WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:27:34 1 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:39.060 Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast with 3 hearts, one for casual, one for best, and one for Saturday night. 2 00:00:39.119 --> 00:00:39.719 I'm Brendan. 3 00:00:39.780 --> 00:00:40.500 I'm Nathan. 4 00:00:40.560 --> 00:00:43.679 And I'm a family-sized tub of Spack off for this episode. 5 00:00:44.159 --> 00:00:48.299 We're heading into our sand pit, possibly in Dorset then at this point. 6 00:00:48.359 --> 00:00:49.020 Who the hell cares? 7 00:00:49.079 --> 00:00:50.399 It's destiny of the Daleks. 8 00:00:50.460 --> 00:00:51.060 Hey. 9 00:00:51.060 --> 00:00:57.659 Right, so, Terry Nation's back. 10 00:00:57.719 --> 00:00:58.020 Is he? 11 00:00:58.140 --> 00:01:00.539 Do you have a checklist, Brandon? 12 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:04.260 Well, I was going I was going to leave that over to you because this is the last time. 13 00:01:04.319 --> 00:01:05.879 We can do a terry nation checklist. 14 00:01:05.939 --> 00:01:08.159 So let's count them off. there's radiation Yes. 15 00:01:08.219 --> 00:01:12.540 It is the same radiation planet that he's used, you know, a couple of times before. 16 00:01:12.599 --> 00:01:13.439 Yeah, yeah. 17 00:01:13.500 --> 00:01:22.560 Well, I think this is the only time that Terry's been back to Scaro, aside from Genesis of the Dialects, which arguably was written by Robert Holmes anyway. 18 00:01:22.620 --> 00:01:25.620 And Terry's only written the 1st episode of this anyway. 19 00:01:25.680 --> 00:01:37.140 Yeah, Ken Greaves says that he got a completed script for episode one, a draft script for episode 2, an outline for episode 3 and 4, and that he, Graham Williams, an incoming script editor, Douglas Adams. 20 00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:39.420 Hooray, we've got Douglas came up with the ending. 21 00:01:39.480 --> 00:01:42.359 So... 22 00:01:42.359 --> 00:01:43.739 That ending again. 23 00:01:43.799 --> 00:01:46.859 And Terry wasn't allowed to write the introduction scene with Lala. 24 00:01:48.599 --> 00:01:53.760 This is the one where it starts as every Terry Nations episode starts, the story starts. 25 00:01:53.819 --> 00:01:55.260 And I think it does this one really well. 26 00:01:55.319 --> 00:01:55.799 It works. 27 00:01:55.859 --> 00:01:57.420 It doesn't matter that it's 20 years old. 28 00:01:57.480 --> 00:01:59.400 Well, it's not quite, is it? 29 00:01:59.459 --> 00:02:04.260 But, you know, wandering around on a planet with an apparently hostile intruder and just getting our bearings. 30 00:02:04.379 --> 00:02:05.640 Yeah, absolutely. 31 00:02:05.700 --> 00:02:10.139 And hats off to Kangreve for going with steady cam for dislocation. 32 00:02:10.199 --> 00:02:11.520 How a beautiful time, isn't it? 33 00:02:11.580 --> 00:02:13.379 It's the 1st time in Doctor Who. 34 00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:15.120 And it was very new for drama at that point. 35 00:02:15.180 --> 00:02:16.919 It was actually the 1st time for drama. 36 00:02:16.979 --> 00:02:21.840 These things cost a fortune and the BBC was allowed to have it and they were allowed to have it for Doctor Who. 37 00:02:21.900 --> 00:02:24.240 So we have the most interesting things we look at. 38 00:02:24.300 --> 00:02:28.259 Uh, the comment chasing down the corridor scenes because they're dumbest dedicate. 39 00:02:28.319 --> 00:02:32.939 We have the very 1st time that the doctor's on his back staring at the ceiling and happy about it. 40 00:02:33.060 --> 00:02:34.919 We have ceilings. 41 00:02:34.979 --> 00:02:36.060 Yes, that's true. 42 00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:37.259 Yeah, the sound zone's wonderful. 43 00:02:37.500 --> 00:02:41.460 Yeah, when was Khaled dome-based lime green? 44 00:02:41.520 --> 00:02:48.719 Yeah, it's weird because the sets have the sets that are meant to be the same sets as from Genesis of Daleks. 45 00:02:48.780 --> 00:02:52.979 They have pretty much the same construction, but completely different colours. 46 00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:55.139 It's like they didn't have any reference photos to work from. 47 00:02:55.199 --> 00:02:56.400 They were just going from the blueprints. 48 00:02:56.460 --> 00:02:59.400 Actually, I think that obviously Terry didn't write very much of it. 49 00:02:59.460 --> 00:03:03.000 But you remember that Davros is actually in the bunker, of course. 50 00:03:03.060 --> 00:03:07.800 And I got the impression that the bunker was some distance from the Khaled dough. 51 00:03:07.979 --> 00:03:12.419 But here it's several levels below the car led city. 52 00:03:12.479 --> 00:03:19.439 See, I always thought it was below the Carled City because when the Carled City is bombed in Genesis, they survive, but they feel it. 53 00:03:19.560 --> 00:03:21.060 I seem to recall. 54 00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:21.900 But I could be wrong. 55 00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:26.819 I just want to say a few words about SteadyCam because some of the shows I work on. 56 00:03:26.939 --> 00:03:30.120 We still use a steady cam rig. 57 00:03:30.479 --> 00:03:34.199 And it really hasn't changed that much since the 70s. 58 00:03:34.259 --> 00:03:43.560 So for listeners who don't realise, the steady game is sort of a body armour slash harness that goes over the camera operator with an arm. 59 00:03:43.620 --> 00:03:48.060 So imagine sort of an Allen key, if you like, that you get an IKEA furniture. 60 00:03:48.120 --> 00:03:57.120 So that sticks in the back of the harness, goes over the camera operator's head and has pretty much a strong rope hanging down to the camera. 61 00:03:57.180 --> 00:04:03.240 So the camop holds the camera, but what is keeping it steady is this harness on their back. 62 00:04:03.300 --> 00:04:12.659 And that's why if you ever meet a cameraman, they are almost always quite tall, quite fit, quite muscular, because the job just does that to you. 63 00:04:12.780 --> 00:04:15.300 You can hear a window into Brendan's life here, aren't we? 64 00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:16.560 It's a bit exciting. 65 00:04:16.620 --> 00:04:21.540 So they don't just get an iPhone and like balance it on the back of their hand sort of thing and walk along. 66 00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:28.319 Don't talk to me about iPhone footage and television. 30 frames a second, Apple with no way to adjust it. 67 00:04:28.379 --> 00:04:33.720 Actually, no, sorry. 27 frames a 2nd on some occasions, but we're digressing massively. 68 00:04:33.779 --> 00:04:41.879 So, Terry Nathan checklist, we have radiation, we have almost only the regulars in the 1st episode with one person wandering around after them. 69 00:04:41.939 --> 00:04:45.600 We have anti-radiation, drugs, gloves. 70 00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:46.199 Gloves. 71 00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:50.939 Oh, and everyone says this, why does the doctor give Lala the bleeper but doesn't give her the drugs? 72 00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:53.459 Well, he's expecting her not to wander off. 73 00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:56.579 Oh, okay, because he's never been in a terry nation story before. 74 00:04:56.639 --> 00:04:58.980 So there's humanoids mining. 75 00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:02.279 Yes, there's mining servants of the Daleks and drilling. 76 00:05:02.339 --> 00:05:02.939 Yes. 77 00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:03.600 Yeah. 78 00:05:03.660 --> 00:05:06.959 Fundamental concepts of daleks being misunderstood. 79 00:05:07.319 --> 00:05:10.680 Yeah, he thinks they're robot. being misunderstood by the author. 80 00:05:10.740 --> 00:05:10.920 Exactly. 81 00:05:10.980 --> 00:05:18.899 There are some show notes wandering about might have been written after the fact that the Daleks were being taken to a new point. 82 00:05:18.959 --> 00:05:26.040 Terry assumed that everybody else would be keeping up with him and that they're now this completely logical post. 83 00:05:26.459 --> 00:05:30.360 You must have seen Star Wars, that, you know, the battle computers are running the Dalek story. 84 00:05:30.420 --> 00:05:34.439 And you see, in the next Dialect story, trying to... 85 00:05:34.439 --> 00:05:38.040 They're trying to recon that and it doesn't really work either, does it? 86 00:05:38.100 --> 00:05:39.540 More fun within the future for that one. 87 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:42.720 Yeah, I mean, it's strange, it is a very strange thing. 88 00:05:42.779 --> 00:05:45.660 So you've got 2 robot races. 89 00:05:45.720 --> 00:05:47.759 Yes, we haven't mentioned the Mavellans yet. 90 00:05:47.819 --> 00:05:48.720 We'll get to them. 91 00:05:48.779 --> 00:05:50.879 Do you know where this was coming from, this story? 92 00:05:50.939 --> 00:05:58.019 This was a Terry's last ditch attempt to boot a Dalek spinoff series. 93 00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:00.360 Ah, Daleks V move Allens. 94 00:06:00.420 --> 00:06:00.959 Yeah. 95 00:06:00.959 --> 00:06:01.500 Yeah. 96 00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:02.519 You know what? 97 00:06:02.579 --> 00:06:04.800 I think I would have, I think I would have watched that. 98 00:06:04.860 --> 00:06:11.519 But you would have had to have the Mavellans a bit more like a bit more human. movie version with Bo Derek. 99 00:06:11.579 --> 00:06:14.220 Does anyone under 30 even know who I'm talking about? 100 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:14.939 Probably not. 101 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:15.600 Yeah, yeah. 102 00:06:15.660 --> 00:06:16.139 I know, I know. 103 00:06:16.199 --> 00:06:17.459 I know of Bo Derek, yeah. 104 00:06:17.519 --> 00:06:18.180 The hair. 105 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:33.899 Well, I did I did have to wonder if this is Terry Nation sort of trying to do computers because the Daleks came from post-war Britain and sort of generational memory of the Nazis, end of communism, as we discussed all those, all those months ago. 106 00:06:34.079 --> 00:06:41.939 Whereas now, as we discover later in the year with Tom and Lala, advertising the terribly interactive prime computers. 107 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:43.439 I'm computers. 108 00:06:43.500 --> 00:06:44.879 Oh, that was very exciting. 109 00:06:44.939 --> 00:06:47.879 They were shown in the cinema in the cinemas here in 1990. 110 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:51.000 It was shown before the Muppet movie and infinitely better. 111 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:54.180 They didn't have it in England, I don't think. 112 00:06:54.180 --> 00:06:54.839 Prime computers. 113 00:06:54.899 --> 00:06:57.300 No, they're an Australian company on computers, yeah. 114 00:06:57.360 --> 00:07:00.959 Yeah, it was while they were out here, and I believe it was the last time Tom came out here. 115 00:07:01.079 --> 00:07:08.819 He was allowed to do the keep Australia beautiful stuff, but he apparently paid for some of the trip himself, so I don't know what was going on there. 116 00:07:08.879 --> 00:07:11.639 I believe he's got family in New Zealand. 117 00:07:11.699 --> 00:07:12.240 Oh, okay. 118 00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:13.259 So it wouldn't surprise me. 119 00:07:13.319 --> 00:07:15.540 But he was being played to do the keep Australia beautiful stuff. 120 00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:23.279 He did some paid work for the ABC for promos and then he also did It was a WHL in those days, the target books. 121 00:07:23.339 --> 00:07:25.920 He did signings as Nathan and I remember. 122 00:07:25.980 --> 00:07:28.019 It's a very moving time for us. 123 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:30.360 And this is the outfit that he wore. 124 00:07:30.420 --> 00:07:37.139 Like this seems to be like the canonical form of the doctors, the 4th doctor's outfit with that fabulous jacket. 125 00:07:37.560 --> 00:07:45.120 But, you know, at the time, sort of the home computer market was burgeoning. 126 00:07:45.180 --> 00:07:56.519 And so Terry Nation seemed to be someone who would look at ideas that were happening now, well, I say now is in the time he was writing the script. 127 00:07:56.579 --> 00:08:01.740 So, you know, Planet of the Daleks, we have a battle in a jungle at the same time the Vietnam War was going on. 128 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:05.519 And here we have terrination sort of going, computers. 129 00:08:05.579 --> 00:08:08.939 What if someone computerised their weapon systems? 130 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:11.220 What if the computers couldn't find a way around each other? 131 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:12.959 And yeah, it's a... 132 00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:18.480 We were getting films, sorry, we were getting films from 78 about this very concept. 133 00:08:18.540 --> 00:08:19.980 When's war games? 134 00:08:20.040 --> 00:08:22.560 That's a good point. 79, isn't it? 135 00:08:22.620 --> 00:08:24.480 I thought it was 84, but I could be wrong. 136 00:08:24.540 --> 00:08:25.139 Could be. 137 00:08:25.199 --> 00:08:27.839 Isn't Quill Wheaton in that? 138 00:08:27.899 --> 00:08:30.240 No, it's Matthew Broderick, isn't it? 139 00:08:30.300 --> 00:08:31.199 Oh, yeah, that's right. 140 00:08:31.259 --> 00:08:32.039 Matthew Waterhouse. 141 00:08:32.100 --> 00:08:33.000 Yeah, yeah. 142 00:08:33.059 --> 00:08:34.500 A young Matthew Waterhouse. 143 00:08:34.559 --> 00:08:39.539 Will Wheaton is apparently interviewing Peter Capaldi and Jenna Coleman for the series 9 box set. 144 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:42.720 I'm excited by that Yeah, he's pretty good. 145 00:08:42.779 --> 00:08:44.639 As we record this, dear listener. 146 00:08:44.700 --> 00:08:48.000 Hellbent has gone out but we haven't seen it yet. 147 00:08:48.059 --> 00:08:54.899 We really care about new podcast listeners, which is why we're not currently sitting on the couch watching Hell Band. 148 00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:55.559 That's right. 149 00:08:55.620 --> 00:08:58.080 Well, plus, Rod would kill me if I watched it without it. 150 00:08:58.139 --> 00:08:59.100 Yeah, fair enough. 151 00:08:59.159 --> 00:09:00.360 But back to Destin. 152 00:09:00.419 --> 00:09:04.740 Is it rather telling that we're talking about anything else, rub and destiny of the Daleks? 153 00:09:04.799 --> 00:09:09.179 I want to talk about why this is such a great show and why you just said it. 154 00:09:09.240 --> 00:09:09.659 It was new. 155 00:09:09.720 --> 00:09:10.919 It hadn't been seen before. 156 00:09:10.980 --> 00:09:16.259 A nation does, even though we go for tropisms, is that the term, I believe, we've used before? 157 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:17.159 Possibly. 158 00:09:17.220 --> 00:09:18.000 Yeah, terry tropes. 159 00:09:18.059 --> 00:09:19.379 It is fresh and new. 160 00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:22.139 It looked startlingly, beautifully new. 161 00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:25.980 And once you get the aggressors, the Dalek aggressors in there. 162 00:09:26.039 --> 00:09:27.059 Once you get the Mavellans. 163 00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:32.580 We had seen these sorts of sets before in Space 1979, but we had never seen it in Doctor Who. 164 00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:34.200 It was bright and beautiful. 165 00:09:34.259 --> 00:09:36.179 The ship design is gorgeous and fresh. 166 00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:38.399 Lala, should we start with Lala? 167 00:09:38.940 --> 00:09:40.679 Yeah, why haven't we spoken about last? 168 00:09:40.740 --> 00:09:41.340 Gorgeous and fresh. 169 00:09:41.399 --> 00:09:43.919 We haven't spoken about that scene, but we haven't spoken about her. 170 00:09:43.980 --> 00:09:52.500 And, you know, like I was a big proponent of the theory that Mary Tam takes a brief sabbatical from acting during her year on Doctor Who. 171 00:09:52.620 --> 00:09:54.899 I don't really have an argument. 172 00:09:55.320 --> 00:10:00.240 But that actually kind of works because, you know, she takes a tone of ironic detachment. 173 00:10:00.659 --> 00:10:04.799 Lala, I think is very, very different from Mary. 174 00:10:04.919 --> 00:10:06.360 Yeah, engaged. 175 00:10:06.419 --> 00:10:10.799 It's much clearer, I think, in Creature from the Pit, which is her first story. 176 00:10:10.799 --> 00:10:11.820 First story recorder. 177 00:10:11.879 --> 00:10:15.419 This is actually the 3rd story she recorded because they went into City of Death after that. 178 00:10:15.539 --> 00:10:17.340 So funny story later on. 179 00:10:17.399 --> 00:10:22.259 So she's quite confident and I think, you know, she's established the character. 180 00:10:22.259 --> 00:10:29.879 And the thing that she differs from Mary in is that she does actually feel human emotions about things. 181 00:10:29.940 --> 00:10:30.539 Do you know what I mean? 182 00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:32.460 She's often really happy. 183 00:10:32.580 --> 00:10:34.679 Like she likes being with the doctor. 184 00:10:34.740 --> 00:10:39.659 She's smart, you know, the 2 of them are just terribly good together. 185 00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:40.860 That won't last. 186 00:10:40.919 --> 00:10:42.299 No, no, yeah. 187 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:44.220 They bounce off one another. 188 00:10:44.279 --> 00:10:53.340 You know, she reacts with smiles to funny things that he says, you know, there's a real, there's a real enthusiasm in Lala's performance. 189 00:10:53.399 --> 00:10:56.879 Well, you know, Tom wanted to leave at the end of the previous season. 190 00:10:56.940 --> 00:11:04.500 There are stories that, yeah, that Williams, part of the thing was Lala on board, and Douglas kept Tom on. 191 00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:09.960 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. because Tom and Lala really hit it off on the set of Armageddon factor, obviously. 192 00:11:10.019 --> 00:11:16.139 And also Tom and Douglas were of a very similar sense of humour. 193 00:11:16.200 --> 00:11:29.100 And Lala and Douglas were great friends as well. sort of Tom was enchanted by Lala and I don't know if Lala suggested Douglas Adams and Anthony Reed doesn't know who suggested Douglas Adams, but he approved of the idea. 194 00:11:29.159 --> 00:11:32.940 No, sadly, he passed away just... 195 00:11:33.059 --> 00:11:34.799 After the riding horns of 91, career wise. 196 00:11:34.799 --> 00:11:41.580 But yeah, so we have sort of a powerful triumvirate from the beginning. 197 00:11:41.639 --> 00:11:44.460 I have one problem with Lull Award's performance in this story. 198 00:11:44.519 --> 00:11:45.059 Yeah. 199 00:11:45.059 --> 00:11:48.720 Just one and that is her interrogation by the Daleks. 200 00:11:48.779 --> 00:11:52.440 She just goes to pieces far too quickly. 201 00:11:52.500 --> 00:12:02.220 It could have been mitigated if then later on, she said, you know, you just have to, you just have to act like you're perfectly terrified, and the Daleks expect that. 202 00:12:02.279 --> 00:12:09.120 But it is actually a nice change to get her reacting to peril because Mary barely ever bothers to do that. 203 00:12:09.179 --> 00:12:13.620 She goes, you know, oh, no, don't push me over that cliff doctor, but, you know, she does. 204 00:12:14.159 --> 00:12:15.419 It looked more convincing. 205 00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:15.960 Yeah, yeah. 206 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:17.759 She's really not that into it. 207 00:12:17.820 --> 00:12:18.840 Whereas... 208 00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:20.279 Yes, this from mine is engaged. 209 00:12:20.340 --> 00:12:21.419 I fully with that. 210 00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:28.379 This is a new person in a new body and there's the Katie factor, the Katie Manning factor we haven't mentioned. 211 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:37.139 Lala constantly in interviews back then, and now when she graces us, you know, rarely with a few words, was playing it for the teeny tots. 212 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:37.919 Yes, yeah. 213 00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:39.179 Not for the teenagers. 214 00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:44.879 And this is why she did things with the costume, or later on when she starts to have more control over that sort of thing. 215 00:12:44.940 --> 00:12:46.259 She wanted to play it for the small children. 216 00:12:46.379 --> 00:12:49.200 So you're going to be getting some Katie memes. 217 00:12:49.259 --> 00:12:52.080 We can say meme because her husband coined the word. 218 00:12:52.320 --> 00:13:02.100 Well, that's definitely supported by the fact that Lola is still writing literature for children, writing and illustrating and painting beautiful stuff for children. 219 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:06.779 And I think that's possibly in part because... 220 00:13:06.779 --> 00:13:08.039 She was at the time as well, you know. 221 00:13:08.100 --> 00:13:09.120 Oh, yeah, absolutely. 222 00:13:09.240 --> 00:13:12.480 She did an astrology book for cats as a colouring in thing. 223 00:13:12.539 --> 00:13:13.679 Yeah, she really did. 224 00:13:14.340 --> 00:13:20.399 And of course, she didn't have a great time at school herself. 225 00:13:20.460 --> 00:13:27.779 So I think that's possibly why she's so keen on children's intelligence and children's learning. 226 00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:34.379 And there's a wonderful sort of moral there that she tells the story and Richard Dawkins tells the story about questioning things. 227 00:13:34.440 --> 00:13:41.519 And I think it was, she's in her late teens or early 20s and told her parents, no, I hated school. 228 00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:45.779 And you know, I know you were paying for a lot of money for me to go there, but I hated it. 229 00:13:45.779 --> 00:13:47.399 And I said, darling, why didn't you say anything? 230 00:13:47.460 --> 00:13:49.500 And she said, I didn't know I could. 231 00:13:49.559 --> 00:13:49.860 Yeah. 232 00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:57.600 And I think that's that's a big part of her performance as it goes on as well because she's suddenly a character who can do anything. 233 00:13:57.720 --> 00:14:05.580 But at the same time, she's a character who, unlike the doctor, understands the responsibility of I can do anything. 234 00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:15.179 And I'm going to go out there and say, you know, this is the year that everyone says that Tom starts doing silly walks and not taking it seriously and da da da da. 235 00:14:15.419 --> 00:14:30.000 I think in every story this season, we have great examples of yet Tom is larking about and having the jokes, but each story has a great scene where the doctor is just cold and steel again. 236 00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:32.159 It never goes away. 237 00:14:32.279 --> 00:14:32.940 I think people forget that. 238 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:47.220 Yeah, and it's exactly. to have one thing overshadowed by another, but it's just that this is the 1st time he's had the opportunity, like a puppy left at home by itself, to play and be playful because there's someone of equal measure in charge. 239 00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:58.799 Moffatt talks about the co-leads of Doctor Who, you know, that Jenna has been, you know, a co-lead, and, you know, she's even been in the opening credits and things. 240 00:14:58.860 --> 00:15:06.480 Here, Romana is the doctor's equal. in a way that she wasn't really in Rebos operation, 'cause she didn't have the experience. 241 00:15:06.539 --> 00:15:11.399 Now she's been travelling with the doctor, the 2 of them just get on terribly well. 242 00:15:11.460 --> 00:15:15.240 And so you can just give the doctor's bits to Lala to do. 243 00:15:15.299 --> 00:15:20.159 And, you know, she's wearing a pink facsimile of the doctor's outfit. 244 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:22.379 As you are today, Richard. 245 00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:23.039 I am. 246 00:15:23.100 --> 00:15:23.940 I'm looking good. 247 00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:25.679 The scarf is delighted. 248 00:15:25.740 --> 00:15:30.000 And right from the word go, even though it's a bit warm in here. 249 00:15:30.059 --> 00:15:41.879 June Hudson and Lala. a great deal of control over together over how the character would develop through the costume and Lana definitely saw characters development through her costumes. 250 00:15:41.940 --> 00:15:46.919 She gets great costumes this year too, with one notable exception. 251 00:15:46.980 --> 00:15:49.139 Indeed, which will come to later. 252 00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:51.360 So can we talk about why she's here? 253 00:15:51.600 --> 00:16:10.679 Because this is one of the things that really irritated me when I 1st watched this as a child was the carelessness on the part of whoever was running the show of actually not making sure that 2 out of your 3 leads were coming back next year. 254 00:16:10.740 --> 00:16:17.759 And so suddenly, you know, we have to scramble to replace Mary because we didn't get her back. 255 00:16:17.820 --> 00:16:27.600 We have this story, canine has laryngitis, which is preparing him for the big change in his voice that will come, you know, in 2 months time. 256 00:16:27.659 --> 00:16:30.899 And he did the same thing at the end of last year. 257 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:52.139 You know, like suddenly Leela goes and he's got no sort of particular plan to replace her and has to have, you know, the Romana has to be magically materialised inside the TARDIS, you know, with no sort of pre-existing life or anything like that because we need a girl, you know, in the in the regular cast. 258 00:16:52.379 --> 00:16:55.620 You know, he doesn't care about... 259 00:16:55.620 --> 00:16:57.000 You got a hole in the console for them. 260 00:16:57.059 --> 00:17:02.759 You know, Graham Williams wanted to be very strong on story and he wanted to have interesting story hooks. 261 00:17:03.179 --> 00:17:06.299 But he cared less about character. 262 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:10.140 It's like he kind of thought the characters were there to serve the story. 263 00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:27.299 Which, to an extent, is very true of Doctor Who, just last night I watched a great documentary called Chaos on the Bridge, which is all about Gene Roddenbury's involvement in Star Trek, the Next Generation, and how it almost all fell apart until other people took over from him. 264 00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:30.059 We'll be getting to that with creature from the pit, aren't we? 265 00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:33.420 It's produced by it's produced by William Shatner. 266 00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:42.359 But one of the comments in it comes from Ronald D. Moore, who was a writer for Star Trek, came up with a new Battlestar Galactica. 267 00:17:42.420 --> 00:17:47.940 So, you know, lots of stuff, and he said the problem with Gene Star Trek is it was plot driven rather than character driven. 268 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:48.779 Yeah. 269 00:17:48.779 --> 00:17:51.059 And the thing is, that works for something like Doctor Who. 270 00:17:51.180 --> 00:17:52.559 The classic Doctor Who. 271 00:17:52.619 --> 00:17:53.700 But now new Doctor Who. 272 00:17:54.299 --> 00:17:56.099 Is character driven rather than plot driven. 273 00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:57.480 So it's an interesting observation. 274 00:17:57.539 --> 00:18:05.940 I think Graham Williams, more than any other Doctor Who producer, was a plot driven producer for better or for worse, rather than a character driven one. 275 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:13.019 Yeah, the actors were notable enough to be able to play around and develop their own little moments and lives. 276 00:18:13.619 --> 00:18:14.460 I think that that's okay. 277 00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:15.299 Do you know what I mean? 278 00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:22.440 And like, I'm not demanding that, you know, Romana has to sort of cry or reminisce about her father or, you know, like anything like that. 279 00:18:22.500 --> 00:18:27.240 Um, you know, we're used to classic Doctor Who being plot driven. 280 00:18:27.299 --> 00:18:34.019 But there's just a kind of carelessness and like a lack of interest in making convincing people. 281 00:18:34.140 --> 00:18:40.440 You know, like, Barbara and Ian didn't have, you know, sophisticated interiority or anything like that. 282 00:18:40.500 --> 00:18:43.619 You know, they didn't spend a lot of time talking about their feelings. 283 00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:45.660 But at least... came out both, yeah. 284 00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:54.779 And they were kind of identifiable as people and it mattered when they left and it mattered what happened to them, you know, I'm still really upset about that actually. 285 00:18:54.779 --> 00:19:05.039 I'm just giggling because anytime you talk about sort of Ian's performance, I always think of that moment in the keys of marinace where he's marvelling at the pyramid saying, it must have been built with tremendous accuracy. 286 00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:08.819 Yeah, it wasn't exactly right. 287 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:17.220 But it's also that we had the time and the time was put into not only longer seasons, but the time to develop between characters and characters themselves. 288 00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:19.740 Whereas in this one, yes, and they have a great introduction. 289 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:21.480 I don't mind Lala being thrown into it. 290 00:19:21.660 --> 00:19:25.920 She takes control very quickly and very easily. 291 00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:28.440 And there's a sort of fun of the party's already started. 292 00:19:28.500 --> 00:19:35.759 There's nothing more fun than turning up at a party an hour after it started when everybody's there and the energies in full swing. 293 00:19:35.819 --> 00:19:36.900 You don't want to be the 1st guest. 294 00:19:37.019 --> 00:19:37.799 No. 295 00:19:37.859 --> 00:19:39.660 And look, I mean, she works. 296 00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:40.799 I have no objection. 297 00:19:40.859 --> 00:19:54.299 And, you know, like, I think Todd Todd took a little while to get used to Lala and was texting us about it for a bit, but I actually think Lala is superior to Mary. 298 00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:59.220 She's not as, she's not as glamorous and not quite as ironic. 299 00:19:59.339 --> 00:20:00.539 She's more engaged. 300 00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:05.940 She loves it and her and Tom just hit it off and they're saying Douglas Adams things. 301 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:12.240 And so they're suddenly funny and the smartest people in the room and, you know, each as smart as each other. 302 00:20:12.299 --> 00:20:17.519 And, you know, I think that there's a reason, for instance, that Gareth Roberts loves this season. 303 00:20:17.579 --> 00:20:23.460 You know, it's just, it's smart, fun, funny people having fun, and that's the other thing, too. 304 00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:24.599 It's the F word. 305 00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:26.220 Yeah, it is the F word. 306 00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:27.599 The doctor's not on an emission. 307 00:20:27.660 --> 00:20:29.819 His trips are completely random. 308 00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:32.039 When does he actually say, I don't know. 309 00:20:32.099 --> 00:20:32.940 I'm just having fun. 310 00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:35.880 I mean, there is, he even just, he even gets to say that. 311 00:20:35.940 --> 00:20:36.779 There is... 312 00:20:36.779 --> 00:20:38.400 It's in the nightmare of Eden. 313 00:20:38.460 --> 00:20:39.299 I't work for anyone. 314 00:20:39.359 --> 00:20:40.200 I'm just having fun. 315 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:40.980 Yeah, yeah. 316 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:41.759 And he really is. 317 00:20:41.819 --> 00:20:49.559 It's infectious, you know, and like I think this season has all kinds of problems with production and script and stuff like that. 318 00:20:49.619 --> 00:20:52.200 But just the underlying feel of it. 319 00:20:52.259 --> 00:20:55.440 Just, it seems, it's so enjoyable. 320 00:20:55.559 --> 00:21:03.420 You know, it comes back to something you were saying earlier, Richard, in that when I was a child, I preferred Lila War to Mary Tann. 321 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:04.200 Int you, interesting. 322 00:21:04.259 --> 00:21:07.259 Now, as an adult, I prefer Mary Tam Talal Award. 323 00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:11.640 But that's like saying, and I'm sure I've used this analogy on the podcast before. 324 00:21:11.700 --> 00:21:14.039 I prefer dark chocolate to milk chocolate. 325 00:21:14.099 --> 00:21:15.660 Also, Tim terms, too. 326 00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:18.000 Yeah, they're very different. 327 00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:18.660 Lovely sweetness. 328 00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:19.380 They're very different. 329 00:21:19.380 --> 00:21:21.000 And it works. 330 00:21:21.059 --> 00:21:22.740 The character is strong for having both of them. 331 00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:28.619 I think what also helps is, you know, for us as fans and we've seen interviews and been to conventions and whatnot. 332 00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:35.400 Mary Tam and Lala Ward always speak so highly of each other. and their respective strengths. 333 00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:39.359 We'll come back to that, again, in creature, creature from the pit. 334 00:21:39.420 --> 00:21:46.140 But when Lala talks about her outfit, she says, you know, at the beginning they were giving me stuff for Mary Tam, who is this bombshell model. 335 00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:51.900 And, you know, I'm more and, oh, I don't want to say that Mary isn't. 336 00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:53.880 But I'm more, I'm more girly. 337 00:21:53.940 --> 00:21:59.099 I have a well, I have that sort of small mousy English figure, I think she says at one point. 338 00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:02.039 Oh, I'm glad you said that because I thought you were talking about yourself then. 339 00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:05.819 Both hands were. 340 00:22:05.819 --> 00:22:07.559 Have we talked about regeneration? 341 00:22:07.859 --> 00:22:12.000 Ah, yes, the regeneration of the triangle. 342 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:13.019 And of the body. 343 00:22:13.079 --> 00:22:14.579 So what happened? 344 00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:17.400 She burns through half her regeneration. 345 00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:17.880 Projections? 346 00:22:17.940 --> 00:22:19.019 Just like Choji. 347 00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:22.259 Or projections or remember David Tennant grows a hand back. 348 00:22:22.380 --> 00:22:24.240 So, you know, it's morphic. 349 00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:27.539 And of course, she is more of an establishment time lord. 350 00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:30.599 So maybe time lords can control where a generation is today. 351 00:22:30.660 --> 00:22:37.019 It's also been a few 100 years since doctors left Gallifrey. you know, and she's got a triple first. 352 00:22:37.079 --> 00:22:38.579 Yeah, that's true. 353 00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:39.660 That's part of the whole. 354 00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:41.579 There's a lot of the lovely Tibetan stuff. 355 00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:44.819 I don't think you mentioned, I haven't heard it yet in your last podcast. 356 00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:55.559 I believe that part of Romana's 1st Romana stoicism, and she is a product of the academy, so that her removal from or disengagement from the narrative was entirely at one with the character. 357 00:22:55.680 --> 00:22:58.920 She's, as you say, disdained to act. 358 00:22:58.980 --> 00:23:02.759 Yeah, you know, I think it's just Mary, Tam Slum, giving his TV for a year. 359 00:23:02.819 --> 00:23:04.019 Yeah, possibly show. 360 00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:07.740 But it also works for the character of Romana having never been engaged. 361 00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:11.880 And when she's tortured by the shadow, the radiation treatment. 362 00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:35.400 The thing that struck me, although it didn't hit me at the time, because I was too busy just getting excited and watching this change, is that you remember when Billy regenerated, there was no reference to, in fact, there are a couple of moments we've talked about in the past of him having one heart, and it's mentioned that, you know, he only has a single heart, and it seems to be that time lords only get the wrestle on body after the, there is a suggestion of that. 363 00:23:35.460 --> 00:23:41.099 There is except that the Dulcians and the dominators have 2 hearts each. 364 00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:41.819 Yeah, well. 365 00:23:41.819 --> 00:23:43.680 So it kind of kicked in for Pad either. 366 00:23:43.740 --> 00:23:46.319 Ah, but the dominators didn't scan Patrick. 367 00:23:46.380 --> 00:23:47.279 Oh, I didn't know. 368 00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:51.599 They only scaned Jamie and then they said, shall we scan the shall we scan the other one? 369 00:23:51.660 --> 00:23:52.859 No, no, they must be the same. 370 00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:55.259 They look they all look the same to us. 371 00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:58.440 But there's some Billy references that he only had a single one. 372 00:23:58.500 --> 00:23:59.400 Yes. 373 00:23:59.460 --> 00:24:04.259 I would just to just think that she was more fragile and she needed to, and she didn't make a big deal of it. 374 00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:05.759 She just made a party of it. 375 00:24:05.819 --> 00:24:09.539 But it is also just a fun thing to get time off. 376 00:24:09.539 --> 00:24:10.140 Sorry to do. 377 00:24:10.140 --> 00:24:12.660 Douglas Adams take on the whole. 378 00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:21.359 It's why the master gets introduced to the new series by having him regenerate because that's something that we've seen a time or due. 379 00:24:21.420 --> 00:24:30.660 It's the thing that the time laws do is they regenerate and they are the star of Doctor Who. and that's the thing that the master tries to do. 380 00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:31.920 It's just been the last story. 381 00:24:31.980 --> 00:24:32.220 Yes. 382 00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:44.279 Come to think of it, the only time lord, we'd seen regenerate in different incarnations where it's been confirmed that it's random is the doctor. 383 00:24:44.339 --> 00:24:48.660 Barusa regenerates and he never comments whether he wanted this body or not. 384 00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:52.019 He never seems to be disdainful of his body. 385 00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:53.819 We get that line later on in the 5 doctors. 386 00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:55.859 Your regeneration has not improved your stubbornness. 387 00:24:55.920 --> 00:24:57.720 That doesn't tell us it's random. 388 00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:00.779 Because he chooses to be campy 20 old British character. 389 00:25:01.380 --> 00:25:04.619 Yeah, you know, you would, wouldn't you? 390 00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:10.380 He sits there watching RKO pictures and going, yeah, I'll have that one. with Everett Horton. 391 00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:11.220 Thank you again. 392 00:25:11.579 --> 00:25:17.400 Now, there are 2 fan theories I'm going to mention for Lala's regeneration. 393 00:25:17.460 --> 00:25:19.799 Now, when I say fan, there is these are officially published. 394 00:25:19.859 --> 00:25:24.900 One of them is in the galafray audio, so I'm not going to say what that explanation is because that's still available. 395 00:25:24.900 --> 00:25:26.279 Yeah, I've enjoyed. 396 00:25:26.339 --> 00:25:28.740 And Richard, that was your recommendation at the end of season 15. 397 00:25:28.980 --> 00:25:30.299 I do recommend people go out and get that. 398 00:25:30.359 --> 00:25:32.640 But there's also a short story, which is out of print. 399 00:25:32.700 --> 00:25:35.759 So I will discuss that called The Lying Old Witch in the wardrobe. 400 00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:41.940 And the concept behind that is Mary Tams Romana is stumbling around the Tartars after the Armageddon factor. 401 00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:48.960 The fake section of the key to time was radiating evil particles and is forcing her to regenerate. 402 00:25:49.019 --> 00:26:00.779 She stumbles into the TARDIS wardrobe, and there's this old, pretty much librarian there of the TARDIS wardrobe, and she says, oh dear, you know, you're so weak, you know, sit down here, and imprisons Romana. 403 00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:05.400 It's an avatar of the Tartars, jealous of all the fun the doctor and Romana are having. 404 00:26:05.460 --> 00:26:16.799 And so, it takes the form of Princess Astra and dresses up like the doctor and goes out and has this horrible adventure on Skyrim. tortured by these dalek things and then it's buried under rocks. 405 00:26:16.859 --> 00:26:22.140 So it comes back and says, no, you know what, dear, you can have him, but now you have to look like this zap. 406 00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:26.220 And that's why she comes out looking like, wow, what an incredibly silly. 407 00:26:26.279 --> 00:26:28.140 But I thought it was worth mentioning. 408 00:26:28.859 --> 00:26:31.859 Richard you look very unimpressed. 409 00:26:32.579 --> 00:26:39.420 That's just the point of it, is that it's all open and the more woolly it appears, the more you can play with and write. 410 00:26:39.539 --> 00:26:48.420 You notice we're not talking a lot about the plot or indeed the narrative or the ideas behind this because you don't really need to, do you? 411 00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:49.680 It felt fun. 412 00:26:49.740 --> 00:26:53.099 When I was a kid, you will know this place. 413 00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:59.279 There was an old brickworks behind my house halfway up a mountain. 414 00:26:59.339 --> 00:27:01.799 No, no, but not that. 415 00:27:02.039 --> 00:27:17.519 So you, the brickworks, it's at a French's forest, there was a giant, there was a big chimney stack, and there were all these, all of these sort of broken buildings and stuff that looked heaps like Destiny of the Dark. 416 00:27:17.579 --> 00:27:23.579 A very small boy in some poor woman's stolen pink dressing gown. 417 00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:30.539 That was me with a tire pressure gauge as my Sonic Screwdriver, playing in the backyard. 418 00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:36.960 I mean, this was the doctor who, you know, it was, you know, the 2nd time maybe that I was aware that there was a new season. 419 00:27:37.019 --> 00:27:40.440 Like, I think I would have been in 6th class. 420 00:27:40.500 --> 00:27:43.019 You know, this was hugely hugely exciting. 421 00:27:43.259 --> 00:27:45.000 This is our season. 422 00:27:45.059 --> 00:27:49.799 Tom came amongst us to send us maybe the 2nd coming, 1st coming, actually. 423 00:27:49.859 --> 00:27:56.339 Yeah, no, well, I think Creature from the Pit was on when Tom came to the famous Grace Brothers car park thing. 424 00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:00.119 And he was certainly wearing this outfit from Destiny. 425 00:28:00.180 --> 00:28:02.579 So should we talk about rock, paper, scissors? 426 00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:03.960 A game theory. 427 00:28:04.019 --> 00:28:17.880 We've mentioned before John von Neumann's game theory of 1928, which was used by the Americans to, from 28 onwards as part of their wargaming strategy, is how will America succeed in post-war and Cold War? 428 00:28:17.940 --> 00:28:19.259 How will we conduct our battles? 429 00:28:19.380 --> 00:28:24.960 And it actually dictated the post-war US CIA in military strategies. 430 00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:28.920 So rock, paper, scissors, then comes in as Iching. 431 00:28:28.980 --> 00:28:30.779 Yeah, it encounters that. 432 00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:33.059 Oh, because it's random? 433 00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:37.200 Yeah, there are 2 forces here in this whole season where we can get to it. 434 00:28:37.259 --> 00:28:37.980 Let's get to it now. 435 00:28:38.039 --> 00:28:53.880 There's a sense that it works because it makes something that's, you know, a little bit complex and a little bit abstract, visible, you know, through physical action, so we can see the doctor in Romana playing scissors rock paper. 436 00:28:53.940 --> 00:28:55.019 Roxy's paper. 437 00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:56.460 Pepsis? 438 00:28:56.519 --> 00:28:56.819 Anyway. 439 00:28:56.880 --> 00:28:58.019 Lizard Spock. 440 00:28:58.079 --> 00:29:01.920 And you can see the Mofellans doing it, and you can see a very different outcome in it. 441 00:29:01.980 --> 00:29:04.079 It's kind of fun and funny. 442 00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:07.500 You know, it adds to a kind of lighthearted atmosphere. 443 00:29:07.619 --> 00:29:08.579 But, of course, it makes no sense. 444 00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:14.940 There is no logical move to make in scissors, rock, paper, and it is essentially random. 445 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:16.859 There is no way that the 2 robots would do the same. 446 00:29:16.920 --> 00:29:23.160 Although they're looking at the pattern that the doctor, as you said, getting it in order. 447 00:29:23.220 --> 00:29:30.420 So they're just repeating a pattern, you know, we've started with the rock, then we'll start because the paper, then the scissors. 448 00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:35.400 So they're each repeating, but you could go an arbitrary number of levels back, 2nd guessing someone. 449 00:29:35.460 --> 00:29:36.240 Do you know what I mean? 450 00:29:36.299 --> 00:29:38.579 Which means that there's actually no right answer. 451 00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:46.259 It does suggest that their battle computers were actually mastermind plastic sets that were around in the day before we had our own. 452 00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:47.880 We used to put little coloured pegs in. 453 00:29:47.940 --> 00:29:48.480 They were great. 454 00:29:48.539 --> 00:29:49.079 I love like that. 455 00:29:49.140 --> 00:29:49.740 They were good. 456 00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:52.859 And they made good dalek bumps on your cardboard dialects when you had to make them. 457 00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:54.480 But yeah, I remember that plastic game. 458 00:29:54.539 --> 00:29:55.019 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 459 00:29:55.079 --> 00:30:03.539 But there was, yes, because really if they're super, super clever, computers can generate random stuff. codes, so... 460 00:30:03.900 --> 00:30:04.440 Yeah, yeah. 461 00:30:04.500 --> 00:30:08.519 I mean, this, this, you know, is it's Terry Nation trying to understand computers. 462 00:30:08.579 --> 00:30:11.640 Yeah, it's Terrenation trying to understand anything after 1965. 463 00:30:12.359 --> 00:30:22.079 Whereas, you know, Douglas Adams was mad on computers and what, something like owned one of the 1st Apple computers in the UK when it was just some circuit boards glued to a piece of wood. 464 00:30:22.140 --> 00:30:24.539 Does that bring us to the Mavellans then? 465 00:30:24.599 --> 00:30:27.359 So they're very poorly designed, aren't they? 466 00:30:27.420 --> 00:30:28.500 No, they're beautiful. 467 00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:30.839 Oh, you mean from a security standpoint? 468 00:30:30.900 --> 00:30:32.220 Well, they just rip their battery off. 469 00:30:32.279 --> 00:30:33.240 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 470 00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:44.940 I love that they look like my bionic woman, $6000000 man doll when you roll them up and they've got a plastic insert and they're back exactly the same as the plastic thing with the stuff, which I still have, yes. 471 00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:46.200 Exactly the same. 472 00:30:46.259 --> 00:30:49.500 And of course, we've got Tony is sober. 473 00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:50.759 Yes, we own him. 474 00:30:50.819 --> 00:30:51.599 He's gorgeous. 475 00:30:51.660 --> 00:30:54.240 He was also in Journey Into Space, one of the reboot ones. 476 00:30:54.299 --> 00:31:03.539 You know, we talked about Charles Crichton's Landmark 50s space opera, which was the last thing in British broadcasting to outrage television at the same time. 477 00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:07.140 It was actually play the 2nd series was in the 60s. 478 00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:10.200 Antonio sober was in one of the reboots in the early 70s. 479 00:31:10.619 --> 00:31:12.900 Again, by Charles Crichton. 480 00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:14.039 Really clever. 481 00:31:14.099 --> 00:31:15.299 They're not just rockets in space. 482 00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:22.019 They were all Philip K. Dick, mind screwy stuff of believing they're somewhere else. 483 00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:29.700 So one of the astronauts believes he's in the Australian desert, and living with a kangaroo, and the flying doctor. 484 00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:30.359 Yes. 485 00:31:30.420 --> 00:31:32.400 So before Skippy ever came in. 486 00:31:32.460 --> 00:31:38.400 But anyway, yeah, Tony Osoba's been part of British SF tradition for a long time, and he's in porridge. 487 00:31:38.460 --> 00:31:39.960 We've got Peter Straker. 488 00:31:39.960 --> 00:31:40.740 It's very good. 489 00:31:40.859 --> 00:31:41.579 Under Cheryl. 490 00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:45.779 Yes, and the opposite of Dar Ross. 491 00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:49.200 We now all know a new way of pronouncing... 492 00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:50.039 Star Ross. 493 00:31:50.039 --> 00:31:50.759 Star Ross. 494 00:31:50.819 --> 00:31:54.059 He's really good. really cool and menacing, isn't he? 495 00:31:54.119 --> 00:31:56.039 He's sort of fabulously androgynous as well. 496 00:31:56.099 --> 00:31:58.920 He's actually a butch Peter Wingard, isn't he? 497 00:31:59.099 --> 00:32:02.160 And quite, you know, he's quite good looking. 498 00:32:03.119 --> 00:32:05.099 Suzanne Danielle. 499 00:32:05.160 --> 00:32:14.640 And what about the press at the time when her agent was pissing off Williams and everybody else, but, you know, the publicity... 500 00:32:14.700 --> 00:32:15.720 Oh, yeah, remember all that? 501 00:32:15.779 --> 00:32:21.240 Every woman who was in Doctor Who in the 1970s seemed to get their agent to say that to the press. 502 00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:23.339 Yeah, not Beatrix Lehman. 503 00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:28.319 Couldn't we've had Beatrix or even running around time and space trying to hit Kroll with a truncheon? 504 00:32:28.500 --> 00:32:30.059 It worked. 505 00:32:30.119 --> 00:32:32.819 Try and hit a roto with a crunch. 506 00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:35.579 No, the Mavellans are such a great design. 507 00:32:35.640 --> 00:32:36.779 I mean, they're so 70s. 508 00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:38.160 They disco robots, aren't they? 509 00:32:38.220 --> 00:32:39.660 Yes, they are, which is what they should be. 510 00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:41.099 Yeah, but also... 511 00:32:41.099 --> 00:32:42.119 You can make them pretty. 512 00:32:42.299 --> 00:32:46.799 It is telling that they don't turn up in the 80s even though they get mentioned. 513 00:32:46.859 --> 00:32:49.859 Yeah, it doesn't want us to look at them again. 514 00:32:49.980 --> 00:32:51.839 They're too they're too silly for Eric Saywood. 515 00:32:51.900 --> 00:32:52.859 They're 270s. 516 00:32:52.980 --> 00:32:54.720 They do part of, exactly. 517 00:32:54.779 --> 00:32:56.940 And they're too much fun for our exam. 518 00:32:57.000 --> 00:32:57.359 Yes. 519 00:32:57.420 --> 00:33:03.599 Something we've criticised the series 4 often is, of course, that everyone cast is white. 520 00:33:04.140 --> 00:33:07.259 Whereas the Mavelans are not. 521 00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:10.500 The Mavellans are all different nationalities. 522 00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:16.200 The, um, the extras are a mix of nationalities as well. 523 00:33:16.259 --> 00:33:21.180 Unfortunately, the extras are mostly crap in terms of... 524 00:33:21.180 --> 00:33:26.759 To the point, there must have been something awful going on with the unions or the pacers because they really want to get shot, don't they? 525 00:33:26.819 --> 00:33:28.500 Yeah, well, that's awful. 526 00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:29.460 That's really great for you. 527 00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:31.440 I believe Ken Greaves says on the commentary. 528 00:33:31.500 --> 00:33:40.859 You know, I had such problems with this scene because I told them, you know, we didn't know what the dialect Ray did, but it's like it kills you in a 2nd. 529 00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:42.779 That must be painful at that out. 530 00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:44.039 And they said, you're not paying us to act. 531 00:33:44.099 --> 00:33:47.160 It doesn't have dropped. it was another union. 532 00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:48.539 And that's why they're smiling. 533 00:33:48.599 --> 00:33:50.460 Yeah, it's another union. 534 00:33:50.460 --> 00:33:51.599 We outsmarted the director. 535 00:33:51.660 --> 00:33:57.839 Yeah, well, it's your face looking stupid on this production. and showing that you can't act. 536 00:33:57.900 --> 00:34:01.019 You know, it's it's not a very smart decision, Saturday. 537 00:34:01.140 --> 00:34:05.579 But that is interesting you touch on that because we're going to see those problems as this season progresses. 538 00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:10.980 The BBC was very much at the point of things that maybe you and I would support the union movement. 539 00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:11.579 I certainly do. 540 00:34:11.639 --> 00:34:19.980 Oh, the emotion of it, but my God, there were some greedy people that got in there and ruined it, ruined the party for everybody else, and that's just one more example of it. 541 00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:25.019 You know, of course I support them saying, look, this isn't what we're getting paid for. 542 00:34:25.079 --> 00:34:32.820 But at the same time, and yeah, I've, when I came to work in television and they told me how much I was getting paid, I went very quiet on the phone. 543 00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:37.619 And the thing is, they thought I was reacting because it was a crap wage. 544 00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:42.239 And no, I was reacting to the fact that I'm sitting behind a computer. paid as much as I am to teach. 545 00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:44.340 So I'm fine with that. 546 00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:48.900 But at the same time, in my 1st contract, I was asked to do a lot of stuff that wasn't strictly in my job, but I thought... 547 00:34:48.900 --> 00:34:49.679 A lot of extra time. 548 00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:50.880 And a lot of extra time. 549 00:34:50.940 --> 00:34:51.360 But you know what? 550 00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:55.019 I thought, okay, I want to actually get somewhere in this industry. 551 00:34:55.019 --> 00:35:02.579 And it's sad that you can't get somewhere without giving a little bit extra to what you're asked to do. 552 00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:03.960 But it's like, you know what? 553 00:35:04.019 --> 00:35:05.880 Get to the point where you can say no. 554 00:35:05.940 --> 00:35:07.739 And that is capitalism, though. 555 00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:09.960 I'm being a little bit older than you. 556 00:35:10.019 --> 00:35:15.119 I have to say it never gets any better. it's actually getting worse than when it did when I started out. 557 00:35:15.179 --> 00:35:17.280 We're probably back to the script now, aren't we? 558 00:35:17.340 --> 00:35:25.920 Well, I'm just wondering how much more time it takes to do a bit of a vague scream and fall over rather than just lower yourself gently to the ground when the dalek shoots. 559 00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:27.420 With a big grin on your face. 560 00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:30.059 It is nice to see some old costumes in those scenes. 561 00:35:30.119 --> 00:35:33.840 Yeah, there's that huge guy who dresses like a draconian. 562 00:35:33.900 --> 00:35:35.940 I think he does that to relax, actually. 563 00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:37.500 Yeah, he'll get in anything. 564 00:35:37.559 --> 00:35:46.500 Well, that's sort of the equivalent of like a futuristic furry, you know, instead of dressing as a fox, you dress as a rectilian alien. 565 00:35:46.559 --> 00:35:49.199 There's a couple of merestrons, I believe. 566 00:35:49.260 --> 00:35:53.460 Someone's wearing someone's wearing desks, trousers from the robots of death. 567 00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:54.840 Oh, I should notice that. 568 00:35:54.900 --> 00:35:57.659 There's a kind of Charles Brosnan character too, isn't there? 569 00:35:57.719 --> 00:36:00.000 Is there a sort of, oh, but that's also Tom. 570 00:36:00.059 --> 00:36:06.360 Is this the 1st time we've ever seen Tom go the full Chuck Norris and threatened to blow up? 571 00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:09.239 And actually, well, he's halfhearted about it. 572 00:36:09.300 --> 00:36:15.780 But he does set the detonators off to kill Davros. when we get the whole back offline. 573 00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:21.659 Doesn't doesn't doesn't he let the Daleks kill 2 people before he responds? 574 00:36:21.719 --> 00:36:22.619 Really? 575 00:36:22.619 --> 00:36:23.460 But Patrick Track that? 576 00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:24.539 do that kind of thing too. 577 00:36:24.599 --> 00:36:25.019 You know? 578 00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:25.500 Yeah. 579 00:36:25.559 --> 00:36:30.300 But, you know, it's well, it harks back to his argument of, could you then kill that child? 580 00:36:30.360 --> 00:36:30.960 you know? 581 00:36:31.019 --> 00:36:34.679 He's like, what is one life worth to the daleks? 582 00:36:34.739 --> 00:36:36.179 And here, he's kind of inverting it. 583 00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:38.699 He's like, how many lives are worth Davros? 584 00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:40.380 And in the end it's two. 585 00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:41.639 Still pretty awful. 586 00:36:42.119 --> 00:36:43.260 Oh, yeah, it is awful. 587 00:36:43.320 --> 00:36:43.920 But that's the thing. 588 00:36:43.980 --> 00:36:47.340 This is Tom's moment in this story where he's not larking about. 589 00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:50.940 And we get we get the old fire and we get the old steel. 590 00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:52.920 And we get it in every story this season. 591 00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:54.000 Absolutely. 592 00:36:54.059 --> 00:36:54.239 Yeah. 593 00:36:54.300 --> 00:36:55.739 Yeah, yeah. pointing out each time. 594 00:36:55.800 --> 00:36:55.980 Yeah. 595 00:36:56.039 --> 00:36:56.699 No, it's really good. 596 00:36:56.760 --> 00:36:58.860 He really loses his temper. 597 00:36:58.920 --> 00:37:06.840 It makes those moments even more effective because, you know, one moment he's gabbling on about Alpha Centauri winning the table tennis championships or whatever it was. 598 00:37:06.900 --> 00:37:09.659 The intergalactic games. 599 00:37:09.719 --> 00:37:11.699 And then the next I ducked it. 600 00:37:11.820 --> 00:37:16.440 It's a very Douglas Adams thing, he does it in Hitchcock because he does it in Duke gently. 601 00:37:16.500 --> 00:37:25.559 It's you build up tension with humour, with attention, correspondent to that, so that when you take the humour away, the tension is ramped up. 602 00:37:25.619 --> 00:37:26.219 Yeah. 603 00:37:26.219 --> 00:37:27.719 You really see it in City of Death. 604 00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:28.800 Yeah, absolutely. 605 00:37:28.860 --> 00:37:31.920 We have an obelisk circling around us, gentlemen. 606 00:37:31.980 --> 00:37:34.800 Todd has a question you'd like to ask about Daros. 607 00:37:34.860 --> 00:37:36.000 Dar Ross. 608 00:37:36.059 --> 00:37:37.619 Sorry, I was being King Greve. 609 00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:45.000 So you'll be pleased to note that I've installed a brand new device in my time bubble. 610 00:37:45.059 --> 00:37:48.840 It's called the Randomiser, and it takes me to stories of varying quality. 611 00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:49.920 You know what? 612 00:37:49.980 --> 00:37:51.900 I actually quite like a lot of this story. 613 00:37:51.960 --> 00:37:53.699 I really like the boney M's. 614 00:37:53.820 --> 00:37:59.099 I mean the Movellans, and I like all of the location work around the ruins. 615 00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:02.039 But what is it, guys, with the Daleks? 616 00:38:02.039 --> 00:38:03.840 And with Davros? 617 00:38:03.900 --> 00:38:05.699 The dog is dire. 618 00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:08.699 And what do you think of David Goodison's performance? 619 00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:09.840 Why does it fail? 620 00:38:09.900 --> 00:38:12.539 I've got to activate the randomiser? 621 00:38:12.599 --> 00:38:18.840 Apparently, it works on the process of potluck, or as I like to call it, I'm taking a gamble with time. 622 00:38:21.960 --> 00:38:29.099 I remember being horrendously, hideously crushed with disappointment when I first saw Davros. 623 00:38:29.159 --> 00:38:32.760 So, Davros is the... he's the end of episode two reveal, isn't he? 624 00:38:32.820 --> 00:38:39.420 He doesn't appear for the first couple of episodes, we get our traditional end of episode one is the Daleks appear. 625 00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:41.639 Then we get Davros appear at the end of episode two. 626 00:38:41.699 --> 00:38:44.159 So he only gets 2 episodes where he gets dialogue. 627 00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:47.159 The mask is vastly worse. 628 00:38:47.280 --> 00:38:48.420 It's the same mask. 629 00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:51.239 The same mask. glueing it to the guy's face. 630 00:38:51.300 --> 00:38:54.239 Because David Gooderson's head is bigger than Michael wishes. 631 00:38:54.300 --> 00:38:56.159 They had to split it up the back. 632 00:38:56.219 --> 00:38:58.320 And it still didn't fit properly. 633 00:38:58.380 --> 00:39:02.820 So, you know, it's his own chin, rub and the chin of the mask. 634 00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:03.900 Yeah, it was a mess. 635 00:39:03.960 --> 00:39:05.699 Yeah, it just looks terrible. 636 00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:06.960 I mean, it looks terrible. 637 00:39:07.019 --> 00:39:10.920 And like it allowed Michael Wisher to show his bottom lip. 638 00:39:10.980 --> 00:39:13.739 Like they just coloured Michael Wish's bottom lip. 639 00:39:13.800 --> 00:39:16.800 But there's something odd about Goodison's face. 640 00:39:16.860 --> 00:39:25.320 I'm not sure what he looks like, although I think he's the barman in the 1st episode of Hitchhikers, the TV series. 641 00:39:25.380 --> 00:39:27.480 He can't do the voice. 642 00:39:27.539 --> 00:39:28.980 No, it's really weird. 643 00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:30.360 He's not showing the accent. 644 00:39:30.420 --> 00:39:33.900 And like, I think they do treat the voice later. 645 00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:37.679 I gathered that he was picked because he could do impressions. 646 00:39:37.860 --> 00:39:40.500 No, they actually did careful auditions. 647 00:39:40.559 --> 00:39:43.619 As they did with the K9, Yeah, they were doing it last year. 648 00:39:43.679 --> 00:39:48.599 David Bryant, it was picked, of course, he was the best available and David Goodison was also the best. 649 00:39:48.659 --> 00:39:50.219 Yes, he was picked because he can do impressions. 650 00:39:50.280 --> 00:40:05.519 Yeah, because, I mean, I think Michael Wisher, when we did our Pertwee retrospect, if I said that I thought Michael Wisher was the best guest star in the Pertwee era as car league, I think he's just terrifically funny, and his performances, Davros is really extremely good. 651 00:40:05.579 --> 00:40:12.119 Yeah, even though coming up, Terry Malloy gives a completely different performance from Michael Wisher, it's still very good. 652 00:40:12.300 --> 00:40:18.239 It does the thing that we should does of having 2 voices. 653 00:40:18.300 --> 00:40:21.119 You know, he's got the ranty, shouty voice. 654 00:40:21.179 --> 00:40:27.000 And then he's got that sort of Philip Maddock, quiet, menacing voice. 655 00:40:27.059 --> 00:40:30.360 David Gooderson is just always somewhere in between. 656 00:40:30.420 --> 00:40:35.639 It's not it's not quiet and but it's not shouting megalomaniacal. 657 00:40:35.699 --> 00:40:37.980 Yeah, it's just not good. 658 00:40:38.039 --> 00:40:39.960 It's not like Davros. 659 00:40:40.019 --> 00:40:44.699 I mean, I think I think Julian Bleach puts in a quite different performance as well, isn't that? 660 00:40:44.760 --> 00:40:45.719 Pretty spectacular, yeah. 661 00:40:45.780 --> 00:40:46.380 It is. 662 00:40:46.440 --> 00:40:48.599 You know, like, I think he's probably better than Wishan. 663 00:40:48.599 --> 00:40:55.079 He's helped by the fact that he's given a mask that lets him act, whereas we should have, you know, had a rubber bag on his head. 664 00:40:55.199 --> 00:41:03.300 But that all of them get, that sort of gentle, quiet voice being happening. as well as the scary Randy voice. 665 00:41:03.480 --> 00:41:12.059 Gudeson isn't used as anything so much as a toddler in a wheelchair being pushed around at a fun fair, is he? 666 00:41:12.059 --> 00:41:13.139 No, exactly. 667 00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:16.739 You know, yeah, he's not given a great script to work with. 668 00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:34.920 And the weird thing is, Tom, in those scenes, it's like he's still acting against Michael Wisher, you know, he's every bidding good, as good in the scenes with Davros, here as he was with the scenes with Davros in Genesis, despite the fact that Gudison isn't anywhere approaching that. 669 00:41:34.980 --> 00:41:48.000 There's the scene in episode 4 later on where they talk about the, you know, those sort of weird paradox that they found themselves in with the stalemate computers thing, you know, which virtually echos the, you know, let us talk as men of science. 670 00:41:48.059 --> 00:41:50.340 It is a very similar scene. 671 00:41:50.400 --> 00:42:04.920 I mean, even Terry has realised that putting Davros and the doctor together and just getting them to talk is pretty spectacular and that seems to have been the basis for the witches familiar in this year's Doctor Who. 672 00:42:04.980 --> 00:42:07.139 You know, it's something that works reliably. 673 00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:09.780 But Gooderson's performance isn't really up to it. 674 00:42:09.900 --> 00:42:12.780 Something I do like about Davros in this. 675 00:42:12.840 --> 00:42:20.940 And you could see it as a plot hole is, of course, the doctor resolves everything by arm wrestling, Davros, and, you know, forcing him to press the button himself. 676 00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:23.880 And some might ask, why has he got the destruct button on his chair? 677 00:42:23.940 --> 00:42:29.579 Well, the last time he put a really important button on the other side of the room, he got exterminated, didn't he? 678 00:42:29.639 --> 00:42:31.440 He hasn't had time to put that in yet. 679 00:42:31.500 --> 00:42:38.039 He did also have the button that turned his uh turned his life support system off on his chair as well. 680 00:42:38.099 --> 00:42:41.039 Which seemed like a fairly pointless one. 681 00:42:41.159 --> 00:42:42.840 We talked about that at the time. 682 00:42:42.840 --> 00:42:45.719 Yeah, sort of risque fun and games with neither. 683 00:42:45.900 --> 00:42:48.719 It doesn't have neither this time either. 684 00:42:48.780 --> 00:42:50.699 And, you know, it doesn't. 685 00:42:50.699 --> 00:42:53.039 There's no analogue to Nider. either. 686 00:42:53.099 --> 00:42:55.619 You know, there's no sort of assistant character. 687 00:42:55.679 --> 00:43:04.500 And, you know, when he gets to Terry Malloy, the only kind of assistance, he has, he has to brainwash, you know, I think the story of Dazros in the original series is all about how he's missing Nider. 688 00:43:04.559 --> 00:43:06.599 Well, I'm missing night. 689 00:43:06.659 --> 00:43:07.440 Yeah, me too. 690 00:43:07.500 --> 00:43:09.420 That's all I wanted to know. 691 00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:12.900 Romana versus Cheryl. 692 00:43:12.960 --> 00:43:15.000 She does kick his arm off. 693 00:43:15.059 --> 00:43:17.159 Does it really? 694 00:43:17.159 --> 00:43:17.820 Yeah, yeah. 695 00:43:17.880 --> 00:43:25.860 Romana versus Cheryl. yeah Actually, that would be a fun little UFC electronic game, wouldn't it? 696 00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:28.260 to see Romana and Cheryl. 697 00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:32.400 This is from, if anyone's wondering, because you know, we like to play antecedents. 698 00:43:32.460 --> 00:43:53.400 There's a magazine called Astounding Science Fiction, which was one of the seminals, you know, the pulp fiction stuff. 1953 in March, Robert Sheckley wrote a story called Fools Mate, which was essentially 2 vast Battle Fleet suspended in space, pointing at each other for decades until one of them worked out how to pull a random. 699 00:43:53.460 --> 00:43:56.699 They could just call a random function. 700 00:43:56.699 --> 00:43:57.179 They could. 701 00:43:57.239 --> 00:44:07.500 But more interestingly, and we're going to get this through this season, the counterculture of the 70s has really come home to Doctor Who now with Adams and Lala and Tom and Williams. 702 00:44:07.559 --> 00:44:13.380 The biggest giveaway in this is the rock, paper, scissors, the random thing, but people were tossing coins. 703 00:44:13.500 --> 00:44:14.880 We'll see that next season as well. 704 00:44:14.940 --> 00:44:16.139 People were tossing coins. 705 00:44:16.139 --> 00:44:27.420 It was actually part of a deliberate Hayde Ashbury kind of thinking positioning itself against the reductionism of the military thinking, Vietnam and post-Vietnam. 706 00:44:27.539 --> 00:44:55.860 And when we were talking before about battle fleets and poising, this actually has a direct correlation to published outcomes of military theory when we were talking about Von Neumann's game theory, and also Alfred Northwhited's symbolic logic, which is actually cited in this, which, if you know, computer language, and or Nand, nor those gates, which is, you know, giving numerical values to score the success for particular. tested strategy. 707 00:44:55.920 --> 00:44:58.559 But using this system, it came out in 69. 708 00:44:58.739 --> 00:45:04.380 The algorithms anachronistically demonstrated that the US had won in Vietnam in 1965. 709 00:45:05.219 --> 00:45:20.460 So there was this whole thing that's coming about to get us out of this war getting, you know, Nixon, of course, falling apart with Watergate, the oil crash, the dollar being removed from the gold standard. 710 00:45:20.519 --> 00:45:25.800 In America was really, and therefore, the rest of the world, Britain was having the same problem with the resources as we're going to be seeing. 711 00:45:25.860 --> 00:45:42.780 The counterculture was saying, bring back the human element, bring back the random happenstance of human folly and fun, and that's, I think, certainly a driver for Douglas Adams, who, of course, had his final year at Cambridge in '74, when this information was all coming out. 712 00:45:42.840 --> 00:45:45.659 So we're going to be seeing a lot of that this year. 713 00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:48.119 And the vellans are just toking it, aren't they? 714 00:45:48.179 --> 00:45:57.420 It's no wonder they've been sitting around not being able to win a war because they're spliffing it up in there with their raster rolls and they're, of course, they're one of those green things on their shoulders. 715 00:45:57.480 --> 00:46:02.820 I don't I think that's the same stuff that villas being sucking away on in the liberator for the last summer. 716 00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:04.019 Bong water. 717 00:46:04.139 --> 00:46:04.980 Exactly. 718 00:46:05.039 --> 00:46:08.280 It explains what Davros is shrouded in at the end. 719 00:46:08.340 --> 00:46:09.539 It's not cryogenic gas. 720 00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:19.199 Don't you love that they've actually got a perfectly sized daddy and Davros caviare cum freezer casket on the Mavellan ship? 721 00:46:19.260 --> 00:46:20.519 He must be delicious. 722 00:46:20.579 --> 00:46:24.119 He must be delicious, but they didn't know they were going to find Dar Ross. 723 00:46:24.179 --> 00:46:24.840 I didn't know that. 724 00:46:24.900 --> 00:46:26.820 I would continue doing that for the rest of the podcast. 725 00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:27.719 Oh, of course. 726 00:46:27.780 --> 00:46:36.119 Just interesting what you said there about counterculture because the other big BBC series happening about counterculture and reintroducing the human element. 727 00:46:36.179 --> 00:46:39.599 Blake 7. is going on at this time. 728 00:46:39.659 --> 00:46:45.239 And Terry Nation ends his involvement with Doctor Who this year. 729 00:46:45.300 --> 00:46:46.079 Yep, yep. 730 00:46:46.079 --> 00:46:48.360 And with Blake 7 this year. 731 00:46:48.420 --> 00:46:52.199 Terry Nations takes a step back from Blake 7 after this year. 732 00:46:52.260 --> 00:46:55.800 Blake 7 series 3 in 1980, had a lot of other writers working on it. 733 00:46:55.860 --> 00:46:57.000 Phew. 734 00:46:57.059 --> 00:47:03.719 Series one is him, but it's him in the sense that this story is him. 735 00:47:03.780 --> 00:47:05.519 Yeah, him via Chris Bounce show. 736 00:47:05.579 --> 00:47:06.059 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 737 00:47:06.119 --> 00:47:06.480 It's him. 738 00:47:06.539 --> 00:47:12.539 He wrote the 1st script and by the end it was, you know, like a summary on the back of a napkin for episode 13. 739 00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:27.420 Yeah, he, you know, he was certainly writing less and less as the series went on and then wrote nothing for the 4th series because he was moving to America where, you know, he became quite a, quite a success in Hollywood and wrote, wrote in scripted, things like MacGyver and what have you. 740 00:47:27.480 --> 00:47:29.460 You know, he had quite a good career there. 741 00:47:29.519 --> 00:47:47.519 But it's very interesting that someone who is so traditional in his storytelling and wasn't resistant, say, to strong female characters, but had to have it pointed out to him that Terry might be an idea to have some strong women in your script, to which point he'd go, oh, oh yes, if you think so. 742 00:47:47.579 --> 00:47:47.940 All right. 743 00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:53.699 It's interesting that he did sort of seem to embrace this counterculture. 744 00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:56.820 And despite sort of his very gun mentality of writing. 745 00:47:57.179 --> 00:48:06.179 Always did seem to be interested in the human element and the idea of humanity, triumphing over mechanisation. 746 00:48:06.239 --> 00:48:09.780 We see that in the early Dalek stories of his Dalek flicks. 747 00:48:09.840 --> 00:48:12.780 So he's not entirely horrid, is he? 748 00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:14.699 No, no, he's not Eric Sable. 749 00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:43.260 Well, dear listeners, we've hit the randomiser, and we're taking off from Skaro, who knows where we'll end up next, depending on which way you look at it, we're either gonna end up in Paris, or possibly on board the Azure Starline up, don't... 750 00:48:43.320 --> 00:48:44.760 Don't forget to come back next week. 751 00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:47.400 Don't forget. 752 00:48:47.579 --> 00:48:49.980 I reckon he's bit. 753 00:48:50.039 --> 00:48:50.880 Oh, this is good. 754 00:48:50.940 --> 00:48:51.539 Get it in. 755 00:48:51.599 --> 00:48:56.039 Don't forget to come back next week where we'll be discussing City of Death. 756 00:48:56.099 --> 00:49:02.280 You can also check out bondfinger.com, where we have commentaries for the 1st 5 Sean Connery Bond films. 757 00:49:02.340 --> 00:49:09.360 Don't forget, you can find us online at flightsthroughentirety.com, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on Twitter. 758 00:49:09.420 --> 00:49:18.420 Until we see you next, make all your globules of little protoplasm that sit around on your home planet, not get delusions of grandeur and reprogram your battle computers. 759 00:49:18.480 --> 00:49:19.559 Thank you very much and good night. 760 00:49:19.619 --> 00:49:20.579 Good night. 761 00:49:20.699 --> 00:49:21.300 Good everyone. 762 00:49:22.260 --> 00:49:27.599 That let's fight through entirety with Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones and Richard Stone. 763 00:49:27.659 --> 00:49:33.539 This episode, circuit boards glued to a piece of wood was recorded on the 6th of December, 2015. 764 00:49:33.780 --> 00:49:37.440 The next episode will be released on January 24th, 2016. 765 00:49:37.619 --> 00:49:45.480 We dedicate this episode to Terry Nation, creator of survivors, Blake 7, the Daleks, the Kraals, the Mecanoids, and the alien Vorb. 766 00:49:49.079 --> 00:49:52.199 Okay, Destiny Empity, boy. 767 00:49:52.260 --> 00:49:52.619 Sorry. 768 00:49:52.679 --> 00:49:53.400 That's okay. 769 00:49:53.460 --> 00:49:54.539 Destiny of the Dalek. 770 00:49:55.860 --> 00:49:58.079 Destiny of the Daleks. 771 00:49:58.139 --> 00:49:59.699 Dog ass. 772 00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:01.380 Keep that in. 773 00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:02.699 That's the name of the episode. 774 00:50:02.820 --> 00:50:03.719 Sog ass. 775 00:50:03.780 --> 00:50:04.199 Yeah. 776 00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:06.900 Sixth of December. 777 00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:10.320 Actually, and there's your there's your tag. 778 00:50:13.559 --> 00:50:17.760 I won't have you flushing my dog's ass about on a podcast. 779 00:50:17.820 --> 00:50:20.400 Oh, he looks so dignified.