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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:26:13

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Hello, everyone, and welcome to the latest episode of Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast with a slightly chumbly motion.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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Richard.

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And we're back for Doctor Who season three.

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The longest series of Doctor Who ever produced.

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You're about to find her out. 45 episodes.

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So, look, we're just going to jump straight in with Galaxy 4.

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Galaxy 4.

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So the 1st story of series three, like Planet of Giants, it was produced with the previous season and held over, and it was the last production block to feature Verity Lambert, because the next story was made back to back with it.

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It's the 2nd story featuring the team of the Dr. Vicki and Steven.

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And sort of on the surface, at least, plays with the whole theme and idea of beauty and the beast.

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Yeah, because you've got the Dravans, who are evil space dusty Springfields. very topical at the time. and you've got the rills who are giant sort of warthog seal creatures and the anti-wizard of Oz seen through the same screen effect that the wizard was seen in the eponymous film.

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Yes, yeah.

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Ms. Garland.

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This starts a trend this season of stories which are based on a central idea.

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So the central idea here is fair is foul and foul is fair.

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But the real question then becomes, does it evolve beyond that into its own story?

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It becomes very 60s in this season.

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It stops looking at being entirely modern and fresh and new and starts finally, not finally, but I think more strongly looking at what's going on around it culturally, what's going on in England, what's popular, in other words, and really starting to just be a part of that.

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And you might argue that it becomes a little less of what it is itself and a little more of just what's going on around it.

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You, I mean, you say that happens with the introduction of Vicky, really.

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That's the 1st bit, but that's all.

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That's in isolation.

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So that's quite interesting, a thing to happen, and more in O'Brien's just so good that, you know, the only thing I've said before about the introduction of the Vicki character is that it's just a shame that the notions of the character behind Susan were not explored or were just truncated.

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But Vicky's terrific.

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She's just a very received construction of a character.

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Whereas Susan was a totally different thing that could have been anything if we'd allowed it to go in whatever direction.

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It was alien.

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We didn't know what was going to happen.

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We know exactly what Vicky is.

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Vicky is entirely contemporaneous and entirely outside.

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She's from another TV station, another TV show that's been dropped into Doctor Who's TV show.

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Rather than being sort of very alien or very futury sort of thing, they make her, say, futury things, like we've said before, but, um, yeah, can feel the word tropes, moving, somewhere, sort of inexorably towards this conversation. away behind my ears.

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This season for me, I might just jump in quickly, see what you all think, is the one where you get that clash.

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I was gonna say it later, but you brought it up early on.

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It's the season where, to me, camp, which had a slightly different definition to the one we use for camp now.

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It's, um, they didn't have a term but such for post-modernism in the way that we use it.

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So camp actually meant an analysis or a subjective look of the text or a subjective look of the world and of life, turn it halfway on its head and how to laugh at it.

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Pretty much what this season is doing is bringing that kind of sensibility, which was very much at the forefront of drama and film and writing at the mid 60s for reasons that we'll go into. was what was happening in the world at the time.

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But that notion of camp comes straight into what straight narrative would be.

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So, whereas Doctor Who was looking at itself and what it can develop and be as a modernist drama and really be freaky and subversive and surprising.

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It's now kind of starting to look back in and onto itself.

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I guess that just happens with a new producer.

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I'd like to throw in here the seminal essay where this is coming from with Susan Sontag's notes on camp, which came out in 1964.

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And he's really funny and kind of also a bit, oh, I mean, she was a queer writer, although she didn't come out for years.

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She was only, I mean, Liebovitz is the famous photographer's partner for many, many years.

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So her view is very much New York centric, cool, removed.

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I think Warhol's factory, but with an amazing amount of intellectualism thrown onto it, and she was very much big on the French theorists. anyway.

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The whole thing of culture turning itself around kind of like a snake biting its own tail and looking at itself is exactly what Doctor Who does this season and very much starting with this story with the dravers.

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So you're saying a story full of women with blonde beehives and sequined eyebrows.

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Well, look, you could stretch it that far if you really have to push it.

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But the drivers were written as male characters.

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And it was actually verity who was who made 2 suggestions right at the end with her with her line of notes was that how about you turn them into girls?

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And they were dusty Springfield Cindy dolls.

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Cindy was British answer to Barbie, but she had exactly that haircut when she came out and she was wearing almost that little outfit.

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It's quite weird with the white lace up boots and the little green smock.

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That's a Cindy doll.

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So, yeah, look, we'll find a picture and stick it out.

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It's hard to imagine how it could have worked with with men.

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Well, I think if it was with men, it would just sort of be a very standard runaround.

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And having them as female characters, but not rewriting them as stereotypical females as we keep coming back to it, like Kathy Gale and the Avengers. was just a male part with David crossed out and Kathy written in, but no other concessions made to the female stereotype.

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And that's what's happened here as well.

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That's a beautiful point, because you know that the other reversal was that the Barbara part was written in, and the lines were just given to Stephen, which is why he's in the airlock, pulling at his cardigan with the girls watching.

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He keeps mingling.

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He's wearing Barbara's wing.

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He's pushing...

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He is backcoming, I think.

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And there's a lovely piece of speed racer, Virgil Tracy back combing there.

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Thunderbirds was on.

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Do you reckon John Wiles was because John Wiles was one following Barity around on the ship?

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Very much so.

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Do you think he was hanging around off screen, taking notes of Stephen in an airlock as a neat way of getting rid of a companion you might want to get rid of in a future episode?

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Spoiler.

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It's possible because it's some pretty dark moments in this.

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It's also the 1st time that and the concept of an airlock has been used in Doctor Who.

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Because we don't see the airlock in the sensor, right?

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It's a whole new whole episode, just...

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And Peter Purpose sort of complains and says, you know, I played an astronaut.

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So you would think that Stephen would know about the dangers of an airlock, but now that we actually have the episode back and we can see it.

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It's not so much that he doesn't know the dangers of the airlock, but it's a matter of he's backing away from a room full of people with guns.

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He goes for the only door he can get to.

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On the other side of the door is something that'll kill him.

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And the reason he becomes trapped is because of a change in pressure.

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So it's not so much Stephen being stupid, which would have been quite problematic because, you know, it was written for Barbara.

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I think Barbara would understand the concept of an airlock as well and wouldn't get into it unless she had no other choice.

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But yeah, it's the raw reversal. so interesting.

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The females are the protagonists.

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And Stephen is impotent in this because he's playing the girly part.

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So thank you, verity for, you know, just making that nice little twist because I think this story would have been completely cindied all just in its pants without that.

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It would have been immensely dull.

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You know, can I say that?

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Sandafar.

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When Sandifer talks about this, he says it's not really trying, but it's, you know, just essentially boring sort of science fiction things that are retreaded and that the central conceit is really fairly obvious and all of that sort of thing.

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But personally, like, this is one of the ones where I'd listen to the audio a lot of times, and I really, really liked it.

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And there's, you know, sweet things like Vicky cutting Stephen's hair at the beginning or is that?

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No, that, that, that's further off.

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We're not there yet.

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Oh, okay.

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You sure?

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Yes, I'm sure.

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Yeah, that's mythmakers.

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It is.

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Anyway, um, but it's sort of fun and there's lots of interaction and, you know, we get out onto the, onto the planet and um, and wander around and things that's that usual sort of exploring thing.

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And I just sort of always really enjoyed it and thought it was sort of fun and camp.

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But then that, I'm right, aren't I?

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You are.

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This is where she shows us.

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She knows all about ammonia and hairdressing shit.

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She really is a girl of 1964, and she's about to do a big hell of Shapiro to him.

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I think it's a bloody big boof all.

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Ah, so she does the backcoming.

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She's really...

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She misses Barbara.

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She's probably been doing Barbara's hair, you know.

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Because I can't imagine what she would do, Ian.

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So she's been doing Barbara's hair and that's why Stephen has the backbone.

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This is a really interesting thing that in fact, this is the 1st one where we're talking about the camp thing.

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Maybe this is exactly what's going on here.

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Role reversal is integral to camp, to camp sensibilities, swapping roles, swapping expectancies.

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You know, he is a she, she is he.

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Get hurt.

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But I guess what I was about to say is, of course, we had the discovery of that episode that we mentioned.

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I was just astounded by how great it is.

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I mean, you know, I enjoyed it.

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I didn't think it was, you know, particularly earth shattering, but when you actually get to see it, There's just wonderful things, the design of the hilarious garden centre design of the real spaceship.

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Blop, blop.

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Yes. and they've got the vomp vomp machine that they've borrowed from the Dale.

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But it just looks terrific.

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It looks excellent.

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And you know, when you're imagining it in your head, you know, with the real looking through the window and all of that sort of thing.

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The pictures that you come up with in your head are nowhere near as clever as just this those amazing scaffolding things and all of that.

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And then the Chumbleys, which look a bit crummy in, bit cakey, a bit cakey, actually.

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But I'll explain later.

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Yeah, we didn't really talk about the cake.

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We should get back to it.

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We will get there.

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But the Chumblies are sort of wobbly and, you know, they've got little lights under the surface of the thing and they look, they look really...

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They're active and twitchy, which you don't see in a photo.

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The scene that sticks in my mind is when the rills agree to send the Chumblies to rescue Stephen and Billy is Billy's alone in the room with just the Chumblies and the reels.

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So pretty much it's like, right, Billy's alone in a room with a puppet and some robots.

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And so when the Chumblies are going out, Billy sort of stands like a general and points to the door several times.

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Go, go. and then runs off himself and it's, you just kind of go.

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He has such clout now, and this is, of course, where he starts to become disenchanted with the program, because all his friends are going or gone, but he's still so commanding in that scene and so much going, I'm in a room full of full of tiny robots and a puppet.

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I am going to play this like Hamlet.

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God damn it.

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And he really sells it.

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It is equal parts camp and stirring drama.

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Maybe not equal parts for me.

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We should mention Brian Hodgson because although, yeah, visually, this is really surprising.

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We didn't expect to see how lovely this is in all those so many ways.

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But it's the soundscape. you listening to it on audio, you just get how odd this was.

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Never forget, they're looking at tiny screens on a 405 lime TV.

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So what you're actually getting is the intimacy through the sound as much.

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And BBC is really, you know, cutting edge at this time on electronic curtain.

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Yeah, no, I mean, it does sound spectacular.

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And we kind of knew that for ages, but what was surprising was how good it looked.

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And, you know, there's other things like Stephanie Bid Me does that fabulous 2 camera model.

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We have a name, Stephanie Big Beat.

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Oh she's amazing.

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So that's Maga, the leader of the alien drama.

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You haven't mentioned racism yet, have what you... slimy claws to close around your necks.

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Really?

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Straight to camera.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Yeah, to make the lesser drama.

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She's right.

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Is that the plural?

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Yeah, well, they do have a sort of Dalek style xenophobia of, it's another race. therefore it is out to kill us.

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Yeah, which is really the ethos that Doctor Who adopts as a whole in the year's time or so.

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That brings me back to something I was going to say earlier in that, you know, it's this whole beauty in the beast story.

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But where it sort of turns that around a bit is in the very 1st scene where the Dravins actually talk to the doctor after they're back at their ship, we're pretty much told in that 1st scene, actually, they're not very nice people.

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You know, they're kind of like, men, what?

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Oh, yes, sort of work units.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Oh, well, we we, we keep some for labour and for other things, presumably.

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And then we kill the rest because they just eat our food, you know, and the doctor's just like, oh, this is terribly interesting.

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And Stephen just sort of looks around uncomfortably.

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But it already introduces the idea that despite the fact that they look beautiful.

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They do not have a beautiful culture and they do not have a culture that we would agree with.

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So already by midway through episode one, it's not just your standard beauty and the beast story.

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So it does start to transcend that idea early on.

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The doctor is reluctant, right, from the beginning to take the dravins at their word about the reels being evil, you know, like, and I think one of them says, oh, but, you know, aren't the reels murderers or something?

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And he says, no, no, we've only got their word for that.

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So he straight away.

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And I think when the real says to the doctor, you know, you wouldn't find our appearance pleasing or something like that.

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And he says, we're not, you know, like I'm not a child, you know, so he's kind of turning into the moral centre of the narrative, you know, from being the guy who might bash a caveman's brains out with a rock.

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If he needs to, he's now turned into kind of the moral centre of the narrative.

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And so we can't judge the rules because the doctor's already kind of refuse to do that.

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This is the season where the doctor becomes more and more external to the narratives?

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He just dropped into it.

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Well, I, you know, there's, there's this thing where with Barbara and Ian, they're the main characters.

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You know, and the doctors are kind of strange, high concept character off to the site and he exists to get them into trouble and kind of get them out of trouble, but essentially, it's the story of Ian and Barbara.

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And then they go away.

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So it's kind of got to be the story of the doctor, except that, um, and we're probably getting ahead of ourselves a bit here, they're going to start putting the doctor into stories that he's really not suited to, and then they're going to give him sort of weeks off and then they're going to kind of ease him out altogether.

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And so that's one of the reasons why I think this season's a bit of a problem is that the show really needs the doctor to be the central character now because he's the only member of the original cast who's still there.

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But they kind of want to, they're sick of him and they want to ease him out.

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I like that he takes a step back and becomes more of an observer in within his own story.

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I think it becomes more interesting for that.

200
00:16:54.960 --> 00:17:02.220
This is the 1st time too, I should jump in, where you get the idea that he's so concomitant with different visages and different aspects.

201
00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:06.480
There's that lovely line, is it David Tennant that says, you know, we could regenerate into anything.

202
00:17:06.539 --> 00:17:09.420
We don't know that time lords look like us.

203
00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:11.460
It might just be a perceptive field.

204
00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:13.200
It might just be the way we see.

205
00:17:13.259 --> 00:17:25.259
There might actually be a whole other level of being that simply appears in this dimension as humanoids because most of this universe appeal or these few several galaxies that we know appear to be largely humanoid.

206
00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:28.799
Well, they have to cast humans to play him. to help as well.

207
00:17:28.859 --> 00:17:31.079
But this is also within the narrative.

208
00:17:31.140 --> 00:17:38.759
I'd like to think that Billy recognises at this point the doctor recognises that the continuance is the energy of life, not merely the appearance of it.

209
00:17:38.819 --> 00:17:42.119
So, no, I like, I like, was it tenant or was it...

210
00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:45.119
No, don't you remember when Christopher Eckleston's about to regenerate?

211
00:17:45.180 --> 00:17:46.259
He says he might have no head.

212
00:17:46.259 --> 00:17:48.539
Thank you.

213
00:17:48.599 --> 00:17:50.279
It was it was it was Chris, yeah.

214
00:17:50.339 --> 00:17:57.599
Because I just love that idea that, of course, he's going, this is all about perception. which is a neat way of seeing this story.

215
00:17:57.660 --> 00:17:58.559
Yeah, absolutely.

216
00:17:58.619 --> 00:18:00.420
Yeah, yeah.

217
00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:06.359
I mean, it's not, you know, I think I think that once you sort of deal, do that.

218
00:18:06.420 --> 00:18:07.500
Do you know what I mean?

219
00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:14.099
Like, I think it's dealt with sort of fairly quickly and then it just ends up being, we're in peril because the planet's going to explode and Margas being mean.

220
00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:15.000
Do you know what I mean?

221
00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:17.339
How soon?

222
00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:24.960
It must be episode 2 that it's pretty clearly established that the rills are not the villains, the rills are the good guys.

223
00:18:25.019 --> 00:18:27.420
Yeah, it becomes a it becomes a race to get off.

224
00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:45.240
But as we were discussing, last time when we were looking at the Space Museum. and as you said, Nathan, a lot of Hartnell stories are sort of a conceptual 1st episode and then dealing with the fallout of that concept for the next 3 or 5 episodes.

225
00:18:45.299 --> 00:19:03.599
So, for instance, even the Keys of Mariners, which you're a big fan of, episodes 2 through six, all link back to that central concept in episode one of free will and law and the concept of society and how to relate to it.

226
00:19:03.660 --> 00:19:05.279
So we'd see different types of society.

227
00:19:05.339 --> 00:19:06.420
We see different types of people.

228
00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:12.059
So in this, we get that idea in the 1st episode of the doctor saying very early on.

229
00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:19.019
We only have these people's word that the rills are these evil, vile creatures, and Vicky says, yes, and I don't like.

230
00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:19.859
Well, I don't like them.

231
00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:20.940
I don't trust them at all.

232
00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:22.500
So how can we know if we trust them?

233
00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:27.480
And so the next 3 episodes are about proving that idea and then what do you do next?

234
00:19:27.539 --> 00:19:29.039
You know how can you help people?

235
00:19:29.099 --> 00:19:38.519
And even right up to the end of the story, the rills are willing to take the drive-ins with them. until the drive-ins go under the loud attack and the rules are just like, okay.

236
00:19:38.579 --> 00:19:39.299
Right?

237
00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:40.380
That's your choice.

238
00:19:40.500 --> 00:19:41.099
Bye bye now.

239
00:19:41.700 --> 00:19:44.940
Can I talk very quickly about the recons?

240
00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:46.019
Yes.

241
00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:49.440
There's there's no telly snaps for this.

242
00:19:49.500 --> 00:19:59.400
And for ages, it was thought that there was just one picture, one sort of crummy picture of the rills in existence, so we really didn't properly know what they look like. close for their face.

243
00:19:59.460 --> 00:20:07.559
And so the loose cannon people have had to go to extraordinary lengths to produce visuals for the story.

244
00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:13.799
And it includes, I think, one of them dressing up as a Dravan with a Dravan gun and having photos.

245
00:20:13.859 --> 00:20:15.059
They make their own Chumbly.

246
00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:17.400
They make their own TARDIS.

247
00:20:17.579 --> 00:20:18.599
It's really terrific.

248
00:20:18.660 --> 00:20:19.859
And there's these endless shots.

249
00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:29.940
You know how the drone women, like Margas 2nd and 3rd in command, you know, they're just sort of clones or something, and they eat leaves.

250
00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:35.279
Like, I don't know, marker gets to eat truffles and foie gras and something and they eat leaves.

251
00:20:35.339 --> 00:20:39.420
And so these endless shots of like bowls full of leaves.

252
00:20:39.420 --> 00:20:43.319
Just so that we have something to look at during the dialogue.

253
00:20:43.319 --> 00:20:45.720
And it really is just an absolutely heroic effort.

254
00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:56.460
And of course, the same team who made that made the condensed reconstruction that goes around the existing episode on the Aztec special edition DVD.

255
00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:07.380
So what you have is you have a 15 minute reconstruction of the other 3 episodes and the now found episode is dropped into the middle of that in its entirety.

256
00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:10.079
And it works pretty well.

257
00:21:10.140 --> 00:21:18.779
I will say they cut out some of my favourite lines, but I will actually talk more about that later, if that makes sense, in a later episode.

258
00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:20.400
Lots to say about this story.

259
00:21:20.460 --> 00:21:24.839
A lot of things began and ended with this story, as we'll see as the season progresses.

260
00:21:24.900 --> 00:21:26.099
This is true indeed.

261
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:30.660
But before we move on, I will mention the cake as has been referred to.

262
00:21:31.079 --> 00:21:38.279
See, I've wanted each time to make a cake that somehow relates to a story we're discussing.

263
00:21:38.339 --> 00:21:47.099
I was going to make butterfly cakes for the web planet that fell through and Rod made the larvae scrolls instead.

264
00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:48.299
So I was determined this time.

265
00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:56.640
So I've actually made a chocolate and butter tiered sponge Chumbly cake.

266
00:21:57.119 --> 00:21:59.160
It's a cake in the shape of a chumbly.

267
00:21:59.220 --> 00:22:02.460
Before we ate its head, I'd say it was about 10 inches tall.

268
00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:06.660
And there will be photos and a full recipe on the website.

269
00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:09.720
So you can make your own Chumbli cake at home.

270
00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:17.759
I was very Blue Peter and I actually have already planned what my season four, 5 and 6 baked goods are going to be.

271
00:22:17.819 --> 00:22:20.220
So stay tuned for that.

272
00:22:20.339 --> 00:22:24.480
Anything else to say on the...

273
00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:26.039
There's a lot to be...

274
00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:30.480
The other points of this story is you were just saying, will be developed later in the season.

275
00:22:30.539 --> 00:22:32.759
It's just the beginning of the trajectory.

276
00:22:32.819 --> 00:22:33.960
It really is, yeah.

277
00:22:34.019 --> 00:22:39.720
So let's let's continue on that trajectory to the final piece of Doctor Who produced by Verity Lambert.

278
00:22:39.779 --> 00:22:40.859
Mission to the unknown.

279
00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:50.460
So I'm hoping it's a space rocket with Batman controls.

280
00:22:51.660 --> 00:22:53.940
Yeah, not quite yet.

281
00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:57.000
Had Batman started on ITV?

282
00:22:57.059 --> 00:22:59.640
This is that's a interesting point.

283
00:22:59.700 --> 00:23:01.380
So, yeah, this is 1965.

284
00:23:01.559 --> 00:23:20.640
But we are starting to get to the point where ratings do become of concern, which I guess is what we were touching on earlier when the show starts looking at what's going on around it because some ITV had launched a game show. your lucky stars, your lucky stars on the other at the same time slot and it was really starting to pull in ratings.

285
00:23:20.700 --> 00:23:27.720
So just the 1st bit of reality TV comes and sniffs at us and starts to snarl.

286
00:23:27.779 --> 00:23:32.220
Yeah, it was starting to actually have something to counter it.

287
00:23:32.279 --> 00:23:34.680
So they were looking at ways to make it more popular.

288
00:23:34.740 --> 00:23:37.920
You know about ratings and things, Brandon?

289
00:23:37.980 --> 00:23:40.140
For this particular season?

290
00:23:40.140 --> 00:23:40.980
Well, after the season.

291
00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:53.759
Well, it started, generally speaking, it started strongly, and did peak around Dalek's Master Plan, which will be coming up, but started to drop off later on, but we should discuss that in later.

292
00:23:53.880 --> 00:23:57.779
So when it comes to the end, I mean, is this just going to be a crushing tale of defeat and mere cancellation?

293
00:23:58.140 --> 00:24:00.299
Well, we'll have to see.

294
00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:01.859
We'll have to see that.

295
00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:08.160
So we just had over 11000000 for Galaxy 4 and this one pulled in 8.3.

296
00:24:08.279 --> 00:24:12.000
Exactly. 60s, Britain must have been depressed.

297
00:24:12.599 --> 00:24:18.359
Oh, we've got, I think we've got one of the best, most interesting anti-Doctor Who stories so far made.

298
00:24:18.420 --> 00:24:19.619
This is the 1st one.

299
00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:20.339
Can we jump in?

300
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:21.779
This is the very 1st story.

301
00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:24.359
The most important thing for me is the bad guys win.

302
00:24:24.420 --> 00:24:25.440
Yes.

303
00:24:25.500 --> 00:24:33.660
Yeah, absolutely, because spoiler work, by the end, the 3 heroic characters introduced in the story are dead.

304
00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:35.220
They are.

305
00:24:35.279 --> 00:24:39.539
And the doctor and who's the doctor travelling with these days?

306
00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:40.859
The Dr. Stephen and Vicky?

307
00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:41.640
Don't turn up.

308
00:24:41.700 --> 00:24:43.859
No, he's credited, but he doesn't appear.

309
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:45.359
Is he credited?

310
00:24:45.420 --> 00:24:46.079
He's credited.

311
00:24:46.079 --> 00:24:46.259
Yeah.

312
00:24:46.259 --> 00:24:49.259
And and and like would the radio times have had them in it?

313
00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:49.920
Do you know what I mean?

314
00:24:49.980 --> 00:24:52.200
Like other people at home.

315
00:24:52.259 --> 00:24:55.680
No one at home knows that this is the Dr. Light episode.

316
00:24:55.740 --> 00:24:56.579
Do you know what I mean?

317
00:24:56.640 --> 00:25:01.740
Like everyone presumably is looking at the clock going, when's the doctor showing up?

318
00:25:01.799 --> 00:25:11.579
Yeah, so that would have been very shocking, especially with that ending. where the bad guys win and the tape that Mark Corey's recorded his message onto Warn Earth is just lying there in the mud.

319
00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:15.660
There's a little segue at the end of Galaxy 4.

320
00:25:15.900 --> 00:25:22.920
Vicky looks up at the scanner and says, I wonder what's happening on that planet and we cut to that planet and Barry Jackson gets up and says, I must kill.

321
00:25:22.980 --> 00:25:25.319
And, you know, I know how he feels.

322
00:25:25.380 --> 00:25:27.779
That then leads on from there.

323
00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:32.039
But I think it's such an interesting thing born out of necessity.

324
00:25:32.099 --> 00:25:39.000
For those of you who don't know, I mean, we've already mentioned this is some, uh, the 1st Doctor Who episode where the doctor doesn't appear.

325
00:25:39.059 --> 00:25:42.180
I don't even think the new series has done an episode without the doctor entirely.

326
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:46.200
The closest is probably turn left, where David Tennant's only in 2 sees.

327
00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:56.519
But in this one, it goes back to Planet of Giants, which, of course, was made as four-part story, but edited down to three.

328
00:25:56.579 --> 00:26:08.279
So Verity still owed the BBC one more episode of Doctor Who to fulfil the episode order, but the contracts for the regulars stipulated also how many episodes they could work on.

329
00:26:08.339 --> 00:26:13.319
Now, Billy had made That episode for the BBC already.

330
00:26:13.380 --> 00:26:22.619
So rather than have to draw up a new contract, and knowing they had that 12 part dialect story to come, Verity decided to give it a prologue to help set up the world and the Dalek scheme.

331
00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:25.980
So that's the sort of nuts and bolts of why it happened.

332
00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:30.420
But what's interesting is how well I feel.

333
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:39.299
It does work as a sort of 25 minute out of the unknown, outer limit style story onto its own right.

334
00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:44.220
I think I think it's really really enjoyable and it is that thing.

335
00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:54.960
I mean, where, because it's only 25 minutes, you can't get bored of it, but, and it's, it's sort of reasonably tense and, and that sort of thing and it is.

336
00:26:55.019 --> 00:26:58.079
I also think it's very much more what Terry Nation wants to do.

337
00:26:58.140 --> 00:27:09.900
I mean, you know, in uh, you know, in 1978, Blake 7 comes on the air and that sorts of posturing and people with guns and future people and ray guns and spaceships.

338
00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:11.039
It's space opera.

339
00:27:11.099 --> 00:27:12.240
And that's what this is.

340
00:27:12.299 --> 00:27:15.900
And this is where Terry Nation's most comfortable.

341
00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:19.140
And it's not really a great fit for Doctor Who.

342
00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:25.440
I have to say that the Doctor Who isn't sort of science fiction in the sense, or hitherto hasn't been that.

343
00:27:25.559 --> 00:27:28.259
Like we've been on a spaceship, I think, by now.

344
00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:32.579
But Doctor Who isn't about spaceships and ray guns, particularly.

345
00:27:33.420 --> 00:27:36.779
But that's what Terry Nation wants to write about.

346
00:27:36.839 --> 00:27:44.700
And so here I think he does it sort of quite confidently and it is that sort of pulpish thing that Richard is almost certainly going to talk to us about in a minute.

347
00:27:44.759 --> 00:27:52.740
That sort of, you know, the Dan Dare thing that you were showing me earlier on and you have the Dalek annual there.

348
00:27:52.740 --> 00:27:55.140
We must show Rod that picture, actually.

349
00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:58.980
But, you know, nipples, dearly.

350
00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:00.240
Let's just put it that way.

351
00:28:00.299 --> 00:28:02.279
There are nipples in the goal, okay?

352
00:28:03.059 --> 00:28:05.519
So this is like he's got six.

353
00:28:05.579 --> 00:28:09.180
This is what he, this is what nation wants to be writing.

354
00:28:09.420 --> 00:28:25.019
And the doctor's not in it, so you don't have that sort of weird, the weird situation where the hero in your space opera is a sort of doddering old man in sort of Edwardian clothes and things.

355
00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:29.400
And I'm not sure that really quite works when we get back to Darlic master plan.

356
00:28:29.460 --> 00:28:34.859
But here, because you don't have that, I think it just works terribly well as a sort of thrilling space adventure.

357
00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:39.839
It is a thrilling space adventure, but it's a thrilling space adventure with reference before the pulps.

358
00:28:39.900 --> 00:28:45.420
This is where, again, we're looking at how Doctor Who is now about what Doctor Who is out in the media.

359
00:28:45.539 --> 00:28:55.500
This is an acknowledgement of the TV21s and the Dalek comic strips and it pretty much, well, you've got a special agent with a license to kill.

360
00:28:55.559 --> 00:28:59.220
So we're also looking at what's popular in media and film at the time.

361
00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:04.319
You've got Mark Corey with his Edward DeSouza plays him, doesn't he?

362
00:29:04.380 --> 00:29:06.000
as a kind of matinee idol.

363
00:29:06.059 --> 00:29:09.480
You've also got from that accent. with that accent.

364
00:29:09.539 --> 00:29:11.940
There's lots of things about the external world in this one.

365
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:15.839
The thing that I really took away from it because we can't see it, but we can't be sure.

366
00:29:15.900 --> 00:29:27.000
But the notion of the Daleks in a dense jungle with flamethrowers is coming straight off the 630 news because we were seeing these things for the 1st time being used in Jungle War in Vietnam.

367
00:29:27.059 --> 00:29:40.440
So the image is straight off the violence that people are seeing in the media, as well as you've just thrown that into the mix of Whitaker's Dalek comic strip on the back of TV21.

368
00:29:40.619 --> 00:30:00.059
Some of the very same characters, special agents, and we're about to go into the whole other world that, um, nation was wanting to set another revenue razor for him, you know, for his own writing and get the Daleks to be produced in the US as their own TV show with their own other characters.

369
00:30:00.180 --> 00:30:12.480
This is why we're not going to have Daleks, you know, after the 2 tracks, ones will be like 5 blokes. in silver wetsuits. motorcycle helmets on the motorcycle handlebars on their heads, I should say.

370
00:30:12.539 --> 00:30:14.880
Oh, I didn't know you saw me last night.

371
00:30:14.940 --> 00:30:23.279
But this is nations, no, yeah, nation spinoff was called the Destructors, and it's full of Coreys and Garveys, and an I Android called Seven.

372
00:30:23.339 --> 00:30:26.099
Or Mark 7, yeah, in this ones.

373
00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:37.559
But in the TV21 comic, there's Special Agent 2K, who is one of the greatest Doctor Who spinoffs of all time. his head opened up and he turned into a helicopter, amongst other things.

374
00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:40.920
Suck that up, Astro boy.

375
00:30:40.980 --> 00:30:42.900
We have even better in Doctor Who.

376
00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:51.240
Yeah, all of that is going on in the Dalek strips at this time and the kids who would be watching us would absolutely be referencing what they're looking at in TV 21.

377
00:30:51.420 --> 00:30:59.640
I can't imagine that an American TV show starring the Daleks would be anything other than just absolutely horrendously awful.

378
00:30:59.700 --> 00:31:05.220
Well, Big Finish have recorded the script for the Destroyers.

379
00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:06.900
Instructors.

380
00:31:07.019 --> 00:31:16.259
Oh, they got a dictionary, though, and decided... the destroyer is actually... the space security.

381
00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:20.700
The Space Security Service, the SSS with the heroes.

382
00:31:20.759 --> 00:31:22.980
Yeah, yeah, as well.

383
00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:24.960
Nation, what you're trying to tell us here.

384
00:31:25.019 --> 00:31:29.940
But the funny thing is, the destroyers or destructors, whichever you like.

385
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:33.900
It had a very, at least the way Big Finish produced it.

386
00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:34.980
Hello, Su Tech.

387
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:50.940
It had a very sort of ITC adventure series feel, and in actual fact, a lot of the set pieces from the script are recycled in an episode of the Avengers called Invasion of the Earth now.

388
00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:51.960
So it was.

389
00:31:52.019 --> 00:32:07.019
There's a train, there's a training ground for astronauts that has the same kind of perils that Sarah Kingdom and Mark 7 face in the jungle as they're trying to rescue Sarah's brother.

390
00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:12.720
This is not the same Sarah Kingdom as in Dalek Masterplan.

391
00:32:12.779 --> 00:32:14.220
It is a slightly retold character.

392
00:32:14.279 --> 00:32:16.920
Her family history is different and she's written differently as well.

393
00:32:16.980 --> 00:32:19.319
That's just very nation in drag, though, isn't it?

394
00:32:19.380 --> 00:32:23.099
This has been pointed out, Sarah, Terry, Nation, Kingdom.

395
00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:23.700
Do you know what I mean?

396
00:32:23.759 --> 00:32:24.480
like Sarah Kingdom.

397
00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:28.500
It's like Tarrant. everyone's called Tarrant in the Terry verse.

398
00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:32.759
Yeah, so I...

399
00:32:32.759 --> 00:32:34.980
I'm a soap opera that isn't very nation Street.

400
00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:38.160
I, I, I, I do kind of love terriation in a way.

401
00:32:38.220 --> 00:32:39.059
Sorry.

402
00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:40.559
Terry Nation Street.

403
00:32:40.619 --> 00:32:52.980
I love Terry Nation for his whole kind of Stephen King attitude to writing because Stephen King is famously someone who, when he stuck for an idea, He'll just look around and the 1st thing he sees, right, that's that's his monster.

404
00:32:52.980 --> 00:33:00.779
As I think it's Family Guy joke towards, you know, Stephen King looking around his agent's office for an idea and saying, I'm writing a scary story about a possessed lamp.

405
00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:03.779
And that's the kind of thing Terry does, you know.

406
00:33:03.839 --> 00:33:09.779
He looks out into his garden and sees a funny looking plant and right, I'm going to have the Varga plants.

407
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:12.000
You know that...

408
00:33:12.599 --> 00:33:16.859
No one said that is exactly what happened, but it's probably...

409
00:33:16.920 --> 00:33:17.759
I think of the visions.

410
00:33:17.819 --> 00:33:20.039
He looked out of his window and did, like, see anything.

411
00:33:21.059 --> 00:33:22.980
Invisible things.

412
00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:24.240
They're cheap to realise.

413
00:33:24.420 --> 00:33:26.880
Anyway, we're getting ahead of ourselves.

414
00:33:26.940 --> 00:33:27.539
Yes we are.

415
00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:29.460
Well, on the planet in the era for a good reason.

416
00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:38.339
It is impossible to talk about mission to the unknown in isolation because, of course, it is the prelude to the Dalek's master plan.

417
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:40.500
But coming back to...

418
00:33:40.619 --> 00:33:46.079
We do have about 6 hours, though, don't we set aside to talk about?

419
00:33:46.140 --> 00:33:49.500
So I think you're right, we should get back to Mission to the Unknown.

420
00:33:49.559 --> 00:34:04.740
What I, and what I've seen of Mission to the Unknown, and I can't really comment as to how I got it, but I have seen the Ian Levine commissioned animation of Mission to the Owners. think it's on YouTube. you can just see it on YouTube.

421
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:05.880
Yeah.

422
00:34:05.940 --> 00:34:08.280
Well, it's some, and you know, it's very good.

423
00:34:08.340 --> 00:34:19.079
And again, it's taking its skews, as you were saying, Richard, from animation design in the 60s, and particularly the 70s, it looks like those 60s, 70s filmation series.

424
00:34:19.139 --> 00:34:25.079
It looks like it looks like Ghostbusters, the series from before the Ghostbusters films.

425
00:34:25.139 --> 00:34:26.760
It looks like Scooby-Doo.

426
00:34:26.820 --> 00:34:28.619
And it's animated very faithfully.

427
00:34:28.679 --> 00:34:34.440
I am very surprised because it was offered to 2 entertained to release in some fashion and they turned it down.

428
00:34:34.500 --> 00:34:38.219
I think it's a wonderful piece of work and I do recommend anyone.

429
00:34:38.219 --> 00:34:39.780
No, we can.

430
00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:40.679
You can find it.

431
00:34:40.739 --> 00:34:49.500
But I actually, I actually like the um, the recon just because the, seeing the shots of the, the, the spaceship set, you know, in the jungle and stuff.

432
00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:56.099
I, you know, this is another one where I've listened to it a lot on audio, um, I really like it in Dalek Masterplan.

433
00:34:56.159 --> 00:34:58.380
I think it's just phenomenally entertaining.

434
00:34:58.440 --> 00:35:02.699
But this time for the 1st time seeing those sets and things.

435
00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:04.380
I think it looks spectacular.

436
00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:06.360
The jungle looks great, you know.

437
00:35:06.420 --> 00:35:17.340
So watching the, um, uh, the animation, you know, would be fun, but I was surprised by how, how, how accessible the uh, the recon was.

438
00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:19.139
Yeah, yeah, it's very good.

439
00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:25.619
And also the benefit of loose kind of reconstruction is they do get together the 3 main human actors.

440
00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:32.760
Edward DeSouza, who was Mark Corey, Barry Jackson, who was Jeff Garvey, and Jeremy Young, who was Gordon Lowry.

441
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:39.900
And they actually have really vivid memories of working on the story and it's quite interesting to listen to those.

442
00:35:41.159 --> 00:35:44.579
There's like an interview that they've done with them.

443
00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:45.179
Yeah.

444
00:35:45.239 --> 00:35:46.619
The 3 of them together?

445
00:35:46.679 --> 00:35:48.239
Did they get David Graham as well?

446
00:35:48.300 --> 00:35:49.739
The voice of Parker from Thunder?

447
00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:51.000
Did they get...

448
00:35:51.059 --> 00:35:51.719
He was a darling.

449
00:35:51.719 --> 00:35:52.980
Did they get Malpha back?

450
00:35:53.039 --> 00:35:53.940
They didn't?

451
00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:55.559
Is Malpha is in this, isn't he?

452
00:35:55.619 --> 00:35:59.760
Yeah, but I believe he's no, I believe Robert Carl Lund is no longer with us.

453
00:35:59.820 --> 00:36:02.219
I could be wrong, but I believe that would be the case.

454
00:36:02.820 --> 00:36:06.840
I hope he's not a listener then, you know, that'd be a shock.

455
00:36:06.900 --> 00:36:10.559
Robert Cartland, if you're out there and listening, please let us know you're all right.

456
00:36:11.880 --> 00:36:17.340
Just before we move on, there is also the controversy around the story as to what is it called?

457
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:18.960
Well, it's called Dalek Caraway.

458
00:36:19.019 --> 00:36:20.280
Yeah.

459
00:36:20.280 --> 00:36:31.860
Because there's the theory that, um, yeah, it's Mission to the Unknown is the episode title of the story Dalek Cutaway because it is officially referred to as Dalek Cutaway on BBC.

460
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:36.900
Production notes, but taking that, of course, it does have an alternate title on BBC production notes as well.

461
00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:38.639
What's the alternate title?

462
00:36:39.119 --> 00:36:42.000
Dear verity, so sorry to hear you're moving on.

463
00:36:42.059 --> 00:36:43.440
Here's that extra thing with Doug.

464
00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:45.840
We call it that.

465
00:36:45.900 --> 00:36:47.880
I think we can.

466
00:36:58.440 --> 00:37:01.260
Right, so Verity Lambert's gone.

467
00:37:01.320 --> 00:37:07.260
John Wildes, the new producer, is now fully entrenched and in charge.

468
00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:11.340
However, we still have a few stories which verity commissioned before she left.

469
00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:14.940
So there's a bit of a hand over here, and the 1st of those stories is Nathan.

470
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:16.500
Yes, it's the myth makers.

471
00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:20.519
So it's another historical for me, which I'm you know, hugely thrilled about, obviously.

472
00:37:20.579 --> 00:37:25.019
But I have to say that this is another one that I think works very well.

473
00:37:25.019 --> 00:37:30.480
And I think it works for the same reason that the Romans works in that.

474
00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:37.199
Yeah, I really want to use the word tropes, but I'm all self-conscious about it now.

475
00:37:37.500 --> 00:37:39.119
What the hell?

476
00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:40.320
No, no.

477
00:37:40.380 --> 00:37:47.519
It uses stories that are known to people in the audience.

478
00:37:47.579 --> 00:38:05.340
And again, uh, things like the Iliad and the Aeneid are perhaps not quite so widely known as they once were, but they were quite well known to, you know, have plenty of the audience members in the, uh, uh, in the 19th.

479
00:38:05.699 --> 00:38:06.179
Yeah.

480
00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:16.380
And so you have all of these sort of very familiar characters, and then you drop the doctor, and to a lesser degree, Stephen and Vicki, in that story.

481
00:38:16.440 --> 00:38:21.719
And with the added sort of idea that it's the myth makers, you know?

482
00:38:21.780 --> 00:38:35.579
So we're kind of admitting that we're being historically ropey, you know, we have a historical Achilles and an Odysseus and a Hector, and these are all sort of real people in this version of things.

483
00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:44.400
And so we get to play with the idea that the doctor knows what the myth is and how it plays out, just as the sort of members of the audience do.

484
00:38:44.460 --> 00:38:49.320
And then also you get, you know, all of these epic characters.

485
00:38:49.380 --> 00:38:55.739
I mean, you know, the Iliad, you know, is one of the earliest stories of Western literature that we have.

486
00:38:56.699 --> 00:39:01.380
And, you know, it's hugely spectacular and terrific.

487
00:39:01.500 --> 00:39:08.519
And so the story gets to undermine these old characters and to have fun with them.

488
00:39:08.579 --> 00:39:18.059
And so, right from the, right from the get go, Richard's just handed, handed me Robert Fagel's translation of the Elliad, which is absolutely beautiful.

489
00:39:18.119 --> 00:39:19.079
It really is great.

490
00:39:19.139 --> 00:39:21.659
The pages stick together at almost every chapter.

491
00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:23.460
Well, it is wonderful.

492
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:24.719
It is just wonderful.

493
00:39:24.780 --> 00:39:27.300
Yeah, that could be my pick of the week.

494
00:39:27.420 --> 00:39:32.579
But of course, the Mythmakers actually starts with Iliad finishes.

495
00:39:32.579 --> 00:39:51.420
So the big climactic battle between Achilles and Hector takes place in book 22, of the Iliad right towards the end, and the stuff that we get, the Trojan whore stuff is basically from Aeneid book 2 and the Troitos and Cressida stuff is from the Middle Ages. really.

496
00:39:51.480 --> 00:39:54.719
It's, you know, all sort of a lot later.

497
00:39:54.780 --> 00:40:02.400
But it's all things that are familiar to the people at home and there's a wonderful way in which she subverts all those characters.

498
00:40:02.460 --> 00:40:05.400
So just Menelaus is spectacular.

499
00:40:05.460 --> 00:40:12.000
He's a drunk, you know, and he's bored with the war and he's kind of quite keen to be shot of hell and he doesn't mind that she's gone.

500
00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:14.639
She's not done it before.

501
00:40:14.820 --> 00:40:29.280
This is one of the, and then you've got Cassandra, who in this is fine, is the villain rather than Homer's, where she is the high priestess and prophetess and really the voice of the, the super narrative, the book that looking onto the narrative.

502
00:40:29.340 --> 00:40:31.139
She's the darkest thing in it.

503
00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:33.360
But the thing that you remember about Cassandra too.

504
00:40:33.420 --> 00:40:35.099
And you read this elsewhere.

505
00:40:35.159 --> 00:40:41.159
I've just been reading one of Ovid's love allergies that mentions Cassandra.

506
00:40:41.159 --> 00:40:52.079
And the thing that, the thing that you remember about her is that she's dragged out of the temple, you know, when Troy is finally sacked, she sort of dragged out by the hair by a middle land, sort of thinking.

507
00:40:52.980 --> 00:40:53.940
Yeah, we read that...

508
00:40:54.059 --> 00:40:56.219
It's a comedy for like the 1st 3.5 episodes.

509
00:40:56.280 --> 00:40:58.019
And everyone is brutally murdered.

510
00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:07.800
This is what I've been talking about earlier when I was alluding to how this season plays with camp tropes and throws and throws narrative sideways.

511
00:41:07.860 --> 00:41:10.920
Camp nose doesn't always mean queer and silly and funny.

512
00:41:10.980 --> 00:41:13.199
It also means turning things on its head.

513
00:41:13.260 --> 00:41:17.099
So, yeah, the roles are all reversed and we go from three.

514
00:41:17.159 --> 00:41:21.000
I think this is one of my all-time top 5 favourite Doctor Who stories.

515
00:41:21.059 --> 00:41:24.059
It is intensely jealous when the randomiser.

516
00:41:24.119 --> 00:41:26.159
Interestingly gave it to its creator.

517
00:41:26.280 --> 00:41:29.099
Nothing else to say. right now.

518
00:41:29.159 --> 00:41:31.619
I just, I really love this story.

519
00:41:31.679 --> 00:41:33.000
I only knew it in audio.

520
00:41:33.059 --> 00:41:38.159
I read the target book that Donald Cotton penned and came out about 15 years ago.

521
00:41:38.219 --> 00:41:43.559
It's really expensive to get on, um, to get on eBay if you can hunt it down.

522
00:41:43.739 --> 00:41:45.360
The audiobook is available.

523
00:41:45.420 --> 00:41:46.739
Read by Stephen Thorn.

524
00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:49.800
So the actual novel. you've listened to that, haven't you?

525
00:41:49.860 --> 00:41:55.320
Yes, so have I. And I haven't because I just, you know, I prefer to read them or listen to the audio.

526
00:41:55.380 --> 00:42:02.099
But it's a really nicely written just as his copy of the Romans, if we didn't mention it last time, is really worth reading.

527
00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:06.360
You know, I actually haven't listened to it, but it is narrated by Homer, isn't it?

528
00:42:06.420 --> 00:42:08.099
Is that the is that the conceit?

529
00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:10.980
Yeah, it's look, it's just great.

530
00:42:11.039 --> 00:42:13.019
Even if you're not a fan of this story.

531
00:42:13.079 --> 00:42:19.500
I would start with Stephen, as you say, Stephen Thorne's narration of that, if you can. shout all the way through the movie.

532
00:42:19.559 --> 00:42:20.820
No, he's got beautiful balance.

533
00:42:20.880 --> 00:42:23.820
Should we mention whom Stephen Thorne has played?

534
00:42:23.880 --> 00:42:27.300
So he's in the series of Doctor Who, if no one knows who he is.

535
00:42:27.360 --> 00:42:28.199
He's a Zaar.

536
00:42:28.260 --> 00:42:29.940
He's a...

537
00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:30.780
He's an Ogron.

538
00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:32.039
Yeah, he's a what?

539
00:42:32.099 --> 00:42:32.880
He's an Ogron.

540
00:42:32.940 --> 00:42:33.420
Is he?

541
00:42:33.480 --> 00:42:34.019
Yes, he is.

542
00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:37.199
He's everything behind a plaquey mask with his leg.

543
00:42:37.260 --> 00:42:40.679
Big finish upbringing back his omega as well.

544
00:42:40.739 --> 00:42:41.940
Ah, good.

545
00:42:41.940 --> 00:42:49.079
They've had they've had Ian Collier. as Omega, of course. about 10 years ago. and now they're bringing back the Stephen Thorne version too.

546
00:42:49.139 --> 00:42:50.400
Well, who wouldn't?

547
00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:54.360
Because, you know, I think he's 19 out and still going strong.

548
00:42:54.420 --> 00:42:55.440
He's like William Russell.

549
00:42:55.500 --> 00:42:56.340
Yes.

550
00:42:56.340 --> 00:42:57.179
Fabulous.

551
00:42:57.780 --> 00:42:59.639
I love this story.

552
00:42:59.699 --> 00:43:00.300
I really do.

553
00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:01.440
That's not a Sutic.

554
00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:06.840
That thing with the Trojan horse, the fun, like, interaction of narrative and history and things.

555
00:43:06.900 --> 00:43:12.780
So, you know, the doctor's not going to build the Trojan. like the doctor has to get some, get them.

556
00:43:12.840 --> 00:43:32.579
He's being threatened by Odysseus and he has to get them over the walls and like he toys with the idea of the horse, but he says, no, no, Homer made that up. that's ridiculous So instead, his idea is to get a big catapult and use it to fire a paper airplane with a soldier sitting in it over the wall.

557
00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:38.099
And that's all really good until Odysseus says yes, but you're going to the one who tests it out.

558
00:43:38.219 --> 00:43:43.019
And so he goes, yes, no, well, maybe I won't do that, then we'll do the horse thing after all.

559
00:43:43.079 --> 00:43:51.420
Yeah, it's it's the giant, it's the giant wooden rabbit scene from Monty Python's Holy Grail. 15 years before it happened.

560
00:43:51.480 --> 00:44:04.980
You know, because it's hard to tell without the visuals, because it's an entirely missing story, except for a few snippets that were taken off the TV screen with someone's 8 millimetre camera.

561
00:44:05.039 --> 00:44:15.000
It's entirely impossible to tell if the doctor's joking or not when you're suggesting the paper plain idea, but you are led to believe that when it suggested that he could do that.

562
00:44:15.059 --> 00:44:17.400
He says, okay, I'll build your horse.

563
00:44:17.579 --> 00:44:19.440
It is really funny.

564
00:44:19.500 --> 00:44:22.500
And the interaction with him and Odysseus is hilarious.

565
00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:23.699
Like Odysseus is funny.

566
00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:24.780
Everyone's great.

567
00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:25.860
Odysseus is funny.

568
00:44:25.920 --> 00:44:28.260
Paris is screamingly funny.

569
00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:36.119
Like he's just terribly posh and, you know, not very interested in fighting, inept, easily fooled and all of that sort of thing.

570
00:44:36.179 --> 00:44:47.159
It's a sitcom set up with a with a family sitcom with Max Adrian as far as Brian's father and then Cassandra and Paris as the squabbling siblings.

571
00:44:47.219 --> 00:44:52.199
And then, of course, Vicky appears amongst them as, what is she?

572
00:44:52.260 --> 00:44:56.880
She's they immediately conflated with a narrative, then she becomes Cressida.

573
00:44:56.940 --> 00:45:01.679
Which ought to have tipped her off, but you said before, and history's not as strong.

574
00:45:01.739 --> 00:45:02.280
Yes, right.

575
00:45:02.340 --> 00:45:04.199
But I mean, you should have got a bit nervous when they called it out.

576
00:45:04.260 --> 00:45:07.079
Precedent isn't really a thing until the Middle Ages anyway.

577
00:45:07.139 --> 00:45:07.920
No, that's right.

578
00:45:07.980 --> 00:45:09.179
She not actually in home, actually.

579
00:45:09.239 --> 00:45:11.820
He does have a character called Crisis.

580
00:45:12.420 --> 00:45:14.400
No, well, even that's not really a name.

581
00:45:14.460 --> 00:45:16.619
As in Norme, is that?

582
00:45:16.619 --> 00:45:18.780
She's called the No, no, a crisis.

583
00:45:18.840 --> 00:45:29.699
But, but the point, I mean, the idea is that she's just completely invented for the sake of a, like, it becomes a thing in the Middle Ages and in the Renaissance to tell the story of Troy and Cressida.

584
00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:31.260
Yeah, that's right.

585
00:45:31.320 --> 00:45:39.480
But the thing that, I mean, the thing that strikes me, you know, the way that we talk about it is it's 3 episodes of comedy and then brutal murder at the end.

586
00:45:39.539 --> 00:45:44.099
But like everyone watching knows that there's brutal murder coming, surely.

587
00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:45.239
Do you know what I mean?

588
00:45:45.300 --> 00:45:50.400
Like, you know that you know that Prime's going to be killed, you know, that Cassandra's going to be dragged out by a hair.

589
00:45:50.460 --> 00:45:51.780
You know that Paris is going to be killed.

590
00:45:51.840 --> 00:46:06.840
And then the strange choice of having Troilus, who, in the classical version of the story, the thing he's most famous for is being killed, like Troilus isn't in the Iliad, he gets mentioned by Priam and Priam says, you know, it's such a shame that he's dead.

591
00:46:06.900 --> 00:46:10.019
And so Troyos is sort of famous for being dead.

592
00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:17.460
Achilles kills him and in some stories, he beheads him in front of the altar after Troilus rebuffs his sexual advances.

593
00:46:17.579 --> 00:46:19.800
Yes, well, there is that.

594
00:46:19.860 --> 00:46:21.179
That's not in this.

595
00:46:21.239 --> 00:46:26.519
Well, it's certainly in the portrayal of Troilus. as you see, Troy is here in the audio.

596
00:46:26.579 --> 00:46:28.139
Well, yeah, he's famously pretty.

597
00:46:28.199 --> 00:46:31.619
But the Troilith and Cressetor relationship is doomed.

598
00:46:31.739 --> 00:46:33.480
Do you know what I mean?

599
00:46:33.539 --> 00:46:35.579
Yeah, so it's doomed.

600
00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:37.739
And the fact that at the end of it, they do go off together.

601
00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:54.780
Like in the, in the, in the Shakespeare play, like she ends up going back to the Greeks and she falls in love with Diomede, which is the name that Steven's actually using, or she flirts with him or something and Troilus gets really annoyed and he goes out to kill him some Greeks and gets killed.

602
00:46:54.840 --> 00:47:01.860
Well, Troilus does initially think that Vicky is with Stephen in that way and does get a bit jealous.

603
00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:05.760
I'm talking, he's like, oh, no, God, that's my brother, you know. words to that effect.

604
00:47:05.820 --> 00:47:11.519
So like it is sort of strange that like we kind of led to think that that might be doomed.

605
00:47:11.579 --> 00:47:18.659
But because we've already had this idea that the myth and the history, like the story isn't isn't the same as what's happening here.

606
00:47:18.719 --> 00:47:19.739
Do you know what I mean?

607
00:47:19.800 --> 00:47:24.539
Like maybe there will be a horse, maybe there'll be a giant catapult firing, you know, people over the wall.

608
00:47:24.599 --> 00:47:32.159
So there's a secret history, in a sense, of Troilus and Cressida that never makes its way into Shakespeare and never makes its way into Chaucer.

609
00:47:32.159 --> 00:47:39.780
And that secret history has, has Troilus and Cressida heading out to help Aeneas found Rome.

610
00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:42.599
So, so they escape the slaughter.

611
00:47:42.599 --> 00:47:52.920
And, you know, even though Troilus is famous in Greek mythology for nothing more than being killed, he actually avoids that fate and goes off with Vicky.

612
00:47:52.980 --> 00:47:54.360
Donald Cotton.

613
00:47:54.420 --> 00:48:04.920
Sorry, Donald Cotton's target novel has an epilogue with Vicky and Troilus being happily middle-aged and middle-aged.

614
00:48:04.980 --> 00:48:06.659
Yeah, it's a nice Are they living in Rome?

615
00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:07.860
No, not Rome.

616
00:48:07.920 --> 00:48:08.460
Lavinium.

617
00:48:08.519 --> 00:48:10.980
Oh, look, it's been a while since I've read it.

618
00:48:11.039 --> 00:48:12.059
But the...

619
00:48:12.119 --> 00:48:13.380
Okay, that's nice though.

620
00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:18.659
There's a big Finnish companion chronicle that follows on from that as well. an older Vicky.

621
00:48:18.719 --> 00:48:20.579
It's one of the very early ones.

622
00:48:20.639 --> 00:48:21.599
It's called Frostfire.

623
00:48:21.659 --> 00:48:24.360
It's written by Mark Platt, so it's beautiful.

624
00:48:24.420 --> 00:48:27.059
I can't say too much without spoiling the plot.

625
00:48:27.119 --> 00:48:29.159
But Vicky has...

626
00:48:29.159 --> 00:48:30.659
A little Chumbly...

627
00:48:30.780 --> 00:48:32.280
Vicky has a prisoner.

628
00:48:32.340 --> 00:48:34.380
Oh, she calls him Zombo.

629
00:48:35.219 --> 00:48:42.300
To whom she tells a story and the story relates who the prisoner is, but the framing material.

630
00:48:42.360 --> 00:48:47.460
She and Troilus are safe and she is living as Cressida and they're very, very happy, et cetera, et cetera.

631
00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:48.300
That's lovely.

632
00:48:48.300 --> 00:48:56.699
And I just say buggery needed to be seen because is this another point where we just get rid of the Yunker companion in the most arseway.

633
00:48:56.760 --> 00:48:57.539
It's terrible.

634
00:48:57.659 --> 00:48:58.980
Really awful.

635
00:48:59.039 --> 00:49:00.719
I think there are some good things about it.

636
00:49:00.840 --> 00:49:05.340
I do like the fact that we don't see it again.

637
00:49:05.400 --> 00:49:06.000
Do you know what I mean?

638
00:49:06.059 --> 00:49:07.800
That the doctor's quite upset by it.

639
00:49:07.860 --> 00:49:11.039
We don't see their final scene. another one going Titanas.

640
00:49:11.099 --> 00:49:23.460
And according to the, according to the recon, when Vicky comes, Vicky sort of bustles the doctor into the Tartar, something else happens and then Vicky steps out of the TARDIS, hugs it.

641
00:49:23.519 --> 00:49:31.500
She hugged she walks around the side of the ship and throws her arms around it and presses herself against it and walks off and the doctor sort of pokes his head out and watches her go.

642
00:49:31.559 --> 00:49:36.900
And then it takes off and with Stephen still expects her to be there.

643
00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:42.900
Yeah, yeah, Stephen's unconscious and got blood poisoning from the sword.

644
00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:52.079
But you see, I said this last time, and I'll say it again, unlike Susan's departure, this feels more appropriate because it's Vicky's choice.

645
00:49:52.139 --> 00:49:55.440
It just seems like a choice that she would never make. though.

646
00:49:55.500 --> 00:49:58.380
Like, because she's, you know, this modern future girl.

647
00:49:58.440 --> 00:50:01.139
Like, why does she want to go and live among the kind of...

648
00:50:01.260 --> 00:50:01.440
Yeah.

649
00:50:01.500 --> 00:50:03.059
Yeah, doesn't she remember?

650
00:50:03.119 --> 00:50:05.099
Let's touch again on dental hygiene.

651
00:50:05.159 --> 00:50:06.599
That's right.

652
00:50:06.599 --> 00:50:07.619
And to some hilarious.

653
00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:13.380
Well, there's a lot of things we, come on, would you really take for granted, modern medicine?

654
00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:13.920
Yeah, yeah.

655
00:50:13.980 --> 00:50:29.820
I mean, that seems, that does, that seems strange and it does seem like, it's like Mel going off with Sabalong glitz for no reason or, you know, like it is just one of those things where, uh, well, this is her last story, but we're in ancient, uh, you know, Troy, what are we going to do?

656
00:50:29.880 --> 00:50:30.960
We'll marry her off.

657
00:50:31.079 --> 00:50:36.659
And they try and give her a hopeful ending at which all the big finish things have been hung upon.

658
00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:38.820
But it is a little bit crummy.

659
00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:40.019
So ad hoc and quick.

660
00:50:40.079 --> 00:50:41.639
Well we know the real reason, don't we?

661
00:50:41.699 --> 00:50:45.179
Yeah, it's and it's so the real reason is so bizarre.

662
00:50:45.239 --> 00:50:48.059
And both sides tell the exact same story.

663
00:50:48.119 --> 00:50:54.780
Her contract ended at the end of the Mythmakers, which was the 1st story in production for this block.

664
00:50:54.840 --> 00:50:56.940
So they'd had a 2 or 4 week breaker, whatever.

665
00:50:57.179 --> 00:51:03.119
Donald Tosh and John Wiles had been trailing for a few months.

666
00:51:03.179 --> 00:51:12.239
Donald Tosh had been there longer and Maureen O'Brien was saying to the production team, look, I don't think the part is stretching my talents enough.

667
00:51:12.300 --> 00:51:13.980
My end of my contract's coming up.

668
00:51:14.039 --> 00:51:19.800
I'm probably going to look for more work and that was her that was her final word on the matter before she went on holiday.

669
00:51:19.860 --> 00:51:26.400
So when John Miles and Donald Tosh were working on their plan going forward.

670
00:51:26.460 --> 00:51:29.099
They sort of said, oh, well, do we still have Maureen?

671
00:51:29.099 --> 00:51:35.099
And it's actually Donald Tosher said in interviews, he said to John Welles, oh, no, no, she's not happy.

672
00:51:35.159 --> 00:51:37.860
She doesn't want to be renewed for a contract, slightly da- da.

673
00:51:37.920 --> 00:51:44.400
And then when she came back and got the script, she called up the production office and Donald, you know, I've been written out.

674
00:51:44.460 --> 00:51:47.099
We hadn't, we hadn't discussed, we hadn't decided.

675
00:51:47.159 --> 00:51:57.480
So, you know, she wasn't exactly pushed out because as far as the production team knew, she wasn't happy, but at the same time, she's kind of like, if I knew I was definitely going.

676
00:51:57.539 --> 00:51:59.699
I wouldn't have gone off for a 4 week holiday.

677
00:51:59.760 --> 00:52:02.519
I would have gone off for a week's holiday and looked for work for 3 weeks.

678
00:52:02.579 --> 00:52:05.820
But what I find really funny about it is.

679
00:52:05.940 --> 00:52:14.579
Maureen O'Brien has actually, up to this point, had a really strong run of stories for Vicki.

680
00:52:14.639 --> 00:52:18.000
She's a very strong character in Galaxy 4.

681
00:52:18.239 --> 00:52:20.460
She's a very strong character in the time meddler.

682
00:52:20.519 --> 00:52:21.719
She's very strong in the chase.

683
00:52:21.780 --> 00:52:23.219
She's very strong in the space museum.

684
00:52:23.820 --> 00:52:27.300
And her character had just been getting stronger and stronger.

685
00:52:27.360 --> 00:52:34.320
So I do find it odd that she wasn't, for instance, as strong as Barbara, but she was starting.

686
00:52:34.739 --> 00:52:45.420
Oh, who was, but you know, she got the Ian part in Galaxy 4, you know, she got the part of actually going to the alien spaceship to look for help and, you know, she does, of course, get trapped in things.

687
00:52:45.480 --> 00:52:54.239
But it's just so odd because she was far stronger written as a character than Susan, but still wasn't satisfied with them.

688
00:52:54.300 --> 00:52:57.659
She was strongly written for, but the lines were not.

689
00:52:57.719 --> 00:53:02.340
You know, the other sources, right on the production, have been far more explicit as to what really happened.

690
00:53:02.340 --> 00:53:03.659
No, do you want it?

691
00:53:03.719 --> 00:53:10.619
No, I just wanted to say that I didn't think being superb and truly fabulous was likely to stretch Maureen O'Brien as an actress at all.

692
00:53:10.679 --> 00:53:14.340
She's just awesome, you know, but she's still not enough.

693
00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:15.599
Hugely skilled.

694
00:53:15.659 --> 00:53:20.760
It's a good writer. a really good writer on her own bench if you look at the novels that she's written.

695
00:53:20.820 --> 00:53:21.780
She writes crime fiction?

696
00:53:21.840 --> 00:53:22.380
Yeah, yeah.

697
00:53:22.440 --> 00:53:23.460
And she does really well at it.

698
00:53:23.519 --> 00:53:26.219
No, other sources have said, I won't bother naming them.

699
00:53:26.280 --> 00:53:28.559
You can look them up if you want to go there, is that she was fired.

700
00:53:28.619 --> 00:53:47.940
And she was fired by John Wiles, which is pretty extraordinary when you look at the 1st act of a new producer replacing the youngest and 1st woman producer at her level on the BBC, is to sack the young juvenile, the juvenile female lead for being, in quotation marks, to upper tea.

701
00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:52.559
She and Billy were both, um, a legend hazard, um, and it's recorded.

702
00:53:52.619 --> 00:54:02.760
It's not just fan hearsay, complaining about the lines in Galaxy 4. scripts like a lot of scripts go at this time were going through many different variations before it got to the screen.

703
00:54:02.820 --> 00:54:03.719
A lot of rewrites.

704
00:54:03.780 --> 00:54:06.480
Tosh had to do a lot of rewriting on pretty much everything he got.

705
00:54:06.539 --> 00:54:11.340
It's the same thing that Russell and Davis and Moffatt have been saying.

706
00:54:11.400 --> 00:54:13.559
I guess that's just the process of a show like this.

707
00:54:13.619 --> 00:54:14.820
A lot of writing goes on.

708
00:54:14.880 --> 00:54:31.739
But the actual dialogue was taking 2nd or 3rd point to the plot and Billy was becoming increasingly, um, some say erratic, I think he was just getting more caring or more nervous about how his character was being treated and starting to notice that perhaps he's being being given less to do.

709
00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:33.719
So he was very vocal about that.

710
00:54:33.780 --> 00:54:35.880
But Maureen was backing up.

711
00:54:35.880 --> 00:54:40.440
So we hear backing up Billy and then also saying, no, these lines are absolute rubbish.

712
00:54:40.500 --> 00:54:42.900
John Miles said, well, I don't want any conjecture.

713
00:54:42.960 --> 00:54:44.460
I don't want any disagreement from the floor.

714
00:54:44.519 --> 00:54:45.300
She's out.

715
00:54:45.360 --> 00:55:00.300
Because she is like there, she tells the stories, like on DVD extras and stuff about like her role, sometimes to sort of calm Bill down and make it, yeah, like make it possible for him to go on when he was in a sort of crummy mood.

716
00:55:00.360 --> 00:55:08.760
And so like you have this, I mean, season 3 is the story of Hartnell being eased out.

717
00:55:08.820 --> 00:55:14.039
And, you know, in an adventures in an adventure in space and time, is that the right order?

718
00:55:14.159 --> 00:55:14.760
Yes.

719
00:55:14.820 --> 00:55:15.360
Yes.

720
00:55:15.420 --> 00:55:16.800
At adventure in space and time.

721
00:55:17.579 --> 00:55:24.719
It's the story of all of his friends going away and Maureen's going to be the last one there.

722
00:55:24.780 --> 00:55:33.840
So Billy Support, the person who was able to wrangle Billy because he genuinely liked her and that chemistry is so visible on the screen.

723
00:55:33.960 --> 00:55:37.079
Like, this is his last support going away.

724
00:55:37.139 --> 00:55:37.980
Verity's gone.

725
00:55:38.039 --> 00:55:39.480
You know, Jackie's gone.

726
00:55:39.539 --> 00:55:41.099
William Russell's gone.

727
00:55:41.159 --> 00:55:43.619
Peter Purvis was a good mate.

728
00:55:43.679 --> 00:55:46.860
So, you know, they actually had this really nice fraternity purpose of suit.

729
00:55:47.519 --> 00:55:47.880
Yeah, yeah.

730
00:55:47.940 --> 00:55:59.400
And their relationship, their relationship is quite good, but essentially, we've now got sort of nothing left in the regular cast that links us to the beginning of the program.

731
00:55:59.460 --> 00:56:01.739
You know, like Bill and the police box.

732
00:56:01.800 --> 00:56:04.860
Yeah, yeah. you know, Vicky's clearly just a sort of replacement for Susan.

733
00:56:04.920 --> 00:56:12.659
And as you said, you know, despite the fact that she's from future England, she's sort of essentially a contemporary character.

734
00:56:12.719 --> 00:56:28.380
Now we're going to go into this very strange run of episodes where nothing has anything very much to do with present day earth and it's all going to start to go horribly, horribly wrong. before?

735
00:56:28.380 --> 00:56:29.880
horribly, horribly wrong.

736
00:56:29.940 --> 00:56:37.980
And it is, you know, this is where Billy's, we're going to just slowly watch him being eased out by the production team.

737
00:56:38.039 --> 00:56:40.380
He gets a bit triumphant before he goes, though.

738
00:56:40.440 --> 00:56:51.659
I think he's one of those people that really triumphs under adversity and you get some of Bill's best acting when he's really put under pressure, as we're probably going to see with the next story.

739
00:56:51.719 --> 00:56:52.980
Yes, indeed.

740
00:56:53.039 --> 00:56:55.260
And the 1st the 1st pressure point.

741
00:56:55.320 --> 00:56:58.920
So this will just be our little segue before we cut to the credits, I think.

742
00:56:58.980 --> 00:57:05.340
Our 1st pressure point is going to be the new companion of Catarina, our 1st historical companion.

743
00:57:05.400 --> 00:57:06.059
Is your companion?

744
00:57:09.719 --> 00:57:20.280
Well, I think we'll let's spend the next hour and a half talking about whether she and Sarah Kingdom a companion.

745
00:57:20.340 --> 00:57:21.360
Well, Lincoln, you're missing.

746
00:57:21.420 --> 00:57:23.400
That's...

747
00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:26.460
So I think that's going to be the topic of next episode, maybe.

748
00:57:26.460 --> 00:57:27.900
I cut you off there.

749
00:57:27.960 --> 00:57:32.280
So that's our 1st episode of season three.

750
00:57:34.079 --> 00:57:40.980
We'll see you back here for next week, which is clearly going to be a rather heated discussion.

751
00:57:41.039 --> 00:57:42.000
Good night.

752
00:57:42.059 --> 00:57:44.760
Good night. good everything.

753
00:57:49.440 --> 00:57:54.780
You've been listening to Flight Through Entirety with Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone.

754
00:57:54.840 --> 00:57:59.099
This episode, Nichols, dear listener, was reported on Sunday, the 10th of August.

755
00:57:59.159 --> 00:58:01.619
The next episode will be released on August 31st.

756
00:58:01.679 --> 00:58:07.980
You can find us at FlightthroughEntirety.com, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTV podcast on Twitter.

757
00:58:08.039 --> 00:58:10.320
It's too late to say whoa to the podcast.

758
00:58:10.380 --> 00:58:10.980
It's already over.

759
00:58:18.119 --> 00:58:21.239
So, um, uh, Galaxy 4.

760
00:58:22.019 --> 00:58:37.139
Now, that sound, that sound you hear, we've slightly changed location for this episode, and we're actually recording at Richard's place, and Richard has a beautiful Siamese Burmese class.

761
00:58:37.199 --> 00:58:40.920
Lots of blue point Siamese steadfast killer.

762
00:58:41.340 --> 00:58:43.619
Novice Haim, is it called?

763
00:58:43.679 --> 00:58:44.460
Yeah, sure.

764
00:58:44.460 --> 00:58:47.340
Called Soutec, the Distroacher, I believe.

765
00:58:47.400 --> 00:58:51.480
There's a reason there's a tile floor in this place. destroyed everything else.

766
00:58:51.539 --> 00:58:57.000
So if you do hear the occasional mewing or howling, do not adjust your set.

767
00:58:57.059 --> 00:58:58.800
Yeah, that'll be you, won't it?

768
00:58:58.860 --> 00:58:59.340
Yes, exactly.

769
00:58:59.400 --> 00:59:02.280
Or possibly Nathan, who's allergic to cats.

770
00:59:02.340 --> 00:59:03.480
Go away.

771
00:59:04.380 --> 00:59:07.380
We might just pause here.

772
00:59:07.380 --> 00:59:12.900
I had comedic value, but just that bit too long. cutting this out.

773
00:59:12.960 --> 00:59:14.219
Come on, sweetheart, you guys.

774
00:59:14.699 --> 00:59:17.039
She's a very beautiful cat.

775
00:59:17.099 --> 00:59:17.639
Yeah.

776
00:59:17.760 --> 00:59:22.260
I don't actually like hats, but I just don't think I'm going to make it to the end of the year.

777
00:59:22.380 --> 00:59:23.579
Don't need to...

778
00:59:23.639 --> 00:59:25.500
Everyone would have lost interest to the podcast.

779
00:59:25.559 --> 00:59:26.760
Okay, stop going on.

780
00:59:26.820 --> 00:59:28.079
Okay, I'll be back in the list.