WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:25:24 1 00:00:28.679 --> 00:00:36.780 Hello and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast whose main export is tons of methane. 2 00:00:36.840 --> 00:00:37.439 I'm Brendan. 3 00:00:37.500 --> 00:00:38.460 I'm Nathan. 4 00:00:38.520 --> 00:00:41.399 And I was a popular figure in these podcasts about an hour ago. 5 00:00:42.119 --> 00:00:46.859 We're heading down to the 3rd moon of Delta Magna for the power of Kroll. 6 00:00:52.920 --> 00:01:04.260 So, this is mine, and as you pointed out, so Abley, in your introduction, Brendan, this is really just the excuse for Bob Holmes's biggest ever fart joke in the entire program. 7 00:01:04.319 --> 00:01:07.140 So we're on the 3rd moon of Delta Magna. 8 00:01:07.260 --> 00:01:20.760 And somehow there's a huge source of methane under the swamp, which they're packaging up and shooting back to Delta Magna to feed the population. 9 00:01:20.819 --> 00:01:25.019 So the entire population of Delta Magna is living off Kroll's farts. 10 00:01:25.079 --> 00:01:27.959 You didn't realise that before, did you, Todd? 11 00:01:28.019 --> 00:01:29.459 That makes no sense at all. 12 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:34.019 Yeah, why don't they just have cows on Delta Magna, you know? 13 00:01:34.079 --> 00:01:37.500 Well, I don't think cows farts are any sort of any better than that. 14 00:01:37.620 --> 00:01:41.879 One of the biggest causes of methane in our atmosphere is cow farts. 15 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:44.040 You can't eat them, you know. 16 00:01:44.099 --> 00:01:47.400 Well, if you can't eat cow farm, me thing. 17 00:01:47.459 --> 00:01:49.079 Why can you eat squid fart? 18 00:01:49.140 --> 00:01:50.040 No, I don't understand it. 19 00:01:50.099 --> 00:01:53.159 These are the important questions we ask on flight through entirety. 20 00:01:53.219 --> 00:01:56.519 Yeah, yeah, and we've got another half an hour to talk about this topic, I think. 21 00:01:56.579 --> 00:01:59.760 It's Bob Holmes and it's his last story for a while. 22 00:01:59.819 --> 00:02:04.560 And I think, is he getting annoyed with the show a bit or something like that? 23 00:02:04.620 --> 00:02:05.760 I think he's tired. 24 00:02:05.819 --> 00:02:09.659 You know, he's been writing Doctor Who since 1969. 25 00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:13.259 You know, he's been scripted at it for three, four years. 26 00:02:13.319 --> 00:02:20.280 He left last year, and then he was asked back to do the first show, and you know, I just think he's just tired. 27 00:02:20.340 --> 00:02:23.280 I mean, I think this story has a bad rap. 28 00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:25.439 There's some stuff in it which I quite like. 29 00:02:25.500 --> 00:02:33.659 But it doesn't just have the flair and the, you know, the dialogue that I would expect from a Bob's home, Bob Holmes. 30 00:02:33.719 --> 00:02:39.539 And I think, you know, Anthony Reeves, obviously, and Graham Reeves have asked him to, you know, write a story with the biggest monster ever. 31 00:02:39.659 --> 00:02:44.699 Well, just be careful. what you wish for because Bob doesn't always, as we know, deliver exactly. 32 00:02:44.759 --> 00:02:46.560 What do you want? 33 00:02:46.620 --> 00:02:52.139 In fact, the more you tell him what to do, the more crotchety he gets. 34 00:02:52.199 --> 00:02:57.300 Yeah, he hates writing to a shopping list, as we will later find out in 1985. 35 00:02:57.539 --> 00:03:04.620 But I mean, really, this is the 1st time he has sort of written to a shopping list in quite a long time. 36 00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:07.620 I think once or twice for Barry Letts, Barry Letts would give him a starting idea. 37 00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:12.539 But here he was given 2 stipulations, as you say, Todd, to write the biggest Doctor Who monster ever. 38 00:03:12.599 --> 00:03:22.439 But also, and I found this out during the week, and this kind of mitigates some of my distaste for the story because as longtime listeners will know, I'm not a big fan of this one. 39 00:03:22.500 --> 00:03:30.960 Graham McDonald, the head of cereals, had asked Graham Williams for less comedy in scripts. 40 00:03:31.020 --> 00:03:32.460 No horror and no comedy. 41 00:03:32.520 --> 00:03:33.960 No horror and no comedy, exactly. 42 00:03:34.020 --> 00:03:35.099 Who could leave you with? 43 00:03:35.159 --> 00:03:35.819 Underworld? 44 00:03:35.939 --> 00:03:37.800 Yes, I think. 45 00:03:37.979 --> 00:03:42.479 But yeah, so Bob Holmes is given right the biggest Doctor Who monster ever. 46 00:03:42.539 --> 00:03:45.300 When Bob Holmes speciality is a humanoid monster. 47 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:49.500 Well, and also no comedy, and that's his other speciality. 48 00:03:49.560 --> 00:03:54.000 So, yeah, I think a little bit of the script is a bit of an up yours to Graham McDonald. 49 00:03:54.060 --> 00:04:04.020 In fact, the monster actually doesn't do the story too much harm because I've said before, I think that Bob Holmes isn't really that interested in monsters. 50 00:04:04.080 --> 00:04:08.759 He never, you know, writes an alien invasion, you know, if he can avoid it. 51 00:04:08.819 --> 00:04:17.579 It's not uncommon for him to have just one big monster that sort of pops out for the episode one cliffhanger and then the climax in episode four. 52 00:04:17.639 --> 00:04:21.240 We had the Shriven Zaal earlier this year, which is pretty much that. 53 00:04:21.300 --> 00:04:22.980 We'll have the magma creature. 54 00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:26.879 We've, you know, the giant rats in talent of winning Chiang. 55 00:04:26.939 --> 00:04:34.079 He's not really that interested in monsters and what he's interested in is people and politics and relationships between people. 56 00:04:34.139 --> 00:04:37.920 And the monster is not that bad, is it? 57 00:04:37.980 --> 00:04:39.120 No, no. 58 00:04:39.180 --> 00:04:52.560 I mean, a lot of people criticise it, but really, the biggest problem with it is, and the director, Norman Stewart has admitted this was a bit of a mistake, and that's the very strict masking he used. 59 00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:55.500 So for the long shots when Kroll comes over the horizon. 60 00:04:55.560 --> 00:04:57.180 You'll notice there's a very, very straight line. 61 00:04:57.240 --> 00:05:01.199 Yes, I think that's probably one of the worst things. 62 00:05:01.259 --> 00:05:11.639 The actual Kroll, the filming of the Kroll Monster itself, whether it be on film or as a puppet thing or whatever, like in the seeds of doom. 63 00:05:11.699 --> 00:05:13.019 It's actually really very good. 64 00:05:13.079 --> 00:05:16.439 It's that stupid straight horizon that makes it look ridiculous. 65 00:05:16.500 --> 00:05:22.620 You know, there is a scene in episode 4 when it's attacking the refinery and that looks pretty terrible as well. 66 00:05:22.680 --> 00:05:23.759 Like the puppet is good. 67 00:05:24.660 --> 00:05:27.120 And it's got this little claw mouth things and all of that. 68 00:05:27.180 --> 00:05:28.319 I think it looks pretty impressive. 69 00:05:28.379 --> 00:05:29.220 It moves really well. 70 00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:35.579 But when it's perched on top of that tiny toy refinery at the end flailing its tentacles around, that's pretty terrible. 71 00:05:35.639 --> 00:05:43.800 And there's also that other shot in episode 4 where they've got that fence and these little tiny tentacles come through it and then it's pretty. 72 00:05:43.860 --> 00:05:45.779 And you're going, that is like the worst shot ever. 73 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:56.399 I think one of the most balling things for me is that like this story contains 2 of the highest rated episodes of the season, episode two, which has got 12.4 and the last episode, which got 9.9 million. 74 00:05:56.519 --> 00:05:59.519 And so people tune in to see this. 75 00:05:59.579 --> 00:06:03.720 They tune in to see these wonderful special effects and that's what they remember about this show. 76 00:06:03.779 --> 00:06:12.000 And of course, in episode 2, then we have the man dressed up as Chrome and I'm saying, Mary 10, which is like just, it looks ridiculous because it was supposed to be ridiculous. 77 00:06:12.060 --> 00:06:20.040 But if you've just tuned in as a casual viewer and you've got Mary attempting to scream with that guy in the puppet gloves and doing all that, you'd be thinking, what the hell? 78 00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:22.740 Do you know, I absolutely adore that scene. 79 00:06:22.860 --> 00:06:24.420 I think it is so brilliantly funny. 80 00:06:24.480 --> 00:06:32.220 And it's the same joke that David Whittaker pulls in the rescue where it turns out that the man in the rubber suit is a man in a rubber suit. 81 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:37.139 And so, and the line, the doctor's line, it probably looked more convincing from the front. 82 00:06:37.199 --> 00:06:38.579 You know how did you know? 83 00:06:38.699 --> 00:06:50.399 I do think, though, that in that moment where Mary Tann's going, what she's actually thinking is, get me my agent. 84 00:06:50.459 --> 00:06:54.899 I think that this is the moment where she's actually decided I'm not doing another year of this. 85 00:06:54.959 --> 00:06:55.920 Was she? 86 00:06:55.980 --> 00:07:04.560 I mean, having to scream at a monster really kind of works against the sort of ironic detachment, then she's she's bringing to the part all year. 87 00:07:04.620 --> 00:07:13.620 And, you know, much like Mrs. Peel, she never really seriously looks like she's, you know, upset or disturbed by any of the danger she's in. 88 00:07:13.680 --> 00:07:21.660 But yeah, in the stones of blood, she actually does a really good scream when she's going down that cliff and it's really, really harrowing. 89 00:07:21.720 --> 00:07:22.620 No I think... 90 00:07:22.680 --> 00:07:23.339 Really? 91 00:07:23.339 --> 00:07:24.660 No, she pulls a funny face. 92 00:07:25.379 --> 00:07:27.420 She just can't scream. 93 00:07:27.480 --> 00:07:28.319 I love it to death. 94 00:07:28.379 --> 00:07:29.939 I think she looks wonderful in this. 95 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:35.399 I love the hair and I love the brown mini skirted thing that she's got on. 96 00:07:35.459 --> 00:07:44.699 If you've ever seen the Kylie Minogue music video keep step back in time, watch for Kylie wearing a sort of a green version of that and her hair done very similar. 97 00:07:44.759 --> 00:07:45.660 It's towards the end. 98 00:07:45.720 --> 00:07:46.500 There's a couple of shots. 99 00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:49.800 I just think, you know, somebody's watched this and gone, you know, she looks wonderful. 100 00:07:49.860 --> 00:07:52.980 But I just, I love Romana in this. 101 00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:53.819 I love Neari. 102 00:07:53.879 --> 00:07:55.139 I mean, I alluded to it at the beginning. 103 00:07:55.199 --> 00:08:05.339 One of my favourite lines of hers in the entire show is when I'm rolled that sort of gets taken away by the Swampies and the doctor goes, well, who's, who's that? 104 00:08:05.399 --> 00:08:09.120 And she goes, oh, well, data, a popular figure in these parts about an hour ago. 105 00:08:09.180 --> 00:08:11.339 And just the way she delivers that line. 106 00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:13.319 I just burst out laughing every time. 107 00:08:13.379 --> 00:08:17.160 When she's being threatened and interrogated by Rome Dart too. 108 00:08:17.220 --> 00:08:22.920 She's really sort of ambulously concerned and wisecracking and stuff. 109 00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:23.879 She really is good. 110 00:08:24.300 --> 00:08:32.399 She kind of exemplifies the Graham Williams era in that she's smart, she's aware of the genre trope. 111 00:08:32.460 --> 00:08:34.740 She's not too fussed by any of the danger. 112 00:08:34.860 --> 00:08:39.179 And so she very much reflects the, you know, the audience. 113 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:41.340 You know, it's a slightly older audience. 114 00:08:41.340 --> 00:08:44.460 We're aware that it's all in fun. 115 00:08:44.460 --> 00:08:47.519 And so we're kind of watching it along with her. 116 00:08:47.580 --> 00:08:52.799 And I think that that's something that will only increase next year, which I'm really looking forward to. 117 00:08:52.860 --> 00:09:04.500 She's also got some great moments in episode 4 when they're on the rack and the doctor's, you know, going on about, I don't know, rain and Romana's telling a real goaty amount. 118 00:09:04.559 --> 00:09:07.559 I mean, I'm rather more interested in surviving myself and stuff like that. 119 00:09:07.620 --> 00:09:09.299 Like, you know, she really, is that Tom? 120 00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:13.500 It's episode 3 and it's they're tied to a rank and... 121 00:09:13.500 --> 00:09:14.519 Oh, this episode is rank. 122 00:09:14.580 --> 00:09:22.080 But my favourite detail is the moment that they get out of it is she goes, my nose has stopped itching. 123 00:09:22.139 --> 00:09:26.879 Now that she's no longer tied up and she's able to scratch it, she doesn't want to anymore. 124 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:30.480 And the doctor's line, this is no time to talk about noses. 125 00:09:30.539 --> 00:09:32.820 I just think all of that stuff is so funny. 126 00:09:32.879 --> 00:09:38.159 But it is, again, you know, they're in mortal peril, but she doesn't really care or what much. 127 00:09:38.220 --> 00:09:38.820 Yeah. 128 00:09:38.879 --> 00:09:41.460 Can I talk about something I've said about the story for a while? 129 00:09:41.580 --> 00:09:44.940 And that is, it's a reworking of the space pirates. 130 00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:49.080 And it's a precursor to K's. 131 00:09:49.139 --> 00:09:50.159 Yeah, yeah, pretty much. 132 00:09:50.220 --> 00:09:51.240 Do you have a checklist? 133 00:09:51.299 --> 00:09:53.039 I have something of a checklist. 134 00:09:53.100 --> 00:09:55.620 So instead of craven, we have Fenna. 135 00:09:55.679 --> 00:09:56.460 Check. 136 00:09:56.519 --> 00:10:02.519 Instead of Argonite, which was the most valuable substance in the universe that's made up. 137 00:10:02.580 --> 00:10:07.679 We have methane, which crawl farts, which I think is a meta Robert Holmes joke. 138 00:10:07.740 --> 00:10:09.419 He's like, if you're going to give me all this shopping list. 139 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:14.580 I'm going to make the most valuable substance of the world as farts. 140 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:26.399 What we don't have, what he's gotten rid of is the sort of space police who were in the space pirates, led by Jack May at that point, because I think he figured out they were awful and boring. 141 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:32.399 Instead of the beacon being broken up, We have the refineery as a setting. 142 00:10:32.460 --> 00:10:34.980 We do lose a few other things as well. 143 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:39.480 Of course, we don't have Madeline a Seagree or any animal. 144 00:10:39.539 --> 00:10:40.259 Any best women at all? 145 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:41.820 right. 146 00:10:41.879 --> 00:10:42.419 Yeah, yeah. 147 00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:43.799 It's poor, isn't it? 148 00:10:43.860 --> 00:10:44.639 It is. 149 00:10:44.700 --> 00:10:51.779 I mean, I would have liked to have seen one of the guys in the refinery be a woman, but of course, Why aren't any of the Swampies women? 150 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:53.039 I mean, I just think that's crazy. 151 00:10:53.100 --> 00:10:54.480 It's a planet of man, again. 152 00:10:54.539 --> 00:10:55.980 What about what's his name? 153 00:10:56.039 --> 00:10:56.879 The gun runner. 154 00:10:56.940 --> 00:10:58.679 That would have been great if... 155 00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:00.120 If that character had been a woman. 156 00:11:00.179 --> 00:11:04.919 Yeah, well, Rome Dutch, who is sort of a slight eccentric. 157 00:11:04.980 --> 00:11:05.940 He's Milo Clancy. 158 00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:10.080 Yeah, but he's also... 159 00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:11.399 Stops as a gun runner as well. 160 00:11:11.460 --> 00:11:13.679 Well, in fact, you've got exactly the same thing. 161 00:11:13.740 --> 00:11:17.700 You've got a planetary system with 2 planets. 162 00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:26.879 In this case, we've got Delta Magna and the 3rd moon of Delta Magna, and we only ever go to the 3rd moon of Delta Magna, just like we have Andrazani, Major and Andrazani Minor. 163 00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:36.240 We've got someone paying a gun runner to bring guns to their enemies in order to prolong a conflict or create a reason to fight. 164 00:11:36.299 --> 00:11:41.279 We've, you know, again, got the most valuable substance in the universe in spectrocks. 165 00:11:41.340 --> 00:11:49.080 Like the whole thing is sort of very similar and we've got a big giant monster as well. you know, just to spice things up and provide a cliffhanger. 166 00:11:49.139 --> 00:11:53.279 I think also a very telling thing is much like Space Pirates. 167 00:11:53.340 --> 00:11:59.639 Dr and Romana, in this case, don't have a great deal of bearing on the plot. 168 00:11:59.700 --> 00:12:03.299 They sort of come in at the end and stop the bomb from exploding and what have you. 169 00:12:03.419 --> 00:12:05.519 That's so perfunctory. 170 00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:07.860 Yeah, yeah. really crazily bad. 171 00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:13.980 It's like Anthony Reid has said to Robert Holmes, oh, the Dr. Romana haven't really done much. 172 00:12:14.039 --> 00:12:22.139 They just run around getting locked up in this room and then they get locked up in that hut and then they get tied to a rack at what have you, which is exactly what happened in the space pirates as well. 173 00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:29.399 It's another example of a rare example, thankfully, of Robert Holmes, preferring to tell stories about other people. 174 00:12:29.460 --> 00:12:34.980 Well, that sort of thing will become quite prevalent with his protégé later on. 175 00:12:35.100 --> 00:12:39.299 Are you referring to the fact that the doctor has to stop the rocket from exploding? 176 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:40.740 Yeah, that's so dodgy. 177 00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:44.940 That whole, like the whole set to Shakespeare, he's trying to do that. 178 00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:48.059 That's one of the poorest pieces of directing and the whole thing. 179 00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:50.639 And the countdown timer has been badly cut out. 180 00:12:50.700 --> 00:13:02.100 If you look at it, the sort of mask around it doesn't have straight edges and he gets 2 big bundles of wires and says, let's hope these are the right ones and then joins them together. 181 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:08.519 Like, it really, we're not bothering to, you know, create a sort of clever resolution here. 182 00:13:08.580 --> 00:13:12.120 We just create a crap one and then hang a lampshade on it, you know. 183 00:13:12.179 --> 00:13:13.259 Oh that was lucky. 184 00:13:13.320 --> 00:13:18.179 So, you know, all of that, that is a little bit terrible, I think. 185 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:20.460 We're heading towards the end of the season. 186 00:13:20.519 --> 00:13:21.480 I think they're running out of money. 187 00:13:21.539 --> 00:13:24.960 I like a lot of the location work and I think it saves a lot of it. 188 00:13:25.019 --> 00:13:26.700 The location is beautiful. 189 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:27.480 It's amazing. 190 00:13:27.539 --> 00:13:34.679 That opening scene where the TARDIS materialises and the reeds around it all the way up to the roof. 191 00:13:34.740 --> 00:13:38.159 So it's like just the roof materialising in a field of reeds. 192 00:13:38.220 --> 00:13:43.799 And then there's all this, you know, all these waterways and things and speedboats and stuff. 193 00:13:43.860 --> 00:13:46.980 All of that is really great, and they have a night shoot. 194 00:13:47.039 --> 00:13:50.700 So, you know, the location stuff and there's a lot of it. 195 00:13:50.820 --> 00:13:51.840 I think it's really good. 196 00:13:51.899 --> 00:13:57.899 And what do you think of the swampies in terms of green and their hair nets and all that sort of thing? 197 00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:08.100 So, look, I mean, they're not wearing many clothes, and there are those famous stories about the difficulty getting the green makeup off. 198 00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:14.220 So they were they went to a nearby army base and had to scrub each other off in the showers. 199 00:14:14.279 --> 00:14:16.139 I wish I hadn't quite put it like that actually. 200 00:14:16.139 --> 00:14:19.500 But so there are all those sort of stories. 201 00:14:19.559 --> 00:14:24.000 Look, this is another Holmes colonialism thing. 202 00:14:24.059 --> 00:14:26.340 And it's pretty progressive. 203 00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:32.580 You know, we always grit our teeth and cross our fingers when home steals with anything like this. 204 00:14:33.059 --> 00:14:38.700 But, you know, politically it's pretty progressive, but sort of fairly obvious. 205 00:14:38.759 --> 00:14:43.500 I mean, the moral is murdering a whole bunch of indigenous people is wrong. 206 00:14:43.559 --> 00:14:46.320 Kicking them off their land is sort of morally dodgy. 207 00:14:46.379 --> 00:14:53.940 It's not, you know, earth shatteringly, you know, inventive moral insights or anything like that, but it's pretty solid, I think. 208 00:14:54.000 --> 00:15:02.580 The biggest problem with the swamp is, is that Sean Appanieri's character, who is called Rankin, is so stupid. 209 00:15:02.700 --> 00:15:10.139 Yeah, but I think that also leads to something a bit more progressive in the script in that a lot of colonial texts. 210 00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:21.360 The natives are seen, natives in inverted colours. are seen as stupid, superstitious idiots and the white man comes in and enlightens them by destroying their culture. 211 00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:27.899 Whereas in this, yes, Rankwin is he's superstitious and he's myopic and what have you. 212 00:15:27.960 --> 00:15:37.019 But the other swampies around him, they are more rational and they question, well, if this is true, then why is this happening? 213 00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:43.379 They're achieving their own enlightenment without the colonial influence. 214 00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:48.600 You know, they're coming to their own realisations that perhaps their religion is not all there is. 215 00:15:48.659 --> 00:15:54.840 Yeah, they're a bit younger, and I think, you know, there's that realisation that you've just discussed. 216 00:15:54.899 --> 00:15:56.279 And I think they're all well played. 217 00:15:56.340 --> 00:15:56.940 I think that's the thing. 218 00:15:57.000 --> 00:15:58.379 I mean, I even think he is very good. 219 00:15:58.500 --> 00:15:59.399 Oh, he is. 220 00:15:59.460 --> 00:16:00.899 John Avonira. fantastic. 221 00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:03.000 Wasn't he Colonel General Carrington? 222 00:16:03.059 --> 00:16:03.720 General Carrington. 223 00:16:03.779 --> 00:16:04.080 Yes. 224 00:16:04.139 --> 00:16:08.220 And Railton in Death to the Dialects, where he gets an arrow in his back. 225 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:09.120 Very early on. 226 00:16:09.659 --> 00:16:10.320 Very early on. 227 00:16:10.379 --> 00:16:13.379 Yeah, yeah. he's he's kind of the big guest star of that story. 228 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:15.179 He's killed off early, we discussed at the time. 229 00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:16.980 But it carries all of those scenes. 230 00:16:16.980 --> 00:16:18.539 Yeah, he is very good. 231 00:16:18.659 --> 00:16:32.879 In fact, I think most of the car lost, both outside the Rafani inside the farming generally, I think are fairly competent and actually sell a lot of the blender dialogue that Robert Holmes this time has had to deliver. 232 00:16:32.940 --> 00:16:42.539 The Sons of Earth things very interesting, which I kind of equate a bit to Greenpeast, which I think were becoming more prominent, I remember as a child. 233 00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:48.960 And certainly the media painted green piece is these wacky loonies, which is sort of painted a bit like this in this story. 234 00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:50.340 Yeah, that's the attitude, you know? 235 00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:53.039 Thorn and Philip Murdoch, yeah. 236 00:16:53.100 --> 00:16:57.059 But you know, thank goodness they were making a stand when they were in the 1970s. 237 00:16:57.120 --> 00:16:58.620 Otherwise, you know, where would we be today? 238 00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:19.259 Yeah, and also, it's interesting that they're not presented as mad loonies, you know, we only get one speech from a sons of earth character who is, of course, Dugin, played by John Leeson because canine couldn't go on the marshes, but his speech and then death actually serves to further the idea. 239 00:17:19.319 --> 00:17:23.339 It's interesting that that idea doesn't play more of a role in the plot. 240 00:17:23.460 --> 00:17:28.619 You know, we don't see the sons of Earth, except for Dugin's last stand. 241 00:17:28.740 --> 00:17:32.339 But yeah, it's a little bit of world building. 242 00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:35.460 Yeah, and the homes always does do that, I think. 243 00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:45.539 You know, you always get the impression that there's more going on in the world than we actually get to see, and he'll always reference, you know, names and places and people that we haven't heard of. 244 00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:47.220 And Sons Verse, a perfect example. 245 00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:48.119 So they're there. 246 00:17:48.180 --> 00:17:58.559 The swampies originally think that the sons of Earth are providing them with weapons, but does you gain point that out earlier on that there's no way they would do that because they're sort of famously pacifist or something like that? 247 00:17:58.619 --> 00:17:59.519 Yeah, yeah. 248 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:05.940 And it turns out, of course, Thorn is doing it, just like Morgus will later on, just to get a conflict going. 249 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:07.380 Who plays Thorn? 250 00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:12.059 Neil McCarthy, who we previously saw as Barnum in the mind of evil. 251 00:18:12.119 --> 00:18:12.839 Of course. 252 00:18:12.900 --> 00:18:15.420 I kept a big giant head, doesn't he? 253 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:16.920 Like one hell of a giant hair. 254 00:18:16.980 --> 00:18:25.140 But between Neil, Philip Maddock, and John Leason, I think they do a great job of distinguishing those 3 characters within that really bland set. 255 00:18:25.140 --> 00:18:27.240 Because there's a guy, is it hard? 256 00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:31.980 He wraps himself in a tentacle and climbs into a pipe. 257 00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:32.759 Yeah, that's right. 258 00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:33.779 Terrible. 259 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:34.859 He's terrible. 260 00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:37.559 I really think he is that bad. 261 00:18:37.619 --> 00:18:40.140 And that's another thing that's quite funny. 262 00:18:40.200 --> 00:18:49.140 Nathan is like, as you said, he climbs into the thing and I think it's Thorn or somebody who says, oh, yes, you know, it's just been broken like it's like it's wood because it probably is. 263 00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:55.680 But it's one of those ironic lines that Holmes, or maybe Anthony Reed has come up with and thrown it in there. 264 00:18:55.740 --> 00:19:02.460 It does sound like a home sign because Holmes is constantly making fun of the production limitations in the actual script itself. 265 00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:08.640 Inside the refinery, we have Thorn, who's Neil McCarthy, and he's really terrific actually. 266 00:19:08.700 --> 00:19:11.339 I think he's a he is a great villain. 267 00:19:11.460 --> 00:19:14.880 You know, he's unpleasant, he's not camp. 268 00:19:14.940 --> 00:19:18.059 He's not intentionally funny or anything like that. 269 00:19:18.119 --> 00:19:22.619 He's kind of horrible and low rent, but he is just kind of horrible. 270 00:19:22.680 --> 00:19:25.319 But he works quite well because he doesn't overdo it. 271 00:19:25.319 --> 00:19:33.839 And he swings, and he swings, he swings back a bit to not being quite the villain at certain times when he goes outside and sees Croll and is sort of all shaken up by that. 272 00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:35.400 It's actually quite a nice. 273 00:19:35.460 --> 00:19:40.500 I think it's a really good performance and then you've got Philip Maddock somewhere in the middle who goes one way and then the other. 274 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:44.400 So Philip Maddock, of course, thought that he was going to be the villain. 275 00:19:44.460 --> 00:19:47.880 And so this is his last story for the program, I think. 276 00:19:47.940 --> 00:19:53.279 And I think it is because he was annoyed that he was playing a bit part rather than the actual villain. 277 00:19:53.339 --> 00:19:58.200 He is terrific, so he doesn't get to do the shouty blustry thing he does. 278 00:19:58.259 --> 00:20:05.819 He does that sort of low, deep, contained, menacing thing that he does so terrifically well. 279 00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:09.839 It does waste him a little bit, but he does get to do some really good acting. 280 00:20:09.900 --> 00:20:13.200 I particularly like his response when Thorne kills Du Geen. 281 00:20:13.259 --> 00:20:15.420 I think he's he's great. 282 00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:21.839 You know, he's as much of a villain as Thorn in the sense that he doesn't care, particularly about the swamp. 283 00:20:22.259 --> 00:20:27.180 He's not quite as bad as Thorn, but he, you know, like he's not a good guy. 284 00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:35.819 Yeah, I mean, it sort of helps to shade in because you've got Thorn who hates the swampies and wants to see them all wiped out. 285 00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:45.240 You've got Dugin, who believes that as the native people there, they have a right to that land where the humans don't. 286 00:20:45.299 --> 00:20:54.420 And then you've got Fenner in the middle, Philip Maddock, who even says at one point, I've got no particular love for the swampies, but I don't want to see them wiped out. 287 00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:55.319 Yeah. 288 00:20:55.319 --> 00:21:00.480 You know, and so it gives us middle ground where in these post-colonial stories, we don't always have that. 289 00:21:00.539 --> 00:21:03.420 In terms of the casting. 290 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:06.180 And this has been reported and contradicted. 291 00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:07.980 So I've tried to make as much sense of it as I can. 292 00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:13.559 Apparently, Maddock was tentatively offered the part of Thorn that had another production on. 293 00:21:13.619 --> 00:21:14.819 So said, look, I can't do it. 294 00:21:14.940 --> 00:21:15.480 Right. 295 00:21:15.539 --> 00:21:18.779 The guy playing Fenner, Alan Browning, dropped out. 296 00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:23.400 And Philip Maddox, other production, dropped through. got pushed back or something. 297 00:21:23.460 --> 00:21:27.480 So he got in touch with Norman Stewart and said, oh, look, I'm available. 298 00:21:27.539 --> 00:21:29.519 And Norman Stewart said, oh, well, I've got a part for you. 299 00:21:29.579 --> 00:21:31.440 And it ends up being... 300 00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:32.279 It ends up being fed. 301 00:21:32.339 --> 00:21:38.819 And because Thorn had since been recast as Neil McCarthy, and that's why Philip Maddock thought he was getting the role. of thought. 302 00:21:38.819 --> 00:21:56.400 Because I always thought, you know, it's very weird that he thought he was being thorn and then turned up to rehearsals and he's being Fenna, unless, and that's where I did my research and found out, oh, okay, it seems like he was off of Thorn originally, turned it down, and then he was offered a part and thought, oh, it's the same part. 303 00:21:56.460 --> 00:21:57.839 It wasn't. 304 00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:01.319 Apparently, Martin Jarvis was going to play Dugin. 305 00:22:01.380 --> 00:22:04.440 Uh, yes, yes, that's right. 306 00:22:04.500 --> 00:22:13.740 And he had to pull out and they suddenly realised that John Leeson was contracted for the 4 episodes anyway, they would have had to pay him regardless. 307 00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:16.680 And so they just said, do you want to do this? 308 00:22:16.740 --> 00:22:17.519 He's like, oh, great. 309 00:22:17.579 --> 00:22:21.599 You know, I get to spend 4 weeks not on my hands and knees running around the studio. 310 00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:24.839 They save money, you know, they don't have to pay somebody else. 311 00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:25.559 Exactly. 312 00:22:25.619 --> 00:22:26.400 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 313 00:22:26.460 --> 00:22:32.099 There's a wonderful moment in one of the commentaries because it's Tom and John Leeson. 314 00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:33.119 Oh wow. 315 00:22:33.180 --> 00:22:33.900 Yeah. 316 00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:40.619 So, for instance, when everyone comes out of the TARDIS at the beginning, you get this wonderful bit of, oh, Mary. 317 00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:43.259 Oh, John, I saw Mary the other day. 318 00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:45.000 She's still so beautiful. 319 00:22:46.980 --> 00:22:53.099 And then you get the 1st scene in the refinery and John Lisa says, hold on, that's me. 320 00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:56.039 And then Dugin says, I'm getting an echo track on here. 321 00:22:56.099 --> 00:22:57.720 Oh, tell me about it mate. 322 00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:01.259 So there's no Philip Maddock commentary? 323 00:23:01.319 --> 00:23:06.660 There's no Philip Maddock commentary and this is the only commentary for the series in the box set that doesn't feature... 324 00:23:06.779 --> 00:23:08.579 There's not a Mary Tam commentary on the disc. 325 00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:09.359 Oh okay. 326 00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:16.140 It's such a shame that John Leeson doesn't get to act in many scenes with Mary and Tom in this. 327 00:23:16.200 --> 00:23:22.440 Like, I think there's only like one scene virtually with Tom and then I think Mary and Tom are down the corridor when he gets shot. 328 00:23:22.740 --> 00:23:25.500 It does show his acting chops a bit. 329 00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:36.240 Because he plays the role very convincingly and very sympathetically, and there's no 4th wall breaking sense where he makes a joke about dogs or something, you know? 330 00:23:36.299 --> 00:23:38.759 It's actually a bit of a thankless role. 331 00:23:38.819 --> 00:23:43.500 There's a lot of sitting looking at screens in episode 3 watching the farts builder. 332 00:23:43.559 --> 00:23:44.460 You know what I mean? 333 00:23:44.519 --> 00:23:47.819 It's not really an acting tour de force. 334 00:23:47.819 --> 00:23:48.660 No. 335 00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:52.500 And Philip Maddock does get the wonderful line at one point of it. 336 00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:54.000 It hasn't moved in 15 minutes. 337 00:23:54.960 --> 00:24:02.579 I love it when it moves across the screen and like you, as a kid, I like the fact that, oh, yes, it's a big giant octopus thing in there going, oh, what's that? 338 00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:03.000 What's that? 339 00:24:03.059 --> 00:24:04.859 And they're absolutely clueless. 340 00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:09.000 I love those things And the graphic itself is quite good for the time. 341 00:24:09.059 --> 00:24:09.839 Yeah. 342 00:24:09.900 --> 00:24:13.200 Yeah, the sort of vaguely oscilloscope kind of thing. 343 00:24:13.500 --> 00:24:16.079 The 7 rituals of death. 344 00:24:16.140 --> 00:24:17.519 Seven holy rituals. 345 00:24:17.579 --> 00:24:18.839 Holy rituals. 346 00:24:18.900 --> 00:24:19.619 What are they? 347 00:24:19.859 --> 00:24:24.240 No, neither do I. throw into the shriven Zahl. 348 00:24:24.299 --> 00:24:26.579 Watching invisible enemy. 349 00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:38.579 So there's one thing that we haven't mentioned, and it's been historically a massively important part of our program during the coverage of the 1970s, and that's Welshwide. 350 00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:39.420 Yes, he's back. 351 00:24:39.539 --> 00:24:40.920 Really? 352 00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:43.859 Yeah, no, Terry Walsh, and he actually has a name. 353 00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:45.299 He actually plays a character. 354 00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:49.259 He's not just donning the Tom Wig and throwing himself around a swamp or anything. 355 00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:59.400 He plays Mensch, who is the servant, you know, the swampy servant who's attending them in episode one. and he doesn't get counted. 356 00:24:59.460 --> 00:25:01.079 Remember the Swampies don't count. 357 00:25:01.140 --> 00:25:04.319 So when they count, how many people are living on the refinery, they leave him out. 358 00:25:04.380 --> 00:25:08.099 And isn't he a bit brighter green than the rest of them? 359 00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:14.700 He is. a studio swampy and he doesn't get outside very much, so he's not quite as tanned as the others. 360 00:25:14.819 --> 00:25:21.660 I do wonder if by the time they got into the studio, maybe they used a different green paint after what happened on location. 361 00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:24.299 Yes, one that would come off in the shower. 362 00:25:24.420 --> 00:25:28.680 I know I was having the scrub terry for hours after recording. 363 00:25:28.740 --> 00:25:35.759 And so predictably he betrays them because they have such disregard for him, which I think is pretty good. 364 00:25:36.539 --> 00:25:39.119 Oh, he will be back once more. 365 00:25:39.180 --> 00:25:41.220 We have one more Walsh watch next year. 366 00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:43.440 Does he speak as men? 367 00:25:43.740 --> 00:25:44.099 I't remember. 368 00:25:44.160 --> 00:25:46.740 We see him get out of radio at one point, but do we actually hear him talk? 369 00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:49.559 I can't remember because he does talk in his next role next year. 370 00:25:49.619 --> 00:25:50.160 Yeah, yeah. 371 00:25:50.160 --> 00:26:01.799 The scene where he has ventures offering drinks around, of course, gives Tom a little bit of a little bit of comedy, but because of the way the scene is shot. you've got to really look at it. 372 00:26:01.859 --> 00:26:05.099 But have a look at the scene where Mench is offering drinks around. 373 00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:11.700 And this gives rise to Tom Baker's anecdote about when he was having arguments with directors about how he was playing the scene. 374 00:26:11.700 --> 00:26:22.500 And Tom now says, you know, he would say to directors that Time Lords have this tradition where when you are given a glass or something, you raise it to your ear so that you can something like, hear the world of the people around you. 375 00:26:22.980 --> 00:26:27.720 And the directors would say, that's a complete load of toss, isn't it? 376 00:26:27.779 --> 00:26:28.980 And Tom says, yes, it is rather. 377 00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:36.480 But in this, Tom takes a glass of something, raises it to his ear, and then drops it in his pocket. 378 00:26:36.539 --> 00:26:37.559 Really? 379 00:26:37.619 --> 00:26:37.980 Yes. 380 00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:40.019 Have a look at that, have a look at that scene again. 381 00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:41.579 It's his 1st scene in the refinery. 382 00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:43.740 Mench gives him a drink, and it's never referenced again. 383 00:26:43.799 --> 00:26:45.779 Like, you think maybe he's going to pull it out at some point. 384 00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:48.660 Then throw it at the fake Kroll who's menacing Romana. 385 00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:49.920 No, never seen again. 386 00:26:49.980 --> 00:26:53.160 That's better than pertly drinking cups of tea with his eyes. 387 00:26:56.339 --> 00:26:58.200 I can't remember. 388 00:26:58.259 --> 00:27:00.539 Sometime in the 70s, someone hands in the cup of tea. 389 00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:02.940 He looks at it and then he hands it back and he's done. 390 00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:04.559 Oh, yes, that's right. great. 391 00:27:04.619 --> 00:27:05.640 That's in the time monster. 392 00:27:06.660 --> 00:27:12.960 Tom's goloshes change between students and location work. 393 00:27:13.019 --> 00:27:15.900 It's one of those things that just annoys me a little bit. 394 00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:17.519 But then you get other things that I really like. 395 00:27:17.579 --> 00:27:23.579 Like when they walk into the refoning, there's a shot of the rain outside of a window and it's just, I think it's a brilliant little shot. 396 00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:34.259 The TARDIS has always had chameleonic footwear, though, because, of course, the doctor's shoes and indeed entire clothes changed during his 1st generation. 397 00:27:34.319 --> 00:27:39.720 There are several stories where the 2nd doctor managers to whip galoshes on and off. 398 00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:47.940 You know, so it's not it's not without precedent, but yeah, Tom goes from wearing brown brogues to giant green, stripy galoshes. 399 00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:49.500 It's a little bit noticeable. 400 00:27:49.559 --> 00:27:52.920 So how do we feel about the key to time at this point in the season? 401 00:27:52.980 --> 00:27:59.940 We had a recap, I think, at the, you know, at the beginning of the 3rd story at the beginning of Stones of Blood just to bring us all up to speed. 402 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:04.259 Well, this is my 5th favourite story, the key to time. 403 00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:06.059 It's all going downhill for you, is it? 404 00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:10.980 Well, yeah, but I think I think this is slightly weaker than the 1st 4 segments. 405 00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:13.259 But there's still a lot to like in it. 406 00:28:13.319 --> 00:28:14.400 And I do like this. 407 00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:16.859 And the key to time, well, doesn't really figure that much. 408 00:28:16.980 --> 00:28:23.039 I mean, again, Paul Romana has to be turned into an idiot when it comes to what where the actual segment is and what it actually is. 409 00:28:23.099 --> 00:28:25.559 They kind of don't even mention it for a while. 410 00:28:25.619 --> 00:28:27.299 Oh, it's all over the swamp, isn't it? 411 00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:28.920 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 412 00:28:28.980 --> 00:28:32.460 I quite like that much like in the stones of blood. 413 00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:35.460 The properties of the key to time are explored. 414 00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:43.619 So in the stones of blood, the key to time was helping Sussair, to change the appearance of herself and the stones and what have you. 415 00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:51.299 In this, the properties of the key allow Kroll to grow to a massive size and to expel all that methane. 416 00:28:53.099 --> 00:28:53.759 Just makes no sense. 417 00:28:53.819 --> 00:28:55.500 For a hungry planet. 418 00:28:55.559 --> 00:28:57.299 With me thing, with a gas. 419 00:28:57.839 --> 00:28:59.640 What the hell? 420 00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:00.359 I don't know. 421 00:29:00.420 --> 00:29:02.099 It was probably more convincing from the front. 422 00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:05.579 Did Anthony Reid and Randy Mimmons not understand what methane actually was? 423 00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:10.500 Bob just put it in there and they just said, oh, yes, yes, yes, it's just a term and they just didn't really understand? 424 00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:22.740 Well, I do, I do wonder if, at the time, energy researchers were perhaps looking into methane as a substitute for natural gas, because, of course, you can ignite me pain, you can probably cook with it. 425 00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:25.019 You just may not want to taste the food. 426 00:29:25.079 --> 00:29:26.099 Isn't it natural? 427 00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:27.900 Yes, it's natural. 428 00:29:28.500 --> 00:29:31.140 Lots of things are natural type. 429 00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:34.500 But okay, this is Bob Holmes' last script for a while. 430 00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:35.640 Do we know why? 431 00:29:35.700 --> 00:29:36.359 Why? 432 00:29:36.420 --> 00:29:39.900 Is it because he's tired or did he golf and do other things or he just didn't want to do Doctor Who? 433 00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:42.599 Well, he certainly went off and did Blake's episodes of Blake 7. 434 00:29:42.660 --> 00:29:44.759 Great episodes of Blake 7, actually. 435 00:29:44.819 --> 00:29:48.059 Yeah, I think he was probably just a bit bored with Doctor Who. 436 00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:51.779 You know, it's a bit like Russell T. Davis was in charge of Doctor Who for 5 years. 437 00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:57.180 And aside from a two-parter for the Sarah Jane Adventures, he hasn't written for it again. 438 00:29:57.240 --> 00:30:00.000 And he says, you know, oh, I'm busy working other things. 439 00:30:00.059 --> 00:30:02.099 I love to do at some point, but I'm busy working on other things. 440 00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:13.319 But that's the thing with most writers will say that even if they've written a series of something, they want to move on to other things. 441 00:30:13.380 --> 00:30:19.500 Like, you know, J.K. Rowling could still be writing Harry Potter books now, if it was just about the money, but it's not. 442 00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:20.279 It's about the art. 443 00:30:20.339 --> 00:30:22.559 You know, she had a story and she told it, and that's it. 444 00:30:22.619 --> 00:30:30.359 Agatha Christie famously hated Poirot, and only kept writing him because the readers wanted to read him. 445 00:30:30.420 --> 00:30:32.819 They're like Conan Doyle and Sherlock Holmes. 446 00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:33.660 Exactly, yeah. 447 00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:40.619 That is why Agatha Christie invented Miss Marple, because she thought, Okay, yeah, I need to write this priorogue guy, but I'm going to write someone I actually like. 448 00:30:40.740 --> 00:30:44.279 Actually, Donna Noble invented, Miss Miss Marple. 449 00:30:44.339 --> 00:30:44.700 That's true. 450 00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:54.000 But I think it is interesting that Anthony Reed, a script editor, has to ask Bob Holmes to come in and write another story for this season. 451 00:30:54.059 --> 00:30:55.440 Like, are there no other writers? 452 00:30:55.500 --> 00:31:00.059 I mean, obviously Chris Boucher's gone on and is now writing for Blake 7? 453 00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:02.220 He's one of the new writers that they've had over the last 2 years. 454 00:31:02.220 --> 00:31:14.279 And I applaud Anthony Reid because he's obviously worked with Douglas Adams and with David Fisher on, you know, 3 stories in a row, you know, new writers to nurture them and get all their scripts up to speed. 455 00:31:14.339 --> 00:31:18.720 And so obviously he wants a script that can be delivered that he doesn't have to do a lot of work on. 456 00:31:18.779 --> 00:31:20.579 You know, Bob is an obvious candidate. 457 00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:22.920 Is there no one else? 458 00:31:23.460 --> 00:31:26.099 We could have asked Bob Baker and Dave Martin to do another story. 459 00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:28.380 They could have asked them to do another story. 460 00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:39.000 In fact, I think they should have asked them to do this story, at least it would have only been 4 episodes, but I'm getting ahead of myself here. as quite often happens with Robert Holmes. he was not the original writer for this slot. 461 00:31:39.059 --> 00:31:41.759 There was nothing in this slot for ages. 462 00:31:41.819 --> 00:31:46.680 And then the writer for the 4th story, which would eventually become the androids of Tara. 463 00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:51.000 It was a chap called Ted Lewis, who was attempting to write a story called The Shield of Zarak. 464 00:31:51.059 --> 00:31:52.380 We know very little about it. 465 00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:53.640 Sounds terrible, though. 466 00:31:53.700 --> 00:31:54.660 It does sound tiresome. 467 00:31:54.720 --> 00:31:56.220 But that fell through. 468 00:31:56.279 --> 00:32:04.680 And so Anthony Reed, facing a bit of a script crisis because now, you know, in his mind, it's like, okay, we've got one story, which isn't sorted, that's not so bad. 469 00:32:04.740 --> 00:32:08.099 Suddenly he's got two, and that's why he turned to David Fisher and Bob Holmes. 470 00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:08.579 Right. 471 00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:11.579 Because these are 2 people who can turn it around. 472 00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:13.799 David Fisher was a great discovery this year. 473 00:32:13.859 --> 00:32:19.500 I think he wrote 2 pretty good stories, you know, so he's written a 3rd of the season just about. 474 00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:20.400 He'll be back. 475 00:32:20.460 --> 00:32:22.200 I think he's good. 476 00:32:22.259 --> 00:32:23.279 I think he's good too. 477 00:32:23.339 --> 00:32:32.279 And I think I wouldn't be surprised if, you know, Anthony Reid had to do a bit of work. on the stones of blood, so that David Fisher understood the story structure and all that sort of thing. 478 00:32:32.339 --> 00:32:38.519 But I think he's such a competent writer that he probably had to do very little work on the Android Satara. 479 00:32:38.579 --> 00:32:42.299 So he had Tara going, and then there was this slot, what am I going to do? 480 00:32:42.359 --> 00:32:43.559 And Bob's your man. 481 00:32:43.619 --> 00:32:45.000 Which one does Fisher do next year? 482 00:32:45.059 --> 00:32:52.619 He does creature from the pit, but he also wrote a gamble with time, which, of course, is what the city of death got turned into. 483 00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:55.019 And then leisure hype, obviously, for season 18. 484 00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:56.640 And then no more, which is such a shame. 485 00:32:56.700 --> 00:32:59.700 But anyway, it's JNT's fault. talk about that at the time. 486 00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:02.220 And what about Nelly Melba's party piece? 487 00:33:02.279 --> 00:33:03.539 That's stunning. 488 00:33:03.660 --> 00:33:04.440 Yeah, stupid. 489 00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:08.880 Look, I think there's a lot of, I think there's a lot inmates. 490 00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:12.420 There's a lot of tiny little touches that I really like and find amusing. 491 00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:13.920 Yeah, it's still homes. 492 00:33:13.980 --> 00:33:14.519 He's still funny. 493 00:33:14.579 --> 00:33:23.460 You know, it's nothing earth shattering, but, you know, it's competent fun performances, some funny jokes, you know, what morning one, big giant fart monster. 494 00:33:23.519 --> 00:33:25.559 The working title for this story? 495 00:33:25.619 --> 00:33:27.299 Very tense, fabulous. 496 00:33:27.359 --> 00:33:28.259 Planet of Farts. 497 00:33:31.380 --> 00:33:32.759 The moon of death. 498 00:33:32.819 --> 00:33:34.079 Oh, really? 499 00:33:34.140 --> 00:33:37.259 That's another bum joke from home. 500 00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:39.180 The moon of death. 501 00:33:39.299 --> 00:33:41.279 Didn't we have that last year? 502 00:33:41.339 --> 00:33:46.980 I just came up with a conspiracy theory, which is kind of what I do on these podcasts. 503 00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:48.480 Is it about unit dating? 504 00:33:48.539 --> 00:33:49.740 It's not about unit dating. 505 00:33:49.799 --> 00:33:51.660 Are you sure it's not about unit data? 506 00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:52.980 It's not about unit dating this time. 507 00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:57.599 It's also not about how the TARDIS knows when to put phone calls through to the doctor. 508 00:33:57.660 --> 00:34:02.039 Thank you, listener Mike Williams, who raised that the other day on our Facebook page. 509 00:34:02.099 --> 00:34:08.639 No, I said at the beginning of this, that Graham McDonald had put down the edict that this script needed to have less comedy. 510 00:34:08.699 --> 00:34:12.900 And yet next year in Doctor Who, we get a lot more comedy. 511 00:34:14.340 --> 00:34:27.960 I wonder if this script was deliberately produced, not only with less comedy, but with less care, let's say, than the previous four stories, to prove that you can't do Doctor Who without comedy. 512 00:34:28.019 --> 00:34:33.059 And as such, Graham McDonald relented... 513 00:34:33.119 --> 00:34:36.719 Perhaps, just perhaps doing this now, we might go too far in the other direction. 514 00:34:36.900 --> 00:34:47.880 Or maybe not, maybe it's actually the next story that is produced without comedy, to prove the fact that we need to do a lot more comedy the following season. 515 00:34:59.940 --> 00:35:04.380 Well, we're taking off on a rather smelly rocket sled at the moment. 516 00:35:04.500 --> 00:35:06.360 From the Moon of Delta Magna. 517 00:35:06.420 --> 00:35:10.739 We will next see you on the planet of Atreos next week for the Armageddon factor. 518 00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:11.760 Don't eat the food. 519 00:35:11.820 --> 00:35:12.239 Tom. 520 00:35:12.360 --> 00:35:15.719 Don't forget, you can find us online at flightthroughentirety.com. 521 00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:20.039 Flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on Twitter. 522 00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:25.739 And don't forget, dear listeners, you can now catch bondfinger commentaries on bondfinger.com. 523 00:35:25.800 --> 00:35:33.360 So that's the 1st 5 Sean Connery films on Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes and Bond Fingercast on Twitter. 524 00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:39.179 Until we see you on one of those, may none of your farts be sent off in rockets as a power source. 525 00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:40.380 Thank you very much and good night. 526 00:35:40.440 --> 00:35:41.219 Good night. 527 00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:42.599 See you, Moon. 528 00:35:45.900 --> 00:35:50.760 That was flat through entirety with Todd Booby, Nathan Bottomley and Brendan Jones. 529 00:35:50.820 --> 00:35:56.579 This episode, another Holmes Colonialism thing, was recorded on November the 8th, 2015. 530 00:35:56.880 --> 00:36:06.300 The next episode will be released on January 10th, between the Scarrison's Milk, and Kroll's Mithane, I dread to think what food we will get from a rajo next year. 531 00:36:12.360 --> 00:36:14.219 We want to take that toy off, Alfie. 532 00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:16.380 Definitely. 533 00:36:16.380 --> 00:36:17.159 What's he going? 534 00:36:17.219 --> 00:36:19.800 Oh, that'll that's a squeeze toy. 535 00:36:19.860 --> 00:36:20.760 It will make a noise. 536 00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:24.179 Oh, well, if he makes a noise, makes a noise. 537 00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:26.880 It's all part of life theatre. 538 00:36:26.940 --> 00:36:28.920 It's part of it. 539 00:36:28.980 --> 00:36:31.079 Should I close the door? 540 00:36:31.139 --> 00:36:34.500 Oh, that might that might help with the airplane noise, yeah. 541 00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:36.239 Yeah, it doesn't actually happen all. 542 00:36:36.300 --> 00:36:36.960 Is it who this? 543 00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:38.940 Little man. 544 00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:39.960 Take that off. 545 00:36:40.079 --> 00:36:44.460 Do you want to take a toy that you've already broken the squeeze thing for? 546 00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:46.079 Nope, I want that one. 547 00:36:46.139 --> 00:36:47.639 You know he wants them. 548 00:36:47.699 --> 00:36:48.659 You have Dumbo. 549 00:36:49.019 --> 00:36:51.179 Prince is upstairs. 550 00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:53.639 Who is? 551 00:36:53.699 --> 00:36:55.920 Prince, is his favourite boy? 552 00:36:55.980 --> 00:36:57.480 I know he has sex with. 553 00:36:57.659 --> 00:37:02.519 He doesn't sex with him. fixed early in a week, but duh. 554 00:37:02.579 --> 00:37:04.440 And he was popping Prince. 555 00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:07.019 What do you think of this story, Alfie? 556 00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:08.460 Little me? 557 00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:09.420 What do you reckon? 558 00:37:09.480 --> 00:37:10.679 Okay. 559 00:37:10.739 --> 00:37:11.760 He's got no opinion. 560 00:37:12.360 --> 00:37:15.420 He's really Colin Baker fan, actually. 561 00:37:16.019 --> 00:37:19.380 It's all the it's all the bright colours. 562 00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:20.340 The colour of movement. 563 00:37:20.940 --> 00:37:22.320 Okay.