WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 16:13:17

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast Held Together by people just being

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terribly critical of one another.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Todd.

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And we're going into a Johnny Burns debut script for the series

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with the keeper of Tracon.

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And this one is mine.

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I put my hand.

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I absolutely and utterly adore this story.

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It's my favourite of the season, and I'm always liked it ever

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since I was a kid.

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I considered a few other stories, like, I considered 4 to Doomsday

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which I like, and but it's got a few problems.

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I considered attack at the Cybern, which I like, but it's got a

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few problems.

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And I considered the mysterious punished, which I really like, but

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it's got a few problems.

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So I thought I'd go to this one, which I really like.

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And you know what?

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It's not the best directed of the season, although I think John

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Black is really trying, is the director is really trying hard.

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Um, It's not the best script of the season, um, maybe because the

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mask has to be shoehorned into it.

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But I think the performances by the majority of the cast, I think

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the actual cast, the costuming and the set design really, really

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sell this as a piece of television.

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They're spectacular, aren't they?

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Yeah.

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And, you know, the costumer, Amy Roberts?

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The design attorney Burrow was not.

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He could not get the set design he wanted.

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So there was this up and coming designer in the BBC department.

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And it's one of these things I talked about in previous podcasts

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with the serendipity of this season, things happen quite by

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accident.

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And often you get somebody new and enthusiastic, and here, the

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design of, you know, the keepers in a sanctum and the grove and

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the, just everything.

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I just think I just think it just works so beautifully, so, so

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beautifully.

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But I guess, I mean, we'll start, you know, right at the beginning

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where we've got a doctor and a male companion in the TARDIS for

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the 1st time since, um, what, uh, wheel in space, would it be?

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Yes, yeah, yeah.

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Absolutely.

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So that's 1968.

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So 13 years.

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I don't like that opening scene, can I say?

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I think we've had Andrew and Tom have been largely separated from

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each other.

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So either Tom and Lala have headed off and Andrix had his own plot

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or Tom's headed off and Lala and Andrik have had their own plot.

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And so this is the 1st time we get Tom and Edrick together.

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I think they work quite well.

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Don't you I do.

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And one of the things I love about these final 80% of the season

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is that I think that it gives the character of Adrik, the

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opportunity to be with the doctor.

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It gives Matthew a bit of, I don't know, stability or the fact

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that he is the most senior other senior person in the TARDIS

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crew.

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And I think, He's much more comfortable is the word I'm going to

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use throughout these 2 stories, and I think he probably delivers

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his best performance in the next story.

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Here, I think he's still finding his feet a bit through some

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scenes, but at other times, I think he's quite confident.

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I mean, he's never going to be great, and, you know, he's always

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awkward in his movements and that sort of thing, but I really do

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feel that these back eight episodes of this season are some of the

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best stuff that he does on the show.

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He's not being required to do things that he's terrible at.

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Like, you know, the conflict that starts creeping into the

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Cloudest crew next season, which he's always just kind of terrible

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in.

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Yeah, and it's really interesting to see him acting with Sarah

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Sutton.

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They actually have a really good but low key chemistry together.

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Yeah.

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You know, whereas...

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Well, that's the thing.

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As we get further into the 80s, chemistry in John Nathan Turner's

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mind seems to be people shouting at each other.

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That's chemistry.

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Whereas these 2, they're really quite sweet together.

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It's like they've never had a friend their own age, who is as

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intelligent. as Evan, we know that's the case for Adric.

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Because we know his background.

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We don't see any other people on track and this is age.

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So they immediately take to each other and they sort of do science

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do science-y chat with each other and there's a little bit of

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banter of, oh, you don't know this, but I know this.

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They're very, very sweet together.

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Can we go back to that 1st scene, which I really don't like, which

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I think is a big step, and that's where the keeper of truck and

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flits in to do some exposition.

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But I love that.

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Yeah, I love the fact that this is the 1st time that somebody's

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come into the TARDIS.

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We're doing flashbacks using the TARDIS scanner.

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We've got that wonderful shot, which is a mimic of the shot back

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in the leisure hive where the camera goes through the scanner into

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the scene.

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And to me, this is the 1st time we're actually doing flashbacks in

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a Doctor Who story of this nature.

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I love the whole thing about the keeper.

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You've got the keeper, you've got you've got the consoles, you've

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got the proctors, you've got the society, you've got all the

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different planets working together.

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I imagine that there were other keeper cabinets on the other

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planets. the place, with other consoles for those planets, but

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Trucken is the major one.

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I was dreaming this as a kid.

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Like the whole society and what was going to happen and all this

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sort of thing.

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I just inspired my imagination.

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I think it's really strong.

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I do think that the result is you do get a place that has very

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clear rules that you can understand really well, but it is, like, I

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think it's just a little bit leaden, and you imagine if it was to

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happen now, what you would do is you would start seeing the world

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and having it shown to you and not just explain to you by

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exposition guy.

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And then you would go 10 years later or 5 years later.

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Yeah, that's a good point.

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But I think that is the point.

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In 1981, this hadn't really been done.

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No.

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So the idea, of course, you know, films and TV have always had

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what we now call info dumps, sort of expositional dialogue.

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This is, at the very least, an interesting way of doing it because

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the keeper could just turn up and say, oh, we have this problem

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doctor.

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Please come and help us, which is kind of what Zaster does in

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Meglos.

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But this is a lot more interesting because we see that history.

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And I think that's something that's very much coming from Johnny

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Byrne.

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Johnny Byrne always tries in his mind, he always has a backstory

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to his stuff.

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Because Johnny for science fiction fans is probably most famous

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for being script editor, one of the script writers of space 1999.

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And quite a few episodes of Early Space 1999, start with an alien

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somehow turning up on the base and giving a bit of exposition.

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And maybe not at the beginning, like episodes like Alpha Child

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episodes like Earthbound, you know.

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I think it's more successful here because in Space 1999.

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You've got 20 minutes of Barbara Bain looking at the camera saying

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but is it safe?

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Whereas this, you have wonderful banter between Tom Baker and

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Dennis Carey, you know, which is adorable.

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Todds exploding.

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I don't say something about...

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His space 999.

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It's sort of like you're trying to sell Johnny Byrne on the back

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of that.

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I guess it is season one, which is better than season two. don't

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know.

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Season 2 goes to Hail. awful.

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Going back, you were trying to make a point about.

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Oh, no, no, I just said that I thought that the exposition and

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maybe I'm being unfair, but certainly by modern standards, it's

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kind of leaden and it slows things down.

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And are we to understand that they arrive on the wedding day?

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No.

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So they...

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Oh, maybe they run after the wedding.

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Yeah, just after the wedding.

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Because then we get the scene if all the stars were silver and if

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I were a Shakespeare play, I couldn't be happier than I am right

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now.

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And that's not in the flashback, is it?

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No, that's actually happening.

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So I think in terms of chronology, if you like.

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The keeper turns up to bless the wedding. sees Cassia with the

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reaction to TreeMass being put forward and then summons the doctor

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because he's like, hold on, you know, this isn't, this isn't how

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Trunkins react to so great normal. skip down on the reception.

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Yeah, exactly. get the doctor to come and then the doctor

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arrives.

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It's really interesting, like, again, this is a story where a

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character knows about the doctor.

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This is something that's beginning to happen more and more in 80s

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Doctor 2, which I don't particularly love.

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Yeah, right?

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But it's there and at the moment it hasn't happened too often

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which is perfectly okay.

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Obviously, we get to see Melka appear in the flashbacks with young

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Cassia.

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Which is all very convenient.

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That's one thing that, you know, that, that, that, that, Mel could

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assigns to manifest itself by just descending rather than um

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realising, of course, that would give the whole plot away.

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I mean, it's the one thing now that when I do watch it is that, you

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know, the doctor is aware of the energy readings of Melker and is

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suspicious, but I think it takes him far, far too long to sort of

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come to the realisation that this is the master.

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So, the master has allowed himself to get trapped because the word

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melka is the Tranken's name for a phenomenon that happened.

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Yeah, fly fract and honey.

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Yeah, so these things, so the masters allowed himself to do this

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he's been in the TARDIS trapped for like 20 years or something

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like since Cassia was a little girl.

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You see, to me, when I read it, I don't necessarily see seeing him

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as being trapped per se.

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That's the track and perspective that these things have been...

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Oh, yeah.

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So he, for all purposes, realises that the keeper's time is

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drawing to an end.

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So he's waiting for it.

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But why wouldn't he just then materialise, you know, 3 minutes

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before the keeper's going to drop dead to take over the source

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because he's got a plan, his traps within traps for castra valver

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and logopolis in case it all goes horribly wrong over the next 2

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stories.

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Am I going off on a complete...

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No, because I don't think he's developed those planes yet.

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He does say to the doctor later, you will find mobility, immobility

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and durable.

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Do you know what I mean?

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So it does suggest that he has been trapped.

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The Melka thing looks tremendous.

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The statue is great.

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Yeah, beautiful.

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When it moves, like, I actually like how it moves.

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I do too.

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I think it's a slightly dodgy on some of the leg movements, but

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the head and all that and I just think it's it's a great design

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and it really is quite freaking.

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It's surprising, I think when it starts moving as well.

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It does look like it's going to be a statue and then it walks up

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at the end of episode one.

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With the master's long, long, long game, if you like.

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I actually really, really like it because we kind of discussed in

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deadly assassin, the character had been weakened and he was just a

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raving, raving madman and what have you, who wanted to blow up the

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world because it's there.

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Whereas here, okay, so the master knows that the keeper's gonna

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die.

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But rather than materialise 3 minutes before, he's he's immobile

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he's trapped in his TARDIS.

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So he's like, right, I'm going to get there 20 years before and

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I'm going to build up this relationship with a person and then I'm

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going to use that person.

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The master's always used people, but instead, but, you know, he

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can't use this hypnotic power.

248
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And with the way evil works on track and that's apparently

249
00:12:10.919 --> 00:12:14.100
calcified, that it's understandable, that he can't just pop out of

250
00:12:14.100 --> 00:12:16.080
the TARTIS and go, zap, you're in my power now.

251
00:12:16.139 --> 00:12:20.759
No, he doesn't sort of hypnotise Cassia until the events of the

252
00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:23.700
story and even then it's just to strengthen the holes.

253
00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:25.799
He already has on her.

254
00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:30.659
But the thing is, he hasn't spoken to her before the story.

255
00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:34.919
His entire psychological hold on her, she's made herself.

256
00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:39.600
It's so evil and insidious and I love it.

257
00:12:39.659 --> 00:12:43.799
It's, it, it's, They decided they wanted to bring back the master

258
00:12:43.799 --> 00:12:47.519
and they bring, they look at, what are his greatest qualities, you

259
00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:49.919
know, not, not that he kills people.

260
00:12:49.980 --> 00:12:52.080
You know, that's that's the Daleks thing.

261
00:12:52.139 --> 00:12:55.139
Not that he's cold and logical, that's the sign dancing.

262
00:12:55.200 --> 00:12:59.399
No, his main quality is he can turn people against themselves.

263
00:12:59.580 --> 00:13:02.940
Just what you've said has made me love this story even more.

264
00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:07.259
It's something I never, never really thought about.

265
00:13:07.379 --> 00:13:09.299
The Master's a late edition, isn't it?

266
00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:12.360
Yes, Johnny Burner delivered the scripts and then he went off onto

267
00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:16.860
holiday and then Nathan Turner decided that the master would be

268
00:13:16.860 --> 00:13:17.879
great to bring the master back.

269
00:13:17.940 --> 00:13:20.399
Let's put him into this story and Bid had to then do the work to

270
00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:20.639
do that.

271
00:13:20.700 --> 00:13:24.899
I don't know what the difference is between the original and that

272
00:13:24.899 --> 00:13:26.279
but, you know, if Melco was there.

273
00:13:26.340 --> 00:13:31.559
And Melka's long game was to get into the keeper's chair making

274
00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:33.600
the changes.

275
00:13:33.659 --> 00:13:35.399
I think it adds a layer to the story.

276
00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:36.480
Yeah, absolutely.

277
00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:39.899
Do you think it was a good idea to bring back the master?

278
00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:41.519
In the long term?

279
00:13:41.580 --> 00:13:44.820
No, but in the short term, I think it really works for this and

280
00:13:44.820 --> 00:13:46.320
the next 2 stories.

281
00:13:46.379 --> 00:13:48.000
I think that bridging that is good.

282
00:13:48.059 --> 00:13:51.960
After that, I think, well, what they do with the master is pretty

283
00:13:51.960 --> 00:13:52.440
pathetic.

284
00:13:52.500 --> 00:13:55.620
Well, they're not really thinking about the character in another

285
00:13:55.620 --> 00:13:55.919
sense.

286
00:13:55.980 --> 00:13:59.639
I mean, Brendan, what you say about him manipulating people and

287
00:13:59.639 --> 00:14:01.500
making them act against their own interest.

288
00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:07.500
But what the master really is, is a rival who threatens to take

289
00:14:07.500 --> 00:14:09.779
over the doctor's role as star of the program.

290
00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:12.539
He needs to be the opposite of the doctor.

291
00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:15.960
And so each new iteration of the doctor really needs a different

292
00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:16.559
master.

293
00:14:16.620 --> 00:14:21.659
You know, so you've got Delgado, who is patrician, arrogant, but

294
00:14:21.659 --> 00:14:22.320
foreign.

295
00:14:22.379 --> 00:14:26.639
You know, he's like a version of Pertwee, and he works with

296
00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:27.659
Pertwee.

297
00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:31.440
Here, you've got Ainley, who's not really designed to work with a

298
00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:32.220
particular doctor.

299
00:14:32.279 --> 00:14:37.500
He has a goatee because that's what he had in the 70s and he's

300
00:14:37.500 --> 00:14:42.000
just a long because that's the sort of thing that Doctor Who used

301
00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:43.259
to do.

302
00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:45.779
But of course, Ainley is not the master yet.

303
00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:46.679
He's tree mouse.

304
00:14:46.740 --> 00:14:49.559
And he's rather wonderful, has tree mouth.

305
00:14:49.620 --> 00:14:52.559
This is Anthony Amy's best performance in Doctor Who, in my

306
00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:55.440
opinion, and I utterly adored tree medicine.

307
00:14:55.500 --> 00:14:59.279
I was utterly not devastated, but really upset at the end of the

308
00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:01.320
story when he gets when he is married.

309
00:15:01.379 --> 00:15:04.019
I think it's an amazingly upsetting ending.

310
00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:06.600
Yeah, and I just...

311
00:15:06.600 --> 00:15:13.259
I just adore TreamS as a character, like this, this father, this

312
00:15:13.259 --> 00:15:17.940
husband, this, this really good, honest man, who, who can talk to

313
00:15:17.940 --> 00:15:19.559
the doctor who wants to protect his people.

314
00:15:19.620 --> 00:15:22.799
It's just, it affects me now, just, just talking about it.

315
00:15:22.860 --> 00:15:27.059
It's only, I don't know, it's like the Pitt and Jane Baker thing

316
00:15:27.059 --> 00:15:30.059
the more you see of the actor or their writing, the more you see

317
00:15:30.059 --> 00:15:31.259
the cliches in their performance.

318
00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:35.220
So there's certain ways that Anthony Ainley pronounces his words

319
00:15:35.220 --> 00:15:39.179
et cetera, now, that I see in the performance of tree mass, only

320
00:15:39.179 --> 00:15:40.980
because I've seen his performance at the master.

321
00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:41.940
You know?

322
00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:46.139
Do you know, I actually, I don't think he's that good.

323
00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:50.220
And I think the reason is, and it's maybe the script's problem and

324
00:15:50.220 --> 00:15:53.940
maybe the director as well, but it's his wedding day and the day

325
00:15:53.940 --> 00:15:59.700
after his wedding day and he's just curiously kind of unaffected

326
00:15:59.700 --> 00:16:04.799
by the death of his wife and by her acting all weird and out of

327
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:05.279
character.

328
00:16:05.340 --> 00:16:11.220
You know, like he shows no affection really to Nissa at all and he

329
00:16:11.220 --> 00:16:15.539
doesn't really seem to show any affection to Cassia either.

330
00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:19.559
Yeah, see, though, I think, I think the Tracans, they're a little

331
00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:20.279
bit Vulcan.

332
00:16:20.340 --> 00:16:24.840
You know, they're so they're so science-y-minded that, The, you

333
00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:27.059
know, the only character who sort of expresses what we would

334
00:16:27.059 --> 00:16:32.700
consider as negative human elements is Neiman, and, you know, he's

335
00:16:32.700 --> 00:16:35.159
a, he's an opportunist and what have you.

336
00:16:35.220 --> 00:16:37.320
And that scene as a bad thing.

337
00:16:37.379 --> 00:16:39.240
I suppose you've also got Lubic.

338
00:16:39.299 --> 00:16:40.259
I love Lubic.

339
00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:41.399
I like Lubic as well.

340
00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:43.500
I thought he was John Leeson when I was a kid.

341
00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:46.500
You know, he looks like John Leeson, but there's that wonderful

342
00:16:46.500 --> 00:16:47.039
bit.

343
00:16:47.100 --> 00:16:49.980
I think it's episode 2 where Ceron is killed.

344
00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:50.879
John Woodner.

345
00:16:50.940 --> 00:16:54.299
John Woodner is back again and being wonderful and they're

346
00:16:54.299 --> 00:16:55.500
discussing what's happening.

347
00:16:55.559 --> 00:16:59.039
Uh, Couture, who is um, Margot Vanderberg.

348
00:16:59.100 --> 00:17:00.419
She's Kamika.

349
00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:05.339
She's Kameka from the Aztecs, and they're discussing what they

350
00:17:05.339 --> 00:17:08.819
should do, and Lubic leans in to say something very important and

351
00:17:08.819 --> 00:17:10.980
says, I don't know what's going on.

352
00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:13.799
He says about 3 times, actually.

353
00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:16.680
And it sounds like it sounds like that character.

354
00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:19.740
And you've talked about all these actors, and I just think the

355
00:17:19.740 --> 00:17:22.440
casting, all these people are cast in these roles, and I just

356
00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:24.539
think they do such a tremendous job.

357
00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:26.279
I just, I love Seron.

358
00:17:26.339 --> 00:17:29.460
I love his scientific thing and John Willard does such a great

359
00:17:29.460 --> 00:17:29.880
job.

360
00:17:29.940 --> 00:17:33.480
Like, you know, we're betrayed tree mass and Margot Vanderberg as

361
00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:34.140
Coutura.

362
00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:35.039
I really hate it.

363
00:17:35.099 --> 00:17:37.680
Like as a character because it's sort of like, well, we're going

364
00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:39.180
to just kill the doctor, kill the strangers.

365
00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:41.579
And then, of course, when we get the new keeper, it's sort of like

366
00:17:41.579 --> 00:17:42.779
oh, well...

367
00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:43.799
We'd better do what he says.

368
00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:44.460
Exactly.

369
00:17:44.519 --> 00:17:46.380
It's sort of like she's after her own skin.

370
00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:49.859
It's very much like Downton Abbey where you've got the Maggie

371
00:17:49.859 --> 00:17:52.440
Smith character who's very much in the past, you know what I

372
00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:52.619
mean?

373
00:17:52.680 --> 00:17:55.319
And things need to stay the same, and you know, this is the way

374
00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:56.099
we've always done it.

375
00:17:56.160 --> 00:18:00.180
And so that parallel now sort of reminds me of her.

376
00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:04.019
But they're all, I just think getting such Shakespearean and

377
00:18:04.019 --> 00:18:04.980
wonderful performances.

378
00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:07.980
And I think it's one of the, the strengths of this story.

379
00:18:08.099 --> 00:18:14.339
You know, John Black then cast Sheila Ruskin as Cassia, who I just

380
00:18:14.339 --> 00:18:17.640
feel for her, like, and at other times, I just want to punch her

381
00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:18.299
in the face.

382
00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:19.079
You know?

383
00:18:19.140 --> 00:18:20.940
It's a really actorly performance.

384
00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:22.259
Her performance.

385
00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:22.799
Yeah, yeah.

386
00:18:22.859 --> 00:18:26.220
And you hit on something with a Shakespeare thing, and I think

387
00:18:26.220 --> 00:18:30.059
that this is said quite often about this show, that at the time

388
00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:33.119
it's made, the BBC is producing a thing called a season of

389
00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:36.960
Shakespeare, where they do every Shakespeare play, and they're

390
00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:39.960
about two hours long, depending on the sort of source material

391
00:18:39.960 --> 00:18:44.579
they're all shot in the studio, and the sets all look very similar

392
00:18:44.579 --> 00:18:48.119
to the set from Keeper of Track, and, like, you know, with the

393
00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:49.019
sky.

394
00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:51.059
Like I love the sky and the grove.

395
00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:54.539
I think it looks spectacular, and that's how they do the outdoor

396
00:18:54.539 --> 00:18:56.579
scenes in a season of Shakespeare.

397
00:18:56.700 --> 00:18:56.940
Okay.

398
00:18:56.940 --> 00:18:59.579
And the costumes are very much like that.

399
00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:03.359
So the whole thing looks production wise very much like that.

400
00:19:03.420 --> 00:19:06.779
But the scripts as well have sort of Shakespearean elements in

401
00:19:06.779 --> 00:19:06.960
it.

402
00:19:07.019 --> 00:19:09.420
And so Sheila Ruskin fainting.

403
00:19:10.740 --> 00:19:11.700
Can I just say that asleep?

404
00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:14.279
That is one of the most hilarious things when you're sort of like

405
00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:16.920
there's a web of nothing here and I'm going to just collapse on

406
00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:20.819
the ground or when she's saying, no, we must not become the keeper

407
00:19:20.819 --> 00:19:21.779
or whatever.

408
00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:23.160
She does a little assignment.

409
00:19:23.220 --> 00:19:24.599
And he was going, what?

410
00:19:24.660 --> 00:19:24.839
What?

411
00:19:24.900 --> 00:19:26.220
nothing at all.

412
00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:28.259
I really, really liked that.

413
00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:32.160
And there's like, you know, pulling people out from behind things

414
00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:34.079
like Polonius in Hamlet.

415
00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:39.359
And some of the dialogue is in iambic pentameters and, you know

416
00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:40.559
their Shakespearean language.

417
00:19:40.619 --> 00:19:46.859
I think Serong accuses them of meeting hugger mugger to like

418
00:19:46.859 --> 00:19:48.839
Polonius's burial, I think.

419
00:19:48.900 --> 00:19:51.720
There is a very sort of deliberate Shakespearean thing.

420
00:19:51.779 --> 00:19:52.920
And of course, thematically.

421
00:19:52.980 --> 00:19:57.059
There are scenes in Shakespeare, like, at the death of Duncan, in

422
00:19:57.059 --> 00:20:03.240
Macbeth, or The Death of Julius Caesar, in Julius Caesar.

423
00:20:03.299 --> 00:20:06.420
The madness of King Lear when he's out with the when he's out with

424
00:20:06.420 --> 00:20:06.900
the fool.

425
00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:12.779
Yeah, so it's reflected, like the king, the state of the monarch

426
00:20:12.779 --> 00:20:17.940
like the death of a king, results in nature going crazy and

427
00:20:17.940 --> 00:20:21.059
there's storms and all of those kinds of things.

428
00:20:21.180 --> 00:20:22.019
Horses eat each other.

429
00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:23.640
The horses eat each other, it said.

430
00:20:23.700 --> 00:20:26.160
And so that's what's happening here.

431
00:20:26.220 --> 00:20:29.640
It's a huge theme in Shakespeare and this is about a court

432
00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:34.140
discussing the succession of one monarch to another, and the whole

433
00:20:34.140 --> 00:20:39.599
health of the body politic depends on the health of a monarch, and

434
00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:42.720
even nature itself depends on the health of the monarch.

435
00:20:43.140 --> 00:20:48.299
Something I quite like about that is, you know, of course, pre

436
00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:52.019
Mass is named as keep a nominate, that doesn't happen.

437
00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:55.799
Cassia steps in and is usurped by the master, so the master

438
00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:56.759
becomes the keeper.

439
00:20:56.819 --> 00:20:59.880
But then finally, Luvic becomes a keeper.

440
00:20:59.940 --> 00:21:02.700
Luvic, who has been sitting there going, I don't know what to do

441
00:21:02.700 --> 00:21:03.539
what do we do?

442
00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:04.140
I don't do anything.

443
00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:06.480
He is the one who makes the final decision.

444
00:21:06.539 --> 00:21:09.119
You know, I will sacrifice myself for my people.

445
00:21:09.180 --> 00:21:14.039
I love how he does that because it's a real rush and he and

446
00:21:14.039 --> 00:21:16.859
Couture are kind of with each other and he goes, I'll go.

447
00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:20.220
And they sort of rush us off and sits in the chair and it's just

448
00:21:20.220 --> 00:21:20.940
terrific.

449
00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:21.599
He's really great.

450
00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:23.400
Yeah, it's bringing tears to my eyes.

451
00:21:23.460 --> 00:21:26.819
Like it honestly is one of the most affected scenes for me in the

452
00:21:26.819 --> 00:21:27.480
history of the show.

453
00:21:27.539 --> 00:21:30.299
And what happens in the following story.

454
00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:34.740
Just let me utterly devastate. utterly and totally devastated.

455
00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:35.400
Right?

456
00:21:35.460 --> 00:21:37.559
I don't want to talk about it now, right?

457
00:21:37.619 --> 00:21:41.099
But it just really, really upsets me even to even think about it

458
00:21:41.099 --> 00:21:41.339
now.

459
00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:44.339
I just think with everything that has gone on in this story.

460
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:47.279
We were talking a bit about, like, you know, the elements and the

461
00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:48.660
forces and that sort of getting upset.

462
00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:52.980
The scene with all the wind and all that sort of stuff, I don't

463
00:21:52.980 --> 00:21:55.319
think, is that well done now looking at it.

464
00:21:55.380 --> 00:21:57.539
No, but it's a stage thing.

465
00:21:57.599 --> 00:22:00.059
Yeah, so it fits with the style of the production.

466
00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:03.720
There's a few little things like in the direction.

467
00:22:03.779 --> 00:22:08.880
I'm sure there's one moment where the camera is coming into to one

468
00:22:08.880 --> 00:22:12.119
of those step ups out of the grove and I'm sure it hits it at some

469
00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:12.539
point.

470
00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:15.839
Like there's a little bump and I just went, so there's a few

471
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:18.599
little things and I don't actually like the meld at the end

472
00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:20.759
between Trimus and the master.

473
00:22:20.819 --> 00:22:24.599
I think that's really quite, I just kind of, I kind of go, oh, it's

474
00:22:24.599 --> 00:22:25.799
really, it's really big proming.

475
00:22:25.859 --> 00:22:28.680
One special effect that I think works terrifically well is at the

476
00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:32.220
end of episode 3 where Cassia is covered with this superimposed

477
00:22:32.220 --> 00:22:35.339
effect because she's going to disappear and be replaced by the

478
00:22:35.339 --> 00:22:35.759
master.

479
00:22:35.819 --> 00:22:39.839
And she does her sort of actressy waving her arms around.

480
00:22:39.900 --> 00:22:43.740
But there's a point where it's just her hands coming out of this

481
00:22:43.740 --> 00:22:44.339
special affair.

482
00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:48.000
Yeah, yeah, and it looks really creepy. terrifying.

483
00:22:48.059 --> 00:22:50.160
And I just want to talk about that.

484
00:22:50.220 --> 00:22:53.460
I think that is one of the most utterly horrific moments in the

485
00:22:53.460 --> 00:22:56.460
history of Doctor Who, and I went to bed and had nightmares.

486
00:22:56.519 --> 00:23:00.599
I was crying over that and I still affects me to this day when

487
00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:04.440
even when I watch it, the fact that this woman is materialised

488
00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:04.859
on.

489
00:23:04.920 --> 00:23:06.960
She is just, that is her death.

490
00:23:07.019 --> 00:23:11.519
It is just so, she's done everything to protect her husband, you

491
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:18.180
know, even having funny eyes, like, um, uh, the, uh, image of the

492
00:23:18.180 --> 00:23:21.779
fend doll, which I really love, love it when they do those.

493
00:23:22.140 --> 00:23:25.980
But it is funny how, like, you know, she'll just stun tree mass

494
00:23:25.980 --> 00:23:27.539
but everybody else who gets zapped by it dies.

495
00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:29.519
Well, she loves tree masks, you know?

496
00:23:29.579 --> 00:23:30.180
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

497
00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:32.519
And that's very Shakespearian as well.

498
00:23:32.579 --> 00:23:36.180
The love between couples in Shakespeare almost always leads to

499
00:23:36.180 --> 00:23:36.839
people dying.

500
00:23:37.019 --> 00:23:39.119
But yeah, it just...

501
00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:41.460
It just really affects me.

502
00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:45.240
Her entire death just really, really affects me.

503
00:23:45.299 --> 00:23:49.680
Besides Cassia, the other member of the family is, of course

504
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:50.759
NISA.

505
00:23:50.819 --> 00:23:53.039
And I think Sarah Sudden is great.

506
00:23:53.099 --> 00:23:54.539
You know, she's so natural.

507
00:23:54.660 --> 00:23:59.039
I love the fact that Nissa gets the iron bonder and gets to zap

508
00:23:59.039 --> 00:23:59.519
people.

509
00:24:00.059 --> 00:24:02.160
You know, she's actually given some, she's quite willing to take

510
00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:05.400
up arms, you know, the 1st opportunity, that is the prerequisite

511
00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:08.640
of a companion is willing to get in there and, you know, defend

512
00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:09.839
the doctor and fight for good.

513
00:24:09.900 --> 00:24:12.839
You know, she'll do it again in the other Johnny Burns script, you

514
00:24:12.839 --> 00:24:12.960
know?

515
00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:15.660
And you know, she's not given many of these opportunities, which

516
00:24:15.660 --> 00:24:17.339
is, you know, so unfair.

517
00:24:17.460 --> 00:24:21.119
And I love, and we talked earlier about her relationship with

518
00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:23.700
Adrick, and I like that this little duo that are trying to work on

519
00:24:23.700 --> 00:24:26.640
their own thing, which is parallel to the doctor and treatment

520
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:30.240
discussing, you know, destroying the source in parallel.

521
00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:33.720
And, um, and I like the fact that she gets to go inside the

522
00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:35.880
Tartars and see all that as sort of an introduction.

523
00:24:35.940 --> 00:24:38.099
Obviously, at this point they hadn't decided that she was going to

524
00:24:38.099 --> 00:24:40.920
come aboard the crew in the next story.

525
00:24:40.980 --> 00:24:44.700
And I think the moment that that tremor becomes the master.

526
00:24:44.819 --> 00:24:50.220
I think influences that script because in Lagopolis, there's a

527
00:24:50.220 --> 00:24:53.819
whole bit about, you know, she thinks it is her father.

528
00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:57.660
Now, if they didn't have Nyssa in there to do that.

529
00:24:57.720 --> 00:24:58.740
You know, who would it be?

530
00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:00.240
What would be going on in the plot?

531
00:25:00.299 --> 00:25:03.000
You know, that's a good 10 minutes of that plot that he needs her

532
00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:03.359
for.

533
00:25:03.420 --> 00:25:07.259
She, I mean, she's a very experienced actor by this stage, isn't

534
00:25:07.259 --> 00:25:07.440
she?

535
00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:12.240
She's done lots of things as a child and she's pretty good here.

536
00:25:12.299 --> 00:25:15.059
She doesn't really appear until she doesn't get a line until

537
00:25:15.059 --> 00:25:16.319
episode two, does she?

538
00:25:16.380 --> 00:25:18.779
Yeah, it does take a while for her to get that.

539
00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:21.960
But just, you know, her relationship with Cassia, you know, getting

540
00:25:21.960 --> 00:25:24.960
discovered in the grove and then telling the proctor to send away

541
00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:29.759
the people and hilarious. fabulously anastocratic, isn't she?

542
00:25:29.819 --> 00:25:33.059
Yeah, again, that's another sort of Shakespearean thing, this sort

543
00:25:33.059 --> 00:25:33.779
of class thing.

544
00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:37.680
So they're the mob, you know, and they're an offence against the

545
00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:39.660
dignity of the consoles or something.

546
00:25:39.660 --> 00:25:42.539
She's a fabulous princess in that scene.

547
00:25:42.660 --> 00:25:46.680
I know, you know, I love the fact that they're, when they do get

548
00:25:46.680 --> 00:25:49.859
put away downstairs, you know, she's going to break them out of

549
00:25:49.859 --> 00:25:51.119
the prison and all that sort of stuff.

550
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:53.759
It reminds me always of that scene when they're actually in the

551
00:25:53.759 --> 00:25:56.519
cell with Tom, where he's got that bit of sawdust dangling from

552
00:25:56.519 --> 00:25:56.880
his nose.

553
00:25:56.940 --> 00:25:58.859
I thought it was a spider web.

554
00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:01.920
It looks like a great big bogey, doesn't it?

555
00:26:01.980 --> 00:26:03.359
Yeah, a lot of people think it's a movie.

556
00:26:03.420 --> 00:26:06.180
Well, if you look at the ground, it's all got sawdust.

557
00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:09.660
So it's obviously, but it's there and then it's not, you know, it

558
00:26:09.660 --> 00:26:10.980
jumps between the different tanks.

559
00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:13.380
It's always interesting to see.

560
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:17.400
One of the things I really love is the flames that indicate that

561
00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:20.579
the keeper is dying, that whole concept of them being really like

562
00:26:20.579 --> 00:26:23.039
brightly lit and then gradually going down.

563
00:26:23.099 --> 00:26:24.119
I don't know why.

564
00:26:24.180 --> 00:26:26.640
I like these things, but I just do.

565
00:26:26.700 --> 00:26:29.400
It's just something the visual of it just really, really appeals

566
00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:29.880
to me.

567
00:26:29.940 --> 00:26:32.460
That is a thing called a flame bar.

568
00:26:32.579 --> 00:26:35.039
That, that thing with the poems.

569
00:26:35.099 --> 00:26:40.740
And if you imagine sort of a strip of metal that has, it's got gas

570
00:26:40.740 --> 00:26:42.420
jets inside and it shoots the flames up.

571
00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:43.799
It's the same thing.

572
00:26:44.220 --> 00:26:48.240
Probably not the exact same one, but it's the same type of thing

573
00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:51.599
that I hold in front of the camera in the last episode when the

574
00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:55.799
doctor's making is escape to have flames in front of him, yeah.

575
00:26:55.859 --> 00:26:59.460
And it was they were very commonly used in television for fire

576
00:26:59.460 --> 00:27:00.000
scene.

577
00:27:00.059 --> 00:27:02.039
So it's kind of like you can just have, really, you can just have

578
00:27:02.039 --> 00:27:05.160
smoke going on in the background and have that flame bar close to

579
00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:06.960
the camera and the actor is never in any danger.

580
00:27:07.019 --> 00:27:09.779
Now, here they do have fire in the background as well.

581
00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:11.519
But yeah, it's a flame bar.

582
00:27:11.579 --> 00:27:13.619
There you go. interesting.

583
00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:15.299
Proctanine.

584
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:19.980
Interesting little character who's very much in it for himself who

585
00:27:19.980 --> 00:27:23.579
eventually gets one of the rings of the consoles.

586
00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:25.980
I always love that thing that you get this special ring and you

587
00:27:25.980 --> 00:27:28.319
get to put it into the console and punch these magic numbers.

588
00:27:28.440 --> 00:27:33.420
It's literally a secret decoder ring for our American listeners.

589
00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:36.240
Like, I mean, that's really stupid.

590
00:27:36.299 --> 00:27:39.539
Those numbers that the doctor punches, the last 3 digits are 337.

591
00:27:39.720 --> 00:27:41.759
Like I'm going, where are you making this up from?

592
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:44.519
But that's the encryption key.

593
00:27:44.579 --> 00:27:45.539
There's dialogues, isn't there?

594
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:47.880
They need to... based on a single prime number.

595
00:27:47.940 --> 00:27:49.200
Yeah, hold on.

596
00:27:49.259 --> 00:27:50.460
I've got it here.

597
00:27:50.519 --> 00:27:51.779
What's that piece of the mechanism?

598
00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:54.240
Oh, of course, a recursive integrator.

599
00:27:54.359 --> 00:27:55.440
How are the rings encoded?

600
00:27:55.500 --> 00:27:56.940
Gamma mode encryption.

601
00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:00.779
Then there'll be a single large prime number at the root of it, and

602
00:28:00.779 --> 00:28:02.339
we don't have the integer key.

603
00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:03.420
Yeah, so there you go.

604
00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:04.980
That makes no sense to me.

605
00:28:05.039 --> 00:28:05.940
I don't understand.

606
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:06.420
That makes sense.

607
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:07.079
That makes sense.

608
00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:07.680
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

609
00:28:07.740 --> 00:28:10.079
Prime numbers are used in encryption, I think.

610
00:28:10.140 --> 00:28:12.720
And so they're entering the prime number in there too, because

611
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:16.380
they don't have all of the all of the secret decoder rings.

612
00:28:16.440 --> 00:28:20.519
I love his neckband and Cassie's neckband that they get to wear.

613
00:28:20.519 --> 00:28:21.420
Which no one notices.

614
00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:23.940
No one notices the neck band.

615
00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:27.240
You've added that thing that occasionally glows red when you kill

616
00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:27.539
people.

617
00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:29.039
Where did you get that?

618
00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:32.279
Speaking of which, that, where did she get it actually?

619
00:28:32.339 --> 00:28:36.059
Did the master nip outside and put it at the feet of the thing?

620
00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:38.640
If so, where's the door in Melka?

621
00:28:38.700 --> 00:28:41.940
Well, you know, he's had to be doing something for the last 20

622
00:28:41.940 --> 00:28:42.299
years.

623
00:28:42.539 --> 00:28:45.960
Actually, just started off as a normal bondage comment.

624
00:28:46.019 --> 00:28:49.200
So can we talk about Jeffrey Beavers?

625
00:28:49.259 --> 00:28:50.160
We could.

626
00:28:50.220 --> 00:28:54.420
He's got a spectacular voice.

627
00:28:54.480 --> 00:28:56.519
It's really great.

628
00:28:56.579 --> 00:29:01.619
And it's sometimes really evil and sometimes a bit playful.

629
00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:03.420
There's some humour in it.

630
00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:04.980
It's just tremendous.

631
00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:08.940
All designs are wonderfully well delivered, and he's gone on to

632
00:29:08.940 --> 00:29:13.079
have a great career in the audiobooks, whenever, because, um, you

633
00:29:13.079 --> 00:29:15.839
know, no one else who played the master in the in the original

634
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:19.680
show is is with us any longer, he's the one who reads the

635
00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:22.440
audiobooks that have the master in them, and he's wonderful.

636
00:29:22.619 --> 00:29:25.799
You know, why couldn't you cast somebody like him as the master?

637
00:29:25.859 --> 00:29:29.700
Like, you don't have to look like, no, Roger Delgado.

638
00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:32.759
Like, but of course, you know, at that time, that's not, that's

639
00:29:32.759 --> 00:29:33.359
not the thinking.

640
00:29:33.420 --> 00:29:36.599
His work in Big Finish as the master is just spectacular.

641
00:29:36.660 --> 00:29:40.259
I think it's a real shame that he's not credited as the master on

642
00:29:40.259 --> 00:29:40.559
screen.

643
00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:42.599
He just credited as Melka, you know?

644
00:29:42.660 --> 00:29:45.119
And I think once that reveal it happened.

645
00:29:45.180 --> 00:29:47.819
I think he should have been credited as the master.

646
00:29:47.940 --> 00:29:49.319
In the final episode.

647
00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:53.940
But that, all that stuff with Neiman and TreeMass and the Melka.

648
00:29:54.359 --> 00:30:01.140
Asking T-Mass as a reasonable man to execute Nieman and now

649
00:30:01.140 --> 00:30:01.559
yourself.

650
00:30:01.619 --> 00:30:05.579
It really does establish how unhinged the master is.

651
00:30:05.700 --> 00:30:09.420
Yeah, he doesn't actually get to do anything sort of, oh, he kills

652
00:30:09.420 --> 00:30:12.059
Cassia, I guess, but if you're going to reintroduce him.

653
00:30:12.119 --> 00:30:15.779
He's got to be kind of super evil, I think.

654
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:20.220
And so having Neiman killed like that and having, you know, the

655
00:30:20.220 --> 00:30:21.299
doctor forced to watch and stuff.

656
00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:22.140
That is nasty.

657
00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:24.779
It's nastier than the show has been for a while.

658
00:30:24.839 --> 00:30:27.180
But, you know, I think it's worth doing.

659
00:30:27.240 --> 00:30:32.579
But very tellingly, it manages to be very nasty and horrific

660
00:30:32.579 --> 00:30:35.400
without resorting to blood and guts.

661
00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:39.480
Because, of course, you know, early 80s, this is around the time.

662
00:30:39.539 --> 00:30:42.720
Of course, Texas Chainsaw Massacre was 6 or 7 years before this

663
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:45.420
the Friday, the 13th film series was really taking off.

664
00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:48.480
We were a couple of years off getting nightmare on Elm Street.

665
00:30:48.539 --> 00:30:51.240
You know, slasher films were huge in this period.

666
00:30:51.299 --> 00:30:54.000
But Doctor Who is going at this point.

667
00:30:54.059 --> 00:30:54.839
You know what?

668
00:30:54.900 --> 00:30:55.140
No.

669
00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:58.740
We're going to do what we did well at the beginning of this era.

670
00:30:58.799 --> 00:31:00.420
We're going to have psychological horror.

671
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:03.119
And it's really, really effective.

672
00:31:03.180 --> 00:31:06.000
And I think it's all the more effective for the reasons you were

673
00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:09.299
saying, Todd, we have such excellent casting, that when these

674
00:31:09.299 --> 00:31:13.440
characters do die, despite the fact we've only known them for half

675
00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:19.019
an hour or an hour, it means something and we feel something for

676
00:31:19.019 --> 00:31:19.440
them.

677
00:31:19.500 --> 00:31:24.119
And I think we can imagine ourselves in that situation.

678
00:31:24.119 --> 00:31:30.779
And that is a criticism that will come back during the next few

679
00:31:30.779 --> 00:31:34.200
seasons of Doctor Who can we actually empathise with these

680
00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:34.619
characters?

681
00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:40.440
I love how it's suave milker is once it becomes the keeper and

682
00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:46.740
picks in, you know, puts into Trimis's... house or quarters, I

683
00:31:46.740 --> 00:31:50.400
should say, and, you know, is asking for certain things.

684
00:31:50.460 --> 00:31:52.799
It's back to his voice performance.

685
00:31:52.859 --> 00:31:54.539
Yeah, it's wonderful. so wonderful.

686
00:31:54.599 --> 00:31:58.920
Yeah, no, he sounds just super reasonable and sort of mild.

687
00:31:58.980 --> 00:32:00.240
He's terrific.

688
00:32:00.299 --> 00:32:01.680
He really is spectacular.

689
00:32:01.740 --> 00:32:05.940
You know, I think I'm liking this story a lot more hearing you

690
00:32:05.940 --> 00:32:07.019
talk about it, Todd.

691
00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:12.720
I was going to spend some time bitching about what, I think, like

692
00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:15.599
the kind of flaws of the bid made year.

693
00:32:15.660 --> 00:32:17.160
And this exhibits some of them.

694
00:32:17.220 --> 00:32:20.160
There's a lot of kind of that thing that Brendan quoted earlier

695
00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:23.579
about gamma mode encryption and stuff isn't necessarily the most

696
00:32:23.579 --> 00:32:24.420
entertaining thing.

697
00:32:24.539 --> 00:32:28.440
There's something to be said about, stick on BBC beers.

698
00:32:28.920 --> 00:32:35.460
There are a bit more obvious. 30 years later, but it does create a

699
00:32:35.460 --> 00:32:41.099
really vivid and coherent world. this story and characters that

700
00:32:41.099 --> 00:32:43.680
you care about that aren't all men for a change.

701
00:32:43.740 --> 00:32:46.680
I think it is, it is pretty good and it looks great.

702
00:32:46.740 --> 00:32:49.200
It's a world that I would have loved to visit.

703
00:32:49.319 --> 00:32:52.380
Like, you know, there's some Doctor Who, and that's one as a child

704
00:32:52.380 --> 00:32:56.279
that I would have loved to, if it really happened, you know?

705
00:32:56.460 --> 00:33:02.460
This story has, uh, surprisingly, long afterlife in the world's

706
00:33:02.460 --> 00:33:05.519
big finish because, of course, Jeffrey Beavers, as you mentioned

707
00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:09.180
Nathan, not only is he reading the audiobooks for the BBC.

708
00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:13.799
They brought him back as the master, opposite, predominantly Tom

709
00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:17.400
Baker, but also Sylvester McCoy, he's done some excellent stories

710
00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:18.480
for Sylvester McCoy.

711
00:33:18.539 --> 00:33:20.819
There was dust breeding where he originally comes back along with

712
00:33:20.819 --> 00:33:24.000
his wife, the late Carol and John, of course.

713
00:33:24.059 --> 00:33:26.099
He's Mr. Elizabeth Shaw.

714
00:33:26.160 --> 00:33:29.039
That is a tremendous audio.

715
00:33:29.099 --> 00:33:31.079
Anybody out there, if you've not heard it.

716
00:33:31.140 --> 00:33:32.640
That is one to get.

717
00:33:32.700 --> 00:33:33.720
What's it called?

718
00:33:33.779 --> 00:33:34.920
Dust reading.

719
00:33:34.980 --> 00:33:37.980
And also Master by Joe Linster.

720
00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:43.019
Which was one of the 40th anniversary stories, and it kind of goes

721
00:33:43.019 --> 00:33:44.940
into the doctor and the master's relationship.

722
00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:48.119
But in the last few years, he's mainly been acting alongside Tom

723
00:33:48.119 --> 00:33:50.700
in stories set before the keeper of Tracan.

724
00:33:50.759 --> 00:33:51.059
Right.

725
00:33:51.059 --> 00:33:53.759
He's had stories with Louise Jameson.

726
00:33:53.819 --> 00:33:56.519
I think he's got one coming up with Lull Award, and there's even a

727
00:33:56.519 --> 00:34:01.799
trilogy this year called The Two Masters, where you've got Jeffrey

728
00:34:01.799 --> 00:34:06.119
Beavers, and he's doing a story with Peter Davidson.

729
00:34:06.180 --> 00:34:09.719
You've got Alexander McQueen, who Big Finis have introduced as

730
00:34:09.719 --> 00:34:11.219
another new incarnation of the master.

731
00:34:11.340 --> 00:34:12.960
He's that guy from the thick of it.

732
00:34:13.019 --> 00:34:14.400
Think of it, yeah.

733
00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:16.260
And he's doing a story with Colin Baker.

734
00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:19.920
And then you've got the 2 Masters, which is both of them with

735
00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:21.059
Sylvester McCoy.

736
00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:23.039
Oh, I thought you were going to say they were going to have that

737
00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:24.780
dude from the TV movie.

738
00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:29.219
Gordon Tipple is interviewed in Doctor Who magazine in the in the

739
00:34:29.219 --> 00:34:33.300
March issue of Doctor Who magazine. quite a good interview and

740
00:34:33.300 --> 00:34:36.480
they have a shot of him in full makeup and in full costume on the

741
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:39.179
set, which I don't think has ever been seen before.

742
00:34:39.239 --> 00:34:41.400
I have to download that.

743
00:34:41.460 --> 00:34:45.300
I haven't been to the app for ages.

744
00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:49.380
It's also got an interview with Eric Roberts, who is actually an

745
00:34:49.380 --> 00:34:52.500
it seems like a quite a humble and down to earth guy and really

746
00:34:52.500 --> 00:34:53.340
enjoyed his time.

747
00:34:53.400 --> 00:34:55.559
And Jeffrey Beavers, whenever he talks about Doctor.

748
00:34:55.619 --> 00:34:59.579
We saw him at a convention 2 years ago, I think, when he came out

749
00:34:59.579 --> 00:35:03.960
here and it was shortly after Carol and John had died, but he was

750
00:35:03.960 --> 00:35:07.019
talking about how he loved doing it even then, but now he's got

751
00:35:07.019 --> 00:35:08.699
this afterlife in the show as well.

752
00:35:08.760 --> 00:35:12.179
He always talks about the fact that he wanted to use his own eyes

753
00:35:12.179 --> 00:35:16.860
as opposed to the previous Peter Pratt, giggly eyes.

754
00:35:16.860 --> 00:35:18.059
With a goggly eye.

755
00:35:18.119 --> 00:35:21.719
Yeah, well, I think I think that that's the right choice.

756
00:35:21.780 --> 00:35:24.360
That mask with the sausage fingers and stuff.

757
00:35:24.420 --> 00:35:25.800
That's too.

758
00:35:25.860 --> 00:35:27.599
It's too static.

759
00:35:27.659 --> 00:35:31.800
I think the big problem is like painting painting the teeth on his

760
00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:32.159
lips.

761
00:35:32.219 --> 00:35:36.059
And to his credit, he tries as much as possible not to move his

762
00:35:36.059 --> 00:35:38.699
lips while he's performing because he knows he's got the teeth on

763
00:35:38.699 --> 00:35:39.000
there.

764
00:35:39.059 --> 00:35:41.639
I think they've meant to, I thought that just cracked lips.

765
00:35:41.699 --> 00:35:42.360
Cracked lips.

766
00:35:42.420 --> 00:35:43.619
I always read it that way.

767
00:35:43.679 --> 00:35:46.260
I know because you've got the Peter Pratt thing that had the skull

768
00:35:46.260 --> 00:35:46.860
teeth.

769
00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:52.500
Yeah. which somehow still left him able to pronounce labial

770
00:35:52.500 --> 00:35:53.280
consonants.

771
00:35:53.340 --> 00:35:56.159
But whatever, like Skeletor.

772
00:35:56.219 --> 00:35:58.739
So a real description, labial content?

773
00:35:58.800 --> 00:35:59.699
Yeah, you did not know that.

774
00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:00.059
Okay.

775
00:36:00.119 --> 00:36:01.980
So he can still pronounce those.

776
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:04.860
But, yeah, no, I always just assumed that those were his lips, and

777
00:36:04.860 --> 00:36:07.920
certainly, because he does that hilarious big scream thing at the

778
00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:11.820
end, because he and the doctor meet very, very briefly and then

779
00:36:11.820 --> 00:36:14.760
thinks instantly, pretty much, instantly go horribly wrong for

780
00:36:14.760 --> 00:36:15.059
him.

781
00:36:15.179 --> 00:36:19.739
And then he does that huge massive giant scream, which is he's

782
00:36:19.739 --> 00:36:21.780
such a sport for doing that.

783
00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:25.440
And, you know, they're clearly his lips in that.

784
00:36:25.500 --> 00:36:26.219
You know what?

785
00:36:26.280 --> 00:36:27.420
I do think as well.

786
00:36:27.480 --> 00:36:30.480
Bring back master is inspired by Darth Vader.

787
00:36:31.619 --> 00:36:36.360
Because, you know, we've got Star Wars slash A New Hope, which

788
00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:39.659
came out in 1977 followed by Empire Strikes Back in 1980.

789
00:36:40.619 --> 00:36:43.679
So here we get the master is throughout the story, like Darth

790
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:44.820
Vader is throughout the 1st film.

791
00:36:44.880 --> 00:36:50.639
But Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker have no interaction in the 1st

792
00:36:50.639 --> 00:36:50.880
film.

793
00:36:50.940 --> 00:36:54.900
They have one fight together which hand saves Luke from.

794
00:36:54.960 --> 00:37:01.559
Here, the master and the doctor have one scene together in the

795
00:37:01.559 --> 00:37:05.039
same room with the doctor fully aware of who he is.

796
00:37:05.099 --> 00:37:06.960
You know, he's suspected for a little while.

797
00:37:07.019 --> 00:37:08.940
And as you say, Todd, he's a bit slow on the uptake.

798
00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:11.940
Even Adrik notices that the readings are the same as the TARDIS

799
00:37:11.940 --> 00:37:12.719
before the doctor does.

800
00:37:12.780 --> 00:37:16.559
Which is what I was saying earlier about the fact that Andric, the

801
00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:17.099
character.

802
00:37:17.159 --> 00:37:22.079
That's a clever thing, whereas next year we're getting like a 12

803
00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:22.679
year old.

804
00:37:22.739 --> 00:37:25.380
Whereas here it's like he's a young man who's maturing.

805
00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:26.760
And so he's worked this out.

806
00:37:26.820 --> 00:37:28.559
He's doing these independent things.

807
00:37:28.619 --> 00:37:32.820
Yeah, so I think that that's possibly an influence because when we

808
00:37:32.820 --> 00:37:36.000
look at Graham Williams, Graham Williams, of course, tried to

809
00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:40.380
emulate Star Wars by having big spaceship shots and really good

810
00:37:40.380 --> 00:37:41.820
models.

811
00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:45.119
Whereas I think Doctor Who's kind of realised now, you know, let's

812
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:49.860
let's emulate the classic kind of hero confronts villain. if we're

813
00:37:49.860 --> 00:37:50.579
going to have a trilogy.

814
00:37:51.059 --> 00:37:55.920
The hero can win the battle in the 1st episode, but not the war.

815
00:37:55.980 --> 00:37:57.960
And I think that's what happens here.

816
00:37:58.019 --> 00:38:00.179
You know, the doctor frightens the master off, but we do get that

817
00:38:00.179 --> 00:38:03.659
horrible ending where he takes over TreeMass, who is a character

818
00:38:03.659 --> 00:38:06.300
you know, we've really come to know and admire over these 4

819
00:38:06.300 --> 00:38:06.900
episodes.

820
00:38:06.900 --> 00:38:10.920
And even that scene where he comes into conflict with the doctor

821
00:38:10.920 --> 00:38:14.340
and the doctor gives him that wonderful dressing down of, oh

822
00:38:14.340 --> 00:38:15.000
yeah.

823
00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:19.199
When, when, the source is, when the source has been taken over and

824
00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:22.260
trunkens in ruins and everyone's dead, at least you kept your

825
00:38:22.260 --> 00:38:23.159
honour intact.

826
00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:27.000
Yeah, and that, with lesser actors, that line would have been

827
00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:28.440
screamed or shouted.

828
00:38:28.500 --> 00:38:32.940
Like, okay, as much as I love, say, John Pertley and Colin Baker

829
00:38:32.940 --> 00:38:37.320
in the role, you know, that would have been a browbeating thumping

830
00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:37.679
the desk.

831
00:38:37.739 --> 00:38:40.800
Oh, no, but he over enunciates the word intact.

832
00:38:40.860 --> 00:38:42.420
Yeah, yeah, so wonderfully.

833
00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:43.320
It's really good.

834
00:38:43.380 --> 00:38:44.219
That's the thing.

835
00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:44.940
He's so still.

836
00:38:45.059 --> 00:38:46.260
He doesn't raise his voice.

837
00:38:46.380 --> 00:38:50.280
It's just his tone that changes.

838
00:38:50.340 --> 00:38:53.760
And again, Anthony Angley doesn't rail against it.

839
00:38:53.820 --> 00:38:58.920
He just kind of quietly accepts that he does have to break his

840
00:38:58.920 --> 00:38:59.340
vow.

841
00:38:59.400 --> 00:39:02.460
And until this moment, everyone else has been breaking vows all

842
00:39:02.460 --> 00:39:05.699
around him, and he's trying to keep his honour, but he kind of

843
00:39:05.699 --> 00:39:10.320
comes to the realisation of, I have to give up this part of

844
00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:10.739
myself.

845
00:39:10.739 --> 00:39:13.440
And maybe that's foreshadowing. don't know.

846
00:39:13.500 --> 00:39:18.719
His terrible line is when he says we're so fortunate to have met

847
00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:22.139
you, doctor, at the end, which is just a hugely embarrassing line

848
00:39:22.139 --> 00:39:27.179
delivery, but it is foreshadowing what is just a scene like

849
00:39:27.179 --> 00:39:29.519
nothing that we've ever seen in Doctor Who before.

850
00:39:29.579 --> 00:39:33.239
So we have the standard, you know, thanks and goodbye.

851
00:39:33.300 --> 00:39:35.820
And there's a really nice moment in the TARDIS between the doctor

852
00:39:35.820 --> 00:39:39.719
and Adrik, which I just think is solidifying their relationship

853
00:39:39.719 --> 00:39:43.980
which I, again, I think, adds to my liking of Adrik throughout

854
00:39:43.980 --> 00:39:45.239
these 8 episodes.

855
00:39:45.300 --> 00:39:48.300
But then, well, we think the show's over.

856
00:39:48.480 --> 00:39:52.380
And we get a scene back in track and we're talking about cleaning

857
00:39:52.380 --> 00:39:53.579
up and all of that sort of thing.

858
00:39:53.639 --> 00:39:58.500
And at the very beginning of that scene, the grandfather clock is

859
00:39:58.500 --> 00:40:01.980
visible in the background, but not remarked upon, you actually see

860
00:40:01.980 --> 00:40:04.619
it, like at the very start of that shot.

861
00:40:04.679 --> 00:40:09.360
And then Trimis, you know, goes up and touches it and we get a new

862
00:40:09.360 --> 00:40:10.500
body at last and stuff.

863
00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:17.039
And then the TARNIS dematerialises, and Nissa walks into that

864
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:17.699
shop.

865
00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:19.079
There's no cut.

866
00:40:19.320 --> 00:40:24.000
So the shot from which her father has been abducted just seconds

867
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:27.659
before and turns around and farther where?

868
00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:28.079
are you?

869
00:40:28.139 --> 00:40:31.320
So it ends on a question, you know, it's obviously a kind of

870
00:40:31.320 --> 00:40:35.699
cliffhanger to lead us into next week. and the reintroduction of

871
00:40:35.699 --> 00:40:36.179
the master.

872
00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:38.099
But do you remember it at the time?

873
00:40:38.159 --> 00:40:40.860
I just sort of was so astounded by it.

874
00:40:40.920 --> 00:40:44.639
And I did think at the time, bringing the master back properly

875
00:40:44.639 --> 00:40:49.440
having an actor play him rather than him turning up every 5 years

876
00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:52.320
looking, you know, a bit gruesome.

877
00:40:52.380 --> 00:40:55.800
I thought it was a great idea, and certainly it's like, oh, my God

878
00:40:55.800 --> 00:40:56.699
what's going to happen now?

879
00:40:56.760 --> 00:40:58.500
I'm with you.

880
00:40:58.559 --> 00:41:01.199
Again, I didn't know anything about the deadly assassin.

881
00:41:01.260 --> 00:41:01.980
Right?

882
00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:06.000
So when the master turns up, it's like a big shock, you know?

883
00:41:06.059 --> 00:41:08.039
And they don't make a big deal about it.

884
00:41:08.099 --> 00:41:10.739
Like, it's not a big continuity thing.

885
00:41:10.800 --> 00:41:13.860
That's just how he looks. he's at the end of his life cycle, you

886
00:41:13.860 --> 00:41:13.980
know?

887
00:41:14.039 --> 00:41:21.900
And so because it's been so long, since Roger Delgado, in my head

888
00:41:21.900 --> 00:41:25.920
it's like this mythical character from the past, you know, is

889
00:41:25.920 --> 00:41:26.519
coming back.

890
00:41:26.579 --> 00:41:31.019
And so when he does that transformation, as a kid, I thought it

891
00:41:31.019 --> 00:41:32.460
was great, now I think it looks crummy.

892
00:41:32.519 --> 00:41:36.780
But the same look and everything, you know, it was sort of like, oh

893
00:41:36.780 --> 00:41:40.739
my goodness, this is just like, he doesn't look at the camera or

894
00:41:40.739 --> 00:41:40.980
anything.

895
00:41:41.099 --> 00:41:44.159
Like, you can barely see his new face, do you know what I mean?

896
00:41:44.219 --> 00:41:45.599
Like, there's that stupid transformation.

897
00:41:45.659 --> 00:41:49.860
And then he says the line, you know, a new body at last again, but

898
00:41:49.860 --> 00:41:52.679
with, like, he's back to the camera sort of thing.

899
00:41:52.739 --> 00:41:55.679
I think it's sort of hand-fistedly done, you do really want to see

900
00:41:55.679 --> 00:41:56.280
him properly.

901
00:41:56.340 --> 00:42:00.840
No, see, I think it's deliberate, and I think it's so clever

902
00:42:00.840 --> 00:42:05.400
because the master has spent the whole story using people and then

903
00:42:05.400 --> 00:42:09.000
using them to kill one another, to try and get this power, his

904
00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:10.619
plan is spoiled.

905
00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:11.519
Does he care?

906
00:42:11.579 --> 00:42:12.719
No, he's got a new body.

907
00:42:12.780 --> 00:42:14.099
He doesn't even care about you, the audience.

908
00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:17.639
He's just going to bugger off and cause mayhem elsewhere.

909
00:42:17.699 --> 00:42:21.719
I do think it's deliberate because John Black, as you say, Todd

910
00:42:21.719 --> 00:42:24.719
he's not the best director, but he is very stylish and he is very

911
00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:25.320
stylised.

912
00:42:25.380 --> 00:42:30.059
I think if he'd wanted that to be a big moment of him turning to

913
00:42:30.059 --> 00:42:32.219
the camera and saying, look at my new face, we would have had that

914
00:42:32.219 --> 00:42:32.519
moment.

915
00:42:32.579 --> 00:42:36.840
No, it's the master breaking the 4th wall in a very soft way and

916
00:42:36.840 --> 00:42:38.340
having complete disregard for the audience.

917
00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:39.420
Yeah, you want to see my face?

918
00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:40.440
Come back next week.

919
00:42:40.500 --> 00:42:43.019
And in fact, we don't see it next week.

920
00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:47.219
No, we just see him laughing and when we do finally see him on

921
00:42:47.219 --> 00:42:51.599
Legopolis, that is actually quite a good reveal and maybe it was

922
00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:52.139
worth waiting for.

923
00:42:52.260 --> 00:42:53.880
It's the homes again thing.

924
00:42:53.940 --> 00:42:55.260
They showing a bit of the monster at a time.

925
00:42:55.320 --> 00:42:55.619
Yeah.

926
00:42:55.679 --> 00:42:56.099
Yeah.

927
00:42:56.159 --> 00:42:57.119
You just getting flashes.

928
00:42:57.239 --> 00:43:01.559
No, I think it's a conscious goad of the audience.

929
00:43:01.619 --> 00:43:04.860
Well, I'm glad that we've turned Nathan around a bit on this story

930
00:43:04.860 --> 00:43:07.440
from what you were wanting to...

931
00:43:07.500 --> 00:43:08.639
I think there are flaws.

932
00:43:08.699 --> 00:43:10.860
I think there are problems with the performance and problems with

933
00:43:10.860 --> 00:43:15.179
the direction and I do think there's too many BBC beards and a

934
00:43:15.179 --> 00:43:17.639
little bit too much talk about the scien-y stuff.

935
00:43:17.699 --> 00:43:19.019
The moon's terrible.

936
00:43:19.079 --> 00:43:20.519
I like the moon.

937
00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:26.159
And I like the sky, but there's a lot going for this.

938
00:43:26.219 --> 00:43:29.579
There's just something about this that it is my favourite of the

939
00:43:29.579 --> 00:43:29.760
season.

940
00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:51.119
We, uh, take off from Tranken and not a moment too soon, but we

941
00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:54.840
will be back next week for a chain of events that fragment how the

942
00:43:54.840 --> 00:43:55.860
universe is held together.

943
00:43:55.980 --> 00:43:59.519
There is only one thing we can do to prevent this, gentlemen.

944
00:43:59.579 --> 00:44:03.719
I'm afraid that all four of us will need to be in full rapport

945
00:44:03.719 --> 00:44:04.559
with the podcast.

946
00:44:04.619 --> 00:44:07.860
Richard will be back next week as we talk about Legopolis.

947
00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:08.460
Until then.

948
00:44:08.579 --> 00:44:11.639
Please check us out online at FlightthroughEntirety.com, flight

949
00:44:11.639 --> 00:44:14.699
through entirety on Facebook and iTunes, FTE podcast on Twitter.

950
00:44:14.760 --> 00:44:18.059
Don't forget Bondfinger.com, Bondfingercast, on Twitter, and

951
00:44:18.059 --> 00:44:20.159
Bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes.

952
00:44:20.159 --> 00:44:23.099
Until then, may none of your honey have flies trapped in it.

953
00:44:23.159 --> 00:44:24.599
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

954
00:44:24.659 --> 00:44:25.440
Good night.

955
00:44:25.500 --> 00:44:26.159
See you soon.

956
00:44:32.280 --> 00:44:35.820
That was Fletcher Entirety with Todd BLB, Nathan Botterley and

957
00:44:35.820 --> 00:44:36.780
Brendan Jones.

958
00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:38.699
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

959
00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:42.239
This episode, Web of Nothing, was recorded on the 20th of March

960
00:44:42.239 --> 00:44:43.079
2016.

961
00:44:43.380 --> 00:44:46.679
The next episode will be released on May 22nd.

962
00:44:46.739 --> 00:44:50.699
If all the stars were silver and the sky, a giant purse in my hand

963
00:44:50.699 --> 00:44:53.760
I'd still discover that the day pole milk or action figure was

964
00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:54.420
really expensive.

965
00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:02.340
The keeper of Tracan.

966
00:45:02.460 --> 00:45:04.440
Sorry, 20th of March.

967
00:45:04.500 --> 00:45:07.440
That's tracking. tracking.

968
00:45:07.860 --> 00:45:13.019
Do you remember that in Gary Downey's Doctor Who cookbook?

969
00:45:13.260 --> 00:45:16.980
Johnny Burns recipe is the kipper of Tracon.

970
00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:17.940
Oh God.

971
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:22.079
There's even an illustration of a kipper in like in like truck and

972
00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:24.840
gowns in front of in front of the source cabinet.

973
00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:27.480
That's really, really sad.

974
00:45:28.139 --> 00:45:30.960
I love to have a doctor who cookbook.

975
00:45:31.019 --> 00:45:35.039
What culinary delights await you.

976
00:45:35.099 --> 00:45:39.780
Well, there's a profile on Jackie Lane, which explains she's

977
00:45:39.780 --> 00:45:43.260
actually Jocelyn Lane from New York, which is complete bollocks.

978
00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:46.019
He just couldn't find any autobiographical info, like she sent her

979
00:45:46.019 --> 00:45:49.320
a recipe to him, but she couldn't find any autobiographical

980
00:45:49.320 --> 00:45:50.219
information about her.

981
00:45:50.280 --> 00:45:51.539
So he's like, right, I'll make something up.

982
00:45:52.920 --> 00:45:56.400
Well, you could do that in 1918, whatever.

983
00:45:56.460 --> 00:46:01.139
And then, you know, Lala Ward's recipe is some is rabbit with

984
00:46:01.139 --> 00:46:03.360
streaky bacon.

985
00:46:03.420 --> 00:46:07.139
Freshly shot on the estate.

986
00:46:08.039 --> 00:46:14.820
Um, Fraser's recipe is some kind of soup with um, with um, darlic

987
00:46:14.820 --> 00:46:15.480
crotons.

988
00:46:15.539 --> 00:46:16.860
Brilliant.

989
00:46:17.400 --> 00:46:19.500
Garlic crudons.

990
00:46:21.780 --> 00:46:23.340
All right.

991
00:46:23.400 --> 00:46:24.659
Oh, that's right.

992
00:46:24.719 --> 00:46:26.579
Liz Sladon does cauliflower cheese.

993
00:46:26.639 --> 00:46:29.699
So it's the illustration is Sarah Jane sneaking up on a crinoid

994
00:46:29.699 --> 00:46:30.719
with the knife and the ball.

995
00:46:34.500 --> 00:46:36.840
It's really awful.

996
00:46:37.559 --> 00:46:39.719
It must be on eBay.

997
00:46:39.780 --> 00:46:40.440
I'm gonna buy it.

998
00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:44.280
Just wait for the clock again.

999
00:46:44.940 --> 00:46:47.760
I thought I'd stop to that clock.

1000
00:46:47.820 --> 00:46:49.619
Once again, we wait for roof bar.

1001
00:46:54.360 --> 00:46:58.380
You don't get this kind of excitement on 42 to doomsday, dear

1002
00:46:58.380 --> 00:46:58.800
listen.

1003
00:46:58.860 --> 00:46:59.639
I know, that's right.

1004
00:46:59.699 --> 00:47:01.199
Trust you, doctor.

1005
00:47:02.519 --> 00:47:03.780
20.

1006
00:47:04.139 --> 00:47:06.539
I know they're so young, aren't they?

1007
00:47:06.599 --> 00:47:06.960
It's crazy.

1008
00:47:07.019 --> 00:47:07.619
20.

1009
00:47:08.280 --> 00:47:09.719
Yep.

1010
00:47:09.780 --> 00:47:12.119
Keon turned 20 yesterday.

1011
00:47:12.179 --> 00:47:14.099
Or today his time.

1012
00:47:14.219 --> 00:47:15.840
You informed me of this fact.

1013
00:47:15.900 --> 00:47:18.480
I changed to blitering from my memory.

1014
00:47:18.539 --> 00:47:22.260
Keon doesn't know the struggle of his family wanting to watch

1015
00:47:22.260 --> 00:47:24.960
Adam's family values rather than the telly movie.

1016
00:47:25.019 --> 00:47:27.480
I've got shirts that old.