WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 16:11:46

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I am decider, Brendan.

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I am the cider Nathan.

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I am the silent.

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And you are the listener.

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Welcome to Flightthrough Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast

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Evolved from Riverfruit.

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Oh, now if they like, I should say I'm Nathan.

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And things are all about to go a bit green and wibbly as we find

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ourselves on the planet Alzarius for full circle.

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So, this is a Doctor Who story written by a Doctor Who fan

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starring a Doctor Who fan.

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So which Doctor Who fan would you like to talk about first

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gentlemen?

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I think we have to go for Andrew Smith, because there's so much to

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say about Matthew Waterhouse.

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But let's go with Andrew Smith.

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What do you think?

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And this is the only time we'll get to talk about Andrew, isn't

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it?

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Yeah, that's true.

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Although it does start with some scenes that must be by old CHB

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himself.

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We didn't mention last time that at the end, Romana gets that call

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from Gallifre.

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Yes, that's right.

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Before they take the earthling home.

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She does.

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So here we start off with her not wanting to go back to Califre at

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all.

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The doctor talks about Leila and Andra.

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Yes, yes.

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And Kane, you'll get to meet your twin.

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I don't particularly like Marla's performance in that scene.

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I think it's far too emotional.

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Do you know, it's, again, Bidmead says, I'm sure, am I traducing

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Bidmead here or misquoting him?

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I got the impression that he didn't like the soap opera elements

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of the new series.

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Oh, well, no, I think you're right there, but I quite enjoy that.

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For the same reason that we've really been enjoying wireless

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performance for the last 2 stories.

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And I think Lala is possibly enjoying herself a bit more because

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she's actually getting to act, you know, and she's being given

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material that means she has to vary. her performance.

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And this is the story where it starts to, sort of, take season 17

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thing of the individual against the conglomerate.

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And slightly put a new spin on it, because it starts to become

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about responsibility in the end of childhood and the end of

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adventuring.

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And it's very uncomfortable, especially for the doctor to, she

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says to the doctor, you fought the time lords, and he says, yes

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and I lost, and I just, the scene is, I think, quite underplayed

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by both of them, emotionally played, but underplayed because

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they're talking about giving up a massive, massive thing.

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Their relationship with each other.

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She's talking about giving up travelling.

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But it's just done in such a subtle way, and it sort of ends with

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her going, well, that's that then.

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So it is really different from anything that we've had for years.

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I mean, the doctor and Romana have just smirked their way through

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the universe, like not really caring about anything, and not

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reflecting at all on how they feel about each other or what they

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think of the lives that they lead.

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And so here you get this sort of soap opera element, and, and all

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of those continuity references.

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And I don't like the Android Leela thing very much.

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I do like the soap opera thing a bit, but both of them.

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Again, we said this before, I think I've said it on a recent

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episode.

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These are the things that are going to poison the program to

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death.

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The soap opera, which will be hugely ineptly done after this year

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with all the characters wandering around TARDIS bedrooms and

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moating in, you know, just the most amateurish way imaginable.

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And then the continuity references, you know, the attack of the

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Cyberman factor, where, you know, we just mentioned past stories

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that happened years ago in a way that no one could possibly care

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about, except members of the Doctor Who Appreciation Society.

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Here, I think it's before the rot sets in.

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I thought it was a refreshing change at this point in our flight.

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I don't have a problem with the content of the actual scene up to

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that endpoint.

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Yeah, but I just don't like her reaction at the end of it.

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I think it's, it's one of those lava moments that I dislike in her

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portrayal's Romana.

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It's only, again, it's just that one moment.

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I think when she's possessed later in the story, her possession

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stuff is fair.

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Oh, yeah, yeah.

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Her collapse at the end, however, is utterly awful.

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She gets bitten by the spider at the end of episode 3 and gently

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lowers herself to the ground.

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There's a moment.

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I've got it written episode four.

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Romana has collapsed awful.

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So can't remember what that was, but her possession, I think, is

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fantastic.

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And besides that one moment, I think, again, Lila does a great

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job.

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That's only spiders.

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And this is her 2nd last story.

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Like because of the sequence of filming.

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The distance film 4th.

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Yeah, so to recap, it's gone leisure hive, state of decay, Meglos

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full circle.

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So, um, yeah, state of decay as Matthew Waterhouse's 1st

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appearance was written far before a lot of his setup, but one

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thing JNT was very good at is he would write 2 or 3 page occupants

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giving the backgrounds of characters.

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Most of the stuff would never be seen on screen, but famously

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we'll get to later.

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Nicola Bryant took that and wrote a 10 page character description

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of her own and said to John, this is where it's coming from.

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John pretty much turned around and said, great, now put on this

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bikini. your character.

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Poor Nicola.

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So what do you think of the script?

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This is my favourite story thus far this season.

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Yeah, right?

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I think it's really of its production.

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There's some rapey things we'll talk about, but in terms of all

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the different characters. that are going on, the performances

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generally. give this more than eight.

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So it's, you know, it's a solid. a solid A minus for me.

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I think it's a terrifically clever script and it's political in a

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way that even last year wasn't as cleverly political.

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I don't think it's really great that Bid Me has taken the time to

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foster new talent and particularly here, to get this script into a

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place that it is so generally so coherent and just solid.

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Super clever.

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So we learn very early on that there's a dark secret and that no

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one's allowed to know it.

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Romana describes society as a type de- oligarchy, doesn't she?

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And there's 3 people who know stuff.

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Like, they know that the ship could take off and that all the

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activity that everyone is doing is a waste of time.

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And only one of them knows that they're not really from Pteradon

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at all, that they evolved from the Marshmen.

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And initially, that's Dreith.

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And then we see after Dre dies, we see Nefred getting the news and

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reacting to it.

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And it's this terrible dark secret.

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And normally, you sort of think, well, that's just never gonna pay

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off.

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It's gonna be something really stupid, but in fact, it's something

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really kind of clever and important and interesting.

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It pays off properly, I think.

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And something, I always struggle with the story that I never quite

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could get my head around.

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Were they on the style, I know, when it crashed.

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Did they evolve from the marsh men, like from the...

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Yeah, sex and that sort of thing?

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I don't know that's something that I used to criticise this script

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for.

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So I just kind of, every time I watch it, I always forget that

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that's...

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Yeah, so I think the idea is that the Teradonians are killed and

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are replaced by the marshmen, and that they describe the gases of

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mistfall as being toxic.

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And later on in the script that said, oh, we say that because we

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want to keep people from venturing out and getting eaten.

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But I actually think probably the mistfall gases were toxic to the

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Teradonians who are now all dead and they've been replaced by the

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marshmen.

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The records in the ship say that the myths are toxic.

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So when they're in the ship, they're like, oh, the myths are

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toxic.

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This script does polemic versus science so much better than last

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week with Meglos doing religion versus science.

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And it's so interesting that last week, the scripture was written

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by two writers, we didn't really discuss this, but one was an

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experienced writer, one was a writer and actor, and they both went

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on to write for other shows, and one of them went on acting

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appeared in Young Indiana Jones.

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But this story is written by an 18 year old, with lots of guidance

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from Christopher Bidmade.

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But perhaps because he is so young, perhaps that's why we're able

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to get this kind of new, very fresh idea.

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There's this thing online which is the evil overlord checklist.

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And it's things like, you know, I will make sure my guards are

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well fed, so they won't be distracted by food being thrown to them

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by the prisoners.

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But one of the rules is, when I have an evil super plan, which no

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one can possibly find a way around, I will explain it to a five

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year old.

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If the five year old configuration out a way around it, I will

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immediately adopt a new plan.

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And it's that thing of the new ideas of children, out of the

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mounds of babes, because, as we get older, we become set in our

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ideas and ways of thinking, because we have so much experience, and

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we know what works for us.

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And the best writers sort of have a way of looking at old ideas in

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a new way.

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Whereas, an inexperienced writer, and not all inexperienced

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writers, of course, but some inexperienced writers, would then

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have a new way to look at something they're really familiar with.

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So he's really familiar with Doctor Who.

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He would know what kind of stories have been done before.

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So, he could have done what Flanagan and McCulloch did, which is

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Dr. and Romana, turn up and age civilisation that split in two.

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Oh, he can go, what hasn't Doctor Who done before?

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And his original plot line, the doctor in Nirvana land on a planet

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a freighter crashes.

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They help people repair the freighter, but marshmen are coming, but

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one of the marshmen is peaceful, and that marshmen helps them, then

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sacrifices itself and the freighter gets away.

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And already in there, you've got the germ, the idea of evolution

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that all of the marshmen are aggressive except for this one, this

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one.

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There's no central villain, is there?

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No.

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So, but I think that the, I think that the villains are the

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deciders.

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At the very beginning, they seem like the headmaster of a school

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or something.

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You know, they know everyone by name, you know, decided Dreith.

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He's kind of famous and known to people.

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But everyone seems to know everyone.

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And so it seems like a sort of rather benevolent sort of system

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where you've got these nice old men who everyone sort of seems to

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like who care about people and know them by name.

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But what they've done is they have, by controlling access to

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knowledge, they've completely frozen this society in absolute

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stasis, to the point, where there's no prospect that they'll ever

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leave.

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You know, they harbour the knowledge that they don't know how to

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operate the ship, even though it would work now.

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So they've completely put a stop to the society developing in any

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way at all.

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And there's something cynical about them as well.

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The thing that makes me suspicious of the deciders is decide a

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Logan.

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So, Logan's daughter, Chiara is one of the outlers.

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When Mistfall comes, she's locked out of the starliner, and

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Logan's originally distressed by that.

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But then he's given the offer to become a decider and he just says

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oh, yes, she was a disruptive influence.

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And that's exactly the sort of thing that like a malevolent

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totalitarian ruler calls someone.

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And so he cynically betrays his daughter in order to become a

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decider.

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But then what happens is the designers themselves feel compelled

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to keep the knowledge secret.

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Nifred's not allowed to tell anyone anything.

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The other deciders aren't allowed to tell anyone anything either.

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But they start to feel, like, the pressure of that.

247
00:12:51.899 --> 00:12:54.960
They're worried by that, which is why both Dreith and Nefred

248
00:12:54.960 --> 00:13:00.360
support Dexet are investigating 'cause he's going to find out the

249
00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:00.659
truth.

250
00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:03.779
Like, you know, if the doctor finds out the truth, based on

251
00:13:03.779 --> 00:13:07.620
Dexeter's work with the marsh child, Nifred kind of spills the

252
00:13:07.620 --> 00:13:08.940
beans when he's going to die.

253
00:13:08.940 --> 00:13:15.179
Logan sees that the stasis that they've put their society in, has

254
00:13:15.179 --> 00:13:18.360
made them vulnerable to the marshmen that can adapt, that can

255
00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:23.279
improve, that can progress, and he's kind of horrified by what

256
00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:23.759
they've done.

257
00:13:23.820 --> 00:13:27.899
So I think that every bit as much as the three who rule are next

258
00:13:27.899 --> 00:13:32.639
week, villains who keep their society in stasis, the deciders are

259
00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:33.000
too.

260
00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:39.360
But in this case, they are reflecting and ultimately going to

261
00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:43.679
change. which I think is very different from a lot of Doctor Who.

262
00:13:43.740 --> 00:13:45.960
I just need to go back to the plot point.

263
00:13:46.019 --> 00:13:48.480
So the guys doing the repair on the spaceship.

264
00:13:48.539 --> 00:13:50.279
They've evolved from what?

265
00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:51.480
The marshman.

266
00:13:51.539 --> 00:13:57.120
But the marshmen... are still evolving, like, this is, okay, I'm

267
00:13:57.120 --> 00:14:00.779
sorry, I'm like, surely if they've evolved, why would these other

268
00:14:00.779 --> 00:14:04.080
marshmen suddenly appear that aren't as evolved as them?

269
00:14:04.139 --> 00:14:06.720
Surely the whole society is one would have evolved as one.

270
00:14:06.779 --> 00:14:09.720
See, evolution here works differently.

271
00:14:09.779 --> 00:14:12.120
It's science fiction evolution.

272
00:14:12.179 --> 00:14:14.879
And, of course, we are in a different universe with slightly

273
00:14:14.879 --> 00:14:15.539
different physical laws.

274
00:14:15.659 --> 00:14:18.779
So you have the spiders, you have the marshmen, and you have, let's

275
00:14:18.779 --> 00:14:20.460
call them, the pteradonians.

276
00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:24.659
So, the spiders will always evolve into the marshman.

277
00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:27.299
The marshmen will then evolve into the Terridonians, and their new

278
00:14:27.299 --> 00:14:30.120
spiders will start, and those spiders eventually will evolve into

279
00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:30.659
marshmen.

280
00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:33.659
And those new marshmen will eventually evolve into Terridonians.

281
00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:39.000
So, we have this thing where they've been there for 40,000

282
00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:45.059
generations, or it's quite possible that, eventually, the marshmen

283
00:14:45.059 --> 00:14:49.320
kill the Teridonians, and then become the Teridonians, only to be

284
00:14:49.320 --> 00:14:50.580
killed by another lot of marshmen.

285
00:14:50.700 --> 00:14:52.559
Maybe that's happened a bunch of times already.

286
00:14:52.620 --> 00:14:52.860
Exactly.

287
00:14:52.919 --> 00:14:53.820
Thank you.

288
00:14:53.879 --> 00:14:58.080
That's what that's the question I was asking, because it's 40,000

289
00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:01.080
years, and I'm going, but Shawnee, there'd be some, they don't

290
00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:03.899
seem to have any sort of, all that technology is just in the ship

291
00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:08.580
where do they make the new components, you know, that are going to

292
00:15:08.580 --> 00:15:09.720
keep this alive?

293
00:15:09.779 --> 00:15:10.799
Why is this not?

294
00:15:10.980 --> 00:15:14.940
Those little aspects of things that have confused me over the

295
00:15:14.940 --> 00:15:15.360
years.

296
00:15:15.419 --> 00:15:19.320
But the society is in complete stasis and they have a goal that

297
00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:20.399
they're working towards.

298
00:15:20.460 --> 00:15:23.879
But the deciders know that that's futile.

299
00:15:23.940 --> 00:15:27.240
And so they don't do anything else and they're out evolved by the

300
00:15:27.240 --> 00:15:28.320
marsh creatures.

301
00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:32.220
I guess that comes down to something as a kid.

302
00:15:32.279 --> 00:15:34.259
Who's the one that gets dragged into the swamp?

303
00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:35.820
decided Drake.

304
00:15:35.820 --> 00:15:38.700
So, I thought decided Drake got dragged into the swamp and then he

305
00:15:38.700 --> 00:15:42.600
got transformed into the young mask child, like that's who he

306
00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:42.960
became.

307
00:15:43.019 --> 00:15:47.580
Like, I don't know why, but that's how, so he was new to all the

308
00:15:47.580 --> 00:15:49.799
the marsh men sort of, like the rest of them are aggressive, but

309
00:15:49.799 --> 00:15:54.240
he's, he's this amalgamation of a different society and so he's

310
00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:56.759
more, he doesn't understand where he gets in.

311
00:15:56.820 --> 00:15:57.600
I like that idea.

312
00:15:57.659 --> 00:15:58.679
I really do.

313
00:15:58.740 --> 00:16:01.740
I mean, even even without that idea that, you know, the marsh

314
00:16:01.740 --> 00:16:04.740
child being the sort of peaceful one, that's a sign that they're

315
00:16:04.740 --> 00:16:05.700
they're evolving.

316
00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:09.179
Although it's them weird if they kill all the Teradonians and take

317
00:16:09.179 --> 00:16:09.539
their ship.

318
00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:13.740
So they just live underneath the lake, in the mud or whatever.

319
00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:16.320
Yeah, I think a new population comes up every 50 years.

320
00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:18.059
They lock themselves away.

321
00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:21.840
They made or whatever, and then when the gases go, then they go

322
00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:26.159
back down if they haven't killed off the residents or if they

323
00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:28.679
haven't evolved enough to look like the people in the ship.

324
00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:33.779
It's really clever because it is, I mean, it's all like a

325
00:16:33.779 --> 00:16:35.940
political allegory, really, or, you know.

326
00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:37.320
And that's really clever.

327
00:16:37.379 --> 00:16:39.059
And thank you for explaining all of that to me.

328
00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:41.700
That is the 1st time I've actually understood that, ever, people.

329
00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:46.740
So, um, Can I talk about something that I don't understand in this

330
00:16:46.740 --> 00:16:46.980
story?

331
00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:50.580
We have that wonderful bit of confusion in episode one, where they

332
00:16:50.580 --> 00:16:53.220
switch on the scanner and the scanner shows galafray, but then

333
00:16:53.220 --> 00:16:56.100
they step outside and it's Black Park, where I've been to.

334
00:16:56.159 --> 00:16:58.080
So action figure photos will be on the website.

335
00:16:58.139 --> 00:17:02.700
Actually, it seemed like full circle was being reenacted when I

336
00:17:02.700 --> 00:17:04.980
went there with friend of the podcast, Simon Hart, and there are

337
00:17:04.980 --> 00:17:09.420
all these men in swimming costumes in their early 20s, jumping

338
00:17:09.420 --> 00:17:11.460
around and swimming in the lake being filmed. were they splashing

339
00:17:11.460 --> 00:17:11.700
each other?

340
00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:12.720
They were splashing each other.

341
00:17:12.779 --> 00:17:15.599
They were being filmed for some form of TV show and we said, we

342
00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:17.220
must find out what that TV we never did.

343
00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:18.480
Anyway.

344
00:17:18.539 --> 00:17:21.539
So they land, they see Gallifrey on the screen, but it's not

345
00:17:21.539 --> 00:17:24.180
Gallifrey outside, and that's explained that because the Tarnus

346
00:17:24.180 --> 00:17:27.660
has this image translator, which translates the coordinates, into

347
00:17:27.660 --> 00:17:28.559
images.

348
00:17:31.619 --> 00:17:36.299
Could we not just have a camera that will actually show you what's

349
00:17:36.299 --> 00:17:36.779
happening outside?

350
00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:40.259
Because that's like, instead of, I'm going to look out the window

351
00:17:40.259 --> 00:17:43.500
and see what's happening on the street outside, that's like saying

352
00:17:43.500 --> 00:17:46.559
I'm going to check Google Earth and see what's happening on the

353
00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:49.140
street outside. because that's got the coordinate.

354
00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:52.140
You know, it introduces the idea of negative coordinates in a very

355
00:17:52.140 --> 00:17:56.039
in a very understandable way without just being word peril.

356
00:17:56.099 --> 00:17:59.880
But at the same, it doesn't stand up to any form of group

357
00:17:59.880 --> 00:18:00.960
whatsoever.

358
00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:06.059
I was always a bit of a nerd about eSpace, and I just assumed that

359
00:18:06.059 --> 00:18:10.619
bits of eSpace had sort of corresponding parts.

360
00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:14.519
And so the Gallifrey and Alzarius are actually in the same place

361
00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:16.980
but one's in e-space and one's in end space.

362
00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:20.220
And so the image translator is just looking out of the window.

363
00:18:20.279 --> 00:18:21.000
It is a camera.

364
00:18:21.059 --> 00:18:25.079
We later see an image translator in Dexeter's microscope, which is

365
00:18:25.079 --> 00:18:27.480
where they get the eSpace one.

366
00:18:27.539 --> 00:18:28.079
Yeah.

367
00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:31.680
So the end space one can only see what's here in end space.

368
00:18:31.740 --> 00:18:33.660
So it's not quite Google for you.

369
00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:37.079
And then and then negative coordinates never really made any sense

370
00:18:37.079 --> 00:18:39.839
because if space is infinite, then they can't be Cartesian

371
00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:40.920
coordinates, can they?

372
00:18:40.980 --> 00:18:44.940
Because otherwise the universe would have a corner in it, you know

373
00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:46.680
that you couldn't go beyond.

374
00:18:46.740 --> 00:18:49.740
So maybe they're polar coordinates and it's kind of like the

375
00:18:49.740 --> 00:18:52.019
radial coordinates negative or something.

376
00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:53.099
Who knows?

377
00:18:53.220 --> 00:18:54.119
My brain hurts.

378
00:18:54.180 --> 00:18:55.440
Yeah, so does mine.

379
00:18:55.920 --> 00:19:00.000
I always think the moment we have normal space and then eSpace.

380
00:19:00.059 --> 00:19:03.299
I always thought eSpace is this little thing at the side of in

381
00:19:03.299 --> 00:19:05.039
space and you had the...

382
00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:06.720
It's like a bubble clinging onto another bubble.

383
00:19:06.779 --> 00:19:09.420
That's correct. putting too much air in a balloon.

384
00:19:09.480 --> 00:19:12.779
So again, for me, the universe is shrinking. because you can have

385
00:19:12.779 --> 00:19:16.619
this finite in space and the finite e-space.

386
00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:18.660
You know where I think that might come from?

387
00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:22.500
At least where that impression comes from, for me, because does

388
00:19:22.500 --> 00:19:24.839
the doctor refer to eSpace as being smaller on screen?

389
00:19:24.900 --> 00:19:25.440
Yeah.

390
00:19:25.500 --> 00:19:26.279
Oh, okay, he does.

391
00:19:26.339 --> 00:19:26.940
Fair enough.

392
00:19:27.059 --> 00:19:30.480
Because the BBV audios with canine and the mistress, of course

393
00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:31.920
were adventures in a pocket universe.

394
00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:33.299
Okay.

395
00:19:33.299 --> 00:19:36.420
And I remember wanting those as a kid.

396
00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:39.180
I never got them and I'm not sure I really care now.

397
00:19:39.480 --> 00:19:43.619
Because we had proper Romana and canine stuff. on Gallifrey with

398
00:19:43.619 --> 00:19:44.160
Leila.

399
00:19:44.220 --> 00:19:44.640
Okay.

400
00:19:44.700 --> 00:19:47.759
Getting away from Andrew and the Plos and everything like that. and

401
00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:51.420
all the CVE stuff, which is obviously from our good script editor

402
00:19:51.420 --> 00:19:51.660
friend.

403
00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:52.859
The director.

404
00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:54.599
Hit a grimwade.

405
00:19:54.660 --> 00:19:57.240
This is his 1st time directing Doctor Who.

406
00:19:57.299 --> 00:20:01.980
And lots of location work all out in the park.

407
00:20:02.579 --> 00:20:04.319
And there's so many extras.

408
00:20:04.380 --> 00:20:09.839
Like, amazing, with all the mist coming in and all that sort of

409
00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:10.079
stuff.

410
00:20:10.140 --> 00:20:13.319
I do heaven help you if you don't like river fruit.

411
00:20:13.380 --> 00:20:15.059
It's all everything you can eat.

412
00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:16.500
That's all you can eat.

413
00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:17.940
Can I say something?

414
00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:21.539
The swimming with those guys in the lake.

415
00:20:21.660 --> 00:20:24.000
And it's being costumes, which...

416
00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:25.440
They're transparent.

417
00:20:25.500 --> 00:20:26.819
They're transparent.

418
00:20:28.019 --> 00:20:32.220
They got this through, the census, like nobody picked this up.

419
00:20:32.279 --> 00:20:35.460
Like they're not only skimpy, but they're actually see-through.

420
00:20:35.519 --> 00:20:36.900
It's really incredible.

421
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:40.740
I mean, Peter Grimwade has an obvious sort of reason for wanting

422
00:20:40.740 --> 00:20:44.819
to include images of that in his show.

423
00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:45.660
Yes.

424
00:20:45.660 --> 00:20:50.160
And Rod is about the same age as Matthew Waterhouse and so had a

425
00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:52.200
crush on Adrick in the early 80s.

426
00:20:52.259 --> 00:20:55.680
And when we were rewatching this, I've got in my notes here.

427
00:20:55.740 --> 00:20:59.700
Matthew Waterhouse can't swim, but for some reason I don't care.

428
00:21:00.420 --> 00:21:03.599
And that's just as the camera switches to his ass.

429
00:21:03.660 --> 00:21:05.099
He can't swim.

430
00:21:05.160 --> 00:21:05.940
No.

431
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:07.500
Whatever.

432
00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:09.900
Well, well, he spins in a very special way.

433
00:21:09.960 --> 00:21:12.779
He can't walk either, to be honest.

434
00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:14.819
I mean he walks in a very special way as well.

435
00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:16.380
Decided.

436
00:21:16.380 --> 00:21:20.099
I guess we need, since we've brought it up, we may as well start

437
00:21:20.099 --> 00:21:20.460
to talk about.

438
00:21:20.579 --> 00:21:24.660
I did want to just say briefly that I thought that the location

439
00:21:24.660 --> 00:21:26.579
stuff is spectacularly good.

440
00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:27.059
It is.

441
00:21:27.059 --> 00:21:30.480
And it is the 1st location, the 1st you know, we had the leisure

442
00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:33.000
hive the other day, but it's the 1st proper location work since

443
00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:34.440
Paris, really, isn't it?

444
00:21:34.500 --> 00:21:34.859
Yeah.

445
00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:39.539
And it's lit with gels that make it seem, you know, brighter and a

446
00:21:39.539 --> 00:21:40.079
bit alien.

447
00:21:40.140 --> 00:21:43.440
They've constructed little dwellings and piles of things and stuff

448
00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:44.640
like they've dressed the set.

449
00:21:44.819 --> 00:21:46.920
They painted some of the plants.

450
00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:47.880
Yeah, yeah.

451
00:21:47.940 --> 00:21:49.200
Yeah, with a wash off paint.

452
00:21:49.259 --> 00:21:52.319
So it's really, really good and really refreshing.

453
00:21:52.380 --> 00:21:53.519
It makes such a nice change.

454
00:21:53.579 --> 00:21:55.019
It's really well done.

455
00:21:55.079 --> 00:21:56.819
Look, I completely agree with you.

456
00:21:56.880 --> 00:21:58.380
You know, the marsh men.

457
00:21:58.500 --> 00:22:00.000
What do you think of them coming out of the wall?

458
00:22:00.059 --> 00:22:02.339
I actually don't think that's as effective as it could be.

459
00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:06.539
And it's clearly people remember the sea devils and that's not

460
00:22:06.539 --> 00:22:07.740
particularly effective either.

461
00:22:07.859 --> 00:22:08.880
That looks ridiculous too.

462
00:22:08.940 --> 00:22:12.779
We eventually get it right, probably in Curse of Fenrik, where the

463
00:22:12.779 --> 00:22:15.119
things coming out of the water look quite good, but this doesn't

464
00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:15.539
look that great.

465
00:22:15.660 --> 00:22:16.799
The mist is sort of good.

466
00:22:16.859 --> 00:22:18.119
There's a bit of slow-mo and stuff.

467
00:22:18.180 --> 00:22:22.019
I'm not, I don't think that the Marshman costumes really work all

468
00:22:22.019 --> 00:22:22.559
that well.

469
00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:26.099
And they do have, like, gloves and cuffs on them and things.

470
00:22:26.220 --> 00:22:28.079
Like, they're not terrifically good.

471
00:22:28.140 --> 00:22:29.220
They're not that terrible.

472
00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:31.200
They're passable.

473
00:22:31.259 --> 00:22:32.759
K9's working quite well.

474
00:22:32.819 --> 00:22:35.339
Isn't he on the outdoor stuff?

475
00:22:35.400 --> 00:22:36.660
Yeah, it's trending a lot right.

476
00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:39.000
Well, although apparently you can see the wire at one point.

477
00:22:39.059 --> 00:22:42.420
And of course, we have Patty Kingsland on solo duty for the 1st

478
00:22:42.420 --> 00:22:42.720
time.

479
00:22:42.779 --> 00:22:46.259
He and Peter Howe shared the last story. and he's got his

480
00:22:46.259 --> 00:22:47.640
wonderful canine theme.

481
00:22:47.700 --> 00:22:48.359
Yeah.

482
00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:53.819
And it gets a theme as well.

483
00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:56.579
Yeah, yeah, which...

484
00:22:56.579 --> 00:23:00.839
I can't even...

485
00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:02.519
They play it in Earth Rock when he dies.

486
00:23:02.579 --> 00:23:04.079
Just watched Earth, Shocks him.

487
00:23:04.140 --> 00:23:05.160
So bad.

488
00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:08.039
But yeah, Patty's doing a great job here.

489
00:23:08.099 --> 00:23:08.819
Like there's...

490
00:23:08.819 --> 00:23:10.619
It's really weird.

491
00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:16.619
There was a superfluity of inappropriate guitar Wawa music and

492
00:23:16.619 --> 00:23:19.799
television at this point, like the theme for the new Avengers and

493
00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:22.200
space 1999 season two.

494
00:23:22.259 --> 00:23:25.559
Patty Kingsland really makes it work.

495
00:23:25.619 --> 00:23:29.700
Like he underscores the action scenes with this sort of synth

496
00:23:29.700 --> 00:23:31.380
guitar Wawa sound.

497
00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:33.240
But it sounds great.

498
00:23:33.299 --> 00:23:34.980
I love the soundtrack to this story.

499
00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:39.539
He does the music that the book talks over in Hitchhiker's Guide

500
00:23:39.539 --> 00:23:41.039
to the Galaxy series too.

501
00:23:41.099 --> 00:23:42.900
And it's really good.

502
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:44.700
It's really witty music.

503
00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:46.079
He's terrific.

504
00:23:46.140 --> 00:23:47.339
He's tremendous.

505
00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:52.380
Like, um, Peter Howe, his incidental music is just something that

506
00:23:52.380 --> 00:23:56.279
you know, 1981 to 1984 or whatever.

507
00:23:56.339 --> 00:23:58.980
It just is the early 80s.

508
00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:00.779
Yeah, but it's good.

509
00:24:00.839 --> 00:24:01.680
Like, it's not dated.

510
00:24:01.740 --> 00:24:03.180
No, at all.

511
00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:04.859
So Matthew Waterhouse.

512
00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:07.380
Yeah, so let's come back to Matthew Wadhouse. circling around

513
00:24:07.380 --> 00:24:07.799
him.

514
00:24:07.859 --> 00:24:10.500
Todd is doing a double-faced palm, dear listener.

515
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:12.480
I just don't understand.

516
00:24:12.539 --> 00:24:15.539
Barry Letts is in on the casting, right?

517
00:24:15.539 --> 00:24:16.079
of this.

518
00:24:16.140 --> 00:24:18.539
We've got, who plays Marsh in this story?

519
00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:23.099
Richard Willis. who played Simon Gibbs Kemp, didn't he play, he

520
00:24:23.099 --> 00:24:23.579
was Seth?

521
00:24:23.579 --> 00:24:25.019
Seth, whom you enjoy?

522
00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:26.819
Yeah, he was good.

523
00:24:26.880 --> 00:24:27.599
And both of them.

524
00:24:27.720 --> 00:24:30.839
Both of those two actors are very natural.

525
00:24:30.900 --> 00:24:33.299
Maybe because they're slightly older.

526
00:24:33.420 --> 00:24:34.680
Maybe they're 22, 23.

527
00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:35.880
Maybe they've got a bit of life experience.

528
00:24:35.940 --> 00:24:37.079
Matthew is very young.

529
00:24:37.140 --> 00:24:37.799
He's only 18.

530
00:24:37.980 --> 00:24:38.880
Right?

531
00:24:38.940 --> 00:24:42.539
Compared to a lot of other Doctor Who actors, like companions.

532
00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:43.980
Everybody else tends to be like 2021.

533
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:46.259
And there is a big difference between 18 and that.

534
00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:51.539
I mean, Sarah Sutton is going to be the same age, but she's done a

535
00:24:51.539 --> 00:24:52.200
lot of acting before.

536
00:24:52.259 --> 00:24:58.079
It just puzzles me as to, as to why his body is so awkward in his

537
00:24:58.079 --> 00:24:58.440
movements.

538
00:24:58.440 --> 00:24:59.640
Yeah.

539
00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:01.500
I think that's okay.

540
00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:03.180
He's supposed to be a teenager and stuff.

541
00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:05.460
It's just whenever he tries to express emotion.

542
00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:07.079
When he's happy, he's all right.

543
00:25:07.140 --> 00:25:07.920
He's tolerable.

544
00:25:07.980 --> 00:25:13.019
When he emotes, he's just terrible.

545
00:25:13.079 --> 00:25:16.380
You know, he comes into the TARTAS and faints, it's just like a

546
00:25:16.380 --> 00:25:17.279
giant embarrassment.

547
00:25:17.339 --> 00:25:18.299
That is...

548
00:25:18.420 --> 00:25:21.660
I mean, but getting the character to faint as well, doesn't it?

549
00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:23.220
Do anything for the character?

550
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:23.880
Yeah, yeah.

551
00:25:23.940 --> 00:25:28.019
I will say this, and I'm foreshouting a lot of things to come.

552
00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:31.319
I think I think Matthew does get better in this season and I think

553
00:25:31.319 --> 00:25:35.519
with Tom in the last 2 stories, I think they are his best

554
00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:40.140
performances as opposed to the following season where I think the

555
00:25:40.140 --> 00:25:45.240
character is written like really badly and he's not growing as an

556
00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:45.599
actor.

557
00:25:45.660 --> 00:25:47.700
Like so many other doctor who actors come into this show.

558
00:25:47.759 --> 00:25:51.240
And they might be a bit ropey in their 1st episodes, but then you

559
00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:53.579
see a growth in what they're doing and that sort of thing.

560
00:25:53.640 --> 00:25:57.420
And I don't, and I think that's something... that I don't see

561
00:25:57.420 --> 00:25:58.440
here.

562
00:25:58.500 --> 00:26:01.740
And we've been we've been talking about that with Lala.

563
00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:05.519
And Lala started off far stronger than Matthew Waterhouse has

564
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:06.000
started off.

565
00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:09.900
But Lala has gone from strength to strength and she's having these

566
00:26:09.900 --> 00:26:13.079
real emotional moments and, you know, in her, in her last story

567
00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:14.519
coming up in a couple of weeks.

568
00:26:14.579 --> 00:26:18.420
She's going to put in a cracker of her performance.

569
00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:21.660
I think I'm possibly a little more forgiving of Matthew Waterhouse

570
00:26:21.660 --> 00:26:25.559
than you guys, possibly because when I first started watching

571
00:26:25.559 --> 00:26:27.900
Doctor, obviously, I was much younger than Adrik.

572
00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:30.839
But Adrick as a character was the closest to my own age.

573
00:26:30.900 --> 00:26:31.559
Yeah.

574
00:26:31.559 --> 00:26:36.900
So I think maybe they're not addressing the younger audience as

575
00:26:36.900 --> 00:26:37.140
much.

576
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:40.799
I think this was their effort to try and do that, but Stephen

577
00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:44.759
Moffatt, I think, says it best on the making of Earthshock, we

578
00:26:44.759 --> 00:26:45.900
hate boy geniuses.

579
00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:46.500
Yeah.

580
00:26:46.500 --> 00:26:49.799
I think simply because they're not terribly realistic characters.

581
00:26:49.859 --> 00:26:52.859
Like if you look at the other boy genius in sci-fi, that people

582
00:26:52.859 --> 00:26:55.859
pull up is Wesley Crusher in Star Trek the Next Generation.

583
00:26:55.980 --> 00:26:59.339
Now, if you look at Wesley Crusher in the 3rd season of Star Trek

584
00:26:59.339 --> 00:27:01.380
Next Generation, when they allow him to do things like

585
00:27:01.380 --> 00:27:06.539
accidentally sleep in and have romances, you know, he's still

586
00:27:06.539 --> 00:27:09.839
awkward, and, you know, socially not great, but he's so much

587
00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:12.539
better than in the 1st season, when he'll come onto the bridge and

588
00:27:12.539 --> 00:27:15.599
say, I found a problem, and then someone on the senses will say

589
00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:16.079
he's right.

590
00:27:16.140 --> 00:27:18.059
Will Wheaton grows as an actor.

591
00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:19.140
That's true as well.

592
00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:22.559
Yeah, and he's not, he's not never anywhere near as poor as Murphy

593
00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:23.099
Waterhouse.

594
00:27:23.160 --> 00:27:26.279
I mean, it's a character that's a problem, but it improves.

595
00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:30.420
I mean, I think I've come across as being too harsh.

596
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:34.980
I pick up on his deficiencies as an actor in certain things.

597
00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:37.980
His trip is actually quite good in this story when he trips over

598
00:27:37.980 --> 00:27:40.680
compared to what happens in the visitation, right?

599
00:27:40.920 --> 00:27:42.900
for years in events.

600
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:45.900
But the whole concept of having like the Dr. Romana and a younger

601
00:27:45.900 --> 00:27:49.799
male companion, which I think is very much, for me, taken like

602
00:27:49.799 --> 00:27:52.200
we've seen it happen in the horns of 91, and I actually think it

603
00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:54.480
worked quite well there, but the younger acted there could

604
00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:57.480
actually, you know, was energetic and could really act.

605
00:27:57.539 --> 00:27:59.819
A lot of people just hate Adric.

606
00:27:59.880 --> 00:28:01.019
I just want to say that I don't.

607
00:28:01.079 --> 00:28:02.400
Yeah, I don't.

608
00:28:02.519 --> 00:28:06.960
I don't hate the character and I thought the scene where he's

609
00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:10.559
trying to prove himself to the outlers, you know, it's a very

610
00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:13.859
children's TV scene, but it's a good scene and, you know, like

611
00:28:13.859 --> 00:28:16.799
he's smarter than them because he's mathematical, but he's also

612
00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:18.599
actually properly smarter than them.

613
00:28:18.660 --> 00:28:22.200
Like he would be an asset to the group and they make him prove it

614
00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:22.799
and all of that.

615
00:28:22.859 --> 00:28:24.119
I think all of that's quite good.

616
00:28:24.180 --> 00:28:28.319
I don't think it's a terrible character, but this is the beginning

617
00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:35.640
of the 1980s companions, and I don't think it's a really happy

618
00:28:35.640 --> 00:28:38.220
succession of people.

619
00:28:38.220 --> 00:28:43.079
And it makes me a bit sad because I really like the doctor in

620
00:28:43.079 --> 00:28:44.220
Romana.

621
00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:48.240
We will get to see them together by themselves next in next week's

622
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:50.640
story, because they don't know that Adrick's there.

623
00:28:50.700 --> 00:28:54.720
But from here on in, it's all just a bit of a nightmare, really.

624
00:28:54.779 --> 00:29:00.180
Yeah, the '80s companions, they tend to have, like, a short

625
00:29:00.180 --> 00:29:02.640
sentence character quirk.

626
00:29:02.700 --> 00:29:03.240
Yeah.

627
00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:04.079
A hook sort of thing.

628
00:29:04.140 --> 00:29:04.619
Yeah.

629
00:29:04.680 --> 00:29:06.839
So Adrik is the mathematical genius.

630
00:29:06.900 --> 00:29:07.380
Yeah.

631
00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:08.700
Yeah, that's him.

632
00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:10.680
And we get that in his face.

633
00:29:10.740 --> 00:29:13.980
This is someone who knows very little about telebiogenesis, for

634
00:29:13.980 --> 00:29:14.220
instance.

635
00:29:14.279 --> 00:29:16.619
Tegans mouth on links.

636
00:29:16.619 --> 00:29:17.819
Tegans mouth on links.

637
00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:18.599
But that's the thing.

638
00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:22.380
In Adrik's 1st scene, we get, and you know, I challenge any actor

639
00:29:22.380 --> 00:29:23.460
to make this line work.

640
00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:26.880
That's for mathematical excellence.

641
00:29:26.940 --> 00:29:33.839
You know, it's, it's, um, as you well know, kind of thing. at some

642
00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:36.900
point where he says, I think I've pulled the wrong lever, but in

643
00:29:36.900 --> 00:29:38.759
fact, he's flicked the wrong switch.

644
00:29:38.819 --> 00:29:42.299
Yeah, and I think that's just an actor's inexperience of, yeah

645
00:29:42.299 --> 00:29:46.140
according to all reports, Peter Grimm Wade, while not a difficult

646
00:29:46.140 --> 00:29:48.779
person to get on with, like Alan Bromley was, was a very strict

647
00:29:48.779 --> 00:29:49.500
director.

648
00:29:49.559 --> 00:29:51.839
So it wouldn't surprise me if Matthew Waterhouse.

649
00:29:51.900 --> 00:29:54.420
Because, of course, when Matthew Waterhouse 1st came on set, he

650
00:29:54.420 --> 00:29:57.660
bounded up to Tom Baker and said how happy he was to be working

651
00:29:57.660 --> 00:30:00.720
with him, and Tom said something to him, that ended in off.

652
00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:03.779
How would you be as an 18 year old to encounter that?

653
00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:04.980
Have you read the book?

654
00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:05.640
Yeah, I have.

655
00:30:06.180 --> 00:30:08.940
That's Blue Box Boy, dear listeners.

656
00:30:09.059 --> 00:30:10.319
Yeah, I think of the week.

657
00:30:10.740 --> 00:30:15.000
I think it's a great book and I think personally, you know, I

658
00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:20.759
think I think Mecu comes across really as a nice guy and very

659
00:30:20.759 --> 00:30:23.700
quite insightful and realising that at that time he was that

660
00:30:23.700 --> 00:30:24.180
young.

661
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:28.140
I certainly couldn't have acted like that.

662
00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:31.559
I look at myself at 18 and the difference between me and 18 and 22

663
00:30:31.559 --> 00:30:32.220
was immense.

664
00:30:32.279 --> 00:30:36.599
He remembered watching Tom, like, from robot onwards.

665
00:30:36.660 --> 00:30:38.279
And so Tom was his hero.

666
00:30:38.339 --> 00:30:43.200
And so, you know, like Tom was really horrible to him and Lala was

667
00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:44.220
really horrible to him.

668
00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:47.819
And, you know, like the story is really, really interesting.

669
00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:52.980
And when Matthew came, he came to something, a day event, a

670
00:30:52.980 --> 00:30:53.640
convention or something.

671
00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:55.079
I saw him interview.

672
00:30:55.140 --> 00:30:57.240
Yeah, lots of time, year before last, I think.

673
00:30:57.299 --> 00:30:58.680
He's smart.

674
00:30:58.740 --> 00:31:01.259
Like Matthew Waterhouse is smart.

675
00:31:01.319 --> 00:31:04.019
He's not he's not a fool at all.

676
00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:06.539
You know, like, I was really impressed by him, and I was impressed

677
00:31:06.539 --> 00:31:06.960
by the book.

678
00:31:07.019 --> 00:31:11.039
So, you know, he's got a lot going for him, but he's terrible in

679
00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:13.500
Doctor Who. shockingly bad.

680
00:31:13.559 --> 00:31:16.740
I think having the wig doesn't help. the wig doesn't help.

681
00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:18.720
Having a costume, right?

682
00:31:18.779 --> 00:31:22.019
Which, of course, John Nathan Turner is this thing about costumes

683
00:31:22.019 --> 00:31:24.480
and I think it takes away from people being real characters.

684
00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:28.500
And that's not affecting our, I don't think it affects us at this

685
00:31:28.500 --> 00:31:29.940
point, but it's certainly going to...

686
00:31:29.940 --> 00:31:30.960
It's the 1st one, isn't it?

687
00:31:31.079 --> 00:31:31.680
The 1st one.

688
00:31:31.740 --> 00:31:34.259
And so we're not aware of these changes that he wants to make.

689
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:38.640
I think the impact is going to be much felt next year as opposed

690
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:39.119
to this year.

691
00:31:39.180 --> 00:31:44.700
Apparently, he tried to pull the whole one regular costume in

692
00:31:44.700 --> 00:31:47.220
every story on Lala, and she just wasn't having it.

693
00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:50.819
Well, I mean, it's obvious, you know, she's still got in her

694
00:31:50.819 --> 00:31:54.240
contract, her, you know, her budget for her, her frocks

695
00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:54.539
everywhere.

696
00:31:54.599 --> 00:31:55.319
Quite right, too.

697
00:31:55.380 --> 00:31:57.599
It's a carryover from the 1970s.

698
00:31:58.079 --> 00:32:04.079
But I think the thing is, too, that sometimes I think Matthew does

699
00:32:04.079 --> 00:32:04.440
a good job.

700
00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:08.160
And then in the next, well, I know you're playing it back, but

701
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:11.759
there's scenes where I think he is quite good, and then he'll do

702
00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:12.599
something that's awful.

703
00:32:12.660 --> 00:32:16.440
And then when he's around people, like if he's around Tom and

704
00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:18.599
Larder, I think he actually does lift to them.

705
00:32:18.660 --> 00:32:22.380
But when there's other guest actors in the show that are very good

706
00:32:22.380 --> 00:32:25.319
it shows up how inexperienced he is.

707
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:29.460
And Vash is the obvious example, which is a brother.

708
00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:31.259
Um, you know what?

709
00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:33.000
I wish we had Vosch instead.

710
00:32:33.059 --> 00:32:36.119
Simply because Vash...

711
00:32:36.119 --> 00:32:40.140
Vash is just a more interesting character, even we've put

712
00:32:40.140 --> 00:32:43.799
performance to one side, because, as I say, I'm, you know, I'm

713
00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:46.740
actually a fan of Adric, even when he's, even when Matthew

714
00:32:46.740 --> 00:32:49.319
Waterhouse's performance isn't good, I can see what he's trying to

715
00:32:49.319 --> 00:32:49.559
do.

716
00:32:49.559 --> 00:32:53.339
So, imagine if Adric had died in Vash's place, and Vash was

717
00:32:53.339 --> 00:32:56.579
already a very angry young man, who better to go with the doctor

718
00:32:56.579 --> 00:32:59.880
and then an angry young man who, over time, his character

719
00:32:59.880 --> 00:33:03.720
development would be the softening of that, and he wouldn't want

720
00:33:03.779 --> 00:33:06.180
smash up the universe anymore, and he'd make peace with it.

721
00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:09.539
And then, at the end, he'd sacrifice himself for a whole planet.

722
00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:12.539
But don't you think that that's what they wanted from Adric?

723
00:33:12.599 --> 00:33:15.240
I mean, the Adric has, you know, he's lost his brother.

724
00:33:15.299 --> 00:33:21.359
He has been outcast from society, you know, even, like everyone's

725
00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:21.960
scorning him.

726
00:33:22.019 --> 00:33:23.039
Like, he could have been there.

727
00:33:23.099 --> 00:33:27.480
Yeah, but unfortunately, and I blame the writers for this.

728
00:33:27.539 --> 00:33:28.980
Yeah, it just doesn't come across.

729
00:33:29.099 --> 00:33:32.220
You know, there's one reference to it in state of decay and one

730
00:33:32.220 --> 00:33:33.599
reference to it in time flight.

731
00:33:33.660 --> 00:33:36.359
But that's pretty much it.

732
00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:39.960
And I think the production team expected Matthew to bring that to

733
00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:41.400
the performance, but nobody told Matthew.

734
00:33:41.460 --> 00:33:44.579
And again, you know, he's not going to go around questioning

735
00:33:44.579 --> 00:33:45.720
people and questioning things.

736
00:33:45.779 --> 00:33:48.420
Richard Willis is so good.

737
00:33:48.420 --> 00:33:48.779
He is good.

738
00:33:48.839 --> 00:33:54.119
He's too tall to be the companion, the my companion who's playing

739
00:33:54.119 --> 00:33:54.599
a child.

740
00:33:54.660 --> 00:33:56.220
I think that's actually the problem.

741
00:33:56.339 --> 00:33:57.900
Well, he is a few years older.

742
00:33:57.960 --> 00:33:59.880
You know, he is about 21, 22.

743
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:00.839
Too tall.

744
00:34:00.900 --> 00:34:02.099
He's too tall.

745
00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:04.920
And his butt does go on trial in episode three.

746
00:34:04.980 --> 00:34:05.880
I'd just like to tell you that.

747
00:34:05.940 --> 00:34:07.200
Really?

748
00:34:07.259 --> 00:34:10.199
Well, they had the trial and it's the butt shot.

749
00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:13.559
Once you see it, you can't unsee it people.

750
00:34:13.619 --> 00:34:15.179
Probably don't want to unsee it.

751
00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:18.239
What was that you said before we started recording, Nathan?

752
00:34:18.300 --> 00:34:19.440
I can't remember.

753
00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:21.480
Gayest Doctor Who story. really?

754
00:34:21.480 --> 00:34:24.179
So we have Peter Grimwave is gay.

755
00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:26.579
We have Alan Rowe, who's gay.

756
00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:28.260
We have James Brie, who's gay.

757
00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:30.179
We have Matthew Waterhouse, who's gay.

758
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:33.900
Richard Willis Vash is surprisingly not.

759
00:34:33.960 --> 00:34:34.619
Right.

760
00:34:34.619 --> 00:34:37.500
Maybe that was wishful thinking.

761
00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:41.639
No, he's been married since 1960 something.

762
00:34:41.699 --> 00:34:42.599
Tylos?

763
00:34:42.659 --> 00:34:43.739
Tylos?

764
00:34:43.800 --> 00:34:46.440
He's terribly camped on the DVD extras.

765
00:34:46.500 --> 00:34:49.139
I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure Burton pattern is gay.

766
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:49.679
Oh my goodness.

767
00:34:49.739 --> 00:34:51.960
Richard Willis played Vash and Doctor Who Full Circle.

768
00:34:52.019 --> 00:34:54.239
He's the ex-husband of Kate and Mara.

769
00:34:54.300 --> 00:34:56.039
And June Page.

770
00:34:56.099 --> 00:34:57.119
What the What?

771
00:34:57.179 --> 00:34:57.659
What?

772
00:34:57.719 --> 00:34:58.980
Well, you know what?

773
00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:00.960
He went on to marry Kate O'Mara.

774
00:35:01.019 --> 00:35:03.659
I don't think you could be any stranger than being married to Cato

775
00:35:03.659 --> 00:35:04.260
Maro.

776
00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:04.920
I know, frankly.

777
00:35:05.519 --> 00:35:08.280
Peter Allen married Liza Minnelli.

778
00:35:08.340 --> 00:35:09.059
This is very true.

779
00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:20.460
So So his ex-husband of June Page, who played...

780
00:35:20.820 --> 00:35:22.139
And they got married, Keanu, right?

781
00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:22.980
Okay, well, that's nice.

782
00:35:22.980 --> 00:35:24.780
She's quite, I think she's quite good. think she's good.

783
00:35:24.840 --> 00:35:25.800
Yeah, she's very natural.

784
00:35:25.860 --> 00:35:29.039
She's like Janetellis last year.

785
00:35:29.099 --> 00:35:30.780
Yeah, yeah, you know, Tika.

786
00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:35.219
I mean, Tika was a bit more annoying, theatrical.

787
00:35:35.699 --> 00:35:38.639
You know, she was very projecting.

788
00:35:38.699 --> 00:35:41.940
But at the same time, she was projecting because she had this

789
00:35:41.940 --> 00:35:43.559
unshakeable faith in Seth.

790
00:35:43.619 --> 00:35:49.019
You know, so it was realism contextually in this very unrealistic

791
00:35:49.019 --> 00:35:49.440
story.

792
00:35:49.500 --> 00:35:53.940
Whereas Kira is far more realistic, if you like.

793
00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:54.900
And it's good.

794
00:35:54.960 --> 00:35:57.480
And then we've got Bernard Pattern or...

795
00:35:57.539 --> 00:35:58.559
Isn't he the bug-eyed one?

796
00:35:58.619 --> 00:35:58.980
Yes.

797
00:35:59.039 --> 00:35:59.280
Yes.

798
00:35:59.340 --> 00:36:02.219
I think it's so sad how he gets killed.

799
00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:03.840
I think that's really kind of terrible.

800
00:36:03.900 --> 00:36:07.260
I think they should have kept some of the crummy extras from, you

801
00:36:07.260 --> 00:36:10.559
know, before they all scarpered back to the starliner and had them

802
00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:10.800
killed.

803
00:36:10.860 --> 00:36:12.659
I think it's sad that they killed Tylos.

804
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:17.400
A really bad crummy extra who is holding back Kira in part three.

805
00:36:17.460 --> 00:36:18.059
Look out for that.

806
00:36:18.119 --> 00:36:19.559
It's just terrible.

807
00:36:19.619 --> 00:36:20.280
Terrible.

808
00:36:20.340 --> 00:36:26.820
Poor old Tylos has an aged well if you watch the documentary.

809
00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:28.199
He seems funny though.

810
00:36:28.260 --> 00:36:29.460
I liked him a lot.

811
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:32.159
In the documentary he's worth, he's good.

812
00:36:32.219 --> 00:36:34.380
Looks like some bald parrot.

813
00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:35.820
The dobby doctor.

814
00:36:36.119 --> 00:36:39.300
Whereas Matthew Waterhouse was aged very well.

815
00:36:39.360 --> 00:36:40.860
Very distinguished.

816
00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:41.519
He has.

817
00:36:41.579 --> 00:36:44.460
Look, I think a lot of the, like George Baker is Logan.

818
00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:45.360
What has he done?

819
00:36:45.420 --> 00:36:46.139
He's been in other things.

820
00:36:46.199 --> 00:36:47.400
Oh, everything.

821
00:36:47.579 --> 00:36:50.460
He's been in Honour Majesty's Secret Service, and you can download

822
00:36:50.460 --> 00:36:52.800
the commentary for that from bondfinger.com.

823
00:36:52.860 --> 00:36:54.179
Is Hillary Bray?

824
00:36:54.239 --> 00:36:56.460
He's Hillary Bray, and is he in another bond?

825
00:36:57.059 --> 00:37:00.599
He's like Inspector Wexford or something incredibly famous and

826
00:37:00.599 --> 00:37:03.000
will look like dunderheads if we don't mention it.

827
00:37:03.059 --> 00:37:04.920
Yeah, no, he's terrifically famous for that.

828
00:37:04.980 --> 00:37:06.480
His TV is George Baker.

829
00:37:06.539 --> 00:37:09.360
He also plays Tiberius in I Claudius.

830
00:37:09.420 --> 00:37:12.300
And he died in 2011.

831
00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:16.380
And of course, James Bre has been in the show and will be in it

832
00:37:16.380 --> 00:37:16.559
again.

833
00:37:16.619 --> 00:37:19.139
Yeah, I think he doesn't he doesn't...

834
00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:19.739
Yeah, good job.

835
00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:22.500
I think I like all. normally terrible, isn't he?

836
00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:24.000
So this is probably his best performance.

837
00:37:24.599 --> 00:37:28.679
Yeah, I think so as well, because he, the scenes where he's the

838
00:37:28.679 --> 00:37:30.599
decider, and he's on. very pompous.

839
00:37:30.659 --> 00:37:33.059
And that scene where he discovers the secret.

840
00:37:33.119 --> 00:37:34.860
Yeah, no, he does proper act.

841
00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:39.119
Yeah, he does proper acting and he gets he gets the big reveal

842
00:37:39.119 --> 00:37:39.539
line.

843
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:42.300
Like we were talking about Pangle's big reveal line a couple of

844
00:37:42.300 --> 00:37:42.719
years ago.

845
00:37:42.780 --> 00:37:44.039
He gets the big reveal live.

846
00:37:44.099 --> 00:37:47.039
We can never return to Teraden because we have never been there.

847
00:37:47.099 --> 00:37:49.920
Whereas Richard and I can't return to Teraden because of something

848
00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:51.360
we did with a marshman and pinball.

849
00:37:51.420 --> 00:37:54.659
Yeah, I like all of all of the deciders.

850
00:37:54.719 --> 00:37:55.619
Dexeter.

851
00:37:55.679 --> 00:37:57.239
Gareth, which is the one that...

852
00:37:57.239 --> 00:38:00.360
Gareth is Alan Rowe. from Skin Sale.

853
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:01.380
Dr. Evan.

854
00:38:01.380 --> 00:38:02.760
I could never remember his name.

855
00:38:02.820 --> 00:38:05.699
Mentally to me, he was decider skin sale the entire time.

856
00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:10.860
But I also really like Norman Bacon, who plays the Marshchild.

857
00:38:10.920 --> 00:38:11.880
Yeah, yeah.

858
00:38:11.940 --> 00:38:15.300
I think part of the reason the marshmen are so successful, and I

859
00:38:15.300 --> 00:38:15.599
agree.

860
00:38:15.659 --> 00:38:16.860
You can see seams and whatnot.

861
00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:18.960
A bit like, but a bit like the draconians.

862
00:38:19.019 --> 00:38:19.739
You've got the eye.

863
00:38:19.860 --> 00:38:22.980
And you can see the eye, and that's where the performance comes

864
00:38:22.980 --> 00:38:25.199
through, especially in the marsh child, and that beautiful scene

865
00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:26.820
where he's trying to get through the screen.

866
00:38:26.940 --> 00:38:28.199
It's so heartbreaking.

867
00:38:28.260 --> 00:38:32.880
It's all because he trusts his doctor, which is, you know, Dylan

868
00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:33.900
and Keanu.

869
00:38:33.960 --> 00:38:35.159
You need to watch out.

870
00:38:35.579 --> 00:38:39.539
Yeah, he puts his hand through the screen with Tom's face on it

871
00:38:39.539 --> 00:38:40.619
and gets electrocuted.

872
00:38:40.679 --> 00:38:42.360
It's a great performance, isn't it?

873
00:38:42.420 --> 00:38:43.619
And the sound is really good.

874
00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:47.820
And putting Tom up against a child is a no-brainer.

875
00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:51.179
Like, why has it never been done before in all this time because

876
00:38:51.179 --> 00:38:54.300
he behaves the way that Tom behaved with a child.

877
00:38:54.360 --> 00:38:58.800
He was charming and sweet and funny and, you know, it should have

878
00:38:58.800 --> 00:38:59.519
just happened all the time.

879
00:38:59.579 --> 00:39:00.840
It's so heartbreaking.

880
00:39:00.900 --> 00:39:02.760
Yeah, whole thing. it really is.

881
00:39:02.820 --> 00:39:05.519
And Tom's performance really sells it as well.

882
00:39:05.579 --> 00:39:08.760
And his outrage at Dexteter.

883
00:39:08.820 --> 00:39:10.019
Yeah, it's wonderful.

884
00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:14.039
And Tom himself was in an interesting place personally at this

885
00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:17.820
point because he and Lala were getting back together.

886
00:39:17.880 --> 00:39:22.320
He'd recovered from the pretty much he'd been ill the whole season

887
00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:25.559
up till this and we'll see next week, which was filmed previously

888
00:39:25.559 --> 00:39:28.079
that he had to get his hair permed because it uncurled.

889
00:39:28.139 --> 00:39:29.639
He was so unwell.

890
00:39:29.699 --> 00:39:30.420
He was so unwell.

891
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:32.219
And it's never been confirmed what it was.

892
00:39:32.280 --> 00:39:36.900
Some people say it was some liver damage from excessive alcohol.

893
00:39:36.960 --> 00:39:38.760
And I think we can say that.

894
00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:40.019
That's plausible.

895
00:39:40.079 --> 00:39:40.559
Yeah.

896
00:39:40.619 --> 00:39:44.039
So, yeah, Tom is in the position where he's recovering from an

897
00:39:44.039 --> 00:39:44.699
illness.

898
00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:49.320
He and Laura are back on together, but as we know, it wasn't going

899
00:39:49.320 --> 00:39:50.159
to last forever.

900
00:39:50.219 --> 00:39:53.159
And also, it was during the production of this story that he

901
00:39:53.159 --> 00:39:53.820
decided to leave.

902
00:39:54.119 --> 00:39:58.139
And so I think there's 2 ways you can look at it, that he's

903
00:39:58.139 --> 00:40:01.079
putting in a really good performance because he knows he's going

904
00:40:01.079 --> 00:40:01.679
to be done soon.

905
00:40:01.739 --> 00:40:06.239
Or there's a certain relief, because the things that were going

906
00:40:06.239 --> 00:40:08.340
wrong for him, because he started off with a really good working

907
00:40:08.340 --> 00:40:11.099
relationship with John Nathan Turner, which deteriorated because

908
00:40:11.099 --> 00:40:14.880
Tom could sort of get what he wanted out of Graham Williams.

909
00:40:14.940 --> 00:40:18.539
Whereas John Nathan Turner would just put his foot down and say, No

910
00:40:18.539 --> 00:40:20.159
we're doing, we need to modernise the program.

911
00:40:20.219 --> 00:40:21.960
We're doing it this way, and Tom didn't like that.

912
00:40:22.019 --> 00:40:26.159
And Tom says in interviews now, you know, I was insufferable and I

913
00:40:26.159 --> 00:40:29.340
couldn't see beyond me because I'd done it for 7 years.

914
00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:32.940
So it's either that or it's the relief.

915
00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:35.099
It's knowing that, you know what?

916
00:40:35.159 --> 00:40:37.619
I'm going to be out of this situation soon.

917
00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:38.940
I've just recovered from being ill.

918
00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:41.760
I have the person I love back in my life.

919
00:40:41.820 --> 00:40:46.320
And as much as I'm sad to be going, I don't have to worry about it

920
00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:46.559
anymore.

921
00:40:46.619 --> 00:40:51.840
I think leaving a job freeze you up, and I think I think that's

922
00:40:51.840 --> 00:40:55.139
evident, and I think with Lara as well in her final performances.

923
00:40:55.199 --> 00:40:56.340
Let's have to say this.

924
00:40:56.460 --> 00:41:01.500
I don't dislike Tom's costume in this story.

925
00:41:01.559 --> 00:41:04.380
I'm not in love with it, but I don't dislike it.

926
00:41:04.440 --> 00:41:07.079
So is this a continuing tale?

927
00:41:07.139 --> 00:41:09.539
Are you going to be in love with it by Lagopolis?

928
00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:11.039
We shall see.

929
00:41:11.099 --> 00:41:13.320
I really like the tortoiseshell waistcoat.

930
00:41:13.380 --> 00:41:15.780
In fact, I like the costume when he's not wearing the scarf with

931
00:41:15.780 --> 00:41:17.699
it and perhaps when he's not wearing the jacket.

932
00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:21.059
I find that really weird seeing him not wear the scarf in these

933
00:41:21.059 --> 00:41:21.300
stories.

934
00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:22.260
His neck is so long.

935
00:41:22.380 --> 00:41:24.539
It's like he hasn't had that before.

936
00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:26.460
Yeah, it's just very off-putting.

937
00:41:26.519 --> 00:41:30.780
Yeah, I think it's also that whatever illness he had, he lost a

938
00:41:30.780 --> 00:41:31.440
lot of weight.

939
00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:33.659
That's kind of craggy looking.

940
00:41:33.719 --> 00:41:36.300
Yeah, that's why people think it may have been his liver.

941
00:41:36.360 --> 00:41:40.380
But, you know, whatever it was, that's part of what has aged him.

942
00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:43.860
Not everything in the story is fantastic.

943
00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:47.280
Like, I mean, I think there's some pathetic running from side to

944
00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:48.960
side in the TARDIS and it's picked up.

945
00:41:49.019 --> 00:41:50.880
Oh, yeah, that's dismal, isn't it?

946
00:41:50.940 --> 00:41:52.980
And the horrible glowing fake spiders.

947
00:41:53.039 --> 00:41:55.739
Like, they actually freak me out, those spiders, but then they're

948
00:41:55.739 --> 00:41:56.519
wibbly wobbly.

949
00:41:56.639 --> 00:41:58.079
You must be better at that.

950
00:41:58.139 --> 00:41:58.800
Oh, no.

951
00:41:58.860 --> 00:42:01.380
In fact, now that I think it back and picture those spiders in

952
00:42:01.380 --> 00:42:03.480
planet of the spiders, they're much worse, aren't they?

953
00:42:03.539 --> 00:42:07.320
The tardest thing, like they don't shoot the marshmen.

954
00:42:07.380 --> 00:42:09.900
They obviously can't get the marshmen to lift it up, so they do it

955
00:42:09.900 --> 00:42:12.300
from inside the that thing.

956
00:42:12.360 --> 00:42:17.940
But can the TARDIS really be 5 times 10 to the 6 kilograms in

957
00:42:17.940 --> 00:42:18.539
mass?

958
00:42:18.599 --> 00:42:20.880
That's 5000 tons.

959
00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:24.119
How would they lift it up later in King's Demons?

960
00:42:24.179 --> 00:42:25.199
That's crazy, Tom.

961
00:42:25.260 --> 00:42:25.739
Yeah, yeah.

962
00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:27.179
That's a continuity problem.

963
00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:32.280
Either that or Roman's just making it up.

964
00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:34.619
Maybe it's her wardrobe.

965
00:42:34.980 --> 00:42:39.119
Actually, they, well, spoiler alert, but in a few stories time

966
00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:41.880
they're going to jettison Romana's room and that frees up, that

967
00:42:41.880 --> 00:42:43.559
frees it up. frees up a lot of space.

968
00:42:44.099 --> 00:42:48.000
Especially when she gets rid of all of her stuff from Tahiti.

969
00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:51.599
Now, poor canine.

970
00:42:51.659 --> 00:42:53.639
Oh, yeah, he gets decapitated.

971
00:42:53.699 --> 00:42:55.139
It's decapitated in this one.

972
00:42:55.199 --> 00:42:57.119
So if we I'm not going to blow him up in the 1st one.

973
00:42:57.179 --> 00:42:59.039
We may as well like knock off his head in this one.

974
00:42:59.159 --> 00:43:01.260
It's really savage too.

975
00:43:01.380 --> 00:43:06.000
I think it's quite clever because JNT knows that from the

976
00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:08.639
beginning of this series, he's writing out Romana and K9.

977
00:43:08.820 --> 00:43:10.860
He doesn't know he's writing out Tom, but he knows he's writing

978
00:43:10.860 --> 00:43:12.420
out Lala and K9.

979
00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:19.079
So, Lala at the end of Meglos gets the impetus to leave, which is

980
00:43:19.079 --> 00:43:21.480
otherwise she's going to end up back on Gallifrey, but that

981
00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:22.860
doesn't pay off for a few more stories.

982
00:43:22.920 --> 00:43:25.559
K9 gets damaged in each story.

983
00:43:25.619 --> 00:43:28.139
You know, he's blown up in the leisure hive.

984
00:43:28.199 --> 00:43:29.760
His batteries run down in Meglos.

985
00:43:29.820 --> 00:43:31.320
He gets his head knocked off in this one.

986
00:43:31.380 --> 00:43:36.539
It seems to be a very canny thing of introducing the idea to the

987
00:43:36.539 --> 00:43:39.840
audience that these characters. 1st of all, are not invulnerable

988
00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:42.360
and are not unmoveable.

989
00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:48.119
So that when they do go, It's kind of weird in that instead of

990
00:43:48.119 --> 00:43:49.380
getting the shock when they leave.

991
00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:54.480
It gets gently introduced to you that these characters might go.

992
00:43:54.539 --> 00:43:58.380
And it's been attempted with other Doctor Who characters to lesser

993
00:43:58.380 --> 00:43:58.739
effects.

994
00:43:58.800 --> 00:44:03.599
So, for instance, the big one where I think it fails. is with Amy

995
00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:07.440
and Rory, who, you know, gets so many great leaving scenes, and

996
00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:11.219
then just this horrible, horrible end that they get in Angels of

997
00:44:11.219 --> 00:44:11.699
Manhattan.

998
00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:13.980
The leaving scene they get in the God complex is perfect.

999
00:44:14.039 --> 00:44:15.179
Yeah I like it a lot.

1000
00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:15.719
Yeah.

1001
00:44:15.719 --> 00:44:16.860
They should have gone then.

1002
00:44:16.980 --> 00:44:21.300
But I think this is, I think this is a lot more effective because

1003
00:44:21.300 --> 00:44:23.760
for reasons we'll discuss in 2 weeks.

1004
00:44:23.820 --> 00:44:27.059
It actually feeds into the character reasons for leaving.

1005
00:44:27.239 --> 00:44:31.679
Yeah, I mean, obviously a companion leaving is a very emotional

1006
00:44:31.679 --> 00:44:33.719
thing for a lot of the younger audience.

1007
00:44:33.780 --> 00:44:38.699
And whether you realise it or not, subliminally, they're planting

1008
00:44:38.699 --> 00:44:40.559
this in your head that it could happen.

1009
00:44:40.619 --> 00:44:44.460
So when it becomes more obvious, although you're upset, you're not

1010
00:44:44.460 --> 00:44:45.840
completely and utterly distraught.

1011
00:44:45.900 --> 00:44:46.440
Yeah.

1012
00:44:46.500 --> 00:44:51.960
Because Romana, you know, 3 seasons, K9, 4 years, since his 1st

1013
00:44:51.960 --> 00:44:54.480
appearance, it's a very long, Oh, I think that's virtually longer

1014
00:44:54.480 --> 00:44:57.059
than any other companion, you know?

1015
00:44:57.119 --> 00:45:01.440
So it actually is a clever little ploy, but also I think it also

1016
00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:06.599
ties back into the, um, more sort of um, soap opery sort of

1017
00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:09.300
element that that has been introduced.

1018
00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:11.280
A lot of things go on in this.

1019
00:45:11.340 --> 00:45:14.940
I mean, these are the most changes in cast that we've had in a

1020
00:45:14.940 --> 00:45:16.019
single season, isn't it?

1021
00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:18.059
Apart from the long 60s ones, maybe.

1022
00:45:18.119 --> 00:45:21.360
Yeah, since they flail about it. season four, yeah.

1023
00:45:21.420 --> 00:45:21.599
Yeah.

1024
00:45:21.659 --> 00:45:26.219
But the, yeah, everyone leaving and coming and telling a sort of

1025
00:45:26.219 --> 00:45:27.539
longer story.

1026
00:45:28.260 --> 00:45:32.699
I do like the little comedy bit with the canine's head and Romana

1027
00:45:32.699 --> 00:45:35.639
that the doctor. that goes through and I think that's quite nice.

1028
00:45:35.880 --> 00:45:38.039
In episode four.

1029
00:45:38.099 --> 00:45:41.820
I think Vash's death is very quick.

1030
00:45:41.880 --> 00:45:43.500
I think it's a bit too sort of.

1031
00:45:43.619 --> 00:45:45.659
You don't want it to be protracted though, do you?

1032
00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:46.739
That would have been a bit upsetting.

1033
00:45:46.800 --> 00:45:50.099
I mean, it is pretty good, and he's good in it, you know.

1034
00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:52.019
And Matthew Waterhouse is good in it.

1035
00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:53.519
I think.

1036
00:45:53.639 --> 00:45:53.940
Okay.

1037
00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:55.440
I find it.

1038
00:45:55.500 --> 00:45:58.679
You know, I know his reaction afterwards when he picks up the

1039
00:45:58.679 --> 00:45:59.039
belt.

1040
00:45:59.099 --> 00:46:01.019
Some people might look at that and say, oh, you know, he's not

1041
00:46:01.019 --> 00:46:01.380
doing anything.

1042
00:46:01.440 --> 00:46:05.460
But I'm like, actually, no, he's numb with shock.

1043
00:46:05.460 --> 00:46:09.179
And Matthew actually plays out rather well.

1044
00:46:09.239 --> 00:46:10.739
Yeah, he's quite good at num.

1045
00:46:10.860 --> 00:46:12.719
He should have stuck with it.

1046
00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:15.599
Oh, dear.

1047
00:46:15.659 --> 00:46:18.300
What do you think of the main set with all the system files?

1048
00:46:18.360 --> 00:46:22.440
I think they're a bit colourful and a bit, you know, paper thin

1049
00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:23.460
when they're going through them all.

1050
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:25.019
I mean, it looks good though.

1051
00:46:25.079 --> 00:46:26.280
I think that set looks good.

1052
00:46:26.340 --> 00:46:29.760
And I do like, you know, the symbolism of the marshmen coming in

1053
00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:33.239
and, you know, ripping up the system files.

1054
00:46:33.300 --> 00:46:34.320
Yeah, but I mean?

1055
00:46:34.380 --> 00:46:37.559
But there never seems to be quite enough people in that set for

1056
00:46:37.559 --> 00:46:39.000
when they have the difference.

1057
00:46:39.059 --> 00:46:40.019
Yeah, like the big announcement.

1058
00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:43.500
But they do cut away to like the corridors full of people.

1059
00:46:43.559 --> 00:46:46.440
I know they're trying really hard to use all their extras from

1060
00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:50.940
location in various things, but it just looks a little sparsely

1061
00:46:50.940 --> 00:46:51.300
populated.

1062
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:52.920
The corridors are very liberator.

1063
00:46:52.980 --> 00:46:54.179
Yeah, they are.

1064
00:46:54.239 --> 00:46:54.960
They look good.

1065
00:46:55.019 --> 00:46:55.800
They're interesting.

1066
00:46:55.860 --> 00:46:59.280
For some reason, the show has learned to do interesting looking

1067
00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:00.539
corridors in the last year.

1068
00:47:00.599 --> 00:47:04.139
And it's all just by not having them being square.

1069
00:47:04.260 --> 00:47:04.920
Yeah.

1070
00:47:05.039 --> 00:47:09.059
Oh, I'm painting the walls something other than brown or, you

1071
00:47:09.059 --> 00:47:09.300
know.

1072
00:47:09.360 --> 00:47:10.739
Well, they're beige.

1073
00:47:11.099 --> 00:47:16.500
I've commented, like, the leisure high, very quick ending, and I

1074
00:47:16.500 --> 00:47:18.900
can't Megloss wraps up.

1075
00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:20.280
Yeah, frequently.

1076
00:47:20.280 --> 00:47:21.659
You said it was rushed, I think.

1077
00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:25.260
Here, again, it's like, oh, yes, there's a big green button, pushed

1078
00:47:25.260 --> 00:47:28.559
that, you know, you're off, and then they're back in the TARTIS

1079
00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:32.340
and canine seems to be repaired in the quickest time ever.

1080
00:47:32.460 --> 00:47:35.280
Like, it's all just...

1081
00:47:35.340 --> 00:47:37.619
Last time they had to keep repeat repairing them over and over

1082
00:47:37.619 --> 00:47:37.800
again.

1083
00:47:37.860 --> 00:47:40.920
Yeah, but I'm just saying, like, I'm just finding a bit with

1084
00:47:40.920 --> 00:47:44.880
watching some of these Christopher HBM scripted stories that the

1085
00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:47.639
endings of this, like, it's literally like, we've got 2 minutes.

1086
00:47:47.699 --> 00:47:48.599
We've got to get out of here.

1087
00:47:48.659 --> 00:47:49.860
Boom, boom, boom, boom.

1088
00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:51.960
Not say that I wanted to drag it out.

1089
00:47:52.019 --> 00:47:54.000
I just sometimes feel that.

1090
00:47:54.119 --> 00:47:57.059
Thing is, I do I actually kind of prefer that to some of the

1091
00:47:57.059 --> 00:47:58.619
Scooby-Doo endings we had last year.

1092
00:47:58.860 --> 00:48:02.400
Like the sort of, oh, we're back in the Tartars.

1093
00:48:02.460 --> 00:48:03.539
And I'm going to tell a joke.

1094
00:48:03.659 --> 00:48:05.039
Oh, yeah.

1095
00:48:05.159 --> 00:48:06.119
I don't know.

1096
00:48:06.179 --> 00:48:08.519
I just kind of feel like they've built up a relationship with

1097
00:48:08.519 --> 00:48:12.360
people and it's like I would just like a little 30 seconds.

1098
00:48:12.420 --> 00:48:16.079
Can we get that back from the beat shot in the leisure hive, you

1099
00:48:16.079 --> 00:48:16.260
know?

1100
00:48:16.320 --> 00:48:18.179
true, I suppose.

1101
00:48:18.239 --> 00:48:22.500
But look, I really enjoyed this and I really thank you for

1102
00:48:22.500 --> 00:48:28.500
explaining the evolution of the marshman to me.

1103
00:48:28.559 --> 00:48:32.400
It's really helped, and I think this is a really confident, solid

1104
00:48:32.400 --> 00:48:37.739
story, well-directed, and, you know, I have there's more to come.

1105
00:48:37.800 --> 00:48:39.599
I forgot to mention one thing.

1106
00:48:39.659 --> 00:48:40.619
This story.

1107
00:48:40.679 --> 00:48:46.199
I just want to add in that this story contains the original series

1108
00:48:46.199 --> 00:48:50.940
the single worst placed Doctor Who episode in chart history, which

1109
00:48:50.940 --> 00:48:55.920
is 107 TF on the charts, which is episode 2, which only got

1110
00:48:55.920 --> 00:48:57.780
3.700000 viewers.

1111
00:48:57.840 --> 00:48:59.760
Which I think is such a shame.

1112
00:48:59.880 --> 00:49:01.619
It's doomed.

1113
00:49:01.679 --> 00:49:02.519
Whole show's doomed.

1114
00:49:02.579 --> 00:49:04.500
Everything is ruined forever.

1115
00:49:16.860 --> 00:49:20.460
Well, ladies and gentlemen, as you enjoy your trip on the

1116
00:49:20.460 --> 00:49:25.320
starliner back to Pterodon, we will see you next week. on the

1117
00:49:25.320 --> 00:49:28.380
unnamed planet of the three who rule for state of decay.

1118
00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:31.320
Until then, please find us online at flightthroughentirety.com

1119
00:49:31.320 --> 00:49:34.679
flight through entirety on Facebook, and iTunes and FTE podcast on

1120
00:49:34.679 --> 00:49:35.099
Twitter.

1121
00:49:35.159 --> 00:49:37.619
Please retweet, share, and review.

1122
00:49:37.679 --> 00:49:40.079
It's the only way we get new followers.

1123
00:49:40.199 --> 00:49:42.599
So that would be absolutely wonderful to get this podcast out to

1124
00:49:42.599 --> 00:49:43.800
as many people as possible.

1125
00:49:43.920 --> 00:49:47.579
For those of you of a James Bond bent, If you would like to hear

1126
00:49:47.579 --> 00:49:50.940
us talk all about George Baker impersonating George Lazenby, or is

1127
00:49:50.940 --> 00:49:51.599
it the other way around?

1128
00:49:51.659 --> 00:49:55.019
You can find our commentary for Honour Majesty's Secret Service

1129
00:49:55.019 --> 00:49:58.980
and a variety of other bond films on Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger

1130
00:49:58.980 --> 00:50:02.400
cast on Twitter, and Bondfinger on Facebook, and iTunes.

1131
00:50:02.460 --> 00:50:07.320
Until next time, may none of your river fruit contain spiders.

1132
00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:08.940
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1133
00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:09.659
Good night.

1134
00:50:09.719 --> 00:50:10.860
See you soon.

1135
00:50:16.920 --> 00:50:20.039
That was Flight Through Entirety with Todd B.L.B. Nathan Bottomley

1136
00:50:20.039 --> 00:50:20.820
and Brendan Jones.

1137
00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:22.860
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1138
00:50:23.099 --> 00:50:28.079
This episode, he swims in a very special way, was recorded on

1139
00:50:28.079 --> 00:50:29.099
February 20th.

1140
00:50:29.159 --> 00:50:31.619
The next episode will be released on April 24.

1141
00:50:32.400 --> 00:50:36.780
I tried gel electrophoresis once, but I didn't end up with teeth

1142
00:50:36.780 --> 00:50:38.099
as nice as Lulla Ward.

1143
00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:46.619
You know, I had there's more to come.

1144
00:50:47.880 --> 00:50:50.219
Next week's a dumpster fire.