WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:28:56

1
00:00:28.980 --> 00:00:39.060
Hello, dear listeners, and welcome to Flightthrow Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast to have worked with Professor Stein before he died, and then we stopped.

2
00:00:39.119 --> 00:00:40.380
I'm Brendan.

3
00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:41.939
I'm Nathan.

4
00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:46.920
I was going to say I'm the faceless ones in a 3D sauna that I'm really just stunned.

5
00:00:48.780 --> 00:00:56.579
And I think we're all going to be stunned as we head into some wonderful CSO video model work in Nightmare of Eden.

6
00:01:05.819 --> 00:01:10.200
It's, um, it's Bob Baker solo after the great divorce.

7
00:01:10.260 --> 00:01:12.900
That's a video I never, ever want to see.

8
00:01:12.959 --> 00:01:16.439
It's like 1979's worst album release ever.

9
00:01:16.980 --> 00:01:19.980
But it turns out... for cleaning that up.

10
00:01:20.040 --> 00:01:20.340
Yeah.

11
00:01:20.340 --> 00:01:26.400
It does turn out that Dave Martin was to blame for everything.

12
00:01:26.459 --> 00:01:28.799
Yeah, but they can actually write.

13
00:01:28.859 --> 00:01:30.900
This isn't surprisingly good.

14
00:01:30.959 --> 00:01:34.680
There was a lot of reworking on the studio floor.

15
00:01:34.739 --> 00:01:39.840
Lewis Fianders brilliant interpretation of our Brendan.

16
00:01:39.959 --> 00:01:44.280
And he threw that in, as you know, on the floor to lighten up the mood.

17
00:01:44.340 --> 00:01:45.540
There's some great.

18
00:01:45.540 --> 00:01:46.079
It's terrible.

19
00:01:46.140 --> 00:01:47.280
Yeah, really.

20
00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:48.480
He's nearly wrecked.

21
00:01:48.540 --> 00:01:54.180
And yet some of the best model effects shot in one of the worst manners you could possibly do that blew the budget.

22
00:01:54.239 --> 00:02:01.140
It has... a nice, tight, and an, interesting script.

23
00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:02.099
It has some terrific.

24
00:02:02.159 --> 00:02:03.239
Hello, David Dacre.

25
00:02:03.299 --> 00:02:08.819
It has some terrific actors, a guest artist, and we can thank Alan Bromley for the casting.

26
00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:12.300
Yeah, and we can also thank Conor Bromley for a lot of other things, can't we?

27
00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:17.699
Alan Bromley being for the listener at home who's never bothered to watch this and you don't need to if we'll talk to us talking about it.

28
00:02:17.759 --> 00:02:18.719
The director.

29
00:02:18.780 --> 00:02:21.719
And he also directed one of my all-time favies.

30
00:02:21.780 --> 00:02:28.319
The time was a potato man meets mediaeval beak noises. which also featured David Dacre.

31
00:02:28.379 --> 00:02:34.080
Alan Bromley have a, he had the tendency to just kind of down tools and walk off the set.

32
00:02:34.139 --> 00:02:35.219
Not exactly.

33
00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:36.060
It's strange.

34
00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:41.819
He was sort of this contradiction in that he was a very old school director and by this point he was semi-retired. was in his 60s.

35
00:02:41.879 --> 00:02:44.039
We're talking Ali Pali era.

36
00:02:44.099 --> 00:02:45.419
Right, directing, yeah.

37
00:02:45.479 --> 00:02:54.599
But at the same time, he was very dynamic in the sense that he was changing things after a week's rehearsal on the studio floor.

38
00:02:54.659 --> 00:02:59.580
And that was the main thing that caused tension between himself and the other actors, and particularly Tom.

39
00:02:59.639 --> 00:03:15.900
It didn't make sense that an old TV director who cut his teeth in the early days of BBC and therefore knew that everything is immobile except the upper 3rd of the actor's face because that's all you can move.

40
00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:16.439
No, it's true.

41
00:03:16.500 --> 00:03:19.379
That's why Billy used to wave the hands is because I can't move from my shot.

42
00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:20.580
Your mark is your mark.

43
00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:23.939
And we'll get to that a bit later, weren't we, when a certain thing happened on the studio floor?

44
00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:24.539
Indeed.

45
00:03:24.539 --> 00:03:25.439
About marks?

46
00:03:26.759 --> 00:03:31.979
But it makes no sense to me why he was at cross purposes with his own intentions.

47
00:03:32.039 --> 00:03:33.120
And you get that.

48
00:03:33.240 --> 00:03:36.240
Do you think that's why this story should be good and isn't good?

49
00:03:36.300 --> 00:03:37.500
We've got to that already.

50
00:03:37.560 --> 00:03:42.419
The odd thing is, I've Surprise, surprise, deal, listen, I've always rather enjoyed this one.

51
00:03:42.479 --> 00:04:07.319
And when I was learning about the directorial problems, which you can see in the info text on the DVD, I was quite amazed because I don't see say that much wrong with the direction as we sometimes get in the 1980s where it's just a matter of, okay, Peter, Janet, Mark, you've got one minute to do this 3 minute scene, go, we'll cut as we go.

52
00:04:07.379 --> 00:04:12.960
I don't get that same sense here, but maybe that's down to the cast kind of going.

53
00:04:13.020 --> 00:04:16.439
We can't allow these problems behind the scenes to come across on screen.

54
00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:20.459
And I'm just going to go on record as saying I actually really like Trist's accent.

55
00:04:20.519 --> 00:04:21.959
Gosh, it's terrible.

56
00:04:22.019 --> 00:04:27.180
It's this sort of some Peter Sellers thing that he's got going. deliberately thinks that's funny.

57
00:04:27.240 --> 00:04:29.819
But do you know why he did it?

58
00:04:29.879 --> 00:04:37.259
Yeah, because they were all having such miserable time in rehearsal because Bromley was really cantankerous and angry and he shouldn't have been brought back.

59
00:04:37.319 --> 00:04:40.019
It was kind of a favour from Williams, wasn't it, too?

60
00:04:40.019 --> 00:04:41.399
Keep getting moving.

61
00:04:41.399 --> 00:04:42.600
So what he was...

62
00:04:42.660 --> 00:04:43.500
Yeah.

63
00:04:43.500 --> 00:04:46.439
So Fiander was doing it to make the rest of the class.

64
00:04:46.500 --> 00:04:48.839
Just make everyone laugh because Brombie was just being a monster.

65
00:04:48.899 --> 00:04:52.319
And yes, as you say, notes coming down from the control room constantly.

66
00:04:52.379 --> 00:04:54.120
Yeah, you know, can you change this?

67
00:04:54.180 --> 00:05:04.620
But another reason Lewis founder did that accent or what he said in later years was that he read the script and found out, spoiler alert, dear listeners, he's one of the villains at the end.

68
00:05:04.920 --> 00:05:13.379
And he thought, you know what, if I make myself ridiculous, it will be a surprise to the viewer when I'm revealed as a villain.

69
00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:16.379
Yeah, but he...

70
00:05:16.379 --> 00:05:17.279
It's extremely terrible.

71
00:05:17.339 --> 00:05:26.879
I don't know whether we've mentioned this before, but Douglas Adams has this thing that he says about the problem with the way that actors respond to a script that's funny.

72
00:05:26.939 --> 00:05:32.279
And he thinks comedy should be played straight. that makes it more effective.

73
00:05:32.339 --> 00:05:34.319
In the pirate planet, for instance.

74
00:05:34.379 --> 00:05:35.699
There's all these jokes and things.

75
00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:45.060
And then we discovered that this massive atrocity is happening and all of these worlds are being destroyed and the jokes and the horror of that kind of work really well together.

76
00:05:45.120 --> 00:05:48.000
And it's a very Adams way of writing, actually.

77
00:05:48.120 --> 00:05:50.819
Yeah, it's an interesting that they held it over for the next season.

78
00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:55.800
But that you create you make jokes to increase the dichotomy and therefore the tension when it's released.

79
00:05:55.860 --> 00:06:06.240
But what he, what Adams always says is that when actors see that, then they come in and do funny voices and funny walks and that kind of thing and just undermine it completely.

80
00:06:06.300 --> 00:06:10.740
And I just think that Fi Anders thing is the absolute canonical example of that.

81
00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:18.480
It really, really a shame, and it just renders every scene that he's in sort of distractingly kind of ridiculous.

82
00:06:18.600 --> 00:06:19.740
Wow.

83
00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:21.600
Yeah, no, I'm very cross about it.

84
00:06:21.600 --> 00:06:25.740
Because like you, I actually think that this is really good.

85
00:06:25.800 --> 00:06:34.800
And I think it displays some of the Baker and Martin problems, but it doesn't fall into the trap that they usually fall into.

86
00:06:34.860 --> 00:06:41.100
So I think the problem is the characters are all sort of rather broadly drawn and sort of fairly terrible.

87
00:06:41.160 --> 00:06:53.759
But the Baker and Martin problem of coming up with, you know, an idea and then abandoning it after 5 to 7 minutes only to run after a new shiny idea, which was really, really evident in, say, Armageddon factor.

88
00:06:53.819 --> 00:07:03.060
Here, I think there's three main ideas, and they're all linked, and they're all kind of involved in the plot, and they all resolve themselves at more or less the same time.

89
00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:14.279
And I don't know whether that's just because Bob Baker's having a good day or whether it's the influence of Douglas Adams, because Douglas Adams is someone who plots things.

90
00:07:14.339 --> 00:07:25.620
You know, you kind of think of him as a fairly shambolic writer, and you've got hitchhikers, which is famous for being made up while the actors are in the other room, you know, waiting for their lines to appear.

91
00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:33.360
But his books are really tightly plus. ploss You can see the way the man's mind worked and what it was was over.

92
00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:41.759
And again, everyone gives Joss Whedon the credits for story arcing in the meeting, but it's actually atoms with hitchhikers and now with Doctor Who.

93
00:07:41.819 --> 00:07:44.160
This whole season has a thread we touched on last time.

94
00:07:44.220 --> 00:07:49.800
And the individual against order, if you like, against boredom, capitalism, whatever you want to call it.

95
00:07:49.860 --> 00:07:52.379
It's all dovetotals, beautifully.

96
00:07:52.439 --> 00:08:01.680
This one, again, is really nicely arcing Adam's feel, and you can follow those threads you're talking about through how this flows.

97
00:08:01.740 --> 00:08:07.199
And there's a very dark and real, not say dark, it's just truthful concept of how drugs are bad.

98
00:08:07.500 --> 00:08:09.060
They are.

99
00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:12.360
And just, and it shows me how things fall apart.

100
00:08:12.420 --> 00:08:14.339
The David Dacre character is the linchpin of that.

101
00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:16.259
And he plays it for real.

102
00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:18.480
Yeah, it's it's, it doesn't.

103
00:08:18.540 --> 00:08:20.399
Well, he doesn't...

104
00:08:20.459 --> 00:08:31.139
The rule one of drugs on TV is everyone on TV has much better drugs than you because like no one ever behaves on drugs like they behave on drugs on television.

105
00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:34.740
We haven't seen what drugs or zip as it was called.

106
00:08:34.799 --> 00:08:37.080
We haven't seen what Redstone actually can do that.

107
00:08:37.139 --> 00:08:40.620
And if you've seen, you know, television or crystal method.

108
00:08:40.679 --> 00:08:42.179
That's actually over.

109
00:08:42.299 --> 00:08:43.799
Yeah, I think he underplays a high.

110
00:08:43.860 --> 00:08:51.240
Well, that's the thing is what, you know, he plays what we would see, someone as having been on very hard drugs for a very long time coming down.

111
00:08:51.299 --> 00:08:53.159
Well, we don't have time to do that in Doctor Who.

112
00:08:53.220 --> 00:09:00.960
So we have this space drug which gives you 150000 hits all at once and then the and then the resulting withdrawal.

113
00:09:01.019 --> 00:09:02.460
Not the internet, really.

114
00:09:02.519 --> 00:09:04.620
Popularity on the internet.

115
00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:12.659
So, you know, it's not necessarily a gritty, realistic portrayal of drugs, but it's as realistic portrayal of drugs as Doctor Who can do.

116
00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:14.519
And that scene where he attacks Romana.

117
00:09:14.580 --> 00:09:19.799
It is harrowing and both actors are playing it incredibly well.

118
00:09:19.860 --> 00:09:28.379
A few weeks ago, I criticised Lala's reaction to the Daleks as being a bit too scared, but I think Romana plays the fear in that scene very well.

119
00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:38.879
She's kind of doing the thing that we credit Elizabeth Sladen a lot for, you know, being scared and being brave at the same time because she knows that she has to do this scientific gobbledygook thing.

120
00:09:38.940 --> 00:09:43.080
And that's her that's her driving force in the scene and this is her obstacle.

121
00:09:43.139 --> 00:09:52.620
But for once, you know, as we've come to expect Romana just sort of brushing aside anything that's far too dull and uninteresting for her.

122
00:09:52.679 --> 00:09:56.340
She's like, no, I actually have to deal with this real world thing that's happening.

123
00:09:56.399 --> 00:10:10.620
And it's it's quite interesting that Romona, with all her power as a time lord, that she's demonstrated in all of her stories up and down to this point, she doesn't get herself out of that situation.

124
00:10:10.679 --> 00:10:20.700
And it's kind of sending the message that there are dangerous situations in the real world, which you may get yourself into trouble too, if you approach.

125
00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:40.919
You know, if she hadn't, say, just karate chopped him in the neck, you could see that as irresponsible, because that's kind of saying to children, well, if someone's acting manic, you know, just karate chopped them in the neck, whereas actually Romana's like, I'm trying to avoid this terrible situation and gets rescued by Jeffrey Hinsliff as Fisk, who at one point calls Trist Fisk.

126
00:10:40.980 --> 00:10:52.919
And it's, it is this kind of strange, very real danger in the middle of this story about polycyrene monsters who crumble and turn into analylicit substance.

127
00:10:52.980 --> 00:10:56.820
So terrifying they couldn't be seen on the photo shoot.

128
00:10:56.879 --> 00:10:57.779
That's right.

129
00:10:57.840 --> 00:10:58.139
Yes.

130
00:10:58.740 --> 00:11:04.139
Before we go to that, we're talking about verisimilitude within performances, aren't we?

131
00:11:04.200 --> 00:11:05.159
within the narrative.

132
00:11:05.220 --> 00:11:17.100
And look, I'm sort of in the middle, literally at this table as well, but thinking that, yeah, I can see where they're going with this, and certainly when I was young, thinking again, 1st time watching this, which is always the freshest interpretation.

133
00:11:17.159 --> 00:11:18.480
I got that too.

134
00:11:18.539 --> 00:11:24.299
But in the end, it was really about Cantel, mostly, that's actually what the drug shoot.

135
00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:30.360
And it was originally going to be called zip, the episode, but Lala and Williams thought that that was actually making drugs to his too cool.

136
00:11:30.419 --> 00:11:44.820
I think this narrative, like you're saying, Brendan, really, really achieves its end far greater than Nancy Reagan ever could, because it makes drugs look not just utterly uncle, but kind of something you just don't really want to get involved with because it just looks a little bit messy.

137
00:11:44.879 --> 00:11:46.440
What did you think?

138
00:11:46.500 --> 00:11:48.899
I think it's a strange place for Doctor Who to go.

139
00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:52.019
And it's something that it doesn't really do again.

140
00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:55.379
And I think it is a bit heavy handed.

141
00:11:55.440 --> 00:11:58.320
And I'm not sure that element of the plot really works.

142
00:11:58.379 --> 00:12:04.860
I'm not quite sure who offscreen is drunking people's drinks and why.

143
00:12:04.919 --> 00:12:06.240
So...

144
00:12:06.240 --> 00:12:07.559
I always assumed it was Trist.

145
00:12:07.620 --> 00:12:13.019
Yeah, so David Dacre gets a dose intended for Romana.

146
00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:13.379
Yes.

147
00:12:13.379 --> 00:12:16.620
And the co-pilot or the navigator in episode one.

148
00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:19.200
Oh, he's being drunk, so they cause the crash.

149
00:12:19.259 --> 00:12:21.360
No, no, he hasn't been drugged.

150
00:12:21.419 --> 00:12:22.559
He is taking the drug.

151
00:12:22.620 --> 00:12:23.879
Like he has his own supply.

152
00:12:23.940 --> 00:12:25.259
Oh okay.

153
00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:27.419
Which he possibly got from Trist.

154
00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:29.100
It's never confirmed one way or the other.

155
00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:32.879
Yeah, see, there is some slack slackness to that part.

156
00:12:32.940 --> 00:12:34.500
And we shouldn't be having to sit here and puzzle that out.

157
00:12:34.559 --> 00:12:35.759
That stuff should be obvious.

158
00:12:35.820 --> 00:12:37.559
I mean, it's not as entertaining as funny.

159
00:12:37.559 --> 00:12:44.340
Felicity Kendall's, you know, entomological love child is actually the one slipping them everything, don't you think?

160
00:12:44.399 --> 00:12:45.480
It's not really about that.

161
00:12:45.539 --> 00:12:47.639
It's not it's not the unicorn the wasp.

162
00:12:47.700 --> 00:12:48.840
It's just, that was fun.

163
00:12:48.899 --> 00:12:51.720
You're looking for a mystery thing going on, okay.

164
00:12:51.779 --> 00:12:52.919
What was the drug in that tea?

165
00:12:53.580 --> 00:13:01.080
Well, I want to know why it's called Raxoan instead of Raxoan as well, because clearly it's like space heroin, isn't it?

166
00:13:01.139 --> 00:13:02.100
But it was it.

167
00:13:02.100 --> 00:13:04.799
Yeah, I know, but they call it Rexuan.

168
00:13:04.860 --> 00:13:07.019
There is a reference to zip.

169
00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:09.360
Like XYP is the fungus that it comes from.

170
00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:11.940
That was how it was sort of going to be referred to.

171
00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:15.240
I just realised that means the mandrals are fungal creatures.

172
00:13:15.299 --> 00:13:16.320
They are.

173
00:13:16.379 --> 00:13:18.840
They had those huge moustaches.

174
00:13:18.899 --> 00:13:27.179
I actually thought it was a statement, a really prescient statement on the drug culture coming up in the 80s because they all look like Freddie Mercury plush toys.

175
00:13:27.240 --> 00:13:33.059
I actually think it's just really damp on Eden and they're not very careful with their personal hygiene that would be.

176
00:13:33.179 --> 00:13:36.059
Well, they were originally scripted as mud monsters.

177
00:13:36.120 --> 00:13:38.159
You know, and then that was changed.

178
00:13:38.220 --> 00:13:39.179
What do you think of them?

179
00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:40.500
I think they're terribly cute.

180
00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:42.480
They are very...

181
00:13:42.480 --> 00:13:43.620
You do want to hug them, don't you?

182
00:13:43.740 --> 00:13:47.279
Yeah, they're terribly sweet Which is good in a way because they're not evil.

183
00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:48.179
No.

184
00:13:48.179 --> 00:13:51.059
You know, they're just beasts.

185
00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:52.620
I think a big problem with that.

186
00:13:52.620 --> 00:13:55.679
Like mini moustachioed tall things were in the late 70s.

187
00:13:55.740 --> 00:13:58.620
Including, yeah, most of the crew on their ship.

188
00:13:58.679 --> 00:13:59.940
There is that flavour.

189
00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:05.279
But Alan Bromley has no hint of being theatrically minded in other ways.

190
00:14:05.340 --> 00:14:08.340
I think that's just the look at the time.

191
00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:20.220
I think a big problem with the mandrels is in episodes 2 and 3 when we're wandering about the Eden projection or we see them in the matter interfaces.

192
00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:26.460
We get the Terrence Dix, Robert Holmes approach of, you know, we see a claw or we see a close-up of an eye or we see this or we see that.

193
00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:32.519
It's rather undermined by the fact that the end of episode one, we see one leaning through a hole going, waving its arms.

194
00:14:32.580 --> 00:14:33.120
Yes.

195
00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:37.019
In fact, that's a terrible episode one. monster a bit. the round window.

196
00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:41.700
No, no, because they cut the hole in the thing for no readily apparent reason.

197
00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:43.440
It comes out in roars.

198
00:14:43.500 --> 00:14:48.419
Then next week we have the reprise and they go, oh, we'll seal that hole up again and so they just seal it up immediately.

199
00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:51.840
And I don't think we've seen them before.

200
00:14:51.899 --> 00:14:57.960
You know, we've heard them growl before, but we haven't had the whole bit by bit by bit like you do in, say, terror of the zygobs.

201
00:14:58.019 --> 00:15:00.059
It's just, and a monster cave.

202
00:15:00.539 --> 00:15:02.759
Well, I think they're sweet.

203
00:15:02.820 --> 00:15:10.980
I love it when the doctor uses his little sonic whistle and they do little groaning sweet groaning.

204
00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:12.539
Pine pipes them, yeah.

205
00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:13.860
And there's lots of underplays.

206
00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:18.240
Some of the best lines were cut out, probably as they will be from most of our podcasts, gentle listener.

207
00:15:18.299 --> 00:15:24.360
You know, when Romana's chomping on an Apple in that scene, you know, and Tom looks at her and says best not to look what happened last time.

208
00:15:24.419 --> 00:15:27.360
Well, fuff that line. why they cut it out.

209
00:15:27.419 --> 00:15:32.159
Don't you find that Della and Stott, who is what, Jennifer Lonsdale and a bloke?

210
00:15:32.220 --> 00:15:33.480
Barry Andrews?

211
00:15:33.539 --> 00:15:34.019
That Q?

212
00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:34.740
Barry Andrew.

213
00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:36.120
We're actually pretty good.

214
00:15:36.179 --> 00:15:38.220
I used to love the best the best.

215
00:15:38.279 --> 00:15:38.879
This is the problem.

216
00:15:38.940 --> 00:15:40.259
You're pitching for realism.

217
00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:43.980
And then you're kind of pitching for Panto Doctor Who, Quantil.

218
00:15:44.039 --> 00:15:46.440
You've got them in the same frame, though.

219
00:15:46.500 --> 00:15:53.100
Yeah, it's it's going to end, it's always going to end up with the same squeaking sound that deck chairs on the Titanic make, don't you?

220
00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:56.879
So yeah, can we talk about the Quantel paint box theme?

221
00:15:56.940 --> 00:15:57.419
Please.

222
00:15:57.480 --> 00:15:58.500
Ter exciting.

223
00:15:58.559 --> 00:16:01.980
I actually think that it's some of the most successful bits in the episode.

224
00:16:02.100 --> 00:16:04.620
Like the opening scene with those models.

225
00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:05.820
I think the models look quite good.

226
00:16:05.879 --> 00:16:08.039
They were beautiful and they cost a lot.

227
00:16:08.100 --> 00:16:09.840
It looks like gold.

228
00:16:09.899 --> 00:16:14.519
Do you remember the Blake 7 episode gold, which has sort of similar sort of model work. wonderful.

229
00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:16.620
Is that your pick of the week?

230
00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:22.500
And like the video effects are really great and then the unstable matter interfaces look really good.

231
00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:27.059
There's that fantastic cliffhanger to episode three.

232
00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:28.919
When they walk through...

233
00:16:28.919 --> 00:16:30.000
When Tom gets dissolved.

234
00:16:30.059 --> 00:16:31.440
Yeah, when he disappeared.

235
00:16:31.500 --> 00:16:32.820
That's another course. great.

236
00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:34.620
It's those 2 big things.

237
00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:40.620
So we look at that now and go, oh, yeah, that's, you know, it's nicely done, but that was a massive wow back in the day.

238
00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:43.379
We hadn't seen it, and it took them forever to shoot that.

239
00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:46.200
So kudos, I guess, to Bromley for getting that right.

240
00:16:46.259 --> 00:16:51.899
No, particularly the aversion that he showed to proper effects of any kind in the previous way.

241
00:16:52.620 --> 00:16:54.360
I think, yeah, I think there was a whole lot.

242
00:16:54.419 --> 00:16:59.340
Well, you know that some of this direction we're praising was actually Graham Williams when you came down onto the studio.

243
00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:00.120
Yes, indeed.

244
00:17:00.179 --> 00:17:01.980
Just another word on that Quantel.

245
00:17:02.039 --> 00:17:08.640
It's kind of what goes around, comes around because the Quantel machine they were using was designed for picture and picture and news broadcast.

246
00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:13.440
Amy Stewart was designed for Amy Stewart wearing a carnival pretzel.

247
00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:16.859
It came out just a few months before from Berlin.

248
00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:28.680
But how they achieved the effects we see in Nightmare of Eden is similar to how Bernard Lodge achieved the 1st 3 Doctor Who title sequences.

249
00:17:28.740 --> 00:17:37.980
They fed the input back in on the machine and it then degraded and degraded and degraded as with the Hartnell Trout and Pertwee opening titles.

250
00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:41.519
I thought you were going to say as the quality of the narrative also.

251
00:17:41.579 --> 00:17:43.440
Bernard Lodge is not actually a person, it's a place.

252
00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:52.559
It's just a drug fuelled ghetto where Delia Derbyshire would sit and chew away on bits of piano wire, and that's why her teeth were so awful.

253
00:17:52.680 --> 00:18:01.559
And all those other young people just get up there and that's what this story is about, this story is about young creatives getting into Bernard Lodge and ruining their future careers.

254
00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:04.740
By taking zip, by by by chewing on a zip.

255
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:05.279
That's right.

256
00:18:05.339 --> 00:18:15.000
Speaking of which, the mandrills, I think the zip is actually named after that extraordinary feature on the back of the mandrill costume, which is constantly invisible.

257
00:18:15.059 --> 00:18:16.200
Thank you for raising that.

258
00:18:16.259 --> 00:18:22.380
There's a bit of a theme of hilariously and non-metaphorically splitting your trousers this season.

259
00:18:22.380 --> 00:18:24.839
As we get it in this one.

260
00:18:24.900 --> 00:18:28.980
Well, there's a whole lot of, what's Mr. Adams trying to tell us?

261
00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:29.700
What's Duggo?

262
00:18:29.819 --> 00:18:33.960
I'm trying to tell us about bum flashing in this season.

263
00:18:34.019 --> 00:18:35.460
I think he's forum.

264
00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:36.660
Yeah, generally.

265
00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:42.480
I wonder if it's a subtle comment on state of play, BBC generally.

266
00:18:42.539 --> 00:18:47.220
Well, in just 2 years time, of course, he will flash his own bum in Hitchhiker's Guy into the Galaxy.

267
00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:47.819
Bad, actually.

268
00:18:47.940 --> 00:18:49.799
Yeah, you know, I think he was this big chap.

269
00:18:49.859 --> 00:18:50.579
He had been a bouncer.

270
00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:54.900
He had been terribly fit before the before the fun of the 70s got to him.

271
00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:59.099
He never stopped having fun and that's why we had him for such little time.

272
00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:01.980
It's great sadness, isn't it?

273
00:19:02.039 --> 00:19:04.140
Well, a great deal of alcohol and cigarettes.

274
00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:09.779
Yeah, but we say fun. combined with just a chronic inability to get anything finished.

275
00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:17.220
It just means that all we have are the 5 hitchhikers novels and 2.5 dirk gently, well, 2 and a quarter, 2 and a 8.

276
00:19:17.220 --> 00:19:18.240
And they rise.

277
00:19:18.299 --> 00:19:19.920
But, you know, on paper, you're right.

278
00:19:19.980 --> 00:19:25.559
But I actually think he got more finished than we generally give credit and you can see it in the way this season unfolds.

279
00:19:25.619 --> 00:19:29.640
And the fact that the last episodes invisible, last story is invisible.

280
00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:32.099
It's very Douglas Adams in itself, isn't it?

281
00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:37.799
Douglas Adams did actually have an overarching set of themes.

282
00:19:37.859 --> 00:19:40.680
And I'm not saying it was conscious, and I'm certainly not saying it was even worked out.

283
00:19:40.740 --> 00:19:51.660
What I am saying is he's so clever. that unconsciously, if you like, he's spinning this out and it does come together because truly, truly clever creative people are doing this on many levels at once.

284
00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:54.000
And I think that's in the end why we love him.

285
00:19:54.059 --> 00:19:57.599
He's giving us more that we can even coming back 30 something years later.

286
00:19:57.660 --> 00:20:00.660
We can still find these new threads, these new surprises.

287
00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:07.079
You know who in the modern era reminds me a bit of Douglas, and certainly not in terms of the content he produces?

288
00:20:07.140 --> 00:20:08.940
Quentin Tarantino?

289
00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:14.579
Because Quentin Tarantino has really quite a small repertoire.

290
00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:14.940
Yes.

291
00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:20.940
And, you know, he does have his constant themes and I'm not saying I'm necessarily a fan of all his work.

292
00:20:20.940 --> 00:20:25.200
But like Douglas, he has his own vision and he sticks to that vision.

293
00:20:25.319 --> 00:20:27.900
This is where it could get violent.

294
00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:40.500
Yes, indeed. speaking Tarantino, he's like, I find Tarantino monstrously violent, and he is Asperge, and he's kind of, he's pretty much admitted his mother talked about it, that he would just sit and stare at films and write them down.

295
00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:44.220
He just refilms other films, but I find his violence indigestible.

296
00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:47.460
And that's exactly what Douglas is against.

297
00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:49.740
Sono thematically, you're talking about threads.

298
00:20:49.799 --> 00:20:55.140
I see what you're saying, but it's an interesting person to bring up because they are diametrically opposed. absolutely.

299
00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:56.700
Yeah, I'm, I am not...

300
00:20:56.700 --> 00:21:02.220
It's like saying the Black Guardian's a little more, actually, Black Guardian is probably more fun than the white Guardian, as often the case.

301
00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:04.799
Can we talk about the CET machine?

302
00:21:06.180 --> 00:21:08.099
An interesting idea.

303
00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:12.180
So, oh, yes, I love going to space 1979 land.

304
00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:13.380
Yeah.

305
00:21:13.380 --> 00:21:15.000
So I think...

306
00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:20.519
Look, it's the it's a sort of the miniscope's non-Mexican Union equivalent, isn't it?

307
00:21:20.579 --> 00:21:26.460
Like it was a great idea back when Bob Holmes had it in the mid 70s.

308
00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:31.680
But I think that there are moments where it threatens to derail it as well.

309
00:21:31.740 --> 00:21:33.240
I think it's really incompetently done.

310
00:21:33.299 --> 00:21:36.480
And I think there are scenes that would have been just spectacular.

311
00:21:36.539 --> 00:21:40.619
Like the Cliffhanger to episode two, had it been well realised.

312
00:21:40.740 --> 00:21:47.579
So the CET machine is basically, you know, like a bit of a picture frame surrounding half of the studio.

313
00:21:47.579 --> 00:21:55.019
And as Richard points out, it's just they drop in sort of film insets of planets from Space Night.

314
00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:56.640
Yes.

315
00:21:56.640 --> 00:22:02.160
Except for Eden, which is just... like really shockingly bad.

316
00:22:02.220 --> 00:22:06.599
And not for a 2nd does it look like a screen and there's no sort of video effects over it.

317
00:22:06.660 --> 00:22:13.559
And so it's absolutely no surprise at all when they leap over that tiny bit of wall and end up in Eden.

318
00:22:13.619 --> 00:22:15.480
And it's quite a well acted cliffhanger.

319
00:22:15.539 --> 00:22:21.960
You've got Roman going, we'll be torn apart, doing like more acting in one line than Mary did in...

320
00:22:22.259 --> 00:22:30.720
And all of that, you know, like the sting comes in before we cut to the credits, all of that sort of thing. really, really good.

321
00:22:30.779 --> 00:22:33.779
But it just never convinces for a second.

322
00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:35.579
And there's that other scene.

323
00:22:35.640 --> 00:22:38.099
And I was mystified by this for years.

324
00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:40.200
She's standing in front of the projection.

325
00:22:40.259 --> 00:22:41.880
She's idly playing with the machine.

326
00:22:41.940 --> 00:22:54.000
She stands in front of the Eden projection, and a little video blip thing, comes out and hits her on the neck and she falls down, and I had no idea what that was meant to be until I read the novelisation.

327
00:22:54.059 --> 00:22:56.579
It's an insect lying out of the projection.

328
00:22:56.700 --> 00:22:59.880
Yeah, and it's meant to inform the audience that things can get out.

329
00:22:59.940 --> 00:23:01.859
But it's incomprehensible.

330
00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:02.339
Yeah, exactly.

331
00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:08.759
And even Bob Baker on the DVD says, you know, that's what I wrote into the script and they had to make it into a video effect.

332
00:23:08.819 --> 00:23:10.740
And I understand why they did that, but you lose the meaning.

333
00:23:10.799 --> 00:23:13.259
The other thing with that cliffhanger.

334
00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:18.839
In the script, when they jump across the threshold, they don't just land in Eden.

335
00:23:18.900 --> 00:23:20.220
They are torn apart.

336
00:23:20.339 --> 00:23:24.480
And that is the cliffhanger that they vanish the way Tom vanishes at the end of M3.

337
00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:25.380
That would have been good.

338
00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:36.240
And then at the top of the episode three, they just reappear in Eden and the sort of falling action of the tension is that that's just how you get into the projection.

339
00:23:36.299 --> 00:23:39.480
You know, it dissolves you like a transporter, but with the viewer don't know that.

340
00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:43.740
I still like the idea that if it had been a convincing screen.

341
00:23:43.799 --> 00:23:45.839
If we'd thought for a 2nd it was a screen.

342
00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:52.619
Yeah, having the doctor and Omana jump into a television screen and end up on television would have been just terrific.

343
00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:58.680
You know what I think would have been a wonderful way to do it, would be at some point to have filmed that screen from the side.

344
00:23:58.740 --> 00:24:02.339
And so when they jump in, they just don't, you don't see them come out the other side.

345
00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:04.859
So it's the ultimate flat screen.

346
00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:14.880
The original idea was, you know, they would disappear in a maelstrom and you'd hear them screaming and that would be the cliffhanger and unfortunately, you know, we would have just had Tom saying, oh, my arms, my legs, my everything.

347
00:24:14.940 --> 00:24:17.519
Oh I quite like that.

348
00:24:17.579 --> 00:24:20.039
So do I. It's totally stupid.

349
00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:33.000
It is sort of preempted by the fact that he's wearing a different jacket this episode and it's his stunt being torn apart on Eden jacket so that he still has the nice jacket for subsequent stories.

350
00:24:33.059 --> 00:24:37.140
Romana's costume on the other hand, isn't it dreadful?

351
00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:39.180
The most horrific thing she ever wears.

352
00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:41.579
It's like a maternity file.

353
00:24:41.700 --> 00:24:43.140
It is a monster game.

354
00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:49.140
I am a child of the 70s, and I have to say she's right up to the thumping minute in fashionability there.

355
00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:51.180
No, actually it's rather lovely.

356
00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:54.180
It's look at Carly Simon's album covers around the time.

357
00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:54.960
Look at...

358
00:24:54.960 --> 00:24:59.640
I will say it looks wonderful when she's running because of course, in Doctor Who...

359
00:24:59.700 --> 00:25:02.579
Yeah, in Doctor Who for running, you have to run very slowly.

360
00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:07.319
So the dress gives an indication of extra movement, you know.

361
00:25:07.619 --> 00:25:14.759
I've come to regard Lala as, if you could say, symbiotically associated with her frock.

362
00:25:14.819 --> 00:25:21.660
Yeah, no, and there's the hair does some slightly odd things and creature, but that was her 1st crack, wasn't it?

363
00:25:21.779 --> 00:25:23.279
It's doing a little bit, sort of.

364
00:25:23.339 --> 00:25:25.140
I am going to play Ophelia, you know.

365
00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:28.799
I am, because we know you are, and she hadn't done it.

366
00:25:28.859 --> 00:25:29.640
Oh, she didn't.

367
00:25:29.640 --> 00:25:32.220
I thought she did it towards the end.

368
00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:40.079
Maybe you're right, because by the time we get to Naimon, she was certainly in charge of the BBC. dressing for the coast.

369
00:25:40.140 --> 00:25:42.480
But in this one, I just look, all the fox are lovely.

370
00:25:42.539 --> 00:25:49.500
I think what hurts this is the same reason that hurts a trip to Europe for Australians when you go anywhere further than the UK.

371
00:25:49.500 --> 00:25:59.460
Or anyway, north is where if you go to any of the clean countries, the Scandalwegians or the Dutch, and you go to any H and M sale or just any anything really.

372
00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:03.599
You find everybody's wearing mustard, mustard seems to be.

373
00:26:03.660 --> 00:26:07.859
I mean, it's not really, it's just a way to cover up food you don't really eat in the 1st place.

374
00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:11.400
And why did they paint this rather beautiful spaceship mustard?

375
00:26:11.460 --> 00:26:16.259
Well, I've got 4 episodes of looking at baby poo coloured walls.

376
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:16.859
It does hurt.

377
00:26:16.920 --> 00:26:22.259
It's apparently the Art Deco influence, and I believe the colour is called Colonial Cream.

378
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:23.160
It's very nice of them.

379
00:26:23.220 --> 00:26:27.839
There was a colour they call tobacco, which I can pull out for your listeners at home. love that one.

380
00:26:27.900 --> 00:26:30.779
Show you pictures on the interweb radio, I mean.

381
00:26:30.839 --> 00:26:31.559
No, yeah, yeah.

382
00:26:31.619 --> 00:26:33.000
No, it's flat.

383
00:26:33.059 --> 00:26:39.119
And Lewis Fianders are just a naughty, naughty man for doing the accent.

384
00:26:39.180 --> 00:26:44.400
It would have been nicer to have some sort of relief on the walls, you know, even just have light relief.

385
00:26:46.380 --> 00:26:48.480
But my old theatre group.

386
00:26:48.539 --> 00:26:56.160
There was a time when the director had 2 had 2 colours.

387
00:26:56.220 --> 00:27:05.579
He want paint, he want, he would want painted into every set, because, you know, we were doing shows like are you being served in classic comedies like that, and they were heritage red and colonial cream.

388
00:27:05.640 --> 00:27:09.180
Everything was heritage, red, and colonial cream.

389
00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:10.440
We did a Doctor Who send-up.

390
00:27:10.500 --> 00:27:12.960
The Daleks were heritage, red and colonial cream.

391
00:27:13.019 --> 00:27:14.039
David, I hope you're listening.

392
00:27:14.099 --> 00:27:17.579
Did you think some mid-Bunswick green and mission brown?

393
00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:23.339
Yeah, did he force you to go to the London Zoo quite often because they are the colours of a baboon's bottom?

394
00:27:23.460 --> 00:27:25.500
That's why they called mandrills.

395
00:27:25.559 --> 00:27:28.980
That's right. we're back in the room.

396
00:27:29.099 --> 00:27:34.319
So I'd like to talk a bit, if I may, about the directorial problems.

397
00:27:34.380 --> 00:27:38.700
Oh, I think we're well beyond not talking about that.

398
00:27:38.880 --> 00:27:46.259
So as we know, there was no film work conducted for this. much to the chagrin of Colin Mapson, the model designer.

399
00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:54.599
Because he did design those ship models to be seen on film and then they were shot on video and he said, you know, usually we had 5 days to shoot on film, but there was a budget cut and we had 4 hours.

400
00:27:54.960 --> 00:28:00.420
And you get a lot of grain, we should say, with video that you don't get in those days with film.

401
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:05.819
You can really up the quality and film very slowly on celluloid, so you get detail on a model.

402
00:28:05.940 --> 00:28:08.700
Thank you, Ian Scones, and the lovely opening to invasion of...

403
00:28:08.700 --> 00:28:10.980
Tinny or whatever, it's called invasion of time.

404
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:12.900
But it...

405
00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:13.140
Yeah.

406
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:14.880
I actually don't think they look that terrible.

407
00:28:14.940 --> 00:28:30.059
You know, they're not they're not terrible, but studio cameras were not designed to move in that way because much like model work, a lot of model work for spaceships are still done now, the cameras were moving, not the models, which is why we get some very jittery model scenes.

408
00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:32.700
And Richard is now moving a model.

409
00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:36.240
His home-built Tyson he made when he was 12?

410
00:28:36.299 --> 00:28:38.279
32 years old. 32 years.

411
00:28:38.339 --> 00:28:42.299
Just as old as long as the listeners been listening to this podcast.

412
00:28:42.359 --> 00:28:43.799
I don't imagine their feeling.

413
00:28:43.859 --> 00:28:45.359
Let's get to Alan Bromley.

414
00:28:45.420 --> 00:28:47.279
We love the monsters, don't we?

415
00:28:47.339 --> 00:28:56.519
The reason that the budget was slashed so much is Graham Williams said, I will not produce a season finale on a shoestring again.

416
00:28:56.579 --> 00:29:00.480
I'll take some money earlier in the year when inflation means that money is made.

417
00:29:00.539 --> 00:29:01.380
That money goes further.

418
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:03.779
Yeah, because inflation was really, really ripping away.

419
00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:04.380
Exactly.

420
00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:06.180
No, that makes no sense.

421
00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:11.220
If you're saving money that's worth more now and inflation's rising, later, it'll be worth less.

422
00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:13.380
Yes, but he has more of it to play.

423
00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:14.579
Oh, no, it doesn't make sense.

424
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:21.119
If you could only sort of jump forward in time. use that money and then bring that back to now. bring that money back.

425
00:29:21.180 --> 00:29:24.000
The cost of your meal is incredibly paid for.

426
00:29:24.059 --> 00:29:27.299
So we have 6 studio days. was perfect.

427
00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:32.279
We have 6 studio days to cover these 4 episodes.

428
00:29:32.339 --> 00:29:39.779
And as we discussed earlier, Bromley constantly changing things, not communicating well with the cast wasn't going down well.

429
00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:43.140
Do we know why he was such a cranky back bottom on this?

430
00:29:43.259 --> 00:29:43.799
No.

431
00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:45.119
No, we really don't.

432
00:29:45.180 --> 00:29:45.779
Anyone?

433
00:29:45.779 --> 00:29:48.059
There's no sort of indication.

434
00:29:48.180 --> 00:29:49.799
Well, we know what happened and why.

435
00:29:49.859 --> 00:29:58.200
He would ticked Lala off. the old thing, but she wasn't on her mark, which he'd only just moved and she didn't know about, and he really tore strips of it from the booth.

436
00:29:58.259 --> 00:30:11.940
According to, I think it's the makeup designer, Joan Stripling, gave an interview where she said it was a full-blown verbal assault, which lasted minutes in front of the entire cast and crew.

437
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:14.160
And that was actually the final straw for Tom.

438
00:30:14.460 --> 00:30:19.079
And then spent the day muttering...

439
00:30:19.079 --> 00:30:31.440
Not so sutter, but so back so the control room could hear about, you know, I'm going to get, I think, it's City Carter from that chap up there, being a disease that you get from parrots.

440
00:30:31.500 --> 00:30:32.460
Yes.

441
00:30:32.460 --> 00:30:36.900
Because, as he also commented, do we have a director up there in commentator?

442
00:30:36.960 --> 00:30:38.279
Wow.

443
00:30:38.579 --> 00:30:40.920
Oh, that is...

444
00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:42.839
Tom at his worst best.

445
00:30:42.900 --> 00:30:46.740
And the thing is, that is what he actually screamed into the microphone.

446
00:30:46.859 --> 00:31:00.119
And production broke for dinner and everyone went off for dinner and came back to the last came back to do the last half day's filming and Graham Williams was in the gallery saying, right, I'm calling the shots now.

447
00:31:00.180 --> 00:31:02.640
And...

448
00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:03.900
So Bromley was replaying.

449
00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:04.440
Oh, yeah.

450
00:31:04.500 --> 00:31:15.420
And there is there is no consensus on whether Graham Williams fired him or Graham Williams pulled him to one side and said, Alan, do you think maybe you should go home?

451
00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:17.519
And some people say that Alan said, you're right.

452
00:31:17.579 --> 00:31:18.240
I've had enough of this.

453
00:31:18.299 --> 00:31:19.319
I've wanted to say this for weeks.

454
00:31:19.380 --> 00:31:24.299
But yeah, I think it speaks a lot to Tom's professionalism that he was willing to...

455
00:31:24.299 --> 00:31:26.279
Praises he rarely hear.

456
00:31:26.339 --> 00:31:28.440
Oh, hear me out.

457
00:31:28.500 --> 00:31:44.460
That, as disenchanted as he was and disenfranchised by Alan Bromley's working method, it was only when Bromley did the ultimate professional sin of personally attacking, not just a cast member, but at this stage, Tom's partner, really.

458
00:31:44.519 --> 00:31:45.839
I believe they were dating at this stage.

459
00:31:45.900 --> 00:31:49.559
But I would like to think if he'd done it to any cast member, Tom would have probably done the same thing.

460
00:31:49.619 --> 00:31:51.119
You know, Tom...

461
00:31:51.180 --> 00:31:59.400
But Tom, you know, put up with a lot until the director had lost control, basically.

462
00:31:59.460 --> 00:32:04.920
And considering that Thomas put up with Norman Stewart on underworld.

463
00:32:04.980 --> 00:32:11.579
Not that Norman Stewart was necessarily a problem, but Norman Stewart was a technical directory, didn't know how to direct actors, but Tom was sympathetic to that, you know.

464
00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:15.599
Tom could only take so much before he just said, look, enough is enough.

465
00:32:15.660 --> 00:32:18.119
I need to take care of this as the star of the show.

466
00:32:18.180 --> 00:32:22.980
And we sort of, we hear so much this year about, oh, Tom's out of control, this, that, the other.

467
00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:26.759
I think if Tom was out of control, he probably would have attacked Bromley far sooner.

468
00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:29.700
Bromley was away up in the control room.

469
00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:31.019
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

470
00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:33.960
I mean, they did actually have a screening match before this.

471
00:32:34.019 --> 00:32:41.099
But both of them said that actually cleared the air, you know, and they were able to work well for a day or so after that.

472
00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:46.559
And speaking of directorial commands coming from on high, we've got an obelisk coming in, gentlemen.

473
00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:49.980
So here we are with the nightmare of Eden, listeners.

474
00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:54.480
You know, I maintain that Bob Baker and Dave Martin write two good episodes of Doctor Who the Year.

475
00:32:54.539 --> 00:32:56.339
But this is just Bob Baker by himself.

476
00:32:56.400 --> 00:32:57.720
And you know what?

477
00:32:57.779 --> 00:33:04.019
I actually really like this script, but I don't think it should have ever been attempted in 1979, or even 1989.

478
00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:11.519
I actually think that it could have been rewritten for the new series as a 45 minute episode, and produced with great special effects for the new series.

479
00:33:11.579 --> 00:33:13.019
What do you think?

480
00:33:13.079 --> 00:33:14.759
Anyway, I'm now off to the next story.

481
00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:17.160
Surely the monsters can't get any sillier.

482
00:33:17.819 --> 00:33:19.980
It's a good point.

483
00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:23.700
I hate drug things on television, drug message stories on television.

484
00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:33.480
I think that, uh, it's just, well, I think it's just disingenuous to say that there's a problem with drugs separate from the problem caused by the way we treat them in the criminal justice system.

485
00:33:33.539 --> 00:33:34.619
So.

486
00:33:34.740 --> 00:33:37.619
Stories about how drugs are bad just annoy the hell out of me.

487
00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:40.920
And I also think that they tend to be directed against young people.

488
00:33:40.980 --> 00:33:45.180
They tend to be middle aged people writing about how terrible young people are.

489
00:33:45.299 --> 00:33:47.220
So it's ever since...

490
00:33:47.220 --> 00:33:47.940
Of course, of fun.

491
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:49.920
Two young people and the fun what you want.

492
00:33:49.980 --> 00:33:56.220
Like, I don't want Nancy Reagan to waltz on set and start lecturing me in Doctor Who, frankly.

493
00:33:56.279 --> 00:33:59.759
And she and Capaldi have similar hair.

494
00:33:59.940 --> 00:34:01.859
Increasingly so.

495
00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:04.559
I don't like the drug thing at all.

496
00:34:04.619 --> 00:34:10.619
I do like the unstable matter interfaces thing, you know, creating weird spaces.

497
00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:13.139
Don't muck around with unstable matters.

498
00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:13.619
Exactly.

499
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:15.239
Don't get started with them.

500
00:34:15.300 --> 00:34:16.800
They'll ruin your life.

501
00:34:16.860 --> 00:34:24.119
And the fact that the space has created a weird television spaces, you know, that consist of video effects and stuff.

502
00:34:24.179 --> 00:34:25.619
I think all of that stuff is great.

503
00:34:25.619 --> 00:34:32.699
You know, there's a lot of good things to say about this, but the drug thing just annoys the hell out of me.

504
00:34:32.760 --> 00:34:49.860
If I'd had my time over, I would have talked about the era of prohibition in the US and how it was one man trying to protect his anti-alcohol department, and the, oh, the levels of corruption, as you know, and increasing crime.

505
00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:56.400
And he just didn't want to lose, and Hoover was with him, of course, but he didn't want to lose his money in his department.

506
00:34:56.460 --> 00:34:59.099
So they just transferred their interest from alcohol to drugs.

507
00:34:59.219 --> 00:35:00.840
Really where it's all come from.

508
00:35:01.260 --> 00:35:03.179
It was readily available.

509
00:35:03.239 --> 00:35:09.059
My grandmother used to buy heroin in distilled, which you could buy at the pharmacist.

510
00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:10.320
Drunk in those.

511
00:35:10.380 --> 00:35:12.780
Drunks don't start to become a lady's pains.

512
00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:13.079
Yes.

513
00:35:13.139 --> 00:35:17.159
Drugs don't start to become illegal in Australia until 1905, I think.

514
00:35:17.219 --> 00:35:22.320
And then it's a racist thing directed against the Chinese, banning opium for smoking, but you could still...

515
00:35:22.380 --> 00:35:23.699
That would have been a more fun episode actually.

516
00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:27.719
We can still get, you know, opium for drinking at the chemist, you know.

517
00:35:27.780 --> 00:35:28.920
In Newtown, right now.

518
00:35:29.699 --> 00:35:39.420
And of course, in America, around the time of the Great Depression, the actual reason that marijuana was banned, it was nothing to do with Roof or Madness, it was everything to do with the cotton industry.

519
00:35:39.480 --> 00:35:48.539
Yes, of course, because hemp is a much better, far lower water using product and much stronger, but of course, the industry is already there.

520
00:35:48.599 --> 00:35:52.380
Why do you think Americans still have pennies because of the zinc lobby?

521
00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:56.039
It costs more to make a penny than it does to mint one.

522
00:35:56.099 --> 00:36:00.659
But of course, Well, it now costs more to make a ¢5 piece than to mint one.

523
00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:04.500
So we may see the back of those. ¢5 pieces.

524
00:36:04.559 --> 00:36:05.880
Can I just say how much I hate them?

525
00:36:05.940 --> 00:36:12.900
And if I ever have like ¢25 pieces, I'm really, really anxious and angry until I can get rid of at least one of them.

526
00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:14.400
That's why we have Boy Scouts.

527
00:36:14.519 --> 00:36:16.320
Just insert them in a Boy Scout.

528
00:36:16.380 --> 00:36:17.159
Oh, right.

529
00:36:17.219 --> 00:36:25.199
I wonder if really, it's the same with Nightmare of Eden and that it costs more to watch this than it did to produce.

530
00:36:25.260 --> 00:36:27.179
Yes, that's almost certainly true.

531
00:36:27.239 --> 00:36:30.179
This podcast had a higher budget, I think, probably.

532
00:36:30.599 --> 00:36:35.159
Can I draw attention to one performance that I think is truly dire?

533
00:36:35.219 --> 00:36:36.840
Really, just the one?

534
00:36:36.900 --> 00:36:37.920
You know what?

535
00:36:37.980 --> 00:36:40.260
Just one, because as I've said, I don't have a problem with Lewis Fiander.

536
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:42.719
I think Jeffrey Inslip is awful in this.

537
00:36:42.780 --> 00:36:44.460
He's Fisk.

538
00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:46.559
Yeah, he's shockingly bad isn't he?

539
00:36:46.619 --> 00:36:49.500
Which is amazing because he's so good in Image of the Fender.

540
00:36:49.559 --> 00:36:50.699
Yeah, he's lovely in that.

541
00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:52.860
Peter Craze is okay, you know?

542
00:36:52.980 --> 00:36:55.079
Which one's Peter Crane?

543
00:36:55.139 --> 00:36:58.079
Peter Craze is Darko and he's also Michael Craze's brother.

544
00:36:58.139 --> 00:37:01.019
So Peter Craze is the other customs officer.

545
00:37:01.139 --> 00:37:02.639
Oh okay.

546
00:37:02.699 --> 00:37:12.179
Yeah, everyone was having a rotten time during the shoot, and actors, sensitive actors, and Hinsliff is one of them can't do their best if they don't feel loved.

547
00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:17.340
Just as we feel loved by you, do listen and why we're still here doing this, because we love you.

548
00:37:17.940 --> 00:37:21.059
And five, not ¢5 pieces.

549
00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:22.019
No.

550
00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:27.840
I want to find some way of shoehorning a reference to demon's evil villain to do list.

551
00:37:27.900 --> 00:37:30.599
Because I love a good evil villain to do this.

552
00:37:30.659 --> 00:37:32.639
Just cut all of my silliness out and just put that in.

553
00:37:32.699 --> 00:37:37.320
We haven't we haven't had an evil villain to do this since Peter Butterworth, really.

554
00:37:37.380 --> 00:37:39.179
I remember that.

555
00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:50.280
And it's very, it's very pressing because I think the next story we do owes in a timey, whimey kind of reverse causality sort of way owes a lot to Marge versus the monorail.

556
00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:57.420
And Lyle Landley has a very, very fantastic, illustrated evil-to-do list as well.

557
00:37:57.480 --> 00:38:00.300
So I like to encourage people to keep to-do lists.

558
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:02.760
I think it's an important productivity thing.

559
00:38:02.820 --> 00:38:09.000
And if you're a villain, I think it's particularly important to keep track of your next actions and your long-term project.

560
00:38:09.059 --> 00:38:10.079
I like that, yeah.

561
00:38:10.500 --> 00:38:12.360
I let it go.

562
00:38:12.420 --> 00:38:14.099
That's why I'm not the villain I should have been.

563
00:38:14.159 --> 00:38:17.159
There you go, kids, just don't do lists.

564
00:38:32.760 --> 00:38:40.139
Dear listeners, we're departing the orbit of the planet, Azure, to put the residence of the planet, ridge back where they belong.

565
00:38:40.139 --> 00:38:49.320
Until next week, when we'll be back with the horns of Naimon, please check us out online at FlightthroughEntirety.com, flight through Entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on Twitter.

566
00:38:49.380 --> 00:38:57.659
We also have, finally, Bondfinger is up to date with Casino Royale and the 1st 5 Sean Connery Bond films.

567
00:38:57.719 --> 00:38:59.579
Casino Royale, of course, being 1967.

568
00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:05.519
You can find that on Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes and Bondfinger cast on Twitter.

569
00:39:05.579 --> 00:39:09.420
Until next week, may you never feel comfortable in an electronic zoo.

570
00:39:09.480 --> 00:39:10.500
Thank you very much and good night.

571
00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:10.980
Good night.

572
00:39:11.039 --> 00:39:11.880
Good then.

573
00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:18.780
That was fled through entirety with Nathan Bottomley, Brenda Jones, and Richard Storm.

574
00:39:18.840 --> 00:39:24.539
This episode, I don't want Nancy Reagan, was recorded on the 6th of February.

575
00:39:24.599 --> 00:39:28.320
The next episode will be released on February 21st.

576
00:39:28.380 --> 00:39:33.480
I hope that this accent is considered that I am actually the million of the...

577
00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:34.619
Damn.

578
00:39:40.739 --> 00:39:44.699
The nightmare of Eden, February the 6th.

579
00:39:44.820 --> 00:39:46.500
I think it's just Nightmare of Eden.

580
00:39:46.559 --> 00:39:47.340
Yes, that's right.

581
00:39:47.400 --> 00:39:49.139
There's no definite article.

582
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:52.019
Bear role nominal.

583
00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:54.539
There you go, kids.

584
00:39:54.599 --> 00:39:56.340
Just don't do list.

585
00:39:57.119 --> 00:40:00.659
Don't transcribe every other composer for piano.

586
00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:01.980
Don't do list.

587
00:40:03.119 --> 00:40:05.219
How funny was that?

588
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:09.000
Apologies to Leslie Howard.

589
00:40:09.059 --> 00:40:09.960
How funny was that?

590
00:40:10.019 --> 00:40:14.340
So you keep Chopin changing that line every time you move in.

591
00:40:15.179 --> 00:40:17.820
You're barks worse than you buy.