WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 16:10:04 1 00:00:30.239 --> 00:00:34.859 Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety 2 00:00:34.859 --> 00:00:39.000 the only Doctor Who podcast forced aboveground by lush, aggressive 3 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:39.479 vegetation. 4 00:00:39.539 --> 00:00:40.320 I'm Brendan. 5 00:00:40.380 --> 00:00:41.100 I'm Nathan. 6 00:00:41.219 --> 00:00:42.960 Thanks, be to Todd. 7 00:00:44.100 --> 00:00:46.920 It's Megalos, ladies and gentlemen. 8 00:00:53.219 --> 00:00:59.759 So, we are in the second story of 1980 season, or, in terms of 9 00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:04.260 production, the third, because production order went the leisure 10 00:01:04.260 --> 00:01:07.200 hive, state of decay, then Meglos. 11 00:01:07.260 --> 00:01:10.680 And the reason for this was leisure hive, the script was already 12 00:01:10.680 --> 00:01:13.560 in development when John Nathan Turner and Christopher Bid being 13 00:01:13.560 --> 00:01:13.799 started. 14 00:01:13.859 --> 00:01:17.700 State of decay, of course, was adapted from the Abandoned the 15 00:01:17.700 --> 00:01:21.900 Vampire Mutations by Terence Dix, which became horror fang rock. 16 00:01:21.959 --> 00:01:23.159 Which became horror fang rock. 17 00:01:23.219 --> 00:01:24.900 They had these two scripts ready to go. 18 00:01:24.959 --> 00:01:28.079 And then Christopher Bid meet, much like John Nathan Turner wanted 19 00:01:28.079 --> 00:01:29.040 to bring new writers in. 20 00:01:29.099 --> 00:01:34.439 And in this case, the writers were John Flanagan and Andrew 21 00:01:34.439 --> 00:01:35.459 McCulloch. 22 00:01:35.459 --> 00:01:39.900 Or the Bob Baker and Dave Martin of season 18, as I like to think 23 00:01:39.900 --> 00:01:40.140 of them. 24 00:01:40.200 --> 00:01:43.260 I think that's very unfair, because there's only one story going 25 00:01:43.260 --> 00:01:43.859 on here. 26 00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:47.579 And despite the fact they have a great, big, shiny object in my 27 00:01:47.579 --> 00:01:47.760 story. 28 00:01:47.819 --> 00:01:49.980 Don't get distracted by shiny objects and runoff. 29 00:01:50.099 --> 00:01:54.959 It was a cheap shot, but it's not a good script, though, is it? 30 00:01:55.019 --> 00:01:56.760 They had to run with it. 31 00:01:56.819 --> 00:02:00.599 And I think one of the things watching the documentary is how much 32 00:02:00.599 --> 00:02:05.040 fun they had actually putting this together and how well they get 33 00:02:05.040 --> 00:02:07.019 on with Christopher Hamilton bit me. 34 00:02:07.079 --> 00:02:07.379 Yeah. 35 00:02:07.379 --> 00:02:12.240 It's very different from the other documentaries for the rest of 36 00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:12.659 the season. 37 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:17.219 Yeah, because we'll talk next week about how Terrence Dix reacted 38 00:02:17.219 --> 00:02:20.580 to Christopher Pitt means her original rewrite of State of Decay. 39 00:02:20.699 --> 00:02:24.300 This script perhaps sticks out as not as good as the others around 40 00:02:24.300 --> 00:02:28.199 it, simply because this of the whole season is the most typical 41 00:02:28.199 --> 00:02:29.639 Doctor Who story. 42 00:02:29.819 --> 00:02:33.539 It's doctor and companion land on a planet and get embroiled in 43 00:02:33.539 --> 00:02:34.080 local politics. 44 00:02:34.139 --> 00:02:38.400 But I also think that Bidmead has not done as much work on this as 45 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:39.180 the other scripts. 46 00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:42.780 Obviously in episode one, you've got the whole chronic historesis 47 00:02:42.780 --> 00:02:45.479 thing, which I think is just golden. 48 00:02:45.539 --> 00:02:48.840 I mean, one of my all time favourite things ever in the history of 49 00:02:48.840 --> 00:02:49.379 Doctor Who. 50 00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:50.400 It's really fun, isn't it? 51 00:02:50.460 --> 00:02:53.639 It screams padding though, doesn't it? 52 00:02:53.699 --> 00:02:56.699 Oh, yes, it does, but I remember being in the playground at school 53 00:02:56.699 --> 00:03:00.719 and we were reenacting, had to break the chronic history. 54 00:03:00.780 --> 00:03:02.759 I mean is that insane or what? 55 00:03:02.819 --> 00:03:07.199 Everything is strictly scientific this year because of CH bid 56 00:03:07.199 --> 00:03:11.639 needs a commitment to having real science in the program. 57 00:03:11.699 --> 00:03:14.639 And so there would never be such a thing as a time loop that you 58 00:03:14.639 --> 00:03:17.219 can break out of just through the power of bad acting. 59 00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:22.080 Yeah, Christopher Bidmead's approach to science seems to be this 60 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:26.280 weird sort of science plus metaphysics approach, but I would argue 61 00:03:26.280 --> 00:03:29.759 it's a lot more successful than anything in space 1999 year one. 62 00:03:29.819 --> 00:03:33.300 Well, I mean, the science plus metaphysics approach is essentially 63 00:03:33.300 --> 00:03:34.199 magic, isn't it? 64 00:03:34.259 --> 00:03:35.819 I mean that's exactly what it is. 65 00:03:35.879 --> 00:03:39.960 They get out of it by aping the thing that they're trying to 66 00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:40.379 affect. 67 00:03:40.439 --> 00:03:43.139 You know, just like a voodoo doll looks like, the person that 68 00:03:43.139 --> 00:03:43.979 you're trying to harm. 69 00:03:44.039 --> 00:03:46.620 It's sympathetic magic is how they get out of it. 70 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:50.699 But didn't you just say that last week that Christopher said that 71 00:03:50.699 --> 00:03:53.819 he wanted to get rid of the magic, but he's actually perpetrating 72 00:03:53.819 --> 00:03:54.419 the magic. 73 00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:56.819 Yeah, well, I think he's, as I said last week. 74 00:03:56.879 --> 00:03:58.439 He's a terrible critic of himself. 75 00:03:58.500 --> 00:04:02.340 His account of what he's doing is worse than useless. 76 00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:03.719 He really doesn't know what he's doing. 77 00:04:03.780 --> 00:04:06.419 He doesn't know why he's good, for instance, I think. 78 00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:10.259 He's a bit like the 3rd doctor in the Damons, who spends 5 weeks 79 00:04:10.259 --> 00:04:14.219 telling us that magic doesn't exist, but then ends up going, oh 80 00:04:14.219 --> 00:04:15.599 there is magic in the world off. 81 00:04:15.659 --> 00:04:20.220 And it's kind of the thing, oh, saying, you don't believe in magic 82 00:04:20.220 --> 00:04:22.379 and everything for a reason, but then just enjoying something 83 00:04:22.379 --> 00:04:26.100 simpler, not being able to define why you enjoy eating chocolate 84 00:04:26.100 --> 00:04:28.860 or why you enjoy a terrible movie. 85 00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:32.459 Bidmead saying everything he's saying everything needs to be 86 00:04:32.459 --> 00:04:32.939 defined. 87 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:37.379 But his evidence is there is so much that's good about this season 88 00:04:37.379 --> 00:04:39.180 that is indefinable. 89 00:04:39.300 --> 00:04:43.680 I think there is a very strong kind of magic, a very strong kind 90 00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:46.920 of metaphysics all the way through, and it's going to be huge in 91 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:47.879 Warrior's Gate. 92 00:04:47.939 --> 00:04:51.420 But, you know, the way evolution works is nothing like the way it 93 00:04:51.420 --> 00:04:53.639 actually works, you know, in the world. 94 00:04:53.699 --> 00:04:58.500 Lots of things are representative or symbolic of other things. 95 00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:01.019 You know, it is, it's magic. 96 00:05:01.079 --> 00:05:06.600 I think here with this script too, the problems with it are much 97 00:05:06.600 --> 00:05:09.180 more obvious because I think the production values are as good as 98 00:05:09.180 --> 00:05:13.259 the other stories and so I think it falls apart a lot more. 99 00:05:13.319 --> 00:05:16.980 I don't like the whole where the scientists and where to read. 100 00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:17.939 Oh, that's terrible. 101 00:05:18.060 --> 00:05:20.160 I mean, that is just truly shockingly bad. 102 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:22.079 And not even in a Hartnell script. 103 00:05:22.139 --> 00:05:25.139 Would they be as unsubtle as that? 104 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:29.220 And then you've got those horrible blonde wigs and fortunes, but 105 00:05:29.220 --> 00:05:30.540 don't even work. 106 00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:31.560 Don't even fit, you know? 107 00:05:31.620 --> 00:05:34.620 The wings are kind of like stuck on them or something. 108 00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:36.360 Like they don't look like hair for a second. 109 00:05:36.420 --> 00:05:37.319 The sort of helmet hair. 110 00:05:37.379 --> 00:05:39.300 Yeah, someone's been watching UFO. 111 00:05:39.360 --> 00:05:39.959 Yeah, yeah. 112 00:05:40.019 --> 00:05:43.259 And then, of course, we've got problems with the space pirates who 113 00:05:43.259 --> 00:05:46.319 are, oh, surprise, surprise, look like pirates. 114 00:05:46.379 --> 00:05:48.300 I think they're great. 115 00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:50.759 And I think their costumes are fantastic. 116 00:05:50.819 --> 00:05:52.439 And the 2 leads. 117 00:05:52.560 --> 00:05:53.879 So terrible. 118 00:05:53.939 --> 00:05:55.199 They're really funny. 119 00:05:55.259 --> 00:06:00.000 General Grugger is fantastically funny. and I love Lieutenant 120 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:04.259 Brotadak in his obsession with his jacket being torn and then his 121 00:06:04.259 --> 00:06:06.899 desire to get hold of Tom's coat and stuff. 122 00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:08.879 I think they're terrific. 123 00:06:08.939 --> 00:06:11.519 Did you notice one of the space pirates is wearing only gazole 124 00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:12.540 glittery road? 125 00:06:12.779 --> 00:06:16.259 Yeah, they're just sort of crappy costumes from stock. 126 00:06:16.319 --> 00:06:17.879 But they look really good. 127 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:20.339 And I think they're really fun. 128 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:23.040 And I think, you know, we do talk about the production values 129 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:24.480 being not quite so high on this one. 130 00:06:24.480 --> 00:06:26.759 And certainly it's not as visually striking. 131 00:06:26.819 --> 00:06:29.639 It's not as well directed as last week, but you know, what is. 132 00:06:29.699 --> 00:06:30.360 Yeah. 133 00:06:30.360 --> 00:06:33.839 So this is a bit flatter, but I think there are some great touches 134 00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:35.639 and there's some great ambition. 135 00:06:35.699 --> 00:06:39.480 So in episode one when we 1st see the screens of Zolpha Furore. 136 00:06:39.540 --> 00:06:42.600 We're also treated to the view of the fishing wire that's holding 137 00:06:42.600 --> 00:06:45.060 the moon up in the sky. 138 00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:50.759 But and some, you know, terrible CSO fringing and all of that sort 139 00:06:50.759 --> 00:06:56.160 of thing, you know, but the camera moves and the CSO, the keyed in 140 00:06:56.160 --> 00:06:59.399 model moves at exactly the same rate, that's flawless. 141 00:06:59.459 --> 00:07:01.500 There's real ambition about it. 142 00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:05.459 The model shot, you know, last week's model we pointed out was a 143 00:07:05.459 --> 00:07:08.519 bit rudimentary, but, you know, completely rescued by being 144 00:07:08.519 --> 00:07:10.199 incredibly beautifully direct.. 145 00:07:10.259 --> 00:07:15.120 This week the model is, you know, has moving parts and, you know 146 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:16.259 he shot from quite low down. 147 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:18.240 I think it looks pretty good. 148 00:07:18.300 --> 00:07:21.959 You know, the scenes, you know, they don't work in any real way. 149 00:07:22.019 --> 00:07:27.240 The gas tax ship taking off is, you know, laughably poor, but 150 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:30.660 there's an ambition to it and a kind of visual style that I really 151 00:07:30.660 --> 00:07:30.899 like. 152 00:07:31.019 --> 00:07:33.300 You're rolling your eyes hard. 153 00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:34.079 You hate those scenes? 154 00:07:34.139 --> 00:07:35.279 No, no, no. 155 00:07:35.339 --> 00:07:38.519 I'm not as enraptured with this as you. 156 00:07:39.300 --> 00:07:40.259 I wouldn't say enraptured. 157 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:45.480 Well, after that, look, for me, this is the weakest story of the 158 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:49.319 season, but I still like it, and I actually found that I liked a 159 00:07:49.319 --> 00:07:50.819 lot more of it than I actually thought. 160 00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:54.060 I didn't expect to like it as much as I did watching it through 161 00:07:54.060 --> 00:07:54.779 this time. 162 00:07:54.839 --> 00:07:57.959 I guess one of the things I have problems with is the fact that 163 00:07:57.959 --> 00:08:01.500 certainly in the 2nd half of the story, a lot of the relationships 164 00:08:01.500 --> 00:08:02.699 I feel aren't earned. 165 00:08:02.819 --> 00:08:07.079 People go from hating each other, just suddenly within like a 166 00:08:07.079 --> 00:08:09.839 moment, then they're sort of allies and then throwing themselves 167 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:11.879 you know, in front of guns and things. 168 00:08:11.939 --> 00:08:13.920 Do you mean like Carus or Alexa? 169 00:08:13.980 --> 00:08:15.180 But the whole the whole... 170 00:08:15.240 --> 00:08:15.899 Yeah, all of that. 171 00:08:15.959 --> 00:08:18.660 It just sort of goes, boom, boom, boom. like, we've done a draft 172 00:08:18.660 --> 00:08:22.259 scene here of the dialogue of where we want to go, but the 173 00:08:22.259 --> 00:08:24.540 relationships just aren't earned and I just, and I'm just sit 174 00:08:24.540 --> 00:08:25.920 there going, not. 175 00:08:26.279 --> 00:08:27.480 It's just not quite getting there. 176 00:08:27.540 --> 00:08:30.660 I can see the intent, but it's just too quick. 177 00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:32.100 It just doesn't sit. 178 00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:36.360 Yeah, we have the bones of a really excellent story, but it just 179 00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:40.740 comes off being enjoyable and watchable and a 6 or 7 out of 10. 180 00:08:40.919 --> 00:08:45.779 And when you consider that episode 2 and 3 are 3 minutes under, and 181 00:08:45.779 --> 00:08:49.500 then episode 4 is 5 minutes under, you know, there could have been 182 00:08:49.500 --> 00:08:51.899 those character development scenes written. 183 00:08:52.679 --> 00:08:54.960 Massive reprises, too. like they're really long. 184 00:08:55.019 --> 00:09:00.179 One episode is like 15 minutes of new material at one point. 185 00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:02.940 Yeah, it comes in under 20 minutes, one of them? 186 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:06.120 Yeah, episode 4 is 19.5 minutes with titles. 187 00:09:06.179 --> 00:09:11.340 One performance I do want to single out for praise is beside the 188 00:09:11.340 --> 00:09:11.700 obvious. 189 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:14.100 We'll come to her. 190 00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:14.759 We'll come to her. 191 00:09:14.820 --> 00:09:20.340 Is Colette Gleason as Caris, the young female technician who 192 00:09:20.340 --> 00:09:24.179 encounters Megloss and gets to look at Tom Baker's crotch and say 193 00:09:24.179 --> 00:09:24.960 no, that's impossible. 194 00:09:25.019 --> 00:09:26.220 She's great. 195 00:09:26.220 --> 00:09:26.940 Watch it again. 196 00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:28.980 But yeah, she is she is really good. 197 00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:33.240 And the other people on her side, Edward, Edward Underdown, a 198 00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:33.720 Zaster. 199 00:09:33.779 --> 00:09:35.700 Oh, that's terrible. 200 00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:37.320 And thing is, he's a good actor, but he's terrible. 201 00:09:37.379 --> 00:09:40.679 He looks like he's reading his lines off the back of some extras 202 00:09:40.679 --> 00:09:41.460 head or something. 203 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:42.720 He's really cool. 204 00:09:42.779 --> 00:09:45.840 Crawford Logan as Diderich's is basically just there playing, you 205 00:09:45.840 --> 00:09:50.580 know, he's there playing a kind of Jamie role of, you know, I get 206 00:09:50.580 --> 00:09:52.320 to be impulsive and shout out things. 207 00:09:52.379 --> 00:09:55.500 Edward Underdown is given a beautiful line about the doctor. 208 00:09:55.559 --> 00:09:58.139 He sees the strings that bind the universe together, and mends 209 00:09:58.139 --> 00:10:01.259 them when they break, and delivers it like he's saying, I'm going 210 00:10:01.259 --> 00:10:03.840 to catch the number 23 Buster Putney Common. 211 00:10:03.899 --> 00:10:05.580 Yeah, no, shockingly bad. 212 00:10:05.639 --> 00:10:06.480 Who directed this? 213 00:10:06.539 --> 00:10:11.519 This was Terence Dudley, who would go on to write, who would go on 214 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:14.940 to write, canine and company, for to Doomsday. 215 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:17.399 Yep, and Black Orchid. 216 00:10:17.700 --> 00:10:19.500 Thanks, Terrence. 217 00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:23.220 Back to what you're saying about Zestel. 218 00:10:23.279 --> 00:10:25.379 The fact that Zestra is so wooden. 219 00:10:25.440 --> 00:10:29.279 You can't believe him to be this uniting force within his people. 220 00:10:29.399 --> 00:10:30.120 No, no. 221 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:33.720 You can't believe that the doctor has met him before and he is a 222 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:33.960 friend. 223 00:10:34.019 --> 00:10:36.360 I mean, this is one of the things that I think a lot of the 224 00:10:36.360 --> 00:10:41.159 cliches of the 1980s where, but where I feel that the Doctor Who 225 00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:43.980 universe is suddenly getting much smaller is the doctor has been 226 00:10:43.980 --> 00:10:46.379 here before, people are talking about, they know about time 227 00:10:46.379 --> 00:10:46.919 lords. 228 00:10:46.980 --> 00:10:49.980 Suddenly Neglos can invade the Tartars to see what's going on. 229 00:10:50.039 --> 00:10:54.299 There's this encroaching in space that seems to be shrinking to 230 00:10:54.299 --> 00:10:54.539 me. 231 00:10:54.600 --> 00:10:58.379 Once I felt even back in season 17, like the universe was vast. 232 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:02.159 All of a sudden, even with the last story, the doctor wants to go 233 00:11:02.159 --> 00:11:04.440 on a holiday, this is a recurring theme that's going to keep on 234 00:11:04.440 --> 00:11:04.679 going. 235 00:11:04.740 --> 00:11:06.299 Everything just seems to be shrinking. 236 00:11:06.360 --> 00:11:09.840 Do you know, I think that there's a positive side to that, because 237 00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:13.139 I know what you mean, and I don't like that stuff either, where 238 00:11:13.139 --> 00:11:16.019 suddenly everyone knows about time lords, that's terrible or the 239 00:11:16.019 --> 00:11:16.620 doctor's famous. 240 00:11:16.679 --> 00:11:22.320 But we complained, I think, during the kind of Hingecliff era, and 241 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:25.200 to a lesser extent, under Williams, that when you have just the 242 00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:27.960 doctor and one companion, there's no world building. 243 00:11:28.019 --> 00:11:31.740 You know, we just, we don't even, we go on a four-part adventure. 244 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:34.799 We never mention it again and we're off on the next adventure, we 245 00:11:34.799 --> 00:11:36.539 don't remember last week's adventure. 246 00:11:36.600 --> 00:11:41.340 Whereas what we do have here is a kind of world building. 247 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:47.100 Um, and it's something that's introduced in this, where the world 248 00:11:47.100 --> 00:11:50.759 has kind of characteristics, there, things that happen last week 249 00:11:50.759 --> 00:11:52.919 carry on into this week. 250 00:11:52.980 --> 00:11:58.980 So, you know, Romana opens it in her sailor suit repairing the 251 00:11:58.980 --> 00:12:01.980 damage canine had last story. 252 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:05.879 And so it becomes a bit of a continuous story that has a shape 253 00:12:05.879 --> 00:12:07.860 that takes place in an identifiable world. 254 00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:09.960 And I like that a lot. 255 00:12:10.019 --> 00:12:11.100 I like that. 256 00:12:11.159 --> 00:12:14.519 I actually wrote down on my notes here. about the fact that she's 257 00:12:14.519 --> 00:12:15.419 in the same costume. 258 00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:18.059 We're seeing the repercussions of last week. 259 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:18.600 I like that. 260 00:12:18.659 --> 00:12:21.360 It's just that when the doctor suddenly goes to his, he's met 261 00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:23.820 Zester before and all that sort of stuff, and I just think it's a 262 00:12:23.820 --> 00:12:28.919 really, a really weak way of getting into the story without 263 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:31.379 actually landing and discovering people and that sort of thing. 264 00:12:31.500 --> 00:12:35.340 And I think, you know, maybe it's a quicker way to get into things 265 00:12:35.340 --> 00:12:40.080 but it makes it feel like you, if you're a casual viewer, am I 266 00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:41.039 supposed to have seen this before? 267 00:12:41.100 --> 00:12:47.940 And it is a tiresome trope, which will come as some trope of that 268 00:12:47.940 --> 00:12:49.799 this entire era, the JNT era. 269 00:12:49.860 --> 00:12:52.799 But the world building thing, I think, is the flip side of it. 270 00:12:52.860 --> 00:12:54.000 It is associated with it. 271 00:12:54.059 --> 00:13:00.539 We're now in a universe that has CVEs and has a shape and a story 272 00:13:00.539 --> 00:13:01.440 an overall story. 273 00:13:01.500 --> 00:13:04.559 And it's something, it's done okay in season 18. 274 00:13:04.740 --> 00:13:09.059 It's done very poorly for the rest of the show's run until they 275 00:13:09.059 --> 00:13:12.419 abandon it as an idea when Sylvester McCoy comes in, essentially. 276 00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:16.139 And it's the thing that Russell really gets right, I think, is 277 00:13:16.139 --> 00:13:20.159 giving the universe, which could just be utterly boundless, given 278 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:24.419 all of time and space, giving it a shape and a feel and a story, a 279 00:13:24.419 --> 00:13:25.320 continuous story. 280 00:13:25.379 --> 00:13:28.019 Yeah, I do agree with you though, Todd. 281 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:28.980 I think it's a real problem. 282 00:13:29.039 --> 00:13:31.740 When the doctor turns up and says, oh, it's my old friend such and 283 00:13:31.740 --> 00:13:31.980 such. 284 00:13:32.100 --> 00:13:36.480 And that's something that Russell and Stephen Moffatt don't bring 285 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:41.940 back and another series that was really bad for it, which we bring 286 00:13:41.940 --> 00:13:44.759 up on the podcast a lot is the Avengers and particularly the new 287 00:13:44.759 --> 00:13:45.539 Avengers. 288 00:13:45.659 --> 00:13:49.620 And someone actually did a spreadsheet for all the old friends of 289 00:13:49.620 --> 00:13:53.100 John Steed who turn up in the new Avengers and are usually dead by 290 00:13:53.100 --> 00:13:54.299 the time of the 2nd commercial. 291 00:13:54.360 --> 00:13:57.299 And it's a lazy writing trick. 292 00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:01.080 Our hero knows these people, so you should care about them as 293 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:01.259 well. 294 00:14:01.320 --> 00:14:04.080 It's like, no, make us care about the movie, because we haven't 295 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:06.000 needed that for 17 years. 296 00:14:06.059 --> 00:14:10.559 You know, we care about the rebels in the sun makers because of 297 00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:11.220 Cordo. 298 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:14.220 You know, we meet Cordo, and that's just a little 102nd scene 299 00:14:14.220 --> 00:14:18.840 where Leila stops him from jumping off a roof, and that creates 300 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:20.220 the relationship. 301 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:24.659 That being said, you can do, it can have an effect occasionally, to 302 00:14:24.659 --> 00:14:27.899 use the Avengers as an example again, once they flip it on its 303 00:14:27.899 --> 00:14:30.120 head, and it's an old friend of Emma Peel who turns up. 304 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:31.919 And he ends up dead. 305 00:14:31.980 --> 00:14:35.519 But what that means is because she's so sort of Mary Tam like and 306 00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:37.259 unflappable and never shows emotion. 307 00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:40.139 When she finds out her friend is dead, she goes berserk. 308 00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:43.679 She seems a bit unconcerned about that woman in the man eater from 309 00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:44.460 Surrey Green, though. 310 00:14:44.519 --> 00:14:45.960 Yeah, absolutely. 311 00:14:46.019 --> 00:14:46.620 Absolutely. 312 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:50.100 Well, but you know, that's the thing. 313 00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:54.000 It means in this scene in Murdersville, which was the 2nd last 314 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:56.940 episode, Diana Rick recorded. she got to do some real acting 315 00:14:56.940 --> 00:14:58.679 instead of just looking aloof. 316 00:14:58.740 --> 00:15:02.460 And we don't really get that here because Edward Underdown is so 317 00:15:02.460 --> 00:15:02.759 terrible. 318 00:15:02.820 --> 00:15:06.419 Most of his scenes with the doctor, spoiler alert, aren't actually 319 00:15:06.419 --> 00:15:07.080 with the doctor. 320 00:15:07.139 --> 00:15:10.379 So there's no emotional connection there whatsoever. 321 00:15:10.500 --> 00:15:12.480 Where there is an emotional connection. 322 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:14.279 Oh. 323 00:15:14.460 --> 00:15:17.820 So, this is a huge moment. 324 00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:20.879 And it's kind of thrown away, a huge moment in the history of 325 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:26.519 Doctor Who, because we have Jackie returning to play Lexa, the 326 00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:28.500 high priestess of the Dion. 327 00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:30.960 So it's Barbara. 328 00:15:31.019 --> 00:15:36.480 She doesn't have a cardigan, sadly, and she has like a giant long 329 00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:39.779 gray braids and things, and she's back. 330 00:15:39.779 --> 00:15:44.100 And I actually thought the last time I watched it, not the most 331 00:15:44.100 --> 00:15:46.379 recent time when I watched it in preparation for the podcast. 332 00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:49.200 The last time I watched it, was probably the 1st time I'd watched 333 00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:52.379 Megloss after really properly falling in love with Jackie and 334 00:15:52.379 --> 00:15:54.539 having seen it all of her episodes. 335 00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:57.419 And I was really heartbroken by it. 336 00:15:57.480 --> 00:15:59.399 You know, I thought she was thrown away. 337 00:15:59.460 --> 00:16:04.980 But in fact, this time I think that she really lifts what is a 338 00:16:04.980 --> 00:16:05.700 terrible part. 339 00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:07.379 And I would agree with you. 340 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:11.100 Yeah, even as a kid, I watched this story and I didn't realise it 341 00:16:11.100 --> 00:16:11.639 was her. 342 00:16:11.700 --> 00:16:13.080 But I remembered her. 343 00:16:13.139 --> 00:16:14.279 Yeah, right? 344 00:16:14.340 --> 00:16:18.779 And when she was on the screen, I, you know, something that just 345 00:16:18.779 --> 00:16:20.580 flicks through your mind is she's good. 346 00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:22.139 There's something about her. 347 00:16:22.200 --> 00:16:23.340 There's something, right? 348 00:16:23.399 --> 00:16:26.039 And that, even though I thought she was being horrible to the 349 00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:29.639 doctor, forcing him to be lying on a slab for what seems like 5 350 00:16:29.639 --> 00:16:32.940 minutes as they're going to burn through some ropes to kill him at 351 00:16:32.940 --> 00:16:34.919 the end of the episode, which is appalling people. 352 00:16:34.980 --> 00:16:38.759 But she is just great in this. 353 00:16:38.820 --> 00:16:41.519 Like her performance lifts it as she was saying. 354 00:16:41.580 --> 00:16:42.659 It's a really thankless part. 355 00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:46.080 She's sort of an intransigent base commander in a way. 356 00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:50.820 So, like the whole society, the savants and the Dions, which is 357 00:16:50.820 --> 00:16:56.159 just stupid. you know, like a sub Star Trek message story society 358 00:16:56.159 --> 00:16:59.460 that we don't really get that much of in Doctor Who, maybe the 359 00:16:59.460 --> 00:17:00.059 dominators. 360 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:02.519 But Nathan, it's so dumb because awful. 361 00:17:02.580 --> 00:17:06.299 They would have to build the things around the doe decahedron to 362 00:17:06.299 --> 00:17:06.720 begin with. 363 00:17:06.779 --> 00:17:09.299 So they would have been working together and then the society 364 00:17:09.299 --> 00:17:12.000 would have had to generate into these 2 groups, which is just... 365 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:13.019 And what are we learning? 366 00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:15.299 Like, what are we learning about science and religion? 367 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:17.160 Like that religious people are stupid? 368 00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:19.319 Is that what is that our take home message? 369 00:17:19.380 --> 00:17:20.819 Because that's just dumb. 370 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:21.779 That's not interesting. 371 00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:24.839 Like I'm not, you know, religious myself at all. 372 00:17:24.900 --> 00:17:29.339 But, you know, like scientists are very smart and the scientists 373 00:17:29.339 --> 00:17:31.859 are all just sort of horribly smug and rude. 374 00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:34.140 Dietrich's particularly, is that his name? 375 00:17:34.259 --> 00:17:35.099 Yeah, yeah. 376 00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:36.059 He's an idiot. 377 00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:36.779 Yep. 378 00:17:36.779 --> 00:17:40.019 And it, well, even the doctor's a bit sort of snide about it, you 379 00:17:40.019 --> 00:17:40.200 know? 380 00:17:40.259 --> 00:17:44.099 And so, and so the idea is that Lex is the villain, really, in a 381 00:17:44.099 --> 00:17:46.079 way, and she's stupid. 382 00:17:46.140 --> 00:17:48.059 You know, she wants to sacrifice people. 383 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:52.740 But Jackie imbues her with so much intelligence and actually 384 00:17:52.740 --> 00:17:55.920 manages to get her to convey a bit of warmth as well. 385 00:17:55.980 --> 00:17:59.700 There's a great bit where they're arguing about where the 386 00:17:59.700 --> 00:18:01.079 dodecahedron comes from. 387 00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:04.079 And, you know, it's one of my most hated kind of scenes because 388 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:07.259 it's the sort of, as you well know. scene. 389 00:18:08.460 --> 00:18:10.920 Is that what the trope's called? 390 00:18:10.980 --> 00:18:12.599 As you well know. 391 00:18:12.660 --> 00:18:14.640 TV tropes. 392 00:18:14.700 --> 00:18:19.859 But we get that bit where she proclaims it descended from the 393 00:18:19.859 --> 00:18:23.940 heavens, which in any other actor actor or actress's hands would 394 00:18:23.940 --> 00:18:26.339 be awfully hammy, but it's Jackie, so it's wonderful. 395 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:30.420 And Deidrik says, no, not the heavens and she just says, like, she 396 00:18:30.420 --> 00:18:31.259 brings it right back down. 397 00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:32.279 Well, where? 398 00:18:32.339 --> 00:18:34.619 And we cut to Zulfithura. 399 00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:36.900 Leonard, I'm not going to leave you. 400 00:18:37.019 --> 00:18:39.119 Sorry, I need to sign. 401 00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:44.039 I didn't want to derail the Jackie thing, but I wanted to talk 402 00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:47.039 about the scene, that scene with the sacrifice. 403 00:18:47.160 --> 00:18:51.180 And I actually think that scenes of sacrifices now need to be 404 00:18:51.180 --> 00:18:54.180 completely forbidden now and forever. 405 00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:56.039 They're always terrible. 406 00:18:56.099 --> 00:18:58.140 It's always a foregone conclusion. 407 00:18:58.259 --> 00:19:01.859 The last scene with the sacrifice we had was that really terrible 408 00:19:01.859 --> 00:19:05.160 one in underworld where it was not even the doctor, it was just 409 00:19:05.160 --> 00:19:07.740 some guy's dad who we didn't care about. 410 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:09.539 Or the power of Kroll. 411 00:19:09.599 --> 00:19:12.420 Oh, the power of crolls, sacrificing. 412 00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:13.259 They're really terrible. 413 00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:16.319 But the worst thing would be, can you imagine being the guy who 414 00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:18.180 has to clean up after a sacrifice? 415 00:19:18.539 --> 00:19:20.880 Because that rock was very clean. 416 00:19:20.940 --> 00:19:24.539 Yeah, they drop a big rock on you and then someone has to come in 417 00:19:24.539 --> 00:19:27.539 with a mop and bucket afterwards and sort of... 418 00:19:27.539 --> 00:19:28.319 It's interminable. 419 00:19:28.380 --> 00:19:30.660 Like that flame or whatever goes on and on. 420 00:19:30.660 --> 00:19:32.039 It's like, it should be like falling. 421 00:19:32.099 --> 00:19:33.000 It should be falling. 422 00:19:33.059 --> 00:19:35.220 And Tom's kind of bored in that scene. 423 00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:38.279 He does make a little bit of a play at sort of trying to shrink 424 00:19:38.279 --> 00:19:41.460 down as if that will get him out of the way of the giant rock, but 425 00:19:41.460 --> 00:19:47.220 it is terrible and so I'm declaring a complete and eternal 426 00:19:47.220 --> 00:19:49.619 moratorium on scenes in which characters are going to be 427 00:19:49.619 --> 00:19:51.299 sacrificed. never to happen again. 428 00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:53.940 As would Barbara, you know, that's the thing. 429 00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:56.460 Barbara's most famous thing in Doctor Who, isn't it? 430 00:19:56.519 --> 00:19:58.380 She says there will be no sacrifice here. 431 00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:00.359 And then she turns up again, dropping rocks on people. 432 00:20:00.420 --> 00:20:03.480 And then she sacrifices herself literally out of nowhere. 433 00:20:03.539 --> 00:20:04.980 When she screams Romana. 434 00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:07.140 It's like where has that relationship been? 435 00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:08.339 You have not earned that. 436 00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:10.740 We need another scene to see a change. 437 00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:14.460 Yeah, it would have been good as a way of emphasising that she was 438 00:20:14.460 --> 00:20:18.599 a good person, you know, that she's not an evil person, even 439 00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:20.039 though that she's the villain. 440 00:20:20.099 --> 00:20:24.539 And, you know, maybe there's something about religion and self 441 00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:27.240 sacrifice being linked and something could have been said about 442 00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:28.980 religion having some value. 443 00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:33.779 What it needed was a scene like that scene in Horror Fang Rock 444 00:20:33.779 --> 00:20:38.579 where Leila talks to Adelaide, about superstition versus science 445 00:20:38.579 --> 00:20:41.579 and how superstition has value, and, you know, you must trust the 446 00:20:41.579 --> 00:20:44.160 old people of your tribe, but there are better ways in science. 447 00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:48.240 And that, imagine that scene between Lala Ward and Jacqueline 448 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:48.480 Hill. 449 00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:55.980 That makes me angry, just thinking about that, the waste. of her 450 00:20:55.980 --> 00:20:56.519 in this role. 451 00:20:56.579 --> 00:20:57.119 Yeah. 452 00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:01.079 And the death, the death thing is poorly done as well because we 453 00:21:01.079 --> 00:21:04.380 are not actually aware that those people are on the floor, I think 454 00:21:04.380 --> 00:21:04.859 are we? 455 00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:06.359 Like, is there an establishment? 456 00:21:06.420 --> 00:21:10.079 No, no, they like if you saw... says Romana, then you see the guy 457 00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:13.380 then the gunfires, then Jacqueline Hill dies almost out of shot. 458 00:21:13.500 --> 00:21:18.299 Imagine if that scene had opened with us aware that there was a 459 00:21:18.299 --> 00:21:22.140 Gaztak who was still kind of alive and had a loaded gun in his 460 00:21:22.140 --> 00:21:26.819 hand and then the scene plays out with us aware that the death of 461 00:21:26.819 --> 00:21:28.440 one of the characters is a possibility. 462 00:21:28.500 --> 00:21:29.640 It still would have been terrible. 463 00:21:29.700 --> 00:21:32.519 I mean, they just kill her to get her out of the way so they don't 464 00:21:32.519 --> 00:21:33.779 have to deal with her in the plot. 465 00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:38.579 Or imagine if she'd stayed alive and she had to learn those people 466 00:21:38.579 --> 00:21:39.839 had to learn to live together. 467 00:21:39.900 --> 00:21:43.259 Couldn't Vastor have been killed instead? 468 00:21:43.259 --> 00:21:43.440 Yes. 469 00:21:43.859 --> 00:21:45.119 That game's over. 470 00:21:45.180 --> 00:21:46.920 Oh, Romana dead. 471 00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:49.740 And then she stepped and said, well, we have to unite our people. 472 00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:52.079 The 2 women characters could have done that. 473 00:21:52.140 --> 00:21:56.099 In the original script, she doesn't die, but she just doesn't 474 00:21:56.099 --> 00:21:56.640 appear again. 475 00:21:56.700 --> 00:21:59.339 You know, they go back up to the surface, she stays underground. 476 00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:02.700 It was actually Bidmead who said, you know what, this character is 477 00:22:02.700 --> 00:22:06.240 starting to change her mind and she's played by an old companion. 478 00:22:06.299 --> 00:22:08.880 How about we have her sacrifice herself? 479 00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:11.940 So, the sacrificing herself thing isn't necessarily a bad idea. 480 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:13.740 But as you say, Todd, there's no buildup to it. 481 00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:14.819 It doesn't mean anything. 482 00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:20.279 I just feel that Christopher HPM is done work on episode one. to 483 00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:24.119 set you up, but he has not had time to do very much to the next. 484 00:22:24.180 --> 00:22:24.480 Right. 485 00:22:24.539 --> 00:22:28.380 I mean, might have done some, but just, you know, he's had to 486 00:22:28.380 --> 00:22:31.319 concentrate on full circle and Warriors Gate and that sort of 487 00:22:31.319 --> 00:22:31.500 thing. 488 00:22:31.559 --> 00:22:35.759 And also, as we'll discuss, in 2 weeks time, he does 2 rewrites of 489 00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:36.480 state of decay. 490 00:22:36.539 --> 00:22:37.980 But I'll come back to why he does that. 491 00:22:38.039 --> 00:22:39.180 Meglos. 492 00:22:39.240 --> 00:22:40.200 The Megalomaniac. 493 00:22:40.259 --> 00:22:41.700 That's why it's called Megloss. 494 00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:45.420 I do have a problem that it's a cactus type creature. 495 00:22:45.420 --> 00:22:50.460 And no, no, no, it's fun in that sense like that absorbs into 496 00:22:50.460 --> 00:22:53.759 other people, but the whole, this is where I get a bit of problem 497 00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:55.200 with some of Christopher H. 498 00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:58.019 Bidmean stuff is that when I start to think about it and go, okay 499 00:22:58.019 --> 00:23:01.140 so his whole society managed to then create the dojecahedron and 500 00:23:01.140 --> 00:23:04.380 all this technology where they can do time bending things, but 501 00:23:04.380 --> 00:23:06.119 he's still a cactus. 502 00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:11.039 He still needs to have the body of a 1980 human that the pirates 503 00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:13.980 have obviously had to go to earth to get. 504 00:23:14.039 --> 00:23:16.740 So where how long has that taken them to get him? 505 00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:19.259 There's little things like that in the plot where I'm just there 506 00:23:19.259 --> 00:23:22.440 going... have the cactuses build the screens. 507 00:23:22.500 --> 00:23:24.420 It does seem like a difficult thing for them. 508 00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:27.059 And so it's when that logic fails for me. 509 00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:31.079 That's when I have problems with stories. as we've heard in the 510 00:23:31.079 --> 00:23:31.380 past. 511 00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:37.619 But obviously, it does give Tom Baker, in this case, the 512 00:23:37.619 --> 00:23:39.059 opportunity to act. 513 00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:41.759 Yeah, again, take 2 stories in a row. 514 00:23:41.819 --> 00:23:42.359 It a record. 515 00:23:42.420 --> 00:23:47.339 And his performance, the stillness in his performance as Meg Loss 516 00:23:47.339 --> 00:23:50.339 and then when he has to have that all that makeup on, I just think 517 00:23:50.339 --> 00:23:54.480 again, I hate the costume. 518 00:23:54.539 --> 00:23:56.460 I still hate the costume. 519 00:23:56.519 --> 00:23:57.779 I still hate the costume. 520 00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:01.859 I hate Ramana's costume is doing this, but it's given him this 521 00:24:01.859 --> 00:24:02.759 opportunity, you know? 522 00:24:02.819 --> 00:24:04.380 Yeah, it's so different. 523 00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:07.440 And I think that's why I'm struggling with the costume is because 524 00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:10.559 in these 2 stories, Tom is actually acting and it's not what I'm 525 00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:10.859 used to. 526 00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:12.059 And it's good. 527 00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:15.059 Like, he's really still, he's really awkward. 528 00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:20.640 He's kind of cold, but he does still do whimsical doctory things 529 00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:22.380 in a kind of off-putting way. 530 00:24:23.099 --> 00:24:25.980 It's not, you know, evil chatter performance. 531 00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:27.240 It is quite restrained. 532 00:24:27.299 --> 00:24:31.079 Yeah, and that restraint is most obvious in the scene where he 533 00:24:31.079 --> 00:24:34.440 says, I swear allegiance to time. 534 00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:37.619 Of course, I was, we're allegiance. 535 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:40.259 But he and he does that so well. 536 00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:43.680 And there's also that wonderful nonsense line, which is having 537 00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:45.539 lived in the future, I cannot die in the past. 538 00:24:45.539 --> 00:24:51.180 And you get this little look on Caris's face of, no, that doesn't 539 00:24:51.180 --> 00:24:51.480 make sense. 540 00:24:51.539 --> 00:24:55.440 And it's right that it doesn't make sense because this is the clue 541 00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:58.259 that he doesn't actually know what he's talking about, and that's 542 00:24:58.259 --> 00:24:59.880 what makes Cara suspicious of him. 543 00:24:59.940 --> 00:25:02.519 And again, that's not spelled out in the plot, but I think it's 544 00:25:02.519 --> 00:25:03.420 there in the performances. 545 00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:08.279 I also think that Christopher Owen, the human he takes over, does 546 00:25:08.279 --> 00:25:11.460 a very good job because he gets to be the scared human who is 547 00:25:11.460 --> 00:25:12.599 basically after dent. 548 00:25:12.660 --> 00:25:15.180 He gets to be Meglos. 549 00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:16.740 He does the voices. 550 00:25:16.859 --> 00:25:20.880 He does the voice of the cactus and also there's Megalos hymn at 551 00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:24.240 the end of episode one and that great bit where he tries to 552 00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:24.839 escape. 553 00:25:25.079 --> 00:25:27.599 And for Doctor Who. 554 00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:30.480 That looks really good, and it's really well performed by him and 555 00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:30.839 Tom. 556 00:25:31.019 --> 00:25:34.920 It's also interesting at the end of the story, like he's on board 557 00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:37.500 the TARS, and maybe reference that in the very next story against 558 00:25:37.500 --> 00:25:41.700 this whole world building thing there with a bit of continuity 559 00:25:41.700 --> 00:25:42.000 through it. 560 00:25:42.059 --> 00:25:43.920 I don't like Romana's costume in this. 561 00:25:43.980 --> 00:25:46.799 I think it's too thrilly and she gets to run through yet another 562 00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:48.900 fake forest with a band of captains. 563 00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:52.140 That's the 2nd time loop of the story. 564 00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:55.740 She's taking them round and round and round in circles just so 565 00:25:55.740 --> 00:25:57.180 that she can stay out of the plot. 566 00:25:57.240 --> 00:26:00.720 I mean, they don't bring the doctor and Romana into the plot until 567 00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:01.559 episode two. 568 00:26:01.619 --> 00:26:04.559 Romana doesn't get to be in the plot because she's wandering 569 00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:07.500 around in, like, it's not even a B plot. 570 00:26:07.559 --> 00:26:12.539 It is just wasting precious time in the shortest 4 part story in 571 00:26:12.539 --> 00:26:13.500 Doctor Who history. 572 00:26:13.559 --> 00:26:14.940 That's terrible. 573 00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:18.299 There's all sorts of pacing and script problems here. 574 00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:19.680 I think the forest is all right. 575 00:26:19.740 --> 00:26:21.240 I think it's better. 576 00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:25.380 I think the, yeah, I think the plants and that are quite good, but 577 00:26:25.380 --> 00:26:27.359 it's over there in the corner of Studio 3. 578 00:26:27.539 --> 00:26:30.299 That's how Forrest and we just have to keep using that little... 579 00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:33.660 In fact, she has to run really, really slowly away from the gas 580 00:26:33.660 --> 00:26:38.460 tax because she's only got like 3 metres of forest to run in. 581 00:26:38.579 --> 00:26:40.079 It's just running forever. 582 00:26:40.140 --> 00:26:43.380 That shockingly bad cliffhanger to episode two. 583 00:26:43.380 --> 00:26:47.880 And my 2nd moratorium of the episode is no more cliffhangers 584 00:26:47.880 --> 00:26:50.579 please, where the last line is kill him or her. 585 00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:51.839 Yeah, that's right. 586 00:26:51.960 --> 00:26:54.059 She seemed too much kill her. 587 00:26:54.119 --> 00:26:57.420 Yeah, no more cliffhangers where the last line is kill her or kill 588 00:26:57.420 --> 00:26:57.660 him. 589 00:26:57.720 --> 00:27:00.660 You know what's better than you've seen too much. 590 00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:05.099 I'm gonna kill you, is probably, oh, this probably looks really 591 00:27:05.099 --> 00:27:05.400 strange. 592 00:27:05.460 --> 00:27:06.359 Let me explain. 593 00:27:06.420 --> 00:27:08.460 We're setting up a factory. 594 00:27:08.519 --> 00:27:11.819 You know, try to, 1st of all, try to convince the person that 595 00:27:11.819 --> 00:27:14.700 actually looked, what you thought you saw was bodies. 596 00:27:14.759 --> 00:27:15.900 They weren't bodies. 597 00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:18.000 Come and have a look, like Tobias Vaughn does. 598 00:27:18.059 --> 00:27:21.720 Nathan is looking at a picture I have up on my iPad, because the 599 00:27:21.720 --> 00:27:24.779 giant, lush, aggressive vegetation seems to have been co opted for 600 00:27:24.779 --> 00:27:25.440 Pokémon. 601 00:27:25.500 --> 00:27:28.140 This is victory bells. the Pokémon. 602 00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:30.119 It looks exactly like it. 603 00:27:30.180 --> 00:27:32.279 It looks lush and aggressious. 604 00:27:32.819 --> 00:27:36.480 So we'll put up a picture of victory bell on the website. 605 00:27:36.539 --> 00:27:37.680 I look forward to it. 606 00:27:37.980 --> 00:27:41.460 Going back to a positive of this story, and you mentioned it 607 00:27:41.460 --> 00:27:46.079 earlier, is the fact that this is the 1st use in the BBC of scene 608 00:27:46.079 --> 00:27:48.000 sync, emotion control technology. 609 00:27:48.059 --> 00:27:50.759 Tom can move and it can move with you as they're walking out of 610 00:27:50.759 --> 00:27:51.059 the ship. 611 00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:54.359 So again, in this story, despite the failings of the script and 612 00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:55.259 certain actors. 613 00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:58.559 We've got a team that are trying to push technology forward and 614 00:27:58.559 --> 00:27:59.400 use new technologies. 615 00:27:59.460 --> 00:28:00.359 Yeah, yeah. 616 00:28:00.420 --> 00:28:03.480 Because John Nathan Turner was reluctant to make the story because 617 00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:05.160 he said to Christopher and me. 618 00:28:05.220 --> 00:28:07.319 But yeah, you know, it's so typical and there's nothing new about 619 00:28:07.319 --> 00:28:10.559 it and bid me very wisely say, John, we have no scripts. 620 00:28:10.619 --> 00:28:13.859 You know, let's do something kind of ordinary. 621 00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:17.339 And I think that's why they try and push it visually so much. 622 00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:20.220 And, you know, even though it's an in studio forest, it's much 623 00:28:20.220 --> 00:28:21.539 better than Eden, in my opinion. 624 00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:22.740 Oh, yeah, easily. 625 00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:24.240 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 626 00:28:24.299 --> 00:28:26.940 The writers did want it to be on location, but John Nathan 627 00:28:26.940 --> 00:28:27.480 Turner. 628 00:28:27.539 --> 00:28:31.680 And I think with the stories we have coming, very wisely decided 629 00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:34.559 to put it all in the studio, because we have some wonderful 630 00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:37.859 location work coming up in the next 2 stories, and of course, the 631 00:28:37.859 --> 00:28:43.019 final story of the season, because we do have 3 studio bound 632 00:28:43.019 --> 00:28:43.859 stories this season. 633 00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:48.900 But I would argue that they're far more effective than the Studio 634 00:28:48.900 --> 00:28:52.079 Bound stories we had under Graham Williams, and I love Graham 635 00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:52.440 Williams. 636 00:28:52.500 --> 00:28:55.200 But I also think that they're writing to say, well, we need a 637 00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:55.859 studio now. 638 00:28:55.920 --> 00:28:56.519 How can we do it? 639 00:28:56.640 --> 00:28:58.380 And the directors are thinking about how to do it. 640 00:28:58.440 --> 00:29:00.839 And we'll talk about that when we get into those particular 641 00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:01.380 stories. 642 00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:05.640 I do think it's funny at the end of this story. like reminds me a 643 00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:09.119 bit of underworld where that stupid computer gets her bombs back 644 00:29:09.119 --> 00:29:11.220 and then she doesn't know what to do with them. 645 00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:15.539 And so here at the end, Meglos is desperate because everything's 646 00:29:15.539 --> 00:29:17.460 going to explode. 647 00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:21.180 I just laugh every single time that it's all going to go horribly 648 00:29:21.180 --> 00:29:21.359 wrong. 649 00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:25.140 I actually think that the character of Meglos is kind of 650 00:29:25.140 --> 00:29:25.619 interesting. 651 00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:29.339 And I think that this story, it is a bit of a throwback to the 652 00:29:29.339 --> 00:29:32.220 Graham Williams era, but it is sort of thematically a throwback as 653 00:29:32.220 --> 00:29:32.400 well. 654 00:29:32.460 --> 00:29:36.240 I joked earlier that he's called Megloss because he's a 655 00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:39.599 megalomaniac and he's a megalomaniac cactus, which is even more 656 00:29:39.599 --> 00:29:40.319 hilarious. 657 00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:45.720 And the doctor and Meglos both played by TV's Tom Baker, in 658 00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:50.339 episode 4, have a conversation, where Meglos makes it clear that 659 00:29:50.339 --> 00:29:54.180 he wants to rule the universe, and the doctor expresses his 660 00:29:54.180 --> 00:29:57.599 opinion that that's a stupid idea that that's a ridiculous 661 00:29:57.599 --> 00:29:58.200 ambition. 662 00:29:58.259 --> 00:30:00.779 And that's the theme, isn't it? 663 00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:03.779 of the Graham Williams era, that the people who want to rule the 664 00:30:03.779 --> 00:30:09.059 universe are dull and unimaginative and stupid, and it's much 665 00:30:09.059 --> 00:30:13.799 better to explore the universe and to be witty and fun and enjoy 666 00:30:13.799 --> 00:30:14.460 yourself. 667 00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:17.940 I actually think that that, this is kind of the last hurrah of 668 00:30:17.940 --> 00:30:22.799 that theme until, you know, earth shock turns up with its talk of 669 00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:24.119 a well-prepared meal. 670 00:30:24.180 --> 00:30:27.539 And that's one of my favourite things about the Graham Williams 671 00:30:27.539 --> 00:30:33.779 era, I think, is that humour is humour and wit. and fun are the 672 00:30:33.779 --> 00:30:35.579 most valuable thing in the universe. 673 00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:37.319 Jethric after all. 674 00:30:38.220 --> 00:30:41.099 This story is the lowest rated. 675 00:30:41.160 --> 00:30:44.220 Tom Baker, the only one under 5 million, 4.65. 676 00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:47.700 So, you know, if you're the powers that be, we're 2 stories into 677 00:30:47.700 --> 00:30:51.660 this very long season and Time to cancel it, I think. 678 00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:52.140 Yeah. 679 00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:52.859 You know what? 680 00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:55.619 I do think Doctor Who may have ended this year, if not for Barry 681 00:30:55.619 --> 00:31:00.059 Letts, because there was exactly that kind of criticism from BBC 682 00:31:00.059 --> 00:31:03.599 management, and it was actually Barry Letts, who wrote to BBC 683 00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:06.359 management, and said, no, John Nathan Turner's doing a wonderful 684 00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:06.660 job. 685 00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:09.299 Barry, let's essentially said, every day my duties are getting 686 00:31:09.299 --> 00:31:11.220 less and less because he is completely capable. 687 00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:14.279 I understand you put me in as an oversight role because he hadn't 688 00:31:14.279 --> 00:31:14.759 produced before. 689 00:31:14.819 --> 00:31:18.000 Pretty much the problems are the television environment. 690 00:31:18.059 --> 00:31:20.759 We have big competition from elsewhere, but the quality of stories 691 00:31:20.759 --> 00:31:21.299 we have. 692 00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:23.039 We are really, really back on track. 693 00:31:23.099 --> 00:31:27.000 It was around this time that Tom started thinking about leaving. 694 00:31:27.059 --> 00:31:28.980 So that was mentioned as well. 695 00:31:29.099 --> 00:31:32.700 But in later years, Barry Lett said that, you know, kind of by the 696 00:31:32.700 --> 00:31:38.220 time of production of full circle, his only real role was looking 697 00:31:38.220 --> 00:31:41.339 over the final camera scripts and suggesting, oh, no, this would 698 00:31:41.339 --> 00:31:42.839 be a better idea, or that would be a better idea. 699 00:31:42.900 --> 00:31:47.220 John Nathan Dono very quickly took control, as we'll discuss later 700 00:31:47.220 --> 00:31:50.460 on, I think what actually saved the series was Tom Baker's 701 00:31:50.460 --> 00:31:50.880 departure. 702 00:31:50.940 --> 00:31:54.660 I would agree with you But not blaming Tom for that, just the 703 00:31:54.660 --> 00:31:55.559 injection of new blood. 704 00:31:55.619 --> 00:31:57.839 But we still have a long way to go before that. 705 00:31:57.900 --> 00:32:01.680 I'm sure you've probably both heard the story, but I don't know 706 00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:04.859 how much truth there is to it either, given the originator. 707 00:32:04.920 --> 00:32:10.200 But apparently, at the end of The Lodger in season five. 708 00:32:11.819 --> 00:32:13.740 I know where you're going. 709 00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:20.759 Gareth Gareth Roberts has said that one of his original drafts, the 710 00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:25.740 occupier of the ship above the Aikman Road flat was actually 711 00:32:25.740 --> 00:32:26.940 Meglos. 712 00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:29.279 How was that possible Megalos was destroyed? 713 00:32:29.339 --> 00:32:32.220 Well, he met the facted himself on a wavelength of light. 714 00:32:32.279 --> 00:32:33.059 He was indestructible. 715 00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:36.180 Yeah, and Megloth does get back in his little cabinet at the end 716 00:32:36.180 --> 00:32:37.859 before the thing goes down. 717 00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:40.799 So, you know, maybe maybe he Harriet Jones did out of there. 718 00:32:40.859 --> 00:32:45.960 But the script that Gareth Roberts provided to Doctor Who magazine 719 00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:47.160 was essentially saying, oh. 720 00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:52.980 And the doctor says, who? 721 00:32:59.819 --> 00:33:04.019 Um, oh, Alexa rings a bell. 722 00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:06.660 Um, look, that was a long time ago. 723 00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:09.779 You know, I don't really remember, and the whole joke of the 724 00:33:09.779 --> 00:33:12.599 episode would have been that the Megloss has been tracking the 725 00:33:12.599 --> 00:33:14.460 doctor and the doctor has no idea who Megloss is. 726 00:33:14.519 --> 00:33:15.480 He's just forgotten. 727 00:33:15.539 --> 00:33:19.740 I think it would have been very easy for him to slip in that extra 728 00:33:19.740 --> 00:33:23.400 page into the script just so that Russell can have a bit of a 729 00:33:23.400 --> 00:33:24.420 chuckle. 730 00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:25.980 No, I don't. 731 00:33:26.519 --> 00:33:30.900 The thing that makes me wonder, if there's any truth to it is, of 732 00:33:30.900 --> 00:33:33.839 course, we later find out that it's a spaceship of the silence 733 00:33:33.839 --> 00:33:37.319 because when the doctor 1st goes up there, he sees a body of a 734 00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:40.500 silence, but then when Amy says to him later, you know, who was in 735 00:33:40.500 --> 00:33:41.819 the ship, he says there was no one there. 736 00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:45.420 And, you know, you don't realise why that is until a few episodes 737 00:33:45.420 --> 00:33:45.900 later. 738 00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:49.380 But I like to think that maybe at some point that crossed Stephen 739 00:33:49.380 --> 00:33:53.099 Moffatt's desk and Moffatt just said, really, Gareth, really? 740 00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:56.039 But... 741 00:33:56.039 --> 00:33:58.440 It's bizarre. 742 00:33:58.500 --> 00:34:03.059 For someone, for an era, often accused of removing the fun. 743 00:34:03.180 --> 00:34:08.639 This story is remarkably fun, and Brotadak is really funny, and of 744 00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:12.000 course we get that we get the whole thing of his, his name is an 745 00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:13.139 anagram of bad actor. 746 00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:14.519 Oh is it really? 747 00:34:14.579 --> 00:34:15.960 Yeah, he's terrifically good though. 748 00:34:16.019 --> 00:34:16.980 Oh, yeah, yeah. 749 00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:18.780 It was written before he was cast. 750 00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:22.739 And, of course, we have Bill Fraser as General Grugger, who is the 751 00:34:22.739 --> 00:34:25.380 story that he only took the role if he got to kick canine, which 752 00:34:25.380 --> 00:34:26.280 is correct. 753 00:34:26.340 --> 00:34:26.639 Yep. 754 00:34:26.699 --> 00:34:29.099 See, I don't really warmed his performance. 755 00:34:29.219 --> 00:34:32.219 Like, I think it's fine, but... 756 00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:33.659 But I really like Roger Zak. 757 00:34:33.719 --> 00:34:34.079 Yeah. 758 00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:37.920 But something I really like about General Gregory is, he could 759 00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:39.960 have easily been another Torpen. 760 00:34:40.019 --> 00:34:44.639 You know, he could have easily been some kind of stereotype, but 761 00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:49.079 instead, you know, he's not incredibly clever, but he's quite 762 00:34:49.079 --> 00:34:49.619 shrewd. 763 00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:51.420 He's cleverer than Brottadak. 764 00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:53.940 He feels like a character rather than a caricature. 765 00:34:54.059 --> 00:34:57.420 It's funny how similar this is to creature from the pit, isn't 766 00:34:57.420 --> 00:34:57.539 it? 767 00:34:57.599 --> 00:34:58.619 It's really, really similar. 768 00:34:58.679 --> 00:35:03.539 And in some respects, it's better, like visually, it's better 769 00:35:03.539 --> 00:35:06.239 although the creature from the pit had that great film work. 770 00:35:06.300 --> 00:35:06.780 Yes. 771 00:35:06.780 --> 00:35:10.079 But script wise and thematically, we had so much to say about what 772 00:35:10.079 --> 00:35:13.320 creature from the pit said about, you know, capitalism and 773 00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:15.900 scarcity and stuff, it had real ideas in it. 774 00:35:15.900 --> 00:35:19.860 This one had scientists are smart and religious people are stupid 775 00:35:19.860 --> 00:35:24.059 as its central conceit, and that's just, you know, A, hackneyed 776 00:35:24.059 --> 00:35:25.079 and B, horrible. 777 00:35:25.139 --> 00:35:29.340 Yeah, you know, if it had been, I was going to say, if it had been 778 00:35:29.340 --> 00:35:32.699 derived by more experienced writers, but the idea, the idea came 779 00:35:32.699 --> 00:35:35.639 from the writers, it wasn't Christopher Bid me saying, I'd like a 780 00:35:35.639 --> 00:35:37.139 story about science versus a religion, guys. 781 00:35:38.340 --> 00:35:40.619 It's just a matter of, you know, if they'd had more time. 782 00:35:40.619 --> 00:35:44.219 And no one's really to blame for that because Graham Williams 783 00:35:44.219 --> 00:35:47.219 actually left the new production team. 784 00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:52.260 Far more than what Philip Hinchcliffe had left him. 785 00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:55.320 And again, that wasn't Hinchcliffe's fault that the vampire 786 00:35:55.320 --> 00:35:57.480 mutations had to be gotten rid of. 787 00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:00.360 But the thing Graham Williams essentially left them with two 788 00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:01.980 scripts in development. 789 00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:04.440 And, yeah, so this is the first one commissioned by the new 790 00:36:04.440 --> 00:36:05.099 production team. 791 00:36:05.159 --> 00:36:07.199 And, you know, the 1st one commissioned by the new production team 792 00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:08.519 is usually a bit ropey. 793 00:36:08.579 --> 00:36:12.780 You know, we had the Invisible Enemy was the 1st one commissioned 794 00:36:12.780 --> 00:36:14.219 by... 795 00:36:14.820 --> 00:36:19.320 Yeah, it's just, if they had have had an extra week to work on the 796 00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:21.960 scripts, I think this one would be a lot more fondly remembered 797 00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:24.360 but as it is, it's ironing Doctor Who. 798 00:36:24.420 --> 00:36:25.500 It's an ironing movie. 799 00:36:43.559 --> 00:36:47.760 As we rocket away from an explosion on Zolphithura, we're heading 800 00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:52.260 into far deeper danger next week in full circle, until then, you 801 00:36:52.260 --> 00:36:55.199 can find us a flight through entirety.com, flight through entirety 802 00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:58.920 on Facebook, and iTunes and FTE podcast on Twitter, over on Bond 803 00:36:58.920 --> 00:37:03.719 Finger, we have a variety of bond commentaries available, and Bond 804 00:37:03.719 --> 00:37:07.559 Finger cast on Twitter, Bond Finger on Facebook and iTunes. 805 00:37:07.619 --> 00:37:11.340 Until we see you next week, may none of your cactuses try to 806 00:37:11.340 --> 00:37:14.460 possess you and take over Krego, and thank you very much for 807 00:37:14.460 --> 00:37:15.179 listening and good night. 808 00:37:15.239 --> 00:37:15.780 Good night. 809 00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:16.559 See you soon. 810 00:37:22.619 --> 00:37:25.860 That was Flatthrough Entirety with Todd Bealby, Nathan Bottomry 811 00:37:25.860 --> 00:37:26.760 and Brendan Jones. 812 00:37:26.820 --> 00:37:28.800 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. 813 00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:33.599 This episode, by the power of bad acting, was recorded on February 814 00:37:33.599 --> 00:37:34.500 20th. 815 00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:37.019 The next episode will be released on April 17th. 816 00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:42.480 If shrinking a D12 is the ultimate impossibility, you should see 817 00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:43.739 what I can do with a D20. 818 00:37:49.980 --> 00:37:51.420 Can we talk about Megloss? 819 00:37:51.480 --> 00:37:53.099 Well, I haven't finished with Jackie. 820 00:37:53.880 --> 00:37:56.519 Yes, we can talk about Jackie somewhere. 821 00:37:56.579 --> 00:37:59.159 So I want to talk about that.