WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:23:33 1 00:00:28.739 --> 00:00:38.579 Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast which never suffers from scringes, no matter how cold it may be. 2 00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:39.179 I'm Brendan. 3 00:00:39.240 --> 00:00:40.020 I'm Nathan. 4 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:41.640 And I'm Romana Voltana. 5 00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:43.200 Or Todd. 6 00:00:43.259 --> 00:00:45.719 We might just have to call you Fred. 7 00:00:45.780 --> 00:00:48.060 We are heading into the key to time season now. 8 00:00:48.119 --> 00:00:51.659 Robert Holmes is back on writing duties for the Rebos operation. 9 00:00:55.560 --> 00:00:58.799 Are you sure you pronounce that correctly, Brendan? 10 00:00:58.859 --> 00:01:00.539 No, so I went for both in one. 11 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:03.299 I started saying ribos, and then I switched to Reebos. 12 00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:05.640 Shall we just call it rhubois? 13 00:01:05.700 --> 00:01:06.840 Like the tea? 14 00:01:06.900 --> 00:01:08.459 Is that how you pronounce that? 15 00:01:08.519 --> 00:01:13.439 We have Graham Williams' 1st full season that he's commissioned from start to finish. 16 00:01:13.500 --> 00:01:19.920 And straight away, it's very different from other seasons because the doctor is sent on a mission by the White Guardian. 17 00:01:20.040 --> 00:01:25.560 So, it's been observed before that the doctor gradually outgrows his bosses. 18 00:01:25.620 --> 00:01:36.359 So, you know, he works for unit and he's outgrown unit, and he has that speech at the beginning of Pyramids of Mars, where he declares that he's not interested in sort of running around after them anymore. 19 00:01:36.420 --> 00:01:45.299 And then the time lords, and he's now been to the time lords planet, and they've been completely shorn of mystery, and so he's outgrown them. 20 00:01:45.359 --> 00:01:48.420 And so he's got a new set of bosses, the Guardians. 21 00:01:48.480 --> 00:01:49.859 What do you think of them? 22 00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:59.099 I've got to say, the 1st scene with Cyril Luckam sort of sitting in the city in the wicker chair on the kind of top of the pops bush landscape. 23 00:01:59.159 --> 00:02:00.299 Uh, he's great. 24 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:03.120 I really, really like him. 25 00:02:03.180 --> 00:02:13.259 And the wonderful thing is, he has so much menace. just in his performance, like that whole thing of, you know, what will happen to me if I refuse nothing at all. 26 00:02:13.319 --> 00:02:14.580 Ever. 27 00:02:14.879 --> 00:02:19.259 No, he's just the right mix of camp and threatening. 28 00:02:19.319 --> 00:02:25.740 What I find most interesting is the whole genesis of the idea of the Guardians. 29 00:02:25.740 --> 00:02:40.259 Graham Williams, coming into Doctor Who was a producer, felt that it was very irresponsible to have a hero who did not have some kind of heroic mission to accomplish and had no responsibility. 30 00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:43.500 You know, could just run around doing whatever they liked and weren't answerable to anyone. 31 00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:57.539 So he was actually going to try to have some sort of overarching responsibility for the doctor in his 1st season, but they were so up against it as we discussed a few weeks ago with a horror of fang rock being a replacement script and underworld and the invasion of time. 32 00:02:57.599 --> 00:03:03.539 Oh, God, that he didn't have time to implement it for that, but he decided to implement it for this season. 33 00:03:03.599 --> 00:03:06.360 So this is part of his pitch to become producer. 34 00:03:06.419 --> 00:03:07.439 Yeah, yeah. 35 00:03:07.500 --> 00:03:08.699 Give the doctor a mission. 36 00:03:08.759 --> 00:03:19.979 But it's interesting, like you've got these guardians and the key to time, and I always think about, well, then, well, who created the key to time, and is it just some little game that they like to play between themselves, or is there somebody above them? 37 00:03:20.039 --> 00:03:22.500 Yeah, the whole I think the whole thing's a bit stupid. 38 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:27.539 I mean, the Armageddon factor calls it Guardian technology, the key to time. 39 00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:29.280 So it's something that the Guardians created. 40 00:03:29.639 --> 00:03:31.860 But to keep themselves in check. 41 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:32.939 Well, I suppose. 42 00:03:32.939 --> 00:03:34.319 It is very strange. 43 00:03:34.379 --> 00:03:39.539 And certainly the fake out in that beginning scene is that it's God. don't you think? 44 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:40.860 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 45 00:03:40.919 --> 00:03:41.639 It's meant to be God. 46 00:03:41.699 --> 00:03:50.699 God, and God is now calling on the doctor to do a mission for him and there's, you know, the heavenly light flooding in and organ music and that kind of thing. 47 00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:57.840 It's the scene that Holmes has now done twice before, where the doctor is briefed on his mission. 48 00:03:57.840 --> 00:03:59.400 Previously, it's been the Time Lord. 49 00:03:59.460 --> 00:04:05.879 So in Terror of the Autons, and then again, in Genesis of the Daleks, which, you know, Holmes was script editing. 50 00:04:05.939 --> 00:04:08.219 You know, we get a big info dump. 51 00:04:08.280 --> 00:04:09.060 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 52 00:04:09.120 --> 00:04:10.680 And the doctor gets sent on a mission. 53 00:04:10.740 --> 00:04:14.580 And the mission is kind of crummy, I think. 54 00:04:15.180 --> 00:04:16.560 Really? 55 00:04:16.620 --> 00:04:20.040 We will talk about it as we go along, I think. 56 00:04:20.100 --> 00:04:26.459 And the whole thing is sort of brought up horribly short by, you know, a disastrous final story to the season. 57 00:04:26.519 --> 00:04:33.180 And a massive rejection of the whole idea of going on a mission, the very, very last scene of the season is the doctor. 58 00:04:33.240 --> 00:04:34.439 Well, we're getting ahead of ourselves. 59 00:04:34.439 --> 00:04:35.699 We are getting ahead of ourselves. 60 00:04:35.759 --> 00:04:40.560 But there is a very, very definite rejection of the whole idea of going on a mission. 61 00:04:40.620 --> 00:04:46.259 And fortunately, the mission doesn't particularly impact the stories all that much. 62 00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:48.060 No, no, it really doesn't. 63 00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:52.019 And I want to come back to that as well when we get to season 18. 64 00:04:52.199 --> 00:04:54.300 So if I forget, please remind me. 65 00:04:54.360 --> 00:04:58.620 Also worth mentioning at this point is Ian Marty's novelisation. 66 00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:03.300 I listened to it read by John Leeson, I believe. read by John Leeson, that's right. 67 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:06.660 I'll do anything for the podcast and it's really good. 68 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:07.800 Yeah, yeah. 69 00:05:07.860 --> 00:05:28.439 I particularly love, because, of course, the TV story just starts with the doctors built canine Mark 2, who, contrary to expectations, looks exactly the same as the original one, because that's why we just saw a box at the end of the last story, because Matt Irvin and Ian Scoon said, oh, we'll redesign it, and Graham Williams thought they meant the outside, but they just meant the innards. 70 00:05:28.500 --> 00:05:29.879 It is much quieter. 71 00:05:29.939 --> 00:05:33.060 It is much quieter, much, much quieter, and a bit nimbler. 72 00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:38.639 Although there are lots of scenes where the doctor and Oman are running and there's no way that... 73 00:05:38.699 --> 00:05:40.079 Yeah. 74 00:05:40.139 --> 00:05:46.259 There's a lot of scenes where they'll start with canine in front of the group and they'll stop and have their conversation and then they'll have to run. 75 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:50.160 So canine only has to go about a metre and they still outrun him. 76 00:05:50.220 --> 00:06:00.120 But Ian Marty's version of that is the doctor's built canine sort of far away from the Godsole room and then comes to the Godzilla Room to test the dog whistle, but he doesn't realise the dog whistles ultrasonic. 77 00:06:00.180 --> 00:06:08.699 So he almost passes out blowing into the dog whistle for 5 minutes straight, trying to get it to make a noise and canine comes in and essentially says, I can hear you. 78 00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:10.860 And of course then... 79 00:06:11.579 --> 00:06:13.740 Mary Tam turns up. 80 00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:16.439 What do we think of Mary? 81 00:06:16.500 --> 00:06:24.720 We've actually met Mary, which is kind of exciting, and that will play into the podcast from time to time, particularly when we talk about her outfits, I think. 82 00:06:24.779 --> 00:06:29.939 I did allude to that in my introduction, calling her Romana Voltana. 83 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:33.959 That's a little convention anecdote, which I'll probably drop in at some point. 84 00:06:34.019 --> 00:06:44.459 But, you know, she turns up with this bun hedge, which always reminds me of Dana Troy in season one of Star Trek, The Next Generation, and I think looks absolutely awful. 85 00:06:44.519 --> 00:06:49.560 But then in the very next scene, the hair's down, and she's got the brush and doing it. 86 00:06:49.620 --> 00:06:52.860 It's just so glamorous and wonderful. 87 00:06:53.459 --> 00:06:56.939 So she's a reaction to Leila, isn't she? 88 00:06:57.000 --> 00:06:57.899 Yeah, Sand. 89 00:06:57.959 --> 00:07:06.720 So, Leila was, there was a kind of sort of patronising subtext to Leila, where she was being civilised by the doctor, which was sort of slightly offensive, really. 90 00:07:06.779 --> 00:07:11.939 But here, she's the doctor's equal, and he's better than him in some respects. 91 00:07:12.060 --> 00:07:13.019 Yeah, absolutely. 92 00:07:13.079 --> 00:07:16.500 Initially, they did consider bringing Rodan back. 93 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:28.560 Which is, you know, not surprising since, you know, there's some of those scenes, of course, have already discussed, that there's a rapport there when she's inside the Tartars, but in the invasion of time, yeah. 94 00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:30.839 You can see that she's a prototype remark. 95 00:07:30.959 --> 00:07:32.339 Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. 96 00:07:32.399 --> 00:07:45.540 In a way, I'm glad they didn't because I think Mary's much better, but there was nothing wrong. with the performance in that I think it is significant, and I have a lot of respect to Anthony Reid in scripted, bringing back Robert Holmes to introduce a brand new companion. 97 00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:53.879 He's been there for every major introduction for the 1970s, whether scripting it, or whether it be script editor for all the companions. 98 00:07:53.939 --> 00:08:02.459 All of the companions had been introduced in the first story of the season except for Leila, but that was even billed as the first story of the season. 99 00:08:02.579 --> 00:08:05.040 And I think it is something that's significant. 100 00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:10.319 You know, in the 1970s, beginning of the season, new companion people end, the new series does the same thing. 101 00:08:10.379 --> 00:08:13.139 The '80s breaks that, you know? 102 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:16.079 And that might have some sort of impact, which we discussed later on. 103 00:08:16.139 --> 00:08:21.060 And this is the last major time that a brand new companion is introduced by homes. 104 00:08:21.060 --> 00:08:27.600 Next year, we do get a new actress playing Romana, but it's still Romana, you know? 105 00:08:27.660 --> 00:08:31.560 And she was introduced in the previous series. this is really the last time that this sort of happens. 106 00:08:31.620 --> 00:08:37.559 And, I mean, what's especially amazing about Robert Holmes writing for this season is you have Robert Holmes writing for this season. 107 00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:43.980 You have Douglas Adams, who is new to professional writing at the point he writes the Pirate Planet. 108 00:08:44.039 --> 00:08:47.700 You've got David Fisher and you've got... 109 00:08:47.700 --> 00:08:48.299 Oh, God. 110 00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:50.820 Bob Baker and Dave Martin. 111 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:51.480 That's right. 112 00:08:51.539 --> 00:08:53.039 So, really? 113 00:08:53.100 --> 00:08:58.980 In terms of writers, because Bob Baker and Dave Martin, they're essentially one writer. producing one piece. 114 00:08:59.039 --> 00:09:07.379 There's 2 experienced writers this season and 2 writers completely new to Doctor One completely new to television. 115 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:11.700 You know, it's quite, it's quite a bold season in that regard. 116 00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:17.159 So it is very important to get homes in to kick off the whole thing, because we have this very new structure of the doctor having a mission. 117 00:09:17.220 --> 00:09:20.700 We got a new companion, and we've got a whole bunch of inexperienced people coming in. 118 00:09:20.759 --> 00:09:29.940 We've got Tom, who's becoming increasingly disenfranchised with the role, and we'll talk more during the Armageddon factor about the fact that this was almost Tom's last season. 119 00:09:30.059 --> 00:09:31.500 Was? 120 00:09:31.559 --> 00:09:32.460 It was. 121 00:09:32.519 --> 00:09:37.259 He was really not happy with the way things were underground Williams, but we're getting ahead of ourselves. 122 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:38.279 Let's get back to Rebos. 123 00:09:38.340 --> 00:09:40.919 Can we talk more about Mary? 124 00:09:40.980 --> 00:09:42.059 Oh, yeah. 125 00:09:43.259 --> 00:09:43.679 Yeah, we can. 126 00:09:43.740 --> 00:09:47.940 I think we just need to rename this podcast, the Mary Tam half hour. frankly. 127 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:51.960 You know, Louise was a really actorly performance. 128 00:09:52.019 --> 00:09:52.860 Do you know what I mean? 129 00:09:52.919 --> 00:10:01.559 And I thought that like her quality as a companion varied according to who was writing, and she was very frequently written for very badly. 130 00:10:01.620 --> 00:10:10.919 But it was a very, very, sort of strong actorly performance, and sunmakers in particular, I think, you know, she really shines and horrifying rock, and there are a few others. 131 00:10:11.580 --> 00:10:17.159 Mary's performance isn't really an acting performance, particularly, I think. 132 00:10:17.279 --> 00:10:26.340 And, and, you know, it's long being said that Tom is a performer rather than an actor, and he's compelling. 133 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:28.679 Like there's that's no slight to Tom. 134 00:10:28.740 --> 00:10:35.820 He's, you know, he lights up the screen, you know, and relentlessly plays everyone else off the screen when he's there. 135 00:10:35.879 --> 00:10:38.879 I think Mary's kind of responding to that. 136 00:10:38.940 --> 00:10:46.080 I gather she is actually a good actor, but there's not really much evidence of that in the stories themselves. 137 00:10:46.139 --> 00:10:52.259 And so what she tends to bring is a sort of ironic distance to the whole proceeding. 138 00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:53.100 Yeah, yeah. 139 00:10:53.159 --> 00:11:00.539 I've always viewed it as, and unlike the 2 of you, I never had the pleasure of meeting Mary Tam, but I've always felt like seeing her in interviews and whatnot. 140 00:11:00.600 --> 00:11:02.039 Mary Tam is not playing Romana. 141 00:11:02.100 --> 00:11:07.200 Mary Tam is playing Mary Tam and Romana becomes Mary Tam because of Mary Tam's force of will. 142 00:11:07.259 --> 00:11:13.320 You know, she's always reminded me a bit of Mary Tyler Moore in that way, who brought a lot of herself to her characters. 143 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:17.100 Yeah, I think we're just seeing Mary Tam on screen, but I don't have a problem with that. 144 00:11:17.159 --> 00:11:19.320 No, no, because she's so fun to watch. 145 00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:27.960 She's wonderful and that's something that this season has, is that it is just incredibly fun up until nearly the last moment. 146 00:11:28.019 --> 00:11:33.000 Well, even so, I think, I think Mary and Tom are the 2 who keep it kicking along. 147 00:11:33.059 --> 00:11:37.919 Yeah, even when it's struggling, you know, their rapport is just wonderful. 148 00:11:37.980 --> 00:11:40.799 I just I just love her throughout this entire thing. 149 00:11:40.860 --> 00:11:46.860 I was really, really surprised at how much I actually adore the performance that she gives. 150 00:11:46.919 --> 00:11:48.659 It is really enjoyable, isn't it? 151 00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:54.000 She's a bit stilted in the 1st few Tartar scenes, but then once she gets out into reboss itself. 152 00:11:54.059 --> 00:11:59.279 I think she, or the next recording block, she begins to loosen up and I think has a bit more fun with it. 153 00:11:59.340 --> 00:12:07.379 But I just love some of the stuff that Romana comes out with, it just tickles my fancy, especially when she said she was willing to be impressed with a doctor. 154 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:09.960 And Tom's reaction is this indeed. 155 00:12:10.019 --> 00:12:14.039 And the way he says it's like, he's never said that word or anything like that ever before. 156 00:12:14.100 --> 00:12:15.960 I just think it's Tom Baker shining through. 157 00:12:16.019 --> 00:12:28.860 Like we talked about ages ago about, you know, the doctor becoming poetry and pertury becoming the doctor, and I kind of feel that there's moments certainly now during this season, and it was coming through last year, that that's happening to Tom a lot more. 158 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:31.919 And that one moment in the times when she says that and he reacts. 159 00:12:31.980 --> 00:12:33.600 I just crack up every single time. 160 00:12:33.659 --> 00:12:40.740 Well, I suppose from a character point of view, you know, Sarah obviously looked up to the doctor greatly. 161 00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:46.139 Perhaps not idolised him, but certainly would sort of stand back and bask. 162 00:12:46.200 --> 00:12:48.840 And she would also make apologies and concessions for him. 163 00:12:48.899 --> 00:12:52.259 Like, oh, sometimes he talks to himself because he's the only one who knows what he's talking about. 164 00:12:52.320 --> 00:13:03.659 Leila, of course, was in awe of him because he was God to her tribe, you know, and eventually she got round to the fact that, okay, he's not a god, but he's still very impressive. 165 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:05.279 You are a timelord. 166 00:13:05.340 --> 00:13:10.259 Yeah, she does start to take the Mick out of a bit, but still, she's really, really impressed by him. 167 00:13:10.320 --> 00:13:13.980 So for Romana to say, I was almost ready to be impressed. 168 00:13:14.039 --> 00:13:18.419 This is the 1st time in this incarnation where someone's just gone, yeah, I'm not buying it. 169 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:19.440 I'm not buying it. 170 00:13:19.500 --> 00:13:19.980 Sorry, love. 171 00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:30.480 All of that hilarious sort of psychoanalysis that she's subjective to, which is, you know, very homes, you know, Whitty Holmes dialogue is really, really fun and turns the tables. 172 00:13:30.539 --> 00:13:32.279 It doesn't really last. 173 00:13:32.340 --> 00:13:33.299 You know what I mean? 174 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:40.919 They do become like a great team together and they get to share exposition and they get to work together and things and all of that really works. 175 00:13:42.480 --> 00:13:47.460 But I like the fact that it doesn't become nasty or narky. 176 00:13:47.580 --> 00:13:48.360 Yes, yes. 177 00:13:48.360 --> 00:13:50.279 When it could potentially have gone down that road. 178 00:13:50.340 --> 00:13:51.000 Yeah. 179 00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:51.659 Yeah. 180 00:13:51.720 --> 00:13:52.740 No, they're not oppositional. 181 00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:53.820 They do get on quite well. 182 00:13:53.879 --> 00:13:59.759 I mean, there's no real warmth or anything like that between them in the way that there was with Tom and Lear's. 183 00:13:59.820 --> 00:14:01.320 But that doesn't matter. 184 00:14:01.379 --> 00:14:05.220 You know, I think they're all just a little bit too detached at this point in the program. 185 00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:11.399 Yeah, there's there's a mutual, a mutual respect, I suppose. 186 00:14:11.460 --> 00:14:16.799 The comparison that Tom and Mary always made was Spencer Tracy and Catherine Hepburn. 187 00:14:16.860 --> 00:14:18.960 And there's a there's a little bit of that. 188 00:14:19.019 --> 00:14:23.100 You know, I think we're back to one of our pert we episodes, which is you're not Catherine Hepburn. 189 00:14:23.700 --> 00:14:30.419 But you can still see where they are getting that idea. 190 00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:32.399 I don't think they're trying to emulate it. 191 00:14:32.460 --> 00:14:37.200 I think they're just trying to go for the same pitch it at the same kind of level. 192 00:14:37.259 --> 00:14:40.259 Yeah, something sophisticated, a little bit oppositional. 193 00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:41.399 Do you know what I mean? 194 00:14:41.460 --> 00:14:42.000 funny. 195 00:14:42.299 --> 00:14:44.220 Can I ask a question? 196 00:14:44.279 --> 00:14:48.840 What did you think of this story as a kid when you 1st saw it? 197 00:14:48.899 --> 00:14:53.399 I wasn't a huge fan, actually. that's your experience as well isn't it? 198 00:14:53.460 --> 00:14:54.539 It's totally my experience. 199 00:14:54.600 --> 00:14:56.759 I was like with the previous season. 200 00:14:56.879 --> 00:14:58.860 There's stories that I just would forget about. 201 00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:07.559 And in this, I just remembered Romana in the big white fluffy thing, the shrivenzal, and that pit that it's in that they have to escape from. 202 00:15:07.620 --> 00:15:11.519 I remember that shrieking woman making predictions and everything else. 203 00:15:11.580 --> 00:15:18.240 I remember that boring guy, what's his name, Binroe, and some guy who looked like somebody off play school. 204 00:15:18.299 --> 00:15:19.500 And that's all I really remembered. 205 00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:21.419 And I just was underwhelmed by it. 206 00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:26.580 It was a story that I never really thought much about and it just sort of washed over me and whenever I saw it. 207 00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:31.379 But now I think it's spectacular and maybe the best one of the season. 208 00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:44.700 And I can see why why it's not very kid friendly because it is that Bob Holmes thing where you have one kind of crummy monster just to remind you that it's Doctor Who. you know, this week, the role of the giant rat will be played by the Shrivenzaal. 209 00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:48.539 But mostly it's about interactions between people. 210 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:49.139 Yeah, yeah. 211 00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:50.940 But the people are all great. 212 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:54.179 See, I always loved this one as a child. 213 00:15:54.299 --> 00:15:56.580 This was one of my go tos. as a kid. 214 00:15:56.940 --> 00:15:59.759 He's got better taste than us, I think, clearly. 215 00:15:59.820 --> 00:16:08.340 You see, for me, the key to time season is very strange, because as a kid, I only had the reboss operation, the Pirate Planet, and Stones of Blood. 216 00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:09.600 They're the best three. 217 00:16:09.659 --> 00:16:12.539 The last three, I didn't see until I was about 19. 218 00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:16.259 Right. which will become significant when we get to those. 219 00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:19.500 But yeah, this was one that I constantly loved watching. 220 00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:25.679 And the Shrivenzar didn't particularly scare me, but I didn't think it was particularly crap. 221 00:16:25.740 --> 00:16:27.240 I think it's much better than the giant rat. 222 00:16:27.299 --> 00:16:27.899 Oh, yeah, it is. 223 00:16:27.899 --> 00:16:33.240 You know, it helps that there's 2 operators inside it, so it doesn't just look like someone on all 4s. 224 00:16:33.299 --> 00:16:34.080 It's cute. 225 00:16:34.139 --> 00:16:35.279 I think it's cute. 226 00:16:35.340 --> 00:16:36.600 And I love a pet chew. 227 00:16:36.659 --> 00:16:39.299 I think Stuart Fell was the back end, right? 228 00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:40.740 And he says... 229 00:16:40.740 --> 00:16:43.080 He was always losing the task, wasn't he? 230 00:16:43.139 --> 00:16:47.039 He says that there were no air holes in it. 231 00:16:47.100 --> 00:16:49.980 So the only way you could get oxygen was when the mouth opened. 232 00:16:50.700 --> 00:16:57.659 So not only is he on some guy's rear end, he's getting no air. as well. 233 00:16:57.720 --> 00:17:00.000 And when he does get the air, it has to go past the other guy. 234 00:17:00.059 --> 00:17:01.259 Oh, dear. 235 00:17:01.320 --> 00:17:03.960 But yeah, it was the characters in this. 236 00:17:04.019 --> 00:17:11.160 And especially Unstorf and Garron, who were the 2 I really, really enjoyed watching. 237 00:17:11.220 --> 00:17:16.380 So I've got Nigel Plaskett, who's Anstoffen, Ian Cuthbertson as Garrett. 238 00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:21.599 I think we were required by law to call this Holmesey and Double Act. Yes, right. 239 00:17:21.660 --> 00:17:22.500 Even though I'm not. 240 00:17:22.500 --> 00:17:23.880 There's 2 homes and double X in this. 241 00:17:23.940 --> 00:17:27.180 Because we've got the Grafin Decay and Sholac as well. 242 00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:30.420 Do you know incredibly homoerotic double act? 243 00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:32.339 Rod didn't even notice that. 244 00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:37.319 The graph in decay, I think, is an absolutely spectacular performance. 245 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:39.299 I think he is incredible. 246 00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:46.380 This is Paul Seed, who will go on to direct the 1st 2 series of House of Cards, the British House of Cards. 247 00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:49.799 And it's his dog that bites Tom in the face. 248 00:17:49.859 --> 00:17:54.720 So can we talk about that just very briefly and then circle back round to Paul Seed? 249 00:17:54.779 --> 00:18:00.000 Tom has these horrible wounds on his face that are really, really visible in a lot of scenes. 250 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:02.279 And they look terrible, don't they? 251 00:18:02.339 --> 00:18:04.680 And I think they're probably trying to cover them up with makeup. 252 00:18:04.740 --> 00:18:05.400 Yeah they are. 253 00:18:05.460 --> 00:18:09.599 And there are some publicity pictures where he's got a big black sticking plaster. 254 00:18:09.660 --> 00:18:22.799 And what happened was, they're at the pub, and Paul Seed has a dog, and someone tells Tom that don't do this particular thing, 'cause the dog reacts, and it'll bite you. 255 00:18:22.859 --> 00:18:26.279 And so, of course, Tom does that thing, that reacts and bites his face. 256 00:18:26.339 --> 00:18:35.160 Yeah, I think what it was is Paul Seed said, oh, he's got this trick, watch, and picked up a little sausage and put the sausage in his mouth, and the dog jumped up and bites the other half of the sausage. 257 00:18:35.220 --> 00:18:39.660 And now, of course, that's okay when you own the dog, you know where to put the sausage and what have you. 258 00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:41.160 But Tom go... 259 00:18:41.220 --> 00:18:42.059 Stop it. 260 00:18:42.660 --> 00:18:51.240 But Tom then does it, and I don't know if he positioned the sausage wrongly, but yeah, the dog jumped up and bit his lip as well as the sausage. 261 00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:54.720 I don't think it's as obvious in this story that the lips bit. 262 00:18:54.779 --> 00:19:01.799 It's actually Pirate Planet because he bumps the doctor bumps his face at the beginning of the pirate planet and then it sort of like, well, it was still healing then. 263 00:19:01.859 --> 00:19:02.400 That's the thing. 264 00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:08.460 I think I'd heard that the covering it up with makeup was upsetting Tom, that it was hurting and things. 265 00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:12.900 And so they wrote that into pirate planets so that they didn't have to cover it up with makeup. 266 00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:15.480 Yeah. which is, you know, it's understandable. 267 00:19:16.980 --> 00:19:22.259 You might as well, if it's an open wound, you might as well cover it with dirt if you're covering it in makeup. 268 00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:23.279 Not pleasant. 269 00:19:23.339 --> 00:19:26.160 Paul scene is phenomenal, right? 270 00:19:26.220 --> 00:19:31.319 This is one of the discoveries that I've made watching this story many years later. 271 00:19:31.380 --> 00:19:34.200 This is my equal 2nd favourite of the season. 272 00:19:34.259 --> 00:19:36.900 And I think it is extremely well crafted. 273 00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:41.579 I have to give it to anybody who can go, for a cliffhanger, go, Sherlock. 274 00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:44.880 No one makes a fool of the gruff binder key and lives. 275 00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:48.779 I just love that ending. 276 00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:54.420 There's not a moment of humour or self awareness in the performance at all. 277 00:19:54.539 --> 00:19:56.099 It's played completely straight. 278 00:19:56.160 --> 00:19:59.880 The graph indicate is clearly an absolute idiot. 279 00:19:59.940 --> 00:20:05.880 He's been deposed from the Lavivian throne because his people absolutely hated him. 280 00:20:05.940 --> 00:20:06.960 But he has... 281 00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:08.160 Even though he is by right. 282 00:20:08.220 --> 00:20:11.160 That's right. has no self-awareness. 283 00:20:11.220 --> 00:20:16.259 He's constantly he's constant obsession is that he's being made a fool of. 284 00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:20.039 And the narrative makes a fool of him the entire way. 285 00:20:20.339 --> 00:20:22.619 And he just plays it. 286 00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:25.019 There's not a hint of camp or anything. 287 00:20:25.079 --> 00:20:33.599 Even at the very end when he's, you know, we bring up the background noise of battles that he's imagining as he goes off to get blowed up. 288 00:20:33.660 --> 00:20:35.759 It's actually quite moving. 289 00:20:35.819 --> 00:20:45.420 You feel for him in those last few minutes, like from when Sherlock dies and his reaction to that, you, you, you kind of, you almost sympathise with him. 290 00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:53.279 You know, you don't agree with what he was doing, but you think, my God, you actually think that you are right and just in what you're doing. 291 00:20:53.339 --> 00:20:58.440 It's terrific, and I don't think we've ever seen anything quite like it in Doctor Who before. 292 00:20:58.500 --> 00:21:03.779 Yeah, I mean, especially not because, of course, by this stage, Graham Williams has seen Star Wars. 293 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:04.799 Yeah. 294 00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:13.259 As we discussed a couple of weeks ago, Star Wars came out in the gap between the Sunmakers and Underworld. 295 00:21:13.319 --> 00:21:17.279 Underworld was the 1st Doctor Who that people saw after Star Wars. 296 00:21:17.339 --> 00:21:19.319 And lots of people saw it too. 297 00:21:19.380 --> 00:21:22.079 I mean, that story's got the highest rated episode of that season. 298 00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:31.559 So yeah, Graham Williams, for this season, deliberately decided we need to focus on character because we can't match the special effects. 299 00:21:31.619 --> 00:21:35.460 And with last season, there were lots of spaceship special effects. 300 00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:44.220 You know, you had the Titan shuttle, you had the R1 city, uh, you had the Varden ship, uh, over Gallifrey, and they weren't terrible models. 301 00:21:44.279 --> 00:21:45.539 No, no, they were quite good models. 302 00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:55.980 But even now with Reebos operation, despite the fact that you have 2 spaceships landing, you have Garon spaceship, and you have the graph indicated spaceship, they've elected, we're not going to show those. 303 00:21:55.980 --> 00:22:02.579 Instead, we're going to build really great sets, have really great costumes and really good performances and a cracking script. 304 00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:05.519 And it's like, okay, you know, this is what Doctor Who does well. 305 00:22:05.579 --> 00:22:07.559 And that's what I really like about this. 306 00:22:07.619 --> 00:22:14.220 It's the fact that it's very homes in that he sets it in a few different locations, right? 307 00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:16.559 But you don't necessarily see the outside of things. 308 00:22:16.619 --> 00:22:20.579 And as a kid, I used to kind of visualise this whole season as a series of movies. 309 00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:32.160 So you would see this, the ships coming into the north that you would see this decaying city with the catacombs and all that sort of thing, which we don't get to see, obviously, in this for budgetary reasons. 310 00:22:32.220 --> 00:22:35.700 And I like the fact that it is outdoors, but it's set indoors and they can do that. 311 00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:40.559 It gives this season the 1st 5 stories because there's so much location work in the next four. 312 00:22:40.619 --> 00:22:43.799 It feels like it's outside and it's bigger and they're using the budget really well. 313 00:22:43.859 --> 00:22:48.119 Yeah, so I really like, you know, the use of the sets and that sort of thing. 314 00:22:48.180 --> 00:22:57.359 Although when Romana and the doctor are in the relic room and the graft indicays outside, like literally like 2 seconds away from them and they're having to hide and they're having like a 5 minute conversation. 315 00:22:57.420 --> 00:22:59.400 Like there's, you know, there's those... 316 00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:00.359 It's a bit stagey. 317 00:23:00.420 --> 00:23:01.680 Yes, it's staged that way. 318 00:23:01.740 --> 00:23:05.220 They hide behind those 2 little screens that could hide nobody in a 1000000 years. 319 00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:07.680 But, you know, that's minor little things. 320 00:23:07.740 --> 00:23:23.160 And like, you know, I always used to imagine that the concourse where they find Binro would have been much bigger, you know, had they done a big movie version of this and the whole relic room and getting into it would have been a much bigger sort of drama to get into, not as it seems to be. 321 00:23:23.940 --> 00:23:31.500 It's also weird because it's, I think, the only time that classic Doctor Who does a heist movie. 322 00:23:31.559 --> 00:23:40.859 It's a really unusual heist too, in our sense, because the very 1st scenes are putting a precious object into the relic room. 323 00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:42.119 Yeah, they're not stealing something. 324 00:23:42.180 --> 00:23:43.920 It's an anti-heist. an anti-heist. 325 00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:45.480 It's really clever in that way. 326 00:23:45.539 --> 00:23:52.859 So we should talk about Unstuff and Darren, and I absolutely loathed his performance as a child. 327 00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:54.480 I just hated it. 328 00:23:54.539 --> 00:23:55.619 It was so over the top. 329 00:23:55.680 --> 00:24:04.140 I just really just was turned off by the same way I really hated Jago, the same way I don't like the pirate captain. 330 00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:06.180 Like, I just hate these big overdrop performances. 331 00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:08.460 Now I think it's absolutely brilliant. 332 00:24:08.519 --> 00:24:11.220 They're really funny together, right? 333 00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:12.180 Oh, yeah, yeah. 334 00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:20.940 And Unstroft reminds me, the guy who plays him reminds me of a guy from Play School here in Australia on ABC TV. 335 00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:24.059 We used to have like Noni Hazelhurst and there was this other guy. 336 00:24:24.119 --> 00:24:27.960 I never remember his name, who was with her throughout a lot of the stuff as a kid. 337 00:24:28.019 --> 00:24:29.220 And I think he did it for about 20 years. 338 00:24:29.339 --> 00:24:31.500 Was he the one who ended up on neighbours? 339 00:24:31.619 --> 00:24:32.339 No. 340 00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:35.039 They all ended up on neighbours sooner or later. 341 00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:39.059 But he's just got that open, honest face, and I always used to get confused as a kid. 342 00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:41.880 I thought it was the guy from Play School, but of course it's not. 343 00:24:41.940 --> 00:24:45.000 And his performance, who plays and stuff? 344 00:24:45.059 --> 00:24:46.380 Nigel Plaskett. 345 00:24:46.440 --> 00:24:48.900 I think it's just a beautiful performance. 346 00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:50.700 Absolutely divine. 347 00:24:50.759 --> 00:24:55.079 And his scenes with Binroe, which as I said, as a kid, I found really boring. 348 00:24:55.140 --> 00:24:58.740 Now I just think they're the heart and soul of the 2nd part of the story. 349 00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:01.500 Yeah, I think so too. just amazing stuff. 350 00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:04.200 Yeah, it's amazing when you consider that at the end of this year. 351 00:25:04.619 --> 00:25:09.180 Bob Holmes disappears from the show for about five years. 352 00:25:09.240 --> 00:25:15.240 And yet, in this story, he writes a few really beautiful emotional scenes. 353 00:25:15.299 --> 00:25:20.880 You've got unstopping Ben Rowe talking, and especially the moment Unstoft tells Ben Rowe, you're actually right. 354 00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:24.180 And Unstock gains nothing from that. 355 00:25:24.299 --> 00:25:27.539 You know, there is honour amongst thieves. 356 00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:44.460 You've got unstopped reaction when Binro is killed, which is sort of one of the most human and real reactions we've had to death, especially Bob Holmes, who's quite, you know, known for just as Stephen Moffatt would put it, creating interesting characters and then melting them. 357 00:25:44.519 --> 00:25:49.440 You've got the aforementioned scene with the gruff Vindicay reacting to Sholak's death. 358 00:25:49.500 --> 00:26:00.839 You know, this is a story where death happens, like in all Doctor Who, but unlike a lot of Doctor Who, it doesn't go unremarked, you know, a couple a couple of guards are killed. 359 00:26:00.900 --> 00:26:02.940 Oh, can we talk about the guard captain? 360 00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:06.359 Prentice Hancock is back, ladies and gentlemen. 361 00:26:06.420 --> 00:26:11.460 I think giving him a really minor role with hardly any lines is the perfect thing to do. 362 00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:13.559 If you get a cast, apprentice Hancock. 363 00:26:13.619 --> 00:26:18.599 Put him in a fluffy hat, give him about 6 lines and then get on with your life, I think. 364 00:26:18.660 --> 00:26:23.640 And he's supposed to be like, the guard captain, it seems, that the whole city. 365 00:26:23.700 --> 00:26:33.539 Like, it's supposed to be quite a, like, that's what I get from the script is very subtle, but of course, it's a character with no character compared to the others, and he plays that to perfection. 366 00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:34.920 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 367 00:26:34.980 --> 00:26:39.240 I mean, poor Prentice, how the mighty have fallen, because last time he was in Doctor Who. 368 00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:42.839 He was almost playing the lead villain in Planet of Evil. 369 00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:43.799 Yeah. 370 00:26:43.799 --> 00:26:48.539 And that was when his style was rising and, you know, he was in space 1999. 371 00:26:48.779 --> 00:26:53.579 Now by this time, space 1999 is not only off the air, but he didn't get brought back for the 2nd season. 372 00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:58.200 Yeah, and he's back down to playing guard captain. 373 00:26:58.259 --> 00:27:00.119 I quite liked him in space 1999. 374 00:27:00.299 --> 00:27:02.039 But I must admit, I haven't watched for many years. 375 00:27:02.099 --> 00:27:03.839 Oh, you should. hilarious. 376 00:27:04.140 --> 00:27:12.480 I actually find this script a bit Star Trek, in the fact that these guys are visiting a world that has lesser technology than their own. 377 00:27:12.599 --> 00:27:15.000 And level 3 society? 378 00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:16.319 Yeah, level 3 society. 379 00:27:16.380 --> 00:27:21.779 They all fly into the north, they've come from the north and they have to have their passes and that sort of thing. 380 00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:24.240 It's just something that I kind of noted. 381 00:27:24.299 --> 00:27:27.420 Like, it tickles my fancy when, oh, yes, you're from the north. 382 00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:31.859 There's a reasonable attempt to build a world and you always get that from Bob Holmes. 383 00:27:31.920 --> 00:27:37.319 You get the feeling that there are things and places beyond what you see on screen. 384 00:27:37.380 --> 00:27:46.920 So you've got the greatest Serenic Empire and the Magellanic Mining Corporation, and you've got the city of Sher and the tundra and merchants from the north and all of that kind of thing. 385 00:27:46.980 --> 00:27:55.500 He always creates a world, and there's lots of place names, and things like that, which I think works terribly well, and he does it sort of every year. 386 00:27:55.619 --> 00:28:00.240 It just feels really desolate and isolated, and it looks great. 387 00:28:00.299 --> 00:28:01.500 It just looks spectacular. 388 00:28:01.559 --> 00:28:03.599 Now, we must talk about the seeker. 389 00:28:03.660 --> 00:28:06.059 The seeker, played by Anne Turand. 390 00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:11.160 I mean, it's great that there's another, there's a female character who in the 2nd half of the story, thanks, Bob. 391 00:28:11.220 --> 00:28:14.279 Yeah, he doesn't do a good job of that this year, does he? 392 00:28:14.339 --> 00:28:19.259 This is his only female guest character. character in 8 episodes this year. 393 00:28:19.380 --> 00:28:25.980 Thankfully, the rest of the stories have very strong parts for women and very strong actresses playing them. 394 00:28:26.039 --> 00:28:33.420 She's weird to see her in that she actually can predict the future and can find things. like she's always correct. 395 00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:36.240 Yes, yeah. when people don't believe her. 396 00:28:36.539 --> 00:28:44.700 And, you know, the new series, in the end of time, where that seeker woman, and I'm just there going, have they just ripped that off? 397 00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:45.660 You know what? 398 00:28:45.660 --> 00:28:46.559 The reboss operation? 399 00:28:46.619 --> 00:28:47.279 It's Russell. 400 00:28:47.339 --> 00:28:48.299 So I'm sure they have. 401 00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:52.859 I mean, this is Russell who, in his 1st year went, oh, we're not going to have loads of continuity. 402 00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:54.240 We're not going to have loads of continuity. 403 00:28:54.299 --> 00:28:57.240 My father would have fed me to the venom. 404 00:28:57.299 --> 00:28:57.779 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 405 00:28:57.779 --> 00:29:00.059 The face of Beau from the iceop galaxy. 406 00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:01.440 Yeah, that was deliberate. 407 00:29:01.500 --> 00:29:02.279 Thanks, Russell. 408 00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:04.019 Yeah, I think she's wonderful. 409 00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:06.420 And it is so interesting, Todd. 410 00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:07.259 You're right. 411 00:29:07.319 --> 00:29:14.940 That, despite the fact that, yes, she is this superstitious bone shaker, as she's called. 412 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:17.880 All of her predictions are absolutely right. 413 00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:22.619 And I quite like, she never really meets the doctor. 414 00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:28.799 So he doesn't have a chance like he did with Mark Tyler last season to kind of say, oh yes, you were born. 415 00:29:28.859 --> 00:29:30.900 You're a time fisher, and that's why you can have visions. 416 00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:34.680 I like that there's no explanation for it and it's not really remarked upon. 417 00:29:34.740 --> 00:29:44.940 Because on the one hand, you've got the discussion between Onstop and Binroe about science versus religion, really. you know, because Ben Rose Galileo, basically. 418 00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:52.079 But on the other hand, you have this religious slash magical ceremony that works and yields results. 419 00:29:52.140 --> 00:29:57.240 Do you know, I actually think there's more to that conversation than science versus religion? 420 00:29:57.299 --> 00:30:01.019 And this is something that Xander talks about as well. 421 00:30:01.079 --> 00:30:06.359 I think it's Bob Holmes attacking the premise of the season long arc. 422 00:30:06.420 --> 00:30:21.119 So we go from this big introduction, and there's a huge galactic problem, and there's 2 opposing forces, these two warring gods, you know, the white and black guardian, who, you know, are in conflict, and they're both searching for the key to time. 423 00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:28.140 And for a second, the doctor suspects that maybe Garin is an agent of the Black Guardian, although that's dropped pretty quickly. 424 00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:45.420 But the other group of people who believe that their world is a battleground over which, you know, warring gods are fighting, the people of Rebos, who believe that there are gods, you know, the ice gods and the sun gods are fighting over Rebos. 425 00:30:45.539 --> 00:30:53.220 And that view, the view, the warring god's view is associated with superstition and is roundly rejected by the story. 426 00:30:53.279 --> 00:31:06.660 So when you get Binro saying he doesn't believe in the ice gods and the sun gods, you get unstuff explaining that the reality is, you know, just a physical reality, there are no gods. 427 00:31:06.779 --> 00:31:10.500 But the whole premise of the arc is that there are gods. 428 00:31:10.619 --> 00:31:24.059 And even by telling a story, you know, there's this huge war in heaven, but we go to Rebos for a story about two con men trying to sell a planet to an idiot, kind of dictator. 429 00:31:24.180 --> 00:31:26.160 The scale is incredibly small. 430 00:31:26.220 --> 00:31:29.460 Nothing's under threat, nothing very much as at stake. 431 00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:34.079 I think it's a rejection of the idea of the epic basis of the story. 432 00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:36.059 Hmm. 433 00:31:36.119 --> 00:31:44.039 There's a couple of things that Garan talks about this instrument being Japanese, because it doesn't work, which is a bit racist in itself. 434 00:31:44.160 --> 00:31:56.220 It's also kind of weirdly out of date because, you know, those people who are our age think of the Japanese as being incredibly great at consumer electronics. 435 00:31:56.220 --> 00:31:56.579 Yeah, yeah. 436 00:31:56.640 --> 00:32:04.019 But people of homes as vintage thought that they're, you know, the made in Japan was a sign of sort of shoddy manufacturer. 437 00:32:04.079 --> 00:32:09.119 And then, of course, he sells the Sydney Harbour Bridge. and the Opera House. 438 00:32:09.299 --> 00:32:11.099 Well, no, he refused to sell the opera house. 439 00:32:11.160 --> 00:32:13.079 He couldn't let that part of our cultural heritage. 440 00:32:13.140 --> 00:32:14.579 It makes you an Arab. 441 00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:15.180 Yeah, yeah. 442 00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:17.220 Came after me with a machine gun. 443 00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:19.920 Well, that's that's a line. 444 00:32:19.980 --> 00:32:20.819 Oh, line. the line. 445 00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:22.079 More interesting in that. 446 00:32:22.140 --> 00:32:26.460 The reason he's selling the Sydney Harbour Bridge is because in the original script, he's Australian. 447 00:32:26.519 --> 00:32:30.900 So he's a massive Australian racist, which is a little close to home. 448 00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:34.140 It's fun accents with both unstopping, Karen. 449 00:32:34.200 --> 00:32:35.400 Like, its accents all the way. 450 00:32:35.460 --> 00:32:47.579 Karen's got his incredibly ludicrously fake posh accent, which he uses with a graph and with a doctor. and then he's got his sort of ridiculous cockney accent that he uses with unstov. 451 00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:49.619 And that's sort of terribly funny. 452 00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:52.319 But I would have loved to have heard him do an Australian accent. 453 00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:53.279 That would have been terrific. 454 00:32:53.339 --> 00:32:54.240 Yeah, yeah. 455 00:32:54.299 --> 00:32:55.920 I like the use of canine in this story. 456 00:32:55.980 --> 00:32:58.740 Especially when he destroys rocks. 457 00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:01.440 It's not that pathetic little like laser beans. 458 00:33:01.500 --> 00:33:05.160 You actually get a wide beam and it just disappears and that sort of thing. 459 00:33:05.339 --> 00:33:07.920 Yeah, I actually quite like his use in this story. 460 00:33:07.980 --> 00:33:09.539 Yeah, it's quite effective. 461 00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:12.599 And he gets a fair bit of character in it as well. 462 00:33:12.660 --> 00:33:17.039 Like, when Garren disappears and Romana's like, why didn't you tell me? 463 00:33:17.099 --> 00:33:18.599 Because you didn't. 464 00:33:18.660 --> 00:33:21.059 You're very irritating. start sulking. 465 00:33:21.119 --> 00:33:23.099 She actually says you're a very irritating computer. 466 00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:26.339 And I get the impression that Romana doesn't know what a dog is. 467 00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:27.660 Do you know what I mean? 468 00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:31.920 Yeah, and she just is responding to it as if it's as if he's a computer. 469 00:33:31.980 --> 00:33:38.519 Yeah, and of course, one last thing about Mary before we go on because Rod loves Mary Tam as well. 470 00:33:38.579 --> 00:33:47.400 You know, in a way, it took him about 2 or 3 stories to accept that lower ward was even on the screen next season because she's not Mary Tam. 471 00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:51.779 His description of Mary Tam in the story is Romana's eyebrows could raise the Titanic. 472 00:33:51.839 --> 00:34:06.839 I love the fact that she's is a bit clueless about the key to time, like the actual segments, like she assumed that it was the crown, not the scringe stone, or the Jethrick, and this happens for a few stories, but she doesn't quite work out what it actually is. 473 00:34:06.900 --> 00:34:09.300 Yeah, because she's thinking it'll be the obvious thing. 474 00:34:09.300 --> 00:34:13.139 When, you know, if you're going to disguise something, don't make it the obvious thing. 475 00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:15.960 Indiana Jones in the last crusade, you know, that's the cup of a carpenter. 476 00:34:16.019 --> 00:34:24.539 Now, the doctor blows up the graft in decay or Robert Holmes allows that to happen within the script. 477 00:34:24.599 --> 00:34:26.639 Do you think that's a problem? 478 00:34:26.699 --> 00:34:27.360 No. 479 00:34:27.420 --> 00:34:34.139 See, yeah, I don't think it's a problem because it juxtaposes really well with the sort of fun jolly adventure we've been having. 480 00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:41.940 Yet we're having this fun, jolly adventure, but we then have this really villainous psychopathic character in there. 481 00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:54.300 And it's something I wrote about in you and who contact has been made because in the 90s, when I was just getting into fandom, of course, that's when the new adventures were about. 482 00:34:54.360 --> 00:35:01.440 And I hadn't read many of them, but I really objected to the sort of coldness and the callousness of the doctor in some of them. 483 00:35:01.500 --> 00:35:08.340 John Anderson, I think, was running a panel at a convention and had this role play. 484 00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:13.980 So I was the doctor, Alex Gibbs and Bruce Greenwood, where my 2 companions who were tied to a nuclear bomb. 485 00:35:14.039 --> 00:35:17.219 And as the doctor I had the option to let them die or kill the villain. 486 00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:20.280 And that's You let them die? 487 00:35:20.340 --> 00:35:21.420 You know what? 488 00:35:21.480 --> 00:35:29.760 I can't, all I can remember about it was every time I tried to speak, Alex or Bruce would just go, help, help, help. 489 00:35:29.820 --> 00:35:38.219 But no, it raises the point that sometimes the doctor has to do really quite. questionable things to get out of this situation. 490 00:35:38.280 --> 00:35:43.139 And in this situation, Yeah, it's not like he's brought the bomb with him. 491 00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:46.019 It's not like he's gone, oh, I've got a grenade in my pocket. 492 00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:46.860 I love that at you. 493 00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:49.920 It's a matter of, the graph has put the bomb on the doctor. 494 00:35:49.980 --> 00:35:51.539 It's like, well I've got 2 options here. 495 00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:55.320 Blow myself up or switch, blow him up. 496 00:35:55.380 --> 00:36:01.980 And the thing is, the graph vindicate is going to go back out on the surface and start killing people and wage, wage further war. 497 00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:03.960 So it's like, what do I do? 498 00:36:04.019 --> 00:36:04.500 Yeah. 499 00:36:04.559 --> 00:36:08.219 After he's done it, the doctor doesn't sort of smile into the camera or anything. 500 00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:11.340 You see, it's not like he stabs him in the head either. 501 00:36:11.400 --> 00:36:12.360 Do you know what I mean? 502 00:36:12.420 --> 00:36:16.860 Like he does a comedy bit of sleight of hand, which is, you know, happens again. 503 00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:26.159 There's a callback to it, right, at the very end when they're swapping the Jethric, which is one of the most valuable substances in the universe. 504 00:36:26.219 --> 00:36:27.059 Yes. 505 00:36:27.059 --> 00:36:28.500 Take a drink. 506 00:36:28.559 --> 00:36:30.000 The many. 507 00:36:30.059 --> 00:36:31.739 This year's Argonite. 508 00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:34.920 It's not quite the doctor killing someone. 509 00:36:34.980 --> 00:36:41.219 It's a doctor doing a sort of comedy magic trick that just ends up causing the villain to fall into his own trap. 510 00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:42.539 That's what the doctor does. 511 00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:46.380 Yeah, you know, it's trapping the Daleks in mirrors in the 5 doctors. 512 00:36:46.440 --> 00:36:49.199 It's reflecting the Borad's power being back at him. 513 00:36:49.260 --> 00:36:54.480 You know, it's giving the villain a chance to just leave and the villain dozens. 514 00:36:54.539 --> 00:36:56.340 I was like, okay, this is what I got to do. 515 00:36:56.460 --> 00:37:01.860 I think there are far more objectionable things that the doctor does coming up and even in the new series. 516 00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:26.880 Well, it's four of the Croquenols well, so that's all the time we have for the Ryeboss operation. 517 00:37:27.000 --> 00:37:30.420 Or the reboss operation, whatever, Nathan. 518 00:37:30.539 --> 00:37:34.980 Please come back and join us next week for the Pirate Planet. 519 00:37:35.039 --> 00:37:41.820 Don't forget, you can find us online at Flightthrough Entirety.com, flight through Entirety on Facebook and iTunes or FTE podcast on Twitter. 520 00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:47.099 Currently available on Bondfinger at our 1st 5 commentaries covering up two. 521 00:37:47.159 --> 00:37:48.300 You only live twice. 522 00:37:48.360 --> 00:37:54.480 You can also find that Bondfinger cast on Twitter, Bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes. 523 00:37:54.539 --> 00:37:59.400 Until we see you next week, May, all your shrivenzals be able to breathe out their back end. 524 00:37:59.460 --> 00:38:00.539 Thank you very much and good night. 525 00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:01.260 Good night. 526 00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:01.980 See you soon. 527 00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:09.239 That was Flatter Entirety with Todd BLB, Nathan Bottomley and Brendan Jones. 528 00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:15.480 This episode, he positioned the sausage wrongly, was recorded on Sunday the 4th of October. 529 00:38:15.539 --> 00:38:19.019 The next episode will be released on December 13th. 530 00:38:19.980 --> 00:38:24.480 I'll bet that before you heard this podcast, you were even willing to be impressed. 531 00:38:28.619 --> 00:38:33.420 I quite like them in space 1999, but I must admit, I haven't watched it for many years. 532 00:38:34.079 --> 00:38:34.500 Oh, you should. 533 00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:35.219 It's hilarious. 534 00:38:35.820 --> 00:38:37.980 I'll edit this part out. 535 00:38:38.039 --> 00:38:48.659 But um, network on air until the end of today, uh, so the UK company releasing it, it's £10 for the 1st series on Blu-ray. 536 00:38:48.719 --> 00:38:50.460 Okay, I'm not going to come by. 537 00:38:50.519 --> 00:38:51.539 Okay.