.140 --> 00:20:01.920 Right, yeah. 333 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:07.680 Because he started as normal dogs with lamp posts, canine with cameras. 334 00:20:07.740 --> 00:20:10.319 Yeah, yeah, he used to run into the didn't he? 335 00:20:10.380 --> 00:20:12.480 And there is footage of that on the DVD. 336 00:20:12.539 --> 00:20:22.619 Oh, I'm going haywire, running off screen, and you just see the sort of back end of him and he runs into something and you hear a cameraman go, ah. 337 00:20:23.220 --> 00:20:28.079 Like, I think John Leeson is terrific and I think K9 is great. 338 00:20:28.140 --> 00:20:31.200 And you know, it just makes me happy. 339 00:20:31.259 --> 00:20:32.940 Now we're in the canine thing. 340 00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:38.819 I've watched all the way through season 15 now, of course. and I love him in it and I love Leila with him. 341 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:41.519 They have an immediate rapport, aren't they? 342 00:20:41.579 --> 00:20:42.359 They really do. 343 00:20:42.420 --> 00:20:52.559 And you'll notice that canine goes into the TARDIS with Leila and an invasion of time coming up, not to spoil it, but he seems to still be Leila's dog, not the dog. 344 00:20:52.619 --> 00:20:53.819 Yeah, yeah, he's not the doctor's dog. 345 00:20:53.940 --> 00:20:54.420 Absolutely. 346 00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:55.559 Canine Mark one. 347 00:20:55.619 --> 00:20:56.400 It not the doctor's dog. 348 00:20:56.519 --> 00:20:59.759 And that's why he, spoiler alert, builds another one. right. 349 00:20:59.819 --> 00:21:03.539 Yes, he doesn't really seem to like the doctor anymore than the last one. 350 00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:05.400 That's not a bad thing. 351 00:21:05.460 --> 00:21:07.619 I think that's why canine really works for me. 352 00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:13.019 You need a foil to the doctors, I'm going to say, to Tom's arrogance, to the doctor's arrogance. 353 00:21:13.079 --> 00:21:22.380 Yeah, Leila can oppose him in the, you know, for humanity and for morality, but you need someone to approach him on intellect. 354 00:21:22.380 --> 00:21:30.299 And I think that's where my doctor, Tom was my doctor, falls down in the season that his irascibility is overweening. 355 00:21:30.420 --> 00:21:38.160 It actually goes further than it needs to and kind of, there's contradiction with the, with the intention of the part. 356 00:21:38.220 --> 00:21:41.099 And I don't know that we actually end up disliking the doctor. 357 00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:43.019 I don't think I've ever gone that far. 358 00:21:43.079 --> 00:21:49.859 But, um, and, you know, you might argue that that irascibility is exactly what propelled the writing of the 6th doctor. 359 00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:52.200 People thought that that would be refreshing. 360 00:21:52.259 --> 00:21:54.480 But I don't know, how do you feel about it? 361 00:21:54.599 --> 00:22:01.799 Like we talked last week about how Tom being annoyed actually helped the performance in Horror of Fang Rock. 362 00:22:01.859 --> 00:22:03.960 Here, I think he's just phoning it in. 363 00:22:04.019 --> 00:22:05.460 I just don't think he's bothering. 364 00:22:05.579 --> 00:22:10.079 And I think both him and Louise. are not doing their best work. 365 00:22:10.500 --> 00:22:14.279 Tom also gets to spend a lot of time unconscious as well. 366 00:22:14.339 --> 00:22:15.180 Do you know what I mean? 367 00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:16.500 Wrong me about his own head. 368 00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:17.700 Yeah. 369 00:22:17.700 --> 00:22:19.859 Should we talk about the cloning? 370 00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:20.759 Science Subway. 371 00:22:20.819 --> 00:22:23.460 I love to talk about the cloning because this, for me, is why it didn't work. 372 00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:29.940 And even as a boy, I thought, hang on, they're saying 3922, was it the Kilbracken technique that we've developed cloning? 373 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:31.740 Oh, they only last 10 minutes. 374 00:22:31.799 --> 00:22:36.059 How you could spawn a whole battle army in 10 minutes. 375 00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:38.339 He says, oh, you know, it's a sideshow. 376 00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:41.940 There's no use for medical, you know, we don't use in medic- medical treatments. 377 00:22:41.940 --> 00:22:49.380 Yet, you've got an enormous phone box there, which seems to the only reason is that you can reduce people down, put them into a room. 378 00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:53.519 Oh, no, the reducing people down is because the doctors are being out of the TARDS. 379 00:22:53.640 --> 00:22:57.059 TARDIS, you think, OK. So the cloning couldn't have been used for that, but there must have been... 380 00:22:57.059 --> 00:23:02.460 So, come on, it's ridiculous to say this is, this is, I definitely think it's sigma energy. 381 00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:04.500 They've all been crazy. 382 00:23:04.500 --> 00:23:06.480 All the sherbet sticks and sigma energy, yeah. 383 00:23:06.539 --> 00:23:08.819 So we're doing fantastic voyage, aren't we, essentially? 384 00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:16.380 And we're doing it 100 years before the broadcast of Into the Dalek from season eight, which did it very, very well. 385 00:23:16.440 --> 00:23:18.180 You did, actually. 386 00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:20.279 But this is not very good. 387 00:23:20.339 --> 00:23:25.920 And so it is one of those things where we're just throwing up yet another idea in abandoning it. 388 00:23:25.980 --> 00:23:33.299 It's mostly confined to episode three and they only last 10 minutes, but they do seem to last the entirety of episode three. 389 00:23:33.420 --> 00:23:34.619 You know what? 390 00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:38.700 The last time I watched it, I timed it? 391 00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:41.160 I timed how long the clones were on screen. 392 00:23:41.220 --> 00:23:43.200 Wow, you don't get out very much. 393 00:23:43.319 --> 00:23:45.059 I don't. 394 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:48.539 But I timed how long they were on screen and it does tally. 395 00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:54.240 If we take it that the clone scenes are happening at the same time as the real world scenes either side of them. 396 00:23:54.299 --> 00:23:56.519 The timeline actually tallies. 397 00:23:56.579 --> 00:23:58.079 Timelines are my thing as we know. 398 00:23:58.140 --> 00:24:00.779 Well, I just thought it was, it was an attempt. 399 00:24:00.839 --> 00:24:08.400 You know, it's what Chris Chibnell does in Hungary Earth, where he just adds a bunch of countdowns in order to ramp up the 1010s. 400 00:24:08.460 --> 00:24:10.680 He said after he sang the theme to Casino Royale. 401 00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:11.519 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 402 00:24:11.579 --> 00:24:12.779 He was great in that too. 403 00:24:12.839 --> 00:24:13.799 Just terrific. 404 00:24:13.859 --> 00:24:19.259 There are some magical moments in the cloned sequences. 405 00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:28.799 The doctor and Leila yomping around the doctor's brain as silly as it is, Tom and Louise are obviously having a lot of fun and their humour and interplay with that is great. 406 00:24:28.859 --> 00:24:31.259 And we get 10 it's terrific fun, yeah. 407 00:24:31.319 --> 00:24:43.259 And we get that beautiful moment where, which is why, I think, at this point, they had definitely settled their differences, when they cross the mind brain interface and stare off into the void and they get the wind machine and Lilo says, where are we going, doctor? 408 00:24:43.319 --> 00:24:46.319 into the land of dreams and fantasies, Leila. 409 00:24:46.380 --> 00:24:48.480 And for me, that's the byline of the whole season. 410 00:24:48.539 --> 00:24:52.980 It would have been so great to take that somewhere as well. 411 00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:56.339 You know, like the going about the brain isn't naturalistic at all. 412 00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:57.119 Do you know what I mean? 413 00:24:57.180 --> 00:24:59.579 Like they're not crawling through arteries or anything like that. 414 00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:01.619 Yeah, yeah, yeah. and it's funny. 415 00:25:01.619 --> 00:25:06.779 I can even breathe I mean, maybe clones don't need to breathe, but, you know, there's no way they could at that score. 416 00:25:06.839 --> 00:25:08.579 There's all these other things that just make no sense. 417 00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:16.859 No, but it's Doctor Who, we don't care. exactly Well, the only way you can is that it's an alternate reality in some way or that is more of the Lewis Carroll through the rabbit hole. 418 00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:23.460 Well, it's the mind brain interface, I think, is the telling thing and they stare off into that void and there's all those columns and stuff. 419 00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:37.619 And so there's a kind of dualistic conception of it, the mind, the brain isn't purely organic, the mind isn't something the brain does, you know, they're separate entities that are kind of joined together and you could actually travel from one to the other. 420 00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:46.619 And I think all of that stuff is lovely and it gets like a scene, you know, and it's never developed. that's what Baker and Martin do. 421 00:25:46.680 --> 00:25:51.779 They don't, last year, we complained about hand fear where they had no ideas at all. 422 00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:59.400 Here they have a whole bunch of ideas, that they just dredge up, fling at the screen for 5 minutes and then abandon, you know? 423 00:25:59.460 --> 00:26:00.539 and so nothing gets developed. 424 00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:01.680 There's nothing satisfying. 425 00:26:01.740 --> 00:26:04.859 The invisible enemy doesn't seem to be about anything. 426 00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:10.619 Richard, do you think the story might have been better if the whole thing had been the fantastic voyage? 427 00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:20.460 Oh, because the case with so many Bob Baker and Dave Martin stories, Would it have been better if it had just been one of the 4 or 5 stories they're throwing up on screen, as Nathan's saying? 428 00:26:20.519 --> 00:26:23.460 I think it would have been a lot better with different writers involved. 429 00:26:23.579 --> 00:26:27.240 Different directors, maybe a different set designer. 430 00:26:27.299 --> 00:26:28.680 It's such an interesting question. 431 00:26:28.740 --> 00:26:30.059 What comes first? 432 00:26:30.180 --> 00:26:31.799 What actually makes the story work? 433 00:26:31.859 --> 00:26:32.940 Is it the direction? 434 00:26:32.940 --> 00:26:34.859 Is it the cast? 435 00:26:34.920 --> 00:26:36.480 Is it, the design? 436 00:26:36.539 --> 00:26:42.119 It's kind of cardo intuitive for me, but it seems to be that they work when everyone is working together. 437 00:26:42.180 --> 00:26:47.039 But then I haven't seen a story I haven't liked, that Paddy Russell has done. 438 00:26:47.099 --> 00:26:51.059 I haven't seen a story that I thought was unsuccessful that Dougie Canfield did. 439 00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:54.299 So maybe it does come down to direction in the end. 440 00:26:54.359 --> 00:26:58.140 As I say, you can none of these people, and this is the difference of 70s actors. 441 00:26:58.200 --> 00:27:07.559 They'd all been doing rep for at least a year, 18 months before they gone on to a show like this, which means they've played every single part of every tutoring play that was around that time. 442 00:27:07.619 --> 00:27:10.380 So they do have the range if they need to. 443 00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:12.539 They're just not given a chance to shine. 444 00:27:12.599 --> 00:27:14.819 And we've certainly seen these actors like Michael Shed. 445 00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:16.980 And Frederick Yeger. 446 00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:21.000 And Freddie Yega, who can be terrific and nuanced and, oh, my goodness. 447 00:27:21.059 --> 00:27:24.059 I think the fact that he's wearing a school protractor on his face, probably. 448 00:27:24.119 --> 00:27:24.900 Yeah, yeah. 449 00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:37.440 Well, I think it's a giant intersection of everyone having their worst possible day, combined with, you know, some crummy old Zen cars director who will never work on the show again. 450 00:27:37.740 --> 00:27:41.519 Like I just think it's a huge, it's a huge mess. 451 00:27:41.579 --> 00:27:43.259 And then there's the prawn off. 452 00:27:43.319 --> 00:27:46.440 Well, so this is a particularly horny prawn, isn't it? 453 00:27:46.500 --> 00:27:49.380 Because all it can talk about is the need to spawn. 454 00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:56.759 And this is a theme that comes in episode one where all of these men, they're very keen to breed. 455 00:27:56.819 --> 00:28:00.539 They're constantly talking about how they want to breed and then the prawn. 456 00:28:00.599 --> 00:28:02.279 He's gagging for it. 457 00:28:02.339 --> 00:28:08.039 I mean, you know, like, it's twitching in anxiety about the need to get off the entire time. 458 00:28:08.099 --> 00:28:12.299 Sullivan was still in these stories because you know, he'd be qualified to work on space sailors. 459 00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:14.579 They'll be very much... 460 00:28:14.700 --> 00:28:16.259 What I do like about this story. 461 00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:32.700 And I didn't notice it as a child, of course, is that the basic premise seems to be a moral balance between humanity and every other form of life, that humanity's burgeoning growth and diaspora is no different from the replication of a virus. 462 00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:35.700 And again, I'm back to Robert Erlich's population bomb theories. 463 00:28:35.759 --> 00:28:40.319 The virus is as much right to swarm and multiplies as the human species. 464 00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:48.720 And Tom, actually, there's an argument that they have. between the 2 of them, the doctor and the, I think it's one that's a melanoma, isn't it? 465 00:28:48.779 --> 00:28:51.299 That's stupid... 466 00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:52.200 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 467 00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:53.880 Cat poo effect that it does. 468 00:28:53.940 --> 00:28:59.160 So, but therefore the doctor has the right to dispose of the virus equally. 469 00:28:59.220 --> 00:29:00.480 You see where that moral argument goes? 470 00:29:00.539 --> 00:29:03.779 That's almost something thematic, isn't it? 471 00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:06.359 Like it's the time of humanity's great breakout. 472 00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:11.279 It's nearly the time of the prawns great breakout, but it's not a very interesting moral. 473 00:29:11.339 --> 00:29:12.119 Do you know what I mean? 474 00:29:12.180 --> 00:29:13.140 But it is something. 475 00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:16.680 Someone's paying attention fitfully to the script. 476 00:29:16.740 --> 00:29:17.700 You would think so. 477 00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:27.420 But then later, the doctor states that the virus has to be stopped because it threatens the macro world of the humans, as much as the micro world of other viruses. 478 00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:30.299 So therefore, ethics has scale. 479 00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:32.519 And I just don't see how that can be a problem. 480 00:29:32.579 --> 00:29:34.559 Yeah, it breaks out of its sort of natural place. 481 00:29:34.619 --> 00:29:37.680 Which is the most stupid thing to do because it's now really easily bumped off. 482 00:29:37.740 --> 00:29:38.819 Yeah, yeah. 483 00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:39.599 Why did it do that? 484 00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:40.980 Because it's called hubris, I guess. 485 00:29:40.980 --> 00:29:41.819 It wants to be. 486 00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:45.059 I should have had it been its own star. 487 00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:49.259 I just love that it's wheeling around on it, the raw prawl. 488 00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:54.299 It gets the raw prawn award for my season, complete with its own mounting base and casters. 489 00:29:54.359 --> 00:29:56.160 And they have cast. 490 00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:57.779 It has cast. 491 00:29:57.839 --> 00:29:59.339 Oh, Yatick, my love, where are you? 492 00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:02.819 Well, of course, it's John Scott Martin inside it. 493 00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:05.819 I was hoping it was Stuart Furlow, indeed, Tony Starr. 494 00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:07.200 That would have made it very different. 495 00:30:07.319 --> 00:30:12.960 And has those Alpha Centauri arms too, where it has 3 arms on each side all linked together by string? 496 00:30:13.079 --> 00:30:18.539 So the actor who only has 2 arms or one arm on each side can operate them all. 497 00:30:18.599 --> 00:30:19.500 You know what I mean? 498 00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:20.279 That's right. 499 00:30:20.339 --> 00:30:22.500 Because the Alpha Centauri character was so successful. 500 00:30:22.500 --> 00:30:24.180 They already brought it back again. 501 00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:27.000 They reincarnated it as this one. yeah. 502 00:30:27.059 --> 00:30:29.460 I mean, is it so good? 503 00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:31.619 It's hilarious and funny. 504 00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:32.819 No, because it's not fun. 505 00:30:32.819 --> 00:30:33.960 It's not fun. 506 00:30:34.019 --> 00:30:35.039 I mean, it's a boy. 507 00:30:35.099 --> 00:30:37.140 Okay, because we were lucky we were their 1st time round. 508 00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:38.279 What did we think of it then? 509 00:30:38.759 --> 00:30:41.880 No, I can't remember having a strong opinion. 510 00:30:42.000 --> 00:30:42.599 I don't remember. 511 00:30:42.599 --> 00:30:51.299 The only thing I remember of this story is canine. and that I had to hurriedly go and build yet another TARDIS set, because they've reached, they've changed the console room. 512 00:30:51.359 --> 00:30:51.720 That's it. 513 00:30:51.839 --> 00:30:54.779 I didn't actually own the story as a child. 514 00:30:54.839 --> 00:30:56.160 I didn't see it until my teenage years. 515 00:30:56.220 --> 00:31:00.119 So I don't have childhood nostalgia for it, which you may notice. 516 00:31:00.180 --> 00:31:03.900 Usually I'm the 1st with a crap story to go, oh, isn't it wonderful and isn't it lovely? 517 00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:06.359 No, I'm very much aware of the limitations of this one. 518 00:31:06.420 --> 00:31:08.279 How did you feel when you 1st saw it now? 519 00:31:08.339 --> 00:31:09.779 You know, I still enjoyed it. 520 00:31:09.900 --> 00:31:13.259 But I saw a lot, a lot of problems. 521 00:31:13.319 --> 00:31:18.900 And actually, Todd's taking this as his queue to fly in for a moment and restate something he said last season. 522 00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:26.339 Well, guys, I stand by my statement that Bob Baker and Dave Martin write 2 pretty good episodes of Doctor Who a year. 523 00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:28.980 After that, well, it's anybody's business. 524 00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:33.240 And I must say this, I actually quite enjoy the 1st couple of episodes of this story. 525 00:31:33.299 --> 00:31:37.440 But in episode three, things just start to go horribly wrong. 526 00:31:37.500 --> 00:31:42.059 I actually don't have a problem with the prawn prop, which I think is really well realised. 527 00:31:42.119 --> 00:31:50.160 It's that stupid, black clothed, one clawed thing at the end of episode three, which I just think is absolutely diabolical. 528 00:31:50.279 --> 00:31:52.740 And how much noise does K9 make? 529 00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:55.259 Oh, look, that's all the time I've got time for. 530 00:31:55.319 --> 00:31:57.480 I've got to go outside and exercise leaking. 531 00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:00.720 So, guys... 532 00:32:00.779 --> 00:32:02.400 Todd's very generous giving them two. 533 00:32:03.359 --> 00:32:09.359 So, yeah, we have the first four episodes of eight that Bob Baker and Dave Martin write this year. 534 00:32:09.420 --> 00:32:10.859 And it occurs to me this story. 535 00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:14.099 It's a four-part story, but really, it's 4 one parts. 536 00:32:14.220 --> 00:32:19.619 You know, you've got the mystery of Titan Base and the doctor being taken over. 537 00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:21.660 That's one story and that's kind of dealt with. 538 00:32:21.720 --> 00:32:25.319 And then you've got the doctor being treated in hospital while the virus spreads and that's the 2nd story. 539 00:32:25.380 --> 00:32:26.940 Then you've got fantastic voyage. 540 00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:32.880 Then you've got the more typical Doctor Who monster thing, where it's the doctor versus the monster who wants to take over humanity. 541 00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:36.660 I mean, that is a problem with the story, isn't it? 542 00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:38.579 But it can't settle on what it's about. 543 00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:41.819 Is this the last year that they work on the program? 544 00:32:41.880 --> 00:32:43.980 No, they're back for the key to time. 545 00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:45.900 What wonder do they do in that? 546 00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:47.220 Armageddon factor. 547 00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:49.200 God, they're so terrible. 548 00:32:49.259 --> 00:32:50.759 They were terrible. 549 00:32:50.819 --> 00:32:51.660 Who's hiring? 550 00:32:51.720 --> 00:32:58.140 Williams trusted them with that one because they've, you know, they've got such great tenure. 551 00:32:58.200 --> 00:32:58.920 But I mean, we can cheat. 552 00:32:58.980 --> 00:33:02.519 They're really bad and they used to be good. 553 00:33:02.519 --> 00:33:04.740 Like a Midlands Hall, quick and cheap. 554 00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:16.079 But they've done hand of fear, and invisible enemy, and underworld, and the Armageddon factor, and then got to be contestants for the worst stories about... 555 00:33:16.140 --> 00:33:17.759 You did it here first. 556 00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:19.440 You know, they are bad. 557 00:33:19.500 --> 00:33:22.500 Like, I, you know, like I bitched about them before this. 558 00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:28.799 I just don't think I'd realised the full scale of their incompetence and utter utter evil. 559 00:33:29.880 --> 00:33:34.440 Is this the 1st time Nathan and I have actually sat on the same side of the table on this? 560 00:33:34.500 --> 00:33:42.599 As a boy, I kind of, I did enjoy these because this is how I was writing my fanfic. 561 00:33:42.660 --> 00:33:45.059 However, I was 10. 562 00:33:45.779 --> 00:33:49.440 And that's really all I can say in its defence. 563 00:33:49.500 --> 00:33:54.240 So, yeah, I think Nathan and I are sitting on the same sofa of reasonable comfort for this one. 564 00:33:55.140 --> 00:33:56.819 How about you? 565 00:33:59.880 --> 00:34:09.480 Oh, look, yeah, guys, for once we found a story that we all agree is bad, because quite often we will all agree that a story is good, especially if it had Barbara in it. 566 00:34:09.539 --> 00:34:21.599 But, um, yeah, this is one that, as much as I love the Williams era, and I do adore the Williams, I think this is, I think this is the biggest misfire of the 70s so far. 567 00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:22.440 Really? 568 00:34:22.500 --> 00:34:23.880 Well, so far. 569 00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:25.679 Yeah. 570 00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:26.639 They're still underworld. 571 00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:29.039 And you know how much I didn't like them. 572 00:34:29.099 --> 00:34:31.380 Mutants like Bob Baker and Dave Martin. 573 00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:32.340 Which, see, I did like that. 574 00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:33.300 Yeah, I liked it too. 575 00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:37.679 I like Axos. terrible in many ways. 576 00:34:37.739 --> 00:34:39.780 Well, but Axos is just a disco I want to hang out. 577 00:34:39.900 --> 00:34:40.920 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 578 00:34:40.980 --> 00:34:45.300 Plus both of those have really quite relevant and well-stated social commentary. 579 00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:47.280 Yeah, they do, especially mutants. 580 00:34:47.340 --> 00:34:49.139 I think that was really fresh It still is. 581 00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:51.179 This has a giant prawn on a skateboard. 582 00:34:51.239 --> 00:34:53.880 Which should be everything you've ever wanted. 583 00:34:53.940 --> 00:34:54.900 Sounds delicious. 584 00:35:08.460 --> 00:35:13.860 Unfortunately, or perhaps, thankfully, that's all the time we have to spend at the Baiowl Foundation. 585 00:35:13.980 --> 00:35:17.639 I have so much more today. about how much I hate this story. 586 00:35:17.820 --> 00:35:22.440 Please switch over to ABC 2 for Nathan's extended analysis. 587 00:35:22.500 --> 00:35:31.260 Don't forget, you can find us online at flatthroughentirety.com, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and at FTE podcast on Twitter. 588 00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:38.940 Next Saturday, we release our commentary on Bondfinger for Thunderball, which is possibly the invisible enemy of James Bond films. 589 00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:44.820 So you can check that out on Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes and Bondfinger cast on Twitter. 590 00:35:44.940 --> 00:35:51.840 So until we see you for Bondfinger or for Doctor Who, may all your prawns not try to take you over with a deadly virus. 591 00:35:51.900 --> 00:35:53.219 Thank you very much and good night. 592 00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:53.940 Good night. 593 00:35:54.059 --> 00:35:56.039 I'll just chuck a virus on the Barbie. 594 00:35:56.099 --> 00:35:56.579 See you soon. 595 00:35:59.639 --> 00:36:04.199 That words flight to entirety, Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones and Richard Stone. 596 00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:09.960 This episode, Ren and Stinky, was recorded on the 27th of September 2015. 597 00:36:10.199 --> 00:36:13.559 The next episode will be released on November the 8th. 598 00:36:13.619 --> 00:36:16.320 The scales may have fallen from our eyes on this one. 599 00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:18.360 If they were ever on there to begin with. 600 00:36:28.440 --> 00:36:31.860 Fish people, did we mention that's gone fish people?