WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:30:41 1 00:00:30.239 --> 00:00:39.479 Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast forced aboveground by lush, aggressive vegetation. 2 00:00:39.539 --> 00:00:40.320 I'm Brendan. 3 00:00:40.380 --> 00:00:41.100 I'm Nathan. 4 00:00:41.219 --> 00:00:42.960 Thanks, be to Todd. 5 00:00:44.100 --> 00:00:46.920 It's Megalos, ladies and gentlemen. 6 00:00:53.219 --> 00:01:07.200 So, we are in the second story of 1980 season, or, in terms of production, the third, because production order went the leisure hive, state of decay, then Meglos. 7 00:01:07.260 --> 00:01:13.799 And the reason for this was leisure hive, the script was already in development when John Nathan Turner and Christopher Bid being started. 8 00:01:13.859 --> 00:01:21.900 State of decay, of course, was adapted from the Abandoned the Vampire Mutations by Terence Dix, which became horror fang rock. 9 00:01:21.959 --> 00:01:23.159 Which became horror fang rock. 10 00:01:23.219 --> 00:01:24.900 They had these two scripts ready to go. 11 00:01:24.959 --> 00:01:29.040 And then Christopher Bid meet, much like John Nathan Turner wanted to bring new writers in. 12 00:01:29.099 --> 00:01:35.459 And in this case, the writers were John Flanagan and Andrew McCulloch. 13 00:01:35.459 --> 00:01:40.140 Or the Bob Baker and Dave Martin of season 18, as I like to think of them. 14 00:01:40.200 --> 00:01:43.859 I think that's very unfair, because there's only one story going on here. 15 00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:47.760 And despite the fact they have a great, big, shiny object in my story. 16 00:01:47.819 --> 00:01:49.980 Don't get distracted by shiny objects and runoff. 17 00:01:50.099 --> 00:01:54.959 It was a cheap shot, but it's not a good script, though, is it? 18 00:01:55.019 --> 00:01:56.760 They had to run with it. 19 00:01:56.819 --> 00:02:07.019 And I think one of the things watching the documentary is how much fun they had actually putting this together and how well they get on with Christopher Hamilton bit me. 20 00:02:07.079 --> 00:02:07.379 Yeah. 21 00:02:07.379 --> 00:02:12.659 It's very different from the other documentaries for the rest of the season. 22 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:20.580 Yeah, because we'll talk next week about how Terrence Dix reacted to Christopher Pitt means her original rewrite of State of Decay. 23 00:02:20.699 --> 00:02:29.639 This script perhaps sticks out as not as good as the others around it, simply because this of the whole season is the most typical Doctor Who story. 24 00:02:29.819 --> 00:02:34.080 It's doctor and companion land on a planet and get embroiled in local politics. 25 00:02:34.139 --> 00:02:39.180 But I also think that Bidmead has not done as much work on this as the other scripts. 26 00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:45.479 Obviously in episode one, you've got the whole chronic historesis thing, which I think is just golden. 27 00:02:45.539 --> 00:02:49.379 I mean, one of my all time favourite things ever in the history of Doctor Who. 28 00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:50.400 It's really fun, isn't it? 29 00:02:50.460 --> 00:02:53.639 It screams padding though, doesn't it? 30 00:02:53.699 --> 00:03:00.719 Oh, yes, it does, but I remember being in the playground at school and we were reenacting, had to break the chronic history. 31 00:03:00.780 --> 00:03:02.759 I mean is that insane or what? 32 00:03:02.819 --> 00:03:11.639 Everything is strictly scientific this year because of CH bid needs a commitment to having real science in the program. 33 00:03:11.699 --> 00:03:17.219 And so there would never be such a thing as a time loop that you can break out of just through the power of bad acting. 34 00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:29.759 Yeah, Christopher Bidmead's approach to science seems to be this weird sort of science plus metaphysics approach, but I would argue it's a lot more successful than anything in space 1999 year one. 35 00:03:29.819 --> 00:03:34.199 Well, I mean, the science plus metaphysics approach is essentially magic, isn't it? 36 00:03:34.259 --> 00:03:35.819 I mean that's exactly what it is. 37 00:03:35.879 --> 00:03:40.379 They get out of it by aping the thing that they're trying to affect. 38 00:03:40.439 --> 00:03:43.979 You know, just like a voodoo doll looks like, the person that you're trying to harm. 39 00:03:44.039 --> 00:03:46.620 It's sympathetic magic is how they get out of it. 40 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:54.419 But didn't you just say that last week that Christopher said that he wanted to get rid of the magic, but he's actually perpetrating the magic. 41 00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:56.819 Yeah, well, I think he's, as I said last week. 42 00:03:56.879 --> 00:03:58.439 He's a terrible critic of himself. 43 00:03:58.500 --> 00:04:02.340 His account of what he's doing is worse than useless. 44 00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:03.719 He really doesn't know what he's doing. 45 00:04:03.780 --> 00:04:06.419 He doesn't know why he's good, for instance, I think. 46 00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:15.599 He's a bit like the 3rd doctor in the Damons, who spends 5 weeks telling us that magic doesn't exist, but then ends up going, oh, there is magic in the world off. 47 00:04:15.659 --> 00:04:28.860 And it's kind of the thing, oh, saying, you don't believe in magic and everything for a reason, but then just enjoying something simpler, not being able to define why you enjoy eating chocolate or why you enjoy a terrible movie. 48 00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:32.939 Bidmead saying everything he's saying everything needs to be defined. 49 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:39.180 But his evidence is there is so much that's good about this season that is indefinable. 50 00:04:39.300 --> 00:04:47.879 I think there is a very strong kind of magic, a very strong kind of metaphysics all the way through, and it's going to be huge in Warrior's Gate. 51 00:04:47.939 --> 00:04:53.639 But, you know, the way evolution works is nothing like the way it actually works, you know, in the world. 52 00:04:53.699 --> 00:04:58.500 Lots of things are representative or symbolic of other things. 53 00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:01.019 You know, it is, it's magic. 54 00:05:01.079 --> 00:05:13.259 I think here with this script too, the problems with it are much more obvious because I think the production values are as good as the other stories and so I think it falls apart a lot more. 55 00:05:13.319 --> 00:05:16.980 I don't like the whole where the scientists and where to read. 56 00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:17.939 Oh, that's terrible. 57 00:05:18.060 --> 00:05:20.160 I mean, that is just truly shockingly bad. 58 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:22.079 And not even in a Hartnell script. 59 00:05:22.139 --> 00:05:25.139 Would they be as unsubtle as that? 60 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:30.540 And then you've got those horrible blonde wigs and fortunes, but don't even work. 61 00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:31.560 Don't even fit, you know? 62 00:05:31.620 --> 00:05:34.620 The wings are kind of like stuck on them or something. 63 00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:36.360 Like they don't look like hair for a second. 64 00:05:36.420 --> 00:05:37.319 The sort of helmet hair. 65 00:05:37.379 --> 00:05:39.300 Yeah, someone's been watching UFO. 66 00:05:39.360 --> 00:05:39.959 Yeah, yeah. 67 00:05:40.019 --> 00:05:46.319 And then, of course, we've got problems with the space pirates who are, oh, surprise, surprise, look like pirates. 68 00:05:46.379 --> 00:05:48.300 I think they're great. 69 00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:50.759 And I think their costumes are fantastic. 70 00:05:50.819 --> 00:05:52.439 And the 2 leads. 71 00:05:52.560 --> 00:05:53.879 So terrible. 72 00:05:53.939 --> 00:05:55.199 They're really funny. 73 00:05:55.259 --> 00:06:06.899 General Grugger is fantastically funny. and I love Lieutenant Brotadak in his obsession with his jacket being torn and then his desire to get hold of Tom's coat and stuff. 74 00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:08.879 I think they're terrific. 75 00:06:08.939 --> 00:06:12.540 Did you notice one of the space pirates is wearing only gazole glittery road? 76 00:06:12.779 --> 00:06:16.259 Yeah, they're just sort of crappy costumes from stock. 77 00:06:16.319 --> 00:06:17.879 But they look really good. 78 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:20.339 And I think they're really fun. 79 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:24.480 And I think, you know, we do talk about the production values being not quite so high on this one. 80 00:06:24.480 --> 00:06:26.759 And certainly it's not as visually striking. 81 00:06:26.819 --> 00:06:29.639 It's not as well directed as last week, but you know, what is. 82 00:06:29.699 --> 00:06:30.360 Yeah. 83 00:06:30.360 --> 00:06:35.639 So this is a bit flatter, but I think there are some great touches and there's some great ambition. 84 00:06:35.699 --> 00:06:39.480 So in episode one when we 1st see the screens of Zolpha Furore. 85 00:06:39.540 --> 00:06:45.060 We're also treated to the view of the fishing wire that's holding the moon up in the sky. 86 00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:59.399 But and some, you know, terrible CSO fringing and all of that sort of thing, you know, but the camera moves and the CSO, the keyed in model moves at exactly the same rate, that's flawless. 87 00:06:59.459 --> 00:07:01.500 There's real ambition about it. 88 00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:10.199 The model shot, you know, last week's model we pointed out was a bit rudimentary, but, you know, completely rescued by being incredibly beautifully direct.. 89 00:07:10.259 --> 00:07:16.259 This week the model is, you know, has moving parts and, you know, he shot from quite low down. 90 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:18.240 I think it looks pretty good. 91 00:07:18.300 --> 00:07:21.959 You know, the scenes, you know, they don't work in any real way. 92 00:07:22.019 --> 00:07:30.899 The gas tax ship taking off is, you know, laughably poor, but there's an ambition to it and a kind of visual style that I really like. 93 00:07:31.019 --> 00:07:33.300 You're rolling your eyes hard. 94 00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:34.079 You hate those scenes? 95 00:07:34.139 --> 00:07:35.279 No, no, no. 96 00:07:35.339 --> 00:07:38.519 I'm not as enraptured with this as you. 97 00:07:39.300 --> 00:07:40.259 I wouldn't say enraptured. 98 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:50.819 Well, after that, look, for me, this is the weakest story of the season, but I still like it, and I actually found that I liked a lot more of it than I actually thought. 99 00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:54.779 I didn't expect to like it as much as I did watching it through this time. 100 00:07:54.839 --> 00:08:02.699 I guess one of the things I have problems with is the fact that certainly in the 2nd half of the story, a lot of the relationships I feel aren't earned. 101 00:08:02.819 --> 00:08:11.879 People go from hating each other, just suddenly within like a moment, then they're sort of allies and then throwing themselves, you know, in front of guns and things. 102 00:08:11.939 --> 00:08:13.920 Do you mean like Carus or Alexa? 103 00:08:13.980 --> 00:08:15.180 But the whole the whole... 104 00:08:15.240 --> 00:08:15.899 Yeah, all of that. 105 00:08:15.959 --> 00:08:25.920 It just sort of goes, boom, boom, boom. like, we've done a draft scene here of the dialogue of where we want to go, but the relationships just aren't earned and I just, and I'm just sit there going, not. 106 00:08:26.279 --> 00:08:27.480 It's just not quite getting there. 107 00:08:27.540 --> 00:08:30.660 I can see the intent, but it's just too quick. 108 00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:32.100 It just doesn't sit. 109 00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:40.740 Yeah, we have the bones of a really excellent story, but it just comes off being enjoyable and watchable and a 6 or 7 out of 10. 110 00:08:40.919 --> 00:08:51.899 And when you consider that episode 2 and 3 are 3 minutes under, and then episode 4 is 5 minutes under, you know, there could have been those character development scenes written. 111 00:08:52.679 --> 00:08:54.960 Massive reprises, too. like they're really long. 112 00:08:55.019 --> 00:09:00.179 One episode is like 15 minutes of new material at one point. 113 00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:02.940 Yeah, it comes in under 20 minutes, one of them? 114 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:06.120 Yeah, episode 4 is 19.5 minutes with titles. 115 00:09:06.179 --> 00:09:11.700 One performance I do want to single out for praise is beside the obvious. 116 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:14.100 We'll come to her. 117 00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:14.759 We'll come to her. 118 00:09:14.820 --> 00:09:24.960 Is Colette Gleason as Caris, the young female technician who encounters Megloss and gets to look at Tom Baker's crotch and say, no, that's impossible. 119 00:09:25.019 --> 00:09:26.220 She's great. 120 00:09:26.220 --> 00:09:26.940 Watch it again. 121 00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:28.980 But yeah, she is she is really good. 122 00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:33.720 And the other people on her side, Edward, Edward Underdown, a Zaster. 123 00:09:33.779 --> 00:09:35.700 Oh, that's terrible. 124 00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:37.320 And thing is, he's a good actor, but he's terrible. 125 00:09:37.379 --> 00:09:41.460 He looks like he's reading his lines off the back of some extras head or something. 126 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:42.720 He's really cool. 127 00:09:42.779 --> 00:09:52.320 Crawford Logan as Diderich's is basically just there playing, you know, he's there playing a kind of Jamie role of, you know, I get to be impulsive and shout out things. 128 00:09:52.379 --> 00:09:55.500 Edward Underdown is given a beautiful line about the doctor. 129 00:09:55.559 --> 00:10:03.840 He sees the strings that bind the universe together, and mends them when they break, and delivers it like he's saying, I'm going to catch the number 23 Buster Putney Common. 130 00:10:03.899 --> 00:10:05.580 Yeah, no, shockingly bad. 131 00:10:05.639 --> 00:10:06.480 Who directed this? 132 00:10:06.539 --> 00:10:14.940 This was Terence Dudley, who would go on to write, who would go on to write, canine and company, for to Doomsday. 133 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:17.399 Yep, and Black Orchid. 134 00:10:17.700 --> 00:10:19.500 Thanks, Terrence. 135 00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:23.220 Back to what you're saying about Zestel. 136 00:10:23.279 --> 00:10:25.379 The fact that Zestra is so wooden. 137 00:10:25.440 --> 00:10:29.279 You can't believe him to be this uniting force within his people. 138 00:10:29.399 --> 00:10:30.120 No, no. 139 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:33.960 You can't believe that the doctor has met him before and he is a friend. 140 00:10:34.019 --> 00:10:46.919 I mean, this is one of the things that I think a lot of the cliches of the 1980s where, but where I feel that the Doctor Who universe is suddenly getting much smaller is the doctor has been here before, people are talking about, they know about time lords. 141 00:10:46.980 --> 00:10:49.980 Suddenly Neglos can invade the Tartars to see what's going on. 142 00:10:50.039 --> 00:10:54.539 There's this encroaching in space that seems to be shrinking to me. 143 00:10:54.600 --> 00:10:58.379 Once I felt even back in season 17, like the universe was vast. 144 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:04.679 All of a sudden, even with the last story, the doctor wants to go on a holiday, this is a recurring theme that's going to keep on going. 145 00:11:04.740 --> 00:11:06.299 Everything just seems to be shrinking. 146 00:11:06.360 --> 00:11:16.620 Do you know, I think that there's a positive side to that, because I know what you mean, and I don't like that stuff either, where suddenly everyone knows about time lords, that's terrible or the doctor's famous. 147 00:11:16.679 --> 00:11:27.960 But we complained, I think, during the kind of Hingecliff era, and to a lesser extent, under Williams, that when you have just the doctor and one companion, there's no world building. 148 00:11:28.019 --> 00:11:31.740 You know, we just, we don't even, we go on a four-part adventure. 149 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:36.539 We never mention it again and we're off on the next adventure, we don't remember last week's adventure. 150 00:11:36.600 --> 00:11:41.340 Whereas what we do have here is a kind of world building. 151 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:52.919 Um, and it's something that's introduced in this, where the world has kind of characteristics, there, things that happen last week carry on into this week. 152 00:11:52.980 --> 00:12:01.980 So, you know, Romana opens it in her sailor suit repairing the damage canine had last story. 153 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:07.860 And so it becomes a bit of a continuous story that has a shape that takes place in an identifiable world. 154 00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:09.960 And I like that a lot. 155 00:12:10.019 --> 00:12:11.100 I like that. 156 00:12:11.159 --> 00:12:15.419 I actually wrote down on my notes here. about the fact that she's in the same costume. 157 00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:18.059 We're seeing the repercussions of last week. 158 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:18.600 I like that. 159 00:12:18.659 --> 00:12:31.379 It's just that when the doctor suddenly goes to his, he's met Zester before and all that sort of stuff, and I just think it's a really, a really weak way of getting into the story without actually landing and discovering people and that sort of thing. 160 00:12:31.500 --> 00:12:41.039 And I think, you know, maybe it's a quicker way to get into things, but it makes it feel like you, if you're a casual viewer, am I supposed to have seen this before? 161 00:12:41.100 --> 00:12:49.799 And it is a tiresome trope, which will come as some trope of that, this entire era, the JNT era. 162 00:12:49.860 --> 00:12:52.799 But the world building thing, I think, is the flip side of it. 163 00:12:52.860 --> 00:12:54.000 It is associated with it. 164 00:12:54.059 --> 00:13:01.440 We're now in a universe that has CVEs and has a shape and a story, an overall story. 165 00:13:01.500 --> 00:13:04.559 And it's something, it's done okay in season 18. 166 00:13:04.740 --> 00:13:12.419 It's done very poorly for the rest of the show's run until they abandon it as an idea when Sylvester McCoy comes in, essentially. 167 00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:25.320 And it's the thing that Russell really gets right, I think, is giving the universe, which could just be utterly boundless, given all of time and space, giving it a shape and a feel and a story, a continuous story. 168 00:13:25.379 --> 00:13:28.019 Yeah, I do agree with you though, Todd. 169 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:28.980 I think it's a real problem. 170 00:13:29.039 --> 00:13:31.980 When the doctor turns up and says, oh, it's my old friend such and such. 171 00:13:32.100 --> 00:13:45.539 And that's something that Russell and Stephen Moffatt don't bring back and another series that was really bad for it, which we bring up on the podcast a lot is the Avengers and particularly the new Avengers. 172 00:13:45.659 --> 00:13:54.299 And someone actually did a spreadsheet for all the old friends of John Steed who turn up in the new Avengers and are usually dead by the time of the 2nd commercial. 173 00:13:54.360 --> 00:13:57.299 And it's a lazy writing trick. 174 00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:01.259 Our hero knows these people, so you should care about them as well. 175 00:14:01.320 --> 00:14:06.000 It's like, no, make us care about the movie, because we haven't needed that for 17 years. 176 00:14:06.059 --> 00:14:11.220 You know, we care about the rebels in the sun makers because of Cordo. 177 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:20.220 You know, we meet Cordo, and that's just a little 102nd scene where Leila stops him from jumping off a roof, and that creates the relationship. 178 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:30.120 That being said, you can do, it can have an effect occasionally, to use the Avengers as an example again, once they flip it on its head, and it's an old friend of Emma Peel who turns up. 179 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:31.919 And he ends up dead. 180 00:14:31.980 --> 00:14:37.259 But what that means is because she's so sort of Mary Tam like and unflappable and never shows emotion. 181 00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:40.139 When she finds out her friend is dead, she goes berserk. 182 00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:44.460 She seems a bit unconcerned about that woman in the man eater from Surrey Green, though. 183 00:14:44.519 --> 00:14:45.960 Yeah, absolutely. 184 00:14:46.019 --> 00:14:46.620 Absolutely. 185 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:50.100 Well, but you know, that's the thing. 186 00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:58.679 It means in this scene in Murdersville, which was the 2nd last episode, Diana Rick recorded. she got to do some real acting instead of just looking aloof. 187 00:14:58.740 --> 00:15:02.759 And we don't really get that here because Edward Underdown is so terrible. 188 00:15:02.820 --> 00:15:07.080 Most of his scenes with the doctor, spoiler alert, aren't actually with the doctor. 189 00:15:07.139 --> 00:15:10.379 So there's no emotional connection there whatsoever. 190 00:15:10.500 --> 00:15:12.480 Where there is an emotional connection. 191 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:14.279 Oh. 192 00:15:14.460 --> 00:15:17.820 So, this is a huge moment. 193 00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:28.500 And it's kind of thrown away, a huge moment in the history of Doctor Who, because we have Jackie returning to play Lexa, the high priestess of the Dion. 194 00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:30.960 So it's Barbara. 195 00:15:31.019 --> 00:15:39.779 She doesn't have a cardigan, sadly, and she has like a giant long gray braids and things, and she's back. 196 00:15:39.779 --> 00:15:46.379 And I actually thought the last time I watched it, not the most recent time when I watched it in preparation for the podcast. 197 00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:54.539 The last time I watched it, was probably the 1st time I'd watched Megloss after really properly falling in love with Jackie and having seen it all of her episodes. 198 00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:57.419 And I was really heartbroken by it. 199 00:15:57.480 --> 00:15:59.399 You know, I thought she was thrown away. 200 00:15:59.460 --> 00:16:05.700 But in fact, this time I think that she really lifts what is a terrible part. 201 00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:07.379 And I would agree with you. 202 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:11.639 Yeah, even as a kid, I watched this story and I didn't realise it was her. 203 00:16:11.700 --> 00:16:13.080 But I remembered her. 204 00:16:13.139 --> 00:16:14.279 Yeah, right? 205 00:16:14.340 --> 00:16:20.580 And when she was on the screen, I, you know, something that just flicks through your mind is she's good. 206 00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:22.139 There's something about her. 207 00:16:22.200 --> 00:16:23.340 There's something, right? 208 00:16:23.399 --> 00:16:34.919 And that, even though I thought she was being horrible to the doctor, forcing him to be lying on a slab for what seems like 5 minutes as they're going to burn through some ropes to kill him at the end of the episode, which is appalling people. 209 00:16:34.980 --> 00:16:38.759 But she is just great in this. 210 00:16:38.820 --> 00:16:41.519 Like her performance lifts it as she was saying. 211 00:16:41.580 --> 00:16:42.659 It's a really thankless part. 212 00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:46.080 She's sort of an intransigent base commander in a way. 213 00:16:46.200 --> 00:17:00.059 So, like the whole society, the savants and the Dions, which is just stupid. you know, like a sub Star Trek message story society that we don't really get that much of in Doctor Who, maybe the dominators. 214 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:02.519 But Nathan, it's so dumb because awful. 215 00:17:02.580 --> 00:17:06.720 They would have to build the things around the doe decahedron to begin with. 216 00:17:06.779 --> 00:17:12.000 So they would have been working together and then the society would have had to generate into these 2 groups, which is just... 217 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:13.019 And what are we learning? 218 00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:15.299 Like, what are we learning about science and religion? 219 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:17.160 Like that religious people are stupid? 220 00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:19.319 Is that what is that our take home message? 221 00:17:19.380 --> 00:17:20.819 Because that's just dumb. 222 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:21.779 That's not interesting. 223 00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:24.839 Like I'm not, you know, religious myself at all. 224 00:17:24.900 --> 00:17:31.859 But, you know, like scientists are very smart and the scientists are all just sort of horribly smug and rude. 225 00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:34.140 Dietrich's particularly, is that his name? 226 00:17:34.259 --> 00:17:35.099 Yeah, yeah. 227 00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:36.059 He's an idiot. 228 00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:36.779 Yep. 229 00:17:36.779 --> 00:17:40.200 And it, well, even the doctor's a bit sort of snide about it, you know? 230 00:17:40.259 --> 00:17:46.079 And so, and so the idea is that Lex is the villain, really, in a way, and she's stupid. 231 00:17:46.140 --> 00:17:48.059 You know, she wants to sacrifice people. 232 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:55.920 But Jackie imbues her with so much intelligence and actually manages to get her to convey a bit of warmth as well. 233 00:17:55.980 --> 00:18:01.079 There's a great bit where they're arguing about where the dodecahedron comes from. 234 00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:07.259 And, you know, it's one of my most hated kind of scenes because it's the sort of, as you well know. scene. 235 00:18:08.460 --> 00:18:10.920 Is that what the trope's called? 236 00:18:10.980 --> 00:18:12.599 As you well know. 237 00:18:12.660 --> 00:18:14.640 TV tropes. 238 00:18:14.700 --> 00:18:26.339 But we get that bit where she proclaims it descended from the heavens, which in any other actor actor or actress's hands would be awfully hammy, but it's Jackie, so it's wonderful. 239 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:31.259 And Deidrik says, no, not the heavens and she just says, like, she brings it right back down. 240 00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:32.279 Well, where? 241 00:18:32.339 --> 00:18:34.619 And we cut to Zulfithura. 242 00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:36.900 Leonard, I'm not going to leave you. 243 00:18:37.019 --> 00:18:39.119 Sorry, I need to sign. 244 00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:47.039 I didn't want to derail the Jackie thing, but I wanted to talk about the scene, that scene with the sacrifice. 245 00:18:47.160 --> 00:18:54.180 And I actually think that scenes of sacrifices now need to be completely forbidden now and forever. 246 00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:56.039 They're always terrible. 247 00:18:56.099 --> 00:18:58.140 It's always a foregone conclusion. 248 00:18:58.259 --> 00:19:07.740 The last scene with the sacrifice we had was that really terrible one in underworld where it was not even the doctor, it was just some guy's dad who we didn't care about. 249 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:09.539 Or the power of Kroll. 250 00:19:09.599 --> 00:19:12.420 Oh, the power of crolls, sacrificing. 251 00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:13.259 They're really terrible. 252 00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:18.180 But the worst thing would be, can you imagine being the guy who has to clean up after a sacrifice? 253 00:19:18.539 --> 00:19:20.880 Because that rock was very clean. 254 00:19:20.940 --> 00:19:27.539 Yeah, they drop a big rock on you and then someone has to come in with a mop and bucket afterwards and sort of... 255 00:19:27.539 --> 00:19:28.319 It's interminable. 256 00:19:28.380 --> 00:19:30.660 Like that flame or whatever goes on and on. 257 00:19:30.660 --> 00:19:32.039 It's like, it should be like falling. 258 00:19:32.099 --> 00:19:33.000 It should be falling. 259 00:19:33.059 --> 00:19:35.220 And Tom's kind of bored in that scene. 260 00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:51.299 He does make a little bit of a play at sort of trying to shrink down as if that will get him out of the way of the giant rock, but it is terrible and so I'm declaring a complete and eternal moratorium on scenes in which characters are going to be sacrificed. never to happen again. 261 00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:53.940 As would Barbara, you know, that's the thing. 262 00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:56.460 Barbara's most famous thing in Doctor Who, isn't it? 263 00:19:56.519 --> 00:19:58.380 She says there will be no sacrifice here. 264 00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:00.359 And then she turns up again, dropping rocks on people. 265 00:20:00.420 --> 00:20:03.480 And then she sacrifices herself literally out of nowhere. 266 00:20:03.539 --> 00:20:04.980 When she screams Romana. 267 00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:07.140 It's like where has that relationship been? 268 00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:08.339 You have not earned that. 269 00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:10.740 We need another scene to see a change. 270 00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:20.039 Yeah, it would have been good as a way of emphasising that she was a good person, you know, that she's not an evil person, even though that she's the villain. 271 00:20:20.099 --> 00:20:28.980 And, you know, maybe there's something about religion and self-sacrifice being linked and something could have been said about religion having some value. 272 00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:44.160 What it needed was a scene like that scene in Horror Fang Rock, where Leila talks to Adelaide, about superstition versus science, and how superstition has value, and, you know, you must trust the old people of your tribe, but there are better ways in science. 273 00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:48.480 And that, imagine that scene between Lala Ward and Jacqueline Hill. 274 00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:56.519 That makes me angry, just thinking about that, the waste. of her in this role. 275 00:20:56.579 --> 00:20:57.119 Yeah. 276 00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:04.859 And the death, the death thing is poorly done as well because we are not actually aware that those people are on the floor, I think, are we? 277 00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:06.359 Like, is there an establishment? 278 00:21:06.420 --> 00:21:13.380 No, no, they like if you saw... says Romana, then you see the guy, then the gunfires, then Jacqueline Hill dies almost out of shot. 279 00:21:13.500 --> 00:21:28.440 Imagine if that scene had opened with us aware that there was a Gaztak who was still kind of alive and had a loaded gun in his hand and then the scene plays out with us aware that the death of one of the characters is a possibility. 280 00:21:28.500 --> 00:21:29.640 It still would have been terrible. 281 00:21:29.700 --> 00:21:33.779 I mean, they just kill her to get her out of the way so they don't have to deal with her in the plot. 282 00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:39.839 Or imagine if she'd stayed alive and she had to learn those people had to learn to live together. 283 00:21:39.900 --> 00:21:43.259 Couldn't Vastor have been killed instead? 284 00:21:43.259 --> 00:21:43.440 Yes. 285 00:21:43.859 --> 00:21:45.119 That game's over. 286 00:21:45.180 --> 00:21:46.920 Oh, Romana dead. 287 00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:49.740 And then she stepped and said, well, we have to unite our people. 288 00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:52.079 The 2 women characters could have done that. 289 00:21:52.140 --> 00:21:56.640 In the original script, she doesn't die, but she just doesn't appear again. 290 00:21:56.700 --> 00:21:59.339 You know, they go back up to the surface, she stays underground. 291 00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:06.240 It was actually Bidmead who said, you know what, this character is starting to change her mind and she's played by an old companion. 292 00:22:06.299 --> 00:22:08.880 How about we have her sacrifice herself? 293 00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:11.940 So, the sacrificing herself thing isn't necessarily a bad idea. 294 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:13.740 But as you say, Todd, there's no buildup to it. 295 00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:14.819 It doesn't mean anything. 296 00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:24.119 I just feel that Christopher HPM is done work on episode one. to set you up, but he has not had time to do very much to the next. 297 00:22:24.180 --> 00:22:24.480 Right. 298 00:22:24.539 --> 00:22:31.500 I mean, might have done some, but just, you know, he's had to concentrate on full circle and Warriors Gate and that sort of thing. 299 00:22:31.559 --> 00:22:36.480 And also, as we'll discuss, in 2 weeks time, he does 2 rewrites of state of decay. 300 00:22:36.539 --> 00:22:37.980 But I'll come back to why he does that. 301 00:22:38.039 --> 00:22:39.180 Meglos. 302 00:22:39.240 --> 00:22:40.200 The Megalomaniac. 303 00:22:40.259 --> 00:22:41.700 That's why it's called Megloss. 304 00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:45.420 I do have a problem that it's a cactus type creature. 305 00:22:45.420 --> 00:22:55.200 And no, no, no, it's fun in that sense like that absorbs into other people, but the whole, this is where I get a bit of problem with some of Christopher H. 306 00:22:55.200 --> 00:23:06.119 Bidmean stuff is that when I start to think about it and go, okay, so his whole society managed to then create the dojecahedron and all this technology where they can do time bending things, but he's still a cactus. 307 00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:13.980 He still needs to have the body of a 1980 human that the pirates have obviously had to go to earth to get. 308 00:23:14.039 --> 00:23:16.740 So where how long has that taken them to get him? 309 00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:22.440 There's little things like that in the plot where I'm just there going... have the cactuses build the screens. 310 00:23:22.500 --> 00:23:24.420 It does seem like a difficult thing for them. 311 00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:27.059 And so it's when that logic fails for me. 312 00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:31.380 That's when I have problems with stories. as we've heard in the past. 313 00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:39.059 But obviously, it does give Tom Baker, in this case, the opportunity to act. 314 00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:41.759 Yeah, again, take 2 stories in a row. 315 00:23:41.819 --> 00:23:42.359 It a record. 316 00:23:42.420 --> 00:23:54.480 And his performance, the stillness in his performance as Meg Loss, and then when he has to have that all that makeup on, I just think, again, I hate the costume. 317 00:23:54.539 --> 00:23:56.460 I still hate the costume. 318 00:23:56.519 --> 00:23:57.779 I still hate the costume. 319 00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:02.759 I hate Ramana's costume is doing this, but it's given him this opportunity, you know? 320 00:24:02.819 --> 00:24:04.380 Yeah, it's so different. 321 00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:10.859 And I think that's why I'm struggling with the costume is because in these 2 stories, Tom is actually acting and it's not what I'm used to. 322 00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:12.059 And it's good. 323 00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:15.059 Like, he's really still, he's really awkward. 324 00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:22.380 He's kind of cold, but he does still do whimsical doctory things in a kind of off-putting way. 325 00:24:23.099 --> 00:24:25.980 It's not, you know, evil chatter performance. 326 00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:27.240 It is quite restrained. 327 00:24:27.299 --> 00:24:34.440 Yeah, and that restraint is most obvious in the scene where he says, I swear allegiance to time. 328 00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:37.619 Of course, I was, we're allegiance. 329 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:40.259 But he and he does that so well. 330 00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:45.539 And there's also that wonderful nonsense line, which is having lived in the future, I cannot die in the past. 331 00:24:45.539 --> 00:24:51.480 And you get this little look on Caris's face of, no, that doesn't make sense. 332 00:24:51.539 --> 00:24:59.880 And it's right that it doesn't make sense because this is the clue that he doesn't actually know what he's talking about, and that's what makes Cara suspicious of him. 333 00:24:59.940 --> 00:25:03.420 And again, that's not spelled out in the plot, but I think it's there in the performances. 334 00:25:03.480 --> 00:25:12.599 I also think that Christopher Owen, the human he takes over, does a very good job because he gets to be the scared human who is basically after dent. 335 00:25:12.660 --> 00:25:15.180 He gets to be Meglos. 336 00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:16.740 He does the voices. 337 00:25:16.859 --> 00:25:24.839 He does the voice of the cactus and also there's Megalos hymn at the end of episode one and that great bit where he tries to escape. 338 00:25:25.079 --> 00:25:27.599 And for Doctor Who. 339 00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:30.839 That looks really good, and it's really well performed by him and Tom. 340 00:25:31.019 --> 00:25:42.000 It's also interesting at the end of the story, like he's on board the TARS, and maybe reference that in the very next story against this whole world building thing there with a bit of continuity through it. 341 00:25:42.059 --> 00:25:43.920 I don't like Romana's costume in this. 342 00:25:43.980 --> 00:25:48.900 I think it's too thrilly and she gets to run through yet another fake forest with a band of captains. 343 00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:52.140 That's the 2nd time loop of the story. 344 00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:57.180 She's taking them round and round and round in circles just so that she can stay out of the plot. 345 00:25:57.240 --> 00:26:01.559 I mean, they don't bring the doctor and Romana into the plot until episode two. 346 00:26:01.619 --> 00:26:07.500 Romana doesn't get to be in the plot because she's wandering around in, like, it's not even a B plot. 347 00:26:07.559 --> 00:26:13.500 It is just wasting precious time in the shortest 4 part story in Doctor Who history. 348 00:26:13.559 --> 00:26:14.940 That's terrible. 349 00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:18.299 There's all sorts of pacing and script problems here. 350 00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:19.680 I think the forest is all right. 351 00:26:19.740 --> 00:26:21.240 I think it's better. 352 00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:27.359 I think the, yeah, I think the plants and that are quite good, but it's over there in the corner of Studio 3. 353 00:26:27.539 --> 00:26:30.299 That's how Forrest and we just have to keep using that little... 354 00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:38.460 In fact, she has to run really, really slowly away from the gas tax because she's only got like 3 metres of forest to run in. 355 00:26:38.579 --> 00:26:40.079 It's just running forever. 356 00:26:40.140 --> 00:26:43.380 That shockingly bad cliffhanger to episode two. 357 00:26:43.380 --> 00:26:50.579 And my 2nd moratorium of the episode is no more cliffhangers, please, where the last line is kill him or her. 358 00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:51.839 Yeah, that's right. 359 00:26:51.960 --> 00:26:54.059 She seemed too much kill her. 360 00:26:54.119 --> 00:26:57.660 Yeah, no more cliffhangers where the last line is kill her or kill him. 361 00:26:57.720 --> 00:27:00.660 You know what's better than you've seen too much. 362 00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:05.400 I'm gonna kill you, is probably, oh, this probably looks really strange. 363 00:27:05.460 --> 00:27:06.359 Let me explain. 364 00:27:06.420 --> 00:27:08.460 We're setting up a factory. 365 00:27:08.519 --> 00:27:14.700 You know, try to, 1st of all, try to convince the person that actually looked, what you thought you saw was bodies. 366 00:27:14.759 --> 00:27:15.900 They weren't bodies. 367 00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:18.000 Come and have a look, like Tobias Vaughn does. 368 00:27:18.059 --> 00:27:25.440 Nathan is looking at a picture I have up on my iPad, because the giant, lush, aggressive vegetation seems to have been co opted for Pokémon. 369 00:27:25.500 --> 00:27:28.140 This is victory bells. the Pokémon. 370 00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:30.119 It looks exactly like it. 371 00:27:30.180 --> 00:27:32.279 It looks lush and aggressious. 372 00:27:32.819 --> 00:27:36.480 So we'll put up a picture of victory bell on the website. 373 00:27:36.539 --> 00:27:37.680 I look forward to it. 374 00:27:37.980 --> 00:27:48.000 Going back to a positive of this story, and you mentioned it earlier, is the fact that this is the 1st use in the BBC of scene sync, emotion control technology. 375 00:27:48.059 --> 00:27:51.059 Tom can move and it can move with you as they're walking out of the ship. 376 00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:55.259 So again, in this story, despite the failings of the script and certain actors. 377 00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:59.400 We've got a team that are trying to push technology forward and use new technologies. 378 00:27:59.460 --> 00:28:00.359 Yeah, yeah. 379 00:28:00.420 --> 00:28:05.160 Because John Nathan Turner was reluctant to make the story because he said to Christopher and me. 380 00:28:05.220 --> 00:28:10.559 But yeah, you know, it's so typical and there's nothing new about it and bid me very wisely say, John, we have no scripts. 381 00:28:10.619 --> 00:28:13.859 You know, let's do something kind of ordinary. 382 00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:17.339 And I think that's why they try and push it visually so much. 383 00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:21.539 And, you know, even though it's an in studio forest, it's much better than Eden, in my opinion. 384 00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:22.740 Oh, yeah, easily. 385 00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:24.240 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 386 00:28:24.299 --> 00:28:27.480 The writers did want it to be on location, but John Nathan Turner. 387 00:28:27.539 --> 00:28:43.859 And I think with the stories we have coming, very wisely decided to put it all in the studio, because we have some wonderful location work coming up in the next 2 stories, and of course, the final story of the season, because we do have 3 studio bound stories this season. 388 00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:52.440 But I would argue that they're far more effective than the Studio Bound stories we had under Graham Williams, and I love Graham Williams. 389 00:28:52.500 --> 00:28:55.859 But I also think that they're writing to say, well, we need a studio now. 390 00:28:55.920 --> 00:28:56.519 How can we do it? 391 00:28:56.640 --> 00:28:58.380 And the directors are thinking about how to do it. 392 00:28:58.440 --> 00:29:01.380 And we'll talk about that when we get into those particular stories. 393 00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:11.220 I do think it's funny at the end of this story. like reminds me a bit of underworld where that stupid computer gets her bombs back and then she doesn't know what to do with them. 394 00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:17.460 And so here at the end, Meglos is desperate because everything's going to explode. 395 00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:21.359 I just laugh every single time that it's all going to go horribly wrong. 396 00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:25.619 I actually think that the character of Meglos is kind of interesting. 397 00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:32.400 And I think that this story, it is a bit of a throwback to the Graham Williams era, but it is sort of thematically a throwback as well. 398 00:29:32.460 --> 00:29:40.319 I joked earlier that he's called Megloss because he's a megalomaniac and he's a megalomaniac cactus, which is even more hilarious. 399 00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:58.200 And the doctor and Meglos both played by TV's Tom Baker, in episode 4, have a conversation, where Meglos makes it clear that he wants to rule the universe, and the doctor expresses his opinion that that's a stupid idea that that's a ridiculous ambition. 400 00:29:58.259 --> 00:30:00.779 And that's the theme, isn't it? 401 00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:14.460 of the Graham Williams era, that the people who want to rule the universe are dull and unimaginative and stupid, and it's much better to explore the universe and to be witty and fun and enjoy yourself. 402 00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:24.119 I actually think that that, this is kind of the last hurrah of that theme until, you know, earth shock turns up with its talk of a well-prepared meal. 403 00:30:24.180 --> 00:30:35.579 And that's one of my favourite things about the Graham Williams era, I think, is that humour is humour and wit. and fun are the most valuable thing in the universe. 404 00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:37.319 Jethric after all. 405 00:30:38.220 --> 00:30:41.099 This story is the lowest rated. 406 00:30:41.160 --> 00:30:44.220 Tom Baker, the only one under 5 million, 4.65. 407 00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:51.660 So, you know, if you're the powers that be, we're 2 stories into this very long season and Time to cancel it, I think. 408 00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:52.140 Yeah. 409 00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:52.859 You know what? 410 00:30:52.920 --> 00:31:06.660 I do think Doctor Who may have ended this year, if not for Barry Letts, because there was exactly that kind of criticism from BBC management, and it was actually Barry Letts, who wrote to BBC management, and said, no, John Nathan Turner's doing a wonderful job. 411 00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:11.220 Barry, let's essentially said, every day my duties are getting less and less because he is completely capable. 412 00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:14.759 I understand you put me in as an oversight role because he hadn't produced before. 413 00:31:14.819 --> 00:31:18.000 Pretty much the problems are the television environment. 414 00:31:18.059 --> 00:31:21.299 We have big competition from elsewhere, but the quality of stories we have. 415 00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:23.039 We are really, really back on track. 416 00:31:23.099 --> 00:31:27.000 It was around this time that Tom started thinking about leaving. 417 00:31:27.059 --> 00:31:28.980 So that was mentioned as well. 418 00:31:29.099 --> 00:31:42.839 But in later years, Barry Lett said that, you know, kind of by the time of production of full circle, his only real role was looking over the final camera scripts and suggesting, oh, no, this would be a better idea, or that would be a better idea. 419 00:31:42.900 --> 00:31:50.880 John Nathan Dono very quickly took control, as we'll discuss later on, I think what actually saved the series was Tom Baker's departure. 420 00:31:50.940 --> 00:31:55.559 I would agree with you But not blaming Tom for that, just the injection of new blood. 421 00:31:55.619 --> 00:31:57.839 But we still have a long way to go before that. 422 00:31:57.900 --> 00:32:04.859 I'm sure you've probably both heard the story, but I don't know how much truth there is to it either, given the originator. 423 00:32:04.920 --> 00:32:10.200 But apparently, at the end of The Lodger in season five. 424 00:32:11.819 --> 00:32:13.740 I know where you're going. 425 00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:26.940 Gareth Gareth Roberts has said that one of his original drafts, the occupier of the ship above the Aikman Road flat was actually Meglos. 426 00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:29.279 How was that possible Megalos was destroyed? 427 00:32:29.339 --> 00:32:32.220 Well, he met the facted himself on a wavelength of light. 428 00:32:32.279 --> 00:32:33.059 He was indestructible. 429 00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:37.859 Yeah, and Megloth does get back in his little cabinet at the end before the thing goes down. 430 00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:40.799 So, you know, maybe maybe he Harriet Jones did out of there. 431 00:32:40.859 --> 00:32:47.160 But the script that Gareth Roberts provided to Doctor Who magazine was essentially saying, oh. 432 00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:52.980 And the doctor says, who? 433 00:32:59.819 --> 00:33:04.019 Um, oh, Alexa rings a bell. 434 00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:06.660 Um, look, that was a long time ago. 435 00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:14.460 You know, I don't really remember, and the whole joke of the episode would have been that the Megloss has been tracking the doctor and the doctor has no idea who Megloss is. 436 00:33:14.519 --> 00:33:15.480 He's just forgotten. 437 00:33:15.539 --> 00:33:24.420 I think it would have been very easy for him to slip in that extra page into the script just so that Russell can have a bit of a chuckle. 438 00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:25.980 No, I don't. 439 00:33:26.519 --> 00:33:41.819 The thing that makes me wonder, if there's any truth to it is, of course, we later find out that it's a spaceship of the silence, because when the doctor 1st goes up there, he sees a body of a silence, but then when Amy says to him later, you know, who was in the ship, he says there was no one there. 440 00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:45.900 And, you know, you don't realise why that is until a few episodes later. 441 00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:53.099 But I like to think that maybe at some point that crossed Stephen Moffatt's desk and Moffatt just said, really, Gareth, really? 442 00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:56.039 But... 443 00:33:56.039 --> 00:33:58.440 It's bizarre. 444 00:33:58.500 --> 00:34:03.059 For someone, for an era, often accused of removing the fun. 445 00:34:03.180 --> 00:34:13.139 This story is remarkably fun, and Brotadak is really funny, and of course we get that we get the whole thing of his, his name is an anagram of bad actor. 446 00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:14.519 Oh is it really? 447 00:34:14.579 --> 00:34:15.960 Yeah, he's terrifically good though. 448 00:34:16.019 --> 00:34:16.980 Oh, yeah, yeah. 449 00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:18.780 It was written before he was cast. 450 00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:26.280 And, of course, we have Bill Fraser as General Grugger, who is the story that he only took the role if he got to kick canine, which is correct. 451 00:34:26.340 --> 00:34:26.639 Yep. 452 00:34:26.699 --> 00:34:29.099 See, I don't really warmed his performance. 453 00:34:29.219 --> 00:34:32.219 Like, I think it's fine, but... 454 00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:33.659 But I really like Roger Zak. 455 00:34:33.719 --> 00:34:34.079 Yeah. 456 00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:39.960 But something I really like about General Gregory is, he could have easily been another Torpen. 457 00:34:40.019 --> 00:34:49.619 You know, he could have easily been some kind of stereotype, but instead, you know, he's not incredibly clever, but he's quite shrewd. 458 00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:51.420 He's cleverer than Brottadak. 459 00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:53.940 He feels like a character rather than a caricature. 460 00:34:54.059 --> 00:34:57.539 It's funny how similar this is to creature from the pit, isn't it? 461 00:34:57.599 --> 00:34:58.619 It's really, really similar. 462 00:34:58.679 --> 00:35:06.239 And in some respects, it's better, like visually, it's better, although the creature from the pit had that great film work. 463 00:35:06.300 --> 00:35:06.780 Yes. 464 00:35:06.780 --> 00:35:15.900 But script wise and thematically, we had so much to say about what creature from the pit said about, you know, capitalism and scarcity and stuff, it had real ideas in it. 465 00:35:15.900 --> 00:35:25.079 This one had scientists are smart and religious people are stupid as its central conceit, and that's just, you know, A, hackneyed and B, horrible. 466 00:35:25.139 --> 00:35:37.139 Yeah, you know, if it had been, I was going to say, if it had been derived by more experienced writers, but the idea, the idea came from the writers, it wasn't Christopher Bid me saying, I'd like a story about science versus a religion, guys. 467 00:35:38.340 --> 00:35:40.619 It's just a matter of, you know, if they'd had more time. 468 00:35:40.619 --> 00:35:47.219 And no one's really to blame for that because Graham Williams actually left the new production team. 469 00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:52.260 Far more than what Philip Hinchcliffe had left him. 470 00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:57.480 And again, that wasn't Hinchcliffe's fault that the vampire mutations had to be gotten rid of. 471 00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:01.980 But the thing Graham Williams essentially left them with two scripts in development. 472 00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:05.099 And, yeah, so this is the first one commissioned by the new production team. 473 00:36:05.159 --> 00:36:08.519 And, you know, the 1st one commissioned by the new production team is usually a bit ropey. 474 00:36:08.579 --> 00:36:14.219 You know, we had the Invisible Enemy was the 1st one commissioned by... 475 00:36:14.820 --> 00:36:24.360 Yeah, it's just, if they had have had an extra week to work on the scripts, I think this one would be a lot more fondly remembered, but as it is, it's ironing Doctor Who. 476 00:36:24.420 --> 00:36:25.500 It's an ironing movie. 477 00:36:43.559 --> 00:37:07.559 As we rocket away from an explosion on Zolphithura, we're heading into far deeper danger next week in full circle, until then, you can find us a flight through entirety.com, flight through entirety on Facebook, and iTunes and FTE podcast on Twitter, over on Bond Finger, we have a variety of bond commentaries available, and Bond Finger cast on Twitter, Bond Finger on Facebook and iTunes. 478 00:37:07.619 --> 00:37:15.179 Until we see you next week, may none of your cactuses try to possess you and take over Krego, and thank you very much for listening and good night. 479 00:37:15.239 --> 00:37:15.780 Good night. 480 00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:16.559 See you soon. 481 00:37:22.619 --> 00:37:26.760 That was Flatthrough Entirety with Todd Bealby, Nathan Bottomry and Brendan Jones. 482 00:37:26.820 --> 00:37:28.800 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. 483 00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:34.500 This episode, by the power of bad acting, was recorded on February 20th. 484 00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:37.019 The next episode will be released on April 17th. 485 00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:43.739 If shrinking a D12 is the ultimate impossibility, you should see what I can do with a D20. 486 00:37:49.980 --> 00:37:51.420 Can we talk about Megloss? 487 00:37:51.480 --> 00:37:53.099 Well, I haven't finished with Jackie. 488 00:37:53.880 --> 00:37:56.519 Yes, we can talk about Jackie somewhere. 489 00:37:56.579 --> 00:37:59.159 So I want to talk about that.