WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:21:22 1 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:38.460 Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast produced exclusively for work units. 2 00:00:38.520 --> 00:00:39.060 Praise the company. 3 00:00:39.119 --> 00:00:39.780 I'm Brandon. 4 00:00:39.840 --> 00:00:40.500 I'm Nathan. 5 00:00:40.560 --> 00:00:43.619 I'm a sever team steamed dumpling for this. 6 00:00:43.679 --> 00:00:48.539 And 17 steamed dumplings are only served in Macropolis 6 in the Sunmakers. 7 00:00:48.659 --> 00:00:50.700 Or is it McGroppos one? 8 00:00:53.759 --> 00:00:55.259 I'd love to say I love this story. 9 00:00:55.320 --> 00:00:56.280 Do you all love this story? 10 00:00:56.340 --> 00:00:57.240 Yeah, I do. 11 00:00:57.299 --> 00:00:59.939 If Nathan's not gonna find it tiresome, I'll have to jump in. 12 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:01.020 It should be great. 13 00:01:01.079 --> 00:01:05.340 It's Louise's favourite story, but, you know, as a boy. 14 00:01:05.400 --> 00:01:13.920 There are lovely moments and beautiful lions, but this is the kind of the point for me that some shows are better done by Nick Briggs on Big Finish and this is one of them. 15 00:01:13.980 --> 00:01:17.579 When they don't have a budget, you've got to sit and look at it. 16 00:01:17.640 --> 00:01:22.500 And I'm sorry, you've also got to look at people standing in a car park with a few machines going blink, blink. 17 00:01:22.560 --> 00:01:33.780 The arguments between Manfred, if that's what his name, Manfred Mann and everybody else, about who's going to be the most vicious underling in a, no, my dad's bigger than yours and I'm going to get you first. 18 00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:36.719 Oh, do you mean, do you mean Ventris from heartbeat? 19 00:01:36.840 --> 00:01:37.920 Oh, God. 20 00:01:37.980 --> 00:01:39.060 It's interminable. 21 00:01:39.120 --> 00:01:40.739 So yes, I get to be Nathan today. 22 00:01:40.859 --> 00:01:49.500 I think it's just because the costumes look like a blue Peter puppet theatre reimagining a Fritzlang's metropolis, but with bumblebees. 23 00:01:49.560 --> 00:01:56.519 Like the, I know that the, um, the gatherer, how it is meant to be an Aztec thing in their very Aztec moments. 24 00:01:56.579 --> 00:01:58.079 Okay, let's talk about why this is great. 25 00:01:58.140 --> 00:01:59.579 Isn't it good? 26 00:02:00.659 --> 00:02:05.700 I thought I might take the opportunity to leap in and agree with you on some of these things. 27 00:02:05.760 --> 00:02:07.260 This is the story I like. 28 00:02:07.319 --> 00:02:09.300 That might be my favourite story of the season. 29 00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:14.460 But the production is lamentably bad. 30 00:02:14.520 --> 00:02:18.419 And it's it's something that they seem to get right next season. 31 00:02:18.479 --> 00:02:20.879 I think next season has more hits. 32 00:02:20.939 --> 00:02:25.439 You know, they can't have any more money, but it just generally looks better. 33 00:02:25.500 --> 00:02:26.819 But here the production fails. 34 00:02:26.879 --> 00:02:28.560 Those white corridors are terrible. 35 00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:34.560 And I've got lots to say about the longest white corridor in Doctor Who history before or after. 36 00:02:34.620 --> 00:02:39.659 That is the longest corridor shot you'll ever see and don't you feel every single centimetre of it? 37 00:02:39.719 --> 00:02:45.840 You wonder why they do. shoot that on videotape too, so that it looks like, you know, it's an interior. 38 00:02:45.900 --> 00:02:46.860 They've done that before. 39 00:02:46.919 --> 00:02:48.659 You're right about next season. 40 00:02:48.719 --> 00:02:56.280 I think that there'll be a big change, the big difference now that those budget blowouts from Hinchcliffe and his epicanthic folds. 41 00:02:56.340 --> 00:02:59.039 How much do latex epicanthic folds actually cost? 42 00:02:59.099 --> 00:03:03.539 Very, very expensive and they will cost you your soul as well. 43 00:03:03.599 --> 00:03:04.560 Well, and they did. 44 00:03:04.620 --> 00:03:07.860 Well, plus every time John Bennett blinked, he'd tear the mask in too. 45 00:03:07.919 --> 00:03:08.460 So, you know. 46 00:03:08.580 --> 00:03:19.979 Yeah, well, apparently, yeah, you're probably covered with Todd, that Weng Chung, that terrific 80s group, just paying them for the rights, for the name, talents, chewed up so much of the budget for the future. 47 00:03:20.039 --> 00:03:23.580 Isn't Hinchcliffe a monster if we haven't even covered that yet. 48 00:03:23.639 --> 00:03:26.280 This is the 3rd companion who was going to be killed. 49 00:03:26.340 --> 00:03:28.979 Leila was going to be absolutely minced in this one. 50 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:30.719 Were they going to steam? 51 00:03:30.780 --> 00:03:31.199 Yep. 52 00:03:31.259 --> 00:03:33.300 She was actually going, I don't know about the final thing. 53 00:03:33.360 --> 00:03:36.060 We'll have to look up the notes again to check, but she was going to die. 54 00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:38.879 The brig was going to die in the original hand of fear, writing. 55 00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:43.139 And of course, Sarah was going to be killed in Seeds of Doom in the compost mincer. 56 00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:43.560 Yeah. 57 00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:47.460 Although, this was actually Graham Williams, considering killing Leila. 58 00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:49.740 So they were considering killing her in the steam sequence. 59 00:03:49.800 --> 00:04:00.539 So they were going to subvert the usual cliffhanger by having the companion die instead, and then Robert Holmes objected, because he was still around, and he wrote this script on his way out. 60 00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:09.000 This year, this is actually, even though it's noted as Tony Reed, as Anthony Reed, it's actually Holmes's last full job of doing everything, apparently. 61 00:04:09.060 --> 00:04:13.500 And also, they were considering killing Leila in the collector's office. 62 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:17.399 You know, when they Leila runs through that door when the doctor tells her not to when she gets zapped. 63 00:04:17.459 --> 00:04:18.720 Yeah, that is strange. 64 00:04:18.779 --> 00:04:20.279 I'm not surprised to hear that actually. 65 00:04:20.339 --> 00:04:22.259 Yeah, yeah, they were considering killing her. 66 00:04:22.319 --> 00:04:31.079 How do you both feel that would have worked out on screen considering the tone of the rest of the season and the impact of Leela herself as a character? 67 00:04:31.139 --> 00:04:33.660 That would have, it would have just been a terrible idea. 68 00:04:33.959 --> 00:04:35.519 In my opinion. 69 00:04:35.579 --> 00:04:37.259 It sounds like an episode of Blake 7. 70 00:04:37.319 --> 00:04:38.519 Yes, yeah. 71 00:04:38.579 --> 00:04:40.379 We'll get to that because... 72 00:04:40.379 --> 00:04:42.660 This is almost an episode of Blake 7. 73 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:44.220 I'm kind of loading that statement. 74 00:04:44.279 --> 00:04:45.540 It's even got Villa in it. 75 00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:46.920 He's great. 76 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:48.600 Marvocating his gallantry. 77 00:04:48.660 --> 00:04:52.500 It's got the woman who plays Vit is in a blanket. 78 00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:53.699 Which is a hair removal cream. 79 00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:54.480 Yeah, yeah. 80 00:04:54.540 --> 00:04:55.379 It's Australia. 81 00:04:55.439 --> 00:05:02.279 Yes, if I wanted, it's a dilipatory cream and a new series of Julia Louis Dreyfus. 82 00:05:02.339 --> 00:05:03.300 I think it might be V. 83 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:04.439 Yeah, same difference. 84 00:05:04.500 --> 00:05:07.860 It's also got Tom Kelly in it, who we've mentioned before. 85 00:05:07.920 --> 00:05:09.959 So he was killed over the face of evil. 86 00:05:10.019 --> 00:05:11.040 He is Nova. 87 00:05:11.100 --> 00:05:13.439 So he gets stuck in a wall by Leila in the face of evil. 88 00:05:13.500 --> 00:05:15.720 He gets stuck in a wall in the 1st episode of Blake 7. 89 00:05:15.779 --> 00:05:24.779 He gets stuck in barbed wire in the 2nd sapphire and steel story, and here he gets stuck under a mound of work units, revolting work units, right? 90 00:05:24.839 --> 00:05:27.420 I can't complain about variation of career prospects. 91 00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:28.620 Is this his very last performance? 92 00:05:28.740 --> 00:05:30.060 No, he appeared. 93 00:05:30.120 --> 00:05:35.220 He appears in the invasion of time, and his appearance are... 94 00:05:35.220 --> 00:05:38.759 Under a sand dune, under a piece of moulded fibreglass furniture. 95 00:05:38.879 --> 00:05:41.579 Well, it gets trapped in some tin foil in the invasion. 96 00:05:41.819 --> 00:05:43.860 Todd would... 97 00:05:43.860 --> 00:05:44.639 Can't wait for that one. 98 00:05:45.300 --> 00:05:47.759 Richard, we have a rare occurrency. 99 00:05:47.819 --> 00:05:48.959 Todd agrees with you. 100 00:05:49.019 --> 00:05:51.120 And he's about the flying in and he can comment. 101 00:05:51.240 --> 00:05:51.959 It's very common. 102 00:05:52.019 --> 00:06:00.060 Well, come, there's no surprise to you that as a child, I really dislike this story as much as the other Robert Holmes classic, The Carnival of the Monsters. 103 00:06:00.180 --> 00:06:02.759 And I would have given this one two out of 10 as well. 104 00:06:02.819 --> 00:06:08.699 I really, really disliked all the stuff underground, and I really thought it looked really cheap. 105 00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:10.379 But I did quite like mine. 106 00:06:10.439 --> 00:06:20.399 In my mature, well, in my old age, well, in my middle age, I actually think this is a really funny script, and I think there's some wonderful performances, especially by those underground. 107 00:06:20.519 --> 00:06:25.800 But I ask you, what audience is Bob Holmes actually directing this story too? 108 00:06:25.860 --> 00:06:29.279 Because I actually don't think it's the traditional Doctor Who audience. 109 00:06:29.339 --> 00:06:31.800 All right, well, look, I've got some cooking to do. 110 00:06:31.860 --> 00:06:33.360 I've gotta go and put a turkey in the oven. 111 00:06:33.420 --> 00:06:37.319 I have to let it baste in its own juices. and I don't want it to overcook and get too dry. 112 00:06:37.379 --> 00:06:44.399 Well, it doesn't really matter, because next week, I'm going to be serving up turkey, whether it's dry or moist, a turkey is still a turkey. 113 00:06:44.459 --> 00:06:46.680 Todd nailed it twice. 114 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:47.519 Thank you, Todd. 115 00:06:47.579 --> 00:06:49.079 We have to thank Pennant Roberts. 116 00:06:49.139 --> 00:06:50.459 He got a lot of the director of the story. 117 00:06:50.519 --> 00:07:01.139 Got a lot of, you know, slack later on in fan circles, for, I think, mostly for his '80s stories, which didn't quite hold up so well, and there's a reason for that, and I don't think it's pennant robbers. 118 00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:02.279 He's good here. 119 00:07:02.339 --> 00:07:04.019 Well I don't know that he's terribly bad. 120 00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:20.759 I just think there's no budget and no time, but there is one line he makes, which is gorgeous, but, um, Pennant Roberts, the character of man was written for a man, and Pennant Robinson, every story he's done has replaced the major secondary character with a female actor, and full points for that. 121 00:07:20.879 --> 00:07:23.519 It is a... 122 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:25.800 She's not a great actor that she's the secretary, though. 123 00:07:25.860 --> 00:07:26.519 Do you know what I mean? 124 00:07:26.579 --> 00:07:28.680 Yeah, but she's also called... 125 00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:29.279 Look, I agree. 126 00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:31.860 Um, you know, I like her a lot. 127 00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:37.560 I think she's terrific, and there's a moment where the collector is getting very excited about the prospect of steaming Leila. 128 00:07:38.399 --> 00:07:40.680 There's a website for that. 129 00:07:40.740 --> 00:07:46.379 She's kind of horrified by him and scared of him and she sells that really well. 130 00:07:46.439 --> 00:07:50.939 And her final scene where she's deciding to join the rebels. 131 00:07:51.000 --> 00:07:52.680 She's also really funny in that scene. 132 00:07:52.740 --> 00:07:55.019 I think she's good No, look, she's superb. 133 00:07:55.079 --> 00:07:57.300 I can see why Louise loves loves this so much. 134 00:07:57.360 --> 00:07:58.620 Pennant Roberts, the other line. 135 00:07:58.680 --> 00:08:05.759 We go back to the corridors, is he said, you know, this was filmed at the big old tobacco factory outside of London. 136 00:08:05.819 --> 00:08:07.319 It was called, what was it called? 137 00:08:07.379 --> 00:08:21.180 the Hartcliffe whiffy or something, but it was trying to tell the actors how to stomp about under PCH, you know, the pentosylenic methyl hydrine gas, which invests an experiment with its school. 138 00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:24.000 It's the, you know, it's the dental thing. 139 00:08:24.060 --> 00:08:26.399 But anyway, wandering about with, with that. 140 00:08:26.459 --> 00:08:28.500 He said, and they said, well, you know, how do you want us to do it? 141 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:31.560 one of the, you know, fortunate extras. he was trying to make his mark. 142 00:08:31.620 --> 00:08:33.899 Just look around at all the workers here in this factory. 143 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:36.299 And I doubt that they're just smoking tobacco. 144 00:08:36.899 --> 00:08:40.139 They were looking so bored and wondering for their jobs to die. 145 00:08:40.200 --> 00:08:41.879 Pileen 50 actually. 146 00:08:41.940 --> 00:08:43.019 Exactly. 147 00:08:43.080 --> 00:08:48.480 If we can just throw back to why Todd, the 2nd point of Todd's question is that he doesn't like this as a boy. 148 00:08:48.539 --> 00:08:58.019 I did like this as a boy, but it was also instantly forgettable, and I think the 2 reasons it really works is the backup cast are so strong because Roberts cares about his actors. 149 00:08:58.080 --> 00:08:59.879 It's a great audio script. 150 00:08:59.940 --> 00:09:02.940 It should exist in the mind or have you got your drink ready? 151 00:09:02.940 --> 00:09:07.500 Or as directed by Lang or Manao as a German expressionist film. 152 00:09:07.740 --> 00:09:09.240 Those. 153 00:09:09.299 --> 00:09:09.539 Thank you. 154 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:11.460 Those white so long away. 155 00:09:11.519 --> 00:09:12.600 It's been so long away. 156 00:09:12.659 --> 00:09:20.700 Those white corridors would have been beautiful with some projections on them and just cut the lighting and make everything. 157 00:09:20.759 --> 00:09:25.259 You've got beautiful long white corridors are brilliant for projecting shadows onto. 158 00:09:25.259 --> 00:09:28.980 And all the great directors of the silent era and the early black and white know the same thing. 159 00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:30.720 Cut all the lights, throw some things in. 160 00:09:30.779 --> 00:09:34.500 You didn't need to spend half the budget on the go-go gadget, mobile. 161 00:09:34.500 --> 00:09:40.080 Mystery van thing that they're all trundling around in at .3 K an hour trying to look terrible.ied. 162 00:09:40.139 --> 00:09:42.240 Independent Roberts can direct. 163 00:09:42.539 --> 00:09:44.460 It's so stupid. 164 00:09:44.519 --> 00:09:51.059 But it's great because you can recreate it in Legos, as Brendan's already done for us with our dimensions game. gone on the table. 165 00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:53.100 Yeah, so lighting really lets it down. 166 00:09:53.159 --> 00:09:55.679 Pennant Roberts, I think, is a great actor and theatre director. 167 00:09:55.740 --> 00:10:03.600 He's not a great visual director, and it's so unwatchable because I've always said Doctor Who, it's not what it looks like, but I was wrong. 168 00:10:03.659 --> 00:10:04.139 I was wrong. 169 00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:07.200 If this was a relationship, we'd all be in counselling now. 170 00:10:07.259 --> 00:10:07.620 I was wrong. 171 00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:09.360 It's almost unwatchable. 172 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:14.460 See, I agree with you to a point, certainly with the film sequences. 173 00:10:14.519 --> 00:10:19.500 But in the studio, I do think Pennant is trying to get that expressionistic side. 174 00:10:19.620 --> 00:10:24.240 Like, if you look at Gatherer Hayes' office, It's sort of a bunch of freestanding shapes in a black volume. 175 00:10:24.240 --> 00:10:25.080 On a negative space. 176 00:10:25.139 --> 00:10:35.100 Lots of negative space. same in the steaming room and similar in the collector's office, which is a bit lighter, but you've got all those wonderful panels, which, again, are evoking that sun symbol. 177 00:10:35.159 --> 00:10:41.639 Yeah, and it works that kind of that kind of idea of just using flats and drapes works so well in celestial toy maker. 178 00:10:41.700 --> 00:10:43.799 It's obvious that it should have worked as well again. 179 00:10:43.860 --> 00:10:45.899 I'm absolutely giving no shrift on this. 180 00:10:45.960 --> 00:10:51.720 I mean, can we talk about this because this is a very, very angry Bob Holmes. 181 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:53.940 It's a great story. 182 00:10:54.480 --> 00:11:09.480 And it's part of a big tradition, which I think does start with, say, the savages or the macraterra, the happiness patrol, gridlock, where the doctor overthrows like a tyrannous regime in one day. 183 00:11:09.539 --> 00:11:14.700 He arrives and tears down a an evil political system. 184 00:11:14.820 --> 00:11:18.480 And all of these stories are really allegorical. 185 00:11:18.539 --> 00:11:22.200 All of these stories have just wafer thin premises. 186 00:11:22.259 --> 00:11:23.159 Do you know what I mean? 187 00:11:23.220 --> 00:11:33.419 Like, if you were, if you were sort of a crazy obsessive Doctor Who fan, Richard, would you be able to fit this into the sort of continuity of Earth's Empire? 188 00:11:33.480 --> 00:11:36.480 You know, at some point we all go to Pluto and then we all come back. 189 00:11:36.600 --> 00:11:37.799 You know we don't care. 190 00:11:37.860 --> 00:11:38.820 The premise. 191 00:11:38.879 --> 00:11:39.360 So far. 192 00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:43.200 Well, the point is, yeah, it's so far in the future, they don't even acknowledge an earth all that. 193 00:11:43.259 --> 00:11:47.879 Well, they do mention it and talk about going back to it, I think. as if it's a lost icon. 194 00:11:47.940 --> 00:11:49.559 But I like where you're going. 195 00:11:49.559 --> 00:11:55.919 And so what we have here, and the story goes that Holmes got a big tax bill, and he was really irritated. 196 00:11:55.980 --> 00:12:02.940 He's, you know, kind of politically conservative homes and we've been crossed in for various things in the past. 197 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:06.840 But this doesn't read as a satire of the tax system. 198 00:12:06.899 --> 00:12:10.139 This reads as an attack on capitalism. 199 00:12:10.200 --> 00:12:15.299 And the doctor overthrows a vicious capitalist regime just in one day. 200 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:17.879 So the company gets spoken of. 201 00:12:17.940 --> 00:12:33.659 It's not the government, it's the company, the collector talks sort of presciently like a, like an 80s Gordon gecko, an ongoing insurrectionary situation wouldn't be, you know, good for, you know, seen as positive for the company and stuff. 202 00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:36.720 He talks like a corporate drone. 203 00:12:36.779 --> 00:12:41.159 All of that sort of stuff, makes it read as an attack on capitalism. 204 00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:44.220 And it's really funny. 205 00:12:44.279 --> 00:12:45.720 It is just terrifically funny. 206 00:12:45.779 --> 00:12:48.179 It's packed full of hilarious lines. 207 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:49.919 It gives Leila something to do. 208 00:12:49.980 --> 00:13:02.700 The reason Louise likes it is those scenes at the beginning of episode two, where she's trying to encourage people to go and rescue the doctor, and, you know, everyone's a coward and stuff, and she's speaking in thundering, Shakespearean, iambic pentameters. 209 00:13:02.759 --> 00:13:03.659 Go on, Brendan, chime in. 210 00:13:03.779 --> 00:13:04.679 Revolution. 211 00:13:04.679 --> 00:13:05.580 Revolution. 212 00:13:05.639 --> 00:13:07.080 Yeah, hooray for Vicky. 213 00:13:07.139 --> 00:13:09.299 But no, I do I do love that scene as well. 214 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:13.799 And I especially love it for when Cordo volunteers and she says you're the bravest person here. 215 00:13:13.860 --> 00:13:15.419 Yeah, no, there's some beautiful lines. 216 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:16.019 I love Cordo. 217 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:19.860 The reason this is such a great script, and as you say, it's interesting to talk about presidents. 218 00:13:19.919 --> 00:13:23.580 But the reason this story works, and the other ones you've talked about working as well. 219 00:13:23.879 --> 00:13:26.519 It's always been a terrific story. 220 00:13:26.580 --> 00:13:34.679 It was a terrific story 25 years before when it was written. by Frederick Paul and Cyril Kornbluth in 1953. 221 00:13:34.860 --> 00:13:38.100 I had this, as I read a lot of SF as a teenager locked in my room. 222 00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:40.080 It was called the Space Merchants. 223 00:13:40.200 --> 00:13:42.240 And it was, it's a really stand up book. 224 00:13:42.299 --> 00:13:47.460 You can still get it in print, and you can certainly download it on whatever device you care to use. 225 00:13:47.519 --> 00:14:01.440 The reason it's so well known is that Kingsley Amos, the father of Martin Amos, the great literary critic and poet, and huge James Bond fan, we may well have mentioned him on Bondfinger, and I will so again. 226 00:14:01.500 --> 00:14:10.259 He called this book, The Space Merchants, the greatest SF novel in English, when it came out, and everybody else agreed, the Prime Minister agreed. 227 00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:11.759 It's about the basis of this. 228 00:14:11.820 --> 00:14:21.360 If you hadn't read it, is the advertisers running the world, and the consees, or conscious people, who are the consumables, the consumers, I should say, underneath. 229 00:14:21.419 --> 00:14:24.600 And it's almost plot line for, it is this story. 230 00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:31.379 And it's well recognised that it's, you know, by the folk at the BBC, and they thought, Oh, how witty of you to rewrite this. 231 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:34.620 And, of course, this whole period in Doctor Who was about rebooting. 232 00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:36.480 It's also the 1st revolution. 233 00:14:36.539 --> 00:14:37.259 I'll come back to it. 234 00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:41.039 It's the 1st revolution I think we've had since Reign of Terror of the Tellurians. 235 00:14:41.100 --> 00:14:42.539 I think the savages. 236 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:46.200 It reminds me of the savages, where they smashed the system in episode four. 237 00:14:46.259 --> 00:14:46.980 That's true. 238 00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:50.460 And kind of the crotons, but I get the gons aren't human. 239 00:14:50.519 --> 00:14:53.340 And really, the gods wouldn't have done it themselves. 240 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:55.559 It is like the Croton, though, isn't it? 241 00:14:55.620 --> 00:14:57.659 Because it is, it is mixing up. 242 00:14:57.779 --> 00:14:58.440 Homes is supposed to think. 243 00:14:58.500 --> 00:14:59.340 Yeah, exactly. 244 00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:00.240 Let's make us. 245 00:15:00.299 --> 00:15:02.039 Holmes has always been for an ex-cop. 246 00:15:02.100 --> 00:15:06.899 He's always been surprisingly really red flag. socialist. 247 00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:11.940 I think like Gene Roddenbury in a way, because Gene Roddenbury, creator of Star Trek, was an ex-police officer as well. 248 00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:14.460 No, there's something about having been on the street, isn't there? 249 00:15:14.519 --> 00:15:19.679 I think that's where that cynicism comes from that Holmes writes with. 250 00:15:19.740 --> 00:15:25.500 But he's taking it somewhere positive, like he does actually have a sort of proper message. 251 00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:28.500 And then next year he'll do an anti-colonialism thing. 252 00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:33.659 Like, we do think of him as a conservative, but these are surprisingly progressive stories for him. 253 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:48.899 Yeah, I think he's perhaps a conservative in the way that some people now are trying to distance, some conservatives now, I should say, are trying to distance themselves from the very right wing conservatism we see, where they say, I'm a conservative in the sense that I want people to have a family. 254 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:56.340 I don't care the makeup of that family, but I want people to have a family and people who love and support them, and I want people to be able to succeed on their own success. 255 00:15:56.399 --> 00:16:00.960 We've got Whigs and Tories again, as Thatcher wanted 19th century politics. 256 00:16:01.019 --> 00:16:01.440 Weve got it. 257 00:16:01.559 --> 00:16:01.740 Yeah. 258 00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:06.539 Something I want to say to illustrate Todd's question of who is the audience for this. 259 00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:08.039 It's a... 260 00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:11.700 The novelisation of this story was, of course, written by Terrence Dix. 261 00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:23.879 And it's kind of blow by blow what happens in the script, but there is a bit that Terence Sticks ads, which is towards the end when the work units, sorry, people, Cordo, throw the gatherer off the roof. 262 00:16:23.940 --> 00:16:25.379 I really like that. 263 00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:26.460 Because... 264 00:16:26.460 --> 00:16:28.980 It is pretty astounding to see as a child, yeah. 265 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:34.799 In the TV version, it ends with V saying, and we'll do the same to the collector when we see him. 266 00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:36.779 You know, gets a little bit Oliver. 267 00:16:36.779 --> 00:16:39.059 And his little dog. 268 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:42.840 But in the novel, after they throw him off, they kind of laugh. 269 00:16:42.899 --> 00:16:51.720 And when they finish laughing, everyone kind of looks at each other, with the sense that this has perhaps gone a little bit far, but a 1000 metres is a long way down. 270 00:16:51.779 --> 00:16:55.139 Oh, but that's just Terry being a bit conservative as well. 271 00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:56.399 Let's see. 272 00:16:56.460 --> 00:16:59.100 I like how we enjoy the revolution, in fact, in the story. 273 00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:07.259 I really like his sentiment and trying to teach morality to children, but I honestly think there'd been so much adrenaline, they would have found, what can we chuck next? 274 00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:14.880 Yeah, it's also, it, Cordo was going to throw himself off the roof in episode one and they throw gatherer made off the roof. 275 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:16.140 And that's the right thing to do. 276 00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:17.640 Oh, but this is my point. 277 00:17:17.700 --> 00:17:23.160 We can look at that as adults and understand the allegory and we can understand the link between those. 278 00:17:24.660 --> 00:17:31.259 But at this point, the show is still ostensibly being made for, as Tom Baker puts it, several levels. 279 00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:34.200 You know, you've got the six year old child who's scared of the monsters. 280 00:17:34.259 --> 00:17:37.980 You got the 10 year old child who's being brave because the 60 year old child is scared of the monsters. 281 00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:41.039 You've got the 15 year old laughing at them and you've got the parents saying, isn't that enjoyable? 282 00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:46.440 Really, I would say this story would more appeal just to the 15 year old and the adults. 283 00:17:46.500 --> 00:17:47.579 There's no monsters. 284 00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:52.200 God, now I'm Nathan. homes very frequently, doesn't do monsters. 285 00:17:52.259 --> 00:17:58.019 Yeah, we will talk about, we've talked about that before, but, you know, his 2 stories next year feature one monster. 286 00:17:58.079 --> 00:17:58.920 Yeah, yeah. 287 00:17:58.920 --> 00:18:00.480 You know, there's the magma creature. 288 00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:02.759 But that's the thing. 289 00:18:02.819 --> 00:18:05.819 I think design wise, this story is very much for children. 290 00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:07.319 People are in colourful outfits. 291 00:18:07.380 --> 00:18:11.279 Well, they're dressed as Lego mini figures presaging before they're ever invented. 292 00:18:11.339 --> 00:18:12.779 And it's canines first. 293 00:18:12.839 --> 00:18:15.000 Canine's actually... 294 00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:15.900 We should talk about canine. 295 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:17.460 Canine's actually pretty enjoyable in this. 296 00:18:17.579 --> 00:18:18.779 I really like this. 297 00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:21.000 I really like his cynicism and his pithiness. 298 00:18:21.059 --> 00:18:22.440 We discover he runs on batteries. 299 00:18:22.500 --> 00:18:23.700 I didn't actually know that before. 300 00:18:23.759 --> 00:18:26.940 I love the tail wagging and the tail drooping thing. 301 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:34.200 I think it's so cute and then Leila goes completely out of character and says, you know, canine announces that he's done something. 302 00:18:34.259 --> 00:18:35.519 What do you want, canine? 303 00:18:35.579 --> 00:18:36.240 A biscuit? 304 00:18:36.779 --> 00:18:39.720 But it's still it's still very, very witty. 305 00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:41.700 No, they you can see the actors. 306 00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:44.220 This is an actor's piece and it really works for actors. 307 00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:45.539 It's just such a sad thing. 308 00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:52.319 It's honestly, it's a minor point, but it just shows us what the medium is of Doctor Who and that there are lines you can't cross. 309 00:18:52.380 --> 00:18:53.940 It's a perfect theatre piece. 310 00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:57.480 And with black drops and simple lighting. 311 00:18:57.539 --> 00:18:59.099 It would have worked really well on stage. 312 00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:06.420 It requires an intimacy between the screen and the audience, and it doesn't achieve that. 313 00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:09.299 It actually pulls us away from the drama. 314 00:19:09.420 --> 00:19:10.200 We care little. 315 00:19:10.319 --> 00:19:13.319 The only person we really care about is Leila. 316 00:19:13.500 --> 00:19:17.099 Cordo, again, not necessarily. 317 00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:18.720 It's the way he's framed. 318 00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:24.180 It's interesting that, and the reason I mention metropolis and German expressionism is actually a reason. 319 00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:27.119 It's not called Megropolis for no other reason. 320 00:19:27.180 --> 00:19:28.680 There's lots of little motifs. 321 00:19:28.740 --> 00:19:36.180 The steam chamber that Leila is in is an exact copy of the sarcophagus that Maria the robot is in in Metropolis. 322 00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:36.960 There are lots. 323 00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:46.019 The way the controller, whoever it was, is holding the controls is exactly the same way that it's figured in Metropolis, if we look at that again. 324 00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:49.140 He's holding these big controls and spinning the things around. 325 00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:58.140 There's a way that lighting and direction can either stimulate intimacy or produce an intimacy, or it can actually pull you away, and that's it. 326 00:19:58.200 --> 00:20:03.119 It's only one thing about this story, but it's such a big thing that I have to agree with Todd on this. 327 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:04.680 I actually felt more of a separation. 328 00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:07.380 And it annoys me, because it shouldn't. 329 00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:12.119 And I remember, as a boy, thinking the novelisation, I like this story because of that. 330 00:20:12.180 --> 00:20:14.519 And latest performance is terrific. 331 00:20:14.579 --> 00:20:17.700 If Louise wasn't in this, I just don't know if it would go anywhere. 332 00:20:18.299 --> 00:20:20.519 I just think the script. 333 00:20:20.579 --> 00:20:24.180 I think the script is so clever that it. 334 00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:29.220 I mean, you know, this is Doctor Who, we used to ignoring kind of terrible sets and things. 335 00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:31.140 They're not always a separation. 336 00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:32.700 They're usually an integrative thing. 337 00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:46.500 We were talking about this earlier, that, you know, you often feel as if you're dressing up with your mates, or you're planting with your mates when you're watching it, when things go slightly wrong, it encourages a kind of sympathy for the, in the audience, for what's happening on screen, because we're laughing along with them. 338 00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:49.019 But I don't think that achieves it in this case. 339 00:20:49.079 --> 00:21:03.900 I mean, part of the Williams thing is that it is pitching itself older and it is, it doesn't have the budget and it doesn't really have the design ability and it's had a few spectacular fails already this season. 340 00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:05.220 Well, won. 341 00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:08.039 And so far this season. 342 00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:09.000 Yeah, so far this season. 343 00:21:09.059 --> 00:21:21.059 And it will sort of default to a mode that requires a little bit of irony, uh, and, you know, like an audience that it is in some way detach from it and aware of its tropes and all of that sort of thing. 344 00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:31.619 And so you're no longer really sympathising with the characters, but you're enjoying, you know, the story and the kind of raised eyebrow and just generally the attitude. 345 00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:44.519 And so here, there's all kinds of really terrifically funny lines, but you're not in a world that you can really believe, you know, you don't have any characters and so on to engage with, but I think it still works. 346 00:21:44.579 --> 00:21:46.319 I think it's still funny and entertaining. 347 00:21:46.380 --> 00:21:48.599 I think you've just hit on 2 things there. 348 00:21:48.660 --> 00:21:55.259 We're very much of an era of the postmodern theatre or the postmodern doctrine of theatre, and that we're critiquing while we're watching. 349 00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:57.480 You've just mentioned 2 very interesting things. 350 00:21:57.539 --> 00:22:02.279 The supercilious, ironic view, viewing back into it. 351 00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:04.319 I guess we're both actually saying the same thing. 352 00:22:04.380 --> 00:22:06.000 There's dissonance. 353 00:22:06.119 --> 00:22:07.500 Sontag writes about this. 354 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:10.859 Susan Sontag, the SAist, in 70s in postmodern theatre. 355 00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:13.440 It came from the French and from other people. 356 00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:19.079 Beckett, of course, as an English writer, is probably the best one to raise Samuel Beckett. 357 00:22:19.140 --> 00:22:31.859 But there's a point of the distancing, or an awareness of the void between the performance and the audience, which is meant to create drama and heightened level of tension in the audience member and discomfort. 358 00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:33.779 That shouldn't happen in doctor. 359 00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:35.579 Well, I don't think that does happen. 360 00:22:35.640 --> 00:22:44.039 I think, look, it's exemplified by Mary Tam next year who just sort of strolls through the thing raising her eyebrows and just enjoying... 361 00:22:44.099 --> 00:22:49.319 But we've very much part of Mary's view and we are, we're her silent, invisible companion next to her. 362 00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:56.759 I felt to presage what's going to be coming up with you and Todd and Brendan next year is that I'm always right there with Mary Tam as Romana. 363 00:22:56.819 --> 00:23:00.599 I don't feel it all separated or distanced by her ironic glance. 364 00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:06.779 I, I, I find it humourous and I'm encouraged to take that view within the drama. 365 00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:08.759 So because here there's no one quite like that. 366 00:23:08.819 --> 00:23:09.660 Is that the problem? 367 00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:16.799 I just honestly think there's a lot of cerebral attention, but there's not a lot of love if we can bring it back to what would Oprah do? 368 00:23:16.859 --> 00:23:25.079 There's not a lot of, There's love for the ideas and there's skill and there's wit, but I don't think there's a great deal of love for the audience. 369 00:23:25.140 --> 00:23:26.880 Everyone's realising how clever they all are. 370 00:23:26.940 --> 00:23:30.359 A sort of that old phrase of everyone's obviously having a good time. 371 00:23:30.420 --> 00:23:31.799 It'd be nice for us to have it too. 372 00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:37.859 That's how I felt, and I'd like to hear Todd's response, because I suspect that's how he was feeling, as well. 373 00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:40.980 But his obelisk has disappeared. 374 00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:41.819 I can't get him back. 375 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:43.440 What did you think, Brendan? 376 00:23:43.500 --> 00:23:53.220 Well, the funny thing, I see exactly all of what you're talking about, but like Nathan, for me, the script still brings it through. 377 00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:54.720 Is it enough to hold you? 378 00:23:54.779 --> 00:23:56.640 It's so funny. 379 00:23:56.700 --> 00:23:57.779 Yeah, I think you know what? 380 00:23:57.900 --> 00:23:58.319 think it is. 381 00:23:58.380 --> 00:24:05.700 But I will also admit, those scenes in the long white featureless corridors, it's only the close-ups that really hold my attention at the moment. 382 00:24:05.700 --> 00:24:07.980 It's like, great, Zoanna, and I said forward. 383 00:24:08.940 --> 00:24:11.940 Which you know were all dumb in rehearsals. 384 00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:13.019 Yeah, yeah. 385 00:24:13.079 --> 00:24:18.359 If you, obviously, if you watch this and go and make scones in the kitchen or something, just have this on in the other room, it's a great story. 386 00:24:18.420 --> 00:24:20.160 Yeah, you know what? 387 00:24:20.220 --> 00:24:22.799 It's never gonna be on my top 10 list, but it's a great... 388 00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:23.400 It should be, though. 389 00:24:23.460 --> 00:24:25.920 I'm not disagreeing with an athenist. 390 00:24:25.980 --> 00:24:28.740 This is a very interesting triumvirate today, isn't it? 391 00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:31.619 We're all sort of both disagree. all disagreeing and agreeing. 392 00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:33.240 I'd like to know what the listener thinks. 393 00:24:33.299 --> 00:24:35.220 What does our friend Greg Miller think about this? 394 00:24:35.279 --> 00:24:36.420 I'm sure you're writing. 395 00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:43.980 An old family friend of mine, who's sadly no longer with us, introduced me to a great term. when I was staying at her house one school holidays. 396 00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:48.420 She described Star Trek 4, The Voyage Home, as her ironing movie. 397 00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:53.099 You know, she'd put it on and she'd do the iron. 398 00:24:53.160 --> 00:24:55.380 And I think this is one of those Doctor Who stories as well. 399 00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:58.019 You can make the scones where you're doing, or you can do the ironing. 400 00:24:58.079 --> 00:25:02.160 And the thing is, every time you do sort of tune into it, You're going to get a witty line anyway. 401 00:25:02.460 --> 00:25:04.319 That is a great... 402 00:25:04.380 --> 00:25:06.119 I've got an ironing era. 403 00:25:06.180 --> 00:25:07.019 Oh, yes? 404 00:25:07.019 --> 00:25:08.400 It's the pertwee era. 405 00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:13.920 You've actually mentioned that before too, and I think I remember going, hmm, yeah. 406 00:25:14.099 --> 00:25:16.559 Because the outfits are so gorgeous. 407 00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:18.059 There's all that money and attention. 408 00:25:18.119 --> 00:25:23.819 I just, on Pertley's part, is being spent on his costumes, and we know that his last season, he's just worried about his outfits. 409 00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:24.960 Yes, yes. 410 00:25:25.019 --> 00:25:28.440 The nice thing here is that, look, Louise is fabulous in this. 411 00:25:28.500 --> 00:25:29.819 I really like the supporting cast. 412 00:25:29.880 --> 00:25:35.640 It's actually up there amongst my top 25 Doctor Who stories of all time. 413 00:25:35.700 --> 00:25:39.960 Let's go through that and give the listener great fun being able to read that on our book. 414 00:25:40.019 --> 00:25:42.299 We'll do that for Christmas. in reverse alphabetical order. 415 00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:43.380 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 416 00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:45.359 Because it is there, we all do that individually. 417 00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:46.680 It's a home story. 418 00:25:46.740 --> 00:25:48.839 So it can never be it can never really be wrong. 419 00:25:48.900 --> 00:25:56.039 But there's also that fine line of when he takes the piss and he does out of everyone and everything, including his performers. 420 00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:57.539 There's a little bit of distance. 421 00:25:57.599 --> 00:25:59.880 And at this point, for me, it's just grown that much too far. 422 00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:06.000 I would like to add, though, that I'm really surprised at the amount of compassion we're getting from homes, because we don't always get that. 423 00:26:06.059 --> 00:26:08.700 I don't think we're ever going to get it again in the future from him. 424 00:26:08.819 --> 00:26:10.319 But the 2 points. 425 00:26:10.380 --> 00:26:16.859 The one that you say that he was the one that was dead against, or was it Williams, the one that was dead against writing off Louise in this story. 426 00:26:17.700 --> 00:26:20.039 It's just a complete vault face. 427 00:26:20.099 --> 00:26:22.140 I'm really surprised to hear Holmes. 428 00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:27.299 Maybe he's learnt from the recent very recent lessons that you just don't do that to an audience of children. 429 00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:29.819 You can do it with Matthew Waterhouse. 430 00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:32.220 I'm really looking forward to seeing how we review that one because I know. 431 00:26:32.339 --> 00:26:33.059 Because he doesn't matter. 432 00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:35.700 Well, I don't think anyone can. 433 00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:37.200 Well, and also he's one of us. 434 00:26:37.319 --> 00:26:38.640 He was a 15 year old boy. 435 00:26:38.700 --> 00:26:40.619 And even teenagers don't like other teenagers. 436 00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:41.640 It's funny. 437 00:26:41.700 --> 00:26:48.240 It's funny you're saying that no one cares because when we get there, I have 2 stories about that of 2 people who cared a great deal about the... 438 00:26:48.299 --> 00:26:50.160 One of the one of whom is Matthew Waterhouse. 439 00:26:50.220 --> 00:26:51.900 Well, 3 then in that case. 440 00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:55.319 Okay, but back to this one. 441 00:26:55.380 --> 00:27:01.740 You know, I mean, we talked about this being a revolutionary thing, but the Usurians who obviously get their name. 442 00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:05.519 Yeah, yeah, from the practice of charging interest. 443 00:27:05.579 --> 00:27:09.240 When the collector looks the doctor up in his database. 444 00:27:09.299 --> 00:27:13.079 He learns that the doctor has a long history of violence and economic subversion. 445 00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:16.559 And that the time lords are not bankable to deal with. 446 00:27:16.619 --> 00:27:19.799 What the hell were they ever considering dealing with the time laws? 447 00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:20.880 And how do they know this information? 448 00:27:20.940 --> 00:27:25.980 Did the time laws actually have some kind of congress with these seaweed? 449 00:27:25.980 --> 00:27:27.839 Because they're actually a fungus, aren't they? 450 00:27:27.900 --> 00:27:30.119 They're a fungus with eyeballs. very Kenny Everett. 451 00:27:30.180 --> 00:27:41.460 Well, yeah, no, I think I think it's just homes being rude about the time once again. and smashed them up in the deadly assassin, he's just going to be brutal about how ineffectual they are. 452 00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:46.859 And of course, it does spoiler alert and kind of prefigure what we get at the end of the season. 453 00:27:46.920 --> 00:27:48.119 It does. 454 00:27:48.180 --> 00:27:50.819 And I'd actually like to go backwards as well. 455 00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:58.200 Have you realised that it's the only other race that uses the term Tulurians, other Lermans and Carnival of Monsters? 456 00:27:58.259 --> 00:27:58.980 Yeah. 457 00:27:58.980 --> 00:28:08.160 So I would really like to think that the Urians and the Lermans are somehow related, and that, you know, free collective bargaining is the greatest sin in the galaxy. 458 00:28:08.519 --> 00:28:12.720 The TGP, the transgalactic pact. 459 00:28:13.859 --> 00:28:16.019 Sure, we know more of that. 460 00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:17.460 Well, we never heard anything about it. 461 00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:18.180 It's a secret. 462 00:28:18.180 --> 00:28:29.160 Something I love about the end of this story, of course, is that, you know, you've had the science fiction trope in Doctor Who before, of Doctor Talks a computer to death. 463 00:28:29.220 --> 00:28:31.440 So, you know, we had that in the green death. 464 00:28:31.559 --> 00:28:33.180 Yeah, I blame Zoe for that. 465 00:28:34.140 --> 00:28:35.220 She started it, didn't she? 466 00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:40.619 We kind of had that in the face of evil, although he also zapped it to death with some buttons. 467 00:28:40.680 --> 00:28:42.720 Here, the doctor doesn't talk the computer to death. 468 00:28:42.779 --> 00:28:44.640 The computer talks, the villain to death. 469 00:28:45.180 --> 00:28:47.039 Yeah, what does he do? 470 00:28:47.099 --> 00:28:52.440 He feeds a small, you know, negative growth rate into or something. 471 00:28:52.500 --> 00:28:52.799 Yeah, yeah. 472 00:28:52.859 --> 00:28:56.160 He makes him buy a house in Sydney and then undercharge for the rent. 473 00:28:56.220 --> 00:29:03.180 It is, it's that crazy thing making fun of economics and it is something that will become standard in the 1980s. 474 00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:04.380 It's a bit early for it here. 475 00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:07.440 But, you know, there's too many economists in the government. 476 00:29:07.500 --> 00:29:11.279 You know, my dear, what you need is a wily accountant. 477 00:29:11.700 --> 00:29:17.400 All of that sort of terribly funny stuff about economics which Doctor Who has never gone to before. 478 00:29:17.460 --> 00:29:20.579 And here it is just a few years too early. 479 00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:23.400 That point you raised about sympathy. 480 00:29:23.460 --> 00:29:26.279 You feel sympathy for every character, except the collector. 481 00:29:26.339 --> 00:29:27.720 You even feel sympathy for the gatherer. 482 00:29:27.779 --> 00:29:29.160 And how good is Henry Wolf? 483 00:29:29.220 --> 00:29:30.299 We've really got to throw in. 484 00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:32.400 It is that thing, you know, we've had this thing. 485 00:29:32.460 --> 00:29:42.240 It's going to come up because it's a Williams era theme where they'll write a funny script and then the actors will come in and mug and do big voices and be terribly silly. 486 00:29:42.359 --> 00:29:44.519 But here it really works. 487 00:29:44.579 --> 00:29:51.420 Like both gather a hate and the collector are huge comedy performances, but they work. 488 00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:56.279 And I think it works so well because Marn is played so straight. 489 00:29:57.119 --> 00:29:59.700 And she's just got all those reactions in the background of... 490 00:29:59.819 --> 00:30:01.019 Oh God, are you really doing? 491 00:30:01.079 --> 00:30:01.259 Okay. 492 00:30:01.380 --> 00:30:05.640 And she's perfect Hitchcock's sitcom society blonde. 493 00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:10.200 She's the budget Grace Kelly in this. her role is to be impassive and lovely. 494 00:30:10.259 --> 00:30:14.759 It's almost Felicity Kendall, Penelope Keith era, sitcom stuff, isn't it? 495 00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:17.640 Henry Wolfe, who's the collector, you know? 496 00:30:17.700 --> 00:30:28.259 I mean, he's just terrific in all of those sort of huge, pompous, homes-y and things that gather, hey, does like calling him your enormity and your corpulence and stuff like that. 497 00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:32.759 It's just terrific, just terribly funny, and it doesn't undermine the satire. 498 00:30:32.819 --> 00:30:35.279 He's still with us, you know, Henry Wolf. 499 00:30:35.339 --> 00:30:37.079 What about who's Gatherer Hay? 500 00:30:37.140 --> 00:30:40.380 No, Gatherer Hade, Richard Beach has passed on, sadly. 501 00:30:40.440 --> 00:30:44.160 But no, Henry Wolf is still with us. and still acting. 502 00:30:44.279 --> 00:31:01.799 Yeah, Henry Wolf was appearing in a show called Words and Pictures, as the librarian helping children to read, and in Rutland weekend television, which was kind of like an early version of the far show or something, a faux review show, as various con men and transvestite continuity announcers. 503 00:31:01.980 --> 00:31:04.500 Right while this was all. 504 00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:07.200 It was like frocking up as Joyce Grenfell or something. 505 00:31:07.259 --> 00:31:08.700 I can only wish. 506 00:31:08.940 --> 00:31:10.259 It's been a while. 507 00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:26.099 Well, we're taking off from Pluto now. 508 00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:28.559 That's all the time we have for the Sunmakers. 509 00:31:28.619 --> 00:31:34.559 We will be back next week to take on Doctor Who's biggest adventure in CSO ever, underworld. 510 00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:35.759 I'm very excited. 511 00:31:35.819 --> 00:31:38.940 Yeah, I can feel the excitement from here. 512 00:31:39.000 --> 00:31:47.160 Please do check us out at flightthroughentirety.com, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on Twitter. 513 00:31:47.220 --> 00:31:51.779 You can also check us out on Bondfinger, where we have a variety of comedy and drunkenness. 514 00:31:51.839 --> 00:32:00.539 About the 1st few Sean Connery James Bond films, you can find that at bondfinger.com, bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes and bondfinger cast on Twitter. 515 00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:02.519 We were never as drunk as Connery was. 516 00:32:03.960 --> 00:32:06.839 I think between us though, we've got enough hair. 517 00:32:06.900 --> 00:32:08.460 Just. 518 00:32:08.579 --> 00:32:11.220 Don't leave it in too long ago, frizzy. 519 00:32:11.400 --> 00:32:16.859 Until next week, may none of your steam balds be controlled by a bunch of CK with eyes. 520 00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:17.940 Thank you very much and good night. 521 00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:18.599 Good night. 522 00:32:18.720 --> 00:32:19.680 Good, everyone. 523 00:32:20.940 --> 00:32:26.940 That was Flight Your Entirety with Nathan Buttonley, Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone. 524 00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:32.579 This episode, Don't You Feel Every single centimetre was recorded on the 11th of October, 2015. 525 00:32:32.759 --> 00:32:35.819 The next episode will be released on November 22nd. 526 00:32:35.880 --> 00:32:38.160 I can sympathise with the collector. 527 00:32:38.460 --> 00:32:42.480 I get a real feeling of job satisfaction when my broccoli is perfectly steamed. 528 00:32:45.539 --> 00:32:48.599 I think it's the phones interfering with... 529 00:32:48.660 --> 00:32:49.259 It could be, yeah. 530 00:32:49.319 --> 00:32:50.819 Okay, it seems to be all right. 531 00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:56.880 I won't be able to teleport up in an emergency if my Apple Watch is on airplane mode. 532 00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:01.200 County, counterport. 533 00:33:05.099 --> 00:33:17.160 I love how when Backfinish started doing Liberated Chronicles. everyone complained, you've recreated the teleport sound, and they had to be very diplomatic and say, that's because it comes under the auspices of a piece of music. 534 00:33:17.220 --> 00:33:26.220 It doesn't exist as a clean recording, and we would have to pay the original composer for its use, and that's all sorts of legal, trouble where we could. 535 00:33:26.279 --> 00:33:26.880 So do they... 536 00:33:26.940 --> 00:33:28.440 They remade the sound of it. 537 00:33:28.500 --> 00:33:29.819 They remade the sound and sound different. 538 00:33:29.940 --> 00:33:31.440 Very slightly. 539 00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:34.680 You know, it sounds like a really clean version of the recording. 540 00:33:34.740 --> 00:33:36.779 I don't remember it sounding that different. 541 00:33:36.900 --> 00:33:38.400 I've heard the whole 1st season. 542 00:33:38.460 --> 00:33:41.640 It's a bit like their... love them. 543 00:33:41.700 --> 00:33:43.259 Yeah, they're better. 544 00:33:43.319 --> 00:33:45.000 But look at what you're comparing to. 545 00:33:45.059 --> 00:33:46.920 They give everyone better work. 546 00:33:46.980 --> 00:33:49.680 Cali is a much more interestingly written character. 547 00:33:49.740 --> 00:33:51.119 Yeah, so they got Jan Chappell. 548 00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:51.720 It's everybody. 549 00:33:51.779 --> 00:33:55.019 Yeah, that everyone who's alive, except... 550 00:33:55.079 --> 00:33:56.099 Is that Simon? 551 00:33:56.160 --> 00:33:58.380 Because she's not in that season. 552 00:33:58.440 --> 00:33:59.759 She is coming up though. 553 00:33:59.819 --> 00:34:01.140 Yeah, well, season two. 554 00:34:01.619 --> 00:34:04.920 They've done a season 3 set as well. 555 00:34:04.920 --> 00:34:07.500 Forget Angela Bruce back again. 556 00:34:07.559 --> 00:34:11.460 Well, no, the whole thing is Dana has taken an escateboard and no one knows where she's gone. 557 00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:17.099 So it's the search for Dana and she's replaced by Tom Shadbon as Dell Grant. 558 00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:18.420 Really? 559 00:34:18.480 --> 00:34:18.780 Wow. 560 00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:20.699 That's so crap. 561 00:34:20.940 --> 00:34:26.280 I'm actually really positive about everything. leave it in.