WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 16:00:59

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Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast coming to you live from the 5th

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planet.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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What's the Fendal's obsession with Ingrid Pitt, then?

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That's right.

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We are on Chris Boucher's final story for the series.

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It's image of the Fender.

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All the Island of Fandor, if you're the Doctor Who Appreciation

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Society with a bad phone line.

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This is an interesting one because I said last week that I didn't

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have a copy of The Invisible Enemy as a child.

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I did have a copy of Image of the Fendal as a child, but it's a

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bit weird because it was on the end of my copy of the 5 doctors.

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And also it was unlabelled.

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So I didn't know it was there until I was about 10 years old.

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Oh my god.

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I was older than 10.

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The 5 dogs just went out.

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I remember watching.

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I was younger than 10 when the 5 doctors, actually, when the 5

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doctors went out...

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No, I was alive.

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I was born in October 83.

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Now, I'm just going to ask Todd to open us up with a comment

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here.

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Don't say open us up.

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Oh, look, I've just bought my shopping list with me.

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I'm going to make a souffl today.

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It's called the Faux Hinchcliffe Home Souffle.

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So let's see what's on my shopping list.

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A Victorian country mansion, a cupboard, a glowing skull, a mad

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scientist, a woman with sixth sense, an invisible enemy.

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Oh, I'm supposed to have a Philip Hinchcliffe, but I can only come

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up with a Graham Williams, and it does say here on the packaging

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that I've got a Robert Holmes, but I believe that it's actually

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Anthony Reed.

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Oh, yes, and we'll also throw in Chris Boucher, writing for his

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companion, Elila.

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It's gonna be a roaring success.

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Well, actually, I think there's too many elements going on in this

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story to make it a roaring success.

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I actually find it's like a souffle that rises and you think, Well

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it looks great, it smells great, it's going to taste great.

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But it just, for me, isn't all there.

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Episode three in particular, guys, what did the doctor and Leila

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do?

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Nothing.

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All right, well, I'm feeling a bit peaky.

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I think I need to go outside and catch some rays of the sun, and I

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think I need a good steaming as well.

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Now, I wonder where can I go for that?

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Okay, so I'm going to take Todd's first point first there.

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And I do think that this feels like a hangover from the

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Hinchcliffe era.

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It's got so many elements that Hinchcliffe would love to use.

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It's even got Stargrove's estate, which was the house of Marcus

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and Lawrence Garman.

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Happiest couple.

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George and Ira Gushman.

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And Mar Tyler's cottage, who is Mrs. Pooh from...

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To the Manor.

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To the Manor.

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Oh, right.

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Oh, is she?

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I've never read that connection.

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I see something dark.

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See something, yes.

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That was just Penelope case.

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Her cottage is, of course, Lawrence Garman's hunting lodge.

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So, you know, the whole estate's being used again.

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But I'm going to go for something very contentious here.

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I think the Williams era does horror far, far better than the

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Hinchcliffe era.

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It does moody very, very well, doesn't it?

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And on that point, I'd just like to know what Muck Jagger's home

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and contents insurance must be now because isn't that 2 years in a

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row, the place is burnt down?

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I think his mum was living there.

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Yeah, he was.

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His mum was living in the 1st one.

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What you and Todd haven't identified is the other commonality

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which is that the villain isn't just, you know, like a crazy

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murderous oyster or a giant prawn.

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There's a seafood theme, isn't there?

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Yes, there is.

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It's an evil from the dawn of time.

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It's, you know, death, you know, turned into a monster.

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It's David Tennant's prop from his Hamlet.

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It's love crafty.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Because we don't mention Lovecraft enough.

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It is pure Lovecraft stuff.

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It's one of the Titans.

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Yes, yes.

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So this is beautiful.

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This, can we just say, isn't it nice?

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Where does this story come from?

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Propped up in the middle of the season?

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Like a lovely nasturtium amongst all the toadstools.

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It's really, it might not smell good, but it got a lot of colour

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and movement.

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So why do you say that it's done better in the Williams era than

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it was by Hinchcliffe?

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Well, I've had to think a lot about that.

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And I think it comes back to something we were constantly saying

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about Hinchcliffe.

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With Hinchcliffe, we don't care about supporting characters.

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Yeah.

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Where there might be one story we care about, like Vira or

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Lawrence Scarman or Guy Crayford.

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You know, you do feel...

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I didn't care about Guy Crowford.

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Giuliano and his friend can never remember it.

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Giuliano and Marco.

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Yeah.

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Whereas in this, you've got Adam Colby, you've got Max Stale

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you've got Dr. Fendleman, you've got Mar Tyler, you've got Jack

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Tyler.

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They are all...

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Interestingly, they're all interestingly drawn characters.

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Even the security guard Mitchell who gets killed in the kitchen.

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He only gets about 5 lines, but they really cement his character

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as his job's worth security.

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That's Bouchung.

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Is that voucher, though, because he gave us robots of dare.

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I think it is voucher.

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But I also think that the horror in this is really well offset by

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the comedy.

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And robots have had some comedic moments, but it didn't have as

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much comedy as this, but the comedy here doesn't undermine the

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horror that we're facing.

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And a big part of that is the character of Adam Colby.

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He's so funny.

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He's so funny.

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He's set up to not die, right from the beginning, you can't not

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like him.

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And George Spenton Foster, the director, really gets that these

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things are British character actors standing around on a set

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talking out to each other.

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Yes.

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That's when Doctor Who's at its best.

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So.

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Yeah, and I mean, something that a lot of people credit as a

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source for this is, of course, Quace Madison, the Pitt, which have

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the notion of ancient aliens coming to Earth and influencing

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humankind indirectly.

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But I think another very strong influence, also by Nigel Neil, is

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the stone tape.

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Oh, I've heard of this.

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Tell us about this.

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So the stone tape was a telemovie with Jane Asher.

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Oh, she's lovely.

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Lovely cakes.

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The concept is you have a group of scientists.

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A group of scientists go to a haunted castle.

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And in this story, Fendelman says the woods are meant to be

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haunted.

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A group of scientists go to a haunted castle because one of the

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scientists has a theory that there's no such thing as ghosts.

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What happens is psychic impressions are recorded onto a building.

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And that's why it's called the stone tape because he's trying to

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pretty much discover steady state hard drives.

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They can hear this eerie scream and what have you.

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And I won't spoil the twist in the end, but the scream is not what

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they were expecting it to be.

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It's the kind of tone that films like paranormal activity try to

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capture.

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But I don't think they capture it anywhere near as well.

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This is 1972 production.

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Is it good?

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It's very good.

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It's very good.

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It sounds sapphire and steelish.

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It's a bit sapphire and steel is to bit Doctor Who, it's a bit

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equator mass.

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Is it on oneself tube?

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It might be on one self-tube?

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I'll look for it.

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I'll put a link.

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I see that.

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I was thinking, I really liked that you say that because I was

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actually thinking it was Chris Belcher just showing us how utterly

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clever he really is, and dragging out the nasal juices of all the

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nonsense that we've had with Von Danniken.

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We talked about mid times before the chariots of the gods and also

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um, lampooning the Desmomoris stuff with, um, you know, explaining

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out, Desmomoris is really big with a naked ape at the time, that

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book.

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Do remember that one?

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What was that thing, man watching?

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No, what was it called?

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Yeah, yep, yep, yep.

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He was on Parkinson all the time when we were kids and just

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talking about, you know, of how our ancestors ancestors survived

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through complex social systems and through humour and through

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exchange.

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But Chris Boucher just throws all of that up in the air and says

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well, it could just be this version, and this makes just as much

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sense.

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I think he's really taking a piss out of the 70s with this.

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It's really nicely underplayed, but the understory of it has

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gravitas and has a whole weight to it.

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But unlike bob and day.

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If you don't need to throw them all up in the air and point the

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ideas, you can just suggest that they're there and let the

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audience ruminate on that while the actors go about being dazzling

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and charming and in the place of style, Max style.

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Really menacing.

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Some really nice counterpoints.

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And of course, want to vent them, a mother cumberbatch is just

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delightful.

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And obviously that Pilates was big in the 70s as well because she

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manages to get herself right up off the floor in all her Ingrid

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Pippa slap later on in the story, doesn't it?

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Yeah, she must have great abs.

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I tell you.

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Well, it's all fun.

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Lana from Archer, isn't she?

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Her great abs are all from supporting her 2 wonderful wigs in this

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story.

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Do you know why she's wearing that dark wig?

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I do, but do tell us?

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No, no, you're tourist is not my story.

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Okay.

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The reason she is wearing that dark wig is because she is

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naturally blonde, as we saw... as we saw in UFO.

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And Gene Rock in the faceless ones.

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And as we'll later see in time of the run, yeah.

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Did you realise her real hair?

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Her 3 Doctor Who stories are 1967, 1977 and 1987.

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And 2 of them have Donald Pickering in them.

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Two of them have...

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Yes, exactly.

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But the reason she has that wig is that Graham Williams said no

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one would take a pretty blonde scientist seriously will have to

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make you a brunette.

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Oh, God.

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Do you think he'd been talking to Barry Letts and Terence Dixon?

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about women scientists with blonde hair?

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So, you know, well done, Graham, for having speaking women roles

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in the last 3 stories?

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For a change.

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There are more girls, yeah.

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Yeah, if he had have said, you know what, we had a blonde woman 2

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stories ago and she was our main female guest cast.

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That's still a bit ropey, but you'd kind of go, Adelaide, yeah.

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You know, yeah, there's no danger to anyone that they'll confuse.

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Wait, why is Adelaide back?

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Yeah, you know, you're not going to confuse Annette Woodlet with

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Wanda Bentham.

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I think just in case we weren't sure, the 70s really was the 70s

255
00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:03.480
long ago.

256
00:11:03.539 --> 00:11:07.259
But thankfully, it doesn't spoil the fact that she is an excellent

257
00:11:07.259 --> 00:11:11.159
character and portrayed so well and the humanity in her

258
00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:13.559
performance is so touching.

259
00:11:13.620 --> 00:11:16.080
And when she starts to freak out about what's happening to her.

260
00:11:16.139 --> 00:11:17.399
Freaking eight.

261
00:11:17.460 --> 00:11:21.059
You know, compared to Mac Style, who knows what's going on or

262
00:11:21.059 --> 00:11:23.700
thinks he does, and is looking forward to the power of it.

263
00:11:24.059 --> 00:11:26.700
She doesn't want any of that power.

264
00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:29.220
She knows what's happening to her and she doesn't want it.

265
00:11:29.220 --> 00:11:32.399
And it's so human and it makes it so sad what happens to her in

266
00:11:32.399 --> 00:11:32.639
the end.

267
00:11:32.700 --> 00:11:35.399
In fact, that's one of the things that I don't like about this.

268
00:11:35.460 --> 00:11:36.240
There are a few.

269
00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:39.240
I think the story has a few flaws, but I think maybe chief among

270
00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:41.460
them is the way that Wanda Anthem is treated.

271
00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:44.460
And it makes style is a great cartoon villain.

272
00:11:44.519 --> 00:11:46.620
And I think he's a terrific actor.

273
00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:48.779
You know, he's sort of terribly handsome and all that sort of

274
00:11:48.779 --> 00:11:49.019
thing.

275
00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:54.299
But he, like, he's a creeper.

276
00:11:54.360 --> 00:11:54.899
Do you know what I mean?

277
00:11:54.960 --> 00:11:56.820
He drugs women and chains them up.

278
00:11:56.879 --> 00:11:59.519
It's like watching the Cosby show in White Beach.

279
00:11:59.580 --> 00:12:00.240
It really is.

280
00:12:00.299 --> 00:12:02.159
He's horrible.

281
00:12:02.220 --> 00:12:05.519
That's not the episode.

282
00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:12.000
Well, okay, but there are other...

283
00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:14.100
Other episode titles are available.

284
00:12:14.159 --> 00:12:16.919
How about blank sections for cow inserts?

285
00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:22.559
Did you notice in that, sorry to do this to Segway, but this has a

286
00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:25.980
lot of nice OB, and there's a lot of, the extra footage, if you've

287
00:12:25.980 --> 00:12:29.940
watched it on the DVDs, there are of Leila, raising her kneecaps

288
00:12:29.940 --> 00:12:33.539
off because this is for general listening in cow fields, in

289
00:12:33.539 --> 00:12:36.000
Huddersstock, or wherever she is, Huddersfield, or whatever.

290
00:12:36.059 --> 00:12:39.299
And Tom just mooning about, but there's a lot of points where

291
00:12:39.299 --> 00:12:41.940
they're just standing about waiting for a cow to walk past.

292
00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:44.940
So and there is actually a line in the camera scripts, blank

293
00:12:44.940 --> 00:12:46.620
sections for cow inserts.

294
00:12:47.220 --> 00:12:49.500
I just wish we'd had more of that.

295
00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:54.659
Now, something else Todd has said in his little bubble is, of

296
00:12:54.659 --> 00:12:57.000
course, that the doctor and Leila do very little in this story.

297
00:12:57.059 --> 00:13:00.899
I do find myself very surprised, of course, because the doctor and

298
00:13:00.899 --> 00:13:03.960
Leila have very little bearing in the plot in the 1st 2 episodes.

299
00:13:04.019 --> 00:13:05.100
That's why it's good.

300
00:13:05.159 --> 00:13:09.059
And then in the 3rd episode, they bugger off in the TARDIS to go

301
00:13:09.059 --> 00:13:11.580
try and check out the 5th planet and discover it's in a time loop

302
00:13:11.580 --> 00:13:12.000
and come back.

303
00:13:12.059 --> 00:13:15.480
So the doctor and Leila don't really do anything useful within the

304
00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:17.279
plot until halfway through episode three.

305
00:13:17.340 --> 00:13:19.860
And yet this is still so much better than when that happens with

306
00:13:19.860 --> 00:13:20.639
Colin Baker.

307
00:13:20.700 --> 00:13:22.259
But why is that?

308
00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:23.759
Not to go forward, but to go back.

309
00:13:23.820 --> 00:13:26.879
Do you know, sorry, do you know why I feel that's really great is

310
00:13:26.879 --> 00:13:31.440
because it hearkens back to Billy and Barbara and Susan and Ian

311
00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:35.519
that we are not organic to the plot, we've jumped in, and these

312
00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:37.740
things, terrible things are going to happen, whether we were here

313
00:13:37.740 --> 00:13:38.220
or not.

314
00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:40.799
And it's real, we don't know.

315
00:13:40.860 --> 00:13:41.700
It's touch and go.

316
00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:44.940
I really don't like it when the story is integral to the doctor

317
00:13:44.940 --> 00:13:47.639
and the doctor's movements and my least favourite doctor whose

318
00:13:47.639 --> 00:13:49.500
stories are when it's about the doctor.

319
00:13:49.559 --> 00:13:51.600
You magician's apprentices.

320
00:13:51.659 --> 00:13:52.080
Exactly.

321
00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:54.539
Q episode one of season 9 of the new series.

322
00:13:54.659 --> 00:13:57.419
I just find when it's about the doctor, it's really tedious.

323
00:13:57.480 --> 00:14:01.620
The more he's removed from it, the more the threat is tangible.

324
00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:03.419
Who lets him out of the cupboard?

325
00:14:03.539 --> 00:14:05.820
It's cut from the scene now.

326
00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:08.039
It was, I think it was Theo, do you remember?

327
00:14:08.100 --> 00:14:09.419
No.

328
00:14:09.419 --> 00:14:10.440
Theo goes looking for him.

329
00:14:10.500 --> 00:14:12.120
Fear goes looking for him.

330
00:14:12.120 --> 00:14:14.279
I don't think he's let out. think it's Max?

331
00:14:14.340 --> 00:14:16.980
I think it's Max because Theo goes looking for him and then

332
00:14:16.980 --> 00:14:18.779
stumbles across the Sonic Time scanner.

333
00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:21.000
When she's still in that closet.

334
00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:27.120
When she is in the Sonic Times scanner, Max comes in and says

335
00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:30.480
something to the she says I was looking for that man and Max says

336
00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:30.960
he's gone.

337
00:14:31.019 --> 00:14:34.559
How does he know he's, because Max has already had the

338
00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:36.960
conversation, I'm the doctor can't be any danger to our plans.

339
00:14:37.019 --> 00:14:37.980
So he lets him know.

340
00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:39.480
So why does he want to let him go though?

341
00:14:39.539 --> 00:14:41.639
Because he can't be any danger to our plans?

342
00:14:41.700 --> 00:14:42.600
Why not?

343
00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:45.120
If he's the thing is, if he's let go and he's running around and

344
00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:48.299
he gets caught again, that's even more of a distraction for Max to

345
00:14:48.299 --> 00:14:49.200
then get on with what he's doing.

346
00:14:49.259 --> 00:14:50.759
That's logical, yeah.

347
00:14:50.820 --> 00:14:53.639
I actually just thought that he's kicking the door and all of that

348
00:14:53.639 --> 00:14:56.279
sort of thing just sort of eventually dislodges it.

349
00:14:56.340 --> 00:14:59.220
I mean, it's a sort of gag about the fact that you hear the lock

350
00:14:59.220 --> 00:15:02.519
go, you know, and suddenly he can get out.

351
00:15:02.580 --> 00:15:06.299
I wasn't reading it as someone has had secretly let him out.

352
00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:07.799
Fair enough.

353
00:15:07.860 --> 00:15:10.139
And there are jokes at his expense there.

354
00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:10.740
Isn't there?

355
00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:14.580
We segue from Leila talking about his great wisdom and a kind of

356
00:15:14.580 --> 00:15:18.840
gentleness. segue to him locked in a cupboard, kicking the door

357
00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:21.360
furiously, you know, like a giant idiot.

358
00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:24.779
The episode 3 thing, I think, is a bit of a problem.

359
00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:27.779
And I think it's something that will come up again with stones of

360
00:15:27.779 --> 00:15:33.179
blood where we go for a Gothic horror thing and then we segue into

361
00:15:33.179 --> 00:15:36.000
a science fiction thing as if we kind of bottle out at the last

362
00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:36.480
moment.

363
00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:40.500
And here, I think a lot of effort and energy is spent in

364
00:15:40.500 --> 00:15:42.779
explaining the Fendal.

365
00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:44.759
So the Fandali's death itself.

366
00:15:44.820 --> 00:15:45.779
It eats death.

367
00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:50.399
You know, like, it is a horror from, you know, the prehistory of

368
00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:50.940
the universe.

369
00:15:51.059 --> 00:15:56.759
But we spend episode 3 establishing that it comes from the 5th

370
00:15:56.759 --> 00:16:00.360
planet, which is the planet between Mars and Jupiter that breaks

371
00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:04.080
up to form the asteroid belt, and that the time lords destroyed it

372
00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:05.879
or time looped it or whatever the hell they did.

373
00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:07.620
How can it be an asteroid?

374
00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:12.360
No, no, but I mean, I think that that is what they say. that is

375
00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:12.659
the question.

376
00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:13.440
It's 2 things at once.

377
00:16:13.500 --> 00:16:17.279
And then you get the giant that big bit of dialogue between Colby

378
00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:20.340
and the doctor talking about evolution taking a blind alley on the

379
00:16:20.340 --> 00:16:23.159
5th planet and there's this and all of these sorts of things.

380
00:16:23.220 --> 00:16:24.240
Which is entirely plausible.

381
00:16:24.299 --> 00:16:27.840
But he offers all of these theories and then says, oh, it could

382
00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:29.100
just be one giant coincidence.

383
00:16:29.220 --> 00:16:30.059
Do you know what I mean?

384
00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:33.779
That's what I mean about Boucher taking the Mickey out of the

385
00:16:33.779 --> 00:16:36.240
entire 70s conspiracy stuff.

386
00:16:36.299 --> 00:16:36.840
Yeah, yeah.

387
00:16:36.899 --> 00:16:40.259
But it seems like wasted time.

388
00:16:40.740 --> 00:16:43.200
But is that how people would discuss it?

389
00:16:43.259 --> 00:16:44.820
I just think it's more naturalistic.

390
00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:48.059
It gives so much flesh to these characters that I really am

391
00:16:48.059 --> 00:16:48.840
interested.

392
00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:52.679
And no one dies not to preempt if you haven't seen it, do listener

393
00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:57.779
but no one dies as horridly as Fendelman himself in the final

394
00:16:57.779 --> 00:16:58.259
scenes.

395
00:16:58.320 --> 00:16:59.399
He's not necessarily bad.

396
00:16:59.460 --> 00:17:02.879
He's just narcissistic and a bit, you know, monodirectional and

397
00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:03.480
linear.

398
00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:07.019
In fact, I actually think the story tries to make us think he's

399
00:17:07.019 --> 00:17:09.539
the villain initially because he has the accent.

400
00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:10.859
He's called Fendelman.

401
00:17:10.980 --> 00:17:11.700
You doing the accent?

402
00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:13.980
Yeah, same doings, the accent, Adam.

403
00:17:14.099 --> 00:17:15.539
He's got moustache.

404
00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:18.960
Yeah, he's got the giant Dennis Lil moustache.

405
00:17:19.019 --> 00:17:21.240
The trademark, Dennis Lil Moustache.

406
00:17:21.299 --> 00:17:23.039
He's in survivors.

407
00:17:23.099 --> 00:17:27.119
I don't know if you've seen Survivors, but Survivors is the 70s

408
00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:30.480
Terry Nation thing where everyone's wiped out by a virus except

409
00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:33.660
for a bunch of white middle class people in England.

410
00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:38.220
In about episode 4 or 5 of the 1st season of Survivors.

411
00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:42.779
They come across a colony of people, which is run by Dennis Lil

412
00:17:42.779 --> 00:17:47.640
and Dennis Lil has decided to repopulate the entire Earth single

413
00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:48.180
handedly.

414
00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:51.900
So he lives in a colony with a whole bunch of women whom he's

415
00:17:51.900 --> 00:17:52.920
having sex with and stuff.

416
00:17:52.980 --> 00:17:56.880
And then later they get him back and sort of rehabilitate him so

417
00:17:56.880 --> 00:18:00.900
that he can take over when Watt's his face from Warriors of the

418
00:18:00.900 --> 00:18:04.799
Deep leaves the show and he has to Ingrid it.

419
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:06.960
And he has to take over as the lead of the show.

420
00:18:07.019 --> 00:18:08.579
Why am I saying all of this?

421
00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:10.680
I'm sure I was thinking about something.

422
00:18:10.740 --> 00:18:11.940
I think I was distracted.

423
00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:14.039
I was distracted by Dennisville's moustache.

424
00:18:14.099 --> 00:18:17.160
So survivors is kind of like The Walking Dead without zombies.

425
00:18:17.220 --> 00:18:18.900
Otherwise known as the Walking Dead series 2.

426
00:18:19.079 --> 00:18:20.819
Well, it's kind of the walking.

427
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:22.319
Yeah, in fact, it is a lot like that.

428
00:18:22.380 --> 00:18:25.019
They raise, they have a farm, you know, they raise things.

429
00:18:25.079 --> 00:18:26.160
There's no real tension.

430
00:18:26.220 --> 00:18:27.240
Are they Amish?

431
00:18:27.299 --> 00:18:27.900
No.

432
00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:30.180
No, it's not a very good series.

433
00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:31.559
I haven't watched it.

434
00:18:31.619 --> 00:18:33.720
No, no, I'm scared of zombies.

435
00:18:33.779 --> 00:18:34.859
I can't watch Walking Dead too.

436
00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:41.700
So Dennis Lil is presented as our villain, but then, of course

437
00:18:41.700 --> 00:18:43.079
style takes over.

438
00:18:43.079 --> 00:18:46.980
And he's Boaz from Day of the Daleks.

439
00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:49.079
Yes, he's Scott Fredericks.

440
00:18:49.140 --> 00:18:49.980
Feather Boers.

441
00:18:50.039 --> 00:18:51.839
And as we called him.

442
00:18:51.900 --> 00:18:54.660
And he's rather handsome, it has to be said.

443
00:18:54.720 --> 00:18:58.200
Malcolm McDowell's psycho stab you in the back of the head with a

444
00:18:58.200 --> 00:18:59.339
knitting needle handsome way.

445
00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:01.259
That's off my Friday night.

446
00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:08.519
He's Carnell in Blake 7 in the episode of Blake 7 called Weapon

447
00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:13.079
which is by Chris Boucher, and he plays a psycho strategist who's

448
00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:15.299
able to predict other people's behaviour.

449
00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:18.420
And I believe it's also directed by George Spenton Foster.

450
00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:21.539
Well, that's why I spent in Foster doesn't direct again, does he?

451
00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:23.039
Does he direct again here, please?

452
00:19:23.099 --> 00:19:24.539
He's back on for Ryboss operation.

453
00:19:24.660 --> 00:19:27.539
That's right, but then after that, he's Blake 7.

454
00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:27.900
Yeah.

455
00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:32.940
So Carnell is brought back by Chris Boucher to be in the Caldor

456
00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:34.559
City audios, remember?

457
00:19:34.619 --> 00:19:38.039
He's a character in the big Finnish audios that are sort of

458
00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:39.660
sequels to Robots of Death.

459
00:19:40.019 --> 00:19:42.900
So it's all a rich tapestry, really.

460
00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:46.500
It is a lovely, rich bouillabaise, really, isn't it?

461
00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:49.140
Back onto the theme.

462
00:19:49.259 --> 00:19:52.440
Food theme of the... seafood.

463
00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:53.519
Hmm.

464
00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:56.880
Now, despite the fact that the doctor and Leila don't get much to

465
00:19:56.880 --> 00:20:01.140
do in the first two episodes, the doctor and Leila, for the 1st

466
00:20:01.140 --> 00:20:04.319
one, are the subject of the 1st 2 cliffhangers.

467
00:20:04.380 --> 00:20:08.579
And the 1st cliffhanger is completely mental because it's just...

468
00:20:08.579 --> 00:20:11.880
It seems to just have half its footage cut out of it.

469
00:20:11.940 --> 00:20:12.660
And it does.

470
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:15.660
It does, yeah, because Tom in the Woods, we're meant to see him

471
00:20:15.660 --> 00:20:16.980
slowly becoming stuck.

472
00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:20.700
Instead, he's walking along, we cut to Leila, poking ahead around

473
00:20:20.700 --> 00:20:22.680
a door or not as we discover next week.

474
00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:24.539
Thank you, perils of Pauline style.

475
00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:25.980
It's a real sheet.

476
00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:26.400
Yes, it is.

477
00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:30.240
But then we cut back to the doctor just standing there and

478
00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:31.259
completely stock still.

479
00:20:31.319 --> 00:20:34.079
And that would work if when the hiker had been attacked.

480
00:20:34.140 --> 00:20:36.960
He'd just been standing there stock still, but instead he was

481
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:37.440
screaming.

482
00:20:37.500 --> 00:20:39.059
So it's kind...

483
00:20:39.059 --> 00:20:43.500
As just a cliffhanger, if you just watch it, it's absolutely fine

484
00:20:43.500 --> 00:20:45.240
but the buildup comes out of nowhere.

485
00:20:45.299 --> 00:20:48.720
The 2nd cliffhanger also comes out of nowhere, but it's a great

486
00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:50.099
what the hell moment.

487
00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:51.480
Remind me.

488
00:20:51.539 --> 00:20:53.819
It's the doctor putting his hand on the skull.

489
00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:58.440
And we have heard a reference that it's like the skull was full of

490
00:20:58.440 --> 00:20:59.039
energy.

491
00:20:59.099 --> 00:21:02.579
But instead of being told, if you touch the skull, it will drain

492
00:21:02.579 --> 00:21:05.759
your life energy, we kind of realise when the doctor puts his hand

493
00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:10.380
on it, and it hangs on that moment longer than usual, which has a

494
00:21:10.380 --> 00:21:10.920
few effects.

495
00:21:10.980 --> 00:21:12.480
First of all, it gives us time to twig.

496
00:21:12.539 --> 00:21:14.819
That's how it absorbs energy through touch.

497
00:21:14.940 --> 00:21:19.920
But 2nd of all, and this would become increasingly rarer as Tom's

498
00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:22.440
attitude to the role became bigger and bigger and bigger, as we'll

499
00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:25.440
see in the next few series, we see the doctor genuinely in pain

500
00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:27.539
and genuinely terrified by what's happening.

501
00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:30.599
Well, that was a feature of the Hingecliffia as well.

502
00:21:30.660 --> 00:21:34.500
Tom and Payne is a very frequent thing and that goes away as he

503
00:21:34.500 --> 00:21:36.000
becomes kind of inviolate.

504
00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:37.019
Yeah.

505
00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:42.119
And it does give us a great, a great reprise and a great solution

506
00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:45.480
where Leila kicks the chair out from under him and he lands on top

507
00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:45.900
of her.

508
00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:48.960
And yeah, in any other show, that'd be a moment of sexual

509
00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:49.559
tension.

510
00:21:49.619 --> 00:21:52.380
But in this, it's Leila says, you are very heavy.

511
00:21:53.460 --> 00:21:56.279
Hey, did I did I just save your life?

512
00:21:56.339 --> 00:21:57.240
It's so cute.

513
00:21:57.299 --> 00:21:58.319
It's great.

514
00:21:58.380 --> 00:22:01.380
Well, it's nice to have Leila written by Chris Boucher again.

515
00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:02.339
He gets her.

516
00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:03.420
She's not an idiot.

517
00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:04.079
She's different.

518
00:22:04.140 --> 00:22:05.400
Do you know what I mean?

519
00:22:05.460 --> 00:22:08.339
Do they throw those lines in themselves in rehearsal?

520
00:22:08.700 --> 00:22:10.380
Quite possibly.

521
00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:14.640
But at the same time, Chris Boucher is just really, really, really

522
00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:15.240
good with character.

523
00:22:15.299 --> 00:22:18.839
And funny dialogue and particularly bitchy dialogue between

524
00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:22.380
characters who aren't getting on, you know, he's really good.

525
00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:24.240
Mother Tyler, the highlight.

526
00:22:24.299 --> 00:22:25.019
I was really missing.

527
00:22:25.019 --> 00:22:27.599
I'm expecting Sylvia Coleridge at any moment.

528
00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:29.339
She got busting in painting.

529
00:22:30.180 --> 00:22:33.900
But there's, you don't need Amelia Ducar because you have...

530
00:22:33.900 --> 00:22:34.740
You have Martai?

531
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:35.940
You have Bonnie Tyler, yeah.

532
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:36.180
Yeah.

533
00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:38.099
No, she's actually Martha Tyler.

534
00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:43.319
So she's a weird combination of the 1st 2 companions of the new

535
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:43.559
series.

536
00:22:43.619 --> 00:22:47.279
Does Rose Tyler have an Uncle Jack, possibly?

537
00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:48.480
Uncle Jack Tyler.

538
00:22:48.539 --> 00:22:50.339
We may never know.

539
00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:54.960
Something which this story is kind of missing is Dudley Simpson.

540
00:22:55.019 --> 00:22:57.960
The 1st 2 episodes only have 6 minutes of music between them.

541
00:22:58.140 --> 00:22:59.579
It's very Graham Williams.

542
00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:02.700
We haven't mentioned how the scoring has changed so much. since.

543
00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:07.619
You know, we had all that meticulous and quite expensive use of

544
00:23:07.619 --> 00:23:12.660
scoring directly for scenes that culminated, of course, in seeing

545
00:23:12.660 --> 00:23:17.279
Dudley on stage at the old Bournbush in Weng Chaiang.

546
00:23:17.339 --> 00:23:19.799
But now, yeah, it's very sparse, isn't it?

547
00:23:19.859 --> 00:23:21.119
And it's mostly Foley.

548
00:23:21.180 --> 00:23:23.940
It's Mo, he's going back to the sound effects people, so you get

549
00:23:23.940 --> 00:23:26.880
the woo-woo noise of the washing machine fend doll maker.

550
00:23:26.940 --> 00:23:28.980
And I like it for that.

551
00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:30.960
I like that the score is held off.

552
00:23:31.019 --> 00:23:33.599
Do you know, I actually think the Dudley has a pretty good year

553
00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:35.759
this year, and he writes some formatic stuff.

554
00:23:35.819 --> 00:23:38.339
I even think that he's OK in underworld.

555
00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:41.640
I think he's really good in sun makers.

556
00:23:41.819 --> 00:23:45.900
I think this is the season where the fourth doctor's theme really

557
00:23:45.900 --> 00:23:51.539
becomes a thing, you know, like, we got...

558
00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:55.500
But I think it really comes to the fore, I think, in season 16 and

559
00:23:55.500 --> 00:23:58.079
17, but it's used here more often.

560
00:23:58.140 --> 00:24:00.420
I think he does a pretty good job.

561
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:04.680
I have to agree with you, really, especially with Underworld, which

562
00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:06.660
we'll talk about in a couple of weeks time.

563
00:24:06.839 --> 00:24:11.099
But where I think the music is so good here is because it's so

564
00:24:11.099 --> 00:24:15.720
sparse at the beginning, that emphasises the horror and the

565
00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:19.799
eeriness of the situation, because, you know, say brain of Morbius

566
00:24:19.799 --> 00:24:24.240
really, it's okay to be scared because you've got bum, bum, bum

567
00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:25.680
bum, bum, all the way through.

568
00:24:25.740 --> 00:24:30.839
Whereas here, the music doesn't really start to take hold until

569
00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:32.759
fear transforms into the fendoline.

570
00:24:32.819 --> 00:24:35.759
And even then, it's sort of magical and I dream of genie, but with

571
00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:37.559
a really sinister undercurrent.

572
00:24:37.619 --> 00:24:40.799
It's the music from the Blake 7 episode duel.

573
00:24:40.859 --> 00:24:43.019
Remember that, don't you think?

574
00:24:43.079 --> 00:24:48.720
It's that ethereal sort of female voice thing when Thea does her

575
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:52.920
sort of raising up and turning into a sort of gold helga sort of

576
00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:53.700
thing.

577
00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:55.980
I am going to go backwards in the story just for a moment.

578
00:24:56.039 --> 00:24:58.500
And this is just about a personal experience I had with this

579
00:24:58.500 --> 00:24:58.799
story.

580
00:24:58.859 --> 00:25:01.980
As I mentioned earlier, it was on the end of a tape which had the

581
00:25:01.980 --> 00:25:02.640
5 doctors.

582
00:25:02.700 --> 00:25:04.619
It wasn't written on the label, so I didn't know it was there for

583
00:25:04.619 --> 00:25:04.980
ages.

584
00:25:05.099 --> 00:25:07.500
I just discovered it late one night on the tape.

585
00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:10.440
I let the 5 doctors credits run through and sort of halfway

586
00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:13.200
through the credits, it cut to image of the fend up.

587
00:25:13.259 --> 00:25:17.640
Now, of course this was in the era of videotape, dear listeners.

588
00:25:17.700 --> 00:25:21.299
I'm sure many of you would remember that It's much like cuniform

589
00:25:21.299 --> 00:25:24.779
tablets, only it doesn't quite have the durability.

590
00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:27.420
Well, this is a very good point.

591
00:25:27.480 --> 00:25:30.660
And something you had to use to do with videotapes was adjust the

592
00:25:30.660 --> 00:25:31.140
tracking.

593
00:25:31.319 --> 00:25:33.539
Do you remember adjusting tracking?

594
00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:34.380
Yes.

595
00:25:35.339 --> 00:25:39.480
Yeah, and of course, if there was any sort of, say, physical dust

596
00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:42.059
or a blemish on the tape.

597
00:25:42.119 --> 00:25:44.400
If a bird flew overhand.

598
00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:45.480
Yeah, that's right.

599
00:25:45.539 --> 00:25:48.480
It could actually mess up the heads, which were playing the tape

600
00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:52.140
which is similar to, and I'm not trying to take the Mick here, but

601
00:25:52.140 --> 00:25:54.839
if there's those of you out here who've never used videotape.

602
00:25:54.900 --> 00:25:57.900
It would be similar to a smudge on a DVD disrupting the laser.

603
00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:01.200
But instead of just stopping, it could actually then damage the

604
00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:01.799
heads itself.

605
00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:04.799
And they would like plough their way through.

606
00:26:04.859 --> 00:26:07.559
I had videotapes that the heads would just chew their way

607
00:26:07.559 --> 00:26:08.160
through.

608
00:26:08.220 --> 00:26:08.880
Yeah, absolutely.

609
00:26:08.940 --> 00:26:13.920
Well, there was some kind of some kind, there was something stuck

610
00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:16.140
to a particular point in the tape.

611
00:26:16.200 --> 00:26:20.759
And if you played it at normal speed through that scene, uh, it

612
00:26:20.759 --> 00:26:22.200
would become a snowstorm.

613
00:26:22.259 --> 00:26:23.940
You have to clean your videotape heads with alcohol.

614
00:26:24.059 --> 00:26:27.599
If you fast forwarded through that scene, it was absolutely fine.

615
00:26:28.859 --> 00:26:33.779
The scene in question was when they are discussing how the

616
00:26:33.779 --> 00:26:37.140
pentagram got on the skull and it's really eerie and it's lighting

617
00:26:37.140 --> 00:26:37.920
their faces up.

618
00:26:37.980 --> 00:26:40.859
So when I'm watching that as a kid, as they're discussing how this

619
00:26:40.859 --> 00:26:44.640
thing can absorb your energy, the screen turns into static.

620
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:49.500
And there's all this discussion and I'm watching this at about one

621
00:26:49.500 --> 00:26:53.099
AM during the school holidays by myself.

622
00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:55.019
And I'm terrified for 2 things.

623
00:26:55.079 --> 00:26:56.880
One, the story is terrifying too.

624
00:26:56.940 --> 00:26:59.759
Oh, I've got to get the video head cleaning tape.

625
00:27:00.660 --> 00:27:02.940
There are lots of indications.

626
00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:05.880
I don't know if you've done any history at school at that stage

627
00:27:05.880 --> 00:27:09.839
when you saw it, but I like that the Fendal in its human form

628
00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:16.740
looks like one of the bull leaping priestesses of Nossos of Troy.

629
00:27:17.099 --> 00:27:18.420
Really?

630
00:27:18.420 --> 00:27:19.079
Did they?

631
00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:21.539
They painted giant eyes on their eyelids.

632
00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:25.019
I was thinking, put the hair and the dress she's wearing is really

633
00:27:25.019 --> 00:27:27.299
harking back again to Time Monster, if you like the same

634
00:27:27.299 --> 00:27:28.200
antecedents.

635
00:27:28.259 --> 00:27:30.960
Was that why you were making cracks about Ingrid Pitt earlier?

636
00:27:31.019 --> 00:27:31.980
I was, yes.

637
00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:32.880
It's the same look.

638
00:27:32.940 --> 00:27:35.460
But without the painted eyelids.

639
00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:40.319
But the notion that the Fandal has been inculcating humanity

640
00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:43.740
throughout, it hasn't just woken up after 12000000 years.

641
00:27:43.799 --> 00:27:45.720
It's actually had an influence that entire period.

642
00:27:45.779 --> 00:27:49.740
But it mostly likes hammer horror and it plays your family.

643
00:27:49.799 --> 00:27:51.000
It really is, isn't it?

644
00:27:51.059 --> 00:27:54.299
Maybe, maybe Peter Cushing used to live above it. with

645
00:27:54.299 --> 00:27:54.960
Christopher...

646
00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:57.960
Peter Fendelman... right.

647
00:27:58.019 --> 00:28:00.180
Is there anyone in this that doesn't work?

648
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:01.500
Is there anyone who?

649
00:28:01.559 --> 00:28:04.079
I don't think there's anyone in the cast.

650
00:28:04.140 --> 00:28:05.819
No, no, I think the casts are all really good.

651
00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:06.900
And the pacing is good.

652
00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:08.819
Yeah, I think the writing is lovely.

653
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:12.299
I think there's, I think that there's exposition scenes, as I said

654
00:28:12.299 --> 00:28:15.720
before, in 3 and 4 that don't really work and aren't really

655
00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:16.740
necessary.

656
00:28:16.740 --> 00:28:22.079
And I think it's an attempt by Williams to move away from the kind

657
00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:25.980
of Gothic horror of the Hingecliffe thing and make it a bit more

658
00:28:25.980 --> 00:28:26.759
science-based.

659
00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:29.279
But I think the horror, I agree with Brendan.

660
00:28:29.339 --> 00:28:32.940
I think the horror actually works more here because it's implicit

661
00:28:32.940 --> 00:28:35.819
rather than the explicit horror of the Hinchcliffe here.

662
00:28:35.819 --> 00:28:39.180
And, of course, borrowing from Lovecraft, you can't go wrong if

663
00:28:39.180 --> 00:28:44.220
you're talking about horror from before, the vocal memory of human

664
00:28:44.220 --> 00:28:44.640
culture.

665
00:28:44.700 --> 00:28:45.720
Absolutely.

666
00:28:45.779 --> 00:28:49.259
The horror, instead of being given front and centre screen.

667
00:28:49.319 --> 00:28:54.720
It's what a lot of horror films do now in that they might be

668
00:28:54.720 --> 00:28:59.099
focussing on, say, Adam Colby, but really what's going on and the

669
00:28:59.099 --> 00:29:01.920
important thing to the plot is how Fear Ransom is reacting behind

670
00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:02.160
him.

671
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:05.880
And doesn't she do it beautifully in a, in a, what should be a

672
00:29:05.880 --> 00:29:09.059
very passive role and being, you know, pretty much the Pauline

673
00:29:09.059 --> 00:29:14.460
character, perilously impaled on her own Pilates washboard, but

674
00:29:14.460 --> 00:29:18.900
she's actually, for me, really giving the impetus to it.

675
00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:20.339
She's the one that's showing the true horror.

676
00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:23.759
And Adam is actually kind of nicely as the audience figure.

677
00:29:23.819 --> 00:29:25.980
He's just sitting there, just standing there.

678
00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:28.380
You know, he and Tom were mates in rep.

679
00:29:28.500 --> 00:29:29.279
It comes across.

680
00:29:29.339 --> 00:29:33.359
Yeah, those actors had a rapport when they were both young men.

681
00:29:33.420 --> 00:29:36.480
We've got another story here which is similar to horror, fang rock

682
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:37.980
in terms of the body count.

683
00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:40.500
You know, so many people we meet during the course of the story

684
00:29:40.500 --> 00:29:41.279
die.

685
00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:45.960
But we do have people, as Richard observed, like Adam Colby is

686
00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:47.339
very definitely he's going to be alive.

687
00:29:47.400 --> 00:29:49.500
Mark Tyler, Jack Tyler.

688
00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:52.980
You'll notice that the recipe for the fruit muffins today has come

689
00:29:52.980 --> 00:29:54.420
from the doctors.

690
00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:58.200
I buried it for 2 weeks in my team in the garden before I served

691
00:29:58.200 --> 00:29:58.740
it, yeah.

692
00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:00.359
The cat didn't get to it.

693
00:30:00.660 --> 00:30:02.819
We asked 2 weeks ago.

694
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:06.599
Could any of the characters have survived Horror of Fang Rock?

695
00:30:06.660 --> 00:30:09.359
And I think we kind of have an answer here in that, it's more

696
00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:11.880
effective in a way, because the deaths we have, and especially

697
00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:14.220
Thea's death, mean more.

698
00:30:14.279 --> 00:30:15.299
It's awful.

699
00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:19.440
And Matt, even Max's death, and we're meant to hate Max and the

700
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:21.240
doctors say, I can't do anything for you.

701
00:30:21.299 --> 00:30:24.240
And Max asked for the gun and the doctor's like, don't be stupid.

702
00:30:24.299 --> 00:30:24.960
It won't do anything.

703
00:30:25.019 --> 00:30:26.460
He says, it's not for her.

704
00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:28.200
Do you know that was a compromise?

705
00:30:28.259 --> 00:30:31.500
They actually were going to show, they showed him putting the gun

706
00:30:31.500 --> 00:30:31.920
in the mouth.

707
00:30:32.039 --> 00:30:33.059
Yeah, that was in the script.

708
00:30:33.059 --> 00:30:36.000
And that was it. and this was a compromise between Graham and

709
00:30:36.000 --> 00:30:37.559
Williams and the heads of the BBC.

710
00:30:37.619 --> 00:30:38.880
So, well, I think...

711
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:41.519
Same of the complains about that, but I think it would have been

712
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:45.119
terrible to see him put the gun on. you don't need it?

713
00:30:45.180 --> 00:30:48.240
Also, I'm really glad to see that Williams isn't actually

714
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:51.299
compromising on what made Doctor Who so popular in the last few

715
00:30:51.299 --> 00:30:51.539
years.

716
00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:52.440
He knows.

717
00:30:52.500 --> 00:30:55.200
He's had a bit of shrift.

718
00:30:55.259 --> 00:30:59.400
I'm not sure where the popular continuum of fandom opinion is, he

719
00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:04.019
got a lovely reprise in the 90s when people like Paul Canell and

720
00:31:04.019 --> 00:31:07.680
Kate Orman were just, you know, going back to the reason he loved

721
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:08.519
Graham Williams.

722
00:31:08.579 --> 00:31:11.640
Well, the reason I love Graham Williams is, and he does it in this

723
00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:15.420
one as well, he always talks about books, and as a young boy, I

724
00:31:15.420 --> 00:31:18.059
liked that there was a Bob Holmes thing, that the doctor gave us

725
00:31:18.059 --> 00:31:21.119
the meaning of a new word in each story, and he would mention

726
00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:23.279
books, and this is the one where I read a lot.

727
00:31:23.339 --> 00:31:27.180
And I still use that line at work when people ask a question and

728
00:31:27.180 --> 00:31:30.480
it absolutely silences everyone to this day, but because I can't

729
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:33.720
believe I'm doing such a twat impersonation.

730
00:31:34.140 --> 00:31:36.599
Just speaking of, I read a lot.

731
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:39.839
I once had a boss who didn't know who Martin Luther King was.

732
00:31:39.900 --> 00:31:41.519
Ah.

733
00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:43.799
Wankaw.

734
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:46.500
No, absolutely.

735
00:31:46.559 --> 00:31:50.220
I think you really played the Harlem Globetrotters, didn't you?

736
00:31:50.339 --> 00:31:54.420
Graham Williams came into the program with the instruction to

737
00:31:54.420 --> 00:31:56.519
reduce the quotient of horror.

738
00:31:56.579 --> 00:31:59.039
And I don't think he does at this point.

739
00:31:59.160 --> 00:32:00.240
No, he doesn't.

740
00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:04.079
Horror Fang Rock, as the title suggests, was a horror.

741
00:32:04.140 --> 00:32:05.940
This is a horror.

742
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:10.559
What he's done is he has made the characterisation more real and

743
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:13.319
that means that the characters have light as well as dark.

744
00:32:13.380 --> 00:32:17.160
I think the problem with the Hinchcliffe era was not so much the

745
00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:17.700
horror.

746
00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:20.220
It was the lack of light in the stories.

747
00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:24.660
Yeah, I, oh, that it's sustensible.

748
00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:28.200
I like this, again, I like this one because it's implicit.

749
00:32:28.259 --> 00:32:32.160
It feels far more like a literature.

750
00:32:32.220 --> 00:32:36.660
It feels far more like Lovecraft in the written version than it.

751
00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:39.900
It's not very filmic. in the way that it implies horror.

752
00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:40.319
You disagree?

753
00:32:40.380 --> 00:32:43.859
Well, I just think Lovecraft is actually has some great ideas, but

754
00:32:43.859 --> 00:32:47.880
is a truly, truly terrible right. and a brutal racist.

755
00:32:47.940 --> 00:32:48.779
Do you know what I mean?

756
00:32:48.900 --> 00:32:50.700
Well, he's obviously...

757
00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:52.980
Yeah, I agree with the other races and his implicit.

758
00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:55.740
He actually makes very good drama, the audio drama, the BBC do

759
00:32:55.740 --> 00:32:59.220
quite a few radio versions of...

760
00:32:59.279 --> 00:33:02.279
Yeah, but that way you don't have to actually read his pro.

761
00:33:02.339 --> 00:33:05.400
In the mountains of madness has just been repeated again on BBC

762
00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:05.700
4.

763
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:06.480
It's really well done.

764
00:33:06.539 --> 00:33:08.759
Yeah, they're great ideas.

765
00:33:08.819 --> 00:33:11.819
And certainly Hinchcliffe plunders them relentlessly, and this is

766
00:33:11.819 --> 00:33:14.519
kind of the last hurrah of that approach.

767
00:33:14.579 --> 00:33:19.440
And I actually wonder whether despite, you know, William's

768
00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:23.099
innovations, that approach to Doctor Who has now played out.

769
00:33:23.339 --> 00:33:26.579
Yeah, and we will see less of the horror.

770
00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:31.140
We get sort of one horror story next year and then in William's

771
00:33:31.140 --> 00:33:31.680
final year.

772
00:33:31.740 --> 00:33:35.880
We don't really, we get some horror horror aspects in stories, but

773
00:33:35.880 --> 00:33:38.099
we don't get another horror story after.

774
00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:40.440
Well, in fact, next year's horror story does what this one does

775
00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:44.640
which is take a quick left turn into science fiction in episode

776
00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:45.240
three.

777
00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:46.380
Do you know what I mean?

778
00:33:46.440 --> 00:33:48.779
And it becomes something different from what we expected.

779
00:33:48.900 --> 00:33:51.839
And I would argue as much as I love that story.

780
00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:54.779
It's not anywhere near as effective as image of the fender.

781
00:33:54.900 --> 00:33:56.339
Yeah, no, I think that's probably true.

782
00:33:56.400 --> 00:33:59.099
I love both of them, though, I have to say.

783
00:33:59.160 --> 00:34:01.859
Before we finish up, I'd just like to discuss the interplay

784
00:34:01.859 --> 00:34:02.940
between the 2 regulars.

785
00:34:03.059 --> 00:34:07.019
So I think Tom and Louise are getting on much better now.

786
00:34:07.079 --> 00:34:08.940
They had some rapport.

787
00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:10.800
They have some comedic dialogue.

788
00:34:10.860 --> 00:34:14.880
Louise has that horrible haircut because of an overzealous BBC.

789
00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:15.659
Oh my goodness.

790
00:34:15.659 --> 00:34:16.679
BBC hairdresser.

791
00:34:16.739 --> 00:34:19.500
Did Todd not leave a question about this because Todd has been

792
00:34:19.500 --> 00:34:23.400
bitching for weeks about how awful Leila's costume is and how

793
00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:24.659
terrible her hair is?

794
00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:25.860
Well, that's the thing.

795
00:34:25.980 --> 00:34:29.400
He did actually include that it is recording, but I decided not to

796
00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:32.219
include it because he's been talking about it so much.

797
00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:34.800
I figured long term listeners would understand.

798
00:34:34.860 --> 00:34:36.480
Might be terrible.

799
00:34:36.539 --> 00:34:39.539
Mine's a big disappointment is that the intention for the

800
00:34:39.539 --> 00:34:40.139
character.

801
00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:44.940
Maybe Boucher puts that into this one, but, you know, maybe it was

802
00:34:44.940 --> 00:34:48.000
more a Hinchcliffe thing, is that Leela was going to progress

803
00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:50.460
along the lines of Eliza Doolittle.

804
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:55.199
And she would never wear the skins again after Weng Chiang, when

805
00:34:55.199 --> 00:34:55.800
she changes.

806
00:34:55.860 --> 00:34:58.920
It was, it was, and they carried that forward a little with

807
00:34:58.920 --> 00:35:00.420
horrifying, right?

808
00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:01.800
She's wearing an outfit.

809
00:35:01.860 --> 00:35:05.280
But then they've gone back to dumbing her down and then treating

810
00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:06.480
her like an idiot sometimes.

811
00:35:06.539 --> 00:35:08.039
It doesn't happen to her in this story.

812
00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:14.039
But you haven't heard our talents of Wing Shayang episode yet, but

813
00:35:14.039 --> 00:35:17.099
I actually object strongly to her being put in that dress because

814
00:35:17.099 --> 00:35:21.059
she turns into a sort of simpering girly, you know, and so...

815
00:35:21.059 --> 00:35:22.739
She's got a rat at her nethers.

816
00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:25.139
No, no, that's when she's in her undies later.

817
00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:26.159
I know.

818
00:35:26.219 --> 00:35:28.380
Well, she's dressed as the artful dog, yeah.

819
00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:29.219
She's dressed as a boy.

820
00:35:29.219 --> 00:35:30.960
In those velvets.

821
00:35:31.019 --> 00:35:32.460
No, he doesn't win Cheyenne.

822
00:35:32.579 --> 00:35:35.699
When Lightfoot chooses a guy in for her, yes.

823
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:39.420
When Rex Harrison and Colonel Pickering go out and buy her address

824
00:35:39.420 --> 00:35:43.139
and put her in it and then she smiles like a proper girl.

825
00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:47.880
Like, I don't think the journey from huntress to a woman.

826
00:35:48.420 --> 00:35:48.960
But she's a girl.

827
00:35:49.019 --> 00:35:50.340
I mean, you know, this is the thing.

828
00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:52.440
This is an all boy cast.

829
00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:54.300
Girls like dress frocking up.

830
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:55.679
They do, and so do quite a few boys.

831
00:35:55.739 --> 00:35:58.860
I think I need to look too far. this tabletop.

832
00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:00.780
Pate biscuit indeed.

833
00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:04.019
This is, you know, it's, she, I think that was actually really

834
00:36:04.019 --> 00:36:07.980
charming that she was still able to to play along with the girly

835
00:36:07.980 --> 00:36:08.219
stuff.

836
00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:09.420
She's a woman.

837
00:36:09.480 --> 00:36:11.880
She's allowed to frock up and be feminine.

838
00:36:11.940 --> 00:36:14.280
I mean, she's not all the other things aren't as valid.

839
00:36:14.340 --> 00:36:15.960
Anyway, we've kind of done this.

840
00:36:16.019 --> 00:36:17.460
Yeah, yeah.

841
00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:19.019
Oh, it's fresh for me anyway.

842
00:36:19.079 --> 00:36:20.760
Head back about 3 weeks too.

843
00:36:20.820 --> 00:36:22.320
If you'd like to hear that conversation again.

844
00:36:22.380 --> 00:36:26.579
Well, I still, it's still pertinent to this, to the exposition of

845
00:36:26.579 --> 00:36:29.940
Lita's character as we're going along, because I feel she's

846
00:36:29.940 --> 00:36:31.019
hitting the brakes too often.

847
00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:34.619
She doesn't know this story, but she has in the one previous to

848
00:36:34.619 --> 00:36:36.360
this one, and I think she will in the next one.

849
00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:40.019
I think that Baker and Martin write her poorly.

850
00:36:40.139 --> 00:36:42.179
I think Boucher does a good job.

851
00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:45.719
I think Bob Holmes's initial stab at the character in Talons of

852
00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:49.679
Wing Chang is terrible, but that he does a great job of her in

853
00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:50.579
Sunmakers.

854
00:36:50.639 --> 00:36:54.480
I think Terence, to my surprise, does a good job of her, you know

855
00:36:54.599 --> 00:36:56.039
he does.

856
00:36:56.099 --> 00:36:56.699
Yeah, yeah.

857
00:36:56.820 --> 00:37:00.480
But she is a character who really, because she's so high concept

858
00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:03.480
she kind of lives and dies on the writing.

859
00:37:03.539 --> 00:37:06.599
It's not the normal thing where you invent a very thin character

860
00:37:06.599 --> 00:37:09.659
and just rely on the actor to create the character.

861
00:37:09.780 --> 00:37:13.500
This is a high concept character of the kind that we'll get later

862
00:37:13.500 --> 00:37:17.280
on, and it does depend very strongly on how it's being written, I

863
00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:17.519
think.

864
00:37:17.579 --> 00:37:21.000
It's the ultimate polar opposite to the doctor, which is why

865
00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:24.659
there's nowhere else that can go, and it's the legacy of Liz

866
00:37:24.659 --> 00:37:25.260
Sledden.

867
00:37:25.320 --> 00:37:29.099
There's nowhere else they can go preempting the next season, but

868
00:37:29.099 --> 00:37:30.300
the direction they go in.

869
00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:30.719
Yeah.

870
00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:35.159
What I love about Leila is her character has evolved. which is

871
00:37:35.159 --> 00:37:39.239
partially due to the writing, but mainly due to Louise's

872
00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:42.119
performance and Tom Louise, I don't know if Tom was cooperating at

873
00:37:42.119 --> 00:37:42.780
this stage, was he?

874
00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:46.380
But something that is in evidence here, as was in evidence in

875
00:37:46.380 --> 00:37:47.460
horror of fang rock.

876
00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:50.340
Of course, Leila accepts science now and she tries to understand

877
00:37:50.340 --> 00:37:51.059
science.

878
00:37:51.119 --> 00:37:53.159
So, you know, when the doctor says Sonic time scan.

879
00:37:53.219 --> 00:37:56.400
She remembers it and she knows that's the problem and she expects

880
00:37:56.400 --> 00:37:58.920
everyone else to know it because you understand science, aren't

881
00:37:58.920 --> 00:37:59.099
you?

882
00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:02.699
But there's that great bit where she's very respectful of Mart

883
00:38:02.699 --> 00:38:05.460
Heiler's old traditions and talks about how important they are.

884
00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:07.019
She's great in that scene.

885
00:38:07.079 --> 00:38:10.139
She also understands psychology because when Jack says, what

886
00:38:10.139 --> 00:38:10.800
happened, Ma?

887
00:38:10.860 --> 00:38:11.519
Don't ask her that.

888
00:38:11.579 --> 00:38:13.800
It's because she does not want to remember that she's like this.

889
00:38:14.460 --> 00:38:17.280
She's really strong and clever in this.

890
00:38:17.340 --> 00:38:19.440
She keeps a foot in both her worlds.

891
00:38:19.500 --> 00:38:22.500
In her traditional world, which, of course, has got her to the

892
00:38:22.500 --> 00:38:24.000
point where she is today, you know.

893
00:38:24.179 --> 00:38:28.559
So she doesn't throw out the old ways, but as she says in horror

894
00:38:28.559 --> 00:38:31.619
of Fang Rock, there are better ways in science.

895
00:38:31.739 --> 00:38:33.119
Should we talk about Hyde?

896
00:38:33.179 --> 00:38:34.380
Yes, please.

897
00:38:34.440 --> 00:38:37.320
Hyde is series 7.

898
00:38:37.500 --> 00:38:44.460
It's Matt Smith and Jenna Coleman, and it's very, very closely a

899
00:38:44.460 --> 00:38:46.320
kind of retread of this, isn't it?

900
00:38:46.380 --> 00:38:47.940
It's set in the same period.

901
00:38:48.059 --> 00:38:50.760
It's set in a haunted priory.

902
00:38:50.820 --> 00:38:57.059
It has a female character who is kind of psychic and in touch with

903
00:38:57.059 --> 00:39:00.960
the alien threat, as we think it is.

904
00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:07.559
It has a whole section in Act 4, where they faff about and the

905
00:39:07.559 --> 00:39:10.860
TARD is kind of wasting time and finding out what's going on.

906
00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:14.519
And it does that sort of traditional horror thing.

907
00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:21.659
And I think it's very definitely a kind of lift or a retread of

908
00:39:21.659 --> 00:39:22.980
image of the fendile.

909
00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:24.960
See, I'd never picked up on that.

910
00:39:25.019 --> 00:39:28.380
Now that you come to mention it, yes, I do see it, but I had never

911
00:39:28.380 --> 00:39:29.400
picked up on that at the time.

912
00:39:29.460 --> 00:39:32.579
It even has a very sort of strong look, you know, it seems very

913
00:39:32.579 --> 00:39:37.019
much like it in the way that it looks and the way that it goes

914
00:39:37.019 --> 00:39:39.960
from straightforward horror into something a bit more science

915
00:39:39.960 --> 00:39:41.159
fiction later.

916
00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:45.119
And yeah, even the doctor and Clara just kind of walk into the

917
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:45.239
house.

918
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:46.139
It's like, hi.

919
00:39:46.199 --> 00:39:48.960
But all I can think of with that story.

920
00:39:49.019 --> 00:39:50.760
And I quite enjoyed that one.

921
00:39:50.820 --> 00:39:52.139
There were ones of series 7.

922
00:39:52.199 --> 00:39:53.519
I didn't enjoy, but I quite enjoyed that one.

923
00:39:53.579 --> 00:39:56.280
All I can think of that story is, of course, you have Jessica Rain

924
00:39:56.280 --> 00:39:59.519
who would go on to be Verity Lambert in an adventure in space and

925
00:39:59.519 --> 00:39:59.880
time.

926
00:39:59.940 --> 00:40:03.659
You've got Doug Ray Scott, who was the 1st choice for Wolverine in

927
00:40:03.659 --> 00:40:07.619
the X-Men films, which he turned down and the role went to Hugh

928
00:40:07.619 --> 00:40:08.159
Jackman.

929
00:40:08.219 --> 00:40:09.659
Do you know what he turned it down to do?

930
00:40:09.719 --> 00:40:11.880
Mission Impossible 2.

931
00:40:12.059 --> 00:40:13.739
Oh, dear.

932
00:40:13.739 --> 00:40:15.480
He might have already been contracted to it.

933
00:40:15.539 --> 00:40:16.800
Let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

934
00:40:16.860 --> 00:40:19.679
No, he no, he was cast with Wolverine and got it.

935
00:40:19.739 --> 00:40:22.079
He was cast Wolverine and got the other offer and thought that

936
00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:25.139
would be a bigger, fairly imbued, the level of bitterness that we

937
00:40:25.139 --> 00:40:27.539
saw in Hyde. a very good performance.

938
00:40:27.599 --> 00:40:30.119
Can we talk finally about the fender?

939
00:40:30.179 --> 00:40:32.760
Oh, when it kind of finally arises because I actually...

940
00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:34.260
Can we talk about why it's got frills?

941
00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:37.679
Cheap frills and how veins. you mean the...

942
00:40:37.739 --> 00:40:39.000
Do you mean the fender lane?

943
00:40:39.059 --> 00:40:40.500
That's the word.

944
00:40:40.559 --> 00:40:40.860
Yes.

945
00:40:40.920 --> 00:40:44.579
It was actually John Nathan Turner who asked for the cheap frills

946
00:40:44.579 --> 00:40:46.920
to be able to because he said it reminded him of something.

947
00:40:47.820 --> 00:40:49.559
That he had it home.

948
00:40:49.619 --> 00:40:52.980
I think maybe he needs some cream then, if that reminds me of

949
00:40:52.980 --> 00:40:53.400
something.

950
00:40:53.460 --> 00:40:56.519
I know, really, without the paint and without, because a lot of

951
00:40:56.519 --> 00:40:58.260
that paint was added and without the neck pieces.

952
00:40:58.320 --> 00:41:01.980
That is just Doctor Who's response to anything that's remotely

953
00:41:01.980 --> 00:41:02.940
phallic, isn't it?

954
00:41:03.000 --> 00:41:03.659
Put a cloak on it.

955
00:41:03.719 --> 00:41:05.820
Yes, it'll be it'll be fine.

956
00:41:05.880 --> 00:41:07.980
The resolution isn't that great.

957
00:41:08.039 --> 00:41:10.980
And that's that's another flaw that this story has.

958
00:41:11.039 --> 00:41:14.099
So the moment that we discover that the fandoline are vulnerable

959
00:41:14.099 --> 00:41:17.400
to rock salt, we can just kind of kill them sort of fairly

960
00:41:17.400 --> 00:41:17.760
easily.

961
00:41:17.820 --> 00:41:22.980
Oh, they've got some horrible ace and gold coins moments, haven't

962
00:41:22.980 --> 00:41:23.880
we?

963
00:41:23.940 --> 00:41:25.980
Yeah, it's that's, I mean, that's not that great.

964
00:41:26.099 --> 00:41:30.599
And then when fear appears as the Fendal core, all she really does

965
00:41:30.599 --> 00:41:34.619
is sort of roll back and mix into various scenes, wave her arms

966
00:41:34.619 --> 00:41:36.119
around and then disappear.

967
00:41:36.179 --> 00:41:37.380
Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean?

968
00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:42.360
And if you look at her, she'll turn you into a fendoline.

969
00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:47.940
I actually think is the... they're so cute. you get in the action

970
00:41:47.940 --> 00:41:48.659
figure pack.

971
00:41:48.719 --> 00:41:51.780
You get a cute puppet fendoline, a full-sized fendoline and a

972
00:41:51.780 --> 00:41:56.880
Leila, and a skull on a plinth, and the skull is translucent.

973
00:41:56.940 --> 00:41:57.659
Wow.

974
00:41:57.719 --> 00:41:58.980
So you can die.

975
00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:00.960
I want a puppet fenderling so badly.

976
00:42:01.019 --> 00:42:04.199
They're so cute But, you know, they don't kind of do anything and

977
00:42:04.199 --> 00:42:07.139
then and then the doctor sort of talks and this is going to be a

978
00:42:07.139 --> 00:42:10.559
problem in a few stories this year where it's all just resolved by

979
00:42:10.559 --> 00:42:13.980
the doctor saying he's going to do something technical, then he

980
00:42:13.980 --> 00:42:17.699
explodes the whole kind of, uh, you know, priory and stuff and

981
00:42:17.699 --> 00:42:18.480
it's all over.

982
00:42:18.539 --> 00:42:21.539
And I think that that's a little bit too easy and a little bit too

983
00:42:21.539 --> 00:42:22.380
uninteresting.

984
00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:27.239
And the resolutions like this really should hinge on some kind of

985
00:42:27.239 --> 00:42:31.500
character moment or some kind of clever plot moment.

986
00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:35.099
But instead we just sort of talk our way out of it and there's a

987
00:42:35.099 --> 00:42:35.699
big explosion.

988
00:42:35.760 --> 00:42:39.480
Yeah, we've had that for the last 3 stories now.

989
00:42:39.539 --> 00:42:43.260
And possibly going back even further.

990
00:42:43.320 --> 00:42:45.719
Well, no, talent of waiting trying doesn't end with an explosion.

991
00:42:45.780 --> 00:42:49.920
But yeah, horror of fang rock, invisible enemy, and image of the

992
00:42:49.920 --> 00:42:52.860
fend, I'll all end with, oh, and then it exploded.

993
00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:54.360
Thankfully next week we won't have that.

994
00:42:54.420 --> 00:42:55.559
Sorry, Richard, did you?

995
00:42:55.679 --> 00:42:58.260
No, I was going to say, that's what Doctor Who always does. and

996
00:42:58.260 --> 00:42:59.099
that's...

997
00:42:59.099 --> 00:43:01.139
The big end. explosion.

998
00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:03.059
Well, also they're talking our way out of it.

999
00:43:03.119 --> 00:43:06.659
It's getting action figures are just, it's my dinner with Andre

1000
00:43:06.659 --> 00:43:07.559
action figure assortment.

1001
00:43:07.619 --> 00:43:09.059
But I don't mean talk at each other.

1002
00:43:09.119 --> 00:43:12.119
I don't mean cleverly talking our way out of it by doing some

1003
00:43:12.119 --> 00:43:15.179
character thing or persuading someone of something or anything

1004
00:43:15.179 --> 00:43:15.900
like that.

1005
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:19.380
I think it's just, we'll connect the bliz bloss to the biz bang

1006
00:43:19.380 --> 00:43:20.460
bong and...

1007
00:43:20.579 --> 00:43:21.599
That is what Doctor Who does.

1008
00:43:21.659 --> 00:43:23.820
And you're right, it is a bit Adam West Batman.

1009
00:43:23.880 --> 00:43:26.099
It's too crummy and just not very interesting.

1010
00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:28.079
It's connected into Dick Grayson.

1011
00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:28.679
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1012
00:43:28.739 --> 00:43:30.360
Reverse the polarity and...

1013
00:43:30.360 --> 00:43:31.139
Dick Grayson.

1014
00:43:31.199 --> 00:43:31.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1015
00:43:31.860 --> 00:43:35.219
That comes back to your cloaking suggestion, doesn't it?

1016
00:43:35.280 --> 00:43:38.039
That if anything's a bit dick grossing, you just throw it.

1017
00:43:38.099 --> 00:43:40.619
Do you think that's why Paul McGann refers to the chameleon

1018
00:43:40.619 --> 00:43:42.719
circuit is the cloaking device of the TV movie?

1019
00:43:42.900 --> 00:43:45.000
Let's try to throw it over the entire production.

1020
00:43:45.059 --> 00:43:46.260
More of that later.

1021
00:43:46.440 --> 00:43:49.139
I would just like to comment on the ending.

1022
00:43:49.199 --> 00:43:52.980
We get some lovely, low, low key comedy between Tom and Louise

1023
00:43:52.980 --> 00:43:56.760
about gendering canine and gendering machines and what have you

1024
00:43:56.760 --> 00:43:58.260
which pays off from an earlier scene.

1025
00:43:58.320 --> 00:44:01.980
What I really love is Adam Colby, who's the last surviving member

1026
00:44:01.980 --> 00:44:03.599
of the scientific expedition.

1027
00:44:03.659 --> 00:44:06.000
The house has been exploded, so he's going to have a horrible time

1028
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:06.539
with the police.

1029
00:44:06.599 --> 00:44:07.619
What does he do?

1030
00:44:07.679 --> 00:44:10.380
Sits down for a cup of tea with Ma and Jack Tyler.

1031
00:44:10.440 --> 00:44:11.400
Bless.

1032
00:44:23.460 --> 00:44:27.360
Well done, listener. time to deactivate the time scanner, because

1033
00:44:27.360 --> 00:44:30.179
that's all the time we have for the image of the Fendal.

1034
00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:33.659
Don't forget, you can find us online at flatthroughentirety.com

1035
00:44:33.659 --> 00:44:37.380
flat through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on

1036
00:44:37.380 --> 00:44:37.739
Twitter.

1037
00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:41.760
We also now have 4 James Bond commentaries available on

1038
00:44:41.760 --> 00:44:42.539
Bondfield.

1039
00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:43.199
Oh, that was quick.

1040
00:44:43.260 --> 00:44:48.599
Yes, for Dr. No, Goldfinger from Russia with Love and Thunderball

1041
00:44:48.599 --> 00:44:50.159
but not necessarily in that order.

1042
00:44:51.059 --> 00:44:54.539
And you can find those on Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook

1043
00:44:54.539 --> 00:44:57.539
and iTunes and Bondfinger cast on Twitter.

1044
00:44:57.539 --> 00:45:01.260
Until we see you next time for one of those, may all your x-rays

1045
00:45:01.260 --> 00:45:03.420
not reveal a pentagram on the back of your skull.

1046
00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:03.719
Good night.

1047
00:45:03.780 --> 00:45:04.320
Good night.

1048
00:45:04.380 --> 00:45:04.980
Good then.

1049
00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:11.159
That was Flat Your Entirety with Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones

1050
00:45:11.159 --> 00:45:12.000
and Richard Stone.

1051
00:45:12.059 --> 00:45:16.079
This episode, remotely Phallic, was recorded on the 27th of

1052
00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:17.159
September 2015.

1053
00:45:17.340 --> 00:45:19.739
The next episode will be released on November 15.

1054
00:45:20.219 --> 00:45:23.579
Once again, Doctor Who is oddly prescient, predicting a woman with

1055
00:45:23.579 --> 00:45:27.000
huge hair who sucks the life out of everything, 18 months before

1056
00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:28.019
she became Prime Minister.

1057
00:45:31.079 --> 00:45:35.159
You can find us online at flatthroughentirety.com, flight through

1058
00:45:35.159 --> 00:45:37.440
entirety on face tits.

1059
00:45:37.679 --> 00:45:39.780
That's staying in.