Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight through Entirety
the only Doctor Who podcast.
I'm Brendan.
I'm Nathan.
I'm the Von Trapp family chorus sacrificing pool filters to Boney
M's backup caraton for this episode.
That's the most baroque you've ever gone, Richard.
And becoming increasingly baroque now is the horns of Nimon.
All the horns of Nina Simone, just to continue with a musical
theme.
So, as our resident podcast classicist, can I go all professory?
painter.
Yes, please.
Please do.
So this is obviously a reworking of the story of Theseus and the
Minotaur.
And once again, as we found in underworld, in the future, space
myths are merely anagram of our normal Greek myths.
And so...
So we have Aneth, instead of Athens.
We have Skonos instead of Knossos, which is City in Crete.
We have Krinoff, which is an anagram of Corinth, which was the
other sort of major city in Greece.
Soldeed is just Deedless, who is the...
Yes, rather than King Minos, he is definitely...
Yeah, well, Dedalus creates the labyrinth, and Naimon is, of
course, a sort of anagram of the beginning of the word Minotaur.
And SOT, does he come in?
Isn't that a toss?
Well, no, Seth is an anagram of Theseus.
You know, so it is, I don't know who...
Does he come in?
No, right.
Tinker and Tish.
So what about Sorak?
Who's Sorak?
No, no idea.
But Sergeant Benton.
That's who I thought it was when I was a kid.
There is more to it than that because what many people don't know
having read, you know, children's book versions of the Minotaur, is
they don't know how the Minotaur came about.
Well, some of us do.
What rating do we have for this episode?
Well, I'm going to try and be a bit coy about it, but King Minos's
wife, Passave, was afflicted with an unnatural, a natural urge.
And so she made herself a cow out of wicker work and climbed into
it. of Edward Woodward and then allowed herself to be pleasured by
a bull.
And so the monotor is actually... we've all been to crazy. sick.
That's it under the influence of Uzo, what wouldn't you do?
So the minor tories is, in fact, like a symbol of just the darker
sexual desires of the human mind, and it's no, it's no coincidence
that it lives inside a dark cavernous labyrinth, you know.
It's the shadow self.
Isn't he also representative of as the true nature of the shadow
is the urge to live. is the urge to recreate, to move above the
mundane, to the essence of life itself.
If we talk about the great journey of life.
Then perhaps, as you would describe the shadow, as if without your
shadow, you simply, with lachromise, you just fall into
disinterest.
So about time says that the original myth of the Minotaur is a
tale of everything animalistic and Freudian in human consciousness
but that this is about a bullheaded alien who fires energy bolts
from its horns and lives in some space corridors.
I wasn't aware of that origin of the minotaur.
And well, it just appears now, I have a whole new appreciation for
Corey Bernardi, because he's actually just trying to protect us
from Minotaurs.
Yes, clearly.
As well as...
As far as Venardia, I seen it too in South Australia who says that
if you have gay marriage in Australia for overseas listener, it
will lead to bestiality.
Exactly.
That's why we call him Corgi Bernardi.
Yes, that's right.
So that's right. protecting us from Nimon and women in trousers.
Is that why when Soldid finally passes away, he giggles as he
died?
Is that why?
Because he's falling on Corey Banard?
Because he was enjoying this as much as I love this story.
I love this story.
And we should vote also.
Graham McDonald.
Sent notes. really early on to Tony Reid, to Anthony Reid, to Gray
William saying, this is the best script of the season so far.
Yes, I know.
City of Death.
He said, Graham McDonald said, this makes perfect sense to me.
Well, the thing is, Classically, because he sat on a Corinthian
column when he said it, you know.
If you're looking for action adventure and monsters and
interesting situations and characters getting split up and having
individual plots and adventures of their own, then Horns of Nylon
is superior to City of Death in that way.
That's superior to all of them.
Look, I saw a beautiful piece of embroidery on the interweb
today.
It was that little birds flying around.
It was embroide- It was like the thing that Judy Dench does.
And it just said, in lovely cursive script, if you're brave enough
everything is a dildo.
And I think that's what Graham McDonald as head of BBC loveliness
was saying down there.
He said, this inserted into this season is the finest piece of
release I could possibly achieve through your scriptings, Mr
Douglas Adams.
There's very funny things happening on the 6th floor.
Is that how you're being served?
I have the 6th floor is where you know you've done it in...
Yeah, yeah.
So, you know, management was up on the 6th floor and that was the
BBC reference because management was on the 6th floor of
television centre, which has now been demolished by the Tories.
And should we also mention that is that another reference of why
Tom Whack, Janet Ellis on the bum?
Oh, I didn't notice that.
Did you notice that?
Yes, there's again, to continue bum references.
We got a lovely split trouser scene from the Despicable Worm
guard.
And there were no...
No, it's weakling scum.
Oh, yeah, no, he gets called a typical worm, yeah.
Yes.
Do you do you remember there was a fan edit of this?
Yes, it was done by Kate.
Peter Griffiths and...
Simon Moore, I think?
Yeah, Simon Moore.
And we find it because I do remember this.
Yeah, we could ask them.
When we were kids, this was a joke.
Everyone thought this story was really terrible, the worst thing
ever.
Yeah.
And you remember fashionable young adults.
Well, there was that reaction once Nathan Turner came along and we
got into next year's stories, everyone thought that Graham
Williams's stuff was rubbish and, you know, even Doctor Who
magazine kind of was taking that as its party line as well.
So we all knew that we were in this glorious new era of the 80s
and that the late 70s had been really terrible.
And so, um, the horns of Nyman was this joke, and they cut
together this thing, which was really quite funny, and they used
to show it at conventions and fan meetings.
But most of the big laughs came, in fact, from lines that were
intentionally meant to be funny in horns of night, by the people
who created it.
And as I seem to recall, I think it was Peter Griffiths once told
me, that it was a 60 minute edit because they had a 60 minute tape
to hand when they started because, of course, you know, all of
this was on double VHS deck using a mixing desk what happened.
It comes up.
The Horns of Naimon by Anthony Reed, part one.
Then the Horns of Naimon, Anthony Reed, part one, crossed out, part
two.
Sorry we only had the omnibus edition.
And despite the fact that they only have 60 minutes.
They constantly reuse that clip of Graham Crowd and wandering down
a corridor.
Lord, I'm on, Lord, I'm on.
It is I, sold deed.
I think they also repeatedly have the guard from episode one
walking through and calling the an Ethan's weakling skull as
well.
Although that does actually happen over and over again in the
episode.
And they immensely improve the co-pilot's bleatings when he's
begging the Naimon to spare him at the end of episode 3 by having
Peter Griffith's voiceover.
This scene has a terrible performance.
So we're going to talk over it by pointing out that if you look
here in 10 seconds, Porky's trousers are going to split, which
they do as he dies.
It really is Doily Cart doing Doctor Who, isn't it?
If if Gilbert and Sullivan had simply been co-writers of Douglas
Adams, I don't think we would have got a different story.
Just with a few more coloratura moments from Graham, never the
doctor crowd and...
Do we get a window into how, because I suppose everyone knows the
Graham Crown was up for the 4th doctor?
Yes, yes.
Yeah, I think we do we get an impression of how he would have
played it had he simply been cast?
Can you imagine?
Because he was, he was there for, he was known for playing wacky
doctors.
And he did again with Peter Davis in a very peculiar practice, of
course.
Yeah, that's the thing.
I think he would have played it a bit more like peculiar practice
because peculiar practice.
I want him to do it in that outfit.
With that colour, yeah.
Because peculiar practice, he's a very eccentric character, but
his delivery is very straight.
It's just what he says is very eccentric.
And I think that's how he would have played the doctor.
Much like he is in waiting for God.
You know, in waiting for God, he says outrageous and ridiculous
things.
But with bearing and gravitas, you know, like he's woken up from
daydream and says, I was just climbing up the Himalayas with Oscar
Wilde and Stephanie Cole, who's who is the other lead in that
series, would say, oh, you're an old fool, et cetera.
Have you seen Waiting for God?
I've never seen it.
It's really quite wonderful.
You know, as much as I love as time goes by.
As time goes by, it's a bit saccharine.
Whereas waiting for God is just 2 old people who, yeah, they've
just had enough, and they're children of shoved them into this
nursing home, which is run by Chris Parsons.
Oh really?
Oh, we'll get to that.
But we're getting ahead of ourselves.
Back to the haunts of Nymar.
No, look, I love this one. while we're going on old lovies.
Sorry, while we're going on old lovies, isn't it terrific to see
just how far Professor Waterfield would go to get away from his
daughter?
Yes, he's John Bailey.
Sees on.
John Bailey is Edward Waterfield.
Oh, really?
Wow.
Doctor, you're not still travelling with Victoria.
I don't blame you.
He's great, isn't he good?
And you're talking about gravitas.
He really gives us that whole thing of, you know, the highs and
lows as you're referencing the Greek tragedy.
I think is the best thing in it.
I think he may be the guest performer of the season, possibly 2nd
to Myra Francis.
Well, I think they should have had their own spinoff, don't you?
Speaking of sitcoms with Stephanie Cole.
Because that's where the story really, really gets scary.
And I...
Myra Francis.
Yeah, just referencing her.
But it is, isn't it?
beautifully done. beautifully done.
See, I've got a bit of a memory about that episode, if I might
share it.
This is another one that I didn't have on videotape until I was
about 12, I think.
And the ABC...
This is when we saw it, really, 1st time, we were about the same
age, yeah.
And the ABC were repeating it in the afternoons.
And so I taped episode one and 2 and episode 3 was the next day.
And some of my cousins were visiting, Leah and Daniel, and I quite
treasure the story because Daniel is sadly no longer with us.
And we were out having a walk.
And I suddenly realised that it was a fine 15 and doctor was on at
5.30 or something like that.
And Daniel said, oh, you know, we've got to get back.
Daniel was about 5 years old.
We've got to get back and so we ran home.
Well, you should have known better. 5 years old, I believe.
So he ran home and my mum had remembered to record it, which was
quite a momentous moment in itself because she wasn't very good
with the VCR.
And so we got there just at the end.
So I rearround the tape to watch it and Daniel went off to do
something else.
I said, don't you want to watch this?
And he said, I'm 15.
I'm a 15-year-old boy.
I've got a lot of things to do in my room apart from watching
Doctor Who.
Well, that's the thing.
He said, oh, no, I don't like Doctor Who. didn't want you to miss
it.
Oh, isn't that lovely?
So he didn't beat you up for making you come home and watch Doctor
Who.
See, that's what nice 15-year-olds were like.
But he didn't.
So, you were going to say, you changed his life and he just
absolutely loved Doctor Who.
No, no, no.
No, that's just a little window.
Well, I used to try and Priscillitize.
I used to try. and try and induct others, children, and I still
have the scars.
How about yourself, Nathan?
You still do that, don't you?
You still enable youth?
Well, yeah, no, we have a Doctor Who club at school.
We're watching.
And I know some of your students listen.
So hello, Nathan's Doctor Who.
Hello, and I hope that all my other lovely things that I've said
on this podcast still get through.
Yeah, yeah, no, we cut them all out.
Most of it gets cut.
So, you know, look forward to the unexpurgated version of your
18th birthdays.
So that scene with season on the planet, Krena.
So it's a little bit like Inferno, isn't it?
where we go to a parallel world where the disaster has played out
and we get to see what Nymon has in store for it.
But it's what they later do in The Simpsons in Marge versus the
Monorail, where Marge goes to North Haverbrook to find the
disaster that's been wrought on that town.
And there's that guy who's like sees on the guy who stops to have
a haircut and then rushes back.
He's the doctor.
She was the doctor all along.
And Matt Greening is a Doctor Who fan.
Yes, he is.
Massively major, Doctor Who.
I was just going to say, of course, I mean, the obvious, you know
lodestone in the room that there's no question, Chris Chippeners
if you want a female doctor, you just cast Lala Wardigan.
She has already played it.
I'm too excited by the prospect of Olivia Coleman as Doctor Who.
With David Tennant as what, Saul the Flying Church.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. something like that.
As a regenerated donor.
There is talk about that, but that's for not now, that they're
trying to get Catherine Tate interested in this show, but it could
just be a chat.
I love how Catherine Tate, even after being in the show for a year
knows nothing about it.
No, she thinks the Daleks are still in every single episode.
Yeah, yeah.
My favourite Catherine Tate moment is when she was on Nevermind
the Bozcox.
Before I did the show, I thought his name was Mr. Who, and he went
to university and he became a doctor.
Yeah, you can't, yeah, savant, the whole thing.
I think she's just playing a part there.
I got the impression from those commentaries that she is
devastatingly intelligent.
She is.
Oh, you can be in your own universe and still be devastatingly
intelligent, which is, I suppose, through a black hole where
Nyman's, for goodness sake, who dresses the Nyimons?
Really?
Did they work all of that out themselves?
On top of the pops?
Did you know they were meant to be hideously ugly beasties that
couldn't bear their own visage?
They put the balls heads on.
Well, they had the beautiful ornate masks that actually covered
their whole upper torsos, which is very interesting if you like it
in a post-Star Trek universe that these creatures were so real
like, that they presented a beautiful golden mask, Agamemnon, like
golden mask, but they were actually Medusae.
Right.
Who do you say underneath?
Very much more interesting.
And that the dancers, because, you know, they were hired, dancers
in cork wedgies, it's in 3 foot platform heels.
Imagine how your mother's suffered boys who are.
I'm beginning to wonder whether those are cafern, you know, the
beautiful.
Yeah, those things, the boots that are associated with Greek
tragedy, you know, I wonder why that's why they're wearing the
high heels.
I think it's just because it's a bit of flash.
Yeah, probably.
But then again, every generation has its 79, doesn't it?
I think that the idea is lovely.
I like to think even watching this, I thought, no, you're not
bulls, you're something else underneath.
I just triggered a response when I was reading that.
I think as a boy, we never read them as being bulls in leggings.
I think people thought that they were wearing something else.
Well, you can see how the carapace stops at the back.
They've got a lot of side bottom too in those out.
That's a terrific term.
A fair amount of time.
This episode gives you a great deal of sideway leers and side
bottoms.
They've got great voices.
And hats.
There are some terrific hats and voice, yes, their voices are
great.
Yeah they're really good.
They come back in what, seasons of fear or something?
I was just going to say as my pick of this episode.
Please listen to Paul Cornell's early big finish 8 doctor.
It's a terrific story.
Yeah, and then now I'm on a perfect to bring back on audio because
I didn't guess it was there. great.
No, I didn't know that.
No, not a Raic cult.
Because they were just, you know, the nylon were actually
challenging the early Western world, as against Christianity
because Mithraism could have easily become the alternate religion
other than Christianity.
We could have all been worshipping Naimon as we speak, and perhaps
it's kind of where we are.
Well, Nathan, you're in those platforms that he's swearing right
now.
Usually, Brendan and I have frock cup, but you've done a lovely
job this week.
I am wearing Soldi's hat as well.
I actually like the other blokes I never remember.
Yeah, he just looks like he's he's going to do a lovely stum Steve
Strange fate to gray moment for us all.
Well, they rub his sleeves.
They're great.
Trosely.
Well, you know, it was really heavy.
Oh, yeah.
And velvet pressed onto foam rubber and it cost a fortune.
The BBC were promoting the story for its cosiness.
Yeah, well, and of course, it's definitely a frop show.
He used to fall over between the takes and he couldn't get up.
Yeah, yeah.
It's in Pixley.
Tom was to get him up.
Tom was cruelly using him as a beanbag.
The costumes, it was.
Guess off me, you're very heavy.
June Hudson.
Yeah, that's why she's fabulous. that's why Romano looks so
great.
That's why Romano is dressed in her hunting pinks, which, of
course, ladies only wear black when they go hunting, but she's
wearing hunting pinks, and I think it's definitely June's
thinking.
Hmm, alternate doctor.
Well, you know, Tom was busy doing other things and that's why
he's not in those scenes with Professor Waterfield.
It's actually they were, Tom was meant to go.
Oh, right.
But for whatever reason, during rehearsals or script wise, they
gave Lala more work.
No, she's great in it too.
I think it's quite wonderful.
Yeah.
And this is this is actually a very good point for a visit from an
obelisk.
I actually quite like this story.
However, Tom Baker is out of control by this state.
But do you think it's because he's actually trying to compensate
for all of the production values that aren't going right?
But there are other things in this that I think work quite well.
I actually really like the Naimon.
And I think this is a tuitive force for Lala Ward as Romana.
I'm about to activate the randomiser.
Again, I wonder where my time bubble will end up next.
Will I be on a beach in Brighton?
Will I be in Cambridge?
I guess we'll find out next week.
I'm very glad you raised that, Mr. Floaty, because, as we all now
know, this was Doug and Graham, saying, Okay, Tom, you want to run
the story your way without a companion, and just have it
hilariously fun, and jokes and japes, for the kiddies, and for
everyone who loves you at home, and just have, you know, the
doctor being able to behave like this, this was to show him how
awful, just again, another deadly assassin, how awful it would
have been.
So just as Hinchcliffe had to do it for Assassin, we now have
Williams and Douglas Adams showing him how it wouldn't have
worked.
And he still didn't get it.
He said, oh, no, no, Lana doesn't love you. you know, if you go to
have a companion, let them be the doctor and I'll just have fun.
Yeah, so he just faps about him the TARDIS for like scene after
scene after scene.
It's deliberately done to give Tom his head so he'd shut up after
seeing how awful it was.
He didn't get it.
It's actually a bit awful.
Like, I love Tom.
I think, you know, watching Tom on screen is fantastic.
He just...
Boom, boom, boom.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, and there's a there's a ruler
twanging in there and all sorts of things.
It's actually the sound effect for major Dennis Bloodnock
stomach.
It is from the goo, really?
No, it really is.
It's been gone.
It's been put through a filter, but it is a sound effect.
Yeah, which damn the curried watermelon.
Which dear listener you heard at the beginning of this episode.
Yeah, I find Tom is actually really flat in those scenes.
And I think not that I'm blaming David Bryanley, of course, but
it's because he's bouncing off canine.
Tom is at his best when he has human actors to bounce off.
And, well, the thing is, we've seen so many times that Tom's
performance and the level of Tom's performance depends on who he's
acting with.
Yes, I really does.
You know, like when Julian Glover is playing everything so
straight down the line in City of Death, Tom is he's zany, but
still does the zaniness on very one level.
And, you know, oh, I'm just talking to you and normally, and isn't
that a wonderful Louis Kim's chair?
dont hit him over the head with a dog, that sort of thing.
Then you get him in the scene with Graham Crowd and where he's
talking about a black hole on my doorstep and they're both
amazing.
It's wonderful, isn't it?
That is great.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But it takes 40 minutes for the doctor to get into the plot.
But like the cliffhanger to episode one is just terrible and it's
clearly meant to be so hilariously funny.
It's coming for us and then he's protected. that's right.
And then he's protecting K9, like he's giving K9 a hug and stuff.
And it's just stupid. really is.
But the scene with Crowd and later on is also super stupid and
super silly, but it's much, much more entertaining to watch.
And despite the fact it's hilarious.
It's still really menacing.
Like, the way Graham Crowden says a black hole on my doorstep.
Digging a black hole.
I mean, God, why wasn't he being the merciless next year in Flash
Gordon?
As much as I love Max von- Max von Sitau.
Oh, Max von Seidel?
Whatever you like.
He's a friendly chat.
And it's troubles.
Yeah, and it's...
You could have had graham crab.
We practical, Graham Crabin is practically playing Ming the
Merciless in this without the epicanthic folds.
But he's great and he's wonderful on the commentary. barely
remembers a bloody thing.
Lullaward's great on the commentary as well because as soon as
Sorak walks in, she says, and guest starring the Sydney Opera
House.
I really wish more of their adlives had been kept in because
Lala's so good at all of that.
And, you know, just I would have liked Douglas to have Adams to
have made a guest appearance in one of these stories.
Yeah, another thing that Kate and Simon and Peter did on that fan
edit is that every time the poor co-pilot speaks as played by
Malcolm Terrace, they would just superimpose the word oink
underneath him in pink letters.
That's kind of fat shaming, really.
It is, isn't it?
Also, the pilot Bob Hornery actually had quite a long career. real
name.
He actually had quite a long career.
And I can't remember who it was.
But one of my old drinking buddies in the UK swore blind that he
knew someone who played a pilot on Doctor Who.
And then came back to me a week later and, you know, he was saying
oh, you know, he was in this episode with bulls and whatnot.
I said, oh, is his name Malcolm?
Oh, you know, it was a friend of the family.
I'll have to go check.
It came back.
No, it was Bob.
I'm like, Bob Pornery, the pilot.
He said, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And he always said that he was killed in episode one because he
said he read the rest of the script and didn't want to be in it.
Yeah, well, you know, I doubt that, but that's probably something
you said after the fact.
No, honestly, mum, that's why my career didn't work out.
Can I have some more money?
Well, he, apparently, he actually had quite a long career paying
civil servants and what have you.
So he did a bit of an Alec Guinness, which is, oh God, this is all
a bit crap, isn't it?
This will never go anywhere.
He was a bit of a that guy.
He did look kind of familiar.
Marlowe Thomas of Doctor Who.
I will say that the Nimon actors have wonderful names.
We have Robin Sherringham...
They have lovely bottoms too.
But we have Robin Sherringham.
We have Bob Applebee and we have Trevor St.
John Hacker.
Wow, it's probably pronounced St.
John Hack.
Dead Butch names, all three.
No, they were dancers.
They're all dancers.
I kind of want to call.
Physical act.
I kind of want to cosplayers and I'm on despite the fact I'm 5
foot three.
Actually, that could be pretty hilarious.
You have to have 5 foot boots.
Yeah, so, well, I've got my Katie boots.
Just up the local shops.
Something doesn't have to be any event.
Just go to cosplayer.
Yeah, just go and get a beef sablaaki up the road. you know
something a bit thematic.
He has a name.
So Kenny McBain.
Directing is one and only Doctor Who story.
Yeah, because he dies almost immediately afterwards.
Shame.
He's dead by...
Yeah, the age of 42.
Yeah, it might be awful.
Straight up.
So and so did Simon Gibbs Kent, who played Seth.
He died in 1987.
Oh, really?
Of, yes, of being in the 1980s.
And he's also in episode one of Blackadder.
So he didn't die of shame.
He did something good before he died.
I think he's quite good in this, yeah. he was very popular.
He's a bit wet, but the character is a bit wet.
And I'm quite sympathetic to like that bit in the 1st episode, I
think it is.
Well, the 2nd episode where he's telling Romana his story.
I think he does that really well and really sells the idea that
he's, you know, just been caught up in these circumstances and he
doesn't feel like a hero, but he gets to be a hero in there.
But he doesn't.
I think that that's the problem is that to pay that scene off.
He really needs to be the one.
I know we don't do that in this era of Doctor Who.
But he needs to be the one who actually does do something heroic
at the end.
But all he really does is run down a corridor with a stick and
then run back when he sees some nyimons coming.
He saves the doctor from Soldi in episode four.
Yeah, no, he does.
He sticks and he sticks somewhere.
Oh, he shoots Salde, doesn't he?
Yes, another stick, another garnet in his massive wand.
I do like that they're running about in their grandmother's
curtains.
Yes.
Oh, is that the fun track family?
They really are all wearing curtains.
And I also like that they're the Ian and Blyton youth characters
in this.
And Lala was always pushing for that.
Oh, she wants more for the kids.
But I think it plays nicely against it.
And now I did visually.
Even though this is a cheap story, there are great things in it.
Do you remember being 12 years of age and thinking, how exciting
the TARDIS has a vortex tunnel field effect that can extends the
door force field?
That blew my mind.
That's amazing at 12.
And I've got to say, it still looks fine now.
Yeah, yeah.
It's so exciting.
I mean, the model work sells it and kind of people we are.
The weird thing is, it's models on video again, but yeah, I think
far more effective than the ones in.
I'm doing it now to Brendan's head.
I'm the asteroid, am I?
Photo.
The models are very effective.
And you can tweet this straight away, Nathan.
So when you hear this podcast in about 4 weeks, dear listener
you'll know what this tweet was all about.
The models are really effective in that sequence and Tom and Lal
they get the ramp at the perfect angle that they're walking down
through the tunnel and they're mucking about with the scarf.
And yeah, it's another another lovely moment.
And despite...
Lots of lovely moments in this, aren't we?
Despite the fact, as Todd says, Tom is a bit out of control.
He still gets he's gravitous moment.
Well, isn't he just balancing soul deed?
Yeah, yeah.
But that's the thing.
Yeah, yeah.
He's all jokes until that.
Now, where's Romana?
And you get you get the cold steel and the whole thing about...
Yeah, when he's angry about what the Naimon are doing and what
have you.
And I didn't I didn't mention last week with Nightmare of Eden, but
you know, that intensity at the end, go away.
Yeah, that was quite good.
I liked that too.
That's the thing.
I think Tom is a little bit out of control.
But at the same time, he hasn't, like, say his predecessor, retired
from acting.
No, you know.
And as much as I love John.
I don't think John retires from acting and stays retired.
I think he retires from acting until he gets a moment he likes and
then he comes back in full force.
Whereas Tom is always full force, just not always going in the
right direction.
Yeah, it's actually very, you're right, very different styles of
performance, and there is petulance in Pertwe's performance, but
then he is an 18th century dandy.
So that was part of part of the whole.
I mean, I think both of them are obnoxious to their co-stars from
time to time.
I think both of them would have been really difficult to work
with.
Perjury is acting sometimes.
And Tom isn't.
You know, Tom is a performance, but it's a compelling
performance.
He's what you want to see on television.
And so the character...
Yeah, yeah.
And the character doesn't have much interiority.
You're not really invited to wonder how the doctor's feeling in a
particular moment.
Which we called mystery in those days.
But he's just really compelling to watch.
And it does, as you say, Brandon, miss fire from time to time.
Sometimes it's embarrassing or it deforms a scene or something
like that.
But he's so compelling to watch.
And we're really at the tail end of a season where things are
going to change really quite drastically in his performance after
this.
I do wonder.
And I haven't been able to find any strong indication of this, but
they would have known that this story was going out over
Christmas.
And I think there is a definite effort to make it into a Christmas
show. you know, to make it sparkly and to make it panto-y.
I feel to that.
It's all denied, you know, in the later things, but come on, it
was so long ago.
It is the 1st story of the 80s.
I usually have a festive, uh, desiccated an Ethan corpse, uh, in
the corner. because we're talking about all the lightness and
silliness, but there is great chiaroscuro here.
Theres darkness as well.
And, okay, Sol D doesn't necessarily get there, but you know, a
lot of this running out of time.
Graham Crowth and scenes were rehearsal shoots that he didn't
think were going to be recorded.
So when he giggles when he dies, of course, he's laughing with Tom
or whomever to start a shock because it's terrible, darling.
And that's so, yeah, so that happens quite a bit in this.
But the corpse, see, this is totally space 1979, it's this
beautiful thing, desiccated corpse, and then you touch it and just
like a lovely macaroon. and it's still startling today.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I think Janet Ellis sells that money. startling as well.
And then she actually gets the line of, you know, that's what's
going to happen to us.
My career.
That's right.
I saw Janet Ellis at a convention once.
And it was very interesting because this was just after Blue Peter
had been dropped to, I think, one episode a week and the studio
had been moved and cut and what have you.
And Peter Purpose was at the same convention and they were
interviewed separately.
And Peter Purpose was...
Peter Purvis was asked, what do you think of the move with Blue
Peter?
And he said, well, you know, with new media and internet and
things, it's still relevant for children, but perhaps not as much
as it was, and this could be a way to save the program.
And if you distil the quality of 2 episodes into one really
excellent episode, then I'm all for it.
Whereas when Janet Ellis was asked, she said, no, no, they're
trying to kill the program.
So it's very interesting to get those 2 perspectives.
But Janet Ellis also said...
I will have my revenge and have a daughter that will that will
sing at you for, go on.
So someone said, have you shown Sophie, Ellis Baxter, your Doctor
Who story?
She's like, oh, yeah, you know, she really likes the outfit.
She wants to dress up like Romana.
And she said, you know, it's fun because Sophie and I head out
together.
And we go to karaoke bars and I embarrass her by singing her
songs.
Do you know the other thing about Sophie Ellis Bexter?
She's an out Doctor Who fan?
Oh, yeah.
She's actually said it.
And even to the point that some of her Vs.
There are autons in her clips, there are other things that way
before Will Baker was doing it for, well, probably actually around
exactly the same time.
Sorry, Soph, that was doing it for Kylie.
You've got, yeah, lots of Doctor Who references.
Sophie, apparently, this is just apocryphal.
I don't know if any of you know the truth, was interested in being
on the show.
No, that's true.
But Russell was, they just didn't find a place for her or?
I think it was scheduling because Janet did mention that in her
interview and she said, you know, also, Sophie wants to be on the
show and she's discussed it with them, but it was a matter of
scheduling because despite the fact that we may not hear so much
about Sophie these days.
She's out coming out to Australia again.
Yeah, exactly.
She, you know, she is still touring and she is still putting out
new music.
It's just, you know.
Sounds exactly the same as it did 10 years ago, but yeah
especially used to, I happen to have all of the tears, so, you
know, I have no shame.
But they like lots of lovely Doctor Who references.
There are even lines in some of her songs.
Oh, God, I'm tragic, but do reference Doctor Who.
There's that one line where she says she knows so little about
telebiogenesis.
Yeah, that's the thing.
There are actually sound grabs from Tristram Carey on one of her
tracks.
Yeah, I've got it here in the notes.
And that wonderful number 27 hit, Seth will defeat the night mono
restore piece to NF.
For those of you underwear, because I don't think we said it at
the beginning.
So the singer, Sophie Ellis-Bexter, is the daughter of Tika
actress Janet Ellis.
Yeah, and if you don't know that, why are you listening to this
podcast?
There's nothing else in it that'll make sense.
There's nothing heterosexual in this entire 4 episodes is there.
There's absolutely nothing.
You know, it is somehow it manages to be incredibly camp and
incredibly menacing at the same time.
Okay, so are you saying they're in distinct properties?
Is there distinct properties?
Are you saying they're distinct properties?
I don't see.
No, no, it's just that quite often in television, when you get one
you don't get the other.
You know, Mr. Humphreys was never particularly menacing.
Oh I don't know.
Louis Fiander was never particularly missing last week, either, for
the same reason.
But then every great villain in television and theatre history has
been an evil camp, old bugger.
That's true.
There is the child of Vinda Kay.
Well, I don't know that that's necessarily outside.
Our Venn diagram, is it?
He's definitely camp.
You know he's having it off with Showak.
Oh, no, he might be gay, but he's completely, he plays it so
completely straight.
I don't think this is taken of camp either.
Tell me that glove slapping isn't camp.
Yeah, I think I think it's game set and matched.
And, and, you know, not only that, but he throws he throws shade
on Prentice Hancock.
I'll show you.
What are you?
Impatient, Captain.
Oh, oh, I know.
All right, we're abandoning Haunts of Norman and re-recording
another...
The WCB stories, whiny controlling Bolton.
You can really hear the graph just pushy PCBs.
You know what?
I really love this story.
And the only reason I can see, I can sort of legitimise the hate
that it gets is, you know what?
Yes, it does look cheap.
It's another cuff cotting exercise to pay for shada.
Sure.
You know, I hope that works out.
Yeah, me too.
But that being said, I think the sets for this are so much better
than the ones for nightmare reading, because as I mentioned before
we have relief in the sense, we have levels to the set.
It's the designer is Graham's story on this one.
You know, we have levels in the sets.
We have things in the foreground, we have things in the
background.
Yeah, we have fake skies, but we've always had fake skies. so
strange.
I mean, I like them a lot, but it is really, like, it's not
naturalistic.
They not standing in buildings.
They're standing on these sort of flaws on the surface with
these...
The top of the pops videos.
It is, really.
Yeah.
This is why I like it.
Or BBC Shakespeare.
Did that as well?
But it's that hypernaturalism to the point that it's surreal in
itself.
It's not trying to be realistic.
It's actually imitating other forms.
And in this case, it's video pop.
Yeah.
No, I think that's right.
And it looks, I think it works really well.
June Hudson was in on that one, don't you?
Yeah, she's crazy.
And of course, the crinol sets are a lot more realistic, if you
like.
You don't, more darkly lit and, you know, it's a complex with
walls and you don't see the fake sky.
All of that built just to avoid Victoria Waterfall.
And you know, to give Tom a Dale.
But yeah, maybe that feeds into the idea of hyper realism because
you know, life on Skonos is great at the moment and everything's
hyper real and isn't it wonderful and eat the soylent and have
your cupcake in a cup because soon you're going to be like this.
Or cream tea.
Didn't you use sconos and just thought, oh, thank goodness, green
tea.
Desperate.
This is a lovely, lovely story.
This is the last story of the 70s. one of these episodes went out
in the 80s.
So it's the 1st story of the 80s.
I think it's a beautiful swan song to a magnificent era.
There's a lovely essay in license denied, which is a collection
put together by Paul Cornell that Nathan has cited previously, of
just lovely things, some fandom of when the 90s was re-looking at
it.
And one of them, my favourite essays is why the Nimon is our
friend.
And it just talks about as we did last time with Tom and Blauer
being the doctor and Romana and facing off against the dreariness
of the world by being individual and celebrating art and life and
fun.
Yeah, celebrating fun.
I actually think that's my Nightmare of Eden.
Nathan, so it doesn't work because its message is too pathetic, if
you like.
Whereas this one is, oh, come on, don't be silly.
Be silly.
Yeah, this seems like the ultimate thing you were saying, you've
been saying all of this, Susan, Richard, of the individual against
that's the thing.
Thank you.
The individual against doll, the doll ascribed.
I actually say it's against capitalism.
Because, of course, that's where he was coming from.
At this point.
All of the humanoid characters in the story, the Skonons and the
Anethens and the people of Krinnoff, they're just being used for
fuel.
They have no life, they have no quality of life.
Even the Skonons who are trying to build their empire, all they're
living for is this empire, except for...
Sorak.
Do you feel it's a remake of that marvellous 1926 film Metropolis
which we should mention was made in German expressions?
Mm, where everyone's sort of part of a big giant machine.
Yeah, yeah.
Expressionistically, so...
Yeah, and the thing is, I just said that because I wanted a
reaction.
You've got Sorak.
He's the one constantly asking questions.
He's the one constantly asking questions, but why are we doing
this?
And isn't there something more?
You know, and he's...
You know, Soul Deed can't revive K9 because he's just doing it to
get something he wants, whereas Sorak does it out of curiosity and
manages to revive him, you know?
There's always the moment of hope and sentience in the
individual.
There's always a moment of we will transcend our currents
blandness by simply using our imaginations. simply thinking
outside.
Tom and Lala are just out now, of course, on Big Finish doing new
series, the 5th series, the 4th doctor.
Isn't it wonderful?
Well, it's Justin Richards wrote a really whizzing script, and I'm
not going to say who the villains are, but it feels like an
Avengers story, and it's set in the 60s, and I thought, yes, this
is how I felt looking at the Douglas Adams season.
And for me, this is the Tomman.
Lama seasons, but we're not over yet, are we?
We kind of are.
Yeah, aren't we?
We really can't.
It depends how you look at cannon.
I mean, I like to, I think it's a good place to reminisce about
this season and the impact it had.
That license denied.
A collection has an article by Gareth Roberts called Tom II, which
is a defence of this era, and his defence is that it's just
terrifically fun.
And when we kind of do our Jenny Land awards and things next week
maybe I'll have criticisms to make.
But I really enjoy just the tone, just the dialogue.
There are so many funny throwaway lines all the way through, like
this story and the last story and the previous one, which is just
Douglas Adams, you know, you've got a brilliant, clever comedy
writer doing the script editing, but a writer who is aware of the
need to be serious and to be scary and to have something to say.
And it just works really well.
The relationship between Tom and Lala is great.
I really, really enjoy this.
I'm not blind to its flaws, but gee, it's been fun.
And of course, depending on your version of canon.
We will be doing Shada next week, but some people don't count
Shada.
And if you don't count Shada, that means this is the last
performance by David Brierly as K9.
Yes.
And his last line of dialogue.
Negative, master. poor thing.
I love David Reilly.
He is wonderful.
You know what?
I think he does a great job.
He makes the character his own, well, you know, he carries on the
idea of the character, but he doesn't try to just copy what John
Leeson did.
Because I think it's far worse when a voice actor tries to copy
exactly and gets it wrong, then if they go, I'm going to go with
the vague ballpark and get a similar kind of voice.
Because he does end up with a similar voice, you can tell it's
different.
You do know that canine's computer brain has tarrial cells in it
and so for this season is under control by Aurac. my goodness.
That makes perfect.
Yeah, yeah, that's really happening.
I'm happy with that.
Well done.
Like so much of this season.
Despite each of the stories has flaws, as we've discussed, you can
put on any of them and have a good time.
Yeah, like a frock.
As we glanced off from Sconus with our ship painted white.
I hope you remember to do that, did you?
We're going to set the randomiser, and as Todd said earlier, we
may end up in Cambridge, or we may end up in Brighton.
No, we're going to Cambridge.
Okay.
Please check out our website at flightthroughentirety.com, flight
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Until next week, may all your power complexes fit.
Thank you very much and good night.
Good night.
That was Flood Your Entirety, with Despicable Worm, Wiggling Scum
and Meddlesome Hustling.
This episode, falling on Corey Bernardi, was recorded on the 6th
of February 2016.
The next episode will be released on February 28th.
This episode is dedicated to Bob Horner, who in fact had a 60-year
career and passed away last year in Melbourne.
Horns of Nimon, February 6th.
No, it's the horns of Naimon.
Keep that in.
The previous one was N Arthurus.
This one has the article.
It's my job to know that.
Yep.
And you can put that up here in Altra.
Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight through
Entirety.
The only Doctor Who...
I dried and then a car horn.
Right, okay.