WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 16:02:57 1 00:00:28.620 --> 00:00:32.880 Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety 2 00:00:32.880 --> 00:00:35.700 the only Doctor Who podcast who's been arrested in New York for 3 00:00:35.700 --> 00:00:37.020 carrying a sausage sandwich. 4 00:00:37.079 --> 00:00:37.679 I'm Brendan. 5 00:00:37.740 --> 00:00:38.640 I'm Nathan. 6 00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:39.719 I'm Todd. 7 00:00:39.780 --> 00:00:43.740 And we are heading off to the roll right stones, which are quite 8 00:00:43.740 --> 00:00:46.320 deadly because they are the stones of blood. 9 00:00:50.759 --> 00:00:53.159 So, it's the 100 story. 10 00:00:53.219 --> 00:00:54.600 So, congratulations. 11 00:00:54.659 --> 00:00:58.560 We've actually talked our way through 99 stories, and this will be 12 00:00:58.560 --> 00:00:59.280 our 100th one. 13 00:00:59.340 --> 00:01:00.600 So happy birthday to ask. 14 00:01:00.659 --> 00:01:03.600 Yes, and just like Tom Baker in this, we're not getting a cake on 15 00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:03.960 top. 16 00:01:04.019 --> 00:01:06.780 No, they were going to have a cake, weren't they? 17 00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:07.620 And it was vetoed. 18 00:01:07.739 --> 00:01:11.700 Yeah, as being too self-congratulatory, which is probably fair 19 00:01:11.700 --> 00:01:12.000 enough. 20 00:01:12.060 --> 00:01:12.900 Yeah, yeah. 21 00:01:12.959 --> 00:01:16.439 The other visual gag was going to be, they were going to give the 22 00:01:16.439 --> 00:01:19.560 doctor a present, which was an identical scarf to the one he 23 00:01:19.560 --> 00:01:21.420 already had, and he'd go, oh, it's wonderful. 24 00:01:21.480 --> 00:01:24.420 It's just what I always wanted and it was going to be the stump 25 00:01:24.420 --> 00:01:24.959 scarf. 26 00:01:25.140 --> 00:01:28.019 This is a bit of a strange story, isn't it? 27 00:01:28.079 --> 00:01:30.900 It's our 1st story by David Fisher. wonderful. 28 00:01:30.959 --> 00:01:34.019 Yeah, and he'll go on to contribute to the program over the next 29 00:01:34.019 --> 00:01:34.739 couple of years. 30 00:01:34.799 --> 00:01:36.900 He'll do Androids of Tara. 31 00:01:36.959 --> 00:01:38.400 Well, in fact, next story. 32 00:01:38.459 --> 00:01:41.159 He writes 8 episodes in a row. 33 00:01:41.219 --> 00:01:44.280 He'll do creature from the pit next year in the leisure high of 34 00:01:44.280 --> 00:01:44.819 the year after that. 35 00:01:44.879 --> 00:01:48.120 And he is the man that wrote the Gamble with Time, which became 36 00:01:48.120 --> 00:01:48.900 the City of Death. 37 00:01:49.019 --> 00:01:49.980 Yeah that's right. 38 00:01:50.040 --> 00:01:52.799 And of course, did somebody mention the Fumarsi? 39 00:01:52.859 --> 00:01:54.359 Terrific. 40 00:01:54.420 --> 00:01:57.719 It's really hard not to see this script as a kind of commentary on 41 00:01:57.719 --> 00:02:00.359 or reaction against the Hinchcliffe era. 42 00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:02.280 Much like last season. 43 00:02:02.340 --> 00:02:04.920 I think this is more proof that the Graham Williams era does 44 00:02:04.920 --> 00:02:06.780 horror better than Philip Hinchcliffe. 45 00:02:06.840 --> 00:02:12.479 What we have here is like a criminal from the past who is 46 00:02:12.479 --> 00:02:13.919 masquerading as a god. 47 00:02:16.259 --> 00:02:18.719 I've got my hands in my head. 48 00:02:18.780 --> 00:02:20.699 I never see these things till Nathan starts... 49 00:02:20.699 --> 00:02:21.539 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 50 00:02:21.539 --> 00:02:22.620 Start talking, listeners. 51 00:02:22.680 --> 00:02:23.939 You can't unsee it, can you? 52 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:25.740 But yeah, criminal from the past. 53 00:02:25.800 --> 00:02:28.560 A criminal from the past, and then we get a sort of strange Gothic 54 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:33.060 building, like Fetch Priory last season, we get the big whore 55 00:02:33.060 --> 00:02:34.919 which is a beautiful location, by the way. 56 00:02:34.979 --> 00:02:37.500 I just think it looks, it was absolutely spectacular. 57 00:02:37.560 --> 00:02:41.039 And we've got a priest and there's a coven of worshippers and all 58 00:02:41.039 --> 00:02:41.879 of that sort of thing. 59 00:02:41.939 --> 00:02:47.219 And it seems like just it's not going to be a very good retread of 60 00:02:47.219 --> 00:02:49.680 a Graham Williams era thing. 61 00:02:49.740 --> 00:02:53.280 Certainly, DeFreeze, the head of the coven is pretty terrible. 62 00:02:53.340 --> 00:02:55.439 So, what? 63 00:02:55.500 --> 00:02:57.120 Yeah, I think he's shockingly bad. 64 00:02:57.180 --> 00:02:58.199 I think he's fantastic. 65 00:02:58.259 --> 00:02:59.879 Oh, he's wonderful. 66 00:02:59.939 --> 00:03:01.860 This is my favourite story of the key to time. 67 00:03:01.919 --> 00:03:02.460 Is it? 68 00:03:02.520 --> 00:03:04.139 I can certainly understand. 69 00:03:04.199 --> 00:03:04.740 I can see that. 70 00:03:04.800 --> 00:03:09.539 But what they do is they do the sort of Hinchcliffe thing and then 71 00:03:09.539 --> 00:03:13.199 just throw it away unexpectedly halfway through and decide to do 72 00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:14.520 something more fun instead. 73 00:03:14.580 --> 00:03:18.719 And I think it's really terrific and it works really well as a 74 00:03:18.719 --> 00:03:20.699 sort of commentary on the Hinchcliffe era. 75 00:03:20.759 --> 00:03:21.900 Yeah, sure. 76 00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:24.479 Fine. that's how you want to see it in your head. 77 00:03:24.539 --> 00:03:27.000 I just sit back, relax, and I enjoy. 78 00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:30.900 And well, there's so much to enjoy, isn't there? 79 00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:33.479 I mean, I'm kind of with you, Todd, in that I quite like 80 00:03:33.479 --> 00:03:34.199 DeFreeze. 81 00:03:34.259 --> 00:03:37.379 And I think what's so great about DeFreeze is he's set up to be 82 00:03:37.379 --> 00:03:39.840 the villain, but of course he isn't the villain. 83 00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:43.860 The villain is Cesare, who we will come back to, because 1st of 84 00:03:43.860 --> 00:03:44.939 all, we need to comment on. 85 00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:48.300 Professor Amelia Rumford and Vivian Faye. 86 00:03:48.360 --> 00:03:52.620 See, this is a story with a tiny, tiny guest cast, isn't it? 87 00:03:52.680 --> 00:03:54.900 In fact, it's basically just those 2 women. 88 00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:58.319 You get DeFreeze and Martha who are sort of horribly healed in 89 00:03:58.319 --> 00:03:58.860 episode two. 90 00:03:58.919 --> 00:04:02.639 You get the Magara who don't come along until, what, episode 91 00:04:02.639 --> 00:04:03.180 three? 92 00:04:03.240 --> 00:04:07.139 You get the campers who are just in one scene. 93 00:04:07.199 --> 00:04:10.919 So it's basically all rests on the shoulders of those two. 94 00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:14.159 And normally I don't like it when there's a small regular cast. 95 00:04:14.219 --> 00:04:18.120 Like I just tend to think that's, you know, tie semi complained 96 00:04:18.120 --> 00:04:20.040 about pyramids of Mars, for instance. 97 00:04:20.100 --> 00:04:25.379 But when the 2 characters are so wonderfully fun, it's really 98 00:04:25.379 --> 00:04:26.519 really hard to object. 99 00:04:26.579 --> 00:04:32.879 So you've got Vivian Faye, who is Susan Engel, and she's just arch 100 00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:36.540 and wonderful and funny and hilarious. 101 00:04:36.600 --> 00:04:40.740 She has an instant rapport with Romana, I think, with a sort of 102 00:04:40.740 --> 00:04:44.040 bond over her low opinion of what men are like. 103 00:04:44.040 --> 00:04:46.139 But she's so smooth. 104 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:48.959 Straight away, you know there's something not right, and I like 105 00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:49.139 that. 106 00:04:49.199 --> 00:04:52.860 Like, as a kid, I just thought, not just a little bit too sickly 107 00:04:52.860 --> 00:04:53.879 sweet and nice. 108 00:04:53.939 --> 00:04:56.579 It's just something not quite right about you. 109 00:04:56.639 --> 00:04:58.319 Do you know what she reminds me of? 110 00:04:58.379 --> 00:05:01.860 She reminds me of that character in K9 and company. 111 00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:02.339 Remember? 112 00:05:02.399 --> 00:05:03.240 Juno Baker. 113 00:05:03.300 --> 00:05:07.560 Juno Baker, who's kind of hits on hits on Sarah, and looks like 114 00:05:07.560 --> 00:05:10.740 she's about to invite her to one of their swingers evenings. 115 00:05:11.100 --> 00:05:11.699 You know what I mean? 116 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:13.560 So she's a little bit like that. 117 00:05:13.560 --> 00:05:15.180 And certainly... 118 00:05:15.180 --> 00:05:19.319 Yes, that the sort of leering ways she refers to sausage 119 00:05:19.319 --> 00:05:19.980 sandwiches. 120 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:20.819 You know what I mean? 121 00:05:20.879 --> 00:05:26.519 Or there's that thing where Amelia Rumford is, you know, offers to 122 00:05:26.519 --> 00:05:30.540 allow Romana to ride on the back of her bike and... 123 00:05:30.540 --> 00:05:31.680 It'll be a new experience for you. 124 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:33.660 There's no need to be afraid. 125 00:05:33.720 --> 00:05:35.519 Yes, that's exactly right. 126 00:05:35.579 --> 00:05:38.220 Oh, I just love her performance. 127 00:05:38.220 --> 00:05:41.279 And I can't believe like, I can't envision anybody else playing 128 00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:41.879 that role. 129 00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:43.439 But Anna Blackman was offered that role. 130 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:46.620 And she did not take it because she wanted Professor Rumford's 131 00:05:46.620 --> 00:05:46.800 wrong. 132 00:05:46.860 --> 00:05:47.579 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 133 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:48.480 She wrote back. 134 00:05:48.540 --> 00:05:49.439 I read the script. 135 00:05:49.500 --> 00:05:51.720 But I think Bea Lehman will be having all the fun. 136 00:05:51.779 --> 00:05:56.399 Well, that was a big mistake because she'll have fun 7 or 8 years 137 00:05:56.399 --> 00:05:56.699 later. 138 00:05:56.759 --> 00:05:58.620 Which is a really terrible story. 139 00:05:58.680 --> 00:05:59.699 Yeah. 140 00:05:59.699 --> 00:06:01.500 I love the voice. 141 00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:03.839 Interestingly enough, just Avengers connection. 142 00:06:03.899 --> 00:06:06.959 Susan Engel auditioned to replace Diana Rigg. 143 00:06:07.019 --> 00:06:08.100 Oh wow. 144 00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:12.180 And the mute footage of her auditioning with I believe it was 145 00:06:12.180 --> 00:06:14.279 Moray Lang standing in the steed. 146 00:06:14.339 --> 00:06:17.160 It was either Moray Lang or John Woodvine, both stood in for steed 147 00:06:17.160 --> 00:06:20.220 during those auditions, but she does audition for it. 148 00:06:20.279 --> 00:06:23.040 So you only see her physical performance, but she's still got that 149 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:25.439 sort of look that Vivian Faye does. 150 00:06:25.500 --> 00:06:28.800 If any listeners who want to try and find that. 151 00:06:28.860 --> 00:06:33.060 It's on the UK edition of the Avengers series 6. 152 00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:35.459 I just love her sausage sandwiches. 153 00:06:35.579 --> 00:06:36.779 Like I love sausage sandwiches. 154 00:06:36.779 --> 00:06:39.480 Like as a kid, with tomato sauce, just fantastic. 155 00:06:39.540 --> 00:06:40.259 Bit of onion. 156 00:06:40.319 --> 00:06:42.180 And no, I won't go that far. 157 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:45.779 But I just remember we used to play Doctor Who charades. 158 00:06:45.779 --> 00:06:49.560 And one of my clues in one of our, I don't know, silly objects was 159 00:06:49.560 --> 00:06:52.740 Vivian Faye sausage sandwiches, just tickled my fancy that much. 160 00:06:52.800 --> 00:06:53.879 I mean that's ridiculous. 161 00:06:53.939 --> 00:06:55.019 But, hey, what, hey. 162 00:06:55.079 --> 00:06:57.480 It's like a good name for a trivia. 163 00:06:57.540 --> 00:06:59.639 It's a good name for pub trivia team, isn't it? 164 00:06:59.699 --> 00:07:01.379 Yeah, yeah, sausage sandwiches. 165 00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:02.399 Fantastic. 166 00:07:02.459 --> 00:07:04.860 And of course, then we've got Amelia Rumford. 167 00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:06.660 Again, she is just terrific. 168 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:09.959 This is her last performance and she's terribly old. 169 00:07:10.079 --> 00:07:11.939 Gosh, I didn't realise, yeah. 170 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:13.439 I think this is the last thing that she's in. 171 00:07:13.560 --> 00:07:16.560 She struggles a little bit with the dialogue at the beginning, I 172 00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:19.920 think, and that just comes across as her being an old lady 173 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:20.220 though. 174 00:07:20.279 --> 00:07:21.000 I think that's right. 175 00:07:21.060 --> 00:07:24.240 I bet she, because she's an academic and she gets to sort of 176 00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:29.040 rehearse these academic rivalries and past comments on various 177 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:33.180 professors like that fool Lidwell Morgan and talking about 178 00:07:33.180 --> 00:07:36.420 treatises and, you know, the surveys and things of the 9 179 00:07:36.420 --> 00:07:37.319 travellers and stuff. 180 00:07:37.379 --> 00:07:40.139 Survey of Dr. Borlays. 181 00:07:40.259 --> 00:07:44.339 And you can see her kind of reaching into a memory for the 182 00:07:44.339 --> 00:07:45.060 dialogue. 183 00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:49.019 But she's really, really funny and appealing and she's really 184 00:07:49.019 --> 00:07:49.980 lively. 185 00:07:50.040 --> 00:07:51.839 And, you know, there's a great moment. 186 00:07:51.899 --> 00:07:56.879 I think it's probably an episode 2 or 3 where she wants to go and 187 00:07:56.879 --> 00:08:00.660 capture one of the Ogre for the sake of science, you know. 188 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:02.639 With a trump should. 189 00:08:03.420 --> 00:08:07.920 I've never heard an Evelyn Smythe, big finish audio. 190 00:08:07.980 --> 00:08:10.980 Is everyone as old as Amelia? 191 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:16.199 Evelyn is younger than Amelia, but and far sharper, but the same 192 00:08:16.199 --> 00:08:22.620 kind of wit and the same kind of no time for pomposity, you know 193 00:08:22.620 --> 00:08:25.079 very sort of down to earth and what have you. 194 00:08:25.139 --> 00:08:28.259 Because she's not as she's not as fussy as Amelia, but yeah, she's 195 00:08:28.259 --> 00:08:29.220 very much cut from the same cloth. 196 00:08:29.339 --> 00:08:32.340 Because Amelia works really well with the doctor, the doctor is so 197 00:08:32.340 --> 00:08:36.480 big and so compelling to watch, but she really kind of outperforms 198 00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:36.840 him. 199 00:08:36.899 --> 00:08:41.340 She really is able to stand up to his sort of scenery chewing and 200 00:08:41.340 --> 00:08:43.620 get herself seen. 201 00:08:43.740 --> 00:08:47.340 I love the humour that I think David Fisher brings into the 202 00:08:47.340 --> 00:08:47.820 script. 203 00:08:47.879 --> 00:08:51.000 But again, I mean, how much it's David, how much it's Anthony Reed 204 00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:51.779 on the same page. 205 00:08:51.840 --> 00:08:54.659 Like, you know, you're talking about, you know, when the doctor's 206 00:08:54.659 --> 00:08:57.960 tied up on the stone going to be sacrificed and she she shoes 207 00:08:57.960 --> 00:09:00.059 everybody away and she comes, what are you doing there? 208 00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:02.399 Why, you know, and pulls a knife on him. 209 00:09:02.639 --> 00:09:06.720 I don't mean to cut him free, but still, so she pulls that next to 210 00:09:06.720 --> 00:09:06.960 his face. 211 00:09:07.019 --> 00:09:09.539 And all the and all the stuff she gets to do with K 9. 212 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:10.620 I just think... 213 00:09:10.620 --> 00:09:13.019 Yeah, she's a great double act with K9 actually. 214 00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:16.320 A real success of David Fisher's scripts, and he'll do it again in 215 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:19.919 all his scripts, is whereas Holmes would give you the double act 216 00:09:19.919 --> 00:09:21.179 of other characters. 217 00:09:21.240 --> 00:09:26.460 So the master and Farrell or Jago and Lightfoot together or um 218 00:09:26.460 --> 00:09:28.320 Scarman and Su Tech. 219 00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:33.480 David Fisher's double acts is pairing up a guest cast member with 220 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:34.440 one of the regulars. 221 00:09:34.500 --> 00:09:38.279 So you've got the doctor and Professor Romford, you've got Romana 222 00:09:38.279 --> 00:09:41.519 and Vivian Faye, then you've got Professor Romford and K9. 223 00:09:41.580 --> 00:09:44.940 Because, of course, you know, once your characters are established 224 00:09:44.940 --> 00:09:47.580 it's sometimes hard to find new things to do with them. 225 00:09:47.639 --> 00:09:50.460 Tom and Mary are great at finding new ways to read lines with each 226 00:09:50.460 --> 00:09:51.120 other, of course. 227 00:09:51.179 --> 00:09:54.899 But instead, if you mix them up with other people and get to see 228 00:09:54.899 --> 00:09:58.679 them reacting strangely, especially with the doctor and Romana 229 00:09:58.679 --> 00:09:59.759 both being aliens. 230 00:09:59.820 --> 00:10:03.299 And I suppose the spoiler alert, Vivian being an alien as well. 231 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:06.779 The only sort of real human main character we have is Professor 232 00:10:06.779 --> 00:10:07.320 Romford. 233 00:10:07.379 --> 00:10:08.519 And that's the thing. 234 00:10:08.580 --> 00:10:11.940 She is so human compared to the doctor's aliens and compared to 235 00:10:11.940 --> 00:10:12.899 his grandiosity. 236 00:10:12.960 --> 00:10:14.879 And she brings him down without even trying. 237 00:10:14.940 --> 00:10:17.639 I think that's another difference between her and Evelyn. 238 00:10:17.700 --> 00:10:20.580 Evelyn like sort of tries to bring the 6 doctor down when he's 239 00:10:20.580 --> 00:10:21.360 being a bit bompous. 240 00:10:21.419 --> 00:10:26.100 Whereas Professor Rumford, she will brings him down just because 241 00:10:26.100 --> 00:10:29.100 she's fabulous in talking about sausage sandwiches and bringing 242 00:10:29.100 --> 00:10:32.580 Romana a thermos of tea because men are so unreliable, which 243 00:10:32.580 --> 00:10:35.399 brings me to another great thing David Fisher does. 244 00:10:35.460 --> 00:10:41.940 All of his stories have strong, well drawn roles for women, which 245 00:10:41.940 --> 00:10:45.240 is something that has been really sorely missing in the last few 246 00:10:45.240 --> 00:10:45.960 years of Doctor Who. 247 00:10:46.019 --> 00:10:48.720 So here we have Professor Romford and Vivian Faye. 248 00:10:48.779 --> 00:10:52.860 Even Martha as well, you know, because DeFreeze tries to send her 249 00:10:52.860 --> 00:10:55.500 away, but she very much knows her mind and, you know, I won't 250 00:10:55.500 --> 00:10:57.720 leave you, but earlier on, no, I won't do this. 251 00:10:57.779 --> 00:10:58.440 It's murder. 252 00:10:58.500 --> 00:10:59.940 You know, she speaks up for herself. 253 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:03.659 She's so bad I'm not going to leave you. 254 00:11:03.720 --> 00:11:05.940 Yeah, she's terrible, but it's a great chance. 255 00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:08.399 She might be terrible, but the one thing I did notice in this is 256 00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:11.519 that, you know, she's willing to speak up and say, look, we've 257 00:11:11.519 --> 00:11:13.139 sacrificed chickens or whatever it is before. 258 00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:17.220 This is going too far and so I actually, she brings a bit of 259 00:11:17.220 --> 00:11:19.919 humanity to that sort of stuff that's going on. 260 00:11:19.980 --> 00:11:23.399 So actually, you know, I have a lot more sympathy for her 261 00:11:23.399 --> 00:11:26.580 performance this time around than I have had previously. 262 00:11:26.639 --> 00:11:29.639 Then we get the campers. 263 00:11:29.700 --> 00:11:33.059 We get Pat and I don't think he's... 264 00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:33.840 He doesn't get a name. 265 00:11:33.899 --> 00:11:34.860 He'll be back. 266 00:11:34.919 --> 00:11:36.840 She's in Dragonfire. 267 00:11:36.899 --> 00:11:38.039 Well, she's dead in this. 268 00:11:38.159 --> 00:11:43.679 As a kid, as a kid, I just kind of thought, oh, well, yeah, he's a 269 00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:46.799 bit better than, but it did freak me out as a kid, like, you know 270 00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:49.500 these campers quite innocently, then like just die. 271 00:11:49.559 --> 00:11:52.740 And it's happened last year with that poor guy in the woods and 272 00:11:52.740 --> 00:11:53.940 image of the fend dial. 273 00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:56.159 That really did get to me. 274 00:11:56.159 --> 00:11:58.440 It's the skeleton hand. 275 00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:02.100 It's the skeleton hand and the screaming and the fade to red. 276 00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:03.059 Yeah, yeah. 277 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:07.740 Again, I think it's an example of the Williams era doing horror 278 00:12:07.740 --> 00:12:10.320 really well and going with the less is more approach. 279 00:12:10.379 --> 00:12:13.679 You know, you don't you don't need to see their gut spilling out 280 00:12:13.679 --> 00:12:14.580 or anything like that. 281 00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:17.580 You get it from the performances. 282 00:12:17.639 --> 00:12:20.039 Well, a pity they couldn't have done that with K9 after he's 283 00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:21.779 attached because you get all of that ticket tank. 284 00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:23.100 And steel wool. 285 00:12:23.159 --> 00:12:24.179 They're still wool wet. 286 00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:27.240 I mean, it's so unconvincing, and it's so great when Romana goes 287 00:12:27.240 --> 00:12:31.679 back to the Tartars with him to have whatever looks like a beta 288 00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:35.759 from an electronic whisk, like as she's prodding into, you know 289 00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:38.879 prodding into K9, you think, you know, I kind of think, oh, they 290 00:12:38.879 --> 00:12:39.960 could have done a bit better with that. 291 00:12:40.019 --> 00:12:44.460 What they couldn't have done any better with is the giant toppling 292 00:12:44.460 --> 00:12:51.480 fibreglass rocks that they decide to use as our enemy aliens for 293 00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:52.080 this week. 294 00:12:52.139 --> 00:12:55.559 They're really, really incredibly bad. 295 00:12:55.620 --> 00:12:57.960 No, I disagree as well. 296 00:12:58.019 --> 00:13:02.220 I find them actually quite stunning and I actually get was really 297 00:13:02.220 --> 00:13:04.500 frightened as a kid and I really think they look wonderful. 298 00:13:04.620 --> 00:13:05.460 Do you? 299 00:13:05.460 --> 00:13:09.179 And I, you know, it makes no sense that rocks move like that, but 300 00:13:09.179 --> 00:13:10.740 of course, they're not really rocks. 301 00:13:10.740 --> 00:13:11.879 They're ovary. 302 00:13:11.940 --> 00:13:15.179 And, you know, so I just imagine they sort of levitate very 303 00:13:15.179 --> 00:13:17.580 slightly, but some sort of rationing along. actually think they're 304 00:13:17.580 --> 00:13:17.940 fantastic. 305 00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:18.779 Yeah, yeah. 306 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:19.559 I really, really like them. 307 00:13:19.620 --> 00:13:21.840 I always think they look like they're about to fall over. 308 00:13:21.899 --> 00:13:25.379 Not for a 2nd they look like that they're actually made of rock. 309 00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:28.080 You know, they're like big fibreglass things. 310 00:13:28.139 --> 00:13:31.679 I think they have great sound design. you know what I mean? 311 00:13:31.740 --> 00:13:35.220 I think they're glowing yellow rocks is mental. 312 00:13:35.460 --> 00:13:38.340 Maybe, but I disagree with you. 313 00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:40.080 I found them terrifying as a child. 314 00:13:40.139 --> 00:13:42.600 And I think part of it is the sound design, that sort of 315 00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:43.080 heartbeat. 316 00:13:43.139 --> 00:13:47.460 But it's also, as the doctor says, And I think even before the 317 00:13:47.460 --> 00:13:50.460 doctor says this line, you realise it as a viewer, perhaps not 318 00:13:50.460 --> 00:13:52.320 consciously, how do you kill a stone? 319 00:13:52.620 --> 00:13:54.659 And that's the thing. 320 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:56.460 It's just a wall coming towards you. 321 00:13:56.519 --> 00:14:00.840 Now, in the original script, David Fisher had them toppling over 322 00:14:00.840 --> 00:14:02.279 onto people and crushing them. 323 00:14:02.340 --> 00:14:03.960 That would have been great. 324 00:14:04.019 --> 00:14:04.500 Yeah. 325 00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:06.480 Yeah, I'm glad they didn't go with that because that would have 326 00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:07.620 looked rather comical. 327 00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:10.860 I thought that they were going to be rock men in David Fisher's 328 00:14:10.860 --> 00:14:11.220 group. 329 00:14:11.340 --> 00:14:12.539 That was the other thing. 330 00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:15.659 And Daryl Blake kind of said, well, look, you know, we can make 331 00:14:15.659 --> 00:14:18.240 the suit and it's not going to look terribly convincing and then 332 00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:21.779 we've got to have a special effect to get them to morph from the 333 00:14:21.779 --> 00:14:24.059 upright thing to the suit. 334 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:26.220 There's not that many scenes of them attacking people. 335 00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:27.779 Let's just have them as upright rocks. 336 00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:31.379 And I think it's actually a much better solution because if we 337 00:14:31.379 --> 00:14:36.960 think back to the male Eldrad's costume, we weren't we weren't big 338 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:39.779 fans of that as well, and it just would have been more of the same 339 00:14:39.779 --> 00:14:40.259 of that. 340 00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:43.620 It helps emphasise their alienness. 341 00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:45.059 They're not bipedal. 342 00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:46.139 They're not binocular. 343 00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:48.899 You can't talk to them or reason with them because they don't 344 00:14:48.899 --> 00:14:51.600 communicate on the same level of rocks because they're just big 345 00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:53.940 rocks. they should come back in a new series. 346 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:59.039 Gareth Roberts, I think, once wrote a comic strip, must have been 347 00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:01.620 Gareth Roberts, but couldn't be anyone else. 348 00:15:01.740 --> 00:15:07.799 Yeah, for DWM, in which the one that the doctor kind of matadors 349 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:12.299 off the cliff gets crushed into sand and becomes sentient sand 350 00:15:12.299 --> 00:15:13.200 that attacks people. 351 00:15:13.259 --> 00:15:14.159 Do you remember that? 352 00:15:14.220 --> 00:15:15.059 yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 353 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:16.919 I think it was Gareth Robertson. 354 00:15:16.980 --> 00:15:17.639 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 355 00:15:17.700 --> 00:15:19.620 Oh, can I just say, though, that cliff? 356 00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:24.419 There are 2 moments in classic Doctor Who where I did the behind 357 00:15:24.419 --> 00:15:25.500 the sofa thing. 358 00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:26.700 Okay. 359 00:15:26.700 --> 00:15:29.100 Except in my case, our sofa was up against the wall. 360 00:15:29.159 --> 00:15:31.740 So I actually had to run into the other room where you could still 361 00:15:31.740 --> 00:15:34.259 just see the TV from and hide behind a bookcase. 362 00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:36.720 So we had a bookcase against the wall and I put my head into the 363 00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:38.399 Funkin Wagnall's bookcase we had. 364 00:15:38.460 --> 00:15:41.820 My parents had a set of Funkin Wagnals encyclopaedias and just 365 00:15:41.820 --> 00:15:43.740 sort of poked my head around until it was done. 366 00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:46.500 It was the cliffhanger where Romana goes off the cliff. 367 00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:50.399 I found it really confusing as a kid because Tom, of course 368 00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:54.360 refused to actually participate in pushing her off the cliff and 369 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:55.799 been in those sequences up to it. 370 00:15:55.860 --> 00:15:59.340 And so when she's looking and the voices there, I was kind of 371 00:15:59.340 --> 00:16:00.120 going, what's going on? 372 00:16:00.179 --> 00:16:02.220 Now I actually think it's quite effective that it's just his 373 00:16:02.220 --> 00:16:02.460 voice. 374 00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:04.679 I actually do think it's a problem. 375 00:16:04.740 --> 00:16:08.639 It is hard to tell what's meant to be happening. as a child, yeah 376 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:09.360 as a child. 377 00:16:09.480 --> 00:16:12.779 Now, I think personally, I know the story, I know what's happening 378 00:16:12.779 --> 00:16:13.740 but yes, it is a problem. 379 00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:17.580 And then unfortunately you get Mary's scream and she's not really 380 00:16:17.580 --> 00:16:18.360 a screamer. 381 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:23.039 And then in the next episode, she spends, I don't know, she must 382 00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:25.919 have great carbs or something, but she's on that cliff forever. 383 00:16:25.980 --> 00:16:29.519 And then you get the CSO of the sea, and then that awful shot 384 00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:30.419 when... 385 00:16:30.419 --> 00:16:32.220 Yeah, he's pulling it back up. 386 00:16:32.220 --> 00:16:32.460 Yeah. 387 00:16:32.460 --> 00:16:34.620 And the sunset, which just doesn't work. 388 00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:36.360 And they just stay on it too long. 389 00:16:36.419 --> 00:16:38.580 It's the one sequence in this whole story that doesn't work 390 00:16:38.580 --> 00:16:41.580 because I actually think the outside broadcast stuff because it's 391 00:16:41.580 --> 00:16:42.360 done a video. 392 00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:43.320 It done on video. 393 00:16:43.379 --> 00:16:43.860 It looks great. 394 00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:46.320 Yeah, yeah, and they have night shoots, you know? 395 00:16:46.379 --> 00:16:49.139 Yeah, they have night shoes. they have some day for night and it's 396 00:16:49.139 --> 00:16:51.120 and it's some of the better day for night that I've seen. 397 00:16:51.179 --> 00:16:53.399 I never think days great. night's any good. 398 00:16:53.460 --> 00:16:56.279 It's not great, but it's better than some of the other stuff we 399 00:16:56.279 --> 00:16:56.580 get. 400 00:16:56.639 --> 00:16:58.740 I mean, the key for Dave tonight is you either want to have a 401 00:16:58.740 --> 00:17:00.840 completely clear sky or a completely cloudy sky. 402 00:17:00.899 --> 00:17:04.019 If you get patches like we saw in Doctor No a couple of months ago 403 00:17:04.019 --> 00:17:07.079 it becomes really obvious that it's that it's day. 404 00:17:07.140 --> 00:17:13.140 That cliffhanger, I rationalise to myself as a child in that we 405 00:17:13.140 --> 00:17:15.720 don't see who pushes Romana off the cliff, but I never thought 406 00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:17.519 it's a projection of the doctor. 407 00:17:17.579 --> 00:17:20.759 I thought, they're using the doctor to call her out there and then 408 00:17:20.759 --> 00:17:22.799 someone else pushes her off the cliff. 409 00:17:22.859 --> 00:17:26.400 But then she climbs back up and has the whole thing of, no, no, it 410 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:27.119 was you, it was you. 411 00:17:27.180 --> 00:17:29.759 And as a kid, I just went, oh, okay, that's what was happening. 412 00:17:29.819 --> 00:17:30.420 Yeah, yeah. 413 00:17:30.420 --> 00:17:32.400 I think it's most unclear. 414 00:17:32.460 --> 00:17:36.240 And I think it's very surprising for Tom to say that because, of 415 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:40.440 course, just 3 years earlier, he had no problem playing his robot 416 00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:41.279 replica. 417 00:17:41.339 --> 00:17:44.339 Well, what about what about Todd pointed this out the other day in 418 00:17:44.339 --> 00:17:47.819 conversation that he's quite happy for the cliffhanger of episode 419 00:17:47.819 --> 00:17:51.480 2 of the next story to run up to Romana and Clubber in the head. 420 00:17:51.539 --> 00:17:52.079 Yeah, yeah. 421 00:17:52.140 --> 00:17:53.279 Yes, yes, yes. 422 00:17:53.339 --> 00:17:54.119 We were talking about this, yeah. 423 00:17:54.180 --> 00:17:57.240 Yeah, I think he was probably just being a bit Tom. 424 00:17:57.299 --> 00:17:58.019 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 425 00:17:58.079 --> 00:17:59.579 He was just being crunchety, I think. 426 00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:02.519 But there's so many nice little things out on location. 427 00:18:02.579 --> 00:18:05.460 Like I love it when he just throws the umbrella away, you know, for 428 00:18:05.460 --> 00:18:06.119 no reason at all. 429 00:18:06.180 --> 00:18:09.420 I assume that Romana picks it up on a way back to the Tartist. 430 00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:10.380 It is littering. 431 00:18:10.619 --> 00:18:11.160 It did worry me. 432 00:18:11.220 --> 00:18:13.859 Like, I just love the fact that she wears the most inappropriate 433 00:18:13.859 --> 00:18:16.440 shoes to measure the ground density or whatever it is that she 434 00:18:16.440 --> 00:18:19.140 does and then I don't particularly like that outfit, but I do like 435 00:18:19.140 --> 00:18:21.420 the red dress that she comes back. 436 00:18:21.420 --> 00:18:21.900 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 437 00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:25.140 Before Vivian Fay decides to get dressed up to look like some sort 438 00:18:25.140 --> 00:18:28.319 of owl because that's what you do when you're the villain of the 439 00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:30.779 week and pushes her into the vortex. 440 00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:34.380 I love that Romana doesn't react to the fact that Vivian's dressed 441 00:18:34.380 --> 00:18:36.839 up as an hour because for Romana, that's just, oh, okay, that's 442 00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:37.740 evening wear on this planet. 443 00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:38.099 Fine. 444 00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:40.200 She did say she'd been a brown owl before. 445 00:18:40.259 --> 00:18:41.819 Exactly, maybe that's it. 446 00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:44.279 I just thought the baby instead of goes, oh, what's going on there 447 00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:47.160 in the circle, you know, let's go find out and then pushes her 448 00:18:47.160 --> 00:18:47.279 in. 449 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:50.519 And so that's when the story takes a big turn because suddenly 450 00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:54.059 we're in hyperspace and we're throwing the kind of horror premise 451 00:18:54.059 --> 00:18:56.579 away a little bit and replacing it with a science fiction 452 00:18:56.579 --> 00:18:57.119 premise. 453 00:18:57.180 --> 00:19:01.019 And I've certainly heard people express the opinion that the 2nd 2 454 00:19:01.019 --> 00:19:04.259 episodes are weaker than the 1st ones, but I have to say that I 455 00:19:04.259 --> 00:19:08.400 really, really, really enjoy the 2nd half. 456 00:19:08.460 --> 00:19:10.319 So I think the set is really good. 457 00:19:10.380 --> 00:19:13.980 Like the spaceship set is, you know, well designed. 458 00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:15.900 We get to see a Wiran. 459 00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:17.039 We get to see a Weiran again. 460 00:19:17.099 --> 00:19:18.359 Well, in a cupboard. 461 00:19:18.420 --> 00:19:23.400 It is funny, like, you know, that Romana is in this cell with an 462 00:19:23.400 --> 00:19:27.480 Android and there's the we're in, like, there's no continuity 463 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:29.880 between production teams. just like these old things around. 464 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:31.319 We just put them in there. 465 00:19:31.380 --> 00:19:31.799 So be it. 466 00:19:31.859 --> 00:19:34.980 Have you noticed that the Android has really big comedy red lips? 467 00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:35.880 Yes. 468 00:19:35.940 --> 00:19:36.779 Have a look again. 469 00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:41.279 It's a kraal android, but with big googly eyes and comedy Jessica 470 00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:42.480 Rabbit red lips. 471 00:19:42.539 --> 00:19:44.039 It's very strange. 472 00:19:44.099 --> 00:19:49.440 And then suddenly we get the reveal that Vivian Faye, who we know 473 00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:52.859 is a kind of man hating villain. 474 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:57.480 She's she killed her husband on his on their wedding night. 475 00:19:57.539 --> 00:19:58.559 Three of them, I think. 476 00:19:58.619 --> 00:20:02.339 Yeah, Señor Kamara didn't make the crossing over from Brazil. 477 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:04.319 It's a great cliffhanger. 478 00:20:04.380 --> 00:20:07.079 I love conceptual cliffhangers or reveal cliffhangers. 479 00:20:07.140 --> 00:20:11.279 Things like last year with I've locked the creature in with us. 480 00:20:11.339 --> 00:20:15.480 Yeah, and so this one, it's the series of portraits of Vivian Faye 481 00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:16.380 that are all the same person. 482 00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:20.279 And originally that was going to then lead into the titles, but 483 00:20:20.279 --> 00:20:23.099 the episode was underrunning, so they moved the Romana getting 484 00:20:23.099 --> 00:20:25.319 transported scene, which still works as a cliffhanger. 485 00:20:25.380 --> 00:20:27.660 You know, it's it's a double cliffhanger. 486 00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:28.079 That's fine. 487 00:20:28.140 --> 00:20:32.700 So then we actually get to see her in real life and she's silver. 488 00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:37.259 And there's a fabulous moment where in the trial, which we'll get 489 00:20:37.259 --> 00:20:41.339 to in a minute where she says, I'm Vivian Faye of Rose Cottage, you 490 00:20:41.339 --> 00:20:44.579 know, ask anyone in Boscow and they'll recognise me and kind of go 491 00:20:44.579 --> 00:20:47.400 yeah, but they will kind of thing, what the hell are you doing 492 00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:49.140 looking all silver like that? 493 00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:50.819 So is she normal silver? 494 00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:52.559 And she paints her body. 495 00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:53.519 Yeah, foundation. 496 00:20:53.579 --> 00:20:55.920 Yeah, she just puts a lot of foundation on normally. 497 00:20:55.980 --> 00:20:56.819 No, no. 498 00:20:56.880 --> 00:20:58.079 The, the... 499 00:20:58.380 --> 00:21:00.059 Of course it's a segment. 500 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:01.619 The segment lets a change. 501 00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:05.099 Yeah, because this is the 1st indication we have that the segments 502 00:21:05.099 --> 00:21:08.819 have individual property is in and of themselves because Romana 503 00:21:08.819 --> 00:21:12.240 comments that the 3rd segment has the power to change objects or 504 00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:13.019 at least their appearance. 505 00:21:13.079 --> 00:21:15.359 So it's like, well, all the segments seem to have that power 506 00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:17.640 seeing as one of them's been a lump of Jethric, and one of them's 507 00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:18.059 been a planet. 508 00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:21.359 I like the fact that at the beginning of the story, we have enough 509 00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:23.759 time for them to put their segments together. 510 00:21:23.819 --> 00:21:27.299 Ramana can do it and the doctor can't and we get the little recap 511 00:21:27.299 --> 00:21:29.880 with the... 512 00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:32.400 Finding the doctor tells Ramana that it wasn't the president. 513 00:21:32.460 --> 00:21:33.720 Thank goodness we get over that. 514 00:21:33.779 --> 00:21:34.380 Yeah. 515 00:21:34.380 --> 00:21:35.099 Yeah, yeah. 516 00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:39.000 I also quite like in that early on with Romana's outfits. 517 00:21:39.059 --> 00:21:41.940 He sort of tries to walk through and she's like, not yet. 518 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:43.019 What do you mean, not yet? 519 00:21:43.079 --> 00:21:44.099 I'm not ready yet. 520 00:21:44.579 --> 00:21:45.960 What? 521 00:21:46.019 --> 00:21:51.359 The doctor has no idea that we get this great joke that women like 522 00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:53.579 to change their clothes and what have you. 523 00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:58.319 But of course, with Romana, one can understand that she is 524 00:21:58.319 --> 00:22:01.980 exploring new outfits and new looks because Time Lord Society is 525 00:22:01.980 --> 00:22:03.839 so staid and so stolid, you know. 526 00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:05.160 The frocks are so terrible. 527 00:22:05.220 --> 00:22:06.240 And the frocks are so terrible. 528 00:22:06.299 --> 00:22:09.180 She just would have had a pink velour number like Rodan. 529 00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:13.680 And I'm saying Rodana's Rodan, because of course that's a giant 530 00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:15.720 pterodactyl monster from Godzilla series. 531 00:22:15.779 --> 00:22:20.880 No, of course, Roman is trapped in hyperspace. forever. 532 00:22:20.940 --> 00:22:25.319 But of course, here in hyperspace, we do have a trial with a few 533 00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:26.759 interesting characters. 534 00:22:26.819 --> 00:22:30.839 Yeah, so Cesare is there looking on the trial. 535 00:22:30.900 --> 00:22:33.720 She's covered in silver and all I can think about when I'm 536 00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:39.000 watching her on screen is the makeup lady applying silver to her 537 00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:41.519 breasts and what that would have been like. 538 00:22:41.579 --> 00:22:44.279 It's actually a very low plunging taste. 539 00:22:44.339 --> 00:22:45.539 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 540 00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:49.740 This does not... 541 00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:51.119 It's the Magara. 542 00:22:51.180 --> 00:22:54.059 Oh, I love the Magara, the justice machines. 543 00:22:54.119 --> 00:22:56.640 The flashing lights, the little bleep, bleep, bleep, bleeps, and 544 00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:59.160 the little conversations, they have like, you know, when the 545 00:22:59.160 --> 00:23:02.519 doctor makes his escape, like my eloquent defence of your client 546 00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:03.420 and all that sort of stuff. 547 00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:04.440 It's just so funny. 548 00:23:04.500 --> 00:23:09.119 And again, I kind of think that they are like Rubik's cube boxes 549 00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:11.339 like actual machines, but you don't see that they've got their 550 00:23:11.339 --> 00:23:13.859 chameleon circuit flashing and that sort of thing. 551 00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:17.220 So that sort of is hovering in space or whatever. 552 00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:19.559 I think that's a great way of realising them too. 553 00:23:19.619 --> 00:23:22.680 It doesn't work 100% of the time because the actor's sight lines 554 00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:23.279 are off and off. 555 00:23:23.339 --> 00:23:28.380 But it is much better than having some stupid ball thing or, you 556 00:23:28.380 --> 00:23:30.000 know, something floating in the air. 557 00:23:30.059 --> 00:23:31.019 I think they're really good. 558 00:23:31.079 --> 00:23:34.859 And I think it helps the line, you know, where the doctor says, you 559 00:23:34.859 --> 00:23:37.619 know, that he's worried that he might be found guilty because 560 00:23:37.619 --> 00:23:40.019 they've got a bit of fluff in their sprockets or whatever you've 561 00:23:40.019 --> 00:23:40.859 got in there. 562 00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:44.160 The fact that they're just sort of a box of flashing lights, you 563 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:48.420 know, that I think that really helps that line work better. 564 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:50.819 We'll get back to the witnesses that he calls. 565 00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:53.519 But the last witness. when he says I have another witness to call 566 00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:54.539 and they go, who? 567 00:23:54.599 --> 00:23:56.460 And he goes, you. 568 00:23:56.519 --> 00:23:59.940 I mean, that always takes me by, took me by surprise as a kid. 569 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:01.079 I just thought it was really, really clever. 570 00:24:01.140 --> 00:24:04.740 You know, and then they go, they're having their little animated 571 00:24:04.740 --> 00:24:07.500 conversation about, you know, this is more still regulating, sort 572 00:24:07.500 --> 00:24:08.460 of, I just love that. 573 00:24:08.519 --> 00:24:13.799 But of course, he does call other witnesses, one of which is... 574 00:24:13.859 --> 00:24:14.279 Oh, yes. 575 00:24:14.339 --> 00:24:16.500 This is Romana, he calls. 576 00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:19.799 And, you know, in the guidebooks and the companion books and all 577 00:24:19.799 --> 00:24:20.819 of that sort of thing. 578 00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:24.180 Romana's name is always given as Romana Verat Trilunda. 579 00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:27.900 But in fact, Tom and Mary don't pronounce it that way at all this 580 00:24:27.900 --> 00:24:28.319 season. 581 00:24:28.380 --> 00:24:32.819 So she's Romana de Varat Nalunda when she's introduced in the 582 00:24:32.819 --> 00:24:34.019 rebos operation. 583 00:24:34.619 --> 00:24:37.500 And here, of course, in the formality of the courtroom, the doctor 584 00:24:37.500 --> 00:24:40.440 refers to her as Miss Devaratnalunda. 585 00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:42.180 That's hilarious. 586 00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:44.220 Hilarious. just love it. 587 00:24:44.279 --> 00:24:46.920 You know, there's so many good things about it. 588 00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:51.359 In a way, I understand when people say, oh, you know, it all goes 589 00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:55.200 to hell in the last 2 episodes, but really what it is, it's kind 590 00:24:55.200 --> 00:24:57.660 of like the horror premise has played out. 591 00:24:57.720 --> 00:24:59.640 We've had the chase, we've had people die. 592 00:24:59.700 --> 00:25:03.900 So we could leather rinse repeat, but even Hinchcliffe didn't do 593 00:25:03.900 --> 00:25:04.079 that. 594 00:25:04.140 --> 00:25:06.420 If you look at Pyramids of Mars, you know, we go off to Mars for 595 00:25:06.420 --> 00:25:06.900 the last episode. 596 00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:08.640 For a terrible last episode. 597 00:25:08.759 --> 00:25:10.019 Yeah, and this is so much better. 598 00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:13.200 And especially things like when Romana is asked to call her, call 599 00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:14.339 herself a mere humanoid. 600 00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:16.319 She says, I object to the wording. 601 00:25:16.380 --> 00:25:21.059 But in fact, the Megara, ah, great kind of Douglas Adams style 602 00:25:21.059 --> 00:25:22.740 creation, aren't they? 603 00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:24.660 You know, they're justice machines. 604 00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:29.819 Douglas Adams is very much about bureaucracy and the way that 605 00:25:29.819 --> 00:25:33.960 systems are cruel to individual people and also about the way that 606 00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:37.980 technology gets out of control or, you know, impacts negatively on 607 00:25:37.980 --> 00:25:40.019 our lives in a way that we don't expect. 608 00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:42.960 So these are justice machines with absolute contempt for 609 00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:43.799 humanity. 610 00:25:43.859 --> 00:25:47.220 Like, the only reason to care about justice is because you care 611 00:25:47.220 --> 00:25:47.880 about people. 612 00:25:47.940 --> 00:25:49.200 Do you know what I mean? 613 00:25:49.259 --> 00:25:51.900 Because justice is something that you do to people. 614 00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:54.480 So if you don't care about people, if you've got out of contempt 615 00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:55.259 for them. 616 00:25:55.319 --> 00:25:56.759 What the hell is the point of justice? 617 00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:01.019 But these, they have absolute contempt for human beings, and we 618 00:26:01.019 --> 00:26:04.799 learn, of course, that they were called in one time by a big 619 00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:08.099 galactic federation, and they found the galactic federation in 620 00:26:08.099 --> 00:26:11.339 contempt of court, and blew up the entire galaxy, and that's a 621 00:26:11.339 --> 00:26:13.500 complete kind of Douglas Adams sort of thing. 622 00:26:13.559 --> 00:26:16.920 And so the idea that your legal counsel might be involved in 623 00:26:16.920 --> 00:26:20.880 executing you later on, you know, is very much along those lines. 624 00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:24.720 I want to go back to the pronunciation of Romana's now. 625 00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:28.980 Because for me, it'll always be Romana Voltana. 626 00:26:29.160 --> 00:26:34.019 And I'm now going to go into sidetrack, which is a bit of a 627 00:26:34.019 --> 00:26:35.400 convention anecdote. 628 00:26:35.460 --> 00:26:36.599 I don't know, you should remember this. 629 00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:38.099 Yeah, I remember him very well. 630 00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:39.539 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 631 00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:43.259 So Mary Tam came out to Australia in 1993 for convention, which 632 00:26:43.259 --> 00:26:45.839 was the 1st convention that I was involved with helping and I was 633 00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:48.720 just one of the little clems and he became much more important 634 00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:49.380 later on. 635 00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:55.859 And I picked Mary and her daughter, Lauren up from the airport. 636 00:26:55.859 --> 00:26:58.920 And Mary was suffering from a throat condition. 637 00:26:58.980 --> 00:27:04.440 She was already very croaky, going from hot to cold, you know, and 638 00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:06.240 so I was very green in those days. 639 00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:09.359 And so I decided, well, we were going to Parramatta for the 640 00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:12.660 convention, which was about a 50 minute drive from the airport, but 641 00:27:12.660 --> 00:27:15.059 I thought, oh, no, what we'll do is we'll drive over the harbour 642 00:27:15.059 --> 00:27:19.740 bridge and we'll show you the opera house and, you know, a good 643 00:27:19.740 --> 00:27:23.579 adding a good 15 to 20 minutes on our trip at that time. 644 00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:27.119 But for whatever reason, that day in Sydney, like this fog just 645 00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:27.960 blanketed everything. 646 00:27:28.019 --> 00:27:28.859 You could see nothing. 647 00:27:28.920 --> 00:27:31.259 It was so muggy and hot. 648 00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:33.960 We were so hot in the car and I turned on the air conditioning. 649 00:27:34.079 --> 00:27:37.680 The air conditioning had this conniption, which I just, you know, I 650 00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:38.099 don't know. 651 00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:42.599 All this white gas just went out of the air conditioner straight 652 00:27:42.599 --> 00:27:44.220 into Marytown in my face. 653 00:27:44.339 --> 00:27:47.819 Like, it never had it before, never had it since, right? 654 00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:51.420 So I almost gassed Mary Tanned in the car. 655 00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:54.420 But I might have got a handset that show had a throat that was, you 656 00:27:54.420 --> 00:27:55.859 know, a croaking voice. 657 00:27:55.920 --> 00:27:56.940 So it wasn't my fault. 658 00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:58.799 I'm just saying to people who went to that convention. 659 00:27:58.859 --> 00:28:02.880 At that time, Doctor Who was getting shown, I think, on repeats in 660 00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:04.799 the morning on the ABC, like really early in the morning. 661 00:28:04.859 --> 00:28:07.500 The cupboard managed to get an announcement to say that there was 662 00:28:07.500 --> 00:28:10.920 a evention coming up with various guests because back then 663 00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:12.720 listeners, we didn't have the internet. 664 00:28:12.779 --> 00:28:15.900 So what we had was we had an answering machine service basically 665 00:28:15.900 --> 00:28:17.519 ring someone's number. 666 00:28:17.579 --> 00:28:21.779 So, a friend of the podcast, Peter Griffiths, had an answering 667 00:28:21.779 --> 00:28:24.299 machine, and they came back to the answering machine in the next 668 00:28:24.299 --> 00:28:27.119 few days, and there was this child's voice on there. 669 00:28:27.180 --> 00:28:29.940 I can only imagine it's like that child that becomes the 670 00:28:29.940 --> 00:28:33.119 tochlophane in season three. 671 00:28:33.180 --> 00:28:36.240 And the child said, oh, hello, I'd like some more information 672 00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:42.059 about the Huvention with Joe Grant, the Turlo, and Romana 673 00:28:42.059 --> 00:28:43.079 Voltran. 674 00:28:43.140 --> 00:28:47.700 So Roman of Voltana got shortened and became Voltran, so Mary 675 00:28:47.700 --> 00:28:48.960 suffered from Voltran. 676 00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:50.400 Yeah, it was a terrible illness. 677 00:28:50.460 --> 00:28:52.619 Terriblely throughout that entire convention. 678 00:28:53.400 --> 00:28:59.819 And yeah, she was, she was... 679 00:28:59.880 --> 00:29:03.480 And if that young child is out there listening to us now. 680 00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:08.339 Our voicemail is, no, they didn't leave their number. 681 00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:09.660 It was just that was it. 682 00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:12.539 Hang up, kick goodbye, you know, so they never found out who it 683 00:29:12.539 --> 00:29:12.779 was. 684 00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:16.559 Please let us know so we can give you information on that 685 00:29:16.559 --> 00:29:17.039 convention. 686 00:29:17.099 --> 00:29:19.200 I like Tom's barrister's wig. 687 00:29:19.259 --> 00:29:22.799 But he's pulled off that he has a barrister's wig in his pocket 688 00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:23.819 and he just pulls it out. 689 00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:24.900 I think that's spectacular. 690 00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:28.680 I have a barrister's wig in my pocket right now, just in case. 691 00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:31.680 But I just have all the witticisms and I think that's part of 692 00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:34.559 Antony Reid and David Fisher. 693 00:29:34.619 --> 00:29:35.640 I'm not from outer space. 694 00:29:35.700 --> 00:29:36.539 I'm from inner time. 695 00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:38.579 Little things like that, but... 696 00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:43.319 I love how the Magara sentence Vivian Faye to 1500 years 697 00:29:43.319 --> 00:29:47.400 imprisonment, followed by perpetual imprisonment, and they're to 698 00:29:47.400 --> 00:29:48.779 be served consecutively. 699 00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:52.380 Well that's how they do things in America, you know. 700 00:29:52.440 --> 00:30:00.539 I have always quite liked the idea that sometime around 3478, you 701 00:30:00.539 --> 00:30:03.779 know, there might be a moment where Sisera of Diplos could 702 00:30:03.779 --> 00:30:04.859 escape. 703 00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:06.900 And you know, they could bring back Susan Engle. 704 00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:07.680 She's still acting. 705 00:30:07.740 --> 00:30:09.779 I saw her in Midsummer a few weeks ago, you know. 706 00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:11.279 You said she's looking pretty good. 707 00:30:11.339 --> 00:30:12.420 She's looking pretty good. 708 00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:13.619 I just think it's so funny. 709 00:30:13.619 --> 00:30:16.319 I think it's so funny the way that Amelia just has to redo the 710 00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:19.319 whole survey with like Vivian as a stone right there. 711 00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:20.940 Three of the other stones gone. 712 00:30:21.059 --> 00:30:22.140 Yeah, yeah. 713 00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:26.099 And then she gets a very, very quick goodbye to the doctor 714 00:30:26.099 --> 00:30:26.700 Ramana. 715 00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:30.240 It's very rushed there at the end, but her top is very see 716 00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:30.240 through. 717 00:30:30.359 --> 00:30:34.380 Yes, we do get some Beatrix Lehman nipple in that scene, which is 718 00:30:34.380 --> 00:30:35.460 a little bit unfortunate. 719 00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:36.240 It was very cold. 720 00:30:36.299 --> 00:30:38.819 I don't think she, I don't think she believed in wearing a bra. 721 00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:39.480 No. 722 00:30:39.480 --> 00:30:40.799 And I do like it's fine. 723 00:30:40.859 --> 00:30:44.279 I do like the comedy ending with, again, with the doctor, failing 724 00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:49.019 to put the key to time together as a jigsaw and giving a withering 725 00:30:49.019 --> 00:30:50.819 look to... 726 00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:54.480 In fact, I think we call back in the Armageddon factor, and I 727 00:30:54.480 --> 00:30:57.599 think Romana has to do the assembly again. 728 00:30:57.660 --> 00:31:00.119 Yeah, it's something that comes up a number of times. 729 00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:03.900 It's rather, I think it's quite fun. that she can't recognise what 730 00:31:03.900 --> 00:31:06.539 they are, but she can put them together. 731 00:31:06.599 --> 00:31:10.140 And he knows what they are, but can't put them together. 732 00:31:10.200 --> 00:31:12.119 This might be my favourite Graham Williams story. 733 00:31:12.180 --> 00:31:13.500 It's so very good. 734 00:31:13.559 --> 00:31:16.079 And there's very little to fault in it. 735 00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:20.279 And what there is to fold in it, there are so many other stories 736 00:31:20.279 --> 00:31:23.519 guilty of as well, you know, the occasional floppy prop or 737 00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:23.880 whatever. 738 00:31:23.940 --> 00:31:27.480 And it just seems like the entire cast had a great time making 739 00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:27.779 it. 740 00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:33.539 Like the bit where the Magara do go, it's fed up, modulated voices 741 00:31:33.539 --> 00:31:37.319 of David McAllister, and Gerald Cross, and they're saying things 742 00:31:37.319 --> 00:31:38.460 like, ping, ping, ping. 743 00:31:38.519 --> 00:31:39.299 There's my friend David. 744 00:31:39.299 --> 00:31:41.160 Bong, bong, bong, bing, bing, bing. 745 00:31:41.220 --> 00:31:42.480 So they're obviously having fun. 746 00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:46.259 And there's the famous story that John Leeson, who was actually in 747 00:31:46.259 --> 00:31:49.619 the outside broadcast fan doing canine's voice live, which is 748 00:31:49.619 --> 00:31:53.880 lovely, was out one day on a break, taking photos of the stones 749 00:31:53.880 --> 00:31:58.500 and got chatting with Beatrice Lehman about photography and what 750 00:31:58.500 --> 00:32:00.059 have you, and she loved dogs. 751 00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:01.920 So, you know, in her mind. 752 00:32:01.980 --> 00:32:02.640 Oh, you're a dog. 753 00:32:02.700 --> 00:32:03.059 I love you. 754 00:32:03.240 --> 00:32:07.319 At the cast after party, she walked up to him with this brown 755 00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:09.240 paper bag and said, this is for you. 756 00:32:09.299 --> 00:32:14.880 Open it, and it was her, I think, 20-year-old Lika camera. 757 00:32:14.940 --> 00:32:17.759 Incredibly expensive, incredibly valuable. 758 00:32:17.819 --> 00:32:19.319 And John's just like, what? 759 00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:21.720 And she just said, oh, I've not used it in years, darling. 760 00:32:21.779 --> 00:32:22.319 You have it. 761 00:32:22.380 --> 00:32:24.119 You love photography so much. 762 00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:27.299 And he just left going, What? 763 00:32:27.660 --> 00:32:30.839 It just sounds like everyone had such a fun time. 764 00:32:30.839 --> 00:32:34.140 And unlike other stories where people say, oh, yes, we had so much 765 00:32:34.140 --> 00:32:34.380 fun. 766 00:32:34.440 --> 00:32:36.359 The audience have fun with this as well. 767 00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:40.559 And even at the end, even though, you know, Vivian Fey has killed 768 00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:45.119 100s of people either by herself or by proxy through the ogre 769 00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:47.579 you're kind of like, oh, she's imprisoned. 770 00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:50.519 And yeah, the professor's lost a friend and she has to do the 771 00:32:50.519 --> 00:32:54.000 survey again, but she has an academic reputation to consider. 772 00:32:54.119 --> 00:32:58.799 It's such a good script and I'm so glad that we get more of David 773 00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:00.299 Fisher further down the line as well. 774 00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:04.680 I just, you know, as Nathan was saying so far this season, every 775 00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:08.579 story puts a smile to my face and I'm enjoying Doctor Who again. 776 00:33:08.700 --> 00:33:10.799 Yeah, it really is a fun year. 777 00:33:24.299 --> 00:33:28.740 Well, that is all the time we have for the Stones of Blood. 778 00:33:28.859 --> 00:33:33.480 We will be back next week for my personal favourite ever Doctor 779 00:33:33.480 --> 00:33:35.700 Who story, the Androids of Tara. 780 00:33:36.059 --> 00:33:36.299 Wow. 781 00:33:36.359 --> 00:33:37.079 Yeah, I know. 782 00:33:37.140 --> 00:33:38.160 That's a big call. 783 00:33:38.220 --> 00:33:39.119 I know. 784 00:33:39.180 --> 00:33:40.380 I will be explaining myself. 785 00:33:40.500 --> 00:33:41.940 Good. 786 00:33:42.180 --> 00:33:46.440 Until then, you can find us at our website, flightthroughentirety 787 00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:49.200 com, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE 788 00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:50.400 podcast on Twitter. 789 00:33:50.460 --> 00:33:54.839 Over on Bondfinger, we have the 1st 5 Sean Connery films available 790 00:33:54.839 --> 00:33:55.980 as commentary. 791 00:33:56.039 --> 00:33:59.579 So that's Dr. No from Russia with Love, Goldfinger, Thunderball 792 00:33:59.579 --> 00:34:01.140 and you only live twice. 793 00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:05.400 You can find those on Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and 794 00:34:05.400 --> 00:34:07.920 iTunes and Bondfinger cast on Twitter. 795 00:34:07.980 --> 00:34:11.699 Until then, may all your citric acid products be used in the 796 00:34:11.699 --> 00:34:12.719 defence of planet Earth. 797 00:34:12.780 --> 00:34:13.559 Thank you very much and good night. 798 00:34:13.619 --> 00:34:14.460 Good night. 799 00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:15.059 See you soon. 800 00:34:18.119 --> 00:34:21.780 That was flight through entirety with Todd BLB, Nathan Bottonley 801 00:34:21.780 --> 00:34:22.739 and Brendan Jones. 802 00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:27.179 This episode, the full Ed Will Morgan, was recorded on the 4th of 803 00:34:27.179 --> 00:34:28.199 October, 2015. 804 00:34:28.440 --> 00:34:32.519 The next episode will be released on December 27th. much like 805 00:34:32.519 --> 00:34:36.059 hyperspace, we hope that this podcast is a theoretical absurdity 806 00:34:36.059 --> 00:34:37.619 that you've always wanted to get lost in. 807 00:34:44.039 --> 00:34:45.719 I am on. 808 00:34:45.780 --> 00:34:46.320 You are on. 809 00:34:46.380 --> 00:34:46.739 Fantastic. 810 00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:53.159 Uh, well, I just need to remember what my, my thing was... 811 00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:54.599 Things of blood. 812 00:34:54.659 --> 00:34:56.219 Oh, yeah, I remember.