WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:21:47 1 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:36.659 Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast coming to you live from the 5th planet. 2 00:00:36.719 --> 00:00:37.320 I'm Brendan. 3 00:00:37.380 --> 00:00:38.460 I'm Nathan. 4 00:00:38.520 --> 00:00:40.920 What's the Fendal's obsession with Ingrid Pitt, then? 5 00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:43.259 That's right. 6 00:00:43.320 --> 00:00:46.320 We are on Chris Boucher's final story for the series. 7 00:00:46.380 --> 00:00:48.240 It's image of the Fender. 8 00:00:58.679 --> 00:01:04.560 All the Island of Fandor, if you're the Doctor Who Appreciation Society with a bad phone line. 9 00:01:04.620 --> 00:01:10.799 This is an interesting one because I said last week that I didn't have a copy of The Invisible Enemy as a child. 10 00:01:10.859 --> 00:01:19.019 I did have a copy of Image of the Fendal as a child, but it's a bit weird because it was on the end of my copy of the 5 doctors. 11 00:01:19.079 --> 00:01:21.599 And also it was unlabelled. 12 00:01:21.659 --> 00:01:24.659 So I didn't know it was there until I was about 10 years old. 13 00:01:25.799 --> 00:01:27.599 Oh my god. 14 00:01:27.659 --> 00:01:29.159 I was older than 10. 15 00:01:29.640 --> 00:01:32.219 The 5 dogs just went out. 16 00:01:32.280 --> 00:01:33.719 I remember watching. 17 00:01:33.780 --> 00:01:39.719 I was younger than 10 when the 5 doctors, actually, when the 5 doctors went out... 18 00:01:39.780 --> 00:01:40.500 No, I was alive. 19 00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:41.879 I was born in October 83. 20 00:01:42.060 --> 00:01:45.659 Now, I'm just going to ask Todd to open us up with a comment here. 21 00:01:45.780 --> 00:01:48.180 Don't say open us up. 22 00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:53.040 Oh, look, I've just bought my shopping list with me. 23 00:01:53.099 --> 00:01:54.780 I'm going to make a souffl today. 24 00:01:54.840 --> 00:01:57.599 It's called the Faux Hinchcliffe Home Souffle. 25 00:01:57.659 --> 00:01:58.980 So let's see what's on my shopping list. 26 00:01:59.219 --> 00:02:07.560 A Victorian country mansion, a cupboard, a glowing skull, a mad scientist, a woman with sixth sense, an invisible enemy. 27 00:02:07.620 --> 00:02:17.879 Oh, I'm supposed to have a Philip Hinchcliffe, but I can only come up with a Graham Williams, and it does say here on the packaging that I've got a Robert Holmes, but I believe that it's actually Anthony Reed. 28 00:02:17.939 --> 00:02:23.460 Oh, yes, and we'll also throw in Chris Boucher, writing for his companion, Elila. 29 00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:25.379 It's gonna be a roaring success. 30 00:02:25.620 --> 00:02:31.199 Well, actually, I think there's too many elements going on in this story to make it a roaring success. 31 00:02:31.259 --> 00:02:36.599 I actually find it's like a souffle that rises and you think, Well, it looks great, it smells great, it's going to taste great. 32 00:02:36.659 --> 00:02:39.719 But it just, for me, isn't all there. 33 00:02:39.780 --> 00:02:44.039 Episode three in particular, guys, what did the doctor and Leila do? 34 00:02:44.099 --> 00:02:45.180 Nothing. 35 00:02:45.240 --> 00:02:46.740 All right, well, I'm feeling a bit peaky. 36 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:50.879 I think I need to go outside and catch some rays of the sun, and I think I need a good steaming as well. 37 00:02:50.939 --> 00:02:52.919 Now, I wonder where can I go for that? 38 00:02:52.979 --> 00:02:56.759 Okay, so I'm going to take Todd's first point first there. 39 00:02:56.879 --> 00:03:01.800 And I do think that this feels like a hangover from the Hinchcliffe era. 40 00:03:01.860 --> 00:03:04.979 It's got so many elements that Hinchcliffe would love to use. 41 00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:12.060 It's even got Stargrove's estate, which was the house of Marcus and Lawrence Garman. 42 00:03:12.360 --> 00:03:14.879 Happiest couple. 43 00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:16.620 George and Ira Gushman. 44 00:03:16.680 --> 00:03:23.159 And Mar Tyler's cottage, who is Mrs. Pooh from... 45 00:03:23.159 --> 00:03:24.539 To the Manor. 46 00:03:24.539 --> 00:03:25.080 To the Manor. 47 00:03:25.139 --> 00:03:25.439 Oh, right. 48 00:03:25.560 --> 00:03:25.979 Oh, is she? 49 00:03:26.039 --> 00:03:26.879 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 50 00:03:26.939 --> 00:03:28.800 I've never read that connection. 51 00:03:28.860 --> 00:03:30.479 I see something dark. 52 00:03:30.539 --> 00:03:31.860 See something, yes. 53 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:33.659 That was just Penelope case. 54 00:03:33.719 --> 00:03:37.259 Her cottage is, of course, Lawrence Garman's hunting lodge. 55 00:03:37.319 --> 00:03:40.199 So, you know, the whole estate's being used again. 56 00:03:40.500 --> 00:03:44.580 But I'm going to go for something very contentious here. 57 00:03:44.639 --> 00:03:49.620 I think the Williams era does horror far, far better than the Hinchcliffe era. 58 00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:51.780 It does moody very, very well, doesn't it? 59 00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:59.340 And on that point, I'd just like to know what Muck Jagger's home and contents insurance must be now because isn't that 2 years in a row, the place is burnt down? 60 00:04:00.300 --> 00:04:02.460 I think his mum was living there. 61 00:04:02.520 --> 00:04:03.360 Yeah, he was. 62 00:04:03.419 --> 00:04:04.860 His mum was living in the 1st one. 63 00:04:04.919 --> 00:04:14.759 What you and Todd haven't identified is the other commonality, which is that the villain isn't just, you know, like a crazy murderous oyster or a giant prawn. 64 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:17.160 There's a seafood theme, isn't there? 65 00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:17.879 Yes, there is. 66 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:20.160 It's an evil from the dawn of time. 67 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:23.519 It's, you know, death, you know, turned into a monster. 68 00:04:23.639 --> 00:04:26.579 It's David Tennant's prop from his Hamlet. 69 00:04:26.879 --> 00:04:29.220 It's love crafty. 70 00:04:29.279 --> 00:04:29.879 Do you know what I mean? 71 00:04:29.939 --> 00:04:31.980 Because we don't mention Lovecraft enough. 72 00:04:32.040 --> 00:04:33.839 It is pure Lovecraft stuff. 73 00:04:33.899 --> 00:04:34.740 It's one of the Titans. 74 00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:35.279 Yes, yes. 75 00:04:35.339 --> 00:04:36.899 So this is beautiful. 76 00:04:37.019 --> 00:04:39.480 This, can we just say, isn't it nice? 77 00:04:39.540 --> 00:04:40.620 Where does this story come from? 78 00:04:40.680 --> 00:04:42.240 Propped up in the middle of the season? 79 00:04:42.300 --> 00:04:45.360 Like a lovely nasturtium amongst all the toadstools. 80 00:04:45.420 --> 00:04:49.500 It's really, it might not smell good, but it got a lot of colour and movement. 81 00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:55.259 So why do you say that it's done better in the Williams era than it was by Hinchcliffe? 82 00:04:55.319 --> 00:04:56.879 Well, I've had to think a lot about that. 83 00:04:56.879 --> 00:05:01.500 And I think it comes back to something we were constantly saying about Hinchcliffe. 84 00:05:01.560 --> 00:05:04.740 With Hinchcliffe, we don't care about supporting characters. 85 00:05:04.800 --> 00:05:05.759 Yeah. 86 00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:12.839 Where there might be one story we care about, like Vira or Lawrence Scarman or Guy Crayford. 87 00:05:12.899 --> 00:05:14.939 You know, you do feel... 88 00:05:14.939 --> 00:05:16.019 I didn't care about Guy Crowford. 89 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:21.180 Giuliano and his friend can never remember it. 90 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:22.560 Giuliano and Marco. 91 00:05:22.620 --> 00:05:23.639 Yeah. 92 00:05:23.639 --> 00:05:32.939 Whereas in this, you've got Adam Colby, you've got Max Stale, you've got Dr. Fendleman, you've got Mar Tyler, you've got Jack Tyler. 93 00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:35.459 They are all... 94 00:05:35.459 --> 00:05:38.759 Interestingly, they're all interestingly drawn characters. 95 00:05:38.819 --> 00:05:41.879 Even the security guard Mitchell who gets killed in the kitchen. 96 00:05:41.939 --> 00:05:46.560 He only gets about 5 lines, but they really cement his character as his job's worth security. 97 00:05:46.620 --> 00:05:47.279 That's Bouchung. 98 00:05:47.339 --> 00:05:50.100 Is that voucher, though, because he gave us robots of dare. 99 00:05:50.220 --> 00:05:51.420 I think it is voucher. 100 00:05:51.480 --> 00:05:58.139 But I also think that the horror in this is really well offset by the comedy. 101 00:05:58.199 --> 00:06:07.079 And robots have had some comedic moments, but it didn't have as much comedy as this, but the comedy here doesn't undermine the horror that we're facing. 102 00:06:07.139 --> 00:06:10.740 And a big part of that is the character of Adam Colby. 103 00:06:10.860 --> 00:06:12.600 He's so funny. 104 00:06:12.660 --> 00:06:13.319 He's so funny. 105 00:06:13.319 --> 00:06:16.800 He's set up to not die, right from the beginning, you can't not like him. 106 00:06:16.860 --> 00:06:25.920 And George Spenton Foster, the director, really gets that these things are British character actors standing around on a set talking out to each other. 107 00:06:25.980 --> 00:06:26.639 Yes. 108 00:06:26.699 --> 00:06:29.220 That's when Doctor Who's at its best. 109 00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:29.579 So. 110 00:06:30.420 --> 00:06:42.660 Yeah, and I mean, something that a lot of people credit as a source for this is, of course, Quace Madison, the Pitt, which have the notion of ancient aliens coming to Earth and influencing humankind indirectly. 111 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:47.579 But I think another very strong influence, also by Nigel Neil, is the stone tape. 112 00:06:47.879 --> 00:06:49.860 Oh, I've heard of this. 113 00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:50.579 Tell us about this. 114 00:06:50.639 --> 00:06:55.379 So the stone tape was a telemovie with Jane Asher. 115 00:06:55.439 --> 00:06:56.879 Oh, she's lovely. 116 00:06:56.939 --> 00:06:58.019 Lovely cakes. 117 00:06:58.019 --> 00:07:00.720 The concept is you have a group of scientists. 118 00:07:01.259 --> 00:07:04.319 A group of scientists go to a haunted castle. 119 00:07:04.800 --> 00:07:08.639 And in this story, Fendelman says the woods are meant to be haunted. 120 00:07:08.699 --> 00:07:18.000 A group of scientists go to a haunted castle because one of the scientists has a theory that there's no such thing as ghosts. 121 00:07:18.060 --> 00:07:22.500 What happens is psychic impressions are recorded onto a building. 122 00:07:23.100 --> 00:07:28.860 And that's why it's called the stone tape because he's trying to pretty much discover steady state hard drives. 123 00:07:28.920 --> 00:07:33.060 They can hear this eerie scream and what have you. 124 00:07:33.180 --> 00:07:37.800 And I won't spoil the twist in the end, but the scream is not what they were expecting it to be. 125 00:07:37.860 --> 00:07:42.240 It's the kind of tone that films like paranormal activity try to capture. 126 00:07:42.300 --> 00:07:44.459 But I don't think they capture it anywhere near as well. 127 00:07:44.519 --> 00:07:45.839 This is 1972 production. 128 00:07:45.899 --> 00:07:46.319 Is it good? 129 00:07:46.439 --> 00:07:47.579 It's very good. 130 00:07:47.639 --> 00:07:48.720 It's very good. 131 00:07:48.779 --> 00:07:50.699 It sounds sapphire and steelish. 132 00:07:50.759 --> 00:07:53.879 It's a bit sapphire and steel is to bit Doctor Who, it's a bit equator mass. 133 00:07:53.939 --> 00:07:55.860 Is it on oneself tube? 134 00:07:55.980 --> 00:07:57.779 It might be on one self-tube? 135 00:07:57.839 --> 00:07:59.399 I'll look for it. 136 00:07:59.399 --> 00:08:00.120 I'll put a link. 137 00:08:00.180 --> 00:08:00.660 I see that. 138 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:14.040 I was thinking, I really liked that you say that because I was actually thinking it was Chris Belcher just showing us how utterly clever he really is, and dragging out the nasal juices of all the nonsense that we've had with Von Danniken. 139 00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:25.139 We talked about mid times before the chariots of the gods and also, um, lampooning the Desmomoris stuff with, um, you know, explaining out, Desmomoris is really big with a naked ape at the time, that book. 140 00:08:25.199 --> 00:08:25.920 Do remember that one? 141 00:08:26.100 --> 00:08:28.439 What was that thing, man watching? 142 00:08:28.500 --> 00:08:29.279 No, what was it called? 143 00:08:29.399 --> 00:08:30.480 Yeah, yep, yep, yep. 144 00:08:30.540 --> 00:08:42.480 He was on Parkinson all the time when we were kids and just talking about, you know, of how our ancestors ancestors survived through complex social systems and through humour and through exchange. 145 00:08:42.600 --> 00:08:46.980 But Chris Boucher just throws all of that up in the air and says, well, it could just be this version, and this makes just as much sense. 146 00:08:47.039 --> 00:08:49.860 I think he's really taking a piss out of the 70s with this. 147 00:08:49.980 --> 00:08:57.720 It's really nicely underplayed, but the understory of it has gravitas and has a whole weight to it. 148 00:08:57.779 --> 00:09:00.179 But unlike bob and day. 149 00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:15.539 If you don't need to throw them all up in the air and point the ideas, you can just suggest that they're there and let the audience ruminate on that while the actors go about being dazzling and charming and in the place of style, Max style. 150 00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:16.860 Really menacing. 151 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:18.779 Some really nice counterpoints. 152 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:22.500 And of course, want to vent them, a mother cumberbatch is just delightful. 153 00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:30.600 And obviously that Pilates was big in the 70s as well because she manages to get herself right up off the floor in all her Ingrid Pippa slap later on in the story, doesn't it? 154 00:09:30.659 --> 00:09:32.399 Yeah, she must have great abs. 155 00:09:32.460 --> 00:09:33.600 I tell you. 156 00:09:33.659 --> 00:09:34.440 Well, it's all fun. 157 00:09:34.440 --> 00:09:36.360 Lana from Archer, isn't she? 158 00:09:36.419 --> 00:09:40.620 Her great abs are all from supporting her 2 wonderful wigs in this story. 159 00:09:40.679 --> 00:09:43.320 Do you know why she's wearing that dark wig? 160 00:09:43.379 --> 00:09:44.759 I do, but do tell us? 161 00:09:44.820 --> 00:09:46.320 No, no, you're tourist is not my story. 162 00:09:46.379 --> 00:09:46.740 Okay. 163 00:09:46.740 --> 00:09:57.419 The reason she is wearing that dark wig is because she is naturally blonde, as we saw... as we saw in UFO. 164 00:09:58.200 --> 00:10:01.440 And Gene Rock in the faceless ones. 165 00:10:01.500 --> 00:10:04.259 And as we'll later see in time of the run, yeah. 166 00:10:04.320 --> 00:10:06.000 Did you realise her real hair? 167 00:10:06.059 --> 00:10:10.320 Her 3 Doctor Who stories are 1967, 1977 and 1987. 168 00:10:10.679 --> 00:10:12.299 And 2 of them have Donald Pickering in them. 169 00:10:12.360 --> 00:10:13.980 Two of them have... 170 00:10:14.039 --> 00:10:14.639 Yes, exactly. 171 00:10:14.700 --> 00:10:23.399 But the reason she has that wig is that Graham Williams said no one would take a pretty blonde scientist seriously will have to make you a brunette. 172 00:10:23.460 --> 00:10:24.179 Oh, God. 173 00:10:24.240 --> 00:10:27.480 Do you think he'd been talking to Barry Letts and Terence Dixon? 174 00:10:27.539 --> 00:10:30.059 about women scientists with blonde hair? 175 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:34.200 So, you know, well done, Graham, for having speaking women roles in the last 3 stories? 176 00:10:34.259 --> 00:10:35.220 For a change. 177 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:37.139 There are more girls, yeah. 178 00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:42.960 Yeah, if he had have said, you know what, we had a blonde woman 2 stories ago and she was our main female guest cast. 179 00:10:43.019 --> 00:10:47.220 That's still a bit ropey, but you'd kind of go, Adelaide, yeah. 180 00:10:47.279 --> 00:10:50.580 You know, yeah, there's no danger to anyone that they'll confuse. 181 00:10:50.639 --> 00:10:52.919 Wait, why is Adelaide back? 182 00:10:52.980 --> 00:10:56.220 Yeah, you know, you're not going to confuse Annette Woodlet with Wanda Bentham. 183 00:10:56.279 --> 00:11:03.480 I think just in case we weren't sure, the 70s really was the 70s. long ago. 184 00:11:03.539 --> 00:11:13.559 But thankfully, it doesn't spoil the fact that she is an excellent character and portrayed so well and the humanity in her performance is so touching. 185 00:11:13.620 --> 00:11:16.080 And when she starts to freak out about what's happening to her. 186 00:11:16.139 --> 00:11:17.399 Freaking eight. 187 00:11:17.460 --> 00:11:23.700 You know, compared to Mac Style, who knows what's going on or thinks he does, and is looking forward to the power of it. 188 00:11:24.059 --> 00:11:26.700 She doesn't want any of that power. 189 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:29.220 She knows what's happening to her and she doesn't want it. 190 00:11:29.220 --> 00:11:32.639 And it's so human and it makes it so sad what happens to her in the end. 191 00:11:32.700 --> 00:11:35.399 In fact, that's one of the things that I don't like about this. 192 00:11:35.460 --> 00:11:36.240 There are a few. 193 00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:41.460 I think the story has a few flaws, but I think maybe chief among them is the way that Wanda Anthem is treated. 194 00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:44.460 And it makes style is a great cartoon villain. 195 00:11:44.519 --> 00:11:46.620 And I think he's a terrific actor. 196 00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:49.019 You know, he's sort of terribly handsome and all that sort of thing. 197 00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:54.299 But he, like, he's a creeper. 198 00:11:54.360 --> 00:11:54.899 Do you know what I mean? 199 00:11:54.960 --> 00:11:56.820 He drugs women and chains them up. 200 00:11:56.879 --> 00:11:59.519 It's like watching the Cosby show in White Beach. 201 00:11:59.580 --> 00:12:00.240 It really is. 202 00:12:00.299 --> 00:12:02.159 He's horrible. 203 00:12:02.220 --> 00:12:05.519 That's not the episode. 204 00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:12.000 Well, okay, but there are other... 205 00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:14.100 Other episode titles are available. 206 00:12:14.159 --> 00:12:16.919 How about blank sections for cow inserts? 207 00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:36.000 Did you notice in that, sorry to do this to Segway, but this has a lot of nice OB, and there's a lot of, the extra footage, if you've watched it on the DVDs, there are of Leila, raising her kneecaps off because this is for general listening in cow fields, in Huddersstock, or wherever she is, Huddersfield, or whatever. 208 00:12:36.059 --> 00:12:41.940 And Tom just mooning about, but there's a lot of points where they're just standing about waiting for a cow to walk past. 209 00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:46.620 So and there is actually a line in the camera scripts, blank sections for cow inserts. 210 00:12:47.220 --> 00:12:49.500 I just wish we'd had more of that. 211 00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:57.000 Now, something else Todd has said in his little bubble is, of course, that the doctor and Leila do very little in this story. 212 00:12:57.059 --> 00:13:03.960 I do find myself very surprised, of course, because the doctor and Leila have very little bearing in the plot in the 1st 2 episodes. 213 00:13:04.019 --> 00:13:05.100 That's why it's good. 214 00:13:05.159 --> 00:13:12.000 And then in the 3rd episode, they bugger off in the TARDIS to go try and check out the 5th planet and discover it's in a time loop and come back. 215 00:13:12.059 --> 00:13:17.279 So the doctor and Leila don't really do anything useful within the plot until halfway through episode three. 216 00:13:17.340 --> 00:13:20.639 And yet this is still so much better than when that happens with Colin Baker. 217 00:13:20.700 --> 00:13:22.259 But why is that? 218 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:23.759 Not to go forward, but to go back. 219 00:13:23.820 --> 00:13:38.220 Do you know, sorry, do you know why I feel that's really great is because it hearkens back to Billy and Barbara and Susan and Ian that we are not organic to the plot, we've jumped in, and these things, terrible things are going to happen, whether we were here or not. 220 00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:40.799 And it's real, we don't know. 221 00:13:40.860 --> 00:13:41.700 It's touch and go. 222 00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:49.500 I really don't like it when the story is integral to the doctor and the doctor's movements and my least favourite doctor whose stories are when it's about the doctor. 223 00:13:49.559 --> 00:13:51.600 You magician's apprentices. 224 00:13:51.659 --> 00:13:52.080 Exactly. 225 00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:54.539 Q episode one of season 9 of the new series. 226 00:13:54.659 --> 00:13:57.419 I just find when it's about the doctor, it's really tedious. 227 00:13:57.480 --> 00:14:01.620 The more he's removed from it, the more the threat is tangible. 228 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:03.419 Who lets him out of the cupboard? 229 00:14:03.539 --> 00:14:05.820 It's cut from the scene now. 230 00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:08.039 It was, I think it was Theo, do you remember? 231 00:14:08.100 --> 00:14:09.419 No. 232 00:14:09.419 --> 00:14:10.440 Theo goes looking for him. 233 00:14:10.500 --> 00:14:12.120 Fear goes looking for him. 234 00:14:12.120 --> 00:14:14.279 I don't think he's let out. think it's Max? 235 00:14:14.340 --> 00:14:18.779 I think it's Max because Theo goes looking for him and then stumbles across the Sonic Time scanner. 236 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:21.000 When she's still in that closet. 237 00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:30.960 When she is in the Sonic Times scanner, Max comes in and says something to the she says I was looking for that man and Max says he's gone. 238 00:14:31.019 --> 00:14:36.960 How does he know he's, because Max has already had the conversation, I'm the doctor can't be any danger to our plans. 239 00:14:37.019 --> 00:14:37.980 So he lets him know. 240 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:39.480 So why does he want to let him go though? 241 00:14:39.539 --> 00:14:41.639 Because he can't be any danger to our plans? 242 00:14:41.700 --> 00:14:42.600 Why not? 243 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:49.200 If he's the thing is, if he's let go and he's running around and he gets caught again, that's even more of a distraction for Max to then get on with what he's doing. 244 00:14:49.259 --> 00:14:50.759 That's logical, yeah. 245 00:14:50.820 --> 00:14:56.279 I actually just thought that he's kicking the door and all of that sort of thing just sort of eventually dislodges it. 246 00:14:56.340 --> 00:15:02.519 I mean, it's a sort of gag about the fact that you hear the lock go, you know, and suddenly he can get out. 247 00:15:02.580 --> 00:15:06.299 I wasn't reading it as someone has had secretly let him out. 248 00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:07.799 Fair enough. 249 00:15:07.860 --> 00:15:10.139 And there are jokes at his expense there. 250 00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:10.740 Isn't there? 251 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:21.360 We segue from Leila talking about his great wisdom and a kind of gentleness. segue to him locked in a cupboard, kicking the door furiously, you know, like a giant idiot. 252 00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:24.779 The episode 3 thing, I think, is a bit of a problem. 253 00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:36.480 And I think it's something that will come up again with stones of blood where we go for a Gothic horror thing and then we segue into a science fiction thing as if we kind of bottle out at the last moment. 254 00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:42.779 And here, I think a lot of effort and energy is spent in explaining the Fendal. 255 00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:44.759 So the Fandali's death itself. 256 00:15:44.820 --> 00:15:45.779 It eats death. 257 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:50.940 You know, like, it is a horror from, you know, the prehistory of the universe. 258 00:15:51.059 --> 00:16:05.879 But we spend episode 3 establishing that it comes from the 5th planet, which is the planet between Mars and Jupiter that breaks up to form the asteroid belt, and that the time lords destroyed it or time looped it or whatever the hell they did. 259 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:07.620 How can it be an asteroid? 260 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:12.659 No, no, but I mean, I think that that is what they say. that is the question. 261 00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:13.440 It's 2 things at once. 262 00:16:13.500 --> 00:16:23.159 And then you get the giant that big bit of dialogue between Colby and the doctor talking about evolution taking a blind alley on the 5th planet and there's this and all of these sorts of things. 263 00:16:23.220 --> 00:16:24.240 Which is entirely plausible. 264 00:16:24.299 --> 00:16:29.100 But he offers all of these theories and then says, oh, it could just be one giant coincidence. 265 00:16:29.220 --> 00:16:30.059 Do you know what I mean? 266 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:36.240 That's what I mean about Boucher taking the Mickey out of the entire 70s conspiracy stuff. 267 00:16:36.299 --> 00:16:36.840 Yeah, yeah. 268 00:16:36.899 --> 00:16:40.259 But it seems like wasted time. 269 00:16:40.740 --> 00:16:43.200 But is that how people would discuss it? 270 00:16:43.259 --> 00:16:44.820 I just think it's more naturalistic. 271 00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:48.840 It gives so much flesh to these characters that I really am interested. 272 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:58.259 And no one dies not to preempt if you haven't seen it, do listener, but no one dies as horridly as Fendelman himself in the final scenes. 273 00:16:58.320 --> 00:16:59.399 He's not necessarily bad. 274 00:16:59.460 --> 00:17:03.480 He's just narcissistic and a bit, you know, monodirectional and linear. 275 00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:09.539 In fact, I actually think the story tries to make us think he's the villain initially because he has the accent. 276 00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:10.859 He's called Fendelman. 277 00:17:10.980 --> 00:17:11.700 You doing the accent? 278 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:13.980 Yeah, same doings, the accent, Adam. 279 00:17:14.099 --> 00:17:15.539 He's got moustache. 280 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:18.960 Yeah, he's got the giant Dennis Lil moustache. 281 00:17:19.019 --> 00:17:21.240 The trademark, Dennis Lil Moustache. 282 00:17:21.299 --> 00:17:23.039 He's in survivors. 283 00:17:23.099 --> 00:17:33.660 I don't know if you've seen Survivors, but Survivors is the 70s Terry Nation thing where everyone's wiped out by a virus except for a bunch of white middle class people in England. 284 00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:38.220 In about episode 4 or 5 of the 1st season of Survivors. 285 00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:48.180 They come across a colony of people, which is run by Dennis Lil, and Dennis Lil has decided to repopulate the entire Earth single handedly. 286 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:52.920 So he lives in a colony with a whole bunch of women whom he's having sex with and stuff. 287 00:17:52.980 --> 00:18:04.799 And then later they get him back and sort of rehabilitate him so that he can take over when Watt's his face from Warriors of the Deep leaves the show and he has to Ingrid it. 288 00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:06.960 And he has to take over as the lead of the show. 289 00:18:07.019 --> 00:18:08.579 Why am I saying all of this? 290 00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:10.680 I'm sure I was thinking about something. 291 00:18:10.740 --> 00:18:11.940 I think I was distracted. 292 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:14.039 I was distracted by Dennisville's moustache. 293 00:18:14.099 --> 00:18:17.160 So survivors is kind of like The Walking Dead without zombies. 294 00:18:17.220 --> 00:18:18.900 Otherwise known as the Walking Dead series 2. 295 00:18:19.079 --> 00:18:20.819 Well, it's kind of the walking. 296 00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:22.319 Yeah, in fact, it is a lot like that. 297 00:18:22.380 --> 00:18:25.019 They raise, they have a farm, you know, they raise things. 298 00:18:25.079 --> 00:18:26.160 There's no real tension. 299 00:18:26.220 --> 00:18:27.240 Are they Amish? 300 00:18:27.299 --> 00:18:27.900 No. 301 00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:30.180 No, it's not a very good series. 302 00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:31.559 I haven't watched it. 303 00:18:31.619 --> 00:18:33.720 No, no, I'm scared of zombies. 304 00:18:33.779 --> 00:18:34.859 I can't watch Walking Dead too. 305 00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:43.079 So Dennis Lil is presented as our villain, but then, of course, style takes over. 306 00:18:43.079 --> 00:18:46.980 And he's Boaz from Day of the Daleks. 307 00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:49.079 Yes, he's Scott Fredericks. 308 00:18:49.140 --> 00:18:49.980 Feather Boers. 309 00:18:50.039 --> 00:18:51.839 And as we called him. 310 00:18:51.900 --> 00:18:54.660 And he's rather handsome, it has to be said. 311 00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:59.339 Malcolm McDowell's psycho stab you in the back of the head with a knitting needle handsome way. 312 00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:01.259 That's off my Friday night. 313 00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:15.299 He's Carnell in Blake 7 in the episode of Blake 7 called Weapon, which is by Chris Boucher, and he plays a psycho strategist who's able to predict other people's behaviour. 314 00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:18.420 And I believe it's also directed by George Spenton Foster. 315 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:21.539 Well, that's why I spent in Foster doesn't direct again, does he? 316 00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:23.039 Does he direct again here, please? 317 00:19:23.099 --> 00:19:24.539 He's back on for Ryboss operation. 318 00:19:24.660 --> 00:19:27.539 That's right, but then after that, he's Blake 7. 319 00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:27.900 Yeah. 320 00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:34.559 So Carnell is brought back by Chris Boucher to be in the Caldor City audios, remember? 321 00:19:34.619 --> 00:19:39.660 He's a character in the big Finnish audios that are sort of sequels to Robots of Death. 322 00:19:40.019 --> 00:19:42.900 So it's all a rich tapestry, really. 323 00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:46.500 It is a lovely, rich bouillabaise, really, isn't it? 324 00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:49.140 Back onto the theme. 325 00:19:49.259 --> 00:19:52.440 Food theme of the... seafood. 326 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:53.519 Hmm. 327 00:19:53.759 --> 00:20:04.319 Now, despite the fact that the doctor and Leila don't get much to do in the first two episodes, the doctor and Leila, for the 1st one, are the subject of the 1st 2 cliffhangers. 328 00:20:04.380 --> 00:20:08.579 And the 1st cliffhanger is completely mental because it's just... 329 00:20:08.579 --> 00:20:11.880 It seems to just have half its footage cut out of it. 330 00:20:11.940 --> 00:20:12.660 And it does. 331 00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:16.980 It does, yeah, because Tom in the Woods, we're meant to see him slowly becoming stuck. 332 00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:22.680 Instead, he's walking along, we cut to Leila, poking ahead around a door or not as we discover next week. 333 00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:24.539 Thank you, perils of Pauline style. 334 00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:25.980 It's a real sheet. 335 00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:26.400 Yes, it is. 336 00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:31.259 But then we cut back to the doctor just standing there and completely stock still. 337 00:20:31.319 --> 00:20:34.079 And that would work if when the hiker had been attacked. 338 00:20:34.140 --> 00:20:37.440 He'd just been standing there stock still, but instead he was screaming. 339 00:20:37.500 --> 00:20:39.059 So it's kind... 340 00:20:39.059 --> 00:20:45.240 As just a cliffhanger, if you just watch it, it's absolutely fine, but the buildup comes out of nowhere. 341 00:20:45.299 --> 00:20:50.099 The 2nd cliffhanger also comes out of nowhere, but it's a great what the hell moment. 342 00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:51.480 Remind me. 343 00:20:51.539 --> 00:20:53.819 It's the doctor putting his hand on the skull. 344 00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:59.039 And we have heard a reference that it's like the skull was full of energy. 345 00:20:59.099 --> 00:21:10.920 But instead of being told, if you touch the skull, it will drain your life energy, we kind of realise when the doctor puts his hand on it, and it hangs on that moment longer than usual, which has a few effects. 346 00:21:10.980 --> 00:21:12.480 First of all, it gives us time to twig. 347 00:21:12.539 --> 00:21:14.819 That's how it absorbs energy through touch. 348 00:21:14.940 --> 00:21:27.539 But 2nd of all, and this would become increasingly rarer as Tom's attitude to the role became bigger and bigger and bigger, as we'll see in the next few series, we see the doctor genuinely in pain and genuinely terrified by what's happening. 349 00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:30.599 Well, that was a feature of the Hingecliffia as well. 350 00:21:30.660 --> 00:21:36.000 Tom and Payne is a very frequent thing and that goes away as he becomes kind of inviolate. 351 00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:37.019 Yeah. 352 00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:45.900 And it does give us a great, a great reprise and a great solution where Leila kicks the chair out from under him and he lands on top of her. 353 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:49.559 And yeah, in any other show, that'd be a moment of sexual tension. 354 00:21:49.619 --> 00:21:52.380 But in this, it's Leila says, you are very heavy. 355 00:21:53.460 --> 00:21:56.279 Hey, did I did I just save your life? 356 00:21:56.339 --> 00:21:57.240 It's so cute. 357 00:21:57.299 --> 00:21:58.319 It's great. 358 00:21:58.380 --> 00:22:01.380 Well, it's nice to have Leila written by Chris Boucher again. 359 00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:02.339 He gets her. 360 00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:03.420 She's not an idiot. 361 00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:04.079 She's different. 362 00:22:04.140 --> 00:22:05.400 Do you know what I mean? 363 00:22:05.460 --> 00:22:08.339 Do they throw those lines in themselves in rehearsal? 364 00:22:08.700 --> 00:22:10.380 Quite possibly. 365 00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:15.240 But at the same time, Chris Boucher is just really, really, really good with character. 366 00:22:15.299 --> 00:22:22.380 And funny dialogue and particularly bitchy dialogue between characters who aren't getting on, you know, he's really good. 367 00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:24.240 Mother Tyler, the highlight. 368 00:22:24.299 --> 00:22:25.019 I was really missing. 369 00:22:25.019 --> 00:22:27.599 I'm expecting Sylvia Coleridge at any moment. 370 00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:29.339 She got busting in painting. 371 00:22:30.180 --> 00:22:33.900 But there's, you don't need Amelia Ducar because you have... 372 00:22:33.900 --> 00:22:34.740 You have Martai? 373 00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:35.940 You have Bonnie Tyler, yeah. 374 00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:36.180 Yeah. 375 00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:38.099 No, she's actually Martha Tyler. 376 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:43.559 So she's a weird combination of the 1st 2 companions of the new series. 377 00:22:43.619 --> 00:22:47.279 Does Rose Tyler have an Uncle Jack, possibly? 378 00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:48.480 Uncle Jack Tyler. 379 00:22:48.539 --> 00:22:50.339 We may never know. 380 00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:54.960 Something which this story is kind of missing is Dudley Simpson. 381 00:22:55.019 --> 00:22:57.960 The 1st 2 episodes only have 6 minutes of music between them. 382 00:22:58.140 --> 00:22:59.579 It's very Graham Williams. 383 00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:02.700 We haven't mentioned how the scoring has changed so much. since. 384 00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:17.279 You know, we had all that meticulous and quite expensive use of scoring directly for scenes that culminated, of course, in seeing Dudley on stage at the old Bournbush in Weng Chaiang. 385 00:23:17.339 --> 00:23:19.799 But now, yeah, it's very sparse, isn't it? 386 00:23:19.859 --> 00:23:21.119 And it's mostly Foley. 387 00:23:21.180 --> 00:23:26.880 It's Mo, he's going back to the sound effects people, so you get the woo-woo noise of the washing machine fend doll maker. 388 00:23:26.940 --> 00:23:28.980 And I like it for that. 389 00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:30.960 I like that the score is held off. 390 00:23:31.019 --> 00:23:35.759 Do you know, I actually think the Dudley has a pretty good year this year, and he writes some formatic stuff. 391 00:23:35.819 --> 00:23:38.339 I even think that he's OK in underworld. 392 00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:41.640 I think he's really good in sun makers. 393 00:23:41.819 --> 00:23:51.539 I think this is the season where the fourth doctor's theme really becomes a thing, you know, like, we got... 394 00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:58.079 But I think it really comes to the fore, I think, in season 16 and 17, but it's used here more often. 395 00:23:58.140 --> 00:24:00.420 I think he does a pretty good job. 396 00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:06.660 I have to agree with you, really, especially with Underworld, which we'll talk about in a couple of weeks time. 397 00:24:06.839 --> 00:24:25.680 But where I think the music is so good here is because it's so sparse at the beginning, that emphasises the horror and the eeriness of the situation, because, you know, say brain of Morbius, really, it's okay to be scared because you've got bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, all the way through. 398 00:24:25.740 --> 00:24:32.759 Whereas here, the music doesn't really start to take hold until fear transforms into the fendoline. 399 00:24:32.819 --> 00:24:37.559 And even then, it's sort of magical and I dream of genie, but with a really sinister undercurrent. 400 00:24:37.619 --> 00:24:40.799 It's the music from the Blake 7 episode duel. 401 00:24:40.859 --> 00:24:43.019 Remember that, don't you think? 402 00:24:43.079 --> 00:24:53.700 It's that ethereal sort of female voice thing when Thea does her sort of raising up and turning into a sort of gold helga sort of thing. 403 00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:55.980 I am going to go backwards in the story just for a moment. 404 00:24:56.039 --> 00:24:58.799 And this is just about a personal experience I had with this story. 405 00:24:58.859 --> 00:25:02.640 As I mentioned earlier, it was on the end of a tape which had the 5 doctors. 406 00:25:02.700 --> 00:25:04.980 It wasn't written on the label, so I didn't know it was there for ages. 407 00:25:05.099 --> 00:25:07.500 I just discovered it late one night on the tape. 408 00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:13.200 I let the 5 doctors credits run through and sort of halfway through the credits, it cut to image of the fend up. 409 00:25:13.259 --> 00:25:17.640 Now, of course this was in the era of videotape, dear listeners. 410 00:25:17.700 --> 00:25:24.779 I'm sure many of you would remember that It's much like cuniform tablets, only it doesn't quite have the durability. 411 00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:27.420 Well, this is a very good point. 412 00:25:27.480 --> 00:25:31.140 And something you had to use to do with videotapes was adjust the tracking. 413 00:25:31.319 --> 00:25:33.539 Do you remember adjusting tracking? 414 00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:34.380 Yes. 415 00:25:35.339 --> 00:25:42.059 Yeah, and of course, if there was any sort of, say, physical dust or a blemish on the tape. 416 00:25:42.119 --> 00:25:44.400 If a bird flew overhand. 417 00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:45.480 Yeah, that's right. 418 00:25:45.539 --> 00:25:54.839 It could actually mess up the heads, which were playing the tape, which is similar to, and I'm not trying to take the Mick here, but if there's those of you out here who've never used videotape. 419 00:25:54.900 --> 00:25:57.900 It would be similar to a smudge on a DVD disrupting the laser. 420 00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:01.799 But instead of just stopping, it could actually then damage the heads itself. 421 00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:04.799 And they would like plough their way through. 422 00:26:04.859 --> 00:26:08.160 I had videotapes that the heads would just chew their way through. 423 00:26:08.220 --> 00:26:08.880 Yeah, absolutely. 424 00:26:08.940 --> 00:26:16.140 Well, there was some kind of some kind, there was something stuck to a particular point in the tape. 425 00:26:16.200 --> 00:26:22.200 And if you played it at normal speed through that scene, uh, it would become a snowstorm. 426 00:26:22.259 --> 00:26:23.940 You have to clean your videotape heads with alcohol. 427 00:26:24.059 --> 00:26:27.599 If you fast forwarded through that scene, it was absolutely fine. 428 00:26:28.859 --> 00:26:37.920 The scene in question was when they are discussing how the pentagram got on the skull and it's really eerie and it's lighting their faces up. 429 00:26:37.980 --> 00:26:44.640 So when I'm watching that as a kid, as they're discussing how this thing can absorb your energy, the screen turns into static. 430 00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:53.099 And there's all this discussion and I'm watching this at about one AM during the school holidays by myself. 431 00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:55.019 And I'm terrified for 2 things. 432 00:26:55.079 --> 00:26:56.880 One, the story is terrifying too. 433 00:26:56.940 --> 00:26:59.759 Oh, I've got to get the video head cleaning tape. 434 00:27:00.660 --> 00:27:02.940 There are lots of indications. 435 00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:16.740 I don't know if you've done any history at school at that stage when you saw it, but I like that the Fendal in its human form looks like one of the bull leaping priestesses of Nossos of Troy. 436 00:27:17.099 --> 00:27:18.420 Really? 437 00:27:18.420 --> 00:27:19.079 Did they? 438 00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:21.539 They painted giant eyes on their eyelids. 439 00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:28.200 I was thinking, put the hair and the dress she's wearing is really harking back again to Time Monster, if you like the same antecedents. 440 00:27:28.259 --> 00:27:30.960 Was that why you were making cracks about Ingrid Pitt earlier? 441 00:27:31.019 --> 00:27:31.980 I was, yes. 442 00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:32.880 It's the same look. 443 00:27:32.940 --> 00:27:35.460 But without the painted eyelids. 444 00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:43.740 But the notion that the Fandal has been inculcating humanity throughout, it hasn't just woken up after 12000000 years. 445 00:27:43.799 --> 00:27:45.720 It's actually had an influence that entire period. 446 00:27:45.779 --> 00:27:49.740 But it mostly likes hammer horror and it plays your family. 447 00:27:49.799 --> 00:27:51.000 It really is, isn't it? 448 00:27:51.059 --> 00:27:54.960 Maybe, maybe Peter Cushing used to live above it. with Christopher... 449 00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:57.960 Peter Fendelman... right. 450 00:27:58.019 --> 00:28:00.180 Is there anyone in this that doesn't work? 451 00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:01.500 Is there anyone who? 452 00:28:01.559 --> 00:28:04.079 I don't think there's anyone in the cast. 453 00:28:04.140 --> 00:28:05.819 No, no, I think the casts are all really good. 454 00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:06.900 And the pacing is good. 455 00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:08.819 Yeah, I think the writing is lovely. 456 00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:16.740 I think there's, I think that there's exposition scenes, as I said before, in 3 and 4 that don't really work and aren't really necessary. 457 00:28:16.740 --> 00:28:26.759 And I think it's an attempt by Williams to move away from the kind of Gothic horror of the Hingecliffe thing and make it a bit more science-based. 458 00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:29.279 But I think the horror, I agree with Brendan. 459 00:28:29.339 --> 00:28:35.819 I think the horror actually works more here because it's implicit rather than the explicit horror of the Hinchcliffe here. 460 00:28:35.819 --> 00:28:44.640 And, of course, borrowing from Lovecraft, you can't go wrong if you're talking about horror from before, the vocal memory of human culture. 461 00:28:44.700 --> 00:28:45.720 Absolutely. 462 00:28:45.779 --> 00:28:49.259 The horror, instead of being given front and centre screen. 463 00:28:49.319 --> 00:29:02.160 It's what a lot of horror films do now in that they might be focussing on, say, Adam Colby, but really what's going on and the important thing to the plot is how Fear Ransom is reacting behind him. 464 00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:18.900 And doesn't she do it beautifully in a, in a, what should be a very passive role and being, you know, pretty much the Pauline character, perilously impaled on her own Pilates washboard, but she's actually, for me, really giving the impetus to it. 465 00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:20.339 She's the one that's showing the true horror. 466 00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:23.759 And Adam is actually kind of nicely as the audience figure. 467 00:29:23.819 --> 00:29:25.980 He's just sitting there, just standing there. 468 00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:28.380 You know, he and Tom were mates in rep. 469 00:29:28.500 --> 00:29:29.279 It comes across. 470 00:29:29.339 --> 00:29:33.359 Yeah, those actors had a rapport when they were both young men. 471 00:29:33.420 --> 00:29:37.980 We've got another story here which is similar to horror, fang rock in terms of the body count. 472 00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:41.279 You know, so many people we meet during the course of the story, die. 473 00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:47.339 But we do have people, as Richard observed, like Adam Colby is very definitely he's going to be alive. 474 00:29:47.400 --> 00:29:49.500 Mark Tyler, Jack Tyler. 475 00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:54.420 You'll notice that the recipe for the fruit muffins today has come from the doctors. 476 00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:58.740 I buried it for 2 weeks in my team in the garden before I served it, yeah. 477 00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:00.359 The cat didn't get to it. 478 00:30:00.660 --> 00:30:02.819 We asked 2 weeks ago. 479 00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:06.599 Could any of the characters have survived Horror of Fang Rock? 480 00:30:06.660 --> 00:30:14.220 And I think we kind of have an answer here in that, it's more effective in a way, because the deaths we have, and especially Thea's death, mean more. 481 00:30:14.279 --> 00:30:15.299 It's awful. 482 00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:21.240 And Matt, even Max's death, and we're meant to hate Max and the doctors say, I can't do anything for you. 483 00:30:21.299 --> 00:30:24.240 And Max asked for the gun and the doctor's like, don't be stupid. 484 00:30:24.299 --> 00:30:24.960 It won't do anything. 485 00:30:25.019 --> 00:30:26.460 He says, it's not for her. 486 00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:28.200 Do you know that was a compromise? 487 00:30:28.259 --> 00:30:31.920 They actually were going to show, they showed him putting the gun in the mouth. 488 00:30:32.039 --> 00:30:33.059 Yeah, that was in the script. 489 00:30:33.059 --> 00:30:37.559 And that was it. and this was a compromise between Graham and Williams and the heads of the BBC. 490 00:30:37.619 --> 00:30:38.880 So, well, I think... 491 00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:45.119 Same of the complains about that, but I think it would have been terrible to see him put the gun on. you don't need it? 492 00:30:45.180 --> 00:30:51.539 Also, I'm really glad to see that Williams isn't actually compromising on what made Doctor Who so popular in the last few years. 493 00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:52.440 He knows. 494 00:30:52.500 --> 00:30:55.200 He's had a bit of shrift. 495 00:30:55.259 --> 00:31:08.519 I'm not sure where the popular continuum of fandom opinion is, he got a lovely reprise in the 90s when people like Paul Canell and Kate Orman were just, you know, going back to the reason he loved Graham Williams. 496 00:31:08.579 --> 00:31:23.279 Well, the reason I love Graham Williams is, and he does it in this one as well, he always talks about books, and as a young boy, I liked that there was a Bob Holmes thing, that the doctor gave us the meaning of a new word in each story, and he would mention books, and this is the one where I read a lot. 497 00:31:23.339 --> 00:31:33.720 And I still use that line at work when people ask a question and it absolutely silences everyone to this day, but because I can't believe I'm doing such a twat impersonation. 498 00:31:34.140 --> 00:31:36.599 Just speaking of, I read a lot. 499 00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:39.839 I once had a boss who didn't know who Martin Luther King was. 500 00:31:39.900 --> 00:31:41.519 Ah. 501 00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:43.799 Wankaw. 502 00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:46.500 No, absolutely. 503 00:31:46.559 --> 00:31:50.220 I think you really played the Harlem Globetrotters, didn't you? 504 00:31:50.339 --> 00:31:56.519 Graham Williams came into the program with the instruction to reduce the quotient of horror. 505 00:31:56.579 --> 00:31:59.039 And I don't think he does at this point. 506 00:31:59.160 --> 00:32:00.240 No, he doesn't. 507 00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:04.079 Horror Fang Rock, as the title suggests, was a horror. 508 00:32:04.140 --> 00:32:05.940 This is a horror. 509 00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:13.319 What he's done is he has made the characterisation more real and that means that the characters have light as well as dark. 510 00:32:13.380 --> 00:32:17.700 I think the problem with the Hinchcliffe era was not so much the horror. 511 00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:20.220 It was the lack of light in the stories. 512 00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:24.660 Yeah, I, oh, that it's sustensible. 513 00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:28.200 I like this, again, I like this one because it's implicit. 514 00:32:28.259 --> 00:32:32.160 It feels far more like a literature. 515 00:32:32.220 --> 00:32:36.660 It feels far more like Lovecraft in the written version than it. 516 00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:39.900 It's not very filmic. in the way that it implies horror. 517 00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:40.319 You disagree? 518 00:32:40.380 --> 00:32:47.880 Well, I just think Lovecraft is actually has some great ideas, but is a truly, truly terrible right. and a brutal racist. 519 00:32:47.940 --> 00:32:48.779 Do you know what I mean? 520 00:32:48.900 --> 00:32:50.700 Well, he's obviously... 521 00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:52.980 Yeah, I agree with the other races and his implicit. 522 00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:59.220 He actually makes very good drama, the audio drama, the BBC do quite a few radio versions of... 523 00:32:59.279 --> 00:33:02.279 Yeah, but that way you don't have to actually read his pro. 524 00:33:02.339 --> 00:33:05.700 In the mountains of madness has just been repeated again on BBC 4. 525 00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:06.480 It's really well done. 526 00:33:06.539 --> 00:33:08.759 Yeah, they're great ideas. 527 00:33:08.819 --> 00:33:14.519 And certainly Hinchcliffe plunders them relentlessly, and this is kind of the last hurrah of that approach. 528 00:33:14.579 --> 00:33:23.099 And I actually wonder whether despite, you know, William's innovations, that approach to Doctor Who has now played out. 529 00:33:23.339 --> 00:33:26.579 Yeah, and we will see less of the horror. 530 00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:31.680 We get sort of one horror story next year and then in William's final year. 531 00:33:31.740 --> 00:33:38.099 We don't really, we get some horror horror aspects in stories, but we don't get another horror story after. 532 00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:45.240 Well, in fact, next year's horror story does what this one does, which is take a quick left turn into science fiction in episode three. 533 00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:46.380 Do you know what I mean? 534 00:33:46.440 --> 00:33:48.779 And it becomes something different from what we expected. 535 00:33:48.900 --> 00:33:51.839 And I would argue as much as I love that story. 536 00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:54.779 It's not anywhere near as effective as image of the fender. 537 00:33:54.900 --> 00:33:56.339 Yeah, no, I think that's probably true. 538 00:33:56.400 --> 00:33:59.099 I love both of them, though, I have to say. 539 00:33:59.160 --> 00:34:02.940 Before we finish up, I'd just like to discuss the interplay between the 2 regulars. 540 00:34:03.059 --> 00:34:07.019 So I think Tom and Louise are getting on much better now. 541 00:34:07.079 --> 00:34:08.940 They had some rapport. 542 00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:10.800 They have some comedic dialogue. 543 00:34:10.860 --> 00:34:14.880 Louise has that horrible haircut because of an overzealous BBC. 544 00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:15.659 Oh my goodness. 545 00:34:15.659 --> 00:34:16.679 BBC hairdresser. 546 00:34:16.739 --> 00:34:24.659 Did Todd not leave a question about this because Todd has been bitching for weeks about how awful Leila's costume is and how terrible her hair is? 547 00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:25.860 Well, that's the thing. 548 00:34:25.980 --> 00:34:32.219 He did actually include that it is recording, but I decided not to include it because he's been talking about it so much. 549 00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:34.800 I figured long term listeners would understand. 550 00:34:34.860 --> 00:34:36.480 Might be terrible. 551 00:34:36.539 --> 00:34:40.139 Mine's a big disappointment is that the intention for the character. 552 00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:50.460 Maybe Boucher puts that into this one, but, you know, maybe it was more a Hinchcliffe thing, is that Leela was going to progress along the lines of Eliza Doolittle. 553 00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:55.800 And she would never wear the skins again after Weng Chiang, when she changes. 554 00:34:55.860 --> 00:35:00.420 It was, it was, and they carried that forward a little with horrifying, right? 555 00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:01.800 She's wearing an outfit. 556 00:35:01.860 --> 00:35:06.480 But then they've gone back to dumbing her down and then treating her like an idiot sometimes. 557 00:35:06.539 --> 00:35:08.039 It doesn't happen to her in this story. 558 00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:21.059 But you haven't heard our talents of Wing Shayang episode yet, but I actually object strongly to her being put in that dress because she turns into a sort of simpering girly, you know, and so... 559 00:35:21.059 --> 00:35:22.739 She's got a rat at her nethers. 560 00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:25.139 No, no, that's when she's in her undies later. 561 00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:26.159 I know. 562 00:35:26.219 --> 00:35:28.380 Well, she's dressed as the artful dog, yeah. 563 00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:29.219 She's dressed as a boy. 564 00:35:29.219 --> 00:35:30.960 In those velvets. 565 00:35:31.019 --> 00:35:32.460 No, he doesn't win Cheyenne. 566 00:35:32.579 --> 00:35:35.699 When Lightfoot chooses a guy in for her, yes. 567 00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:43.139 When Rex Harrison and Colonel Pickering go out and buy her address and put her in it and then she smiles like a proper girl. 568 00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:47.880 Like, I don't think the journey from huntress to a woman. 569 00:35:48.420 --> 00:35:48.960 But she's a girl. 570 00:35:49.019 --> 00:35:50.340 I mean, you know, this is the thing. 571 00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:52.440 This is an all boy cast. 572 00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:54.300 Girls like dress frocking up. 573 00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:55.679 They do, and so do quite a few boys. 574 00:35:55.739 --> 00:35:58.860 I think I need to look too far. this tabletop. 575 00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:00.780 Pate biscuit indeed. 576 00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:08.219 This is, you know, it's, she, I think that was actually really charming that she was still able to to play along with the girly stuff. 577 00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:09.420 She's a woman. 578 00:36:09.480 --> 00:36:11.880 She's allowed to frock up and be feminine. 579 00:36:11.940 --> 00:36:14.280 I mean, she's not all the other things aren't as valid. 580 00:36:14.340 --> 00:36:15.960 Anyway, we've kind of done this. 581 00:36:16.019 --> 00:36:17.460 Yeah, yeah. 582 00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:19.019 Oh, it's fresh for me anyway. 583 00:36:19.079 --> 00:36:20.760 Head back about 3 weeks too. 584 00:36:20.820 --> 00:36:22.320 If you'd like to hear that conversation again. 585 00:36:22.380 --> 00:36:31.019 Well, I still, it's still pertinent to this, to the exposition of Lita's character as we're going along, because I feel she's hitting the brakes too often. 586 00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:36.360 She doesn't know this story, but she has in the one previous to this one, and I think she will in the next one. 587 00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:40.019 I think that Baker and Martin write her poorly. 588 00:36:40.139 --> 00:36:42.179 I think Boucher does a good job. 589 00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:50.579 I think Bob Holmes's initial stab at the character in Talons of Wing Chang is terrible, but that he does a great job of her in Sunmakers. 590 00:36:50.639 --> 00:36:56.039 I think Terence, to my surprise, does a good job of her, you know. he does. 591 00:36:56.099 --> 00:36:56.699 Yeah, yeah. 592 00:36:56.820 --> 00:37:03.480 But she is a character who really, because she's so high concept, she kind of lives and dies on the writing. 593 00:37:03.539 --> 00:37:09.659 It's not the normal thing where you invent a very thin character and just rely on the actor to create the character. 594 00:37:09.780 --> 00:37:17.519 This is a high concept character of the kind that we'll get later on, and it does depend very strongly on how it's being written, I think. 595 00:37:17.579 --> 00:37:25.260 It's the ultimate polar opposite to the doctor, which is why there's nowhere else that can go, and it's the legacy of Liz Sledden. 596 00:37:25.320 --> 00:37:30.300 There's nowhere else they can go preempting the next season, but the direction they go in. 597 00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:30.719 Yeah. 598 00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:42.780 What I love about Leila is her character has evolved. which is partially due to the writing, but mainly due to Louise's performance and Tom Louise, I don't know if Tom was cooperating at this stage, was he? 599 00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:47.460 But something that is in evidence here, as was in evidence in horror of fang rock. 600 00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:51.059 Of course, Leila accepts science now and she tries to understand science. 601 00:37:51.119 --> 00:37:53.159 So, you know, when the doctor says Sonic time scan. 602 00:37:53.219 --> 00:37:59.099 She remembers it and she knows that's the problem and she expects everyone else to know it because you understand science, aren't you? 603 00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:05.460 But there's that great bit where she's very respectful of Mart Heiler's old traditions and talks about how important they are. 604 00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:07.019 She's great in that scene. 605 00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:10.800 She also understands psychology because when Jack says, what happened, Ma? 606 00:38:10.860 --> 00:38:11.519 Don't ask her that. 607 00:38:11.579 --> 00:38:13.800 It's because she does not want to remember that she's like this. 608 00:38:14.460 --> 00:38:17.280 She's really strong and clever in this. 609 00:38:17.340 --> 00:38:19.440 She keeps a foot in both her worlds. 610 00:38:19.500 --> 00:38:24.000 In her traditional world, which, of course, has got her to the point where she is today, you know. 611 00:38:24.179 --> 00:38:31.619 So she doesn't throw out the old ways, but as she says in horror of Fang Rock, there are better ways in science. 612 00:38:31.739 --> 00:38:33.119 Should we talk about Hyde? 613 00:38:33.179 --> 00:38:34.380 Yes, please. 614 00:38:34.440 --> 00:38:37.320 Hyde is series 7. 615 00:38:37.500 --> 00:38:46.320 It's Matt Smith and Jenna Coleman, and it's very, very closely a kind of retread of this, isn't it? 616 00:38:46.380 --> 00:38:47.940 It's set in the same period. 617 00:38:48.059 --> 00:38:50.760 It's set in a haunted priory. 618 00:38:50.820 --> 00:39:00.960 It has a female character who is kind of psychic and in touch with the alien threat, as we think it is. 619 00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:10.860 It has a whole section in Act 4, where they faff about and the TARD is kind of wasting time and finding out what's going on. 620 00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:14.519 And it does that sort of traditional horror thing. 621 00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:22.980 And I think it's very definitely a kind of lift or a retread of image of the fendile. 622 00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:24.960 See, I'd never picked up on that. 623 00:39:25.019 --> 00:39:29.400 Now that you come to mention it, yes, I do see it, but I had never picked up on that at the time. 624 00:39:29.460 --> 00:39:41.159 It even has a very sort of strong look, you know, it seems very much like it in the way that it looks and the way that it goes from straightforward horror into something a bit more science fiction later. 625 00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:45.239 And yeah, even the doctor and Clara just kind of walk into the house. 626 00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:46.139 It's like, hi. 627 00:39:46.199 --> 00:39:48.960 But all I can think of with that story. 628 00:39:49.019 --> 00:39:50.760 And I quite enjoyed that one. 629 00:39:50.820 --> 00:39:52.139 There were ones of series 7. 630 00:39:52.199 --> 00:39:53.519 I didn't enjoy, but I quite enjoyed that one. 631 00:39:53.579 --> 00:39:59.880 All I can think of that story is, of course, you have Jessica Rain, who would go on to be Verity Lambert in an adventure in space and time. 632 00:39:59.940 --> 00:40:08.159 You've got Doug Ray Scott, who was the 1st choice for Wolverine in the X-Men films, which he turned down and the role went to Hugh Jackman. 633 00:40:08.219 --> 00:40:09.659 Do you know what he turned it down to do? 634 00:40:09.719 --> 00:40:11.880 Mission Impossible 2. 635 00:40:12.059 --> 00:40:13.739 Oh, dear. 636 00:40:13.739 --> 00:40:15.480 He might have already been contracted to it. 637 00:40:15.539 --> 00:40:16.800 Let's give him the benefit of the doubt. 638 00:40:16.860 --> 00:40:19.679 No, he no, he was cast with Wolverine and got it. 639 00:40:19.739 --> 00:40:27.539 He was cast Wolverine and got the other offer and thought that would be a bigger, fairly imbued, the level of bitterness that we saw in Hyde. a very good performance. 640 00:40:27.599 --> 00:40:30.119 Can we talk finally about the fender? 641 00:40:30.179 --> 00:40:32.760 Oh, when it kind of finally arises because I actually... 642 00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:34.260 Can we talk about why it's got frills? 643 00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:37.679 Cheap frills and how veins. you mean the... 644 00:40:37.739 --> 00:40:39.000 Do you mean the fender lane? 645 00:40:39.059 --> 00:40:40.500 That's the word. 646 00:40:40.559 --> 00:40:40.860 Yes. 647 00:40:40.920 --> 00:40:46.920 It was actually John Nathan Turner who asked for the cheap frills to be able to because he said it reminded him of something. 648 00:40:47.820 --> 00:40:49.559 That he had it home. 649 00:40:49.619 --> 00:40:53.400 I think maybe he needs some cream then, if that reminds me of something. 650 00:40:53.460 --> 00:40:58.260 I know, really, without the paint and without, because a lot of that paint was added and without the neck pieces. 651 00:40:58.320 --> 00:41:02.940 That is just Doctor Who's response to anything that's remotely phallic, isn't it? 652 00:41:03.000 --> 00:41:03.659 Put a cloak on it. 653 00:41:03.719 --> 00:41:05.820 Yes, it'll be it'll be fine. 654 00:41:05.880 --> 00:41:07.980 The resolution isn't that great. 655 00:41:08.039 --> 00:41:10.980 And that's that's another flaw that this story has. 656 00:41:11.039 --> 00:41:17.760 So the moment that we discover that the fandoline are vulnerable to rock salt, we can just kind of kill them sort of fairly easily. 657 00:41:17.820 --> 00:41:23.880 Oh, they've got some horrible ace and gold coins moments, haven't we? 658 00:41:23.940 --> 00:41:25.980 Yeah, it's that's, I mean, that's not that great. 659 00:41:26.099 --> 00:41:36.119 And then when fear appears as the Fendal core, all she really does is sort of roll back and mix into various scenes, wave her arms around and then disappear. 660 00:41:36.179 --> 00:41:37.380 Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean? 661 00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:42.360 And if you look at her, she'll turn you into a fendoline. 662 00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:48.659 I actually think is the... they're so cute. you get in the action figure pack. 663 00:41:48.719 --> 00:41:56.880 You get a cute puppet fendoline, a full-sized fendoline and a Leila, and a skull on a plinth, and the skull is translucent. 664 00:41:56.940 --> 00:41:57.659 Wow. 665 00:41:57.719 --> 00:41:58.980 So you can die. 666 00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:00.960 I want a puppet fenderling so badly. 667 00:42:01.019 --> 00:42:18.480 They're so cute But, you know, they don't kind of do anything and then and then the doctor sort of talks and this is going to be a problem in a few stories this year where it's all just resolved by the doctor saying he's going to do something technical, then he explodes the whole kind of, uh, you know, priory and stuff and it's all over. 668 00:42:18.539 --> 00:42:22.380 And I think that that's a little bit too easy and a little bit too uninteresting. 669 00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:31.500 And the resolutions like this really should hinge on some kind of character moment or some kind of clever plot moment. 670 00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:35.699 But instead we just sort of talk our way out of it and there's a big explosion. 671 00:42:35.760 --> 00:42:39.480 Yeah, we've had that for the last 3 stories now. 672 00:42:39.539 --> 00:42:43.260 And possibly going back even further. 673 00:42:43.320 --> 00:42:45.719 Well, no, talent of waiting trying doesn't end with an explosion. 674 00:42:45.780 --> 00:42:52.860 But yeah, horror of fang rock, invisible enemy, and image of the fend, I'll all end with, oh, and then it exploded. 675 00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:54.360 Thankfully next week we won't have that. 676 00:42:54.420 --> 00:42:55.559 Sorry, Richard, did you? 677 00:42:55.679 --> 00:42:59.099 No, I was going to say, that's what Doctor Who always does. and that's... 678 00:42:59.099 --> 00:43:01.139 The big end. explosion. 679 00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:03.059 Well, also they're talking our way out of it. 680 00:43:03.119 --> 00:43:07.559 It's getting action figures are just, it's my dinner with Andre, action figure assortment. 681 00:43:07.619 --> 00:43:09.059 But I don't mean talk at each other. 682 00:43:09.119 --> 00:43:15.900 I don't mean cleverly talking our way out of it by doing some character thing or persuading someone of something or anything like that. 683 00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:20.460 I think it's just, we'll connect the bliz bloss to the biz bang bong and... 684 00:43:20.579 --> 00:43:21.599 That is what Doctor Who does. 685 00:43:21.659 --> 00:43:23.820 And you're right, it is a bit Adam West Batman. 686 00:43:23.880 --> 00:43:26.099 It's too crummy and just not very interesting. 687 00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:28.079 It's connected into Dick Grayson. 688 00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:28.679 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 689 00:43:28.739 --> 00:43:30.360 Reverse the polarity and... 690 00:43:30.360 --> 00:43:31.139 Dick Grayson. 691 00:43:31.199 --> 00:43:31.800 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 692 00:43:31.860 --> 00:43:35.219 That comes back to your cloaking suggestion, doesn't it? 693 00:43:35.280 --> 00:43:38.039 That if anything's a bit dick grossing, you just throw it. 694 00:43:38.099 --> 00:43:42.719 Do you think that's why Paul McGann refers to the chameleon circuit is the cloaking device of the TV movie? 695 00:43:42.900 --> 00:43:45.000 Let's try to throw it over the entire production. 696 00:43:45.059 --> 00:43:46.260 More of that later. 697 00:43:46.440 --> 00:43:49.139 I would just like to comment on the ending. 698 00:43:49.199 --> 00:43:58.260 We get some lovely, low, low key comedy between Tom and Louise about gendering canine and gendering machines and what have you, which pays off from an earlier scene. 699 00:43:58.320 --> 00:44:03.599 What I really love is Adam Colby, who's the last surviving member of the scientific expedition. 700 00:44:03.659 --> 00:44:06.539 The house has been exploded, so he's going to have a horrible time with the police. 701 00:44:06.599 --> 00:44:07.619 What does he do? 702 00:44:07.679 --> 00:44:10.380 Sits down for a cup of tea with Ma and Jack Tyler. 703 00:44:10.440 --> 00:44:11.400 Bless. 704 00:44:23.460 --> 00:44:30.179 Well done, listener. time to deactivate the time scanner, because that's all the time we have for the image of the Fendal. 705 00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:37.739 Don't forget, you can find us online at flatthroughentirety.com, flat through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on Twitter. 706 00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:42.539 We also now have 4 James Bond commentaries available on Bondfield. 707 00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:43.199 Oh, that was quick. 708 00:44:43.260 --> 00:44:50.159 Yes, for Dr. No, Goldfinger from Russia with Love and Thunderball, but not necessarily in that order. 709 00:44:51.059 --> 00:44:57.539 And you can find those on Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes and Bondfinger cast on Twitter. 710 00:44:57.539 --> 00:45:03.420 Until we see you next time for one of those, may all your x-rays not reveal a pentagram on the back of your skull. 711 00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:03.719 Good night. 712 00:45:03.780 --> 00:45:04.320 Good night. 713 00:45:04.380 --> 00:45:04.980 Good then. 714 00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:12.000 That was Flat Your Entirety with Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone. 715 00:45:12.059 --> 00:45:17.159 This episode, remotely Phallic, was recorded on the 27th of September 2015. 716 00:45:17.340 --> 00:45:19.739 The next episode will be released on November 15. 717 00:45:20.219 --> 00:45:28.019 Once again, Doctor Who is oddly prescient, predicting a woman with huge hair who sucks the life out of everything, 18 months before she became Prime Minister. 718 00:45:31.079 --> 00:45:37.440 You can find us online at flatthroughentirety.com, flight through entirety on face tits. 719 00:45:37.679 --> 00:45:39.780 That's staying in.