WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 16:06:37

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From the team that brought you, 8 episodes of Season 15, including

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Underworld.

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On the writers who wrote out Sarah Jane Smith in such style, from

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the creators of Omega, and the best writers of the brigadier ever

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comes, the Armageddon factor, the conclusion to the key to time.

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What could possibly go wrong with that?

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast who knows the secret of the Grads.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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And I'm Bob Baker and Dave Martin's greatest fan.

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Not.

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It's time to finish the key to time on the planet of Atreos.

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Oh, and also the planet of Zeops.

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Oh, and also the planet of evil, which is oddly shaped like a

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bunch of eggs stuck to a ball.

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It's the Armageddon factor.

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Philip Xander points out that, obviously, if you have a giant

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complex season long arc that's got to pay off at the end of the

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year in a really spectacular way to justify everything that's come

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before it, you turn to Bob Baker and Dave Martin and get them to

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ride it.

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What have I done to deserve this?

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This is mine.

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But yes, Nathan and Philip.

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What in Blaze as well?

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Anthony Reid and Graham Williams thinking.

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I just think they don't think they're banned.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Why do they keep coming back to them?

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They do a reliably crap job every time they're employed.

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As I have said before, and I would say it again, they managed to

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write probably 2 decent episodes of Doctor Who, every season that

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they write.

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And now they've been given 6 episodes this year.

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Six episodes at the end of a season when there is no budget.

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We have no location filming at all.

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Last year, they delivered 8 tantalising episodes that were all

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what, indoors, and didn't they turn out spectacularly?

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I actually don't think they managed their 2 episodes this season, I

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actually think they're coming under that.

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It might be half a good episode in here, maybe.

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You've gotta find it.

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Like, I'm not saying, like, it's 2 episodes of the whole episode.

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It's like 5 minutes in episode one maybe.

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Yeah, that is correct.

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That is these people deliver underworld.

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They delivered the invisible enemy.

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The realistic scenarios of the hand of fear, right?

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They did the most wonderful job with the brigadies character in

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the 3 doctors.

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Check.

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What, what, what are they thinking?

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Anthony, I saw the um, Dr. Anthony redid an underworld.

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And he was going about all this wonderful script that was just, you

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know, in the drawer, ready to go.

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No, it's in the drawer at the bottom of the drawer for a reason.

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In fact, this is this does all of the things that they do badly.

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So one of the things that they do badly.

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And even in their 1st story, which was claws of axos, which I

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think is pretty good, you know, is all the characters are suddenly

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giant blustering caricatures, like the brigadier ends up being in

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the 3 doctors.

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And so you get Astra, who's a noble princess and you get Marak

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who's like incredibly wet, and you get comedy posh guy, Shap, and

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you get the marshal.

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And, you know, like none of them are any more than one note.

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They're all just terribly boring.

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And then you get, you know, they're throwing a whole heap of ideas

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against the wall, playing with them for 10 minutes and then

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abandoning them.

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You get something about television, something about the way

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oratory is used to justify war.

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You get the military stalemate, you get a, you get a computer

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general, you get Drax, you get shrinking, you get hallucinations

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you know, you get a time loop that stretches, you get mind control

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devices, all of these things.

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And they're all in support of a plot where people just run around

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from place to place going through that wretched transmat thing

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over a gang.

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Oh, we're jumping ahead, but Nathan, 0 my goodness.

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Like you've come up with, that's a wonderful list because all I

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thought is that they went in and they pitched at me.

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They said, well, we've got this wonderful idea, you know, to sum

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up the key to time.

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We've got these 2 warring planets, and we're going to have the

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Black Guardians agent just sit there for 1000s and 1000s of years

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not doing anything and waiting for the doctor to collect all the

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other pieces, and then he'll just come in and just go, the key to

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time is mine.

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Mine, mine, End of cliphanger.

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Well, look at...

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Can we start the beginning?

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That's start the beginning.

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I had not seen this for a long time not this time round.

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A few years ago, I actually bought the American box head.

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And then it started, and there's this soap opera thing going on.

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Young men are dying for, it says the woman.

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I'll bet they are, ducky.

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Yeah, I know how they feel.

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Isn't she wearing something out of the invisible enemy?

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Yeah, I think she's wearing one of the bio nurses outfits.

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I'm going, what is this?

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What is this?

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The party would have been more entertaining than this 6 episode

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that we ended up?

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watching this soap opera?

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Well, in the disconsinuity guide, Cornell Day and topping suggests

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that would have been a, you know, like a terribly effective satire

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had the rest of the production not also been just sort of

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incredibly poorly acted and sort of cheap looking and dreadful.

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So, yeah, it does fall a little bit flat.

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I mean, there is, you know, there's some attempt to sort of paint

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the war, but they don't have the money for it, and they've got a

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few cardboard corridors and a few expres lying groaning on the

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floor, but it's not a very interesting portrayal of, you know, a

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war going on for ages and ages.

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It's so great.

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It's so gray on actress.

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It's so beige and not inhabited on the os.

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And then it's so like we're in the caves on the planet of evil.

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Which isn't a planet at all. something evil.

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Oh, but look, we're in, it's very stagey.

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Like the way it's staged with the whole set and the marsh were

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talking to the mirror and sort of talking out to the audience

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which I assume is some sort of big screen that he's looking at how

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the war's going or something like that.

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Am I wrong or not?

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Yeah, you do get a few reverse under the shoulder shots of the

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screen and the graphics on there. 6 ships.

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I actually quite like the marshal.

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I actually quite like his, actually quite like his portrayal and

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that sort of thing.

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It just gets very boring.

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He's got a good voice.

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Yeah, it's John Woodvine. you know, he's always, he's always good

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and he's always entertaining.

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And, you know, before the end of his life, he'll turn up in Poirot

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and Marble and things.

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I've been very quiet, haven't I?

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Yeah, you've just been watching it.

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You know what I'm going to say, don't you?

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You like this one?

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Oh my god.

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Mary Tan in this is the hottest thing ever.

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That woman in that white dress is just like, 0 my goodness.

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I mean, oh my goodness.

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I have to agree with you.

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And Mary is one of the major saving graces of the story.

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Despite the fact you can tell she's incredibly bored and she's

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just waiting for it all to wrap up.

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No, you know, I completely agree, but the story is cheap and it's

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tawdry and it's cliche and it is problem filled.

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But I can't help but love it.

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Really?

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So tell us about it.

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You know, I, but the thing is, I love it as a popcorn ironing

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movie doctor who, you know, it's not going to win any awards.

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It doesn't belong in the top 10.

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It doesn't belong in the top 100, top 150 might be pushing it.

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But it is entertaining.

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And I think for once, the Bristol boys have tried to stick with

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one plot.

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And it's the plot of the war between the 2 planets.

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The main problem is, they have enough plot for four episodes.

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Correct.

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And it's a 6 parter.

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I mean, they really needed to do 4 episodes and then have 2

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episodes of wrap-up with the whole season, rather than this, you

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know, at the beginning of the season, we had like a scene with the

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White Guardian, and at the end of the season, we've got a scene

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with the Black Guardian to wrap up the whole thing.

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I think you really needed more.

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Yeah, yeah.

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I think, I think, but I think the episodes which don't have any

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plot are the middle two.

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They are the worst.

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I mean, I actually came into this thinking this is really going to

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be a hard slog, and it is in the middle, and I had to watch it

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like, you may remember how I used to watch the Pertury 6 parties

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by watching it, like, one.

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Well, two... once every couple of months.

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Well, once in a while and then coming back to it.

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And I think for 1978. that's not acceptable.

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Yeah.

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The last time we had a story that was set all indoors.

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A 6 parter was walked.

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The monster of Peloton.

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And look how that turned out.

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And the one before that that had limited location where it was the

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planet of the Daleks. you know what I think of that.

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Yeah, I mean, there's very little prefilmed in this.

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There's the model sequences.

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The bloody stupid fire furnace walking sequence.

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Yeah.

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Oh, I don't know this with canine.

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That is so dumb.

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Was that the point of that?

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They just put him in there.

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He's going to fry.

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And then they cut to the doctor going, it's like they don't know

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how to write for K9, but they wrote his 1st story.

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Yeah, they created this.

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I think they want to.

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I think they want to give him a cliffhanger or some peril or

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something like that.

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But it doesn't end up being a cliffhanger.

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Although, we can look at this as fans with encyclopaedic knowledge

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and our scarves and our sonic screwdriver replicas and what have

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you.

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When I was watching this with Rod, who's not a huge fan.

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He doesn't remember season 18 all that much.

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So he couldn't remember how the 2nd canome was written out.

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So for him, not having the knowledge of what comes afterwards, he

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thought this could have been the end of canine.

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They would never have done that, though.

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Wouldn't they someone, though?

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Because the kiddies, you know, the kids love canine. they're not

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going to melt canine down.

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Well, the thing is, he's already had a pretty rough time of it

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this year.

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You know, in Pirate Planet, he gets shot and temporarily disabled

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in stones of blood, he gets whacked around, in Android Atari gets

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left in a boat.

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Yeah, I was sad about that.

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Yeah He sort of does that.

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He does that plaintively here on the conveyor belt.

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Land at the sheepish line.

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You remember Lambert the sheepish lion?

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Okay, going back to episode one.

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We're also introduced to Princess Astra.

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As a kid, I thought astronaut's fantastic.

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Like, we had to hold an AstraCar.

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We had a car called Princess Astro, my sister's car.

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And and and I thought she was just so wonderful.

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It was like ABBA, like she was the blonde one and then the dark

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one was very dark one.

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But can I just say?

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And I think that Lala Ward is pretty crappy in this.

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She's terrible.

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The 1st 4 episodes.

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She's really not great.

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She doesn't have any presence at all.

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And it's like, I don't really care what happens to her.

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But later on in the story, when she's actually with Tom and Mary

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in those sequences that she begins to lift, you can actually see

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her lifting to those 2 their performances.

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It's actually quite interesting to see, and I can possibly see

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then why Mary suggested her for the role and thus.

250
00:11:51.899 --> 00:11:53.460
Oh, did Mary suggest her for the role?

251
00:11:53.580 --> 00:11:54.000
Yeah, yeah.

252
00:11:54.059 --> 00:11:57.480
So Graham Williams had another casting crisis at the end of this.

253
00:11:57.539 --> 00:12:01.139
We have to talk about that next week because it's terrible.

254
00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:05.399
But this end of it is Mary Tamb was doing the same thing Louise

255
00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:07.259
Jameson did, which is halfway through the season.

256
00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:09.659
She said, look, I don't want to continue next year, thus giving

257
00:12:09.659 --> 00:12:12.840
Graham Williams plenty of time to figure out how to write her

258
00:12:12.840 --> 00:12:13.080
out.

259
00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:17.580
Once again, Graham Williams didn't believe her, like he didn't

260
00:12:17.580 --> 00:12:18.600
believe Louise Jameson.

261
00:12:18.659 --> 00:12:22.139
So, We ended up with this situation where Graham Williams was

262
00:12:22.139 --> 00:12:25.019
constantly begging her to stay and then coupled with that.

263
00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:28.379
Tom was starting to become more demanding and he was saying, I'll

264
00:12:28.379 --> 00:12:30.179
only stay next year if I have script control.

265
00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:33.840
This is where he came up with the idea of the talking cabbage on

266
00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:34.259
his shoulder.

267
00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:39.600
And Graham McDonald, who we heard last week, was ordering less

268
00:12:39.600 --> 00:12:41.580
horror and less comedy in the series.

269
00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:44.820
Graham McDonald actually ordered Graham Williams to fire Tom

270
00:12:44.820 --> 00:12:45.360
Baker.

271
00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:49.679
But at the end of this season, at the end of this season, let him

272
00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:52.139
finish out the season because that was the end of his contract, the

273
00:12:52.139 --> 00:12:53.580
end of this year, and then fire him.

274
00:12:53.639 --> 00:12:58.559
When Armageddon factor went before the cameras, Tom was not signed

275
00:12:58.559 --> 00:12:59.820
up for season 17.

276
00:12:59.940 --> 00:13:00.600
Wow.

277
00:13:00.659 --> 00:13:05.340
He did not officially sign a contract until after filming had

278
00:13:05.340 --> 00:13:05.820
finished.

279
00:13:06.419 --> 00:13:09.059
For one year or for 2 or for what?

280
00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:14.639
I believe after this, he signed up on a year-by-year basis. imagine

281
00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:16.019
if they hadn't contracted here.

282
00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:19.740
And then we'd start, we'd have to start a new season with a

283
00:13:19.740 --> 00:13:20.580
completely new doctor.

284
00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:22.620
With no regeneration.

285
00:13:22.740 --> 00:13:27.899
Peter Davidson in a league in Tom's costume, slamming his head

286
00:13:27.899 --> 00:13:29.220
into the console.

287
00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:31.139
It would have been it would have been a disaster.

288
00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:33.240
Now, not foreshadowing at all.

289
00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:38.159
Now, the thing is, they did come to, if you'd like a gentleman's

290
00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:40.919
agreement before signing the contract, that Tom would continue

291
00:13:40.919 --> 00:13:44.879
which is why they didn't film any sort of death scene for Tom or

292
00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:45.120
whatever.

293
00:13:45.179 --> 00:13:50.399
But they had to think about Mary's replacement, 1st of all.

294
00:13:50.460 --> 00:13:54.539
And I think it was in the BBC canteen of the final filming

295
00:13:54.539 --> 00:13:55.019
session.

296
00:13:55.080 --> 00:14:01.799
So you had Tom Baker, Mary Tam, Lull Award, Graham Williams, Andrew

297
00:14:01.799 --> 00:14:06.120
Reed, Michael Hazel, sitting around a table, and Graham Williams

298
00:14:06.120 --> 00:14:11.100
publicly, still begging Mary Tam to stay, and her saying, no, no

299
00:14:11.100 --> 00:14:11.279
really.

300
00:14:11.340 --> 00:14:12.659
I've done it for a year.

301
00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:15.299
The parts don't become weak. you know, the other week I was

302
00:14:15.299 --> 00:14:17.460
screaming at a bloke in a green costume.

303
00:14:17.580 --> 00:14:19.019
She probably wanted to return to acting.

304
00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:19.799
Yes.

305
00:14:19.799 --> 00:14:24.480
And he said, but who am I going to get to replace you?

306
00:14:24.539 --> 00:14:27.120
And she said, well, what about Lala?

307
00:14:27.179 --> 00:14:28.259
Lala's been really wonderful.

308
00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:30.240
You're going to say, what about John Woodfall?

309
00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:31.559
wig.

310
00:14:31.620 --> 00:14:32.519
You know, you'd be great.

311
00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:34.919
And she said, you can let down Lala's hair.

312
00:14:34.980 --> 00:14:36.779
She looks very different with her hair down than her hair up.

313
00:14:36.840 --> 00:14:40.080
You can just, and then she became aware that no one on the table

314
00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:44.639
was making eye contact and she's like, right, I'm not the 1st

315
00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:46.139
person to suggest this.

316
00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:49.860
And so that's when she really laid it on.

317
00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:54.659
No, you should absolutely get it in to try and get them to get

318
00:14:54.659 --> 00:14:57.480
Lala, which indeed we'll discover next year that they did.

319
00:14:57.539 --> 00:15:01.620
But it's interesting that Mary Mary stated that, you know, had she

320
00:15:01.620 --> 00:15:04.559
known they were going to film in Paris, she might have stayed on.

321
00:15:04.620 --> 00:15:09.000
And also, had they asked her to come back for a generation scene

322
00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:10.500
she might have actually done it, right?

323
00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:11.519
They never asked her.

324
00:15:11.580 --> 00:15:12.179
Yeah.

325
00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:13.200
I mean, that's insanity.

326
00:15:13.259 --> 00:15:16.679
This thing where, you know, they're taking great care with Joe and

327
00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:21.179
Sarah, but I don't think Graham Williams takes particularly good

328
00:15:21.179 --> 00:15:25.980
care about who the companions are or creating a coherent story for

329
00:15:25.980 --> 00:15:27.059
them or anything like that.

330
00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:30.000
And that's why Leila's leaving is so perfunctory.

331
00:15:30.059 --> 00:15:34.019
And that's why, you know, we don't, he doesn't he just doesn't

332
00:15:34.019 --> 00:15:35.159
really care about them.

333
00:15:35.220 --> 00:15:39.120
You know, he wants a lead woman in the cast who can do

334
00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:43.080
wisecracking and split the plot, but he's not very interested in

335
00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:44.220
making them a person.

336
00:15:44.220 --> 00:15:48.419
And the charm of the companions in the Williams era, I think, is

337
00:15:48.419 --> 00:15:52.620
entirely down to the performance of the 3 actors who are all just

338
00:15:52.620 --> 00:15:54.659
varying degrees of fantastic.

339
00:15:55.019 --> 00:15:59.759
Well, I'll agree with you about the actresses having to bring

340
00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:01.740
something to the table to make the characters more than what they

341
00:16:01.740 --> 00:16:01.919
are.

342
00:16:01.980 --> 00:16:06.720
I think I do think that Leila is not great in season 15, the way

343
00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:09.179
that she's written and Louise does a great performance, but the

344
00:16:09.179 --> 00:16:10.019
character's all over the place.

345
00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:12.059
I think Mary does the best of the 3 of them.

346
00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:14.759
I think this year she is, you know, she's really consistent

347
00:16:14.759 --> 00:16:15.120
throughout.

348
00:16:15.179 --> 00:16:18.720
You guys get to discuss Lila next year, but I think Lila takes a

349
00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:20.940
while to find what she wants to do with it.

350
00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:23.879
And when she finds what she wants to do, but she does a great job

351
00:16:23.879 --> 00:16:26.519
but I still think it does take a few stories, whereas I think of

352
00:16:26.519 --> 00:16:28.559
the 3 grand whims, female leads.

353
00:16:28.620 --> 00:16:31.980
The one thing I've discovered is that Mary Tams Romana is my

354
00:16:31.980 --> 00:16:32.519
favourite by far.

355
00:16:32.580 --> 00:16:33.539
Oh definitely.

356
00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:34.919
I'm not surprised to hear it.

357
00:16:34.980 --> 00:16:38.639
I love Lala and I think she brings something to the table that

358
00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:39.840
Mary doesn't.

359
00:16:39.899 --> 00:16:46.320
There's a real sort of impish fun, which is a nice break after all

360
00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:47.399
the ironic detachment.

361
00:16:47.460 --> 00:16:48.600
Not in this though.

362
00:16:48.659 --> 00:16:49.500
No.

363
00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:51.419
She's not impish She's terrible in this.

364
00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:55.320
And maybe it's because she's paired up with maybe the worst actor

365
00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:59.340
to appear ever on Doctor Who since Jenny Lair.

366
00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:02.879
He may actually be up for the eponymous journey Laird award.

367
00:17:02.940 --> 00:17:05.700
The shocking guard that she's paired up.

368
00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:06.539
Oh, him.

369
00:17:06.599 --> 00:17:06.900
Right.

370
00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:07.380
Yes.

371
00:17:07.980 --> 00:17:09.480
God, he's really bad.

372
00:17:09.539 --> 00:17:13.079
He's either John Cannon or Harry Fielder.

373
00:17:13.140 --> 00:17:13.920
They are the 2 guards in this.

374
00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:14.880
Oh, yes.

375
00:17:14.940 --> 00:17:16.559
In episode one, I've got a note here, I'm I think.

376
00:17:16.619 --> 00:17:19.559
The guard is rubbish, who accompanies company's Princess Astra.

377
00:17:19.619 --> 00:17:22.799
Yeah, so maybe she's acting down to his level at the beginning and

378
00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:25.440
she starts to lift it when she's in scenes with Tom and Mary

379
00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:25.920
later.

380
00:17:25.980 --> 00:17:28.920
Well, the thing is, like, at the end of episode one, when she goes

381
00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:32.579
into the room, she's clearly playing it, like she knows that she's

382
00:17:32.579 --> 00:17:33.480
being led into a trap.

383
00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:35.339
Yeah, none of that makes any sense.

384
00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:36.180
Yeah.

385
00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:39.000
Well, the thing is, it only makes sense if the guard is playing up

386
00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:41.579
to his dialogue because the guard's dialogue is, please, princess

387
00:17:41.579 --> 00:17:42.779
I'm sorry, you must go in.

388
00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:45.539
Like, so obviously the guard's in fear for his wife if she doesn't

389
00:17:45.539 --> 00:17:46.740
go in and that's why she does it.

390
00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:49.799
But of course, he expresses no fear or emotion whatsoever.

391
00:17:49.859 --> 00:17:54.180
So I think her performance in that is fine, but she's acting to

392
00:17:54.180 --> 00:17:55.380
something that's not happening.

393
00:17:55.440 --> 00:18:00.059
And of course, this is where my joke about gurads comes in

394
00:18:00.059 --> 00:18:00.359
earlier.

395
00:18:00.420 --> 00:18:01.859
Yeah, what was that?

396
00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:07.019
The designer for this episode, Michael Birdle, costume designer

397
00:18:07.019 --> 00:18:11.039
received a script and started designing the monsters.

398
00:18:11.099 --> 00:18:14.279
And so he came to the production meeting and says, oh, look, I've

399
00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:16.440
got these monsters and they're 8 foot tall and they're really

400
00:18:16.440 --> 00:18:19.619
scary and the director's like, I'm sorry, monsters?

401
00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:22.440
They're the shadows men, but you know, they're just sort of half

402
00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:23.099
maskings.

403
00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:25.200
And he's like, no, but there was no description for them.

404
00:18:25.259 --> 00:18:26.099
So I just made it up.

405
00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:27.000
The gurads.

406
00:18:27.059 --> 00:18:30.000
And they grabbed the script and that's a typo.

407
00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:30.900
It's guards.

408
00:18:31.019 --> 00:18:32.160
Brilliant.

409
00:18:32.220 --> 00:18:36.660
So this poor designer put in all these hours designing, the Gurads

410
00:18:36.660 --> 00:18:38.400
is, you know, the next quarks or whatever.

411
00:18:38.460 --> 00:18:43.500
And yeah, they ended up just being guards with little neck dangly

412
00:18:43.500 --> 00:18:45.480
pens as they're communicators and things.

413
00:18:45.539 --> 00:18:49.980
So, presumably big finish plans are trilogy of stories about the

414
00:18:49.980 --> 00:18:51.299
gurads, you know, anything.

415
00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:53.640
Featuring John Hurt and Jacqueline Pierce, that's correct.

416
00:18:53.700 --> 00:18:54.420
Yeah, cool.

417
00:18:54.420 --> 00:18:56.039
Back in episode one.

418
00:18:56.160 --> 00:19:00.240
The TARDIS, don't they send a missile to destroy the TARDIS and

419
00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:03.000
then the TARDIS immaterializes and the missile still gets

420
00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:03.599
destroyed.

421
00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:05.819
Like, that makes no sense to me.

422
00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:08.220
Am I sure they did it.

423
00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:12.180
They did it previously in the invasion and then subsequently in

424
00:19:12.180 --> 00:19:14.099
worries of the D. It's constantly happening.

425
00:19:14.220 --> 00:19:15.299
Yeah, yeah.

426
00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:18.240
The TARDIS disappears at the right moment.

427
00:19:18.299 --> 00:19:21.420
Just for the Miss Alter, touch the outer plasmic show and explode

428
00:19:21.420 --> 00:19:23.220
as the TARDIS fades away.

429
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:23.940
So thank you.

430
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:24.779
So do with the hands.

431
00:19:24.779 --> 00:19:28.799
You've now explained that to me and that's something that I'd be

432
00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:29.160
happy about.

433
00:19:29.220 --> 00:19:30.059
I'm happy about that.

434
00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:33.000
It happens later on, I think, too, in time lash or something like

435
00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:33.240
that.

436
00:19:33.299 --> 00:19:34.799
And I kind of don't get it either.

437
00:19:34.859 --> 00:19:36.359
So, okay, thank you, Brendan.

438
00:19:36.420 --> 00:19:37.380
I feeling much wrong.

439
00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:40.680
Speaking of the TARDIS, though, the cliffhanger for episode one is

440
00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:44.220
such a cop out, because they're running down the corridor and Mary

441
00:19:44.220 --> 00:19:46.740
runs fabulously down the corridor with the phone.

442
00:19:46.859 --> 00:19:48.180
Please, that's fantastic.

443
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:50.579
And then she gets the great cliffhanger.

444
00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:52.559
The TARDIS, it's gone.

445
00:19:52.619 --> 00:19:57.480
And then the 1st line after that in episode 2 is bedded under all

446
00:19:57.480 --> 00:19:58.200
that rubble.

447
00:19:58.259 --> 00:19:59.220
It like, well that's not gone.

448
00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:01.559
But then it turns out that, yes, it is gone.

449
00:20:01.619 --> 00:20:05.519
Because it turns up later on on Zeos with the planet of with the

450
00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:07.440
shadow. planet of things, isn't it?

451
00:20:07.500 --> 00:20:08.519
Yeah, it's on Zen?

452
00:20:08.579 --> 00:20:09.720
Or is it on the middle?

453
00:20:09.779 --> 00:20:12.299
It's on Zeos at 1st because that's where the doctor gets

454
00:20:12.299 --> 00:20:12.900
interrogated.

455
00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:14.220
Yeah, it's on Zeos.

456
00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:15.240
It's on Zeos.

457
00:20:15.299 --> 00:20:16.559
And then it goes to the...

458
00:20:16.619 --> 00:20:17.819
Can we talk about Zeos?

459
00:20:17.819 --> 00:20:20.940
and the disappearance of the Zeons, which is rather a metaphor

460
00:20:20.940 --> 00:20:21.480
with the audience?

461
00:20:21.539 --> 00:20:24.839
Well, apparently they weren't, they were going to exist.

462
00:20:24.900 --> 00:20:26.579
And then there were budget.

463
00:20:26.579 --> 00:20:30.240
Anthony Reid had to come back to the Bob Baker and Dave Martin and

464
00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:33.180
say, well, sorry, we don't have enough money. lose the zeons from

465
00:20:33.180 --> 00:20:33.599
Zeos.

466
00:20:33.660 --> 00:20:34.259
Yeah.

467
00:20:34.319 --> 00:20:35.579
And so we never find out what happened to them.

468
00:20:35.640 --> 00:20:36.900
There's no reason that they're not there.

469
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:37.559
No.

470
00:20:37.619 --> 00:20:38.759
I like the idea.

471
00:20:38.819 --> 00:20:40.920
And I kind of wish it was in the script because of course, you

472
00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:43.799
know, they Drax installs mentalis.

473
00:20:43.799 --> 00:20:46.920
We're not up to Drax yet. but anyway, Jackson stalls mentalists.

474
00:20:46.980 --> 00:20:49.799
And I rather like the idea that the zeons kind of say to him, oh

475
00:20:49.799 --> 00:20:51.900
so you've installed this thing that's going to attack them.

476
00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:54.420
But they might attack us and blow up the planet.

477
00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:56.039
Okay, everybody out. holiday.

478
00:20:56.099 --> 00:20:57.960
I think the whole planet's on holiday.

479
00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:02.220
Just like all of the Marshall staff in episode 5 and six.

480
00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:04.440
Have you noticed there's no one in the control room in the last 2

481
00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:04.920
episodes?

482
00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:06.180
on atrios?

483
00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:07.980
It's really populating episode one.

484
00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:10.859
They had tracking shots of them and their gray jumpsuits and all

485
00:21:10.859 --> 00:21:12.480
that sort of thing and then they just all...

486
00:21:12.539 --> 00:21:17.279
So they can't even afford just sort of warm-blooded people in gray

487
00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:18.000
jumpsuits.

488
00:21:18.059 --> 00:21:19.140
That's right Really?

489
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:23.759
Or to explain how American chap in episode 6 understand all about

490
00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:26.819
what the key time is and a time loop and how all of that works.

491
00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:30.299
Oh, well, you know, 65 episodes in, who cares?

492
00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:32.339
We've forgotten what happened in episode two.

493
00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:34.440
Speaking of which, we'll just go back to episode 2.

494
00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:35.039
Oh, yeah.

495
00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:37.500
So I didn't mind watching episode one.

496
00:21:37.559 --> 00:21:40.079
There's enough story there and you're sort of, what's going on?

497
00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:43.019
And then you get into episode 2 and K9 has to survive the whole

498
00:21:43.019 --> 00:21:44.579
recycling thing, which is dire.

499
00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:48.059
You suddenly get the foreshadowing of Princess Astra as a 67 of

500
00:21:48.059 --> 00:21:53.519
the key to time with them finding her little Coronet thing and

501
00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:57.660
using the tracer to sort of like, well, you know, come on, people.

502
00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:01.019
Come on, Romana. like surely you can work it out.

503
00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:04.380
But then you also get like, when a mushroom looks in the mirror

504
00:22:04.380 --> 00:22:07.559
and because the doctor must not die. yet.

505
00:22:07.619 --> 00:22:09.720
And that little thing on his neck and that sort of thing.

506
00:22:09.779 --> 00:22:12.779
I'm thinking, and as a kid, I kind of thought, that's sort of very

507
00:22:12.779 --> 00:22:15.119
like the master used to control people, you know?

508
00:22:15.180 --> 00:22:16.980
And I know it's not.

509
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:18.599
Did you think it was the master?

510
00:22:18.660 --> 00:22:20.220
I thought, well, maybe it's the master.

511
00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:22.619
I mean, I didn't know anything about, what was that other story?

512
00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:24.180
The deadly assassin.

513
00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:25.500
Sorry, I'd forgotten about that.

514
00:22:25.980 --> 00:22:31.140
So, yeah, it's all very stagey still, and I'm still enjoying

515
00:22:31.140 --> 00:22:33.779
episode two. besides the canine thing, which I think is a bit

516
00:22:33.779 --> 00:22:34.140
rubbish.

517
00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:38.160
It's a lovely conversation, the doctor and Romana about Zeos and

518
00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:41.099
the marshal. they keep pulling to one side and they have their

519
00:22:41.099 --> 00:22:43.920
little tete a tete together. you know what I'm talking about?

520
00:22:43.980 --> 00:22:48.180
So there's enough that's going on there that I quite like, but I

521
00:22:48.180 --> 00:22:51.299
just wanted to say that the marshal already makes no sense at this

522
00:22:51.299 --> 00:22:52.200
point in the story.

523
00:22:52.259 --> 00:22:57.180
And so he's trying to kill the doctor and then, like, mere moments

524
00:22:57.180 --> 00:22:57.660
later.

525
00:22:57.720 --> 00:23:01.920
He's the doctor's best friend and he's buddying up to him and

526
00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:03.359
wanting some help with the war.

527
00:23:03.420 --> 00:23:05.160
Well, because the shadows told him to.

528
00:23:05.220 --> 00:23:08.579
I know, but I mean, yeah, like he's mind controlled and so he has

529
00:23:08.579 --> 00:23:14.579
absolutely no kind of coherent personality or motivation or

530
00:23:14.579 --> 00:23:14.880
anything.

531
00:23:14.940 --> 00:23:18.539
I just think it's giantly messy and sort of plot driven.

532
00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:21.119
You know, there's no real reason for any of the things that

533
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:21.660
happen.

534
00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:25.559
It doesn't worry me that he goes from one to the other.

535
00:23:25.619 --> 00:23:29.880
The doctor works out something not right, you know, that sort of

536
00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:30.119
thing.

537
00:23:30.180 --> 00:23:32.039
So yes, it is plot driven and that sort of thing.

538
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:34.079
I guess we're getting from A to B to C.

539
00:23:34.140 --> 00:23:37.500
But there's so much getting from A to B to C.

540
00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:38.160
Do you know what I mean?

541
00:23:38.220 --> 00:23:40.740
Like it's, the whole thing is such a dull runaround.

542
00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:43.200
And there's no real progression of anything.

543
00:23:43.259 --> 00:23:46.740
But at this point, 2 episodes in, it's just about holding it

544
00:23:46.740 --> 00:23:47.339
together.

545
00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:47.880
It's okay.

546
00:23:47.940 --> 00:23:48.359
Yeah, yeah.

547
00:23:48.420 --> 00:23:49.680
It's about to fall to pieces.

548
00:23:49.740 --> 00:23:51.359
But at this point, I'm still going with it.

549
00:23:51.420 --> 00:23:52.440
You know, I'm still going with it.

550
00:23:52.500 --> 00:23:55.920
You know, when we've got their battle fleet of 6 ships going down

551
00:23:55.920 --> 00:23:56.339
to three.

552
00:23:56.400 --> 00:23:58.380
They're going, is this for real?

553
00:23:58.440 --> 00:24:00.839
Like, is that really a clever plot point or is that just stupid?

554
00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:02.160
Oh, it's boring.

555
00:24:02.220 --> 00:24:03.960
It's just a way of feeling in air time?

556
00:24:04.019 --> 00:24:04.680
Just dots.

557
00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:05.940
Just dots on the screen.

558
00:24:06.059 --> 00:24:07.259
They're playing asteroids.

559
00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:12.480
That's what it is So if we get to the end of the episode, the

560
00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:13.619
doctor goes into this transmit thing.

561
00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:16.619
And doesn't Paul Mary Tend have to try and run for the trans mat?

562
00:24:16.680 --> 00:24:17.880
It's a trap.

563
00:24:17.940 --> 00:24:19.619
Yes, doesn't she say that?

564
00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:21.420
And he hears it and then disappears.

565
00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:23.700
That's right, but she doesn't get to it in time because she has to

566
00:24:23.700 --> 00:24:27.059
do some sort of stage acting because the door will only close this

567
00:24:27.059 --> 00:24:31.140
slow, like so slowly and she's going, you know, slow running.

568
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:33.420
Like the Ogons in Day of the Daleks.

569
00:24:33.539 --> 00:24:36.240
Yeah, she sort of gets to it when it's still about a foot open, you

570
00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:36.480
know?

571
00:24:36.539 --> 00:24:37.440
ridiculous.

572
00:24:37.500 --> 00:24:39.779
And there's a slightly different reprise too, between episodes

573
00:24:39.779 --> 00:24:40.140
too.

574
00:24:40.200 --> 00:24:43.259
There's no doctor in part 3 mini part three.

575
00:24:43.319 --> 00:24:48.240
Yeah, and you don't get the crash zoom on Mary Tam going, doctor.

576
00:24:48.299 --> 00:24:50.759
Which is a bit of a shame, you know?

577
00:24:50.819 --> 00:24:53.579
There's always room for a cross zoom of Mary Tan.

578
00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:57.000
Every shot in this story should be a crash zoom of Mary Tann.

579
00:24:57.059 --> 00:24:58.559
I agree.

580
00:24:58.559 --> 00:24:59.099
They're much better.

581
00:24:59.220 --> 00:25:00.299
Now, the Shadow.

582
00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:03.960
He was not the master, but the agent to the Black Guardian.

583
00:25:04.019 --> 00:25:05.279
He has 2 noses.

584
00:25:05.339 --> 00:25:06.119
Yes, he does.

585
00:25:06.180 --> 00:25:08.039
One nose on top of the other.

586
00:25:08.099 --> 00:25:10.559
The actor's nose and then the skull head nose.

587
00:25:10.619 --> 00:25:14.400
I think he looks pretty good, actually, and he has a great voice

588
00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:16.859
but he's so generic.

589
00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:20.880
I mean, he's just sort of terribly boring, and part of it is the

590
00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:25.559
arc, you know, which is presented in its least subtle way as a

591
00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:27.839
sort of battle between good and evil.

592
00:25:27.900 --> 00:25:30.240
You know, we've got to get the key to time and give it to the good

593
00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:33.240
guy, so the evil guy doesn't get hold of it.

594
00:25:33.299 --> 00:25:35.339
You know, all of that's sort of very boring.

595
00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:37.319
And so the show can't help but be boring.

596
00:25:37.380 --> 00:25:41.640
I mean, you complained earlier, Todd, that he'd come up with the

597
00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:44.640
idea of just sitting there waiting for the doctor to turn up with

598
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:44.940
the key.

599
00:25:45.059 --> 00:25:48.420
I actually think that was a good way of keeping the Black Guardian

600
00:25:48.420 --> 00:25:50.940
out of the plot of any of the previous story.

601
00:25:51.059 --> 00:25:54.539
Well, I mean, that's a good point, Nathan.

602
00:25:54.599 --> 00:25:57.539
Otherwise, he might have had like the doctor versus some sort of

603
00:25:57.539 --> 00:26:00.779
agent, but yeah, there's no agents.

604
00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:04.079
Like they flirt with the idea very briefly in rebus operation

605
00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:04.440
don't they?

606
00:26:04.500 --> 00:26:06.359
Yeah, and Stones of Blood.

607
00:26:06.420 --> 00:26:09.359
Saire implies that she might know what's going on.

608
00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:11.039
It doesn't say it overtly.

609
00:26:11.099 --> 00:26:12.720
That never really occurred to me.

610
00:26:12.779 --> 00:26:15.359
Like as a kid or even now, like, you know, that they could have

611
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:16.319
put an agent in there.

612
00:26:16.380 --> 00:26:18.000
Like it just, he just sits there.

613
00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:20.099
And he literally, is the guy really old?

614
00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:22.019
Yeah, he just sits there.

615
00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:25.619
I think it was, I think it was about 68 or something like that.

616
00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:26.759
He was quite old.

617
00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:30.599
You know, for, you know, 70 standards.

618
00:26:30.660 --> 00:26:31.440
That's quite old.

619
00:26:31.500 --> 00:26:33.779
Yeah, I'm sure he was born in 1910 or something like that.

620
00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:35.220
So it was 67, 68.

621
00:26:35.400 --> 00:26:37.440
Has he been in anything else doing home?

622
00:26:37.500 --> 00:26:37.859
What his name?

623
00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:40.019
His name is William Squire.

624
00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:43.319
And he did have quite a long tradition, a bit like, he was a bit

625
00:26:43.319 --> 00:26:47.279
like Valentine Dahl, who will turn up at the end of this story as

626
00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:50.880
well, spoiler alert, but he had a long tradition of sort of

627
00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:54.180
playing characters with very mollifluous voices and what have

628
00:26:54.180 --> 00:26:54.359
you.

629
00:26:54.420 --> 00:26:55.859
But it's so boring.

630
00:26:55.920 --> 00:27:00.539
Like these surfaces where he just, he just talks about getting the

631
00:27:00.539 --> 00:27:01.140
key to time.

632
00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:04.500
And then walks a bit and then sits a bit and then he has his

633
00:27:04.500 --> 00:27:05.279
pathetic guards.

634
00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:09.900
Oh, it just drives my head in.

635
00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:12.480
Three and four are really a struggle to get through.

636
00:27:12.539 --> 00:27:13.019
They really are.

637
00:27:13.079 --> 00:27:17.460
What about the long scene of canine and mentalism beeping at each

638
00:27:17.460 --> 00:27:17.759
other?

639
00:27:17.819 --> 00:27:19.920
Why does B9 spin around?

640
00:27:19.980 --> 00:27:21.900
Like a spinning top.

641
00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:22.440
It's insane.

642
00:27:22.500 --> 00:27:24.900
And the doctor says I've never seen him do that before.

643
00:27:25.019 --> 00:27:27.000
Oh, no, not like 5 stories.

644
00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:28.619
The pirate planet.

645
00:27:28.680 --> 00:27:30.720
There is one good thing about that scene.

646
00:27:30.779 --> 00:27:33.779
And it's something my brother actually picked up on once when we

647
00:27:33.779 --> 00:27:35.099
were watching it together.

648
00:27:35.099 --> 00:27:38.339
And that's when Romana's really intrigued by them.

649
00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:41.460
Oh, it's like the dance of the bees. and Merritt's like, what are

650
00:27:41.460 --> 00:27:41.700
bees?

651
00:27:41.700 --> 00:27:43.740
Insects with stings, and it tells.

652
00:27:43.799 --> 00:27:46.619
The doctor is annoyed because someone is messing around with his

653
00:27:46.619 --> 00:27:46.799
dog.

654
00:27:46.859 --> 00:27:48.180
Really?

655
00:27:48.180 --> 00:27:51.359
Which, you know, which is a very human thing. like how dare you

656
00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:52.200
mess around with my dog.

657
00:27:52.259 --> 00:27:56.880
So that's why he says that line, the B thing, like so snappy.

658
00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:59.700
Because I've written in my notes here, why does Tom say it's so

659
00:27:59.700 --> 00:28:00.180
snappy?

660
00:28:00.299 --> 00:28:02.700
Sorry, guys, I just this is out there.

661
00:28:02.819 --> 00:28:06.839
This is the sort of um, level of intellect you have on the podcast

662
00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:07.619
when I'm around.

663
00:28:07.740 --> 00:28:10.980
But yeah, that's why it's because someone is messing about with

664
00:28:10.980 --> 00:28:11.339
his dog.

665
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:13.920
Maybe.

666
00:28:13.980 --> 00:28:16.500
Or, you know...

667
00:28:16.559 --> 00:28:20.460
As Tom has always said, what he loved most about, the doctor was

668
00:28:20.460 --> 00:28:21.359
working with other actors.

669
00:28:21.420 --> 00:28:23.099
What has he got for this recording session?

670
00:28:23.160 --> 00:28:27.839
He's got Merak and he's got Shap, who's played by David Harris, and

671
00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:30.779
by this point, David Harris retires from acting after the 1st

672
00:28:30.779 --> 00:28:32.700
studio recording block.

673
00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:36.299
Like, is he being something else, like other shows?

674
00:28:36.299 --> 00:28:41.160
Yeah, yeah. his Doran in that terrible Blake 7 episode Moloch.

675
00:28:41.220 --> 00:28:42.059
Oh, okay.

676
00:28:42.059 --> 00:28:43.799
I knew I'd seen his Villa's friend.

677
00:28:43.859 --> 00:28:44.759
He's a psychopath.

678
00:28:44.819 --> 00:28:45.420
Oh, of course.

679
00:28:45.480 --> 00:28:46.740
Sorry, just sit down there.

680
00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:49.140
We're just, okay, I know who he is now.

681
00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:51.599
Because his face was so recognisable.

682
00:28:51.720 --> 00:28:55.259
And I quite like the early stuff, but then it just, in episode

683
00:28:55.259 --> 00:28:58.140
four, he does some stupid, like, comedy prat form.

684
00:28:58.200 --> 00:28:58.799
Yeah.

685
00:28:58.859 --> 00:29:01.680
I'm just going, episode four, the whole thing is by episode four

686
00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:02.579
everything's falling apart.

687
00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:04.559
Who's the pilot in the ship?

688
00:29:04.619 --> 00:29:06.119
As Pat Gorman?

689
00:29:06.180 --> 00:29:07.859
Pat watch.

690
00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:09.299
He's been in a performance, isn't he?

691
00:29:09.359 --> 00:29:11.700
Yes, he's like a Silurian or two.

692
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:14.700
Is it Romana that suggests to the doctor to put the key to time

693
00:29:14.700 --> 00:29:15.599
together with a fake piece?

694
00:29:15.660 --> 00:29:17.819
Yeah, I really like that, actually.

695
00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:19.799
That's the one idea that I like.

696
00:29:19.859 --> 00:29:24.000
And I think it's the, it's very clever and it's like, you'd never

697
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:25.619
have thought to come to me.

698
00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:28.559
Like you put it together and then, you know, make a fake piece to

699
00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:29.940
have the whole thing going.

700
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:33.000
And I actually do like the whole idea of the countdown.

701
00:29:33.059 --> 00:29:34.799
It's very monotonous.

702
00:29:34.859 --> 00:29:35.519
Yeah, yeah.

703
00:29:35.579 --> 00:29:37.980
No, I think that that's actually pretty good.

704
00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:40.440
And given that, you know, we're actually not going to see the key

705
00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:42.059
to time actually do anything.

706
00:29:42.119 --> 00:29:45.900
You know, we've been searching for it all year and then it

707
00:29:45.900 --> 00:29:46.619
breaks.

708
00:29:46.680 --> 00:29:49.619
The doctor breaks it, you know, before he gives it to the

709
00:29:49.619 --> 00:29:50.160
Guardian.

710
00:29:50.220 --> 00:29:52.140
There's no resolution, nothing's going to happen.

711
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:55.680
So we do at least get to see the key in action.

712
00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:57.359
And that is quite fun.

713
00:29:57.420 --> 00:30:01.559
It is the most obvious use of polystyrene since some rocks fell on

714
00:30:01.559 --> 00:30:03.240
Joe's head on the planet Spirit on.

715
00:30:03.299 --> 00:30:05.339
It's really bad, polycyone, isn't it?

716
00:30:05.400 --> 00:30:08.339
I do have to say that Bob Baker and Dave Martin miss a trick with

717
00:30:08.339 --> 00:30:11.279
the key of time because something we've always said about them is

718
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:13.980
that they have so many ideas and they play with them and then they

719
00:30:13.980 --> 00:30:14.519
chuck them away.

720
00:30:14.579 --> 00:30:17.940
When they put the key to time together, their only time for it is

721
00:30:17.940 --> 00:30:22.380
to throw around a time loop, you know, why not have some other

722
00:30:22.380 --> 00:30:25.440
time travel things in there, why not get the video disc player out

723
00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:28.319
and run some time backwards and things like that?

724
00:30:28.380 --> 00:30:30.000
Could have been like another time monster.

725
00:30:30.059 --> 00:30:31.380
Yeah, why not?

726
00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:34.799
Well, they had used time loops before back in the claws of Axel

727
00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:35.400
which they wrote.

728
00:30:35.460 --> 00:30:38.099
So, you know, they're minding their own past, you know?

729
00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:39.839
Well, this is perhaps appropriate.

730
00:30:39.900 --> 00:30:42.900
Is it a good time to mention that this is the last time they write

731
00:30:42.900 --> 00:30:44.099
together on anything?

732
00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:45.960
They fight, don't they?

733
00:30:46.019 --> 00:30:47.579
They have a lover's quarrel or something?

734
00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:51.779
Well, all the reports are that they just decided after 11 years to

735
00:30:51.779 --> 00:30:52.619
write separately.

736
00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:55.920
And of course, Dave Martin is no longer with us, but Bob Baker

737
00:30:55.920 --> 00:30:58.680
says that there was never any animosity.

738
00:30:58.740 --> 00:31:01.920
It was just a mutual decision to dissolve the partnership.

739
00:31:01.980 --> 00:31:05.700
There is a solo story yet to come from...

740
00:31:05.700 --> 00:31:07.500
Bob Baker. that's right Which one is it?

741
00:31:07.559 --> 00:31:09.539
Nightmare of Eden.

742
00:31:09.599 --> 00:31:10.740
That's actually not so bad.

743
00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:11.460
Exactly.

744
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:12.900
That's a pretty reasonable script.

745
00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:14.819
But, and I haven't said this for a while.

746
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:16.079
We're getting ahead of ourselves.

747
00:31:16.140 --> 00:31:17.460
Okay.

748
00:31:17.460 --> 00:31:21.180
So going back to where we were in episode four, K9 gets his own

749
00:31:21.180 --> 00:31:24.119
little adventure to go on, which is boring as.

750
00:31:24.180 --> 00:31:30.539
We've got the Marshall on repeat, boring, but we do get the 2

751
00:31:30.539 --> 00:31:31.859
Romanas together.

752
00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:33.420
Well, not quite yet.

753
00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:38.220
It's really weird seeing Mary Tan and Lala Ward together on

754
00:31:38.220 --> 00:31:38.519
screen.

755
00:31:39.960 --> 00:31:42.539
It's just like Day of the Doctor.

756
00:31:42.599 --> 00:31:44.160
It's the day of Romana.

757
00:31:44.579 --> 00:31:46.680
Only that it happened.

758
00:31:46.740 --> 00:31:49.259
But it is weird seeing them both together.

759
00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:52.740
I just, it doesn't freak me out, but I just, it's just like, oh

760
00:31:52.740 --> 00:31:53.519
it's a strange.

761
00:31:53.579 --> 00:31:54.180
It's just weird.

762
00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:56.640
And they do bounce off each other quite well.

763
00:31:56.700 --> 00:31:59.400
Apparently they got on very well behind the scenes too.

764
00:31:59.460 --> 00:32:04.259
They both had a very wicked sense of humour, which led to Mary Tam

765
00:32:04.259 --> 00:32:10.500
christening Lal Award as Princess Disaster. and Lala Ward

766
00:32:10.500 --> 00:32:12.660
returning the favour with Trattoria Romana.

767
00:32:13.019 --> 00:32:15.000
That's brilliant.

768
00:32:15.059 --> 00:32:18.660
I like that I can see from your facial expression and the fact

769
00:32:18.660 --> 00:32:20.400
that we're talking about episode four.

770
00:32:20.460 --> 00:32:21.839
I know what you're about talk about.

771
00:32:21.900 --> 00:32:24.539
Well, episode five, because I just want to get through episode

772
00:32:24.539 --> 00:32:25.140
four.

773
00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:27.660
Does Drax turn up at the end of episode four?

774
00:32:28.140 --> 00:32:30.539
I know he's in episode five.

775
00:32:30.599 --> 00:32:31.380
Yeah.

776
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:32.339
Okay.

777
00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:34.019
So episode five.

778
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:38.339
We get another time lord in Drax.

779
00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:40.920
Who is Cockney?

780
00:32:40.980 --> 00:32:41.640
No, yeah.

781
00:32:41.700 --> 00:32:42.420
Yeah, Cockney.

782
00:32:42.420 --> 00:32:42.960
Cockney.

783
00:32:43.019 --> 00:32:45.000
And he's wearing what the hell is he wearing?

784
00:32:45.059 --> 00:32:46.380
Space clothes.

785
00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:48.480
Yeah, the space jumpsuit.

786
00:32:48.599 --> 00:32:50.039
Space shell suit.

787
00:32:50.099 --> 00:32:52.079
So I thought it was more like if you're on a motorbike or

788
00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:52.259
something.

789
00:32:52.619 --> 00:32:55.559
Maybe it's TARDIS as disguised as a motorbike.

790
00:32:55.619 --> 00:32:58.440
In the later book, the later choose your own adventure book by

791
00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:02.519
Dave Martin, search for the doctor, Drax's TARDIS is in the form

792
00:33:02.519 --> 00:33:03.660
of a pink Cadillac.

793
00:33:03.779 --> 00:33:05.819
Oh God, they're horrible.

794
00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:06.599
Thank you so much.

795
00:33:06.660 --> 00:33:08.940
So he calls the Dr. Peter Sigma.

796
00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:09.420
Is that right?

797
00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:10.980
Beta sigma.

798
00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:11.460
Fate.

799
00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:12.720
So what do you think of him?

800
00:33:12.779 --> 00:33:14.220
He's really terrible.

801
00:33:14.279 --> 00:33:17.819
See, the actor or the character?

802
00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:24.000
The actor can't do natural hand gestures or anything?

803
00:33:24.059 --> 00:33:26.220
or kind of talk normally.

804
00:33:26.279 --> 00:33:30.240
So it's like a really bizarrely affected performance.

805
00:33:30.299 --> 00:33:35.579
And it's clearly intended to be funny, but just really isn't.

806
00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:37.980
You know, like I've got no objection to the idea.

807
00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:42.420
I'm just watching Brendan's face because at the moment I finish

808
00:33:42.420 --> 00:33:45.240
this sentence, he's going to leaf in and say how much he likes

809
00:33:45.240 --> 00:33:45.720
right?

810
00:33:45.900 --> 00:33:47.640
You're right.

811
00:33:47.700 --> 00:33:53.640
So do I. See, I really like, I agree with you that the comedy is

812
00:33:53.640 --> 00:33:54.359
very laboured.

813
00:33:54.420 --> 00:33:57.720
So I think where the comedy comes from is the interplay with Tom

814
00:33:57.720 --> 00:34:02.039
and especially the reactions with Tom, because at this point, of

815
00:34:02.039 --> 00:34:05.039
course, Tom Baker and Doctor Who are pretty much one and the

816
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:05.279
same.

817
00:34:05.339 --> 00:34:09.239
So you've got the doctor B looking incredibly uncomfortable that

818
00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:12.960
someone is coming in and stealing his show because that is what

819
00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:13.980
Drags does.

820
00:34:14.039 --> 00:34:18.000
You know, he's, I think he is this likeable, he is a larger than

821
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:21.480
life character, and there is at least an explanation as to why he

822
00:34:21.480 --> 00:34:25.619
sounds so ridiculously halfpenny Dick Van Dyke Cockney.

823
00:34:25.739 --> 00:34:26.940
He was in prison?

824
00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:28.800
He was in prison in Brixton.

825
00:34:28.860 --> 00:34:32.579
So he had to learn to speak the lingo night. very demotic.

826
00:34:33.119 --> 00:34:35.400
I think it lifts the story.

827
00:34:35.460 --> 00:34:38.699
Yeah, and I like his performance generally.

828
00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:41.340
I think the character does some really stupid things.

829
00:34:41.400 --> 00:34:45.000
He talks about gala free, right?

830
00:34:45.059 --> 00:34:46.679
Everyone's pronouncing it gallery.

831
00:34:46.739 --> 00:34:47.760
They've been doing that for a while.

832
00:34:47.820 --> 00:34:51.599
But, you know, this episode, of course, canine is possessed in

833
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:54.539
this episode, of course, the doctor doctor.

834
00:34:54.599 --> 00:34:57.300
Like I mean, it's just so obvious that he's possessed.

835
00:34:57.360 --> 00:34:57.840
Yeah.

836
00:34:57.840 --> 00:35:01.139
And notes Draxicillinus.

837
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:02.460
Your silliness is noted.

838
00:35:02.519 --> 00:35:03.599
How does that go, Brendan?

839
00:35:03.659 --> 00:35:06.300
Your silliness has been noted.

840
00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:07.260
Very good.

841
00:35:07.320 --> 00:35:11.639
I've jumped past, of course, the Cliffhanger episode 45, which is

842
00:35:11.639 --> 00:35:14.340
the shadow going, the key to time is mine. mine.

843
00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:15.119
Ha, ha, ha.

844
00:35:15.179 --> 00:35:16.380
Yeah, that's really cool.

845
00:35:16.440 --> 00:35:17.280
Yeah, which is boring.

846
00:35:17.340 --> 00:35:18.780
And is that because he's left the door open?

847
00:35:19.739 --> 00:35:20.639
The key time is it.

848
00:35:20.699 --> 00:35:22.260
Yes, and then he goes to try and get it.

849
00:35:22.260 --> 00:35:25.500
And then we get those 3 flashes of light where he sort of goes

850
00:35:25.500 --> 00:35:27.840
flows back and back.

851
00:35:27.900 --> 00:35:28.920
What is that?

852
00:35:28.980 --> 00:35:29.460
What is that?

853
00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:30.119
I don't know.

854
00:35:30.179 --> 00:35:33.119
And then one of his mutes kicks off the carpet on the way into the

855
00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:33.659
Tartars.

856
00:35:33.719 --> 00:35:37.739
That's a famous blooper that's still being wheeled out by ITV for

857
00:35:37.739 --> 00:35:39.780
their TV gone wrong specials.

858
00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:43.980
You could just show the Armageddon factor, so I think they've gone

859
00:35:43.980 --> 00:35:45.119
on a special thing.

860
00:35:45.179 --> 00:35:50.099
Well, of course, you do get multiple Marys in this episode calling

861
00:35:50.099 --> 00:35:50.940
the doctor.

862
00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:51.900
Doctor, doctor.

863
00:35:52.019 --> 00:35:52.800
Doctor.

864
00:35:52.860 --> 00:35:55.980
Yeah, very seductive, but only for about 15 seconds.

865
00:35:56.039 --> 00:36:01.500
But that adds. 15 seconds adds up to the 2 episodes that are

866
00:36:01.500 --> 00:36:02.340
really good in this story.

867
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:06.300
Yeah, you've got to multiply those 15 seconds by the number of

868
00:36:06.300 --> 00:36:07.800
Marys involved in order to.

869
00:36:07.860 --> 00:36:11.579
I love and I love how horrified the doctor is by the by the

870
00:36:11.579 --> 00:36:15.539
concept of so many Romaldas telling him he's wrong in piloting the

871
00:36:15.539 --> 00:36:16.440
Tartars properly.

872
00:36:16.500 --> 00:36:20.820
She actually asks him in episode one, way back then, whether he

873
00:36:20.820 --> 00:36:25.019
didn't they teach him anything at the academy, which I think is

874
00:36:25.019 --> 00:36:27.000
really that's terrifically good.

875
00:36:27.059 --> 00:36:31.739
Their relationships developed, you know, such as it is.

876
00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:34.679
And of course, it's from episode 4 and 5 where we get those famous

877
00:36:34.679 --> 00:36:39.659
some BBC VT clips from the BBC Christmas tapes with lots of

878
00:36:39.659 --> 00:36:43.320
bloopers from Tom and Mary, such as how long till detonation

879
00:36:43.320 --> 00:36:44.099
canine.

880
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:45.059
Insufficient data?

881
00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:47.699
Yeah, you never, you know the answer when it's important to you.

882
00:36:47.699 --> 00:36:53.039
And and several bloopers where Tom and Mary flop their dialogue

883
00:36:53.039 --> 00:36:54.900
and just look at each other and go in for a kiss.

884
00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:56.280
I have seen that.

885
00:36:56.340 --> 00:36:57.659
Is he on the DVD?

886
00:36:57.719 --> 00:37:00.360
Yeah, it's on the DVD. from rehearsal footage because Mary's still

887
00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:01.619
got her hair up in rollers.

888
00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:04.860
Is it the one where they, where he asks, what, what do you want

889
00:37:04.860 --> 00:37:06.900
for Christmas doctor and he just looks over it?

890
00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:08.280
at Mary.

891
00:37:08.340 --> 00:37:09.599
Yeah, that's the one.

892
00:37:09.659 --> 00:37:11.280
That was recorded.

893
00:37:11.340 --> 00:37:13.139
What BBCBT was.

894
00:37:13.199 --> 00:37:17.039
It was a yearly tape shown at the BBC Christmas party and it was a

895
00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:18.659
collection of bloopers and also skits.

896
00:37:18.780 --> 00:37:22.079
So, for instance, Tom asking, Tom looking at Mary is what he

897
00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:25.739
wanted for Christmas, was a respectfully recorded skip, whereas

898
00:37:25.739 --> 00:37:30.780
you never know the answer when it's important, was a blooper from

899
00:37:30.780 --> 00:37:34.980
the technical rehearsal, where they could afford to have flubs and

900
00:37:34.980 --> 00:37:35.340
whatnot.

901
00:37:35.400 --> 00:37:40.260
Because, of course, another big problem in this story is with no

902
00:37:40.260 --> 00:37:44.219
location filming and almost no model or pre-filming, instead of

903
00:37:44.219 --> 00:37:49.320
having to record the equivalent, say, 35 to 40 minutes worth of

904
00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:50.820
studio in one studio session.

905
00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:53.340
They had to record 50 minutes.

906
00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:57.179
Okay, because they're shooting virtually 2 entire episode.

907
00:37:57.300 --> 00:37:58.139
Exactly, yeah.

908
00:37:58.199 --> 00:38:01.440
I mean, that's not an excuse, but that's just pointing out why you

909
00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:03.000
get moments like kicking up the carpet.

910
00:38:03.059 --> 00:38:09.360
It's also in this episode, I think, Merrick pulls down a whole...

911
00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:13.260
Yeah, very interesting shop with the camera lens and that sort of

912
00:38:13.260 --> 00:38:15.300
thing where it's not really a hole when they're looking down.

913
00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:18.300
I never quite understood how that works.

914
00:38:18.360 --> 00:38:19.619
Or what's even going on.

915
00:38:19.679 --> 00:38:22.980
But as a kid, I always remember, and when I came back to Zoe's

916
00:38:22.980 --> 00:38:25.619
remember, oh, he's the wet one that keeps calling out the Astor

917
00:38:25.619 --> 00:38:26.159
all the time.

918
00:38:26.219 --> 00:38:28.440
But it's actually quite late in the story that he starts doing

919
00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:28.679
that.

920
00:38:28.739 --> 00:38:30.300
But it always sticks in my mind.

921
00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:32.940
Like the last episode and a half, that's all he's doing.

922
00:38:33.000 --> 00:38:34.739
Yeah, he's not.

923
00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:37.260
I mean, he is a bit wet, as you say, alien, Nathan, but he's not

924
00:38:37.260 --> 00:38:40.260
too bad at the beginning and he gets that wonderful moment with

925
00:38:40.260 --> 00:38:45.539
Tom and Mary where, you know, he's in the room and Astra's

926
00:38:45.539 --> 00:38:47.880
disappeared and he's really, really distraught.

927
00:38:47.940 --> 00:38:50.280
And the doctor and Ramana are like, well, why?

928
00:38:50.340 --> 00:38:50.820
What's wrong?

929
00:38:50.940 --> 00:38:51.840
What are you doing here?

930
00:38:51.900 --> 00:38:52.619
Because I love her.

931
00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:56.820
And they both just look incredibly sort of, oh, oh, do that.

932
00:38:56.880 --> 00:38:57.900
That's a thing.

933
00:38:58.079 --> 00:39:04.739
So we can see in the episode, the doctor gets shot by Drax because

934
00:39:04.739 --> 00:39:07.980
the guard is opened.

935
00:39:08.039 --> 00:39:10.440
The Tana store is open and the guard's going to go in or something

936
00:39:10.440 --> 00:39:10.739
like that.

937
00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:11.340
Yeah.

938
00:39:11.340 --> 00:39:11.820
Am I wrong?

939
00:39:11.940 --> 00:39:13.260
Yeah, no, no, the door's open.

940
00:39:13.500 --> 00:39:13.980
The door's open.

941
00:39:14.519 --> 00:39:17.460
And so Jack's running during the guard, shoots the doctor and

942
00:39:17.460 --> 00:39:17.940
himself.

943
00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:19.679
But the gun shrinks anyway.

944
00:39:19.739 --> 00:39:22.559
Like, surely the gun should not shrink.

945
00:39:22.619 --> 00:39:25.199
Like, this is a country.

946
00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:26.219
Like, I don't understand.

947
00:39:26.340 --> 00:39:26.940
That's brilliant.

948
00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:28.139
That's never occurred to me.

949
00:39:28.199 --> 00:39:29.880
I'm going to say, this is insane.

950
00:39:29.940 --> 00:39:33.659
Like, this is one of their ideas, you know, and it's like, well

951
00:39:33.659 --> 00:39:36.420
surely the gun should, the gun should be that same size.

952
00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:37.440
You shot that.

953
00:39:37.500 --> 00:39:39.539
So why does why does that happen?

954
00:39:39.539 --> 00:39:43.440
They shoot themselves so that they can do the Trojan horse thing

955
00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:44.400
with canine.

956
00:39:44.460 --> 00:39:47.760
Well, they Tom actually, the doctor actually wants him to shoot

957
00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:48.420
the gun.

958
00:39:48.480 --> 00:39:51.539
And because he doesn't shoot the guard, they do the Trojan horse

959
00:39:51.539 --> 00:39:51.780
thing.

960
00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:54.539
Why does it why did Bob and Dave do it?

961
00:39:54.599 --> 00:39:55.320
Do you know what I mean?

962
00:39:55.380 --> 00:39:56.639
Because I've got an episode to go.

963
00:39:56.760 --> 00:40:00.539
Well, they haven't shrunk anyone this episode and they thought

964
00:40:00.539 --> 00:40:03.239
well, shrinking works so well last time we did shrinking.

965
00:40:03.300 --> 00:40:04.980
I think this is where the door is open.

966
00:40:05.820 --> 00:40:07.860
And then this is the light that affects the shadow.

967
00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:08.940
Why does the light affect the shadow?

968
00:40:09.000 --> 00:40:09.900
Because he's the shadow.

969
00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:10.380
Yeah.

970
00:40:10.380 --> 00:40:12.360
Like, he mentions that he's been waiting.

971
00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:15.360
Well, Princess Astra should be born.

972
00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:17.159
So does that mean he's been waiting for generations after

973
00:40:17.159 --> 00:40:17.699
generations?

974
00:40:18.719 --> 00:40:20.699
Thousands of years.

975
00:40:20.760 --> 00:40:21.480
It's so boring.

976
00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:23.219
But it must be so bored.

977
00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:27.480
He must be like those people on board the one 4 or whatever it

978
00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:27.659
is.

979
00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:28.260
What's that called?

980
00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:29.820
Uh, one C?

981
00:40:29.880 --> 00:40:30.599
Oh, one C.

982
00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:31.500
The Argo.

983
00:40:31.559 --> 00:40:34.619
Look, all I can say is like we get to this point in the story. and

984
00:40:34.619 --> 00:40:36.119
like it feels like a 1000 years.

985
00:40:36.179 --> 00:40:37.260
It really does.

986
00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:38.639
And it is boring.

987
00:40:38.760 --> 00:40:40.139
It's like, I just wanted to finish.

988
00:40:40.260 --> 00:40:45.239
The, the one thing I've said that I like the time loop and the, and

989
00:40:45.239 --> 00:40:49.139
the key to time thing, the other thing that I do like, I guess, and

990
00:40:49.139 --> 00:40:53.460
it doesn't really go anywhere is that Princess Astra is the 6th

991
00:40:53.460 --> 00:40:54.179
segment.

992
00:40:54.239 --> 00:40:59.099
And so they're all kind of statues and baubles and things up to

993
00:40:59.099 --> 00:41:00.059
this point, aren't they?

994
00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:00.719
Really?

995
00:41:00.780 --> 00:41:06.420
So we had Lump of Jethric, Planet Califracs, Pendant.

996
00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:09.179
Then we had a statue head.

997
00:41:09.239 --> 00:41:13.380
Yeah, then the symbol of Kroll's power, which we don't know

998
00:41:13.380 --> 00:41:16.380
whether it changed shape or not before Kroll ate it or if it was

999
00:41:16.380 --> 00:41:17.519
just sitting around as a crystal.

1000
00:41:17.579 --> 00:41:18.840
I mean it was probably an amulet or something.

1001
00:41:18.900 --> 00:41:19.559
Yeah, yeah.

1002
00:41:19.619 --> 00:41:21.599
So they're all amulets, but this one's an actual person.

1003
00:41:21.659 --> 00:41:25.320
And so there's a sort of moral dilemma here about, you know, like

1004
00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:27.599
to fulfil their mission.

1005
00:41:27.659 --> 00:41:29.880
They have to kind of sacrifice Astra.

1006
00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:32.219
And they do have an argument about that.

1007
00:41:33.539 --> 00:41:37.739
And it's probably the last bit of character development that Mary

1008
00:41:37.739 --> 00:41:43.380
Hammers Romana gets because she goes from being very aloof and not

1009
00:41:43.380 --> 00:41:46.980
really caring about people in the Ribots operation to now saying

1010
00:41:46.980 --> 00:41:50.400
you know, now we're murderers and we've killed someone and then

1011
00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:52.739
the doctor has to point out the bigger picture to her.

1012
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:56.340
So the roles from their 1st meeting are kind of reversed.

1013
00:41:56.579 --> 00:41:58.500
I wonder who wrote that.

1014
00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:02.579
Because like, okay, so Bob Baker and Dave Martin have delivered

1015
00:42:02.579 --> 00:42:05.280
this script, but whether or not they actually did that dialogue.

1016
00:42:05.340 --> 00:42:09.599
I mean, Anthony reads out the door as script editor, he's leading

1017
00:42:09.599 --> 00:42:10.019
the show.

1018
00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:12.300
Adam even does some work on episode six, doesn't he?

1019
00:42:12.360 --> 00:42:15.059
Douglas Adams does work at the end to wrap everything up.

1020
00:42:15.119 --> 00:42:17.639
The last scenes in the TARDIS, I believe, are his.

1021
00:42:17.699 --> 00:42:18.420
Yep.

1022
00:42:18.420 --> 00:42:21.780
And I think that's part of the reason why this story.

1023
00:42:21.840 --> 00:42:26.159
Maybe, I mean, it was always not going to be great, written by

1024
00:42:26.159 --> 00:42:27.599
these 2 as far as I'm concerned.

1025
00:42:27.659 --> 00:42:30.960
But, you know, when you're leaving a job in the last few weeks of

1026
00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:33.659
a job, you do what you need to do and you go, well, I'll leave the

1027
00:42:33.659 --> 00:42:35.460
rest, you know, for who's ever going to come after me.

1028
00:42:35.519 --> 00:42:39.000
And so, you know, Anthony reads decided to leave as good editor.

1029
00:42:39.059 --> 00:42:43.260
The banker boys have delivered a script that is workable.

1030
00:42:43.320 --> 00:42:45.780
How much work is he really going to do on it, you know?

1031
00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:48.360
Enough to make sure that it's perfunctory up to a point.

1032
00:42:48.420 --> 00:42:50.579
And then it's like, well, I'm leaving, you know?

1033
00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:54.840
It is, I mean, you know, we all think of the key to time as this

1034
00:42:54.840 --> 00:42:59.460
big overarching theme and, you know, all the DVDs get released in

1035
00:42:59.460 --> 00:43:01.500
one big box set and all of that sort of thing.

1036
00:43:01.619 --> 00:43:05.280
But I actually find it hard to believe that anyone working on the

1037
00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:07.199
show thought of it like that at all.

1038
00:43:07.260 --> 00:43:11.340
Yeah, I mean, Graham Williams had this idea that he wanted to do a

1039
00:43:11.340 --> 00:43:14.159
season long arc as soon as he came in, but he couldn't get it

1040
00:43:14.159 --> 00:43:15.239
together for season 15.

1041
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:17.940
But it's like he didn't really get it together here either.

1042
00:43:18.059 --> 00:43:21.119
You know, he just gives everyone this concept of, you need to have

1043
00:43:21.119 --> 00:43:24.059
this crystal in your story about the doctor and Romana are hunting

1044
00:43:24.059 --> 00:43:25.139
for, do whatever else you like.

1045
00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:29.219
Well, I mean, you know, the advantage of it is it gets the doctor

1046
00:43:29.219 --> 00:43:32.880
to do something, like he's in every place for a reason.

1047
00:43:32.940 --> 00:43:37.079
And, you know, the following year it will be, you know, the

1048
00:43:37.079 --> 00:43:40.380
randomiser, which just means that he turns up somewhere random

1049
00:43:40.380 --> 00:43:42.480
like he did for the 1st few years of the show.

1050
00:43:42.539 --> 00:43:46.260
So he's concerned about not having to provide the doctor with a

1051
00:43:46.260 --> 00:43:50.760
reason for being a new novel reason for being in the story every

1052
00:43:50.760 --> 00:43:52.500
you know, like every story.

1053
00:43:52.619 --> 00:43:56.940
But, you know, the fact that they hadn't thought about how they

1054
00:43:56.940 --> 00:44:01.860
were going to wrap it up that Anthony Reid didn't have an idea of

1055
00:44:01.860 --> 00:44:02.820
what was going to happen.

1056
00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:05.340
And the end is terrible, isn't it?

1057
00:44:05.460 --> 00:44:06.000
Yeah.

1058
00:44:06.059 --> 00:44:07.440
Look I agree with you.

1059
00:44:07.500 --> 00:44:10.320
It's like, they said, Tony, they said, this is what it's all about

1060
00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:13.440
you know, on this mission, blah, blah, blah, blah.

1061
00:44:13.500 --> 00:44:15.539
But then the document was never finished to say, well, how are we

1062
00:44:15.539 --> 00:44:16.079
going to conclude it?

1063
00:44:16.139 --> 00:44:19.139
They never really thought through that completing thing, which I

1064
00:44:19.139 --> 00:44:20.099
just think is so important.

1065
00:44:20.219 --> 00:44:24.239
I mean, they're going to make the same mistake in several years

1066
00:44:24.239 --> 00:44:27.480
time with the trial of a time lord where, oh, yes, we'll do this

1067
00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:29.579
trial and then, well, they haven't really thought about how

1068
00:44:29.579 --> 00:44:30.360
they're going to wrap it up.

1069
00:44:30.420 --> 00:44:34.320
It's just, you know, and it's just, it really undermines

1070
00:44:34.320 --> 00:44:35.219
everything that's been going on.

1071
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:37.679
I mean, it's been an entertaining season.

1072
00:44:37.739 --> 00:44:39.239
The individual stories have been great.

1073
00:44:39.300 --> 00:44:42.239
Even the idea of having them hunting for segments of the key to

1074
00:44:42.239 --> 00:44:45.179
time, that's quite good in the individual stories.

1075
00:44:45.239 --> 00:44:48.900
But when they get the key to time, we just want more.

1076
00:44:48.960 --> 00:44:52.199
You get that one's taken to where the doctors, you know, saying

1077
00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:54.840
well, the white guardians had enough time now to do whatever he

1078
00:44:54.840 --> 00:44:57.480
needs to do all the time to reset or whatever it talks about.

1079
00:44:57.539 --> 00:45:01.619
And then, you know, he commands the whole thing to stay where it

1080
00:45:01.619 --> 00:45:04.980
is and then by breaking the trace that the whole thing gets

1081
00:45:04.980 --> 00:45:11.639
scattered back, you know, to wherever, it seems pointless, I don't

1082
00:45:11.639 --> 00:45:14.460
know, pointless, but yeah, yeah, it does seem pointless.

1083
00:45:14.519 --> 00:45:18.599
The fact that the getting the key to time and having the guardian

1084
00:45:18.599 --> 00:45:21.780
fix everything is just dealt with in a line of dialogue.

1085
00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:23.699
And what's the deal with the Guardians?

1086
00:45:23.760 --> 00:45:25.380
Like, I mean, they can't touch them.

1087
00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:28.440
Who said, did they set them up as a little game for themselves to

1088
00:45:28.440 --> 00:45:31.559
find the jigsaw puzzle thing or is it some higher being above

1089
00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:31.860
them?

1090
00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:33.599
Like, there's questions that are unanswered?

1091
00:45:33.659 --> 00:45:35.820
It is described as guardian technology.

1092
00:45:35.880 --> 00:45:38.460
So the implication is that the Guardians created the key.

1093
00:45:38.579 --> 00:45:41.760
Just so they're like playing a game of chess and like, I'm going

1094
00:45:41.760 --> 00:45:44.460
to win this week. you know, there's a bit more goodness in the

1095
00:45:44.460 --> 00:45:47.760
universe and next people, I'm in charge, there's a bit more evil

1096
00:45:47.760 --> 00:45:48.119
happening.

1097
00:45:48.179 --> 00:45:51.239
Yeah, I mean, none of that makes any sense at all, does it?

1098
00:45:51.300 --> 00:45:52.619
Just no sense.

1099
00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:56.460
I have a few answers to some script questions you raised.

1100
00:45:56.519 --> 00:46:01.980
Now, 1st of all, a moral dilemma in the final episodes as we

1101
00:46:01.980 --> 00:46:06.179
discover that Astra is the 6th segment of the Keys time.

1102
00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:09.960
The original 6th segment in the Bob Baker and Dave Martin scripts

1103
00:46:09.960 --> 00:46:12.659
was the shadow of the shadow.

1104
00:46:12.719 --> 00:46:15.780
So the shadow zone shadow was 6 segment.

1105
00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:18.539
So he'd been waiting around all this time only to discover that

1106
00:46:18.539 --> 00:46:20.880
the segment was within him all along.

1107
00:46:21.480 --> 00:46:24.059
Anthony Reed changed that.

1108
00:46:24.119 --> 00:46:25.559
Thank you, Anthony.

1109
00:46:25.619 --> 00:46:26.460
That was a good move.

1110
00:46:26.519 --> 00:46:28.739
Don't thank him too quickly.

1111
00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:30.780
Oh, okay, what's happening next?

1112
00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:34.260
Well, you know how we were talking about, isn't it a shame that

1113
00:46:34.260 --> 00:46:36.780
there are no zeons on Zeos?

1114
00:46:36.840 --> 00:46:38.579
He accident, didn't he?

1115
00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:39.960
He acts them.

1116
00:46:40.019 --> 00:46:43.619
It wasn't in consultation with Bob Baker and Dave Martin.

1117
00:46:43.679 --> 00:46:46.139
He just cut them out of the script and substituted Mentalus.

1118
00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:49.440
I was saying, well, Mentalis wasn't even their idea.

1119
00:46:49.500 --> 00:46:53.519
No, it just seems like a Bob Baker and Dave Martin idea that it's

1120
00:46:53.519 --> 00:46:55.440
sort of pointless and over fairly quickly.

1121
00:46:55.500 --> 00:46:57.300
So he's done some work on this script.

1122
00:46:57.360 --> 00:47:01.559
Yeah, so literally the 1st 5.5 episodes are his and the last half

1123
00:47:01.559 --> 00:47:04.079
of episode 6 is Douglas Adams and Graham Williams.

1124
00:47:04.980 --> 00:47:09.599
And especially that last scene, because in Anthony Reed slash Bob

1125
00:47:09.599 --> 00:47:12.420
Baker and Dave Martin's version, it's much the same.

1126
00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:15.360
So the doctor disperses the key to time, blah, blah, blah, blah

1127
00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:15.599
blah.

1128
00:47:15.659 --> 00:47:17.699
Except the Guardian doesn't even show up.

1129
00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:22.380
The doctor just has his little bit about, you know, I can do

1130
00:47:22.380 --> 00:47:25.559
anything because I possess the key to time.

1131
00:47:25.619 --> 00:47:30.360
That is terrible. to give him a good slap before.

1132
00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:31.199
Well, that's all right.

1133
00:47:31.260 --> 00:47:32.099
Mary Tam did instead.

1134
00:47:32.159 --> 00:47:33.239
That's good.

1135
00:47:33.300 --> 00:47:34.920
I like when she waxing on the shoulder.

1136
00:47:34.980 --> 00:47:38.940
But yeah, they just had the doctor going, oh, you know what?

1137
00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:41.039
This is too powerful, snap and all over.

1138
00:47:41.099 --> 00:47:44.519
We see, I mean, even that would have been something, you know, like

1139
00:47:44.519 --> 00:47:50.519
the, the rejection of the, of the arc, the idea that there's

1140
00:47:50.519 --> 00:47:53.760
someone, like a white guardian who can be given the key to time

1141
00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:57.719
whether that's a coherent idea or even a desirable idea, some old

1142
00:47:57.719 --> 00:48:03.780
white guy, you know, in an unconvincing garden somewhere. you know

1143
00:48:03.780 --> 00:48:07.320
that he's the arbiter of what's good and right and he should have

1144
00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:12.059
ultimate power to, you know, impose his vision of the universe on

1145
00:48:12.059 --> 00:48:12.480
everyone.

1146
00:48:12.539 --> 00:48:15.900
You know, like a proper wholehearted rejection. of that idea.

1147
00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:20.400
Instead, you get this sort of muddy thing where maybe Valentine

1148
00:48:20.400 --> 00:48:23.519
dials, the Black Guardian or the White Guardian or something, and

1149
00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:26.519
it's all just a huge incoherent mass.

1150
00:48:26.519 --> 00:48:28.500
Look, at least he's there.

1151
00:48:28.559 --> 00:48:31.260
Like, I think it would have been terrible if there'd been no

1152
00:48:31.260 --> 00:48:32.340
guardian and it just ended.

1153
00:48:32.460 --> 00:48:33.360
Yeah, yeah.

1154
00:48:33.420 --> 00:48:33.960
I agree.

1155
00:48:34.019 --> 00:48:34.739
You know?

1156
00:48:34.800 --> 00:48:36.000
And of course, it does end.

1157
00:48:36.059 --> 00:48:38.460
It ends for this version of Romana.

1158
00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:40.079
She does get a nice line at the end.

1159
00:48:40.139 --> 00:48:43.199
I think Mary does, like, you know, the doctor talks about, nobody

1160
00:48:43.199 --> 00:48:47.039
knows where they're going, and she gets to say, not even us.

1161
00:48:47.099 --> 00:48:50.880
I just love that delivery and I think it ends on her, actually.

1162
00:48:51.000 --> 00:48:52.860
Oh, no, doesn't Tom ruin it?

1163
00:48:52.920 --> 00:48:53.940
I'm laughing into the camera.

1164
00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:56.940
Yeah, yeah, as usual, as usual. era.

1165
00:48:57.000 --> 00:48:59.099
I'm Perhaps this wish performant.

1166
00:48:59.159 --> 00:49:00.719
I wanted it to end on her.

1167
00:49:00.780 --> 00:49:03.059
I like how she tells him off.

1168
00:49:03.119 --> 00:49:03.840
Oh, yeah.

1169
00:49:03.900 --> 00:49:04.619
It's wonderful.

1170
00:49:04.679 --> 00:49:15.059
Look, this is dull and pedestrian and dire at times many times.

1171
00:49:15.179 --> 00:49:18.480
I still prefer to watch this story than Underworld and the

1172
00:49:18.480 --> 00:49:19.260
Invisible Enemy.

1173
00:49:19.320 --> 00:49:21.719
That's not exactly a ringing endorsement.

1174
00:49:21.780 --> 00:49:26.820
Maybe not, but it's Mary Tam that keeps me going throughout this

1175
00:49:26.820 --> 00:49:27.900
entire thing.

1176
00:49:27.960 --> 00:49:28.980
Yeah fair enough.

1177
00:49:29.039 --> 00:49:33.659
Well, as we say goodbye to Bob Baker and Dave Martin.

1178
00:49:33.719 --> 00:49:37.679
We've had perhaps appropriately into our Jenny Laird awards for

1179
00:49:37.679 --> 00:49:39.119
most puzzling creative choice.

1180
00:49:39.179 --> 00:49:41.699
So, gentlemen, are we going to shoot fish in a barrel or are we

1181
00:49:41.699 --> 00:49:42.539
going to go for someone else?

1182
00:49:42.840 --> 00:49:44.579
Who are we shooting?

1183
00:49:44.639 --> 00:49:46.559
Bob Baker and Dave Martin.

1184
00:49:46.619 --> 00:49:48.420
Would be the obvious choice.

1185
00:49:49.500 --> 00:49:53.400
I'm going to go out there and actually choose someone who I've

1186
00:49:53.400 --> 00:49:57.659
spent the last 12 weeks of our podcast vehemently defending for

1187
00:49:57.659 --> 00:49:58.199
the most part.

1188
00:49:58.260 --> 00:50:02.219
I'm going to choose Graham Williams because he had this.

1189
00:50:02.280 --> 00:50:05.039
He had this vision for Doctor Who, where he wanted the doctor to

1190
00:50:05.039 --> 00:50:07.980
have responsibility and he wanted the doctor to have a mission and

1191
00:50:07.980 --> 00:50:11.880
he found it morally abhorrent, but the doctor could just goof off

1192
00:50:11.880 --> 00:50:14.579
around the universe without having any sort of mission.

1193
00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:18.900
But he himself doesn't come up with a coherent vision for that.

1194
00:50:18.960 --> 00:50:23.400
You know, he doesn't come up with a proper story arc.

1195
00:50:23.460 --> 00:50:26.820
You know, even if he'd just come up with the setup and come up

1196
00:50:26.820 --> 00:50:29.340
with the last 2 episodes, as you suggest, Todd.

1197
00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:32.099
You know, we really should have had 2 episodes to wind this all

1198
00:50:32.099 --> 00:50:32.340
up.

1199
00:50:32.400 --> 00:50:34.559
Two episodes with the Guardians, you know?

1200
00:50:34.619 --> 00:50:36.960
In our location work, something.

1201
00:50:37.019 --> 00:50:37.739
Yeah, yeah.

1202
00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:38.099
Yeah.

1203
00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:41.940
Put us in a proper garden, give us a sort of half illusory

1204
00:50:41.940 --> 00:50:45.179
sequence, like the deadly assassin part three.

1205
00:50:45.239 --> 00:50:47.159
Give us something, Graham.

1206
00:50:47.219 --> 00:50:50.460
I know you were under a lot of pressure, and of course, he's no

1207
00:50:50.460 --> 00:50:51.059
longer with us.

1208
00:50:51.059 --> 00:50:54.179
And I love his work on the series.

1209
00:50:54.239 --> 00:50:58.380
I love his individual stories, but I think maybe even he realised

1210
00:50:58.380 --> 00:51:00.960
that a story arc was a bad idea because of course he doesn't

1211
00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:02.099
develop one for next year.

1212
00:51:02.340 --> 00:51:08.340
So, sadly, as much as I love him, Graham Williams is my choice of

1213
00:51:08.340 --> 00:51:10.920
my Jenny Laird, the most puzzling creative choice.

1214
00:51:11.280 --> 00:51:14.820
I'm going to give it to Anthony Reed, a script editor who I

1215
00:51:14.820 --> 00:51:15.780
generally really love.

1216
00:51:15.900 --> 00:51:20.760
Um, but the fact that he employed Bob Baker and Dave Martin to

1217
00:51:20.760 --> 00:51:23.940
write the conclusion of this season.

1218
00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:24.780
Why?

1219
00:51:24.840 --> 00:51:25.500
Just why?

1220
00:51:25.559 --> 00:51:26.639
Couldn't you've got somebody else?

1221
00:51:26.699 --> 00:51:28.199
I mean, really, honestly, why?

1222
00:51:28.260 --> 00:51:30.960
Nathan, of course, is gonna come up with something far more

1223
00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:32.099
interesting and witty, aren't you?

1224
00:51:32.159 --> 00:51:33.480
I wouldn't count on it.

1225
00:51:33.539 --> 00:51:37.260
It's either that, or I have to give it to the Tarim would beast.

1226
00:51:37.320 --> 00:51:40.619
I did consider that.

1227
00:51:40.679 --> 00:51:43.920
But at least with the Torren Woodbeast, you know, they minimised

1228
00:51:43.920 --> 00:51:45.420
its exposure as much as possible.

1229
00:51:45.599 --> 00:51:52.019
Or I might give it to the sunset behind Tom and Mary in the stones

1230
00:51:52.019 --> 00:51:53.579
of blood when they're on the top of the cliff.

1231
00:51:53.639 --> 00:51:54.539
That's pretty incredible.

1232
00:51:54.599 --> 00:51:55.739
The constantly moving sunset.

1233
00:51:56.940 --> 00:51:59.699
It's too much methane in the atmosphere.

1234
00:51:59.760 --> 00:52:03.239
Yes, I'm giving mine to Richard McMahon Smith.

1235
00:52:03.300 --> 00:52:05.699
He is the...

1236
00:52:05.760 --> 00:52:09.780
He is the designer on the Armageddon factor.

1237
00:52:10.019 --> 00:52:11.940
The set designer.

1238
00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:15.599
Yeah, we're just the designer, you know, not makeup or anything

1239
00:52:15.599 --> 00:52:16.019
like that.

1240
00:52:16.079 --> 00:52:20.760
But season 15 really showed its budgetary limitations at times

1241
00:52:20.760 --> 00:52:25.019
with things like the invisible enemy and obviously underworld.

1242
00:52:25.079 --> 00:52:30.300
But season 16 hasn't really suffered from that until maybe Power

1243
00:52:30.300 --> 00:52:35.699
of Kroll, although that has, you know, like lavish location work.

1244
00:52:35.760 --> 00:52:39.780
Here we're stuck in a series of, as Todd pointed out, really very

1245
00:52:39.780 --> 00:52:41.639
boring corridors.

1246
00:52:41.699 --> 00:52:45.119
And there's really nothing sort of remarkable or memorable about

1247
00:52:45.119 --> 00:52:47.400
the production, really, to speak of at all.

1248
00:52:47.460 --> 00:52:51.179
I think it's a really drab way to end what has visually been a

1249
00:52:51.179 --> 00:52:55.920
really fun and, you know, generally successful season.

1250
00:52:55.980 --> 00:53:00.000
There's a great moment on the commentary of the Armageddon

1251
00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:00.420
factor.

1252
00:53:00.539 --> 00:53:03.719
This isn't my recommendation, but do listen to it if you can.

1253
00:53:03.780 --> 00:53:07.920
The Mary Tam, John Woodvine and Michael Hayes commentary.

1254
00:53:08.039 --> 00:53:11.280
I think at the end of episode 6.

1255
00:53:11.340 --> 00:53:15.179
Mary Turn says, well, that was almost as knackering as making the

1256
00:53:15.179 --> 00:53:16.320
Armageddon.

1257
00:53:16.860 --> 00:53:18.960
Oh God, I love her.

1258
00:53:19.019 --> 00:53:22.800
I think she's on a 2nd commentary on it with Tom as well.

1259
00:53:22.860 --> 00:53:24.420
Because that was one of the ones.

1260
00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:26.460
That's one of the ones on the UK edition, which has 2

1261
00:53:26.460 --> 00:53:26.940
commentaries.

1262
00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:30.300
Okay, my pick for this season.

1263
00:53:30.360 --> 00:53:34.139
I was tempted to go with Big Finisher's key to time trilogy.

1264
00:53:34.199 --> 00:53:35.519
That's the number two, right?

1265
00:53:35.579 --> 00:53:36.480
That's the number two.

1266
00:53:36.539 --> 00:53:37.860
Please don't, because it's awful.

1267
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:38.760
Oh sorry.

1268
00:53:38.820 --> 00:53:40.440
I quite enjoy it.

1269
00:53:40.500 --> 00:53:41.519
I understand why people don't.

1270
00:53:41.579 --> 00:53:42.659
It's very frivolous.

1271
00:53:42.719 --> 00:53:46.019
It's like shoving Peter Davidson into a bunch of season 17

1272
00:53:46.019 --> 00:53:46.619
stories.

1273
00:53:46.679 --> 00:53:48.179
So it doesn't...

1274
00:53:48.179 --> 00:53:48.719
What is it?

1275
00:53:48.780 --> 00:53:49.320
the premise?

1276
00:53:49.380 --> 00:53:52.380
The premise is that...

1277
00:53:52.380 --> 00:53:53.400
The time is back.

1278
00:53:53.460 --> 00:53:56.039
Yeah, when the doctor broke up the key to time.

1279
00:53:56.159 --> 00:53:58.199
Its work had not been done.

1280
00:53:58.260 --> 00:54:02.039
So he needs to go out and find it again, but instead of having...

1281
00:54:02.039 --> 00:54:05.280
Pete needs to go out and find it again and he's paired with a new

1282
00:54:05.280 --> 00:54:09.539
companion who is a human tracer called Amy and she's also got a

1283
00:54:09.539 --> 00:54:10.500
sister, Zara.

1284
00:54:10.559 --> 00:54:11.940
So we've got the A to Zed thing again.

1285
00:54:12.539 --> 00:54:14.579
It's all coming back to me.

1286
00:54:14.639 --> 00:54:16.619
It was a horrible nightmare listening to it.

1287
00:54:16.739 --> 00:54:19.559
Oh, they ended up going onto their own series called Graceless

1288
00:54:19.559 --> 00:54:20.639
which one several awards.

1289
00:54:20.699 --> 00:54:22.679
What, from Big Finish themselves?

1290
00:54:22.739 --> 00:54:23.880
Yeah, from Big Finish.

1291
00:54:23.940 --> 00:54:25.260
Won their own awards.

1292
00:54:25.320 --> 00:54:25.739
Yes.

1293
00:54:25.800 --> 00:54:27.900
No, no, not from...

1294
00:54:27.960 --> 00:54:29.039
Sorry, I set that up.

1295
00:54:29.099 --> 00:54:32.820
Simon Garrier, if you're listening, I think you're lovely and a

1296
00:54:32.820 --> 00:54:33.780
very talented writer.

1297
00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:40.380
Yes, also, and also Lala Ward comes back in that. as the lord

1298
00:54:40.380 --> 00:54:40.860
president.

1299
00:54:40.920 --> 00:54:44.400
So, um, They are good.

1300
00:54:44.460 --> 00:54:51.900
But what I'm going to recommend over that is the last Doctor Who

1301
00:54:51.900 --> 00:54:55.139
work that Mary Tam undertook before she passed away.

1302
00:54:55.199 --> 00:55:01.019
She did a series of 72 parters with Tom and John Leeson.

1303
00:55:01.079 --> 00:55:04.440
I'm going to recommend one in particular, and that's the first one

1304
00:55:04.440 --> 00:55:06.300
called the Auntie Matter.

1305
00:55:07.019 --> 00:55:13.139
And it's a pum, and it's the doctor in Romana, but particularly

1306
00:55:13.139 --> 00:55:20.159
Romana, thrust into a PG Woodhouse, Jeeves and Worcester style

1307
00:55:20.159 --> 00:55:21.840
1920s comedy.

1308
00:55:21.900 --> 00:55:22.679
Wow.

1309
00:55:22.739 --> 00:55:25.380
Also featuring Julia McKenzie.

1310
00:55:25.440 --> 00:55:26.460
Oh really?

1311
00:55:26.519 --> 00:55:27.420
Really?

1312
00:55:27.420 --> 00:55:28.679
The Auntie Matter.

1313
00:55:28.739 --> 00:55:29.699
The Auntie Matter.

1314
00:55:29.820 --> 00:55:31.500
It's the only one I haven't listened to of that range.

1315
00:55:31.500 --> 00:55:32.400
Oh, for some reason.

1316
00:55:32.460 --> 00:55:33.239
I don't have it.

1317
00:55:33.300 --> 00:55:33.599
Yeah.

1318
00:55:33.659 --> 00:55:34.199
Do listen to it.

1319
00:55:34.260 --> 00:55:35.639
It's the 1st in...

1320
00:55:35.699 --> 00:55:39.900
I mean, they're all great because it's all Mary and it, the whole

1321
00:55:39.900 --> 00:55:44.880
series really seeks to redress what Mary thought was a weakness in

1322
00:55:44.880 --> 00:55:47.460
her character in that they didn't explore the fact that she was

1323
00:55:47.460 --> 00:55:50.340
alien and she was psychic and she was incredibly clever and all

1324
00:55:50.340 --> 00:55:51.059
the stories do that.

1325
00:55:51.119 --> 00:55:53.940
There's a story that pairs her up with Henry Gordon, Jago.

1326
00:55:54.059 --> 00:55:55.199
Of course.

1327
00:55:55.800 --> 00:55:59.880
And it also addresses the fact that, you know, she's a beautiful

1328
00:55:59.880 --> 00:56:00.780
woman probably.

1329
00:56:00.840 --> 00:56:03.480
So there are several men over the course of the series who are

1330
00:56:03.480 --> 00:56:07.800
interested and she just shuts them down brilliantly in each case.

1331
00:56:07.860 --> 00:56:12.360
So any of those are good, but the Auntie Matter is my pick from

1332
00:56:12.360 --> 00:56:12.719
that range.

1333
00:56:13.440 --> 00:56:17.039
Well, look, I recommend Mary Tam in the Steelers from Safe from

1334
00:56:17.039 --> 00:56:20.219
the companion chronicles from Big Finish.

1335
00:56:20.280 --> 00:56:21.539
She also does another one as well.

1336
00:56:21.599 --> 00:56:25.559
You know, it's just to hear more of her as Romana, just

1337
00:56:25.559 --> 00:56:26.099
brilliant.

1338
00:56:26.159 --> 00:56:29.880
And both those audios are available for download from the big

1339
00:56:29.880 --> 00:56:30.780
finish website.

1340
00:56:30.960 --> 00:56:33.659
The downloads are very affordable.

1341
00:56:33.719 --> 00:56:36.780
So, for instance, the antimatter, which is a full cast, one hour

1342
00:56:36.780 --> 00:56:42.599
play, is $9 to download, Australian, and the Steelers from Safe

1343
00:56:42.599 --> 00:56:45.360
which is Mary Tam giving a tour divorce playing about 10 different

1344
00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:49.619
people, is only $8 Australian to download.

1345
00:56:49.619 --> 00:56:52.019
I'm going to pick something a bit different.

1346
00:56:52.079 --> 00:56:57.539
One of my favourite websites is avclub.com, the Onion AV club.

1347
00:56:57.599 --> 00:57:01.679
So you know the onion, which is a sort of satirical newspaper, uh

1348
00:57:01.679 --> 00:57:03.179
that's published in America.

1349
00:57:03.239 --> 00:57:05.340
It's sort of terribly funny.

1350
00:57:05.400 --> 00:57:08.940
They have some companion insights and one of them is the AV club.

1351
00:57:09.000 --> 00:57:15.300
And I think the AV club is really some of the cleverest writing

1352
00:57:15.300 --> 00:57:19.019
about, you know, TV and movies and things like that on the

1353
00:57:19.019 --> 00:57:19.559
internet.

1354
00:57:19.619 --> 00:57:23.159
And so it's a place I go fairly frequently for news and things.

1355
00:57:23.219 --> 00:57:28.380
And they have for a while had someone reviewing classic Doctor

1356
00:57:28.380 --> 00:57:28.800
Who.

1357
00:57:28.800 --> 00:57:31.500
And he stopped recently recently.

1358
00:57:31.559 --> 00:57:32.880
I'm not quite sure why.

1359
00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:37.920
And he was just going from story to story, you know, more or less

1360
00:57:37.920 --> 00:57:42.539
at random, but having like an American website where a fairly

1361
00:57:42.539 --> 00:57:46.079
insightful reviewer, and I can't remember his name, but I will put

1362
00:57:46.079 --> 00:57:49.980
it in the show notes, you know, writes intelligent commentary on

1363
00:57:49.980 --> 00:57:52.320
Doctor Who from a position of knowledge.

1364
00:57:52.380 --> 00:57:54.420
You know, that's that's pretty rare.

1365
00:57:54.539 --> 00:57:57.599
And one of the great things about the AV club is that the

1366
00:57:57.599 --> 00:58:01.019
commenters are really funny and really clever.

1367
00:58:01.139 --> 00:58:04.619
So it's not one of those, it's not like a YouTube comment thread

1368
00:58:04.619 --> 00:58:08.039
where you want to, you know, go and purge after reading it.

1369
00:58:08.099 --> 00:58:13.139
It's full of just really witty, clever people commenting on Doctor

1370
00:58:13.139 --> 00:58:15.300
Who and so it's really fun.

1371
00:58:15.420 --> 00:58:17.340
They continue to review the new series.

1372
00:58:17.400 --> 00:58:20.159
I've just recently read a couple of those.

1373
00:58:20.219 --> 00:58:23.099
A friend of mine sent a link to me and I thought they were very

1374
00:58:23.099 --> 00:58:23.340
good.

1375
00:58:23.400 --> 00:58:24.360
So, yeah.

1376
00:58:24.420 --> 00:58:27.000
But it's a good website generally, you know, not just for Doctor

1377
00:58:27.000 --> 00:58:30.000
Who, but for just following any sort of pop culture, both English

1378
00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:31.679
and American, so I can really recommend it.

1379
00:58:47.159 --> 00:58:50.760
Thankfully, dear listener, that's all the time we have for the

1380
00:58:50.760 --> 00:58:53.159
Armageddon factor before we get locked in a time loop.

1381
00:58:53.219 --> 00:58:56.099
Thankfully, dearness, no, that's all the time we have for the

1382
00:58:56.099 --> 00:58:58.500
Armageddon factor before we get locked in a time loop.

1383
00:58:58.559 --> 00:59:04.380
We will be back next week to discuss Destiny of the Daleks.

1384
00:59:04.440 --> 00:59:08.460
Todd, you will, of course, rejoin us 6 weeks later to discuss the

1385
00:59:08.460 --> 00:59:10.440
leisure hive, which you look very happy about.

1386
00:59:10.800 --> 00:59:13.139
In the 1980s.

1387
00:59:13.199 --> 00:59:14.219
Yay!

1388
00:59:14.219 --> 00:59:17.219
Well, you are from 1980.

1389
00:59:17.400 --> 00:59:21.960
So Richard will be rejoining us for possibly the campus season of

1390
00:59:21.960 --> 00:59:22.920
Doctor Who ever.

1391
00:59:22.980 --> 00:59:26.219
That's also taking into account later appearances by John Simm.

1392
00:59:26.400 --> 00:59:31.679
Until then, please check us out online at flight through entirety

1393
00:59:30.719 --> 00:59:35.340
com, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE

1394
00:59:35.340 --> 00:59:36.480
podcast on Twitter.

1395
00:59:36.539 --> 00:59:38.519
And don't forget, over on Bond Finger.

1396
00:59:38.639 --> 00:59:41.699
We now have commentaries for Dr. No from Russia with Love

1397
00:59:41.699 --> 00:59:45.179
Goldfinger Thunderball, and you only live twice.

1398
00:59:45.239 --> 00:59:49.019
Until then, may none of your girads be 8 foot tall.

1399
00:59:49.079 --> 00:59:50.820
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1400
00:59:50.880 --> 00:59:51.420
Good night.

1401
00:59:51.480 --> 00:59:52.139
See you soon.

1402
00:59:55.260 --> 00:59:56.880
That was flat through entirety.

1403
00:59:56.940 --> 00:59:59.519
Todd BLD, Nathan Buckman, Brendan Jones.

1404
00:59:59.639 --> 01:00:03.420
This episode, Holden Astra, was recorded on the 7th of November

1405
01:00:03.420 --> 01:00:04.260
2015.

1406
01:00:04.500 --> 01:00:07.380
The next episode will be released on January 17th.

1407
01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:10.860
We respectfully dedicate this episode to the memory of Mary 10 and

1408
01:00:10.860 --> 01:00:14.340
her husband, Marcus Ringrose, who both passed away in 2012.

1409
01:00:18.480 --> 01:00:22.139
And that's including appearances by John Sim.

1410
01:00:23.760 --> 01:00:29.099
That's including any later appearance, that's, that's...