WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 16:02:46 1 00:00:28.559 --> 00:00:33.240 Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety 2 00:00:33.240 --> 00:00:36.000 the only Doctor Who podcast who knows exactly what a counter 3 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:37.560 jamming frequency projector looks like. 4 00:00:37.619 --> 00:00:38.460 I'm Brendan. 5 00:00:38.520 --> 00:00:39.179 I'm Nathan. 6 00:00:39.240 --> 00:00:39.899 I'm Todd. 7 00:00:39.960 --> 00:00:44.880 And we are heading onto the planet Xanak for the pirate planet. 8 00:00:50.939 --> 00:00:53.820 Well, this is my fourth favourite story in the key to time 9 00:00:53.820 --> 00:00:54.119 season. 10 00:00:54.179 --> 00:00:55.200 And that's not a bad thing. 11 00:00:55.259 --> 00:00:58.740 I really enjoy the first four stories a lot. 12 00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:02.159 I just, the other three around this own, I like a little bit 13 00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:02.399 more. 14 00:01:02.460 --> 00:01:06.480 But, you know, we have to thank Anthony Reid. for bringing Douglas 15 00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:11.519 Adams to the table, to television, in the documentary that's on 16 00:01:11.519 --> 00:01:12.719 the DVD with this. 17 00:01:12.780 --> 00:01:14.459 He says that Douglas had great ideas. 18 00:01:14.519 --> 00:01:17.280 They just needed to be put into a structure, and here I think he 19 00:01:17.280 --> 00:01:18.060 generally does succeed. 20 00:01:18.120 --> 00:01:22.500 I think one of the greatest things about Douglas's work, and one 21 00:01:22.500 --> 00:01:25.319 of his greatest limitations, is the fact that the ideas that he 22 00:01:25.319 --> 00:01:29.219 presents are so big and overarching, that sometimes I think the 23 00:01:29.219 --> 00:01:33.000 technology at the time doesn't quite match what is required to 24 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:37.920 visually interpret things, and certainly a few aspects in this 25 00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:38.099 story. 26 00:01:38.159 --> 00:01:39.959 But I generally like this story quite a lot. 27 00:01:40.019 --> 00:01:43.200 It's a really just a terribly funny script, isn't it? 28 00:01:43.260 --> 00:01:44.280 Yeah, it really is. 29 00:01:44.340 --> 00:01:48.599 And, you know, there are a few things that he minds for comedy all 30 00:01:48.599 --> 00:01:49.019 the way through. 31 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:52.920 So, there's all of these sort of absurd names for the various 32 00:01:52.920 --> 00:01:56.700 minerals that they're mining, you know, William and Magronite 15 33 00:01:56.700 --> 00:01:59.519 and PJ X18 and all of that sort of thing. 34 00:01:59.579 --> 00:02:04.079 And all the planets had sort of silly, silly names, you know, Xanax 35 00:02:04.079 --> 00:02:05.340 and Calufracs. 36 00:02:05.400 --> 00:02:07.980 And then there's all the techno babble as well. 37 00:02:08.039 --> 00:02:11.699 You know, that's probably just an old macromat field integrator or 38 00:02:11.699 --> 00:02:12.000 something. 39 00:02:12.060 --> 00:02:16.139 And all of that, which will sort of carry on next year when he 40 00:02:16.139 --> 00:02:21.360 takes over a script and all of it just adds a kind of lightness of 41 00:02:21.360 --> 00:02:25.319 tone to the whole proceedings, which is a little bit deceptive 42 00:02:25.319 --> 00:02:26.159 really, given. 43 00:02:26.460 --> 00:02:29.400 Yeah, it's quite, it's quite dark in terms of content. 44 00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:32.340 When you get when you get to the actual concept of the story and 45 00:02:32.340 --> 00:02:32.759 what's happening. 46 00:02:32.819 --> 00:02:38.159 Again, a lot like the last story, death in this story is isn't 47 00:02:38.159 --> 00:02:42.240 just swept onto the rug when the doctor explains to Chemus and 48 00:02:42.240 --> 00:02:43.500 Romana what's going on. 49 00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:47.400 Chemist actually takes a moment and gets really upset about, you 50 00:02:47.400 --> 00:02:48.240 know, what's been happening. 51 00:02:48.300 --> 00:02:49.500 So this planet. 52 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:53.159 So we've got this high concept, which is a planet that a hollow 53 00:02:53.159 --> 00:02:56.699 planet that materialises around other planets and mines them. 54 00:02:56.759 --> 00:02:59.219 And it's a ridiculous high concept premise. 55 00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:04.439 But as you say, it becomes real when we're told that it has been 56 00:03:04.439 --> 00:03:08.280 materialising around populated planets and killing, like literally 57 00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:09.900 100s of 1000000s of people. 58 00:03:10.199 --> 00:03:12.599 What's an old guy's name? 59 00:03:12.659 --> 00:03:14.340 Oh, oh, Balaton. 60 00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:16.199 We do need to talk about the performances. 61 00:03:16.439 --> 00:03:21.360 Well, let's start, let's start with, we've got a nice Tartar scene 62 00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:23.699 I think, at the beginning of the story, which I quite like, and 63 00:03:23.699 --> 00:03:27.659 the doctor talks about 523 years operating the TARDIS, so we've 64 00:03:27.659 --> 00:03:29.759 got a bit of a time frame to things. 65 00:03:29.819 --> 00:03:31.080 I don't know whether that's quite true. 66 00:03:31.199 --> 00:03:36.060 No, it'll be contradicted in by Drax in the Armageddon fact, it's 67 00:03:36.060 --> 00:03:36.360 quite soon. 68 00:03:36.419 --> 00:03:38.939 And I love the fact that they put the 1st segment of the key to 69 00:03:38.939 --> 00:03:39.960 time in an old bridge. 70 00:03:40.020 --> 00:03:42.840 I mean, that's always a great thing to see. 71 00:03:42.900 --> 00:03:43.919 The limbo cupboard. 72 00:03:43.979 --> 00:03:45.419 So they have that room, don't they? 73 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:46.199 That black room. 74 00:03:46.259 --> 00:03:46.919 The black room. 75 00:03:46.919 --> 00:03:48.900 With the old style fridge. 76 00:03:49.020 --> 00:03:49.740 Yeah. 77 00:03:49.800 --> 00:03:51.659 And it is called the limbo room. 78 00:03:51.719 --> 00:03:53.520 That's what it said, that's what it's called in the script. 79 00:03:53.580 --> 00:03:54.120 Oh okay. 80 00:03:54.180 --> 00:03:57.599 I believe Graham Williams' concept was, you know, if the TARDIS is 81 00:03:57.599 --> 00:04:00.419 infinite and infinitely adjustable because we've seen so many 82 00:04:00.419 --> 00:04:04.500 different console rooms. then you don't actually need a corridor 83 00:04:04.500 --> 00:04:06.060 leading to a specific place. 84 00:04:06.120 --> 00:04:08.819 As soon as you walk out the door, the TARTAS will scan your brain 85 00:04:08.819 --> 00:04:11.879 and put what you want on the other side of the door. 86 00:04:11.939 --> 00:04:15.780 You know, they never explain it, because why would the doctor have 87 00:04:15.780 --> 00:04:17.040 to explain that to Ramana? 88 00:04:17.100 --> 00:04:18.180 She knows all about Tartases. 89 00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:19.079 But I love it. 90 00:04:19.139 --> 00:04:21.540 And we see a couple of times this season, they go through that 91 00:04:21.540 --> 00:04:22.980 door, and there's a different thing on the other side. 92 00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:24.360 Yes, yes. 93 00:04:24.360 --> 00:04:26.339 There's a wardrobe at one point, isn't there? 94 00:04:26.399 --> 00:04:27.360 Tahiti. 95 00:04:27.420 --> 00:04:28.920 We'll come back to that. 96 00:04:28.980 --> 00:04:29.459 I love that. 97 00:04:29.579 --> 00:04:33.060 And of course, Mary gets to wear her lovely pink jacket, white 98 00:04:33.060 --> 00:04:35.939 outfit, very sort of bucks fizz, whatever it happens to be, I 99 00:04:35.939 --> 00:04:36.660 think. 100 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:38.699 It is very period, isn't it? 101 00:04:38.759 --> 00:04:39.899 Yeah, I love it on her. 102 00:04:39.959 --> 00:04:42.779 I think Mel takes a bit of inspiration many years later for her 103 00:04:42.779 --> 00:04:45.660 little pink and white number, but, you know, I'm sure we'll 104 00:04:45.660 --> 00:04:48.420 discuss that sometime along the track. 105 00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:52.079 Again, Romana is trying to dematerialise the TARDIS, and at the 106 00:04:52.079 --> 00:04:57.899 same time, is, Xanak materialises around califracts, and it is, and 107 00:04:57.899 --> 00:05:01.500 so we get the doctor having to bump his lip and explain all of the 108 00:05:01.500 --> 00:05:05.100 um, Tom's, um, dog attack attack. 109 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:05.399 Yep. 110 00:05:05.459 --> 00:05:08.160 And then, of course, you get the rent a crowd. 111 00:05:08.220 --> 00:05:09.360 We get BBC Rent a crowd. 112 00:05:09.420 --> 00:05:11.639 There's 8 people in that crowd, I counted. 113 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:15.540 Oh, and they're so overjoyed. 114 00:05:15.660 --> 00:05:18.000 Sorry, I wasn't sure when to enthuse. 115 00:05:18.060 --> 00:05:22.680 Yeah, Zanak is actually populated by some pretty terrible actors 116 00:05:22.680 --> 00:05:23.040 actually. 117 00:05:23.220 --> 00:05:29.160 So there's Balaton, who's the grandfather, who is just appallingly 118 00:05:29.160 --> 00:05:30.600 stilted in his delivery. 119 00:05:30.660 --> 00:05:35.339 There's his daughter Mueller, which is just the worst name of 120 00:05:35.339 --> 00:05:36.120 anyone ever. 121 00:05:36.180 --> 00:05:38.519 Like, is she a mule or does she mule a lot? 122 00:05:38.579 --> 00:05:39.360 Do you know what I mean? 123 00:05:39.420 --> 00:05:43.199 She does get a very good comedy moment and it does involve him as 124 00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:44.699 well, but I think it's all down to her. 125 00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:45.959 Like, what was it? 126 00:05:46.019 --> 00:05:48.240 My father wasn't killed by the man he adds. 127 00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:50.879 No, he was shot by the captain's guards to save him from the 128 00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:51.720 mint. 129 00:05:52.199 --> 00:05:55.139 She's the one who delivers the immortal line. 130 00:05:55.199 --> 00:05:55.800 Why? 131 00:05:55.860 --> 00:05:56.459 Why? 132 00:05:56.519 --> 00:05:57.300 Why? 133 00:05:57.360 --> 00:05:57.959 Why? 134 00:05:58.019 --> 00:05:58.500 Why? 135 00:05:58.560 --> 00:06:00.600 But I think she makes up for it with... 136 00:06:00.660 --> 00:06:02.639 You mean they pinned him to the wall with good vibrations? 137 00:06:02.699 --> 00:06:05.160 No, she's terrible. 138 00:06:05.220 --> 00:06:06.779 Preylix is terrible. 139 00:06:06.839 --> 00:06:07.439 Yeah. 140 00:06:07.439 --> 00:06:07.800 Yeah. 141 00:06:07.920 --> 00:06:09.600 Keemus isn't bad. 142 00:06:09.660 --> 00:06:12.120 And of course, he was Mr. Louise Jameson at the time. 143 00:06:12.180 --> 00:06:12.899 David Warwick. 144 00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:13.500 Oh, okay. 145 00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:15.060 Yes, and he's been in the new series. 146 00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:18.959 Yes, he was the police commissioner reporting that the ghosts were 147 00:06:18.959 --> 00:06:19.439 harmless. 148 00:06:19.500 --> 00:06:22.319 Oh, no, wait, stay in your homes, is that by a side map? 149 00:06:22.379 --> 00:06:23.160 Yeah, excellent. 150 00:06:23.220 --> 00:06:26.819 Yes, that's one of the things I will say about this is those 151 00:06:26.819 --> 00:06:27.660 performances. 152 00:06:27.779 --> 00:06:29.819 Do sort of let the side down a bit. 153 00:06:29.879 --> 00:06:32.160 I mean, it's nice to have another woman in the car doing something 154 00:06:32.160 --> 00:06:36.180 you know, who's not an evil crone or whatever it happens to be. 155 00:06:36.300 --> 00:06:37.319 I think that's quite good. 156 00:06:37.379 --> 00:06:41.519 I do laugh at the grandfather and the fact that he's quite willing 157 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:44.100 to take all these riches and I don't want to know what's going on 158 00:06:44.100 --> 00:06:47.639 just putting his head in the sand, so to speak, as long as he gets 159 00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:48.180 what he wants. 160 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:50.459 I think it would have been quite nice at the other end of the 161 00:06:50.459 --> 00:06:56.160 story perhaps to see some sort of... some development. realisation 162 00:06:56.160 --> 00:06:58.680 of and remorse as to that sort of thing. 163 00:06:58.740 --> 00:07:01.740 But I kind of think it's a bit like maybe the British Empire and 164 00:07:01.740 --> 00:07:04.319 what they did to so many countries around the world. 165 00:07:04.379 --> 00:07:06.779 I mean, it's like capitalism, really. 166 00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:07.620 Do you know what I mean? 167 00:07:07.680 --> 00:07:12.180 Like all of us listening to this podcast on our, you know 168 00:07:12.180 --> 00:07:14.040 expensive devices and things. 169 00:07:14.100 --> 00:07:19.620 All of us as consumers are, you know, in some way complicit in, you 170 00:07:19.620 --> 00:07:22.680 know, the exploitation and suffering experience by people 171 00:07:22.680 --> 00:07:23.699 elsewhere in the world. 172 00:07:23.819 --> 00:07:27.360 And we would just prefer not to think about that too much. 173 00:07:27.420 --> 00:07:30.060 And that's what this planet is. 174 00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:33.300 You know, it's a planet of consumption, a planet that eats other 175 00:07:33.300 --> 00:07:38.699 planets, but no one on the planet can see a problem, and no one on 176 00:07:38.699 --> 00:07:41.100 the planet actually wants to think about it too much. 177 00:07:41.160 --> 00:07:44.699 And the whole economy of the planet makes no sense. 178 00:07:44.759 --> 00:07:46.319 The doctor realises it straight away. 179 00:07:46.379 --> 00:07:52.500 But, as Balaton says, we just don't ask questions about it, because 180 00:07:52.500 --> 00:07:54.959 you know, the answers to those questions are too terrible. 181 00:07:55.079 --> 00:07:59.459 So there is a kind of real intent, I think, behind the, you know 182 00:07:59.459 --> 00:08:02.519 silly, sci fi, high concept of the premise. 183 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:04.680 I quite like pralix. 184 00:08:04.740 --> 00:08:07.439 I actually think he does quite a good job, and certainly with the 185 00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:11.100 setup of the Mentiads, so you think that they're actually evil, and 186 00:08:11.100 --> 00:08:13.920 you get them knocking out the doctor at the end of the episode, so 187 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:16.800 you're thinking that, you know, that's a real problem, but of 188 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:19.379 course it's quite the opposite, as we come to discover. 189 00:08:19.439 --> 00:08:22.860 I love all the stuff with the doctor and Romana, when they 1st 190 00:08:22.860 --> 00:08:27.540 arrive in the square, and the doctor's having no luck with the 191 00:08:27.540 --> 00:08:32.820 local residents, and it's up to the wonderful Mary Tam, Romana 192 00:08:32.820 --> 00:08:33.659 to... 193 00:08:33.659 --> 00:08:34.860 It's actually canine. 194 00:08:34.919 --> 00:08:36.120 It's an idea. doesn't canine. 195 00:08:36.179 --> 00:08:37.860 It's prettier than you master. 196 00:08:37.860 --> 00:08:38.820 Is she? 197 00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:41.460 But the fact that Romana gets... 198 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:44.220 Oh, yes, and she's so jovial and would you like a jelly baby and 199 00:08:44.220 --> 00:08:47.039 all of that and the doctor's there trying to, you know, butt in 200 00:08:47.039 --> 00:08:48.299 but of course, getting nowhere. 201 00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:48.960 I just sit there. 202 00:08:49.019 --> 00:08:51.539 The whimsy of it all just tickles my fancy. 203 00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:52.919 I just love it. 204 00:08:52.980 --> 00:08:53.940 Where did you get those? 205 00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:55.259 Same place as you, your pocket. 206 00:08:55.320 --> 00:08:58.679 I love the doctor saying, has anyone seen a planet? 207 00:08:58.740 --> 00:09:02.700 You know, he describes it about so big or blade spheroids. you 208 00:09:02.700 --> 00:09:02.879 know? 209 00:09:02.940 --> 00:09:06.840 Like all of that is just terrifically funny and we'll get more of 210 00:09:06.840 --> 00:09:08.159 that sort of stuff next year. 211 00:09:08.220 --> 00:09:13.019 Then, of course, we go up the mountain to the bridge. 212 00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:13.500 The bridge. 213 00:09:13.559 --> 00:09:16.860 And we've got the pirate captain, Mr. Fibidly. 214 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:21.059 A number of guards who wear those, one of those... 215 00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:22.740 Helmets are terrible, aren't they? 216 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:26.820 I believe they're versions of, they're not the original, but they 217 00:09:26.820 --> 00:09:28.919 seem to be versions of an ice Lord helmet. 218 00:09:28.980 --> 00:09:32.340 Well, they look like the Blake 7 helmet, actually. 219 00:09:32.399 --> 00:09:33.960 They're very now, aren't they? 220 00:09:34.019 --> 00:09:35.100 They're very 1978. 221 00:09:35.220 --> 00:09:37.980 So you can have any, the same person playing the same guard 222 00:09:37.980 --> 00:09:40.440 because you actually can't see their eyes and that sort of thing 223 00:09:40.440 --> 00:09:43.740 over and over again just to save a bit of money if you need to. 224 00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:45.960 Yes, unfortunately, we don't have Terry Walsh anymore. 225 00:09:46.019 --> 00:09:46.980 He's not a guard. 226 00:09:47.039 --> 00:09:47.519 Oh, we will. 227 00:09:47.580 --> 00:09:48.299 Yes, we will. 228 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:50.639 Oh, yeah, yeah. but he's not in this. 229 00:09:50.700 --> 00:09:53.399 All right, so we're on the bridge and we've got the captain, Mr 230 00:09:53.399 --> 00:09:54.899 Fibberly and the nurse. 231 00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:59.580 You said last week in the last episode that you didn't enjoy the 232 00:09:59.580 --> 00:10:01.919 pirate captain's performance when you were a kid. 233 00:10:01.980 --> 00:10:03.000 What do you think about it now? 234 00:10:03.059 --> 00:10:06.059 When I started to watch this, I just think, oh, this is so over 235 00:10:06.059 --> 00:10:06.779 the top. 236 00:10:06.840 --> 00:10:07.620 This is so annoying. 237 00:10:07.980 --> 00:10:10.799 But as the story went along. 238 00:10:10.860 --> 00:10:15.840 And I always forget the big twist in the fact that his performance 239 00:10:15.840 --> 00:10:18.299 is that big because he's actually doing something else to stop 240 00:10:18.299 --> 00:10:19.320 Queen Xangxia. 241 00:10:19.320 --> 00:10:20.039 I always forget it. 242 00:10:20.100 --> 00:10:23.220 And so then, in retrospect, I go, well, actually that's really 243 00:10:23.220 --> 00:10:23.460 good. 244 00:10:23.460 --> 00:10:24.480 And I still feel that now. 245 00:10:24.539 --> 00:10:25.559 I think it's a good performance. 246 00:10:25.620 --> 00:10:27.659 But I, it's so big. 247 00:10:27.720 --> 00:10:31.679 And then he's got his demented Leo Sayer next to him, right? 248 00:10:31.740 --> 00:10:34.500 And as a kid, I thought, this is a demented Leo Sayer. 249 00:10:34.559 --> 00:10:37.500 And if you don't know who that is, young people go and look him up 250 00:10:37.500 --> 00:10:38.340 on the internet. 251 00:10:39.059 --> 00:10:43.379 And get off Todd's lawn. 1970s pop star. 252 00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:47.940 And I really, really loathe that character even more as a child. 253 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:49.799 Now I think it's a really great performance. 254 00:10:49.860 --> 00:10:53.879 And again, it's a comedy double act and certainly with his death 255 00:10:53.879 --> 00:10:58.860 at the end and it's, you know, very heartbreaking and sort of, you 256 00:10:58.860 --> 00:11:00.360 know, it's a lovely character moment. 257 00:11:00.419 --> 00:11:02.279 I think they're actually really wonderful in this. 258 00:11:02.340 --> 00:11:05.399 I actually would have liked to have seen a little bit more light 259 00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:08.220 and shade in Bruce Purchase's performance. 260 00:11:08.279 --> 00:11:11.039 We're going to see this happening more and more, and it's 261 00:11:11.039 --> 00:11:13.799 something that Douglas Adams talked about, which is the moment 262 00:11:13.799 --> 00:11:16.980 that you put humour in a script, actors take the opportunity to 263 00:11:16.980 --> 00:11:19.860 kind of do funny voices and ham it up. 264 00:11:19.980 --> 00:11:23.759 And here, very much the humour in the script, and the high concept 265 00:11:23.759 --> 00:11:27.720 and the robot parrot, and all of that sort of stuff, is all there 266 00:11:27.720 --> 00:11:32.820 to distract you from the fact that something really terrible is 267 00:11:32.820 --> 00:11:33.179 happening. 268 00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:39.179 And that shift, that tonal shift is really exemplified in the 269 00:11:39.179 --> 00:11:40.379 pirate captain's performance. 270 00:11:40.440 --> 00:11:45.960 So he's a blustering over the top, Doctor Who villain, who has, you 271 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:48.659 know, a great line in sort of hilarious imprecations. 272 00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:52.500 I like by the left frontal lobe of the Sky Demon, for instance. 273 00:11:52.559 --> 00:11:56.159 But when it's revealed that it is a long game, that it's just a 274 00:11:56.159 --> 00:12:01.980 ploy and he's trying to throw Queen Zangxia off the scent, it's a 275 00:12:01.980 --> 00:12:04.799 shame that we don't get to see what he's really like. 276 00:12:04.919 --> 00:12:09.059 He does dial it back a bit, but it never becomes real, and I think 277 00:12:09.059 --> 00:12:09.840 that's a mistake. 278 00:12:09.899 --> 00:12:11.820 I think a big problem of it is. 279 00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:15.960 Sort of when he turns on Xangxia, he just kind of says, I'll be 280 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:16.919 free of you, you hag. 281 00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:17.879 And then she kills him. 282 00:12:17.940 --> 00:12:20.519 And it's like, I would have liked the longest speech there, which 283 00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:21.539 would have emphasised. 284 00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:25.259 I've been waiting years for this and you thought I was just a fool 285 00:12:25.259 --> 00:12:25.919 blah, blah, blah. 286 00:12:25.980 --> 00:12:28.559 And that would have actually made his death a bit more palpable 287 00:12:28.559 --> 00:12:33.480 because halfway through that speech, you'd go, he's actually kind 288 00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:34.320 of a good guy. 289 00:12:34.379 --> 00:12:35.820 You know, he's about to be redeemed. 290 00:12:35.879 --> 00:12:36.539 He's about to be. 291 00:12:36.600 --> 00:12:37.080 Oh he's dead. 292 00:12:37.139 --> 00:12:39.120 Instead, we just get... 293 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:40.379 Oh, be free of you, you hag. 294 00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:40.860 Wait, what? 295 00:12:40.919 --> 00:12:41.580 Oh, he's... 296 00:12:41.700 --> 00:12:43.139 Oh, oh, he was on the okay. 297 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:45.480 I think that's a really good point that you both made. 298 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:48.779 Like, if you'd had the opportunity to rein it down and actually 299 00:12:48.779 --> 00:12:49.559 see the real person. 300 00:12:49.620 --> 00:12:52.799 It would have made it a real performance, whether it's it becomes 301 00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:55.440 this just over-the-top thing, which is kind of what I was saying. 302 00:12:55.440 --> 00:12:55.980 Yeah. 303 00:12:56.039 --> 00:12:58.740 Yeah, the script, the script wants that to be a definite 304 00:12:58.740 --> 00:12:59.220 performance. 305 00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:00.059 Do you know what I mean? 306 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:02.759 And it's brilliant in that it gives you the opportunity to have a 307 00:13:02.759 --> 00:13:07.379 fun overtop Doctor Who villain without completely throwing away 308 00:13:07.379 --> 00:13:08.700 the justification for it. 309 00:13:08.759 --> 00:13:11.519 We should talk about Xangxia as well. 310 00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:12.419 Which one? 311 00:13:12.419 --> 00:13:17.700 Well, the nurse appears on screen at the bridge in part two. 312 00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:21.480 And she just gradually gets more and more important, and she's 313 00:13:21.480 --> 00:13:25.019 really menacing, and you can't say why, exactly. 314 00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:28.259 Yeah, yeah, she's just got that stillness and quietness. 315 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:30.539 I loved her as a kid. 316 00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:33.539 It's the one thing of this story I really, really loved, and I 317 00:13:33.539 --> 00:13:37.679 still love the fact that, in the background, And then suddenly 318 00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:38.879 it's like, well, why is she there? 319 00:13:38.940 --> 00:13:43.559 And you know how she wears that little control box thing on her 320 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:44.100 hip? 321 00:13:44.159 --> 00:13:44.820 I wanted one of those. 322 00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:48.779 And I love the fact that she could control things and then, you 323 00:13:48.779 --> 00:13:49.740 know, the memory cheats. 324 00:13:49.799 --> 00:13:53.340 I thought that when she got shot, she actually appeared over the A 325 00:13:53.340 --> 00:13:56.759 frame bridge, which, of course, is back, you know, after 326 00:13:56.759 --> 00:14:01.259 Underworld and the Robots of Death and Planet of Evil. 327 00:14:01.320 --> 00:14:04.200 But I thought she actually appeared there, but of course she just 328 00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:06.000 flickers in and out in that one spot. 329 00:14:06.059 --> 00:14:08.460 I love Rosalind Lloyd's performance. 330 00:14:08.519 --> 00:14:11.159 I love the split up the side of the skirt when she's standing on 331 00:14:11.159 --> 00:14:13.500 the A frame leading up to the plank. 332 00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:15.360 And I just love her performance. 333 00:14:15.419 --> 00:14:16.799 I just think it's fantastic. 334 00:14:16.860 --> 00:14:18.600 She's a great villain, actually. 335 00:14:18.659 --> 00:14:21.360 And she does sort of come out of nowhere, and I think it is very 336 00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:21.720 clever. 337 00:14:21.779 --> 00:14:25.379 And again, it is a complex plot, and one of the things that 338 00:14:25.379 --> 00:14:26.519 Douglas Adams does. 339 00:14:26.580 --> 00:14:28.320 And apparently this had been paired back. 340 00:14:28.379 --> 00:14:29.519 It used to be more complex. 341 00:14:29.639 --> 00:14:34.320 But he's very good at very tight plotting, and he doesn't leave 342 00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:35.820 any loose ends. 343 00:14:35.940 --> 00:14:39.539 And anything that appears to be, like, a weird continuity thing 344 00:14:39.539 --> 00:14:42.120 actually ends up getting an explanation. 345 00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:47.820 And so here, there are three reasons for Xanax to be doing the 346 00:14:47.820 --> 00:14:48.659 piracy thing. 347 00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:53.220 Initially, we think it's just to create wealth and riches. 348 00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:58.919 Then we discover that the captain is making a thing out of the 349 00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:03.600 planets remains in order to disrupt the time dams that are keeping 350 00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:06.779 Queen's Anxia alive and thereby kill her. 351 00:15:06.840 --> 00:15:11.220 And then we discover that it's actually the power being consumed 352 00:15:11.220 --> 00:15:15.120 by the time dams, that Queen Zanksia is doing it all, to stay 353 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:15.480 alive. 354 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:19.679 And create herself a new body in the form of the Rosalind Lloyd. 355 00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:20.399 Xxia. 356 00:15:20.460 --> 00:15:21.059 Yeah. 357 00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:22.379 Can you explain it to me? 358 00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:25.740 Because, like, she's creating this new body, which the doctor 359 00:15:25.740 --> 00:15:28.799 picks up what appears to be some sort of camera to create his fake 360 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:29.460 self. right? 361 00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:33.779 And so I'd assume that she would need multiple cameras in the 362 00:15:33.779 --> 00:15:37.679 control room to sort of create this stable sort of version of 363 00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:38.100 herself. 364 00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:40.980 This is what I, this is, this is where item could sort of get it. 365 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:44.460 And so the doctor has to project his fake self to jump off the 366 00:15:44.460 --> 00:15:45.840 literal cliffhanger, right? 367 00:15:45.899 --> 00:15:49.379 But then if somebody was to stand in front of it, Surely that 368 00:15:49.379 --> 00:15:51.000 would disrupt the signal and it wouldn't be there. 369 00:15:51.059 --> 00:15:55.740 Well, yeah, I don't, I think it's, you know, as far advanced from 370 00:15:55.740 --> 00:15:59.700 what we would see as a projector, as what we see as a projector is 371 00:15:59.700 --> 00:16:00.480 to a kinoscope. 372 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:03.240 Yeah, I think magic. 373 00:16:03.299 --> 00:16:05.039 Yes, it's a magic box. 374 00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:06.120 It's a magic. 375 00:16:06.179 --> 00:16:07.799 It doesn't quite work in my head. 376 00:16:07.860 --> 00:16:10.620 Like the pirate captain's performance, right? 377 00:16:10.679 --> 00:16:12.419 And like a few other visual effects. 378 00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:16.139 Like, you know, they have a really good go at the flying car, which 379 00:16:16.139 --> 00:16:19.559 I would, again, in my, if you're listening to last week's, you 380 00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:21.659 know, I have got the movie series in my head. 381 00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:23.159 So they could do that a lot better. 382 00:16:23.220 --> 00:16:27.659 I love Romana's whole whimsy at the whole car and the whole flying 383 00:16:27.659 --> 00:16:28.620 and everything, you know. 384 00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:30.779 Didn't she have one herself or something? 385 00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:33.779 She had one, she got one for a 100, no, for her 70th birth. 386 00:16:33.899 --> 00:16:34.620 Yeah, something that. 387 00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:38.700 And we've got the when the whole bridge does explode. 388 00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:41.460 Like the explosion is so big that the whole city underneath should 389 00:16:41.460 --> 00:16:42.600 surely be wiped out. 390 00:16:42.659 --> 00:16:46.559 You know, we've got one of the worst special effects ever, which 391 00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:50.580 is with the spanner hitting the engines and you've got the faces 392 00:16:50.580 --> 00:16:55.200 of the doctor and the mentiads and it's just, that's just awful. 393 00:16:55.259 --> 00:16:57.179 It's just, it just doesn't work. 394 00:16:57.240 --> 00:17:00.600 And this is little things like that, those little things that, for 395 00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:03.600 me, just sort of paired this back just a little bit from the other 396 00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:04.680 3 stories around it. 397 00:17:04.740 --> 00:17:07.380 And then we've got a parent. 398 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:10.920 A parent that apparently, I never realised as a kid, it was 399 00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:13.380 actually emanating yellow urine. 400 00:17:13.380 --> 00:17:15.000 You know, I never realised. 401 00:17:15.059 --> 00:17:17.640 And I'm watching this and go, what the hell is this? 402 00:17:17.700 --> 00:17:19.319 It's brilliant. 403 00:17:19.380 --> 00:17:20.640 The parrot is fantastic. 404 00:17:20.700 --> 00:17:23.759 So it's called a polyphase Avatron, which is poly for sure. 405 00:17:23.819 --> 00:17:26.039 So again, that's a brilliant choice of names. 406 00:17:26.099 --> 00:17:31.140 And of course, canine ends up carrying it in his mouth somehow 407 00:17:31.140 --> 00:17:34.079 which he doesn't sort of normally do, but he ends up having a 408 00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:36.420 fight with it, which is what we all wanted as children. 409 00:17:36.420 --> 00:17:37.319 Yeah, exactly. 410 00:17:37.380 --> 00:17:39.599 You know, like, it's great. 411 00:17:39.660 --> 00:17:41.579 You know, he doesn't have an eye patch. 412 00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:43.079 He's got an electronic eye patch. 413 00:17:43.140 --> 00:17:45.180 He doesn't have a hook, he's got an electronic arm. 414 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:47.579 He doesn't have a parrot, he's got an electronic parrot. 415 00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:51.720 So I think all of that, all of that works terribly well. 416 00:17:51.779 --> 00:17:54.539 Yeah, I'm just saying, like, you know, I never realised like the 417 00:17:54.539 --> 00:17:55.140 colour of it. 418 00:17:55.259 --> 00:17:56.220 Yeah, it is urine, is it? 419 00:17:56.279 --> 00:17:58.259 But as a kid it was like, yes, I wanted to see the parrot versus 420 00:17:58.259 --> 00:17:59.099 canine. 421 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:00.240 Yeah, yeah, they all did. 422 00:18:00.299 --> 00:18:01.680 That was the thing that wanted to be. 423 00:18:01.740 --> 00:18:05.099 I must say in this story that both chemists and Romana are very 424 00:18:05.099 --> 00:18:06.059 good shots with the gun. 425 00:18:06.180 --> 00:18:07.740 Yeah, Romana kills someone. 426 00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:09.720 Oh, I prefer to think that she's just stunned. 427 00:18:09.779 --> 00:18:11.160 No, she killed him. 428 00:18:11.400 --> 00:18:13.140 But yeah, yeah. 429 00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:17.039 Ramada has a sort of Daphne Zeniga in spaceballs moment of he shot 430 00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:17.400 my hair. 431 00:18:18.119 --> 00:18:20.759 And doesn't canine fly the car as well? 432 00:18:20.819 --> 00:18:22.440 Yeah, canine flies the car. 433 00:18:22.500 --> 00:18:22.980 Yeah, yeah. 434 00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:26.460 I mean, the car, which is absolutely positively not a copy of the 435 00:18:26.460 --> 00:18:27.839 Landspeeder in Star Wars. 436 00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:28.980 How dare you say such thing? 437 00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:30.420 No, we didn't just buy a toy. 438 00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:32.880 Is it actually a speedboat? 439 00:18:32.940 --> 00:18:36.059 Like I actually think it might be a speedboat that brought into 440 00:18:36.059 --> 00:18:36.420 the studio. 441 00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:38.759 Quite possibly, yeah. 442 00:18:38.819 --> 00:18:40.680 But, you know, the sort of red colouring. 443 00:18:40.740 --> 00:18:42.900 It doesn't leave much to the imagination. 444 00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:44.460 So behind the scenes info. 445 00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:49.319 Douglas Adams came up with the aircar because he hated scenes in 446 00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:49.859 corridors. 447 00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:53.460 And you'll notice that there are very few scenes of people just 448 00:18:53.460 --> 00:18:57.299 walking through a featureless white corridor, Terry Nation. 449 00:18:57.359 --> 00:19:01.440 There's the doctor and the mentiads occasionally in a corridor, but 450 00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:02.339 that's pretty much it. 451 00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:05.819 We do have the induction corridor where people wander through, but 452 00:19:05.819 --> 00:19:06.779 I'll come back to that at the moment. 453 00:19:06.839 --> 00:19:09.420 That's one of my favourite moments of this story where the doctor 454 00:19:09.420 --> 00:19:12.059 goes, talks about Newton's revenge. 455 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:14.279 We shouldn't tamper with the laws of physics, should we, Romana? 456 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:16.380 and they standing there and they go, it goes, click click, and the 457 00:19:16.380 --> 00:19:19.859 guards go, whoop, straight into the wall. 458 00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:21.180 I just crack up every single time. 459 00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:27.480 It's that it's that crazy and silliness that I do love in Douglas 460 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:28.980 Adams slash Anthony Reed scripts. 461 00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:29.940 Yeah, well, that's the thing. 462 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:32.160 It's Douglas Adams joke about corridors. 463 00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:34.680 He hates corridors so much that he makes one that kills you. 464 00:19:34.740 --> 00:19:38.039 Like the rotating knives in Monty Python. 465 00:19:38.099 --> 00:19:41.640 That's full of hitchhikers in jokes as well. 466 00:19:41.700 --> 00:19:44.279 You know, the 1st time the doctor's in the corridor, he says he'll 467 00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:47.039 never be cruel to an electron in a particle accelerator again. 468 00:19:47.099 --> 00:19:47.940 Yes, yeah. 469 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:50.819 And that's, you know, I'll never be cruel to a gin and tonic again 470 00:19:50.819 --> 00:19:52.440 is what Arthur Dent says. 471 00:19:52.500 --> 00:19:56.039 And, you know, he talks to the guards and talks about the violence 472 00:19:56.039 --> 00:20:00.960 and the long hours and what a boring job it must be, and some of 473 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:02.160 the names of the planets and stuff. 474 00:20:02.220 --> 00:20:04.319 So it is full of hitchhikers references. 475 00:20:04.380 --> 00:20:08.279 And the bit where Tom like knocks on the guard's helmet was 476 00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:12.660 completely unscripted and Mary's reaction, that Romana's reaction 477 00:20:12.660 --> 00:20:13.859 is Mary's reaction. 478 00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:16.920 She almost burst out laughing just because she wasn't expecting 479 00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:19.619 Tom to do that to the poor actor inside the helmet. 480 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:23.819 The script itself. which is quite common for Dougal Sadence was 481 00:20:23.819 --> 00:20:25.140 far more complex to begin with. 482 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:28.799 Zangxia was actually a time lord in the midst of his last 483 00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:31.680 regeneration and that's why he was slowing time down. 484 00:20:31.740 --> 00:20:38.400 And his next planet for the pirate planet to go around wasn't 485 00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:38.700 Earth. 486 00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:39.660 It was Gallifray. 487 00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:41.220 Oh, okay. 488 00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:42.720 I like the idea that it's Earth. 489 00:20:42.779 --> 00:20:44.940 I actually like to imagine it's Earth in 1978. 490 00:20:45.059 --> 00:20:46.140 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 491 00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:47.279 It's contemporary. 492 00:20:47.339 --> 00:20:47.819 Yeah, yeah. 493 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:50.880 Yeah, but I mean, the reason Graham Williams sort of said no to 494 00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:51.180 that was. 495 00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:53.700 Look, you know, we've just done a story endangering galafray. 496 00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:56.940 It'll be far more meaningful if it's endangering Earth, which is 497 00:20:56.940 --> 00:20:59.880 sort of what we would now consider a very Russell T. Davis thing. 498 00:20:59.940 --> 00:21:01.859 You know, it always has to come back to earth. 499 00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:03.180 It always has to relate to Earth. 500 00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:09.839 Graham McDonald, the head of cereals, called for the pirate planet 501 00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:10.559 to be scrapped. 502 00:21:10.619 --> 00:21:13.319 Because it was too silly or too silly. 503 00:21:13.380 --> 00:21:16.920 He didn't like the humour in the scripts and and Graham Williams. 504 00:21:16.980 --> 00:21:20.400 When it was being planned, had actually gone on a daily holiday 505 00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:23.819 and broken his leg, so he wasn't up to much, but he did contact 506 00:21:23.819 --> 00:21:27.059 Graham McDonald and said, look, you brought me onto this series 507 00:21:27.059 --> 00:21:28.200 because it was too violent. 508 00:21:28.259 --> 00:21:30.839 I had to replace the violence and the horror was something. 509 00:21:30.900 --> 00:21:31.799 That's why we have comedy. 510 00:21:31.859 --> 00:21:35.160 The comedy is not undermining the drama. helping to sell the drama 511 00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:38.640 and you approved me having this year-long story arc. 512 00:21:38.700 --> 00:21:41.880 We don't have time to produce something else to go in the middle 513 00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:43.440 of a year-long story arc. 514 00:21:43.500 --> 00:21:47.940 If you scrap that, you're scrapping part of our year long story 515 00:21:47.940 --> 00:21:49.980 which you said you really supported and liked. 516 00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:51.660 The comedy in this is fine. 517 00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:52.859 He's a new writer. 518 00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:55.019 We're not just going to put what you've read on the screen. 519 00:21:55.079 --> 00:21:55.980 We're going to edit it. 520 00:21:56.039 --> 00:21:56.819 Let us do our jobs. 521 00:21:56.880 --> 00:21:58.140 And he relented. 522 00:21:58.200 --> 00:22:01.559 So, yeah, a lot of people kind of see Graham Williams as this is 523 00:22:01.559 --> 00:22:03.059 the time when Doctor Who went wrong. 524 00:22:03.180 --> 00:22:06.839 But for the most part, we've really been enjoying Graham Williams 525 00:22:06.839 --> 00:22:07.559 influence. 526 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:08.819 I certainly do. 527 00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:10.920 I mean, the problems we had last year with things like 528 00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:11.880 underworld. 529 00:22:11.940 --> 00:22:13.680 But this season is very strong. 530 00:22:13.740 --> 00:22:16.500 What it is is just fun. 531 00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:17.579 It's so fun. 532 00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:19.200 Yeah, yeah, it is so fun. 533 00:22:19.500 --> 00:22:23.640 Do either of you find, though, that now that we don't have a human 534 00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:24.599 companion? 535 00:22:24.660 --> 00:22:27.000 Are we losing the humanity of the show? 536 00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:28.980 Because that started to go out the window with Inchcliff. 537 00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:29.940 I think we got it back. 538 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:32.640 I don't mind it. 539 00:22:32.700 --> 00:22:33.420 Do you know what I mean? 540 00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:36.539 Like, the fact is that she's really fun to watch. 541 00:22:36.539 --> 00:22:41.339 And, and like, you weren't really, you know, enjoying Joe because 542 00:22:41.339 --> 00:22:45.299 she was from the same planet as you, because secretly they're 543 00:22:45.299 --> 00:22:47.400 actually all from the same planet as you. 544 00:22:47.460 --> 00:22:49.079 Even the Alzarians. 545 00:22:49.140 --> 00:22:52.559 You were watching it because she was sort of fun and plucky and 546 00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:52.980 lovely. 547 00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:55.680 And I think Mary is a real pleasure to watch. 548 00:22:55.740 --> 00:23:02.759 And, and, and, you get the impression that they think the audience 549 00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:08.039 is smart and sophisticated enough to not need someone to have 550 00:23:08.039 --> 00:23:09.539 everything explained to them. 551 00:23:09.539 --> 00:23:11.099 That's a good point. 552 00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:14.819 But I also think that in that one sense, too, that the audience is 553 00:23:14.819 --> 00:23:15.960 smart and sophisticated. 554 00:23:16.019 --> 00:23:22.200 I just feel that we're now no longer aiming the show at eight to 555 00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:23.279 12 year olds, right? 556 00:23:23.400 --> 00:23:26.579 I think we've shifted to it up, up. 557 00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:29.579 And I think that's going to come and bite the show in the bum in a 558 00:23:29.579 --> 00:23:33.240 couple of years time, when ratings do suddenly take a dive. 559 00:23:33.299 --> 00:23:34.799 Like we're not renewing that younger audience. 560 00:23:34.859 --> 00:23:38.579 We've got the next, we've got an audience that we, that we, that 561 00:23:38.579 --> 00:23:41.039 might have been around with John in the 10th season and in his 562 00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:43.440 last years are now getting older and they're going to move on and 563 00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:45.180 go out with their friends and that sort of thing. 564 00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:48.779 And we're not we're already seeing ratings beginning to erode. 565 00:23:48.839 --> 00:23:50.160 Um, this season. 566 00:23:50.220 --> 00:23:53.099 There's only 2 episodes in the entire season, over 10 million. 567 00:23:53.099 --> 00:23:53.700 Right. 568 00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:56.220 So there is a shrinkage happening. 569 00:23:56.279 --> 00:23:59.759 And we talk about the fact that canines is for the kids and 570 00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:02.160 there's childish things going on, but it's really not that 571 00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:02.880 childish. 572 00:24:02.940 --> 00:24:06.000 And I think it is aiming for a different audience. 573 00:24:06.059 --> 00:24:08.759 Let's compare it to season 12, right? 574 00:24:08.819 --> 00:24:11.579 Season 12 is, you know, the beginning of the Hinchcliffe here. 575 00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:12.599 Tom's 1st year. 576 00:24:12.660 --> 00:24:17.640 And at the time we talked about how kind of horrifying it was and 577 00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:20.099 suggested maybe it was a bit too scary for children. 578 00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:25.559 But the stories are overwhelmingly, aliens in monster suits. 579 00:24:25.619 --> 00:24:26.519 Do you know what I mean? 580 00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:30.059 Like in Daleks and Cybermen, and all of those traditional Doctor 581 00:24:30.059 --> 00:24:30.960 Who aliens? 582 00:24:31.019 --> 00:24:35.400 There are no traditional Doctor Who aliens this season at all. 583 00:24:35.460 --> 00:24:37.200 Do you know what I mean? 584 00:24:37.259 --> 00:24:39.119 The Tyran would beast doesn't count, Todd. 585 00:24:39.299 --> 00:24:41.579 No, I was thinking of Kroll actually. 586 00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:45.059 Yeah, yeah, but I mean, Proll isn't a man in a suit or a race of 587 00:24:45.059 --> 00:24:46.259 aliens or anything like that. 588 00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:48.059 The stories are about people. 589 00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:49.019 Yeah. 590 00:24:49.019 --> 00:24:49.559 Yeah. 591 00:24:49.619 --> 00:24:52.559 And so so I can kind of see that. 592 00:24:52.619 --> 00:24:55.559 But nevertheless, I think the show is really fun to watch and 593 00:24:55.559 --> 00:24:57.180 maybe, maybe you're right. 594 00:24:57.240 --> 00:25:01.019 Maybe it is pitched a little bit older than it has been in the 595 00:25:01.019 --> 00:25:01.319 past. 596 00:25:01.380 --> 00:25:03.900 Yeah, I'm not saying I don't enjoy it. 597 00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:07.140 Like, I've enjoyed watching this story, you know, and I think 598 00:25:07.140 --> 00:25:08.099 there's a lot of fun elements. 599 00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:11.400 I think that as we've discussed, there's some elements that, for 600 00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:14.940 me, just don't quite work at the same level as a few of the 601 00:25:14.940 --> 00:25:15.660 stories around it. 602 00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:19.019 But I think, you know, kudos to Anthony Reid for getting Douglas 603 00:25:19.019 --> 00:25:20.759 Adams in and making this story work. 604 00:25:20.819 --> 00:25:25.380 Vai Delmar is, of course, the old Queen Zangxia sitting in the 605 00:25:25.380 --> 00:25:29.640 chair, who has such great things as David Warwick standing right 606 00:25:29.640 --> 00:25:31.619 next to her and saying, Well, that old hag. 607 00:25:31.799 --> 00:25:33.359 Can she hear me? 608 00:25:33.420 --> 00:25:36.299 And, of course, got paid an extra fee. 609 00:25:36.779 --> 00:25:41.519 Because they asked her, will you remove your false teeth to look 610 00:25:41.519 --> 00:25:42.900 particularly emaciated? 611 00:25:43.019 --> 00:25:45.000 And she said, yes, but only if you pay me more money. 612 00:25:45.059 --> 00:25:48.900 I'm only appearing on television, in a chair, not doing anything 613 00:25:48.900 --> 00:25:52.380 with my teeth out, if you pay me more, and they did. 614 00:25:52.500 --> 00:25:54.480 They paid her an extra fee. 615 00:25:54.539 --> 00:25:57.960 I hope they paid Binroe more for having his forced teeth out the 616 00:25:57.960 --> 00:25:58.500 previous story. 617 00:25:58.859 --> 00:26:01.859 I think, though, that was his suggestion. 618 00:26:01.980 --> 00:26:06.539 A couple of years ago, I was an extra on rescue special ops. 619 00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:08.700 Yeah, that was fun. 620 00:26:08.819 --> 00:26:13.619 And a friend of mine, Adam, got me into that and we were sitting 621 00:26:13.619 --> 00:26:17.640 in the makeup chairs and the makeup girls were great because we 622 00:26:17.640 --> 00:26:20.460 were part of a Mardi Gras float that had overturned. 623 00:26:20.519 --> 00:26:22.200 So everyone had to have different injuries. 624 00:26:22.259 --> 00:26:24.119 So the makeup girls were saying, what injury would you like? 625 00:26:24.180 --> 00:26:26.880 And so they gave me this head wound. 626 00:26:26.940 --> 00:26:29.940 So like half my face was covered in blood. 627 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:33.779 And Adam, they said to him, well, what kind of injury would you 628 00:26:33.779 --> 00:26:33.960 like? 629 00:26:34.019 --> 00:26:35.700 And he said, well, how about you do something with this? 630 00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:37.380 And his 2 front teeth? 631 00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:37.920 on the top? 632 00:26:37.980 --> 00:26:40.380 He had lost a few years previously and he just pulled out the 633 00:26:40.380 --> 00:26:40.920 prosthetic. 634 00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:42.900 And the make-up girl said, oh, God, yes, I can do that. 635 00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:43.440 I can do that. 636 00:26:43.500 --> 00:26:44.940 But for now, put them back in, put them back in. 637 00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:50.099 So he just had this blood. coming down from his mouth. 638 00:26:50.160 --> 00:26:53.579 It was quite graphic, and we were, like, we were one, we were one 639 00:26:53.579 --> 00:26:54.480 minute of the episode. 640 00:26:54.539 --> 00:26:55.859 We were the pre-title sequence. 641 00:26:56.039 --> 00:27:01.200 And there was this drag queen suspended above a thing in Fox 642 00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:01.740 Studios. 643 00:27:01.799 --> 00:27:04.440 Nothing to do with the pirate planet, just to do with false teeth 644 00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:04.619 really. 645 00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:09.900 I never realised that the captain's boots are huge platforms. 646 00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:12.059 Did you did you say that when you were watching it? 647 00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:13.680 They're really quite cool. 648 00:27:13.740 --> 00:27:16.440 Yeah, they only show they only show them, I think, once when he's 649 00:27:16.440 --> 00:27:17.700 making the doctor pick something up. 650 00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:22.140 But yeah, at one point, after the doctor's gone off the plank and 651 00:27:22.140 --> 00:27:25.440 you got him standing up there next to Rosalind Lloyd and Mr. Fibbly 652 00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:28.259 who are both quite short anyway, really emphasises his height. 653 00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:29.099 Yeah. 654 00:27:29.160 --> 00:27:33.660 But I do like the fact that this story integrates that you've got 655 00:27:33.660 --> 00:27:35.880 location work, you know, you see them... 656 00:27:35.940 --> 00:27:38.700 In fact, there's an old mine and everything there's building. 657 00:27:38.759 --> 00:27:41.819 Yeah, to go down and seek califracts into the mine and then and 658 00:27:41.819 --> 00:27:45.839 then Muller, Muller, whatever her name is, walking along with K9 659 00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:46.799 and the mentiads. 660 00:27:46.859 --> 00:27:49.019 It's just nice to have some location work in there. 661 00:27:49.079 --> 00:27:52.140 In fact, can we talk very quickly about the end? 662 00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:57.900 I'm a huge fan of the end of this story, partly because they 663 00:27:57.900 --> 00:28:02.279 decide to blow the bridge up just with dynamite. 664 00:28:02.339 --> 00:28:05.940 You know, there's, like, no, like, there's a big wire that they're 665 00:28:05.940 --> 00:28:09.359 playing out and then a box with a plunger handle and everything 666 00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:12.900 and I think that that's a fantastic way to go if you're going to 667 00:28:12.900 --> 00:28:14.339 have your episode for explosion. 668 00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:17.640 Let's just have it an explosion rather than an implosion or 669 00:28:17.640 --> 00:28:18.839 anything, sort of particularly silly. 670 00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:22.680 Yeah, the computer is computer, far too much computer stuff and 671 00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:24.000 therefore it has to explode. 672 00:28:24.059 --> 00:28:24.420 Yeah. 673 00:28:24.539 --> 00:28:28.380 But the other thing I like is that they just take getting 674 00:28:28.380 --> 00:28:30.119 califrancs as red. 675 00:28:30.180 --> 00:28:34.259 So we don't actually get the scene, this story where you put the 676 00:28:34.259 --> 00:28:38.460 tracer on the thing and it turns into the key to time thing where 677 00:28:38.460 --> 00:28:40.680 you hold that over until, you know, next week. 678 00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:46.140 And it's just the doctor and Romana waving goodbye and they're 679 00:28:46.140 --> 00:28:49.079 heading off to get the 2nd segment, which they'll eventually get. 680 00:28:49.140 --> 00:28:52.799 And I think I think the season does a good job of not allowing the 681 00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:55.920 key to time thing to deform the stories. 682 00:28:55.980 --> 00:28:58.920 But also, too, I mean, could you imagine on their budget trying to 683 00:28:58.920 --> 00:29:01.619 make that happen with the whole planet? 684 00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:04.200 I'm still going, smart move. 685 00:29:04.680 --> 00:29:09.420 And something that's quite nice about not the very end, but when 686 00:29:09.420 --> 00:29:11.579 the doctor kind of says, well, I dropped the planets into the 687 00:29:11.579 --> 00:29:13.980 hyperspatial force shield and fling them off into the vortex ready 688 00:29:13.980 --> 00:29:14.700 for us to pick up later. 689 00:29:14.759 --> 00:29:18.299 And Romana says something winds off, yes, that's quite impressive 690 00:29:18.299 --> 00:29:21.839 which throws back to I was almost ready to be impressed. 691 00:29:21.960 --> 00:29:25.559 Do you know, for me, actually, that's one of the weaknesses of the 692 00:29:25.559 --> 00:29:31.500 story is that the resolution is the doctor and Romana standing in 693 00:29:31.500 --> 00:29:35.220 the TARDIS talking a whole bunch of techno babble while a terrible 694 00:29:35.220 --> 00:29:37.019 special effect takes place on the screen. 695 00:29:37.140 --> 00:29:41.099 And it doesn't seem to be anything that the characters do beyond 696 00:29:41.099 --> 00:29:43.140 kind of pushing buttons and stuff like that. 697 00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:47.400 And that does happen a little bit too often, this era. 698 00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:50.519 It certainly was a huge flaw in some of the stories last year. 699 00:29:50.579 --> 00:29:53.759 But it is something that we do get a bit of, and it's something 700 00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:56.700 that Bob Holmes is going to make terrible fun of later in the 701 00:29:56.700 --> 00:29:57.000 season. 702 00:29:57.180 --> 00:30:00.359 But just before we go, there's two things I want to mention about 703 00:30:00.359 --> 00:30:04.019 the sort of climax of the story, with the doctor and Romana being 704 00:30:04.019 --> 00:30:05.640 mirrorlond to death in the TARDIS. 705 00:30:05.700 --> 00:30:09.180 That's another moment which I think is particularly well acted 706 00:30:09.180 --> 00:30:11.160 because you've got the doctor doing the psychic thing. 707 00:30:11.220 --> 00:30:14.339 So Romana's piloting the TARDIS and shouting out at me, no, you 708 00:30:14.339 --> 00:30:14.819 can't do that. 709 00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:15.420 We'll blow up. 710 00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:19.019 And, you know, so, but accepts that it's the heroic thing to do. 711 00:30:19.619 --> 00:30:24.779 This is also the scene which has given rise to Spannagate. 712 00:30:24.839 --> 00:30:26.700 Have you heard of Spannagate? 713 00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:27.299 No. 714 00:30:27.299 --> 00:30:30.000 Kita Time has had 2 DVD releases. 715 00:30:30.059 --> 00:30:34.380 It was released 1st in America, I think, in 2001, when the Dr. DVD 716 00:30:34.380 --> 00:30:35.579 range was starting in America. 717 00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:38.339 Warner Home Video, who released it over there, wanted a full 718 00:30:38.339 --> 00:30:40.079 season box set to be able to release. 719 00:30:40.140 --> 00:30:42.539 So it was very basically cleaned up. 720 00:30:42.599 --> 00:30:44.579 It came with comedy, wasn't it? 721 00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:45.480 Vanilla. 722 00:30:45.539 --> 00:30:46.440 It did have commentaries, though. 723 00:30:46.500 --> 00:30:51.180 So commentaries on each story with Tom on 3 of them, Mary on 4, I 724 00:30:51.180 --> 00:30:52.500 think, et cetera, et cetera. 725 00:30:52.619 --> 00:30:54.359 This story didn't have either of them. 726 00:30:54.359 --> 00:30:57.119 It had Bruce Purchase and Pennant Roberts, the director, and it 727 00:30:57.119 --> 00:30:58.079 was also the only story. 728 00:30:58.079 --> 00:30:58.920 It was special features. 729 00:30:58.980 --> 00:31:01.380 It just had the raw film trims of the exterior footage. 730 00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:04.619 Now, when it came time to be released properly as part of the 731 00:31:04.619 --> 00:31:07.619 range with full-blown special features and what have you, they had 732 00:31:07.619 --> 00:31:08.880 all the film trimmings, of course. 733 00:31:08.940 --> 00:31:12.839 And when they had the film trimmings, they recreate as much as 734 00:31:12.839 --> 00:31:15.240 possible, any effects done on film. 735 00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:19.380 So for that scene with the doctor and prolix superimposed. 736 00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:22.859 Yeah, the scene you really don't like, and the floating spanner. 737 00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:24.240 They had to recreate that. 738 00:31:24.299 --> 00:31:28.559 Now, in the original version, the spanner after it hits, the 739 00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:31.079 explosion goes off and about half a 2nd later the spanner 740 00:31:31.079 --> 00:31:31.500 disappears. 741 00:31:31.559 --> 00:31:34.920 Oh, and they added a spanner that flies off. 742 00:31:34.980 --> 00:31:36.000 Yeah, pretty much. 743 00:31:36.059 --> 00:31:39.299 They took the original spanner, they had it hit, and when the 744 00:31:39.299 --> 00:31:42.059 explosion goes off, the spanner spins and flies off. 745 00:31:42.119 --> 00:31:43.980 It lasts the same amount of time. 746 00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:45.960 It's about half a 2nd but it doesn't just disappear. 747 00:31:46.140 --> 00:31:49.859 So Steve Robertson, the restoration team revealed that they'd done 748 00:31:49.859 --> 00:31:52.140 that as part of their, as part of their website. 749 00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:54.299 They had a website they updated with the notes. 750 00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:57.420 The internet went insane. 751 00:31:57.480 --> 00:32:00.240 And it became known as Spanagate. 752 00:32:00.299 --> 00:32:02.759 All these people like, no, you must present it as an alternate 753 00:32:02.759 --> 00:32:05.099 option like you do for all the other special effects, and Steve 754 00:32:05.099 --> 00:32:08.880 Roberts was coming in and saying, you want us to have an alternate 755 00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:11.579 option for a half 2nd clip. 756 00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:12.960 No, we're not doing that. 757 00:32:13.019 --> 00:32:14.160 Okay, then put it back the way. 758 00:32:14.220 --> 00:32:15.720 Well, no, it's gone off for duplication. 759 00:32:15.779 --> 00:32:17.160 Live with it people. 760 00:32:17.220 --> 00:32:18.180 What's wrong with you? 761 00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:25.440 But to this day, when, sort of, some of the new series DVDs, for 762 00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:28.680 instance, some of the, like, comic relief things, what have come 763 00:32:28.680 --> 00:32:31.259 out with the wrong music or the wrong sound effects. 764 00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:33.599 People always refer back to Spanagate. 765 00:32:34.140 --> 00:32:38.220 So, are you saying to me that the version I just watched actually 766 00:32:38.220 --> 00:32:40.140 has this spinning spinner and it's not supposed to. 767 00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:41.220 Yeah, that's right. 768 00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:42.539 Oh my goodness. 769 00:32:42.599 --> 00:32:43.319 I feel cheated. 770 00:32:43.380 --> 00:32:46.140 Yes, I'm going to post something to the internet. 771 00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:05.099 I've asked you, listeners, that's all the time we have for the 772 00:33:05.099 --> 00:33:08.279 Pirate Planet, but do join us next week for the stones of blood. 773 00:33:08.339 --> 00:33:11.339 You can find us online at flightsthroughentirety.com, flight 774 00:33:11.339 --> 00:33:15.180 through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on 775 00:33:15.180 --> 00:33:15.539 Twitter. 776 00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:17.460 Don't forget, bondfinger.com. 777 00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:20.519 You can download all of our James Bond commentaries, and you can 778 00:33:20.519 --> 00:33:24.059 find us as Bond Fingercast on Twitter and Bond Finger on Facebook 779 00:33:24.059 --> 00:33:25.500 and iTunes. 780 00:33:25.559 --> 00:33:29.279 Until next week, may your polarphase Avatron not make a yellow 781 00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:30.420 laser mess on the floor. 782 00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:32.460 I'm Brendan, thank you very much and good night. 783 00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:32.940 Good night. 784 00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:33.779 See you soon. 785 00:33:36.839 --> 00:33:40.740 That was Flight Through Entirety with Todd Beelby, Nathan Boffley 786 00:33:40.740 --> 00:33:41.519 and Brendan Jones. 787 00:33:42.539 --> 00:33:47.099 This episode, Bucks Fizz, was recorded on the 4th of October. 788 00:33:47.220 --> 00:33:50.099 The next episode will be released on December 20th. 789 00:33:51.180 --> 00:33:55.559 You may find our podcast crude, but we hope that was immensely 790 00:33:55.559 --> 00:33:55.980 satisfying. 791 00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:02.579 Where's the toilet still going? 792 00:34:03.299 --> 00:34:05.519 Do you want me to go and deal with it? 793 00:34:05.579 --> 00:34:07.740 Oh, just sort of, um, press the button halfway down. 794 00:34:07.799 --> 00:34:08.039 Yeah. 795 00:34:09.360 --> 00:34:11.460 Not actually, it's not coming through. 796 00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:12.780 The mic's, which is good, but yeah. 797 00:34:12.780 --> 00:34:17.820 It's all happening, dear listeners. 798 00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:21.239 See, now I can hear it.